# Would you have purchased your Tesla if Full Self Driving wasn't part of the equation?



## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

As the title states, would you have purchased your Tesla had Full Self Driving not been part of the equation? And by that I mean that Tesla had never mentioned autonomous driving beyond what is available now with EAP? If Tesla had never even mentioned it and wasn't something that they were pursuing in the short time frame. And why / why not? Thanks to @timtesla below, I will clarify it by saying: I'm talking about FSD beyond what was offered when EAP was the first tier offering. So auto-steer, auto-lane change, self parking, is available but nothing on the immediate (less than 5 year) horizon for any kind of full autonomous driving.

Personally, I view FSD as something that I will evaluate the benefit of when it eventually comes, and will likely buy and enjoy, but certainly was not a pre-requisite for me to buy my Model 3. EAP was, as I use the lane assist and TACC every day. In fact TACC / Radar Cruise / Adapative cruise was an absolute must for me as my daily commute is pretty rough. It was a big driver behind getting a new car vs. my previous one.

But beyond that, I bought my model 3 for the smoothness of the drive train, the ease of one pedal driving, the performance / handling, being able to charge at home vs. gassing up and also the real value of fuel savings. In the first 3 months I owned the car, I have saved between $390 and $475 in "energy" when deducting my electrical costs vs. what my comparable gas costs would have been (the range is based on what average price / gallon I would have paid. I have not tracked it month by month, but I generally know the low and high it's been). The Model 3 is a very good vehicle, and I get a lot of enjoyment out of what it is. I considered several ICE and PHEV vehicles when choosing it but found that even though the Model 3 was quite a bit more than the other cars I was considering, the feature set as it existed at the time I bought it, was enough to get me to pull the trigger.

With all the discussion pertaining to the recent Autonomy presentation given by Tesla, I was curious to see how many people considered FSD as part of their purchase decision set. Thanks all.


----------



## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

Needsdecaf said:


> Personally, I view FSD as something that I will evaluate the benefit of when it eventually comes, and will likely buy and enjoy, but certainly was not a pre-requisite for me to buy my Model 3. EAP was, as I use the lane assist and TACC every day. In fact TACC / Radar Cruise / Adapative cruise was an absolute must for me as my daily commute is pretty rough. It was a big driver behind getting a new car vs. my previous one.


same for me. I paid for FSD, but thinking of it as a 'wait and see'. The current EAP/TACC though, was something I had been looking forward to for some time prior to getting my car. 14 mile commute that regularly takes 60-90 minutes - and having come from a manual transmission, TACC alone makes that commute much easier without the 200ish times pushing in the clutch... and my 7 month fuel vs elec savings has been just under $1100 (I expect our gas prices are higher than in TX).


----------



## jdcollins5 (Oct 31, 2018)

EAP, OTA updates, SC network and EV Tax Credit were some of the drivers for me to make the stretch to buy my car 6 months ago. FSD is something I have not purchased and will maintain a wait and see attitude. EAP and NoA more than satisfy my current driving needs. Right now I do not see where I am interested in a self-driving car. Of course this could change once I start reading threads on here about the latest features!😀


----------



## BluestarE3 (Oct 12, 2017)

FSD, and EAP for that matter, was never a consideration for my purchasing a Model 3. Any gee-whiz tech that came with the purchase price of the car was a bonus, but I wasn't keen on paying extra for any optional features (other than a non-black paint color).

My primary consideration several years ago when I decided my next car would be a BEV was getting one with a 200+ mile range at an affordable price. The Model 3 and the Bolt EV were the top (and only viable) contenders. I went with the 3 primarily because I wanted to reward Tesla for committing fully to EVs, while the specter of crushed EV1s cast a pall over any GM product. The tech, panache, beauty, and refueling infrastructure of the Model 3 just made the decision easier.


----------



## Quicksilver (Dec 29, 2016)

FSD was not a factor for me. My commute is short and we only take one or two long road trips a year. TACC is sufficient in my opinion. I’ve wanted a Tesla since the Model S debut, but couldn’t afford it. I believe in their mission and the fact that they are an EV company to begin with...no legacy ICE baggage. Love my Model 3 and plan to keep it for a long time.


----------



## timtesla (May 9, 2018)

If we include EAP in the same category as FSD, then its a no for me. The model 3 is a beautiful car, but I wouldn't be able to justify the cost of buying a LR RWD Tesla in early 2018 over something like a new gen Leaf if it wasn't for EAP.

If we're just talking about FSD, then it wouldn't have made a difference and I still would have bought it. I'm not interested in FSD yet. Maybe in a few years when things get ironed out. I'm skeptical of FSD because even with EAP, I have to disengage way too frequently. My car struggles far too often on the highway with lane splitting and lane changes


----------



## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

timtesla said:


> If we include EAP in the same category as FSD, then its a no for me. The model 3 is a beautiful car, but I wouldn't be able to justify the cost of buying a LR RWD Tesla in early 2018 over something like a new gen Leaf if it wasn't for EAP.
> 
> If we're just talking about FSD, then it wouldn't have made a difference and I still would have bought it. I'm not interested in FSD yet. Maybe in a few years when things get ironed out. I'm skeptical of FSD because even with EAP, I have to disengage way too frequently. My car struggles far too often on the highway with lane splitting and lane changes


Thanks for replying. To clarify, I'm talking about FSD beyond what was offered when EAP was the first tier offering. So auto-steer, auto-lane change, self parking, is available but nothing on the immediate (less than 5 year) horizon for any kind of full autonomous driving. I will update the first post, thanks!


----------



## Mr. Spacely (Feb 28, 2019)

I just purchased a Model 3 for two reasons-- love a performance car and want full self driving ASAP. Being electric or helping the environment are lower on my list. I can't believe people are investing money in Lyft and Uber when they have never made money and their primary value is helping drunks get home. In a year or two my car will drive me home...


----------



## B.Silva (Sep 30, 2018)

FSD was not a factor for me. Indeed it was not available when I purchased in November 2018. Only EAP was available then. I was hesitant about spending the $5k for EAP but in the end I did and I'm very happy I did. TACC alone is worth it to me and I'm using autosteer and lane changing more and more, primarily on the freeway in light to moderate traffic. 

I tried auto park on day 2 of owning the car and it screwed up and crunched up against a large post, putting a small crease in the wheel well fender rear passenger side, which I was able to fix with paintless dent repair. That made me hesitant to use the auto features much the next couple of months but I'm using it more and more and getting more comfortable step by step.


----------



## MJJ (Aug 7, 2016)

Nope.

I was enthralled with the vision and the balls. The vision to reinvent transportation and the huge balls to go all in to make it happen.

Turns out, the balls are so big, and apparently made of Stainless Steel, and of such an inexhaustible supply, that now spaceships are being made of them.


----------



## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

Even though I know "Full" approved self driving may be a decade away. FSD was one of the main reasons I jumped on buying a Tesla.

I wanted to witness it's birth. I'm sure it will go through the "Terrible Two's" etc. but the journey is half the fun.

I also would not have bought a Model 3 at the time without the agreement that HW3 would be eventually included. So I paid my $8k up front.


----------



## Feathermerchant (Sep 17, 2018)

Man, I didn't even buy Autopilot. I bought the car to drive. I could see its use for commuting. But I'm retired. 
I tried the 30 day trial but didn't much like it.
It will happily drive along side another vehicle. I won't. It takes away my escape route and leaves me vulnerable to another driver's mechanical problems or mistakes.
TACC is pretty useful unless the car in front cannot manage a constant speed. You'll get car sick. It there is a sharp rise in the pavement so the radar loses sight of the car you're following you'll speed up then have to slow down when it comes back into sight. TACC set speed defaults to the local speed limit +selected tolerance rather than your present speed. Just annoying.
I've had cars have to move out of my way when merging onto a freeway in an interchange. The Tesla could have sped up or slowed down to avoid the other car but did nothing.
Anyway not for me which I am fine with.


----------



## Smokey S (Sep 30, 2018)

I bought the model 3 because it was more affordable than a model S. I wanted EAP and FSD so as I get older (past 65) I would have a safe car to keep me from getting into dangerous situations or possible accidents. Plus, the model 3 is rated as the safest car on the road. Finally, I want to keep my independent and freedom on where I can go as I get less capable of driving safely as I age. FSD gave me that choice for now.


----------



## HCD3 (Mar 3, 2019)

MelindaV said:


> same for me. I paid for FSD, but thinking of it as a 'wait and see'. The current EAP/TACC though, was something I had been looking forward to for some time prior to getting my car. 14 mile commute that regularly takes 60-90 minutes - and having come from a manual transmission, TACC alone makes that commute much easier without the 200ish times pushing in the clutch... and my 7 month fuel vs elec savings has been just under $1100 (I expect our gas prices are higher than in TX).


Yikes Melinda!! 90 minutes for a 14 mile commute. I don't think I could do it.


----------



## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

HCD3 said:


> Yikes Melinda!! 90 minutes for a 14 mile commute. I don't think I could do it.


Sounds like DC Metro. BTDT.

It sucks.

I remember moving there and looking at a house that was 8 miles away from my wife's office and she's like "that's too far". I'm like, what do you mean? "That's 45 minutes minimum" was the answer.


----------



## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

Bought car without AP. So Yes.


----------



## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

We bought our Long-Range Model 3 because we wanted to wean ourselves off gas and it was the right thing to do.

But I bought the second Model 3 for a completely unrelated reason. It was the simple fact that our first Model 3 was so well built and so much fun to drive! So FSD didn't really enter into either purchase decision.


----------



## Frully (Aug 30, 2018)

I have AP installed/FSD purchased.

When I was first drooling over the tech pre-purchase I was of the impression like many are (I believe) that 'all teslas are FSD already'. When I found out it was only 'limited' EAP I was still quite happy. Bought the car knowing lane keeping was almost all I want. Bought FSD because tech nerd but not because I need it.


----------



## Scubastevo80 (Jul 2, 2018)

Yes - I do not want FSD for my car, I'm happy with EAP and using it on highways. I am fine with driving around town and in non-highway/commute situations. Maybe in the future when FSD is proven, I will upgrade - but as I get older - I'm less likely to become an early adopter of certain tech at a premium. 

I'm by no means a "greenie", but what drew me to the car was the performance and efficiency vs cost, as well as some of the other tech that comes with the car (app, free software updates, ability to pre-heat/cool the car, etc). Prior to the 3, I was going to upgrade my Honda Fit to a Lexus IS350, but as most of us know - the increase in performance comes with a decrease in efficiency (35mpg on regular gas to 20mpg on premium).


----------



## Greg Appelt (Sep 27, 2018)

I have a perfectly good ICE car that I love, but I don't like to drive it in highway traffic (too many idiots), so I only drive for my daily work commute. Not only will FSD make that less stressful, I'm definitely more willing to drive longer distances to see friends and family using FSD as it will reduce most of the stress, and hopefully by end of 2020- all of the stress.
Without FSD, I'd simply wait until I had to replace my current ride. (Mercedes CLK550)


----------



## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

Needsdecaf said:


> would you have purchased your Tesla had Full Self Driving not been part of the equation?


Should have included this option:









I bought the full FSD package, but it was based on maybe, someday, it might turn into something real. After watching the Autonomy Investor Day presentations, I think that day may come sooner than I expected.


----------



## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

Scubastevo80 said:


> Maybe in the future when FSD is proven, I will upgrade - but as I get older - I'm less likely to become an early adopter of certain tech at a premium.


As people get older I think they will be MORE likely to adopt technologies like FSD at a premium. Especially those who want to remain independent but are having trouble passing the vision test to get their license. One 87-year-old relative has already been voluntarily excluding night driving from his activities (for the last three years) because he simply can't see at night anymore. This is very limiting during the short daylight hours of a northern winter, even in terms of being able to go out for dinner with his wife (who doesn't drive at all anymore). Last time he tried to renew his driver's license, he failed the eye test. He got a note from his eye doctor and the DMV gave him a six-month extension to his license. He's very concerned about what will happen in six more months because age-related eye problems are progressive in nature.

A man with a white cane comes into the local brewpub. He's not very old but he lost his eyesight years ago. He remains fairly independent by walking and riding ferries and buses wherever he goes. But every time he "sees" me he is rooting for Elon to make quick progress with FSD. This would be a life-changing leap for him. There are probably millions in his shoes and many of us will have similar challenges as we age.


----------



## Greg Appelt (Sep 27, 2018)

PNWmisty said:


> As people get older I think they will be MORE likely to adopt technologies like FSD at a premium. Especially those who want to remain independent but are having trouble passing the vision test to get their license. One 87-year-old relative has already been voluntarily excluding night driving from his activities (for the last three years) because he simply can't see at night anymore. This is very limiting during the short daylight hours of a northern winter, even in terms of being able to go out for dinner with his wife (who doesn't drive at all anymore). Last time he tried to renew his driver's license, he failed the eye test. He got a note from his eye doctor and the DMV gave him a six-month extension to his license. He's very concerned about what will happen in six more months because age-related eye problems are progressive in nature.
> 
> A man with a white cane comes into the local brewpub. He's not very old but he lost his eyesight years ago. He remains fairly independent by walking and riding ferries and buses wherever he goes. But every time he "sees" me he is rooting for Elon to make quick progress with FSD. This would be a life-changing leap for him. There are probably millions in his shoes and many of us will have similar challenges as we age.


And not just for the sight impaired. There are many physical and high-functioning mental impairments that prevent people from getting a DL so they depend on mass transit or kindness of others. The level of independence FSD and robo-taxis will provide to this group will be amazing!
Now to figure out how to make the MY into a disability-enabled vehicle.


----------



## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

Greg Appelt said:


> And not just for the sight impaired. There are many physical and high-functioning mental impairments that prevent people from getting a DL so they depend on mass transit or kindness of others. The level of independence FSD and robo-taxis will provide to this group will be amazing!
> Now to figure out how to make the MY into a disability-enabled vehicle.


And there are millions of people just in the U.S. who are mobility impaired and have no access to mass transit. Like my Mom in her small town in Arkansas. Self-driving would simplify her life markedly and probably increase her social connectedness.


----------



## Greg Appelt (Sep 27, 2018)

You would think there would be public grants or funding for Uber/Lyft to use for reduced rates to mobility impaired. Maybe it takes a group of us to start the initiative?


----------



## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

Greg Appelt said:


> You would think there would be public grants or funding for Uber/Lyft to use for reduced rates to mobility impaired. Maybe it takes a group of us to start the initiative?


services like Lyft/Uber are not readily available everywhere once you are 30 or so miles out of a metropolitan area. And even if available, some people still would not want to depend on a service like that over being able to use their own car at any time on a whim.

like @Dr. J mentioned, there are people not in an urban area that have various types of limitations. my mom had an illness with increasing weakness in her legs (and arms to a lesser degree) making being able to safely drive a car more and more of a challenge. For someone who spent the prior lifetime doing and going where they want when they want without waiting for someone to assist them, this is a huge deal.


----------



## Paul Hindle (Jul 7, 2017)

The collision avoidance features of the cameras/sensors and neural net seem to be under appreciated and advertised. If these were optional features I would gladly have paid extra, they are far more valuable to me than self driving. According to Tesla my Model 3 without AP is roughly four times less likely to be in an accident and with AP being used 6.5 less likely. When I drive my wifes ICE vehicle which only has forward collision warning I definitely feel more vulnerable. The aircraft I train people to fly have auto pilots of course but the most important safety features are the aircraft's collision warning systems (TCAS, TAWS and GPWS), they have saved countless lives over the years.


----------



## SalisburySam (Jun 6, 2018)

I’d argue that we all purchased our Model 3’s with FSD NOT part of the equation. Although there were features identified as part of FSD, and a cost associated with enabling that, there still is no FSD but much speculation as to when something will be delivered that can be considered FSD-ish. So the poll respondents who said “No,” but purchased anyway, I’d ask really?


----------



## slacker775 (May 30, 2018)

I think the potential impact of FSD for the elderly, mobile impaired and the like can't possibly be calculated. Living in Florida, there are plenty of older folks that are in that gray area (no pun intended) where they still have and want their independence etc, but probably would be better off not driving themselves to their various activities. Outside of the Uber's and Lyft's, the bay area doesn't really have a mass transit type system that a lot of folks would want to use. My youngest has special needs and has absolutely no desire to drive when he is old enough, and quite frankly, I can't really see him driving and dealing with all of the stuff you may have to deal with on the roads. To be able to tell the car where you need to go and it would get you there would be unbelievable. 

As much as the Autonomy Investor day preso was probably overly optimistic, it did re-ignite some faith on my side that we may be closer than a lot of people think. Seeing the amount of improvement I've seen in my ~9 months of ownership and having the development background to know that sometimes something that might seem on the outside as massively glaring, impossible to fix bug is actually a pretty simple fix in the code, I'd love to see 'Elon time' be a lot closer to 'The rest of us' time!

Oh yea, answering the original question in this thread, the whole FSD notion was absolutely a factor in my purchase. If FSD wasnt even on the radar, I may have still bought, though I probably would have waited and drooled over photos for some time longer. My old ICE car was still fine and not yet to the point of becoming a maintenance nightmare.


----------



## NJturtlePower (Dec 19, 2017)

Klaus-rf said:


> Bought car without AP. So Yes.


Same here, but then added AP during the spring software sale for $2k and happy with that.

AP 2.0 IMO rounds out the Model 3 feature set without overpaying for the "wait and see" and the "never going to be used/impractical" stuff... aka Summon


----------



## lairdb (May 24, 2018)

I voted "no" -- but it's a little more complex than that. 

I've grown skeptical about buying things for unreleased features; I've been burned too often. I'm hopeful for FSD to at least high-3 or low-4, but we'll see.

I would not have bought if it weren't for EAP, both for itself, and as a credibility marker for possible FSD -- but I now know that would have been a mistake: even without EAP, buying would have been a good call.


----------



## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

I bought this car mainly because of its technology. I didn't pay for FSD because it seemed like it would be a long ways off. I had tangible EAP functions with more being added. When Tesla threw us a bone I did buy the FSD, but I was OK with out it and had bought knowing I may never have it as we all truly figured it was 4 to 6 or more years away, and it may still be, but Elon is trying hard to convince us otherwise.


----------



## mjm155 (Oct 28, 2017)

I've owned five cars now and the last three each had an oil issue. My Ford Bronco leaked oil and after three trips to the mechanic it never stopped leaking. Both my VW Beetle and Mini Cooper each started burning oil after 60k miles. I would have to add a quart a month to the VW and two quarts a month to the Mini! I just wanted a car that did not use oil. Once Tesla came out with an affordable car I had to have one. I also wanted a car that did not self destruct after a set amount of miles or time. So yes, I would have brought a Tesla even though FSD wasn't part of the equation!


----------



## mixdup (Mar 8, 2019)

Yes. I bought after EAP was merged into FSD and I only purchased standard autopilot and didn't buy FSD. I am skeptical as to whether FSD will ever truly exist, so I did not waste my money on it. I'll buy it if it ever comes out, or if the current features of FSD are refined further but never make it to true FSD


----------

