# Requirements for Enhanced Summon



## chuckyvt (Feb 25, 2019)

[mod note: the first ~12 posts here were moved from the Software 2019.32.1 thread]



TMK26 said:


> But now we get to play Chess in the car!


Honestly, I would take chess over advanced summon in the state it was at 20.4.6. I was happy to use it with the intent of getting real world data, but it wasn't useful. (Atleast in my use cases) My guess is V10 is when we'll see HW2/2.5 and HW 3 diverge, and you'll need HW3 for advanced summon. But that's purely speculation on my part.


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## TMK26 (May 2, 2018)

chuckyvt said:


> My guess is V10 is when we'll see HW2/2.5 and HW 3 diverge, and you'll need HW3 for advanced summon. But that's purely speculation on my part.


If that's the case then Tesla will need to upgrade me (and many others) to HW3 since I paid for Enhanced Autopilot (EAP)... which includes Enhanced Summons.


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## chuckyvt (Feb 25, 2019)

TMK26 said:


> If that's the case then Tesla will need to upgrade me (and many others) to HW3 since I paid for Enhanced Autopilot (EAP)... which includes Enhanced Summons.


Yep My guess is the current "Autopilot" level, which is basically lane keeping only, will be the only thing supported on HW 2/2.5 going forward. EAP with NOA and Enhanced summon will need HW3.


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

chuckyvt said:


> Honestly, I would take chess over advanced summon in the state it was at 20.4.6. I was happy to use it with the intent of getting real world data, but it wasn't useful. (Atleast in my use cases) My guess is V10 is when we'll see HW2/2.5 and HW 3 diverge, and you'll need HW3 for advanced summon. But that's purely speculation on my part.


That would be a problem for Tesla. They have said EAP will include advanced summon so if they did that they would have to upgrade all EAP customers to HW3 regardless of if they purchased FSD. If they didn't they would surely face a lawsuit.

I think people have the perception that HW2.5 is at the limit of its capabilities. I don't think that's the case and the improved hardware in HW3 doesn't automatically solve their issues. What Tesla has said is that HW3 makes it easier to program because they are less resource-constrained. But that was in reference to full self-driving. They never said "We lied to you when we said HW2/HW2.5 will be capable of FSD." They said they were going to quit trying. It could be true that HW2.5 isn't capable of FSD but that could also be true of HW3. In a fairly recent podcast, George Hotz was talking about how they were scrapping their new hardware. He said in there that the issues they have, and listed a bunch, are not due to hardware limitations. I'm not working in this field but I'm getting the impression that this isn't like Moore's law type improvements that we have experienced over the past 30 years. We've always had where the hardware improves and it takes a while for the software to catch up but I think this is a little different.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

chuckyvt said:


> My guess is V10 is when we'll see HW2/2.5 and HW 3 diverge, and you'll need HW3 for advanced summon. But that's purely speculation on my part.


I very much doubt that.

HW3 performs a very specific task: it processes images really quickly.

If you're driving at 65 mph and you come over a rise and you're being tailgated and you suddenly see something in front of you and maybe it's an overpass that you'll drive under and maybe it's a big rig crossing the road...well, then you need super-fast image processing. That's the kind of thing where HW3 will help.

If you're going at 4 mph in a parking lot and someone is driving toward you in your "lane" and there's someone else behind you wheeling a shopping cart and there's a car with its reverse lights on that might or not might pull out of the space which you might otherwise use to go around the car that's driving toward you? That's a complicated situation, for sure, but it's not one that requires fast image processing. HW 3 should make no difference. Instead, you need some mix of effective heuristics ("when faced with this situation, do this") and a well-trained neural net. HW 2.5 will be as capable of those things as HW 3.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

TMK26 said:


> since I paid for Enhanced Autopilot (EAP)... which includes Enhanced Summons.


EPA includes Summon as we've know it to this point. Did you see somewhere that the yet released version of Enhanced Summon is included with EAP?


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> EPA includes Summon as we've know it to this point. Did you see somewhere that the yet released version of Enhanced Summon is included with EAP?


Good point Melinda. A post I found shows a screenshot only showing "summon".



SoFlaModel3 said:


> Here is a screenshot of the configurator explaining it. We've had some debate on this, to me "Autopilot" is the standard safety features and Enhanced Autopilot are the additional convenience features that you see below.
> 
> View attachment 5236


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## chaunceyg1 (Jul 13, 2018)

This was what Elon said back in April:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114597013176246273
Elon time aside, he says it's both EAP and FSD.


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## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

chaunceyg1 said:


> This was what Elon said back in April:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114597013176246273
> Elon time aside, he says it's both EAP and FSD.


Wow that Elon time is bad. From a week away to 6 months. It'd be one thing if he thought it was 1 month away, but 1 week. Yikes!


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## tipton (May 21, 2018)

chuckyvt said:


> Honestly, I would take chess over advanced summon in the state it was at 20.4.6. I was happy to use it with the intent of getting real world data, but it wasn't useful. (Atleast in my use cases) My guess is V10 is when we'll see HW2/2.5 and HW 3 diverge, and you'll need HW3 for advanced summon. But that's purely speculation on my part.


agreed. enhanced summon in its current tested form is near worthless unless you need picked up in a near empty parking lot and don't care how close the car gets to you. i'm happy to be back on public releases.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> EPA includes Summon as we've know it to this point. Did you see somewhere that the yet released version of Enhanced Summon is included with EAP?


I think @TMK26 is under the impression (as am I) that EAP includes Enhanced Summon because Tesla's website has been fairly consistent about positioning it that way since EAP and HW2 were unveiled a couple of years ago. In the face of splitting up with Mobileye, Tesla had to make some pretty big promises to justify the increased 5K price tag for EAP, so they told us it would include Autosteer+, on-ramp-to-off-ramp navigation (NoA) , auto-park, and Summon+. Even now, the Autopilot page (which still retains most of the original EAP release graphics and verbiage) lists the features in order of complexity, from Basic AP to EAP to FSD. So, I haven't yet seen any reason to believe that Enhanced Summon is not a part of EAP.

With that said... Enhanced Summon is currently the only feature that moves the car with no expectation that a driver is available to intervene. Since EAP is exclusive to HW2/2.5 cars (I think?) I could see Tesla drawing a line *within* Enhanced Summon and limiting it for EAP/HW2.x vehicles to 4 mph, within 100 feet of the driver, two-dimensional routes only, and car must be directly observable at all times. Meanwhile, FSD / HW3 gets a more advanced version of Enhanced Summon, max speed ~10 mph, any distance (though initially limited to non-public roads), support for 3D routing, and no expectation that the car is observable. Yes, eventually Enhanced Summon on HW3 may become indistinguishable from FSD on surface streets, but in the nearer-term, I can see it playing out this way.


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## marcsf (Jun 8, 2019)

I’m with you on the EAP. We paid for EAP which had enhanced summons and some other features. Then, Elon and company decide to move it to FSD. Bait ’n switch?

And to add alcohol onto the open wound, if you decide after purchase to jump in and get the FSD option - forget it as you get double screwed with a hefty price hike. 

Not sure this is the way to culture a brand and brand loyalty!


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

marcsf said:


> I'm with you on the EAP. We paid for EAP which had enhanced summons and some other features. Then, Elon and company decide to move it to FSD. Bait 'n switch?


1) don't jump to conclusions. We don't know enhanced summon is FSD only.



marcsf said:


> And to add alcohol onto the open wound, if you decide after purchase to jump in and get the FSD option - forget it as you get double screwed with a hefty price hike.


2) they told you this at time of purchase.


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## pdx_m3s (Aug 1, 2019)

Enhanced Summon (part of EAP) will not require HW3/FSD computer; Tesla won’t be retrofitting EAP cars with the new chip. The nVidia chip has plenty of compute power for slow speeds. The issues to date with enhanced summon are not compute constraints, but insufficient training of the NN.


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