# Difference Between park & PARK



## radlaw

If you press the end button on the right steering wheel stalk, it goes into "park" mode. However. if you hold that button in or a few seconds it goes into another park mode with a letter "((P)) " on the top right of the console. what is the difference between the 2 park modes?


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## FRC

The second is parking brake.


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## radlaw

FRC said:


> The second is parking brake.


Thanks for the reply. Few more questions: What's that? Where's that? What does that do that the 1st doesn't do. Why need 2?


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## FRC

Maybe your more familiar with the name emergency brake?


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## eXntrc

FRC said:


> Maybe your more familiar with the name emergency brake?


Honestly, I'm in the same boat as @radlaw here. I know what a parking break is. But when you go into regular Park you can hear the electric motor whine and "clamp down" on the break. I read in another thread it's like a "4 wheel parking break". I'm confused what happens _beyond _standard park when going into the extra mode and why we need it. e.g. is the "standard park" not sufficient for a steep hill?


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## JasonF

That is a statement of intensity. In case Park isn't good enough for you, you can hold the button longer, and then it's really _really_ in _PARK_. 

As far as I know, it doesn't really do anything if you're already in Park, because the parking brake is already activated. I don't know exactly why it can be activated separately, except maybe either to comply with regulations, or in case the car fails to go into Park for some reason.

EDIT: I suppose it might be useful when you're in Tow Mode to stop the car rolling without putting it in park.


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## Dogwhistle

The mechanical parking brake fully applies with the first push of the button. (Roll down your window and listen). The second prolonged push only gives you an icon to give you a warm fuzzy. Unnecessary, one park push is all that’s needed.


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## radlaw

Dogwhistle said:


> The mechanical parking brake fully applies with the first push of the button. (Roll down your window and listen). The second prolonged push only gives you an icon to give you a warm fuzzy. Unnecessary, one park push is all that's needed.


That isn't what I experience. The 1st park gives a whining sound. The prolonged 2nd park gives the audible click and the icon. Apparently, two separate processes. I'm curious what the two processes are.


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## SR22pilot

If the regular brakes fail I believe the parking brake can still be applied to stop the car. Just like the way a hand brake is separate.


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## Karl Sun

eXntrc said:


> Honestly, I'm in the same boat as @radlaw here. I know what a parking break is. But when you go into regular Park you can hear the electric motor whine and "clamp down" on the break. I read in another thread it's like a "4 wheel parking break". I'm confused what happens _beyond _standard park when going into the extra mode and why we need it. e.g. is the "standard park" not sufficient for a steep hill?


 Only the rear calipers have the park brake electric motors on them.

There is no easy way to make a solid-mounted, 4-piston caliper perform the parking brake function.


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## Frully

My understanding is you can't put it in park while you're moving, but you can put it in ((P)) 2 second push while you're moving. The car will rapidly come to a halt at any speed.


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## Kizzy

Something I noticed the other day…

When using Autopark to Park in a parking stall, the car engaged the parking brake in a way that caused the “Park” light to come on. I did not hold in the Park button nor even select Park. It did this itself upon completing the parking maneuver. This was on software version 2019.5.15.


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## Long Ranger

Kizzy said:


> Something I noticed the other day…
> 
> When using Autopark to Park in a parking stall, the car engaged the parking brake in a way that caused the "Park" light to come on. I did not hold in the Park button nor even select Park. It did this itself upon completing the parking maneuver. This was on software version 2019.5.15.


I've noticed the same thing after Summon stops the car on 2019.5.15. I didn't notice the Park light after using Summon on earlier software versions, but I could have missed it.


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## Guest

Many cars have Parking brake and gear P.
For example Nissan Leaf has electronic parking brake but also electronic pawl (a stick) that inserts itself into reduction gear wheel.
if driver engages P gear.
Tesla doesn't have that P gear. Engaging P will engage parking brake.
Some Tesla models have separate parking brake calipers but lately parking brake has been integrated into main caliper.
Electronic parking brake actuates motors in the calipers that engage (not rapidly) brake pads.
Parking brake actuators are "set it and forget it". So if power goes out they stay in whatever state they were.
Main brake calipers work hydraulically. These will disengage as soon as brake control module goes to sleep.


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## 3V Pilot

[mod note: post partially copied from another thread]

Yesterday I helped a lady take delivery of a new Model 3. As the delivery specialist was going through the car he pointed out something that I never knew. The parking brake is now set by a long press on the "Park" button.

When I bought my car, nearly a year ago, the brake could only be manually set from a menu button on the screen. I also thought it was automatically set anytime the car was in park. Now the only way to set it is with the button. When did this change? I really thought I did a pretty good job of reading this board and the firmware update notes, I even try to pay attention to changes in the owner's manual. Obviously I missed this change somewhere along the way. Am I alone here or did others not know?


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## Frully

I've had the menu option since last year to set the park brake...but it was always greyed out. Hadn't noticed that it went away. Always knew there was another level of park brake applied with the long press.

Edit: now that it's piqued my interest...it seems holding it just turns on the red park indicator to say "I'm in park brake mode", which is redundant to "I'm in park" because they are the same thing. My hunch is that people hearing any noise when engaging the secondary 'brake' is it's the same actuator pushing again in case the first time didn't go. Also, I don't think you can put it in park when you're moving quickly, but you CAN engage the emergency brake by holding it...which I have done...and you come to a stop...uncomfortably urgently.
Edit2: I held the button thinking I was washing the wipers and got dyslexic...held it long enough to come to a screeching halt.


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## 3V Pilot

Mine makes a noticeable "Click" sound when I put the parking brake on with the long press. Makes me wonder if it's actually applied when just the "P" is shown? Is it possible that the car traps the hydraulic brakes like in Hold mode for regular parking but doesn't actually apply normal parking brake? I thought the car always applied the parking brake, now I'm not so sure.


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## garsh

3V Pilot said:


> Yesterday I helped a lady take delivery of a new Model 3. As the delivery specialist was going through the car he pointed out something that I never knew. The parking brake is now set by a long press on the "Park" button.


What does a short press on the park button do?


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## 3V Pilot

garsh said:


> What does a short press on the park button do?


Short press for "Park", long press engages the actual Parking brake. You hear a "click" and a red icon appears that says "Park".

(edit: I originally posted the red icon said "brake" but corrected it to "Park")


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## Needsdecaf

Something seems odd.

First, I would definitely not describe my parking brake as a "click". It's an extended (2-3) second electric motor actuation noise, like a loud "whir / whine". Same as the electric parking brake in my Porsches, which are manually activated, not automatic. The one in my Lexus was automatic (if so set) but much quieter). But the noise I am hearing is definitely 100% the parking brake. 

Second, when I put the car in park, the parking brake automatically comes on. There is no need to long press at all. As soon as i push park, I hear the "whir / whine" sound, and hear it again when shifting to drive.


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## Long Ranger

The real difference between the short and long press is something I've been meaning to look into. There was another thread about the difference, but I didn't think it was too conclusive:
https://teslaownersonline.com/threads/difference-between-park-park.11442/


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## Bokonon

Needsdecaf said:


> Second, when I put the car in park, the parking brake automatically comes on. There is no need to long press at all. As soon as i push park, I hear the "whir / whine" sound, and hear it again when shifting to drive.


Try activating the parking brake as you're doing now. Then, after it's done, long-press the park button and listen for a "click" from the rear wheels. That's the sound that people are talking about. You'll also see the orange "P" icon illuminated on the touchscreen.

I am also uncertain as to whether performing a long-press actually makes a difference in practical terms. For whatever it's worth, though, Summon and Auto-park seem to use the "long-press" park.


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## Frully

Since it got skipped in my huge rambling - the difference seems to be 
Short press turns on park
Long press turns on park
They are the same...except

Short press has no effect while moving
Long press can engage the capital-E-mergency brake while moving


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## Long Ranger

Frully said:


> My hunch is that people hearing any noise when engaging the secondary 'brake' is it's the same actuator pushing again in case the first time didn't go.


I think that's a pretty good theory. That click upon long press has always puzzled me.

If there really is no difference, and both short and long presses apply the parking brake equally, then I can think of two reasons why Tesla would bother to implement the long press and separate indicator. 1) People are simply more comfortable having separate Park and Brake actions and indicators. 2) The long press trains people to associate that action with the brake, so they're more likely to think of doing that in an emergency situation.


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## garsh

3V Pilot said:


> Short press for "Park", long press engages the actual Parking brake. You hear a "click" and a red icon appears that says "Brake".


Sure, but what is "Park"?
I always thought that plain old "Park" activated the parking brake. It sounds like the parking brake is engaging when I do so.

If not, then what does it do?


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## Frully

garsh said:


> Sure, but what is "Park"?
> I always that that plain old "Park" activated the parking brake. It sounds like the parking brake is engaging when I do so.
> 
> If not, then what does it do?


In addition to my above posts...I think the click is probably a clutch detent telling the park brake actuator that it's reached end of travel, like the click of a gas cap on an ICE car.

Edit: mod question: did my other post get deleted? I can't see it any more and it was more succinct.


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## msjulie

My experience, having removed the rear rotors, is that Park and 'the parking brake' do exactly the same thing to the calipers out back.. . spin them tight against the rotor. Makes sense to me the button (menu) would go away as it always seemed redundant to me...


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## RUN TM3

From the manual:

Parking Brake - The parking brake automatically engages when you shift Model 3 into Park, and releases when you shift into any other gear.


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## RonAz

I was told that the long press puts more pressure on the pads. Service also said don’t use it if you don’t need it because of the higher hydraulic pressure I would quess.


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## Baymax

Prior to 8.5, I remember playing around the long press, and figured that it only turned on the red indicator. I never heard any different sounds when going from short press (P) to long press. However, on 8.5 I hear a distinct "CLICK" when long pressing the button on the stalk...that never happened before.


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## JWardell

It's strange for me to learn today here (And this other thread...should these be merged?) that there are two DIFFERENT parking modes. You press in to park, parking brake engages. I thought hold in was only used to engage while moving for donuts and drifting...
But with different noises and displays something is different.
Next week I will log the difference between the two of these, I should see different modes in various state bytes if true. Might give a clue as to what is really going on.


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## Bokonon

Frully said:


> Edit: mod question: did my other post get deleted? I can't see it any more and it was more succinct.


I moved it (and most of the other posts in this thread) to the Park vs. PARK thread on the same topic. I didn't merge the entire thread so that @3V Pilot's original question (and poll) could remain open. Sorry for the confusion...and bear with me as I move some more posts to better separate the two.


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## Baymax

Baymax said:


> Prior to 8.5, I remember playing around the long press, and figured that it only turned on the red indicator. I never heard any different sounds when going from short press (P) to long press. However, on 8.5 I hear a distinct "CLICK" when long pressing the button on the stalk...that never happened before.


Intended to attach the video. You have to really listen for it, but the extra click is definitely there.


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## Needsdecaf

Bokonon said:


> Try activating the parking brake as you're doing now. Then, after it's done, long-press the park button and listen for a "click" from the rear wheels. That's the sound that people are talking about. You'll also see the orange "P" icon illuminated on the touchscreen.
> 
> I am also uncertain as to whether performing a long-press actually makes a difference in practical terms. For whatever it's worth, though, Summon and Auto-park seem to use the "long-press" park.


Yeah, I tried that last night, and you're right. The ((P)) logo comes on and there is a "click". I wonder what that is? The gear "wine" is definitely the parking brake activating. The click is something else. Maybe a lock on the brake itself?

Definitely different....


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## Hugh_Jassol

JWardell said:


> It's strange for me to learn today here (And this other thread...should these be merged?) that there are two DIFFERENT parking modes. You press in to park, parking brake engages. I thought hold in was only used to engage while moving for donuts and drifting...
> But with different noises and displays something is different.
> Next week I will log the difference between the two of these, I should see different modes in various state bytes if true. Might give a clue as to what is really going on.


Fine, but if you start injecting actual facts into this, it's just going to ruin all of the GUT FEELS about what's going on!


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## Klaus-rf

I recently asked a Tesla Servic Ranger about the differences between the "two parks". He had no idea what I was talking about so I showed him the light press followed by the long press and screen red icon.

He said he'd research and get back to me having no idea what the car was doing.


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## JWardell

I made a log of the park modes today and spent a while analyzing it, fully expecting to see some interesting states etc.
I saw...nothing change at all. 

It sounds as if a parking pawl is getting activated, maybe in the gearbox, like in an automatic transmission. Just a guess.
I looked through data for the steering column, VCleft, electronic parking brake, UI, drive inverter...NOTHING changed between the time I parked normally and held the button and activated super park.


I will continue to dig to see if I can find something. Must be in messages I don't know. I hate not knowing what's going on


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## Needsdecaf

JWardell said:


> I made a log of the park modes today and spent a while analyzing it, fully expecting to see some interesting states etc.
> I saw...nothing change at all.
> 
> It sounds as if a parking pawl is getting activated, maybe in the gearbox, like in an automatic transmission. Just a guess.
> I looked through data for the steering column, VCleft, electronic parking brake, UI, drive inverter...NOTHING changed between the time I parked normally and held the button and activated super park.
> 
> 
> I will continue to dig to see if I can find something. Must be in messages I don't know. I hate not knowing what's going on


Hint...look for the data marked 'click'.


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## garsh

JWardell said:


> It sounds as if a parking pawl is getting activated, maybe in the gearbox, like in an automatic transmission. Just a guess.


Good guess, but no.

https://jalopnik.com/watch-us-dig-into-a-totally-disassembled-tesla-model-3-1833772985
_"Munro says the Tesla Model 3 does not use a parking pawl, but rather relies on its electric park brake mechanism to keep the vehicle at rest when parked"_


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## JWardell

garsh said:


> Good guess, but no.
> 
> https://jalopnik.com/watch-us-dig-into-a-totally-disassembled-tesla-model-3-1833772985
> _"Munro says the Tesla Model 3 does not use a parking pawl, but rather relies on its electric park brake mechanism to keep the vehicle at rest when parked"_


Munro lost my trust from the beginning of anything stated as fact. His first report was full of wrong assumptions and unnecessarily anti-testa. The fact that he has now flip-flopped doesn't add confidence.
Regardless I was just saying what it sounded like. We could see if we can find the supplier of the EPB and see if there is an additional mode


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## JWardell

I've found right and left electric parking brake status messages, and not entirely sure I understand them, but I think it does somewhat answer our question.
There is definitely a status mode dedicated to SuperPark (that's what I'm calling it!)  and the caliper engage is triggered a second time when engaging it past normal park.
There's also a sensor voltage that normally sits at 1.7V and goes up to 4.5V only during SuperPark, so this may in fact be a more secure stronger braking force.


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## Sandy

JWardell said:


> I've found right and left electric parking brake status messages, and not entirely sure I understand them, but I think it does somewhat answer our question.
> There is definitely a status mode dedicated to SuperPark (that's what I'm calling it!)  and the caliper engage is triggered a second time when engaging it past normal park.
> There's also a sensor voltage that normally sits at 1.7V and goes up to 4.5V only during SuperPark, so this may in fact be a more secure stronger braking force.
> 
> View attachment 24916


Good work Josh!


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## PaulK

When I park my Honda, I push the parking brake down with my foot. If on a hill I always do this in neutral because the parking brake is [lousy] and frequently the van will "ooze"'downhill and I don't want pressure on the [lousy] engine mounts.

When it begins to "ooze" downhill I have to momentarily step extra hard on the (already near the floor) parking brake and then the van actually holds itself still. I then shift to Park, shut off the engine and (carefully) get out.

So maybe Super Park is for, like this, really steep hills if/when the brake mechanism gets weaker from age. Hopefully we never have a thread dedicated to carrying parking chocks for hills


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## Needsdecaf

PaulK said:


> When I park my Honda, I push the parking brake down with my foot. If on a hill I always do this in neutral because the parking brake is [lousy] and frequently the van will "ooze"'downhill and I don't want pressure on the [lousy] engine mounts.
> 
> When it begins to "ooze" downhill I have to momentarily step extra hard on the (already near the floor) parking brake and then the van actually holds itself still. I then shift to Park, shut off the engine and (carefully) get out.
> 
> So maybe Super Park is for, like this, really steep hills if/when the brake mechanism gets weaker from age. Hopefully we never have a thread dedicated to carrying parking chocks for hills


Your parking brake isn't wearing out, your cable is stretching. Have it adjusted.


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## TomT

My Leaf had a similar function. One push on the switch engaged the electric parking brake. A second push simply re-engaged it and tightened it up a little bit more. I suspect the M3 is similiar...


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## TheMagician

TomT said:


> My Leaf had a similar function. One push on the switch engaged the electric parking brake. A second push simply re-engaged it and tightened it up a little bit more. I suspect the M3 is similiar...


Except that your Leaf has an electromechanical parking brake. You activate a switch that engages a motor to pull a cable that goes to the rear brakes and probably why it had a "second" mode (which is documented in the owners manual) in case the cable stretched a little (and was needlessly complex which is why they probably switched back to an old fashioned foot pedal in later years).

My two cents worth is that the parking brake IS engaged with just one push and is easily tested. Almost all automatic ICE cars (including the Leaf) use a parking pawl to put a car in Park. You can put your knee to the back bumper and easily rock the car back and forth 2-3 inches when the parking brake is not applied. Try that with the 3. It does not budge even one centimeter which tells me that something more than a parking pawl (does the 3 even have one?) is holding the car in place. Still can't explain "Superpark" though since it's supposed to have electric parking brakes and there's no cable to stretch.


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## JWardell

TheMagician said:


> Except that your Leaf has an electromechanical parking brake. You activate a switch that engages a motor to pull a cable that goes to the rear brakes and probably why it had a "second" mode (which is documented in the owners manual) in case the cable stretched a little (and was needlessly complex which is why they probably switched back to an old fashioned foot pedal in later years).
> 
> My two cents worth is that the parking brake IS engaged with just one push and is easily tested. Almost all automatic ICE cars (including the Leaf) use a parking pawl to put a car in Park. You can put your knee to the back bumper and easily rock the car back and forth 2-3 inches when the parking brake is not applied. Try that with the 3. It does not budge even one centimeter which tells me that something more than a parking pawl (does the 3 even have one?) is holding the car in place. Still can't explain "Superpark" though since it's supposed to have electric parking brakes and there's no cable to stretch.


There are two types of electronic parking brakes: those that directly squeeze the brake calipers like on the Model 3 and those than winch the pre-existing parking brake cable. I'm sure the latter is quickly disappearing from new designs. It appears that the OEMs for these offer a second mode to squeeze/pull more.


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## TomT

Actually, the Leaf electric brake automatically compensated for cable stretch and pad wear, so the second pull was not really necessary for this purpose...
I suspect thdey got rid of the electric parking brake because it costed more... Personally, I liked it better than the foot pedal (which I have never liked).



TheMagician said:


> Except that your Leaf has an electromechanical parking brake. You activate a switch that engages a motor to pull a cable that goes to the rear brakes and probably why it had a "second" mode (which is documented in the owners manual) in case the cable stretched a little (and was needlessly complex which is why they probably switched back to an old fashioned foot pedal in later years).


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## TheMagician

TomT said:


> Actually, the Leaf electric brake automatically compensated for cable stretch and pad wear, so the second pull was not really necessary for this purpose...
> I suspect thdey got rid of the electric parking brake because it costed more... Personally, I liked it better than the foot pedal (which I have never liked).


I'm old school so I actually don't mind the foot brake on my '15 Leaf. At least I remember to engage it everywhere except in the garage (as opposed to my '11 Leaf where I usually forgot to push (or was it pull) the little lever). I give Tesla big props for combining the park/parking brake function. Nissan could have done that back in the day but, for whatever reason, they wanted you to activate that little lever.


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## Craig Bennett

Could the "clicking" noise be the doors unlocking? 

From the manual:
"To make it convenient to pick up passengers,
you can also unlock all doors at any time by
shifting into Park then pressing the Park
button a second time."

Also:
"Press the end of the gear selector while Model
3 is stopped. Whenever Model 3 is in Park, the
parking brake is applied."


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## Klaus-rf

In my experience, all doors unlock whether using park or PARK.


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## AutopilotFan

JWardell said:


> I've found right and left electric parking brake status messages, and not entirely sure I understand them, but I think it does somewhat answer our question.
> There is definitely a status mode dedicated to SuperPark (that's what I'm calling it!)  and the caliper engage is triggered a second time when engaging it past normal park.
> There's also a sensor voltage that normally sits at 1.7V and goes up to 4.5V only during SuperPark, so this may in fact be a more secure stronger braking force.
> 
> View attachment 24916


Thank you for finding this out. I used SuperPark last week when I parked on a hill -- and that's when I'd like to be extra double sure it knows it needs to stick the parking.


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## garsh

Craig Bennett said:


> Could the "clicking" noise be the doors unlocking?





Klaus-rf said:


> In my experience, all doors unlock whether using park or PARK.


I've finally noticed one difference between first park and second park. 

First park doesn't allow me to open the trunk or frunk from the vehicle's display. But if I press park again, then those buttons become active.


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## Klaus-rf

garsh said:


> I've finally noticed one difference between first park and second park.
> 
> First park doesn't allow me to open the trunk or frunk from the vehicle's display. But if I press park again, then those buttons become active.


 Curious. I've never had an issue opening the trunk using the main screen. Perhaps I opened the drivers door first?


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## Klaus-rf

Tested it just now. Pulled into parking spot, selected park. Pressed "Open" at rear of car icon on left side of screen, trunk popped. Did not yet open door.


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## garsh

garsh said:


> I've finally noticed one difference between first park and second park.
> 
> First park doesn't allow me to open the trunk or frunk from the vehicle's display. But if I press park again, then those buttons become active.





Klaus-rf said:


> Tested it just now. Pulled into parking spot, selected park. Pressed "Open" at rear of car icon on left side of screen, trunk popped. Did not yet open door.


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## Kizzy

garsh said:


>


Oh, yeah. My frunk won't open when my doors are locked. I usually have this issue after locking my doors before trying to open my frunk.

The physical trunk button still works when the car is locked, however.


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## garsh

Kizzy said:


> Oh, yeah. My frunk won't open when my doors are locked.


Sure. The interesting point here is that the doors are remaining locked when I first put the car in park. Hitting park a second time unlocks everything.

I could unlock them using the door button instead, which should have the same effect as hitting park a second time.


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## Klaus-rf

Hmmm ... my doors don't appear to stay locked after the first "park". Is there a setting for that?


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## Long Ranger

Klaus-rf said:


> Hmmm ... my doors don't appear to stay locked after the first "park". Is there a setting for that?


Yes, there's a setting for unlock on park. That's the difference you are seeing. From the manual:

Unlock on Park
When you stop Model 3 and engage the Park gear, you can choose to unlock all doors. To turn this feature on or off, touch Controls > Locks > Unlock on Park.
Note: If set to OFF, you can unlock all doors by pressing the Park button a second time after engaging the Park gear.


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## Klaus-rf

So I must have it set to unlock in park. Therefore there is no differecne [in door locks] when using PARK mode. that must also make my touch-screen trunk "Open" button active when in "park" mode.


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## Long Ranger

Klaus-rf said:


> So I must have it set to unlock in park. Therefore there is no differecne [in door locks] when using PARK mode. that must also make my touch-screen trunk "Open" button active when in "park" mode.


Right. And @garsh must have his setting OFF. For those of us with Unlock to Park ON, the only difference between the first and second press of the park button is the PARK indication on screen and the extra actuator click that we hear.

[EDIT: Actually, the second press does nothing for me. It requires a long press for the PARK indication and actuator click, as noted earlier in this thread.]


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## lairdb

garsh said:


> I've finally noticed one difference between first park and second park.
> 
> First park doesn't allow me to open the trunk or frunk from the vehicle's display. But if I press park again, then those buttons become active.


That's not SuperPark, that's unlock. (For those who have Unlock on Park turned off.) With Unlock on Park off, you should be able to achieve Superpark without unlock by pressing and holding the button once for several seconds; you should be able to achieve unlock without SuperPark by briefly pressing the button twice.

SuperPark is when you get this indicator in the idiot light area:









Although the manual says








("The parking brake automatically engages when you shift Model 3 into Park, and releases when you shift into any other gear. ")

...there is a distinct further mechanical sound when you press and hold the button and get the icon, suggesting a further or different engagement of... something.


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## lancegoddard

I wonder if it locks the front wheels in addition to the rear wheels. I recently did a front to back wheel rotation and the rear wheels - but not the front - were locked just using the park rather than PARK setting.


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