# What happens if I don’t download an update?



## Nom (Oct 30, 2018)

I’m told on my app that I can download. 2019.40.50.1. I’m away from my car, no rush for me. From posts on here I had the idea of not downloading this one and waiting for the next.

Can I? Will my car just shift over to the next version when it becomes available to me, or do I need to download 50.1 now that they have queued me up?


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

Eventually you have to tell it to start updating. If you wait long enough, presumably it will eventually download the next one and nag you about that one instead.


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## sduck (Nov 23, 2017)

The next version is going to be even buggier. And the version you're on sucks.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

Nom said:


> I'm told on my app that I can download. 2019.40.50.1. I'm away from my car, no rush for me. From posts on here I had the idea of not downloading this one and waiting for the next.
> 
> Can I? Will my car just shift over to the next version when it becomes available to me, or do I need to download 50.1 now that they have queued me up?


I know this doesn't answer your question, but why wait. This version is packed with great stuff!!


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## Nom (Oct 30, 2018)

Kind of curious more than anything. I’m in no rush (away from car). Figure with all the bigs I’m hearing the next one will be better (bug fixes). 

No big deal. We shall see .....


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Nom said:


> Kind of curious more than anything. I'm in no rush (away from car). Figure with all the bigs I'm hearing the next one will be better (bug fixes).
> 
> No big deal. We shall see .....


It's kind of funny that we've yet to hear the experiences of _anybody_ who has chosen to simply not install an update. 

You're blazing a new trail @Nom! Please come back and let us know if anything unexpected happens!
I salute you sir!


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

garsh said:


> It's kind of funny that we've yet to hear the experiences of _anybody_ who has chosen to simply not install an update.


I've done this, it was a while ago. IIRC, they eventually pulled the update and I just got the next one. If they didn't pull it, I still just skipped one version.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

some releases are required for a future release, but we don't know which that may be until that future release comes out. IIRC, that came up with one of the earlier major releases this year. it required at the least to have what appeared to be a previous minor release, but must have included some new code required for the major release.
anyone that had skipped that minor release wasn't able to get any newer versions without loading that one.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

garsh said:


> It's kind of funny that we've yet to hear the experiences of _anybody_ who has chosen to simply not install an update.
> 
> You're blazing a new trail @Nom! Please come back and let us know if anything unexpected happens!
> I salute you sir!


I've done it too. For example, there was one in late 2018 that was supposed to deal with cold weather but from reports introduced a lot of bugs with the charge port. I waited, the next (bug fix) update eventually showed up, and I installed that.


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## Rick Steinwand (May 19, 2018)

MelindaV said:


> some releases are required for a future release, but we don't know which that may be until that future release comes out. IIRC, that came up with one of the earlier major releases this year. it required at the least to have what appeared to be a previous minor release, but must have included some new code required for the major release.
> anyone that had skipped that minor release wasn't able to get any newer versions without loading that one.


Since this is the first build for 10.2, it just might be required. TBH, the number of people having issues is the minority. I say just go for it.


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## sduck (Nov 23, 2017)

All the "issues" I've seen are related to the new stuff that's been added, none of which is mandatory to use, or will hinder your ability to get from point A to point B. So go for it!


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

sduck said:


> All the "issues" I've seen are related to the new stuff that's been added, none of which is mandatory to use, or will hinder your ability to get from point A to point B. So go for it!


That's not true. A large chunk of the reported issues have to do with the voice recognition going away altogether, including features that were previously there like bug reports, navigation, and Slacker control.

Most likely that's due to server overloads, but it's curious that no one has reported having those problems prior to when they personally upgraded.

I'm away from my car for the next week or so, so I'm not going to update remotely, just in case there's a fluke in the install that breaks sentry or whatever. But even if I were home this is one I'd consider waiting on for a bit.


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## sduck (Nov 23, 2017)

DocScott said:


> That's not true. A large chunk of the reported issues have to do with the voice recognition going away


I've personally never considered voice recognition to be vital to the use of the car. Maybe I've missed how others use it - apologies to those who can't operate the vehicle without it. I can still get to point B from point A safely without using voice control. In fact, the only thing I've ever used voice control for is bug reports. And I verified that that still works, along with all the new ones, soon after the upgrade.

Bugs that would cause me to NOT update - the steering wheel stops working sporadically. The radio being stuck on the Culture Club channel, with no working volume control. Brakes - who needs stinking brakes anyway? As per my first post in this thread, all of this is coming in the next update!


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## msjulie (Feb 6, 2018)

garsh said:


> It's kind of funny that we've yet to hear the experiences of _anybody_ who has chosen to simply not install an update.


I disabled downloads a while back (made car forget my WiFi) because I was hoping/waiting on the ability to turn off some new features. I think it took 2 updates before I got back into it.. Only 1 time did the car tell me to get on WiFi to get an update but I ignored it and it was silent there after until I re-enabled WiFi


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

DocScott said:


> but it's curious that no one has reported having those problems prior to when they personally upgraded.


I think previously because it was only a small set of command it could be handled by the car. Now that it's more, it's switched over to the server.


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## Kizzy (Jul 25, 2016)

iChris93 said:


> I think previously because it was only a small set of command it could be handled by the car. Now that it's more, it's switched over to the server.


Which voice commands didn't need Internet back then? I mean, in theory maybe the actual voice processing didn't, but I could not activate voice commands without Internet access. I know for a fact that bug reports don't work without a functional internet connection.


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

Kizzy said:


> Which voice commands didn't need Internet back then? I mean, in theory maybe the actual voice processing didn't, but I could not activate voice commands without Internet access. I know for a fact that bug reports don't work without a functional internet connection.


Oh, you're right.


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

iChris93 said:


> I've done this, it was a while ago. IIRC, they eventually pulled the update and I just got the next one. If they didn't pull it, I still just skipped one version.


I just got back to my car today. I had 40.50.1 waiting for me for several days and could not download/install because I was not on WiFi. Finally got it installed today and a few hours later I got an update notification for 40.50.5.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

Based on comments in these forums, I've held off on the whole 50.x family of upgrades. After bugging me about 50.1, the car is now offering 50.7, so you definitely don't need to go through intermediate stages; it just rolls over to the next update offer at some point.

I'm still holding off. I'm willing to take the risk of ping-ponging, and the new phone features are new, so if they don't work I'm not losing anything. But I don't want to have my existing voice commands (navigation, Slacker control) messed up.

Have those problems settled down? Are voice commands working more consistently now, at least for people on 50.7?


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## John Di Cecco (Sep 25, 2017)

I have 40k miles on my car. It is much improved as compared to the day i bought it. With rapid change there will always be minor bugs. Last year NOA was nothing like it is now. I am almost ready to use the term refined to describe it. 

With this latest update, while i can't prove it, i think my range is improved. I am excited for the updates and would never consider delaying one. 

As for voice commands, i like open glove box and fan control... that's about all i use. Any issues will be in the server side and will get cleaned up over course of time with no updates needed. 

Wipers are another thing that while not perfect are much improved to the point i am no longer irratated by them


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

I believe you'll be able to skip and hold off on certain releases, but Tesla won't let you get too far behind. My gut tells me not more than likely one major release. They will then push it over LTE and then they will get more push about on screen reminders to install. I figure you put it in park and a reminder will pop up. There will be a fine line here as they will have to be very careful about force starting the install as they don't know when you want to drive next, but I do suspect it would come that that too after you are so far behind. They are just like all computer support you've got to keep the SW somewhat up to date, you can't support 30 releases. They will also likely cut you off from logging a support call if you are having trouble and if you go in for any kind of service the first thing they are going to do is update your SW. 

I don't think anyone is talking about letting it go that long and I understand not being on the most current all of the time, but if anyone wants to run a long term experiment I bet you can't get more than 90 days or one major rev behind before they start pushing it in some manner you can't stop.


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## Rick Steinwand (May 19, 2018)

DocScott said:


> Based on comments in these forums, I've held off on the whole 50.x family of upgrades. After bugging me about 50.1, the car is now offering 50.7, so you definitely don't need to go through intermediate stages; it just rolls over to the next update offer at some point.
> 
> I'm still holding off. I'm willing to take the risk of ping-ponging, and the new phone features are new, so if they don't work I'm not losing anything. But I don't want to have my existing voice commands (navigation, Slacker control) messed up.
> 
> Have those problems settled down? Are voice commands working more consistently now, at least for people on 50.7?


Remember, most of what you're reading is complaints. You're going to see that a LOT more than the complements. I don't use voice commands, but have no ping-ponging and really enjoy the new text commands. I think you're worrying about nothing and commend you for your self-control.

IF I had HW3, which I don't, I'd be all over this for the visualizations alone.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

Rick Steinwand said:


> Remember, most of what you're reading is complaints. You're going to see that a LOT more than the complements. I don't use voice commands, but have no ping-ponging and really enjoy the new text commands. I think you're worrying about nothing and commend you for your self-control.
> 
> IF I had HW3, which I don't, I'd be all over this for the visualizations alone.


An advantage of a forum like TOO is that you get to know the "regulars." Enough of them have reported problems with the 40.50.x firmwares that it's not just selection bias--the problems must, in fact, be pretty wide-spread, although clearly not universal.


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

We now have an answer to what happens if we don't update. It is becoming more and more apparent we don't actually own these vehicles.

https://electrek.co/2020/02/14/tesla-force-software-updates-owners-resisting-them/


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

StromTrooperM3 said:


> We now have an answer to what happens if we don't update. It is becoming more and more apparent we don't actually own these vehicles.


Tesla is planning a change to the communication infrastructure. So if you don't upgrade to a version of software that knows how to use the new APIs, then surprise, surprise - your car won't be able to communicate with Tesla's servers, and therefore all of the features that rely on Tesla's backend systems will cease to work.


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## msjulie (Feb 6, 2018)

garsh said:


> Tesla is planning a change to the communication infrastructure. So if you don't upgrade to a version of software that knows how to use the new APIs, then surprise, surprise - your car won't be able to communicate with Tesla's servers, and therefore all of the features that rely on Tesla's backend systems will cease to work.


I believe that can be part of it but I wonder if that's all of it - if they are required (legally) to modify how autopilot works and you resist as end user to accept it, who is liable? Tesla?

For a while I had my car forget our WiFi because I didn't want the update that forced automatic lane departure things on me; once I saw it was optional and my choice remembered I updated. Tesla warned me of exactly the above when I mentioned to customer service I would not update until new features were optional etc. I was update-proof for about 3 months.

Also it's easier on Tesla to have minimal #s of versions of software out there when dealing with service etc. Having a backend server that can understand multiple API versions isn't rocket science but it has a quality assurance cost, etc. and I bet they just don't want to deal.


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

garsh said:


> Tesla is planning a change to the communication infrastructure.


Last I checked Bluetooth is a local communication structure. If my Tesla app no longer works as my key then there is a problem. OTA has it's benefits, but no one should be forced to update their software if they don't want to.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

StromTrooperM3 said:


> Last I checked Bluetooth is a local communication structure. If my Tesla app no longer works as my key then there is a problem.


Nowhere did it say that bluetooth would be affected. Nor did it say that phone-as-key would be affected.

_If not updated prior to 1-May-2020, this vehicle may no longer be able to receive over-the-air software updates, access the Tesla Mobile App & associated features, utilize voice commands, receive streaming media content, and other connectivity dependent features may be impacted._​


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## DanSz (Feb 1, 2019)

It basically says if you don’t update, you won’t be able to update. 

Unfortunately, not updating literally means that Tesla may improve its network/systems to a point where your car doesn’t work the same way it did before. 

That’s not the same as updating and losing a feature. That‘s called being left behind. 

Being let behind might mean no more map updates and no more supercharging trip planning. IMHO That’s Tesla’s biggest advantage when it come to long trips. Around town, the whole navigation screen could go black and it wouldn’t matter.


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

garsh said:


> access the Tesla Mobile App


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

> this vehicle may no longer be able to ... access the Tesla Mobile App


I can see where a liberal interpretation would cause you to believe that all App functionality would be lost, but I don't think that will be the case. The list of things mentioned makes it clear that they're planning a major network API overhaul. But they cannot and will not change the Bluetooth interactions. They can't change how the "key" works, because that would also end up breaking all of the keyfobs. And music streaming & hands-free calling is a generic bluetooth feature that doesn't even require the Tesla app.

You won't be able to use the Mobile App to perform the various functions that rely on an internet connection. Anything that only requires a local bluetooth connection will continue to work.


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

garsh said:


> I can see where a liberal interpretation would cause you to believe that all App functionality would be lost,


That's the thing with written words, they are literal. As someone who has learned the lessons of contracts with my clients it's all about wording.


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

StromTrooperM3 said:


> It is becoming more and more apparent we don't actually own these vehicles.


 Or anything (everything?) else that contains "software". You paid for the license to use the software that you can't ever own.

My M3 gets more like beer everyday: I can't own it, I can only rent it,


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

StromTrooperM3 said:


> That's the thing with written words, they are literal. As someone who has learned the lessons of contracts with my clients it's all about wording.


 Where the devil is always in the details.


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

Klaus-rf said:


> You paid for the license to use the software that you can't ever own


I'm fine with that when it comes to disposable cheap items. Cell phones etc. Not when it comes to my vehicles that can be crippled when I wake up in the morning


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

StromTrooperM3 said:


> I'm fine with that when it comes to disposable cheap items. Cell phones etc. Not when it comes to my vehicles that can be crippled when I wake up in the morning


 Sorry, but then your only option is to limit your purchases (participation?) to cheap cell phones while staying away from every other Internet-connected device(s) including things that provide Internet connectivity such as routers, wireless APs, and diswashers, refrigerators, solar panels / inverters, apple watches, wireless cameras, all banking and credit services, electric/electronic garage doors openers, ... the list goes on forever.

The technical term for all this stuff is "IoT, aka "Internet of Things". We're long past the age of horses and dirt roads.


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

Klaus-rf said:


> The technical term for all this stuff is "IoT, aka "Internet of Things". We're long past the age of horses and dirt roads.


I appreciate the explanation. I own a very successful IT Consultanting Firm.

I'm not aware of any devices I have deployed that will be crippled or fail to work if an update is not applied. That's just not how IoT back end infrastructure works at the moment. Security still has a lot to be desired


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## SimonMatthews (Apr 20, 2018)

StromTrooperM3 said:


> I appreciate the explanation. I own a very successful IT Consultanting Firm.
> 
> I'm not aware of any devices I have deployed that will be crippled or fail to work if an update is not applied. That's just not how IoT back end infrastructure works at the moment. Security still has a lot to be desired


I thought that I had read somewhere that the change concerned the way the car secures its connection to Tesla's back end infrastructure: moving away from OpenVPN. Some of the app features require the car to connect to Tesla's infrastructure.


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

StromTrooperM3 said:


> I appreciate the explanation. I own a very successful IT Consultanting Firm.
> 
> I'm not aware of any devices I have deployed that will be crippled or fail to work if an update is not applied. That's just not how IoT back end infrastructure works at the moment. Security still has a lot to be desired


 On many WatchGuard firewalls some functions stop working if not updated. And, of course, when support ends they may stop passing traffic completely. It's all in the license agreement.

Will Tesla even provide updates for Mdl 3 in 15 years?


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

On another forum where a very well know Tesla hacker lived way before the Model 3, he dug in to and explained how the security worked 4 to 5 years ago. Tesla doesn't mess around. Very secure. If it was a tool to make the car and their network more secure they used it, including the car connecting to the mothership daily and updating the passwords and very often, perhaps even some of the secure keys used. I don't remember details, but it was good. I'm sure it has improved and it will continue to get better. It will require your car connect to and talk to the Mothership almost daily however. I can see just a little of both sides of this argument, but I truly am truly planted that I want their updates and I want to be secure.

BTW - the hacker got good enough that Elon and team would watch him and then hold releases and try to force releases on him to close any gaps he had found and opened.


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

StromTrooperM3 said:


> We now have an answer to what happens if we don't update. It is becoming more and more apparent we don't actually own these vehicles.
> 
> https://electrek.co/2020/02/14/tesla-force-software-updates-owners-resisting-them/


Tesla is just dropping support for its old VPN, which was phased out ~two years ago when upgraded to a new more secure system. There are very very few people with software that old, and certainly no Model 3.
They're not shutting down their cars, they just are finally giving up supporting them...and if they haven't updated in two years, they probably don't care to update any more anyway for whatever reason.
At least Tesla is nice enough to give them a heads up.


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