# Model 3 OS still not ready for production?



## stebuu (Sep 28, 2017)

Here's some issues I sent to [email protected] (where they will probably gather dust). Teel Deer: I love my car, but software-wise it is unacceptably buggy for a production vehicle. Curious to hear other people's thoughts and experiences. All issues experienced on 2018.21.9

I took delivery of my model 3 on 6/7, and I have a lot of suggestions for useful software tweaks. However, I wanted to send y'all an email about the really bad stuff while it was fresh in my mind. Please keep in mind this is all stuff I have experienced in 10 days/500 miles.

1) My car software has crashed at least twice upon entering the vehicle. This had rendered the car unusable for about 30 seconds on entering the car. When I get into my car, I want to be able to drive immediately, and I don't think this is unreasonable.

2) on some back roads in my hometown (chelmsford, MA) autopilot has steered over the line so part of the car is in the oncoming traffic lane. Watching the line mapping on the touchscreen, autopilot was very aware it was partially in the other lane. (edit: adding this note - I am not using autopilot to drive on backroads! I noticed this while doing some proverbial kicking the tires with no other cars anywhere near me)

3) I have an iPhone X, which seems to be generally considered to be the best cell phone to use as a "Bluetooth key". However, I have had issues entering my car at least twice requiring me to remotely unlock directly from the app. If you're not going to utilize keyfobs, you have to have the cell phone as key be rock solid. It isn't.

4) it was a warm (85F) cloudless day today. That glass roof really radiates heat, even with remotely engaging the AC a few minutes before entering the car.

I really love the car in concept, but it really does feel like I'm driving a car in late beta, not production.


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## Frank99 (Aug 3, 2017)

I agree with all your points, except #4. If you park the car in the sun for awhile, the glass will get hot and radiate into the car when you're driving. I haven't done any scientific tests, but it doesn't appear to me to be any worse than ICE vehicles parked in the sun - there's a lot of heat coming from the roof on those for a good deal of time after getting in and driving. My experience may be different from yours due to location, though. I've taken to turning on the climate control from the phone app when I'm walking away from the car - keeping the car nice and cool while I'm shopping/whatever, and avoiding any heat from the roof. 

If it's an annoyance to you, Tesla sells a sunshade for the roof in the Tesla Store.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Hmmm - thinking you shouldn't have purchased. 
1 - Buggy software, known and it is being worked, changed and perfected. This car is sold with beta all over some parts of the software.
2 - Autopilot is not meant for backroads, disclaimers to such and meant only for well traveled highways.
3 - iPhone X here and it has worked perfectly every time. I understand many have complained about this issue. They provide a card, it works perfectly everytime from what I've heard, don't leave home without it.
4 - It might get warm in your part of the country, but it flat out fry's here. Every day since having the car has been 95 or more. No issues with heat from the roof. We did tint the windows, but no issues at this point with the roof. The AC kicks butt so far. 

You really are driving a car that has some portions of it in beta. It continually changes and improves, and sometimes takes a step backwards.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

stebuu said:


> 2) on some back roads in my hometown (chelmsford, MA) autopilot has...


Please don't use autopilot on back roads. It should only be used on highways. And to be clear, the autopilot feature is advertised as BETA. It is for testing only. Be sure to always treat it as such.


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## stebuu (Sep 28, 2017)

garsh said:


> Please don't use autopilot on back roads. It should only be used on highways. And to be clear, the autopilot feature is advertised as BETA. It is for testing only. Be sure to always treat it as such.


Believe me, I was going under the speed limit and I made sure there was no oncoming traffic coming. It was purely an exercise in curiosity. Overall I've found that autopilot is a bit behind where I thought it would be (this is my first tesla) but I was still surprised to be in any situation where:

1) I was allowed to engage autopilot
2) Autopilot could not stay in its lane
3) Autopilot kept control of the car and did not immediately signal for me to take over


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## goto10 (Mar 15, 2018)

1) I've never had the car be nonfunctional when the center console is rebooting. You can in fact reboot it *while driving*. You of course won't get your indicators or rear view camera display, but you can drive.

2) They've been pretty explicit that autopilot is not currently optimized for "back roads". That said mine does well on well-marked surface streets but I disengage it whenever the markings or other circumstances get sketchy or when it misbehaves. It performs fantastically on freeways though even there it's just an assistance feature and it's up to you to be vigilant and disengage it when it's unable to handle the conditions.

3) Fair enough. I've had a couple weird experiences too, but overall being able to use my phone as my key just by having it in my pocket far outweighs the inconvenience of that not working every once in a while.

4) I have been surprised at how little heat seems to come through the glass but being glass there will be *some* transmission. You may want to consider getting the shade that's available to purchase from Tesla. I purchased one but only used it when I had to leave the car in an airport parking lot for a week and wanted to minimized cabin heating. While driving it's never been an issue. In any event, this is a design trade-off decision, not a defect per se.



stebuu said:


> I really love the car in concept, but it really does feel like I'm driving a car in late beta, not production.


This is a feature, not a bug. Tesla works a lot more like a software company than a hardware company. They'll get the product out earlier, but there are going to keep iterating on it after release. The alternative is that the car releases later with a smaller, more fixed feature set that expands much more slowly. The infotainment system on my 2013 Toyota is indeed rock solid, but it is also pitifully feature bare and of course what I got when I bought the car is the full feature set that will ever be available.


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## Brokedoc (May 28, 2017)

stebuu said:


> on some back roads in my hometown (chelmsford, MA) autopilot has steered over the line so part of the car is in the oncoming traffic lane. Watching the line mapping on the touchscreen, autopilot was very aware it was partially in the other lane.
> .


Using Model 3 AP for situations where it is clearly not optimized for like non-highway or international can be dangerous. Then, if the car is driving in a dangerous fashion like crossing lines, you must immediately take control of the car (as the display frequently warns you to be ready to do.

Remember, YOU ARE ALWAYS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ACTIONS OF YOUR CAR! If you were to have the misfortune of getting into an accident and blaming AP, you will surely be on the front page for 5 seconds of glory but this is completely avoidable.


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## stebuu (Sep 28, 2017)

goto10 said:


> 1) I've never had the car be nonfunctional when the center console is rebooting. You can in fact reboot it *while driving*. You of course won't get your indicators or rear view camera display, but you can drive.


I suspect that Massachusetts being Massachusetts it is technically illegal to drive here without a working speedometer. I could very well be wrong... a 30 second google didn't find anything. However, you also need the screen for other things like wipers and headlights (if you don't have them set to auto).

Essentially, I bought a car that is months into production, and right now the primary key works less than 99.9% of the time and less than 99.9% of the time I get into the car and the control system for everything but driving and blinkers is immediately available. That's just not acceptable for a mass-market car.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

I haven't really had any concerns that you're describing and to add to what others have said, I only use autopilot where it's intended to be used.

Your car does come with an access card if the phone is giving you fits, but I can tell you my iPhone X has worked 99.9999% of the time in 4+ months and 7,000+ miles.


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## stebuu (Sep 28, 2017)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I haven't really had any concerns that you're describing and to add to what others have said, I only use autopilot where it's intended to be used.


Here's the problems i have with "where its intended to be used".

1) If it is not intended to be used on twisty side streets, I should not be able to engage it on twisty side streets.
2) On the autopilot website, there is absolutely no mention that autopilot should be used only on highways.
3) The autopilot in fact says "With the new Tesla Vision cameras, sensors and computing power, your Tesla will navigate tighter, more complex roads" next to a picture of a very twisty one lane each way road.

I think the vast majority of day 1 Model 3 purchasers have realistic views of autopilot. I also think that when we get to the day 2+ reservation holders, it is not realistic to expect that most people would know to not use a five thousand dollar software package on roads that Tesla neither prevents you from utilizing nor actually tells you you shouldn't use it there.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

stebuu said:


> Here's the problems i have with "where its intended to be used".
> 
> 1) If it is not intended to be used on twisty side streets, I should not be able to engage it on twisty side streets.
> 2) On the autopilot website, there is absolutely no mention that autopilot should be used only on highways.
> ...


This car requires and states that you must exercise control.

Here is the question I've asked previously. I'm about 99% certain that your car before the Model 3 probably had cruise control, right? Did you use it on these same back streets? Just because it's there did you engage it at the posted speed limit? Just because it's there did you try to let it take over the acceleration for you on a curvy road? Just because it's there did you set it and then get up and get in to the back seat to make your self a sandwich on the drive in to work.

NO - the answer is NO to all of them. And the same answer applies to the Tesla as well.

I'll stop on this post here now that I've made my point and going any further could get me in trouble or banned and I'm better than that.


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## rxlawdude (Sep 12, 2017)

stebuu said:


> Here's the problems i have with "where its intended to be used".
> 
> 1) If it is not intended to be used on twisty side streets, I should not be able to engage it on twisty side streets.
> 2) On the autopilot website, there is absolutely no mention that autopilot should be used only on highways.
> ...


Hmm. With each response to your OP, you become very defensive. "Beta?" Please. I've had the M3 for almost six months, and it's far from "beta."

"It is not realistic to expect that most people would know to not use a five thousand dollar software package on roads that Tesla neither prevents you from utilizing nor actually tells you you shouldn't use it there."

Here's where I think you sound like a troll (no offense). Tesla doesn't tell you not to drive into a concrete pylon, yet the majority of people don't do that. The law doesn't stop you from exceeding the speed limit, but people do that.

People who ignore warnings are simply testing Darwin's theories.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

stebuu said:


> Here's the problems i have with "where its intended to be used".
> 
> 1) If it is not intended to be used on twisty side streets, I should not be able to engage it on twisty side streets.
> 2) On the autopilot website, there is absolutely no mention that autopilot should be used only on highways.
> ...


Given the pretense that you are responsible and must maintain control, if the car is unable to handle the road it's on simply take control.

The car can go 135 MPH, does that mean you can go 135 MPH or do you maintain control of the vehicle and only operate at speeds it can handle given the road conditions?

I'm not sure where you're going with this...


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## stebuu (Sep 28, 2017)

rxlawdude said:


> Hmm. With each response to your OP, you become very defensive. "Beta?" Please. I've had the M3 for almost six months, and it's far from "beta."
> 
> "It is not realistic to expect that most people would know to not use a five thousand dollar software package on roads that Tesla neither prevents you from utilizing nor actually tells you you shouldn't use it there."
> 
> ...


I am honestly not trying to troll here. I am, however, quite amazed that the resounding response to "autopilot is not keeping the car in its lane on a side road" is "well, its in beta, you should know better than to use autopilot there. That's tribal wisdom!". One of the big problems there is that Model 3s are about to sell outside the tribe en masse.

I am also amazed that people are of the opinion that the primary key and touchscreen not working on a regular basis is acceptable for a car. However, while I am certainly surprised by the responses, i did make this post looking for responses, and I do appreciate people taking the time to respond.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

stebuu said:


> I am honestly not trying to troll here. I am, however, quite amazed that the resounding response to "autopilot is not keeping the car in its lane on a side road" is "well, its in beta, you should know better than to use autopilot there. That's tribal wisdom!".


It does sound like Tesla needs to make this information easier to find. I thought I remembered reading this somewhere, but my attempts just now to find a copy of the Autopilot Agreement came up empty.


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## Dogwhistle (Jul 2, 2017)

Gotta admit, I'm with @stebuu regarding the Autopilot. I really think that if the system isn't meant to be used in a certain area, then it should not be able to engage in that area. If there is a road with turns or features that Autopilot can't handle, then it should disengage with a "take over immediately" warning before the turn or situation. These simple things will prevent a bunch more bad-news stories from occurring as the deliveries go further down the list to the less understanding and enthusiastic. If Tesla gets a feature up to par where it can be used reliably in a situation, then it should be enabled. I'm a huge fan, hate to see the company get painted into an undesirable corner.


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## stebuu (Sep 28, 2017)

garsh said:


> It does sound like Tesla needs to make this information easier to find. I thought I remembered reading this somewhere, but my attempts just now to find a copy of the Autopilot Agreement came up empty.


Using the "my mom" test, there is no way my mom would look at this picture from the autopilot page and think "autopilot is not meant for single lane twisty roads".

https://goo.gl/images/r1a4Np


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

This is the screen you must agree to in order to activate autosteer.

Tesla should make this same text available on their website. This is the only place I can find where Tesla says that it is designed for roads with a "center divider".


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## iluvmacs (Jan 31, 2018)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> Your car does come with an access card if the phone is giving you fits, but I can tell you my iPhone X has worked 99.9999% of the time in 4+ months and 7,000+ miles.


OK, so that percentage means you've unlocked your door at least 1,000,000 times in 4 months/7K miles... which comes out to once every 10.5 seconds, or on average every 37 feet that you drive. I think you need a new hobby .


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## goto10 (Mar 15, 2018)

Dogwhistle said:


> Gotta admit, I'm with @stebuu regarding the Autopilot. I really think that if the system isn't meant to be used in a certain area, then it should not be able to engage in that area.


One of the differentiating features of autopilot vs other self driving technologies is that it is designed to be a general purpose feature that operates the same way you and I do - by observing the conditions around us and responding appropriately. It doesn't know it can't handle a given stretch of road until you try to drive down that stretch of road and even then it is often going to do a "best try" at handling what it's given with the understanding that you are paying attention to keep it from doing something stupid. Because it relies largely on sight even different lighting conditions can mean the difference between a road it can handle and a road it cannot. Even traffic conditions can make a big difference.

There is a frontage road on my daily commute that is not a good candidate for Autopilot. It has irregular markings, frequent construction, and often has vehicles parked very close to the driving lane. That said it would be frustrating to have the street blacklisted for Autopilot because occasionally this road becomes a detour for the freeway when there is an accident. It turns into the worst stop & go traffic and while autopilot doesn't navigate this road at speed it's perfect for getting through this occasional heavy congestion.

This is not supposed to be fully autonomous driving. On the spectrum of "cruise control" to "fully self driving" it is *much* closer to cruise control. No one claims cruise control should be automatically disabled on roads where it would be unsafe. You are expected to use some discretion as the driver. Recognize that it's a beta feature, try it out in different circumstances, and get a sense for its limits so you can use the feature without frustration or anxiety.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

iluvmacs said:


> OK, so that percentage means you've unlocked your door at least 1,000,000 times in 4 months/7K miles... which comes out to once every 10.5 seconds, or on average every 37 feet that you drive. I think you need a new hobby .


Well obviously I was kidding, but to get scientific. It's been 131 days. On the least active day I probably unlock the doors 3-4 times and on a more active day 6-8 times. Let's say it's an average of 5 times a day and that brings me to 655 attempts. I think it's failed twice if memory serves me, so 653 / 655 = 99.69% success ratio 

Side note I do agree with the OP and his concerns for the lay person and language surrounding autopilot.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> Side note I do agree with the OP and his concerns for the lay person and language surrounding autopilot.


and his assertion that the 'lay person' begins will all 2nd say reservations?


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> and his assertion that the 'lay person' begins will all 2nd say reservations?


No I don't agree with that part. My thought is that the lay person can be mixed all throughout reservation pool. As an example, my boss (a CIO and obviously quite technically savvy), was day 1 online reservation but not obsessed like we are/were. He ordered autopilot but was unaware of the full extent of its capabilities.

In the end though I also believe it to be a non-issue. People buy cars everyday with features galore that never get explained to them by the manufacturer that they may or may not know how to use or understand. The big difference with autopilot is that each time you engage it, there is an immediate warning on the screen telling you to be prepared to take over. I think that's enough to remind you with each use you must pay attention and take over if it can't handle the position it is presented with whether the car freaks and tosses control back to you or whether you suspect it's going to be a problem. At the end of the day autopilot is labeled as a beta feature and while it does fantastic things it should always be monitored by the driver who is ultimately responsible.


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## Love (Sep 13, 2017)

I do appreciate the feedback @stebuu provided to Tesla. Whether someone agrees with the points or not is aside from the potential this has to help make Tesla better if we all give them our honest feedback. I hope and believe that points 1 and 3 will be taken care of as time goes by and both the firmware and the app are continuously improved. I just hope that it comes quick enough and well enough to give anyone with thoughts like the OP is sharing with us a feeling of satisfaction. Definitely want everyone to enjoy their Tesla as much as I do.

I will add this about EAP and point 2. When my wife got her car and again when I got mine, it is turned off by default. Each time, the Delivery Specialist was adamant that they are not allowed, as employees, to turn it on for you. They explained how to navigate to the screen and how to turn it on while giving details on what state EAP is at (level 2) and the responsibilities that come with it (everything is still on you as the driver as if there was no EAP). I don't imagine that every Delivery Specialist at every locale takes the time to do this even though I'm 2 for 2, but I wish they would.


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

stebuu said:


> Using the "my mom" test, there is no way my mom would look at this picture from the autopilot page and think "autopilot is not meant for single lane twisty roads".
> 
> https://goo.gl/images/r1a4Np


Did you look at the context of that page? The page is of the format:

1) New hardware and current capabilities: 8 cameras, 12 ultrasonic sensors, radar, 40x more processing power, etc
2) Transitional text
3) Upcoming hardware and available features.

The text between 1 and 3 reads:



> *Enhanced Autopilot*
> 
> Enhanced Autopilot adds these new capabilities to the Tesla Autopilot driving experience. Your Tesla will match speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes without requiring driver input, transition from one freeway to another, exit the freeway when your destination is near, self-park when near a parking spot and be summoned to and from your garage.
> 
> *Tesla's Enhanced Autopilot software has begun rolling out and features will continue to be introduced as validation is completed, subject to regulatory approval. Every driver is responsible for remaining alert and active when using Autopilot, and must be prepared to take action at any time.*


After that text, it goes on to talk about upcoming features. Literally the first one is onramp-to-offramp, which famously is not yet available. The image you posted is not for basic Autosteer, but for "Autosteer+".

If you think the page isn't clear, suggest alternative wording to Tesla. It is a bit dated - for example the page also says:



> *Standard Safety Features*
> 
> These active safety technologies, including collision avoidance and automatic emergency braking, have begun rolling out through over-the-air updates


Of course, AEB has been out for quite a while now. When you bought the car, did you think it didn't have AEB and that you'd have to wait for an update to roll out because of that page?


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

KarenRei said:


> Did you look at the context of that page?


In general, people aren't going to read that closely.

I think stebuu raises a good point - Tesla should be devoting more page time to EAP's *current* abilities (and limitations), and less to *future* abilities.


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## stebuu (Sep 28, 2017)

KarenRei said:


> Literally the first one is onramp-to-offramp, which famously is not yet available.


That's the crux of my autopilot concerns: relying on "famous" knowledge means "well known in the Tesla community". My Mom almost bought an X. She knows very very little about what people on this forum consider common knowledge about Tesla. She would go onto the autopilot page, see the pictures that are under "Enhanced Autopilot" and think "that is what Autopilot can do".


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## stebuu (Sep 28, 2017)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> No I don't agree with that part. My thought is that the lay person can be mixed all throughout reservation pool.


Sorry, I meant to say that once we get to the day 2 reservation people, the percentage of Model 3 buyers who are not already significantly knowledgeable about all things Tesla is going to start to significantly increase. We'll start to have more people like my former boss who heard me talking about my reservation and joined in on the fun, and really didn't know (and still doesn't know) much about Teslas.


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## Kizzy (Jul 25, 2016)

I don't think Autopilot should be artificially limited from being engaged in certain situations. One reason: GPS location data can be wrong preventing operation on freeways if the car thinks it's on a side road. Another: As the feature is in beta, some folks like to test it in various environments (while remaining vigilant).

It would be good, though, if Autopilot was better at informing the driver that it isn't capable of properly staying with lanes on roads it can predict that it will have difficulty with.

Another solution for folks who don't know Autopilot's limitations may be to play a short video upon enabling the feature in the car that highlights where it fails and the kind of response needed. This would also be a good time to demonstrate how to hold the wheel to prevent the nags.


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## verygooddog (Jan 29, 2018)

It is a fact that most people do not read owner’s manuals. This is not usually much of a problem, but when it comes to Autopilot it is very important that owners know everything about Autopilot that is included in the owner’s manual.

I believe that Tesla should consider producing a short video that describes and illustrates all of the capabilities and limitations of Autopilot. It would make sense that every customer taking delivery be required to watch this video as part of the delivery process.

My experience with the delivery process was that the explanation of the capabilities and limitations of Autopilot was not complete. One aspect of the delivery process is that there are many people managing the deliveries and what they do and say will vary from individual to individual. A video would insure that every customer gets the same information, and it could obviously be updated as the capabilities of Autopilot improve.

I think that better instruction is important for the future success of Autopilot.


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

Should Tesla reduce maximum power of the vehicle for 30 minutes if it detects you doing doughnuts on a snow-covered public road?
Should Tesla disable the vehicle if you exceed the speed limit by more than 10 mph and it's raining hard? Snowing? Roads are icy?
Should Tesla prevent cruise control from operating if it detects the driver using it to run stop signs?
Should we outlaw cars that don't have automatic emergency braking?
Outlaw cars with more than 1 hp/25lbs. of vehicle weight?

The last thing we need is for our car to become our nanny (and I'm pretty sure Musk understands this).

You could force every Tesla driver to pass a high-level competency test on Auto-pilot usage and safety and you would still have an occasional idiot who thought he could stretch out in the back and take a nap. You can't stop those who aspire to be Darwin Award winners.


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## verygooddog (Jan 29, 2018)

PNWmisty said:


> You could force every Tesla driver to pass a high-level competency test on Auto-pilot usage and safety and you would still have an occasional idiot who thought he could stretch out in the back and take a nap. You can't stop those who aspire to be Darwin Award winners.


I totally agree with you that there will always be a few outliers who will ignore safety precautions, that's just human nature. In spite of those outliers, I believe that the vast majority of owners will not act that way and will benefit from in-depth instruction on the capabilities and limitations of Autopilot. If some people decide to misuse autopilot in spite of the instruction, that's their choice. For most people, it will be beneficial to have a deeper understanding of Autopilot *before* they get in the car and drive away.


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## thril (May 19, 2018)

Every time I get annoyed that the doors don't unlock automatically I remind myself that every other car requires you to use a key or keyfob. My wife and I share using the car and I find I have had to remove and re setup our phones multiple times as it will stop working to unlock the car or allow starting the car to drive. They may be able to improve this but I think a part of it is the Bluetooth itself (I'm a computer engineer). That technology has always had problems with connectivity.

When I picked up the car they told me to always have the key card with you as Bluetooth isn't perfect. Also, like any computer (laptop, phone) you need to restart it occationally. Features of the car which do not require a reboot of the computer (such as drive, brake etc) are very complex real time state machines. It's an order of magnitude (10x) harder to do that kind of system for something like a touch screen OS let alone probably impossible if you are using Bluetooth.


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

verygooddog said:


> For most people, it will be beneficial to have a deeper understanding of Autopilot *before* they get in the car and drive away.


I agree people should learn how something works before using it. And maybe that's where this is going. Personally, I think any safety legislation should be directed first at a much older industry, an industry whose products have been used negligently to accidentally kill far more people accidentally than computerized driver aids. An industry that produces a product widely advertised to help keep you and your family safe but is statistically proven to actually have the opposite effect on homes that have chosen to "protect" themselves with this product.

There is also an industry that produces a product that accidentally kills more children than handguns but is widely perceived to be safer than handguns. That is swimming pools. This is not the place to debate the pros and cons of either of these topics but any talk of autopilot safety must be put into context. And that is that all of these products are safe when properly used but good luck getting everyone to use them properly all the time. And there is another principle at play here:

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

thril said:


> Every time I get annoyed that the doors don't unlock automatically I remind myself that every other car requires you to use a key or keyfob.


If you unlock the car with the keycard it will not lock automatically on exit, you need to swipe the keycard again. If the car is unlocked with my phone or my wife's phone, it locks every time upon exit. I have tested this repeatedly because I am a photographer and will often have expensive lenses and other photo gear in the trunk. While those are the only two phones I've tested (Samsung S8+ and S9), I bet it works that way for any phone that is able to unlock it. If this is not the case, it probably indicates the phone is losing its active pairing before exiting the car. I am now comfortable walking away without checking it. If you have any doubt whether it locked upon exit it is a simple matter to check it with the phone app. If it is locked, it will say "unlock" and, conversely, if it is unlocked it will give you the option to "lock" it

I know about the car not locking itself upon exit when it was unlocked with the keycard because my wife's phone would not unlock the car reliably until I changed some of the phone settings for her.


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## verygooddog (Jan 29, 2018)

PNWmisty said:


> I know about the car not locking itself upon exit when it was unlocked with the keycard because my wife's phone would not unlock the car reliably until I changed some of the phone settings for her.


I use a Samsung S8+ and my wife uses an LG6. Almost all the time they work, but every once in a while there's a slight glitch. Most of the time just turning the Bluetooth on and off will fix it. Can you tell us what settings you changed?


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

PNWmisty said:


> You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.


We need Tesla to do a better job of "leading people to a thorough explanation of autopilot".


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## VBruce (Feb 18, 2018)

Autopilot is one of a plethora of user assists that when used improperly lead to damaging results AND when used properly improve ones ability. I like the principle of warning about possible consequences of improper use based on the severity of potential damage. If you could really do serious damage using the feature it should warn (nag!) more but ultimately let you proceed. I also like the idea of feature “training wheels” that allows you to explore the feature with stronger protections until feature mastery. I think Autopilot is one of the features that needs a training wheels mode that is initially set for new drivers and can be turned off when feature comfort/mastery is achieved. The Tesla approach to transport is radically different than anything the driving public has experienced and that means the expectations are still being set for this new approach. As explorers of a new way to travel, we need to listen to each other as we find the best approaches to use ( or discard ) each feature so that others that follow can benefit.


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## verygooddog (Jan 29, 2018)

VBruce said:


> The Tesla approach to transport is radically different than anything the driving public has experienced and that means the expectations are still being set for this new approach. As explorers of a new way to travel, we need to listen to each other as we find the best approaches to use ( or discard ) each feature so that others that follow can benefit.


Couldn't agree more. Tesla needs to do more to educate its customers about this radically new capability. Because every accident that happens while Autopilot is activated is reported national news, this educations is critical to the future of both Tesla and Autopilot.

I've never heard a news report about an accident that happened while primitive cruise control is engaged, but I'm sure that this happens. There are enough naysayers, competitors and short sellers out there that will do everything possible to throw shade on Tesla and Autopilot. Reducing the number of Autopilot incidents through education is very important.


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## John (Apr 16, 2016)

Think for a second about smartphones-conventional wisdom is that they an indispensable tool of modern life, but they still bug some people. Some people won't use them at all, other people seem to constantly have issues with them, many people just take to them naturally.

It's a spectrum.

Almost everybody will enjoy how Model 3 drives and handles. However, their experiences with "phone as key" and the touchscreen UI and Autopilot seem to vary dramatically. To complicate matters, just because someone loves their smartphone doesn't guarantee that Autopilot won't freak them out a bit. We have members of this forum just like that.

I've suggested before the idea of a "beginner's mode" for Model 3. Beginner's Mode would have very loud turn signal indicators and very prominent turn signal arrows, and would give you lectures when you turned on EAP or used TACC and Autosteer.

Examples:

"Remember-you need to pay attention and take over when necessary."
"You have canceled Autosteer mode by turning the wheel. You're in charge of steering now."
"To let Model 3 know that you are paying attention, put a little downward pressure on one side of the steering wheel."
"Next time, just press the microphone button and say 'Navigate to 123 Main Street' to enter this as a new destination."
Now I think they should make it a gradual right of passage to graduate from a newbie experience to full-blown veteran, perhaps in stages. The UI would get more and more compact and less verbose until you arrived at the current UI, which I think is great for experienced users. Would it complicate the discussion of the UI? Yes, because until you graduated to full-blown experienced mode, you'd have a slightly different UI.

On the other hand, there could be a deeply buried (to wit: via the gear icon) screen full of toggle switches which would allow you put back certain newbie modes that you miss, or jump past certain newbie modes that you hate. A true newbie who isn't super-handy with software wouldn't see those settings, and would have to graduate naturally through the features.

Just an idea to more gradually "bring people along" to the (very) different experience of Model 3.

As a lecture-y side note, I think it's helpful to realize that one person's experience and comfort level is not the same as any other person's, and just passing on your comfort level and experience won't radically change the experience of someone is prone to take longer to-or perhaps never can-get comfortable with a feature you love. People who complain are not "wrong," they are perhaps just more describing themselves than the car. It's cool that members share information and perhaps can validate the behavior of certain features, but I think there can be a tendency to try and talk people out of how they feel.

Which is just like telling an anxious person not to worry. Not crazy effective...


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## Tchris (Nov 22, 2017)

garsh said:


> We need Tesla to do a better job of "leading people to a thorough explanation of autopilot".


I concur.


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## thril (May 19, 2018)

They should do a 20-30 minute in car YouTube video that explains it, the limitations, situations to be more cautious of (eg stopped vehicle or vehicle in front changing lanes quickly) etc. I suppose it would need constant updating and also from a marketing perspective it sells more cars if people think it's better than it is.


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## Twiglett (Feb 8, 2017)

They could also do training classes and all sorts of things.
We could also expect people to actually read the two page autopilot agreement you get when enabling it after delivery.
But nobody will watch a youtube video any more that anyone actually read that agreement.
Autosteer has the warnings it has precisely because most drivers think they already know as much as they need to drive and ignore anything to the contrary.
Best example is like wearing safety belts - it took concerted effort to criminalize not wearing one to even start to make it effective. Even then, drivers _deliberately_ avoided wearing them - even though it was a massive safety issue.
Tesla can't that kind of ingrained stupidity with training.


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

verygooddog said:


> I use a Samsung S8+ and my wife uses an LG6. Almost all the time they work, but every once in a while there's a slight glitch. Most of the time just turning the Bluetooth on and off will fix it. Can you tell us what settings you changed?


Unfortunately, I did them on the fly and didn't write them down. One setting I remember changing was location accuracy (set to high accuracy). Another was "Phone Visibility" under "Connections" (turned to "on"). Also, in the "Device Maintenance", "Battery" section there is a section called "App Power Monitor" and an option to add apps that will not be monitored for power usage. This prevents the Tesla app from being put to sleep under certain power-saving situations. Depending upon how other power saving settings are configured, your phone might go into power saving mode automatically at a certain battery state or you might enter power saving mode manually. Either way, adding the Tesla app to "unmonitored apps" prevents it from being put to sleep. I changed a couple of other settings that I just don't recall. I don't know if the Tesla app uses location to vary the frequency with which it looks for Bluetooth signals but I figured it couldn't hurt to set it to "high accuracy" just in case. "High accuracy" uses a combination of GPS, WiFi, and mobile networks to estimate location more reliably than GPS alone (because GPS signals may be weak or blocked in some situations).

These setting and the menu locations will vary from device to device and with different carriers.


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## verygooddog (Jan 29, 2018)

I could imagine a scenario where the Tesla employee who is conducting the new car hand-off would lead the customer into a separate room, introduce the Autopilot video and then watch it with them, and if there are questions, stopping the video and answering. I don't think the video would have to be very long...maybe 5-10 minutes. 

They could even make the experience highly anticipated and popular by decorating the room like a SpaceX crew capsule as a way to emphasize that this is a highly advanced tech and a new phenomenon. Maybe even VR!

As several people have pointed out, this will not change the capabilities and attitudes of some customers, but it will ensure that receptive, intelligent customers get a proper introduction to Autopilot. We're not talking legislation here, just how Tesla chooses to conduct it's business.


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

verygooddog said:


> I've never heard a news report about an accident that happened while primitive cruise control is engaged, but I'm sure that this happens.


This.^^
Millions have been killed when primitive Cruise Control was engaged! Yet nary a peep from the media.



> There are enough naysayers, competitors and short sellers out there that will do everything possible to throw shade on Tesla and Autopilot. Reducing the number of Autopilot incidents through education is very important.


There are going to be more Autopilot accidents the more people use Autopilot. But some of those accidents would have happened anyway, without Autopilot. And there will never be an accounting of how many accidents WOULD have happened but DIDN'T because Autopilot was engaged. I knew a professional musician who dropped a CD on the floor while driving down an empty Interstate. He reached over to the passenger floor to retrieve it and when he sat back up he was near the shoulder so he suddenly swerved. Then he over-corrected and then his Izuzu Trooper rolled 3 or 4 times. That is an accident that was 100% his fault but never would have happened had he been using Autopilot.

People are "going to throw shade" on Tesla and Autopilot regardless of how few accidents there are. And the more successful Tesla is, the more threatened they will be and the more they will try to discredit Tesla. You can't stop these people. Probably the Russians are helping too because Tesla's business model threatens their largest source of profit. There are a lot of evil people out there who want nothing more than for Tesla to fail. And other evil people for which it's just a sideline "hobby". If there really were a Heaven and a Hell, these people would end up in the hotter of the two places. Apparently, they like it hot anyway.


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

verygooddog said:


> I could imagine a scenario where the Tesla employee who is conducting the new car hand-off would lead the customer into a separate room, introduce the Autopilot video and then watch it with them, and if there are questions, stopping the video and answering. I don't think the video would have to be very long...maybe 5-10 minutes.
> 
> They could even make the experience highly anticipated and popular by decorating the room like a SpaceX crew capsule as a way to emphasize that this is a highly advanced tech and a new phenomenon.


If the customers showed any aversion to watching the videos, they could do it like this:


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