# Elon Musk & Sandy Munro Guest on Third Row Tesla



## SAronian (Apr 4, 2019)

Third Row Tesla's YouTube Episode 14 posted today with Elon Musk & Sandy Munro Guest as guests.


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## bwilson4web (Mar 4, 2019)

Impressions:

'Consumer facing' is what leads to useless, superficial, sheet-metal art reviews.
Octa-valve schematic from Tesla would help more than wandering word salad.
"Local heating loop" helps a lot! So 100 W resistor heat become 300 W from heat pump. You can't cheat the 2nd Law of Thermal Dynamics but you can keep it from picking your pocket.

Elon, it needs to be a dialog, not a just a monolog.
Future Model 3 may get body structure casting!
30% reduction in body shop

Elon and Sandy agree "styling" should be lower priority compared to efficiency
Casting is a complex problem: vacuum, thermal management, and heat treatment
'Optimizing a thing that should not exist', Elon quote and Sandy concurs
Elon, evolution of factories with each Gigafactory
Berlin will get a new paint plant approach
Then began the Sandy Munro interview:

Sandy worked on nuclear and ship, electric power
Audi asked Munro to analyze the Model 3
Audi backed out a day or so before their Model 3 arrived
Sandy talked about Dr. Edward Deming ... wonderful!
Sandy points out the 'honorable competition' is not serious
Munro identifies the difference between serious Tesla vs the rest
"Bob Stempel", the last clued GM CEO
Munro and Associates has extensive aviation experience
Sandy roasts GE (Jack Welch managent!)
How do you talk people into doing something new?
I'm an old, retired engineer but one lesson learned, you can't afford to make junk. Your customers won't be fooled.

Bob Wilson


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## pjfw8 (Apr 28, 2016)

bwilson4web said:


> Impressions:
> 
> 'Consumer facing' is what leads to useless, superficial, sheet-metal art reviews.
> Octa-valve schematic from Tesla would help more than wandering word salad.
> ...


Watched the whole thing. Nice summary, Bob.


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

Folks forget that the Model 3 has a 5-way-valve, which was already revolutionary. The Y now has an 8-way coolant valve, probably adding that local loop to the heat pump plus the ability to interface heating and cooling to the cabin.
Most valvues are just on/off or at most 3-way. Typically you make a big valve block out of metal and mount several valves in it to achieve the complex functionality of this system. This is both expensive and heavy. Tesla molded a piece of wizardry in plastic at the bottom of the Model 3's superbottle that is the 5-way valve. They turn it like a stepper motor, and depending on position, it makes various paths in the cooling system. (Look for explanations of serial vs parallel cooling modes) It took me a while to wrap my head around it. 
The 8way valve probably works the same way, with just more paths.
But these tesla valves are genius. They are also cheap and small. Sandy is going to have a ball when he tears into it to see how it works.


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## Paul Hindle (Jul 7, 2017)

JWardell said:


> Folks forget that the Model 3 has a 5-way-valve, which was already revolutionary. The Y now has an 8-way coolant valve, probably adding that local loop to the heat pump plus the ability to interface heating and cooling to the cabin.
> Most valvues are just on/off or at most 3-way. Typically you make a big valve block out of metal and mount several valves in it to achieve the complex functionality of this system. This is both expensive and heavy. Tesla molded a piece of wizardry in plastic at the bottom of the Model 3's superbottle that is the 5-way valve. They turn it like a stepper motor, and depending on position, it makes various paths in the cooling system. (Look for explanations of serial vs parallel cooling modes) It took me a while to wrap my head around it.
> The 8way valve probably works the same way, with just more paths.
> But these tesla valves are genius. They are also cheap and small. Sandy is going to have a ball when he tears into it to see how it works.





bwilson4web said:


> Impressions:
> 
> Octa-valve schematic from Tesla would help more than wandering word salad.
> "Local heating loop" helps a lot! So 100 W resistor heat become 300 W from heat pump. You can't cheat the 2nd Law of Thermal Dynamics but you can keep it from picking your pocket.




This "local heating loop", it sounds like they are using the compressor in an inefficient resistance mode like they do with the drive units to generate heat "The control electronics may control the compressor to operate in an efficient mode or a lossy mode in which the compressor generates heat". Trev Page found the patent. This essentially means that the normal air source heat pump operation is supplemented with a form of electrical resistance heating for fast heating and very cold temperatures. Does this sound right to you?


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Paul Hindle said:


> Trev Page found the patent.


To give credit where due, Melinda was the one who originally discovered the patent back in May 2019. 



MelindaV said:


> and already in the works...
> https://patents.justia.com/patent/20190070924


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## Paul Hindle (Jul 7, 2017)

garsh said:


> To give credit where due, Melinda was the one who originally discovered the patent back in May 2019.


Thanks, I missed that discussion. I don't know if there is much of an energy savings using the "lossy" function verses a traditional resistance heater but it allows for one less component in the HVAC system. Tesla still hasn't utilized any form of insulation to increase HVAC efficiency.


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