# M3 stops when I'm backing up!



## AZBMT (Oct 9, 2018)

This has been happening to me very often and I absolutely hate it!
While I'm backing up, I always turn around to look in the rear and the car thinks I'm not there, and puts the car into park! Right in the middle of the street! WTF!
I get it... I understand the whole passenger detection thing, but this is overboard, overkill. It is just too much thinking, and it annoys me. Oh and I've been having to do this more and more since I get the black screen when I'm in reverse! WTF!


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

put your seatbelt on


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## AZBMT (Oct 9, 2018)

Nope! I won't have a car tell me I can't go into reverse when I don't have my seatbelt! No other car does that!


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

AZBMT said:


> Nope! I won't have a car tell me I can't go into reverse when I don't have my seatbelt! No other car does that!


Looks like this is going to be a pretty short thread then.


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## Frully (Aug 30, 2018)

I've only ever had it happen when I have the door open and I lift my weight to put my seatbelt on. I frequently get in, put in gear (to get camera booting up), then put on seat belt (door still open). The weight shift triggers rollaway protection. I can see where OP is coming from but would prefer if it gave a few fractions of a second longer as my weight always comes back down quickly.

Edit: @op. This is also the only car that is ...amazing...because it doesn't do a lot of things the way that other cars do them.


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## AZBMT (Oct 9, 2018)

And I should have know better than to come on a Tesla Model 3 forum and god forbid complain about something... 
Maybe Tesla will think differently.


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## Frully (Aug 30, 2018)

AZBMT said:


> And I should have know better than to come on a Tesla Model 3 forum and god forbid complain about something...
> Maybe Tesla will think differently.


I think it's completely reasonable for a company touting AP/FSD functionality being ABUNDANTLY cautious (legally, and thus technologically) about the car moving uncontrolled without someone in the drivers seat. When I set it off I'm at fault and the car is putting me in in 'you f****d up' jail. Wear your belt, solved.


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## AZBMT (Oct 9, 2018)

Frully said:


> I think it's completely reasonable for a company touting AP/FSD functionality being ABUNDANTLY cautious (legally, and thus technologically) about the car moving uncontrolled without someone in the drivers seat. When I set it off I'm at fault and the car is putting me in in 'you f****d up' jail. Wear your belt, solved.


No, again, you're wrong. You probably don't have a technical background. Engineering is all about figuring how to do things smarter, and yes, solving this problem is pretty simple without having to put on the seatbelt.


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## Frully (Aug 30, 2018)

AZBMT said:


> No, again, you're wrong. You probably don't have a technical background. Engineering is all about figuring how to do things smarter, and yes, solving this problem is pretty simple without having to put on the seatbelt.


And yet, the engineering department and the legal department at Tesla probably had this same discussion. The lawyers always win.


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## Love (Sep 13, 2017)

*State of Arizona Seat Belt Law*

*1. Driver and passengers in the front seat must have the waist and chest strap properly fastened and in place if the vehicle is moving*.

/thread


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## Darrenf (Apr 5, 2016)

AZBMT said:


> No, again, you're wrong. You probably don't have a technical background. Engineering is all about figuring how to do things smarter, and yes, solving this problem is pretty simple without having to put on the seatbelt.


Solving your problem is also quite simple. Latch the seatbelt. Done.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

AZBMT said:


> No, again, you're wrong. You probably don't have a technical background. Engineering is all about figuring how to do things smarter, and yes, solving this problem is pretty simple without having to put on the seatbelt.


But you said it stops on you in the middle of the street. I think that's a good time to have a seatbelt on. Just my opinion tho.

I'm sorry that you feel this forum is only defending the Tesla status quo. I've found the forum to be extremely helpful and the people open to figuring things out - both the good and the bad regarding these cutting edge Tesla cars.

And as I am about to retire from my engineering career, I'm in a reflective mode. One of the greatest things I've come to understand is that there are multiple possible solutions for any given problem and that none of the solutions are ever perfect.


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## msjulie (Feb 6, 2018)

I always wear my belt and give me faces to passengers that 'forget' - that sayin', there's been times I've backed my car up in the driveway and then pulled forward into the garage w/o a belt on and only had to face the bleeping bell sounds.. Maybe the car knows I never left the driveway :innocent:


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## Greg Appelt (Sep 27, 2018)

AZBMT said:


> Nope! I won't have a car tell me I can't go into reverse when I don't have my seatbelt! No other car does that!


"Every time we develop something that is 'idiot-proof', they come up with a better idiot!"


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

AZBMT said:


> Nope! I won't have a car tell me I can't go into reverse when I don't have my seatbelt! No other car does that!


Volvo does, IIRC.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

Bigriver said:


> And as I am about to retire from my engineering career, I'm in a reflective mode. One of the greatest things I've come to understand is that there are multiple possible solutions for any given problem and that none of the solutions are ever perfect.


I wish more people understood this.

I also wish people understood the maxim that "no matter how smart you are, there is always someone out there smarter than you about something. Listen when they speak".


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

We seem to be forgetting that there is another solution: sit in your seat.
You don't need the seatbelt on. Just sit down.

Those "dumb" Tesla engineers gave you TWO options. They even gave you a giant screen to make it easier.


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

Lovesword said:


> /thread


Optimistic. But that's why we like you!


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## Ed Woodrick (May 26, 2018)

Keep butt in seat
Use backup camera


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## Jay79 (Aug 18, 2018)

Congrats! Your the only person I've ever heard of that needs to lift themselves out of their seat in order to back up instead of using shoulder checks and the giant screen in front of you :tearsofjoy: 

Notice your the only one having this problem?


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Jay79 said:


> Congrats! Your the only person I've ever heard of that needs to lift themselves out of their seat in order to back up instead of using shoulder checks and the giant screen in front of you :tearsofjoy:


Oh no, I do this too when I'm going in reverse. I actually lift myself off the seat to turn around enough to have a good view behind me.


> Notice your the only one having this problem?


The solution is to either be careful to keep some weight on the seat, or keep your seat belt on. I adjusted my habits to keep the car happy - it's not that big of a deal.


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## Frully (Aug 30, 2018)

Jay79 said:


> Congrats! Your the only person I've ever heard of that needs to lift themselves out of their seat in order to back up instead of using shoulder checks and the giant screen in front of you :tearsofjoy:
> 
> Notice your the only one having this problem?


To be totally fair -- I too have had this happen a few times, and it's specifically the action of lifting my weight to reach the seat belt that causes the rollaway protection. The irony.

I also understand what OP is saying - not that it's necessarily bad, just that it's a bit aggressive. I too would like it to be a fraction of a second slower to go into e-stop mode. 
Slippery slope: Saying that the car must enforce the law is ugly. "no seat belt no go" quickly turns into "speed limit is x, don't ever speed".


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## Frully (Aug 30, 2018)

MelindaV said:


> put your seatbelt on


I had to vote 'informative' to see you get one of each type of vote on this reply. Yay democracy.


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## Long Ranger (Jun 1, 2018)

Frully said:


> I had to vote 'informative' to see you get one of each type of vote on this reply. Yay democracy.


And she did it in only four words. I'll have to change my vote to Winner! Oh, wait, that would mess up the vote distribution.


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

Frully said:


> Slippery slope: Saying that the car must enforce the law is ugly. "no seat belt no go" quickly turns into "speed limit is x, don't ever speed".


But it doesn't enforce the law. It drives without a seatbelt on. It lets you go above the speed limit, even with autopilot.
It's just one of Tesla's many thoughtful features of putting the car into park when the driver is not present to prevent the car from rolling away (or over someone). A nice thoughtful feature really if you've ever seen a car unintentionally roll away. And it is much more likely because there is no physical park position, no ignition, and no noisy engine to tell if it is "running." I'd much rather have a feature be occasionally annoying while I learn how to slightly adapt my ways to a new car, then to ever have the car roll over someone's foot.


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## Frully (Aug 30, 2018)

JWardell said:


> But it doesn't enforce the law. It drives without a seatbelt on. It lets you go above the speed limit, even with autopilot.
> It's just one of Tesla's many thoughtful features of putting the car into park when the driver is not present to prevent the car from rolling away (or over someone). A nice thoughtful feature really if you've ever seen a car unintentionally roll away. And it is much more likely because there is no physical park position, no ignition, and no noisy engine to tell if it is "running." I'd much rather have a feature be occasionally annoying while I learn how to slightly adapt my ways to a new car, then to ever have the car roll over someone's foot.


Absolutely. Not sure if I replied in the right context -- the person quoting the arizona law is the 'weak' example I wanted to counter.


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## Love (Sep 13, 2017)

Frully said:


> Absolutely. Not sure if I replied in the right context -- the person quoting the arizona law is the 'weak' example I wanted to counter.


Because heaven forbid we follow the law of the land we live in.

Thanks though. Next time I'll do more than spend one second googling a seat belt law and copy/pasting to satisfy all the depths of which you want to get into about this non-issue...

No I won't.


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## msjulie (Feb 6, 2018)

This may be an overreaction post? But I have to say when I first heard this I was really PO'ed at Jeep/FCA for their very stupid transmission operation/design and it's reasons like that, I suppose, that Tesla falls on the conservative side..

Jeep still in reverse


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

msjulie said:


> This may be an overreaction post? But I have to say when I first heard this I was really PO'ed at Jeep/FCA for their very stupid transmission operation/design and it's reasons like that, I suppose, that Tesla falls on the conservative side..
> 
> Jeep still in reverse


You realize that that "very stupid" transmission operation / design is in reality very, very similar to the design in our Model 3's, right?


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## msjulie (Feb 6, 2018)

> You realize that that "very stupid" transmission operation / design is in reality very, very similar to the design in our Model 3's, right?


Well maybe, I don't agree it's as non-obvious as the FCA cause it's a push in of the stalk etc... but regardless, it would explain the car's insistence on a butt in the seat else stop behavior..


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

msjulie said:


> Well maybe, I don't agree it's as non-obvious as the FCA cause it's a push in of the stalk etc... but regardless, it would explain the car's insistence on a butt in the seat else stop behavior..


The FCA joystick style was lifted pretty much lock stock and barrel from the Audi's using the same transmission. It's also very similar to other joystick style shifters, especially BMW's.

All of those use a button to put the vehicle in park. None of them, to my knowledge, use a lever movement. I'm not sure how people get confused by them, but they do, as evidenced by this story above and countless others. I'm sure people have also gotten confused by Tesla shifters over the years as well (a design borrowed directly from Mercedes, of course, including the actual hardware in the S and X).

But yes, this is the reason that we have the auto park interlocks now. Volvo's will also put the car in park if you open the door, and not let you drive with the door open.


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

JWardell said:


> We seem to be forgetting that there is another solution: sit in your seat.
> You don't need the seatbelt on. Just sit down.
> 
> Those "dumb" Tesla engineers gave you TWO options. They even gave you a giant screen to make it easier.


Yeah, the vehicles these days make it harder and harder to "Turn Around" when backing up. with high trunk and thicker and thicker pillars.
You can see more using the 3 mirrors, all the ultrasonic sensor distances, and the backup camera than you can see when "turning around".


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## John (Apr 16, 2016)

AZBMT said:


> This has been happening to me very often and I absolutely hate it!
> While I'm backing up, I always turn around to look in the rear and the car thinks I'm not there, and puts the car into park! Right in the middle of the street! WTF!
> I get it... I understand the whole passenger detection thing, but this is overboard, overkill. It is just too much thinking, and it annoys me. Oh and I've been having to do this more and more since I get the black screen when I'm in reverse! WTF!


If Anton Yelchin's Jeep had had this feature, he'd still be alive.

RIP, Chekov.


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

John said:


> If Anton Yelchin's Jeep had had this feature, he'd still be alive.
> 
> RIP, Chekov.


Right and the Software Patch for the Jeep was something like this Tesla feature.


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## John (Apr 16, 2016)

I've never done the "look over my shoulder and spring up off the seat with no seat belt to look behind me," but I do start to step out of the car with it in Drive probably at least once or twice a week when I'm in a hurry. So I'd prefer more, not less, autoparkificiation.


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

mswlogo said:


> Right and the Software Patch for the Jeep was something like this Tesla feature.


Did they charge for the patch?


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

iChris93 said:


> Did they charge for the patch?


Of course not.


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## MJJ (Aug 7, 2016)

John said:


> I've never done the "look over my shoulder and spring up off the seat with no seat belt to look behind me," but I do start to step out of the car with it in Drive probably at least once or twice a week when I'm in a hurry. So I'd prefer more, not less, autoparkificiation.


Doesn't it go into park auto-magically when you open the door?


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## zosoisnotaword (Aug 28, 2017)

AZBMT said:


> No, again, you're wrong. You probably don't have a technical background. Engineering is all about figuring how to do things smarter, and yes, solving this problem is pretty simple without having to put on the seatbelt.


This is probably good for about 50-100 internet points on r/iamverysmart if anyone wants to take it.


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## Love (Sep 13, 2017)

zosoisnotaword said:


> This is probably good for about 50-100 internet points on r/iamverysmart if anyone wants to take it.


I did not know this existed... down the rabbit hole I go.


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## Misanthropic Mike (May 17, 2019)

JWardell said:


> We seem to be forgetting that there is another solution: sit in your seat.
> You don't need the seatbelt on. Just sit down.
> 
> Those "dumb" Tesla engineers gave you TWO options. They even gave you a giant screen to make it easier.


Except that in my experience, rising to turn around and get a full view out the rear windows is much safer and provides the situational awareness I need to back into a tight garage, or to reverse a trailer, or to drive down the entire street in reverse if I want to. The camera and prox sensors are supposed to make this easier but they really don't. You're asking me to sacrifice safety and overall flexibility of the vehicle in order to fit the manufacturer's narrowly defined use cases. That's the opposite of luxury; it makes the car less valuable. Should I attempt a J-turn using only the backup camera?

BTW, there is no law requiring adults to wear a seatbelt in my state.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

Misanthropic Mike said:


> BTW, there is no law requiring adults to wear a seatbelt in my state.


are you sure about that?
https://www.mass.gov/info-details/transportation-safety-and-injury-prevention 


> *Massachusetts Safety Belt Law*
> Massachusetts law requires every person in a passenger motor vehicle to wear a safety belt or sit in a child passenger restraint.


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## John (Apr 16, 2016)

This is the first car I've owned where the backup camera is better than looking myself.

That's probably why I am so annoyed when software updates make it lag.

The fish-eye lens, which at first seemed odd, is really great. When you pull out of an angled spot (like in a store parking lot), you can see down the row behind you almost as soon as you start backing up, which is a better view (from the tail of the car) than I have from my seat.

And the guidelines are just dead-on accurate in terms of wheel placement. Leave a gap and you're fine for curbs, and using the lines I routinely park with just a 6" space between cars on each side (our cars are fanned out in the driveway, so you can get in and out, but you have to get through the narrow gap first).


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## Misanthropic Mike (May 17, 2019)

I don't believe I have guidelines; it might be a peculiarity of 2019.7.105?


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## Misanthropic Mike (May 17, 2019)

MelindaV said:


> are you sure about that?
> https://www.mass.gov/info-details/transportation-safety-and-injury-prevention


Yes, I'm sure. Also, what makes you think I live in MA?


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

Misanthropic Mike said:


> Yes, I'm sure. Also, what makes you think I live in MA?


because all your posts are from MA


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## Long Ranger (Jun 1, 2018)

Misanthropic Mike said:


> Except that in my experience, rising to turn around and get a full view out the rear windows is much safer and provides the situational awareness I need to back into a tight garage


For my tight garage, the camera and mirrors are far superior:
1. I need to see exact space behind rear bumper. Camera and sensors provide that. Looking out rear window I can't see below the trunk lid.
2. I need to see clearance on sides of vehicle. Camera lines and side mirrors provide that precisely. Looking out windows I can't see down far enough and can't see exact clearance.
3. I need to make sure my mirrors clear the door opening. I can't see that when looking out back window.



Misanthropic Mike said:


> You're asking me to sacrifice safety and overall flexibility of the vehicle in order to fit the manufacturer's narrowly defined use cases.


J-turns while not wearing a seatbelt? Who has the narrowly defined use cases here?


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## John (Apr 16, 2016)

Misanthropic Mike said:


> I don't believe I have guidelines; it might be a peculiarity of 2019.7.105?


They appear when you put the car in reverse.


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

Misanthropic Mike said:


> Except that in my experience, rising to turn around and get a full view out the rear windows is much safer and provides the situational awareness I need to back into a tight garage, or to reverse a trailer, or to drive down the entire street in reverse if I want to. The camera and prox sensors are supposed to make this easier but they really don't. You're asking me to sacrifice safety and overall flexibility of the vehicle in order to fit the manufacturer's narrowly defined use cases. That's the opposite of luxury; it makes the car less valuable. Should I attempt a J-turn using only the backup camera?
> 
> BTW, there is no law requiring adults to wear a seatbelt in my state.


So you are complaining about _safety_ while you drive a car backwards all the way down a street with no seatbelt on??? Turn around and drive forwards!
The camera is not there to make driving around safer, it is for low-speed backups into tight positions, which is about all you should be doing in reverse. 
Unless you are the first revision of advanced summon, of course...


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## Jarettp (Dec 1, 2018)

Misanthropic Mike said:


> Yes, I'm sure. Also, what makes you think I live in MA?


There's also no law saying a car maker needs to allow you to drive with no seatbelt on. Funny how laws work.


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## Misanthropic Mike (May 17, 2019)

Wait, does this not happen if you lift yourself off the seat but the belt is still buckled? Because that is at least slightly less annoying. Of course, a J-Turn isn't something I do frequently, but trailer reversing is common enough on weekends and really is easier turned around... especially if the backup camera is aimed at nothing but trailer.


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## Love (Sep 13, 2017)

Misanthropic Mike said:


> Wait, does this not happen if you lift yourself off the seat but the belt is still buckled? Because that is at least slightly less annoying. Of course, a J-Turn isn't something I do frequently, but trailer reversing is common enough on weekends and really is easier turned around... especially if the backup camera is aimed at nothing but trailer.


I do believe that's the case. I remember specifically when my car went in to park on me because it confused me at first... I'd parked too far away from the card swipe kiosk for the car wash so had to undo my belt to reach it through the window. Did that, then was like "ok, lets go...why am I in park suddenly?"


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## Flashgj (Oct 11, 2018)

I have a friend who owned a BMW i3, he pulled into his driveway just as he received a phone call, sat in the car talking on the phone for a few minutes. After the call ended he had forgotten that he did not put it into park, opened the door and started to get out, the i3 proceeded forward without him, taking out his garage door and totaling the i3. 

I don’t believe this could ever happen in a Tesla with the safety measures they have implemented!


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## Mr. Spacely (Feb 28, 2019)

*IF* a Tesla or any car rolled forward it would not: "take out the garage door and total the car."


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## Long Ranger (Jun 1, 2018)

casey morgan said:


> *IF* a Tesla or any car rolled forward it would not: "take out the garage door and total the car."


Maybe not in Florida, but there are driveways in my neighborhood where that's definitely possible. If my car rolled backwards down my driveway, it would probably be totaled.


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## Flashgj (Oct 11, 2018)

casey morgan said:


> *IF* a Tesla or any car rolled forward it would not: "take out the garage door and total the car."


I don't remember the exact details but it DID most definitely take out the garage door and because of the carbon construction of the i3, the car was totaled.


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## SimonMatthews (Apr 20, 2018)

Jarettp said:


> There's also no law saying a car maker needs to allow you to drive with no seatbelt on. Funny how laws work.


I used to own a car that had an interlock system, with sensors under the front seats linked to the seatbelts. The car would not start unless the seatbelts were plugged in. I don't really know why they had a sensor under the driver's seat -- it would seem to be axiomatic that there would be a driver in the driver's seat.

'74 MGB.


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