Complete battery degradation reversal!

  • SUPPORT THE SITE AND ENJOY A PREMIUM EXPERIENCE!
    Welcome to Tesla Owners Online, four years young! For a low subscription fee, you will receive access to an ad-free version of TOO. We now offer yearly memberships! You can subscribe via this direct link:
    https://teslaownersonline.com/account/upgrades

    SUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL!
    Did you know we have a YouTube channel that's all about Tesla? Lots of Tesla information, fun, vlogs, product reviews, and a weekly Tesla Owners Online Podcast as well!

RIP_OPEC

Active member
Joined
Jul 15, 2018
Messages
78
Location
Arizona
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#1
I have nearly 5K miles on my Model 3 and my maximum charge decreased from 310 to 304 over several months. However, today I was able to charge all the way to 310 miles again. There was no significant difference in temperature as I always charge it in my garage. Perhaps the recent software update has allowed us to charge to higher extent than before? As I recall reading somewhere that charging to 100% is not really 100%, Tesla artificially caps the maximum charge level.

I am very surprised by regaining the full range, as I've been leaving it charged at 100% overnight daily and supercharging 2-3 times a week, and often leaving it out to bask in Arizona's 120 F weather.

Edit: Am on 32.2
 

FF35

Well-known member
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2018
Messages
364
Location
New Jersey
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#2
Don't worry. With the way you maintain the battery, soon enough you'll see a larger degradation than most Model 3 owners.
 

garsh

Dis Member
Moderator
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
Messages
11,756
Location
Pittsburgh PA
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#4
People need to stop freaking out variation of a couple percent in their battery capacity.

If you lose 10+% and it persists for several weeks, contact Tesla. Otherwise, relax and enjoy your car.
Or go buy a Nissan Leaf and learn what REAL battery degradation is like.
 

NR4P

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 14, 2018
Messages
333
Location
S.E. Florida
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#5
I have mine set to 90%. Sometimes its 280 miles, sometimes 277, 278, 279 or 280. I think it was 276 once.
I don't worry about a few miles as I suspect the charge cut off is by the HPWC/car communication, and when it cuts off (i.e. x hours before full I check the car), are just normal variations amounting to 1%.
 

Firewired

Active member
Joined
Apr 9, 2016
Messages
181
Location
San Antonio
#6
I thought you were joking about the car ay you are treating your battery. I never charge to a 100% and leave it there. I only do 100% if I need to for trips and use it right away. Maintaining a battery at 100% especially when warm definitely leads to parasitic loss of battery capacity.

Jeff Dahn is one of the world’s experts on batteries and he has an interesting lecture explaining how to take car of lithium batteries. Dr. Dahn used to do research for 3M, but has since been recruited by Tesla.

().
 

RandyS

Active member
Joined
Apr 6, 2016
Messages
153
Location
San Diego
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#7
I have a 5 year old Model S P85. When new it would charge up to 255 miles if/when I charged to 100%. That was usually when going on a trip and I would leave shortly after getting to 100%. Most of the time, I would operate the car around town in the 40-70% charge range.

After 5 years of driving, the car has 49,000 miles. I recently charged up to 100% prior to a longer day of driving and it went to 253.

However, is my assumption that in 5 years of driving the battery only "lost" 2 miles of range? No, not at all.

Tesla has made many adjustments to the software and instrumentation over the years. And while I din't know exactly what they have done, I do know that they have made adjustments. Are they letting me access more of the battery now than before? Not sure...But I take the 255/253 numbers with a grain of salt (meaning that they are real numbers indicating real driving range, but I don't think they're comparable because of the software updates)...

All I do know is that the car has plenty of range and I really enjoy driving it...
 

KarenRei

Top-Contributor
Joined
Jul 27, 2017
Messages
1,647
Location
Reykjavík
Country
Country
#8
I thought you were joking about the car ay you are treating your battery. I never charge to a 100% and leave it there. I only do 100% if I need to for trips and use it right away. Maintaining a battery at 100% especially when warm definitely leads to parasitic loss of battery capacity.

Jeff Dahn is one of the world’s experts on batteries and he has an interesting lecture explaining how to take car of lithium batteries. Dr. Dahn used to do research for 3M, but has since been recruited by Tesla.

().

Great video, though a bit outdated. He downplayed the impact of swelling, but the higher the energy density of a cell, in general the more significant problems with swelling are.*** For the extreme end on the anodes, you can look at pure silicon anodes, which hold ten times as much lithium as pure graphite - but tend to suffer from severe degradation because they swell and contract so much that they rip themselves apart.

In general, swelling is pretty directly proportional to the amp hours of an electrode, because that's determined by how many lithium ions can be reversibly intercalated into the electrode, so if Ah/kg rises, so does Li*/kg.


*** Caveat: my background on this is mainly from reading research papers investigating new electrode techs, not the phase of bringing cells to the market. It's always possible that swelling is more of an issue at the research phase but generally resolved by the time it comes to bringing cells to market.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 17, 2019
Messages
2
Location
Sarasota Florida
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#9
My model 3 recently locked me out while I was supercharging my vehicle. My phone and my key are inside the car, but I could not open the door. I could see the dash board said I need to tap the key. However, my phone was inside. How could this happen? I never walked away with the phone so to speak to auto lock? Did this ever happen to anyone and is there a solution?
 

MelindaV

☰ > 3
Moderator
Joined
Apr 2, 2016
Messages
9,988
Location
Vancouver, WA
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#10
My model 3 recently locked me out while I was supercharging my vehicle. My phone and my key are inside the car, but I could not open the door. I could see the dash board said I need to tap the key. However, my phone was inside. How could this happen? I never walked away with the phone so to speak to auto lock? Did this ever happen to anyone and is there a solution?
was your phone powered on?

I've been supercharging after a lengthy drive thru an area without cell service and when back to where there was a signal my phone was not connecting, so figured I'd restart it while charging. AND... move some things from the inside of the car to the trunk. I ended up shutting the door and hadn't yet turned the phone back on yet. So essentially locked myself out as soon as I shut the door (and it didn't find a nearby phone so locked automatically).
luckily in my case, there was a nice owner nearby who let me use their phone to log into my Teslafi account and unlock it.
 

garsh

Dis Member
Moderator
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
Messages
11,756
Location
Pittsburgh PA
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#11
Yes.
  • Keep a keycard in your wallet for just such an emergency
    • But in case you didn't do that (put it there fore next time)...
  • As Melinda says, borrow somebody's phone, install the Tesla app, log into your account, and use that phone to unlock the car remotely.
    • Don't forget to log out of your friend's phone when you're done.
 

Ed Woodrick

Top-Contributor
Joined
May 25, 2018
Messages
700
Location
Atlanta, GA
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#14
I have nearly 5K miles on my Model 3 and my maximum charge decreased from 310 to 304 over several months. However, today I was able to charge all the way to 310 miles again. There was no significant difference in temperature as I always charge it in my garage. Perhaps the recent software update has allowed us to charge to higher extent than before? As I recall reading somewhere that charging to 100% is not really 100%, Tesla artificially caps the maximum charge level.

I am very surprised by regaining the full range, as I've been leaving it charged at 100% overnight daily and supercharging 2-3 times a week, and often leaving it out to bask in Arizona's 120 F weather.

Edit: Am on 32.2
All you are seeing is differences in software releases
 

garsh

Dis Member
Moderator
TOO Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
Messages
11,756
Location
Pittsburgh PA
Tesla Owner
Model 3
Country
Country
#16
3% on my 2015 Leaf over 3.5 years. I'm confused as to what you are talking about.
Nice. How many miles on your Leaf?

Mine was down over 40% after 6 years & 100k miles. Garage-kept at home and at work the entire time.