# Range question



## UGADAWG

New Tesla owner (MYLR, delivery end of September 2022)--I am really concerned about the range on my battery, which seems lower than I'd expect. It doesn't bother me around town, since I can charge at home, but on road trips, it's a problem. 

I've noticed it on other road trips, but since they happen infrequently, it's been hard to get good data. I talked to Tesla about a month ago, because I was getting about 60% of predicted range on a trip to the closest large city. I was told to precondition the battery longer due to cold weather. 

Today, another road trip. Battery was preconditioned. Two legs of the trip have the following data: 1. Drive 71 miles, lost 151 miles of range. 2. Drive 126 miles, lost 233 miles of range. This means I'm getting about 50% of predicted range. Winds are 8-12 mph. Driving about 75-80 mph (speed limit is 80). A trip which normally takes about 13 hours looks like it's going to take almost 20 hours. I had to stop to charge four times to get to a place 450 miles away (total trip is about 800 miles, so there will be several more stops). 

Is this normal? It seems crazy to me that a car with 330 miles of range will only go 160 miles or so. If it's normal, I need to know. If it's not normal, I need to know as well.

I would love input from more experienced Tesla owners. Thanks!


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## ThAbtO

Sounds normal.

The faster you go, the more energy it needs to use.


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## UGADAWG

ThAbtO said:


> Sounds normal.
> 
> The faster you go, the more energy it needs to use.


50% loss going under the speed limit, though? That means that in a place with 80 mph speed limit, a car with 330 mile range actually has 165 mile range?


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## ThAbtO

Its not the speed limit. the speed. 

You could probably get 1 mile per 1 energy mile when you are going 30mph, but that is only a guess.


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## UGADAWG

ThAbtO said:


> Its not the speed limit. the speed.
> 
> You could probably get 1 mile per 1 energy mile when you are going 30mph, but that is only a guess.


I understand that it isn't the speed limit, but if you're in an area with an 80 mph speed limit, driving at 65 mph means you're going to get blown off the road. It seems that the car is impractical in such an area. Anybody want to buy a Y?


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## UGADAWG

I did try driving at 60 mph for an extended stretch of interstate (extremely painful)--still getting 35-40% less than predicted range.


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## ThAbtO

Its called range anxiety and its perfectly normal.

Travelling 900 miles (both ways), you would need to charge about 1 time until you reach your destination each way.

Its still cheaper than a gas powered car. 

I have driven from the San Francisco, Ca area to Salt Lake City, Utah. I had to charge about 4 times each way. I drive at about 85 mph, the limit of FSD. Cost each way was about $100-$120. Still cheaper than gas, at least 3-4x the cost of gas.


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## UGADAWG

ThAbtO said:


> Its called range anxiety and its perfectly normal.
> 
> Travelling 900 miles (both ways), you would need to charge about 1 time until you reach your destination each way.


Wait--are you saying that we should be charging once in a 450 mile trip?


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## ThAbtO

UGADAWG said:


> Wait--are you saying that we should be charging once in a 450 mile trip?


The Model Y Long Range is only about 330 miles. If it could go that far on a full charge.
My range has dropped to about 310 now. Its only 5 months old. 
Warranty on the battery is 8 years. It would need to be replaced when its only can charge to under 70%, within 8 years.


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## UGADAWG

ThAbtO said:


> I have driven from the San Francisco, Ca area to Salt Lake City, Utah. I had to charge about 4 times each way. I drive at about 85 mph, the limit of FSD. Cost each way was about $100-$120. Still cheaper than gas, at least 3-4x the cost of gas.


We're driving from Twin Falls, Idaho to the Central Coast of California--so much of the same stretch of I-80. Using the car's navigation. Left the house with 90% charge in Idaho. The car had us stop in Wells, NV; Elko, NV: Winnemucca, NV; Lovelock, NV; Reno, NV--will be stopping on the other side of the Tahoe Pass as well. Each time charged to 90% and arrived at the next charger with 20-30% battery left. Driving 75-80 mph. I'm not worried about the cost, I'm worried about the time spent driving. It's taking about 30% longer than usual.


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## ThAbtO

UGADAWG said:


> We're driving from Twin Falls, Idaho to the Central Coast of California--so much of the same stretch of I-80. Using the car's navigation. Left the house with 90% charge in Idaho. The car had us stop in Wells, NV; Elko, NV: Winnemucca, NV; Lovelock, NV; Reno, NV--will be stopping on the other side of the Tahoe Pass as well. Each time charged to 90% and arrived at the next charger with 20-30% battery left. Driving 75-80 mph. I'm not worried about the cost, I'm worried about the time spent driving. It's taking about 30% longer than usual.


I have been on that stretch. There are no chargers between Twin Falls, ID and Wells, Nv and those chargers you mentioned, I have charged there. In Reno, NV, I charge at the El Dorado. On roadtrips, I charge to about 95%. From Reno, NV to Home is about 150 miles that I can reach without another charge, but it will get low.


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## UGADAWG

ThAbtO said:


> I have been on that stretch. There are no chargers between Twin Falls, ID and Wells, Nv and those chargers you mentioned, I have charged there. In Reno, NV, I charge at the El Dorado. On roadtrips, I charge to about 95%. From Reno, NV to Home is about 150 miles that I can reach without another charge, but it will get low.


I know there are no chargers between Twin and Wells--there's nothing there. But it's also only 115 miles. We left the house with 290 miles of range and got to Wells with 50 miles of range. Is it really normal to lose 240 miles of range when driving 115 miles? That seems crazy.


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## ThAbtO

If you want to charge a little faster, visit a v3 charger (250KW). The chargers labels end with A, B, C, or D. 
If you go to a charger site where they are only labeled A, or B, then they are 150KW. When the next charger is occupied, (say you are on 1A) and someone else is on 2B, then both charging will be using 75KW or less.


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## ThAbtO

UGADAWG said:


> I know there are no chargers between Twin and Wells--there's nothing there. But it's also only 115 miles. We left the house with 290 miles of range and got to Wells with 50 miles of range. Is it really normal to lose 240 miles of range when driving 115 miles? That seems crazy.


Normally yes.

Also going uphill (even 2% grade) uses more energy. But going downhill, you gain some, but not alot.

Don't expect a 300 miles range can reach 300 miles distance.


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## ThAbtO

Today, I drove about 20 miles and used about 50 miles of energy.


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## UGADAWG

ThAbtO said:


> Don't expect a 300 miles range can reach 300 miles distance.


I don't expect 300 miles. But if I ostensibly have 330, am I crazy to expect more than 150?


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## ThAbtO

Maybe more, maybe less.


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## UGADAWG

ThAbtO said:


> Maybe more, maybe less.





ThAbtO said:


> Maybe more, maybe less.


Thank you for the info. I can't see how this car is going to work for us. Spending 20 hours on a (normally) 13 hour drive is just not sustainable 😕


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## FRC

I'm closing in on 100K road trip miles, so I'll chime in. You should be able to achieve your 330 miles of rated range at a constant speed of around 50 mph on flat ground, in perfect weather, with all auxiliary power draws off. For every 5 miles over 50 you drive, expect a range loss of around 20 miles. So, at 80 mph, that range falls to 210 miles. Cold weather can easily suck 20% of your range, so 210 becomes 170. If you run the heater expect even less. So, yes, your experience is in line with expectation.

I would never recommend an EV to any traveler who takes long drives regularly where time is of the essence. But, if you road trip occasionally, the Tesla experience can be quite enjoyable with some behavioral changes. First, leave home at 100%, learn to stay within 5 mph of the speed limit, get off the interstate whenever practical, get used to more frequent stops (I've learned that this makes long distance travel MUCH more enjoyable), try to time your eating and biologic needs to coincide with charging stops, and try to never charge beyond 80% on the road (charging in the 80-100% range takes forever. Many of these suggestions require some experience to lessen range anxiety, and they require a bit of calculation rather than relying exclusively on the suggestions of the car. I rarely attempt any travel leg longer than 150 miles anymore. Not because I can't do it, but because I don't enjoy it. And I find that these methods add about 15% to my travel time. So, a 10-hour drive becomes 11.5, and that's fine with me. (GO DAWGS!!)


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## UGADAWG

FRC said:


> So, a 10-hour drive becomes 11.5, and that's fine with me.


Thank you so much. Unfortunately, the main road trip we do is across Nevada, so getting off the interstate is impractical (at best). But I'm seeing this 13 hour road trip become a 20 hour trip, which is just crazy.


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## FRC

UGADAWG said:


> Thank you so much. Unfortunately, the main road trip we do is across Nevada, so getting off the interstate is impractical (at best). But I'm seeing this 13 hour road trip become a 20 hour trip, which is just crazy.


Slow down and charge more often. You'll get there quicker.


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## ThAbtO

UGADAWG said:


> I'm seeing this 13 hour road trip become a 20 hour trip, which is just crazy.


You are over-estimating the time. Each charge session should take less than an hr.


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## UGADAWG

FRC said:


> Slow down and charge more often. You'll get there quicker.


We are charging AT EVERY SINGLE SUPERCHARGER ALONG THE WAY. And driving well under the speed limit.


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## ThAbtO

FRC said:


> Slow down and charge more often. You'll get there quicker.


Its hard to do that when most of Nevada is barren with no chargers in between.


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## FRC

ThAbtO said:


> You are over-estimating the time. Each charge session should take less than an hr.


My charge stops rarely exceed 25 minutes because I charge only enough to reach my next charging solution.


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## UGADAWG

ThAbtO said:


> You are over-estimating the time. Each charge session should take less than an hr.


Not overestimating the time. Have been on the road 12.5 hours and have traveled the distance we normally travel in 8 hours (we've done this drive many, many times--we know the normal amount of time it takes to get here). We still have five hours of "normal driving" left--and have been on the road for almost 13 hours. Twenty hours might be optimistic.


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## FRC

UGADAWG said:


> We are charging AT EVERY SINGLE SUPERCHARGER ALONG THE WAY. And driving well under the speed limit.


You also said that you're arriving at the next supercharger at 20-30%. I rarely arrive at over 12%. You're not charging too often, you're charging too long. And this is where experience to ease range anxiety is crucial.


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## ThAbtO

I have charged along the I-80 in Nevada with just about 40% remaining. Its just the chargers are so sparse in that state.

I have had it where the Tesla said it would not reach Reno from Winnemucca without another charge, only because there was no data connection. But I did have the range.


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## UGADAWG

FRC said:


> You also said that you're arriving at the next supercharger at 20-30%. I rarely arrive at over 12%. You're not charging too often, you're charging too long. And this is where experience to ease range anxiety is crucial.


Ok. We can try charging for shorter amounts of time--but when you're in Nevada, range anxiety isn't a theoretical concept, particularly in the winter. Now that we're in California with more options, it makes more sense to cut back on the time charging.


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## ThAbtO

What I tend to do is to charge up with an extra 25% to reach the next charger, in case of unpredicted delays,detours, etc.


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## FRC

ThAbtO said:


> What I tend to do is to charge up with an extra 25% to reach the next charger, in case of unpredicted delays,detours, etc.


I leave when the car says I'll arrive at 11%. Works great for me.


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## ThAbtO

UGADAWG said:


> Twenty hours might be optimistic.


That may be.

I drove from Jackson Wyoming, to Twin Falls, idaho, Wells, Nevada, Reno, NV, to home in about 18 hrs straight. Stopping only to charge, restroom breaks, and to eat (most of which I could do while driving.)
I live across the ways/bay from San Francisco.


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## UGADAWG

ThAbtO said:


> That may be.
> 
> I drove from Jackson Wyoming, to Twin Falls, idaho, Wells, Nevada, Reno, NV, to home in about 18 hrs straight. Stopping only to charge, restroom breaks, and to eat (most of which I could do while driving.)
> I live across the ways/bay from San Francisco.


What time of year was that? (ie., what was the temperature?--just trying to get a sense for this in the context of weather)
Thanks for all the info!


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## ThAbtO

October.

I wanted to visit Yellowstone and Grand Tetons before the snow hits. I might go back in the spring.


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## FRC

UGADAWG said:


> just trying to get a sense for this in the context of weather


My (very rough) experience: 30 degrees causes a 20% hit. 0 degrees a 40% hit.


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## ThAbtO

If you were to go to Alaska from Washington state, don't expect any SuperChargers in northern parts of Canada and have to rely on slower chargers, 50KW or less. They can take overnight for a full charge. In Alaska, there is just 1 SuperCharger.


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## FRC

ThAbtO said:


> n Alaska, there is just 1 SuperCharger.


2 now. But an exceedingly slow trip from Prince George to Chugiak. Trust me, I know!


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## ThAbtO

I haven't been to Alaska, but I can look up chargers with plugshare.com or the plugshare app.


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## francoisp

I've taken many long trips of around 600 miles, but never during winter. The car schedules 3 stops of 30 minutes each. We usually leave around 6am so by the second stop, 400 miles and 7 hours later, it's lunch time. We take our time eating and charge to 90% and that way we don't need to spend charging as long the third and last time. The stops add about 1.5 hours to our trip but 45 minutes would be spent eating anyway. I usually follow the speed limit. I could go faster but the time gained might be spent charging more often. It's definitely a frame of mind. I've been driving this road for over 20 years and before the Tesla it was all about getting to my destination as fast as possible but then I was all stressed out. Now I set the speed and turn on Navigate on Autopilot and I relax and enjoy the scenery while the car drives itself.


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## UGADAWG

francoisp said:


> I've taken many long trips of around 600 miles, but never during winter. The car schedules 3 stops of 30 minutes each. We usually leave around 6am so by the second stop, 400 miles and 7 hours later, it's lunch time.


We were on charge #5 by 450 miles into the trip. There is no way we'd make it 200 miles between charges.


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## ThAbtO

What is your predicted range when you set the charge limit to 100% while charging?

5 charges for a 450 mile travel? That is not normal. I'd expect up to 2 charges for that distance, at most.


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## UGADAWG

ThAbtO said:


> What is your predicted range when you set the charge limit to 100% while charging?
> 
> 5 charges for a 450 mile travel? That is not normal. I'd expect up to 2 charges for that distance, at most.


When the battery is charged to 100%, the range is listed as 328 miles. 

That's my concern. I just can't see that this is normal. I can't see the car being as popular as it is if it really gets only 50% of predicted range. 

I have a $4300 Prius (2005). Next time I do this trip, I'll bring that instead of my brand new Tesla. That sees crazy.


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## ThAbtO

328 max range is as good as it gets. Most of us do not charge fully to 100%, except for roadtrips.
When I drove from Wells, NV, I charged to nearly 100% and arrived in Twin Falls, ID with about 50 miles left. It was getting dark and didn't want to chance stopping for a night's rest with heating as I may not make it Twin Falls, if I did.


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## UGADAWG

ThAbtO said:


> 328 max range is as good as it gets. Most of us do not charge fully to 100%, except for roadtrips.
> When I drove from Wells, NV, I charged to nearly 100% and arrived in Twin Falls, ID with about 50 miles left. It was getting dark and didn't want to chance stopping for a night's rest with heating as I may not make it Twin Falls, if I did.


I know that 328 max range is as good as it gets--my point is that I get nowhere near that. 

So when you drove from Wells to Twin, you used over 200 miles of range to go 115 miles?


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## ThAbtO

UGADAWG said:


> So when you drove from Wells to Twin, you used over 200 miles of range to go 115 miles?


About that or 250 miles worth of energy. Mostly because in that direction, its uphill.


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## UGADAWG

ThAbtO said:


> About that or 250 miles worth of energy. Mostly because in that direction, its uphill.


Well, we used about the same amount to go downhill, then 🤷‍♀️


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## ThAbtO

Also going about 80-85mph.


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## francoisp

UGADAWG said:


> We were on charge #5 by 450 miles into the trip. There is no way we'd make it 200 miles between charges.


This is strange. I drive usually between 65 and 70 mph and get decent mileage. Are you overloaded on your trip? Between my wife and I and our luggages we add about 350 lbs. Are you going uphill? My itinerary is mostly flat. Do you maintain tire pressure around 42? I'm guessing you're not pulling a trailer but do you happen to have a bike rack or a roof rack?

To do a good test you need to do a return trip on the same road to eliminate change of altitude and wind. Charge your car to 90%, drive 30 miles on a flat dry road at your typical speed and come back. Take a picture of your trip info. I'd be curious to see your consumption.


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## jsmay311

If the OP has the latest software with the updated energy screen, I’d recommend looking at the trip energy screen that shows the predicted and actual energy consumption by source (driving, climate, battery conditioning, elevation, and other).

A 50% hit does sound pretty extreme, but not totally implausible.

You/we should try to understand the factors that will hurt your efficiency and range. Already mentioned plenty have been the two most significant factors: speed and outdoor air temperature. But also important are:

Wind (a decent headwind or even crosswind can have a significant impact. Which direction was the 8-12mph wind blowing?)
Weight (how many extra lbs of passengers and cargo?)
Wheels (19” or 20” or 21”? Bigger is worse for efficiency. And omitting aero covers from the aero wheels will also hurt.)
Tires (OEM?)
Tire pressure
Climate settings (turning on heated seats and turning down the s as it temp a bit will help a bit)
Elevation changes
For one point of reference, InsideEVs does 70mph range tests, and they got 87% of the rated range when testing a 2020 MYLR in hot summer temps with the A/C running on flat terrain with little wind.








Tesla Model Y 70 MPH Highway Range Test: How Far Did It Go?


We fully charge a 2020 Tesla Model Y electric crossover and take it out on the highway. We then drive at a constant 70 mph to see how far it will go.




insideevs.com


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## UGADAWG

jsmay311 said:


> Wind (a decent headwind or even crosswind can have a significant impact. Which direction was the 8-12mph wind blowing?)
> 
> Weight (how many extra lbs of passengers and cargo?)
> Wheels (19” or 20” or 21”? Bigger is worse for efficiency. And omitting aero covers from the aero wheels will also hurt.)
> Tires (OEM?)
> Tire pressure
> Climate settings (turning on heated seats and turning down the s as it temp a bit will help a bit)
> Elevation changes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tesla Model Y 70 MPH Highway Range Test: How Far Did It Go?
> 
> 
> We fully charge a 2020 Tesla Model Y electric crossover and take it out on the highway. We then drive at a constant 70 mph to see how far it will go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> insideevs.com


Some crosswind
One passenger (about 200 lbs), maybe 30 lbs of cargo
19" wheels
Winter tires (necessary)
Tire pressure 41 psi
Climate settings 68 degrees
Elevation changes -- I-80 across Nevada (not sure of exact changes)

Car is now in California, and it's almost like an entirely different car--getting about 80% of estimated range for the first time since we got the damn thing.


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## garsh

UGADAWG said:


> We're driving from Twin Falls, Idaho to the Central Coast of California--so much of the same stretch of I-80.


UGADAWG, you sound like you'd like to figure out if you actually have an issue, or if this is what is to be expected of Tesla ownership. I'd like to help you figure that out.  

Can you give me exact starting and ending points for the trip? If you don't feel comfortable providing that, then endpoints that are close enough would be fine. I just would like some addresses that I can put in a trip-planning tool to see how far off your experience is from what is to be expected.


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## FRC

ThAbtO said:


> About that or 250 miles worth of energy. Mostly because in that direction, its uphill.


Actually, Wells NV is about 2000 ft higher than Twin Falls.


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## UGADAWG

garsh said:


> UGADAWG, you sound like you'd like to figure out if you actually have an issue, or if this is what is to be expected of Tesla ownership. I'd like to help you figure that out.
> 
> Can you give me exact starting and ending points for the trip? If you don't feel comfortable providing that, then endpoints that are close enough would be fine. I just would like some addresses that I can put in a trip-planning tool to see how far off your experience is from what is to be expected.


Thanks! If you use these addresses, you'll be within a mile of starting and ending points. 156 Main Ave N, Twin Falls and 8320 El Camino Real, Atascadero, CA. The real problem was between Twin Falls and Reno, with the car navigation indicating the need to stop at every supercharger along the way (Wells, NV; Elko, NV; Winnemucca, NV; and Lovelock, NV--before getting to Reno). We expected that the part of the trip from Reno up and over the Tahoe pass would be less than fun (and it was), but the real kicker was that the trip from Twin Falls to Reno took 10 hours, rather than the 6.5 it normally takes. It was 453 miles from home to the Reno supercharger, and that was the fifth charging stop for the trip. After getting over the pass in Tahoe, the rest of the trip was pretty smooth sailing, with range running about 80% of predicted. It was the first half of the trip that was so painful. 

I talked to Tesla about a month ago, when I was getting about 60% of predicted range on a trip from Twin Falls to SLC. They indicated I needed to precondition longer (so I did). We also optimized tire pressure, and I even tried driving at 60 mph for a stretch of interstate (which was actually terrifying, because I was going much slower than regular traffic). During that stretch, I was still getting only about 65% of predicted range. 

I will say that the car seemed like an entirely different vehicle once we got over the pass in Tahoe, into the Sacramento area. I can understand why it's so popular in the Bay Area. I would just like to know if I'm just going to have to suck it up and deal with truly terrible (sometimes less than 50% of what is projected) range at certain times of the year in certain parts of the country, like where I live and actually drive the car--or if there is something wrong with my battery. 

I am an optimizer by nature, and loved figuring out how to get the most mileage out every other car I've owned--I just want to figure this one out, too. 

Thanks!


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## FRC

Based on everything that's been said here, I don't believe there is any issue with your battery. Some factors are out of your control, and you'll just have to adjust. Others you can control (or choose not to).

Speed- This is ALWAYS the biggest energy killer, whether it's in an EV or an ICE. Happily, you can control this (within limits).
Ambient Temperature- The colder it is, the worse will be your efficiency. The battery doesn't like extreme temperatures and cold air is denser and requires more energy to push through. Other than pre-conditioning, this one's out of your control.
Elevation changes- Out of your control, but important to be aware of (as you learned from Twin Falls to Wells). Overall, on a round trip these changes have a negligible effect. But the effect on a long uphill leg can be worrisome.
Wind- In many places this can be as troublesome as temperature. A 20-mph headwind can be devastating and can potentially be against you in both directions of a roundtrip.
Auxiliary power usage- Anything you turn on in the car uses power. But climate control is the biggest drain by far. In cold weather I use the seat heater exclusively (even with an ambient of -25 degrees F), but I am warm-natured and generally travel alone. AC is also a major drain. Generally, I just put up with this drain (being warm-natured). But I do turn the temp up a few degrees. Also, I sometimes run fan only, or crack the windows (surprisingly, the aerodynamic loss from opened windows is more efficient than running the AC, IMHO).
Supercharging habits- This is almost entirely within your control but requires a comfort level that only experience can provide. Obviously trying to time your stops to coincide with biologic needs is huge. I've done this so much now that I actually HATE to stop anywhere if I'm not charging. Also, try not to charge from below the 5% level-charging from this level is slow to ramp up. Similarly, try to never charge beyond 80%. Charging from 80-100% is painfully slow. If you arrive at a supercharger with a 25-30% charge, you likely spent 20 minutes or more too long at your previous stop. Try to spend the night at hotels with complimentary L2 charging in order to prevent a stop tomorrow morning (saves time and money).

As I've stated previously, I wouldn't recommend an EV to a frequent business traveler for whom time is of the essence. But for occasional travelers, awareness of the elements above can reduce additional travel time to 15% more than an ICE vehicle. And this additional time is more than made up for by local travel when you're not stopping for gas, oil changes, and service visits.

Happy motoring! And GO DAWGS!!

PS- I live in Athens, GA, but I'm curious...What's a Bulldawg doing in Idaho?


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## UGADAWG

[QUOTE="FRC, post: 355319, member: 19913"

PS- I live in Athens, GA, but I'm curious...What's a Bulldawg doing in Idaho?
[/QUOTE]

FRC, thank you so much for this info! I took delivery of the car at the end of September, so it has literally been below 50 degrees since I got the car. I've never seen the car perform in warmer temperatures and I have been starting to get paranoid that my car had a bad battery.

Now, with the car in California on this trip, I can actually see why people want it (😂)--up to this point, I have loved it around town, but been so frustrated with any interstate driving. 

I'll take your advice to heart and try to develop some new habits. And I'll look forward to warmer weather. 

GO DAWGS! As a lifelong Dawg and grad of UGA, the past two years have been truly glorious. We ended up in Idaho because there's a bridge that's legal to jump off of, and my husband wanted to start a BASE jumping school. (Yeah, my life ended up taking some turns I didn't expect 🤓.) We have been out here about 18 years. It's a great place to live, really nice pace of life, very little traffic, and I managed to get a license plate that says UGADAWG, which I will hold onto forever. 

Thanks again for all your help!


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## wa4yih

There are at least two things that are impacting your range. The first one is speed for about every 5mph over 60mph, you'll get a 10% range reduction. Yep, it I pretty significant, but easily fixed. 

And during the winter months, you can expect about 30% decrease because of the temperature. That's why SoCal is giving you much better range. 

Put the two together and a decrease of over 50% is really easy to do. 

Didn't read every thing in this thread, but I did see something about long charging times. You really should never need to charge for more than 30 minutes or 80%. Some studies indicate that hitting every charger along the route may be the fastest way to travel. By keeping your battery between 10% and 50% then you will always be charging at the fastest rate and not have to stop for over 15 minutes. Yes, you only would charge to 50%.

You should really never charge to 100% at a Supercharger and shouldn't have to charge over 80% except for special situations. 

There are ALWAYS a number of posts this time of year about crappy range from new owners, it's just a fact of life, and yet another reason to hope that Spring comes faster


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## garsh

UGADAWG said:


> Thanks! If you use these addresses, you'll be within a mile of starting and ending points. 156 Main Ave N, Twin Falls and 8320 El Camino Real, Atascadero, CA.


I used ABetterRoutePlanner, and left settings at default, which are mainly "start at 90% charge" and "try to arrive at superchargers with 10% charge", and "assume seasonal weather". It gives this route suggestion. This is a nice tool for planning trips ahead of time. It gives you an idea of how long you need to charge at each location too.



> The real problem was between Twin Falls and Reno, with the car navigation indicating the need to stop at every supercharger along the way (Wells, NV; Elko, NV; Winnemucca, NV; and Lovelock, NV--before getting to Reno).


ABRP suggests stops at Elko, Winnemucca, and Fernley. Kind of strange that the car recommended stopping at Wells too.



> We expected that the part of the trip from Reno up and over the Tahoe pass would be less than fun (and it was), but the real kicker was that the trip from Twin Falls to Reno took 10 hours, rather than the 6.5 it normally takes. It was 453 miles from home to the Reno supercharger, and that was the fifth charging stop for the trip.


Let's dig into this part a little more then.

These first three ABRP suggested legs are 165 miles, 126 miles, and 129 miles. The latter two use 55%-60% of the battery. But all three of those initial stops only recommend charging up to 65%-70%. This is kind of important for road-tripping a Tesla. The "bottom" of the battery charges significantly faster than the top. ABRP says that those first three charging stops should take 17 minutes, 21 minutes, and 23 minutes.

Here's the same route, except now I've told ABRP that we wish to arrive at each supercharger with just 1% battery. You probably don't want to cut things that close, but some of us have been known to do so (as @Mad Hungarian can attest). We have the same first three recommended stops, but now the charging time estimates are 13 minutes, 20 minutes, and 20 minutes, saving 8 minutes.

Here's the same route, except now I've told ABRP that we wish to arrive at each supercharger with 25% battery. I believe this is a little more similar to what you were doing. Doing this adds an additional stop at Wells for 6 minutes, and the next two stops will take 20 minutes and 27 minutes. The third stop is only 11 minutes, but that's due to a new suggested stop at Donner Pass shortly after Reno. But this strategy adds about 20-30 minutes to this leg of the trip! Mostly because you have to charge the car up to 80%-85%, and that takes significantly longer because supercharging speed start tapering off aggressively above 60% battery.

Now, you said that this leg of the trip took you 10 hours. But even in this last scenario, ABRP thinks it should take less than 7 hours. How far did you charge up on each stop? I can't imagine it taking 10 hours unless you were charging to 100% at each stop.


----------



## UGADAWG

garsh said:


> ABRP suggests stops at Elko, Winnemucca, and Fernley. Kind of strange that the car recommended stopping at Wells too.
> 
> Now, you said that this leg of the trip took you 10 hours. But even in this last scenario, ABRP thinks it should take less than 7 hours. How far did you charge up on each stop? I can't imagine it taking 10 hours unless you were charging to 100% at each stop.


We had to stop in Wells--left Twin Falls with 90% battery and arrived in Wells with less than 20% battery. 

Generally charged to 90%--used the car's navigation, but it generally indicated that charging to 90% would mean arriving at the next supercharger with 10-20% battery, so we didn't feel comfortable charging only to 80%, particularly given the fact that chargers were approximately 100 miles apart and we did not want to run out of battery.


----------



## Stats App

Efficiency depends on temperature.
here is a graph from Stats app for Tesla


----------



## farzinazima1

UGADAWG said:


> New Tesla owner (MYLR, delivery end of September 2022)--I am really concerned about the range on my battery, which seems lower than I'd expect. It doesn't bother me around town, since I can charge at home, but on road trips, it's a problem.
> 
> I've noticed it on other road trips, but since they happen infrequently, it's been hard to get good data. I talked to Tesla about a month ago, because I was getting about 60% of predicted range on a trip to the closest large city. I was told to precondition the battery longer due to cold weather.
> 
> Today, another road trip. Battery was preconditioned. Two legs of the trip have the following data: 1. Drive 71 miles, lost 151 miles of range. 2. Drive 126 miles, lost 233 miles of range. This means I'm getting about 50% of predicted range. Winds are 8-12 mph. Driving about 75-80 mph (speed limit is 80). A trip which normally takes about 13 hours looks like it's going to take almost 20 hours. I had to stop to charge four times to get to a place 450 miles away (total trip is about 800 miles, so there will be several more stops).
> 
> Is this normal? It seems crazy to me that a car with 330 miles of range will only go 160 miles or so. If it's normal, I need to know. If it's not normal, I need to know as well.
> 
> I would love input from more experienced Tesla owners. Thanks!


In my experience with model Y I can only count on around 50% of the displayed range especially when heater or cooler is on. This car is an "in town" car, a good second car!


----------



## DWolvin

Different route, different car, different driver (just putting it all out there). I think the problem is a little bit speed, a large amount hills. I too my 2018 3 (LR) from San Diego to Detroit and back and found it to be within spitting distance timewise. But I was mostly flat and was able to use EAP most of the time (Set 7 over). My range estimate was used to commuting faster than that, so when I left the house with an estimate of ~300 miles, the indicated range was pretty close. Two final points: Coast to Coast has been done in 48 hours in a stock 3, which indicates your route in winter is a bit of an outlier (@20 hours w/ charging).


----------



## FRC

Stats App said:


> Efficiency depends on temperature.
> here is a graph from Stats app for Tesla
> 
> View attachment 46016


The more interesting data is off the left side of your graph. What happens from, say, 0 to 45 degrees F?


----------



## kdjones

IMO, 75 mph works best and don't charge to 100% every time you stop. When prompted that you have enough charge to continue your trip it's best to stop charging and continue. Charging beyond to 100% will add 20 min or more to each charging session. 
Hope that helps 
2018 M3LR 127000+ miles


----------



## ticobird

UGADAWG said:


> It's taking about 30% longer than usual.


This is near normal and typically an attribute of road tripping any EV that new owners are unaware of and are annoyed when they find out. You'll become accustomed to driving the bottom half of your battery as you gain confidence in the range prediction of your Tesla. I mention the bottom half because that is where you will see the fastest charging speeds. As long as you let your Tesla pre-condition the battery for fast charging you can see charge times from 10% to 80% as quick as 35 minutes and as long as you time the charge stop with other things you will see less of an impact on trip times. Generally, as you get better at road tripping your Tesla you can expect to cover the same daily range by adding an extra hour or two to a day's driving time.


----------



## Sjohnson20

I have a 2022 Y.

If I'm on a road trip I usually drive for 180-225 miles before stopping at a supercharger, so around 3 hours of driving. 

I usually lose around 50 miles of range driving at 75 miles per hour, sometimes less. My watt hours per mile is at 262 right now since I got the car. 

But, I'm in Florida and we don't get the extreme cold. I do drive to Georgia and North Carolina and I did notice a huge drop when the temps were around freezing. What is the temperature outside when you are losing 150 miles of range? EVs hate cold weather, it's pretty much just how it is.


----------



## jtkeeney3

UGADAWG said:


> New Tesla owner (MYLR, delivery end of September 2022)--I am really concerned about the range on my battery, which seems lower than I'd expect. It doesn't bother me around town, since I can charge at home, but on road trips, it's a problem.
> 
> I've noticed it on other road trips, but since they happen infrequently, it's been hard to get good data. I talked to Tesla about a month ago, because I was getting about 60% of predicted range on a trip to the closest large city. I was told to precondition the battery longer due to cold weather.
> 
> Today, another road trip. Battery was preconditioned. Two legs of the trip have the following data: 1. Drive 71 miles, lost 151 miles of range. 2. Drive 126 miles, lost 233 miles of range. This means I'm getting about 50% of predicted range. Winds are 8-12 mph. Driving about 75-80 mph (speed limit is 80). A trip which normally takes about 13 hours looks like it's going to take almost 20 hours. I had to stop to charge four times to get to a place 450 miles away (total trip is about 800 miles, so there will be several more stops).
> 
> Is this normal? It seems crazy to me that a car with 330 miles of range will only go 160 miles or so. If it's normal, I need to know. If it's not normal, I need to know as well.
> 
> I would love input from more experienced Tesla owners. Thanks!


You are battling two demons: cold weather ops and the co-efficient of drag which is very steep above 60 MPH. The estimated range rating is not at 80 MPH. My model Y Performance boasts 307 miles range. I have never seen it charge to above 297 and I really baby her. Not an answer you wanted to hear but, I will take a Tesla over any EV. Why? Speed of charge at a Super Charger. I spend 12 minutes to add 135 miles while the others spend 8 hours.


----------



## thomcg

UGADAWG said:


> New Tesla owner (MYLR, delivery end of September 2022)--I am really concerned about the range on my battery, which seems lower than I'd expect. It doesn't bother me around town, since I can charge at home, but on road trips, it's a problem.
> 
> I've noticed it on other road trips, but since they happen infrequently, it's been hard to get good data. I talked to Tesla about a month ago, because I was getting about 60% of predicted range on a trip to the closest large city. I was told to precondition the battery longer due to cold weather.
> 
> Today, another road trip. Battery was preconditioned. Two legs of the trip have the following data: 1. Drive 71 miles, lost 151 miles of range. 2. Drive 126 miles, lost 233 miles of range. This means I'm getting about 50% of predicted range. Winds are 8-12 mph. Driving about 75-80 mph (speed limit is 80). A trip which normally takes about 13 hours looks like it's going to take almost 20 hours. I had to stop to charge four times to get to a place 450 miles away (total trip is about 800 miles, so there will be several more stops).
> 
> Is this normal? It seems crazy to me that a car with 330 miles of range will only go 160 miles or so. If it's normal, I need to know. If it's not normal, I need to know as well.
> 
> I would love input from more experienced Tesla owners. Thanks!


Look at your Energy Screen. It will tell you the contributing factors to your battery usage.


----------



## Mrp911

Be interesting if others would share their Wh/mile off the Trip page. I have 92,000 miles and my average is 263 Wh/mi in my 2018 M3 LR dual motor and that includes multiple trips San Diego to Oregon with 150 lbs of bikes on a trailer hitch bike rack and a fully packed car. On trips we usually drive 73mph on FSD. Avoids tickets and good range.

Our trip from North San Diego to Mammoth Lakes Ca is 370 Miles. Start with 90% and charge once for 25 minutes 205 miles away arriving with about 10-15% remaining. This is all very acceptable for us. No complaints. My 100% charge still yields about 282 miles of charged miles.

Aero Wheels 18” Michelin stock tires with correct 42psi are also on the car. Achieved 52,000 mile on first set of and should be close to that with second set.

Still the best car owned in overall satisfaction and that includes my 1996 Porsche Carrera.


----------



## jtkeeney3

UGADAWG said:


> New Tesla owner (MYLR, delivery end of September 2022)--I am really concerned about the range on my battery, which seems lower than I'd expect. It doesn't bother me around town, since I can charge at home, but on road trips, it's a problem.
> 
> I've noticed it on other road trips, but since they happen infrequently, it's been hard to get good data. I talked to Tesla about a month ago, because I was getting about 60% of predicted range on a trip to the closest large city. I was told to precondition the battery longer due to cold weather.
> 
> Today, another road trip. Battery was preconditioned. Two legs of the trip have the following data: 1. Drive 71 miles, lost 151 miles of range. 2. Drive 126 miles, lost 233 miles of range. This means I'm getting about 50% of predicted range. Winds are 8-12 mph. Driving about 75-80 mph (speed limit is 80). A trip which normally takes about 13 hours looks like it's going to take almost 20 hours. I had to stop to charge four times to get to a place 450 miles away (total trip is about 800 miles, so there will be several more stops).
> 
> Is this normal? It seems crazy to me that a car with 330 miles of range will only go 160 miles or so. If it's normal, I need to know. If it's not normal, I need to know as well.
> 
> I would love input from more experienced Tesla owners. Thanks!


After reading the entire thread, in addition to cold and drag coefficient, the winter tires are also hurting your range.


----------



## Husky10101

UGADAWG said:


> New Tesla owner (MYLR, delivery end of September 2022)--I am really concerned about the range on my battery, which seems lower than I'd expect. It doesn't bother me around town, since I can charge at home, but on road trips, it's a problem.
> 
> I've noticed it on other road trips, but since they happen infrequently, it's been hard to get good data. I talked to Tesla about a month ago, because I was getting about 60% of predicted range on a trip to the closest large city. I was told to precondition the battery longer due to cold weather.
> 
> Today, another road trip. Battery was preconditioned. Two legs of the trip have the following data: 1. Drive 71 miles, lost 151 miles of range. 2. Drive 126 miles, lost 233 miles of range. This means I'm getting about 50% of predicted range. Winds are 8-12 mph. Driving about 75-80 mph (speed limit is 80). A trip which normally takes about 13 hours looks like it's going to take almost 20 hours. I had to stop to charge four times to get to a place 450 miles away (total trip is about 800 miles, so there will be several more stops).
> 
> Is this normal? It seems crazy to me that a car with 330 miles of range will only go 160 miles or so. If it's normal, I need to know. If it's not normal, I need to know as well.
> 
> I would love input from more experienced Tesla owners. Thanks!


I see you are in southern Idaho, has it been as cold there as in the Idaho panhandle? If so this also really affects your range.


----------



## lrondenet

UGADAWG said:


> New Tesla owner (MYLR, delivery end of September 2022)--I am really concerned about the range on my battery, which seems lower than I'd expect. It doesn't bother me around town, since I can charge at home, but on road trips, it's a problem.
> 
> I've noticed it on other road trips, but since they happen infrequently, it's been hard to get good data. I talked to Tesla about a month ago, because I was getting about 60% of predicted range on a trip to the closest large city. I was told to precondition the battery longer due to cold weather.
> 
> Today, another road trip. Battery was preconditioned. Two legs of the trip have the following data: 1. Drive 71 miles, lost 151 miles of range. 2. Drive 126 miles, lost 233 miles of range. This means I'm getting about 50% of predicted range. Winds are 8-12 mph. Driving about 75-80 mph (speed limit is 80). A trip which normally takes about 13 hours looks like it's going to take almost 20 hours. I had to stop to charge four times to get to a place 450 miles away (total trip is about 800 miles, so there will be several more stops).
> 
> Is this normal? It seems crazy to me that a car with 330 miles of range will only go 160 miles or so. If it's normal, I need to know. If it's not normal, I need to know as well.
> 
> I would love input from more experienced Tesla owners. Thanks!


Last week I drove to Southwest Florida , a trip that normal takes 23 hr from Chicago. This trip took about 31 hours do to stopping to charge. I have a Tesla Model 3 LR and had to drive between 75 and 85 to avoid being run over. I had no trouble finding Tesla Super Chargers though, one was at a exit that HAD BEEN under construction and the map got me of the interstate one exit before the one I needed and took me on a 25 minute ride through back country.Before Leaving my home I was able to put a 100% charge on my battery but after that unless I wanted to sit for an hour I would put in 80% which only got me about 200 miles at best. The only saving grace is this trip normal would cost me $300/$350 in gas (maybe more with price as they are) in charging fees I only paid $172. Also the Tesla Is a very comfortable to travel in. My previous trips were in a Lincoln MKX which I was comfortable in but not as I was in my Model 3.


----------



## Dan in NC

UGADAWG said:


> New Tesla owner (MYLR, delivery end of September 2022)--I am really concerned about the range on my battery, which seems lower than I'd expect. It doesn't bother me around town, since I can charge at home, but on road trips, it's a problem.
> 
> I've noticed it on other road trips, but since they happen infrequently, it's been hard to get good data. I talked to Tesla about a month ago, because I was getting about 60% of predicted range on a trip to the closest large city. I was told to precondition the battery longer due to cold weather.
> 
> Today, another road trip. Battery was preconditioned. Two legs of the trip have the following data: 1. Drive 71 miles, lost 151 miles of range. 2. Drive 126 miles, lost 233 miles of range. This means I'm getting about 50% of predicted range. Winds are 8-12 mph. Driving about 75-80 mph (speed limit is 80). A trip which normally takes about 13 hours looks like it's going to take almost 20 hours. I had to stop to charge four times to get to a place 450 miles away (total trip is about 800 miles, so there will be several more stops).
> 
> Is this normal? It seems crazy to me that a car with 330 miles of range will only go 160 miles or so. If it's normal, I need to know. If it's not normal, I need to know as well.
> 
> I would love input from more experienced Tesla owners. Thanks!


Drag is proportional to square of speed. So 80 mph will take 4x the energy of 40 mph. I don't know at what speed Tesla does their rating, but likely not at 70-80mph. Its just physics!


----------



## MartySeattle

UGADAWG said:


> New Tesla owner (MYLR, delivery end of September 2022)--I am really concerned about the range on my battery, which seems lower than I'd expect. It doesn't bother me around town, since I can charge at home, but on road trips, it's a problem.
> 
> I've noticed it on other road trips, but since they happen infrequently, it's been hard to get good data. I talked to Tesla about a month ago, because I was getting about 60% of predicted range on a trip to the closest large city. I was told to precondition the battery longer due to cold weather.
> 
> Today, another road trip. Battery was preconditioned. Two legs of the trip have the following data: 1. Drive 71 miles, lost 151 miles of range. 2. Drive 126 miles, lost 233 miles of range. This means I'm getting about 50% of predicted range. Winds are 8-12 mph. Driving about 75-80 mph (speed limit is 80). A trip which normally takes about 13 hours looks like it's going to take almost 20 hours. I had to stop to charge four times to get to a place 450 miles away (total trip is about 800 miles, so there will be several more stops).
> 
> Is this normal? It seems crazy to me that a car with 330 miles of range will only go 160 miles or so. If it's normal, I need to know. If it's not normal, I need to know as well.
> 
> I would love input from more experienced Tesla owners. Thanks!


I’m a new owner as well and share your concerns…

I have a 2023 Model MYLR and it was born on 10/25/2022. Picked up the car on Nov 30, 2022 with 7 miles on the odometer and charged to 58%.

As of yesterday I have added 159 kwh and have gone 297 miles. It was at 53% charged, close to what I started with.

So that is 0.54 kWh per mile or 1.87 M/kwh. Then the range of my 74 kwh battery is 138 miles. 

I drive the car like my old ICE, mix of local streets, arterials and freeways around Seattle. The temperature has been running in the 40’s. We use the climate controls as needed and keep within 5% of the speed limit(easy w/Tesla). So I do not see this aspect of my driving changing. I’ve been mostly charging at Superchargers to the 90% level, as I have a few more weeks until my electrician can get to my home 240v outlet install. 

I did bring the car into Tesla, yesterday, for a few minor delivery issues and had them check the battery and charging “systems”. They basically said that it is” above spec”.

So I guess I should plan on getting a real world range of 138 miles meaning that I should plan on hitting superchargers every 100 miles or so. Maybe a little further during the warmer months. Is this what I should expect with my new car?


----------



## Mad Hungarian

garsh said:


> I used ABetterRoutePlanner, and left settings at default, which are mainly "start at 90% charge" and "try to arrive at superchargers with 10% charge", and "assume seasonal weather". It gives this route suggestion. This is a nice tool for planning trips ahead of time. It gives you an idea of how long you need to charge at each location too.
> 
> ABRP suggests stops at Elko, Winnemucca, and Fernley. Kind of strange that the car recommended stopping at Wells too.
> 
> 
> Let's dig into this part a little more then.
> 
> These first three ABRP suggested legs are 165 miles, 126 miles, and 129 miles. The latter two use 55%-60% of the battery. But all three of those initial stops only recommend charging up to 65%-70%. This is kind of important for road-tripping a Tesla. The "bottom" of the battery charges significantly faster than the top. ABRP says that those first three charging stops should take 17 minutes, 21 minutes, and 23 minutes.
> 
> Here's the same route, except now I've told ABRP that we wish to arrive at each supercharger with just 1% battery. You probably don't want to cut things that close, but some of us have been known to do so (as @Mad Hungarian can attest). We have the same first three recommended stops, but now the charging time estimates are 13 minutes, 20 minutes, and 20 minutes, saving 8 minutes.
> 
> Here's the same route, except now I've told ABRP that we wish to arrive at each supercharger with 25% battery. I believe this is a little more similar to what you were doing. Doing this adds an additional stop at Wells for 6 minutes, and the next two stops will take 20 minutes and 27 minutes. The third stop is only 11 minutes, but that's due to a new suggested stop at Donner Pass shortly after Reno. But this strategy adds about 20-30 minutes to this leg of the trip! Mostly because you have to charge the car up to 80%-85%, and that takes significantly longer because supercharging speed start tapering off aggressively above 60% battery.
> 
> Now, you said that this leg of the trip took you 10 hours. But even in this last scenario, ABRP thinks it should take less than 7 hours. How far did you charge up on each stop? I can't imagine it taking 10 hours unless you were charging to 100% at each stop.


If you arrive with more than 1%, you're not living your fullest life.


😁


----------



## Soto

I notice a difference if having these two options changed: regen on to the most aggressive and also keeping it on "hold" instead of creep.


----------



## garsh

UGADAWG said:


> We had to stop in Wells--left Twin Falls with 90% battery and arrived in Wells with less than 20% battery.


In an attempt to replicate that in ABRP, I set:

Reference speed to 120% of speed limit
Maximum speed to 100 mph
Initial vehicle temperature to 30° F
Extra weight to 1000 lbs
It now adds a stop at Wells, but predicts that you would arrive with 32% battery: link

How cold was it during your trip?
ABRP used to have a field to set the temperature, but that appears to be gone now.


----------



## sfaraz

UGADAWG said:


> New Tesla owner (MYLR, delivery end of September 2022)--I am really concerned about the range on my battery, which seems lower than I'd expect. It doesn't bother me around town, since I can charge at home, but on road trips, it's a problem.
> 
> I've noticed it on other road trips, but since they happen infrequently, it's been hard to get good data. I talked to Tesla about a month ago, because I was getting about 60% of predicted range on a trip to the closest large city. I was told to precondition the battery longer due to cold weather.
> 
> Today, another road trip. Battery was preconditioned. Two legs of the trip have the following data: 1. Drive 71 miles, lost 151 miles of range. 2. Drive 126 miles, lost 233 miles of range. This means I'm getting about 50% of predicted range. Winds are 8-12 mph. Driving about 75-80 mph (speed limit is 80). A trip which normally takes about 13 hours looks like it's going to take almost 20 hours. I had to stop to charge four times to get to a place 450 miles away (total trip is about 800 miles, so there will be several more stops).
> 
> Is this normal? It seems crazy to me that a car with 330 miles of range will only go 160 miles or so. If it's normal, I need to know. If it's not normal, I need to know as well.
> 
> I would love input from more experienced Tesla owners. Thanks!


Also depends on how hot or cold it is. If you are running the A/C or Heater, you are losing miles.


----------



## garsh

Soto said:


> I notice a difference if having these two options changed: regen on to the most aggressive...


I believe the most aggressive setting is called "standard", IIRC.

Using regen to slow down instead of the brakes is very important for efficiency. It's usually not a big factor for highway driving though.


----------



## jhodgesatmb

UGADAWG said:


> New Tesla owner (MYLR, delivery end of September 2022)--I am really concerned about the range on my battery, which seems lower than I'd expect. It doesn't bother me around town, since I can charge at home, but on road trips, it's a problem.
> 
> I've noticed it on other road trips, but since they happen infrequently, it's been hard to get good data. I talked to Tesla about a month ago, because I was getting about 60% of predicted range on a trip to the closest large city. I was told to precondition the battery longer due to cold weather.
> 
> Today, another road trip. Battery was preconditioned. Two legs of the trip have the following data: 1. Drive 71 miles, lost 151 miles of range. 2. Drive 126 miles, lost 233 miles of range. This means I'm getting about 50% of predicted range. Winds are 8-12 mph. Driving about 75-80 mph (speed limit is 80). A trip which normally takes about 13 hours looks like it's going to take almost 20 hours. I had to stop to charge four times to get to a place 450 miles away (total trip is about 800 miles, so there will be several more stops).
> 
> Is this normal? It seems crazy to me that a car with 330 miles of range will only go 160 miles or so. If it's normal, I need to know. If it's not normal, I need to know as well.
> 
> I would love input from more experienced Tesla owners. Thanks!


We got our 2022 Model Y LRAWD in March. In September we drove to Yosemite from the bay area (and back) and got decent range throughout. Two weeks ago we drove to LA and back to see the Cybertruck prototype at the Petersen museum. I drove on Highway 5 from the bay area and we charged from about 20% to 95% 3 times each way. I would say that the trip was lengthened from drive a gas car by about 90 minutes because of 2 stops we might not have taken in the gas car. I think that we could have done better by not charging to 95% and there are plenty of SCs along the way. Maybe we could have dropped it to 60 minutes extra. Until BEVs have a realistic range (i.e., within the manufacturer's charge suggestions, here 20%-80%) of 400+ miles at whatever speed limit and conditions prevail, it will not be a happy experience for people that want to get some place quickly. Next month we are going to drive to Denver through Nevada, Utah, Wyoming, and Colorado and I should know better then how well the Model Y handles it.


----------



## Mad Hungarian

MartySeattle said:


> I’m a new owner as well and share your concerns…
> 
> I have a 2023 Model MYLR and it was born on 10/25/2022. Picked up the car on Nov 30, 2022 with 7 miles on the odometer and charged to 58%.
> 
> As of yesterday I have added 159 kwh and have gone 297 miles. It was at 53% charged, close to what I started with.
> 
> So that is 0.54 kWh per mile or 1.87 M/kwh. Then the range of my 74 kwh battery is 138 miles.
> 
> I drive the car like my old ICE, mix of local streets, arterials and freeways around Seattle. The temperature has been running in the 40’s. We use the climate controls as needed and keep within 5% of the speed limit(easy w/Tesla). So I do not see this aspect of my driving changing. I’ve been mostly charging at Superchargers to the 90% level, as I have a few more weeks until my electrician can get to my home 240v outlet install.
> 
> I did bring the car into Tesla, yesterday, for a few minor delivery issues and had them check the battery and charging “systems”. They basically said that it is” above spec”.
> 
> So I guess I should plan on getting a real world range of 138 miles meaning that I should plan on hitting superchargers every 100 miles or so. Maybe a little further during the warmer months. Is this what I should expect with my new car?


Something is very odd here, are you sure you're not looking at the total amount of charge that the vehicle has received since new?
The vehicle's consumption graph in the trip menu is really accurate, what is that showing you during and at the end of each trip?
Also important to note the SOC % at the start and end of each trip and then compare that to the miles covered, that generally tells a pretty accurate story of what's going on.
The ultimate test is to charge it up to 100% and go for a good long drive to get it down under 10% at destination... I have a feeling you'll easily get something much closer to 250-300 miles if driven as you describe.


----------



## Stromi

*E = ½ m v2*
Energy used is proportional to speed SQUARED.
EV range is calculated at 60 mph. You are driving at 85 mph.
The math: 85 / 60 = 1.416 times increase in speed
Energy used is 1.416 x 1.416 times more.
Energy used is 2.0 times more.
Range is cut in half.
"Physics is everything"


----------



## techzelle

I was charging to 90% from 25/30%
typically getting 130 miles range. M3 LR.
Not just speed, but how you accelerate..
Try using chill mode to help your range.


----------



## DWolvin

MartySeattle said:


> I’m a new owner as well and share your concerns…
> 
> I have a 2023 Model MYLR and it was born on 10/25/2022. Picked up the car on Nov 30, 2022 with 7 miles on the odometer and charged to 58%.
> 
> As of yesterday I have added 159 kwh and have gone 297 miles. It was at 53% charged, close to what I started with.
> 
> So that is 0.54 kWh per mile or 1.87 M/kwh. Then the range of my 74 kwh battery is 138 miles.
> 
> I drive the car like my old ICE, mix of local streets, arterials and freeways around Seattle. The temperature has been running in the 40’s. We use the climate controls as needed and keep within 5% of the speed limit(easy w/Tesla). So I do not see this aspect of my driving changing. I’ve been mostly charging at Superchargers to the 90% level, as I have a few more weeks until my electrician can get to my home 240v outlet install.
> 
> I did bring the car into Tesla, yesterday, for a few minor delivery issues and had them check the battery and charging “systems”. They basically said that it is” above spec”.
> 
> So I guess I should plan on getting a real world range of 138 miles meaning that I should plan on hitting superchargers every 100 miles or so. Maybe a little further during the warmer months. Is this what I should expect with my new car?


To run that battery down that fast I'll go out on a limb and guess you are using the performance of your Y more than a little. A decent way to think of a Tesla is that they are very efficient cars with surprising performance that eats battery charge. You have about 300 miles of potential range in a car that gets over 100 MPG (yeah, 3 gallons~ish!). If you run fast and at a quarter mile at a time, your range will be less. Preconditioning, climate, loud music all don't help, but (other than hills) most of the requirements to be close to the expected range are in the drive style.


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## onvobill

We just got our second Model Y 2 months ago. Same issue. I drive same route (Bellingham WA to Seattle) on same freeway. I think I actually drive faster most of the time compared to my wife. Here's the Wh/mi in the new car my wife drives:








Same trip and I use 265 Wh/mi. and get only a 20% hit on the milelage shown from actual performance. Only difference in cars (both long range) is new car had the 20’’ Induction Wheels vs. the standard 19" on first car. I don't know what impact that has. I'm shocked at the casual "oh, of course if you drive on a trip at freeway speeds you will see dramatically lower mileage." 
Also if Tesla people monitor these, it doesn't take a Elon Rockstar software programmer to recognize the road being traveled (try the API from google maps), the historic speed (or better the actual speed given current conditions) and give a real mileage estimate. Or monitor the driving behavior of the primary driver and adjust. Insult to injury "advertising" that we have 320 mile range that isn't tied to actual normal driving behavior. We CAN handle the truth.
We love our Teslas but this is really disappointing.


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## jtkeeney3

Climate control differences? Acceleration differences? There has to be a reason. The cars are nearly identical.


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## nom2022

So, we are having the same concerns. We received our Model Y in August 2022. We charge at home, live in Tampa FL so weather is pretty normal all the time (it has been 75-85 degrees every day this week). My wife drives it to work (6 mi each way) every weekday at normal speed (55-60 mph). We charge the car to 80% twice per week. 105 miles driving consumes 50% charge. I assumed that it is really at normal driving habit with average speed but the battery drains more than expected (we would expect at least 150 miles of driving range for 50% battery drainage). Attached is the screen shot we took from our car as the reference.


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## nom2022

BTW, we also have a BMW iX and it gives even more range than advertised even with frequently driving at much higher speed (70-75 mph) under same driving conditions.


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## jtkeeney3

nom2022 said:


> So, we are having the same concerns. We received our Model Y in August 2022. We charge at home, live in Tampa FL so weather is pretty normal all the time (it has been 75-85 degrees every day this week). My wife drives it to work (6 mi each way) every weekday at normal speed (55-60 mph). We charge the car to 80% twice per week. 105 miles driving consumes 50% charge. I assumed that it is really at normal driving habit with average speed but the battery drains more than expected (we would expect at least 150 miles of driving range for 50% battery drainage). Attached is the screen shot we took from our car as the reference.


You have to take it down to 20% or so to get the real stats.


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## Mad Hungarian

jhodgesatmb said:


> We got our 2022 Model Y LRAWD in March. In September we drove to Yosemite from the bay area (and back) and got decent range throughout. Two weeks ago we drove to LA and back to see the Cybertruck prototype at the Petersen museum. I drove on Highway 5 from the bay area and we charged from about 20% to 95% 3 times each way. I would say that the trip was lengthened from drive a gas car by about 90 minutes because of 2 stops we might not have taken in the gas car. I think that we could have done better by not charging to 95% and there are plenty of SCs along the way. Maybe we could have dropped it to 60 minutes extra. Until BEVs have a realistic range (i.e., within the manufacturer's charge suggestions, here 20%-80%) of 400+ miles at whatever speed limit and conditions prevail, it will not be a happy experience for people that want to get some place quickly. Next month we are going to drive to Denver through Nevada, Utah, Wyoming, and Colorado and I should know better then how well the Model Y handles it.


I'm very curious to know why you charged to 95% at each stop... unless you absolutely need that much to get to your destination or the next charger - which I can tell you from experience is extremely rare in most of the continental U.S. - this is really going to cost you a lot of extra time with no benefit.
The key to travelling long distances as quickly as possible in any EV is to start the trip with a full charge, run it down to as low a point as you are comfortable (usually 10% if chargers are widely present along the route), and from that point on charge only as much as you need to make it to the next one (again, with whatever extra buffer you're comfortable with), then repeat that cycle until you arrive.
As has been discussed in this thread, the king of apps for speedy travels is ABRP, it's uncanny how good it is once you've entered all your specifics. However the native Tesla one in the car's nav system is nothing to sneeze at, unless you're trying to set the absolute record for your particular trip it's still plenty quick, accurate and is super easy to use.
When I queried your trip in the web version, here's what I get...










This indicates that you should have only needed about 55 minutes of charging, and that sounds about right.
Did you program your destination in the car's nav? If so, is there any reason you decided to ignore the suggested charge times and go all the way to 95%?


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## janossz

UGADAWG said:


> New Tesla owner (MYLR, delivery end of September 2022)--I am really concerned about the range on my battery, which seems lower than I'd expect. It doesn't bother me around town, since I can charge at home, but on road trips, it's a problem.
> 
> I've noticed it on other road trips, but since they happen infrequently, it's been hard to get good data. I talked to Tesla about a month ago, because I was getting about 60% of predicted range on a trip to the closest large city. I was told to precondition the battery longer due to cold weather.
> 
> Today, another road trip. Battery was preconditioned. Two legs of the trip have the following data: 1. Drive 71 miles, lost 151 miles of range. 2. Drive 126 miles, lost 233 miles of range. This means I'm getting about 50% of predicted range. Winds are 8-12 mph. Driving about 75-80 mph (speed limit is 80). A trip which normally takes about 13 hours looks like it's going to take almost 20 hours. I had to stop to charge four times to get to a place 450 miles away (total trip is about 800 miles, so there will be several more stops).
> 
> Is this normal? It seems crazy to me that a car with 330 miles of range will only go 160 miles or so. If it's normal, I need to know. If it's not normal, I need to know as well.
> 
> I would love input from more experienced Tesla owners. Thanks!


Cruise at 70 or less and you will get great range... at 75 you range drops radically. I cruise at 65-70 and my range is about 300 miles per charge.
Also when you charge when one long trip only charge to about 85-90% saves you lots of time charging. In addition if you are say 200 miles from the next charging station consider stopping the charge when you have enough to get there with a top off. Plan your charging and save time.


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## nom2022

jtkeeney3 said:


> You have to take it down to 20% or so to get the real stats.


Frankly I don't know if it answers my inquiry. It is like reboot your computer if you have any issues. I have clearly stated that this is a constant behavior whether battery drains down to 30%, 25% or 20%.


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## laurayounai

UGADAWG said:


> New Tesla owner (MYLR, delivery end of September 2022)--I am really concerned about the range on my battery, which seems lower than I'd expect. It doesn't bother me around town, since I can charge at home, but on road trips, it's a problem.
> 
> I've noticed it on other road trips, but since they happen infrequently, it's been hard to get good data. I talked to Tesla about a month ago, because I was getting about 60% of predicted range on a trip to the closest large city. I was told to precondition the battery longer due to cold weather.
> 
> Today, another road trip. Battery was preconditioned. Two legs of the trip have the following data: 1. Drive 71 miles, lost 151 miles of range. 2. Drive 126 miles, lost 233 miles of range. This means I'm getting about 50% of predicted range. Winds are 8-12 mph. Driving about 75-80 mph (speed limit is 80). A trip which normally takes about 13 hours looks like it's going to take almost 20 hours. I had to stop to charge four times to get to a place 450 miles away (total trip is about 800 miles, so there will be several more stops).
> 
> Is this normal? It seems crazy to me that a car with 330 miles of range will only go 160 miles or so. If it's normal, I need to know. If it's not normal, I need to know as well.
> 
> I would love input from more experienced Tesla owners. Thanks!





FRC said:


> I'm closing in on 100K road trip miles, so I'll chime in. You should be able to achieve your 330 miles of rated range at a constant speed of around 50 mph on flat ground, in perfect weather, with all auxiliary power draws off. For every 5 miles over 50 you drive, expect a range loss of around 20 miles. So, at 80 mph, that range falls to 210 miles. Cold weather can easily suck 20% of your range, so 210 becomes 170. If you run the heater expect even less. So, yes, your experience is in line with expectation.
> 
> I would never recommend an EV to any traveler who takes long drives regularly where time is of the essence. But, if you road trip occasionally, the Tesla experience can be quite enjoyable with some behavioral changes. First, leave home at 100%, learn to stay within 5 mph of the speed limit, get off the interstate whenever practical, get used to more frequent stops (I've learned that this makes long distance travel MUCH more enjoyable), try to time your eating and biologic needs to coincide with charging stops, and try to never charge beyond 80% on the road (charging in the 80-100% range takes forever. Many of these suggestions require some experience to lessen range anxiety, and they require a bit of calculation rather than relying exclusively on the suggestions of the car. I rarely attempt any travel leg longer than 150 miles anymore. Not because I can't do it, but because I don't enjoy it. And I find that these methods add about 15% to my travel time. So, a 10-hour drive becomes 11.5, and that's fine with me. (GO DAWGS!!)


It all depends on the weather and how you drive and the road. If it's cold and you're traveling uphill or fast your battery will get used really fast.


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## BrianC

Just to add to the chorus a bit here (don't mean to pile on) range is very weather, altitude change and speed dependent. These same factors apply to gasoline cars and MPG achieved as well. If its cold and there's a headwind and you're doing 85mph... your range is going to be garbage. If its 75 degrees out, no wind and you're cruising at 70mph you'll get many more miles out of a charge. The numbers we're given for range are from the EPA standard test. Are they doing everything they can to get optimal numbers on that test? Of course. Every manufacturer does the same thing. 

One of the regulars on the site did the math and looking at the supercharging curve (simplifying, its 'fast at a low state of charge, slower the closer to 100% you get') vs Wh/mi at a given speed, and they concluded that 70-75mph is the sweet spot to minimize charging times while maximizing range to minimize the time of the overall trip.

Anecdotally, I took a 4000 mile trip this summer (so not cold ) that was 2000mi each way. Total elapsed trip time each way (driving and charging, not counting food stops and overnight stays) was just under 34 hours. Of that total, roughly 28 hours was spend driving and just under 6 hours was charging time. I did NOT drive 70mph, it was more like 80-85. Had I driven a bit slower, I probably could have improved those numbers. For my trip that works out to about 18% of the total trip time spent charging. Honestly for us it was great, because you have regular stops to grab a drink or a snack, stretch your legs and use the restroom. Realistically, it took longer due to things outside our control like traffic, construction, accidents, etc.

If your goal is minimizing refueling time, electric is still not there. Simply put it takes around 25 minutes to put 200 miles of range in the battery and around 50 minutes to put 300 miles in (too lazy to get actual numbers) and ~5 minutes to put 300 miles of fuel into a gas tank. I would say this is a well-known limitation in EV world, but is certainly not put on the front page of any manufacturer's brochure.


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## MartySeattle

Mad Hungarian said:


> Something is very odd here, are you sure you're not looking at the total amount of charge that the vehicle has received since new?
> The vehicle's consumption graph in the trip menu is really accurate, what is that showing you during and at the end of each trip?
> Also important to note the SOC % at the start and end of each trip and then compare that to the miles covered, that generally tells a pretty accurate story of what's going on.
> The ultimate test is to charge it up to 100% and go for a good long drive to get it down under 10% at destination... I have a feeling you'll easily get something much closer to 250-300 miles if driven as you describe.


Thanks Mad Hungarian,
The 159 kwh was the total of 5 charging sessions. One was just a 2kwh test of a J1772 public charger.

I got a multileg trip this weekend going through non-supercharger territory. 138 miles won't cut it. I hope the range is better or I'll be sitting at a public J1772 plug for a long time! Good idea to take SOC notes. I'll start that.


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## RMKYHN

The wife and I have taken many 400-500 mile trips to the Northern California Coast since taking delivery of our Model Y LR in late June of 2021. Most of these included carrying 2 60# ebikes on a hitch rack in both hot and cold weather. I'm known for a heavy right foot but for range reasons, I drive only a bit above the posted speed limits. 

At first I was afflicted with mild range anxiety but Supercharging is just so easy I don't even think about it anymore. I've never had to stop at one of California's plentiful Superchargers more than once and never for more than 25 minutes on any leg of these trips. I charge at home starting out with a full charge and usually come home with 10% or less charge on the battery. The Now You Know Youtube Channel does a great job covering Supercharger status and their "It's the Superchargers Stupid" episode really puts this "issue" in perspective. We are a 2 Tesla family and I can't see owning anything but an EV and hopefully they will all be Tesla's, Elon's mental/physical health's willing ...


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## SkipperOFMO

UGADAWG said:


> We're driving from Twin Falls, Idaho to the Central Coast of California--so much of the same stretch of I-80. Using the car's navigation. Left the house with 90% charge in Idaho. The car had us stop in Wells, NV; Elko, NV: Winnemucca, NV; Lovelock, NV; Reno, NV--will be stopping on the other side of the Tahoe Pass as well. Each time charged to 90% and arrived at the next charger with 20-30% battery left. Driving 75-80 mph. I'm not worried about the cost, I'm worried about the time spent driving. It's taking about 30% longer than usual.


How long does the car say it needs to charge to reach the next supercharger for those in-between stop and are you charging to 90% because you feel the need to? In my experience, follow what the car says to do on those in-between stops since the car will be at a lower state of charge and charge faster, so stay 15 minutes if the car says to do so, then on your last stop charge up to whatever you like unless you have the ability to charge at your destination.

I use to overcharge on my drives between Kansas City and Saint Louis where I needed to make one stop. I realized it took me longer to get home and cost more at the supercharger then it needed to since I could charge at home.


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## janossz

Funny... I drive long trips on occasion... I did a simple test drove above 70 1 charge 40 minutes (had lunch no time lost from life so to speak). Second trip same route below 70 no charging... lunch at destination.... saved 40 minutes same time as my gas car.
Typically a 10 hour road trip at 70 averages about 50-55 mph on the day. Yes those numbers can be pushed... but why?


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## RMKYHN

UGADAWG said:


> New Tesla owner (MYLR, delivery end of September 2022)--I am really concerned about the range on my battery, which seems lower than I'd expect. It doesn't bother me around town, since I can charge at home, but on road trips, it's a problem.
> 
> I've noticed it on other road trips, but since they happen infrequently, it's been hard to get good data. I talked to Tesla about a month ago, because I was getting about 60% of predicted range on a trip to the closest large city. I was told to precondition the battery longer due to cold weather.
> 
> Today, another road trip. Battery was preconditioned. Two legs of the trip have the following data: 1. Drive 71 miles, lost 151 miles of range. 2. Drive 126 miles, lost 233 miles of range. This means I'm getting about 50% of predicted range. Winds are 8-12 mph. Driving about 75-80 mph (speed limit is 80). A trip which normally takes about 13 hours looks like it's going to take almost 20 hours. I had to stop to charge four times to get to a place 450 miles away (total trip is about 800 miles, so there will be several more stops).
> 
> Is this normal? It seems crazy to me that a car with 330 miles of range will only go 160 miles or so. If it's normal, I need to know. If it's not normal, I need to know as well.
> 
> I would love input from more experienced Tesla owners. Thanks!


You need to watch some Youtube road trip videos. EVDAVE has some great ones and he clearly explains how to and when to charge to get the best out of your Model Y LR's range and total travel time on a road trip. One obvious "trick" is to not blindly accept the cars recommended charge stops. At this point, some of us are actually smarter than our cars  , EVDAVE is folksy/smart and an honest broker of EV information. He has several Tesla's and bought a Mach E that he quickly sold due to it lack of functional utility.

BTW, I have driven 240 miles in my 2021 MYLR with 120#'s of ebikes on a hitch rack going 70 mph on mostly highway roads. I left with 98% battery on departure (average was probably 65) and arrived with 2% but I made it non-stop. The more common trip would be about the same distance, starting at high 90's charge level with 1 15-20 minute stop at a 250kW Supercharger arriving at my destination with 20% on the battery. Same result for the return trip. The key is to not charge to more than 80% (less is better) on any Supercharger stop. More stops adding 100-150 miles of projected range is better than one stop going 10% - 90% which will in some cases take 30 minutes+. Too many stops is another way to lengthen your travel time. 

Consider it EV science which is much easier than rocket science.


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## janossz

I cruise at 65 to 70... I get an easy 250 to 290 per charge on a road trip I recharge at superchargers to 80-85% for optimum charge to time ratio.... if I go 70 plus... I recharge after about 125 miles.... I recondition once every 2 months. Battery below 20% do not recharge for at least 12 hours... then charge to 100% and immediately drive off 20% of that charge.


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## buuy2023

UGADAWG said:


> New Tesla owner (MYLR, delivery end of September 2022)--I am really concerned about the range on my battery, which seems lower than I'd expect. It doesn't bother me around town, since I can charge at home, but on road trips, it's a problem.
> 
> I've noticed it on other road trips, but since they happen infrequently, it's been hard to get good data. I talked to Tesla about a month ago, because I was getting about 60% of predicted range on a trip to the closest large city. I was told to precondition the battery longer due to cold weather.
> 
> Today, another road trip. Battery was preconditioned. Two legs of the trip have the following data: 1. Drive 71 miles, lost 151 miles of range. 2. Drive 126 miles, lost 233 miles of range. This means I'm getting about 50% of predicted range. Winds are 8-12 mph. Driving about 75-80 mph (speed limit is 80). A trip which normally takes about 13 hours looks like it's going to take almost 20 hours. I had to stop to charge four times to get to a place 450 miles away (total trip is about 800 miles, so there will be several more stops).
> 
> Is this normal? It seems crazy to me that a car with 330 miles of range will only go 160 miles or so. If it's normal, I need to know. If it's not normal, I need to know as well.
> 
> I would love input from more experienced Tesla owners. Thanks!


What was the temperature? I just got back from a 2,000 mile round trip Texas to Florida. 2023 model. Mostly flat, weather between 45-70 degrees, going 75 mph. I averaged about 270 miles of range


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