# Smart Summon - Historical thread for Beta version and speculation



## stlgrym3 (Nov 4, 2018)

my Model 3 is currently on 2019.8.5 version. news says the Enhanced Auto Summon should be rolling out from first week of April, so far i have not seen anything yet.

EDIT - This thread is locked for historical purposes and was the discussion of the beta and speculation about the production version of Smart Summon. To discuss the production version go to:
https://teslaownersonline.com/threads/v10-feature-smart-summon.14294/post-255619


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## PaulT (Aug 22, 2018)

He said they were pushing it a couple weeks to get it dialed in better.


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

PaulT said:


> He said they were pushing it a couple weeks to get it dialed in better.


Tweet here 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1117145305001054208


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

So where are these videos of it working on customer cars coming from? Software beta testers?


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## TeslaMilton (Dec 26, 2018)

Needsdecaf said:


> So where are these videos of it working on customer cars coming from? Software beta testers?


Customers who are part of the early access program. Essentially, early beta testers.


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

Needsdecaf said:


> Software beta testers?


Early Access program. The people that bought FSD over a year ago who haven't received anything tangible yet besides the party tricks.

Hopefully those of us will at least start setting the FSD computer retrofit


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## nonStopSwagger (May 7, 2018)

I hope it's much improved when it does come out. The beta videos look cool, but all my non Tesla friends point out (correctly) it's too slow, too short range. Just a party trick, even if it works flawlessly every time 

Still pretty cool. Now if it could drop me off and go find a parking spot on it's own, that would actually be useful. Especially if the lot was full and it had to circle for a bit until a spot freed up.


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## Lgkahn (Nov 21, 2018)

I bought far with the car. Haven't heard anything about getting early access.


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## SalisburySam (Jun 6, 2018)

StromTrooperM3 said:


> Early Access program. The people that bought FSD over a year ago who haven't received anything tangible yet besides the party tricks.
> 
> Hopefully those of us will at least start setting the FSD computer retrofit


Not all. I ordered both EAP and FSD with my vehicle delivered last July. No invitation to join early access, in fact, for many release updates I was clearly a charter member of the late access program or LAPdance as we members call it. Also, nothing so far about getting a hardware upgrade either.


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## tipton (May 21, 2018)

Would be really surprised if they released the current version hopefully improvements coming like Elon said.


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## cook_diesel (Sep 15, 2018)

I'm so glad this update was pushed back for more optimization after seeing the beta videos. I thought the speed of engagement could create a tense situation in crowded lots where tempers & patience is short.


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## Tesla blue Y (Feb 13, 2018)

it almost works. There are some problems with it. My experience.


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

SalisburySam said:


> No invitation to join early access, in fact, for many release updates I was clearly a charter member of the late access program


So you got even less. I'm starting to believe this is what is what it feels like regularly after you cut them the check


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## tipton (May 21, 2018)

StromTrooperM3 said:


> So you got even less. I'm starting to believe this is what is what it feels like regularly after you cut them the check


the regular release is actually much better than the current early access i have. so many new features in the regular release that early access doesn't have right now, aside from enhanced summon which is pretty much a party trick. not complaining, just stating the facts early access has its pluses and minuses


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## John A Bailey (May 25, 2018)

There is actually no distinct early access program. There is a large pool of owners that will be offered an occasional subset of something new. Out of thousands there may be 10 or a hundred that are offered any individual early release. I think Tesla should make this more clear especially since Elon offered the early access program as compensation for overpaying for full self driving.


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## nonStopSwagger (May 7, 2018)

Sepculating here, but I'll bet it runs much much better on HW3. No radius limitations, drives as fast as a human, obeys driving rules (stays on the correct side of lane etc).

Perhaps they are going to just skip releasing it on HW2.5, as any work in that area for FSD features is essentially throw away now that HW3.0 is out


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

tipton said:


> early access has its pluses and minuses


I'd rather have a more stable release with all the features than to test anything personally. I feel bad for everyone that paid so early and still get the short end of the stick


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## Designbot (Apr 17, 2018)

John A Bailey said:


> There is actually no distinct early access program. There is a large pool of owners that will be offered an occasional subset of something new. Out of thousands there may be 10 or a hundred that are offered any individual early release. I think Tesla should make this more clear especially since Elon offered the early access program as compensation for overpaying for full self driving.


There absolutely is a distinct Tesla Early Access Program.


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## Maynerd (Mar 17, 2018)

Bernard said:


> Laziness is definitely not in the picture here. Tesla is overoptimistic when it comes to timelines -- reflecting its leading light, Elon ;-) That's an almost defining characteristic of the company -- most of us have grown to at least tolerate it, perhaps even love it. They are proud of what they do, they want to let you know they are working on even better stuff, b ut when asked when it will be released, they almost always err on the side of too early. Factor that in, and you should no longer have any reason to complain ;-)


Still waiting on enhanced summon. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114597013176246273


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## Tesla blue Y (Feb 13, 2018)

Maynerd said:


> Still waiting on enhanced summon.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1114597013176246273


little more than a party trick when I have attempted to use it.


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

nonStopSwagger said:


> Sepculating here, but I'll bet it runs much much better on HW3. No radius limitations, drives as fast as a human, obeys driving rules (stays on the correct side of lane etc).
> 
> Perhaps they are going to just skip releasing it on HW2.5, as any work in that area for FSD features is essentially throw away now that HW3.0 is out


I'm curious to see how they handle this. If they do as you speculate its pretty crappy that Elon said there was no reason to wait for HW3 back in December. At some point, Elon saying something is going to be considered speculation.


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## nonStopSwagger (May 7, 2018)

M3OC Rules said:


> I'm curious to see how they handle this. If they do as you speculate its pretty crappy that Elon said there was no reason to wait for HW3 back in December. At some point, Elon saying something is going to be considered speculation.


As long as they can get the hw3 upgrades done quickly, it shouldn't be a problem.

The only folks who might get screwed are those who have EAP and not FSD. They may find NoA to be less capable doing lane changes for example, vs what HW3 will be capable of. Right now NoA with hw2.5 doesn't work in moderate rain.


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

nonStopSwagger said:


> The only folks who might get screwed are those who have EAP and not FSD.


Yes. Do we not like them? I would certainly be pissed if they stopped development on EAP a few months after I bought my car. Especially if they told me it wouldn't matter if I waited.

In my mind, they need to either keep developing on 2.5 or they need to make it very cheap to upgrade(at cost or below). $5k more is way too high to get what you were promised when you bought the car.


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## nonStopSwagger (May 7, 2018)

M3OC Rules said:


> Yes. Do we not like them? I would certainly be pissed if they stopped development on EAP a few months after I bought my car. Especially if they told me it wouldn't matter if I waited.
> 
> In my mind, they need to either keep developing on 2.5 or they need to make it very cheap to upgrade(at cost or below). $5k more is way too high to get what you were promised when you bought the car.


Hw2.5 is already close to capacity (80%+) for running the neural net, vs hw3 (5% with today's firmware). It may be extremely difficult or impossible to improve NoA to work in rain on 2.5.

It would be cheaper in the long run for Tesla to give EAP owners free FSD upgrades, than try and support 2 systems, especially if the older one is near the end of what it can do. Maybe just disable some features for EAP owners.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

M3OC Rules said:


> Yes. Do we not like them? I would certainly be pissed if they stopped development on EAP a few months after I bought my car.


I suspect that EAP will not include any additional features from now on.
But it will continue to benefit from the development of better neural networks.


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## Tesla blue Y (Feb 13, 2018)

garsh said:


> I suspect that EAP will not include any additional features from now on.
> But it will continue to benefit from the development of better neural networks.


My experience is it is in fact improving. I used to have a lot of false starts when doing a lane change on NOA. Now letting the car change my itself much smoother. It still is a little timid in heavy traffic but will go if I turn the signal on to indicate I want to move. I am on HW2.5


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## nonStopSwagger (May 7, 2018)

Tesla blue 3 said:


> My experience is it is in fact improving. I used to have a lot of false starts when doing a lane change on NOA. Now letting the car change my itself much smoother. It still is a little timid in heavy traffic but will go if I turn the signal on to indicate I want to move. I am on HW2.5


Absolutely, Tesla will continue to make small improvements to NoA for hardware 2.5 until hw 3 is demonstratively surpassing it in customer cars. After that (especially when HW 3 upgrades are under way) I'd expect them to limit hw 2.5 to mostly regulatory/safety/bug improvements and fixes, similar to what happened with AP1 cars once AP2 surpassed it. HW 2.5 AP/EAP are already feature complete.

Eventually I think HW2.5 drivers who like AP will cave and upgrade to HW 3 after they see some of the extra potential. Reduced steering wheel nags (eventually eliminated at some point early next year). Working in all weather conditions (hard rain, snow etc). And eventually being able to use the car without a driver to run errands (pick up kids after practice, grocery pickup, Tesla taxi network etc).


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## Scubastevo80 (Jul 2, 2018)

nonStopSwagger said:


> Absolutely, Tesla will continue to make small improvements to NoA for hardware 2.5 until hw 3 is demonstratively surpassing it in customer cars. After that (especially when HW 3 upgrades are under way) I'd expect them to limit hw 2.5 to mostly regulatory/safety/bug improvements and fixes, similar to what happened with AP1 cars once AP2 surpassed it. HW 2.5 AP/EAP are already feature complete.
> 
> Eventually I think HW2.5 drivers who like AP will cave and upgrade to HW 3 after they see some of the extra potential. Reduced steering wheel nags (eventually eliminated at some point early next year). Working in all weather conditions (hard rain, snow etc). And eventually being able to use the car without a driver to run errands (pick up kids after practice, grocery pickup, Tesla taxi network etc).


Those of us with HW2.5 with EAP may not be likely to upgrade to FSD and HW3.0 given the cost. I am happy to drive myself on non-highways given the current state of autopilot. I would however, certainly pay for the ability to have my kids carted around without my wife or me in the car. She is looking to start her own business, and this would be huge if we could do this without having to worry about someone calling DYFS/DCF on us.


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## turnem (Apr 26, 2019)

Scubastevo80 said:


> Those of us with HW2.5 with EAP may not be likely to upgrade to FSD and HW3.0 given the cost. I am happy to drive myself on non-highways given the current state of autopilot. I would however, certainly pay for the ability to have my kids carted around without my wife or me in the car. She is looking to start her own business, and this would be huge if we could do this without having to worry about someone calling DYFS/DCF on us.


I love what Tesla is doing with Autopilot and I'm a big believer in their ability to achieve their goals. Having said that... it is going to take a LOT for me to be comfortable putting my kids in a car that drives itself without a licensed driver at the helm!! I'm not personally convinced that we will get to that level in the next 10 years but I'd love to be proven wrong.


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

nonStopSwagger said:


> Eventually I think HW2.5 drivers who like AP will cave and upgrade to HW 3 after they see some of the extra potential.


You might be right that this is Tesla's thought process but that's not ok.



nonStopSwagger said:


> HW 2.5 AP/EAP are already feature complete.


Actually, they have not delivered what they said they will deliver with enhanced summon. Furthermore, many features are in Beta. Is it ok for them to stop the development of these features and leave them in beta forever as a way to encourage you to pay them more?


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## nonStopSwagger (May 7, 2018)

M3OC Rules said:


> Actually, they have not delivered what they said they will deliver with enhanced summon. Furthermore, many features are in Beta. Is it ok for them to stop the development of these features and leave them in beta forever as a way to encourage you to pay them more?


Good points, and I agree.

I don't think Tesla really cares about never taking things out of BETA. Ask AP1 owners, they will probably give you an earful on that front. I believe Tesla are the ones using the term feature complete. Which honestly is meaningless and translates to "the car can technically do it, but it may not work for you at this moment, and may kill you if you don't watch it like a hawk".

As for cars not having ES, tesla does list it on their sales website as part of what is currently in cars right now if you design one. They show other features (stop lights/signs, city driving) coming later this year. Clearly misleading to say the least.

Honestly, if they only give me one more thing that works as part of FSD, make the nag go away


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

M3OC Rules said:


> Actually, they have not delivered what they said they will deliver with enhanced summon.


Enhanced summon will probably be the last new feature added to EAP.


M3OC Rules said:


> Furthermore, many features are in Beta. Is it ok for them to stop the development of these features and leave them in beta forever as a way to encourage you to pay them more?


Tesla will continue to develop and improve the existing features - those features are also part of FSD.


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## Scubastevo80 (Jul 2, 2018)

garsh said:


> Enhanced summon will probably be the last new feature added to EAP.
> 
> Tesla will continue to develop and improve the existing features - those features are also part of FSD.


Garsh - I agree. Only those features included on FSD like stop-light/stop-sign handling and "go park yourself, car" will be isolated to FSD software cars. If NOA or enhanced summon get better for FSD, I also expect them to improve for EAP owners.


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## nonStopSwagger (May 7, 2018)

Scubastevo80 said:


> Garsh - I agree. Only those features included on FSD like stop-light/stop-sign handling and "go park yourself, car" will be isolated to FSD software cars. If NOA or enhanced summon get better for FSD, I also expect them to improve for EAP owners.


Tesla stopped making HW 2.5 cars for a reason. I personally think NoA with HW 2.5 is not great, and the average driver can do a much better job. Summon with HW 2.5 is super slow (3 mph?), really just a party trick, and has "issues" if you have seen it in person. Will tesla improve these features on HW 2.5 cars? Absolutely. Will these features run way better on a HW3 car? Absolutely.

HW 3 cars with NoA will drive way better than the average driver. Elon said it himself.
HW 3 cars with advanced summon will be much faster. You will think it was a human driving it. Also I expect HW 3 cars to not need to be within line of sight of the owner to drive (otherwise the tesla network would not be possible either).
HW 3 cars will not be impacted by weather. NoA today stops working completely in moderate rain, the NN in HW 2.5 is unable to filter out the noise.
The Hardware 3 Computer can process 2,300 frames-per-second versus 110 frames-per-second with Hardware 2.5. Its not going to be physically possible to make NoA or Advanced Summon on a HW 2.5 car as good as a hardware 3 car.


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## HCD3 (Mar 3, 2019)

nonStopSwagger said:


> Tesla stopped making HW 2.5 cars for a reason. I personally think NoA with HW 2.5 is not great, and the average driver can do a much better job. Summon with HW 2.5 is super slow (3 mph?), really just a party trick, and has "issues" if you have seen it in person. Will tesla improve these features on HW 2.5 cars? Absolutely. Will these features run way better on a HW3 car? Absolutely.
> 
> HW 3 cars with NoA will drive way better than the average driver. Elon said it himself.
> HW 3 cars with advanced summon will be much faster. You will think it was a human driving it. Also I expect HW 3 cars to not need to be within line of sight of the owner to drive (otherwise the tesla network would not be possible either).
> ...


Does that mean that those of us who purchased FSD will get the new HW 3?


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## Rick Steinwand (May 19, 2018)

HCD3 said:


> Does that mean that those of us who purchased FSD will get the new HW 3?


Yes.


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## nonStopSwagger (May 7, 2018)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1111762533520531456


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

nonStopSwagger said:


> As for cars not having ES, tesla does list it on their sales website as part of what is currently in cars right now if you design one. They show other features (stop lights/signs, city driving) coming later this year. Clearly misleading to say the least.


This is ultimately the problem. They are saying misleading things to sell the cars now and worrying about the consequences later. I don't want to think of Elon as a car salesman but ...


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## HCD3 (Mar 3, 2019)

Rick Steinwand said:


> Yes.


Thanks Rick. Now we just have to find a way around Trumps 25% tariffs on the HW3 computers. Hopefully that won't put too much of a crimp on further FSD development.


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## RichEV (Sep 21, 2017)

HCD3 said:


> Thanks Rick. Now we just have to find a way around Trumps 25% tariffs on the HW3 computers. Hopefully that won't put too much of a crimp on further FSD development.


Oh no! Now there are tariffs on goods from Texas? ...Samsung is producing the new Tesla-designed chip in Austin, Texas


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## HCD3 (Mar 3, 2019)

RichEV said:


> Oh no! Now there are tariffs on goods from Texas? ...Samsung is producing the new Tesla-designed chip in Austin, Texas


But the computer is assembled in China. Hence the tariff.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/03/us-rejects-teslas-bid-for-tariff-exemption-for-model-3-brain.html


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

RichEV said:


> Oh no! Now there are tariffs on goods from Texas? ...Samsung is producing the new Tesla-designed chip in Austin, Texas


Chips are made in Texas, but not the boards on which they're placed, apparently.
https://teslaownersonline.com/threads/when-will-retrofit-hw3-start.12152/#post-231396


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## escondidos (Nov 27, 2017)

Using Early Access for some time. Had and used Enhanced Summon. It worked fairly well in big open parking lots. Does not work at all on my private gravel road into my property. However, it seems to have been removed after the last update I got recently (2019.12.2 5c87371).

*Has anyone else with Enhanced Summon seen it disappear?* Current Android app is version 3.8.4.


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## Tesla blue Y (Feb 13, 2018)

escondidos said:


> Using Early Access for some time. Had and used Enhanced Summon. It worked fairly well in big open parking lots. Does not work at all on my private gravel road into my property. However, it seems to have been removed after the last update I got recently (2019.12.2 5c87371).
> 
> *Has anyone else with Enhanced Summon seen it disappear?* Current Android app is version 3.8.4.


yes I didn't have any success with it however


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

escondidos said:


> Using Early Access for some time. Had and used Enhanced Summon. It worked fairly well in big open parking lots. Does not work at all on my private gravel road into my property. However, it seems to have been removed after the last update I got recently (2019.12.2 5c87371).
> 
> *Has anyone else with Enhanced Summon seen it disappear?* Current Android app is version 3.8.4.


if you upgraded, you likely went back to a standard (non TEAP BETA) release and Enhanced Summon hasn't been released as part of the standard FW releases yet.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

myanonm3 said:


> * seem still not so practical - not faster than walk to the car


Lots of situations where that's helpful:

--It's pouring rain
--You've got a lot of packages
--It's late at night, and the parking lot seems sketchy
--You're mobility impaired


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## Tmo6 (Jul 3, 2018)

DocScott said:


> Lots of situations where that's helpful:
> 
> --It's pouring rain
> --You've got a lot of packages
> ...


Also, ES is just a great way to test FSD abilities features off of public roads

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## hdgmedic (Jun 8, 2017)

Tmo6 said:


> Also, ES is just a great way to test FSD abilities features off of public roads
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


And when it is really, really cold outside and the car is parked far, far away.


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## nonStopSwagger (May 7, 2018)

hdgmedic said:


> And when it is really, really cold outside and the car is parked far, far away.


By far far away, you mean 150ft, or less? 😀

My hope is over the next few years, the limit gets longer, and eventually goes away. I think robo taxi goes live next year (end of 2020?), so probably at around that time for hw3 cars.


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## nonStopSwagger (May 7, 2018)

One other thought on enchanced summon. It's almost a year since Elon announced it would be coming in -6 weeks. My feeling is they have put a lot of pressure on themselves after the April 22nd autonomy day. The Tesla hating media will have a field day if it is anything other than stunning.


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## Ksb466 (Oct 22, 2018)

nonStopSwagger said:


> One other thought on enchanced summon. It's almost a year since Elon announced it would be coming in -6 weeks. My feeling is they have put a lot of pressure on themselves after the April 22nd autonomy day. The Tesla hating media will have a field day if it is anything other than stunning.


Completely agree with your last sentence. This will be a tough on once broadly released to manage from a PR perspective. Even if it's very good and not running over cars and people videos of quirky car behavior will be plentiful.

And I came to believe Elon's definition of "releasing in the next 6 weeks" means releasing to anyone in the universe, not the broad suite of owners. From there it undergoes many rounds of testing, which, in this case brings us to 9 months later. Not complaining about that, just see it as the reality.


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## hdgmedic (Jun 8, 2017)

nonStopSwagger said:


> By far far away, you mean 150ft, or less? 😀
> 
> My hope is over the next few years, the limit gets longer, and eventually goes away. I think robo taxi goes live next year (end of 2020?), so probably at around that time for hw3 cars.


150ft is quite far when it is nighttime and the windchill is -20F. Try it sometime. :fearful:


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

hdgmedic said:


> 150ft is quite far when it is nighttime and the windchill is -20F. Try it sometime. :fearful:


Only if you can summon the car to you faster than you can walk to it. Plus, if it's down to -20°F with the windchill, you'll be bundled up; taking your gloves off to use your phone seems impractical.


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

iChris93 said:


> Only if you can summon the car to you faster than you can walk to it. Plus, if it's down to -20°F with the windchill, you'll be bundled up; taking your gloves off to use your phone seems impractical.


That's why you wait inside.


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

M3OC Rules said:


> That's why you wait inside.


Sure, if you can. My parking lot at work is 0.3 miles away from my office.


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## hdgmedic (Jun 8, 2017)

iChris93 said:


> Sure, if you can. My parking lot at work is 0.3 miles away from my office.


Then you obviously wouldn't use it. A person who is within 150ft, standing inside a warm building, watching the warm car pull up would use it. Perhaps when the range increases, you won't have to walk 0.3 miles to your car in the freezing cold. Unless, you don't feel like waiting the few momemts it takes for the car to pull up. I think many other people would.


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

hdgmedic said:


> Perhaps when the range increases, you won't have to walk 0.3 miles to your car in the freezing cold. Unless, you don't feel like waiting the few momemts it takes for the car to pull up. I think many other people would.


I absolutely would. I'm looking forward to that day.


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## Jason F (Jul 6, 2018)

nonStopSwagger said:


> By far far away, you mean 150ft, or less? 😀
> 
> My hope is over the next few years, the limit gets longer, and eventually goes away. I think robo taxi goes live next year (end of 2020?), so probably at around that time for hw3 cars.


No way a robotaxi service is happening end of 2020. Maybe 2030, but by then it would be on a completely different model car.


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

I would love to see a test where multiple cars are asked to perform the same enhanced summon tests and see how they react differently or if they even choose the same path. I bet the differences will be surprising.


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## SalisburySam (Jun 6, 2018)

I greatly look forward to the day when my Dumb Summon works at all, let alone something more advanced.


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## turnem (Apr 26, 2019)

SalisburySam said:


> I greatly look forward to the day when my Dumb Summon works at all, let alone something more advanced.


I haven't used this feature many times but when I have it's worked flawlessly for me. Does yours ever work? Or is it failing in certain situations?


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## Rick Steinwand (May 19, 2018)

As much as I want Advanced Summon, I'd appreciate it more if basic Summon worked when people are watching, like last night on my nephew's farm (in the MN boonies). Even tho I had driven it to their farm an hour earlier, when asked if I could move my 3 so they could shoot hoops, I had trouble waking it (took almost 3 minutes), then had connection issues after it moved backwards less than an inch. Totally embarrassed (and with 10 people watching), I climbed in the car and backed it up myself. Hours later when it was time to leave, with one person watching, I pulled it ahead and was impressed when it steered a bit to the right to avoid the basketball hoop's base. (Is it shy?) After 5 more people showed up, again I was able to get it to back up. This isn't the first time I've had trouble with basic summon. In the last 6 months, it fails three times out of four, yet trouble with door unlocking and driving is rare. Prior to that, I had good luck with Summon.


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## Rick Steinwand (May 19, 2018)

SalisburySam said:


> I greatly look forward to the day when my Dumb Summon works at all, let alone something more advanced.


Could it be related to a poor cell signal? I know I have trouble in small towns and farms.


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## dburkland (Nov 12, 2018)

Rick Steinwand said:


> Could it be related to a poor cell signal?


Absolutely, I have similar issues where I can barely get it to work in my parking garage since my cell phone has like 1 bar of 3G (flaky af). I'm curious to know what enhancements they made to make activation of summon so much quicker, maybe they do direct authentication with the car now rather than issuing an API call to their home servers?


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## Rick Steinwand (May 19, 2018)

ND and rural MN are very bad areas for AT&T, which I think I remember Tesla uses. Pretty much anything but Verizon fails here.


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## dburkland (Nov 12, 2018)

Rick Steinwand said:


> ND and rural MN are very bad areas for AT&T, which I think I remember Tesla uses. Pretty much anything but Verizon fails here.


Yep, you could always hotspot off your phone especially if you have verizon or a usable-cell service from your phone. With that said it would be nice if they put a more compact Starlink antenna in the cars for cell service backup


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## JustTheTip (Jun 7, 2018)

Looks like 1 week = 3 months and counting in Elon time. lol

Can’t wait for the rollout though. Then all the accidents and wheel scrapes and people demanding Tesla pay for the repairs.


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## TheeCatzMeow (Feb 8, 2019)

Rick Steinwand said:


> As much as I want Advanced Summon, I'd appreciate it more if basic Summon worked when people are watching, like last night on my nephew's farm (in the MN boonies). Even tho I had driven it to their farm an hour earlier, when asked if I could move my 3 so they could shoot hoops, I had trouble waking it (took almost 3 minutes), then had connection issues after it moved backwards less than an inch. Totally embarrassed (and with 10 people watching), I climbed in the car and backed it up myself. Hours later when it was time to leave, with one person watching, I pulled it ahead and was impressed when it steered a bit to the right to avoid the basketball hoop's base. (Is it shy?) After 5 more people showed up, again I was able to get it to back up. This isn't the first time I've had trouble with basic summon. In the last 6 months, it fails three times out of four, yet trouble with door unlocking and driving is rare. Prior to that, I had good luck with Summon.


Guessing its your phone and not the car. I had a Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge all bluetooth functions of the phone were terrible with the car. Upgraded to Samsung Galaxy S10+ not only have I had 0 issues at all since having the phone for 4 months but its even better (meaning faster and feature rich) then I've seen any car interact with a cellphone.


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## swanson21 (Mar 5, 2019)

my "dumb summon" works well, but you have to not block the location sensor on your phone, if you hold your phone with just the fingertips it tends to help keep that location sensor happy


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

I feel like any connection issues with summon were resolved 6-9 months ago. But I'm spoiled always on the latest iPhone. Remember that data connections must be reliable, so your phone, its app, its bluetooth stack, as well as wifi and data service need to all be in top shape for regular and enhanced summon to work well. Bluetooth always has weird issues especially with older and off-brand phones. Try turning bluetooth off and back on, or rebooting the phone, same as if you had issues unlocking your car. If you are in a location with poor cell or wifi, then things won't work great. Keep these thoughts in the back of your head the next time summon (or unlocking) isn't working right and see if that helps deduce why. It really has been working spectacularly, though I don't use it very often. Including the enhanced versions...


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## SalisburySam (Jun 6, 2018)

Rick Steinwand said:


> Could it be related to a poor cell signal? I know I have trouble in small towns and farms.





turnem said:


> I haven't used this feature many times but when I have it's worked flawlessly for me. Does yours ever work? Or is it failing in certain situations?


It worked quite well when I first got the car a year ago with 2018.24.8. After the first firmware update it got flaky and hasn't worked since including on 2019.20.4.4 which is my current release. Just another gimmick I paid for with EAP/FSD that, for me, doesn't work along with phantom braking, and auto park.


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## Ksb466 (Oct 22, 2018)

Many times the logical spot to run Summon ( garage or driveway) is on the boarder line of a wifi’s Range, so connections can easily drop. I find it better to just turn off WiFi when using summon in many of my uses.


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## Jobine (Sep 12, 2018)

By reading this text on the Tesla Canada website, do you think they will really offer the Enhanced Auto Summon in Canada ?


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## wackojacko (Sep 1, 2017)

Jobine said:


> By reading this text on the Tesla Canada website, do you think they will really offer the Enhanced Auto Summon in Canada ?


I believe so. Maybe not in August, but by the end of the year is my guess. Regular summon took a while for the model 3.


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## Tesla blue Y (Feb 13, 2018)

wackojacko said:


> I believe so. Maybe not in August, but by the end of the year is my guess. Regular summon took a while for the model 3.


enhanced summons has not been release into the wilds in the USA. I believe it is in the Beta releases only at this time.


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## wackojacko (Sep 1, 2017)

Tesla blue 3 said:


> enhanced summons has not been release into the wilds in the USA. I believe it is in the Beta releases only at this time.


Yeah I've read an August release "into the wild" for the US. I suspect for Canada some time in the Fall based on the delay between US and Canada for regular summon on the Model 3. Of course this is just my guess/hope


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## nonStopSwagger (May 7, 2018)

wackojacko said:


> Yeah I've read an August release "into the wild" for the US. I suspect for Canada some time in the Fall based on the delay between US and Canada for regular summon on the Model 3. Of course this is just my guess/hope


Elon mentioned it will be in wide release by August 16th. If that's the case, rollout will probably start second week in August, and ramp up as it approaches that date.


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## Tesla blue Y (Feb 13, 2018)

nonStopSwagger said:


> Elon mentioned it will be in wide release by August 16th. If that's the case, rollout will probably start second week in August, and ramp up as it approaches that date.


I hope the functionality has vastly improved from the last I saw.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

AROUND August 16th. in ElonTime; the difference between "BY" and "AROUND" is significant.


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## SalisburySam (Jun 6, 2018)

August 16th. Once again, lacking the specificity of a year.


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## turnem (Apr 26, 2019)

Tesla blue 3 said:


> I hope the functionality has vastly improved from the last I saw.


Agree. I'm guessing we are within 3 months of getting it. I'll be pleasantly surprised if we get it in August but I'm not counting on it. I suspect we'll have it by November at the latest.


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## nonStopSwagger (May 7, 2018)

turnem said:


> Agree. I'm guessing we are within 3 months of getting it. I'll be pleasantly surprised if we get it in August but I'm not counting on it. I suspect we'll have it by November at the latest.


3 months maybe, 6 months definitely

I hope its jaw dropping when it comes out. Way better than shown in prior demos. Obey lane markings, drive on the correct side/direction in the lot, etc. Might need HW3 to get it to that level, but I'm ok with waiting a little longer. Also would like it to start to do more useful things, like driving around a parking lot after it drops me off until it finds a place to park.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

nonStopSwagger said:


> 3 months maybe, 6 months definitely
> 
> I hope its jaw dropping when it comes out. Way better than shown in prior demos. Obey lane markings, drive on the correct side/direction in the lot, etc. Might need HW3 to get it to that level, but I'm ok with waiting a little longer. Also would like it to start to do more useful things, like driving around a parking lot after it drops me off until it finds a place to park.


It seems to me unlikely that HW3 would be necessary for any of that.

The only thing HW3 does, as far as I know, is process images much, much, more quickly. So it can make better use of multiple cameras, and it can figure out what's happening at highway speed more quickly. It's necessary to have that if you're going to really trust the car to drive itself on highways (i.e. L4 autonomy).

But that's not really what you need for good enhanced summon. The speeds will be pretty slow (maybe up to 15 mph eventually), and the car mostly needs to be focussed on the direction it's going. Fast image processing just isn't that important under those circumstances.

On the other hand, the environment is extremely complex. Cars and people (and maybe runaway shopping carts) mixed together, moving in every direction, starting and stopping, not paying much attention to traffic rules. That requires a really well-trained neural net or a very impressive set of heuristics--or, most likely, both.


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## turnem (Apr 26, 2019)

nonStopSwagger said:


> 3 months maybe, 6 months definitely
> 
> I hope its jaw dropping when it comes out. Way better than shown in prior demos. Obey lane markings, drive on the correct side/direction in the lot, etc. Might need HW3 to get it to that level, but I'm ok with waiting a little longer. Also would like it to start to do more useful things, like driving around a parking lot after it drops me off until it finds a place to park.


If I had to guess... I think it will come out within 3 months and it will be underwhelming to most folks with a lot of quirks. With 9-12 months of being released it may be closer to what you are hoping for but it's not likely to be jaw dropping in the next 12 months.

I hope I'm wrong though!!


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## TrevP (Oct 20, 2015)

Latest look at enhanced summon in the early access program. Definitely improving but still needs a lot of work if you ask me


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

TrevP said:


> Latest look at enhanced summon in the early access program. Definitely improving but still needs a lot of work if you ask me


the video narrator seems pretty confident that self park will be part of the V10 release. I don't think that is going to be in the initial v10 release and going to get a ton of people thinking "but this random guy in a video said it would park within the lines....!"


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## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

I REALLY hope they don't release this in v10, if v10 is coming in August-September. It will be a PR nightmare.

Until it can drive on the right side of the road, I REALLY don't think it should. Think of the backlash that's going to happen when people start testing it and it creates traffic jams in the parking lot. The user will have to run over to the car and jump in to resolve it. Those people that get inconvenienced will not have a good experience with Tesla. 

"I got things to do and this Tesla owner just blocked me in with their car. Great! The nerve of some people. Who do they think they are?!"


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

airj1012 said:


> I REALLY hope they don't release this in v10, if v10 is coming in August-September. It will be a PR nightmare.
> 
> Until it can drive on the right side of the road, I REALLY don't think it should. Think of the backlash that's going to happen when people start testing it and it creates traffic jams in the parking lot. The user will have to run over to the car and jump in to resolve it. Those people that get inconvenienced will not have a good experience with Tesla.
> 
> "I got things to do and this Tesla owner just blocked me in with their car. Great! The nerve of some people. Who do they think they are?!"


This illustrates just how tough self-driving features are to implement.

In my part of the country, the vast majority of people pay no attention to "right side" in a parking lot, or to lanes marked for travel in a given direction. A car that _did_ try to drive that way would itself cause some confusion.

A human adjusts pretty quickly to the driving customs and environment, both regionally (people do such-and-such in such-and-such city) and in their immediate environment (people in this parking lot are doing such-and-such). Until self-driving develops those kinds of traits it's always going to be off sometimes. (And maybe it never will; maybe autonomy over time will just flatten driving habits to become more similar across the country.)


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

people driving thru parking lots are not particularly good at going where they are supposed to either. 
IE... I spent the day at a construction site in an existing mall where the parking lot was just repaved and slightly adjusted. This one particular area was only painted (instead of having a landscape island at the end of the parking row) so the largest firetruck can make the corner (if there isn't a car parked here). we stood there watching every single car that drove thru this area ignoring the painted lines and going straight over the parking spaces. 
(the black honda is moving, the van follows at the exact same path).


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## raptor (May 6, 2018)

Anyone have any idea which EAP firmware version the car in this video is running?


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## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

MelindaV said:


> people driving thru parking lots are not particularly good at going where they are supposed to either.
> IE... I spent the day at a construction site in an existing mall where the parking lot was just repaved and slightly adjusted. This one particular area was only painted (instead of having a landscape island at the end of the parking row) so the largest firetruck can make the corner (if there isn't a car parked here). we stood there watching every single car that drove thru this area ignoring the painted lines and going straight over the parking spaces.
> (the black honda is moving, the van follows at the exact same path).


Regardless of the lines, if a human driver came face to face with another human driver, those two would be able to mitigate the situation and avoid each other. However with Tesla, if it was lined up with another car in front of it, it isn't going to break the rules and go around it by driving over painted lines. AP is great because a human drive can take over when it's not operating perfectly. That doesn't exist with Smart Summon.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

airj1012 said:


> However with Tesla, if it was lined up with another car in front of it, it isn't going to break the rules and go around it by driving over painted lines.


Maybe. Maybe not. That remains to be seen.

Autopilot will completely ignore lines while trying to avoid a collision - it has a notion of "driveable space" that it makes full use of in those situations.


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## Dogwhistle (Jul 2, 2017)

Unless enhanced summon is WAY better than the most recent beta release, it will remain a cute party trick only to be used in empty (or at least static) parking lots with no other traffic.


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## Dogwhistle (Jul 2, 2017)

raptor said:


> Anyone have any idea which EAP firmware version the car in this video is running?


Pretty sure the most recent Beta containing enhanced summon is still 20.4.6


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

raptor said:


> Anyone have any idea which EAP firmware version the car in this video is running?


The latest EAP update is still back at 19.20.4.6



Dogwhistle said:


> Unless enhanced summon is WAY better than the most recent beta release, it will remain a cute party trick only to be used in empty (or at least static) parking lots with no other traffic.


Sure, it's a party trick, but it is jaw-dropping, and exponentially more impressive than the old summon party trick.
In reality it is quite useful, maybe not yet good enough in a busy place, but great in most lots, or in my case I use it regularly to move the car around the driveway, where I often need the car to turn.
It's a difficult decision to release, because it is a great tool to have, but of course is never ever going to be able to handle every situation, and there are millions of corner cases. So when they release it, people are going to find those and harp on them. 
Perhaps they would have been better releasing in its infancy where folks did not have so much time to build their expectations and can instead appreciate the incremental improvements. Look at parking mode for example, that is still next to useless, but folks aren't riled up about it because they already understand its limitations.


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## raptor (May 6, 2018)

Tesla should use the web browser to run a tutorial, with a little quiz, before enabling it (and for AP as well).


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## Dogwhistle (Jul 2, 2017)

JWardell said:


> The latest EAP update is still back at 19.20.4.6
> 
> Sure, it's a party trick, but it is jaw-dropping, and exponentially more impressive than the old summon party trick.
> In reality it is quite useful, maybe not yet good enough in a busy place, but great in most lots, or in my case I use it regularly to move the car around the driveway, where I often need the car to turn.
> ...


I guess its OK in your own driveway, but I think most people are expecting to use it in public parking lots. As it is, it is:
1) Still too slow
2) Ignores proper side of lane to be driving on
3) Ignores other cars until close enough to treat them as obstacles
4) Likes to stop crossways when it reaches you, blocking both lanes of traffic (can't "pull up to the curb")

There will be much parking lot rage if the masses start using it regularly!


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

Dogwhistle said:


> I guess its OK in your own driveway, but I think most people are expecting to use it in public parking lots. As it is, it is:
> 1) Still too slow
> 2) Ignores proper side of lane to be driving on
> 3) Ignores other cars until close enough to treat them as obstacles
> ...


It is much faster now and I think acceptable. 
It has always pulled up to me in the right orientation, but really it just goes to a point, and will be in the orientation it needs to get there. It also draws its planned route on your phone so this shouldn't be a surprise. 
Yes, it is not making any attempt to perform driving norms with other traffic in a large parking lot, but it's great for a small lot, private lot, or one without traffic. 
And it's absolutely a spectacular parlor trick.
Remember, at any given point, each Tesla feature is the worst it will be...they are always improving!


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

JWardell said:


> Perhaps they would have been better releasing in its infancy where folks did not have so much time to build their expectations and can instead appreciate the incremental improvements. Look at parking mode for example, that is still next to useless, but folks aren't riled up about it because they already understand its limitations.


Elon overhyped this one early on, with his description of the car driving around the lot reading parking signs.

I always like it when Elon underhypes stuff, while still stressing the excitement of progress. At one point with SpaceX he said something like "at least it should explode for a different reason next time." He's at last gotten to that point with Smart Summon, too, saying that finally "it almost doesn't suck." That's a better tack to take, I think.


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

DocScott said:


> Elon overhyped this one early on, with his description of the car driving around the lot reading parking signs.
> 
> I always like it when Elon underhypes stuff, while still stressing the excitement of progress. At one point with SpaceX he said something like "at least it should explode for a different reason next time." He's at last gotten to that point with Smart Summon, too, saying that finally "it almost doesn't suck." That's a better tack to take, I think.


True, but because Tesla is constantly doubted and has billions bet against it, he has to paint the best picture. SpaceX is private so his words don't affect it as much


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## tipton (May 21, 2018)

JWardell said:


> It is much faster now and I think acceptable.
> It has always pulled up to me in the right orientation, but really it just goes to a point, and will be in the orientation it needs to get there. It also draws its planned route on your phone so this shouldn't be a surprise.
> Yes, it is not making any attempt to perform driving norms with other traffic in a large parking lot, but it's great for a small lot, private lot, or one without traffic.
> And it's absolutely a spectacular parlor trick.
> Remember, at any given point, each Tesla feature is the worst it will be...they are always improving!


yep, it has gotten so so much better. i don't trust it nearly enough to use in even a somewhat busy parking lot as it is now. no doubt people will try to use it in crazy situations that it shouldn't be used in which the media will pounce on like anything Tesla related. not saying it shouldn't be released or anything like that but I just hope they don't rush it our since everyone keeps asking for it.


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## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

JWardell said:


> Yes, it is not making any attempt to perform driving norms with other traffic in a large parking lot, but it's great for a small lot, private lot, or one without traffic.
> And it's absolutely a spectacular parlor trick.
> Remember, at any given point, each Tesla feature is the worst it will be...they are always improving!


This is why I believe it should remain in early access program for now. I think it's great that they're still working on it and its getting better, but I don't think it belongs with the general public to test out. Those in early access program are fairly small. Compared to all the external drivers that would be annoyed with hundreds of thousands of Tesla owners trying this out.

I highly doubt this will be released with v10. Elon said it's starting to suck less. But that means it still sucks. I don't think he'll be comfortable with shipping this product just yet.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

airj1012 said:


> This is why I believe it should remain in early access program for now. I think it's great that they're still working on it and its getting better, but I don't think it belongs with the general public to test out. Those in early access program are fairly small. Compared to all the external drivers that would be annoyed with hundreds of thousands of Tesla owners trying this out.
> 
> I highly doubt this will be released with v10. Elon said it's starting to suck less. But that means it still sucks. I don't think he'll be comfortable with shipping this product just yet.


The operator is still supposed to be in line of sight. Most owners will quickly learn the situations in which it causes problems, and not use it in those situations. Same as, e.g., AP and NOA. The net result is that those kinds of features sometimes cause minor annoyance to other drivers, but are not a constant pain/hazard, because owners learn not to use them in situations where they do poorly or to override them if they're causing trouble.


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## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

DocScott said:


> The operator is still supposed to be in line of sight. Most owners will quickly learn the situations in which it causes problems, and not use it in those situations. Same as, e.g., AP and NOA. The net result is that those kinds of features sometimes cause minor annoyance to other drivers, but are not a constant pain/hazard, because owners learn not to use them in situations where they do poorly or to override them if they're causing trouble.


Yes what happens when 200K owners trying it out for the first time? If 10% of those instances annoy another driver, that's a lot of people. A PR nightmare. I don't think anyone is going to be harmed, but the other drive is going to have to wait for the Tesla driver to run over to their car, and resolve the situation, Not reacting within a few seconds of green light can get you a honk, this would be worse.


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

It's true, that if the current software only fails 0.1% of the time, thousands of people will have scratched paint and fender benders to contend with and the press will have a field day. 
They need a way to do some kind of opt-in after training and agreement. (I could say the same for some other Tesla tech as well...)


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

JWardell said:


> It's true, that if the current software only fails 0.1% of the time, thousands of people will have scratched paint and fender benders to contend with and the press will have a field day.
> They need a way to do some kind of opt-in after training and agreement. (I could say the same for some other Tesla tech as well...)


That's a different kind of fail. I don't think Smart Summon will _ever_ run in to another car. (Low speeds and ultrasonic sensors!) The more common problem will be Smart Summon freezing up, refusing to move at all, and blocking someone else in the process.


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

DocScott said:


> That's a different kind of fail. I don't think Smart Summon will _ever_ run in to another car. (Low speeds and ultrasonic sensors!) The more common problem will be Smart Summon freezing up, refusing to move at all, and blocking someone else in the process.


I agree however that autonomous taxi in Las Vegas showed that you also need to get out of the way sometimes. Even though it wasn't the fault of the taxi per se they blame the taxi for not getting out of the way because a human driver would have.


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## John (Apr 16, 2016)

People hitting each other in parking lots is an everyday thing. Especially any parking lot where almost everybody is in and out pretty frequently, like a post office. 

So Tesla is not suddenly going to statistically move the needle on people donking each other in parking lots. 

There won’t be a hue and cry to stop the Tesla Advanced Summon carnage. A few titillating stories, but that’s just Tuesday for Tesla.


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## John (Apr 16, 2016)

I look forward to the day that a reporter runs up to an editor talking about a Tesla clonking into another car in a parking lot and the editor says, "Johnson, are you _seriously _saying we should cover a fender bender in a parking lot?"


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

DocScott said:


> That's a different kind of fail. I don't think Smart Summon will _ever_ run in to another car. (Low speeds and ultrasonic sensors!) The more common problem will be Smart Summon freezing up, refusing to move at all, and blocking someone else in the process.


...so you're worried enhanced summon will behave just like half the humans do in a parking lot?


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## nonStopSwagger (May 7, 2018)

Anyone think this will still be released tomorrow? Elons recent tweet along the lines of "it still sucks" tells me it's going to be a long way off.


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## tipton (May 21, 2018)

It's still not great i wouldn't expect it till version 10 at the earliest which is pretty much what Elon tweeted


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## stlgrym3 (Nov 4, 2018)

i still have not gotten the enhanced auto-summon software upgrade yet, is it because i only have EAP and not the FSD? is FSD a requirement for enhanced auto-summon?


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## nonStopSwagger (May 7, 2018)

stlgrym3 said:


> i still have not gotten the enhanced auto-summon software upgrade yet, is it because i only have EAP and not the FSD? is FSD a requirement for enhanced auto-summon?


Earlier this week Elon announced it has been delayed for another 4-8 weeks. Although, he has been saying this since last November.


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

stlgrym3 said:


> i still have not gotten the enhanced auto-summon software upgrade yet, is it because i only have EAP and not the FSD? is FSD a requirement for enhanced auto-summon?


Enhanced Summon will be included for those that purchased Enhanced Autopilot.


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## NJturtlePower (Dec 19, 2017)

airj1012 said:


> Regardless of the lines, if a human driver came face to face with another human driver, those two would be able to mitigate the situation and avoid each other. However with Tesla, if it was lined up with another car in front of it, it isn't going to break the rules and go around it by driving over painted lines. AP is great because a human drive can take over when it's not operating perfectly. That doesn't exist with Smart Summon.


EXACTLY what I've been saying since the start of this whole project... humans in general are absolutely terrible and unpredictable in parking lots more than anyplace else.

There will be TONS of "hold on, I need to go fetch my car" situations with head to head standoffs, other drivers stopped too close behind the spot, wrong side of the lane, etc.

Just wait until it goes live, watch the news stories go wild and the stock take a hit once again. Just like the current summon it's a gimmick at best.... and I love Tesla, but they should be spending their time elsewhere.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

NJturtlePower said:


> EXACTLY what I've been saying since the start of this whole project... humans in general are absolutely terrible and unpredictable in parking lots more than anyplace else.
> 
> There will be TONS of "hold on, I need to go fetch my car" situations with head to head standoffs, other drivers stopped too close behind the spot, wrong side of the lane, etc.
> 
> Just wait until it goes live, watch the news stories go wild and the stock take a hit once again. Just like the current summon it's a gimmick at best.... and I love Tesla, but they should be spending their time elsewhere.


I'm not a FSD optimist--I think there are a lot of intractable problems involved in getting all the way there.

But the "breaking the rules" thing? Teslas _already do that_. In emergency situations, Teslas will swerve on to the wrong side of the road if it has to in order to avoid or mitigate an accident.

And just today, on AP, I drove through a construction zone with crazy lane markings. The car broke all sorts of rules in order to drive in a sensible way. If it can do that at 50 mph, it can potentially handle a low-speed stand-off in a parking lot. Maybe they won't have all that implemented yet, but we're a lot closer to that being reality than to, say, an unprotected left turn facing traffic.

And I think you're overestimating the bad PR that will come from those kinds of incidents. Sure, the anti-Tesla forces will try to play them up--but they prefer to highlight incidents like fatal accidents rather thn a parking lot stand-off. Also, I don't think it's the kind of thing that hits the stock. At worst, jurisdictions might prohibit the use of Smart Summon in response to multiple complaints, but that doesn't represent a substantial threat to the company the way an NTSA investigation of a fatality while on AP might.


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## John Di Cecco (Sep 25, 2017)

Then you don't buy into FSD at all. 

If you think about it, NOA on expressway is pretty good. Does 90% of driving pretty well

Tesla must be pretty confident of getting enhanced summon released. Whether it's 4 weeks or 12 weeks does not make that much difference. Just creates noise. 

Lets say city NOA is 4 months out. 

If they can stitch all of this together and get to 90% reliability that would be ground breaking. 

Will we ever be able to climb inti the back seat and go to sleep. I don't care and doubt it for a long time 

If my car could drive itself 90% of the time with me supervising that would be awesome and groundbreaking


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## Jarettp (Dec 1, 2018)

I don't think this is a waste of time. Solving enhanced summon is going to make everything else that much better.


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## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

Summon is a different beast. It's doing the driving without a human behind the wheel, whereas autopilot the human has the ability to override if needed. This makes it much more difficult. There are no training disengagements. 

It's also disappointing that this one feature is holding back the release of v10 (assumption - all other features are ready to go).


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## Ksb466 (Oct 22, 2018)

airj1012 said:


> Summon is a different beast. It's doing the driving without a human behind the wheel, whereas autopilot the human has the ability to override if needed. This makes it much more difficult. There are no training disengagements.
> 
> It's also disappointing that this one feature is holding back the release of v10 (assumption - all other features are ready to go).


In E Summon you override and disengage by removing your finger from the phone. The car stops in place. At <5mpg stopping is pretty instant.


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## Rick Steinwand (May 19, 2018)

To foil summon, all you have to do is stand in front of the car. Sure it will try to go around you, or take a different route, but it's going to move slow enough where you can stand in front of it again. 

I'm confident that even if I can maintain a connection to my car, someone's going to ruin my day when I try to summon it to pick me up at the door.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

Rick Steinwand said:


> To foil summon, all you have to do is stand in front of the car. Sure it will try to go around you, or take a different route, but it's going to move slow enough where you can stand in front of it again.
> 
> I'm confident that even if I can maintain a connection to my car, someone's going to ruin my day when I try to summon it to pick me up at the door.


Then that person is a jerk. Depending on the situation and the local laws, they may also be breaking the law.

This is no different than people being jerks in other situations. Someone can push all the buttons in an elevator when they get to their floor, for example. Or they can pull the emergency brake in a subway car on their way out. Or make an appointment at an Apple Store Genius Bar with no intention of showing up.

But the fact is that the vast majority of people past the age of 15 don't intentionally do things like that. Rampant button-pushing turns out to be a minor and rare annoyance for autonomous elevators, even though in theory it could make the whole technology unworkable and force us to go back to having an elevator-operator in every elevator.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

airj1012 said:


> (assumption - all other features are ready to go)


why would you assume that?


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## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

Ksb466 said:


> In E Summon you override and disengage by removing your finger from the phone. The car stops in place. At <5mpg stopping is pretty instant.


I'm not sure releasing your finger would send back data to Tesla as a disengagement. The most common reason for lifting your finger is that summon has completed its task.


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## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

MelindaV said:


> why would you assume that?


Should I not assume that? Seems like Enhanced Summon is much harder to implement that streaming (YouTube, Netflix). I'd also assume that different team members are working on different features. Those that are building Enhanced Summon aren't likely working on all features. Unless the whole team is behind on all features, then Enhanced Summon is the reason v10 is behind held up. Elon admitted that feature is not ready to go. It's possible that other features aren't done yet either, but I'd say its much more likely that Enhanced Summon is what is holding up v10 roll out than anything else. If other features are late, they could release them as a dot release, as they're not as impactful needing to be included in a major release.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

since we don't have a list of what will be going into V10, I think its too early to judge what issues it may have or what could still be having bugs worked out.


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## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

MelindaV said:


> since we don't have a list of what will be going into V10, I think its too early to judge what issues it may have or what could still be having bugs worked out.


We have a decent list. It's an assumption. It may not be true, but its a pretty good educated guess.


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## Jason F (Jul 6, 2018)

airj1012 said:


> We have a decent list. It's an assumption. It may not be true, but its a pretty good educated guess.


The list of features are not will be in the first release of v10. They will slowly roll out over the next year.


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## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

Jason F said:


> The list of features are not will be in the first release of v10. They will slowly roll out over the next year.


What? Why would that happen? The features that Elon has talked about are all coming in v10. The same thing happened with v9. The only exception to this was NOA which was slightly delayed. A similar thing could happen for Smart Summon, but it looks like they're trying to avoid that. All the features that we know of today, will be in the initial release of v10.

https://electrek.co/2018/09/26/tesla-version-9-new-features-model-3-model-s-model-x-generation/

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/08/07/teslas-v10-software-update-everything-we-know/


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## Jason F (Jul 6, 2018)

airj1012 said:


> What? Why would that happen? The features that Elon has talked about are all coming in v10. The same thing happened with v9. The only exception to this was NOA which was slightly delayed. A similar thing could happen for Smart Summon, but it looks like they're trying to avoid that. All the features that we know of today, will be in the initial release of v10.
> 
> https://electrek.co/2018/09/26/tesla-version-9-new-features-model-3-model-s-model-x-generation/
> 
> https://cleantechnica.com/2019/08/07/teslas-v10-software-update-everything-we-know/


V10 starts on the first release and continues for a year or so. Just like games were released over time, other improvements came, NoA had many releases before its current feature set.


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## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

Jason F said:


> V10 starts on the first release and continues for a year or so. Just like games were released over time, other improvements came, NoA had many releases before its current feature set.


Everything that has been mentioned thus far will be released with the first dot release of v10. Unless there is a big exception. Of course improvements will follow up, but everything Elon has mentioned thus far will be included in v10. This is the first time a major release has been completed in a year. Most of them took much longer (2 years).


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

Jarettp said:


> I don't think this is a waste of time. Solving enhanced summon is going to make everything else that much better.


This. Enhanced Summon might seem like a party trick, but the underlying work, logic, and code to get it working is needed for these cars to be smart enough for FSD on non-highways. As Elon has said many times, it is a practice in improving pavement edge detection. They didn't need to be that smart with that before because highways usually have nice clear lane lines and medians and guardrails. Many side roads have nothing. The effort put into this feature is a big chunk needed for FSD.



Rick Steinwand said:


> To foil summon, all you have to do is stand in front of the car. Sure it will try to go around you, or take a different route, but it's going to move slow enough where you can stand in front of it again.
> 
> I'm confident that even if I can maintain a connection to my car, someone's going to ruin my day when I try to summon it to pick me up at the door.


You can clearly see where your car is on the map, its speed, and that it is stopped. In fact it will report "Waiting for pedestrian." So you won't be waiting cluelessly.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

This thread is locked and is historical about the beta version of Smart Summon as well as speculation before it was released.

To discuss the production version of Smart Summon see this thread:
https://teslaownersonline.com/threads/v10-feature-smart-summon.14294/post-255619


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