# VW ID.4



## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Official reveal - 9/23/2020 - 11:00 AM EST - YouTube.com/vw

Notes of interest - 2WD made before AWD, imported for now, likely will be built in the US by 2022.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

Until the charging infrastructure in the US improves, I cannot realistically consider a different EV brand than Tesla. Sad to say. Friend of mine just swapped his M3P for a Taycan Turbo and using EA is an absolute NIGHTMARE.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Needsdecaf said:


> Until the charging infrastructure in the US improves, I cannot realistically consider a different EV brand than Tesla. Sad to say. Friend of mine just swapped his M3P for a Taycan Turbo and using EA is an absolute NIGHTMARE.


I don't disagree, especially the debacle over Labor day weekend when EA took a whole string of chargers offline for maintenace with no warning.

I will say this however, as many people do travel and road trip in their cars daily, I figure it is a small percentage still of EV owners or potential owners. We've likely seen an uptick this summer with Covid, but so many people just fly or still rent cars for trips to keep miles off of their own. When they see how cheap maintenance is, how cheap electricity is and have the ability to charge at home most should not shy away from these cars as most won't truly need the charging network, when they do though they won't find anything that matches Tesla.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

Yeah, if you have home charging, you can get away with 90% plus of your use, likely. Especially if you have a multiple car household. I don't NEED to take my Tesla to Dallas, I could (and have) taken my wife's car on my trips up there. But Autopilot reduces my driving fatigue so I like taking it when I can, even accounting for 30 minutes of charging twice per trip. 

So could I get something like this or a Polestar or an ETron? Sure. But it would be limiting and frustrating. I'm not sure at this point I'd feel comfortable running it up there for fear I couldn't find an EA charger that worked!


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## Dogwhistle (Jul 2, 2017)

Looking forward to this presentation. It’s between this and the Volvo XC40 P8 Recharge for our “other” car. Have a deposit on the Volvo already, might throw something down on the VW as well, and see how things unfold.


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## Devons76 (Nov 7, 2020)

I'm intrigued by the ID.4. I don't own nor have I driven nor even been in a single EV to date. My problem with the Big Dog (Tesla) has always been price. I'm not in the market for a BMW or Mercedes. More of a Ford/Nissan/Toyota kind of person. If this VW can be had for $20K less, it's much more appealing to me. Charging network is crap in Canada across the board, particularly in West-central. Decent Tesla network, but only if you stay on the Trans Canada highway. If I want to go up to Northern Saskatchewan, it's a crapshoot in any EV. All that said, 95% of all my driving is typically within 150KM of home.


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## bwilson4web (Mar 4, 2019)

Not impressed:









Bob Wilson


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## AmokTime (Mar 15, 2020)

I just priced an ID4. Essentially the same range and price as a M3 SR+ - the VW is actually a couple thousand more, though it qualifies for the federal tax credit. The net result is the VW is about $5K less. I also priced a Mach-e and it was about $45K for the lowest trim and smallest battery equipped similarly to the M3SR+. Including the federal tax credit that makes the Mach-e about the same price as an SR+. $37K - $42K seems to be the sweet spot for new entries to the EV market.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

AmokTime said:


> though it qualifies for the federal tax credit.


It's likely that all EVs will soon qualify for a federal tax credit. I would hold off on any purchases until that becomes more clear.


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## AmokTime (Mar 15, 2020)

Unfortunately, we bought our second M3 during what will be known as the EV tax credit “notch.”


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## Taney71 (Dec 28, 2018)

So I've made the decision to get an ID.4. I would have loved to have purchased a Model Y but the timing, price, and my wife's preferences won out in the end. The ID.4 is a really nice car, especially for families that don't really need the Tesla charging infrastructure.


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## Taney71 (Dec 28, 2018)

AmokTime said:


> I just priced an ID4. Essentially the same range and price as a M3 SR+ - the VW is actually a couple thousand more, though it qualifies for the federal tax credit. The net result is the VW is about $5K less. I also priced a Mach-e and it was about $45K for the lowest trim and smallest battery equipped similarly to the M3SR+. Including the federal tax credit that makes the Mach-e about the same price as an SR+. $37K - $42K seems to be the sweet spot for new entries to the EV market.


I think the ID.4 is more in competition with the Model Y since it is a small SUV compared to a small SUV. If you compare a FE ID.4 at about $48,000 with destination fees, sales tax, etc. to the AWD Model Y which is about $58,000 with destination fees, sales tax, etc. then you get a $10k price difference not including the federal tax rebate. For me, the over $17k in price difference was too hard to pass up the ID.4, especially seeing its my wife's car and she really loves the look of the VW.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Taney71 said:


> I think the ID.4 is more in competition with the Model Y since it is a small SUV compared to a small SUV. If you compare a FE ID.4 at about $48,000 with destination fees, sales tax, etc. to the AWD Model Y which is about $58,000 with destination fees, sales tax, etc. then you get a $10k price difference not including the federal tax rebate. For me, the over $17k in price difference was too hard to pass up the ID.4, especially seeing its my wife's car and she really loves the look of the VW.


The ID4 Pro S (closest features to a Tesla) RWD goes for $45k + TTL. Model Y SR RWD is $40k +TTL. Even with the $7.5k federal credit that comes out to only $2.5k diff. Not sure how you got $17k.


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## Taney71 (Dec 28, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> The ID4 Pro S (closest features to a Tesla) RWD goes for $45k + TTL. Model Y SR RWD is $40k +TTL. Even with the $7.5k federal credit that comes out to only $2.5k diff. Not sure how you got $17k.


ID.4 First Edition (blue) -- $45,425.00 with the destination & doc fees at $1,460.00 + state sales taxes $2,738.00 = $48,428.00
Model Y AWD (with tow hitch and red--no other upgrades) --- $53,990.00 + destination (doc fees not included) $1,200.00 + state sales taxes $3,311.00 = $58,501.00

That's a $10k difference. You add the $7,500 federal rebate that gets you a $17k difference.

I didn't price the difference on the Model Y SR RWD cause it really doesn't exist anymore for purchasing.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Taney71 said:


> ID.4 First Edition (blue) -- $45,425.00 with the destination & doc fees at $1,460.00 + state sales taxes $2,738.00 = $48,428.00
> Model Y AWD (with tow hitch and red--no other upgrades) --- $53,990.00 + destination (doc fees not included) $1,200.00 + state sales taxes $3,311.00 = $58,501.00
> 
> That's a $10k difference. You add the $7,500 federal rebate that gets you a $17k difference.
> ...


That's not a fair comparison. The SR is closer in range to the ID4 and is also RWD which goes for $44k (after adding hitch, blue color to match the ID4, and 20" wheels). TTL will all be similar since base price is the same. Only savings would be the tax rebate (and there's already talk of the rebate potentially going back for Tesla's).


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## bwilson4web (Mar 4, 2019)

First off, you can only buy what is available and in March 2019, the Std Rng Plus Model 3 was pretty much the market leader. Hyundai Ioniq had good efficiency but half the range and half the power. In contrast, the Tesla had a SuperCharger network that dominated the CCS-1 networks. The right choice two years ago may not be the right choice today, or tomorrow.

Today there are choices even if I personally find some unappealing. Regardless, sell them all and good luck.

Bob Wilson


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

I think those of you comparing missed possibly the most important part by far:



Taney71 said:


> So I've made the decision to get an ID.4. I would have loved to have purchased a Model Y but the timing, price, *and my wife's preferences* won out in the end. The ID.4 is a really nice car, especially for families that don't really need the Tesla charging infrastructure.


Buy what you like and enjoy it. You're still part of the EV revolution!


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## Taney71 (Dec 28, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> That's not a fair comparison. The SR is closer in range to the ID4 and is also RWD which goes for $44k (after adding hitch, blue color to match the ID4, and 20" wheels). TTL will all be similar since base price is the same. Only savings would be the tax rebate (and there's already talk of the rebate potentially going back for Tesla's).


I agree but I'm not trying to make a fair comparison. I'm just giving you the pricing numbers that helped me make my final determination. My family's decision was between the Model Y and ID.4. In terms of what we need both are small SUVs which is what we want. We also wanted the blue color with a tow hitch.

For both vehicles the options are First Edition (ID.4) and the AWD Model Y. It's what we can purchase today. Sure, the Model Y is AWD whereas the ID.4 is RWD. The range is different; charging speed; etc. but at the end of the day they are both small SUVs. The price difference certainly should factor into anyone's buying decision and it did with mine. I really wanted the Model Y but could not justify it to my wife since this is her car and she likes the ID.4. If the price was closer I could likely have convinced her because of the AWD and range differences. I hope that helps explain my thinking.


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## Taney71 (Dec 28, 2018)

JasonF said:


> I think those of you comparing missed possibly the most important part by far:
> 
> Buy what you like and enjoy it. You're still part of the EV revolution!


Thanks. Yes, my wife has the final say. I'm just really there to provide her with the information because she hates trying to find the information online to compare cars. I put everything in a spread sheet and give her a full presentation. I feel like I'm presenting to my work colleagues that way but this stuff is more fun than work.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

Taney71 said:


> Thanks. Yes, my wife has the final say. I'm just really there to provide her with the information because she hates trying to find the information online to compare cars. I put everything in a spread sheet and give her a full presentation. I feel like I'm presenting to my work colleagues that way but this stuff is more fun than work.


Your wife may be the first one in history who actually WANTS the "sales pitch".


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Taney71 said:


> I agree but I'm not trying to make a fair comparison. I'm just giving you the pricing numbers that helped me make my final determination. My family's decision was between the Model Y and ID.4. In terms of what we need both are small SUVs which is what we want. We also wanted the blue color with a tow hitch.
> 
> For both vehicles the options are First Edition (ID.4) and the AWD Model Y. It's what we can purchase today. Sure, the Model Y is AWD whereas the ID.4 is RWD. The range is different; charging speed; etc. but at the end of the day they are both small SUVs. The price difference certainly should factor into anyone's buying decision and it did with mine. I really wanted the Model Y but could not justify it to my wife since this is her car and she likes the ID.4. If the price was closer I could likely have convinced her because of the AWD and range differences. I hope that helps explain my thinking.


I only brought up the SR to make it a fair comparison in case others were more focused on a dollar for dollar and feature to feature comparison. Personal (and more importantly, wife's) choice always takes precedent.

Personally, MY next car will be a C8 vette even though another Tesla (or really ANY 4 door car) would be better for the family.


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## Taney71 (Dec 28, 2018)

Needsdecaf said:


> Your wife may be the first one in history who actually WANTS the "sales pitch".


Lol. Yeah, I might be overselling her desire to hear me talk about cars.


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

I saw an ID4 for the first time today, and I had a good hard look as I was walking and it was stopped at a light. Really impressed, it looks great, and just the right size. Well done VW. Out of Spec has been thrilled with it as well.


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## Taney71 (Dec 28, 2018)

JWardell said:


> I saw an ID4 for the first time today, and I had a good hard look as I was walking and it was stopped at a light. Really impressed, it looks great, and just the right size. Well done VW. Out of Spec has been thrilled with it as well.


Agreed. I love the looks of it as well.

We've had the ID.4 for two months now. It really is a very good small SUV EV. I'm still not happy that it doesn't have one petal driving but its not my car and my wife likes it the way it is. From my perspective, it is a great vehicle to get ICE drivers who are on the fence to try an EV.


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## Derik (Jul 26, 2017)

I was standing in front of my son's friend's house the other day and I heard that electric motor noise. Normally I look up and see a Model 3, Y, or even some random hybrid driving around. To my shock it was a VW this time. I did my normally staring at and and it was the ID.4! First one I've seen anywhere. Looked pretty good!


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

Derik said:


> I was standing in front of my son's friend's house the other day and I heard that electric motor noise. Normally I look up and see a Model 3, Y, or even some random hybrid driving around. To my shock it was a VW this time. I did my normally staring at and and it was the ID.4! First one I've seen anywhere. Looked pretty good!


Have seen one in traffic and multiple on transport trucks. No doubt the state of the auto market in general is slowing down the roll out of these cars.


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## StevieC (Jun 1, 2021)

I drove an ID4 before I ordered my M3LR. What you need to remember is that EV drivers aren’t their target market, the HRV and RAV4 shopper is. I was driving an i3 at the time, and the ID4 had none of the fun my i3 was to drive. It won’t intimidate the RAV4 or HRV owner with typical EV acceleration, one pedal driving, or coming to a stop on its own. It’s very smooth, quiet, and a nice driving car, that creeps at 3 mph, like an ICE car. It was a no brainer to order the Model 3!


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

StevieC said:


> I drove an ID4 before I ordered my M3LR. What you need to remember is that EV drivers aren't their target market, the HRV and RAV4 shopper is. I was driving an i3 at the time, and the ID4 had none of the fun my i3 was to drive. It won't intimidate the RAV4 or HRV owner with typical EV acceleration, one pedal driving, or coming to a stop on its own. It's very smooth, quiet, and a nice driving car, that creeps at 3 mph, like an ICE car. It was a no brainer to order the Model 3!


You bring up a good point.

I am switching jobs which means I'll be driving a lot, lot less. I'm contemplating getting rid of the Model 3 and my 911 weekend car and rolling it into a Taycan.

Drove a 4S and a Turbo yesterday. No doubt, they are awesome cars. But...they are built to feel more like ICE cars. They're big, heavy, and while they do great times, they just feel a bit wooden and aloof. It took the Turbo to get close to the responsiveness of my M3P. But it weighs a good 1,000 lbs less, has a quicker steering rack and just feels more like an EV. Stonger regen, no creep, one pedal driving. Driving a halfway car is somewhat unsatisfying once you've gotten used to a full fat EV.


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

Needsdecaf said:


> Drove a 4S and a Turbo yesterday. No doubt, they are awesome cars. But...they are built to feel more like ICE cars. They're big, heavy, and while they do great times, they just feel a bit wooden and aloof. It took the Turbo to get close to the responsiveness of my M3P. But it weighs a good 1,000 lbs less, has a quicker steering rack and just feels more like an EV. Stonger regen, no creep, one pedal driving. Driving a halfway car is somewhat unsatisfying once you've gotten used to a full fat EV.


Ironically while I was at the Tesla Service Center earlier this week, someone arrived in a Porsche Taycan Turbo to test drive a Model X (I don't know if it was a Plaid, I wasn't close enough). I assume that would have been their 2nd car, I can't imagine them trading in a Taycan so soon.

Anyway, nice looking car, but I have a really strong hatred for the fake engine noises. They sound fake, like they come from a cheap speaker, and they even have a slight delay responding to acceleration.


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## jsmay311 (Oct 2, 2017)

Taney71 said:


> I'm still not happy that it doesn't have one petal driving but its not my car and my wife likes it the way it is.


Re: regen and one-pedal driving…

It appears the regen strategy in the ID.4 is the same as the Volt: minimal regen when lifting of the accelerator in "D", ~50% of max regen when lifting of the accelerator in "L" (or "B", as VW calls it), and max regen only when pressing the brake pedal (and you have to press the brake to come to a complete stop).

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...e-id-4-electric-suv-gets-smart-about-coasting
Having owned a Volt, and then Model 3 *before* it could regen to a stop, and now a Model 3 *after* it could regen to a stop, I do prefer being able to regen to a full stop. But before the Model 3 acquired that ability, I had a slight preference for the Volt's regen strategy. Which is all just to say, I don't think it's a big tradeoff. And it can benefit drivers (like the aforementioned wife) who prefer a more traditional feel that's not too different from an ICE vehicle.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

JasonF said:


> Ironically while I was at the Tesla Service Center earlier this week, someone arrived in a Porsche Taycan Turbo to test drive a Model X (I don't know if it was a Plaid, I wasn't close enough). I assume that would have been their 2nd car, I can't imagine them trading in a Taycan so soon.
> 
> Anyway, nice looking car, but I have a really strong hatred for the fake engine noises. They sound fake, like they come from a cheap speaker, and they even have a slight delay responding to acceleration.


The fake engine noise is optional, and also can be turned off. Also, there's zero delay.

I definitely wouldn't spend the money.

Finally, that X was most definitely not a Plaid.


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

Needsdecaf said:


> The fake engine noise is optional, and also can be turned off. Also, there's zero delay.


I don't know about inside the car, because I was outside. But this particular Taycan was stopping and going because the parking lot at the Service Center is a minefield - and the sound was always a fraction of a second behind between the stops and starts. Maybe it's designed to work better for actually moving on open roads. At any rate, if I had one I'd probably be annoyed enough to keep it turned off all the time.


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## StevieC (Jun 1, 2021)

The guy may be trading his Taycan because the non-Tesla charging networks can be problematic.


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