# Keyless Entry with smartphones



## Juergen

After reading the keycard manual I have a bad feeling. The range is about 9m for the communication between car and phone. That’s a lot! Unfortunately there also devices on the market called Bluetooth Repeater. You can expand the range vom 10m class 2 to 100m class 1. If receive the “bad guy” the bluetooth signal from my phone, he can open the car and drive away. This is happened some BMW owners with there’s cars to.
Have Tesla one build in technic behind to prevent this? I think it’s safer to open and close the car by app or keycard.

Juergen


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## SoFlaModel3

Juergen said:


> After reading the keycard manual I have a bad feeling. The range is about 9m for the communication between car and phone. That's a lot! Unfortunately there also devices on the market called Bluetooth Repeater. You can expand the range vom 10m class 2 to 100m class 1. If receive the "bad guy" the bluetooth signal from my phone, he can open the car and drive away. This is happened some BMW owners with there's cars to.
> Have Tesla one build in technic behind to prevent this? I think it's safer to open and close the car by app or keycard.
> 
> Juergen


Converting to feet for us ignorant Americans that is 29' 6".

I can't imagine the car unlocking from that distance. Tesla must have a way to limit this...

EDIT: after reading through the key manual some more I take back my earlier note. It is quite possible the phone being within range will be an issue. For that reason, the phone is not the "only key". If your car is kept outside and your phone is within range (without interference) that _may_ be an issue. We'll have to see what happens in the real world. For instance if you open the app and lock the doors but the phone never leaves the bluetooth field do the doors stay locked? I would think so...


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## green1

And one thing I'm worried about is reconnection. Right now, the way Bluetooth works (on my Android phone, at least), if I walk far away from my Bluetooth connected headphone, and I loose connection, when I come back within range, it doesn't automatically reconnect. I have to manually reconnect. Would the M3 work like this? I know Wi-Fi always reconnect when you come back within range, but Bluetooth doesn't. Unless if there's a new Bluetooth version I'm unaware of


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## SoFlaModel3

green1 said:


> And one thing I'm worried about is reconnection. Right now, the way Bluetooth works (on my Android phone, at least), if I walk far away from my Bluetooth connected headphone, and I loose connection, when I come back within range, it doesn't automatically reconnect. I have to manually reconnect. Would the M3 work like this? I know Wi-Fi always reconnect when you come back within range, but Bluetooth doesn't. Unless if there's a new Bluetooth version I'm unaware of


I think that's just your phone/headphones. Probably that headphones went into a power save mode when there was no active connection for "x" time.

The car will be actively searching for your phone.


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## Kizzy

Juergen said:


> After reading the keycard manual I have a bad feeling. The range is about 9m for the communication between car and phone. That's a lot! Unfortunately there also devices on the market called Bluetooth Repeater. You can expand the range vom 10m class 2 to 100m class 1. If receive the "bad guy" the bluetooth signal from my phone, he can open the car and drive away. This is happened some BMW owners with there's cars to.
> Have Tesla one build in technic behind to prevent this? I think it's safer to open and close the car by app or keycard.
> 
> Juergen


Tesla did provide a solution for that. You can disable the passive entry (auto unlock/lock) when your phone transitions between being in range. Then, you have to manually lock or unlock the car through the app (or key fob with S and X).


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## Juergen

Thanks! I ask for a technical solution. The waves need about 100ns for a two way transmission on 50ft. They can measure the time what the signal need like a ping on the computer. Is it outside the window was expected, the Tesla disconnect and let the door closed. Maybe this is a hidden feature already.


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## JWardell

Juergen said:


> Thanks! I ask for a technical solution. The waves need about 100ns for a two way transmission on 50ft. They can measure the time what the signal need like a ping on the computer. Is it outside the window was expected, the Tesla disconnect and let the door closed. Maybe this is a hidden feature already.


 It's a LOT more complex than that but nonetheless possible. Apple put a lot of effort into using both bluetooth and wifi to measure time of flight to determine where a device is in relationship to another, and use this when unlocking your computer when your watch is in front of it, also configuring devices like the appleTV from a very nearby phone. It's one of those things that will take a year or so of tweaking.
Every other car I've had has a ton of bluetooth annoyances with disconnection, priority connection, connecting to a phone in the house instead of in the drivers seat, etc.
The great thing about Teslas is they can and will continue to improve all the bluetooth features and performance, and your car just automatically updates with that new software. It boggles me why no other car manufacturer does this.


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## Guest

*Easy - have a timer that disables phone's Bluetooth for nighttime when we don't use our phones and re-enables before we leave.*
If I had to propose a fast solution I would *not allow to pair if phone's gyro sensor detects phone is not moving.*
For example my phone will not ask for pattern again up to the point the phone has rested on a surface for around 5 seconds.
Most of car thieves work during the nighttime when owner is asleep and vehicle is outdoors. If phone does not connect, can't extend signal.

There are many ways to protect with new software. Key fobs on the other hand are bricks that get old and never update.


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## ummgood

arnis said:


> *Easy - have a timer that disables phone's Bluetooth for nighttime when we don't use our phones and re-enables before we leave.*
> If I had to propose a fast solution I would *not allow to pair if phone's gyro sensor detects phone is not moving.*
> For example my phone will not ask for pattern again up to the point the phone has rested on a surface for around 5 seconds.
> Most of car thieves work during the nighttime when owner is asleep and vehicle is outdoors. If phone does not connect, can't extend signal.
> 
> There are many ways to protect with new software. Key fobs on the other hand are bricks that get old and never update.


The problem is you are assuming I want to shut off my bluetooth. If someone owns an apple watch they'll probably never want to shut it off.


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## JWardell

Agreed. I have 11 devices under my bluetooth list, including two smartwatches. I only turn off the bluetooth quickly when I want to reboot the bluetooth stack, which seems to fix a lot a problems with some BT things. I don't really understand why you would want to turn it off every night.


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## Steam613

If this has been addressed I missed it. iPhone 6S owner. If I am talking on the phone will it still unlock the car on approach?


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## SoFlaModel3

Steam613 said:


> If this has been addressed I missed it. iPhone 6S owner. If I am talking on the phone will it still unlock the car on approach?


Good to get a confirmation, but that shouldn't be a problem at all in my opinion.


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## AEDennis

On a tangent, but related here... Considering that Tesla's implementation of Bluetooth on S and X (and Roadster) only allowed one device to be attached at a time, I wonder how this will be affected by the reliance of BT for unlocking the car...


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## SoFlaModel3

AEDennis said:


> On a tangent, but related here... Considering that Tesla's implementation of Bluetooth on S and X (and Roadster) only allowed one device to be attached at a time, I wonder how this will be affected by the reliance of BT for unlocking the car...


It will always be looking for the "key" which can be the secondary if the primary is not found.


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## JWardell

AEDennis said:


> On a tangent, but related here... Considering that Tesla's implementation of Bluetooth on S and X (and Roadster) only allowed one device to be attached at a time, I wonder how this will be affected by the reliance of BT for unlocking the car...


Remember the 3 has all new computer systems, and a major switch to intel, so there should be a good chance the Bluetooth is significantly more modern and able to cope with multiple devices.


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## Sandy

JWardell said:


> Remember the 3 has all new computer systems, and a major switch to intel, so there should be a good chance the Bluetooth is significantly more modern and able to cope with multiple devices.


As well the owners manual for the 'key' stated that the app must be open for the door lock/unlock function to work. As long as the app is open in the background while talking it should not be an issue.


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## UncleT

RiggerJon said:


> Another random observation over the last week or two the range at which keyless entry unlocks the doors is much closer than it was upon delivery. This is a good thing, and I suspect the concern of having the phone in a room that's close to the garage is no longer an issue.





RCvetter said:


> I've noticed this too.
> Going to update then see if I can play with it during my lunch break..


On occasion I need to leave my phone in my car. After starting the car with the phone, is it possible to turn off your phone, leave it in the car and then use the keycard to lock and unlock? Thanks!


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## Maevra

UncleT said:


> On occasion I need to leave my phone in my car. After starting the car with the phone, is it possible to turn off your phone, leave it in the car and then use the keycard to lock and unlock? Thanks!


Kinda confused by the "starting your car with the phone" part UncleT, but assuming you mean "can I turn off my phone and leave it in the car and just use the key card to lock/unlock", then yes you can do this.


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## Runt8

Sandy said:


> As well the owners manual for the 'key' stated that the app must be open for the door lock/unlock function to work. As long as the app is open in the background while talking it should not be an issue.


Where does it say the app needs to be open?


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## UncleT

Maevra said:


> Kinda confused by the "starting your car with the phone" part UncleT, but assuming you mean "can I turn off my phone and leave it in the car and just use the key card to lock/unlock", then yes you can do this.


Thanks. I just wanted to emphasize that I would want to start the trip using the phone to unlock and turn on the car to get to my destination (rather than using the keycard).


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## Maevra

UncleT said:


> Thanks. I just wanted to emphasize that I would want to start the trip using the phone to unlock and turn on the car to get to my destination (rather than using the keycard).


Gotcha, thanks for clarifying! And yep you can do that.


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## MelindaV

UncleT said:


> Thanks. I just wanted to emphasize that I would want to start the trip using the phone to unlock and turn on the car to get to my destination (rather than using the keycard).


so presume you are considering driving to somewhere and for whatever reason not taking your phone out of the car when you get to the destination, but just the keycard. (IE meeting a friend at a boat dock or pool and locking everything in the car). So would power down the phone to disable bluetooth, stash it in the car then just take the card to lock and get back into the car when ready to go.

ok @Maevra @RCvetter @RiggerJon et all.... how about this.... in the above senerio, if someone were to break into the car and turn the phone back on, assuming it has a PIN/fingerprint/faceID lock, does the low energy Bluetooth re-engage when the phone is re-powered up, or does it need to first be unlocked? 
I would assume it would be sending the signal out once power is back on, but not sure how to test this without any BLE devices for my phone to be talking to.
Does the BLE turn back on the same between iPhone and Android?


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## Sandy

Runt8 said:


> Where does it say the app needs to be open?


https://electrek.co/2017/09/22/tesla-model-3-how-keyless-and-phone-entry-works/

Page 2:

Note: You must remain logged in to your MY TESLA account on the Model 3 mobileapp to use your smart phone to accessModel 3. The mobile app can be running inthe background.


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## Petra

MelindaV said:


> so presume you are considering driving to somewhere and for whatever reason not taking your phone out of the car when you get to the destination, but just the keycard. (IE meeting a friend at a boat dock or pool and locking everything in the car). So would power down the phone to disable bluetooth, stash it in the car then just take the card to lock and get back into the car when ready to go.
> 
> ok @Maevra @RCvetter @RiggerJon et all.... how about this.... in the above senerio, if someone were to break into the car and turn the phone back on, assuming it has a PIN/fingerprint/faceID lock, does the low energy Bluetooth re-engage when the phone is re-powered up, or does it need to first be unlocked?
> I would assume it would be sending the signal out once power is back on, but not sure how to test this without any BLE devices for my phone to be talking to.
> Does the BLE turn back on the same between iPhone and Android?


Encrypted Android phones require the unlock pattern/PIN/whatever to even boot up--no unlock, no boot and, therefore, no Bluetooth key functionality.


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## Runt8

Sandy said:


> https://electrek.co/2017/09/22/tesla-model-3-how-keyless-and-phone-entry-works/
> 
> Page 2:
> 
> Note: You must remain logged in to your MY TESLA account on the Model 3 mobileapp to use your smart phone to accessModel 3. The mobile app can be running inthe background.


Great, thanks. I'm assuming they are taking advantage of some method of auto-launching the app when the car is connected, since, at least on iOS, apps are unable to remain running in the background indefinitely.


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## favo

Petra said:


> Encrypted Android phones require the unlock pattern/PIN/whatever to even boot up--no unlock, no boot and, therefore, no Bluetooth key functionality.


Even if the phone is not encrypted, the app may need to be manually launched the first time after the phone boots. (I would recommend encrypting the phone for all-around security.)


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## Insaneoctane

Since we are on the smartphone key topic... Any of you owners care to comment on if you have experienced this scenario (or similar) ?

Spouse, kids and I walking towards the car. Typically, on my current vehicle, I just push the button on the door handle twice and unlock the doors for everyone. But, in this scenario, They are many steps ahead of me, so out of consideration, I pull out the key fob and unlock the doors for them before they arrive to the car. While I realize that the BT smartphone pairing probably works great for just me (like the handle button on my current car), in this situation it will be too late. Clearly the expected alternative is to pull out my smartphone, unlock it, find the app, launch the app, find the unlock buttons and unlock the doors for them. This *sounds* like a *lot* more work than the fob. I actually question if I could even pull it off before they arrived to the car after I thought of it. Am I overthinking this, or is this scenario just not pretty with Tesla's new smartphone /keycard solution?
Thanks for sharing your observations.


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## JHB

Insaneoctane said:


> Since we are on the smartphone key topic... Any of you owners care to comment on if you have experienced this scenario (or similar) ?
> 
> Spouse, kids and I walking towards the car. Typically, on my current vehicle, I just push the button on the door handle twice and unlock the doors for everyone. But, in this scenario, They are many steps ahead of me, so out of consideration, I pull out the key fob and unlock the doors for them before they arrive to the car. While I realize that the BT smartphone pairing probably works great for just me (like the handle button on my current car), in this situation it will be too late. Clearly the expected alternative is to pull out my smartphone, unlock it, find the app, launch the app, find the unlock buttons and unlock the doors for them. This *sounds* like a *lot* more work than the fob. I actually question if I could even pull it off before they arrived to the car after I thought of it. Am I overthinking this, or is this scenario just not pretty with Tesla's new smartphone /keycard solution?
> Thanks for sharing your observations.


Maybe sync her phone too.
Then the car will unlock if she gets close.
Don't know if the her driver profile will then activate...


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## MelindaV

Johan Botha said:


> Don't know if the her driver profile will then activate...


It will. Per the keycard/phone app info manual, the first phone the car recognizes will be the one the car assumes is the driver, so you would then need to override the user profile from the screen.


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## MelindaV

Sandy said:


> https://electrek.co/2017/09/22/tesla-model-3-how-keyless-and-phone-entry-works/
> 
> Page 2:
> 
> Note: You must remain logged in to your MY TESLA account on the Model 3 mobileapp to use your smart phone to accessModel 3. The mobile app can be running inthe background.


This is in the setting up of the key in the app. I believe after the key information is set, the app does not need to be running


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## Runt8

Insaneoctane said:


> Since we are on the smartphone key topic... Any of you owners care to comment on if you have experienced this scenario (or similar) ?
> 
> Spouse, kids and I walking towards the car. Typically, on my current vehicle, I just push the button on the door handle twice and unlock the doors for everyone. But, in this scenario, They are many steps ahead of me, so out of consideration, I pull out the key fob and unlock the doors for them before they arrive to the car. While I realize that the BT smartphone pairing probably works great for just me (like the handle button on my current car), in this situation it will be too late. Clearly the expected alternative is to pull out my smartphone, unlock it, find the app, launch the app, find the unlock buttons and unlock the doors for them. This *sounds* like a *lot* more work than the fob. I actually question if I could even pull it off before they arrived to the car after I thought of it. Am I overthinking this, or is this scenario just not pretty with Tesla's new smartphone /keycard solution?
> Thanks for sharing your observations.


You've hit on the one scenario where a keyfob is better than the phone app. There is a setting that allows you to unlock all of the doors when you approach, which solves this issue. But there are safety implications to having all the doors unlock automatically.

People have floated several ideas to solve this problem:

When in range of the car, display some type of UI on the phone lock screen to allow for easily unlocking all the doors. 
Pull on the drivers door handle once to open the door, then a second time to unlock the other doors. 
Use the AP cameras to do facial recognition of the people approaching the car and unlock the doors for only known people.
#1 is probably the easiest to implement, but depends on the capabilities of the phone.

Personally, I plan on using the setting to unlock all of the doors. Slightly off-topic, I think it's pretty cool that since the locks are all electric there's no indication of whether or not the door is unlocked (it either opens or it doesn't). On my current car there's a little knob that sticks up and it's very obvious when the doors unlock.


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## Runt8

MelindaV said:


> This is in the setting up of the key in the app. I believe after the key information is set, the app does not need to be running


I actually believe that the app will need to be running, as I'm willing to bet that Tesla has layered security on top of the Bluetooth channel that is handled by the app (which also explains why just removing the app is enough to prevent access to the car). However, I've been looking through the iOS developer documentation (I do iOS development on the side, although never had to deal with Bluetooth before), and there is a way for apps to advertise a Bluetooth connection even when the app isn't running. So it shouldn't matter if the Tesla app is actually running, the OS will relaunch it if necessary when the phone connects to the car.

No idea about android but I'm assuming is has similar capabilities.


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## SoFlaModel3

Runt8 said:


> I actually believe that the app will need to be running, as I'm willing to bet that Tesla has layered security on top of the Bluetooth channel that is handled by the app (which also explains why just removing the app is enough to prevent access to the car). However, I've been looking through the iOS developer documentation (I do iOS development on the side, although never had to deal with Bluetooth before), and there is a way for apps to advertise a Bluetooth connection even when the app isn't running. So it shouldn't matter if the Tesla app is actually running, the OS will relaunch it if necessary when the phone connects to the car.
> 
> No idea about android but I'm assuming is has similar capabilities.


The app likely needs to be running, but it can be running in the background. As @TrevP explained on the Tesla Show Podcast that he just appeared in (episode 77) that the phone can be left in your pocket and the doors unlock as you get to ~3 feet from the vehicle.


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## Runt8

SoFlaModel3 said:


> The app likely needs to be running, but it can be running in the background. As @TrevP explained on the Tesla Show Podcast that he just appeared in (episode 77) that the phone can be left in your pocket and the doors unlock as you get to ~3 feet from the vehicle.


The problem with "running in the background" is that this is very limited on iPhones for iOS apps. There are only very specific things they are allowed to do, most of them for short periods of time, and they can be terminated at any time (and there is no way the user can tell if an app is running in the background or not). From a users perspective, however, it shouldn't matter since it appears that the app can be relaunched automatically when the phone connects to the car.


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## SoFlaModel3

Runt8 said:


> The problem with "running in the background" is that this is very limited on iPhones for iOS apps. There are only very specific things they are allowed to do, most of them for short periods of time, and they can be terminated at any time (and there is no way the user can tell if an app is running in the background or not). From a users perspective, however, it shouldn't matter since it appears that the app can be relaunched automatically when the phone connects to the car.


I'm having trouble following -- from the settings menu you generally control which apps can (and do) run in the background with your permission.

Further to that a double tap on the home button will expose all apps running in the background and unless you hard close an app or turn off the device it will remain running in the background.

You may get "logged out" with inactivity, so I can't speak to the timing on this one. We shall see how this pans out.

I know for myself 9 times out of 10 I will pre-cool the car, so that all but guarantees that I'll be effectively logged in with the app running in the background.

I'm looking forward to playing around with this soon


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## Runt8

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I'm having trouble following -- from the settings menu you generally control which apps can (and do) run in the background with your permission.
> 
> Further to that a double tap on the home button will expose all apps running in the background and unless you hard close an app or turn off the device it will remain running in the background.
> 
> You may get "logged out" with inactivity, so I can't speak to the timing on this one. We shall see how this pans out.
> 
> I know for myself 9 times out of 10 I will pre-cool the car, so that all but guarantees that I'll be effectively logged in with the app running in the background.
> 
> I'm looking forward to playing around with this soon


This is a very common misconception. Double tapping the home button shows you a history of apps that have run, nothing more. Some of them may be doing something in the background, but most have been suspended or terminated. That's why double tapping the home button and then swiping up on all the apps in an attempt to save battery life is mostly a complete waste of time. The vast majority of those apps aren't running. The only time this is useful is to force a restart of an app if it is misbehaving.

Apple has a list of several things that apps are allowed to do in the background - things like accessing location services for navigation apps, playing music, network transfers, etc. The app has to register for these activities with the OS and then use only very limited APIs when running in the background. Most of the activities are strictly time limited (the exception being playing music), and the OS can stop them and suspend or terminate the app at any time.

This is probably getting into way too much detail - from a users perspective it doesn't matter if the app is suspended and then relaunched automatically, or if it's always running in the background.


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## RiggerJon

MelindaV said:


> so presume you are considering driving to somewhere and for whatever reason not taking your phone out of the car when you get to the destination, but just the keycard. (IE meeting a friend at a boat dock or pool and locking everything in the car). So would power down the phone to disable bluetooth, stash it in the car then just take the card to lock and get back into the car when ready to go.
> 
> ok @Maevra @RCvetter @RiggerJon et all.... how about this.... in the above senerio, if someone were to break into the car and turn the phone back on, assuming it has a PIN/fingerprint/faceID lock, does the low energy Bluetooth re-engage when the phone is re-powered up, or does it need to first be unlocked?
> I would assume it would be sending the signal out once power is back on, but not sure how to test this without any BLE devices for my phone to be talking to.
> Does the BLE turn back on the same between iPhone and Android?


Great questions. I had a similar scenario to this. I pulled up to the driveway & left my phone in the car as I pulled the trash can into the garage. Upon getting back in the car, it wouldn't allow me to put the car into drive. I used the key card to put the car into drive, but I'm sure I could have done the same inside of the Tesla app had I chosen that route. So there does seem to be at least some logic to prevent the car from being stolen if the phone is left in the car. The car did not auto lock with the phone inside of it. I'm sure I could have locked my phone into the car with the key card, had locking the phone in the car been the intention.

I'm not sure how the car would react if the phone was left in the car upon exit, then later taken out of the car and powered off & back on. I'm not sure if the car stays locked out until manually authorized via the keycard or app, or if the new BT session resets things. I hope it's the former. Will try to test that later.


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## Bokonon

Runt8 said:


> The problem with "running in the background" is that this is very limited on iPhones for iOS apps. There are only very specific things they are allowed to do, most of them for short periods of time, and they can be terminated at any time (and there is no way the user can tell if an app is running in the background or not). From a users perspective, however, it shouldn't matter since it appears that the app can be relaunched automatically when the phone connects to the car.


Agreed -- doesn't matter whether it's iOS or Android, a mobile OS can and will shut down any app at any time, as the phone's resources and usage dictate. (I've seen apps get killed just because the phone rang...) A well-designed mobile app seamlessly adheres to this reality by having the ability save/restore its current state at any time, thereby providing the illusion that it kept on running when you switch back to it.

So that is why I get a little nervous every time I read that the Tesla app "can be running in the background" in order to unlock your car... because how do I know that it is actually still running? That said, I doubt that Tesla would have gone all-in on a phone-based, fob-less unlocking mechanism if they didn't have a workaround (such as the Bluetooth-based one you identified a few posts back) and weren't 100% confident that it would be reliable.

Personally, as an Android user, what I'd like to see is a "key fob" widget that I can drop onto one of my home screens, thereby allowing me to lock/unlock the car, flash the lights, etc without having the launch the app at all. That would greatly simplify the kind of scenario that @Insaneoctane describes... instead of:

1. Pull out phone
2. Unlock phone
3. Find Tesla App
4. Launch Tesla App
5. Wait for Tesla App to load
6. Find Unlock button (though it looks like it's immediately visible...)
7. Press Unlock button

.... it would be:

1. Pull out phone
2. Unlock phone
3. Swipe to Home Screen where keyfob widget is located (if necessary)
4. Press Unlock button

I bet I could execute those four steps almost as quickly as I could perform the equivalent operation with a traditional keyfob.


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## Runt8

Bokonon said:


> Agreed -- doesn't matter whether it's iOS or Android, a mobile OS can and will shut down any app at any time, as the phone's resources and usage dictate. (I've seen apps get killed just because the phone rang...) A well-designed mobile app seamlessly adheres to this reality by having the ability save/restore its current state at any time, thereby providing the illusion that it kept on running when you switch back to it.
> 
> So that is why I get a little nervous every time I read that the Tesla app "can be running in the background" in order to unlock your car... because how do I know that it is actually still running? That said, I doubt that Tesla would have gone all-in on a phone-based, fob-less unlocking mechanism if they didn't have a workaround (such as the Bluetooth-based one you identified a few posts back) and weren't 100% confident that it would be reliable.
> 
> Personally, as an Android user, what I'd like to see is a "key fob" widget that I can drop onto one of my home screens, thereby allowing me to lock/unlock the car, flash the lights, etc without having the launch the app at all. That would greatly simplify the kind of scenario that @Insaneoctane describes... instead of:
> 
> 1. Pull out phone
> 2. Unlock phone
> 3. Find Tesla App
> 4. Launch Tesla App
> 5. Wait for Tesla App to load
> 6. Find Unlock button (though it looks like it's immediately visible...)
> 7. Press Unlock button
> 
> .... it would be:
> 
> 1. Pull out phone
> 2. Unlock phone
> 3. Swipe to Home Screen where keyfob widget is located (if necessary)
> 4. Press Unlock button
> 
> I bet I could execute those four steps almost as quickly as I could perform the equivalent operation with a traditional keyfob.


I agree - I'm sure Tesla will have tested this and have it working seamlessly. I'm also sure that there will be outliers who have problems with their phones and will come here to complain about it 

iOS can do lock screen widgets (which can be accessed by swiping over on the lock screen or down when the phone is unlocked). This would certainly be easier than launching the app, although I wonder about security implications if it's displayed on the lock screen. One benefit of the new iPhone X - the actions to unlock the phone and navigate past the lock screen are more disparate (looking to unlock/swiping to hide the lock screen, vs placing your finger on a button to unlock /pressing the button to hide the lock screen on previous iPhones). Makes it easier to interact with controls on the lock screen with the phone unlocked.

Apple also has HomeKit with support for locks, lights, etc that is easily accessible from control center. Not sure what the technical aspect would be in getting it to work but maybe something Tesla could look at.


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## Runt8

RiggerJon said:


> Great questions. I had a similar scenario to this. I pulled up to the driveway & left my phone in the car as I pulled the trash can into the garage. Upon getting back in the car, it wouldn't allow me to put the car into drive. I used the key card to put the car into drive, but I'm sure I could have done the same inside of the Tesla app had I chosen that route. So there does seem to be at least some logic to prevent the car from being stolen if the phone is left in the car. The car did not auto lock with the phone inside of it. I'm sure I could have locked my phone into the car with the key card, had locking the phone in the car been the intention.


Maybe if the car senses you've gotten out of the seat (it has weight sensors, right?), it forces you to unlock your phone in order to re-authenticate. That's the only thing I can think of if the phone never leaves the car.


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## Insaneoctane

Bokonon said:


> Agreed -- doesn't matter whether it's iOS or Android, a mobile OS can and will shut down any app at any time, as the phone's resources and usage dictate. (I've seen apps get killed just because the phone rang...) A well-designed mobile app seamlessly adheres to this reality by having the ability save/restore its current state at any time, thereby providing the illusion that it kept on running when you switch back to it.
> 
> So that is why I get a little nervous every time I read that the Tesla app "can be running in the background" in order to unlock your car... because how do I know that it is actually still running? That said, I doubt that Tesla would have gone all-in on a phone-based, fob-less unlocking mechanism if they didn't have a workaround (such as the Bluetooth-based one you identified a few posts back) and weren't 100% confident that it would be reliable.
> 
> Personally, as an Android user, what I'd like to see is a "key fob" widget that I can drop onto one of my home screens, thereby allowing me to lock/unlock the car, flash the lights, etc without having the launch the app at all. That would greatly simplify the kind of scenario that @Insaneoctane describes... instead of:
> 
> 1. Pull out phone
> 2. Unlock phone
> 3. Find Tesla App
> 4. Launch Tesla App
> 5. Wait for Tesla App to load
> 6. Find Unlock button (though it looks like it's immediately visible...)
> 7. Press Unlock button
> 
> .... it would be:
> 
> 1. Pull out phone
> 2. Unlock phone
> 3. Swipe to Home Screen where keyfob widget is located (if necessary)
> 4. Press Unlock button
> 
> I bet I could execute those four steps almost as quickly as I could perform the equivalent operation with a traditional keyfob.


I think you're onto the best reasonable solution. But with Android and iOS constantly changing things, I am not sure what is possible. I really want unlock options presented as immediately as possible. Probably not before phone unlock, but if I can have a widget I could even assign that to a button as a long press or double click. The key to minimizing this scenario from being inferior from a fob is for the Tesla app to offer shortcuts and allow immediate presentation after phone unlock.... Both iOS and Android have quick access swipe up or down for things like airplane mode. I would like to have faster access to certain Tesla app functionality as a priority than those settings.... How can we communicate this request to an owner who can influence Tesla??


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## SoFlaModel3

Runt8 said:


> This is a very common misconception. Double tapping the home button shows you a history of apps that have run, nothing more. Some of them may be doing something in the background, but most have been suspended or terminated. That's why double tapping the home button and then swiping up on all the apps in an attempt to save battery life is mostly a complete waste of time. The vast majority of those apps aren't running. The only time this is useful is to force a restart of an app if it is misbehaving.
> 
> Apple has a list of several things that apps are allowed to do in the background - things like accessing location services for navigation apps, playing music, network transfers, etc. The app has to register for these activities with the OS and then use only very limited APIs when running in the background. Most of the activities are strictly time limited (the exception being playing music), and the OS can stop them and suspend or terminate the app at any time.
> 
> This is probably getting into way too much detail - from a users perspective it doesn't matter if the app is suspended and then relaunched automatically, or if it's always running in the background.


At the risk of going further off topic, though at least relevant....

Yes you're right, double tapping home does provide a history of opened apps not a guarantee that one is actively running.

However, apps can run for a while in the background. There are workarounds to having apps terminate quickly. I'm sure Tesla can and will solve for this.

These solutions are often in place for communication apps. For instance at work I traded in my traditional desk phone and now use Cisco Jabber. It runs in the background all day and my phone rings when a call comes in without issue.


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## Maevra

@MelindaV great questions! You actually had me thinking about a lot of these scenarios so I went out and played with the car/phone connections a bit. I found some good stuff, though I will preface this by "this is software and Tesla could change it in the future." That being said, this is what I found:

Question 1: If I leave phone (powered off) in car and someone broke into the car and tries to power on the phone, will it unlock the app? On my iPhone, no apps will turn on until I verify with security PIN, so Tesla app will not be accessible and car will not drive unless they can get past the PIN.

Question 2: If BT is on but cellular data is off/inaccessible what can I do from the app? I was able to pop frunk and trunk, and drive car, but could not remote adjust the climate control or flash lights/honk horn via the app. This is expected anyway as some features are BT-dependent and some are cellular/wifi dependent.

Question 3: What if cellular data is on but BT is off? You can use the app to pop frunk, trunk, honk horn, flash lights, and remote adjust climate. However, you still need to authenticate the car via phone (so turn BT on) or use the key card to drive.

Interesting security note: If you are out of range of BT but have a cellular connection to the car and want to remotely pop frunk/trunk or unlock car, the app will ask you "Are you sure you want to do this? YES/NO". That's a great touch IMO because it makes accidentally unlocking the car remotely much harder. If you are within BT range however, car will unlock without the "are you sure" question.

Question 4: What is the range of BT for walk-up unlock? For walk-up unlock it seems to be within 10 feet or less. For other controls (frunk, trunk, unlock car remotely), after a certain range the car does it over cellular instead of over BT. I do not know what that exact range when the "handoff" from BT to cellular happens, but I'm guessing maybe 30-50 feet? Maybe someone who has more knowledge for BT range can give more specifics.


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## Runt8

SoFlaModel3 said:


> At the risk of going further off topic, though at least relevant....
> 
> Yes you're right, double tapping home does provide a history of opened apps not a guarantee that one is actively running.
> 
> However, apps can run for a while in the background. There are workarounds to having apps terminate quickly. I'm sure Tesla can and will solve for this.
> 
> These solutions are often in place for communication apps. For instance at work I traded in my traditional desk phone and now use Cisco Jabber. It runs in the background all day and my phone rings when a call comes in without issue.


Yes, there are tricks that apps can play to extend the amount of time in the background (the Facebook app was found to play a "silent sound" in the background which was keeping the app running; they claim it wasn't intentional). Apple has been known to pull apps from the store that use these tricks, so in general it's not a good idea. Also, the app can still be terminated by the OS if it's determined that the user needs additional resources.

As for the Cisco app, iOS 8 added notifications for VoIP. It's very similar to how I'm assuming the Tesla app works - you notify the OS that the specific app wants to handle a certain incoming notification (ie, bluetooth, or VoIP call in the case of the Cisco app) and the OS is responsible for starting up the app if it's not already running.

Anyway - I won't delve into this any more (once I get started on iOS development I can go for hours). Long story short there hopefully won't be any problems unlocking the car even if the app isn't running in the background.


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## SoFlaModel3

Maevra said:


> @MelindaV great questions! You actually had me thinking about a lot of these scenarios so I went out and played with the car/phone connections a bit. I found some good stuff, though I will preface this by "this is software and Tesla could change it in the future." That being said, this is what I found:
> 
> Question 1: If I leave phone (powered off) in car and someone broke into the car and tries to power on the phone, will it unlock the app? On my iPhone, no apps will turn on until I verify with security PIN, so Tesla app will not be accessible and car will not drive unless they can get past the PIN.
> 
> Question 2: If BT is on but cellular data is off/inaccessible what can I do from the app? I was able to pop frunk and trunk, and drive car, but could not remote adjust the climate control or flash lights/honk horn via the app. This is expected anyway as some features are BT-dependent and some are cellular/wifi dependent.
> 
> Question 3: What if cellular data is on but BT is off? You can use the app to pop frunk, trunk, honk horn, flash lights, and remote adjust climate. However, you still need to authenticate the car via phone (so turn BT on) or use the key card to drive.
> 
> Interesting security note: If you are out of range of BT but have a cellular connection to the car and want to remotely pop frunk/trunk or unlock car, the app will ask you "Are you sure you want to do this? YES/NO". That's a great touch IMO because it makes accidentally unlocking the car remotely much harder. If you are within BT range however, car will unlock without the "are you sure" question.
> 
> Question 4: What is the range of BT for walk-up unlock? For walk-up unlock it seems to be within 10 feet or less. For other controls (frunk, trunk, unlock car remotely), after a certain range the car does it over cellular instead of over BT. I do not know what that exact range when the "handoff" from BT to cellular happens, but I'm guessing maybe 30-50 feet? Maybe someone who has more knowledge for BT range can give more specifics.


I'm surprised by #3. I thought if you started the car via app you did not need the "key" (the phone or card in the case of Model 3).

I don't think it's a huge deal mind you. Really just surprised more than anything.


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## Maevra

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I'm surprised by #3. I thought if you started the car via app you did not need the "key" (the phone or card in the case of Model 3).
> 
> I don't think it's a huge deal mind you. Really just surprised more than anything.


Just to clarify Scenario 3 is if *BT is OFF.* In this case, the phone is the key but BT is the "connection" and if BT is off, effectively the car thinks the phone has disappeared so it can no longer authenticate for driving.

ETA: Also say if you're driving and your phone dies because it ran out of battery, the car still will continue driving, it won't suddenly die in the middle of the road because the connection is gone. You just always need the "authentication" to begin driving.


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## ummgood

Maevra said:


> Just to clarify Scenario 3 is if *BT is OFF.* In this case, the phone is the key but BT is the "connection" and if BT is off, effectively the car thinks the phone has disappeared so it can no longer authenticate for driving.
> 
> ETA: Also say if you're driving and your phone dies because it ran out of battery, the car still will continue driving, it won't suddenly die in the middle of the road because the connection is gone. You just always need the "authentication" to begin driving.


Exactly,

I was going to add that with BT off the car cannot tell where the phone is physically at. With BT on it knows the phone is within range of the car but with it off the phone could be in another country for all we know.


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## SoFlaModel3

Maevra said:


> Just to clarify Scenario 3 is if *BT is OFF.* In this case, the phone is the key but BT is the "connection" and if BT is off, effectively the car thinks the phone has disappeared so it can no longer authenticate for driving.
> 
> ETA: Also say if you're driving and your phone dies because it ran out of battery, the car still will continue driving, it won't suddenly die in the middle of the road because the connection is gone. You just always need the "authentication" to begin driving.


Right that's what surprised me. Let's say I'm out and my wife needs to move the car. I thought I could start it and unlock the doors for her and she could get in and drive.


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## RiggerJon

Maevra said:


> Question 3: What if cellular data is on but BT is off? You can use the app to pop frunk, trunk, honk horn, flash lights, and remote adjust climate. However, you still need to authenticate the car via phone (so turn BT on) or use the key card to drive.


Really? I can remotely unlock and allow keyless driving from the app if BT is off. In the app I have little circle buttons under the pic of the car that perform these functions (in iOS, if that matters).


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## SoFlaModel3

RiggerJon said:


> Really? I can remotely unlock and allow keyless driving from the app if BT is off. I have little circle buttons under the pic of the car that perform these functions (in iOS, if that matters).


That's what I thought!

With Model S you can leave your "key" behind. I asssumed Model 3 was the same.


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## Maevra

RiggerJon said:


> Really? I can remotely unlock and allow keyless driving from the app if BT is off. In the app I have little circle buttons under the pic of the car that perform these functions (in iOS, if that matters).


Haha, you beat me to it @RiggerJon . I was debating whether to add that info because I wasn't sure how to explain Keyless driving vs. BT authentication since Keyless doesn't really need the phone inside the car. You did a much better job than I could!

@SoFlaModel3 yes he's right. The Keyless driving option is there. I could authorize the car and let my friend drive without me or the phone being in BT range.


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## Maevra

RiggerJon said:


> Really? I can remotely unlock and allow keyless driving from the app if BT is off. In the app I have little circle buttons under the pic of the car that perform these functions (in iOS, if that matters).


@RiggerJon question for you: do you enable TouchID as well for Keyless? I use TouchID but is there an option to NOT use it, and just use the PIN code?


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## RiggerJon

Maevra said:


> Do you enable TouchID as well for Keyless? I use TouchID but if it's not enabled is it just the PIN code that's required for confirmation?


I haven't enabled TouchID yet - I will when I get the car transferred to my MyTesla account. As of now I have to enter my family member's password to allow keyless driving.


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## mdfraz

Just curious, Rigger and Maevra, can either/both of you feel the pure jealousy coming through the computer as you discuss these things??? :triumph:


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## Maevra

mdfraz said:


> Just curious, Rigger and Maevra, can either/both of you feel the pure jealousy coming through the computer as you discuss these things??? :triumph:


Been feeling a lot of love and support which makes it more worth it to share and figure things out! I love the questions everyone is asking because there are some scenarios I wouldn't even have thought of, so I'm learning a lot from my fellow owners, future TM3 owners, and MSX owners. Here's hoping the info we provide is helping to alleviate the waiting for everyone else.


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## RiggerJon

mdfraz said:


> Just curious, Rigger and Maevra, can either/both of you feel the pure jealousy coming through the computer as you discuss these things??? :triumph:


Ha! It's been super cool to have more folks and the platform to enable these conversations. Can't wait for the family to grow even more!


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## mdfraz

I appreciate both of your responses, and I think you took it this way, but I wanted to make sure you both knew I was totally joking. I love learning everything I can from the lucky few that already have their cars and you guys (and everyone else who has shared) have been amazing. Thanks again for that.

Though, all of this just makes the wait so much harder....haha.


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## RiggerJon

mdfraz said:


> I think you took it this way, but I wanted to make sure you both knew I was totally joking.


Oh yeah, that's the way it was perceived. You're good!


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## Sandy

MelindaV said:


> This is in the setting up of the key in the app. I believe after the key information is set, the app does not need to be running


Ok,cool. Missed that part.


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## Maevra

mdfraz said:


> I appreciate both of your responses, and I think you took it this way, but I wanted to make sure you both knew I was totally joking. I love learning everything I can from the lucky few that already have their cars and you guys (and everyone else who has shared) have been amazing. Thanks again for that.
> 
> Though, all of this just makes the wait so much harder....haha.


Lol don't worry, totally got you were joking.  Goodness knows I've salivated over the S and X forums for years, so feels good to be part of the club now!


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## JWardell

I assure you all that you do not have to worry about running the app, activating a widget, or the app getting shut down in the background on iOS.
I have plenty of other apps that control bluetooth devices that work perfectly, even after a reboot of the phone. Bluetooth trackers, bluetooth smartwatches, and more. Once you run and set up the apps for the first time, they will do what they need to do to communicate with the device without any app visibly running or showing up in your app switcher.

There was a time when this wasn't true, but background bluetooth device control has been solid for a good four years now. Assuming Tesla programs is iPhone app properly, you will not have to think about doing anything but walking up to your car and opening the door.


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## vita10gy

As long as Android and iOS allow apps to attach themselves to bluetooth connection events, which seems like it almost has to be the case for the other 32982304 things that use bluetooth and an app to do something, then what is or isn't allowed to "run in the background" is kind of moot, because it doesn't need to "be running" to be able to be automatically ran.

The phone could just know, "oh there's Tessie, the Tesla app wanted me to do X when we connect".


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## $ Trillion Musk

Just came across this video about a rumored Tesla smartphone, allthough I have doubts about its legitimacy and whether it fits into Tesla's mission statement.


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## Guest

It doesn't fit into Tesla's mission. 
As far as I see these are custom panels for iPhone (or similar) phone. 
Notice there is no phone. Just glass panels.
And it is reasonable to believe that somebody in China has custom panels made.


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## garsh

arnis said:


> It doesn't fit into Tesla's mission.


Well... surfboards.


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