# Ford deals with broken, 3d party charging



## bwilson4web (Mar 4, 2019)

Ford discovered a problem with a 3d party, fast DC charger:
Source: 




Ford did a clever image source using Plugshare images to identify the failing chargers and remove them from their EV map. But this is just the tip of the problem. If a VW EV can not charge at a VW charging network, the problem is worse than generally acknowledged.

There is a simple but expensive solution, have each Ford dealer install a 24x7 available, fast DC charger. Recommend they be co-located with the service center or at least at the edge of the property BUT not where dealer inventory can be parked. Expensive, yes, but Tesla did this and more and easily handles charging Tesla EVs.

Bob Wilson


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

Probably the easiest way out of that hole for Ford is by partnering with growing large gas stations or convenience stores like 7-11, Wawa, Racetrac, etc, to get them to add Ford compatible charging.


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## bwilson4web (Mar 4, 2019)

JasonF said:


> Probably the easiest way out of that hole for Ford is by partnering with growing large gas stations or convenience stores like 7-11, Wawa, Racetrac, etc, to get them to add Ford compatible charging.


Hummmm, either one 24x7 at a dealership or three 24x7 at local 'stop and robs.'

Bob Wilson


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## TomT (Apr 1, 2019)

bwilson4web said:


> There is a simple but expensive solution, have each Ford dealer install a 24x7 available, fast DC charger


Nissan did the same thing with their Chademo fast chargers in the early 2010s...


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

bwilson4web said:


> ...have each Ford dealer install a 24x7 available, fast DC charger.





TomT said:


> Nissan did the same thing with their Chademo fast chargers in the early 2010s...


Yeah, and it worked terribly.

Firstly, because car dealerships are generally not located conveniently close to interstates and other highways used for long-distance travel.

Secondly, because car manufacturers have very little control over dealerships. They couldn't just mandate it - they would have to incentivize the dealerships to do so. Many dealerships block off their lots on Sundays, which is very inconvenient for charging.


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## Ed Woodrick (May 26, 2018)

bwilson4web said:


> Ford discovered a problem with a 3d party, fast DC charger:
> Source:
> 
> 
> ...


Nissan tends to do this, it generally isn't a great solution.
The dealer often has it in use charging a car (and not moving when full). They are often behind closed gates after hours. 
And then they tend to stay too busy, except for when they are often broken.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Tesla already has the formula for what works, it’s just that no one cares to spend the money to do so because they’re sill loyal to the ICE business.

Something like Electrify America was supposed to be the answer, but really how will it when it’s the result of a punishment against VW.


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## Maxpilot (Oct 7, 2020)

shareef777 said:


> Tesla already has the formula for what works, it's just that no one cares to spend the money to do so because they're sill loyal to the ICE business.
> 
> Something like Electrify America was supposed to be the answer, but really how will it when it's the result of a punishment against VW.


I think legacy auto is waiting for the government to build out the charging infrastructure so they won't have to spend anything on it.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Maxpilot said:


> I think legacy auto is waiting for the government to build out the charging infrastructure so they won't have to spend anything on it.


Legacy auto still doesn't care. The sales of EVs compared to ICE is still vastly inconsequential. Ideally, Electrify America (largest non-Tesla charging network I'm aware of) needs to get spun off or bought out by an owner group that cares. From there they can charge significantly higher prices then the Tesla charging network. Even as high as gas equivalent as their purpose should be solely for long distance travel.

Which brings up something more important than the legal automakers.... everywhere else! Primarily condo/apartment/work/office/shopping/food locations all need to get on-board with planning for EV stations. Once charging is available at those locations (where our vehicles sit idle a majority of the time) we'd be good to go.

Personally, I've leveraged Tesla's charging network twice in 2.5 years. So even if both times were a disaster, I don't imagine it'd sway my EV decision. On the other hand, I have a co-worker who lives in a condo without EV charging. He constantly harps about the conflict of ensuring he's got an adequate charge. He also lives in the city, so the EA or Tesla network that's pretty far from him is very inconvenient. So many businesses (and associated parking spots), yet zero charging locations.


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

Maxpilot said:


> I think legacy auto is waiting for the government to build out the charging infrastructure so they won't have to spend anything on it.


You're partially right. Legacy auto might be _encouraged_ to produce more EV's if the government (or outside private companies) build the charging infrastructure _for them. _Unfortunately, overall they're still basically treating EV's like a merging of compliance cars and fashion.

That's why General Motors gave themselves until 2025 to _start_ their conversion to EV's - they still believe that by then, the fashion trend will have dissolved, and they can just introduce one more EV model, call the trend a bust, and happily go back to making gas vehicles.

And it's not just Legacy U.S. Auto - Toyota, Honda, and Mitsubishi are probably worse. Aside from one compliance car each, they're only going as far as hybrids, and are also waiting for the "EV Trend" to fade so they can go back to business as usual.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

JasonF said:


> You're partially right. Legacy auto might be _encouraged_ to produce more EV's if the government (or outside private companies) build the charging infrastructure _for them. _Unfortunately, overall they're still basically treating EV's like a merging of compliance cars and fashion.
> 
> That's why General Motors gave themselves until 2025 to _start_ their conversion to EV's - they still believe that by then, the fashion trend will have dissolved, and they can just introduce one more EV model, call the trend a bust, and happily go back to making gas vehicles.
> 
> And it's not just Legacy U.S. Auto - Toyota, Honda, and Mitsubishi are probably worse. Aside from one compliance car each, they're only going as far as hybrids, and are also waiting for the "EV Trend" to fade so they can go back to business as usual.


This! In a world with constant discussions about climate change and the need to move towards renewable energy, it's appalling that the "newer" auto makers (like Toyota/Honda) are doing as close to zero as they can in regards to getting away from ICE vehicles. What's worse is that their hybrid solutions seem to pale in comparison to their older vehicles. I remember when the Honda Civic from the 90s used to get 40+ mpg. Now you have to get a high end/trim model plus another few thousand added for the hybrid model just to get the same mileage.


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> This! In a world with constant discussions about climate change and the need to move towards renewable energy, it's appalling that the "newer" auto makers (like Toyota/Honda) are doing as close to zero as they can in regards to getting away from ICE vehicles.


And this is what makes Tesla a threat - because they are the symbol of mainstream EV's being possible. If Legacy Auto can do anything at all to block or destroy Tesla, to prove it as a fashion trend that collapsed with time, it saves and justifies their business model more quickly.


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## lance.bailey (Apr 1, 2019)

It is interesting how in Canada fast charging across the country via existing Petro-Can gas stations and in BC via BCHydro have built up a network of CCS and CHAdemo fast charging alongside of the existing and growing Tesla fast charge network.


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## webe3owners (Nov 18, 2018)

lance.bailey said:


> It is interesting how in Canada fast charging across the country via existing Petro-Can gas stations and in BC via BCHydro have built up a network of CCS and CHAdemo fast charging alongside of the existing and growing Tesla fast charge network.


FLO is literally contracting Tesla to install their hardware now. The Vernon Supercharger has 12 V3 Superchargers and 4 FLO Chademo/CCS stations.


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## StevieC (Jun 1, 2021)

“Secondly, because car manufacturers have very little control over dealerships. They couldn't just mandate it - they would have to incentivize the dealerships to do so. Many dealerships block off their lots on Sundays, which is very inconvenient for charging.”

The problem isn’t so much with the manufacturers, other than the Japanese ones, but with the franchise dealer model. Most don’t give a damn about cars that might currently be 1-2% of their sales, with virtually no service stream of income. 

One of Tesla’s strongest points is no dealerships, and their shady way of doing business. Like Elon said about the prospect of adding the refreshed S’s 12v lithium battery to 3/Y, they’re not looking at service to be a profit center, “The best service is NO service!”


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## bwilson4web (Mar 4, 2019)

Offer a reasonable compensation and see who wants to be in business five years from now. Announce decreasing support every year and let the dealers decide.

As Deming said, ‘Survival is not guaranteed.’

Bob Wilson


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