# Learning curve: speed assist and default settings



## Mike (Apr 4, 2016)

I've had the car for three days and have just dropped it off in Kingston for a week of PPF, etc.

So what I am discussing, I cannot actually re-confirm until I get the car back.......

"Speed Assist"

I like to drive around town and on country roads using old fashioned cruise control.

Get up to a speed that I like, tap the right stalk once and the car takes over the speed and holds it.

Been working like a dream....until my drive home from the YMCA this morning.

I was doing about 65 kph and I tapped the right stalk (as I have done so many times over the last three days) and SUDDENLY the car hit warp 9 and the little speed readout under my speedometer was grey but said "100" (shows as "60" inside a blue circle in this screen shot):










I tapped the brakes and the sudden acceleration ended.

For the rest of my drive back home (rural setting, 60 and 80 kph zone), the little circled number always showed "100" and if I got up to 85 kph and tapped the stalk, the car would want to get to 100 kph so I simply dialed back the speed via the right thumb wheel control on the steering wheel.

When I left home about an hour later to drive to Kingston, the situation seemed to have resolved itself as I left our village and turned onto a road with an 80 kph limit.

Got onto the 401 and had an uneventful 48 minute drive (auto-lane change works like a charm by the way).

Anyhow, there were times when I was just using "dumb" cruise control (a.k.a. "Speed Assist") and I realized that when I was under 100 kph after topping the brakes, the little circle under my speed would just have the grey "100".

I also noticed on the off ramp at Kingston that the number suddenly went to "70" as I was in the cloverleaf itself......

I said to my self, wait a week before bugging Tesla....but I did hit the microphone icon and say "Bug report cruise control" and a few seconds later I get the thank you reply.......

I come home and start reading the owners manual "after having some actual wheel time for perspective".

I start to read about Autopilot and come across this little gem (page 61):










And further on that same page:










I've been setting the cruise control (as a dumb cruise control tooling around town) thinking it is simply setting to MY desired set point......but it only does that if I am above the speed limit that the map system thinks is on that road because of an obscure detail as found here:










So, it's not me but the map data that sets the "floor speed" if the following "obscure but DEFAULT" setting is used, known as "Relative" (aptly named):









In "relative mode", the map data sets the minimum speed that the speed assist will lock up to.

In "absolute mode", "Manually specify any speed limit between 30 and 240 kph".

Until I get my hands back on my car Friday, I can't be 100% sure that I don't have some mystery software issue.

But I will change what controls speed assist from the default "relative" (uses map data) to "absolute" (uses my brain to determine what speed I want).

Valuable lesson learned: ALWAYS look to see what speed is displayed in the little circle just below the speed prior to tapping the cruise control stalk once.

For almost 45 years, I've simply set the cruise based on my surroundings......

I welcome comments and discussion on this "speed control" while using "relative" as the setting for data input.


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## MGallo (Oct 29, 2016)

This definitely sounds like a bug and you were right to report it. I have been using Autopilot a lot in the last 6 weeks and have never had that happen.

I have it set to relative and it doesn't warn me, rather it sets the cruise to speed limit + 5 MPH (my offset), assuming I was not already going faster than the speed limit (ahem, which happens a lot in this car).

I did know that grey meant available, not set, but again, don't know what that 100 is all about.

As far as the cloverleaf, what was the cruise set at before it went to 70? I think I have disengaged Autopilot on all cloverleafs just for my own peace of mind, certainly with no cars in front of me to slow me down. We are still only at Level 2 Autonomy.

I have had Auto lane change freak out on me once where it started to change lanes, changed it's mind and then changed it's mind back again. @LUXMAN said he noticed this happen when he didn't push the lever all the way down. I can't say whether that was what I did or not.

All in all, Autopilot is pretty awesome. Just stay aware out there and keep your hands on (or near) the wheel kids!


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## Mike (Apr 4, 2016)

MGallo said:


> This definitely sounds like a bug and you were right to report it. I have been using Autopilot a lot in the last 6 weeks and have never had that happen.
> 
> I have it set to relative and it doesn't warn me, rather it sets the cruise to speed limit + 5 MPH (my offset), assuming I was not already going faster than the speed limit (ahem, which happens a lot in this car).
> 
> ...


Thanks for having a look.

Until I get my car back, I can't do any more testing.

Once I do, I will focus on the relative versus absolute reactions on my drive home.

The 70 on the cloverleaf section is, in my opinion, what the maps database is saying is the correct speed for that section of that road.

What I will try out and report is the following: on the 401, which is limited to 100 kph, I want to set speed control to 90 kph.

If I'm in relative, my bet is the speed in the small circle will be grey and say 100. When I tap the cruise control stalk, the car will dart up to 100 (I have no offset).

If I switch to absolute, drive at 90 kph on the 100 kph hwy 401, my bet is the small circle will be blue and when I tap the cruise control stalk, it will stay at 90 kph.

I'll know on Friday.

Thanks.


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## Mike (Apr 4, 2016)

@MGallo,

I explained my situation with an enote to Tesla today, along with my hypothesis.

Here is Tesla's reply:

_Thank you for your inquiry, and sorry about the scare you experienced with the relative Speed Assist setting. You have interpreted the Absolute Speed Assist setting correctly. You manually specify the speed limit, rather than Relative, which determines the speed limit automatically based on detected traffic signs and GPS data._


I am confident I don't have any software issue.

I'll confirm on my drive home tomorrow when I pick my car up from PPF land by setting "absolute" as my desired speed control input setting.

I'll publish results here.


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## MGallo (Oct 29, 2016)

Hey Mike, I just got a new software update that sounds like it would help with your cloverleaf incident. I hope you get it soon.


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## Mike (Apr 4, 2016)

I hope so.....I have yet to get any updates.....

I just drove from the PPF place in Kingston to a wine place in Kingston and then 55 minute freeway drive home.

Absolute setting HAD NO IMPACT. 

My little circled number read 100 (KPH) as soon as I was on city streets.

So, effectively, if I want to use my cruise control, I have to tap it and then furiously use the right scroll button to tone the number down from 100 to a speed that I want to tool around town in.

I have sent a report to the Tesla guy who replied to my first bug report.....essentially telling him all I want to do is be able to tap the cruise control stalk at any current speed and it will hold that speed......


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## Mike (Apr 4, 2016)

Just got the big autopilot update today.

And so, the roulette wheel was spun and today's "what's speed control going to insist on setting to" target was 132 kph anytime I was on the 401.

As soon as I was on the on ramp, the little number in the circle under the speed readout said 132.

Anytime I cancelled speed control (upward tap on the stalk as I find that technique smoother than tapping the brake), the number in the little circle would pedanticly reset to 132.

Another email was sent to Tesla......


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## Mike (Apr 4, 2016)

Mike said:


> And so, the roulette wheel was spun and today's "what's speed control going to insist on setting to" target was 132 kph anytime I was on the 401.


Last night I started reviewing all this stuff as the number "32" seemed too arbitrary.

Sure enough, the warning system for my speed control is set to relative and the envelope of operation was set to the max "+32".

So today, I lowered the envelope of operation to "0", and low and behold, when I got onto the 401, it allowed a minimum speed of 100 kph.....

If Elon is listening, I want a third option on how to control speed assist: tap at current speed to set current speed ignoring ALL other data inputs.

I'm sick of wondering if a road I want to travel on will let me set the speed I want to drive at, not some default setting such as 100 kph in a posted 60 kph zone......


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## jsmay311 (Oct 2, 2017)

Mike said:


> Absolute setting HAD NO IMPACT.


These settings are so confusing and unintuitive.

Tesla should separate the TACC default speed setting and Speed Limit Warning setting so it's more clear. (And while they're at it, they could also add an option to set the cruise control speed at your current speed, as suggested earlier.)


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

I leave my TACC on "relative" with a zero offset. Before I engage the TACC I look at the grey number in the circle. As long as you use the scroll wheel on the steering wheel AS SOON as you engage TACC, it is not necessary to scroll it furiously, Tesla has wisely put in a small time delay which is just enough time to set a new speed before TACC accelerated or decelerates.


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## RSavage (Aug 31, 2017)

PNWmisty said:


> Tesla has wisely put in a small time delay which is just enough time to set a new speed before TACC accelerated or decelerates.


Not exactly an elegant UI in this case. A single click should be all that's required to set your TACC speed to your current speed. Kinda like it's worked on every other cruise control since the dawn of man. Just because you 'can' change something, doesn't make it better....and if it's not better, don't change it.


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

RSavage said:


> Not exactly an elegant UI in this case. A single click should be all that's required to set your TACC speed to your current speed. Kinda like it's worked on every other cruise control since the dawn of man. Just because you 'can' change something, doesn't make it better....and if it's not better, don't change it.


If I wanted that I would change the TACC setting in the menu from "Relative" to "Absolute". Then it would work how you want it.

I like having it set to "relative" but Tesla gives you both options. Nothing inelegant about it.


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## Mike (Apr 4, 2016)

PNWmisty said:


> If I wanted that I would change the TACC setting in the menu from "Relative" to "Absolute". Then it would work how you want it.
> 
> I like having it set to "relative" but Tesla gives you both options. Nothing inelegant about it.


Mine was set to absolute during my testing each mode phase.

No difference.

If I tapped at 60 kph but the data base has a higher number, the car zooms to the data base speed.


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

Mike said:


> Mine was set to absolute during my testing each mode phase.
> 
> No difference.
> 
> If I tapped at 60 kph but the data base has a higher number, the car zooms to the data base speed.


You can set the speed to any setting you want between 18 mph and 140 mph.


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## Mike (Apr 4, 2016)

PNWmisty said:


> You can set the speed to any setting you want between 18 mph and 140 mph.


100% correct.

The warning that you are over speeding can be set to any absolute speed between those two figures.

The issue is not the warning, but the speed the car actually zooms to when the stalk is tapped.

Relative or absolute, it make no difference.

The tapped speed will only apply if said tapped speed is at or above the data based speed.


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## RSavage (Aug 31, 2017)

Mike said:


> 100% correct.
> 
> The issue is not the warning, but the speed the car actually zooms to when the stalk is tapped.
> 
> ...


Absolutely correct. My original post about the UI being less than elegant in this regard, stands.


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## Bibs (Jun 9, 2018)

Agree. I love this car, but the TACC interface is an example of trying to be "too fancy." 

If I push the stalk, it should set cruise for my current speed.
If I want to adjust that, I can use the scroll wheel or touch the speed limit sign.

Much of my drive is on a military base, and the displayed database speed limit is often wrong or simply "carries over" from the last road I was on. Lots of pushing the stalk followed by furious scroll wheel spinning...


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

Bibs said:


> Lots of pushing the stalk followed by furious scroll wheel spinning...


As I've previously mentioned, there is no need to furiously spin the scroll wheel. As long as you know the set speed is not the speed you want, just engage the TACC and immediately scroll to your desired speed. It gives you a moment to see if you want to change the speed before it takes action.


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## RSavage (Aug 31, 2017)

PNWmisty said:


> As I've previously mentioned, there is no need to furiously spin the scroll wheel. As long as you know the set speed is not the speed you want, just engage the TACC and immediately scroll to your desired speed. It gives you a moment to see if you want to change the speed before it takes action.


In other words....best case, you are performing two actions on two different controls to achieve what's been common UI design for decades requiring only a single action on a single control. Blindly defend this 'improvement' all you like, but it's just illogical design (at best). 
Note: I absolutely LOVE my Model 3. This is, arguably, the only issue I have with the whole car. I can obviously work around it...I'm only suggesting that I doesn't make any sense to have to.


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

Hey, personally, if I'm given lemons, I make lemonade. It sounded like some people didn't know how to use it without going through comedic routines like scrolling furiously. I was just trying to help people who didn't know how to use it in a way that was easy and fluid without scrolling furiously.

If Tesla thinks it would be better adjusting to the current speed, it's an easy OTA software upgrade. For me it works fine and there are similar disadvantages to the other method. Because if it set to my current speed, and the cars in front sped up, then I would be left lagging behind and would have to adjust it up to the maximum speed I wanted to cruise at. This way it's always set at the normal speed for the road. TACC is designed to work in traffic and know what the speed limit is (and accommodate a personal preference for offsets). If it were non-traffic aware, then it's best used on open roads and it should be programmed how non-traffic aware CC has always set (to your current speed). 

I think the big sticking point here is simply that it works differently from the way people are accustomed to. So it surprises them because they forget to look at the speed limit before engaging it. And I can see how someone might want it to work that way for consistency with what they are used to or simply because they don't like things that are automatic. There's room for differences of opinion but let's not be so closed minded that we can't see there is no right or wrong way here, only preferences.


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## Twiglett (Feb 8, 2017)

I have to admit that it really bugs me that the speed limit warning is also the setting for TACC. 
I want to have TACC set at the speed limit, but I want a speed assist warning of 5mph when I’m driving. 
What I don’t want but as default is for TACC to set at speed limit plus my +5. 
That is a stupid default for me


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## MGallo (Oct 29, 2016)

Bibs said:


> touch the speed limit sign.


This actually works?


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## Bibs (Jun 9, 2018)

Yes. If you have TACC on, you can tap the speed limit sign and it will change your speed setting.


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## DR61 (Apr 10, 2016)

Just got our Model 3 the other day and love it! However I agree with the OP; I want a setting that always sets the speed of TACC to the speed I am going when I start TACC, ignoring all speed limit data. I frequently want to cruise at a speed below the limit to save energy.


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## Bibs (Jun 9, 2018)

The default TACC behavior, especially WRT speed limits, tells me that TACC was designed for long-distance highway driving, where you're going to set one speed for hours at a time and where the speed limit database is more reliable.

It is not ideal for local or state highway TACC usage, where you will often want to adjust your cruise speed and where speed limit changes are more frequent (which is unfortunate, because that's where we do the lion's share of our driving).

For some roads I drive each day, the car doesn't display any speed limit. That's fine, but half the time the car slaps some arbitrary number in the center anyway, so that I still need to rapidly adjust after I engage TACC.


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## jsmay311 (Oct 2, 2017)

Bibs said:


> For some roads I drive each day, the car doesn't display any speed limit. That's fine, but half the time the car slaps some arbitrary number in the center anyway, so that I still need to rapidly adjust after I engage TACC.


Does anyone know how/why it sometimes chooses a random Speed Assist / TACC speed for a road when it doesn't know the speed limit?

There's a 4 lane road I drive on every day with a 30mph speed limit, but the Speed Assist / TACC defaults to 45mph on it. It's pretty annoying, especially since I don't understand what's behind it.


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## Mike (Apr 4, 2016)

jsmay311 said:


> Does anyone know how/why it sometimes chooses a random Speed Assist / TACC speed for a road when it doesn't know the speed limit?
> 
> There's a 4 lane road I drive on every day with a 30mph speed limit, but the Speed Assist / TACC defaults to 45mph on it. It's pretty annoying, especially since I don't understand what's behind it.


It's the data base being used by the system to determine what it thinks your set speed should be......


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## Mark Tomlinson (Oct 10, 2016)

RSavage said:


> In other words....best case, you are performing two actions on two different controls to achieve what's been common UI design for decades requiring only a single action on a single control. Blindly defend this 'improvement' all you like, but it's just illogical design (at best).


I'm with you on this. And I can confirm that as of firmware 2018.34.1 3dd3072 (9/7/2018), this issue still has not been fixed.

I've never driven an S or an X, but it's been stated elsewhere that pushing the stalk down half way (till it hits resistance) will set them to your current traveling speed, and pushing it down all the way will set them to the Speed Assist suggested speed. Why does the Model 3 not do the same?

This is a huge issue for me. I consider it a safety issue. I find it bitterly ironic that the manual often reminds us that the driver must remain in control of his car when TACC is engaged -- but then they take control of the speed away from the driver when engaging TACC.


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## Mike (Apr 4, 2016)

Mark Tomlinson said:


> I've never driven an S or an X, but it's been stated elsewhere that pushing the stalk down half way (till it hits resistance) will set them to your current traveling speed, and pushing it down all the way will set them to the Speed Assist suggested speed. Why does the Model 3 not do the same?


I didn't know this was the way the S/X got around the whole poor data base issue.

I was hoping three taps of the stalk would give me dumb cruise control, but this works as well.....



Mark Tomlinson said:


> This is a huge issue for me. I consider it a safety issue. I find it bitterly ironic that the manual often reminds us that the driver must remain in control of his car when TACC is engaged -- but then they take control of the speed away from the driver when engaging TACC.


And yes, it is a big safety issue.....


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## Mark Tomlinson (Oct 10, 2016)

So, by the way, still an issue in 2018.36.2 ac4a215. Not that I actually expected it to change in a minor release.

I went to the Model S manual (https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model_s_owners_manual_north_america_en_us.pdf), and it appears the S (and presumably the X) set to your traveling speed unless you pull the stalk toward you. We can't pull the Model 3 stalk toward us, so it looks like Tesla just decided to ONLY set TACC to "the set speed as determined by Speed Assist" -- which they go on to warn us we shouldn't rely on. :-(

When driving at your desired speed, set the
cruising speed by moving the cruise control
lever up or down, then releasing.

To set the cruising speed to the set speed as
determined by Speed Assist (see Controlling
Speed Assist on page 97), pull the cruise
control lever towards you, then release.​
I really hope this gets corrected. Soon.

(EDIT to clarify: The indented text is from the Models S manual).


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## Rob D (Jul 7, 2018)

Bibs said:


> For some roads I drive each day, the car doesn't display any speed limit. That's fine, but half the time the car slaps some arbitrary number in the center anyway, so that I still need to rapidly adjust after I engage TACC.


I have a similar problem. Rather than arbitrary, the Speed Assist number retains the value for the previous road. Here's the scenario:

Driving a 4 lane US Hwy, speed limit 65. Speed limit sign 65 shown. Speed assist defaults to 65 (or higher if I am going > 65)
Turn off onto county road, speed limit 45. NO speed limit sign shown. Speed assist defaults to 65.
My expectation for #2 is that Speed Assist default to a lower value so that the effective result is that my current speed (say 40, 45, or 50) is the the speed assist value.


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## jsmay311 (Oct 2, 2017)

ICYMI... a recent software change allows you to set the Speed Assist relative offset to a negative number, as low as -20 mph. 

So if you want to be able to set your cruise speed at your current speed even when it’s below the (assumed) speed limit, setting the Speed Assist relative offset to -20 mph will do the trick as long as you’re going no slower than 20mph under the speed limit.


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## Mark Tomlinson (Oct 10, 2016)

I see where you're going there, jsmay311. Basically, since the Model 3 TACC will go either your cruising speed or the Speed Assist recommendation -- *whichever is greater* -- you're essentially disabling Speed Assist by setting it 20 MPH lower than the (assumed) speed limit. It's a workaround that I might try.

But right off the bat, I'm having a couple of issues with it. In the suburban and rural areas I drive, I'll come to a stop light and then have to accelerate back up to 57 (speed limit plus 2 MPH offset). In my old ICE, I would use 'Resume'. Setting the offset to -20 disables the closest thing I have to Resume. Additionally, on those same roads, the speed may drop from 55 to 45. A tap on the speed limit sign on the display currently readjusts my cruising speed to 47. I certainly wouldn't want to drop to 27, so I'd have to disable cruise (and potentially auto-steer), moderate the speed so regen doesn't cause me to decelerate too quickly, and then re-engage when my car reaches the correct new speed.

Be a lot easier if Tesla just fixed it so it works similar to the S and the X.


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## jsmay311 (Oct 2, 2017)

Mark Tomlinson said:


> I see where you're going there, jsmay311. Basically, since the Model 3 TACC will go either your cruising speed or the Speed Assist recommendation -- *whichever is greater* -- you're essentially disabling Speed Assist by setting it 20 MPH lower than the (assumed) speed limit. It's a workaround that I might try.
> 
> But right off the bat, I'm having a couple of issues with it. In the suburban and rural areas I drive, I'll come to a stop light and then have to accelerate back up to 57 (speed limit plus 2 MPH offset). In my old ICE, I would use 'Resume'. Setting the offset to -20 disables the closest thing I have to Resume. Additionally, on those same roads, the speed may drop from 55 to 45. A tap on the speed limit sign on the display currently readjusts my cruising speed to 47. I certainly wouldn't want to drop to 27, so I'd have to disable cruise (and potentially auto-steer), moderate the speed so regen doesn't cause me to decelerate too quickly, and then re-engage when my car reaches the correct new speed.
> 
> Be a lot easier if Tesla just fixed it so it works similar to the S and the X.


Yeah, there's trade-offs either way. I figure most people will prefer to have a zero or positive speed offset. To each their own, I guess.

I personally never bother trying to hit the speed limit icon on the screen though, so I never realized it would reset the speed as you described. IMO it's much easier and safer to use the scroll wheels to adjust the set speed.


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