# Performance in Snow & Ice?



## subatomicsatan

Hello All,

I have a Model 3 on order (I was late to the game, so it'll be a while).

I live in New England where winters can be quite harsh, with lots of snow and ice (and I have a steep driveway). I was wondering if anyone has any information on how the Model 3 handles in such situations. Should I go for the all wheel drive version or does the 3's intelligent handling make up for slippage?

I know the 3 in new, so maybe there isn't any info on its performance in winter conditions, so I'd be interested in other models' winter performance, as well.


Thanks!
james


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## SoFlaModel3

subatomicsatan said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I have a Model 3 on order (I was late to the game, so it'll be a while).
> 
> I live in New England where winters can be quite harsh, with lots of snow and ice (and I have a steep driveway). I was wondering if anyone has any information on how the Model 3 handles in such situations. Should I go for the all wheel drive version or does the 3's intelligent handling make up for slippage?
> 
> I know the 3 in new, so maybe there isn't any info on its performance in winter conditions, so I'd be interested in other models' winter performance, as well.
> 
> Thanks!
> james


James welcome to the party!

Unfortunately I don't think there is much information for you as the vast majority of the cars to date are in warm climates.

The good news is that test drives should be possible well before you have to make a decision!


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## subatomicsatan

SoFlaModel3 said:


> James welcome to the party!
> 
> Unfortunately I don't think there is much information for you as the vast majority of the cars to date are in warm climates.
> 
> The good news is that test drives should be possible well before you have to make a decision!


Thanks for the welcome and the quick reply!

I hope Tesla does such testing and can offer advice...can't wait to expand my Tesla family from panels and PowerWall to a vehicle, as well!


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## SoFlaModel3

subatomicsatan said:


> Thanks for the welcome and the quick reply!
> 
> I hope Tesla does such testing and can offer advice...can't wait to expand my Tesla family from panels and PowerWall to a vehicle, as well!


We did see some spy shots of an early release candidate testing overseas in winter conditions a few months back, so it does look like they'll have solid data/feedback.

As an aside, you can definitey test drive the Model S to be a sense for things, but if I'm not mistaken they have now discontinued RWD from the Model S lineup.

Very cool to see the other products you already have as well!!


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## subatomicsatan

SoFlaModel3 said:


> We did see some spy shots of an early release candidate testing overseas in winter conditions a few months back, so it does look like they'll have solid data/feedback.
> 
> As an aside, you can definitey test drive the Model S to be a sense for things, but if I'm not mistaken they have now discontinued RWD from the Model S lineup.
> 
> Very cool to see the other products you already have as well!!


When I first ordered the M3, my delivery estimate was "early 2019," but then I sent customer service an email saying that I was already a Tesla customer with the panels and PowerWall and could that influence my delivery date. They never responded, but my delivery estimate changed to "late 2018" a week later. Of course, that's moot now with the latest delays.

The panels/PowerWall install was quite the ordeal. The power companies, apparently, are not fans of home batteries.


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## garsh

Previous thread on this topic:

*Worried About Snow? Don't Dismiss Getting Rear Wheel Drive!*


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## Matthias Fritz

any more to say?


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## MichelT3

subatomicsatan said:


> my delivery estimate changed to "late 2018" a week later. Of course, that's moot now with the latest delays.


The conviction is that the delay only has effect on deliveries in the slow start of the ramp up. That as soon as production is getting up to speed those months will dwindle to not more than a few days. And it has to get up to speed because otherwise production will never get off the ground to realise 400K cars


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## SoFlaModel3

MichelT3 said:


> The conviction is that the delay only has effect on deliveries in the slow start of the ramp up. That as soon as production is getting up to speed those months will dwindle to not more than a few days. And it has to get up to speed because otherwise production will never get off the ground to realise 400K cars


I don't know if I fully agree. For instance if they can't get past 5k cars a week for a while then they will always be 2-3 months behind until such time that they are out producing the backlog/demand.


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## MichelT3

Depends on the moment they reach 5K
And how fast they can double that.
If the current delay with the fabrication of the packs really is the only snag, it won't be that difficult. But if there are other problems, it might have a bigger effect.


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## M3OC Rules

I've been going back and forth on the whole RWD/AWD thing but my current thinking is to just get snow tires and get the first production. Recently I just learned about these new all weather tires. https://blog.caranddriver.com/all-weather-tires-explained-merging-all-seasons-and-winter-tires/ I have had the same Primacy MXM4 tires that the Model 3 comes with on my FWD Acura TL for the past 3 winters in Minneapolis. Its ok in the metro area because they do a pretty good job with the roads but not great on questionable roads. But according to Tire rack some of those All Weather tires look quite a bit better on snow and ice and good overall. Of course you might as well get winter tires if you're swapping.


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## mbrucem

This is the question.... as a fellow future 3 owner in the Twin Cities area, I struggle with First Production or waiting another 6-8 months for the AWD. All logic says wait, except the part of me that waited in line at the store overnight to be the second in the door and first out with a reservation. I don't need P, and frankly every other option that I would want (except maybe a sunroof) is in the First Production car.

The longer it gets towards Feb (my account says Dec - Feb), the more likely I am to wait for AWD. 

Would like to get a real answer from Tesla here, but they always try to 'upgrade' me to the S or X (which I could do, but simply love the 3). 

Let me know what you find out... and maybe time for a M3OC in MN get together.


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## JBsC6

I would suggest the awd would be best for the snowy regions of the northeast...

That's what I'm ordering and we only get 100 inches of snow each year or at least the last few years.

Why spend the kind of money the tesla costs and not get awd...

Of course if you buy snow tires and wheels for the winter months even rear wheel drive is quite capable. Still I personally would recommend awd.


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## M3OC Rules

mbrucem said:


> All logic says wait, except the part of me that waited in line at the store overnight to be the second in the door and first out with a reservation.


I wasn't able to get out of work that day to wait in line so I did it as fast as I could online. I totally understand the feeling when they gave the dates of the AWD and then the double whammy when you realize it may also mean less tax rebate.



JBsC6 said:


> Why spend the kind of money the tesla costs and not get awd...


 You're right. I did the only logical thing. Get another reservation so I can get first production and AWD.


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## mbrucem

That will likely be my plan... buy first production (who actually knows when that or the others will come) and then in 1-2 years either upgrade/trade it for the AWD P or the new Roadster (yes, seriously. i will be putting a reservation down on that as well). Or my kids get their VW Jetta upgraded...

8 month delay from Dec 17 - Feb 18 to Aug 18 - Oct 18.


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## Bokonon

Here's one data point of how the Model 3 handles in snow with 19" wheels and the stock all-season tires:






They will be posting a follow-up video with winter tires mounted.


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## Skione65

Bokonon said:


> Here's one data point of how the Model 3 handles in snow with 19" wheels and the stock all-season tires:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They will be posting a follow-up video with winter tires mounted.


LOVE this! Just awesome. Very timely for the season. Can't wait to see the snow tire performance vid! The Model 3 handled very well. I don't want to get into the snow tires are better than AWD debate because that has been beat to death so to speak ( on BOTH forums). That said seeing these conditions and my 180 mile round trip commute on twisty hilly elevation changing backroads as well as highway this reinforces my choice to hold out for AWD.
This car did extremely well on RWD all seasons albeit a 'flat' parking lot. It will be even better on AWD WITH Winter tires. Just Amazing. LOVE the slo-mo spinning Sport 19's!!! Eye Candy!

Ski


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## Skione65

On a side note the MCR looks amazing in the snow! The White you’d just NEVER see!

Ski


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## SoFlaModel3

Bokonon said:


> Here's one data point of how the Model 3 handles in snow with 19" wheels and the stock all-season tires:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They will be posting a follow-up video with winter tires mounted.


I love all of their videos! The "12 Days of Model 3" has been great!!!


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## Michael Russo

Bokonon said:


> Here's one data point of how the Model 3 handles in snow with 19" wheels and the stock all-season tires:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They will be posting a follow-up video with winter tires mounted.


While this is intriguing, this is by no means a promotion of this approach... I liked how they said they on getting winter (aka 'snow' tires).

Winter tires, get _*winter*_ tires in the winter!


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## Skione65

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I love all of their videos! The "12 Days of Model 3" has been great!!!


@SoFlaModel3,

Do you have a link to their You Tube Channel? I'd like to check it out. Thank you!

Ski


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## SoFlaModel3

Skione65 said:


> @SoFlaModel3,
> 
> Do you have a link to their You Tube Channel? I'd like to check it out. Thank you!
> 
> Ski


Ask and you shall receive!

Enjoy!!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMFmrcGuFNu_59L0pHcR0OA


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## Skione65

SoFlaModel3 said:


> Ask and you shall receive!
> 
> Enjoy!!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMFmrcGuFNu_59L0pHcR0OA


@SoFlaModel3,

You Rock! Thanks Again!

Ski


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## Michael Russo

Skione65 said:


> @SoFlaModel3,
> 
> You Rock! Thanks Again!
> 
> Ski


Now ask if he can have your delivery moved up by 3 months...


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## Archaebald

Michael Russo said:


> While this is intriguing, this is by no means a promotion of this approach... I liked how they said they on getting winter (aka 'snow' tires).
> 
> Winter tires, get _*winter*_ tires in the winter!


I couldn't agree more! Unless there was ice under that thin layer of snow, the performance of those tires was dangerously poor. Kudos for their wise decision to switch to real winter tires.


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## KarenRei

If there's one thing about tires I've learned over the years, it's that all season tires... aren't.


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## Skione65

Michael Russo said:


> Now ask if he can have your delivery moved up by 3 months...


@Michael Russo and @SoFlaModel3,

Now you're Talking!!! I like the way you think! Hey! SoFlaModel3.....oh 'Great and Powerful Oz'!....I have a great idea.....can you perhaps "have my delivery.......ahhhhh...never mind"! 

Ski


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## Archaebald

All season vs. winter tyres, end of discussion?


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## KarenRei

Archaebald said:


> All season vs. winter tyres, end of discussion?


Was that aspect ever under debate?  Maybe if you live in a place that only gets one or two snow days per year you don't need winter tires. Otherwise, don't be stupid - get winter tires  There are LRR winter tires out there, too (My Insight is on Goodyear X-Ice 2s)

"All season" tires is such a distortion. They make it sound like they're close in winter performance to winter tires. They're not.


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## Michael Russo

KarenRei said:


> Was that aspect ever under debate?  Maybe if you live in a place that only gets one or two snow days per year you don't need winter tires. Otherwise, don't be stupid - get winter tires  There are LRR winter tires out there, too (My Insight is on Goodyear X-Ice 2s)
> 
> "All season" tires is such a distortion. They make it sound like they're close in winter performance to winter tires. They're not.


Well, not for some of us, evidently.
Yet I think it is fair to say that, probably a bit more so in North America then in Europe, adoption in zones where they seem critical has is not as widespread as one may think, hence the value of the reminder...


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