# Firmware Version Numbers



## Vin (Mar 30, 2017)

Hypothetical question  if you skipped 8.3 and go beyond that, from 15.5 do you still get the features from the previous (like 8.3 for example)? I assume each update includes everything before it but not 100% sure. Where would stop light warning feature be displayed in settings for example?


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Vin said:


> Hypothetical question  if you skipped 8.3 and go beyond that, from 15.5 do you still get the features from the previous (like 8.3 for example)? I assume each update includes everything before it but not 100% sure.


No, not necessarily. These "build numbers" are not strictly sequential feature-wise. It's just a date on which the build was cut.

I believe that 2019.8.3 means that this is the 3rd build created from a snapshot of the main branch taken during the 8th week of the year 2019. I would expect 2019.8.3 to contain all the features found in 2019.8.1 and 2019.8.2, and that this last number is used to differentiate the inclusion of smaller bug fixes. But build 2019.5.15 could very well contain some features not found in 2019.8.3.


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## Long Ranger (Jun 1, 2018)

Vin said:


> Hypothetical question  if you skipped 8.3 and go beyond that, from 15.5 do you still get the features from the previous (like 8.3 for example)? I assume each update includes everything before it but not 100% sure. Where would stop light warning feature be displayed in settings for example?


There's not any penalty for skipping a version. When you install a new version, you're going to get whatever features are in that new version regardless of what version you're coming from. Whether or not you install 8.3 will have no influence on whether the next version after that contains stop light warning.

Each version is a standalone piece of software, your features don't accrue with each version installed.


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## Vin (Mar 30, 2017)

I'm a little confused, so if you have 15.5 for example and 8.3 has stoplight warning, and the next newer update (ie 8.9) doesn't have stoplight warning could you potentially not get the stoplight warning feature if you never installed 
8.3 because you went right from 15.5 to 8.9 for example?


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## rlb4 (May 22, 2018)

Vin said:


> I'm a little confused, so if you have 15.5 for example and 8.3 has stoplight warning, and the next newer update (ie 8.9) doesn't have stoplight warning could you potentially not get the stoplight warning feature if you never installed
> 8.3 because you went right from 15.5 to 8.9 for example?


In that example, 8.9 would remove stoplight warning. So anyone who installs 8.9 will have the same features(if their care supports it).


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## Vin (Mar 30, 2017)

Sorry but I'm still not understanding. In this example let's say 15.5 doesn't have stoplight warning. 8.3 does have it. 8.9 doesn't have it. You just went from 2018.15.5 to 2019.8.9, never having installed 2019.8.3.
Do you still have Stoplight Warning? (And if not, when would you get Stoplight Warning?) Thx


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

Vin said:


> Sorry but I'm still not understanding. In this example let's say 15.5 doesn't have stoplight warning. 8.3 does have it. 8.9 doesn't have it. You just went from 2018.15.5 to 2019.8.9, never having installed 2019.8.3.
> Do you still have Stoplight Warning? (And if not, when would you get Stoplight Warning?) Thx


As LongRanger mentioned above, the version you're updating from doesn't matter. The version you're updating to is the only version that matters.

In your example, if 8.9 doesn't have stoplight warning, and you update to 8.9, then you don't have stoplight warning. It doesn't matter whether you updated from 8.3, 15.5, or any other version, and it doesn't matter whether stoplight warning is present in any of those versions.


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## Vin (Mar 30, 2017)

Bokonon said:


> As LongRanger mentioned above, the version you're updating from doesn't matter. The version you're updating to is the only version that matters.
> 
> In your example, if 8.9 doesn't have stoplight warning, and you update to 8.9, then you don't have stoplight warning. It doesn't matter whether you updated from 8.3, 15.5, or any other version, and it doesn't matter whether stoplight warning is present in any of those versions.


Ok, so then there does seem to be a penalty if you skipped a version in this case (skipping 8.3, the version that contained stoplight warning). I thought it was all cumulative and every M3 eventually has all the new features that were rolled out (within paid EAP or FSD limits) once they have the latest update, but it seems not to be the case according to this post? So I may never get Stoplight warning unless they make it a standard safety feature in a future standalone update.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Over the last month they have had several branches of software that appear were rolled out to small groups for perhaps testing and feedback. Each of those releases didn't necessarily have all the features that might have been in a different release. Some might have even received multiple releases. Eventually over time, you will catch up and all of the features will be brought back to releases that get rolled out to all cars, but there could be periods of time where not everyone has all features or you might even lose a feature when you get another round of SW until they are all caught up again.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

Vin said:


> Ok, so then there does seem to be a penalty if you skipped a version in this case (skipping 8.3, the version that contained stoplight warning). I thought it was all cumulative and every M3 eventually has all the new features that were rolled out (within paid EAP or FSD limits) once they have the latest update, but it seems not to be the case according to this post? So I may never get Stoplight warning unless they make it a standard safety feature in a future standalone update.


the releases are accumulative of all prior features (assuming something wasn't removed because of an issue).
if you skip x version with abc feature, the next will include abc plus whatever else is new.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

Vin said:


> Ok, so then there does seem to be a penalty if you skipped a version in this case (skipping 8.3, the version that contained stoplight warning). I thought it was all cumulative and every M3 eventually has all the new features that were rolled out (within paid EAP or FSD limits) once they have the latest update, but it seems not to be the case according to this post?


No, there's no penalty to skipping a version. Firmware updates are a single, monolithic piece of software that contains every feature and behavior present in that version. They are not a series of incremental updates that must all be applied, and be applied in a specific order.



Vin said:


> So I may never get Stoplight warning unless they make it a standard safety feature in a future standalone update.


You car will get stoplight warning capability as soon as it updates to 2019.8.3, or any subsequent firmware.

I think the discussion above about non-sequential version numbering for beta releases and features being temporarily removed from beta releases may be muddying the waters. Those of us not in the beta program generally don't have to worry about features being "removed" or "missing" from a firmware release, because each subsequent firmware version always contains newer features and behaviors than the previous one.

(Whether we perceive the "newer" features/behaviors as "better", and whether they apply to our specific vehicle configuration are separate questions...)


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## Georgek (Mar 26, 2019)

Bokonon said:


> No, there's no penalty to skipping a version. Firmware updates are a single, monolithic piece of software that contains every feature and behavior present in that version. They are not a series of incremental updates that must all be applied, and be applied in a specific order.
> 
> You car will get stoplight warning capability as soon as it updates to 2019.8.3, or any subsequent firmware.
> 
> ...


I can't wait for my next update since the last one I got took away a real feature - added miles. I went from 2019.5.15 where I got up to 325 miles back down to 310 miles on 2019.7.11 last week. Don't know why I didn't get the latest that was out at the time, but losing the extra miles with an upcoming trip was not good.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

Georgek said:


> I can't wait for my next update since the last one I got took away a real feature - added miles. I went from 2019.5.15 where I got up to 325 miles back down to 310 miles on 2019.7.11 last week. Don't know why I didn't get the latest that was out at the time, but losing the extra miles with an upcoming trip was not good.


2019.7.11 is a beta release (V3 supercharging) so it's another oddball case where some recent features seem to get rolled back temporarily.

As for "losing" the "additional" range specifically... I don't actually think you're losing anything in practice. There's a decent amount of evidence from the car's internal data that suggests that the range "increase" for RWD cars is just a readjustment of the car's range calculations to reflect the fact that the RWD powertrain is more efficient, and is capable of getting closer to 325 miles than the previous rating of 310. In other words, 2019.5.15 doesn't actually give the RWD access to any additional battery capacity that it didn't have before, meaning your real-world range on your road trip will be the same on 2019.7.11 as it would have been under 2019.5.15.


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## Georgek (Mar 26, 2019)

Good to know. Thanks


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Bokonon said:


> I think the discussion above about non-sequential version numbering for beta releases and features being temporarily removed from beta releases may be muddying the waters. Those of us not in the beta program generally don't have to worry about features being "removed" or "missing" from a firmware release, because each subsequent firmware version always contains newer features and behaviors than the previous one.


^ This

Beta testers are the only ones who would theoretically end up having a new, unreleased feature removed in a future update. The rest of us don't need to worry about this. If Tesla actually advertises a feature, then they won't remove it once they give it to you.


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

garsh said:


> ^ This
> 
> Beta testers are the only ones who would theoretically end up having a new, unreleased feature removed in a future update. The rest of us don't need to worry about this. If Tesla actually advertises a feature, then they won't remove it once they give it to you.


Counterpoint: Pole Position.


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## TheeCatzMeow (Feb 8, 2019)

Vin said:


> I'm a little confused,





Vin said:


> Sorry but I'm still not understanding.





MelindaV said:


> the releases are accumulative of all prior features (assuming something wasn't removed because of an issue).
> if you skip x version with abc feature, the next will include abc plus whatever else is new.





Bokonon said:


> No, there's no penalty to skipping a version.


There a bunch of confusion I just want to simply clear things up.....
Think of every update as a fresh install you get what Tesla decided to include its not dependent on anything other than your car's hardware.
(And yes generally speaking, barring a strong reason like an issue, newer version contain all the features of previous. Beta Testers excluded.)


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## Kizzy (Jul 25, 2016)

Vin said:


> Ok, so then there does seem to be a penalty if you skipped a version in this case (skipping 8.3, the version that contained stoplight warning). I thought it was all cumulative and every M3 eventually has all the new features that were rolled out (within paid EAP or FSD limits) once they have the latest update, but it seems not to be the case according to this post? So I may never get Stoplight warning unless they make it a standard safety feature in a future standalone update.


The only penalty is that if you're on one firmware (5.15) and a new feature is in one update (8.3 with stoplight warning) but not in the next (hypothetical 8.9 beta firmware without stoplight warning) and you skip the one in-between (8.3), you just won't get to have used it before it was not included in the firmware that you do get.



garsh said:


> Beta testers are the only ones who would theoretically end up having a new, unreleased feature removed in a future update. The rest of us don't need to worry about this. If Tesla actually advertises a feature, then they won't remove it once they give it to you.


Also keep in mind that people from different regions of the world are posting here and will be getting different features and not necessarily the same update versions. So it's possible that it might seem that features were removed in later versions but actually, they were just never available in that country.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

Kizzy said:


> Also keep in mind that people from different regions of the world are posting here and will be getting different features and not necessarily the same update versions. So it's possible that it might seem that features were removed in later versions but actually, they were just never available in that country.


this applies within an identical release as well. Like right now Canadians are getting the same 8.3 release those in the US are getting but may not have the stop light warning or key fob summons because those features are not yet available to that region.


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## Nom (Oct 30, 2018)

I'm seeing all these post headers and I'm not getting the jump from 7 or 8 all the way up to 12 point something. I thought I noticed, last year, that the version numbering related to the month of the release. So in September it would be 2018.9.something. Seems like I made this up for myself now, to pretend like I got it.

Is there any rhyme or reason for the numbering?


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## THX723 (Feb 1, 2019)

The format is as follows: _*Year . Week . Rev . sub-rev ...*_


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## 19Model34me (Apr 5, 2019)

That makes more sense now. Do all cars get the revisions regardless of the type? I was reading only the lr will get the higher speed supercharging initially, not the sr.


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## Frully (Aug 30, 2018)

19Model34me said:


> That makes more sense now. Do all cars get the revisions regardless of the type? I was reading only the lr will get the higher speed supercharging initially, not the sr.


In my experience there are several fragmented deployments that are even identically named. 
A given fw version may or may not have a feature based on various factors. I personally know that some features are kneecapped on the identically numbered and release hash version in Canada versus USA. It's not a stretch to say that some features may also be fragmented by vehicle model.


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## slacker775 (May 30, 2018)

Right now, there are a few different trains floating around, but ultimately, there will be a consolidation. 2019.7.x seems to be all about getting HW3/FSD computer up to par. 2019.8.x seems like it was a fairly wide release, at least for M3. 2019.12 may also be a fairly standard release, though I haven’t looked at the deployment numbers on that one just yet. It could be something targeted for Europe or the like. If I remember right, one of the earlier releases this year was all about European support and languages..


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

Frully said:


> In my experience there are several fragmented deployments that are even identically named.
> A given fw version may or may not have a feature based on various factors. I personally know that some features are kneecapped on the identically numbered and release hash version in Canada versus USA. It's not a stretch to say that some features may also be fragmented by vehicle model.


Do you think the code itself is different, or that the car "knows" it's in Canada, and therefore activates a different feature set? In other words, if you drove one of those Canadian cars to the US, would the available features change automatically, without a new firmware download?


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## littlD (Apr 17, 2016)

DocScott said:


> Do you think the code itself is different, or that the car "knows" it's in Canada, and therefore activates a different feature set? In other words, if you drove one of those Canadian cars to the US, would the available features change automatically, without a new firmware download?


Likely some features are enabled for certain world regions, flashing brake lights for example.

Most anything can be turned on or off in code through a "feature flag". Used in lots of software deployments, not just Tesla

http://featureflags.io/


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## Frully (Aug 30, 2018)

DocScott said:


> Do you think the code itself is different, or that the car "knows" it's in Canada, and therefore activates a different feature set? In other words, if you drove one of those Canadian cars to the US, would the available features change automatically, without a new firmware download?


I know I had the same build checksum hash as others with features just missing - so the file deployment itself may not be fragmented but the feature flags as littlD points out could trigger differences. A much more concise way to describe it.


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## Nom (Oct 30, 2018)

Ahhh, WEEK, not month. Thank you!


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