# Firmware Build V9.0 2019.20.4.2 66625e9 (6/25/2019)



## Pol Bettinger

The new version is rolling out just after 2019.4.1 (got that yesterday and currently updating again) probably only bug fix. Will check release note once done updating


MOD EDIT - Please refrain from "I got it" and "+1" posts. Please add meaningful talk about the release only. Use the poll at the top to register that you got the release. This post was the thread starter, leaving it in place.


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## Dave EV

Release notes appear to be unchanged from 2019.20.4.1...


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## GRiMm-V-

Sorry for the blurry 1st pic. Looks like bug fixes. Had installed 20.4.1 yesterday.


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## harrison987

Nothing new on the surface... Same release notes as previous


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## Pol Bettinger

I can confirm that no changes to the release notes from 20.4.1 to 20.4.2 also for Europe.


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## Deadbattery

Tesla is rolling this out without requiring WIFI. My car updated on a road trip 
Teslafi showing over 550 (as of 6:58 est) today 

fastest update I have seen


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## Francois Gaucher

Just got it in Montreal. No change in the release notes but still a lot of phantom break


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## Ze1000

I don't think the color proximity indicator was there before.
It was when parking, but not when driving.
I even felt the steering wheel move a couple of times (when autosteer was on) to add some distance to the close object/curb.


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## MelindaV

Ze1000 said:


> I don't think the color proximity indicator was there before.


this is how it has been


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## Ze1000

MelindaV said:


> this is how it has been


I remember the white/grey proximity indicators, but not the grey/yellow/orange/red that I saw today after upgrading to 2019.20.4.2


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## MelindaV

My parking lot at work, essentially an ally with angled parking on one side and a guard rail on the other, triggers the sensors for the entire length, and they have always been colored (and sounds like walking thru a vegas casino). In my home garage, coming up to items have also shown colors, and when parked right against the water heater shows red when in park.


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## Needsdecaf

Ze1000 said:


> I remember the white/grey proximity indicators, but not the grey/yellow/orange/red that I saw today after upgrading to 2019.20.4.2


What version did you come from? That's been around since 2019.16.X I don't think it was in 2019.12.X. But it's 100% not new for 2019.20.X


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## garsh

MelindaV said:


> My parking lot at work, essentially an ally with angled parking on one side and a guard rail on the other, triggers the sensors for the entire length


But that's fairly low speed, right?

At highway speeds, older versions of the software always seemed to go from grey to red. These last several versions of software appear to have added yellow at highway speeds.


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## Needsdecaf

MelindaV said:


> My parking lot at work, essentially an ally with angled parking on one side and a guard rail on the other, triggers the sensors for the entire length, and they have always been colored (and sounds like walking thru a vegas casino). In my home garage, coming up to items have also shown colors, and when parked right against the water heater shows red when in park.


The low speed sensor lines have always been colored. But not the higher speed ones that was introduced with the "improved visualization" which featured the cooler looking car that turned. I'm pretty sure that's what's being referred to.


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## MelindaV

Needsdecaf said:


> The low speed sensor lines have always been colored. But not the higher speed ones that was introduced with the "improved visualization" which featured the cooler looking car that turned. I'm pretty sure that's what's being referred to.


I always have seen them driving on the freeway in color as well - but maybe my drives are slow enough to have them show in color - or at faster speeds everyone is spaced out more.


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## Ze1000

MelindaV said:


> My parking lot at work, essentially an ally with angled parking on one side and a guard rail on the other, triggers the sensors for the entire length, and they have always been colored (and sounds like walking thru a vegas casino). In my home garage, coming up to items have also shown colors, and when parked right against the water heater shows red when in park.


During parking procedures the color coded proximity was always there, even with showed the shape of the obstruction and distance.


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## Ze1000

Needsdecaf said:


> What version did you come from? That's been around since 2019.16.X I don't think it was in 2019.12.X. But it's 100% not new for 2019.20.X


It might be true. I didn't notice before though. Today was the first time. I came from 20.4.1, but had 20.2.1 and 20.1 before. Interesting that I didn't noticed it.


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## AB3DC

Must be important bug fixes. Got this over LTE.


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## rpreuss

AB3DC said:


> Must be important bug fixes. Got this over LTE.


I wonder why we are never told what bugs were fixed. There is always a lot of chatter about "this still doesn't work", etc. It would be nice if we knew if there were safety issues.


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## lance.bailey

i strongly suspect safety or security bugs. pure speculation.


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## garsh

rpreuss said:


> I wonder why we are never told what bugs were fixed.


TSLAQ would have a field day with such information.


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## MelindaV

my drive in on 20.4.2 TACC and AP were great this morning. slowing, speeding up, others merging, etc all were smooth and where a passenger would not notice anything unusual vs a person controlling the car.

a manual lane change from the center to a gap in the fast lane ended up triggering the collision warning when passing the back of the semi I had been following - apparently it didn't think I was far enough centered in the new lane before beginning to pass him. 
and when parking, again same as yesterday on 20.4.1, the backup camera worked perfectly the first time, but when used immediately a second time was black.


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## Hollywood7

rpreuss said:


> I wonder why we are never told what bugs were fixed. There is always a lot of chatter about "this still doesn't work", etc. It would be nice if we knew if there were safety issues.


The main reason release notes are not more detailed is most people would not understand what was fixed anyway. Most are under the hood repairs.
below is a sample of a ".1 " release fix for an Apache server:
*Apache access log (success - code 200):*
192.168.2.20 - - [28/Jul/2006:10:27:10 -0300] "GET /cgi-bin/try/ HTTP/1.0" 200 3395
127.0.0.1 - - [28/Jul/2006:10:22:04 -0300] "GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 2216

*Apache access log (failure - code 4xx):*
127.0.0.1 - - [28/Jul/2006:10:27:32 -0300] "GET /hidden/ HTTP/1.0" 404 7218

*Apache unnacepted request methods (caused by TortoiseSVN):*
x.x.x.90 - - [13/Sep/2006:07:01:53 -0700] "PROPFIND /svn/[xxxx]/Extranet/branches/SOW-101 HTTP/1.1" 401 587
x.x.x.90 - - [13/Sep/2006:07:01:51 -0700] "PROPFIND /svn/[xxxx]/[xxxx]/trunk HTTP/1.1" 401 587
x.x.x.90 - - [13/Sep/2006:07:00:53 -0700] "PROPFIND /svn/[xxxx]/[xxxx]/2.5 HTTP/1.1" 401 587
x.x.x.90 - - [13/Sep/2006:07:00:53 -0700] "PROPFIND /svn/[xxxx]/Extranet/branches/SOW-101 HTTP/1.1" 401 587
x.x.x.90 - - [13/Sep/2006:07:00:21 -0700] "PROPFIND /svn/[xxxx]/[xxxx]/trunk HTTP/1.1" 401 587
x.x.x.90 - - [13/Sep/2006:06:59:53 -0700] "PROPFIND /svn/[xxxx]/[xxxx]/2.5 HTTP/1.1" 401 587
x.x.x.90 - - [13/Sep/2006:06:59:50 -0700] "PROPFIND /svn/[xxxx]/[xxxx]/trunk HTTP/1.1" 401 587
x.x.x.90 - - [13/Sep/2006:06:58:52 -0700] "PROPFIND /svn/[xxxx]/[xxxx]/trunk HTTP/1.1" 401 587
x.x.x.90 - - [13/Sep/2006:06:58:52 -0700] "PROPFIND /svn/[xxxx]/Extranet/branches/SOW-101 HTTP/1.1" 401 587

*Apache error log:*
[Fri Dec 16 01:46:23 2005] [error] [client 1.2.3.4] Directory index forbidden by rule: /home/test/
[Fri Dec 16 01:54:34 2005] [error] [client 1.2.3.4] Directory index forbidden by rule: /apache/web-data/test2
[Fri Dec 16 02:25:55 2005] [error] [client 1.2.3.4] Client sent malformed Host header
[Mon Dec 19 23:02:01 2005] [error] [client 1.2.3.4] user test: authentication failure for "/~dcid/test1": Password Mismatch

*Apache error log (startup) 3 examples:*
** Normal (v2.x)
[Sat Aug 12 04:05:51 2006] [notice] Apache/1.3.11 (Unix) mod_perl/1.21 configured -- resuming normal operations
[Thu Jun 22 14:20:55 2006] [notice] Digest: generating secret for digest authentication ...
[Thu Jun 22 14:20:55 2006] [notice] Digest: done
[Thu Jun 22 14:20:55 2006] [notice] Apache/2.0.46 (Red Hat) DAV/2 configured -- resuming normal operations

** Restart by HUP signal (optional suEXEC)
[Sat Aug 12 04:05:49 2006] [notice] SIGHUP received. Attempting to restart
[Sat Aug 12 04:05:51 2006] [notice] suEXEC mechanism enabled (wrapper: /usr/local/apache/sbin/suexec)

** after 'unclean' shutdown (left over PID file)
[Sat Jun 24 09:06:22 2006] [warn] pid file /opt/CA/BrightStorARCserve/httpd/logs/httpd.pid overwritten -- Unclean shutdown of previous Apache run?
[Sat Jun 24 09:06:23 2006] [notice] Apache/2.0.46 (Red Hat) DAV/2 configured -- resuming normal operations
[Sat Jun 24 09:06:22 2006] [notice] Digest: generating secret for digest authentication ...
[Sat Jun 24 09:06:22 2006] [notice] Digest: done

*Apache error log (shutdown by TERM signal):*
[Thu Jun 22 11:35:48 2006] [notice] caught SIGTERM, shutting down

*Apache without resources:*
[Tue Mar 08 10:34:21 2005] [error] (11)Resource temporarily unavailable: fork: Unable to fork new process
[Tue Mar 08 10:34:31 2005] [error] (11)Resource temporarily unavailable: fork: Unable to fork new process


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## Long Ranger

Yesterday I reported that my car showed an immediate 4% battery drain upon installing 2019.20.4.1. Just wanted to provide an update that today it reported a 1% battery _gain_ upon installing 2019.20.4.2. I suspect that there might have been a battery reporting error in 2019.20.4.1, at least on my car. Not a big deal, but at least it seems to confirm that the 4% drain that I saw yesterday was an anomaly.

Yesterday:
70 miles, 23% on 2019.20.2.1
58 miles, 19% after upgrade to 2019.20.4.1

Today:
84 miles, 27% on 2019.20.4.1
86 miles, 28% after upgrade to 2019.20.4.2


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## Pol Bettinger

I read also that the hurry to push 20.4.2 came from Phantom powerdrain. My car downloaded it while commuting, at home no show of the update. When putting the car into park I got the update on that second (It still hadn't connected to Wifi then) .

I can only compare the drain I had yesterday during work time that was a bit over 2kWh (with sentry on), almost as much as my commute.
Today it was 1.4kWh during the same time span... So a difference, but was it that urgent to push via LTE? Or was it something different?


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## DocScott

garsh said:


> TSLAQ would have a field day with such information.


And Tesla supporters would brag that their cars fix problems with over the air updates.

Remember when Consumer Reports found that the Model 3 didn't do well with repeated hard braking, and Tesla fixed the problem with an over-the-air update? Critics took it as a sign of the car being terrible, and supporters took it as a sign of the car being amazing.


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## DocScott

Hollywood7 said:


> The main reason release notes are not more detailed is most people would not understand what was fixed anyway. Most are under the hood repairs.
> below is a sample of a ".1 " release fix for an Apache server:
> *Apache access log (success - code 200):*
> 192.168.2.20 - - [28/Jul/2006:10:27:10 -0300] "GET /cgi-bin/try/ HTTP/1.0" 200 3395
> 127.0.0.1 - - [28/Jul/2006:10:22:04 -0300] "GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 2216
> 
> *Apache access log (failure - code 4xx):*
> 127.0.0.1 - - [28/Jul/2006:10:27:32 -0300] "GET /hidden/ HTTP/1.0" 404 7218
> 
> *Apache unnacepted request methods (caused by TortoiseSVN):*
> x.x.x.90 - - [13/Sep/2006:07:01:53 -0700] "PROPFIND /svn/[xxxx]/Extranet/branches/SOW-101 HTTP/1.1" 401 587
> x.x.x.90 - - [13/Sep/2006:07:01:51 -0700] "PROPFIND /svn/[xxxx]/[xxxx]/trunk HTTP/1.1" 401 587
> x.x.x.90 - - [13/Sep/2006:07:00:53 -0700] "PROPFIND /svn/[xxxx]/[xxxx]/2.5 HTTP/1.1" 401 587
> x.x.x.90 - - [13/Sep/2006:07:00:53 -0700] "PROPFIND /svn/[xxxx]/Extranet/branches/SOW-101 HTTP/1.1" 401 587
> x.x.x.90 - - [13/Sep/2006:07:00:21 -0700] "PROPFIND /svn/[xxxx]/[xxxx]/trunk HTTP/1.1" 401 587
> x.x.x.90 - - [13/Sep/2006:06:59:53 -0700] "PROPFIND /svn/[xxxx]/[xxxx]/2.5 HTTP/1.1" 401 587
> x.x.x.90 - - [13/Sep/2006:06:59:50 -0700] "PROPFIND /svn/[xxxx]/[xxxx]/trunk HTTP/1.1" 401 587
> x.x.x.90 - - [13/Sep/2006:06:58:52 -0700] "PROPFIND /svn/[xxxx]/[xxxx]/trunk HTTP/1.1" 401 587
> x.x.x.90 - - [13/Sep/2006:06:58:52 -0700] "PROPFIND /svn/[xxxx]/Extranet/branches/SOW-101 HTTP/1.1" 401 587
> 
> *Apache error log:*
> [Fri Dec 16 01:46:23 2005] [error] [client 1.2.3.4] Directory index forbidden by rule: /home/test/
> [Fri Dec 16 01:54:34 2005] [error] [client 1.2.3.4] Directory index forbidden by rule: /apache/web-data/test2
> [Fri Dec 16 02:25:55 2005] [error] [client 1.2.3.4] Client sent malformed Host header
> [Mon Dec 19 23:02:01 2005] [error] [client 1.2.3.4] user test: authentication failure for "/~dcid/test1": Password Mismatch
> 
> *Apache error log (startup) 3 examples:*
> ** Normal (v2.x)
> [Sat Aug 12 04:05:51 2006] [notice] Apache/1.3.11 (Unix) mod_perl/1.21 configured -- resuming normal operations
> [Thu Jun 22 14:20:55 2006] [notice] Digest: generating secret for digest authentication ...
> [Thu Jun 22 14:20:55 2006] [notice] Digest: done
> [Thu Jun 22 14:20:55 2006] [notice] Apache/2.0.46 (Red Hat) DAV/2 configured -- resuming normal operations
> 
> ** Restart by HUP signal (optional suEXEC)
> [Sat Aug 12 04:05:49 2006] [notice] SIGHUP received. Attempting to restart
> [Sat Aug 12 04:05:51 2006] [notice] suEXEC mechanism enabled (wrapper: /usr/local/apache/sbin/suexec)
> 
> ** after 'unclean' shutdown (left over PID file)
> [Sat Jun 24 09:06:22 2006] [warn] pid file /opt/CA/BrightStorARCserve/httpd/logs/httpd.pid overwritten -- Unclean shutdown of previous Apache run?
> [Sat Jun 24 09:06:23 2006] [notice] Apache/2.0.46 (Red Hat) DAV/2 configured -- resuming normal operations
> [Sat Jun 24 09:06:22 2006] [notice] Digest: generating secret for digest authentication ...
> [Sat Jun 24 09:06:22 2006] [notice] Digest: done
> 
> *Apache error log (shutdown by TERM signal):*
> [Thu Jun 22 11:35:48 2006] [notice] caught SIGTERM, shutting down
> 
> *Apache without resources:*
> [Tue Mar 08 10:34:21 2005] [error] (11)Resource temporarily unavailable: fork: Unable to fork new process
> [Tue Mar 08 10:34:31 2005] [error] (11)Resource temporarily unavailable: fork: Unable to fork new process


There's a reasonable in-between. We've all seen update logs for apps and games that say things equivalent to "fixed various bugs related to display of neighboring cars; fixed a bug that appeared when driving at low speeds along a high speed limit road at night; various improvements in situational awareness while on Autopilot; improvements to neural net."


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## Needsdecaf

Long Ranger said:


> Yesterday I reported that my car showed an immediate 4% battery drain upon installing 2019.20.4.1. Just wanted to provide an update that today it reported a 1% battery _gain_ upon installing 2019.20.4.2. I suspect that there might have been a battery reporting error in 2019.20.4.1, at least on my car. Not a big deal, but at least it seems to confirm that the 4% drain that I saw yesterday was an anomaly.
> 
> Yesterday:
> 70 miles, 23% on 2019.20.2.1
> 58 miles, 19% after upgrade to 2019.20.4.1
> 
> Today:
> 84 miles, 27% on 2019.20.4.1
> 86 miles, 28% after upgrade to 2019.20.4.2


This jibes with some of the rumblings I saw on twitter about range DECREASING.


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## myanonm3

There is a report to AP crash causes Parking at highway with 2019.4.1 at reddit. or any critical bug with 2019.4.1 cause this release in a hurry I bet.


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## roghaj

All I can figure from that is that one of us has been drinking.... ???


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## TesLou

MelindaV said:


> this is how it has been





MelindaV said:


> my drive in on 20.4.2 TACC and AP were great this morning. slowing, speeding up, others merging, etc all were smooth and where a passenger would not notice anything unusual vs a person controlling the car.
> 
> a manual lane change from the center to a gap in the fast lane ended up triggering the collision warning when passing the back of the semi I had been following - apparently it didn't think I was far enough centered in the new lane before beginning to pass him.
> and when parking, again same as yesterday on 20.4.1, the backup camera worked perfectly the first time, but when used immediately a second time was black.


 I'm heading home from an 800 mile work trip. I got 20.4.1 on Sunday. My drive to Pittsburgh yesterday was marred with a lot of erratic behavior on AP; particularly with traffic merging on and off the freeway as well as slowing for slight grades. Also, sometimes the car would pace itself way behind the car in front, even with the setting on 1. I hope this version fixes all that. I'm stopped to charge now. 200 miles to go to get home. I'll upload this version before I start my last leg and monitor for improvements.


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## HCD3

TesLou said:


> I'm heading home from an 800 mile work trip. I got 20.4.1 on Sunday. My drive to Pittsburgh yesterday was marred with a lot of erratic behavior on AP; particularly with traffic merging on and off the freeway as well as slowing for slight grades. Also, sometimes the car would pace itself way behind the car in front, even with the setting on 1. I hope this version fixes all that. I'm stopped to charge now. 200 miles to go to get home. I'll upload this version before I start my last leg and monitor for improvements.


Phantom braking is still as bad as ever. Must be pissing off the guy behind me. However my drive today was uneventful, the best kind. This update thankfully didn't break Homelink. Testing Auto Pilot nag time was same as before, approximately 30 seconds. I don't use AP without hands on the wheel as I still lack trust in it.


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## Bokonon

Hollywood7 said:


> The main reason release notes are not more detailed is most people would not understand what was fixed anyway.


Nonsense! It's all in plain English. For example:



Hollywood7 said:


> [Fri Dec 16 02:25:55 2005] [error] [client 1.2.3.4] Client sent malformed Host header


"While treating a client to lunch, he took out a soccer ball and bounced it off his head toward the host, who had octopus tentacles for arms and a Swiss-cheese head."



Hollywood7 said:


> [Sat Aug 12 04:05:49 2006] [notice] SIGHUP received. Attempting to restart


"I turned my head skyward and let out a big sigh, because my client's strange antics were seriously jeopardizing the deal."



Hollywood7 said:


> [Thu Jun 22 14:20:55 2006] [notice] Digest: done


"I excused myself to use the restroom."



Hollywood7 said:


> [Tue Mar 08 10:34:31 2005] [error] (11)Resource temporarily unavailable: fork:


"Upon returning, I discovered that I was missing a utensil."



Hollywood7 said:


> Unable to fork new process


"...which was unfortunate, because I really wanted to stick it in the client's eye and start over."


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## Sdp51

Updated at work. On the drive home, autopilot drove right past the planned expressway interchange with no traffic in the way. Never seen that before.


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## SoFlaModel3

Dave EV said:


> Release notes appear to be unchanged from 2019.20.4.1...


Any time you see a move from a ".1" to a ".2" especially that fast, it's generally just but fixes and the release notes remain the same so that those who didn't get 20.4.1 but will go directly to 20.4.2 see the new features of 20.4.


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## mikeskuro

First time poster. 2019.20.4.2 arrived last night on our two Model 3 LR AWD(Late 2018 & Early 2019). I am not going to %100 but always like to check it out. I have about an 1:10 left to charge, its at about %94 judging by my math if I went to %100 this is the first time that the car would actually charge to 320 plus miles of calculated range. I usually have seen 306-309 on mine % wise. Thanks Tesla!


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## lance.bailey

upgraded to 20.4.2 last night and took a quick test run around the block. Noticed that the gray proximity curves as I pass parked cars or other is much thicker and more obvious.

also noticed that my TACC test section was handled much better with a much smoother brake on the last turn but still with a sudden acceleration following so some improvements there.

admitedly i did not get much time with 20.4.1 installed the night before, so some of these changes might be from there, but the proximity curves immediately leapt out at me after the 20.4.2 upgrade.


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## TesLou

HCD3 said:


> Phantom braking is still as bad as ever. Must be pissing off the guy behind me. However my drive today was uneventful, the best kind. This update thankfully didn't break Homelink. Testing Auto Pilot nag time was same as before, approximately 30 seconds. I don't use AP without hands on the wheel as I still lack trust in it.


On the final 200 mile leg of my trip last night, I had a few instances of traffic merging off and on highway ramps. The new version seemed to handle this much better. Not a single panic maneuver during those 200 miles.


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## dburkland

Sdp51 said:


> Updated at work. On the drive home, autopilot drove right past the planned expressway interchange with no traffic in the way. Never seen that before.


Unfortunately I've seen these a lot in the .20. releases in places where I NEVER had issues with NoA before :/


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## Mike

AB3DC said:


> Must be important bug fixes. Got this over LTE.


Maybe the UI screen won't go too dark, in auto, at night with this quick fix............


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## MelindaV

Mike said:


> Maybe the UI screen won't go too dark, in auto, at night with this quick fix............


you can tune the minimum level the new auto dim sets to.


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## Kizzy

lance.bailey said:


> upgraded to 20.4.2 last night and took a quick test run around the block. Noticed that the gray proximity curves as I pass parked cars or other is much thicker and more obvious.
> 
> also noticed that my TACC test section was handled much better with a much smoother brake on the last turn but still with a sudden acceleration following so some improvements there.
> 
> admitedly i did not get much time with 20.4.1 installed the night before, so some of these changes might be from there, but the proximity curves immediately leapt out at me after the 20.4.2 upgrade.


Something that I'm noticing now (that may have started in an earlier 20.x.x build (with the new rendering) is that when Autopilot detects lane lines, the rendering has thicker lines, when it doesn't, the lane rendering lines are thinner.


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## lance.bailey

I first noticed the thicker lines in a 30kph playground zone with no AP engaged. I will have to check on this when I get my next Tesla allotment (Friday).


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## FRC

Kizzy said:


> Something that I'm noticing now (that may have started in an earlier 20.x.x build (with the new rendering) is that when Autopilot detects lane lines, the rendering has thicker lines, when it doesn't, the lane rendering lines are thinner.


I think this started with the bird's eye view update. However, I thought the thicker lines were when the image of the car was larger. I'll have to watch more carefully.


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## Mike

MelindaV said:


> you can tune the minimum level the new auto dim sets to.


Yes, thanks for providing that work around to overcome the induced software issue, I have applied it.

I'll know next time I drive at or after sundown.....which is past my bed time right now


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## Mike

I noticed parked cars being rendered on a section of two lane village road I drive on everyday and these were never depicted before.


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## MelindaV

Mike said:


> I noticed parked cars being rendered on a section of two lane village road I drive on everyday and these were never depicted before.


jsut before my neighborhood, I come up to a 4way stop where there are cars parked on both shoulders of the road. When I turn my left signal on, it always shows the cars on the far shoulder (across the oncoming traffic lane) as red (blindspot warning). I've not paid attention if they are rendered prior to turning on the signal, but they have been with the blindspot warning since that feature was released - and from 25 or 30 feet away at that.


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## Deliverance

I upgraded from 20.2.1 My LTE is back to normal (kept going missing or not transmitting, receiving) and Wi-Fi signal is stronger than ever (at least on the screen), it used to be very poor under my cart port. Love the new game, but is hard to maneuver!


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## GRiMm-V-

This version handles the lane change better on one section where I'm merging from one hwy to another. The lane markings at that exact spot are barely visible. Previous versions would start the lane change and then abort mid way. This version had no such hiccups. 
However on another exit ramp I take regularly to work (almost a 270 deg off ramp) the car handles it at a much lower speed than before. Previously would do ~40mph while this version seemed to hesitate to cross 30mph


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## lance.bailey

Drove a co-worker home yesterday and talked about the AP and NOA and so on of course. Realized after a lane change I haven't experienced an aborted lane change for a number of updates - I think they've gotten it right!


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## Needsdecaf

Deliverance said:


> I upgraded from 20.2.1 My LTE is back to normal (kept going missing or not transmitting, receiving) and Wi-Fi signal is stronger than ever (at least on the screen), it used to be very poor under my cart port. Love the new game, but is hard to maneuver!


Small, small steering inputs. And brake before sharper turns.  And if you get totally askew, I find it is faster to stop, point in the right direction, then go instead of sawing at the wheel trying to get straight!


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## Needsdecaf

lance.bailey said:


> Drove a co-worker home yesterday and talked about the AP and NOA and so on of course. Realized after a lane change I haven't experienced an aborted lane change for a number of updates - I think they've gotten it right!


Good to hear. I plan on re-enabling NOA without notifications for the drive home tonight and see how it does.


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## WonkoTheSane

Since getting 20.4.2 (never got .1) I'm having a lot of trouble using my Samsung Galaxy 8 as a key. The app connects and I can unlock doors but it fails to work as a key 1/3rd of the time. It also turned on Sentry mode in my garage and recorded 99 events (filling the drive with video of no movement).
I've done the two-finger salute, maybe I need to try the two-finger, one foot method.


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## Rich M

After this update, the charge rate was set to 25A for some reason. I had to turn it back up to the usual 48A.


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## Dave EV

Deliverance said:


> I upgraded from 20.2.1 My LTE is back to normal (kept going missing or not transmitting, receiving)


Hmm, had my cellular connection go away tonight on 2019.20.4.2, hadn't had that happen in ages. Didn't wait to see if a reboot would fix it, will know in the morning.


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## Needsdecaf

Needsdecaf said:


> Good to hear. I plan on re-enabling NOA without notifications for the drive home tonight and see how it does.


To follow up on this it was doing pretty decently, or at least until the torrential rains started. Got a few warnings that the systems were not available, one was no NOA due to weather and the second was no lane departure warning.

I will give this more time on this release. It does seem to have improved. Stay tuned...


----------



## lance.bailey

Needsdecaf said:


> To follow up on this it was doing pretty decently, or at least until the torrential rains started.


I'm in the xc60 hybrid today and we have rain for the first time in about 2 months. hard rain. the car's "Pilot Assist" system kept pushing me over to the right, wanting to leave the lane. very unusual behaviour.

I think that poor visibility must be the bane of developing autonomous car.


----------



## justaute

FWIW, installed last night and drove the car this morning.

- Phone-key unlock seems to work better for me. Phone does not have to be as close to the doors. When unlocking the rear doors, it did so on the first attempt. No problem starting. My phone is Essential PH-1.
- Hands-free phone did not automatically transfer from phone-to-car. Was on the phone, and upon entering the just un-locked car, my call stayed with the phone. I then manually switched from phone to car. I prefer this way.
- Noticed the layout change of the icons.

Have yet to uncover any other issues. We'll see.


----------



## Jan Groenen

Had some Phantom breaking today. Seems to be when I drive towards a bridge crossing the highway. Annoying


----------



## Klaus-rf

Since installing 20.4.2 (installed 20.4.1 but did not drive car with that version) AP left lane changes fail ~80% of the time while right lane changes work 100%. Blinker stays on forever (until I cancel it or cancel AP) while the car does not attempt to change lanes.


----------



## mikeskuro

I know slacker and tune in are not loved, but they both do not seem to be working with this update for me... anyone else?


----------



## Needsdecaf

mikeskuro said:


> I know slacker and tune in are not loved, but they both do not seem to be working with this update for me... anyone else?


Working fine for me.


----------



## eagleco

Not sure if it was this update or a previous one, but I let AP try a (closely supervised) left hand turn at an intersection (oustide lane of a two lane offramp turning left onto a three lane road) yesterday and it actually succeeded in a more or less "human" fashion. In past versions it would start the turn but then get scared and straighten the wheel, requiring intervention. 

Any guesses when we'll start to see HW3 retrofits and firmware that takes advantage of it?


----------



## Klaus-rf

I tried AP today on un-lined residential roads and it successfully (although appearing a bit unsure of itself) successfully managed the winding road without incident.

It still fails >80% making left lane changes. 

No idea when we might see hdwr updates. I doubt Tesla will be the initiator for the update though. Time to start nagging your favorite SC?


----------



## John

Interesting—at least to me—was that the download finished a couple days before the update was allowed.
Hmmm...


----------



## Learner

Yes installed


Long Ranger said:


> Yesterday I reported that my car showed an immediate 4% battery drain upon installing 2019.20.4.1. Just wanted to provide an update that today it reported a 1% battery _gain_ upon installing 2019.20.4.2. I suspect that there might have been a battery reporting error in 2019.20.4.1, at least on my car. Not a big deal, but at least it seems to confirm that the 4% drain that I saw yesterday was an anomaly.
> 
> Yesterday:
> 70 miles, 23% on 2019.20.2.1
> 58 miles, 19% after upgrade to 2019.20.4.1
> 
> Today:
> 84 miles, 27% on 2019.20.4.1
> 86 miles, 28% after upgrade to 2019.20.4.2


----------



## barjohn

If there is one bug that should have been stomped out by now, this has to be it. It makes TACC and NoAP almost unusable when you have passengers. First because of the abrupt behavior and second because of the fear of being rear ended.

I am wondering whether the large number of false positives is due to the limitations on the computing power in the NN hardware to process sufficient data in real-time and thus the system is set to react rather than contemplate before making a decisive move/action. It would be helpful to know if the new hardware is exhibiting the same phenomenon. I am also wondering if the visual renderings lag reality by the same amount but this would take some measuring in two different vehicles to ascertain.

Looking forward to your data and information.


----------



## Francois Gaucher

Did a trip from north of Montreal to Sherbrooke, and back to home, for around 450 km total. Mostly all on autopilot, NoA. No phantom breaking, smooth lane change, successful off ramp / on ramp.


----------



## lance.bailey

lance.bailey said:


> I first noticed the thicker lines in a 30kph playground zone with no AP engaged. I will have to check on this when I get my next Tesla allotment (Friday).


got the Tesla today, thicker lines seem to be related to the size of the driving car image. bigger image == thicker lines, smaller image == thinner lines. No relation to AP being on or off.


----------



## lance.bailey

barjohn said:


> If there is one bug that should have been stomped out by now, this has to be it. It makes TACC and NoAP almost unusable when you have passengers. First because of the abrupt behavior and second because of the fear of being rear ended.


I've been trying to compare apples to apples between my hybrid XC60 and the model 3. Two things about adaptive cruise control on the cars

the volvo has less false positives than the tesla. I don't know if this is because the Tesla is able to see more things, even things that aren't even there  or if it is erring on the side of safety (there *might* be something there so I will brake), erring more than the volvo. But the volvo is pretty cautious on a lot of things, so it is surprising that the tesla is more cautious
When the volvo does brake for adaptive cruise control the braking is more gentle. Even on the freeway, if someone pulls in front of me, the volvo gently slows down with a fairly straight line decelleration, whereas the telsa puts on the brakes harder and faster. So I can get a bit of a roller coaster effect with the tesla. Granted the volvo has air suspension so that may smooth things out, but even at slow speeds if the tesla thinks i'm going to encounter something the brakes are hard and certain while the volvo tends to be smoother in the braking.

I think that the extra braking, combined with harder faster braking is what makes the Tesla's phantom braking seem more so than in other rides.


----------



## DocScott

lance.bailey said:


> I've been trying to compare apples to apples between my hybrid XC60 and the model 3. Two things about adaptive cruise control on the cars
> 
> the volvo has less false positives than the tesla. I don't know if this is because the Tesla is able to see more things, even things that aren't even there  or if it is erring on the side of safety (there *might* be something there so I will brake), erring more than the volvo. But the volvo is pretty cautious on a lot of things, so it is surprising that the tesla is more cautious
> When the volvo does brake for adaptive cruise control the braking is more gentle. Even on the freeway, if someone pulls in front of me, the volvo gently slows down with a fairly straight line decelleration, whereas the telsa puts on the brakes harder and faster. So I can get a bit of a roller coaster effect with the tesla. Granted the volvo has air suspension so that may smooth things out, but even at slow speeds if the tesla thinks i'm going to encounter something the brakes are hard and certain while the volvo tends to be smoother in the braking.
> 
> I think that the extra braking, combined with harder faster braking is what makes the Tesla's phantom braking seem more so than in other rides.


Does the Volvo limit the circumstances under which TACC can be used? Tesla has barely any limitation. That could explain the higher rate of false positives and the sharper braking: Tesla might be thinking about surface streets, where, e.g., pedestrians or someone pulling out of a driveway are more likely to be a problem.


----------



## MelindaV

lance.bailey said:


> I've been trying to compare apples to apples between my hybrid XC60 and the model 3. Two things about adaptive cruise control on the cars
> 
> the volvo has less false positives than the tesla. I don't know if this is because the Tesla is able to see more things, even things that aren't even there  or if it is erring on the side of safety (there *might* be something there so I will brake), erring more than the volvo. But the volvo is pretty cautious on a lot of things, so it is surprising that the tesla is more cautious
> When the volvo does brake for adaptive cruise control the braking is more gentle. Even on the freeway, if someone pulls in front of me, the volvo gently slows down with a fairly straight line decelleration, whereas the telsa puts on the brakes harder and faster. So I can get a bit of a roller coaster effect with the tesla. Granted the volvo has air suspension so that may smooth things out, but even at slow speeds if the tesla thinks i'm going to encounter something the brakes are hard and certain while the volvo tends to be smoother in the braking.
> 
> I think that the extra braking, combined with harder faster braking is what makes the Tesla's phantom braking seem more so than in other rides.


on the freeway, what is propelling the Volvo? Does it use the electric drive on the freeway, or is it using the ICE engine on the freeway? that could be partly to explain the difference as well.


----------



## lance.bailey

DocScott said:


> Does the Volvo limit the circumstances under which TACC can be used? Tesla has barely any limitation. That could explain the higher rate of false positives and the sharper braking: Tesla might be thinking about surface streets, where, e.g., pedestrians or someone pulling out of a driveway are more likely to be a problem.


I don't think that the volvo limits where it's TACC can be used. I know that the "Pilot Assist" (aka "lane keep") can be limited and will turn itself off, but the TACC seems to be on until i brake or turn it off at the wheel controls.



MelindaV said:


> on the freeway, what is propelling the Volvo? Does it use the electric drive on the freeway, or is it using the ICE engine on the freeway? that could be partly to explain the difference as well.


The volvo can be running pure electric or ICE on the highway, I have done both although the limited range of the volvo has me locking the battery charge on my commute so I can save the electric for stop and go sections. There is no apparent difference to me on TACC and Pilot Assist between EV or ICE propulsion.


----------



## NJturtlePower

Two things...

Before version 2019.20.2.1 I had never experienced "Phantom Braking" and it's both scary and frustrating. I do not use AP much except maybe on the weekends and have not yet tried it again since coming to 20.4.2.

Anybody else on TeslaFi seeing irregular sleep/idle periods on his latest update?

It's only been two days now, but where my car would normally sleep as soon as I get to work and until I leave, it will now only sleep for about 1hr then wake, idle and repeat.


----------



## MelindaV

NJturtlePower said:


> Two things...
> 
> Before version 2019.20.2.1 I had never experienced "Phantom Braking" and it's both scary and frustrating. I do not use AP much except maybe on the weekends and have not yet tried it again since coming to 20.4.2.
> 
> Anybody else on TeslaFi seeing irregular sleep/idle periods on his latest update?
> 
> It's only been two days now, but where my car would normally sleep as soon as I get to work and until I leave, it will now only sleep for about 1hr then wake, idle and repeat.
> 
> View attachment 27207


the last week or so mine has been idle about 2 hrs 20 minutes before sleeping when I get home at night. clicking thru random days earlier in the month and various days back to the beginning of the year, they all area roughly the same - from just short of 2 hours to 2 1/2 hours.


----------



## Needsdecaf

My car seems to be having a bit of trouble sleeping, but not overly concerning. And no odd wakeups, not like that...


----------



## NJturtlePower

MelindaV said:


> the last week or so mine has been idle about 2 hrs 20 minutes before sleeping when I get home at night. clicking thru random days earlier in the month and various days back to the beginning of the year, they all area roughly the same - from just short of 2 hours to 2 1/2 hours.


Not me... here's my typical previous Friday prior to 20.4.2 sleeping like a baby during the day.

I know, I know my commute is rough!


----------



## MelindaV

NJturtlePower said:


> Not me... here's my typical previous Friday prior to 20.4.2 sleeping like a baby during the day.
> 
> I know, I know my commute is rough!
> 
> View attachment 27210


this last Tuesday, before I left home, it did something similar to your idle vs sleep... (but dont think I've ever seen it asleep within a minute of parking!)


----------



## MelindaV

ok - never mind - I woke it up that morning to check if there was the latest update, which shows installed at 5:26am - so that awake/sleep was entirely my fault


----------



## Ficheh

I did notice a change that no one seems to talk about. Previously the icon to get to the backup camera would open a rectangle on the bottom left of the screen with 6 icons. Now it opens a box that extends all the way across the bottom of the screen with 8 icons (see pic, hopefully I attached the correct pic).


----------



## GDN

Ficheh said:


> I did notice a change that no one seems to talk about. Previously the icon to get to the backup camera would open a rectangle on the bottom left of the screen with 6 icons. Now it opens a box that extends all the way across the bottom of the screen with 8 icons (see pic, hopefully I attached the correct pic).
> View attachment 27214


Not sure it was mentioned specifically in this thread, but it was noted in the .1 release just before this. Not everyone gets every release, so worth noting here. Previous Release.


----------



## MelindaV

Ficheh said:


> I did notice a change that no one seems to talk about. Previously the icon to get to the backup camera would open a rectangle on the bottom left of the screen with 6 icons. Now it opens a box that extends all the way across the bottom of the screen with 8 icons (see pic, hopefully I attached the correct pic).
> View attachment 27214


the backup camera current (and previously) is one of the static buttons that stays in the "card" area, next to the charge and the mic buttons. In your snapshot, it is just under where your 12.7 is shown. So no need to open the apps section.









(and @GDN - @garsh has a knack for finding every one of my typos. It really is pretty amazing  )


----------



## Bokonon

Has anyone else found Lane Departure Assist to be less sensitive (or intervene less often) in 20.x vs 16.x?

In 16.x, it would steer me back to center just about anytime I drifted over a shoulder line, even in some cases where I was applying light torque to the wheel as I crossed the line. On any well-marked road, I could pretty much trigger it at will. Under 20.4.2, I have yet to see it intervene. Granted, I've only had 20.4.2 since last weekend, but after trying unsuccessfully to get it to fire a few times today, I had to check my Autopilot settings to make sure I hadn't accidentally disabled it.


----------



## lancegoddard

Most of my driving is done on a rural two lane highway and I have given up using TACC when my wife is in the car with me. Yesterday when driving into town there is a 4.3 mile stretch before turning off the highway. I had 3 phantom braking events in light traffic that would have freaked her out had she been with me. My hope and unrealistic expectation had been that there was a learning process taking place - but I no longer believe that to be the case. Last time we were together on the interstate in light traffic I had a phantom braking event that alarmed her and she yelled and asked me what I was doing. She has been with me when the loud alarm has sounded when safely driving in the middle of the lane. It’s a good thing that I love driving this car.


----------



## Kizzy

lance.bailey said:


> got the Tesla today, thicker lines seem to be related to the size of the driving car image. bigger image == thicker lines, smaller image == thinner lines. No relation to AP being on or off.


What I'm noticing may not necessarily be thicker lines, just darker.

Here are side-by-side images of what I've been noticing.









On the left, an unmarked road, but the lane of travel is visualized. On the right, lane markings are clearly defined with the yellow divider and that change is reflected in the display.

After more observation, I'm thinking the darkness of the lines may represent confidence in lane detection.


----------



## MelindaV

Bokonon said:


> Has anyone else found Lane Departure Assist to be less sensitive (or intervene less often) in 20.x vs 16.x?
> 
> In 16.x, it would steer me back to center just about anytime I drifted over a shoulder line, even in some cases where I was applying light torque to the wheel as I crossed the line. On any well-marked road, I could pretty much trigger it at will. Under 20.4.2, I have yet to see it intervene. Granted, I've only had 20.4.2 since last weekend, but after trying unsuccessfully to get it to fire a few times today, I had to check my Autopilot settings to make sure I hadn't accidentally disabled it.


I Have mine set to warning, and get the rumble strip warnings often - apparently if not in AP, I can't stay in the center (or just in) the lane


----------



## Ksb466

Any chance NOA now sees blue emergency lights?. While on NOA in normal conditions, passing a police car parked on the shoulder flashing siren lights, my NOa disengaged and gave the orange wheel,saying take over immediately. I’ve almost never get that warning, and never on a highway in normal conditions. I reengaged and it did the same thing until about 30 seconds later when the flashing lights were well out of view, when it worked normal again.


----------



## MelindaV

Ksb466 said:


> Any chance NOA now sees blue emergency lights?. While on NOA in normal conditions, passing a police car parked on the shoulder flashing siren lights, my NOa disengaged and gave the orange wheel,saying take over immediately. I've almost never get that warning, and never on a highway in normal conditions. I reengaged and it did the same thing until about 30 seconds later when the flashing lights were well out of view, when it worked normal again.


I think it very likely was a coincidence.


----------



## Friedrich

lancegoddard said:


> Most of my driving is done on a rural two lane highway and I have given up using TACC when my wife is in the car with me. Yesterday when driving into town there is a 4.3 mile stretch before turning off the highway. I had 3 phantom braking events in light traffic that would have freaked her out had she been with me. My hope and unrealistic expectation had been that there was a learning process taking place - but I no longer believe that to be the case. Last time we were together on the interstate in light traffic I had a phantom braking event that alarmed her and she yelled and asked me what I was doing. She has been with me when the loud alarm has sounded when safely driving in the middle of the lane. It's a good thing that I love driving this car.


Actually, my feeling is that it does get better, all be it only with new updates. When I got my Model 3 with 2019.8.5, TACC was virtually unusable on Austrian backroads due to nearly constant phantom brakings (and highways weren't much better either). Now that I am on 2019.20.4.2, it panics very rarely. It gets scared when a big truck is going the opposite direction on a narrow road allthough there is enough space for the both of us. I do get the occaional unexplainable braking when nothing is around, and in tunnels it scares easy, too. 
I'm still not very comfortable using TACC in heavy traffic without hovering my foot over the accelerator to avoid getting rearended due to a car panic attack...


----------



## lance.bailey

Kizzy said:


> What I'm noticing may not necessarily be thicker lines, just darker.
> 
> ...
> 
> On the left, an unmarked road, but the lane of travel is visualized. On the right, lane markings are clearly defined with the yellow divider and that change is reflected in the display.


I'm talking about the curved proximity lines. I have seen the one you are talking about and I agree it is likely confidence.


----------



## lance.bailey

hey @Ficheh, welcome to here.

Yep, that is the new App Panel look.

I notice that your "Ahoy hoy" icon says "call"


----------



## suprteck

anyone notice the annoying beep alert on autopilot i swore it didnt use to do that until you didnt acknowledge the first time


----------



## Kizzy

suprteck said:


> anyone notice the annoying beep alert on autopilot i swore it didnt use to do that until you didnt acknowledge the first time


Yes. There have been some spots (primarily merging lanes) when Autopilot wants to make sure my hands are immediately on the wheel. I feel that with these latest updates it has been doing this just a tad more frequently.


----------



## GDN

lance.bailey said:


> hey @Ficheh, welcome to here.
> 
> Yep, that is the new App Panel look.
> 
> I notice that your "Ahoy hoy" icon says "call"


You can also make yours say "Call" - just press and hold, it changes back and forth.


----------



## lance.bailey

i know - i was being a smart @ss. i switch ours back and forth to confuse my wife.


----------



## pdp1

This happened to me twice since I updated to this firmware. When I have a door ajar, not completely open, just not shut completely, I get a red circle with exclamation icon, but the car graphic does not show which door is ajar like it should. Perhaps this happened, or would have happened, with previous firmwares but I just didn’t notice.


----------



## 2pix

During this update I noticed my headlights were on and moving slightly. Did anyone else notice that? It seems my lights were recalibrated during this update. Night driving was a bit easier I could tell they were pointed in better spots. Auto high beams are not as necessary now. Great feature but the brightness is sometimes dazing off reflective signs.


----------



## GDN

2pix said:


> During this update I noticed my headlights were on and moving slightly. Did anyone else notice that? It seems my lights were recalibrated during this update. Night driving was a bit easier I could tell they were pointed in better spots. Auto high beams are not as necessary now. Great feature but the brightness is sometimes dazing off reflective signs.


This is an interesting observation. I have not noticed the same, but it is interesting that they would attempt to recalibrate without being able to see where they were aiming the light.

Did this happen the first time you drove after the SW update or a few days after? You've never tried to calibrate them yourself?


----------



## MelindaV

also didn't notice this, and with the lights shining on the garage wall when I get in, I'd think it would be noticeable if they had moved.


----------



## 2pix

MelindaV said:


> also didn't notice this, and with the lights shining on the garage wall when I get in, I'd think it would be noticeable if they had moved.


I haven't tried to calibrate the lights myself. I noticed right after the update however, it was easier to see. They could calibrate headlights based off of the front facing camera I would think. Plus I would assume Tesla would adjust the lights for autopilot in night situations not my viewability. I just betnifit as well. My 3 is exactly a year old now maybe newer VINs are already set that way.


----------



## M3OC Rules

lance.bailey said:


> I've been trying to compare apples to apples between my hybrid XC60 and the model 3. Two things about adaptive cruise control on the cars
> 
> the volvo has less false positives than the tesla. I don't know if this is because the Tesla is able to see more things, even things that aren't even there  or if it is erring on the side of safety (there *might* be something there so I will brake), erring more than the volvo. But the volvo is pretty cautious on a lot of things, so it is surprising that the tesla is more cautious
> When the volvo does brake for adaptive cruise control the braking is more gentle. Even on the freeway, if someone pulls in front of me, the volvo gently slows down with a fairly straight line decelleration, whereas the telsa puts on the brakes harder and faster. So I can get a bit of a roller coaster effect with the tesla. Granted the volvo has air suspension so that may smooth things out, but even at slow speeds if the tesla thinks i'm going to encounter something the brakes are hard and certain while the volvo tends to be smoother in the braking.
> 
> I think that the extra braking, combined with harder faster braking is what makes the Tesla's phantom braking seem more so than in other rides.


Thanks for the great comparison. 
#1 is hard to know because we know so little on why it's phantom braking, what the safety actually is, and the scope of what the two are sensing.
#2 This seems like its just a matter of priorities. Tesla seems focused on being "feature complete" more so that optimizing current features. I don't think we should give them the benefit of the doubt that they can't do better especially with the braking and acceleration. Tesla may be under-appreciating the poor user experience situation here and its impacts.

I agree with your last point as well that the extra braking may make the phantom braking worse although we don't know if it sees something 10ft in front or 100ft when it phantom brakes.


----------



## Jay79

I just had a horrible episode of phantom breaking today on my way into the Tint Shop. It was out of no where on the highway and just nailed the breaks, if someone was following me closely it would have been a very bad day. 

I feel like they are hyper focused on version 3 autopilot and see this as a problem that will be phased out once version 3 is in full swing. The question is how long until those of us with FSD get the HW3 computer and how long before it is as good or better than our current version? I still don't have my spoiler :tearsofjoy:


----------



## DocScott

Jay79 said:


> I just had a horrible episode of phantom breaking today on my way into the Tint Shop. It was out of no where on the highway and just nailed the breaks, if someone was following me closely it would have been a very bad day.
> 
> I feel like they are hyper focused on version 3 autopilot and see this as a problem that will be phased out once version 3 is in full swing. The question is how long until those of us with FSD get the HW3 computer and how long before it is as good or better than our current version? I still don't have my spoiler :tearsofjoy:


I know I'm in the minority on this, but I expect that eventually they'll provide the FSD chip free of charge to _everyone_, even if they didn't purchase FSD. If regular AP needs the FSD chip to perform safely, then it will be seen as a necessary safety upgrade. Notice that's not the same as providing FSD _features_ (NOA, ES, etc.).

Doing that would be another poke in the eye to people who paid for FSD before any FSD features existed, but that hasn't stopped Tesla in the past.


----------



## M3OC Rules

Jay79 said:


> I feel like they are hyper focused on version 3 autopilot and see this as a problem that will be phased out once version 3 is in full swing. The question is how long until those of us with FSD get the HW3 computer and how long before it is as good or better than our current version?


I agree with the focus being FSD but unless they plan to upgrade everyone to HW3 it's going to continue to be a problem. I think this is more of a software problem and not a limitation of HW2.5.


----------



## ChiTesla

Needsdecaf said:


> My car seems to be having a bit of trouble sleeping, but not overly concerning. And no odd wakeups, not like that...


My car has not slept since several software updates ago.


----------



## MelindaV

ChiTesla said:


> My car has not slept since several software updates ago.


where all do you have Sentry enabled?


----------



## ChiTesla

MelindaV said:


> where all do you have Sentry enabled?


I do not have it enabled automatically. I do use it occasionally but generally only a few times per week.


----------



## MelindaV

ChiTesla said:


> I do not have it enabled automatically. I do use it occasionally but generally only a few times per week.


and what are you using to see that it is not sleeping?


----------



## ChiTesla

MelindaV said:


> and what are you using to see that it is not sleeping?


TeslaFi


----------



## NR4P

ChiTesla said:


> My car has not slept since several software updates ago.


Do you use Sentry?

Turn off Sentry, remove USB plug.

SC told me to do that and car sleeps now.

But it is a PIA since I want Sentry on when not at home.


----------



## M3OC Rules

DocScott said:


> I know I'm in the minority on this, but I expect that eventually they'll provide the FSD chip free of charge to _everyone_, even if they didn't purchase FSD. If regular AP needs the FSD chip to perform safely, then it will be seen as a necessary safety upgrade. Notice that's not the same as providing FSD _features_ (NOA, ES, etc.).
> 
> Doing that would be another poke in the eye to people who paid for FSD before any FSD features existed, but that hasn't stopped Tesla in the past.


That could be but I don't think it would be for safety reasons. I think it will only happen if they think the software development costs of continuing development on HW2.5/HW2 and HW3 exceeds the cost of upgrading people. The cost would likely be in the $100's of Millions which would pay for a lot of developers. Tesla already thinks AP is safer than a human driver without it. They did say they would offer paid upgrades to people without FSD in the future but it's not clear what the benefit would be. If they said it was for improved safety I would think that might open them up to more liability. You never know what creative things Tesla will come up with though.


----------



## ChiTesla

NR4P said:


> Do you use Sentry?
> 
> Turn off Sentry, remove USB plug.
> 
> SC told me to do that and car sleeps now.
> 
> But it is a PIA since I want Sentry on when not at home.


I don't have sentry automatically enabled but I just remembered that I do have cabin overheat protection on. I turned it off to see if that changes the ability to sleep.

I use a USB splitter for my charging pad as well as my SD card and would hate to have to remove either regularly.


----------



## JeopardE

Klaus-rf said:


> Since installing 20.4.2 (installed 20.4.1 but did not drive car with that version) AP left lane changes fail ~80% of the time while right lane changes work 100%. Blinker stays on forever (until I cancel it or cancel AP) while the car does not attempt to change lanes.


So maybe it isn't just me then. For a couple of weeks now on certain roads AP fails to recognize the lane on the left most of the time, only the lanes on the right. I drive frequently on South Highway 6 in Houston/Sugar Land, on the concrete part in Sugar Land left lane recognition is fine, and then it gets to the asphalt covered part around the airport and then the left lane disappears. Every time. I've been wondering if something went bad with one of my cameras, even cleaned them at one point. But I'm pretty confident it started after a recent software update.


----------



## GDN

Anyone noticed stronger regen with this release? Specifically on the AWD. The first two days I dismissed it, but after a few days I'm 99% sure I feel a bit more regen with this latest release on the AWD.


----------



## HCD3

GDN said:


> Anyone noticed stronger regen with this release? Specifically on the AWD. The first two days I dismissed it, but after a few days I'm 99% sure I feel a bit more regen with this latest release on the AWD.


Yup GDN Me too. My one pedal driving is great.


----------



## FRC

GDN said:


> Anyone noticed stronger regen with this release? Specifically on the AWD. The first two days I dismissed it, but after a few days I'm 99% sure I feel a bit more regen with this latest release on the AWD.


Funny...I thought I was feeling less regen.


----------



## GDN

FRC said:


> Funny...I thought I was feeling less regen.


Well thanks for giving your regen to me! I guess I know where mine came from.

And while mine may not have changed, you do have a Performance, so perhaps they have different tweaks for each of us. Or maybe nothing hanged at all and I'm crazy, but no one needs to like this post to say that is the case.


----------



## undergrove

Klaus-rf said:


> Since installing 20.4.2 (installed 20.4.1 but did not drive car with that version) AP left lane changes fail ~80% of the time while right lane changes work 100%. Blinker stays on forever (until I cancel it or cancel AP) while the car does not attempt to change lanes.


For us left lane changes no longer work at all on a 4 lane road with a center turning lane. After putting the turn blinker on a message appears saying "Auto Lane Change not available." Changes from the left lane to the right do work.

Changes in either direction still work on a divided highway. This seems to have started sometime with v20.

The question is: Is this a bug or an intentional change? Autopilot is still really only intended for divided highways, but I still feel safer having Autopilot double check me when I make a lane change on our undivided 4 lane highway.


----------



## sduck

2pix said:


> It seems my lights were recalibrated during this update.


I would highly doubt that's what happened. While it could be possible to do this, in a controlled environment, there's no way the cameras/software could compensate for the myriads of variabilities in our various garages/parking spots to do this with any kind of accuracy or reliability. What I would suspect happened, was just a slight wiggling of the motors that affect the headlight positioning, but no actual change.


----------



## sduck

ChiTesla said:


> TeslaFi


Make sure you've set up the settings in Settings: Sleep Modes correctly (you probably already know this, but just in case...) (these are what work for me)


----------



## ChiTesla

sduck said:


> Make sure you've set up the settings in Settings: Sleep Modes correctly (you probably already know this, but just in case...) (these are what work for me)


Thanks sduck. I tried similar settings in TeslaFi and will see if that works.


----------



## Kizzy

FRC said:


> Funny...I thought I was feeling less regen.


Earlier today, I thought I'd lost all regen (on a completely warm battery)! Fun fact (if you don't already know), regen doesn't work when the car is in reverse (at least going forward-I haven't tested going in reverse fast enough for regen to even be a possibility).

Regen has been good to me lately on the high deceleration from highway speed to right turn speed. I can't speak to whether it has changed due to software or battery temperature.


----------



## ChiTesla

sduck said:


> Make sure you've set up the settings in Settings: Sleep Modes correctly (you probably already know this, but just in case...) (these are what work for me)


Thanks Again! My car slept for the first time in months! I was a little leery about using Tesla Fi to force it to sleep. I was hoping that it would eventually properly sleep after a software update but now I have much less battery drain when parked and it seems like the topped-off charging from 89% to 90% overnight will also be eliminated.


----------



## slotti

Since this update my NOA cannot make the transition from I405 south to I10 east anymore. just before the split, it pulls left onto 405 and I have to intervene. Was working perfectly fine before.


----------



## fazluke

2pix said:


> I haven't tried to calibrate the lights myself. I noticed right after the update however, it was easier to see. They could calibrate headlights based off of the front facing camera I would think. Plus I would assume Tesla would adjust the lights for autopilot in night situations not my viewability. I just betnifit as well. My 3 is exactly a year old now maybe newer VINs are already set that way.


Headlights follow your wheels position now, or at least that is how it shows on mine


----------



## GDN

fazluke said:


> Headlights follow your wheels position now, or at least that is how it shows on mine


How it shows on your what? On the screen? On the ground in front of the car when you turn your wheels? You should show us a video of that.


----------



## Hugh_Jassol

ChiTesla said:


> Thanks Again! My car slept for the first time in months! I was a little leery about using Tesla Fi to force it to sleep. I was hoping that it would eventually properly sleep after a software update but now I have much less battery drain when parked and it seems like the topped-off charging from 89% to 90% overnight will also be eliminated.


TeslaFi does not "force" it to sleep. All the sleeps settings in TeslaFi do is have it stop polling your car for information for a period of time long enough that your car will sleep on its own. If TeslaFi kept polling constantly, your car will not sleep.

So in other words, TeslaFi is polling your car every 1 min.... If it keeps doing that, your car will never sleep. So, when TeslaFi notices your car has been idle for a certain amount of time (30 min per the settings @sduck has in his post above), it stops polling for 15 min... then starts polling again every 1 min. During that 15 min break, your car will most likely fall asleep. If it does, then when teslafi starts polling again, it will see your car as asleep and not "wake" it. If the car didn't fall asleep, after 30 more min of idle, it will then pause another 15 min. This will repeat until your car sleeps. Almost always, your car will sleep during the first or second "break"

There is no command to tell the car to sleep.


----------



## sduck

fazluke said:


> Headlights follow your wheels position now, or at least that is how it shows on mine


I highly doubt this is the case. First, I don't think US auto regulations allow this, although that may have changed. And second, I would think Tesla would have made a big deal about this, and other users would have noticed right away. I'm not seeing this happen with my lights.


----------



## Bokonon

Bokonon said:


> Has anyone else found Lane Departure Assist to be less sensitive (or intervene less often) in 20.x vs 16.x?
> Under 20.4.2, I have yet to see it intervene.


I experienced LDA under 20.4.2 for the first time today, at the end of a two-lane merge onto the interstate where the right lane "shrank" into the left lane, near the bottom-right corner of this image:










I was going about 50 mph at the time, and must have started to drift over the solid white line as I glanced over my left shoulder to check the next two lanes (i.e., the "can I gun it here?" check  ). As I did this, I felt LDA gently tug the wheel to the left, and center me in what it now perceived to be a single, wide lane. No alarms or warnings.

I still haven't gotten it to fire on the same well-marked, local roads where it used to kick in every time. I wonder if they've made it less sensitive at lower speeds?


----------



## fazluke

sduck said:


> I highly doubt this is the case. First, I don't think US auto regulations allow this, although that may have changed. And second, I would think Tesla would have made a big deal about this, and other users would have noticed right away. I'm not seeing this happen with my lights.


My bad. I mean the car icon on the screen. Just turn the wheels while car is in the garage and watch teh headlights movements.


----------



## francoisp

Kizzy said:


> Earlier today, I thought I'd lost all regen (on a completely warm battery)! Fun fact (if you don't already know), regen doesn't work when the car is in reverse (at least going forward-I haven't tested going in reverse fast enough for regen to even be a possibility).
> 
> Regen has been good to me lately on the high deceleration from highway speed to right turn speed. I can't speak to whether it has changed due to software or battery temperature.


Also, regen may be weaker and even non-existent when the battery is closed to being fully charged. Another reason not to charge to 100% unless going on a trip.


----------



## JWardell

Ze1000 said:


> I don't think the color proximity indicator was there before.
> It was when parking, but not when driving.
> I even felt the steering wheel move a couple of times (when autosteer was on) to add some distance to the close object/curb.
> View attachment 27109
> View attachment 27110


I also just noticed the color proximity lines for the first time yesterday, just after updating to 20.4.x. I never noticed them before including with 20.2.x. They were there when driving 30-40mph. I noticed they were grey when on the highway in autopilot. I will try to pay closer attention to understand under which conditions they are grey or colored, but I agree something changed here.


----------



## FRC

I think the color only applies to stationary objects, and perhaps only up to a certain speed?


----------



## MelindaV

i was thinking grey outside a set distance, then color closer in. my freeway home includes a narrow bridge where the lanes are significantly narrower than the rest of the freeway, and have seen the colors there.


----------



## aronth5

NoA became unavailable on a newly paved highway with the temporary smaller white lines. As soon as the new paving ended NoA became available. I've never seen that with any version before.


----------



## lance.bailey

fazluke said:


> Headlights follow your wheels position now, or at least that is how it shows on mine





sduck said:


> I highly doubt this is the case. First, I don't think US auto regulations allow this, although that may have changed. And second, I would think Tesla would have made a big deal about this, and other users would have noticed right away. I'm not seeing this happen with my lights.


Headlights that move with your steering (ie: turn to point where you are going) have been around for many years, my 2018 XC60 has them and they were an option for my 2004 V70

Unless I misunderstood what is being said here.


----------



## Ze1000

JWardell said:


> I also just noticed the color proximity lines for the first time yesterday, just after updating to 20.4.x. I never noticed them before including with 20.2.x. They were there when driving 30-40mph. I noticed they were grey when on the highway in autopilot. I will try to pay closer attention to understand under which conditions they are grey or colored, but I agree something changed here.


Thank you! I thought I had lost my power of observation. I know it starts to get colored when you get closer to an object. The other day I was in a highway at 50 mph when a car got close during a curve, it went from light gray all way up to red. 
What I don't know is when this has changed ... It makes sense if it was changed when the new visualization mode came along.


----------



## Shadow LI

Anyone else having connectivity issues with this update? Very rare I can connect from app, even when on WiFi. Not sure if this is linked to the LTE connectivity delays or it’s just me.


----------



## M3OC Rules

Shadow LI said:


> Anyone else having connectivity issues with this update? Very rare I can connect from app, even when on WiFi. Not sure if this is linked to the LTE connectivity delays or it's just me.


Past two days I've had LTE not connect after leaving the garage where there is no WIFI or LTE. Rebooted while driving and it connected to LTE both times.


----------



## Shadow LI

M3OC Rules said:


> Past two days I've had LTE not connect after leaving the garage where there is no WIFI or LTE. Rebooted while driving and it connected to LTE both times.


Yes same here. Happens daily now. But along with that my app barely connects remotely now.


----------



## sduck

lance.bailey said:


> Headlights that move with your steering (ie: turn to point where you are going) have been around for many years, my 2018 XC60 has them and they were an option for my 2004 V70
> 
> Unless I misunderstood what is being said here.


Yes, it's not new technology. I think Citroen had the first version that worked, but it may have predated that. But unless the rules have changed, it's not allowed in the US, at least on domestically made vehicles.


----------



## SalisburySam

sduck said:


> Yes, it's not new technology. I think Citroen had the first version that worked, but it may have predated that. But unless the rules have changed, it's not allowed in the US, at least on domestically made vehicles.


Tucker had this as well, though I don't remember if was for all 3 headlights.


----------



## TrevP

Not much on my end. Beach Buggy 2 is MIA given I don't have the new Intel-based MCU in my Model X. That went into production about 4 months after I got my car.


----------



## rpreuss

lancegoddard said:


> Most of my driving is done on a rural two lane highway and I have given up using TACC when my wife is in the car with me. Yesterday when driving into town there is a 4.3 mile stretch before turning off the highway. I had 3 phantom braking events in light traffic that would have freaked her out had she been with me. My hope and unrealistic expectation had been that there was a learning process taking place - but I no longer believe that to be the case. Last time we were together on the interstate in light traffic I had a phantom braking event that alarmed her and she yelled and asked me what I was doing. She has been with me when the loud alarm has sounded when safely driving in the middle of the lane. It's a good thing that I love driving this car.


I get the same reaction from my wife. Driving with TACC on at 70mph with no traffic in front or in back, and suddenly the car brakes quite aggressively. With the loud alarm and sudden deceleration, she is really freaking out. For this reason, I will not use it unless alone in the car AND I will not use it if there is anyone behind me. Too risky. My Fusion Energi had a version of TACC that did not exhibit any of this. I'm not sure how it sensed the distance of the car in front, but I think it was just using the camera and the change in the size of the image. I don't think they had forward radar.


----------



## evannole

sduck said:


> Yes, it's not new technology. I think Citroen had the first version that worked, but it may have predated that. But unless the rules have changed, it's not allowed in the US, at least on domestically made vehicles.


My wife's Volvo XC60 has headlights that turn with the steering wheel. It's quite useful. We are in metro Atlanta and purchased the car in South Carolina. So it's definitely permitted here.


----------



## MelindaV

Ze1000 said:


> Thank you! I thought I had lost my power of observation. I know it starts to get colored when you get closer to an object. The other day I was in a highway at 50 mph when a car got close during a curve, it went from light gray all way up to red.
> What I don't know is when this has changed ... It makes sense if it was changed when the new visualization mode came along.


that is the lane departure warning you are seeing, not the ultrasonic arches.


----------



## Ze1000

MelindaV said:


> that is the lane departure warning you are seeing, not the ultrasonic arches.


Definitely the ultrasonic arches. Like it was always there, but now with color.


----------



## garsh

SalisburySam said:


> Tucker had this as well, though I don't remember if was for all 3 headlights.


Only the center headlight turned on a Tucker.


----------



## dburkland

So I confirmed today my issues with NoAP which started in the 2019.20.1 release (where it was making constant back & forth lane changes, missing exits, etc) only occur when I navigate to one of my favorites. As soon as I manually enter an address or search for a nearby destination I have 0 issues with NoAP. I recorded some GoPro footage that I will upload later to show it failing & working as planned using my “workaround”.


----------



## Needsdecaf

sduck said:


> Yes, it's not new technology. I think Citroen had the first version that worked, but it may have predated that. But unless the rules have changed, it's not allowed in the US, at least on domestically made vehicles.


It is allowed, domestic vehicle or imported, and has been for some time.

What is not allowed, is certain level of "beam shaping" which is now being done with multi-element LED (and laser) lights. BMW, Audi, Mercedes and others have lights where the pattern is made up of dozens of LED's. Mercedes uses 84 and I think they have a new one with 102. They are able to individually turn on and off the LED's to create "holes" in the full light pattern to run high beams but create a cone of "low beam" where oncoming traffic would be, or to avoid too much reflection off an overhead sign. Quite trick technology but sadly not allowed in the US yet, because you know, NHTSA knows what's best! 



evannole said:


> My wife's Volvo XC60 has headlights that turn with the steering wheel. It's quite useful. We are in metro Atlanta and purchased the car in South Carolina. So it's definitely permitted here.


Yup, I've had them since 2011 on a BMW I owned. On my 2017 GTI, I could select how aggressively I wanted the lights to turn, which was quite cool.


----------



## barjohn

A friend of mine's 2018 Model S on the latest software (this one) has had issues with the backup camera for a number of releases. In the prior releases, she had to reboot to get the backup camera to work (it would stay black) but with this version of the firmware it does come up but now will suddenly start flickering with a pink band at the bottom. See the attached video. Does anyone else have this problem and if so how did you get it resolved? (Don't see a way to post MOV clips here so link to a dropbox folder with the clip)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jn6a2ld7chg5jc9/IMG_0162.mov?dl=0


----------



## WMB

Vin said:


> Is anyone else still getting those "dancing cars" when stopped at a light? It's not a huge deal but every car shown on the display is basically moving and spinning/dancing.





Vin said:


> Is anyone else still getting those "dancing cars" when stopped at a light? It's not a huge deal but every car shown on the display is basically moving and spinning/dancing.


I now have 2019.20.4.2 in my Model 3, and I still have the dancing/spinning cars when stopped. I presume the display is showing what my car "thinks" the other cars are actually doing around it. This causes me sincere doubt about the jump to FSD if Tesla cannot even get what cars that are not moving are actually doing. Oddly, the dancing/spinning is most pronounced when the car is stopped; the dancing/spinning is much less when the car is in motion.


----------



## DocScott

WMB said:


> I now have 2019.20.4.2 in my Model 3, and I still have the dancing/spinning cars when stopped. I presume the display is showing what my car "thinks" the other cars are actually doing around it. This causes me sincere doubt about the jump to FSD if Tesla cannot even get what cars that are not moving are actually doing. Oddly, the dancing/spinning is most pronounced when the car is stopped; the dancing/spinning is much less when the car is in motion.


It makes sense that it's easier to figure out which way a car is pointing when it's moving, because the movement of the car itself is a huge clue (most of the time; it's moving in the direction it's pointing).

I'm not sure to what extent the core of the driver assist/self-driving software even knows or cares which side of a car is which; it mainly needs to know where the car is and where it's going. Only in somewhat unusual "corner cases" does it matter which side of a car is facing you.

So I'd guess the internal representation of the cars at a stop is "stationary car." There's then some extra piece of software which is trying to present that in a pleasing and easy-to-interpret form on the display. That's the part that is having trouble, but I'm not sure that's all that relevant to FSD.


----------



## dburkland

dburkland said:


> So I confirmed today my issues with NoAP which started in the 2019.20.1 release (where it was making constant back & forth lane changes, missing exits, etc) only occur when I navigate to one of my favorites. As soon as I manually enter an address or search for a nearby destination I have 0 issues with NoAP. I recorded some GoPro footage that I will upload later to show it failing & working as planned using my "workaround".


As promised I put together a little video (apologies for the poor editing chops, first time Final Cut Pro user here) showing the issues I mentioned above along with the workaround I discovered Thursday afternoon. I will be submitting this as a bug to Tesla and including my local service center who told me to do so they can help route internally.

Cheers,

Dan


----------



## francoisp

Needsdecaf said:


> Quite trick technology but sadly not allowed in the US yet, because you know, NHTSA knows what's best!


Some people criticize the government for reviewing stuff for safety and some people criticize the government for having allowed the release of unsafe stuff without formal review. I'd rather err on the safe side.


----------



## barjohn

I thought you might get a chuckle out of this. I pulled into a parking spot at the drug store and I was shocked to see that a big truck was directly in front of me. See attached photos: (Maybe why we have phantom braking)


----------



## Rick Steinwand

I have a big truck (the door) in front of me when I'm inline at the car wash. Often have a lone person or motorcycle in front or behind me, when the door opens too.


----------



## Mesprit87

The big truck comes with the silver option


----------



## barjohn

My question is how is the camera interpreting a bunch of flower pots as a large truck? I suspect this is because it is relying on the radar rather than just doing image processing. If it is only doing image processing, the NN has a long way to go.


----------



## GDN

I'm guessing radar, my garage door is also a a truck, picture posted by @garsh the other day as well. It knows something big is in front of you.


----------



## barjohn

Yes, that is why they need to improve the visual capability. I suspect this is the cause of so many phantom braking events.


----------



## undergrove

WMB said:


> I now have 2019.20.4.2 in my Model 3, and I still have the dancing/spinning cars when stopped. I presume the display is showing what my car "thinks" the other cars are actually doing around it. This causes me sincere doubt about the jump to FSD if Tesla cannot even get what cars that are not moving are actually doing. Oddly, the dancing/spinning is most pronounced when the car is stopped; the dancing/spinning is much less when the car is in motion.


For us the dancing got continually better until orientation tracking was added then it got considerably worse again. But recent versions have gotten better. In 20.4.2 it tends to follow a consistent pattern. When everyone is stopped, there is still a certain amount of jitter, but iff we are stopped and cars are going by, the icons are pretty steady until they get a certain distance away, and then start spinning. Presumably the resolution of the visual or radar image is not good enough to track orientation at that point. The FW3 will allow much higher resolution and frame rates, which should solve this, if they don't manage to do it with FW2.5.


----------



## FRC

barjohn said:


> My question is how is the camera interpreting a bunch of flower pots as a large truck? I suspect this is because it is relying on the radar rather than just doing image processing. If it is only doing image processing, the NN has a long way to go.


Would you expect it to show a bunch of flower pots?


----------



## Mike

barjohn said:


> I thought you might get a chuckle out of this. I pulled into a parking spot at the drug store and I was shocked to see that a big truck was directly in front of me. See attached photos: (Maybe why we have phantom braking)
> 
> View attachment 27434
> View attachment 27435


Same thing every time I approach my garage door.


----------



## airbusav8r

It’s basic polygon detection; they have coordinates for various vehicles. That entire wall is most likely around the same size of a truck. Keep in mind the visuals are just fun, the AP relies on radar as primary, OCR (image) as secondary so you don’t play bumper cars on the road. Ever notice the camera will show cars floating on highway in lanes; yet the Tesla will still drive? That is the radar, the cameras primary intent at this time is seeing lanes, and cars to your side when auto lane changing.

The cars dance on the display because when stationary the MCU is trying to determine what type of vehicle. When moving the car easily can determine what is the front (it knows based on the lanes and motion). I would assume in an update they will simply have the car display vehicles in your last know direction prior to stopping. It’s actually a pretty difficult challenge and probably not a high priority as it’s simply eye candy. I somewhat wish they would just disable the cars when stationary until fixed and only show humans/motorcycles/bikes as that is helpful. I can see the car next to me.


----------



## kuzzy

dburkland said:


> As promised I put together a little video (apologies for the poor editing chops, first time Final Cut Pro user here) showing the issues I mentioned above along with the workaround I discovered Thursday afternoon. I will be submitting this as a bug to Tesla and including my local service center who told me to do so they can help route internally.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Dan


Did you try and delete the locations and then add them back as favorites again? I noticed on the 2nd trip that the nav system had you returning(?) on what looks like the opposite side of the highway. The coordinates of your favorites might have been corrupted during an update, I would see what happens if you reenter the locations if you have not already tried that.


----------



## gryghst72

I have not seen any Classic Tesla posts about the update:

Just updated to 4.2 on a Classic Sig P85. Besides the new quick menu buttons and phone app receiving Climate On/Dog Mode warnings, the Release Notes (in tiny print) mention minor improvements and bug fixes. Since my No AP car cannot use any of the AP updates or any of the new game updates (may even apply to AP 1.0 cars), why was it so important the classics get updated at all? We should be made aware of the improvements that were implemented. If there were Battery Mgmt or other generic improvements that benefit all cars, let us know, how hard is that?

I would also prefer the update process let me see the next version's release notes before being downloaded. I'm in the aviation software engineering business and we have to divulge every bug fix and improvement to the government and the customer. When people's lives are stake, I see no reason the government should not require Tesla to do the same. It would most certainly help speed up the regulatory hurdle they have to overcome for Level 4/5 autonomy. And I call BS on IP and Proprietary Info when the wording could be at such a high level as to not give away the algorithms or the logic used.


----------



## tivoboy

Does anyone else have the issue where Sentry mode is engaged at locations where you have said NOT to engage.. like the HOME location? I just realized it was on SENTRY today at home, maybe why it was draining faster than usual.


----------



## garsh

tivoboy said:


> Does anyone else have the issue where Sentry mode is engaged at locations where you have said NOT to engage.. like the HOME location? I just realized it was on SENTRY today at home, maybe why it was draining faster than usual.


I've had this happen when my battery was below 20%. It would say "Sentry mode deactivated due to battery under 20%". Then while charging, once the battery goes above 20%, sentry mode will activate. But if battery is above 20% to begin with, then sentry mode remains off for me. Strange bug.

EDIT - yep, just happened again this morning. Battery was at 19% when I arrived at work and plugged in. I noticed a notification on the Tesla app that Sentry mode was deactivated (even though it always should be at work). When I opened the app, it had charged to 21%, and showed Sentry Mode as being active.


----------



## Rick Steinwand

I had a lovely experience with 20.4.2 the other day... Picked up my 85 y.o. mother from the hospital. She had trouble with high blood pressure after they changed her BP meds after being hospitalized for an irregular heart beat. (So two hospital visits, each a couple days and 5 days apart.) So she finally was going to get home in style and I was driving.

It had just finished raining and while on Interstate, I stupidly decided to show her what a Tesla can do. (She drives a '98 Buick and has a flip phone.) So turned on NoAp while in the left lane. In a fashion similar to _"Hey you all, watch this, hold my beer",_ I announced, _"now watch it change lanes"_ and sure enough, it signaled it's intent, then while half-way into the right lane, it panicked (maybe because the center of the road was wet?) and quickly moved back into the left lane. Then two seconds later it tried again and again failed. So poor Mom, recently cleared of having a heart attack, was about to have her first with me behind the wheel. Not to be outdone, later with just AP active, I stupidly decided to undo my seatbelt to get a pill out of my pocket and alarms went off (Take over immediately) and it wouldn't quit until I turned off AP. Needless to say, I was about to hang it up and let everyone walk home.


----------



## dburkland

kuzzy said:


> Did you try and delete the locations and then add them back as favorites again? I noticed on the 2nd trip that the nav system had you returning(?) on what looks like the opposite side of the highway. The coordinates of your favorites might have been corrupted during an update, I would see what happens if you reenter the locations if you have not already tried that.


I just sent an email over to Tesla and the local service center (they said they'd route internally to the AP team) however now that my car as 20.4.4 I am going to try to reproduce the issue again (before deleting the favorites). Once I hear back from Tesla I will mention that to them to see if that'll fix the issue (would make sense if something got corrupted as you say).


----------



## Klaus-rf

Klaus-rf said:


> I tried AP today on un-lined residential roads and it successfully (although appearing a bit unsure of itself) successfully managed the winding road without incident.


 Some videos of wide, unmarked residential roads with AP engaged.


----------



## sduck

Seems like not the ideal place to be using autopilot. Is there some reason you can't drive it yourself on roads like this?


----------



## garsh

sduck said:


> Seems like not the ideal place to be using autopilot. Is there some reason you can't drive it yourself on roads like this?


Some people like to test it out in unsupported conditions.
As long as people realize it's not supported, that they'll be responsible for any accidents that occur, and are ready to take over if it makes a catastrophically wrong decision, then have fun.


----------



## DocScott

sduck said:


> Seems like not the ideal place to be using autopilot. Is there some reason you can't drive it yourself on roads like this?


We could also drive ourselves on divided limit-access highways, so that aspect doesn't seem terribly relevant.

In terms of safety, I'd feel perfectly comfortable experimenting with AP on the roads shown. At 25 mph, I'm not worried about it steering me in to a parked car faster than I can override it. There's little to no oncoming traffic, and no one driving close behind. There certainly is a risk of a pedestrian or animal darting out in to the street, but I could hit the brakes just as fast on AP as I could if I was driving.

No, AP isn't gaining you much in terms of convenience in that kind of situation at this point. But I do like to experiment in safe unsupported cases like this, because it helps me understand its behavior in more dangerous but more useful circumstances (e.g. construction zones with moderate traffic).


----------



## Klaus-rf

garsh said:


> Some people like to test it out in unsupported conditions.
> As long as people realize it's not supported, that they'll be responsible for any accidents that occur, and are ready to take over if it makes a catastrophically wrong decision, then have fun.


 Since AP has never been out of ßeta, it's *always* the drivers' responsibility to maintain safety of the vehicle, No? While it's still ßeta-ware on highways (everywhere) too.

The above "test" shows that AP does NOT need painted lines to determine where its going to position the car. It appears to measure a distance reference off the hard curb on the right. And when that curb goes away (end of first video), it gives up or [appears to] panic(s). The"give up" issues must be addressed before [real] FSD is possible. I have also tested the same road with coming/opposing traffic. It surprised me and did remarkably well - didn't have the camera on then

What is still curious is where there are two painted lane markers (typical multi-lane roadway) and one of the painted lines goes away (turn lanes, road curves, etc. ), AP often times gets it entirely wrong on where to go - and can do it rather violently. Instead of keeping the same distance from the one side lane paint markings.

It is getting better crossing wide intersections where no lane lines are painted. But it's still like a 13yo learning driver. Requiring CONSTANT supervision.


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## sduck

garsh said:


> Some people like to test it out in unsupported conditions.
> As long as people realize it's not supported, that they'll be responsible for any accidents that occur, and are ready to take over if it makes a catastrophically wrong decision, then have fun.


Yes, of course. There have been plenty of discussions about all this. However, there's a very fine line between "I wanted to see if it works/I'm doing it for science/helping to train the neural net" and "hold my beer and watch this!". As long as you're aware of this distinction, fine. But don't blame autopilot if something goes horribly wrong!


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## Klaus-rf

sduck said:


> But don't blame autopilot if something goes horribly wrong!


 Reminds me of one of my co-workers famous lines:

"I said I was blaming you. I didn't say it was your fault."


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## M3OC Rules

Klaus-rf said:


> The above "test" shows that AP does NOT need painted lines to determine where its going to position the car. It appears to measure a distance reference off the hard curb on the right.


I agree. I know having a curb on one side is not enough for it to allow you to turn it on in all cases but it seems like it tries to do its best once it's on. Based on my experience I'm a little surprised it allowed them to turn it on there but in both cases, the autopilot is already on so maybe the conditions were different when it was turned on.


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## DocScott

(This was from 20.4.4, so slightly different point version.)

I found this interesting tday. Back on Autonomy Day, Elon showed off how the neural net will predict the way a roadway is going to curve. Most of the time, the projection showed on the display isn't far enough ahead for me to notice if our HW 2.5 cars are actually doing that or if it's just the demo they were showing. But this photo I took today shows that HW 2.5 cars _do_ project ahead, because in this case it gets it wrong. AP thinks the road ahead makes a gentle curve, when actually it's just a regular right-angle intersection. I can kind of see why it thinks that; the rounded corner of the grassy area on the near side combines with some confusing visual cues across the street to make it look a little like that's what happens. But to a human, there are plenty of cues that it's a right-angle intersection, such as the orientation stop lights.


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## 350VDC

Sorry if this was covered elsewhere, but today with Sentry mode turned ON, I was in a restaurant watching my car and turned on the AC for pre-cooling and the alarm went off, flashing lights and all.
Anyone else have this bug?


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## garsh

350VDC said:


> Sorry if this was covered elsewhere, but today with Sentry mode turned ON, I was in a restaurant watching my car and turned on the AC for pre-cooling and the alarm went off, flashing lights and all.
> Anyone else have this bug?


Ha! I'm going to have to give that one a try!


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## Rick Steinwand

My backup camera was black the whole time while backing out of a parking spot. Several times during the next 5 minutes, when I switched the backup camera back on, it was still black. I had trouble with this several builds ago, but for the most part, it seemed resolved. I did NOT reboot, yet it was working an hour later, when I was leaving Mom's house. It had been parked for at least an hour.


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## Bokonon

Rick Steinwand said:


> My backup camera was black the whole time while backing out of a parking spot. Several times during the next 5 minutes, when I switched the backup camera back on, it was still black. I had trouble with this several builds ago, but for the most part, it seemed resolved. I did NOT reboot, yet it was working an hour later, when I was leaving Mom's house. It had been parked for at least an hour.


I've had that issue on 20.4.2 as well. It also coincided with lack of camera and radar input (i.e. no cruise, Autopilot, or dashcam). Everything came back after the car was parked at work for a few hours.


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## Dr. J

DocScott said:


> (This was from 20.4.4, so slightly different point version.)
> 
> I found this interesting tday. Back on Autonomy Day, Elon showed off how the neural net will predict the way a roadway is going to curve. Most of the time, the projection showed on the display isn't far enough ahead for me to notice if our HW 2.5 cars are actually doing that or if it's just the demo they were showing. But this photo I took today shows that HW 2.5 cars _do_ project ahead, because in this case it gets it wrong. AP thinks the road ahead makes a gentle curve, when actually it's just a regular right-angle intersection. I can kind of see why it thinks that; the rounded corner of the grassy area on the near side combines with some confusing visual cues across the street to make it look a little like that's what happens. But to a human, there are plenty of cues that it's a right-angle intersection, such as the orientation stop lights.
> View attachment 27608


Maybe AP was anticipating (too early) the curve ahead, and not on your route, which I guess is an entrance ramp to I-287?


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## DocScott

Dr. J said:


> Maybe AP was anticipating (too early) the curve ahead, and not on your route, which I guess is an entrance ramp to I-287?


I think that's too far ahead. The display shows the road curving immediately after the car in front of me. The curve in the entrance ramp doesn't happen for another couple of hundred feet. You can see that the right turn on to North Broadway has an unusual shape to it, though--not quite a merge lane, but an exaggerated rounding to the corner. I'm pretty sure it's the exaggerated rounding that's throwing it off.

In fact, it's _almost_ right. But if you actually followed the blue lines as shown at the instant I took the picture you'd cross lanes and have a hard time completing the turn in time to avoid crossing the double-yellow. To be clear, I'm sure AP wouldn't actually do that; another few feet forward and it would either correct or understand that it was in a situation it couldn't handle and disengage. Since AP is not yet equipped to handle turns at intersections on surface streets, that's not a knock against the system or a safety hazard. (The only reason AP was on at all in that situation is that I'd just come off of 287.) But it's interesting to see the predictive algorithm in play...


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