Basic cruise VS TACC

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LUXMAN

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#1
So with this new option, I am contemplating upgrading my model 3 to full self driving. One thing I didn’t like under the auto pilot when I tried it in version 8 was the traffic aware cruise control was very touchy versus basic cruise. I didn’t like how it reacts quickly. Has it gotten any better in version nine?
 

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#2
It still reacts rather late to changes that humans can predict (someone preparing to merge into your lane, for instance) or sometimes reacts preemptively to something that never happens (entrance/exit lanes where a car might merge into your lane (even if it’s currently exiting the highway)).
 

LUXMAN

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It still reacts rather late to changes that humans can predict (someone preparing to merge into your lane, for instance) or sometimes reacts preemptively to something that never happens (entrance/exit lanes where a car might merge into your lane (even if it’s currently exiting the highway)).
So I would have To intervene like I do now with basic cruise. But it’s those preemptive cases that annoyed me in the first place. I remember how it used to break pretty hard for those. Has that gotten any better?
 

Kizzy

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#4
So I would have To intervene like I do now with basic cruise. But it’s those preemptive cases that annoyed me in the first place. I remember how it used to break pretty hard for those. Has that gotten any better?
It’s been fine on the highway. Braking when folks merge is just a little harder than what a human might do if they’re actively tracking what other cars are doing.

I’ve had some unexpected sudden braking on 2019.5.4 which has been a bit worse than 2018.50.6 was, but it’s better than v8 was, in my opinion.
 

LUXMAN

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#5
It’s been fine on the highway. Braking when folks merge is just a little harder than what a human might do if they’re actively tracking what other cars are doing.

I’ve had some unexpected sudden braking on 2019.5.4 which has been a bit worse than 2018.50.6 was, but it’s better than v8 was, in my opinion.
OK. I am still on 50.6.

So has the AP functions gotten better? It also0 made me twitchy when I was in the fast lane next to the barrier and it tried to merge into it after the Expresslane exit dumped into my lane.
 

FRC

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#6
@LUXMAN , I've put 13K on mine since September. Using EAP about half the time. I don't think the improvements to TACC or to NOA in that time have been significant at all. And in some cases(5.4 for example) they have gotten worse. I think TACC, for the most part reacts about like it did 5 months ago. It is too quick to break when the unexpected occurs and too slow to accelerate when the path ahead clears. In short, it's just too safe(I'm not saying this negatively, at this point it should be too safe). You learn pretty quickly to anticipate these oddities, and overcome them with accelerator modulation. We also know that these inadequacies will improve over time. Lane keep is one area that has improved a bit. The wild swerving ride to center in the lines has calmed a bit. NOA in it's current iteration is a fairly useless function. I think Tesla included these base functions in EAP purely to glean data for FSD. Now that there are enough cars supplying that data, they've removed NOA functions from EAP. Bottom line...If you think that current pricing now justifies the purchase, pull the trigger. TACC with lane keep is certainly one of my favorite features and will improve with time. I personally haven't purchased FSD yet and probably won't until significant advancement in utility is achieved.
 

TrevP

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#7
Things are generally improving I'd Say. I haven't had any fantom braking for the last 2 updates in my car which was the most annoying thing. Nav on Autopilot still needs some work but so far it's encouraging! The fact that it makes a b-line for the HOV lane automatically when I"m in the adjacent lane is always amusing ;)
 

Frully

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#8
Random thoughts on the matter:
Just had a 6 hour round trip with day/night highway driving on salted highways (low lane line visibility)...and it was very smooth overall.
The worst behaviour (EAP) was aborted lane changes because it couldn't see the outer lane line at night. I don't like how it corrects so suddenly to make me appear impaired. "signal, start changing, change mind serve".
No phantom braking and played really nice on NOA with passing other cars.
I was surprised if I signalled to overtake with someone already passing me the car would slow down to make a gap before moving over instead of just signalling idly by.
I also don't like how it wants me to essentially cut people off when there is no merge pressure to "get out of the passing lane". It wants me to initiate an overtake from 3-4 seconds following distance behind someone, but it wants me to initiate the re-merge at less than 1 second distance. I find that a dick move especially on sanded roads. On long straight flat roads I like to stay left until the merge pressure from behind is equal (the guy behind me is as far ahead as the guy 'we' are passing.)
All in all, TACC and EAP are orders of magnitude better than manual highway driving.
 

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#9
I've had the FSD option since day one and turn on Autopilot/TACC all the time, in all road conditions, as soon as the wheel shows up. If you are considering an upgrade I think the real key here is how you perceive what TACC should be. If you want the car to be the primary driver then no, it's not there yet. If you want a driver aid where you are primarily responsible for everything the car does and you are in control of the car the entire time you are behind the wheel, well that is when you start to learn how awesome this system is. It's just a part of my normal driving routine to take over when I see a situation that I know will be difficult for the car, we work as a team and she does most of the heavy lifting. I had to rent a car on a work trip recently and it was SO annoying that I actually had to drive the "Old Fashioned Way". You know, where I had to be the one doing ALL the work. Not to mention having to remember to turn the stupid car off when I got out!...LOL :D. I can't wait for more FSD features to be released and I will use everyone of them to the best of their abilities. However I have no illusions that the car will be in full control, EVER. Don't buy TACC if you want to trust everything the car does, buy it if you want an assistant to work with you. Once you are used to driving with it there is no going back!!
 

Rick Steinwand

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#10
It still reacts rather late to changes that humans can predict (someone preparing to merge into your lane, for instance) or sometimes reacts preemptively to something that never happens (entrance/exit lanes where a car might merge into your lane (even if it’s currently exiting the highway)).
Don't you think that will improve with the new HW 3.0 coming out this summer?
 

MelindaV

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#12
Don't you think that will improve with the new HW 3.0 coming out this summer?
IDK that HW 3.0 will make much difference to everyday EAP (as we've know it to this point) actions. It will have the processing power to do more intense calculations and reactions like dealing with a 4 way stop intersection without running down the old man in the crosswalk.
 

LUXMAN

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IDK that HW 3.0 will make much difference to everyday EAP (as we've know it to this point) actions. It will have the processing power to do more intense calculations and reactions like dealing with a 4 way stop intersection without running down the old man in the crosswalk.
Could it make the regular autopilot smoother? I am wondering if it that much of a faster processor, then it will be able to calm the hunting around I sometimes hear about. Or is that getting better already?
 

3V Pilot

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Could it make the regular autopilot smoother? I am wondering if it that much of a faster processor, then it will be able to calm the hunting around I sometimes hear about. Or is that getting better already?
The hunting around while in a lane has gotten better with updates. The one thing I still notice is when lane splits, like a highway off-ramp on the right or left turn lane on a city street, sometimes the car will pull a bit that direction then re-center. I just stay out of those lanes or you can dis-engage autosteer and stick with TACC if you prefer a smoother ride in those cases.
 

Bernard

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Could it make the regular autopilot smoother? I am wondering if it that much of a faster processor, then it will be able to calm the hunting around I sometimes hear about. Or is that getting better already?
One thing it will probably do is provide the power to stabilize the jittering and morphing images of cars/trucks/busses/etc, surrounding your car on the screen; if it does, though, I think I'll miss it -- watching the constant adjustments is great entertainment when waiting in line at a traffic light ;-)
 

MelindaV

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#16
The hunting around while in a lane has gotten better with updates. The one thing I still notice is when lane splits, like a highway off-ramp on the right or left turn lane on a city street, sometimes the car will pull a bit that direction then re-center. I just stay out of those lanes or you can dis-engage autosteer and stick with TACC if you prefer a smoother ride in those cases.
this really is my only gripe with AP right now. However, someone said with the 2019.5.4 (that I've not gotten yet) said this update made a significant improvement on re-centering to fill a merge lane.
 

Bernard

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#17
I've had the FSD option since day one and turn on Autopilot/TACC all the time, in all road conditions, as soon as the wheel shows up. If you are considering an upgrade I think the real key here is how you perceive what TACC should be. If you want the car to be the primary driver then no, it's not there yet. If you want a driver aid where you are primarily responsible for everything the car does and you are in control of the car the entire time you are behind the wheel, well that is when you start to learn how awesome this system is. It's just a part of my normal driving routine to take over when I see a situation that I know will be difficult for the car, we work as a team and she does most of the heavy lifting. I had to rent a car on a work trip recently and it was SO annoying that I actually had to drive the "Old Fashioned Way". You know, where I had to be the one doing ALL the work. Not to mention having to remember to turn the stupid car off when I got out!...LOL :D. I can't wait for more FSD features to be released and I will use everyone of them to the best of their abilities. However I have no illusions that the car will be in full control, EVER. Don't buy TACC if you want to trust everything the car does, buy it if you want an assistant to work with you. Once you are used to driving with it there is no going back!!
I agree about autopilot/autosteering: it's not nearly as good as a human driver yet, but it's a great way to relax a bit and enjoy the ride. For instance, like many people, when I look at a nice view to the side of the car, I tend to deviate slowly from the lane -- no more with auto-steering! so I can enjoy the vistas on trips, not just let my passenger describe them to me ;-)
But also keep in mind that autosteer really works only on highways and two-lane roads that have very few intersections and are not too curvy. It really does not know how to negotiate sharp curves and may do odd things at intersections other than simple 90deg Ts and crosses.
 

Bernard

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#18
this really is my only gripe with AP right now. However, someone said with the 2019.5.4 (that I've not gotten yet) said this update made a significant improvement on re-centering to fill a merge lane.
That would be nice; it's a really odd feeling when the car swings into the merge lane only to get back in line -- and it must look even weirder to following drivers...
 

LUXMAN

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#19
This is good info.
Since I didn't buy EAP in the first place, I dropped those threads out of my cross check as I couldn't keep up or relate to them.

So I didn't buy it initially for $5k (plus $3k for FSD) as I thought it was too much for what I would use it for.
The $2k basic autopilot is tempting for just the TACC and Lane centering.
And the $3k FSD to get the NOA plus the AP computer upgrade (I am assuming it will be just the one to 3.0). This represents a $3k savings to me ($6k at last pricing).
So I guess the question is will I really use it?
It is hard for me to "sit back and ride". I enjoy being in control and not being behind silly drivers. I enjoy being able to goose the power to get ahead of rush hour.
So I am thinking how I will use this and what it will provide me.
I don't think it will provide that much as a resale item as I plan on driving this thing a lonnnnnnng time.
 

Bernard

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#20
My other (minor) gripe about EAP/TACC is that, when you engage it, it immediately sets the target speed as the speed limit for the area plus (or minus) your set margin. So if you engage EAP/TACC as you merge into w hole in traffic when the traffic is moving slower than the speed limit, your car will accelerate quickly to try to reach (speed limit + margin), then brake as it reaches your selected follow distance because the cars ahead are all driving 20mph slower. a human driver would simply accelerate slowly to rejoin the line and never brake. I'd prefer if EAP/TACC would by default set the target speed as the current speed of the car, then I can increase it to what I want with the thumb wheel.
So for now I just drive manually until I have rejoined the line ahead, then engage EAP.
My last gripe is slowly disappearing: that was the behavior of TACC when following a car that moves to a turn lane and slows down sharply: even when the driver of that car is really good and does not start braking until their car is in the turn lane, TACC would brake with it until it was pretty close to abreast of its rear lights, then accelerate like mad to retain target speed. That was a pain, because, whenever a turn lane appeared and the car ahead looked like it might use it, I would have to disengage TACC to avoid this behavior. Now it's still present, but the effect is much weaker; another few firmware updates, and it should be human-comparable.
It's rather fun to experience this constant, incremental improvement of features, but I expect we'll see a sharp change once we get HW 3.0 if it is to live up to Elon's claims for city driving or to enable long-distance summoning.
 
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