# US Tax Form 8936 - Question on how to apply the $7500 tax credit



## stlgrym3 (Nov 4, 2018)

I took delivery of my Model 3 last week, so I’m eligible for the $7500 tax credit. Have a few questions before I go ask my accountant:

1. I will file my 2018 income tax early 2019, this tax credit is for FY 2018 correct?

2. Do I need to fill out any forms or just show accountant my MVPA and they will handle the rest?

3. I’ve read the $7500 tax credit can only go toward your tax liability. I don’t owe IRS any money, in fact every year I’m pretty much break even, in my case do I still get the $7500 credit?


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## judomc (Jun 11, 2018)

As I understand it:

1. Yes this would be for your FY2018 Taxes reported next year.
2. I'm not sure as I will be doing this next year as well! ^5
3. Yes it goes towards your tax liability. As I understand it, the credit is applied to your actual taxes due for the year and then you account for the taxes actually paid. If the tax tables say you would owe more than 7500 for the year then the full credit should apply for you. If that is the case and you typically come out even at tax time, you will likely get all/most of that 7500 as a refund because you would have basically overpaid by that amount. (again provided you actually had a tax liability of >7500) 

I'm not an accountant so this is just my understanding of how it should go.


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## Love (Sep 13, 2017)

stlgrym3 said:


> I took delivery of my Model 3 last week, so I'm eligible for the $7500 tax credit. Have a few questions before I go ask my accountant:
> 
> 1. I will file my 2018 income tax early 2019, this tax credit is for FY 2018 correct?
> 
> ...


1. Correct
2. My wife's car arrived in September 2017 and our accountant new which form to fill out (in 2018) and...
3. My wife got a check for the $7500 (minus some small amount we owed as we do our best to break even as well).

Looking forward to my check this upcoming tax season!


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## MSM3 (Aug 5, 2018)

1. The credit will apply towards 2018 tax year.
2. Provide your tax professional a copy of your MVPA and they should handle the rest.
3. The $7500 tax credit reduces your tax liability, it doesn't depend on whether you get a refund or not. Talk to your tax professional and he/she can advise you on how to better take advantage of the tax credit.


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## stlgrym3 (Nov 4, 2018)

so I don’t have to go to the link provided by Tesla to download the form and fill it out? Just give my MVPA to my accountant will do? That’s awesome. I’m looking forward to that $7500 check as well as I can almost guarantee I will break even again for FY income tax.


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

stlgrym3 said:


> I took delivery of my Model 3 last week, so I'm eligible for the $7500 tax credit. Have a few questions before I go ask my accountant:
> 
> 1. I will file my 2018 income tax early 2019, this tax credit is for FY 2018 correct?
> 
> ...


1. Yes

2. Your accountant needs to know year, make, model, VIN and date the vehicle was placed in service (delivery date). So MVPA is probably sufficient, though I haven't looked at it in some time.

3. Tax liability is not your refund, nor is it the amount of the check you write at tax time. It's your total tax liability after considering income and deductions. On the 2017 Form 1040, this would be line 47.

Note: Tax rates and deductions/exemptions have changed for 2018, so your tax situation is likely to be somewhat different than in previous years. If you have any credits after line 47, the EV credit could affect your ability to fully take those credits. This is not tax advice; consult a tax professional.


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

stlgrym3 said:


> so I don't have to go to the link provided by Tesla to download the form and fill it out? Just give my MVPA to my accountant will do? That's awesome. I'm looking forward to that $7500 check as well as I can almost guarantee I will break even again for FY income tax.


Form 8936 will be automatically produced in any tax software package. You just need to supply the amounts, dates, and other data to fill it in. I don't think the manufacturer's certification will be needed, at least not in 2018.


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## Ed Woodrick (May 26, 2018)

stlgrym3 said:


> so I don't have to go to the link provided by Tesla to download the form and fill it out? Just give my MVPA to my accountant will do? That's awesome. I'm looking forward to that $7500 check as well as I can almost guarantee I will break even again for FY income tax.


You really don't need anything, unless you get called to an audit. Most everyone files electronic these days


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

Ed Woodrick said:


> You really don't need anything, unless you get called to an audit. Most everyone files electronic these days


Not supplying the information needed for Form 8936, and then claiming the credit, would be the quick way to get an audit by mail.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

As a CPA, let me say 1) See post 4 above, it's spot-on 2) If there is any possibility that your total tax liability(before subtracting any pre-payments or credits) will be less than $7,500(either you can't afford the model3 you're driving or you're doing some extremely creative tax accounting) consult a CPA before 12/31. There may be ways to increase this year's total tax, and decrease next year's, so that you can utilize the entire credit. Never let the Feds keep money that could be yours. Tax avoidance is 100% legal. Tax evasion?? Not so much!!


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## stlgrym3 (Nov 4, 2018)

just saw Autoblog article on Tesla and GM are joint force in fight to lift the EV tax credit cap. it says Tesla had already reached the 200,000 vehicle sold cap. i took delivery beginning of November, will i still get that $7500?


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

stlgrym3 said:


> just saw Autoblog article on Tesla and GM are joint force in fight to lift the EV tax credit cap. it says Tesla had already reached the 200,000 vehicle sold cap. i took delivery beginning of November, will i still get that $7500?


the full credit is available for those (with the needed tax liability) who have cars delivered thru December 2018. Then for 6 months is is $3750. Then the following 6 months $1875


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## stlgrym3 (Nov 4, 2018)

MelindaV said:


> the full credit is available for those (with the needed tax liability) who have cars delivered thru December 2018. Then for 6 months is is $3750. Then the following 6 months $1875


so that holds true even after Tesla had passed the 200,000 threshold?


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

stlgrym3 said:


> so that holds true even after Tesla had passed the 200,000 threshold?


That holds true *because* Tesla hit the 200,000 threshold in July 2018.


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

stlgrym3 said:


> so that holds true even after Tesla had passed the 200,000 threshold?


This may help: https://insideevs.com/top-6-automakers-200000-federal-tax-credit-limit/.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Going to start a thread about the US Federal Tax Form 8936. I think we'll have just a little interest in this form this year. I'll go on record that I am no tax or accounting professional and you should take any and all advice here as friendly conversation from fellow forum members. If you have doubt or questions please make sure you've consulted a tax professional. Personally I use TurboTax for my taxes, so I'll be working through their procedures and waiting for their updated and final form for filing.

Please post only factual information and try to keep the conversation on topic, provide links when appropriate. I don't think this is complicated, but there are literally hundreds of conversations and much confusion over how the form and tax credit works.

I'll keep this first post updated with links to the IRS web site for the form, but as of this time, their current link takes you to the 2017 form. This is a draft form for 2018.

2018 form 8936 - DRAFT only at this point - https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-dft/i8936--dft.pdf


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## FF35 (Jul 13, 2018)

Last year Turbo tax was really late with 8936. I went to H&R Block on-line and they only had a draft version. I used that and didn’t have a problem. The tax credit is what it is so even if I was to get audited, nothing would change and will be doing the same thing this year if needed.


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

GDN said:


> Going to start a thread about the US Federal Tax Form 8936. I think we'll have just a little interest in this form this year. I'll go on record that I am no tax or accounting professional and you should take any and all advice here as friendly conversation from fellow forum members. If you have doubt or questions please make sure you've consulted a tax professional. Personally I use TurboTax for my taxes, so I'll be working through their procedures and waiting for their updated and final form for filing.
> 
> Please post only factual information and try to keep the conversation on topic, provide links when appropriate. I don't think this is complicated, but there are literally hundreds of conversations and much confusion over how the form and tax credit works.
> 
> ...


Very informative: Instructions, Line 4b (page 3 of 4).


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

FF35 said:


> Last year Turbo tax was really late with 8936. I went to H&R Block on-line and they only had a draft version. I used that and didn't have a problem. The tax credit is what it is so even if I was to get audited, nothing would change and will be doing the same thing this year if needed.


It wasn't just Turbo Tax who was late with the form last year. The IRS dragged their feet in getting it finalized. I presumed that was because of the turmoil surrounding all the last minute tax law changes last year that actually extended into early 2018. IRS didn't finalize it (for 2017) until late February 2018, and it took awhile for it to get implemented into any electronic versions. I see no reason for a repeat of last year's hangup, at least I'm certainly hoping not.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

I Tweeted this...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1080131547502727168
The estimated date of 1/25/19 for form availability came from TurboTax. Apparently the form has been late the last few years though.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I Tweeted this...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1080131547502727168
> The estimated date of 1/25/19 for form availability came from TurboTax. Apparently the form has been late the last few years though.


Thanks - I went searching on the Turbotax site to see what they said about the form and didn't find that. I do recall many talking about how late the form was last year. 1/25 is good news as that is about the time W2's hit so shouldn't be much of a delay this year. The link I posted goes right back to the IRS, so hope we can update that in just a couple of weeks with the approved form.


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## ig0p0g0 (Apr 27, 2018)

I’m wondering whether the partial shutdown of IRS will effect the finalization of this form. I doubt intuit will move forward with a draft form.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

ig0p0g0 said:


> I'm wondering whether the partial shutdown of IRS will effect the finalization of this form. I doubt intuit will move forward with a draft form.


Forget the form -- I believe the shutdown has an overall effect on the IRS and processing our filings. I won't get political, but thanks government (in general) for delaying my $15,000 refund


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> Forget the form -- I believe the shutdown has an overall effect on the IRS and processing our filings. I won't get political, but thanks government (in general) for delaying my $15,000 refund


Realizing that government services *are* political after passing a (highly partisan) tax reform bill, the administration seems to be indicating it will recall IRS employees, deeming them "essential" (contrary to prior practice), in order to process tax returns on schedule. I don't think we have much to worry about there. But I could be wrong!

https://federalnewsnetwork.com/gove...funds-during-shutdown-it-depends-who-you-ask/


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

Dr. J said:


> Realizing that government services *are* political after passing a (highly partisan) tax reform bill, the administration seems to be indicating it will recall IRS employees, deeming them "essential" (contrary to prior practice), in order to process tax returns on schedule. I don't think we have much to worry about there. But I could be wrong!


I hope you're right!!


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

Dr. J said:


> Realizing that government services *are* political after passing a (highly partisan) tax reform bill, the administration seems to be indicating it will recall IRS employees, deeming them "essential" (contrary to prior practice), in order to process tax returns on schedule. I don't think we have much to worry about there. But I could be wrong!
> 
> https://federalnewsnetwork.com/gove...funds-during-shutdown-it-depends-who-you-ask/


but the helpline IRS folks are not essential, apparently, so if you have questions you are on your own.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1084631183756066816


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## stlgrym3 (Nov 4, 2018)

Took my model 3 back in November. I will file my 2018 income tax soon, I’m worrying about not able to get the $7500 federal tax credit due to government shutdown. Anyone else have this concern?


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## stlgrym3 (Nov 4, 2018)

For those of you took delivery during 2018, do you apply for tax credit during 2018 or during 2019 calendar year? I know it is for our 2018 income tax, but not sure if we had to apply right away upon delivery or wait until now when we do our 2018 tax.


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## MSM3 (Aug 5, 2018)

stlgrym3 said:


> Took my model 3 back in November. I will file my 2018 income tax soon, I'm worrying about not able to get the $7500 federal tax credit due to government shutdown. Anyone else have this concern?


No


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

stlgrym3 said:


> Took my model 3 back in November. I will file my 2018 income tax soon, I'm worrying about not able to get the $7500 federal tax credit due to government shutdown. Anyone else have this concern?


Do you mean refund or credit. You'll get the credit as a reduction of tax due or an increase in refund on your tax return when filed. The refund, however, may be delayed by the shutdown. I can't imagine tax payment/refund capabilities being delayed much since this is the Fed's biggest payday.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

stlgrym3 said:


> For those of you took delivery during 2018, do you apply for tax credit during 2018 or during 2019 calendar year? I know it is for our 2018 income tax, but not sure if we had to apply right away upon delivery or wait until now when we do our 2018 tax.


The credit is applied on your 2018 tax return when you file it in 2019.


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## stlgrym3 (Nov 4, 2018)

FRC said:


> Do you mean refund or credit. You'll get the credit as a reduction of tax due or an increase in refund on your tax return when filed. The refund, however, may be delayed by the shutdown. I can't imagine tax payment/refund capabilities being delayed much since this is the Fed's biggest payday.


It's is a tax credit. So does this mean for someone who always get tax return from IRS, the $7500 is a moot point? Is it only applying to those who actually owe IRS money?


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

stlgrym3 said:


> It's is a tax credit. So does this mean for someone who always get tax return from IRS, the $7500 is a moot point? Is it only applying to those who actually owe IRS money?


If your total tax(form 1040, line 63, I think) is $7,500 or more you will be able to use the total credit. Your pocketbook might realize this credit in the form of a larger refund(if the FED owes you), or a smaller payment(if you owe the fed). Who owes who has no bearing on your ability to use the entire credit, that is a factor of your total tax. EDIT: Looks like 2018 form 1040 is completely revamped and the total tax is now on line 15, not line 63.


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## stlgrym3 (Nov 4, 2018)

FRC said:


> If your total tax(form 1040, line 63, I think) is $7,500 or more you will be able to use the total credit. Your pocketbook might realize this credit in the form of a larger refund(if the FED owes you), or a smaller payment(if you owe the fed). Who owes who has no bearing on your ability to use the entire credit, that is a factor of your total tax. EDIT: Looks like 2018 form 1040 is completely revamped and the total tax is now on line 15, not line 63.


If the total tax amount is less than $7500, then I get a partial credit back?


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

stlgrym3 said:


> If the total tax amount is less than $7500, then I get a partial credit back?


Yes, up to the amount of the total tax.


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

IRS update:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/16/mor...ed-back-to-work-to-process-refunds-calls.html


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> but the helpline IRS folks are not essential, apparently, so if you have questions you are on your own.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1084631183756066816


10,000 more to answer calls:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/16/mor...ed-back-to-work-to-process-refunds-calls.html


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## jsanford (May 24, 2016)

Dr. J said:


> Form 8936 will be automatically produced in any tax software package. You just need to supply the amounts, dates, and other data to fill it in. I don't think the manufacturer's certification will be needed, at least not in 2018.


I started my taxes today, and the software said this form isn't ready yet for 2018. They expect it by February 1st. Thought I'd pass this along, and this seemed light the logical thread.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

jsanford said:


> I started my taxes today, and the software said this form isn't ready yet for 2018. They expect it by February 1st. Thought I'd pass this along, and this seemed light the logical thread.


Which software are you using?


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## jsanford (May 24, 2016)

Turbo Tax.


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## Wooloomooloo (Oct 29, 2017)

I wasn't sure where to place this thread, but it would be good to know how 2018 buyers get on with their 2018 tax return. I used the cold weather and long weekend as a good excuse to do my taxes nice and early, and the only outstanding item I have is the EV Tax Credit, which apparently you cannot submit yet due to the form not being available. Given the government shutdown, the estimated of this being available on Jan 31st may or may not be accurate.

I don't really know why the form can't be completed, given it's not a new form (this credit has been available for years). Do any tax experts here know why?


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## Taney71 (Dec 28, 2018)

Makes no sense to me either. Perhaps they are revamping the form because the old one was confusing?


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

All tax forms are re-formatted every year. There may be no change other than dating them as a 2018 specific Form. However, additional coding may be required that is not obvious on the face of the document. How information is shared and used between documents may have changed. I did see that the basic format of the Form 1040 has changed dramatically and this may impact how information from Form 8936 is transferred to others Forms.


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## jasonm163 (Sep 12, 2018)

Glad you posted this, tried to do my taxes Saturday and had the same problem. Came here to search and see if anyone else ran into this. Hopefully they get the form done ASAP because i want to file before everyone in the world does lol


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## Taney71 (Dec 28, 2018)

FRC said:


> All tax forms are re-formatted every year. There may be no change other than dating them as a 2018 specific Form. However, additional coding may be required that is not obvious on the face of the document. How information is shared and used between documents may have changed. I did see that the basic format of the Form 1040 has changed dramatically and this may impact how information from Form 8936 is transferred to others Forms.


Makes sense. Thanks for highlighting the back side of things.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

Wooloomooloo said:


> I wasn't sure where to place this thread, but it would be good to know how 2018 buyers get on with their 2018 tax return. I used the cold weather and long weekend as a good excuse to do my taxes nice and early, and the only outstanding item I have is the EV Tax Credit, which apparently you cannot submit yet due to the form not being available. Given the government shutdown, the estimated of this being available on Jan 31st may or may not be accurate.
> 
> I don't really know why the form can't be completed, given it's not a new form (this credit has been available for years). Do any tax experts here know why?
> 
> View attachment 20808


I'm merging this into an existing thread, but if you review the draft version of the form you'll see specific changes and a call out to Tesla (though it doesn't matter for 2018 filings).


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## Wooloomooloo (Oct 29, 2017)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I'm merging this into an existing thread, but if you review the draft version of the form you'll see specific changes and a call out to Tesla (though it doesn't matter for 2018 filings).


Right, the draft is probably awaiting 3 levels of supervisor approval, which won't happen anytime soon.

I've generally taken a bath on my taxes for 2018, thanks to the tax 'cut' which targets semi-wealthy urbanites in democrat leaning cities (i.e. those with relatively high existing city, state and property taxes). I used to get a deduction on local taxes (mine add up to more than $30k) and property taxes are now capped at $10k, most New York property taxes within an hour of the city are double that. I wouldn't mind paying more taxes if they went on something useful... but hey ho, that's far too political.

The only silver lining I have is this EV credit...


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## Bing (Apr 19, 2018)

Did mine today and it says the form is now expected Feb 5th. Unfortunately it seems to already be slipping.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

Bing said:


> Did mine today and it says the form is now expected Feb 5th. Unfortunately it seems to already be slipping.


TurboTax said 2/7 as of Sunday


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## Wooloomooloo (Oct 29, 2017)

Hardly surprising with the shut down, let's hope it doesn't happen again in 3 weeks.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

Form 8936 is available at irs.gov in its final state for the 2018 tax year. So those who want to file on their own, it’s available now. Or for you turbo tax (or other software) users, it does mean the vendors should have everything needed to get the software updated. They have no reason to keep slipping the date.


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## NJturtlePower (Dec 19, 2017)

Bigriver said:


> Form 8936 is available at irs.gov in its final state for the 2018 tax year. So those who want to file on their own, it's available now. Or for you turbo tax (or other software) users, it does mean the vendors should have everything needed to get the software updated. They have no reason to keep slipping the date.


Seems to be... https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8936.pdf

Although the instructions are still the 2017 version linked.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

NJturtlePower said:


> Seems to be... https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8936.pdf
> 
> Although the instructions are still the 2017 version linked.


The 2018 instructions came up for me:
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i8936.pdf


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

NJturtlePower said:


> Although the instructions are still the 2017 version linked.


To add to @Bigriver's answer: yes, the "Instructions for Form 8936" link is still out-of-date... but if you click the separate "(PDF)" link, you'll get the PDF version that @Bigriver linked to above, which is the final 2018 version.


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## NJturtlePower (Dec 19, 2017)

Bokonon said:


> To add to @Bigriver's answer: yes, the "Instructions for Form 8936" link is still out-of-date... but if you click the separate "(PDF)" link, you'll get the PDF version that @Bigriver linked to above, which is the final 2018 version.
> 
> View attachment 21186


Attached here to make it even easier.


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## Wooloomooloo (Oct 29, 2017)

Turbo Tax is accepting the form as well.


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## ummgood (Feb 13, 2017)

Ok so I decided to start my taxes this weekend. Thankfully I am not getting shafted as much as last year but I had some questions based on stuff I saw in TurboTax based on some of the questions. I was hoping to get some more info. For more info I have a 2018 LR RWD that I took delivery of in April of 2018.

*Car Info...*
So I put in my VIN but it was also wanting the Gross Vehicle Weight and Battery Size. The problem is Tesla is trying to hide the battery size. I put in 75kWh is this correct? Also I put in 4800 as the gross weight as I didn't see anywhere this was specified and I found that number on Google. I was thinking it was closer to 3800 but maybe I am clueless. After I put in those numbers I see the credit applied to my taxes and the $7500 comes off.

*Charger...*
I was surprised that there was a section for installing an EV charger in the questions on TurboTax. I didn't know that there was a rebate for that. I installed my charger in Jan of 2018. Will I get money for that? Is it worth digging up that info for my taxes or is that a question TurboTax is using for state refund information (even though I don't pay state income tax in Texas).


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

ummgood said:


> *Charger...*
> I was surprised that there was a section for installing an EV charger in the questions on TurboTax. I didn't know that there was a rebate for that. I installed my charger in Jan of 2018. Will I get money for that?


the federal credit for charging equipment ended in 2016.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

I started my Turbo Tax return last week as well. Entered the VIN, order date, delivery date and I left the GVW blank. It still took it and gave me the $7500. I also used 75 Kwh for the battery as it is fairly widely known/discussed. I stopped there, but I wanted to see what it looked like. I think the critical items are the VIN, the dates and the battery wattage. Lower wattage qualifies for less money. I'm not sure if the form is calculating based on the Make / Model or the battery size. I can play with that tonight and see which is critical to get right.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

here's the weight info from the owners manual








(what in the P3D weighs 28lbs? difference in wheels/tires & brakes?)


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## DR61 (Apr 10, 2016)

ummgood said:


> So I put in my VIN but it was also wanting the Gross Vehicle Weight and Battery Size. The problem is Tesla is trying to hide the battery size. I put in 75kWh is this correct?


I don't think the number for kWh are relevant for Teslas; plug-in hybrids with small batteries get lower credits (I think above about 18 kWh gets full credit). I put in 75 kWh.


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## ummgood (Feb 13, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> the federal credit for charging equipment ended in 2016.


Bummer! I guess I should have installed the charger when I put in my reservation for my Model 3 in 2016. Oh well... I am surprised that TurboTax still has a way to enter the info. I might play with it to see what happens later. Oh and thanks for merging in my question to this thread. I didn't find anything easily but frankly I am lazy and didn't look too hard.



GDN said:


> I started my Turbo Tax return last week as well. Entered the VIN, order date, delivery date and I left the GVW blank. It still took it and gave me the $7500. I also used 75 Kwh for the battery as it is fairly widely known/discussed. I stopped there, but I wanted to see what it looked like. I think the critical items are the VIN, the dates and the battery wattage. Lower wattage qualifies for less money. I'm not sure if the form is calculating based on the Make / Model or the battery size. I can play with that tonight and see which is critical to get right.


Yeah mine applied the credit with the info I provided. I just didn't want to upset the powers in government if I entered something wrong because I don't want an audit. So I figured I would try to enter in accurate info (even though half the time what I enter in TurboTax doesn't end up on my tax forms).



MelindaV said:


> here's the weight info from the owners manual
> View attachment 21504
> 
> (what in the P3D weighs 28lbs? difference in wheels/tires & brakes?)


Thanks! Is that gross weight? Also I would guess the brakes on the P3D might actually weigh less depending on what they did for them. They could also weigh more. It could be strictly the tire/wheel weight over the dual motor with 18's.



DR61 said:


> I don't think the number for kWh are relevant for Teslas; plug-in hybrids with small batteries get lower credits (I think above about 18 kWh gets full credit). I put in 75 kWh.


Right I just wanted to make sure I filled out the info correctly. If there is a cutoff they should use a radial check box to have you choose ranges since a lot of cars don't like to publish their capacity anymore including Tesla.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

DR61 said:


> I don't think the number for kWh are relevant for Teslas; plug-in hybrids with small batteries get lower credits (I think above about 18 kWh gets full credit). I put in 75 kWh.


Agreed, for any Tesla vehicle, I wouldn't worry about being ultra-precise with these numbers, as Form 8936 doesn't actually ask you to submit them.

I think TurboTax is just using your GVW and battery size to confirm that your vehicle qualifies for the credit by weight (< 14,000 lbs) and and battery capacity (>= 4 kWh). The incentive amount is calculated as $2500 + $417 * (battery capacity in kWh - 4 kWh), so any capacity >= 16 kWh is going to result in the $7500 maximum... though IMHO it would be safer for TurboTax to lookup your credit amount in the official IRS-approved list of qualifying vehicles based on VIN or year/make/model.


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## ummgood (Feb 13, 2017)

Bokonon said:


> Agreed, for any Tesla vehicle, I wouldn't worry about being ultra-precise with these numbers, as Form 8936 doesn't actually ask you to submit them.
> 
> I think TurboTax is just using your GVW and battery size to confirm that your vehicle qualifies for the credit by weight (< 14,000 lbs) and and battery capacity (>= 4 kWh). The incentive amount is calculated as $2500 + $417 * (battery capacity in kWh - 4 kWh), so any capacity >= 16 kWh is going to result in the $7500 maximum... though IMHO it would be safer for TurboTax to lookup your credit amount in the official IRS-approved list of qualifying vehicles based on VIN or year/make/model.


Is it interesting that the Model 3 Mid Range isn't on the list? I would be nervous if I bought one last year and they don't have it on the approved vehicle lists.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

ummgood said:


> Is it interesting that the Model 3 Mid Range isn't on the list? I would be nervous if I bought one last year and they don't have it on the approved vehicle lists.


The IRS probably refreshes that list once a year, since traditional auto manufacturers don't do crazy things like introduce a completely new, previously-unannounced trim level in the middle of the tax year. 

In cases like the MR where the vehicle isn't listed, TurboTax should use the raw formula above, as specified in section 30D of the tax code.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

ummgood said:


> So I put in my VIN but it was also wanting the Gross Vehicle Weight and Battery Size. The problem is Tesla is trying to hide the battery size. I put in 75kWh is this correct?


As the saying goes, it's close enough for government work. 

The only reason they ask is because the car has to have a battery larger than 4 kWh in order to qualify, and I believe it has to be more than 16 kWh in order to qualify for the full amount (the old "Chevy Volt" rule). So no worries.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

Strange side-note that doesn't affect Tesla owners in any way... in correcting the math in my post above, I noticed an apparent discrepancy between the instructions for Form 8936 and the underlying section of the tax code (30D) with respect to the battery capacities that qualify.

From the Form 8936 instructions, "Qualified Plug-in Electric Drive Motor Vehicles":



> ...draws electricity from a battery that has a capacity of *not less than 4 kilowatt hours* ...


From section 30D of the tax code:



> ...draws propulsion energy from a battery with *at least 5 kilowatt hours* of capacity.


So the instructions are saying the capacity needs to be >= 4 kWh, but the tax code says >= 5 kWh??  Am I missing something?

Strangely, IRS Notice 2009-48 references both numbers. In section 2, describing an overview of the credit:



> The credit is equal to the sum of: (1) $2,500, plus (2) for a vehicle which draws propulsion energy from a battery with *at least 5 kilowatt hours* of capacity, $417, plus an additional $417 for each kilowatt hour of battery capacity *in excess of 5 kilowatt hours*.


...and in section 5, describing certification requirements for manufacturers:



> (7) A statement that the motor vehicle is propelled to a significant extent by an electric motor that draws electricity from a battery that has a capacity of *not less than 4 kilowatt hours*.
> (8) The number of kilowatt hours if any, *in excess of 4 kilowatt hours*.


Finally, the IRS list of qualifying vehicles repeats the 5 kWh number in its overview over the credit, but the calculations in the actual list are consistent with a 4 kWh baseline. For example, the Toyota Prius Prime has an 8.8 kWh battery, and a credit of $4502 = $2500 + $417 * (8.8 kWh - 4 kWh).

So, net-net, 4 kWh seems to be the correct baseline capacity for the purposes of qualification, certification, and calculating the credit amount... but why do some IRS publications say 5 kWh instead?


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Bokonon said:


> The credit is equal to the sum of: (1) $2,500, plus (2) for a vehicle which draws propulsion energy from a battery with *at least 5 kilowatt hours* of capacity, $417, plus an additional $417 for each kilowatt hour of battery capacity *in excess of 5 kilowatt hours*.


Just for completeness,
To qualify for the full $7500, the car's capacity must be 16 kWh (the size of a gen 1 Chevy Volt battery):

4kWh qualifies you for $2,500
The additional 12kWh gets you an additional $417 * 12 = $5004, capped at $5000.
Chevy made sure that the law would allow the Volt to qualify for the full amount.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> the federal credit for charging equipment ended in 2016.


I received a 30% credit (federal) for my 2017 charger install - $150 back on the $500 spend!


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I received a 30% credit (federal) for my 2017 charger install - $150 back on the $500 spend!


As did I.


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## DHS (Oct 1, 2018)

Great thread, exactly what I was looking for. I used H&block to prepeare my tax last year but before that always used turbo tax. I see a lot of comments of people using turbo tax, is that the preferred or better option when filing using firm 8936 for your $7500 tax return???


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

DHS said:


> Great thread, exactly what I was looking for. I used H&block to prepeare my tax last year but before that always used turbo tax. I see a lot of comments of people using turbo tax, is that the preferred or better option when filing using firm 8936 for your $7500 tax return???


H&R block, turbo tax, fill it in yourself -- shouldn't matter relative to form 8936. It's a pretty straight-forward form. It's my perception that Turbo-tax just has the highest market share of people who do their taxes at home.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

DHS said:


> Great thread, exactly what I was looking for. I used H&block to prepeare my tax last year but before that always used turbo tax. I see a lot of comments of people using turbo tax, is that the preferred or better option when filing using firm 8936 for your $7500 tax return???


I use TurboTax and already got my refund for both Model 3's, but H&R Block should yield the same exact results.


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## DHS (Oct 1, 2018)

Thanks for the info, quick update on my end: Tried to file with hrblock online but form 8936 is only supported in paper format and none of their online filing options (free or paid) was supported. Therefore, I switched over to TurboTax which supported the form for online filing in the deluxe version (free was not supported)...


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## thredge (Mar 24, 2017)

OK, we just filed our taxes tonight, and I feel a little dirty.

So we got the full $7500 credit, but it appears it is because the Federal government paid us this year for the remainder of the Dependent tax credit that was partially reduced due to the car credit. Did anyone else have this result? We used Tax Act to efile, and I went back and manually worked through the worksheets for those sections & I can't find fault with it.

The Child Tax Credit & Credit for Other Dependents worksheet made us deduct the Electric Car Credit and our Child Care credit from our tax liability, and only let us take the remainder of that for the child credit. But if you do that, it points you to the "Additional Child Tax Credit" (Schedule 8812), which in the 1040 instructions for Line 17b says, "The additional child tax credit may give you a refund even if you don’t owe any tax or didn't have any tax withheld." Which is basically what it is doing in this case. It works out to be the remainder of our Child Tax Credit that I thought we might lose because the main credit worksheet only lets you go as high as your tax liability.

Edit: a little more review and work shows that the Additional Child Tax Credit refund amount is limited to $1,400 per child that they will pay back to you even if you don't owe taxes.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

thredge said:


> OK, we just filed our taxes tonight, and I feel a little dirty.
> 
> So we got the full $7500 credit, but it appears it is because the Federal government paid us this year for the remainder of the Dependent tax credit that was partially reduced due to the car credit. Did anyone else have this result? We used Tax Act to efile, and I went back and manually worked through the worksheets for those sections & I can't find fault with it.
> 
> ...


I believe you understand correctly. And, mea culpa, mods.


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## Leftmain (Nov 3, 2018)

Dr. J said:


> Very informative: Instructions, Line 4b (page 3 of 4).


Hi,
Are we supposed to get some IRS form from the Tesla dealer for claiming tax credits ?

Thanks


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## Leftmain (Nov 3, 2018)

stlgrym3 said:


> I took delivery of my Model 3 last week, so I'm eligible for the $7500 tax credit. Have a few questions before I go ask my accountant:
> 
> 1. I will file my 2018 income tax early 2019, this tax credit is for FY 2018 correct?
> 
> ...


Hi Did you get an IRS form from the dealer for tax credits?

NR


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Leftmain said:


> Hi,
> Are we supposed to get some IRS form from the Tesla dealer for claiming tax credits ?
> 
> Thanks


No.
Print it out yourself, or have TurboTax add it for you, etc.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

NO, you will not get a form from Tesla. Fill out IRS form 8936 with the information provided on your MVPA.


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## stlgrym3 (Nov 4, 2018)

Leftmain said:


> Hi Did you get an IRS form from the dealer for tax credits?
> 
> NR


no i did not have to. my accountant took care of it, they downloaded the form and filled it out, i was able to get almost all of the 7500 tax credit.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

thredge said:


> So we got the full $7500 credit, but it appears it is because the Federal government paid us this year for the remainder of the Dependent tax credit that was partially reduced due to the car credit.


some credits can carry a balance to the following year and others don't. (Like the solar credit can carry over) so expect this is the case with the dependent credit. so each year will prioritize the credits that can not carry over (EV credit) and those that can carry over come into play after.

(disclaimer - I don't know that this is the case with the dependent tax credit, just guessing  )


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## thredge (Mar 24, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> some credits can carry a balance to the following year and others don't. (Like the solar credit can carry over) so expect this is the case with the dependent credit. so each year will prioritize the credits that can not carry over (EV credit) and those that can carry over come into play after.
> 
> (disclaimer - I don't know that this is the case with the dependent tax credit, just guessing  )


Hmm, what does it mean that the credit can carry over? Are they going to count the credit from this year against my return next year, or were you saying they would just carry my credit forward to next year's taxes. As far as I can tell they are cutting a check that included the extra money they are paying us this year, so it doesn't look like a carry forward type of thing.

Been almost a couple weeks now, so should know in the next week or so.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

thredge said:


> Hmm, what does it mean that the credit can carry over? Are they going to count the credit from this year against my return next year, or were you saying they would just carry my credit forward to next year's taxes. As far as I can tell they are cutting a check that included the extra money they are paying us this year, so it doesn't look like a carry forward type of thing.
> 
> Been almost a couple weeks now, so should know in the next week or so.


What you described encountering is a refundable credit - where yes, the government will give you more money back than paid in taxes. This year. What @MelindaV described is that some credits allow a carryover to a future year if you can't use it all this year. And most credits (like EV credit) are only good up to the amount of taxes you owe and are not refunded this year nor carried over to next year. Which credit does what and which is counted first is all written into the complexity of the tax rules.

Disclaimer: I'm not an accountant, but I do visit irs.gov as a hobby. 😳


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> some credits can carry a balance to the following year and others don't. (Like the solar credit can carry over) so expect this is the case with the dependent credit. so each year will prioritize the credits that can not carry over (EV credit) and those that can carry over come into play after.
> 
> (disclaimer - I don't know that this is the case with the dependent tax credit, just guessing  )


The child credit is partially refundable (meaning you don't have to have tax liability to receive it) and the non-child dependent credit is non-refundable, but neither of them carry over to future tax years.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/taxes/qualify-child-child-care-tax-credit/

*Interaction with other credits*

You can't carry forward any portion of the child tax credit to future years. You need to claim the nonrefundable credits in a certain order to get the most benefit. You might need to calculate other credits first to properly apply the child tax credit.

https://www.hrblock.com/tax-center/filing/credits/child-tax-credit/


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## thredge (Mar 24, 2017)

Dr. J said:


> The child credit is partially refundable (meaning you don't have to have tax liability to receive it) and the non-child dependent credit is non-refundable, but neither of them carry over to future tax years.
> 
> https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/taxes/qualify-child-child-care-tax-credit/
> 
> ...


Yeah, as I checked TaxAct's work, the instruction sheets lead me through it the same way, so I think it's all good. Like I said, the child credit form actually took into account the car credit, and removed it from our tax liability so the child credit was limited and we couldn't claim the whole thing. Then it moved you on to the additional child credit form that let us claim the remainder basically.

This is all very interesting, hope our conversations help other people work through this too.


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## Nathan805 (Dec 11, 2018)

I've read through this forum and I'm a bit perplexed (and by no means a tax specialist). We purchased our Model 3 Dual Motor on December 20th, 2018. I just fired up *TurboTax Premier* (online), plugged in our info, and saw the dollar-for-dollar $7500 removed from our tax liability. What I'm also noticing, however, is that I'm unable to make any additional deductions beyond a total of $10,000 ($7500 from the Tesla + $2500 additional deductions). I was under the impression that the EV tax benefit is a totally separate tax credit and that $7500 would get lopped off my tax liability AFTER I've completed all other deductions. Perhaps this isn't the right forum for this, but I'm curious to know if any other Tesla owners ran into a similar scenario. Thanks.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

The $7500 is a credit not a deduction(completely different animals). The only thing I recall that has a $10,000 limit is the tax deduction amount on schedule A. This amount is deducted as part of calculating your taxable income. Then your total tax is calculated and reduced by your $7500 credit. It sounds like you may have somehow input your credit info in the wrong place. The credit should be shown on form 8936 if it was properly input. Was it? I just finished my returns on TurboTax with no issues.


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## Johnston (Oct 12, 2018)

Nathan805 said:


> I've read through this forum and I'm a bit perplexed (and by no means a tax specialist). We purchased our Model 3 Dual Motor on December 20th, 2018. I just fired up *TurboTax Premier* (online), plugged in our info, and saw the dollar-for-dollar $7500 removed from our tax liability. What I'm also noticing, however, is that I'm unable to make any additional deductions beyond a total of $10,000 ($7500 from the Tesla + $2500 additional deductions). I was under the impression that the EV tax benefit is a totally separate tax credit and that $7500 would get lopped off my tax liability AFTER I've completed all other deductions. Perhaps this isn't the right forum for this, but I'm curious to know if any other Tesla owners ran into a similar scenario. Thanks.


Like FRC said, the $7500 credit should be separate from your deductions. I'm pretty sure you went to the wrong section to enter the EV credit info. I remember it taking some time to find b/c it wasn't part of the standard questions they ask (did you get married, have a child, buy a house, etc).

Also, when you said you purchased your Model 3 on 12/20, is that when you placed order or when you took delivery. If you took delivery in January, you'd be filing on next year's return.


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## Nathan805 (Dec 11, 2018)

Good feedback. Thank you, both. We're going to continue investigating this evening. With regard to Johnston's question: We took delivery on 12/20, so we're good to go. Thanks!


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

Nathan805 said:


> Good feedback. Thank you, both. We're going to continue investigating this evening. With regard to Johnston's question: We took delivery on 12/20, so we're good to go. Thanks!


You may be confusing the EV credit with the state and local tax deduction (SALT) limit of $10,000. Buying a Tesla offers both these benefits, but the EV credit is by far the most valuable.

Under the SALT limitation, you have a choice of filling your $10,000 SALT deduction quota with either sales tax or income tax, with real estate taxes piled on top. TurboTax will sort out which of those two (local/state sales tax or local/state income tax) is greater. My guess is most Californians have more income tax than sales tax, but if you paid a lot of car sales tax by buying a Tesla, that might change the equation by boosting your total sales tax paid. The sales tax deduction includes actual tax on big ticket items (like cars and a few other things) plus an amount based on income; OR your actual sales tax paid if you can document that.

For most taxpayers, it's moot because of the elimination of personal exemptions and the huge increase in the standard deduction. Very few taxpayers itemize now (I think the estimate for 2018 was less than 15% of taxpayers), but this forum may include a disproportionate number of itemizers.


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## slasher016 (Sep 12, 2017)

Anyone feel like their refund is taking forever due to the tax credit? I don't know if that is why mine is so slow or not. . . I have a fairly complicated return this year.


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## BluestarE3 (Oct 12, 2017)

slasher016 said:


> Anyone feel like their refund is taking forever due to the tax credit? I don't know if that is why mine is so slow or not. . . I have a fairly complicated return this year.


Got mine two weeks after e-filing.


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