# How is Ford going to make this work???



## GibbsGOD (Oct 16, 2018)

So, I had a conversation (that turned into a fight) with a friend the other day about the upcoming Ford Mach E (I refuse to call it a Mustang). Basically, he is Ford lover and cant wait for the Mach E to arrive and kick Tesla's ass. REALLY!!!! Being a Mod 3 Performance and Model X owner I had to look into a coupe things.

First the Ford Pass Charging Network (FPCN) that give all new owners "Complementary Access to the Ford Pass Charging Network for Free" (This is right from the Ford web site). Looking into this, all you get is an app that will link, or show you all charging options from every company Ford is working with. (Like Charge Point, EVGo and more) Then you are still obligated to pay the same amount as anyone else would. I decided to try their interactive FPCN map https://www.ford.ca/buy-site-wide-content/overlays/try-the-tech/ and compare a trip I drive every month with my Tesla Map. I ONLY used CD Fast Charging on the Ford FPCN. Here is what I got for a 276 Mile Trip one way. I am still not sure where to charge once I get there, or even part way back to get home. Also, the only DC fast charger is at a golf facility and has 1 stall????

If I search all charging speeds I get many locations along the way. The only issue is they are mostly 1 stall and at a hotel, car dealership, or other places that wouldn't get into unless you are staying there or not at all. Then you have the whopping 6 miles / hour charge rate. (in the summer months)










Below is the same route from Go Anywhere Tesla. You can see there are 5 Super Chargers along the way, and especially 2 at my final destination for the return trip. All of these have 7 or 8 stalls.










I am just not sure how all these other brands will function with this kind of coverage. I am sure if you are in a big city like New York, Las Angels, Dallas, Boston or Chicago you wouldn't have a problem finding a charger. But, how many chargers will they have and will they be open sharing with any other electric car manufacturer except Tesla.

The other fight we had was the real ability for a regular consumer to own a car like the upcoming Ford Mach E. The reason I say that are really pretty simple. (trying not to sound pompous at the same time)

With a Tesla owner, we are more of a Niche type of buyer for the most part. A person that would look for the $245/month lease payment deal on a 2020 Ford edge would usually not buy a Model Y. So, I know Ford expects to see to the masses, but using my friend from the start of my post, he is late 40's, drives a 2018 Ford Edge Platinum. That car is in the $32000 - $36000 price range and he leases it. This seem very typical in the area of Michigan I live in (20 Minutes N of Detroit) Lease if King. Now, if you get a second tier Mach E (Premium) you are looking at $50,000 ish. Then you need to add registration, in Michigan that costs you about $500-$600. Next is the big problem I see, HOME CHARGING.

Best case, you own your home, have 220 in the garage and can plugin for 35-40 mph charging. If you have a home, and its not setup for 220 yet, then you need to add an extra $1000 - $5000 to have that 220 ran. This is dependent where your electric box is. In most cases, its in the basement and you need to go through a few walls, an attic or something else to get to the car area.

Worst case, which I see will be big problem. Many Ford lovers will want this car, but Rent a house, live in an apartment or a condo and will not have a way to add home charging.

This is where I see the big problem for Big 3 car buyers, a lot of them will fall into the worst case class and wont be able to use a car like this. Also, with the extra expenses like registration, higher insurance and adding charging this could easily add an additional $3000-$6000 to the cost of their first EV purchase. Now this car is closer to 60K and still doesn't have a strong charging solution for them like Tesla does.

I wonder is the Ford dealer sales people will even tell the buyers this stuff or just sell them the car and tell them to plug it in??

I am done venting. I would like to hear from you and see what you have to say.

MC


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

I think it will be a mixed bag. I think many will jump on the Mach E because it is a Ford - a familiar name. I think many or most of them will charge at home and pay the same prices Tesla owners did to have that charging infrastructure installed in their home. Most in TX can likely get a 240 plug installed in the garage for under $500 and more typically half of that even. I don't see that being a big barrier to entry. Their customers lined up and waiting know what most of the Tesla owners know, they have to get some infrastructure installed at home. 

The problem will come when they want to road trip and you've hit that nail on the head. They are all over the place and going to find huge disappointments in finding plentiful chargers where they need them. EA is likely one of the best solutions for them, but it isn't built out to near the point of the Supercharger Network and there are gaps. It will be very problematic for a year or two still.

A few months back I used the Ford site to look at a route I would take just for comparison, one of the only Level 2 chargers I could find where I needed it was also a single stall and at a Harley Davidson dealership of all places. Very likely even not accessible after hours if they lock up their lot like many dealership places will do.

The key may be that they'll have so few of these cars concentrated in any one place they may not need 10 stall charging stations for some amount of time like Tesla does.

Make no mistake about it, those of us driving Model 3's and Y's have a HUGE amount of thanks to offer our earlier kin that drove the S for the first few years because they lived exactly what you are dissing on your Ford friend for. They didn't have the full SC network we have today. They were limited where they could go and how far for a few years. We have a huge thanks to those that endured and Elon for having the foresight to realize you've got to get the charging network out there before you produce millions of cars. Ford is in those early stages.

Where I will agree with you is that I think those of us driving Tesla know what we are getting in to that you may have to go a little out of the way to charge, to plan a trip, etc. I think many of those Ford is trying to win over have no clue what it will be like to not have 2 gas stations on every corner. They will likely get there, but this is just the next step. I wish them well, but it will be 2 steps forward and one step back as the new owners realize how hard it is to get anywhere beyond 100 miles of their home and not have a way to finish their journey or get back home.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

GibbsGOD said:


> So, I had a conversation (that turned into a fight) with a friend the other day about the upcoming Ford Mach E (I refuse to call it a Mustang). Basically, he is Ford lover and cant wait for the Mach E to arrive and kick Tesla's ass. REALLY!!!!


Step back from being a Tesla fan, and realize that this is a Really Good Thing™.

Another car company is planning on making a very compelling electric car! It's not a compliance car, or a weirdmobile. And heck, they even bestowed the company's* most iconic name* on the vehicle, which shows how serious they are about it.

I can't wait for Tesla to get some real competition.


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## mrau (Nov 22, 2018)

One advantage for Ford and GM is they already have a vast dealership network in place. They could easily add some L3 dc charging stations at all their dealerships in just a couple of months if they wanted to. But I agree that Tesla has the best supercharging network in place right now. Competition is coming, and usually the consumer is the winner.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

I'll just add that home charging is home charging. There's no difference in cost when running a 220V line, wether the end device is a Tesla wall connector or any other brand. If someone is charging different rates, then find someone else. In this regard, people are open to choose whatever they prefer and they'll get around town without issue and have a full charge in the morning.

Long distance travel IS really where Tesla has the advantage, and this isn't some secret. Though I don't know if people are thinking about the rare long distance trip when buying a vehicle so the Mach E may look more appealing than the Tesla for them.


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## styleruk (Dec 3, 2018)

garsh said:


> Step back from being a Tesla fan, and realize that this is a Really Good Thing™.
> 
> Another car company is planning on making a very compelling electric car! It's not a compliance car, or a weirdmobile. And heck, they even bestowed the companies* most iconic name* on the vehicle, which shows how serious they are about it.
> 
> I can't wait for Tesla to get some real competition.


Exactly, I drove a smart EV for 5yrs before getting my model 3 and I found a ton of places to charge but always though...we need more car companies to make this normal. With my model 3 here in the UK, there seem to be as many 'other' charge points as tesla. That said, when you go on a long trip and stop at services, the Tesla rapid chargers are still the most common, but when I go to the supermarkets...it's pod point which I can charge any vehicle (although only at 7kW.
Bring on the competition I say, we need more infrastructure.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

mrau said:


> One advantage for Ford and GM is they already have a vast dealership network in place. They could easily add some L3 dc charging stations at all their dealerships in just a couple of months if they wanted to.


Nissan did that for the Leaf. That strategy doesn't work, for several reasons:

Some dealerships act possessive about their charging stations, and only allow customers to use them.
Dealership charging stations are often blocked from access when the dealership is closed.
Dealerships often just use those spaces for additional parking, making the charging stations inaccessible.
Dealerships do not tend to be conveniently located off of major interstates to support long-distance travel.
Dealerships don't tend to be located next to restaurants, again to support long-distance travel.


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## lance.bailey (Apr 1, 2019)

Dunno @garsh I think that a Tesla charging at a Ford dealer's CCS or (with adapter) CHAdemo would be ... discouraged. But a ford owner would be welcomed. If Ford is smart, they will make the chargers DC fast and put the charger accessible to Ford owners even after hours with a key-card form of access like long-haulers have for petrol on the highways.

With a Ford dealer on every second corner in some parts of the continent that makes access easier and prevalent to Mach E or F150-E or whatever) owners.

Elon had to acquire/barter/horse-trade real estate to set up the Tesla chargers across the continent, if Ford doesn't take advantage of the turf they already own for dealerships, then colour me surprised.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Again, I'm basing this on what we previously saw with Nissan and the Leaf.


lance.bailey said:


> Dunno @garsh I think that a Tesla charging at a Ford dealer's CCS or (with adapter) CHAdemo would be ... discouraged. But a ford owner would be welcomed.


You would think so. Yet some Nissan dealers wouldn't let you charge your Nissan Leaf there unless you bought it at that dealership. Otherwise they thought you were trying to "steal their electricity".


> If Ford is smart, they will make the chargers DC fast and put the charger accessible to Ford owners even after hours with a key-card form of access like long-haulers have for petrol on the highways.


Remember, dealerships are not owned by manufacturers, AND manufacturers have very little control over how a dealership is run.
Dealerships tend to be protected monopolies in their geographic area.


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## styleruk (Dec 3, 2018)

garsh said:


> Nissan did that for the Leaf. That strategy doesn't work, for several reasons:
> 
> Some dealerships act possessive about their charging stations, and only allow customers to use them.
> Dealership charging stations are often blocked from access when the dealership is closed.
> ...


To bring a tiny bit of balance to the argument, I used to charge at 2 Nissan dealers in my Smart quite regular, they didn't mind, but maybe I met the nice guys.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

mrau said:


> One advantage for Ford and GM is they already have a vast dealership network in place. They could easily add some L3 dc charging stations at all their dealerships in just a couple of months if they wanted to. But I agree that Tesla has the best supercharging network in place right now. Competition is coming, and usually the consumer is the winner.


Most dealerships around here have locked bar gates at the entrances to their parking lots when closed. And they are closed on Sundays. Doesn't lead to adding DC Fast Chargers for travelers.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Not only protected monopolies, but also owned by people that have become very very wealthy from them, which means most everything done strictly for profit. The dealerships are not going to get on board because they can't see the benefit today.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

styleruk said:


> To bring a tiny bit of balance to the argument, I used to charge at 2 Nissan dealers in my Smart quite regular, they didn't mind, but maybe I met the nice guys.


Oh, it's definitely very dealer-dependent.
I've charged my Leaf at a friendly BMW dealership and Chevy dealership.
But I was also turned away by a Nissan dealership!
And that's the point - it's a bit of a crapshoot.


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## lance.bailey (Apr 1, 2019)

wow, that is definitely unexpected by me. Now, I tend to charge exclusively at home, occasionally at Mall Chargepoint or Flo stations, so my perception is likely skewed with Canadian optimism.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

lance.bailey said:


> Dunno @garsh I think that a Tesla charging at a Ford dealer's CCS or (with adapter) CHAdemo would be ... discouraged. But a ford owner would be welcomed. If Ford is smart, they will make the chargers DC fast and put the charger accessible to Ford owners even after hours with a key-card form of access like long-haulers have for petrol on the highways.
> 
> With a Ford dealer on every second corner in some parts of the continent that makes access easier and prevalent to Mach E or F150-E or whatever) owners.
> 
> Elon had to acquire/barter/horse-trade real estate to set up the Tesla chargers across the continent, if Ford doesn't take advantage of the turf they already own for dealerships, then colour me surprised.


Thing is, Ford doesn't own any of those dealerships. They're all independent and all the major ICE manufacturers haven't spent ANY effort to assuage their dealer network towards the transition to EVs. The dealerships have been and will always be anti EV because of the minimal maintenance they need. That's a large loss of income for them. Almost 2 years into my 3 and I've taken it to Tesla zero times for maintenance. During the same time frame I've taken my Honda Pilot 4 times. My sister also called me yesterday as her Honda Odyssey is 5 years old now and is due up for some major maintenances that will cost hundreds of dollars.

So for dealerships to install EV chargers, ford is going to have to cough up some cash as an incentive otherwise those stalls will just be reminders of lost income to those dealerships.


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

lance.bailey said:


> ... if Ford doesn't take advantage of the turf they already own for dealerships, then colour me surprised.


 Ford doesn't own ANY dealerships - they are all independently owned and operated.

Ford (corporate) *could* require their dealers [that are licensed o sell their "E" products, or example] to provide charging capabilities though.


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## lance.bailey (Apr 1, 2019)

okay - you can now consider me coloured in a lovely shade of surprised


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

Most people who buy the Mach E will be happy they have a Ford, will most likely charge at home daily just like most Tesla drivers do, and will mostly just daily commute and maybe take a 100 mile drive once in a while.

When they decide to drive further, just like some of us do, they'll look up Plugshare, or use Ford's own charging guide. They'll be annoyed that they have to create Chargepoint, Blink, and Electrify America accounts just to hit a couple of chargers along the way, and even more so if some of them are broken.

But in the end, they'll be happy they're part of a different way of doing things. So while Ford's attempt is flawed, so was Tesla's, at first. Everyone has to start somewhere, and I applaud Ford for really trying.

Tesla has a head start, but remember it's original mission: To foster the adoption of EV's as mainstream cars. The more companies that jump in, the more affordable EV's become.


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

garsh said:


> Again, I'm basing this on what we previously saw with Nissan and the Leaf.
> You would think so. Yet some Nissan dealers wouldn't let you charge your Nissan Leaf there unless you bought it at that dealership. Otherwise they thought you were trying to "steal their electricity".
> 
> Remember, dealerships are not owned by manufacturers, AND manufacturers have very little control over how a dealership is run.
> Dealerships tend to be protected monopolies in their geographic area.


Great video! Will need to share that around a bit more.


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## TomT (Apr 1, 2019)

Definitely the exception to the rule...



styleruk said:


> To bring a tiny bit of balance to the argument, I used to charge at 2 Nissan dealers in my Smart quite regular, they didn't mind, but maybe I met the nice guys.


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## styleruk (Dec 3, 2018)

garsh said:


> Oh, it's definitely very dealer-dependent.
> I've charged my Leaf at a friendly BMW dealership and Chevy dealership.
> But I was also turned away by a Nissan dealership!
> And that's the point - it's a bit of a crapshoot.


It is really. How do you guys fair with other chargers then? we have ionity and pod point where we can charge up at, pod point is free but ionity is quite good. Only recently some guys set a record from one end of UK to the other with the shortest amount of charge, we have it quite good here in UK but it has a long way to go as more people get EV cars.

https://www.zap-map.com/ev-charging...bon World has set,a Tesla Model 3 Performance.

Also, we have our first charge station opening soon...
https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/202...c-car-charging-forecourt-set-to-open-in-essex

This is one of many going up, but it needs to progress a little quicker. Then the Ford guys as well as everyone else would be equal.


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## styleruk (Dec 3, 2018)

This prompted me to look at the ford site and see what's on offer, got the office at work looking too. We are an automotive design company so we have interest in these things.
On the UK site Ford state a 50% reduction in service costs, now that's an issue right there, the Ford driver in the office (has RS), is pleased to see that because it costs a small fortune every time you service, so it will still be quite a price. Surely they need to move on from regular services? Tesla have a good thing going here, I also have a Niu electric moped and you really don't need to service that, you do ring them up and say what needs doing and if you can check things yourself, then you can (TBH, if you can't check over nuts and bolts on a bike you should not be on one).
Having said that, the Ford guy really does not know what to move on to next. He recons the way he drives, an EV will not go far enough and not powerful enough...hmmm.
Personal note. The front of the Mach -E is pig ugly. Now the Polestar, that is nice, sat in one of them in the design studios in Sweden a year or so ago, absolutely beautiful and a fair price too.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

styleruk said:


> How do you guys fair with other chargers then?


The only ones that I depend on are superchargers. For anything else, I'm "opportunity charging" rather than out of necessity. That way if a charger isn't available, it won't inconvenience me.

We have ChargePoint at work, and I was using them regularly (until the recent switch to WFH). But we have 18 stations at work, so no problems if you got there early in the morning, and there were some backups when some of them go out-of-service.


styleruk said:


> He recons the way he drives, an EV will not go far enough...


I can see that.


> ... and not powerful enough.


BWAHAHAHA! Your office mate needs a little educating. You should take him out for a test drive of a Model 3 Performance.


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## lance.bailey (Apr 1, 2019)

garsh said:


> BWAHAHAHA! Your office mate needs a little educating. You should take him out for a test drive of a Model 3 Performance.


Drove my wife in the Model 3 for first time in months - she has been sequestered since WFH started. When we got out of the neigbourhood onto a piece of straight highway I dropped the accelerator and she squealed nicely. So I asked her if she needed to climb into the back seat to look for any items of clothing we left behind.

might not want to say that to your buddy, but it generated the appropriate response from my wife.


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## styleruk (Dec 3, 2018)

lance.bailey said:


> Drove my wife in the Model 3 for first time in months - she has been sequestered since WFH started. When we got out of the neigbourhood onto a piece of straight highway I dropped the accelerator and she squealed nicely. So I asked her if she needed to climb into the back seat to look for any items of clothing we left behind.
> 
> might not want to say that to your buddy, but it generated the appropriate response from my wife.


Yes, unfortunately, some people are too single minded. I have a motorbike that can top 175mph and 0-60 so much faster than any car on the road. I've said to people, do a track day on a proper race spec 600cc and you'll never feel that kind of performance on the road, it's very exciting to do and you just cannot conceive how quick you can accelerate on a bike until you've had a go. But like the 'Ford guy', nothing will compare and you can't change their minds. There's another chap in the office that would say if it don't have a BMW badge on it, then it's no good! So you can't please everyone.

This Ford will sell well because it's priced right and the EV movement needs more cars to make it more normal to everyone.

As for superchargers, if I drive to my son's house in Devon, it's 200miles and I normally stop at an ionity station, not a Tesla one. I would say on all the long trips I've had in the last year, I've only used tesla super chargers a few times. I too charge up at home and at work so it's not an issue for me, I even get paid for charging my car because I have solar panels and get paid for units I use. If the USA has only Tesla chargers everywhere then that probably is not such a good thing, there's cars coming through the automotive machine that are very attractive and priced as cheap as petrol cars.

That said, and going back to what the Op said, I do hate it when people say, 'it's a tesla killer'. My response is, 'is it a time machine then'?


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## GibbsGOD (Oct 16, 2018)

I am in the metro Detroit area and have caught a glimpse of a few Mach E's on the road. Good looking car! I think if people that can get charging at home (too much money, rental, apartment, Condo) they will have the problem. All the chargers in my area looking at the ford charging app are at hotels, restaurants, and dealerships mostly. All are slow from what I can tell 6-7 KM/hr. Like charging Tesla on 110. Also, the other big issue, is of the 32 charging spots around me they could use the most chargers at one place are 3!! 

The 4 car dealers near me all have chargers and will ONLY let customers use them. Each of those have either 1 or 2 chargers. The ford dealer has 1 charger. I am not sure they are ready to be a gas station for the 5000-10000 Ev's they sell. They all would have to change around their whole parking, new and used car lots as well. I am just not seeing them being such forward thinkers. I have yet to see a single gas station in the area (maybe 15 miles) that has any type of electric charging yet either. There are 2 Superchargers at gas stations (with 8 stalls), but none for anyone else.

I hope they get in the game soon, once Ford and GM start selling their EV's it will be chaos for charging.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

*'Why did it take nine hours to go 130 miles in our new electric Porsche?'*
A Kent couple love their new car - but their experience suggests there are problems with the charging network

All of these traditional car companies are going to have major growing pains if they attempt to rely on third-party fast-charging solutions.


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

garsh said:


> All of these traditional car companies are going to have major growing pains if they attempt to rely on third-party fast-charging solutions.


I haven't seen evidence of them doing it yet, but Ford initially claimed they would invest in their own charging network. I think it might actually be smart for smaller companies bringing out EV's to negotiate with Tesla and license the use of their charging network.

EDIT: Just read the article linked above. "We left Bournemouth with 45 miles of range left..." There's your problem!


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## styleruk (Dec 3, 2018)

JasonF said:


> I haven't seen evidence of them doing it yet, but Ford initially claimed they would invest in their own charging network. I think it might actually be smart for smaller companies bringing out EV's to negotiate with Tesla and license the use of their charging network.
> 
> EDIT: Just read the article linked above. "We left Bournemouth with 45 miles of range left..." There's your problem!


Exactly, people don't seem to have the ability to adjust. If you leave home with little range left you would have problems, it'll get better as time goes on, hell, people used to stop at chemists to get fuel when cars first started.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

JasonF said:


> EDIT: Just read the article linked above. "We left Bournemouth with 45 miles of range left..." There's your problem!


In one sense, yes. We're still in the early days of EVs, and some amount of pre-planning is necessary for long trips.

In another sense, this points out just how deficient Porsche's charging network is (at least in the U.K.). I have a supercharging location within 75 miles of home, in just about any direction I take on a major highway. So I could actually survive just fine taking off for a trip with a low battery, just like I could start off a trip with low fuel.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

garsh said:


> *'Why did it take nine hours to go 130 miles in our new electric Porsche?'*
> A Kent couple love their new car - but their experience suggests there are problems with the charging network
> 
> All of these traditional car companies are going to have major growing pains if they attempt to rely on third-party fast-charging solutions.


Well, I think they are going to have to. All of them seem to offer "partnerships", but no one's actually owning the things.

Sounds like this couple was pretty clueless about owning an EV. I mean, how do you go to a Tesla charger and not know you can't plug in your Taycan. But I think this is indicative of the state of life for the "general public" who might be talked into an EV by a dealer looking to unload one. They don't have the first clue about charging and don't really want to either. And you have to admit, it's way more complicated than pulling up to a petrol station (if you don't own a Tesla). There are different brands, and each one processes payment differently. The charger may or may not "talk' to your vehicle. And on top of that, there are different charging speeds and different speeds within each charge session. People are not going to go for this initially.

Harry Metcalfe founded EVO magazine, long considered one of the top enthusiast magazines in the world. It's based out of the UK and Harry lives in Burford, a little ways out of London. He's pretty progressive and has been driving different EV's and pHEV's to figure out what he wants to replace his family Range Rover with. About a year ago, this was his experience with charging:






Bad.

But then yesterday he dropped a video with a Taycan where he had zero problems charging and paying with a credit card:






So improvements seem to be being made. But in the US, even Electrify America can't get their act together completely. This post is by a friend of mine who is a multiple EV owner, including Volt, Bolt, 5 Teslas and now a Taycan. And this is his experience with EA:

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...led-electrify-america-charging-session….2274/


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

styleruk said:


> Exactly, people don't seem to have the ability to adjust. If you leave home with little range left you would have problems, it'll get better as time goes on, hell, people used to stop at chemists to get fuel when cars first started.


Forget about first started - it was still fairly recent history when driving long stretches of interstate highway meant planning your fuel stops because some of them could be 100 miles apart. And even more recent when not all gas stations had friendly brands, and you just didn't want to stop at some of them no matter how close to fumes you are. Gasoline cars had probably been driving around for 50 or 60 years before we got where we are now with fueling.

Except EV's are catching up to that much more rapidly. Tesla didn't really get much traction with the concept of long drives in an EV until something like 2015. It's been _five years_, and they already have a worldwide charging network. In another five, everyone else might, too.

Ironically (and only tangentially on topic), if you think back to the time when some of the gas stops were 100 miles apart...both at that time and now, that technically means electricity is much more easy to come by. If your car runs low on gas on a lonely road, and you just missed the last fuel stop, you're going to have a long walk ahead. But odds are there's someone with a 120 volt outlet you can plug into for an hour to get a little extra...and maybe even a 220 volt outlet at a trailer park.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

JasonF said:


> Forget about first started - it was still fairly recent history when driving long stretches of interstate highway meant planning your fuel stops because some of them could be 100 miles apart. And even more recent when not all gas stations had friendly brands, and you just didn't want to stop at some of them no matter how close to fumes you are. Gasoline cars had probably been driving around for 50 or 60 years before we got where we are now with fueling.
> 
> Except EV's are catching up to that much more rapidly. Tesla didn't really get much traction with the concept of long drives in an EV until something like 2015. It's been _five years_, and they already have a worldwide charging network. In another five, everyone else might, too.
> 
> Ironically (and only tangentially on topic), if you think back to the time when some of the gas stops were 100 miles apart...both at that time and now, that technically means electricity is much more easy to come by. If your car runs low on gas on a lonely road, and you just missed the last fuel stop, you're going to have a long walk ahead. But odds are there's someone with a 120 volt outlet you can plug into for an hour to get a little extra...and maybe even a 220 volt outlet at a trailer park.


Agreed. A lot of it is re-education of the user in addition to the network.

Having the ability to charge a credit card at the machine would be a huge step forward, imo.


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## AutopilotFan (Oct 6, 2018)

I charge at home -- in a condo, using a regular 110v outlet. I don't think you need a 220v line unless your regular daily commute is over 50 miles per day and you can't charge at work. Well, if you have an EV with 300+ miles of range.

So cost is not an issue for most EV owners if they can charge at home while they sleep. Who cares if it takes 2 hours or 10 hours when you're going to be parked at home for 14 hours most nights?


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

I have an associate that works in the Parts Dept for a local Ford dealer that I have used to source parts for me over the past 3 decades. I called him before the holiday and asked if Ford had installed any chargers for the new EVs. Of course they don;t have any EVs available yet but he commented that the service manager has a P85D that the chargers at work and he said (the serv mgr) that the MachE would use the same charger.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

JasonF said:


> I haven't seen evidence of them doing it yet, but Ford initially claimed they would invest in their own charging network.


Whenever Tesla adds a supercharging location, they seem to include a minimum of eight charging stalls.

Most fast-charging networks seem to only have 1 or 2 stalls at each location. I've never personally seen more than a single Chademo stall at any single location. Electrify America seems to be a little better - the three closest locations to me have four stalls each, but that's still far behind Tesla. If any third-party EV becomes popular (like hopefully the Mach-E will), then it won't be long before we start hearing of "waiting in line" for a charge during holiday travel, much like we do for Teslas in California.


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