# Poll: Should AP disengage AutoSteer when indicating to change lanes



## Gunn (Jul 29, 2016)

Just wanted to get an opinion on something, I have tried to search these forums to see if this discussion has come up before but alas my searching skills are lacking atm. I have also read through the manual and Tesla's website but there is no mention of AutoSteer disengaging when the turn signal is enable, only when the steering wheel is manually moved or tapping up on the gear selector.

So without further waffling, here is the question.

*Should AutoSteer disengage when changing lanes on a AP enabled car?*
(Not EAP or FSD)

Now, I am not talking about steering into the lane like EAP and FSD would, but simply disabling (or rather putting it on hold) the AutoSteer until the manual lane change maneuver has taken place. Once the turn signal is disengaged, AutoSteer would automatically reenable.

In my current 3 with AP, if I want to change lanes on the HW, the turn signal will disengage AutoSteer (but not TACC) without me turning the steering wheel and I have to reengage by double tap down of the gear selector.

it just seems odd that there is no mention of it anywhere by Tesla that you have to reengage after changing lanes (unless I missed it, I did say my searching skills are lacking ). The reason I believe this can be implemented is that the system knows when a turn signal is enabled by making the lane markings dashed, and thus once disabled they turn back to a solid line.

Follow up thought, How would you know *when* to move?

I experienced this the other day when on the HW and a Merc SUV was in my blind spot. I signaled to change lanes and my 3 slowed down (with no input from me) until it was safe to change lanes, while at the time showed all the warning signs that there was someone in my blind spot. Once the Merc was far enough ahead the AutoSteer disengaged thus giving me an audio warning that it was clear. A different chime or indicator would work and then the same sound to signal it's back into AutoSteer once the manual lane change maneuver was completed.

(geez, I can waffle on  …)


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Gunn said:


> there is no mention of AutoSteer disengaging when the turn signal is enable, only when the steering wheel is manually moved or tapping up on the gear selector.


That's how it works for me.



> disabling (or rather putting it on hold) the AutoSteer until the manual lane change maneuver has taken place. Once the turn signal is disengaged, AutoSteer would automatically reenable.


So... are you asking if the rest of us would _prefer_ if the car behaved in this manner?



> In my current 3 with AP, if I want to change lanes on the HW, the turn signal will disengage AutoSteer...
> it just seems odd that there is no mention of it anywhere by Tesla that you have to reengage after changing lanes


If your car is currently doing that, then there is a problem with your car. The turn signal does not disengage autosteer.


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## Mr. Spacely (Feb 28, 2019)

I'm confused...


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## Angrew (Apr 16, 2018)

My turn signal does disengage autosteer as well, I too have autopilot, but not EAP.

I just assumed it does that since without EAP it won't do lane changes.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

garsh said:


> If your car is currently doing that, then there is a problem with your car. The turn signal does not disengage autosteer.


The turn signal does not disengage autosteer for EAP, but I am hearing (and agreeing that it should) disengage for AP since the biggest difference with AP vs EAP is that AP doesn't do lane changes.

My Volvo has a similar pilot assist feature to AP, and it automatically disengages the steering when the turn signal is on, then automatically re-engages when the turn signal is turned off. I agree that it would be nice if Tesla AP also automatically re-engaged. I can see safety/liability issues why they might not want to do that tho. Volvo is a lot more willy nilly with auto steering being on, and then not, without doing much to make the driver aware that it checked out for a bit or that it's back from its break.

@Gunn, I didn't followed what all you were saying about Tesla letting you know when you should change lanes.... with AP, I had expected that that is 100% up to you as the driver to determine when it is safe.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

I have AP (not EAP).

I agree that the current behavior is that Autosteer disengages when the turn signal is turned on, and doesn't reengage after the maneuver.

I also agree that I would like it if it _did_ automatically reengage (assuming conditions allow reengagement--e.g., clear lane markings).

TACC already does something like this. If I have AP on, and step on the accelerator, that overrides the TACC speed until I stop stepping on the accelerator, at which point TACC is back in control. Of course, stepping on the brake disengages TACC and leaves it disengaged, but that seems like a sensible safety feature; if you needed to stop suddenly and TACC didn't catch the issue on its own, presumably you don't want TACC taking control again as soon as your foot's off the brake.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Angrew said:


> My turn signal does disengage autosteer as well, I too have autopilot, but not EAP.





Bigriver said:


> The turn signal does not disengage autosteer for EAP, but I am hearing (and agreeing that it should) disengage for AP since the biggest difference with AP vs EAP is that AP doesn't do lane changes.





DocScott said:


> I have AP (not EAP).


Thanks for the clarifications everybody! I bought my car in the EAP days, so I wasn't even considering that plain-AP would be different.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

From what you're describing basic AP sounds half baked


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## Gunn (Jul 29, 2016)

garsh said:


> So... are you asking if the rest of us would _prefer_ if the car behaved in this manner?


Yes.

I just wanted others opinion on if a basic AP enabled car should have the ability for AutoSteer to reenable after a _manual_ lane change has occurred. It's a pet peeve for my other half and one of many reasons why they will not drive my 3, or even consider getting theirs replaced with one.

Again, I am not asking if the car _should_ make the lane change for you, that's the EAP's job.

I am asking if you agree that AutoSteer _should not_ fully disengage when a_ manual_ change is made, then auto-reengage afterwards.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

Gunn said:


> I just wanted others opinion on if a basic AP enabled car should have the ability for AutoSteer to reenable after a _manual_ lane change has occurred.


I would say no. By changing lanes, you knowingly disengage autosteer. the driver should have to manually reengage when they want it to be turned back on, and not have the car decide it should be turned back on.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Somewhat related - I've often wished that Autopilot would allow me to temporarily take over steering just to avoid a pothole, but remain engaged and take over immediately as long as I didn't leave the lane.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

Basically it would be nice to have a distinction between overriding Autosteer and disengaging it. An override would be temporary; e.g. ten seconds after you're back in a recognizable Autosteer environment (roughly centered between lane markers) and your torque on the wheel drops below the override limit, Autosteer would reengage on its own. 

The question then is how to tell AP to disengage. Braking would be one way. A cancel button on the touchscreen would be another. And probably the override option should only be available in locations where NOA is available (even if the car only has AP, the firmware still knows what kinds of locations are NOA-eligible); on a surface street, any excess torque by the driver should result in a disengagement.

I think doing it that way would keep it from being a safety hazard; in fact, it would probably improve safety, since I wouldn't have to mess with reengaging Autosteer myself after every lane change on a highway.


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

Tesla should just include auto lane change with the blinker on AP. Problem solved. Lumping lane change in with vaporware is lame. We should start a Twitter protest.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

M3OC Rules said:


> Tesla should just include auto lane change with the blinker on AP. Problem solved. Lumping lane change in with vaporware is lame. We should start a Twitter protest.


how is EAP vaporware? which is essentially what the upgrade from the 'new' AP is to FSD at this time.


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## Gunn (Jul 29, 2016)

I don't think adding in the auto-lane change is the answer.

I do think @DocScott has a good point in having it as an option where you can enable the AutoSteer to reengage once the manual change has been completed. For those not wanting it then that option isn't enabled (just like the standard or chill mode for the acceleration).

I don't want this to go into a big debate as to what EAP has and AP has and what should have which option.

Thank you everyone for your input


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

MelindaV said:


> how is EAP vaporware? which is essentially what the upgrade from the 'new' AP is to FSD at this time.


 Fair enough. I almost included EAP features in parenthesis but technically what I wrote is still true. Part of the price is future level 5 autonomy. I don't think they should sell FSD until it's done and let people pay less for EAP features. Especially if they can't count the revenue until its done. What's the point? The bundling is wrong.

I believe the premise of the question is that they should make it less annoying. They have the solution but they chose to make it annoying to try to get you to pay $6k for the FSD package.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

M3OC Rules said:


> What's the point? The bundling is wrong.


well, when people could choose EAP or EAP+FSD (or nothing), people complained they wanted TACC included. Now Tesla includes not only TACC, but lane keeping. So where should be line be then?

my own opinion, is the line should be where it was before  nothing, EAP or FSD.


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

MelindaV said:


> well, when people could choose EAP or EAP+FSD (or nothing), people complained they wanted TACC included. Now Tesla includes not only TACC, but lane keeping. So where should be line be then?
> 
> my own opinion, is the line should be where it was before  nothing, EAP or FSD.


I agree.


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## Gabzqc (Oct 15, 2016)

garsh said:


> That's how it works for me.
> 
> So... are you asking if the rest of us would _prefer_ if the car behaved in this manner?
> 
> If your car is currently doing that, then there is a problem with your car. The turn signal does not disengage autosteer.


In my experience, if it takes 100% amount of "turning force" to disable autosteer, then with the indicator on, it takes 20% force to disable autosteer. Try it yourself and tell me im wrong.


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## Gabzqc (Oct 15, 2016)

Also, I totally agree with OP, lane changing can be one of the most dangerous activities on a highway, and the you have to turn OFF Autopilot when you do it? Seems counterintuitive to me....
Basic AP should have "lane change when signal activated" , so the car will do a lane change when you tell it to, and it will CHECK for safety, but keep Autosteer on, in the new lane. Much like a lot of Gen 1 Model S' do now.


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## noel67 (17 d ago)

Gunn said:


> Yes.
> 
> I just wanted others opinion on if a basic AP enabled car should have the ability for AutoSteer to reenable after a _manual_ lane change has occurred. It's a pet peeve for my other half and one of many reasons why they will not drive my 3, or even consider getting theirs replaced with one.
> 
> ...


I am considering a Tesla Model Y now, and this is the number one reason I am thinking about NOT buying one. I currently drive a 2021 Ford F-150 (it has the latest greatest Ford self-driving technology). I test drove a Tesla and here are the main difference sin AutoSteer (or lane centering as Ford calls it). 
1. The Ford F-150 does automatically re-engage after a lane change (whether a signal is given or not) once it is in a new lane and detects lane markings. 
2. I can override auto steer (lane centering) on my F-150 by steering into another lane (or by accidentally steering too much) and auto steer (lane centering) does NOT disengage. Instead, it remains engaged and starts working again once lane markings are detected. 

Not having to manually re-engage the auto steer (lane centering) in these two circumstances takes a TON of stress off me as a driver.


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## noel67 (17 d ago)

I test drove a Model Y extended range AWD. I currently have a deposit to purchase one, but I have one major reservation. When I test drove the vehicle, I was very annoyed that every time I breathed on the steering wheel (the least amount of pressure) the vehicle automatically disengaged the AP auto steer function and I had to manually re-engage it. I currently drive a Ford F-150 with Ford’s version of the same technology and it allows me to steer into another lane (whether I use my turn signal or not) without disengaging auto steer (or lane centering as Ford calls it). Instead, Ford allows the driver to override the auto steer (lane centering) and move to a new lane but the system remains engaged and as soon as it detects new lane markings and is relatively centered in the new lane, the auto steer (lane centering) re-engages. I can see the need to manually re-engage auto steer continually on a trip (or especially in city driving) versus it automatically re-engaging being a ton of stress on me as a driver. For this reason alone, I am debating whether to even purchase the vehicle. Do others have the same complaint?


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## Nom (Oct 30, 2018)

Wow. Really. A TON of stress. And this is your main reason for not going for a Y.

I’m constantly reminded how different people are. Not a bad thing.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

Nom said:


> Wow. Really. A TON of stress. And this is your main reason for not going for a Y.
> 
> I’m constantly reminded how different people are. Not a bad thing.


How about half a ton? I drove EAP/FSD for over 110,000 miles before switching to an M3P with basic AP. And, for me, EAP (for the lane change with blinker function alone) is SO almost worth the $6000 upcharge. The EAP upgrade is as valuable (to me) on long road trips as FSD is worthless.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

I'm currently driving a Hyundai Ioniq 5 with Highway Driving Assist (HDA). It works in much the same way as you describe - you can override the lane centering at any time, but it remains engaged and takes over when you stop applying torque to the steering wheel (assuming it sees lane lines again).

Yes, I do wish that Autopilot worked this way as well. In a Model 3 with EAP, disengaging autopilot with steering input is a rather "abrupt" event - it would often startle my passengers. I think it was much less abrupt in the older Model S's that I've driven. But after driving a vehicle that doesn't disengage, I don't see any benefit to that behavior.



noel67 said:


> ...I was very annoyed that every time I breathed on the steering wheel (the least amount of pressure) the vehicle automatically disengaged the AP auto steer function and I had to manually re-engage it.


I can say that this won't be an issue - you'll quickly get used to the correct amount of pressure to be applied. The biggest non-obvious issue that people run into is that the car doesn't continuously monitor the steering wheel for torque - it only checks for pressure every second or two, even when it displays the warning for you to apply torque to the steering wheel. So some people think they aren't turning it hard enough, when in fact they are - they just need to hold it like that for a couple of seconds before the car will notice - and they accidentally disengage autosteer when they didn't mean to.


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## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

FRC said:


> How about half a ton? I drove EAP/FSD for over 110,000 miles before switching to an M3P with basic AP. And, for me, EAP (for the lane change with blinker function alone) is SO almost worth the $6000 upcharge. The EAP upgrade is as valuable (to me) on long road trips as FSD is worthless.


I agree with you. Unfortunately that functionality costed me $6000. It's nice to hear that it's included in some other brands' basic ADAS package: a $6000 advantage over Tesla.


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## noel67 (17 d ago)

francoisp said:


> I agree with you. Unfortunately that functionality costed me $6000. It's nice to hear that it's included in some other brands' basic ADAS package: a $6000 advantage over Tesla.


So the EAD allows the driver to take over steering, change lanes, etc., without cancelling auto steer? Thanks for your reply.


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## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

noel67 said:


> So the EAD allows the driver to take over steering, change lanes, etc., without cancelling auto steer? Thanks for your reply.


Not that way exactly. The auto change lane function is activated by using the turn signal. The car then waits for an empty space in the target lane and moves in.

Edit: the EAP package also includes another function named Navigate on Autopilot. It uses the auto change lane feature to guide the car between interconnected major highways and for exiting the highway.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

I recall changing lanes manually (using FSD beta) and it would disengage auto steering and then I'd re-enable. Using a blinker will override this and keep it from disengaging too. 

It is all preference I guess, but I'll take Tesla over what I have in the F-150 Lightning now. I have lane centering (will not keep you from going over a line, it will assist in most cases however) and I have full Blue Cruise. Blue Cruise will keep the truck centered between lines, but it will also disengage with NO warning. 

If I had a choice I'll take Tesla's system. It's just all about what you get used to. No reason you won't be able to adapt pretty easily.

All things change with time too - While Blue Cruise won't change lanes automatically for you today, it is coming on a future SW release per Ford. Tesla has had this for years.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

GDN said:


> Blue Cruise will keep the truck centered between lines, but it will also disengage with NO warning.


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## noel67 (17 d ago)

GDN said:


> I recall changing lanes manually (using FSD beta) and it would disengage auto steering and then I'd re-enable. Using a blinker will override this and keep it from disengaging too.
> 
> It is all preference I guess, but I'll take Tesla over what I have in the F-150 Lightning now. I have lane centering (will not keep you from going over a line, it will assist in most cases however) and I have full Blue Cruise. Blue Cruise will keep the truck centered between lines, but it will also disengage with NO warning.
> 
> ...


Thank you. This is a very helpful comment.


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