# [Confirmed] Model 3 key fob is coming!



## 96s46p

FOB may be available (or at least announced) as early as next month based on this new filing. Typically the short term confidentiality dates are aligned with when the product begins sales and marketing. It is set at 9/20 so we will get to see the photos and user manual then.

https://fccid.io/2AEIM-1133148


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## Brokedoc

Without a doubt this is for the Model 3. Canadian Model 3s have been unable to use Summon due to their laws. The bluetooth low energy (BLE) will allow it to be used with all of the Model 3s already made. Question will be how they solve battery life issue?

My guess:

It will be standard in Canadian cars an optional accessory for U.S. cars.

I'm guessing it will have a rechargeable, replaceable battery like AAA and be wirelessly chargeable every 2-4 wks.

On my wish list would be that this could charge on any Qi charger and Tesla will release their own wireless charging pad


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## jsmay311

Brokedoc said:


> Question will be how they solve battery life issue?
> 
> [...] I'm guessing it will have a rechargeable, replaceable battery like AAA and be wirelessly chargeable every 2-4 wks.
> 
> On my wish list would be that this could charge on any Qi charger and Tesla will release their own wireless charging pad


Wha???  Do Model X fobs not have reasonable battery life???


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## Brokedoc

jsmay311 said:


> Wha???  Do Model X fobs not have reasonable battery life???


Model S/X keyfobs are short range standard frequency transmitters like most car keyfobs. A bluetooth keyfob like what is needed on the Model 3 will use more energy. Similar to the Bluetooth remote control on my Samsung TV that constantly needs new batteries.


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## Edward Reading

Oh thank god, our long national nightmare will be over!


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## 96s46p

Brokedoc said:


> Model S/X keyfobs are short range standard frequency transmitters like most car keyfobs. A bluetooth keyfob like what is needed on the Model 3 will use more energy. Similar to the Bluetooth remote control on my Samsung TV that constantly needs new batteries.


Not sure what is wrong with your remote, but ble item trackers last 6-12mo on a coin cell and I've never replaced the battery in my firetv remote.


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## jsmay311

Brokedoc said:


> Model S/X keyfobs are short range standard frequency transmitters like most car keyfobs.


Pretty sure that's not true for the X. If you search online you find tons of references about the X using a Bluetooth/BLE fob. (Although, curiously I can't find any official statement from Tesla about it.)

And I thought newer S's also now use a Bluetooth fob, but I'm not certain about that and I'm having trouble finding corroborating info online.


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## BluestarE3

Oh damn, I didn't need to get a smartphone after all! Now, where did I stash that flip-phone...


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## SoFlaModel3

If it’s free in the US, I’ll take it as a souvenir but I’m happy with no keys!!


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## Brokedoc

jsmay311 said:


> Pretty sure that's not true for the X. If you search online you find tons of references about the X using a Bluetooth/BLE fob. (Although, curiously I can't find any official statement from Tesla about it.)
> 
> And I thought newer S's also now use a Bluetooth fob, but I'm not certain about that and I'm having trouble finding corroborating info online.


@jsmay311 is absolutely correct. The current S/X transmitters are 2.4 GHz with BLE also. Here is the FCC ID application from 2015.
https://fccid.io/2AEIM-1048598

IIRC the button battery in my keyfob lasted about 6-9 months before I started getting an alert to change the battery.

Knowing that the current S/X transmitters are similar to the new FCC application, maybe this application is an updated keyfob for the S/X and not the promised keyfob for the Model 3?


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## JWardell

There's no way it's going to use AAAs. I swear, those batteries need to go away.

Think of it like a bluetooth locator like Tile (in fact, it should be pretty much identical, plus an extra button or two). The tiny batteries in those last more than a year.
Or maybe it will be rechargeable Li-Ion. I'm thinking of my AppleTV remote which needs a charge once every 4-5 months and is charged in 10 minutes.


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## Brokedoc

Interestingly, I was comparing the two FCC applications and the X keyfob power output is *0.00748 watts* whereas the new keyfob is *0.0038 watts.* Assuming efficiency is the same, the battery should last a lot longer.

After 9/20/18, the photos will be viewable and we can see exactly what it looks like and get a better idea which car it's for.


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## Brokedoc

The main difference between the BT locators and the keyfob is that the keyfob is used MUCH more and will drain the battery faster.


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## JWardell

Brokedoc said:


> The main difference between the BT locators and the keyfob is that the keyfob is used MUCH more and will drain the battery faster.


Why would it be used any more? The tile is pinged ever few minutes. The car can transmit a signal to activate the listening fob instead of vice-versa just like EZPass.
It's nothing new...most other manufacturers have comfort access fobs and the button batteries last 1-2 years.


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## MelindaV

Brokedoc said:


> My guess:
> 
> It will be standard in Canadian cars an optional accessory for U.S. cars.


has it been registered with IC also? (do those show publicly?) the FCC filing would only apply to USA models.


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## Brokedoc

MelindaV said:


> has it been registered with IC also? (do those show publicly?) the FCC filing would only apply to USA models.


FWIW: The 2015 FCC registration was and
FCC 2AEIM-1048598
IC 20098-1048598
Both are publicly viewable.

Using the same nomenclature, I tried to search the new
2AEIM-1133148
as IC 20098-1133148 and I didn't get any hits.


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## PaTesla

unnecessary for me; i would maybe get one if <$50


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## Diamond.g

JWardell said:


> Why would it be used any more? The tile is pinged ever few minutes. The car can transmit a signal to activate the listening fob instead of vice-versa just like EZPass.
> It's nothing new...most other manufacturers have comfort access fobs and the button batteries last 1-2 years.


From what I have seen at TMC the X fob is quite chatty when in range of the vehicle. Not sure if that is still the case though. Haven't lurked that forum in a while.


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## Brokedoc

Diamond.g said:


> From what I have seen at TMC the X fob is quite chatty when in range of the vehicle. Not sure if that is still the case though. Haven't lurked that forum in a while.


Maybe they were only referring to the FEMALE keyfobs?


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## GDN

Since it is all just speculation I figure they will either give at least one to everyone with a car, or it'll be at a price that is close to cost, maybe $25 or so? Or maybe they don't give them away, but even though I'm happy with just the phone, since they've had enough backlash and request for a fob, there will be mutiny if they try to charge $150 to $200 fo it. It should come in at a pretty reasonable price.


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## Brokedoc

GDN said:


> Since it is all just speculation I figure they will either give at least one to everyone with a car, or it'll be at a price that is close to cost, maybe $25 or so? Or maybe they don't give them away, but even though I'm happy with just the phone, since they've had enough backlash and request for a fob, there will be mutiny if they try to charge $150 to $200 fo it. It should come in at a pretty reasonable price.


FWIW, the FCC listing description is similar to the X fob which costs around $250 each


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## GDN

Brokedoc said:


> FWIW, the FCC listing description is similar to the X fob which costs around $250 each


Yeah - but what does it cost to make them? That is the sad part. Just thinking that since there isn't one included and there is enough push back (obviously since they are caving in and making one) that it will have to be at a reasonable price.


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## 96s46p

I just hope they are sold online and can be paired to the car by the owner like a phone.


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## John

JWardell said:


> There's no way it's going to use AAAs. I swear, those batteries need to go away.
> 
> Think of it like a bluetooth locator like Tile (in fact, it should be pretty much identical, plus an extra button or two). The tiny batteries in those last more than a year.
> Or maybe it will be rechargeable Li-Ion. I'm thinking of my AppleTV remote which needs a charge once every 4-5 months and is charged in 10 minutes.


It'll definitely use coin cells. I say this because there are NO shipping regulations on coin cells, and tons of them for LiOn batteries. Such a pain these days.

I don't know if I'll get a fob or not. Pretty happy now, and I carry ZERO keys.

If I got a fob, it would be for valets and other strangers I loan the car to.


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## Brokedoc

96s46p said:


> I just hope they are sold online and can be paired to the car by the owner like a phone.


Based on the extra Model 3 key cards needing to be factory paired and the current S/X fobs needing to be factory paired, I think any Model 3 fob will need factory pairing also.


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## John

Brokedoc said:


> Based on the extra Model 3 key cards needing to be factory paired and the current S/X fobs needing to be factory paired, I think any Model 3 fob will need factory pairing also.


Maybe. On the other hand, radio keys (your phone) are currently paired via card authentication. It's only the cards themselves that need to be "hard authenticated." So maybe the system is that the cards are the authority, and phones and fobs have to be vouched for with a card. No reason to have TWO kinds of authorities, is there?


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## Diamond.g

John said:


> Maybe. On the other hand, radio keys (your phone) are currently paired via card authentication. It's only the cards themselves that need to be "hard authenticated." So maybe the system is that the cards are the authority, and phones and fobs have to be vouched for with a card. No reason to have TWO kinds of authorities, is there?


I suspect the fob would work like the card, as there is no way to initiate the paring process from the fob side like you do from the phone. Which is likely why we can't pair more cards on our own either.


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## John

Diamond.g said:


> I suspect the fob would work like the card, as there is no way to initiate the paring process from the fob side like you do from the phone. Which is likely why we can't pair more cards on our own either.


Other cars already allow you to authenticate new fobs yourself. You put the car in pairing mode (in a Prius for instance it includes an elaborate series of door openings, key insertions, and the power button) and you always need an authorized key present to do the new pairing.


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## Diamond.g

John said:


> Other cars already allow you to authenticate new fobs yourself. You put the car in pairing mode (in a Prius for instance it includes an elaborate series of door openings, key insertions, and the power button) and you always need an authorized key present to do the new pairing.


Fair enough. My Volt allows me to add keys too, I just noticed that neither the S or X let you do the same at this time, and figured the 3 would be the same.


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## John

Diamond.g said:


> Fair enough. My Volt allows me to add keys too, I just noticed that neither the S or X let you do the same at this time, and figured the 3 would be the same.


Yeah, I'm just guessing, too.


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## IEGuy

I welcome a fob.

My phone (Pixel 2 XL) worked flawlessly for about a month. It now almost never works. My wife's Pixel 2 works well.

One thing I just recently realized is that if I manually unlock with my phone, the car doesn't automatically lock when I walk away from it (even though it's configured to do so). The recent software change that initiated the horn-honk-on-lock alerted me to this fact.

Isn't current technology wonderful? My 2006 and 2009 cars with "older" technology have worked flawlessly without giving them a second thought (and the batteries last a very long time). Having to push the buttons on them is a small price to pay for the immediate and certain control they provide.


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## John

IEGuy said:


> I welcome a fob.
> 
> My phone (Pixel 2 XL) worked flawlessly for about a month. It now almost never works. My wife's Pixel 2 works well.
> 
> One thing I just recently realized is that if I manually unlock with my phone, the car doesn't automatically lock when I walk away from it (even though it's configured to do so). The recent software change that initiated the horn-honk-on-lock alerted me to this fact.
> 
> Isn't current technology wonderful? My 2006 and 2009 cars with "older" technology have worked flawlessly without giving them a second thought (and the batteries last a very long time). Having to push the buttons on them is a small price to pay for the immediate and certain control they provide.


I wouldn't give up on your phone if I were you, it's too convenient when it works. Google the Android settings that people are using (like the ones that conserve power), and I would bet you can get it working.


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## Dr. J

GDN said:


> it will have to be at a reasonable price.


"Something special" for day 1 line waiters?


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## EValuatED

Dr. J said:


> "Something special" for day 1 line waiters?


Fob with integrated HUD?

(Edit: Crappy reference to a 2+ year old obsession... I mean speculation... no I mean obsession, among the line standers and early reservationists.)


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## 96s46p

The fob should be able to pair just like a phone. The only thing it doesn't have is an internet connection but fobs can ship with certificates in hardware protected crypto storage instead to establish a trust root. Or you could provision the fob by pairing it to your phone first and it could talk to Tesla's servers by using the phone's internet connection.


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## BluestarE3

EValuatED said:


> Fob with integrated HUD?


Would the portmanteau for that be FUD?


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## BatterySam

John said:


> It'll definitely use coin cells. I say this because there are NO shipping regulations on coin cells, and tons of them for LiOn batteries. Such a pain these days.
> 
> I don't know if I'll get a fob or not. Pretty happy now, and I carry ZERO keys.
> 
> If I got a fob, it would be for valets and other strangers I loan the car to.


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## BatterySam

Actually there are regulations on shipping ALL lithium cells. However, you would not have to ship lithium coin cells as Class 9 Hazardous (via air shipment) IF the cell is in the application (key fob). Also it depends on the mode of transportation (ground vs air).


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## PNWmisty

GDN said:


> Yeah - but what does it cost to make them? That is the sad part.


That's kind of like asking how much does a copy of Microsoft Office cost them to make? Because the development and testing of the product has to be costed over the number sold. And since my phone works 100% reliably as a key fob, and I always have my phone with me, I won't be buying a fob even if it was only $25. It would just represent one more device I would have to stock batteries for and periodically replace. No thanks.

My point is, the cost per fob could be quite high if there is low demand for yet another way to unlock the Model 3.


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## John

BatterySam said:


> Actually there are regulations on shipping ALL lithium cells. However, you would not have to ship lithium coin cells as Class 9 Hazardous (via air shipment) IF the cell is in the application (key fob). Also it depends on the mode of transportation (ground vs air).


Every product my company sells uses lithium ion rechargeable batteries, so I do know a bit about this.

Coin cells are exempted from hazardous restrictions. You can ship them any way you want, with no warnings or restrictions. No one seems to be worried about coin cells (US or EU). Not sure why, I guess there have been no incidents.

But lithium polymer (non-coin) cells contained in products are still subject to restrictions (dangerous goods labels, quantities per container, etc.). This is the category my company's products fall into. It is a pain.

If at all possible, you'd want to use coin cells. And since that's what fobs currently use, I'd think it's a certainty that'd be what they use.


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## BatterySam

John said:


> Every product my company sells uses lithium ion rechargeable batteries, so I do know a bit about this.
> 
> Coin cells are exempted from hazardous restrictions. You can ship them any way you want, with no warnings or restrictions. No one seems to be worried about coin cells (US or EU). Not sure why, I guess there have been no incidents.
> 
> But lithium polymer (non-coin) cells contained in products are still subject to restrictions (dangerous goods labels, quantities per container, etc.). This is the category my company's products fall into. It is a pain.
> 
> If at all possible, you'd want to use coin cells. And since that's what fobs currently use, I'd think it's a certainty that'd be what they use.


The short response is that whomever is advising you that primary lithium batteries, (AKA non-rechargeable or lithium metal) such as coin cells, are exempt from regulations is ill informed. As stated ALL lithium batteries are subject to transportation regulation, whether they are lithium-ion (secondary/rechargeable) or lithium metal (primary/non-rechargeable).

The regulations are extensive and voluminous. Some of the determining factors include:

1. Mode of transportation...Air, Ground or Sea
2. Is it a "cell" or is it a "battery". There is a difference
3. What is the Lithium content (or in the case of a secondary cell, what's the lithium equivalent) per cell (a popular Key Fob cell, the CR-2032's lithium content is about .06 grams. 
4. How is the cell/battery being shipped...packaged within an application, with an application or as a stand alone product
5. Is the cell damaged
6. Is it being shipped domestically or internationally
7. The total carton weight (is shipping bulk cells)
8. If by air they cannot go as cargo on a passenger plane
9. Cell or battery quantity per carton

The list goes on and on. In addition to the legal regulations the carriers; FedEx, USPS, UPS etc also have their own requirements/restrictions. And even if it meets the carrier's requirements the pilot can refuse to transport the shipment.

And yes, there have been "incidents" with primary lithium batteries.

For a taste of the regulations you can reference: https://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/dgr/Documents/lithium-battery-shipping-guidelines.pdf

Shipping a fob or two domestically by ground (with the batteries installed) is not too difficult, shipping bulk cells is.

I too know a thing or two about lithium batteries, I've been selling them for >30 years.


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## John

BatterySam said:


> The short response is that whomever is advising you that primary lithium batteries, (AKA non-rechargeable or lithium metal) such as coin cells, are exempt from regulations is ill informed. As stated ALL lithium batteries are subject to transportation regulation, whether they are lithium-ion (secondary/rechargeable) or lithium metal (primary/non-rechargeable).
> 
> The regulations are extensive and voluminous. Some of the determining factors include:
> 
> 1. Mode of transportation...Air, Ground or Sea
> 2. Is it a "cell" or is it a "battery". There is a difference
> 3. What is the Lithium content (or in the case of a secondary cell, what's the lithium equivalent) per cell (a popular Key Fob cell, the CR-2032's lithium content is about .06 grams.
> 4. How is the cell/battery being shipped...packaged within an application, with an application or as a stand alone product
> 5. Is the cell damaged
> 6. Is it being shipped domestically or internationally
> 7. The total carton weight (is shipping bulk cells)
> 8. If by air they cannot go as cargo on a passenger plane
> 9. Cell or battery quantity per carton
> 
> The list goes on and on. In addition to the legal regulations the carriers; FedEx, USPS, UPS etc also have their own requirements/restrictions. And even if it meets the carrier's requirements the pilot can refuse to transport the shipment.
> 
> And yes, there have been "incidents" with primary lithium batteries.
> 
> For a taste of the regulations you can reference: https://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/dgr/Documents/lithium-battery-shipping-guidelines.pdf
> 
> Shipping a fob or two domestically by ground (with the batteries installed) is not too difficult, shipping bulk cells is.
> 
> I too know a thing or two about lithium batteries, I've been selling them for >30 years.


Hmm. I'd think you'd know about button cell exemptions given all of that experience. Maybe it's a semantic argument; all batteries are subject to regulation, but you don't have to mark products with button cells in them, and they can fly in any quantity on air carriers.

Button cells contained in equipment fall under IATA as UN3481 PI 967 Section II.

The relevant text is:

*"A lithium battery mark is not required for packages prepared in accordance with Section II of PI 967 or PI 970 containing only button cell batteries installed in equipment (including circuit boards) or consignments of two packages or less where each package contains no more than four cells or two batteries installed in equipment."*

Note the use of "or" which has remained intact through a couple of versions. So no quantity limitations are in place.

Here's the source:

https://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/dgr/Documents/lithium-battery-guidance-document-2017-en.pdf

My company doesn't use button cells, but I wish we did (or could). We have to put markings on packages, though since ours are so small they can still fly air. Still, if we could use button cells it would even remove that restriction.


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## BatterySam

Yes there are a few very limited exemptions, and yes, my point is all cells/batteries are subject to regulations. They do differ whether you're shipping 1 in a fob or 100K to an OEM. As noted many of the carriers impose their own specific requirements making a difficult situation even harder.

Regulations & requirements are changing (again) in 2019 & 2020 and they won't be easing up. Don't know if you're the OEM of the products you ship or a reseller. What's your limitations to using coin cells...capacity, rate requirements???

Your statement "_Coin cells are exempted from hazardous restrictions. You can ship them any way you want, with no warnings or restrictions. No one seems to be worried about coin cells (US or EU). Not sure why, I guess there have been no incidents." was incorrect. _


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## John

BatterySam said:


> Yes there are a few very limited exemptions, and yes, my point is all cells/batteries are subject to regulations. They do differ whether you're shipping 1 in a fob or 100K to an OEM. As noted many of the carriers impose their own specific requirements making a difficult situation even harder.
> 
> Regulations & requirements are changing (again) in 2019 & 2020 and they won't be easing up. Don't know if you're the OEM of the products you ship or a reseller. What's your limitations to using coin cells...capacity, rate requirements???
> 
> Your statement "_Coin cells are exempted from hazardous restrictions. You can ship them any way you want, with no warnings or restrictions. No one seems to be worried about coin cells (US or EU). Not sure why, I guess there have been no incidents." was incorrect. _


I'm an OEM. Usually the limitation is discharge current, sometimes capacity, sometimes size. Most of our products are very small and use a 120 mAh lithium polymer battery made to our specs that is just 12mm wide and 5mm thick.

Working on our first product to have a coin cell, a super-low-power design that weighs less than a gram.


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## Brokedoc

MelindaV said:


> has it been registered with IC also? (do those show publicly?) the FCC filing would only apply to USA models.


Since the OP, a few more of the doc links have gone live and one of the links shows the label that will be on the bottom of the FOB. It indeed includes the IC registration number so this FOB will be sold/available in Canada as well. The links for the pics will go live on 9/20 but not sure if the pics will tell us if the FOB is for the Model 3. User manual link will go live also so that should tell us which vehicle the new FOB will work with.


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## John

Interestingly, the images and user manual become public on 9/20.

*OET Exhibits Summary List*​​
*15 Matches found for FCC ID 2AEIM-1133148*
Exhibit TypeFile TypeFile SizeDescriptionSubmission DatePermanent
ConfidentialShort-Term 
ConfidentialDate Available​Block DiagramAdobe Acrobat PDF2039992Block Diagram08/03/2018YesNo
Cover Letter(s)Adobe Acrobat PDF224876POA08/03/2018NoNo08/06/2018
Cover Letter(s)Adobe Acrobat PDF136376SDoC Cover Letter08/03/2018NoNo08/06/2018
Cover Letter(s)Adobe Acrobat PDF226238Confidentiality Letter08/03/2018NoNo08/06/2018
External PhotosAdobe Acrobat PDF218831External Photos09/04/2018NoYes09/20/2018
ID Label/Location InfoAdobe Acrobat PDF33378Label Info08/03/2018NoNo08/06/2018
Internal PhotosAdobe Acrobat PDF1122399Internal Photos09/04/2018NoYes09/20/2018
Operational DescriptionAdobe Acrobat PDF43871Operational Description08/03/2018YesNo
RF Exposure InfoAdobe Acrobat PDF130507SAR Exclusion Report08/03/2018NoNo08/06/2018
SchematicsAdobe Acrobat PDF1812564Schematics08/03/2018YesNo
Test ReportAdobe Acrobat PDF1089918Test Report08/03/2018NoNo08/06/2018
Test Setup PhotosAdobe Acrobat PDF673768Test Setup Photos08/03/2018NoYes09/20/2018
Users ManualAdobe Acrobat PDF251573User Manual08/03/2018NoYes09/20/2018
​


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## allanak

No longer speculation!

Go here: https://sms-sgs.ic.gc.ca/equipmentSearch/searchRadioEquipments
Search for HVIN 1133148 and you get one result named "Model 3 key fob"


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## John

allanak said:


> No longer speculation!
> 
> Go here: https://sms-sgs.ic.gc.ca/equipmentSearch/searchRadioEquipments
> Search for HVIN 1133148 and you get one result named "Model 3 key fob"


Great find.


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## Brokedoc

allanak said:


> No longer speculation!
> 
> Go here: https://sms-sgs.ic.gc.ca/equipmentSearch/searchRadioEquipments
> Search for HVIN 1133148 and you get one result named "Model 3 key fob"


Awesome! Mods need to change thread title since Official Canadian site confirms this as Model 3 FOB.

Can someone with contact wit Ranger or service center ask them to look up the part number 1133148 in the database to see if there are any specs, prices, pictures, etc in the Tesla parts database?


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## SoFlaModel3

Brokedoc said:


> Awesome! Mods need to change thread title since Official Canadian site confirms this as Model 3 FOB.
> 
> Can someone with contact wit Ranger or service center ask them to look up the part number 1133148 in the database to see if there are any specs, prices, pictures, etc in the Tesla parts database?


Done!


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## garsh

allanak said:


> No longer speculation!
> 
> Go here: https://sms-sgs.ic.gc.ca/equipmentSearch/searchRadioEquipments
> Search for HVIN 1133148 and you get one result named "Model 3 key fob"


Awesome find!

I'm updating the thread's title to remove "speculation". 

NM - @SoFlaModel3 got to it first.


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## Brokedoc

No need to bother the Mobile Ranger or SvC today. I already asked and the FOB part number is still not in the Tesla computer system.


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## John

Now the question is: do you buy a key fob?
Everyone in my family carries a key card in their purse/wallet (we have 7).
I really enjoy having no keys. Super luxurious (sounds crazy to say that).
I think we will buy at least one for valets/airport parking, assuming they are roughly the normal $235 price.


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## Mike

John said:


> Now the question is: do you buy a key fob?
> Everyone in my family carries a key card in their purse/wallet (we have 7).
> I really enjoy having no keys. Super luxurious (sounds crazy to say that).
> I think we will buy at least one for valets/airport parking, assuming they are roughly the normal $235 price.


Today (on 34.1), the car would not unlock with phone as key FOB after going out for supper and the walk away lock didn't work as well.

Seems like I'm back to resetting Bluetooth anytime I want to use this phone as key fob thing, so..........

I'll pay for a real key FOB that is as reliable as the one I had in my '08 Prius.....


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## John

Mike said:


> Today (on 34.1), the car would not unlock with phone as key FOB after going out for supper and the walk away lock didn't work as well.
> 
> Seems like I'm back to resetting Bluetooth anytime I want to use this phone as key fob thing, so..........
> 
> I'll pay for a real key FOB that is as reliable as the one I had in my '08 Prius.....


We've had as many as three of those Priuses (2008-2009, the best ones) at once. I've probably spent $1000 over the years buying new keys and programming them. If you lose the last key, it's really expensive to replace the security board in the car.

But they do work well.


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## 96s46p

I will be shocked if they are more than $99, they probably cost <$10 to make. I will be annoyed if you need service to add them like keycards.


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## Tom Bodera

96s46p said:


> I will be shocked if they are more than $99, they probably cost <$10 to make. I will be annoyed if you need service to add them like keycards.


For reference a Ford Keyfob cost $200CAD and programming is another $100. DO NOT loose your fob.


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## Mosess

I really hope that this is all just speculation and that Tesla will never make a key fob for the Model 3. It would be going backwards in technology and convenience. I love the fact that i am truly keyless by now with the Model 3 and my smart locks at home and office.


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## John

Mosess said:


> I really hope that this is all just speculation and that Tesla will never make a key fob for the Model 3. It would be going backwards in technology and convenience. I love the fact that i am truly keyless by now with the Model 3 and my smart locks at home and office.


You'll have a choice.


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## 96s46p

Mosess said:


> I really hope that this is all just speculation and that Tesla will never make a key fob for the Model 3. It would be going backwards in technology and convenience. I love the fact that i am truly keyless by now with the Model 3 and my smart locks at home and office.


It will be an optional accessory and they need it for summon to work in Canada.


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## Mike

Mosess said:


> I really hope that this is all just speculation and that Tesla will never make a key fob for the Model 3. It would be going backwards in technology and convenience. I love the fact that i am truly keyless by now with the Model 3 and my smart locks at home and office.


I want a choice. Phone as key FOB has been a crap shoot at best. I hate it.


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## KenF

Tomorrow is the unveiling!


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## Reid M

Mike said:


> I want a choice. Phone as key FOB has been a crap shoot at best. I hate it.


totally agree


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## BostonPilot

Mike said:


> I want a choice. Phone as key FOB has been a crap shoot at best. I hate it.


Yeah, I was talking to a guy at the Drive Electric event. I said something like "what's your luck been with your phone? Does it unlock 90% of the time?". He laughed and said he was lucky if it worked 50% of the time.

I like the idea of the card - the ability to take something waterproof with me when I'm swimming/boating/whatever is a great innovation. But for the rest of the time I'd probably rather have a fob.

When I'm at the grocery store, and it's raining, and my arms are full of groceries, it's really nice to unlock the car from a distance before I make the mad dash to the car. Fumbling with the card while I'm getting soaked doesn't sound like a pleasant experience.


----------



## agastya

Wasn't it today that the other documents were supposed to be released? The *FCC page* mentions it should be available but there are no links on any of these photo documents.

Investigating that page, it does seem that there were 13 documents submitted (test report being #39510*13*). So the FCC link https://fccid.io/ViewExhibitReport.cfm.php?id=39510xx works for the existing ones, but not for the ones that were supposed to be released today.

Hopefully the FCC can get it's act together or someone more proficient can get down those pdfs soon.


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## Trebonius

Seems to be working. You may need to use the "mirror" link or follow the backup link to the actual FCC.gov page, but I can pull up photos and manual PDFs.


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## Diamond.g

Trebonius said:


> Seems to be working. You may need to use the "mirror" link or follow the backup link to the actual FCC.gov page, but I can pull up photos and manual PDFs.


Yup, looks like the S/X fob, which is cool. The user manual is a bit lacking though, lol. Now they just need to start selling it.


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## Edward Reading

So, with the S/X fobs does the car unlock by proximity or do you have to push a button on it?


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## Love

Edward Reading said:


> So, with the S/X fobs does the car unlock by proximity or do you have to push a button on it?


Proximity.

Electrek has pics!
https://electrek.co/2018/09/20/tesla-model-3-key-fob-images/


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## neps

in @agastya 's defense - it wasn't working all day - it just went live tonight. maybe it's after COB on the day mentioned.

Hope they dont charge a ton for this...


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## Edward Reading

Lovesword said:


> Proximity.


Oh that is excellent, I just want something in my pocket that allows me to walk up to the car and open the door EVERY time (like my stupid Toyota minivan)


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## Brokedoc

Although cosmetically similar to my X keyfob, this is simpler. This is the most revealing pic showing only 3 buttons for frunk, doors, and trunk. The X keyfob has 2 more buttons for each falcon door where the window outlines are. Hopefully, this will be cheaper than the X keyfob.


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## SoFlaModel3

Brokedoc said:


> Although cosmetically similar to my X keyfob, this is simpler. This is the most revealing pic showing only 3 buttons for frunk, doors, and trunk. The X keyfob has 2 more buttons for each falcon door where the window outlines are. Hopefully, this will be cheaper than the X keyfob.
> 
> View attachment 14867


Do you recall offhand how much the X fob costs?


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## Diamond.g

To be fair, the 3 used to unlock on proximity as well, but enough early customers complained about the mirrors folding and unfolding Tesla disabled that feature on the 3 (and took the option away to reenable it, which is annoying as those folks could have just turned it off).


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## Brokedoc

SoFlaModel3 said:


> Do you recall offhand how much the X fob costs?


$250 ish comes to mind plus programming fee


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## SoFlaModel3

Diamond.g said:


> To be fair, the 3 used to unlock on proximity as well, but enough early customers complained about the mirrors folding and unfolding Tesla disabled that feature on the 3 (and took the option away to reenable it, which is annoying as those folks could have just turned it off).


I was one of those initially upset, but in the end this was a smart change. I can guarantee that feature was going to lead to a lot of warranty replacements on mirror motors 



Brokedoc said:


> $250 ish comes to mind plus programming fee


Thanks! Too much for a souvenir


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## Diamond.g

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I was one of those initially upset, but in the end this was a smart change. I can guarantee that feature was going to lead to a lot of warranty replacements on mirror motors
> 
> Thanks! Too much for a souvenir


Yeah, if it bothered me a lot I probably would have just turned mirror folding off. Especially now that the car beeps when it locks (though I suppose that would get annoying as well and have to be turned off). My concern is the fob won't fix the charge port sleep unlock issue, and that it is possible the car won't wake up when walking up (same issue as phone unlock). Though it will be faster (pressing button versus opening app).

My fears could be unfounded, will wait and see. Going to ask for a fob for my wife as she is likely to kill her phone battery and doesn't like having to root around in the black hole known as her purse, lol.


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## @gravityrydr

I would prefer the phone if it worked consistently. Working 90-95% of the time is just annoying. I carry an old iPhone 5s without a sim as essentially a key fob. That workes just fine but I think I'll get the fob when it comes out if it's not too expensive.


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## Quicksilver

Brokedoc said:


> $250 ish comes to mind plus programming fee


Wow! that's a bit pricey for a key fob (then again, I am sure other mfgrs fobs are as pricey). If they will price at $150 or less, I may get one; otherwise, not for me. When I took delivery of Quicksilver, my wife asked me how come I didn't get a fob like the Model S we saw at a local store. She really likes the fob.


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## GDN

Sad part about it, this is a $29 object, at most. And as an individual, I should be able to add it to and program it to my own vehicle, I can with Ford, as long as I have two working keys/fobs.


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## Mike

GDN said:


> Sad part about it, this is a $29 object, at most. And as an individual, I should be able to add it to and program it to my own vehicle, I can with Ford, as long as I have two working keys/fobs.


I hope it is standard equipment when PUP is ordered.........


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## GDN

Mike said:


> I hope it is standard equipment when PUP is ordered.........


The manual that has been pulled from the FCC site says the primary way of unlocking the Model 3 is still intended to be the key card or the phone, I figure they are leaving themselves an out for not including from the factory with any level of car. I'm really OK with that, I know this has not been a good experience for some, but I have no need for one at the prices they'll likely charge, so I'm OK if they don't add any extra cost to production of the car.


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## Brokedoc

Mike said:


> I hope it is standard equipment when PUP is ordered.........


My guess will be it will standard only in Canada with EAP (or other countries where required for summon) and an option for everyone else.


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## SoFlaModel3

Quicksilver said:


> Wow! that's a bit pricey for a key fob (then again, I am sure other mfgrs fobs are as pricey). If they will price at $150 or less, I may get one; otherwise, not for me. When I took delivery of Quicksilver, my wife asked me how come I didn't get a fob like the Model S we saw at a local store. She really likes the fob.


I think Mercedes can get you for $1000 these days


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## Jay79

https://electrek.co/2018/09/20/tesla-model-3-key-fob-images/


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## Quicksilver

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I think Mercedes can get you for $1000 these days


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## Tzoid

Good idea to offer.

If your phone works; great use the phone
If you like the card; great use the card
If you like using FOB; great use the FOB
If you want to combo use card, phone FOB; knock yourself out


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## 96s46p

It has both Bluetooth and nfc so presumably it can work as proximity key like a phone, remote like fob, and swipe key like card.


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## slarty

Does anyone know how the fob is going to work in Canada? To use summons, will we be forced to use the fob for summons, or will we only need to have a fob? Are they going to provide them to everyone who has EAP in Canada? I have EAP, and was unpleasantly surprised to find out that it doesn't work for me, even though the order page had it listed as a feature in Canada. I didn't realize it was disabled until I got my car.


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## JasonA

This is a good move by Tesla and a necessary one. I have no issues with my phone connecting, but my wife's phone works maybe 20% of the time and is frustrating her. After Tesla support could not address the issue, we were asked to schedule an appointment with a service center. They are booked out a week plus so she will be using the key card that is kinda annoying. 

My wife needs a fob. I don't. They should include 1 for free to accommodate those that have had issues. Having that little item in your pocket or purse makes driving quite easy in our other cars.


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## MelindaV

slarty said:


> Does anyone know how the fob is going to work in Canada? To use summons, will we be forced to use the fob for summons, or will we only need to have a fob?


canada regulations require you to have a physical fob to remotely control the car, so yes. I don't think there is any point in them requiring you to have it in your possession but not required to actually use it.


slarty said:


> Are they going to provide them to everyone who has EAP in Canada?


nothing has been said as of yet. but we should be hearing something from Tesla soon(-ish).


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## 96s46p

From the "manual"


> This Key fob is used for user that don't want to use phone nor NFC card to unlock their car.
> It contains three bottoms that able to unlock the frunk, door and trunk.


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## slarty

MelindaV said:


> I don't think there is any point in them requiring you to have it in your possession but not required to actually use it.


I agree. However, this is a government regulation, so making sense is not always part of the equation.


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## Doug Joubert

slarty said:


> I agree. However, this is a government regulation, so making sense is not always part of the equation.


@slarty I see you took delivery of your new M3 Performance yesterday. Please fill us in on the beauty of a Performance M3!


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## garsh

96s46p said:


> From the "manual"
> 
> 
> 
> It contains three bottoms that able to unlock the frunk, door and trunk.
Click to expand...


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## slarty

Doug Joubert said:


> @slarty I see you took delivery of your new M3 Performance yesterday. Please fill us in on the beauty of a Performance M3!


It is absolutely incredible in every way, beyond my wildest expectations! I'll post some pix in the delivery forum once I can tear myself away from the car long enough. I spent most of last evening sitting in the car in the garage checking out every option possible, listening to tunes, and every once in a while taking it for a spin around the neighbourhood.


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## Doug Joubert

slarty said:


> It is absolutely incredible in every way, beyond my wildest expectations! I'll post some pix in the delivery forum once I can tear myself away from the car long enough. I spent most of last evening sitting in the car in the garage checking out every option possible, listening to tunes, and every once in a while taking it for a spin around the neighbourhood.


@slarty I am so happy for you! And I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who sits in the car, checks out options, listens to tunes, and takes it for a spin just for the fun of it.


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## PNWmisty

Mike said:


> I want a choice. Phone as key FOB has been a crap shoot at best. I hate it.


Why hate? I would get a phone that worked if I had a phone that didn't work! A new phone doesn't cost much more than a fob. And you never have to buy/replace batteries.


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## PNWmisty

Edward Reading said:


> Oh that is excellent, I just want something in my pocket that allows me to walk up to the car and open the door EVERY time (like my stupid Toyota minivan)


I already have something like that!

It's called a Samsung S8! I carry it around anyway because it's a phone too.


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## Edward Reading

PNWmisty said:


> I already have something like that!
> 
> It's called a Samsung S8! I carry it around anyway because it's a phone too.


You are one of the lucky ones. Obviously it isn't that flawless for everyone or Tesla would not be releasing a fob.


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## PNWmisty

Edward Reading said:


> You are one of the lucky ones. Obviously it isn't that flawless for everyone or Tesla would not be releasing a fob.


I believe the key fob is to comply with Canadian regulations regarding the summon feature. I don't know about "luck", when my wife and I took delivery, both of our phones were hit/miss, very frustrating. The next day or two I adjusted some of the phone settings on each phone and they have both been working flawlessly for the last 4 months (Samsung S8+ and S9).

Even the user's manual for the key fob indicates the car is designed to work seamlessly with a cell phone. This tells me that either people need to configure their phones to prevent Bluetooth from going to sleep (or even into a slow state) or they have phones that don't fully comply with the Bluetooth standards or have loaded third-party apps that have corrupted the Bluetooth stack. If the problem was the software in the car I think I would have been affected after 4 months and multiple firmware updates. Excerpt from the fob user's manual:



> Using your phone is the most convenient way to access your Model 3. As you approach, your phone's Bluetooth signal is detected and doors unlock when you press a door handle.


All you need is a phone that:
1) allows the Tesla app unrestricted access to a compliant Bluetooth radio.
2) Is capable of keeping the Tesla app awake, even when the display "times out" and goes to sleep.


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## Ole1

PNWmisty ... what settings did you have to change on your S8+ ?


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## Mike

PNWmisty said:


> Why hate? I would get a phone that worked if I had a phone that didn't work! A new phone doesn't cost much more than a fob. And you never have to buy/replace batteries.


I never wanted, nor do I need, a smart phone.

The only reason I have it is for use as a key fob for my Model 3 and it has been spotty at best.

The one I use (iPhone 6) was given to me and I have a basic ($10.57/month) "no data" plan that I have been grandfathered with since 2007.

The phone is used for local calls if required and to store my Spotify music.

As for the cost batteries, my Prius smart key fob (that I drove almost 10 years with) required one button cel replacement.


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## Mike

PNWmisty said:


> All you need is a phone that:
> 1) allows the Tesla app unrestricted access to a compliant Bluetooth radio.
> 2) Is capable of keeping the Tesla app awake, even when the display "times out" and goes to sleep.


This is where you and I are philosophically different regarding this topic.

It shouldn't come down to not working with 99.99% certainty because (metaphorically), "I'm not holding it right".


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## PNWmisty

Mike said:


> This is where you and I are philosophically different regarding this topic.
> 
> It shouldn't come down to not working with 99.99% certainty because (metaphorically), "I'm not holding it right".


Wasn't that how Apple excused the poor radio performance of their phones? They blamed it on the user for "not holding it properly". Both our phones have worked 100.00% of the time. I keep mine in my pants pocket, my wife keeps hers in a handbag.


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## PNWmisty

Ole1 said:


> PNWmisty ... what settings did you have to change on your S8+ ?


I couldn't remember all the settings I changed, as I recall, there were three or four. The Samsung/Android menu system is deep and wide and I just methodically went through and switched anything that sounded like it might help. I kept finding new sub-menus. One of them was the setting to keep the Tesla app awake under power settings, I think there was one under Bluetooth settings and I can't remember the other changes. One change that I don't think did anything (but I've left it enabled anyway) was precision location. There was also a setting that controlled how the phone conserved energy when the battery was low.

Surprisingly, all that had a minimal effect on how long my battery goes between charges. Sorry I can't be more specific.


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## Toadmanor

My iPhoneX has never failed to open the car. At least since August 24 when I picked the car up.


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## GDN

Toadmanor said:


> My iPhoneX has never failed to open the car. At least since August 24 when I picked the car up.


Never say never, but will admit, the few times I've had my iPhone X not open the car was when the whole car needed a reboot, or for a short consistent period of time during a SW release and then things improved again with the next car SW release. I think the X is pretty dang good at what it does, but Tesla has messed with settings that can affect it.


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## Mike

PNWmisty said:


> Wasn't that how Apple excused the poor radio performance of their phones? They blamed it on the user for "not holding it properly". Both our phones have worked 100.00% of the time. I keep mine in my pants pocket, my wife keeps hers in a handbag.


Yes, that was the actual case I was using at my attempt at sarcasm to illustrate the hoops one may have to jump through to make the phone as key fob work all the time.


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## 96s46p

FREE?!

https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-key-fob-free-current-owners/


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## SoFlaModel3

96s46p said:


> FREE?!
> 
> https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-key-fob-free-current-owners/


I want it unprogrammed for my desk


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## GDN

I’ve repeatedly said I had no real need for it, but make no mistake I’ll get one to be included for resell of the car some day. 

I can’t wait marine they will want 80K to 100k cars back through a SC to program these. Surely it will be allowed for owner programming.


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## Kizzy

It'll be interesting to see if I can get a key fob before I can use my phone as a key.


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## cmfrazier

I don't think I could go back to using a key! We are thinking about getting a Model X and I was just thinking the other day that I would have to carry a fob again...yuck! Our iPhone X(es) have been 100% reliable since pickup.


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## Mike

cmfrazier said:


> I don't think I could go back to using a key! We are thinking about getting a Model X and I was just thinking the other day that I would have to carry a fob again...yuck! Our iPhone X(es) have been 100% reliable since pickup.


The nice thing is everyone has a choice.

Yesterday I wanted to demo the frunk and it is a PITA to open with the current tools we have, that is why I find I am not using the frunk under day to day scenarios.


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## telero

Mike said:


> Yesterday I wanted to demo the frunk and it is a PITA to open with the current tools we have, that is why I find I am not using the frunk under day to day scenarios.


Can't you just hold the Tesla app icon on the phone and then click the open frunk button on the widget that pops up?


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## Mike

telero said:


> Can't you just hold the Tesla app icon on the phone and then click the open frunk button on the widget that pops up?


I only use this phone as a key fob, portable Spotify player and "telephone"  in case of some sort of roadside emergency.

If I'm at home for the day, the phone gets turned off.

When I'm on the road with it, I have to pull it out of its holster, wake it up with my finger-print and then touch the app and then touch the frunk open icon.

For my edge case, i want the fob with the frunk button on it. Always live and always only one step to activate.


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## RD1965

Hello to all. I just joined this group - out of pure frustration!

So I have owned a 3 for 3 months now, and I am extremely frustrated. Cell phone access is intermittent. Never know when it is going to work. 

A key fob might be the answer. BUT IT BETTER BE FREE FROM TESLA. 

I have an "older" Samsung S6. I am sure Tesla will say it is because of my old phone. Can anyone explain to me why Tesla does not have a micro USB charge cord for the Model 3?


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## Trebonius

RD1965 said:


> Hello to all. I just joined this group - out of pure frustration!
> 
> So I have owned a 3 for 3 months now, and I am extremely frustrated. Cell phone access is intermittent. Never know when it is going to work.
> 
> A key fob might be the answer. BUT IT BETTER BE FREE FROM TESLA.
> 
> I have an "older" Samsung S6. I am sure Tesla will say it is because of my old phone. Can anyone explain to me why Tesla does not have a micro USB charge cord for the Model 3?


They do. It just doesn't come with one by default. https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/produc...-3-phone-charging-cable.html?sku=1116143-00-A


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## babula

RD1965 said:


> Hello to all. I just joined this group - out of pure frustration!
> 
> So I have owned a 3 for 3 months now, and I am extremely frustrated. Cell phone access is intermittent. Never know when it is going to work.
> 
> A key fob might be the answer. BUT IT BETTER BE FREE FROM TESLA.
> 
> I have an "older" Samsung S6. I am sure Tesla will say it is because of my old phone. Can anyone explain to me why Tesla does not have a micro USB charge cord for the Model 3?


There are several threads in this forum regarding phone entry, I suggest you read them.

Also, why not use the card if your phone is not working perfectly?


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## garsh

RD1965 said:


> Can anyone explain to me why Tesla does not have a micro USB charge cord for the Model 3?


Mine came with a Micro-USB instead of USB-C. I'll happily trade for your USB-C if you'd like.


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## Toadmanor

Mine came with a USB C as well as a Micro USB.


----------



## Karl Sun

RD1965 said:


> Can anyone explain to me why Tesla does not have a micro USB charge cord for the Model 3?


 Doesn't everyone already have at least five spare Micro-USB cables lying around?

IMHO why add another?


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## 96s46p

Karl Sun said:


> Doesn't everyone already have at least five spare Micro-USB cables lying around?
> 
> IMHO why add another?


Not that fit properly in the dock port


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## G0GR33N

According to Electrek

Key Fob's are rolling out to a few lucky Model 3 owners who are part of the *Early Access Program*. I guess we will find out soon..

https://electrek.co/2018/10/22/tesla-model-3-key-fob-rollout/


----------



## GDN

The good news from that article. if accurate, is that they can be added and named at home, you don't have to go to a SC to get that done. I'm sure the long term bad news is going to be the price.


----------



## G0GR33N

Well I created a separate discussion for this post as it indicated that a new version *.42 *was coming which would introduce the Key Fob to the lucky winners who got into the Early Access Program..


----------



## GDN

I thought I'd hit the holy grail on Friday night at a Dallas Gallery. I went to test drive an AWD Model 3. It was brand new, only had 16 miles on it, just arrived off the truck. The guy working from the gallery took us down to the car. They had to take stickers and plastic off of it as it hadn't even been prepped yet. He laid several things down he'd been carrying and right on top was a KEY FOB. I picked it up and asked if I could unlock the car with it. He laughed and said yes but it belonged to an S about 3 stalls down. No luck.


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## @gravityrydr

As soon as I saw the key fob was available I ordered it. Stupid me did not read the FAQ. It does not support passive unlock or lock. That was the only reason I wanted it. I'm going to return it and save the money for a new phone when my current one is due to be replaced. I'll keep using my old iPhone 5s without a sim as a key fob. At least that supports passive unlock and lock.


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## 96s46p

@gravityrydr said:


> As soon as I saw the key fob was available I ordered it. Stupid me did not read the FAQ. It does not support passive unlock or lock. That was the only reason I wanted it. I'm going to return it and save the money for a new phone when my current one is due to be replaced. I'll keep using my old iPhone 5s without a sim as a key fob. At least that supports passive unlock and lock.


It's out of stock flip it on eBay for a profit


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## @gravityrydr

96s46p said:


> It's out of stock flip it on eBay for a profit


I figure I'll see if someone wants it here first before returning it. 
https://teslaownersonline.com/threads/model-3-key-fob-for-sale-new.9813/post-174510


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