# Congress Discusses EV Tax Credit Expansion



## Curt Renz

MarketWatch - 25 minutes ago: EV Tax Credit

Contact those who represent you in Congress regarding this issue. I have. 

Here's what I wrote:

Please aggressively support the proposed extension of Electric Vehicle (EV) tax credits. However, the bill could be improved by providing a sunset date, rather than the currently proposed production limit per manufacturer. The production limit punishes the innovators that were first to make EVs, while giving the latecomers reason to dawdle even longer.


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## tesla m3

I feel like price point on existing EVs are near ICE, and as a tax payer, I don't want the government involved in handing out cash to people. Especially if it's going to be going mostly for people buying 50k+ vehicles. 

Also I really dislike how it's being done. Foreign companies like VW have sub-brands like Porsche, Audi, etc and they individually get the same tax credit Tesla gets. So while Tesla gets one set of credits, companies like VW who share platforms between their brands, get paid multiple times over.


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## MelindaV

tesla m3 said:


> Also I really dislike how it's being done. Foreign companies like VW have sub-brands like Porsche, Audi, etc and they individually get the same tax credit Tesla gets. So while Tesla gets one set of credits, companies like VW who share platforms between their brands, get paid multiple times over.


I believe they are lumped together as far as the phaseout is concerned


IRS 30D said:


> Would two entities that are part of the same controlled group pursuant to section 30D(e)(4), be able to qualify for separate volume caps as a result of the definition of "manufacturer" pursuant to section 30D(d)(3)?
> No. Two entities that are part of the same controlled group under section 30D(e)(4), as discussed below, would not qualify for separate volume caps.
> 
> Are each of the "manufacturers" listed on the 30D page separate manufacturers for purposes of Section 30D(e) (and thus under separate 200,000 caps), or is that just a breakdown of different companies/brands, even if some may be under a shared volume cap?
> The irs.gov site focuses on identifying the vehicles which qualify for the Section 30D New Qualified Plug-In Electric Drive Motor Vehicle Credit in an easy to understand manner for the general public. The listing is by manufacturer, or brand, even if some may be under a shared volume cap. When a phase out level is reached, which includes the controlled groups, all affected manufacturer/brand names listed are updated to include the phrase "Phase Out Initiated."


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## slacker775

tesla m3 said:


> I feel like price point on existing EVs are near ICE, and as a tax payer, I don't want the government involved in handing out cash to people. Especially if it's going to be going mostly for people buying 50k+ vehicles.
> .


Really, the whole point of the incentive is to drive behavior changes. During the time of the initial M3 rollout, it 'seemed' like the $7500 was going to the buyer, but based on the price changes that Tesla implemented during the phaseout, it was really going to them, with the buyer fronting it and then getting reimbursed later.

For the government, subsidies like this can be more cost effective and more popular than other options. While the current EV incentive certainly has shown it's lack of forethought, it was a better driver for spurring EV purchases than more hard-core regulations that likely would have only led to more crappy compliance cars.

The whole phaseout after X cars is a poor model, unless it was across the entire industry (once all manufacturers sell 1M cars, it starts dropping for example). The phase outs should likely just be more time based or the like and be more brand agnostic.


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## msjulie

First stop fossil fuel subsidies then the EV ones can end...


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## bwilson4web

Now that I own two EVs, I'd prefer to see fairness in the 'missing gas tax' fees. Perhaps reduce Federal highway funds for any state using less than the EPA MPGe value to calculate the lost revenue. Efficiency should not be annually taxed.

Bob Wilson


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## tesla m3

MelindaV said:


> I believe they are lumped together as far as the phaseout is concerned


Nope... many companies still getting the full $7500 credit right now. They get the same advantages as the first movers, and can now sell cheaper vehicles now that their competitors have proven the market exists and have created demand for them. In fact, with battery tech advancements, company like Volvo can get their batts cheaper now than before.


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## garsh

tesla m3 said:


> Nope... many companies still getting the full $7500 credit right now.


Correct, but Melinda's point was that members of the same conglomerate (ex - VW and Porsche) share the same credit pool.


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## Curt Renz

Electrek - yesterday: EV Tax Credits

Below is what I have most recently written to those who represent me in Congress. Others may want to do the same.
__________

Please change the wording in the bill that proposes an expansion of Electric Vehicle (EV) tax credits. The bill could be greatly improved by providing a universal SUNSET date, or a quota for the TOTAL number of new EVs delivered in the US, rather than the currently proposed production limit per manufacturer.

The individual production limit for each manufacturer punishes the risk-taking American innovators that were first to make EVs, while giving the latecomers (including foreigners) reason to dawdle even longer.

The tax credit goes to car buyers, not the manufacturers, so it makes no sense to relate the tax credit to individual production quotas for each company. Consumers should not be forced to choose an EV based on which particular brands still qualify for tax credits.

In any event, please see that the EV tax credit expansion bill is passed in some shape or form. But do not include hybrid vehicles, which would defeat the purpose. Our prospects for a future with clean air and a non-harmful climate are depending on you.


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## Dr. J

tesla m3 said:


> as a tax payer, I don't want the government involved in handing out cash to people.


That ship sailed a long, long, long time ago. Currently:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/B087RC1Q027SBEA


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## Garlan Garner

Looks like a $7000 tax credit might be back for Tesla.

Tesla to get access to $7,000 tax credit on 400,000 more electric cars in the US with new incentive reform (electrek.co)

Tesla to gain access to 400k more $7k EV tax credits amid Biden's sustainability push (teslarati.com)


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## $ Trillion Musk

Garlan Garner said:


> Looks like a $7000 tax credit might be back for Tesla.
> 
> Tesla to get access to $7,000 tax credit on 400,000 more electric cars in the US with new incentive reform (electrek.co)
> 
> Tesla to gain access to 400k more $7k EV tax credits amid Biden's sustainability push (teslarati.com)


Exactly what I was hoping for with a Biden administration. Music to my ears!

Plus we get $5k off and $0 tax here in NJ.


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## JasonF

Curt Renz said:


> However, the bill could be improved by providing a sunset date, rather than the currently proposed production limit per manufacturer.


I'd rather have it consistent with Tesla's (and Musk's) mission, and subsidize only the cost of the battery to make EV's more competitive with gas cars. It will also cause the rebate to taper off as battery costs fall. Also, as EV sales increase an economy of scale kicks in, reducing battery costs further, finally sunsetting the subsidy.


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## $ Trillion Musk

$ Trillion Musk said:


> Exactly what I was hoping for with a Biden administration. Music to my ears!
> 
> Plus we get $5k off and $0 tax here in NJ.


NJ $5k EV tax incentive is on hold until July/August 2021.
https://nj1015.com/sold-out-nj-electric-vehicle-incentive-on-hold-until-summer/


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## bwilson4web

I bought TSLA stock at current $60 so pretty much all of a sale would be subject to Capital Gains, 15%. So that means:

$7,000 / 15% ~= $46,666 TSLA sale whose taxes would be covered by the credit
Will wait for the actual bill to be passed before using $7k or the actual credit number
Bob Wilson


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## Tesla blue Y

does anyone have the number of the bill which would extend the EV tax credit, so that I can reference it.

Thanks


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## Bigriver

Tesla blue 3 said:


> does anyone have the number of the bill which would extend the EV tax credit, so that I can reference it.
> 
> Thanks


https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th...ext?r=7#toc-H653267F63F2A4CAB859C9F9613D76BE0


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## Tesla blue Y

Bigriver said:


> https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th...ext?r=7#toc-H653267F63F2A4CAB859C9F9613D76BE0


Thank you so much


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