# Maintenance Plans - Yes, DIY or in part



## PcGuy (May 30, 2017)

I haven't seen anyone discuss in great detail their thoughts on teslas maintenance plans. After reading through the plans and Tesla's "recommendations" (which really feel mandatory), some of it seems superfluous and costly. While I'm sure the cost of maintenance plans for the model 3 will be lower, I can't imagine the recommendations would be much different.








Do I really need a key fob battery replaced every year? I haven't replaced the key fob battery in any my leases (3 years each) that I've ever had. Can't i replace my battery fluid and air filter every two years myself? I'm sure I could replace my windshield wipers on my own! What exactly is a A/C desiccant bag? Can't i have an independent tire shop rotate and align the tires/wheels? I'm looking to minimize cost where I can, simply because it would be an even more valuable car for me.

What do you guys think about maintenance and how this applies to the Model 3?


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

PcGuy said:


> I haven't seen anyone discuss in great detail their thoughts on teslas maintenance plans. After reading through the plans and Tesla's "recommendations" (which really feel mandatory), some of it seems superfluous and costly. While I'm sure the cost of maintenance plans for the model 3 will be lower, I can't imagine the recommendations would be much different.
> View attachment 1744
> 
> Do I really need a key fob battery replaced every year? I haven't replaced the key fob battery in any my leases (3 years each) that I've ever had. Can't i replace my battery fluid and air filter every two years myself? I'm sure I could replace my windshield wipers on my own! What exactly is a A/C desiccant bag? Can't i have an independent tire shop rotate and align the tires/wheels? I'm looking to minimize cost where I can, simply because it would be an even more valuable car for me.
> ...


I haven't given it too much thought beyond a small chuckle when people say EV's cost less to maintain (no oil changes) and then you see Tesla's recommend maintenance and it's very expensive.

My initial thought is that it will most assuredly be cheaper on the cheaper and "more simple" car.

I drive 20,000 miles a year, so I guess we'll see...


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## JBsC6 (Oct 17, 2016)

I think I'd pass although the individual cost of fluid changes might alter my mind...I agree some of these service items seem. Really weird...jmo


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## PcGuy (May 30, 2017)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I haven't given it too much thought beyond a small chuckle when people say EV's cost less to maintain (no oil changes) and then you see Tesla's recommend maintenance and it's very expensive.
> 
> My initial thought is that it will most assuredly be cheaper on the cheaper and "more simple" car.
> 
> I drive 20,000 miles a year, so I guess we'll see...


My exact thoughts when I read Tesla's "recommendations"! I couldn't believe the costs. One of the main selling points to my wife is that there is no gas and less maintenance and thus less costs .


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I haven't given it too much thought beyond a small chuckle when people say EV's cost less to maintain (no oil changes) and then you see Tesla's recommend maintenance and it's very expensive.


It sure is. I'm hoping that whatever plan they offer for the 3 is a lot more reasonable.

I decided to go through my records and figure out what all I've spent on my Leaf. The dealership I bought it from gives free lifetime state inspections. EDIT - I've highlighted the "normal" maintenance, which excludes my accident &

$500.00 04/2012 Insurance deductible (hit & run on my brand new car!)
$168.78 03/2013 Replace stripped lug stud & nut (stupid mistake on my part)
$110.00 07/2014 Purchased 17" wheels from an Infiniti G35 (craigslist)
$50.00 08/2014 Front summer tires (craigslist)
$171.94 08/2014 New rear summer tires
$78.63 08/2014 Mount & Balance 4 summer tires
$20.27 03/2015 Battery Inspection
$376.00 10/2015 Four new Yokohama winter tires
$143.58 10/2015 Two new front summer tires
$69.95 11/2015 Mount & Balance 4 winter tires (on OEM 16" rims)
$45.05 12/2015 Mount & Balance 2 new front tires
$533.12 03/2016 Battery Inspection, replace left front lower control arm to pass inspection (ouch)
$27.14 03/2017 Battery Inspection

Total: $2294.46 for 5 years, 2 months of ownership (~$460/yr).


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## PcGuy (May 30, 2017)

garsh said:


> It sure is. I'm hoping that whatever plan they offer for the 3 is a lot more reasonable.
> 
> I decided to go through my records and figure out what all I've spent on my Leaf. The dealership I bought it from gives free lifetime state inspections.
> 
> ...


I won't be adding any new tires unless needed, so that goes down further for me. What about fluids, air filters and tire rotations?


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

garsh said:


> It sure is. I'm hoping that whatever plan they offer for the 3 is a lot more reasonable.
> 
> I decided to go through my records and figure out what all I've spent on my Leaf. The dealership I bought it from gives free lifetime state inspections.
> 
> ...


By your numbers I would remove the first 3 for $778.78 as those weren't really "service items". Well #2 maybe, but you said it was a mistake on your part.

To that end, service that you couldn't control cost you $293.36/year.

Not bad!


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## JRP3 (Jun 3, 2017)

I'm going to predict no required maintenance on the first year other than tires or wipers if needed.


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## Johnm6875 (Nov 14, 2016)

garsh said:


> It sure is. I'm hoping that whatever plan they offer for the 3 is a lot more reasonable.
> 
> I decided to go through my records and figure out what all I've spent on my Leaf. The dealership I bought it from gives free lifetime state inspections.
> 
> ...


Of your list the Tesla plan would only cover the Battery Inspections?
$20.27 03/2015 + $27.14+/- 03/2016 + $27.14 03/2017


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## ModFather (Apr 3, 2016)

If you read some of the MS/X forums about the service plan, opinions are all over the board. Many MS/X owners have had their cars well over 5 years. Those owners who have had few repairs say the plan isn't worth it. Other owners who needed major repairs say the plan paid for itself in the first year!

It's insurance! If you can afford and willing to fund major repairs out of your own pocket if needed then I wouldn't buy the plan. If you are on a tight budget and want to sleep well at night, then yes, buy it. I expect that independent shops will sprout up like daisys to handle once a year general maintenance for much less than a visit to a Tesla Service Center. I haven't made up my mind yet until I see the actual service plan for the model 3, but I am leaning toward purchasing the plan because it is a new car with potential for more than average issues and I would rather spend a chunk of money on a future cruise than on car repairs.


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## JRP3 (Jun 3, 2017)

el crucero said:


> If you can afford and willing to fund major repairs out of your own pocket if needed then I wouldn't buy the plan.


Wouldn't those be covered under warranty?


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## Johnm6875 (Nov 14, 2016)

el crucero said:


> If you read some of the MS/X forums about the service plan, opinions are all over the board. Many MS/X owners have had their cars well over 5 years. Those owners who have had few repairs say the plan isn't worth it. Other owners who needed major repairs say the plan paid for itself in the first year!
> 
> It's insurance! If you can afford and willing to fund major repairs out of your own pocket if needed then I wouldn't buy the plan. If you are on a tight budget and want to sleep well at night, then yes, buy it. I expect that independent shops will sprout up like daisys to handle once a year general maintenance for much less than a visit to a Tesla Service Center. I haven't made up my mind yet until I see the actual service plan for the model 3, but I am leaning toward purchasing the plan because it is a new car with potential for more than average issues and I would rather spend a chunk of money on a future cruise than on car repairs.
> I haven't decided yet until I see the actual service plan for the model 3.
> ...


Wouldn't "major repairs" be covered by the warranty? The maintenance plan seems to be specific to routine items. Brakes, wipers, alignment, etc., I'm hoping, will be easily done independent shops. The battery coolant replacement, maybe not.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

el crucero said:


> If you read some of the MS/X forums about the service plan, opinions are all over the board. Many MS/X owners have had their cars well over 5 years. Those owners who have had few repairs say the plan isn't worth it. Other owners who needed major repairs say the plan paid for itself in the first year!
> 
> It's insurance! If you can afford and willing to fund major repairs out of your own pocket if needed then I wouldn't buy the plan. If you are on a tight budget and want to sleep well at night, then yes, buy it. I expect that independent shops will sprout up like daisys to handle once a year general maintenance for much less than a visit to a Tesla Service Center. I haven't made up my mind yet until I see the actual service plan for the model 3, but I am leaning toward purchasing the plan because it is a new car with potential for more than average issues and I would rather spend a chunk of money on a future cruise than on car repairs.


I guess I'll be the third to reply with the same thing.

This isn't insurance, this is a preventative maintenance plan. The discount is the result of prepaying for the service plan rather than paying at each service.

Major issues/repairs are covered under the warranty and completely unrelated.


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## ModFather (Apr 3, 2016)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> This isn't insurance, this is a preventative maintenance plan. The discount is the result of prepaying for the service plan rather than paying at each service.





JRP3 said:


> Wouldn't those be covered under warranty?





Johnm6875 said:


> Wouldn't "major repairs" be covered by the warranty?


Here is a sampling of posts from another forum.



kjl said:


> So my model S is nearing its 4 year birthday and I'm trying to decide whether or not I should renew my maintenance plan with the 4 year extension.
> 
> I was wondering if people who have opted not to purchase the plans have generally found the maintenance on their cars to be pretty low, or if they wish they had purchased the extension.
> 
> Normally this would be kind of a no-brainer (just buy it), but iirc one of the main draws of the Tesla model was that they were charging a lot to make it so that they didn't have to make money off the maintenance of the car (unlike traditional car companies). Indeed, over the last 4 years, I've had a few issues which were not covered under the warranty, but were then marked as "good will" on the invoice, and I believe I haven't been charged for anything at all except for a new nosecone to replace the one that I stupidly broke. So I guess I'm wondering if Tesla service will continue to be as generous after my service plan runs out.





Tam said:


> If you want to pay for a Maintenance Plan, you must pay up within the first 12 months or 12,500 miles (whichever occurs first).
> 
> That sounds like you are not talking about it since you are on 4th year.
> 
> ...





KidDoc said:


> I didn't get the extended maintenance due to the high cost and $100 copay per repair on top of that so at least $4,500 no matter what happens over the next several years. So I opted to gamble on just paying cash. I'm at 55,000 miles now and just had to shell out about $950 for a leaky seal causing headliner staining on one of the rear doors.
> 
> Only time will tell but I think you can argue both ways honestly. I'm just hoping I don't end up paying > $4,500 in repairs over the next 3 years.





John5396 said:


> I just used my ESA for a door handle, a roof leak, and a leak into the rear hatch.
> 
> They recorded it as goodwill, so didn't charge me the $200 copay, but I expect that if I didn't have the coverage this would have set me back 1/2 or more of the 4 year price.
> 
> I think it was insurance well spent.





bishoppeak said:


> You should only insure against losses you can't afford to cover yourself. No Tesla owner cannot afford these repairs, therefore you are gambling. You bet that your car will require more repairs than the cost of the coverage, they bet that it won't. Who do you think is better at calculating these odds?


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

el crucero said:


> Here is a sampling of posts fromn another forum.


I believe you're mixing "Maintenance Plan" and "Extended Service Agreement".

The extended service agreement is what kicks in after the warranty is gone.

Extended Service Agreement: https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty

Maintenance Plan: https://www.tesla.com/support/maintenance-plans


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## ModFather (Apr 3, 2016)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I believe you're mixing "Maintenance Plan" and "Extended Service Agreement".
> 
> The extended service agreement is what kicks in after the warranty is gone.
> 
> ...


Yes, that is correct, BUT, BUT, BUT as I read the ESA and from what I read by MS owners, in order to qualify for the ESA, you must purchase the Maintenance Plan within the first year (within 12,500 miles), which if you stop to think about it is only logical. Why would Tesla want to warranty previous DIY work or work by a third party after your basic warranty has expired?


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

el crucero said:


> Yes, that is correct, BUT, BUT, BUT as I read the ESA and from what I read by MS owners, in order to qualify for the ESA, you must purchase the Maintenance Plan within the first year (within 12,500 miles), which if you stop to think about it is only logical. Why would Tesla want to warranty previous DIY work or work by a third party after your basic warranty has expired?


Yes that's where it gets a bit hairy. Hard to provide an extended warranty with a confirmation that service (and inspections were kept up). In the end you will spend a small fortune servicing and repairing this car that supposedly doesn't need all of that.


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## ModFather (Apr 3, 2016)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> Yes that's where it gets a bit hairy. Hard to provide an extended warranty with a confirmation that service (and inspections were kept up). In the end you will spend a small fortune servicing and repairing this car that supposedly doesn't need all of that.


Thank you, my point is that the maintenance plan is an insurance plan to insure that you will qualify for the ESA if you chose. I know it is expensive but it could be even more expensive if you have to pay for significant repairs once your basic warranty expires. It's a roll of the dice. Yes, you can do all of that basic maintenance work yourself for next to nothing--------but do you feel lucky?


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## PcGuy (May 30, 2017)

el crucero said:


> Yes, that is correct, BUT, BUT, BUT as I read the ESA and from what I read by MS owners, in order to qualify for the ESA, you must purchase the Maintenance Plan within the first year (within 12,500 miles), which if you stop to think about it is only logical. Why would Tesla want to warranty previous DIY work or work by a third party after your basic warranty has expired?


I understand what you are saying, but my focus is on the maintenance plan itself and whether it is a necessity or are we able to do some or all ourselves. Specifically the cost is my issue. I understand I require tire rotation and various others items, however i am sure some is not needed. Or at least as often as they suggest.


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## ModFather (Apr 3, 2016)

PcGuy said:


> I understand what you are saying, but my focus is on the maintenance plan itself and whether it is a necessity or are we able to do some or all ourselves. Specifically the cost is my issue. I understand I require tire rotation and various others items, however i am sure some is not needed. Or at least as often as they suggest.


I am confused. Why would you purchase a Maintenance Plan and then do the work yourself? The key point is, you have to purchase the Maintenance Plan if you want to qualify for the ESA at the end of your basic warranty. If you want to personally assume the cost of potential significant repairs after expiration of your warranty then by all means don't purchase the Maintenance Plan. No, the Maintenance Plan does not make financial sense on a cost basis for listed maintenance. However, it does make financial sense if you want to guarantee that you will have the option to purchase the ESA in the future.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

el crucero said:


> Thank you, my point is that the maintenance plan is an insurance plan to insure that you will qualify for the ESA if you chose. I know it is expensive but it could be even more expensive if you have to pay for significant repairs once your basic warranty expires. It's a roll of the dice. Yes, you can do all of that basic maintenance work yourself for next to nothing--------but do you feel lucky?


So basically, your car comes with a 4 year/50,000 mile warranty (battery and drive unit get 8 years/unlimited miles). You can extend it by 50% or 100%. I'm sure there is a lot of fine print.

Personally I have never bought an extended warranty before. I'm basically betting for my car to fail to the tune of $1,000/year and I just don't like that. Also I get bored. As much as I will love this car, in 4-5 years I'll want a new Tesla.


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## JBsC6 (Oct 17, 2016)

When shopping for a tesla and discussing the various plans even the dealership staff has a smile on their face these days with regards to prepurchasing maintance plams.

Take it for what it's worth but I'll be paying for the service as I deem what is necessary to pay for and what not to pay for.

I don't want to do overkill on paying for unnecessary (imo) service.

I never change the cabin air filters etc...that's money that is wasted...it's like the old days of going to jiffy lube for an oil change...there are items designed to create perfection as well as raise the IAT for the dealer network (individual average transaction)

There are customers who want perfection and for them these service plans serve them well.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

Food for thought.... say the service plan is $2,000 for years (it will be cheaper than the S). 

On a standard 5 year loan @1.99 interest, that will increase your monthly payment by $35 and overall you will pay $2,103 for it with the interest.


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## ModFather (Apr 3, 2016)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> Personally I have never bought an extended warranty before. I'm basically betting for my car to fail to the tune of $1,000/year and I just don't like that. Also I get bored. As much as I will love this car, in 4-5 years I'll want a new Tesla.


Then the Maintenance Plan does not make sense for you if you are DIY. But consider, that IF the model 3 has higher than expected repair records (under basic warranty) you may take a hit on resale if it doesn't qualify for ESA. I'm not arguing against your strategy, I may do that myself, I'm just relaying what is going through my mind as I consider the (as yet unknown) options. It's a gamble.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2017)

For those who don't want to pay too much:
_
AC desiccant bag replacement -_ this is not something that should be done if AC system is not being opened due to repair/damage. Neither should system be "properly filled". If system effectiveness drops (user notices) or pressure sensor doesn't allow AC startup, then it's time to spend money. It's safe and you will not die due to AC not working (slower Supercharging is the worst scenario).

_Battery coolant replacement_- makes sense to do after 4 years if vehicle was in heavy use. Though safe to prolong a year or two under low use scenario.

_Brake fluid replacement_ - law requires every 2 years. Could be extended to 3 years with no risks, max 4 years. Mileage doesn't apply here though heavy users should stay with "up to 3 years".
_Cabin air filter_ - should be replaced when needed. Though no more than 2-3 years expected. Depends on dust levels and mileage mostly.
_Drive unit(s) fluid_ - not sure about first year service (most likely Tesla precaution due to premature problems with drivetrain), other EV's dont do that. Though reasonable to do every 4-5 years as fluid degrades, especially in humid/cold climate.
_Key fob battery _- just wait for low battery warning. No need to replace earlier.
_Tire rotation_ - I own two sets on every vehicle - one for warm weather one for sub-freezing weather. No need for separate rotation. Recommended to everybody for best grip all year around. Avoid all-seasons in summer for better economy and grip. Avoid all-seasons in cold for safety and more performance.
_Wheel alignment_ - Definitely done after suspension part replacements though rarely just for fun.
_Wiper blades _- should be replaced as soon as wiping performance degrades, depends on climate. Usually no more than 1-2 years.

Well, definitely need to check the brakes, even though not by Tesla. Brakes require some easy maintenance (cleaning, leveling brake pad friction surface, lubrication) before brake pad replacement, especially on lightweight EV-s as pads last a long time. Once a year is fine. In case of non-heavy use and clean/dry climate maybe once every other year. Grooves on brake discs, vibrations, noises or incorrectly worn brake pads are the results of lack of service. Nothing life-threatening though require more costly maintenance. *

Model 3 will partly be made out of steel. That means taking care for corrosion in some areas (aggressive climates with salted roads). This means removing some underbelly panels for good wash and possibly annual corrosion protection spray. As EV lifetime is expected to be longer than ICE vehicle, taking care of EV bodywork matters more.

I do not plan to pay for maintenance plans. Model 3 buyers class expect no more than 300€ annually for service.

Just for information: 
BMW offers all-inclusive service during 100 000km period (everything except your tires). And offers 200 000km/5 year warranty for some markets, like mine.

*Just for fun:
There is a fluid called "brake cleaner" - human race uses that for everything else but that.


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## JBsC6 (Oct 17, 2016)

The difference between buying the service by item versus the plan is minimal. I think you save a couple of hundred a year if you did it individually versus paying for the service as part of your loan.

This offered new consumers of electric vehicles a feeling of security when buying into new technology. Still I'll pass and fwiw..I always buy gmepp warranties for my corvettes and cadillacs because it's only an extra 400 a year for each of the additional 3 or 4 years at 12k miles a year.

If tesla offers that type of extended warranty for the vehicle with a 100 dollar deductible after the regular manufacturers waaranty ends I'll buy it.

Traditionally GM requires consumers purchase the extended gmepp warranty before the traditional warranty ends...usually it's 6k miles and 6 months before the regular warranty expires..

That I would buy from tesla for sure...

Prepaid maintance with a savings of 150 dollars if I did all the service in the plan? That I'll pass on because some of the planned maintance on the tesla plan just doesn't strike me as something I'd do if I were paying out of pocket for each item...i.e. Interior cabin air filter...I just don't care enough to have that done..

Also I never rotate my tires as I think it's a waste of time...and the list goes on.

I'm smart enough to figure out the maintaince items on the list I feel are necessary and I'll get them done on time and independently...or at the dealership but not as part of a prepaid maintance plan that many people preferred to roll into the loan or lease...

To each their own I guess and choices are a good thing..

This way everyone wins


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## PcGuy (May 30, 2017)

@el crucero i dont know how to explain this any further. You are assuming I am purchasing the maintenance plan no matter what. I am not that far and am in debate whether it is such a prudent choice.

@arnis thank you for explaining the _AC desiccant bag as well as everything else. That is exactly what I was looking for. Much appreciated!
_
@JBsC6 my sentiments exactly! Although I will be rotating my tires at least once a year. I would like to perform whatever I can.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

there has also been many antidotal Model S / X owners with the service plan that when they go in for their annual appointment, Tesla will voluntarily replace various items that you may not have even picked on having been out of spec. The general sentiment I've seen when looking thru those posts on TMC is it's more than paid for itself in preventative repairs that Tesla has done without any extra charge.


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## PcGuy (May 30, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> there has also been many antidotal Model S / X owners with the service plan that when they go in for their annual appointment, Tesla will voluntarily replace various items that you may not have even picked on having been out of spec. The general sentiment I've seen when looking thru those posts on TMC is it's more than paid for itself in preventative repairs that Tesla has done without any extra charge.


Yes but when you are spending ( Model S is Year 1 $475, Year 2 $725, Year 3 $475, Year 4 $850), lets assume Year 1 $350, Year 2 $575, Year 3 $350, Year 4 $700 and I would usually or expect to spend on oil changes, tire rotation, fluid checks over 4 years about $500, that just sounds way more cost than necessary.


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## ModFather (Apr 3, 2016)

MelindaV said:


> there has also been many antidotal Model S / X owners with the service plan that when they go in for their annual appointment, Tesla will voluntarily replace various items that you may not have even picked on having been out of spec. The general sentiment I've seen when looking thru those posts on TMC is it's more than paid for itself in preventative repairs that Tesla has done without any extra charge.


Yes, I observed the same anecdotes. There is a significant number of MS owners who think it is foolish NOT to purchase the maintenance plan because Tesla does so much more than the simple list in the description. They think it is penny wise and pound foolish to DIY.

Also there is some reported evidence that should a failure occur during the warranty period as a result of DIY or third party negligence, it could result in voiding parts of the warranty.

I don't know, I haven't made up my mind and I won't do so until the maintenance plan for the model 3 is officially released. So I didn't respond to the poll.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> there has also been many antidotal Model S / X owners with the service plan that when they go in for their annual appointment, Tesla will voluntarily replace various items that you may not have even picked on having been out of spec. The general sentiment I've seen when looking thru those posts on TMC is it's more than paid for itself in preventative repairs that Tesla has done without any extra charge.


But here is the thing ... you can bring your car in for service whenever you want while it's under warranty to get things "fixed".

The fact that they catch and fix things when you bring it in for regular service is good on them, but I don't see what they have to do with each other.


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## JBsC6 (Oct 17, 2016)

Even the dealers laugh and nod when discussing service plans.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

JBsC6 said:


> Even the dealers laugh and nod when discussing service plans.


Assuming Tesla expands their network of certified third party shops, that should drive the cost down and there is no reason why a certified shop would jeopardize an extended warranty should you want one.


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## JRP3 (Jun 3, 2017)

Just remember that extended plans are offered for any product for one reason only, they are profitable, and they are profitable because most people never use them. My rule is to never buy extended service unless you know it's a crappy product but for some reason you really need it.


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## ModFather (Apr 3, 2016)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> But here is the thing ... you can bring your car in for service whenever you want while it's under warranty to get things "fixed"..


Why would you do that? A regular service check is going to be more expensive than the Maintenance Plan. And what would you do, take the car in and say, "I don't know of anything wrong, I don't want to pay anything for service, I just want you to check it over and see if you can find anything wrong," I'm sure that will make you very popular at your local Service Center! And it will not make you popular with me when I am a paying customer for service and I have to wait in line behind someone who is looking for something for nothing.  Yes, if you know there is something that needs to fixed under warranty take it in. The point is service may find things that need to be fixed to prevent future problems when going in for a paid service check, but that you didn't know needed to be fixed.


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

Wow, I never knew about this.
I assumed maintenance is included during warranty. Most of the other premium car brands do this.
http://bmwusa.com/ultimatecare_maintenance

If Tesla is targeting the BMW 3 series, this will be a big negative.

Looking at that chart, almost everything there seems fairly DIY.

I may only have a driveway, but I tend to do oil changes, brake work, fluid replacement, simple part replacement, and electronic work myself. You should be able to tell them you only want them performing certain maintenance items, and saving a ton of money.

The Model 3 is selling to a different demographic than folks who think nothing of blowing 70 grand on an S and X. I hope Tesla models its 3 maintenance plans and pricing accordingly.


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## JRP3 (Jun 3, 2017)

I expect they will.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2017)

JWardell said:


> Wow, I never knew about this.
> I assumed maintenance is included during warranty. Most of the other premium car brands do this.
> http://bmwusa.com/ultimatecare_maintenance
> 
> If Tesla is targeting the BMW 3 series, this will be a big negative.


This was my surprise as well. BMW offers 5 years 200 000 km all around warranty AND 5 years 100 000 km free services, everywhere (excluding Russia AFAIK). Tesla does not. Model 3 customers definitely consider those things.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

el crucero said:


> Why would you do that? A regular service check is going to be more expensive than the Maintenance Plan. And what would you do, take the car in and say, "I don't know of anything wrong, I don't want to pay anything for service, I just want you to check it over and see if you can find anything wrong," I'm sure that will make you very popular at your local Service Center! And it will not make you popular with me when I am a paying customer for service and I have to wait in line behind someone who is looking for something for nothing.  Yes, if you know there is something that needs to fixed under warranty take it in. The point is service may find things that need to be fixed to prevent future problems when going in for a paid service check, but that you didn't know needed to be fixed.


No no, I didn't mean I would bring it in for random inspections. I said you want bring in your car whenever you want implying for break fix under warranty.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

JWardell said:


> Wow, I never knew about this.
> I assumed maintenance is included during warranty. Most of the other premium car brands do this.
> http://bmwusa.com/ultimatecare_maintenance
> 
> ...


BMW isn't giving you a lot "for free" in that ultimate service. All said, it probably has a value of a few hundred tops. Moreover it's built into the price of the car.


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## ModFather (Apr 3, 2016)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> No no, I didn't mean I would bring it in for random inspections. I said you want bring in your car whenever you want implying for break fix under warranty.


Okay, I understand, but what if the warranty issue is caused by a lack of preventive maintenance not done by DIY? My understanding from the MS guys is Tesla does a lot more in a service check than the simple list presented above. Tesla could logically deny a warranty claim for something that was neglected or overlooked by DIY. I'm not saying they would, but the last thing I want to do is get in a pi$$ing match with my local Service Center about warranty work. If I have Tesla do all the service work, then they are responsible for ALL warranty issues that might come up plus I then qualify for the ESA. Hopefully this is all a mute point if Tesla comes up with a service plan for the model 3 that is more competitive with other brands of ICE.


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2017)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> BMW isn't giving you a lot "for free" in that ultimate service. All said, it probably has a value of a few hundred tops. Moreover it's built into the price of the car.


Well actually everything is included that should be done during first 100 000km / 5 years. Excluding tires.
If it is built into the price of the vehicle then vehicle itself is cheaper. And it doesn't even matter.
*Model 3 buyers will sum up vehicle price, insurance price, service price and running costs into one average monthly expense.*


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

arnis said:


> Well actually everything is included that should be done during first 100 000km / 5 years. Excluding tires.
> If it is built into the price of the vehicle then vehicle itself is cheaper. And it doesn't even matter.
> *Model 3 buyers will sum up vehicle price, insurance price, service price and running costs into one average monthly expense.*


This might vary by market as the link posted suggested 3 years/36,000 (miles) for the plan, which was highly limited. It also depends which 3 series you compare to the Model 3.

I would suggest Model 3 compares to a 330i and not a 320i. Well in the US the 330i starts at $38,750 ($3,750 more than Model 3).


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

el crucero said:


> Okay, I understand, but what if the warranty issue is caused by a lack of preventive maintenance not done by DIY? My understanding from the MS guys is Tesla does a lot more in a service check than the simple list presented above. Tesla could logically deny a warranty claim for something that was neglected or overlooked by DIY. I'm not saying they would, but the last thing I want to do is get in a pi$$ing match with my local Service Center about warranty work. If I have Tesla do all the service work, then they are responsible for ALL warranty issues that might come up plus I then qualify for the ESA. Hopefully this is all a mute point if Tesla comes up with a service plan for the model 3 that is more competitive with other brands of ICE.


Yes, you're right... they can deny warranty on a neglected item. I'm not saying I would neglect my car, I'm just saying I don't need to prepay for maintenance at Tesla's rate. I can bring the car to a certified shop for regular maintenance. They are expanding their network of certified shops presumably because there is no shot they can handle all of these cars and because consumers want options. Some will prepay and call it a day. Some will pay each time and call it a day. Others will look for an independent and get the work done at what is likely a fraction of the cost. Tesla would have to prove your car was neglected to be able to deny your warranty claim.

That's all I'm saying.

Besides... aren't these cars supposed to be simpler with fewer moving parts in the end? The preventive maintenance should match that theory.


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2017)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I would suggest Model 3 compares to a 330i and not a 320i. Well in the US the 330i starts at $38,750 ($3,750 more than Model 3).


Jep, 330i is the closest one.
Here 330i starts at 40100€. Model 3 will be something like 34500€ +20% = 41400€ (our vehicle prices are always with VAT).
But I must be clear that to make those two at least somewhat comparable, 330i must add auto gearbox for 2100€.
So the price is pretty close if we consider BMW has all services included. Shorter mileage though.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I'm just saying I don't need to prepay for maintenance at Tesla's rate. I can bring the car to a certified shop for regular maintenance.


They only have certified body shops, not routine maintenance and don't think I've seen anything indicating that is changing.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> They only have certified body shops, not routine maintenance and don't think I've seen anything indicating that is changing.


I thought that was the plan, but could be mistaken. I would definitely be cautious then for sure. What's the saying... penny wise, dollar foolish. I don't want that to be me


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## Van Shrider (Apr 3, 2016)

In this video, Sahil goes through the costs of owning a Tesla S. there are a few things there that I hadn't thought about yet.
He also talks about the paint being unique or as he says "soft" and it should only be hand washed.


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> BMW isn't giving you a lot "for free" in that ultimate service. All said, it probably has a value of a few hundred tops. Moreover it's built into the price of the car.


I agree the service plan is only giving you a few hundred of Do-It-Yourself dollars. But clearly it is a few thousand pay-the-dealership dollars. Wether you consider the price built in, well that depends on how much cash you blow on the car. BMW has plenty of great cars for 33 grand. You can of course easily spec them up in the 70s and 100s.

It's very nice for many people that do not have any interest or ability in car maintenance to know that for the first several years at least, they literally do not have to worry about any expense or decision.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

JWardell said:


> I agree the service plan is only giving you a few hundred of Do-It-Yourself dollars. But clearly it is a few thousand pay-the-dealership dollars. Wether you consider the price built in, well that depends on how much cash you blow on the car. BMW has plenty of great cars for 33 grand. You can of course easily spec them up in the 70s and 100s.
> 
> It's very nice for many people that do not have any interest or ability in car maintenance to know that for the first several years at least, they literally do not have to worry about any expense or decision.


Yes, but my point was that the Model 3 is a base of $35k. I think the comparable 3 series (330i) starts at $38k. So if you want the Tesla maintenance plan, you can get it and still come in cheaper than the 330i.


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## PcGuy (May 30, 2017)

I'm not sure this was discussed...if the S and X come in at $2,325 and $2,400 for maintenance for 4 years, what do you think the 3 will be? Due to the large price difference I would say around $2,000. That still feels too expensive to me. Although I'm still thinking about the cost of my current ICE.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

PcGuy said:


> I'm not sure this was discussed...if the S and X come in at $2,325 and $2,400 for maintenance for 4 years, what do you think the 3 will be? Due to the large price difference I would say around $2,000. That still feels too expensive to me. Although I'm still thinking about the cost of my current ICE.


Yeah that was my thought... right in the $2,000 range. Yes the car is cheaper and simpler, but generally speaking they're looking at the same parts and the time of the technicians is the same as would be the bill rate so it can't be much cheaper.


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2017)

2000 is not acceptable. Like we just discussed, BMW offers all inclusive service (at least all inclusive in EU). And that definitely is not near 2000 pricepoint. More like 1000€.

I splitted the pricing of that plan up:

coolant change 125$
AC decc with refill + brake fluid + cabin filter 250$
driveunit oil check/refill 0$ (like I said, this is not a thing that should be done anyway)
wiper blades + multipoint inspection + key battery + alignment check/adjust 475$

Coolant change 125$ - this is exactly correct price for coolant and work
Brake fluid change - fluid with work should be around 30-60$,
cabin filter with work should be around 30-40$ (non-HEPA)
That leaves AC refill and desiccant bag, 160$. Refill should be like 40-70$ (though they should reuse the gas). Desiccant should not cost more than 100$. So estimations are good enough.
Driveunit oil level check should be in the multipoint inspection, oil change should not be happening on the first 3-4 years.
Wiper blades with labor is around 40-60$, fob battery with labor 10$, alignment check/adjustment 60-100$ for labor.
This leaves multipoint inspection 325$. That is A LOT. No less than 6 hours of labor which is definitely not happening.

For model 3 my estimations:
coolant change 100$ - same interval, 4 years, 8 years...
AC desicc with refill - not happening
brake fluid 50$ - 2 years, 4 years, 6 years..
driveunit oil refill - after 4-5 years, 100$
wiper blades - not in service plan, though costs like 40-50$
key battery - not in the plan, get it from Walmart or Tesla 10$
cabin filter - every 2 year, 30$ with labor
alignment check/adjust - not in the plan, though 100$ if requested/seen on tire wear
*Multi point inspection *- I hope somewhere between 100-150$ to be competitive with others.
Rotation - free with multipoint inspection (wheels are removed, just put them back to opposite side)
Somewhere between year 5-7 TPMS sensors need to be changed. That's around 180$ plus labor 30-50$

Year1: *100$*
Year2: *100*+50+30$
Year3: *100$*
Year4: *100*+100+50+30$
Year5: *100*+100$
Year6: *100*+50+30$


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

arnis said:


> 2000 is not acceptable. Like we just discussed, BMW offers all inclusive service (at least all inclusive in EU). And that definitely is not near 2000 pricepoint. More like 1000€.
> 
> I splitted the pricing of that plan up:
> 
> ...


You just made the point why Tesla's plan is better than BMW's plan. Tesla's plan is optional. If it's unacceptable don't buy it. BMW's plan is factored into the price of the car. You're paying for it whether you use it or not. If you do DIY work or prefer an independent shop, now you're double paying.

I can only speak in terms of US dollars, but again the 330i which is the closest equivalent to the Model 3 starts at $38k, while the Model 3 starts at $35k.

I always prefer having the choice over having something forced on me.


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## ModFather (Apr 3, 2016)

arnis said:


> BMW offers all inclusive service (at least all inclusive in EU). And that definitely is not near 2000 pricepoint.


NOTHING is ever "free" The cost of goods and services is always factored in somewhere.


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2017)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I always prefer having the choice over having something forced on me.


You like the illusion of choice.. Actually you don't have a choice.
Stealerships take money in uncontrolled fashion (US specific problem). having service plan integrated into the price of the vehicle solves that problem.

Tesla recommended service is somewhat misguiding. You have to get new cabin air filter after a year or two. It's not a choice. If OEM solution is not expensive, why fight and DIY?
Brake fluid should be changed every 2-4 years. Though nothing will happen, on surface, but it must be changed.
Coolant should be changed. It's not your choice would you like it or not. You bought the vehicle you are RESPONSIBLE
for keeping it safe (road legal). There is no choice not to service the brakes even if it is not required by warranty.

Some say changing cabin air filter has nothing to do with vehicle's safety. Wrong. Some say changing wiper blades has nothing to do with safety.. Wrong. Some say lots of things. Most of them do not know the heck they talk about.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

arnis said:


> You like the illusion of choice.. Actually you don't have a choice.
> Stealerships take money in uncontrolled fashion (US specific problem). having service plan integrated into the price of the vehicle solves that problem.
> 
> Tesla recommended service is somewhat misguiding. You have to get new cabin air filter after a year or two. It's not a choice. If OEM solution is not expensive, why fight and DIY?
> ...


We will have to agree to disagree. If I'm not paying for it upfront of course I have a choice.


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## JRP3 (Jun 3, 2017)

arnis said:


> You have to get new cabin air filter after a year or two. It's not a choice. If OEM solution is not expensive, why fight and DIY?
> Brake fluid should be changed every 2-4 years. Though nothing will happen, on surface, but it must be changed.
> Coolant should be changed. It's not your choice would you like it or not. You bought the vehicle you are RESPONSIBLE
> for keeping it safe (road legal). There is no choice not to service the brakes even if it is not required by warranty.


I'm sorry but that is complete nonsense. I've gone far more than 2 years without changing a cabin air filter with no problems, I've had cars that never had a brake fluid change and never had an issue stopping, and even ICE's with much higher operating temperatures can go more than 5 years with no coolant change. The coolant in an EV should last even longer. Tesla's service recommendations are frankly ridiculous.


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2017)

Yes. And people can get along without visiting a dentist for 5 years and not losing any teeth.
Few examples mean nothing.
You can also not change secondary air filter on your vacuum cleaner and it will still suck.
You can also not change engine oil for 3-4 years and it will be fine.
You can also not change coolant for 5 years and it will be fine.

But you don't see things that really happen.
How much do you know about corrosion inhibitors, about mold or copper corrosion?
Vehicle, on average, lasts for 15-25 years.


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2017)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> We will have to agree to disagree. If I'm not paying for it upfront of course I have a choice.


Yes. Your choice is between paying for keeping it working or paying for making it work again after it breaks down.
So choice is between paying sooner and paying later. 
You can also get rid of the problem (car) before it breaks down. This is the most awesome way to deal with it.
Ruin it and then make it someone else's problem.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

arnis said:


> Yes. Your choice is between paying for keeping it working or paying for making it work again after it breaks down.
> So choice is between paying sooner and paying later.
> You can also get rid of the problem (car) before it breaks down. This is the most awesome way to deal with it.
> Ruin it and then make it someone else's problem.


I think you are making a very poor assumption.

Just because I am not prepaying Tesla for maintenance does not mean for a second that I not maintaining my car.


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## JRP3 (Jun 3, 2017)

arnis said:


> Few examples mean nothing.


Your examples are mostly ridiculous. I've had 15+ year old vehicles which were fine with minimal maintenance, as have many people I know. If you want to waste your time and money feel free, but I'm quite sure the Model 3 will not require the type of maintenance Tesla suggests for the Model S, which also doesn't actually require it.


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

Tone it down, fellas, tone it down, please...


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

garsh said:


> $110.00 07/2014 Purchased 17" wheels from an Infiniti G35 (craigslist)
> $50.00 08/2014 Front summer tires (craigslist)
> $171.94 08/2014 New rear summer tires
> $78.63 08/2014 Mount & Balance 4 summer tires


I also bought four TPMS sensors for $118.
So, $528.57 for summer tires & wheels.
I also bought two new tires for the front when those wore out ($143.58).

I just sold those wheels & tires on Craigslist for $250. Tires were shot. That pretty much covers the cost of the wheels & TPMS sensors. So not too bad as a little experiment.


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