# Recent Road Trip Observations



## JDM3 (Jun 22, 2018)

I've got a fairly high mileage M3 LR RWD, at over 82,000km since we picked it up in June 2018. Since this past August, we've been making a 1400km weekend road trip to visit my daughter at university. I've made the trip 8 times since mid-August, three with my Model 3, four with a rental and once with my Dodge Journey. My most recent trip was this past Sunday/Monday having dropping her back after the Thanksgiving weekend. We travel from north of Toronto to northeast PA and as you can imagine this past Sunday/Monday, we were hit with some horrible weather. Here are some observations:

- Quickest one way trip (650km each way) in ICE - 6 hours 9 minutes - includes a gas stop, a bio break and quick crossing at the border
- Quickest one way trip in TM3 - 7 hours 35 minutes (not this past weekend) - includes two charging stops and quick crossing at the border

- Even in mild weather, I cannot make the trip with one charge. I usually drive at 120-125km/h and know that this impacts my range, but I find it difficult to drive at 100km/h for 6+ hours.
- In order to make it with one charge, my first leg would be around 430km. My best mileage has been 406km on a full charge in the summer of 2018.
- In colder weather, I usually charge to 150km over the range I need to make it to the desired SC. My first return leg was 267km, and I charged to 420+ to make it comfortably.
- During my ICE rentals, I drove a 2019 Chevy Malibu, 2019 Jeep Wrangler Sahara, 2019 Mini Countryman and a 2019 Dodge Durango RT. The Malibu was the best for gas mileage, the Durango was the best for comfort and power while the Jeep was hell on a long road trip and the Countryman was just awful. BTW, I was able to rent each car for $60 for a four day weekend. Each time I chose a Hyundai Elantra and each time they didn't have that vehicle and gave me the others instead. Primary reason for renting, the price was right and I wasn't putting 1400km on my Tesla or Journey.
- As much as I like getting to where I need to be as quickly as possible, there's nothing compared to the comfort of driving with EAP on my TM3. My biggest pet peeve with the ICE cars was not having TACC. It just made it more tiring to drive.
- Last point regarding the terrible weather this past weekend, going it took me 9 hours, return 8.5 hours. On my way down, the Grimsby SC was full so it took twice as long to charge. Drove in freezing drizzle most of the way there. On the return trip, it snowed heavily through Northeastern PA and up to about 100km south of Buffalo. At some points the highway was covered with 3-5" of snow. The TM3 handled it like a champ.

So at the end of all of this, I am a little torn on the timing difference to get to the same place ICE vs. EV, especially when you don't have a lot of time to get to your destination and back. I would trade in my TM3 for a new one if it provided 800km of range (600km usable).

Does anyone else feel the same way when it comes to the convenience of quick refueling of an ICE?


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

Not me. I've road tripped about 25,000 miles over the last 15 months in my P3D. I enjoy the break from driving that the forced supercharging stops afford. Today, I barely avoided idle fees, because I needed to finish my game of 2048! I will admit that my travels are almost all leisure trips, and I'm sure that makes added time less important. But I also think that this travel attitude has helped to relax me, and helped me realize that an extra hour of travel time is just not a big deal.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

JDM3 said:


> Does anyone else feel the same way when it comes to the convenience of quick refueling of an ICE?


I posted my thoughts on this (and the future) in one of the cybertruck threads.
Substitute 480 km for 300 miles (and 800 km for 500 miles) as needed. 


garsh said:


> I view 300 miles as a *minimum* for any vehicle that you plan on road-tripping regularly. Remember that a 300-mile EPA rating rarely translates into real-world scenarios.
> 
> Driving at 70-80 mph
> Driving in freezing weather
> ...


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## AutopilotFan (Oct 6, 2018)

JDM3 said:


> Does anyone else feel the same way when it comes to the convenience of quick refueling of an ICE?


You may need a few more data points before drawing a conclusion.

I did a 450 mile trip this weekend that usually takes about 9 hours. It took 12 because of traffic. I had 3 charging stops when I usually take 2, ALL of them because *I *needed a break rather than the car being low on charge. It was rather nice to take my time knowing that the car was gaining range without my active participation. (And it's like a little clubhouse over at the Superchargers!)


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Here's a hypothetical thought.

The Roadster will be offered with a 200 kWh battery - twice as big as a current Model S or X. And that battery should allow it to have over 600 miles of range. Let's assume for a minute that Tesla allows charging it in two separate banks of 100 kWh, each with its own charging connector. Let's pretend that the battery can accept a full 250kW charging rate from 0% - 60% SOC (Today's Model 3 can handle 150kW from 0%-60%). Then assume that you plug this bad boy into two 250kW V3 superchargers. Yeah, I can't see Tesla allowing a single vehicle to occupy two superchargers at once (other than a prototype Semi), but this is just a thought experiment.

You would add 120 kWh charging from 0% to 60% SOC. At a rate of 500 kW, this means you would be adding :shortcake:*360 miles of range in under 14.5 minutes*.:shortcake:  Now we're getting competitive with gasoline fill up times, with the added bonus of charging at home for everything other than road trips.

Think about that for a minute. *This doesn't require any additional improvements to Tesla's current technology. * They could easily create a 500 kW V4 Supercharger station that is little more than slapping two V3 stations into a single cabinet.

What this does require is for Tesla to continue to drive down the cost of producing batteries so that people can afford it. While the Roadster is crazy expensive, the 500-mile Cybertruck is a lot cheaper than the Roadster as well as the S and X, and my guess is that the battery in that thing may be close to 200 kWh as well. So they continue to make great progress on that front.


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## Foxtrotter (Sep 12, 2017)

One thing that you are missing in discussing "road trips" is that you are not including destination chargers (all varieties of L2 chargers at overnight lodging). These are very useful and greatly reduce time spent in superchargers if worked into an itinerary. (I really don't consider a long one-day run a road trip in the usual sense as the goal is the purpose not the journey.) We have done a couple of multiple week road trips in the West with fast one day legs on either end that were heavily powered by superchargers with the intervening 2000 or so miles almost all on destination chargers. On our most recent 3000 mile trip around Utah, Az, Nm, and Colorado about half of our charging took place on superchargers. 5.5 h total mostly spent eating, doing starbucks, and the johns. 

We only sat in the car waiting twice. Once for a half hour watching a movie and once for 15 min clarifying the route we were going to use in contradiction to the navigator's chosen route. Most of the supercharger use was on the first day and last day of trip when we were trying to make miles. The biggest issue we have had with road tripping is when we go to an area with no SC or destination chargers and one wants to stay a little while and drive around. That can quickly eat miles and need careful planning. On our most recent trip this was the case only at Monument Valley. One could usually find an RV park but that isn't very convenient or time efficient so I've just planned around them.

That said I have told my wife that when we can get a vehicle with 400 or 500 miles of range we will as it would just require less planning when in marginal areas like the one on our last trip. So I loaned Elon $100 for the plaid cybertruck.


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## SalisburySam (Jun 6, 2018)

Foxtrotter said:


> ...I loaned Elon $100 for the plaid cybertruck.


Love it, thanks for the chuckle. In my case, I made a $100 charitable contribution.


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## JDM3 (Jun 22, 2018)

All good responses. To the point about a road trip versus a drive, I do get that. These particular runs for me were far from a "let's pack the family in the car and drive to the beach road trip". Given that I usually have a weekend to get in and out and either try to spend some time with my daughter or catch her soccer game, the faster I can make that trip, the better. I wouldn't change my car for a minute (except for more range as noted above - and I did also donate my $150 CDN for a tri-motor triangle truck). However, saving 2-3 hours on these weekend runs does make a big difference for me. I'll continue to swap between my Tesla and ICE options for these trips. Perhaps my situation is a little more unique. Here's hoping I can get to a point where I have the luxury of time.


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