# Model 3 with RWD is all the fast you need!



## SoFlaModel3

Last night driving home from dinner my wife and I needed to kill some time to ensure our kids were sleeping so we didn't have to start (the whole going to bed cycle) over upon our arrival. Well what better way to kill time than in a Model 3.

Anyway, we stumbled upon a quiet road that I've never been on before and I said to my wife this is the perfect road to test the performance of the car.

I said put your head back in the seat and she obliged, which meant it was go time!

We were going 20 MPH and I floored it. In a split second we were going 50 MPH before I slowed being unfamiliar with the road we were on.

My wife turned to me and said "I'm nauseous". She looked like she was just on a roller coaster. She asked me if I felt the same way, but of course I did not.

Anyway, I thought that was a funny/fun story to share. The moral of the story is the single motor RWD is plenty fast and tons of fun. The instant torque is simply a blast. Those waiting for dual motor AWD, unless you think you absolutely need it I would suggest not delaying the fun. Especially not with Elon's overnight Tweet that we won't see any additional complications to the configuration until they reach 5,000 units per week.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/982848849361289222


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## BigBri

I drive a 2017 Leaf which has a 0-60 north of 11 seconds and the instant torque still throws you back in the seat a bit. It's tonnes of fun and really useful. Can just slam it to get upto highway speeds and unlike an ICE you don't have the motor screaming at 3000RPM sounding like an impending explosion.


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## LUXMAN

Yes, the leaf I own is fun, but the 3 is FUNNER! I am gonna get myself in trouble 

But seriously, I can get in front of just about anyone from a light.


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## Rick59

For many, the issue is traction, not speed, when talking about AWD vs RWD.


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## BigBri

LUXMAN said:


> Yes, the leaf I saw fun, but the 3 is FUNNER! I am gonna get myself in trouble
> 
> But seriously, I can get in front of just about anyone from a light.


Yeah I'm really excited for twice the speed+. All those pickup trucks I race at stoplights now better watch out haha.


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## Paul Spiers

Rick59 said:


> For many, the issue is traction, not speed, when talking about AWD vs RWD.


The traction from AWD is fantastic in the winter time. I leave everybody behind at the lights on snow and ice covered roads. However, when the roads are dry, there is no advantage. Also, when the roads are slippery, it doesn't help you stop any faster, that is purely a function of tire traction. RWD with winter tires and traction control should be fine, at least in southern Ontario winters.


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## Michael Russo

Paul Spiers said:


> (...)AWD with winter tires and traction control should be fine, at least in southern Ontario winters.


Hi Paul, guess you meant to start your last sentence with RWD, no?


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## Spiffywerks

LUXMAN said:


> Yes, the leaf I saw fun, but the 3 is FUNNER! I am gonna get myself in trouble
> 
> But seriously, I can get in front of just about anyone from a light.


And a Model 3 D Ludicrous will be even funnerer!


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## Paul Spiers

Michael Russo said:


> Hi Paul, guess you meant to start your last sentence with RWD, no?


Yep, that's what I meant to say. Edited to read RWD!

Thanks Michael.


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## SoFlaModel3

Rick59 said:


> For many, the issue is traction, not speed, when talking about AWD vs RWD.


From what the Now You Know guys shared seems to be quite solid with RWD + Snow Tires. I can't vouch for it myself obviously.


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## Watts4me

So what is Tesla at now with the M3? 2k a week?


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## Phil Kulak

I only use about a quarter inch of the pedel travel. Honestly, I'd love a chill mode.


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## LUXMAN

Watts4me said:


> So what is Tesla at now with the M3? 2k a week?


Yup. The last week of March they did 2,020 Model 3s and said that they were going to do 2,000 the first week of April, same as the S and X combined. But supposedly they will be at 5k by end of June. Elon is sticking to that timeline.


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## Enginerd

SoFlaModel3 said:


> My wife turned to me and said "I'm nauseous".


That was my experience when I rented an S as well. It's as much fun as you *_want*_ to have. Some reach their fun quota before others.


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## John

My wife and college-age daughter both REALLY enjoy the acceleration. LIke, maybe more than I do.

I will agree rationally with the statement that "it's fast enough for all practical purposes," but I'm kinda getting used to it now, and may be somewhat pining for a future Ludi 3. 

The fully-autonomous PL"AI"D, if you will. 

If it was a droid it would be the 3PLD.


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## Twiglett

Phil Kulak said:


> I only use about a quarter inch of the pedel travel. Honestly, I'd love a chill mode.


I used to think that as well.
But after a while of driving an EV it becomes second nature to not need it.
I started with using ECO mode all the time before I learned to just use a sensible right foot.
Chill mode is simply engaged in any car by pressing lighter on the throttle


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## Rhaekar

It feels like it's enough until I drive my friend's P90DL then it reminds me that I'll be upgrading as soon as a 3 PLRD comes out.


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## rareohs

Tomorrow will be 1 week with my 3 and I agree; RWD is all I need!

I had so much fun with the acceleration from the BMW i3 I leased for 2 yrs but holy Toledo this is another thing altogether! Just throws your body into the seat.

I did like that the i3 had an eco mode that limited acceleration, but as other have pointed out if you want to max your battery just slow down... in a Tesla Model 3, however, that is much easier said than done! :sunglasses:


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## rareohs

also the i3 did surprisingly well in the snow and ice, which I presume is from the weight and how low/evenly distributed it is... so hopefully the model 3 is the same


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## Bokonon

rareohs said:


> also the i3 did surprisingly well in the snow and ice, which I presume is from the weight and how low/evenly distributed it is...


Those absurdly skinny tires certainly help too!


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## ahagge

Phil Kulak said:


> I only use about a quarter inch of the pedel travel. Honestly, I'd love a chill mode.


Oh. I thought it already had it. I guess it's just for S & X right now, huh? Hopefully it will come. I guess in the meantime, you could always drive around in Valet Mode all day...


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## LUXMAN

ahagge said:


> Oh. I thought it already had it. I guess it's just for S & X right now, huh? Hopefully it will come. I guess in the meantime, you could always drive around in Valet Mode all day...


Nope not yet for the Chill Mode. I bet it doesn't come except to the P versions.
But I see your day is tomorrow! Good luck sleeping!


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## Quicksilver

rareohs said:


> Tomorrow will be 1 week with my 3 and I agree; RWD is all I need!
> 
> I had so much fun with the acceleration from the BMW i3 I leased for 2 yrs but holy Toledo this is another thing altogether! Just throws your body into the seat.
> 
> I did like that the i3 had an eco mode that limited acceleration, but as other have pointed out if you want to max your battery just slow down... in a Tesla Model 3, however, that is much easier said than done! :sunglasses:


Glad to hear about the difference from an i3 to the Model 3. The i3 was pretty fast in my own experience as a lease also. If you say the Model 3 "is another thing altogether!," I guess I'll be driving it like I stole it!!


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## mig

Quicksilver said:


> Glad to hear about the difference from an i3 to the Model 3. The i3 was pretty fast in my own experience as a lease also. If you say the Model 3 "is another thing altogether!," I guess I'll be driving it like I stole it!!


You know, it felt to me at first like the i3 was a bit snappier or thrilling when accelerating. However, I think I now have figured out why. The handling in the i3 is nowhere near up to the task of "handling" its acceleration, so you feel a bit out of control. The handling of the Model 3 is so nice, you hardly notice you are suddenly going 85...no comparison really.


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## John

Anybody ever seen the power meter go all the way to the extreme right?
Mine always stops ~5% short, leading me to believe that there is some uncorking that can be done.
Maybe it's just situational, that's why I'm asking.


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## SoFlaModel3

John said:


> Anybody ever seen the power meter go all the way to the extreme right?
> Mine always stops ~5% short, leading me to believe that there is some uncorking that can be done.
> Maybe it's just situational, that's why I'm asking.


Are you talking about the dot at the far right? If so, I get it during an extended drive in autopilot and then seemingly as soon as I turn off autopilot I get the completed line the whole way to the right end of the power meter. Very strange!


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## Quicksilver

mig said:


> You know, it felt to me at first like the i3 was a bit snappier or thrilling when accelerating. However, I think I now have figured out why. The handling in the i3 is nowhere near up to the task of "handling" its acceleration, so you feel a bit out of control. The handling of the Model 3 is so nice, you hardly notice you are suddenly going 85...no comparison really.


I recall the i3 being a bit jittery under acceleration so your out of control idea is right. Looking forward to the more refined control with the 3!


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## EinSV

Lots of focus on 0-60 mph/0-100kph (understandably!)

Passing speed gets less attention but is important for everyday driving, and the Model 3 LR RWD also shines in this area.

Here are numbers from Motor Trend for 45-65 MPH versus some other sports sedans (2017 models but probably will be similar for 2018):

*Model 3 LR RWD 2.1 sec*
Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.4 sec
Audi A4 2.0T Quattro 2.7 sec
Volvo S60 T6 AWD 2.7 sec
BMW 330i 2.9 sec
Cadillac ATS 2.0T 2.9 sec
Mercedes Benz C300 (Sport) 3.2 sec
Jaguar XE 25t 3.3 sec
Lexus IS 200t F Sport 3.7 sec

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesl...e-tesla-model-3-long-range-first-test-review/
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/alfa...jaguar-xe-lexus-is-200t-volvo-s60-comparison/


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## John

SoFlaModel3 said:


> Are you talking about the dot at the far right? If so, I get it during an extended drive in autopilot and then seemingly as soon as I turn off autopilot I get the completed line the whole way to the right end of the power meter. Very strange!


No, the dotted line-on either end of the meter-means there's an additional limit in that direction. What I mean is that even when there's no dotted section, I can't get it to go all the way to the end by flooring the accelerator. Can anyone else? (Means you have to stare at the screen while flooring it, new challenge for you...)


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## SoFlaModel3

John said:


> No, the dotted line-on either end of the meter-means there's an additional limit in that direction. What I mean is that even when there's no dotted section, I can't get it to go all the way to the end by flooring the accelerator. Can anyone else? (Means you have to stare at the screen while flooring it, new challenge for you...)


Oh I see what you're saying and yes same on my end. Flooring it doesn't hit the end of the power meter.


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## NJturtlePower

Agree about the Model 3 LR performance specs as they stand.

My current Chrysler 300S w/ 5.7L Hemi sure is fun and puts out 363HP / 394 TQ BUT will likely lose to the 3 in just about EVERY performance aspect including 0-60 MPH, Rolling Start 5-60 MPH, 30-50 MPH, 50-70 MPH, 1/4 mile runs & Skidpad... 

*Performance as tested by Car & Driver - 15' Chrysler 300S V8 vs 18' Tesla Model 3 LR #7288







*


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## John

SoFlaModel3 said:


> Oh I see what you're saying and yes same on my end. Flooring it doesn't hit the end of the power meter.


I know, right?

I suspect there's a voice command or a code you can type in that uncorks that.

I'm not normally a speed freak (well, at least I don't think I am), but I'd drop $1000 right now to have that. Oh, wait-maybe that's the definition of a speed freak right there...

But I'm hoping you can type in "Mach 5" or "liftoff" or something and get it done. Let's all start holding down the T and typing, please...


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## nonStopSwagger

Anybody know if the model 3 RWD is still able to achieve 4.6 - 4.8 zero to sixty from the factory these days after the latest firmware updates? Seems too fast and will be bumping up against the AWD's time of 4.5 seconds.

Was it nerfed?


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## SoFlaModel3

nonStopSwagger said:


> Anybody know if the model 3 RWD is still able to achieve 4.6 - 4.8 zero to sixty from the factory these days after the latest firmware updates? Seems too fast and will be bumping up against the AWD's time of 4.5 seconds.
> 
> Was it nerfed?


@Rafael literally just tested it 7 minutes ago. Looks like we have been nerfed indeed to match the numbers Tesla suggests (5.1 0-60).

Funny the dual motor gets 4.5, but meanwhile the RWD handles that as is (without the nerfing).


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1017890997752254465


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## PNWmisty

nonStopSwagger said:


> Anybody know if the model 3 RWD is still able to achieve 4.6 - 4.8 zero to sixty from the factory these days after the latest firmware updates? Seems too fast and will be bumping up against the AWD's time of 4.5 seconds.


Its original spec was 0-60mph 5.1 seconds. Did Tesla release some that were faster? I don't know but mine certainly feels faster than an ICE car that can do it in 5 seconds. And it's easier and more instantaneous too. I have the RWD LR version of course. The short-range Model 3 will be a touch slower, but still faster than needed for easy onramp merging, passing slower cars/trucks and bringing ice cream home before it melts.


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## PNWmisty

LUXMAN said:


> Nope not yet for the Chill Mode. I bet it doesn't come except to the P versions.


For those reading this at a later date, I'll add that "Chill" mode did come to even the LR Model 3 (and I bet the SR will have it too).


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## PNWmisty

stuff said:


> Bingo! I could care less about the speed, but as my driveway has 100+ ft vertical climb from the house to the road, AWD is a necessity in the winter.


Really? I used to regularly do a 3000 ft. vertical climb in winter conditions 50+ times/winter in nothing but 2WD with never a problem. 100 ft. sounds like nothing. Maybe you use summer tires?


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## LUXMAN

SoFlaModel3 said:


> @Rafael literally just tested it 7 minutes ago. Looks like we have been nerfed indeed to match the numbers Tesla suggests (5.1 0-60).
> 
> Funny the dual motor gets 4.5, but meanwhile the RWD handles that as is (without the nerfing).
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1017890997752254465


So what is Nerfing?

And what does he mean "another drive unit"?


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## SoFlaModel3

LUXMAN said:


> So what is Nerfing?
> 
> And what does he mean "another drive unit"?


I have no idea why it's called nerfing, but basically means a software update limited our acceleration when the can can (and originally did) handle more.

On the drive unit, it looks like Alec had a drive unit failure and a replacement one week into ownership.


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## LUXMAN

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I have no idea why it's called nerfing, but basically means a software update limited our acceleration when the can can (and originally did) handle more.
> 
> On the drive unit, it looks like Alec had a drive unit failure and a replacement one week into ownership.


AH. Well I launched RUBY yesterday with about 82% charge and it was insane


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## LUXMAN

LUXMAN said:


> AH. Well I launched RUBY yesterday with about 82% charge and it was insane


I thought they fixed the accel slow down in 21.9

I just got that Dragy app so will have to test this out soon


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## SoFlaModel3

LUXMAN said:


> I thought they fixed the accel slow down in 21.9
> 
> I just got that Dragy app so will have to test this out soon


I think they did fix it, but apparently not all the way back...


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## GDN

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I think they did fix it, but apparently not all the way back...


Hmmm. Just downloaded Dragy. Now to get to drive the car without the partner again. Not sure he will approve.


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## LUXMAN

GDN said:


> Hmmm. Just downloaded Dragy. Now to get to drive the car without the partner again. Not sure he will approve.


What he don't know...


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## Kizzy

LUXMAN said:


> So what is Nerfing?
> 
> And what does he mean "another drive unit"?


"Nerfing" is a reference to the toys under the brand name Nerf that are intentional safer versions of other play things by making them using foam. Foam footballs, darts, and arrows are examples. Specifically, the term means to make something less powerful or effective.


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## scaots

Does anyone know what charge state you need to get full acceleration? My normal charge is only 70%. I only fill it up when going on a trip and then I would get yelled at if I punch it, plus all the luggage would be shifting around.


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## garsh

scaots said:


> Does anyone know what charge state you need to get full acceleration?


What is your definition of "full"?

If you mean "Tesla's stated 0-60mph time", then I think you can get that at just about any SOC (state of charge). Some people think that Tesla is "under-advertising" the car's acceleration. Another theory is that they realize that electric cars can only deliver their highest-possible acceleration under specific battery conditions, so for the 3 they are instead providing a more reasonable number that can be reached under various battery states.

If instead, you are asking how to achieve the fastest acceleration possible, then we can probably look at the P100D for some pointers. When you setup the P100D for a ludicrous-mode drag race, you want the battery to be as full as possible, and they heat up the battery! So for the best acceleration numbers for a 3, charge the battery to 100%, and try to race on a hot day.


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## nonStopSwagger

GDN said:


> Hmmm. Just downloaded Dragy. Now to get to drive the car without the partner again. Not sure he will approve.


Any results to share from Dragy? I'm curious if anyone can get in the 4.6 ~ 4.8 range anymore with the RWD 3.


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## MelindaV

GDN said:


> Hmmm. Just downloaded Dragy. Now to get to drive the car without the partner again. Not sure he will approve.


he's not on here, right?


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## GDN

MelindaV said:


> he's not on here, right?


No, but I also mentioned to him in passing last night there was some rumor and things being tossed around that Tesla might be limiting the car. He wasn't happy. He was like most here, if we've paid for it and it can do it we shouldn't be limited. He wants to know what it will really do. I told him about the app last night and now he really wants to see how fast it is. I didn't think he would be on board. I think he probably drives it harder when he is by himself than when I'm around. I'm ok with that, that is part of what makes this car so cool to own and drive.

Now we just need a decent place to try a few launches from a stop. Anyone else have recent numbers from the app? Is the app legit enough to give us good numbers?

Anyone have any advice on getting a good run other than a safe road, flat, press brake twice for hold perhaps, then just all the way to the floor til 60 or just a bit past for measurement?

We've got a good toll road with a good entrance ramp and dedicated entrance lane for a good half mile. Speed limit is 70. Thinking after evening rush hour should be good and very safe.


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## MelindaV

GDN said:


> We've got a good toll road with a good entrance ramp and dedicated entrance lane for a good half mile. Speed limit is 70. Thinking after evening rush hour should be good and very safe.


and my experience driving around Dallas (for work in a rental car), that is pretty much the norm for any freeway entry, unless you want to be run off the road by a monster sized 4WD pickup, so no one should even notice anything out of the ordinary


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## GDN

Ah - we do love our trucks in TX. That is one of the other vehicles in the family, but not lifted. I don't need all of that.

A quick note on the Dragy app, looks like it is not a stand alone app just anyone can use. You must have their GPS receiver that the app connects to - $149 on their web site. I thought we had an app that would use the GPS from the phone.

If anyone finds out differently let us know.


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## LUXMAN

GDN said:


> No, but I also mentioned to him in passing last night there was some rumor and things being tossed around that Tesla might be limiting the car. He wasn't happy. He was like most here, if we've paid for it and it can do it we shouldn't be limited. He wants to know what it will really do. I told him about the app last night and now he really wants to see how fast it is. I didn't think he would be on board. I think he probably drives it harder when he is by himself than when I'm around. I'm ok with that, that is part of what makes this car so cool to own and drive.
> 
> Now we just need a decent place to try a few launches from a stop. Anyone else have recent numbers from the app? Is the app legit enough to give us good numbers?
> 
> Anyone have any advice on getting a good run other than a safe road, flat, press brake twice for hold perhaps, then just all the way to the floor til 60 or just a bit past for measurement?
> 
> We've got a good toll road with a good entrance ramp and dedicated entrance lane for a good half mile. Speed limit is 70. Thinking after evening rush hour should be good and very safe.


I did mine on the 121 Tollway frontage. Able to get out abs stop and launch between waves of cars from the lights. But I need to go try again as she feels faster again.

Re what charge state gives most power, I was told by Tesla when we conversed about the slow down, that above 90% would achieve the best results. 
I need to find that email and will post later if I do. I need to make multiple runs at different SOC and see.

I downloaded Draggy but haven't signed up yet. Was hoping this would be a good solution since the phone has GPS. We will see. Last time I timed it, I used a video editer that had a fine timeline so I could nail it down.


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## PNWmisty

LUXMAN said:


> I downloaded Draggy but haven't signed up yet. Was hoping this would be a good solution since the phone has GPS. We will see. Last time I timed it, I used a video editer that had a fine timeline so I could nail it down.


0-60 mph is a very time sensitive measurement since it happens so quickly. While GPS is capable of very accurate speed measurements at a steady state of speed, it is generally terrible for instantaneous readings. Also, using video of the speedometer introduces whatever time lag there is between the readout and the actual speed (since the speed is changing so rapidly) but that might be your best bet, depending upon how much built-in lag there is. I imagine the auto rags get around these limitations by using radar? Or perhaps a separate speed measuring device that is independent of the car (that way all readings of all cars are directly comparable).


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## The Model 3 Guy

Totally agree. Fast enough for me.


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## nonStopSwagger

Looks like the draggy app is not enough to record 0-60's ? I see a GPS they make on amazon, which you position in you car and connect to your phone with Bluetooth. This enables accurate 0-60 times.

Less accurate alternative is a camera mounted in your car that has a view of your speedo. You record the launch in high speed (240 fps+) , then carefully review the times of the start and stop frames.


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## tencate

I managed this 0-60 time once, almost full charge, was a hot day and evening and the tires didn't complain when I mashed the GO pedal like they often do. This is an early G-Tech which works pretty well. But I haven't had time to go out and repeat the testing a few more times. Not enough hours in the day for fun stuff. But an enticing run anyway.


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## nonStopSwagger

tencate said:


> I managed this 0-60 time once, almost full charge, was a hot day and evening and the tires didn't complain when I mashed the GO pedal like they often do. This is an early G-Tech which works pretty well. But I haven't had time to go out and repeat the testing a few more times. Not enough hours in the day for fun stuff. But an enticing run anyway.
> 
> View attachment 11702


Wow, that's an awesome time for RWD. Stock tires? When was the picture taken? Recent firmware?

(My money is that this was on an older firmware, before Tesla allegedly slowed down the RWD cars. I hope I'm wrong)


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## phigment

nonStopSwagger said:


> Wow, that's an awesome time for RWD. Stock tires? When was the picture taken? Recent firmware?
> 
> (My money is that this was on an older firmware, before Tesla allegedly slowed down the RWD cars. I hope I'm wrong)


Assuming this is a recent trial, it looks like firmware 2018.21.9 at least.
https://teslaownersonline.com/threads/autopilot-2-0-2-5-official-thread.1490/page-29#post-115067


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## nonStopSwagger

phigment said:


> Assuming this is a recent trial, it looks like firmware 2018.21.9 at least.
> https://teslaownersonline.com/threads/autopilot-2-0-2-5-official-thread.1490/page-29#post-115067


Found the original picture of "that time" from another thread. It was on a slight downhill, and was taken in Late may. Which points to no nerf. Maybe.


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## tencate

Wow, you guys sure are fast.  Good sleuthing and glad you found the original posting. Yes, that was done on a slight downhill and in fact, we were discussing whether there was any slowdown back during the original post. I hadn't noticed anything and thought I'd get out the G-Tech and try a couple of runs to see what sort of times I would get. 7000 ft altitude btw. Nothing very carefully controlled, and I haven't had a chance to go repeat it either, but it was pretty darn quick, I certainly didn't notice any difference in performance since back when I first got the car. I'm stuck at 21.9 and have been for quite a while. FWIW, my VIN is 2xxx, with the firm suspension, the old fold-flat (but not very supportive) rear seats, and Alcantara trim. Even after 6 months, this car is still all the fast I need. You can drive this car really _really_ fast. I occasionally autocross my other cars; I'm sure this one would run circles around those.


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## JWardell

After my first day of driving I'm pretty confident it is software limited. Unless these stock tires suck. It does not take off nearly as violently as when I rode in You You's car..and that was back in 15-degree weather! Certainly slower than the S, too.
Am I saying I regret getting the RWD? Nope...as soon as I include a turn and feel that rear end wanting to step out a bit all smiles are doubled!
I REALLY hope they can increase the regen. It's regularly not as strong as I would like, certainly not as much as the S which I drove in just last week. Give us a few more level choices.


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## tencate

JWardell said:


> After my first day of driving I'm pretty confident it is software limited.


You do have the new softer squishier suspension tho. My car feels much snappier than a colleague's car (recent delivery). Just sayin'  I'm afraid since we all didn't make any careful measurements, it's pretty hard to quantify. Subjectively? I personally haven't noticed any changes at all from the very first software I had, 2017 something... but, YMMV. My wife still says full-out acceleration makes her stomach all queasy and tells me not to do that.  I'm also thinking from Tesla's point of view, it's hard to sell a "Performance" version of the car if the stock version is already wicked fast. Doubt we'll ever truly know. I should go back to that stretch of NM4 and try a few more runs! Advertised is 5.1 s right? I'm quite sure I'm faster than that still. Advertised range is 310 miles too and I know I'm doing better than that as well.


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## tencate

Oh yeah, the stock tires are OK, a bit above average. They're rated 500 A A. (Compare that with the extreme summer performance tires on my Triumph at 200 A A.) I think the Tesla tires actually stick a bit better now that I've got 13k miles on them. "Flight Proven"?


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## nonStopSwagger

JWardell said:


> After my first day of driving I'm pretty confident it is software limited. Unless these stock tires suck. It does not take off nearly as violently as when I rode in You You's car..and that was back in 15-degree weather! Certainly slower than the S, too.


After reading this, I'm glad I decided to hold out for an AWD model...


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## iChris93

stuff said:


> Let's both just hope we are still saying this come Dec 31st, otherwise that Extra Motor just jumped to being a $11.5K option. With New England winters you can justify that price point a lot easier than I can now in southern Missouri. (I used to live in Milford, and absolutely loved Autumns there.)


No, it would only jump to $7,750. Then $9,625. Then $11,500 at the end of next year.


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## nonStopSwagger

stuff said:


> Let's both just hope we are still saying this come Dec 31st, otherwise that Extra Motor just jumped to being a $11.5K option. With New England winters you can justify that price point a lot easier than I can now in southern Missouri. (I used to live in Milford, and absolutely loved Autumns there.)


I'd be pretty bummed if I didn't get the car this year. I reserved the morning of 4/1/16, its been a long wait.


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## Wooloomooloo

SoFlaModel3 said:


> Anyway, I thought that was a funny/fun story to share. The moral of the story is the single motor RWD is plenty fast and tons of fun. The instant torque is simply a blast. Those waiting for dual motor AWD, unless you think you absolutely need it I would suggest not delaying the fun. Especially not with Elon's overnight Tweet that we won't see any additional complications to the configuration until they reach 5,000 units per week.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/982848849361289222


it's funny you say "don't delay" because if I was not ordering a Performance Model 3, given when I made my reservation, I'd be waiting almost a year longer than I am now.

I know you made the post in April (hindsight eh?) but it's funny to read it today.


----------



## JWardell

Day three, and as an engineer who does this stuff...I think Tesla put a bit more of a ramp on the first quarter second of acceleration. It just doesn't do the violent take off that I have experienced in all other teslas as well as You You's car. Of course, most people would prefer that bit of smoothness. But I hate knowing what it is capable of... I have faith that Tesla will eventually add more granular settings to the GUI for both acceleration (Yes, I like getting beat up!) and regen (I miss downshifting from 6th to 2nd, bring it on!)


----------



## SoFlaModel3

JWardell said:


> Day three, and as an engineer who does this stuff...I think Tesla put a bit more of a ramp on the first quarter second of acceleration. It just doesn't do the violent take off that I have experienced in all other teslas as well as You You's car. Of course, most people would prefer that bit of smoothness. But I hate knowing what it is capable of... I have faith that Tesla will eventually add more granular settings to the GUI for both acceleration (Yes, I like getting beat up!) and regen (I miss downshifting from 6th to 2nd, bring it on!)


It was a lot more violent before they nerfed the acceleration. Still not like a Model S, but definitely more than it is now.


----------



## garsh

JWardell said:


> Day three, and as an engineer who does this stuff...I think Tesla put a bit more of a ramp on the first quarter second of acceleration. It just doesn't do the violent take off that I have experienced in all other teslas as well as You You's car.


You got 18s with the eco tires.
You You had 19s with somewhat sportier tires.

That might be enough to explain the difference in acceleration.


----------



## JWardell

garsh said:


> You got 18s with the eco tires.
> You You had 19s with somewhat sportier tires.
> 
> That might be enough to explain the difference in acceleration.


In 15 degree weather?
I will have stickier tires soon. We'll see. But @SoFlaModel3 agrees.


----------



## Bokonon

Finally drove one this morning (  ) , and it had 19s with the stock Contis. Thoughts on the topics above:

Acceleration from a full stop seemed strong but smooth (definitely less of a "launch" sensation than a RWD S). Acceleration from even the slightest roll seemed noticibly more "launch" like, though, to the point where the car surprised me in how quickly it jumped forward versus how it responded to the same amount of pedal displacement from a standstill. So I'd agree with the impression that the Model 3 LR takes a pretty conservative approach to the first fraction of a second from a stop, even with the 19" setup. (FWIW, I recall You You not fully stopping for his "launch" during the ride with him.) I did not try Sport Mode or enable Slip Start, for whatever that's worth.

Regen definitely had less initial bite than any other Tesla I've driven, and seemed less strong overall than the RWD S. But something about how it was calibrated (strength seemed like a function of both speed and time) made it seem much "smoother" to me than my e-Golf's B mode, my old Volt's L mode, or even the RWD S, all of which can easily make passengers queasy if you let off the Go pedal too quickly. If the AWD induction motor adds a little extra peak regen power while maintaining the same regen profile as RWD, I'll be a very happy camper.

On ride quality, right after my drive, I rode along in another, identically equipped 3, except for the fact that it was an early build with the stiffer suspension. (It actually belonged to the Now You Know guys, who BTW are super friendly!) The difference in ride quality between the two was immediately noticeable, much firmer and sportier, despite the early build having two additional adults in the back seat. But I'm glad I'll have the newer suspension, which took bumps in the road like a champ... even more so than my e-Golf with 16" rims and 55 series tires, which really surprised me.


----------



## tencate

Did anyone notice the Specs listed on the Tesla.com page for Model 3? Note the circled bit. Today I topped up, getting ready for a pretty long trip, and for fun mashed the GO pedal. Maybe I'm crazy but the car sure snapped my head back! I thought I read that someone said full power is available if your SOC is 90% or better. Judging by my seat of the pants feel just now, I'd think that was correct. Time to get out the G-Tech again! I selected the Long Range option. So, perhaps 4.5 is dual motor and 5.1s is single motor?


----------



## LUXMAN

tencate said:


> Did anyone notice the Specs listed on the Tesla.com page for Model 3? Note the circled bit. Today I topped up, getting ready for a pretty long trip, and for fun mashed the GO pedal. Maybe I'm crazy but the car sure snapped my head back! I thought I read that someone said full power is available if your SOC is 90% or better. Judging by my seat of the pants feel just now, I'd think that was correct. Time to get out the G-Tech again! I selected the Long Range option. So, perhaps 4.5 is dual motor and 5.1s is single motor?
> 
> View attachment 11995


I was told by Tesla that the state of charge would need to be high for more power. She essentially said that that SOC would give you better than advertised acceleration. So I take that to mean as the battery drops off, so will your acceleration, But I got the feeling that the min we should expect is 5.1 in our RWD LR cars. So I feel the speed is back with the software updates at the lower SOCs, but when i am charged up, she really goes. I need to do some tests if I can stop working! Seems to get in th way of fun!


----------



## SoFlaModel3

tencate said:


> Did anyone notice the Specs listed on the Tesla.com page for Model 3? Note the circled bit. Today I topped up, getting ready for a pretty long trip, and for fun mashed the GO pedal. Maybe I'm crazy but the car sure snapped my head back! I thought I read that someone said full power is available if your SOC is 90% or better. Judging by my seat of the pants feel just now, I'd think that was correct. Time to get out the G-Tech again! I selected the Long Range option. So, perhaps 4.5 is dual motor and 5.1s is single motor?
> 
> View attachment 11995


Yeah no changes there ... 5.6 standard RWD, 5.1 long range RWD, 4.5 long range dual motor, and 3.5 performance

The only change is that the long range RWD car was considerably faster and then dialed back by a software update to actually be 5.1.


----------



## LUXMAN

SoFlaModel3 said:


> Yeah no changes there ... 5.6 standard RWD, 5.1 long range RWD, 4.5 long range dual motor, and 3.5 performance
> 
> The only change is that the long range RWD car was considerably faster and then dialed back by a software update to actually be 5.1.


I wonder if they will have an UNCORKING option later for the LR RWD....


----------



## scaots

I have 18" wheels and when I floor it (not full charge, maybe 70%, and not from standstill) I can feel the tires slip ever so slightly (but very great control on the traction) so on several road surfaces I am already clearly at the limit of the stock 18" tires. Not sure that I can get any more out of it. I may try a slightly more performance oriented all season when time to replace tires, but don't want to impact the ride comfort and quiet too much.


----------



## scaots

Also, feeling super satisfied with my RWD with the current data on AWD efficiency. I want all the range I can get and RWD with all season tires will serve me just fine in 98% of my driving conditions in mid-Atlantic.


----------



## tencate

SoFlaModel3 said:


> The only change is that the long range RWD car was considerably faster and then dialed back by a software update to actually be 5.1.


I'm still not convinced of that FWIW. I let a guy with a 90's Dodge Stealth R/T something drive the car and he wanted to do a 0-60. SOC was high (long drive next day) and when he mashed the GO pedal we both were grinning like fools. But I've only had the car since January so perhaps earlier cars were indeed faster. Would really be fun to compare all our cars sometime. Musical chairs sort of but with Model 3s. Wonder just how much difference there would be? I will drive a friend's 19xxx car next Tuesday, I'll see what happens when I mash the pedal with her car (assuming she'll let me).


----------



## c2c

Through a series of unfortunate events, I have bad news for short sellers.

I took delivery of my Model 3 yesterday, VIN...499xx, with 4 problems.

1) a small scrape on the bottom corner of the front passenger door, only visible when the door is open. Tesla is on it, but the tried and true Black Electrical Tape would do just as well.

2) It is blue. I wanted red.

3) it has 19” wheels. I wanted 18” Aeros.

4) Rear Wheel Drive. I wanted All Wheel Drive.

I wanted to change my Red AWD Performance to just Red AWD. By trying to change after I got the “Your ordered 3 is coming” but before there is a delivery date, a well-meaning inside sales rep cancelled my order/reservation/destiny.’

Simultaneously, I had been helping my father towards a Model 3, but intended for a long time (months) after my car came so he could judge it. That reservation was just under a year ago and should have been arrived in Q4.

At the end of June, Elon dumped invitations out. So I ordered. The next day my Father ordered. The fat pipe of 2Q inventory moved too fast. And my Father’s came early, Delivery on July 24.

Over the weekend Father decided he wants to travel until Spring, so no Model 3 for him.

In the space of 24 hours I lost my Red AWD and gained a Blue RWD.

So I bought the wrong car.

And then I finally drove a Model 3. After I paid for it. And I paid for the Wrong Model 3.

After 2 years, 3 months, 3 weeks, 3 days, and 3 hours (pretty amazing symmetry) I was tired of waiting.

Wrong Color, Wrong Wheels, Wrong Power train.

First (and every subsequent) stomp on the accelerator: Faster Car? I don’t need no stinking faster car!

So yesterday I ordered a front Paint Protection Film, to drop off this morning. Today at the drop off, I upgraded the front Paint Protection Film to a whole body Paint Protection Film. I am keeping this car, for the rest of my life.

Short Sellers? Sorry, there are consistent panel gaps all the way around. The A Column liner is straight as an arrow. The upholstery is as uniform as my starched fatigues were in the army. No wayward moisture in the trunk nor lights. Transition to my first electric car was uneventful, except for the grins and giggles.

Worried about Enhanced Auto Pilot? Then turn it off. Although, it was pretty cute when my car drove itself, unoccupied, out of the garage in my first “Summons” experience.

Bottom line: choose any color, any wheels, or any Power train, and you will keep it.

Shorts? Get Out Now!


----------



## tencate

tencate said:


> I will drive a friend's 19xxx car next Tuesday, I'll see what happens when I mash the pedal with her car (assuming she'll let me).


She Emailed me today and informed me her VIN is later than I thought but that she _is_ willing to let me compare.  I'm also taking my car out with a G-Tech over the weekend and will try and get some hard numbers for us on 0-60 times with a "full" SOC and then something more like a 50% SOC later. We'll try and get some numbers on her car as well.


----------



## tencate

tencate said:


> I'm also taking my car out with a G-Tech over the weekend and will try and get some hard numbers for us on 0-60 times


Well, I'm impressed. I can tell changes in suspension in an instant but raw acceleration I'm clearly not so good at as the rest of you. I hereby "eat crow".

A colleague and I took out Max, a 2017 Model 3 (LR) over lunch. A nice flat stretch of road, ever so slightly uphill and then downhill so we did runs in both directions. Measurements were done with a G-Tech. I've been very impressed with this thing, it's close to matching high dollar measurement gear. A precision accelerometer and some really good programming make this lots better than any phone App I've tried. I set it up to measure 0-60 mph times. Here are the results.

Setup: 75 F outside temperature, drove the car down to the test straight (on a deserted two lane road) to warm up the tires, cold tire pressure this morning was 41 psi all around. There were two of us in the car, driver and passenger seats. I ran the G-Tech, my colleague mashed the GO pedal when instructed and kept the "pedal to the metal" until I confirmed we got a valid 0-60 time. The SOC was above 90%, 289 miles of range showing on the battery. Altitude 6700 ft above sea level, nice dry road, cleaned by some torrential rains the days before. No elk to contend with either, although there was a herd of them on the road early this morning. Stock 18 inch wheels, Aero covers on, tires have about 14k miles on them. NO tire slipping was felt or otherwise evident in these runs. We think the car stayed nicely planted for the entire test. We did runs both directions, same stretch of road and averaged. No wind to speak of. Car is running 2018.21.9.

*Average 0-60 mph time? 5.15 seconds. *Almost exactly what Tesla specs the car at. I should note that I did this measurement earlier in the year and got closer to 4.75 seconds average. I wasn't quite as careful with those measurements and there was just me in the car but it does seem like the G-Tech is telling me the car is indeed somewhat slower than it was earlier in the year.

We'll try this again on Tuesday with another 2018 Model 3 with a more recent software upgrade. I also promised to try and do this in CHILL mode to see what the numbers are.

Stay tuned.


----------



## tencate

*CHILL MODE: 0-60 mph time about 7.9 seconds* (plus or minus a few tenths of a second). Will test more again at a later date. It's a lazy Sunday afternoon, I did a few more runs with another car guy just now, he got to drive---he's got a 6.9 litre Firebird---and mash GO. *State of Charge was 60% this time. FWIW, EXACTLY the same non-Chill 0-60 mph times as reported above, 5.1 seconds*. Remarkably repeatable by the way, almost child's play. You just mash GO and keep the car straight. By the way, he was MIGHTILY impressed with Max's performance.


----------



## garsh

tencate said:


> *CHILL MODE: 0-60 mph time about 7.9 seconds*


Still quicker than my Nissan Leaf.

I guess my Leaf is.... more chill.


----------



## KarenRei

garsh said:


> Still quicker than my Nissan Leaf.
> 
> I guess my Leaf is.... more chill.


Still nearly 3 times faster than my Insight  But you know, that's pretty hilarious that "Chill Mode" is faster than most other EVs 

Would be nice if they'd add a "low gear" mode that divides pedal input by, say, 3 or 4.


----------



## Birch

We have had the long range RWD for several months and absolutely love it. Just got our performance AWD and was my wife's reaction AFTER having owned the RWD for several months. haha


----------



## viperd

Birch said:


> We have had the long range RWD for several months and absolutely love it. Just got our performance AWD and was my wife's reaction AFTER having owned the RWD for several months. haha


How does regen compare in your two models?


----------



## Rafael

99% SOC...
LR
PUP
VIN 18,955


----------



## tencate

Fun. Did you make a measurement in both directions? Even my "flat" test road has a slight change of elevation and I get a consistently faster time "downhill" than "uphill" (more than the devices specified error bars). This looks like an "uphill" run, you might even be faster on the downhill.


----------



## tipton

I was actually really surprised how much noticeably faster my P90D loaner was compared to the RWD 3. I thought the 3 was fast, but man when you floor the P90D it is like being launched at a roller coaster you are thrown back in the seat.


----------



## Rafael

As you can see in the attached picture, slope was .82 of a degree, so going uphill. I did the same stretch in the opposite direction which gave a -.23 of a degree, so going downhill, and I got the same time to a thousandth of a second.

Less than a degree seems to make little or no difference for such a short run. It takes very little distance to reach 60Mph.


----------



## tencate

Rafael said:


> same time to a thousandth of a second.


Wow. It can measure 0-60 times to that accuracy? What's it hooked up to? Even high end stuff hardly ever quotes that kind of precision. But good to know you've found "flatland". Very cool. Nice to see some good hard numbers posted here.


----------



## Rafael

My bad. I should have said hundredths of a second. Still, not bad for the purpose of pulling grassroots numbers. The device is called Dragy.


----------



## tencate

Rafael said:


> The device is called Dragy.


Neat toy. We lose GPS signals around in the mountains around here sometimes, would be interesting to try it out. Does it do braking distances too?


----------



## garsh

tencate said:


> Neat toy. We lose GPS signals around in the mountains around here sometimes


Do you mean "in the valleys between mountains"? Because otherwise, you should be getting all sorts of GPS satellite signals unless you're in a city.


----------



## tencate

garsh said:


> "in the valleys between mountains"?


Yes. We take satellite phones when we head out to do field research here and have to climb up high to get a good GPS fix for our instruments. But in general, I wouldn't take the Tesla to those places (although I have done some offroading with it). [Off topic] Speaking of offroading, anyone driven the road out to the Ancient Bristlecone Pine Forest? I'm thinking of driving Max there this fall on the way to Yosemite. Some of the videos on YouTube make it look perfectly doable. But perhaps there should be an offroading topic to discuss this. Karen posted some neat photos somewhere else on the site... I'll go seek that out and ask there.


----------



## garsh

tencate said:


> But perhaps there should be an offroading topic to discuss this.


If only there were... 

Model 3 Offroaders!


----------



## Spiffywerks

tipton said:


> I was actually really surprised how much noticeably faster my P90D loaner was compared to the RWD 3. I thought the 3 was fast, but man when you floor the P90D it is like being launched at a roller coaster you are thrown back in the seat.


When I had a 2017 S75 on loan while my Model 3 was in the shop, I noticed that the initial take-off feels much faster than the RWD 3. The 3 doesn't have as much of a jackrabbit feeling off the line an S does. No idea what a P3D is like though. I'm guessing it has the jackrabbit launch.


----------



## LoboMesa

tencate said:


> Yes. We take satellite phones when we head out to do field research here and have to climb up high to get a good GPS fix for our instruments. But in general, I wouldn't take the Tesla to those places (although I have done some offroading with it). [Off topic] Speaking of offroading, anyone driven the road out to the Ancient Bristlecone Pine Forest? I'm thinking of driving Max there this fall on the way to Yosemite. Some of the videos on YouTube make it look perfectly doable. But perhaps there should be an offroading topic to discuss this. Karen posted some neat photos somewhere else on the site... I'll go seek that out and ask there.


Field research? You're not an archaeologist, by any chance? My profile photo is out surveying lava tubes in the Malpais (my wife's a geologist). That's why we're keeping the 4Runner...


----------



## jsmay311

SoFlaModel3 said:


> On the drive unit, it looks like Alec had a drive unit failure and a replacement one week into ownership.


Anyone know anything specific about this incident?

I ask cuz my 1-day-old Model 3 just broke on me. Seriously, literally broke. It was my very first time really punching the accelerator. I was going about 20 mph when I put the pedal to the metal, and almost instantaneously a loud bang came from the rear of the car followed by a violent shuddering and loud squealing sound, speedometer going all over the place, no power going to the wheels. The noise and shudders calmed down after a few seconds, but resumed (albeit less severely) if I pressed on the accelerator, so I pulled off to the side of the road. Ended up pushing it into a parking lot.

Called roadside support... tried resets, power off/on... but it's clear something mechanical failed in spectacular fashion.

Anyway... I'm gonna be in a tow truck headed to the SC shortly, otherwise I would've taken the time to creae a new thread. I'm trying to keep a level head and not get pissed. *But if anyone has any info on a similar situation that's been reported on previously and could point me to a thread, I'd greatly appreciate it. *


----------



## JeopardE

jsmay311 said:


> Anyone know anything specific about this incident?
> 
> I ask cuz my 1-day-old Model 3 just broke on me. Seriously, literally broke. It was my very first time really punching the accelerator. I was going about 20 mph when I put the pedal to the metal, and almost instantaneously a loud bang came from the rear of the car followed by a violent shuddering and loud squealing sound, speedometer going all over the place, no power going to the wheels. The noise and shudders calmed down after a few seconds, but resumed (albeit less severely) if I pressed on the accelerator, so I pulled off to the side of the road. Ended up pushing it into a parking lot.
> 
> Called roadside support... tried resets, power off/on... but it's clear something mechanical failed in spectacular fashion.
> 
> Anyway... I'm gonna be in a tow truck headed to the SC shortly, otherwise I would've taken the time to creae a new thread. I'm trying to keep a level head and not get pissed. *But if anyone has any info on a similar situation that's been reported on previously and could point me to a thread, I'd greatly appreciate it. *


Yikes. 

Any update on what it was?


----------



## jsmay311

JOUL3S said:


> Yikes.
> 
> Any update on what it was?


No. SC on Friday said they wouldn't get to it until Monday. Hoping they can tell me tomorrow *specifically* what broke and help me understand the root cause.

I also posted about it here (M3OC) and here (TMC) in existing threads about an earlier Model 3 motor failure, so that's probably where I'll post any subsequent updates.


----------



## KarenRei

We have some data on the incidence rate of drive failures over in the Model 3 Owners Survey, linked over in this thread:

https://teslaownersonline.com/threa...g-how-common-they-are.7819/page-3#post-133689

Not common. But still more common than I expected - I'd heard of so few case reports (each, of course, played up by the shorts to high heaven) that I expected them to be almost nonexistent in the data.

Looks like half of them were able to be fixed without a replacement. From the sound of yours, though, I doubt it.


----------



## jsmay311

KarenRei said:


> We have some data on the incidence rate of drive failures over in the Model 3 Owners Survey, linked over in this thread:
> 
> https://teslaownersonline.com/threa...g-how-common-they-are.7819/page-3#post-133689
> 
> Not common. But still more common than I expected - I'd heard of so few case reports (each, of course, played up by the shorts to high heaven) that I expected them to be almost nonexistent in the data.
> 
> Looks like half of them were able to be fixed without a replacement. From the sound of yours, though, I doubt it.


Cool. Hadn't seen that thread. Thanks for putting that together and sharing the results. Lots of interesting info.

For everyone else's reference, here is the result to the drive unit question from the survey:

[EDIT: Original image deleted.]

So out of 190 responses, 6 drive unit failures (3.2%), 3 of which required drive unit replacements (1.6%). Hopefully none of those failures were as spectacular as mine. 

[Correct image:]


----------



## KarenRei

jsmay311 said:


> Cool. Hadn't seen that thread. Thanks for putting that together and sharing the results. Lots of interesting info.
> 
> For everyone else's reference, here is the result to the drive unit question from the survey:
> 
> View attachment 12733
> 
> 
> So out of 190 responses, 6 drive unit failures (3.2%), 3 of which required drive unit replacements (1.6%). Hopefully none of those failures were as spectacular as mine.


Please don't do that. Do not take raw data from the survey. There were several trolls caught in the survey's honeypots, and they were removed in the processed data. One of the "drive unit failures requiring a replacement" was from a honeypot user; there were two replacements out of 185 respondents, or 1,1%.


----------



## jsmay311

KarenRei said:


> Please don't do that. Do not take raw data from the survey. There were several trolls caught in the survey's honeypots, and they were removed in the processed data. One of the "drive unit failures requiring a replacement" was from a honeypot user; there were two replacements out of 185 respondents, or 1,1%.


Seriously? You're gonna post publicly viewable survey results that anyone can see for themselves and then scold me for citing those publicly viewable results?

And I'm not sure how a screenshot of a pie chart qualifies as "raw data".

Color me confused.


----------



## KarenRei

jsmay311 said:


> Seriously? You're gonna post publicly viewable survey results that anyone can see for themselves and then scold me for citing those publicly viewable results?
> 
> And I'm not sure how a screenshot of a pie chart qualifies as "raw data".
> 
> Color me confused.


I linked you directly to the analysis, and instead you went and posted an autogenerated image from the raw data (Google Forms). Who does that? Did you open the analysis, go to the raw data section, then decide to ignore the rest of the document and only look at the raw data? Or did you follow the link I gave, then ignore the post that was linked to and instead go to earlier pages in the thread for when the survey was opened up?

To reiterate (and as was clearly described in the analysis that was linked to): it was fully expected that some people would try to troll the survey, and hence some "honeypot" questions were added, describing fake errors. People who fell for the fake errors were removed from the dataset. One of the people with a "drive unit failure" also reported having two errors that I literally made up.


----------



## Love

I was confused too at first, but I think I understand it now and want to be sure and also help squish a disagreement/uneasiness between members if I can... the info @jsmay311 posted a pic of is raw data and @KarenRei is saying that this data is not sifted through to weed out the troll info, so there is perhaps a different area to look at that could be more accurate.

Correct?

Also, amazing work on the data KarenRei... very thorough. And keep us posted on your car Jsmay311... really hope they take care of you to your satisfaction and get you up and running ASAP.


----------



## garsh

KarenRei said:


> Please don't do that. Do not take raw data from the survey.


I don't believe he intentionally did so.

It's not obvious to those of us who didn't read carefully that those graphs didn't already weed out the trolls.


----------



## KarenRei

garsh said:


> I don't believe he intentionally did so.
> 
> It's not obvious to those of us who didn't read carefully that those graphs didn't already weed out the trolls.


Google autogenerates them; I can't make it not do so. I could hide the survey, but I of course wanted to make sure all of the data was as open and trustworthy as possible, and that includes making the raw data available. What I don't understand is how they ended up going into the raw data to begin with, when what I linked for them was the analysis.

I don't want to hide the raw data, but if people are going to be posting graphs from it rather than the troll-stripped data, without even stating what they're doing...


----------



## Dr. J

Science is hard.  The people I admire the most in the world are those who search with open minds, report with transparency and stipulate with precision. Like Karen.


----------



## M3OC Rules

jsmay311 said:


> Anyone know anything specific about this incident?
> 
> I ask cuz my 1-day-old Model 3 just broke on me. Seriously, literally broke. It was my very first time really punching the accelerator. I was going about 20 mph when I put the pedal to the metal, and almost instantaneously a loud bang came from the rear of the car followed by a violent shuddering and loud squealing sound, speedometer going all over the place, no power going to the wheels. The noise and shudders calmed down after a few seconds, but resumed (albeit less severely) if I pressed on the accelerator, so I pulled off to the side of the road. Ended up pushing it into a parking lot.
> 
> Called roadside support... tried resets, power off/on... but it's clear something mechanical failed in spectacular fashion.
> 
> Anyway... I'm gonna be in a tow truck headed to the SC shortly, otherwise I would've taken the time to creae a new thread. I'm trying to keep a level head and not get pissed. *But if anyone has any info on a similar situation that's been reported on previously and could point me to a thread, I'd greatly appreciate it. *


I don't know anything about your situation but I have a fairly close VIN 316xx of the same color and wheels. They replaced the drive unit after it got to the SC before delivery. I was told I was the third one and it was due to some sensor that they tested after it got to the SC. They were testing a certain block of VINs at the time. Knock on wood but I have had no issues. If they need to replace the drive unit it doesn't take them that long. Of course they need to be able to get the parts and they may be really busy so who knows. They assured me many times that after they do a few drive units its goes pretty quick. They do a bunch of testing on it afterwards. If they hadn't told me I certainly never would have known. Good luck.


----------



## JWardell

KarenRei said:


> Google autogenerates them; I can't make it not do so. I could hide the survey, but I of course wanted to make sure all of the data was as open and trustworthy as possible, and that includes making the raw data available. What I don't understand is how they ended up going into the raw data to begin with, when what I linked for them was the analysis.
> 
> I don't want to hide the raw data, but if people are going to be posting graphs from it rather than the troll-stripped data, without even stating what they're doing...


Remember: Humans skip words and go straight to the pictures and graphics.
I would recommend also including graphics with the offending data removed


----------



## jsmay311

KarenRei said:


> I linked you directly to the analysis, and instead you went and posted an autogenerated image from the raw data (Google Forms). Who does that? Did you open the analysis, go to the raw data section, then decide to ignore the rest of the document and only look at the raw data? Or did you follow the link I gave, then ignore the post that was linked to and instead go to earlier pages in the thread for when the survey was opened up?


With respect, (and at risk of belaboring the point), you didn't link *directly* to the analysis. You linked to another post in a different thread that itself contained a link to the analysis, but since I hadn't seen this thread before and had no context for what this survey was, I jumped to the _top_ of the thread to read it sequentially so I would understand the background. Then reading through it sequentially, the first and only link I clicked on was the one in post #31. I had no idea that this was "raw data" or in any way misleading, and there was no indication anywhere in the thread that quoting this data would be some kind of violation.

Looks like I can still edit my earlier post, so I'll update it with the correct graphic and data from the official published report. (Then I'll say 5 'Our Father's and 10 'Hail Mary's to atone for my sins. )

Anyway... thanks again for putting together the survey. It's very informative and well done.

Side note: there's still no word on when my car will be repaired. (The local SC has been very poor in its communication and not following up when they say they will.) So it'll end up being at least 10 days for me from the time of the DU failure until its repair.


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## Samsaggace

It’s strange to see that there are more AWD than RWD in the reservation backlog.
What is the purpose ! Spending more money for very little real usage, just for the fun having 4WD.


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## tencate

Samsaggace said:


> Spending more money for very little real usage, just for the fun having 4WD.


Snow. You should see how popular Subarus are in my part of the world. They're EVERYWHERE, AWD is a must in the winters around here. I would have considered it too if I wasn't so keen on getting my Model 3 as soon as possible. I'm getting a good set of snow tires and hoping they'll be sufficient.


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## KarenRei

100% agreed. $5k is a small price to pay for 1) double the traction patch area, 2) double the number of traction patches, and 3) half the traction force per patch, when you live in an area where much of the year has varying levels of ice and snow on the roads.

Cutting 13% off your 0-60 and having a "backup motor" is a nice extra  But not the main point.

I can understand how it would be difficult for a person from Paris, where the average January low is only 2,7°C, to understand the importance of good winter grip.


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## SoFlaModel3

Samsaggace said:


> It's strange to see that there are more AWD than RWD in the reservation backlog.
> What is the purpose ! Spending more money for very little real usage, just for the fun having 4WD.


White seats and faster car?


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## Samsaggace

tencate said:


> Snow. You should see how popular Subarus are in my part of the world. They're EVERYWHERE, AWD is a must in the winters around here. I would have considered it too if I wasn't so keen on getting my Model 3 as soon as possible. I'm getting a good set of snow tires and hoping they'll be sufficient.


You are right for AWD in general ! It's a must on snow. But with 14 cm clearance, M3 should not be so easy to drive on snowy roads. Model X should be more appropriate with 22 cm max clearance.


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## Upstater

SoFlaModel3 said:


> Last night driving home from dinner my wife and I needed to kill some time to ensure our kids were sleeping so we didn't have to start (the whole going to bed cycle) over upon our arrival. Well what better way to kill time than in a Model 3.
> 
> Anyway, we stumbled upon a quiet road that I've never been on before and I said to my wife this is the perfect road to test the performance of the car.
> 
> I said put your head back in the seat and she obliged, which meant it was go time!
> 
> We were going 20 MPH and I floored it. In a split second we were going 50 MPH before I slowed being unfamiliar with the road we were on.
> 
> My wife turned to me and said "I'm nauseous". She looked like she was just on a roller coaster. She asked me if I felt the same way, but of course I did not.
> 
> Anyway, I thought that was a funny/fun story to share. The moral of the story is the single motor RWD is plenty fast and tons of fun. The instant torque is simply a blast. Those waiting for dual motor AWD, unless you think you absolutely need it I would suggest not delaying the fun. Especially not with Elon's overnight Tweet that we won't see any additional complications to the configuration until they reach 5,000 units per week.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/982848849361289222


I agree that the RWD is "plenty fast"!! In fact I was in "ch


SoFlaModel3 said:


> Last night driving home from dinner my wife and I needed to kill some time to ensure our kids were sleeping so we didn't have to start (the whole going to bed cycle) over upon our arrival. Well what better way to kill time than in a Model 3.
> 
> Anyway, we stumbled upon a quiet road that I've never been on before and I said to my wife this is the perfect road to test the performance of the car.
> 
> I said put your head back in the seat and she obliged, which meant it was go time!
> 
> We were going 20 MPH and I floored it. In a split second we were going 50 MPH before I slowed being unfamiliar with the road we were on.
> 
> My wife turned to me and said "I'm nauseous". She looked like she was just on a roller coaster. She asked me if I felt the same way, but of course I did not.
> 
> Anyway, I thought that was a funny/fun story to share. The moral of the story is the single motor RWD is plenty fast and tons of fun. The instant torque is simply a blast. Those waiting for dual motor AWD, unless you think you absolutely need it I would suggest not delaying the fun. Especially not with Elon's overnight Tweet that we won't see any additional complications to the configuration until they reach 5,000 units per week.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/982848849361289222


I agree that my RWD is plenty fast enough! I had a friend that has a Corvette and he said Holy Molly and we were in Chill mode! Personally I am more than happy with my RWD, its a blast! My cost for LRBattery 310 miles is better then expected especially since my cost per KWH is $.0368 so that 310 mile charge cost is roughly is $3.30. Loving Model 3!!!


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## KarenRei

Samsaggace said:


> You are right for AWD in general ! It's a must on snow. But with 14 cm clearance, M3 should not be so easy to drive on snowy roads. Model X should be more appropriate with 22 cm max clearance.


Much more expensive, much larger, much less efficient, not the latest tech = not interested.

By the time I can order mine, air suspension should be out, and I'll be getting that. I'm also planning to try a larger-tired winter configuration. There's also a couple options to raise the suspension beyond air suspension.


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## BostonPilot

Just to follow up on needing AWD for snow... This is "hop in and go" in the STi ;-)

Not sure I'm expecting quite the same performance from the Tesla, but I'll be putting dedicated snows on it... (M3P+)


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## Samsaggace

From French or European perspective, we should also take into account rough weather conditions, especially for a long range sedan. But it seems that AWD is more for SUVs with higher clearance. In the alps, there are mainly SUVs during winter. You will go nowhere with low clearance.
Without regarding weather conditions, I had some trouble to select M3 as my main car due to its low clearance.
My current car (Toyota Auris Hybrid) has 17 cm clearance.
There are many good videos on that specific clearance issues for M3.


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## KarenRei

Samsaggace said:


> From French or European perspective, we should also take into account rough weather conditions, especially for a long range sedan. But it seems that AWD is more for SUVs with higher clearance. In the alps, there are mainly SUVs during winter


Good thing most of us don't live in the alps?

Look, the last thing we need is someone whose average January low temperature is several degrees above freezing tell us who live near the arctic what we do and don't need. Would you want a lecture on how air conditioning is pointless in a car and how I've gone without air conditioning for years, from someone who lives in Iceland?


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## Michael Russo

@KarenRei no doubt your experience in dealing with challenging weather conditions is unbeatable! 

In the end. anyone will make the ultimate choice on this endless AWD vs. RWD dilemma based on her/his perception of what is truly needed in her/his area, together with additional 'wants' on the incremental benefits of two driving axles vs. one... and budget considerations.

It's cool. No pun intended!


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## M3OC Rules

Michael Russo said:


> In the end. anyone will make the ultimate choice on this endless AWD vs. RWD dilemma based on her/his perception of what is truly needed in her/his area, together with additional 'wants' on the incremental benefits of two driving axles vs. one... and budget considerations.


Very well said. I was just talking to a neighbor and they suggested I could use our AWD ICE in the winter time if snow tires + RWD on the Model 3 wasn't good enough. I said "No way, if that's the case I'm getting an AWD Tesla" but deep down I know it will be fine and I still won't be able to justify upgrading to a Performance Model 3 no matter how much I want to.


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