# Messing With A Sports Car



## JasonF

Just wanted to post about something amusing that happened earlier today...

I was on a 2-lane road in a commercial park heading to work after picking up lunch, and I had a Camaro tailgating me impatiently since I entered the park, like they wanted to go faster. I couldn't do anything about it because I had a slow truck in front of me.

As soon as the truck turned right, I went Full Torque. I could see that poor Camaro struggling to catch up, but it never did.

And I don't even have a Performance or AWD model, just a RWD.

P.S. Please don't take this as encouragement to try this. I was taking a bit of a risk doing that, but I know it's extremely rare for speed checks to be on that road, it was a very short distance to the office, and that the businesses I passed aren't heavily trafficked during that time of day.


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## ADK46

This is the greatest forbidden joy of owning a Tesla. Not so forbidden, but still satisfying, is to just blip up to the speed limit. I detest tailgaters, especially in that situation. They have such narrow minds they think of cars as objects, forgetting there's a person inside. Nobody drives shopping carts that way.

I tell people that the accelerator is like a switch. You're going 20 and want to go 40? Boom, done. Instantly, compared to a modern vehicle I have - turbocharged, dual-clutch gearbox - nothing much happens until the turbo spools up and the gearbox finds its way from 5th down to 2nd.


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## Jay Jay

Yeah, I did something similar the other day. Truck was riding me hard in the passing lane on the highway, but I was already 5 over the limit and was still overtaking traffic on my right, so I stayed the course. So he pulled to the right lane to try and pass before the traffic ahead of us got in the way. Well, I tapped the accelerator and rocketed past it all, forcing him to get back behind me...lololol. He didn't like that much and rode me like an ICEhole until I calmly got over after passing the 6 cars on my right. lol...funny stuff.


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## Johnston

Jay Jay said:


> Yeah, I did something similar the other day. Truck was riding me hard in the passing lane on the highway, but I was already 5 over the limit and was still overtaking traffic on my right, so I stayed the course. So he pulled to the right lane to try and pass before the traffic ahead of us got in the way. Well, I tapped the accelerator and rocketed past it all, forcing him to get back behind me...lololol. He didn't like that much and rode me like an ICEhole until I calmly got over after passing the 6 cars on my right. lol...funny stuff.


If you're at 5 over in the left lane and there's a car tight behind you wanting to pass, you should let him pass. Just scoot over when you pass the traffic on your right and come right back behind the truck. To speed up once he's getting ready to finally pass you on your right makes the matter even worse.


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## Johnston

JasonF said:


> Just wanted to post about something amusing that happened earlier today...
> 
> I was on a 2-lane road in a commercial park heading to work after picking up lunch, and I had a Camaro tailgating me impatiently since I entered the park, like they wanted to go faster. I couldn't do anything about it because I had a slow truck in front of me.
> 
> As soon as the truck turned right, I went Full Torque. I could see that poor Camaro struggling to catch up, but it never did.
> 
> And I don't even have a Performance or AWD model, just a RWD.
> 
> P.S. Please don't take this as encouragement to try this. I was taking a bit of a risk doing that, but I know it's extremely rare for speed checks to be on that road, it was a very short distance to the office, and that the businesses I passed aren't heavily trafficked during that time of day.


Kinda don't think the disclaimer is necessary at all.


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## Jay Jay

Johnston said:


> If you're at 5 over in the left lane and there's a car tight behind you wanting to pass, you should let him pass. Just scoot over when you pass the traffic on your right and come right back behind the truck. To speed up once he's getting ready to finally pass you on your right makes the matter even worse.


Normally, yes. But this was 5 over in a 75 and I was still gaining on the traffic to the right. So, I was still passing. There was ZERO reason to be riding my ass. I sped up because he was going to get close to the traffic ahead of him, and then cut over to get in front of me, forcing me to slow and putting everyone in a dangerous situation just to get one more car length ahead. I put a stop to that crap and got out ahead of the whole mess.


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## Dan D

While we're on the subject of behaving badly and abusing our instant torque/acceleration...

The other week a man in a *CHEESY* late-80's Corvette decided he was going to pass me on a double-yellow 30mph residential back road. When he got along side, I punched it to the point where he knew his macho plan wasn't going to work out and he backed off and got back in behind me. He stayed a reasonable distance behind me for the next few miles until he turned off. I am not proud of my actions as it was pretty dangerous and I won't say what MPH I got up to when I essentially overtook his attempted over-taking. But holy crap that gave me a rush that lasted all day. Santa didn't seem to mind. I still got Horizon Forza 4 in my stocking.


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## MelindaV

Dan D said:


> While we're on the subject of behaving badly and abusing our instant torque/acceleration...
> 
> The other week a man in a *CHEESY* late-80's Corvette decided he was going to pass me on a double-yellow 30mph residential back road. When he got along side, I punched it to the point where he knew his macho plan wasn't going to work out and he backed off and got back in behind me. He stayed a reasonable distance behind me for the next few miles until he turned off. I am not proud of my actions as it was pretty dangerous and I won't say what MPH I got up to when I essentially overtook his attempted over-taking. But holy crap that gave me a rush that lasted all day. Santa didn't seem to mind. I still got Horizon Forza 4 in my stocking.


that reminded me of an incident in my prior car (Turbo Pontiac Solstice). the main street between my neighborhood and freeway is 4 lanes, 40MPH street with few intersections. People often are going 50+ and acting as if you are holding them up if you are going between 40-45. There was a young girl in a crappy 15 year old honda following me in the right hand lane and other cars in the left lane. I could tell she was thinking we all should be going faster and could see her waving her arms in my rear view mirror. At one point the left lane was empty and she swirved into it and started to speed up to pass me. I accelerated just slightly and could see her honda was pretty much maxed out (which wasn't even close to what my car could do). She eventually gave up and got back over in the right lane and turned at the next intersection.


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## Wooloomooloo

Johnston said:


> If you're at 5 over in the left lane and there's a car tight behind you wanting to pass, you should let him pass. Just scoot over when you pass the traffic on your right and come right back behind the truck. To speed up once he's getting ready to finally pass you on your right makes the matter even worse.


Agreed - the other thing is when passing traffic on the left, don't be stubborn and stick to your 'cruise' speed as you crawl past the truck or whatever. I've noticed more and more people just sit in the right lane overtaking things at 1mph, assuming that the speed they've chosen is the speed everyone else should do.

Accelerate past the vehicle you're overtaking, and move back over.

PS - not assuming the OP was doing this, but it is extremely common.


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## Jay79

I find people being overly aggressive every since I bought this car, like they are trying to prove something to me. I foil their plans time and time again when they are trying to be overly aggressive in their driving maneuvers, its kinda comical. I'll hear their motor screaming and by the time their car finally makes a downshift I'm already 3 cars in front of them....lol 

The tailgating is what confuses me, I'll be going 10-15 over in the fast land and I'll get some clown in a muscle car just ride my ass even though I'm overtaking the other lanes at my rate of speed. I had this happen recently so I just punched it and left him like he was standing still, 10 seconds later he made a lane change and is full throttling it passed me, or at least he tried...lol


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## Lardog

I used to be that clown in a muscle car.....my previous car was a 2013 Mustang GT....it was stupid fast, loud as hell and I drove it like a douchebag at times (I"m considering this a confessional moment, not gloating). Now that I'm driving my M3, I notice I drive so much more calmly (sanely) than before, especially on the freeway when I just double-click into AP heaven, just above the speed limit and stay in my lane 

I have benefitted from the M3's instant torque a handful of times but, to quote the Eagles, I generally just "Take it Easy" now.


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## Johnston

Personally I move out of the left lane whenever there's a car close behind me, regardless of how fast I"m already going over the speed limit. I just move back after they've gone past.

To me, the left lane is the passing lane. Even while I'm passing others, if someone is looking to pass me, I move and let them. Where else are they supposed to pass? I'm definitely not encouraging safe driving forcing them to slow down. All that would do is induce road rage and even more erratic behavior out of them.


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## JasonF

Wooloomooloo said:


> PS - not assuming the OP was doing this, but it is extremely common.


Absolutely not, I hate when people do that! The road I was on is one lane in each direction, double yellow in the center, and I had a slow truck in front of me. The Camaro was tailgating me like it was _my_ fault!

Last Sunday I actually watched someone do that to a cop. Driver saw the cop approaching fast, and decided he had a duty to slow the cop down. So they drove slow in the left lane in front of the cop, and when the cop tried to go around on the right, he moved over and blocked. Then did the same thing again back to the left. Finally, the cop pulled him over, and I had no sympathy for that kind of stupid.


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## Wooloomooloo

JasonF said:


> Last Sunday I actually watched someone do that to a cop. Driver saw the cop approaching fast, and decided he had a duty to slow the cop down. So they drove slow in the left lane in front of the cop, and when the cop tried to go around on the right, he moved over and blocked. Then did the same thing again back to the left. Finally, the cop pulled him over, and I had no sympathy for that kind of stupid.


Speaking of cops - last week on my way back from a long road trip, I was in Indiana and was on a two-lane highway looking to pass a truck. Another truck pulled out and I back off letting him go, then another. So now there's two trucks overtaking a truck, and behind me I noticed a Chrysler muscle car right behind me. I switched the rear cam on to see how close he was, and I'd guess he was 8 - 10 feet behind me (we're doing maybe 65mph in a 75 zone behind the trucks).

My instinct in this situation is to make sure I don't sit along side the truck being overtaken until it's clear in front, in case they swerve or decide they need to pull out, so I waited for the two trucks in front to clear him and pull in, by which time this guy is literally 6 feet off my tail. I could pretty much see the dimples on his face. As soon as it was clear, I floored it shot past all 3 trucks (I think I hit 94 before letting go) leaving him way behind, and then immediately pulled in and settled back to 75.

The twist? He flew past me a few seconds later, and flashed his red/blue lights briefly before speeding off. It was a freaking cop!


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## MelindaV

Jay79 said:


> I find people being overly aggressive every since I bought this car, like they are trying to prove something to me. I foil their plans time and time again when they are trying to be overly aggressive in their driving maneuvers


or are you being overly aggressive toward them?


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## Wooloomooloo

MelindaV said:


> or are you being overly aggressive toward them?


I think people have different ideas about what being 'aggressive' on the road is. A few posts above, you described a situation where you were in the right lane, with the left lane clear, and a car tried to pass you in that lane and you increased speed to stop them.

Some people would say the car passing on the left is being aggressive, some might say the car deliberately blocking the right hand lane when the left is clear is aggressive, most would agree that speeding up to stop someone passing is either aggressive or at least mildly immature.

I'll be the first to admit I've done all of the above at some point or another in my life, so I don't want to be too much of a hypocrite, but I feel slightly embarrassed about it now. I do still pass on the left if the car hasn't moved over after it's had plenty of time to do so.


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## MelindaV

Wooloomooloo said:


> I think people have different ideas about what being 'aggressive' on the road is. A few posts above, you described a situation where you were in the right lane, with the left lane clear, and a car tried to pass you in that lane and you increased speed to stop them.


oh, I fully take credit for being aggressive then.


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## Wooloomooloo

MelindaV said:


> oh, I fully take credit for being aggressive then.


haha - maybe assertive is a more positive word?


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## JasonF

Wooloomooloo said:


> The twist? He flew past me a few seconds later, and flashed his red/blue lights briefly before speeding off. It was a freaking cop!


Funny you should mention that, because I left part of the story out to keep it short. While that really stupid driver was dueling with the cop, I decided initially that I didn't want any part of that mess, and tried to accelerate past it. The cop nudged over to the right a little like "don't you dare pass". I still managed to leave that mess behind by taking one exit earlier than I intended, and it just so happened to be at the same moment when the cop turned on his overhead lights (behind the car that was dueling with him).

At the time, I assumed the "nudge" was because he didn't want me in the way when he was trying to pull the car over. That's why I exited (quite suddenly, mind you, because I had the split second opportunity to do so) - to avoid the sudden slowdown that comes with someone being pulled over.

But after exiting, I did quietly wonder if that "nudge" was because the cop intended to block me in and pull _me_ over as well, and I robbed him of the opportunity by exiting suddenly. I wouldn't know what for, but sometimes you never know - I could have been the original target from something I did way back behind us before that other driver pissed him off. If so, I guess it's fortunate he was mad enough at the other driver that he didn't go down the exit ramp after me!


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## FRC

Today, while traveling on a two-lane country road, a cop was tailgating me for about 10-12 miles. While I was travelling 6-8 miles over the limit(in a 55 zone), he came barreling up behind me to about 1 1/2 car lengths back and stayed there. I slowed to 3-4 over and he never attempted to pass nor did he ever back off. Any other car and I would have put the P3D ZOOM on him and left him behind. Didn't seem wise under the circumstances. I guess I should have turned off early somewhere, but I was too busy being irritated.


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## Johnston

JasonF said:


> Absolutely not, I hate when people do that! The road I was on is one lane in each direction, double yellow in the center, and I had a slow truck in front of me. The Camaro was tailgating me like it was _my_ fault!
> 
> Last Sunday I actually watched someone do that to a cop. Driver saw the cop approaching fast, and decided he had a duty to slow the cop down. So they drove slow in the left lane in front of the cop, and when the cop tried to go around on the right, he moved over and blocked. Then did the same thing again back to the left. Finally, the cop pulled him over, and I had no sympathy for that kind of stupid.


Similar thing happened on way to work. Slow driver hogging left lane, eventually a cop going fast was behind him waiting for him to move. Never did even after being tightly tailed by cop for at least a full minute. He might've even slowed down to avoid speeding ticket, after 4 cars passed him on right.

Cop finally turned on flashers and dumbass thought he was getting pulled over and moved left to shoulder. Cop sped right past him.

Hate these morons, cop should have pulled him over and teach him some road manners. Had absolutely no clue about passing lanes.


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## garsh

Johnston said:


> Cop finally turned on flashers and dumbass thought he was getting pulled over and *moved left to shoulder.*


Ugh! What idiots pull onto the left shoulder?


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## MelindaV

garsh said:


> Ugh! What idiots pull onto the left shoulder?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1083354350448201730


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## jdcollins5

Mustang owners around here seem to know about the Model3 reputation. I have them pulling up beside me and then “goosing” it. This is in 45 mph city traffic. A couple of times we have ended up at the front at a stop light. On green they have floored it and I will keep up with them just off of their rear bumper. Just before we get too far above SL I will pull up to their front bumper just before slowing down to let them know I have something left.😀


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## Jay Jay

jdcollins5 said:


> Mustang owners around here seem to know about the Model3 reputation. I have them pulling up beside me and then "goosing" it. This is in 45 mph city traffic. A couple of times we have ended up at the front at a stop light. On green they have floored it and I will keep up with them just off of their rear bumper. Just before we get too far above SL I will pull up to their front bumper just before slowing down to let them know I have something left.😀


Yep, Mustangs, Camero, but mostly Audi's and BWM's. I even had a Lambo SUV flex at me on the freeway in SLC. I thought it was funny...I'm like, yeah, I'm fast, but not 3.2 to 60 fast.


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## iChris93

MelindaV said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1083354350448201730


Where is this story? @SoFlaModel3


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## Defjukie

Johnston said:


> Personally I move out of the left lane whenever there's a car close behind me, regardless of how fast I"m already going over the speed limit. I just move back after they've gone past.
> 
> To me, the left lane is the passing lane. Even while I'm passing others, if someone is looking to pass me, I move and let them. Where else are they supposed to pass? I'm definitely not encouraging safe driving forcing them to slow down. All that would do is induce road rage and even more erratic behavior out of them.


It's not just the passing lane to you, it's actually the law. What you described is exactly the way it's intended to be used. Shame 95% of drivers don't understand this.


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## Johnston

Defjukie said:


> It's not just the passing lane to you, it's actually the law. What you described is exactly the way it's intended to be used. Shame 95% of drivers don't understand this.


Makes me wonder what they teach at drivers' ed these days.


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## SoFlaModel3

iChris93 said:


> Where is this story? @SoFlaModel3


So I got pulled over for failure to move over with an officer having pulled someone over up ahead.

He asked for license and registration.

I asked politely what I had done. I was doing 72 in a 70 so I knew it wasn't a speeding ticket.

He asked if I knew about the Move Over Law and I said yes.

He walked away with my info and went over to his computer.

I stuck my arm out of the window and asked for him to come back.

When he returned, I explained politely that while I understand the move over law, I had no opportunity to act on it and used my best judgement to keep everyone around me safe. I explained to the officer that pulled me over that he was in my blind spot and getting over was unsafe for him. I also explained that the person behind me was following closely and the person in front of me had a taller truck and that mixed with coming over an elevated part of the road made it impossible for me to do anything but gradually slow. I explained I knew the law was move over or reduce to 20 MPH below the speed limit, but used my best judgement to slow a little, make sure I had a firm grasp on the wheel, but did not risk an accident for myself, the officer that pulled me over, or the car behind me.

He waked back to his motorcycle.

He returned with my ID and sent me on my way without a citation!

If I needed it, the dash cam footage would have validated my description from the front. Now having rear and side/rear view included would be ideal. Fortunately it wasn't needed since the officer appreciated how I described the events.


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## JasonF

SoFlaModel3 said:


> He returned with my ID and sent me on my way without a citation!


The cop probably picked you because keeping your speed steady and not moving over looks a lot like you have Autopilot on and aren't paying attention. Then you demonstrated that you knew everything that was going on at the time, so he gave up and moved on.


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## Metz123

FRC said:


> Today, while traveling on a two-lane country road, a cop was tailgating me for about 10-12 miles. While I was travelling 6-8 miles over the limit(in a 55 zone), he came barreling up behind me to about 1 1/2 car lengths back and stayed there. I slowed to 3-4 over and he never attempted to pass nor did he ever back off. Any other car and I would have put the P3D ZOOM on him and left him behind. Didn't seem wise under the circumstances. I guess I should have turned off early somewhere, but I was too busy being irritated.


I have no issues putting the cruise control exactly at the speed limit in this situation and make the cop pass you or drive the speed limit himself. Unless he's responding to an emergency, he shouldn't be barreling up on anyone. For me, I save the instant torque of the Model 3 for getting past people on the mountain pass roads I drive frequently. Nothing worse than having a great cruise through some wonderful scenery and twisty mountain roads ruined by a Prius or an RV chugging along below the limits. It's great to know it's there if needed but I've learned to tame the inner lead foot on my daily commute ( audio books are a great help ).


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## Defjukie

JasonF said:


> The cop probably picked you because keeping your speed steady and not moving over looks a lot like you have Autopilot on and aren't paying attention. Then you demonstrated that you knew everything that was going on at the time, so he gave up and moved on.


highly doubtful he's even aware of what Autopilot is.


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## Johnston

Metz123 said:


> I have no issues putting the cruise control exactly at the speed limit in this situation and make the cop pass you or drive the speed limit himself. Unless he's responding to an emergency, he shouldn't be barreling up on anyone. For me, I save the instant torque of the Model 3 for getting past people on the mountain pass roads I drive frequently. Nothing worse than having a great cruise through some wonderful scenery and twisty mountain roads ruined by a Prius or an RV chugging along below the limits. It's great to know it's there if needed but I've learned to tame the inner lead foot on my daily commute ( audio books are a great help ).


Some cops will barrel up on you regardless of whether it was an emergency, really in your best interest to just move out of his way and move back as traffic allows.


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## JasonF

Metz123 said:


> I have no issues putting the cruise control exactly at the speed limit in this situation and make the cop pass you or drive the speed limit himself.





Johnston said:


> Some cops will barrel up on you regardless of whether it was an emergency, really in your best interest to just move out of his way and move back as traffic allows.


There is a highly subjective traffic law in most states for "Obstructing Traffic". If you make a cop angry and frustrated enough, they might just ticket you for that.

Additionally, drunk drivers often drive at the speed limit or below, when they're aware that they might be drunk, to avoid getting stopped by police. The police know that, and might pull you over for doing that to do a roadside sobriety test.

Sometimes they're just jerks who are baiting you to go faster, and as soon as you hit 1 mph over the limit, on go the strobes.

Or sometimes they might just turn their strobes on just to get you to pull over so they can go past.

In any case, if it looks like you can't win by going slow _or_ speeding up, it's best to get out of the way to avoid getting stuck with a massive waste of time and resources. Just do it where it's safe, if you pull over onto a soft shoulder (grass/gravel) to let them pass, they just might follow to find out if you have a guilty conscience.


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## Nautilus

garsh said:


> Ugh! What idiots pull onto the left shoulder?


Here in Indiana, the state troopers seem to prefer pulling cars over into the left breakdown lane on the interstate, certainly I-465 around Indy. Several years ago when I was pulled over, I started signalling to go from the left lane across several lanes to the right break-down lane and the trooper gestured quite emphatically for me to pull over to the left. So I reversed course and did as I was told.

I can actually see some logic to this. To his left, the trooper has the protection of the cement center barrier, even when talking to me through my driver's window. To his right he has the protection of his car, then my car. There are too many cases of troopers getting hit by careless drivers during traffic stops (hence the "move over" laws.

Semi trucks seem to get pulled over to the right breakdown lane, then the trooper goes over to the passenger door to speak to the driver. Some stops of cars are to the right breakdown lane as well, but then they also go to the passenger door. I noticed the other evening passing a traffic stop that the trooper also walks around the rear of their car to get to the passenger side, presumably so the other driver can't slam it in reverse and crush them between the two cars. Unfortunately, many Standard Operating Procedures are written in the blood of those that came before.

BTW, I really hate it when a police car comes up and tailgates me when I'm doing the speed limit (especially if there is no where for me to get out of the way). It's unsafe. If they're responding to an emergency, have your flashing lights on and I'll figure out how to get out of the way.


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## Jarettp

Johnston said:


> Similar thing happened on way to work. Slow driver hogging left lane, eventually a cop going fast was behind him waiting for him to move. Never did even after being tightly tailed by cop for at least a full minute. He might've even slowed down to avoid speeding ticket, after 4 cars passed him on right.
> 
> Cop finally turned on flashers and dumbass thought he was getting pulled over and moved left to shoulder. Cop sped right past him.
> 
> Hate these morons, cop should have pulled him over and teach him some road manners. Had absolutely no clue about passing lanes.


They would have gotten pulled over for that in Virginia.


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## garsh

Nautilus said:


> I can actually see some logic to this. To his left, the trooper has the protection of the cement center barrier, even when talking to me through my driver's window. To his right he has the protection of his car, then my car. There are too many cases of troopers getting hit by careless drivers during traffic stops (hence the "move over" laws.


That's true. But now the lane beside you has faster-moving traffic. I wonder if a study has been done to determine which is safer for troopers?

In PA, the left shoulder usually isn't as wide as the right shoulder. That might make a difference as well.


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## Love

Johnston said:


> Makes me wonder what they teach at drivers' ed these days.


Certainly aren't teaching anyone what a YIELD sign is anymore... can't even begin to count the times I've had someone on an on ramp not even looking and I'm in the "slow lane" with nowhere to go. Sure I can brake (and do)... and sure I can let them in (and do) so not trying to get a back and forth started here... just pointing out that people just come flying on without even a glance in their mirrors/blind spot anymore. YIELD DAMNIT!

Also, to stay on topic, I've not messed with a sports car but did have an SUV try to pass me in a right hand lane (that was ending) as I was only going slow waiting for my lane to clear as people moved into a turn lane... it's a common problem in this area, people start slowing down to move to the turn lane to then make a left into a grocery store. The impatient, and I've been guilty of doing this, will swerve around the traffic to the right lane to pass them all. 
Well... the traffic cleared and the SUV just to my blind spot, making noise like it was drinking a gallon of gas per second with conviction to pass me. One slight press on my accelerator, not even half way down and... bye bye. Also, no... don't do that Mr. SUV.


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## JasonF

Lovesword said:


> Also, to stay on topic, I've not messed with a sports car but did have an SUV try to pass me in a right hand lane (that was ending) as I was only going slow waiting for my lane to clear as people moved into a turn lane.


That may seem only annoying, but I know for a fact it's 100% illegal, and you _can_ get a ticket for it. Usually the cops are too lazy to ticket for that, but if you get one that's motivated enough, you will.

How do I know that? Years ago, I drove by a school late in the evening that was having some kind of event. They were on an island-divided road, and there was a short left turn lane leading in, so people were backed up into the road's left lane. I went over to the right to go around them, but then I had to turn left at the next block (the main intersection), so I moved back over after I was past the school.

I never made it to that next left turn. The cop that was parked on top of the island, I thought was there for traffic direction into the school, pulled me over and ticketed me for passing illegally on the right. I actually asked him how I was supposed to get around the line, and he suggested either I wait in line until it's clear, or move over to the right and continue straight through the next intersection so it's not "passing".


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## Love

JasonF said:


> That may seem only annoying, but I know for a fact it's 100% illegal, and you _can_ get a ticket for it. Usually the cops are too lazy to ticket for that, but if you get one that's motivated enough, you will.
> 
> How do I know that? Years ago, I drove by a school late in the evening that was having some kind of event. They were on an island-divided road, and there was a short left turn lane leading in, so people were backed up into the road's left lane. I went over to the right to go around them, but then I had to turn left at the next block (the main intersection), so I moved back over after I was past the school.
> 
> I never made it to that next left turn. The cop that was parked on top of the island, I thought was there for traffic direction into the school, pulled me over and ticketed me for passing illegally on the right. I actually asked him how I was supposed to get around the line, and he suggested either I wait in line until it's clear, or move over to the right and continue straight through the next intersection so it's not "passing".


Whoa, didn't know that it was illegal. Good to know, thank you!


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## KWATTSN

JasonF said:


> How do I know that? Years ago, I drove by a school late in the evening that was having some kind of event. They were on an island-divided road, and there was a short left turn lane leading in, so people were backed up into the road's left lane. I went over to the right to go around them, but then I had to turn left at the next block (the main intersection), so I moved back over after I was past the school.
> 
> I never made it to that next left turn. The cop that was parked on top of the island, I thought was there for traffic direction into the school, pulled me over and ticketed me for passing illegally on the right. I actually asked him how I was supposed to get around the line, and he suggested either I wait in line until it's clear, or move over to the right and continue straight through the next intersection so it's not "passing".


That scenario sounds strange to me, so I googled the relevant FL code (assuming this happened in FL), and the officer was wrong to ticket you from how I read it, unless you went off-road to do it:

316.084 When overtaking on the right is permitted.-
(1) The driver of a vehicle may overtake and pass on the right of another vehicle only under the following conditions:316.084 When overtaking on the right is permitted.-
(1) The driver of a vehicle may overtake and pass on the right of another vehicle only under the following conditions:
* (a) When the vehicle overtaken is making or about to make a left turn;*
(b) Upon a street or highway with unobstructed pavement not occupied by parked vehicles of sufficient width for two or more lines of moving traffic in each direction;
(c) Upon a one-way street, or upon any roadway on which traffic is restricted to one direction of movement, where the roadway is free from obstructions and of sufficient width for two or more lines of moving vehicles.
(2) The driver of a vehicle may overtake and pass another vehicle on the right only under conditions permitting such movement in safety. In no event shall such movement be made by driving off the pavement or main-traveled portion of the roadway.


----------



## JasonF

The ticket itself was for "unsafe passing on the right", which is impossible to fight without video, and I didn't have a dashcam then.

And the cop was pretty angry, so I'm guessing I was one of a long line of people who passed, perhaps more impatiently, on the right, and he decided the next person who does it is getting a ticket.


----------



## fritter63

I have to admit I had a little fun with a Nissan 300Z awhile back on 166. I'd already passed them a ways back, then they suddenly came zooming up on me and tailgating. When we got to the dedicated passing lane that is here:

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.0033669,-119.4156794,1436m/data=!3m1!1e3

I moved over to the right to let him pass, But even at 60 mph he either couldn't or wouldn't pass, just hung right on my left rear fender through the curve. So in the middle of that curve when it straightened, I punched it and left him far behind.

It was the last time he got within 500 yards of us...... 

I recommend everyone just get that out of their system quickly and learn some self control.


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## alienranch

I’ve owned a C6 and C7 Corvette, a GT-R and two Gen 5 Vipers. Countless other sports cars prior to those. All that being said, nothing puts a smile on my face more than punching the P3D. God bless that instant torque!


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## enigmata

LOL. One of the first times I ran into sport car envy was from a Ford Mustang in Glendale, in the evening at the onramp here: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/34.1559671,-118.2546178

I'm making a right turn, he's making a left, and he's just behind me on the turn. It's all clear on the ramp and I punch it. Just as I do, I hear a huge roar as he nearly comes alongside.

In the rearview, I see he makes decent progress accelerating but falls back every time he shifts. I merge on successfully at 75 and turn on autopilot and stay in the right lane. Several seconds later he overtakes me in a huff.


----------



## JasonF

KWATTSN said:


> That scenario sounds strange to me, so I googled the relevant FL code (assuming this happened in FL), and the officer was wrong to ticket you from how I read it, unless you went off-road to do it:


Sorry I missed this post up there. What made it impossible to fight that ticket is that tickets don't have context. If it says I passed on the right illegally, I would have to prove I did it safely, and until then it would be my word against the cop's. I didn't have a dashcam at the time, so I was at the mercy of the wording on the ticket. And I might have been caught off guard by some nuance of motor vehicle code having to do with passing in a school zone (even though it was after school hours), or in an area with a paved island.

Even more difficult, in some courts (I don't know about FL, but in OH where I used to live, they do this) your only defense is technicalities, because they consider a driver signed ticket to be accepted evidence by both parties. So if you get a speeding ticket, you can argue that the cop was mistaken about the details, but you can't argue you weren't speeding, because when you signed the ticket, you agreed to the infraction of speeding. I know, it's a trap, because you go to jail if you don't sign - they have a nice racket going with that in Ohio. The idea is your only way to win is to get the "agreed to" charge dismissed because some of the details were incorrect.


----------



## Gavyne

It's a Tesla thing to not allow others to overtake us 

I do regret it sometimes, because I've seen myself go way over the speed limit doing this. On the freeway here in CA speed limit is 65, and usually people drive 80 in the fast lane. Every once in awhile you got someone who wants to go faster, they'll tailgate and weave in & out of lanes without signaling. I get people wanting to push you if there are no cars in the front, they want you to yield. But when there are cars already in the front and you can't go faster, then I just can't stand tailgaters. I caught myself going over 90 a few times trying to not allow these aholes to bully me, but then regret going that fast because that's simply unsafe. My conscious keeps reminding me that I would be at fault if I got into a car accident or caused harm to others.

So I'm here to say the unpopular, sometimes it's better to just swallow that pride and yield for the safety of you and others. Don't be as bad as them. If it's safe for you to punch it and make their manhood shrink, then go for it. But if you're already at the limits of what would be considered safe, then it's not worth it. I'm wiling to go 15 or sometimes 20 over the speed limit if that's what the traffic flow is doing. Anything over that, I'm breaching that safety limit.

On local streets, I recommend to most to just let someone pass if they're in a hurry. It's not worth the safety of pedestrians and bikers. So many bikers/cyclists die because drivers are distracted or going over the speed limit. They're hard to see in the first place, even worse when you're driving too fast on local streets. But that instant torque, launching at the stoplight up to the speed limit +10, very satisfying


----------



## foo

Johnston said:


> Personally I move out of the left lane whenever there's a car close behind me, regardless of how fast I"m already going over the speed limit. I just move back after they've gone past.
> 
> To me, the left lane is the passing lane. Even while I'm passing others, if someone is looking to pass me, I move and let them. Where else are they supposed to pass? I'm definitely not encouraging safe driving forcing them to slow down. All that would do is induce road rage and even more erratic behavior out of them.


I agree... and as an added benefit, when you let them pass, they will go forth and collect the highway patrol from their hiding spots... lol


----------



## JasonF

Gavyne said:


> It's a Tesla thing to not allow others to overtake us


It's not so much that as I really don't like being tailgated. I've been in a few really bad rear-end crashes. So I try to either make more room by speeding up, or move over if I can, or if they really won't leave me alone, I squeeze through a gap and get them stuck so they can't follow anymore. 

The event that started this whole thread (if you remember) was that a Camaro was driving right on top of me and occasionally trying to pass across double yellow because there was a slow truck in front of me.



Gavyne said:


> I do regret it sometimes, because I've seen myself go way over the speed limit doing this. On the freeway here in CA speed limit is 65, and usually people drive 80 in the fast lane.


If it makes you feel better, the cops usually don't go all the way to the front of the line to get the lead car. They usually pick off whoever is at the end. 

There's a stretch of 417 in Orlando just north of the airport where _average_ speeds are just over 100 mph during the day. That road really _is_ scary, because it's two lanes and has low visibility, so you have slow vehicles that suddenly appear out of nowhere.


----------



## PowerfromNature

Lovesword said:


> Certainly aren't teaching anyone what a YIELD sign is anymore... can't even begin to count the times I've had someone on an on ramp not even looking and I'm in the "slow lane" with nowhere to go. Sure I can brake (and do)... and sure I can let them in (and do) so not trying to get a back and forth started here... just pointing out that people just come flying on without even a glance in their mirrors/blind spot anymore. YIELD DAMNIT!
> 
> Also, to stay on topic, I've not messed with a sports car but did have an SUV try to pass me in a right hand lane (that was ending) as I was only going slow waiting for my lane to clear as people moved into a turn lane... it's a common problem in this area, people start slowing down to move to the turn lane to then make a left into a grocery store. The impatient, and I've been guilty of doing this, will swerve around the traffic to the right lane to pass them all.
> Well... the traffic cleared and the SUV just to my blind spot, making noise like it was drinking a gallon of gas per second with conviction to pass me. One slight press on my accelerator, not even half way down and... bye bye. Also, no... don't do that Mr. SUV.


That is true, I had a Corvette and now have a Raptor still looking for which Model 3 I want and these idiots that are supposed to yield think they can push a 7000+ truck out of the way so they do not have to yield. And I can't move for them if there is traffic.


----------



## MrMannilow

Dan D said:


> The other week a man in a *CHEESY* late-80's Corvette decided he was going to pass me on a double-yellow 30mph residential back road.


Did this to an older guy with his son(8-10yrs old) in a early 90s Vette with my G37x Infiniti sedan...felt kinda bad for the kid lol

Speaking of that I pulled my 370z out of winter storage today. God I missed the noises and pops and tire squeal of some fat 285s not quite warm enough to induce some counter steer. Can't wait until I get my 3 back from service to do some "scientific testing" between the two.

Anyone who says they've had fast sportcars vettes vipers etc and you don't miss it then I'm doubting you had any business owning one in the first place


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## Jim Brown

I wrote this in a different thread a while back. But it seems good for here too. 

I was sitting at a traffic light waiting for it to turn green. There was a guy in a Cadillac Escalade next to me. When the light turned green we both started to pull away. All of a sudden he punches it like he's trying to race me. In my head I'm thinking, "Dude! Are you serious?" It's the only time I've ever done this, but I pushed about halfway down on my accelerator and went from about 15 mph to 50 in about a second or two. He was in my rear view mirror in no time. I slowed down to the 45 mph speed limit and waited for him to catch up. He didn't. I have to admit, it was a good feeling. But an Escalade?!? Really? I have no idea what he was thinking.


----------



## StromTrooperM3

Jim Brown said:


> There was a guy in a Cadillac Escalade next to me. When the light turned green we both started to pull away. All of a sudden he punches it


I think a lot of people are genuinely interested in seeing how fast these cars really are. I had an older gentleman in a Subaru keep giving me thumbs up while we did 3 rolling pulls in a row. He knew after the first one he had no chance but he seemed to quite enjoy seeing me do it again and again haha. But then again maybe the Caddy driver was just trolling...either way i never need someone to give me a reason to punch it lol


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## VoltageDrop

Jim Brown said:


> I wrote this in a different thread a while back. But it seems good for here too.
> 
> I was sitting at a traffic light waiting for it to turn green. There was a guy in a Cadillac Escalade next to me. When the light turned green we both started to pull away. All of a sudden he punches it like he's trying to race me. In my head I'm thinking, "Dude! Are you serious?" It's the only time I've ever done this, but I pushed about halfway down on my accelerator and went from about 15 mph to 50 in about a second or two. He was in my rear view mirror in no time. I slowed down to the 45 mph speed limit and waited for him to catch up. He didn't. I have to admit, it was a good feeling. But an Escalade?!? Really? I have no idea what he was thinking.


I think the same thing at times......I would not pull up to a GTR in say a Corolla and attempt to out accelerate it onto an on-ramp......that being said....I like to give free lessons in "torque etiquette" to those most deserving of it....


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## JasonF

StromTrooperM3 said:


> I think a lot of people are genuinely interested in seeing how fast these cars really are. I had an older gentleman in a Subaru keep giving me thumbs up while we did 3 rolling pulls in a row. He knew after the first one he had no chance but he seemed to quite enjoy seeing me do it again and again haha. But then again maybe the Caddy driver was just trolling...either way i never need someone to give me a reason to punch it lol


(To Everyone) Be very careful when you see that, because occasionally someone next to you punching it means they want to get into the lane you're in. Sometimes they'll get frustrated when you're accelerating next to them, and just shove their way over - which is _really_ dangerous at high speeds.


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## StromTrooperM3

JasonF said:


> Sometimes they'll get frustrated when you're accelerating next to them, and just shove their way over - which is _really_ dangerous at high speeds.


I had an older gentleman in a Subaru keep giving me thumbs.. for clarity he made it known he was looking and interested at the car first before he tried to scoot off...both lanes ahead of us were clear with no areas for a turn off

But yes don't show off for the sake of anyones safety


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## MelindaV

or that car next to you could be police in an unmarked car.


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## JasonF

MelindaV said:


> or that car next to you could be police in an unmarked car.


Funny story related to that: When I first picked up the M3, I tried out the acceleration in my neighborhood's entrance road. It's very straight, 3 lanes wide, no island, and not much activity at 1:30 pm Friday (pickup appt was noon). It's not a long road, though, so it had just enough to get up to 60 for a split second in the M3 and then you're on the brakes quick before you get to the roundabout.

So I get up to about 60 with no one around, braking for the roundabout, and a cop pulls up to the stop sign on the side street just before the roundabout. There was no way he couldn't see what I was doing. But he didn't chase me. It was kind of a "you know I know what you were doing so let's just pretend it didn't happen" kind of thing.


----------



## theblindtree

I have had so many bouts of people edging me out or trying to ride my tail to push me along. I personally just find it funny as long as I don't feel they're being reckless. The problem is that they often choose the most inopportune times to do so. All lanes congested and rubbernecked, etc. Sometimes I oblige if only because of my aggressively defensive nature (or if I feel like a good show), other times I'm just cruising trying to get home safely. Doesn't mean it's not fun to kick up pavement every once in a while though (which my girlfriend HATES).

I really should invest in one those "This isn't even the fast one" stickers.


----------



## Protect1989

I had an Audi pull up next to me yesterday and clearly wanted to push it. He would gun it at the light and then we would meet up again at the next signal. 

I had my pup in the backseat who hasn’t experienced the acceleration the model 3 has yet. I figured preventing the pup from peeing out of fear is far superior then putting an Audi in its place lol.


----------



## VoltageDrop

Protect1989 said:


> I had an Audi pull up next to me yesterday and clearly wanted to push it. He would gun it at the light and then we would meet up again at the next signal.
> 
> I had my pup in the backseat who hasn't experienced the acceleration the model 3 has yet. I figured preventing the pup from peeing out of fear is far superior then putting an Audi in its place lol.


Hmmmmm.....I wonder......how about you put the pup in the back of the Audi......taught the Audi a lesson.....and at the next light take the pup back.....hopefully the pup would have left a gift in the back of the Audi (I think the Audi would be able to muster up enough acceleration and noise to scare the "piss" out of the pup)......WIN-WIN situation!


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## JasonF

Weird news of the day: I encountered a sleeper F350 diesel pickup. It looked like a factory model, except it sounded like a jet engine once he floored it to keep me from passing him and getting into the right lane, so I suppose it had a dual turbo upgrade at least, maybe even further pricey upgrades. I _almost _couldn't pass him - I had a little bit left in reserve, but it was getting too dangerous since there were side streets coming up, so I slowed down (he did too, so I guess he also realized it was getting dicey).

Still amusing that the pickup's build probably costs almost 3 times what my car does to get that kind of power, and I still had a little in reserve.

I got ahead of him anyway because he had a slower car that turned out of a side road in front of him, and I passed _that_ car and took the right lane.


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## UncleMilt

I was on long, level freeway on-ramp behind a car and a bus slowly getting up to speed with a Subaru WRX anxiously riding my tail. As soon as the wall between the ramp and the freeway gave way to striping he began to speed up and edge left. I'd left room in front of me and saw the freeway lanes were wide open so I quickly put some distance between us. He never did get close again.


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## StromTrooperM3

JasonF said:


> I encountered a sleeper F350 diesel pickup.


I'm not sure what part of power to weight these guys don't understand. I always get tested by trucks and they never stand a chance. Don't get me wrong some are quick but they are heavy

I tried to test a new ZL1 Camero over the weekend but he wouldn't indulge me. Rolling 45mph I didn't think I'd stand a chance but I was just more curious than anything after reading owners on here say their Tesla is faster than similar models Camero vettes etc. Off the line maybe but that rolling 40 is a different animal with 600+hp..

There is a local SRT Grand Cherokee that I keep running into but haven't had the opportunity to run that.. Also curious as I was looking at one before I got the M3...I know it's fast but it didn't really wow me after 2 test drives maybe because how big it was... It just made me look for a track hawk that I had a hard time finding what I wanted


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## JasonF

StromTrooperM3 said:


> after reading owners on here say their Tesla is faster than similar models Camero vettes etc. Off the line maybe but that rolling 40 is a different animal with 600+hp..


That was me, read the first post in this thread.  I don't think that one was a top-of-the-line V8 model though.


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## StromTrooperM3

JasonF said:


> I don't think that one was a top-of-the-line V8 model though


Yeah you must have encountered a v6. This was the Mac daddy v8 super charged variant. Those kinds of cars still appeal way more to me than the Tesla. Theres just no soul to it.. I'll be back to Lamborghini shopping to replace the Tesla as that was my original want....I still want the poster car

Best daily though and truly a blast to pin it and be doing 70mph silently without drawing any attention from half a mile away 😋.


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## JustTheTip

This happened on April 3rd. A guy in a 60s Cobra. Loud as heck. Sounded great actually. Was riding my tail on a 2 lane road with a split to 4 lanes just up ahead. Once we got to the 2 lane part, I let him get up next to me. You could tell he was flooring it just by the way his car sounded. It was the first nice evening in awhile, so I knew he had that thing in the garage all season, just waiting to take it out to stretch it's legs. Well. He was thoroughly embarrassed by my 3P. It wasn't even close. I knew it wouldn't be, but he was tailgating me, sooooo...


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## Perscitus

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-awd-vs-mercedes-cls-53-vs-dodge-hellcat-drag-race/

Skip to 14 min 45 sec in the video to save yourself from all the upfront bs.


----------



## garsh

Perscitus said:


> https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-awd-vs-mercedes-cls-53-vs-dodge-hellcat-drag-race/
> 
> Skip to 14 min 45 sec in the video to save yourself from all the upfront bs.


Oh neat. A non-performance AWD Model 3 beats both the AMG and the Hellcat. Impressive!


----------



## PNWmisty

JasonF said:


> (To Everyone) Be very careful when you see that, because occasionally someone next to you punching it means they want to get into the lane you're in. Sometimes they'll get frustrated when you're accelerating next to them, and just shove their way over - which is _really_ dangerous at high speeds.


What? If I want to let them in my lane without holding everyone behind me up, I just punch my P3D off the light. This leaves them a huge gap to merge into right behind me before they know what happened! It works in our LR RWD also!


----------



## JasonF

PNWmisty said:


> What? If I want to let them in my lane without holding everyone behind me up, I just punch my P3D off the light. This leaves them a huge gap to merge into right behind me before they know what happened! It works in our LR RWD also!


True, that only applies if you drive alongside them so they can't pass you. They might get frustrated and just force their way over.


----------



## VoltageDrop

JasonF said:


> True, that only applies if you drive alongside them so they can't pass you. They might get frustrated and just force their way over.


I often make room for "impending stupidity and ignorance".....sometimes would rather have those impatient drivers out in front of me than tail gaiting behind me........


----------



## NJturtlePower

garsh said:


> Oh neat. A non-performance AWD Model 3 beats both the AMG and the Hellcat. Impressive!


In the mile high city, Yes. Finicky ICE cars and altitude problems 

In the end of the day this test is exactly what performance is about IMO, everyday, street driving, stoplight to stoplight, non-prepped perfect tracks and Tesla always wins time after time.


----------



## PNWmisty

JasonF said:


> True, that only applies if you drive alongside them so they can't pass you. They might get frustrated and just force their way over.


I drive our Tesla's in a similar manner to the way I ride my sporting road bikes. I get the heck out of the way of other (potential) idiots. The best way to do that (where I drive and ride) is to put some speed and distance between you and the other traffic. In other words, I'm one of the least likely people to frustrate other drivers. I like to adjust my speed to find the part of the road that has no traffic, where I can hang for a while until it fills up. In heavier traffic, if you put your turn signal on, I'll sag back so you can get in. I would want you to do the same for me. It shouldn't be a battleground out there.


----------



## Notrhj

Lead
Follow
But get out of the way


----------



## jeadly

Dan D said:


> While we're on the subject of behaving badly and abusing our instant torque/acceleration...
> 
> The other week a man in a *CHEESY* late-80's Corvette decided he was going to pass me on a double-yellow 30mph residential back road. When he got along side, I punched it to the point where he knew his macho plan wasn't going to work out and he backed off and got back in behind me. He stayed a reasonable distance behind me for the next few miles until he turned off. I am not proud of my actions as it was pretty dangerous and I won't say what MPH I got up to when I essentially overtook his attempted over-taking. But holy crap that gave me a rush that lasted all day. Santa didn't seem to mind. I still got Horizon Forza 4 in my stocking.


I think we just need a "send dash cam to local police" button. People want to drive like dangerous maniacs; fine, do it far away from me. Also I've got video of you breaking the law.

One of the hidden perks of the autonomous revolution will be the ability to actually revoke dangerous manual drivers' licenses.


----------



## VoltageDrop

Snacked on a Mercedes today....yum!


----------



## Deadbattery

MelindaV said:


> my prior car (Turbo Pontiac Solstice)


HA... I had a Sky Redline.... LOVED that car, so quick, my roof rules were over 40 and under 90 (fricken hot at lights with all that black interior and NO A/C.

I needed to pay for college for my kid more than I needed a third car so it went away.

I only connected the dots last year that the Solstice/Sky and the S/X/3 share Franz Von Holzhausen as their designer.


----------



## MelindaV

Deadbattery said:


> HA... I had a Sky Redline.... LOVED that car, so quick, my roof rules were over 40 and under 90 (fricken hot at lights with all that black interior and NO A/C.
> 
> I needed to pay for college for my kid more than I needed a third car so it went away.
> 
> I only connected the dots last year that the Solstice/Sky and the S/X/3 share Franz Von Holzhausen as their designer.


when I went down for the Model Y event, had a chance to meet Franz and thanked him for two great cars


----------



## RonAz

What I never understand is the overlaping conflicting laws. Which one can you follow?
Arizona allows electric cars in the left carpool lane on the freeways with only a driver in the car. That's great for Tesla owners, but what should you do for those who consider the left lane to be the fast lane. Drive 20 over and get ticketed like they might be?
Then the states put in car pool lanes in the left lane but don't repeal the law that says "Unlawful to travel in left lane except for passing". 
Oregon has never repealed it's "Basic Rule" law that states that you have to drive according to the conditions around you. Warm wet Oregon snow on the road can get you a ticket for driving 55 in these conditions even if that is the posted speed. Also, on an uncrowded rural freeway I used to drive my sports car at 80 in a 65 and was never stopped because of the Basic Rule law I presumed. I did get ticketed once for going downhill in an empty in semi truck doing 60 in a 55. The cop said I was violating the Federal Fuel Conservation Act. What about Basic Rule and the fact that I am burning no fuel going downhill? He said it didn't matter, new rule over ruled the previous unrepealed rules.
Moral of the story, If they want to pull you over they can. You are almost always violating some rule.
One more question. Carpool lanes have that wide white line on the right side of the lane. I used to think that it meant that you could not cross it untill it was a dashed line. So what are you supposed to do when the car behind you wants you out of his fast lane? Maybe the number two lane should now be the fast lane now.


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## JasonF

The truth is, there are a lot of obscure traffic laws, and if a cop follows you long enough, you're bound to violate one of them. Some smaller municipalities will do that regularly and base their entire city budget on it - because they own their own court, and there's no chance for you to challenge it. Even larger cities or highway patrol will gamble that you won't challenge a ticket and just pay it, because challenging it eats up a day of time.

I think I mentioned it further up in this thread, but I was caught with something really obscure once. If there's a left turn lane ahead that's backed up into the next lane, it's apparently illegal to move to the right, pass it, and then change back into the left lane immediately just past the left turn lane. You either have to continue straight, or wait in line for the lane to clear.

Another semi-obscure one was when there was a crash, and all the traffic on the road was being diverted down a side street to the right (south). I turned left into a restaurant parking lot to go back the way I came from, because I was trying to go north, and south would be way out of my way. One of the cops hopped into his car, chased me down, and cornered me in the parking lot. The obscure law I was violating? A traffic diversion at a crash is considered a "checkpoint" - just like a DUI checkpoint. You MUST go through it, even if you don't want to go that way. If you try and dodge it by turning around, it's an arrest-able offense. I was actually threatened with jail because I decided not to go the wrong way (fyi, whining helps a lot in these situations).


----------



## VoltageDrop

Well "ICE Assassin" wasn't really hungry today (was still digesting the Mercedes from yesterday)........but it couldn't pass up on one of its favorite snacks.....BMW tartare......


----------



## MelindaV

JasonF said:


> The truth is, there are a lot of obscure traffic laws, and if a cop follows you long enough, you're bound to violate one of them. Some smaller municipalities will do that regularly and base their entire city budget on it


I was a front passenger in a car, with a person sitting behind me, pulled over for not 'properly wearing a seatbelt'. When leaving a parking lot, the person sitting behind me asked for a little more leg room, so I pulled the seatbelt shoulder strap away from my shoulder, while fastened, and moved the seat forward. This all done while driving past a cop who then pulled us over. THIS apparently is against the law, not because there is an obscure law stating how a seatbelt should be worn, but because they sited vehicle owners manuals have diagrams of the shoulder strap against the shoulder. twice I went to this small town's traffic court evening to fight this ridiculous ticket, and lost. Ended up paying $300 for a ticket saying I was not wearing a seatbelt. Both nights most every ticket brought up was for something that seemed ridiculous. Every speeding ticket was at a specific spot coming into town, where the speed limit changes from 55 to 25, on a down hill road, and the 25 mph sign around a corner - no 'reduced speed limit ahead' posted prior to it. One super upset mother with multiple tickets for her child not being in the properly sized carseat - and not because the seat itself wasn't the proper size per the manufacturer (which she brought literature in to prove it was the correct size and a statement from her local fire department that installed it for her), but because the state had recently changed the language in the law on booster seats. She ended up with something like $500 in fines for child endangerment.


----------



## VoltageDrop

MelindaV said:


> I was a front passenger in a car, with a person sitting behind me, pulled over for not 'properly wearing a seatbelt'. When leaving a parking lot, the person sitting behind me asked for a little more leg room, so I pulled the seatbelt shoulder strap away from my shoulder, while fastened, and moved the seat forward. This all done while driving past a cop who then pulled us over. THIS apparently is against the law, not because there is an obscure law stating how a seatbelt should be worn, but because they sited vehicle owners manuals have diagrams of the shoulder strap against the shoulder. twice I went to this small town's traffic court evening to fight this ridiculous ticket, and lost. Ended up paying $300 for a ticket saying I was not wearing a seatbelt. Both nights most every ticket brought up was for something that seemed ridiculous. Every speeding ticket was at a specific spot coming into town, where the speed limit changes from 55 to 25, on a down hill road, and the 25 mph sign around a corner - no 'reduced speed limit ahead' posted prior to it. One super upset mother with multiple tickets for her child not being in the properly sized carseat - and not because the seat itself wasn't the proper size per the manufacturer (which she brought literature in to prove it was the correct size and a statement from her local fire department that installed it for her), but because the state had recently changed the language in the law on booster seats. She ended up with something like $500 in fines for child endangerment.


Wow! This is ridiculous......although I have gotten pulled over before for a very mildly tinted license plate cover......officer said that he couldn't see my plate with his light shining on it....it was daylight at the time......didn't bother as I knew if he pulled me over for that....I was getting the ticket no matter what I say......


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## JasonF

MelindaV said:


> Both nights most every ticket brought up was for something that seemed ridiculous.


The most ridiculous one I've seen is a relative of mine got a ticket once in a small city in the city of Reading, Ohio, for going 20 mph over the speed limit even though the speed limit hadn't changed from 45 to 25 yet, and she hadn't even entered the city's limits yet. They claimed that once you're within 1000 feet of the Speed Limit 25 sign, you have to obey it whether it's visible or not. They actually had that obscure city ordinance on the books like that just so they could legally enforced a speed limit sign you couldn't even see, and even though it overlapped with a higher speed limit zone!


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## MelindaV

JasonF said:


> The most ridiculous one I've seen is a relative of mine got a ticket once in a small city in the city of Reading, Ohio, for going 20 mph over the speed limit even though the speed limit hadn't changed from 45 to 25 yet, and she hadn't even entered the city's limits yet. They claimed that once you're within 1000 feet of the Speed Limit 25 sign, you have to obey it whether it's visible or not. They actually had that obscure city ordinance on the books like that just so they could legally enforced a speed limit sign you couldn't even see, and even though it overlapped with a higher speed limit zone!


that sounds pretty close to what this town was doing. 
most disappointing part for me was, while this town is about an hour from where I currently live, the house I grew up in was about 10 minutes from here, and at least according to the post office, under the same name/zip. it is a small town that now is primarily antique stores and galleries, so most of the weekend traffic is from people visiting from out of town. (google lists it's current in town population as 1,012). every one of those people at their traffic court nights were from out of town. (did I mention traffic court was at the American Legion Hall?). When we were stopped, and the cop asked for my ID, if it showed my dad's address, instead of being out of state, would I have gotten a ticket? (and since when do passengers need to show ID?). I feel like I should tell people not to go there.


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## Klaus-rf

Rats - I haven't gotten a ticket in over 30 years. Feeling left out. I must be doing something wrong?


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## RonAz

That was my last moving violation 1981, about three million miles ago. Weighmasters, that's another story.


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## Needsdecaf

MelindaV said:


> I was a front passenger in a car, with a person sitting behind me, pulled over for not 'properly wearing a seatbelt'. When leaving a parking lot, the person sitting behind me asked for a little more leg room, so I pulled the seatbelt shoulder strap away from my shoulder, while fastened, and moved the seat forward. This all done while driving past a cop who then pulled us over. THIS apparently is against the law, not because there is an obscure law stating how a seatbelt should be worn, but because they sited vehicle owners manuals have diagrams of the shoulder strap against the shoulder. twice I went to this small town's traffic court evening to fight this ridiculous ticket, and lost. Ended up paying $300 for a ticket saying I was not wearing a seatbelt. Both nights most every ticket brought up was for something that seemed ridiculous. Every speeding ticket was at a specific spot coming into town, where the speed limit changes from 55 to 25, on a down hill road, and the 25 mph sign around a corner - no 'reduced speed limit ahead' posted prior to it. One super upset mother with multiple tickets for her child not being in the properly sized carseat - and not because the seat itself wasn't the proper size per the manufacturer (which she brought literature in to prove it was the correct size and a statement from her local fire department that installed it for her), but because the state had recently changed the language in the law on booster seats. She ended up with something like $500 in fines for child endangerment.


That's ridiculous.


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## MJJ

MelindaV said:


> I feel like I should tell people not to go there.


You should. What's the town?


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## Mr. Spacely

I really told myself to be an adult. But in my morning commute today a Porsche 911 and my Model 3 were side by side going about 40 into a right hand turn with double turn lanes. This guy was not in a Cayman or starter Porsche. It was a 911 and I have the single engine, rear wheel drive, SR+ with 18" standard wheels and tires. He was on the right (inside) and I was on the left (outside). We were even going into the turn but I was slightly ahead coming out of the turn thanks to a lower center of gravity. While he was downshifting and making a bunch of noise, I began pulling away coming out of the turn thanks to instant torque. He was almost with me for a second... then he had to upshift. I felt sorry for the poor guy in his $115,000 ICE...


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## Needsdecaf

Mr. Spacely said:


> I really told myself to be an adult. But in my morning commute today a Porsche 911 and my Model 3 were side by side going about 40 into a right hand turn with double turn lanes. This guy was not in a Cayman or starter Porsche. It was a 911 and I have the single engine, rear wheel drive, SR+ with 18" standard wheels and tires. He was on the right (inside) and I was on the left (outside). We were even going into the turn but I was slightly ahead coming out of the turn thanks to a lower center of gravity. While he was downshifting and making a bunch of noise, I began pulling away coming out of the turn thanks to instant torque. He was almost with me for a second... then he had to upshift. I felt sorry for the poor guy in his $115,000 ICE...


Easy kill. 911's are really down on low end torque unless it's a Turbo or one of the 991.2's with the twin turbo base 3.0.

But don't feel too bad. It's not all about speed. I enjoy my 911 as much as my Model 3, just for different reasons. In fact, I was kind of not appreciating it as much as I probably should have and then I got the Model 3 and the more miles I put on it, the more I enjoyed getting back into the 911. I don't drive it every day for a good reason, but I really appreciate the rawness of it after getting out of the Model 3. I'm thankful to have both.

And remember, there's always a Hellcat around waiting to just beat everyone up.


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## MelindaV

and remember, just because a sports car is next to and keeping pace, doesn't specifically mean they are attempting to 'beat' you. More times than not, they are just going to wherever they need to be going and happen to be adjacent.


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## JasonF

MelindaV said:


> and remember, just because a sports car is next to and keeping pace, doesn't specifically mean they are attempting to 'beat' you. More times than not, they are just going to wherever they need to be going and happen to be adjacent.


I have the opposite happen here from time to time. I'm accelerating normally, and someone is next to me (usually in one of those hastily built import "racers") revving like crazy to keep up. I only notice because of all of the noise.


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## Needsdecaf

MelindaV said:


> and remember, just because a sports car is next to and keeping pace, doesn't specifically mean they are attempting to 'beat' you. More times than not, they are just going to wherever they need to be going and happen to be adjacent.


Yeah, I know that I've had people try to race me while in the Porsche and I studiously avoid doing so. I'm too old for that crap. But like I said, even a RWD Model 3 has enough torque to blow 95% of the cars into the weeds.



JasonF said:


> I have the opposite happen here from time to time. I'm accelerating normally, and someone is next to me (usually in one of those hastily built import "racers") revving like crazy to keep up. I only notice because of all of the noise.


Down here in TX, it's the American Muscle that's always horsing around. Usually a Challenger or Camaro, sometimes a Mustang. Often a pickup truck too, but the bro-dozers usually keep to themselves, unless they're rolling coal on you.


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## JasonF

Needsdecaf said:


> Down here in TX, it's the American Muscle that's always horsing around. Usually a Challenger or Camaro, sometimes a Mustang. Often a pickup truck too, but the bro-dozers usually keep to themselves, unless they're rolling coal on you.


In a whole year with a Model 3, I've never had anyone try to roll coal on me...


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## Needsdecaf

JasonF said:


> In a whole year with a Model 3, I've never had anyone try to roll coal on me...


I've never been coal rolled either, but I've seen it plenty of times. I think usually they aren't targeting anything, just kind of stomping on it to announce their presence in general. they don't get me because I'm usually whizzing by too fast.


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## Mr. Spacely

Oh he was trying to race me...


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## Needsdecaf

Mr. Spacely said:


> Oh he was trying to race me...


Unfortunately, too many Porsche owners fit the stereotype..


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## garsh

Needsdecaf said:


> And remember, there's always a Hellcat around waiting to just beat everyone up.


I'd like to see a Hellcat try to beat me.


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## MelindaV

garsh said:


> I'd like to see a Hellcat try to beat me.


yay for PIR  (I sit on the freeway next to this track every day)


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## Needsdecaf

garsh said:


> I'd like to see a Hellcat try to beat me.


Meh, that was a manual with a bad launch. Very bad launch.

Just rolling around in traffic, I bet the Hellcat would probably take a win. But not by much.

But what's the point anyway. Our cars are quick!


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## garsh

Needsdecaf said:


> Just rolling around in traffic, I bet the Hellcat would probably take a win. But not by much.


That Hellcat had drag slicks. Put it on street tires, and it won't do as well. Our cars are much easier to launch. The traction control is phenomenal. And the hellcat is two wheel drive while ours are all wheel drive.

I like our chances even better at a stop-light drag race.


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## MelindaV

garsh said:


> I like our chances even better at a stop-light drag race.


until you realize its an unmarked police car


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## garsh

MelindaV said:


> until you realize its an unmarked police car


Then I could definitely beat it. 

Police seem to be switching to Ford Explorers around these parts. Only local police with older cars still drive Dodge Chargers.


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## Mr. Spacely

Haven't had a good ICE race for a while until this morning's commute. It was good news bad news against a $225,000 Lamborghini Huracan. While he did eventually pull away very loudly, there is still no car I've encountered that has the instant torque a Tesla does. When we both took off from a rolling 25-30mph, he made all kinds of noise trying to downshift while I leapt ahead. Then his 610hp V-10 kicked in...


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## Greg Appelt

JasonF said:


> In a whole year with a Model 3, I've never had anyone try to roll coal on me...


Last night someone was attempting to do this to me. Every time I slowed to the speed limit I could hear their turbo whining up. As soon as they were to my bumper - blip I was gone. After the 3rd time they gave up.


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## fritter63

Mr. Spacely said:


> Haven't had a good ICE race for a while until this morning's commute. It was good news bad news against a $225,000 Lamborghini Huracan. While he did eventually pull away very loudly, there is still no car I've encountered that has the instant torque a Tesla does. When we both took off from a rolling 25-30mph, he made all kinds of noise trying to downshift while I leapt ahead. Then his 610hp V-10 kicked in...


Careful @Mr. Spacely, he might be an under cover NARC! Did he look like he needed a shave?


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## Mr. Spacely

fritter63 said:


> Careful @Mr. Spacely, he might be an under cover NARC! Did he look like he needed a shave?


Yes, he might have been a NARC. But I wasn't trying to buy drugs-- I was driving a car...


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## fritter63

Mr. Spacely said:


> Yes, he might have been a NARC. But I wasn't trying to buy drugs-- I was driving a car...


 I'm thinking you didn't get the Miami Vice joke there....


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## Mr. Spacely

fritter63 said:


> I'm thinking you didn't get the Miami Vice joke there....


Wow. No, missed it. Miami Vice is so 80s...


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## MelindaV

Do not street race


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## JasonF

MelindaV said:


> Do not street race


There are a lot of reasons to listen to that advice:

- In some jurisdictions now, you could end up with your car impounded and sold if you're caught street racing. Even if they don't do that, the penalty is often an immediate suspended license.

- You _will_ eventually crash. If you're focused on beating someone, you get tunnel vision, and won't notice things like sharp curves or a car pulling out of a side street until it's too late.

- The part most people don't think about - you could accidentally take on a _really _serious street racer. If you bruise the wrong person's ego/reputation, they could react violently. If you _lose_ to them, they also could react violently.

- In some areas, being goaded into a race might lead to a trap where you end up losing your car and wallet. Or the other kind of trap where it's an unmarked police Charger, and now you have an expensive ticket.

That said, even the cops likely won't care if you simply out-accelerate someone for a few seconds when a light turns green, as long as you don't become dangerous or make a spectacle of yourself. Then again, you never know, with bruised egos and all.


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## Mr. Spacely

JasonF said:


> That said, even the cops likely won't care if you simply out-accelerate someone for a few seconds when a light turns green


Exactly...


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## MelindaV

JasonF said:


> There are a lot of reasons to listen to that advice:
> 
> - In some jurisdictions now, you could end up with your car impounded and sold if you're caught street racing. Even if they don't do that, the penalty is often an immediate suspended license.
> 
> - You _will_ eventually crash. If you're focused on beating someone, you get tunnel vision, and won't notice things like sharp curves or a car pulling out of a side street until it's too late.
> 
> - The part most people don't think about - you could accidentally take on a _really _serious street racer. If you bruise the wrong person's ego/reputation, they could react violently. If you _lose_ to them, they also could react violently.
> 
> - In some areas, being goaded into a race might lead to a trap where you end up losing your car and wallet. Or the other kind of trap where it's an unmarked police Charger, and now you have an expensive ticket.
> 
> That said, even the cops likely won't care if you simply out-accelerate someone for a few seconds when a light turns green, as long as you don't become dangerous or make a spectacle of yourself. Then again, you never know, with bruised egos and all.


weekly here in Portland AT LEAST 3 cars are impounded, if not more, for street racing along with multiple people arrested. just waiting to see a Tesla listed amongst them.

EDIT, I should say 3 that make the news each week...


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## gaduser

Having grown up in the 50s, I remember the thrill of dragging off from many lights. How easy it is to forget that most of us were then driving 100 HP flat heads, with three on the tree.
Having been there, I am often amused by today's jockeys smirking, perhaps internally, as they rocket by me. My amusement has been occasionally heightened by accelerating, only moderately, as the jockey's dust off my T. If only they knew.
My reference point is the other car in my stable - a breathed on Cadillac CTS-V Coupe - a very fast car easily dusted by my V.
And to all I say, drive carefully and enjoy your technological marvel. 

My comments, and those following, awaken memories of perceptions from my early driving days, in a sense similar to today's. 
Then a well used 1950 Mercury convertible that smoked, had some rust holes, smelled of brake fluid, and seemed very special. 
Now a new Tesla Model 3 Performance sedan unable to smoke, without rust, exhibiting that new car smell, that seems very special.


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## Tony Rigano

I had one of these “moments “ a couple of weeks ago. The highway by my home has traffic lights. I pull up in one lane and a hemi pickup Gets in the next lane. I had 4 people in my M3. You know where this is going....light changes and the Hemi guns it.....however...by the time we went about an eighth of a mile I was about 5 or so car lengths in front of the guy. As they used to say back in the day....shut down,


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## Nautilus

I was out on errands Saturday, when I came to a t-intersection with a red Ferrari waiting at their stop sign to join the straight-through road I was on. I'm pretty sure I knew the owner, if its who I thought it was, since I had coached his son playing rugby several years ago. You remember when a Ferrari pulls into the parking lot to pick up one of the players after practice. The son was embarrassed as all our jaws dropped (not a lot of Ferraris in my neck of the woods).

Anyway, the Ferrari pulled in behind me. There was a long stretch of straight road up ahead with no houses or businesses along it, but first we had to get through a roundabout. As we drove past the church and a subdivision, my mind raced in anticipation: Would he be exiting the roundabout where I was? If I gunned it, would he play along? Would the instant torque of the Model 3 outpace the Ferrari? Would this be one of the days when the local constabulary did or did not have their speed trap set up on that stretch of the road? Sadly, only the first and last questions would be answered. He turned right when I went straight. And as I subsequently drove along at the speed limit, there were no police to be found.


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## gaduser

Well said!


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## VoltageDrop

I was driving home the other day and had a Mazda 3 Speed (turbo) barreling along side in the adjacent lane......he looked like he was just going to speed on by and instead abruptly slowed down beside me and then proceeded to tap the gas pedal trying to get me to bite......as much as I would have loved to give him the Tesla smackdown.....I thought to myself that I most definitely have nothing to prove to him and didn't want to waste the time or energy playing into it......after a couple of more "gas pedal taps"....he then decided that he was going to "show me" what a fast car really was and floored it......I just chuckled to myself knowing that I could have turned him into a time traveler and sent him back to the ice age if I wanted to........


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## JasonF

Today I had a bit of the "hell no" version. I was on kind of a winding 4-lane (2 in each direction) road during rush hour. It runs between two congested main roads, so it's really not that long. At a light about halfway between the two main roads - cutting the road's distance in half - I unconsciously accelerated alongside this turbocharged Acura that was admittedly well done, since the driver managed to downshift and spin both wheels with lots of smoke starting at about 30 mph. 

If it hadn't been heavy rush hour and dark out (high risk of someone pulling out of a side street or driveway in front of us) and such a short run of road, I could have easily left him behind, but I decided the only winning move was not to play. It was far too dangerous. He kept trying to egg me on by slowing and then accelerating again, but I kept resisting, and then we both ended up stuck at a light, and then going different ways, at the end of that road anyway.


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## JasonF

Today, out of self-preservation, I had to race _two_ BMW's from a stoplight.

The two BMW's were racing each other incredibly dangerously during rush hour. They both became trapped behind each other at a stop light beside me - I was in the center lane of a 3-lane road, and one of the BMW's (a black one) was in the left lane. The other (a white one) moved from behind the black BMW to the left turn lane.

Yes, you guessed it. I could see that when the light changed, the path they were going to take was they were both going to race for the left lane across the intersection (there was an island in the center, so they couldn't use the non-lane across) at the same time. Either they were going to crash, or one of them was going to hit _me _as they are forced from the left lane into the center one.

So as soon as the light changed, I stomped the accelerator. I was long gone by the time the two of them nearly collided, and I kept going until I could slip in front of another car in the left lane so the two of them would have to go past me.


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## KWATTSN

Sounds to me like you just turned an unsafe situation into an even more dangerous one because you couldn’t wait for the assholes to get out of the way.


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## JasonF

KWATTSN said:


> Sounds to me like you just turned an unsafe situation into an even more dangerous one because you couldn't wait for the assholes to get out of the way.


I feel like you're imagining a Tesla and two BMW's going 100 mph between traffic lights during rush hour - that really would be dangerous. The reality was more like a short burst of acceleration that got me up to maybe 52-55 before I settled back into traffic (the speed limit was 50).

I also thought about sitting at the light and waiting to see what they do, but the black BMW was uncomfortably close to my left, and I was afraid he might be so focused on the other BMW, he might sideswipe me as he swerves to make room for the other driver. The only times I've ever been hit are while I was sitting still.


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## Dr. J

JasonF said:


> The only times I've ever been hit are while I was sitting still.


By all means, keep that bus *moving*!


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## JasonF

Dr. J said:


> By all means, keep that bus *moving*!


It sounds like I'm joking, but I'm not! I was hit while stopped in a parking lot; Rear-ended while at two different stoplights; Had the front of my car (2 cars ago) torn off by someone running a red light, but I stopped first when I saw him coming; and finally, rear-ended by someone texting while changing lanes in stopped traffic.


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## Mr. Spacely

Agree on sitting still damage. I've need body shop work three times in my life-- rear ended by a truck while sitting still in traffic; major front end damage in a parking lot while I was at lunch (thanks for not leaving a note, idiot); and minor damage from someone backing into me while parked at tennis (driver came and found me--thanks.)


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## JasonF

Not messing with a sports car this time, but with a cop! (accidentally, of course)

When the lockdown first started, I had to run to the office once to pick up something I left there. I wasted no time there - stopped in, grabbed what I needed, left, and headed straight home - so I wasn't out violating curfew. I had to stop at this one red light close to work. When it turned green, of course since I was driving an EV, I pulled away far ahead of the other cars at the intersection, and got up to something like 52 mph (the speed limit is 55) very quickly, which is where I stayed. I was in the center lane at the time out of 3 lanes.

I looked in the rear view mirror, and saw a police SUV zipping around the cars I left behind at very high speed. No emergency lights, but he zipped up to behind me, and then slowed down suddenly right on my tail, and stayed on my tail for two more intersections. He finally moved over two lanes to the left turn lane after he realized I _wasn't speeding_.

I didn't think about it until after I got home, but now I think that cop saw me zip ahead of traffic from way back, and was certain that a) I was speeding, and b) I was in a hurry and would continue driving recklessly until he pulled me over. Turned out he just mistook all of that for powerful low-end torque and someone who wasn't in a particular hurry.

It does make me wonder if anyone (in particular, anyone here) was actually pulled over and questioned by police because they pulled away from an intersection too fast. If that cop I mentioned would have been more eager, he might have actually pulled me over instead of just watching me for two blocks.


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## Tony Rigano

Living in the northeast I encounter quite a few incidents mentioned in this thread. I have two perspectives. Since 1987 I’ve owned a Buick turbo regal. I am very guilty of having a lead foot. Owning this M3 brings me right back to those lead foot days. 
it seems for sure that my tesla invokes a similar reaction from drivers That my Regal did ( and does).
cars ( whether high performance or not) seem to act aggressively around me. I’ve had many occasions where I am going at least 10 over the limit Only to find someone tailgating me. Can’t stand that. If I was loafing along I’d move over. My answer to the situation is to drop the hammer and get them off my tail. Is that wrong or reckless? Well, when I do this I have a clear lane in front of me. once I blow the car behind me away ( which, as a few posters have said here) I’ve gotten my speed ‘fix’ and move over. I’ve made my point...your car is left in my dust...and I go back to my 10 over AP.
ive experienced this with my Regal since I got it and now history repeats itself with my M3.
one day I have to have my son race the 3 against my turbo, to me they feel very similar.....except I know for sure the 3 will bet me because my Regal hasn’t the instant torque


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## fritter63

JasonF said:


> It does make me wonder if anyone (in particular, anyone here) was actually pulled over and questioned by police because they pulled away from an intersection too fast. If that cop I mentioned would have been more eager, he might have actually pulled me over instead of just watching me for two blocks.


There was an article at InsideEVS last week with corresponding Tesla cam footage of a similar instance. what was odd is how in that case the cop pulled up alongside, turned on his lights for a second, then sped off.

And of course, a following conversation about tickets for "excessive acceleration". Which I think means that they need to redefine what that means in the age of EVs. I'm guessing its original intent was based on pushing the limits of gasoline drivetrains well beyond normal acceleration.


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## Klaus-rf

JasonF said:


> It does make me wonder if anyone (in particular, anyone here) was actually pulled over and questioned by police because they pulled away from an intersection too fast. If that cop I mentioned would have been more eager, he might have actually pulled me over instead of just watching me for two blocks.


 The most recent time I was been pulled over was way back on March 4, 1989 so it's been a long while.

Cops don't see the Tesla at all in my experience. They certainly don't hear it. Perhaps they see the old curmudgeon driving and move on to the speeding minivan.


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## Klaus-rf

Tony Rigano said:


> My answer to the situation is to drop the hammer and get them off my tail. Is that wrong or reckless?


 Technically, Yes.

Not saying I don't enjoy doing the same now and then, but we can certainly be cited for it.


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## garsh

Tony Rigano said:


> Only to find someone tailgating me. Can't stand that. *If I was loafing along I'd move over.*


If there's a right lane to move into, it's generally courteous to do so. But if you're going to be making a left-hand turn within a mile or so, it's certainly ok. And there's never a good reason for someone to tailgate you.

I assume you're not on a limited access highway, in which case it's often the law that you should be in the right lane unless passing another vehicle.


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## FRC

One of my favorite things about driving on rural Canadian Provincial Highways is that the left lane is used for passing slower cars ONLY. Otherwise it stays empty, and no tailgating since it's so easy to pass in the left-most, PASSING lane. We, self-centered Americans, could learn a thing or two from our northern neighbors.


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## Tony Rigano

Krause, yes I realize it’s wrong and 2 wrongs don’t make it right but...I don’t like tailgaters....I’d rather have them behind me. Less road rage issues.


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## JasonF

Tony Rigano said:


> Krause, yes I realize it's wrong and 2 wrongs don't make it right but...I don't like tailgaters....I'd rather have them behind me. Less road rage issues.


This is one of those strange cases where potentially the law and common courtesy don't agree.

Example: You're driving in the left lane slightly above the speed limit, and a car is driving fairly close next to you. Behind you a highway patrol car ** is coming up quickly. What do you do?

Legally, your choices are either to stay where you are until the car beside you gives you enough room, or slow down and squeeze into a space _behind_ the car beside you. If you follow either choice available under the law, though, you're likely to make the highway patrol cop angry, and they might pull you over anyhow, either for 'blocking traffic' or for 'improper lane change'.

If you break the law slightly and accelerate far past the speed limit and move over, the cop _might_ pull you over for speeding, but it's far more likely they will be grateful you broke the law and committed to keeping traffic moving smoothly.

** I used a highway patrol car to raise the immediate stakes of this example. There is far less of a threat to speeding up and moving over if there is no one to enforce the speed limit. But there _is_ still a higher risk of road rage or causing a crash if you stay put or slow down to move over.

Add-on warning: Speeding up extremely to prevent the person behind you from completing a pass into the left lane is _way_ more dangerous, definitely would cause road rage, and might even cause a spectacular crash. If you love your Tesla, don't do that.


----------



## Jim Brown

_Why not just drive the speed limit? Seems people think that going "5 mph to 10 mph over" is their right. Or that it's "OK". Actually, it's not. That's why it's called the "Speed LIMIT". Will you get a ticket going just a little over? Probably not. That doesn't make it right. Have I done it? Yes. Still doesn't make it right. Just because you have a car that goes fast, doesn't give you the right to blow past the other traffic. Just a thought._


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## JasonF

Jim Brown said:


> _Why not just drive the speed limit? Seems people think that going "5 mph to 10 mph over" is their right. Or that it's "OK". Actually, it's not. That's why it's called the "Speed LIMIT". Will you get a ticket going just a little over? Probably not. That doesn't make it right. Have I done it? Yes. Still doesn't make it right. Just because you have a car that goes fast, doesn't give you the right to blow past the other traffic. Just a thought._


Inside the U.S. (and Canada too apparently), the speed limits are treated as a game with law enforcement. I think the reason why is because while the fines can be lower here than elsewhere in the world, the overall penalties can add up to being much worse. Look it up sometime and see just how few speeding tickets you have to get before your insurance cost doubles. Or even how few you have to get before your license is temporarily suspended. Now, imagine how quickly you would lose your insurance and license if there were speed cameras everywhere that would issue a fine if you went 1 mph over the speed limit for a few seconds.

If the speed limit started to be enforced that way, angry customers would demand that car manufacturers have their cars refuse to go over the speed limit for any reason. And since power is one if the major selling points of most cars in the U.S., that one small change would make it very difficult for manufacturers to differentiate their products and advertise.

And that's why speed limits are treated as a game in the U.S. and Canada.

In some areas of Europe, the highways have speed cameras every few miles to catch people who slip up and go even 1 kilometer per hour above the speed limit. For the most part, it's only a moneymaking scheme, and locals have just accepted it as a "toll" if they get caught. But that's because it doesn't come with more severe penalties than that.


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## Klaus-rf

Tony Rigano said:


> Krause, yes I realize it's wrong and 2 wrongs don't make it right but....


 I think t's 3 wrongs to a Right this time of year - as long as physical distancing is properly observed.


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## gaduser

Klaus-rf,

Does "*physical distancing*" mean way ahead?
Couldn't pass the opportunity.


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## StromTrooperM3

JasonF said:


> It does make me wonder if anyone (in particular, anyone here) was actually pulled over and questioned by police because they pulled away from an intersection too fast.


There is an "unsafe start" law which is typically imposed if you were to spin or squeal your tires from a stop. Ask me how I know 😂

Much to my dislike, our cars limit that from happening. I don't believe there is any law for how quickly you reach the speed limit. I'm sure he was A) curious as to why you were so far ahead of the cars and B) if you were driving recklessly as you mentioned


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## MelindaV

JasonF said:


> Not messing with a sports car this time, but with a cop! (accidentally, of course)
> 
> When the lockdown first started, I had to run to the office once to pick up something I left there. I wasted no time there - stopped in, grabbed what I needed, left, and headed straight home - so I wasn't out violating curfew. I had to stop at this one red light close to work. When it turned green, of course since I was driving an EV, I pulled away far ahead of the other cars at the intersection, and got up to something like 52 mph (the speed limit is 55) very quickly, which is where I stayed. I was in the center lane at the time out of 3 lanes.
> 
> I looked in the rear view mirror, and saw a police SUV zipping around the cars I left behind at very high speed. No emergency lights, but he zipped up to behind me, and then slowed down suddenly right on my tail, and stayed on my tail for two more intersections. He finally moved over two lanes to the left turn lane after he realized I _wasn't speeding_.
> 
> I didn't think about it until after I got home, but now I think that cop saw me zip ahead of traffic from way back, and was certain that a) I was speeding, and b) I was in a hurry and would continue driving recklessly until he pulled me over. Turned out he just mistook all of that for powerful low-end torque and someone who wasn't in a particular hurry.
> 
> It does make me wonder if anyone (in particular, anyone here) was actually pulled over and questioned by police because they pulled away from an intersection too fast. If that cop I mentioned would have been more eager, he might have actually pulled me over instead of just watching me for two blocks.


A few months ago, just after the traffic light graphics (HW3) appeared, I was first car at the bottom of the freeway off ramp red light and looking at the screen when the light turned green. car behind me honked and I accelerated fast and up to the speed limit before thru the intersection (onto a 40mph street), or noticing the honking car was a police car. He didn't have an issue with my acceleration


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## FRC

StromTrooperM3 said:


> There is an "unsafe start" law which is typically imposed if you were to spin or squeal your tires from a stop. Ask me how I know 😂
> 
> Much to my dislike, our cars limit that from happening. I don't believe there is any law for how quickly you reach the speed limit. I'm sure he was A) curious as to why you were so far ahead of the cars and B) if you were driving recklessly as you mentioned


Traffic laws can vary between jurisdictions. However, I think it's fairly universally true that many situations are a matter of the officer's discretion. For example, if you accelerate very quickly leaving a light, even if you don't spin or squeal tires, an officer can decide that you are "racing" and ticket you for that. It would be purely his opinion, and good luck defending against that in court.

Having said all that, I almost always punch it leaving a light if the road ahead is clear. And not solely for the thrill; I like to get out ahead of traffic alone. It just feels safer that way.


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## Klaus-rf

FRC said:


> ... For example, if you accelerate very quickly leaving a light, even if you don't spin or squeal tires, an officer can decide that you are "racing" and ticket you for that. It would be purely his opinion, and good luck defending against that in court. ...


 In some states (such as Arizona and California) "Exhibition of Speed" and "Reckless Driving" can be applied just for exercising your right foot beyond whatever is considered "normal acceleration".


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## Tony Rigano

Gaduser......nice play on words!


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## StromTrooperM3

FRC said:


> It would be purely his opinion and good luck defending against that in court


I'm sure the dashcam footage of no one next to you would be more than enough. I don't know where most of you are from but just showing up and talking to a DA results in a parking ticket, no defense necessary in any of the tickets I've ever gotten.


Klaus-rf said:


> exercising your right foot beyond whatever is considered "normal acceleration".


Which is why law is always open for interpretation, normal to what? An ice car? Dismissed due to lack of definition


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## JasonF

FRC said:


> Traffic laws can vary between jurisdictions. However, I think it's fairly universally true that many situations are a matter of the officer's discretion. For example, if you accelerate very quickly leaving a light, even if you don't spin or squeal tires, an officer can decide that you are "racing" and ticket you for that. It would be purely his opinion, and good luck defending against that in court.


There are a _lot_ of traffic offenses that end up being your word against the officer's. I was ticketed once for "unsafe passing on the right". And technically I _did_ pass on the right...to get around a line of cars stopped and waiting to turn left. I didn't fight it because I figured even if I came to court well-prepared with an explanation and diagrams, the judge/magistrate would point blank ask me "did you pass on the right?" "well, yes." "Then you're guilty, fine plus court costs. NEXT!"

Another I had that would have also been my word against the officer's was when I approached a crash scene where the road was closed, and traffic was being redirected south. I was supposed to turn north at the next intersection, so that would have taken me far out of the way. So I completely legally took the left turn lane, and made a U-turn (it was a McDonald's entrance) to go back one intersection and head north. An officer raced up behind me and pulled me over, saying that I was "evading a police checkpoint", and spent a good 5 minutes berating me about that I think I know better than everyone else and he's going to teach me a lesson. Then he just suddenly left, I guess when he realized how stupid that was. All of it because he _forgot to cone off that left turn_ to force everyone through the reroute. But if he would have arrested me, I'm sure it would have been difficult defending myself, because if the officer continued to claim it was a 'police checkpoint' instead of a crash scene, whether u-turn was legal or not would have been moot.


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## FRC

StromTrooperM3 said:


> I don't know where most of you are from


Most of us involved in this discussion have divulged where we are from. We don't know where you are from, and I would hazard a guess that the way traffic citations are handled in your area is not the norm. Where I'm from(Georgia), you get cited and you either pay the ticket without appearing(not always an option), or you appear and either plead guilty or choose to defend yourself. Anytime that it comes down to what you say versus what the officer says, your chances of prevailing are negligible. Where I'm from, the DA is not involved in traffic citations.


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## StromTrooperM3

Seems like a lot of you don't have much experience in court. Which is a good thing. But fear has always been a healthy way to enforce compliance. What the officer does roadside is fairly meaningless when you show up with representation in court and they have to *prove their side. *it works both ways


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## StromTrooperM3

FRC said:


> Where I'm from(Georgia), you get cited and you either pay the ticket without appearing(not always an option), or you appear and either plead guilty or choose to defend yourself.


Nope that's not how court works, you always have the right to an attorney


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## FRC

StromTrooperM3 said:


> Nope that's not how court works, you always have the right to an attorney


Of course you do, that's not my point. It's unlikely that I'm going to pay an Attorney to contest a TRAFFIC CITATION. The cost/benefit ration wouldn't make sense. Can you please divulge your jurisdiction.


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## Klaus-rf

StromTrooperM3 said:


> I'm sure the dashcam footage of no one next to you would be more than enough.


 If only the dashcam footage had date/time and/ GPS stamps. But, alas, it doesn't. So it's really easy to deny admittance of that as "evidence" since there's no provable chain of custody and no way to prove what date/time it was recorded. Could be a recording from a previous year, for example.

Thusly, I wouldn't automagically plan on dashcam footage immediately resulting in a dismissal.


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## StromTrooperM3

Klaus-rf said:


> If only the dashcam footage had date/time and/ GPS stamps. But, alas, it doesn't
> 
> Could be a recording from a previous year, for example.


If there is no one next to you who are you racing? Hence my example of dismissal.

I'm not really following you have dashcam of footage of no one next to you and the traffic stop likely within the 10 minutes? What are the odds of that being at a different time then what you're contesting

Anyway I digress. This whole thread basically instigates racing on the road against "sports cars"... None of which the 9 pages of comments should encourage


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## StromTrooperM3

FRC said:


> Can you please divulge your jurisdiction.


I worked for a state law enforcement agency in NY for 9 years. We have points on our license here. In most speeding cases there is absolutely a cost benefit to the attorney vs the points and raise of insurance premiums


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## JWardell

JasonF said:


> There are a _lot_ of traffic offenses that end up being your word against the officer's. I was ticketed once for "unsafe passing on the right". And technically I _did_ pass on the right...to get around a line of cars stopped and waiting to turn left. I didn't fight it because I figured even if I came to court well-prepared with an explanation and diagrams, the judge/magistrate would point blank ask me "did you pass on the right?" "well, yes." "Then you're guilty, fine plus court costs. NEXT!"


Well that's terrible reasoning. You are playing right into their scheme, pandering to their power trip, encouraging them to do it more if you just let them get away with that without resistance. It goes against our founding values of innocent until proven guilty. 
If you legally passed on the right, and no undue harm came from your actions, what result was unsafe? If you crashed or went out of control, of course. But if you did so quicker than they are use to seeing, that is meaningly. The ability of how cars can perform safely varies widely.
Now I will agree (hopefully) the mast majority of police officers are serving for the protection of the public and to uphold the law. We've entrusted them with extra power to apply these decisions. And in the presence of power, we know humans are terrible at doing the right thing.
Sadly it is also a job where those on a power trip can make a career of feeding it, and be rewarded for doing so. And this culture varies greatly by state, or by city. But the bottom line is they are are all rewarded for making decisions without evidence or even wrongdoing. They do not face resistance.
If they had to defend their actions every time, they would think bit more about how they are applying the law. Most people just roll over and pay their tickets, not realizing it will cost them thousands in raised insurance over the next six years, and multiply when it is used as reasoning to be more harsh the next time it happens. 
Instead, take your legal right and the opportunity to bring your decision to a judge. Every time. Give yourself a chance to explain things. Better yet, gather and present evidence. Let the decision prevail to a hopefully more level head. Even if only a few of the decisions go your way, at least you tried. At least you exercised your rights, at least you explained yourself. And maybe the officer will think just a little bit more knowing he must defend his decision as well once in a while.

I have unfairly accused by irate officers more times than I can remember. In this state you must go to court twice to get in front of a judge. It's a pain. But I never, ever regret it.

This is why many years together I cobbled up my own DVR and analog camera to start recording the truth, and why I have several dashcams in my car. It's not that I expect accidents or break-ins, it's that I've seen plenty of crazy things on the roads, but nothing hurts more than a law being applied unfairly. We now have the ability to record the truth for a fraction of the cost of one unfair ticket.


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## JasonF

JWardell said:


> Well that's terrible reasoning. You are playing right into their scheme, pandering to their power trip, encouraging them to do it more if you just let them get away with that without resistance. It goes against our founding values of innocent until proven guilty.


In Florida there is a lot of risk to taking something like that to court. The judge/magistrate in traffic court has carte blanche to adjust the ticket's fine and points as they please. So if you're unlucky the judge could decide to exponentially increase the fine or points. And I _have_ been in front of magistrates before (while living in Ohio) who did actually distill things down to a simple "You did pass on the right, therefore you're guilty".

As for the cop's reasoning? The left turners I went around were going to an after-hours school event (_way_ after hours, it was around 8 pm) and there were enough of them to stack up past the end of the turn lane and into the travel lane. The next intersection is so close that it's visible from there. The school's left turn lane cuts into a grass island, but the next intersection has _two_ left turn lanes, and no island. So when you do the maneuver I did, you have to move right one lane, and then move left 3 lanes. My guess would be the cop saw a few people attempt that maneuver and nearly cause a crash, and decided the next person who does it is getting a ticket - because he was _really mad_ when he came to talk to me. I didn't have any kind of near miss though, I actually answered "do you know why I pulled you over" with "not really"...it was a completely drama-free passing.


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## StromTrooperM3

JasonF said:


> actually answered "do you know why I pulled you over" with "not really"...it was a completely drama-free passing.


You should always answer that way. Never incriminate yourself


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## JasonF

StromTrooperM3 said:


> You should always answer that way. Never incriminate yourself


I learned that the hard way long ago, but in an unusual way. While I was in Ohio, a city cop ticketed me for running a red light, and I took it to court because the light was absolutely yellow. Went to the trouble to have the cop testify and ask him if he had an unobstructed view (he didn't, he was 3 cars back) and thought I had him. The whole case was based on that I went through on a yellow, and the cop didn't see it clearly. Except I didn't know that in Ohio, if you cross into the intersection while the light is _yellow_, it's the same offense as running a red. So the basis of my own defense caused me to lose the case - I should have left the defense at the officer couldn't see clearly. Fortunately the judge thought I argued it well enough to removing the 3 points from the ticket, but I still had to pay the ticket and court fees.

Every time I've been pulled over except for one, it's been a genuine surprise as to the reason. The only time I knew for certain was when I had GPS tell me about an exit really late, and I had to accelerate around a truck to get to the right. As I was moving from ahead of the truck to the right lane, I accidentally cut off a marked sherriff car that was trying to pass quickly on the right. He stopped me to ask if I saw him, and I said yes, but it was too late by then. He let me off.


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## Drake12321

I know how erytho it is, accelerating in Tesla especially. Therefore, these restrictions are already reaching!


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## FRC

Maybe I'm in the minority here or maybe it's a regional difference. I suppose I've gotten 6-8 tickets in my 46 year driving career. I have deserved every single one that I've gotten and I've skated on several I should have gotten. I've never argued my innocence in front of a Judge because I've never been innocent in front of a Judge. If someday I do get cited for something I believe I'm innocent of, I'll weigh the time and financial costs of fighting the ticket against the cost of conceding and make a rational decision on which way to go. And, BTW, I'm certain there are lousy cops out there. I've just never encountered one myself.


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## MelindaV

JasonF said:


> There are a _lot_ of traffic offenses that end up being your word against the officer's.


this is exactly what happened last time I was pulled over (thanks Officer Nathan Smith)
Where I get off the freeway at work, there are three lanes going straight, left lane can turn left (intersecting street is one way to the left) and there is another street to the right that has a dedicated lane. So I always am in the right hand exit lane (2nd lane from the right when counting the other road merging in). I turn right a block up, so always watching who if anyone is in that merging right hand lane. On this particular day that Officer Scott was a couple cars behind me, there was a moving truck blocking the right hand lane at about the middle of the first block. There was also a car in the right merging lane right next to me with his left signal on. I slowed to let him over before we both got to the stopped truck. He got in front of me and once I was past the truck, i signaled to turn right. Officer Scott insisted that I did not signal and my intent was to get into the right lane immediately after going thru the intersection. (where there was a stopped truck blocking the lane). I told him politely that I did signal prior to making the turn, and when I slowed for the right lane guy to get over, my brake lights would have been on as my signal that I was slowing. 
I went to court with a dashcam video, where you could hear my turn signal ticking, and see it reflecting in the car ahead of me, and I still got fined for not signaling. The judge was very clear that it was his word against mine, and regardless of the video, you are to signal for a turn at least 100' before you turn. The blocks here are 200' long, so signaling at 100' would have appeared that I was turning into the driveway before the intersection (which also had cars waiting to turn out of the driveway, and would have cut in front of me if they thought I was turning there).
They gave me the option to plead guilty and pay a lesser fine, and I refused since I did not do anything wrong. overall, it was a total BS ticket, and a few months later when I saw said Officer Scott standing in line at the same restaurant I was at for lunch, I gave him the stink eye. I dont think he cared though.


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## FRC

Please Lord, let me never see @MelindaV 's stink-eye.


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## StromTrooperM3

MelindaV said:


> few months later when I saw said Officer Scott standing in line at the same restaurant I was at for lunch, I gave him the stink eye. I dont think he cared though.


I would have bought his lunch and proceed with said stink eye 😂


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## MelindaV

Oh, and should add, probably the actual reason he nailed me was the signal turned yellow as I crossed the intersection. He specificslly said he was 3 cars behind me and I caused cars to block The intersection... in other words maybe not the car directly behind me, but the other two and officer scott would have started across the 4 lane street with the light already yellow.


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## KWATTSN

Wait, what? It’s illegal to enter an intersection when the light is yellow? Then what the **** is the point of a yellow light? That’s just encouraging drivers to slam on their brakes and get rear-ended, rather than warning that the light will soon be red. Just make if go from green to red if that’s what the law is going to be.


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## StromTrooperM3

KWATTSN said:


> Wait, what? It's illegal to enter an intersection when the light is yellow? Then what the **** is the point of a yellow light?


Everything is discretionary. It's been discussed by a few people, however being issued a traffic ticket is ALWAYS discretionary. You can be issued a warning, or a ticket.

Per California law. Obviously can change by area.. But this is how i learned it.

*Solid Yellow*-A yellow traffic signal light means "CAUTION." The red traffic signal light is about to appear. When you see the yellow traffic signal light, stop if you can do so safely. If you cannot stop safely, cross the intersection cautiously.

There is no black and white answer.


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## WonkoTheSane

A few days ago I was at a light waiting to turn onto a highway on-ramp. The turn and subsequent on-ramp are two lanes and beside me was a hopped-up Mustang, revving his engine at the light. As we turned onto the ramp I floored it. Left him totally in the dust. It is a pretty long ramp and when I reached 100 mph I decided I'd proven my point and eased off the accelerator. After a few seconds he passed me. Maybe it gave him some consolation to finally pass me, but I knew I had him beat.


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