# Design options enabled by Nvidia AI (mirrors, HUD, etc.)



## Tom Bodera (Aug 10, 2016)

To piggy back off of Trev's latest video about Autopilot 2.0 and possible Model 3 Hud predictions.






While I agree with the possibilities of what Trevor said, I would love nothing more than what was described, I have found some information that makes more sense.

Tesla has always been trying to remove the side view mirrors to reduce the drag coefficient. (see how they are trying to get to 0.21 but had made the model 3 the same height as an S but shorter and hence more resistant). I do not see hwo they will achieve the 0.21 without removing the side view mirrors as they wanted with the Alpha version of the Model X.

My reasoning is that the Nvidia drive CX which works with the Drive PX2 to handle 3 screens. Trevor's interpretation was the ability to use this as a HUD or Augmented reality.

The simpler option is to use a simple hud for basic displays and 2 screens for side view mirrors.

" 
NVIDIA DRIVE™ CX is a complete hardware and software solution that enables advanced graphics and computer vision for navigation, infotainment, digital instrument clusters, and driver monitoring. It also enables surround vision, which solves the problem of blind spots with an undistorted, top-down, 360-degree view of the car in real time, *and can completely replace a physical mirror with a digital smart mirror. *- 

http://www.nvidia.ca/object/drive-cx-request.html

Just my two sense. Hope Trev is right however. That would be the coolest.

Tom


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

If you want to replace side mirrors with 2 screens, all you really need to do is connect those two screens directly to cameras. You don't need any of that expensive computing power.


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## AscendedSaiyan (Nov 7, 2016)

The only problem is that two cameras are on the bottom of the side view mirrors.


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## TrevP (Oct 20, 2015)

I was going to mention that side cameras could replace mirrors given they can drive 3 monitors but I didn't want to give anyone hopes for that because it requires regulatory approval whereas a HUD doesn't.

On a side note I wrote a blog post to go along with the video which will be posted at evannex.com and also sent the video to Teslarati.com. Both will pick up the news today or tomorrow so we can expect a flood of attention on it.

Cheers


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## Tom Bodera (Aug 10, 2016)

One could do Augmented reality overlays on the side mirror screens. 

As Trevor mentioned the issue is legislative approval. Unless there is things happening in the background that we are unaware of, I do not think that can happen yet either. Especially considering no one has mentioned it in any US state or Canada for a while.


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## Gilberto Pe-Curto (Oct 20, 2016)

garsh said:


> If you want to replace side mirrors with 2 screens, all you really need to do is connect those two screens directly to cameras. You don't need any of that expensive computing power.


It totally makes sense to remove the RearView mirrors.
Though , I think it would take sometime to like a car without that for most of people... 
and Tesla's mirrors are really nice...they are almost aesthetical elements on the car.
I'll get used to that....
;-)


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

Gilberto Pe-Curto said:


> It totally makes sense to remove the RearView mirrors.
> Though , I think it would take sometime to like a car without that for most of people...
> and Tesla's mirrors are really nice...they are almost aesthetical elements on the car.
> I'll get used to that....
> ;-)


I'll take AR HUD... with or without mirrors!!


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

AscendedSaiyan said:


> The only problem is that two cameras are on the bottom of the side view mirrors.


I don't think there are cameras on the mirrors. The new AP hardware includes cameras in the side markers, and other cars with the 360 camera systems have cameras pointing down at the pavement on the mirrors, but I've not seen anything showing Tesla is doing those (yet?)


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## AscendedSaiyan (Nov 7, 2016)

Yes, you are correct. I do not know why I thought I saw the camera placement there, on a video. 

On another note, removing the sideview mirrors would decrease the overall side-rear visual/safety effectiveness. During manual driving, human visual acuity, via the side mirror, is much higher/better than the camera.


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## Dan Detweiler (Apr 8, 2016)

AscendedSaiyan said:


> Yes, you are correct. I do not know why I thought I saw the camera placement there, on a video.
> 
> On another note, removing the sideview mirrors would decrease the overall side-rear visual/safety effectiveness. During manual driving, human visual acuity, via the side mirror, is much higher/better than the camera.


I am interested to know how the limited view through a potentially misaligned/dirty mirror is somehow more safe than the wide view and object recognition of Teslavision displayed onto a screen/projection directly in front of the driver. No head turn or dramatic change of focus.

Not trying to start a fight by any means. Just interested in the justification.

Dan


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## Dan Detweiler (Apr 8, 2016)

Another way to look at all this...

Just think, 8 short months ago all we cared about was whether it would have a mustache or not! 
Now look at all the cool stuff we can speculate about.

Dan


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## AscendedSaiyan (Nov 7, 2016)

Dan Detweiler said:


> I am interested to know how the limited view through a potentially misaligned/dirty mirror is somehow more safe than the wide view and object recognition of Teslavision displayed onto a screen/projection directly in front of the driver. No head turn or dramatic change of focus.
> 
> Not trying to start a fight by any means. Just interested in the justification.
> 
> Dan


That would be a bit like wondering how the view through a potentially dirty camera lens would be safer than looking through an equally dirty side mirror. Unless completely degraded visibility was involved, higher resolution (human eye coupled with a mirror) would be safer. Also, I would think government safety regulators might have an issue, if their is no back up. Wouldn't they want officers to be able to issue tickets the same as if a side mirror was missing/damaged? How would the officers know, if you weren't driving the car with all external safety functions working?

The best solution is to have both (camera view and side view mirrors).


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## Dan Detweiler (Apr 8, 2016)

AscendedSaiyan said:


> That would be a bit like wondering how the view through a potentially dirty camera lens would be safer than looking through an equally dirty side mirror. Unless completely degraded visibility was involved, higher resolution (human eye coupled with a mirror) would be safer. Also, I would think government safety regulators might have an issue, if their is no back up. Wouldn't they want officers to be able to issue tickets the same as if a side mirror was missing/damaged? How would the officers know, if you weren't driving the car with all external safety functions working?
> 
> The best solution is to have both (camera view and side view mirrors).


I would assume that it would be the driver's responsibility to have all of the cameras working properly. Field of view would be MUCH greater with a camera system. Absolutely no blind spots whatsoever. As to higher resolution of the human eye...I guess you haven't see my vision screenings lately. 

Just on a side note and I have no clue what the statistics might be, I wonder how many injuries are caused each year by the mirrors sticking out from the car? I know I have a big scar on my chin from when I was a kid due to a rear view mirror.

As with all things, time will tell what ends up on the car.

Dan


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## Gilberto Pe-Curto (Oct 20, 2016)

AscendedSaiyan said:


> That would be a bit like wondering how the view through a potentially dirty camera lens would be safer than looking through an equally dirty side mirror. Unless completely degraded visibility was involved, higher resolution (human eye coupled with a mirror) would be safer. Also, I would think government safety regulators might have an issue, if their is no back up. Wouldn't they want officers to be able to issue tickets the same as if a side mirror was missing/damaged? How would the officers know, if you weren't driving the car with all external safety functions working?
> 
> The best solution is to have both (camera view and side view mirrors).


I can't stop me from agreeing with this.
I love the mirrors and I see the camera advantages, but any mechanical (not electrical) device is always more reliable than electrical/electronical... almost always...

And the amount of dirt needed to block the camera is much, much lesser than to block a mirror from being working.

I'm not saying with this that I wouldn't like rearview cameras...
I'm just pointing out some aspects that most of techy people don't think about when support electronic devices


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

Dan Detweiler said:


> I am interested to know how the limited view through a potentially misaligned/dirty mirror is somehow more safe than the wide view and object recognition of Teslavision displayed onto a screen/projection directly in front of the driver. No head turn or dramatic change of focus.
> 
> Not trying to start a fight by any means. Just interested in the justification.
> 
> Dan


I am with you, Dan, with one caveat... we would also have to keep the (8!) cameras of the T≡SLAVision clean... certainly the ones in the back... and particularly in places where it rains a lot...!! I have to do that frequently with the rearview camera on my Beemer yet it takes a minute (often resulting in the need to wash my finger... ) and the result is clear (no pun intended )


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

Michael Russo said:


> I am with you, Dan, with one caveat... we would also have to keep the (8!) cameras of the T≡SLAVision clean... certainly the ones in the back... and particularly in places where it rains a lot...!! I have to do that frequently with the rearview camera on my Beemer yet it takes a minute (often resulting in the need to wash my finger... ) and the result is clear (no pun intended )


Sorry, @Dan Detweiler , had not read #13 when I wrote the above... yet we see eye to eye ) the driver is on point... and in any case she/he will want to keep cameras in optimal conditions to 'drive' the spaceship around safely !!


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

I'll add, my current Franz V.H. designed car would benefit GREATLY if it had cameras instead of side mirrors. With the top up, and especially if there is a second person in the car, the visibility of what may be to the right/left and slightly back is nonexistent. Changing lanes on the freeway is an utter leap of faith (so remember that if you are sitting in the blind spot of a Solstice or Sky with it's top up  )
Here's a couple shots of the views using the rear view, right side mirror and looking to the right from the safety of my garage.






























I didn't bother with the view to the left, because when you turn your head to the left, you are looking directly at the fabric roof and have no view beyond the driver side window. You can see (or not) what essentially is the B pillar is over a foot wide and the rear window is just above eye level. 
If this car had camera's instead of just side mirrors and very limited direct visibility, I would be much more comfortable.

I fully understand the configuration of my car is not typical of most passenger vehicles as far are windows/visibility, but wanted to give an example of how cameras could be a vast improvement over mirrors.


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

MelindaV said:


> I'll add, my current Franz V.H. designed car would benefit GREATLY if it had cameras instead of side mirrors. With the top up, and especially if there is a second person in the car, the visibility of what may be to the right/left and slightly back is nonexistent. Changing lanes on the freeway is an utter leap of faith (so remember that if you are sitting in the blind spot of a Solstice or Sky with it's top up  )
> Here's a couple shots of the views using the rear view, right side mirror and looking to the right from the safety of my garage.
> 
> 
> ...


And how you'll be thrilled to trade it with your brand spanking new Model ≡ with 360deg. vision!!  Coming soonest to Oregon!!


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## Badback (Apr 7, 2016)

Having cameras instead of mirrors would be safer for me. Assuming that the normal blind spots would be covered by the cameras. Arthritis in my neck, among other places, makes it difficult and painful for me to turn my head to check the blind spots. Hey, someday you too will be old, if your lucky.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Badback said:


> Hey, someday you too will be old, if your lucky.


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## Badback (Apr 7, 2016)

garsh said:


>


Sorry garsh, I don't get it. "You're"????


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## AscendedSaiyan (Nov 7, 2016)

Badback said:


> Having cameras instead of mirrors would be safer for me. Assuming that the normal blind spots would be covered by the cameras. Arthritis in my neck, among other places, makes it difficult and painful for me to turn my head to check the blind spots. Hey, someday you too will be old, if your lucky.


When the camera goes out, you wouldn't want a back up? You wouldn't rather have both (cameras and mirrors)?


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## Dan Detweiler (Apr 8, 2016)

AscendedSaiyan said:


> When the camera goes out, you wouldn't want a back up? You wouldn't rather have both (cameras and mirrors)?


Personally, no I wouldn't.

First of all, how often do the cameras go out in the current cars? Secondly, If one of the cameras do go out, you get it fixed just like anything else in the car. You presumably still have the back up camera and until you can get it fixed you do it the old fashioned way and turn and look before changing lanes. You still have the ultrasonic sensors to tell you if there is a car in your blind spot. I can't see adding to the expense of the car by adding both.

Again, that's just me.

Dan


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

AscendedSaiyan said:


> When the camera goes out, you wouldn't want a back up?


Not at the expense of aerodynamics.

I like the very wide, convex interior mirrors that they make for race cars. That would be a nice backup.


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## Badback (Apr 7, 2016)

AscendedSaiyan said:


> When the camera goes out, you wouldn't want a back up? You wouldn't rather have both (cameras and mirrors)?


What do you have now when the mirror gets broken? A more likely event than a camera going out. Besides, there are multiple cameras, so if one stops working, the others will do until a fix is done. I would rather have the better aerodynamics and lower wind noise and not having to constantly adjust the mirrors from where my partner had them set (she is much shorter than I).


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

Badback said:


> What do you have now when the mirror gets broken? A more likely event than a camera going out. Besides, there are multiple cameras, so if one stops working, the others will do until a fix is done. I would rather have the better aerodynamics and lower wind noise and not having to constantly adjust the mirrors from where my partner had them set (she is much shorter than I).


Also no exterior mirrors means no extra $ (or €, or £, etc... I have to watch it, this is a global site now!! ) to be paid for heated & electrical mirrors!!  Great plan! And let's vote for the interior race-like mirrors, to @garsh 'S point, as back-up to address legislative concerns if any!!


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## Mark C (Aug 26, 2016)

Dan Detweiler said:


> Personally, no I wouldn't.
> 
> First of all, how often do the cameras go out in the current cars? Secondly, If one of the cameras do go out, you get it fixed just like anything else in the car.
> Dan


For me, I prefer a mirror first, and if they add a camera and display that's fine, so long as I can keep my mirror. We have a Buick we bought new in 1990 and still repair it to drive occasionally and a pickup we bought new in 2003 that sees some limited usage. It has been my experience that if something is powered/electronic, it will eventually fail. Some items for the Buick are obsolete and a work-around is difficult. But, if I crack the lens on a mirror, I can go to a glass shop and have one made. Finding a replacement power mirror would require a salvage yard excursion and a not so good chance of finding an operable one.

Of course, perhaps nobody who has Tesla vehicle money keeps cars as long as I do.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Mark C said:


> But, if I crack the lens on a mirror, I can go to a glass shop and have one made.


Playing devil's advocate: if a camera goes bad, you can probably buy a replacement camera for less than the price of having that piece of glass made.


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## MichelT3 (Nov 16, 2016)

I tell the same to the 32 Dutch Citroën classic car clubs, when I chair their meeting... That the youngtimers are bound to die (some already are very ill). The oldies will last for decades though.


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