# Do people research before buying?



## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

Do people research Tesla before buying? 

Do people research the features before buying?

Are they aware of the current status of features when they buy?

Did you do any research before buying?


----------



## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

I did, back in 2011. And I decided to buy the Nissan Leaf instead.
Wish I could have a do-over. 



garsh said:


> My 1999 Dodge had over 160,000 miles, and I was pretty sure it wouldn't pass inspection again without a few thousand dollars worth of work. So I planned to get a new car by May of 2012 (when the inspection would be next due). My conservative plan was to get a 2-year-old used Honda Civic. But Tesla & Nissan had announced electric cars that just *might* be available in time for me, and I really, REALLY wanted an electric car. The Model S looked sexy. The Leaf looked like a cross between a fish and a frog. My decision process ended up going like this:
> 
> Tesla had never designed & built an entire car before (Roadster chassis was Lotus). This could be a disaster. Nissan designs & builds lots of cars.
> Closest service center for a Tesla (at the time) was Washington D.C., _4 hours_ away. My Nissan dealer was _3 miles_ away. I don't remember if "Rangers" had been announced, but if it had, it was a new concept that hadn't proven itself.
> ...


----------



## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

I pre-ordered my Model 3 a few days after the announcement - so I did think about it for a few days before putting down a refundable deposit. Because I had a fairly early delivery (July 2018) the dealers didn't have any to look at or test drive, and they didn't have the "drive it for a week" test drive plan yet. I did test drive a Model S before, though, and figured the two vehicles would have similar DNA. So I basically took delivery sight unseen, which was scary, but turned out great.

But before that, I used to spend a lot of time researching and test driving, because cars are an 8 to 10 year investment for me. I'm not a "cash buyer", so it's at least 5 years to finance it, plus I like to enjoy a few years of no payments before replacing it.


----------



## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

JasonF said:


> I pre-ordered my Model 3 a few days after the announcement - so I did think about it for a few days before putting down a refundable deposit. Because I had a fairly early delivery (July 2018) the dealers didn't have any to look at or test drive, and they didn't have the "drive it for a week" test drive plan yet. I did test drive a Model S before, though, and figured the two vehicles would have similar DNA. So I basically took delivery sight unseen, which was scary, but turned out great.
> 
> But before that, I used to spend a lot of time researching and test driving, because cars are an 8 to 10 year investment for me. I'm not a "cash buyer", so it's at least 5 years to finance it, plus I like to enjoy a few years of no payments before replacing it.


My experience was very similar except I was able to see one at a show room in NYC a couple months before mine was delivered.


----------



## bwilson4web (Mar 4, 2019)

Garlan Garner said:


> Do people . . .


*. . . research Tesla before buying?*

My first plug-in was a 2014 BMW i3-REx based upon a Sandy Munro interview on Autoline After Hours. That car taught me what works and doesn't work . . . the right specifications.

My second plug-in was 2017 Prius Prime and it soon became driveway 'art.' It taught me what doesn't work.

*Do people research the features before buying?*

Yes, especially the expected purchase price of the Tesla Model 3. I was only 5 hours late getting my deposit in. We traded in the 2017 Prius Prime and never looked back. We've kept the BMW i3-REx as backup for the Tesla Model 3.

*Are they aware of the current status of features when they buy?*

I understand the phrase, "Looks fine, runs a long time." The great unknown was the cost per mile using Tesla SuperChargers but I benchmarked that in the first six months.

*Did you do any research before buying?*

Sure, "Looks fine, runs a long time." You'll have to be more specific. Most of my useful information came from www.fueleconomy.gov with the exception of the SuperCharger costs.

Bob Wilson


----------



## Gunn (Jul 29, 2016)

*Do people research Tesla before buying?*
Yes...
*
Do people research the features before buying?*
To a degree!! Some features i couldn't care less about, others were deal breakers as I had a 5yr old at the time of purchasing (safety).

*Are they aware of the current status of features when they buy?*
See above
*
Did you do any research before buying?*
Research... the other half practically demanded it... 

To justify the $$ i had to prove to the other half that an EV (not just a Tesla) was equiv. or cheaper. For several years i logged the miles and gas cost to compare the two, taking the EV cost as a calculation from the cost of electricity, it always came out under 1/2. the no maintenance really drive it home...

I also did a ton of physical research as well, drove other EV's like the Golf, Bolt and 1st gen Leaf as well as the S and X to see which was the best fit. Went to plenty of EV events and sat in the next generation to see if they worked (Leaf 2.0 etc). Never really found anything that was suitable and then Tesla released their 3 for reservation, and since it was 100% refundable i put the money down hoping it would be the same or better than their S.

When they released show cars to be seen and sat in i was 1st in line (well, the other half demanded it as $$ was on the line) and well, never looked back since.

I have owned several different makes, models and styles of cars over the years and driven dozens more. My 3 has been the cheapest to run on a daily basis and safest by a long way.


----------



## jdcollins5 (Oct 31, 2018)

In 2018 my current car was a 2010 Prius. I researched and visited local dealers for the Bolt, the Volt, the Leaf and the i3-REx trying to convince myself I did not need to spend $50k on a Tesla. None could come close to the Model 3 specs or the SC network. 

I was waiting to see when the Standard Range battery was going to be available. In the meantime I went to Raleigh and test drove a Model 3. I was hooked. Game over. Ordered Sept. 1 and have no regrets whatsoever.


----------



## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

I test drove a ModelS in spring of 2013. I had never heard of Tesla before then. I had looked at the Leaf around then, but it was just too ugly for me(your opinion might be different). After my test drive, I told the Tesla sales kids that I wasn't ready to buy yet, but I would be an owner someday. Three years later I placed my deposit on a Model 3 and found the 911 days of waiting to be ample time to research the car and the company.


----------



## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

It appears that just about everyone did a lot of research before purchasing. 

Interesting.


----------



## SP's Tesla (Nov 6, 2019)

It’s like anything else - there are people who research the hell out of it, and there are others who just buy it because it’s “cool” or a status symbol.

I don’t think this is unique to Tesla, just the mindset of the consumers.

Sean


----------



## AutopilotFan (Oct 6, 2018)

I'm not sure what your intent is with this survey. None of us are likely to know if "people" research before they buy Teslas. We can all tell you with great accuracy whether WE researched before buying. But we're also a selected group -- you won't get any votes from people who didn't decide to read and join Tesla Owners Online.

So the researcher in me has to call this survey bad data that cannot be used to measure anything. Well, it is accurately measuring whether the people who participate in this forum think that other people do research. Is that useful for anything?

In addition, what do you mean by "research"? Here are the things I did before I took delivery of my Model 3:

Was following news about electric cars in general and Tesla in particular
Read news and speculation about the Model 3 and how it would differ from existing Teslas, other electric cars, and regular ICE cars
Watched the Tesla Model 3 launch live in 2016
Put down $1000 (refundable) on a Model 3 while waiting for the launch to start 
Checked Model 3 news over the next 18 months, both good and bad
Test drove a Model S and didn't like it
Got my email authorizing me to order a Model 3, but didn't because I didn't know enough and hadn't seen any repair/reliability news
Read professional reviews of the Model 3, especially Consumer Reports who I have found reliable for decades
Got a test drive of the Model 3 and liked it a lot
Checked on its reliability and repair record
Ordered a Model 3
Got some cold feet, mostly because of how much I don't like sedans, but didn't cancel the order
Took delivery
Is that research? Mostly it was browsing the internet and taking test drives.


----------



## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

AutopilotFan said:


> I'm not sure what your intent is with this survey. None of us are likely to know if "people" research before they buy Teslas. We can all tell you with great accuracy whether WE researched before buying. But we're also a selected group -- you won't get any votes from people who didn't decide to read and join Tesla Owners Online.
> 
> So the researcher in me has to call this survey bad data that cannot be used to measure anything. Well, it is accurately measuring whether the people who participate in this forum think that other people do research. Is that useful for anything?
> 
> ...


ok..you did research. thanks.


----------



## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

https://electrek.co/2020/06/01/tesla-model-3-crashing-truck-autopilot-video-viral/

_He confessed to the police that the auxiliary system was turned on at the time, and the self-driving state was not adopted. _

Anyone know what an "auxiliary system" is?

Have people like this done their research?


----------



## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

Garlan Garner said:


> https://electrek.co/2020/06/01/tesla-model-3-crashing-truck-autopilot-video-viral/
> 
> _He confessed to the police that the auxiliary system was turned on at the time, and the self-driving state was not adopted. _
> 
> ...


I'm guessing that this is literally "lost in translation". My take on it is that he had TACC activated but not Auto Steer.

No idea if this person did their research, but when you activate the feature in the car the first time there are all kinds of warnings so the point is moot. Driver should be aware.

As to the video, clearly at some point emergency braking kicked in and slowed the car. Seems like it was pretty late though.


----------



## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

I'm thinking of a fudge factor that some accidents are caused by non-owners that didn't initially activate the feature - therefore didn't agree or know to "always" pay attention. 

I don't know how Tesla could remedy this - or if they need to.


----------



## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

So....its looking more and more like initial owners did their research on their cars and its features.


----------



## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

More to the point, whether the owner should know to pay attention nor not is the most critical question: how could an active cruise system relying on radar and cameras fail to account for a radar return so large that it was blocking several lanes? That's what I'd like to know.


----------



## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

Garlan Garner said:


> So....its looking more and more like initial owners did their research on their cars and its features.


To answer your question, suspect that people who are members of an online automotive forum are DEFINITELY the type to research the heck out of just about any kind of purchase. I think it would be disingenuous to take results here and apply them to the general public at large.


----------



## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

Needsdecaf said:


> To answer your question, suspect that people who are members of an online automotive forum are DEFINITELY the type to research the heck out of just about any kind of purchase. I think it would be disingenuous to take results here and apply them to the general public at large.


The general public has no forum.

This is all I have.

So I'll use it.


----------



## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

Needsdecaf said:


> More to the point, whether the owner should know to pay attention nor not is the most critical question: how could an active cruise system relying on radar and cameras fail to account for a radar return so large that it was blocking several lanes? That's what I'd like to know.


I don't think it failed. I believe it hit the brakes.

What you are asking is - Why didn't it hit the brakes earlier that what it did - maybe like a human would have if they were paying attention. That guy certainly wasn't paying attention - and obviously didn't think he should have been - or needed to be as he blamed a feature called "auxiliary system".

How far out can the forward radar see at 65mph?


----------



## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Needsdecaf said:


> how could an active cruise system relying on radar and cameras fail to account for a radar return so large that it was blocking several lanes?


Read this: Upgrading Autopilot: Seeing the World in Radar

Summary: radar sucks at telling you the size of an object. Also, the version used on Teslas (as well as most other vehicles) is unable to distinguish the vertical location of an object. Because of this, cars generally ignore radar when it detects a stationary object (like a soda can, or an overhead sign, or an overpass) in order to avoid slamming on the brakes for no good reason. If the radar detects something that's moving at a _different_ speed from everything else, then you can assume that it's another vehicle. This is why autopilot is generally good at not hitting the car in front of you, but terrible about avoiding things like firetrucks parked on the highway.

The vision system has to get better at detecting stationary obstacles like this, otherwise FSD will never become a reality.


----------



## sduck (Nov 23, 2017)

I can only respond about me, but yes, I did a ton of research before buying. I had like a year and a half between when I put my deposit down and when I actually took delivery. But i always do a lot of research, and quite often shoot down the cars I fall in love with in doing so. Like that Mazda RX-8 - I have no idea why I wanted one so badly. Or conversely, the Toyota FJ Cruiser - my wife thought it was a stupid idea, and continued to think so even after I got it, but it was a great vehicle and I really liked it, and it was a great investment (enabling me to buy a Chevy Volt for almost nothing).

One bit of research concerning the model 3 that's let me down - considering the very much beta state of much of the software, I made sure there was a way to communicate with tesla concerning features/flaws that I found. I would have liked to continue that communication, but tesla has limited most ways of communicating to them, so you can't compose an email and send it currently. Or even fill in a form online, unless it's 144 characters or less. This dereliction of duty concerning customer support has me looking at other companies for a future vehicle. Time to start researching again?


----------



## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

Garlan Garner said:


> The general public has no forum.
> 
> This is all I have.
> 
> So I'll use it.


I'm not telling you what to do or not. Not my place. Merely pointing out that you're likely to receive a pretty one sided answer here.


----------



## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

garsh said:


> Read this: Upgrading Autopilot: Seeing the World in Radar
> 
> Summary: radar sucks at telling you the size of an object. Also, the version used on Teslas (as well as most other vehicles) is unable to distinguish the vertical location of an object. Because of this, cars generally ignore radar when it detects a stationary object (like a soda can, or an overhead sign, or an overpass) in order to avoid slamming on the brakes for no good reason. If the radar detects something that's moving at a _different_ speed from everything else, then you can assume that it's another vehicle. This is why autopilot is generally good at not hitting the car in front of you, but terrible about avoiding things like firetrucks parked on the highway.
> 
> The vision system has to get better at detecting stationary obstacles like this, otherwise FSD will never become a reality.


Radar isn't the only thing FSD uses to detect objects in a Tesla.


----------



## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

Needsdecaf said:


> I'm not telling you what to do or not. Not my place. Merely pointing out that you're likely to receive a pretty one sided answer here.


What are we all to do until FSD is finished? <---- Hence the title of this thread.

Especially with the suggested one sided answers of the thread. We should all know the answer to the above question because we have ALL done our research.


----------



## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

Look at the title of the page of that accident.

_"Video of Tesla Model 3 crashing into a truck on Autopilot goes viral "_

Then the article written under the title clearly states that the driver said "autopilot wasn't engaged".

Geeessshhh.

FSD Criticism from the outside world ( when it wasn't even engaged ) .....as well as the inside world.


----------



## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

Garlan Garner said:


> What are we all to do until FSD is finished? <---- Hence the title of this thread.
> 
> Especially with the suggested one sided answers of the thread. We should all know the answer to the above question because we have ALL done our research.


Honest question #1: why do you feel that it's your responsibility to "do" anything? 
Honest question #2: why do you feel that the answers in this thread are "one sided"?


----------



## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

Needsdecaf said:


> Honest question #1: why do you feel that it's your responsibility to "do" anything?
> Honest question #2: why do you feel that the answers in this thread are "one sided"?


#1. I believe it would be a wonderful service to Tesla for everyone to support their products if they like them. Tesla has no commercials or anything and are probably selling as owners share the excitement of their cars with their neighbor. I'm doing that.
#2. It was suggested that the responses about "research" is one sided as the folks in a forum WILL/HAVE researched Tesla before buying. I have no problem with that.

If the predominant number of people in this forum ( vs. the public ) have researched before buying, then it perplexes me as to why they are taking delivery with so many issues to complain about. Or....is that just the nature of people?


----------



## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

Garlan Garner said:


> #1. I believe it would be a wonderful service to Tesla for everyone to support their products if they like them. Tesla has no commercials or anything and are probably selling as owners share the excitement of their cars with their neighbor. I'm doing that.


I think we're doing that.

If we only talk about the positives of AP and FSD, while completely ignoring the shortcomings, new owners would come in with too high of expectations and would be left with negative feelings for Tesla. We can avoid that by talking about both what is positive, and not so positive.


----------



## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

iChris93 said:


> I think we're doing that.
> 
> If we only talk about the positives of AP and FSD, while completely ignoring the shortcomings, new owners would come in with too high of expectations and would be left with negative feelings for Tesla. We can avoid that by talking about both what is positive, and not so positive.


I agree 100% Chris.

Where are the positive threads about FSD then?

Do you think that the FSD threads here in this forum are indicative of what we share with our neighbors?

This forum is indeed itself - a "research" opportunity for Millions of potential Tesla buyers.


----------



## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

Garlan Garner said:


> Where are the positive threads about FSD then?


I don't think we normally have completely one-sided threads and the result is a mix of positive and negative in a single thread.



Garlan Garner said:


> Do you think that the FSD threads here are indicative of what we share with our neighbors?


Probably not as with Yelp, or most other online forums, the negatives are more visible than the positives. But I think most people here really enjoy their cars and want to see their neighbors enjoy the cars too so their conversations would look different.


----------



## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

iChris93 said:


> I don't think we normally have completely one-sided threads and the result is a mix of positive and negative in a single thread.
> 
> Probably not as with Yelp, or most other online forums, the negatives are more visible than the positives. But I think most people here really enjoy their cars and want to see their neighbors enjoy the cars too so their conversations would look different.


I've been searching here for positive comments about FSD.....cant find very many.

I feel that if I bring up good things about FSD or ....that there is an automatic response of - "You have to bring up the bad stuff also or else you aren't being "honest or truthful". However it seems like we can all bring up bad stuff with out mentioning anything good....and that's accepted.

I even tried to start a thread with the exclusive objective to say "good things" - for the benefit of those doing "research" about FSD, but it turned to Elon being a liar and all kinds of stuff. <--- I'm sure when a potential buyer reads that thread.....its going to sell a "lot" of cars. (sarcasm)

Oh well. It is what it is. Thanks for your dialogue.

I just hope we aren't deterring anyone away from what could be potentially or eventually a good thing for both them and Tesla.


----------



## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

Garlan Garner said:


> I even tried to start a thread about mentioning "good things" - for the benefit of those doing "research" about FSD, but it turned to Elon being a liar and all kinds of stuff.


In my honest opinion, the threads you have created looked like spaces for discussions of the pros and cons but you later seemed upset when anyone mentioned any cons. If your goal is a single thread with just positive experiences, please feel free to create one but be explicit in the title and first post on what you're fishing for.


----------



## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

iChris93 said:


> In my honest opinion, the threads you have created looked like spaces for discussions of the pros and cons but you later seemed upset when anyone mentioned any cons. If your goal is a single thread with just positive experiences, please feel free to create one but be explicit in the title and first post on what you're fishing for.


Ok. thanks. I created one.


----------



## RichEV (Sep 21, 2017)

iChris93 said:


> In my honest opinion, the threads you have created looked like spaces for discussions of the pros and cons but you later seemed upset when anyone mentioned any cons. If your goal is a single thread with just positive experiences, please feel free to create one but be explicit in the title and first post on what you're fishing for.





Garlan Garner said:


> Ok. thanks. I created one.


The good news thread Garlan created is in the Tesla Experiences forum: Looking for positive experiences concerning FSD


----------

