Confirmed: Performance Red Brakes DO NOT fit 18" aero wheels

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#1
According to my "inside sales advisor" (and his supervisor) the 5000 performance upgrade package does have upgraded brake calipers. Those calipers do not fit the 18" aero rims. No mention of the rotors.

"Checking in regarding the Model 3 Performance package!

I had the chance to confirm with my supervisor that the brake calipers are upgraded with the $5,000 performance upgrade package.

He also confirmed that the 18” Aero Wheels cannot fit with the upgraded brake calipers. If you wish to purchase a set of wheels with winter tires, the 19” Sport Wheels will fit. I really appreciate your patience while I received confirmation."
 
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18259

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#3
Also this 5k package will have the larger upgraded rotors according to my ISA whom related that only certain ISAs will be handling the Performance models.
 

UncleT

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#5
Then why was it possible to order the performance version with 18" wheels when it first became available? In my experience, most Tesla employees usually know less than we do.
 

psohl14

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#6
Probably be cause when they first opened the configurator for the Performance car there weren’t enhanced calipers. Early on Elon made comments saying that adding things like the performance pedals and the red brake calipers would add too much complexity, and therefore they wouldn’t come with the car.

It’s possible that once it was obvious that there was sufficient demand for them, they retooled the performance model a bit to account for the new “Performance package” option they added
 

garsh

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#7
Then why was it possible to order the performance version with 18" wheels when it first became available?
When Performance was first available, there was no mention of upgraded brakes. It *could* be that they've added that later.
In my experience, most Tesla employees usually know less than we do.
True. I'm holding onto that hope. But if it turns out to be true, then I guess I'll have a nice complete set of Aeros for sale. :)
 

Teslar

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#8
just to clear
paying $5k = better brakes
not paying = same brakes as RWD ?
 

Little1er

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#9
I have a feeling that the 5K package will have better brakes than the "Base" P-model.

My guess:
AWD - Same brakes as RWD
P-Model - RWD/AWD M3 calipers, larger 355 smooth rotors
P+P Model - MS calipers, 355 larger rotors
 

JeffC

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#11
I got different information from Tire Rack. See: https://teslaownersonline.com/threads/wheel-and-tire-tech.5626/page-4#post-122892

Could refer to the non-red calipers, but the rotor matters a lot more than the calipers.

I actually consider Tire Rack to be more authoritative than random Tesla showroom folks, though I love them all very much. Tire Rack is one of the largest wheel and tire sellers in the world; they work very closely with manufacturers, and they cater to racers for whom the exact details matter a lot.

Also, for anyone who doesn't know, unless you are on a race track, you will not need or notice the brake upgrade. It matters ONLY on a race track. The larger rotors provide more thermal mass and better heat dissipation for greater resistance to brake fade, but ONLY for quickly repeated, high power braking on a race track. You generally don't need them on the Autobahn. You don't need them for American roads.
 
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garsh

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#12
I've updated the title to start with "Unconfirmed".

We've had too many instances of various Tesla employees providing incorrect information. Once I (or someone else) gets their hands on an actual Performance car, we'll confirm this one way or the other.
 
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#13
I've updated the title to start with "Unconfirmed".

We've had too many instances of various Tesla employees providing incorrect information. Once I (or someone else) gets their hands on an actual Performance car, we'll confirm this one way or the other.
I'll hope so! It wouldn't surprise me if specifically the aero's don't fit the bigger calipers (i imagine the rim is deeper set into the car to have the hubcap detachable) but that other 18" tires might fit
 

JeffC

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#14
The Aero wheel covers are about an inch thick. Shouldn't make much difference to the dimensions of the wheel underneath.

It's very possible that the larger rotor of the Performance Model does fit the Aeros, and that the "performance caliper" upgrade is the standard caliper in red color.

All will be revealed soon, as Performance Model 3s start to get delivered.


(Please note: above I earlier wrote "larger caliper"; that should have read "larger rotor". I have corrected it. So far all evidence is that there is a larger rotor for the Performance Model 3, but possibly not a larger caliper for the Performance Upgrade option on top of Performance Model 3.)
 
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Mad Hungarian

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#15
Not exactly definitive in scope, but at least we now know that the larger brakes only come with the Upgrade package:
 

JeffC

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#16
Not exactly definitive in scope, but at least we now know that the larger brakes only come with the Upgrade package:
Indeed. Still unclear. Which upgrade package? Performance Model 3 or Performance Upgrade option? Either could be considered an upgrade. The former may be less ambiguous since the lower suspension probably comes with the more powerful drivetrain. Kind of surprised at only a 1 cm drop, but on the other hand, more wheel travel is generally better for real world roads.

I get a strong sense they're trying to drive people to the $5k option. I sure as heck would if I were a manufacturer. However some better transparency about exactly what's specified in the different configurations would be helpful as a consumer.

Until then we get to have religious-like debates about interpreting the tweets. ;)
 

Mad Hungarian

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#17
Indeed. Still unclear. Which upgrade package? Performance Model 3 or Performance Upgrade option? Either could be considered an upgrade. The former may be less ambiguous since the lower suspension probably comes with the more powerful drivetrain. Kind of surprised at only a 1 cm drop, but on the other hand, more wheel travel is generally better for real world roads.

I get a strong sense they're trying to drive people to the $5k option. I sure as heck would if I were a manufacturer. However some better transparency about exactly what's specified in the different configurations would be helpful as a consumer.

Until then we get to have religious-like debates about interpreting the tweets. ;)
Yeah, after a couple of coffees I'm still trying to debate what the "stronger brakes" means. I first jumped to conclude only Upgrade gets the larger 355mm rotors, but it could also be that all Performace cars get the 355mm rotors but Upgrade also gets bigger calipers. I'd really love to know why this is still cryptic.
 
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JeffC

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#18
Yeah, after a couple of coffees I'm still trying to debate what the "stronger brakes" means. I first jumped to conclude only Upgrade gets the larger 355mm rotors, but it could also be that all Perfromace cars get the 355mm rotors but Upgrade also gets bigger calipers. I'd really love to know why this is still cryptic.
Could be they're honestly still working out the details, but given that they have 100 Performance cars to ship soon, it should be firming up.

His referent is unclear. The stronger brakes still could refer to larger rotors in all Performance Model 3s. I still think that's most likely, along with red colored calipers in the Performance Upgrade option, with the mechanically same, special, low drag caliper across all Model 3s. Sasha's experience showed the standard caliper worked fine on the track with a larger rotor. And we think a previously referenced 355 mm rotor has a good chance of fitting the Aeros.

Too many unknowns right now, but that's my estimate given the limited information. I also think the above would work well both in terms of performance and also manufacturing logistics. It would be a fine starting point along with DIY racier pads and high temp brake fluid change for track use.

Even without those changes, the brakes would be a lot more durable on the race track than the smaller rotor. A mild racing pad would be the next logical step, followed by fluid as a next step.

Mostly I care because it affects whether I get the $5k Performance Upgrade option from Tesla or my own aftermarket wheels and tires at about half the cost. Very light 18s with Pilot Sport 4S should work better than the factory 20s. And I've got my eye on Hoosiers.

It's also possible that they'e chosen a rotor and/or caliper that is so large that it doesn't fit the Aeros, and only the $5k package gets the larger rotors. However that may be less likely if the larger rotor is 355 mm. It would also make a more complex assembly line, which would be a negative.
 
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#19
I'm very confused.

I configured my order on 6/28/18. My build shows "Model 3 Performance All Wheel Drive, 18 Inch Aero Wheels."
The only choice for upgraded breaks required getting 20 inch wheels.

Maybe I made a mistake, but I will not be driving on a track or over 100 miles an hour. I read that the 18 wheels are better in snow/ice, have a more comfortable ride, are cheaper to replace, and are less likely to be damaged by potholes. Also they may have a slightly better range. Hence my decision.

So l wonder if I am correct in assuming I have the smaller rotors and calipers? I wonder if they are good enough for my driving needs.
 

Little1er

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#20
I'm very confused.

I configured my order on 6/28/18. My build shows "Model 3 Performance All Wheel Drive, 18 Inch Aero Wheels."
The only choice for upgraded breaks required getting 20 inch wheels.

Maybe I made a mistake, but I will not be driving on a track or over 100 miles an hour. I read that the 18 wheels are better in snow/ice, have a more comfortable ride, are cheaper to replace, and are less likely to be damaged by potholes. Also they may have a slightly better range. Hence my decision.

So l wonder if I am correct in assuming I have the smaller rotors and calipers? I wonder if they are good enough for my driving needs.
You likely do have smaller brakes, or at least smaller calipers. For your needs, the brakes will be perfectly fine. Upgraded brakes are for track environments and do not enhance street performance considerably, or at all I'm some cases.

As your car is configered right now, your tires are the limiting factor for stopping the car