# Low speed noise maker will be required in EVs



## m3_4_wifey

I've seen a couple of videos about the BMW i8 and the fact that it makes imitation engine noise when you step on the pedal. The i8 doesn't let you turn the sound off, and seems like an easy software fix unless they are trying to mask the real sound. I definitely would want the software feature to be able to turn it off, but I could see engine noise being kind of fun to play with like the Tom Tom having different voices for turn by turn directions. One more way for people to individualize their car, and perhaps there's a usefulness for the passengers to know that you just stepped hard on the accelerator or come off the pedal for regen.
If Tesla doesn't have the time to develop the sound recordings themselves, maybe the software could be an open platform and open it up to 3rd parties to do the work.
I didn't setup a poll, but what do you think the Model 3 should sound like if it did make noise?

Here's a link to Bjorn test driving the i8.


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## m3_4_wifey

Might have to go back and watch the move "The Dilemma" again.


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## TrevP

Tesla won't be doing "car sounds" in their cars. They don't mention it but noise pollution is another reason why they're doing EVs.


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## garsh

One of the first modifications I made to my Leaf was to add a button to turn off that Vehicle Sound for Pedestrians.
It's annoying.


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## KirbyTurbo

garsh said:


> One of the first modifications I made to my Leaf was to add a button to turn off that Vehicle Sound for Pedestrians.
> It's annoying.


Very useful in a neighborhood with a blind person.


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## garsh

But annoying when you'd like to quietly leave the house/neighborhood at 5am.


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## m3_4_wifey

TrevP said:


> Tesla won't be doing "car sounds" in their cars. They don't mention it but noise pollution is another reason why they're doing EVs.


Except for blind people, I agree that ICE's are too much noise pollution. I was talking about sound that would be produced by the cars speakers for the interior cabin.


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## MelindaV

no artificial noise inside or out please. that is what the horn is for if a warning to a physically impaired person (or someone not paying attention) is needed.
Living in a very pedestrian/bike friendly region, drivers are expected to be looking for people, able-bodied or with physical impairments and the responsibility for not running them down is on the driver, regardless if someone were to step off a curb in front of a car. 

Many ICE cars that are running properly have nearly no engine noise at neighborhood speeds. One of my ICE cars you can really only hear idling when the engine fan is on. Before it heats up and kicks the fan on, it is silent. Same moving at sub 30MPH.


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## sandange

I was hoping for an optional sound of a horse draw carriage - (Horses hooves clip clop) for cruising down main street on a Saturday night
LOL


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## garsh

sandange said:


> I was hoping for an optional sound of a horse draw carriage - (Horses hooves clip clop) for cruising down main street on a Saturday night
> LOL


Just play this through your car's stereo as you drive by with the windows down:


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## Badback

The entire universe is a dangerous place for everyone, we can't make anything truly safe for blind people anymore than we can for sighted people.


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## Kizzy

The sound of accessibility:






And that all glass roof…


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## chopr147

I don't get it. Make a futuristic electric car but make it sound like the past


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## Christian Cerceau

m3_4_wifey said:


> I've seen a couple of videos about the BMW i8 and the fact that it makes imitation engine noise when you step on the pedal. The i8 doesn't let you turn the sound off, and seems like an easy software fix unless they are trying to mask the real sound. I definitely would want the software feature to be able to turn it off, but I could see engine noise being kind of fun to play with like the Tom Tom having different voices for turn by turn directions. One more way for people to individualize their car, and perhaps there's a usefulness for the passengers to know that you just stepped hard on the accelerator or come off the pedal for regen.
> If Tesla doesn't have the time to develop the sound recordings themselves, maybe the software could be an open platform and open it up to 3rd parties to do the work.
> I didn't setup a poll, but what do you think the Model 3 should sound like if it did make noise?
> 
> Here's a link to Bjorn test driving the i8.


I'll take a Ferrari V8 [non turbo] sound, but with a switch so I can use it when nobody is around !


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## TrevP

This is getting silly.

I Enjoy the Silence of a Tesla


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## garsh

Horse hooves & Jetson's car are silly, but real life is just sad:
http://jalopnik.com/5973177/this-is...en-engine-sounds-arent-piped-in-by-a-computer


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## JWardell

All BMWs produce fake engine sounds now, and I'm sure many other cars as well. It's win-win from the point of view of the manufacturer; you can make an efficient engine and the drivers can still get that visceral performance feeling, for zero extra cost. God knows I miss the sound of the supercharger in my last car, performance of modern turbos be damned. 

But it has no place in an electric car, especially one that is trying to change the world and do things differently.
Now, I wouldn't mind it as an optional easter egg, especially with selectable soundtracks like jetsons etc (really on any car), but the sheer silence is another big selling point of a fully electric car.


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## chopr147

I agree, as an option it can be cool. Does the driver have an option in an i8 to shut that off? It's just weird


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## TrevP

chopr147 said:


> I agree, as an option it can be cool. Does the driver have an option in an i8 to shut that off? It's just weird


You can't disable it but the sound comes on when the gas engine starts. It's only a 3 cylinder engine so they made it sound like a V8. It's quite convincing but disingenuous if you ask me.


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## Topher

The opinion of the blind people I know, is that they would prefer no artificial noises from cars. In fact, they would prefer less noise from all cars. They need to form a complete picture of all things in their environment, so don't want one thing to drown out all the others. Other blind people's opinions may vary.

Thank you kindly.

p.s. a gentler horn might be a good idea.


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## Christian Cerceau

TrevP said:


> This is getting silly.
> 
> I Enjoy the Silence of a Tesla


Trev, don't take me too seriously ! I enjoy the silence too, but once in a while I like turning the music up.
And what better music than a Ferrari, when most cars sound like sewing machines... that's why the Model 3 will live along side
a 93 Miata, red of course. Not a Ferrari but that's all I could afford !


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## chopr147

I just don't get it! I can be dense at times  but I love the quiet acceleration and BMW did not trust their customers to know the difference I guess.


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## m3_4_wifey

Appreciate the comments everyone. Personally, I agree that 99.9% of the time the quieter the car the better, and this would be a 007 submarine car type feature. However, I imagine there are people that "customize" their vehicle in a way like this. Why else are there still load motorcycles with plenty of vibration. If the EV industry doesn't understand those people, they may miss out on future sales.
The car is just a large iphone on wheels. Not sure if Tesla will move towards an open platform for their entertainment display, but I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for third party developers to come up with some options.


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## Michael Benson

Salem tuned a Model S and included artificial sound. Search online for Saleen GTX. I couldn't include the URL in my post, sorry.


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## MelindaV

The US Department of Transportation is moving toward requiring EVs (and hybrids) to produce a noise when at low speed (about 19mph and slower). September 2019 all EV/hybrids are to be in compliance and half by September 2018.

_"Under the new rule, all hybrid and electric light vehicles with four wheels and a gross vehicle weight rating of 10,000 pounds or less will be required to make audible noise when traveling in reverse or forward at speeds up to 30 kilometers per hour (about 19 miles per hour). _
_Manufacturers have until Sept. 1, 2019, to equip all new hybrid and electric vehicles with sounds that meet the new federal safety standard. Half of new hybrid and electric vehicles must be in compliance one year before the final deadline."_​
Personally, 19mph sounds (no pun intended) pretty fast for the purposes of warning vision impaired pedestrians... my commute to/from work is 13 miles. This morning, over the 10 miles that I am on the interstate freeway, my average speed was 7mph. On the way home 13mph.
My house is in a neighborhood with narrow streets with a couple corners and cars parked on both sides, so I generally am going about 10-15mph max.
I really don't want to hear some beeping/buzzing/whatevering all the time.

In Elon fashion, if it does indeed become required, I hope Tesla's noise is awesome compared to the other EVs. Maybe it can be a 'teslateslateslatesla' whisper


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## Charlie W

MelindaV said:


> Maybe it can be a 'teslateslateslatesla' whisper


that would ... umm ... sound so cool!


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## AEDennis

I want downloadable noises. Perhaps one that sounds like an old Volkswagen Beetle.


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## Michael Russo

Wonder when something like that will be required in Europe too... Did anybody 'hear' anything about current or planned legislations ?


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## Michael Russo

AEDennis said:


> I want downloadable noises. Perhaps one that sounds like an old Volkswagen Beetle.


How about 'the sound of silence...' (for those of you who remember good ole' Paul & Al...!)


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## victor

Michael Russo said:


> How about 'the sound of silence...' (for those of you who remember good ole' Paul & Al...!)


Oh, I 'member 

And watch this, Michael. Pretty amazing.


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## garsh

Jetsons car. It's the only sane choice, really.


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## Michael Russo

victor said:


> Oh, I 'member
> 
> And watch this, Michael. Pretty amazing.


Wow, cool, never heard Paul Simon's part this clearly be4!
Anyways, don't mean to take this much further off topic but can't help but imagine the first part of the song as background track to a Model ≡ commercial to be (though will they ever need one? ) with the car driving though beautiful scenic places... 
Have a nice day!


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## velnosju

I'll be honest, I think it is completely unnecessary. Cars are already extremely quiet. My car is a V6 and you can barely hear it going down the road. When at low speeds, all you hear is tires. Adding noise pollution will not make anyone any safer. I will do everything in my power to undo whatever sound is implemented if this is on my Model 3. I'm hoping the first batch of Model 3 deliveries will not have this silly thing... Having my car make a completely unnecessary noise makes me pretty upset actually. We don't require scooters, bikes, skaters, or anything else make noise, why this. Seems like a push to the USDOT by the big automakers to be honest.


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## Badback

All bicycles should come equipped with playing cards and clothes pin to alert blind pedestrians.


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## Gabzqc

As Elon mentioned in a earnings call in 2013, he wanted a correct volume played in the direction the hazard was spotted, rather than blaring out all the time, causing noise pollution


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## Dan Detweiler

At slow speeds all people are hearing is road noise anyway. Completely useless legislation in my opinion...aka the US Government at its finest. Oh, sorry no political posts...my bad.

Dan


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## Paul Spiers

Is this legislation based on a noise study or comparison between a variety of ICE and EV's. What actual evidence or statistical data set are they basing their decisions on? I think that a lot of ICE cars are quiet enough to require the same noise maker, so why isn't this being applied based on actual noise levels as opposed to it's an EV. I haven't read this legislation, so if anybody has and my assertions are wrong, please let me know.


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## Badback

Paul Spiers said:


> Is this legislation based on a noise study or comparison between a variety of ICE and EV's. What actual evidence or statistical data set are they basing their decisions on? I think that a lot of ICE cars are quiet enough to require the same noise maker, so why isn't this being applied based on actual noise levels as opposed to it's an EV. I haven't read this legislation, so if anybody has and my assertions are wrong, please let me know.


It would be wildly optimistic to expect government regulations to be based on scientific evidence or rational thought.


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## Dan Detweiler

Just personal opinion here, but the engine sound on the i8 has to be the stupidest thing I have ever seen.

...just sayin'

Dan


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## Michael Russo

Dan Detweiler said:


> Just personal opinion here, but the engine sound on the i8 has to be the stupidest thing I have ever seen.
> 
> ...just sayin'
> 
> Dan


LOL... in all fairness, I did enjoy the test drive, pushing it to the electronically controlled 250 km/h (150+ mph) on the highway though (not in Germany, oops... )... Worse was the comfort for my wife on the back bench (felt like a wooden plank!) as the birthday girl (our 17yr old...) sat on the passenger seat... unpractical...


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## Dan Detweiler

Michael Russo said:


> LOL... in all fairness, I did enjoy the test drive, pushing it to the electronically controlled 250 km/h (150+ mph) on the highway though (not in Germany, oops... )... Worse was the comfort for my wife on the back bench (felt like a wooden plank!) as the birthday girl (our 17yr old...) sat on the passenger seat... unpractical...


Agreed. It apears to be a great car. Good looks, good performance, etc. Why, in God's name, put a ridiculous fake "vroom,vroom" on it? Who are they trying to impress?

Again, just my opinion. There must be people out there that like it. I just can't, for the life of me, see why.

Dan


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## Red Sage

Dan Detweiler said:


> Just personal opinion here, but the engine sound on the i8 has to be the stupidest thing I have ever seen.


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## Watts4me

Like stated before,I will do what I can to muffle this sound if it's too annoying. Make it removable in case it's a requirement to get my state inspection.


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## Shogun

Old video, but if I had to have something making noise on my 3, this isn't horrible...


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## Dan Detweiler

I have nothing to back this up but I would be VERY surprised if ANY vehicle that has a muffler short of a Harley Davidson or some supped up hotrod under about 20 mph makes most of its sound from road noise, not engine noise.

This seems like nothing more than the ICE car lobbies trying to make it as hard (or as expensive) as they can for electic vehicles and creating fear where there is none.

Dan


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## Red Sage

Shogun said:


> Old video, but if I had to have something making noise on my 3, this isn't horrible...


I understand why they did it. I just dund like it. This particular application, which attempts to capture all the most pleasant harmonic chords of ICE driving is not the most objectionable, but still incorrect. In my opinion. I'm pretty sure the AUDI e-tron was delayed multiple times as Tesla gained popularity, then was announced to be built-to-order only, then went away for good, except for an *A3 e-tron hybrid plug-in*.


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## Michael Russo

Red Sage said:


> I understand why they did it. I just dund like it. This particular application, which attempts to capture all the most pleasant harmonic chords of ICE driving is not the most objectionable, but still incorrect. In my opinion. I'm pretty sure the AUDI e-tron was delayed multiple times as Tesla gained popularity, then was announced to be built-to-order only, then went away for good, except for an *A3 e-tron hybrid plug-in*.


Kinda sounds like these driverless commuter trains connecting airport terminals... 
@Red Sage , on expected Audi e-tron models, check out #4 & 5 on the list of the upcoming 10 EVs within the next three published by Elektrek at 5:46 EST today... Am also a bit confused with in-out-in mode... 
Yet it is almost unthinkable VAG would not have any Audi BEVs at some point, next to VW, Seat (also mentioned)... not to mention Porsche...


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## Mike

MelindaV said:


> The US Department of Transportation is moving toward requiring EVs (and hybrids) to produce a noise when at low speed (about 19mph and slower). September 2019 all EV/hybrids are to be in compliance and half by September 2018.
> 
> _"Under the new rule, all hybrid and electric light vehicles with four wheels and a gross vehicle weight rating of 10,000 pounds or less will be required to make audible noise when traveling in reverse or forward at speeds up to 30 kilometers per hour (about 19 miles per hour). _
> _Manufacturers have until Sept. 1, 2019, to equip all new hybrid and electric vehicles with sounds that meet the new federal safety standard. Half of new hybrid and electric vehicles must be in compliance one year before the final deadline."_​
> Personally, 19mph sounds (no pun intended) pretty fast for the purposes of warning vision impaired pedestrians... my commute to/from work is 13 miles. This morning, over the 10 miles that I am on the interstate freeway, my average speed was 7mph. On the way home 13mph.
> My house is in a neighborhood with narrow streets with a couple corners and cars parked on both sides, so I generally am going about 10-15mph max.
> I really don't want to hear some beeping/buzzing/whatevering all the time.
> 
> In Elon fashion, if it does indeed become required, I hope Tesla's noise is awesome compared to the other EVs. Maybe it can be a 'teslateslateslatesla' whisper


IIRC, there is also a mandate for EVs in Canada to have the same "noise at low speed" by summer of 2018.

If so, this is the noise I hope Tesla develops for the Model 3 (start at 3:53 of this 11:47 video):


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## Badback

Mike said:


> IIRC, there is also a mandate for EVs in Canada to have the same "noise at low speed" by summer of 2018.
> 
> If so, this is the noise I hope Tesla develops for the Model 3 (start at 3:53 of this 11:47 video):


Wouldn't a playing card and a clothes pin get you the same sound?


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## Mike

Badback said:


> Wouldn't a playing card and a clothes pin get you the same sound?


All kidding aside, even the pro driver putting this car thru it's paces in the last quarter of the video says it sounds like a jet turbine. 
If the car has to emit a noise, I really hope it is cool like this sounded (to me, anyway).


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## Gabzqc

Did we hear any "sound" from the Model 3 at launch party for low speeds? I dont think so...


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## JWardell

I live next to a busy road and I get to hear the noise of loud engines all day (and night). [Most] cars have become significantly quieter over the last few decades, but I truly can't wait for the upcoming peace and freedom from noise pollution coming once cars (and more importantly trucks) are electrified.

Adding noise for no good reason is a bad idea.

Oh, right, so people staring at their phones while crossing the street don't walk into them.
Well, more and more cars have autopilot-like crash avoidance. I say require the car to have the technology to prevent the accident, don't require some stupid bandaid that will make our ears bleed.


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## Rich Nuth

No matter what anybody wants (and I really like the silent operation of an electric car), the law states that all electric vehicles produced after some time in 2019 will have to have some sort of noise when driving below some fixed speed. The actual sound is up to the manufacturer, but no sound is not an option.


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## chopr147

JWardell said:


> I live next to a busy road and I get to hear the noise of loud engines all day (and night). [Most] cars have become significantly quieter over the last few decades, but I truly can't wait for the upcoming peace and freedom from noise pollution coming once cars (and more importantly trucks) are electrified.
> 
> Adding noise for no good reason is a bad idea.
> 
> Oh, right, so people staring at their phones while crossing the street don't walk into them.
> Well, more and more cars have autopilot-like crash avoidance. I say require the car to have the technology to prevent the accident, don't require some stupid bandaid that will make our ears bleed.


Totally agree with you here! This is one of those times when politicians feel a need to do "something" and do it with zero knowledge of the issue. Can you imagine the noise on your morning commute in traffic and everyone has an EV? We would have all sorts of nonsensical noise killing the EV experience. 
I was walking in a mall parking lot just yesterday and did not hear the Cadillac coming up behind me. It was an ICE! Today's cars are so quiet now that we have perfected the ICE engine. My wife's Lexus has noise cancelling material under the hood, plastic covers over the engine and a really quiet motor. 
Has there been an EV running over pedestrian problem? I have not heard of one instance of this.


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## scmaxwell99

I was just thinking about this after the model 3 reveal. This feature would really be beneficial for the blind. I know we joke about the person who has their face buried in their phone and are crossing the street., but I think that if it only emits a noise at 15mph or less. This would help in city traffic or when your going from a stop light and accelerating.


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## SSonnentag

I pulled the noise maker fuse in my Volt. Silence is golden.


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## garsh

scmaxwell99 said:


> I was just thinking about this after the model 3 reveal. This feature would really be beneficial for the blind.


No, it really won't. There are plenty of very quiet combustion vehicles, and the blind have no problems avoiding them.


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## JWardell

scmaxwell99 said:


> I was just thinking about this after the model 3 reveal. This feature would really be beneficial for the blind. I know we joke about the person who has their face buried in their phone and are crossing the street., but I think that if it only emits a noise at 15mph or less. This would help in city traffic or when your going from a stop light and accelerating.


 Most of the time around here, on side streets or the highway, all traffic is below 15mph for 4-5 hours a day during rush hours. I blind person already can't here most quiet ice cars. Fix the problem properly with pedestrian accident avoidance (or better yet, re-test and better train the humans driving!)


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## garsh

JWardell said:


> (or better yet, re-test and better train the humans driving!)


Or, replace the human drivers with computers.


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## chopr147

The scene: I'm blind and "looking" to cross the street. I am having trouble hearing the cars due to some crazy Starwars noise coming from an EV.


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## Tesla Newbie

I think the mandated noise is silly and counterproductive, but I do wonder about a second horn with a more delicate/harmonious sound for warning pedestrians and the guy focused on his cell phone when the traffic light changes. That would be useful for EV's/ICE's or whatever's coming down the line. I'm imagining that owners would be able to toggle through different tunes for this purpose, much in the same way we manage our cellphone ring and notification tones.


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## SSonnentag

Tesla Newbie said:


> I think the mandated noise is silly and counterproductive, but I do wonder about a second horn with a more delicate/harmonious sound for warning pedestrians and the guy focused on his cell phone when the traffic light changes. That would be useful for EV's/ICE's or whatever's coming down the line. I'm imagining that owners would be able to toggle through different tunes for this purpose, much in the same way we manage our cellphone ring and notification tones.


I agree with the benefits of an on-demand pedestrian warning sound. The gen 1 Volt has that and it works well. A simple speaker would be great do that various non-scary sounds could be used as warnings or even greetings.


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## PNWmisty

Badback said:


> The entire universe is a dangerous place for everyone, we can't make anything truly safe for blind people anymore than we can for sighted people.


Blind people have a heightened sense of hearing. I think it makes sense for very quiet cars (electric or not) to have soft directional sounds in the front and back bumpers that are automatically activated when reversing and moving forward at low speeds. It would not be audible inside the vehicle and could be as simple as a sound like a bicycle's freewheel that clicks at a rate proportional to speed. Especially important in reverse.


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## Jakesthree

If "noise maker" laws are enacted they must be applied to all vehicles depending on the actual sounds they make. If they are targeted at EV's only then I'm forced to think that the legislators are either woefully ignorant hypocrites or in bed with fossil car makers.


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## MelindaV

my issue with this is it is (will be) mandatory when standing still and up to 19 mph. to me, 19mph not low speed. low is under 10mph. at 19, tires make more noise on pavement than this noise maker likely will. and when stopped, well, the car is not moving, so you are not likely to run some unsuspecting blind person over.

there's also this quote from insideEVs article a while back:
"It is interesting to note that NHSTA studies indicate low speed accidents are 18% more likely in hybrid/electric vehicles than traditional autos, but that *the addition of a warning sound is not likely to decrease actual pedestrian fatalities*, as historical data shows that *more fatal accidents occur with traditional petrol vehicles* than plug-ins and hybrids"​then goes on to say 67% of pedestrian fatalities are involving speeds over 35MPH, and ped fatalities involving a hybrid or EV is .85/100,000 vs ICE 1.57/100,000 in 2008 (while it does not say specifically if those rates are looking just at 100,000 vehicles within their own type or the overall mix)


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## KennethK

Something Elon alluded to was, since the vehicle can (will eventually) identify pedestrians, a noise can be directed in their location and only when there is a pedestrian.


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## MelindaV

KennethK said:


> Something Elon alluded to was, since the vehicle can (will eventually) identify pedestrians, a noise can be directed in their location and only when there is a pedestrian.


the NHTSA regulation requires the noise to be constant though. so while creeping along in stop and go freeway traffic, or in a parking lot it should make no difference, according to NHTSA


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## PNWmisty

MelindaV said:


> there's also this quote from article a while back:
> "It is interesting to note that NHSTA studies indicate low speed accidents are 18% more likely in hybrid/electric vehicles than traditional autos, but that *the addition of a warning sound is not likely to decrease actual pedestrian fatalities*, as historical data shows that *more fatal accidents occur with traditional petrol vehicles* than plug-ins and hybrids"​then goes on to say 67% of pedestrian fatalities are involving speeds over 35MPH, and ped fatalities involving a hybrid or EV is .85/100,000 vs ICE 1.57/100,000 in 2008 (while it does not say specifically if those rates are looking just at 100,000 vehicles within their own type or the overall mix)


No doubt any regulations will need to be adjusted based upon the best available science. Super quiet cars are a new phenomenon and it takes time to collect and parse data to make sure the rules make good sense as new data is taken into account. But it doesn't make a lot of sense to base rules only on fatality data (as the quote above focusses on). The goal is to prevent accidents in general, not just fatalities. Obviously, fatalities are generally a higher speed scenario in which sound will be less useful.

I do think that a cutoff around 15-19 mph makes sense. Please consider that I'm imagining a soft directional sound that would be inaudible inside the cabin at those speeds. I would be opposed to any rules that tried to err heavily on the side of safety by requiring volumes loud enough for hard of hearing people or to be effective at high ambient noise levels. Any sounds should be pleasant and just loud enough for someone with normal hearing to be made aware of a moving vehicle in close proximity in a moderately quiet environment. In loud environments people naturally exercise more caution because they know they can't hear approaching vehicles. The dangerous combo is quiet, peaceful environment with a nearly silent vehicle.


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## Badback

If we are going back to the 19th century, maybe the sound should be the clip clop of horse hooves.


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## Rich M

I'd like the sound of someone clearing their throat in an attention-getting fashion.
*ahem* *ahem* *ahem* *ahem* *ahem* *ahem* *ahem* *ahem*


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## Topher

scmaxwell99 said:


> This feature would really be beneficial for the blind.


Perhaps. But the blind people I know are all opposed to the feature. They would prefer as few things masking the sounds of their surroundings as possible.



PNWmisty said:


> Blind people have a heightened sense of hearing.


No, they really don't. And most of them hate that myth.

Thank you kindly.


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## PNWmisty

Topher said:


> Perhaps. But the blind people I know are all opposed to the feature. They would prefer as few things masking the sounds of their surroundings as possible.


I'm not even blind and I don't like things masking the sounds of my surroundings because I feel more comfortable when I can hear what's going on around me. And a 3600 lb. BEV moving over 2 mph is definitely something I would want to know about.



> No, they really don't. And most of them hate that myth.
> 
> Thank you kindly.


Why would a blind person be more of an expert on the development of the average sighted persons hearing than science? I prefer peer reviewed science over hearsay:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/superpowers-for-the-blind-and-deaf/
https://www.livescience.com/58373-blindness-heightened-senses.html

Not only do blind people rely on their remaining senses more than sighted people, but this extra focus causes the brain to adapt and remap for the purpose. It's really wonderful how adaptive the human organism is. Every single blind person I've become friends with has acknowledged how their sense of hearing had developed.


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## SolarPro

I live near one of the main entrances to the freeway with backed up traffic nearly all day. Hearing a bunch of weird noises would probably not be great. Maybe they could just make them all communicate together and sing in harmony.


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## PNWmisty

Tyler Nelson said:


> I live near one of the main entrances to the freeway with backed up traffic nearly all day. Hearing a bunch of weird noises would probably not be great. Maybe they could just make them all communicate together and sing in harmony.


Ha! Like crickets! I like it!

Some people assume these will be loud sounds. I think it just needs to be enough that it's not totally silent in a quiet setting.


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## garsh

PNWmisty said:


> Some people assume these will be loud sounds. I think it just needs to be enough that it's not totally silent in a quiet setting.


Tires crunching on asphalt is loud enough.


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## PNWmisty

garsh said:


> Tires crunching on asphalt is loud enough.


You're recommending walnut shell dispensers be installed in front of the front tires and behind the rear tires?

But who will clean up all the crunched walnut shells?


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## JWardell

There are plenty of ICE cars now that are just as quiet as EVs. These regulations are pure ignorance. If anything, they should require X db of sound from Y meters under Z kph for all vehicles, unless they have active intelligence to do so only when pedestrians are present.


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## Gabzqc

KennethK said:


> Something Elon alluded to was, since the vehicle can (will eventually) identify pedestrians, a noise can be directed in their location and only when there is a pedestrian.


Your reminding me of this makes me wonder if something special is installed in the Model 3 already for just this purpose...

Also, I sit firmly on the side of the fence that tyres make enough noise and the driver (or autopilot) should be looking where they are driving!


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## Jean-Pierre Malef

Interesting, everyone mentions the blind. 
Ok, but what do we do for the deaf? 
And for this growing number of pedestrians crossing the street while watching their phone?


----------



## SSonnentag

Jean-Pierre Malef said:


> Interesting, everyone mentions the blind.
> Ok, but what do we do for the deaf?
> And for this growing number of pedestrians crossing the street while watching their phone?


Cattle catchers.


----------



## Roderick80

Make the sound maker this. Be prepared to wait while everyone in the crosswalk falls into formation and boogies...


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## TCWillis

I know this annoys all of you (and as a future EV owner will likely annoy me) but I will say I've had several close calls in my parking garage all stemming from my inability to hear the car coming. My garage is old, cramped, and has a lot of blind corners. The builders didn't give much thought to Pedestrians and how to manage them so you have to walk in the same space as the cars drive to get to your vehicle. There's also at least 2 Teslas and a couple other EV's. When the Model S zips around the corner it scares the crap out of me every time. It's so quiet you don't really hear it coming. 

Also, being in downtown Austin, I'm resonably sure I'm surrounded by the countries least aware pedestrians. Imagine a commute where everyone jaywalks while drunk and looking on their phone and that's what it is like to drive home on 6th street.


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## Badback

Jean-Pierre Malef said:


> Interesting, everyone mentions the blind.
> Ok, but what do we do for the deaf?
> And for this growing number of pedestrians crossing the street while watching their phone?


What do we do for the stupid?


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## Model34mePlease

Badback said:


> What do we do for the stupid?


Evolution in action?


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## SSonnentag

We have smart cars for that.


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## MelindaV

I assume it's my NW bias, since the two states I split my time between both have heavily enforced laws where the driver is required to stop for pedestrians (in a crosswalk or not) whenever one step off a curb, and not continue driving until they are fully across the street. 
So curious what the rest of you do when someone walks out into the street. Lay on your horn and assume they will retreat before they get blood on your hood?


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## ahagge

Badback said:


> What do we do for the stupid?


Two words: Darwin Awards.


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## Tesla Newbie

MelindaV said:


> . . . So curious what the rest of you do when someone walks out into the street. Lay on your horn and assume they will retreat before they get blood on your hood?


Yeah, that's pretty much it.


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## Pascal Hureau

That's a matter of education and prevention. Laws may evolve at anytime but I cannot resist to share with you this warning message our Swiss friends could see on TV :


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## Gizmo

Jean-Pierre Malef said:


> Interesting, everyone mentions the blind.
> Ok, but what do we do for the deaf?



The deaf are already no doubt already using their other senses more .... looking out for a danger you and I may hear.



Jean-Pierre Malef said:


> And for this growing number of pedestrians crossing the street while watching their phone?


They are already effectively blind... as they are not looking, so anything that makes someone aware that a car is approaching is a good thing right?

Ideally this will take the form of _common sense_, which is a funny name as it appears to be anything BUT common!
Failing that then ensure a vehicle that is travelling towards them is NOT silent, if those two fail then we always have Darwin...:walking:  :car:


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## garsh

Gizmo said:


> They are already effectively blind...


They are effectively deaf as well.


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## Gizmo

Only if they have headphones on, sound your horn and they _should_ look up, if they are deaf then they will not.


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## garsh

Gizmo said:


> Only if they have headphones on, sound your horn and they _should_ look up,


Agreed. No "vehicle sound for pedestrians" is going to help. You just need to lay on the horn to make them look up.


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## Badback

Gizmo said:


> The deaf are already no doubt already using their other senses more .... looking out for a danger you and I may hear.
> 
> 
> They are already effectively blind... as they are not looking, so anything that makes someone aware that a car is approaching is a good thing right?
> 
> Ideally this will take the form of _common sense_, which is a funny name as it appears to be anything BUT common!
> Failing that then ensure a vehicle that is travelling towards them is NOT silent, if those two fail then we always have Darwin...:walking:  :car:


I'm putting my money on Darwin.


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## chopr147

Tyler Nelson said:


> I live near one of the main entrances to the freeway with backed up traffic nearly all day. Hearing a bunch of weird noises would probably not be great. Maybe they could just make them all communicate together and sing in harmony.


Another point against! Residential areas not just parking lots. Each time I turn into my driveway my neighbors will have to hear my arrival, with some annoying beep,chirp ,horse clopper, or whatever some legislator decides is good enough? And I keep some late hours. My neighbor is NOT going to be happy 

Add the fact that at a slow crawl my wife's Lexus is just about as quiet as myTesla


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## chopr147

MelindaV said:


> So curious what the rest of you do when someone walks out into the street. Lay on your horn and assume they will retreat before they get blood on your hood?


Sums it up pretty well 
NYC has the same laws of course it's just that nobody pays attention to those lame laws 
Feels like anarchy at times. I have had my hood slapped for being an inch into the crosswalk


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## Guest

There are two scenarios with vehicle-human interactions
At places where humans should not be; and
places where people can and do walk.

In case of the first one, horn. No pleases, no excuse me, just aggressive WTF!
In case of the second one, car, in any way, must drive slowly, ICE or not.

There are some on-the-edge cases, like parking lots.
It's ok for a person to walk there. Though it is not ok to walk in the middle of everything nor
is it ok to turn in random direction without indication (same as vehicles turning without indication).
People/pedestrians indicate with their body not with blinkers. If they don't, I act like I act with
drivers, who do not indicate. Horn or full beams. It's ok that children do mistakes more.
Drivers should know that. It's the same with novice drivers. This is why we have a sticker that
indicates a junior/rookie driving licence.

The sooner we get used to silent vehicles, the better. Making noise makes no sense: especially if there
are ICE vehicles around (pedestrians).

My philosophy: It is unreasonable to "be polite" in situations where somebody can get injured or killed. You make a mistake, you should get a LOUD attention-attractive horn, as a minimum, and be ashamed by other bystanders. Ideally, a slightly longer discussion with an officer about safety on the pavement.


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## JWardell

I was crossing a major intersection at rush hour on the way to work this morning. Four lanes each way. I noticed how quiet and peaceful it was thanks to all the modern quiet running cars...or at least WOULD be, if not for one person talking on their cell phone at full conversation volume. Granted it was a rare coincidence that no trucks were present (they are next on the list to be electrified and quieted!) but I really am thankful that cars in general have become so much quieter that we can truly enjoy the lack of stress from a peaceful environment...at least until the cell phone guy comes along!

And now that reminds me of one of my favorite bits...


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## dogfood

I think I could be cool with this if the sound was that of an X-Wing or TIE Fighter (my choice dependent upon mood) and the ability to pop out some PEW-PEW-PEW via a steering wheel button smash at the appropriate time. Some John Williams in there would be the clincher.


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## Twiglett

Meh
Turn the stereo on and crank up the Motörhead


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## victor

This will totally work for any EV at low speed.






And a bonus video with a running pedestrian.


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## Red Sage

I love the Doppler Effect demonstration!


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## Oregonian

My money is still on this.


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## Red Sage

Oregonian said:


> My money is still on this.
> 
> View attachment 5663


It's all in the wrist.


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## Tesla Newbie

Article on Jag I-Pace includes audio of fake engine sound: The Verge


----------



## Bokonon

Tesla Newbie said:


> Article on Jag I-Pace includes audio of fake engine sound: The Verge


----------



## SolarPro

Bokonon said:


>


I actually think they're best shot at a manufactured noise is going with something that we're used to from futuristic sci-if movies. One of the reasons people fall in love with these cars when they drive them is that they feel they're in the future. This would reinforce that. However, it could get super hokey or annoying fast... good luck!


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## MelindaV

the latest discovery of a noise maker

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1083462019913842688


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## BluestarE3

People have been and continue to be stressed about getting their Teslas by certain dates to avoid missing out on some or all of the Federal Tax Credit. They should be equally stressed about getting their cars before September 1 to beat the noisemaker-free deadline.


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## Needsdecaf

BluestarE3 said:


> People have been and continue to be stressed about getting their Teslas by certain dates to avoid missing out on some or all of the Federal Tax Credit. They should be equally stressed about getting their cars before September 1 to beat the noisemaker-free deadline.


Or they could just do what people do on VW's with the in-cabin "Soundaktor" and just unplug the damn speaker.

Speaking of which, when I traded in my GTI I never re-connected the speaker. I wonder if it'll ever get re-connected by the next owner.


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## garsh

MelindaV said:


> the latest discovery of a noise maker


Well, where a noise maker will be mounted in the future.
The good news is that we'll know right where to go to cut the wires to that speaker.


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## Jay Jay

I wonder, is the law retro? Are they going to make Tesla put them in all cars? Or, least the ones like his (I haven't checked ours yet) that have the holes and the mounts for a speaker? Because if so, ugh.


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## FRC

I'm thinking 9/9/19 or so is the deadline date. Deliveries before then will be grandfathered.


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## garsh

Jay Jay said:


> I wonder, is the law retro? Are they going to make Tesla put them in all cars?


No. Just new cars.


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## MelindaV

FRC said:


> I'm thinking 9/9/19 or so is the deadline date. Deliveries before then will be grandfathered.


IIRC, it is a percentage of each manufacturer's EVs need to be equipped by the September deadline, then 100% of all EVs at a further out deadline. (I'm sure the actual info is outlined somewhere in this thread's prior posts.


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## FRC

MelindaV said:


> IIRC, it is a percentage of each manufacturer's EVs need to be equipped by the September deadline, then 100% of all EVs at a further out deadline. (I'm sure the actual info is outlined somewhere in this thread's prior posts.


Thanks for straitening me out Melinda. I think the important point for most of us is that: NO, we will not have to retrofit.


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## BluestarE3

MelindaV said:


> IIRC, it is a percentage of each manufacturer's EVs need to be equipped by the September deadline, then 100% of all EVs at a further out deadline. (I'm sure the actual info is outlined somewhere in this thread's prior posts.


50% of vehicles by September 2019 and 100% by September 2020. So, will some unlucky sods get the noisemakers this year and others luck out with only placebos? Or will Tesla just implement it on all cars later this year to be fair and to streamline production?


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## Dan Detweiler

Is it ok if I say that I think this entire piece of legislation is really, really stupid?

Dan


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## MelindaV

Dan Detweiler said:


> Is it ok if I say that I think this entire piece of legislation is really, really stupid?
> 
> Dan


Technically this is a regulation not legislation. USDOT is mandating this, it did not come from legislation. The end result is essentially the same though...


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## Dan Detweiler

MelindaV said:


> Technically this is a regulation not legislation. USDOT is mandating this, it did not come from legislation. The end result is essentially the same though...


Cool, I didn't know that. Nice to know. (deleted the rest of this post after realizing it was probably too political. lol)

Dan


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## BluestarE3

Modern ICE cars are also very quiet when driving at low speeds, such as in shopping centers or on neighborhood streets. Tire/road noise is what you hear from an approaching car, regardless of the means of propulsion. Yet, artificial noisemakers are not mandated for any ICE vehicles.

If anything, I'd rather see a requirement for all new cars to have a "heads-up" horn sound that the driver can use in lieu of the regular honk to alert an oblivious pedestrian to the car's presence. It would be akin to bicycle riders sounding their bells.


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## MountainPass

I wonder if when the car needs to be safetied/certified it will be checked for the noisemaker, and fail if it is not functioning.


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## JWardell

BluestarE3 said:


> Modern ICE cars are also very quiet when driving at low speeds, such as in shopping centers or on neighborhood streets. Tire/road noise is what you hear from an approaching car, regardless of the means of propulsion. Yet, artificial noisemakers are not mandated for any ICE vehicles.
> 
> If anything, I'd rather see a requirement for all new cars to have a "heads-up" horn sound that the driver can use in lieu of the regular honk to alert an oblivious pedestrian to the car's presence. It would be akin to bicycle riders sounding their bells.


That's right. This regulation is not so much a result of politics, but of ignorance. Most cars run extremely quietly at idle now. And drivers are supposed to be responsible enough not to run over other humans.
If anything it should say _all_ vehicles should produce a sound of at least XX dB on roads with pedestrian crossings.
Considering Tesla is mounting the speaker to the underbody, given the issues of pieces getting ripped off, I would wager there will be no more noise as soon as anyone drives through a puddle. No need for modification.


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## Bokonon

BluestarE3 said:


> If anything, I'd rather see a requirement for all new cars to have a "heads-up" horn sound that the driver can use in lieu of the regular honk to alert an oblivious pedestrian to the car's presence. It would be akin to bicycle riders sounding their bells.


Like the infamous pedestrian horn on the first-generation Volt:






My experience with it was that it confused the heck out of people ("was that a car horn, or a mating call from some kind of large buzzard?")... but it certainly succeeded in getting their attention.


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## Mike

MountainPass said:


> I wonder if when the car needs to be safetied/certified it will be checked for the noisemaker, and fail if it is not functioning.


My guess, based on experience with classic cars, is no.

It's much like buying and selling cars (today) that never had seat belts, or safety glass, or air bags when they were first built.


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## Karl Sun

My 2015 Prius C came with a noise maker that worked at slow speeds when under battery power. Sounded like quiet crickets. Disconnected it first time I hasd the front bumper cover off.

Our 2014 Camry Hybrid does not have this. However its inverted at low speeds is loud enough for me to hear ~50 feet away. With my really old and blown-out ears (too many years spend with my butt higher than my head around race cars - before I was smart enough to use hearing protection).


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## Karl Sun

MountainPass said:


> I wonder if when the car needs to be safetied/certified it will be checked for the noisemaker, and fail if it is not functioning.


 Safety and emissions inspections are up to the individual state. NOT dictated by Feds. It depends on your state.

MOST states do not have nay safety-related inspections at all. Which is Sad. IMHO.


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## MountainPass

Karl Sun said:


> Safety and emissions inspections are up to the individual state. NOT dictated by Feds. It depends on your state.
> 
> MOST states do not have nay safety-related inspections at all. Which is Sad. IMHO.


Ontario is pretty lax with safety laws, but I have never seen road-going vehicles as I have in the US. It's insane what kind of damage and disrepair people drive around with every day. It just seems unfair that the people who take care of their cars are still in danger due to the negligence of others.


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## Karl Sun

Most Ameircans only know how to drive large bumper cars, The larger, the better.

Sad.


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## Catchymoon

Hi is this suppossed to be there? Anyone know how this could have happened if not?


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## Love

Yes, this is for the upcoming law change in the United States (or perhaps it's active now? I haven't kept up) that EVs have to emit a sound of some kind as they move. Apparently they're TOO QUIET! lol. 
What you're seeing here looks to be the speaker area for the Model 3.

Edit to add: clarification that the law in question is in the U.S.


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## Catchymoon

Oh thank you so much, I was really worried. Its a jan/feb build and when I searched on Google no other Model 3 seemed to have this. This forum is filled with fast answering good people, who doesnt look down on you for asking even the dumbest of questions, I am really thankful.


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## garsh

DÆrik first noticed this change in January 2019:


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## FRC

garsh said:


> DÆrik first noticed this change in January 2019:


I had forgotten about this. When does the noisemaker go live?


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## FRC

FRC said:


> I had forgotten about this. When does the noisemaker go live?


Found it. 50% compliance by 9-1-19, 100% compliance by 9-1-20. So hopefully my wife's eagerly awaited car won't have it!


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## garsh

FRC said:


> Found it. 50% compliance by 9-1-19, 100% compliance by 9-1-20. So hopefully my wife's eagerly awaited car won't have it!


It looks like it won't be too hard to disconnect that speaker yourself even if the car has it.


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## Love

This would get old quick... but I thought the Jetson's "car" sound would be quite fun.


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## FRC

Lovesword said:


> This would get old quick... but I thought the Jetson's "car" sound would be quite fun.


Wouldn't work for me...My son's name isn't Elroy.


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## GDN

I watched a little of the Formula E EPrix race from NYC yesterday, it was hard to tell if those cars were making the EV car sound of if TV was adding it, but a little goes a long way. I love our cars as quiet as they are. I just wish we could wake up and realize that sometimes getting hit might be the fault of the person walking down the middle of the road, not the driver of a car. I do understand a few exceptions for a vision impaired person, etc., but what did we do before we put motors on the cars, it was nothing more than clip clop from the hooves of horses, so I've just decided that is the sound I prefer my car to make if it is going to have to make one.


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## NR4P

I wish my car had it. Doesn't have to be loud but something people outside the car will hear. 

Too many times I am driving down a row of parked cars and self absorbed people using their phones wander into the moving lane because they don't hear me. But if I were to hit them I am going to have a legal mess on my hands. Doesn't matter who is right but what a nightmare ahead.


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## JasonF

NR4P said:


> Too many times I am driving down a row of parked cars and self absorbed people using their phones wander into the moving lane because they don't hear me. But if I were to hit them I am going to have a legal mess on my hands. Doesn't matter who is right but what a nightmare ahead.


I constantly have people walk right in front of my car without even glancing my direction. But that happened _before_ I had an EV, so I can't say for sure it's because the car is quiet.


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## garsh

NR4P said:


> Too many times I am driving down a row of parked cars and self absorbed people using their phones wander into the moving lane because they don't hear me.


If you switch from an EV to a combustion car, you'll see that it makes no difference. The self-absorbed people will continue to use their phones and not realize that they're blocking a car.

Besides, there's always the horn button.


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## MelindaV

And the driver is always legally responsible to not run people down, even if the people are in the wrong place.


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## JasonF

garsh said:


> Besides, there's always the horn button.


I usually flash the lights instead. The horn too often tends to become a "start posturing" button for people who want to show off that they're so important they're worth waiting for. Then they could damage the car...or you.


----------



## Love

GDN said:


> I watched a little of the Formula E EPrix race from NYC yesterday, it was hard to tell if those cars were making the EV car sound of if TV was adding it, but a little goes a long way. I love our cars as quiet as they are. I just wish we could wake up and realize that sometimes getting hit might be the fault of the person walking down the middle of the road, not the driver of a car. I do understand a few exceptions for a vision impaired person, etc., but what did we do before we put motors on the cars, it was nothing more than clip clop from the hooves of horses, so I've just decided that is the sound I prefer my car to make if it is going to have to make one.


----------



## garsh

JasonF said:


> I usually flash the lights instead. The horn too often tends to become a "start posturing" button for people who want to show off that they're so important they're worth waiting for. Then they could damage the car...or you.


Very true.

I like the idea of a separate "pedestrian horn".


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## M3OC Rules

For those that think this is unnecessary there have been several studies on this. The NHTSA has two here and here. "In 2009 the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration released the report "Incidence of Pedestrian and Bicyclist Crashes by Hybrid Electric Passenger Vehicles" with the finding that an HE vehicle was two times more likely to be involved in a pedestrian crash than an ICE vehicle in situations involving low-speed maneuvers (Hanna, 2009)." I've seen another study that took blind people in a parking ramp and they could not hear the electric vehicle. Arguing that ICE cars are quiet too is an argument that we should add noise to quiet ICE cars. The burden is on the driver but suing someone doesn't fix a lot of people lives that get hit. Personally, I hate the idea of adding noise to my car just as much as everyone else. The better solution is to make the car not hit people. Perhaps they could add an exemption to the rule if the manufacturer can prove increased safety of not hitting pedestrians and cyclists.


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## bwilson4web

M3OC Rules said:


> The NHTSA has two here and here. "In 2009 the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration released the report "Incidence of Pedestrian and Bicyclist Crashes by Hybrid Electric Passenger Vehicles" with the finding that an HE vehicle was two times more likely to be involved in a pedestrian crash than an ICE vehicle in situations involving low-speed maneuvers (Hanna, 2009)."


We'll have to agree to disagree about this:
http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/Prius_Fatal_Accidents/prius_fatalities_2001_07.html

Sample set is too small to draw any conclusion. - "2x" claim comes from outside of the body of the report.
There is a left-right turn bias suggesting this is an "A" pillar problem. - We are seeing more accidents on left turns where the "A" pillar blocks more of the driver's view than right turns. 
Personally, I no longer care as the clueful manufacturers have made the sound hearable only away from the car, not the interior. You'd have to be next to a wall or building or another EV to hear the sound in the cabin.

I've got my 2019 Model 3 and it is 'pedestrian silent.' But if I can find a speaker, I may consider adding:





Once the pedestrians are doubled over laughing, they'll be easy ... to avoid.

Bob Wilson


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## M3OC Rules

bwilson4web said:


> We'll have to agree to disagree about this:
> http://hiwaay.net/~bzwilson/prius/Prius_Fatal_Accidents/prius_fatalities_2001_07.html
> 
> Sample set is too small to draw any conclusion. - "2x" claim comes from outside of the body of the report.
> There is a left-right turn bias suggesting this is an "A" pillar problem. - We are seeing more accidents on left turns where the "A" pillar blocks more of the driver's view than right turns.
> Personally, I no longer care as the clueful manufacturers have made the sound hearable only away from the car, not the interior. You'd have to be next to a wall or building or another EV to hear the sound in the cabin.
> 
> I've got my 2019 Model 3 and it is 'pedestrian silent.' But if I can find a speaker, I may consider adding:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once the pedestrians are doubled over laughing, they'll be easy ... to avoid.
> 
> Bob Wilson


While I'm not convinced I respect that you're making a scientific argument. I hope people are aware that this has been studied quite a bit as they are making their opinions. I'm not up on all the research in this area but I do see people echoing your point about lack of power on many of these studies. There are many lab studies, however, that show blind people have much more trouble hearing HE vehicles at lower speeds. So I guess I'm begrudgingly ok with the position of being a little proactive instead of waiting until we kill enough blind people to power the analysis. One interesting point made here, is that adding sound only helps if the ambient sound levels are low enough. At some point, the difference between ICE and HE/EV decreases with increases ambient noise. So reducing the noise of the other cars/trucks/buses is important as well.

Also, they have done studies on what sounds to use. They did not include your suggestion so maybe the study needs to be repeated.  This is again a very small sample size and I'm sure there are tons of other studies like this but I found the results interesting:










Ultimately I think a focus on making cars more pedestrian-friendly without adding sounds is a better solution and Tesla and Volvo are setting the example.

Edit: Small tone edit.


----------



## bwilson4web

Ten years ago, I was more concerned that the noise makers might delay:

pedestrian and car detection and avoidance systems
diagnosis of pedestrians deaths and injury - the "A" pillar hypothesis
As of March 26, 2019, we've owned a Tesla Model 3 and reduced my personal interest in accidents. We clearly have a superior, safe car. Over time, this will be evident in fatal vehicle accidents statistics.

Bob Wilson


----------



## TOFLYIN

This is the stupidest thing that legislators could waste their time on. I agree that quite cars can be a problem at low speed, but that is not just an EV problem. I would love to get the dB level from a Mercedes S500 or a Rolls Royce passing at 5 mpg. You don't hear the engine. So if quiet cars are a problem lets level the playing field. All cars must make the same db level or higher than a 1972 Yugo. Lets see what someone that paid more than $200K for their ICE sedan says about that.


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## gaduser

Regarding audio effects, I have thought that a tire noise cancellation system would be neat. It could come with means to tune it to your liking.


----------



## Kimmo57

A couple of weeks ago a Mercedes plug in SUV came behind me when I was walking across parking lot. I made a humming sound so I was able to notice it immediately and step aside. It was great.


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## BluestarE3

Kimmo57 said:


> A couple of weeks ago a Mercedes plug in SUV came behind me when I was walking across parking lot. I made a humming sound so I was able to notice it immediately and step aside. It was great.


What were you humming?


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## Kimmo57

BluestarE3 said:


> What were you humming?


Sorry, forgot a t. Here it is: t 😀


----------



## BluestarE3

Just curious: As of the beginning of this month (July), EU EVs are supposed to have the noisemaker. Can any recent Tesla owners in the EU comment on whether or not their new cars come with AVAS (Acoustic Vehicle Alert System) and what it sounds like?


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## racekarl

BluestarE3 said:


> Just curious: As of the beginning of this month (July), EU EVs are supposed to have the noisemaker. Can any recent Tesla owners in the EU comment on whether or not their new cars come with AVAS (Acoustic Vehicle Alert System) and what it sounds like?


The rule states that new car *models* released after July must have an AVAS. Existing models such as the model 3 have longer (2021, IIRC) to come in to compliance.


----------

