Aftermarket winter rims

Mohammad

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#1
Hi All,

Let me begin by saying I love my Model 3. I just wish the 18" stock wheels Tesla offered were black instead of grey.

I know this is a stupid noob question.

But I'm not too familiar with customizing cars or their wheels (awkward ;) )
I was wondering that if I can purchase winter tires seperately and match them with rims of the same size?
I don't like the winter tires + rims Tesla offers. I wanted to purchase winter tires that are similar to the ones my brother's 2018 Honda Accord has. I want to pair them up with some rims I like at Canadian Tire. Is this possible? Are there any restrictions? Any tips would be much appreciated.

I just want to start planning for the winter here in Ontario before hand, while at the same time making sure my car looks good :)
 

m3_4_wifey

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#2
Hi All,

Let me begin by saying I love my Model 3. I just wish the 18" stock wheels Tesla offered were black instead of grey.

I know this is a stupid noob question.

But I'm not too familiar with customizing cars or their wheels (awkward ;) )
I was wondering that if I can purchase winter tires seperately and match them with rims of the same size?
I don't like the winter tires + rims Tesla offers. I wanted to purchase winter tires that are similar to the ones my brother's 2018 Honda Accord has. I want to pair them up with some rims I like at Canadian Tire. Is this possible? Are there any restrictions? Any tips would be much appreciated.

I just want to start planning for the winter here in Ontario before hand, while at the same time making sure my car looks good :)
You could probably get the 18" rims painted if you wanted.
You can get winter tires of the same size and put them on the wheels, or you could go buy tires and wheels as a package and make the swapping easier. Check out tirerack or some other online store to get some ideas.

We will get a second second set of rims and tires for winter. I'm debating between using the 18" rims for winter and buying 19" rims for summer or just buying another set of 18" rims. We have the regular dual motor Mode 3 coming. We are buying the car for commuting 20k miles per year, and probably should do the math on what that means for reduced efficiency and ride comfort through the summer if we buy aftermarket 19" (18" sound be a softer ride). I've always bought smaller rims for winter so the tire is narrower, but with the amount of power in this car when the pavement is clear, I'm thinking 17" might be too small.

@Mad Hungarian this topic is in your wheel house. What advice do you have about wheels before we start talking about rubber?
 

m3_4_wifey

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#4
@m3_4_wifey My brother has a separate set of wheels for winter. I agree its easier to switch them every winter. I'm curious to see what @Mad Hungarian has to say about wheel sizes. I'm curious as to which wheel size is better for winter.
One thing I didn't about until just now is that there might not be enough clearance to go down from 18" to 17" because of the brakes and rotors. If that were the case, than the decision is to have the same wheel size for winter and summer or do 18" for winter and 19" for summer.
 

m3_4_wifey

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#5
One thing I didn't about until just now is that there might not be enough clearance to go down from 18" to 17" because of the brakes and rotors. If that were the case, than the decision is to have the same wheel size for winter and summer or do 18" for winter and 19" for summer.
Answered one of the questions if you trust tirerack.com. They only show 18", 19", or 20" as options. No 17".
 

garsh

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#6
I wanted to purchase winter tires that are similar to the ones my brother's 2018 Honda Accord has. I want to pair them up with some rims I like at Canadian Tire. Is this possible? Are there any restrictions?
Buy the wheels you want first. Make sure you get a set that fit a Model 3.

Once you have the wheels, then you can figure out which sizes of the particular model of tire you want will fit on that rim. This will be based on the wheel diameter, and the wheel width.
 

Mad Hungarian

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#7
@m3_4_wifey My brother has a separate set of wheels for winter. I agree its easier to switch them every winter. I'm curious to see what @Mad Hungarian has to say about wheel sizes. I'm curious as to which wheel size is better for winter.
Glad to help.
The discussion so far is correct. We 3D mapped the standard brakes on Model 3 and due to the shape of the rear brake calipers it's nearly impossible to get a 17" wheel to fit, so 18" is the minimum. The specifications you need to respect are as follows:

Width: 8.0" or 8.5"
P.C.D.
(bolt pattern): 5x114.3 mm
Center bore
(the hole in the middle of the wheel): 64.1 mm. Note many aftermarket wheels have a larger bore size that must be reduced with a centering ring, if you buy that type make sure you get the correct rings to go with them.
Offset: +35 mm to +40 mm
Load Capacity: minimum 630 kg / 1384 lbs
Lug seat: 60 degree conical.
Be EXTREMELY careful about this. Because the Model 3's wheel specs are pretty much identical to those of most Honda/Acura vehicles, you may get some unscrupulous folks trying to sell you wheels made to Honda/Acura specs. The problem is that Honda and Acura vehicles use what's called Spherical or Ball seat lug nuts and all their OE wheels as well as many aftermarket ones designed specifically for them will have that type of seat. Your conical Tesla lug nuts will NOT fit correctly in the Ball type seat and will almost certainly come loose. Here's a diagram to better illustrate the problem:

upload_2018-8-24_11-19-30-png.13574




 

garsh

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Lug seat: 60 degree conical. Be EXTREMELY careful about this. Because the Model 3's wheel specs are pretty much identical to those of most Honda/Acura vehicles, you may get some unscrupulous folks trying to sell you wheels made to Honda/Acura specs. The problem is that Honda and Acura vehicles use what's called Spherical or Ball seat lug nuts and all their OE wheels as well as many aftermarket ones designed specifically for them will have that type of seat. Your conical Tesla lug nuts will NOT fit correctly in the Ball type seat and will almost certainly come loose.
If you also get Honda lug nuts to match the Honda wheels, are there any other issues with using Honda wheels?
 

m3_4_wifey

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#9
Glad to help.
The discussion so far is correct. We 3D mapped the standard brakes on Model 3 and due to the shape of the rear brake calipers it's nearly impossible to get a 17" wheel to fit, so 18" is the minimum. The specifications you need to respect are as follows:

Width: 8.0" or 8.5"
P.C.D.
(bolt pattern): 5x114.3 mm
Center bore
(the hole in the middle of the wheel): 64.1 mm. Note many aftermarket wheels have a larger bore size that must be reduced with a centering ring, if you buy that type make sure you get the correct rings to go with them.
Offset: +35 mm to +40 mm
Load Capacity: minimum 630 kg / 1384 lbs
Lug seat: 60 degree conical.
Be EXTREMELY careful about this. Because the Model 3's wheel specs are pretty much identical to those of most Honda/Acura vehicles, you may get some unscrupulous folks trying to sell you wheels made to Honda/Acura specs. The problem is that Honda and Acura vehicles use what's called Spherical or Ball seat lug nuts and all their OE wheels as well as many aftermarket ones designed specifically for them will have that type of seat. Your conical Tesla lug nuts will NOT fit correctly in the Ball type seat and will almost certainly come loose. Here's a diagram to better illustrate the problem:

View attachment 13574


Thanks for the detail information Ian. I'm assuming you are going to use the 19" that come with the car for the winter and get aftermarket 20" for the summer?

I think you mentioned it before in the podcast that what you will get with the larger wheel size is better handling. Given that the tire width on the 18 and 19's are the same (same contact area to the road), the 0-60 times won't improve with the 19's unless the rubber has a lower treadwear grade. Correct?

I wonder how much of improvement you can get on acceleration if you lower the pressure of the 18" tires by say 5 psi.
 

GetYourWheels

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#10
If you also get Honda lug nuts to match the Honda wheels, are there any other issues with using Honda wheels?
Most honda uses M12x1.5 so they won't work since the Tesla has a M14x1.5

You can get a M14 x 1.5 lug nut with a ball seat if you do plan on using honda acura wheels for winter setups. I personally love the 2004 - 2008 Acura TL 18" aspec wheels coming in at 18x8.5 +45.
 

Mad Hungarian

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#11
If you also get Honda lug nuts to match the Honda wheels, are there any other issues with using Honda wheels?
Hmmm in the case of OE Honda/Acura you cannot use OE Honda/Acura 14x1.5 mm nuts, but you CAN use rare aftermarket 14x1.5mm ball seat nuts designed for the conversion.
This is because Honda has two different radii seats on their wheels and each is married to a P.C.D and lug size, as follows:

- All 5x114.3 vehicles have 12x1.5 mm nuts with R12 ball seats.
- All 5x120 vehicles have 14x1.5 mm nuts with R14 ball seats (except Ridgeline, because flat).

If we try to use the 14x1.5 mm nuts from any of the 5x120 vehicles, we will find that the R14 ball is too large to fit in the 5x114.3 wheel's R12 seat. Like so:

upload_2018-8-24_14-58-53-png.13603

R14 nut in R12 seat VS R12 nut in R12 seat

So you can do it, but you need to find 14x1.5 mm nuts that have an R12 seat.

You also need to make sure the wheel offset isn't too high, a lot of Hondas have wheels in the +45 to +60 range. I wouldn't go higher than +45.
 
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Mad Hungarian

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#12
Thanks for the detail information Ian. I'm assuming you are going to use the 19" that come with the car for the winter and get aftermarket 20" for the summer?

I think you mentioned it before in the podcast that what you will get with the larger wheel size is better handling. Given that the tire width on the 18 and 19's are the same (same contact area to the road), the 0-60 times won't improve with the 19's unless the rubber has a lower treadwear grade. Correct?

I wonder how much of improvement you can get on acceleration if you lower the pressure of the 18" tires by say 5 psi.
You know I suffer from the embarrassment/luxury of choice around here, so I still haven't 100% made up my mind!
But since we're all getting so completely OCD about beating the factory 0-60 times I'm leaning strongly towards an 18x9.0/18x10.0 staggered setup with 235/45R18 and 265/40R18. Exact tire model is still up in the air.

Now as for the pressure, it's very interesting you bring that up as I have a funny feeling that might be key to unlocking more traction, especially as the OE pressures are somewhat higher than they need to be to cover the axle loads in the interest of range. But you can be sure I will be testing that.
 

m3_4_wifey

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#13
You know I suffer from the embarrassment/luxury of choice around here, so I still haven't 100% made up my mind!
But since we're all getting so completely OCD about beating the factory 0-60 times I'm leaning strongly towards an 18x9.0/18x10.0 staggered setup with 235/45R18 and 265/40R18. Exact tire model is still up in the air.

Now as for the pressure, it's very interesting you bring that up as I have a funny feeling that might be key to unlocking more traction, especially as the OE pressures are somewhat higher than they need to be to cover the axle loads in the interest of range. But you can be sure I will be testing that.
I trust that you will find the optimized solution to break the record at near sea level!

I’m still trying to understand the drop in range going from 18” to 19” wheels. If the width of the wheel is the same, it seems to boil down to the worse aerodynamics at the wheel rim or the added weight of the wheel. Am I missing something in this equation?

If the aero caps really help, why didn’t Tesla make aero caps for the 19”? Have the look around town and then slap them on for the road trip.
 

Mad Hungarian

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#14
I trust that you will find the optimized solution to break the record at near sea level!

I’m still trying to understand the drop in range going from 18” to 19” wheels. If the width of the wheel is the same, it seems to boil down to the worse aerodynamics at the wheel rim or the added weight of the wheel. Am I missing something in this equation?

If the aero caps really help, why didn’t Tesla make aero caps for the 19”? Have the look around town and then slap them on for the road trip.
The potential loss depends on the driving condition.
Simplest way I can break it down is as follows:

Tire rolling resistance: Matters all the time.
Wheel/Tire aerodynamics: Matters only at high speeds.
Wheel/Tire weight: Matters any time you're accelerating, so mostly in stop/start city driving but can also affect highway range if you have to vary speed significantly/often. Regen mitigates this a bit by recouping a little of the heavier wheels' inertia, but it never gets back everything (otherwise we'd have finally cracked the Perpetual Motion Machine :)).

So even if the tire width and potentially the rolling resistance and aero drag characteristics of the 18" amd 19" tires are the same, the 18" wheels with aero caps win in every driving condition because they're both lighter AND more aerodynamic.
And you're right, Tesla could very well have used the same system for the 19" wheel, but I have a feeling Franz really wanted a signature wheel design that perfectly fit his vision for the total Model 3 look and I think the 19" Sport wheel is it. For lots of folks, giving up 4% highway range to have that look is no big deal.
 
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#15
Starting to look into 18" rims for winter tires for Model 3. It seems that that stock rims are 8.5" wide and that may contribute to the curb rash issue with the Model 3. Is there any downside in going to a 8" rim width? It seems that most of the available tire options can be mounted on either width rim and it might reduce the likelihood of curb rash. Comments?
 

kendthomp

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#16
I noticed that if you order the 20" wheels from Tesla, they come with modified rear suspension adjustments. Does this preclude using the 19" with winter tires?
 

Mad Hungarian

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#17
Starting to look into 18" rims for winter tires for Model 3. It seems that that stock rims are 8.5" wide and that may contribute to the curb rash issue with the Model 3. Is there any downside in going to a 8" rim width? It seems that most of the available tire options can be mounted on either width rim and it might reduce the likelihood of curb rash. Comments?
The only potential downside I can see would be:

1. A very minor loss of dry road cornering performance and steering response, which frankly isn't a huge priority in winter conditions, and in fact it still wouldn't have nearly the same effect in this regard as the switch to a winter tire design in the first place as the ones that are best in serious snow and ice conditions are somewhat soft in response anyway.

2. Possibly a slight loss of range due to increased hysteresis, the prime factor in a tire's rolling resistance. This would be because the narrower wheel won't "pre-tension" the sidewall as much as the wider one will and as a result will allow the sidewall to deform more under load and soak up a bit more energy. Again though, we're kinda splitting hairs as this would be quite minor compared to losses incurred by the switch to a winter type tire, whose tall squishy tread blocks and very soft compound would have far more effect.

So short answer: I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep going to the 8.0" for winter.
As a bonus you'll get better rim protection, and for those who want ultimate snow performance over everything else it also allows the use of a 225/50R18 (which is not permitted on the 8.5").
 
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