# Dynamic/flashing Brake Lights



## SimonMatthews (Apr 20, 2018)

BluestarE3 said:


> Dynamic Brake Lights is a Europe-only feature? It would be nice to have it on this side of the pond too.


I disagree. People automatically respond to brake lights. No conscious thought is required. Flashing brake lights don't match the pattern, so you have to think about what to do, so take more more time to respond. I think flashing brake lights make you more likely to be rear-ended, not less.

This will change if flashing brake lights become common, but I don't want my car rear-ended in the interim.


----------



## EpsilonKore (Aug 16, 2018)

SimonMatthews said:


> I disagree. People automatically respond to brake lights. No conscious thought is required. Flashing brake lights don't match the pattern, so you have to think about what to do, so take more more time to respond. I think flashing brake lights make you more likely to be rear-ended, not less.
> 
> This will change if flashing brake lights become common, but I don't want my car rear-ended in the interim.


Flashing third brake lights have been options on some Fords and GMs for at least a decade now. If it's kept to the third brake light, I don't see it being anything but an advantage. I would love it as a programmable option.


----------



## BluestarE3 (Oct 12, 2017)

SimonMatthews said:


> I disagree. People automatically respond to brake lights. No conscious thought is required. Flashing brake lights don't match the pattern, so you have to think about what to do, so take more more time to respond. I think flashing brake lights make you more likely to be rear-ended, not less.
> 
> This will change if flashing brake lights become common, but I don't want my car rear-ended in the interim.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...WMAh6BAgAEAE&usg=AOvVaw0hQu9fdAQ5k6nj8tIbGMRH


----------



## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

SimonMatthews said:


> I disagree. People automatically respond to brake lights. No conscious thought is required. Flashing brake lights don't match the pattern, so you have to think about what to do, so take more more time to respond. I think flashing brake lights make you more likely to be rear-ended, not less.
> 
> This will change if flashing brake lights become common, but I don't want my car rear-ended in the interim.


The flashing occurs very quickly, usually just a few pulses for a short time, which sublimely gets your attention faster than the single transition. I actually modified the lights on one of my cars in the past to do this, but felt bad when stuck in traffic repeatedly hitting the brakes. Several other brands have been doing so only under hard braking, I'm very glad Tesla is doing the same.


----------



## SimonMatthews (Apr 20, 2018)

BluestarE3 said:


> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...WMAh6BAgAEAE&usg=AOvVaw0hQu9fdAQ5k6nj8tIbGMRH


The study appears to have been conducted in China, where flashing brake lights may be common already.


----------



## SimonMatthews (Apr 20, 2018)

JWardell said:


> The flashing occurs very quickly, usually just a few pulses for a short time, which sublimely gets your attention faster than the single transition. I actually modified the lights on one of my cars in the past to do this, but felt bad when stuck in traffic repeatedly hitting the brakes. Several other brands have been doing so only under hard braking, I'm very glad Tesla is doing the same.


Getting the driver's attention isn't the only factor: reaction time is also important.

I am only reporting my own reaction to flashing brake lights: I did not have an instinctive reaction ready to deal with the situation, so my braking in emergency situations would be later. I don't think that I am atypical.

The real question is how quickly would I learn to react instinctively to flashing brake lights?


----------



## magglass1 (Apr 15, 2018)

SimonMatthews said:


> Getting the driver's attention isn't the only factor: reaction time is also important.
> 
> I am only reporting my own reaction to flashing brake lights: I did not have an instinctive reaction ready to deal with the situation, so my braking in emergency situations would be later. I don't think that I am atypical.
> 
> The real question is how quickly would I learn to react instinctively to flashing brake lights?


I agree. Many vehicles annoyingly flash the left or right brake light as their turn signal instead of using a dedicated lamp. I find when someone briefly taps and releases their brakes in traffic my first reaction is that they may be about to change lanes, not stop. I imagine my initial reaction would be the same for anything except where the center brake light is the only one flashing.


----------



## CousinVinnie (Mar 27, 2019)

I hope they implement this. I've added this on a previous vehicle and tailgating was reduced as well as traffic seems to stop further behind while parked at stop lights as well


----------



## CousinVinnie (Mar 27, 2019)

magglass1 said:


> I agree. Many vehicles annoyingly flash the left or right brake light as their turn signal instead of using a dedicated lamp. I find when someone briefly taps and releases their brakes in traffic my first reaction is that they may be about to change lanes, not stop. I imagine my initial reaction would be the same for anything except where the center brake light is the only one flashing.


It will likely be just the 3rd light. It's a very very very rapid blink you won't confuse it with a turn signal


----------



## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

Unless the rules changed in the last couple of years, the NHTSA forbids brake lights from flashing. So if Tesla wants to add that as a U.S. feature, it's probably going to have to request an exemption, which could take years. Maybe.

Maybe because there's a grey area in the rules. The NHTSA does not forbid the installation of flashing brake lights, only that cars can't be manufactured and sold with them. Owners are allowed to install them after sale. Since Tesla can activate things like that with a firmware update later, and the user has to approve the update...and yes that would mean those who just bought a Tesla would have to wait until their first firmware update to unlock the feature.

As this topic progresses, keep in mind that there's this rule with software that when you introduce a new feature, 40% of people love it, 40% hate it and want it to be put back, and 20% want to discuss whether they need it or not.


----------



## Magnets! (Jan 10, 2019)

Things like this are often regulated by the states which makes it complicated for a car company to comply. I have a flashing brake light on my motorcycle and California law allows it as long as the flashing sequence matches their requirements. It also has a feature so it doesn't drive people behind you crazy in traffic and will flash the brakes when engine braking just like the Tesla does during regen. Although mine is aftermarket BMW now offers a flashing brake light as OEM on their motorcycles.


----------



## TheHairyOne (Nov 28, 2018)

In SoCal it seems people are adopting a lane swerve to signal hard braking. A lot of people now go into the emergency lane when they brake hard or they think your'e coming too fast. Maybe Tesla should make this GPS based and swerve erratically under hard braking, maintaining lane composure. They could call it "pea****ing" and pop open the trunk too.

Personally I want my car to do this under emergency braking....


----------



## Guest (Mar 30, 2019)

Flashing brakes and hazards are almost standard on premium European vehicles for many years.
All possible ways should be used to avoid rear-ending in case of extreme situation.
Using lights already on the vehicle is no-brainer.
I'm disappointed that Tesla doesn't do that.

Due to halogen bulb slow response time older BMW (2004) had two additional warning levels.
Nowadays, all brakes blink and in case of dropping speed from high to almost standing also hazards switch on
to tell others you stopped somewhere people go really fast (like in the middle of the road).
For example, small collision with a fox. Emergency braking happens, nobody is behind. Bang. Accident.
Driver is really sad. Gets out of the vehicle and forgets to activate hazards. Lightbulb - car does that for you.


----------



## Kizzy (Jul 25, 2016)

TheHairyOne said:


> In SoCal it seems people are adopting a lane swerve to signal hard braking. A lot of people now go into the emergency lane when they brake hard or they think your'e coming too fast. Maybe Tesla should make this GPS based and swerve erratically under hard braking, maintaining lane composure. They could call it "pea****ing" and pop open the trunk too.
> 
> Personally I want my car to do this under emergency braking....
> 
> View attachment 24155


Interesting thought. I've generally assumed this was a reaction to avoid a collision.

Do people still flash their brake lights to indicate a heavy slow down up ahead? I've done that.


----------



## Guest (Apr 5, 2019)

Kizzy said:


> Do people still flash their brake lights to indicate a heavy slow down up ahead? I've done that.


In Europe, if case somebody sees any kind of danger (or vehicle sees ) one could (actually recommended) use hazards while slowing down/stopping.
For example, heavy traffic on german highway. In case somebody reduces speed to something really low (like 40mph) last one in the line switches on hazards and keeps them on indefinitely (until somebody is behind and takes over).
Hazards button must be available at any moment. Can't be submerged inside menus. All Teslas have dedicated hazard button.

With opposite traffic, we usually blink highbeam for information exchange.
One longer flash: you forgot to turn on your headlights or you are blinding me with your lights.
Doubleflash: police hiding in the bushes.
Triple (up to 10 in case of extreme case) flash: serious danger on the road.
Haza

Europe also use hazards for thanking. One or two blinks as thanks or thank you for letting me cut in.
In case you want to thank opposite traffic, a palm is raised (incl all fingers) at 11 or 12 on the steering wheel.

Swerving across one or multiple lanes means "do not overtake" in EU. Police does that sometimes. Also when oversized load vehicle is turning or crossing narrow bridge... support vehicles usually swerve across lanes.


----------



## PaulK (Oct 2, 2017)

The the US,

Blinking hazards means it started raining and the driver is scared or elderly.

Long headlight flash: you're approaching me on an incline and your headlights shined in my eye

Short headlight flash: driver was trying to run the wipers.

Double headlight flash: driver still can't find the wipers.

Fingers raised on the steering wheel: Driver is turned around yelling at kids.

Swerving across all lanes: I'm drunk. Sometimes means I'm elderly










Shame TOO doesn't allow posting animated GIF files


----------



## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

PaulK said:


> Long headlight flash: you're approaching me on an incline and your headlights shined in my eye
> 
> Short headlight flash: driver was trying to run the wipers.
> 
> Double headlight flash: driver still can't find the wipers.


What about for indicating police are ahead or to turn your brights off?


----------



## ehendrix23 (Jan 30, 2019)

iChris93 said:


> What about for indicating police are ahead or to turn your brights off?


Police ahead: phone is out ready to record the event to put on Youtube
Turn your bright off: Gun is out trying to shoot your lights out (we try to be helpful and not inconvenience you, hence we'll try to turn your brights off ourselves <g>)


----------



## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

ehendrix23 said:


> Police ahead: phone is out ready to record the event to put on Youtube
> Turn your bright off: Gun is out trying to shoot your lights out (we try to be helpful and not inconvenience you, hence we'll try to turn your brights off ourselves <g>)


Thought of another one this morning. How do you indicate to someone their lights are off and they need to be turned on?


----------



## ehendrix23 (Jan 30, 2019)

iChris93 said:


> Thought of another one this morning. How do you indicate to someone their lights are off and they need to be turned on?


I found shining a floodlight in driver's eyes works pretty well. 

Note, did find a few times that other driver thought my brights were on and thus was trying to turn them off for me with their gun.


----------



## Kizzy (Jul 25, 2016)

iChris93 said:


> Thought of another one this morning. How do you indicate to someone their lights are off and they need to be turned on?


Pull up behind them and flash your high beams until they turn on their lights or your goodwill runs out because DRL are good enough at night that drivers don't get the message anymore).


----------



## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

Kizzy said:


> Pull up behind them and flash your high beams until they turn on their lights or your goodwill runs out because DRL are good enough at night that drivers don't get the message anymore).


Yup, many just don't get this!


----------



## PaulK (Oct 2, 2017)

I wish law enforcement would put an effort into citing poor driving habits. Make people pay attention to these details and I think they may become better drivers all around. Also, requiring better training/testing before issuing licenses would be a big help.

* Driving at dusk with only parking lights
* Driving in fog or rain without headlights
* Driving with high beams OR headlights needing to be aimed (also: Jacked up 4x4 trucks needing to be re-aimed)
* Driving with broken lights
* Driving with obviously illegal exhaust systems (I believe there's some noise limit in the law)
* Tailgating
* Driving with flow of traffic (or slower!) in left lanes
* Not using turn signals (or signaling very late)
* Applying brakes on freeway onramps (ignorant merging)
* Failure to yield (or take!) the right-of-way
* Failure to signal when exiting a roundabout

I believe thatt if traffic cops were to focus on these infractions as aggressively as they lie-in-wait for the 5 MPH dangerous life-threatening speeder, I think the roads would be safer and traffic would flow more smoothly.


----------



## Jim O (Sep 21, 2018)

Years ago there was a guy in the mid West that had an add on accessory that looked like a stop light. Green when foot was on the gas, yellow when it was off, and red when you hit the brake. Seemed like a good idea then and a great one for a Tesla when you take your foot off the accelerator. It would make the other folks jealous too knowing you didn't need to use your brakes.


----------

