# Wannabe new M3 owner, work with dealer on recall fix...



## Tighthead03 (22 d ago)

So I've agreed to buy a 2022 M3 from a local dealer. Check in hand, ready to buy. Two hours before the transaction, they call me and tell me that because they have a policy that they will never sell a car with an open recall, they can't sell me the car until the most recent recall (22V702), related to how the automatic windows reverse, is installed. It's an OTA update.

They took the car to the local Tesla service station and downloaded whatever software updates were available, but they don't know how (or if) they can check to know the update included the recall fix. The NHTSA and Tesla recall-check sites haven't updated yet.

So now we're stuck and the dealership is telling me that if they can't verify a fix next week, they're just going to send the car to auction.

Does anyone know what version of software includes the recall fix? Is it ever possible to force the download of a recall fix, or are we just at the mercy of whenever the software gets pushed out?

Thanks for any suggestions you can offer--I hope to join your ranks someday soon!


----------



## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Unfortunately, the software release notes only mention new features, and not any recalls that are being fixed. But we can narrow it down.

The recall document says:


> Beginning on September 13, 2022, vehicles in production and in predelivery containment received a firmware release that sets power operated window operation to the requirements specified in FMVSS 118, Section 4, rendering Section 5 not applicable.


If this software was being installed on new vehicles back in September, then it had to have been either one of the later 2022.20. releases (2022.20.12 in particular), one of the later 2022.24. series, or one of the 2022.28. series. The 2022.36. series (and later) all happened after September. So if the car has a more recent version of software - and just about every car is on 2022.40. or 2022.44. at this point - then I'm pretty sure it has the fix.

I don't know if that's a strong enough argument for you to be able to convince the dealership that the car has the fix, but it's worth a shot. Good luck!


----------



## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

Test it yourself. Place an object in the path of the glass and close it. See ifi it stops (at a reasonable force) and reverses. Same way garage door opener installers test the door motors.


----------



## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

Klaus-rf said:


> Test it yourself. Place an object in the path of the glass and close it. See ifi it stops (at a reasonable force) and reverses. Same way garage door opener installers test the door motors.


That does nothing for the dealer policy.


----------



## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

iChris93 said:


> That does nothing for the dealer policy.


But if the dealer can see that the car has implemented the fix as described, that may help convince them that the recall has been "applied".


----------



## RayW (1 mo ago)

I hate to be a “negative nelly”, but I wonder if maybe the dealer has an offer better than yours, and is using this excuse to back out of the deal, and sell it to someone else. 🙁


----------



## Tighthead03 (22 d ago)

Yeah I thought that maybe the dealer was just telling me a story to sell to a better offer, but if so they're really committed to the bit, calling me with updates on their actions & progress (or lack thereof). If they didn't want to sell to me I'd rather they just cancelled the sale and be done with it. I'm not getting a screaming deal so any better offer wouldn't be a whole lot more than mine.

Thanks to everyone for the advice! 

The issue is that as long as the NHTSA site shows the recall isn't fixed, they won't sell. I offered to sign a letter acknowledging that I was buying with an open recall, tried to talk to the owner directly, and I'm getting nowhere. They say this is one of those "if we make an exception here, we have to do it for everyone" kind of situations to which I said they have full power to say that this is a very unique situation that doesn't apply to any other vehicle. They're not budging.

It looks like there's no way to verify a recall fix outside the NHTSA and Tesla recall sites updating. If so, I'll just cancel the sale and move on. Thanks everyone!


----------



## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

Look at it from another point of view: 

They _want_ to sell the car to auction so they don't have to honor any kind of warranty on it, and because their service department will never get any money out of it. In order to do that, they likely have to prove to either the auction owner or some licensing authority that they couldn't sell it - and the open recall garbage is the way to do that. If the open recall wasn't conveniently there, they would tell you the car failed their inspection and is unsafe to sell, or that the DMV wouldn't let them register it.

The only reason they're keeping you dangling on a string is because they're hoping you'll see the error of your ways and buy one of their gas cars, which have a higher margin and bring money into the service department, plus maybe even pay a little more for it.


----------



## Tighthead03 (22 d ago)

JasonF said:


> Look at it from another point of view:
> 
> They _want_ to sell the car to auction so they don't have to honor any kind of warranty on it, and because their service department will never get any money out of it. In order to do that, they likely have to prove to either the auction owner or some licensing authority that they couldn't sell it - and the open recall garbage is the way to do that. If the open recall wasn't conveniently there, they would tell you the car failed their inspection and is unsafe to sell, or that the DMV wouldn't let them register it.
> 
> The only reason they're keeping you dangling on a string is because they're hoping you'll see the error of your ways and buy one of their gas cars, which have a higher margin and bring money into the service department, plus maybe even pay a little more for it.


I hear ya but that's not at all the vibe I'm getting. Just to satisfy my curiosity, I called a different dealership in the same family of dealerships in a different town and asked about their recall policy. The salesman there said "we will not sell any car with an open recall, new or used. It has to be fixed." So I think they're telling me the truth or we're dealing with a conspiracy much bigger than any of us imagined 

I'm more looking for ways to force the update for the recall. It sounds like there's no way to get Tesla to push an update on demand, even at their service center, and there's no way to know what version of software or firmware includes the recall fix. 

Honestly this dealership is more screwed than I am--they have 5 Teslas for sale right now and all of them have this open recall (one of them has two). They're either going to sit on them indefinitely, unable to sell until someday when they get the update pushed to them, or they wholesale them all and take a bath.


----------



## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

Tighthead03 said:


> I hear ya but that's not at all the vibe I'm getting. Just to satisfy my curiosity, I called a different dealership in the same family of dealerships in a different town and asked about their recall policy. The salesman there said "we will not sell any car with an open recall, new or used. It has to be fixed." So I think they're telling me the truth or we're dealing with a conspiracy much bigger than any of us imagined


Oh I imagine it is a real policy, but it just so happened to be convenient for this purpose. The issue is that it's so easy to explain or test, or even to print out a waiver, but they don't want any of that. They want a _very specific document _from the NHTSA that says the recall for every one of the vehicles has been repaired. The thing is, _there is no such document _for OTA updates. The only way it would exist is if Tesla physically repaired every one of them and filed paperwork for each and every VIN with the NHTSA. That can and will never happen (because it requires each vehicle to be in Tesla's possession), which is why Teslas will never meet that criteria until a drastic policy change is made at the NHTSA.

And the dealer likely knows that. So for them it's a convenient excuse to dump every single Tesla they get on an auction. If they really wanted to _sell_ those Teslas, they would alter their policy (which is much easier!) to say that once the next software update is released they will consider it repaired.



Tighthead03 said:


> I'm more looking for ways to force the update for the recall. It sounds like there's no way to get Tesla to push an update on demand, even at their service center, and there's no way to know what version of software or firmware includes the recall fix.


The service mode menu can now force a reinstall of the software, but I don't know if it reinstalls the version already there or grabs the next one. I think there used to be a feature where if you set the software updates to Advanced and tap it a few times it will attempt to check for updates _right now, _but I don't know if that's still there.




Tighthead03 said:


> Honestly this dealership is more screwed than I am--they have 5 Teslas for sale right now and all of them have this open recall (one of them has two). They're either going to sit on them indefinitely, unable to sell until someday when they get the update pushed to them, or they wholesale them all and take a bath.


They're not taking that much of a bath with wholesale right now. The residual value on Teslas is pretty high, probably more than they paid for it on trade-in.


----------



## android04 (Sep 20, 2017)

JasonF said:


> Oh I imagine it is a real policy, but it just so happened to be convenient for this purpose. The issue is that it's so easy to explain or test, or even to print out a waiver, but they don't want any of that. They want a _very specific document _from the NHTSA that says the recall for every one of the vehicles has been repaired. The thing is, _there is no such document _for OTA updates. The only way it would exist is if Tesla physically repaired every one of them and filed paperwork for each and every VIN with the NHTSA. That can and will never happen (because it requires each vehicle to be in Tesla's possession), which is why Teslas will never meet that criteria until a drastic policy change is made at the NHTSA.
> 
> And the dealer likely knows that. So for them it's a convenient excuse to dump every single Tesla they get on an auction. If they really wanted to _sell_ those Teslas, they would alter their policy (which is much easier!) to say that once the next software update is released they will consider it repaired.
> 
> ...


Service mode only allows you to reinstall your current software version, there is no way to request or install a newer version.

I believe the dealership is just trying to do what they see as best for the customer by not allowing the sale of vehicles with open recalls. Usually a recall means that they get paid by the manufacturer to perform the recall service. However, they are likely not used to the free, over-the-air recall fixes that Tesla can do. If they are waiting on an official document that states a specific software version fixes the issue, they could possibly get something by contacting Tesla Service. They would likely have to escalate it to the engineering department, if that document could be made at all. There is no publicly available info on what software version fixes the issue, but anything after 2022.36.xx should include the fix based on the wording of Tesla's safety recall report with the NHTSA.


----------



## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

Tighthead03 said:


> So I've agreed to buy a 2022 M3 from a local dealer. Check in hand, ready to buy. Two hours before the transaction, they call me and tell me that because they have a policy that they will never sell a car with an open recall, they can't sell me the car until the most recent recall (22V702), related to how the automatic windows reverse, is installed. It's an OTA update.
> 
> They took the car to the local Tesla service station and downloaded whatever software updates were available, but they don't know how (or if) they can check to know the update included the recall fix. The NHTSA and Tesla recall-check sites haven't updated yet.
> 
> ...


What kind of dealership is it? That's the screwiest thing I've heard, especially considering that it's not really that dangerous, even if you got your arm stuck in the window. Unless your arm was made of marshmallow! 

I'm almost done with car dealerships, as soon as my Cybertruck gets built I'll be selling the F-150. I can hardly wait!


----------



## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

android04 said:


> If they are waiting on an official document that states a specific software version fixes the issue, they could possibly get something by contacting Tesla Service.


I don't think it will help, if the 3rd party dealer doesn't understand OTA recall fixes. They likely would only accept NHTSA or Tesla documentation that the window motor assemblies were all physically replaced. If they just get a letter that the windows are fine because of a software update, and no work is necessary, it won't impress them.


----------



## Tighthead03 (22 d ago)

This is one of the largest dealership families in the area, with like 30 dealerships.

I've looked at other Tesla recalls shown on the NHTSA site, and some of them show the software version that includes the fix. For instance, this one, for a Model X for an airbag recall: 

"Remedy
Software versions 2022.40.200 and 2022.44 or later include the remedy that ensures the front passenger airbag complies with Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) 208, Section 21.4 and 23.4. These software versions are expected to deploy over-the-air (OTA) to all impacted vehicles."

That's all I need--the software versions that have the fix. Why is that so difficult for Tesla to publish?


----------



## ticobird (Feb 11, 2017)

As a last resort and something that you should have probably started with would have been to show the dealership how to open a Service Ticket using the app. This will most likely end with a win win where you get to purchase the vehicle and the dealership isn't scared off of reselling Tesla's.


----------



## Old Geezer (Jun 28, 2019)

Go to the auction and buy your car, probably below market.


----------



## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

Old Geezer said:


> Go to the auction and buy your car, probably below market.


 In some states one needs a Dealers License to attend and bid these auctions.


----------



## garyatlaw183 (16 d ago)

Tighthead03 said:


> So I've agreed to buy a 2022 M3 from a local dealer. Check in hand, ready to buy. Two hours before the transaction, they call me and tell me that because they have a policy that they will never sell a car with an open recall, they can't sell me the car until the most recent recall (22V702), related to how the automatic windows reverse, is installed. It's an OTA update.
> 
> They took the car to the local Tesla service station and downloaded whatever software updates were available, but they don't know how (or if) they can check to know the update included the recall fix. The NHTSA and Tesla recall-check sites haven't updated yet.
> 
> ...


Don't think there's anything that can be done until Tesla sends out the fix. Why not buy it at auction?


----------

