Budget for Model 3?

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My Model 3 Budget is...

  • 35,000

    Votes: 53 5.6%
  • 40,000

    Votes: 156 16.4%
  • 45,000

    Votes: 291 30.5%
  • 50,000

    Votes: 190 19.9%
  • 55,000

    Votes: 141 14.8%
  • Max it out baby!

    Votes: 123 12.9%

  • Total voters
    954
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#42
I'm graduating for Texas A&M in the fall and I'm going to be saving up for this car. I'll spend for the autopilot and maybe dual motor. But not sure... Any recommends for an early adopter? The battery upgrade might be a bit but then again, it's a nice upgrade. I also reserved in the top 115,000 so maybe I'll get the big rebate or whatever it is. Is it a rebate or a tax cut? At the Tesla store the guy made it sound like a rebate.
 

MelindaV

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#43
I'm graduating for Texas A&M in the fall and I'm going to be saving up for this car. I'll spend for the autopilot and maybe dual motor. But not sure... Any recommends for an early adopter? The battery upgrade might be a bit but then again, it's a nice upgrade. I also reserved in the top 115,000 so maybe I'll get the big rebate or whatever it is. Is it a rebate or a tax cut? At the Tesla store the guy made it sound like a rebate.
the 7,500 (max amount) is a tax return credit up to your tax liability (which I think a lot of people are missing that fine point). So if you only have $6000 liability, you would get a $6000 credit (assuming the full 7500 is still available at the time you purchase).
Also if your purchase is in January 2018, you would not see the credit until you file your 2018 return in 2019.
For those lucky enough to get theirs before the end of 2017, they would get the credit back on their 2017 return a couple months later.
 
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#44
the 7,500 (max amount) is a tax return credit up to your tax liability (which I think a lot of people are missing that fine point). So if you only have $6000 liability, you would get a $6000 credit (assuming the full 7500 is still available at the time you purchase).
Also if your purchase is in January 2018, you would not see the credit until you file your 2018 return in 2019.
For those lucky enough to get theirs before the end of 2017, they would get the credit back on their 2017 return a couple months later.

Thanks a lot! This is what I was thinking! I'm not really taking into account any sort of tax break which is what everyone should be doing.
 

Ruby

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#45
We don't get a tax credit like the US does. We get an honest to goodness rebate in the form of a cheque mailed to us a few weeks after submitting the paperwork. No need to wait for tax time to claim.

The difference however is that our rebate is not federal, it's provincial and only 3 provinces offer EV rebates: BC, Ontario and Quebec.

There are links in the FAQ section to the rebates where you can read more about them.
Ah, thanks!
 
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#46
Since this thread is about Model 3 budgets, etc, I thought I would share this from green car reports:

And the report reaches some interesting conclusions.

Author Randy Carlson predicts three versions of the Model 3.



Tesla Model S




  • 344: Entry-level, single-motor, rear-wheel drive version, with a base price of $35,000, EPA range of 220 miles from a 44-kWh battery, and 0-to-60-mph time of 5.6 seconds
  • 366D: Dual-motor AWD standard version with an EPA range of 320 miles from a 66-kWh battery. 0-60 time 4.7 seconds, price $44,000
  • P366D: 340-hp performance version with dual motors, AWD, a 300-mile EPA range, and 0-to-60 time of 3.1 seconds; priced with leather and a luxury interior at $60,000
Obviously nobody really knows options or versions but this is interesting stuff.
 

Dan Detweiler

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#47
[QUOTE="




  • 344: Entry-level, single-motor, rear-wheel drive version, with a base price of $35,000, EPA range of 220 miles from a 44-kWh battery, and 0-to-60-mph time of 5.6 seconds
  • 366D: Dual-motor AWD standard version with an EPA range of 320 miles from a 66-kWh battery. 0-60 time 4.7 seconds, price $44,000
  • P366D: 340-hp performance version with dual motors, AWD, a 300-mile EPA range, and 0-to-60 time of 3.1 seconds; priced with leather and a luxury interior at $60,000
Obviously nobody really knows options or versions but this is interesting stuff.[/QUOTE]

If this holds water then I could get the 366D model and still have budget room for $6-8,000 worth of goodies! YAY ME!!

Dan
 

garsh

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#48
I'm *really* hoping for a range option north of 400 miles. 300 is more realistic, but I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Once batteries have advanced to the point where range is 500-600 miles, and supercharging takes 15 minutes instead of 30 minutes, then you're going to see people switching to electric vehicles in droves.
 

Dan Detweiler

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#49
The next question is just what that hypothetical $6-8,000 will get me.

Supercharging, Auto Pilot, Upgraded Seats, Upgraded Paint, Premium Interior, Heated/Ventilated Seats, Heated Steering Wheel?
On the Model S that all adds up to about $12,000 or so. Hopefully on the Model 3 it won't be quite as steep.

Dan
 

Badback

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#50
That is one I haven't heard before, RE 2016. I sure hope not!! I did a search on the IRS site and this is what I found. It does not have an end date that I found other than the 200,000 car limit and then the phase out period. Sounds like he was unsure of the details of the credit. And that is something some people don't realize. It is a Credit. And that is taken at the end of your taxes. After you finish and it gives you the "Tax due" at the end of the 1040 form, you then subtract the $7500. you have to actually owe at least much on what you made during the year to get the full credit. Else you only get up to what you did owe for the year with NO carryover into following years.

Plug-In Electric Drive Vehicle Credit (IRC 30D)

The credit begins to phase out for a manufacturer’s vehicles when at least 200,000 qualifying vehicles have been sold for use in the United States (determined on a cumulative basis for sales after December 31, 2009).
Qualified Plug-In Electric Drive Motor Vehicle Credit (IRC 30D) Phase Out
The qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle credit phases out for a manufacturer’s vehicles over the one-year period beginning with the second calendar quarter after the calendar quarter in which at least 200,000 qualifying vehicles manufactured by that manufacturer have been sold for use in the United States (determined on a cumulative basis for sales after December 31, 2009) (“phase-out period”). Qualifying vehicles manufactured by that manufacturer are eligible for 50 percent of the credit if acquired in the first two quarters of the phase-out period and 25 percent of the credit if acquired in the third or fourth quarter of the phase-out period. Vehicles manufactured by that manufacturer are not eligible for a credit if acquired after the phase-out period.
 

Thalass

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#51
I'm *really* hoping for a range option north of 400 miles. 300 is more realistic, but I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Once batteries have advanced to the point where range is 500-600 miles, and supercharging takes 15 minutes instead of 30 minutes, then you're going to see people switching to electric vehicles in droves.
I don't get this, really. Is it even possible to buy a petrol car that will do 600mi/1000km in a single tank? I agree that quick charge times are something to aim for, even though they aren't necessary every time you plug in, but most cars will do 300mi/500km in one tank. And people seem fine with that. Might as well demand a car that can drive 10,000km to a charge, just in case you want to drive around the world in one go one day.
 

LUXMAN

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#52
Since this thread is about Model 3 budgets, etc, I thought I would share this from green car reports:

344: Entry-level, single-motor, rear-wheel drive version, with a base price of $35,000, EPA range of 220 miles from a 44-kWh battery, and 0-to-60-mph time of 5.6 seconds
366D: Dual-motor AWD standard version with an EPA range of 320 miles from a 66-kWh battery. 0-60 time 4.7 seconds, price $44,000
P366D: 340-hp performance version with dual motors, AWD, a 300-mile EPA range, and 0-to-60 time of 3.1 seconds; priced with leather and a luxury interior at $60,000
Obviously nobody really knows options or versions but this is interesting stuff.

While I think his prices are good estimates, I don't think a 44kw battery pack is gonna do it. The S60 is a big heavy car that is rated at 208 miles. Even though the car is lighter, there is no way it will go further on more than a 25% reduction in battery capacity. It's just just simple physics. The motors that Tesla uses currently draw somewhere in the 300-325 W/mi range to move the S. Using the lower number, 300x220=66,000W, so 66kw. So for the S60, that number looks right on with EPA Estimates. So I personally think it will be a base 60kw battery. As a comparison, my LEAF does 250W/mi, so to achieve those numbers, you would need at least a 55kw pack....plus reserve.

Plus 3.1 seconds? Not gonna happen. I think realistically it will look more like this

360: Entry-level, single-motor, rear-wheel drive version, with a base price of $35,000, EPA range of 220 miles from a 60-kWh battery, and 0-to-60-mph time of 5.9 seconds
375D: Dual-motor AWD standard version with an EPA range of 280 miles from a 75-kWh battery. 0-60 time 5.0 seconds, price $48,000
(Its the battery that is gonna run up the price. This doesn't include Leather, autopilot or anything else)
P75D: Performance version with dual motors, AWD, a 260-mile EPA range, and 0-to-60 time of 4.0 seconds; priced with leather $60,000
 

garsh

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#53
I don't get this, really. Is it even possible to buy a petrol car that will do 600mi/1000km in a single tank?
Yes: http://www.autoblog.com/2015/03/19/top-10-small-cars-longest-total-driving-range/
I agree that quick charge times are something to aim for, even though they aren't necessary every time you plug in, but most cars will do 300mi/500km in one tank. And people seem fine with that.
Right. But fill-up times are 5-10 minutes. When superchargers are at 15 minutes, and range is closer to 600 miles, then there are no longer any benefits to petrol vehicles, even for long-range trips. Combine that with the convenient overnight charging at home for normal, everyday use, and it will spell the end of petrol vehicles.
Might as well demand a car that can drive 10,000km to a charge, just in case you want to drive around the world in one go one day.
Why do you feel the need to go all "reductio ad absurdum" in response to my simple prediction?
 

Thalass

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#54
Why do you feel the need to go all "reductio ad absurdum" in response to my simple prediction?
It just felt right at the time

I agree with your points, but I hold the position that a vehicle being electric already puts it ahead of similar performing cars. Range is something that isn't an issue anymore, not for Tesla at least. People seem to want electric cars to not only be faster, but go further, carry more, make coffee, fly, etc before they'll give up their petrol car. They keep moving the goal posts and saying that EVs aren't good enough. It's annoying.

(oh I did that thing again haha)
 

garsh

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#55
Range is something that isn't an issue anymore, not for Tesla at least.
Range is less of an issue for Tesla vehicles than for other electrics, but the combination of limited range, slow recharging, and limited supercharging locations means that long drives require much more planning and take longer than in a petrol car. Doubling max range to 600 miles and halving supercharging times to 15 minutes (and adding more supercharging stations) would make driving an electric car on long trips pretty much equivalent to petrol.

So you're right. I bought my Leaf. It's a fine commuter car, and has been great in that role (ignoring the battery degradation). Now I'm moving the goal posts. I'd *really* like an electric car with 600 miles of range and 15 minute supercharging so I can use it confidently for my annual road trip, and for taking the kids to college. But I'm probably going to be keeping my minivan, because I don't think the Model 3 is going to be able to handle all of those chores just yet.
 

Englander

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#56
I've reserved the Model 3 in the UK, and the big unknown here is how the prices will translate into £ Sterling. Very often we seem to get $ for £ equity, so the $35000 base model will probably sell for £35000 in the UK.

Because of this it's very difficult to set a budget until I know the UK prices.

My priority list for upgrades is:
1. Autopilot
2. Extra range
3. AWD
4. Supercharging (if extra!)

I could go on, but doubt that my wallet would take it...
 

AEDennis

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#57
I've reserved the Model 3 in the UK, and the big unknown here is how the prices will translate into £ Sterling. Very often we seem to get $ for £ equity, so the $35000 base model will probably sell for £35000 in the UK.

Because of this it's very difficult to set a budget until I know the UK prices.

My priority list for upgrades is:
1. Autopilot
2. Extra range
3. AWD
4. Supercharging (if extra!)

I could go on, but doubt that my wallet would take it...
Not really. For the past few years, Tesla tends to sell the car AT THE USD price around the world. What this means is that you, the international customer, takes on the currency risk.

So, if Brexit were to happen and the pound were to devalue to the point of 1USD:1GBP, then your statement will be true, otherwise, at 2USD:1GBP, your price will be 17,500 GBP. At the current exchange rate a Model 3 would cost 24,516 GBP.

Interestingly as well, there is no China premium in what Tesla sells its vehicles in China, so a Model S in China is actually competing with lower end luxury cars (vs. a 3 or 5 in BMW parlance vs. 7 in the US.)

(I don't know how Tesla does VAT for ex-US countries, but in the US, the pricing is before incentives and before taxes) (In California, where I am, that would mean that I would pay $35k to Tesla, 9% tax on that $35k to California (this changes based on county of domicile) and then I get the $7,500 from Federal (if I have a tax liability) and anywhere from $0 to $4,000 in California credit based on my income for the year that I purchase the vehicle (or is it the year prior, the law just changed.)

Hope that helps.

I think high incentive in the US is currently the State of Colorado for EVs. With a car as expensive as an S or X, I believe it was New Jersey because there is no sales tax on EVs.
 

Englander

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#58
Not really. For the past few years, Tesla tends to sell the car AT THE USD price around the world. What this means is that you, the international customer, takes on the currency risk.
That's very interesting. I've done some rough calculations on the relative price of the Model S in the US and UK, and if I take off the UK's 20% VAT, the Model S is actually slightly cheaper in the UK at the current exchange rate!

Hopefully this will still apply by the time we see a RHD Model 3, and if it does, and assuming the exchange rate is still around 1.4 $/£, the base model will probably come out at around £30,000 GBP including our VAT.
 

AEDennis

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#59
That's very interesting. I've done some rough calculations on the relative price of the Model S in the US and UK, and if I take off the UK's 20% VAT, the Model S is actually slightly cheaper in the UK at the current exchange rate!

Hopefully this will still apply by the time we see a RHD Model 3, and if it does, and assuming the exchange rate is still around 1.4 $/£, the base model will probably come out at around £30,000 GBP including our VAT.
I believe that Tesla adjusts the price quarterly or monthly... There seems to be discussion in predominantly non-US forums of Tesla's "price change" (really currency adjustment)
 

TrevP

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#60
By my calculations, at least in Canada, Model 3 should come in cheaper than most think based on Model S straight exchange + NAFTA import duty. The batteries in the Model S are made in japan and constitute a very large portion of the cost of the vehicle and thus are subject to a 6.1% import duty. Given the Model 3 cells will be made in Nevada this import duty should no longer apply. I'm still trying to get confirmation from Tesla on this. If I do I'll report it here and in my videos.