EPA Certification Data

Model34mePlease

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#41
One thing that I don't think has been commented on here is the M3LR seems to have front axle regenerative breaking. This is totally unexpected and HUGE. I think it is why the EPA M3 city miles are way MORE than the highway miles. It is the only Tesla that has this characteristic. Even though all current S/Xs have dual motor and have front axle regen, they measure fewer city miles than highway miles.

This car keeps getting better! :D
 

Mad Hungarian

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#42
One thing that I don't think has been commented on here is the M3LR seems to have front axle regenerative breaking. This is totally unexpected and HUGE. I think it is why the EPA M3 city miles are way MORE than the highway miles. It is the only Tesla that has this characteristic. Even though all current S/Xs have dual motor and have front axle regen, they measure fewer city miles than highway miles.

This car keeps getting better! :D
????
That's only possible if it has a front motor.
And I don't see anything on the doc that suggests they tested a Dual Motor variant. Or did I miss something?
As to why the M3 might be able to eek out more city miles compared to highway, that may be more a function of how much lighter it is compared to the S and X. Although the 3 offers both less weight and less aero drag compared to an S, if the weight improvement is comparatively better than the aero improvement then we should see a disproportionately better improvement in city range. Of course there may also be all sorts of other efficiency improvements in the drivetrain and electronics that help as well. I'll let the AC/DC experts chime in on that part...
 

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#43
To save time, they may have tested an engineering sample of the dual motor version, even though that's not what they are shipping right now. I kinda remember that they were giving rides at the original reveal in dual motor versions...
 

garsh

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#45
Here's where the speculation of front axle regen comes from:
Model 3 paperwork
Oh, weird. I would guess that this is most likely a typo.
That last line specifically says that this is the RWD car.
But... now I'm having visions of the "dual motor" option being software-unlockable.
:p
 

Model34mePlease

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#47
I may have gone off a little quick. It certainly would be possible to have a small generator up front, well short of AWD, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence beyond that one item in the EPA report. Since all other Teslas have AWD and regeneration on all wheels, it may well be a cut and paste error. Anyway, it is remarkable how much better the EPA City millage is then the Highway and the 3 does seem to be the only Tesla that has this, and I'm sure there probably is an interesting explanation.
 

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#49
If the info is correct, they were probably testing a dual-motor variant, not the one shipping now.
 

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#50
The reveal Alphas were dual motor according to one of that nights test drive videos. Possibly one of those was used.
 

garsh

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#52
no other Tesla has better City than Highway.
I'm guessing that's because the "steady-state" battery drain for a Model S (and X) is pretty high compared to all other electric vehicles. It would appear that Tesla has fixed that minor flaw for the Model 3.
 

Model34mePlease

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#53
I'm guessing that's because the "steady-state" battery drain for a Model S (and X) is pretty high compared to all other electric vehicles. It would appear that Tesla has fixed that minor flaw for the Model 3.
I wouldn't think that would show up on an EPA dynamometer test. I doubt it is of long duration.
 

Mad Hungarian

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#54
Pretty much every electric car gets better mileage in the city cycle than the highway cycle.

Oh yes, I realize this is true of most of them just from the short time I've had my Volt. However @model34me was saying that the Model 3 had significantly higher city numbers and the S and X had higher highway numbers so I was trying to work out why that might be.
 

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#55
????
That's only possible if it has a front motor.
And I don't see anything on the doc that suggests they tested a Dual Motor variant. Or did I miss something?
As to why the M3 might be able to eek out more city miles compared to highway, that may be more a function of how much lighter it is compared to the S and X. Although the 3 offers both less weight and less aero drag compared to an S, if the weight improvement is comparatively better than the aero improvement then we should see a disproportionately better improvement in city range. Of course there may also be all sorts of other efficiency improvements in the drivetrain and electronics that help as well. I'll let the AC/DC experts chime in on that part...
I don't think there is any drive shaft or motor up front, probably just a typo on the forms. See the image below. 20621766_10214309101347767_4463722673568493423_n.jpg
 

John

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#56
I don't think there is any drive shaft or motor up front, probably just a typo on the forms. See the image below. View attachment 2782
Assuming that was the same as the model used for EPA testing. The "RWD" and regeneration= "both" parts of the results don't really jibe. Unless for some crazy reason the RWD testing models had a front motor used only for regen, but that's crazy, because it's all of the cost and only part of the benefit (same motors, same electronics as dual drive).
 

Thomas Mikl

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#57
You do not need a motor or big generator for regen breaking as the system would never be used to drive the car. They use such tech for busses for over 20 years (but waste the energy mostly). In theory you could make this as small and integrate it in the breaking calipers (which they wont do, as that would make replacement a pain). All you need is a small permanent magnet and an induction coil, it even does not need to wrap around the whole axle. Of course efficiency would suffer a bit, but if you do it in a good way, it might not be much and the benefit could still be high.
 

garsh

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#58
Good points, @Thomas Mikl . From a manufacturing perspective, I wouldn't think that Tesla would bother developing that system. It's not applicable to the dual-motor variant, since that car has a front motor to perform the same task. And it would add complexity to the RWD version. Furthermore, some of the test-ride reviews from the delivery day commented on the regen braking not being as strong as on the S. Perhaps that was due to a low setting.

But it would explain that EPA certification! I hope you're right - that would make me feel even better about getting a RWD model.
 

garsh

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#59
I'm trying to better understand these documents. I managed to track down what UDDS stands for - Urban Dynamometer Driving Schedule (aka "the city test").
https://www.epa.gov/vehicle-and-fuel-emissions-testing/dynamometer-drive-schedules

For electric cars, the test procedure is to run each of the highway & city tests in succession until the battery completely runs out. The results are then multiplied by 0.7 to come up with the numbers on the sticker.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/EPA test procedure for EVs-PHEVs-7-5-2012.pdf

So, given the certification report for the Long Range Model 3, I would expect to see:
City Range = 495.04 * .7 = 347 miles
Highway Range =
454.64 * .7 = 318 miles

Holy Crap!!! The Standard Battery might end up beating the Bolt's EPA range after all! :)
 
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MelindaV

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#60
I'm guessing that's because the "steady-state" battery drain for a Model S (and X) is pretty high compared to all other electric vehicles. It would appear that Tesla has fixed that minor flaw for the Model 3.
there's comments also that the new magnet style motor is more efficient at the lower speed stop/start vs the induction better at highway speed travel (or did I flip the two? totally second guessing my memory now....)