Amber turn signals

JWardell

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#61
They may also have an issue with left/right turn signals-- they may need to add repeaters on the front sides of the car. It'll be interesting to see.
They already have repeaters in the cameras in the fenders, so I believe they should already be compliant.
Frankly it upsets me that so many American brands don't have side repeaters, there are so many times when front and rear turn signals are not visible, like when someone is about to change lanes into you because they didn't check their mirrors.
 

Bernard

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#62
They already have repeaters in the cameras in the fenders, so I believe they should already be compliant.
Frankly it upsets me that so many American brands don't have side repeaters, there are so many times when front and rear turn signals are not visible, like when someone is about to change lanes into you because they didn't check their mirrors.
Sorry for being unclear; I had in mind the placement of the repeaters. Moving the repeaters by about 4in (!) was the one adaptation I had to make to my US-bought car when I moved to Switzerland in 2006 -- in the end, it meant adding new repeaters and disconnecting the existing ones. (Not all European countries are that uptight and it's possible even Switzerland has relaxed some since ;-)
 

JWardell

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#63
Sorry for being unclear; I had in mind the placement of the repeaters. Moving the repeaters by about 4in (!) was the one adaptation I had to make to my US-bought car when I moved to Switzerland in 2006 -- in the end, it meant adding new repeaters and disconnecting the existing ones. (Not all European countries are that uptight and it's possible even Switzerland has relaxed some since ;-)
Oh wow, I didn't realize they were that specific. I've always seen them in the front fenders in European cars, and more recently in mirrors which I figured was a bit lazier. Do they have to be higher now?
 

Bernard

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#64
Oh wow, I didn't realize they were that specific. I've always seen them in the front fenders in European cars, and more recently in mirrors which I figured was a bit lazier. Do they have to be higher now?
For new cars, probably -- almost all of them were in the side mirrors by the the time I left Europe in 2016. I agree that such mounting of repeaters implies more flexibility on the distance from the nose of the car. (In 2006, my US car had front fender repeaters, as did the equivalent model sold in Europe, but with that 4in difference in the distance from the nose ;-)
 

lairdb

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#65
Red signals is a pet peeve of mine, and I had a discussion with @Ingineer about it. I have not gotten into it, but he indicated that although there are separate wiring positions in the connector for stop and turn, the current USA taillights do not use the separate stop light pin. (He did not indicate whether the harness was populated.)

IOW, it's almost certainly not just a matter of swapping in the EU taillight assembly; there's likely a software setting as well.
 

coredumperror

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#70
The red, shared turn signals are a terrible safety hazard. Why do you think EU requires them to be orange??

I, too, am hopeful that I can retrofit my NA Model 3 with proper signals.
 

Reflex

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#71
The Model 3 has ample real-estate in those taillight clusters to have included a more robust brake light design (it’s appallingly small) — dangerous in my opinion (and experience, following a Model 3 about a month ago). That bizarre “chrome” surrounding element could give over to another row of red LEDs for a double-sized brake light, and one row of amber LEDs for the turn signals and hazards.

I would eagerly swab out EU lights if they become available and are plug and play (and an improvement).

The headlights are wonderful — too bad they dropped the proverbial all on the rear.
 

MelindaV

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#72
The red, shared turn signals are a terrible safety hazard. Why do you think EU requires them to be orange??

I, too, am hopeful that I can retrofit my NA Model 3 with proper signals.
so terrible that Audi uses the red only on their current US sold cars (just to name one European car brands with red signals).
 

coredumperror

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#73
so terrible that Audi uses the red only on their current US sold cars (just to name one European car brands with red signals).
Want to know why? Becuase it's cheaper and they don't have to use amber. If you think a car company gives the tiniest **** about a safety issue that isn't glamorous, like crash test results, if it'll save them money to ignore it, you're deluding yourself.
 

lairdb

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#74
Want to know why? Becuase it's cheaper and they don't have to use amber. If you think a car company gives the tiniest **** about a safety issue that isn't glamorous, like crash test results, if it'll save them money to ignore it, you're deluding yourself.
Or, the US government makes pointless rules about total surface area of red reflectivity that compel manufacturers to make silly local variations instead of being able to make the better and less expensive uniform choice.
 

coredumperror

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#75
Or, the US government makes pointless rules about total surface area of red reflectivity that compel manufacturers to make silly local variations instead of being able to make the better and less expensive uniform choice.
Got a citation for that? I've never heard of this.
 

SoFlaModel3

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#76
so terrible that Audi uses the red only on their current US sold cars (just to name one European car brands with red signals).
Was just going to post the same thing actually. If the person behind you can tell the difference between something solid and something that flashes — well then I just hope we all have autopilot soon enough 😎
 

garsh

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#78
so terrible that Audi uses the red only on their current US sold cars (just to name one European car brands with red signals).
Why do automakers prefer to change this between North America and European versions of the car, when it would appear that the European version is perfectly acceptable in the U.S.?

Is it not acceptable for some reason I haven't heard?
I can't imagine that an amber bulb is much more expensive than a red one, and producing/stocking/installing two different parts is a logistics headache.
 

lairdb

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#79
Got a citation for that? I've never heard of this.
Why do automakers prefer to change this between North America and European versions of the car, when it would appear that the European version is perfectly acceptable in the U.S.?

Is it not acceptable for some reason I haven't heard?
I can't imagine that an amber bulb is much more expensive than a red one, and producing/stocking/installing two different parts is a logistics headache.
FMVSS 108 and SAE (applicable standards in the US) require certain sizes of the illuminated area, of the reflective non-illuminated area, etc.). Different standards (ECE) apply in the EU. Although possible, it has often proven challenging for manufacturers to have amber signals and separate red brakes and still meet the US surface area standards.

Other conflicting parts of the standards already push toward separate assemblies for separate markets (luminosity, divergence, etc.) so if you’re stuck with two assemblies already...