# EAP and motorcycles



## Derik (Jul 26, 2017)

I don’t really know where to post this. So here it is. 

I’m driving on autopilot on the way home stuck in < 15 mph traffic. EAP is a godsend in this envornment. I live in CA where lane splitting is legal. It’s pretty interesting to watch EAP put cars on them and then they clip through the other cars. 

So on today’s trip I had a motorcycle come up next to me and start giving me the finger. I’m guessing it is because the car stays in the middle of the lane and he didn’t have as much room as he would like to split the lane. I literally put up my hand and shrugged. I’m pretty sure the computer that is controlling the steering doesn’t really care about being given the middle finger. In fact it kept going like nothing even happened. 

This made me wonder what kind of logic is in the system for motorcycles, especially lane splitting ones.


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## Kizzy (Jul 25, 2016)

One thing AP probably won't do is make room for a motorcycle passing on one side only to crash into a motorcycle passing on the other side.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Derik said:


> I live in CA where lane splitting is legal.


Lane splitting is so dangerous. I'm dumbfounded that it continues to be legal.

You want drivers to pay attention to everything around them. Then, let's throw in a few bikes travelling at 20+ mph differential speed at mere inches away into that mix, because driving isn't already challenging enough.


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## TrevP (Oct 20, 2015)

garsh said:


> Lane splitting is so dangerous. I'm dumbfounded that it continues to be legal.
> 
> You want drivers to pay attention to everything around them. Then, let's throw in a few bikes travelling at 20+ mph differential speed at mere inches away into that mix, because driving isn't already challenging enough.


Lane splitting is illegal in Ontario where I live. Unfathomably dangerous in my opinion as an ex-motorcycle rider.


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## Sugi (May 31, 2018)

Derik said:


> This made me wonder what kind of logic is in the system for motorcycles, especially lane splitting ones.


Great question. I'm in no way a computer programmer, but it makes one wonder... Is the system designed to "see" objects passing you from rear to front when I'm sure the focus was from front to rear?


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Sugi said:


> Great question. I'm in no way a computer programmer, but it makes one wonder... Is the system designed to "see" objects passing you from rear to front when I'm sure the focus was from front to rear?


EAP doesn't currently make use of any of the rear-facing cameras. So it's only going to see stuff in front of you for now.


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## Sugi (May 31, 2018)

garsh said:


> EAP doesn't currently make use of any of the rear-facing cameras. So it's only going to see stuff in front of you for now.


Good to know. So when a motorcycle is coming, the car won't care.


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## Derik (Jul 26, 2017)

TrevP said:


> Unfathomably dangerous in my opinion as an ex-motorcycle rider.


I agree it is dangerous, but it's the other drivers that makes it dangerous. Here is one of the reasons why:




. 
Yes that is my video (you can get a bonus 5 mins of the Elon Musk audio book in that). I called CHP and gave them the raw video footage as well. I pretty much put it on youtube to share with friends etc (especially the ones that ride motorcycles)



Sugi said:


> So when a motorcycle is coming, the car won't care.


I would think EAP is also using the sonar to determine distance from vehicles as well since I've seen some videos where the car will move away from something encroaching on it's lane. I don't want to try it out, but it seems like it would make sense as another input right now. I have yet to see the car do anything about a motorcycle. Only time I've ever had it lock onto one as a target is when they are directly in front of me. But then again most of the time they are cutting traffic and I'm very glad it doesn't try to lock onto them as a target.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Derik said:


> I agree it is dangerous, but it's the other drivers that makes it dangerous. Here is one of the reasons why:


I'm not condoning the car's illegal, unsignalled lane switch. But that motorcycle was not splitting lanes safely (ignoring the fact that the act of lane splitting itself is inherently unsafe). You should not exceed the vehicles' speed by more than 10mph when lane splitting. That motorcycle was going much faster.

http://www.motorcycle.com/mini-features/whats-the-speed-limit-for-lane-splitting.html


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## PandaM3 (Apr 23, 2018)

Needs to be a PSA... cars with drive assist features don’t care about lane splitting motorcycles or about cars that cut off a drive assist car at an unsafe distance... it’s going to keep going and they could get hit.

There’s countless times when I’m following the car in front of me while I’m in EAP moving faster than adjacent lanes and someone will force their car into my lane at a much lower speed... EAP can’t recognize stupidity.


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## Derik (Jul 26, 2017)

garsh said:


> I'm not condoning the car's illegal, unsignalled lane switch. But that motorcycle was not splitting lanes safely (ignoring the fact that the act of lane splitting itself is inherently unsafe). You should not exceed the vehicles' speed by more than 10mph when lane splitting. That motorcycle was going much faster.
> 
> http://www.motorcycle.com/mini-features/whats-the-speed-limit-for-lane-splitting.html


Never said the bike was doing it legally.. He was going way to fast for the speed of traffic, but it is what it is. I split traffic for 3 years, but I sold the bike mainly because I don't trust everyone else around me.


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## Derik (Jul 26, 2017)

Well.. Here I am about a year later.
Sitting in traffic with tons of bikes splitting fine around me. One guy didn't like the fact EAP is in the middle of the lane and smacked my rear view mirror with his hand. 
Only time I wish the built in cameras could actually read plates.

Here in CA I wish there was at least a way to tell EAP to move over a little to the left.. It would stop me getting flipped off all the time for people thinking I'm being a jerk over it.

Oh well it's on video and I just had to cycle my mirrors so I could actually see out of it again.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

Derik said:


> Well.. Here I am about a year later.
> Sitting in traffic with tons of bikes splitting fine around me. One guy didn't like the fact EAP is in the middle of the lane and smacked my rear view mirror with his hand.
> Only time I wish the built in cameras could actually read plates.
> 
> ...


I'm immensely thankful that my state(Georgia) is wise enough to outlaw lanesplitting. Motorcycles in traffic are inherently dangerous. If a cyclist chooses to lanesplit, he's putting his life at risk. And it doesn't matter who's at fault when you're deceased!


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

FRC said:


> I'm immensely thankful that my state(Georgia) is wise enough to outlaw lanesplitting. Motorcycles in traffic are inherently dangerous. If a cyclist chooses to lanesplit, he's putting his life at risk. And it doesn't matter who's at fault when you're deceased!


agree. It is illegal here too (California is the only place it is permitted in the US), BUT because a few years ago there was a bill in OR to allow it under specific conditions, bikers took that as their right to do it, even though it didn't pass. AND, they don't even conform to the conditions outlined in the dead bill (which was something like they can only do this in stopped traffic, going no more than 20mph, no using the shoulders, etc). but what I see daily are at least 4 of the same guys going sometimes up to 50MPH, splitting lanes when traffic is stopped or going the speed limit, using the shoulders, etc.


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## Ed Woodrick (May 26, 2018)

My guess is that the law allows motorcycles to split lanes when there is space. It doesn't say that cars have to move over to allows motorcycles to split lanes. So if the car isn't leaving room, it's not the car's fault.


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## Love (Sep 13, 2017)

Derik said:


> Well.. Here I am about a year later.
> Sitting in traffic with tons of bikes splitting fine around me. One guy didn't like the fact EAP is in the middle of the lane and smacked my rear view mirror with his hand.
> Only time I wish the built in cameras could actually read plates.
> 
> ...


That is some straight up 🐴 💩. I don't care what unwritten laws of "give us space" there are (or even the actual laws...if I broke one, write my plates down and call the police, don't go all vigilante) ...but KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF MY VEHICLE!!


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## Derik (Jul 26, 2017)

Ed Woodrick said:


> My guess is that the law allows motorcycles to split lanes when there is space. It doesn't say that cars have to move over to allows motorcycles to split lanes. So if the car isn't leaving room, it's not the car's fault.


The laws are really guidelines about splitting. The one that people point out are the car in the left lane should move to the left side of the lane. The word should means nothing. It isn't a shall. So really they are suggesting it, but the driver doesn't have to do anything.

Now moving over to block them on purpose, that is illegal. There was a whole reddit thread about someone opening their car door into a motorcycle a week or so ago. That is totally wrong.


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## Derik (Jul 26, 2017)

Lovesword said:


> That is some straight up 🐴 💩. I don't care what unwritten laws of "give us space" there are (or even the actual laws...if I broke one, write my plates down and call the police, don't go all vigilante) ...but KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF MY VEHICLE!!


Totally agree.. Flip me off all you want, but don't touch my car. To do that you've got to remove your hand from the bike and you are no longer 100% in control of the bike. (understanding one can ride with 1 hand all one wants., but I'll argue one is splitting traffic and removing one's hand is no longer splitting safely)

Built in cameras on the model 3 aren't very good at reading the plates. I looked at the footage and it's so dark I can't see even where the plate is. Makes me want to go put my old dash cam back in because the quality is so much better.

So far my mirror is fine once I folded it, and unfolded it again while driving.


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## Scrannel (Oct 2, 2019)

I'm from So. Cal, motorcycle, split lanes when needed. Been riding bikes since 1972 and only accident I had was when I was T-Boned by another motorcycle. Just to give you a different perspective, check this link, go down to #3.

http://rideearth.net/2015/10/22/tips-europe-by-motorcycle/


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

TrevP said:


> Lane splitting is illegal in Ontario where I live. Unfathomably dangerous in my opinion as an ex-motorcycle rider.


lane splitting is illegal everywhere outside of california


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## Derik (Jul 26, 2017)

I haven't noticed the car scooting over to the left for anything other then semi-trucks so far with V10.

Maybe I just need to spend more time in the left lane to see if it actually moved over at all. I've just learned to sit in the next lane over and I don't get flipped off or rev bombed anymore. I just have to turn off navigate on autopilot to stop it from always suggesting to move into the "faster" lane. 

I rode a bike for a few years. Had a kid and figured it wasn't worth someone else hitting me because they weren't paying attention. I split all the time on the freeway, but never at the speeds I see people do every day. I swear the traffic is moving 65 mph and the bikes are still splitting lanes.


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