# V9/V10 Features: Blindspot Warnings



## MelindaV

for the big Version 9 release, we are going to have dedicated feature specific threads. Please use the MEGA thread for general fw discussion, using these for known specific features once the fw is being used.


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## dragonvoi

interesting approach to this one, not quite the cool option of showing what the side camera sees when you signal but we shall see how it pans out:


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## ADK46

The email that I got moments ago says I need Full Self-Driving hardware for this to work. I did not pay the $3000 for FSD, but is it talking about something else?


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## Veedio

ADK46 said:


> The email that I got moments ago says I need Full Self-Driving hardware for this to work. I did not pay the $3000 for FSD, but is it talking about something else?


I wondered the same but I think they probably mean Autopilot 2.5 hardware which we all have (I haven't received the update yet). They could have worded it better though.


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## NEO

I rented a $31000 Nissan Rogue with blind spot detection over a year ago


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## sdmodel3

I saw, that too, that you needed to have paid $8K for a security feature on top of a premium of the car. I find that disappointing this is the case.


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## ADK46

The description is written for all Teslas, meaning some that do not have all the sensors that a Model 3 has. It may be talking about those. The word "hardware" might be important, which we have. Holding out hope. Here's the text on the website referenced by the email:

*Blindspot Monitoring*

To improve safety and increase confidence when changing lanes, cars with Full Self-Driving hardware will now display a red lane line when your turn signal is engaged and a car or obstacle is detected in your target lane. There is no change to the display for cars without Full Self-Driving hardware.
Tesla cars with Full-Self-Driving hardware will now use all eight cameras, providing a 360-degree view of surrounding cars. This includes improved blind spot monitoring on the instrument panel which reflects the type of car in your blind spot, supplementing an already attentive driver.
https://www.tesla.com/support/software-v9


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## sdmodel3

Gotcha.. so, we have the hardware but may not need the subscription for it to work. Thanks for the clarification.


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## TrevorK

Edit: ADK beat me to this, but to reiterate:

From the email (after clicking through for more details):

*Blindspot Monitoring*
To improve safety and increase confidence when changing lanes, cars with Full Self-Driving hardware will now display a red lane line when your turn signal is engaged and a car or obstacle is detected in your target lane. There is no change to the display for cars without Full Self-Driving hardware.

Tesla cars with Full-Self-Driving hardware will now use all eight cameras, providing a 360-degree view of surrounding cars. This includes improved blind spot monitoring on the instrument panel which reflects the type of car in your blind spot, supplementing an already attentive driver.​Full self-driving _hardware_, which is standard on all Model 3s. I'm not certain, but I'd guess this means this feature is available to everyone, regardless of whether or not you paid for the Full Self-Driving package.


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## JWardell

I will reiterate my disappointment that the blind spot warning is only a visual red line on the display and not an audible warning when you activate your turn signals as most other cars do. Rarely do you think to look for the small visual warning (and for those with impairments, both should be there). 
Frankly, the car should be smart enough to avoid the collision and tug the wheel away.
Of course, I'm sure this will all come in due time.


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## MelindaV

JWardell said:


> and for those with impairments


do most states not require visual impairments be corrected in order to drive in the first place?


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## JWardell

MelindaV said:


> do most states not require visual impairments be corrected in order to drive in the first place?


Can you correct colorblindness?


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## Unplugged

JWardell said:


> I will reiterate my disappointment that the blind spot warning is only a visual red line on the display and not an audible warning when you activate your turn signals as most other cars do.


The wheel already vibrates for moving out of the lane without using the turn signal. Why not incorporate the steering wheel vibration into the blind spot alert? It could be more pronounced, but it would go on if there was a vehicle detected.


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## garsh

MelindaV said:


> do most states not require visual impairments be corrected in order to drive in the first place?


Only to some minimal level.


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## ADK46

When attempting to move to the left lane, Tesla wants me to look to the right and study the display, then turn my eyes towards the mirror? Or the opposite? Look only at the screen? Just turn on auto-steer and don't look? 

A fifth option, apparently not possible on a Tesla: The new car I got last year has a very prominent yellow warning light on the mirror that comes on when there's a car in my blind spot. If I turn on the blinker, it will flash - impossible to miss or ignore. 

Tesla should implement something that serves the same purpose - resistance felt in the wheel, a warning sound, something.


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## SoFlaModel3

ADK46 said:


> When attempting to move to the left lane, Tesla wants me to look to the right and study the display, then turn my eyes towards the mirror? Or the opposite? Look only at the screen? Just turn on auto-steer and don't look?
> 
> A fifth option, apparently not possible on a Tesla: The new car I got last year has a very prominent yellow warning light on the mirror that comes on when there's a car in my blind spot. If I turn on the blinker, it will flash - impossible to miss or ignore.
> 
> Tesla should implement something that serves the same purpose - resistance felt in the wheel, a warning sound, something.


My assumption is that either an audible alert or vibration in the wheel or both will come with a future update.


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## MelindaV

ADK46 said:


> A fifth option, apparently not possible on a Tesla: The new car I got last year has a very prominent yellow warning light on the mirror that comes on when there's a car in my blind spot. If I turn on the blinker, it will flash - impossible to miss or ignore.


If it was something flashing at me, I would hate it. Things like that make some people sick, and I really don't want to attempt not to throw up whenever changing lanes.


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## ADK46

The flashing only occurs when I've done something wrong - turned on my blinker to change lanes when I shouldn't change lanes. I try very hard not to do that, so it's only happened two or three times in the past year, when I've allowed an assumption to reverse the proper order of checking then signaling. Only when wanting to move right, since the steady warning light on the right mirror is out of my peripheral vision.


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## iChris93

ADK46 said:


> The flashing only occurs when I've done something wrong - turned on my blinker to change lanes when I shouldn't change lanes. I try very hard not to do that, so it's only happened two or three times in the past year, when I've allowed an assumption to reverse the proper order of checking then signaling. Only when wanting to move right, since the steady warning light on the right mirror is out of my peripheral vision.


What if there are two left turn lanes and you're in the one on the right?


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## ADK46

Doesn't flash or give the steady light unless you're going over a certain speed. At least, I've never seen it do anything other than what you'd want it to do, stop you from cutting off someone in your blind spot. I've come to trust it, perhaps too much - I find myself not checking as carefully when I'm in another car, including the M3. 

It works off cameras mounted on the mirrors. Another option I splurged on was the 360° surround view like that promised (?) for V.9. It works off two more wide-angle cameras, front and rear. Great for maneuvering and grading your paper on parking space position.


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## MelindaV

ADK46 said:


> Another option I splurged on was the 360° surround view like that promised (?) for V.9


What is the source for this being promised in v9?


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## SoFlaModel3

MelindaV said:


> What is the source for this being promised in v9?


The release notes say "360 view", but it doesn't imply "video" 360 view. This refers to the car being moved forward in the display allowing you to see cars around you as part of blindspot monitoring.


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## MelindaV

SoFlaModel3 said:


> The release notes say "360 view", but it doesn't imply "video" 360 view. This refers to the car being moved forward in the display allowing you to see cars around you as part of blindspot monitoring.


So people are misunderstanding that blind spot note as 360 video parking assistance?


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## SoFlaModel3

MelindaV said:


> So people are misunderstanding that blind spot note as 360 video parking assistance?


That's the only reference that I've seen to "360" and it was very clearly worded that it was an aide in blind spot monitoring.


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## ADK46

There are actually two references: see the page linked in Post #7. The opening section says "...and the instrument cluster now displays a 360-degree view of surrounding cars." (Do we have an instrument cluster?)


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## SoFlaModel3

ADK46 said:


> There are actually two references: see the page linked in Post #7. The opening section says "...and the instrument cluster now displays a 360-degree view of surrounding cars." (Do we have an instrument cluster?)


The instrument cluster is the left 1/3 of the screen on Model 3 and 360 view is in reference to the car moving forward and showing passing cars from the rear on either side.


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## Zamboni52

I wonder if Summon will be better when pulling into tight spaces since more the cameras can now be used in addition to the ultrasonic sensors. I need to back my car into the garage because of the location of my charger and sometimes Summon quits even if it is in "tight" mode.


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## garsh

iChris93 said:


> What if there are two left turn lanes and you're in the one on the right?


Ugh. My wife's Hyundai is always complaining at us in that situation. Annoying.


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## NJturtlePower

JWardell said:


> I will reiterate my disappointment that the blind spot warning is only a visual red line on the display and not an audible warning when you activate your turn signals as most other cars do. Rarely do you think to look for the small visual warning (and for those with impairments, both should be there).
> Frankly, the car should be smart enough to avoid the collision and tug the wheel away.
> Of course, I'm sure this will all come in due time.


Agreed...there need to be an audible tone. SOOOO many cars much less advanced have this standard along with an indicator light on the side view mirrors which is the obvious spot to look when switching lanes.

My previous (Chrysler 300) only alerted via tone if signal was made with traffic in the blindspot...saved MANY near misses!!!

Make it happen Tesla!


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## JWardell

I should note I'm GLAD there are no lights on the mirrors. As these blindspot warning lights are on all the time when a car is driving alongside, and basically turning on an off throughout a drive, my brain learns to ignore them. Yes, it is a better place for a visual warning than on the dash, but an audible or wheel vibration warning is much more effective.


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## aronth5

JWardell said:


> I should note I'm GLAD there are no lights on the mirrors. As these blindspot warning lights are on all the time when a car is driving alongside, and basically turning on an off throughout a drive, my brain learns to ignore them. Yes, it is a better place for a visual warning than on the dash, but an audible or wheel vibration warning is much more effective.


Agree, my wife's car immediately sounds a fairly pleasant audible tone when you put the blinker on when there is a car close by. Very simple and effective.


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## Dogwhistle

If the blind spot display is reliable enough, as it should be the closer they get to self-driving, I’m sure it will eventually be easy enough to just glance down and check your blind spot on the monitor vs craning your neck around to the left to look. That’s good enough for me, don’t see the need for beeps or flashing lights if this works.


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## aronth5

Dogwhistle said:


> If the blind spot display is reliable enough, as it should be the closer they get to self-driving, I'm sure it will eventually be easy enough to just glance down and check your blind spot on the monitor vs craning your neck around to the left to look. That's good enough for me, don't see the need for beeps or flashing lights if this works.


Simple solution is to have an optional alert parameter so the driver can select what they prefer. Problem solved.


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## MelindaV

Dogwhistle said:


> If the blind spot display is reliable enough, as it should be the closer they get to self-driving, I'm sure it will eventually be easy enough to just glance down and check your blind spot on the monitor vs craning your neck around to the left to look. That's good enough for me, don't see the need for beeps or flashing lights if this works.


Please look at over your shoulder. This is for the 'blind spot', not the 'entire area your will be moving to' warning.


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## woodisgood

Every time someone uses "Summons" instead of "Summon," a Tesla robot loses its wings.


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## Dogwhistle

MelindaV said:


> Please look at over your shoulder. This is for the 'blind spot', not the 'entire area your will be moving to' warning.


I still do for now. The point is, at some point the next lane clearing detection system has to be good enough to clear the area itself with no intervention on our part as we progress to FSD. Perhaps its pretty much there now with the additional camera activation? I imagine at some point the on-screen representation will, in fact, be good enough. Especially for the area not covered by the mirrors, and I can save on neck pain. Like anything with AP, will have to see how it works in real life to determine what is actually safe and reasonably reliable.


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## ADK46

Public Service Announcement - best practice for mirror adjustments:

Side mirrors should be set so you can just barely see the rear of your car - that is, as far outwards as possible without leaving a coverage gap with the center mirror. The idea is to get the widest view possible among the three mirrors, and therefore minimize the blind spots. 

Seems obvious to me now, but I must admit that for most of my 50 years of driving, I did not set my mirrors this way.


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## KenF

My experience on a Model 3 with V9 — as currently implemented, the “blind spot warning” feature is virtually useless. I have no way to tell whether a car is in my blind spot because the “360 view” on the Model 3 display is not in my line of sight, and there is no audible alert or alarm when I hit the turn signal. To make this feature useful on the Model 3, Tesla needs to add some sort of an audible alert.


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## Slumbreon

ADK46 said:


> Side mirrors should be set so you can just barely see the rear of your car - that is, as far outwards as possible without leaving a coverage gap with the center mirror. The idea is to get the widest view possible among the three mirrors, and therefore minimize the blind spots..


Yes, if only the driver's mirrors would go out that far for me. I am of non-standard height and unfortunately, mirror position is not great - all the way out and I still have a blind spot which I didn't have on my Altima. Plan on talking to service to see if it can be adjusted.


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## garsh

Slumbreon said:


> Yes, if only the driver's mirrors would go out that far for me. I am of non-standard height...


I'm of standard height, and I agree that the mirrors won't adjust outward as far as I prefer.


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## Vin

One thing I do often for now is drive with the rear camera in display instead of map. That wide angle is much better than the side mirrors and I tested when a car disappears in the mirror vs. rear camera. The camera display covers the entire car until it's clearly visible next to you.
So when in doubt turn on the camera. I still look over my shoulder out of habit but the camera display gives me the confidence of when to get ready to make my move.


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## garsh

Vin said:


> So when in doubt turn on the camera. I still look over my shoulder out of habit but the camera display gives me the confidence of when to get ready to make my move.


The rear camera does not cover the blind spot. Please, PLEASE continue to look over your shoulder.


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## Vin

I don't know why we can't just have the blindspot camera (or any camera) set to display at all times in our center screen, even if small so we can at least see if there's a car there. It could even highlight it red (kind of like the view we see in the older full self driving video where objects have a green box around them)


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## MelindaV

I don't know why it is so difficult about looking before you change lanes. 

I feel like I am in a shrinking minority of people who look over their shoulder, check the mirror and look a second time before changing lanes.


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## KarenRei

JWardell said:


> Can you correct colorblindness?


Yes.


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## Vin

MelindaV said:


> I don't know why it is so difficult about looking before you change lanes.
> 
> I feel like I am in a shrinking minority of people who look over their shoulder, check the mirror and look a second time before changing lanes.


I agree that looking over the shoulder is best most of the time (and I do that), but there are some situations where looking by turning your head away from the front of the road actually seems more dangerous.
For example I had to quickly swerve around a car that stopped suddenly because they decided to put on their left turn signal immediately after we both turned right around a corner. I had to swerve around them and didn't have time to turn my head to look over my shoulder.
Luckily the handling of the 3 is amazing and probably saved me from an accident, and I knew there wasn't a car in the right lane where I had to swerve to but what if I didn't know that.
I do agree that a steering wheel vibration or chime would be more affective than a visual/camera but I'd like to have it all to be honest, and I would still look over my shoulder if possible.
Sometimes there are those instances where it seems more dangerous to turn around to look over our shoulder or when we don't have the time to. (although i do admit i have to resist punching the accelerator at times


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## ADK46

MelindaV said:


> ... I feel like I am in a shrinking minority of people who look over their shoulder, check the mirror and look a second time before changing lanes.


Time is relentless! I have several vehicles that time has given highly effective anti-theft devices. One is particularly effective:


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## zosoisnotaword

An audible alert should never be necessary. If you're relying on an audible alert to prevent you from merging into someone, you're not driving correctly. No one should ever attempt to change lanes unless you're already certain it's clear.

I agree that the red line warning is useless, but the new display is going to show avatar cars that are in your blindspot prior to a lane change attempt. It should be really simple to adjust your lane changing habits to look at the display before checking your mirrors and looking over your shoulder. If the display shows a car in your blind spot, then you know it's not clear without even having to turn your head. I'm looking forward to it.


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## NOGA$4ME

zosoisnotaword said:


> It should be really simple to adjust your lane changing habits to look at the display before checking your mirrors and looking over your shoulder.


You pretty much summed up what I was thinking. This is basically just a workflow change. Once you decide you want to change lanes, you glance over at the center display and check for red lanes/vehicles in blindspot. If you see them, you wait. If you don't, you then turn your head to check your mirrors and over your shoulder, then turn on your blinker and either let auto lane change take over, or make the turn manually yourself while double checking the adjacent lane.

The only caveat I will add is that with modern safety standards and aerodynamic requirements, rear and side visibility continues to get worse. So yes, it's always important to check out your side, but it is not necessary bad driving technique to rely on technology as well.


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## JWardell

KarenRei said:


> Yes.


I thought of those, but they are not commonplace like prescription glasses are. They kind of work for some, not for others, and certainly not as common as 1 in 4 people. Not to mention very expensive, and only really work outdoors.
Society needs to put a little more effort into its displays to think about those who can't differentiate red and green.
Then again, every traffic light is in violation...


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## MarkB

zosoisnotaword said:


> An audible alert should never be necessary.


Correct.

But according to James Reason's "Swiss-cheese model", this would just be another layer of safety.

Hopefully it would never go off, but if it did go off, it might be the layer that causes the driver to NOT change lanes.


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## babula

Vin said:


> One thing I do often for now is drive with the rear camera in display instead of map. That wide angle is much better than the side mirrors and I tested when a car disappears in the mirror vs. rear camera. The camera display covers the entire car until it's clearly visible next to you.
> So when in doubt turn on the camera. I still look over my shoulder out of habit but the camera display gives me the confidence of when to get ready to make my move.


A lot of people have suggested this but I find it very distracting while driving.


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## zosoisnotaword

MarkB said:


> Correct.
> 
> But according to James Reason's "Swiss-cheese model", this would just be another layer of safety.
> 
> Hopefully it would never go off, but if it did go off, it might be the layer that causes the driver to NOT change lanes.


I can't disagree with that, but I do disagree with the people who think the changes aren't good enough because there's no audible alert.


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## KenF

zosoisnotaword said:


> An audible alert should never be necessary. If you're relying on an audible alert to prevent you from merging into someone, you're not driving correctly. No one should ever attempt to change lanes unless you're already certain it's clear.
> 
> I agree that the red line warning is useless, but the new display is going to show avatar cars that are in your blindspot prior to a lane change attempt. It should be really simple to adjust your lane changing habits to look at the display before checking your mirrors and looking over your shoulder. If the display shows a car in your blind spot, then you know it's not clear without even having to turn your head. I'm looking forward to it.


Where is the disagree or downvote button? I could not disagree more.

We all know that a blind spot warning indicator is no substitute for checking the rear view and side mirrors. That said, the Model 3 has a large blind spot, one of the largest of any car in its class. A car should never require the driver to take their eyes off the road to check a display before changing lanes; that is likely to cause more accidents than it prevents. Every other car manufacturer has realized this and incorporated audible blindspot warnings. Tesla should do the same.


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## Dr. J

Vin said:


> there are some situations where looking by turning your head away from the front of the road actually seems more dangerous.
> For example I had to quickly swerve around a car that stopped suddenly because they decided to put on their left turn signal immediately after we both turned right around a corner. I had to swerve around them and didn't have time to turn my head to look over my shoulder.


With respect, this means you are following too close. Who's fault would it be in the eyes of the law if you rear-ended them? Full disclosure: I do this, too, at times.


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## SoFlaModel3

Mirrors being adjusted and looking twice before changing are all well and good practices. They work when you drive with civilized people who don’t switch lanes at speed in your blind spot while the person in front of you jams on their brakes without warning. These are the people on the road near me...

Why are we arguing the merits of an “oh sh*t” warning whether by audible alert or steering wheel vibration? It’s a safety feature and it’s smart. I’m sure it could even be configurable on/off much like the lane departure warning. 

What are we hurting by providing a warning in the freak chance that someone enters your blind spot in between your checking and taking action on a lane change?


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## zosoisnotaword

KenF said:


> That said, the Model 3 has a large blind spot, one of the largest of any car in its class.


My blindspot is very small. You might try adjusting your mirrors further outward.


KenF said:


> A car should never require the driver to take their eyes off the road to check a center-mounted display


I think a lot of shorts agree with you, but I don't see many complaints from other owners. It also takes the same amount of time and is just as safe as a quick glance at a mirror.


KenF said:


> Every other car manufacturer has realized this and incorporated audible blindspot warnings. Tesla should do the same.


Discretionary. Those warnings are a defense in-depth for common sense. Forward collision audible alerts are much more of a necessity since those scenarios can be difficult to judge and can happen in a heartbeat.

Edit: Just for the record, I'm not arguing against audible warnings. I'm just trying to point out that this update is a huge improvement in blind spot awareness even without them.


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## Vin

Dr. J said:


> With respect, this means you are following too close. Who's fault would it be in the eyes of the law if you rear-ended them? Full disclosure: I do this, too, at times.


I agree, I probably was following too close. Our 3's are a double edged sword. They handle so well that it's true I tend to push it at times, but I'm not an aggressive ahole driver, trust me I'm very smooth and flow with the traffic most of the time. However once in awhile I tend to strike like a cobra for a second and then I'm back to flowing with traffic. 
I take full responsibility for my actions and do hope we have as much included in safety features as Elon will be able to upload into our cars regardless of how often we turn our heads to look or manually do anything.
(by the way is your name Dr. J a reference to the basketball player? If so he's one of my all time favorites


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## Tesla Newbie

When my friend signals right in his couple-year-old Honda Civic, the display changes to a very clear view of everything happening on the right side of the car. Any blind spot the car may have is virtually eliminated. While he secretly loves my Model 3, he enjoys making fun of us who paid multiples of the cost of his econobox for a car with all the cameras required to replicate (and hopefully improve on) that capability, but without that capability. Sure, we all need to drive carefully, defensively, and proactively, but that doesn’t negate the advantage of using technology to supplement our learned driving skills.


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## garsh

Vin said:


> ... I had to swerve around them...


Swerving is often the natural reaction, but what you probably _should_ have done is hit the brakes. You should only be changing lanes when there's enough time and space to look over your shoulder and check the blind spot. Having cameras displaying blind spots on the center screen still wouldn't make it safe to swerve into the other lane.


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## JWardell

garsh said:


> Swerving is often the natural reaction, but what you probably _should_ have done is hit the brakes. You should only be changing lanes when there's enough time and space to look over your shoulder and check the blind spot. Having cameras displaying blind spots on the center screen still wouldn't make it safe to swerve into the other lane.


"time" and "space" are two luxuries that do not exist on roads around here.
Unfortunately with the extra-large blind spots on the model 3, even with mirrors moved out beyond view of the vehicle, extra time is needed to turn your had AND move your body forward and to the side to clearly check blind spots, all that while taking your eyes off traffic in front of you that very often brakes suddenly. I've had more close calls in this car than any other. I certainly prefer the added layer of protection of an audible signal that does not require diverting eyes to yet another location. But yes, at least v9 is giving us a definite improvement, and more are sure to come.


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## ADK46

I just viewed this video showing our site creator driving around in his Model X with the new surround view display.






I think we can suspend further discussion of how this system may affect how we drive; Tesla has a long way to go on it.


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## 3V Pilot

Here is the thing about the Blind Spot Monitor and the same could be said for Autopilot, Automatic Emergency Braking, ABS or any other number of safety features. These are not and should never be used as a primary means of driving safely. In a perfect world every driver should maintain a 360 degree awareness of all traffic around them. It's not impossible, I learned how to drive in Southern California, even with all that traffic you can keep up with who is near you. That said I fully realize that we don't live in a perfect world and features like these can come in handy when the human being behind the wheel makes a mistake. The BSM may be a great driving aid for those lapses of judgement but it seems like many people are looking at it as a primary tool for safe lane changes. Until we are all on FSD (and even then I won't trust "the system") everyone should really pay attention and not change lanes unless they have verified it's safe to do so.

(Of course now that I've posted this it's probably only a matter of days until I run somebody off the road changing lanes!!!...LOL)


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## Scrutmonkey

garsh said:


> I'm of standard height, and I agree that the mirrors won't adjust outward as far as I prefer.


I've always adjusted my mirrors this way as suggested...but I've noticed, the Model 3 mirrors are a bit smaller (not wide enough) to allow for me to set them exactly right...I almost merged into a car last month. Not I really have to glance, check, and lean forward and glance again to make sure a stupid white Civic isn't next to me.


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## tipton

Vin said:


> I don't know why we can't just have the blindspot camera (or any camera) set to display at all times in our center screen, even if small so we can at least see if there's a car there. It could even highlight it red (kind of like the view we see in the older full self driving video where objects have a green box around them)


I agree and hopefully this comes in the future. My wife's Civic has a camera that displays when putting the right turn signal on. It doesn't seem like it would be too hard to give this option if you want it. For her, coming from that car she was actually really surprised Tesla didn't have this already.


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## 3V Pilot

ADK46 said:


> I just viewed this video showing our site creator driving around in his Model X with the new surround view display.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think we can suspend further discussion of how this system may affect how we drive; Tesla has a long way to go on it.


@TrevP does the frame drop happen on the 10 min saved videos also? That would really be a bummer. If you save a few of these you should be able to see if they have the missing frames......


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## KenF

Per Elon, the AP 2.5 hardware can process a maximum of 200 FPS of video. Thus, to use 8 cameras, Tesla must operate each 720p60 camera at <25 FPS.

(Elon said the AP 3 hardware would up the limit to 2000 frames per second.)


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## 3V Pilot

KenF said:


> Per Elon, the AP 2.5 hardware can process a maximum of 200 FPS of video. Thus, to use 8 cameras, Tesla must operate each 720p60 camera at <25 FPS.
> 
> (Elon said the AP 3 hardware would up the limit to 2000 frames per second.)


I believe that processing rate is in reference to what the autopilot computer can handle to make driving decisions with, not the same as raw video frame rate processing. I could be wrong but the current computer is very powerful, doubt it would have trouble with 8 video cameras (9 if you count the inside).


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## fazluke

JWardell said:


> I will reiterate my disappointment that the blind spot warning is only a visual red line on the display and not an audible


I have an S 75 loaner without EAP but with V9 and I can see cars and trucks around both sides up to two rows (they show as blocks). I am not sure what is the case with model 3


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## KenF

3V Pilot said:


> I believe that processing rate is in reference to what the autopilot computer can handle to make driving decisions with, not the same as raw video frame rate processing. I could be wrong but the current computer is very powerful, doubt it would have trouble with 8 video cameras (9 if you count the inside).


Most cameras today can operate at configurable frame rates. Given the "raw" V9 dash cam recordings are around 24fps, I suspect the AP 2.5 hardware is unable to accept a raw 60 FPS stream and then interpolate a lower frame rate for AP decisionmaking.


----------



## Dr. J

Vin said:


> (by the way is your name Dr. J a reference to the basketball player?


Probably. It's a nickname a former coworker gave me, and she was probably thinking of Julius, of whom I likewise am in awe. The nickname was not based on my sports skills.


----------



## Bokonon

I had my first [brief] experience with blindspot detection / warnings today (in conjunction with V9 Autosteer/auto-lane-change), and it was a little odd.

On a divided, four-lane state highway, with literally no other cars in sight on my side of the road, I was cruising in the left lane with Autosteer engaged, and the car's Autopilot display correctly showed two lanes. I decided that this was a great opportunity to try V9 auto-lane-change, which was not previously enabled on this highway in V8.1. So, I turned on my right blinker.

Initially, the lane marker on the right side was blue, and the but after a second it turned red, and the car did not attempt to change lanes. This was strange, given that there were no other cars on my side of the road. I cancelled the right blinker, waited a few seconds, and tried again. This time, the lane marker stayed blue for longer, and the car began to *slowly* merge into the next lane, but halfway through, the lane marker suddenly became red -- again, even though nothing was there -- and the car began to return to the left lane, with the right blinker still on.

Oh, but that wasn't the end of it.  Before completing the return to the left lane, the lane marker changed back from red to blue, and the car started to merge right again... only for the lane marker to turn red once again a second later, causing the car to abort a second time. And, yet again, the lane marker turned blue as the car returned to the left lane, so it tried merging right for a third time.... and this little jiggle-wiggle between lanes may have continued indefinitely had I not cancelled the blinker and taken control of the vehicle. (Probably a wise decision, given that a Ford pickup was approaching in my rearview mirror, probably wondering what the heck was up with the dancing Tesla... )

I don't want to draw too many conclusions from a single data point, since it's unclear to me whether blindspot detection is too sensitive or it's the combination of auto-lane-change + blindspot warning that's buggy. But my advice for anyone with 39.6 would be to exercise caution when using auto-lane-change, especially on roads where it was not enabled previously.


----------



## ADK46

I take it it did not show any vehicles during the jiggle-wiggle. How well did it show vehicles at other times? It seemed to do poorly in Trevor's video.


----------



## Unplugged

garsh said:


> Swerving is often the natural reaction, but what you probably _should_ have done is hit the brakes.


"It's better to side swipe the car next to you than to run into the back of the car in front of you." That's a maxim that we should all live by.


----------



## Vin

Actually I forgot that with V9 we can do a double tap on the center console to avoid all accidents!...


----------



## Bokonon

ADK46 said:


> I take it it did not show any vehicles during the jiggle-wiggle. How well did it show vehicles at other times? It seemed to do poorly in Trevor's video.


Apart from the screenshot in the other thread where a car in the adjacent lane appears to be side-swiping me, I've found the accuracy of the vehicle display to be on par with V8.1, except now you see vehicles all around you. Sometimes vehicles appear to elongate as they pass you, which is a little weird bit not alarming.


----------



## 350VDC

KenF said:


> Tesla needs to add some sort of an audible alert.


Totally agree. a $12000 Toyota can do this. It's not like it requires any other hardware or sensors, its just adding an audible tone to the existing alert they have spent months developing.


----------



## MGallo

KarenRei said:


> Yes.


That is so cool. I'm guessing they are not cheap since they were all gifts.


----------



## Rich M

Bokonon said:


> ...Oh, but that wasn't the end of it.  Before completing the return to the left lane, the lane marker changed back from red to blue, and the car started to merge right again... only for the lane marker to turn red once again a second later, causing the car to abort a second time. And, yet again, the lane marker turned blue as the car returned to the left lane, so it tried merging right for a third time.... and this little jiggle-wiggle between lanes may have continued indefinitely had I not cancelled the blinker and taken control of the vehicle. (Probably a wise decision, given that a Ford pickup was approaching in my rearview mirror, probably wondering what the heck was up with the dancing Tesla... )


Very strange. I've never had an autopilot lane change fail. Are all your sensors and cameras clean?



Unplugged said:


> "It's better to side swipe the car next to you than to run into the back of the car in front of you." That's a maxim that we should all live by.


Not if I'm the car next to you!


----------



## MGallo

Bokonon said:


> I had my first [brief] experience with blindspot detection / warnings today (in conjunction with V9 Autosteer/auto-lane-change), and it was a little odd.
> 
> On a divided, four-lane state highway, with literally no other cars in sight on my side of the road, I was cruising in the left lane with Autosteer engaged, and the car's Autopilot display correctly showed two lanes. I decided that this was a great opportunity to try V9 auto-lane-change, which was not previously enabled on this highway in V8.1. So, I turned on my right blinker.
> 
> Initially, the lane marker on the right side was blue, and the but after a second it turned red, and the car did not attempt to change lanes. This was strange, given that there were no other cars on my side of the road. I cancelled the right blinker, waited a few seconds, and tried again. This time, the lane marker stayed blue for longer, and the car began to *slowly* merge into the next lane, but halfway through, the lane marker suddenly became red -- again, even though nothing was there -- and the car began to return to the left lane, with the right blinker still on.
> 
> Oh, but that wasn't the end of it.  Before completing the return to the left lane, the lane marker changed back from red to blue, and the car started to merge right again... only for the lane marker to turn red once again a second later, causing the car to abort a second time. And, yet again, the lane marker turned blue as the car returned to the left lane, so it tried merging right for a third time.... and this little jiggle-wiggle between lanes may have continued indefinitely had I not cancelled the blinker and taken control of the vehicle. (Probably a wise decision, given that a Ford pickup was approaching in my rearview mirror, probably wondering what the heck was up with the dancing Tesla... )
> 
> I don't want to draw too many conclusions from a single data point, since it's unclear to me whether blindspot detection is too sensitive or it's the combination of auto-lane-change + blindspot warning that's buggy. But my advice for anyone with 39.6 would be to exercise caution when using auto-lane-change, especially on roads where it was not enabled previously.


That's disconcerting. Did you submit a bug report at the time?


----------



## KarenRei

MGallo said:


> That is so cool. I'm guessing they are not cheap since they were all gifts.


They're not cheap - they're a couple hundred dollars. And they don't work for dichromats, only anomalous trichromats (the latter of which are the majority of cases of colour blindness, but still). And different peoples' experiences are different - some are immediately blown away, while others aren't. But they do strongly increase colour vision in anomalous trichromats.

Regular sunglasses block all frequencies of light evenly. Enchroma glasses block out only the more ambiguous frequencies, but do so entirely (frequencies between the peak activation levels for the cones in the eye). The most distinct frequencies - those with the highest activation levels for specific cones - are left untouched. Anomalous trichromats still have red, green and blue cones, but the overlap between activation in two or more colours (usually red and green) is high enough as to make it difficult to distinguish between the two. By leaving only the peak activation levels and blocking the ambiguous data, it significantly enhances the colour differences.


----------



## garsh

Unplugged said:


> "It's better to side swipe the car next to you than to run into the back of the car in front of you." That's a maxim that we should all live by.


That is a TERRIBLE idea.

If you actually hit a car in the side while trying to swerve, then the next thing to happen is that you still end up plowing into the car in front of you, because you couldn't actually swerve out of the way due to the car next to you. AND you've hit the car in front of you at full speed because you chose to swerve instead of slamming on the brakes. Now you're liable for damage to two additional vehicles instead of just one.

Just slam on the brakes.


----------



## Bokonon

Rich M said:


> Very strange. I've never had an autopilot lane change fail. Are all your sensors and cameras clean?


I'll check the cameras to be sure. I washed the car on Saturday.



MGallo said:


> That's disconcerting. Did you submit a bug report at the time?


D'oh! Should've remembered to do that.

I think the problem here is small sample size (n=2). As we saw in Trev's video, V9 auto lane-change is very cautious right now, so the behavior I experienced yesterday may very well have been a function of the particular stretch of road I was on. I'll take a longer route to work today that will include time on a proper interstate highway and see how it behaves.

*UPDATE:* On the way to work, I tested auto lane-change several times on the interstate, in traffic and with no traffic. It worked flawlessly every time, even going around turns and after cresting small hills. I also tried it again on the same divided four-lane state highway as yesterday, including in the same location where the dancing incident occurred (albeit in the opposite direction). No issues at all.

I still think that the looping aspect of the "abort" behavior is a bug, though... If we're talking about a one-off, user-initiated lane change, and Autopilot decides to abort the maneuver, it should fully return to the original lane and await further input. Next time the car starts dancing, I'll report it promptly.


----------



## Penny’s Model <3

Unplugged said:


> "It's better to side swipe the car next to you than to run into the back of the car in front of you." That's a maxim that we should all live by.


Unless you're on a two lane road.


----------



## GDN

This side swipe vs brake/rear end is exactly why FSD is still a long ways off. So many situations can be almost the same, yet very different. We have to have a system that can account for most if not all of them and react properly.


----------



## Dr. J

Bokonon said:


> I had my first [brief] experience with blindspot detection / warnings today (in conjunction with V9 Autosteer/auto-lane-change), and it was a little odd.
> 
> On a divided, four-lane state highway, with literally no other cars in sight on my side of the road, I was cruising in the left lane with Autosteer engaged, and the car's Autopilot display correctly showed two lanes. I decided that this was a great opportunity to try V9 auto-lane-change, which was not previously enabled on this highway in V8.1. So, I turned on my right blinker.
> 
> Initially, the lane marker on the right side was blue, and the but after a second it turned red, and the car did not attempt to change lanes. This was strange, given that there were no other cars on my side of the road. I cancelled the right blinker, waited a few seconds, and tried again. This time, the lane marker stayed blue for longer, and the car began to *slowly* merge into the next lane, but halfway through, the lane marker suddenly became red -- again, even though nothing was there -- and the car began to return to the left lane, with the right blinker still on.
> 
> Oh, but that wasn't the end of it.  Before completing the return to the left lane, the lane marker changed back from red to blue, and the car started to merge right again... only for the lane marker to turn red once again a second later, causing the car to abort a second time. And, yet again, the lane marker turned blue as the car returned to the left lane, so it tried merging right for a third time.... and this little jiggle-wiggle between lanes may have continued indefinitely had I not cancelled the blinker and taken control of the vehicle. (Probably a wise decision, given that a Ford pickup was approaching in my rearview mirror, probably wondering what the heck was up with the dancing Tesla... )
> 
> I don't want to draw too many conclusions from a single data point, since it's unclear to me whether blindspot detection is too sensitive or it's the combination of auto-lane-change + blindspot warning that's buggy. But my advice for anyone with 39.6 would be to exercise caution when using auto-lane-change, especially on roads where it was not enabled previously.


An example of Buridan's ass.  Was your car both hungry and thirsty?


----------



## JustTheTip

So. I’ve driven over 50 miles since updating to 39.7. Signaling when I know there’s a car in my blind spot does nothing on the screen. Sigh. Is this always active or is there a setting I’m missing??

Edit. Finally got it to work. lol


----------



## TrevP

So I did a bit of experimenting today...

*How many cameras is Tesla version9 using?*


----------



## ADK46

Good work showing that all 8 cameras are being used to produce the display. But it appears that the proximity sensors are not being consulted - passing vehicle symbols are smacking into your car's symbol. Perhaps this is not disturbing when inside the car, but the video makes me want to check for dents.


----------



## Dr. J

JustTheTip said:


> Signaling when I know there's a car in my blind spot does nothing on the screen.


But it probably frightens the driver in your blind spot. As a bonus.


----------



## AndrewF

KenF said:


> Where is the disagree or downvote button? I could not disagree more.
> 
> We all know that a blind spot warning indicator is no substitute for checking the rear view and side mirrors. That said, the Model 3 has a large blind spot, one of the largest of any car in its class. A car should never require the driver to take their eyes off the road to check a display before changing lanes; that is likely to cause more accidents than it prevents. Every other car manufacturer has realized this and incorporated audible blindspot warnings. Tesla should do the same.


I couldn't agree with you more. In absence of an audible warning and/or vibrating the steering wheel, the lane marker changing red when you signal a lane change while your blind spot is occupied is utterly useless. I shouldn't have to take my eyes off the road to safely drive my vehicle. Given that they already have the ability to sound a chime, vibrate the steering wheel and detect cars in your blind spot, its only a matter of a couple of lines of code to tie this all together. Disappointing that they didn't make this feature a whole lot better.


----------



## MGallo

TrevP said:


> So I did a bit of experimenting today...
> 
> *How many cameras is Tesla version9 using?*


Hey Trev, thanks for the video. At about 9:15 in is it showing the open space between the cars on your right (as seen a few seconds later on the bottom of the video) as a parking spot?? Is that what that big blue P indicates? I think I only see they on my Model 3 after putting the car in R.


----------



## SoFlaModel3

MGallo said:


> Hey Trev, thanks for the video. At about 9:15 in is it showing the open space between the cars on your right (as seen a few seconds later on the bottom of the video) as a parking spot?? Is that what that big blue P indicates? I think I only see they on my Model 3 after putting the car in R.


Yes and I get that from time to time on my car. At low speed (especially when coming to a red light) it may detect the gap between cars as an auto park opportunity.


----------



## SR22pilot

Does anyone else have the issue that V9 doesn’t see cars behind you? It places cars coming up in either side lane but rarely behind me. At lights with cars stopped behind me, nothing shows.


----------



## ADK46

SR22pilot said:


> Does anyone else have the issue that V9 doesn't see cars behind you? It places cars coming up in either side lane but rarely behind me. At lights with cars stopped behind me, nothing shows.


Have not noticed that. Not bothered by it, in any event. Not yet.

I am currently greatly bothered by the way vehicle icons dance about, slamming into my car. I pass a big truck, the icon moves smoothly backwards, as it should, then it leaps forward and slams into my car's icon! Holy crap.

I can't imagine a design review at Tesla where the management team agrees this is OK. Elon: if you want to emulate Apple, this is when you say "This is s***!" and make somebody cry.


----------



## SoFlaModel3

SR22pilot said:


> Does anyone else have the issue that V9 doesn't see cars behind you? It places cars coming up in either side lane but rarely behind me. At lights with cars stopped behind me, nothing shows.


I see cars behind me but only at red lights and only if they're pretty close


----------



## Tesla Newbie

The dancing images are definitely disconcerting. At first it’s panic-provoking and later it’s self-defeating because we can’t rely on the graphic to place the surrounding cars in their actual locations. I do like the feature and think it’s a great start, but we’ve got a way to go.


----------



## 3V Pilot

I'm usually very aware of all traffic around but I was so busy checking out the new update that at one point I noticed a car on the display right in my blind spot. I did not realize he was there and it actually took me by surprise when I saw him on the display. 

Because of this I've started to include a quick scan of the screen before changing lanes or even indicating with a blinker. It's a super quick and effective triple check to look in the mirrors, turn to look at the blind spot, and glance at the screen before indicating and moving over. I think the actual BSM feature where the lanes turn red is really ineffective without an audio warning like so many have already posted. However, using the system to assist in clearing the lane before moving is very helpful.


----------



## Joaquin

Tesla Newbie said:


> The dancing images are definitely disconcerting.


And it's really weird from a technical point of view. It's pretty common to run some kind of filtering (kalman filter, particle filter...) before the final output of the positions to avoid such jumps, surprising to see this was not done for the surrounding vehicles detection.


----------



## Bernard

I too would prefer a (soft) audible signal, but I am sure it will come in a later release. Tesla has been quite responsive to user comments in the past.


----------



## G0GR33N

Since I got V9. I have not been able to do an Auto Lane Change.
When ever I try and initiate that I get an error message something like, "*Automatic lane change unavailable. If issue persists, contact Tesla Service*"
I have not performed a restart yet. Thought of asking here before I tried anything.
Anyone?


----------



## garsh

G0GR33N said:


> I have not performed a restart yet.


----------



## Brokedoc

The red line blind spot marker is an incremental improvement but not super useful unless you’re a passenger and staring at the screen to perfect your backseat driving skills.

I foresee future options:
* Audible chime when signaling and vehicle detected
* Side camera temporarily pops up when signaling like when the rear camera backs up in reverse.
* IF signaling, car detected in side lane, AND driver still initiates lane change then Elon’s voice screams “THERE’S A CAR NEXT TO YOU, DUMBASS!!!”


----------



## tivoboy

Wow, is FSD really a requirement for the blindspot warning? Seems a huge deficiency in overall car ability if that is the case.


----------



## Brokedoc

tivoboy said:


> Wow, is FSD really a requirement for the blindspot warning? Seems a huge deficiency in overall car ability if that is the case.


No. I get the red dash and I only have EAP


----------



## garsh

tivoboy said:


> Wow, is FSD really a requirement for the blindspot warning? Seems a huge deficiency in overall car ability if that is the case.


I don't believe it's a requirement. Where did you see that?


----------



## Thunder7ga

tivoboy said:


> Wow, is FSD really a requirement for the blindspot warning? Seems a huge deficiency in overall car ability if that is the case.


Paying for FSD is NOT required, what is required is a car "capable" of FSD (i.e. 2.5 hardware).


----------



## ADK46

There is an unclear distinction between the _hardware_ required for FSD (all M3's have it, older S's do not), and the FSD _software_ (which no one has, but some have paid for). Also somewhat murky is that those who have this FSD _hardware_ (in this context) do not really have it - new _hardware_ (a new computer) will be needed for FSD, which will be provided gratis to those who have paid for the future FSD _software_. Is that clear?


----------



## tivoboy

garsh said:


> I don't believe it's a requirement. Where did you see that?


starting in post #3, it becomes a bit unclear.


----------



## Arth

MelindaV said:


> for the big Version 9 release, we are going to have dedicated feature specific threads. Please use the MEGA thread for general fw discussion, using these for known specific features once the fw is being used.


My view, copied from the post I made on Teslarati's forum since this is all I have to say at this time:

I wish the feature was made available while NOT on Autopilot. That would be VERY useful. They way things stand now, we do NOT have any blindspot warnings when manually driving our Teslas and I wish we did.

For this feature, V9 is largely a visual enhancement. Pre-V9 Autopilot was doing the same minus graphics. It would not change lane unless it was safe. V9 adds a nice interrupted line and makes it 'red' when not safe to change lane but that's all it does.

How do I know? I've been driving my car on V9 for some 24 hours yesterday (just woke up).


----------



## tivoboy

Arth said:


> I wish the feature was made available while NOT on Autopilot. That would be VERY useful. They way things stand now, we do NOT have any blindspot warnings when manually driving our Teslas and I wish we did.
> .


I've seen videos where the red line boarder shows up when EAP is not engaged. so, it should be there. I imagine as this rolls out and gets updated, the ability to set alerts, alarms and even give force feedback through the wheel will be enhancements that one will be able to enable. Hopefully, it won't require full FSD for some of these enhancements though.


----------



## Carey

Maybe it didn't see the dar side of the lane well enough? From the owner's manual:

Operating Auto Lane Change
Before you can operate Auto Lane Change,
you must enable it by touching Controls >
Autopilot > Auto Lane Change > ON.
Note: Before you can turn on Auto Lane
Change, you must turn on Autosteer (see 
Autosteer on page 67). Without Autosteer,
Auto Lane Change cannot operate.
Note: Your chosen setting is retained until you
manually change it.
To change lanes using Auto Lane Change:
1. Perform visual checks to make sure it is
safe and appropriate to move into the
target lane.
2. Engage the appropriate turn signal.
3. Disengage the turn signal after you are in
the target lane.
Auto Lane Change moves Model 3 into the
adjacent lane in the direction indicated by the
turn signal, provided the following conditions
are met:
• The Auto Lane Change setting is turned
on.
• The turn signal is engaged.
• Autosteer is actively steering Model 3.
• The ultrasonic sensors do not detect a
vehicle or obstacle up to the center of the
target lane.
• The lane markings indicate that a lane
change is permitted.
• The view of the camera(s) is not
obstructed.
• Your vehicle does not detect another
vehicle in its blind spot.
• Midway through the lane change, Auto
Lane Change can detect the outside lane
marking of the target lane.
• Driving speed is at least 30 mph
(45 km/h).
As the lane change is in progress, Overtake
Acceleration is activated, allowing Model 3 to
accelerate closer to a vehicle in front (see 
Overtake Acceleration on page 64). Midway
through the lane change, Auto Lane Change
must be able to detect the target lane's
outside lane marking. If this lane marking
cannot be detected, both Auto Lane Change
and Autosteer will cancel.


----------



## Arth

tivoboy said:


> I've seen videos where the red line boarder shows up when EAP is not engaged. so, it should be there.


Well... it may be from someone running a test version but it only works on Autopilot for me. And it's not really 'a warning' because you cannot overrule Autopilot and still stay in Autopilot. It's more like a notification to let you know that Autopilot is trying to change lane but is not yet able to do so because... reasons.


----------



## ADK46

I first saw the dancing icons in Trevor's video (Model X), and then in my own Model 3. But in the video below (of a Model S), I do not see dancing icons. Huh.


----------



## JustTheTip

This blind spot warning thing could be improved so much. Red line any time a car is in your blind spot, and an audible warning when you use your signal.


----------



## MelindaV

JustTheTip said:


> Red line any time a car is in your blind spot


on my commute, in stop and go traffic, the lane markers would be red all the time then, making it less effective than turning red when there is a car there AND your signal is on.


----------



## SoFlaModel3

This is from my wife's car the other night (she doesn't have EAP). When in EAP the difference is that the red line will be dashed while it waits for the lane to clear for the change.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1051255118769938433


----------



## G0GR33N

SoFlaModel3 said:


> she doesn't have EAP


She doesn't have EAP or FSD?


----------



## garsh

SoFlaModel3 said:


> This is from my wife's car the other night (she doesn't have EAP). When in EAP the difference is that the red line will be dashed while it waits for the lane to clear for the change.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1051255118769938433


The way I read that Tesla post is that any Tesla with v. 2.5 hardware will get the feature.


----------



## SoFlaModel3

G0GR33N said:


> She doesn't have EAP or FSD?


Correct



garsh said:


> The way I read that Tesla post is that any Tesla with v. 2.5 hardware will get the feature.


That's definitely the right way to read it. After all "safety is standard" you just need 2.5 hardware to have the cameras to accomplish BSD.


----------



## Brokedoc

SoFlaModel3 said:


> Correct
> 
> That's definitely the right way to read it. After all "safety is standard" you just need 2.5 hardware to have the cameras to accomplish BSD.


I'm pretty sure AP2.0 is enough also. I remember seeing the red lines on my X. AP1 doesn't have side cameras.


----------



## JustTheTip

MelindaV said:


> on my commute, in stop and go traffic, the lane markers would be red all the time then, making it less effective than turning red when there is a car there AND your signal is on.


As they should be, since there are cars in your blind spots.


----------



## Bokonon

JustTheTip said:


> This blind spot warning thing could be improved so much. Red line any time a car is in your blind spot, and an audible warning when you use your signal.


If Santa Mode can make your turn signals sound like jingle bells, then surely blind-spot detection can make them sound like a blood-curdling scream?


----------



## ronmis

I hope in the next update they replace the key fob looking sedans with normal looking sedans, cause they look out of place


----------



## JustTheTip

ronmis said:


> I hope in the next update they replace the key fob looking sedans with normal looking sedans, cause they look out of place


Personally I would like horse and buggies. Let's go all Oregon Trail! Just don't die of dysentery.


----------



## KarenRei

JustTheTip said:


> Personally I would like horse and buggies. Let's go all Oregon Trail! Just don't die of dysentery.


Suggest it as an easter egg via the bug report feature


----------



## Dan Detweiler

Hey gang, just a quick v9 blindspot story.

On the day I installed the update I was on the highway and was in the left lane. I had just passed an on ramp and signaled to move to the right lane. The car got halfway over and suddenly the car jerked back into the left lane. I was trying to figure out what had happened when the car that was barreling down the on ramp went zooming by me in the right lane. I would have never seen the guy but auto pilot did. This is pretty great stuff even with its limitations and bugs. Glad I have it for sure.

Dan


----------



## tivoboy

Dan Detweiler said:


> Hey gang, just a quick v9 blindspot story.
> 
> On the day I installed the update I was on the highway and was in the left lane. I had just passed an on ramp and signaled to move to the right lane. The car got halfway over and suddenly the car jerked back into the left lane. I was trying to figure out what had happened when the car that was barreling down the on ramp went zooming by me in the right lane. I would have never seen the guy but auto pilot did. This is pretty great stuff even with its limitations and bugs. Glad I have it for sure.
> 
> Dan


so, uh you were on an on ramp with autopilot ON? And it moved the car back over? I see this as probably more the lane keeping autosteer being on and not necessarilly blindspot. My understanding of the blindspot protection (as it WILL be but not as it IS at the moment) is that it simply won't allow one to move INTO another lane if there is a car there, NOT that it will jerk one back into their current lane if a vehicle is detected.


----------



## Dan Detweiler

tivoboy said:


> so, uh you were on an on ramp with autopilot ON? And it moved the car back over? I see this as probably more the lane keeping autosteer being on and not necessarilly blindspot. My understanding of the blindspot protection (as it WILL be but not as it IS at the moment) is that it simply won't allow one to move INTO another lane if there is a car there, NOT that it will jerk one back into their current lane if a vehicle is detected.


No, I was not on the on ramp, I was on the highway in the left lane. I had just PASSED an on ramp. I was changing lanes to the right lane when the guy came down the on ramp and into the lane I was changing into.

Dan


----------



## RichEV

Dan Detweiler said:


> No, I was not on the on ramp, I was on the highway in the left lane. I had just PASSED an on ramp. I was changing lanes to the right lane when the guy came down the on ramp and into the lane I was changing into.
> 
> Dan


autosteer on or off?


----------



## Dan Detweiler

RichEV said:


> autosteer on or off?


On

Dan


----------



## NJturtlePower

tivoboy said:


> Wow, is FSD really a requirement for the blindspot warning? Seems a huge deficiency in overall car ability if that is the case.





Brokedoc said:


> No. I get the red dash and I only have EAP


I get the "Red Line" and have neither EAP or FSD  Dash Cam works too... kinda..when it feels like it...


----------



## ADK46

The most remarkable thing about the blindspot monitoring display is how big trucks appear as I pass them. They fall back, jump forward, slam into me, _and sometimes even split into two trucks!_ I'm going to focus on that last anomoly.

It makes me wonder about the algorithm. Offhand, I'd think it would attempt to maintain an abstract model of the surroundings. The forward and rear positions of every vehicle would be tracked. The responsibility would be handed off from camera to camera as the truck goes by, aided by redundant views during the handoff and an evolving estimate for the length of the truck. I can't imagine how a truck could split into two if this were the algorithm, so it must be some other algorithm. An algorithm that doesn't work very well. An algorithm that should not have reached customers. An algorithm - to use a theme recalling Steve Jobs - that a manager would have said "This is s***!"

I read a book about the human vision system recently, which is remarkably different from what one might think. I know nothing about "machine" vision systems, but I'm becoming curious. I know it must be very difficult, but it's 2018 - it can't be so difficult that a system can't count the number of trucks in an adjacent lane.


----------



## MelindaV

ADK46 said:


> I can't imagine how a truck could split into two if this were the algorithm


here, most every semi truck is 2 or 3 trailers long, and each will show as a single truck. (sometimes an oversized pickup will show as a semi too, and I mentioned in another thread, a 3-wheeled motorcycle showed up as a SUV), so it is not literal, but a closer picture of what the AP cameras are seeing than the prior 'everything is a Model S' view we had before.


----------



## judomc

I suspect the splitting of trucks and vehicles jumping around are happening when a vehicle is visible in multiple cameras at a time. I'm sure they will continue to refine this and merge these feeds together better in a future update.


----------



## mishakim

Someone somewhere else stated that the neural net has no object permanence, what we see in the display is what the car thinks it sees at that exact moment, and has nothing to do with what it saw before. That explains all the jumping around, but not why they released the software in that state. I'd think they'd want to add some smoothing to the display, even if the actual machine vision system didn't change, so people don't think it's so skittish.


----------



## TrevP

Dan Detweiler said:


> Hey gang, just a quick v9 blindspot story.
> 
> On the day I installed the update I was on the highway and was in the left lane. I had just passed an on ramp and signaled to move to the right lane. The car got halfway over and suddenly the car jerked back into the left lane. I was trying to figure out what had happened when the car that was barreling down the on ramp went zooming by me in the right lane. I would have never seen the guy but auto pilot did. This is pretty great stuff even with its limitations and bugs. Glad I have it for sure.
> 
> Dan


Happened to be too. It's almost as if it misjudged the distance or where the obstruction was and veered out of the way


----------



## Rich M

JustTheTip said:


> Personally I would like horse and buggies. Let's go all Oregon Trail! Just don't die of dysentery.





KarenRei said:


> Suggest it as an easter egg via the bug report feature


Umm, I'm in Amish country. I'd like to ACTUALLY have horse and buggies show up as horse and buggies.


----------



## JeffcM3

TrevP said:


> Happened to be too. It's almost as if it misjudged the distance or where the obstruction was and veered out of the way


Ditto here. 
In slow moving traffic I instructed it to move into the right lane. 
It started the lane change, then jerked back into the original lane. 
Not sure what happened. Possibly the vehicle to my right rear started accelerating. 
I took over, stomped on he accelerator and got the car into the right lane.


----------



## undergrove

There seem to be at least 3 or 4 versions of v9 in use at this time: 39.6, 39.7, 39.7.1, 40.1.

It would be helpful in this and other v9 discussions if everyone lists their version in the main body or signature.


----------



## Doug Joubert

garsh said:


> I'm of standard height, and I agree that the mirrors won't adjust outward as far as I prefer.


@Slumbreon @garsh I'm 6' 3" (I don't know if that's considered non-standard or standard ) and I have no issues with the side view mirrors. I have adjusted my seat to where I am comfortable *and* can see out of as many of the required openings as I can. My real issue is the rear windshield: not a lot of viewing real estate. I tend to use the rear camera when things get dicey.


----------



## tivoboy

Doug Joubert said:


> @Slumbreon @garsh I'm 6' 3" (I don't know if that's considered non-standard or standard ) and I have no issues with the side view mirrors. I have adjusted my seat to where I am comfortable *and* can see out of as many of the required openings as I can. My real issue is the rear windshield: not a lot of viewing real estate. I tend to use the rear camera when things get dicey.


non standard. standard is 5'10", you're just over 2 non-standard deviations from the mean. ;-). (join the club).


----------



## lascavarian

I was thinking that the trucks splitting had to do with the ultrasonic sensor loosing a signal as the trailer part (where there are no wheels) passes by.


----------



## Ksb466

Question: when signaling lane change while red warning lines are activating do the external blinker lights blink? I assume yes, but wondering if I’m alarming the other drivers or not by testing this feature?


----------



## Tesla Newbie

Ksb466 said:


> Question: when signaling lane change while red warning lines are activating do the external blinker lights blink? I assume yes, but wondering if I'm alarming the other drivers or not by testing this feature?


Yep, they work normally ... as well they should! The only rationale for not activating the external lights would be if the mechanism took over and prevented us from changing lanes when it would be dangerous to do so.


----------



## GDN

I've tried a few times to get the lines to turn red and so far have been unsuccessful. I don't like to scare others by putting my blinker on right beside them or just a little ahead of them, but I've tried 3 times now and not a red line/warning once.


----------



## Tesla Newbie

GDN said:


> I've tried a few times to get the lines to turn red and so far have been unsuccessful. I don't like to scare others by putting my blinker on right beside them or just a little ahead of them, but I've tried 3 times now and not a red line/warning once.


Are you seeing the other car in the representation of your car and surrounding vehicles on the center display? I am finding that the red lane appears when I've already glanced at the display and see the ghost of the car in my blind spot. This may help you pinpoint where the problem is.

By the way, I wouldn't worry about scaring the other drivers. It's always appropriate to signal our intention to turn. That doesn't mean we're planning to do it immediately. It means we plan to do it when it's safe to do so, and we're hoping a friendly person will open up the space. (In Houston, and I assume Dallas is the same, it's nearly impossible to wait until "the coast is clear" before signaling the intention to change lanes.)

You probably already thought the same way and I misread your post. I do understand that if you're talking about continually triggering the blinker down one stretch of road in order to test the feature, then yes, that would guarantee a NSFW reaction from nearby drivers.


----------



## lascavarian

lascavarian said:


> I was thinking that the trucks splitting had to do with the ultrasonic sensor loosing a signal as the trailer part (where there are no wheels) passes by.


After seeing that latest NN camera video, I think it is more likely that it is the 2 cameras identifying 2 targets when it is a long vehicle.


----------



## MarkB

SoFlaModel3 said:


> My assumption is that either an audible alert or vibration in the wheel or both will come with a future update.


I'm mixed on this.

Today, in slowish traffic, I needed to get over a lane in preparation for a turn. With audible or vibration alerts, I'd be dealing with that while I was signalling for other drivers to "please let me in", very aware that there were vehicles in the way.

How about a two stage system:

Red lines like exist now (visual only) when turn signal is on, and
Vibration for lane departure warning, and
A significant audible or vibration (stronger than lane departure warning) when one start to actually change lanes - ie lane departure AND someone is in blind spot.

I'm sure what exists currently will be improved- and will be more effective than anything I can think up.


----------



## Dell Lunceford

Before the M3 got BSD, I was driving at night in a heavy rain and couldn't see my right hand side blind spot at all. I tried using the rear camera but it was wet and fogged, thus useless. I finally had to just take a shot, got flashed at, so probably wasn't the best lane change I ever made. So, I loved the BSD when it came out but as with many in this tread, I find having only a visual on the screen means just one more place to look. Of course if I used it right, which means check the mirror then trust the screen, i.e. no over the shoulder look, it's probably fine. I recently sent in a recommendation that ANYTHING that means 'warning Will Robertson!" needs an option for an audible. 

I will say however that I also liked the vibrating steering wheel as an option. Not a big fan of that feature for lane departure, but it probably would work as well as an audible


----------



## SoFlaModel3

Dell Lunceford said:


> Before the M3 got BSD, I was driving at night in a heavy rain and couldn't see my right hand side blind spot at all. I tried using the rear camera but it was wet and fogged, thus useless. I finally had to just take a shot, got flashed at, so probably wasn't the best lane change I ever made. So, I loved the BSD when it came out but as with many in this tread, I find having only a visual on the screen means just one more place to look. Of course if I used it right, which means check the mirror then trust the screen, i.e. no over the shoulder look, it's probably fine. I recently sent in a recommendation that ANYTHING that means 'warning Will Robertson!" needs an option for an audible.
> 
> I will say however that I also liked the vibrating steering wheel as an option. Not a big fan of that feature for lane departure, but it probably would work as well as an audible


I have actually started doing what you described but in reverse ...

Turn signal, check screen for red, check mirror, go!

I still want my audible alert for the freak chance that someone slipped into the blind spot on me.


----------



## PaulT

I don't understand why the video reviewer thinks there should be a chime when only putting blinker on with someone beside you.... The chime should come on when you start to veer over and get close to another car. It shouldn't come on every time you put blinker on and there is a car next to you. Our Subaru outback does not chime unless you get close... It is very hard and takes some serious nerves to make it chime and test it for fun. It would be a nuisance otherwise. 

I also believe our Subaru outback will auto steer correct a little back into your lane...though again, it could just be my reaction the few times this has occurred and I don't have the nerves to actually prove it/test it. 

I would imagine that the Tesla one is similar in that it will give you visual indication of a car beside you and red it and lane marker out first, but I bet you have to have some nerves to get close enough to test the chime.


----------



## JWardell

PaulT said:


> I don't understand why the video reviewer thinks there should be a chime when only putting blinker on with someone beside you.... The chime should come on when you start to veer over and get close to another car. It shouldn't come on every time you put blinker on and there is a car next to you. Our Subaru outback does not chime unless you get close... It is very hard and takes some serious nerves to make it chime and test it for fun. It would be a nuisance otherwise.
> 
> I also believe our Subaru outback will auto steer correct a little back into your lane...though again, it could just be my reaction the few times this has occurred and I don't have the nerves to actually prove it/test it.
> 
> I would imagine that the Tesla one is similar in that it will give you visual indication of a car beside you and red it and lane marker out first, but I bet you have to have some nerves to get close enough to test the chime.


Most cars I've driven do chime immediately if you put the blinker on and there is a car in the blind spot, they do not wait for you to move. This is very much preferred.
But they also often have setting buried in the menus where you can customize this behavior, you may want to look to see if you have the same.


----------



## iChris93

JWardell said:


> Most cars I've driven do chime immediately if you put the blinker on and there is a car in the blind spot, they do not wait for you to move. This is very much preferred.


I would not prefer this when not in the furthest left turn lane when there is more than one turn lane.


----------



## PaulT

JWardell said:


> Most cars I've driven do chime immediately if you put the blinker on and there is a car in the blind spot, they do not wait for you to move. This is very much preferred.
> But they also often have setting buried in the menus where you can customize this behavior, you may want to look to see if you have the same.


Good to know. I didn't realize.

I don't think I would prefer that. I always do a double check 99.99% of the time after I put blinker on. I don't want it chiming at me while I perform that action. I think having it chime immediatelly would get annoying

It could also drive complacency... Someone should always take a first assessment of what is beside your car. I guess it is just whether you do it before or after you put blinker on. That is probably why Subaru opted for the post movement route.

I guess only time will tell which route Tesla took. Based on the review, they probably took Subarus approach. I am hoping they did and it chimes as last resort...


----------



## Unplugged

iChris93 said:


> I would not prefer this when not in the furthest left turn lane when there is more than one turn lane.


Most cars don't chime if the car is stopped, or if the full turn signal is on. By "full" I mean just not changing lanes, but with the turn signal pushed all the way down or up.

Obviously, none of us currently know whether the Model 3 will chime when stopped or with the full signal on.


----------



## inspron

Instead of chime, the steering wheel could vibrate - similar to lane departure warning.


----------



## airj1012

I agree with JWardell and the chime should be based on a car being in your blind spot. This would align with how the interface works on the screen. The line turns red if there is a car in your blind spot not if you've already started to encroach on their lane. At that point you'd only be inches away and most likely it would be too late.


----------



## Arktctr

inspron said:


> Instead of chime, the steering wheel could vibrate - similar to lane departure warning.


My 2014 BMW 3-Series had a blind spot monitoring system that operated like this and I liked it much better than the audible tone. The only issue I see is that the steering wheel vibration in the Model 3 is pretty subtle (perhaps it can be altered via software) to the point that I don't pay much attention to it. Every other vehicle I have had with BSM gave an audible tone the moment I activated turn signal (soft or hard activation) if a vehicle was there independent of if I was moving towards it or not.


----------



## MelindaV

Arktctr said:


> I liked it much better than the audible tone.


it probably is better with nervous passengers also I would expect


----------



## PaulT

airj1012 said:


> I agree with JWardell and the chime should be based on a car being in your blind spot. This would align with how the interface works on the screen. The line turns red if there is a car in your blind spot not if you've already started to encroach on their lane. At that point you'd only be inches away and most likely it would be too late.


Subaru does chime as last resort. It does work and is not to late.

Think of how many times you are driving beside people either going much faster or slower and you put your blinker on to alert other drivers. You don't want car chiming all the time.


----------



## PaulT

JWardell said:


> Most cars I've driven do chime immediately if you put the blinker on and there is a car in the blind spot, they do not wait for you to move. This is very much preferred.
> But they also often have setting buried in the menus where you can customize this behavior, you may want to look to see if you have the same.


I just realized driving home today...that I definitely would NOT want it to chime like this. It would be a huge nuisance.

When you are switching lanes, you typically either slow down or speed up if there is car next to you. You put your blinker on pre-lane switch to show intention. That would suck to have it beeping all the time when you are intentionally speeding up or slowing down beside someone to get in front or behind them.

I don't know how you drive...but seriously think about it when you are out and about next time. As an engineer, I have a hard time believing that any car manufacturer would make it act the way you say...thank goodness Subaru didn't and I hope Tesla doesn't.


----------



## PaulT

Tesla, if you read these! Please look at how Subaru has implemented lane drift, lane change warnings, emergency stopping on backup object detection. Toyotas implementation of similar system in their Prius, Rav4, and Camery has driven me crazy. Subaru got it right.
I don't want my Model 3 to have a constant chime for no reason and an implementation like Toyota.

The chime should only come on as a last resort if blinker is on and you are actively getting CLOSE to another car. The system should always have slight auto steer correct if I unintentionally approach a lane marking and chime if crossing a lane market without blinker.


----------



## JWardell

PaulT said:


> I just realized driving home today...that I definitely would NOT want it to chime like this. It would be a huge nuisance.
> 
> When you are switching lanes, you typically either slow down or speed up if there is car next to you. You put your blinker on pre-lane switch to show intention. That would suck to have it beeping all the time when you are intentionally speeding up or slowing down beside someone to get in front or behind them.
> 
> I don't know how you drive...but seriously think about it when you are out and about next time. As an engineer, I have a hard time believing that any car manufacturer would make it act the way you say...thank goodness Subaru didn't and I hope Tesla doesn't.


You can't do that! If you put your blinker on early, the car next to you will block you from coming in!
You can only put you blinker on a millisecond before starting to move. That's why the chime on blinker is perfect.
Of course, this all only applies if you drive here in the crazy northeast.

Who am I kidding, 96% of drivers never use their blinkers anyway.


----------



## PaulT

JWardell said:


> You can't do that! If you put your blinker on early, the car next to you will block you from coming in!
> You can only put you blinker on a millisecond before starting to move. That's why the chime on blinker is perfect.
> Of course, this all only applies if you drive here in the crazy northeast.
> 
> Who am I kidding, 96% of drivers never use their blinkers anyway.


Lol...true about people being jerks closing a gap and those not using blinkers...

Technically here in Colorado I thought it was law to have blinker on well before changing lanes. But also... who am I kidding, 96% of drivers break the law even more by not using their blinker like you mention... lol.

No matter what Tesla does... The greatest thing about them is that they update issues continuously...I am optimistic we will all be happy one day


----------



## ehendrix23

JWardell said:


> You can't do that! If you put your blinker on early, the car next to you will block you from coming in!
> You can only put you blinker on a millisecond before starting to move. That's why the chime on blinker is perfect.
> Of course, this all only applies if you drive here in the crazy northeast.
> 
> Who am I kidding, 96% of drivers never use their blinkers anyway.


Is that a new feature in the latest release as well?😀


----------



## 64Driver

Anyone else confirm the blind spot chime works now?


----------



## JimGgolf

64Driver said:


> Anyone else confirm the blind spot chime works now?


Blind spot chime doesn't work for me


----------



## Smurdy

JimGgolf said:


> Blind spot chime doesn't work for me


Doesn't work for me either. Red line and car show up when I signal. Chime is enabled in settings.
I even tried moving a little bit towards the car like I was changing lanes. Nada.


----------



## 2Kap

The chime thing has me thinking. It’s gotta be able to tell that you’re not in the turning lane with your blinker on with a car next to you vs driving on the interstate merging into a lane where a car is already there.


----------



## JimGgolf

Smurdy said:


> Doesn't work for me either. Red line and car show up when I signal. Chime is enabled in settings.
> I even tried moving a little bit towards the car like I was changing lanes. Nada.


Same behavior for me--red line and car next to me show up. Since the system recognizes the danger as evidenced by the red line, the fix should simply involve passing that information on to the chime system.


----------



## Hugh_Jassol

Folks, the blind spot warning DOES work. You actually have to start to veer into the other lane when a car is there. It does work, trust me 

It has nothing to do with TACC engaged or Auto Steer... if you start to veer out of the lane (whether you are signaling or not) and there is a car in your blind spot you will get a beep


----------



## Joaquin

2Kap said:


> The chime thing has me thinking. It's gotta be able to tell that you're not in the turning lane with your blinker on with a car next to you vs driving on the interstate merging into a lane where a car is already there.


I checked that today (being in a left turning lane with another turning lane in the left with a car in blind spot), and no red line.

About the merging scenario, that's something I'm also interested in checking. Did not have a chance yet, and also I don't want to look at the screen while merging (we need chime working!)


----------



## Hugh_Jassol

Joaquin said:


> About the merging scenario, that's something I'm also interested in checking. Did not have a chance yet, and also I don't want to look at the screen while merging (we need chime working!)


The chime is working! You actually have to start to veer into the other lane! Trust me. I was merging one the freeway tonight and someone tried to get by me quickly and we were about to occupy the same spot. It beeped at me.

It has nothing to do with the lane marker bing red in the display, TACC, or anything else.


----------



## Smurdy

Hugh_Jassol said:


> Folks, the blind spot warning DOES work. You actually have to start to veer into the other lane when a car is there. It does work, trust me
> 
> It has nothing to do with TACC engaged or Auto Steer... if you start to veer out of the lane (whether you are signaling or not) and there is a car in your blind spot you will get a beep


I've done my best to simulate that scenario but it's really hard to trust something when you can't judge its effectiveness in a non-emergency situation. My only experience with audible blind spot warnings was in a Nissan Rogue rental. As I recall, the behavior in it was roughly equivalent to if you got an audible alert whenever the red line/red car displayed. I guess that's what I was looking for from Tesla. Although really, I'd rather have a visual indicator in my mirrors (and yes, I know 'that's not the Tesla way', but it is a proven effective solution that even an entry level SUV has nowadays).


----------



## Joaquin

Hugh_Jassol said:


> The chime is working! You actually have to start to veer into the other lane! .


Umm, IMHO you are describing the collision warning... blind spot monitoring should be BEFORE that, and tied to the red lines.


----------



## iChris93

Joaquin said:


> Umm, IMHO you are describing the collision warning... blind spot monitoring should be BEFORE that, and tied to the red lines.


My interpretation of the release notes is that blind spot warning will only chime if a collision is imminent. 


ateslik said:


> View attachment 22431


----------



## Needsdecaf

Hugh_Jassol said:


> Folks, the blind spot warning DOES work. You actually have to start to veer into the other lane when a car is there. It does work, trust me
> 
> It has nothing to do with TACC engaged or Auto Steer... if you start to veer out of the lane (whether you are signaling or not) and there is a car in your blind spot you will get a beep


If that's the case, it's a pretty poor implementation.


----------



## Darrenf

Needsdecaf said:


> If that's the case, it's a pretty poor implementation.


So, you want it to beep every time a car is in your blind spot, whether you intend to change lanes or not?


----------



## MelindaV

Darrenf said:


> So, you want it to beep every time a car is in your blind spot, whether you intend to change lanes or not?


there is a world of difference between riding in your lane and having a car next to you with the chime beeping and having your signal on and a car in the next lane with the chime beeping and having your signal on or off and already moving toward a crash corse with the car in the next lane and having the chime beep at you.


----------



## Darrenf

MelindaV said:


> there is a world of difference between riding in your lane and having a car next to you with the chime beeping and having your signal on and a car in the next lane with the chime beeping and having your signal on or off and already moving toward a crash corse with the car in the next lane and having the chime beep at you.


Yes, and that world is a car that is psychic.


----------



## Needsdecaf

Darrenf said:


> So, you want it to beep every time a car is in your blind spot, whether you intend to change lanes or not?


No, that would be silly of course. I want it to beep if there is a car in my blind spot AND I put the turn signal on to move over. Before I start to move over.

Blind spot warning on other cars I have had worked similarly. Yellow or red light illuminates when someone is in your blind spot, and when you hit your turn signal the light flashes and you may also get a beep. My BMW also vibrated the wheel to get your attention. Cadillac vibrates the seat on the side of the alert (their vibrating seat sounds goofy but is REALLY trick).

Bottom line, I don't want to wait to get an audible alert until after I start moving toward the car. May be too late by then. I'm ok with it beeping as well if I don't signal and veer over. But I don't want it to wait until I start to move. No other system on the market works that way, to my knowledge. At least not Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Cadillac, Volvo, Toyota, Volkswagen, Porsche, Nissan, etc.


----------



## MelindaV

Darrenf said:


> Yes, and that world is a car that is psychic.


that is a world where people use their turn signals


----------



## Darrenf

Needsdecaf said:


> No, that would be silly of course. I want it to beep if there is a car in my blind spot AND I put the turn signal on to move over. Before I start to move over.
> 
> Blind spot warning on other cars I have had worked similarly. Yellow light when someone is in your blind spot, and when you hit your turn signal the light flashes. My BMW also vibrated the wheel to get your attention. Cadillac vibrates the seat on the side of the alert (their vibrating seat sounds goofy but is REALLY trick).
> 
> Bottom line, I don't want to wait to get an audible alert until after I start moving toward the car. May be too late by then. I'm ok with it beeping as well if I don't signal and veer over. But I don't want it to wait until I start to move. No other system on the market works that way, to my knowledge. At least not Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Cadillac, Volvo, Toyota, Volkswagen, Porsche, Nissan, etc.


That's fair, but in the scenario of moving over without your turn signal on? In that case, the implementation as it sits seems to be as good as it can be.


----------



## Darrenf

MelindaV said:


> that is a world where people use their turn signals


But what if one starts to change lanes without their turn signal, as many people do when they think there are no cars around them. Sure, that is bad practice, but part of the point of these gadgets is to aid drivers who might need a little help.


----------



## Needsdecaf

Darrenf said:


> That's fair, but what if you start to move over without your turn signal on? In that case, the implementation as it sits seems to be as good as it can be.


I agree, it should also go off then. 100% it should. What if you're lazy and don't use your signal? Or, what if you need to swerve around a road hazard? It should definitely go off then. But that's not the ONLY time it should go off, IMO.


----------



## MelindaV

Darrenf said:


> But what if one starts to change lanes without their turn signal, as many people do when they think there are no cars around them. Sure, that is bad practice, but part of the point of these gadgets is to aid drivers who might need a little help.


your earlier point was the alternative was it would beep if anyone was next to you, even without a signal. I was just pointing out the signal should be the first trigger, not the adjacent car being the first trigger. If veering toward a car if the signal is on or not, something should sound (which currently the crash avoidance I believe already does).


----------



## TMK26

Darrenf said:


> But what if one starts to change lanes without their turn signal...


A typical Jersey driver


----------



## evannole

Needsdecaf said:


> If that's the case, it's a pretty poor implementation.


Agree. I am fine with a loud noise if I am actually moving into a lane that is occupied and am about to have a crash, but why not have another alert that warns you as soon as you put your turn signal on? Indeed, they could just change the electronic noise that the car makes to indicate that a turn signal is active from the subtle "click......click......." to a slightly more forward "ding-ding.....ding-ding." That would work fine and would not be overly intrusive. I don't want my first alert that I am about to do something dangerous to come when the accident is imminent. Alert me after I signal my intention but before I actually start my move.

Of course this would work only for those who routinely use their turn signals, but I am, in fact, one of those rare creatures, so this would be quite useful for me.


----------



## Arktctr

2Kap said:


> The chime thing has me thinking. It's gotta be able to tell that you're not in the turning lane with your blinker on with a car next to you vs driving on the interstate merging into a lane where a car is already there.


I had the chime work for me 2x yesterday on way to work. Both times I made a lane change (with signal) perhaps a little too close to the car in the next lane but sure enough a solid warning tone alerted me as I started to move over. It doesn't seem to go off unless you start a trajectory that brings you close to another car. In contrast, my previous vehicles with BSM (Blind Spot Monitoring) would alert you the moment you used your signal if a vehicle was in what it perceived as the blind spot regardless of whether you were actively changing lanes.


----------



## Needsdecaf

TMK26 said:


> A typical Jersey driver


Haha, having grown up on the NY / NJ border and having heard this multiple times I can say without a doubt that when it comes to using turn signals, PA drivers are worse than NJ drivers, and TX drivers are HORRIBLE!


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## Hugh_Jassol

My point is I see tons of post/videos claiming "It doesn't work!" when, in fact, it does work. The posts/videos should be titled "It doesn't work the way I thought it would!"

*Now on to why it's working "as intended":*

It works the same way as when you get that warning when you're approaching a car in front of you at a speed your Tesla deems "too fast" - it Beeps. Exactly the same thing. You don't want the thing beeping every time there's a car in front of you, or even every time the car in front of you is getting closer to you. You want it to warn you when a danger actually exists.

*Now why it would bad if different than it currently is:*

Every day on my commute to and from work in SoCal bumper-to-bumper traffic, every single lane-change I do has a car in my blind-spot when I put on the blinker. So I put the blinker on, showing my intentions, and usually, someone will slow a bit to let me over. In this scenario (again, every. single. time. on every. single. commute.) my car would be continuously beeping.


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## Smurdy

Hugh_Jassol said:


> My point is I see tons of post/videos claiming "It doesn't work!" when, in fact, it does work. The posts/videos should be titled "It doesn't work the way I thought it would!"
> 
> *Now on to why it's working "as intended":*
> 
> It works the same way as when you get that warning when you're approaching a car in front of you at a speed your Tesla deems "too fast" - it Beeps. Exactly the same thing. You don't want the thing beeping every time there's a car in front of you, or even every time the car in front of you is getting closer to you. You want it to warn you when a danger actually exists.


My suggestion to Tesla is that those two capabilities be controlled by the same option: collision warning on/off. Front, side, whatever, Big time beep. If you only want to know if a collision is imminent, then use this switch to enable that feature.



Hugh_Jassol said:


> Every day on my commute to and from work in SoCal bumper-to-bumper traffic, every single lane-change I do has a car in my blind-spot when I put on the blinker. So I put the blinker on, showing my intentions, and usually, someone will slow a bit to let me over. In this scenario (again, every. single. time. on every. single. commute.) my car would be continuously beeping.


Similarly, I would suggest that this capability should be the one controlled by the blind spot warning chime. If you don't like that, shut it off. Other manufacturers have managed to deliver this type of capability without being too intrusive.

One more thing. While I've tried my best to trigger the warning by drifting toward a car next to me, I've never heard the alert. So the only evidence I _personally_ have that this works, even_ "_as intended", are posts on this forum. Based on _own_ experience it does not work "as intended" or at minimum does not work very well in that regard.

Has anyone considered that this may work somewhat unevenly, just like the front collision warning that beeps about 50% of the time when a car is parked at a turn on the street where I live?


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## evannole

Hugh_Jassol said:


> *Now why it would bad if different than it currently is:*
> 
> Every day on my commute to and from work in SoCal bumper-to-bumper traffic, every single lane-change I do has a car in my blind-spot when I put on the blinker. So I put the blinker on, showing my intentions, and usually, someone will slow a bit to let me over. In this scenario (again, every. single. time. on every. single. commute.) my car would be continuously beeping.


Most cars I have driven that have blind spot monitoring suppress notifications when the car's at a standstill or moving very slowly, so as to avoid being unduly annoying. Between that and having the chime activate only when the turn signal is turned on and someone else is in the target lane, Tesla, too, could avoid their system's being overly annoying or intrusive.

Once again, I want my first warning that I am doing something stupid to come BEFORE I actually physically start to do it, not while I am in the middle of doing it. Of course I want the collision warning to kick in if I somehow miss the first, more subtle warning, but for the sake of safety (and avoiding rattled nerves), the first warning should come before the risk of a collision is imminent.


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## barjohn

By the way, I forgot to mention, there have been some posts saying that chime on blind spot detection does not work and at least one poster saying it does but only after you have pulled into the lane with someone in your blind spot. Today, I got to discover that the latter depiction is correct. It will sound an alarm but only after you are already about 2/3rds into the lane and someone is in your blind spot. I guess you could say it works just not as most would have expected. It should alarm on the turn signal being turned on and not wait until you are 2/3rds into the lane. It sounds alarm and turns the vehicle in the blind spot bright red (probably the color he is seeing just before he hits you).


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## Hugh_Jassol

Maybe they should just implement this:


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## PaulT

Glad to hear it will only chime if collision is eminent. That is the way Subaru does it and it is perfect. Thank you Tesla for doing real world functional testing!

A blinkers purpose is to show an intent to turn for the cars around you, you do this alot when a car is beside you... And it doesn't mean you are going to veer into them...


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## PaulT

Needsdecaf said:


> No, that would be silly of course. I want it to beep if there is a car in my blind spot AND I put the turn signal on to move over. Before I start to move over.
> 
> Blind spot warning on other cars I have had worked similarly. Yellow or red light illuminates when someone is in your blind spot, and when you hit your turn signal the light flashes and you may also get a beep. My BMW also vibrated the wheel to get your attention. Cadillac vibrates the seat on the side of the alert (their vibrating seat sounds goofy but is REALLY trick).
> 
> Bottom line, I don't want to wait to get an audible alert until after I start moving toward the car. May be too late by then. I'm ok with it beeping as well if I don't signal and veer over. But I don't want it to wait until I start to move. No other system on the market works that way, to my knowledge. At least not Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Cadillac, Volvo, Toyota, Volkswagen, Porsche, Nissan, etc.


The purpose of the blinker is to show intent to the cars around you. You often show your intent when there is a car next to you. Think of how many double turn lanes there are where you use a blinker and sooner is beside you.

Maybe this would be fine if you were only person in car... But man.... passengers would think the car is the dumbest thing ever.

A chime should be eminent collision notice only.


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## PaulT

John Griffith said:


> By the way, I forgot to mention, there have been some posts saying that chime on blind spot detection does not work and at least one poster saying it does but only after you have pulled into the lane with someone in your blind spot. Today, I got to discover that the latter depiction is correct. It will sound an alarm but only after you are already about 2/3rds into the lane and someone is in your blind spot. I guess you could say it works just not as most would have expected. It should alarm on the turn signal being turned on and not wait until you are 2/3rds into the lane. It sounds alarm and turns the vehicle in the blind spot bright red (probably the color he is seeing just before he hits you).


I don't think people understand how irritating this would be if it chimes everytime you put blinker on and there is someone beside you. There are many scenarios that you put a blinker on WHEN a car is next to you on purpose.

Tesla did their research on this one and I am glad.


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## DocScott

Just like nearly every other car for decades, Teslas make an audible noise inside the car when you signal. As evannole suggested, all that would need to be done would be for it to make a _different_ noise when there was someone in the blind spot. For example, it could click more quickly (or more slowly; I'm not sure which makes more sense psychologically) when it was unsafe to initiate the lane change. That wouldn't be intrusive or annoying...the thing already clicks! And it wouldn't be a "collision imminent" type alert warning; it would just be the audio version of the red line on the display.

It seems like that would make everyone happy:

--Those who don't signal when changing lanes would never hear this warning, but would still get the "collision imminent" alarm.

--Those who signal when changing lanes would get an audible cue as to whether someone was in their blind spot, but it wouldn't be any more intrusive than a regular turn signal, so it would be fine when the turn signal was used to indicate to other cars "I'd like to change lanes; please make room."

--If the Tesla driver ignored the subtle signal and tried to change lanes anyway, it would still trigger the more intrusive "collision imminent" alarm.


----------



## Needsdecaf

PaulT said:


> I don't think people understand how irritating this would be if it chimes everytime you put blinker on and there is someone beside you. There are many scenarios that you put a blinker on WHEN a car is next to you on purpose.
> 
> Tesla did their research on this one and I am glad.


This would be great if the visual warning were actually, you know, VISIBLE. On all my other cars with blind spot detection / warning, the yellow or red light is clearly visible on or near the side view mirror. Where you should be looking when signaling and changing lanes. Not the case in the model 3.

I get what you're saying, but the system simply needs a more distinct alert when there is a car in the blind spot. Perhaps the area around the speedo could illuminate in yellow on one side or another?

I've not gotten the software yet. So perhaps it's better than I'm imagining. But to me, it doesn't seem like it.


----------



## Hugh_Jassol

PaulT said:


> I don't think people understand how irritating this would be if it chimes everytime you put blinker on and there is someone beside you. There are many scenarios that you put a blinker on WHEN a car is next to you on purpose.
> 
> Tesla did their research on this one and I am glad.


This guy gets it!


----------



## RichEV

DocScott said:


> --Those who don't signal when changing lanes would never hear this warning, but would still get the "collision imminent" alarm.


I'm tempted to say that those who don't signal should get a screeching alarm every time they change lanes. But I won't.


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## Hugh_Jassol

Needsdecaf said:


> I get what you're saying, but the system simply needs a more distinct alert when there is a car in the blind spot. Perhaps the area around the speedo could illuminate in yellow on one side or another?


Both the lane line and the car that's in your blind spot turn red in the display when you put the blinker on. If that is ignored and you start to move anyway, it beeps.


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## Franklin L

The blind spot alert could be made proactive and not annoying at the same time. The best suggestion I’ve read is to make the blinker sound slightly different (maybe a different pattern to the blinking sounds or different pitch) when you’re signaling and a car is in your blind spot. The chime or steering wheel alert can be reserved for when you’ve started to turn into an occupied lane. If it’s done like this, you’ll have the much-needed proactive warning without it being annoying.


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## Hugh_Jassol

For those who say it doesn't work:


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## JWardell

Hugh_Jassol said:


> For those who say it doesn't work:


Thanks for posting, I experienced the warning tone for the first time this morning, and wasn't sure if it was BSW or just standard something-near warning as it is the same long simple tone you get when parking and go beyond the double-ding and are about to impact. I came in to ask if that is what the tone is...your video answers 



DocScott said:


> Just like nearly every other car for decades, Teslas make an audible noise inside the car when you signal. As evannole suggested, all that would need to be done would be for it to make a _different_ noise when there was someone in the blind spot. For example, it could click more quickly (or more slowly; I'm not sure which makes more sense psychologically) when it was unsafe to initiate the lane change. That wouldn't be intrusive or annoying...the thing already clicks! And it wouldn't be a "collision imminent" type alert warning; it would just be the audio version of the red line on the display.
> 
> It seems like that would make everyone happy:
> 
> --Those who don't signal when changing lanes would never hear this warning, but would still get the "collision imminent" alarm.
> 
> --Those who signal when changing lanes would get an audible cue as to whether someone was in their blind spot, but it wouldn't be any more intrusive than a regular turn signal, so it would be fine when the turn signal was used to indicate to other cars "I'd like to change lanes; please make room."
> 
> --If the Tesla driver ignored the subtle signal and tried to change lanes anyway, it would still trigger the more intrusive "collision imminent" alarm.


I LOVE your idea! Perfect solution!


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## Model3family

Triggered easily it on my first drive after my update just like the YouTube video above. Great new feature!


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## jefanning

Darrenf said:


> So, you want it to beep every time a car is in your blind spot, whether you intend to change lanes or not?


No. The chime should only sound if you signal your intention to move into that lane. It should not chime if you're simply driving next to another vehicle.


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## intransit

So, I just purchased my M3, but am freaked out by the lack of a real blind-spot detector. I rely on this safety feature, especially on highways where 2 cars are often trying to merge into the same open space simultaneously. Can someone tell me if I have to purchase autopilot in order to get the beep?? This seems a little ridiculous since you have to be driving WITHOUT autopilot to use it.🤨


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## MelindaV

intransit said:


> So, I just purchased my M3, but am freaked out by the lack of a real blind-spot detector. I rely on this safety feature, especially on highways where 2 cars are often trying to merge into the same open space simultaneously. Can someone tell me if I have to purchase autopilot in order to get the beep?? This seems a little ridiculous since you have to be driving WITHOUT autopilot to use it.🤨


it only beeps when it determines you are moving toward a car in the adjacent lane. otherwise, it shows as red on the screen.


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## evannole

Some have said that they think that navigation volume needs to be turned on in order for this to work. Has anyone heard the chime with navigation volume muted? For my daily commute I always have it muted as I know where I am going and don't like my audiobooks and NPR broadcasts to be interrupted, but like to have the Nav guidance on the screen for ETA and NOA. It seems idiotic that the blind spot chime would be tied to navigation volume, as they otherwise have nothing to do with each other. I have yet to hear a blind spot chime, but don't recall having any blind spot close calls since the feature was released.


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## TomT

So does our 2013 Ford Escape... And it also has a great vehicle detection system for cars coming from the sides when backing out...



NEO said:


> I rented a $31000 Nissan Rogue with blind spot detection over a year ago


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## garsh

intransit said:


> So, I just purchased my M3, but am freaked out by the lack of a real blind-spot detector. I rely on this safety feature


Goodness sakes, PLEASE turn your head and look when merging.

NEVER rely on something like that. It's a backup. It can fail. Look first. That blind-spot detector should only be a backup for those times when you screw up and forget to look.


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## DocScott

garsh said:


> Goodness sakes, PLEASE turn your head and look when merging.
> 
> NEVER rely on something like that. It's a backup. It can fail. Look first. That blind-spot detector should only be a backup for those times when you screw up and forget to look.


Suppose there were an audible cue of a car in the blind spot when signalling but before actually initiating the lane change (I've suggested that the turn signal noise click more rapidly)--an audible equivalent of the red line on the display. In that case, this is the sequence I'd follow:

1. Turn my signal on.
2. Listen for the slow rate of clicking , indicating that the lane is clear.
3. Look over my shoulder to confirm.
4. Look back forward and make the lane change, accelerating as I do so.

That's _safer_ than not having the audible cue. Without that extra cue, I either have to look to the right to see the red line, or look over my shoulder more often to see if the lane is clear (when sometimes it's not).

I don't really understand why so many people seem opposed to having a feature like that. We're not asking for an obnoxious "panic chime" to go on when you put your signal on. And we're not saying that we'd stop doing the other things we're already doing to assure a lane-change is safe (at least I'm not). We're just asking for an _additional_ cue as to whether the lane is clear _before_ we actually initiate the lane change.


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## Hugh_Jassol

evannole said:


> Some have said that they think that navigation volume needs to be turned on in order for this to work. Has anyone heard the chime with navigation volume muted? For my daily commute I always have it muted as I know where I am going and don't like my audiobooks and NPR broadcasts to be interrupted, but like to have the Nav guidance on the screen for ETA and NOA. It seems idiotic that the blind spot chime would be tied to navigation volume, as they otherwise have nothing to do with each other. I have yet to hear a blind spot chime, but don't recall having any blind spot close calls since the feature was released.


My nav is also permanently muted and I absolutely DO hear the blind spot beep,

This is real simple people. The blind spot warning is a "COLLISION" warning just like the forward collision warning (which also doesn't beep every time there is a car in front of you.


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## Bokonon

DocScott said:


> I don't really understand why so many people seem opposed to having a feature like that. We're not asking for an obnoxious "panic chime" to go on when you put your signal on. And we're not saying that we'd stop doing the other things we're already doing to assure a lane-change is safe (at least I'm not). We're just asking for an _additional_ cue as to whether the lane is clear _before_ we actually initiate the lane change.


I agree that having some kind of subtle, audible cue would be very helpful (and provide an additional degree of safety) in this situation. Anytime a blinker is on and the screen shows a red line on that side, simply augment that visual cue with an aural one. You still check your blindspot before moving over, all the sound does is provide an earlier indication that you cannot safely do so.

I don't think @garsh was trying to lump all proponents of this idea into a single group that believes it would eliminate the need to look over your shoulder. I think he was primarily reacting to intransit's statement that they "rely on" a traditional blindspot indicator (presumably a light on the mirrors) for safety and feel "freaked out" about driving without it.


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## evannole

Hugh_Jassol said:


> My nav is also permanently muted and I absolutely DO hear the blind spot beep,
> 
> This is real simple people. The blind spot warning is a "COLLISION" warning just like the forward collision warning (which also doesn't beep every time there is a car in front of you.


Good to know that it actually sounds, even with nav muted. As I said before, I haven't had any blind spot close calls recently so had no way of knowing if it actually worked.

That said, as previously stated, I would still rather have a milder audible notification that someone is in my blind spot as soon as I put on my signal to change lanes. Having both options, with the possibility to switch one or both off, would be ideal.


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## Flashgj

I agree that a mild, unique notification sound when the blinker is turned on and the red line is present would be a welcome improvement. I don’t always feel it is safe to look at the screen in heavy traffic so I don’t always notice the red line. A mellow sound would let me know it is not safe without hearing a loud collision avoidance that would be very annoying, unless I am actually starting to move into the next lane.


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## garsh

DocScott said:


> That's _safer_ than not having the audible cue.


I agree, and I like the idea. 


> I don't really understand why so many people seem opposed to having a feature like that.





Bokonon said:


> I think he was primarily reacting to intransit's statement that they "rely on" a traditional blindspot indicator (presumably a light on the mirrors) for safety and feel "freaked out" about driving without it.


Exactly.

All of these additional "blind spot warning" ideas are great. People make mistakes. People can only really look in one direction at a time. The more a vehicle is able to do help prevent mistakes, the better. BUT, none of these blind-spot safety features should be viewed as a _replacement_ for simply turning your head and looking. You still need to do that.

The woman who reversed her BMW out of a parking spot into my minivan says that her car never "chimed" to let her know that there was a vehicle behind her (and apparently, she didn't interpret a prolonged horn blast from the minivan as an indication that a vehicle was behind her either ). These systems aren't foolproof. Don't rely on them as the only means of avoiding a collision. Use your eyes first.

Sooty BMW tailpipe imprint:


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## intransit

For clarification, I am a careful driver and ALWAYS check my blindspot before I make a lane change. (I didn't think I needed to express that.) I was trying to describe the situation where, after seeing that your blindspot is clear, you proceed to move into an open space just as another vehicle decides to take the same opening from the second lane over. Living in a big city, this happens relatively often. I appreciate that the blindspot alert on my other vehicle acts almost like a second set of eyes, and will light up on the mirror on the side I'm trying to merge. The location seems key, as a notification on your monitor won't do much good at that point. I just feel like this is a big safety miss for Tesla, and I would love to see a fix.

It seems like others are bothered by the chime. Maybe there could be a setting to choose how reactive you want the chime, like there are for other modes? Or, since there is already a steering wheel vibrate option, maybe that could be used? I personally wouldn't mind a combination of the two.


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## garsh

intransit said:


> For clarification, I am a careful driver and ALWAYS check my blindspot before I make a lane change. (I didn't think I needed to express that.)


Apologies for jumping to the wrong conclusion. There are too many people who never bother to actually look (as my parking lot accident example shows).


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## Dr. J

garsh said:


> Apologies for jumping to the wrong conclusion. There are too many people who never bother to actually look (as my parking lot accident example shows).


But you should have known, statistically, since 93% of American drivers are better than average.


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## MelindaV

intransit said:


> For clarification, I am a careful driver and ALWAYS check my blindspot before I make a lane change. (I didn't think I needed to express that.) I was trying to describe the situation where, after seeing that your blindspot is clear, you proceed to move into an open space just as another vehicle decides to take the same opening from the second lane over. Living in a big city, this happens relatively often. I appreciate that the blindspot alert on my other vehicle acts almost like a second set of eyes, and will light up on the mirror on the side I'm trying to merge. The location seems key, as a notification on your monitor won't do much good at that point. I just feel like this is a big safety miss for Tesla, and I would love to see a fix.
> 
> It seems like others are bothered by the chime. Maybe there could be a setting to choose how reactive you want the chime, like there are for other modes? Or, since there is already a steering wheel vibrate option, maybe that could be used? I personally wouldn't mind a combination of the two.


but in the situation you described, the audible alert would sound. If an adjacent car closes the space you intended to move into, when you also move it will sound.


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## intransit

MelindaV said:


> but in the situation you described, the audible alert would sound. If an adjacent car closes the space you intended to move into, when you also move it will sound.


Thanks! This brings me back to my original question: I have not (yet?) purchased autopilot on my LR RWD. Does anyone know if I need to purchase autopilot in order to get the blindspot chime? I have not had it sound yet, and can't seem to find a setting for that. I've driven less then 200 miles, but all in city traffic. Sorry for the newbie question!


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## rlb4

intransit said:


> Thanks! This brings me back to my original question: I have not (yet?) purchased autopilot on my LR RWD. Does anyone know if I need to purchase autopilot in order to get the blindspot chime? I have not had it sound yet, and can't seem to find a setting for that. I've driven less then 200 miles, but all in city traffic. Sorry for the newbie question!


You do not. It comes on all Model 3's.


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## MelindaV

had a day long road trip today for work, and had an odd blindspot warning incident. 
on 2019.12.1.2, passed a semi truck on the freeway, and when a couple car lengths ahead of him, moved back over to the slow lane. ¾ way into the slow lane, the blindspot buzzer blared and showed the lane line as red on the screen. truck was clearly behind us by a good distance, and nobody else was nearby.


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## Dr. J

MelindaV said:


> had a day long road trip today for work, and had an odd blindspot warning incident.
> on 2019.12.1.2, passed a semi truck on the freeway, and when a couple car lengths ahead of him, moved back over to the slow lane. ¾ way into the slow lane, the blindspot buzzer blared and showed the lane line as red on the screen. truck was clearly behind us by a good distance, and nobody else was nearby.


Not quite the same, but I've noticed (on 2019.12.1.2) that whenever I pull around to pass anyone, as I merge back into the right lane, the vehicle turns red on the display then disappears. I haven't had the warning yet, but it clearly doesn't like how close I'm pulling in front when passing. I thought I was leaving plenty of room. BTW, I'm a good driver.


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## Unplugged

MelindaV said:


> had a day long road trip today for work, and had an odd blindspot warning incident.
> on 2019.12.1.2, passed a semi truck on the freeway, and when a couple car lengths ahead of him, moved back over to the slow lane. ¾ way into the slow lane, the blindspot buzzer blared and showed the lane line as red on the screen. truck was clearly behind us by a good distance, and nobody else was nearby.


On 2019.16.1, you may find yourself steered back into the original lane. *Emergency* Lane Departure Avoidance would possibly detect a collision and rather than merely buzz, it would steer you back into the original lane.

I experienced that sensation when I tried to change a lane with 16.1. this morning. Because there was no one near me, I didn't use my signal. Lane Departure Avoidance (the non-emergency one) steered me back into my original lane. (_I think it would be a great training aid for 90% of California drivers._) I found that I could easily overcome the _Tesla-steer_ by applying a bit more force onto the wheel. The effort was similar to what you need to do with Nav on Autopilot when Tesla tries to take a wrong exit or lane change.


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## FRC

My wife and I both drive a Model 3. Mine has FSD, hers has basic AP. Since we got hers in August, she has had a blind spot detection(BSD) warning. Last week mobile service swapped out her right side B-pillar camera, which Tesla had remotely diagnosed as the problem. Now the warning is gone, but BSD doesn't seem to function. On my car, if I turn on my blinker with a car in the area I intend to move to, that car and the lane markers show up on the screen in red. When I do the same thing in my wife's car, nothing changes on the screen. This doesn't seem right. Is this how basic AP is supposed to work, or is BSD still not working properly?


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## iChris93

Has your wife’s car had enough miles to recalibrate since having the camera replaced?


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## FRC

Definitely hundreds of miles since replacement.


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## iChris93

I do not have any experience with a basic-AP car but because Tesla makes their safety features standard, I would think her car should behave the same as yours.


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## FRC

That's the same way I was thinking. Anyone with basic AP wanna weigh in before I contact the mothership?


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## DocScott

I have basic AP. And yes, if I try to change lanes when there's a car that might impinge on that lane, the lane markers turn red.


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## FRC

Thank you @DocScott, that is what I expected, and what I needed to hear. Scheduling service as we speak.

And thank you, also @iChris93.


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## TomT

Our 2013 Ford Escape also has it, and it is nicely done...



NEO said:


> I rented a $31000 Nissan Rogue with blind spot detection over a year ago


----------



## Tesla Newbie

FRC said:


> Thank you @DocScott, that is what I expected, and what I needed to hear. Scheduling service as we speak.
> 
> And thank you, also @iChris93.


@FRC - was this ever resolved? I have the same question with a new Model Y. I noticed that neither the lane markings nor the car in my blind spot were turning red in the visualization so I checked with a mobile technician supervisor. He told me that I experience this behavior in our Model 3 because it's a feature of FSD which is absent on our Model Y.

I'm disappointed because I've become accustomed to glancing at the screen on my way to checking the side mirror and turning around. In Houston many people pass on the right on busy roads. We need all the help we can get. Tesla's BSM may not be as convenient as those from other manufacturers that incorporate the warning into the right side mirror, but I think it does work well.

The response I got from the technician was pretty clear but I want to be sure it jives with your experience. As others mentioned above, I'd like to believe that Tesla includes safety features such as this in the standard config.

Its also possible that the basic autopilot in the Model Y is configured differently than the 1st level autopilot that we purchased with the early Model 3's. Anyone else have a new Model Y without FSD and can do a quick test?


----------



## JWardell

Tesla Newbie said:


> @FRC - was this ever resolved? I have the same question with a new Model Y. I noticed that neither the lane markings nor the car in my blind spot were turning red in the visualization so I checked with a mobile technician supervisor. He told me that I experience this behavior in our Model 3 because it's a feature of FSD which is absent on our Model Y.
> 
> I'm disappointed because I've become accustomed to glancing at the screen on my way to checking the side mirror and turning around. In Houston many people pass on the right on busy roads. We need all the help we can get. Tesla's BSM may not be as convenient as those from other manufacturers that incorporate the warning into the right side mirror, but I think it does work well.
> 
> The response I got from the technician was pretty clear but I want to be sure it jives with your experience. As others mentioned above, I'd like to believe that Tesla includes safety features such as this in the standard config.
> 
> Its also possible that the basic autopilot in the Model Y is configured differently than the 1st level autopilot that we purchased with the early Model 3's. Anyone else have a new Model Y without FSD and can do a quick test?


I think it's more likely that just as we have seen with plenty of Tesla sales and service people, he has the wrong information.

We certainly all see red cars in our blind spots since we were graced with this feature last year, with or without FSD.

All I can think of is either your autopilot is still calibrating, or perhaps some stuff is still missing from this super early model Y software.


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## Tesla Newbie

JWardell said:


> I think it's more likely that just as we have seen with plenty of Tesla sales and service people, he has the wrong information.
> 
> We certainly all see red cars in our blind spots since we were graced with this feature last year, with or without FSD.
> 
> All I can think of is either your autopilot is still calibrating, or perhaps some stuff is still missing from this super early model Y software.


Hey I hope you're right! Thanks for the reply. I'll be back when I have more info, one way or the other.


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## Tesla Newbie

@JWardell - you were absolutely right.

I had an off-line conversation with @FRC who told me that the "issue was a malfunctioning passenger side B-pillar camera. Mobile replaced this camera and after a brief calibration period the problem was solved.", so I called our local Tesla service center for what I hoped would be a meaningful conversation about next steps.

However the call was routed to a call center somewhere and the rep I reached insisted that the feature was not available in my configuration (no FSD). I tried to describe the difference between a car having FSD hardware (in other words, all Model 3's and Y's), which is the prerequisite for the blind spot monitoring capability, and a car configured with the FSD upgrade, but that went nowhere.

I took to the app to schedule a service appointment for today, if only because this was the only way to have a conversation with someone face to face. At one point in the 15 minute highway drive to the service center I signaled left to overtake a slowpoke in front of me and . . .

The lane marking and a car to my left turned red in the display. I signaled right and the same thing happened. :beercheers: So, one consequence of taking ownership of the car during a global health crisis and being limited in how often and for what duration I drove is that the sensors took close to two weeks to calibrate. Everything appears to be working well.

Thanks for your support in the face of a lot of misinformation from Tesla.


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## GDN

Tesla Newbie said:


> @JWardell - you were absolutely right.
> 
> I had an off-line conversation with @FRC who told me that the "issue was a malfunctioning passenger side B-pillar camera. Mobile replaced this camera and after a brief calibration period the problem was solved.", so I called our local Tesla service center for what I hoped would be a meaningful conversation about next steps.
> 
> However the call was routed to a call center somewhere and the rep I reached insisted that the feature was not available in my configuration (no FSD). I tried to describe the difference between a car having FSD hardware (in other words, all Model 3's and Y's), which is the prerequisite for the blind spot monitoring capability, and a car configured with the FSD upgrade, but that went nowhere.
> 
> I took to the app to schedule a service appointment for today, if only because this was the only way to have a conversation with someone face to face. At one point in the 15 minute highway drive to the service center I signaled left to overtake a slowpoke in front of me and . . .
> 
> The lane marking and a car to my left turned red in the display. I signaled right and the same thing happened. :beercheers: So, one consequence of taking ownership of the car during a global health crisis and being limited in how often and for what duration I drove is that the sensors took close to two weeks to calibrate. Everything appears to be working well.
> 
> Thanks for your support in the face of a lot of misinformation from Tesla.


Whoa - WTH? @FRC diagnosing camera issues? Whats next from him - Corona vaccine? Gotta give a good guy a hard time. Glad there is good knowledge here and through sharing, problems can be solved.


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## JWardell

Tesla Newbie said:


> @JWardell - you were absolutely right.
> 
> I had an off-line conversation with @FRC who told me that the "issue was a malfunctioning passenger side B-pillar camera. Mobile replaced this camera and after a brief calibration period the problem was solved.", so I called our local Tesla service center for what I hoped would be a meaningful conversation about next steps.
> 
> However the call was routed to a call center somewhere and the rep I reached insisted that the feature was not available in my configuration (no FSD). I tried to describe the difference between a car having FSD hardware (in other words, all Model 3's and Y's), which is the prerequisite for the blind spot monitoring capability, and a car configured with the FSD upgrade, but that went nowhere.
> 
> I took to the app to schedule a service appointment for today, if only because this was the only way to have a conversation with someone face to face. At one point in the 15 minute highway drive to the service center I signaled left to overtake a slowpoke in front of me and . . .
> 
> The lane marking and a car to my left turned red in the display. I signaled right and the same thing happened. :beercheers: So, one consequence of taking ownership of the car during a global health crisis and being limited in how often and for what duration I drove is that the sensors took close to two weeks to calibrate. Everything appears to be working well.
> 
> Thanks for your support in the face of a lot of misinformation from Tesla.


I can now read info such as what the status of each camera is...perhaps we could eventually troubleshoot the issue if I could plug into the car. Part of the reason I compile all this is so maybe in the future people or 3rd party repair can diagnose issues. But anyway last week while digging up blind spot signals there are plenty of states for each camera as well.


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