# GigaTexas built Model Y



## GDN

As usual, without named resources and knowing Elon/Tesla timelines believe what you want from the article. However even just rumors and some inside scoop will start to shape up. https://cleantechnica.com/2021/08/0...del-y-next-week-1-month-ahead-of-giga-berlin/

Some quick highlights from info in this article:

First Y will be produced next week - not street legal, for factory and testing purposes only
Street legal Production of the Y could start in just 2 months
A new design of the Y will be produced - per Elon @ earnings call
No mention in this article of battery type
GigaTX is ahead of Berlin


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## garsh

GDN said:


> First Y will be produced next week


"Tesla will produce its first full test Model Y at Giga Texas next week. That means it will be fully operational *but not street legal*."


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## GDN

garsh said:


> "Tesla will produce its first full test Model Y at Giga Texas next week. That means it will be fully operational *but not street legal*."


I added more context to clarify, thanks for noting.

When you went by did it look like there was any way they could be producing cars in 2 months?


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## JWardell

It's great to hear, and frankly I was betting on it. It will still be a few more months before they are selling Y's produced in Texas, but I bet this allows for a catch up in delivery times towards the end of the year. And I REALLY hope this new paint shop means they can finally offer a wider selection of more interesting paint colors. Dare I say even reduced costs next year?


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## GDN

JWardell said:


> It's great to hear, and frankly I was betting on it. It will still be a few more months before they are selling Y's produced in Texas, but I bet this allows for a catch up in delivery times towards the end of the year. And I REALLY hope this new paint shop means they can finally offer a wider selection of more interesting paint colors. Dare I say even reduced costs next year?


Delivery dates for Y's are slipping to October for more than one person I've seen post information in the US. You think all future orders for the US are being postponed until TX is making cars to sell?


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## TrevP

Just so everyone is aware, even though Y production could begin at Giga Texas fairly "soon", they did mention on the earnings call that initial production would likely be plan B with 2170 cell packs going into those cars as the 4680s are not ready yet. Anyone expecting to get a Y from there with new cells are not thinking straight


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## garsh

GDN said:


> When you went by did it look like there was any way they could be producing cars in 2 months?


There's definitely a large enough section of the factory completed for them to do so. But right now there's no parking lot for factory workers, so I wouldn't expect that they're ready for that until I see some accommodations made for the required workers.


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## garsh

TrevP said:


> Anyone expecting to get a Y from there with new cells are not thinking straight


Ouch. 

I'm definitely expecting to get a Y from there with 4680s.
But I'm also expecting to have to wait another year or two for that to happen, and I'm perfectly fine with waiting.


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## iChris93

garsh said:


> Ouch.
> 
> I'm definitely expecting to get a Y from there with 4680s.
> But I'm also expecting to have to wait another year or two for that to happen, and I'm perfectly fine with waiting.


Once they start making it with the 2170s, I see large barrier to switching to 4680s.


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## garsh

iChris93 said:


> Once they start making it with the 2170s, I see large barrier to switching to 4680s.


I would expect all 2170 packs to continue to be made in Nevada. I believe Texas and Berlin will only make 4680 packs. It's just taking them longer than they hoped to perfect the manufacturing. And Tesla is not one to postpone building & selling a car when there's a workaround available.

Keep in mind that the new Model S/X are designed to use both 4680 packs AND 2170 packs. So Tesla has already demonstrated the ability to design a car to accommodate both packs. The 4680 packs allow more capacity within the same volume - the "Plaid Plus" had a 520 mile range vs. 390 miles for the current "Plaid".


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## FRC

TrevP said:


> Just so everyone is aware, even though Y production could begin at Giga Texas fairly "soon", they did mention on the earnings call that initial production would likely be plan B with 2170 cell packs going into those cars as the 4680s are not ready yet. Anyone expecting to get a Y from there with new cells are not thinking straight


How can I know for certain that I'm stinking thraight?


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## garsh

FRC said:


> How can I know for certain that I'm stinking thraight?


I'll let you know when it happens.


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## JWardell

GDN said:


> Delivery dates for Y's are slipping to October for more than one person I've seen post information in the US. You think all future orders for the US are being postponed until TX is making cars to sell?


No, I'm sure production will continue at full tilt in freemont until Austin fully ramps, which will take additional months..and perhaps keep both going depending on demand.


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## FRC

garsh said:


> I'll let you know when it happens.


:tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy:


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## iChris93

garsh said:


> Keep in mind that the new Model S/X are designed to use both 4680 packs AND 2170 packs.


So no structural pack then?


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## GDN

I know they ship battery packs from Reno to Fremont today and it seems now from Fremont to TX, but that can't be cheap and it must take tons of rail cars and packing. Guessing they could get 120 to 150 packs on a rail car, that is 2 to 3 rail cars per day. I guess a couple of trips per month with a 30 to 40 rail cars each. Of course that is only one component of the car. What about motors? They could come from Fremont too until other sections of the factory is fully built out, a very likely scenario. Might be focusing on frame body, paint, seats. Just have suppliers for wheels, glass, other components ramp and it could be pretty easy to start building. Once batteries, motors, etc are up to speed in TX quit shipping from Reno.


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## garsh

iChris93 said:


> So no structural pack then?


Not with the 2170s.

To be clear - the PACK will be structural in either case. But only the 4680 cells are capable of becoming part of the structure, whereas a 2170 pack has to be structural on its own, and the batteries just sit inside it.


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## iChris93

garsh said:


> Not with the 2170s.


I know that. But if the new S/X can take packs made with 2170s or 4680s, it seems like it's not designed for a structural pack.


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## garsh

iChris93 said:


> I know that. But if the new S/X can take packs made with 2170s or 4680s, it seems like it's not designed for a structural pack.


Sorry, I edited that post shortly afterwards:

To be clear - the PACK will be structural in either case. But only the 4680 cells are capable of becoming part of the structure, whereas a 2170 pack has to be structural on its own, and the batteries just sit inside it.


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## evdude88

Another rumor is that Tesla Shanghai is about to increase model y production ( https://wegoelectric.net/tesla-increases-model-y-production-in-shanghai/ ). Not confirmed by the company yet


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## evdude88

JWardell said:


> No, I'm sure production will continue at full tilt in freemont until Austin fully ramps, which will take additional months..and perhaps keep both going depending on demand.


Isn't austin delayed again?


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## garsh

evdude88 said:


> Isn't austin delayed again?


No, Austin is still on track to start producing Model Ys soon.
Perhaps you're thinking of the Cybertruck being delayed?

https://insideevs.com/news/524278/tesla-modely-giga-texas-coming/


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## TrevP

At least one of them has been built!! Yeehaw!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1431365956299862022


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## JWardell

Actually word is that is just one of the bodies brought in to calibrate things (as spotted by drone recently), it will be a few more months before they will be producing bodies


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## GDN

So for a good rumor - if they are importing the LFP battery from Asia now - maybe send some to TX and build that RWD Y too. Help with any constraints they might be having from the battery line.


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## pikeman

GDN said:


> As usual, without named resources and knowing Elon/Tesla timelines believe what you want from the article. However even just rumors and some inside scoop will start to shape up. https://cleantechnica.com/2021/08/0...del-y-next-week-1-month-ahead-of-giga-berlin/
> 
> Some quick highlights from info in this article:
> 
> First Y will be produced next week - not street legal, for factory and testing purposes only
> Street legal Production of the Y could start in just 2 months
> A new design of the Y will be produced - per Elon @ earnings call
> No mention in this article of battery type
> GigaTX is ahead of Berlin


I'm sorry to contradict your post but I've actually seen the GigaTX. I drive past it frequently and it's a long way from done. Unless they have some kind of bubble inside the partly constructed building, and are building a car in a one-off workshop, this doesn't make sense. Besides, what's the motivation to be first? Something meaningful like fewer defects is more important.


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## garsh

pikeman said:


> I'm sorry to contradict your post but I've actually seen the GigaTX. I drive past it frequently and it's a long way from done. Unless they have some kind of bubble inside the partly constructed building, and are building a car in a one-off workshop, this doesn't make sense.


Tesla won't wait for the entire building to be complete before they start manufacturing. Remember that Giga Nevada was churning out battery packs while it was still be constructed as well. Indeed, Giga Nevada _still _hasn't been completed to the original plans. The completed part of Giga Texas _could_ easily house a complete assembly line for a Model Y. The part of the factory completed with walls isn't readily visible from the highway. An aerial photo shows it a little better. The photo below is from July.

What I would look for to indicate start of production would be... a parking lot. Right now, parking is a muddy mess there due to construction. I think we'll see them quickly build a parking lot for factory workers when they're actually ready to start.












pikeman said:


> Besides, what's the motivation to be first? Something meaningful like fewer defects is more important.


It's not a race between the two factories. It's simply that Tesla is sinking a LOT of money into these factories, and the sooner they can start producing cars, the sooner Tesla can pay off the loans they used to finance construction.


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## garsh

Getting closer. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437492891572740099


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## garsh

garsh said:


> What I would look for to indicate start of production would be... a parking lot. Right now, parking is a muddy mess there due to construction. I think we'll see them quickly build a parking lot for factory workers when they're actually ready to start.


We have some parking lots! Exciting!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1468272986255933453


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## Rick Steinwand

garsh said:


> We have some parking lots! Exciting!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1468272986255933453


Psssftt! Smoke and mirrors.

Show me some Y's being produced for customers.

Extra points if there's 4680's inside.


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## GDN

Rick Steinwand said:


> Psssftt! Smoke and mirrors.
> 
> Show me some Y's being produced for customers.
> 
> Extra points if there's 4680's inside.


It won't take them long. I agree - lets see the cars for the proof, but this line has now been created in at least a couple of places. They have their sub's lined up - already making parts, just need to tweak things. The two big things we want are both brand new however, so the 4680 and the castings will likely be the hold up, but even those should be ready to roll soon.


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## garsh

garsh said:


> To be clear - the PACK will be structural in either case. But only the 4680 cells are capable of becoming part of the structure, whereas a 2170 pack has to be structural on its own, and the batteries just sit inside it.


Elon has confirmed that Texas Model Ys will have structural packs with 4680 cells.

However, Berlin Model Ys will apparently still have 2170s.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486662385901441028
If this post is to be taken at face-value, then Berlin Model Ys may not be designed for a structural pack, as I believe Shanghai uses the same pack design/structure as Fremont.


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## TrevP

First Texas made Model Y spotted in the wild


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506059451484147712


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## Rick Steinwand

TrevP said:


> First Texas made Model Y spotted in the wild
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1506059451484147712


Glad someone got one. They offered me a Freemont Y today for delivery on the 23rd to the 27th. I figured due to the timing and my location (ND) getting one from Austin was a given.

PS, I turned it down.


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## Rick Steinwand

This from my conversation today. I only mention it as informative if anyone else finds themselves in my position.



> We have not announced when our TX Gigafactory will open or what production changes will be made. We are all excited to hear what will happen when TX opens! For now, all models are being built in CA
> 
> As outlined in your Order Agreement, your Model Y has been built with the features available at the time of your order.
> 
> Declining delivery of the VIN currently assigned to you may make your order subject to cancellation. If you are certain you would like the possibility of a TX built car, you may cancel your current order & re-order when we have announced production out of Austin. This would be at current pricing. Do note, even when this is announced, we cannot guarantee models built at specific factories.


She was very polite and pleasant to work with.


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## TrevP

While Tesla has said they expect the first Ys to be delivered by the end of the month from Giga Texas personally I think it would be more impactful to delay a week and deliver them at the grand opening on April 7


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## TrevP

Rick Steinwand said:


> Glad someone got one. They offered me a Freemont Y today for delivery on the 23rd to the 27th. I figured due to the timing and my location (ND) getting one from Austin was a given.
> 
> PS, I turned it down.


I think you'll find turning it down now would have been a mistake. Early Model Ys out of Texas are pointing to them being the new 279 mile standard range variant due to the limited supply of 4680 cells. If you want long-range you're going to get a Fremont-made car for a while.

Like you I was hoping for a long-range Y out of Texas but given the insane wait times I can't hold out any longer and released my hold


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## JWardell

It should be noted that currently all Texes 4680 Ys have only been delivered to employees. So they're still testing them and not quite public yet.


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## Major Victory

Looking for like minded thoughts about how Tesla could charge less than $3k less for the standard range of 279 miles. Anyone else wonder if there is an unlockable upgrade in range/performance that might be available at a later date? 

Might the price delta be better tolerated when they officially announce the spec's because it is truely a one million mile battery? 

Might these 4680 cells be fine with 0-100% charge and 100% of 279 is closer to the 80-90% charge of a 330mile current LR variant?


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## iChris93

Major Victory said:


> Looking for like minded thoughts about how Tesla could charge less than $3k less for the standard range of 279 miles. Anyone else wonder if there is an unlockable upgrade in range/performance that might be available at a later date?
> 
> Might the price delta be better tolerated when they officially announce the spec's because it is truely a one million mile battery?
> 
> Might these 4680 cells be fine with 0-100% charge and 100% of 279 is closer to the 80-90% charge of a 330mile current LR variant?


They will increase the price of the LR, again, before offering the SR which will make the delta bigger.


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## garsh

Major Victory said:


> Looking for like minded thoughts about how Tesla could charge less than $3k less for the standard range of 279 miles.


We'll have to see if that's really the case since it's not yet offered to the public.
Employees are often provided incentives to purchase Tesla vehicles, so I doubt that these first few employees actually paid that amount.


Major Victory said:


> Anyone else wonder if there is an unlockable upgrade in range/performance that might be available at a later date?


I doubt it. Tesla hasn't gotten the 4680 lines running in Austin yet. All of the 4680 cells are currently coming from their Kato Road pilot facility. Because of this, I believe these packs don't have a full compliment of cells. This allows Tesla to use the cells they can currently produce at Kato Road to produce as many cars as possible for now.


Major Victory said:


> Might the price delta be better tolerated when they officially announce the spec's because it is truely a one million mile battery?


There won't be any difference in cell chemistry between these new cells and their existing cells. So therefore, no difference in longevity.
The specific goal of the 4680 program is to drive down the _cost_ of producing a vehicle battery (and to scale up production). Watch Tesla's Battery Day Presentation for the details.


Major Victory said:


> Might these 4680 cells be fine with 0-100% charge and 100% of 279 is closer to the 80-90% charge of a 330mile current LR variant?


No. The 4680 cells are nickel-based just like the current 2170s, and nickel-based chemistries generally last the longest when kept closer to 50%.
Only the Iron-based (LFP) chemistries can be left at 100% SOC without negatively affecting battery life.


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## Major Victory

garsh said:


> We'll have to see if that's really the case since it's not yet offered to the public.
> Employees are often provided incentives to purchase Tesla vehicles, so I doubt that these first few employees actually paid that amount.
> 
> I doubt it. Tesla hasn't gotten the 4680 lines running in Austin yet. All of the 4680 cells are currently coming from their Kato Road pilot facility. Because of this, I believe these packs don't have a full compliment of cells. This allows Tesla to use the cells they can currently produce at Kato Road to produce as many cars as possible for now.
> 
> There won't be any difference in cell chemistry between these new cells and their existing cells. So therefore, no difference in longevity.
> The specific goal of the 4680 program is to drive down the _cost_ of producing a vehicle battery (and to scale up production). Watch Tesla's Battery Day Presentation for the details.
> 
> No. The 4680 cells are nickel-based just like the current 2170s, and nickel-based chemistries generally last the longest when kept closer to 50%.
> Only the Iron-based (LFP) chemistries can be left at 100% SOC without negatively affecting battery life.


I do not recall the specific reference video but the footage of the 4680 battery production played on screen at Giga Austin was reported to be Austin factory battery production footage. Giga Austin is producing the 4680 cells for weeks or more.

There is a photo and tweet from a young Tesla Austin technician showing off her employee delivered Standard AWD Model Y with some additional spec information as well as someone who found 59990 price and 279mi ranges references.

You do a fine job negating my posts Garsh, as usual, but do you (or anyone else as requested) have any creative, original postive thoughts on why there is only a proposed $3K difference in the standard AWD Austin Model Y?


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## garsh

Major Victory said:


> I do not recall the specific reference video but the footage of the 4680 battery production played on screen at Giga Austin was reported to be Austin factory battery production footage. Giga Austin is producing the 4680 cells for weeks or more.


Here's the video:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512187150833442821
I was there and saw that footage. It never specifically states where everything was filmed - some of the footage could have come from Kato Road, but I'm sure most of it was from Austin - especially the final battery assembly. Austin definitely has all of the equipment in place to create cells. But while I was there, I talked to an employee who works on the battery line, and he said that it's not working yet. I assume that means that it *is* capable of producing cells, but the yields aren't good enough yet to run continuously. They still have a lot of issues to work out.


Major Victory said:


> You do a fine job negating my posts Garsh, as usual, but do you (or anyone else as requested) have any creative, original postive thoughts on why there is only a proposed $3K difference in the standard AWD Austin Model Y?


Apologies that my post came off so negatively.

My guess as to why it's only priced $3k less than an LR is to combat the Osborne Effect. If Austin started pumping out Model Ys at a "reasonable" price (that is, comparable to Fremont Model Ys), then everybody would rather get an Austin Y because it has all of the latest updates - the single-casting front and rear, the structural battery, etc. This would cause sales of the Fremont Model Ys to drop, and Tesla can't afford to let that happen. By making the Austin cars more expensive, that will steer more people in the direction of getting "more for their money" by getting a Fremont Model Y.


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## garsh

Major Victory said:


> I do not recall the specific reference video but the footage of the 4680 battery production played on screen at Giga Austin was reported to be Austin factory battery production footage.


I think I found the video you were referencing - it's different from the one that was being shown during the factory tour.

It was shown as part of Elon Musk's Key Note, starting at 34m28s:


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## garsh

Elon confirmed during the earnings call that Austin's battery production isn't ramped up yet. They're expecting to have it ramped up in Q3.

He said that there is a plan in place for Austin to produce non-structural battery packs using 2170s in case the rampup hits some snags. He also said that the recent Shanghai shutdown left them with some extra cell inventory. Those would be 2170s.

Putting these two statements together leads me to believe that the "Model Y Standard Range AWD" vehicles currently being produced in Austin actually have non-structural batteries using 2170s. The battery case itself would have to be structural, since the rest of the chassis expects it to be, even though the cells themselves aren't part of the structure. That might then result in less room available in the case for 2170 cells, which could explain the 12% range reduction from the current Long Range car (318 miles vs 279 miles). But an employee in Austin told me that the 4680 cells are currently coming from Kato Road, so I'm unsure how to reconcile all this information.

From Dan's excellent 2022 Q1 Earnings Call Notes:


dburkland said:


> Giga Texas has the capability to produce non-structural pack for 2170s (mitigation)
> Volume production for 4680s in Giga Texas targeted by end of Q3, for sure Q4
> Sizable cell inventory thanks to Giga Shanghai shutdown and allows them to be more deliberate in 4680 development (gives them some breathing room during ramp)
> 4680 production not a risk to achieving vehicle production target in 2022 however would be in 2023


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## norazi

Major Victory said:


> Looking for like minded thoughts about how Tesla could charge less than $3k less for the standard range of 279 miles. Anyone else wonder if there is an unlockable upgrade in range/performance that might be available at a later date?


The Giga-Austin SR should have a few other improvements vs the Fremont LR/P:
- Supposedly better build quality
- Structural pack
- Single cast front and rear
- More rigid construction due to single cast and structural pack
- Lighter weight (would like to see handling and braking comparison with Fremont LR/P model)

So you get less range but you also get the above improvements. Not ideal but kind of understandable vs if they just released a Fremont-SR with less range and no other improvements.


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## garsh

Elon Musk recently discussed the Giga Texas rampup. I was very surprised to hear that they have (had?) a plan to also produce 2170-cell cars in Texas in addition to the 4680-cell cars.

_This factory is losing insane money right now. Because we can't... <sigh>... like, we should be outputting a lot more cars from this factory vs. a very puny amount of cars. But we had challenges with the 4680 ramp, and with the structural pack ramp, and ironically the tooling. Cause we were able to do 2170 cells, but the tooling necessary for making 2170-variant cars was stuck in China. So we had this Shanghai factory inop., the tooling to enable this factory stuck in port in China, with no one to actually move it. Which basically then caused this factory's production ramp to be very tiny._​
Transcript from this video:


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