# Full Self Driving (FSD) Problems



## 68shooter (Apr 3, 2020)

I've searched the forum and didn't see any FSD Problem threads, so here we go:

I decided to subscribe to FSD for $200/month when I recently started a new job that requires an approximate 140 mile roundtrip commute each day. The drive is nearly all interstate highway with a speed limit of 75mph. I have a 2020 Long Range Model 3.
Here are the problems with FSD I've encountered that have me thinking of cancelling the subscription after the current (2nd) month expires:


Inconsistent lane changes / passing of other slower moving vehicles. Often I must manually start a lane change and pass a slower car by holding down the left turn signal.
Inability to stay in lane in curved sections of road. My car frequently departs the lane or drives on the dotted line that separates the two lanes of traffic, whether there is another vehicle over there or not.
Road departures. Three different times, my car has tried to drive itself off the road and alerted me to take control while automatically changing back from the left to right lane.
Mystery braking. Sometimes, for no apparent reason when there aren't cars or other objects in the road my car rapidly decelerates. The concern here is that I get rear-ended when the car rapidly slows from 80mph to 65mph.
No recognition of steering wheel interactions. This has been rare, but it has happened a few times. I'm prompted to tug or push on the steering wheel and the car doesn't recognize that I'm doing that. FSD quits.
Steering wheel interactions are way too frequently required. My car prompts about every 15-20 seconds (I've time it) to do something to the steering wheel. Honestly, I might as well be driving it myself.
Anyone else seeing these problems with FSD? Are there any fixes to these issues? Thanks.


----------



## Mr. Spacely (Feb 28, 2019)

What software update are you on? Most of those issues were things we encountered years ago. Where are you located/driving? 

You can take off the auto lane change feature or set it to change more aggressively.
My car stays centered in the lane quite well. Are you on unusually high curvatures? 
I have NEVER had the car leave the highway. Occasional issues in the past with unusual road splits have caused confusion.
Haven't had mystery breaking in a while. It was an issue under overpasses with heavy shadows.
Keep your hand hanging on the wheel at all times and there will be no nagging.


----------



## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

Since most of these are Autopilot related (I don't have FSD):

The last two items are related. The more warnings you get about not paying attention, the more frequently it nags you for input. I don't consider myself an AP expert, but when I have AP running I tend to grip the bottom of the wheel with one hand. That keeps me from trying to resist the auto-steering, but puts enough resistance on it that AP almost never nags me. If AP does something stupid, it's enough leverage to force it the direction I need it to go, and my other hand is right nearby.

And the road departures is the reason why AP wants you to keep your hands on the wheel and ready to take over.

Full Self Drive is not actually full self drive yet. You have to be alert and ready to take over, and don't text, or watch a movie or read facebook/twitter/instagram. If you don't stay alert, you will eventually become the subject of a news article that begins with "Tesla driver crashed while on Autopilot" that we'll be discussing here. Maybe at this point you're thinking 'this is not what I paid for'...well, you're right, it's not. And that's a subject of many complaints, and the reason I wouldn't buy FSD right now even if I had the extra money. 

Short version: Cancel the sub and be thankful that though AP is also flawed, it's also free.


----------



## Ed Woodrick (May 26, 2018)

68shooter said:


> I've searched the forum and didn't see any FSD Problem threads, so here we go:


Lane changes seem to be pretty good, you just have to know how it thinks. Autopilot lane changes ONLY occur on limited access divided roads. I've got a road that change from an Interstate to state highway, moving from 4 lanes limited access to 4 lane not limited access. It is honestly an imaginary line, but no more lane changes after the Interstate.
It will generally change lanes when it sees a slower car in front or if in the left lane, someone behind.

Curves, yep, can't stay between the lines, but a lot better than it used to be. At least it attempts to slow down at times.

Road departures may have something to occur with the map quality, I don't think that I've seen it.

Phantom braking, yep, bet than it used to be.

Steering wheel interactions. That's more than like you not providing the correct rotational force. You don't push or pull on the steering wheel, you just provide a slight rotation force to the wheel.

Interaction frequency, again, you probably don't understand the requirement. It's not hands on the wheel or eyes on the road, it is slight rotational torque on the wheel. It is NOT a normal thing that a driver does. This is the SAME requirement as most other vehicles with Adaptive Cruise Control, it's not a Tesla only thing.

A little looking and you may find most all of these items being discussed many times over the years.


----------



## 68shooter (Apr 3, 2020)

JasonF said:


> Since most of these are Autopilot related (I don't have FSD):
> 
> The last two items are related. The more warnings you get about not paying attention, the more frequently it nags you for input. I don't consider myself an AP expert, but when I have AP running I tend to grip the bottom of the wheel with one hand. That keeps me from trying to resist the auto-steering, but puts enough resistance on it that AP almost never nags me. If AP does something stupid, it's enough leverage to force it the direction I need it to go, and my other hand is right nearby.
> 
> ...


You're correct. I was expecting more, but I think auto-pilot will be sufficient for me. I'll just cancel the subscription before it renews again.


----------



## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

68shooter said:


> You're correct. I was expecting more, but I think auto-pilot will be sufficient for me. I'll just cancel the subscription before it renews again.


My old commute was 90 to 160 miles per day. I had Enhanced Auto Pilot on my first Model 3 and which included almost all features that are now active in the FSD package. My second Model 3 I had AP only. AP was more than enough. FSD / EAP features just don't do anything to lower your blood pressure while driving, IMO.


----------



## Derik (Jul 26, 2017)

Needsdecaf said:


> My old commute was 90 to 160 miles per day. I had Enhanced Auto Pilot on my first Model 3 and which included almost all features that are now active in the FSD package. My second Model 3 I had AP only. AP was more than enough. FSD / EAP features just don't do anything to lower your blood pressure while driving, IMO.


The only thing I'd miss is the lane change feature. The rest of it.. is just party tricks that don't work that well. Sure navigate on AP is useful at times. When the car wants to change lanes, most of the time it is wrong, or wouldn't be a lane change I'd do. My wife thinks I'm crazy when I talk to the car asking it what it is doing?!? I've since turned off that "feature."


----------



## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

Derik said:


> The only thing I'd miss is the lane change feature. The rest of it.. is just party tricks that don't work that well. Sure navigate on AP is useful at times. When the car wants to change lanes, most of the time it is wrong, or wouldn't be a lane change I'd do. My wife thinks I'm crazy when I talk to the car asking it what it is doing?!? I've since turned off that "feature."


Agreed. I really do miss lane change assist. It's pretty annoying to have to continually cancel AutoSteer and re-engage it.

But when they offered EAP last year for $4k I was like "do I miss it $4,000 much? No."


----------



## ltorg (Sep 25, 2018)

Well, after a 4500 mile road trip, I logged at least two or 3 FSD anomalies per day. Most were as noted by 68shooter - especially concerning were the almost daily phantom braking events, which, in one instance, almost got me rear-ended by a semi in Phoenix. Add to 68shooter's list the fact that the brainless lane-keeping algorithm always puts the car in what it thinks is the center of the lane, and that means being too close to trucks, k-rails in the left lane where there is no shoulder, and drunken swerving every time the right hand white line drifts off to the right for an offramp.

But there were a couple of new ones I never saw before - and I have pictures - the interstate had construction work on the opposing side, so they had diverted the oncoming traffic into what would normally be the passing lane, with orange posts marking the temporary one-lane condition. No only did the AP not see the orange posts on the left every 50 feet or so, it kept trying to steer me into the passing lane into oncoming traffic! Lesson learned: *do NOT let the FSD do automatic lane changes*.

Another annoyance was having it cancel lane changes midway through the maneuver for no apparent reason. Starts to change, then suddenly swerves back into the original lane (with no other traffic in the next lane to the left), and then makes a second stab at it moments later. That got me followed by a state trooper for about 10 miles who probably thought I was drunk.

In the "nearly would have killed me" category, there were 4 instances of being in the left or right lane, having a sign notifying me that there was road construction ahead, having the lane being gradually merged over by BIG ORANGE BARRELS, and having to manually disengage the AP because it was going to just drive right in to them! I understand now why there have been fatalities in the Tesla while an inattentive driver is relying on FSD.

Finally, the FSD doesn't understand 80 MPH speed limits in the far west. When the traffic flow is 85 MPH, and you go to pass a semi that is going 75, it doesn't take much to accidentally hit 90, have the AP disengage and then punish you by not letting you use it again until you stop, put it in park, then start up again. Leaving you having to pass that same semi again up the road LOL.

One tip to 68shooter - when AP badgers you to wiggle the steering wheel, one click of the volume or speed control wheels is all it takes to let it know you're not asleep at the wheel.

For long trips on interstates AP (and nav on AP) is great if you learn the limitations -- but watch out for orange poles and barrels (that AP seems to think are traffic cones if it sees them at all), just use lane-keeping and cruise control in any city freeway traffic (nav on autopilot is about 100% useless in LA traffic, since it tries to slow down to look for a gap to move over into the correct lane to take another freeway, and you get honked to death by other drivers), and remember that AP can't see or deal with things like truck tire bits or other debris in your lane ahead.

Good luck to the beta testers for the next city street FSD release. You'll probably need it..


----------



## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

ltorg said:


> Well, after a 4500 mile road trip, I logged at least two or 3 FSD anomalies per day. Most were as noted by 68shooter - especially concerning were the almost daily phantom braking events, which, in one instance, almost got me rear-ended by a semi in Phoenix. Add to 68shooter's list the fact that the brainless lane-keeping algorithm always puts the car in what it thinks is the center of the lane, and that means being too close to trucks, k-rails in the left lane where there is no shoulder, and drunken swerving every time the right hand white line drifts off to the right for an offramp.
> 
> But there were a couple of new ones I never saw before - and I have pictures - the interstate had construction work on the opposing side, so they had diverted the oncoming traffic into what would normally be the passing lane, with orange posts marking the temporary one-lane condition. No only did the AP not see the orange posts on the left every 50 feet or so, it kept trying to steer me into the passing lane into oncoming traffic! Lesson learned: *do NOT let the FSD do automatic lane changes*.
> 
> ...


Nice synopsis! Using any of the driver assistance features in a construction zone is begging for trouble. It needlessly endangers you, other motorists, and construction workers. Please, Tesla owners, take control when in construction areas.


----------

