# Supercharging has gotten too expensive



## tencate (Jan 11, 2018)

I've been tracking how much long trips cost me. I just finished another 3000 mile trip from Santa Fe NM to just north of Saugatuck, MI (and back). Just added up the cost, $*294*. Used Tesla Navigation and Superchargers the whole way.

A colleague of mine has a Chevy Bolt for everyday driving and a Toyota Camry hybrid for his "family car" for long trips. Let's compare cost since the Camry seems a pretty good "equivalent" comparison for the Model 3.

The hybrid Camry has never gotten less than 50 mpg on trips to Albuquerque and back. So, 3000 miles / 50 mpg is 60 gallons of gas. At $4.25 a gallon average (ycharts.com/indicators/midwest_retail_price_of_gasoline), that works out to $*255*. Less because gas prices in TX and OK are even cheaper than general Midwest prices right now.

That's about $40 less for the Camry. I'm dismayed. I often represent the EV viewpoint at our local Nature center and the "cheaper than gasoline cars" argument is getting awfully hard to justify.

Am I wrong?


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

tencate said:


> I've been tracking how much long trips cost me. I just finished another 3000 mile trip from Santa Fe NM to just north of Saugatuck, MI (and back). Just added up the cost, $*294*. Used Tesla Navigation and Superchargers the whole way.
> 
> A colleague of mine has a Chevy Bolt for everyday driving and a Toyota Camry hybrid for his "family car" for long trips. Let's compare cost since the Camry seems a pretty good "equivalent" comparison for the Model 3.
> 
> ...


 I have never found my M3 to cost less to feed than any of my Prius'. Even back when SCing was really cheap compared to the very hi8gh KWh prices now).

All the comparisons folks are doing is between an M3 and some petrol hog, say a BMW M5.


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## JMart (Sep 12, 2017)

We just did a trip Indianapolis-Toronto and north of there a couple hours. A little over 1200 miles, and we had $111 in supercharging plus we needed a "fill-up" when we got back. At 50mpg that's 24 gallons of gas, and at $4.25/gal that's only $102, but our Model 3 replaced an Accord that got 34mpg highway, and gas in Canada was almost $7.00/gal. Using those numbers, I figure it would have cost around $195. So I guess it depends on your assumptions, but it's definitely way more than it used to be. I recall a trip to Maine that would have been about 2300 miles rountrip costing a little less than $100 4 years ago. We did have a few hundred miles of free 240/120 charging that trip, but still quite a bit less.


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## Power Surge (Jan 6, 2022)

I think the main issue with the comparison here is taking the worst case most expensive use for an EV (only supercharging) and comparing it to hybrid/ICE cars designed for great gas mileage. 

There's many more things to look at here, when comparing to other vehicles. The main one, is usage when not on long trips. At home charging drops the price of using an EV way cheaper than an ICE/hybrid car, as home charging costs hardly anything, but the ICE/hybrid is still paying the same for gas. 

The other thing to consider is cheaper fast charging. If you convert your M3 to use CCS charging, that not only opens up a ton more charging stations, but many of them have cheaper rates than Tesla. Especially companies like Electrify America, that have monthly subscriptions ($4/month) that give you a set price (I think it's .31 cents).

Then you have to factor in costs to maintain the vehicle. Hybrids still have all the same costs to maintain as regular ICE vehicles do. Oil, trans fluids, coolant, belts, hoses, etc etc. 

So in the overall picture, I think EV ownership still saves you money.


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## SimonMatthews (Apr 20, 2018)

tencate said:


> I've been tracking how much long trips cost me. I just finished another 3000 mile trip from Santa Fe NM to just north of Saugatuck, MI (and back). Just added up the cost, $*294*. Used Tesla Navigation and Superchargers the whole way.


At 3000 miles, you must have stopped overnight. Why not stop somewhere that offers cheap or free level 2 charging?


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## tencate (Jan 11, 2018)

SimonMatthews said:


> At 3000 miles, you must have stopped overnight. Why not stop somewhere that offers cheap or free level 2 charging?


Yes, that helps. But I slept in the car, oftentimes I'll sleep at an RV park since it's cheaper than a hotel room that even HAS overnight charging. This time however I drove straight through, taking naps when I got tired. 

By the way, a few years back I did a trip to LA and back and spent a week there driving around using only Superchargers. Total cost of Supercharging on that trip was $88. (I spent more taking my daughter and her boyfriend out to Brunch.) I also chose the Camry since it's a similar comfortable long distance cruising kind of car, not sure I feel the same about a Prius. 

Finally, I realize charging at home completely changes the picture but soon they'll figure out a way to charge us extra for charging at home too. (Sorry, feeling a bit grumpy today)


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

tencate said:


> Finally, I realize charging at home completely changes the picture but soon they'll figure out a way to charge us extra for charging at home too. (Sorry, feeling a bit grumpy today)


Unfortunately home charging and lower level of maintenance will always be the only real cost benefits of owning an EV. Tesla is raising prices of everything right now to maximize profit and impress stockholders, but in the future they won't be the only ones. I predict that even though the commodity of electricity is cheaper than gasoline, as EV's become more popular, most charging stations will try to maintain a "fill up" charge that's equivelent to gas.


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## Ed Woodrick (May 26, 2018)

Do the numbers with a gas Ford F-150, or even better a diesel.

Superchargers are enablers, they aren't intended to be the cheapest solutions. 

And don't forget that there is a difference in Supercharger prices between states that allow and don't allow per kWh charging.


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## tencate (Jan 11, 2018)

Ed Woodrick said:


> Superchargers are enablers, they aren't intended to be the cheapest solutions.


I understand and totally get it. But to "pick nits", wasn't there a Tweet saying something like "Supercharging will always be cheaper than gas" ? I think we've gotten to the point where that's no longer true. If you do the math above, my Model 3 is currently equivalent to a car that does 41 mpg. And there's more than a few cars like that now, an Audi A3 (pure ICE) gets 39 mpg highway for example. As gas prices drop, the "cheaper than gas" comment will be less and less true.

Just playing devil's advocate. I get a lot of these sorts of comments when our Nature Center hosts EV events and it was easy to point to my LA trip showing (1) how easy it was and (2) how cheap it was. Can't do that anymore  Mind you, I'd buy another Model 3 in a heartbeat if something happened to Max  _(126,000 miles and counting...)

[Edit: anyway, thanks for all the discussion, was interesting reading, back to lurking]_


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

Ed Woodrick said:


> Do the numbers with a gas Ford F-150, or even better a diesel.
> 
> Superchargers are enablers, they aren't intended to be the cheapest solutions.
> 
> And don't forget that there is a difference in Supercharger prices between states that allow and don't allow per kWh charging.


I always compare to a 747 (leaving out the parking difficulties). Cars (ICE or EV) are ALWAYS cheaper per minute and per mile.


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## Madmolecule (Oct 8, 2018)

Since Tesla has proprietary DC charge connector, They have a corner on the market on high rate DC charging for Tesla’s. This is a huge problem. If you could plug-in, to a competitive DC fast charger it would bring Teslas’s prices down, I guarantee you. Tesla will be providing CCS connectors on Tesla‘s in 2023 in the United States, in my very educated opinion.


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## SalisburySam (Jun 6, 2018)

Just completed a 1300-mile trip: North Carolina to Michigan and back. Last time was 3 years ago and I was very surprised at Supercharger prices enroute. Lowest price was $0.33/kWh (may have the units wrong) in mid-Ohio and the much more common higher prices were $0.54/kWh. These numbers are more than double what I paid in 2019 at almost the same locations. Not surprising, but disappointing to be sure.

On the upside, charging was faster than I remember, likely the new/upgraded charging stations. This was a pleasant surprise, but didn’t offset the decidedly unpleasant one of cost.


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## Madmolecule (Oct 8, 2018)

tencate said:


> I understand and totally get it. But to "pick nits", wasn't there a Tweet saying something like "Supercharging will always be cheaper than gas" ? I think we've gotten to the point where that's no longer true. If you do the math above, my Model 3 is currently equivalent to a car that does 41 mpg. And there's more than a few cars like that now, an Audi A3 (pure ICE) gets 39 mpg highway for example. As gas prices drop, the "cheaper than gas" comment will be less and less true.
> 
> Just playing devil's advocate. I get a lot of these sorts of comments when our Nature Center hosts EV events and it was easy to point to my LA trip showing (1) how easy it was and (2) how cheap it was. Can't do that anymore  Mind you, I'd buy another Model 3 in a heartbeat if something happened to Max  _(126,000 miles and counting...)
> 
> [Edit: anyway, thanks for all the discussion, was interesting reading, back to lurking]_


Actually, I was told it would be free forever, but you must trust your source. Fantasy uncertainty and doubt


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## tivoboy (Mar 24, 2017)

Yeah, it’s basically 100% (2x) more expensive around here than it was two years ago.. and yet my residential loaded rate for electricity per kWh is up ~50%.

I don’t think they are gouging per se, nat gas is up about 3x ish in the past 18 months and I’m sure that is a pretty decent share of where the electricity for the SC’s comes from overall. so, it could be worse. 

That said, I do have the feeling that from our current peak rates of ~46-49 cents per kW around here, we’ll see a 15-20% reduction once the war in Ukraine is resolved and domestic nat gas isn’t being disproportionately demanded outside the USA. It’s certainly going to remain somewhat elevated for the coming years but hopefully, probably not at these levels.


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## ElectricBiker (Nov 21, 2019)

well here on the east cost, they have prime time and not prime time charging rates. so charging during the day is twice as much as it costs at the Tesla super charger after 7pm. I think the last one I was at was 28cents (non prime) so almost 60cents kilowatt hour during the day. so that adds up yes, but no way near $100 for full tank of gas at $5/gallon


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## Ed Woodrick (May 26, 2018)

ElectricBiker said:


> well here on the east cost, they have prime time and not prime time charging rates. so charging during the day is twice as much as it costs at the Tesla super charger after 7pm. I think the last one I was at was 28cents (non prime) so almost 60cents kilowatt hour during the day. so that adds up yes, but no way near $100 for full tank of gas at $5/gallon


I don't believe that is an "East coast" thing, probably a lot more local to you. It don't see it near me.


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