# Lockout



## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

Hi Guys,

Today at the grocery store I met a women with a Tesla model 3 who was essentially locked out of the car. She left her phone and both key cards in the frunk. I helped her with a phone call and told her to get in touch with tesla roadside assistance. 

Just out of curiosity since the car has LTE they can remotely unlock the car for her correct? Just want to know this for my knowledge.


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

Yes, they can unlock it but they will not "remote start" the car. She should be fine as long as the car has LTE singnal.


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## telero (Aug 3, 2017)

webdriverguy00 said:


> they can remotely unlock the car for her correct?


Could you have let her login to her account on your phone app and then unlocked it?


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

telero said:


> Could you have let her login to her account on your phone app and then unlocked it?


Thats a great idea. Din't even think of that. See now i know


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

webdriverguy00 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Today at the grocery store I met a women with a Tesla model 3 who was essentially locked out of the car. She left her phone and both key cards in the frunk. I helped her with a phone call and told her to get in touch with tesla roadside assistance.
> 
> Just out of curiosity since the car has LTE they can remotely unlock the car for her correct? Just want to know this for my knowledge.


how did she lock the door in the first place, if the phone was still within the car? manually hit the lock icon on the screen?


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> how did she lock the door in the first place, if the phone was still within the car? manually hit the lock icon on the screen?


I have no Idea what she did. As I was pulling in I saw her trying to open doors of her car and it wont open. Then she told me that she left her phone and both key cards in the frunk.


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## John (Apr 16, 2016)

You also could have bought a 9V battery in the grocery store and opened her frunk for her.
Just saying.


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

John said:


> You also could have bought a 9V battery in the grocery store and opened her frunk for her.
> Just saying.


Now i know this as well just saw the video 




does this mean anyone can open your frunk? This cant be good


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

webdriverguy00 said:


> Now i know this as well just saw the video
> 
> 
> 
> does this mean anyone can open your frunk? This cant be good


I am sure Tesla has been notified on this, but I am going to send them a note as well.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

webdriverguy00 said:


> Now i know this as well just saw the video
> 
> 
> 
> does this mean anyone can open your frunk? This cant be good


originally (maybe it has changed, or just wasn't communicated correctly way back), this would only work if the 12v battery was dead.


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> originally (maybe it has changed, or just wasn't communicated correctly way back), this would only work if the 12v battery was dead.


I thought the same @MelindaV but as I was going through the comments on the video the guy who made it said the battery was still functional. Hope this is fixed in a software update. Also the video is 5 months old so it might be fixed already.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

MelindaV said:


> originally (maybe it has changed, or just wasn't communicated correctly way back), this would only work if the 12v battery was dead.


That's how it was documented to work.

However, when Tesla started delivering cars and somebody tested it, they found that it still worked even if the 12v was still functional. Which unfortunately means that the frunk is not secure storage.


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

garsh said:


> That's how it was documented to work.
> 
> However, when Tesla started delivering cars and somebody tested it, they found that it still worked even if the 12v was still functional. Which unfortunately means that the frunk is not secure storage.


I am filing a bug with tesla for this. Let's see what happens.


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## James T (May 23, 2017)

telero said:


> Could you have let her login to her account on your phone app and then unlocked it?





webdriverguy00 said:


> Thats a great idea. Din't even think of that. See now i know


Her logging in on your phone wouldn't make it work as a key unless you had paired your phone using the keycard first, right?


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

John said:


> You also could have bought a 9V battery in the grocery store and opened her frunk for her.
> Just saying.


How would that have helped?


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

James T said:


> Her logging in on your phone wouldn't make it work as a key unless you had paired your phone using the keycard first, right?


It would not work as a key but once logged into the app you should be able to unlock a door.



iChris93 said:


> How would that have helped?


The frunk can be opened using a 9V like in the video above.


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

3V Pilot said:


> The frunk can be opened using a 9V like in the video above.


Sorry, I missed that the "keys" were in the frunk. Just getting into the frunk wouldn't have been helpful, but since the keys were there, that's all they needed!


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## jsanford (May 24, 2016)

I’ve made it a habit to keep my phone on me until I get in the car to go. When the screen locks, so does the car, which is likely how she locked her phone in.

Thursday last week my wallet was in the car and I’d just shut the trunk, and my phone crashed (which NEVER happens). Eloise folded in the mirrors and buttoned up. I wondered what would happen if my phone didn’t recover. Call for a remote unlock or fetch the other key card, I suppose.


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

jsanford said:


> I've made it a habit to keep my phone on me until I get in the car Togo. When the screen locks, so does the car, which is likely how she locked her phone in.
> 
> Thursday last week my wallet was in the car and I'd just shut the trunk, and my phone crashed (which NEVER happens). Eloise folded in the mirrors and buttoned up. I wondered what would happen if my phone didn't recover. Call for a remote unlock or fetch the other key card, I suppose.


I am trying to make a habit of always having my wallet with me. My previous habit was to remove it when I sit in the car. I don't want to get locket out if I ever forget my phone in car.


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## aanderson81 (Sep 13, 2017)

webdriverguy00 said:


> I am filing a bug with tesla for this. Let's see what happens.


I thought this was intentional as the first responder power cutoff was in the Frunk?


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

aanderson81 said:


> I thought this was intentional as the first responder power cutoff was in the Frunk?


The tow hook hole jumpers are only supposed to work when the 12v battery is dead (see page 28 of the first responders manual). If the 12v battery is not dead, then you should be able to get into the car via phone, keycard, or calling Tesla, and then using the screen to pop the frunk.

If first responders are involved, and things are bad enough that they're considering cutting the main power loop, then they aren't going to bother fiddling with the tow hook method of opening the frunk. They're just going to cut the frunk hood hinges to get to the main power loop.

Reference:
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/2017_Model_3_Emergency_Response_Guide_en.pdf


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

aanderson81 said:


> I thought this was intentional as the first responder power cutoff was in the Frunk?


I am not sure if I understand. As it stands now anyone can open your frunk with a 9v battery


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

webdriverguy00 said:


> I am not sure if I understand. As it stands now anyone can open your frunk with a 9v battery


Yes, anyone with a 9V battery who has read the Model 3 owners manual (which clearly states it only works when the 12V battery is dead) and then said person must ignore what he read and research the forums and or YouTube in order to understand how to open the frunk.

I think I'd be more worried about the guy with a rock who could smash the window of any car....... That may not gain him access to my frunk but the few people who are smart enough to understand this and willing to exploit it are the same type of people who would find it much easier to break into any car and not wait around with a battery looking for a Model 3.

For 1st Responders there is the power loop in the back of the car but since they may only have access to the one up front I'm betting Tesla will allow the frunk to open (using this method) even when the 12V battery is fine. Even though a 1st Responder wouldn't take the time to apply this method, they'd just use a crow bar to gain access. In the end it's down to the simple liability of restricting access to the frunk, if a 1st Responder would need to get in and cut the power it's right in the "Emergency Response Guide" for them to use this method.

Best bet though is just don't trust the Frunk as a place to store valuable stuff.


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

3V Pilot said:


> Yes, anyone with a 9V battery who has read the Model 3 owners manual (which clearly states it only works when the 12V battery is dead) and then said person must ignore what he read and research the forums and or YouTube in order to understand how to open the frunk.
> 
> I think I'd be more worried about the guy with a rock who could smash the window of any car....... That may not gain him access to my frunk but the few people who are smart enough to understand this and willing to exploit it are the same type of people who would find it much easier to break into any car and not wait around with a battery looking for a Model 3.
> 
> ...


But tesla can fix the method of using 9v battery when it's not dead to open the frunk can't they? If there is a strorage place I should be able to store any stuff in there. Having said that I should go verify if the 9v method still works.


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

webdriverguy00 said:


> But tesla can fix the method of using 9v battery when it's not dead to open the frunk can't they? If there is a strorage place I should be able to store any stuff in there. Having said that I should go verify if the 9v method still works.


Tesla "could" fix this issue "if" it's just a software thing. If the hardware is built in such a way that voltage pops the latch then it's more of an isssue. However the point I was trying to make is that they may not be willing to fix an issue that secures a little known vulnerability but would restrict access to 1st responders who may need to cut the power loop. If I were Tesla I would leave it alone because the liability to 1st responders is much greater than the liability of something getting stolen out of a car. (Okay, now I hate myself for reducing everything to "liability" but on the flip side I do feel a little more like a lawyer.....Not sure that is a good thing tough.......LOL)


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

3V Pilot said:


> Tesla "could" fix this issue "if" it's just a software thing. If the hardware is built in such a way that voltage pops the latch then it's more of an isssue. However the point I was trying to make is that they may not be willing to fix an issue that secures a little known vulnerability but would restrict access to 1st responders who may need to cut the power loop. If I were Tesla I would leave it alone because the liability to 1st responders is much greater than the liability of something getting stolen out of a car. (Okay, now I hate myself for reducing everything to "liability" but on the flip side I do feel a little more like a lawyer.....Not sure that is a good thing tough.......LOL)


Do you know if we get replies to [email protected]. I sent one but never got a reply. Sorry digressing here a little.


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

3V Pilot said:


> Tesla "could" fix this issue "if" it's just a software thing. If the hardware is built in such a way that voltage pops the latch then it's more of an isssue


Yes agreed



3V Pilot said:


> However the point I was trying to make is that they may not be willing to fix an issue that secures a little known vulnerability but would restrict access to 1st responders who may need to cut the power loop. If I were Tesla I would leave it alone because the liability to 1st responders is much greater than the liability of something getting stolen out of a car. (Okay, now I hate myself for reducing everything to "liability" but on the flip side I do feel a little more like a lawyer.....Not sure that is a good thing tough.......LOL)


But here as @garsh was pointing out 1st responders would just cut in the frunk anyways.


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

webdriverguy00 said:


> Do you know if we get replies to [email protected]. I sent one but never got a reply. Sorry digressing here a little.


I don't know. I've never used that e-mail address before. Let me know if you get a response, I'm curious.



webdriverguy00 said:


> But here as @garsh was pointing out 1st responders would just cut in the frunk anyways.


Very true, like I said above they would just use a crow bar to gain access. Unfortunately, due to the overly sensitive "liability-centric" environment we live in, Tesla (or any other company today) can't think like that. In order to protect themselves from frivolous lawsuits they have to think like "Well, if a 1st responded needed to access in order to cut the power, then we need to provide them with a to do that". I really believe that is the main reason for the way the system was designed. I'm sure it was a secondary thought when they said "Oh yea, we can also put that in the owners manual for a way in if the 12V battery is dead." At least that is my highly un-educated guess.


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## bigevil (Oct 22, 2018)

Epic photo though


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## Karl Sun (Sep 19, 2018)

John said:


> You also could have bought a 9V battery in the grocery store and opened her frunk for her.
> Just saying.


 If I read correctly, all her stuff was locked in the [rear] trunk? So this wouldn't help much, no?


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

The lady had said she left it in the frunk


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## Jay79 (Aug 18, 2018)

The car will NOT lock if your phone is detected in the car. So she either hit the lock button manually or her phone disconnected for whatever reason. I've tested this a few times leaving my phone and wallet in the car because I need to run back inside for quick second. Never locked once. I always keep my back up card in my wallet, and one in my bedroom. In an emergency I would call someone I trust and have them download the app and log into my account and unlock my car remotely. Its a fool proof car!


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## TheMagician (Oct 15, 2018)

John said:


> You also could have bought a 9V battery in the grocery store and opened her frunk for her.
> Just saying.


Okay, why is this not a sticky with big flashing banners around it? I've had a model 3 for 6 months and this is the first I've heard. You have to treat the frunk like you would the bed in a pickup (with a nicer tonneau cover).

And yes, the 9 volt trick still works. And yes, the car was locked. Be very careful pushing on the access door. It's very brittle. If you need me, I'll be epoxying my door back together


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## masto (Nov 11, 2018)

Jay79 said:


> The car will NOT lock if your phone is detected in the car. [...] Its a fool proof car!


Several people have posted reports in this forum of their cars locking with the phone inside. I think here's plenty of evidence to show that this Bluetooth/phone-based system is not as reliable at staying connected and not as reliable at identifying whether the phone is inside of the vehicle, compared to other cars' fob-based keyless entry systems. It is also highly dependent on something outside of Tesla's control: the specific model of phone you have and all its accompanying Bluetooth hardware and software quirks.

In the whole two weeks I've owned my car, I've never had an issue with walk-up lock/unlock, but even the Apple-to-Apple connection of my iPhone Xs to my AirPods glitches out on rare occasions, so I'm not going to call it fool proof just because it hasn't bitten me yet. I'm sure it's waiting for the coldest day of the year to make me have to take off my gloves and stand there restarting the phone.


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

This happened to me yesterday when the car locked with my phone inside. I had my wallet with me with key card.


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## Jay79 (Aug 18, 2018)

masto said:


> Several people have posted reports in this forum of their cars locking with the phone inside. I think here's plenty of evidence to show that this Bluetooth/phone-based system is not as reliable at staying connected and not as reliable at identifying whether the phone is inside of the vehicle, compared to other cars' fob-based keyless entry systems. It is also highly dependent on something outside of Tesla's control: the specific model of phone you have and all its accompanying Bluetooth hardware and software quirks.
> 
> In the whole two weeks I've owned my car, I've never had an issue with walk-up lock/unlock, but even the Apple-to-Apple connection of my iPhone Xs to my AirPods glitches out on rare occasions, so I'm not going to call it fool proof just because it hasn't bitten me yet. I'm sure it's waiting for the coldest day of the year to make me have to take off my gloves and stand there restarting the phone.


I love how you took one line out of everything I said...lol


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## Karl Sun (Sep 19, 2018)

webdriverguy00 said:


> The lady had said she left it in the frunk


 DOH!

My bad.


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## Nautilus (Oct 10, 2018)

TheMagician said:


> Be very careful pushing on the access door. It's very brittle. If you need me, I'll be epoxying my door back together
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Perhaps a silly question: Is the little circular access door supposed to open easily? Mine is basically stuck shut and I didn't want to force it. When I pointed this out at the service center (while going over a couple other issues at delivery), I was told they could open it for me, but it wouldn't reclose. In other words, it's not a repeatable open/shut door, but one that opens once (in an emergency) in a destructive manner, which must then be repaired at the SC.

Are others able to easily open and reshut that circular door?


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

Nautilus said:


> Perhaps a silly question: Is the little circular access door supposed to open easily? Mine is basically stuck shut and I didn't want to force it. When I pointed this out at the service center (while going over a couple other issues at delivery), I was told they could open it for me, but it wouldn't reclose. In other words, it's not a repeatable open/shut door, but one that opens once (in an emergency) in a destructive manner, which must then be repaired at the SC.
> 
> Are others able to easily open and reshut that circular door?


It can be removed without destroying it


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## TheMagician (Oct 15, 2018)

MelindaV said:


> It can be removed without destroying it


Now you tell me


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## babula (Aug 26, 2018)

There are a few third party solutions as well that allow you to lock and unlock your car as needed. A good backup in case something like this happens.

I also suggest leaving one of the cards with a close relative instead of carrying both on you which is essentially useless.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

MelindaV said:


> It can be removed without destroying it


But note, @TheMagician isn't the first person to have broken the cover when trying to remove it. Be very careful. I wish Tesla had made it a bit more robust.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

garsh said:


> But note, @TheMagician isn't the first person to have broken the cover when trying to remove it. Be very careful. I wish Tesla had made it a bit more robust.


it is more disturbing to me that the service center told @Nautilus this was a disposable piece that requires them to replace if used.


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## TheMagician (Oct 15, 2018)

MelindaV said:


> it is more disturbing to me that the service center told @Nautilus this was a disposable piece that requires them to replace if used.


Well, if it breaks while removing it, doesn't that make it disposable?  I was not pushing hard at all, I had watched the video so garsh is right, they're pretty fragile.

Maybe they should have said something along the lines of, "in their experience the cover generally breaks while removing it. Do you want us to proceed?" Bet they've broken a few, hence the advice. Really don't think they're out of line. Glued mine back together but will swing by SC later today or tomorrow and order a new one.


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## Nautilus (Oct 10, 2018)

Thanks Melinda. I looked at those very instructions and it was not moving, and I didn't want to force it. I should clarify that the service center didn't say it was disposable per se, but that they'd likely break it if they did demonstrate how to open it. Has anyone successfully opened the little door and reshut it to its original condition? I get that it is only supposed to be opened in unusual circumstances, but I'm thinking that will frequently lead to breakage, so best left alone until absolutely needed.


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## Frully (Aug 30, 2018)

I was at a supercharger where a gentleman locked himself out of his S coming to gawk at my then-unicorn 3. We used my phone to call tesla support and they remote unlocked his car after some security questions. Quite helpful and much simpler than getting the mobile tech.


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

Nautilus said:


> Has anyone successfully opened the little door and reshut it to its original condition?


Yes. On both of our Model 3's.

The first one required more force to remove than I thought should be necessary so, while it was out, I cleaned it up where I thought it was catching with some fine sandpaper and put a little dielectric grease on it. Now it goes in and out without drama.


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## Jarettp (Dec 1, 2018)

PNWmisty said:


> Yes. On both of our Model 3's.
> 
> The first one required more force to remove than I thought should be necessary so, while it was out, I cleaned it up where I thought it was catching with some fine sandpaper and put a little dielectric grease on it. Now it goes in and out without drama.


Much easier for the frunk thieves to get into it now.


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