# Understanding AP capability on a used Model S



## rkww

Looking for help to better understand AP 

I am shopping for a pre-owned Model S and want to better understand the AutoPilot capability that I will get and any restrictions on availability/applicability of future software upgrades. And acceptance of the coming upgraded new processing chip.

I am struggling to understand the teminology of AP1, AP2, enhanced AP, Navigate on AP and FSD, and what I would/could have with a Model S produced in various years. 

And to be clear about vehicle hardware capability and any limitations on software upgrades.

After what production date was the Model S hardware upgraded to match the current Model 3 hardware? 

If I buy a Model S that pre-dates the hardware upgrade, how does that limit AP operations?

Would I get or could I upgrade (with a 2015/2016/2017 Model S) to have Navigate on AP (freeway only)? I am not concerned about FSD.

Thank you
Rob
rkww



At this


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## Frully

Hi rkww...welcome to the forum!

The ballpark numbers I've found are

AP2 hardware is 
40x more computationally powerful than AP1
Has more cameras/focal lengths

AP3 hardware is 'significantly more gooder' but hard to make a quantifiable statement about something that doesn't exist yet.

What I understand about it is AP1 is good for lane-keeping on minor bend roads with little elevation change. It doesn't handle other traffic gracefully. You are practically locked in with AP1 hardware at this point. It can get new software features or upgrades but that's a diminishing return now that they're actively programming for the new hardware. People describe AP1 as hunting more frequently since it has limited information to work off of.

It's hard to say exactly what you would be happy with in regard to performance per dollar. I'm ONLY familiar with my AP2.5 model 3 and it's gone from a bit shaky to 'often better than me' in 6 months. Going back to hardware limitations - My AP can handle dimly lit lane lines in snowy mountain roads because the additional down-facing side cameras can aide the main camera's understanding of the whole scene.


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## Michael Russo

In a nutshell, AP1, AP2.0, AP2.5... typically refer to the evolution of the enabling hardware. AP1 only came with 2 cameras, from late 2014 to 2H16, when at the time of the moustache facelift, they added 6 more cameras for a total of 8. Believe the computer was changed also as was again the case for AP2.5 (as of mid 2018, more or less?). If you see references to HW3 (which could then also be named AP3.0), that again will apply to yet another future computer upgrade that will be necessary for the most advanced upcoming FSD fearures.

Autopilot software (sw) has kept evolving and will continue to evolve. Enhanced AutoPilot describes the functionalities associated with AP2.0 that over time got better and better, from being originally worse than that of AP1, to gradually be at par and then surpass the latter. One of the most recent sw improvement was Navigate on AutoPilot (or NoA), which allows for automatic lane change on highways when you get closer to a slower car (up to now requiring confirmation with the turn signal lever if I'm not mistaken - we don't have it in Europe yet...) as well as automotive on- and off-ramp driven when nav is on. You can't get NoA with older AP1 cars.

For new cars going forward - which does not seem be your plan - EAP is now AP afternoon as some of the previous feature of EAP (NoA, Autopark and Summon) are now included in the FSD suite.

Hope this helps, trust @TrevP or others may build or edit as needed.

Key therefore if you are looking to a used S will be exactly what specific Autopilot functionalities come with the car. With very few exceptions, pre-facelift cars may come with AP1 yet not the very first ones 2012-mid14.

Good luck!


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## Bigriver

rkww said:


> Looking for help to better understand AP
> 
> I am shopping for a pre-owned Model S and want to better understand the AutoPilot capability that I will get and any restrictions on availability/applicability of future software upgrades. And acceptance of the coming upgraded new processing chip.
> 
> I am struggling to understand the teminology of AP1, AP2, enhanced AP, Navigate on AP and FSD, and what I would/could have with a Model S produced in various years.
> 
> And to be clear about vehicle hardware capability and any limitations on software upgrades.
> 
> After what production date was the Model S hardware upgraded to match the current Model 3 hardware?
> 
> If I buy a Model S that pre-dates the hardware upgrade, how does that limit AP operations?
> 
> Would I get or could I upgrade (with a 2015/2016/2017 Model S) to have Navigate on AP (freeway only)? I am not concerned about FSD.
> 
> Thank you
> Rob
> rkww
> 
> At this


Yeah, everything @Michael Russo just typed, while I was typing! Here's just a few additional thoughts:

It is my understanding that once a car has EAP or also FSD that it is never removed from the car. So as you shop the secondary market, check to see what it has. And Tesla has recently reduced the price to add the software options to existing cars. Hopefully the price reduction isn't just for original owners.

Over the air updates that get released sometimes are limited to the newer AP hardware. I would tend to recommend looking for AP2.5 for this reason. (Also if you get FSD Elon has said 2.5 hardware will be upgraded to 3.0 for free. It is to have a much faster processor.) But older Tesla's have free supercharging that stays for the life of the car (can change owners) so that could be of interest, depending on your situation.

One thing to be aware of is that Tesla changes their car configurations often. So for example, when comparing 2 used model S's, they might both say they have a premium package but those packages might contain different items.

(Edit: AP2.5 was introduced August 2017.)


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## rkww

Frully said:


> Hi rkww...welcome to the forum!
> 
> The ballpark numbers I've found are
> 
> AP2 hardware is
> 40x more computationally powerful than AP1
> Has more cameras/focal lengths
> 
> AP3 hardware is 'significantly more gooder' but hard to make a quantifiable statement about something that doesn't exist yet.
> 
> What I understand about it is AP1 is good for lane-keeping on minor bend roads with little elevation change. It doesn't handle other traffic gracefully. You are practically locked in with AP1 hardware at this point. It can get new software features or upgrades but that's a diminishing return now that they're actively programming for the new hardware. People describe AP1 as hunting more frequently since it has limited information to work off of.
> 
> It's hard to say exactly what you would be happy with in regard to performance per dollar. I'm ONLY familiar with my AP2.5 model 3 and it's gone from a bit shaky to 'often better than me' in 6 months. Going back to hardware limitations - My AP can handle dimly lit lane lines in snowy mountain roads because the additional down-facing side cameras can aide the main camera's understanding of the whole scene.


Thanks Frully

Rob
Toronto
(rkww)


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## rkww

Michael Russo said:


> In a nutshell, AP1, AP2.0, AP2.5... typically refer to the evolution of the enabling hardware. AP1 only came with 2 cameras, from late 2014 to 2H16, when at the time of the moustache facelift, they added 6 more cameras for a total of 8. Believe the computer was changed also as was again the case for AP2.5 (as of mid 2018, more or less?). If you see references to HW3 (which could then also be named AP3.0), that again will apply to yet another future computer upgrade that will be necessary for the most advanced upcoming FSD fearures.
> 
> Autopilot software (sw) has kept evolving and will continue to evolve. Enhanced AutoPilot describes the functionalities associated with AP2.0 that over time got better and better, from being originally worse than that of AP1, to gradually be at par and then surpass the latter. One of the most recent sw improvement was Navigate on AutoPilot (or NoA), which allows for automatic lane change on highways when you get closer to a slower car (up to now requiring confirmation with the turn signal lever if I'm not mistaken - we don't have it in Europe yet...) as well as automotive on- and off-ramp driven when nav is on. You can't get NoA with older AP1 cars.
> 
> For new cars going forward - which does not seem be your plan - EAP is now AP afternoon as some of the previous feature of EAP (NoA, Autopark and Summon) are now included in the FSD suite.
> 
> Hope this helps, trust @TrevP or others may build or edit as needed.
> 
> Key therefore if you are looking to a used S will be exactly what specific Autopilot functionalities come with the car. With very few exceptions, pre-facelift cars may come with AP1 yet not the very first ones 2012-mid14.
> 
> Good luck!


Thanks Michael. Lots to think about!

Rob 
Toronto
(rkww)


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## rkww

Bigriver said:


> Yeah, everything @Michael Russo just typed, while I was typing! Here's just a few additional thoughts:
> 
> It is my understanding that once a car has EAP or also FSD that it is never removed from the car. So as you shop the secondary market, check to see what it has. And Tesla has recently reduced the price to add the software options to existing cars. Hopefully the price reduction isn't just for original owners.
> 
> Over the air updates that get released sometimes are limited to the newer AP hardware. I would tend to recommend looking for AP2.5 for this reason. (Also if you get FSD Elon has said 2.5 hardware will be upgraded to 3.0 for free. It is to have a much faster processor.) But older Tesla's have free supercharging that stays for the life of the car (can change owners) so that could be of interest, depending on your situation.
> 
> One thing to be aware of is that Tesla changes their car configurations often. So for example, when comparing 2 used model S's, they might both say they have a premium package but those packages might contain different items.
> 
> (Edit: AP2.5 was introduced August 2017.)


Thanks BigRiver

Rob 
Toronto 
(rkww)


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