# Question: Wife HATES "regenerative braking" feature on Model S Test Drive...



## Brett S.

Greetings! This is my first post and i'm quite new to the community. I do have a model 3 reservation and am located in Seattle, WA, not a Tesla employee, and have never owned a Tesla prior. I did reserve on April 1 therefore I have a chance to get a Model 3 as early as January! I am very excited!

I wasn't quite sure where to post this question so if i'm in the wrong forum, please let me know.

My wife had the opportunity today to drive a Model S and she texted me after: "Hate the way it drives. It autobrakes anytime you take foot off the gas which is suuuuppppper annoying..."

What she was actually experiencing, thanks for the clarification was, "regenerative braking."

This text broke my heart!

We are new to the Tesla community and I was aware of this, but has anyone else had this reaction to driving a Tesla the first time? Will the Model 3 drive similar? Do you get used to it? How can I keep her excited for our Model 3!!

Thank you in advance, I appreciate any comments and feedback. 

PS - I'm not going to get a new wife


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## skygraff

She was experiencing regenerative braking which is actually a great feature of electric vehicles and is very well done in Teslas. It allows for almost one-pedal driving (down to about 5mph) and doesn't take long to not only get used to but to love.

Model S & X (one presumes 3 as well) have a setting option called "creep mode" to mimic typical automatic transmission style ICE idle movement if she doesn't like regenerative braking but she should take a little time to get used to the single pedal driving. Many say it is less fatiguing and very intuitive. Basically, you gently reduce pressure (like a treadle pedal) which gives you minute control over motor/wheel speed.

Auto braking is a completely different feature.


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## Brett S.

Thank you so much for the reply and correction on what she was actually experiencing. I can see how it is beneficial and makes more sense. I know have some talking points for when she gets home from work after her lunchtime test drive. That is very interesting about "creep mode" too.

Thank you!


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## SSonnentag

Having driven hybrids and Volts for several years, I agree with your wife. I think the regeneration at light throttle (no brake pedal) should be an option, not mandatory. It's fun around town and is nice in stop-and-go traffic, but it gets fatiguing holding your foot so lightly on the throttle in an attempt to maintain speed, not reduce speed. I would like the option to turn regeneration off so that I could truly coast (maximum efficiency) when I completely let off the throttle. Then if I want to slow down I could use the brake to manually engage regeneration.

PS I know EV's don't truly have throttles, but it's entrenched in my brain.


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## OneSixtyToOne

Regenerative braking also saves wear on the brake pads. Be prepared for spending a lot less in regular maintenance.


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## garsh

SSonnentag said:


> Then if I want to slow down I could use the brake to manually engage regeneration.


FYI:
Unlike some other EVs, the brake pedal on a Tesla only ever engages the mechanical brake. It does not add more regen.


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## Rich M

garsh said:


> ...the brake pedal on a Tesla only ever engages the mechanical brake. It does not add more regen.


This is great info. So taking your foot completely off the throttle gets you 100% available regen in any given situation? But this raises more questions for me, speaking for the RWD Teslas:

If I spend most of the time driving non-aggressively and only use the brake pedal from 5-0 MPH, this means the rear wheels+tires are doing the majority of the braking while the fronts spin freely offering no resistance, akin to stopping a regular car with the parking/hand brake. With weight shifting forward under deceleration+regen this means the rear wheels unload as they do most of the braking. Wouldn't this accelerate rear tire wear?
In slippery conditions (gravel, snow) I assume the ABS system detects any rear wheel slippage on trailing throttle and immediately kills regen to keep the rear end in line?


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## garsh

Rich M said:


> So taking your foot completely off the throttle gets you 100% available regen in any given situation?


No. All I'm saying is that the brake pedal doesn't control regen - it only controls the friction brakes.
Regen in a Tesla is somewhat configurable from the main display, but I'm not familiar with all of the possibilities. I know there's some control over the maximum regen it will exert when you lift off the accelerator.


> If I spend most of the time driving non-aggressively and only use the brake pedal from 5-0 MPH, this means the rear wheels+tires are doing the majority of the braking while the fronts spin freely offering no resistance, akin to stopping a regular car with the parking/hand brake. With weight shifting forward under deceleration+regen this means the rear wheels unload as they do most of the braking. Wouldn't this accelerate rear tire wear?


I would think so, but we'd probably be better off asking an owner of a non-dual-motor Model S. Be sure to rotate your tires if you'd like even tire wear!


> In slippery conditions (gravel, snow) I assume the ABS system detects any rear wheel slippage on trailing throttle and immediately kills regen to keep the rear end in line?


Again, someone who owns a rear-drive Model S could better answer that question.

Any volunteers?


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## Brokedoc

So this is my take on driving a Tesla and the regen.

My first test drive, My passengers and I felt like I were in a driver's ed class for me to learn how to drive a stick shift. Electric accelerates so much faster, the passengers would jerk back and lifting your foot off the accelerator to coast to a stop sign, the passengers would jerk forward and the car would stop 20 feet before the stop sign. It was embarrassing and annoying. 

That lasted 15 minutes until you figure that you don't need to step on the gas as hard to accelerate and you almost never lift your foot off the accelerator unless you want to come to a complete stop or if you need to stop faster than the regen braking will slow you.

Two settings can be adjusted to make the car drive more conventionally but they both decrease energy. 

As mentioned above, there is a CREEP feature where the motors pull a little as soon as the you lift the brakes a little. Based on my power usage meter, I see it uses a little power even before my foot is completely off the brake and before the car starts creeping.

The second feature is a selectable Brake Regen level. On the MX, you can choose LOW or STANDARD regen. Standard is likely what was on when your wife did the test drive. Low is similar to driving a regular ICE but doesn't recharge the battery as much when slowing down. I was told by the OA that some people choose to set Regen to Low when they have passengers so they don't get carsick but flip it back to standard when driving alone. Personally, I feel that after a few days, I mastered the accelerator to the point that my passengers can't tell the difference.

And yes, use of Regen SIGNIFICANTLY decreases wear on your brake system and most drivers can drive with minimal use of the brake pedal.


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## Topher

It might help to think of it in two concepts:

1) Regenerative braking: that is simply that when braking, the engine is driven by the wheels creating power which is stored in the battery (the reverse of regular driving).
2) One pedal driving: The accelerator pedal has a section of the pedal travel, where it is accelerating the car, and a section where it is actively slowing the car.

All electric cars have regenerative braking which they use to slow the car to the largest extent possible given the engineering. Most of them put a bit of that braking on the accelerator at various levels (Tesla has two settings for the max amount of braking). Some cars also have regen braking on the brake pedal itself (Tesla is not one of those).

Thank you kindly.


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## KennethK

Also there is a position on the accelerator pedal about half way down that is a " neutral" position that neither accelerates or decelerates the vehicle. You will learn it quickly and will become very natural. One pedal driving, the best thing ever!


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## SoFlaModel3

I wish I could help here, buy my dad immediately turned creep mode on


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## mig

Not sure if this is helpful, but I've driven both 2012 LEAF and 2015 i3. I found I *really* like single pedal driving in the i3, though it did take a little bit to get used to it. I would hate to be a creeper again.

The one thing that took longest to get used to was freeway driving. When you see brake lights ahead of you, the tendency is to lift your foot off the accelerator and prepare to brake. In the i3 this engages the brake immediately, so for the first couple weeks I must have looked like a pretty bad driver with one foot on accelerator and one on the brake! Now I am used to it and have really gotten to like it.


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## SunnyAZ

Brett, it takes getting used to. Maybe rent a Tesla for a day or two so you can both try driving for longer than a "test drive". And perhaps if your wife talks to other Tesla owners she'll get their perspective on how they got used to it.


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## orcinus

Rich M said:


> In slippery conditions (gravel, snow) I assume the ABS system detects any rear wheel slippage on trailing throttle and immediately kills regen to keep the rear end in line?


There was someone in here (not sure which thread) mentioning their Tesla (and someone else's Bolt) loses regen for a bit (half a second?) after going over a bump on the road. Since going over a bump is a condition similar to slippage (from ABS / traction control point of view), i'm guessing any detected slippage simply kills regen and gives ABS / traction control immediate priority.


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## garsh

orcinus said:


> There was someone in here (not sure which thread) mentioning their Tesla (and someone else's Bolt) loses regen for a bit (half a second?) after going over a bump on the road. Since going over a bump is a condition similar to slippage (from ABS / traction control point of view), i'm guessing any detected slippage simply kills regen and gives ABS / traction control immediate priority.


That would be nice if true.

My Leaf drops regen permanently once it hits a bump. You have to completely take your foot off the brake before regen will start working again. Quite annoying.


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## orcinus

garsh said:


> That would be nice if true.
> 
> My Leaf drops regen permanently once it hits a bump. You have to completely take your foot off the brake before regen will start working again. Quite annoying.


Interesting.
Wonder how that will work with the new "e-pedal" Leafs.


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## JWardell

Brett S. said:


> My wife had the opportunity today to drive a Model S and she texted me after: "Hate the way it drives. It autobrakes anytime you take foot off the gas which is suuuuppppper annoying..."


While I am a huge fan of the idea of regen, I recently test drove the S as well and had the exact same initial reaction.
It will come as a surprise to anyone.

The real problem is that Tesla's 15-minute test drives just aren't long enough. It takes a few days to get used to a significant change to driver input like this.
Thankfully, Tesla lets you select different levels of regen. (I hope these are automatically switch with driver profile?)
But don't be discouraged. You can turn it down for her, and I bet she will get used to it over time, and maybe even dislike driving anything without it after a while!

As a longtime fan of stick shift cars, I can't stand automatics that don't engine brake and creep when stopped. Of course it's nowhere near as extreme as Tesla regen but I know a few days in to driving my 3 I'm going to hate any other type of car transmission!


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## orcinus

Ugh. I never drove automatics for longer than a few minutes.
And they drove me nuts. I'm almost 100% stick shift.

The only EV i drove was a 911 electric conversion by RUF (eRUF), but that was on a race track. Curiously, i don't remember anything really confusing me with it - might be it didn't have regen at all. I do remember the brake pedal was SUPER touchy and would stop the car dead at the lightest touch. Maybe they had a mix of brakes + regen on the brake pedal.

In any case, looks like i'm going to need a period of adjustment...
And since i've mostly been walking and using public transport for the past few years (dis/advantages of remote working), i guess i should use my time till early 2019 to get to grips with driving EVs.

PS: I mean, i know the basics of what to expect, and how an EV should behave, but knowing it, and feeling it are two different things


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## Rich Nuth

You can set the regen to standard or low. Low feels more like an ICE when you take your foot off the pedal, but you lose almost all of the benefit of the regen. Creep mode is another setting to make the electric Tesla behave more like an ICE in that it will start to creep forward like an ICE that is idling in drive.

I have my X set to standard regen and creep off. It was real easy to get used to the regen, and I like not having to keep my foot on the brake pedal at a stop light (creep off enables the hold setting on the brakes to apply more readily under normal conditions).


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## BobLoblaw

SunnyAZ said:


> Brett, it takes getting used to. Maybe rent a Tesla for a day or two so you can both try driving for longer than a "test drive". And perhaps if your wife talks to other Tesla owners she'll get their perspective on how they got used to it.


This is great advice. We rented a Model S P85 for the day and found that it took a bit to get used to the regen braking. Once used to it, we both loved the way it slowed!


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## SSonnentag

garsh said:


> That would be nice if true.
> 
> My Leaf drops regen permanently once it hits a bump. You have to completely take your foot off the brake before regen will start working again. Quite annoying.


Yep, the Volt is the same.


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## SSonnentag

If creep mode is off, you're at a stop and the brakes are auto-applied, your foot is off the brake, and you get rearended . . . Does the brake stay applied? Obviously nobody wants to test this, but I'm curious as to whether the brake is lifted or kept applied.


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## mig

orcinus said:


> There was someone in here (not sure which thread) mentioning their Tesla (and someone else's Bolt) loses regen for a bit (half a second?) after going over a bump on the road. Since going over a bump is a condition similar to slippage (from ABS / traction control point of view), i'm guessing any detected slippage simply kills regen and gives ABS / traction control immediate priority.


This happens on the i3 as well, and never ceases to be quite a shock. It is as if you are descending a cliff on a rope, and suddenly someone decides to give you a bunch of slack (or sometimes cuts the rope)!


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## Phil Kulak

Lot's of people in here pretending like it's _you_ who doesn't like one-pedal driving. Guys, it's his _wife_. He's not gonna direct her here and say, "See, Honey. You're wrong. All these people on the internet say that one-pedal driving is great and you just need to accept that and do it until you like it."

Just turn off regen in her driver profile and resign yourself to slightly less efficiency and and slightly more brake pad wear when she's driving. That's my plan for the 3. I'd love an option to assign regen to the brake pedal, but it doesn't look like that's gonna happen.


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## viperd

Also, it's my understanding that regen is stronger in AWD Tessa's than RWD. If you get a RWD M3 it's should be a little better, in terms of feeling like you slammed on the breaks when letting your foot off the accelerator.


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## John Slaby

Also, remember that there is autopilot that will maintain appropriate speed when engaged without depressing the accelerator at all. I would expect this will be more and more the norm for many of the typical driving scenarios in a model 3, especially as it gets better.


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## Brokedoc

John Slaby said:


> Also, remember that there is autopilot that will maintain appropriate speed when engaged without depressing the accelerator at all. I would expect this will be more and more the norm for many of the typical driving scenarios in a model 3, especially as it gets better.


You're ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!! I was in stop and go traffic on the highway into work this AM thinking that this type of situation is perfect for autopilot. I wasn't as frustrated as I usually am in stop and go traffic and I didn't need to completely pay attention to every detail! The new update for AP2.0 was smooth and really shines in heavy highway traffic. Maybe I'll upload a dashcam vid later...


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## Brett S.

SunnyAZ said:


> Brett, it takes getting used to. Maybe rent a Tesla for a day or two so you can both try driving for longer than a "test drive". And perhaps if your wife talks to other Tesla owners she'll get their perspective on how they got used to it.


Ha, as dumb as it sounds we haven't thought of that. Looks like we have an excuse to always do a California Road Trip and rent a Tesla!


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## Brett S.

Rich Nuth said:


> You can set the regen to standard or low. Low feels more like an ICE when you take your foot off the pedal, but you lose almost all of the benefit of the regen. Creep mode is another setting to make the electric Tesla behave more like an ICE in that it will start to creep forward like an ICE that is idling in drive.
> 
> I have my X set to standard regen and creep off. It was real easy to get used to the regen, and I like not having to keep my foot on the brake pedal at a stop light (creep off enables the hold setting on the brakes to apply more readily under normal conditions).


Thanks for the comments. I have a simple question that i'm still struggling to understand as i'm new to this EV world and not a big motorhead.

What are the benefits of regen and why should one choose to leave it on? I know it has something to do with the battery, but not exactly sure yet!


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## SoFlaModel3

Brett S. said:


> Thanks for the comments. I have a simple question that i'm still struggling to understand as i'm new to this EV world and not a big motorhead.
> 
> What are the benefits of regen and why should one choose to leave it on? I know it has something to do with the battery, but not exactly sure yet!


I would say there are two major benefits. 

The car charges itself with the energy created thus extending range 
You save your brakes/brake pads there by extending their life


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## garsh

@Brett S.

"Regen" is short for regeneration. Basically, instead of using the batteries to power the electric motors, the system is run in reverse. The car's momentum turns the motor. When this happens, the motor becomes a generator, and creates electricity. This electricity is then used to charge up the battery.

Now, you don't get energy for free, so there must be an "equal and opposite" force when you're regenerating. The generator "fights back" against being turned. This causes the car to slow down. So the electricity isn't free, but this is great when we want to slow down anyhow. We actually generate some electricity when we want to slow down, so it's an added bonus.

And like @SoFlaModel3 said, this means you don't have to use your regular brakes. The brake pad on electric cars and hybrids tend to last a long, long time because of this. My Nissan Leaf has over 81,000 miles, and I'm still on my original brake pads.


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## Brokedoc

garsh said:


> @Brett S.
> 
> "Regen" is short for regeneration. Basically, instead of using the batteries to power the electric motors, the system is run in reverse. The car's momentum turns the motor. When this happens, the motor becomes a generator, and creates electricity. This electricity is then used to charge up the battery.
> 
> Now, you don't get energy for free, so there must be an "equal and opposite" force when you're regenerating. The generator "fights back" against being turned. This causes the car to slow down. So the electricity isn't free, but this is great when we want to slow down anyhow. We actually generate some electricity when we want to slow down, so it's an added bonus.
> 
> And like @SoFlaModel3 said, this means you don't have to use your regular brakes.  The brake pad on electric cars and hybrids tend to last a long, long time because of this. My Nissan Leaf has over 81,000 miles, and I'm still on my original brake pads.


Nice summary. To help understand exactly how much energy you are using and regenerating, the Tesla S/X has a dynamic gauge you can put on your dash screen. A gentle start from stop on flat ground may pull ~25kw. Normal acceleration from a light is about 50kw. Accelerating up a grade or a fast start can pull 100kw and accelerating quickly onto a highway from up a ramp can pull 150kw. I've pulled over 200kw in a MS P85D when I was testing the crazy acceleration. Tesla's regen on my MX75D seems to max out at about -50kw when foot is completely off the accelerator and slowing from highway speeds.


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## Brett S.

Wow thesse are great answers, thank you! I appreciate the replies.

One final question: How much more range does Re-Gen add to a Tesla Model S currently, and could we expect to happen on the Model 3? Example: If the marketed range on a Model 3 is 310 miles (which i assume is with ReGen on), if you turn Re-Gen off, would you expect the range to be X miles (lower then 310?) 

Are there examples we can use with current Model S and X owners?

Thanks!


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## Brokedoc

Brett S. said:


> Wow thesse are great answers, thank you! I appreciate the replies.
> 
> One final question: How much more range does Re-Gen add to a Tesla Model S currently, and could we expect to happen on the Model 3? Example: If the marketed range on a Model 3 is 310 miles (which i assume is with ReGen on), if you turn Re-Gen off, would you expect the range to be X miles (lower then 310?)
> 
> Are there examples we can use with current Model S and X owners?
> 
> Thanks!


Your question will vary depending on your style of driving and mix of highway/city. Regen gives a huge boost in range for city driving and minimal boost on the highway if you don't slow down a lot.

FWIW, I just tried to lower my regen setting from standard to low and removing my foot from the accelerator feels much more like a standard ICE. Interestingly, regen still was occurring but at a peak of about -25 instead of the usual -50ish.


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## garsh

Brett S. said:


> One final question: How much more range does Re-Gen add to a Tesla Model S currently, and could we expect to happen on the Model 3? Example: If the marketed range on a Model 3 is 310 miles (which i assume is with ReGen on), if you turn Re-Gen off, would you expect the range to be X miles (lower then 310?)


The EPA range estimates already take regen into account. Turning off regen altogether would result in these cars performing much more poorly on the EPA range tests.

I know Tesla allows you to configure the amount of regen to some degree. I do not know what setting they use for the EPA range tests.


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## Tuesday

My wife and I only drive with the one pedal regen in our Bolt. After the first drive or two it becomes so natural. When we drive our truck I always have to remember that I have to use the brakes as we are barreling down the hills. I live in some hills and I can make it to the freeway from my house without using any charge since the regen works so well on the hills.


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## SunnyAZ

Brett-
One opt
Toon is Turo to rent a Tesla. 
And come back to this thread to share what you and wife thought after the longer drive!


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## SunnyAZ

One option is Turo..... (edited because it posted weird!)


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## JBsC6

Tune the regenerative braking to low and the wife will find something else to complain about. You wife doesn't want to spend the money my friend.

Buy the tesla at your own risk..lol

Happy wife..happy life,,,

I'd sit her down and tell her that the regenerative braking can be turned down to drive like an ICE car...call up the tesla dealer and arrange another test drive for the two of you together. 

If your wife still finds things wrong with the car..cancel the order she doesn't want to have it...

If it's your car specifically and money isn't an issue..tell her to pound sand.


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## jtdiddy

I've never driven a tesla so sorry for my ignorant question but if ur on the freeway and someone brakes hard immediately in front of me, I'm supposed to take my foot off the accelerator instead of slamming on the brakes?


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## Model34mePlease

jtdiddy said:


> I've never driven a tesla so sorry for my ignorant question but if ur on the freeway and someone brakes hard immediately in front of me, I'm supposed to take my foot off the accelerator instead of slamming on the brakes?


By all means slam on the brake. That probably also means taking your foot off the accelerator, which will apply regenerative braking, but you need more braking that can only be supplied by the brake pedal.


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## SoFlaModel3

jtdiddy said:


> I've never driven a tesla so sorry for my ignorant question but if ur on the freeway and someone brakes hard immediately in front of me, I'm supposed to take my foot off the accelerator instead of slamming on the brakes?


Taking your foot off of the accelerator and not placing it on the brake is for gradually slowing down.

If you've ever driven a manual transmission vehicle it's a similar concept to downshifting and rowing through the gears to engine brake rather than using the brake pedal.

If you need to stop fast you're still going to be stepping on the brake pedal as hard as you need to.

The only difference is that it's not like an automatic ICE car where it continues to glide forward when you lift from the accelerator.


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## John Slaby

And don't forget, the car will come standard with automatic emergency braking, which will likely kick in before you can move your foot.


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## Brett S.

John Slaby said:


> And don't forget, the car will come standard with automatic emergency braking, which will likely kick in before you can move your foot.


Hey John, so this is truly standard, not part of the normal advanced/self driving features?! I dont plan on adding any of the self driving/autopilot on my initial order. I'm going to pay the $1000 upcharge in the future and add it at the Tesla shop.


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## garsh

John Slaby said:


> And don't forget, the car will come standard with automatic emergency braking, which will likely kick in before you can move your foot.





Brett S. said:


> Hey John, so this is truly standard, not part of the normal advanced/self driving features?!


That is correct.


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## SoFlaModel3

Brett S. said:


> Hey John, so this is truly standard, not part of the normal advanced/self driving features?! I dont plan on adding any of the self driving/autopilot on my initial order. I'm going to pay the $1000 upcharge in the future and add it at the Tesla shop.


Just to give you the visual proof to what @garsh confirmed above. Check it out for yourself right from the design studio (left hand side)!


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## gmxeon

garsh said:


> That would be nice if true.
> 
> My Leaf drops regen permanently once it hits a bump. You have to completely take your foot off the brake before regen will start working again. Quite annoying.


My 2014 LEAF does not have that problem, odd. There is a slight acceleration or deceleration when I go over a bump due to it affecting how far the pedal is depressed (significantly more noticeable in non-eco mode), but it has never actually stopped regeneration (I confirmed that by checking the "power" meter on the dash as well as the eco power distribution page in the center console when I first noticed the slight oddity when going over a bump).


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## garsh

gmxeon said:


> My 2014 LEAF does not have that problem, odd.


You probably just haven't hit a big pothole/bump while braking down a really steep hill. There are a couple roads in particular where this tends to be an issue for me.


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## KennethK

@TrevP you mentioned in today's video that the i3 has very strong Regen. Is it a lot greater than in an S? I particularly like strong Regen and the ability to quickly come to a stop or feather the Regen a bit when not so much is needed. I'll be testing an S out next week so I'll pay more attention to that aspect.


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## TrevP

Yeah, I feel it's stronger than the Model S. Don't forget the i3 is pretty light compared to the S so I'm sure that's accentuating the effect. At least on the S you can chose something lighter but you can't on the i3


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