# Radar detectors and Tesla glass?



## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

I have searched a bit online and have not found anything definitive, does anyone on here know how radar detectors do with Tesla glass?

Is it time to bid my Valentine One farewell?

I suppose the question is actually two-fold:

1) Does the coating in the glass render the radar detector ineffective

2) Does autopilot (which uses radar) lead to false alarms (I assume so) and thus even if the detector worked it would be so annoying you would stop using it. 

As an aside, my dad has a brand new Model S, so if anyone isn't sure but is curious I could use his car for some testing. 

Thanks in advance!


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

people still use radar detectors? 

1) I know some transmitters (toll passes) don't work thru the glass, but radar is different so don't think it would have the same problems (maybe different ones)
2) the police radar that radar detectors send out is a different frequency as what vehicles (it's not just Tesla) are sending out


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## Badback (Apr 7, 2016)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I have searched a bit online and have not found anything definitive, does anyone on here know how radar detectors do with Tesla glass?
> 
> Is it time to bid my Valentine One farewell?
> 
> ...


AFAIK, Tesla radar operates in the 2.5GHz band, same as other civilian devices like WiFi and GDOs. Police radar operates in the 10GHz band for stationary units (car mounted) and in the 25GHz band for hand held units. So, interference with your radar detector is unlikely because it would have been designed to reject the 2.5GHz frequencies.

The UV rejection qualities of the Tesla glass is probably due to some mineral added to the glass, or some metalized film sandwiched in the glass layers. I would assume that his would also attenuate radar frequencies. see: https://www.carid.com/articles/radar-detectors.html


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> people still use radar detectors?


Should come in handy with instant torque and a lead foot 



Badback said:


> AFAIK, Tesla radar operates in the 2.5GHz band, same as other civilian devices like WiFi and GDOs. Police radar operates in the 10GHz band for stationary units (car mounted) and in the 25GHz band for hand held units. So, interference with your radar detector is unlikely because it would have been designed to reject the 2.5GHz frequencies.
> 
> The UV rejection qualities of the Tesla glass is probably due to some mineral added to the glass, or some metalized film sandwiched in the glass layers. I would assume that his would also attenuate radar frequencies. see: https://www.carid.com/articles/radar-detectors.html


Thanks!!


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## TrevP (Oct 20, 2015)

Illegal in Canada so have no opinion


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

TrevP said:


> Illegal in Canada so have no opinion


Ouch, that's a bummer. What is the penalty for being caught with one? What about a concealed mount? Not worth the risk?


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> Ouch, that's a bummer. What is the penalty for being caught with one? What about a concealed mount? Not worth the risk?


You don't really need radar detectors nowadays. Just run Waze.


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## AEDennis (Apr 10, 2016)

garsh said:


> You don't really need radar detectors nowadays. Just run Waze.


I suppose it would still be useful for cross-country trips. Lots of open spaces out there with no Internet or minimal waze users.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

AEDennis said:


> I suppose it would still be useful for cross-country trips. Lots of open spaces out there with no Internet or minimal waze users.


Then you go old-school, get a CB radio, and listen to the truckers.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

garsh said:


> You don't really need radar detectors nowadays. Just run Waze.


I find Waze to have a very childish user interface and I really don't another reason to allow my phone to distract me. Besides my Valentine One is right 100% of the time and Waze is only as good as the other drivers around me.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I find Waze to have a very childish user interface


It does. I always go into settings and turn off all of that extra crap.
The only thing I can't really turn off is showing me gas stations (I drive a Leaf dammit!).
I found a work-around: Choose a "favorite" gas station brand, but make sure it's a brand that doesn't exist in your part of the country.


> Besides my Valentine One is right 100% of the time and Waze is only as good as the other drivers around me.


Radar detectors are illegal in some states, and radar detectors don't work for lidar or vascar, while Waze does.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

garsh said:


> It does. I always go into settings and turn off all of that extra crap.
> The only thing I can't really turn off is showing me gas stations (I drive a Leaf dammit!).
> I found a work-around: Choose a "favorite" gas station brand, but make sure it's a brand that doesn't exist in your part of the country.
> 
> Radar detectors are illegal in some states, and radar detectors don't work for lidar or vascar, while Waze does.


I will check out turning off the "extras" and see.

Fortunately radar detectors are legal in Florida.

The Valentine One does detect laser, though I assume the point you are making is that detecting it simply means confirmation of the ticket you are about to get as it's too late for you.

The best solution (if legal in your area) is radar detector plus laser jammers, though I've never run laser jammers before.

My biggest fear with Waze is that you are dependent upon others meaning it simply does not work 100% of the time. Someone has to be the one that first finds something.


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## TrevP (Oct 20, 2015)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> Ouch, that's a bummer. What is the penalty for being caught with one? What about a concealed mount? Not worth the risk?


Correction, they're illegal in all but 3 provinces...

https://www.kmph.ca/pages/faq

$170 fine where I am and the cops employ radar detector detectors. These days most police use LIDAR which is another reason why Ontario has a legal requirement for front plates, gives something for the LIDAR to reflect off of. Still dumb in my opinion (front plates, that is)


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

@SoFlaModel3 - I was thinking about this and think one of the reasons I don't see people using radar detectors here (honestly have no idea if they are legal or not) is more that unless you are well outside of the cities here and on a wide open strip of freeway, you have little chance of being pulled over. The state patrol are the only ones stopping excessive speeders. The local city/county police here are stretched too thin to waste their time with traffic stops.
A while back at a neighborhood meeting a cop was there and he was asked about the constant speeders on a particular 40mph street where cars rarely are under 50 and most closer to 60. He said they have to put their time into crimes and can't have officers wasting their time pulling speeders over.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> Fortunately radar detectors are legal in Florida.


But it does look like it is illegal to have anything on your windshield in Florida


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

And a map including laser jammers


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> But it does look like it is illegal to have anything on your windshield in Florida


Interesting! Our toll system requires a "sunpass" which is mounted to the windshield. I think every car you pass has something mounted (navigation, phone, radar detector, etc). Very interesting though. For the Tesla, I was going to look at a blendmount kit where it would be attached to the mirror and not the windshield.



MelindaV said:


> And a map including laser jammers


I guess it's been a while or I never realized they were illegal federally the whole time.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I guess it's been a while or I never realized they were illegal federally the whole time.


marajuana is federally illegal too, but you can legally (as the state sees it) buy and use it here, but still subject to it being a federal offense


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

The M3 will be the first car I will drive without a radar detector in 15+ years.
I doubt the glass will have much affect, possibly a 10% attenuation. That's not the issue.
The issue is the car generates its own radar. As do many many other vehicles on the road lately. 
I find even the latest escorts do not do a great job of filtering these out. It's incredibly annoying, and at the minimum you start to ignore your detector as you would a cheap cobra and then it is useless.
Even if they could filter perfectly, each transmitter raises the noise floor, and severely limits the ability to pick out a radar gun.
Finally, 99% of the time, cops are using laser. Only small towns seem to be using radar any more.
As it is, I have already kept my RD off now unless I'm driving around towns on a trip.

Laser jammers are still worth their weight in gold, at least until lidar sensors become common on non-tesla autonomous cars. They are NOT illegal. Your TV remote would have to be illegal too...


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## Gabzqc (Oct 15, 2016)

As a European, where we dont have Radar as much as the US for speed detection, I simply dont understand what is so hard about keeping to the speed limit.
Surely they are there for a safety reason and should be adhered to? What about fuel or battery efficiency better at lower speeds...? 
You could avoid all of the worry about "is my radar detector working properly" and all the noises in the cab, and just let the car do the driving with cruise control on...

And maybe.... M3 will keep the car at the speed limit and not allow overspeed... another safety benefit to add to the long list already on the car...


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

Sadly, Gabzqc, US speed limits are rarely set to standards and have never changed back after they were forced lower from the gas crisis in the 70s. Most US highways are still at 55mph (88kph), and most traffic drives at 70-75mph on those roads. Authorities love the profits they make when they can literally pull over any car on the road and make an easy $200-300. Driving the speed limit is not only frustratingly slow, but actually a safety issue as the rest of traffic tries to get around you. Driving in Europe is a vacation in itself, not only for the more logically set speed limits, but the intelligence of fellow drivers as well.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

JWardell said:


> Sadly, Gabzqc, US speed limits are rarely set to standards and have never changed back after they were forced lower from the gas crisis in the 70s. Most US highways are still at 55mph (88kph)


Many of the interstates in PA have been raised to 65 since the national 55mph limit was removed, with additional raises to 70mph for some interstates within the last few years.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

Gabzqc said:


> As a European, where we dont have Radar as much as the US for speed detection, I simply dont understand what is so hard about keeping to the speed limit.
> Surely they are there for a safety reason and should be adhered to? What about fuel or battery efficiency better at lower speeds...?
> You could avoid all of the worry about "is my radar detector working properly" and all the noises in the cab, and just let the car do the driving with cruise control on...
> 
> And maybe.... M3 will keep the car at the speed limit and not allow overspeed... another safety benefit to add to the long list already on the car...


Highways here are generally 65 MPH, but I tend to travel at 75-80 MPH. Typical surface streets are 40-45 MPH and I tend to travel at about 50 MPH.



JWardell said:


> The M3 will be the first car I will drive without a radar detector in 15+ years.
> I doubt the glass will have much affect, possibly a 10% attenuation. That's not the issue.
> The issue is the car generates its own radar. As do many many other vehicles on the road lately.
> I find even the latest escorts do not do a great job of filtering these out. It's incredibly annoying, and at the minimum you start to ignore your detector as you would a cheap cobra and then it is useless.
> ...


I have noticed increased false alarms from smart cruise control vehicles. Down here in Florida, radar (Ka band) is prevalent though.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

JWardell said:


> most traffic drives at 70-75mph


the freeway thru Portland is 55mph (I think) and I rarely have the opportunity to drive any faster than 40mph due to traffic - closer to 20 most days. it's just after 7pm here and about to leave work and can see the freeway is moving just slightly faster than it was an hour or two ago.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> the freeway thru Portland is 55mph (I think) and I rarely have the opportunity to drive any faster than 40mph due to traffic - closer to 20 most days. it's just after 7pm here and about to leave work and can see the freeway is moving just slightly faster than it was an hour or two ago.


I sympathize. My parents live in southeast Portland and used to commute to Vancouver for work. At some point, the traffic became so bad that they just just started riding their bikes to the office whenever the weather was tolerable... and they continued to do this even after they bought a snazzy, state-of-the-art (at the time) Model S back in 2013... because going 0-to-60 in 5 seconds into a wall of traffic is neither fun nor good for your health. 

Maybe you can find a way to occasionally shift your workday an hour or two in either direction when you get your Model 3? I worked the night shift at the UPS depot in North Portland the summer after high school, and I have fond memories of bombing home on a completely deserted I-5 at 3am in my Civic, typically reaching about [I-plead-the-fifth] MPH on that straight section before the Rose Quarter. Oh, and I didn't have a radar detector.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

at least your parents were going across traffic. If I had a job in Vancouver, I would be so happy, but that's not going to happen - instead of going with traffic from Vancouver to SE 
Typically morning 'rush hour' into Ptld starts around 5am and goes until 10am. Afternoon from 2pm until 7pm - so shifting a little one way or another isn't really an option. Generally I am on the road from 8am - 9am and 630pm - 7:15pm. I've thought about going in maybe 2+ hours earlier and leaving earlier, but don't think it would save any time and would probably still end up working past 5pm...


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

I leave my house for work at ~7 am so I have some stretches of highway that are free of congestion at that time. We also have the relatively new "pay to speed lanes". Now I put that in quotes because that's not really what it is, but it's essentially a segment of the highway from end to end without exits and the speed limit is 70 MPH. It's an invitation to fly and the highway patrol know it and they camp out.


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## Badback (Apr 7, 2016)

Gabzqc said:


> As a European, where we dont have Radar as much as the US for speed detection, I simply dont understand what is so hard about keeping to the speed limit.
> Surely they are there for a safety reason and should be adhered to? What about fuel or battery efficiency better at lower speeds...?
> You could avoid all of the worry about "is my radar detector working properly" and all the noises in the cab, and just let the car do the driving with cruise control on...
> 
> And maybe.... M3 will keep the car at the speed limit and not allow overspeed... another safety benefit to add to the long list already on the car...


I agree with you about keeping to the speed limit and avoiding the anxiety. But, in the US, some speed limits are kept artificially low to generate revenue for municipalities, who are allowed to set their own speed limits. It's like an extra tax.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

Badback said:


> I agree with you about keeping to the speed limit and avoiding the anxiety. But, in the US, some speed limits are kept artificially low to generate revenue for municipalities, who are allowed to set their own speed limits. It's like an extra tax.


I would also make a sweeping generalization and say Americans are horrible drivers.

The most dangerous people on the road camp in the left lane and drive too slow. I think speed limits could be increased and the unsafe drivers ticketed.


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## Gabzqc (Oct 15, 2016)

JWardell said:


> Sadly, Gabzqc, US speed limits are rarely set to standards an... the rest of traffic tries to get around you. Driving in Europe is a vacation in itself, not only for the more logically set speed limits, but the intelligence of fellow drivers as well.





Badback said:


> I agree with you about keeping to the speed limit and avoiding the anxiety. But, in the US, some speed limits are kept artificially low to generate revenue for municipalities, who are allowed to set their own speed limits. It's like an extra tax.





SoFlaModel3 said:


> I would also make a sweeping generalization and say Americans are horrible drivers.
> 
> The most dangerous people on the road camp in the left lane and drive too slow. I think speed limits could be increased and the unsafe drivers ticketed.


Wow.... I am lost for words... thank you all for the information, and next time i'm there, I will watch out more carefully for the drivers and speed limits!


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

Yesterday we did an up and back to Disney World for the day with the kids and we took my wife's car so I tested out Waze. 

The drive is 200 miles each way and all highway. 

My travel speed was never more than 7-10 MPH over the speed limit, so I used this as more of a dry run with Waze. 

Well.... Waze was terrible. 

On two separate occasions we drove past highway patrol that were hidden. My Valentine One would have picked them up probably a minimum of 1/2 mile down the road. Well they were unreported in Waze. Had I been really speeding that would not have been good. 

In addition, the number of falsely reported items is out of control. From accidents to hazards, I counted at least 20 times Waze warned me about things that weren't there. 

If this is your sense of security, it's a false sense of security for sure.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

with Waze using crowd-sourced information, results will vary depending on the area and percentage of drivers using it in that area. 
Where I drive it is always dead on accurate.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> with Waze using crowd-sourced information, results will vary depending on the area and percentage of drivers using it in that area.
> Where I drive it is always dead on accurate.


That's the thing even if it's accurate it's still not dependable. Someone has to be "first" to spot the cop/hazard and thus you can never fully trust it.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

then don't speed...?


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

MelindaV said:


> with Waze using crowd-sourced information, results will vary depending on the area and percentage of drivers using it in that area.
> Where I drive it is always dead on accurate.


Yes, it probably works best for work commuting. You get the same users reporting the same way every day, and therefore it's more dependable.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> then don't speed...?


That's not possible, I'll just depend on my V1


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

garsh said:


> Yes, it probably works best for work commuting. You get the same users reporting the same way every day, and therefore it's more dependable.


I still disagree. It's only good if someone sees something before you, which means it can never be 100%.


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## eXntrc (Jan 14, 2019)

@SoFlaModel3 did you end up putting the V1 in your M3? Did you decide to mount it any place in particular due to the glass? I see a recommendation to put it to the right of the rear-view mirror (same place recommended for toll tags). But then it's harder for the driver to see it there.

Thanks for any update!


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

JWardell said:


> Sadly, Gabzqc, US speed limits are rarely set to standards and have never changed back after they were forced lower from the gas crisis in the 70s. Most US highways are still at 55mph (88kph), and most traffic drives at 70-75mph on those roads. Authorities love the profits they make when they can literally pull over any car on the road and make an easy $200-300. Driving the speed limit is not only frustratingly slow, but actually a safety issue as the rest of traffic tries to get around you. Driving in Europe is a vacation in itself, not only for the more logically set speed limits, but the intelligence of fellow drivers as well.


Love it when an old thread comes to life.

First on glass- looks like this was last updated before the 3 ever hit the road. The key turned out to be that the 3 didn't end up with the same coated glass on the front that the S and X have that prevents almost everything from working through the glass. Tesla does still point out to use the spot to the right of the mirror, but I think truly most of the glass is usable.

On the speed limit, you all need to come on down to TX. 75 on most Interstates and a toll area down around Austin it's 80.


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## eXntrc (Jan 14, 2019)

Thanks @GDN ! Glad to hear there is no issue with the glass. That's interesting because when I went to pick up my toll tag they automatically gave me an external license plate version rather than the windshield sticker. She even mentioned the coating of the glass. I'm guessing they've just been trained that Tesla = coated glass and haven't been informed that the Model 3 doesn't have it. This is really good to know.



GDN said:


> On the speed limit, you all need to come on down to TX. 75 on most Interstates and a toll area down around Austin it's 80.


Hehe. I'm a fellow Houstonian and I do love our speed limits here! I bought a Uniden R3 as added insurance. I've never owned anything like the Model 3 Performance before. It's so quiet and accelerates so effortlessly that I constantly find I'm going faster than I think I am. The radar detector is there to remind me to look at my speedometer. LOL. Well, that and to let me know if I'm being watched when I might be giving a "Launch Demo".


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

eXntrc said:


> @SoFlaModel3 did you end up putting the V1 in your M3? Did you decide to mount it any place in particular due to the glass? I see a recommendation to put it to the right of the rear-view mirror (same place recommended for toll tags). But then it's harder for the driver to see it there.
> 
> Thanks for any update!


I ended up selling my V1 and never installed it in the Tesla. If I kept it, I'd have it just below the rear view though.


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## SR22pilot (Aug 16, 2018)

There is a straight road near me that is 4 lanes each way with a divided center having turn areas. The speed limit is 45. It is definitely a revenue generator for the city.


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## FurryOne (Apr 19, 2019)

The Escort Max360 works fine in the M3 - no false triggers.


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