# Firmware Build v9.0 2019.8.5 3aaa23d (04/04/2019)



## airj1012

A few installs have hit TeslaFi. Interestingly on Model 3 came from 2019.7.11 77ce4d4 (which I think was the v3 Supercharger software). This is a complete guess, but I don't think the NoA update will be in this release. Any release notes (doubtful again).

[MOD NOTE]
Please only reply with actual information about this build.
Do not say that you installed it - take part in the poll above instead.


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## GDN

airj1012 said:


> A few installs have hit TeslaFi. Interestingly on Model 3 came from 2019.7.11 77ce4d4 (which I think was the v3 Supercharger software). This is a complete guess, but I don't think the NoA update will be in this release. Any release notes (doubtful again).


Tesla announced yesterday via blog a new feature available to the fleet of cars with EAP (previously only available via a beta). You mention it in your post. A new release of SW starts rolling out within 24 hours of that announcement. A car with 7.11 is one of the first to update. I think this all makes perfect sense this would be the release to not only include the advanced NOA, but likely the fast Supercharging and maybe a few other things as well.

Why would you suspect none of this is in this release? I think it is just the opposite.


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## garsh

GDN said:


> Why would you suspect none of this is in this release?


This is a point release.

Generally, I would expect this to contain nothing but bug fixes for 2019.8.4.


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## airj1012

garsh said:


> This is a point release.
> 
> Generally, I would expect this to contain nothing but bug fixes for 2019.8.4.


That's my rationale too. I would think a significant release would be outside 2019.8.X. I would think it would be 10+


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## nonStopSwagger

garsh said:


> This is a point release.
> 
> Generally, I would expect this to contain nothing but bug fixes for 2019.8.4.


Agreed, a point release.

I'm expecting a similar rollout timeframe as sentry mode, between when it was announced by tesla, and when I got it. If I get it faster, awesome.


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## GDN

I did overlook it was a point release, but one can hope. The SW is way strung out right now with the different features they were testing. They really need a unified release and then they need to get the beta testers lined up well and get their testing lined up with them vs the general public. Maybe they open the beta program to those that want to be in, could get in as well. They've got too many cars on the road now to have 10 releases rolling around. I could see 3 or 4 groups of beta's with a few thousand cars in each one. Then a good unified release every 45 to 60 days. They can't continue the history of releases from the past 3 months.


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## iChris93

GDN said:


> I did overlook it was a point release, but one can hope.


I would think it could come in a point release since it is already there, just not active. But since Elon tweeted that it also included an update to the NN, I think it will be post 2019.9 but maybe not.



GDN said:


> Maybe they open the beta program to those that want to be in, could get in as well.


They first have to get the FSD early adopters they promised it to in.


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## GDN

iChris93 said:


> They first have to get the FSD early adopters they promised it to in.


That group would likely be enough to fill the numbers they need, but once things settle out then perhaps offer on a want to basis.

I also wonder when they get they put the FSD adopters in the program if it will have a limited time? Just for notes sake this is the "Early Access" program I know and not to confuse it with the "Priority Access". For those that don't know the "Priority Access" is what you used to be able to win on your 4th referral. In the rules of the program there was no time limit noted for that program, however as they shut the old referral program down they notified us that there was a time lime on the "Priority Access" we would get. I don't recall exact date, but I think they limited it to late 2020.

So just thinking that even if they get the early FSD adopters in, it may come with a limited time frame.


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## SeBsZ

This release contains NoA without confirmation as confirmed by this guy including a screenshot of the new settings screen: https://forums.tesla.com/forum/foru...oday-and-includes-seamless-navigate-autopilot


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## Flashgj

Well according to this guys post, 8.5 does include the new NOA change announced yesterday to begin rolling out.


__
http://instagr.am/p/Bv1WvJ6FbFE/


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## agastya

Moved from 2019.5.15 to 2019.8.4 just earlier this week, skipping 2019.8.3 altogether - so I believed that 8.5 was probably just a fix to harmonize the few differences between 8.3 and 8.4

Release notes for 8.5 do say that the this update contains NoA without confirmation ( which wasn't there on 8.4 previously)


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## Gdepau

Can confirm, I just received 2019.8.5 update this morning, I was on 2019.8.3. I do have the same Navigate on Autopilot options as well.


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## agastya

Elon also indicated that the 8.5 release has the updated NN.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113633936834465792


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## airj1012

agastya said:


> Moved from 2019.5.15 to 2019.8.4 just earlier this week, skipping 2019.8.3 altogether - so I believed that 8.5 was probably just a fix to harmonize the few differences between 8.3 and 8.4
> 
> However, release notes do say that the this update contains NoA without confirmation.


Wait, so new NoA features are in 8.4 too?


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## Bokonon

airj1012 said:


> Wait, so new NoA features are in 8.4 too?


Elon is saying that 8.4 8.5 includes the updated neural network, but not the settings required to enable NoA without lane-change confirmation. There are no changes to NoA settings in 8.4

The updated NN (combined with the maps update that we received about a month ago) has benefits of its own, independent of the lane-change-without-confirmation feature. For example, it may help NoA navigate on ramps, off ramps, and other interchanges more smoothly, and allow Autosteer to "ad-lib" more intelligently. So even though it is required for the new lane-change feature in 8.5, it should offer improvements for cars running 8.4 as well.


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## ehendrix23

Gdepau said:


> Can confirm, I just received 2019.8.5 update this morning, I was on 2019.8.3. I do have the same Navigate on Autopilot options as well.


OK, now I need to get it. Time to bring out the pillows, blankie to make Tessie comfy and to start my update dance.  Worked last time (although a bit too good as 8.3 suddenly went to everyone yet did anyone thank me? Noooo.)


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## Ze1000

Bokonon said:


> Elon is saying that 8.4 includes the updated neural network, but not the settings required to enable NoA without lane-change confirmation.
> 
> The updated NN (combined with the maps update that we received about a month ago) has benefits of its own, independent of the lane-change-without-confirmation feature. For example, it may help NoA navigate on ramps, off ramps, and other interchanges more smoothly, and allow Autosteer to "ad-lib" more intelligently. So even though it is required for the new lane-change feature in 8.5, it should offer improvements for cars running 8.4 as well.


I believe that Elon is referencing 8.5. Anyway, it changes everything on the development process if all the 2019.8.x versions didn't have the new NN code. 
Usually a dot release only enable or disable features, not to add new features (new code). Hopefully the NN is there in any 2019.8, so I can keep my sanity.


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## garsh

Bokonon said:


> Elon is saying that 8.4 includes the updated neural network


Please note that Elon never mentioned a version number. He just said "this release".


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## agastya

garsh said:


> Please note that Elon never mentioned a version number. He just said "this release".


The reply was on a thread stating "These new settings will be available to customers who have purchased Enhanced Autopilot or Full Self-Driving Capability. *They will begin to roll out today* via an over-the-air software update to customers in the U.S., and will be introduced in other markets in the future pending validation and regulatory approval"

2019.8.5 looks to be the only version being released to the general public since y'day, so pretty safe to infer that "this release" would have been 8.5


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## Bokonon

garsh said:


> Please note that Elon never mentioned a version number. He just said "this release".





agastya said:


> The reply was on a thread stating "These new settings will be available to customers who have purchased Enhanced Autopilot or Full Self-Driving Capability.


Thanks for pointing that out, I've corrected my post.

I was missing the context from the beginning of the thread and assumed he meant 8.4, since that was the version mentioned in the tweet he was replying to. Of course he could have just specified the version number to make it clear, but that would be no fun.


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## Bogdan

GDN said:


> Tesla announced yesterday via blog a new feature available to the fleet of cars with EAP (previously only available via a beta). You mention it in your post. A new release of SW starts rolling out within 24 hours of that announcement. A car with 7.11 is one of the first to update. I think this all makes perfect sense this would be the release to not only include the advanced NOA, but likely the fast Supercharging and maybe a few other things as well.
> 
> Why would you suspect none of this is in this release? I think it is just the opposite.


I do have 7.11 for a while and when I reached out to Tesla Service for an update, they told me that I'm on a special beta firmware and they are trying to integrate the supercharger changes into the newer firmware and that is why is it taking longer for me to receive updates. I'm still waiting...


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## JWardell

Can someone check if the new Atari games have been added to 8.5 or are they coming later?


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## ehendrix23

GateFather said:


> So I am still on Firmware Build v9.0 2019.8.3 da116a6 (3/23/2019) and never got Firmware Build v9.0 2019.8.4 530d1d3 (3/29/2019). Looks like Firmware Build v9.0 2019.8.5 3aaa23d (04/04/2019) is rolling out starting today. Would the expectation be that I (and others like me) would go from 8.3 to 8.5? I have a LR AWD model 3.


Same here, 2019.8.3. I think we'll just jump then to 2019.8.5.


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## ehendrix23

JWardell said:


> Can someone check if the new Atari games have been added to 8.5 or are they coming later?


LMAO .... We have a new release that gets us a lot closer to FSD, car will also be able to get your coffee, do your taxes, and fluff your pillow ....... OK, all nice and dandy but what about the Atari games?


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## JWardell

ehendrix23 said:


> LMAO .... We have a new release that gets us a lot closer to FSD, car will also be able to get your coffee, do your taxes, and fluff your pillow ....... OK, all nice and dandy but what about the Atari games?


I wasn't joking...lots of new games added:
https://teslaownersonline.com/threads/v9-features-atari.8972/page-3#post-223407


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## ehendrix23

JWardell said:


> I wasn't joking...lots of new games added:
> https://teslaownersonline.com/threads/v9-features-atari.8972/page-3#post-223407


Oh darn, I did not know that. 

Hmmm, so automatic lane change AND new games? Only requirement is to keep hands on steering wheel? Well .... that is one method to make sure that happens. Have us play some Atari games 

Not tested, but figuring that playing Atari games is disabled while driving (grumble).


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## roghaj

Attached games list.
Roger


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## airj1012

What are folks thoughts on this update? Big difference in the neural net? Does NoA perform well?


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## GDN

So it looks like my comment earlier was correct about this being included even though it is a point release. Now I want to go on record and see if we can get the massive roll out to begin about 6 PM Central. We've seen that in the past with a few releases. This one has just trickled today, so now it needs to be release.


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## airj1012

GDN said:


> So it looks like my comment earlier was correct about this being included even though it is a point release. Now I want to go on record and see if we can get the massive roll out to begin about 6 PM Central. We've seen that in the past with a few releases. This one has just trickled today, so now it needs to be release.


Mmmm, I think you're two for two. Rolling now. Do you know someone?! What are the next lottery numbers?


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## Reliev

looks like lane change notification..... boom 



http://imgur.com/a/0IMO4V4


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## GDN

GDN said:


> So it looks like my comment earlier was correct about this being included even though it is a point release. Now I want to go on record and see if we can get the massive roll out to begin about 6 PM Central. We've seen that in the past with a few releases. This one has just trickled today, so now it needs to be release.


BOOM - two for two today. Parked the car at home at 6:03 and this pops up about 6:08!!!!


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## Love

8.4 was officially the shortest lived update ever for me. Got it Tuesday, just got 8.5.
@JWardell heres a games list. Is millipede new???


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## Unplugged

JWardell said:


> Can someone check if the new Atari games have been added to 8.5 or are they coming later?


No new games on my 8.5. Darn.

BTW, this release tied my record for updates: 8 days since I had installed 8.3. I got lucky because before 8.3, I waited 47 days and before that 34 days. No accounting for firmware updates.


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## harrison987

Looks like the auto lane change is the biggest update. Will be interesting to test in the morning.


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## webdriverguy

Just got this update. Very excited to try this out. On my 100mile drive today noa hesitated one time to make the lane change and brought me back to my lane. Hoping with the NN change noa will be much smoother


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## srjinatl

GateFather said:


> So I am still on Firmware Build v9.0 2019.8.3 da116a6 (3/23/2019) and never got Firmware Build v9.0 2019.8.4 530d1d3 (3/29/2019). Looks like Firmware Build v9.0 2019.8.5 3aaa23d (04/04/2019) is rolling out starting today. Would the expectation be that I (and others like me) would go from 8.3 to 8.5? I have a LR AWD model 3.


Yes - that is exactly what happened to me - I just updated tonight from 8.3 to 8.5


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## 9114s

Releases are coming faster and faster. Going for a run this afternoon to check it out


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## Nautilus

I've been away from my car for about 1 1/2 weeks. During that time:
1) I was notified of an update, then it went away (I suspect that was 8.3)
2) I was notified of another update, but opted not to update since I was away from my car (I suspect that was 8.4)
3) I was notified this afternoon of yet another update (superceding the one above, which had still been there), and decided to go for it. This was indeed 8.5

I'm still away from my car, but based on following the various threads, I'm thinking I've received:
a) 5% Peak Power increase (originally from 8.3)
b) Autosteer Stoplight warning (originally from 8.3)
c) NoA Lane change without confirmation (new to 8.5)

I guess I'm still waiting for:
i) v3 supercharging (including enroute heating of battery)
ii) enhanced autosummon (which I think is still in limited distribution)

I have a LR RWD with AP/FSD that was on 2019.5.15 prior to this upgrade, so I already had the range increase from 310 to 325 (how much of that is real, still tbd)


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## Reliev

@SoFlaModel3
already dropped a video !


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## airj1012

The neural net that came with this update is awesome. AP is really smooth now!


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## Lgkahn

Got update 8.3 to 8.5 not enabling auto.lane change .. my car wants to change all the time ffor instance out.of passing lane immediately even when there are slower traffic in other lane that you are obviously coming up on quickly and also when a few.seconds before it was telling me to change lanes the other way to continue route and take exit. Also doesn't know about open tolling and easy pass and always tries to go in gated toll.booth lanes. In my opinion needs a lot of work before I would trust it to change automatically.


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## iChris93

Lgkahn said:


> Got update 8.3 to 8.5 not enabling auto.lane change .. my car wants to change all the time ffor instance out.of passing lane immediately even when there are slower traffic in other lane that you are obviously coming up on quickly and also when a few.seconds before it was telling me to change lanes the other way to continue route and take exit. Also doesn't know about open tolling and easy pass and always tries to go in gated toll.booth lanes. In my opinion needs a lot of work before I would trust it to change automatically.


Are you basing this off of your NoA experience of builds prior to 8.5? They may have improved those things in this build.


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## Lgkahn

yes i am... i also notice there is a setting for how aggressive.. i have it on average. could try mild.. will hold further judgement till i hear how other people review it.. but i seriously doubt it has changed much.. that behavior has not changed forever for me. I probably ignore about 80% of the lane change suggestions i get.

Haven't taken it for a spin yet.. night time here and hot tub beckons.. But could be wrong but think they finally improved/restored audio.. Immersive Settings seem to have an effect again and bass finally seems louder again. No new games for me in Atari. Hopefully (fingers crossed ... 8.3 was definitely one of the more buggy f/ws at least for me) they fixed the annoying too far left in lane at times, microphone not working, unintended braking at times, and failure of the regenerative braking limited nag to disappear after startup,

Another issue at least in prior f/ws for me is that when their are more than 3 lanes it also interprets the other lanes as passing lanes and tries to get you out of the 2nd from the left for instance by saying "exit passing lane" as well. I have reported this as a bug... will see if it is fixed in this release otherwise again it is going to be annoying. It would really be nice if they added more logic for the "exit passing lane warning" based on whether you were coming up on traffic going slower in the right lane or not, and also whether someone was coming up fast behind you or on your ass. Kind of the way a real drive would use information before getting out of passing lane!


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## dburkland

Very impressed so far, uploaded a few rough videos from my drive home here


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1113959593464475653
The auto lane changes w/o confirmation were cool however what impressed me most was the increased smoothness of AP in general. It feels like a semi-competent adult is driving now


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## r-e-l

just saw the video and looking forward to try the update … the only thing that bothered me in the video … you do need to touch the wheel before the car makes a lane change. It doesn't feel much different than using the turn signal to approve lane change. what is so automatic about it? the detection to change the lane is not new. it just feels like a different gesture. 


hopefully it will feel more natual than it looks.


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## Needsdecaf

airj1012 said:


> They're moving a lot of people off 2019.5.15 too. Huge consolidation to 8.3, 8.4 and 8.5. Great news.


I am one of them. Didn't have 8.3 or 8.4.

I must say, I've never seen them push so many cars in one day on TeslaFi. But then again, there are almost double the reporting cars since I joined in January! And what's crazier is how many people got 8.4 yesterday and the day before. Never seen that pattern before.


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## GDN

You stopped short of showing the percentage, but over 40% of the Model 3' have been updated in the last 4 hours. The S and X are a much slower roll out. Almost unheard of. I wonder if this doesn't also have something to do with Tesla's media day coming up to demonstrate the FSD features coming. This is some big cred in their pocket if they can say that their fleet of EAP and FSD cars can now all already do this much and are on the road today.


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## littlD

r-e-l said:


> just saw the video and looking forward to try the update … the only thing that bothered me in the video … you do need to touch the wheel before the car makes a lane change. It doesn't feel much different than using the turn signal to approve lane change. what is so automatic about it? the detection to change the lane is not new. it just feels like a different gesture.
> 
> hopefully it will feel more natual than it looks.


I just put it through its paces in rainy night weather and it was amazing.

If you normally don't have a hand on the wheel, I can understand why you'd take it as "a different gesture".

Try it just keeping a hand on the wheel and let it do the work. Felt very natural


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## Deraillor

r-e-l said:


> just saw the video and looking forward to try the update … the only thing that bothered me in the video … you do need to touch the wheel before the car makes a lane change. It doesn't feel much different than using the turn signal to approve lane change. what is so automatic about it? the detection to change the lane is not new. it just feels like a different gesture.
> 
> hopefully it will feel more natual than it looks.


I think the idea is that you already have your hand on the wheel. Right? Right?? Haha, jk. Not a fan of the extra nag, but this update definitely seems to be a huge step in the right direction.


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## EpsilonKore

8.3 to 8.5 within 5 days time. All the games, 5%, Red light, NOA no confirmation lane change! Dual Motor LR FSD.


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## SoFlaModel3

relidtm said:


> @SoFlaModel3
> already dropped a video !


I love when that guy drops positive videos


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## zztops

After begging 3 support reps (pathetic of me... I know haha) I finally got the firmware pushed through. Went from 5.15 to 8.5.
I have a LR AWD. 
To not break rules by just saying, “I got it.” I’m adding a note of interest:
I do not have FSD. Only EAP and tested stop light recognition 3 times coming back from the gym. Worked on all 3 occasions. Alerts are a little later than I’d be comfortable with, but they’re there. 5% power increase is noticeable at already freeway speeds or to catch lights. NoA without lane confirmation is pretty damn solid too. I do not recommend turning off both audible and physical alerts. Keep at least 1 on.


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## Alighieri256

zztops said:


> It won't update if your car is plugged in and charging.


Sure it will. However, it will not update while Sentry is active.


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## zztops

L0UD0G said:


> Most of my updates, including this one, were installed shortly after the car was plugged in and charging without any issues.





Alighieri256 said:


> Sure it will. However, it will not update while Sentry is active.











I misphrased. It can be plugged in... it can't be actually charging... if you have a time or limit set to when to start back up, it'll stop...


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## Golden Gate

Does the new neural net improve the auto wiper functionality?


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## N54tt

I got 8.4 on 4/1 and 8.5 last night. After the update, I had a bunch of notifications that charging had been started. Not sure if that’s a bug or now constantly topping off is a new feature? Similar thing happened once before where I was getting multiple charge complete notifications. can’t remeber if a reset fixed...or an update to the car or app fixed it. I’m doing a reset to see if it continues.


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## Scubastevo80

I downloaded 8.5 early this morning while I was at the gym. On my way to work, I used the new NoA features (no turn signal confirm required) and it worked pretty well. There were no cancelled lane changes during the 10 mile highway stretch. There was a move into the fast last which I had to get out of manually because I drive about 72 and others in upwards of 80mph. My only complaint, and maybe frequent cancellations in a specific location combined with the neural net will solve this, is that NoA suggests a lane change from the left lane into the right lane at a merge section where traffic is heavy. Another 1/4 to 1/2 mile would be ideal. Otherwise, very happy with the update. 

One other point, I used the audible and vibrating steering wheel confirm. I am turning off the steering wheel vibration as I find it annoying, similar to when the lane keep warning is enabled.


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## iChris93

garsh said:


> The front passenger seat heater has twice turned off for no apparent reason last night.
> The occupant wasn't too happy. I'll have to test that some more and file a bug.


I this still present in 8.5?


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## garsh

iChris93 said:


> I this still present in 8.5?


I don't often have a front passenger.
The next time I do, I'll see if we can reproduce it.


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## WonkoTheSane

Lovesword said:


> 8.4 was officially the shortest lived update ever for me. Got it Tuesday, just got 8.5.
> @JWardell heres a games list. Is millipede new???
> View attachment 24375


What happened to Pole POsition?


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## garsh

WonkoTheSane said:


> What happened to Pole POsition?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1105002864898793472


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## ChiTesla

Golden Gate said:


> Does the new neural net improve the auto wiper functionality?


I don't think so. My wipers came on for 5 to 6 delayed swipes this morning on a dry car. Hopefully just re calibrating.


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## ChiTesla

N54tt said:


> I got 8.4 on 4/1 and 8.5 last night. After the update, I had a bunch of notifications that charging had been started. Not sure if that's a bug or now constantly topping off is a new feature? Similar thing happened once before where I was getting multiple charge complete notifications. can't remeber if a reset fixed...or an update to the car or app fixed it. I'm doing a reset to see if it continues.


I started getting multiple charges in the 8.3 update and it continues in the 8.5 update. I never tried a reset.


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## Needsdecaf

zztops said:


> View attachment 24387
> 
> 
> I misphrased. It can be plugged in... it can't be actually charging... if you have a time or limit set to when to start back up, it'll stop...


Right. But you can still get the update notification WHILE CHARGING. If you enable the software update, it will stop charging, then restart when done. Which makes sense.

The point being, if you are plugged in charging, it won't prevent you from updating.


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## Milo

Drove to work this morning on NoA without confirmation. Average, average lane change, one highway to highway transition, heavy, but fast moving traffic and lots of merging cars entering. I am very comfortable with "Standard" NoA and use it pretty much anytime I can, over 10K+ miles.

Gotta say, I was impressed at times, terrified at times. For the most part, driving and lane changes were smooth and appropriate. Went from left lane to middle lane just as a car was merging into the right lane. Yes, this was safe, but it had the practical effect of having two cars coming at each other, which is something a driver would be unlikely to do. NoA handled the transition between highways incredibly smoothly. It struggled, however, when cars were merging a few times, seeming to not know whether to speed up or slow down. Had one disengagement when the car couldn't handle merging cars. 

All in all, a reasonably decent first run at a very challenging set of circumstances. My takeaway is that the system will one day be nothing short of amazing (and is kind of amazing already), but if this is the first stab at a version of FSD, there is clearly some learning to be done. 

For my Minnesota peeps, the drive was rush hour, 212 east from Chaska to Edina, transitioning to 494 and getting off at France.


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## N54tt

ChiTesla said:


> I started getting multiple charges in the 8.3 update and it continues in the 8.5 update. I never tried a reset.


Interesting. I didn't have 8.4 for long...but it didn't start happening to me until immediately after 8.5


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## Needsdecaf

Following on above, for my Houston peeps, my commute takes me 99 / 249 / BW8 / I-10 West. I have lane change set to Mad Max, because, well, Houston. Traffic here is very heavy, and most of the highways are multi-lane (upwards of 5 on I-10). The traffic situation is very fluid, and constantly changing. You might get behind a taco truck doing 45 in a 65, clogging up the works, and people are jumping out to pass. Autopilot doesn't anticipate this, it just slows down and THEN tries to get around it, whereas a good driver will see it in the distance and maneuver around. Not the best scenario for NOA. 

Used this morning. Worked "ok". Had to intervene once where it did not detect a car in my blind spot and wanted to start changing lanes right into it! There were a few instances also where the car indicated a lane change and then waited and waited despite it being all clear......and THEN cut someone off. This happened twice. It wasn't a nasty cut off, but enough that someone is going to honk or flash at me one of these times. 

It was interesting watching it handle multi-lane highways. At one point I was in the left lane on BW8 and I need to get over 3 lanes to get off on I-10 West. NOA correctly predicts which lane I need to get over to but it's interesting to see when it decides to try to get over. It's not as good as a human at knowing that the lane is coming up in say 2 miles, and the gap you see now might not be there for another two miles, let's take it. Instead it waits, and then "makes a gap". It will slow down / speed up to get into the "slot" to make the lane change. Usually smoothly, sometimes a little herky-jerky. Sometimes you have to sit there for a while, blinker flashing, until someone opens up a bit and lets you in. 

Ramps from highway to highway it's still not great on. Slows down way too much, especially on the long straight portion of the ramp. 

Overall it was "interesting". I'm still not sure how much I will use it. Unlikely to use during my morning commute, it's just not as good at predicting gaps and when to get over. Also, it still wants me to get into the cash lanes on BW 8 and that freaking annoys the hell out of me. After about 5 "cancels" I turned off NOA until I passed the tollbooth. I will say that when I was not using NOA, but requested a lane change, it was much smoother and more confident than it has ever been. And unlike my last few software updates, there was no period of recalibration, where I was getting phantom braking, aborted lane change swerving, etc. This was pretty damn smooth.


----------



## TrevP

8.4 is really buggy for me. Several screen reboots. Yesterday the door buttons on my Model X refused to work until I pressed the keyfob several times. MCU screen was completely black (Sheryl Crow symptom) and my steering wheel didn't move into position like it normally does (Easy entry). Blinkers didn't work. Had to reboot the screen.
I thought it was perhaps me starting to use the dashcam and sentry mode in the car so I unplugged the USB key for now.

I don't remember a release being this buggy since I got my car but I know Tesla will fix the issues in due time, it's just frustrating to have been on 2018.50.6 for so long and wanting an new update only to be let down with some pretty glaring issues. I'm going to try the car now and see if it's any better with the dashcam turned off.


----------



## Needsdecaf

N54tt said:


> Interesting. I didn't have 8.4 for long...but it didn't start happening to me until immediately after 8.5


I got these even on 5.15.

I think it just "started" regardless of software update.


----------



## RoccoX

Got 8.5 last night, lane changes are sssooo much better, one off ramp that 5.15 always had issues with worked flawlessly. Very happy with this update so far.


----------



## Gdepau

I tried out NOA after this update and it works better than ever! Very smooth accelerating and braking. I did not experience phantom braking even when I got cutoff by a quick lane change ahead of me by about 2 car lengths. Also, on 2018.8.3 I had the back-up camera screen go black for a 3-4 seconds when I put it in reverse, that seems to have been fixed on the 2019.8.5 update.


----------



## Pdadddy

relidtm said:


> @SoFlaModel3
> already dropped a video !


If I knew you were going to Home Depot, I would have asked you to pick up a few things for me.


----------



## NOGA$4ME

Golden Gate said:


> Does the new neural net improve the auto wiper functionality?


In my opinion, yes. Previously it would not activate until visibility was uncomfortably low. It activates much sooner now. Thanks Tesla.

However, as people like @ChiTesla might think, maybe it's _too_ eager to activate. This does appear to be the case with me. We are in the midst of pollen season here and I think last night after having been parked outside it ran the wipers for awhile, presumably wiping away some pollen, but on other evenings where I have not noticed any pollen that it activates for some reason. And the downside is that while it's easy to manually activate the wipers if you feel comfortable with the visibility, it is pretty hard to de-activate them when they appear to be running for no reason.


----------



## ChiTesla

NOGA$4ME said:


> In my opinion, yes. Previously it would not activate until visibility was uncomfortably low. It activates much sooner now. Thanks Tesla.
> 
> However, as people like @ChiTesla might think, maybe it's _too_ eager to activate. This does appear to be the case with me. We are in the midst of pollen season here and I think last night after having been parked outside it ran the wipers for awhile, presumably wiping away some pollen, but on other evenings where I have not noticed any pollen that it activates for some reason. And the downside is that while it's easy to manually activate the wipers if you feel comfortable with the visibility, it is pretty hard to de-activate them when they appear to be running for no reason.


I did drive many hours yesterday in the rain and when I parked my care in the garage last night, it was wet. This morning, the windshield was dry. Could there be a moisture sensor beneath the wiper blade parking area that retained water to cause the wipers to activate?

I do believe that the wipers are working better, even since update 8.3.


----------



## NOGA$4ME

ChiTesla said:


> I did drive many hours yesterday in the rain and when I parked my care in the garage last night, it was wet. This morning, the windshield was dry. Could there be a moisture sensor beneath the wiper blade parking area that retained water to cause the wipers to activate?
> 
> I do believe that the wipers are working better, even since update 8.3.


Interesting theory. I too have noticed that my wipers activate after a night parked in the garage (and with a dry/clear windshield). I'll have to keep track of whether or not it had rained the previous night.


----------



## MelindaV

a bug I've not heard others mention yet....
this morning when leaving home, a swipe down on the nav brought up routing to my house (that I was currently parked at) instead of to work as it has always before when starting out from home. canceled and tried again 2 more times and each time it had me driving around the block. Apparently, my car wanted to take a mental health day today instead of going to work.


----------



## ChiTesla

MelindaV said:


> a bug I've not heard others mention yet....
> this morning when leaving home, a swipe down on the nav brought up routing to my house (that I was currently parked at) instead of to work as it has always before when starting out from home. canceled and tried again 2 more times and each time it had me driving around the block. Apparently, my car wanted to take a mental health day today instead of going to work.


Hmm. I had never used the "swipe down" from nav. Thanks. I always "tapped" nav and would choose home or work.

Maybe your car just lost GPS and/or data for a moment.


----------



## MelindaV

ChiTesla said:


> Hmm. I had never used the "swipe down" from nav. Thanks. I always "tapped" nav and would choose home or work.
> 
> Maybe your car just lost GPS and/or data for a moment.


maybe it lost it's GPS, but while moving it tracked as normal.... and for data, it was connected to wifi at that point (and with a signal, as I was able to record and send a bug report).


----------



## MelindaV

ChiTesla said:


> Hmm. I had never used the "swipe down" from nav. Thanks. I always "tapped" nav and would choose home or work.


you should! it saves that extra tap and has always worked perfectly (until today).


----------



## iChris93

MelindaV said:


> you should! it saves that extra tap and has always worked perfectly (until today).


Swiping right also works! Or at least used to.


----------



## Needsdecaf

MelindaV said:


> you should! it saves that extra tap and has always worked perfectly (until today).


That's an odd one. I'll have to look out for it.

My issue with this method is that the range isn't far. If I do this after I drop the kids off at school, which is like 1.5 miles from home, it tries to send me back home instead of work.

Waze, on the other hand, can tell what time it is and asks me when I boot up if I want to go to work.


----------



## Long Ranger

garsh said:


> The front passenger seat heater has twice turned off for no apparent reason last night.
> The occupant wasn't too happy. I'll have to test that some more and file a bug.





iChris93 said:


> I this still present in 8.5?


Yes, seat heater shut off on my wife again this morning. This time on 8.5. It's been doing it all week on 8.3. It seems to happen almost every time after we turn on seat heaters from the app, then seat shuts off after driving about 20ft (as it does now when there is no passenger). Once she turns it back on, it seems to stay on.

This behavior might be aggravated by using Summon, but not sure yet. I do use Summon after preheating and before we get in the car, but the seat heater is still on when she gets in. It shuts off after we start driving.

It has happened (in 8.3) at least once with no Summon and no app preheat. In that case, I was picking her up. I turned on seat heater manually while driving, stopped and put the car in park, she got in, seat heater was on, then seat turned off as we drove away.


----------



## pdp1

ChiTesla said:


> I did drive many hours yesterday in the rain and when I parked my care in the garage last night, it was wet. This morning, the windshield was dry. Could there be a moisture sensor beneath the wiper blade parking area that retained water to cause the wipers to activate?
> 
> I do believe that the wipers are working better, even since update 8.3.


This happens to me every once in a while after parking the the garage and having a dry windshield when I get in the car the next day, the wipers turn on for a bit. I thought maybe it was water spots on the windshield combined with the array of visible nails in the drywall that confused the camera/computer.


----------



## Francois Gaucher

Long Ranger said:


> Yes, seat heater shut off on my wife again this morning. This time on 8.5. It's been doing it all week on 8.3. It seems to happen almost every time after we turn on seat heaters from the app, then seat shuts off after driving about 20ft (as it does now when there is no passenger). Once she turns it back on, it seems to stay on.
> 
> This behavior might be aggravated by using Summon, but not sure yet. I do use Summon after preheating and before we get in the car, but the seat heater is still on when she gets in. It shuts off after we start driving.
> 
> It has happened (in 8.3) at least once with no Summon and no app preheat. In that case, I was picking her up. I turned on seat heater manually while driving, stopped and put the car in park, she got in, seat heater was on, then seat turned off as we drove away.


I also have this behaviour with my model 3 since 8.3.


----------



## victor

Well, well, well...


----------



## AJA

Just finished a 215 mile drive using autopilot the entire way, version 8.5. Overall the auto pilot is much smoother and the NoA lane changes are well executed. No cancellations of lane changes. On one occasion it got confused by a short offramp and the loss of the line marker on the right side. The major surprise is how inconsiderate other drivers are since the system signals for approximately three seconds before it makes a lane change. On at least two different occasions a driver in the left lane accelerated to prevent me from getting into the left lane!


----------



## NJturtlePower

Anybody with a basic AP upgrade on 8.5? Guessing no new features, just the related bug fixes.

I have also been noticing a lot of black screen delay when selecting reverse on 8.3.


----------



## undergrove

NOGA$4ME said:


> In my opinion, yes. Previously it would not activate until visibility was uncomfortably low. It activates much sooner now. Thanks Tesla.


This is very preliminary, but we drove home last night in rain that started as a very light sprinkle and changed to a medium solid rain and back. The wiper speed seemed perfectly in synch with the rain as conditions changed. It seems much better than in the past.

The only caveat I have is that this was near dusk, and I have noticed in previous firmware versions that the wipers adjusted more appropriately in the light around dusk than during the day or night.


----------



## Truav8r

Anybody with no AP/EAP/FSD on 8.5?? I’m on 8.4, but wondering if non-AP cars are also seeing updates to 8.5.


----------



## Dr. Prunesquallor

NJturtlePower said:


> Anybody with a basic AP upgrade on 8.5? Guessing no new features, just the related bug fixes.
> 
> I have also been noticing a lot of black screen delay when selecting reverse on 8.3.


I was getting those too. I sent bug reports every time. I have not noticed them on 8.5.


----------



## MelindaV

I noticed today when steering out of lane keeping (if EAP or NoA), was much smoother that any prior release. No jerky reaction to leaving autosteer.


----------



## Bokonon

MelindaV said:


> I noticed today when steering out of lane keeping (if EAP or NoA), was much smoother that any prior release. No jerky reaction to leaving autosteer.


Does it also feel like it takes less force to steer out of Autosteer vs previously? It feels that way to me, but now that you describe it this way, I'm wondering whether it's just that the disengagement is smoother.

Whatever it is, I noticed it in 2019.8.4 too... Mostly because I've found Autosteer uncomfortably close to / over the lane line around curves at 50+ mph, which caused me to apply enough precautionary force to the wheel to disengage.


----------



## MelindaV

I don't think it takes less force, but it isn't as noticeable when it does steer out of it.


----------



## Long Ranger

I was a bit disappointed with AP and NOA today, but its behavior wasn't all that unexpected.

AP didn't show any improvement for me. Still has wildly inconsistent following distance and lots of hesitant, jittery driving due to cars in adjacent lanes.

NOA w/o confirmation made a few really nice lane changes, but generally wasn't too usable in moderate traffic. It's a bit unsettling when the wheel starts to vibrate for a lane change and it's simultaneously showing a car in red next to you with a red lane marking. It aborted one auto lane change half way through with no one else around. Then just lots of poor lane choices, and many delayed attempts, as expected.


----------



## derichio02

Darn it. I’m currently on 8.3 and received an update today (guessing 8.5) but the update failed! How does the model 3 handle these failures I have only had my M3 one month.


----------



## Kizzy

I've spent the last couple of days without WiFi for my car. 



Lgkahn said:


> Another issue at least in prior f/ws for me is that when their are more than 3 lanes it also interprets the other lanes as passing lanes and tries to get you out of the 2nd from the left for instance by saying "exit passing lane" as well. I have reported this as a bug... will see if it is fixed in this release otherwise again it is going to be annoying. It would really be nice if they added more logic for the "exit passing lane warning" based on whether you were coming up on traffic going slower in the right lane or not, and also whether someone was coming up fast behind you or on your ass. Kind of the way a real drive would use information before getting out of passing lane!


I've noticed that the prompts to leave the second from the left lane (of three or more lanes) in my experience is due to the far left lane being an HOV lane and therefore the middle of the three lanes would be viewed as the passing lane. This logic fails when the HOV lane is time-based (as many are).


----------



## Emerald AP

derichio02 said:


> Darn it. I'm currently on 8.3 and received an update today (guessing 8.5) but the update failed! How does the model 3 handle these failures I have only had my M3 one month.


I've had one failed update in my 10 months with the car. The symptoms may vary based on how much of the update went through. I've seen Forum members complaining about warnings but with no impact, and severe issues (e.g., mine, worse than mine). I had "update failed/contact Tesla service" warnings on the display so I'd called Service, which was generally sympathetic but unable/unwilling to push the update again.

While on a 150 mi drive, new errors showed up "Autopilot unvailable" in addition to the old. I logged bug reports from the steering wheel and sure enough, within the hour, I received a push, and all was well 20 mins from then.


----------



## DocScott

Emerald AP said:


> I've had one failed update in my 10 months with the car. The symptoms may vary based on how much of the update went through. I've seen Forum members complaining about warnings but with no impact, and severe issues (e.g., mine, worse than mine). I had "update failed/contact Tesla service" warnings on the display so I'd called Service, which was generally sympathetic but unable/unwilling to push the update again.
> 
> While on a 150 mi drive, new errors showed up "Autopilot unvailiable" in addition to the old. I logged bug reports from the steering wheel and sure enough, within the hour, I received a push, and all was well 20 mins from then.


At the risk of going off-topic again and being moved to another thread, I wonder how many reported bugs are due to mildly corrupted updates? If an update corrupted enough to generate the warning can do things like cause AP to be sporadically unavailable, could a few scrambled bytes get by without generating a warning, and yet cause issues like random resets, microphones that stop working, etc.? It would explain a lot of reported behavior.


----------



## FF35

DocScott said:


> At the risk of going off-topic again and being moved to another thread, I wonder how many reported bugs are due to mildly corrupted updates? If an update corrupted enough to generate the warning can do things like cause AP to be sporadically unavailable, could a few scrambled bytes get by without generating a warning, and yet cause issues like random resets, microphones that stop working, etc.? It would explain a lot of reported behavior.


I'd say it's impossible. The most likely cause of "bugs" is due to a set of operations that occur one after another that weren't heavily tested. Or, the "bugs" may have been seen but they weren't important enough to fix right away.


----------



## sduck

DocScott said:


> At the risk of going off-topic again and being moved to another thread, I wonder how many reported bugs are due to mildly corrupted updates? If an update corrupted enough to generate the warning can do things like cause AP to be sporadically unavailable, could a few scrambled bytes get by without generating a warning, and yet cause issues like random resets, microphones that stop working, etc.? It would explain a lot of reported behavior.


I agree with FF35. One thing I've seen repeatedly is that doing the basic reboots fixes a majority of the little problems that seem to crop up after an update. So, I'll repeat the advice I got nearly a year ago which has worked wonderfully for me and many others - after each update, do the reboots. This includes the whole car power down, and the 2 button and brake rreset, and the just two button one if you want.


----------



## enowu

victor said:


> Well, well, well...
> 
> View attachment 24417


Hopefully it has track mode?


----------



## derichio02

How does one send a bug report? (I have been a Software QA Engineer for the last 14 years)


----------



## FF35

derichio02 said:


> How does one send a bug report? (I have been a Software QA Engineer for the last 14 years)


Press the right scroll wheel, say "bug report" followed by your complaint.


----------



## sduck

derichio02 said:


> How does one send a bug report? (I have been a Software QA Engineer for the last 14 years)


Or use the Ask A Question form in your account page.


----------



## derichio02

Thanks for the quick reply!


----------



## SR22pilot

It rained and I was disappointed the 8.5 still lets my windshield get covered before it wipes. From my experience auto wipers are still horrible.

The auto lane change has a big limitation. It insists on making sure you are holding the wheel. This results in a delay such that the car wants to pull in front of a car that is rushing up in the side lane. It would start with a relatively clear lane but waited too long.

I am also disappointed that NoA still wants to move 2 lanes to the left when it is less than three miles to a right exit. NoA seems oblivious to the fact that in heavy traffic you have to get over early even if it means driving slower.

Speed around corners was good but the car drove a bit wide.


----------



## Midnit3

Dog mode is gone? I know you could do the same with climate.


----------



## scottf200

As of now over 60% with a pretty big selection (2500+ TeslaFI).


----------



## BigBri

8.5 appears to be doing a large Canadian rollout tonight. Someone will have to confirm if it's no confirmation NOA.

Edit: Just got it. Installing now.. will update details.

Edit: It's NOA without confirmation! Strangely enough the top entry is peak power increase though.


----------



## Bokonon

Midnit3 said:


> Dog mode is gone? I know you could do the same with climate.


I still have Dog Mode available in 8.5.

Is Sentry Mode active?


----------



## Dale Gardner

sduck said:


> I agree with FF35. One thing I've seen repeatedly is that doing the basic reboots fixes a majority of the little problems that seem to crop up after an update. So, I'll repeat the advice I got nearly a year ago which has worked wonderfully for me and many others - after each update, do the reboots. This includes the whole car power down, and the 2 button and brake rreset, and the just two button one if you want.


I've never done any reboot on my car and everything works fine. The update process already includes validity checks and reboots everything. There is definitely a placebo effect going on with these post-update reboots.


----------



## sduck

Dale Gardner said:


> I've never done any reboot on my car and everything works fine. The update process already includes validity checks and reboots everything. There is definitely a placebo effect going on with these post-update reboots.


Could be. Every time I post that, and every time I see it posted by others, it gets the same response like yours. And as I said, very similar to what you said, I always do the reboots and everything works fine. Maybe it doesn't matter. Doesn't take long though, and is easy insurance. Your line - "update process already includes validity checks and reboots everything" - is there any proof of this? Has anyone actually watched the process on a monitor? I've heard versions of this before, but it's not something that's verifiable I think.


----------



## derichio02

In my case since the update failed when would it be available for downloading again? Has anyone ever been stuck?


----------



## Bernard

GDN said:


> I did overlook it was a point release, but one can hope. The SW is way strung out right now with the different features they were testing. They really need a unified release and then they need to get the beta testers lined up well and get their testing lined up with them vs the general public. Maybe they open the beta program to those that want to be in, could get in as well. They've got too many cars on the road now to have 10 releases rolling around. I could see 3 or 4 groups of beta's with a few thousand cars in each one. Then a good unified release every 45 to 60 days. They can't continue the history of releases from the past 3 months.


Why not? I see no particular reason why all cars in the fleet should be on the same release. For one thing, it's pretty clear from what we can see on TeslaFi that some releases are aimed primarily at Model 3 and some primarily at Models S and X (esp. versions with AP <= 2.0); then you get point versions fixing minor bugs, cars that have not been updated for some time because they are difficult to reach (poor cellular and wifi connections), and beta versions. It does make for quite a mix of versions out there, but I would think it's perfectly normal.
The important part is that every car keeps getting updated, on a reasonably frequent basis (every few months or so). Some cars will leapfrog others, but then get leapfrogged themselves -- no big deal as long as progress keeps being made.


----------



## Bernard

derichio02 said:


> In my case since the update failed when would it be available for downloading again? Has anyone ever been stuck?


I've had a failed upgrade earlier this year, but that was no big deal, first because Tesla is very careful -- a failed upgrade simply means that you continue with the firmware you already had and so nothing goes "wrong" -- and second because, about 3 weeks later, I got a successful (different) upgrade. I don't think anyone has ever been stuck, although some folks have posted on this forum that they had to wait for many months for their next upgrade.
.We all have different levels of patience for this process -- some folks see a new firmware on Teslafi or in the forum and immediately start counting the days until they get it, so they are bound to get tense and unhappy since they may or may not get any particular firmware ;-) There is no uniform pattern, since Tesla seems to stop firmware upgrades before they have been pushed to all applicable cars as soon as they have a newer version to push or confirmation through feedback that some new feature is not up to par.


----------



## Mike

BigBri said:


> 8.5 appears to be doing a large Canadian rollout tonight. Someone will have to confirm if it's no confirmation NOA.
> 
> Edit: Just got it. Installing now.. will update details.
> 
> Edit: It's NOA without confirmation! Strangely enough the top entry is peak power increase though.


I hope it clears up my 8.4 issues that include hugging the left side of the lane, lane changes I want to make while on NOA only having a 50/50 chance of actually not being aborted, rain reducing NOA to simple lane keeping........


----------



## slasher016

I used NOA with the new auto-lane changes today. I was highly impressed. The only time I cancelled a lane change was when there was a cop on the shoulder and I didn't want to get close to him/her. Whether or not it was luck or intended, it also took me off the exit ramp and onto a surface street (a right turn.) I did have to press the accelerator to tell it to resume after it stopped at a stop sign. Very nice update so far.


----------



## garsh

sduck said:


> Your line - "update process already includes validity checks and reboots everything" - is there any proof of this? Has anyone actually watched the process on a monitor?


I sat in the car for my first two updates and can confirm that it reboots the MCU as the last step. At least, the screen goes all black for a while, then the Tesla logo appears, just like during any other reboot.


----------



## RichEV

sduck said:


> Or use the Ask A Question form in your account page.


I used "Ask a Question" for the first time last week. There was no acknowledgment email sent. There is no record of the question online that I can see. I have gotten zero response.

Have others had a better experience with this comm method? Perhaps I'm just missing something?

I regret using the method because I sent a fairly detailed question and there is no record of it.


----------



## Kizzy

RichEV said:


> I used "Ask a Question" for the first time last week. There was no acknowledgment email sent. There is no record of the question online that I can see. I have gotten zero response.
> 
> Have others had a better experience with this comm method? Perhaps I'm just missing something?
> 
> I regret using the method because I sent a fairly detailed question and there is no record of it.


I prefer sending an email to the address listed at the top of this forum ([email protected]) as I get a record of my email and an actual human (eventually) replies.


----------



## NightStorm

I tried the non-confirm lane change of NOA for the first time during my commute to work last Friday. I had the feedback set to both vibrate the steering wheel and chime. It worked only "OK" but it makes for a less than polite highway citizen. I suspect that the car cannot see vehicles behind at any distance so more often than not it would signal and start a move to the next lane as someone was coming up to overtake. I'd have to abort.
Once it moved to the left lane to overtake a slower vehicle in front of me, started to overtake it, then changed its mind. The car slowed quickly and pulled back in behind that vehicle. It then signaled to go back into the left lane again. Feering a loop (and with other traffic coming up behind) I took over to make the overtake manually.
Later in the same commute I was in the center lane with three empty lanes ahead. It signaled and started to move to the left lane for no apparent benefit. I gave it up and completed the remaining commute manually.
I am looking forward to see this evolve.


----------



## Mike

NightStorm said:


> I am looking forward to see this evolve.


100% agree.

I did two test runs today with no-confirmation NOA, with a "set Sentry Mode on" parking event separating the two runs.

Once I learned the "trick" regarding pressure on the wheel and delay to actual action when NOA wants to do a lane change.....it was, as you said, okay.

I found, even with "Mad Max" mode selected, much hesitation before actually beginning a NOA directed lane change.

The first couple of times, the system was asking for my steering wheel confirmation and I'd apply torque in the intended direction of the lane change.....only to disengage the auto-steer.

Once I recognized that after I apply torque, the system still has to think about actually starting to change lanes for about two seconds.....almost "lethargic" in its approach to lane changes.....it finally worked as advertised (very light traffic situation).

Also, the system still does not look ahead enough.

It will come upon an 18-wheeler in the right lane and slow down prior to wanting to do a lane change, and this is with no traffic in the left lane to impede the way.

On my second test leg, NOA did NOT automatically self initiate (even though that option is selected and it did auto-on correctly for the first run).

I suspect the use of Sentry Mode (may have) caused a hiccup.

Once I got home, did a two scroll reset, inserted a new route and the system immediately went into NOA mode.......

Bug report was sent.


----------



## Vince3

I still don’t see the 325
Miles range adjustment. I’m at 276 miles at 90% SOC.


----------



## TrevP

Things have been rock solid since I pulled out the USB key. I think my older MCU in my X just can’t handle the dashcam and sentry mode. This morning I got 2019.8.5 with the new no confirm NoA lane change which is really impressive.


----------



## 350VDC

I have been sitting at my workbench in the garage today and noticed that the car now seems to be waking up more often for no reason. A couple of clunks and other noises follow each time. When it wakes it is turning the 12V power on. I can see the dashcam light coming on through the windshield. I do not have sentry mode on. I tried doing a shutdown on the screen but it still wakes up and turns the power on. Nothing happens on the screen.
Anyone else notice this behavior? I do not think it was happening before 8.5.


----------



## slasher016

Mike said:


> I found, even with "Mad Max" mode selected, much hesitation before actually beginning a NOA directed lane change.


As an FYI Mad Max mode just makes the car want to switch lanes when it notices a slowdown at all (even 1 mph) it doesn't make the car more aggressive in actually changing lanes.


----------



## sduck

RichEV said:


> I used "Ask a Question" for the first time last week. There was no acknowledgment email sent. There is no record of the question online that I can see. I have gotten zero response.
> 
> Have others had a better experience with this comm method? Perhaps I'm just missing something?
> 
> I regret using the method because I sent a fairly detailed question and there is no record of it.


About a week to even several weeks is how long it takes for them to respond, but at least in my case, they have responded eventually to everything.


----------



## aronth5

slasher016 said:


> As an FYI Mad Max mode just makes the car want to switch lanes when it notices a slowdown at all (even 1 mph) it doesn't make the car more aggressive in actually changing lanes.


Agree. You are also seeing a lot of posters who as a result of 8.5 are changing Mad Max to "average" which is avoiding some of the additional lane changes that create problems. I also changed to "average" and it improved the experience.


----------



## Bokonon

Since installing 8.5 (or possibly 8.4, which I only had for two days), all of my dashcam files (both saved and recent) are exactly 595 bytes.  Tried reformatting the dashcam partition to no avail. There are also no .REC files from fsck in the root of the drive. Anyone else seeing anything similar?


----------



## Needsdecaf

Anyone have any issues with release notes? When I loaded the software I noticed the bottom was cut off. Now I show nothing. 

Owners manual still completely blank too, as it has been for a long time.


----------



## oripaamoni

Anybody having audio issues with 8.5? Rear speakers just make random clicking sounds and no sub, worked fine for the first few days after the update. 2 button reset didn't help.


----------



## Francois Gaucher

oripaamoni said:


> Anybody having audio issues with 8.5? Rear speakers just make random clicking sounds and no sub, worked fine for the first few days after the update. 2 button reset didn't help.


I got that problem earlier this winter. It was before 2019.8.3. May be 2018.50.5. It last one day. Tesla push me the same firmware and it never come back.


----------



## MelindaV

Needsdecaf said:


> Anyone have any issues with release notes? When I loaded the software I noticed the bottom was cut off. Now I show nothing.
> 
> Owners manual still completely blank too, as it has been for a long time.


Do a 2button reboot and they should come back


----------



## Mike

slasher016 said:


> As an FYI Mad Max mode just makes the car want to switch lanes when it notices a slowdown at all (even 1 mph) it doesn't make the car more aggressive in actually changing lanes.


Agreed.

My observations are even with that mode selected, I come up to slower moving traffic and slow down to match it's speed before NOA recommends a lane change to pass.


----------



## Mike

aronth5 said:


> Agree. You are also seeing a lot of posters who as a result of 8.5 are changing Mad Max to "average" which is avoiding some of the additional lane changes that create problems. I also changed to "average" and it improved the experience.


Does your vehicle have a two second buffer between torque being applied to the steering-wheel and actual lane change commencement?

That's the issue I am seeing with this update.

It's too lathargic, I might as well tap the turn signal stalk or simply go with manual control.


----------



## MelindaV

Mike said:


> Does your vehicle have a two second buffer between torque being applied to the steering-wheel and actual lane change commencement?
> 
> That's the issue I am seeing with this update.
> 
> It's too lathargic, I might as well tap the turn signal stalk or simply go with manual control.


it needs to recognize your hands on the wheel prior to the lane change starting according to Elon's tweet

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1115030748065480704


----------



## Mike

MelindaV said:


> it needs to recognize your hands on the wheel prior to the lane change starting according to Elon's tweet
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1115030748065480704


Agreed.

My standard operating procedure is two hands on the wheel, NOA lane change suggestion appears, I apply rotational torque (in the direction it wants to go) and then count two seconds before the car actually begins to steer.

Prior to knowing I needed to allow two seconds between torque application and actually beginning a lane change, I was always getting disengagements as I inadvertently took over control.


----------



## kendthomp

After using NoA several times with less than perfect results, I'm wondering if the NN will learn from being corrected. ie. trying to change to an "exit only" lane when the route shown doesn't exit at that location. The highway goes from 3 lanes to 2 lanes with the right lane being forced off later down the road.


----------



## Needsdecaf

MelindaV said:


> it needs to recognize your hands on the wheel prior to the lane change starting according to Elon's tweet
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1115030748065480704


The force required is a tad high. I almost always keep my hand lightly resting on the wheel, but sometimes that isn't enough. This morning I pulled to get rid of the notification and it actually cancelled NOA / Autosteer alltogether. Maybe I should start flipping the volume scroll instead.


----------



## MelindaV

Needsdecaf said:


> The force required is a tad high. I almost always keep my hand lightly resting on the wheel, but sometimes that isn't enough. This morning I pulled to get rid of the notification and it actually cancelled NOA / Autosteer alltogether.


similar experience. I always have a hand on the wheel and on (non NoA) AP, never get the hands on the wheel warnings... but with NoA, it seems that isn't enough force to confirm you are paying attention at a lane change. (also, the hand-off to the driver steering is 100% better than it has been, so when inadvertently steering out of AP, it isn't has much of an issue as there is no jerking).


----------



## evannole

I did my first highway drive with this firmware this morning. Unfortunately, NOA remains unusable for me on my daily commute, for the following reasons:

1) I am in metro Atlanta. The first part of my drive is on the new Northwest Corridor express lanes that parallel I-75. Tesla navigation never suggests that I take these lanes, even though they're almost always the fastest option. (I do have toll lanes enabled in the navigation settings.) Once I am on them, the car seems to understand where I am - they are correctly shown on the map, and the car usually correctly indicates that my next move will be to exit to the right to access the regular I-75 lanes when the express lanes end. However, Autopilot is generally unusable on this five mile stretch of express lanes as the system doesn't have consistent speed limit data for them, and when that data disappears it appears to assume that they've suddenly become exit ramps or surface streets; when this happens, it suddenly reduces my maximum speed to about 40 mph, which is quite jarring when you're doing 65 mph.

2) When the express lanes end, they dump me straight into the HOV lane on I-75, which is great, as my alternative fuel vehicle tag enables me to drive solo in HOV lanes. I don't have to exit the highway until ~5 miles south of downtown Atlanta, and typically start moving to the right just as I am leaving downtown, as it can take a little while to get over 4 or 5 lanes, as I have to. However, the car wants me to leave the HOV lanes 15 miles before my exit, and 10 miles before even I would ever do so, and I am a cautious and defensive driver, always in the proper lane well ahead of time. I do have HOV lanes enabled in my navigation settings. When I tap "ignore" on the screen, the lane change prompt appears again in less than 2 seconds. The HOV lanes are almost always moving more quickly than the general purpose lanes, and the system wants me to move over to the right no matter what setting I am using for speed-based lane changes.

3) When I finally reach my exit, the car does take it, but slows unnecessarily by about 10 mph, from ~60 mph to ~50, before reaching the point where the exit veers off. The exit is a mile-long flyover and there's no need to slow down at all until the curved portion begins, which is well beyond the point of exit. Such a slowdown is liable to anger drivers behind me or, worse, get me rear-ended.

These are all problems that I have experienced on prior versions of NOA and am still seeing on 8.5. I have let Tesla know of them in the past, to no avail.

I will say that acceleration, deceleration and lane changes all seem pretty good on this version. Apart from the stretches of toll lane where missing speed limit data is a problem, I can use EAP on my commute with a high degree of confidence. Unfortunately, however, the promise of NOA remains unfulfilled for my particular situation, and I will have to leave it disabled for the time being.


----------



## njkode

I have not gotten to use NOA since this update, I do notice that the rear camera issue (where it would be black or several seconds when turning it on or going into reverse) seems to be corrected. I'll have a NOA drive later this week.


----------



## RUN TM3

MelindaV said:


> it needs to recognize your hands on the wheel prior to the lane change starting according to Elon's tweet


It would be nice if they posted instructions for this kind of thing to everyone as opposed to only Elon's twitter followers.


----------



## MelindaV

RUN TM3 said:


> It would be nice if they posted instructions for this kind of thing to everyone as opposed to only Elon's twitter followers.


you mean like the Release Notes?


release notes said:


> Note: With confirmation turned off, lane changes will only be made once we've confirmed that the driver's hands are on the wheel."


----------



## RUN TM3

Doh!


----------



## Mike

A copy of my 2019.8.5 de-brief I sent to Tesla today:

---------

On 07 Apr 2019, I installed 2019.8.5

The following two trips are my first and second use of this software version in a freeway setting.

The following are observations regarding my experienced events that are unique (to me) to this latest software version.

Note: "Mad Max" setting was used; NOA automatically on (when available) setting was used; having NOA automatically lane change for me, with only a chime to warn me, setting was used.

Trip number one was (about 1710 EDT to 1735 EDT) on Sunday, 07 Apr 2019; home to Belleville ON via Hwy 401; sunny and temp was 15c.

NOA and AP: My first five (5) attempts at acknowledging NOA desire to change lanes to pass slower traffic resulted in me inadvertently taking manual control of the steering (de-coupling from auto-steer).

My steering wheel technique: both hands on the wheel at all times with rotational torque in the desired direction of travel applied as soon as NOA warned of a lane change.

On my sixth (6th) attempt, I realized one had to hold the torque and WAIT two (2) seconds before the vehicle would initiate the lane change.

For the remainder of the first trip and the entire second trip, once I understood that there is a seemingly lethargic two (2) second delay between the input of the steering wheel torque and actual lane change commencement, NOA would make the lane change "automatically".

Simply tapping the turn signal stalk would be faster to accomplish the same thing.

Trip number two was (about 1907 EDT to 1932 EDT) on Sunday, 07 Apr 2019; Belleville ON to home via Hwy 401; sunny and temp was 17c.

NOA did not automatically enable itself at the start of this leg.

I suspect my use of "Sentry Mode" while parked prior to this trip may have something to do with it.

I did a full reset once I arrived home and then entered another trip into the UI and NOA correctly self initiated.

--------------------------------------

Other 2019.3.5 observations:

NOA (and EAP in general) still does not look farther ahead or behind for "the big picture".

On a number of occasions, the system would bring me quickly up to a lumbering 18-wheeler and slow down to match the target speed, then decide it wanted to pass.

Instead of passing earlier with a clear traffic situation in the left (passing) lane, I found myself "boxed in" behind the slower target as other traffic was now occupying the left (passing) lane.

------------

There is still an affinity for the left side of the lane (as observed with 2019.8.3).

In normal driving conditions, the software "should" actually be fluid in its lane position……staying in the center under normal conditions, giving wide berth to passing large trucks by biasing to the far side of the lane away from said large truck, etc.

------------

Passenger side front seat heater automatically shutting off when vehicle put into gear:

I believe this bug has actually been introduced into my car with 8.3 or 8.4.

In any event, regardless of how the seat heater was turned on (end of last trip, remote app, manually upon entering the vehicle), the net result is the passenger front seat heater is turning itself off once the vehicle gets underway.

Thank you,

Cheers

Mike


----------



## Nautilus

Just noticed on TeslaFi that a Model X 100D in British Columbia just went from version 8.5 back to 8.3.

Someone please remind why this would happen, especially since 8.5 is in such wide release? Thanks!


----------



## Needsdecaf

evannole said:


> 3) When I finally reach my exit, the car does take it, but slows unnecessarily by about 10 mph, from ~60 mph to ~50, before reaching the point where the exit veers off. The exit is a mile-long flyover and there's no need to slow down at all until the curved portion begins, which is well beyond the point of exit. Such a slowdown is liable to anger drivers behind me or, worse, get me rear-ended.
> .


I noticed that as well. The car had me down to 50 in a 65 (with 70 MPH average speed) while I was still in the travel lanes. Glad no one was behind me.

All in all, NOA for me is kind of a novelty still. To me, it's best on my ride home, where I take the longer, less trafficked route, and therefore it's just passing cars and returning to the travel lane afterward. In heavier traffic or more complex situations the human behind the wheel is smarter and most surely smoother. But I'm happy to let it do it's thing and train the system a bit. For the most part, regular EAP with "manually" selected lane changes is smoother and more preferable.

I appreciate the NN upgrade which has made "regular" EAP much smoother now.


----------



## sola scientia

Of the 175km or so with this thing enabled for automatic lane change, about 140km was fairly uneventful. Most of that 140km was at night, so that was nice.

However, in non-trivial traffic, there are really serious problems due to systemic violations of the One True Rule: *No vehicle shall ever exercise any free choice that causes another vehicle to modify its behavior.*

Basically, the car as programmed and configured, drives like a bully in moderate traffic. The most serious problem is the tendency to change lanes into the path of a passing vehicle.

Is there a setting that changes this? Can I tell the car how large a space, and for how long that space should exist and expect to exist, be before it attempts to move into it?

It seems that it is very easy to program a car to make changes with mathematical precision -- think Terminator 2's gas station entrance -- but this would needlessly terrify other drivers. I want a patience knob!


----------



## sduck

oripaamoni said:


> Anybody having audio issues with 8.5? Rear speakers just make random clicking sounds and no sub, worked fine for the first few days after the update. 2 button reset didn't help.


What tesla has suggested as a possible cure is powering down the car for a few minutes, until everything stops, and then restarting it. Seems to work for some people.


----------



## bwilson4web

Hi,

Barely the second week of SRM3+ ownership, has anyone measured the power increase?

Should the power increase also affect the maximum range? The reason I ask is as a decades long, Prius owner, I'm used to efficient driving. I have a SuperCharger benchmark that showed 240 miles but now I'm wondering if I'll see lower Wh/mi with the new version?

Thanks,
Bob Wilson


----------



## srjinatl

I noticed this am that the new/additional NOA settings (bottom 2) that came with this update are now greyed out for me - I did not have autopilot engaged at the time - but I wouldn't think that would be required to have these settings available. I did purchase FSD so that should not even be a factor. Anyone else notice this? Did Tesla deactivate these features?


----------



## GDN

srjinatl said:


> I noticed this am that the new/additional NOA settings (bottom 2) that came with this update are now greyed out for me - I did not have autopilot engaged at the time - but I wouldn't think that would be required to have these settings available. I did purchase FSD so that should not even be a factor. Anyone else notice this? Did Tesla deactivate these features?


Were you by chance driving at the time? Possibly only configurable while in Park?


----------



## srjinatl

GDN said:


> Were you by chance driving at the time? Possibly only configurable while in Park?


Good question - I believe I checked it this am before I backed out of my garage and then again when I was driving on my way to work - but I will double check that at lunch time and report back.


----------



## Trappist-1e

The rain sensing definitely got better, not perfect, but better. And I’m one of those people who were super critical of the terrible rain sensing abilities of this car. I can definitely see the light at the end of the tunnel as they improve this further.


----------



## Mike

It's been about six months since I had issues with "phone as key"........

I have an iPhone 6 that has been trouble free unlocking my car, etc, for the past six or so months.

My "normal" routine (as has been practiced for months on end) is to turn on the phone, via powering up the (home, living room table) charger at or about 0600.

After my morning walk and breakfast, prior to needing the car to go to the YMCA, I'll log into the phone, put it in my coat pocket and go use the car (locked, in my garage).

This morning, when I went to use the trunk, no response from the car....at all.

I tried the rear drivers side door handle.....no response, no clunks, no UI power up, nothing.

I tried the front drivers side door handle....no initial response, then after a few tries, the UI lit up asking for me to tap the key-card onto the b-pillar.

Each of the following actions, after being completed, I would turn the phone off and then back on to simulate first start of the day:

two scroll reset
power off reset
cycle phone Bluetooth off and on
remove phone as key and then re-install phone as key
sign out of phone app and re-sign in and remove phone as key then re-install phone as key
After powering off the phone and then re-starting the phone, waiting 60 seconds, then attempting to unlock the car, no joy.

The car would not respond to my actions, except after a few seconds the UI would flash up and ask for a key card to be used.

Last but not least:

remove app from phone and re-install app on phone.
Finally, after removing and re-installing the app, powering down the phone and then re-starting the phone, the car recognized my phone on the first attempt to unlock it via the rear drivers side door handle.

Hopefully there will be no repeat of this tomorrow morning.

A bug report (in car and detailed e-mail) was sent.


----------



## srjinatl

srjinatl said:


> Good question - I believe I checked it this am before I backed out of my garage and then again when I was driving on my way to work - but I will double check that at lunch time and report back.


Double checked this - and indeed - if car is in Park - those options are available - but once you start driving - they become disabled. Guess that makes some sense - just didn't connect the dots at first this am - I just have put the car in reverse before I checked those settings this morning when I found them disabled.


----------



## slasher016

Ok used to have this issue all the time.. but this time I'm not able to fix it. My dashcam USB is showing the gray X. I took the drive out of the car and put it in my PC and tried to do the scan/repair in Windows 10. But it won't let me do it because it's "write-protected." I googled and tried the run as administrator command prompt to fix it, but that's not working either. Anyone have any ideas?


----------



## Long Ranger

slasher016 said:


> Ok used to have this issue all the time.. but this time I'm not able to fix it. My dashcam USB is showing the gray X. I took the drive out of the car and put it in my PC and tried to do the scan/repair in Windows 10. But it won't let me do it because it's "write-protected." I googled and tried the run as administrator command prompt to fix it, but that's not working either. Anyone have any ideas?


Did you try just skipping the repair and seeing if you can read (and erase) the drive contents? With Sentry mode, the most common reason now for the gray X is simply that the drive is full.


----------



## M3OC Rules

evannole said:


> These are all problems that I have experienced on prior versions of NOA and am still seeing on 8.5. .


I have similar issues. A lot of these issues are due to reliance on bad map data. They either need to be hyper-vigilant on updating the maps which seems impossible or they need to not rely on it so much. I encounter many speed limit errors on my 20 miles commute. I also have a lane issue from a lane that was changed and the map was never fixed.

I can see them fixing the issues with poorly timed lane changes but the reliance on bad map data seems like a fundamental issue. It doesn't matter if you're "feature complete" if your solution is based on 100% accurate map data which you will never have. Hopefully, they implement some different methods soon here or get real serious about updating that map data.


----------



## Ken Madison

Hello
Just had update 8.5
Seems more power and Security Mode working but lane changing on autopilot remains the same. Am I missing something or was that a USA only feature??


----------



## SimonMatthews

trappist1e said:


> The rain sensing definitely got better, not perfect, but better. And I'm one of those people who were super critical of the terrible rain sensing abilities of this car. I can definitely see the light at the end of the tunnel as they improve this further.


That is great, but I may be able to tell for another 6 months -- until it rains again!


----------



## Sandy

Ken Madison said:


> Hello
> Just had update 8.5
> Seems more power and Security Mode working but lane changing on autopilot remains the same. Am I missing something or was that a USA only feature??


It's there on mine. Autopilot page. Selectable.


----------



## slasher016

Long Ranger said:


> Did you try just skipping the repair and seeing if you can read (and erase) the drive contents? With Sentry mode, the most common reason now for the gray X is simply that the drive is full.


Drive is not full, I can play the videos in there, but I can't write to the drive at all. I can't even just add a folder. I tried to just delete everything and tried to reformat, neither would work.


----------



## Feathermerchant

Is there a switch somewhere on the outside of the drive?


----------



## slasher016

Feathermerchant said:


> Is there a switch somewhere on the outside of the drive?


Nope...checked that too. I'm guessing the thing is corrupt it's just strange that I can play all the stored videos in there including the sentry cam temp files.

EDIT: Yep... from the SanDisk website:



> How do I fix a Write Protect error?
> Write protection errors occur when a flash drive detects a potential fault within itself. The drive will go into write-protected mode to prevent data loss. There is no method to fix this. To verify the issue is related to the flash drive and not your computer we recommend that you try plugging the USB drive into another port on your computer. You should also try the drive on another computer if possible.


----------



## MelindaV

bwilson4web said:


> Hi,
> 
> Barely the second week of SRM3+ ownership, has anyone measured the power increase?
> 
> Should the power increase also affect the maximum range?


I would expect the opposite. Think of it as you would a gasoline car. if it had a power increase, the mpg would go down, but it would be quicker.
and if you have been driving efficiently, the likelihood of experiencing the "peak power increase" likely is rare because I would expect you never floor it to the car's max ability.


----------



## srjinatl

Anyone notice a significant jump in phantom drain along with a lack of the car going to sleep with this update? Since my car updated to this release - I have noticed significant uptick in phantom drain and the car will sleep very little if at all. i made no changes to Teslafi settings and that is the only thing other than the Tesla app that I use. I have also not used sentry mode and I did a reboot of the car after the release was installed.


----------



## foo

There appears to be a new bug related to the display in this release.... screen starts to glitch with black chunks and matrix style text... it just happened to me this morning... see this thread for a video of it; #1


----------



## Ken Voss

srjinatl said:


> Anyone notice a significant jump in phantom drain along with a lack of the car going to sleep with this update? Since my car updated to this release - I have noticed significant uptick in phantom drain and the car will sleep very little if at all. i made no changes to Teslafi settings and that is the only thing other than the Tesla app that I use. I have also not used sentry mode and I did a reboot of the car after the release was installed.


YES... I am seeing 0.5 mile per hour loss when the car is (or should be) fully sleeping, with no apps connected and very comfortable 60 degree temperature in the garage, if this loss were consistent for a 24 hour period it would equal about 6% per day, before the latest update I was seeing less than 2% per day.

In addition to 2019.8.5, the only other change I made was adding a Jeda wireless pad at the same time. I am going to disconnect the pad, USB hub and flash drive just to eliminate any of that as a possibility. I suspect the issue is directly related to 2019.8.5


----------



## Needsdecaf

srjinatl said:


> Anyone notice a significant jump in phantom drain along with a lack of the car going to sleep with this update? Since my car updated to this release - I have noticed significant uptick in phantom drain and the car will sleep very little if at all. i made no changes to Teslafi settings and that is the only thing other than the Tesla app that I use. I have also not used sentry mode and I did a reboot of the car after the release was installed.





Ken Voss said:


> YES... I am seeing 0.5 miles per hour loss when the car is (or should be) fully sleeping in the garage, with no apps connected and very comfortable 60 degree temperature in the garage, if this loss were consistent for a 24 hour period it would equal about 6% per day, before the latest update I was seeing less than 2% per day.
> 
> In addition to 2019.8.5, the only other change I made was adding a Jeda wireless pad at the same time. I am going to disconnect the pad, USB hub and flash drive just to eliminate any of that as a possibility. I suspect the issue is directly related to 2019.8.5


What's your status when this is occuring? Plugged in or unplugged? Connected to WiFi?

My car has always, if not plugged in and on WiFi, struggled to sleep. If it's not on WiFi, it sleeps. If it's plugged in and on WiFi, it sleeps.


----------



## Reliev

@srjinatl yes im noticing this too i only lost 2 miles in ~26 hours


----------



## ltphoto

I have also seen a huge increase in phantom drain with this version. Went from losing a couple of miles a day to over 22 miles per day now. Hopefully will be fixed in the next update soon.


----------



## Ken Voss

Needsdecaf said:


> What's your status when this is occuring? Plugged in or unplugged? Connected to WiFi?
> 
> My car has always, if not plugged in and on WiFi, struggled to sleep. If it's not on WiFi, it sleeps. If it's plugged in and on WiFi, it sleeps.


Not plugged in but on WiFi


----------



## srjinatl

Needsdecaf said:


> What's your status when this is occuring? Plugged in or unplugged? Connected to WiFi?
> 
> My car has always, if not plugged in and on WiFi, struggled to sleep. If it's not on WiFi, it sleeps. If it's plugged in and on WiFi, it sleeps.


This is overnight - when my car would use to sleep - it is now not sleeping. Same conditions as before the update - plugged in and on wifi. I do have scheduled charging set up - again that is no different than before. The only real change has been the sw level. The timing as shown on Teslafi coincides with the install date of this software update.


----------



## Jarettp

Anyone else's car downloading a large file right now? Already on 8.5. Maps orrrrrr???


----------



## aronth5

General 8.5 has been positive and seeing the improvement is great. Here are my observations:

 Wipers have improved to the point where sometimes I don't think about them. A good thing. Would still like a setting since everyone has different opinions on how aggressive wipers should be. Not perfect but going in the right direction.
Display has booted on its' own twice. Unusual at least for my car
NoA sometimes will speed up just as it's going to exit the highway. A little scary sometimes. Definitely not smooth enough for some exits.
Even with my hand creating enough rotational force on the steering wheel lane to avoid nags, changes take too long. Many times by the time it starts to change lanes a car has come up and the lane change is delayed.
Often will still veer to the right in the lane when merging lanes come up on the right from on ramps. Been a problem for over a year.
In general with simple exits NoA works very well but when there are multiple lanes and more complex interchanges NoA still gets confused.
I would really like a setting that would limit any lane changes when approaching an exit. For example never move to the faster lane if I'm "1.5" miles to the exit. Obviously there are times when I make the decision to speed up based on the amount of traffic but until NoA can make similar decision I'd prefer to let the car drive more conservatively and avoid getting caught in the wrong lane.
In general just smooth out speed changes


----------



## srjinatl

srjinatl said:


> This is overnight - when my car would use to sleep - it is now not sleeping. Same conditions as before the update - plugged in and on wifi. I do have scheduled charging set up - again that is no different than before. The only real change has been the sw level. The timing as shown on Teslafi coincides with the install date of this software update.


Looking into this further - yesterday I worked from home so I left the car off charge and found that it continued to lose at a rate over 1 mile per hour - so last night I decided to turn off wifi to see if that would make a difference - it did not unfortunately - car remained in idle mode the entire time. Note - I did not plug the car into the charger overnight - nor was it plugged in during the day either. I guess i would have thought that it would have eventually gone into sleep mode but it never did.

I have an appt with the service center this am for something else but plan to ask them about this - I would rather revert back to 8.3 temporarily as I had planned to go on a trip with the car this weekend. Really don't want to do that if I am stuck with this level of phantom drain as I will then need to chase around where I am going to find a level 2 charger just to recoup my lost daily miles once I get where I am going. Not the way I want to spend my time.


----------



## Needsdecaf

aronth5 said:


> NoA sometimes will speed up just as it's going to exit the highway. A little scary sometimes. Definitely not smooth enough for some exits.


I have the opposite problem. For me, two days in a row, NOA has slowed down to exit ramp speeds while still about 200-300 yards on from the exit. Very dangerous, IMO. The road I travel home has a 75 MPH posted limit and 80 plus is the normal travel speed. Yesterday it had me down under 60 before I was actually on the ramp. Given that it's a 2 lane highway, this leaves very little room for error. Good thing no one was behind me.


----------



## Needsdecaf

srjinatl said:


> Looking into this further - yesterday I worked from home so I left the car off charge and found that it continued to lose at a rate over 1 mile per hour - so last night I decided to turn off wifi to see if that would make a difference - it did not unfortunately - car remained in idle mode the entire time. Note - I did not plug the car into the charger overnight - nor was it plugged in during the day either. I guess i would have thought that it would have eventually gone into sleep mode but it never did.
> 
> I have an appt with the service center this am for something else but plan to ask them about this - I would rather revert back to 8.3 temporarily as I had planned to go on a trip with the car this weekend. Really don't want to do that if I am stuck with this level of phantom drain as I will then need to chase around where I am going to find a level 2 charger just to recoup my lost daily miles once I get where I am going. Not the way I want to spend my time.


Did you turn off WiFi? Or did you forget your wireless network? I've found turning off WiFi has not helped me, the car will turn it back on. But if I forget the network, it'll go to sleep.


----------



## srjinatl

Needsdecaf said:


> Did you turn off WiFi? Or did you forget your wireless network? I've found turning off WiFi has not helped me, the car will turn it back on. But if I forget the network, it'll go to sleep.


I did try just turning wifi off - but you are right - not sure if it was the act of me opening the door or what - but it was immediately reconnected when the screen turned on this am after opening the door - will try forgetting the network tonight to see if that will make any difference. However, I suspect it won't as I notice that the same phantom drain was taking place while I had the car idle at work and again when we were up in Athens GA over the weekend.


----------



## atod

2 days on this build and so far so good. havent had a chance to test NOA stuff. Also, my butt sensor is struggling to identify the power increase. It is not obvious.


----------



## evannole

I initially thought that this version was pretty smooth on EAP, but since that initial assessment I have experienced quite a bit of phantom braking. It generally occurs in one of two cases:

1) When I am in the HOV lane, moving more quickly than traffic in the adjacent lanes, presumably the car sees slower vehicles in the next lane and momentarily thinks it is at risk of hitting them. The lanes are well marked and it should be clear to the system that those cars are not in the space that the car is about to occupy.

2) Shadows across the road on a bright sunny afternoon apparently continue to confuse the system.

I am hoping that these are just early jitters in the first several days of a new software version. It's been a while since I have seen so many instances of this issue in a short time.


----------



## ChiTesla

trappist1e said:


> The rain sensing definitely got better, not perfect, but better. And I'm one of those people who were super critical of the terrible rain sensing abilities of this car. I can definitely see the light at the end of the tunnel as they improve this further.


I drove home yesterday on the expressway in constant rain. The wipers performed perfectly. I almost didn't even notice them. When I exited onto the secondary road, the wipers began wiping at full speed and didn't stop. I had to turn them off. I turned them on a few minutes later and they were not registering the spray from other cars and I had to manually operate the wipers often. Frustrating.


----------



## ChiTesla

Also while driving home in the rain yesterday, NOA automatically turned off due to poor weather conditions and then automatically turned back on a few minutes later. This was interesting.


----------



## ChiTesla

This morning on my way to work, with EAP on while navigating secondary roads, I heard a loud buzz and my screen went blank. The car continued on EAP flawlessly through a difficult construction area as I closely monitored it. The screen reset within 1 minute. This gave me confidence in the EAP system while the screen was rebooting.


----------



## iChris93

ChiTesla said:


> This morning on my way to work, with EAP on while navigating secondary roads, I heard a loud buzz and my screen went blank. The car continued on EAP flawlessly through a difficult construction area as I closely monitored it. The screen reset within 1 minute. This gave me confidence in the EAP system while the screen was rebooting.


Just a note on this. While EAP continues working, NoA stops functioning until the screen is back on.


----------



## tivoboy

Sadly, for me this build is a regression back to many prior builds.. LONG ago. The ping ponging on the highway is back, the car seems to make trying to make many unnecessary adjustments, especially on smooth curves on the highway (280) and without much traffic. 

NOA, lane changes, man it takes a LONG time to commit even without other cars around to the sides or rear. Definitely not an step forward from my usage.


----------



## Mike

NOA insists on coming up to slower traffic, slowing down to match it's speed and then decides it wants to pass. ....when it is no longer clear in the left lane to do so. 

I file a bug report every time I'm being boxed in.


----------



## guidom

foo said:


> There appears to be a new bug related to the display in this release.... screen starts to glitch with black chunks and matrix style text... it just happened to me this morning... see this thread for a video of it; #1


I already have this with only 8.3


----------



## Unplugged

Jarettp said:


> Anyone else's car downloading a large file right now? Already on 8.5. Maps orrrrrr???


Yes, I had about a 5GB download yesterday.


----------



## Niki-and-I

srjinatl said:


> Looking into this further - yesterday I worked from home so I left the car off charge and found that it continued to lose at a rate over 1 mile per hour - so last night I decided to turn off wifi to see if that would make a difference - it did not unfortunately - car remained in idle mode the entire time. Note - I did not plug the car into the charger overnight - nor was it plugged in during the day either. I guess i would have thought that it would have eventually gone into sleep mode but it never did.
> 
> I have an appt with the service center this am for something else but plan to ask them about this - I would rather revert back to 8.3 temporarily as I had planned to go on a trip with the car this weekend. Really don't want to do that if I am stuck with this level of phantom drain as I will then need to chase around where I am going to find a level 2 charger just to recoup my lost daily miles once I get where I am going. Not the way I want to spend my time.


I also found out (in a bad way) that my car is never going to sleep. To cut a long story short, it is in an airport car park while I am abroad and is losing about 20miles per day. I just checked logs and it is because it does not go to sleep (not because of cabin overheat protection as I initially thought). I think I am going to get back and find it totally dead... See my analysis in this other thread


----------



## Unplugged

Niki-and-I said:


> I also found out (in a bad way) that my car is never going to sleep.


According to my TeslaFi analysis, my Model 3 has idled for 95% of the time, and slept less than 5%. And it is slowly getting worse. It used to be sleeping about 6 or 7%, and now it's down to 4%. It used to sleep about 85% to 94% of the time, so this is quite a turnaround for the worse.


----------



## srjinatl

Niki-and-I said:


> I also found out (in a bad way) that my car is never going to sleep. To cut a long story short, it is in an airport car park while I am abroad and is losing about 20miles per day. I just checked logs and it is because it does not go to sleep (not because of cabin overheat protection as I initially thought). I think I am going to get back and find it totally dead... See my analysis in this other thread


Yeah - fortunately where I am going this weekend there are some nearby level 2 chargers that I can get the level back up enough to make it to the first supercharger on the route back - which is only about 40 miles out - but still - 20 miles a day is way more than I was experiencing before this update - the timing may be coincidental - but so far that is the only "change" that I can think of that could be triggering this difference in what I have experienced previously.


----------



## garsh

Mike said:


> NOA insists on coming up to slower traffic, slowing down to match it's speed and then decides it wants to pass.


Change your setting to Mad Max mode. In that mode, it will decide to pass before it gets close enough to require slowing down, and is probably what you want.


----------



## aronth5

Needsdecaf said:


> I have the opposite problem. For me, two days in a row, NOA has slowed down to exit ramp speeds while still about 200-300 yards on from the exit. Very dangerous, IMO. The road I travel home has a 75 MPH posted limit and 80 plus is the normal travel speed. Yesterday it had me down under 60 before I was actually on the ramp. Given that it's a 2 lane highway, this leaves very little room for error. Good thing no one was behind me.


Isn't it amazing how different Model 3's can have different behavior! What I often find is the car in front of me is not exiting but continuing straight in the right hand lane. As soon as my car starts to exit it now sees lots of space ahead of me so it zooms ahead in a jerky motion then slows down just as quickly. I also find sudden acceleration when the car in front of me exits and as soon as that happens my car speeds up. I have several exits on my way to work that are very close together so I need to stay in the right hand lane. These excessive variations in speed didn't happen until recent updates.


----------



## aronth5

garsh said:


> Change your setting to Mad Max mode. In that mode, it will decide to pass before it gets close enough to require slowing down, and is probably what you want.


I've used Mad Max too but then my car wants to move to the faster lane when I have an exit coming up.


----------



## N54tt

srjinatl said:


> Anyone notice a significant jump in phantom drain along with a lack of the car going to sleep with this update? Since my car updated to this release - I have noticed significant uptick in phantom drain and the car will sleep very little if at all. i made no changes to Teslafi settings and that is the only thing other than the Tesla app that I use. I have also not used sentry mode and I did a reboot of the car after the release was installed.


I have this issue since 8.5. I have done several tests today and narrowed it down to WIFI. You can't just turn off wifi in the car. You have to "forget" wifi or just reboot your router. Rebooting is only temporary though...as the next time you drive and reconnect to the wifi it will do it again. I have also notice that I was getting mult "charging Started" notifications since the update...which now that I think about it could be related to the car not sleeping and having a drain.



srjinatl said:


> Looking into this further - yesterday I worked from home so I left the car off charge and found that it continued to lose at a rate over 1 mile per hour - so last night I decided to turn off wifi to see if that would make a difference - it did not unfortunately - car remained in idle mode the entire time. Note - I did not plug the car into the charger overnight - nor was it plugged in during the day either. I guess i would have thought that it would have eventually gone into sleep mode but it never did.
> 
> I have an appt with the service center this am for something else but plan to ask them about this - I would rather revert back to 8.3 temporarily as I had planned to go on a trip with the car this weekend. Really don't want to do that if I am stuck with this level of phantom drain as I will then need to chase around where I am going to find a level 2 charger just to recoup my lost daily miles once I get where I am going. Not the way I want to spend my time.


As mentioned by someone else...you need to "forget" wifi in the settings...to make sure it does not reconnect.

I have sent bug reports and emails. Called Tesla today and was told the only known issue with 8.5 is the buggy screen...we need more people to report it so they can address it.


----------



## N54tt

ltphoto said:


> I have also seen a huge increase in phantom drain with this version. Went from losing a couple of miles a day to over 22 miles per day now. Hopefully will be fixed in the next update soon.


Have been noticing that car is not sleeping when connected to wifi? My increased drain only happens at home when connected to wifi and not plugged in....which makes sense because the car is not sleeping. If your noticing the drain when connected to wifi, see if the car is not sleeping. If it's not sleeping, try "forgetting" the wifi and see if it helps. Oh and report it to Tesla..so they know to address it if enough people report it.


----------



## Nautilus

FWIW, I'm not sure the sleep deprivation and/or phantom drain is a universal problem with 8.5.

I've been on this update since 4-April. The car has spent most of the time in the driveway since then. I've been out of town, and did the update remotely (I miss my car.....). Since the update (from 2019.5.15) the car has been mostly unplugged, but always connected to WiFi. My wife did take it to work one day and then it spent a couple more days at home unplugged, and then she charged it and now its unplugged again, but all the time it's been connected to Wi-Fi.

The last couple days while its been warm, it's woken up from sleep mode for several hours in the afternoon, presumably for the fan to run and cool the cabin (no tint on windows, outside temperature high 60s/low 70s, car parked in the sun, so inside temperature almost 110F). But the car has dutifully been going to sleep again in the late afternoon.

Also, I've also only lost a 3% battery power over several days since the car was charged (85% down to 82%), but I'm not sure exactly when my wife or son unplugged the car.


----------



## kuzzy

A lot of comments about phantom drain increases with the recent software updates. I have seen comments that the Tesla stats app may be the culprit. I do not know as I do not use it or Teslafi. I don’t have phantom drain issues either on 8.5. Just something you might want to investigate if you are running that app. The comment I saw said they shut down the app and changed Tesla password and the problem went away.


----------



## Nautilus

I should have mentioned that I do use TeslaFi, but that is the only 3rd party app I use. That's how I know whether my car's been awake or sleeping and it's internal temperature while I've been away.


----------



## Niki-and-I

N54tt said:


> I have sent bug reports and emails. Called Tesla today and was told the only known issue with 8.5 is the buggy screen...we need more people to report it so they can address it.


I did not send a bug report but I called Telsa main line and said this problem started with 8.5. However they told me that a drain of 3-20miles/day is to be considered normal!!!


----------



## N54tt

kuzzy said:


> A lot of comments about phantom drain increases with the recent software updates. I have seen comments that the Tesla stats app may be the culprit. I do not know as I do not use it or Teslafi. I don't have phantom drain issues either on 8.5. Just something you might want to investigate if you are running that app. The comment I saw said they shut down the app and changed Tesla password and the problem went away.


There may be more than one issue going on. I believe that might have been an issue running Teslafi and stats concurrently. I have stats and remote s, no Teslafi. Changing my password was one of the things I tried to troubleshoot. But didn't have an impact. Only thing for me that worked was disconnecting my car from WiFi. I've also noticed people have had this issue before 8.5 and some don't have it at all on 8.5. But in my case 100% it started happening immediately after my 8.5 update....just to throw that data point out there.


----------



## Needsdecaf

aronth5 said:


> _Isn't amazing how different Model 3 have opposite behaviors_
> 
> Isn't it amazing how different Model 3's can have different behavior! What I often find is the car in front of me is not exiting but continuing straight in the right hand lane. As soon as my car starts to exit it now sees lots of space ahead of me so it zooms ahead in a jerky motion then slows down just as quickly. I also find sudden acceleration when the car in front of me exits and as soon as that happens my car speeds up. I have several exits on my way to work that are very close together so I need to stay in the right hand lane. These excessive variations in speed didn't happen until recent updates.


Not only how different Model 3's have opposite behaviors, but how the same Model 3 on the same software will behave differently day to day..


----------



## Needsdecaf

N54tt said:


> Have been noticing that car is not sleeping when connected to wifi? My increased drain only happens at home when connected to wifi and not plugged in....which makes sense because the car is not sleeping. If your noticing the drain when connected to wifi, see if the car is not sleeping. If it's not sleeping, try "forgetting" the wifi and see if it helps. Oh and report it to Tesla..so they know to address it if enough people report it.


I've had this issue since I got my car, on whatever that was...48.?? Unplugged / Wifi - no sleep. Plugged / Done charging / Wifi - sleep. Unplugged / No Wifi - sleep.

Very consistent for me. Which is reassuring as I know how to manage it.


----------



## N54tt

Needsdecaf said:


> I've had this issue since I got my car, on whatever that was...48.?? Unplugged / Wifi - no sleep. Plugged / Done charging / Wifi - sleep. Unplugged / No Wifi - sleep.
> 
> Very consistent for me. Which is reassuring as I know how to manage it.


That's not reassuring for me that it'll get resolved than lol. How have you been managing it? Keeping WiFi off? What about map updates? My understanding is that firmware updates will happen over lte, but not map updates.

My concern over the life of the car is extra wear on whatever pump is running and decreasing life of the battery (increased charge cycles vs if didn't have such high drain). Pump could be running an additional multiple hrs/day.


----------



## Needsdecaf

N54tt said:


> That's not reassuring for me that it'll get resolved than lol. How have you been managing it? Keeping WiFi off? What about map updates? My understanding is that firmware updates will happen over lte, but not map updates.
> 
> My concern over the life of the car is extra wear on whatever pump is running and decreasing life of the battery (increased charge cycles vs if didn't have such high drain). Pump could be running an additional multiple hrs/day.


The only time WiFi connects is at home. When it's at home it's almost always plugged in. If I don't plug it in, it's because I'm not worried about the phantom drain of a few miles, because I'm not really using it for a while (for instance, I charge it Friday night when I get home, and usually don't charge it until Sunday night prior to going to work, because my weekend trips are short enough, or done in another of our cars).

When the car is not connected to WiFi (anywhere besides the house), it sleeps fine.

Also, I have, in periods where software updates seem to have slowed, completely forgotten the WiFi network. Car is still connected to LTE for anything vital, and monitoring the Forums / Facebook group tells me when to turn it back on when updates are rolling out.


----------



## N54tt

On top of the vampire drain issues, I just got the screen glitch today (which apparently Tesla says is a known issue). Got in the car and it looked like laser light show with lines shooting from the top left corner....the whole screen started glitching and then shut off and reboot itself. Starting to not like 8.5 lol. Especially since auto lane change has a mind of its own....will initiate a change then dart back into the lane...even though there’s no car in that next lane.


----------



## ChiTesla

Needsdecaf said:


> I've had this issue since I got my car, on whatever that was...48.?? Unplugged / Wifi - no sleep. Plugged / Done charging / Wifi - sleep. Unplugged / No Wifi - sleep.
> 
> Very consistent for me. Which is reassuring as I know how to manage it.


I just checked TeslaFi. My car never sleeps (since 3/18 when I subscribed to TeslaFi) when plugged in at home and connected to WiFi. At work I do not plug in and my car sleeps during the day with WiFi. Go Figure.


----------



## SalisburySam

Since April 5 when my Model 3 updated from 5.15 to 8.5 sleep has been normal and consistent with what it was before the update, according to the records in TeslaFi. In addition to the sleeping at home, the vehicle sleeps when parked for awhile at other locations. At least for me, vehicle sleep has not been an issue at all. WiFi is continuously enabled (I do re-boot my router roughly weekly and it re-boots itself when it updates its own firmware automatically) and I’ve used TeslaFi continuously since acquiring the car.

For me, the only new “feature” I’ve noticed is the screen turning black when I shift into reverse. Never had that before on any release since 2018.24.8 when I got the car. It lasts about 3-4 seconds, then the image appears correctly. Each time that happens I submit a verbal bug report.

Under the heading of recurring “features,” I find TACC slightly less flamboyant than it was on 15.5 but a long way from how good/stable it was on 50.6. It constantly changes speed a mile or two per hour on an Interstate with low- to moderate traffic getting closer to and farther away from the vehicle in front of me. Presumably this is to maintain the setting of “3” that I have for distance (I think that represents about a second-and-a-half in distance). At first I thought the vehicle ahead was not driving at a constant speed, but I don’t think that was the case. I observed the same TACC behavior behind every car I was following.

In other news of recurring annoyances, on two drives of about 60 miles one way I got the dreaded unintended hard braking. Each of the 5 times this has occurred on 8.5, I was on an Interstate with light traffic, nothing threatening me, nothing close around me, no large overpasses, no large shaded areas, no speed limit changes, no tunnel entrances, no birds flying across the car in front of the radar, nothing I could see that would warrant braking at all, let alone hard braking. Another set of opportunities to submit bug reports each time.

The regression, or at least lack of improvement, in TACC has gone from frightening the first few times on previous firmware, to very annoying on 8.5 so much so I avoid using TACC for most trips. This also means no AP, and no NoAP both of which I like using. I hope TACC gets better quickly but I’m concerned this behavior is intentional, addressing some edge case that will not go away otherwise. I’ve also learned to NOT use TACC with my wife in the car; her reaction to the last unintended braking event was to immediately demand we sell the vehicle. I have to admit the bloom is off the rose for me as well with the braking behavior. I’ve gotten to where I wish my EAP/FSD combo included a simple, maintain-a-set-speed cruise control option.


----------



## Long Ranger

garsh said:


> Change your setting to Mad Max mode. In that mode, it will decide to pass before it gets close enough to require slowing down, and is probably what you want.


I've gone the opposite direction and set it to Mild, at least when using NOA w/o confirmation. I found NOA w/o confirmation pretty unusable just on the Average setting with the large number of really poor lane changes I had to reject. Now I just initiate most speed based lane changes myself using the turn signal. I still have to reject enough route based lane changes to keep myself busy.


----------



## Zimmra

FWIW I use TeslaFi and Stats App and have had no issues sleeping (but I did have to modify some of the sleep settings on TeslaFi)


----------



## Mike

garsh said:


> Change your setting to Mad Max mode. In that mode, it will decide to pass before it gets close enough to require slowing down, and is probably what you want.


My setting is in Mad Max mode.

I made the change to Mad Max mode about five minutes into my first test drive on the freeway with .8.5 last week.

I'm initiating nine out of ten passes because NOA is just happy to stay in the right lane and be boxed in.

I've also noticed a 50/50 chance of having a manually induced lane change get aborted unless I hold the turn signal stalk until the lane change is complete.


----------



## Mike

N54tt said:


> On top of the vampire drain issues, I just got the screen glitch today (which apparently Tesla says is a known issue). Got in the car and it looked like laser light show with lines shooting from the top left corner....the whole screen started glitching and then shut off and reboot itself. Starting to not like 8.5 lol. Especially since auto lane change has a mind of its own....will initiate a change then dart back into the lane...even though there's no car in that next lane.


Do you initiate the lane change or does NOA initiate the lane change?

I find if I initiate the lane change, it's easier on my nerves to just keep applying (lane change) pressure on the turn signal stalk until I'm in the desired new lane.


----------



## NEO

Drove 120 freeway miles today and I had to abandon AP due to several instances of phantom braking. This version is a serious step back for AP. Hopefully it will be fixed soon. I also had the computer reboot during the drive which was a little unnerving but caused no real problems.


----------



## Gordon87

I received the update from 8.3 to 8.5 a few days ago. My Navigation settings screen has two items grayed out - Require Lane Change Confirmation and Lane Change Notification. Not sure what to do. Any advice?


----------



## Rick Steinwand

Try a reboot to see if it fixes it?


----------



## r-e-l

got the update a week ago while away. finally got back home and drove the car early morning hours (6:00 am). It was a short drive in the city so no time to experience NOA however, I use AutoSteer all the time and I did so this morning and man … am I am glad it was 6:00 am sat morning when no other cars on the road?
normal drive, in places I droves tens of times before without issue the car suddently ejects itself from the lane and requires immediate intervention, including warning sounds coming from the system.
No idea if this is a calibration issue and it will get better or what but for the time being …. I lost complete trust in the system.

as for the favorite topic of wipers ,,,, I am afraid it went bad (used to be OK for me). The wipers were turned on the second I pulled into my garage and continued to work even as I put the car in parking mode.

Finally, seeing some issues with the sound system. some might say its a feature but I think its a bug and definitely not my ideal .... the car is having a problem automatically restating the sound system , its "loading" or simply paused. It used to be that it will continue from where I left it.

net - for someone who doesnt drive on highways, this update, so far is a bust.

btw: the redlight warnning - anyone saw them? is it a setting? never seen that in action.


----------



## scottf200

3/4!


----------



## tivoboy

Gordon87 said:


> I received the update from 8.3 to 8.5 a few days ago. My Navigation settings screen has two items grayed out - Require Lane Change Confirmation and Lane Change Notification. Not sure what to do. Any advice?
> 
> View attachment 24782


I think you have to enable the NOA somewhere else first, then these things will be selectable. Can't remember where I changed the setting. Maybe AP


----------



## Leggers

> I have to admit the bloom is off the rose for me as well with the braking behavior. I've gotten to where I wish my EAP/FSD combo included a simple, maintain-a-set-speed cruise control option.


I agree I wish there was a version that would just use the Radar only with a set distance as it seams that TACC uses the camera system, and that often gets fooled. I hope to be more convinced that FSD will improve on this maybe they will show something at the demo that will be compelling. But at the moment I just don't see how they are going to get there.


----------



## Bokonon

Gordon87 said:


> I received the update from 8.3 to 8.5 a few days ago. My Navigation settings screen has two items grayed out - Require Lane Change Confirmation and Lane Change Notification. Not sure what to do. Any advice?
> 
> View attachment 24782


Were you in Park at the time you tried to change those settings? Most Autopilot settings (including NoA settings) can only be changed while the car is in Park.


----------



## Gordon87

tivoboy said:


> I think you have to enable the NOA somewhere else first, then these things will be selectable. Can't remember where I changed the setting. Maybe AP


Thanks. I just checked. I needed to turn OFF Navigate on Autopilot and then tun it back on. That allowed me to select No or Yes for Require Lane Change Confirmation. When I selected No, it then allowed me to select which Lane Change Notification I wanted. I selected Both chime and vibrate. All good now. Now, I just need to get comfortable with the car changing lanes on its own with the roadways around here.


----------



## N54tt

Adding on to my issues since 8.5 Maybe coincidence like my other issues? But also immediately after update...my total range capacity has taken a 4-5mile hit. The dip below the dotted line is right after the update.


----------



## MelindaV

My car has developed issues with my garage since 8.2, but nearly consistently on 8.5. 

When in my garage and putting it in reverse to leave, I get an error that 'Blindspot Detection is Reduced' (has also happened a couple times when driving in the last month on 8.x). Once out of my garage, it clears. Parking in other places do not have the error when first starting out.
And my garage messes with the auto-wipers. They come on nearly every time I pull into the garage (regardless if it was raining outside or not) and when starting the car in the garage.


----------



## foo

Leggers said:


> I agree I wish there was a version that would just use the Radar only with a set distance as it seams that TACC uses the camera system, and that often gets fooled. I hope to be more convinced that FSD will improve on this maybe they will show something at the demo that will be compelling. But at the moment I just don't see how they are going to get there.


Yep.... need "Cruise Control Classic"! Just maintain the set speed and let me worry about traffic, etc.


----------



## Kizzy

MelindaV said:


> My car has developed issues with my garage since 8.2, but nearly consistently on 8.5.
> 
> When in my garage and putting it in reverse to leave, I get an error that 'Blindspot Detection is Reduced' (has also happened a couple times when driving in the last month on 8.x). Once out of my garage, it clears. Parking in other places do not have the error when first starting out.
> And my garage messes with the auto-wipers. They come on nearly every time I pull into the garage (regardless if it was raining outside or not) and when starting the car in the garage.


I have that BSD limited issue too. I wonder if it's just too dark for those cameras in my driveway.


----------



## Ze1000

Kizzy said:


> I have that BSD limited issue too. I wonder if it's just too dark for those cameras in my driveway.


Well, in the garage this is not considered an issue, right? I might believe that it is exactly how it should behave. Definitely you are not overtaking or changing lanes inside of your garage.


----------



## MelindaV

Ze1000 said:


> Well, in the garage this is not considered an issue, right?


I'd say it is an issue if it is throwing an error when putting it in gear.


----------



## Ze1000

MelindaV said:


> I'd say it is an issue if it is throwing an error when putting it in gear.


It is a warning, because it is actually happening (blindspot is limited inside of the garage) on a condition that is not to be useful anyway.
It is almost like the warning of the backseat seat belt unbuckled when you have some heavy backpack on the backseat. 
Maybe you don't want to be warned during that time, but then it is a feature request, not really an issue. On the backseat warning, that feature was implemented about a year ago ...


----------



## littlD

MelindaV said:


> And my garage messes with the auto-wipers. They come on nearly every time I pull into the garage (regardless if it was raining outside or not) and when starting the car in the garage.


I've had this since day one (May 26, 2018).

I hope the new neural network will finally address it.


----------



## srjinatl

N54tt said:


> There may be more than one issue going on. I believe that might have been an issue running Teslafi and stats concurrently. I have stats and remote s, no Teslafi. Changing my password was one of the things I tried to troubleshoot. But didn't have an impact. Only thing for me that worked was disconnecting my car from WiFi. I've also noticed people have had this issue before 8.5 and some don't have it at all on 8.5. But in my case 100% it started happening immediately after my 8.5 update....just to throw that data point out there.


I am also running just Teslafi - and was one of the people reporting more than the usual phantom drain and the fact that the car would not sleep for several days after I updated to 8.5. However that behavior has changed - as of last weekend - we went out of town and while the car did not always go to sleep - there were times when it was in idle mode for many hours at a time - the phantom drain slowed to what I would consider a much more normal rate - more like just a few miles or so over a 24 hour period. Since returning home the car has been sleeping more normally - both at work and at home. I have not turned off wifi - that remains on. The only setting change that I made was to turn off the cabin overheat protection completely - I found that it had been set to the "fan only" mode - which I think I had set it to that when I got the car back in November - so pretty sure it had been that way for a while - and so I am not sure that changing it to totally off had anything really to do with the behavior change - probably more of a coincidence than anything else. Not sure I can pin the behavior change on anything more specific than the timing coincidence of updating to 8.5. Perhaps there was more activity going on in the background - perhaps maps updates - after the update to 8.5 - but for whatever reason it has returned to a more normal sleep pattern. I will keep an eye on it over the next week or so and will report back if that changes at all. Wish I could pin the behavior change on something more specific.


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## Emerald AP

Anyone else have the "cruise not available" error message on 2019.8.5 (which fully disables not only EAP but basic cruise, the car also sees NO vehicles around it suggesting that the forward radar is also blind)? I've had intermittent cases of not being able to activate cruise while on the same trip. Yesterday I faced issues on both AM and PM trips and today everything was normal in the AM but there was one instance where I couldn't activate cruise, but it worked at all other times in the PM. 

I'm trying to isolate if it's firmware related on one of my sensors has possibly come loose after driving into to a pothole without my realizing it. 

Wiping all cameras clean didn't help. I wonder if this sounds like something I'd need to call in a service appt? Any idea how much such service calls cost esp. if they come to you?


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## Francois Gaucher

Emerald AP said:


> Anyone else have the "cruise not available" error message on 2019.8.5 (which fully disables not only EAP but basic cruise, the car also sees NO vehicles around it suggesting that the forward radar is also blind)? I've had intermittent cases of not being able to activate cruise while on the same trip. Yesterday I faced issues on both AM and PM trips and today everything was normal in the AM but there was one instance where I couldn't activate cruise, but it worked at all other times in the PM.
> 
> I'm trying to isolate if it's firmware related on one of my sensors has possibly come loose after driving into to a pothole without my realizing it.
> 
> Wiping all cameras clean didn't help. I wonder if this sounds like something I'd need to call in a service appt? Any idea how much such service calls cost esp. if they come to you?


Yes I also got that message a few times.


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## bwilson4web

I've also gotten the message. Today it was on a road with a solid yellow line on the left and a curb on the right. It actually happened twice but by steering closer to the curb, it worked perfectly. Then I activated auto steering. 

Next time it happens, I'll preserve the dash cam recordings and document the incident(s). I'll also try to replicate since it happened enroute to the dog park.

Bob Wilson


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## Lgkahn

Anybody have the issue with the map zoomed too far in while driving with this version. Reboot does not fix it.


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## enowu

I’m a bit concerned that I haven’t received 8.5 yet. Been checking TeslaFi, and my car every day since it started rolling out. Usually I receive an update when the install base reaches about 60% but this time, I seem to be in the last 4% to be on 8.3 still waiting. 

I wonder if I had to do with my occasional and intensional behavior to delay a confirmation when NOA requests a lane change.


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## evannole

enowu said:


> I'm a bit concerned that I haven't received 8.5 yet. Been checking TeslaFi, and my car every day since it started rolling out. Usually I receive an update when the install base reaches about 60% but this time, I seem to be in the last 4% to be on 8.3 still waiting.
> 
> I wonder if I had to do with my occasional and intensional behavior to delay a confirmation when NOA requests a lane change.


Don't sweat it. 8.5 has been pretty buggy for a lot of people, including me. And for what it's worth, I delay confirmation of lane changes on NOA all the time, not that it does any good; the system suggests them again within two seconds of my pressing the delay button. They need an "ignore" button instead.


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## Lgkahn

my take on 8.5 bugs/things that need fixing:

1. screen was glitchy and blinking. fast.. reboot fixed it.
2. still unwelcome braking.. when going around a sharp curve and someone coming towards me in other lane.
Not all the time but occasionally
3. map when not in navigate mode zooms in too close and cannot be zoomed out.
4. passenger and rear seat heaters turn off within a couple of minutes or starting.. If you turn them back on a second time they seem to stay on.
5. still have to accelerate many times ie when someone merging into the hwy as it tries to stop to let them in instead of accelerating to get out of the way.
6. cannot turn dog mode and sentry on together. But you can leave heat/cool on outside of dog mode and also turn on sentry mode (Not sure why the other restriction).


on good side:

1. sensing tpms/tire changes now works really well... I just put my summer tires on .. strock 19" rims with
super sport 4s.. (still have the stock continental procontact with 100 miles if anyone interested), it picked up
and prompted me with the tire change dialog within 3 minutes of driving.. Last time took 3-4 days and many resets.

2. it now at least on some school zones doesn't slow down after school hours.. others it still does even late at night. Havent figured out the pattern yet.


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## enowu

evannole said:


> Don't sweat it. 8.5 has been pretty buggy for a lot of people, including me. And for what it's worth, I delay confirmation of lane changes on NOA all the time, not that it does any good; the system suggests them again within two seconds of my pressing the delay button. They need an "ignore" button instead.


Cool. Yeh, on one hand using NOA is amazing, but if it's that buggy, good to wait I guess. Sometimes it takes too long to execute the change on confirmation, which leads to all the other drivers on the road being like WTF? - which can cause some road rage (I've had minor incidents), or suspicion from a cop that a driver may be drunk, when it's actually the car's timid behavior.

"What see's to be the problem officer?"
"You were swerving between lanes, have you been drinking."
"Not at all officer, my car was trying to change lanes by itself..."

Imagine all the responses to that scenario... haha.


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## dburkland

Has anybody had Navigate on Autopilot attempt to take a clover leaf before? Tonight my P3D+ (running 2019.8.5) said “Attempting maneuver” and properly navigated from one freeway to the next via a clover leaf. It was pretty cool to say the least!


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## Kizzy

evannole said:


> […]And for what it's worth, I delay confirmation of lane changes on NOA all the time, not that it does any good; the system suggests them again within two seconds of my pressing the delay button. They need an "ignore" button instead.


Don't they have (or used to have) an ignore button for navigational lane changes? Hitting "ignore" was still just a delay.


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## Rick Steinwand

I don't take road trips via Interstate very often, and my last one was last fall. So decided to compare 8.5 to a much older version.

The swerve to the right with an on ramp (where the distance between lines gets wider) is smoother, but still annoying has hell, and don't like when it happens and a vehicle is near me on the left, since it seems to over compensate and the driver to my left things I may be drunk when it swerves toward him.

Had a few panic stops from the right lane with the right white line starts (the "V") for an off-ramp.

Automatic lane changes was super cool (first I've done that), but had 3 notices it wanted the left lane and no vehicles on either side or front/back for miles. I cancelled the first two, then let it change to the left lane, but after climbing a short hill, it went back to the right. Later for the return trip it didn't work at all and I had to signal for lane changes.

Just about came to a complete stop when a car on the on-ramp (and us in the right lane) and the on-ramp vehicle came to a near stop. Should have let AP do it all, but came to a stop and let the poor guy go ahead.

Of course black backup screens are not resolved and the worst one happened when trying to back into a supercharger and ended up using just the mirrors until I was nearly in place, then got to enjoy that lovely backup camera for the last foot.


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## PalmtreesCalling

dburkland said:


> Has anybody had Navigate on Autopilot attempt to take a clover leaf before? Tonight my P3D+ (running 2019.8.5) said "Attempting maneuver" and properly navigated from one freeway to the next via a clover leaf. It was pretty cool to say the least!


It seems like NoA doesn't like it when the circle is too tight. I've noticed the stearing being a little choppy. I wonder if it's a function of the processor being pretty highly tasked with the Rev2 hardware. I'd really love to get a chance to drive a model 3 with the Rev3 hardware to see if that is in fact the issue.


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## evannole

So much phantom braking on this version. I had 8 instances of it on my 25-mile highway drive home tonight. They usually seem to be triggered by shadows on the road or cars in adjacent lanes that are close to the lines but still well within their lanes.

I can't wait to move on from this software version. Usually I wait for a week or so before going ahead with an upgrade to a new one, but I will immediately accept whichever one is offered to me next.


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## Carotene

Looking forward to getting off this build as well. Yesterday there was an odd audio bug that caused a ping ponging tick,tick,tick... on just the rear speakers. Alternating left / right. Each tick sounded like a rain drop on a tent. Mute would silence it, but the ticks didn't scale with volume. Two thumb salute didn't clear it. Parking overnight did.


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## MelindaV

why you should pay full attention when using AP:

had a first yesterday, while using TACC/Autosteer in stopped traffic, I had been following a truck for a couple miles between 0-20mph. At one stop in traffic, after sitting 10ft behind the truck for 30 seconds +/- without moving, the truck disappeared from the display and AP started to roll forward toward the still stationary truck. Stepped on the brake and re-engaged AP once traffic was moving again.


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## boppo

evannole said:


> So much phantom braking on this version. I had 8 instances of it on my 25-mile highway drive home tonight. They usually seem to be triggered by shadows on the road or cars in adjacent lanes that are close to the lines but still well within their lanes.
> 
> I can't wait to move on from this software version. Usually I wait for a week or so before going ahead with an upgrade to a new one, but I will immediately accept whichever one is offered to me next.


What I have been getting is going down the interstate at 65 and it drops to 50 quick and back to 65 and the signs say 65. Is this the software or is there a setting I can change?
Thanks


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## Bokonon

MelindaV said:


> I had been following a truck for a couple miles between 0-20mph. At one stop in traffic, after sitting 10ft behind the truck for 30 seconds +/- without moving, the truck disappeared from the display and AP started to roll forward toward the still stationary truck.


Huh. What kind of truck... Pickup? Semi? Delivery? If a pickup, was it jacked up higher off the ground than usual?


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## Mike

boppo said:


> What I have been getting is going down the interstate at 65 and it drops to 50 quick and back to 65 and the signs say 65. Is this the software or is there a setting I can change?
> Thanks


Best guess it is the software.

With all the talk about autonomous driving the past few days (future not being geo-fenced or requiring highly detailed maps), the current iteration does depend on map data for speeds and has been known to burp when passing over/under another road that has a slower data based speed limit......


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## MJJ

boppo said:


> What I have been getting is going down the interstate at 65 and it drops to 50 quick and back to 65 and the signs say 65. Is this the software or is there a setting I can change?
> Thanks


I have had this since day 1 at the same spot on the freeway. The response does vary a bit by version, and it's getting better, but I feel like the glitches all point to a map error. The main symptom now is that AP *must* change lanes "to follow route" but it's a straight stretch of road and we're nowhere near our next interchange.


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## MelindaV

Bokonon said:


> Huh. What kind of truck... Pickup? Semi? Delivery? If a pickup, was it jacked up higher off the ground than usual?


It was a semi, but with a solid metal panel across the back at bumper height, so should not have been an issue for either camera, radar or sonar


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## splatseacex

I have 8.5 and backup camera black screen of death is back (it had stopped happening earlier). I also have the Autopilot issue when highway on ramp is merging. Not to mention the rare streaming errors and the not so good Auto wiper mode


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## undergrove

boppo said:


> What I have been getting is going down the interstate at 65 and it drops to 50 quick and back to 65 and the signs say 65. Is this the software or is there a setting I can change?
> Thanks


This has been happening to me for some time at a particular place on the I-5 where there is a lot of construction. At first I thought it was reacting to confusion about the construction--changes in lane lines, barriers, etc. But it continued after things returned more or less to normal. Finally I noticed that at that point the tesla speed limit indicator drops to 45 for a brief few seconds and then goes back up to 65--which is the posted limit.

Somehow all the construction changes, which have been going on for months, ended up with a false speed limit at that particular point in the maps on board.

When this happens to you, check the speed limit indicator to see if it changes when you get the speed drop.


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## boppo

Mike said:


> Best guess it is the software.
> 
> With all the talk about autonomous driving the past few days (future not being geo-fenced or requiring highly detailed maps), the current iteration does depend on map data for speeds and has been known to burp when passing over/under another road that has a slower data based speed limit......


Thanks Mike


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## boppo

undergrove said:


> This has been happening to me for some time at a particular place on the I-5 where there is a lot of construction. At first I thought it was reacting to confusion about the construction--changes in lane lines, barriers, etc. But it continued after things returned more or less to normal. Finally I noticed that at that point the tesla speed limit indicator drops to 45 for a brief few seconds and then goes back up to 65--which is the posted limit.
> 
> Somehow all the construction changes, which have been going on for months, ended up with a false speed limit at that particular point in the maps on board.
> 
> When this happens to you, check the speed limit indicator to see if it changes when you get the speed drop.


Thanks undergrove


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## StromTrooperM3

RichEV said:


> There is no record of the question online that I can see. I have gotten zero response.


I've sent half a dozen questions and issues since taking delivery, even with the check box 'request manager escalation'... I'm used to the crickets by now. Tesla has shown me how great a product can be delivered and yet F- customer relations and support


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## StromTrooperM3

tencate said:


> Ummm, I just drove to Houston and back with NoA and I'm at .7.61... yeah, sorry, different thread but still a .7 release with everything working
> 
> edit: automatic NoA


I'm on 8.5 and auto NoA is available for me. Drives like it's drunk but it's available to activate

Edit. I purchased EAP in dec and then added FSD during the sale a few weeks ago if that makes any difference

Edit again. In the event of common overmoderation this was intended in the .9 thread in reply to someone saying .9 release implemented no condom confirm lane change. Why this was moved is beyond me


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## srjinatl

Carotene said:


> Looking forward to getting off this build as well. Yesterday there was an odd audio bug that caused a ping ponging tick,tick,tick... on just the rear speakers. Alternating left / right. Each tick sounded like a rain drop on a tent. Mute would silence it, but the ticks didn't scale with volume. Two thumb salute didn't clear it. Parking overnight did.


Yes - I had the same issue a couple of days ago - triggered I think by an incoming phone call that I answered but the other end abruptly hung up - after that my sound was messed up exactly as you describe. I tried reboot with / without break pedal. I also tried shutting off the car for a few minutes. As you found it was fixed overnight - I am guessing by the car going to sleep - but that's purely speculation on my part.


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## Kizzy

My screen spontaneously rebooted twice today. Previous firmwares have been pretty solid for me—this is the first one that has been pretty annoying. Over the last week or so, I’ve experienced the screen glitches prior to a reboot (forced or spontaneous).

I use dashcam and stream podcasts via Bluetooth with standard maps. Is my MCU overtaxed on this version? What are your thoughts?


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## Nautilus

Finally got home Friday after 5 weeks away. I had updated my car to 8.5 remotely back on April 4, but this weekend was the first time I've been able to drive it with 8.5 in place. I've had two phantom breaking episodes while going under underpasses (the type where the road dips to allow the road going over on the bridge to remain level). This has been a recurring problem on several previous firmware versions as well on this particular stretch of road. Otherwise, the car is operating fine. Backup screen works as designed, sound system fine, no other issues (yet).


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## pdp1

It's been almost a month now since I got the 8.5 update. During the first 3 weeks I noticed 1 or 2 times where the screen rebooted by itself while I was driving. It was pretty concerning but since I read it was happening to others as well, I'm waiting it out and hoping it will be fixed by the next release. HOWEVER, just this last week, it rebooted on its own while I was driving at least 3, maybe 4 times. Has anyone else experienced it so frequently?

Also, add another instance of increased phantom braking. It seems my car is a lot more cautious of other nearby vehicles and will suddenly brake even if the other vehicle is several car lengths ahead of my car in the lane next to it. I get that it should be cautious, but the amount of braking applied vs how close the other vehicle is seems a bit over cautious. If it more gradually slowed down, I don't think I'd have as much of an issue with it.


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## Mesprit87

Since 8.4 and now 8.5, it seems the front louvers cycling is back. Never heard it before on my car, just read about it a long time ago on this forum.


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## Needsdecaf

turnem said:


> I've only had the one small quirk that I mentioned above and it was easily resolved. Everything else appears to be working well for me on this build. The biggest improvement I've noticed is that automatic lane changes (when on Autosteer, not NOA) are MUCH quicker and efficient than the prior version.
> 
> I'm still seeing the same horrific lag when resuming from a stop though. The acceleration is far too slow leaving me 5-6 car lengths behind the car in front of me so I almost always end up jamming my foot on the gas to get caught up. I had a really frustrated driver behind me this morning as I was trying to be patient and let the car do its thing. I really hope they address this in future releases.


I have this....sometimes. Still on 8.5. It's very inconsistent.


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## turnem

Needsdecaf said:


> I have this....sometimes. Still on 8.5. It's very inconsistent.


Good to know. It's easy enough to fix I suppose. Can you just park and toggle Autosteer off and then back on? Or do you have to drive between toggling it off and toggling it back on like I did?


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