# Love the Tesla brand. The CEO? Not so much



## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

Once upon a time, I viewed Musk as a luminary, someone to emulate. Lately? Not so much. As Musk is getting richer he is showing alarming anti government tendencies from his rebuke of California lockdown measures early on in the pandemic up to his recent misguided prononciation on the Canadian blockades and his whining about the "bad" NHTSA. Musk is entitled to express his opinions, fortunate is he to be living in a democratic country. If I were to interview him, here's what I'd like to ask him:

- "Mr Musk, please share with us your opinion on the Tiananmen Square Massacre".

- "I'm done here!"


----------



## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

Mr. Musk is brilliant. And he has a weakness that plagues many brilliant people. He believes that his brilliance is equally applicable to every area of life. Whether it's invention, exploration, manufacturing, politics, social issues, customer service, or product implementation, he believes that he sees and knows more than anyone else.

If he would rein himself in, use his brilliance only in those areas to which his brilliance applies, and let others use their own brilliance in other areas, Tesla would be a better company and the world a better place.


----------



## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

So basically he should either speak out when its issues you agree with him on or not give his opinion.


----------



## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

If he spoke only on issues where I agree with him, we wouldn't hear much from him.


----------



## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

Your take on my post shows you didn't get my point so let me summarize what I said. Musk has no qualms voicing disagreement with democratic governments (as he's entitled) but he's quite the opposite when it comes to authoritarian ones.


----------



## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

At the time his factory in China wasn't under lockdown while Fremont was shutdown in California. He has also been consistent on over-regulation causing issues in Berlin and California while China got his factory up and running in record time. Also in the case of the NHTSA and SEC I see him more as reactionary.


----------



## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

The Berlin factory is another example of Musk's view of his own self-importance. It's one thing to rail against overregulation and it's another one to flout established rules for one's own benefit. He would never dare behave this way in China. No one does.


----------



## Mr. Spacely (Feb 28, 2019)

I don't think Musk is anti-government or anti-USA or pro-China. He is against unnecessary regulation, Covid shutdowns, and high taxes. That is why he is in Texas not California. Now that we are into year 3 of Covid 19, we have learned that the shutdowns only postponed Covid, and didn't prevent anything. Triple vaccinated folks got and spread Covid, and most masks are ineffective. 

Here in Florida we shut down for about a month and only wore masks for about 3 months. We kept the economy hopping and in the end had fewer Covid deaths per capita than: New York, New Jersey, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, and most other lock-down states. And we have more of an elderly susceptible population.


----------



## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

Although this thread in not about discussing the early measures we should remind ourselves of how fast it was spreading in countries like Italy and Spain, overwhelming their health care systems. You are 100% correct that the shutdown postponed the spread and it was all about allowing sick people to be treated instead of going through a triage like in Italy. It also gave the drug manufacturers time to study and produce a vaccine. Despite all that more than 900,000 Americans have died of covid.


----------



## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

Mr. Spacely said:


> I don't think Musk is anti-government or anti-USA or pro-China.


I don't think he's anti USA of pro China either. In my opinion he is anti-government if he's not getting his way, except in China where he's always, hum, v e r y r e s p e c t f u l.


----------



## Copterguy (Apr 12, 2019)

francoisp said:


> Your take on my post shows you didn't get my point so let me summarize what I said. Musk has no qualms voicing disagreement with democratic governments (as he's entitled) but he's quite the opposite when it comes to authoritarian ones.


Apparently you seem to not understand what "Authoritarian" is. Unnecessary lockdowns and mandates are authoritarian. Yeah, the "Science" confirms this. The Johns Hopkins Study confirms it as the leftist narrative continues to argue their (your) narrative.


----------



## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

Mr. Spacely said:


> Here in Florida we shut down for about a month and only wore masks for about 3 months. We kept the economy hopping and in the end had fewer Covid deaths per capita than: New York, New Jersey, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, and most other lock-down states. And we have more of an elderly susceptible population.


According to Google covid stats, Florida has reported 68,000 deaths and New York 66,000. Florida death rate is 0.3162%; New York death rate is 0.3393%. So you are correct, New York per capita rate is slightly higher but barely. But when considering that almost half of New York state's population fits in 302 square mile, with a population density of 27,000 per square mile, it only make sense to have more restrictions.


----------



## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

francoisp said:


> I don't think he's anti USA of pro China either. In my opinion when is anti-government if he's not getting his way, except in China where he's always, hum, v e r y r e s p e c t f u l.


Is he not getting his way in China?


----------



## Mr. Spacely (Feb 28, 2019)

francoisp said:


> I'm not sure where you got your stats from but according to Google covid stats, Florida has reported 68,000 deaths and New York 66,000.


I said fewer deaths per capita. Florida has a couple million more residents than NY-- and growing daily as people leave high tax, high regulation states.


----------



## TrevP (Oct 20, 2015)

It's perfectly OK to not like what the CEO says or does. I don't always agree with what Elon does or what Tesla does, the products are still excellent and have no effect on my buying decisions. I never liked Microsoft or their CEOs but I still enjoy my Xbox


----------



## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

TrevP said:


> It's perfectly OK to not like what the CEO says or does. I don't always agree with what Elon does or what Tesla does, the products are still excellent and have no effect on my buying decisions. I never liked Microsoft or their CEOs but I still enjoy my Xbox


No one says otherwise. My original post was about how disappointing he's been as a person in the last few years. And I must admit that as much as I like my model Y, I will be looking elsewhere for my next car because of him.


----------



## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

Copterguy said:


> Apparently you seem to not understand what "Authoritarian" is. Unnecessary lockdowns and mandates are authoritarian. Yeah, the "Science" confirms this. The Johns Hopkins Study confirms it as the leftist narrative continues to argue their (your) narrative.


One could argue that preventing schools, private businesses from enforcing mandates is authoritarian. I can't figure out people that are anti-mandante when the goal is to protect our fellow Americans. To me it's simple civic duties and patriotism. Just today, I was at the dentist and a woman thank me for wearing my mask because she's immunocompromised and her husband has leukemia.


----------



## Copterguy (Apr 12, 2019)

The problem with that thought process is that we have quantifiable examples of why it's wrong. Florida has no mandates and was tied with Hawaii for lowest per capita cases. Difference? Hawaii, where I'm at (not for long) all but stopped tourists from coming, with mandates and continuing Vax passports to enter restaurants etc. (meanwhile the "Recent" surge in cases were traced back to restaurants, lol, those passport holders) Florida, in contrast had a massive surge in tourism. The Hawaii governor litterally told people not to come. Yeah, I work in the tourism industry. If the DOD wasn't a main staple of Hawaii's income, they'd be like Haiti. By the way, I'm a 56 year old diabetic who had covid. It was 4 days of sniffles and fatigue. Happy with my robust immune system.


----------



## Mr. Spacely (Feb 28, 2019)

Funny. You can't please either side with Musk?

1. He is a liberal tree-hugging pot smoker trying to stop pollution
2. He is a Republican who hates taxes and regulation

Maybe he is a Libertarian?


----------



## Copterguy (Apr 12, 2019)

Mr. Spacely said:


> Funny. You can't please either side with Musk?
> 
> 1. He is a liberal tree-hugging pot smoker trying to stop pollution
> 2. He is a Republican who hates taxes and regulation
> ...


Either way, He's pretty logical, hence his success.


----------



## TrevP (Oct 20, 2015)

Folks before this devolves please be aware we prefer if you don't discuss political stuff here, keep that for Facebook. Let's keep it friendly and civil

Thanks


----------



## Mr. Spacely (Feb 28, 2019)

TrevP said:


> Folks before this devolves please be aware we prefer if you don't discuss political stuff here, keep that for Facebook. Let's keep it friendly and civil
> 
> Thanks


OK. But it is "Off Topic."


----------



## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

There are some things he does that I guess a lot of us wish he didn't, but in the woke society we live in, it's nice to hear a voice once in a while that isn't just trying to appease. I'm sure we all just wish we had the voice he has, however, I'm glad that most of us don't.


----------



## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

I think the difference between Tesla and SpaceX is instructive. I get the sense that Gwynne Shotwell is a crucial steadying hand at SpaceX. Musk provides the vision, but she keeps things on a steady keel. Tesla doesn't have an equivalent, and it seems to be running off the rails.


----------



## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

TrevP said:


> It's perfectly OK to not like what the CEO says or does. I don't always agree with what Elon does or what Tesla does, the products are still excellent and have no effect on my buying decisions. I never liked Microsoft or their CEOs but I still enjoy my Xbox


The line that was crossed for me is the description of the racial atmosphere at the Fremont plant. I agree with you that I can separate a CEO's views from that of a company. But the way a company treats its workers? If even half the stuff in the DFEH lawsuit is accurate, then I'm out, at least until there's a real reckoning and big changes. If I were in the market for a car today, I couldn't buy a Tesla, no matter how good the product was.


----------



## Jim H (Feb 11, 2017)

GDN said:


> There are some things he does that I guess a lot of us wish he didn't, but in the woke society we live in, it's nice to hear a voice once in a while that isn't just trying to appease. I'm sure we all just wish we had the voice he has, however, I'm glad that most of us don't.


One thing about Musk that doesn't come out often is that he admits he has a form of Asperger's Syndrome. People with Asperger's have difficulties with social interaction, and tend to have obsessive issues. This can explain many things Musk does as he does not see everything the same as everyone else. 
That same different vision he has is the main reason we are driving our cars today. Who else would risk everything to make his vision work? GM, Ford, Dodge. The only reason those manufactures are doing EV's today is because of what Musk has done with Tesla.

Sure Musk is a demanding guy by all reports, but this is CEO who slept at the factory how many times during production hell as he called it. He demands a lot from employees, but then he puts in the effort as well.

Without Musk's vision with Tesla, we all would still be driving ICE cars paying $5/gallon for gas. If we only want to support a CEO who only does acceptable things the pleases most, not sure sure who that would be. Bill Gates, nah, Steve Jobs, nah, Roger Ailes, hell no.

I don't agree with everything Musk does, but I do watch what next venture he pursues. He does have a pretty good success story.


----------



## Nom (Oct 30, 2018)

He is trying to change the world for the better and I get the sense that he wants the bureaucrats and fiddlers and obstructionists and red tape types to get the hell out of his way. Can’t they see he is driving such huge change? Make room!! The importance of the change and the need to make it happen quickly should be earning him wide birth. (My guess on his thinking)

Example - climate change is expected to kill 200M people by 2100. By bending the curve with aggressive EV adoption we can reduce that to 125M. But let’s slow it down by throwing in tons of red tape. (These numbers are made up - just giving an example of a potential line of thinking).

But ….. When your hear of the Biden admin excluding Tesla from this and that because of Union stuff, you realize that as important as climate change is to many, it isn’t more important (or much more) than many other priorities our society has. There is NO big and wide lane being created for those driving big improvements when it comes to climate efforts. You need to deal with all the politics, critics picking at you, and red tape just like everyone else. Society is trying to balance a lot of goals in a fairly equal manner. Is that appropriate? Depends on how big of a threat climate change is relative to the other ‘threats’/‘opportunities.’


----------



## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

The best way to fight climate change is a carbon tax. EV adoption will help but it's not nearly enough.

By the way, Musk is in favor of a carbon tax. 😁

Below is an analysis of the impact of a carbon tax. I recommend it even for those that intrinsically oppose taxes of any kind.


----------



## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Nom said:


> He is trying to change the world for the better and I get the sense that he wants the bureaucrats and fiddlers and obstructionists and red tape types to get the hell out of his way. Can't they see he is driving such huge change? Make room!! The importance of the change and the need to make it happen quickly should be earning him wide birth. (My guess on his thinking)
> 
> Example - climate change is expected to kill 200M people by 2100. By bending the curve with aggressive EV adoption we can reduce that to 125M. But let's slow it down by throwing in tons of red tape. (These numbers are made up - just giving an example of a potential line of thinking).
> 
> But ….. When your hear of the Biden admin excluding Tesla from this and that because of Union stuff, you realize that as important as climate change is to many, it isn't more important (or much more) than many other priorities our society has. There is NO big and wide lane being created for those driving big improvements when it comes to climate efforts. You need to deal with all the politics, critics picking at you, and red tape just like everyone else. Society is trying to balance a lot of goals in a fairly equal manner. Is that appropriate? Depends on how big of a threat climate change is relative to the other 'threats'/'opportunities.'


They get it, but those on the opposite side of him are typically politicians. If they let change happen fast or they aren't the ones getting credit for it, then they try to silence whoever it is making waves. Biden not mentioning Tesla is just holding the middle finger up to Musk. How can you be so bold to give $4K more rebate to a car built by union workers vs one that isn't? He is just a bought out POS.


----------



## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

GDN said:


> He is just a bought out POS.


I expect better from a moderator.


----------



## Jim H (Feb 11, 2017)

francoisp said:


> I expect better from a moderator.


I agree. Thought we try keep out the political BS in this forum. Your Texas is showing with that comment.


----------



## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

francoisp said:


> I expect better from a moderator.





Jim H said:


> I agree. Thought we try keep out the political BS in this forum. Your Texas is showing with that comment.


Well - since we don't really allow politics on the forum even in the Off Topic forum, I'll ask @TrevP to lock and or delete the thread. It truly is a political thread, just disguised as how some don't agree with Musk's (political) views. I won't lock it as that wouldn't seem fair since I am a moderator, but @TrevP can review and do so. There is no way talking about Musk and how he wants to handle Masks and Canadian Truckers isn't political.


----------



## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

GDN said:


> Well - since we don't really allow politics on the forum even in the Off Topic forum, I'll ask @TrevP to lock and or delete the thread. It truly is a political thread, just disguised as how some don't agree with Musk's (political) views. I won't lock it as that wouldn't seem fair since I am a moderator, but @TrevP can review and do so. There is no way talking about Musk and how he wants to handle Masks and Canadian Truckers isn't political.


Following this logic, basically we can never criticize Musk because anyone can view it as a political statement. I don't buy it. As adults, we should be able to share opinions without resorting to name calling. That's what the job of a moderator is.


----------



## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Correct - we aren't here to criticize anyone, we are hear to discuss Tesla and their cars and some of their competition. 

As a moderator I have an opinion and I get to share it too, I let your opinion on Musk tweak me and I lashed out at his opposition. 

I'm not above the law, but I am here because of my love for the car and amount of time I've spent on this forum. 

I've admitted it before, my post is likely out of line, but simply I'm no more wrong about my opinion than you are of yours. So the politics can be taken to another board.


----------

