Curious About Driving Power Consumption

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mkg3

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#1
Just this morning (ambient temperature around 68F at near sea level altitude) a 116 mile loop.

The TM3 RWD consumed 50% battery power available. Extrapolates to roughly 232 miles/100% charge - so much for 310 mile range.

Driving speed was averaging 80~85mph, AC on at 65F almost entirely on freeway (had to drive onto and off the freeway).

For those of you that usually drive at these speeds, is this about par? I understand why it consumes more power to go faster.

Not a concern at all. I have never seen a specific (meaning for TM3) chart showing speed vs range. There are generic charts about the power consumption vs range.

Just curious about what the vehicle is doing....
 

ravisorg

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#2
Driving speed was averaging 80~85mph
That’s almost certainly your answer. Efficiency decreases dramatically with speed as wind resistance gets far higher. You should easily get 310 at 60mph. If you drive at 80-85 there’s no way you’re going to get that range.

Same thing happens to ice vehicles, btw.
 

mkg3

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#3
Thanks. Like I'd mentioned, I know why (I'm an aero engineer) its less too.

The question is just how much less. Again, never have seen speed vs range chart specifically for TM3.

While drag force behaves like velocity squared, one can linearly extrapolate 310/65mph and 232/82mph and get a slope for quick and dirty approximation. Since there are other factors that goes into it like the magnitude of rolling resistance, power consumption increase due to higher RPM and so on, linear slope would be an approximation at best.

I was just curious if 232mile-ish range is typical for around 80~85 mph driving.....
 

NR4P

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#4
Monitor your wh/mile on the odometers. Some of the best out there are at high altitudes of 7K feet or more, in the 226wh/mi range. They are seeing 330 miles plus.

Newer tires and 19" tend to be less. AC does decrease battery range too.

I find 45-55mph with AC approaches the 310 mile range, at sea level.

Toyota/Lexus does have some nice graphs on their hybrids to show consumption as you drive. Maybe Tesla will add that someday.
 

ravisorg

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#5
Thanks. Like I'd mentioned, I know why (I'm an aero engineer) its less too.

The question is just how much less. Again, never have seen speed vs range chart specifically for TM3.

While drag force behaves like velocity squared, one can linearly extrapolate 310/65mph and 232/82mph and get a slope for quick and dirty approximation. Since there are other factors that goes into it like the magnitude of rolling resistance, power consumption increase due to higher RPM and so on, linear slope would be an approximation at best.

I was just curious if 232mile-ish range is typical for around 80~85 mph driving.....
Ok yeah that I’d be interested in too! :)
 

littlD

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#6
Ok yeah that I’d be interested in too! :)
Try out Teslafi.com. You get some great details added on trips, like elevation, etc, along with a battery health graph and knowing when new versions start showing up.
 

KarenRei

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#8
Thanks. Like I'd mentioned, I know why (I'm an aero engineer) its less too.

The question is just how much less. Again, never have seen speed vs range chart specifically for TM3.

While drag force behaves like velocity squared, one can linearly extrapolate 310/65mph and 232/82mph and get a slope for quick and dirty approximation. Since there are other factors that goes into it like the magnitude of rolling resistance, power consumption increase due to higher RPM and so on, linear slope would be an approximation at best.

I was just curious if 232mile-ish range is typical for around 80~85 mph driving.....
How can you ask this question with at least telling us your wheel config? You do realize that what wheels and tires you run on make a big difference, right? Why do people always do this - do they think it doesn't matter?

That said, if you want to blend all wheel configs together, and make no account for variations in (summer) windspeed, wind direction, cornering, accel/decel losses, temperature, road wetness, payload, etc, etc....



For someone riding on aero wheels, no cargo, great weather conditions.... more range.
For someone riding on non-aero wheels (esp. 20s), lots of cargo, poor weather conditions, awd.... less range.

To get a sense of "average real world conditions" vs. "hypermiling conditions", note the range at 30-40 mph (no more than ~420mi) and compare that to the achieved 600+ miles hypermiling range.

The fact that the "average" driver, in real-world conditions, all variants mixed together, gets 310 miles range at around 71 mph IMHO makes Tesla's stated range for the Model 3 a very fair description. More fair than most EVs claimed ranges, which are just combined cycle ranges. I think it's grossly unfair of you to be coming here and being all snarky like "so much for 310 mile range" when you're out there speeding. Guess what? Take it out on the track and it'll get even less range.

(In case you're curious, this data comes from people driving while logged into ABRP, so their vehicle data could be polled via the API. The data was all collected this summer)
 
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tivoboy

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#9
I tend to look at it a different way, and i'm hoping that the current wh/mile gauges are accurate. When I'm driving 68-70/2 on pretty flat roads, resetting the trip meter, I get readings that indicate I'm using 200-210 wh/mile. That's about ~10% better than 250 wh/mile and would indicate something OVER 300 miles per 75kw pack. (we'll never be able to use the whole pack mind you).

Of course UP in speed or UP in elevation would increase wh/mile but I've found that DOWN in speed and DOWN in elevation do add significantly to reducing wh/mile.

Yes, SPEED kills efficiency and while it's certainly not linear and will tend to flatten as speed increases, anything reasonable above 62 is probably going to put a 15-20% damper on overall expected range.
 

mkg3

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#10
How can you ask this question with at least telling us your wheel config? You do realize that what wheels and tires you run on make a big difference, right? Why do people always do this - do they think it doesn't matter?..............

The fact that the "average" driver, in real-world conditions, all variants mixed together, gets 310 miles range at around 71 mph IMHO makes Tesla's stated range for the Model 3 a very fair description. More fair than most EVs claimed ranges, which are just combined cycle ranges. I think it's grossly unfair of you to be coming here and being all snarky like "so much for 310 mile range" when you're out there speeding. Guess what? Take it out on the track and it'll get even less range.
So called average driver in real world conditions do vary. Its quite different in Southern California versus much of USA, let alone somewhere in Europe or Asia.

Yes wheel/tire combination matters, along with tire pressure and road topology. In my case its 19" running at 42psi/290 KPa. Clearly no aero wheel covers.

The chart you've provided shows at 80mph, the range is near 265~270 miles. I have never seen this or chart like it before specifically for Testa vehicles - thanks.

That said, my experience is about 30 miles less or bit more than 10% difference than the chart shows. Of course there isn't enough info like was AC/heater running, was it done in closed circuit test condition or what.

As for the first chart, there is not enough information to make it meaningful by itself. I get the its kw vs m/s at a constant speed but need to know what type of motor, the weight its moving, or current used at what voltage and so on. At the very least, is it all TM3 and the only difference are the wheel selection or blend of Tesla vehicles.

Last, as for getting a worse range on a race track, of course. Its a silly point to make when my original post clearly indicated that it was almost entirely freeway driving at a mostly at 80-85 mph.

Btw, Snarky??? Really??? Clearly you didn't read the rest of my original post and never got past the emotional spike. I made it clear that I wasn't bother by it. Just curious what others are getting who drives in similar conditions.
 

ADK46

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#11
See if the calculator I’m developing is useful, or will be useful when complete (wheel choices not yet implemented). Move the slider around and see what happens to “mileage” and range.

I’ll have to check on how well it matches the curves you show here, Karen. Those are fitted curves to crowd-sourced data? What’s ABRP?

Http://bikecalculator.com/tesla/

There’s a thread nearby about it.
 

KarenRei

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#12
In my case its 19" running at 42psi/290 KPa. Clearly no aero wheel covers.
So you're speeding and running on non-aero tires and complaining about range.
Pray tell, what exactly did you expect?

Of course there isn't enough info like was AC/heater running, was it done in closed circuit test condition or what.
That's normal people in normal driving. A mix of all the different ways different people drive.

The chart you've provided shows at 80mph, the range is near 265~270 miles
And around 85mph, around 240 miles range.

You chose a known less efficient config for your vehicle, so you're below the average. Caveat emptor.

As for the first chart, there is not enough information to make it meaningful by itself. I get the its kw vs m/s at a constant speed but need to know what type of motor, the weight its moving, or current used at what voltage and so on.
Why would you need to know that? Ignoring that Wh/mi can be derived from speed (m/s, which can be converted to mi/hr) and kW, which can be converted to W. W / (mi/hr) = Wh/mi. And I already gave you the chart that does precisely that conversion.

Btw, Snarky??? Really???
Yes, really. Nothing you wrote later changed that remark.
 
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KarenRei

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#13
A Better Route Planner, one of the more popular Tesla range calculators (note: their defaults are (purposefully) conservative). They not only do data collection from Tesla owners who choose to contribute, but they've started with Bolts too, and are looking to do other EVs as well. It's easiest for Teslas, though, due to the API. Both driving and charging data are collected:



Note that the bottom of that curve is fictional, as they haven't actually had anyone charge at 10% or lower, and not many datapoints under 15% ;)
 
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