# Tesla Solar journey



## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Took the plunge and signed up for Tesla Solar. Was quoted 11-12weeks install time. Hoping it gets completed before end of year so I can capitalize on tax savings for 2021.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

Good luck, I sincerely hope all works out well for you. I've heard way too many negatives about Tesla Solar(And I believe a good bit of it) to trust or do business with them. If a friend or family member asked my advice, I'd steer them to some other installer.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

@shareef777, I think you had been interested in solar several years ago, then decided not to. What changed you back to a yes?


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Bigriver said:


> @shareef777, I think you had been interested in solar several years ago, then decided not to. What changed you back to a yes?


Honestly, it's because of my first electric bill over $300. Though I just received the system design and I'm second guessing my decision. For a 16,624 kWh/yr system, it wouldn't offset all of my usage, and at a cost over $52k. So far this year I've used 16,013 at a cost of $1841. Even with the federal credit knocking it down to $38.7k, that's still an almost 20 year ROI.


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

I haver a recent (not Tesla) solar installation rated at 11.6KW (DC) and it produces about 22Mwh a year. ~30% more than your estimate Total installed cost was under $30K. Ground mounted.

So, IMHO, your pricing is very high.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> For a 16,624 kWh/yr system, it wouldn't offset all of my usage, and at a cost over $52k. So far this year I've used 16,013 at a cost of $1841. Even with the federal credit knocking it down to $38.7k, that's still an almost 20 year ROI.


That probably also includes 3 Powerwalls, right? I did not include the cost of the Powerwalls in my estimating years for ROI. For me Powerwalls are a game changer, ensuring I am extremely unlikely to ever deal with a power outage again. For me it was like buying a hot tub or deciding to spend money on a vacation… not something that I expect to pay back in any way.

Also, I think there are SREC's in Illinois? Our SREC's in PA are not as great as New Jersey or Massachusetts, but they are paying me more than I expected… about $40 for every 1 MW.

Edit: one more item, it might not be a game you want to play, but one of the benefits we have found with solar is that we are so much more aware of what energy we are using. Part of the savings is that we use less energy.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Bigriver said:


> That probably also includes 3 Powerwalls, right? I did not include the cost of the Powerwalls in my estimating years for ROI. For me Powerwalls are a game changer, ensuring I am extremely unlikely to ever deal with a power outage again. For me it was like buying a hot tub or deciding to spend money on a vacation… not something that I expect to pay back in any way.
> 
> Also, I think there are SREC's in Illinois? Our SREC's in PA are not as great as New Jersey or Massachusetts, but they are paying me more than I expected… about $40 for every 1 MW.
> 
> Edit: one more item, it might not be a game you want to play, but one of the benefits we have found with solar is that we are so much more aware of what energy we are using. Part of the savings is that we use less energy.


Only two power walls, and honestly they're not needed (but mandatory). Power in my area is very reliable. Maybe one outage a year and doesn't last more than a few hours.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Klaus-rf said:


> I haver a recent (not Tesla) solar installation rated at 11.6KW (DC) and it produces about 22Mwh a year. ~30% more than your estimate Total installed cost was under $30K. Ground mounted.
> 
> So, IMHO, your pricing is very high.


It's the power walls that kill the pricing. Nice feature but makes up almost half the cost.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

Klaus-rf said:


> I haver a recent (not Tesla) solar installation rated at 11.6KW (DC) and it produces about 22Mwh a year. ~30% more than your estimate Total installed cost was under $30K. Ground mounted.


My understanding is that a typical installation will produce about 1.3 to 1.6 MWh per year per kW of the system. Yours is at 1.9. Ground mounted should have allowed you to optimize the tilt angle and azimuth. Are there any other factors giving you that high of production? (I dream of being able to have mine follow the sun, daily and seasonally.) Also, you said it is a recent installation. Have you been through a whole year cycle?


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## Pearl1 (Sep 23, 2021)

shareef777 said:


> Took the plunge and signed up for Tesla Solar. Was quoted 11-12weeks install time. Hoping it gets completed before end of year so I can capitalize on tax savings for 2021.


My inspection was last week. Now waiting for PTO.

Lesson learned - make sure you know the specifics of what they are going to install. Seems like a "duh" comment, but solar is technically complicated, and the devil is in the details. They can and will cut corners. Like not using enough strings or not enough inverter capacity; Both will greatly impact your performance. Once its installed, you've got an uphill battle to make it right.

The tesla purchase contract is vague. You buy the 12.5 kWh system, that VDC. VAC is what matters. VAC is the product of the solar panels production in VDC, the transmission of the VDC to the inverter (the strings), and in the inverters capabilities, which a limited by it's overall capacity and the string configuration, to convert the VDC to VAC. In the Tesla purchase contract, these critical details are all lumped together in a line item called "Inverter(s) and balance of system. The wiring from the panels (strings) or total inverter capacity is not spelled out. You can, should, get a copy of the plan set used to get the building permit, but these plan set are not fixed and will change right up to inspection day.

If you have multiple arrays, they may run just one string back to your inverter using only one inverter MPPT. MPPT's, like lanes on a highway, have bandwidth limits, that's why they have more than one. They may only install one PW+ or one standalone inverter, 7.6 kWh capacity. This gives you DC/AC ration > 1.6; 1.2 is consider standard. Production is now limited by the inverter. You actually bought a 7.6 kWh system, not a 12.5!

Assuming you're in North America, with your system commissioning in the winter, with the low sun angle, an array won't produce as much. Tesla says 50% of rated capacity in winter. In the case of the 12.5kWh system, the panels might never produce in excess of the inverter's capacity (7.6 kWh), so you would never really know that the inverter was limiting. Come summer you'll be inverter limited, clipped. Per Tesla, the system in summer should produce 80% of VDC rating. For the 12.5 VDC that 10 VAC. With limited strings or just one inverter, the best you'll see is 7.6 kWh, 60%.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

@Pearl1 are you describing what happened to you? I'll agree that Tesla's contract is vague, and that if something is wrong, they are not exactly responsive in a timely manner. But I'm a little concerned with your implication that you have to be an electrical expert to get solar. Your example of a 12.5 kW system getting limited to 7.6 kW would be noticeable to a layman when it consistently underproduces relative to the monthly production estimates that Tesla provides, which is tuned to the specifics of your panel installation, angle and azimuth. I don't think individuals at Tesla are immune to mistakes, but I also don't think they're systematically trying to limit customer's production with poor designs.


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## Pearl1 (Sep 23, 2021)

Bigriver said:


> @Pearl1 are you describing what happened to you? I'll agree that Tesla's contract is vague, and that if something is wrong, they are not exactly responsive in a timely manner. But I'm a little concerned with your implication that you have to be an electrical expert to get solar. Your example of a 12.5 kW system getting limited to 7.6 kW would be noticeable to a layman when it consistently underproduces relative to the monthly production estimates that Tesla provides, which is tuned to the specifics of your panel installation, angle and azimuth. I don't think individuals at Tesla are immune to mistakes, but I also don't think they're systematically trying to limit customer's production with poor designs.


This is the situation I am in right now. Inspection day, I brought this to the attention of both Tesla customer service rep and the Tesla inspector, with both saying they would elevate the issue. They said give it week. Today is a week. I am not holding my breath.

How would this situation may noticeable to the layman? I only received an annual estimate, not monthly.

The Tesla estimate is the limit of liability for Tesla; it's what they guarantee. Tesla has multiple motives to underestimate production. 1. No claims for low production, 2. Can short change the build, use less equipment less labor, to save money, 3. Lower production estimates, people buy bigger systems.

In my case, Tesla numbers are not in agreement with PVwatts. My system, modeled in PVwatts, should produce over 20 mWh per year; Tesla estimate less than 17 mWh. I bought a PV system with storage, built in accordance with industry norms -- not a Power Purchase Agreement.

You can count the panels. If they under build your system, it will be with inverter capacity or strings. These are details most consumers don't really understand or care about, but they should. It takes labor, wire, and conduit to run the appropriate number of strings. Big/additoinal inverters cost money and labor.

I bet I am not the only one in this situation. I would bet it under-building systems is quite common. Pulling wire is no fun. Pull just enough to make the systems work. Inverters, the consumer will never know.

When they under-build, its like you bought a car expecting a V8 but get get 4 cylinder that's at max RPM maintaining highway speed.

You don't need to be an expert. It's your choice to be an informed consumer. It's not that complicated. You can do that you want.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

FWIW, my experience with Tesla solar was pretty good, although I have a friend who had a more frustrating time with getting the system properly installed and energized. For me, Tesla was the only solar company I could find who would install at all. Everyone else told me our rafters were spaced too far apart. Tesla told me that too--and then agreed to provide additional reinforcement at no charge! It is true that installation took a few months longer than originally planned, but that's because we were supposed to go live around the start of April of 2020, and the pandemic ended up pushing us back to July.

Production? To tell you the truth, I hadn't looked at it that way, so I just checked. It's a 7.56 kW system with no Powerwalls. My average production is between 550 - 600 kWh per month (that's average: of course summer is higher and winter lower). That's slightly less than 1 MWh per year per kW of rating, but I'm not a bit surprised we're below the typical range. I'm in NY state, so we're a bit further north than a lot of systems, we get snow covering the panels for significant periods in the winter. In addition, and this is a big effect, we've got two big trees that shade the system quite a bit during the summer. So I'm quite satisfied with that amount. And Tesla's estimate at purchase was 0.97 MWh, which is pretty much spot on.

ROI? I didn't compute that either, but let me think it through. The nominal purchase price was $18k. We got $1.2k of rebates off the bat. We got a $4.4k tax credit from the feds, and _another_ $4.2k tax credit from NYS. Our electricity from the grid costs about $0.20 per kWh, so about $1400 per year. Interest on the loan will be $10.1k. So that means roughly 13 years to break even, which is pretty good. But it's actually far better than that, because we own the panels, and I didn't include residual value in that calculation. (For example, it increases the value of the home if we sell it with the panels.)

Rather than compute it that way, though, it's easy to tell it was a good decision financially. Our net use of electricity from the grid for things other than charging the car is pretty much zero, and we have a special super-low rate for charging the car from our utility (because they pay us "bounties" for things like avoiding summer afternoon charging, I think we may even end up making money off of our car-charging!). So we're pretty much paying $114 per month for the loan plus $16 of fees to the utility, for a total of $130 per month. Looking back to the year before we got the system, our electricity bill averaged $159 per month. So right off the bat we're saving about $30 per month. *And* we got more than $8k in tax credits. *And *we own the panels. And all that with no money down. So getting this done was pretty much like having money falling from the sky.

I understand, of course that YMMV, and that in particular the tax credits made a big difference. Without the tax credits, the monthly payment would have been higher than our old electric bill, which means it really would have to be seen as an investment with the residual value of the solar panels being crucial. I'm pretty sure it would still have come out ahead, and with the intangible benefit of knowing it was better for the environment. But it wouldn't have been a no-brainer the way it was with the tax credits.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

DocScott said:


> FWIW, my experience with Tesla solar was pretty good, although I have a friend who had a more frustrating time with getting the system properly installed and energized. For me, Tesla was the only solar company I could find who would install at all. Everyone else told me our rafters were spaced too far apart. Tesla told me that too--and then agreed to provide additional reinforcement at no charge! It is true that installation took a few months longer than originally planned, but that's because we were supposed to go live around the start of April of 2020, and the pandemic ended up pushing us back to July.
> 
> Production? To tell you the truth, I hadn't looked at it that way, so I just checked. It's a 7.56 kW system with no Powerwalls. My average production is between 550 - 600 kWh per month (that's average: of course summer is higher and winter lower). That's slightly less than 1 MWh per year per kW of rating, but I'm not a bit surprised we're below the typical range. I'm in NY state, so we're a bit further north than a lot of systems, we get snow covering the panels for significant periods in the winter. In addition, and this is a big effect, we've got two big trees that shade the system quite a bit during the summer. So I'm quite satisfied with that amount. And Tesla's estimate at purchase was 0.97 MWh, which is pretty much spot on.
> 
> ...


You're lucky that you got yours before Tesla forced power walls as part of the purchase. My loan payments for 10 years would be almost double my electric bill. In addition to the loan I'd STILL have to pay my utility for a meter and the remaining 10% power the Tesla system couldn't provide. ROI on my purchase was looking like it'd be almost 20 years AFTER incentives!


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

Pearl1 said:


> This is the situation I am in right now. Inspection day, I brought this to the attention of both Tesla customer service rep and the Tesla inspector, with both saying they would elevate the issue. They said give it week. Today is a week. I am not holding my breath.


Sorry to hear what you are going through. I hope that it gets resolved quickly, but the longer your expectation, the less likely that Tesla will disappoint. 🤨 in my experience Tesla Solar has not been particularly responsive to issues.

I guess Tesla may have changed what they provide, but in 2018 they gave me monthly breakdown of expected production. It was part of their proposal, not a part of the contract. The contract only has their financial guarantee which is in 2 year increments and is 85% of the base estimate.

I'm all for informed consumers, but I guess my point is that you shouldn't have to be a subject matter expert to get solar. I'm a retired engineer but electrical design isn't my thing, and I'm sure a majority of people out there are even less knowledgeable than I am. Most of us are not in any position to be able to do an independent technical review of the design, and I wouldn't want someone to dismiss getting solar because of that.


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## gvanwesep (Dec 29, 2021)

shareef777 said:


> Took the plunge and signed up for Tesla Solar. Was quoted 11-12weeks install time. Hoping it gets completed before end of year so I can capitalize on tax savings for 2021.


I took the plunge with Tesla solar because the price was low and I loved my car. My experience (over three years) was very bad. Customer service was beyond awful. I ended up paying $3,000 to have it removed and then twice the amount Tesla had charged to replace it (albeit with more panels). All the people I've met who are in the solar panel industry and have worked with or for Tesla uniformly have only bad things to say. Do not, do not deal with Tesla Solar.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Well, I jumped back in because I'm now able to get full SREC credits applied against the purchase. With federal incentives this pushes my ROI down to just under 7 years (probably even faster considering the huge spike in my utility provider costs).

Stuck with Tesla because they're still the best value. The next biggest provider in the area (SunRun) wanted to charge me $30k for a 20year lease and I'd only get 50% of my power requirements. Tesla's system was similar in price, provides ~90% of my power needs AND includes two power walls. It's a no brainer. Submitted my request 1/2/22 and within a week had everything lined up (design, permits, credits, etc). Now I'm pending an install date (which I understand can take months due to supply chain issues).


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Pearl1 said:


> My inspection was last week. Now waiting for PTO.
> 
> Lesson learned - make sure you know the specifics of what they are going to install. Seems like a "duh" comment, but solar is technically complicated, and the devil is in the details. They can and will cut corners. Like not using enough strings or not enough inverter capacity; Both will greatly impact your performance. Once its installed, you've got an uphill battle to make it right.
> 
> ...


So I've been looking at the design doc and from what I gather there'll be two PW+ installed. The layout consists of 48 T400H panels split into the following 6 strings:

6 panels going to PW+1
20 panels going to PW+1 (split into two 10 panel strings)
8 panels going to PW+2
7 panels going to PW+2
7 panels going to PW+2









I plead ignorance here and will admit this is all beyond me. If the inverters are limited to 7.6kWh and Tesla is selling me an advertised 19.2kW system, wouldn't that mean I should have 3 inverters at a minimum?


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## Pearl1 (Sep 23, 2021)

shareef777 said:


> So I've been looking at the design doc and from what I gather there'll be two PW+ installed. The layout consists of 48 T400H panels split into the following 6 strings:
> 
> 6 panels going to PW+1
> 20 panels going to PW+1 (split into two 10 panel strings)
> ...


Industry standard is DC/AC ratio of 1.2:1. The PW+ able to support up to 1.6:1. 2x7.6kWh inverters = 15.2. 19.2/15.2=1.26:1. if I did the math correctly. 
I have 1x7.6 with 12.24 DC = 1.6:1. Tesla is telling me that the documentation is not keeping up with technology and that they can overclock the inverter so to speak to over 150%. We'll see come summer time.


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

Most inverters can be "overloaded", but they won't make any more power than the rated amount.

For example: Feeding 12KW DC to a 10KW inverter will not damage the inverter, but it will sharply clip the output at 10KW because that is what the inverter is made to produce.

So you lose that extra 2KW (DC) of solar generation during peak production periods. 

Larger inverters (higher power rating) cost more so many solar companies use smaller inverters with large power panel arrays to save money. IMHO, they don't seem, to care about actually using all the solar power that is generated.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Pearl1 said:


> Industry standard is DC/AC ratio of 1.2:1. The PW+ able to support up to 1.6:1. 2x7.6kWh inverters = 15.2. 19.2/15.2=1.26:1. if I did the math correctly.
> I have 1x7.6 with 12.24 DC = 1.6:1. Tesla is telling me that the documentation is not keeping up with technology and that they can overclock the inverter so to speak to over 150%. We'll see come summer time.


Just received the utility provider interconnection form filled out by Tesla. Sure enough they noted Powerwall+ 7.6 with a 15.2kW rating. The waiting game continues.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Still "in-line" to schedule an install date, but received another offer from Sunrun. They were adamant about offering a proposal even though they were aware I signed up with Tesla already. Above specs are from the largest system they could offer. My cost: $42k 😮


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

First issue with Tesla. Just received additional documents to sign (addendum to the interconnection document being sent to my utility provider). Lists a Powerwall+ and Powerwall 2.0 which seems to indicate that I’d only receive one inverter (included with the plus). Odd to have a 19.2kW system with only a single 7.6kW inverter. Reached out to Tesla for further clarification.


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## Pearl1 (Sep 23, 2021)

shareef777 said:


> First issue with Tesla. Just received additional documents to sign (addendum to the interconnection document being sent to my utility provider). Lists a Powerwall+ and Powerwall 2.0 which seems to indicate that I'd only receive one inverter (included with the plus). Odd to have a 19.2kW system with only a single 7.6kW inverter. Reached out to Tesla for further clarification.


Doesn't sound right to me.

My install completed last week of Sept, so I haven't seen a max solar day yet. During Sept and Oct here in Florida is was clipping at 7.6 kW on most days. I've had multiple conversations with my Tesla advisor concerning a similar undersizing of my system. He insist there be very little clipping because the engineers tell him the system can produce in excess of 150% of the rated output once all the net metering BS is complete. We'll see.

Looking at the latest Powerwall+ spec sheet, they've up'd the "Allowable DC/AC Ratio" to 1.7. *19.2/7.6 = 2.5*

Get a copy of the plans they submit to the building department. How many strings are there going to be? PW+ only has 4 MPPT, so can accept 4 strings.

Max input voltage 600 VDC, 480 VDC per string at 13 amps (26 amps for combined strings, whatever that means). 600 x 13 = 7.8 kW.

https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/...filename="powerwall-plus-datasheet-na-en.pdf"


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## Joesmoe3 (12 mo ago)

Found y'all. We decided to go with the Solar Roof and two Powerwalls (like you - Powerwall + and Powerwall 2.0). We ordered end of April, installation was completed over 6 days (uncomplicated roof) end of July - utility permission to connect was received early September, and as of this writing, have yet to receive a bill from Dominion Energy. We have net metering, and their Time-of-Use/Demand rate "1S". The Powerwalls have no trouble, even in the dead of winter, of keeping charged and keeping us free of electricity demand during peaks.

I'm still frustrated with the app, which will not work (yet) as set it and forget it.

Would be interested in hearing from anyone who has experience in NoVA with this.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Pearl1 said:


> Doesn't sound right to me.
> 
> My install completed last week of Sept, so I haven't seen a max solar day yet. During Sept and Oct here in Florida is was clipping at 7.6 kW on most days. I've had multiple conversations with my Tesla advisor concerning a similar undersizing of my system. He insist there be very little clipping because the engineers tell him the system can produce in excess of 150% of the rated output once all the net metering BS is complete. We'll see.
> 
> ...


Per the account rep:

Hi Shareef, this is Michael. I just reviewed your design and it is 2 Powerwall+. We ask customers to sign documentation and review and correct if needed before sending them out. It is more efficient that way. Again, your design has 2 Powerwall+ because your system will need 2 inverters to convert the energy for your system. The document I sent to you for HOA approval has spec sheets for the products in the back of the packet. Thank you for your time and have a good weekend.

That was quick and easy. Back to the waiting game 😀


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Pearl1 said:


> Doesn't sound right to me.
> 
> My install completed last week of Sept, so I haven't seen a max solar day yet. During Sept and Oct here in Florida is was clipping at 7.6 kW on most days. I've had multiple conversations with my Tesla advisor concerning a similar undersizing of my system. He insist there be very little clipping because the engineers tell him the system can produce in excess of 150% of the rated output once all the net metering BS is complete. We'll see.
> 
> ...


BTW, that link is invalid, getting an access denied message.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

shareef777 said:


> BTW, that link is invalid, getting an access denied message.


That link works for me.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

garsh said:


> That link works for me.


Now I'm intrigued. Tested from my home wifi as well as cellular. Also tested from multiple browsers.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

shareef777 said:


> Now I'm intrigued. Tested from my home wifi as well as cellular. Also tested from multiple browsers.


Now I'm getting accessed denied. Strange.


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## cabbie (Feb 17, 2019)

Just got our solar installed last week and am loving it. I am in the midwest were it is a bit harder to get Tesla solar. The company I went with is a certified Tesla installer (Straightup Solar) but did not have the equipment so I opted for REM Alpha panels with Enphase inverters and am very happy. No backup batteries because we rarely lose power but I might get one for power at night and on cloudy days. I'm just happy to be able to power the car (I charge at home during daytime).
People seem to be obsessed with cost effectiveness which I don't understand. I always ask what is the cost effectiveness your furniture? a swimming pool? I wanted solar for environmental reasons, also why I bought my M3, more than savings on my energy costs.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

cabbie said:


> Just got our solar installed last week and am loving it. I am in the midwest were it is a bit harder to get Tesla solar. The company I went with is a certified Tesla installer (Straightup Solar) but did not have the equipment so I opted for REM Alpha panels with Enphase inverters and am very happy. No backup batteries because we rarely lose power but I might get one for power at night and on cloudy days. I'm just happy to be able to power the car (I charge at home during daytime).
> People seem to be obsessed with cost effectiveness which I don't understand. I always ask what is the cost effectiveness your furniture? a swimming pool? I wanted solar for environmental reasons, also why I bought my M3, more than savings on my energy costs.


Solar systems sole purpose is for electricity. Which, I'd imagine, everyone already has access to. You don't buy furniture or a pool if you already have those. Some want to spend more money on electricity so that it's clean, some don't. Very easy to understand.


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## cabbie (Feb 17, 2019)

shareef777 said:


> Solar systems sole purpose is for electricity. Which, I'd imagine, everyone already has access to. You don't buy furniture or a pool if you already have those. Some want to spend more money on electricity so that it's clean, some don't. Very easy to understand.


What I don't understand is why they feel they can question my financial decision to purchase solar panels. Of course they are for generating electricity and of course I have access to electricity. If someone has a perfectly good car yet buys another do you ask about the cost effectiveness of that? If you have a couch but buy another are you questioned about the cost effectiveness of that?


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

cabbie said:


> What I don't understand is why they feel they can question my financial decision to purchase solar panels. Of course they are for generating electricity and of course I have access to electricity. If someone has a perfectly good car yet buys another do you ask about the cost effectiveness of that? If you have a couch but buy another are you questioned about the cost effectiveness of that?


Well there's two sides to cost consideration for solar systems. There's the cost of electricity aspect, where without credits/subsidies, it doesn't make sense. Seems that for you, there's the environmental aspect, and solar is an absolute steal. There's really not much else we can do in our homes to have a larger environmental aspect (regardless of cost).


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## Pearl1 (Sep 23, 2021)

Just smile and wave. 

It’s hard for mortals to wrap their head around. Near everyone is going to have solar. They just don’t know it yet.

A few reasons I like it.
-Solar is the only home improvement that pays you. 
-Making a tangible improvement to the environment
-Independence
-Sticking it to man - the monopoly utility


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

cabbie said:


> What I don't understand is why they feel they can question my financial decision to purchase solar panels.


I think it's just people trying to understand your motivation for buying solar panels. Don't worry too much if they don't share your motivations.


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

Pearl1 said:


> Just smile and wave.
> 
> It's hard for mortals to wrap their head around. Near everyone is going to have solar. They just don't know it yet.
> 
> ...


Solar is only one component in making ones home (house) more efficient:

- LED lighting (replacing all incandescent, halogen and florescent lights) SIGNUIFICANTLY reduces power usage. 
- Better wall and roof / ceiling insulation. Makes a YUUUGE difference in heating/cooling costs (energy consumption) 
- Higher efficiency appliances including heating/cooling, water heater, frig/freezer, dish washer, etc. (higher SEER ratings). 
- Higher thermal efficiency doors and windows, including UV / IR tinting

The list is longer but that's all I can think of just now.

Then we can get into water consumption /preservation / filtering but that's a topic for another time.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Got a text and an email containing the following:


Your Solar Panels and Powerwall Project Requires Your Attention​We have not been able to successfully reach you regarding the items pending action in your Tesla Account. If you are still interested in moving your project forward, complete the items in your Tesla Account.Complete the items and check your project status in your Tesla Account.

Logged in and it says "No items outstanding". There's a disconnect somewhere on Tesla's side. Sent a text to an account rep, but no clue if they got it or not.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Tried to call in, but hours are from 6a-12pm (such odd hours). Wound up using the chat feature and was told that it's a false alert. I'm all caught up and the status on their end is that my project is pending material.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Lost power to my house 15min ago and still hasn't come back. Sure woulda been nice if I had a battery backup 🤣

Outage lasted about 45min. Various battery backups I have for network/computer devices didn't last 15min


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## Solarguy (11 mo ago)

Pearl1 said:


> This is the situation I am in right now. Inspection day, I brought this to the attention of both Tesla customer service rep and the Tesla inspector, with both saying they would elevate the issue. They said give it week. Today is a week. I am not holding my breath.
> 
> How would this situation may noticeable to the layman? I only received an annual estimate, not monthly.
> 
> ...


Did you found any resolution? I just installed the system but am having similar concerns. 11.6kw panels with 7.6kw powerwall + inverter.

Appreciate you response.


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## Pearl1 (Sep 23, 2021)

Solarguy said:


> Did you found any resolution? I just installed the system but am having similar concerns. 11.6kw panels with 7.6kw powerwall + inverter.
> 
> Appreciate you response.


Not really. What the "tesla advisor" has told me, as well as the techs at my house, is that the spec sheets is not up to date and that they can essentially run the inverter at 150% of rated power, overclock it so to speak. So, I'll have to wait and see as the calendar moves towards more productive months.

I should have pushed back in the beginning. The large system, what we have, really needs to have an two inverters, the 7.6 and the 3.8.

The supply chain issues are impacting everything. It seems Tesla is choosing to underbuild the system in order to keep the process moving.


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## Pearl1 (Sep 23, 2021)

For FPL customers.

The good news. Tesla came yesterday and installed the work around for the back up switch issue and same day FPL installed my net meter.

The work around is tesla install an additional meter can box near my meter to go in between the "FPL" meter can and my electric panel. In this new tesla meter can, Tesla installed the back up switch and put a cover over it where the meter is designed to go. To get the power from the tesla meter can to my panel, they drilled a 2 inch hole in my block wall and ran conduit into my garage to get the power to my panel. It looks ugly and stupid, but it works.

The FPL net meter rep, who I've gone round and round with, came to my house. Good to meet him. We politely argues a bit about how stupid this whole FPL process has been and how unnecessary this work around is. The FPL people kind of looked at as, I do what I'm told.

FPL rep said FPL is working to get the backup switch approved. A process that will take 2 years! How absurd.


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## Solarguy (11 mo ago)

Pearl1 said:


> Not really. What the "tesla advisor" has told me, as well as the techs at my house, is that the spec sheets is not up to date and that they can essentially run the inverter at 150% of rated power, overclock it so to speak. So, I'll have to wait and see as the calendar moves towards more productive months.
> 
> I should have pushed back in the beginning. The large system, what we have, really needs to have an two inverters, the 7.6 and the 3.8.
> 
> The supply chain issues are impacting everything. It seems Tesla is choosing to underbuild the system in order to keep the process moving.


So practically very unlikely to happen. I was getting clipping in winter itself. 3 days after install and inverter clips between 11 to 2 mainly. I asked to enable my inverter at 150% capacity so my sa told he will escalate. 🤣🤣. I have not paid down payment yet so lets see what they comeup with.


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

Solarguy said:


> So practically very unlikely to happen. I was getting clipping in winter itself. 3 days after install and inverter clips between 11 to 2 mainly. I asked to enable my inverter at 150% capacity so my sa told he will escalate. 🤣🤣. I have not paid down payment yet so lets see what they comeup with.


That's not how modern inverters works. If you have an inverter rated for 5KW, that's ALL the AC power it will output. You can "overload" the DC input, say input 7.5KW DC, but it will only output up to 5KW AC. To get that other DC-AC power, you need a larger inverter(s).

I have (2) 5KW inverters with 11.68KW (DC) in panels. It SHARPLY clips at 10KW AC and no more even though the panels produce more. All they're saying with the "overload" is that the inverters will not be *damaged*, NOT that the inverters will actually make more power. The "overload" is lost forever.

Previous generations of inverters could be damaged by inputting beyond the max rated power level. Current ones just clip so there is no damage.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Curious how Tesla is able to advertise the X-Large system as 19.2kW when the inverters limit the total to 15.2kW.


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## Solarguy (11 mo ago)

Klaus-rf said:


> That's not how modern inverters works. If you have an inverter rated for 5KW, that's ALL the AC power it will output. You can "overload" the DC input, say input 7.5KW DC, but it will only output up to 5KW AC. To get that other DC-AC power, you need a larger inverter(s).
> 
> I have (2) 5KW inverters with 11.68KW (DC) in panels. It SHARPLY clips at 10KW AC and no more even though the panels produce more. All they're saying with the "overload" is that the inverters will not be *damaged*, NOT that the inverters will actually make more power. The "overload" is lost forever.
> 
> ...


I totally agree, the first line of defense is tesla inverter is capable to "overdrive" mode. Which does not makes sense i said the wiring itself wont be able to support the overdrive even if that was a feature. So they just use overdrive word to push back customers. As i went a bit technical sa said he will escalate to design team. Lets see how it goes.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> Curious how Tesla is able to advertise the X-Large system as 19.2kW when the inverters limit the total to 15.2kW.


Maybe because of panel placement they can determine that all panels will never peak at the same time. My 12 kW system peaks at 10 kW for a few seconds a few times a year. I am thrilled when it is over 9.5 kW. 15.2 kW to 19.2 kW is a particularly large difference, but that large of a system might have had to place a lot of panels in non-ideal locations, or at least in diverse orientations that don't peak their production at the same time.

Edit: I just used the handy calculator on my phone. So my peak rate to system size is 83%. The 15.2 to 19.2 kW situation is 79%. In the same ballpark.

Edit #2: I still have access to the Old Solar City presentation of my solar production, which I like better in some ways than the Tesla app. One thing it shows me is the production per inverter. In the bar chart below, the dark blue is my inverter for the panels that face Southeast, and the lighter blue is the inverter for the panels that face Southwest. Kind of interesting to see the shift during the day. The southeast ones are pointless at the end of the day while
the southwest ones are doing little at the beginning of the day.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Bigriver said:


> Maybe because of panel placement they can determine that all panels will never peak at the same time. My 12 kW system peaks at 10 kW for a few seconds a few times a year. I am thrilled when it is over 9.5 kW. 15.2 kW to 19.2 kW is a particularly large difference, but that large of a system might have had to place a lot of panels in non-ideal locations, or at least in diverse orientations that don't peak their production at the same time.
> 
> Edit: I just used the handy calculator on my phone. So my peak rate to system size is 83%. The 15.2 to 19.2 kW situation is 79%. In the same ballpark.
> 
> ...


How much does your 12kW system produce in a year? I'm still learning on how these numbers correlate to actual kWh I'd be getting throughout the year. It's advertised as a 19.2kW system and they estimate it'll produce 20,102kWh per year (55kWh per day). Are they estimating based off my specific roof or in general?


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

One other issue I just found. They have the Inverter/Battery showing in the diagram on the interior by the main panel (which is in the basement in the family room). That is NOT acceptable. Don't like the idea of two huge ass batteries and other solar items sitting in the corner of my finished/carpeted basement.

Think the issue is that their diagram shows a small shed as if it was part of the house. It's not and can easily be moved/removed to feed conduit directly from the meter straight to the garage.

Anyone with experience in having the initial design changed? Would they have really just came onsite and put that equipment into a finished basement?


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> How much does your 12kW system produce in a year? I'm still learning on how these numbers correlate to actual kWh I'd be getting throughout the year. It's advertised as a 19.2kW system and they estimate it'll produce 20,102kWh per year (55kWh per day). Are they estimating based off my specific roof or in general?


Tesla does the calcs specifically for your location, your design. We went through several permutations of panel design, and the estimate changed each time. Even in the installation, 2 panels had to be moved from the plan and the estimated annual production changed slightly.

My final 11.97 kW system had estimated first year production of 13,603 kW. This is in the contract, but is provided only as an estimate and for the first year. Also in my contract is the guaranteed production for 20 years, and it is 85% of this estimate and my recollection is that it has 2% degradation/year assumed. In 2018, they also provided me with the monthly production estimate, but this is not in the contract. I believe it was in "proposals." It is seeming they are not providing this any more?

We have completed 3 full calendar years of solar production, but I really only have 1 year of full data because we had 2 different inverter outages. In 2020 the smaller inverter was out for 3 weeks in October, then in 2021 the larger inverter was out for over 10 weeks during the summer. AARGH. So going back to 2019, we produced exactly 14,000 kWh, exceeding the 13,603 kWh estimate.

My monthly breakdown might be of help/interest to you. Here is a table showing Tesla's design estimate with my best, average and worst data. Individual months do vary a lot, not just because of the seasons, but not every March is the same, for example.











shareef777 said:


> Anyone with experience in having the initial design changed? Would they have really just came onsite and put that equipment into a finished basement?


In 2019 when our Powerwalls were installed, the crew arrived with the idea that they would put them in my garage but I wanted them in my basement - opposite desire of you. They did what I wanted, even calling in some heavy lifter manpower to help get them downstairs because they are frickin' heavy. I would guess that the installation crew would be happy to put them in a location that is less effort for them to transport them to.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Bigriver said:


> Tesla does the calcs specifically for your location, your design. We went through several permutations of panel design, and the estimate changed each time. Even in the installation, 2 panels had to be moved from the plan and the estimated annual production changed slightly.
> 
> My final 11.97 kW system had estimated first year production of 13,603 kW. This is in the contract, but is provided only as an estimate and for the first year. Also in my contract is the guaranteed production for 20 years, and it is 85% of this estimate and my recollection is that it has 2% degradation/year assumed. In 2018, they also provided me with the monthly production estimate, but this is not in the contract. I believe it was in "proposals." It is seeming they are not providing this any more?
> 
> ...


Thanks. I'd imagine the difficulty will be getting any necessary connections from the main panel in the basement (which is full) up to the main level and out to the garage (not entirely sure how everything is wired up together).


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

So the design team got back to me and confirmed that they’ll install the Powerwalls in the garage. So that’s all good.

Next up is my existing wall connector is wired directly to the meter (with a fused disconnect). Apparently that’s a no-no and they’ll need to disconnect it. Hoping they’ll include a sub-panel in my garage (for the Powerwalls) that I can re-wire my WC to after the install.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Going on 2.5+ months and still waiting to schedule install. Just noticed that prices went up by $4k for the 19.2kW w/ 2 Powerwall systems. Hoping this doesn't lead to a price increase for me since I put my order in well before the latest price jumps.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Got a call that an electrician will be onsite tomorrow to plan/design the layout of the install. Assuming no issues I'm tentatively estimated for install mid May.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Well, as I somewhat expected, got dinged for some really minor "code violations" that'll likely hold up the project 🤦‍♂️

One MAJOR violation is my HPWC connecting directly to my meter. Ironically, not too concerned with that as I planned on hiring an electrician to run a 100A sub-panel to my garage off the main panel. Now the waiting game begins with getting that work done for install approval.


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

Directly to your meter or to the main panel?? How does one connect to a meter?


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Klaus-rf said:


> Directly to your meter or to the main panel?? How does one connect to a meter?


It taps off the main lugs (same as the ones feeding the main panel) and goes into a separate disconnect that feeds directly into the HPWC. Will have an electrician disconnect that line and rerun a separate 100A sub-panel in my garage and then reconnect the HPWC to a 60A breaker off that sub-panel.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Update from Tesla:

I have some good news. We had a small backlog of projects that were Install-Ready and could not be scheduled previously because of supply chain delays. That small backlog has been completely scheduled out. We will start processing the ComEd applications for all of our projects as quickly as possible. I do not have an ETA yet, but should in a couple of weeks. The good news is we are moving forward.

Continuing the waiting game.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

So had another door to door salesman try to pitch me solar. Told him I'm already signed up for solar with Tesla and he was confused... "the car company?". I find it hard to believe any legit solar company is unaware of Tesla being in the market. The guy noticed my Tesla's in my garage and we chatted up a conversation about them. He apparently is fully aware of Elon's attempt to buy twitter, and knew A LOT of details about the vehicles. Strange that he wouldn't know about their solar division.

Regardless, told him to just go to their website and price out what they're offering and see if he can match it (don't even have to beat it considering Tesla is months out from installing and I'd jump on another matching deal if they can install sooner). Went to grab him a screenshot and noticed they now are offering 21.6 and 24kW systems. Now I'm tempted to ask my project advisor if my setup can go with a larger install (as it is the 19.2kW system I ordered is only an 82% offset, and that's before we eventually get a 3rd EV). But it seems the smallest of change can derail the entire project.


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## lance.bailey (Apr 1, 2019)

we can't even get solar up here in Canada. Cancelled it about a year back. No wall units, no roof panels/shingles, nothing.

My roof times out in 15 years. Perhaps by then, but can't even put in the order. sigh.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Woohoo, just got an email from my utility provider:

Dear Valued Customer,

There has been status change activity on your project at XXX. Your project is currently in the In Completeness Review status.

*Status Change Activity

Submitted*

A completed interconnection application has been submitted on your behalf by Tesla. Once the application fee is received from your contractor, we will begin reviewing the application.

*Payment Received*

ComEd has received the application fee and will review your interconnection application soon. You'll be notified of the next steps in the process shortly.

*In Completeness Review*

Your interconnection application is currently being reviewed. Please visit this page regularly for the latest application status updates.

You can view the latest activity for your Project in ComEd's Customer Project Tracker found here: https://secure.comed.com/mygeneration/project

Thank you, 
Green Power Connection Team


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Another update. Just got a request for confirmation for the IL shines program (essentially giving my SREC credits directly to Tesla).


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> Another update. Just got a request for confirmation for the IL shines program (essentially giving my SREC credits directly to Tesla).


And what benefit do you get to sign over the SREC credits?

When we installed in 2018 in PA, Tesla offered a few hundred dollars to sign over the credits. I said no. To date I've gotten about $1200 payout from selling the SRECs.I know they are very state specific, and the price here has fluctuated a good bit. But curious what the situation is in Illinois.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Bigriver said:


> And what benefit do you get to sign over the SREC credits?
> 
> When we installed in 2018 in PA, Tesla offered a few hundred dollars to sign over the credits. I said no. To date I've gotten about $1200 payout from selling the SRECs.I know they are very state specific, and the price here has fluctuated a good bit. But curious what the situation is in Illinois.


From what I've seen, I'm signing over all SRECs generated over the next 15years (based on the installed system size). For my 19kW system, I'm getting an up front credit of just over $17k.

Suppose I can opt out and try to sell on my own, but that'd mean that A) I'd have to come up with an additional $17k when the system is turned on, AND B) that the value of SRECs remain high over the next 15 years (which I'd imagine they won't as more solar is adopted across the state).


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## RMKYHN (11 mo ago)

At long last we have Utility and Building Department approvals and an install date! Our 12.4 kW 2 Power Wall system is going to be installed by Tesla in early June. WIth 2 Tesla vehicles and Ebikes we have green energy transportation down. Next step is to get our HVAC and water heater on electric power. It used to be that my Electric bill was $300+(month) in winter/summer and the Gas was <$100. Due to steep price increases, gas is $300+ in those seasons as well. A more efficient Pool Pump helped lower the Electric bill a bit but it's still high. 

In any case, this move was NOT a strictly ROI based decision. With fossil fuel energy being one of the clear and present dangers facing the planet, we are doing this to minimize our contribution to the problem. Being in California, even our local special district Energy Company is committed to eliminate 100% of the greenhouse gas emissions from their power supply by 2030. Our system will be adding power to the grid in support of that goal and we believe that's the right way to do Solar. 

Having an energy reserve to avoid the ever increasing natural disaster outages was a secondary consideration but with all the turmoil in the world, and with an uncertain energy supply, being able to generate essential power for our home is a very nice benefit. Our choice of a Tesla Solar system was based largely upon my belief in the company and it's goals, not the bottom line cost or even the spotty customer service reported by many. I'm sure there will be more bumps in the road but I'm now retired and have the time and energy (pun intended) to deal with them as they arise.


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## TrevP (Oct 20, 2015)

lance.bailey said:


> we can't even get solar up here in Canada. Cancelled it about a year back. No wall units, no roof panels/shingles, nothing.
> 
> My roof times out in 15 years. Perhaps by then, but can't even put in the order. sigh.


Yeah it's really depressing to not have access to any of that. Besides, the costs would be astronomical I think compared to what's already available on the market (panels) just to be Tesla branded


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## RMKYHN (11 mo ago)

TrevP said:


> Yeah it's really depressing to not have access to any of that. Besides, the costs would be astronomical I think compared to what's already available on the market (panels) just to be Tesla branded


And there I was envying you Canadians for your stability, healthcare and less unhinged politics.

Look at the positives, with global warming, you'll soon have California weather and Solar will actually make sense ... ;-)


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## lance.bailey (Apr 1, 2019)

RMKYHN said:


> And there I was envying you Canadians for your stability, healthcare and less unhinged politics.
> 
> Look at the positives, with global warming, you'll soon have California weather and Solar will actually make sense ... ;-)


you joke, but in the 30 years I have lived here in the Vancouver area, the summers have been sunny, warm and dry. Last couple of years we have had three drops and a sprinkle in the months of July and August. I did not used to be that way. I get excellent sun exposure on the south and west sides of the house (some on the east, but the roof is a chopfest of gables). I really look forward to solar of some flavour.

I just really like the formfactor of the PowerWalls. Generac is similar, so I might go with them.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

The updates keep coming. thought the design was already done 🤔 

Logged into my account. Was asked to verify payment details again.


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## RMKYHN (11 mo ago)

lance.bailey said:


> you joke, but in the 30 years I have lived here in the Vancouver area, the summers have been sunny, warm and dry. Last couple of years we have had three drops and a sprinkle in the months of July and August. I did not used to be that way. I get excellent sun exposure on the south and west sides of the house (some on the east, but the roof is a chopfest of gables). I really look forward to solar of some flavour.
> 
> I just really like the formfactor of the PowerWalls. Generac is similar, so I might go with them.


At best it was truth in jest. Get ready cause we Californians are eyeballing your country and a migration north is likely. Get ready for large numbers of EV's, Cale, Avocado Toast and of course colonics. You may want to build your own wall ...


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Interconnection is now approved!

Dear Valued Customer,

There has been status change activity on your project at XXXXX. Your project is currently in the Approved status.

*Status Change Activity

In Technical Review*

Your interconnection application is currently being reviewed. Please visit this page regularly for the latest application status updates.

*Approved*

Once the system has been built, the Certificate of Completion will need to be uploaded in order to complete the Interconnection application process. CAUTION: Please do not operate your system until you receive a counter-signed Certificate of Completion from ComEd. System operation in advance of receiving the signed Certificate of Completion creates a potential safety hazard and is a violation of Illinois statute, and may result in disconnection of electric service.

You can view the latest activity for your Project in ComEd's Customer Project Tracker found here: https://secure.comed.com/mygeneration/project

Thank you, 
Green Power Connection Team


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## lance.bailey (Apr 1, 2019)

RMKYHN said:


> Get ready for large numbers of EV's, Cale, Avocado Toast and of course colonics. You may want to build your own wall ...


Already there for all but one of those. Which one is left as an exercise for the reader.


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## RMKYHN (11 mo ago)

lance.bailey said:


> Already there for all but one of those. Which one is left as an exercise for the reader.


Yeah, I don't like Cale either ...


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Got an email today asking me to login and "Review and Accept Your Payment Terms".

Not sure how many ways/times I need to confirm my payment info 🤦‍♂️


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## RMKYHN (11 mo ago)

I received notification that Tesla had moved up my Solar install a week without my requesting this. I had a conflict with the new date and had to call Tesla Energy to resolve. The good news is they restored my original install date. When looking at the Manage the Solar Install section of the My Account page they indicate that the equipment would be delivered 2-3 days prior to installation which was also a problem for me. In speaking to the CS person on the phone, I was told this was incorrect, The Solar Panels, Power Walls and other equipment would be on the truck with the installation crew.

So I guess this solar installation will be happening, Only took 9 months after order to finally happen. Tesla Energy is still reeling from the culture shock of the Tesla acquisition and, the supply chain nightmare that affected the entire industry. I hope that Elon puts some of his energy (pun intended) into making Tesla Energy as good as the other Tesla companies. I have no regrets and believe that once the Tesla business culture fully absorbs the old Solar City way of doing business, the full potential of Tesla Energy will be realized.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

RMKYHN said:


> I received notification that Tesla had moved up my Solar install a week without my requesting this. I had a conflict with the new date and had to call Tesla Energy to resolve. The good news is they restored my original install date. When looking at the Manage the Solar Install section of the My Account page they indicate that the equipment would be delivered 2-3 days prior to installation which was also a problem for me. In speaking to the CS person on the phone, I was told this was incorrect, The Solar Panels, Power Walls and other equipment would be on the truck with the installation crew.
> 
> So I guess this solar installation will be happening, Only took 9 months after order to finally happen. Tesla Energy is still reeling from the culture shock of the Tesla acquisition and, the supply chain nightmare that affected the entire industry. I hope that Elon puts some of his energy (pun intended) into making Tesla Energy as good as the other Tesla companies. I have no regrets and believe that once the Tesla's business culture fully absorbs the old Solar City way of doing business, the full potential of Tesla Energy will be realized.


Tesla bought Solar City 6 years ago. I don't see much else changing now, especially with the supply chain issues.


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## lance.bailey (Apr 1, 2019)

lance.bailey said:


> I just really like the formfactor of the PowerWalls. Generac is similar, so I might go with


looking at the Generec (Gentech) PWRcell product (similar to the PowerWall in formfactor), the docs say that the optimal ambient operating temperature as 5C to 40C (41F to 104F).

The maximum ambient operating temperature is -10C to 50C (14F to 122F). Does that mean if my winter temperature drops below -10C/14F that the unit will no longer work? Even out here on the west coast I occasionally drop below -10C in Febrrrary.

Does the PowerWall have a similar restriction?


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

lance.bailey said:


> looking at the Generec (Gentech) PWRcell product (similar to the PowerWall in formfactor), the docs say that the optimal ambient operating temperature as 5C to 40C (41F to 104F).
> 
> The maximum ambient operating temperature is -10C to 50C (14F to 122F). Does that mean if my winter temperature drops below -10C/14F that the unit will no longer work? Even out here on the west coast I occasionally drop below -10C in Febrrrary.
> 
> Does the PowerWall have a similar restriction?


*What are the environmental requirements for a Powerwall installation?*
Powerwall and Backup Gateway units are rated for installation indoors or outdoors, and can operate within a wide range of temperatures, from -20°C to 50°C (-4°F to 122°F). At the high and low ends of this temperature range, Powerwall may limit charge or discharge power based on battery cell temperature to improve battery lifespan. To optimize performance, avoid installing Powerwall in locations exposed to direct sunlight or subject to sustained high or low temperatures.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

It’s one of the reasons I opted to have mine installed in the garage. Surprised Tesla design initially had it outside where we’ve hit below zero temps in Chicago.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Another update

Received (and approved/signed) a "Schedule A Purchase Order Agreement" and "Schedule B Renewable Energy Credit Agreement".

The schedule A document is just a list of my order (not sure why they needed yet ANOTHER form for that).

Equipment & System Installation Description
ITEM
19.2 kW (STC) PhotovotaicSystem
18,900 kWh/yr Estimated First Year Annual Production
2 Battery(ies): Tesla Tesla Powerwall 2, 13.5 kWh, 5kW, 7kW surge
48 PV Panels: Tesla T400H
2 Inverter(s): Tesla Powerwall+ 7.6
Tesla Powerwall+ 7.6

Mounting System
Powerguide Solar Energy Monitoring System (20 Years)
System Installation



The Schedule B document essentially states that they're taking my SREC credits in lieu of a credit on the purchase, and that I have obligations to ensure they get the credits. Really, the only obligation is for me to maintain internet service for reporting purposes.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

I GOT AN INSTALL DATE!!!


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

On, Wayne!!


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## RMKYHN (11 mo ago)

I also have an install scheduled for the week of June 13th. 

*Your Order*
12.24 kW Solar Panel System
Estimated energy produced: 14,538 kWh /yr
2 Powerwalls

My main concern is the poor customer service reported by many. I feel like if the system gets installed correctly, and I have few if any issues, it will be smooth sailing just like my Tesla auto purchases.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

RMKYHN said:


> if the system gets installed correctly,


This "IF" is what gives me pause. I'm very interested in a solar system. But, Tesla's poor track record for customer non-service has held me back. I'm actively investigating more reliable (and likely less expensive) local alternatives.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

FRC said:


> This "IF" is what gives me pause. I'm very interested in a solar system. But, Tesla's poor track record for customer non-service has held me back. I'm actively investigating more reliable (and likely less expensive) local alternatives.


I haven't been able to find a single provider even remotely close to Tesla's price which is what got me to roll with them.

As for install issues. As far as I've been told and read, I only pay once it passes inspection. So if they mess anything up, they don't get paid till it's fixed.


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## RMKYHN (11 mo ago)

Tesla offered 10 year financiancing @ .99% interest and a small down payment. I find low interest, reasonable term financing a no brainer. Also, this payment method may provide some additional leverage if there are unresolved issues with the system. The Solar industry is kind of shady (see what I did there and Tesla Energy isn't immune to at least some of the supply chain issues that cause most of the hardware problems. I feel good about Tesla as a company long term and I'm sure that as this segment matures they will get better at everything Solar. A leap of faith for sure but then, any long term investment in this quickly changing tech landscape will have some issues and risks. My money is on Tesla to be the dominant player in this space ...


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

shareef777 said:


> I haven't been able to find a single provider even remotely close to Tesla's price which is what got me to roll with them.
> 
> As for install issues. As far as I've been told and read, I only pay once it passes inspection. So if they mess anything up, they don't get paid till it's fixed.


It can pass inspection and still not work.

My installation went pretty smoothly (IIRC they had to come back for some ticky-tacky thing like having proper signage), but I have a friend where it passed inspection but then generated something like 5% of the power it was supposed to. So yes, they had already paid, and had to keep bugging Tesla to come out multiple times until it finally got fixed. As I recall, the bozos who came out from Tesla's contractor were trying to claim that the panels were all in series, so that if snow was covering one of them none of them would generate power, which is an incredibly lame attempt at claiming it was functioning as intended. They eventually fixed whatever the problem was, but it took a couple of months. After that, though, it's been working well for them.

Hopefully yours goes smoother!


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

DocScott said:


> It can pass inspection and still not work.
> 
> My installation went pretty smoothly (IIRC they had to come back for some ticky-tacky thing like having proper signage), but I have a friend where it passed inspection but then generated something like 5% of the power it was supposed to. So yes, they had already paid, and had to keep bugging Tesla to come out multiple times until it finally got fixed. As I recall, the bozos who came out from Tesla's contractor were trying to claim that the panels were all in series, so that if snow was covering one of them none of them would generate power, which is an incredibly lame attempt at claiming it was functioning as intended. They eventually fixed whatever the problem was, but it took a couple of months. After that, though, it's been working well for them.
> 
> Hopefully yours goes smoother!


Yeah, been looking at some YouTube videos of installs and I now see that the scheduled install date is only the start of many potential issues. Only thing I can do is keep my fingers crossed.


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## RMKYHN (11 mo ago)

There just aren't that many *current* Tesla solar install Youtube videos. There certainly were/are problems with installs but a lot depends upon the Utility you are working (or not) with. My electric utility is SMUD and they have reasonable rates and, a plan aiming for Zero Carbon emission energy by 2030.

Despite the recent attempt by the CA PUC to tax new solar installs (currently on indefinite hold), SMUD is one of the few energy companies truly focused on clean energy. It appears that my new system that should be installed in a couple of weeks. will slip in under the threat of the proposed solar tax. My motivation to finally do solar isn't entirely cost based and I'm looking forward to the solar install come what may.

Yes, it's a complex issue but I want my home to be as carbon neutral as possible and will be making energy consuming product purchases that are in support of that goal. Considering what the states largest utility PG&E charges for electricity/gas, freeing yourself from that bloated bureaucratic utility should be a high priority for all Californians.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Need some help with understanding how the install will go (so that I don't run into any unforeseen issues leading up to, or day of, my install day).










Above is the final design layout. Trying to ensure that there's enough space for equipment and that they're able to run all the runs they need.

From what I gather the "Inv/ESS" are the two Powerwall2+ (which includes the inverters). The image above shows that they're going to be installed in the garage on the left front (when facing the garage). Is the "relay" in the diagram the Tesla Backup Gateway? I know the (M) is my utility meter and the (D) is my existing load center (inside my basement). Curious where the Gateway is going to be installed as they'll need to run cables for both PW and my Tesla wall connector to this gateway.










The AC wiring diagram (also included in the design doc) shows that they'll be installing a new load center. From what I've read, this is an optional accessory that gets install INSIDE the Gateway. It's a 12circuit, 6 space board that'll be just enough to support 3 double pole breakers required for the 2 PW and wall connector. Based off the Gateway being installed right next to the meter, it'll be a short run to my existing load center (cool), but a long run to the garage where the PW/connector are located. Would it make sense to reach out to my advisor and ask him to relocate the gateway to inside my home and just have a long run from my meter to the gateway and then back to my internal load center.

What's not called out is wether or not EVERYTHING will be backed up by the PW (including the EV wall connector). From what I can tell, it will be, but am wondering if that's something that also needs to be called out.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> What's not called out is wether or not EVERYTHING will be backed up by the PW (including the EV wall connector). From what I can tell, it will be, but am wondering if that's something that also needs to be called out.


I know that my wall connector is not backed up by the Powerwalls. I understood this to be the normal configuration, as each PW can only deliver at rate of 5 kW, AND if you are in power outage situation, that is not the time to want to use high load items that will quickly drain the Powerwalls. I could charge my car with a mobile connector during a grid outage, just not the wall connector. I obviously can use the wall connector when not in backup mode, with it pulling from solar, PW, and/or grid based on settings.

As for the locations of things, I have thought these are more schematics, not necessarily defining locations. The location of my PWs were determined the day of the install. And even 2 of my solar panels had to be moved as they didn't actually fit where planned. Of course YMMV.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Bigriver said:


> I know that my wall connector is not backed up by the Powerwalls. I understood this to be the normal configuration, as each PW can only deliver at rate of 5 kW, AND if you are in power outage situation, that is not the time to want to use high load items that will quickly drain the Powerwalls. I could charge my car with a mobile connector during a grid outage, just not the wall connector. I obviously can use the wall connector when not in backup mode, with it pulling from solar, PW, and/or grid based on settings.
> 
> As for the locations of things, I have thought these are more schematics, not necessarily defining locations. The location of my PWs were determined the day of the install. And even 2 of my solar panels had to be moved as they didn't actually fit where planned. Of course YMMV.


Nice to know they adapt on the day of install. Wanted to get all my ducks in a row so that I don't get pushed into either an unsightly install or capabilities removed un-necessarily.

My internal load center is completely full, and is located in my finished basement, so my guess is that they don't want to mess with that at all. They'll just run the two positive legs, a neutral, and a ground straight from my internal panel to the Gateway backup side. I've been trying to find documentation/install guides on the PW2+, but have only found it on the PW2. Assuming the plus variant just includes the inverter which is wired internally to the battery so that the solar generation is handled internally to the PW. With that in mind this diagram depicts what I can expect:










The only difference would be that the first two breakers are for each PW and the third would be for my EV. But with that design in mind, it'd mean the EV is backed up by battery. The internal load center is needed for the PW connections, and therefore all circuits on it would be backed by battery.

I def understand (and agree) with the concern of both PW being completely drained in a couple hours if an EV was plugged in and charging. I'm not even sure that the two PW would be able to charge the EV since it pulls 11.5kW sustained and I only have 10kW available from the two PW.

There's a non-backed set of lugs for L1/L2 that sits below the internal panel board. Not sure if they're still useable after the optional internal board is installed. And even if they where, they'd need to run those to yet another board that would hold the breaker for the EV connector.


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## to2000ny (Jan 23, 2020)

Ordered my system May 2021. Easy to submit all online information. They finished system December 2021. Finally received PTO and net meter (after submitting PSC complaint) May 2022. The 24 panels and 2 power walls are great. Nice products.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

to2000ny said:


> Ordered my system May 2021. Easy to submit all online information. They finished system December 2021. Finally received PTO and net meter (after submitting PSC complaint) May 2022. The 24 panels and 2 power walls are great. Nice products.


Ouch, took 6mo for the PTO to get completed.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Reached out to Tesla and they verified that the backup gateway will be installed right next to my meter. This allows a short run from the meter to the gateway and from my internal load center to the gateway. Con is that they will have long runs for the two powerwall+ units and the Tesla Wall Connector. Seeing as those three devices will each have a breaker in the gateway, that seems to be the safest design overall.

That covers the physical layout, but I'm still baffled by the electrical layout. Seeing as the gateway is the central hub now everything seems fine when I'm on-grid. 200A breaker comes in and feeds my existing panel, which also has a 200A internal breaker. What's confusing is how will the system function when I'm off-grid and fed by solar/battery. Even under full sun and fully charged PWs, there's only 100A (combined) of breakers feeding the gateway. Wouldn't they trip with enough load from my internal panel (irrespective of my EV usage)?


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

About two weeks out from install. Never really got a good answer on how 100A of PW power will be enough for my home. I get the concept of "long as you're not USING 100A you'll be fine", but what mechanism is there to stop my internal load center from drawing more than that?










At this point, I'm pretty confident that I'll have to learn to disable/stop using high draw equipment during power outages. The wall connector alone would likely trip the PW breakers. Wish there was documentation on the PW2+ so I can verify if the system would continue to generate solar power (directly to the batteries) if the gateway breaker was tripped.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> At this point, I'm pretty confident that I'll have to learn to disable/stop using high draw equipment during power outages.


Yes, I’m taking that it is configured so that anything could be operated, but that doesn’t mean at once. And not only a concern about the instantaneous load, but those Powerwalls have finite energy stored in them. We find that when we become aware of a grid outage, we tend to cut nonessentials just because you really don’t know how long the outage will last. It’s certainly not the time to catch up on the overdue laundry and it would have to be a cataclysmic event for me to allot some of it to car charging.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Bigriver said:


> Yes, I’m taking that it is configured so that anything could be operated, but that doesn’t mean at once. And not only a concern about the instantaneous load, but those Powerwalls have finite energy stored in them. We find that when we become aware of a grid outage, we tend to cut nonessentials just because you really don’t know how long the outage will last. It’s certainly not the time to catch up on the overdue laundry and it would have to be a cataclysmic event for me to allot some of it to car charging.


Have you ever overdrawn your PW capabilities? Does it just trip the circuit. Trying to understand/set expectations for the system.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> Have you ever overdrawn your PW capabilities? Does it just trip the circuit. Trying to understand/set expectations for the system.


Nope, never exceeded PW capabilities. As I said, if we take any action we are turning things off. Never thought to turn more on!


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

shareef777 said:


> About two weeks out from install. Never really got a good answer on how 100A of PW power will be enough for my home. I get the concept of "long as you're not USING 100A you'll be fine", but what mechanism is there to stop my internal load center from drawing more than that?


That got me curious: how much max power do I draw in my house? I also have a 200 amp panel.

I checked my history and found a 18kW whole-house peak. This happened when simultaneously charging the Model 3 (at 48 amps) and running the clothes dryer. If I had also been charging the Volt, that would have added another 3kW. Add another 3kW for our whole-house air conditioner. Those are by far the most power-hungry systems in my house. 24kW at 240v means everything together would draw about 100 amps. And that would be a worst-case scenario. So if the powerwalls can handle 100 amps, you're probably in good shape.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

garsh said:


> That got me curious: how much max power do I draw in my house? I also have a 200 amp panel.
> 
> I checked my history and found a 18kW whole-house peak. This happened when simultaneously charging the Model 3 (at 48 amps) and running the clothes dryer. If I had also been charging the Volt, that would have added another 3kW. Add another 3kW for our whole-house air conditioner. Those are by far the most power-hungry systems in my house. 24kW at 240v means everything together would draw about 100 amps. And that would be a worst-case scenario. So if the powerwalls can handle 100 amps, you're probably in good shape.
> 
> View attachment 44069


Thanks for the info, what're you using to track usage?

According to this: https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/...filename="powerwall-plus-datasheet-na-en.pdf"

The most concurrent draw I can have on a single PW+ is up to 7kW (assuming no sun), so 14kW for the pair. Curious what would happen if I had too many items running that would take it beyond the PW's limits.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> he most concurrent draw I can have on a single PW+ is up to 7kW (assuming no sun), so 14kW for the pair.


Tesla has improved the PW+ compared to my Powerwalls 2.0. These are my power limitations per powerwall:


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

shareef777 said:


> Thanks for the info, what're you using to track usage?



An old TED 5000 system
Some custom software that my oldest wrote for senior project in high school. 
InfluxDB for storage
Grafana for the UI


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Bigriver said:


> Tesla has improved the PW+ compared to my Powerwalls 2.0. These are my power limitations per powerwall:
> View attachment 44070


I believe those stats are from the PW2. The PW+ is in the link I'd previously posted. I'm not understanding why it would provide LESS power while on-grid, or how it factors in at all while on-grid since the grid can provide any auxiliary power needed if solar wasn't sufficient.


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

^
If you are on a TOU plan, using power from another, less-expensive time will help lower your costs by consuming that power during peak time periods.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Klaus-rf said:


> ^
> If you are on a TOU plan, using power from another, less-expensive time will help lower your costs by consuming that power during peak time periods.


Took myself off the TOU plan last Sept as I couldn't curb usage during peak times which caused my monthly bills to be higher then they would have been. I'm eligible to re-sign up in Sept and hoping I'd have a better idea of how the PW can be leveraged.

Also don't know how net metering would work with ComEd (my utility provider) while on TOU. ComEd doesn't issue any dollar credits for energy sent to the grid. We just get credited for kWh. So if I sent an excess of 1000 kWh for the month, how do they determine how that credit is used the following month if my generation is short?


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Still on-track:

Hi Shareef, we're confirming your Tesla Energy installation is Scheduled for 2022-06-29 with an arrival window of 7:00 AM - 9:00 AM. We sent an email that outlines what to expect. For more details or questions, learn more in your Tesla Account. tesla.com/teslaaccount

Reply STOP to End.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> hoping I'd have a better idea of how the PW can be leveraged


I expect that the Powerwall will make TOU good for you. While I think TOU plans vary widely, the one aspect I expect to be true for most people is that they can use their solar + PW to stay off the grid during peak hours. Even if there are some days this is not true, I find it to easily be true for a billing cycle, which is all that matters. It is a little different thinking to use the Powerwall during the day and shut it off at the end of the peak period, but I think that is really the central element of what could make the TOU plan better with solar+PW. I just started a TOU plan last October and I have never had a net usage of electricity during the peak. I always send back more than I use.


shareef777 said:


> Also don't know how net metering would work with ComEd (my utility provider) while on TOU. ComEd doesn't issue any dollar credits for energy sent to the grid. We just get credited for kWh. So if I sent an excess of 1000 kWh for the month, how do they determine how that credit is used the following month if my generation is short?


That is precisely the question that I had, and why I joined my TOU plan, to find the answer, because I couldn’t find anyone who seemed to even understand the question! Anyway, again, your TOU may be different, but this is how it works here.

The net metering tracking is still all in kWh.

For a month that I send more to the grid than I use, that is added to my kWh bank. Exactly as if I wasn’t on a TOU plan.

For a month that I use more than I send, and if I have enough kWh in my bank to cover the deficit, then I am credited the banked kWh and I am not billed for any kWh. Exactly as if I wasn’t on a TOU plan.

When I use more than I send to the grid and I don’t have enough in the kWh bank to cover it, that’s when the TOU comes into play. It’s probably easiest for me to explain the math with an example:
-30 kWh previous bank
-70 kWh peak sent to grid (net)
200 kWh off-peak used
600 kWh super-off peak used
700 kWh total billed

The 100 kWh (30+70) credit gets split between the off-peak and super off-peak rate periods based on what percentage of use was in those periods. So in this example, 25% of the grid us was off-peak and 75% super off-peak. I am then billed the 700 kWh based on the following rate periods:
175 kWh off-peak
525 kWh super off-peak

Eliminating any peak rate in the billing makes it always better than the non-TOU plan for months that I owe $.

When the once a year “true up” occurs where they pay me for any excess in my kWh bank, it again is essentially the same as if I wasn’t on the TOU plan, as my excess kWh are reimbursed at the base non-TOU “rate to compare”.

So in summary, there is no downside to me for my TOU plan. I can for sure have net negative grid usage during the peak period. But there is also not much (or any) benefit in that they don’t increase my credit for sending more to the grid during high rate periods. Actually, it’s a bit ironic that the excess kWh that have all been banked during the peak rate period, get credited back to me primarily to offset super off-peak usage, as shown in the example above.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Got my 1 week out notification.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)




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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

Don't forget to get aerial footage!


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## lance.bailey (Apr 1, 2019)

very very exciting.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Day 1 in the books, and couldn’t ask for a better crew. On-time (showed up 8a in a 7-9a window), knowledgeable (they got to work quick), and passionate (they all enjoyed what they did and were enthusiastic to talk to me and teach me about what the work involved).

They got 32/48 panels up today and will get the remainder by tomorrow afternoon. The design doc called for a 12” standing space on the perimeter of my roof (apparently a code requirement). The satellite image they based the doc on didn’t portray the sizing accurately and one side only had 6” of space. They reached out to the city building department and got authorization to proceed as long as the other sides were 12”+ (which they were). Interestingly the alternative was to remove 6 panels from the design and install 42 panels only 😳. Couldn’t believe that was a legitimate alternative.















Both PW were hung (no inverters) in the garage right where I’d requested. All in all, a clean install so far, and I appreciate an eye for detail. They took into consideration a wall cabinet I have when running the conduit so that I’ll be able to push it all the way back to the wall. Original design had the conduit on an inside corner with a wide bend that would have prevented my cabinet from going all the way back. They changed it to an outside install and now my cabinet will fit and it kept everything relegated to just a single wall on the inside of my garage. Which also sits over a lip, so nothing can be pushed into it.















Additionally they got the backup gateway, fused disconnect, and an outside junction box. The line for my WC is the first (and hopefully only) hiccup. They said they wouldn’t reconnect the WC (as planned) because they didn’t run the wires themselves and couldn’t guarantee it’d pass inspection. They said if I want my WC connected they have to complete a new run and that it’d be considered a “home improvement agreement”. The lead estimates it’ll be a $700 cost and now I’m waiting for confirmation on that. Hoping it doesn’t go higher as all they needed to do was re-run the ground (apparently I have #12 and need #10) and redo some of the conduit connectors as the ones installed were not outdoor rated. Figured I’d proceed with the $700 cost (even though it’s high for the minor changes they’re planning on doing). They offered to run the line for the WC into the junction box next to the gateway and allow my own electrician to finish the run afterward if I wanted.









Plugged both our Teslas last night and charged to 80%. Did a little bit more then expected driving today and got down to 60%. I really don’t understand how anyone gets by with L1. It feels like you might as well just be walking 😂















The only thing left is to mount the inverter, install the remaining 16 panels, and re-run the line for the WC, Then it’s just running all the wires and flipping the switch.


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

shareef777 said:


> Day 1 in the books, and couldn’t ask for a better crew. On-time (showed up 8a in a 7-9a window), knowledgeable (they got to work quick), and passionate (they all enjoyed what they did and were enthusiastic to talk to me and teach me about what the work involved).
> 
> They got 32/48 panels up today and will get the remainder by tomorrow afternoon. The design doc called for a 12” standing space on the perimeter of my roof (apparently a code requirement). The satellite image they based the doc on didn’t portray the sizing accurately and one side only had 6” of space. They reached out to the city building department and got authorization to proceed as long as the other sides were 12”+ (which they were). Interestingly the alternative was to remove 6 panels from the design and install 42 panels only 😳. Couldn’t believe that was a legitimate alternative.
> 
> ...


So jealous!


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

@shareef777 , when looking at your pictures, I'm seeing some strange labeling on them.
It looks like some automated system is trying to guess the content of each photo.
The labels kind of make sense for each photo, but they're also hilariously wrong.

Do you know where this labeling comes from? @Adminstrator, is this something that the forum is adding?

*Building Window Sky Fixture Wood*
*Sky Window Building Fixture Grey*
*Door Flooring Floor Rectangle Font*
*Electrical wiring Gas Machine Electrical supply Wood*
*Tire Wheel Car Hood Automotive tire*
*Tire Wheel Vehicle Automotive lighting Automotive tire*
*Plant Tire Wheel Tree Automotive tire*
*Motor vehicle Automotive tire Automotive design Automotive exterior Bumper*
*Property Window Road surface Grass Plant*


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

garsh said:


> @shareef777 , when looking at your pictures, I'm seeing some strange labeling on them.
> It looks like some automated system is trying to guess the content of each photo.
> The labels kind of make sense for each photo, but they're also hilariously wrong.
> 
> ...



No idea where the text is coming from. Added an image and added a line under “alt text” and originally the image showed no text. Then after a refresh it showed the random description. Seems to be the site adding the text.

Also, there’s no method for me to update that text. Would be a nice option.

Another bit of info, the text is only showing up on my phone. Not on my tablet or laptop.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

shareef777 said:


> Another bit of info, the text is only showing up on my phone. Not on my tablet or laptop.


Strange, it's showing on my laptop (chrome browser). But only when the various picture controls show up as well (left and right arrows to switch to other pictures in the thread, and the X to exit picture view).


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

garsh said:


> Strange, it's showing on my laptop (chrome browser). But only when the various picture controls show up as well (left and right arrows to switch to other pictures in the thread, and the X to exit picture view).


Alright, I SWEAR it wasn’t showing, but is now 🤷‍♂️


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

Is it done yet? Curious minds want to know.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Klaus-rf said:


> Is it done yet? Curious minds want to know.


Not yet, they arrived this morning 8am (love it when contractors show up when they say they will), and got back to working. They got the remaining 16 panels up on the roof and have conduit running between the gateway and power walls as well as the solar and inverters. They are now fishing the lines thru all the conduit and am told they'll be cutting my power shortly to switch me over to the gateway. Should be a two hour process. After that I'm sure they'll spend a few hours checking all lines before flipping on anything.

Also got confirmation that they'll cleanup my wall connector for $750, so that's nice. They're extremely meticulous so I'd imagine they won't wrap up today and will need to come back tomorrow to finalize things.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> couldn’t ask for a better crew


That was my experience too. Installation crew was awesome and nimbly dealt with unexpected items.


shareef777 said:


> only thing left is to mount the inverter, install the remaining 16 panels, and re-run the line for the WC, Then it’s just running all the wires and flipping the switch


We still had about a 6 week wait after installation before we had the authorizations in place to operate everything. I don’t remember all the details and also know that can vary for different locations, but I thought some post-installation approvals are typical.


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

Yes, the power company (or a representative for them) will inspect every installation before allowing it to supply power to/from their grid. Really bad things can happen if something is connected incorrectly.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Day two has come and gone and they only got better.









System is ONLINE!!!


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

You guys are correct in that I’m not able to send power to the grid yet (was told that usually takes about a month), but I’m on self-powered mode so that all the power from my solar is powering my home and any excess is sent to my PWs. System didn’t start generating power till late in the evening so I likely won’t have enough power to fully charge the two PWs today. Should be fully powered by tomorrow afternoon. Once fully charged I’ll switch to 100% self powered mode so that I can power off the PWs at night and purely solar during the day.

There’s not much left to do for the 3rd day. They have some side skirts to install on the roof panels (purely cosmetic), and have to run/connect the new WC wiring.

The only thing I plan on doing is opening everything up after they leave (before inspection is done) to verify that they didn’t cut the strings down (per a previous comment in this thread).


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

shareef777 said:


> They have some side skirts to install on the roof panels (purely cosmetic), and have to run/connect the new WC wiring.


 Those side skirts or chicken-wire cage skirts are critical to keep rodents out so they don't eat your panel wiring.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Klaus-rf said:


> Those side skirts or chicken-wire cage skirts are critical to keep rodents out so they don't eat your panel wiring.


Yeah, they got a majority of them installed (all done in the back, just a side on the front).


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

So I loaded some software to start tracking data from my solar setup. The details are relatively new to me so don't know how to parse the data yet, but if someone can chime in, I'd appreciate it.









String D and B1 remain at 0 the entire time. I was told that there'd be 4 strings.

Saw this paper while they were working that seems to confirm that:








So the question: why does A/A1 & C/C1 have voltage across both sides, while B/D don't?


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## Adminstrator (10 mo ago)

garsh said:


> @shareef777 , when looking at your pictures, I'm seeing some strange labeling on them.
> It looks like some automated system is trying to guess the content of each photo.
> The labels kind of make sense for each photo, but they're also hilariously wrong.
> 
> ...


When you start a thread you can add tags.










Jeff


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Adminstrator said:


> When you start a thread you can add tags.


Please re-read the question Jeff.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Couldn’t quite get to 100% PW charge due to two factors. First, it’s pretty cloudy so not much sun getting thru. And more importantly, I had the PW originally set to take 100% of the solar generation (charges faster), but switched it to only charge when there’s excess solar so I stay off the grid.

There’s no rush to charge the PW and I’m better off using any and all solar to power my home rather then charge PW that likely won’t be used much.


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## Adminstrator (10 mo ago)

garsh said:


> @shareef777 , when looking at your pictures, I'm seeing some strange labeling on them.
> It looks like some automated system is trying to guess the content of each photo.
> The labels kind of make sense for each photo, but they're also hilariously wrong.
> 
> ...


I am not seeing what you are describing, on my laptop. I am going to assume that it is something random that may be added as a description of the image but that would seem odd, if @shareef777 didn't add that. Are you able to share a screenshot?

~Mike D


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Unfortunately, since the system went live I've had cloudy weather non-stop.

Fri: 36.1kW
Sat: 82.1kW
Sun: 45.2kW
Mon: 52.5kW

Rest of this week isn't looking any better. Next expected sunny day is Sunday


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> Unfortunately, since the system went live I've had cloudy weather non-stop.
> 
> Fri: 36.1kW
> Sat: 82.1kW
> ...


We became like farmers when we got our solar… always thinking of the weather! Those really aren’t bad numbers. I think your system is 1.5 the size of mine. For me, 50 kWh is the daily average during summer, 70 kWh is a day we feel really good about. Then there are days like today, which I’m not sure we will reach 10 kWh.

So are you fully live, able to be connected to the grid? Or are you piecing it together in an off-grid state during the day to use solar/Powerwall?


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Bigriver said:


> We became like farmers when we got our solar… always thinking of the weather! Those really aren’t bad numbers. I think your system is 1.5 the size of mine. For me, 50 kWh is the daily average during summer, 70 kWh is a day we feel really good about. Then there are days like today, which I’m not sure we will reach 10 kWh.
> 
> So are you fully live, able to be connected to the grid? Or are you piecing it together in an off-grid state during the day to use solar/Powerwall?


I haven't received PTO yet so am only able to pull from the grid, no push. So far I'm still able to keep most of my power usage off grid.









A good chunk of the grid usage was yesterday after I got back late at night from a weekend trip out of town. We had all the lights/appliances on as we got situated at home. Couple that with the fact that it was very cloudy/raining/late so not much solar was being generated. AND then I went ahead and plugged in our Y anyway 🤷‍♂️ 










What I found interesting is that it would seem to indicate that the PW was being charged from the grid (though it explicitly states "grid charging restricted").

I believe we need to get into the habit of charging during the day when solar can provide a good chunk of the power needed for our vehicles. Also, the two PW that I have are barely enough to hold us overnight. This was from the night of July 3rd (when no one was at home):










Looks like solar generation started tapering off as it got dark (~6pm),and PW charge level got down to 20% ~6am. Tesla's site states we'd get 1 day on cloudy/winter days, but it seems like we'll get only half of that. Not a big deal as we rarely have power outages that long and once I have PTO pulling from the grid won't be an issue as long as the system averages 50kWh per day throughout the year.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> I haven't received PTO yet so am only able to pull from the grid, no push.


Is there a setting for this? I don’t recall this being an option in the app. Can see how you could easily accomplish this as long as the Powerwall isn’t full, but once they fill up, any excess solar has to go somewhere, and thus solar production cuts off if the grid is not available.


shareef777 said:


> it would seem to indicate that the PW was being charged from the grid (though it explicitly states "grid charging restricted").


Yes, in storm watch mode the Powerwall will charge from the grid if the Powerwall is not at 100%. This overrides another setting that says don’t charge PW from the grid. Storm watch can be turned off.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Bigriver said:


> Is there a setting for this? I don’t recall this being an option in the app. Can see how you could easily accomplish this as long as the Powerwall isn’t full, but once they fill up, any excess solar has to go somewhere, and thus solar production cuts off if the grid is not available.
> 
> Yes, in storm watch mode the Powerwall will charge from the grid if the Powerwall is not at 100%. This overrides another setting that says don’t charge PW from the grid. Storm watch can be turned off.


I never set it up, it was automatically in "Self-Consumption Only" mode. Essentially means that solar power will go to either the house for live use or PW to be stored for later use. Under Settings->PW there's an option to enable "Permission to Export". Till that's enabled I assume no power will go out to grid and it'll pull from grid whenever it needs power that solar/PW can't provide.

I also figured I'd have a lot of lost solar power till I have PTO. Trying to re-align my power usage inside my house to use as much solar as possible during the day and leverage the PW to drain as much as possible till the next morning. This morning my PW was at 20% and it was fully charged by 12pm (took about 4 hours of sunlight). Updated the setting to completely drain the PW now.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

Glad to know there is the self consumption option. Didn’t have that at my install, perhaps because I had to wait almost an extra year for my Powerwalls. So when I got my solar panels, I had a painful 6 weeks of bright, sunny June weather without being able to capture any of it.

We lost the grid for a couple of hours a few weeks ago in the middle of a sunny afternoon. The Powerwalls were full at the time so we briefly lost solar production until they had drained a bit. And for the first time ever during a grid outage, we went around turning things on trying to use the solar energy as it was being made. So I fully appreciate the situation you have.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

I can’t even hit peak capacity of my system. As it approaches peak, the PW got full and my house was only pulling ~5kW. Plugged in my 3 (was at 70% SOC) and solar generation climbed back up only to have my 3 get full (80% SOC) 30min later and solar generation begin to curtail again.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Got a call this morning about my availability for the inspection, and 10min later got a call back that they’d scheduled it with the city and I’m now set for my inspection next Tuesday.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

So not sure why, but my system seems to pull from the grid while there’s plenty of solar and PW capacity. Does this mean my home is limited to a max pull of ~14kW combined solar/PW and any additional load must come from grid?


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

@shareef777, What is your Powerwall backup % set at?


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Bigriver said:


> @shareef777, What is your Powerwall backup % set at?


20% backup, 80% self-powered


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> Does this mean my home is limited to a max pull of ~14kW combined solar/PW and any additional load must come from grid?


I wouldn’t expect that to be the situation. As your Powerwalls can together deliver 14 kW, I would expect that your solar can deliver on top of that. Here is a snapshot of my PWs at their max of 10 kW, with solar providing another 6.7 kW.










But I would also note that in the ever changing house load and solar transient, that there are brief moments that my system shows a grid pull.








These are always brief. Was your screenshot of a sustained situation that it was pulling from the grid?


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Bigriver said:


> I wouldn’t expect that to be the situation. As your Powerwalls can together deliver 14 kW, I would expect that your solar can deliver on top of that. Here is a snapshot of my PWs at their max of 10 kW, with solar providing another 6.7 kW.
> 
> View attachment 44392
> 
> ...


Thanks for the screenshots, very helpful.

I had it running for a few minutes and it continued to pull from the grid. It pulled a bit (~1kW). I’ll try tomorrow. I’ll have it pull for a longer time to see how much it grabs from the grid.

Im also thinking the app is not very accurate. I’m not pushing to the grid (disabled in the app) but it still shows as though it pushes.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> Im also thinking the app is not very accurate.


True. There is both a bit of a lag with real time and some curve-smoothing that makes the integrated totals a bit off. In my experience, the solar production shown in “Home Energy Gateway” is often off by about 1 kWh each day, relative to the “My Home” value (which is consistent with 2 other portals I have). The energy sent to/from the grid, though, is usually consistent with my utility, within 1 to 2 kWh for an entire month.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Bigriver said:


> I wouldn’t expect that to be the situation. As your Powerwalls can together deliver 14 kW, I would expect that your solar can deliver on top of that. Here is a snapshot of my PWs at their max of 10 kW, with solar providing another 6.7 kW.
> 
> View attachment 44392
> 
> ...


So it's definitely sustained while my 3/Y are charging (power draw is over 15kW).


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Inspector arrived/left without me even knowing. Passed and now waiting on email from Tesla that it passed inspection and to pay the bill. All that remains is PTO which is estimated to be 4-6 weeks.










Payment sent via ACH, have to wait for confirmation before they proceed on submitting interconnect paperwork (they say it'll take 3-5 business days)


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Still can’t pull more then ~14kW combined solar/pw. Makes it a PIA to stay off grid till PTO.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

shareef777 said:


> Still can’t pull more then ~14kW combined solar/pw. Makes it a PIA to stay off grid till PTO.


These sorts of issues make me wary of committing to solar power.
I'd hate to think I was ordering something to provide a certain power, then find out that it's not.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

garsh said:


> These sorts of issues make me wary of committing to solar power.
> I'd hate to think I was ordering something to provide a certain power, then find out that it's not.


What's perplexing is that my system is doing exactly what the spec sheet says (7.6kW max continuous power on-grid per PW, so 15.2 for the pair). Not sure how/why @Bigriver system is able to pull more. Maybe different PW model?


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Just got an email from my utility provider about the last year of usage and my comparison to everyone else











😬


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

shareef777 said:


> Just got an email from my utility provider about the last year of usage and my comparison to everyone else
> 
> 😬


LOL!

If only we could send them a graph plotting your gasoline expenditures last year compared to your neighbors.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> What's perplexing is that my system is doing exactly what the spec sheet says (7.6kW max continuous power on-grid per PW, so 15.2 for the pair). Not sure how/why @Bigriver system is able to pull more. Maybe different PW model?


It makes sense that the max out of your PWs is 15.2 kW, but what is surprising is that the solar + PW is limited to that. I have wondered if it is somehow linked to this temporary mode you are operating in until you get PTO? Or maybe mine is set up to allow full PW + solar (10 + 10 = 20 for me) because my solar was installed first, and PWs were added a year later (supply issues even before pandemic). That did affect my hardware, as I know there is a solar only gateway, then the gateway installed when PWs were added. I don’t know what else it affected. Honorable mention on my side is that we have our Tesla wall connector that is configured to support our model X charging at 72 amps, which is over 17 kW. While it is not included in our backup (grid down) configuration, it could have influenced our normal operation design. It’s a larger single load than most houses have.

If this 15.2 kW limit continues to apply for you after PTO, do you foresee that creating longterm issues for you? That’s just a really high load that I don’t expect many houses to pull during the day. And even if you have brief periods that high and have to pull from the grid, I would expect that to be counterbalanced by other periods of sending back to the grid.

BTW, just curious what max kW you’ve seen so far from your solar at the best time of a sunny day?


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Bigriver said:


> It makes sense that the max out of your PWs is 15.2 kW, but what is surprising is that the solar + PW is limited to that. I have wondered if it is somehow linked to this temporary mode you are operating in until you get PTO? Or maybe mine is set up to allow full PW + solar (10 + 10 = 20 for me) because my solar was installed first, and PWs were added a year later (supply issues even before pandemic). That did affect my hardware, as I know there is a solar only gateway, then the gateway installed when PWs were added. I don’t know what else it affected. Honorable mention on my side is that we have our Tesla wall connector that is configured to support our model X charging at 72 amps, which is over 17 kW. While it is not included in our backup (grid down) configuration, it could have influenced our normal operation design. It’s a larger single load than most houses have.
> 
> If this 15.2 kW limit continues to apply for you after PTO, do you foresee that creating longterm issues for you? That’s just a really high load that I don’t expect many houses to pull during the day. And even if you have brief periods that high and have to pull from the grid, I would expect that to be counterbalanced by other periods of sending back to the grid.
> 
> BTW, just curious what max kW you’ve seen so far from your solar at the best time of a sunny day?


Since your PW were installed after the solar/inverter went in I'm assuming they're not PW+. That could be the differing factor as I'm assuming my energy path is PV->Inverter->PW->Gateway/Panel (x2). Whereas you have a direct feed from your inverter to your panel AND a feed from your PW into the same panel you can pull more in.

I don't foresee a longterm issue at all. I've actually limited both our Teslas to charge at 32A, which is about half the total the PW+ system can provide. The other half is if our AC kicks on (along with whatever else we have powered on in our home). Once PTO is given, I have no care if I'm pulling/pushing to the grid, the goal is that ALL solar power that I CAN generate is credited to me one way or another. I peaked at about 13.4kW today till about 12pm when it inexplicably dropped to 5.5kW. PW were fully charged and AC was still running. Then about 2pm it dropped to 2.2kW (AC turned off) till just now when I noticed my solar plummet. Plugged in our Y and it came right back up.









Peak was on July 6th @1:20pm hitting 14.1kW. July 9th/10th were particularly sunny days where the system generated 112kW each day. I've been able to generate 1MW already.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Received confirmation that payment was processed and now I await PTO. My utility provider has a website setup to track interconnection requests. Mine currently shows “Action Required: Certificate of Completion Needed”. Waiting on Tesla now to submit it now that payment has been verified by them.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

A couple observations after the first couple weeks of ownership.

1.) Two powerwalls are NOT enough to run my house. At 100% charge my PW are down to 20% by 4am, well before the sun is up for any meaningful solar generation and this is during the period of least usage. I’d probably need a 3rd to be able to last a day, but considering the longest outage I’ve ever had was 12hrs, I should be good










2.) Net metering is absolutely critical. Sooooo much wasted potential 😭


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

I think during a power outage you'd tend to reduce consumption, which would then increase how long you could last.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

DocScott said:


> I think during a power outage you'd tend to reduce consumption, which would then increase how long you could last.


The battery drain is occurring between 6pm and 6am. It’s not like we’re doing much. My house pulls 2kW per hour just to keep the lights on, which adds up to 24kW for that 12 hour period. My AC pulls another 4kW per hour and runs for a total of an hour throughout the night for a complete total of 28kW. Two PWs have a total capacity of 27kW sooooooo.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> My house pulls 2kW per hour just to keep the lights on


This sounds high for a base load. Our base load varies between 0.5 and 0.7 kW. That includes 2 refrigerators, 2 radon pumps, and a number of computers. On top of that is the basement dehumidifier at 0.5 kW, cycling on and off. Lights are negligible these days as we have converted to LEDs.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Bigriver said:


> This sounds high for a base load.


It does.


shareef777 said:


> My house pulls 2kW per hour just to keep the lights on


Have you tried to track down sources of this base load? Do you still use incandescents or CFLs for night time lighting? My base load (before AC kicks on) is around 500W.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

We only use LED lighting in my home, but have A LOT of smart devices throughout. Practically every switch in my home is a smart switch, and have cameras throughout. There’s also a server/nas/network setup that runs 24/7.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Here's a screenshot that shows my average usage the past 24 hours. It shows how overnight from midnight till just before 6a usage is 1.2kW. That's only a solid 6 hours of when EVERYONE is asleep. My actual base from sundown to sunup is ~2kW, and that's base as in no high usage devices (EV charging, oven, dishwasher, laundry, etc). Just TVs and lights throughout the house.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

I'm surprised that your air conditioner doesn't kick on more often during the night. Mine appears to run about every 40 minutes.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

garsh said:


> I'm surprised that your air conditioner doesn't kick on more often during the night. Mine appears to run about every 40 minutes.
> 
> 
> View attachment 44504


We have an ecobee that bumps the temp up a couple degrees at night while we sleep. Bumps it back down in the morning just before we wake up. It’s also been relatively cooler so that the house is insulated enough to maintain the slightly higher temp overnight without the aid of the AC.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

garsh said:


> Mine appears to run about every 40 minutes.


What kind of thermostat do you have? I would love our a/c to cycle on/off more. We have a Nest with too large of a deadband that makes it get too cold before it shuts off, then too hot (actually it’s the moisture I notice) before it kicks on. During the day I’m manually nudging the setting throughout the day. At night, it is what it is. I’ve searched a bit online, and not found a good retail thermostat that lets me set the deadband, or even better, one with a default low deadband.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Bigriver said:


> What kind of thermostat do you have? I would love our a/c to cycle on/off more. We have a Nest with too large of a deadband that makes it get too cold before it shuts off, then too hot (actually it’s the moisture I notice) before it kicks on.


I have a Nest. I actually drop the temp by 2 degrees at night - I find it much easier to sleep in a cool room.

However, I find that the thermostat location isn't ideal for measuring temperature in the house. So I have a couple of these temperature sensors to supplement the system. You can then select one of those sensors to be the one used for deciding when to activate/deactivate your HVAC. I use a sensor in the master bedroom.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

So I asked for a status on the net metering application and was told it won’t be submitted until Tesla gets the SREC credit. Looking at my state SREC program, says it can take up to 6 months 😞


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

A full 30days in and everything SEEMS to be working as expected. Only thing I'm wondering about is that I had a 19.2kW system installed and the peak I've had was ~14.5kW. Additionally, these metrics seems to indicate a string isn't producing any power:


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Great timing, support came back and said that my system will product limited power until I have PTO. That sure sounds like a cop out to avoid further investigation. Why wouldn't the system provide full power to charge the batteries, THEN cut back.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> I had a 19.2kW system installed and the peak I've had was ~14.5kW.


I can’t speak for the numerical details of your system, but I wouldn’t expect your system to ever produce near the peak rate of 19.2 kW…. Especially during the summer unless you have a pretty flat roof, and if you have panels facing different directions, they will not all peak at the same time of day. The highest peak I’ve ever seen from my 12 kW system is 10.0 kW, and during the summer, anything over 9.5 kW is very good. Highest I ever get is in March, which is when my roof tilt is ideal. Interestingly September does not give high peaks, although that is again when my roof tilt is ideal. I’m not sure exactly why, but I postulate that the air is more muggy then (relative to March).

I don’t remember the source of my calculations, but this something I put together when we first got our system.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Bigriver said:


> I can’t speak for the numerical details of your system, but I wouldn’t expect your system to ever produce near the peak rate of 19.2 kW…. Especially during the summer unless you have a pretty flat roof, and if you have panels facing different directions, they will not all peak at the same time of day. The highest peak I’ve ever seen from my 12 kW system is 10.0 kW, and during the summer, anything over 9.5 kW is very good. Highest I ever get is in March, which is when my roof tilt is ideal. Interestingly September does not give high peaks, although that is again when my roof tilt is ideal. I’m not sure exactly why, but I postulate that the air is more muggy then (relative to March).
> 
> I don’t remember the source of my calculations, but this something I put together when we first got our system.
> View attachment 44554


So I looked into it further and I’m starting to understand the wiring schematic. I was told that I have 4 strings, but in actuality I have 6. Three to each inverter. So I have string A+B in parallel going to inverter 1 (hence similar power levels), along with C. Then I have A1, along with C1+D1 in parallel going to inverter 2.

This depicts how the strings were wired:








Not clear on which string represents A/B/C/A1/C1/D1 in the previous graph.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Looking at earlier in the day when the east facing panels will begin to generate power before the west facing panels I’m able to narrow down the string representation in the dashboard.


C1 = A1
C2A+C2B = C1+D1
C3 = C
C4+C5 = A+B


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

Bigriver said:


> I can’t speak for the numerical details of your system, but I wouldn’t expect your system to ever produce near the peak rate of 19.2 kW…. Especially during the summer unless you have a pretty flat roof, and if you have panels facing different directions, they will not all peak at the same time of day. The highest peak I’ve ever seen from my 12 kW system is 10.0 kW, and during the summer, anything over 9.5 kW is very good. Highest I ever get is in March, which is when my roof tilt is ideal. Interestingly September does not give high peaks, although that is again when my roof tilt is ideal. I’m not sure exactly why, but I postulate that the air is more muggy then (relative to March).


I'm in southern New York, so at about the same latitude as you and with a climate that's broadly similar.

I peak around April or May, with a much lower value in September than March.

For me, I know the main reason for the March vs. September difference: trees. In March, they're still bare. In September, they have as much leaf cover as they'll ever get, and my house is situated so that they shadow some of the panels some of the time.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

First 24hrs with zero draw from grid!!! I set both our vehicles to charge at 24A because of the 15.2kW limit the system caps at. If I set any higher total house draw surpasses the 15.2kW limit and it draws from the grid.

Even at 24A, I start charging ~8am when solar generation is ~8kW. That 8kW is enough for the vehicle AND house base with any excess going to the PW. By the time the AC kicks on early afternoon the system is producing 10kW+, the vehicles are fully charged, PW is charged, and Solar is curtailed. Good problem to have I suppose, but so much wasted potential 😞 










Wouldn’t be a big deal with net metering, but since that’ll be a while I’m now stuck with a “use it or lose it” in regards to my solar production.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Oof, had my car plugged in and got a notice that it's in storm watch mode so started pulling from grid to charge PW:










Interestingly, the PW won't charge more than 7.7kW when coming from grid.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

shareef777 said:


> So I asked for a status on the net metering application and was told it won’t be submitted until Tesla gets the SREC credit. Looking at my state SREC program, says it can take up to 6 months 😞


So still pending PTO and reached out to our state program regarding the holdup of the SREC credit. They said it's being worked on, I'm approved for the credit, but the processing of applications is on pause until September 1st. They went on to mention that the SREC credit isn't dependent on net metering, and that providers can't hold up net metering for SREC credits. They stated that I can file a formal complaint on Tesla. Figured let me ping Tesla with that bit of info.

Low and behold 🤦‍♂️:

Hi Shareef, this is Michael. I just spoke with our utility relations specialist that handles all IL projects. She informed me that normally we don't submit the final application to ComEd before the rebate is approved because the state could require changes and then we have to double submit to ComEd. That potential process can be extremely extended. Our interconnection team removed the internal hold we have on some projects, including your project, because the state's portal is currently down until 9/1. We will be able to submit for permission to operate (PTO) to ComEd. However, the solar loan agreement (contract) in your Tesla account states project completion is approximately 7 to 90 days after installation. We have literally several hundred applications to submit in the Chicago area and our team is working through them as quickly as possible. Thank you for your time and have a good day.


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

shareef777 said:


> So still pending PTO and reached out to our state program regarding the holdup of the SREC credit. They said it's being worked on, I'm approved for the credit, but the processing of applications is on pause until September 1st. They went on to mention that the SREC credit isn't dependent on net metering, and that providers can't hold up net metering for SREC credits. They stated that I can file a formal complaint on Tesla. Figured let me ping Tesla with that bit of info.
> 
> Low and behold 🤦‍♂️:
> 
> We have literally several hundred applications to submit in the Chicago area and our team is working through them as quickly as possible. Thank you for your time and have a good day.


 Uhhh, hire more staff??? WTF, O?


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

While I continue to wait for Tesla to do... nothing, I looked into my utilities' interconnection portal. It literally just needs three files uploaded to complete the process.

1.) Site inspection approval (I got a copy from my city and uploaded that myself)
2.) Photo of Battery Name Plate
3.) Photo of Inverter Nameplate

Not sure what those last two are referring to.


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

a name plate is similar to the plate / tag that has the item specs, name, mfgr, serial number, ...


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Thanks, submitted the labels and now I wait for my utility to confirm/approve. Site says ~10days.


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

shareef777 said:


> Thanks, submitted the labels and now I wait for my utility to confirm/approve. Site says ~10days.


 Time to chill the champagne!


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Still waiting on PTO, but had an interesting event just now. I had some UPS systems around my house for my office/NAS and never bothered taking them out. Good thing too, just had them all get triggered.

Happened right around 11:09am


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Hmm, wonder if this had anything to do with it:


Your project is currently in the Interconnection Completed status.

*Status Change Activity

Interconnection Completed*

Your Interconnection application has been completed and your system is ready to operate.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

I guess this is the end of the journey, and I’ve finally “arrived”. Will be interesting to see over the years how close to advertised production the system will provide. I’ve added a lot of automation to keep power use down as well as plan on a new, high efficiency AC system early next year to hopefully keep my power usage down to just under what my system can produce.


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

Party On, Wayne!!


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

So I updated my wireless config last night and everything reconnected fine except the gateway. Been spending all morning with no luck in getting it back up 🤦‍♂️

I can still see the system in the Tesla app (via cellular), but my internal network/server can't see it. Little upset that they never asked if I'd want it wired.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Opened a ticket with Tesla support, they couldn't figure it out and need to escalate. Still can't believe Tesla tells customers with a straight face that they'll update them in 2-3 WEEKS!


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Oh it gets worse, now my system won't produce ANY solar (very sunny outside) nor use the PW. My gateway is screwed up and support is absolutely useless. Guess it didn't take long for the issues to pop up


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Production issue is fixed (😓), but still can't connect to wifi. Had to reset from the TEG end (which the tech stated doesn't matter 🤦‍♂️). Startup process takes quiet a while.

TIL: pressing reset on the TEG doesn't only reset the TEG. For others that may run into this. Hold the reset button on the TEG for 10sec. After which it'll take all PWs offline (including the inverters). The PW LED will turn off and take a minute to turn back on (solid green). There still won't be any production and the PWs still can't be used to power the home in this state. Took another 2-3minutes before the PWs led started flashing. In this state the PWs were powering the home, but the inverters will still powered off. After another 5minutes the inverters started making a few click/clack sounds and started producing limited power. My assumption is that they're turning up one string at a time. Took a total of ~10min for everything to come back online.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

More gateway fun. Now I know we're not metric based in the US, but my high school math course is paying off right now because I'm fairly sure that the times below convert to ~1minute response times for a simple ping request.

64 bytes from 192.168.10.20: icmp_seq=48 ttl=64 time=70126.180 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.10.20: icmp_seq=49 ttl=64 time=69124.017 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.10.20: icmp_seq=50 ttl=64 time=68124.643 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.10.20: icmp_seq=51 ttl=64 time=67122.333 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.10.20: icmp_seq=52 ttl=64 time=66118.280 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.10.20: icmp_seq=73 ttl=64 time=45063.704 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.10.20: icmp_seq=74 ttl=64 time=44062.216 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.10.20: icmp_seq=75 ttl=64 time=43058.298 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.10.20: icmp_seq=76 ttl=64 time=42056.214 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.10.20: icmp_seq=77 ttl=64 time=41051.155 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.10.20: icmp_seq=98 ttl=64 time=19975.425 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.10.20: icmp_seq=99 ttl=64 time=18970.339 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.10.20: icmp_seq=100 ttl=64 time=17965.130 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.10.20: icmp_seq=101 ttl=64 time=16964.218 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.10.20: icmp_seq=102 ttl=64 time=15959.860 ms

Seem to be adding up to the wifi module within the TEG as failing. Sure hope that part is serviceable otherwise they'll have to replace the whole thing, and that'd likely be a few hour outage to my home as it won't be easy to pull all the large gauge wiring out of an existing setup.


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

My experience with inverters from power off or reset is they take 5 minutes to sync the AC curves and sample the voltage. May be part of the code but I've never had a power-cycled inverter come on in less than five (5) minutes.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Klaus-rf said:


> My experience with inverters from power off or reset is they take 5 minutes to sync the AC curves and sample the voltage. May be part of the code but I've never had a power-cycled inverter come on in less than five (5) minutes.


Same here. Took a solid 10min for everything to come back online. As a test I setup an open SSID and was able to successfully connect. For some reason it won't connect to any SSID that requires a password. Could be tied to the error I saw on the TEG console:


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

So I did eventually get it to connect to a password protected SSID, but had to change the SSID name. My guess is there's a bug with caching previously connected SSIDs.

So I'm ~3mo into my solar purchase and I've already saved ~$850 on my utilities. Mind you that's with 2.5mo WITHOUT PTO so there was a good chunk of lost solar generation. I get that the summer months will have a larger chunk of my ROI, but this is a good start. Looking forward to seeing what can be produced next year.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

First full month with PTO is in the books and my bill is $13.83 with a net credit of 133kWh. Regular bill would have been ~$200. Curious to see how low the system will generate in the latter months of the year. Unfortunately, I’m likely going to have to leverage the grid a lot more in the coming months as we barely broke even this month.

Also, now that net metering is in full effect I updated my PW settings to reserve 80% for backup power. No point in daily cycling of the battery and would guarantee I’d last overnight if power were lost later into the night.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

So had my first outage. Lasted about 10min. Interestingly none of the UPS systems in my house worked. They all remained on battery power during the outage. Read online that I need Tesla to change my PW config to output 62.5Hz (instead of their standard 65Hz). Well documented here:

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/Powerwall/comments/weicpj

Opened a chat, explained it (along with providing the above link) and now I wait 15-20 days just to tweak that one setting 🤦‍♂️ ...

To make matters worse, I'm not even sure if it was truly a utility outage or an issue with my system. Weather is super clear, no storm/winds, nothing that would cause an outage. Logged into my utility provider's app during the outage and they reported no outage. Reached out to neighbors, and no response from any of them yet. Checked meter outside and it was still turned on.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

We got rid of our UPS when we got our Powerwalls. Is there some value they add that I’m not thinking of?


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Bigriver said:


> We got rid of our UPS when we got our Powerwalls. Is there some value they add that I’m not thinking of?


Kept them primarily because the systems that are plugged in can communicate with them and safely shutdown if the battery gets too low. Running directly off PWs would mean I have to manually intervene if the batteries get low. Rare, I know, but I’ve already invested in them so might as well use them. Probably recycle them after a few years when the batteries of the UPS are depleted.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

So opened another chat with Tesla support for a status update on the PW frequency change request. Turns out they made the change a while ago, but never notified me 🤦‍♂️. They didn't even update the ticket as it's still showing up in the app. Switched house over to off-grid and sure enough, all my UPS devices hummed along just fine. I'm glad they got it done, but I'm sooooo disheartened that the simple lack of communication is pushing people away from going with Tesla for solar (or more likely going with solar all-together) 😔


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

6mo in and just past winter solstice. Not gonna lie, didn't think the production would get this bad in winter. Hitting peaks of 100kWh days (without PTO) in summer, I'd assumed winter would be half, but dismayed to find that it produces ~10% of summer days. One of the big factors is that I have a chimney on the roof that impacts production due to the angle of the sun in the winter. Though can't complain as I've produced 9MWh so far (half the time without PTO) so it seems to be on-track to meet the estimated production numbers (~20MWh annually).


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