# If someone takes my phone, can they drive my car away?



## amercier (Mar 14, 2016)

While telling my coworkers that my phone works as a key for the Model 3, they jokingly said they would grab my phone off my desk when I wasn't there and go take my car for a joyride. Not that I'm worried that they would actually do it, but it got me thinking - is that all it takes?


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

amercier said:


> While telling my coworkers that my phone works as a key for the Model 3, they jokingly said they would grab my phone off my desk when I wasn't there and go take my car for a joyride. Not that I'm worried that they would actually do it, but it got me thinking - is that all it takes?


Yep, same as if you left your car keys or keyfob on your desk. The nice thing about this setup though is you no longer have to keep track of both keys and cell phone. My new cell phone cover has a wallet built in, just enough room for a drivers licenses and credit card, it's the only thing I'll ever need to carry once I get the car.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

Exactly what @Mike Land said, leaving your phone on your desk is no different than leaving your keys on your desk. That said, with everything on your phone already these days -- it really should never be out of your sight.

One kicker -- you lose your phone. You can manage your "phone keys" and remove your phone as a key from the car, so basically if your phone develops legs and walks away, head right out to your car with your backup key card, and make sure to remove the phone from your car's key list.


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## Oregonian (Dec 30, 2017)

Wouldn't the phone have to be unlocked? I'm not familiar enough with the system. I know that it's Bluetooth, and that it's paired. But is all It needs to be is paired?You don't have to do anything else?


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

Oregonian said:


> Wouldn't the phone have to be unlocked? I'm not familiar enough with the system. I know that it's Bluetooth, and that it's paired. But is all It needs to be is paired?You don't have to do anything else?


I'm sure @SoFlaModel3 or another owner can confirm this but I believe the phone does not need to be unlocked. Once the car "sees" the phone it's unlocked and ready to drive off as soon as you put your foot on the brake.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Oregonian said:


> Wouldn't the phone have to be unlocked? I'm not familiar enough with the system. I know that it's Bluetooth, and that it's paired. But is all It needs to be is paired?You don't have to do anything else?


Nope. Just have the app open in the background and the phone on your person. The BT will pair within a few feet (13 feet in my testing) and grab the handle and go.


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## Oregonian (Dec 30, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> Nope. Just have the app open in the background and the phone on your person. The BT will pair within a few feet (13 feet in my testing) and grab the handle and go.


So the app needs to be open. If it's not and your phone is locked then they can't take your car if they have your phone.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> Nope. Just have the app open in the background and the phone on your person. The BT will pair within a few feet (13 feet in my testing) and grab the handle and go.


Actually I'm pretty sure you can "hard close" and it still runs in the background and serves as the key.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Oregonian said:


> So the app needs to be open. If it's not and your phone is locked then they can't take your car if they have your phone.


Yes I just signed out of my app and could not open the car. The second I logged back in, I was able to open it. 
Not that that one test proves it but I tried to open it a few times and then as soon as I logged in it worked. And I have had no issues with the car and BT and getting in since I got it.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Oregonian said:


> So the app needs to be open. If it's not and your phone is locked then they can't take your car if they have your phone.


And to be clear with my test there. App being open just means that you are signed in and the app is running in the background. So with that and a locked phone, you can get in and go. 
So if you wanted to sign out of the app, you could and the phone won't open the doors via BT. 
Additionally, you can have Touch ID enabled for the app (iOS, not sure about android) and you could log out at work say, and when you go home sign in with your fingerprint and the car would open as you approached.


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> Yes I just signed out of my app and could not open the car. The second I logged back in, I was able to open it.
> Not that that one test proves it but I tried to open it a few times and then as soon as I logged in it worked. And I have had no issues with the car and BT and getting in since I got it.


So, if you wanted to mess with your co-workers just sign out of the app, leave your phone on the desk and let them give it a try. Once they ask why it didn't work tell them that the car also scans your DNA profile and zaps you with the Radar if your not the right person!


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> And to be clear with my test there. App being open just means that you are signed in and the app is running in the background. So with that and a locked phone, you can get in and go.
> So if you wanted to sign out of the app, you could and the phone won't open the doors via BT.
> Additionally, you can have Touch ID enabled for the app (iOS, not sure about android) and you could log out at work say, and when you go home sign in with your fingerprint and the car would open as you approached.


Luxman, you're so last year, you now need some Face ID. Sorry, just had to give you a hard time.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Mike Land said:


> Yep, same as if you left your car keys or keyfob on your desk. The nice thing about this setup though is you no longer have to keep track of both keys and cell phone. My new cell phone cover has a wallet built in, just enough room for a drivers licenses and credit card, it's the only thing I'll ever need to carry once I get the car.


From the many stories reading here and else where you really want your NFC card in that built in wallet as well as a backup for when the BT doesn't work. Seems its not if, but when, BT won't work til the SW gets all the bugs worked out.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

GDN said:


> Luxman, you're so last year, you now need some Face ID. Sorry, just had to give you a hard time.


Ha! I know right? I just a new battery for the 6 so I can kick that can down the road a few more years. 
But to be clear on my post, the TESLA App has fingerprint ID if you want to re-login, does the iphone still have fingerprint ID for those apps? Or does it re=check your face?


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> Ha! I know right? I just a new battery for the 6 so I can kick that can down the road a few more years.
> But to be clear on my post, the TESLA App has fingerprint ID if you want to re-login, does the iphone still have fingerprint ID for those apps? Or does it re=check your face?


The iPhone X no longer supports Touch ID and only supports Face ID. The Tesla app does support Face ID though.


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

GDN said:


> From the many stories reading here and else where you really want your NFC card in that built in wallet as well as a backup for when the BT doesn't work. Seems its not if, but when, BT won't work til the SW gets all the bugs worked out.


I agree and have a plan for to carry (or have access to) the card when needed. Seems like the newer software versions are getting much better at using the phone as a key but I'll always have at least one keycard with me.


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## theishu (Mar 21, 2017)

Sounds like a good feature request opportunity for future software updates: potentially being able to set up a PIN before driving the car, to avoid the situation the OP described. I know most people would choose the convenience of simply walking in and driving their car, as they have their phones on them 90% of the time. But for us worriers, it might be a useful feature to disable the car, or maybe keep it in valet mode until the PIN is entered.


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

theishu said:


> Sounds like a good feature request opportunity for future software updates: potentially being able to set up a PIN before driving the car, to avoid the situation the OP described. I know most people would choose the convenience of simply walking in and driving their car, as they have their phones on them 90% of the time. But for us worriers, it might be a useful feature to disable the car, or maybe keep it in valet mode until the PIN is entered.


You can accomplish the same thing now, just sign out of the Tesla app anytime you don't want the phone to have access to the car. Your log in might be slightly longer than a pin code but it would have the same effect as needing a pin.


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## PandaM3 (Apr 23, 2018)

Mike Land said:


> Yep, same as if you left your car keys or keyfob on your desk. The nice thing about this setup though is you no longer have to keep track of both keys and cell phone. My new cell phone cover has a wallet built in, just enough room for a drivers licenses and credit card, it's the only thing I'll ever need to carry once I get the car.


I do the same, cell phone in a case combined with my wallet and credit cards + back up key card incase the phone fails (so far it hasn't failed)

However you still need to carry keys to your home (even if you have an automated lock that works off the phone as well) so the phone/ wallet isn't the only thing to be carrying.

That being said I have my back up key card and house key on a seperate keychain/ card holder still.

Here's an idea for a software update... next update use the camera on the driver's side B pillar as facial recognition to get into the car. I know that camera is not going to be as sophisticated as the face id on the iPhone X however I have a work around to keep up the security. 
1) one tug on the door, then center screen wakes up.
2) put your face in proximity of the B pillar camera
3) once inside the car you enter a pin code on the center screen since you used face id to get in
4) once pin code is accepted you can start the car, drive it, unlock the glove box and trunk and frunk. That way even if someone where to put a picture of you in front of the camera... they still can't drive off, get into your frunk or trunk, or into important documents in the glove box

This way you have 3 different ways to get in so even if you loose your phone & you don't bring your back up key card with you since you now trust the phone will work 80% of the time then you still have a 3rd option for that 20% that it doesn't work.


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

PandaM3 said:


> I do the same, cell phone in a case combined with my wallet and credit cards + back up key card incase the phone fails (so far it hasn't failed)
> 
> However you still need to carry keys to your home (even if you have an automated lock that works off the phone as well) so the phone/ wallet isn't the only thing to be carrying.
> 
> ...


I don't carry house keys at all, my cell phone activates all smart home functions (locks/alarm/garage door) and even without it the Homelink from the car operates the garage. No need for any house keys at that point.

Interesting idea about the facial recognition, even if the camera was capable I doubt Tesla would go that route. Who knows though since they seem to do things that nobody else ever would. I like the idea of options to get into the car but if this worked I'd probably only use it as a backup. The phone solution will be great once all the bugs are worked out.


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## Rich M (Jul 28, 2017)

Mike Land said:


> I don't carry house keys at all, my cell phone activates all smart home functions (locks/alarm/garage door) and even without it the Homelink from the car operates the garage. No need for any house keys at that point.


And if the power's out?


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Rich M said:


> And if the power's out?


Batteries, dude.


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## Rich M (Jul 28, 2017)

garsh said:


> Batteries, dude.


Throw the battery through my window so I can get in?


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## PandaM3 (Apr 23, 2018)

Mike Land said:


> I don't carry house keys at all, my cell phone activates all smart home functions (locks/alarm/garage door) and even without it the Homelink from the car operates the garage. No need for any house keys at that point.
> 
> Interesting idea about the facial recognition, even if the camera was capable I doubt Tesla would go that route. Who knows though since they seem to do things that nobody else ever would. I like the idea of options to get into the car but if this worked I'd probably only use it as a backup. The phone solution will be great once all the bugs are worked out.


I'd probably eventually go that route... however I like a back up plan incase the tech fails.

So far my phone has worked 95% of the time in the week that I've had it. The one time it didn't work was in the garage where my wifi was weak and my phone didn't switch to my garage router. The rest of the day my phone wouldn't connect. Then I did a restart on my phone and everything was fine again. I have an iPhoneX btw.

As far as locks, everything in my home is smart as well... from light switches to operation of our home theater. I haven't gotten a smart lock yet however because I am waiting on all the home security to be on one platform/ ecosystemt or whatever tech people call it. I've got a Ring doorbell + Ring security cameras... am awaiting Amazon to finalize their aquisition so that Ring can roll out their security system as well... however they don't have their own doorlocks. I don't like the idea of switching from the Ring app to a seperate door lock app in a different window when needed. (I supposed I am overthinking it... I can just have a doorlock app run in the background of my phone to lock and unlock as I approach)

I just don't want to invest in a seperate ecosystem of gadgets just yet...

Until I know a solution that works 100% of the time with a good back up strategy I'm sticking to also carrying around a physical key + Tesla keycard. Besides in addition to those physical keys... I have a key to my office (building management won't do smart locks) + a key to the back utility closet where I can plug my car in to charge as well. So that's several keys right there already.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

Rich M said:


> Throw the battery through my window so I can get in?


maybe this varies based on local conditions (overhead wires vs underground, types of weather, etc), but I can not recall any time in the last 10 years that my power was out more than briefly following a local transformer being hit by lightning or something similar, and even at that - I only recall two times, and only knew it went out then because the appliance clocks needed to be reset.
so.... I'd personally not worry about being locked out of my house because of a power failure. I HAVE however been locked out of my house when my regular old key mechanical lock innards broke and needed to have a neighbor kid climb thru a small bathroom window to open a door from the inside.


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

Rich M said:


> And if the power's out?


All of my doors with smart locks also have manual locks and all are keyed alike. I have several ways to get into my house if the power is out but a simple solution would be to keep a house key in the car. No need to carry it with you. I will also have multiple ways to get into my car should the phone fail.


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

Rich M said:


> Throw the battery through my window so I can get in?


Well, that counts for at least one of my backup methods!....LOL. Most of my smarthome is on a battery backup but mainly alarm/internet and WiFi. The garage won't open but as @MelindaV states above my power is very rarely out. I just like the idea of not having to carry keys around, may not be the best solution for everyone though.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Mike Land said:


> The garage won't open...


I installed these on my garage doors:

Genie 1.25-HP Ultra Quiet, Stealthdrive Belt Drive Garage Door Opener *with Battery Back-Up*


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

garsh said:


> I installed these on my garage doors:
> 
> Genie 1.25-HP Ultra Quiet, Stealthdrive Belt Drive Garage Door Opener *with Battery Back-Up*


I just installed a Chamberlain with battery backup as well. Like it well so far. Unplugged it once just to try it, but haven't needed it otherwise. Unfortunately I've been without power a few hours at a time over the years and an ice storm about 5 years back we were without for almost 3 days. The gas fireplace and water heater kept on trucking, but we vacated the house a couple of days anyway.

I've always carried a wallet in my pocket. Rarely carry any cash any more, but figure the M3 key and a house key will go in there. I used to carry a spare pickup key at all times in the same place. The cheap small thin knock off replacement keys from Home Depot work well for this. Even for the house some of the bigger names in locks - their keys are giant. I also have a house key hidden well in the garage - good luck finding it in that place. I keep the door from the garage in to the house locked, I know that not everyone does that however.


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## Rich M (Jul 28, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> maybe this varies based on local conditions (overhead wires vs underground, types of weather, etc), but I can not recall any time in the last 10 years that my power was out more than briefly following a local transformer being hit by lightning or something similar, and even at that - I only recall two times, and only knew it went out then because the appliance clocks needed to be reset.
> so.... I'd personally not worry about being locked out of my house because of a power failure. I HAVE however been locked out of my house when my regular old key mechanical lock innards broke and needed to have a neighbor kid climb thru a small bathroom window to open a door from the inside.


While I personally can count on one hand the number of times there was a multi-hour outage at my house in 11 years, power failures happen quite a lot in southeast PA, but having your door lock fall apart is the least likely thing to ever happen. 



garsh said:


> I installed these on my garage doors:
> 
> Genie 1.25-HP Ultra Quiet, Stealthdrive Belt Drive Garage Door Opener *with Battery Back-Up*


These are great provided you remember to change out the el cheapo lead acid UPS-style battery every few years. The hot and cold of a Pennsylvania garage is not kind to these ( ask my coworker ). The $40 replacement price is reasonable, but remembering to do it is another matter.


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## Impatient (Sep 19, 2017)

theishu said:


> Sounds like a good feature request opportunity for future software updates: potentially being able to set up a PIN before driving the car, to avoid the situation the OP described. I know most people would choose the convenience of simply walking in and driving their car, as they have their phones on them 90% of the time. But for us worriers, it might be a useful feature to disable the car, or maybe keep it in valet mode until the PIN is entered.


I've been lobbying for a drive-away PIN for years. It would provide peace of mind in a variety of circumstances.


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## PandaM3 (Apr 23, 2018)

Mike Land said:


> All of my doors with smart locks also have manual locks and all are keyed alike. I have several ways to get into my house if the power is out but a simple solution would be to keep a house key in the car. No need to carry it with you. I will also have multiple ways to get into my car should the phone fail.


I just realized leaving a house key in the glovebox is an option.

That being said I live in a gentrifying urban neighborhood. Since the homeless have gotten kicked out of the river beds they've been wandering around aimlessly "imagine walking dead scene" during the day high on drugs and at night they've been breaking into cars when the drugs wear off. Some of them breaking windows, some finding the car door is unlocked, and some using sophisticated code grabbing equipment.

The TM3 is parked outside since it's my daily commuter car and my weekend toys are in the garage.

How secure is the TM3 in these situations? Can it get hacked easily and opened by some kind of code grabbing device? And if a window is broken how easy is it to access the glovebox? Besides valet lock is there another setting to lock the glove box? Like always enter a pin to open it?


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

PandaM3 said:


> I just realized leaving a house key in the glovebox is an option.
> 
> That being said I live in a gentrifying urban neighborhood. Since the homeless have gotten kicked out of the river beds they've been wandering around aimlessly "imagine walking dead scene" during the day high on drugs and at night they've been breaking into cars when the drugs wear off. Some of them breaking windows, some finding the car door is unlocked, and some using sophisticated code grabbing equipment.
> 
> ...


I can't answer all your questions but if the concern is someone finding the key in the car I'd say use some duct tape and hide it in the car in a place only you would know. Tape it to the top of the glove box or something similar. That way even if someone gains access and goes through the whole car it's unlikely they'd find the key. If they really wanted into your house that bad I'm sure they'd just break a window anyway, no key needed. Just an idea but real answer answer is......your baby needs her own crib, get a bigger garage!....LOL


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## PandaM3 (Apr 23, 2018)

Mike Land said:


> I can't answer all your questions but if the concern is someone finding the key in the car I'd say use some duct tape and hide it in the car in a place only you would know. Tape it to the top of the glove box or something similar. That way even if someone gains access and goes through the whole car it's unlikely they'd find the key. If they really wanted into your house that bad I'm sure they'd just break a window anyway, no key needed. Just an idea but real answer answer is......your baby needs her own crib, get a bigger garage!....LOL


Getting a larger house in Orange County is tough... anything in the $1million range is just going to be a 2 car garage, small driveway, small yard kind of house. You need to be closer to $2million+ for more than a 2 car garage... heck I just saw a video on a local developer with houses in the $4million range and still have a 2 car garge. In the older gentrifying hoods... I mean neighborhoods most homes in the $600k to $900k range will have a 2 car garage like mine. At least my driveway is big enough to have 4 cars in the driveway. That's why so many people are leaving california...

I've toyed with the idea of decreasing my kitchen size and taking out the dining room so I can have a 4 car garage... lol that did not go over too well haha. Or maybe raising the garage roof and installing 2 lifts haha. Might have to rent a wherehouse or enclosed storage unit for my weekend cars...

Anyhow back on topic


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

PandaM3 said:


> Getting a larger house in Orange County is tough... anything in the $1million range is just going to be a 2 car garage, small driveway, small yard kind of house. You need to be closer to $2million+ for more than a 2 car garage... heck I just saw a video on a local developer with houses in the $4million range and still have a 2 car garge. In the older gentrifying hoods... I mean neighborhoods most homes in the $600k to $900k range will have a 2 car garage like mine. At least my driveway is big enough to have 4 cars in the driveway. That's why so many people are leaving california...
> 
> I've toyed with the idea of decreasing my kitchen size and taking out the dining room so I can have a 4 car garage... lol that did not go over too well haha. Or maybe raising the garage roof and installing 2 lifts haha. Might have to rent a wherehouse or enclosed storage unit for my weekend cars...
> 
> Anyhow back on topic


I totally get it and was only kidding, I grew up in SoCal and that is the reason I live in AZ now. Sounds like you need less toys (not an option), a bigger garage (not affordable), or a new significant other who understands that cars are more important than kitchens....LOL!(just don't tell her I said that)


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

PandaM3 said:


> Getting a larger house in Orange County is tough... anything in the $1million range is just going to be a 2 car garage, small driveway, small yard kind of house. You need to be closer to $2million+ for more than a 2 car garage... heck I just saw a video on a local developer with houses in the $4million range and still have a 2 car garge. In the older gentrifying hoods... I mean neighborhoods most homes in the $600k to $900k range will have a 2 car garage like mine. At least my driveway is big enough to have 4 cars in the driveway. That's why so many people are leaving california...


Move to TEXAS, were everything is bigger, including the garages 
Seriously, I am from SoCal originally and left in '88 and would never move back.
The price of living is so much better here, but we do have these sometimes...


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## PandaM3 (Apr 23, 2018)

LUXMAN said:


> Move to TEXAS, were everything is bigger, including the garages
> Seriously, I am from SoCal originally and left in '88 and would never move back.
> The price of living is so much better here, but we do have these sometimes...
> 
> View attachment 8619


 Oh trust me I know. If we moved I'd want to move to Austin. They've got bbq places I like and more importantly they have Circuit of the America's for fun weekend track events. Plus comparing for example a Toll Brothers house there with a 6 car garage was around $600 to $700k last I checked. The same size Toll Brothers House here with a 2 car is $4million!!! Oh and my company has a few offices there too... so I could request a transfer... hmmm


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## Jarrod Skrehot (Dec 7, 2016)

amercier said:


> While telling my coworkers that my phone works as a key for the Model 3, they jokingly said they would grab my phone off my desk when I wasn't there and go take my car for a joyride. Not that I'm worried that they would actually do it, but it got me thinking - is that all it takes?


Did you actually ask this? Your phone is your primary key for your car. If not using your phone, you then have a key card. So yes, that is all it takes.


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## PandaM3 (Apr 23, 2018)

Maybe on a software update can be given the option to request login/ Face ID on the iphoneX prior to unlocking the car. That way even if someone walks away with the phone they still can’t get in.

I suppose the other option is to manually log in then back on again each time... but that’s too many steps.

Just having an alert pop up on the screen as you approach would be better.

Heck having an alert as the car locks when you walk away would be great too.


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