# Firmware Build v9.0 2019.24.4 73fb1ab (7/19/2019)



## Ze1000

Detected in EU and US Model 3s


----------



## nonStopSwagger

Just installed on my 3. CHAdeMO support, Sketchpad improvements, Owners manual improvements.


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## Emerald AP

Release notes seem to indicate minor/no special advancements. Advanced summon, wither art thou?


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## nonStopSwagger

Also it appears ELDA will no longer turn back on at the start of every trip (msjulie prompted me to check). I just disabled it, put it into drive, then park, then got out and locked the car. Then got back in, and it was still disabled. I believe this notice is now new?


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## nonStopSwagger

Emerald AP said:


> Release notes seem to indicate minor/no special advancements. Advanced summon, wither art thou?


Yeah, Tesla talk a lot about FSD features, but are slow to deliver. They have had advanced summon on their website since march of this year as being part of the current feature set (with stoplight handling and city driving late this year). All of my non tesla owning friends assume my car can already do it.


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## Rogue1

After the install(coming from 20.4.2), I got a screen warning that said my usb 2.0 stick was too slow and the dash cam would be disabled. USB 3.0 sticks wouldn't work for me previously so I decided to give it another try. So now USB 3.0 works perfectly for dashcam. Is this new or did I miss an upgrade somewhere back?


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## Bokonon

nonStopSwagger said:


> Also it appears ELDA will no longer turn back on at the start of every trip (msjulie prompted me to check). I just disabled it, put it into drive, then park, then got out and locked the car. Then got back in, and it was still disabled.


Does ELDA remain disabled after shifting the car into Drive?


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## nonStopSwagger

Bokonon said:


> Does ELDA remain disabled after shifting the car into Drive?


Yes


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## Long Ranger

Rogue1 said:


> After the install(coming from 20.4.2), I got a screen warning that said my usb 2.0 stick was too slow and the dash cam would be disabled. USB 3.0 sticks wouldn't work for me previously so I decided to give it another try. So now USB 3.0 works perfectly for dashcam. Is this new or did I miss an upgrade somewhere back?


I believe the slow drive warning is new, but I've been successfully using a USB 3.1 drive since the dashcam feature was first introduced.


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## JWardell

Emerald AP said:


> Release notes seem to indicate minor/no special advancements. Advanced summon, wither art thou?


Elon said ~Aug 15.


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## Lady Sprite Blue

nonStopSwagger said:


> Also it appears ELDA will no longer turn back on at the start of every trip (msjulie prompted me to check). I just disabled it, put it into drive, then park, then got out and locked the car. Then got back in, and it was still disabled. I believe this notice is now new?
> 
> View attachment 27816


Don't I hope that's the case. ELDA is good on the Interstate but not the back country roads I drive. Looking forward to the update.


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## Lgkahn

Away for summer. Was on 4.2 expecting 4.4 shocked to.see this release. Bummed I'm not home to test it.


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## Kizzy

This update took 30 minutes to install for me. It’s fairly timely as I could maybe make use of a public/shared CHAdeMO adapter if I came across one in an area where I’m desperate for a quick charge while on my road trip (now in progress).


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## JustTheTip

JWardell said:


> Elon said ~Aug 15.


Didn't say what year.


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## tencate

I occasionally try out "autopilot" in my neighborhood which is low speed and pretty darn challenging for it. The behavior in this software release is decidedly different than 20.4.2. It seems much more confident on wide streets with curbs and parked cars now. BUT, it's also quick to just plain give up and flash the red "take over, I'm not doing this" message and then autopilot shuts off. Will experiment some more today. The previous release would hesitate and "wiggle" around in the lane a lot but wouldn't give up so easily. I suspect lots of tinkering behind the scenes in the software on this release.


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## Long Ranger

nonStopSwagger said:


> Also it appears ELDA will no longer turn back on at the start of every trip (msjulie prompted me to check). I just disabled it, put it into drive, then park, then got out and locked the car. Then got back in, and it was still disabled. I believe this notice is now new?
> 
> View attachment 27816


That warning message is exactly the same as in previous versions with one important difference. They've removed the final sentence which read "This setting will reset for the next drive cycle." Looks like they heard @msjulie and others on this one.


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## Michel Contant

somehow with NoA my car now will take left turn after an exit on the highway See map below. my car took both left turn, not the best left turn but still an improvement. Anyone saw this behaviour ?

First for me


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## Craig Bennett

tencate said:


> I occasionally try out "autopilot" in my neighborhood which is low speed and pretty darn challenging for it. The behavior in this software release is decidedly different than 20.4.2. It seems much more confident on wide streets with curbs and parked cars now. BUT, it's also quick to just plain give up and flash the red "take over, I'm not doing this" message and then autopilot shuts off. <edit>.


Interesting. I have to say I prefer it giving control back to me vs trying to kill me while I watch in stark terror.


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## Maynerd

Anyone notice that the picture quality of the back up camera has become worse with this update?


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## Pol Bettinger

Chademo Adapter Support missing in EU. Not that it would be of much use here with CSS... but there are still a few chargers who do only fast charging with Chademo...


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## MelindaV

since installing yesterday afternoon, the car has been idle or charging, but not sleeping. Typically, when in my garage (with sentry off), it will be idle for 1-2 hours then sleep until the set charge time, then immediately sleep again. Last night, awake all night, plus showing some conditioning after charging at some point between 1130p and 530a (while the garage is 70F).


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## RandyS

Success with my Chademo Adapter and the Model 3 this morning on the new Tesla 2019.24.4 software. Charged for a bit at a local eVgo station. One of the old Nissan DC FC units. It said I was pulling 107 amps at 374 volts (40 kW), but the screen inside the car said 33 kW. Hmmm.

The car also said it was getting about 133 miles per hour, and that is about what I got on the Model S as well last time I used the adapter...

Like the Model S, you need to lock the car ("turn it off") before the charging session will successfully start, or you'll get error messages on the charging station....

Thanks, Tesla, for adding support for this adapter...


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## lance.bailey

This be awesome!

curious about the 29 minute vs 1 hour difference in estimates, but still awesome!

Thank you for posting this confirmation.


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## MelindaV

on my drive to work this morning, it seemed it took more torque to steer out of AP at the pothole I avoid each morning on a straight section of freeway. but then further down the freeway, on a curve that AP normally hugs the inside corner (adjacent to another lane of traffic), it popped out of AP with little torque. Previously, both of these would take about the same amount of pressure on the steering wheel.
maybe just a coincidence, or something changed in the steering out of AP behavior.


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## RandyS

lance.bailey said:


> This be awesome!
> 
> curious about the 29 minute vs 1 hour difference in estimates, but still awesome!
> 
> Thank you for posting this confirmation.


29 minutes was how much time was left on the DC FC session...


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## WonkoTheSane

Michel Contant said:


> somehow with NoA my car now will take left turn after an exit on the highway See map below. my car took both left turn, not the best left turn but still an improvement. Anyone saw this behaviour ?
> 
> First for me
> View attachment 27849


Mine has regularly made a right turn at a similar intersection, but it seems only if I use the turn signal to force the "lane change".


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## WonkoTheSane

JustTheTip said:


> Didn't say what year.


The "early access" person I know says Super Summon, or whatever, still isn't ready for prime time. But I saw it in use a few months ago and it looked good to me. Go figure.


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## lance.bailey

I have had the car attempt a left turn for me (i aborted, not expecting the wheel to turn for me as I started started the turn from a stop) - this is at 20.4.

going back further I would get "cannot complete requested manouver" notices when sitting in a turn lane, but stopped due to a light or a vehicle in front. So something is brewing in turn technology.


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## MelindaV

lance.bailey said:


> I have had the car attempt a left turn for me (i aborted, not expecting the wheel to turn for me as I started started the turn from a stop) - this is at 20.4.
> 
> going back further I would get "cannot complete requested manouver" notices when sitting in a turn lane, but stopped due to a light or a vehicle in front. So something is brewing in turn technology.


the quarterly earnings letter mentioned shadow mode for some surface street AP things, so that could be the difference from prior releases.


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## Deadbattery

The file for this is HUGE. Oddly it downloaded last night but did not give me the update message till late this afternoon. 5.2 GIG is the biggest update I have seen.









Sorry the picture is too big


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## MelindaV

Deadbattery said:


> The file for this is HUGE. Oddly it downloaded last night but did not give me the update message till late this afternoon. 5.2 GIG is the biggest update I have seen.
> 
> View attachment 27880
> 
> Sorry the picture is too big


guessing that may have included the Nav update too. Have you check if you Nav version has been updated to 2019.20?


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## victor

MelindaV said:


> guessing that may have included the Nav update too. Have you check if you Nav version has been updated to 2019.20?


Agree, it looks like maps. My update to 24.4 was just 520M.


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## Deadbattery

Thanks, I will look at the Version number.... AFTER the earnings call


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## astrodad

Long Ranger said:


> I believe the slow drive warning is new, but I've been successfully using a USB 3.1 drive since the dashcam feature was first introduced.


I got the slow drive warning multiple times right after installing 2019.24.4. Never seen it prior to this update. Using a USB 3.1 drive that was working fine up to this point. In fact the drive is still recording video despite the repeated warnings. Seems like just a bug that needs to be fixed rather than an update to write speed requirements.


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## GDN

Deadbattery said:


> The file for this is HUGE. Oddly it downloaded last night but did not give me the update message till late this afternoon. 5.2 GIG is the biggest update I have seen.
> 
> View attachment 27880
> 
> Sorry the picture is too big


This link and thread is for you. You'll likely vote Yes !! I don't know how long it takes the car to process them and update the version after the download however.

https://teslaownersonline.com/threads/navigation-data-na-2019-20-10487.13588/post-246231


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## Deadbattery

GDN said:


> This link and thread is for you. You'll likely vote Yes !! I don't know how long it takes the car to process them and update the version after the download however.
> 
> https://teslaownersonline.com/threads/navigation-data-na-2019-20-10487.13588/post-246231


Thanks!


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## shareef777

Summon seems to be messed up on this version. Usually back up into my garage without issue, but now I’d start the process, it’d move a few inches and then state Summon aborted. I’d immediately press reverse and it’d continue a bit more before aborting again. I’d repeat this till the car is parked, never having to step into the car and no obstacles in the way.


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## Deadbattery

MelindaV said:


> guessing that may have included the Nav update too. Have you check if you Nav version has been updated to 2019.20?


Yes, updated to NA-2019-20-10487

(took me longer than I care to admit to find the number) .... click Software on the main selection screen it is smaller font and grayed out just below the Firmware Version number


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## slasher016

This update just failed for me. What's the standard practice to try again? Should I contact mobile service through the app?


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## MelindaV

slasher016 said:


> This update just failed for me. What's the standard practice to try again? Should I contact mobile service through the app?


i contacted my local mobile service guy (by text) and he was able to resend it to my car the next morning with it downloading over LTE. So if you don't already have a specific person to contact, yeah, send the request thru the app.


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## Reliev

victor said:


> Agree, it looks like maps. My update to 24.4 was just 520M.


yeah mine was 509mb


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## Reliev

slasher016 said:


> This update just failed for me. What's the standard practice to try again? Should I contact mobile service through the app?


it should try again in a certain amount of days (I can't remember but it's automatic) I think you can use the app and say you want a push and get it sent to you asap vs have an appointment. I had it fail once and a few days later it gave me the install prompt again.


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## lance.bailey

updated last night and the tunein app lost my favourites from my tunein account. They are still on my app, and still on the website, just not on the Tesla. recently played ones still play, but the favourites page is empty. signed out and back in and did a 2 thumb salute but to no avail.

I'll see if making a change on my favourites forces a refresh on the tesla, but this is annoying as tunein is the only streaming choice across all my platforms. sigh.

(oh, and I got chaDEMO support  )


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## Babar Batla

lance.bailey said:


> updated last night and the tunein app lost my favourites from my tunein account. They are still on my app, and still on the website, just not on the Tesla. recently played ones still play, but the favourites page is empty. signed out and back in and did a 2 thumb salute but to no avail.
> 
> I'll see if making a change on my favourites forces a refresh on the tesla, but this is annoying as tunein is the only streaming choice across all my platforms. sigh.
> 
> (oh, and I got chaDEMO support  )


I have had the issue of favorites disappearing randomly from day one. I forget if it was favorites for streaming, tunein or both. Took it to service center and their solution was to log out from the service so the Tesla account for your car is used instead. That has kept the favorites stable. Downside is that I can't manage favorites from any other place other than the car.


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## lance.bailey

hmph (to Tesla not you). solution is to not use it. <clint>swell</clint>

problem is that I can get at more podcasts via the tunein webpage than the Tesla tunein app. Adding them to my account's favourites let me get at them for the drive into work.

edit: fixed it - In the tesla app I used browse to find a station and then pressed the star to add it as a favourite. After that all the favourites (including the newly added one) appeared. i think that the adding action caused a resync with the tunein mothership.


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## PaulT

This version eliminates the braking before lane switch. It also looks like it predicts people turning better, I.e. if someone is turning right about 200 ft in front of you, it doesn't slam on brakes.


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## NJturtlePower

Rogue1 said:


> After the install(coming from 20.4.2), I got a screen warning that said my usb 2.0 stick was too slow and the dash cam would be disabled. USB 3.0 sticks wouldn't work for me previously so I decided to give it another try. So now USB 3.0 works perfectly for dashcam. Is this new or did I miss an upgrade somewhere back?


I've been using these Samsung USB 3.1 drives since last October with no issues, no warnings, no corruption events on an Anker hub (see my signature).

Currently I have 2 X 32gb, one for TeslaCam and one for music......granted I don't use Sentry mode much, but I've never filled the drive, just deleted it a few times after viewing non-eventful events.




Maynerd said:


> Anyone notice that the picture quality of the back up camera has become worse with this update?


The colors looked a little different to me this morning but I wouldn't call it a quality decrease.

More importantly, the lengthy "black screen" delays I was experiencing on 20.4.2 are gone so far....the camera snaps on instantly when shifting into reverse.


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## lance.bailey

Maynerd said:


> Anyone notice that the picture quality of the back up camera has become worse with this update?


different, but better in my opinion. in a dimly lit covered parkade this morning, just at sunrise so minimal ambient light as well, I noticed a much brighter and better visible camera image when I backed into the spot. It was definitely enhanced over previous revisions.


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## evannole

PaulT said:


> This version eliminates the braking before lane switch.


Yes, I noticed that as well. It resulted in a much more natural lane change... A very welcome enhancement!


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## evannole

lance.bailey said:


> different, but better in my opinion. in a dimly lit covered parkade this morning, just at sunrise so minimal ambient light as well, I noticed a much brighter and better visible camera image when I backed into the spot. It was definitely enhanced over previous revisions.


Yes, agree, brighter with more vivid colors. I wonder if they've applied some kind of HDR processing... Backing out from my dark garage and deck-shaded driveway into the bright street, objects in all three areas, each with different light levels, were all quite clearly visible.


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## lance.bailey

When I parked this morning I checked that Sentry Mode was on (it was) but I could not get it to activate. wandered back to the car, tapped on the hood, wandered around all sides and so on, but no headlight flash and no alert on the screen. Want to test that when I come back home tonight. There should be a few alerts on the screen from passerbys and the such.

I even left my phone on a car hood 30 feet away to see if that made a difference (ie: is it sensing that it is me, so no sentry alert triggered) but still no sentry alert.


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## DocScott

PaulT said:


> This version eliminates the braking before lane switch. It also looks like it predicts people turning better, I.e. if someone is turning right about 200 ft in front of you, it doesn't slam on brakes.


What version were you upgrading from?


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## magglass1

Is anyone else seeing worse lane line detection with this update? I've had issues with it detecting lines covered by tree shadows and also detecting lines after a car cuts me off closely. Had to take over much more than usual on my 1.5 hour drive this morning.


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## PaulT

DocScott said:


> What version were you upgrading from?


I think it was 20.4.2


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## garsh

This build appears to have fixed a minor bug where sentry mode would activate when parked at home/work if you arrived there with under 20% battery and charge the vehicle above 20%, even though you have it configured to never turn on sentry mode in those locations.



garsh said:


> I've had this happen when my battery was below 20%. It would say "Sentry mode deactivated due to battery under 20%". Then while charging, once the battery goes above 20%, sentry mode will activate. But if battery is above 20% to begin with, then sentry mode remains off for me. Strange bug.
> 
> EDIT - yep, just happened again this morning. Battery was at 19% when I arrived at work and plugged in. I noticed a notification on the Tesla app that Sentry mode was deactivated (even though it always should be at work). When I opened the app, it had charged to 21%, and showed Sentry Mode as being active.


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## PaulT

garsh said:


> This build appears to have fixed a minor bug where sentry mode would activate when parked at home/work if you arrived there with under 20% battery and charge the vehicle above 20%, even though you have it configured to never turn on sentry mode in those locations.


Haha, that makes sense! I had same problem with last version. I was wondering why I had record video inside our garage when I was reviewing sentry mode footage.


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## Dave EV

Had my first failure to unlock automatically this morning after updating last night after working flawlessly for at least the last 6 months if not 9. Turning off/on bluetooth on my phone fixed the problem, we'll see if it recurs.

Not sure if it's a phone or car issue at this point, but mentioning it just in case others noticed anything.


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## NJturtlePower

Dave EV said:


> Had my first failure to unlock automatically this morning after updating last night after working flawlessly for at least the last 6 months if not 9. Turning off/on bluetooth on my phone fixed the problem, we'll see if it recurs.
> 
> Not sure if it's a phone or car issue at this point, but mentioning it just in case others noticed anything.


You're not alone Dave.....It was solid (95% of so) for me and then just really went downhill the last few updates with my iPhone 8 and I wouldn't doubt that it's the iOS updates clashing with the Tesla updates.

Embarrassing at times walking to the car with my hands full or with coworkers and having to wake the phone or cycle bluetooth at times.....

I even tried unpairing my phone and repairing while on 20.4.2 which made things no better or worse.

So now I'm on 24.4 with the car and just updated iOS to 12.4 last night....fingers crossed that this will be a solid combo.


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## NEO

The 20.x updates caused my pixel to stop opening the door also. My wife's iPhone X too. So frustrating. I was hoping this update would be better.


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## Deadbattery

NEO said:


> The 20.x updates caused my pixel to stop opening the door also. My wife's iPhone X too. So frustrating. I was hoping this update would be better.


Over the last year + I have had the odd does not work or have to turn off Bluetooth incident but 20.4 was different.

20.4 (for me) was weirdly consistent in requiring me to unlock the phone to unlock the car. I have the face recognition so it was easy. (frankly if this were an option I would leave it on)

24.4 is back to simple proximity unlock.


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## Rogue1

NJturtlePower said:


> I've been using these Samsung USB 3.1 drives since last October with no issues, no warnings, no corruption events on an Anker hub (see my signature).
> 
> Currently I have 2 X 32gb, one for TeslaCam and one for music......granted I don't use Sentry mode much, but I've never filled the drive, just deleted it a few times after viewing non-eventful events.
> 
> 
> The colors looked a little different to me this morning but I wouldn't call it a quality decrease.
> 
> More importantly, the lengthy "black screen" delays I was experiencing on 20.4.2 are gone so far....the camera snaps on instantly when shifting into reverse.


I totally have had no luck with multiple usb 3.0 sticks prior to 24.4. So I have multiple M3's and one hadn't updated just yet so I doubled checked in that one with the same 3.1 and it didn't work. There are so many usb brands available. I just bought a new pny otg 64g. I like the on the go plug feature for the phone.


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## Lady Sprite Blue

Installed 2019.24.4... last night. Release notes are mute about ELDA. However, I checked it first thing (twice) and once ELDA is disabled it stays disabled until activated again. WhooHooo. 🤪


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## JWardell

MelindaV said:


> since installing yesterday afternoon, the car has been idle or charging, but not sleeping. Typically, when in my garage (with sentry off), it will be idle for 1-2 hours then sleep until the set charge time, then immediately sleep again. Last night, awake all night, plus showing some conditioning after charging at some point between 1130p and 530a (while the garage is 70F).


Mine has also refused to go to sleep since yesterday, including 11 hours sitting parked today...but I DON'T have this version. I highly suspect it's because I tried out Teslascope. I don't think its mute/no polling function works right.


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## HCD3

JWardell said:


> Mine has also refused to go to sleep since yesterday, including 11 hours sitting parked today...but I DON'T have this version. I highly suspect it's because I tried out Teslascope. I don't think its mute/no polling function works right.


 Mine also refuses to sleep on 24.4. I've been mucking around Teslafi sleep settings but no luck thus far. No more coffee for my model 3.


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## MelindaV

JWardell said:


> Mine has also refused to go to sleep since yesterday, including 11 hours sitting parked today...but I DON'T have this version. I highly suspect it's because I tried out Teslascope. I don't think its mute/no polling function works right.


The last two nights mine has been back to normal sleeping, and has stayed online as well. Just acted up the first night


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## msjulie

For the first time ever, I rebooted the car after the update cause of hearing so many issues. Haven't fully tried things out but car sleeps fine, camera came right back up w/o any speed warning about the USB and phone approach / walkaway-lock are working. And ELDA is off!


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## NJturtlePower

HCD3 said:


> Mine also refuses to sleep on 24.4. I've been mucking around Teslafi sleep settings but no luck thus far. No more coffee for my model 3.


These have been my default TeslaFi settings for over a year now...I don't mess with them, they work as intended ALMOST always. Even if an update seems to conflict I leave it alone and wait for the next update to resolve itself.


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## HCD3

NJturtlePower said:


> These have been my default TeslaFi settings for over a year now...I don't mess with them, they work as intended ALMOST always. Even if an update seems to conflict I leave it alone and wait for the next update to resolve itself.
> 
> View attachment 27913


Thanks for your settings. I was able to get my 3 to sleep this morning with these settings.


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## HCD3

msjulie said:


> For the first time ever, I rebooted the car after the update cause of hearing so many issues. Haven't fully tried things out but car sleeps fine, camera came right back up w/o any speed warning about the USB and phone approach / walkaway-lock are working. And ELDA is off!


Hi msjulie. I turned off ELDA this morning and it looks like your right. Tesla finally listened to YOU!!


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## NJturtlePower

HCD3 said:


> Thanks for your settings. I was able to get my 3 to sleep this morning with these settings.


IMO the Idle time of 10min is way too low and you'll miss short stops as explained below the setting.

You're not really saving anything meaningful with a low idle considering the vampire drain has been significantly reduced over the past 6+ months via updates. Check your logs and see how little the idle loss is.


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## HCD3

NJturtlePower said:


> IMO the Idle time of 10min is way too low and you'll miss short stops as explained below the setting.
> 
> You're not really saving anything meaningful with a low idle considering the vampire drain has been significantly reduced over the past 6+ months via updates. Check your logs and see how little the idle loss is.


Thanks very much for your advice. The loss while not sleeping is around 3 MPH over 2 hours. I disabled all apps that poll the car by temporarily removing them from my devices, i.e. Stats and Tesla Remote. Let me know what you think about 3 MPH/2 hours. I'm not really concerned about missing data by starting to sleep in 10 minutes. More concerned about Dracula drain. I haven't rebooted the car after this firmware update, and will do so when I leave today.


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## Madmolecule

Minded died on the update. Displayed a Software Update Required error message and Auotopilot stopped working. Tesla Mobile service came by yesterday, did a 12V reset and then it reloaded the update and its back working properly again.


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## Maynerd

evannole said:


> Yes, agree, brighter with more vivid colors. I wonder if they've applied some kind of HDR processing... Backing out from my dark garage and deck-shaded driveway into the bright street, objects in all three areas, each with different light levels, were all quite clearly visible.


I'll have to take a look at lighting and see how it is impacted. I can tell you from a clarity it perspective it was like going from 1080p to 480i, which is pretty nasty these days with my 4k displays at work and at home.


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## dburkland

JWardell said:


> Mine has also refused to go to sleep since yesterday, including 11 hours sitting parked today...but I DON'T have this version. I highly suspect it's because I tried out Teslascope. I don't think its mute/no polling function works right.


Mine shows as "Offline" again in TeslaFi when it is really sleeping, I need to really start doing the two finger salute w/ brake pressed after each update installs...


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## Mr. Spacely

I don't understand all you folks with TeslaFi and other non-proprietary apps. You do know that Tesla provided an app for you? Leave the car alone as designed and it works great...


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## evannole

Maynerd said:


> I'll have to take a look at lighting and see how it is impacted. I can tell you from a clarity it perspective it was like going from 1080p to 480i, which is pretty nasty these days with my 4k displays at work and at home.


Hmm. I have noticed noticed a drop in resolution at all.


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## MelindaV

Mr. Spacely said:


> I don't understand all you folks with TeslaFi and other non-proprietary apps. You do know that Tesla provided an app for you? Leave the car alone as designed and it works great...


I dont think you understand the vast amount of information you can get from the car, that isnt provided with the car's own interface or the Tesla App. I use the data from Teslafi whenever I have a work trip - like this morning I had a site meeting before work. I have the exact time I left my house, arrived to the site, left the site, arrived at work so when filling out my expense report and time for the day, can easily see the time spent at the meeting and driving along with the mileage. not to mention the interesting things like the average temp, HVAC state, estimated gas cost savings, energy cost, elevations, current weather, etc. Where are you finding all of that data in your Tesla App?


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## Mike

dburkland said:


> Mine shows as "Offline" again in TeslaFi when it is really sleeping, I need to really start doing the two finger salute w/ brake pressed after each update installs...


I always remove the USB drive and do a full power down (via reaching into car thru open window and selecting the power down option within safety and security) every time I get a new firmware update.

I got this new version yesterday afternoon and applied my aforementioned routine.

First time ever anomaly: getting into the car this morning, the screen went all black after about three seconds of normal operation. Two finger salute applied and, so far, has not repeated itself.

As an aside: my car had no issue going to sleep last night after the update.


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## TrevP

msjulie said:


> For the first time ever, I rebooted the car after the update cause of hearing so many issues. Haven't fully tried things out but car sleeps fine, camera came right back up w/o any speed warning about the USB and phone approach / walkaway-lock are working. And ELDA is off!


I've generally found a reboot after a firmware update really helps clean out some of "cobwebs". I've found various strange things happen but they're cleared up afterwards.


----------



## enowu

Michel Contant said:


> somehow with NoA my car now will take left turn after an exit on the highway See map below. my car took both left turn, not the best left turn but still an improvement. Anyone saw this behaviour ?
> 
> First for me
> View attachment 27849


It wants to show off to the German ICE cars.


----------



## NJturtlePower

Mr. Spacely said:


> I don't understand all you folks with TeslaFi and other non-proprietary apps.


You're right, you don't


----------



## L. David Roper

RandyS said:


> Success with my Chademo Adapter and the Model 3 this morning on the new Tesla 2019.24.4 software. Charged for a bit at a local eVgo station. One of the old Nissan DC FC units. It said I was pulling 107 amps at 374 volts (40 kW), but the screen inside the car said 33 kW. Hmmm.
> 
> The car also said it was getting about 133 miles per hour, and that is about what I got on the Model S as well last time I used the adapter...
> 
> Like the Model S, you need to lock the car ("turn it off") before the charging session will successfully start, or you'll get error messages on the charging station....
> 
> Thanks, Tesla, for adding support for this adapter...


Thanks for the advice about locking the car
Today I went on to Wytheville VA to try to use the CHAdeMO adapter to charge my TM3LR at the Sheetz station. I could not get it to accept my credit card, so I called the service number and the service lady had me try my Electrify America app and it worked after I locked the car, as you stated that one should do. The large screen on the charger was very hard to read because of the bright Sun. EA needs to put a shade over the screen! Before I plugged in the screen indicated that the power had been reduced for some reason. I got about 20% added to my battery at 42-kW power.


----------



## Rick Steinwand

Tried to leave work today, but door wouldn't unlock until I opened the app and clicked on "unlock". Then it wanted a key card until I opened the app again and retried, then then it was good. I've had good luck with doors unlocking EXCEPT if the app had just updated and I neglected to re-open the app. For the most part, our Pixel 3 phones have been 99% flawless.

We'll see if this is going to continue to be a problem.


----------



## msjulie

Rick Steinwand said:


> Tried to leave work today, but door wouldn't unlock until I opened the app and clicked on "unlock". Then it wanted a key card until I opened the app again and retried, then then it was good. I've had good luck with doors unlocking EXCEPT if the app had just updated and I neglected to re-open the app. For the most part, our Pixel 3 phones have been 99% flawless.
> 
> We'll see if this is going to continue to be a problem.


Every once in a while this has happened to me, on various releases - I always blame the phone as it seems the bluetooth isn't connected but I suppose just as easily the car..


----------



## DocScott

PaulT said:


> I think it was 20.4.2


Most of what you're describing I saw on 20.4.4, which was a _big_ change from previous versions.

I'd tentatively guess that 20.4.4 tried out some of that new behavior, which is why they rolled it out to a wide range of cars but not to everyone, allowing for comparisons of, e.g., disengagement rates.

I've got 24.4 now, and I think AP may be a little different from 20.4.4. 20.4.4 like to change speed by a little bit frequently; 20.4.4 may do that a little less. But in my experience it still executes a lot more anticipatory speed changes than previous versions. For example, I was on a surface street with one lane each way today, with AP on (I know, I know: not a supported situation). There was an ambulance with its light on coming the other way, and a car going in my direction pulled over to the side. (Not sure if the car being pulled over was related to the ambulance or not, since the ambulance was going in the other direction.) AP slowed my car down _slightly_--just a few mph, apparently observing that it had a complicated situation on its hands. A bit after that, I disengaged, because I felt it best to be in control while passing by the car that had pulled over. But it's initial reaction is something I hadn't experienced prior to 20.4.4; before that, either AP didn't change speeds for a situation like that or it decreased speed dramatically and rapidly. This behavior where it slows down a bit out of caution in case it needs to take more action ahead, but then speeds up smoothly once the situation passes is, in my experience, new with 20.4.4 and continues in 24.4.


----------



## rrollens

Have been out of home Wi-Fi coverage for a couple of days. Noticed on the Software page that it now says "Update Available
Please connect to Wi-Fi to download the Software Update". Been home now for a few hours and connected to home Wi-Fi but no update. What gives? Do I need to be doing something more, or do I just need to wait. Appreciate advise.


----------



## ynguldyn

rrollens said:


> Have been out of home Wi-Fi coverage for a couple of days. Noticed on the Software page that it now says "Update Available
> Please connect to Wi-Fi to download the Software Update". Been home now for a few hours and connected to home Wi-Fi but no update. What gives? Do I need to be doing something more, or do I just need to wait. Appreciate advise.


Wait a few days. If nothing happens email/chat customer support, they'll reset the update process for your car.


----------



## ynguldyn

Maynerd said:


> I'll have to take a look at lighting and see how it is impacted. I can tell you from a clarity it perspective it was like going from 1080p to 480i, which is pretty nasty these days with my 4k displays at work and at home.


I'm +1 to the crowd saying it's gotten much better. Specifically, daylight is no different, but lowlight situations are significantly improved: better color reproduction and contrast, less noise. And it definitely has nothing to do with resolution which is a function of camera hardware. They just did something clever in processing the feed.


----------



## Pmurphyjam

This release gets rid of the dancing cars on the left side display when at a stop, plus they’ve enhanced the start and stop animations also. 
Those who don’t already know Tesla also reduced the price of FSD to $3k for those who purchased enhanced auto pilot was $6k. It also seems you don’t get the new HW3 computer unless you purchase FSD, so you’ll be forever stuck on 2.5 HW. Tesla will probably find it difficult to support both computers especially when they do get FSD working. Likely the 2.5 HW will get updated less frequently with fewer features also.


----------



## Steve Martin

Pmurphyjam said:


> This release gets rid of the dancing cars on the left side display when at a stop.


I'm still seeing dancing in this release.


----------



## MelindaV

rrollens said:


> Have been out of home Wi-Fi coverage for a couple of days. Noticed on the Software page that it now says "Update Available
> Please connect to Wi-Fi to download the Software Update". Been home now for a few hours and connected to home Wi-Fi but no update. What gives? Do I need to be doing something more, or do I just need to wait. Appreciate advise.


try reselecting your wifi network (or make sure your car is showing it is connected to your wifi). or turn on a cell phone's broadcast/teathered wifi and connect to it if your home wifi isn't picking up a full signal.


----------



## Flashgj

Pmurphyjam said:


> This release gets rid of the dancing cars on the left side display when at a stop,


Improved, but not gotten rid of completely!

My first stoplight after upgrading had no dancing cars and I thought, wow, they fixed it. But at the next light they were dancing again. I have since noticed that sometimes they dance, sometimes they don't, and sometimes just s little dancing.

Overall I think it is much improved.


----------



## rrollens

MelindaV said:


> try reselecting your wifi network (or make sure your car is showing it is connected to your wifi). or turn on a cell phone's broadcast/teathered wifi and connect to it if your home wifi isn't picking up a full signal.





MelindaV said:


> try reselecting your wifi network (or make sure your car is showing it is connected to your wifi). or turn on a cell phone's broadcast/teathered wifi and connect to it if your home wifi isn't picking up a full signal.


Thanks for the advice from both of you. My Wi-Fi signal is 5 bars in the car, so maybe that is not the issue. Will wait it out for a few days, then contact Tesla. Fortunately, I live 10 minutes from a Service Center. Thanks to all.


----------



## rsf

Flashgj said:


> Improved, but not gotten rid of completely!
> 
> My first stoplight after upgrading had no dancing cars and I thought, wow, they fixed it. But at the next light they were dancing again. I have since noticed that sometimes they dance, sometimes they don't, and sometimes just s little dancing.
> 
> Overall I think it is much improved.


My belief is that dancing cars is a matter of how funky the intersection is.


----------



## JeopardE

My car was unlocking flawlessly for at least 7 months before this update. Now it has failed to unlock twice already. Turning airplane mode on and off on the phone fixes it. Somebody fixed something that wasn't broken here.

And unfortunately auto steer still refuses to see lanes on the left side on Highway 6 in Houston, north of Highway 90. Once you get to 90 it starts to work again. This started since 2019.20.x and is still going on with 24.x. This is my regular commute so it is starting to really annoy me.


----------



## PiperPaul

Madmolecule said:


> Minded died on the update. Displayed a Software Update Required error message and Auotopilot stopped working. Tesla Mobile service came by yesterday, did a 12V reset and then it reloaded the update and its back working properly again.


I'm curious to know what you mean by a "12V reset"?


----------



## Rick Steinwand

PiperPaul said:


> I'm curious to know what you mean by a "12V reset"?


I suspect he/she means unplugging the 12v battery for a few minutes.

It's the ultimate "having the last word" with your Tesla, much better than Ctrl-Alt-Del.


----------



## harrison987

My updated failed THREE times...and it shut off my car. Had to get it towed to Service Center. Turns out this update causes a MAJOR drain on 12V battery..which shuts off the car during the update...something about the voltage dropping during the update (?). They told me the issue was my 12V Lithium battery...not sure how accurate that is.

Anyone else notice a HUGE (BAD) contrast different on their rear back-up cam? When backing out of my garage, it is foggy at the top of the backup screen...and all shadows are MAJORLY dark. Also, a lot of green and purple where dark shadows should be. Camera lens is clean


----------



## harrison987

They also added this sticker under the hood...does this mean anything to anyone?


----------



## rrollens

harrison987 said:


> They also added this sticker under the hood...does this mean anything to anyone?
> View attachment 27956


Yes, it tells First Responders where to go to cut the main power in the car in case of a fire, potential fire, or any other reason they determine the main power to the car from the battery pack needs to be severed.


----------



## GDN

harrison987 said:


> They also added this sticker under the hood...does this mean anything to anyone?
> View attachment 27956


It is a minor point, but they didn't add the sticker, it was already there, it was just hidden under that cowling. When assembled for the first many months those stickers were not pulled out where they could be seen. Assembly now leaves those stickers out and from what I've read and seen most any time a car is in for service it seems that may be one of the things they check and they pull the sticker out so it can easily be seen.


----------



## harrison987

I have actually had that panel off many times, and have never seen it...wiiiiiiiiiierdd...

Makes sense to have it shown and obvious though...


----------



## Rick Steinwand

harrison987 said:


> My updated failed THREE times...and it shut off my car. Had to get it towed to Service Center. Turns out this update causes a MAJOR drain on 12V battery..which shuts off the car during the update...something about the voltage dropping during the update (?). They told me the issue was my 12V Lithium battery...not sure how accurate that is.


How big (capacity) is your lithium battery compared to stock? Since your Tesla is designed to charge non-lithium battery, possibly your battery wasn't fully charged?


----------



## Gabzqc

rrollens said:


> Thanks for the advice from both of you. My Wi-Fi signal is 5 bars in the car, so maybe that is not the issue. Will wait it out for a few days, then contact Tesla. Fortunately, I live 10 minutes from a Service Center. Thanks to all.


Its a 5gb download in size.. might take some time...


----------



## Gabzqc

This update broke my Bluetooth connection between phone and car for calls and media... Unlocking working fine, but the calling connection breaks and reconnects every 5 seconds... Making a phone conversation impossible... Need to try a hard reset (power off button)


----------



## Maynerd

harrison987 said:


> My updated failed THREE times...and it shut off my car. Had to get it towed to Service Center. Turns out this update causes a MAJOR drain on 12V battery..which shuts off the car during the update...something about the voltage dropping during the update (?). They told me the issue was my 12V Lithium battery...not sure how accurate that is.
> 
> Anyone else notice a HUGE (BAD) contrast different on their rear back-up cam? When backing out of my garage, it is foggy at the top of the backup screen...and all shadows are MAJORLY dark. Also, a lot of green and purple where dark shadows should be. Camera lens is clean
> View attachment 27955


Yup I noticed a drop in PQ of the rear back up video when I took this update.


----------



## JeopardE

Maynerd said:


> Yup I noticed a drop in PQ of the rear back up video when I took this update.


I think there was a change to the video codec used to encode from the autopilot cameras. This update seems to have also temporarily broken a couple of TeslaCam viewer apps although I think they're updated now. Would explain why the picture looks different. I noticed the difference immediately, not necessarily worse on mine - colors just looked more saturated.


----------



## DocScott

JeopardE said:


> I think there was a change to the video codec used to encode from the autopilot cameras. This update seems to have also temporarily broken a couple of TeslaCam viewer apps although I think they're updated now. Would explain why the picture looks different. I noticed the difference immediately, not necessarily worse on mine - colors just looked more saturated.


I'm not sure whether it's the firmware update or the camera got jostled, but for me the field of view is subtly different than it used to be. The backup camera now shows a little bit of the trunk and license plate. It could easily be that it's being cropped differently than before, or it could just be that my camera's alignment is a little different than it used to be.


----------



## GDN

DocScott said:


> I'm not sure whether it's the firmware update or the camera got jostled, but for me the field of view is subtly different than it used to be. The backup camera now shows a little bit of the trunk and license plate. It could easily be that it's being cropped differently than before, or it could just be that my camera's alignment is a little different than it used to be.


They can change that through software. Before I got a car, so early 2018, there were reports of the backup camera looking more like a fish eye lens. They've tweaked and modified this view a few times in the past.


----------



## MelindaV

harrison987 said:


> They also added this sticker under the hood...does this mean anything to anyone?
> View attachment 27956


the factory added that - it likely was just tucked under the plastic.


----------



## ColoDriver

Anyone else having radio issues on 24.4?
Ever since the update selecting an over the radio station causes the spinning wheel of death. This morning it defaulted to a radio station, but the left scroll wheel would not change between stations and it wouldn't let me select stations using the screen. USB and streaming works fine. Tried the two finger reboot with no luck. Next up is the full powerdown reset.


----------



## tivoboy

ColoDriver said:


> Anyone else having radio issues on 24.4?
> Ever since the update selecting an over the radio station causes the spinning wheel of death. This morning it defaulted to a radio station, but the left scroll wheel would not change between stations and it wouldn't let me select stations using the screen. USB and streaming works fine. Tried the two finger reboot with no luck. Next up is the full powerdown reset.


I DO get garbled audio on some streaming channels, sounds like someone is trying to fast forward. A switch between streaming channels, doesn't really fix it, it stays the same. I THINK it might actually be the channel on the streaming side.


----------



## evannole

I have done 3 interstate commutes of ~25 miles each since getting 24.4. EAP behavior seems significantly better. Effectively no phantom braking; I experienced a very minor, extremely brief slowdown this morning, but I think it was because of a car it saw that it thought might have been coming into my lane as we went around a curve. That's very acceptable behavior. No issues with shadows or overpasses despite bright sunshine.

Lane changes are better and more confident now as well, and are very quick if the coast is completely clear. I did notice a slight slowdown when I signaled for a lane change into an occupied lane, as it waited for the car in the target lane, which was moving a but more quickly, to move forward. But it wasn't a bad slowdown. Overall, I am quite pleased, and am hoping that this improved behavior continues.

I am excited about the improved highway autopilot behavior that's supposed to be coming in V10, per Elon. V9, 2019.24.4 is already a pretty good starting point, based on what I have seen since Thursday.


----------



## PaulT

harrison987 said:


> They also added this sticker under the hood...does this mean anything to anyone?
> View attachment 27956


That thing flaps around on highway making annoying sounds. I folded it in half and fixed it.


----------



## garsh

NoA doesn't seem much different to me.
I just drove the whole way across PA on the turnpike and had two phantom braking events.


----------



## GDN

PaulT said:


> That thing flaps around on highway making annoying sounds. I folded it in half and fixed it.


You know - this just might make a few people happy. I have not ever heard this tag making a noise or thought about it, but there are a few people that have reported a ticking or noise coming from the area of the VIN plate in the dash. This sticker is just right in front of that area under the Frunk. This could be the source of the noise they are hearing. I'll have to search for that other thread and see if this might be something they can try to fix their noise.

For reference this is the thread - https://teslaownersonline.com/threads/rattling-noise-on-vin-plate.12874/post-234763


----------



## Perscitus

harrison987 said:


> My updated failed THREE times...and it shut off my car. Had to get it towed to Service Center. Turns out this update causes a MAJOR drain on 12V battery..which shuts off the car during the update...something about the voltage dropping during the update (?). They told me the issue was my 12V Lithium battery...not sure how accurate that is.


Odd. Zero issues here (with a LiFePO4) and no special 12V drain before/during or after the update to 24.4. Car wasn't plugged in as the update downloaded and applied, coincidentally at a Tesla SC using their Guest WiFi. 


harrison987 said:


> They also added this sticker under the hood...does this mean anything to anyone?


This should've been on there from factory, either yours was hidden under the plastic shroud or they added it or added it back after working in the frunk area and realizing its not there. BAU as others explained. If you flip it over you'll see some more info. Leave it exposed like that in case Fire Depts ever need to see it.


----------



## SimonMatthews

evannole said:


> I have done 3 interstate commutes of ~25 miles each since getting 24.4. EAP behavior seems significantly better. Effectively no phantom braking; I experienced a very minor, extremely brief slowdown this morning, but I think it was because of a car it saw that it thought might have been coming into my lane as we went around a curve. That's very acceptable behavior. No issues with shadows or overpasses despite bright sunshine.
> 
> Lane changes are better and more confident now as well, and are very quick if the coast is completely clear. I did notice a slight slowdown when I signaled for a lane change into an occupied lane, as it waited for the car in the target lane, which was moving a but more quickly, to move forward. But it wasn't a bad slowdown. Overall, I am quite pleased, and am hoping that this improved behavior continues.
> 
> I am excited about the improved highway autopilot behavior that's supposed to be coming in V10, per Elon. V9, 2019.24.4 is already a pretty good starting point, based on what I have seen since Thursday.


I don't have EAP, only the basic AP, but 24.4 does seem to be smoother.

Last week (20.4), I had to intervene because my car was not slowing down when there was stationary traffic ahead and the car was traveling at "freeway speed". Had the road been slightly slippy, I would probably have rear-ended the stationary traffic. Scary. This week (24.4), in an almost similar scenario, at almost the same place, my car slowed down early and gently.


----------



## aronth5

The 3 items of improvement I've noticed when driving on the highway.

Lane changes happen more quickly especially when manually initiated. A good thing
In stop and go traffic their is less delay when the car in front of me starts to move again.
When driving in the right hand lane on the highway when the car in front of me takes the exit my car doesn't slow down and then suddenly speed up like it used to. Cannot remember what version this poor behavior was introduced in but glad its gotten somewhat better. Still room for improvement.
The bad

 On NoA the car still wants to move to a faster lane when I'm a mile or so away from the exit in heavy traffic. I always cancel the lane change. Drives me crazy!
 Approaches exit ramps far too fast compared to how I normally drive. I've taken over many times since I'm not sure whether the car will take the exit or fly by and I don't want to find out.
 In general I would prefer it get to the lane closest to the exit ramp when I'm within 1.5 to 2 miles from the exit, especially in traffic.
 Adjusting the distance setting doesn't appear to have much affect in more recent releases I'd like to actually notice the distance change from the car in front of me when I change the distance setting.


----------



## sduck

SimonMatthews said:


> I don't have EAP, only the basic AP, but it does 24.4 seem to be smoother.
> 
> Last week (20.4), I had to intervene because my car was not slowing down when there was stationary traffic ahead and the car was traveling at "freeway speed". Had the road been slightly slippy, I would probably have rear-ended the stationary traffic. Scary. This week (24.4), in an almost similar scenario, at almost the same place, my car slowed down early and gently.


This is how it's always been - the car will slow down if it detects slow moving vehicles ahead, but if the cars are at a complete stop, it won't, but will do the last minute alarm and panic attempt at a stop, which hopefully you've caught ahead of time because otherwise it's a terrible way to wake up. In your second scenario I suspect there was at least one vehicle that was still moving a bit ahead that the car detected.


----------



## MelindaV

sduck said:


> ... but if the cars are at a complete stop, it won't [detect them]


not always the case. most mornings coming up to the freeway, on a surface street using TACC, coming up to a light with cars already at a stop, it will recognize them and slow accordingly (this is on a 40MPH street). Likewise, my freeway commute often comes up to stopped cars far enough ahead that AP isn't 'tracking' them. Always ready to step on the break, and most all the time it starts to slow right as Im ready to step on the brake.


----------



## garsh

MelindaV said:


> not always the case.


That's great to know. But still important for people to realize that it won't always detect stationary vehicles, and to be prepared to take over in those cases.


----------



## MelindaV

garsh said:


> That's great to know. But still important for people to realize that it won't always detect stationary vehicles, and to be prepared to take over in those cases.


being ready to take over at any time is implied any time using AP

my point was to clarify the "it won't stop" comment I was replying to. it certainly "can stop" for stopped cars. that doesn't mean someone should trust that it will.


----------



## wackojacko

aronth5 said:


> The 3 items of improvement I've noticed when driving on the highway.
> 
> Lane changes happen more quickly especially when manually initiated. A good thing
> In stop and go traffic their is less delay when the car in front of me starts to move again.
> When driving in the right hand lane on the highway when the car in front of me takes the exit my car doesn't slow down and then suddenly speed up like it used to. Cannot remember what version this poor behavior was introduced in but glad its gotten somewhat better. Still room for improvement.
> The bad
> 
> On NoA the car still wants to move to a faster lane when I'm a mile or so away from the exit in heavy traffic. I always cancel the lane change. Drives me crazy!
> Approaches exit ramps far too fast compared to how I normally drive. I've taken over many times since I'm not sure whether the car will take the exit or fly by and I don't want to find out.
> In general I would prefer it get to the lane closest to the exit ramp when I'm within 1.5 to 2 miles from the exit, especially in traffic.
> Adjusting the distance setting doesn't appear to have much affect in more recent releases I'd like to actually notice the distance change from the car in front of me when I change the distance setting.


Try adjusting the speed based lane changing, I reduced mine to the mild setting and it reduced this from happening, not completely stop it from moving away from the up coming exit but improved it.


----------



## lance.bailey

I had someone wave her hands at me with a WTF message after auto change had zipped back and forth in front of her. I don't really blame her. I was on standard lane changes not the "Mad Max" setting, but it sure made her mad.


----------



## aronth5

wackojacko said:


> Try adjusting the speed based lane changing, I reduced mine to the mild setting and it reduced this from happening, not completely stop it from moving away from the up coming exit but improved it.


I already have it set to mild. Still does it too frequently.


----------



## PiperPaul

harrison987 said:


> My updated failed THREE times...and it shut off my car. Had to get it towed to Service Center. Turns out this update causes a MAJOR drain on 12V battery..which shuts off the car during the update...something about the voltage dropping during the update (?). They told me the issue was my 12V Lithium battery...not sure how accurate that is.
> 
> Anyone else notice a HUGE (BAD) contrast different on their rear back-up cam? When backing out of my garage, it is foggy at the top of the backup screen...and all shadows are MAJORLY dark. Also, a lot of green and purple where dark shadows should be. Camera lens is clean
> View attachment 27955


Agree that the rear camera display has changed both for colour (more washed out in bright light) and for field of view (now showing the back of the car as in your picture).
This seems to be an odd "improvement".


----------



## lance.bailey

i've always (Dec 2018) seen the back bumper in the camera. I use it when backing into a spot with no cars in the spot behind me and only the left-right line marking to indicate when the back bumper is at the line. Very accurate.

as for the image being washed-out/bad-resolution/brighter/whatever, I agree that there is a change, but I can see more details and less shadows in the field and I find it better for knowing what I am backing toward.

The volvo has 360 degree overview cameras and has a nasty practice of darkening the display when it sees fit. One place where it sees fit is when I am halfway into the garage. sigh. i'll be driving into the garage and suddenly the display gets dark because the sensor is in the dark garage. If I back into the garage it is not an issue as the sensor is outside until the last couple of inches.


----------



## Metz123

I'm seeing significantly more phantom brake events on 24.4 even with just TACC on, no autosteer or NOA enabled. In fact I had 8-10 phantom brake events on a 100 mile trip that I make almost every weekend, where before I would have none. It got so annoying and unsafe that I turned off TACC entirely. It appeared to be interpreting large vehicles coming the opposite direction (2 lane road, i know, not supported) as being in front of me and performed hard braking. 

With autosteer turned on I felt like it was back to the default of preferring the inner part of the lane instead of the outer. Again, I'm not comfortable hugging the inner 1/3rd on a 2 lane road. 

This is one of those times where I wish we had the option to drop back to a previous release.


----------



## tivoboy

I have to say, I have had the oppossite experience to what many have reported here.

Either manual or NOA based lane changes are SO bad, they are really not usuable. Even in relatively light traffic. 

I'll be on 280 (our northern california autobahn) travelling bout 75, and pass a car, get about 4-6 lengths ahead of said car and hit the RIGHT blinker. Half the time the car tries to DECELERATE about 10 MPH, before doing nothing and then ACCELERATE again and do the lane change. Time to completion. 20-30 seconds.

Or, the car just sits there, blinking, 1, 2, 3, 8 times, and then SLOWLY starts the lane change. 

It would appear it's WORSE on curves, SLIGHT curves mind you - this use to be MUCH better. Now, its pretty much all the time. It's just SO timid and cautious. And in this case for really NO reason. god HELP us if it was LA or Chicago or something where there was a lot more traffic, it would NEVER change lanes.

We're SO far away from FSD, it's silly.


----------



## undergrove

I just pulled the SD card from my Model 3 that has been in since before the update from 20.4.2 to 24.4. There is a significant difference:

Before 24.4 in Sentry Mode recordings there were frequent 0 Byte files or completely absent files, mainly on one or both of the side cameras. Since 24.4 in more than a dozen files there have been no 0 Byte files. There were still a very few that are not 0 Byte but still will not play. Every minute is present and has a file for all three cameras.

Also in 24.4 there is much less pixel degredation in the side cameras in static images with little movement because of too few key frames. It is not completely gone, but it occurs less often.

It is still not perfect, but 24.4 seems to be significantly better with Sentry Mode files. I'd like to know if anyone else has seen this kind of improvement.


----------



## astrodad

astrodad said:


> I got the slow drive warning multiple times right after installing 2019.24.4. Never seen it prior to this update. Using a USB 3.1 drive that was working fine up to this point. In fact the drive is still recording video despite the repeated warnings. Seems like just a bug that needs to be fixed rather than an update to write speed requirements.


I continued to get write speed warnings over subsequent drives, so used a faster writing USB drive (380MB/sec v. 180MB/sec) and that seems to have solved the problem.


----------



## ColoDriver

Radio update: A full powerdown reboot from the menu appears to have resolved my over the air radio issues.
There's still the too loud volume when unmuting the radio issue (not streaming or USB).


----------



## tivoboy

It would appear that at LEAST in this build, (if not possibly the prior build, didn't test) that if one is BELOW 20% SOC when plugging in to charge, it apparently WILL allow one to turn ON SENTRY MODE even below 20% SOC. It makes sense, since well ITS CHARGING, but prior it wouldn't do it, in the app at least the slider would force/slip back to the OFF state. I just noticed this this morning when starting at 47 miles SOC, and it allowed to enable SM from the app.

Oh yeah, and BACKUP CAM looks like c..p


----------



## lance.bailey

I really don't understand all the complaints about the backup cam being washed out. What I see is more items in the view and less loss to shadows. I agree it is more washed out than before, but I'm seeing more items.

the backup cam is not for Mr. DeNiro being ready for his close up .... it's for seeing things you might run over, including the little shadowy things. 

not kvetching, just not understanding....


----------



## evannole

lance.bailey said:


> I really don't understand all the complaints about the backup cam being washed out. What I see is more items in the view and less loss to shadows. I agree it is more washed out than before, but I'm seeing more items.
> 
> the backup cam is not for Mr. DeNiro being ready for his close up .... it's for seeing things you might run over, including the little shadowy things.
> 
> not kvetching, just not understanding....


Completely agree. I don't need to see individual grains of sand in the street, but am glad that nothing disappears into the shadows now, at least by daylight. I haven't driven at night enough to have noticed how the camera works in dark conditions under 24.4.


----------



## tivoboy

lance.bailey said:


> I really don't understand all the complaints about the backup cam being washed out. What I see is more items in the view and less loss to shadows. I agree it is more washed out than before, but I'm seeing more items.
> 
> the backup cam is not for Mr. DeNiro being ready for his close up .... it's for seeing things you might run over, including the little shadowy things.
> 
> not kvetching, just not understanding....


I think we may be talking about two different things. In the latest build, my backup cam has gone to so over saturated, that in the early morning the gain is so high that 50-70% of the represented color is gone. then, when it becomes a bit lighter out, the contrast and saturation go up so much that the distinction between two different colors is BLURRED. It's not a question of grains of sand or photo realistic imagery, but its just so washed out now from either side of the lighting perspective.


----------



## lance.bailey

i'm not talking/thinking about resolution either - i'm talking about gain/contrast/sat as well, which now would suck for a family portrait, but for backing into a spot in a covered or underground parkade is now much improved. At least for me


----------



## SalisburySam

I’ve been happy with 24.4 since update six days ago; I’ve not experienced anything untoward as others have reported, and I considered myself lucky. And then there was yesterday’s drive. Took a 30-mile all Interstate drive yesterday and 24.4 rebelled with a vengeance. Traffic was light, early afternoon so daylight, clear sky, dry road, using all the auto-goodies. A few miles into the drive I experienced the first phantom braking on this firmware. So here we go again with my ABC approach to such events: Annoyance, Bug report, Continue. Then the car shifted lanes to the right and we were in an exit-only lane and not at the right exit. It figured this out apparently and then lane-shifted back into the previous lane, to both my and the driver behind me’s confusion. Again the ABC’s. Then within the next 10 miles, 4 more abrupt and harsh phantom braking events. This time it was three ABC’s and a final ABD: major Annoyance, Bug Reports for each event, then Disconnect. Finished the drive without incident.

Regardless of what new games and other teasers we get from V10, this phantom braking habit has to go away for good. At this point I really no longer care nor have any empathy for how hard it is to solve...just do it already. And the beta cop out is tiresome at this point.


----------



## Metz123

SalisburySam said:


> I've been happy with 24.4 since update six days ago; I've not experienced anything untoward as others have reported, and I considered myself lucky. And then there was yesterday's drive. Took a 30-mile all Interstate drive yesterday and 24.4 rebelled with a vengeance. Traffic was light, early afternoon so daylight, clear sky, dry road, using all the auto-goodies. A few miles into the drive I experienced the first phantom braking on this firmware. So here we go again with my ABC approach to such events: Annoyance, Bug report, Continue. Then the car shifted lanes to the right and we were in an exit-only lane and not at the right exit. It figured this out apparently and then lane-shifted back into the previous lane, to both my and the driver behind me's confusion. Again the ABC's. Then within the next 10 miles, 4 more abrupt and harsh phantom braking events. This time it was three ABC's and a final ABD: major Annoyance, Bug Reports for each event, then Disconnect. Finished the drive without incident.
> 
> Regardless of what new games and other teasers we get from V10, this phantom braking habit has to go away for good. At this point I really no longer care nor have any empathy for how hard it is to solve...just do it already. And the beta cop out is tiresome at this point.


Completely agree. At some point in time the reliability of the system takes priority over adding anything new. If you can't solve the reliability problem, the value of the system becomes zero.

Internally I wonder if this is Musk's arrogant insistence that vision systems alone can "solve" the self driving problem without reliance on other types of imaging like LIDAR. Unless Tesla can fix their phantom brake issue, the value of TACC, autosteer, and the future of FSD are all moot. It's still a great car but it's no longer a technology play and Tesla's lead over the traditional ICE competitors becomes manufacturing (SOC), electronic components and a willingness to break the traditional car mold rather than automated driving.


----------



## Mike

Since running this version, the handoff from Spotify on my phone to streaming it thru the cars stereo system is no longer reliable.

I have had to force the car to recognize the phone (no issues with phone as key FOB) a number of times.

Or, the music will play for literally half a second and then go silent, with the UI showing that there is no source available. 

Detailed message to Tesla has been sent.


----------



## teletype

I use NoA heavily on my commute, but almost always take over at interchanges since it would go slow enough to annoy me and the person behind me. The steering was very herky-jerky through cloverleaf ramps as well. Yesterday on my commute, I was paying attention to the road in front of me, but was a little spaced out and didn't think to take over for the I-90 to I-95 interchange. I was pleasantly surprised when it handled it smoothly and at a reasonable speed much closer to how I'd drive. 

This is a sample size of one, but I'll definitely be trying again. Anyone else notice an improvement here?


----------



## evannole

Alas, I spoke too soon with regard to phantom braking on 24.4. This morning, it was back - not hugely so but enough to be annoying.

Here's hoping that Elon's reference to "improved Autopilot on the highway" includes the virtual elimination of this problem. I really could not care less about new features at this point. I just want this one to work properly. My wife's 2016 Volvo XC60 has only cameras and radar, and while its TACC is not as good as Tesla's when Tesla's is working properly, it also has never once exhibited phantom braking.

I am *this close* to springing for the HW3 upgrade for $3,000 while I still can. While I don't really care about FSD, I do think that HW3 will probably make EAP perform better and might eliminate phantom braking completely. On the other hand, I am reluctant to blindly part with my money when this problem keeps happening - and, frankly, if HW3 is required to get EAP working properly and as advertised, with no phantom braking, then the upgrade should be provided free of charge.


----------



## msjulie

Metz123 said:


> Completely agree. At some point in time the reliability of the system takes priority over adding anything new. If you can't solve the reliability problem, the value of the system becomes zero.


I continue to wonder if for 'controlled access roads'* that adding in peer-to-peer communication between vehicles is needed to really be trusted and safe. Only cooperating vehicles can be on some roads..

*what I mean by controlled access is any road or lanes? that have been designated for smart communicating vehicles. Can't trust other people, bicycles or pedestrians, horses, etc really and will any car ever really be safe enough to drive where non-smart transit is going?


----------



## MelindaV

msjulie said:


> I continue to wonder if for 'controlled access roads'* that adding in peer-to-peer communication between vehicles is needed to really be trusted and safe. Only cooperating vehicles can be on some roads..
> 
> *what I mean by controlled access is any road or lanes? that have been designated for smart communicating vehicles. Can't trust other people, bicycles or pedestrians, horses, etc really and will any car ever really be safe enough to drive where non-smart transit is going?


and how do you keep the non-smart communicating vehicles out of that road/lane? on my commute, there is a 3 mile stretch of HOV that is to be restricted for 3 hours a day (3p-6p) monday-friday. It is the only HOV section of freeway in all of Oregon, and i sit in the adjacent lane each afternoon watching 3/4 of the cars in that lane being single people.


----------



## msjulie

MelindaV said:


> and how do you keep the non-smart communicating vehicles out of that road/lane? on my commute, there is a 3 mile stretch of HOV that is to be restricted for 3 hours a day (3p-6p) monday-friday. It is the only HOV section of freeway in all of Oregon, and i sit in the adjacent lane each afternoon watching 3/4 of the cars in that lane being single people.


Same here in Bay Area, lots of car pool scofflaws

Re controlled access: I don't imagine it would be easy to get any of this done as the lanes can't be easy enough to drive into. My comment was more about my faith in smart cars and less-smart humans actually successfully on the same roads happening as soon as we might wish


----------



## SimonMatthews

Has anyone relied on AutoPilot to take their car through the narrow lanes in the toll plaza at one of the bridges in the SF Bay area, or similar?


----------



## JeanDeBarraux

evannole said:


> Alas, I spoke too soon with regard to phantom braking on 24.4. This morning, it was back - not hugely so but enough to be annoying.
> 
> Here's hoping that Elon's reference to "improved Autopilot on the highway" includes the virtual elimination of this problem. I really could not care less about new features at this point. I just want this one to work properly. My wife's 2016 Volvo XC60 has only cameras and radar, and while its TACC is not as good as Tesla's when Tesla's is working properly, it also has never once exhibited phantom braking.
> 
> I am *this close* to springing for the HW3 upgrade for $3,000 while I still can. While I don't really care about FSD, I do think that HW3 will probably make EAP perform better and might eliminate phantom braking completely. On the other hand, I am reluctant to blindly part with my money when this problem keeps happening - and, frankly, if HW3 is required to get EAP working properly and as advertised, with no phantom braking, then the upgrade should be provided free of charge.


I'm not sure if I'm on HW2.5 or HW3 (I read somewhere all European M3s are on HW3, but this needs to be confirmed), but since I upgraded to 2019.24.4, I've started seeing the "phantom braking" others have reported. Every time this happened was after I had just passed a bicycle. This hadn't happened before.



SimonMatthews said:


> Has anyone relied on AutoPilot to take their car through the narrow lanes in the toll plaza at one of the bridges in the SF Bay area, or similar?


I actually have let the car drive through the toll plaza once or twice since the upgrade and it worked fairly well, even though the lane marking are completely absent. Both times, the car stuck to the left lane and followed the car in front through the toll plaza.


----------



## tivoboy

Metz123 said:


> Completely agree. At some point in time the reliability of the system takes priority over adding anything new. If you can't solve the reliability problem, the value of the system becomes zero.
> 
> Internally I wonder if this is Musk's arrogant insistence that vision systems alone can "solve" the self driving problem without reliance on other types of imaging like LIDAR. Unless Tesla can fix their phantom brake issue, the value of TACC, autosteer, and the future of FSD are all moot. It's still a great car but it's no longer a technology play and Tesla's lead over the traditional ICE competitors becomes manufacturing (SOC), electronic components and a willingness to break the traditional car mold rather than automated driving.


It does bring up a point I've made here before. Why not just get SOME of the things right and REALLY RIGHT first, then move on to the much more lofty aspirations like FSD? I have the feeling they have the huge aspirational goal out there, since they've told customers they can do it, since they've told THE STREET they will do it by X, since they've built a lot of their value and appeal on at some date, X, being able to have the car go from A (insert any point in the USA) to B (insert a different point in the USA) all on it's own. Forget the regulatory implications - which I've said before are going to take much longer than current projections, but it's the MOST complicated solve to do.

Why not just NOA (or at a minimum TACC with lane changes) REALLY rockin'!. If I as a driver could be confident that 99% of the time the car on the highway, could do 100% of the driving, up to and including gettting over close to my exit, that would be MUCH better than what we have now. I'm just not satisfied or frankly confident in the cars ability AND CONFIDENCE to make appropriate lanes changes, take approprirate initiative, accelerate when it's needed, de-celerate when that is a better solve for the objective or current situation and just do the damb driving.

I have the feeling that the above answer/solve is being lost in the objective to solve it all (FSD) and it's having a negative impact on just getting the basics right.


----------



## tivoboy

SimonMatthews said:


> Has anyone relied on AutoPilot to take their car through the narrow lanes in the toll plaza at one of the bridges in the SF Bay area, or similar?


Uh, ZERO chance I would try that.. there are concrete medians there that would create some serious damage to a rim, easily and often. I'd also be VERY concerned that the car might mis-interpret the sudden prescence of the toll both, on either side and make a last second sudden adjustment - into the OTHER side of the toll booth.

I wonder if Tesla is even testing this out as a feature to offer?


----------



## Mr. Spacely

SimonMatthews said:


> Has anyone relied on AutoPilot to take their car through the narrow lanes in the toll plaza at one of the bridges in the SF Bay area, or similar?


I live in Florida and have taken my car through narrow tool plazas on AutoPilot with "SunPass" toll reader at 30-40 MPH hundreds of times without incident. The car will disengage out of NOA and go to regular Auto Pilot through the booth and then reengage. Pretty slick...


----------



## Metz123

msjulie said:


> I continue to wonder if for 'controlled access roads'* that adding in peer-to-peer communication between vehicles is needed to really be trusted and safe. Only cooperating vehicles can be on some roads..
> 
> *what I mean by controlled access is any road or lanes? that have been designated for smart communicating vehicles. Can't trust other people, bicycles or pedestrians, horses, etc really and will any car ever really be safe enough to drive where non-smart transit is going?


I think about this a lot as I drive around. I look at driving scenarios that humans handle with relative ease and question if any automated systems can ever really infer what is going on and ever be able to effectively duplicate the human driver.

A perfect example is a car making a left hand turn about 100 yards in front of you. I can see the gaps in traffic, I can infer when the driver will make the left hand turn and I can be prepared should they decide not to go through a gap in traffic and decide not to make the turn and vacate my lane. All the computer sees is a car stopped 100 yards in front of me. I will maintain speed up to a point where I know/don't know if they are going to take the turn, if they do vacate the lane through an anticipated traffic gap, I can continue at speed and smoothly. The computer just brakes, then accelerates based on an obstacle or not. No inference or contextual knowledge applied and a much rougher trip.


----------



## Daryl

Metz123 said:


> A perfect example is a car making a left hand turn about 100 yards in front of you. I can see the gaps in traffic, I can infer when the driver will make the left hand turn and I can be prepared should they decide not to go through a gap in traffic and decide not to make the turn and vacate my lane. All the computer sees is a car stopped 100 yards in front of me. I will maintain speed up to a point where I know/don't know if they are going to take the turn, if they do vacate the lane through an anticipated traffic gap, I can continue at speed and smoothly. The computer just brakes, then accelerates based on an obstacle or not. No inference or contextual knowledge applied and a much rougher trip.


This is exactly a what I have seen and thought about too. I see that car turning in front of me and I can tell immediately that it will clear my path well before I get there, but currently autopilot cannot tell that. It just sees an object in my lane and slams on the brakes.

Hopefully with further training of neural network and maybe needing HW3, this situation can also be correctly interpreted.


----------



## Ze1000

tivoboy said:


> It does bring up a point I've made here before. Why not just get SOME of the things right and REALLY RIGHT first, then move on to the much more lofty aspirations like FSD? I have the feeling they have the huge aspirational goal out there, since they've told customers they can do it, since they've told THE STREET they will do it by X, since they've built a lot of their value and appeal on at some date, X, being able to have the car go from A (insert any point in the USA) to B (insert a different point in the USA) all on it's own. Forget the regulatory implications - which I've said before are going to take much longer than current projections, but it's the MOST complicated solve to do.
> 
> Why not just NOA (or at a minimum TACC with lane changes) REALLY rockin'!. If I as a driver could be confident that 99% of the time the car on the highway, could do 100% of the driving, up to and including gettting over close to my exit, that would be MUCH better than what we have now. I'm just not satisfied or frankly confident in the cars ability AND CONFIDENCE to make appropriate lanes changes, take approprirate initiative, accelerate when it's needed, de-celerate when that is a better solve for the objective or current situation and just do the damb driving.
> 
> I have the feeling that the above answer/solve is being lost in the objective to solve it all (FSD) and it's having a negative impact on just getting the basics right.


The phrase that has been said and repeated by Elon:
"Don't let the perfect prevent the better"
Even though I get frustrated with some features not working perfectly, I do remember when I first drove the model S 2017. I can also remember when I got my 3 on May 2018. What an evolution!!! Can't complain that it is not getting better every day. I can complain that it is not evolving as fast as Elon time.


----------



## tencate

Ze1000 said:


> Even though I get frustrated with some features not working perfectly, I do remember when I first drove the model S 2017. I can also remember when I got my 3 on May 2018. What an evolution!!! Can't complain that it is not getting better every day. I can complain that it is not evolving as fast as Elon time.


and back in late 2017, things were downright scary! I too am extremely impressed with the progress made. The other day the car needed to get off at an exit and traffic was heavy. Much to my surprise it noticed a gap, signaled, and pulled right in. Me? I would've signaled and waited patiently while some kind soul let me in. Or not.


----------



## DocScott

Metz123 said:


> I think about this a lot as I drive around. I look at driving scenarios that humans handle with relative ease and question if any automated systems can ever really infer what is going on and ever be able to effectively duplicate the human driver.
> 
> A perfect example is a car making a left hand turn about 100 yards in front of you. I can see the gaps in traffic, I can infer when the driver will make the left hand turn and I can be prepared should they decide not to go through a gap in traffic and decide not to make the turn and vacate my lane. All the computer sees is a car stopped 100 yards in front of me. I will maintain speed up to a point where I know/don't know if they are going to take the turn, if they do vacate the lane through an anticipated traffic gap, I can continue at speed and smoothly. The computer just brakes, then accelerates based on an obstacle or not. No inference or contextual knowledge applied and a much rougher trip.


I think this kind of contextual knowledge has gotten better in the last few updates. It's still far, far short of a human, but it's anticipating more things than it used to. For example, consider a car ahead of me, travelling slower than I am, that was changing lanes from the lane to my left to the lane to my right (likely to exit). AP used to be really bothered in that scenario--the slow-moving car crossing in front made it think there was an obstacle, and it would slow down and stay slowed down for quite a while after the car had cleared the lane. But not anymore. Now it correctly recognizes that the car is going to clear out of my lane before I get there.

Similarly, it has no trouble anymore with someone going at my speed who changes in to my lane and stays there, even if the car hasn't left me a lot of room. A context-free system would think "I'm too close!" and slam on the brakes. But AP now does what a good driver would do, and figures the spacing is likely to work itself out soon enough, and that slamming on the brakes is worse for everyone than just allowing the closer follow distance for a few seconds.

I'm not sure FSD will ever be able to match the inference capabilities of a human. But it will have faster reflexes and 360 degree vision. It may not need to match a human's inference ability in order to be a safer driver overall than a human.


----------



## Mr. Spacely

Metz123 said:


> A perfect example is a car making a left hand turn about 100 yards in front of you. I can see the gaps in traffic, I can infer when the driver will make the left hand turn and I can be prepared should they decide not to go through a gap in traffic and decide not to make the turn and vacate my lane. All the computer sees is a car stopped 100 yards in front of me. I will maintain speed up to a point where I know/don't know if they are going to take the turn, if they do vacate the lane through an anticipated traffic gap, I can continue at speed and smoothly. The computer just brakes, then accelerates based on an obstacle or not. No inference or contextual knowledge applied and a much rougher trip.


What matters the most in FSD is getting me safely from my home to grandmother's house. I really don't care if there is a bit of unnecessary braking. Over time the system will get smoother...


----------



## MelindaV

noticed something slightly different last night driving home when I got to my exit.
With TACC engaged, going from the 55MPH freeway to the long exit offramp, AP/TACC has always incrementally stepped down the speed in 5mph increments on the offramp down to 25MPH. But last night as I came to the bottom of the offramp and to the red light (nobody ahead of me), with the set speed showing as 25MPH, it came to a stop at the light! while in the past, it would slow but if nobody was ahead of me at the light, it would not actually stop. 
Now, as a disclaimer, the light is at the end of the offramp with a curve to the left, with a large planter to the right, and there was a car stopped in the left lane - so it is possible it was picking up either the mass of the planter or the car to the left when it decided to stop. but I've come up to this light in the past with the same car to the left but not ahead in my lane and it would have continued thru the intersection.


----------



## Metz123

Mr. Spacely said:


> What matters the most in FSD is getting me safely from my home to grandmother's house. I really don't care if there is a bit of unnecessary braking. Over time the system will get smoother...


Tell that to my wife who gets car sick due to the unnecessary braking that autopilot currently provides. She'll bear with it for the initial part of a trip and eventually asks that i turn it off and drive manually.


----------



## Mr. Spacely

@MelindaV On the Tesla.com Model 3 Forum someone just posted a video of their car stopping by itself on AP at a red light and displaying a small traffic light on the monitor where the speed limit sign usually is!

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/ap-stopping-red-light


----------



## DocScott

Mr. Spacely said:


> @MelindaV On the Tesla.com Model 3 Forum someone just posted a video of their car stopping by itself on AP at a red light and displaying a small traffic light on the monitor where the speed limit sign usually is!
> 
> https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/ap-stopping-red-light


I'm curious if this feature will now be in place for those with AP or EAP but not FSD. I'd guess it will be.

And that goes back to something I keep saying--features announced for FSD keep leaking down in to EAP and AP.

The conundrum, as I see it, is that even AP can be activated in a very wide variety of situations, including surface streets. Since that's the case, not having it, e.g., react to stoplights will eventually be seen as a safety issue. Therefore, even if you don't have FSD, once FSD properly reacts to stop lights AP will have to as well. They could try to make it so it reacts more unpleasantly to stop lights somehow (a kind of emergency braking), but that would cause its own safety risks, so instead they'll end up just making it stop on its own, whether you have AP or FSD. The only difference, I predict, is that on AP that will likely result in a disengagement.


----------



## MelindaV

DocScott said:


> Therefore, even if you don't have FSD, once FSD properly reacts to stop lights AP will have to as well.


or they disable AP from being used on surface streets

but in theory, what we have currently for AP (or those with EAP) will be what it is for those without the FSD option. So why would Tesla have to open up more options to that set of users for local roads? if that is the case, what would be the point in PAYING for FSD?


----------



## lance.bailey

had my Model 3 attempt a left turn for me today while navigating home (EAP, FSD not running NOA at that moment only AP). I was behind a stopped car at a red light and I could tell it was going to try the turn on it's own as the blue lines were clearly curving to follow the upcoming left turn.

it failed at the left turn, but probably no worse than my first left turn attempt 40 years ago.


----------



## MelindaV

MelindaV said:


> noticed something slightly different last night driving home when I got to my exit.
> With TACC engaged, going from the 55MPH freeway to the long exit offramp, AP/TACC has always incrementally stepped down the speed in 5mph increments on the offramp down to 25MPH. But last night as I came to the bottom of the offramp and to the red light (nobody ahead of me), with the set speed showing as 25MPH, it came to a stop at the light! while in the past, it would slow but if nobody was ahead of me at the light, it would not actually stop.
> Now, as a disclaimer, the light is at the end of the offramp with a curve to the left, with a large planter to the right, and there was a car stopped in the left lane - so it is possible it was picking up either the mass of the planter or the car to the left when it decided to stop. but I've come up to this light in the past with the same car to the left but not ahead in my lane and it would have continued thru the intersection.


exact same conditions tonight, and TACC didn't slow (below 25mph) or stop for the red light.


----------



## DocScott

MelindaV said:


> or they disable AP from being used on surface streets
> 
> but in theory, what we have currently for AP (or those with EAP) will be what it is for those without the FSD option. So why would Tesla have to open up more options to that set of users for local roads? if that is the case, what would be the point in PAYING for FSD?


It's similar to the difference between FSD (which is for now just EAP) and AP now. FSD/EAP includes NOA, which means it will initiate lane changes and take interchanges.

So this is what I predict will happen:

Eventually AP will be officially extended to surface streets. At that point, FSD will initiate turns, either when using NOA or by using the turn signal from an appropriate lane, but AP will not do either (i.e. turns will need to be done manually). But AP will be fully functional while driving down the street. I'm not sure what will end up happening with red lights on AP. One possibility is that AP would stop at the red light, but then the driver would have to tap the accelerator when the light turned green again to reengage TACC.

Another thing FSD will eventually do and regular AP will never do is drive without anyone in the car. Enhanced Summon is the first example of that.

Basically, I expect AP to be about safety, and FSD to be about convenience.

If I'm wrong about that, then these are the alternatives:

1. Tesla could, as you suggest, disable AP on surface streets. They'd have every right to do so, as that's always been an "off-label" use of AP. But that would make people mad, and if Tesla felt that autonomy had developed sufficiently so that AP on surface streets was safer than a human driving, it would be iffy to take away something that had just become a safety feature.

2. Tesla could kind of freeze AP behavior in its current state, and not have it take advantage of the improvements that those with FSD will see. That seems to be what a lot of people on this forum are assuming will happen, but it's very weird. Do we really think that if, for example, FSD gets better at recognizing what pedestrians are likely to do that AP won't see the same benefit? Since the FSD firmware will be there whether or not it is unlocked, that gets very dicey very fast. If the car "knew" it was risking hitting someone but didn't do anything about it because the driver hadn't paid for FSD...yikes!

Are there other alternatives I'm missing?


----------



## MelindaV

Not running down pedestrians would fall under AP safety features, that everyone, even without AP/EAP/FSD driver assistance add ons would get.


----------



## SalisburySam

Another day, more disappointment with TACC on 24.4. Short Interstate trip about 30 miles each way. 5 phantom braking events outbound, 3 more inbound. Bug reports each time. This the second trip in as many days and phantom braking is the worst it has ever been for me. Sadly, TACC is necessary to use any of the other auto-goodies so everything has to be cancelled to cancel the TA portion of TACC. I don’t know what the solution is other than avoidance and that’s not why I bought EAP/FSD with the vehicle. I hope this dramatically improves with the next firmware, at least to the point in 20.4 which wasn’t nearly as bad as 24.4.


----------



## francoisp

Mr. Spacely said:


> @MelindaV On the Tesla.com Model 3 Forum someone just posted a video of their car stopping by itself on AP at a red light and displaying a small traffic light on the monitor where the speed limit sign usually is!
> 
> https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/ap-stopping-red-light


Tesla keeps hammering to keep our hands on the wheel and be prepared to take over at any time. I agree with that and my own experience vouch for this. Elon Musk has mentioned that in its initial release FSD will require a driver's full attention. That said I am wondering how this will work for red lights. Consider this: the car is 500 feet from an intersection going at 35 mph and the traffic light light turns red. At that point, my question/concern is going to be: has the car detected the red light and how do I know it did? At what point should I take over and hit the brake pedal because we're getting closer to the intersection and I'm thinking that maybe the car won't stop. To be honest, as a precautionary measure, I would end up hitting the brake too early thus disengaging AP/FSD. For my peace of mind, at least initially, I may need a visual/audible cue indicating that the car has detected the red light ahead of time so I can be confident the car will handle it.

Here is the youtube video link:


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## reallove

OK - so I'm not crazy. Just noticed this exact behavior: AP engaged (but not NoA), or just TACC even. Putting the turn signal makes the car slow down by 10 Mph, even in a completely empty traffic. This is some really bad regression.



tivoboy said:


> I have to say, I have had the oppossite experience to what many have reported here.
> 
> Either manual or NOA based lane changes are SO bad, they are really not usuable. Even in relatively light traffic.
> 
> I'll be on 280 (our northern california autobahn) travelling bout 75, and pass a car, get about 4-6 lengths ahead of said car and hit the RIGHT blinker. Half the time the car tries to DECELERATE about 10 MPH, before doing nothing and then ACCELERATE again and do the lane change. Time to completion. 20-30 seconds.
> 
> Or, the car just sits there, blinking, 1, 2, 3, 8 times, and then SLOWLY starts the lane change.
> 
> It would appear it's WORSE on curves, SLIGHT curves mind you - this use to be MUCH better. Now, its pretty much all the time. It's just SO timid and cautious. And in this case for really NO reason. god HELP us if it was LA or Chicago or something where there was a lot more traffic, it would NEVER change lanes.
> 
> We're SO far away from FSD, it's silly.


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## LucyferSam

I've had no autopilot issues on this update, though I've only used it for about 80 miles. I continue to envy the people for whom autopilot stays in fast lanes until close to the exit as for me NOA has and continues to try to get into the exit lane at least 2 miles before my exit despite there being several entrances still in between with people merging slowly and just generally slow traffic - I would normally not get over into that lane until the last 1/2-3/4 mile after the last entrance before my exit.

This update did break one of the most important functions in the entertainment system for me - it no longer resumes USB music playback reliably when I get back in the car. It seems like if the car goes to sleep it breaks playback resume.


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## NR4P

Something positive about 2019.24.x

The Sentry home location sleeping bug is fixed.

Before 2019.24.x even though the Home Location may have been excluded, Sentry being on by default kept the vehicle from sleeping.
Over a month ago a Tesla tech disclosed to me that the bug would be fixed in 2019.24. 
For past 3 weeks I have done some testing with Sentry. I can confirm that if Sentry is left on permanently and Home is excluded, after about 30-45 mins since the car is parked, it will go to sleep. That accessory port will power down.

At first I didn't think it was fixed but I have noted that the car stays awake for the A/C to run about 20 mins after parking and then once the fan quits, a short time later the car does sleep. I put a light in the accessory socket and checked it and can confirm the bug was corrected.

Overnight drain is back to well under 1%. The 2-4% overnight drain is gone, due to Sentry left in on state, even with home excluded.

I don't have 2019.28.x yet so hopefully it stays fixed.


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## garsh

During my last roadtrip, I noticed Autopilot having an issue when passing certain offramps on I86 in western New York.

Right at the offramp, the car will hit regen and pull to the right. It lasts for just a fraction of a second - maybe 1/10 of a second - but it's startling. It goes right back to following the lane correctly afterwards.

I'm not entirely sure why this only happened when passing some offramps but not others. The ones where it happened did not have a lot of "lane" before they veer away. I believe they all looked similar to this:


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## GDN

garsh said:


> During my last roadtrip, I noticed Autopilot having an issue when passing certain offramps on I86 in western New York.
> 
> Right at the offramp, the car will hit regen and pull to the right. It lasts for just a fraction of a second - maybe 1/10 of a second - but it's startling. It goes right back to following the lane correctly afterwards.
> 
> I'm not entirely sure why this only happened when passing some offramps but not others. The ones where it happened did not have a lot of "lane" before they veer away. I believe they all looked similar to this:
> 
> View attachment 28110


Is there a chance some of them didn't have the dashed line on the right? You remember any one of them in particular? The dashed line issue was bad early on, but they seemed to have conquered this at least in TX, . It still has a problem with an onramp though, it wants to move to the right and split the distance until the lane closes back up from the entrance.


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## undergrove

SalisburySam said:


> Another day, more disappointment with TACC on 24.4. Short Interstate trip about 30 miles each way. 5 phantom braking events outbound, 3 more inbound. Bug reports each time. This the second trip in as many days and phantom braking is the worst it has ever been for me. Sadly, TACC is necessary to use any of the other auto-goodies so everything has to be cancelled to cancel the TA portion of TACC. I don't know what the solution is other than avoidance and that's not why I bought EAP/FSD with the vehicle. I hope this dramatically improves with the next firmware, at least to the point in 20.4 which wasn't nearly as bad as 24.4.


For those having trouble with phantom braking, I am going to repeat my suggestion to try setting the Speed Limit Offset to -20. This changes the behavior on initializing TACC or AP--it sets and maintains the speed at the time of initialization. It does not change speed when the speed limit indicator changes.

The disadvantage is that you must change the cruise speed manually with the scroll wheel.

The advantage is that we have virtually no phantom braking episodes. (I can't say no episodes, because there is one approximately 200 ft place on the I-5 in Santa Clarita where there has been a massive reconstruction for over a year. The speed indicator drops briefly to 45 from 65 and the car does slow down. Everywhere else speed limit changes have no effect).

We long ago adopted this setting, because we live in farm country, and a lot of our travel is on winding 2 lane country roads. We find that Autosteer works very well on them, but the default speed limit most places is 55. Because of occasional houses with children & pets, farm equipment, and critters (rabbits, squirrels, skunks, turkey vultures, coyotes, etc.), it is usually not safe to travel that fast, especially at night. Having to whip the scroll wheel down every time we set AP was not acceptable.

So we live with the inconvenience of having to change the cruise speed manually, but we seem to have avoided phantom braking almost entirely,

Again, if you are troubled with phantom braking, try the -20 setting. You might like it.

For us, everything else about AP and NOA has improved steadily and dramatically since we got our Model 3 last September.


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## Mike

High speed run from Bowling Green KY back to Southfield MI today.

Used NOA and/or autopilot about 3% of the time and TACC about 10% of the time.

Several phantom braking issues.

Wish I had dumb cruise control.


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## francoisp

undergrove said:


> For those having trouble with phantom braking, I am going to repeat my suggestion to try setting the Speed Limit Offset to -20. This changes the behavior on initializing TACC or AP--it sets and maintains the speed at the time of initialization. It does not change speed when the speed limit indicator changes.
> 
> The disadvantage is that you must change the cruise speed manually with the scroll wheel.
> 
> The advantage is that we have virtually no phantom braking episodes.


This is how I've set mine and I regularly experience phantom brakings. I should mention that it mainly happens driving around town, not on major highways.


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## undergrove

FrancoisP said:


> This is how I've set mine and I regularly experience phantom brakings. I should mention that it mainly happens driving around town, not on major highways.


I should clarify that by "phantom braking" I mean that there is no explanation due to interaction with nearby cars. I use TACC frequently on L.A. surface streets, often in heavy traffic, and do not experience anything I would call phantom braking. Generally, reaction to nearby cars has gotten much smoother, although occasionally there is a somewhat sudden reaction in unusual circumstances. Generally this seems to bee due to an overabundance of caution--which I think is a net plus. I keep my foot near the accelerator and brake in this kind of driving.

I generally feel much safer with TACC or AP in appropriate circumstances--my eyes plus the Teslas eyes and sensors seems far superior than just me alone.

Careful, alert attention is always necessary. This is 3x true of the dumb cruise control on our Prius, which I do not use on city surface streets and must use even more carefully on highways & freeways.


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## sduck

LucyferSam said:


> This update did break one of the most important functions in the entertainment system for me - it no longer resumes USB music playback reliably when I get back in the car. It seems like if the car goes to sleep it breaks playback resume.


This. They finally got it fixed, and now it's broken again. At least it's still mostly usable, unlike before. I've been sending them bug reports on this every time it happens. And it's not sleep mode that causes it, at least for me - it's more random than that.


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## JeanDeBarraux

DocScott said:


> Basically, I expect AP to be about safety, and FSD to be about convenience.


But what about EAP?


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## Mike

High speed run from Southfield MI to Batawa ON today.

552 kms in 5+28 (block to block).

I tried something different today.....I used autopilot for 85% of the run, with some caveats: 

I never used NOA,
Manual induced lane changes to the right (with resulting momentary phantom braking) were simply overridden with mashing the go fast pedal,
I always increased speed when pulling into and using the left lane for passing, and
My cruise speed of 119 kph was often infringed upon with slower traffic.....and I just chilled out and let it do its thing. Although slower than my history with this car, 119 kph seemed to be the sweet spot for a somewhat smooth flow with traffic.
-----------

One thing I would like to see when the list of nearest superchargers is called upon is the following additional information:

a simple arrow pointing to its direction relative to my position, and
the current ETE and distance to each of those same listed superchargers.
When that list is brought up and kept up so one can actively monitor the stall availability of the planned supercharger, the list must continue to update. It currently freezes the information so it remains static.

The above observations took place because the nav system had originally planned for me to stop (at Cambridge ON) with about 20% range remaining and I forced the situation and drove to a point farther east with 5% range upon arrival (at Winston Churchill Blvd).


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## LucyferSam

sduck said:


> This. They finally got it fixed, and now it's broken again. At least it's still mostly usable, unlike before. I've been sending them bug reports on this every time it happens. And it's not sleep mode that causes it, at least for me - it's more random than that.


I should say sleep always causes it for me, I think it happens a bit more randomly as well, but I'm not sure if has been asleep at all on some of the random times even if it's not asleep when I get in.


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## zosoisnotaword

undergrove said:


> I just pulled the SD card from my Model 3 that has been in since before the update from 20.4.2 to 24.4. There is a significant difference:
> 
> Before 24.4 in Sentry Mode recordings there were frequent 0 Byte files or completely absent files, mainly on one or both of the side cameras. Since 24.4 in more than a dozen files there have been no 0 Byte files. There were still a very few that are not 0 Byte but still will not play. Every minute is present and has a file for all three cameras.
> 
> Also in 24.4 there is much less pixel degredation in the side cameras in static images with little movement because of too few key frames. It is not completely gone, but it occurs less often.
> 
> It is still not perfect, but 24.4 seems to be significantly better with Sentry Mode files. I'd like to know if anyone else has seen this kind of improvement.


I was going strong for a while, but I just reviewed my saved/recent folders, and I am now getting mostly 1kb files for all cameras. Even my recent files where I was driving are 1kb. Maybe 1 out of 5 of the saved Sentry events from the last three days are complete files.


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## Gabzqc

zosoisnotaword said:


> I was going strong for a while, but I just reviewed my saved/recent folders, and I am now getting mostly 1kb files for all cameras. Even my recent files where I was driving are 1kb. Maybe 1 out of 5 of the saved Sentry events from the last three days are complete files.


You could try a reboot?
IMO its time they updated the sentry mode, and included rear camera! I have been bumped/kissed twice back there and have no proof as cameras were not recording, even with sentry mode on!


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## Mike

On the run down to Bowling Green KY last weekend, we noticed this stub of information when expanding the details of the active route:










In Canada (IRCC) it says 130m.

Is this a placeholder for the final leg distance from a (final trip leg) exit to the actual supercharger pump itself?


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## jcpetit

harrison987 said:


> My updated failed THREE times...and it shut off my car. Had to get it towed to Service Center. Turns out this update causes a MAJOR drain on 12V battery..which shuts off the car during the update...something about the voltage dropping during the update (?). They told me the issue was my 12V Lithium battery...not sure how accurate that is.
> 
> Anyone else notice a HUGE (BAD) contrast different on their rear back-up cam? When backing out of my garage, it is foggy at the top of the backup screen...and all shadows are MAJORLY dark. Also, a lot of green and purple where dark shadows should be. Camera lens is clean
> View attachment 27955


What kind of 12v Lithium battery were you using ?


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