# Front plate presence & the law (global thread)



## ModFather (Apr 3, 2016)

JBsC6 said:


> Front license plate holder that does not require drilling into the front fascia would be a cool aftermarket modification to have. Unfortunately the police in many states mine included are pretty vigilant to give tickets when the cars are parked at say a mall if they don't have a front plate on the car...
> 
> A stylish solution that would not require drilling would be nice. Say down low maybe in the center or to the side? Car manufacturers are required to place the place holder at a required height where as the aftermarket solutions can be lower and a bit more stylish.
> 
> Police don't seem to ticket at all for low plates but rather no front plates are the issue.


I live in a front license plate State too, however the Highway Patrol seem to rarely ticket for the absence of a front plate. Some municipalities, like San Francisco, are more vigilant and tickets are somewhat common.

I am going to run a front plate. The last thing I want is DW to rip me a new one if *she* gets pulled over for lack of a front plate. I can live with a front plate depending on the location. I don't want it in the center of the front fascia! I agree with you, I want it down low and LE seems to be okay with that. I want to install the plate in front of the lower "grille" section. My concern is how that might effect battery cooling.

The time is coming when license plates and car pool lane stickers are no longer required. Each vehicle will have a specific electronic signature that can be read by roadside monitors. These will control speed violations, reckless driving, record auto accidents, car pool lane violations, DUI infractions, and who knows what else. It is coming, count on it. I don't have a problem with that scenario but I know that many people on this forum will.



> If any aftermarket companies are reading this thread?


I can guarantee they are watching. I don't know how many for certain, but I have identified at least two. That is why it is important to respond to the survey above as well as listing your preferences in a post for those things not on the survey. If there is a market, they will supply it.


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## ReD eXiLe (Jun 18, 2017)

It is unconstitutional to be cited by a machine because you must have the ability to confront your accuser in open court. That's why the FBI, ATF, DEA, or even local law enforcement must conduct surveillance activities on site to observe and report. The audio and video they capture during those activities only act as proof of what they will testify to seeing or hearing. The traffic cams that municipalities use are not viewed live and are not warranted for constant surveillance of everyone in the world that passes by. So they do not meet the standard and should always be thrown out of court when challenged. The problem is that when it comes to such things, highway robbery by any other name, cities and towns count on people not knowing the law, signing the ticket when it comes in the mail, and paying the fines without challenge because, "Ah! They got me! I'd might as well pay..." No. You shouldn't, unless you feel fighting such blatant abuse of power isn't worth your time. But simply asking the Court to allow you to question the peace officer that pulled you over and cited you that day should be enough to get the case dismissed -- because that didn't happen. The next question that follows naturally when that individual cannot be produced, on the court date that you answered a subpoena/summons for, would blow the case out of the water, "Then where is he/she? I have the right to confront my accuser!" The Judges know the law, but they also know that cities count on the revenue generated through the use of traffic cameras. The government is under no obligation to prove their own case wrong.


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## John (Apr 16, 2016)

I'll just go with the "taped on" front license plate holder they will provide. Not worth moving (or removing) for me, I'm sure they'll locate it in a good place.


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## JBsC6 (Oct 17, 2016)

I would like an aftermarket solution. I don't know if tape would hold ...but if an aftermarket company sold the tape and gave a nice location to mount the plate that would be fine.

Doesn't have to be a million dollars ..I just want a solution that looks good.

Thanks guys. I'm glad I'm not alone. I prefer to follow the law so the police don't have to write my vehicle tickets.

The lower location wouldn't bother the police as long as the plate is visible...

The police need us to make their lives easier to protect and serve,


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## ModFather (Apr 3, 2016)

ReD eXiLe said:


> It is unconstitutional to be cited by a machine because you must have the ability to confront your accuser in open court.


We are getting waaay off topic here, but briefly, you are correct, that is the law now. I'm saying the law is going to change at some time in the indeterminate future as a result of cost cutting, general disregard for speed limits and safety, and evolving to a brave new world. My point was that a LEO won't need to read a license plate, they will read your cars electronic signature on their onboard scanner when they pull you over for speeding after they clock you in their cruiser. Just like FSD replacing a fully involved driver(we all know that the driver's attention will wander with FSD even though they are supposed to be fully involved), things are changing and changing fast. I will not debate this further in this thread.


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## ReD eXiLe (Jun 18, 2017)

ModFather said:


> We are getting waaay off topic here, but briefly, you are correct, that is the law now. I'm saying the law is going to change at some time in the indeterminate future as a result of cost cutting, general disregard for speed limits and safety, and evolving to a brave new world. My point was that a LEO won't need to read a license plate, they will read your cars electronic signature on their onboard scanner when they pull you over for speeding after they clock you in their cruiser. Just like FSD replacing a fully involved driver(we all know that the driver's attention will wander with FSD even though they are supposed to be fully involved), things are changing and changing fast. I will not debate this further in this thread.


The remedy for things that are unconstitutional is to challenge them in the Supreme Court of the United States. Unfortunately, certain things that are blatantly unconstitutional are purposely not reviewed by SCOTUS. Changing laws is a lot easier than changing the Constitution, and for the past fifteen years or so, getting SCOTUS to acknowledge their duty in ruling against bad State laws or Acts of Congress has been much harder than it used to be. If they don't review the law at all, then no precedent is set, and that which should be illegal remains in effect. Discussions need not be debates.


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