# Osborne effect unfolding before our eyes



## Mike (Apr 4, 2016)

In the past, I've held the opinion (as a passive observer) that the Model 3 is (as of 01 Jan 2018) a better car than the current iteration of the Model S.

Reviewing You-You's replies to Facebook posted questions during his trans-continental drive of his new Model 3, I came across this:










This is all "opinion", however this person owns a Model S and this person has stated this opinion in the middle of a long trip where numerous teething glitches have made themselves known.

IMHO, Tesla will not be able to keep up with demand for this product at this price point.

All good!!!!!!


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

I'd say Tesla realized this same thing back around the beginning of the Model 3 Anti-Selling Campaign.


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

IMHO even if they were the exact same price I'd rather have the Model 3. Better batteries, better motor, much more efficient, faster charging, same cabin size with more headroom. The only thing the S has over it is more cargo room but I'd rather have an X if I needed to haul cargo. Tesla wants to sell you on the S and X having more tech and being the "Flagships". Okay, so they have one extra LCD screen......and what else? Yes, Falcon Wings are cool and oh, lets not forget the self presenting door handles on the S. Besides those "trinket" items what else justifies double the price???

I'm sure the S and X will get a major update soon and have the newer batteries/motor along with interior and exterior updates. Until then the 3 is the better automobile all around, as long as you don't need a big car with enough trinkets to impress somebody!


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

I expect Model S to get some “improvements” and a refresh soon! It’s biggest advantage is you can get it within 2 months


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I expect Model S to get some "improvements" and a refresh soon! It's biggest advantage is you can get it within 2 months


I don't know about that advantage so much, after all, MY current delivery estimator is now down to 2 months


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I expect Model S to get some "improvements" and a refresh soon! It's biggest advantage is you can get it within 2 months


That would certainly explain the strange lack of inventory vehicles of late... along with pushing custom orders... along with the fact that a custom Model S that I configure today is now marked for "March delivery" instead of the following month...


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## Sandy (Jun 3, 2017)

My money is on a major interior refresh for S and X. To late for anymore anti-sell. Not so much the seats but door pockets, coat hooks, consul, cup holders and the entire dashboard/display (s?)


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

Sandy said:


> My money is on a major interior refresh for S and X. To late for anymore anti-sell. Not so much the seats but door pockets, coat hooks, consul, cup holders and the entire dashboard/display (s?)


The HVAC and don't forget the vanity lights


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

I was watching the TalkingTesla (Mel) delivery and review video earlier today and while he seems to be one of the existing owners that prefers the size of the Model 3 over the S/X, I still found it strange (a little 'really, like what?!") when he starts to compare the 3 to the S and starts off by saying "The S has more advanced tech than the 3..."
People keep saying that, but where exactly? Yes, (right now) it has SAS and Dual Motors that you can not immediately order on the 3 and is a hatchback, but don't think I would say by any stretch that it has the more advanced tech.

the 3 has:
a better center screen (even if 2" smaller)
better nav & maps
2.5 AP
spaceship worthy air vents
new battery design (presume if they invested the time/$ to create a new battery it is better than the 18650 design)

plus creature comforts (that are not tech...) like:
lit visor mirrors
'usable' cupholders everywhere
coat hooks
seatback pockets
frunk bag hooks
lowerable/raisable rear center seat headrest

ETA: the S does have the binnacle screen - but I don't think that makes it more advanced....


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> I was watching the TalkingTesla (Mel) delivery and review video earlier today and while he seems to be one of the existing owners that prefers the size of the Model 3 over the S/X, I still found it strange (a little 'really, like what?!") when he starts to compare the 3 to the S and starts off by saying "The S has more advanced tech than the 3..."
> People keep saying that, but where exactly? Yes, (right now) it has SAS and Dual Motors that you can not immediately order on the 3 and is a hatchback, but don't think I would say by any stretch that it has the more advanced tech.
> 
> the 3 has:
> ...


I was scratching my head on that one as well. The only other "tech" is a power lift gate, but seriously the S doesn't really have anything the 3 doesn't have outside of a binnacle which isn't advanced tech at all.


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## Guy Weathersby (Jun 22, 2016)

The self presenting door handles.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

I think I'd rather have a reliable nav/map instead of self presenting handles


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## Guy Weathersby (Jun 22, 2016)

I definitely prefer the Model 3,but folks were listening tech differences. I can manage without self presenting handles.


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## roflwaffle (Sep 25, 2017)

They could be taking some liberty with "advanced".



> advanced
> 
> adjective
> 1. placed ahead or forward:
> ...


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> I was watching the TalkingTesla (Mel) delivery and review video earlier today and while he seems to be one of the existing owners that prefers the size of the Model 3 over the S/X, I still found it strange (a little 'really, like what?!") when he starts to compare the 3 to the S and starts off by saying "The S has more advanced tech than the 3..."
> People keep saying that, but where exactly? Yes, (right now) it has SAS and Dual Motors that you can not immediately order on the 3 and is a hatchback, but don't think I would say by any stretch that it has the more advanced tech.
> 
> the 3 has:
> ...


I totally agree with you on all these points but there is one very nice thing about the S currently that I hope will come around in the 3 but it's not there yet. The amount of control you have of the car via steering wheel controls is pretty incredible. With software updates I hope the 3 eventually gets this level of "tech" because I really like that feature. However if Tesla makes a decision to keep more things like that on the S/X and not activate them on the 3, well, there is you huge tech advantage on the "flagship" models.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

@Mike Land - I've just assumed (maybe naively) that more functionality would be coming to the buttons... like increasing/reducing speed for TACC/AP just for one example.


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

MelindaV said:


> @Mike Land - I've just assumed (maybe naively) that more functionality would be coming to the buttons... like increasing/reducing speed for TACC/AP just for one example.


Let's all hope so. It does still feel 'safer' to maximize whatever you can control from the steering wheel, how little 'advanced' it is...


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

I assume the same and hope it's the case. I would love to see the right side control speed (up/down), following distance (left/right), and push in to set/disengage cruise control. Heck, you could even double tap it for EAP. They could easily give these controls all the same functionality of the S/X, however they could also just as easily not. I'd expect any other auto manufacturer NOT to give the smaller car all the same bells and whistles. But I thank God that Tesla is NOT like ANY other auto manufacturer and I think they will improve the functions greatly over time.


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## Ken Voss (Feb 2, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> I was watching the TalkingTesla (Mel) delivery and review video earlier today and while he seems to be one of the existing owners that prefers the size of the Model 3 over the S/X, I still found it strange (a little 'really, like what?!") when he starts to compare the 3 to the S and starts off by saying "The S has more advanced tech than the 3..."
> People keep saying that, but where exactly? Yes, (right now) it has SAS and Dual Motors that you can not immediately order on the 3 and is a hatchback, but don't think I would say by any stretch that it has the more advanced tech.
> 
> the 3 has:
> ...


Ok, we all know what is going on here, this is product marketing 101. Tesla has to say the Model S is more advanced than the Model 3 to rationalize the huge price premium on the S and hopefully they will actually make this happen in the next iteration of the Model S sometime this year, but as we stand here today this is simply an "alternative fact"


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## ng0 (Apr 11, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> I was watching the TalkingTesla (Mel) delivery and review video earlier today and while he seems to be one of the existing owners that prefers the size of the Model 3 over the S/X, I still found it strange (a little 'really, like what?!") when he starts to compare the 3 to the S and starts off by saying "The S has more advanced tech than the 3..."
> People keep saying that, but where exactly? Yes, (right now) it has SAS and Dual Motors that you can not immediately order on the 3 and is a hatchback, but don't think I would say by any stretch that it has the more advanced tech.
> 
> the 3 has:
> ...


Don't forget the bluetooth door locks!! I know it's small, but to me it's a HUGE deal! It's one of the primary reasons I wouldn't want a Model S over a Model 3. I'm looking forward to the day where I officially don't have to carry around a single key or fob! Just my phone and my wallet (and even the wallet will be a thing of the past soon). I know some people are pissed about it, but I'm hoping in a couple years every car will come with this feature. BYE BYE keys!


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## Mike (Apr 4, 2016)

MelindaV said:


> I was watching the TalkingTesla (Mel) delivery and review video earlier today and while he seems to be one of the existing owners that prefers the size of the Model 3 over the S/X, I still found it strange (a little 'really, like what?!") when he starts to compare the 3 to the S and starts off by saying "The S has more advanced tech than the 3..."
> People keep saying that, but where exactly? Yes, (right now) it has SAS and Dual Motors that you can not immediately order on the 3 and is a hatchback, but don't think I would say by any stretch that it has the more advanced tech.
> 
> the 3 has:
> ...


Right now, the lac of a heated steering wheel is becoming front and center with the You-You drive in New England heading north.

A heated steering wheel is one area that the S holds an advantage over the 3.


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## Poobah (Oct 10, 2017)

Mike said:


> A heated steering wheel is one area that the S holds an advantage over the 3.


That's one expensive heated steering wheel!


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## ng0 (Apr 11, 2017)

Mike said:


> Right now, the lac of a heated steering wheel is becoming front and center with the You-You drive in New England heading north.
> 
> A heated steering wheel is one area that the S holds an advantage over the 3.


Fortunately in socal that feature is basically useless. My wife's old car had it and we used it like twice in the 3 years she had it. Also with the model 3 I'm looking forward to being able to turn on ac/heat from my phone so who needs a heated steering wheel when the entire cabin is all nicely heated already?


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## Brokedoc (May 28, 2017)

ng0 said:


> Fortunately in socal that feature is basically useless. My wife's old car had it and we used it like twice in the 3 years she had it. Also with the model 3 I'm looking forward to being able to turn on ac/heat from my phone so who needs a heated steering wheel when the entire cabin is all nicely heated already?


I use the heated steering wheel every day in the MX. My first car with it and I absolutely love it. I have been using the heated seats a lot more but 2 or 3 heated seats pushes up the energy usage a lot! I'm finding my average kWh/mi has gone up 100-150 over my summer driving. Range has decreased about 20% but average temps this week has been under 20 deg F.

The M3 is definitely a great car that exceeds the capabilities of most of its competitors.The design of the MS is basically over 5 years old but has had some minor updates. Most car companies that sell multiple models have staggered refresh schedules among their offerings and sometimes a "lower" model will temporarily be more attractive than a higher model but the bar keeps getting pushed up.


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## eye.surgeon (Feb 20, 2017)

Having driven my MS for 3 years, and just sitting in a M3 tonight, I can tell you the biggest factor for most people will be size. The M3 looked nice, was very cool, but the rear seat and trunk are significantly smaller than my MS. More so than I expected. So much so that I probably won't order, and I've already received my invite. The trunk in particular without a hatch is maybe half the usable space of the MS. The frunk seems almost vestigal compared to the cavernous frunk of my RWD MS. 

For many the size won't be an issue, or even might be preferable. Nice to have options, I know many were anxious for a smaller car than the MS, which the M3 definitely is.


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## Mike (Apr 4, 2016)

ng0 said:


> so who needs a heated steering wheel when the entire cabin is all nicely heated already


I totally get where your coming from.

But up here in the great white north, that heated steering wheel would be of value for at least four months of the year (if not more).

And doubly so by not having to heat soak the cabin while on the freeway at -10C temps which cuts the range even more because of the call for excessive cabin heat.


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## ng0 (Apr 11, 2017)

Mike said:


> I totally get where your coming from.
> 
> But up here in the great white north, that heated steering wheel would be of value for at least four months of the year (if not more).
> 
> And doubly so by not having to heat soak the cabin while on the freeway at -10C temps which cuts the range even more because of the call for excessive cabin heat.


I guess I don't really understand what you guys go through. Negative temperatures just don't compute in my brain.


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## Rich M (Jul 28, 2017)

I feel like with the lack of gauge cluster, and the advanced HVAC, you can split the driver side vent into the "two dots" configuration and point the heat directly at your hands on the wheel.


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## ng0 (Apr 11, 2017)

Rich M said:


> I feel like with the lack of gauge cluster, and the advanced HVAC, you can split the driver side vent into the "two dots" configuration and point the heat directly at your hands on the wheel.


That's a really great idea! Maybe tesla can implement some function that will point them to where they know the steering wheel is when it's enabled. Definitely seems like a good solution.


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## Rich M (Jul 28, 2017)

ng0 said:


> That's a really great idea! Maybe tesla can implement some function that will point them to where they know the steering wheel is when it's enabled. Definitely seems like a good solution.


Put a "shadow" of the steering wheel on the climate control screen - have the shadow move as you adjust the steering wheel up-down-in-out. This would also be useful in the summer (for pointing _away _from my hands) since I don't want frozen knuckles during AC season.


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## VATesla4Me (Oct 8, 2017)

Edited out post on Engine and on which is better Induction vs PM as I just read tech talk thread on this and well much better information there. I would say the motor change does not need to mean an upgrade in the motor tech across the board.


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## ummgood (Feb 13, 2017)

ng0 said:


> I guess I don't really understand what you guys go through. Negative temperatures just don't compute in my brain.


I lived in SD for 3 years and you quickly forget what weather changes are really like . I remember going home to my parents in Nor Cal and getting excited because I could see my breath in the cold. And where my parents live is not that cold compared to Canada or the northern states. Then I moved to Texas and just like cold is a problem up north heat is a problem here. I think most people who comment on temperature issues who live in So Cal (whether heat or cold) really don't understand unless they just moved there.


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## ng0 (Apr 11, 2017)

ummgood said:


> I lived in SD for 3 years and you quickly forget what weather changes are really like . I remember going home to my parents in Nor Cal and getting excited because I could see my breath in the cold. And where my parents live is not that cold compared to Canada or the northern states. Then I moved to Texas and just like cold is a problem up north heat is a problem here. I think most people who comment on temperature issues who live in So Cal (whether heat or cold) really don't understand unless they just moved there.


hahaha... so wait, it's sprinkling outside! It's like a winter storm!


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

ng0 said:


> hahaha... so wait, it's sprinkling outside! It's like a winter storm!


He said sprinkling outside is like a winter storm......ha, in Arizona that would be closer to a zombie apocalypse, you mean water actually falls from the sky?.....who knew???


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## ummgood (Feb 13, 2017)

Mike Land said:


> He said sprinkling outside is like a winter storm......ha, in Arizona that would be closer to a zombie apocalypse, you mean water actually falls from the sky?.....who knew???


The funny thing is I have had several times I have been hit by a major storm in Arizona. One time was a huge downpour so bad it flooded the event we were at in Phoenix. Then just this last July we were driving from Texas to Cali and we had a major rain/thunderstorm hit us at our hotel in Kingman.


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## ng0 (Apr 11, 2017)

ummgood said:


> The funny thing is I have had several times I have been hit by a major storm in Arizona. One time was a huge downpour so bad it flooded the event we were at in Phoenix. Then just this last July we were driving from Texas to Cali and we had a major rain/thunderstorm hit us at our hotel in Kingman.


I'm seeing a pattern. I think the rain is following you!!!


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## ummgood (Feb 13, 2017)

ng0 said:


> I'm seeing a pattern. I think the rain is following you!!!


Perhaps! I'll just have to wear my new Boring Company hat more often.


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## Gorillapaws (Jul 30, 2017)

In my opinion it's pretty clear that the Model S needs some improvements to it's interior (hooks, pockets, cupholders, etc. at a minimum). The main differentiator though is (and should be) the size. I prefer the smaller/lighter design of the Model 3, but many people like the feel of a big luxury sedan. You can get a very nice, maxed out 3 series BMW with all of the options and it's really not that different from a base model 7 series, except one is a big luxury sedan that costs a lot more. For some customers, that extra space is worth the price. I think this is a reasonable approach and Tesla should have a similar philosophy to differentiating the Model 3 vs. the Model S.


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