EPA Certification Data

Model34mePlease

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#21
The ever analytical Troy has posted a summation here on TMC. Seems the usable battery is around 78.3 kWh and the pack is a few kWh larger at 80.5 kWh... and larger than the S75*!

"1. The Model 3 large battery is 80 kWh. To be precise, the actual capacity is 80.5 kWh based on this calculation:

Total pack capacity = 350 V * 230 Ah= 80,500 Wh = 80.5 kWh

Total Voltage of Battery Packs: 350 Volt (source is page 3 here)

Battery Energy Capacity: 230 Ah (source is page 3 here)

The document doesn't say that 230 is 230 Ah, however, I found another example here from another car that shows the unit for "Battery Energy Capacity" is Ah.

2. Model 3 LR usable capacity is more than Model S 85/85D/P85D.

Usable capacity is 78.3 kWh (source: page 6 footer). This is more than the usable capacity of the Model S 85, 85D, P85D. Those have 77.5 kWh usable capacity (source). At that time Tesla was over advertising battery pack sizes. This problem only affected the 85 and 90 kWh packs. Both of these packs have less than advertised capacity. Tesla later corrected this problem with the 75 and 100 kWh packs.

Tesla doesn't want to remind people that the Model 3 LR has more battery capacity than the 75 and 85 kWh Model S versions. That seems to be the reason why they are not using the Model 3 80/80D/P80D name scheme anymore. However, I don't know how this will work because Model 3 LR or Model 3 Standard will be very confusing when they upgrade the battery sizes."

* Recent interweb posting included a picture of a new S75 car with a battery label indicating an 85kWh pack.
That makes sense. I noticed that the charging efficiency for the M3LR was pretty bad if the battery pack is 70kWh or 75kWh. The EPA recharge was about 89.4kWh. By comparison, all the S models lose only between 7% and 13% from their named capacity (i.e. 90kWh for a P90D).
 

EValuatED

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#22
Wait a minute.... was I correct???
The ever analytical Troy has posted a summation here on TMC. Seems the usable battery is around 78.3 kWh and the pack is a few kWh larger at 80.5 kWh... and larger than the S75*!

"1. The Model 3 large battery is 80 kWh. To be precise, the actual capacity is 80.5 kWh based on this calculation:

Total pack capacity = 350 V * 230 Ah= 80,500 Wh = 80.5 kWh

Total Voltage of Battery Packs: 350 Volt (source is page 3 here)

Battery Energy Capacity: 230 Ah (source is page 3 here)

The document doesn't say that 230 is 230 Ah, however, I found another example here from another car that shows the unit for "Battery Energy Capacity" is Ah.

2. Model 3 LR usable capacity is more than Model S 85/85D/P85D.

Usable capacity is 78.3 kWh (source: page 6 footer). This is more than the usable capacity of the Model S 85, 85D, P85D. Those have 77.5 kWh usable capacity (source). At that time Tesla was over advertising battery pack sizes. This problem only affected the 85 and 90 kWh packs. Both of these packs have less than advertised capacity. Tesla later corrected this problem with the 75 and 100 kWh packs.

Tesla doesn't want to remind people that the Model 3 LR has more battery capacity than the 75 and 85 kWh Model S versions. That seems to be the reason why they are not using the Model 3 80/80D/P80D name scheme anymore. However, I don't know how this will work because Model 3 LR or Model 3 Standard will be very confusing when they upgrade the battery sizes."

* Recent interweb posting included a picture of a new S75 car with a battery label indicating an 85kWh pack.
But most importantly @garsh was (basically) RIGHT! :D
 

EValuatED

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#25
I have a feeling that as soon as Elon thinks M3 production is out of hell, the S & X are going to get a big battery pack upgrade based on the new cells he is using in the M3
One of the stats refers to energy needed to fully charge which includes losses, so is a higher kWh than the calculated pack size. But agree, SME validation would be great!

That said, it looks promising for a great range performance and kWh per mile performance by our future M3!
 

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#27
Anyone else a little disappointed that the motor is only rated 258hp vs 375-400hp of the S/X?

I was surprised to see permanent magnet at first, but I think it does make sense. The material might be slightly rarer, but cost of copper is very high, so it is probably still cheaper than the cost of the copper windings they replace in the rotor. Furthermore it makes a significantly simpler motor to assemble, replacing lots of windings with chunks of magnets. @John 's article above also states they are more efficient as well due to less efficiency loss from windings.
Also, the inverter electronics would also be much simpler, as they only need 3 phase AC for the stator and not an additional 3 phases for the rotor.
Down side is that you can't control and vary the magnetic charge of the rotor, which allows for some 3D torque curve maps and electromagnetic trickery.
The biggest point is that the permanent magnet is simpler and that's what everything needs to be to make the Model 3 mass producible.
 

garsh

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#29

EValuatED

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#33
Actually no. If the torque is there, that's what counts.
From the Motor Trend article: 235-hp/317-ft-lb rear (MT est)

Based on weight and performance, presumably.

Edit: So the actual torque may be higher. And managed. (Otherwise you could explode the LRR tires in a car well under 4K lbs where max torque comes on so fast.)
 
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TrevP

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#35
The ever analytical Troy has posted a summation here on TMC. Seems the usable battery is around 78.3 kWh and the pack is a few kWh larger at 80.5 kWh... and larger than the S75*!

"1. The Model 3 large battery is 80 kWh. To be precise, the actual capacity is 80.5 kWh based on this calculation:

Total pack capacity = 350 V * 230 Ah= 80,500 Wh = 80.5 kWh

Total Voltage of Battery Packs: 350 Volt (source is page 3 here)

Battery Energy Capacity: 230 Ah (source is page 3 here)

The document doesn't say that 230 is 230 Ah, however, I found another example here from another car that shows the unit for "Battery Energy Capacity" is Ah.

2. Model 3 LR usable capacity is more than Model S 85/85D/P85D.

Usable capacity is 78.3 kWh (source: page 6 footer). This is more than the usable capacity of the Model S 85, 85D, P85D. Those have 77.5 kWh usable capacity (source). At that time Tesla was over advertising battery pack sizes. This problem only affected the 85 and 90 kWh packs. Both of these packs have less than advertised capacity. Tesla later corrected this problem with the 75 and 100 kWh packs.

Tesla doesn't want to remind people that the Model 3 LR has more battery capacity than the 75 and 85 kWh Model S versions. That seems to be the reason why they are not using the Model 3 80/80D/P80D name scheme anymore. However, I don't know how this will work because Model 3 LR or Model 3 Standard will be very confusing when they upgrade the battery sizes."

* Recent interweb posting included a picture of a new S75 car with a battery label indicating an 85kWh pack.
If the new Model S 75D that have the upgraded performance will indeed come with software locked 85kWh pack then I'll be super excited if we jump into one early next year. The possibility of a future unlock is nice but more importantly being able to charge to 100% at the same constant rate is really welcome for longer trips. Makes the slightly more frequent SC stops shorter!! Fingers crossed
 

JWardell

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#36

Brokedoc

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#37
I wonder if a variation of the new model 3 motors are used in the newer Model S/X to account for the improved performance numbers? Elon said the performance boost in MS/MX was attributable to both hardware and software updates.

An interesting thing I just saw when I was looking at the new MS configurator is that the S75 and S75D no longer have a large performance gap. 4.3sec vs 4.2sec in 0-60 times. If this holds true for M3 also, we won't get a huge performance boost and may make a difference for those deciding to hold out for the dual motor M3.
 
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#38
comparing to the Model S 75, the battery calculates down to a 70kWh.
@Sandy - agree, thought induction was Tesla's 'thing' and would always go with that over the permanent magnet style.
other figures in the test report suggest 78.27 kWh battery. The pack has a low 150 Wh/kg. Lower than the 170 Wh for the MS/MX. New cells must be NMC not the usual NCA. Motor is more efficient, but the battery is heavier than we expected. battery may weigh 522 kg - leaving the rest of the car to weigh 1219 kg. Elon is very proud of the vehicle weight - know we know what he is was up against. Change of chemistry appears to have added 61 kg to large battery and 41 kg to standard battery. NMC chemistry is more robust against high charge/discharge and number of charging cycles. It is also cheaper with good prospects for further cost reduction.
 

Model34mePlease

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#39
other figures in the test report suggest 78.27 kWh battery. The pack has a low 150 Wh/kg. Lower than the 170 Wh for the MS/MX. New cells must be NMC not the usual NCA. Motor is more efficient, but the battery is heavier than we expected. battery may weigh 522 kg - leaving the rest of the car to weigh 1219 kg. Elon is very proud of the vehicle weight - know we know what he is was up against. Change of chemistry appears to have added 61 kg to large battery and 41 kg to standard battery. NMC chemistry is more robust against high charge/discharge and number of charging cycles. It is also cheaper with good prospects for further cost reduction.
What is your calculation that gives that number, and is that 78.27 usable capacity?
 

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#40
Very cool! Rumored for a long time. And by cooI mean it. Motor runs cooler. Still 3 phase AC just using magnets instead of windings. Probably cheaper to produce as well.
The magnets go on the rotor, it still has windings in the stator.