# Black Hole of Politics



## RSSFeed

*Elon Musk says that he will stop advising President Trump if US leaves Paris climate accord*










President Donald Trump has been talking about pulling the U.S. out of the Paris climate change agreement since the election, but he had yet to formally confirm or initiate the move.

Today, rumors came out that he made the decision of pulling out and that it is now only about how they plan to do so.

Tesla CEO Elon Musk, who is on the President's Strategic and Policy Forum and manufacturing council, has been advising the President to stay committed to the Paris agreement and he now threatens to quit the councils if the rumors are true. more…

















Continue reading...


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## JBsC6

Like anyone gives a crap...Musk...your threats are meaningless...

Leave the political agendas to the crooked politicians..


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## Jayc

Not meaningless but counter-productive should / if trump then starts to make life harder for Tesla. As the old saying goes keep your friends close and your enemies, even closer.


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## Michael Russo

Jayc said:


> Not meaningless but counter-productive should / if trump then starts to make life harder for Tesla. As the old saying goes keep your friends close and your enemies, even closer.


There is nothing to be gained for America to make life harder for T≡SLA so that would make little sense. On the other hand, there is little value for Elon to waste his time trying to advise someone who shows he does not want to listen.
I'll say no more to respect our rules... yet be sure my fingers are burning soooo hot, I have to apologize to y'all for the extra CO2 emissions...


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## Gilberto Pe-Curto

Jayc said:


> Not meaningless but counter-productive should / if trump then starts to make life harder for Tesla. As the old saying goes keep your friends close and your enemies, even closer.


By Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"


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## ModFather

RESIST!


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## Topher

Mixed feelings. It is good to have sensible people advising nonsensical leaders. But only if they listen, otherwise it is a waste of Elon's valuable time.

That said, *No one* can stop us from buying electric cars, putting up Solar panels, adding storage, planting trees, drastically reducing miles flown, and on, and on. *No one* can prevent us from imposing a Carbon tax on ourselves. *NO ONE* can keep us from saving the planet. The Paris Agreement is just politicians posturing, we would have to do the real work anyway.

Thank you kindly.


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## MelindaV

Elon's stand is ex-wife approved:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/870104661075808257
(I'm not sure DJT understands what the Paris Agreement is)


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## pjfw8

MelindaV said:


> Elon's stand is ex-wife approved:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/870104661075808257
> (I'm not sure DJT understands what the Paris Agreement is)


I am a life-long Republican (not a Tea Party newcomer) and a retired elected state official. Trump is a constant embarrassment! I don't want this forum to be political, but there is something wrong about Trump. I apologize in advance to my brothers and sisters and will never do another political post.


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## ModFather

MelindaV said:


> (I'm not sure DJT understands what the Paris Agreement is)





pjfw8 said:


> Trump is a constant embarrassment!,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but there is something wrong about Trump.


COVFEFE


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## ModFather

As the US abdicates as a world leader on climate change, Governor Jerry Brown is traveling to China to negotiate a climate deal on behalf of the nation-State California, the 5th largest economy in the world. Other Western States may decide to join in. Incompetence creates opportunities. Perhaps Elon will agree to sit on California's board of economic advisors.


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## Guy Weathersby

Gilberto Pe-Curto said:


> By Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"


Nope. https://www.quora.com/Who-said-Keep-your-friends-close-and-your-enemies-closer


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## RSSFeed

*US pulls out of Paris Agreement, despite tremendous public support for staying in*









Mr. Trump has announced that he will pull the US out of the Paris Climate Agreement, effective today. Despite the vast majority of Americans support remaining in the Agreement by a 5:1 margin, and even a 2:1 margin among Republicans, Mr. Trump claimed that the decision to pull out was born of a desire to follow the will of the people. 
The US will consider re-entering the Agreement after "negotiating a new deal" which is more "fair" to the US. It is unclear what is "unfair" about the Paris Agreement, as the Agreement itself does not set any specific goals for the US or any other country.

more…

















Continue reading...


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## SSonnentag

Kudos to Trump for getting the US out of an unfair agreement. While we should continue to pursue clean energy, sticking the taxpayers with an unfair bill to fund the ineptitude of miscellaneous foreign countries is not beneficial to either the climate or the taxpayers. Good job!


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## MelindaV

CA, OR, WA already have state regulations that are more stringent the Paris Agreement.


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## Michael Russo

MelindaV said:


> CA, OR, WA already have state regulations that are more stringent the Paris Agreement.


The 'Clean West'!!


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## MelindaV

yeah, it used to be wild, now more clean


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## Michael Russo

MelindaV said:


> yeah, it used to be wild, now more clean


You read my mind, oh Great RC Pic Huntress!


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## garsh

@SSonnentag, we try to make an effort to keep political arguments off of this website. I am not disagreeing with your view - I would just prefer to have those sorts of discussions somewhere else.


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## Michael Russo

Andreas Stephens said:


> Remember me?!?
> 
> I am the guy who cued for two days to be the first person in the world to register for the Model 3. I did so FIRST AND FOREMOST due to my concerns about CLIMATE CHANGE.
> 
> Today's announcement by Donald Trump to withdraw from the Paris Climate Change agreement is making me SERIOUSLY consider cancelling my reservation.
> 
> While I would hate to hurt a business or an industry that I strongly believe is part of the solution to climate change, I find the direction that the DSA (Dis-united States of America) is taking today contrary to the interest of my child and future generations.
> 
> If Trump does not want people to buy the BEST products, but to simply buy AMERICAN, by the same logic, he is telling me to not buy a TESLA, but some other second grade product that is manufactured locally (not that ANY cars are still being manufactured in Australia).
> 
> Anyway, my FIRM registration is now under review and my previously high level of conviction of DOING THE RIGHT THING by ordering a Telsa has turned into self-doubt and disappointment.
> 
> I would not be surprised if Tesla is going to receive a flood of registration cancellations out of Europe. As a Tesla shareholder (also under review), I am quite concerned.
> 
> I for one would think that Elon Musk resigning from any formal or informal advisory position he holds with the Trump administration would actually make me feel more inclined to maintain the registration.


I fully share some of your angst, yet I don't know why cancelling your reservation, which you felt strongly about having a positive impact, would make sense now, just because somebody takes the wrong decision for the planet - and for the country - which will have the absolute contrary effect!


SoFlaModel3 said:


> Elon already tweeted announcing he will no longer be an advisor to Donald Trump.
> (...) If anything now more than ever it is truly important that you buy a Tesla (or other EV).


Absolutely! Definitely sleep on it a few weeks, Andreas...


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## Mirek

SoFlaModel3 said:


> Elon already tweeted announcing he will no longer be an advisor to Donald Trump.
> 
> At the risk of bringing politics into this (sorry). I will not ever base a decision on that wack job president. I suspect he will not be president too much longer. If anything now more than ever it is truly important that you buy a Tesla (or other EV).


why would't he be a president?


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## RSSFeed

*In response to US pulling out of Paris Agreement, US states step in to commit to protecting the environment and their citizens*



















Hot on the heels of Donald Trump's decision to bow to fossil fuel industry pressure and pull out of the Paris Climate Agreement against the wishes of the American people, three US states have announced a coalition to continue implementing the goals of the Paris Agreement.

California Governor Jerry Brown, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, and Washington Governor Jay Inslee announced the creation of the group called the "United States Climate Alliance" and the three states, which together represent a quarter of US GDP and more than 20% of the nation's population (but only about 10% of its carbon emissions), are inviting other states to join them.










Continue reading...


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## Andreas Stephens

SoFlaModel3 said:


> Elon already tweeted announcing he will no longer be an advisor to Donald Trump.
> 
> At the risk of bringing politics into this (sorry). I will not ever base a decision on that wack job president. I suspect he will not be president too much longer. If anything now more than ever it is truly important that you buy a Tesla (or other EV).


I will maintain my reservation for the time being, especially given that Elon has indeed resigned from his advisory position - something I was unaware of at the time of my original post.

This has definitely restored my faith in Elon, even though my faith in humanity remains severely shattered today.

Whether we like it or not, this has everything to do with politics. Economics and politics - especially in our global economy - are inseparably entwined with each other- and frankly, the world can not afford to wait for America to get its act together.

In a democracy, YOUR president represents YOU, so as long as YOU elect Trump, don't call him a wack job - HE is YOUR responsibility! Don't hide meekly behind a "Not my President" placard. If that does not work - and so far it has not - do something that is more effective.

I understand the argument about looking at the long term and not get distracted by "noise". At the same time, if there is no reaction to Trumps environmental vandalism, who says there will be any change?

I look at his appointment as head of the EPA and the reaction to that - and I must say from where I stand, from what I can see - there isn't any. So I need to draw the line somewhere.

Here in Australia, we actually had an Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS), until our Trump (his name was Tony Abbott) came along and abolished it. By now Tony Abbott is no longer our Prime Minister, but an ETS has become political poison here in Australia and is no longer on the political agenda.

So thinking that getting rid of Trump will resolve this is perhaps not appreciating the long-term implications this will have.

Like you say, now more than ever it is truly important that I buy a Tesla (or other EV)

Yes could not agree more, but as you write "or other EV" - this is something I - as a world citizen - need to consider now.


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## Mirek

Andreas Stephens said:


> Remember me?!?
> 
> I am the guy who cued for two days to be the first person in the world to register for the Model 3. I did so FIRST AND FOREMOST due to my concerns about CLIMATE CHANGE.
> 
> Today's announcement by Donald Trump to withdraw from the Paris Climate Change agreement is making me SERIOUSLY consider cancelling my reservation.
> 
> While I would hate to hurt a business or an industry that I strongly believe is part of the solution to climate change, I find the direction that the DSA (Dis-united States of America) is taking today contrary to the interest of my child and future generations.
> 
> If Trump does not want people to buy the BEST products, but to simply buy AMERICAN, by the same logic, he is telling me to not buy a TESLA, but some other second grade product that is manufactured locally (not that ANY cars are still being manufactured in Australia).
> 
> Anyway, my FIRM registration is now under review and my previously high level of conviction of DOING THE RIGHT THING by ordering a Telsa has turned into self-doubt and disappointment.
> 
> I would not be surprised if Tesla is going to receive a flood of registration cancellations out of Europe. As a Tesla shareholder (also under review), I am quite concerned.
> 
> I for one would think that Elon Musk resigning from any formal or informal advisory position he holds with the Trump administration would actually make me feel more inclined to maintain the registration.


Sorry to say, Trump made a right decision.


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## Daliman

I am disagreeing. Read Cleantecnica article and links to actual language of agreement. Nothing claimed above is in agreement. California has strict climate regs which have promoted prosperity. Normally no political comments but today is too significant.


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## Andreas Stephens

Mirek said:


> Sorry to say, Trump made a right decision.


Believe me, I am way more sorry to say that no, he has not.

I think you will discover that far from saving or creating jobs, this ill considered decision will cost The DSA dearly.


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## SoFlaModel3

Mirek said:


> why would't he be a president?


Well like I said, I didn't mean to get into politics here, but my gut feeling says he is impeached before he makes it 4 years.



Andreas Stephens said:


> I will maintain my reservation for the time being, especially given that Elon has indeed resigned from his advisory position - something I was unaware of at the time of my original post.
> 
> This has definitely restored my faith in Elon, even though my faith in humanity remains severely shattered today.
> 
> Whether we like it or not, this has everything to do with politics. Economics and politics - especially in our global economy - are inseparably entwined with each other- and frankly, the world can not afford to wait for America to get its act together.
> 
> In a democracy, YOUR president represents YOU, so as long as YOU elect Trump, don't call him a wack job - HE is YOUR responsibility! Don't hide meekly behind a "Not my President" placard. If that does not work - and so far it has not - do something that is more effective.
> 
> I understand the argument about looking at the long term and not get distracted by "noise". At the same time, if there is no reaction to Trumps environmental vandalism, who says there will be any change?
> 
> I look at his appointment as head of the EPA and the reaction to that - and I must say from where I stand, from what I can see - there isn't any. So I need to draw the line somewhere.
> 
> Here in Australia, we actually had an Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS), until our Trump (his name was Tony Abbott) came along and abolished it. By now Tony Abbott is no longer our Prime Minister, but an ETS has become political poison here in Australia and is no longer on the political agenda.
> 
> So thinking that getting rid of Trump will resolve this is perhaps not appreciating the long-term implications this will have.
> 
> Like you say, now more than ever it is truly important that I buy a Tesla (or other EV)
> 
> Yes could not agree more, but as you write "or other EV" - this is something I - as a world citizen - need to consider now.


Glad to hear you're keeping your reservation and faith has been restored in Elon.

As to the rest. No, I believe strongly that I can say not my president. Our elections are flawed. Our president did not receive the most votes. The electoral college is a joke. I could go on and on, but I digress. Our biggest challenge is a lack of candidates period. Voting being the "lesser of two evils" to run the supposed greatest nation well simply makes us not the greatest nation.

Hopefully we will do better next time around.


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## ModFather

MelindaV said:


> CA, OR, WA already have state regulations that are more stringent the Paris Agreement.


Yes, exactly, and what better position than leading by example to negotiate with the Chinese and the rest of the world to address climate change. Governor Brown has demonstrated he knows how to negotiate on the political stage..

People who think that doing something about climate change is too expensive also understand the meaning of the word COVFEFE!


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## EVfusion

Andreas Stephens said:


> Today's announcement by Donald Trump to withdraw from the Paris Climate Change agreement is making me SERIOUSLY consider cancelling my reservation.


Fortunately I realise that today's venture into reckless symbolism is not representative of American attitudes to climate change. The response requires considered action, not more symbolism. 
As another Australian also concerned about my grand-children's future, my Model 3 reservation remains rock solid. After delivery (not expected until February 2019) I had planned to offer my three adult children financial subsidies to accelerate their purchase of an EV (all three are committed to the need for climate action and two are currently Prius owners). Following today's announcement I realise I need to bring my action forward and plan to raise with them immediately the benefits of each making a Model 3 reservation; now.


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## BigBri

I'd also point out that Paris is a guideline. It's not carved in marble. If something was hurting the economy it could've been ignored or altered. All the more reason to buy a Tesla and use LED bulbs and be eco friendly where possible.


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## Andreas Stephens

Fun_for_the_grandkids said:


> Fortunately I realise that today's venture into reckless symbolism is not representative of American attitudes to climate change. The response requires considered action, not more symbolism.
> As another Australian also concerned about my grand-children's future, my Model 3 reservation remains rock solid. After delivery (not expected until February 2019) I had planned to offer my three adult children financial subsidies to accelerate their purchase of an EV (all three are committed to the need for climate action and two are currently Prius owners). Following today's announcement I realise I need to bring my action forward and plan to raise with them immediately the benefits of each making a Model 3 reservation; now.


The question then is who wins? Trump or the environment?

HE could use YOUR post to PROVE that HIS actions are indeed creating MORE jobs in MURICA.

With so much success, he might even get in for a second term!


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## SoFlaModel3

Andreas Stephens said:


> The question then is who wins? Trump or the environment?
> 
> HE could use YOUR post to PROVE that HIS actions are indeed creating MORE jobs in MURICA.
> 
> With so much success, he might even get in for a second term!


So let's really be real here.

He has the lowest approval rating in history. He's very likely to be impeached. Also the actual withdrawal won't happen for a while.

Fear not, this will be reversed before too much damage is done.


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## RickDeckard

_"Today's announcement by Donald Trump to withdraw from the Paris Climate Change agreement is making me SERIOUSLY consider cancelling my reservation."_

In my opinion, the US being in the Paris agreement or not, is not the drama the media and people are making it out to be. Tesla will still be selling Model 3 around the world regardless, not because a politician makes a photo op in Paris, but because its better, safer, less maintenance, etc. Electric Semi Truck will be replacing diesel trucks soon, not because a person shakes a hand with a smile, but because electric vehicles' efficiency will save transport company a lot of money and hassle. China is converting to electric transport, this was and is underway before and regardless of any international agreement, because it solves real problems. Solar will continue to grow because its getting more efficient and cheaper. Many things are getting better and better. :rainbow:

Dont get me wrong, International wishes, promises by politicians, a nice speech at the UN, its all good, Im all for it and Im happy other countries will agree to the agreement.


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## Mark Eldridge

SSonnentag said:


> Kudos to Trump for getting the US out of an unfair agreement. While we should continue to pursue clean energy, sticking the taxpayers with an unfair bill to fund the ineptitude of miscellaneous foreign countries is not beneficial to either the climate or the taxpayers. Good job!


The ineptitude of this comment is staggering. The US is by far the largest emitter of pollution that this agreement is trying to address and it is just for the US to play an active/leadership role in the process. To leave the agreement that every other nation signed up to, largely because of US and Chinese leadership at the time of the accord, is heartbreaking. It would take 4.5 planet earths to sustain everyone on the planet if they used the same amount of natural resources US citizens do.


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## EVfusion

Andreas Stephens said:


> The question then is who wins? Trump or the environment?
> 
> HE could use YOUR post to PROVE that HIS actions are indeed creating MORE jobs in MURICA.
> 
> With so much success, he might even get in for a second term!


Andreas, sadly boosting EV sales (even of US-produced vehicles) was not the aim of the announcement. I have faith in common sense and the majority of Americans so I believe that ultimately the environment will win, despite today's grand-standing.
Anyway, if I were to cancel I would be cutting my nose to spite my face.
I want a Model 3 - I think it is a stunning vehicle. For me it is the first truly practical and affordable (well nearly) EV available.


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## $ Trillion Musk

IMO buying a Tesla is the right thing to do when it comes to saving our children's future. Not sure why politics should play any part in this decision. 

Anyway, the Paris Agreement ain't nearly enough to save our species from climate disaster and possible mass extinction. Trump's latest move makes no difference whatsoever. But we can save that for another conversation.


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## NoVADrew

Andreas Stephens said:


> Remember me?!?
> 
> I am the guy who cued for two days to be the first person in the world to register for the Model 3. I did so FIRST AND FOREMOST due to my concerns about CLIMATE CHANGE.
> 
> Today's announcement by Donald Trump to withdraw from the Paris Climate Change agreement is making me SERIOUSLY consider cancelling my reservation.
> 
> While I would hate to hurt a business or an industry that I strongly believe is part of the solution to climate change, I find the direction that the DSA (Dis-united States of America) is taking today contrary to the interest of my child and future generations.
> 
> If Trump does not want people to buy the BEST products, but to simply buy AMERICAN, by the same logic, he is telling me to not buy a TESLA, but some other second grade product that is manufactured locally (not that ANY cars are still being manufactured in Australia).
> 
> Anyway, my FIRM registration is now under review and my previously high level of conviction of DOING THE RIGHT THING by ordering a Telsa has turned into self-doubt and disappointment.
> 
> I would not be surprised if Tesla is going to receive a flood of registration cancellations out of Europe. As a Tesla shareholder (also under review), I am quite concerned.
> 
> I for one would think that Elon Musk resigning from any formal or informal advisory position he holds with the Trump administration would actually make me feel more inclined to maintain the registration.


Seeing as California, New York and Oregon just tonight formed the United States Climate Alliance and are recruiting other states to join for the purpose of re-affirming those states commitments to the Paris Accords, there's little to be up in arms at Tesla about. California alone has double the GDP of Australia and is already reaching 80% renewable generation during midday peaks, so it's hard to find a more progressive place for Tesla to be based.

America is an enormous place with a bizarre political system. The majority of Americans did not want or vote for the clown in office and, if not for foreign intervention and mistakes by our own FBI, we wouldn't have him.

Finally, as someone from Australia, which is the 4th greatest polluter per capita after Qatar, Kuwat, and the UAE... step down off your high horse about America for a second and work to make a difference over there.


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## ModFather

Two thumbs up, WAY UP!


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## $ Trillion Musk

All symbolic. No significant impact. 

#indifference


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## EVfusion

NoVADrew said:


> Seeing as California, New York and Oregon just tonight formed the United States Climate Alliance and are recruiting other states to join for the purpose of re-affirming those states commitments to the Paris Accords, there's little to be up in arms at Tesla about. California alone has double the GDP of Australia and is already reaching 80% renewable generation during midday peaks, so it's hard to find a more progressive place for Tesla to be based. ... Finally, as someone from Australia, which is the 4th greatest polluter per capita after Qatar, Kuwat, and the UAE... step down off your high horse about America for a second and work to make a difference over there.


 Strongly agree. 
We can encourage politicians to do the right thing but there's no guarantee of success. Federally Australia has little to be proud of in terms of climate policy. The example of the US States you've quoted is impressive. Generally that is not the case in Australia, although SA and NSW are making an effort. In the ACT where I live we expect the grid to use 100% renewables by 2020, 5 years ahead of previous target. But that is an exception.
As you say, ultimately it's up to each of us to do what we can to bring about change.


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## Johnm6875

I am heartened by the articles I read about the cost of electricity from renewable sources bettering fossil fuel prices, batteries bettering gasoline and diesel, EV's bettering ICE vehicles, etc. Various manufactures are making big plans to compete (2020!). We are no longer dependent on tax credits to advance the revolution. No longer dependent on any single government to move ahead. It becomes more and more obvious sustainability just makes sense and is inevitable. 
Actions taken today by politicians will not fatally impact the final better result. Yes, I'm an optimist and I will continue pecking away on a personal level to bring about that better result.


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## MapGuy

Andreas Stephens said:


> I will maintain my reservation for the time being, especially given that Elon has indeed resigned from his advisory position - something I was unaware of at the time of my original post.
> 
> This has definitely restored my faith in Elon, even though my faith in humanity remains severely shattered today.
> 
> Whether we like it or not, this has everything to do with politics. Economics and politics - especially in our global economy - are inseparably entwined with each other- and frankly, the world can not afford to wait for America to get its act together.
> 
> In a democracy, YOUR president represents YOU, so as long as YOU elect Trump, don't call him a wack job - HE is YOUR responsibility! Don't hide meekly behind a "Not my President" placard. If that does not work - and so far it has not - do something that is more effective.
> 
> I understand the argument about looking at the long term and not get distracted by "noise". At the same time, if there is no reaction to Trumps environmental vandalism, who says there will be any change?
> 
> I look at his appointment as head of the EPA and the reaction to that - and I must say from where I stand, from what I can see - there isn't any. So I need to draw the line somewhere.
> 
> Here in Australia, we actually had an Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS), until our Trump (his name was Tony Abbott) came along and abolished it. By now Tony Abbott is no longer our Prime Minister, but an ETS has become political poison here in Australia and is no longer on the political agenda.
> 
> So thinking that getting rid of Trump will resolve this is perhaps not appreciating the long-term implications this will have.
> 
> Like you say, now more than ever it is truly important that I buy a Tesla (or other EV)
> 
> Yes could not agree more, but as you write "or other EV" - this is something I - as a world citizen - need to consider now.





Andreas Stephens said:


> Remember me?!?
> 
> I am the guy who cued for two days to be the first person in the world to register for the Model 3. I did so FIRST AND FOREMOST due to my concerns about CLIMATE CHANGE.
> 
> Today's announcement by Donald Trump to withdraw from the Paris Climate Change agreement is making me SERIOUSLY consider cancelling my reservation.
> 
> While I would hate to hurt a business or an industry that I strongly believe is part of the solution to climate change, I find the direction that the DSA (Dis-united States of America) is taking today contrary to the interest of my child and future generations.
> 
> If Trump does not want people to buy the BEST products, but to simply buy AMERICAN, by the same logic, he is telling me to not buy a TESLA, but some other second grade product that is manufactured locally (not that ANY cars are still being manufactured in Australia).
> 
> Anyway, my FIRM registration is now under review and my previously high level of conviction of DOING THE RIGHT THING by ordering a Telsa has turned into self-doubt and disappointment.
> 
> I would not be surprised if Tesla is going to receive a flood of registration cancellations out of Europe. As a Tesla shareholder (also under review), I am quite concerned.
> 
> I for one would think that Elon Musk resigning from any formal or informal advisory position he holds with the Trump administration would actually make me feel more inclined to maintain the registration.


I share your concerns completely. I am not an American, so my only means of influencing US policy is to boycott American businesses and products. Will I cancel my reservation? Not at this time. Will I confirm my order when production ramps up. NO - not until the current US policy regarding Climate Change is reversed.
Unlike many members of M3OC, I don't really care about Ludicrous mode or level 5 autonomy. I've been waiting 40 years for a mass-produced, affordable, zero-emission vehicle that has decent range and the infrastructure to support it. Model 3 is still expensive, but comes closest of any vehicle to date. Kudos to Elon and the folks at Tesla.
But to think that my purchasing a single electric vehicle is going to make a lick of difference when these these billionaires are ramping up fossil fuel production is absurd. I simply cannot support their economy. Better to hang on to my life savings in order to weather the possible chaos resulting from this decision.


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## Michael Russo

NoVADrew said:


> Seeing as California, New York and Oregon just tonight formed the United States Climate Alliance and are recruiting other states to join for the purpose of re-affirming those states commitments to the Paris Accords, there's little to be up in arms at Tesla about. California alone has double the GDP of Australia and is already reaching 80% renewable generation during midday peaks, so it's hard to find a more progressive place for Tesla to be based.
> 
> America is an enormous place with a bizarre political system. The majority of Americans did not want or vote for the clown in office and, if not for foreign intervention and mistakes by our own FBI, we wouldn't have him.
> 
> Finally, as someone from Australia, which is the 4th greatest polluter per capita after Qatar, Kuwat, and the UAE... step down off your high horse about America for a second and work to make a difference over there.


@NoVADrew , was going to agree with your post until I saw your last sentence. Please let's remain courteous to eachother in all our exchanges... Thanks.


Fun_for_the_grandkids said:


> (...)
> As you say, ultimately it's up to each of us to do what we can to bring about change.


Exactly. And that is precisely what @Andreas Stephens is planning to do, even you read his subsequent posts. We're good guys, we're good... :rainbow:


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## $ Trillion Musk

Trying to take the politics away from the truth about the climate crisis.

The Paris Agreement goal of 2 degrees Celsius above the preindustrial baseline temperature is not enough to save humanity. In fact it's a bunch of rubbish.

In this segment Dr. David Wasdell lays it out clearly, brilliantly, a sobering reality check.

http://www.ecoshock.org/2015/11/facing-harsh-realities-of-now.html

Also, there is talk of major world governments (that includes President Trump & our military), S&P100 corporations, and the world's richest billionaires already preparing for the inevitable - a new world order after the devastation of sea level rise, pole shift, the geopolitical ramifications of zero arctic sea ice, etc. Ironically, they are the ones who are MOST aware - and prepared - about everything that Dr. Wasdell has stated.


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## RSSFeed

*EGEB: California triple play, wind farms and mussels, solar panel reliability scorecard, more*










_*Electrek Green Energy Brief*: A daily technical, financial and political review/analysis of important green energy news._

California Senate Passes (three) Major Clean Energy Bills - _California State Senate passed three major clean energy bills, including one that would establish a 100% renewable portfolio standard (RPS), one that would mandate solar on most new buildings in the state, and one that would create an energy storage rebate program. _It's a fitting day for California to vote on these three bills.

DNV GL releases 2017 PV Module Reliability Scorecard - Module manufacturers who were defined as 'Top Performers' (alphabetical order): *Astronergy, BYD, Flextronics, GCL, Hanwha Q CElls, Hyundai, Jinko Solar, Kyocera, LONGi, NSP, REC, S-Energy, Seaphim, Silfab, Solaria, SolarWorld, SunPower, SunSpark, Talesun, Trina Solar Vikram and Yingli* - A further quote from the conclusion: _We see several factors having a strong impact on reliability test results, including bill of materials, factory, and the importance that the manufacturer places on quality and reliability._

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## ModFather

I'm proud to be a Californican!

In response to the science deniers,
YES, it is all symbolic (and that's why it is important)
YES. it will have a significant impact (California is one of the largest "nations" in the world)

To all my friends who live across the globe, 
- don't abandon Tesla and their mission. This is a lifetime opportunity to be part of a revolution in personal transportation.
- don't abandon California, we are dragging the heartland of the US, kicking and screaming, into the new age.
- don't abandon the US, a majority of voters did not vote for POSOTUS and even fewer support him today. He won't last long because he is a crook and traitor. He is an embarrassment to us, but we Californicans are bypassing him to put us back on the path of progressive enlightenment.

Peace, out.


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## Badback

el crucero said:


> I'm proud to be a Californican!
> 
> In response to the science deniers,
> YES, it is all symbolic (and that's why it is important)
> YES. it will have a significant impact (California is one of the largest "nations" in the world)
> 
> To all my friends who live across the globe,
> - don't abandon Tesla and their mission. This is a lifetime opportunity to be part of a revolution in personal transportation.
> - don't abandon California, we are dragging the heartland of the US, kicking and screaming, into the new age.
> - don't abandon the US, a majority of voters did not vote for POSOTUS and even fewer support him today. He won't last long because he is a crook and traitor. He is an embarrassment to us, but we Californicans are bypassing him to put us back on the path of progressive enlightenment.
> 
> Peace, out.


POSOTUS? Really hilarious!!!!


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## Michael Russo

Again, closing this thread driving political statements, which, though not devoid of humor, we are aiming to avoid on this forum ad recently reminded by Trev.
Thanks fir understanding.


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## ModFather

Safe Daddy Driver said:


> The Paris Agreement goal of 2 degrees Celsius above the preindustrial baseline temperature is not enough to save humanity. In fact it's a bunch of rubbish.


Clearly the Paris Agreement doesn't go far enough. That is why tiny Nicaragua did not sign on to the agreement because of this reason. But to call it "rubbish" is rubbish. The Agreement is an important first step in addressing an issue that needs immediate attention. The next step would be to strengthen those goals. To abandon this Agreement to massage an individual ego is unforgivable.



> there is talk of major world governments (that includes President Trump & our military), S&P100 corporations, and the world's richest billionaires already preparing for the inevitable - a new world order


And that is why we must RESIST! I don't want to be part of that new world order!


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## $ Trillion Musk

I wish I was allowed to respond on the other thread where some had disagreed with my post so that I could at least justify my apathy towards Trump's decision. I'm not trying to push political agenda here... although I do sympathize with the moderators trying to keep M3OC under control.

Normally, I'd keep my mouth shut but this topic is the most important issue of our generation.

I want sea levels to stop rising and polar ice caps to stop melting and oceans to reverse acidification. The Paris Agreement won't accomplish any of that by a long shot and we've run out of time to entertain such trivial pursuits.

Let me be specific. The 2 degrees limit set by the Paris agreement is rubbish, meaning that the number "2" was essentially pulled out of a hat as some trivial benchmark for political agenda, as in "hey we're already past 1 degree so let's set the limit for 2..." In fact being under 2 degrees warmer above baseline today, we may have already passed the point of no return about a decade or two ago that nature's own feedback loops take over, and it no longer makes a difference what we do... unless we take extreme measures such as shutting down all carbon pollution today AND at the same time reverse the greenhouse effect and ocean acidification.

One can say that having the Paris Agreement is better than doing nothing at all, but to me it makes no difference if it is a non-solution. In fact it would even be counterproductive to waste valuable time and resources on a sure failure. Yet another byproduct of pure politics claiming to be a scientific + diplomatic solution.

I urge everyone to listen to the experts on this matter such as David Wasdell, Peter Wadhams, James Hansen, etc just to realize how dire the climate situation is and how Paris wouldn't make a dent. I also listen to Paul Beckwith on YouTube for summarized material: https://m.youtube.com/user/PaulHBeckwith

While the Paris Agreement does bring nations together, it doesn't do much else but create more delays and distractions. We need real solutions now, not more political hoopla.

Peace out.


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## ModFather

Safe Daddy Driver said:


> unless we take extreme measures such as shutting down all carbon pollution today AND at the same time reverse the greenhouse effect and ocean acidification.


Exactly, the situation is Code Red! Do you have the cajones to demand your representatives take extreme measures to address this situation now? I do, and I have!


> While the Paris Agreement does bring nations together, it doesn't do much else but create more delays and distractions. We need real solutions now, not more political hoopla.


What is your "real solution?" I know what mine is, RESIST the oligarchs! Our Governor, who is part of the RESIST opposition, is in China this week to negotiate a climate deal that is more aggressive and comprehensive than the Paris Agreement. Sitting around and doing nothing is not an alternative.


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## Michael Russo

Folks, though this topic is, without any doubt an absolutely essential topic for the future of our world and the well being of our children & grandchildren, it is obvious it automatically steers very passionate debates between our members which very quickly become political in nature. We will not - and should not attempt to - resolve them here. Closing the thread too.
I will send a pm to Trev to see how we can selectively restrict the Elektrek articles based on content when they cover topics which can be construed as 'political' even if at the fringes.
Thank you.


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## Curt Renz

June 1 comments from Republican ex-governor of most populous US state regarding president's disavowal of Paris Climate Accord:


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## Red Sage

JWardell said:


> Will Trump find a way to kill this off? I'm more than a little concerned EV credits could be cancelled by 2019.


He doesn't even know the difference between the EPA and NHTSA. He doesn't pay taxes, so probably doesn't know what the IRS does either. No one among traditional automobile manufacturers want the incentives to go away, just the neccessity to build compliance cars by meeting CAFE. Those guys mistakenly believe Tesla is 'DOOMED' without the incentives. I wouldn't worry about it.


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