# Software v10.2 2019.40.50.1 7fefc12d805a (12/24/2019). The Christmas Eve Update



## sduck

Rolling as of very early on Christmas Eve. Still installing, no install notes yet. Lots of others reporting it though on Facebook and other sites. HW 2.5 here.


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## Kizzy

Software Build v10.2 2019.40.50.1 7fefc12d805a (12/24/2019)


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## Kizzy

Software release notes for 2018 Model 3 LR AWD with hardware 2.5.


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## Kizzy

Aaaa! You can dictate into text fields now! Camp mode is right there with Dog mode.


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## Kizzy

Just for the record, this is v10.2.


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## Needsdecaf

Here it comes.....


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## Needsdecaf

Please, someone, show me screen shots or a video of the texting support. Let a guy dream until he gets the update!


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## DavidKent

Here is the Full Self-Driving Visualization Preview info acceptance window on M3P HW3.


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## Mr. Spacely

DavidKent said:


> Here is the Full Self-Driving Visualization Preview info acceptance window on M3P HW3.


This is the second feature that we cannot use until we get HW3.


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## iChris93

Mr. Spacely said:


> This is the second feature that we cannot use until we get HW3.


It's really just more of the first, visualizations.


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## JasonF

Darn, I got 40.2.1 too recently! If it follows the usual update pattern, that would mean I'd probably end up so late in line for this one, I'd skip over it entirely and get the next one.


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## DavidKent

Here are Picts of stop sign display and traffic light display. The traffic light icons are displayed quite small aligned with car icon. Both types of recognition worked great.


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## airj1012

Needsdecaf said:


> Please, someone, show me screen shots or a video of the texting support. Let a guy dream until he gets the update!


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## Pol Bettinger

For Europe (at least Luxembourg) there was one more feature added Smart Summon!
Cool... But not so cool is how it is bribed. Smartphone needs to be connected through Bluetooth, and in a distance of 6m. Max Travel will be 20m and then smart Summon will be disabled til a human driver took over.! So happy regulations :-(

One nice thing was the message during upgrade on the LCD screen claiming that presents will be unwrapped.


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## Needsdecaf

airj1012 said:


> ...YouTube...


One sad thing about this video was the guy going nuts over voice commands that other luxury brands have had for years. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited to have it. But it's because I've experienced it before and know what I'm missing. Telsa definitely playing catch up in this area. Even my 25k Golf GTI had better voice commands than my Model 3. And CarPlay which could do all this and more. So it's a bit weird to be celebrating this like it's something all new.

But you gotta take the bitter with the sweet and I'm glad we finally have this stuff.


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## littlD

Bug Report has been removed in this release (no response like in the past) and phrases like "Drive To", "Navigate to" are not working at present, maybe a different phrase?


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## Jay79

Needsdecaf said:


> One sad thing about this video was the guy going nuts over voice commands that other luxury brands have had for years. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited to have it. But it's because I've experienced it before and know what I'm missing. Telsa definitely playing catch up in this area. Even my 25k Golf GTI had better voice commands than my Model 3. And CarPlay which could do all this and more. So it's a bit weird to be celebrating this like it's something all new.
> 
> But you gotta take the bitter with the sweet and I'm glad we finally have this stuff.


Its simple, 90% of R&D budget goes to the Auto Pilot Program. Stuff like this not high on the priority list for Tesla. It does make for an excellent Christmas gift from Santa Musk though


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## garsh

littlD said:


> Bug Report has been removed in this release (no response like in the past) and phrases like "Drive To", "Navigate to" are not working at present, maybe a different phrase?


It sounds like something may have gone wrong with your upgrade, @littlD .


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## TrevP

Navigate to is working for me. Texting was spotty at first but I got the hang of it now. However I’m heated texting sessions voice commands get thrown to the side in favour of text messaging. Irritating.

A few voice commands you can try:

“Show me tire pressures”
“Open the HVAC controls”
“Show seat heaters”
“Set passenger seat to high/medium/low”
“Open display settings”
“Open energy graph”
“Zoom in/out on the map”
“Set wipers to auto /1/2/3”
“Show the odometer”
“Turn on rear defroster”
“Turn on windshield defroster”
“Show media”
“Adjust mirrors”
“Adjust steering wheel”
“Open phone app”
“Show text messages”


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## littlD

TrevP said:


> Navigate to is working for me. Texting was spotty at first but I got the hang of it now. However I'm heated texting sessions voice commands get thrown to the side in favour of text messaging. Irritating.
> 
> A few voice commands you can try:
> 
> "Show me tire pressures"
> "Open the HVAC controls"
> "Show seat heaters"
> "Set passenger seat to high/medium/low"
> "Open display settings"
> "Open energy graph"
> "Zoom in/out on the map"
> "Set wipers to auto /1/2/3"
> "Show the odometer"
> "Turn on rear defroster"
> "Turn on windshield defroster"
> "Show media"
> "Adjust mirrors"
> "Adjust steering wheel"
> "Open phone app"
> "Show text messages"


Funny thing, those all work.

And some more, like
"Turn on/off all seat heaters"
"Open/close charge port door"
"Show Wi-Fi"
"Enable/disable sentry mode"
"Open YouTube"

And now... Navigate is working without an intervening reboot... Go figure


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## larrygoldberg

Needsdecaf said:


> One sad thing about this video was the guy going nuts over voice commands that other luxury brands have had for years. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited to have it. But it's because I've experienced it before and know what I'm missing. Telsa definitely playing catch up in this area. Even my 25k Golf GTI had better voice commands than my Model 3. And CarPlay which could do all this and more. So it's a bit weird to be celebrating this like it's something all new.
> 
> But you gotta take the bitter with the sweet and I'm glad we finally have this stuff.


You're correct that Tesla is playing catch-up as far as the fluency of voice commands go... But that misses the very important differentiator that Tesla has over all the other phone and car devices that is clearly indicated in this update - the deep integration that voice commands will have with every facet of the car. No other make on the road will be able too match what Tesla will be able to do in terms of voice integration.


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## jybrick

I got the Trax app, but it replaced all the games, The rest are gone! 
Update: Never mind. Someone else (Zimmra) pointed out that they were moved to the entertainment window. In that window you have to select arcade at the top.


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## Needsdecaf

larrygoldberg said:


> You're correct that Tesla is playing catch-up as far as the fluency of voice commands go... But that misses the very important differentiator that Tesla has over all the other phone and car devices that is clearly indicated in this update - the deep integration that voice commands will have with every facet of the car. No other make on the road will be able too match what Tesla will be able to do in terms of voice integration.


Eh, not yet anyway. I wasn't talking about voice command fluency. I was talking about functionality. Plenty of cars can do more than just change radio stations or set a nav destination with voice control. MBUX and BMW's latest iDrive are particularly good now.


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## StromTrooperM3

Needsdecaf said:


> I was talking about functionality. Plenty of cars can do more than just change radio


I'm really expecting that full integration is on the way. Ie Roll down the driver's window, roll up all windows etc


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## Reliev

Needsdecaf said:


> Please, someone, show me screen shots or a video of the texting support. Let a guy dream until he gets the update!


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## Frully

garsh said:


> It sounds like something may have gone wrong with your upgrade, @littlD .


I had a fault (intermittent) a year ago where the mic icon would show up, but it wouldn't react to sound at all. Then it would say that it didn't hear me say anything. firmware update fixed it. Hope it hasn't dropped again.


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## Zimmra

jybrick said:


> I got the Trax app, but it replaced all the games, The rest are gone!


They're there, you don't access them in the 'Easter Egg' screen anymore
Pull up the App/Home Bar, Select 'Entertainment', at the top there are two tabs, one for theater and one for arcade


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## ateslik

Frully said:


> I had a fault (intermittent) a year ago where the mic icon would show up, but it wouldn't react to sound at all. Then it would say that it didn't hear me say anything. firmware update fixed it. Hope it hasn't dropped again.


i'm having this problem. So far two out of 30 or so commands have worked. The rest just display help info in the mic window. Also, my phone is connected but there is no messages card and no "calls" launcher. HW 2.5 LR RWD


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## Sjohnson20

Not sure what happened but my mic won’t pic up anything now. When I talk it flashes like it’s listening but no text appears.


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## fazluke

Reliev said:


>


Raj's phone shows a message and favorites under phone but mine does not, I have only favorites added. Is that another HW3 only feature. If it is, I'll be really pissed off. I'll be calling for HW3 installation now and I'd recommend everyone in my situation (bought FSD bt on HW2.5) to call their service center


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## Frully

ateslik said:


> i'm having this problem. So far two out of 30 or so commands have worked. The rest just display help info in the mic window. Also, my phone is connected but there is no messages card and no "calls" launcher. HW 2.5 LR RWD





Sjohnson20 said:


> Not sure what happened but my mic won't pic up anything now. When I talk it flashes like it's listening but no text appears.


This is exactly the behaviour mine had - it sort of blinks but not to the beat of what I'm saying (like when it works). I was in the SC probably 4 times and have a bunch of videos showing it not working a year ago...the good news is it's software, not hardware. the bad news, is it will take another release to fix probably.


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## ateslik

fazluke said:


> Raj's phone shows a message and favorites under phone but mine does not, I have only favorites added. Is that another HW3 only feature. If it is, I'll be really pissed off. I'll be calling for HW3 installation now and I'd recommend everyone in my situation (bought FSD bt on HW2.5) to call their service center


I also don't have a messages section in my phone screen like his shows in the video. I've rebooted twice, but no luck.

I also tried flipping my phone icon from Ahoy Hoy to Call, but that didn't help either.

Oh well, the two voice commands that worked were cool. I guess I'll just sit here playing backgammon until the next update fixes it.


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## John Di Cecco

I had that issue. I rebooted the MCU and all is well after reboot for me


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## BradB

I got a message that my phone was not compatible with text messaging. I have a Galaxy S8, so it is not exactly a dinosaur.


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## Needsdecaf

Sjohnson20 said:


> Not sure what happened but my mic won't pic up anything now. When I talk it flashes like it's listening but no text appears.


Mine is doing that intermittently too.


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## Needsdecaf

ateslik said:


> I also don't have a messages section in my phone screen like his shows in the video. I've rebooted twice, but no luck.
> 
> I also tried flipping my phone icon from Ahoy Hoy to Call, but that didn't help either.
> 
> Oh well, the two voice commands that worked were cool. I guess I'll just sit here playing backgammon until the next update fixes it.


You need to go to the Bluetooth settings on your phone and enable messages. Then you need to tap the Bluetooth icon on the MCU and re-connect your phone, then enable messages in the settings.


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## Needsdecaf

John Di Cecco said:


> I had that issue. I rebooted the MCU and all is well after reboot for me


Which issue, the deaf mic?


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## JeopardE

Has anyone tested Trax with a midi controller? Does it work?

Also there doesn't seem to be a way to save work to USB which is disappointing.


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## Reliev

ateslik said:


> i'm having this problem. So far two out of 30 or so commands have worked. The rest just display help info in the mic window. Also, my phone is connected but there is no messages card and no "calls" launcher. HW 2.5 LR RWD


you need to tap the Bluetooth icon in the upper right-hand corner and toggle the settings. @SoFlaModel3 told me that trick earlier 
@fazluke same thing applies to you to see the incoming messages.


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## Derik

Well my voice commands don’t work at all. But i can reply to text messages via the mic. Did the whole reboot and hard reboot and nothing.


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## Reliev

Derik said:


> Well my voice commands don't work at all. But i can reply to text messages via the mic. Did the whole reboot and hard reboot and nothing.


what command are you trying?


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## motocoder

HUGE regression for me. Maybe one out of 100 voice commands work now. Tried rebooting, power off, nothing helps.


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## motocoder

Sjohnson20 said:


> Not sure what happened but my mic won't pic up anything now. When I talk it flashes like it's listening but no text appears.


Same here. Occasionally it will (maybe 1 out of 100 times).


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## motocoder

I wonder if the issue is the Google speech recognition service is overloaded. EDIT: I think maybe it's Tesla servers that sit in the middle and are what actually talks to the Google servers.


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## Derik

Reliev said:


> what command are you trying?


many of them. Voice prompt comes up but no words show up and it goes away and does nothing. Tried even "ho ho ho" to see if it would set that and got nothing.


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## motocoder

Derik said:


> many of them. Voice prompt comes up but no words show up and it goes away and does nothing. Tried even "ho ho ho" to see if it would set that and got nothing.


Same here.it doesn't matter what command. It acts like it's not getting a response back from the Google service that is actually doing the voice recognition.


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## littlD

Derik said:


> many of them. Voice prompt comes up but no words show up and it goes away and does nothing. Tried even "ho ho ho" to see if it would set that and got nothing.


Now that many more cars are getting the update and many more people are trying out Voice command, the servers are overloaded.


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## motocoder

littlD said:


> Now that many more cars are getting the update and many more people are trying out Voice command, the servers are overloaded.


Well, and also people are at home for Christmas Eve, using their Google Assistant devices (Edit: Google Assistant working flawlessly - It's probably some under-provisioned Tesla servers that sit in the middle)


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## gary in NY

This is the first time I have sat in the car during an update. Sure is noisy.


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## Phillyasian

Important FYI:
In order for voice commands to work YOU MUST HOLD DOWN RIGHT BUTTON UNTIL YOU FINISH SPEAKING COMMAND.This is a change in prior functionality of voice control.!!!


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## Phillyasian

Derik said:


> Well my voice commands don't work at all. But i can reply to text messages via the mic. Did the whole reboot and hard reboot and nothing.


You must hold down the right button while speaking the whole command,then release when finished. It is a change from prior voice control functionality.


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## littlD




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## Needsdecaf

Phillyasian said:


> Important FYI:
> In order for voice commands to work YOU MUST HOLD DOWN RIGHT BUTTON UNTIL YOU FINISH SPEAKING COMMAND.This is a change in prior functionality of voice control.!!!


I don't think that's it. Still get the green mic icon with no text whatsoever.


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## Phillyasian

motocoder said:


> Same here.it doesn't matter what command. It acts like it's not getting a response back from the Google service that is actually doing the voice recognition.


You must hold down the button while speaking the whole command, which is a change in prior functionality.


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## Sjohnson20

I wasn't using voice commands much anyways so if it gets fixed on the next update then that's fine. No text at all appears when I speak.


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## fazluke

Needsdecaf said:


> You need to go to the Bluetooth settings on your phone and enable messages. Then you need to tap the Bluetooth icon on the MCU and re-connect your phone, then enable messages in the settings.


Thank you for the hint. Here is what fixed it. Click Bluetooth icon on the car screen top right. Follow the instruction listed. So simple.
Now I have the option, but could not send a text using voice command.


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## StromTrooperM3

Phillyasian said:


> You must hold down the button while speaking the whole command, which is a change in prior functionality.


I'm not sure I like that at all


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## Needsdecaf

Phillyasian said:


> You must hold down the button while speaking the whole command, which is a change in prior functionality.


nope. Not it.


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## sterickson

I only had one command (Show me the rear camera) work, out of the many that I tried, while on the highway tonight. Seems next to useless. Also, the car continues to drive weird in corners (drive straight, until line starts to get close, correct, drive straight, until line starts to get close, correct, ad infinitum). It saw two cars on the on-ramp to my right, and given our relative speeds, I should have sailed right by them with lots of room for them to merge in behind me, but instead it slams on the brakes. Damn good thing no one was behind me. And getting out of the passing lane is still 100% broken. Not impressed.


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## Rick Steinwand

Sounds like we should be watching for a 50.2 update soon.


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## fazluke

Just got a message in the app inbox saying to expect 10.2 soon. Anyone heard about that?


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## Rick Steinwand

fazluke said:


> Just got a message in the app inbox saying to expect 10.2 soon. Anyone heard about that?


2019.40.50.1 IS 10.2. Prior builds were 10.1.


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## Kizzy

fazluke said:


> Just got a message in the app inbox saying to expect 10.2 soon. Anyone heard about that?


Ah. I got that message too-12 hours after I'd already installed it. 🙂


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## rwsimon

As far as I can tell, holding down the button does nothing. The commands appear to work sporadically and randomly. Most of the time, the spoken words do not appear on the screen and nothing happens.


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## dburkland

This definitely looks to be a server side issue. With that said I wonder if they are sending the voice command traffic over the private VPN back to the Tesla mothership or if they are using a 3rd party service... Maybe a Christmas Day project


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## motocoder

Phillyasian said:


> You must hold down the right button while speaking the whole command,then release when finished. It is a change from prior voice control functionality.


Wrong.


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## littlD

Kizzy said:


> Ah. I got that message too-12 hours after I'd already installed it. 🙂


V10.2, not 2019.40.50.2...


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## motocoder

dburkland said:


> This definitely looks to be a server side issue. With that said I wonder if they are sending the voice command traffic over the private VPN back to the Tesla mothership or if they are using a 3rd party service... Maybe a Christmas Day project


That was my thought as well, but if so why is it working so well for some and not at all for others?


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## Rob Washington

HELP!!!!!!


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## JoeP

I found it worked a lot better after i rebooted the car after installation.
I'm on HW2.5 and there's definately some lagginess to some of the stuff.
(Stardew Valley just crashed on me before i rebooted). I then played backgammon succesfully but the music stuttered every time i moved.
Rebooting the car fixed the stuttering issue while playing backgammon.

Before rebooting only about 10% of the voice prompts worked including some of them that were in the release notes. I havent tried them all since rebooting though.


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## motocoder

JoeP said:


> I found it worked a lot better after i rebooted the car after installation.
> I'm on HW2.5 and there's definately some lagginess to some of the stuff.
> (Stardew Valley just crashed on me before i rebooted). I then played backgammon succesfully but the music stuttered every time i moved.
> Rebooting the car fixed the stuttering issue while playing backgammon.
> 
> Before rebooting only about 10% of the voice prompts worked including some of them that were in the release notes. I havent tried them all since rebooting though.


I've rebooted the car twice. No difference.


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## OKCU

Voice commands only work randomly, regular navigation request hardly work at all now. Rebooted several times. This is not show ready.


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## motocoder

It's working about one out of every five times now, so the busy server theory is looking more likely.


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## motocoder

OKCU said:


> Voice commands only work randomly, regular navigation request hardly work at all now. Rebooted several times. This is not show ready.


Give it some time. If my theory is correct, it's overloaded servers and not the car at all. As everyone gets tired of playing with it, the load will diminish and it should work pretty well for all of us.


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## garsh

littlD said:


> V10.2, not 2019.40.50.2...


V10.2 is the software version number.
2019.40.50.1 is the particular build number. All of the 2019.40.50.* builds are v10.2.
See the title of this thread. It has both.


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## FF35

OKCU said:


> Voice commands only work randomly, regular navigation request hardly work at all now. Rebooted several times. This is not show ready.


Not everyone likes their Christmas presents 😂🤣😂🤣🤣🤣


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## Hollywood7

Not true! ( Regarding having to hold down the button)


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## Kizzy

Speech to text worked 100% for me in my single test last night of “google.com” in the browser address bar.

Are folks seeing a difference between voice commands and dictation? (I have nowhere to go so I’m gonna stay inside my house rather than popping out to test it.)


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## sterickson

It would have been nice to see the visualizations, considering I paid for FSD with my car, over a year ago (and others have waited longer). Elon must be laughing all the way to the bank, having our thousands of dollars each, while not providing the hardware it paid for. Yes, that's sarcasm, but still ...


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## HappyDad

Anyone seeing double text overlay on this new 40.50 update during voice command? I see black bold text when it recognizes my command, but that overlays on top of non-bold grey instructional text talking about voice command examples. Only started seeing this after this 40.50 update today. Thanks.


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## Mike

littlD said:


> Bug Report has been removed in this release (no response like in the past) and phrases like "Drive To", "Navigate to" are not working at present, maybe a different phrase?


My car has lost all voice recognition capabilities with this update.

Two full power downs and two thumb scroll resets made no difference.

Since even "bug report" no longer functions, I passed this info via making a Mobile Ranger appointment.


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## sterickson

HappyDad said:


> Anyone seeing double text overlay on this new 40.50 update during voice command? I see black bold text when it recognizes my command, but that overlays on top of non-bold grey instructional text talking about voice command examples. Only started seeing this after this 40.50 update today. Thanks.


I saw it with the one only successful command I was able to get it to recognize and perform.


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## JoeP

So is the assumption that the voice recognition is "online" and when my car isnt online(driving in an area with no cell signal, which is basically everywhere i drive..) that voice wont work? I must admit i've almost never used voice before this version so i dont know. Talking to "things" doesnt seem natural to me..


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## Craig Bennett

JoeP said:


> I found it worked a lot better after i rebooted the car after installation.
> I'm on HW2.5 and there's definately some lagginess to some of the stuff.
> (Stardew Valley just crashed on me before i rebooted). I then played backgammon succesfully but the music stuttered every time i moved.
> Rebooting the car fixed the stuttering issue while playing backgammon.
> <edit>


HW 2.5 refers to the FSD computer/sensor suite. The MCU is separate and runs everything else you access through the screen - UI, games, music, HVAC, etc.

if you had HW 3.0 you would see the new FSD visualizations and perhaps improved A/P and FSD. Nothing else would change in terms of screen performance.

Craig


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## Mike

JoeP said:


> So is the assumption that the voice recognition is "online" and when my car isnt online(driving in an area with no cell signal, which is basically everywhere i drive..) that voice wont work? I must admit i've almost never used voice before this version so i dont know. Talking to "things" doesnt seem natural to me..


Voice won't work without LTE.

IMO this voice recognition stuff has to occur within the car to be reliable.


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## Chris350

BradB said:


> I got a message that my phone was not compatible with text messaging. I have a Galaxy S8, so it is not exactly a dinosaur.


Ok...

Using a Pixel 4 Xl.... I had this very same issue.... I then tried to reconnect it.... The issue for me was I was not looking at the phone during the process. When it was trying to reconnect, I got a notification on the phone that asked me if I wanted to allow the action. I approved it and it all worked...


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## NR4P

My voice input even for calls and nav has stopped working. I got the temp to change once and since then nothing works. Even repeating the examples on the screen are useless. It's like the mic is dead. 

Enabling messaging on my LG V30 with Android Pie was a nightmare. It works great on the 2013 Lexus so I know the phone supports it. Deleted the phone, re-added it 4 times. One time I saw the screen to allow messaging transfer on the phone and before I could tap YES it was gone. Deleted and unpaired the phone. Rebooted the Tesla system. Tried 3 more times with pairing and finally got it going. First the screen came up if I want to enable messaging transfer to "unknown". I tapped YES. About 20 seconds later, was asked to enable messaging to "V'GER". Voila, finally it worked. I get voice read out and receipt and dictation works. So the mic works, as I knew. If someone txts me first.

So between all the fun above, just like Dashcam rollout with USB corruption, Smart Summon with early problems, we learn to wait for the next update to correct the rush to push very buggy s/w out.

On Thursday, I will call my contact at the service center to start the push for my HW3.0 upgrade which I paid for a long time ago. I expect there will be many calls and tweets.


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## ibgeek

Mike said:


> Voice won't work without LTE.
> 
> IMO this voice recognition stuff has to occur within the car to be reliable.


No different than Google Home, Alexa or any other voice assistant that exists today. No internet or hammered servers as is the case today, no workie. Just relax for a day or two and it will all be fine. They'll likely have to spin up a little more server horsepower to account for the heavy usage of the curious car owners.


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## John

Trax!


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## Chris350

This has to be a server side issue.... This afternoon, all worked normally... All commands worked...

This evening, it didn't work for the first 10 minutes I was in the car. after that, it started working.... LTE was solid in all the areas I was driving in..


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## airj1012

sterickson said:


> It would have been nice to see the visualizations, considering I paid for FSD with my car, over a year ago (and others have waited longer). Elon must be laughing all the way to the bank, having our thousands of dollars each, while not providing the hardware it paid for. Yes, that's sarcasm, but still ...


Yup Elon and team are actually just a bunch of scam artists. They have been fooling us for years! They're actually sitting on a stockpile of HW3 chips but decided they wanted to piss off their customers by being lazy and not installing all the extra chips they have on hand.


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## airj1012

Speaking of server demand, is the biggest download/install day ever? The numbers on TeslaFi seem incredibly high. Biggest number I remember. Almost 4K for the day.


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## sterickson

airj1012 said:


> Yup Elon and team are actually just a bunch of scam artists. They have been fooling us for years! They're actually sitting on a stockpile of HW3 chips but decided they wanted to piss off their customers by being lazy and not installing all the extra chips they have on hand.


Nah, of course they aren't. I did say it was sarcasm. As annoying as this is, I enjoy my car and am glad I bought it.


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## motocoder

ibgeek said:


> No different than Google Home, Alexa or any other voice assistant that exists today. No internet or hammered servers as is the case today, no workie. Just relax for a day or two and it will all be fine. They'll likely have to spin up a little more server horsepower to account for the heavy usage of the curious car owners.


Except I don't drive my home into areas without LTE, or park it in underground parking decks. That's why every other car I've owned with voice capabilities had it built into the car rather than relying on Internet. Even Tesla has map data in the car so at least nav can continue to work w/o cell coverage. Voice commands should be the same, or at least operate with reduced capability of the car can't go online.


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## NightStorm

I got this last night. I think it is the worst update I've gotten in the 15 months I've had my model 3.

Every two weeks I take an hour drive north, today was my turn giving me a chance to play. When I got in the car my phone (Pixel 3XL) prompted me to for permission to permit messaging from the Tesla 3, which I granted. I used voice to dictate a message (it was clunky, but worked), tried a few other voice commands (set temperature, turn off all heated seats, etc) during the first 15 minutes of the drive and it all worked.

That was it for voice. Sometime after all voice commands would fail. The green microphone icon comes up, throbs in response to my voice, but does nothing other then give me suggestions of things I can say. I pulled over and rebooted, still does not work. There is now no time out on the voice, the green microphone will stay up, pulsating to my speach, but doing nothing. It only goes away when I click the right button (plus when I do that it does not restore the prior card).

Autopilot still drives like a fish (an old characteristic which returned with 40.2) tacking left and right within the lane. New to this release is that autopilot will disengage at random (two times during the trip up, once on the return), will beep at me for no apparent reason (no message, nothing on the screen to indicate why). Also new to this release is that autopilot stopped for me in traffic but then just sat there when the car in front of me pulled away, leaving me to quickly disengage autopilot and take over before the horns engage. 

Given that I don't have HW3, this is one I wish I could roll back.


----------



## bernie

ateslik said:


> I also don't have a messages section in my phone screen like his shows in the video. I've rebooted twice, but no luck.
> 
> I also tried flipping my phone icon from Ahoy Hoy to Call, but that didn't help either.
> 
> Oh well, the two voice commands that worked were cool. I guess I'll just sit here playing backgammon until the next update fixes it.


Check your tesla Bluetooth settings and make sure you have the correct settings


----------



## motocoder

NightStorm said:


> I got this last night. I think it is the worst update I've gotten in the 15 months I've had my model 3.
> That was it for voice. Sometime after all voice commands would fail. The green microphone icon comes up, throbs in response to my voice, but does nothing other then give me suggestions of things I can say. I pulled over and rebooted, still does not work. There is now no time out on the voice, the green microphone will stay up, pulsating to my speach, but doing nothing. It only goes away when I click the right button (plus when I do that it does not restore the prior card).


Well if it makes you feel any better, the voice command support is much improved now. Initially it didnt' work at all for me, now it's working about 70% of the time. IMO some back-end service (servers) that Tesla uses to handle the speech recognition were not able to handle the load from tens of thousands of users running out to their car to try out the new voice features. This explains why people who got it early didn't have an issue, and then as the day (and rollout) continued on, people started to report problems, and now the problems are subsiding. Hopefully Tesla has this hosted in a scalable manner in some commercial cloud somewhere, and will learn how to do a better job of capacity planning for future rollouts.


----------



## Sjohnson20

Mine started working now that its midnight. I guess it was the servers overloaded. Everything I tried seemed to work well.


----------



## dburkland

Sjohnson20 said:


> Mine started working now that its midnight. I guess it was the servers overloaded. Everything I tried seemed to work well.


Same here, had a few slow responses to commands otherwise the rest worked without issue.


----------



## Craig Bennett

For me voice commands are unstable/unusable but everything else seems OK.

What’s really surprising is that Tesla apparently pushed this out to folks with the Standard setting in their software update option. 

At least I assume that’s the case since setting to Advanced means you want to be an early adopter and fully expect that there could be significant bugs.

Tesla owners would NEVER demand to be first in line and then freak out about stability issues.

Right?!??


----------



## MGallo

NightStorm said:


> I got this last night. I think it is the worst update I've gotten in the 15 months I've had my model 3.
> 
> Every two weeks I take an hour drive north, today was my turn giving me a chance to play. When I got in the car my phone (Pixel 3XL) prompted me to for permission to permit messaging from the Tesla 3, which I granted. I used voice to dictate a message (it was clunky, but worked), tried a few other voice commands (set temperature, turn off all heated seats, etc) during the first 15 minutes of the drive and it all worked.
> 
> That was it for voice. Sometime after all voice commands would fail. The green microphone icon comes up, throbs in response to my voice, but does nothing other then give me suggestions of things I can say. I pulled over and rebooted, still does not work. There is now no time out on the voice, the green microphone will stay up, pulsating to my speach, but doing nothing. It only goes away when I click the right button (plus when I do that it does not restore the prior card).
> 
> Autopilot still drives like a fish (an old characteristic which returned with 40.2) tacking left and right within the lane. New to this release is that autopilot will disengage at random (two times during the trip up, once on the return), will beep at me for no apparent reason (no message, nothing on the screen to indicate why). Also new to this release is that autopilot stopped for me in traffic but then just sat there when the car in front of me pulled away, leaving me to quickly disengage autopilot and take over before the horns engage.
> 
> Given that I don't have HW3, this is one I wish I could roll back.


You should be able to gently tap the accelerator and it will go. No need to disengage AP.


----------



## FRC

Maybe all you folks who rushed to try out the new functions just tried too soon. You shouldn't open your Christmas presents until Christmas day. When I go driving this afternoon, I fully expect that all will be well with my gift from Elon.

Merry Christmas to all, and Happy Motoring!!


----------



## garsh

ibgeek said:


> No different than Google Home, Alexa or any other voice assistant that exists today. No internet or hammered servers as is the case today, no workie.


FYI, Google performs voice recognition client-side, on the phone. They learned that particular lesson long-ago. Hopefully Tesla will move this client-side as well in a future update.


----------



## rdskill

garsh said:


> FYI, Google performs voice recognition client-side, on the phone. They learned that particular lesson long-ago. Hopefully Tesla will move this client-side as well in a future update.


Hopefully not. Hardware v2.5 already lags dangerously as it is.


----------



## Ksb466

Needsdecaf said:


> One sad thing about this video was the guy going nuts over voice commands that other luxury brands have had for years. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited to have it. But it's because I've experienced it before and know what I'm missing. Telsa definitely playing catch up in this area. Even my 25k Golf GTI had better voice commands than my Model 3. And CarPlay which could do all this and more. So it's a bit weird to be celebrating this like it's something all new.
> 
> But you gotta take the bitter with the sweet and I'm glad we finally have this stuff.


while agreeing with the text and call voice commands, I think these commands go further than other cars, controlling nearly everything, and thus leapfrogged the others now.


----------



## Rick Steinwand

garsh said:


> FYI, Google performs voice recognition client-side, on the phone. They learned that particular lesson long-ago. Hopefully Tesla will move this client-side as well in a future update.


They might need to wait until HW3 is the norm before doing that.


----------



## garsh

rdskill said:


> Hopefully not. Hardware v2.5 already lags dangerously as it is.


I haven't noticed any bad lag. Where do you notice it?

If Google could get client-side voice recognition working on 2012-era mobile phone hardware, it shouldn't be too difficult for modern hardware.


----------



## garsh

Rick Steinwand said:


> They might need to wait until HW3 is the norm before doing that.


The requirements might be low enough that the MCU can handle it.


----------



## dburkland

garsh said:


> FYI, Google performs voice recognition client-side, on the phone. They learned that particular lesson long-ago. Hopefully Tesla will move this client-side as well in a future update.


Did you read the end of the article? The author makes a correction as google corrected him saying most of the work is done server-side not client-side.


----------



## NR4P

Lots of discussion on local vs server voice commands. Here's what a 2013 Lexus can do, without live up-link to a server.
6 years later, most commands should be possible without server connectivity other than live map updates.

Tesla could update this periodically just like map updates OTA and also crowd source for natural voice commands like they do AP corrections.


----------



## Needsdecaf

Ksb466 said:


> while agreeing with the text and call voice commands, I think these commands go further than other cars, controlling nearly everything, and thus leapfrogged the others now.


use MBUX and the new iDrive and get back to me. So far I have not found anything in the Tesla commands that they can't do. 
Plus, theirs work.


----------



## Hugh_Jassol

garsh said:


> FYI, Google performs voice recognition client-side, on the phone. They learned that particular lesson long-ago. Hopefully Tesla will move this client-side as well in a future update.


Not to go too far off topic here, but on my iPhone if I turn on airplane mode the Google app will not let me dictate anything. I press the microphone, it immediately exists out with a "no internet connection". Same is true for Google Maps - no internet, no dictation.


----------



## StromTrooperM3

NightStorm said:


> got this last night. I think it is the worst update I've gotten in the 15 months I've had my model 3.


Then I don't feel bad I still haven't gotten it yet 😂 santa really let me down this year


----------



## StromTrooperM3

Hugh_Jassol said:


> Not to go too far off topic here, but on my iPhone if I turn on airplane mode the Google app will not let me dictate anything. I press the microphone, it immediately exists out with a "no internet connection". Same is true for Google Maps - no internet, no dictation.
> 
> View attachment 31384


You can download an offline dictionary


----------



## Hugh_Jassol

StromTrooperM3 said:


> Then I don't feel bad I still haven't gotten it yet 😂 santa really let me down this year


Christmas isn't over yet! TeslaFi showing over 600 installs today so far


----------



## DocScott

rdskill said:


> Hopefully not. Hardware v2.5 already lags dangerously as it is.


That's not my understanding of HW3.

The HW3 chip is dedicated to image processing. That's all it does. Don't get me wrong--that's super-important, but it doesn't have anything to do with other functions of the car. It has no impact on overall computing power. So HW 2.5 and HW 3 should be identical when it comes to voice processing.


----------



## Hugh_Jassol

StromTrooperM3 said:


> You can download an offline dictionary


Downloading an offline dictionary is way different than doing "Natural Language parsing" like an Alexa or Google Home. The iPhone was capable of local "voice control" before Siri came around, but in order to understand "Take me to the McDonalds in the arts district" - that requires some 'internet smarts'.


----------



## StromTrooperM3

Hugh_Jassol said:


> but in order to understand "Take me to the McDonalds in the arts district"


Well obviously because this request is not simply voice dictation, it also requires a map call and AI to understand arts district. Huge difference

The car should be more than capable of inputting text to voice with no LTE


----------



## DocScott

I posted this in another thread previously, but it hasn't been answered, and it seems like a pretty basic question with important implications for future updates:

Do the new visualizations show up for someone without FSD but with HW3? There are a _lot_ of cars in that category, since for months now all Teslas have HW3 whether or not the owner springs for FSD.


----------



## Mike

motocoder said:


> Well if it makes you feel any better, the voice command support is much improved now. Initially it didnt' work at all for me, now it's working about 70% of the time. IMO some back-end service (servers) that Tesla uses to handle the speech recognition were not able to handle the load from tens of thousands of users running out to their car to try out the new voice features. This explains why people who got it early didn't have an issue, and then as the day (and rollout) continued on, people started to report problems, and now the problems are subsiding. Hopefully Tesla has this hosted in a scalable manner in some commercial cloud somewhere, and will learn how to do a better job of capacity planning for future rollouts.


As of 1520 GMT today, my car will still not understand any voice commands, including bug reports.

I can get text messages and they are read out to me, but I am unable to reply in kind.


----------



## Hugh_Jassol

DocScott said:


> That's not my understanding of HW3.
> 
> The HW3 chip is dedicated to image processing. That's all it does. Don't get me wrong--that's super-important, but it doesn't have anything to do with other functions of the car. It has no impact on overall computing power. So HW 2.5 and HW 3 should be identical when it comes to voice processing.


When people see "lag" for example, a car in the display seems to be a little "behind" real life, that could either be the MCU can't display it as fast as the info is coming in (unlikely) or that the info coming in is delayed because the Neural Net takes time to process the image, determine where the objects are, identify them, and then send that info to the MCU for display. So while, yes, the job of the HW3 upgrade is a 1000x faster neural net, faster image compression/processing, etc., it can (will?) result in things running faster/smoother in the UI. And what most consumers will see as "less lag"


----------



## DocScott

Hugh_Jassol said:


> When people see "lag" for example, a car in the display seems to be a little "behind" real life, that could either be the MCU can't display it as fast as the info is coming in (unlikely) or that the info coming in is delayed because the Neural Net takes time to process the image, determine where the objects are, identify them, and then send that info to the MCU for display. So while, yes, the job of the HW3 upgrade is a 1000x faster neural net, faster image compression/processing, etc., it can (will?) result in things running faster/smoother in the UI. And what most consumers will see as "less lag"


Depends which "things."

If anything, voice processing could, ironically, be _faster_ with HW2.5, because the MCU isn't having to deal with the firehose of information from HW3 and with rendering the new visualizations. Hopefully the firmware is better implemented than that, so that HW2.5 isn't actually faster at some tasks than HW3. But I don't understand why HW2.5 would be slower at tasks that don't have to do with information that the new chip is providing. (HW2.5 could certainly be slower or laggier at, e.g., displaying oncoming traffic in an adjacent lane.)


----------



## garsh

dburkland said:


> Did you read the end of the article? The author makes a correction as google corrected him saying most of the work is done server-side not client-side.


No I didn't. I thought I had read that it was a recent change (Android 9 or 10), but then I found this article. I'll have to see if I can find the article that I had originally read. Thanks for the correction!


----------



## SoFlaModel3

DocScott said:


> Depends which "things."
> 
> If anything, voice processing could, ironically, be _faster_ with HW2.5, because the MCU isn't having to deal with the firehose of information from HW3 and with rendering the new visualizations. Hopefully the firmware is better implemented than that, so that HW2.5 isn't actually faster at some tasks than HW3. But I don't understand why HW2.5 would be slower at tasks that don't have to do with information that the new chip is providing. (HW2.5 could certainly be slower or laggier at, e.g., displaying oncoming traffic in an adjacent lane.)


My understanding is that all of the processing is done on the server (not locally), which explains the outage yesterday as word was the servers crashed from the massive increase in usage.


----------



## Needsdecaf

Voice commands starting to work now.


----------



## ibgeek

StromTrooperM3 said:


> Well obviously because this request is not simply voice dictation, it also requires a map call and AI to understand arts district. Huge difference
> 
> The car should be more than capable of inputting text to voice with no LTE


Clearly Tesla is slacking. I mean yeah it can drive itself down the highway but big deal right? Sorry but all I see in this thread is a bunch of people whining.

Merry Christmas!


----------



## NightStorm

motocoder said:


> IMO some back-end service (servers) that Tesla uses to handle the speech recognition were not able to handle the load from tens of thousands of users running out to their car to try out the new voice features. This explains why people who got it early didn't have an issue, and then as the day (and rollout) continued on, people started to report problems, and now the problems are subsiding. Hopefully Tesla has this hosted in a scalable manner in some commercial cloud somewhere, and will learn how to do a better job of capacity planning for future rollouts.


That is an interesting thought, did not occur to me it could be a server side issue.

I just did an hour plus drive and tried voice many, many times. It is working better, maybe one in five, or perhaps as well as once in three times. That is a lot better than the zero of yesterday. During one of the "hits" I said "Show me the charging screen" and it did. That was cool. 

Still seems to drop out of autopilot easily though. It is the season of food and perhaps my hand has become too fat for it to counter.


----------



## NightStorm

MGallo said:


> You should be able to gently tap the accelerator and it will go. No need to disengage AP.


True. While I know that in my head I usually disengage automatically. After a year of autopilot I've developed an instinctive response to hitting the up paddle, way before my brain engages. As a consequence people are often asking me things like "Have you ever had such-n-such happen while on Autopilot and how does it react?" For many of these I have to say "I don't know" as my reaction gives me no opportunity to find out.


----------



## NightStorm

Mike said:


> I can get text messages and they are read out to me, but I am unable to reply in kind.


Interesting, mine (also HW2.5) does not read out messages to me or show any signs that it knows anything about inbound messages. The phone area shows only Recents, Contacts, and Dialer (no Messaging). I *am* able to dictate and send messages and the Pixel 3XL does have messaging enabled for the bluetooth Tesla connection. Just no incoming.


----------



## DocScott

ibgeek said:


> Clearly Tesla is slacking. I mean yeah it can drive itself down the highway but big deal right? Sorry but all I see in this thread is a bunch of people whining.
> 
> Merry Christmas!


By that metric, Elon Musk is a whiner. Suggestions as to directions and priorities for future improvements are not whining.


----------



## motocoder

Hugh_Jassol said:


> Not to go too far off topic here, but on my iPhone if I turn on airplane mode the Google app will not let me dictate anything. I press the microphone, it immediately exists out with a "no internet connection". Same is true for Google Maps - no internet, no dictation.
> 
> View attachment 31384


Dictation of arbitrary text is much different than recognition of a few specific phrases.


----------



## PiperPaul

This is a sincere shout out of *Thanks* to all the Forum users posting their "Early Adopter" experiences with software updates.
I'm content to let the dust settle on new releases while I scan the Forum so I have my expectations set when I eventually get to try out the new features.
So Thanks & Best wishes to the Founders, Moderators, and Participants who provide so much useful info - a great Christmas present!
Cheers/Slaintè from Nova Scotia!


----------



## TrevP

Found a bunch of commands by just trying various combinations of words. Too bad they're not completely documented. "Turn off floor vent" worked but couldn't find the right combination to turn off rear vent, mod or top vent.


----------



## Klaus-rf

Mr. Spacely said:


> This is the second feature that we cannot use until we get HW3.


 Re: "Full Self-Driving Visualization Preview"

My car does not show this on the Autopilot page. HW2.5, btw.


----------



## StromTrooperM3

ibgeek said:


> Clearly Tesla is slacking.


I'd rather have map waypoints than autopilot that ping pongs in the lane like I've been drinking jack Daniels all day but hey what do I know. My personal opinion is they are miss focusing priorities


----------



## fazluke

NR4P said:


> My voice input even for calls and nav has stopped working. I got the temp to change once and since then nothing works. Even repeating the examples on the screen are useless. It's like the mic is dead.
> 
> Enabling messaging on my LG V30 with Android Pie was a nightmare. It works great on the 2013 Lexus so I know the phone supports it. Deleted the phone, re-added it 4 times. One time I saw the screen to allow messaging transfer on the phone and before I could tap YES it was gone. Deleted and unpaired the phone. Rebooted the Tesla system. Tried 3 more times with pairing and finally got it going. First the screen came up if I want to enable messaging transfer to "unknown". I tapped YES. About 20 seconds later, was asked to enable messaging to "V'GER". Voila, finally it worked. I get voice read out and receipt and dictation works. So the mic works, as I knew. If someone txts me first.
> 
> So between all the fun above, just like Dashcam rollout with USB corruption, Smart Summon with early problems, we learn to wait for the next update to correct the rush to push very buggy s/w out.
> 
> On Thursday, I will call my contact at the service center to start the push for my HW3.0 upgrade which I paid for a long time ago. I expect there will be many calls and tweets.


Start by clicking the bluetooth icon on your car screen and follow the instructions...... watch for notices/confirmations on your cell


----------



## motocoder

Klaus-rf said:


> Re: "Full Self-Driving Visualization Preview"
> 
> My car does not show this on the Autopilot page. HW2.5, btw.


Honestly, you're not missing much. I think they just put it in there to show the customers that there is some progress on FSD for city streets. There's zero use to the visualizations by themselves.


----------



## NYR

Wow - they killed LTE usage in Canada. Can't use YouTube, etc. on LTE anymore in Park.


----------



## Tesla blue Y

Well I updated to 40.50 and now I cannot connect my phone's bluetooth to the car. The voice commands seem to be limited to set the temperature to 70 degrees(intermittently). I get that by hitting the microphone on the screen. The right thumb wheel acts like it is working but the car does not respond. I have done the 2 thumb restart 4 times and 2 thumbs with foot on the brake also without change. I have restarted the phone X 3. I connected the phone to my wife's RAV 4 without problems. Deleted the phone as the key and reinstalled it. The phone is working as the key and the car responds to commands within the Tesla app (most recent version 3.10.3). As far as I can tell the download completed without difficulty.

what am I missing?


----------



## JoeP

Well it


Mike said:


> Voice won't work without LTE.
> 
> IMO this voice recognition stuff has to occur within the car to be reliable.


 won't work without connectivity you mean. I use it in my garage and there's no let for miles up here


----------



## Sjohnson20

The voice commands stopped working again today for me when I tried them.


----------



## rdskill

DocScott said:


> That's not my understanding of HW3.
> 
> The HW3 chip is dedicated to image processing. That's all it does. Don't get me wrong--that's super-important, but it doesn't have anything to do with other functions of the car. It has no impact on overall computing power. So HW 2.5 and HW 3 should be identical when it comes to voice processing.


I agree. 2.5 can't process the images anything near what 3.0 does. Didn't Elon say the 3.0 was running at 5% load while 2.5 was at 80%.


----------



## rdskill

garsh said:


> I haven't noticed any bad lag. Where do you notice it?
> 
> If Google could get client-side voice recognition working on 2012-era mobile phone hardware, it shouldn't be too difficult for modern hardware.


I mostly notice it when a car turns left at a safe distance from me and the car suddenly brakes mostly when the car is about to clear my lane at a safe distance or like this morning when the car has completely cleared the 2 lane road I was traveling down. I use autosteer in town as well as the interstate.

As for client-side voice recognition (vR), on my android phone (LG v20 running v8.0) today when i was out of cell range and a message appeared saying the audio had been saved to an email. I thought that was pretty cool. I couldn't think of any commands to give the phone for internal functions, but I am assuming its pretty basic like Tesla's and other car's voice commands have been over the years as I am pretty sure all the heavy lifting is down on their vR Server.

Interesting enough, my 2013 Prius Gen III worked perfectly with my Microsoft Phone via Cortana. I could send/receive calls, text messages and notifications all via voice. It was pretty extensive and worked flawlessly and quick even though it was going thru my phone to a special phone number. That all ended the day I had to switch to Android.


----------



## melmartin

Same here... frustrating that they would put this out with a likely skeleton crew on the holiday. Could have been handled way better. Pretty clear server issues that could not handle the load.


----------



## sterickson

StromTrooperM3 said:


> I'd rather have map waypoints than autopilot that ping pongs in the lane like I've been drinking jack Daniels all day but hey what do I know. My personal opinion is they are miss focusing priorities


I wonder what will happen when someone gets forced to take a field sobriety test, and gets a ticket, and they try to explain that it was the *car* doing that, not them...


----------



## ibgeek

DocScott said:


> By that metric, Elon Musk is a whiner. Suggestions as to directions and priorities for future improvements are not whining.


That is not what I was referring to.


----------



## sduck

Perhaps you should look/ask in the thread for that version.
edit: I have no idea why my post got moved here. The post I was responding to is no longer right above this post, so it makes no sense. Thanks, mods.


----------



## Jeremyrwb

Apologies if I'm missing something. 
I updated last night but didn't get a chance to test it out until this morning, and I don't have any of the new visualizations. Pretty sure I'm on HW3, got my m3 LR AWD in August. I am in Western Canada though, is that something that may just be delayed up here? Shouldn't be, since I still got the update, right?


----------



## GDN

We all know that Tesla’s first release of any feature is a little rough and then gets refined. Having said that when it comes to what features they can or can’t activate via voice commmands it limitless. There isn’t a switch one on the car that doesn’t just send a command to the computer and then the computer makes the action happen, including the windows. If they wanted we could raise and lower. the windows by voice, turn on a blinker. Put it in drive even. We know they will never add some of those for fear of a bad interpretation, but know they can create a command for anything the car can do.


----------



## SoFlaModel3

motocoder said:


> Honestly, you're not missing much. I think they just put it in there to show the customers that there is some progress on FSD for city streets. There's zero use to the visualizations by themselves.


I think it may be more than a preview. The visualization is just alright like you said, but I believe (could just be me) that they're running FSD functionality in shadow mode and comparing against what the human driver does.

It's like step 1 - show you things and then step 2 - act on those things.

It's all very exciting.

I bet we all get HW3 in Q1 as Elon stated and the car starts to "act" on city streets in Q2.


----------



## bernie

I got the update while traveling like many of us in Xmas eve. In the Sierra Nevada foothills so 1-3 bars of LTE - voice command would not recognize any sound. I continued trying as I drove home to San Francisco with strong and signal, 99% of the time, when it did catch my voice it would not execute the command. So actually worse than previous versions. I couldn’t even ask it to make a simple call. Perhaps the system is overwhelmed by the mass update. I also noticed autopilot was really “fishy” meaning it would wiggle in the lane unnecessarily even when lanes were straight. In heavy traffic I had to disengage autopilot as it made me and other drivers nervous- the movement was odd enough to mimic a drunk or distracted driver though the car did stay in the lane. Last thing my car needs is a DUI lol or uh me. Couldn’t execute a bug report . Anyway I’m sure it will get fixed. I was mainly excited to new software for Christmas, new Tesla puddle lights, and a new model 3 console tray


----------



## garsh

ibgeek said:


> No different than Google Home, Alexa or any other voice assistant that exists today. No internet or hammered servers as is the case today, no workie.





garsh said:


> FYI, Google performs voice recognition client-side, on the phone.





dburkland said:


> Did you read the end of the article? The author makes a correction as google corrected him saying most of the work is done server-side not client-side.





garsh said:


> No I didn't. I thought I had read that it was a recent change (Android 9 or 10), but then I found this article. I'll have to see if I can find the article that I had originally read. Thanks for the correction!


Found it! Google announced this change in May 2019. Sorry for the bogus Forbes article from 2012. 

https://www.blog.google/products/assistant/next-generation-google-assistant-io/
​_To power the Google Assistant, we rely on the full computing power of our data centers to support speech transcription and language understanding models. We challenged ourselves to re-invent these models, making them light enough to run on a phone._​​_Today, we've reached a new milestone. Building upon advancements in recurrent neural networks, we developed completely new speech recognition and language understanding models, bringing 100GB of models in the cloud down to less than half a gigabyte. With these new models,* the AI that powers the Assistant can now run locally on your phone. *This breakthrough enabled us to create a next generation Assistant that processes speech on-device at nearly zero latency, with transcription that happens in real-time, even when you have no network connection._​​


----------



## WonkoTheSane

BradB said:


> I got a message that my phone was not compatible with text messaging. I have a Galaxy S8, so it is not exactly a dinosaur.


I have a Galaxy S8+ and I got a prompt on my phone asking if it was okay to share texting. I responded yes and texting works well. 
The instructions are kindof backwards in the release notes. You need to do the Bluetooth stuff first.


----------



## WonkoTheSane

NR4P said:


> ...Deleted the phone, re-added it 4 times...


The definition of insanity ...


----------



## EchoCharlie3189

Touchscreen power down and waiting 3+ minutes didn't fix it and I updated to 2019.40.50 now and the radio still won't work. Might be time for an SC visit...


----------



## DocScott

NYR said:


> Wow - they killed LTE usage in Canada. Can't use YouTube, etc. on LTE anymore in Park.


Are you paying for premium connectivity?


----------



## tencate

bernie said:


> I got the update while traveling like many of us in Xmas eve. In the Sierra Nevada foothills


I've gotten more updates over the past several years than I can count. Only one of them failed (incomplete and left the car in a funky state). Tesla service pushed it again and all was well. But I did this just before I was about to embark on a long trip to CA and I totally lucked out getting Tesla's attention before I left, otherwise I'd have been screwed with an unresponsive car (and likely with a seriously PO'd wife too I might add).

So what do I do? I'm careful when I choose to update, especially before or on a long trip. I keep telling myself "Patience grasshopper". And reminding myself that Tesla Service is stretched way too thin these days and if the update fails to completely install for some reason, I'm not stuck in the middle of the desert Southwest somewhere. Or worse, having to take the ICE car!


----------



## ig0p0g0

I’m focused on the important stuff, as usual.

TRAX is so laggy for me that it’s unusable. Impossible to get a note where you want it, and it doesn’t seem possible to edit the track.

I’m a line waiter and day one FSD adopter. Am I not entitled to compose decent music in my car?


----------



## Greg Appelt

Jeremyrwb said:


> Apologies if I'm missing something.
> I updated last night but didn't get a chance to test it out until this morning, and I don't have any of the new visualizations. Pretty sure I'm on HW3, got my m3 LR AWD in August. I am in Western Canada though, is that something that may just be delayed up here? Shouldn't be, since I still got the update, right?


Make sure that you go into your settings and turn them on. I missed that step myself.


----------



## Greg Appelt

EchoCharlie3189 said:


> Touchscreen power down and waiting 3+ minutes didn't fix it and I updated to 2019.40.50 now and the radio still won't work. Might be time for an SC visit...


I also had an issue with no responsiveness from the text to speech and vice versa. Turns out I clicked the left scroll wheel (since it doesn't say which one) which actually mutes all audio.


----------



## EchoCharlie3189

Greg Appelt said:


> I also had an issue with no responsiveness from the text to speech and vice versa. Turns out I clicked the left scroll wheel (since it doesn't say which one) which actually mutes all audio.


Mine plays everything else fine, which is good since I can use the Tunein app to play my radio station but the radio feature just gets hung up and won't play.

I discovered this in a car full of people this past Saturday while trying to watch one of those christmas light shows that is tuned to a station. Luckily the house played the music on a speaker too (sucks to be their neighbors...) so we just left the windows open.


----------



## StromTrooperM3

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I bet we all get HW3 in Q1 as Elon stated and the car starts to "act" on city streets in Q2.


I'll take that bet


----------



## Mr. Spacely

sterickson said:


> I wonder what will happen when someone gets forced to take a field sobriety test, and gets a ticket, and they try to explain that it was the *car* doing that, not them...


This brings up a whole issue. My friends always ask me to drive "because you won't get a DUI with the car driving itself." Tesla owners may actually be more suseptible to being pulled over if the car is weaving around...


----------



## Hugh_Jassol

garsh said:


> Found it! Google announced this change in May 2019. Sorry for the bogus Forbes article from 2012.
> 
> https://www.blog.google/products/assistant/next-generation-google-assistant-io/
> ​_To power the Google Assistant, we rely on the full computing power of our data centers to support speech transcription and language understanding models. We challenged ourselves to re-invent these models, making them light enough to run on a phone._​​_Today, we've reached a new milestone. Building upon advancements in recurrent neural networks, we developed completely new speech recognition and language understanding models, bringing 100GB of models in the cloud down to less than half a gigabyte. With these new models,* the AI that powers the Assistant can now run locally on your phone. *This breakthrough enabled us to create a next generation Assistant that processes speech on-device at nearly zero latency, with transcription that happens in real-time, even when you have no network connection._​​


So maybe this is a Pixel-exclusive? It definitely does NOT work that way on my phones


----------



## Jeremyrwb

Greg Appelt said:


> Make sure that you go into your settings and turn them on. I missed that step myself.


The toggle isn't even there for me to turn them on... I have the rest of the update, just no visualizations. But it seems this is a shared Canada thing, probably just have to wait a couple weeks.


----------



## Mike

NightStorm said:


> Interesting, mine (also HW2.5) does not read out messages to me or show any signs that it knows anything about inbound messages. The phone area shows only Recents, Contacts, and Dialer (no Messaging). I *am* able to dictate and send messages and the Pixel 3XL does have messaging enabled for the bluetooth Tesla connection. Just no incoming.


I'll try again tomorrow as I have a three hour drive home to see if my car will be able to listen to me yet


----------



## Mike

TrevP said:


> Found a bunch of commands by just trying various combinations of words. Too bad they're not completely documented. "Turn off floor vent" worked but couldn't find the right combination to turn off rear vent, mod or top vent.


I'm glad you posted these examples as my car still cannot process any voice commands and some folks have stipulated one needs to hold the button on the steering wheel down for a few seconds to get it to work.

To reply to a text I see you only have to tap and release, talk and then tap again........is this correct? Thanks @TrevP


----------



## Mike

JoeP said:


> Well it
> 
> won't work without connectivity you mean. I use it in my garage and there's no let for miles up here


You are correct.

I defaulted to the term LTE when I really meant is connectivity of any kind.

Any hiccup in connectivity fouls up the Spotify and any ability to have the car recognize voice inputs (my car still does not recognize any voice inputs, including bug reports).


----------



## garsh

Hugh_Jassol said:


> So maybe this is a Pixel-exclusive? It definitely does NOT work that way on my phones


As far as I can tell, it's only available on Pixel 4 phones right now.

I imagine that it will be made available on additional models in the future, as long as those phones have enough horsepower to run it. I doubt anybody but Google will be willing to add engineering effort (re: money) into getting it to work on existing hardware. Google will probably port it to Pixel 3 and 3a phones if the hardware can handle it.


----------



## iChris93

Jeremyrwb said:


> The toggle isn't even there for me to turn them on... I have the rest of the update, just no visualizations. But it seems this is a shared Canada thing, probably just have to wait a couple weeks.


Do you have FSD?
Edit: just read it's not available outside of USA.


----------



## ibgeek

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I think it may be more than a preview. The visualization is just alright like you said, but I believe (could just be me) that they're running FSD functionality in shadow mode and comparing against what the human driver does.
> 
> It's like step 1 - show you things and then step 2 - act on those things.
> 
> It's all very exciting.
> 
> I bet we all get HW3 in Q1 as Elon stated and the car starts to "act" on city streets in Q2.


You are are correct. The only thing I would change is that I believe that the hardware updates will only be mostly done in Q1. A lot is going to happen fairly fast in 2020 for Tesla. Going to be a good year for owners for sure.


----------



## WonkoTheSane

I'm not too worried about most of the voice commands, as I will probably use my fingers to do most of that stuff.

That being said, "heat seater" works just as well as "seat heater".


----------



## John

NightStorm said:


> I pulled over and rebooted, still does not work.


FWIW, you don't have to pull over to reboot.

As the MCU reboots you can't hear the turn signals (though they still work normally) and can't see the speedometer and navigation-but the driving functions (including AP) work uninterrupted. If you are on a familiar route and aren't stressed, you can just do it as you drive.


----------



## Long Ranger

NightStorm said:


> Interesting, mine (also HW2.5) does not read out messages to me or show any signs that it knows anything about inbound messages. The phone area shows only Recents, Contacts, and Dialer (no Messaging). I *am* able to dictate and send messages and the Pixel 3XL does have messaging enabled for the bluetooth Tesla connection. Just no incoming.


Did you tap the Bluetooth icon in the car and enable Sync Messages? It won't show incoming messages until you do that.


----------



## motocoder

Mike said:


> I'm glad you posted these examples as my car still cannot process any voice commands and some folks have stipulated one needs to hold the button on the steering wheel down for a few seconds to get it to work.
> @TrevP


That is not correct. You just tap the right wheel - no need to hold it down. The issue with the voice commands is that the Tesla servers are massively overloaded due to the release and the holidays - everyone is out trying the feature at once whereas before people only sporadically used voice commands.

Unfortunately, there is some guy here spreading the misinformation that you need to hold it down, because apparently he did that and it worked for him that time (random chance). Reminds me of those animal conditioning experiments that BF Skinner did with lab rats - first train the rats with a reward when they perform some action, then change the system to give the rats rewards at random times. Eventually the rats will start doing a strange dance thinking it's causing them to get a reward. Or in this case, they'll come to TeslaOwnersOnline and tell everyone they need to hold down the scroll wheel to trigger the voice command


----------



## shmackers

Still have not got this update. Have quadruple checked wifi. AP2.5, advanced software selected, purchased FSD...


----------



## Mike

motocoder said:


> That is not correct. You just tap the right wheel - no need to hold it down. The issue with the voice commands is that the Tesla servers are massively overloaded due to the release and the holidays - everyone is out trying the feature at once whereas before people only sporadically used voice commands.
> 
> Unfortunately, there is some guy here spreading the misinformation that you need to hold it down, because apparently he did that and it worked for him that time (random chance). Reminds me of those animal conditioning experiments that BF Skinner did with lab rats - first train the rats with a reward when they perform some action, then change the system to give the rats rewards at random times. Eventually the rats will start doing a strange dance thinking it's causing them to get a reward. Or in this case, they'll come to TeslaOwnersOnline and tell everyone they need to hold down the scroll wheel to trigger the voice command


How true 

I'm able to get voice commands to now work, but now the text message thing won't work (settings same as two days ago when I was able to receive texts.....)

Baby steps, but in the right direction.


----------



## motocoder

Mike said:


> How true
> 
> I'm able to get voice commands to now work, but now the text message thing won't work (settings same as two days ago when I was able to receive texts.....)
> 
> Baby steps, but in the right direction.


I'm thinking Tesla is going to have to do some work to scale out the voice processing service now that there are so many more reasons to use it. So maybe it won't be 100% reliable until they have a chance to do that.


----------



## melmartin

Voice commands working at 99%+ success rate for me today.. servers are less strained or Tesla has managed more bandwidth. Whatever the reason, I'm much happier (if it lasts).


----------



## Abrasha Staszewski

I am still struggling with the bad results from the 40.50.1 update.

Among several other things that don't work, the worst part is that even though "Sync Contacts and Recent Calls" is checked, I can no longer see any of my contacts.

Deleting the phone from the car and deleting the car in Bluetooth setting from my phone, rebooting the car, and then re-pairing the phone did not help. My Contacts still won't sync.
Strangely I can see 3 contacts, the other users of the car, my wife and my 2 sons, as well as "My Number"

Does anyone know how to get my contacts back.

Trying to contact Tesla about this has proven to be useless. I tried to chat via the site, but all I get is "We're connecting you with a Tesla expert..", and nobody ever shows up.


----------



## NR4P

WonkoTheSane said:


> The definition of insanity ...


Super buggy sw. If Apple did this users would scream.

Today I can send the texts w voice but received don't come through. And BT calling was working on and off today.

Touchscreen was black after charging at work today. 
Just drove with it black and it booted up on its own.

After all the resets decided to just wait until new sw in the weeks ahead.


----------



## msjulie

I know this sounds 'microsoft windows' but have you rebooted the car?


----------



## Abrasha Staszewski

I just received this from Tesla:

"Good afternoon Abrasha, this is Tesla service. We're reviewing your appointment request and wanted to inform you that we are experiencing problems with voice command system following the recent firmware update. These bugs are similar to the symptoms you're describing. At this time i would advise that there is no need to have your vehicle serviced. Our firmware team is working to resolve these bugs and you should see resolution in the next few firmware updates. There is no need to keep this appointment, you can delete it and continue using your vehicle. If this concern doesn't get solved in the next couple updates lets re-examine it then. Sound good?"


----------



## Abrasha Staszewski

msjulie said:


> I know this sounds 'microsoft windows' but have you rebooted the car?


Did you read my post? I said : "..., rebooting the car, ... " ;-)


----------



## orekart

I don't even care that the voice feature is only partially working but I did write this message using it so it must be working kind of sort of good


----------



## Abrasha Staszewski

Needsdecaf said:


> Please, someone, show me screen shots or a video of the texting support. Let a guy dream until he gets the update!


It doesn't work properly. You can listen to incoming messages, and you can dictate outgoing message. But you cannot send them once you have dictated them.

I scheduled a mobile appointment that was almost immediately cancelled by Tesla with the notice that the update has multiple bugs, and that I should revisit the issue after new updates have been pushed out. In the meantime all my contacts no longer sync, as well as multiple other issues I am having.

In the year and a half I have owned my Model 3 each update has been a small step in making this a better car. This update is by far the worst I have seen. What a dud.


----------



## littlD

orekart said:


> I don't even care that the voice feature is only partially working but I did write this message using it so it must be working kind of sort of good


Using the keyboard mic?


----------



## ibgeek

Abrasha Staszewski said:


> It doesn't work properly. You can listen to incoming messages, and you can dictate outgoing message. But you cannot send them once you have dictated them.
> 
> I scheduled a mobile appointment that was almost immediately cancelled by Tesla with the notice that the update has multiple bugs, and that I should revisit the issue after new updates have been pushed out. In the meantime all my contacts no longer sync, as well as multiple other issues I am having.
> 
> In the year and a half I have owned my Model 3 each update has been a small step in making this a better car. This update is by far the worst I have seen. What a dud.


Your car may be a dud, but mine works great. I don't have HW3.0 yet but all of the other than the missing visualizations, I have no issues what so ever.


----------



## ibgeek

Needsdecaf said:


> Please, someone, show me screen shots or a video of the texting support. Let a guy dream until he gets the update!


I believe Tesla Raj did a video on Youtube that shows it working. Enjoy!


----------



## Abrasha Staszewski

littlD said:


> Using the keyboard mic?


The keyboard mic icon shows up when you open the keyboard. AFAIK, the keyboard only shows up when you tap on navigation so you can enter a destination. Then tapping on the mic icon is redundant, because you can just hit the right steering wheel button and say "Navigate to ... ". So this part of the 40.50.1 update seems rather useless to me.


----------



## Kizzy

Abrasha Staszewski said:


> The keyboard mic icon shows up when you open the keyboard. AFAIK, the keyboard only shows up when you tap on navigation so you can enter a destination. Then tapping on the mic icon is redundant, because you can just hit the right steering wheel button and say "Navigate to ... ". So this part of the 40.50.1 update seems rather useless to me.


I find that voice dictation works better for getting directions than voice commands to get directions (if they work at all). Even though my voice commands are getting transcribed, Navigation hasn't been happening.

The keyboard also shows up for the web browser.


----------



## Ksb466

I found Camp mode handy while hand washing car. Can blast radio and leave ac off, while opening and closing doors many times. It keeps things from going on and off With the door opens. Also they have a cool camp graphic on the screen.


----------



## Sjohnson20

The voice commands are pretty good when they are working! I really like being able to change the wiper speed. It worked great today when it was raining on and off.

The text messaging seems to have issues still for me. I received a text but when I replied to it the reply went into an abyss somewhere and never went to the person I sent it to. It also didn’t show up on my phone that it was ever sent. I tried again and the same thing happened.


----------



## sduck

ig0p0g0 said:


> I'm focused on the important stuff, as usual.
> 
> TRAX is so laggy for me that it's unusable. Impossible to get a note where you want it, and it doesn't seem possible to edit the track.
> 
> I'm a line waiter and day one FSD adopter. Am I not entitled to compose decent music in my car?


Trax is a joke. Just a proof of concept currently, not actually usable. I'm waiting for that first youtube video of someone trying to explain how to use it, but not holding my breath. I've poked at the thing for way too long and can't get it to do anything, and I work with computerized music gear all the time.


----------



## ibgeek

Abrasha Staszewski said:


> I receives this from Tesla service about an hour ago:
> 
> "Our firmware team is working to resolve these bugs and you should see resolution in the next few firmware updates. There is no need to keep this appointment, you can delete it and continue using your vehicle. If this concern doesn't get solved in the next couple updates lets re-examine it then. Sound good?"


Not saying your wrong, just not having that issue.


----------



## sduck

Abrasha Staszewski said:


> I receives this from Tesla service about an hour ago:
> 
> "Our firmware team is working to resolve these bugs and you should see resolution in the next few firmware updates. There is no need to keep this appointment, you can delete it and continue using your vehicle. If this concern doesn't get solved in the next couple updates lets re-examine it then. Sound good?"


Could you please stop posting the same thing over and over?


----------



## StromTrooperM3

shmackers said:


> Still have not got this update. Have quadruple checked wifi. AP2.5, advanced software selected, purchased FSD...


Same. Rebooted a few times, made sure the car went to deep sleep on Christmas. Still nothing. Requested via the app they push it.

Can't get connected to WiFi at my girls house so hopefully tonight when I go home it might work as teslafi seems to be still reporting updates as I type this.

At least I'm not alone here. I usually get updates right away.....


----------



## shmackers

StromTrooperM3 said:


> Same. Rebooted a few times, made sure the car went to deep sleep on Christmas. Still nothing. Requested via the app they push it.
> 
> Can't get connected to WiFi at my girls house so hopefully tonight when I go home it might work as teslafi seems to be still reporting updates as I type this.
> 
> At least I'm not alone here. I usually get updates right away.....


Did the hard reboot and then it showed up right away! Disconnect charger, hold down both scroll wheels and brake until the T blacks out anD comes back on.


----------



## gary in NY

I deleted my old phone key and then added a new phone key yesterday to get my phone key to work (iPhone 7). This was successful. However, today I have no BT phone capabilities, and the phone will not pair with the car. I just get the endless spinning wheel of death when setting up the connection. Did a hard reboot with no luck. Can't try the text functions, and no voice commands work either. I don't care that much about the voice commands, but loosing the phone connectivity is a problem. The phone key still works though. I may retry the whole process again tomorrow.


----------



## JasonF

NR4P said:


> Super buggy sw. If Apple did this users would scream.


They have! And they did.

An important data point missing from the posts of people who are having trouble is which software they upgraded _from_. Tesla has that info already, so it won't matter to them, but it might help posters who come to this thread see if they can expect problems or not (if they match the same pattern).

Also, for those of you having Bluetooth related issues, it's possible the update erased the data token used to pair the Bluetooth device. The Model 3 uses _two_ tokens, one for data pairing, and one for key pairing. So even if the key works perfectly, the device might not be able to connect to play music or share contacts. This is a common issue with Bluetooth in multiple kinds of cars, so it's probably just because the protocol kind of sucks. The only fix is to delete the Bluetooth device in the car, _and_ the car from the device, and then re-pair it.


----------



## StromTrooperM3

shmackers said:


> Did the hard reboot and then it showed up right away! Disconnect charger, hold down both scroll wheels and brake until the T blacks out anD comes back on.


Tried it again for the 4th time tonight. Still no luck. Maybe I'll hear back from service 🤷🏽‍♂️ but I've been waiting over a month for another issue so........


----------



## SoFlaModel3

StromTrooperM3 said:


> I'll take that bet





ibgeek said:


> You are are correct. The only thing I would change is that I believe that the hardware updates will only be mostly done in Q1. A lot is going to happen fairly fast in 2020 for Tesla. Going to be a good year for owners for sure.


Elon said all along we would get HW3 upgrades "when we need it".

Of course my original interpretation of that was that we'd have the hardware in time for the first exclusive functionality.

Elon meant we would have it when the car was acting on the information and not just displaying the visualization.

I have every expectation this will happen in Q1 as he mentioned!


----------



## ig0p0g0

I haven’t seen this mentioned, might have missed it...but voice commands with audio now work like they used to...request a song and it starts playing (at least with spötify). This is exciting. Strangely now the radio won’t play with voice commands, but that’s much less of a hassle.


----------



## WonkoTheSane

NR4P said:


> If Apple did this users would scream.


For sure Tesla puts out software and uses us a debuggers, and I have had s/w releases that have been frustrating, so I get it. 
I wonder, did everyone get this update, including those without "Advanced" software downloads?


----------



## MelindaV

John said:


> FWIW, you don't have to pull over to reboot.
> 
> As the MCU reboots you can't hear the turn signals (though they still work normally) and can't see the speedometer and navigation-but the driving functions (including AP) work uninterrupted. If you are on a familiar route and aren't stressed, you can just do it as you drive.


at least 3 separate times, when rebooting while parked, my frunk has unlatched in the reboot process. Since it first did this, I've not attempted to reboot while moving. Not worth the risk. 
if what is acting up are things truly needed to assist in driving, pull over and reboot. If it is just MCU things, wait until the next time you stop.


----------



## MelindaV

WonkoTheSane said:


> For sure Tesla puts out software and uses us a debuggers, and I have had s/w releases that have been frustrating, so I get it.
> I wonder, did everyone get this update, including those without "Advanced" software downloads?


they gave everyone the option for "get the software as quickly as possible", or "wait for a later release". if people chose the first option, they should be expecting some glitches and not complaining about it. if they don't like the glitches, move the slider over to the delayed option.


----------



## gary in NY

JasonF said:


> They have! And they did.
> 
> An important data point missing from the posts of people who are having trouble is which software they upgraded _from_. Tesla has that info already, so it won't matter to them, but it might help posters who come to this thread see if they can expect problems or not (if they match the same pattern).
> 
> Also, for those of you having Bluetooth related issues, it's possible the update erased the data token used to pair the Bluetooth device. The Model 3 uses _two_ tokens, one for data pairing, and one for key pairing. So even if the key works perfectly, the device might not be able to connect to play music or share contacts. This is a common issue with Bluetooth in multiple kinds of cars, so it's probably just because the protocol kind of sucks. The only fix is to delete the Bluetooth device in the car, _and_ the car from the device, and then re-pair it.


Yeah, one time a FCPX update from Apple deleted all my media. Took an Apple tech a day to straighten it all out. I almost missed my project deadline as a result. Good thing I had a backup routine in place. So, welcome to the world controlled by software (no matter who is the author).

I'm going to try your suggestion on restoring my BT functions tonight. One question, how does the car show on your phone? I don't see anything that looks like the car in the BT device list. Didn't it show as "Tesla Model 3" or something? I'm assuming that the last item on the list is the car.


----------



## Skione65

Ksb466 said:


> I found Camp mode handy while hand washing car. Can blast radio and leave ac off, while opening and closing doors many times. It keeps things from going on and off With the door opens. Also they have a cool camp graphic on the screen.


@Ksb466,

Is Camp Mode in the app or a 'slider' on the in car screen? How to activate it.

Ski


----------



## GDN

Skione65 said:


> @Ksb466,
> 
> Is Camp Mode in the app or a 'slider' on the in car screen? How to activate it.
> 
> Ski


Access the same as dog mode. Car must be in park - touch the HVAC fan icon and the selections will be along the top of the graphic and only available in the car.


----------



## Shadow LI

Anyone ride notice that texts will not read aloud if navigation has a destination? Saw message on screen but car wouldn’t read out loud. Canceled destination and came back immediately.


----------



## Skione65

Shadow LI said:


> Anyone ride notice that texts will not read aloud if navigation has a destination? Saw message on screen but car wouldn't read out loud. Canceled destination and came back immediately.


 File a Bug Report? Or maybe that's the intended design....though I can't imagine.

Ski


----------



## JasonF

> I'm going to try your suggestion on restoring my BT functions tonight. One question, how does the car show on your phone? I don't see anything that looks like the car in the BT device list. Didn't it show as "Tesla Model 3" or something? I'm assuming that the last item on the list is the car.


If it has a corrupted token, that's about what it might look like.


----------



## Needsdecaf

Shadow LI said:


> Anyone ride notice that texts will not read aloud if navigation has a destination? Saw message on screen but car wouldn't read out loud. Canceled destination and came back immediately.


Nope, have not noticed this at all. Had a destination set yesterday on an hour's drive and got plenty of texts.

My beef is that it doesn't pause / mute the audio playing when it reads them!!!

FWIW, my Nav volume is set to mute.


----------



## JasonF

MelindaV said:


> at least 3 separate times, when rebooting while parked, my frunk has unlatched in the reboot process. Since it first did this, I've not attempted to reboot while moving. Not worth the risk.
> if what is acting up are things truly needed to assist in driving, pull over and reboot. If it is just MCU things, wait until the next time you stop.


I had something almost as scary happen once. Right after I rebooted one time, I got an alert that the automatic emergency braking system has been disabled, and I need to contact service. The error went away after a minute or so, but it made me concerned about the possibility of at least a _temporary _cascading failure happening during reboot. Imagine if you reboot while going 70 mph, and when the screen wakes up again, you get an erroneous alert to pull over immediately because the car is shutting down. And then you wonder how much time you _really _have, because the car might have encountered a problem mid-reboot. So don't do that. Really.

Usually if I reboot while moving, I'm inside my neighborhood, or the office park near work, and I take my time leaving to make sure the MCU is fully booted. So if something ridiculous happens like the frunk or trunk popping open, I can stop and shut it. No one will notice one _more_ car stopping on the side of the road in either place.


----------



## Ksb466

GDN said:


> Access the same as dog mode. Car must be in park - touch the HVAC fan icon and the selections will be along the top of the graphic and only available in the car.


Or, now you can simply say " turn camp mode on/off". 
If camp mode also suppressed open/close of charge door while active it could multi-purpose as camp/car wash/party mode.


----------



## Mike

melmartin said:


> Voice commands working at 99%+ success rate for me today.. servers are less strained or Tesla has managed more bandwidth. Whatever the reason, I'm much happier (if it lasts).


My Mobile Ranger re-pushed this update to me today and now (voice commands) seem to work really well.

Two observations regarding "bugs" still present:

1. I drive with my odometer card always visible (it's just "my thing") and after using any voice command, the odometer card has been swept aside and i have to re-swipe it back into view. I know I could tell the car to move the odometer card back into view, but I shouldn't have to.....and it would interrupt the music ; and

2. My incoming text messages are (correctly) read out to me but I still cannot reply in kind. I'm able to create a voice to text reply that shows up as correct text in the "card" area, but "tap to send" (either the steering wheel button or the card itself) does nothing. I have to swipe that card down and out of the way to get out of that loop.

---------------------------------------

On a 3.5 hour drive today, auto wipers still do not see salt spray on a grey sky background.

But at least I can tell the wipers to come on now .

Edit: I did try things like "adjust car following distance to seven" and all the system heard was "seven" and I got a warning that that was too cold for the HVAC.....so it would turn the HVAC to low.


----------



## Mike

NR4P said:


> Today I can send the texts w voice but received don't come through.


My situation is exactly out of phase with your situation.

I can receive texts and even compose a reply, but I am unable to reply.


----------



## Mike

gary in NY said:


> I deleted my old phone key and then added a new phone key yesterday to get my phone key to work (iPhone 7). This was successful. However, today I have no BT phone capabilities, and the phone will not pair with the car. I just get the endless spinning wheel of death when setting up the connection. Did a hard reboot with no luck. Can't try the text functions, and no voice commands work either. I don't care that much about the voice commands, but loosing the phone connectivity is a problem. The phone key still works though. I may retry the whole process again tomorrow.


Perhaps get your update re-pushed to you.

Mine was repushed to me today and I can once again use the microphone in the car for things like "bug report".


----------



## Mike

gary in NY said:


> One question, how does the car show on your phone?


On my iPhone 6, my car is listed EXACTLY how I named it....so I would expect you should see your car's name in your list.


----------



## MelindaV

@Mike - have you turned on the Sync option for text messages within the bluetooth menu?


----------



## HedonismBot

So I am currently running 2019.40.50.1 and when I was testing out the text message feature I was able to send text without any issue. But when I get a reply and have the car read it out to me it reads all the coding that comes with the text. You can see in the pic below the card that popped up when I got a text. All those letters and numbers and dashes were read out by my car.


----------



## Reliev

Shadow LI said:


> Anyone ride notice that texts will not read aloud if navigation has a destination? Saw message on screen but car wouldn't read out loud. Canceled destination and came back immediately.


I was doing it today I even say go to the grocery store name. Is that what you mean? If so might be your setting, do you have navigation on to say things? Mine is always muted unless its a long road trip.


----------



## Reliev

HedonismBot said:


> So I am currently running 2019.40.50.1 and when I was testing out the text message feature I was able to send text without any issue. But when I get a reply and have the car read it out to me it reads all the coding that comes with the text. You can see in the pic below the card that popped up when I got a text. All those letters and numbers and dashes were read out by my car.
> View attachment 31429


seems like a Bluetooth hash have you tried removing your phone or repairing it?


----------



## Mike

MelindaV said:


> @Mike - have you turned on the Sync option for text messages within the bluetooth menu?


Yes I have.

I also selected the chime option as well.


----------



## msjulie

Abrasha Staszewski said:


> Did you read my post? I said : "..., rebooting the car, ... " ;-)


Sorry guess I missed it! Maybe it needs N more times?


----------



## HedonismBot

Reliev said:


> seems like a Bluetooth hash have you tried removing your phone or repairing it?


No I haven't tried anything besides doing a bug report. I'll play around with it more tomorrow when I have time and report back.


----------



## Kizzy

Okay. I’ve had more time with this release and it’s been buggy for me too. Not as bad as the spontaneous reboot release (thank goodness).

AP is definitely swervyer. Making last minute exits from the freeway, being too gentle on curves to the right and then needing to make greater corrections that then require another correction. It feels like sharp inputs were given more curves but that smoothing is making the driving less precise.

I started a podcast (paused on my phone) from my car using the left wheel button. When i tried to pause again, the car did not respond to wheel button nor UI button presses—I had to pause from my phone.

Trying to submit a bug report about the previous issue also failed because voice commands haven’t been working for me (yes, I actually had internet this time). Only one word of my report was captured and “bug report” was not part of that recognized string.

I should try rebooting.

What does work: I can still get into my car using my phone and audio does stream via Bluetooth.


----------



## VoltageDrop

Briefly did a search and didn't seem to find anything related to the following issue (I may have missed it and if so...sorry)

I am trying to download the latest update.....both the car and app say it is available but I need to be connected to WIFI to download.....the kicker is that I AM connected to WIFI....verified it through browser activity....youtube....etc......I tried resetting the router....resetting the car....forgetting my network from the car and repairing it....but no luck.....not sure what else to do....put in an email to Tesla about it.....asked them to push the update to me again.....currently awaiting their reply....of note...never had any problems with updating till this time around....anyone have this issue?...and if so....what did you do to resolve it? any info is much appreciated......


----------



## Hugh_Jassol

HedonismBot said:


> So I am currently running 2019.40.50.1 and when I was testing out the text message feature I was able to send text without any issue. But when I get a reply and have the car read it out to me it reads all the coding that comes with the text. You can see in the pic below the card that popped up when I got a text. All those letters and numbers and dashes were read out by my car.
> View attachment 31429


It's RCS messaging on android. You can temporarily disable RCS messaging until this gets fixed


----------



## HedonismBot

Hugh_Jassol said:


> It's RCS messaging on android. You can temporarily disable RCS messaging until this gets fixed


So I went out to my car and it was working fine now. I didn't do anything to fix it.


----------



## Hugh_Jassol

HedonismBot said:


> So I went out to my car and it was working fine now. I didn't do anything to fix it.


Both you and the person texting you would need to have RCS turned on (called advanced messaging) AND be using the Android Messaging app in order for it to have an issue. Are you sure that was the case?


----------



## Jason Krellner

Hugh_Jassol said:


> Both you and the person texting you would need to have RCS turned on (called advanced messaging) AND be using the Android Messaging app in order for it to have an issue. Are you sure that was the case?


I've both received and sent RCS text messages through the new functionality using the scroll wheel with a recipient I know also uses RCS (myself). Consistently works fine for me.


----------



## garsh

Jason Krellner said:


> I've both received and sent RCS text messages through the new functionality using the scroll wheel with a recipient I know also uses RCS (myself). Consistently works fine for me.


Strange. I've done the same, and it's messed up for me.

Maybe the car needs to sleep or reboot in order for it to start working correctly? I'll try again tomorrow.


----------



## gary in NY

My earlier reported issues with phone connectivity now seem resolved. I deleted the phone key and phone from the car, and any trace of the car from the phone. Connected the phone first, then the phone key. No magic here. This looks like it was a user error-my not following the directions .


----------



## Abrasha Staszewski

Another small issue, not very important but this function is mentioned in the release notes for this update. "Additionally, if you have favorite phone contacts on your device, you can now easily access them from the Favorites tab of the Phone app." 

As before I can see all my contacts as they are synced with my phone. I thought you should also be able to see a "Favorites" tab in the phone app. I don't see this tab, but my wife sees it when her phone is connected to the car. I have an iPhone 8 she has a 7.

Have others had this issue? If yes, is there a fix for this?


----------



## Mike

Minor issue/observation: once I open the owners manual I want to use the search function.

However, every time I touch the little magnifying glass symbol, the space for inserting a word of interest only shows for half a second and then disappears.

I have to manually drill down into a subsection before the "look for" function works.

Bug report sent.


----------



## Kizzy

Abrasha Staszewski said:


> Another small issue, not very important but this function is mentioned in the release notes for this update. "Additionally, if you have favorite phone contacts on your device, you can now easily access them from the Favorites tab of the Phone app."
> 
> As before I can see all my contacts as they are synced with my phone. I thought you should also be able to see a "Favorites" tab in the phone app. I don't see this tab, but my wife sees it when her phone is connected to the car. I have an iPhone 8 she has a 7.
> 
> Have others had this issue? If yes, is there a fix for this?


I have favorites on my phone (an iPhone 6S on iOS 12). I haven't updated my Tesla app (and therefore can't enable text syncing). Are you using the latest Tesla app?


----------



## Mesprit87

My wife doesn't swear... but she does in my car...
Phantom braking is not getting better, hard brake with red steering and warning on TACC yesterday (on a road I've travelled before). 
After a year, any waiting to upload any software wouldn't have fixed this. 


MelindaV said:


> they gave everyone the option for "get the software as quickly as possible", or "wait for a later release". if people chose the first option, they should be expecting some glitches and not complaining about it. if they don't like the glitches, move the slider over to the delayed option.


I don't call this a glitch anymore, hiding behind beta has to end eventually. 
Anyway, I'm glad I don't have a heart condition


----------



## Steve Martin

Mesprit87 said:


> My wife doesn't swear... but she does in my car...
> Phantom braking is not getting better, hard brake with red steering and warning on TACC yesterday (on a road I've travelled before).
> After a year, any waiting to upload any software wouldn't have fixed this.
> 
> I don't call this a glitch anymore, hiding behind beta has to end eventually.
> Anyway, I'm glad I don't have a heart condition


Agree. This is the biggest issue with the car. I don't swear much either, but I do when it brakes when I don't want it to. My issue is when someone makes a turn in front of me and there's plenty of room between my car and theirs, the car still brakes hard versus I wouldn't have brakes at all. I'm hoping this behavior improves with HW3.


----------



## MelindaV

As I've said many times before, I do not get any un-expected phantom braking at all in my car. any and every time AP has braked it was because of adjacent cars, something in the traffic pattern (IE, slowing at a curve or normally congested area - so picking up on prior traffic patterns even if no others are slowing at that time).
not saying your car or your roads are not having phantom braking issues, but it certainly is not everywhere on every car.

The one (as in single ONE) phantom braking I have experienced driving any Tesla was in a Turo Model 3 in August 2018. wide open freeway on a sunny day, with any nearby cars behind me. Nothing adjacent or ahead for some distance. So I know it happens and on this one particular day witnessed it, but have never in my own car (that Turo rental was an early VIN 5,70x also).


----------



## FRC

MelindaV said:


> As I've said many times before, I do not get any un-expected phantom braking at all in my car. any and every time AP has braked it was because of adjacent cars, something in the traffic pattern (IE, slowing at a curve or normally congested area - so picking up on prior traffic patterns even if no others are slowing at that time).
> not saying your car or your roads are not having phantom braking issues, but it certainly is not everywhere on every car.
> 
> The one (as in single ONE) phantom braking I have experienced driving any Tesla was in a Turo Model 3 in August 2018. wide open freeway on a sunny day, with any nearby cars behind me. Nothing adjacent or ahead for some distance. So I know it happens and on this one particular day witnessed it, but have never in my own car (that Turo rental was an early VIN 5,70x also).


I have to agree with you @MelindaV. Phantom braking is a non-issue for me also. I recall one serious incident more than a year ago while going under an overpass. Since then any unexplained braking has been infrequent and minor. When these minor braking events happen, it seems to me that the car is being uncertain and over-cautious of it's surroundings. It might slow by only 2-3 mph, but that sudden decel feels much more drastic and can still be alarming.

As for the over-cautious slowing for cross traffic, in 45k miles the CAR has trained ME to be ready. These incidents are much improved from last year, but the car still slows when a normal driver wouldn't. I now overide such slowing with manual acceleration, mindlessly. While we don't have to steer, brake, or accelerate in many situations in these cars; we do, currently, have to be ready to overide the car with manual steering, braking, or acceleration.

I think that each of us has to decide whether we can live with TACC functions as they currently work, or if we'll leave them off for now and wait for more acceptable iterations. As long as someone in the fleet is using these functions, they will continue to improve mile by mile.


----------



## Jason Krellner

Mesprit87 said:


> My wife doesn't swear... but she does in my car...
> Phantom braking is not getting better, hard brake with red steering and warning on TACC yesterday (on a road I've travelled before).
> After a year, any waiting to upload any software wouldn't have fixed this.
> 
> I don't call this a glitch anymore, hiding behind beta has to end eventually.
> Anyway, I'm glad I don't have a heart condition





Steve Martin said:


> Agree. This is the biggest issue with the car. I don't swear much either, but I do when it brakes when I don't want it to. My issue is when someone makes a turn in front of me and there's plenty of room between my car and theirs, the car still brakes hard versus I wouldn't have brakes at all. I'm hoping this behavior improves with HW3.


Totally agree. I've experienced both true "phantom" braking (i.e., not caused by ANYTHING happening on the road) and the unnecessary "holy crap" braking when a car turns in front of me (i.e., a situation where I would not have applied any braking). To add on top of it, the last time the unnecessary braking occurred, the car also bleeped at me. I, too, am glad I don't have a heart condition.



MelindaV said:


> As I've said many times before, I do not get any un-expected phantom braking at all in my car. any and every time AP has braked it was because of adjacent cars, something in the traffic pattern (IE, slowing at a curve or normally congested area - so picking up on prior traffic patterns even if no others are slowing at that time).
> not saying your car or your roads are not having phantom braking issues, but it certainly is not everywhere on every car.
> 
> The one (as in single ONE) phantom braking I have experienced driving any Tesla was in a Turo Model 3 in August 2018. wide open freeway on a sunny day, with any nearby cars behind me. Nothing adjacent or ahead for some distance. So I know it happens and on this one particular day witnessed it, but have never in my own car (that Turo rental was an early VIN 5,70x also).


The Turo observation is an interesting one. I, too, rented a Model 3 through Turo in Colorado and experienced two gut-wrenching completely surprising phantom braking events. Sunny, dry, etc. - car did a HARD brake for no reason at all. I ended up not using AP/TACC for the remainder of the trip. I did not note the VIN.

To me, the car's "intelligence" has a long way to go before FSD is even close to a reality. Setting aside all the really tricky/unexpected things that come up driving on city streets, if the car can't even handle a car turning left in front of it without totally freaking out, this whole thing is dead in the water and will only ever be worth anything on highways.

All part of the reason I wish I had passed on FSD and gotten a performance model instead...


----------



## DocScott

In general, I haven't experienced much true phantom braking (as opposed to over-cautious braking). But on one of the last v9 firmware versions I experienced quite a bit of it. That version didn't have any more than the usual number of TOO reports of phantom braking, and every version seems to have some people saying "it's much worse now!"

That's convinced me that some (not all) of the problem probably has something to do with failed/poor calibration after a firmware update, or similar installation issues. In other words, there's nothing wrong with a particular firmware update per se, but sometimes the update process goes awry. The same goes for some of the other problems that show up for some people on some firmware updates, seemingly at random: backup camera failures, sound system problems, etc.. Problems that occur with the update process are probably fixable (e.g. a more robust self-test routine after updates), and I hope Tesla is working on them.

The other explanation I've seen people on this forum give is that it's just particular combinations of hardware, firmware, and settings that trigger the problem, and that's why it seems to afflict people randomly. That's possible too, but my hunch is at least some of the issues have to do with the installation process and subsequent recalibration.

For people who have true phantom braking that extends over multiple firmware updates, I suspect a hardware problem or a corrupted register that gets carried over from firmware update to firmware update. I don't think people should accept that as "just the way it is"--it deserves a service call.

Summary of how I react to phantom braking issues:

--Out-of-the blue, frequent phantom braking: I wait for the next update to see if it corrects itself

--Out-of-the-blue, frequent phantom braking that doesn't correct itself with a new update and isn't reported as unusually widespread by other owners: this hasn't happened to me, but if it did I would make a service request

--Overly-cautious braking, braking caused by incorrect speed-limit problems, mild to moderate phantom braking on a particular stretch of road (perhaps due to "memory" of previous owners encountering traffic jams there): that's just the way it is. I expect these kinds of problems to gradually get better with new firmware updates, although sometimes there might be a two steps forward, one step back kind of pattern.


----------



## tivoboy

I know this was a BIG update and a lot of stuff was included, but the EAP on highways took a step backwards for me, with drifting between the lanes outer markings and not managing turns on a highway too well, so much so that as others have commented I ended up turning it off since I was concerned any police officer might thing I was intoxicated and pull me over. I think there is some needed work here that should correct it since this is the first time a WHILE that I have noticed this behaviour


----------



## garsh

I still experience phantom braking. It's usually due to overpasses or overhead road signs, and usually when the overpass or sign appears "lower" due to me cresting a hill before it.


----------



## Mesprit87

MelindaV said:


> The one (as in single ONE) phantom braking I have experienced driving any Tesla was in a Turo Model 3 in August 2018. wide open freeway on a sunny day, with any nearby cars behind me. Nothing adjacent or ahead for some distance. So I know it happens and on this one particular day witnessed it, but have never in my own car (that Turo rental was an early VIN 5,70x also).


Lucky you


garsh said:


> I still experience phantom braking. It's usually due to overpasses or overhead road signs, and usually when the overpass or sign appears "lower" due to me cresting a hill before it.


I agree fully with you, in my case, probably an overhead road sign added to low sun. 
It's just the suddenness, on a road where it never did it again.
Even after these comments, I find FSD to be less annoying due mostly to the reduced time it flashes before moving lanes (I know, not due to this rev but the last one)


----------



## GDN

I'll also note that I've had no phantom braking from since it was fixed a few releases back. I had quit using TACC due to the braking. I'm sure it can happen in some situations, but mine has been cleared up. I get a little ping ponging back and forth, but it's not bad. I know this is just like any other release, it will get tweaked. Just think back where we were 12 months ago.

Thank you for being a beta tester.


----------



## tencate

garsh said:


> I still experience phantom braking. It's usually due to overpasses or overhead road signs, and usually when the overpass or sign appears "lower" due to me cresting a hill before it.


Almost exactly matches my experiences as well. Didn't an earlier version of autopilot mistake a truck crossing the road for an overpass? I believe the driver was killed in that incident. Makes sense that Tesla is being overly cautious. Every time I get a phantom braking incident I try and imagine the images the cameras are seeing. Of course, that doesn't explain those of you who have it happen randomly, it's just not been my experience (with over 50k miles). My wife hates it when it does it too BTW.
https://www.wired.com/story/teslas-latest-autopilot-death-looks-like-prior-crash/


----------



## Reliev

Hugh_Jassol said:


> It's RCS messaging on android. You can temporarily disable RCS messaging until this gets fixed


i have rcs on android never have this issue I do have a lag issue though.


----------



## Reliev

MelindaV said:


> As I've said many times before, I do not get any un-expected phantom braking at all in my car. any and every time AP has braked it was because of adjacent cars, something in the traffic pattern (IE, slowing at a curve or normally congested area - so picking up on prior traffic patterns even if no others are slowing at that time).
> not saying your car or your roads are not having phantom braking issues, but it certainly is not everywhere on every car.
> 
> The one (as in single ONE) phantom braking I have experienced driving any Tesla was in a Turo Model 3 in August 2018. wide open freeway on a sunny day, with any nearby cars behind me. Nothing adjacent or ahead for some distance. So I know it happens and on this one particular day witnessed it, but have never in my own car (that Turo rental was an early VIN 5,70x also).


I havent had it in a while either i had it a few months ago in this same spot maybe ive been lucky.


----------



## NightStorm

Long Ranger said:


> Did you tap the Bluetooth icon in the car and enable Sync Messages? It won't show incoming messages until you do that.


Stupid me, I missed that. Thanks!


----------



## NightStorm

Sjohnson20 said:


> I really like being able to change the wiper speed. .


Me too. I went to a car wash and as the suds started so did the auto wipers. I brought up the wiper menu to turn them off, would have had to poke around to find out how to do that, then realized I could just say "Wipers off". Worked great and saved time.


----------



## NightStorm

John said:


> FWIW, you don't have to pull over to reboot.
> 
> As the MCU reboots you can't hear the turn signals (though they still work normally) and can't see the speedometer and navigation-but the driving functions (including AP) work uninterrupted. If you are on a familiar route and aren't stressed, you can just do it as you drive.


Interesting, tells me I've been doing it wrong. Press and hold only the scroll wheels? I've been also holding the brake.


----------



## NightStorm

Mesprit87 said:


> My wife doesn't swear... but she does in my car...


My wife hates hates hates my car, says she'd never buy a Tesla. Partly my fault (?), I am always engaging autopilot when I drive. The red steering wheel on the screen, the screeming alert sound, the phantom braking, the lane wandering, the sudden aborts during lane change, the surprise jerk of the steering wheel dropping out of autopilot, all have given her many an unwelcome start. I think there needs to be some passenger-factors engineering on many of these alerts. I am grateful that they provided a disable for the lane departure warning (was mandatory on in the original) as it was a real pain for the kinds of roads I'm on.


----------



## ibgeek

NightStorm said:


> My wife hates hates hates my car, says she'd never buy a Tesla. Partly my fault (?), I am always engaging autopilot when I drive. The red steering wheel on the screen, the screaming alert sound, the phantom braking, the lane wandering, the sudden aborts during lane change, the surprise jerk of the steering wheel dropping out of autopilot, all have given her many an unwelcome start. I think there needs to be some passenger-factors engineering on many of these alerts. I am grateful that they provided a disable for the lane departure warning (was mandatory on in the original) as it was a real pain for the kinds of roads I'm on.


Just drove from SF To Vegas and back 99% NOA and it was flawless. Honestly AP on my car has been nearly perfect for months with one exception right after v10 was installed but that issue was patched within 2 days. I haven't had a lane change abort, phantom break or anything like that in so long that I don't even think about it anymore.

If your car is truly that bad, you need to get it serviced. Seriously there is something very wrong with it.


----------



## Hugh_Jassol

Abrasha Staszewski said:


> Another small issue, not very important but this function is mentioned in the release notes for this update. "Additionally, if you have favorite phone contacts on your device, you can now easily access them from the Favorites tab of the Phone app."
> 
> As before I can see all my contacts as they are synced with my phone. I thought you should also be able to see a "Favorites" tab in the phone app. I don't see this tab, but my wife sees it when her phone is connected to the car. I have an iPhone 8 she has a 7.
> 
> Have others had this issue? If yes, is there a fix for this?


Are you both using ios13?


----------



## Hugh_Jassol

Kizzy said:


> I have favorites on my phone (an iPhone 6S on iOS 12). I haven't updated my Tesla app (and therefore can't enable text syncing). Are you using the latest Tesla app?


The Tesla app on the phone doesn't matter. They are talking about the phone app in the car (from app tray)


----------



## Kizzy

Hugh_Jassol said:


> The Tesla app on the phone doesn't matter. They are talking about the phone app in the car (from app tray)


The Favorites option is missing from my Tesla phone app (in my car). I was postulating at reasons for why that is the case. Obviously the car needs to get your favorites list in some manner.


----------



## gary in NY

Today was the first time the auto wipers worked without any manual overrides. This was both before and after dark. They were not perfectly timed, but unlike prior drives, they did wipe before I could press the button. Needs to be a bit quicker though, especially after dark with ongoing traffic. Up to a "C" from an "F".


----------



## garsh

ibgeek said:


> Just drove from SF To Vegas and back 99% NOA and it was flawless.


It's not too surprising that AP works well on California roads in California weather. Tesla needs to sample a LOT more scenarios in the North East, and train that NN to deal with them better. All the hills, bridges, and overhead signs - not to mention our rainy weather - just seem to confuse the hell out of it. I had it brake again this morning on my commute for absolutely no good reason - other than the fact that I was approaching an overhead sign. In the dark. In the rain.









(also, WTF Google, did you forget to tighten down the camera to the top of the car, or do you now have motorcycles taking these street view images?)


----------



## Mike

Yesterday, a 3.5 hour freeway trip in moderate rain and fog.

Ping-ponging is bad as well as unstable on curves.

Many times I had to bias the pressure on the steering wheel to calm it down.

Had a few aborted lane changes.

Had a few slow downs because of locking onto slower traffic to my right.

.........and voice commands did not understand "bug report" until a scroll wheel reset was done.

Only real improvement to the driving experience with this update IMO: I am able to tell the wipers exactly what I want them to do as the auto setting can't deal with rain and a monochromatic white sky.


----------



## Mesprit87

Just imagine having to figure out how they translated the commands in french...I barely use them because I don't know them, not that I didn't try.
I just might end up switching language to english, but it's just against my principles


----------



## Mike

Mesprit87 said:


> Just imagine having to figure out how they translated the commands in french...I barely use them because I don't know them, not that I didn't try.
> I just might end up switching language to english, but it's just against my principles


I find wondering what the key or trick words needed to make Internet searches successful in english a challenge.

I can only imagine what two layers of possible losses in translation does to add to the fun.


----------



## Hugh_Jassol

Kizzy said:


> The Favorites option is missing from my Tesla phone app (in my car). I was postulating at reasons for why that is the case. Obviously the car needs to get your favorites list in some manner.


Ah ok. Well, still, the Tesla app on your phone still has nothing to do with it 

This is a just a feature of the "phone interface" standard over bluetooth. The phone can optionally transfer your phone's contacts and favorites lists to the car. It works in most cars with bluetooth phone capability for the past ~10+ years (even in my old 2007 acura).


----------



## ibgeek

garsh said:


> It's not too surprising that AP works well on California roads in California weather. Tesla needs to sample a LOT more scenarios in the North East, and train that NN to deal with them better. All the hills, bridges, and overhead signs - not to mention our rainy weather - just seem to confuse the hell out of it. I had it brake again this morning on my commute for absolutely no good reason - other than the fact that I was approaching an overhead sign. In the dark. In the rain.
> 
> View attachment 31477
> 
> (also, WTF Google, did you forget to tighten down the camera to the top of the car, or do you now have motorcycles taking these street view images?)


I get what your saying, but wanted to point out that a large part of my trip was in this:


----------



## Jarettp

My car does not leave the passing lane on its own nearly as much anymore. Has anyone else seen similar behavior?


----------



## iChris93

Jarettp said:


> My car does not leave the passing lane on its own nearly as much anymore. Has anyone else seen similar behavior?


Noticed it on my last non-50.x build.


----------



## Jarettp

iChris93 said:


> Noticed it on my last non-50.x build.


It's kind of an issue. I find myself having to manually manage this almost every time when someone is trying to pass me.


----------



## Mike

Jarettp said:


> It's kind of an issue. I find myself having to manually manage this almost every time when someone is trying to pass me.


I completed another 3.5 hour freeway trip today (2nd one in two days with V10.x and using NOA).

With only two lanes, I prefer to drive in the right lane and only use the left lane for passing.

This latest software iteration ALWAYS wants me to move to the left lane when approaching any interchange, regardless of the amount of traffic in the area.

In busy areas, it would make sense to preemptively move into the left lane if there is traffic merging ahead.....but even at lonely middle-of-nowhere interchanges where there is NO other traffic, this software wants to shift to the left under all conditions.

In other words, it is shifting to the left lane with no context of when that would be logical to do, it is simply defaulting to do that at every interchange.

Often, I have to de-select NOA for that 30 second period so it stops nagging me to change lanes.

----------------------------------

Ping-ponging: is really bad when the car is approaching an exit split-off or entrance merge.

Once the lane dimensions widen, the car starts to hunt (typical for past 19 months).

However, upon re-acquiring the nominal lane dimension after the exit split/entrance merge, the "race to the lane center" causes such an oscillation that I am continually de-coupling from NOA to maintain a smooth, lane centered driving pattern.

The NOA oscillations are precluding passenger comfort in any of these exit/merge areas.

-------------------------------------

Context for "firm" NOA lane changes that are also recent with 10.x: in heavy Toronto traffic, they make total sense.

NOA lane shifting is as firm as I would do manually whilst dealing with a constant parade of vehicles in the lane I wish to enter.

However, in light or nil traffic, there is NO need for these "firm" NOA lane changes.

-------------------------------------

With heavy rain and fog just after sunset, the autopilot system did the whole "loud alarm, red steering wheel, giving control back to the driver" thing three times (over a 20 minute period) this afternoon.

I've never had it happen with this amount of repeats prior to V10.x.

-------------------------------------

TL;DR: too much ping-ponging, no context for firm lane changes, no context for moving to the left lane, autopilot too quick to give up in marginal weather compared to V9.x


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## garsh

Found another bug.

After having shut down my car, I was trying to see if it was still unable to correctly read a received RCS text message (no, still buggy). During that time, the Navigation voice decided to tell me my next upcoming turn, even though I've had the navigation voice turned off since day one. But it seemed to turn itself back off after it was done with trying to read my text message.


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## MelindaV

on the drive home last night (just prior to downloading & installing 40.50.5) I had a weird/unexpected NoA issue.
I have NoA set to require the driver use the turn signal to confirm a suggested lane change. 
Right where 2 freeways merge together, I was in the 2nd of 4 lanes (the left of the two coming from the freeway I had been on with the remaining to left lanes the freeway I was merging onto). traffic was backed up on the freeway I was merging onto and planned to stay in the 2nd lane I currently was in that was still moving slightly faster than the nearly stopped leftmost lanes.
Right after the four lanes were all together, without the blue flashing screen or me touching the turn signal, the left turn signal came on and the car immediately started to move into a gap in the next lane to the left. I disengaged auto steer to stay in the 2nd lane. 
I checked the AP screen, and it was still set to require turn signal confirmation.


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## John

NightStorm said:


> Interesting, tells me I've been doing it wrong. Press and hold only the scroll wheels? I've been also holding the brake.


Holding the brake has never had an effect during steering wheel reboots in Model 3.

There are two types of reboots: steering wheel and Power Off in the Safety & Security options. When you do the full Power Off, you have to NOT touch the brake or anything else for a few minutes to let it fully power down.


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## Kizzy

Jarettp said:


> My car does not leave the passing lane on its own nearly as much anymore. Has anyone else seen similar behavior?


Dirty Tesla on You Tube has been documenting this problem with the last few updates. I've also stopped seeing the suggestion to move out of the passing lane. I wonder if folks complained about the car not wanting to stay in the left lane. I would expect that if NoA put the car there, it should leave the lane also.


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## John

NightStorm said:


> My wife hates hates hates my car, says she'd never buy a Tesla. Partly my fault (?), I am always engaging autopilot when I drive. The red steering wheel on the screen, the screeming alert sound, the phantom braking, the lane wandering, the sudden aborts during lane change, the surprise jerk of the steering wheel dropping out of autopilot, all have given her many an unwelcome start. I think there needs to be some passenger-factors engineering on many of these alerts. I am grateful that they provided a disable for the lane departure warning (was mandatory on in the original) as it was a real pain for the kinds of roads I'm on.


Hmm. For what it's worth, none of that happens in our car.

But it's understandable that passengers would be alarmed by what's happening in yours.

Here's our sitch:

We only use Autopilot on freeways.
We never cancel Autopilot by yanking the wheel. Instead, we place our foot on the accelerator to hold speed steady and stalk-up to calmly and quietly disengage it when necessary (and engage Joe Mode to quiet the chimes a bit).
We never "chase nags." Instead, we keep hands in our lap on the wheel providing a gentle turning force either direction, and never hear nag beeps. That habit of providing steering pressure is not stressful, and your hands are ready in case you need quick action.
We so far have disabled Lane Departure and Emergency Lane Departure features. In my opinion those are annoying and not necessary. My brother has a Toyota with Lane Departure Warning enabled, and I beg him each time I'm in his car to turn it off.
We don't see any phantom braking lately. Haven't seen those on our local (Norther California Bay Area) roads in over a year. Had a few in early/mid-2018, but subsequent releases cleaned them up for us on our roads.


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## Kizzy

motocoder said:


> That is not correct. You just tap the right wheel - no need to hold it down. The issue with the voice commands is that the Tesla servers are massively overloaded due to the release and the holidays - everyone is out trying the feature at once whereas before people only sporadically used voice commands.
> 
> Unfortunately, there is some guy here spreading the misinformation that you need to hold it down, because apparently he did that and it worked for him that time (random chance). Reminds me of those animal conditioning experiments that BF Skinner did with lab rats - first train the rats with a reward when they perform some action, then change the system to give the rats rewards at random times. Eventually the rats will start doing a strange dance thinking it's causing them to get a reward. Or in this case, they'll come to TeslaOwnersOnline and tell everyone they need to hold down the scroll wheel to trigger the voice command


I was using the tap and was able to get the words I was saying transcribed, but the commands weren't carried out (or I didn't get confirmation) as the card disappeared as soon as I finished speaking. Holding the button down while speaking allowed me to get confirmation that the command was recognized and executed.


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## John

My main complaint with this release is that occasionally it seems like the voice recognition process gets busy/non-responsive and takes a while to return to normal functionality.
Hopefully the expanded commands won't continue hampering what I have considered to be the only daily worthwhile speech rec that I use.

Me: "Siri, what's the phone number for Fry's Electronics?"
Siri: "I'm not sure. Here's [a web list of unrelated stuff]. Wanna try one of these?"
Me: "Dammit, no."

Me: "Alexa, play hits from the '80s."
Alexa: "Playing instrumental chamber music from 1980 from Spotify."
Me: "Dammit, no."


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## Jarettp

Kizzy said:


> Dirty Tesla on You Tube has been documenting this problem with the last few updates. I've also stopped seeing the suggestion to move out of the passing lane. I wonder if folks complained about the car not wanting to stay in the left lane. I would expect that if NoA put the car there, it should leave the lane also.


Apparently it's a HW2.5 bug.


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## Bokonon

Took my car for a quick spin this afternoon, my first time driving with this release. 

Like others have reported, I noticed significant Autopilot lane ping-pong for the first time in a V10 release. There was also one particularly concerning moment going around a curve where the car actually crossed over into the adjacent lane (which was completely empty as far as the eye could see, so no real danger). I haven't experienced a lane cross-over since a particularly buggy spring-2019 release (can't remember which), but I never understood why the car wouldn't correct itself before this happened, even though the Autopilot display showed the car's left wheels significantly over the lane line. At any rate, last time the behavior went away with the next firmware update, so hopefully this will be the case again.

On the plus side, voice commands worked flawlessly (once I remembered to keep the button held down until I finished speaking) and it was nifty to FINALLY be able to control the HVAC system and seat heaters without poking around on the display! 

Sending a text message also worked as expected, though I had to read and tap the touchscreen a few times to disambiguate my wife's various phone numbers.


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## motocoder

Kizzy said:


> I was using the tap and was able to get the words I was saying transcribed, but the commands weren't carried out (or I didn't get confirmation) as the card disappeared as soon as I finished speaking. Holding the button down while speaking allowed me to get confirmation that the command was recognized and executed.


I think it was just a coincidence that it worked when you held the button down. I've tried out dozens of commands in my car, successfully, without holding the button down for any.


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## NightStorm

John said:


> Hmm. For what it's worth, none of that happens in our car.
> 
> But it's understandable that passengers would be alarmed by what's happening in yours.
> 
> Here's our sitch:
> 
> We only use Autopilot on freeways.
> We never cancel Autopilot by yanking the wheel. Instead, we place our foot on the accelerator to hold speed steady and stalk-up to calmly and quietly disengage it when necessary (and engage Joe Mode to quiet the chimes a bit).
> We never "chase nags." Instead, we keep hands in our lap on the wheel providing a gentle turning force either direction, and never hear nag beeps. That habit of providing steering pressure is not stressful, and your hands are ready in case you need quick action.
> We so far have disabled Lane Departure and Emergency Lane Departure features. In my opinion those are annoying and not necessary. My brother has a Toyota with Lane Departure Warning enabled, and I beg him each time I'm in his car to turn it off.
> We don't see any phantom braking lately. Haven't seen those on our local (Norther California Bay Area) roads in over a year. Had a few in early/mid-2018, but subsequent releases cleaned them up for us on our roads.


I think these are all good points and it is nice to see them listed as you have. I also follow similar protocol (except when I am alone in the car and want to experiment  ).

Btw, my original was to explain why my wife dislikes my M3, take it as an explanation of events over about 15 months of time, I did not mean to say that all of that is occurring all of the time. For example I still do experience phantom braking but fortunately much less common (sadly not yet zero).

Applying pressure to the wheel is an unfortunate necessity during autopilot. I wish the car had another way as I prefer to drive two handed. Alas two handled does not work for me as I seem to subconsciously drive _with_ the car and that gets me the nag. This update has some problem where it unexpectedly drops out of autopilot. Suddenly the gentle pressure that autopilot was applying to my hand is gone and now my hand is turning the wheel in a jerk, startling both my wife and me. Oops.

My phone tells me my car has the .5 update now, by the time I get back from traveling in a few weeks there will probably be another. I'm looking forward to returning to all of the improvements these bring.


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## Mike

John said:


> Hmm. For what it's worth, none of that happens in our car.
> 
> But it's understandable that passengers would be alarmed by what's happening in yours.
> 
> Here's our sitch:
> 
> We only use Autopilot on freeways.
> We never cancel Autopilot by yanking the wheel. Instead, we place our foot on the accelerator to hold speed steady and stalk-up to calmly and quietly disengage it when necessary (and engage Joe Mode to quiet the chimes a bit).
> We never "chase nags." Instead, we keep hands in our lap on the wheel providing a gentle turning force either direction, and never hear nag beeps. That habit of providing steering pressure is not stressful, and your hands are ready in case you need quick action.
> We so far have disabled Lane Departure and Emergency Lane Departure features. In my opinion those are annoying and not necessary. My brother has a Toyota with Lane Departure Warning enabled, and I beg him each time I'm in his car to turn it off.
> We don't see any phantom braking lately. Haven't seen those on our local (Norther California Bay Area) roads in over a year. Had a few in early/mid-2018, but subsequent releases cleaned them up for us on our roads.


I also follow most of your suggested techniques.

However, for passenger comfort, since 10.x has come online, the ping-ponging/over-correcting that now happens on sweeping curves or once a shoulder line is re-acquired (after a hunt for lane center after a lane split/end), I do take manual control of the steering.

And in eastern Ontario freeways in poor weather, 10.x is now too eager to relinquish control (alarms) back to the driver......and the copilot is NOT amused.


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## SalisburySam

I’ve had 31 firmware updates since my LR RWD EAP/FSD purchase in July, 2018. Now on v40.50.1 and still have phantom braking. Some releases seemed to ameliorate this annoyance, but with the most recent update phantom braking is back. Recent 300-mile trip, 14 phantom braking events, bug reports each time. On 3 occasions, I noticed the speed limit change momentarily to a slower speed when a secondary but wide road passed over me on an Interstate. I guess those 3 occasions aren’t really phantom braking events since the car thought the speed limit changed...but very much an annoyance nonetheless.

Tesla, please, please, please devote a resource or two to still-happening phantom braking. It’s definitely killing my enjoyment of the car when passengers are riding with me.


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## bsunny

NightStorm said:


> Applying pressure to the wheel is an unfortunate necessity during autopilot. I wish the car had another way as I prefer to drive two handed. Alas two handled does not work for me as I seem to subconsciously drive _with_ the car and that gets me the nag. This update has some problem where it unexpectedly drops out of autopilot. Suddenly the gentle pressure that autopilot was applying to my hand is gone and now my hand is turning the wheel in a jerk, startling both my wife and me. Oops.


I agree with your description and assessment of AP's "are you paying attention" requirement. I helps me understand why it keeps nagging me. It causes me to hold on tighter, making it less relaxing and I consciously jiggle the steering wheel to get it to "see" me... and ultimately, I think it overrides AP and bounces me out. I've tried the scroll button method some people have suggested but I also like to hold the steering wheel (at 10 and 2) and it just adds more need for my attention to be diverted to see if it is nagging me (via a warning on display) so I can tweak it, or just move it every so often (how often I have not figured out and not sure I like that method enough to care.)

I'm expecting all this will improve, but for now I wish I could figure out a way to be able to relax my grip and keep AP going without me either overriding it accidentally or being considered inattentive. (Note: I am posting this here in response and also because I think (maybe) this was slightly better when I drove yesterday on 3019.40.50.5... I will post there or on another more appropriate location if I do notice a difference after I get to test it out more in a few days.)


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## MelindaV

bsunny said:


> I agree with your description and assessment of AP's "are you paying attention" requirement. I helps me understand why it keeps nagging me. It causes me to hold on tighter, making it less relaxing and I consciously jiggle the steering wheel to get it to "see" me... and ultimately, I think it overrides AP and bounces me out. I've tried the scroll button method some people have suggested but I also like to hold the steering wheel (at 10 and 2) and it just adds more need for my attention to be diverted to see if it is nagging me (via a warning on display) so I can tweak it, or just move it every so often (how often I have not figured out and not sure I like that method enough to care.)
> 
> I'm expecting all this will improve, but for now I wish I could figure out a way to be able to relax my grip and keep AP going without me either overriding it accidentally or being considered inattentive. (Note: I am posting this here in response and also because I think (maybe) this was slightly better when I drove yesterday on 3019.40.50.5... I will post there or on another more appropriate location if I do notice a difference after I get to test it out more in a few days.)


the steering wheel doesn't register squeezing the wheel, but any slight torque on it. for me, just holding the wheel lightly is enough to show the car Im there. I use AP daily and can't remember the last nag I've seen.


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## bsunny

MelindaV said:


> the steering wheel doesn't register squeezing the wheel, but any slight torque on it. for me, just holding the wheel lightly is enough to show the car Im there. I use AP daily and can't remember the last nag I've seen.


Yep, thanks, I do know that. But I've tried holding lightly, resting my hands downward maybe, but feel like I have to "jiggle" it (torque) often enough for it to be sure I'm paying attention... and I have to consciously not grab it tighter... and if I torque just the wrong way, it pops out of AP because it thinks I am overriding. I actually like that it's so easy to override when necessary, but I have not been able to find that sweet spot. I'm sure it's just me. 🥴


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## DocScott

bsunny said:


> Yep, thanks, I do know that. But I've tried holding lightly, resting my hands downward maybe, but feel like I have to "jiggle" it (torque) often enough for it to be sure I'm paying attention... and I have to consciously not grab it tighter... and if I torque just the wrong way, it pops out of AP because it thinks I am overriding. I actually like that it's so easy to override when necessary, but I have not been able to find that sweet spot. I'm sure it's just me. 🥴


For me, I'd say it was maybe 1500 miles of driving on AP before it finally became second-nature. Before that, I was often falling back on the jiggling technique.

I do think the system discourages hands on wheel at 10 and 2, at least if (like me) you're nearly ambidextrous and thus tend to have the two hands balanced. I tend to drive on AP with just one hand at 2, and then let the resistance of the wheel support the weight of my hand. But that's ironically less safe than if I could just drive with hands balanced. I wish the system either used gaze-tracking or pressure on the wheel rather than torque.


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## JeanDeBarraux

Jason Krellner said:


> To me, the car's "intelligence" has a long way to go before FSD is even close to a reality. Setting aside all the really tricky/unexpected things that come up driving on city streets, if the car can't even handle a car turning left in front of it without totally freaking out, this whole thing is dead in the water and will only ever be worth anything on highways.


At the moment, AP/EAP should only be used on divided highways (where a car turning in front of you would not happen unless, perhaps, if there was an accident). If you use it elsewhere, you can't complain.



Mesprit87 said:


> Just imagine having to figure out how they translated the commands in french...I barely use them because I don't know them, not that I didn't try.
> I just might end up switching language to english, but it's just against my principles


They have a few examples in the documentation. Also, if you don't say anything after activating voice control, it will come up with a few suggestions. If your voice control is like mine, none of those commands work. "Aller à la maison" or "Aller au travail" just responds with an english "Navigating to Unknown". Almost all the other commands (even the ones that used to work, like "Appeler") respond with "Unrecognized command".
I've tried switching to English, but I get the same behaviour.


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## Jason Krellner

JeanDeBarraux said:


> At the moment, AP/EAP should only be used on divided highways (where a car turning in front of you would not happen unless, perhaps, if there was an accident). If you use it elsewhere, you can't complain.


I did not say I use AP/EAP outside of divided highways. I don't. But I do use TACC everywhere and that's when I get the phantom and ill-advised braking.

I then extrapolated that to the future, where we will all apparently have access to FSD on city streets. And my point was that if TACC can't even handle a common event like someone turning left in front of you, then that does not bode well for FSD's viability in the near future.


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## Mike

Jason Krellner said:


> But I do use TACC everywhere and that's when I get the phantom and ill-advised braking.


Same here.

I wish for "dumb" cruise control in these situations.

On curvy 2 lane (secondary) highways, any oncoming traffic has a 50-50 shot of giving me the brakes if said traffic is on the other side of a rise and (appears to be) coming from my right.


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## Jason Krellner

Mike said:


> I wish for "dumb" cruise control in these situations.


Hear, hear. I've been calling for this since I got the car. To me, we should be able to have "dumb" cruise control when EAP/NOA is not engaged. Perhaps a user-selectable option? I've always been a fan of regular cruise control, as I like to control when the vehicle slows down.


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## Mesprit87

JeanDeBarraux said:


> Also, if you don't say anything after activating voice control, it will come up with a few suggestions. If your voice control is like mine, none of those commands work. "Aller à la maison" or "Aller au travail" just responds with an english "Navigating to Unknown". Almost all the other commands (even the ones that used to work, like "Appeler") respond with "Unrecognized command".
> I've tried switching to English, but I get the same behaviour.


Thanks for the tip, the other known commands for work, home or call always worked in my case. Haven't tried them since 2019.40.50 though.


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## Mike

Jason Krellner said:


> Hear, hear. I've been calling for this since I got the car. To me, we should be able to have "dumb" cruise control when EAP/NOA is not engaged. Perhaps a user-selectable option? I've always been a fan of regular cruise control, as I like to control when the vehicle slows down.


That would be a great option.

With V10.x seemingly relinquishing control back to me for a single seconds worth of a splash of water and then locking me out for a while.....and then having no cruise control at all just sucks.


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## JeanDeBarraux

Mesprit87 said:


> Thanks for the tip, the other known commands for work, home or call always worked in my case. Haven't tried them since 2019.40.50 though.


They used to work prior to installing 50.1. I was updated to 50.5 yesterday and 50.7 this morning. Voice commands still don't work in French, but when I switched the language to English, I was able to use "Drive home" or "Go to work" successfully. But very few of the other commands worked.


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## Mesprit87

So it's not my Québec accent
Glad to know I'm not the only one with issues.


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## Mistersandman

Am i the only one that’s still on this version?


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## GDN

Mistersandman said:


> Am i the only one that's still on this version?


Per Teslafi you are not, but you are definitely at the tail end. With over 92% of the Teslafi represented fleet on 50.7 I would think you are justified in opening a Service ticket from your app and see if they wouldn't try to push it. I figure we are just a week or so away from another big release, but I'm just guessing.


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## Mistersandman

GDN said:


> Per Teslafi you are not, but you are definitely at the tail end. With over 92% of the Teslafi represented fleet on 50.7 I would think you are justified in opening a Service ticket from your app and see if they wouldn't try to push it. I figure we are just a week or so away from another big release, but I'm just guessing.
> 
> View attachment 31688


Ticket opened. Thanks. And Yeah, I thought it was odd especially since I've usually been one of the earlier ones to get a new version when it's released.


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## Mistersandman

Mistersandman said:


> Ticket opened. Thanks. And Yeah, I thought it was odd especially since I've usually been one of the earlier ones to get a new version when it's released.


Just thought I would update this thread to say that in less than 2 hours after opening the ticket I got the notice to update.


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## sduck

Mistersandman said:


> Am i the only one that's still on this version?


Ummm, no, I'm still on it, mostly by accident though. My car is in tesla body shop limbo - I dropped it off on December 30 and got the notification for an update later that day. So I'm one of the ones on teslafi gumming up the numbers.


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