# Software Build v10.2 2019.40.50.7 ad132c7bO57e (12/31/2019)



## Ct200h

My car shows 2019.40.50.7 downloading now.


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## markrodg

Model 3 RWD LR 2018 downloading 2019.40.50.7 now


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## Steve Martin

*2019.40.50.7 is released also.*


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## Gdepau

just started installing 2019.40.50.7


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## NR4P

Just got notified of 50.7 too but am leaving for NYE party in a bit so will wait. Good luck guys.


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## StromTrooperM3

Installing .7 in NY. Was on the very tail end of .50 on 12/28 thought my advanced setting was broken but guess not lol


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## SkipperOFMO

New build posted on TeslaFi.

currently updating my car. Looks like a small download.


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## SkipperOFMO

SkipperOFMO said:


> New build posted on TeslaFi.
> 
> currently updating my car. Looks like a small download.


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## SR22pilot

Same here. The 50.x release has been getting a lot of bug fixes pretty fast.


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## MGallo

Got the update notification half an hour ago. Will be home in 20 minutes to install. Will post release notes if they are any different. I suspect not.


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## PaulT

Installing now. I never get things first


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## kataleen

Just installed this now, seems to have same release notes as before. Nothing visibly changed at first sight


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## gary in NY

Same release notes. Probably bug fixes.


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## NYR

Bug fixes, same release notes in Canada.


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## PaulT

So I was on 2019.40.50.5, coming home from work tonight. At highway speed NOA dropped to 25mph for no reason, if someone was close behind me it would have been bad...I wonder if this .7 updates whatever that was...


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## Zek

People with .7 are you all on hw3?


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## PaulT

Zak said:


> People with .7 are you all on hw3?


I am not and got it first thing.


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## victor

Zak said:


> People with .7 are you all on hw3?


No. 2.5 is here.


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## PaulT

The voice commands seemed to work every time coming home from dinner... obviously that is only a small sample, but before after hitting button on steering it would only work about 25% of time.


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## StromTrooperM3

Elon's working at Fremont tonight. He's staying busy getting these updates and cars out for year end delivery 😂😂


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## PaulT

I wonder if this update has some hidden features that will be unlocked tomorrow Jan 1st...


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## StromTrooperM3

Zak said:


> People with .7 are you all on hw3?


Dec 2018 delivery hw2.5.


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## Zek

I think this update has some kind of city driving 🚦


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## Zek

Green Light Support confirmed!!!


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## Ct200h

Zak said:


> Green Light Support confirmed!!!


Hw3 or 2.5?


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## FF35

Zak said:


> Green Light Support confirmed!!!


What exactly does "green light support" mean?


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## Reliev

FF35 said:


> What exactly does "green light support" mean?


the old version had it for v3 hardware where the green/red/yellow light showed up so the other poster must have v3 hardware (just assuming) not sure what else green light support confirmed could mean


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## Zek

Reliev said:


> the old version had it for v3 hardware where the green/red/yellow light showed up so the other poster must have v3 hardware (just assuming) not sure what else green light support confirmed could mean


The car will keep on driving through a green light - it was a light pun


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## MelindaV

Zak said:


> The car will keep on driving through a green light - it was a light pun


then why did you start a thread saying city driving is here in .7? drunk posting?


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## Rj8731

anyone having issues with iPhone connecting to car to view charge and control? uploaded .7 last night and now phone says it is having connectivity issues.


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## EValuatED

Rj8731 said:


> anyone having issues with iPhone connecting to car to view charge and control? uploaded .7 last night and now phone says it is having connectivity issues.


Yes. Also here in VA. Seeing a few other reports of this. Perhaps all the new owners trying to play with their new toy at the same time on New Years morning!


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## MelindaV

haven't yet installed .7, but posted in the .5 thread about issues with connecting to the car via the app and Teslafi. Teslafi specifically shows various failed API login and connection errors. 
I saw the occasional API error in Teslafi prior to 2019.40.50.5, and nearly constant since .5


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## Zek

MelindaV said:


> then why did you start a thread saying city driving is here in .7? drunk posting?


I was told that FSD preview was included in a recent dot release. To that I argued that the car did not operate the controls any differently and it's a perception preview Not a drive preview. So this dot release on the eve of new year's may have had some kind of additional City Driving 🚦 for some additional car "responding" to situations. I may have been wrong - I was 1000% right on Smart Summon!

Tesla was pushing the update real hard to east coast people right before midnight 🕛


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## Rj8731

EValuatED said:


> Yes. Also here in VA. Seeing a few other reports of this. Perhaps all the new owners trying to play with their new toy at the same time on New Years morning!


Connectivity with phone/car is back after about an hour. Must have been server issues ???


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## StromTrooperM3

Zak said:


> I was told that FSD preview was included in a recent dot release. To that I argued that the car did not operate the controls any differently and it's a perception preview Not a drive preview.


100% agree and is my argument to fsd refund. Nothing was delivered in the advertised timeframe. Typically this level of release never beings new features


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## Frully

StromTrooperM3 said:


> 100% agree and is my argument to fsd refund. Nothing was delivered in the advertised timeframe. Typically this level of release never beings new features


so NoA and ALC are not fsd features?


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## MarkB

I noticed the availability of the update while out and about this morning.

When I got home, I started the update from inside the car and saw this....


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## Avid

It has said that since at least the last two iterations. I take that meaning to be the update itself not necessarily a special component in the update that you jump for joy at getting.


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## Zek

StromTrooperM3 said:


> 100% agree and is my argument to fsd refund. Nothing was delivered in the advertised timeframe. Typically this level of release never beings new features


Tesla delivered alot! Lots more then any other company has. I love NOA, fear how good Smart Summon is one day and how frightening its the next. City driving was promised by Years end, and some small part of it was delivered. I can engage my Auto pilot in the city down to Zero miles! Ill take it. It's just not the FSD sneak pick that I was hoping for, including cross country FSD trip. I think the safety level thats needed for city driving will need massive amount of training and all cars running on HW3. We may get a more capable FSD preview when the car does actually take some control under human supervision this year.


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## Mike

With 50.7, my in car bug report capability is still not functioning (voice commands are still lass than 10% reliable).

Sidebar rant: I tried to make an appointment (via the app to my mobile guy) just to tell him that I can't make bug reports (as well as the voice commands still less than 10% reliable). The app no longer allowed me to reach him (Ottawa) and only offered drive-in store service in Toronto, so I had to reach my mobile guy from Ottawa via his e-mail.

I learned something new today via my communication with my mobile guy: ".....you can hold the settings icon at the bottom left corner of the screen which does the same (bug report) function....."

I tried that (in the garage) and sure enough an icon came up and said a bug report has been made.


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## victor

With this update I was able to program Homelink to operate my Sommer Direct Drive 310mhz. Yay!!!
Sometime it misses a command and you have to press a button again, but overall I'm a happy camper now.


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## Zek

victor said:


> With this update I was able to program Homelink to operate my Sommer Direct Drive 310mhz. Yay!!!
> Sometime it misses a command and you have to press a button again, but overall I'm a happy camper now.


So we have garage FSD!!!


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## MelindaV

Mike said:


> I learned something new today via my communication with my mobile guy: ".....you can hold the settings icon at the bottom left corner of the screen which does the same (bug report) function....."
> 
> I tried that (in the garage) and sure enough an icon came up and said a bug report has been made.


Someone else mentioned this a few weeks ago, maybe @garsh ?


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## garsh

MelindaV said:


> Someone else mentioned this a few weeks ago, maybe @garsh ?


I did mention it recently somewhere, but others mentioned it earlier in some other threads.


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## NYR

Zak said:


> People with .7 are you all on hw3?


I am.


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## NR4P

Zak said:


> People with .7 are you all on hw3?


Nope, still on 2.5

But today I drove by two bicyclists. TACC was set to 25mph, bikers were off to the right. Car slowed down to a crawl as it approached bikers who were in the bike lane. So I had to step on accelerator. But for first time I noticed bicyclists on the touchscreen. Never saw that before. And have had the car 18 mos. New even for 2.5 or did I miss all the visualizations for over a year?


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## Nautilus

Upgraded from 50.5 till 50.7 earlier today. With 50.5, voice commands worked great in my driveway where I was connected to Wifi, but not away from home where I was on LTE. With 50.7, voice commands now work on LTE.

I never tried voice commands on 50.1 since I went straight from 40.2.1 to 40.50.5 (opted not to update to 40.50.1 while away on vacation and then 50.5 came along). I'm on HW 2.5. Car details in signature block. 

Green Light Support. Reminds me of the time when I was a teenager driving with a friend who had just received his driver's license. He drove through an intersection quite safely and legally and I screamed at him that he had "just run a green light!!!!!" It took a full minute for him to calm down and realize he'd done nothing wrong.
Him: "I did?"
Me: "YES, you did! Didn't you see it??!!"
Him: "Sh*t, I need to pay closer attention!"
Me (now laughing): "Yes, you do! "
Him: "Hey, wait a minute, did you say green?......."


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## Klaus-rf

NR4P said:


> Nope, still on 2.5
> 
> But today I drove by two bicyclists. TACC was set to 25mph, bikers were off to the right. Car slowed down to a crawl as it approached bikers who were in the bike lane. So I had to step on accelerator. But for first time I noticed bicyclists on the touchscreen. Never saw that before. And have had the car 18 mos. New even for 2.5 or did I miss all the visualizations for over a year?


 Have seen bicycle graphics - intermittently - for at least 9 months now. HW 2.5.


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## ibgeek

Zak said:


> Tesla delivered a lot! Lots more then any other company has. I love NOA, fear how good Smart Summon is one day and how frightening its the next. City driving was promised by Years end, and some small part of it was delivered. I can engage my Auto pilot in the city down to Zero miles! Ill take it. It's just not the FSD sneak pick that I was hoping for, including cross country FSD trip. I think the safety level that's needed for city driving will need massive amount of training and all cars running on HW3. We may get a more capable FSD preview when the car does actually take some control under human supervision this year.


Elon actually stated at the Q3 call that the car would likely be capable of supervised FSD (provided it has HW3) by the end of the year but only released to a very limited few for testing. I believe that this has taken place.
Keep in mind that even when city driving is released to the public, it will require substantial supervision at first much like Autopilot did. FSD Computers will be getting updated starting in Q1. By the time that most of those upgrades are done we should start to see some FSD functionality going out to the masses. This will be discussed in detail during the Q4 call.


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## NR4P

Klaus-rf said:


> Have seen bicycle graphics - intermittently - for at least 9 months now. HW 2.5.


Thanks. Wonder how I missed them all this time.


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## Zek

ibgeek said:


> Elon actually stated at the Q3 call that the car would likely be capable of supervised FSD (provided it has HW3) by the end of the year but only released to a very limited few for testing. I believe that this has taken place.
> Keep in mind that even when city driving is released to the public, it will require substantial supervision at first much like Autopilot did. FSD Computers will be getting updated starting in Q1. By the time that most of those upgrades are done we should star





ibgeek said:


> Elon actually stated at the Q3 call that the car would likely be capable of supervised FSD (provided it has HW3) by the end of the year but only released to a very limited few for testing. I believe that this has taken place.
> Keep in mind that even when city driving is released to the public, it will require substantial supervision at first much like Autopilot did. FSD Computers will be getting updated starting in Q1. By the time that most of those upgrades are done we should start to see some FSD functionality going out to the masses. This will be discussed in detail during the Q4 call.


Thank you Sir! Your commentary is always right on. I would love to hear a very positive Q4 call with more details of the FSD roll out to a small select group of testers in 2019. That btw is a monumental achievement by tesla and is light years ahead. I am ok with tesla testing City Driving for far longer then Smart Summon, the risks are much higher with city driving and the edge cases are harder.

Would love to also know if we can upgrade to hw4 in two years?


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## StromTrooperM3

Frully said:


> so NoA and ALC are not fsd features?





Zak said:


> Tesla delivered alot!


Nothing more than EAP I bought at delivery, no


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## MelindaV

StromTrooperM3 said:


> Nothing more than EAP I bought at delivery, no


but for cars bought from last spring onward, these are indeed under the FSD section. EAP just has one foot (tire?) across the line vs the newer cars.


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## Mike

ibgeek said:


> Elon actually stated at the Q3 call that the car would likely be capable of supervised FSD (provided it has HW3) by the end of the year but only released to a very limited few for testing. I believe that this has taken place.
> Keep in mind that even when city driving is released to the public, it will require substantial supervision at first much like Autopilot did. FSD Computers will be getting updated starting in Q1. By the time that most of those upgrades are done we should start to see some FSD functionality going out to the masses. This will be discussed in detail during the Q4 call.


I share everyone's enthusiasm in meeting the FSD future ASAP, but we have IMO regressed from V9.x.

Overcompensating ping-ponging, too willing to de-couple if the sun is low in the sky or water splashes on a camera, a software cheat (IMO) to always get into a left lane prior to approaching any interchange instead of only doing so if there is traffic ahead.....even voice commands that are less than 20% reliable (these should NOT need connectivity to work).


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## Enginerd

Mike said:


> ".....you can hold the settings icon at the bottom left corner of the screen which does the same (bug report) function....."


Sorry, I'm probably being thick, but... which screen is this?


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## Nautilus

Enginerd said:


> Sorry, I'm probably being thick, but... which screen is this?


The settings icon is the little 'car' icon in the lower left corner of your main screen, accessible from any screen view, I believe.

Having read @Mike 's post, I tried it, and received a message "Thank you for your feedback" or words to that effect. Problem is, I'm not quite sure what feedback I provided. I was expecting some sort of pop-up screen with a prompt to provide feedback. I'm thinking it may have just uploaded an auto-snapshot of all the car's conditions at the time I long-pressed the icon. There wasn't any opportunity for me to record a message.


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## slacker775

Mike said:


> I share everyone's enthusiasm in meeting the FSD future ASAP, but we have IMO regressed from V9.x.
> 
> Overcompensating ping-ponging, too willing to de-couple if the sun is low in the sky or water splashes on a camera, a software cheat (IMO) to always get into a left lane prior to approaching any interchange instead of only doing so if there is traffic ahead.....even voice commands that are less than 20% reliable (these should NOT need connectivity to work).


Auto-pilot seems to be working the same as it ever was for me. I did have a few occassions recently where the sun-rise hitting the side camera gave me on-screen message about reduced ability (I think it was just about NoA) due to visibility, but as indicated by others, that's a seasonal kind of thing when all of those variables line up. Was only over a portion of my journey so really not a big deal. I've found the car has gotten much better with the whole wide merge-lane stuff.


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## ibgeek

slacker775 said:


> Auto-pilot seems to be working the same as it ever was for me. I did have a few occasions recently where the sun-rise hitting the side camera gave me on-screen message about reduced ability (I think it was just about NoA) due to visibility, but as indicated by others, that's a seasonal kind of thing when all of those variables line up. Was only over a portion of my journey so really not a big deal. I've found the car has gotten much better with the whole wide merge-lane stuff.


I completely agree with Slacker775, Drove almost exclusively in NOA from SF to Vegas and back. Through snow in a part of my journey and it was rock solid the whole way.


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## Bigriver

ibgeek said:


> I completely agree with Slacker775, Drove almost exclusively in NOA from SF to Vegas and back. Through snow in a part of my journey and it was rock solid the whole way.


Not at all for me. I'm still getting ping-ponging. And one specific example, when in NOA and it takes an exit off the freeway, the over-steer and resulting oscillation is quite un-nerving. I take over control. It has always taken exits pretty fast and immediate, but I believe it was in the 40* updates that the over-steer started for me, and it's not changed. I will say, though, that my Model 3 ping-pong is not nearly as bad as my Model X.


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## M3OC Rules

Bigriver said:


> Not at all for me. I'm still getting ping-ponging. And one specific example, when in NOA and it takes an exit off the freeway, the over-steer and resulting oscillation is quite un-nerving. I take over control. It has always taken exits pretty fast and immediate, but I believe it was in the 40* updates that the over-steer started for me, and it's not changed. I will say, though, that my Model 3 ping-pong is not nearly as bad as my Model X.


Dirty Tesla said 40.50.5 fixed it for him. Someone else said a full shutdown reboot fixed it on 40.50.1. I had issues on 40.50.1 which seem fixed on 40.50.5 but I haven't had enough time with it to be sure.


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## Mike

Nautilus said:


> The settings icon is the little 'car' icon in the lower left corner of your main screen, accessible from any screen view, I believe.
> 
> Having read @Mike 's post, I tried it, and received a message "Thank you for your feedback" or words to that effect. Problem is, I'm not quite sure what feedback I provided. I was expecting some sort of pop-up screen with a prompt to provide feedback. I'm thinking it may have just uploaded an auto-snapshot of all the car's conditions at the time I long-pressed the icon. There wasn't any opportunity for me to record a message.


I agree.

With the ability to provide feedback via my online account gone and now bug reports (with the six words of description) essentially gone, how does Tesla plan to continue to de bug the software?

Opinion: As @Nautilus says, the settings icon technique for bug reporting is just a snapshot and it requires the driver to note the time of the event and then bug Tesla via the app to describe the issue and provide a date/time of the issue.


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## tivoboy

Klaus-rf said:


> Have seen bicycle graphics - intermittently - for at least 9 months now. HW 2.5.


yeah I've seen bicylcles, motorcycles, pedestrians for a while now, 2.5 (may 2018 delivery)


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## garsh

Bigriver said:


> Not at all for me. I'm still getting ping-ponging.





M3OC Rules said:


> Dirty Tesla said 40.50.5 fixed it for him. Someone else said a full shutdown reboot fixed it on 40.50.1. I had issues on 40.50.1 which seem fixed on 40.50.5 but I haven't had enough time with it to be sure.


I tried a full shutdown on 2019.40.50.5. It didn't seem to make any difference in the autopilot lane-keeping oscillations.


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## John

Bigriver said:


> Not at all for me. I'm still getting ping-ponging. And one specific example, when in NOA and it takes an exit off the freeway, the over-steer and resulting oscillation is quite un-nerving. I take over control. It has always taken exits pretty fast and immediate, but I believe it was in the 40* updates that the over-steer started for me, and it's not changed. I will say, though, that my Model 3 ping-pong is not nearly as bad as my Model X.


Makes me wonder if you have an alignment issue. Are your front tires wearing evenly?


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## M3OC Rules

John said:


> Makes me wonder if you have an alignment issue. Are your front tires wearing evenly?


I have experienced this and its pretty extreme at times. My wife made me turn it off on our last trip. It's embarrassingly bad and basically ruins the autosteer experience. Highly underdamped. The larger the excursion the more it oscillates so that probably why the exit was bad. It would be good for Nascar drivers trying to heat up and clean their tires for a restart.


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## Bigriver

John said:


> Makes me wonder if you have an alignment issue. Are your front tires wearing evenly?


No apparent problems with tire wear. Alignment was just re-checked in November.


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## John

Bigriver said:


> No apparent problems with tire wear. Alignment was just re-checked in November.


Gosh, I guess what's left would be camera alignment? 
Not sure how to check that, other than maybe look at TeslaCam video and see if it's obviously wonky or something....


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## evannole

Bigriver said:


> Not at all for me. I'm still getting ping-ponging. And one specific example, when in NOA and it takes an exit off the freeway, the over-steer and resulting oscillation is quite un-nerving. I take over control. It has always taken exits pretty fast and immediate, but I believe it was in the 40* updates that the over-steer started for me, and it's not changed. I will say, though, that my Model 3 ping-pong is not nearly as bad as my Model X.


Maybe switch off NOA and stick with regular AP for a while? I haven't used NOA in 6+ months and haven't seen any significant ping-pong behavior, including on these most recent updates.


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## Jason F

NR4P said:


> Nope, still on 2.5
> 
> But today I drove by two bicyclists. TACC was set to 25mph, bikers were off to the right. Car slowed down to a crawl as it approached bikers who were in the bike lane. So I had to step on accelerator. But for first time I noticed bicyclists on the touchscreen. Never saw that before. And have had the car 18 mos. New even for 2.5 or did I miss all the visualizations for over a year?


Not new.


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## MelindaV

evannole said:


> Maybe switch off NOA and stick with regular AP for a while? I haven't used NOA in 6+ months and haven't seen any significant ping-pong behavior, including on these most recent updates.


I regularly do use NoA and havent seen any ping ponging with the recent updates.


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## Jason Krellner

I, too, have experienced a regression in ping-ponging. I'm also seeing speed hesitations - not full phantom braking - when I change lane sometimes. Generally, though, I've found lane changes more natural that in v9x. I even had a few where the car aggressively sped up while changing lanes, like I would do. Really, aside from the ping-pong, I've been quite pleased.


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## Long Ranger

Bigriver said:


> I believe it was in the 40* updates that the over-steer started for me, and it's not changed.


Yep, I first noticed the oscillation in 2019.40.50.1.



M3OC Rules said:


> Highly underdamped. The larger the excursion the more it oscillates so that probably why the exit was bad.


Exactly. It's really consistent behavior for me. Coming out of any curve, it comes out a bit high, then rebounds too far to the inside as the road straightens. This is on regular freeway speed curves that it used to handle just fine. I'm not talking about sharper corners that it's never navigated too smoothly.

This is with AP enabled. I rarely use NOA. Other than this annoying oscillation, AP on 2019.40.50.x is probably better than it's ever been for me. Acceleration and braking seem smoother, and auto lane changes are great.


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## shuteye

Everytime I try and update software it takes at least three tries before one will take. I have fast WiFi and and a good connection. This one (40.5 and its derivatives) is on its 5th update try with no luck. They send one out every day and its always fails. Any tricks or thoughts?


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## Numbersix

Holiday road tripped with 50.1, major pong-pong pain. Since then it's been sitting in my driveway, haven't driven it in a few days and got 50.5 and just now 50.7. Can't wait to see if it's improved but I'm afraid it'll get worst before it gets better. We're all going to know the minute it happens too. Right now the car is trying to navigate directive 246 while discouraging my language via directive 256. It's gonna snap...


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## IPv6Freely

Just got this update. Hopefully it fixes the easy entry bug!


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## dburkland

I too have noticed the ping ponging within the lane since the initial 2019.40.x release went wide. With that said it seemed like the ping ponging was smoothed out a bit in 2019.40.50.5. Just like others have said I notice it must right after exiting a corner...


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## bwilson4web

In the early days (10 months ago,) Autopilot had a rocking motion, now called ping-pong, that I thought, "Just the thing to lull a driver to sleep." 

Today, I like the assertive lane changes. Before the changes were more 'weak tea' which sometimes had poor responses from other drivers. But the PID logic for returning to the center of the new lane could use work.

Bob Wilson


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## ncsmith4

I’ve never had as much difficulty with phone key easy entry as on this .7 update. It literally will take up to 40 seconds unless I physically OPEN THE APP on the phone.

Very very frustrating.


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## garsh

Long Ranger said:


> Yep, I first noticed the oscillation in 2019.40.50.1.


Same here.


> Exactly. It's really consistent behavior for me. Coming out of any curve, it comes out a bit high, then rebounds too far to the inside as the road straightens. This is on regular freeway speed curves that it used to handle just fine. I'm not talking about sharper corners that it's never navigated too smoothly.


Yep. It sounds like you're describing pretty much what I experience. On highway sections that bend to the left, as the road straightens out, the car doesn't straighten out soon enough. So the car ends up really close to the inside line at the end of the curve. Then the car tries to correct too quickly, sending it too close to the other line (but not as close) before settling down in the middle.

On longer sweeping curves, I can also see the steering wheel adjusting left... right... left.... right... the whole way through the curve, as the car goes too close to one line, then the other, instead of tracking a static distance from the lines like it did previous to the 2019.40.50 releases (but always too close to one of the lines, so it was never great then either).

I was updated to 2019.40.50.7 last night. NoA (and autopilot) still exhibited this behavior during my commute this morning. 

My *hope* is that this is due to some fundamental change in the Autopilot software for handling steering, and that Tesla will quickly iterate and on this and eventually fix this issue.


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## NR4P

The only ping ponging I get is when I am on the highway (freeway for our Calif folks) and I am in the right lane and pass an entry ramp on my right. Car starts to move to the right as the white line more or less disappears for a bit. Then after moving to the right as I get closer to the white line for the entry folks, car moves quickly back to center itself. One ping, and then one pong and re-centers itself.

Solution, I stay out of the right lane. After all it's the slow lane and Tesla's are not meant to be in the slow lane.


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## garsh

NR4P said:


> The only ping ponging I get is when I am on the highway (freeway for our Calif folks) and I am in the right lane and pass an entry ramp on my right. Car starts to move to the right as the white line more or less disappears for a bit.


That's a different issue. That behavior has been there for a long time, and used to be worse in much earlier versions of software. I haven't noticed any regression with handling on-ramp lane merging.


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## Tesla blue Y

ncsmith4 said:


> I've never had as much difficulty with phone key easy entry as on this .7 update. It literally will take up to 40 seconds unless I physically OPEN THE APP on the phone.
> 
> Very very frustrating.


you may want to check that you have the most recent version of the app. That usually fixes that problem for me


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## NR4P

garsh said:


> That's a different issue. That behavior has been there for a long time, and used to be worse in much earlier versions of software. I haven't noticed any regression with handling on-ramp lane merging.


Agree. My purpose was to clarify aside from that minor issue I dont see the pp problem that others point out they have.


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## Needsdecaf

Got this last night and one odd thing that didn't happen on 50.5: it turned off my messaging notification. I sent two texts this morning on the way to work and when I got here, was surprised to see I had a response text. Checked the BT settings and notification for messages was unchecked. Odd. 

Driving behavior seemed largely the same. Still some oscillations while driving.


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## tencate

Re: Ping Pong. I'm reading through this thread trying to see if there's any rhyme or reason to who has ping ponging and who doesn't. It looks like you Performance people all have issues? We early LR RWD folks don't seem to as much? Perhaps a poll would help shed light on it... Me? I've noticed a bit more sensitivity, sure, but there's a set of curvy S curves near me that the car now does flawlessly and it wasn't able to do that before. I like the discussion about PID controllers or damped oscillators. I think the "damping coefficient" equivalent has been turned down a bit and getting the numbers "just right" is proving problematic. I've just updated from .5 to .7 and I'll see if there's any difference. I have another few long trips (200 miles) planned in the next few days or so.


----------



## Needsdecaf

tencate said:


> Re: Ping Pong. I'm reading through this thread trying to see if there's any rhyme or reason to who has ping ponging and who doesn't. It looks like you Performance people all have issues? We early LR RWD folks don't seem to as much? Perhaps a poll would help shed light on it... Me? I've noticed a bit more sensitivity, sure, but there's a set of curvy S curves near me that the car now does flawlessly and it wasn't able to do that before. I like the discussion about PID controllers or damped oscillators. I think the "damping coefficient" equivalent has been turned down a bit and getting the numbers "just right" is proving problematic. I've just updated from .5 to .7 and I'll see if there's any difference. I have another few long trips (200 miles) planned in the next few days or so.


My car is a LRAWD, not performance. And our roads tend to be dead straight.

I'm wondering if it's an issue with the concrete highways and the grooving they put in them. Could be confusing the cameras.


----------



## tencate

Needsdecaf said:


> LRAWD


OK, so Performance _and_ AWD models seem to have bothersome/noticeable ping-ponging. Any LR RWD people have excessive ping-ponging? I'd say mine is a bit more sensitive but it's not bothersome and my passengers haven't noticed.


----------



## MelindaV

tencate said:


> OK, so Performance _and_ AWD models seem to have bothersome/noticeable ping-ponging. Any LR RWD people have excessive ping-ponging? I'd say mine is a bit more sensitive but it's not bothersome and my passengers haven't noticed.


I've not had ping ponging here in an AWD.


----------



## iChris93

tencate said:


> Any LR RWD people have excessive ping-ponging?


Yes.


----------



## Jason Krellner

I think the ping-ponging is universal. My guess is that some are just less sensitive to it than others. I'm sure many will disagree, but I think EAP/NOA act the same across the fleet (at least within the same models...S, 3, X, etc.).


----------



## MelindaV

Jason Krellner said:


> I think the ping-ponging is universal.


Id say this is not accurate. on previous releases (none of the 40.50.x) I have certainly experienced the wondering in the lane. so it is not that I am not able to notice it. On 40.50.x it has not happened in my car / on my freeways. Even the first drive after the installs, which generally is when it has happened on prior releases.


----------



## Zek

.7 feels like it has slightly more power in my AWD+ ??? Wishful thinking?


----------



## Mr. Spacely

I haven't had any ping pong issues in quite a while. SR+


----------



## NR4P

LR RWD no ping ponging (just the right highway entrance slight right/left movement)


----------



## MelindaV

NR4P said:


> LR RWD no ping ponging (just the right highway entrance slight right/left movement)


and I was thinking yesterday that the on-ramp moving to re-center was nearly gone with the recent changes! it no longer feels like the car shifts over, likely looking like you are trying to block whoever is coming up on your right from passing you at the end of an onramp.


----------



## gary in NY

I noticed some slight ping-pong on the first version of this series of updates on my first drive. It wasn't there on the return trip. I haven't noticed it since, but I have not made many trips where I would use auto steer. I have a few coming up in the next month or so, so we'll see. We will probably have moved on to a new version by then though.

LR AWD


----------



## Long Ranger

Needsdecaf said:


> And our roads tend to be dead straight.
> 
> I'm wondering if it's an issue with the concrete highways and the grooving they put in them. Could be confusing the cameras.


Maybe we also need to distinguish between ping ponging on straight roads vs curves.

I don't have the problem on straight roads. There is the occasional lane bias shift to give trucks a wider berth, and it doesn't always get that right, but that doesn't bother me much.

My main issue is the oscillation within the lane when exiting a curve (and sometimes when entering the curve). Happens nearly every time on .1, .5, and .7. It's usually not so bad that I would disengage AP, but I have disengaged a couple times when it gets dangerously close to a vehicle or barrier.

I also verified ping pong is the same for me whether steering is set to Sport or Standard.


----------



## tencate

Next variable? wheel/tire sizes. I'm on 18 inch X-ice right now, pretty squishy, maybe I'd notice it more on 19 inch tires? I must say, the "feel" of my car (even with the very very early "sport" suspension) is downright soggy compared with a Performance Model 3 on 19 inch wheels. Tires/wheels and suspension may be playing a bigger role in this than we think. Or not. (By the way, I'm very in tune with how much differences and small tweaks in suspension make, used to autoX... perhaps this is true here; some of us don't feel ping-pong and others in spades simply because of chassis dynamics). Dunno. Or perhaps it IS software. Interesting. Regardless, I'm pretty happy with the .7 release so far.


----------



## garsh

tencate said:


> Next variable? wheel/tire sizes. I'm on 18 inch X-ice right now, pretty squishy, maybe I'd notice it more on 19 inch tires?


I'm on 18 inch winter tires right now. So that doesn't appear to explain it.


----------



## tencate

garsh said:


> I'm on 18 inch winter tires right now. So that doesn't appear to explain it.


Well, to me that pretty much implies it's software then... and why it's hardly noticeable on mine vs annoying as he11 to others is a real mystery. Especially since we're all on the same software revision. Would love to be a fly on the wall inside Tesla


----------



## potatoee

Via TeslaFi... bottom line: 50.7 started rolling out on 12/31:


----------



## DocScott

It could be some sort of interaction between a sensor problem and firmware. For example, maybe the new firmware is having more trouble finding road edges when the camera window is a bit dirty than used to be the case. I could easily imagine that as the neural net learns to recognize more objects (cones, lights, trash cans, stop signs), that its ability to find lane markings and road edges gets a little less robust. So then if there also happens to be a smudge on the camera window, it might have some trouble figuring out where the lane is supposed to go. That could explain why some people have had ping-ponging for a long time (bad smudge), some have had it only recently (small smudge combined with more finicky neural net), and some don't have it at all (clean camera window).

In that light, here's a question for those of you suffering from a lot of ping-ponging: what does the visualization show for the lane lines while the car is doing it? Do the lane lines in the visualization shimmer and shift?

I've never had ping-ponging of the kind most of you are describing; just the kind where a lane gets wide because of a merge or something like that. When that happens, I _do_ see the lane lines on the visualization jump around. It would be telling if cars that are wandering in well-defined lanes are seeing the same jumpy visualizations. If not, back to the drawing board...


----------



## garsh

DocScott said:


> maybe the new firmware is having more trouble finding road edges when the camera window is a bit dirty than used to be the case.


I have this issue even right after cleaning all the windows and cameras.


> what does the visualization show for the lane lines while the car is doing it? Do the lane lines in the visualization shimmer and shift?


Nope. Clearly-visible lines on the interstate itself. Rock-solid steady lines shown on the car's display as well. The car just goes back & forth between the lines, both in the physical world and on the visualization.


----------



## DocScott

garsh said:


> Clearly-visible lines on the interstate itself. Rock-solid steady lines shown on the car's display as well. The car just goes back & forth between the lines, both in the physical world and on the visualization.


That's fascinating, and also bizarre. I can think of lots of reasons a Tesla might be having trouble deciding where the lanes are. But if it knows where the lanes are and can't solve the relatively simple physics of driving down the middle of the lane? That rules out sensors and neural net. At that point, the task shouldn't be much more difficult than computer control of video game cars in racing games! I'm stumped.


----------



## Needsdecaf

tencate said:


> Next variable? wheel/tire sizes. I'm on 18 inch X-ice right now, pretty squishy, maybe I'd notice it more on 19 inch tires? I must say, the "feel" of my car (even with the very very early "sport" suspension) is downright soggy compared with a Performance Model 3 on 19 inch wheels. Tires/wheels and suspension may be playing a bigger role in this than we think. Or not. (By the way, I'm very in tune with how much differences and small tweaks in suspension make, used to autoX... perhaps this is true here; some of us don't feel ping-pong and others in spades simply because of chassis dynamics). Dunno. Or perhaps it IS software. Interesting. Regardless, I'm pretty happy with the .7 release so far.


I'm on the same 19's that came as standard, and this is all in dry weather. So unless my tires wearing has something to do with it, I dunno. I doubt it though. But I will tell you, you can see the wheel moving back and forth.


----------



## Drhalo

Bug reports are not really working for me on 50.7. I say "bug report, cannot tune station" and it says command not recognized. If I say "bug report, cannot report bugs". that works. So annoying.


----------



## Drhalo

I have noticed since installing 50.7, that when I say "Listen to XXX" with XXX being whatever station, the system tries to navigate to that place. For instance if you say "Listen to CNN" it tries to give me directions to CNN in Atlanta. I can't even report the bug because the stupid system doesn't like to report bugs.. It tells me command not recognized. It baffles me how Tesla can break something that was working just fine.


----------



## Francois Gaucher

tencate said:


> OK, so Performance _and_ AWD models seem to have bothersome/noticeable ping-ponging. Any LR RWD people have excessive ping-ponging? I'd say mine is a bit more sensitive but it's not bothersome and my passengers haven't noticed.


Mine is LR RWD and it's doing ping pong between lanes, but mostly at slow speed


----------



## Klaus-rf

Drhalo said:


> It baffles me how Tesla can break something that was working just fine.


 That is the software development process. Changing ANY code requires full regression testing - there is no such thing as "I only changed this section so it can't effect any other functionality".

We, the collective, are the beta testers.


----------



## ibgeek

Klaus-rf said:


> That is the software development process. Changing ANY code requires full regression testing - there is no such thing as "I only changed this section so it can't effect any other functionality".
> 
> We, the collective, are the beta testers.


Yes we are, and your car tells you as much when you look at the associated settings. Way I look at it, by turning said features on, you agreed to beta test. So if there is a problem, you should report it, but you have no right to complain about it. Now once the word beta is removed from said feature, if there is a problem, complain a way.

Just my 73 cents. (Adjusted for inflation)


----------



## Rick Steinwand

Zak said:


> .7 feels like it has slightly more power in my AWD+ ??? Wishful thinking?


I didn't notice much improvement after my recent $2,000 expenditure, but wondered the same thing today on my (snowy) ride home. I didn't floor it from a stop today as the ultimate test, but my spirited commute home seemed faster.


----------



## Needsdecaf

Drhalo said:


> I have noticed since installing 50.7, that when I say "Listen to XXX" with XXX being whatever station, the system tries to navigate to that place. For instance if you say "Listen to CNN" it tries to give me directions to CNN in Atlanta. I can't even report the bug because the stupid system doesn't like to report bugs.. It tells me command not recognized. It baffles me how Tesla can break something that was working just fine.


Today I was sending my wife a text at lunch. I wanted to respond with "that's funny" but the car instead sent her....

"Dutch Bunny".


----------



## Feathermerchant

Maybe you need to work on your English speaking skills.


----------



## Mike

John said:


> Gosh, I guess what's left would be camera alignment?
> Not sure how to check that, other than maybe look at TeslaCam video and see if it's obviously wonky or something....


Since I got V10.X the car is doing a lot of ping ponging. It's this software version, it's not a hardware issue


----------



## Mike

garsh said:


> That's a different issue. That behavior has been there for a long time, and used to be worse in much earlier versions of software. I haven't noticed any regression with handling on-ramp lane merging.


I think he is talking about after the lane hunting ends when the lane width is suddenly it's normal size (end of Y split exit and/or end of merge entrance).

The car rushes to center and over compensates with (in my car) four oscillations before it is centered.

My hack is to assume steering control, thus telling Tesla that my intervention (while on autopilot) was required therefor there is a bug.


----------



## Mike

tencate said:


> OK, so Performance _and_ AWD models seem to have bothersome/noticeable ping-ponging. Any LR RWD people have excessive ping-ponging? I'd say mine is a bit more sensitive but it's not bothersome and my passengers haven't noticed.


I have LR RWD and yes, since V10.x, excessive ping ponging to the point that the copilot has read me the riot act.


----------



## DocScott

ibgeek said:


> Yes we are, and your car tells you as much when you look at the associated settings. Way I look at it, by turning said features on, you agreed to beta test. So if there is a problem, you should report it, but you have no right to complain about it. Now once the word beta is removed from said feature, if there is a problem, complain a way.
> 
> Just my 73 cents. (Adjusted for inflation)


Drhalo was talking about the "Listen to XXX" command which has been a feature for as long as there have been Model 3s (longer, I'd guess). It is not listed as beta, as far as I know. It is not a feature you "turn on." So by your own standards, if it breaks with a new firmware update, we have a right to complain.


----------



## ibgeek

DocScott said:


> Drhalo was talking about the "Listen to XXX" command which has been a feature for as long as there have been Model 3s (longer, I'd guess). It is not listed as beta, as far as I know. It is not a feature you "turn on." So by your own standards, if it breaks with a new firmware update, we have a right to complain.


My apologies, I so much talk about autopilot and NOA I missed that the your comment was not related.


----------



## roghaj

P I D loop issues for lane keeping seem like they would be easier than they must really be.


----------



## Jason Krellner

There's no rule saying you can't complain about beta software/hardware. I just call that "spirited bug reporting." Besides, we're among friends here - and friends can commiserate about whatever they want.

The "beta" tag is about one thing and one thing only - liability. It allows Tesla to disclaim liability when stuff goes boom.


----------



## ibgeek

Jason Krellner said:


> There's no rule saying you can't complain about beta software/hardware. I just call that "spirited bug reporting." Besides, we're among friends here - and friends can commiserate about whatever they want.
> 
> The "beta" tag is about one thing and one thing only - liability. It allows Tesla to disclaim liability when stuff goes boom.


Spirited bug reporting is one thing but entitled whining is exhausting. Not accusing anyone in this thread, just a generalized statement. This forum is miles better than many others related to Tesla.


----------



## Zek

ibgeek said:


> Spirited bug reporting is one thing but entitled whining is exhausting. Not accusing anyone in this thread, just a generalized statement. This forum is miles better than many others related to Tesla.


I say we are entitled to as much whining as we like... My City Driving🚦is able to continue driving through a green light! This time without ping-ponging - just simply not keeping the proper lane on a slight 15 degree turn! Go FSD - Hard problems take lots and lots of time. There are so many edge cases with city driving that I want tesla to take it's time.


----------



## DocScott

Is Autosteer still indicated as beta? I think so, but haven't checked a recent update to the manual. If so, I've got a *complaint*: Tesla shouldn't be able to have it both ways. It's reasonable to me to say that beta features are in a voluntary testing phase, and are thus not yet part of the feature set on which the car should be evaluated. But Tesla has been using Autosteer for years as part of their marketing. It's completely disingenuous to sell a product based in part on a feature that it doesn't have.

Contrast that, by the way, to Smart Summon. Tesla's messaging has been pretty clear that Smart Summon isn't yet ready for prime time, but that it's fun to try out, occasionally useful, and a sign of things to come. In other words, it's beta.

And I think Tesla owners, at least on TOO, make that distinction pretty clearly. I've read many people who wrote that they don't yet see Smart Summon as useful and won't be using it much until it improves, but they don't generally _complain_ about that. When something goes wrong with Autosteer, on the other hand, it generates complaints (same with TACC, which is _not_ listed as beta).

Autosteer is either mis-labeled as beta when it's not, or it's marketed as if it's a fully realized feature when it's not. Either way, that's a problem.


----------



## FRC

DocScott said:


> Is Autosteer still indicated as beta? I think so, but haven't checked a recent update to the manual. If so, I've got a *complaint*: Tesla shouldn't be able to have it both ways. It's reasonable to me to say that beta features are in a voluntary testing phase, and are thus not yet part of the feature set on which the car should be evaluated. But Tesla has been using Autosteer for years as part of their marketing. It's completely disingenuous to sell a product based in part on a feature that it doesn't have.
> 
> Contrast that, by the way, to Smart Summon. Tesla's messaging has been pretty clear that Smart Summon isn't yet ready for prime time, but that it's fun to try out, occasionally useful, and a sign of things to come. In other words, it's beta.
> 
> And I think Tesla owners, at least on TOO, make that distinction pretty clearly. I've read many people who wrote that they don't yet see Smart Summon as useful and won't be using it much until it improves, but they don't generally _complain_ about that. When something goes wrong with Autosteer, on the other hand, it generates complaints (same with TACC, which is _not_ listed as beta).
> 
> Autosteer is either mis-labeled as beta when it's not, or it's marketed as if it's a fully realized feature when it's not. Either way, that's a problem.


The most recent Owners manual that I can locate is 2019.36.1 in which autosteer is still shown as beta.


----------



## Zek

FRC said:


> The most recent Owners manual that I can locate is 2019.36.1 in which autosteer is still shown as beta.


Gmail was Beta for 10+ years!


----------



## Badmonkey

Been through all 50.x updates. Now on 50.7. Still a lot of bugs. Only thing that works better now is answering sms. But can’t still use the command send sms. Still a lot of problems with all others commands. This regards the software released in Norway and in Norwegian language. I think this is the worst sw update they have released, spesial because the preview isn’t shown outside the US and the rest of it actually sucks because of bugs all the way.


----------



## lessrandom

My brand new Model 3 (four days and 700 miles) does gentle ping-pong on I5 heading into Seattle. The graphic doesn’t really show the car ping ponging so I suspect the issue is not the location within the lane but some bug determining the location of the lane itself. Also I have noticed trucks jumping around as I pass them and I wonder if that’s related.


----------



## GDN

Zak said:


> I say we are entitled to as much whining as we like... My City Driving🚦is able to continue driving through a green light! This time without ping-ponging - just simply not keeping the proper lane on a slight 15 degree turn! Go FSD - Hard problems take lots and lots of time. There are so many edge cases with city driving that I want tesla to take it's time.


I think and hope you are being tongue in cheek about being entitled to unlimited whining, however, just in case, lets note what keeps this forum just a little better than many others is the friendliness and helpfulness without a ton of whining and distraction. Please note I'm not intending to call you out, but want to just put a friendly reminder here for all that anyone whining and repeating the same ting over and over does get a little old.

The spirit of the forum is to help and share. We all have problems at times, whether trying to reach Tesla or with software bugs. Most all of them work themselves out over time, some do not. However venting in every post and thread doesn't typically help that, in fact it starts to detract quite quickly.

I believe everyone on this forum enjoys the sharing, learning and banter, but please remember to try and keep it positive. You are more than welcome to share your Tesla issues, but know that software fixes and Tesla replies can be slow. We all hope that it continues to improve sooner rather than later.


----------



## bernie

dburkland said:


> I too have noticed the ping ponging within the lane since the initial 2019.40.x release went wide. With that said it seemed like the ping ponging was smoothed out a bit in 2019.40.50.5. Just like others have said I notice it must right after exiting a corner...


installed 50.7; Drove an all NOA trip from San Francisco via the bay bridge to Oakland 580 corridor- so lots of freeway twists and turns And a hill or two - no ping pong! I noticed the hard phantom break has really mellowed out.


----------



## Klaus-rf

ibgeek said:


> Spirited bug reporting is one thing but entitled whining is exhausting.


 Potato, tomato

Complaining, whining, commenting, giving feedback is required for all products, ESPECIALLY ßETA products. And every person has their own peculiar way of providing feedback. That's how issues get fixed, modified, & improve to eventually become robust products.

If you've ever worked in software development, you already know that ALL ßeta testers are expected to provide feedback.

We're all ßeta testers. We paid for the privilege. It's our responsibility to comment, complain, etc. until it all works perfectly.


----------



## victor

Some input from reddit on the ping-pong issue - it's related to sonar sensors calibration .


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/ejnwwj


----------



## DocScott

victor said:


> Some input from reddit on the ping-pong issue - it's related to sonar sensors calibration .
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/ejnwwj


Aha! That could make sense.

The lane visualizations are fine, because those come from the cameras.

There's an interaction with firmware version, because we know that in recent versions AP has learned to shy away from big trucks in adjacent lanes.

That shy-away behavior may well be triggered by the sonar.

So the end result is that it's similar to my earlier camera-smudge theory, except it's the sonar instead. If the sonar is having a bit of trouble, it could well think "TRUCK!" in the right lane and slide to the left, but then think "TRUCK!" in the left lane and slide to the right.

I don't quite grok all of the details of what the "calibration" does, but it makes sense that it would be something like that.


----------



## Mike

DocScott said:


> Aha! That could make sense.
> 
> The lane visualizations are fine, because those come from the cameras.
> 
> There's an interaction with firmware version, because we know that in recent versions AP has learned to shy away from big trucks in adjacent lanes.
> 
> That shy-away behavior may well be triggered by the sonar.
> 
> So the end result is that it's similar to my earlier camera-smudge theory, except it's the sonar instead. If the sonar is having a bit of trouble, it could well think "TRUCK!" in the right lane and slide to the left, but then think "TRUCK!" in the left lane and slide to the right.
> 
> I don't quite grok all of the details of what the "calibration" does, but it makes sense that it would be something like that.


 The V10.x ping ponging that results from a lane centering over correction after a lane split (exit) or lane merge (entrance) must only be camera based.

I base this on the fact that I get the V10.x over correction ping ponging with no other vehicles in the vicinity while driving in the right lane thru exit and entrance areas.


----------



## DocScott

Mike said:


> The V10.x ping ponging that results from a lane centering over correction after a lane split (exit) or lane merge (entrance) must only be camera based.
> 
> I base this on the fact that I get the V10.x over correction ping ponging with no other vehicles in the vicinity while driving in the right lane thru exit and entrance areas.


That doesn't necessarily mean it's camera based. The sonics could be getting some sort of ghost echoes.

Does the visualization of your lane lines jump around when you're ping-ponging? If it was camera-based, I'd expect them to.


----------



## Flashgj

victor said:


> Some input from reddit on the ping-pong issue - it's related to sonar sensors calibration .
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/ejnwwj


So does this mean that the only way to calibrate the sensors is to have mobile service come out and do a calibration?

The ping ponging in my car is so bad that I can hardly stand to use autosteer, and absolutely can not use it when my wife is in the car, it makes her way too nervous because the car is all over the place.


----------



## Needsdecaf

Feathermerchant said:


> Maybe you need to work on your English speaking skills.


lol, it's definitely not me.


----------



## John Di Cecco

I am pretty sure there is no way to manually initiate camera calibration. On a one chance in a million, have you checked your side cameras for clear protective shipping tape that may not have been removed?


----------



## Zek

GDN said:


> I think and hope you are being tongue in cheek about being entitled to unlimited whining, however, just in case, lets note what keeps this forum just a little better than many others is the friendliness and helpfulness without a ton of whining and distraction. Please note I'm not intending to call you out, but want to just put a friendly reminder here for all that anyone whining and repeating the same ting over and over does get a little old.
> 
> The spirit of the forum is to help and share. We all have problems at times, whether trying to reach Tesla or with software bugs. Most all of them work themselves out over time, some do not. However venting in every post and thread doesn't typically help that, in fact it starts to detract quite quickly.
> 
> I believe everyone on this forum enjoys the sharing, learning and banter, but please remember to try and keep it positive. You are more than welcome to share your Tesla issues, but know that software fixes and Tesla replies can be slow. We all hope that it continues to improve sooner rather than later.


Love tesla! Love Elon! But this:
"Complaining, whining, commenting, giving feedback is required for all products, ESPECIALLY ßETA products. And every person has their own peculiar way of providing feedback. That's how issues get fixed, modified, & improve to eventually become robust products. " !!!
I can be more PC and call it Giving honest feedback! 
Let me put it this way, when I was reading all the "whining" it softened the blow when my car encountered the same multiple problems: Front Drive Unit shut down, passenger restraight fault, windows rolling down by them selfs in the rain over night(wtf), blacked out reverse camera, lose driver side trim causing wistling noises and tesla telling me they all come like that(wtf) - forced them to fix the trim, no more whistling. Loud thumping, some times slow charging, etc...

If this was any other car I would have returned the car and filed a lawsuit. But this is tesla and I love it! We are part of the electric revolution. I give tesla a pass on almost everything, because they are doing the right thing.


----------



## Flashgj

John Di Cecco said:


> I am pretty sure there is no way to manually initiate camera calibration. On a one chance in a million, have you checked your side cameras for clear protective shipping tape that may not have been removed?


Cameras are all clean and clear! I have always been very impressed with autosteer in the year and a half I have had the car, then after 50.x, ping-ponging in the lane started and I and many others find it very annoying. I keep hoping that a software update will fix it but if it needs some kind of calibration by mobile service, then it would be nice to know and I would get the appointment scheduled to get it fixed.


----------



## francoisp

Earlier today I started charging my car at home and I noticed an inconsistency between the reported miles per hour and the amps/voltage displayed. The amps was showing 40 and the voltage 239, but the reported mph was only 6. I was in the car for at least 15 minutes and more than 10 miles were added during that time so the car appeared to be charging at full power. I went away and came back later and the mph was showing 39, a more representative value.


----------



## Rick Steinwand

FrancoisP said:


> Earlier today I started charging my car at home and I noticed an inconsistency between the reported miles per hour and the amps/voltage displayed. The amps was showing 40 and the voltage 239, but the reported mph was only 6. I was in the car for at least 15 minutes and more than 10 miles were added during that time so the car appeared to be charging at full power. I went away and came back later and the mph was showing 39, a more representative value.


My car does that all the time when it's warming the battery. I initially show 0 mph, then it'll go to 1 mph, and often back to zero.


----------



## GDN

FrancoisP said:


> Earlier today I started charging my car at home and I noticed an inconsistency between the reported miles per hour and the amps/voltage displayed. The amps was showing 40 and the voltage 239, but the reported mph was only 6. I was in the car for at least 15 minutes and more than 10 miles were added during that time so the car appeared to be charging at full power. I went away and came back later and the mph was showing 39, a more representative value.


If you are in the car while charging or open a door the heater or other accessories come on and the power will be directed to the car as "shore power" and not all will go toward charging. Try it again a few times. Plug in and charge, open the door and get in and see what happens.


----------



## sterickson

So, are we *all* supposed to make a service appointment to get our sensors recalibrated? The ping-ponging makes me sick to my stomach when I drive. It's like being on a boat and not ever quite getting my sea legs.


----------



## ibgeek

sterickson said:


> So, are we *all* supposed to make a service appointment to get our sensors re-calibrated? The ping-ponging makes me sick to my stomach when I drive. It's like being on a boat and not ever quite getting my sea legs.


I don't have the problem, so it wont be all of us. I believe that you should though.


----------



## sterickson

I should have made it clear I wasn't seriously suggesting we all make a service call for it. The SCs would be inundated. I'm going to hold out for a fix in in the next couple of firmware updates, rather than pester them, at least as long as I don't toss my cookies, heh.


----------



## Lgkahn

Voice cmds definitely broken. Can only say bug report. Not bug report xxxx is not working etc. Also should lower volume of other audio when reading texts.and should be able to.click.again to stop reading a text. Especially for.long ones which can get annoying.


----------



## Mesprit87

sterickson said:


> So, are we *all* supposed to make a service appointment to get our sensors recalibrated? The ping-ponging makes me sick to my stomach when I drive. It's like being on a boat and not ever quite getting my sea legs.


I'm sure they can push this recalibration on the next software like when we got our cars new and needed to drive for awhile for it to calibrate the cameras. Not sure though this short drive was also calibrating the front sensor...
If you are having bad ping ponging I suggest you do make an appointment, maybe by now they can push a calibration over the air without you having to actually go to the SC


----------



## Mike

DocScott said:


> That doesn't necessarily mean it's camera based. The sonics could be getting some sort of ghost echoes.
> 
> Does the visualization of your lane lines jump around when you're ping-ponging? If it was camera-based, I'd expect them to.


In these instances, the lane lines are not jumping around AFAIK (truthfully, my head isn't down at the screen when this is happening).

I'll specifically look for it next time.

Historically, I have seen lane lines jump around when using autosteer on two lane (secondary) highways and, yes, the car has always become "fidgety" in those instances.

However, it wasn't until V10.x came along that this ping ponging issue has, on limited access freeways, became an issue.


----------



## Mike

Flashgj said:


> So does this mean that the only way to calibrate the sensors is to have mobile service come out and do a calibration?
> 
> The ping ponging in my car is so bad that I can hardly stand to use autosteer, and absolutely can not use it when my wife is in the car, it makes her way too nervous because the car is all over the place.


From the noted Reddit thread, the IP added:

*Sorry, I forgot to mention.. he said future software updates should address the issue. *


----------



## vnvjeep

Not sure if this has been mentioned anywhere else (didn't see anything doing a quick search), but it seems the car lost the ability to anticipate and slow down for upcoming curves while in AP mode on backroads. Now it takes the curves at full speed and cause me to have to take action... gotta love the unexpected when features appear, get used to them, and then disappear.


----------



## Mike

vnvjeep said:


> Not sure if this has been mentioned anywhere else (didn't see anything doing a quick search), but it seems the car lost the ability to anticipate and slow down for upcoming curves while in AP mode on backroads. Now it takes the curves at full speed and cause me to have to take action... gotta love the unexpected when features appear, get used to them, and then disappear.


It's like before V9.x came along, the small battery icon showing expected SOC at nav system destination was always visible, next to the ETA.

Once V9.x was installed, one has to fiddle with the UI in one fashion or another (instead of looking at the ETA) to see if the energy trend is in your favor or not...


----------



## Ksb466

Any videos of the ping ponging? I don’t have it, but curious how bad it really is for those that do


----------



## bwilson4web

Ksb466 said:


> Any videos of the ping ponging? I don't have it, but curious how bad it really is for those that do


If not video, recorded accelerometer metrics. We can then compare to our own rides. Without metrics, it becomes just a text posting exercise.

Bob Wilson


----------



## FRC

Ksb466 said:


> Any videos of the ping ponging? I don't have it, but curious how bad it really is for those that do


It must be worse for some than for others. Mine is very mild and likely wouldn't show up on video. In fact, I never noticed it until I read so many posts about it. Damn you posters!!


----------



## garsh

Ksb466 said:


> Any videos of the ping ponging? I don't have it, but curious how bad it really is for those that do


It's not that bad. Very slow oscillation (on the order of several seconds). But every once in a while it gets way to close to one line or the other.

I'll try to save a recording of an incident if the weather cooperates.


----------



## Zek

garsh said:


> It's not that bad. Very slow oscillation (on the order of several seconds). But every once in a while it gets way to close to one line or the other.
> 
> I'll try to save a recording of an incident if the weather cooperates.


I had the oscillation two versions back, now I dont. 
the only oscillations I excperienced was coming out of a corner and the car ping ponging sever times before finding a good some what centered position.
I have a feeling road curvature plays a roll.


----------



## garsh

Zak said:


> I have a feeling road curvature plays a roll.


Yep. If I'm on a straight, it's fine. Like you said, it seems to have issues on a curve, and then often has issues exiting a curve onto a straight as well.


----------



## StromTrooperM3

Lgkahn said:


> Voice cmds definitely broken


I was having this issue as well yesterday. Maybe 1 in 10 car commands (change temp, heated seat on etc) worked. Navigation seemed to work every time.


----------



## shareef777

Voice commands were all failing yesterday. Did a reset with no change. Was working fine yesterday morning. Are the servers still inundated?


----------



## evannole

Installed on Thursday but didn't try Autopilot on this version until this morning. If I really look for ping-pong behavior, I can find it, but it's really subtle on my car. It was subtly present on the last version as well, and I all the same used EAP on a 1,200-mile road trip over the holidays without issue. I even asked my wife, who can be somewhat prone to motion sickness, if she was bothered by it at all, and she said that she didn't even notice it and was perfectly comfortable.

I can confirm that it does seem to happen more after emerging from a curve, but it really doesn't bother me. It really seems like it must vary from car to car. 

Dare I say that phantom braking seems to be a thing of the past? *knock on wood*

One regression: since the first iteration of V10, the car while on EAP suddenly gives me a max speed of 35 mph at a very specific point near the end of my interstate commute, as if I were on a surface street or off-ramp. It's quite odd; the car has never behaved like that before at that point. My map version has not changed recently as far as I know; it's been on 2019.20 for as long as I can remember. Even stranger - if I cancel AP and immediately re-engage it, the limit immediately reverts to what it should be - 55 mph speed limit plus the 8 mph offset that I have set , so 63 mph. No big deal - it's near the end of my drive so I will just start switching off AP before reaching this point. But it's quite odd, nonetheless.


----------



## bwilson4web

evannole said:


> suddenly gives me a max speed of 35 mph at a very specific point near the end of my interstate commute, as if I were on a surface street or off-ramp.


I've seen that too.

Bob Wilson


----------



## Feathermerchant

Erroneous speed limits was a reason for me not to buy AP. If the car slows 10 mph when the speed limit does not change, I'm afraid I'd get run over.
We have a 75mph Toll lane here and where the entrance ramp to it flies over the main FWY (65 mph limit) the car thinks the speed limit is 75.
It would be better if it read the signs right? Well the 75 mph lane is separated from the 65 by a Jersey wall with signage just to the Toll lane side for 75 mph.


----------



## iChris93

Feathermerchant said:


> It should read the signs right?


On HW2+ vehicles it does nothing with this.


----------



## Feathermerchant

Sorry. Poor wording on my part. I've corrected my original post.


----------



## Shadow LI

This might be a known issue or maybe I’ve just accepted it. When changing from one streaming favorite channel to another, it takes 5-10 seconds every time before channel kicks in. Just me?


----------



## garsh

garsh said:


> Yep. If I'm on a straight, it's fine. Like you said, it seems to have issues on a curve, and then often has issues exiting a curve onto a straight as well.


Here's an example.

At about the 45 second mark, you can see the car gets closer to the left line after the road straightens out, then heads back towards the center.
It's subtle in the video (and real life for that matter), but I think you can still tell. Concentrate on looking way down at the far end of the road, and how that shifts left & right.


----------



## Ksb466

garsh said:


> Here's an example.
> 
> At about the 45 second mark, you can see the car gets closer to the left line after the road straightens out, then heads back towards the center.
> It's subtle in the video (and real life for that matter), but I think you can still tell. Concentrate on looking way down at the far end of the road, and how that shifts left & right.


Thanks for posting. Maybe this is not that some have it and others dont, just a personal tolerance or sensitivity to the current drifting, which I can see in the vid. Would be interesting for someone who "doesn't" have the ping ponging drive that same stretch of road and compare video. I never considered myself to have it, but I'm no where near Pittsburgh. But seeing that I would admit some similar drifting in my car, but certainly less that I would naturally do if I were steering, and rarely a bother To me.


----------



## Flashgj

How subtle it seems, for me, depends on how much traffic you are in. In heavy traffic, especially if it is moving along at >60 mph, it is very unnerving to have the car swerving so close to the surrounding cars.


----------



## garsh

I tried something else this morning.
On that same curve of I79-I279 (but going the opposite direction), I made a little contraption to display how the steering wheel behaves and tried recording it with my phone. Apologies for the shaking.

You can see it approach the other lane a bit too closely around 20s, as the van passing me gets way over to the other side to avoid the "crazy driver" venturing too closely to his lane. 
The road straightened out at 22s. At about 23s, you can see my car swing over even closer to the other lane before relaxing over to the middle.

Again, it's subtle, and doesn't come through too well on video. But as @Flashgj says above, it's unnerving when you're in traffic and the people around you see your car getting closer to their lane.


----------



## potatoee

I am noticing a significant degradation of the voice recognition capability. This includes new features and old. Earlier in this thread, there was a comment about providing bug reports. I have seen this but can attest that "bug report foo" will work, just not nearly as reliably as with previous releases. 

It appears to me (for now) that this degradation is overshadowing how to use the new commands.

Time will tell but I was curious to see if others are having the same experience.


----------



## TomT

It works pretty well for me but occasionally becomes mute and I have to do a two finger and one foot salute to reboot it...



potatoee said:


> I am noticing a significant degradation of the voice recognition capability.
> Time will tell but I was curious to see if others are having the same experience.


----------



## Hollywood7

Shadow LI said:


> This might be a known issue or maybe I've just accepted it. When changing from one streaming favorite channel to another, it takes 5-10 seconds every time before channel kicks in. Just me?


The car is streaming the station you choose, so it needs that time to buffer (store 15-20 seconds of the song) to prevent cutting in & out.


----------



## DocScott

garsh said:


> I tried something else this morning.
> On that same curve of I79-I279 (but going the opposite direction), I made a little contraption to display how the steering wheel behaves and tried recording it with my phone. Apologies for the shaking.
> 
> You can see it approach the other lane a bit too closely around 20s, as the van passing me gets way over to the other side to avoid the "crazy driver" venturing too closely to his lane.
> The road straightened out at 22s. At about 23s, you can see my car swing over even closer to the other lane before relaxing over to the middle.
> 
> Again, it's subtle, and doesn't come through to well on video. But as @Flashgj says above, it's unnerving when you're in traffic and the people around you see your car getting closer to their lane.


I love the contraption!

I think the visualization can also give us a lot of information as to what's going on. It's just barely in frame in your video, but two different times you can see the left ultrasonic flash when a car goes by, and the steering wheel immediately corrects to the right both times. But then AP wants to bias toward the inside of the curve, so it heads back left again.

So in your particular case it may be that AP is biasing too much toward the inside of the curve, but then whenever a car comes by it overreacts to the ultrasonics and pushes the car back right. The first problem is an old problem. The second one is part of the newish behavior of biasing away from cars in adjacent lanes. The combination causes a bit of ping-ponging for you. If no cars come by, as in your first video, you only get the taking-the-curve-too-tight phenomenon, which means just one oscillation left and then back right.


----------



## francoisp

Regarding the ping-pong effect, would a factory reset clear the memorized sensor settings and allow them to be refreshed?


----------



## John

Mike said:


> Since I got V10.X the car is doing a lot of ping ponging. It's this software version, it's not a hardware issue


I guess I was searching for a hardware issue because my car doesn't do that. With the same software.


----------



## John

TomT said:


> It works pretty well for me but occasionally becomes mute and I have to do a two finger and one foot salute to reboot it...


Small point, but I don't think the brake does anything during Model 3 MCU reboots.


----------



## motocoder

potatoee said:


> I am noticing a significant degradation of the voice recognition capability. This includes new features and old. Earlier in this thread, there was a comment about providing bug reports. I have seen this but can attest that "bug report foo" will work, just not nearly as reliably as with previous releases.
> 
> It appears to me (for now) that this degradation is overshadowing how to use the new commands.
> 
> Time will tell but I was curious to see if others are having the same experience.


In theory the voice commands are sending some representation of the audio over the air to a server. I wonder if the "fix" in 50.7 was to increase the compression of the audio so as to lower the (network) load on the server. If so, that might explain an overall decrease in recognition quality.


----------



## Zek

garsh said:


> I tried something else this morning.
> On that same curve of I79-I279 (but going the opposite direction), I made a little contraption to display how the steering wheel behaves and tried recording it with my phone. Apologies for the shaking.
> 
> You can see it approach the other lane a bit too closely around 20s, as the van passing me gets way over to the other side to avoid the "crazy driver" venturing too closely to his lane.
> The road straightened out at 22s. At about 23s, you can see my car swing over even closer to the other lane before relaxing over to the middle.
> 
> Again, it's subtle, and doesn't come through too well on video. But as @Flashgj says above, it's unnerving when you're in traffic and the people around you see your car getting closer to their lane.


1 - I dont think its the same problem. The car has path prediction and the black line next to the white line is possibly offsetting the path prediction in an irregular way - Ask tesla to pull auto pilot data for that part of road.
Try the same thing on the highway that does not have a black line.

2 - The car in front of you is slightly ping ponging as well - its also possible thats how most human drivers drive on that section of road leading to your auto pilot deciding that "if a human can play that game" !!!


----------



## Reliev

bwilson4web said:


> I've seen that too.
> 
> Bob Wilson


same here but my highway is a wreck right now they have been doing a lot of construction so it thinks im on a sidestreet did your highway recently get changed/updated? I dont think the camera is reading the speeds and that is the reason we are having this issue.


----------



## GDN

This release has hit just over 90% of the fleet per Teslafi's sampling. All others are dwindling.

I figure we've got 2 to 3 weeks and we'll get another big release with most of the voice commands and ping ponging fixed. They created the problems and we always get fixes to improve in future releases.


----------



## iChris93

GDN said:


> This release has hit just over 90% of the fleet per Teslafi's sampling.  All others are dwindling.
> 
> I figure we've got 2 to 3 weeks and we'll get another big release with most of the voice commands and ping ponging fixed. They created the problems and we always get fixes to improve in future releases.


🤞


----------



## Needsdecaf

GDN said:


> This release has hit just over 90% of the fleet per Teslafi's sampling. All others are dwindling.
> 
> I figure we've got 2 to 3 weeks and we'll get another big release with most of the voice commands and ping ponging fixed. They created the problems and we always get fixes to improve in future releases.


Was honestly hoping that with 50.1 to 50.4 to 50.7 that they'd have figured out most of the bugs by then.

* Still ping-ponging a bit, although it's better. Seems to "bite" at the corners as others have shown.
* Reading text does not mute / pause infotainment. Major fail. 
* Voice command recognition still really hit / miss whether it registers you at all. Both for voice commands and when dictating texts. 
* Infotatinment playback volume freezes occasionally coming out of voice commands / texts. 
* Voice command card sometimes "stuck" and you cannot navigate to trip / tire pressure, etc.


----------



## GeoJohn23

Needsdecaf said:


> Was honestly hoping that with 50.1 to 50.4 to 50.7 that they'd have figured out most of the bugs by then.
> 
> * Still ping-ponging a bit, although it's better. Seems to "bite" at the corners as others have shown.
> * Reading text does not mute / pause infotainment. Major fail.
> * Voice command recognition still really hit / miss whether it registers you at all. Both for voice commands and when dictating texts.
> * Infotatinment playback volume freezes occasionally coming out of voice commands / texts.
> * Voice command card sometimes "stuck" and you cannot navigate to trip / tire pressure, etc.


and
* more frequent, longer delays in shifting into reverse and having backup camera come on.
* frequent failure of profile activation from easy entry to your profile (sometimes not coming out of easy entry at all, sometimes the screen shows that it's gone to your profile, but it hasn't actually and switching back to Easy Entry and then back to your profile will *then* move seat/steering/etc.
*occasional failure of homelink to activate, or significant delay between when one hears the chime and/or sees the icon signal activation and when the door gets the signal and starts moving.

these are all new with the 50.x - curious if these are on others with just pre-FSD computer which might indicate that the new code is overloading 2.5, or if it's just issues in the code itself...


----------



## Needsdecaf

GeoJohn23 said:


> and
> * more frequent, longer delays in shifting into reverse and having backup camera come on.
> * frequent failure of profile activation from easy entry to your profile (sometimes not coming out of easy entry at all, sometimes the screen shows that it's gone to your profile, but it hasn't actually and switching back to Easy Entry and then back to your profile will *then* move seat/steering/etc.
> *occasional failure of homelink to activate, or significant delay between when one hears the chime and/or sees the icon signal activation and when the door gets the signal and starts moving.
> 
> these are all new with the 50.x - curious if these are on others with just pre-FSD computer which might indicate that the new code is overloading 2.5, or if it's just issues in the code itself...


I've noticed that you need to "pause" longer between stepping on the brake and hitting reverse. There is definitely more delay required. But the camera comes on for me as soon as reverse is active.

Haven't had any issues with profiles / easy entry or homelink though, other than the issue with having LED landscaping lights screw up my garage door reception at night.


----------



## DocScott

GeoJohn23 said:


> and
> * more frequent, longer delays in shifting into reverse and having backup camera come on.
> * frequent failure of profile activation from easy entry to your profile (sometimes not coming out of easy entry at all, sometimes the screen shows that it's gone to your profile, but it hasn't actually and switching back to Easy Entry and then back to your profile will *then* move seat/steering/etc.
> *occasional failure of homelink to activate, or significant delay between when one hears the chime and/or sees the icon signal activation and when the door gets the signal and starts moving.
> 
> these are all new with the 50.x - curious if these are on others with just pre-FSD computer which might indicate that the new code is overloading 2.5, or if it's just issues in the code itself...


None of that should have anything to do with FSD hardware; I think that's mostly the MCU.


----------



## Mike

My car would not wake up from deep sleep this morning.

My standard morning protocol was followed to the letter.

When I tried both my drivers rear and then my drivers front door handles, there was no "clunk" from the rear of the car and the screen stayed dark.

It took about 15 seconds for the car to respond.

After my daily errands, I did the twin scroll reset plus the full power down.

I hope that clears it up for tomorrow......


----------



## Needsdecaf

Mike said:


> My car would not wake up from deep sleep this morning.
> 
> My standard morning protocol was followed to the letter.
> 
> When I tried both my drivers rear and then my drivers front door handles, there was no "clunk" from the rear of the car and the screen stayed dark.
> 
> It took about 15 seconds for the car to respond.
> 
> After my daily errands, I did the twin scroll reset plus the full power down.
> 
> I hope that clears it up for tomorrow......


I have that happen occasionally depending on where I have the phone. Especially if it's in my back pocket. And occasionally...just because.


----------



## Mike

Needsdecaf said:


> I have that happen occasionally depending on where I have the phone. Especially if it's in my back pocket. And occasionally...just because.


I even pulled my phone out of its usual breast pocket and held it next to the B pillar, to no effect, until the car decided to wake up.


----------



## motocoder

This afternoon I parked my car in the garage and immediately went to plug in the charger. The charge door wouldn't open when I pressed the button on the charger handle. I ended up having to go into the car and open it from the console.


----------



## Needsdecaf

motocoder said:


> This afternoon I parked my car in the garage and immediately went to plug in the charger. The charge door wouldn't open when I pressed the button on the charger handle. I ended up having to go into the car and open it from the console.


Have that happen every now and then. Try pressing on the charge door to see if that will open it before you go inside the car. Bit easier.


----------



## Ze1000

motocoder said:


> This afternoon I parked my car in the garage and immediately went to plug in the charger. The charge door wouldn't open when I pressed the button on the charger handle. I ended up having to go into the car and open it from the console.


You can just push the charge door itself. No need to do it from the dashboard.


----------



## bernie

bernie said:


> installed 50.7; Drove an all NOA trip from San Francisco via the bay bridge to Oakland 580 corridor at night - so lots of freeway twists and turns And a hill or two - no ping pong! I noticed the hard phantom break has really mellowed out.


Trip # 2 from San Francisco to Grass Valley - the ping ponging is back on the bay bridge and other parts of the trip made Auto pilot unusable. Odd it worked better at night on the bridge than the far right lane in the daylight- maybe confusing shadows. Definitely NOA got squirrely near large vehicles.


----------



## garsh

Mike said:


> I even pulled my phone out of its usual breast pocket and held it next to the B pillar, to no effect, until the car decided to wake up.


The B-pillar contains an NFC sensor, so unless your phone also has NFC, that won't do much. Holding a keycard near the B pillar should wake it up though.

The Bluetooth antennas are in the side-view mirrors.


----------



## DocScott

bernie said:


> Trip # 2 from San Francisco to Grass Valley - the ping ponging is back on the bay bridge and other parts of the trip made Auto pilot unusable. Odd it worked better at night on the bridge than the far right lane in the daylight- maybe confusing shadows. Definitely NOA got squirrely near large vehicles.


Far right lane on the Bay Bridge? There's a physical barrier on the right side. It could well have to do with the ultrasonics being out of calibration and overreacting to that barrier.


----------



## SR22pilot

motocoder said:


> This afternoon I parked my car in the garage and immediately went to plug in the charger. The charge door wouldn't open when I pressed the button on the charger handle. I ended up having to go into the car and open it from the console.


Another "solution" is to open and close the trunk. That wakes the car up and it will then see the button on the charge handle being pressed.


----------



## StromTrooperM3

garsh said:


> The B-pillar contains an NFC sensor


Is it possible to create another nfc "key card" that would actually be our phone?

Could be a good backup plan since they suggest carying the card in your wallet


----------



## John Di Cecco

SR22pilot said:


> Another "solution" is to open and close the trunk. That wakes the car up and it will then see the button on the charge handle being pressed.


I push the rear door handle in ever so slightly - enough to wake up the car, but not enough to open the door


----------



## Mike

garsh said:


> The B-pillar contains an NFC sensor, so unless your phone also has NFC, that won't do much. Holding a keycard near the B pillar should wake it up though.
> 
> The Bluetooth antennas are in the side-view mirrors.


Thanks for that tip, I had no idea (obviously) 

My car woke up normally this morning


----------



## joelliot

garsh said:


> The B-pillar contains an NFC sensor, so unless your phone also has NFC, that won't do much. Holding a keycard near the B pillar should wake it up though.
> 
> The Bluetooth antennas are in the side-view mirrors.


I have had to open the Tesla app some times before the car will unlock. Happens once a month or so, no idea why it work the other 99% and why it doesn't some mornings. If it's raining, I'll actually open the app and unlock the doors before I walk to the car just so I'm not fumbling around in the rain.


----------



## garsh

StromTrooperM3 said:


> Is it possible to create another nfc "key card" that would actually be our phone?


I think @darco is investigating those sorts of possibilities here:

Reverse Engineering Model 3 NFC Protocol



> Could be a good backup plan since they suggest carying the card in your wallet


If a phone's NFC still works when the phone is dead/off, that would be a nice backup.


----------



## garsh

joelliot said:


> I have had to open the Tesla app some times before the car will unlock. Happens once a month or so, no idea why it work the other 99% and why it doesn't some mornings. If it's raining, I'll actually open the app and unlock the doors before I walk to the car just so I'm not fumbling around in the rain.


I've had to do that with my last phone. I think it was due to the phone being underpowered.


----------



## Feathermerchant

My phone has NFC. I just enabled it and it now unlocks the doors with a tap on the B pillar.


----------



## Drhalo

50.x is buggy piece of garbage.
Voice commands DO NOT WORK. I hit the voice command button, and half the time it registers that I am speaking, the other half it just waits.
When it does register, it constantly won't let me report bugs. Tells me bad utterance. 
Saying Listen to CNN, has the system NAVIGATE to CNN, and plots a very long drive to Atlanta.
I haven't been able to get Texts working at all.

It's so frustrating that what was working just great is now completely un-usable. I was super tolerant with Tesla on some of the bugs, but these bugs make the entire experience miserable and unusable. I now have to be distracted while I hunt and peck just to listen to freaking audio stations.

Tesla, you have to stop with the stupid video games and focus on your UI and fixing usability. You are breaking too much.


----------



## garsh

Feathermerchant said:


> My phone has NFC. I just enabled it and it now unlocks the doors with a tap on the B pillar.


Does it work if the phone is powered down?


----------



## victor

garsh said:


> Does it work if the phone is powered down?


At least for Android you have to wake it up.
https://teslaownersonline.com/threa...-upgrades-12-19-2019.6307/page-10#post-266250


----------



## Feathermerchant

Powered down means 'OFF' to me. I haven't tried that and I would not expect it to work. That would not be good anyway because then anyone with the phone could drive the car.

When powered on and locked, it will not lock/unlock the car. 
When powered on and unlocked will it lock/unlock the car.

I think the above is the best since the phone has to be unlocked before it will lock/unlock the car.


----------



## garsh

Feathermerchant said:


> Powered down means 'OFF' to me. I haven't tried that and I would not expect it to work. That would not be good anyway because then anyone with the phone could drive the car.


I was curious if it could act similar to a keycard, which is unpowered.


----------



## Feathermerchant

The card has no power source of its own. It has an antenna that is large enough to use the RF it receives as power and signal. The chip onboard is permanently coded. I don't think it is programmable once we get it.
When it encounters a strong enough RF field of the right type, it responds with the pre-programmed code which the terminal in the car reads.

I just don't see how the phone could work like that. And at least my phone does not work like that.


----------



## Long Ranger

Feathermerchant said:


> When powered on and locked, it will not lock/unlock the car.
> When powered on and unlocked will it lock/unlock the car.
> 
> I think the above is the best since the phone has to be unlocked before it will lock/unlock the car.


Is that how yours works for Bluetooth unlock as well? Personally, I prefer the convenience of walk up unlock without touching my phone. I'm not really any more concerned about my phone being used by someone else than I was about my key on previous cars.


----------



## Feathermerchant

Bluetooth works to unlock the car doors when the phone is locked. I guess that is a security hole.
I can also open the trunk with the phone locked and that does not unlock the car doors.


----------



## Kizzy

Feathermerchant said:


> My phone has NFC. I just enabled it and it now unlocks the doors with a tap on the B pillar.


Is it possible the NFC interaction wakes up the car which then recognizes your phone's Bluetooth connection?


----------



## Feathermerchant

I'm going out on a limb here but I expect that the B pillar terminal is active all the time (even when the car is asleep) and when it reads a device it wakes up the security system which validates the phone.
Bluetooth was turned off when I tried it last and the car still unlocked.


----------



## Hollywood7

SR22pilot said:


> Another "solution" is to open and close the trunk. That wakes the car up and it will then see the button on the charge handle being pressed.


Easier than that is to press the door handle on the rear door just enough to wake the car without opening the door


----------



## ibgeek

Drhalo said:


> 50.x is buggy piece of garbage.
> Voice commands DO NOT WORK. I hit the voice command button, and half the time it registers that I am speaking, the other half it just waits.
> When it does register, it constantly won't let me report bugs. Tells me bad utterance.
> Saying Listen to CNN, has the system NAVIGATE to CNN, and plots a very long drive to Atlanta.
> I haven't been able to get Texts working at all.
> 
> It's so frustrating that what was working just great is now completely un-usable. I was super tolerant with Tesla on some of the bugs, but these bugs make the entire experience miserable and unusable. I now have to be distracted while I hunt and peck just to listen to freaking audio stations.
> 
> Tesla, you have to stop with the stupid video games and focus on your UI and fixing usability. You are breaking too much.


I really wish there was a disagree button. I understand you are frustrated and I'm not trying to invalidate your opinion in any way. But that's just not how it is for everyone. I do hope you notified Tesla support. Simply posting your experience here is good for getting your frustrations off your chest, but it will do very little to aid in correcting the problem. I hope you find a speedy solution to your vehicles issues.


----------



## MelindaV

GeoJohn23 said:


> *occasional failure of homelink to activate, or significant delay between when one hears the chime and/or sees the icon signal activation and when the door gets the signal and starts moving.


today was the 2nd time (other was on Dec15 with 2019.40.2.1) homelink did not close my garage when departing. it has worked perfectly when leaving for well over a year (arriving has always been a little more sketchy, needing to be at a dead on approach to have it actually signal the opener).


----------



## StromTrooperM3

garsh said:


> If a phone's NFC still works when the phone is dead/off, that would be a nice backup.


I haven't had a dead cell phone in 10 years. Just like our cars, there is no reason you should run out of battery if you're paying attention.

Wireless charger is the best $100 accessory I added to my car. Always topping off my car key while I'm driving 👍

I'm thinking more so for dependability with NFC. However my bt connection has VASTLY improved over the past few sw releases. I just used the card for the first time in a year of ownership this week because I left it with a shop to get clayed and waxed. Otherwise it's been sitting in a drawer.

Thanks for the link I'll check it out. I'm not gonna go as far as implanting it in my hand though 😉


----------



## StromTrooperM3

MelindaV said:


> (arriving has always been a little more sketchy, needing to be at a dead on approach to have it actually signal the opener).


Just as a point of reference. mine activates perfectly with the car facing perpendicular to my garage door at about 80 feet away. It always fires before I actually turn into my driveway and the door is fully open by the time I drive up. I have it set to the maximum distance

The auto open on arrival is the best thing since sliced bread 😀


----------



## bwilson4web

While replacing the wheel bearings and SOC maintained by the portable, 120 VAC, EVSE, 2019.40.50.7 came in. When I later plugged our SR+ Model 3 into the L2 charger:








Apparently 'preconditioning' was latched ON. I normally do a double button reset which I did before this trip. After setting the departure schedule, the problem seems OK.

One minor problem, with departure schedule set, when I return home, I have to manually start charging. For example, returning home around 5 PM, the plug-in was fine but the car had to be commanded to charge.

What I want is:

immediate charging to limit when returning home
at departure time, do the 'preconditioning' cycle
Any recommendations?

Bob Wilson


----------



## SR22pilot

Feathermerchant said:


> Bluetooth works to unlock the car doors when the phone is locked. I guess that is a security hole.
> I can also open the trunk with the phone locked and that does not unlock the car doors.


If you are worried about someone stealing you phone, use PIN to drive. Stealing your phone is the same as stealing a key fob on other cars.


----------



## Tesla Newbie

Feathermerchant said:


> Bluetooth works to unlock the car doors when the phone is locked. I guess that is a security hole.


Perhaps, but I'm sure it's intentional. Some percentage of us prefer the convenience of never having to remove the phone from pockets or purses over a risk that's no greater than the possibility of a stolen key card or physical key in the old days. There are valid arguments on both sides so the solution would be to make the "unlock phone to enable key" choice a configurable option.


----------



## DocScott

ibgeek said:


> I really wish there was a disagree button. I understand you are frustrated and I'm not trying to invalidate your opinion in any way. But that's just not how it is for everyone. I do hope you notified Tesla support. Simply posting your experience here is good for getting your frustrations off your chest, but it will do very little to aid in correcting the problem. I hope you find a speedy solution to your vehicles issues.


It's about more than venting. That post was very useful for me: I have not yet updated to 40.50.x because I don't want to risk messing up existing voice-recognition features. Your post is useful, too--it helps me gauge the risk.

Of course, there's a lot of selection bias on a forum: people are more likely to post when they have a problem. My guess right now is that if I updated to 40.50.x, I'd be running perhaps a 20% chance of degrading the existing voice recognition.

Since the most common theory is that the voice-recognition issues are server-side and thus might get better without a new firmware update, I hope people continue to post their experiences with them so I can know if they're getting better over time.

Also, and separately, what happens when _you_ say "Listen to CNN"? Does that work properly, or does it plot a course for Atlanta?


----------



## Ksb466

MelindaV said:


> today was the 2nd time (other was on Dec15 with 2019.40.2.1) homelink did not close my garage when departing. it has worked perfectly when leaving for well over a year (arriving has always been a little more sketchy, needing to be at a dead on approach to have it actually signal the opener).


One possibility to rule out is that when leaving is your garage door eye sensor causing it to abort, which would be a garage door issue ,not Tesla, especially if it only happens upon leaving. I found that to be a cause here recently , after mentally blaming Tesla Homelink .


----------



## GDN

MelindaV said:


> today was the 2nd time (other was on Dec15 with 2019.40.2.1) homelink did not close my garage when departing. it has worked perfectly when leaving for well over a year (arriving has always been a little more sketchy, needing to be at a dead on approach to have it actually signal the opener).


We don't use auto close, mainly because, well two model 3's and we leave for work most every morning at the same time. So first person backs out then sure enough that car would want to close the door on the second car, so we don't use it.

However I've used auto open since day 1. I don't know that I've ever had it not open the door. We keep the distance set to a relatively low number like 30' simply because we have alley's and rear entry garages. If I have the distance set to much more than that and I come home and park out front on the street for a bit, it wants to raise the door if I set the distance much more than the 30 to 40' distance.

One last thought - I get a bit crazy about a few things and one of them is the garage door closing. After I back out I never drive away if I haven't seen the door closed. When I first bought the house 20 years ago I had an old opener and I came home multiple times to an open garage door. I could never figure out if I wasn't closing it in the morning or if someone else's opener was triggering my door. So I finally got in the habit of backing out and watching it close. Still trained to do that to this day. I've also updated the opener again to a one that is connected, I can check and close remotely to help my OCD.


----------



## ibgeek

DocScott said:


> It's about more than venting. That post was very useful for me: I have not yet updated to 40.50.x because I don't want to risk messing up existing voice-recognition features. Your post is useful, too--it helps me gauge the risk.
> 
> Of course, there's a lot of selection bias on a forum: people are more likely to post when they have a problem. My guess right now is that if I updated to 40.50.x, I'd be running perhaps a 20% chance of degrading the existing voice recognition.
> 
> Since the most common theory is that the voice-recognition issues are server-side and thus might get better without a new firmware update, I hope people continue to post their experiences with them so I can know if they're getting better over time.
> 
> Also, and separately, what happens when _you_ say "Listen to CNN"? Does that work properly, or does it plot a course for Atlanta?


That's a valid perspective. I guess the main point I wanted to make was that direct contact with Tesla should be a persons priority when having issues. The more noise they hear about a problem, the more priority they will put in to corrective measures. 
As to listening to CNN does not work for me either however it does not try to navigate, instead it tells me that the command is not yet available. (or something to that affect) As someone who has been heavy in to home automation since the 90's Voice activation reliability, while miles better than in the past, still has a way to go. Especially where accents or certain languages are concerned. And there are inflections, tonal qualities and slight imperfections that we all have that make every voice very unique. Tesla is not quite where Google or Amazon are yet, but they will be. While others might disagree, from the perspective of an IT guy, I think that the extra pain we experience now during this rapid innovation will be well worth it in the end. We'll have gotten much further, much faster for it.


----------



## MelindaV

Ksb466 said:


> One possibility to rule out is that when leaving is your garage door eye sensor causing it to abort, which would be a garage door issue ,not Tesla, especially if it only happens upon leaving. I found that to be a cause here recently , after mentally blaming Tesla Homelink .


there has been at least one other time I did notice before driving away (also in the last month) and manually hit the homeland button... so don't think it is an issue with the door sensor itself.


----------



## MelindaV

GDN said:


> We don't use auto close, mainly because, well two model 3's and we leave for work most every morning at the same time. So first person backs out then sure enough that car would want to close the door on the second car, so we don't use it.
> 
> However I've used auto open since day 1. I don't know that I've ever had it not open the door. We keep the distance set to a relatively low number like 30' simply because we have alley's and rear entry garages. If I have the distance set to much more than that and I come home and park out front on the street for a bit, it wants to raise the door if I set the distance much more than the 30 to 40' distance.
> 
> One last thought - I get a bit crazy about a few things and one of them is the garage door closing. After I back out I never drive away if I haven't seen the door closed. When I first bought the house 20 years ago I had an old opener and I came home multiple times to an open garage door. I could never figure out if I wasn't closing it in the morning or if someone else's opener was triggering my door. So I finally got in the habit of backing out and watching it close. Still trained to do that to this day. I've also updated the opener again to a one that is connected, I can check and close remotely to help my OCD.


with my previous car, and using the manual clicker button, I would press the button when turning the previous corner (so before the house was in sight) about 150-175' away. with homelink in the car, either manually pressing the screen button, or it automatically triggering, it has to be pointed straight at the garage door, and within about 30 feet max - so max at my driveway's curb. with about half the time it chiming but not actually activating the opener and I have to come to a complete stop in the driveway and press the button 1, 2, 3 times. annoying for sure.
but as mentioned earlier, for me, leaving has always been perfect. right as I am backing over the driveway curb, it chimes and closes the door. I 'think' I always check to make sure it's closed, but apparently at least 2x this last month didn't.
BUT, just arriving from Amazon is the Chamberlain/Liftmaster MyQ hub and bridge that I'd been considering adding for the last year or two - so at least if it happens again, I can close it (or at least be alerted before my garage camera or light motion sensor notices movement and alerts me).


----------



## GeoJohn23

MelindaV said:


> with my previous car, and using the manual clicker button, I would press the button when turning the previous corner (so before the house was in sight) about 150-175' away. with homelink in the car, either manually pressing the screen button, or it automatically triggering, it has to be pointed straight at the garage door, and within about 30 feet max - so max at my driveway's curb. with about half the time it chiming but not actually activating the opener and I have to come to a complete stop in the driveway and press the button 1, 2, 3 times. annoying for sure.
> but as mentioned earlier, for me, leaving has always been perfect. right as I am backing over the driveway curb, it chimes and closes the door. I 'think' I always check to make sure it's closed, but apparently at least 2x this last month didn't.
> BUT, just arriving from Amazon is the Chamberlain/Liftmaster MyQ hub and bridge that I'd been considering adding for the last year or two - so at least if it happens again, I can close it (or at least be alerted before my garage camera or light motion sensor notices movement and alerts me).


+1 on the myQ add-on. I added that to my door a few years ago and it's been great. Set it up to send me an alert if the door is open for more than 10 min, then again if more than 30 mins, and again at 45mins and 1 hr. Has been very useful even independent of the car. You can also link this to Amazon Key and that lets the Amazon deliverer open your garage door, put your package(s) inside your garage, and close it back up (I get txt alerts for this too)... but I've only so far used it this way once because while I have a front yard camera, I don't have one in the garage to verify that the deliverer only did the drop off and nothing else.


----------



## garsh

MelindaV said:


> today was the 2nd time (other was on Dec15 with 2019.40.2.1) homelink did not close my garage when departing. it has worked perfectly when leaving for well over a year (arriving has always been a little more sketchy, needing to be at a dead on approach to have it actually signal the opener).


Homelink continues to work perfectly for me.


----------



## StromTrooperM3

GDN said:


> I get a bit crazy about a few things and one of them is the garage door closing


I always back my vehicles into my garage. On more occasions than I care to admit I've come home with the door still open hours later after just driving into the sunset and not looking back

I finally installed a Chamberlain MyQ module and it's been a lifesaver for times I've driven off without closing it. Also comes in handy when I have to open it remotely for a family member dropping something off without giving them the code.

I have an alert set if it's left open more than 20 minutes for whatever reason...


I just don't trust the Auto close with summon or otherwise


----------



## littlD

DocScott said:


> Also, and separately, what happens when _you_ say "Listen to CNN"? Does that work properly, or does it plot a course for Atlanta?


Try it, and if it works, post it to our forum's Voice Commands list!


----------



## Kizzy

Is anyone noticing the screen flickering when watching videos?

I’ve noticed the last couple of times I’ve watched YouTube, the video flickers (both on WiFi and over cellular). The screen does not appear to flicker when video is not playing.

I have Hardware 2.5 in a Model 3.


----------



## DocScott

littlD said:


> Try it, and if it works, post it to our forum's Voice Commands list!


I haven't updated to 40.50.x yet. I'm using all of you as guinea pigs.


----------



## MelindaV

DocScott said:


> I haven't updated to 40.50.x yet. I'm using all of you as guinea pigs.


this release (or set of releases) really hasn't been any more problematic than any previous release. just in different ways. and mostly related to the newest features being released.


----------



## bwilson4web

Auto-steering handles two edge cases better:









Merging two lanes into one - the left images, show that in the past, the dashed lane line would cause the car to 'split the difference' and approach the right solid line. In the past, this led to *ALARM* and needing manual intervention. But twice on separate merges, the car smoothly changed lanes over the dashed line without manual intervention.
Curved dashed line intersection - the right image shows when crossing an intersection with a curved, dashed, guide lane marker, the car would try to avoid crossing and cause an unwelcome lane change. There was a brief zig but the car quickly steered back to the correct lane. This has only been seen once and needs replication.
The only auto-steering less-than-perfect occurred on a fairly sharp, 25-30 mph curve. The car seemed to follow 'segments' through the curve rather than a smooth turn. I've only seen this once so it needs replication.

Bob Wilson


----------



## SimonMatthews

bwilson4web said:


> Auto-steering handles two edge cases better:
> 
> Bob Wilson


It's still failing my "Mission Boulevard to I880 South on-ramp test". In the carpool on-ramp lane, which curves to the left, it cannot keep the car in the lane: it turns too sharply and goes onto the shoulder. Since this is almost on the boundary of the factory, I am surprised that it hasn't got fixed yet.

I have not had problems with lanes merging, unless there is traffic alongside, so either speeding up or slowing down in necessary to avoid a collision.

I also experienced worse phantom braking on the I880S to 237 carpool connector, just as it goes under McCarthy Boulevard.


----------



## DocScott

MelindaV said:


> this release (or set of releases) really hasn't been any more problematic than any previous release. just in different ways. and mostly related to the newest features being released.


What is your basis for that claim? It appears to me that a significant fraction of people with this update are experiencing problems with voice recognition. Yes, that's "related" the the newest features being released, but it is not itself a new feature, since it affects voice control of navigation and media, both of which have long been features. Here are different users reporting problems, just from this thread:


Mike said:


> I share everyone's enthusiasm in meeting the FSD future ASAP, but we have IMO regressed from V9.x.
> 
> Overcompensating ping-ponging, too willing to de-couple if the sun is low in the sky or water splashes on a camera, a software cheat (IMO) to always get into a left lane prior to approaching any interchange instead of only doing so if there is traffic ahead.....even voice commands that are less than 20% reliable (these should NOT need connectivity to work).





Lgkahn said:


> Voice cmds definitely broken. Can only say bug report. Not bug report xxxx is not working etc. Also should lower volume of other audio when reading texts.and should be able to.click.again to stop reading a text. Especially for.long ones which can get annoying.





StromTrooperM3 said:


> I was having this issue as well yesterday. Maybe 1 in 10 car commands (change temp, heated seat on etc) worked. Navigation seemed to work every time.





shareef777 said:


> Voice commands were all failing yesterday. Did a reset with no change. Was working fine yesterday morning. Are the servers still inundated?





potatoee said:


> I am noticing a significant degradation of the voice recognition capability. This includes new features and old. Earlier in this thread, there was a comment about providing bug reports. I have seen this but can attest that "bug report foo" will work, just not nearly as reliably as with previous releases.
> 
> It appears to me (for now) that this degradation is overshadowing how to use the new commands.
> 
> Time will tell but I was curious to see if others are having the same experience.





TomT said:


> It works pretty well for me but occasionally becomes mute and I have to do a two finger and one foot salute to reboot it...





motocoder said:


> In theory the voice commands are sending some representation of the audio over the air to a server. I wonder if the "fix" in 50.7 was to increase the compression of the audio so as to lower the (network) load on the server. If so, that might explain an overall decrease in recognition quality.





Needsdecaf said:


> Was honestly hoping that with 50.1 to 50.4 to 50.7 that they'd have figured out most of the bugs by then.
> 
> * Voice command recognition still really hit / miss whether it registers you at all. Both for voice commands and when dictating texts.
> * Infotatinment playback volume freezes occasionally coming out of voice commands / texts.
> * Voice command card sometimes "stuck" and you cannot navigate to trip / tire pressure, etc.





Drhalo said:


> 50.x is buggy piece of garbage.
> Voice commands DO NOT WORK. I hit the voice command button, and half the time it registers that I am speaking, the other half it just waits.
> When it does register, it constantly won't let me report bugs. Tells me bad utterance.
> Saying Listen to CNN, has the system NAVIGATE to CNN, and plots a very long drive to Atlanta.
> I haven't been able to get Texts working at all.
> 
> It's so frustrating that what was working just great is now completely un-usable. I was super tolerant with Tesla on some of the bugs, but these bugs make the entire experience miserable and unusable. I now have to be distracted while I hunt and peck just to listen to freaking audio stations.
> 
> Tesla, you have to stop with the stupid video games and focus on your UI and fixing usability. You are breaking too much.


----------



## bwilson4web

Can we get some more details:


SimonMatthews said:


> It's still failing my "Mission Boulevard to I880 South on-ramp test". In the carpool on-ramp lane, which curves to the left, it cannot keep the car in the lane: it turns too sharply and goes onto the shoulder. Since this is almost on the boundary of the factory, I am surprised that it hasn't got fixed yet.


Is this the on-ramp?









Street view does not show a left-side lane marker on the car pool lane. Is that the case today?
What is the typical speed on this curve?
Any possibility of a video showing the left side of center and left side of windshield?
The reason I ask is I have a similar geometry curve in Huntsville but it has clear lane lines. It ends adjacent to a Southbound pair of lanes that it used to 'wander in' but Friday, everything was as expected.

The best way to address a problem is to have multiple examples from different locations. Then the 'powers that be' can clearly analyze the problem for common elements.

Bob Wilson


----------



## SimonMatthews

bwilson4web said:


> Can we get some more details:
> 
> Is this the on-ramp?
> View attachment 31701
> 
> 
> Street view does not show a left-side lane marker on the car pool lane. Is that the case today?
> What is the typical speed on this curve?
> Any possibility of a video showing the left side of center and left side of windshield?
> The reason I ask is I have a similar geometry curve in Huntsville but it has clear lane lines. It ends adjacent to a Southbound pair of lanes that it used to 'wander in' but Friday, everything was as expected.
> 
> The best way to address a problem is to have multiple examples from different locations. Then the 'powers that be' can clearly analyze the problem for common elements.
> 
> Bob Wilson


That's the on ramp. The lane markings are not clear, but they are there. Typical speed is around 60mph.


----------



## bwilson4web

SimonMatthews said:


> That's the on ramp. The lane markings are not clear, but they are there. Typical speed is around 60mph.


That is why a video of the problem, both 3D party and Tesla cam is important. With the 3D party time stamps and GPS, Tesla has a clue. It can clearly show the problem before we share it with the NHTSA, NTSB, and broadcast media.

Bob Wilson


----------



## Mike

MelindaV said:


> there has been at least one other time I did notice before driving away (also in the last month) and manually hit the homeland button... so don't think it is an issue with the door sensor itself.


For whatever reason, in the past six weeks I have had to delete and then reinstall my garage door into the Homelink setup to cure a sudden refusal to autoclose the door.


----------



## sterickson

bwilson4web said:


> The car seemed to follow 'segments' through the curve rather than a smooth turn.


This is what has been driving me crazy for a while now. The car feels like it always wants to drive straight ahead. When it encounters a turn, it turns a tiny bit, then drives straight. Then turns a tiny bit, and goes straight. Then turns a tiny bit, and goes straight. Ad infinitum, until it exits the turn.

It used to make a smooth arc through curves.


----------



## garsh

sterickson said:


> This is what has been driving me crazy for a while now. The car feels like it always wants to drive straight ahead. When it encounters a turn, it turns a tiny bit, then drives straight. Then turns a tiny bit, and goes straight. Then turns a tiny bit, and goes straight. Ad infinitum, until it exits the turn.
> 
> It used to make a smooth arc through curves.


That sounds like what the rest of us are calling oscillations or "ping-ponging".


----------



## gary in NY

On my HomeLink setup, I open and close the garage doors manually. I've not had any problems with range or direction of the vehicle, and the on screen menu pops up at least 100' before the garage. I also have my outside lights programed on one channel. My only problem is that it will usually only preform one function before the menu disappears (open one door or turn on lights), but sometimes I can get it to do both one door and the lights without having to revive the menu.


----------



## Zek

garsh said:


> That sounds like what the rest of us are calling oscillations or "ping-ponging".


I have sean multiple examples of the car drifting to follow a drifting car in front of me. And I have felt ping-ponging coming out of a turn


----------



## wst88

Just completed about 900 miles - Detroit to Milwaukee and Back. There were a couple of things I noticed. one of which was significant.
1) Nav on Auto Pilot - Auto Lane change would make a left change to speed up around slow cars, but would never return to the right lane.
2) Roads were covered in Salt yesterday, had plenty of camera errors and notifications that they were blocked. It make you wonder why they do not have washer systems for the cameras.
3) ping-pong issue improved, I would call it more of a oscillation then ping pong now.
4) Pre heating of the battery seems much more aggressive when warming up the car.

All in all it was a great trip, I was on autopilot about 95% of the time. Has anyone else noticed the car not returning to the right lane after passing traffic?

Looking forward to your feedback.


----------



## FRC

wst88 said:


> Just completed about 900 miles - Detroit to Milwaukee and Back. There were a couple of things I noticed. one of which was significant.
> 1) Nav on Auto Pilot - Auto Lane change would make a left change to speed up around slow cars, but would never return to the right lane.
> 2) Roads were covered in Salt yesterday, had plenty of camera errors and notifications that they were blocked. It make you wonder why they do not have washer systems for the cameras.
> 3) ping-pong issue improved, I would call it more of a oscillation then ping pong now.
> 4) Pre heating of the battery seems much more aggressive when warming up the car.
> 
> All in all it was a great trip, I was on autopilot about 95% of the time. Has anyone else noticed the car not returning to the right lane after passing traffic?
> 
> Looking forward to your feedback.


Yes, I haven't been using NOA with 50.7 for this reason. NOA on 50.7 is a left lane hog.


----------



## tencate

FRC said:


> Yes, I haven't been using NOA with 50.7 for this reason. NOA on 50.7 is a left lane hog.


I actually had the car try to pass a vehicle on the RIGHT side (I was in the center lane of a 3 lane highway). Nooooooooooo! Bad Tesla. I cancelled it.


----------



## Kizzy

I'm definitely seeing the ping pong behavior on certain routes. It's annoying, but does keep you awake. I have to wonder how much AP annoyances are intentional.



wst88 said:


> […]Has anyone else noticed the car not returning to the right lane after passing traffic?
> 
> Looking forward to your feedback.


Yep. I starting to wonder if Tesla disabled the "move out of passing lane" feature because it's not reliable and/or annoying. Back when the feature was functional, during non carpool lane hours, the car wanted to get out of the lane adjacent to an HOV lane because it assumed it was the passing lane (HOV lane with colons, adjacent "passing" lane lane with dots in diagram below).

|| : | . | |
|| : | . | |
|| : | . | |


----------



## slotti

I am on HW 2.5, early April 2018 car with 13xxx vin. I know with 3.0, you get cones rendered, but I was assuming my car can see them and will react on them. Well, it doesn't. Was coming close to a construction zone on the 101 last night. Temp construction zone only, and the guys had beautifully blocked the right lane with cones at a very shallow angle slowly directing traffic into the next lane. My car did not care at all. It was little traffic, so I figured I would check how long it would take it to see the cones. Needless to say, it never did and I had to take over before I almost started running into them.


----------



## MelindaV

Kizzy said:


> Back when the feature was functional, during non carpool lane hours, the car wanted to get out of the lane adjacent to an HOV lane because it assumed it was the passing lane (HOV lane with colons, adjacent "passing" lane lane with dots in diagram below).
> 
> || : | . | |
> || : | . | |
> || : | . | |


My drive home is exactly this... 3 lanes with the left HOV from 3p to 6p weekdays. I most always am in the center lane on NoA and dont remember it ever suggesting to shift to the right. And it never shows the left (part time HOV) as an option. It can be 10pm on a Saturday and it still shows on the screen as a 2 lane freeway. I assumed tesla did not recognize the HOV scheduling, but your part time HOV does?


----------



## JeanDeBarraux

slotti said:


> I am on HW 2.5, early April 2018 car with 13xxx vin. I know with 3.0, you get cones rendered, but I was assuming my car can see them and will react on them. Well, it doesn't. Was coming close to a construction zone on the 101 last night. Temp construction zone only, and the guys had beautifully blocked the right lane with cones at a very shallow angle slowly directing traffic into the next lane. My car did not care at all. It was little traffic, so I figured I would check how long it would take it to see the cones. Needless to say, it never did and I had to take over before I almost started running into them.


The car doesn't care about fire trucks or other stopped vehicles that are on the way... In any case, even if it saw the construction cones, it probably wouldn't have avoided them, unless there were matching lane markings.


----------



## DocScott

JeanDeBarraux said:


> The car doesn't care about fire trucks or other stopped vehicles that are on the way... In any case, even if it saw the construction cones, it probably wouldn't have avoided them, unless there were matching lane markings.


I have HW2.5. Back on v9, I remember cases where AP _did_ follow cones. On the visualization, it simply showed the lane boundaries as where the cones were. Also, if there was a lane blocked off by cones, it knew that lane wasn't available for lane changes. Neither of those features were in 100% of the cases, but they worked more often than not.

I haven't noticed if those features still work with HW2.5 on v10. Since that was never an officially supported use case (you weren't supposed to use AP in construction zones), and since cone-recognition has likely been re-built for HW3, it wouldn't be surprising if the limited cone-recognition that HW2.5 used to have has gone away.


----------



## Kizzy

MelindaV said:


> My drive home is exactly this... 3 lanes with the left HOV from 3p to 6p weekdays. I most always am in the center lane on NoA and dont remember it ever suggesting to shift to the right. And it never shows the left (part time HOV) as an option. It can be 10pm on a Saturday and it still shows on the screen as a 2 lane freeway. I assumed tesla did not recognize the HOV scheduling, but your part time HOV does?


My car didn't know the scheduling and treated an HOV lane as permanent (in my experience and if I'm remembering correctly). I do have HOV access enabled in navigation and my car has routed me there in the past. The HOV lanes in my area are only distinguished by the HOV markings in the lane (lane lines do not deviate from non-HOV lane makings).


----------



## Enginerd

JeanDeBarraux said:


> The car doesn't care about fire trucks or other stopped vehicles that are on the way


While I get your point, this isn't completely true. Fair, we all know about Teslas on AP with inattentive drivers, which rammed into the back of a fire truck. But in the past few updates I've noticed that on the interstate, the car _does _move over to the far side of the lane for vehicles stopped on the shoulder. So... it's seeing them.

This week I've been driving a rented Volvo V90 with Pilot Assist. Functionality is similar... both systems will steer and come to a complete stop in traffic when needed. The major difference, though, is that the Tesla uses camera neural networks to identify other vehicles, whether they're stopped or not. The Volvo will decelerate behind a slow moving car. But if the Volvo comes upon a car in its lane that is already stopped, it will simply slam into the back of it. It would be easy to think that this is the classic radar problem (difficult to distinguish stationary objects). But I'm pretty sure Volvo has cameras for lane detection and centering. They're just not using them like Tesla is. Volvo is also unwilling to allow much steering authority while lane keeping. Slight bends exceed its capacity.

Tesla AP is the best system on the market. It's not perfect, but it* is *improving.


----------



## FRC

Enginerd said:


> While I get your point, this isn't completely true. Fair, we all know about Teslas on AP with inattentive drivers, which rammed into the back of a fire truck. But in the past few updates I've noticed that on the interstate, the car _does _move over to the far side of the lane for vehicles stopped on the shoulder. So... it's seeing them.
> 
> This week I've been driving a rented Volvo V90 with Pilot Assist. Functionality is similar... both systems will steer and come to a complete stop in traffic when needed. The major difference, though, is that the Tesla uses camera neural networks to identify other vehicles, whether they're stopped or not. The Volvo will decelerate behind a slow moving car. But if the Volvo comes upon a car in its lane that is already stopped, it will simply slam into the back of it. It would be easy to think that this is the classic radar problem (difficult to distinguish stationary objects). But I'm pretty sure Volvo has cameras for lane detection and centering. They're just not using them like Tesla is. Volvo is also unwilling to allow much steering authority while lane keeping. Slight bends exceed its capacity.
> 
> Tesla AP is the best system on the market. It's not perfect, but it* is *improving.


Are you saying that the Volvo's lane keep function only works on straightaways? I have a neighbor with a Volvo who poo-poos my M3's autopilot functions claiming the Volvo does the same things.


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## melmartin

Have a couple of little gripes with latest update. Nav voice sometimes isn't left in the state it was when I shut down the car. I have have the voice on low. About half the time when I get in again, it's set to mute. 

Same with message sync. Usually I get text messages. however, all too often, I hear them on my phone, but not the car. The Tesla software turns off the message sync button, and I have to turn it on again. 

Holdover bugs that have been here forever:
Audio does not diminish when navigation voice is speaking.
Can't call someone by saying "call John Smith at home." Have to tap the home or cell button. It's distracting, and dangerous. All these new voice commands and this issue has been here forever it seems. The better voice commands (when they work) were the perfect time to fix this.


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## Klaus-rf

MelindaV said:


> And it never shows the left (part time HOV) as an option. It can be 10pm on a Saturday and it still shows on the screen as a 2 lane freeway. I assumed tesla did not recognize the HOV scheduling, but your part time HOV does?


 Around here there are some roads that have a lower speed limit at "Night" than daytime. My M3 always sees only the day speed limit. Time of day / lights on/off don't seem to matter.


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## MelindaV

Klaus-rf said:


> Around here there are some roads that have a lower speed limit at "Night" than daytime. My M3 always sees only the day speed limit. Time of day / lights on/off don't seem to matter.


we are going to more and more variable rate speed limits on freeways here, so it'd be nice if the cameras picked up the speed instead of just depending on the map data.


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## ibgeek

MelindaV said:


> we are going to more and more variable rate speed limits on freeways here, so it'd be nice if the cameras picked up the speed instead of just depending on the map data.


Those with HW3 will see this soon. We have stop signs, stop lights cones and some types of railroad signs, all signs will be read by camera as part of full self driving. Speed limit signs should be in the next batch that are added.


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## bwilson4web

I've been trying to quantify the 'ping-pong' and have a: http://www.gcdataconcepts.com/ham.html








Mine is the HAM-IMU:

General Features
Compact size (2.21"L 1.55"W 0.60"H, 0.9oz)
User selectable sample rates
Accurate time stamped data using Real Time Clock (RTC)
Data recorded to internal 8GB flash memory
Easily readable comma separated text data files
Internal hardwired rechargeable Lithium-Polymer battery, charges via USB
Data transfer compatible with Windows/Linux/Mac via USB interface (no special software required)
Three product variants: HAM-x16, HAM-IMU, HAM-IMU+Alt

HAM-x16 Feature
3-axis 16g digital accelerometer sensor
User selectable sample rates of 12, 25, 50, 100, 200, and 400 Hz
16-bit resolution
Finite Impulse Response Filter to improve data quality

HAM-IMU
3-axis accelerometer, gyroscope, magnetometer
User selectable sample rates of 50, 100, and 200 Hz
Quaternion orientation solutions based on accelerometer and gyroscope data

I started it up in the car and took a 10 minute drive. The following reports show the angular change of the vertical, Z-axis. If anyone wants a copy of the data, let me know and I'll make it available. But this is what I see:








There is a periodic 'rocking' motion seen: 70-80 sec; 130-180 sec, and; 220-250 sec. A slow period, I liken it to rocking a baby to sleep.









Increasing the time resolution, the data suggest at least two frequencies that periodically achieve a beat resonance, the rocking motion. When out of phase, it looks like noise but seconds 70-82, they combine to give a rocking motion. So it comes and goes.









Further increases in resolution again suggest there are at least two frequencies, possibly more. The sampling rate was 50 Hz.









The 50 Hz sampling rate, ~0.020 sec per sample, is starting the reach the Nyquist limit. There are ~10 samples per time interval.

The car will have a natural resonance defined by the tire spring constant and mass. Wheel alignment can also induce strange behavior. Furthermore, there will also be feedback from the auto steering loop. Explaining the physics helps explain the practical steps to change the oscillations:

Find a benchmark road segment that reliably exhibits 'ping-pong' - this allows seeing if anything changes the behavior.
Scan tire pressure effects: (1) set tires to maximum sidewall pressure; (2) run benchmark and record effect, and; (3) reduce tire pressure 5 psi. Repeat until lowest, safe pressure reached (door jam -5 psi).
A second approach is to change the front and rear tire pressures so the spring effect is offset from the center of gravity:

Repeat on the benchmark segment with recorded observations.
Set all four tires to maximum sidewall.
Reduce the rear tires by a series of 5 psi and repeat the benchmarks.
Set all four tires to the maximum sidewall.
Reduce the front tires by a series of 5 psi and repeat the benchmarks.
I'm not affected by the rocking motion but understand some people are more sensitive to motion sickness. For them, they'll be on the edge of 'sea sick.' They may want to examine more invasive techniques like tuning the wheel alignment, camber and toe, and suspension (See Mountain Pass Performance) at the risk of more tire wear.

The next step would be to do a Fourier analysis to find the frequencies involved. Then identify the sources and tweak the ones that can be modified. But did I mention the rocking motion agrees with me?

Bob Wilson

ps. My curiosity was raised when playing back at 2x speed, Bjørn Nyland's YouTube "Model 3 Standard Range Plus 1000 km challenge", I noticed the lane lines at the bottom of the frame showed a slow oscillation that appeared to have short periods of low and then higher amplitude. It was seeing this pattern that clued me to investigate what is going on.


----------



## MelindaV

ibgeek said:


> Those with HW3 will see this soon. We have stop signs, stop lights cones and some types of railroad signs, all signs will be read by camera as part of full self driving. Speed limit signs should be in the next batch that are added.


do you have a link or other evidence of this, or speculating?


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## potatoee

MelindaV said:


> do you have a link or other evidence of this, or speculating?


I have seen no evidence of stop signs, lights, cones, etc. on the display. The only evidence I have seen is that one time I was deliberately timing the light (i.e. cruising up to a red light in anticipation of the light changing). I misjudged it by about a second or two. Just before I was about to put the brake on, I did get an AP warning to take control immediately. The car did not brake until I hit the pedal. I haven't tried to recreate the test.


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## SR22pilot

potatoee said:


> I have seen no evidence of stop signs, lights, cones, etc. on the display. The only evidence I have seen is that one time I was deliberately timing the light (i.e. cruising up to a red light in anticipation of the light changing). I misjudged it by about a second or two. Just before I was about to put the brake on, I did get an AP warning to take control immediately. The car did not brake until I hit the pedal. I haven't tried to recreate the test.


Unless you have HW3 you won't.


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## potatoee

SR22pilot said:


> Unless you have HW3 you won't.


Is this the first case where we saw a feature dependency on HW3? To the best of my knowledge HW3 and HW2.5 differ only by compute performance and that there are no features that yet *require* HW3. Again, has anyone *seen* evidence on the display in the distributed release?


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## Greg Smith

I have HW 2.5 in a M3. My wife has HW3 in a MS. We both have the latest software. Her display shows cones, stop signs and signal lights (including the current color). Definitely a difference between HW 2.5 and HW3. BTW, the M3 has purchased the FSD and the MS not.


----------



## potatoee

Greg Smith said:


> I have HW 2.5 in a M3. My wife has HW3 in a MS. We both have the latest software. Her display shows cones, stop signs and signal lights (including the current color). Definitely a difference between HW 2.5 and HW3. BTW, the M3 has purchased the FSD and the MS not.


This is awesome! I can't wait until I get my upgrade.


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## ibgeek

MelindaV said:


> do you have a link or other evidence of this, or speculating?


I get some info but I can't go in to the hows or whys. I know that's frustrating but I have no say in the matter.


----------



## StromTrooperM3

MelindaV said:


> we are going to more and more variable rate speed limits on freeways here


Something I never really paid attention to until tonight.

I drove through 3 school zones today on the way to a client.

55mph posted but 45mph school zone 8am until 6pm...I think the text on the sign would be too difficult for the car to read but hey maybe not?

Just something I never saw mentioned before..


----------



## MelindaV

StromTrooperM3 said:


> Something I never really paid attention to until tonight.
> 
> I drove through 3 school zones today on the way to a client.
> 
> 55mph posted but 45mph school zone 8am until 6pm...I think the text on the sign would be too difficult for the car to read but hey maybe not?
> 
> Just something I never saw mentioned before..


I remember a school zone conversation from some time ago, but yeah, it is another good example of the posted speed changing at specific times.


----------



## Apl199

garsh said:


> Several people report steering oscillations in Autopilot and Navigate on Autopilot with this series of releases. Others report having no such issues.


I'm one of them - car now either hugs the left hand side of the lane even driving by braille or floats around the lane as if I'm drunk


----------



## DocScott

On the basis of an experience of a friend who lives near me, I finally upgraded to 40.50.7. I haven't driven far on this upgrade, so I haven't really gotten a chance to study whether, when, and how much it's ping-ponging.

Voice commands are absolutely worth it, but something like 20% of the time it doesn't record anything when I speak and I have to try again.

"Listen to CNN" does indeed plot navigation to Atlanta.


----------



## Rj8731

StromTrooperM3 said:


> Something I never really paid attention to until tonight.
> 
> I drove through 3 school zones today on the way to a client.
> 
> 55mph posted but 45mph school zone 8am until 6pm...I think the text on the sign would be too difficult for the car to read but hey maybe not?
> 
> Just something I never saw mentioned before..


I have noticed that my M3 does not detect school zone signs. My Volvo XC90 does and displays them on the dash screen. Hopefully, a quick fix by the programmers at Tesla.


----------



## sduck

The model 3 has never used cameras for detecting speed limits. It's all based on what's programmed into the maps currently. And, it's not a quick, trivial fix to change this, but hopefully once more cars are on HW3 it can be implemented, eventually.


----------



## slotti

Love the text message support, but my car randomly announces new messages and pulls up random old messages, some over a year old.


----------



## Mike

For the third time in about nine weeks, I had to delete and then re-install my garage door in my Homelink settings.

For whatever reason, since V10 came along, my Homelink will all of a sudden not auto-close the garage door upon departure.

It will not even send the signal to attempt to close the door when I leave home...even after a twin scroll reset and a full power down.

Once I (again) removed and re-installed the door into my Homelink, it works in accordance with manufactures specifications.

Other random bugs I am noticing:

even on clear, sunny days my headlamps are randomly turning on (it also randomly happens on overcast but bright days),
I (still) can't send a voice "bug report" as the car (still) tells me it cannot understand that command...so I use the "press and hold the car icon for a two second period" trick to send a generic time hack style of bug report, and
I (still) cannot send a voice to text reply...the system types out what I am saying but it does nothing when I tap to send.
Spotify still crashes on a regular basis.


----------



## dburkland

Update regarding voice command support: It has been rock solid the last few days with maybe 1-2 timeouts (out of 40+ tries).


----------



## Klaus-rf

sduck said:


> The model 3 has never used cameras for detecting speed limits. It's all based on what's programmed into the maps currently. And, it's not a quick, trivial fix to change this, but hopefully once more cars are on HW3 it can be implemented, eventually.


 While reading speed limit signs has been in the MS for a long time. I read it in the owners manual a couple years back. So it shouldn't be too difficult since the code already exists.


----------



## iChris93

Klaus-rf said:


> While reading speed limit signs has been in the MS for a long time. I read it in the owners manual a couple years back. So it shouldn't be too difficult since the code already exists.


It's not the Model S that has it. It is AP1. So I think there are also Model Xs that have it then. I'm sure that HW2+ is capable but there is some law stuff with Mobleye that prevents Tesla from doing the same with their hardware.


----------



## DocScott

I finally took a longer drive on this firmware version today.

I watched carefully for it, but experienced no ping-ponging whatsoever. It is true that AP tended to bias toward the outside of curves and then re-center when it exited the curve, but that's only a "ping"--it didn't overshoot, so no "pong."

Voice commands fail entirely maybe 15% of the time (not just not recognizing what I said, but not registering anything at all). For me, that's tolerable.

I'm not sure if this is just with voice commands or also happens when you use the touchscreen, but as some other people have reported bringing up the energy graph closes the odometer, which is super-dumb.


----------



## Mike

DocScott said:


> I finally took a longer drive on this firmware version today.
> 
> I watched carefully for it, but experienced no ping-ponging whatsoever. It is true that AP tended to bias toward the outside of curves and then re-center when it exited the curve, but that's only a "ping"--it didn't overshoot, so no "pong."
> 
> Voice commands fail entirely maybe 15% of the time (not just not recognizing what I said, but not registering anything at all). For me, that's tolerable.
> 
> I'm not sure if this is just with voice commands or also happens when you use the touchscreen, but as some other people have reported bringing up the energy graph closes the odometer, which is super-dumb.


My odometer gets closed anytime I use any voice command except "odometer".

My odometer also gets closed anytime I use the voice/phone call thing...

...and anytime I tap the wiper button on the stalk for a single swipe, the odometer gets closed.


----------



## evannole

I have found that any time I invoke any voice command (not just calling up the energy graph) when I have the odometer cards up, the odometer cards disappear and I am stuck with the nearly useless and now entirely redundant default card (rear camera, charging, voice commands and wipers "buttons"). I can now call all of those up with a voice command, which I can issue by pushing the button on the steering wheel, but even before that became possible, I almost never used any of the "buttons" on that card. But I do typically look at my current trip's card for duration and wH/mi every 10 minutes or so. So please, Tesla, allow me to keep that one as my default if I so choose! Sure, I can swipe back to it, but I shouldn't have to!


----------



## littlD

DocScott said:


> On the basis of an experience of a friend who lives near me, I finally upgraded to 40.50.7. I haven't driven far on this upgrade, so I haven't really gotten a chance to study whether, when, and how much it's ping-ponging.
> 
> Voice commands are absolutely worth it, but something like 20% of the time it doesn't record anything when I speak and I have to try again.
> 
> "Listen to CNN" does indeed plot navigation to Atlanta.


I'm adding this one under the "Not What I Said" category in the Voice Commands List!


----------



## StromTrooperM3

evannole said:


> and I am stuck with the nearly useless and now entirely redundant default card (rear camera, charging, voice commands and wipers "buttons")


Some of us still use/prefer the on screen buttons though. Camera button takes one second to tap vs actually saying it then waiting for it to process, then not work and have to start all over again 😂

Hitting the button on the wiper stalk is the only way I activate that card so I'm fine with both that and the voice command button being removed though

What does constantly seeing the whm do for you? And if you check duration every 10 minutes it seems you know how long your duration is already lol


----------



## bwilson4web

In the past, enabling 'Climate' typically runs about 40 minutes and stops. But I'm seeing:









19:30-20:00 - arrival home, commanded 'Charge'. Since setting a departure time, the car no longer, default starts charging.
20:00-20:40 - commanded first climate cycle
after 20:40 - climate cycles without being commanded
It is almost as if the car went in some sort of camper mode but I'm seeing a series of ~40 minute, climate cycles. The car ends one cycle which my EVSE interprets as end of charge cycle and then begins a new one.

Anyone else see this?

Each cycle costs ~$0.30 so the four, extra cycles costs ~$1.20.

Bob Wilson


----------



## evannole

StromTrooperM3 said:


> Some of us still use/prefer the on screen buttons though. Camera button takes one second to tap vs actually saying it then waiting for it to process, then not work and have to start all over again 😂
> 
> Hitting the button on the wiper stalk is the only way I activate that card so I'm fine with both that and the voice command button being removed though
> 
> What does constantly seeing the whm do for you? And if you check duration every 10 minutes it seems you know how long your duration is already lol


I never activate the camera while driving, so that's moot to me.

Like I said, I merely want the option to choose my own default card. If you like those on-screen buttons, then by all means, you should have the option to keep them.


----------



## StromTrooperM3

evannole said:


> I never activate the camera while driving, so that's moot to me.
> 
> Like I said, I merely want the option to choose my own default card. If you like those on-screen buttons, then by all means, you should have the option to keep them.


So far I think Dodge does it the best where you can drag and drop the icons you use the most to the "tray" I'd love to see that implemented in the future.

I don't use it while driving a lot but I find that when I'm in reverse I hit something and the camera screen closes. It should always be "on top" when in reverse. Check out the rear camera while driving on the highway it really helps with blindspots. I use it more than I thought


----------



## evannole

Yes, I do agree with that, though when I mistakenly close the camera while in reverse, I find that the easiest way to get it back is to quickly put the car in Park and then in Reverse again.

I have tried using the camera while moving forward but don't like all that motion on the screen and in my peripheral vision. With my mirrors adjusted properly, my blind spots are all but eliminated, and a quick shoulder check makes doubly sure.


----------



## airj1012

I feel like this is the longest time we've gone without a software update in a LONG time. It's almost eerie!


----------



## Mike

StromTrooperM3 said:


> Some of us still use/prefer the on screen buttons though. Camera button takes one second to tap vs actually saying it then waiting for it to process, then not work and have to start all over again 😂
> 
> Hitting the button on the wiper stalk is the only way I activate that card so I'm fine with both that and the voice command button being removed though
> 
> What does constantly seeing the whm do for you? And if you check duration every 10 minutes it seems you know how long your duration is already lol


I drive with the "today's trip" odometer up all the time.

Been doing that since driving hybrids in 2007.

I like keeping an eye on things...personal preference, makes my day...so I don't want it to disappear everytime I use a voice command or the wipers.


----------



## StromTrooperM3

Mike said:


> Been doing that since driving hybrids in 2007.


I guess in a hybrid it's a self justification of how good you're being to the environment. Now that you have Full EV you're good lol

5k miles rotate the tires. That's about all you need to really keep track of


----------



## evannole

StromTrooperM3 said:


> I guess in a hybrid it's a self justification of how good you're being to the environment. Now that you have Full EV you're good lol
> 
> 5k miles rotate the tires. That's about all you need to really keep track of


Nope, I still like to know how efficiently I am driving. I don't obsess about it, but it's useful information all the same. And I like to be able, at a glance, to see how long it's taking me to get to Publix from my house, or to confirm that, "Hey, is seems like this commute is going faster than usual."


----------



## garsh

evannole said:


> I still like to know how efficiently I am driving.


Me too.

Every once in a while, the Wh/mile will be way higher than I'm expecting, and that reminds me that I left the heat on high because my wife was with me last time I drove it.


----------



## StromTrooperM3

evannole said:


> I still like to know how efficiently I am driving


If I'm not over 450 I'm not driving hard enough. So I guess it goes both ways 😂


----------



## John

Not sure it's worth a thread, but twice now the volume scroller has stopped working.
Rebooting MCU no help.
Oddly, the thing that fixed it both times was a quick simultaneous click of both scrollers.


----------



## bwilson4web

My first cool weather, -40 F (~3 C), long distance drive over the same route confirmed the “split the difference” left and right lane markers is sensibly weighted. Last May in Mississippi, a few intersections would lead the car toward the far ditch/curb on the passenger side unless you snatched the wheel. This time, it seemed much improved giving greater weight to the driver side lane line.

I also verified there is no practical L2 ‘short cut’ versus a Supercharge triangle. We lost ~3-4 hours trying to cut through Cornith MS using an L2 charger instead a side excursion to the Tupelo MS Supercharger.

Last May, the direct Huntsville to Memphis segment was close but worked. In colder weather, take Superchargers every hop. They are over an order of magnitude faster especially with the new, 170 kW, peak charging charging rate.

Bob Wilson

ps. Last May, I visited Beau, my best (only?) friend in high school. He’d been diagnosed with brain cancer like the kind that took Senators Kennedy and McCain. After the initial treatments had subsided and in coordination, we visited in Spring of last year.

The cancer returned and after experimental treatments, they went to home hospice, I wrote a short eulogy and shared it with friends and family. Four weeks later, Beau went home to Jesus.

I’m here for a celebration of Beaus life, a party to enjoy what others and we knew of him. Hence the winter road trip on the same route as last Spring.


----------



## tencate

bwilson4web said:


> especially with the new, 170 kW, peak charging charging rate.


Just checking, I've only ever gotten about 140 kW peak from a standard supercharger, which gives me around 600 miles per charging hour at the low end of the batteries' SOC. Are there places where it's 170 kW (besides V3 chargers of course)? 
BTW, my condolences for losing your friend Beau. My first long road trip in Max was to Texas (in Winter) to attend a friend's funeral.


----------



## bwilson4web

I’ve seen the same 148 kW peak rate at a 150 kW charger. I understand the newest Nashville chargers are 250 kW but I’ll wait for my 1st year checkout. The charging socket has gotten ‘sticky’.

I am thinking about a small spray can of WD-40.

Bob Wilson


----------



## motocoder

SR22pilot said:


> Another "solution" is to open and close the trunk. That wakes the car up and it will then see the button on the charge handle being pressed.


The car hadn't gone to sleep yet. The mirrors weren't folded, and I had just a few seconds prior gotten out of the car after parking.


----------



## Ksb466

Is there a trick to keeping the auto highbeams setting on and saved in your profile settings?For me it only retains about a third of the time when I get in the car next. Seems random. Saving profile doesn’t seem to help. And I swear I’m not inadvertently turning it off on the stalk.


----------



## JWardell

I experienced a bug today when I pressed the button to read an incoming text message, and the voice read off navigation directions instead (which is turned off).


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## iChris93

JWardell said:


> I experienced a bug today when I pressed the button to read an incoming text message, and the voice read off navigation directions instead (which is turned off).


Happened to me today too.


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## MelindaV

please start an OT thread if you want to continue with the Volvo conversation. Its not really relevant to the SW release conversation here.


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## lance.bailey

sorry, just clarifying some erroneous information that didn't get flagged as being off topic. I'll be more careful. deleted post.


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## Long Ranger

lance.bailey said:


> sorry, just clarifying some erroneous information that didn't get flagged as being off topic. I'll be more careful. deleted post.


I thought it was an interesting post. I think it could have been moved to the Need Dumb Cruise Control thread as an example of how Volvo allows both ACC and dumb CC, highlighting the dangers of Volvo's implementation.


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## garsh

lance.bailey said:


> sorry, just clarifying some erroneous information that didn't get flagged as being off topic. I'll be more careful. deleted post.


We (the moderators) are trying to be a little more "choosy" about moving posts around, because some people get upset when that happens to their posts.

If you'd be happy with us moving some posts to a more relevant thread, please feel free to suggest that we do so. If we agree (and have time), we will be happy to do so.


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## Kizzy

garsh said:


> We (the moderators) are trying to be a little more "choosy" about moving posts around, because some people get upset when that happens to their posts.
> 
> If you'd be happy with us moving some posts to a more relevant thread, please feel free to suggest that we do so. If we agree (and have time), we will be happy to do so.


I appreciate this. Moving posts to existing threads (or is it thread merged?) seems to reset thread read states. With threads that have hundreds of posts, that can be a tad annoying (did I read this already?).


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## jybrick

Could anyone shed some light on this:
My 2019 FSD Model X is still on 2019.40.50.7. It is not giving me the option for a software update. Both the local SC and via the app, the reps have told me that that is the latest version for my vehicle. But why? They don't know. 

Now, just before the last update (early Dec) the car would not drive and they had it for a week to figure out the problem. They said there was a loose pin but I believe they tried several software changes in the process of narrowing it down.

Any insight on the lack of updates would be appreciated.


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## garsh

According to TeslaFi, 3.2% of vehicles are still on this version.
So you're in the minority, but you aren't alone.
https://teslafi.com/firmware/

Given that there are no additional features added by the 2020.4* releases (other than the rather minor "Additional Vehicle Information" display), I don't think it's worth worrying about at this point. Wait until the next major update to functionality becomes available.



jybrick said:


> Could anyone shed some light on this:
> My 2019 FSD Model X is still on 2019.40.50.7. It is not giving me the option for a software update. Both the local SC and via the app, the reps have told me that that is the latest version for my vehicle. But why? They don't know.
> 
> Now, just before the last update (early Dec) the car would not drive and they had it for a week to figure out the problem. They said there was a loose pin but I believe they tried several software changes in the process of narrowing it down.
> 
> Any insight on the lack of updates would be appreciated.


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