# Tesla is raising the price of its 'full self-driving' package by $1,000



## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

Update from Elon said FSD increasing by $1000 in August in conjunction with enhanced summon release finally.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1151173277705891841


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## Madmolecule (Oct 8, 2018)

Tesla is raising the price of its 'full self-driving' package by $1,000

It looks like in early August


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

FSD is only $6K/US now. Stated it includes new computer.


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## Jarettp (Dec 1, 2018)

Given the sale that went on earlier this year, I'll pay no more than $2k to update from EAP to FSD and I'm fine never having FSD on this car if it comes to it. Elon is out of his mind if he thinks I'm paying more than I paid for EAP to extend that functionality to stop lights and stop signs and is going to get a big dose of reality when the other car makers start coming out with their own solutions for far less in a few years.


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## TheeCatzMeow (Feb 8, 2019)

Jarettp said:


> Given the sale that went on earlier this year, I'll pay no more than $2k to update from EAP to FSD and I'm fine never having FSD on this car if it comes to it. Elon is out of his mind if he thinks I'm paying more than I paid for EAP to extend that functionality to stop lights and stop signs and is going to get a big dose of reality when the other car makers start coming out with their own solutions for far less in a few years.


A few years is a long time. 
PS: They are more than a few years behind.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Jarettp said:


> Given the sale that went on earlier this year, I'll pay no more than $2k to update from EAP to FSD and I'm fine never having FSD on this car if it comes to it. Elon is out of his mind if he thinks I'm paying more than I paid for EAP to extend that functionality to stop lights and stop signs and is going to get a big dose of reality when the other car makers start coming out with their own solutions for far less in a few years.


They're a few years in matching basic functionality (battery/motor). At the rate they're going in those regards, they may have AP functionality in 5 years, FSD likely a decade after Tesla comes out with it.


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## Jarettp (Dec 1, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> They're a few years in matching basic functionality (battery/motor). At the rate they're going in those regards, they may have AP functionality in 5 years, FSD likely a decade after Tesla comes out with it.


Elon thinks he will be able to sell the Model 3 for $100k+ long term with FSD. All I'm saying is that he's insane. I'm not paying a dime more than $2k to go from EAP to FSD and will not be buying a $100k version of this car when the time comes for my next upgrade. If his main goal is to become the next Waymo and keep every car they produce then he's wasting time on building fast luxury vehicles. He needs to leave the current consumer Teslas alone and branch off a commercial division or he's going to be making a serious error.


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## TheeCatzMeow (Feb 8, 2019)

Jarettp said:


> Elon thinks he will be able to sell the Model 3 for $100k+ long term with FSD. All I'm saying is that he's insane. I'm not paying a dime more than $2k to go from EAP to FSD and will not be buying a $100k version of this car when the time comes for my next upgrade. If his main goal is to become the next Waymo and keep every car they produce then he's wasting time on building fast luxury vehicles. He needs to leave the current consumer Teslas alone and branch off a commercial division or he's going to be making a serious error.


I have no reason to defend Elon, I'm just saying they've had a plan and without the plan there is little to no chance you'd have a Model 3 right now.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

Jarettp said:


> Elon thinks he will be able to sell the Model 3 for $100k+ long term with FSD.


you are confusing his comment about the value of a FSD RoboTaxi with the future pricing of a new Tesla.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Jarettp said:


> Elon thinks he will be able to sell the Model 3 for $100k+ long term with FSD. All I'm saying is that he's insane. I'm not paying a dime more than $2k to go from EAP to FSD and will not be buying a $100k version of this car when the time comes for my next upgrade. If his main goal is to become the next Waymo and keep every car they produce then he's wasting time on building fast luxury vehicles. He needs to leave the current consumer Teslas alone and branch off a commercial division or he's going to be making a serious error.


I'd take anything he says with a huge slab of salt. But the point is if you want FSD within the next decade it'll be through Tesla only. As for pricing, I can see them dropping the cost of upgrades towards end of year if sales aren't where they're ant them to be. Pricing will be dictated by the market, but $2k to go from EAP to FSD seems unreasonable. Being able to autonomously navigate local traffic where a lot of time is wasted for only $2k seems like a steal.


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

I really hate the idea of pricing the FSD package based on future Full Self Driving. Right now FSD has zero value beyond speculation that it might have value someday. The EAP features in the FSD package have lots of value however and they should be sold based on the current features and maybe a little more for future updates. But they could just price it based on current features and then charge for new features as they come out based on the value of those features. FSD is especially hard to value. I've asked people I know what would they pay for a FSD feature on their car. The responses are all over the place. First of all, we don't know how well it works when it comes out assuming it does. Then it's hard to imagine all the ways it would change our life since we've never experienced it. I call my Tesla Tivo because explaining EVs reminds me of when Tivo came out. The early adopters who had Tivo absolutely loved it. But when they told people how great it was, people couldn't get past the fact they could already record whatever they wanted on their VCR. They weren't going to pay more and that monthly fee was out of the question. FSD is going to be similar. People will say I'm not going to pay more, I like driving. I've already heard it. Then they complain about having to take off work to shuttle their kids around. Competition will also drive the price down but who knows where the competition will be. It will take time before people properly value it. Bundling FSD with EAP makes it worse for people that just want EAP and don't want to pre-order features they have no idea how well they will work with no release date.


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## 350VDC (May 20, 2018)

Jarettp said:


> I'll pay no more than $2k to update from EAP to FSD


Agreed, especially when Tesla offers 10K less than Carmax for a trade-In for a Model 3, on a new Model 3. My early VIN has EAP which includes Summon and NOA. Now these features are part of FSD. I fully expect them to try and remove these from early VIN's at some point to try and choke more money.


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## VoltageDrop (Sep 16, 2018)

I decided not to go with FSD at the time of purchase........the main reason being that the legislation that will be needed to let this fly will likely take -Y-E-A-R-S- to pass.....(especially with our VERY slow moving government system).......to pay about 6 grand now (7 grand in a month) to have the "possibility" of the car driving me around "sometime in the future" is not something I would do....would rather invest the money elsewhere.......I too am in the camp of no more than $2K over the $5K I already paid for EAP....... (besides I have FREE FSD at my beck and call right now!!!! ......that is.....my newly licensed son....who will do anything to drive around.....hmmm......I remember those days too


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

350VDC said:


> Agreed, especially when Tesla offers 10K less than Carmax for a trade-In for a Model 3, on a new Model 3. My early VIN has EAP which includes Summon and NOA. Now these features are part of FSD. I fully expect them to try and remove these from early VIN's at some point to try and choke more money.


I think it will go the other way.

My sense of Elon is that he really is driven by the idea that he wants everyone to have all the cool stuff he makes, one way or another. Not to make money, but because he believes in what he's doing. But then he also needs to make enough money to keep everything afloat.

So what he tends to do is squeeze everyone for as much money as he can get from them, and then once he's down to the people who won't pay that much, he gives away the goodies for free to the holdouts.

All the reconfigurations of pricing for the cars and their options makes it confusing to track, but notice that everyone with a new Tesla gets basic AP now, and everyone gets the FSD chip (even if they don't get all the FSD features). And yet the prices of the cars did not go up accordingly--in fact, for some versions, prices went down (sometimes up and sometimes down, but the net is down). He wants people to have AP. He wants people to have FSD. He'll take money if he can get it from you. But in the long run he wants those features to be universal.

So my guess is that he'll keep coming up with ways to try to scare people in to paying money now for features that don't exist and then, once the features do exist for a little while, he'll cut the prices and eventually maybe even make them standard. The "appreciating asset" thing is some combination of a fantasy and a con--it almost has the flavor of a pyramid scheme.

I like Teslas, and I like the way the technology keeps pushing forward. And I think Elon has done pretty well delivering on the technology side, even if it's sometimes on "Elon time." But his pricing announcements and predictions have a much worse track record, and always seem designed to extract money from those willing to pay. Heck, do you remember what the original roll-out plan was going to be for Model 3s? It bore no resemblance at all to what eventually ended up happening.


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

I think people should just look at what you get right now and decide if it's worth it. Don't buy it thinking something down the road is going to make it worth it. Whatever you're expecting may not happen and if it does it probably won't meet your expectations at least at first. There are people on this forum saying TACC is unusable due to phantom braking. I disagree but you can read forums/reviews about people's experience with it, watch youtube videos of it in action, and test drive it. None of that is available for any future features except a little has leaked on enhanced summon. I guarantee when that comes out some will like it and some will complain. And it's already much later than they said it would come out. The same will happen for city driving features and eventually FSD. They will be late and not up to everyone's standards. I don't think HW3 is going to result in a step function of performance like some believe either. When they roll out city driving it will only be on HW3 but that isn't going to be perfect when it comes out and I don't think many people will want to use it very much. I got FSD because I want to beta test basically. I think it's historic and fascinating. I want to watch the sausage being made. Will my car ever drive me around while I sleep? Dunno. If you want to beta test or donate money to Tesla, then get it.


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## PA-pilot (Jul 19, 2016)

Silly question as I have not been tracking the price of FSD lately. I have EAP on both my cars and took advantage of the $2k pricing for my Model 3. My wife doesn't drive much so we passed for her X. Based on my Tesla account is $6k correct for adding FSD to an EAP equipped vehicle? It seems awfully high....


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

We are definitely in a period of transition, Tesla will alter the price where they need it to keep the cash rolling in. Remember what the early buyers of the Model S paid for their cars? Most of them paid way more than what the true value of the car might have been worth and they paid for EAP and FSD that they know they'll never get now. They did it knowing based on faith that it might happen some day and they were getting the company off the ground and to have enough money to launch the next model - the 3.

So we are at the next point, no one makes you buy FSD, and at times it is priced stupidly high and sometimes it is a steal. Tesla has proven they will alter the price based on what people will pay. It doesn't matter what I think is fair or anyone else, it will change again. It truly is a gamble to some degree.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

PA-pilot said:


> Silly question as I have not been tracking the price of FSD lately. I have EAP on both my cars and took advantage of the $2k pricing for my Model 3. My wife doesn't drive much so we passed for her X. Based on my Tesla account is $6k correct for adding FSD to an EAP equipped vehicle? It seems awfully high....


Sounds correct. Originally, they quoted it as $4000 at the time of purchase and $5000 after purchase. Then with the $2k 'sale' this spring, they advised it would be increasing to $6000 (and now $7000 next month).


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## Jarettp (Dec 1, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> I'd take anything he says with a huge slab of salt. But the point is if you want FSD within the next decade it'll be through Tesla only. As for pricing, I can see them dropping the cost of upgrades towards end of year if sales aren't where they're ant them to be. Pricing will be dictated by the market, but $2k to go from EAP to FSD seems unreasonable. Being able to autonomously navigate local traffic where a lot of time is wasted for only $2k seems like a steal.


My car can already do 90% of my local driving. Just can't turn on/off streets and make stops at lights and signs. It wouldn't be twice as useful to me to gain those things so why should I pay twice as much (or more) for them. Furthermore, why should anyone? Safe lane keeping solves most of my driving woes. And I suspect I'm not the only one who feels this way.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

Jarettp said:


> My car can already do 90% of my local driving. Just can't turn on/off streets and make stops at lights and signs. It wouldn't be twice as useful to me to gain those things so why should I pay twice as much (or more) for them. Furthermore, why should anyone? Safe lane keeping solves most of my driving woes. And I suspect I'm not the only one who feels this way.


then don't buy FSD if it isn't of value to you. nobody is forcing you to consider adding it.

this thread is about the upcoming price increase... not the debate of FSD's usefulness.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

I've got a poll up in another thread that asks what new feature/capability would make people want to upgrade to FSD...and it was mostly answered by people who already have FSD. I'd be curious for some of you who, like me, don't have FSD, to head over to that thread and chime in...


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Jarettp said:


> My car can already do 90% of my local driving. Just can't turn on/off streets and make stops at lights and signs. It wouldn't be twice as useful to me to gain those things so why should I pay twice as much (or more) for them. Furthermore, why should anyone? Safe lane keeping solves most of my driving woes. And I suspect I'm not the only one who feels this way.


It may not be twice as useful, but I'd bet it's 10x more difficult to safely stop/start at stop signs/lights. If a vehicle unexpectedly stopped at a green light or drove through a red one people's lives would be at risk. The amount of effort that needs to go into that compared to just maintaining a lane/speed is well beyond the small price increase. If you don't find value in it, don't buy it. Not rocket science (which I'd bet developing FSD is pretty close to )


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

DocScott said:


> I've got a poll up in another thread that asks what new feature/capability would make people want to upgrade to FSD...and it was mostly answered by people who already have FSD. I'd be curious for some of you who, like me, don't have FSD, to head over to that thread and chime in...


You should remove the "I already have FSD" option as no one actually has FSD. Some of us (including myself) PAID for FSD, but we definitely don't have it. And I wouldn't consider myself having it till I can navigate door to door (which is the option I voted for).


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## TrevP (Oct 20, 2015)

We do not condone Autopilot "defeat mechanisms" on this site. We have a lot of new Model 3 owners here who might get the wrong idea, it's bad enough the media jumps on Tesla accidents where Autopilot might possibly being involved. 

It's important that we all play by the rules otherwise regulators will find a way to "take away our toys" so to speak.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

Call me when it's actually

Full
and 
Self
and
Driving

Meaning, as I voted on in the poll, full NOA with ZERO user intervention and 100% Tesla liability for accidents when the system is in operation. 

Until then, I don't care what discussions are about the price. IMO just another way to scare people into buying it now and generate revenue. 

I will say that it was slick taking auto lane change out of AP and putting it in FSD. That would get me to buy FSD today, if my car got totaled or I were to buy another Tesla. Very smart Elon.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Needsdecaf said:


> Call me when it's actually
> 
> Full
> and
> ...


I saw that as a way to avoid people requesting refunds. At this point you're now paying for NoA, and will eventually get FSD at no charge when in actuality most of us that bought it did so for actual FSD as you described it.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

Needsdecaf said:


> full NOA with ZERO user intervention and 100% Tesla liability for accidents when the system is in operation.
> .


That's FSD, sure, but I don't think that's what "full NOA" would mean.

NOA stands for "navigate on autopilot." As Tesla described it when it was introduced, NOA is "an active guidance feature for Enhanced Autopilot that, with driver supervision, guides a car from a highway's on-ramp to off-ramp, including suggesting and making lane changes, navigating highway interchanges, and taking exits. It's designed to make finding and following the most efficient path to your destination even easier on the highway when Autopilot is in use." NOA may, in the future, be extended to more situations than just highways. "Full NOA" would presumably mean active guidance in all situations. But as long as it is called NOA it will presumably be about efficiency of navigation, _not_ hands-free, attention-free autonomy (i.e. L3 or higher).

I know I'm quibbling about nomenclature, and it's largely my fault for introducing a term that hadn't been used before "door-to-door NOA" without carefully describing what I meant by that, but it's pretty clear to me what Tesla means by NOA, but that term doesn't mean true FSD (even though it's part of the FSD package) and, I think, never will mean that. When full FSD comes along, they'll call it full FSD or invent a new term.


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## Jarettp (Dec 1, 2018)

MelindaV said:


> then don't buy FSD if it isn't of value to you. nobody is forcing you to consider adding it.
> 
> this thread is about the upcoming price increase... not the debate of FSD's usefulness.


I didn't say it didn't have value. I actually specifically put a value to it. $2000. The topic is about the price increase and I'm saying it's not warranted. How is that off topic?


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## Jarettp (Dec 1, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> It may not be twice as useful, but I'd bet it's 10x more difficult to safely stop/start at stop signs/lights. If a vehicle unexpectedly stopped at a green light or drove through a red one people's lives would be at risk. The amount of effort that needs to go into that compared to just maintaining a lane/speed is well beyond the small price increase. If you don't find value in it, don't buy it. Not rocket science (which I'd bet developing FSD is pretty close to )


Then why did he sell it for $2k a few months back? He only raised it after people who had already bought it complained about being ripped off. Don't get me wrong, I want FSD. I'm just voicing my displeasure at where the pricing is going for it.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

DocScott said:


> That's FSD, sure, but I don't think that's what "full NOA" would mean.
> 
> NOA stands for "navigate on autopilot." As Tesla described it when it was introduced, NOA is "an active guidance feature for Enhanced Autopilot that, with driver supervision, guides a car from a highway's on-ramp to off-ramp, including suggesting and making lane changes, navigating highway interchanges, and taking exits. It's designed to make finding and following the most efficient path to your destination even easier on the highway when Autopilot is in use." NOA may, in the future, be extended to more situations than just highways. "Full NOA" would presumably mean active guidance in all situations. But as long as it is called NOA it will presumably be about efficiency of navigation, _not_ hands-free, attention-free autonomy (i.e. L3 or higher).
> 
> I know I'm quibbling about nomenclature, and it's largely my fault for introducing a term that hadn't been used before "door-to-door NOA" without carefully describing what I meant by that, but it's pretty clear to me what Tesla means by NOA, but that term doesn't mean true FSD (even though it's part of the FSD package) and, I think, never will mean that. When full FSD comes along, they'll call it full FSD or invent a new term.


Yes, quibbling. Full self driving means I put in a destination and arrive there with doing nothing. That's what I am referring to.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Jarettp said:


> Then why did he sell it for $2k a few months back? He only raised it after people who had already bought it complained about being ripped off. Don't get me wrong, I want FSD. I'm just voicing my displeasure at where the pricing is going for it.


Costs for R&D for FSD have gone up so price will go up. Though demand will also dictate future pricing. Why did Ludicrous mode cost $20k and now it's free? I'd bet most of the R&D for that has been recouped and (even more likely) stagnating sales of the S/X warranted


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## Jarettp (Dec 1, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> Costs for R&D for FSD have gone up so price will go up. Though demand will also dictate future pricing. Why did Ludicrous mode cost $20k and now it's free? I'd bet most of the R&D for that has been recouped and (even more likely) stagnating sales of the S/X warranted


Even more reason to wait for the price to come down.


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

It's going to wreck their million robo-taxis plan if they overcharge for FSD. Someday they are going to decide they want more people buying FSD and they will have a deal.


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## ateslik (Apr 13, 2018)

There is no debate. The feature does not exist. at. all. People are literally paying for nothing.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

ateslik said:


> There is no debate. The feature does not exist. at. all. People are literally paying for nothing.


Maybe when it was originally sold, but now it's needed for summon, auto park, auto lane change, and NoA (which, while not FSD, is pretty useful right now).


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

Yeah, the people who payed for FSD when EAP was available have so far paid for nothing. But the people who pay for FSD on a new car now are getting the features that used to be EAP. So far, then, it's just a name change. Pretty soon Tesla needs to pull the trigger and provide features that go to FSD but _not_ to EAP. Presumably enhanced summon will be the first of those.

EDIT: As pointed out below, Enhanced Summon is also supposed to be part of EAP. So the first FSD feature will be after that.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

DocScott said:


> Pretty soon Tesla needs to pull the trigger and provide features that go to FSD but _not_ to EAP. Presumably enhanced summon will be the first of those.


Enhanced Summon was advertised as being part of EAP from time that HW 2.0 was announced, so it will likely remain an EAP feature. (I believe we saw some official/Tweeted confirmation to this effect a few months ago, but I don't have it handy.)

The first FSD-exclusive features may be something like expanding upon the existing stoplight/stop-sign detection to enable some kind of basic, officially-sanctioned driver assistance on surface streets (similar to plain Autosteer on highways).


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## Scubastevo80 (Jul 2, 2018)

FSD upgrade is now $3k for those with EAP (back down from $6k)


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

Scubastevo80 said:


> FSD upgrade is now $3k for those with EAP (back down from $6k)


They previously had said they would honor the $3k after purchase for those w EAP. So think this is a clerical correction for pre-restructuring of AP owners So they don't have to refund the difference.


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## skygraff (Jun 2, 2017)

Yeah, if it's going to stay that way ($3k), I'll wait. However, because that's a slight savings over what I'd expected to spend should I decide to add it after purchase (original statement was $4k after purchase and thought that was a locked price based on purchase date), if it's only temporary, I may just go ahead and pull the trigger in order to ensure I'm at least in line for the upgraded hardware. Would be nice if they'd let us "reserve" the FSD at a particular price; not that it helped with the car reservation (what's that special thing for line waiters, again?).


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## Jarettp (Dec 1, 2018)

Well well well what have we here? Elon coming to his senses. Hate to be that guy but.... I called it. Now if he'd cut that last $1k off I'd be ecstatic but this isn't a bad compromise.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

this isn't specifically a price cut, but keeps them from having to reimburse the EAP owners the difference that was quoted at purchase for FSD to be added later, which they have been doing.


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## Jarettp (Dec 1, 2018)

Just got an email stating the new $3k price will go up on the 16th... *sigh*


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Jarettp said:


> Just got an email stating the new $3k price will go up on the 16th... *sigh*


Tesla FSD, the stock market or the casino, the gamble is yours !


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## Caulin (Sep 2, 2018)

Jarettp said:


> Just got an email stating the new $3k price will go up on the 16th... *sigh*


This really annoys me. We already paid more for the car with EAP back in 2018 compared to the same car with FSD bought now. Why do they want me to fork over another 3k for future FSD and say "the price will go up".

Also, I think LEGALLY they cannot charge more than the agreement states when you bought the car. For me, it was 3k at purchase and 4k after delivery. That means they are locked into the 4k price tag because that was the specified price at time of purchase. Correct?


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Caulin said:


> Also, I think LEGALLY they cannot charge more than the agreement states when you bought the car. For me, it was 3k at purchase and 4k after delivery. That means they are locked into the 4k price tag because that was the specified price at time of purchase. Correct?


The $4k after-delivery price was mentioned on the ordering page, because *at that time*, they were charging $4k to add FSD after having taken delivery of the car. But I don't think the $4k price is actually part of your purchase contract.


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## Caulin (Sep 2, 2018)

garsh said:


> The $4k after-delivery price was mentioned on the ordering page, because *at that time*, they were charging $4k to add FSD after having taken delivery of the car. But I don't think the $4k price is actually part of your purchase contract.


hmmm interesting.

I still get very angry when I see the price of a model 3 now vs when I bought it. I could order a FSD exact version of my car for 7K less than what I bought it for in 2018. The only reason I pulled the trigger back in 2018 was Tesla saying "hurry up before tax break gets reduced". I would have happily waited until 2019 to buy it.

For this reason Im not sure I will EVER buy FSD. Just the principle of giving Tesla more money to upgrade my car when the car is so much cheaper now.


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## Jarettp (Dec 1, 2018)

Caulin said:


> hmmm interesting.
> 
> I still get very angry when I see the price of a model 3 now vs when I bought it. I could order a FSD exact version of my car for 7K less than what I bought it for in 2018. The only reason I pulled the trigger back in 2018 was Tesla saying "hurry up before tax break gets reduced". I would have happily waited until 2019 to buy it.
> 
> For this reason Im not sure I will EVER buy FSD. Just the principle of giving Tesla more money to upgrade my car when the car is so much cheaper now.


 It does kind of suck how they played the tax rebate. Sounds like you still saved $500 overall but the whole thing is kind of ridiculous tbh.


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## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

Jarettp said:


> It does kind of suck how they played the tax rebate. Sounds like you still saved $500 overall but the whole thing is kind of ridiculous tbh.


Plus you've had the chance to enjoy the car for that much longer than waiting.


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## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

I may be the only one here, but I'm excited about this. The increase in price means they're closer to realizing FSD. I'm not saying FSD will happen by EOY, but I'd be very surprised if we didn't see some AP/EAP/FSD type features being released around the same time. It's just more than a week away and I can't wait!


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## Caulin (Sep 2, 2018)

Jarettp said:


> It does kind of suck how they played the tax rebate. Sounds like you still saved $500 overall but the whole thing is kind of ridiculous tbh.


no i dont think so. My car was 61000 - 7500 rebate so 53,500. The current car is 54000 - 1875 (current tax rebate right?) so thats 52125.

So thats a a lot closer than I thought. But the new car is about 1K cheaper but WITH FSD, where mine only has EAP. Thats why I think EAP owners should get the FSD for free. I can totally see paying for the install of the new computer, but thats it. Between the price changes and all the stuff we dealt with in 2018 I think thats more than fair.



airj1012 said:


> I may be the only one here, but I'm excited about this. The increase in price means they're closer to realizing FSD. I'm not saying FSD will happen by EOY, but I'd be very surprised if we didn't see some AP/EAP/FSD type features being released around the same time. It's just more than a week away and I can't wait!


yes this is a good point. I think the Auto/enhanced summon will be the last feature still covered under EAP. So the next feature after summon will be specifically for FSD only, and im sure everything after as well.


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## Jarettp (Dec 1, 2018)

Caulin said:


> no i dont think so. My car was 61000 - 7500 rebate so 53,500. The current car is 54000 - 1875 (current tax rebate right?) so thats 52125.
> 
> So thats a a lot closer than I thought. But the new car is about 1K cheaper but WITH FSD, where mine only has EAP. Thats why I think EAP owners should get the FSD for free. I can totally see paying for the install of the new computer, but thats it. Between the price changes and all the stuff we dealt with in 2018 I think thats more than fair.
> 
> yes this is a good point. I think the Auto/enhanced summon will be the last feature still covered under EAP. So the next feature after summon will be specifically for FSD only, and im sure everything after as well.


Yeah you're right when considering FSD. Consider me in the free FSD camp now!


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

garsh said:


> But I don't think the $4k price is actually part of your purchase contract.


Maybe never a part of the actual contract, but Tesla made an internal decision to honor the FSD after-delivery price that was stated at the time of purchase for anyone who ordered a Tesla by June 25, 2018, per the attached email from customer service which I received on October 1, 2018. For all orders after June 2018, the FSD pricing was never locked in if not purchased with the car.

Note that this email also captures one of their changes in pricing of $4k to $5k in June 2018 for after-delivery FSD. Little did we know it would be $2k during the fire sale and now back to $3k for awhile for those with EAP.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

Caulin said:


> no i dont think so. My car was 61000 - 7500 rebate so 53,500. The current car is 54000 - 1875 (current tax rebate right?) so thats 52125.
> 
> So thats a a lot closer than I thought. But the new car is about 1K cheaper but WITH FSD, where mine only has EAP. Thats why I think EAP owners should get the FSD for free. I can totally see paying for the install of the new computer, but thats it. Between the price changes and all the stuff we dealt with in 2018 I think thats more than fair.


FSD isn't standard on new Model 3's; it's a $6000 option. So your car was 53,500, but has EAP, while the 52125 only has AP. That actually sounds like you got a bargain.

If you mean the FSD _computer_, then yes; that's standard on the new cars. But the new car owners still have to fork over a lot for the as-yet-nonexistent FSD _features_.


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## Caulin (Sep 2, 2018)

DocScott said:


> FSD isn't standard on new Model 3's; it's a $6000 option. So your car was 53,500, but has EAP, while the 52125 only has AP. That actually sounds like you got a bargain.
> 
> If you mean the FSD _computer_, then yes; that's standard on the new cars. But the new car owners still have to fork over a lot for the as-yet-nonexistent FSD _features_.


Yes I understand. What im saying is my exact car with FSD upgrade costs 52125 if purchased today. Im not that upset about the price difference. But it definitely makes me not want to purchase FSD for my car.

Im also pretty confident that once it comes out Tesla will inevitably have some sort of sale at some point once initial "buying" occurs. Im sure at the end of some quarter they will offer a sale to try and boost their numbers. So im alright with waiting it out.


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## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

Caulin said:


> Im also pretty confident that once it comes out Tesla will inevitably have some sort of sale at some point once initial "buying" occurs. Im sure at the end of some quarter they will offer a sale to try and boost their numbers. So im alright with waiting it out.


I would NOT bet on seeing a sale on FSD at all. This is the cheapest it will ever be. Why would they drop the price once the features are available? You're going to continue to see more price hikes. Elon has already publicly stated this many times. We're seeing evidence of it now.

The discount is provided to the early adopters as they're the ones having to place a lot of faith in Tesla to deliver on these features. The longer you wait, the more of a reality those features are. The more those features have value. The more reason people will want to buy them. All NOT leading to a price decrease, but instead a price increase. If by releasing FSD increases the value of your car drastically, which Elon has eluded to many times, why would they decrease the price?


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

Caulin said:


> Yes I understand. What im saying is my exact car with FSD upgrade costs 52125 if purchased today. Im not that upset about the price difference. But it definitely makes me not want to purchase FSD for my car.
> 
> Im also pretty confident that once it comes out Tesla will inevitably have some sort of sale at some point once initial "buying" occurs. Im sure at the end of some quarter they will offer a sale to try and boost their numbers. So im alright with waiting it out.


the price difference is between what we paid last year and what a new car today is isn't to blame on AP/FSD, but them lowering the prices to account for the federal tax credit going away. 
EAP + FSD at the time of purchase last year was $7000. Today AP is included and FSD is $6000. So the total price to get FSD is $1000 less, but the bigger price difference is everything else that was reduced in the overall car price. so don't take it out on FSD or Tesla attempting to punish someone who purchased early. See it as a benefit to those just now discovering the car and able to get it for nearly the same final price regardless of the federal tax credit being reduced (soon gone).


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

airj1012 said:


> I would NOT bet on seeing a sale on FSD at all. This is the cheapest it will ever be. Why would they drop the price once the features are available? You're going to continue to see more price hikes. Elon has already publicly stated this many times. We're seeing evidence of it now.
> 
> The discount is provided to the early adopters as they're the ones having to place a lot of faith in Tesla to deliver on these features. The longer you wait, the more of a reality those features are. The more those features have value. The more reason people will want to buy them. All NOT leading to a price decrease, but instead a price increase. If by releasing FSD increases the value of your car drastically, which Elon has eluded to many times, why would they decrease the price?


Those are good arguments.

Here are some counterarguments:

1. Prices for these features have been a roller-coaster. Prices get cut when Tesla needs an injection of cash, and wants more people to buy in. Then they get raised when Tesla needs an injection of cash, and wants to get people off the fence and buy in before the price goes up (Tesla always gives notice before an AP or FSD price increase for that reason). I see no reason for that pattern to change as long as it's working for Tesla.

2. There wasn't really a discount provided to early adopters. The lowest price was in the "fire sale" earlier this year, when AP was $2k and FSD was $2k more. The early adopters didn't get that price.

3. Elon has a pretty good track record on predicting tech advances, an iffy record with timelines, and a terrible record with pricing. I see no reason to trust his prediction of FSD being an "appreciating asset." Even if Teslas do become autonomous robo-taxies, that means the price of taking a robo-taxi will go down rather than the value of the cars skyrocketing.

4. Tesla likes safety, particularly in the sense of preventing accidents from happening in the first place. If the FSD computer makes the cars safer, they'll want everyone to have it. If the FSD features make the cars safer, then they'll want everyone to have those too. It's also bad PR for Tesla if some cars are still having issues with AP which could be solved with the new hardware--they'd rather Teslas have a reputation of being good at driving themselves.

Put it all together, and what I expect to happen is a continued yo-yo of prices for autonomy options, partially as a method to try to get everyone to upgrade. Eventually, I expect the FSD computer to be free or very low-cost to existing HW 2.5 owners, as Tesla will want the safety improvements that come with it. At that point, they'd still charge for the FSD features. But I wouldn't be surprised if far enough down the line at least some of those features become free to existing owners as well.


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## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

airj1012 said:


> I would NOT bet on seeing a sale on FSD at all. This is the cheapest it will ever be. Why would they drop the price once the features are available? You're going to continue to see more price hikes. Elon has already publicly stated this many times. We're seeing evidence of it now.
> 
> The discount is provided to the early adopters as they're the ones having to place a lot of faith in Tesla to deliver on these features. The longer you wait, the more of a reality those features are. The more those features have value. The more reason people will want to buy them. All NOT leading to a price decrease, but instead a price increase. If by releasing FSD increases the value of your car drastically, which Elon has eluded to many times, why would they decrease the price?


Elon confirmed that the price will continue to rise as they continue to release more features.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1159734177085870081


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## Technical48 (Apr 29, 2018)

DocScott said:


> I see no reason to trust his prediction of FSD being an "appreciating asset." Even if Teslas do become autonomous robo-taxies, that means the price of taking a robo-taxi will go down rather than the value of the cars skyrocketing.


Absolutely. I can't believe so few people understand this. The market will set the price to be marginally above the cost. Otherwise it's not sustainable.


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## Technical48 (Apr 29, 2018)

airj1012 said:


> Elon confirmed that the price will continue to rise as they continue to release more features.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1159734177085870081


Elon "confirms" a lot of things.


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## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

Technical48 said:


> Elon "confirms" a lot of things.


Your gamble if you think FSD will be cheaper later. You've been warned by the guy leading the company. I would take him at his word. They're already increasing next week. That's hard evidence. But to each their own.


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## Technical48 (Apr 29, 2018)

It doesn't matter at all to me because I won't be buying FSD. That's even with the assumption that it will ever happen. And that is a HUGE assumption.

The price could go up or down. Only the people working in the part of Tesla that passes for "Strategy" know, and actually they probably don't know either. I think a class action suit against Tesla for failing to deliver is just as probable as FSD coming to fruition. I wouldn't gamble my money on either of those options, period.


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

airj1012 said:


> Your gamble if you think FSD will be cheaper later. You've been warned by the guy leading the company. I would take him at his word. They're already increasing next week. That's hard evidence. But to each their own.


They have already increased and decreased the price many times with no change in what you get and despite what was written on the website when people purchased their cars and what Elon said. They also generally miss their timeslines by a lot when it comes to autopilot. This is one of the most difficult engineering projects attempted. There is no guarantee they will be successful and it's not even completely within their control. Prebuying something like this is a big gamble.


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## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

I also think people are stuck on the FSD verbiage. The bigger question is if you'd be willing to pay $3K for the features identified in the email, understanding that more autonomous features will be released in the feature, and the chance of owning a car that can drive itself (choose your percentage of likelihood). Everyone looks at value in different ways, but for me the answer is an easy yes. Especially given the other things Tesla owners are willing to pay for.

Choose your paint - $1K
19' Wheels - $1K
70 more miles of range - $9K
Again, not everyone is in the same financial situation. Maybe those that are balking at the $3K chose the base model. There's definitely nothing wrong with that. However for me personally, I would rather have FSD over choosing my own paint color and having larger wheels. I know that's $2K vs $3K, but work with me! I'm more of a functionality person so picking FSD features over aesthetics is an easy decision for me.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

DocScott said:


> ...... 4. Tesla likes safety, particularly in the sense of preventing accidents from happening in the first place. If the FSD computer makes the cars safer, they'll want everyone to have it. If the FSD features make the cars safer, then they'll want everyone to have those too. It's also bad PR for Tesla if some cars are still having issues with AP which could be solved with the new hardware--they'd rather Teslas have a reputation of being good at driving themselves.
> 
> .....


This made me think, some day whether it is tomorrow or 5 years from now, if Tesla truly perfects self drive or gets close they may include it in every car. You may not be able to buy one without it. Why? Two reasons, Elon wants the road safer and second as @DocScott notes, Tesla doesn't want to be in the news every night explaining why one of their cars was involved in an accident they say their cars should avoid. So they will only sell a car with all of the full features. Take the whole package or nothing.


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## r-e-l (Dec 19, 2018)

I don't believe FSD car is coming anytime soon. not from a tech perspective (see how the car drives to day and think … will they close the gap in the remaining four months left of the year?) nor from legislative and insurance companies (Yes I know Tesla is willing to take the risk on their own and insure those cars but that is for now just another promise that is still waiting to happen). 

So it will need to be something else, other features that relates to self driving (like summon) -

some will say, the hardware is better resulting in better something .... lets assume better driving models. At some point, it will be crazy for Tesla to develop models and features to diffrent hardwares. its hard. 
I think they will offer hardware update. the computer, i think i read somewhere cost ~$300. I will buy it... I just feel buy now because maybe in the future it will do something is just messing with people. 

each to their own on how much patiance they have for broken promises. I think that once they truly get to FSD, I by then will buy a new car (Tesla is they are around) with the latest and greatest.


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## vinnie97 (Mar 15, 2018)

MelindaV said:


> EAP + FSD at the time of purchase last year was $7000.


$8000 for me (March 2018), and I have nothing to show for it. Just pass me some paltry supercharger credits, Elon. To all of those displeased with the current price and even the price after the next markup, they're still better off than the 2018 Q1 and probably Q2 adopters.


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## Love (Sep 13, 2017)

r-e-l said:


> I don't believe FSD car is coming anytime soon. not from a tech perspective (see how the car drives to day and think … will they close the gap in the remaining four months left of the year?) nor from legislative and insurance companies (Yes I know Tesla is willing to take the risk on their own and insure those cars but that is for now just another promise that is still waiting to happen).
> 
> So it will need to be something else, other features that relates to self driving (like summon) -
> 
> ...


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## RD88 (Sep 2, 2019)

I have enjoyed reading this thread. Before reading it, I was definitely in the buy FSD as soon as possible camp, mostly in fear of the future price increase.
It's £6500 in the UK when purchased with a new Model 3.
No idea if that includes the aforementioned price increase yet.

Has anyone created a poll asking how many current/future owners would/might (not) allow their car to be a robo taxi?


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

RD88 said:


> I have enjoyed reading this thread. Before reading it, I was definitely in the buy FSD as soon as possible camp, mostly in fear of the future price increase.
> It's £6500 in the UK when purchased with a new Model 3.
> No idea if that includes the aforementioned price increase yet.
> 
> Has anyone created a poll asking how many current/future owners would/might (not) allow their car to be a robo taxi?


the price change has been postponed until the V10 software is released (+/- ElonTime™)


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## Caulin (Sep 2, 2018)

MelindaV said:


> the price change has been postponed until the V10 software is released (+/- ElonTime™)


The skeptic in me is wondering if they didnt get the sales they were hoping for....so they postponed the price increase.


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## ryan589 (Mar 2, 2019)

What happened to increasing the cost of the FSD $3,000 upgrade price for EAP owners? I got an email stating I had to buy FSD for $3,000 by 16 Aug unless the price would increase. The price in my Software Upgrade page still says $3,000... Does anyone know when it is actually going up in price? And does anyone know why they delayed the price increase?


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

ryan589 said:


> What happened to increasing the cost of the FSD $3,000 upgrade price for EAP owners? I got an email stating I had to buy FSD for $3,000 by 16 Aug unless the price would increase. The price in my Software Upgrade page still says $3,000... Does anyone know when it is actually going up in price? And does anyone know why they delayed the price increase?


They are going to postpone the price increase until Smart Summon is released.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1163903521701294081


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## ryan589 (Mar 2, 2019)

Is Tesla going to give EAP owners another notification before they actually increase the price? Thanks


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## davidviolin (Jan 18, 2019)

Yeah I was curious about this too. I have EAP and right now its $3k for FSD (which I personally think is steep at this point)


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

ryan589 said:


> Is Tesla going to give EAP owners another notification before they actually increase the price? Thanks





davidviolin said:


> Yeah I was curious about this too. I have EAP and right now its $3k for FSD (which I personally think is steep at this point)


Historically, Tesla has announced upcoming increases. However, it's unlikely that such an announcement will be directed to you specifically. It would most likely be a general announcement that you may or may not hear about. If you check in here regularly, you'll likely hear about it, but you still might miss it, no guarantees. The $2K fire sale came and went quite quickly with no specific notice and many here took advantage only because they heard about it here. With every tax credit reduction so far, there has been a corresponding pricing adjustment, so keep your ears open.

I am curious about one thing. If $3K is steep, why does a potential price increase interest you?


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

davidviolin said:


> Yeah I was curious about this too. I have EAP and right now its $3k for FSD (which I personally think is steep at this point)


If you're hesitant don't buy it. Wait and see what you're getting and then decide if you want to buy it. No one knows what the price will be and what the performance will be and when. Tesla said the price was going up last time before they lowered it. They also said Enhanced Summon was coming out in a week 6 months ago.

If you're going to be jealous at the first video of a car making a left-hand turn without lines then you have Tesla derangement syndrome and you might need to buy it now. Please don't judge.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

Looks like the next FSD price increase will be on November 1st, by $1000.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1182823556830253056


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

Bokonon said:


> Looks like the next FSD price increase will be on November 1st, by $1000.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1182823556830253056


Which Nov. 1st?


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## victor (Jun 24, 2016)

iChris93 said:


> Which Nov. 1st?


Why not every?


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## slave0418 (Aug 4, 2019)

In my opinion ( and I am wrong pretty often) FSD will become a safe feature ONLY when ALL cars around will have at least Autopilot so they could "see" each other.


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## ateslik (Apr 13, 2018)

hm, the price for FSD in my account went back down to $3k. It used to be $6k.

paying $3k for something that doesn't exist, where the first fragment of an attempt is awful at best, is really not appealing at any price. I wish they would make regular summon work flawlessly and not hit stationary objects at 1mph before they **** the bed at 60mph in extremely variable conditions.


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

The question remains, what will FSD have over EAP for the near future? They still haven't so much as teased any differentiating feature. Actual Level 5 is still many years off, but I figured Tesla would have some extra little features, even if hey are just for fun, to tempt us.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

ateslik said:


> paying $3k for something that doesn't exist, where the first fragment of an attempt is awful at best, is really not appealing at any price.


Understandable. But realize that this is a discount price _due_ to the fact that it doesn't work yet. Don't start complaining when the features start working better, but the price has been raised to $10k.


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## ChristianZ (Nov 10, 2018)

ateslik said:


> hm, the price for FSD in my account went back down to $3k. It used to be $6k.
> 
> paying $3k for something that doesn't exist, where the first fragment of an attempt is awful at best, is really not appealing at any price. I wish they would make regular summon work flawlessly and not hit stationary objects at 1mph before they **** the bed at 60mph in extremely variable conditions.


Really? Mine still lists at $6k. I never got a notification that the price went down from $6k to $3k. What the hell? I may have bought at $3K but NOT $6K.


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

JWardell said:


> The question remains, what will FSD have over EAP for the near future? They still haven't so much as teased any differentiating feature. Actual Level 5 is still many years off, but I figured Tesla would have some extra little features, even if hey are just for fun, to tempt us.


They said sign recognition and city driving by the end of the year.


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## NR4P (Jul 14, 2018)

M3OC Rules said:


> They said sign recognition and city driving by the end of the year.


We all know how Elon-time works. But if smart summon can't reliably avoid stationary cars and other cars moving at 2-5 mph, how in the world will city driving be possible in the near future?


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## Long Ranger (Jun 1, 2018)

ChristianZ said:


> Really? Mine still lists at $6k. I never got a notification that the price went down from $6k to $3k. What the hell? I may have bought at $3K but NOT $6K.


Do you have EAP? If so, I think you should be able to talk to them and get it for $3k. If you look back in this thread it's been $3k for EAP owners since late July. The $6k price is for those upgrading from basic AP.


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## RD88 (Sep 2, 2019)

@TrevP I saw your Tweet to Elon about (re)offering an FSD trial to new owners who have not purchased.
While I'd appreciate the opportunity of a trial I fear that in the UK/EU almost everything included in FSD is disabled.


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

NR4P said:


> We all know how Elon-time works. But if smart summon can't reliably avoid stationary cars and other cars moving at 2-5 mph, how in the world will city driving be possible in the near future?


It's assist so it doesn't need to be perfect. I'm not sure it's going to be super useful at first but it does kind of sound like they may get it out this year. You never know until it ships though.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

JWardell said:


> The question remains, what will FSD have over EAP for the near future? They still haven't so much as teased any differentiating feature. Actual Level 5 is still many years off, but I figured Tesla would have some extra little features, even if hey are just for fun, to tempt us.


I saw somewhere that Elon or Tesla indicated that the find-a-parking-space type feature will also be included in EAP. That's the feature that's basically the reverse of Smart Summon, letting the car drop you off and then find a spot in a parking lot.

I really think it's ridiculous that they haven't drawn the line and started to have FSD-only features. It's clear to me that Elon likes people to have snazzy new features, and so tends to err on the side of pushing things out to more people. That sounds like a good thing, but not for people who paid for FSD eighteen months ago (before EAP was discontinued) and still have nothing to show for it! And no, I'm not one of those people, but I'd been thinking about it. It if I _had_ shelled out for FSD on top of EAP I'd be pretty ticked off.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

M3OC Rules said:


> It's assist so it doesn't need to be perfect. I'm not sure it's going to be super useful at first but it does kind of sound like they may get it out this year. You never know until it ships though.


Tesla keeps prioritizing L2 everywhere over L3 somewhere, and this is another example. Rather than make it so the car can do all sorts of cool things each of which requires monitoring, how about giving us an example or two of something it can actually do _on its own_, without monitoring?


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

DocScott said:


> Tesla keeps prioritizing L2 everywhere over L3 somewhere, and this is another example. Rather than make it so the car can do all sorts of cool things each of which requires monitoring, how about giving us an example or two of something it can actually do _on its own_, without monitoring?


That's a good point. So far all talk. It's a big leap to not require monitoring. On that note, I think saying you are going to raise the price $1000 because you added a feature that you advertised as part of EAP is quite the spin. And enhanced summon is clearly technical beta not just lawyer beta. The first iteration of Summon, which was also beta at the time, came out in January 2016. Think if they had said at that time, "now that we came out with the first iteration of summon we're going to raise the price because the next iteration will blow your mind"(Nevermind its 3.5 years away.) I'm fine with the progress because I know its hard but threatening customers and setting yourself up to under-deliver is lame.


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## SkipperOFMO (Mar 15, 2019)

M3OC Rules said:


> That's a good point. So far all talk. It's a big leap to not require monitoring. On that note, I think saying you are going to raise the price $1000 because you added a feature that you advertised as part of EAP is quite the spin. And enhanced summon is clearly technical beta not just lawyer beta. The first iteration of Summon, which was also beta at the time, came out in January 2016. Think if they had said at that time, "now that we came out with the first iteration of summon we're going to raise the price because the next iteration will blow your mind"(Nevermind its 3.5 years away.) I'm fine with the progress because I know its hard but threatening customers and setting yourself up to under-deliver is lame.


I'm hoping the raise in price means they're ready to roll out HW3 as they stated they would in the 4th quarter. From there I believe we'll see some FSD progress with the larger dataset.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

ateslik said:


> hm, the price for FSD in my account went back down to $3k. It used to be $6k.
> 
> paying $3k for something that doesn't exist, where the first fragment of an attempt is awful at best, is really not appealing at any price. I wish they would make regular summon work flawlessly and not hit stationary objects at 1mph before they **** the bed at 60mph in extremely variable conditions.


I'm kind of in this boat as well. I am happy with where things are with EAP right now and see no need to upgrade. i'll wait to drive FSD with HW3 in someone's Model 3 before I decide if it's useful or not.



JWardell said:


> The question remains, what will FSD have over EAP for the near future? They still haven't so much as teased any differentiating feature. Actual Level 5 is still many years off, but I figured Tesla would have some extra little features, even if hey are just for fun, to tempt us.


Not much, IMO. Having a level 2 that works in city conditions is, to me, not worth it. And not the definition of Full Self Driving. FSD to me, is Level 4/5.



garsh said:


> Understandable. But realize that this is a discount price _due_ to the fact that it doesn't work yet. Don't start complaining when the features start working better, but the price has been raised to $10k.


I understand that some may want to be generous and loan Tesla funds to develop the software. I'm not going to criticize anyone for doing that. But I'm sure you can understand that many would be suspicious, even critical, of that.


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

SkipperOFMO said:


> I'm hoping the raise in price means they're ready to roll out HW3 as they stated they would in the 4th quarter. From there I believe we'll see some FSD progress with the larger dataset.


It sounds like they have already started rolling out HW3 upgrades on S and X and someone said they heard the 3's will start next year. I'm hopeful they will release their city driving with stoplights and signs sometime around the end of the year. If they do that it will exceed my previous expectations. But I'm not expecting it to be close to level 4. It's possible its a huge leap forward with a new neural net on new hardware but I'm skeptical. It will be progress and I'll be dying to try it but as @DocScott points out they will not have shipped autonomy. Is that a year away or 5 years away?

Edit: Changed demonstrated autonomy to shipped autonomy.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

ateslik said:


> paying $3k for something that doesn't exist, where the first fragment of an attempt is awful at best, is really not appealing at any price.





garsh said:


> Understandable. But realize that this is a discount price _due_ to the fact that it doesn't work yet. Don't start complaining when the features start working better, but the price has been raised to $10k.





Needsdecaf said:


> I understand that some may want to be generous and loan Tesla funds to develop the software. I'm not going to criticize anyone for doing that. But I'm sure you can understand that many would be suspicious, even critical, of that.


Yep, completely understandable. I just want to make sure people realize that Elon has specifically stated that they're planning to raise the price for FSD as additional features are implemented and made available. I can just imagine all the belly-aching that's going to happen if/when that comes to pass.

_"My coworker only paid $6k for FSD last week. Now it costs $10k??? Unfair!"_


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## porkupan (Jul 24, 2018)

garsh said:


> I just want to make sure people realize that Elon has specifically stated that they're planning to raise the price for FSD as additional features are implemented and made available.


This is probably more of a wishful thinking than an actual expectation. The price of FSD is likely to continue to fluctuate, IMO. It will go up to $4K, then maybe back down as the revenue stream from these "upgrades" quickly dries up. Then back up, maybe to $5K, etc. The game here is to entice owners into buying the feature while "on discount", so you have to bring the price up every so often, or your threats are no longer believed. I was offered the FSD for $5K with the car, and promised the price of $6K for later. That was not what actually happened.

I did regret not buying into the FSD during the short period when it was discounted down to $2K, so I decided to pull the trigger this time around. I assume we are not going to see the $2K price again, but we may see the $3K again, or $3,500. Let's not kid ourselves that these price hikes have anything to do with the newly released features or software versions. All the features released thus far are for the EAP that I bought as part of initial purchase. The more recent buyers weren't offered the EAP as an option, so perhaps for them FSD is a viable upgrade. Once the EAP-to-FSD buyers like me start to actually get anything at all for their money, we may have a discussion about whether the FSD upgrade was worth it.


Needsdecaf said:


> I understand that some may want to be generous and loan Tesla funds to develop the software.


You are right, this is basically what it is. Right now Elon is running a crowdfunding campaign, nothing more. We may eventually get some benefit from the HW3 however. Such as hopefully recognizing the road signs and such, saving some lives. I don't expect the level 5 autonomy during my Model 3's lifetime, but the continuum seems fun to be part of.


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## Daniel D. (Mar 21, 2017)

Has anyone been able to get the AP FSD upgrade discounted if you missed out on that 2k price last year?


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## Reliev (Jun 3, 2017)

Daniel D. said:


> Has anyone been able to get the AP FSD upgrade discounted if you missed out on that 2k price last year?


that window is closed AFAIK I think you had until the promotion is over.


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