Electric Vehicles are BETTER than ICE Vehicles, So There!

ReD eXiLe

Active Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2017
Messages
159
Location
Mississippi
Country
Country
#1
Someone in the Tesla forums posted something that rather got on my nerves.


It poses the sort of straw man argument that truly [PEEVES] me, to say the least. So, naturally, when someone posted in the affirmative of the notion, I responded in my typical fashion. :D

andy.connor.e stated incorrectly, "Electric cars are not any better than gasoline cars, if the electricity used to charge the car is generated from coal burning plants."

Fully electric cars are pretty much ALWAYS better than gasoline burning cars in terms of energy efficiency and emissions even if the electricity that drives them is supplied by coal burning power plants.

The average new vehicle in the U.S. outputs 430 grams of Carbon Dioxide per mile. The highest fuel economy ICE vehicles in the U.S., as shown below, may reduce that to around ~307 grams per mile. The worst fully electric car listed below achieves 300 grams per mile, in one of the dirtiest locations in the U.S. for electric power generation -- Jefferson City MO 65111 -- but achieves an average of only 200 grams per mile throughout the U.S. The best fully electric car, even including upstream green house gases from coal energy production in Missouri, yields 220 grams per mile there, and 150 grams per mile throughout the rest of the nation.

Greenhouse Gas Emissions
Grams per mile (Tailpipe & Upstream GHG)
__0 + 220 = 220 ___ Hyundai Ioniq Electric
__0 + 260 = 260 ___ Fiat 500e
__0 + 270 = 270 ___ Ford Focus Electric
__0 + 300 = 300 ___ Tesla Model S 75

247 + _49 = 296 ___ Honda Fit
256 + _49 = 305 ___ Hyundai Elantra
263 + _51 = 314 ___ Toyota Corolla LE Eco
264 + _50 = 314 ___ Fiat 500

You don't have to believe me, but it's true. See for yourself by following the links below. Then stop repeating that garbage argument that is used by electric vehicle naysayers, please.

Hyundai Ionic Electric, Fiat 500e, Ford Focus Electric, Tesla Model S 75
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=38431&id=37798&id=38505&id=38558#tab2

Honda Fit, Hyundai Elantra, Toyota Corolla LE Eco, Fiat 500
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=37637&id=37384&id=38155&id=37808&#tab2


In case you doubt my numbers, here's where you can see the EPA's calculations for Greenhouse Gas Emissions for these electric vehicles. You can change the Zip Code to your own locality for comparison if you want:

Hyundai Ioniq Electric
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?zipCode=60111&year=2017&vehicleId=38431&action=bt3

Fiat 500e
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?zipCode=60111&year=2017&vehicleId=37798&action=bt3

Ford Focus Electric
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?zipCode=60111&year=2017&vehicleId=38505&action=bt3

Tesla Model S 75
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?zipCode=60111&year=2017&vehicleId=38558&action=bt3
 

ReD eXiLe

Active Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2017
Messages
159
Location
Mississippi
Country
Country
#3
That's too technical of a rebuttal. I prefer my way:

I use technical rebuttals in order to combat psuedo-science. When people post 'facts' that are full of 'truthiness' in a place where they might be accepted by those not in the know -- I see no other recourse. Two things I learned early in life, people who quote things that 'everybody knows' almost certainly reply with, "Yeah? Well how do YOU know?!?" type queries. It is always best to be prepared to educate those who think they know what they are talking about, because a lot of the time, they don't.
 

Badback

Valued Community Member
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2016
Messages
1,111
Location
Prior Lake, MN
Tesla Owner
Reservation
Country
Country
#4
Someone in the Tesla forums posted something that rather got on my nerves.


It poses the sort of straw man argument that truly [PEEVES] me, to say the least. So, naturally, when someone posted in the affirmative of the notion, I responded in my typical fashion. :D

andy.connor.e stated incorrectly, "Electric cars are not any better than gasoline cars, if the electricity used to charge the car is generated from coal burning plants."

Fully electric cars are pretty much ALWAYS better than gasoline burning cars in terms of energy efficiency and emissions even if the electricity that drives them is supplied by coal burning power plants.

The average new vehicle in the U.S. outputs 430 grams of Carbon Dioxide per mile. The highest fuel economy ICE vehicles in the U.S., as shown below, may reduce that to around ~307 grams per mile. The worst fully electric car listed below achieves 300 grams per mile, in one of the dirtiest locations in the U.S. for electric power generation -- Jefferson City MO 65111 -- but achieves an average of only 200 grams per mile throughout the U.S. The best fully electric car, even including upstream green house gases from coal energy production in Missouri, yields 220 grams per mile there, and 150 grams per mile throughout the rest of the nation.

Greenhouse Gas Emissions
Grams per mile (Tailpipe & Upstream GHG)
__0 + 220 = 220 ___ Hyundai Ioniq Electric
__0 + 260 = 260 ___ Fiat 500e
__0 + 270 = 270 ___ Ford Focus Electric
__0 + 300 = 300 ___ Tesla Model S 75

247 + _49 = 296 ___ Honda Fit
256 + _49 = 305 ___ Hyundai Elantra
263 + _51 = 314 ___ Toyota Corolla LE Eco
264 + _50 = 314 ___ Fiat 500
You don't have to believe me, but it's true. See for yourself by following the links below. Then stop repeating that garbage argument that is used by electric vehicle naysayers, please.

Hyundai Ionic Electric, Fiat 500e, Ford Focus Electric, Tesla Model S 75
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=38431&id=37798&id=38505&id=38558#tab2

Honda Fit, Hyundai Elantra, Toyota Corolla LE Eco, Fiat 500
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=37637&id=37384&id=38155&id=37808&#tab2


In case you doubt my numbers, here's where you can see the EPA's calculations for Greenhouse Gas Emissions for these electric vehicles. You can change the Zip Code to your own locality for comparison if you want:

Hyundai Ioniq Electric
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?zipCode=60111&year=2017&vehicleId=38431&action=bt3

Fiat 500e
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?zipCode=60111&year=2017&vehicleId=37798&action=bt3

Ford Focus Electric
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?zipCode=60111&year=2017&vehicleId=38505&action=bt3

Tesla Model S 75
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?zipCode=60111&year=2017&vehicleId=38558&action=bt3
Also, let's not forget the amount of coal burned to make the electricity to make the gasoline. Refining is very electricity intensive.