# Auto Pilot Question - Used Cars



## Chad Mast (Oct 30, 2017)

So I see a lot of information an pricing on auto pilot but I still have some questions. I am a bargain shopper and the model 3 is suppose to be for the masses. So my questions are If I buy the auto pilot upgrade the 5k(EAP) and the 3k(FSD) upgrades are those tied to the car? Can I upgrade to a new car and have those software upgrade moved to my new car? If someone else has paid for the software upgrade and then Sells their car to me do I get the software upgrade? or do I have to pay for it myself? Can I sell my license/upgrade on my car to someone else and remove it? Software can be bought and sold in most cases and as this is a software purchase and at considerable price, I should be able to use it like any other commodity. But these type of questions don't seem to have any answers that I can find Does anyone have Information on this?


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Chad Mast said:


> So I see a lot of information an pricing on auto pilot but I still have some questions. I am a bargain shopper and the model 3 is suppose to be for the masses.


Be careful with that sort of labeling. The model 3 is a more affordable car. But it's still an "entry-level luxury" sedan, not an econo-box.


> So my questions are If I buy the auto pilot upgrade the 5k(EAP) and the 3k(FSD) upgrades are those tied to the car?


Yes.


> Can I upgrade to a new car and have those software upgrade moved to my new car?


No, you would have to pay for those options on your new car.


> If someone else has paid for the software upgrade and then Sells their car to me do I get the software upgrade? or do I have to pay for it myself?


You get the upgrade.


> Can I sell my license/upgrade on my car to someone else and remove it?


Nope. Once bought, it cannot be "returned".


> Software can be bought and sold in most cases and as this is a software purchase and at considerable price, I should be able to use it like any other commodity.


You're better off thinking of this as an option for a car. It's not a "software purchase". Going further off-topic, software is usually "licensed" - I doubt that you've ever actually "bought" software at any point in your life. You've merely purchased a license to use software.


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## BigBri (Jul 16, 2016)

Worth noting that an unlocked AP car would be worth more then a non so you'd get some money back on it. I believe all CPOs that are capable of autopilot have it unlocked so there is less confusion and its less about what the previous owner did/didnt purchase.


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## Chad Mast (Oct 30, 2017)

garsh said:


> You're better off thinking of this as an option for a car. It's not a "software purchase". Going further off-topic, software is usually "licensed" - I doubt that you've ever actually "bought" software at any point in your life. You've merely purchased a license to use software.


This is semantics, I go buy windows operating system CD I get a license I can sell this to another individual. I go buy a xbox video game, I can turn around and sell it.

I trust Tesla to be truthful, but if if someone turns in their car to get a newer one. How can I be sure that they are being truthful about it having or not having these upgrades. Seems they could set the car back to a default settings and make me pay for a license all over again, even though the previous owner of the car paid for it. If I don't have something physical at purchase then the company could resell those licenses to each new owner of a used vehicle and there is no way for the new owner to know.

Software upgrade in a car with the requirement of payments for this software seems to me to lead to alot of potential fraud on the companies part. What is to stop them from saying you bought a new piece of hardware not the software license we sold to the previous owner. That license is not transferable. It seems to set a precedence for other auto builders.


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## BigBri (Jul 16, 2016)

Chad Mast said:


> This is semantics, I go buy windows operating system CD I get a license I can sell this to another individual. I go buy a xbox video game, I can turn around and sell it.
> 
> I trust Tesla to be truthful, but if if someone turns in their car to get a newer one. How can I be sure that they are being truthful about it having or not having these upgrades. Seems they could set the car back to a default settings and make me pay for a license all over again, even though the previous owner of the car paid for it. If I don't have something physical at purchase then the company could resell those licenses to each new owner of a used vehicle and there is no way for the new owner to know.
> 
> Software upgrade in a car with the requirement of payments for this software seems to me to lead to alot of potential fraud on the companies part. What is to stop them from saying you bought a new piece of hardware not the software license we sold to the previous owner. That license is not transferable. It seems to set a precedence for other auto builders.


All CPOs have autopilot unlocked. Problem solved. Question is would you get more money on your trade to Tesla. Probably not. Just be better off selling privately.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

BigBri said:


> All CPOs have autopilot unlocked. Problem solved.


Not every used Tesla is a CPO. @Chad Mast has a point - is there some sort of official documentation trail of a car having Autopilot and FSD? If you order it that way, then the Monroney sticker has it. But if the car is upgraded later, then I guess you'd have to obtain a receipt from the original owner?


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

BigBri said:


> Worth noting that an unlocked AP car would be worth more then a non so you'd get some money back on it. I believe all CPOs that are capable of autopilot have it unlocked so there is less confusion and its less about what the previous owner did/didnt purchase.


Yes, I would agree it's worth more in theory; but in reality it's only worth more if your buyer wants EAP/FSD and places value on it. If FSD never happens (extreme case) then there won't be much return on that $3k upgrade


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## Chad Mast (Oct 30, 2017)

I know this is an old post but seems like my worries about this were right on. I am not sure but I have been seeing things online that indicate they resell their cars that had full self-driving they are removing this and selling it again to the next person. So does anyone know if you buy the full-self-driving package and you move from one vehicle to another does that package you bought move with your tesla account? If you have to pay for it again that seems a little dishonest?


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

Chad Mast said:


> So does anyone know if you buy the full-self-driving package and you move from one vehicle to another does that package you bought move with your tesla account? If you have to pay for it again that seems a little dishonest?


No, it's purchased for that VIN. Nothing seems dishonest to me. If Tesla purchased the car back from you, they can do what ever they want with it. If you sell it privately, FSD stays with it.


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## Chad Mast (Oct 30, 2017)

If you were to go along with that same line of thought then when I purchase it I should be able to do anything I want with it, such as pull the license off and sell it to someone else. But I am not allowed to do that, it seems like a double standard. If they can do it, it obviously can be done. If I paid for it, I should be able to sell it, but since I can't then it should stay with the car and the next person to purchase it should get it. You can't say its ok for them to do it but then say its not allowed for the customer to do it when they paid for it. That may not be dishonest but it's not right.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Chad Mast said:


> If I paid for it, I should be able to sell it


You absolutely *can* sell it. You can sell the car with that feature, and the person who buys the car gets it with that feature.

It's just that if you sell the car to Tesla (when you trade it in for a new one), then they're allowed to change the car before they resell it.


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## Chad Mast (Oct 30, 2017)

That is true I could sell the feature with the car, but what is to stop Tesla from saying sorry you did not buy the license if you want full self-driving with the Car you will need to pay us for it. There is nothing to stop them and the fact that they remove it when they buy the car back its just the first step to doing it any time anyone resells the Car. If consumers accept this, then they will be able to get away with it. I think if you are going to pay for software to upgrade your car, then you should have control over that software. If they want to maintain control over the software then they should sell it as a monthly service. Then I can stop paying for it anytime I want. The consumer has control over what they pay for. But they are charging you a large lump sum to buy it. Not rent it. If I buy hardware(car/computer) and I but software for it(windows OS/full self-driving) I should be able to move it from one piece of hardware to another, ( computer/car). But this is not possible. Sounds like there needs to be more regulation around what they can do with that software.


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

Chad Mast said:


> The consumer has control over what they pay for. But they are charging you a large lump sum to buy it. Not rent it.


 You are granted a *license* to use the software, YOU DO NOT OWN IT.
Depending on the original license, you might be able to resell your license.



> If I buy hardware(car/computer) and I but software for it(windows OS/full self-driving) I should be able to move it from one piece of hardware to another, ( computer/car). But this is not possible. Sounds like there needs to be more regulation around what they can do with that software.


Sounds like you have never read a M$ license agreement. It is SPECIFICALLY for ONE computer and cannot [except in some volume license agreements] be moved to any other computer, cannot be installed on more than one computer (or however many nodes it is licensed for), cannot be resold after installation EXCEPT it can be *transferred* with the whole computer it is licensed for, etc. You cannot re-sell software that you do not own. See above - you only have a license to USE the software. You do not own it.

Some software is limited by the number of installations allowed. So it can only be installed on one box (or car?) without purchasing another license..

As a general rule, software is not regulated. At all. It's strictly "if you don't like the license, don't use the software". And 99.999% of all software has absolutely no warranty.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Chad Mast said:


> what is to stop Tesla from saying sorry you did not buy the license if you want full self-driving with the Car you will need to pay us for it.


The fact that everybody in the world would find this to be unfair, and then people wouldn't buy Autopilot because the resale value of the feature would fall to $0.



Chad Mast said:


> If consumers accept this, then they will be able to get away with it.


They wouldn't accept it.
I know I wouldn't. Would you?


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

Chad Mast said:


> I have been seeing things online that indicate they resell their cars that had full self-driving they are removing this and selling it again to the next person.


Have you looked at the used inventory at Tesla.com? Most of the cars have full self driving on them. It appears to me Tesla might be adding it to cars that didn't previously have it, not removing it. Or else there has been a really high purchase rate for FSD. I do agree, though, that once Tesla owns it again they could choose to wipe it if they want. Yet I see no evidence of Tesla trying to double dip by selling FSD multiple times for the same car.


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