Amber turn signals

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#41
We will have to wait for the car to be released in Europe.

Over there (except if that has changed now), amber is mandatory at the back.

Maybe, we will be able to switch the lights with European ones.
I gather the European Model 3 has a different power receptacle & as such will not fit with the US Model 3. :(
 

mishakim

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#42
I gather the European Model 3 has a different power receptacle & as such will not fit with the US Model 3. :(
Do you mean the lights have different connectors, or just that the car charging is different? If the light assembly connectors are different, it's probably only to prevent mis-installation, and can be re-wired fairly easily. I doubt there are a different number of conductors. Of course, it's also possible that it's all done in software, and swapping the light assemblies won't fix anything, though that would seem to be wasting dual-color LEDs on US models.
 

lairdb

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#43
I'm not really a car modifier -- but there are two mods I'm planning. Once Euro taillights with amber signals are available, if they're a drop-in or easy change I'll switch, and adding a CHMSL modulator*.

Has anyone looked into whether the brake and turn electrical signals are multiplexed at (inside) the taillight, or upstream? It's more likely that we can direct swap if existing taillight is receiving separate brake and turn and multiplexing them internally.


(*If you decide to do this, please get one with stop-and-go lockout.)
 
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Twiglett

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#44
I'm guessing the headlight has the controller for the indicators.
after getting a headlight replaced, the indicators blinked at double time until the tech re-synched them.
 
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#45
Do you mean the lights have different connectors, or just that the car charging is different? If the light assembly connectors are different, it's probably only to prevent mis-installation, and can be re-wired fairly easily. I doubt there are a different number of conductors. Of course, it's also possible that it's all done in software, and swapping the light assemblies won't fix anything, though that would seem to be wasting dual-color LEDs on US models.
I was under the impression that the charging receptacle was part of the rear taillight cluster and it was a totally different style receptacle to the USA version.
 

Ingineer

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#46
No, charge port is not connected physically to the tail light assembly.

According to what I can see, there are 5 pins on the tailight connector:

1-Gnd
2-Tail
3-Turn
4-N.C.
5-Stop

Looking at the US light though, I only see pins 1-3, so they aren't using 5. I assume when EU is set in the car's config, it will properly split the signals. So I don't think you are going to be able to enable the EU OEM config. The only other way to make this work would be with some kind of external circuitry. Since there is a CHMSL signal it could be logically XOR'd with the existing single signal on pin 3 to make a pure turn signal. It's unknown if the VC's will support the extra load of the 2 added brake lights on the CHMSL output though.

Hopefully by the time you guys are ready, I've come up with a remote way to change the config, unless of course you can get Tesla to change it willingly.

I don't understand why Tesla didn't just use Amber for all markets. Word is Elon didn't like it.
 

Bernard

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#48
Quite a few of these "amber" turn signals actually look red. Case in point: I had a Passat Highline 2006 sedan in Switzerland, with LED tail lights. Each of the tail lights is made of two round lights with clear lenses (one larger on the outside, one smaller on the inside, actually on the lid of the trunk) within a red rectangular enclosure. (One inside light is used for backing up and the other as a rear fog light.)
The outside lights are used for night driving, brakes, and turn signals; the night lights and the brake lights are the same (brake lights shine brighter), using red LEDs in a ring; the turn signal uses the same LEDs, but now shining yellow/orange, plus a halogen bulb in the circle inside the ring that produces both white and red light; in both cases, the whole thing gets a red tint from the red surround. See
https://www.wagen-shop.com/fr/9236-...ine-rouge-fume-dectane-rv43dlrs-rv43dlrs.html
So, there is orange/yellow in the turn signal, but it really looks red from a distance, because the brightest part is the halogen in the center; nevertheless turns signals are immediately distinguishable from the brake lights, mostly thanks to the change in shape (a full disk for turn signals, am outer ring for brake lights).

From personal observation, however, I am not sure how much difference in safety we would get in the US from requiring amber lights for the turn signal: well under half of the driving population uses turn signals... (And many of those regularly misuse them -- think of the classic maneuver of signalling a left turn but actually moving right on the side of the road to slow down and stop prior to making the left turn in front of oncoming traffic ;-)
 

garsh

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#49

mishakim

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#50
No, charge port is not connected physically to the tail light assembly.

According to what I can see, there are 5 pins on the tailight connector:

1-Gnd
2-Tail
3-Turn
4-N.C.
5-Stop

Looking at the US light though, I only see pins 1-3, so they aren't using 5. I assume when EU is set in the car's config, it will properly split the signals. So I don't think you are going to be able to enable the EU OEM config. The only other way to make this work would be with some kind of external circuitry. Since there is a CHMSL signal it could be logically XOR'd with the existing single signal on pin 3 to make a pure turn signal. It's unknown if the VC's will support the extra load of the 2 added brake lights on the CHMSL output though.

Hopefully by the time you guys are ready, I've come up with a remote way to change the config, unless of course you can get Tesla to change it willingly.

I don't understand why Tesla didn't just use Amber for all markets. Word is Elon didn't like it.
So are they using the same LEDs for turn and stop, and just blinking the stop light when doing both at once? I hate that! Or are they changing the brightness of the tail for stop? I hate that a bit less.
 

Ingineer

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#51
So are they using the same LEDs for turn and stop, and just blinking the stop light when doing both at once? I hate that! Or are they changing the brightness of the tail for stop? I hate that a bit less.
It's the same LEDs and brightness for turn/stop. The car is wired for separate turn/stop, but I don't think it's enabled, so a light swap will not work by itself.
 
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#52
No, charge port is not connected physically to the tail light assembly.

According to what I can see, there are 5 pins on the tailight connector:

1-Gnd
2-Tail
3-Turn
4-N.C.
5-Stop

Looking at the US light though, I only see pins 1-3, so they aren't using 5. I assume when EU is set in the car's config, it will properly split the signals. So I don't think you are going to be able to enable the EU OEM config. The only other way to make this work would be with some kind of external circuitry. Since there is a CHMSL signal it could be logically XOR'd with the existing single signal on pin 3 to make a pure turn signal. It's unknown if the VC's will support the extra load of the 2 added brake lights on the CHMSL output though.

Hopefully by the time you guys are ready, I've come up with a remote way to change the config, unless of course you can get Tesla to change it willingly.

I don't understand why Tesla didn't just use Amber for all markets. Word is Elon didn't like it.
Thank you
 

coredumperror

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#53
EDIT: Whoops, looks like this was already discussed before I made my post. Odd that my search for "amber turn" didn't reveal this thread. Sorry, mods.

Original post follows:

I really dislike red turn signals, because I don't think they distinguish themselves enough from the breaks. And I really, really dislike cars that share the break lights with the turn signals. I consider this a significant safety hazard, as it makes it fairly difficult to distinguish at a glance between a driver who has a turn signal on, and a driver who intends to go straight but is in the process of switching to/from breaking.

I had mistakenly assumed, based on a video I saw back in December, that the Model 3 had amber turn signals. But last night, I actually looked at the back of my car while the turn signal was on, and discovered that the signals are red. And their little strip of LEDs share double duty with the breaks. This mad me rather upset. :(

So I would like to remedy this, which I see as a severe design flaw. Does anyone know how I might go about re-wiring that strip of LEDs to light up as amber instead of red when the turn signals are on?

I realize that this might remove the ability for that outside strip of lights to act as break lights, but could the inner strip of lights, on the trunk (which are currently not used for anything, as far as I can tell) be wired to act as the break lights?

Is this even remotely possible? I'm not at all familiar with this, so I realize that it's entirely possible that this project just isn't doable.
 
Last edited:

Dinozero

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#54
I am very anal about headlights their design and technology. A lot of my friends think I’m nuts. But I have never even thought about scrutinizing rear lights as you all do. Now I am going to have to be really particular about that as well. Dang it
 

Arktctr

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#55
Does anyone have info/pics/otherwise about how the model 3 taillights will work in Europe given their regulations requiring Amber turn signals? The model 3 taillights are one of the only things I don’t like in that the overall size of the fixture is good, but the illuminated are is relatively puny by contrast. I imagine the outer areas (used just for running lights in the US) would be the brake lights and the thin line would be the turn signals in these other markets. Would love if that could be the US config as well but likely wishful thinking. Yes, this is a thread that most not care much about but it’s something I think about every time I see a model 3 hit the brakes.
 

JWardell

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#57
I'm also curious how the taillights (and possible other things) will change for Europe. Rear fogs for example. They are usually nicer than their US counterparts and I have swapped in euro lights into cars because of it.
 

Bernard

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#58
I'm also curious how the taillights (and possible other things) will change for Europe. Rear fogs for example. They are usually nicer than their US counterparts and I have swapped in euro lights into cars because of it.
Good point.
Rear fog light (just one: the left rear taillight, shining much, much stronger than normal, in red only) is required through much of Western Europe, so Tesla will have to conform. Model S and X had that feature in Switzerland.
They may also have an issue with left/right turn signals-- they may need to add repeaters on the front sides of the car. It'll be interesting to see.