20,000 miles and more smiles to go

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tencate

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#1
Max hit 20,000 miles today. I just put a new set of snow tires on him in anticipation of a snowy winter ahead. Michelin X-ice on 18 inch factory wheels. He's still as solid a car as when we got him, although the driver's seat is a bit shinier than the passenger seat, likely because of my jeans polishing the fabric a bit every time I sit down to drive. Got Max in mid-January, driven in snow and most every kind of weather since then (including a handful of trips through the Mojave), lots of long trips too. I love this car. 221 Wh/mi overall. We'll see how much of a hit I take with the new snow tires.

20kodometer-jpg.15647
 

tencate

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#4
What’s your full battery range after 20k miles?
? I hardly ever fully charge the battery, never any need to, even on this last trip to Sacramento. But I can easily charge up beyond 290 miles as indicated on the range display. I don't remember the last time I fully charged it actually. But, if you do the math, battery capacity (75000 Wh) divided by my overall average "burn rate" of 221 Wh/mi gives my range at about 340 miles overall. Efficiency gets better as the tires wear, noticeably on the 18 inch factory Michelins.
 
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#5
Glad to hear you can still get to 290 even without fully charging. I’m at around 1500 miles and a 90% charge brings to me 274 miles. I know the degradation in full battery capacity often happens in the first few months so wanted to know how someone with a lot of miles is doing.
 

tencate

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#6
Glad to hear you can still get to 290 even without fully charging.
I don't remember what Max was like when new but I do recall charging him up completely once before a long trip and saw 300+ something on the miles range indication. But that was AFTER he'd been driven from LA to New Mexico once already. Back then, the software warned you against charging all the way up to the max, not sure if it still does that or not? Haven't tried! What's your efficiency number for those first 1500 miles? Are you keeping a "total" average?
 
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#7
I don't remember what Max was like when new but I do recall charging him up completely once before a long trip and saw 300+ something on the miles range indication. But that was AFTER he'd been driven from LA to New Mexico once already. Back then, the software warned you against charging all the way up to the max, not sure if it still does that or not? Haven't tried! What's your efficiency number for those first 1500 miles? Are you keeping a "total" average?
I'm getting about 245 wh/mile; charging to 90% once a week and rarely going below 50%. Most of my driving is local. Stop and go and below 45mph. I'm keeping trip A as my lifetime average.

When I went on a road trip from Boston to Bangor Maine, it got into the low 200s. I definitely saw an decrease in efficiency going from 65mph to 75mph; and the drip back also saw higher wh/mile because it was much hotter and the A/C was running more.
 

PNWmisty

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#8
? But, if you do the math, battery capacity (75000 Wh) divided by my overall average "burn rate" of 221 Wh/mi gives my range at about 340 miles overall. Efficiency gets better as the tires wear, noticeably on the 18 inch factory Michelins.
Hey! That's exactly where our Model 3 is sitting after 5500 miles! We were up around 226 Wh/mi but we put the Aero wheel covers back on and it gradually dropped back to 221 Wh/mi.
 

2pix

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#9
19" pulling out 264 Wh/mi after just crossing 5k miles this weekend. There's a lot of spaceship take offs and 80 mph driving in that 5k. I could probably get better efficiency but amp pedal (as I call it) is really addictive. Got it end of July so looks like I'm tracking on your mileage projection, good to hear model 3 is holding up like a champ.
 

garsh

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#10
19" pulling out 264 Wh/mi after just crossing 5k miles this weekend.
I'm only averaging about 283 Wh/mi in my Performance with 20s.

I really should try to hypermile it at some point like I often did with my Leaf, but with this big battery, I just never feel the need to do such a thing. :cool:
 

PNWmisty

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#11
.
I really should try to hypermile it at some point like I often did with my Leaf, but with this big battery, I just never feel the need to do such a thing. :cool:
I don't hypermile (except as an occasional experiment for fun) but I do have an ingrained desire of efficiency built into the way I think and behave. This comes from a life of maximizing productivity such that it improved my life. When doing a job/tasks/daily living, I plan ahead. If I need to put away my multi-meter in the garage, I grab everything in sight that also belongs in the garage. If I'm cooking and I need a bit of butter from the fridge, I visualize the rest of the meal and grab all the other ingredients I can hold at the same time.

How does this transfer to the way I drive? I look ahead and, if I see I'm going to have to slow down, I don't step on the go-pedal. If I'm already up to speed when I see the slowdown, I brake a little early to delay my arrival to the stopped traffic. Often, it's starting to move just as I arrive and I don't have to slow down further so my momentum is not wasted. Yes, we have regen braking but it only recovers about half of what it took to reach that initial speed. On the other hand, if I see a "pregnant" green light ahead and a bunch of clear pavement, I punch it early and hard. Chances are I can coast through it without having to wait through the cycle.

Do I drive 45 mph in the right lane because it will save me energy/money? No, because that won't make my life better. I drive at whatever speed I want to. If I have 60 miles to go, traffic is light, and I want to save 15 minutes, I might drive 80 mph. Typically though, I'll just leave 15 minutes sooner so I can relax on the way, listen to some music and go with the flow. Because that's more fun. I've noticed Interstate traffic tends to bunch up in "packs". I like to break free of the pack into a lonely section and set my cruise speed such that I will stay centered in the "lonely" section as long as possible. Eventually, faster drivers will break through the pack behind and filter past me or I will come across laggards dropping out of the pack in front of me. I would achieve higher efficiency by staying in the pack (due to draft effects of being in a pack) but that would not improve my life or be more relaxing.

If I'm in "pole position" at a red light on a State highway, I never hesitate to floor it until I reach my desired cruising speed and instantly back off. Now that I have a P3D, that only takes about 3.5 seconds. This is not quite as efficient as accelerating more normally but it does NOT kill the Wh/mi number as one would expect! I can't emphasize this enough (it's not the stomping on it that kills economy, it's the hitting of the brakes or the regen). And it's amazing how far ahead of the pack it puts you. Here's the deal: It's actually more efficient to floor it and cruise along at 60 mph than it is to accelerate more slowly and have to go 65 or 70 to catch up to where I would have been if I just floored it off the green light.

Another innate driving habit I have is to carry more speed through corners. I learned to conserve momentum when my first job in high school was being an after-school delivery boy in a 48 HP 1977 diesel VW Rabbit. If you haven't driven one of those ancient, smoke belching machines you don't know how slow it really was! Diesel torque? Nope! If you shifted the four-on-the-floor transmission before redline, you were essentially hosed. It didn't really have a redline, power simply fell off. You had to take it to that point before shifting or you would be in even weaker power at lower rpm's. It went 0-60 in about 21.8 seconds! The first rule of thumb was always slow down well in advance for red lights (so you didn't have to come to a complete stop) and do not slow down for corners! Not even a little bit. Momentum management was the most important skill to have. It probably didn't help that my boss wanted me to fuel it from his home heating oil tank to avoid the road tax! If you tend to carry more speed through corners, you will have a lower Wh/mi consumption than someone who drives conservatively.
 

Li3m

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#12
.

I don't hypermile (except as an occasional experiment for fun) but I do have an ingrained desire of efficiency built into the way I think and behave. This comes from a life of maximizing productivity such that it improved my life. When doing a job/tasks/daily living, I plan ahead. If I need to put away my multi-meter in the garage, I grab everything in sight that also belongs in the garage. If I'm cooking and I need a bit of butter from the fridge, I visualize the rest of the meal and grab all the other ingredients I can hold at the same time.

How does this transfer to the way I drive? I look ahead and, if I see I'm going to have to slow down, I don't step on the go-pedal. If I'm already up to speed when I see the slowdown, I brake a little early to delay my arrival to the stopped traffic. Often, it's starting to move just as I arrive and I don't have to slow down further so my momentum is not wasted. Yes, we have regen braking but it only recovers about half of what it took to reach that initial speed. On the other hand, if I see a "pregnant" green light ahead and a bunch of clear pavement, I punch it early and hard. Chances are I can coast through it without having to wait through the cycle.

Do I drive 45 mph in the right lane because it will save me energy/money? No, because that won't make my life better. I drive at whatever speed I want to. If I have 60 miles to go, traffic is light, and I want to save 15 minutes, I might drive 80 mph. Typically though, I'll just leave 15 minutes sooner so I can relax on the way, listen to some music and go with the flow. Because that's more fun. I've noticed Interstate traffic tends to bunch up in "packs". I like to break free of the pack into a lonely section and set my cruise speed such that I will stay centered in the "lonely" section as long as possible. Eventually, faster drivers will break through the pack behind and filter past me or I will come across laggards dropping out of the pack in front of me. I would achieve higher efficiency by staying in the pack (due to draft effects of being in a pack) but that would not improve my life or be more relaxing.

If I'm in "pole position" at a red light on a State highway, I never hesitate to floor it until I reach my desired cruising speed and instantly back off. Now that I have a P3D, that only takes about 3.5 seconds. This is not quite as efficient as accelerating more normally but it does NOT kill the Wh/mi number as one would expect! I can't emphasize this enough (it's not the stomping on it that kills economy, it's the hitting of the brakes or the regen). And it's amazing how far ahead of the pack it puts you. Here's the deal: It's actually more efficient to floor it and cruise along at 60 mph than it is to accelerate more slowly and have to go 65 or 70 to catch up to where I would have been if I just floored it off the green light.

Another innate driving habit I have is to carry more speed through corners. I learned to conserve momentum when my first job in high school was being an after-school delivery boy in a 48 HP 1977 diesel VW Rabbit. If you haven't driven one of those ancient, smoke belching machines you don't know how slow it really was! Diesel torque? Nope! If you shifted the four-on-the-floor transmission before redline, you were essentially hosed. It didn't really have a redline, power simply fell off. You had to take it to that point before shifting or you would be in even weaker power at lower rpm's. It went 0-60 in about 21.8 seconds! The first rule of thumb was always slow down well in advance for red lights (so you didn't have to come to a complete stop) and do not slow down for corners! Not even a little bit. Momentum management was the most important skill to have. It probably didn't help that my boss wanted me to fuel it from his home heating oil tank to avoid the road tax! If you tend to carry more speed through corners, you will have a lower Wh/mi consumption than someone who drives conservatively.
What's your consumption?

I always try to cruise as much as possible too because I like smooth driving. I missed my stick-shift 1985 Toyota Supra. I never accelerate hard, and would put it in neutral to roll to a stop - if possible. It had 115,000mi still with the original brake pads when I sold it! Oh yes. My friends would say "why did you get the Supra for?". But that's just... me. LOL.

When I got the 4Runner, I averaged 24-25mi/gal as compared to the rated 19city/22hwy. With my Prius (2013 3rd gen), I started out at 87mpg (thanks to the Los Angeles freeway traffic!) It's now around 60mpg with my son's driving. Now with my Model 3, I'm averaging 187Wh/mi in 4600mi so far. Yes. Again. Thanks to LA traffic, and "Standard" regen.

With that said, I think there's some merit in your driving. In EAP mode, the Model 3 accelerates hard, too. Tesla engineers know more about their car then me. So maybe that's the best way to conserve energy? It regens hard in that mode so I don't like the jerkiness of EAP ("Chill" doesn't seem to help.)

Happy cruising...
 

PNWmisty

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#13
What's your consumption?
Between me and my wife, we have 5500 miles at 221 Wh/mile. But neither of us really hypermile or try to conserve climate control consumption. My Performance Model 3 only has 200 miles on it with plenty of hard launches and I think it's around 235 Wh/mi. and I'm sure it will be getting worse from there because this is my ski car and winter is ready to set in. But I'm relieved that it's nearly as efficient as our RWD

Now with my Model 3, I'm averaging 187Wh/mi in 4600mi so far. Yes. Again. Thanks to LA traffic, and "Standard" regen.
That's really good!

With that said, I think there's some merit in your driving. In EAP mode, the Model 3 accelerates hard, too. Tesla engineers know more about their car then me. So maybe that's the best way to conserve energy?.
I think in a RWD Model 3 a firm acceleration using about half throttle is just as efficient as gentle acceleration and full throttle acceleration is not too far behind. The inefficiency of full throttle acceleration probably has more to do with the energy wasted as heat when the tires are scuffing as they will do under hard acceleration vs. inefficiency caused by being in a much less efficient portion of the efficiency torque curve of the motor. An AWD will probably do better with acceleration gentle enough that the more inefficient front motor doesn't need to kick on. I imagine Tesla engineers just wanted the EAP to work well and not mess up the normal flow of traffic, that's why it's a little aggressive at times, not for efficiency reasons.

If the goal is to get there quickly AND efficiently, then yes, accelerate hard and level off before you reach speeds that are aerodynamically inefficient.
 

garsh

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#14
I think in a RWD Model 3 a firm acceleration using about half throttle is just as efficient as gentle acceleration and full throttle acceleration is not too far behind.
I've read that too (that rate of acceleration up to a speed doesn't change the total efficiency much, unlike a combustion vehicle). I haven't actually seen a study performed to confirm that. It would be nice to get some sort of scientific confirmation.
 

PNWmisty

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#15
I've read that too (that rate of acceleration up to a speed doesn't change the total efficiency much, unlike a combustion vehicle). I haven't actually seen a study performed to confirm that. It would be nice to get some sort of scientific confirmation.
It's the kind of thing that would be very hard to test because of the dynamic nature of acceleration. When you accelerate to a given speed more quickly, you travel less distance to get to that speed. So, would the test be: (1) a series of fast and slow accelerations to a given speed with the fast accelerations followed by a period of steady state cruising to the same distance covered by the slow accelerations to the target speed? Or, would the slow accelerations be to a higher speed so both tests (fast and slow) ended up covering the same distance in the same amount of time?

In the latter case, I can guarantee the fast accelerations would be more efficient by a good margin. For this comparison to really make sense, the test procedure would need to include a coast down of the car that accelerated more slowly to a higher speed so that the ending speed in both tests was the same. In the former case, efficiency would be much more similar with probably the slow acceleration having a very tiny edge.

Tesla has the rpm/torque/efficiency graphs for the electric motors, it would be nice if they would publish them. This would also help fine-tune the development of apps that predict trip energy consumption under different conditions (headwinds, different speeds, hills, etc.).