# Tesla Holiday Software Release 2020.48.26/30 Discussion



## garsh

We're going to try to move the conversation about the software release to this new thread so that the generic 2020.48 thread can go back to being more about information and less about thoughts an opinions.


----------



## RichEV

iChris93 said:


> V10.2


So still hope for a V11 release with even more goodies


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## iChris93

RichEV said:


> So still hope for a V11 release with even more goodies




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1342577920565411841


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## sterickson

So, they moved a few things around on the screen, and gave a number of us a feature our cars can't even use? I'm not sure I'd even give this a 1/4 "hot" rating.


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## slacker775

So far it looks like the visualizations may be a good thing, and get us used to the new layout before then next big FSD release which is something. Everything else seems like a gimmick that you use once and never touch again?


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## Bigriver

Only thing on 48.26 that looks of interest to me is that the rear camera is moved up to the main bar, rather than buried one level down. I appreciate that. Wipers also got promoted, although I personally don’t care about that. (Auto wipers work well for me.) Would rather have the phone or message icon moved up to the main bar. Would be so nice if we could choose main bar items.


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## francoisp

Hearing the Monty Python "coconut" sound during summon is hilarious.


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## 2Kap

2Kap said:


> Definitely making mine play Knight Rider while summoning. 😂


 So much for that idea. Apparently the pediestrian speaker requires a wire harness change to even be installed for pre 2019 cars. 🤦🏽‍♂️

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1181738919076851712


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## littlD

2Kap said:


> So much for that idea. Apparently the pediestrian speaker requires a wire harness change to even be installed for pre 2019 cars. 🤦🏽‍♂️
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1181738919076851712


Model Y should have the wiring per Daerik's video, I've already scheduled an appt!


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## Rick Steinwand

I reached out to Abstract Ocean, who makes an isolation kit to defeat the speaker. I hoping they can make a harness to add a speaker. I'd rather deal with them, instead of HansShow in China.


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## skygraff

TrevP said:


> *FIRST LOOK! Tesla Software 2020.48.26 aka: "Holiday update"*


Thanks for that!

So the visualization doesn't expand like in the FSD beta so, for now anyway, map won't be the postage stamp I thought it might be.

Kind of curious if the horn replacement sounds will work through the regular horn speaker for those of us with older cars. Would also be nice to have different sounds based on tap type (something gentle to alert pedestrians or wake up driver at a light [without dash cam save], something playful for picking up carpoolers/construction site honeys [sans dash cam], something harsh for jerk encroaching on your lane).


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## iChris93

skygraff said:


> Kind of curious if the horn replacement sounds will work through the regular horn speaker for those of us with older cars. Would also be nice to have different sounds based on tap type (something gentle to alert pedestrians or wake up driver at a light [without dash cam save], something playful for picking up carpoolers/construction site honeys [sans dash cam], something harsh for jerk encroaching on your lane).


The horn sounds only work in park and only work on vehicles with the PWS.


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## GDN

Very surprised that the pedestrian noise maker has the power/volume to make the sounds that we are now hearing.

I can say for the earlier models - the horn is very traditional, activated by a press on the left or the right side of the center of the wheel and the horns are two traditional different notes. Nothing real special about it.


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## iChris93

GDN said:


> Very surprised that the pedestrian noise maker has the power/volume to make the sounds that we are now hearing.
> 
> I can say for the earlier models - the horn is very traditional, activated by a press on the left or the right side of the center of the wheel and the horns are two traditional different notes. Nothing real special about it.


I'm guessing the new ones have both a traditional horn and the speaker.


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## TrevP

skygraff said:


> Thanks for that!
> 
> So the visualization doesn't expand like in the FSD beta so, for now anyway, map won't be the postage stamp I thought it might be.
> 
> Kind of curious if the horn replacement sounds will work through the regular horn speaker for those of us with older cars. Would also be nice to have different sounds based on tap type (something gentle to alert pedestrians or wake up driver at a light [without dash cam save], something playful for picking up carpoolers/construction site honeys [sans dash cam], something harsh for jerk encroaching on your lane).


the horn replacement sound only works if you have the pedestrian warning speaker.


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## DocScott

I know this isn't a feature most of you care about, but for me the ability to give a time to _stop_ charging is huge! My local utility has a deal where not only are the rates much lower between midnight and 8 am, but in the summer months there's a big penalty for charging in the afternoon. I've used Stats to try to set a stop charging time, but in my experience Stats periodically loses that automation (when it updates? when the Tesla updates? I haven't tracked it down). Much nicer to have it native to the car itself. And yes, for those wondering, I charge off a standard 120 V outlet.


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## tencate

DocScott said:


> And yes, for those wondering, I charge off a standard 120 V outlet.


Did that the first year I owned mine too. Not QUITE enough range that way in the end (I was using a 20A 120V circuit too). We get NO breaks on electricity however. But at least the county is still giving EVs free L2 charging for a while. Sorry, bit off topic, still waiting for my update to appear


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## ateslik

I wish Disney+ was included this go around. I really want to watch The Mandolorian in 5.1 with that sweet surround! Oh well, mabye with the extra 🔥 Elon mentioned this will be included.


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## iChris93

ateslik said:


> I wish Disney+ was included this go around. I really want to watch The Mandolorian in 5.1 with that sweet surround! Oh well, mabye with the extra 🔥 Elon mentioned this will be included.


Have you tried abettertheater.com?


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## Jakey

My update just finished. Going to give it a test drive in a bit


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## ateslik

iChris93 said:


> Have you tried abettertheater.com?


no I have not. Very interesting! Thanks!


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## Needsdecaf

I’m [email protected]&king pissed

I hate this update.

I don’t have FSD. I’m likely never going to get it. So now I’m stuck with a larger visualization, which I don’t need. And my map screen has been reduced by what, 1/3? Same with other menus? And now one of the driving cards is “blank”, to make the car even effing bigger? Is the speedo even smaller, or does it just look that way because it’s off to the left now?

i was soooooooo worried about this when people started talking about the Cybertruck UI and putting this new visualization in to support FSD. 

this blows. Can I go back?


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## ibgeek

Needsdecaf said:


> I'm [email protected]&king pissed
> 
> I hate this update.


Yes it's in settings.


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## Needsdecaf

ibgeek said:


> Yes it's in settings.


Whats in settings?


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## ibgeek

Needsdecaf said:


> Whats in settings?


The new update changes space used for the car info when in AP so that it takes up more space, I assumed that was what you were talking about. You can revert that part of it in settings. At least you could in the FSD beta I saw the new UI in. If that's not what you were referring to then you can disregard my comment.


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## Kizzy

Is nobody sad to see the Tesla logo go?


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## bwilson4web

Yesterday, 20 F (-6.6 C), I was able to connect to car and pre-condition the car and battery. So Friday, I upgraded to MacOS 11.1 and since then neither the iPhone App nor Valet for Tesla got a response from the car. Similar temperatures, this morning as yesterday:

weak 12V (?) - 12V lead acid batteries typically fail on a hard freeze, car dates March 26, 2019
I'll bundle up and head to the car, Version: 2020.48.12.1 with a VOM. Hopefully, the car will 'wake' so I can get it to precondition. If I can get to January 4th, I'll schedule a visit to the Nashville Service Center.

UPDATE:

Opening the car door apparently got the DC-to-DC converter to wake up and put a charge on the 12V lead-acid battery. The car warmed up and charged as expected. I'll still schedule a maintenance call the end of the first or second week of January:









Bob Wilson


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## Needsdecaf

ibgeek said:


> The new update changes space used for the car info when in AP so that it takes up more space, I assumed that was what you were talking about. You can revert that part of it in settings. At least you could in the FSD beta I saw the new UI in. If that's not what you were referring to then you can disregard my comment.


Thats what I am referring to. However I do not see any way in settings to change the display. Where did you see this?


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## garsh

Has anybody with an older Model 3 (before they started adding pedestrian speakers) received 2020.48.26?
I thought Elon's reply below was just referring to the "boombox" feature, but now I'm wondering if they're only sending this version out to newer vehicles.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1342575198353014784


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## Fuddinator

garsh said:


> Has anybody with an older Model 3 (before they started adding pedestrian speakers) received 2020.48.26?
> I thought Elon's reply below was just referring to the "boombox" feature, but now I'm wondering if they're only sending this version out to newer vehicles.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1342575198353014784


Not Yet, looking at TeslaFi only 139 installs today with only 425 pending. I have a 2018 Model 3 Performance.


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## GDN

garsh said:


> Has anybody with an older Model 3 (before they started adding pedestrian speakers) received 2020.48.26?
> I thought Elon's reply below was just referring to the "boombox" feature, but now I'm wondering if they're only sending this version out to newer vehicles.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1342575198353014784


Nice catch, Sorting Teslafi installs by Model, I see no 3 in the US/Canada below a VIN of 367,XXX. That is very likely when they started adding the PWS speaker. Something else popped and became obvious with this data sorted, which is the VIN ranges of how they built each model. Early on in the process (2018) there was tracking of the LR 3 VIN's by color as that was one of the few things that changed. Now with a couple years data you can see how they build the different model types and likely even how many if you wanted to spend more time with the data.


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## TrevP

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1342865122969182209


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## wellerjohn

Not impressed at all. Paid for FSD but Elon keeps giving kid games to adults. Time to put up or shut up about FSD, stop the smoke and mirror software.


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## Mesprit87

Needsdecaf said:


> I'm [email protected]&king pissed
> 
> I hate this update.
> 
> I don't have FSD. I'm likely never going to get it. So now I'm stuck with a larger visualization, which I don't need. And my map screen has been reduced by what, 1/3? Same with other menus? And now one of the driving cards is "blank", to make the car even effing bigger? Is the speedo even smaller, or does it just look that way because it's off to the left now?
> 
> i was soooooooo worried about this when people started talking about the Cybertruck UI and putting this new visualization in to support FSD.
> 
> this blows. Can I go back?


Reading your comment, I can only agree. I'll stretch the installation as long as I can for now


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## tivoboy

You’ve now all just ruined my Boxing Day!... I went from hopes and dreams for a nice list (good driver) FSD beta, to a make do games and SLIGHT UI update.. to now possibly getting a lump of COAL since I was an early adopter in May 2018.

This feels like a “you’ll get nothing and LIKE it” moment for some reason.


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## serpico007

tivoboy said:


> You've now all just ruined my Boxing Day!... I went from hopes and dreams for a nice list (good driver) FSD beta, to a make do games and SLIGHT UI update.. to now possibly getting a lump of COAL since I was an early adopter in May 2018.
> 
> This feels like a "you'll get nothing and LIKE it" moment for some reason.


Reminds me of a fruit company eh?


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## SkipperOFMO

Let’s put this into perspective. I look out the window and see my VW Jetta sitting in my driveway that hasn’t changed once since I bought it 12 years ago but everyone is so quick to complain about change. Kinda hilarious.


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## FRC

SkipperOFMO said:


> Let's put this into perspective. I look out the window and see my VW Jetta sitting in my driveway that hasn't changed once since I bought it 12 years ago but everyone is so quick to complain about change. Kinda hilarious.


I agree with you. My car is better now than it was when I bought it. And that is something that I love! The current disappointment is again a direct result of Elon over-promising and under-delivering. He said the Holiday update would be Hot, Hot, Hot(if memory serves). Well, it's late and it's Not, Not, Not.


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## sduck

Just wish I could participate in all this fun - but some yahoo thought it would be fun to blow up the main AT&T switching center downtown, and now everyone with service from them, like me, has no connection to the internet. I even tried parking at the local SC, but they’re down also.


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## tivoboy

sduck said:


> Just wish I could participate in all this fun - but some yahoo thought it would be fun to blow up the main AT&T switching center downtown, and now everyone with service from them, like me, has no connection to the internet. I even tried parking at the local SC, but they're down also.


I'm sorry to hear about that and very sorry this happened in Nashville. I will say the people I talk with seem to think this may have been more corporate attack or trying to limit connectivity for either burglary or some other theft or building attack rather than domestic terrorism. Time will tell hopefully.


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## GDN

sduck said:


> Just wish I could participate in all this fun - but some yahoo thought it would be fun to blow up the main AT&T switching center downtown, and now everyone with service from them, like me, has no connection to the internet. I even tried parking at the local SC, but they're down also.


What @garsh has uncovered is that anyone prior to a Pedestrian Warning System has not received this update yet anyway. But here is to hoping your connectivity is restored soon.


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## iChris93

FRC said:


> I agree with you. My car is better now than it was when I bought it. And that is something that I love! The current disappointment is again a direct result of Elon over-promising and under-delivering. He said the Holiday update would be Hot, Hot, Hot(if memory serves). Well, it's late and it's Not, Not, Not.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1342577920565411841


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## RonAz

It is still one of the most fun cars to drive. Drive more whine less!


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## Needsdecaf

SkipperOFMO said:


> Let's put this into perspective. I look out the window and see my VW Jetta sitting in my driveway that hasn't changed once since I bought it 12 years ago but everyone is so quick to complain about change. Kinda hilarious.


Understand your point but disagree. Tesla screws around for whatever reason, but sometimes makes things worse.


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## sterickson

Keep the update and retrofit my car with the heat pump. THAT would be worth something.


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## Needsdecaf

RonAz said:


> It is still one of the most fun cars to drive. Drive more whine less!


I'm sorry, are we not allowed to have dissenting opinions? I love my Model 3 but compared to other cars i have owned / own is not the most fun to drive. It has many fun aspects and I enjoy driving it for sure. But this update diminishes something that was a primary reason I bought the car. And the reason for it is because of a feature that is now 2 years behind schedule and now costs a quarter of the price of the car.

So sorry, but I believe I have a right to be disappointed.


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## skygraff

Definitely have a right to be disappointed. I would hold off on this update if not for the fact I keep hoping each new update will fix what they broke in the last (major) update.

Looks like 12.1 fixed the Jeda hub bug but still no joy on voice commanded radio stations. Can’t believe how few people have complained about that since hands free is a safety issue. Tesla needs to focus on stability of safety features before pushing out updates of gimmicks.

That said, I appreciate the improvements since purchase and realize that my voice command complaint regards something that didn’t exist at delivery.


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## DocScott

If this update is not going to cars that don't have the external speakers, then I'm a bit annoyed.

This update _does_ have one very important improvement for me: the ability to set a stop time for charging. That has nothing at all to do with whether I've got external speakers.

Newer cars have newer hardware, and so of course are going to get all sorts of goodies that my car won't. I've got no problem with that. But for stuff that has nothing to do with the new hardware, I don't like the idea that newer cars will be prioritized.


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## iChris93

Needsdecaf said:


> I'm [email protected]&king pissed
> 
> I hate this update.
> 
> I don't have FSD. I'm likely never going to get it. So now I'm stuck with a larger visualization, which I don't need. And my map screen has been reduced by what, 1/3? Same with other menus? And now one of the driving cards is "blank", to make the car even effing bigger? Is the speedo even smaller, or does it just look that way because it's off to the left now?
> 
> i was soooooooo worried about this when people started talking about the Cybertruck UI and putting this new visualization in to support FSD.
> 
> this blows. Can I go back?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1342909591131025408


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## Needsdecaf

iChris93 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1342909591131025408


Good, can't come soon enough. Just took a 45 minute drive and the new screen is a major disappointment.

Map smaller. Zoom logic while navigating has changed and is not as good.

All control screens smaller

Info cards (trip odometer, TPMS) cover back of car!

Energy flow bar thinner and much harder to see.

Speedo seems smaller maybe?

Speedo competes with speed limit and cruise set speed for attention. Makes it much harder to see at a glance

Gray on white battery harder to see than color

Gear indicator display lighter gray and harder to read.

All in all, definitely no improvement unless you are using FSD. I mean, who sits and stares at their driving visualization while driving? Even when on FSD, you shouldn't be starting at it.


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## evannole

ateslik said:


> I wish Disney+ was included this go around. I really want to watch The Mandolorian in 5.1 with that sweet surround! Oh well, mabye with the extra 🔥 Elon mentioned this will be included.


I'm with you. The surround sound is really something else. My wife had a minor medical procedure on Christmas Eve day and, understandably, I was not allowed into the facility due to COVID, so I watched a couple of episodes of The West Wing on Netflix in my car while I waited. At one point, there was a scene in an office where someone knocked on the door, which was out of view, behind the camera. The sound came from the rear of my car, and I was briefly startled enough that I thought someone was knocking on my rear window, perhaps to tell me that my wife's procedure was done. Really amazing.

Thursday was the last day for The West Wing on Netflix... I really hope HBO Max makes its way to Tesla Theater as a result...


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## 2Kap

garsh said:


> Has anybody with an older Model 3 (before they started adding pedestrian speakers) received 2020.48.26?
> I thought Elon's reply below was just referring to the "boombox" feature, but now I'm wondering if they're only sending this version out to newer vehicles.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1342575198353014784


i was wondering if any pre 2019 cars had gotten it also. I know I haven't.


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## Needsdecaf

2Kap said:


> i was wondering if any pre 2019 cars had gotten it also. I know I haven't.


I think it has only rolled out to the car with the pedestrian speaker so far.


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## RichEV

GDN said:


> Nice catch, Sorting Teslafi installs by Model, I see no 3 in the US/Canada below a VIN of 367,XXX. That is very likely when they started adding the PWS speaker.


Well at least I can stop going to the car every half hour and checking for software update for my May 2018 vintage 3.


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## EpsilonKore

sduck said:


> Just wish I could participate in all this fun - but some yahoo thought it would be fun to blow up the main AT&T switching center downtown, and now everyone with service from them, like me, has no connection to the internet. I even tried parking at the local SC, but they're down also.


I just switched to ATT Fiber a month before this... luckily neighbors have Comcast and I have a Verizon hotspot ready as soon as it is pushed to me.
My June 2018 M3P with FSD has yet to update past 2020.48.12.1


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## serpico007

Just got 48.26 on my 2020 S. How do I know if everything works with this outdoor speaker? Do Model S cars have it that came out this year?


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## garsh

DocScott said:


> If this update is not going to cars that don't have the external speakers, then I'm a bit annoyed.


Don't worry - we'll eventually get the rest of the update.

It might be a follow-on build that fixes whatever bugs cause 2020.48.26 to not be able to run correctly on our vehicles.


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## motocoder

2020.48.26 installing now. After all the wisecracks I made about "enhanced fart mode", I can't believe that's the major content of this release. Don't have the external speaker, so I guess I can't even use that if I wanted to.

Is there any benefit to the new UI layout? I haven't seen it yet, but making the map smaller doesn't seem like a plus to me.


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## motocoder

garsh said:


> Has anybody with an older Model 3 (before they started adding pedestrian speakers) received 2020.48.26?
> I thought Elon's reply below was just referring to the "boombox" feature, but now I'm wondering if they're only sending this version out to newer vehicles.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1342575198353014784


It's installing on my Model 3 right now, and I have no external speaker.


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## 2Kap

August 2018 LR3.


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## Garlan Garner

Needsdecaf said:


> I think it has only rolled out to the car with the pedestrian speaker so far.


Elon said somewhere that the difference between the folks with a pedestrian speaker and the ones without a pedestrian speaker is a wiring harness.

Does anyone have any idea what the Tesla part number is for the wiring harness?


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## sterickson

It's waiting to be installed on my vintage 3, now ...


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## ECTO-1

Installing 48.26 now. No external speaker here (June 2019). Seems to be wide open release now. 

ECTO-1


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## 2Kap

August 2018 LR3.


sterickson said:


> It's waiting to be installed on my vintage 3, now ...


I'm gonna start using "vintage" 😂


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## Reliev

2Kap said:


> i was wondering if any pre 2019 cars had gotten it also. I know I haven't.


yes i just did sub 10k VIN


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## Lgkahn

2Kap said:


> i was wondering if any pre 2019 cars had gotten it also. I know I haven't.


older 2018 model 3.. installing 48.26 now


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## slacker775

July 2018 Model 3 and downloading now.


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## Rick Steinwand

Garlan Garner said:


> LOL. you are extremely optimistic.


Installing it now, and I have an Sept 18 build, without pedestrian warning.


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## NR4P

Early 2018 LR got it earlier today.


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## Sjohnson20

I just installed on my 2018 no mention of the boombox at all and its not in the toybox.

I guess I'll have to wait for my Cybertruck to enjoy boombox.


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## serpico007

For the S, it feels like any other update. No Boombox or any sounds, just the new games and farting sounds. Visualizations was a joke, shows speed limit and some other speeds in blue and red circles. Think the 3 and Y got more love this time around.


----------



## Reliev

serpico007 said:


> For the S, it feels like any other update. No Boombox or any sounds, just the new games and farting sounds. Visualizations was a joke, shows speed limit and some other speeds in blue and red circles. Think the 3 and Y got more love this time around.


I don't think this is what is intended I still think something better is coming but maybe not


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## WonkoTheSane

2Kap said:


> i was wondering if any pre 2019 cars had gotten it also. I know I haven't.


I just did. Got mine October 2018.


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## EpsilonKore

Just installed Christmas update on 2018 Model 3 FSD HW3


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## tivoboy

May/June 2018 M3 LR downloading 48.26 now.


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## bernie

I’m installing 48.26 and not eap.


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## tivoboy

tivoboy said:


> May/June 2018 M3 LR downloading 48.26 now.


Install done, not even going into the garage tonite.. ;-(


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## francoisp

Sjohnson20 said:


> I just installed on my 2018 no mention of the boombox at all and its not in the toybox.
> 
> I guess I'll have to wait for my Cybertruck to enjoy boombox.


It's amusing at first but you're not missing much.


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## skygraff

Yeah, early 2018, and update available about two hours ago. Will be traveling for work the next six days so holding off until home. Hope somebody tests the voice commands.


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## brur

I have 48.26 on my 11/18 model 3. No fancy sounds, but the rest of it is there.


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## sterickson

So, two things, and one of them is (I assume) me being dumb. 1) They must not have any older people in their UI team, or they'd know that older eyes have difficulty with contrast and don't see colors as well as young people. Their use of grey lettering and in the battery icon is very difficult for my 62 year old eyes to see well. 2) How can I get the map into 2-D mode? It just stays in Google satellite view.


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## JWM3

My June 2020 Model X just got update and no boombox. Pretty disappointed.


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## Garlan Garner

Needsdecaf said:


> I'm [email protected]&king pissed
> 
> I hate this update.
> 
> I don't have FSD. I'm likely never going to get it. So now I'm stuck with a larger visualization, which I don't need. And my map screen has been reduced by what, 1/3? Same with other menus? And now one of the driving cards is "blank", to make the car even effing bigger? Is the speedo even smaller, or does it just look that way because it's off to the left now?
> 
> i was soooooooo worried about this when people started talking about the Cybertruck UI and putting this new visualization in to support FSD.
> 
> this blows. Can I go back?


The configurable screen is coming.......

Maybe it didn't pass the latest tweaks and so it didn't make this release.

Just a little while longer......

Tesla teases Multiple Display option: Configurable touchscreen layout for the ultimate UX (teslarati.com)


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## Garlan Garner

LOL It broke TeslaFi....

Its down.


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## sterickson

Garlan Garner said:


> LOL It broke TeslaFi.... Its down.


Not for me, it isn't.


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## corsair

Garlan Garner said:


> LOL It broke TeslaFi....
> 
> Its down.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1342969534123282432
Appears to likely be due to the influx of visitors. I had Teslascope go down the other night for about ~30 minutes to an hour.



sterickson said:


> Not for me, it isn't.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1342981729607421953
They've restored the main site by disabling their firmware pages so that it wouldn't crash their web server.


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## Phillyasian

2Kap said:


> i was wondering if any pre 2019 cars had gotten it also. I know I haven't.


RwdLRM3 May '18 build received the update a few hours ago.


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## skygraff

sterickson said:


> ... 2) How can I get the map into 2-D mode? It just stays in Google satellite view.


Assuming they didn't change it with this update to the UI, tap the map so that the charge/display icons pop up then tap the globe looking icon (below) to display/hide the satellite view (remember, it automatically disappears at night).


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## motocoder

What is the benefit of the new UI layout? The one portion of the screen I want as much space as possible for is the map. They've made the window with the car huge, and the car within it proportionally larger. But then the speedometer reading they made small. What is the purpose of these changes? They seem to be a step backwards in usability.


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## sduck

tivoboy said:


> I'm sorry to hear about that and very sorry this happened in Nashville. I will say the people I talk with seem to think this may have been more corporate attack or trying to limit connectivity for either burglary or some other theft or building attack rather than domestic terrorism. Time will tell hopefully.


Everyone's got opinions - but if anyone has any actual information that might help shed some light, go to www.fbi.gov/nashville and let them know. 
In the meantime, after 32 hours of nothing, there's starting being moments of brief connectivity. One of those triggered the software download arrow, and I desperately tried to get over to the Tesla SC to download it, but by the time I got connected the arrow was gone, and my "car software is up to date". Rats.


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## melmartin

RichEV said:


> Well at least I can stop going to the car every half hour and checking for software update for my May 2018 vintage 3.


I got it late this afternoon. Model 3, October 2018 build. A friend got his too today, and he does not have the extra speaker.


----------



## Garlan Garner

motocoder said:


> What is the benefit of the new UI layout? The one portion of the screen I want as much space as possible for is the map. They've made the window with the car huge, and the car within it proportionally larger. But then the speedometer reading they made small. What is the purpose of these changes? They seem to be a step backwards in usability.


More FSD - less MAP >> I suppose that means that "Very soon....the car will be driving it self more than you will" or that the "fleet will be driving itself more than the need for someone to have to follow a map".

I'll have to drive with it an imagine it being that way from the beginning to see if it really bothers me.


----------



## Bigriver

sterickson said:


> So, two things, and one of them is (I assume) me being dumb. 1) They must not have any older people in their UI team, or they'd know that older eyes have difficulty with contrast and don't see colors as well as young people. Their use of grey lettering and in the battery icon is very difficult for my 62 year old eyes to see well. 2) How can I get the map into 2-D mode? It just stays in Google satellite view.


Yes, I like color contrast and sometimes a bigger font. My biggest difficulty in the car has always been with exit/road numbers in the navigation directions. I still curse the day Apple thought it was a good idea to use white font against a light green background for text messages.

For satellite view, when you tap lower right corner of the screen, don't you get the same icons that have always been there? I can still toggle satellite on and off.


----------



## harrison987

What a lame update.

Large screen sucks.
Smaller map sucks.
Layout sucks.

Who is the brainiac who decided to come up with this ridiculous update? I want to see my speedometer large and in the middle. I can't believe someone at Tesla said "oh I know! Let's make the map smaller... So we can have a more annoying driver screen, and just for fun... Let's rearrange everything so it makes no sense whatsoever!"

It ain't broke... Don't fix it


----------



## harrison987

Easily the most disappointing update I have ever had in the last 2.5 years. Nothing makes sense. They must have been drinking when they decided to "improve" the visualizations.

nothing is "centered" anymore...feels like everything shifted RIGHT...and now things are crammed in, because some idiot that it was a good idea to make the driver visualizations larger.

The driver visualization needed to STAY the way it was. This new update was just full of Gimmicks.

My backup camera is now smaller (sad)...

Very silly update...very silly.



Needsdecaf said:


> Good, can't come soon enough. Just took a 45 minute drive and the new screen is a major disappointment.
> 
> Map smaller. Zoom logic while navigating has changed and is not as good.
> 
> All control screens smaller
> 
> Info cards (trip odometer, TPMS) cover back of car!
> 
> Energy flow bar thinner and much harder to see.
> 
> Speedo seems smaller maybe?
> 
> Speedo competes with speed limit and cruise set speed for attention. Makes it much harder to see at a glance
> 
> Gray on white battery harder to see than color
> 
> Gear indicator display lighter gray and harder to read.
> 
> All in all, definitely no improvement unless you are using FSD. I mean, who sits and stares at their driving visualization while driving? Even when on FSD, you shouldn't be starting at it.
> 
> View attachment 36487
> 
> View attachment 36488


----------



## Bigriver

Here is my attempt to compare old and new layout. Not perfectly positioned/sized and the daytime vs night-time view doesn't help. I measured the width of the new "car box" and it is 5.5" out of the total 13" width. So 42%. I didn't think to measure the old one before the update.

I think the car graphic does look much nicer, but I now would like another update to make my screen much bigger. I want as much real estate for my map as possible.

Also awkward that my HVAC controls are now decidedly on the passenger side. There was something nice to them being centered.


----------



## motocoder

Bigriver said:


> View attachment 36497
> 
> Here is my attempt to compare old and new layout. Not perfectly positioned/sized and the daytime vs night-time view doesn't help. I measured the width of the new "car box" and it is 5.5" out of the total 13" width. So 42%. I didn't think to measure the old one before the update.
> 
> I think the car graphic does look much nicer, but I now would like another update to make my screen much bigger. I want as much real estate for my map as possible.
> 
> Also awkward that my HVAC controls are now decidedly on the passenger side. There was something nice to them being centered.


They need to make the left hand panel dynamically adjust when FSD is engaged, so that at other times we can have the larger map. This layout change looks like someone had nice color 3d renderings and some manager decided to show them off. It's a net negative for usability. I mean what benefit is there in that huge rendering of the car versus the smaller one they had before? That was one area of the UI that was plenty legible, even for people like me with a near vision impairment. Instead they've taken areas that ARE challenging to see, and made them smaller and lower contrast.


----------



## Needsdecaf

motocoder said:


> They need to make the left hand panel dynamically adjust when FSD is engaged, so that at other times we can have the larger map. This layout change looks like someone had nice color 3d renderings and some manager decided to show them off. It's a net negative for usability. I mean what benefit is there in that huge rendering of the car versus the smaller one they had before? That was one area of the UI that was plenty legible, even for people like me with a near vision impairment. Instead they've taken areas that ARE challenging to see, and made them smaller and lower contrast.


It should be only part of FSD Only. Not TACC / Autosteer.

I really hope the switched that Elon said was coming will be here soon.


----------



## fazluke

garsh said:


> Has anybody with an older Model 3 (before they started adding pedestrian speakers) received 2020.48.26?
> I thought Elon's reply below was just referring to the "boombox" feature, but now I'm wondering if they're only sending this version out to newer vehicles.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1342575198353014784


Yes, I have a 2018 M3 and got .26 today


----------



## Sjohnson20

I just drove with it and I’m ok with the new layout. I like that the camera button is at the bottom now. The larger car looks pretty nice and once fsd is out it should look great with the rest of the visuals. Map seems big enough for me, but it would be nice if they allow a few choices of window sizes. It would also be great if you could change the buttons at the bottom and position them.

And I didn’t even bother trying the games. I stopped caring about those long ago haha.


----------



## fazluke

Needsdecaf said:


> I think it has only rolled out to the car with the pedestrian speaker so far.


Mine is 2018 and I had the update today


----------



## Long Ranger

motocoder said:


> They need to make the left hand panel dynamically adjust when FSD is engaged, so that at other times we can have the larger map.


I don't even understand why the larger visualization area is desirable for FSD. If the car is driving me somewhere, personally I'd rather look at a large map showing where we're going than see renderings of what's going on around the car. Do these visualizations have any practical benefit other than looking good in videos for those showing off FSD?


----------



## ibgeek

Needsdecaf said:


> That's what I am referring to. However I do not see any way in settings to change the display. Where did you see this?


As I mentioned in my previous post, I saw it in a vehicle with FSD that had the new UI. I just got the holiday update myself today so tomorrow I'll have a look and see if they removed it for some reason. 
Can't imagine why though. Think it was in Display settings.


----------



## JWardell

Needsdecaf said:


> Energy flow bar thinner and much harder to see.


BOOO. The energy bar was always too small. I was always jealous of the energy displays on S&X and thought in the first year they would be coming soon. They never did.
It's why I went through so much trouble to make my own displays and energy bar.


----------



## ibgeek

JWardell said:


> BOOO. The energy bar was always too small. I was always jealous of the energy displays on S&X and thought in the first year they would be coming soon. They never did.
> It's why I went through so much trouble to make my own displays and energy bar.


Seems like something that could easily be made more prominent if enough people nag them. Theirs plenty of room.


----------



## sduck

Finally got it. Had to sit in the car, tethered to my phone which is only getting slow 4G connectivity, but better than nothing. It all looks fine to me. My car doesn't have the external speaker, so no boom box. Nothing really exciting as far as I'm concerned - definitely not worth all the "Christmas Release" hoopla. I'm not even going to mention that album art in USB audio is still broken.


----------



## ibgeek

Needsdecaf said:


> Thats what I am referring to. However I do not see any way in settings to change the display. Where did you see this?


If it's gone, it will be back: Tesla teases Multiple Display option: Configurable touchscreen layout for the ultimate UX (teslarati.com)


----------



## ibgeek

sduck said:


> Finally got it. Had to sit in the car, tethered to my phone which is only getting slow 4G connectivity, but better than nothing. It all looks fine to me. My car doesn't have the external speaker, so no boom box. Nothing really exciting as far as I'm concerned - definitely not worth all the "Christmas Release" hoopla. I'm not even going to mention that album art in USB audio is still broken.


Yeah word is that Elon is PISSED! He had been assured that V11 would be ready but there was a security issue that came up a few weeks ago that had to be addressed and the FSD beta is still a month or two away. He tweeted that it just barely a half flame emoji in it's current form if you don't have the external speaker and even then only one flame emoji. My contact at Tesla said that they NEVER have meetings, but they had one the other day and it was more of a tongue lashing.


----------



## SkipperOFMO

FRC said:


> I agree with you. My car is better now than it was when I bought it. And that is something that I love! The current disappointment is again a direct result of Elon over-promising and under-delivering. He said the Holiday update would be Hot, Hot, Hot(if memory serves). Well, it's late and it's Not, Not, Not.


Well at this point it depends on which variant of the model 3 that you have. Seems to me the folks with the refresh got the hot hot hot if Elon was referring to the heated steering wheel. I'm ok with that. As far as FSD beta I don't think we'll see it until Q1 as it's typically the slowest financial quarter for Tesla. Your claim of over-promising is really the product of over speculation on everyone's part.


----------



## skygraff

Bigriver said:


> View attachment 36497
> 
> Here is my attempt to compare old and new layout. Not perfectly positioned/sized and the daytime vs night-time view doesn't help. I measured the width of the new "car box" and it is 5.5" out of the total 13" width. So 42%. I didn't think to measure the old one before the update.
> 
> I think the car graphic does look much nicer, but I now would like another update to make my screen much bigger. I want as much real estate for my map as possible.
> 
> Also awkward that my HVAC controls are now decidedly on the passenger side. There was something nice to them being centered.


If they fix the voice commands for tuning radio/streaming (as well as display levels of the media overlay), they could put the music and toy box icons over by the volume and recenter HVAC, as far as I'm concerned. Maybe they'll give us the ability to configure the menu bar like the media sources. At least they got rid of the redundant charging icon; though I'd still like the battery icon to toggle displaying % & miles rather than bring up charging screen - maybe long press for that.


----------



## testar

Album art still not being displayed in *2020.48.26. *Model S. Listening to my music collection when I drive is very important to me. I much prefer listening to uncompressed HD music in my Tesla because I can with USB. The USB music player is getting worse and worse over time. It seems odd to me that no effort is being put into something as important as listening to music in your car. And so much effort is being put into games and farts. What's up with that?


----------



## Needsdecaf

ibgeek said:


> If it's gone, it will be back: Tesla teases Multiple Display option: Configurable touchscreen layout for the ultimate UX (teslarati.com)


Yeah, that's been posted before. What a joke of an article. Elon responds to a tweet, and all of a sudden "Tesla is Teasing"? Give me a break.


----------



## SalisburySam

sduck said:


> Finally got it. Had to sit in the car, tethered to my phone which is only getting slow 4G connectivity, but better than nothing. It all looks fine to me. My car doesn't have the external speaker, so no boom box. Nothing really exciting as far as I'm concerned - definitely not worth all the "Christmas Release" hoopla. I'm not even going to mention that album art in USB audio is still broken.


Yeah, agreed. And thanks for not mentioning the album art. It's a reasonably significant loss for me and I don't need to be reminded of it.


----------



## FRC

Did we really expect anything GOOD to happen in 2020??


----------



## Mesprit87

I really don't get the hype about FSD visualization, if I want to see what my car is doing, I look outside... remember when we use to do this?
As I said before, sticking to 2020.44.10.1 for now


----------



## Bigriver

Along with others, disappointed in this update. But actually very happy that I don’t have the pedestrian warning speaker, as frankly, I don’t want a car that can fart. It’s bad enough that the Emissions Mode is inside the car, but now it is expanded. Come on guys, this just isn’t a class act. As for customizing horn honks, I grew up in a time and place where every good ******* had Dixie as their horn... and my mind just keeps going back to that and saying, Please, NO, make it stop. 🤨

But on the bright side, I am again renewed in how exciting OTA updates are... the possibilities of what they could bring. It’s fun to speculate and dream, and sometimes a random tweet to Elon and poof - it happens! The car changes and continues to improve long after it was new. This is truly revolutionary. Sometimes it hits me with renewed WOW.


----------



## garsh

My dad installed an old AAAA-OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-GA horn in our truck back in the day.


----------



## francoisp

Bigriver said:


> Along with others, disappointed in this update. But actually very happy that I don't have the pedestrian warning speaker, as frankly, I don't want a car that can fart. It's bad enough that the Emissions Mode is inside the car, but now it is expanded. Come on guys, this just isn't a class act. As for customizing horn honks, I grew up in a time and place where every good ******* had Dixie as their horn... and my mind just keeps going back to that and saying, Please, NO, make it stop. 🤨
> 
> But on the bright side, I am again renewed in how exciting OTA updates are... the possibilities of what they could bring. It's fun to speculate and dream, and sometimes a random tweet to Elon and poof - it happens! The car changes and continues to improve long after it was new. This is truly revolutionary. Sometimes it hits me with renewed WOW.


I don't know about the laws in the US regarding modifying the honk but in the 80's in Quebec a law was passed to outlaw using external car sound/music similar to what Tesla's offering.


----------



## DocScott

My take on some of these recent (and, in the first case, not-so-recent) features:

*Fart noises inside the car*: whoever is riding with you has to listen to you anyway. If you didn't have the fart noises, you'd probably be telling goofy jokes or listening to strange stuff on the sound system, or something. I'm fine with it as a feature, and people who don't care for it, don't use it.

*Boombox*: Useful where legal. It only works in park, so it could be OK for tailgating, picnics, etc.. I could see it for drive-ins, too, if you want to sit outside the car. I don't think I'd use this often if I had it, but once in a while it would come in handy.

*Customizable pedestrian warning sound*: A pedestrian warning sound is required by law in the US. It seems natural to make it customizable, within limits. But I don't like that people can customize it with any sound they want...these things need to be vetted. Too many people will use them for racist/vulgar/misogynistic/political/offensive/etc. things.

*Customizable horn*: Again, I'd be fine with this if it was limited to vetted choices. But allowing people their own sound clips? A good fraction of people will choose "[email protected]#% you!" or something like that. It will increase road rage, and make everyone think Tesla owners are jerks. EDIT: Only works in park (see post by iChris93 below). So no increased road rage, but still could make Tesla owners look like jerks: I suspect more than a few people will choose a wolf whistle and use it to harass women walking by.

*Fart noises outside the car*: No. Just no. Amusing to show off to family members and friends for a few minutes, perhaps. But primarily another way to make Tesla owners look like juvenile jerks.


----------



## iChris93

DocScott said:


> *Boombox*: Useful where legal. It only works in park, so it could be OK for tailgating, picnics, etc.. I could see it for drive-ins, too, if you want to sit outside the car. I don't think I'd use this often if I had it, but once in a while it would come in handy.


Great insight here.



DocScott said:


> *Customizable horn*: Again, I'd be fine with this if it was limited to vetted choices. But allowing people their own sound clips? A good fraction of people will choose "[email protected]#% you!" or something like that. It will increase road rage, and make everyone think Tesla owners are jerks.


This only works in park and reverts to the standard horn in drive so hopefully won't increase road rage.


----------



## GDN

I think one of the most confusing parts of this release is simply what they called "Customizable Horn", that is misleading and confusing. It isn't touching nor changing the horn sound and is only available in park. They should have really given this a new name, like Prankster Speaker.


----------



## Dogwhistle

Gah, new layout is horrible. I never look at the Driving Visualization, so that is already wasted space to me. Now I’ve got more of it. Boo.


----------



## 2Kap

DocScott said:


> *Boombox*: Useful where legal. It only works in park, so it could be OK for tailgating, picnics, etc.. I could see it for drive-ins, too, if you want to sit outside the car. I don't think I'd use this often if I had it, but once in a while it would come in handy.


It's just 1 speaker right? You'd be better off just rolling down the windows and turning the volume up. At least you'd get some treble and bass.


----------



## GDN

OK - Here you go - I believe the tape measure to be very close. Old screen graphics - 4 1/4 inches dedicated to the car visualizations, 8 3/4 inches dedicated to the map. New screen graphics 5 3/8 inches dedicated to the car visualizations and 7 5/8 inches dedicated to the map.

*They've given about 1 1/8 inches more to the visualizations.*

Personally after a short drive last night, I don't have anything against the new layout (other than current speed needs to be a little more dominant). I've always liked the driving visualizations and I can zoom in or out on the map.

Here is my key takeaway however, if they are giving more room to the visualizations side due to FSD coming, I think they are thinking about it wrong. While there is a lot to display there, it is more important than ever that the driver not watch the screen. While it can show what the car is seeing and doing it is now time to be more diligent about watching what is going on around you and being prepared to take over. There is likely so little on the screen you won't be able to take over from what you see happening there, vs observing real time like you do today watching out of the car and observing other people and cars/traffic around you. That is what will prepare you to take over in the event something is going to go wrong.


----------



## slasher016

Yikes what an awful update. Drove it for the first time today with the new huge car section. Just terrible. They even removed the coloration from the battery percentage to make it a blah gray. The whole update feels like it removed all color and feel from the display.


----------



## DocScott

2Kap said:


> It's just 1 speaker right? You'd be better off just rolling down the windows and turning the volume up. At least you'd get some treble and bass.


Less power, though. For a multiple-hour event, it could save a couple of kWh compared to blasting it from inside. I haven't heard the sound quality in boombox mode yet. At a minimum, it would probably work for things like listening to a pre-game show.


----------



## Mike

GDN said:


> What @garsh has uncovered is that anyone prior to a Pedestrian Warning System has not received this update yet anyway. But here is to hoping your connectivity is restored soon.


I got it last night, my build date is May 2018.


Needsdecaf said:


> Gray on white battery harder to see than color


That just...sucks...


----------



## Mike

Garlan Garner said:


> The configurable screen is coming.......
> 
> Maybe it didn't pass the latest tweaks and so it didn't make this release.
> 
> Just a little while longer......
> 
> Tesla teases Multiple Display option: Configurable touchscreen layout for the ultimate UX (teslarati.com)


I hope I can pin the "estimated SOC% at destination" icon right next to the ETA...


----------



## Ksb466

The camera views looks crisper to me, particularly the sides. Or is it just the new sizing?


----------



## Dogwhistle

Just got notified the update is available. For the first time ever since owning the car, I’m going to sit on an update. Will wait until the customizable screen Elon claims is coming is released!


----------



## Mike

GDN said:


> OK - Here you go - I believe the tape measure to be very close. Old screen graphics - 4 1/4 inches dedicated to the car visualizations, 8 3/4 inches dedicated to the map. New screen graphics 5 3/8 inches dedicated to the car visualizations and 7 5/8 inches dedicated to the map.
> 
> *They've given about 1 1/8 inches more to the visualizations.*
> 
> Personally after a short drive last night, I don't have anything against the new layout (other than current speed needs to be a little more dominant). I've always liked the driving visualizations and I can zoom in or out on the map.
> 
> Here is my key takeaway however, if they are giving more room to the visualizations side due to FSD coming, I think they are thinking about it wrong. While there is a lot to display there, it is more important than ever that the driver not watch the screen. While it can show what the car is seeing and doing it is now time to be more diligent about watching what is going on around you and being prepared to take over. There is likely so little on the screen you won't be able to take over from what you see happening there, vs observing real time like you do today watching out of the car and observing other people and cars/traffic around you. That is what will prepare you to take over in the event something is going to go wrong.
> 
> View attachment 36502
> View attachment 36503


Thanks for these before and after shots...so about a 20% increase in the width of the car graphics...I don't like the grey (versus green) battery SOC icon.


----------



## sduck

So after installing the update last night I still had an arrow at the top of the screen. The software page said i had game update on the way, so I let it download. It finished, fine. The arrow was still there, and in the software page it started downloading again. I was tired, so I just left it to do it's thing, whatever that might be.

Just now we finally had our AT&T service restored, so went down to the car to reconnect it to the wifi. Still had a download arrow, so watched it download, about 3 times before I lost interest. I hope it's not downloading this for the rest of the life of this version. (I probably need to reboot again - already did it once)


----------



## tivoboy

I have to say, after driving it a bit today I’m in full agreement with many and this is a step backwards from a driver usability standpoint. It MAY be that having a larger vehicle display is going to be somehow warranted when/if ever we get FSD, but at the moment it does seem to be a regression. I really did NOT need to see a larger car, either stationary or in motion, but I DID like to see the regen graphic, and have the LIGHTS indicators clearly visible from the drivers seat (above everything and not tucked on the left side edge. I prefer to have the Drive indicator more prominent and CERTAINLY prefer the current SPEED to be as well larger and more visible from the drivers seat. With hands at 2/10 and at least in my driving position, my right hands obscures the XX speed indicator.

I’m pretty surprised that they would even release these updates when the tiles/cards clearly cover both the stationary car AND the in motion vehicle when they pop up sometimes. Everytime I get in the car the passenger ABS deactivation notification comes up, and covers the bottom of the car image. Who let that one get through QA?

I really LIKED the larger map and while is not ”1/3 smaller” than before, it looks quite a bit worse now more a BOX than a sideways 3:4 rectangle. I’d love to be able to just drag the divider over to the left a bit and make the map larger again.

And, as far as the map goes, does anyone else’s car not know WHERE IT IS? My map is spinning and hunting and doesn’t know precisely where the car is at the moment. It’s not just the sometimes 1/16 inch off of the main road one is traveling, this morning my car seemed to be traveling along a local winding creek that is nearby.. not sure on earth how it thought THAT was possible.


----------



## BCinSD

I'm adding my voice to those who are disappointed with the 2020.48.26 update. This is the first time I've felt like a Tesla update is a step backwards. Like others, I don't like the smaller map and the grayed out battery icon. Granted, I enjoy watching my windows go up and down on the car graphic. However, the car avatar is too big and takes up too much valuable space.

I have a 2019 M3 (no external speakers) with chrome delete and the 18" aero cap kit. I love how my car is rendered on my phone app. However, with this latest update, my dashboard car is rendered with silver stock wheels. No offense to those of you who prefer silver wheels, but I don't like the look! I want my dark gray wheels back! ;-)


----------



## Mike

tivoboy said:


> I have to say, after driving it a bit today I'm in full agreement with many and this is a step backwards from a driver usability standpoint. It MAY be that having a larger vehicle display is going to be somehow warranted when/if ever we get FSD, but at the moment it does seem to be a regression. I really did NOT need to see a larger car, either stationary or in motion, but I DID like to see the regen graphic, and have the LIGHTS indicators clearly visible from the drivers seat (above everything and not tucked on the left side edge. I prefer to have the Drive indicator more prominent and CERTAINLY prefer the current SPEED to be as well larger and more visible from the drivers seat. With hands at 2/10 and at least in my driving position, my right hands obscures the XX speed indicator.
> 
> I'm pretty surprised that they would even release these updates when the tiles/cards clearly cover both the stationary car AND the in motion vehicle when they pop up sometimes. Everytime I get in the car the passenger ABS deactivation notification comes up, and covers the bottom of the car image. Who let that one get through QA?
> 
> I really LIKED the larger map and while is not "1/3 smaller" than before, it looks quite a bit worse now more a BOX than a sideways 3:4 rectangle. I'd love to be able to just drag the divider over to the left a bit and make the map larger again.
> 
> And, as far as the map goes, does anyone else's car not know WHERE IT IS? My map is spinning and hunting and doesn't know precisely where the car is at the moment. It's not just the sometimes 1/16 inch off of the main road one is traveling, this morning my car seemed to be traveling along a local winding creek that is nearby.. not sure on earth how it thought THAT was possible.


When I drove my wifes Kona EV for the first time at night, I had to peer around the steering wheel to see the headlamp and high beam icons and found it a big PITA.

I had always been happy with never having to worry about trouble seeing any of the warning icons in my TM3...until now, it seems...


----------



## motocoder

GDN said:


> I think one of the most confusing parts of this release is simply what they called "Customizable Horn", that is misleading and confusing. It isn't touching nor changing the horn sound and is only available in park. They should have really given this a new name, like Prankster Speaker.


They should call it "8 year old mode", because that's the median mental age of people who would invest development resources into a way to make the car fart. I'm thinking this kind of feature, and the games, must be coming from Elon, because otherwise the likelihood is someone in the management chain would put an end to this nonsense and focus on fixing bugs and actual features that improve drive-ability and comfort.


----------



## Garlan Garner

Well everyone...I just went for a drive with the new software.

I have to say that I absolutely LOVE it. 

I love all of the new animations and vehicle views.

I love the slow opening doors.
I love seeing the windows being opened and closed. It even shows how far the window is opened or closed. ( even the passengers )
I love seeing the tires turning when moving when you turn the steering wheel to the right or left.
I love seeing the wheels turn when in park.
I love seeing my white seats in the car and the white strip in the front console.
I love seeing my red calipers.
I love seeing alerts showing up on the left hand side instead of on the top. ( ex. low tire pressure ).

I don't like the amount of battery left being black. - however I understand why its not green anymore.
I don't like seeing how small the numbers are relating to speed.
I don't like the fact that the speed is no longer centered on the screen, however I understand why. FSD is now front and center.
I don't like the smaller web browser.

Things that I use the least are getting smaller "real estate" and I don't mind. I don't care about the games so - no review. 

I would love to see all of the new animations in the phone app. For example....it would be great to see how far down my windows are/aren't.


----------



## Rick Steinwand

Garlan Garner said:


> Well everyone...I just went for a drive with the new software.
> 
> I have to say that I absolutely LOVE it.
> 
> I love all of the new animations and vehicle views.
> 
> I love the show opening doors.
> I love seeing the windows being opened and closed. It even shows how far the window is opened or closed. ( even the passengers )
> I love seeing the tires turning when moving when you turn the steering wheel to the right or left.
> I love seeing the wheels turn when in park.
> I love seeing my white seats in the car and the white strip in the front console.
> I love seeing my red calipers.
> I love seeing alerts showing up on the left hand side instead of on the top. ( ex. low tire pressure ).
> 
> I don't like the amount of battery left being black. - however I understand why its not green anymore.
> I don't like seeing how small the numbers are relating to speed.
> I don't like the fact that the speed is no longer centered on the screen, however I understand why. FSD is now front and center.
> I don't like the smaller web browser.
> 
> Things that I use the least are getting smaller "real estate" and I don't mind.
> 
> I would love to see all of the new animations in the phone app. For example....it would be great to see how far down my windows are/aren't.


Now disconnect your external speaker wiring, and get us an updated review.


----------



## Garlan Garner

Rick Steinwand said:


> Now disconnect your external speaker wiring, and get us an updated review.


I don't have an external speaker.

2018 P3D+ ( All buttons checked )


----------



## Rick Steinwand

Garlan Garner said:


> I don't have an external speaker.
> 
> 2018 P3D+ ( All buttons checked )


Sorry, that probably came across as negative (and I should have read your review closer).

I also love the animations, but it's harder to open the trunk, frunk and charge port. I think this needs some luvin' and think it was rushed. I'm sure we'll see some tweaks in later updates.


----------



## Garlan Garner

Rick Steinwand said:


> Sorry, that probably came across as negative (and I should have read your review closer).
> 
> I also love the animations, but it's harder to open the trunk, frunk and charge port. I think this needs some luvin' and think it was rushed. I'm sure we'll see some tweaks in later updates.


Nahhh.....I didn't read it as negative. We are all good.

No problem at all.

What issue are you having with the trunk/frunk/charge port?


----------



## Rick Steinwand

Garlan Garner said:


> What issue are you having with the trunk/frunk/charge port?


It's just less obvious where to tap with the new layout for new users.


----------



## NR4P

After day 2 with this release and new visualizations, I am not thrilled.

When you drive normally, speed limit signs are to the right of the road (in the USA/Canada) so why is it no longer there?
It is now on top of the screen crowded with other speed indicators.

Actual speed is too small in the corner.

Too many icons crowded on top left of the screen.

What happened to battery colors on different state of charge? All I see is grey.

Can't really see brake lights on the screen at night

Can't easily see the accelerator/energy line on top of the screen, its so thin.

Boombox is cool, I don't have it due to early M3 but I want the speaker. I am tired of having to tap the horn in parking lots due to people being so self absorbed on phones they don't know I am driving near them. Then I get the dang evil eye for tapping the horn. Make the speaker a REASONABLE after market cost, please.

On the positive, the bigger car and doors/wheels actions look cool but they don't add to drivability. That's the key, and the new release detracts from driveability.


----------



## Ralleberg

What a “holiday update”...
Just got the update available and updated my brand new M3LR, which resulted in an error in the cabin heater stating “climate keeper unavailable due to system fault”. 
At outdoor temperature currently at 0 degrees Celsius this is not appropriate. 
Anyone else having this issue, and/or know a fix for this? 🥶


----------



## Kizzy

Ralleberg said:


> What a "holiday update"...
> Just got the update available and updated my brand new M3LR, which resulted in an error in the cabin heater stating "climate keeper unavailable due to system fault".
> At outdoor temperature currently at 0 degrees Celsius this is not appropriate.
> Anyone else having this issue, and/or know a fix for this? 🥶


Try a shutdown from Safety and Security in Settings? (Unless they changed that too.)


----------



## JustTheTip

Very minor quip but ugh. The very back of the car is covered up by the cards. This is just stupid. I want this specific card always visible. Zooming out is just too awkward too. Bleh.


----------



## TomT

Make me another! I liked the old layout much better!



BCinSD said:


> I'm adding my voice to those who are disappointed with the 2020.48.26 update.


----------



## vinnie97

testar said:


> Album art still not being displayed in *2020.48.26. *Model S. Listening to my music collection when I drive is very important to me. I much prefer listening to uncompressed HD music in my Tesla because I can with USB. The USB music player is getting worse and worse over time. It seems odd to me that no effort is being put into something as important as listening to music in your car. And so much effort is being put into games and farts. *What's up with that?*


Emphasis mine. The idiocracy has been in full bloom for decades, you merely have to look outside your window to see it.


----------



## Garlan Garner

JustTheTip said:


> Very minor quip but ugh. The very back of the car is covered up by the cards. This is just stupid. I want this specific card always visible. Zooming out is just too awkward too. Bleh.


Move it.


----------



## Garlan Garner

WOW....

I know bad comments are 98% of the time more prevalent than good comments....but geesh.



Most comments are about things looking different - not wrong/bad - or not working.


----------



## Garlan Garner

Tesla considers Boombox retrofit for older cars with no external speakers (teslarati.com)


----------



## Needsdecaf

Garlan Garner said:


> Move it.


You can't move the card.


----------



## Needsdecaf

Garlan Garner said:


> WOW....
> 
> I know bad comments are 98% of the time more prevalent than good comments....but geesh.
> 
> Most comments are about things looking different - not wrong/bad - or not working.


Not different. They are bad. Sure, the visualization is nice. But useful? Not at all. It's just toys. I'm glad you like it. I don't dislike it, but I greatly dislike what it has caused everything else to look like. Look what I posted above, the changes do make things harder to use. It's not simply just complaining about being different.

Left panel larger means every control panel pulled up on right is smaller, from radio to car controls, etc.

Speedo smaller and placed in a way that it's in closer proximity to similar looking read outs means harder to see speed.

energy flow bar much, much thinner and harder to read.

battery now gray on gray and harder to read

PRND display now lighter, less contrast, harder to read

rear view camera window smaller and harder to see.

map display smaller and harder to see.

So, sorry, i definitely classify that as "wrong / bad".

These are the things that have been given less real estate. youre saying you use these less often than the visualization?


----------



## ibgeek

Needsdecaf said:


> Yeah, that's been posted before. What a joke of an article. Elon responds to a tweet, and all of a sudden "Tesla is Teasing"? Give me a break.


You are correct about the article. I wouldn't have posted about it if I hadn't gotten a confirmation from my contact that it is actually in works. But to your point, I hate that news "services" think a tweet is worthy of an entire article. 
Looks like there will be a classic mode, what they are tentatively calling cyber mode and then one more that has yet to be named.


----------



## ibgeek

DocScott said:


> My take on some of these recent (and, in the first case, not-so-recent) features:
> 
> *Fart noises inside the car*: whoever is riding with you has to listen to you anyway. If you didn't have the fart noises, you'd probably be telling goofy jokes or listening to strange stuff on the sound system, or something. I'm fine with it as a feature, and people who don't care for it, don't use it.
> 
> *Boombox*: Useful where legal. It only works in park, so it could be OK for tailgating, picnics, etc.. I could see it for drive-ins, too, if you want to sit outside the car. I don't think I'd use this often if I had it, but once in a while it would come in handy.
> 
> *Customizable pedestrian warning sound*: A pedestrian warning sound is required by law in the US. It seems natural to make it customizable, within limits. But I don't like that people can customize it with any sound they want...these things need to be vetted. Too many people will use them for racist/vulgar/misogynistic/political/offensive/etc. things.
> 
> *Customizable horn*: Again, I'd be fine with this if it was limited to vetted choices. But allowing people their own sound clips? A good fraction of people will choose "[email protected]#% you!" or something like that. It will increase road rage, and make everyone think Tesla owners are jerks. EDIT: Only works in park (see post by iChris93 below). So no increased road rage, but still could make Tesla owners look like jerks: I suspect more than a few people will choose a wolf whistle and use it to harass women walking by.
> 
> *Fart noises outside the car*: No. Just no. Amusing to show off to family members and friends for a few minutes, perhaps. But primarily another way to make Tesla owners look like juvenile jerks.


Having the amount of available superchargers show live on the pins is super useful.

Love the new screen layout with the turn/lane info above the visualization if you have a window open over the map allows me to keep the rear view up so I really like that as well.

Lastly the lane keeping in AP/NOAP has been improved.


----------



## Mike

Garlan Garner said:


> I don't like the amount of battery left being black. - however I understand why its not green anymore.


Would you explain the logic regarding the change from green to black with respect to the amount of battery remaining please?

It eludes me. Thanks. Cheers.


----------



## Garlan Garner

Needsdecaf said:


> Not different. They are bad. Sure, the visualization is nice. But useful? Not at all. It's just toys. I'm glad you like it. I don't dislike it, but I greatly dislike what it has caused everything else to look like. Look what I posted above, the changes do make things harder to use. It's not simply just complaining about being different.
> 
> Left panel larger means every control panel pulled up on right is smaller, from radio to car controls, etc.
> 
> Speedo smaller and placed in a way that it's in closer proximity to similar looking read outs means harder to see speed.
> 
> energy flow bar much, much thinner and harder to read.
> 
> battery now gray on gray and harder to read
> 
> PRND display now lighter, less contrast, harder to read
> 
> rear view camera window smaller and harder to see.
> 
> map display smaller and harder to see.
> 
> So, sorry, i definitely classify that as "wrong / bad".
> 
> These are the things that have been given less real estate. youre saying you use these less often than the visualization?


I'm just glad we are not all the same.

I am a toy person - and I'm not going to apologize for it.

I LOVE it.

I didn't purchase my Tesla solely because its practical.

Again...I'm glad Elon isn't simply practical. ( FART MODE ) Thanks Elon.


----------



## Garlan Garner

Mike said:


> Would you explain the logic regarding the change from green to black with respect to the amount of battery remaining please?
> 
> It eludes me. Thanks. Cheers.


It was stated on twitter that the only thing green on the screen should be the turn signal and/or the green of a traffic signal.

Thats also the reason for the regen strip being smaller ( it has green in it ).


----------



## tencate

ibgeek said:


> Lastly the lane keeping in AP/NOAP has been improved.


It seems to me after about 100+ miles of driving around with this update that Autopilot does indeed behave better. Much smoother, a few places where it didn't know which lane to choose (1 to 2 lane uphill) now are done correctly, a sign that says "Speed Limit in Los Alamos County is 25 mph" no longer is treated like a real speed limit sign, etc. As for the interface, I REALLY miss the green in the battery and do wish they'd make the "regen" bar thicker. While disappointed with not getting FSD with this update, I've been waiting for 3 years now, I'd rather they get it right rather than a sudden bunch of accidents or even a fatality because they rushed.


----------



## Mike

Garlan Garner said:


> It was stated on twitter that the only thing green on the screen should be the turn signal and/or the green of a traffic signal.
> 
> Thats also the reason for the regen strip being smaller ( it has green in it ).


Thanks. They should make that icon a different color then...perhaps blue.

I'll assume at 20% SOC the battery icon will still go yellow (then red when below 10% (?)).


----------



## Mike

Mike said:


> Thanks. They should make that icon a different color then...perhaps blue.
> 
> I'll assume at 20% SOC the battery icon will still go yellow (then red when below 10% (?)).


Further to my last...I think it is a mistake to change the battery SOC status convention to something other than green.

It is part of the main propulsion system and until the self driving software passes the Turing test, it really needs to show as green.

Based on the tweet regarding the color green, does this meant the headlamp and foglamp indications will no longer be green?


----------



## littlD

skygraff said:


> Definitely have a right to be disappointed. I would hold off on this update if not for the fact I keep hoping each new update will fix what they broke in the last (major) update.
> 
> Looks like 12.1 fixed the Jeda hub bug but still no joy on voice commanded radio stations. Can't believe how few people have complained about that since hands free is a safety issue. Tesla needs to focus on stability of safety features before pushing out updates of gimmicks.
> 
> That said, I appreciate the improvements since purchase and realize that my voice command complaint regards something that didn't exist at delivery.


Totally agree on the radio stations voice command omission.

We do have at last count 184 documented commands (not including all the alternate ways to say).

And these are currently showing "This Command is not available yet":
"Select Radio"
"Select Spotify"

Maybe soon?


----------



## Bigriver

Did a test drive this afternoon and found one thing I like very much.... when I had the rear camera displayed, which totally covered my map and all navigation instructions, the next navigation turn shows up in the car graphic. I really like it there. I would like it there all the time.


----------



## Needsdecaf

Garlan Garner said:


> I'm just glad we are not all the same.
> 
> I am a toy person - and I'm not going to apologize for it.
> 
> I LOVE it.
> 
> I didn't purchase my Tesla solely because its practical.
> 
> Again...I'm glad Elon isn't simply practical. ( FART MODE ) Thanks Elon.


I too like the whimsy. Some things I care about, others not. Not asking you to be the same.

Taking away function for fun? Bad idea. This is a motor vehicle.


----------



## tivoboy

BCinSD said:


> I'm adding my voice to those who are disappointed with the 2020.48.26 update. This is the first time I've felt like a Tesla update is a step backwards. Like others, I don't like the smaller map and the grayed out battery icon. Granted, I enjoy watching my windows go up and down on the car graphic. However, the car avatar is too big and takes up too much valuable space.
> 
> I have a 2019 M3 (no external speakers) with chrome delete and the 18" aero cap kit. I love how my car is rendered on my phone app. However, with this latest update, my dashboard car is rendered with silver stock wheels. No offense to those of you who prefer silver wheels, but I don't like the look! I want my dark gray wheels back! ;-)
> View attachment 36506
> View attachment 36507


This is a very good point.. I'll say, if we don't have GREEN for full or mostly full battery is one thing, but if we don't get the Colored progression to I think Yellow /Orange / Red to indicate Battery SOC and status, that would be a real bummer.. just a diminishing grey/black battery showing Less fullness would be much less indicative than prior.


----------



## bwilson4web

I have not found a way to enable voice prompts for navigation. In the past, I'd click on a microphone icon and entered my destination address.

Bob Wilson


----------



## GDN

bwilson4web said:


> I have not found a way to enable voice prompts for navigation. In the past, I'd click on a microphone icon and entered my destination address.
> 
> Bob Wilson


Are you speaking of giving the car a new destination? I just press the right scroll wheel, and when the microphone appears say "Navigate to Home Depot". Did I misunderstand that?


----------



## JWardell

GDN said:


> I think one of the most confusing parts of this release is simply what they called "Customizable Horn", that is misleading and confusing. It isn't touching nor changing the horn sound and is only available in park. They should have really given this a new name, like Prankster Speaker.


They might as well just add a soundboard on the screen that has buttons for a dozen customizable sounds that you can play on your external speaker.
Just like we had on the handlebars of our BMX bikes back in the 80s.


----------



## francoisp

GDN said:


> I think one of the most confusing parts of this release is simply what they called "Customizable Horn", that is misleading and confusing. It isn't touching nor changing the horn sound and is only available in park. They should have really given this a new name, like Prankster Speaker.


The horn sound is always present but the boombox allows us to append an additional sound even in Drive. I am also able to have the coconut sound playing non stop in Drive.


----------



## JimmT

Installed it today and went for a 40 mile roundtrip drive. 

- AutoPilot seems solid, no problem with NOA.
- I have a 2018 RWD, so no fart on demand alas 
- I don't love the new layout but I will get used to it.
- My only two criticisms are: I prefer the colored battery status icon and I wish the regen\energy use bar was bigger like before.
- I don't mind the new location of the current Speed but I feel it's too crowded there with the Autopilot speed settings.

All-in-all, kind of a meh update but nothing really worth getting up in arms about. I'm sure Tesla will polish the rough UI edges in the next few releases.


----------



## Garlan Garner

Needsdecaf said:


> I too like the whimsy. Some things I care about, others not. Not asking you to be the same.
> 
> Taking away function for fun? Bad idea. This is a motor vehicle.


What function was lost?


----------



## lancegoddard

Only driven a few miles and haven’t really decided about the new appearance other than finding it harder to read some things with my aged eyes. One thing that I do like is now the boundaries of unmarked pavement show on the ½ mile one lane road I take to get to the first main road. It indicates to me that future updates will make use of other than fully painted lanes. Now if I could just have it stay to the right of the lane on minor highways and stop the phantom braking...


----------



## sterickson

I find the grey on white/black (day/night) to be a safety issue. My older eyes simply have great difficulty even seeing it.


----------



## Needsdecaf

Garlan Garner said:


> What function was lost?


It was in a previous post where I quoted you. Never said a specific function was lost. Functionality.

Such as..



sterickson said:


> I find the grey on white/black (day/night) to be a safety issue. My older eyes simply have great difficulty even seeing it.


----------



## Garlan Garner

sterickson said:


> I find the grey on white/black (day/night) to be a safety issue. My older eyes simply have great difficulty even seeing it.


Safety issue?

Click on the battery and the normal battery window pops up ( larger than life ) with the wonderful green battery pack.


----------



## Garlan Garner

Another reason I don't believe I'm having a problem with this update is because - I hardly ever use the map. 

2.5 years ago ( when I got my car )....I couldn't figure out why that map was permanently stuck on the screen. Since I was forced to keep it there.....I just learned to live with it.


----------



## sterickson

Garlan Garner said:


> Click on the battery and the normal battery window pops up ( larger than life ) with the wonderful green battery pack.


I can barely read the drive selector letters too. There's just too much that I have trouble seeing now, that I had NO trouble seeing before. And what's with some icons disappearing when I press on the brake and coming back when I release it (the auto pilot icon for one and I forget what the one next to it is, that also does it)?

Edit: The speed setting icon is the one I was thinking of, in addition to the Autopilot icon. Also the light grey lines delimiting the lanes and the light grey vehicle icons, like the drive selector and everything else is just really difficult for me to see now, when it wasn't before. And if I have difficulty reading the screen, because of a change they made, then yes, that's a safety issue.


----------



## Jason F

Bigriver said:


> Did a test drive this afternoon and found one thing I like very much.... when I had the rear camera displayed, which totally covered my map and all navigation instructions, the next navigation turn shows up in the car graphic. I really like it there. I would like it there all the time.
> View attachment 36509


That is a great example of how bad the speedo is now. It should be much larger than the other numbers. Just too many numbers all crammed together there.


----------



## DocScott

*^$*^%&%%$!

I decided to download this update, despite the concerns about the new UI, because I wanted the ability to limit charging to off-hours.

And...that's now what those new options do. As far as I can tell, I can now schedule _either_ a start time for charging _or_ an end time, but not both. If I set one, it won't let me set the other.

That's just dumb.

Tesla is clearly imagining a particular lifestyle: a long commute, with 220V home charging to top up each night.

Even pre-pandemic, that's not how we used our car. Neither me nor my wife had a regular daily car commute (I took my folding bike on the commuter train, for example). Some days, the car wouldn't leave the driveway. But we did like to take some fairly long day trips on the weekends. So the car would get used maybe 50 miles during the week, and then perhaps 120 miles on the weekend. So 170 miles in a typical week. (That's consistent with our total mileage since we got it, too.)

Our utility gives us the cheapest rates between midnight and 8 am. With 120 V charging, we can get maybe 40 miles a night during those periods. That gives us a potential 280 miles a week, which is less than we typically drive it, so it all works out.

But even with this update, we can't automate that. We can tell it to start charging at midnight, but then we have to manually stop it at 8 am. Or we can tell it to stop at 8 am, but then we have to stop it charging when we plug it in and then manually start it at midnight.

Not the end of the world, I know. But also something Tesla could implement very, very easily in their firmware. And yet, unless I'm missing a setting, they seem to be going out of their way not to do it!


----------



## iChris93

sterickson said:


> And what's with some icons disappearing when I press on the brake and coming back when I release it (the auto pilot icon for one and I forget what the one next to it is, that also does it)?
> 
> Edit: The speed setting icon is the one I was thinking of, in addition to the Autopilot icon.


This happened before this update so nothing new.



DocScott said:


> *^$*^%&%%$!
> 
> I decided to download this update, despite the concerns about the new UI, because I wanted the ability to limit charging to off-hours.
> 
> And...that's now what those new options do. As far as I can tell, I can now schedule _either_ a start time for charging _or_ an end time, but not both. If I set one, it won't let me set the other.
> 
> That's just dumb.
> 
> Tesla is clearly imagining a particular lifestyle: a long commute, with 220V home charging to top up each night.
> 
> Even pre-pandemic, that's not how we used our car. Neither me nor my wife had a regular daily car commute (I took my folding bike on the commuter train, for example). Some days, the car wouldn't leave the driveway. But we did like to take some fairly long day trips on the weekends. So the car would get used maybe 50 miles during the week, and then perhaps 120 miles on the weekend. So 170 miles in a typical week. (That's consistent with our total mileage since we got it, too.)
> 
> Our utility gives us the cheapest rates between midnight and 8 am. With 120 V charging, we can get maybe 40 miles a night during those periods. That gives us a potential 280 miles a week, which is less than we typically drive it, so it all works out.
> 
> But even with this update, we can't automate that. We can tell it to start charging at midnight, but then we have to manually stop it at 8 am. Or we can tell it to stop at 8 am, but then we have to stop it charging when we plug it in and then manually start it at midnight.
> 
> Not the end of the world, I know. But also something Tesla could implement very, very easily in their firmware. And yet, unless I'm missing a setting, they seem to be going out of their way not to do it!


This was how it was before this update. Unfortunate they haven't added the functionality to add and obey both start and stop times.


----------



## DocScott

DocScott said:


> *^$*^%&%%$!
> 
> I decided to download this update, despite the concerns about the new UI, because I wanted the ability to limit charging to off-hours.
> 
> And...that's now what those new options do. As far as I can tell, I can now schedule _either_ a start time for charging _or_ an end time, but not both. If I set one, it won't let me set the other.
> 
> That's just dumb.
> 
> Tesla is clearly imagining a particular lifestyle: a long commute, with 220V home charging to top up each night.
> 
> Even pre-pandemic, that's not how we used our car. Neither me nor my wife had a regular daily car commute (I took my folding bike on the commuter train, for example). Some days, the car wouldn't leave the driveway. But we did like to take some fairly long day trips on the weekends. So the car would get used maybe 50 miles during the week, and then perhaps 120 miles on the weekend. So 170 miles in a typical week. (That's consistent with our total mileage since we got it, too.)
> 
> Our utility gives us the cheapest rates between midnight and 8 am. With 120 V charging, we can get maybe 40 miles a night during those periods. That gives us a potential 280 miles a week, which is less than we typically drive it, so it all works out.
> 
> But even with this update, we can't automate that. We can tell it to start charging at midnight, but then we have to manually stop it at 8 am. Or we can tell it to stop at 8 am, but then we have to stop it charging when we plug it in and then manually start it at midnight.
> 
> Not the end of the world, I know. But also something Tesla could implement very, very easily in their firmware. And yet, unless I'm missing a setting, they seem to be going out of their way not to do it!


Update: I tried it last night, and it's actually not a "stop charging" time. Instead, as far as I can tell, it tells the car to _start_ charging at such a time that it will finish at the time you specify.

That's a much harder problem for the software than just being able to give a "stop" time! But at least it makes sense why you can't specify a "start" time and a "stop" time--the "stop" time is just a calculated start time.

That really reinforces what Tesla is picturing: they think you always want to leave home with your car charged to whatever limit you've set.


----------



## iChris93

DocScott said:


> Update: I tried it last night, and it's actually not a "stop charging" time. Instead, as far as I can tell, it tells the car to _start_ charging at such a time that it will finish at the time you specify.
> 
> That's a much harder problem for the software than just being able to give a "stop" time! But at least it makes sense why you can't specify a "start" time and a "stop" time--the "stop" time is just a calculated start time.
> 
> That really reinforces what Tesla is picturing: they think you always want to leave home with your car charged to whatever limit you've set.


That's also how it behaved previously.


----------



## Nom

Change! Arghhh!!!!!! 😄

I’m curious to give all the new adjustments a spin today. The one that makes me pause a bit is the battery color change. I’d love to hear why someone felt that was wise to do.


----------



## iChris93

Nom said:


> Change! Arghhh!!!!!! 😄
> 
> I'm curious to give all the new adjustments a spin today. The one that makes me pause a bit is the battery color change. I'd love to hear why someone felt that was wise to do.


Here is a supposed reason that was given 


Garlan Garner said:


> It was stated on twitter that the only thing green on the screen should be the turn signal and/or the green of a traffic signal.
> 
> Thats also the reason for the regen strip being smaller ( it has green in it ).


----------



## DocScott

iChris93 said:


> That's also how it behaved previously.


You're telling me that nothing has changed regarding this feature.

So what do the release notes mean when they say "To account for different utility rate plans, you can now set the time when your off-peak rates end to save on charging costs"?

It sure sounds like there is supposed to be some new behavior with this update.



GDN said:


> *Scheduled Departure Improvements*Scheduled Departure can now precondition your battery and cabin even when your car is unplugged. To account for different utility rate plans, you can now set the time when your off-peak rates end to save on charging costs. To access, tap SCHEDULE from the climate control or charging panel when parked.


----------



## iChris93

DocScott said:


> You're telling me that nothing has changed regarding this feature.
> 
> So what do the release notes mean when they say "To account for different utility rate plans, you can now set the time when your off-peak rates end to save on charging costs"?
> 
> It sure sounds like there is supposed to be some new behavior with this update.


It's slightly different. Previously if you had a charge end time set past 6am, IIRC, it would still end at 6am because it assumed all off peak charging ended at 6am. Now it works the same and ends at your end time whether it's before or after 6am.


----------



## SkipperOFMO

iChris93 said:


> It's slightly different. Previously if you had a charge end time set past 6am, IIRC, it would still end at 6am because it assumed all off peak charging ended at 6am. Now it works the same and ends at your end time whether it's before or after 6am.


I wish we could adjust our scheduled departure settings using the Tesla App.


----------



## Dogwhistle

SkipperOFMO said:


> I wish we could adjust our scheduled departure settings using the Tesla App.


Yes!! My work schedule is variable, so I'm constantly having to go out to the car to put in anew departure time. Just let me do it from the app please! You can take back all my cars farting abilities for this one feature!


----------



## mhwilson100

ever since the last update my signal for the radio/music packages (Decades etc) has been barely working... it says 3g with one bar... is Tesla's connection thru AT&T ?


----------



## iChris93

mhwilson100 said:


> ever since the last update my signal for the radio/music packages (Decades etc) has been barely working... it says 3g with one bar... is Tesla's connection thru AT&T ?


Yes, so it's not an issue with the update it's a result of the suicide-bombing that destroyed AT&T equipment.


----------



## Garlan Garner

sterickson said:


> I can barely read the drive selector letters too. There's just too much that I have trouble seeing now, that I had NO trouble seeing before. And what's with some icons disappearing when I press on the brake and coming back when I release it (the auto pilot icon for one and I forget what the one next to it is, that also does it)?
> 
> Edit: The speed setting icon is the one I was thinking of, in addition to the Autopilot icon. Also the light grey lines delimiting the lanes and the light grey vehicle icons, like the drive selector and everything else is just really difficult for me to see now, when it wasn't before. And if I have difficulty reading the screen, because of a change they made, then yes, that's a safety issue.


I too had trouble reading the drive selectors and all of those small icons and letters on the screen - until I realized that I'm having trouble reading letters all over the place in the world. Then I realized that the world isn't shrinking its lettering. My eyes were not at sharp as they used to be and I had to get some glasses.

Now.....the world has reset its font and have increased the font size everywhere.

Thanks Tesla and the world.


----------



## Jay79

I guess I’m In the minority that enjoys this update, I also don’t complain about free stuff.


----------



## Garlan Garner

Jay79 said:


> I guess I'm In the minority that enjoys this update, I also don't complain about free stuff.


We are both in the minority.

Anyone else? There is plenty of room over here with us.

I Love it.


----------



## motocoder

Jay79 said:


> I guess I'm In the minority that enjoys this update, I also don't complain about free stuff.


I wouldn't view it as complaining, but rather a way to pass along feedback to Tesla. And "free stuff" that makes the product less functional at its primary purpose (transportation) is a net negative. The UI changes, at the moment, are to many of us a net negative. Regarding the games and the advanced fart mode, I just wish the resources applied to that could instead be applied to fix the various bugs and usability issues (how about sorting the artist list in the Spotify UI).


----------



## motocoder

Garlan Garner said:


> I too had trouble reading the drive selectors and all of those small icons and letters on the screen - until I realized that I'm having trouble reading letters all over the place in the world. Then I realized that the world isn't shrinking its lettering. My eyes were not at sharp as they used to be and I had to get some glasses.
> 
> Now.....the world has reset its font and have increased the font size everywhere.
> 
> Thanks Tesla and the world.


Ha ha, so now I put on my glasses and can see the tiny, low contrast information on the display just fine, but.. Oh snap! I just clipped a mailbox because my near vision glasses make things at a distance, like objects on the road, very blurry. At the same time, I have zero issues reading the speedometer on my wife's RAV4, as well as objects on the road, wearing no glasses.


----------



## pweady

DocScott said:


> *^$*^%&%%$!
> 
> I decided to download this update, despite the concerns about the new UI, because I wanted the ability to limit charging to off-hours.
> 
> And...that's now what those new options do. As far as I can tell, I can now schedule _either_ a start time for charging _or_ an end time, but not both. If I set one, it won't let me set the other.
> 
> That's just dumb.
> 
> Tesla is clearly imagining a particular lifestyle: a long commute, with 220V home charging to top up each night.
> 
> Even pre-pandemic, that's not how we used our car. Neither me nor my wife had a regular daily car commute (I took my folding bike on the commuter train, for example). Some days, the car wouldn't leave the driveway. But we did like to take some fairly long day trips on the weekends. So the car would get used maybe 50 miles during the week, and then perhaps 120 miles on the weekend. So 170 miles in a typical week. (That's consistent with our total mileage since we got it, too.)
> 
> Our utility gives us the cheapest rates between midnight and 8 am. With 120 V charging, we can get maybe 40 miles a night during those periods. That gives us a potential 280 miles a week, which is less than we typically drive it, so it all works out.
> 
> But even with this update, we can't automate that. We can tell it to start charging at midnight, but then we have to manually stop it at 8 am. Or we can tell it to stop at 8 am, but then we have to stop it charging when we plug it in and then manually start it at midnight.
> 
> Not the end of the world, I know. But also something Tesla could implement very, very easily in their firmware. And yet, unless I'm missing a setting, they seem to be going out of their way not to do it!


If you're charging at 120V you might be able to use a smart plug to cut the power at a specific time. Probably not possible with 220V.


----------



## Gordon87

I just received my update notification. I have a 12/2018-build AWD. 

I really use the map. I thought this update improved notification of turns and exits off highways with complex lane configurations, which I would appreciate. However, since the reviews of this update have been generally negative — smaller font, smaller speedometer, much smaller space for map & back-up camera, greyed battery — I’m inclined to stick with 2020.48.12.1 for the time being.


----------



## sterickson

Garlan Garner said:


> I too had trouble reading the drive selectors and all of those small icons and letters on the screen - until I realized that I'm having trouble reading letters all over the place in the world.





motocoder said:


> Ha ha, so now I put on my glasses and can see the tiny, low contrast information on the display just fine, but..


My glasses work just fine, thank you. I could see everything just fine, prior to this update, and now it's all faded grey, and I cannot. I seriously doubt that my visual acuities took a nose-dive during the few minutes it took to install this update.


----------



## garsh

DocScott said:


> Not the end of the world, I know. But also something Tesla could implement very, very easily in their firmware. And yet, unless I'm missing a setting, they seem to be going out of their way not to do it!


I know it's frustrating that an easily-updated smart car can't handle the rather simple scenario that you have in mind.

If you ever give up on Tesla updating it to work the way you like, you might consider adding a timer switch to the charger side.
https://www.homedepot.com/b/Electri...Controls-Timers/240-volt/N-5yc1vZc334Z1z17ogy


----------



## msjulie

I am hoping some random twitter posts I've seen about customizing your whole display are true... I don't need the giant car in front of me, I do want the map and I have always wished for a Model S-like energy gauge (not seeming to get one) vs even less energy/regen feedback...


----------



## Garlan Garner

motocoder said:


> Ha ha, so now I put on my glasses and can see the tiny, low contrast information on the display just fine, but.. Oh snap! I just clipped a mailbox because my near vision glasses make things at a distance, like objects on the road, very blurry. At the same time, I have zero issues reading the speedometer on my wife's RAV4, as well as objects on the road, wearing no glasses.


I'm glad I'm not Elon.

I couldn't make a vehicle that fits everyone's needs either.


----------



## Garlan Garner

msjulie said:


> I am hoping some random twitter posts I've seen about customizing your whole display are true... I don't need the giant car in front of me, I do want the map and I have always wished for a Model S-like energy gauge (not seeming to get one) vs even less energy/regen feedback...


What do you use the map for?

I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything. Unless I put in a destination to go somewhere I need help with....the map is pretty much useless.

I wonder - How many times people put in destinations when they get in the car vs. how many times people don't put in destinations.

If Tesla uses numbers like those... maybe that's why they traded a little map real estate for FSD real estate.

I wonder if a map will be needed in the upcoming Tesla Fleet - when FSD is the "norm" and is no longer an exception. Is Tesla getting ready for their goals or ours? <----non sarcastic.


----------



## Garlan Garner

Only one person mentioned that AP is better. 

Anyone else notice?


----------



## Needsdecaf

Garlan Garner said:


> What do you use the map for?
> 
> I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything. Unless I put in a destination to go somewhere I need help with....the map is pretty much useless.
> 
> I wonder - How many times people put in destinations when they get in the car vs. how many times people don't put in destinations.
> 
> If Tesla uses numbers like those... maybe that's why they traded a little map real estate for FSD real estate.
> 
> I wonder if a map will be needed in the upcoming Tesla Fleet - when FSD is the "norm" and is no longer an exception. Is Tesla getting ready for their goals or ours? <----non sarcastic.


I use the map most times I drive. I drive a minimum of 90 miles a day on weekdays, and have several routes to choose from. I use both it and Waze to monitor traffic. I also find that with a destination programmed, the map display tilts in 3S and provides excellent visibility.

I also frequently travel to places I have not been before for work.



Garlan Garner said:


> Only one person mentioned that AP is better.
> 
> Anyone else notice?


I haven't taken any highway trips yet. Have tried to use it on surface streets but honestly can't tell any difference.


----------



## DocScott

pweady said:


> If you're charging at 120V you might be able to use a smart plug to cut the power at a specific time. Probably not possible with 220V.





garsh said:


> If you ever give up on Tesla updating it to work the way you like, you might consider adding a timer switch to the charger side.


Yes, that's one possible solution.

It makes me nervous, though.

I have absolute confidence that the charge port can handle an unexpected change in voltage up or down (when the switch/timer turns on or off) occasionally. But every day, day after day? If they didn't anticipate the need to have charging windows in the firmware, I'm not sure they would have anticipated that particular use in testing their hardware, either. I don't want to be that guy who a year after the warranty runs out finds he has an expensive repair that was caused by years of doing things the charge port didn't expect. Maybe it's fine? I'm a physicist, not an electrical engineer. But I think that's one experiment I'd rather not try.


----------



## DocScott

I've now driven a little bit with the new visualizations, and on balance I like them. I'm in my 50s, and have progressive glasses.

I thought I wasn't going to like the map being smaller, but once I was driving around I realized that it wasn't so much smaller as more square (I'm in a Model 3). The real estate that was lost was the stuff way off to the left or the right of the direction I'm going, which is some of the least useful information. If anything, trimming those parts off makes it easier to focus on the actual options facing me as I drive forward.

The stuff that I'm not supposed to be noticing, like the gears I'm not in, are very faint, but that makes the gear I _am_ in stand out more.

The speedometer and associated stuff are fine. In fact, it seemed easier to take in at a glance the important AP info (set speed, whether I could engage AutoSteer, etc.), although I'm hard-pressed to put my finger on why.

I found it much easier to use the controls on the visualization while in park. It used to be fidgety to hit the charge port open spot, but now it's easy. The trunk-open was a bit easier to get to, too.

Yes, the regen bar is _very_ thin. Perhaps they could widen that a tad in future updates. And the cards blocking the back of the car looks clumsy--they should work on that too. I get the feeling that the cards haven't yet been updated to fit the new layout, and that once they are that might be better.

Oh, and for those who were asking, the headlights when activated are still green.

In general, though, I'm pretty pleased with the new UI.


----------



## jmmdownhil

Garlan Garner said:


> What do you use the map for?
> 
> I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything. Unless I put in a destination to go somewhere I need help with....the map is pretty much useless.
> 
> I wonder - How many times people put in destinations when they get in the car vs. how many times people don't put in destinations.
> 
> If Tesla uses numbers like those... maybe that's why they traded a little map real estate for FSD real estate.
> 
> I wonder if a map will be needed in the upcoming Tesla Fleet - when FSD is the "norm" and is no longer an exception. Is Tesla getting ready for their goals or ours? <----non sarcastic.


Since we all have suggestions, how about auto expand the map when nav is activated? Or, as mentioned in many other posts allow some customization of screen real estate.

On the scale of big problems all this stuff is at the bottom of the list. However, Elon has trained all of us to expect/request (demand?) flexible and continuous improvements. And he has delivered....some good, some bad, some totally unnecessary, depending on individual views. I am as guilty as anyone. 
Now, when is the next update!?


----------



## rwsimon

“What do you use the map for?” What are the visualizations for? They are useful when you are parking the car and don’t want to hit something. Other than that, they serve no purpose whatsoever. When would you need to look at the virtual environment on the screen when you can just look out the windshield and see a far more detailed and accurate version? Yes, the information implied by the visualization is needed for the FSD system, but it is not of any value to the driver. Like many other people are saying, there is no value in taking up more screen area with something that is basically a gimmick of minimal practical value.


----------



## DocScott

rwsimon said:


> "What do you use the map for?" What are the visualizations for? They are useful when you are parking the car and don't want to hit something. Other than that, they serve no purpose whatsoever. When would you need to look at the virtual environment on the screen when you can just look out the windshield and see a far more detailed and accurate version? Yes, the information implied by the visualization is needed for the FSD system, but it is not of any value to the driver. Like many other people are saying, there is no value in taking up more screen area with something that is basically a gimmick of minimal practical value.


I understand your overall point, but I definitely use the visualization when preparing to change lanes. It's less dangerous, in my opinion, to glance at the visualization to see if it's clear than to look over my shoulder. I'll still often take a peek over my shoulder once I actually commit to the lane change, but my _first_ check is usually the visualization.


----------



## sterickson

DocScott said:


> I'll still often take a peek over my shoulder once I actually commit to the lane change, but my _first_ check is usually the visualization.


If you aren't looking over your shoulder *every* time, then you are allowing the visualization to enable bad/unsafe driving behavior in you. The visualization doesn't show you that speeding car that's out of range, but will be *right there* when you begin to change lanes ...


----------



## rwsimon

DocScott said:


> I understand your overall point, but I definitely use the visualization when preparing to change lanes.


A fair point. The visualization is what we have as a lane change safety device. Supposedly we may eventually make better use of a camera for that purpose. In any event, that use case does not justify taking up more screen real estate at the expense of the nav map.

I hope we will ultimately get to adjust the use of screen real estate to suit our individual preferences.


----------



## motocoder

Garlan Garner said:


> Only one person mentioned that AP is better.
> 
> Anyone else notice?


Yes, I just ran some errands around town and had a good opportunity to try it on both city and highway driving. I agree that it's noticeably better.


----------



## Garlan Garner

rwsimon said:


> "What do you use the map for?" What are the visualizations for? They are useful when you are parking the car and don't want to hit something. Other than that, they serve no purpose whatsoever. When would you need to look at the virtual environment on the screen when you can just look out the windshield and see a far more detailed and accurate version? Yes, the information implied by the visualization is needed for the FSD system, but it is not of any value to the driver. Like many other people are saying, there is no value in taking up more screen area with something that is basically a gimmick of minimal practical value.


You use the map to park the car?

Don't you mean that you use the cameras to park the car?


----------



## Chris350

Personally, I quite like the UI changes...

After just finishing up a 600 mile trip, this update performed very nicely.... 

The only disappointment in this update are the things that we thought we would get and didn't...

But the Santa mode was quite entertaining..... Love watching myself passing up slow reindeer!


----------



## motocoder

Garlan Garner said:


> I'm glad I'm not Elon.
> 
> I couldn't make a vehicle that fits everyone's needs either.


It's actually not hard to design a UI that is legible. There's a whole field in UX design called "design for accessibility", which is a requirement at many software companies (Apple, Microsoft, for example). Car makers have been creating legible, usable dashes for many decades.


----------



## Nom

Well, overall, I like it!! I REALLY like the speed indication shift as well as the other relevant info shifted up and to the left. Much quicker glance to see the most relevant info.

I can see doing that without having to give up map space. And the no green on the battery is silly. The headlight indicators are green, and the charge / regen bar is green (when charging). But can see the dark grey fine. 

I see this as iterative. And I’m ok with that.


----------



## motocoder

Nom said:


> Well, overall, I like it!! I REALLY like the speed indication shift as well as the other relevant info shifted up and to the left. Much quicker glance to see the most relevant info.
> 
> I can see doing that without having to give up map space. And the no green on the battery is silly. The headlight indicators are green, and the charge / regen bar is green (when charging). But can see the dark grey fine.
> 
> I see this as iterative. And I'm ok with that.


I think that's a good way to look at it. Let's see what it looks like when they're able to release the features they held back from this release.


----------



## Dick Blonov

iChris93 said:


> It's slightly different. Previously if you had a charge end time set past 6am, IIRC, it would still end at 6am because it assumed all off peak charging ended at 6am. Now it works the same and ends at your end time whether it's before or after 6am.


It's better now *but:*

- If you disable off peak, charging starts regardless of the departure time (I don't have on-peak, off-peak rates, I figured this would be the way to go. Not.)
- If you set off-peak end time too close to the current time, charging starts (Seems logical. But I'm not sure if it ends at the off-peak end time and resumes to be charged at the set departure time, or just ends charging).

Knowing this, I set the off-peak end past my departure time. This charging option needs a bit more work.

I would prefer a charging window with a departure time option.

Phil


----------



## ibgeek

Nom said:


> Change! Arghhh!!!!!! 😄
> 
> I'm curious to give all the new adjustments a spin today. The one that makes me pause a bit is the battery color change. I'd love to hear why someone felt that was wise to do.


Something to ponder... If the battery is only grey when it would have been green, perhaps that's not such a big deal. As long as it does still turn yellow or red (when you actually need to pay attention to it) that isn't so bad.
Haven't run my battery down that far yet since the update but just some food for thought.

Change is difficult for many people. I am not one of those people.


----------



## ibgeek

motocoder said:


> Ha ha, so now I put on my glasses and can see the tiny, low contrast information on the display just fine, but.. Oh snap! I just clipped a mailbox because my near vision glasses make things at a distance, like objects on the road, very blurry. At the same time, I have zero issues reading the speedometer on my wife's RAV4, as well as objects on the road, wearing no glasses.


I recommend variable lens glasses. Changed my life!


----------



## ibgeek

msjulie said:


> I am hoping some random twitter posts I've seen about customizing your whole display are true... I don't need the giant car in front of me, I do want the map and I have always wished for a Model S-like energy gauge (not seeming to get one) vs even less energy/regen feedback...


They are true. I have a contact at Tesla and got it confirmed. So far they are working on 3 modes. Classic, Cyber and as yet un-named.


----------



## ibgeek

Garlan Garner said:


> Only one person mentioned that AP is better.
> 
> Anyone else notice?


Yes it is better. Especially with regards to lane keeping on curvy roads. I also believe DirtyTesla put out a video on the youtubes about this very thing.


----------



## ibgeek

motocoder said:


> It's actually not hard to design a UI that is legible. There's a whole field in UX design called "design for accessibility", which is a requirement at many software companies (Apple, Microsoft, for example). Car makers have been creating legible, usable dashes for many decades.


Yes, but you see, I find the new UI perfectly legible so there in lies the rub. I wear glasses so my vision is not great by any stretch. But have zero issue with the new design.


----------



## sterickson

ibgeek said:


> Yes, but you see, I find the new UI perfectly legible so there in lies the rub. I wear glasses so my vision is not great by any stretch. But have zero issue with the new design.


You must not have problems with contrast then. Glasses don't help with that, so much. For me, the new UI's contrast is a big fail. I understand that it is not, for others.


----------



## ryantollefson

Battery does turn yellow; I'd assume it turns red too, didn't run it down that far to find out for sure.

My other thoughts:

Most of the changes are fine, I think people are being a little too sensitive to much of this
I think gears are easier to see what you're in now
Why do people care so much about the smaller energy gauge? That thing is a toy, you know if you floor it you're using a lot of energy, you can feel how much you're recovering by regen too.
I like seeing more cars in the visualization, and don't feel I'm missing anything with smaller map for my normal driving; I might feel different if doing a road trip in a new area.
I really don't like the new speedometer - I think that should be much bigger & set apart from the other speed numbers
Overall I'd say 2 steps forward, 1 step back.


----------



## bwilson4web

Perspective my friends:

Microsoft Windows - each upgrade meant about 10-15% of the workarounds broke and some features where turned off for "Solarwinds" security. 
MacOS - each upgrade pretty much worked like the last one. 
Tesla UI - some shifting around requiring a different operational scenario BUT the car still does what it was bought for.
Other than losing the video icon to turn on audio input, it mean using the right button to turn it on. Since then, no problem. I can adjust better than what Microsoft did to their customers.

Bob Wilson


----------



## ibgeek

ryantollefson said:


> Battery does turn yellow; I'd assume it turns red too, didn't run it down that far to find out for sure.
> 
> My other thoughts:
> 
> Most of the changes are fine, I think people are being a little too sensitive to much of this
> I think gears are easier to see what you're in now
> Why do people care so much about the smaller energy gauge? That thing is a toy, you know if you floor it you're using a lot of energy, you can feel how much you're recovering by regen too.
> I like seeing more cars in the visualization, and don't feel I'm missing anything with smaller map for my normal driving; I might feel different if doing a road trip in a new area.
> I really don't like the new speedometer - I think that should be much bigger & set apart from the other speed numbers
> Overall I'd say 2 steps forward, 1 step back.


To add to the bit about the map being smaller. It's really not an issue and now that you can see available supercharger stalls available at a glance, I'd venture to say it's better. 
I'll probably be running with the cameras up full time now that the turn info moves over to the visualization pane. Map only matters to me when setting up my initial destination. Beyond that, I occasionally look at traffic indications but that's it.


----------



## DocScott

sterickson said:


> If you aren't looking over your shoulder *every* time, then you are allowing the visualization to enable bad/unsafe driving behavior in you. The visualization doesn't show you that speeding car that's out of range, but will be *right there* when you begin to change lanes ...


Nope.

You're free to consider it bad/unsafe driving, but I'm pretty sure you're wrong that the visualization has enabled/ecnouraged it for me. I didn't look over my shoulder _every_ time before I had a Tesla, and I think the frequency with which I do that is about the same as now.

If I had to date the point at which I stopped looking over my should every time it would be about fifteen years ago. I was attempting a particular merge on to a parkway from an onramp which is always super-tricky. Traffic comes up very quickly and thickly, and there's almost no merge lane. So I looked over my shoulder to see if it was clear and...bam! I rear-ended the person ahead of me, who had been merging, but had unaccountably stopped. It wasn't high speed, and it didn't cause almost any damage, but it was an accident, and it was my fault.

Or maybe it was about twenty-five years ago, when I was attempting another one of these short merges on to a New York parkway. I peeked over my shoulder to see if it was clear, then looked back forward only to see, somewhat like the other situation, that the car in front of me had decided to come to a dead stop. In that one, I managed to careen off the road rather than hit him.

I haven't gotten in to a lot of accidents in my life, and certainly not a lot where I was at fault, but in both the actual collision and the near-collision I just described I would be at fault--you nearly almost are when you rear-end someone.

So since then I've been a little more cautious about the always-look-over-my-shoulder rule. I still do it when it's clear in front of me. But when there are cars in front of me, particularly during a tricky merge? Sometimes I'd rather rely on the side view mirrors, the rear view mirror, and the visualization, because at least what's going on directly in front of me remains in my peripheral vision at all times.


----------



## Mike

Garlan Garner said:


> Safety issue?
> 
> Click on the battery and the normal battery window pops up ( larger than life ) with the wonderful green battery pack.


I disagree. Having to click on something makes the situation less safe.

To quote some guy on the internet, "The best part is no part. The best process is no process."


----------



## rwsimon

Garlan Garner said:


> You use the map to park the car?
> 
> Don't you mean that you use the cameras to park the car?


I use the visualization - not the map - when parking near an obstacle. It shows the distance from a wall, barrier or other obstacle. Sorry I was unclear.


----------



## Mike

iChris93 said:


> Here is a supposed reason that was given


...regarding the loss of the green color for the battery SOC icon...

It feels very arbitrary to me, and the twitter comment doesn't include the logic behind the decision.


----------



## iChris93

Mike said:


> ...regarding the loss of the green color for the battery SOC icon...
> 
> It feels very arbitrary to me, and the twitter comment doesn't include the logic behind the decision.


Completely agree.


----------



## motocoder

ibgeek said:


> I recommend variable lens glasses. Changed my life!


I got rid of the "progressive lenses" at the advice of a physical therapist that was treating me for neck issues. Apparently, it causes you to tilt your head back / chin forward to bring objects (like a computer monitor) into focus, which over time leads to neck problems.

In any event, at least during the day time I can see the display just fine. I still hate that they made the map smaller. Hoping they bring in some screen customization features that address that. Of course, they'll probably choose to prioritize something like AI Farts over that...


----------



## Garlan Garner

Mike said:


> I disagree. Having to click on something makes the situation less safe.
> 
> To quote some guy on the internet, "The best part is no part. The best process is no process."


Less safe? how?


----------



## Garlan Garner

Mike said:


> ...regarding the loss of the green color for the battery SOC icon...
> 
> It feels very arbitrary to me, and the twitter comment doesn't include the logic behind the decision.


Logic? Who cares?

I saw green - so I proceeded to go through the intersection.


----------



## Gordon87

motocoder said:


> I got rid of the "progressive lenses" at the advice of a physical therapist that was treating me for neck issues. Apparently, it causes you to tilt your head back / chin forward to bring objects (like a computer monitor) into focus, which over time leads to neck problems.


I wear no-line trifocals, but I also got a pair of computer glasses for working on the computer at home (I don't drive with them). The computer glasses are also no-line trifocals, but the mid-range lens takes up most of the space, with a small lens on top for distance and the small reading lens on the bottom. So, I just look straight ahead and it is the perfect lens for the distance to my desktop/laptop monitor.

Of course, when I drive, I wear my regular glasses, so the mid-range lens is smaller, but it works for me to see the car's screen info.


----------



## Garlan Garner

motocoder said:


> I got rid of the "progressive lenses" at the advice of a physical therapist that was treating me for neck issues. Apparently, it causes you to tilt your head back / chin forward to bring objects (like a computer monitor) into focus, which over time leads to neck problems.
> 
> In any event, at least during the day time I can see the display just fine. I still hate that they made the map smaller. Hoping they bring in some screen customization features that address that. Of course, they'll probably choose to prioritize something like AI Farts over that...


Were you using the map that much? What was it doing for you? I'm just curios,

Amazingly surprised that people used it that much.

I would like to remove it all together and make it totally variable. I wonder how many Tesla's would be out there with the map on all of the time if the map display was totally variable.


----------



## iChris93

I think we’ve had enough discussion on the new UI. Love it or hate it, the map decreased in size and the contrast of some things decreased. Everyone is allowed to have their opinions and opinions are neither right or wrong.


----------



## Mike

Garlan Garner said:


> Less safe? how?


Everytime you lower your focus onto that screen while the car moves (other than the rear view camera while backing up), you increase the odds of having an incident.


----------



## Mike

Garlan Garner said:


> Logic? Who cares?
> 
> I saw green - so I proceeded to go through the intersection.


I care.

When I see green, I check other traffic before going thru an intersection.


----------



## Garlan Garner

Mike said:


> Everytime you lower your focus onto that screen while the car moves (other than the rear view camera while backing up), you increase the odds of having an incident.


I agree with you except for the fact that my ICE car has millions of knobs and buttons that take more time to understand and figure out than my Tesla.

Have you tried to find the heated seat button on a Kia for the first time? Or the "answer the phone" button on the steering wheel? I counted - there are 41 buttons and 7 knobs and a touch screen on my wife's Kia Niro.


----------



## Garlan Garner

Mike said:


> I care.
> 
> When I see green, I check other traffic before going thru an intersection.


When the battery signal was green - you checked the intersection every time? Now that its grey....


----------



## Garlan Garner

iChris93 said:


> I think we've had enough discussion on the new UI. Love it or hate it, the map decreased in size and the contrast of some things decreased. Everyone is allowed to have their opinions and opinions are neither right or wrong.


Ok @iChris93. Should we open up separate threads about these discussions?


----------



## ibgeek

Mike said:


> Everytime you lower your focus onto that screen while the car moves (other than the rear view camera while backing up), you increase the odds of having an incident.


Counter point: When I look out the front windshield, I see directly in front of me plus a little peripheral vision. 
When I look at the screen, I see all the way around my car. Is it perfect? No. But then again neither am I as any time I'm looking at one thing, I'm not seeing another. 
You add the 360 degree view plus the built in safety measures that the car employs and I'd venture to say you could probably (not saying I do) safely look at nothing but the screen.


----------



## Mike

Garlan Garner said:


> When the battery signal was green - you checked the intersection every time? Now that its grey....


You asked who cares. I answered, "I care".

And as a matter of fact, for every intersection I'm at, when I'm the lead car sitting at a red light, once the light turns green, I always make sure it is clear to do so.

My wife was t-boned about 12 years ago even though she had the green light.


----------



## jmmdownhil

Not a complaint, just an observation. Just noticed that the regen braking options are gone, or I can't find them. Previously there were 2 options. No issue for me as I always used the max choice.
Is this new with 48.26 or did it disappear on a previous update?


----------



## Garlan Garner

Mike said:


> You asked who cares. I answered, "I care".
> 
> And as a matter of fact, for every intersection I'm at, when I'm the lead car sitting at a red light, once the light turns green, I always make sure it is clear to do so.
> 
> My wife was t-boned about 12 years ago even though she had the green light.


I agree. You are correct. Everyone should check the light and traffic no matter what,

The complaint to Tesla/ not Elon on twitter was that "green means go" when you see it on the screen. People were requesting to take all Green (the color of the green in traffic lights ) off of the screen unless it was a green traffic light. That way they won't get confused when they saw it with their peripheral vision.

I didn't reply. I really didn't understand the request...because I never got confused about the icon being green. i thought to myself....oh well it won't bother me either way.

It was a long long discussion - and it looks like Tesla complied.


----------



## ryantollefson

jmmdownhil said:


> Not a complaint, just an observation. Just noticed that the regen braking options are gone, or I can't find them. Previously there were 2 options. No issue for me as I always used the max choice.
> Is this new with 48.26 or did it disappear on a previous update?


Still there under Driving menu.


----------



## Needsdecaf

ibgeek said:


> To add to the bit about the map being smaller. It's really not an issue and now that you can see available supercharger stalls available at a glance, I'd venture to say it's better.
> I'll probably be running with the cameras up full time now that the turn info moves over to the visualization pane. Map only matters to me when setting up my initial destination. Beyond that, I occasionally look at traffic indications but that's it.


Good for you. Many of us use maps for other than that.

Superchargers? Less than 0.5% of my destinations. I like the feature, but does not make up for the map being smaller.


----------



## iChris93

Garlan Garner said:


> Ok @iChris93. Should we open up separate threads about these discussions?


You're welcome to continue discussing here. Just be mindful that most of these things are opinions and so far it doesn't seem like anyone's has been changed.


----------



## motocoder

Gordon87 said:


> I wear no-line trifocals, but I also got a pair of computer glasses for working on the computer at home (I don't drive with them). The computer glasses are also no-line trifocals, but the mid-range lens takes up most of the space, with a small lens on top for distance and the small reading lens on the bottom. So, I just look straight ahead and it is the perfect lens for the distance to my desktop/laptop monitor.
> 
> Of course, when I drive, I wear my regular glasses, so the mid-range lens is smaller, but it works for me to see the car's screen info.


Thanks for taking the time to post that. I wasn't even aware you could do lenses like that. I am definitely going to look into it further to see if it's an option for me. Might have to get my glasses somewhere other than Zenni, though 😆


----------



## M3OC Rules

Be nice if they could just get FSD to work so we could be worrying about how big the time to destination overlay is on Netflix.


----------



## Mike

Garlan Garner said:


> The complaint to Tesla/ not Elon on twitter was that "green means go" when you see it on the screen. People were requesting to take all Green (the color of the green in traffic lights ) off of the screen unless it was a green traffic light. That way they won't get confused when they saw it with their peripheral vision.
> 
> I didn't reply. I really didn't understand the request...because I never got confused about the icon being green. i thought to myself....oh well it won't bother me either way.


Cheers and thanks for the background on the decision.

It's what it is, as they say.

I am somewhat concerned that a green icon could confuse a licensed driver with a green light, but I have seen stranger things in my travels.


----------



## jmmdownhil

ryantollefson said:


> Still there under Driving menu.
> View attachment 36526










This is my M-Y Driving menu and it's not there. Again, don't really care since I always used standard, just curious.
Also did a reboot and nothing changed.


----------



## motocoder

Garlan Garner said:


> Were you using the map that much? What was it doing for you? I'm just curios,
> 
> Amazingly surprised that people used it that much.
> 
> I would like to remove it all together and make it totally variable. I wonder how many Tesla's would be out there with the map on all of the time if the map display was totally variable.


Sometimes I use it to plan out a route for a scenic drive. Years ago I was on a motorcycle camping trip at Crater Lake. I wanted to change my route to my next way point, which was in Northern California. I quickly realized detailed map changes on a tiny screen (was using the Garmin GPS in my motorcycle) were impractical. I love that the Tesla has (had) the big map, although having way points would also be nice. When driving, I don't think it's as big a deal. It might be an issue if trying to do impromptu route changes to navigate around a road closure or traffic.


----------



## motocoder

Mike said:


> Cheers and thanks for the background on the decision.
> 
> It's what it is, as they say.
> 
> I am somewhat concerned that a green icon could confuse a licensed driver with a green light, but I have seen stranger things in my travels.


I think what this illustrates is that Tesla could benefit from a more formal process to prioritize features and UI changes. "Elon promised some dude on Twitter" isn't working as well now that the company and its products have matured. Personally, I'd love to see them put up a list of bugs and potential features and then let customers vote on them.


----------



## 2Kap

My .2 cents. I don’t mind the bigger visuals that much, BUT I do hope in a future update we get to choose the size of the screen partition.


----------



## iChris93

jmmdownhil said:


> View attachment 36527
> 
> This is my M-Y Driving menu and it's not there. Again, don't really care since I always used standard, just curious.
> Also did a reboot and nothing changed.


Are you sure it was ever there on the Y? Newer vehicles don't have the option because of some EPA rule, I think.


----------



## msjulie

Garlan Garner said:


> What do you use the map for?
> 
> I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything. Unless I put in a destination to go somewhere I need help with....the map is pretty much useless.


Not for me; unless I'm going on a long boring highway, I look at it surprisingly often to see traffic and generally wtf I am 

I have nearly 0% chance of paying for FSD and don't really want/need my car to drive for me. On occasion, mostly for fun, I let the EAP my car has drive for me mostly since I'm curious how well it will do but outside cruise my car generally does very little active driving functions.

Everyone is different and Tesla for sure can't easily make everyone happy but I generally think it a fail for someone to claim that something someone else finds useful isn't ...

I'm actually more disappointed in the bigger car image; honestly for me it was plenty already. And the new layout across the top doesn't differentiate as well the info that it used to do (for me). And making the battery charge no longer green due to some turn signal thing seems quite silly. Less information now; yeah sometimes less is more but sometimes less is just less.

As I mentioned, I really hope there will be some way to prioritize what matters to me; an example is turn instructions under the other items but sadly only when the map is covered? Why can't I elect to always have immediate nav info "in front" of me and not based on how the map is covered or not... I want to see regen/energy/battery info nearly always - jealous of Model S energy gauge .. come on customizations!


----------



## DocScott

iChris93 said:


> You're welcome to continue discussing here. Just be mindful that most of these things are opinions and so far it doesn't seem like anyone's has been changed.


My views have changed somewhat because of this discussion.


----------



## Garlan Garner

motocoder said:


> I think what this illustrates is that Tesla could benefit from a more formal process to prioritize features and UI changes. "Elon promised some dude on Twitter" isn't working as well now that the company and its products have matured. Personally, I'd love to see them put up a list of bugs and potential features and then let customers vote on them.


I really don't think this thread illustrates anything conslusive.

It has been found that people who like things are less inclined to post than those who have a problem with an item.

There is a lot of discussion, however there really aren't a whole lot of people who don't like it.

Lastly....if Elon/Tesla has chosen the venue of Twitter to communicate with customers.....then everyone should get on twitter to voice their opinions. 
What other CEO communicates with people like you and I via any medium?

I disagree that customers should drive anything in Tesla. Tesla needs to continue doing it the way they are doing it. Tesla wouldn't be Tesla if customers drove them. They would be like any other car vendor.


----------



## FRC

I have a feeling that (as a group) we would be complaining just as much if the visual had changed from what it is now to what is used to be before 48.26. It's not the details that bother us so much, it's merely the fact that things changed.

Elon set our expectations too high, and we are overreacting. Just my humble opinion.


----------



## ryantollefson

jmmdownhil said:


> View attachment 36527
> 
> This is my M-Y Driving menu and it's not there. Again, don't really care since I always used standard, just curious.
> Also did a reboot and nothing changed.


Strange, definitely different than mine.



iChris93 said:


> Are you sure it was ever there on the Y? Newer vehicles don't have the option because of some EPA rule, I think.


If so, that's too bad... I set up a "boring" mode profile for when my wife is in the car... it puts the car in Chill mode and sets regen to Low - helps make sure she doesn't get carsick on the windy roads. . I don't like it, but I like it more than not driving my car.


----------



## Needsdecaf

FRC said:


> I have a feeling that (as a group) we would be complaining just as much if the visual had changed from what it is now to what is used to be before 48.26. It's not the details that bother us so much, it's merely the fact that things changed.
> 
> Elon set our expectations too high, and we are overreacting. Just my humble opinion.


I understand where you are coming from. I do think that there is a small bit of people that are angry this wasn't V11. But I don't think that's where the majority of the complaints are coming from. Just my opinion, but I've been on car forums for 15 years, moderated as well, and have a good sense of "the crowd".

I've personally always looked forward to the "next software" starting with computers and then cell phones. I had a rooted android and would relentlessly download hacked custom versions of Android to play with the GUI. In my two years of Model 3 ownership, there have already been multiple smaller UI changes, none of which have resulted in this much rancor.

There would probably still be some of the "I liked the old way" regardless, but much less if it was well thought out and executed.


----------



## Bigriver

Not to throw fuel on the fire, but the battery icon is still green on the model X after the 48.26 update.... but they did reduce font size and make things harder to read. So that is the same. 








Disappointed that the X did not get the promotion of the rear camera icon to the bottom menu. I guess because there is less space, although they have always kept that bar the same between the cars before.


----------



## jmmdownhil

iChris93 said:


> Are you sure it was ever there on the Y? Newer vehicles don't have the option because of some EPA rule, I think.


Good point. I just assumed it was the same as the M3. Maybe multiple regen options were/are not on any M-Y (??).
What do other Y owners see for regen options?


----------



## jmmdownhil

motocoder said:


> I think what this illustrates is that Tesla could benefit from a more formal process to prioritize features and UI changes. "Elon promised some dude on Twitter" isn't working as well now that the company and its products have matured. Personally, I'd love to see them put up a list of bugs and potential features and then let customers vote on them.


And there would still be a big chunk of unhappy people who were on the "losing" side of the vote. With 1M++ Tesla owners there is no way that Elon will be able to keep everyone happy. Especially since there are frequent updates (contrary to any other auto manufacturer) many if which are probably based on the vast data collected by Tesla.


----------



## Needsdecaf

No matter what you think of the new graphics, you have to admit that this situation could happen is a little embarrassing.

Wonder if my brakes are on? Lol.


----------



## tencate

Garlan Garner said:


> Were you using the map that much? What was it doing for you? I'm just curios,
> Amazingly surprised that people used it that much.


I travel a lot and end up trying to find Superchargers I've never been to. Flagstaff has an especially fun one to find. I also did a stint delivering crepes for a friend's business when COVID first hit and the only thing restaurants could do was deliveries. A big map is essential for that too. I used it a _lot_. When navigating to a place I don't know, I also use the map, to give me an idea of where I'll be going. OK, eventually Max will do that better than me but for now, a big map is a huge plus for me. YMMV.


----------



## motocoder

Garlan Garner said:


> I really don't think this thread illustrates anything conslusive.
> 
> It has been found that people who like things are less inclined to post than those who have a problem with an item.
> 
> There is a lot of discussion, however there really aren't a whole lot of people who don't like it.
> 
> Lastly....if Elon/Tesla has chosen the venue of Twitter to communicate with customers.....then everyone should get on twitter to voice their opinions.
> What other CEO communicates with people like you and I via any medium?
> 
> I disagree that customers should drive anything in Tesla. Tesla needs to continue doing it the way they are doing it. Tesla wouldn't be Tesla if customers drove them. They would be like any other car vendor.


This isn't about product strategy. It's about prioritizing features that are on the periphery of the engineering investments. There should be separate strategies for big future looking things, like FSD, and choosing whether to fix this bug or that. I know all about the problems relying customers to drive new product ideas; you'll only get incremental changes over what the current product does. But you should talk with customers, and when you have millions of customers, you need some mechanism to understand the relative demand for different features. Random tweets to Musk don't come remotely close to achieving that.

And I think the evidence shows that Tesla has a pretty big gap in understanding what customers want. Advanced fart mode is a sterling example.


----------



## harrison987

So after spending some time today here are my final thoughts.

1) the expanded screen for the driver visualization is just really gimmicky. Most of the time I'm on a two-lane road... so there's one or two inches of each side that is completely wasted space.

2) I like the 2D profile of my car... Showing the open doors, open trunk, etc. But again it's just really gimmicky. It doesn't improve my driving experience or my experience "opening my doors". It made the screen look more modern... But I would have preferred a better update.

3) the screen layout makes no sense. I understand Tesla was trying to get the speedometer as far left as possible so it's easier for the driver to see... But everything looks completely crammed left. It made more sense to have the speedo centered... And all the extras around it like it had previously.

4) battery icon should be green.

5) the colors of the buttons at bottom of screen should be inverted back to black...as everything seems to blend in in a subdued Gray.

6) the layout of the aforementioned buttons makes no sense. The temperature being in the center did make sense until they changed it. No clue why there's a volume button on the far right... meanwhile the radio button is on the far left. Windshield washer button is left... Yet defrost are far right. things that should be grouped together so they make sense not spread out all over the place.

7) Did not need the camera button added to bottom. 

8) do not like my smaller map and smaller backup camera.

9) the off peak time charging does not work. Between 4:00 p.m. and 9:00 p.m. are peak hours for me... So I've programmed all off peak ending at 4:00... And charging to start at 9:00. 15 minutes ago at 8:35 p.m. ... My car started charging. Clearly there's a bug here.


----------



## Garlan Garner

motocoder said:


> This isn't about product strategy. It's about prioritizing features that are on the periphery of the engineering investments. There should be separate strategies for big future looking things, like FSD, and choosing whether to fix this bug or that. I know all about the problems relying customers to drive new product ideas; you'll only get incremental changes over what the current product does. But you should talk with customers, and when you have millions of customers, you need some mechanism to understand the relative demand for different features. Random tweets to Musk don't come remotely close to achieving that.
> 
> And I think the evidence shows that Tesla has a pretty big gap in understanding what customers want. Advanced fart mode is a sterling example.


I don't think there is a gap at all. People are buying Tesla's. People are buying Tesla's more than all other EV's combined. Tesla doesn't need to change anything about what they are doing. Not to mention a stock that is up over 1000% since 2019.

Tesla is developing tons of features and improving existing features based on twitter feedback. All you have to do is watch it happening on twitter. I ask again.....what other company / CEO is doing that? No gap


----------



## evannole

motocoder said:


> Ha ha, so now I put on my glasses and can see the tiny, low contrast information on the display just fine, but.. Oh snap! I just clipped a mailbox because my near vision glasses make things at a distance, like objects on the road, very blurry. At the same time, I have zero issues reading the speedometer on my wife's RAV4, as well as objects on the road, wearing no glasses.


Yes, similar issue here. I see well up close with no correction, and while I don't absolutely need glasses for distance, they do make things absolutely crystal clear for me and so I prefer to wear them when I drive. They're single-vision lenses, though, and since I have no difficulty reading small print up close with no glasses, I am not interested in getting progressives at this point.

With the pre-refresh UI, I can read the display pretty easily even with my distance glasses on. But I am holding off on updating to the new version due to its smaller fonts and greater crowding of information, as I fear it will be difficult to read with my glasses on.


----------



## Long Ranger

Garlan Garner said:


> Were you using the map that much? What was it doing for you? I'm just curios,
> 
> Amazingly surprised that people used it that much.
> 
> I would like to remove it all together and make it totally variable. I wonder how many Tesla's would be out there with the map on all of the time if the map display was totally variable.


I use the map on almost every drive. I've sometimes wished that the visualizations could be optional so that the map or reverse camera could be full screen.

Primary reason I use the map is to monitor traffic, to see which route the car recommends and to visually see which roads ahead look unusually busy. If you live anywhere with traffic, it's hard for me to understand why you wouldn't use this feature.

I like to see my ETA.

I like to compare how the ETA changes when I deviate from the recommended route, and sometimes the car suggests a new route that I never considered.

The satellite view is fun for discovering nearby things that aren't visible from the road.

On twisty two lane highways where I haven't memorized every turn, I like being able to see what the road does up ahead. Is there a sharp turn or a passing opportunity around the next corner?

I like seeing the exact distance to my next exit or turn off. Should I bother passing?

NOA and the trip energy estimates require a destination (but I suppose that's not exactly the same as requiring a visible map).

And once in awhile, I actually need directions to where I'm going.


----------



## JWardell

Lots of great points here:


----------



## bwilson4web

Apple has been OCD about user interface consistency. Speculation but loss of a former Apple manager back to Apple might have led to this inconsistent behavior.

Bob Wilson


----------



## francoisp

bwilson4web said:


> Apple has been OCD about user interface consistency. Speculation but loss of a former Apple manager back to Apple might have led to this inconsistent behavior.
> 
> Bob Wilson


I'm a Windows user so I'm used to bad UI choices. This release seems to be Tesla's Win8 moment.


----------



## slacker775

I just did a long drive down Florida on the new update. The new visualizations don’t bother me at all. I use the satellite map view all the time and it’s a little smaller but I can still see all of what matters - my path, upcoming turns etc. I don’t really care that the energy bar thing is smaller as. I never look at it anymore. I have better things to do with my mind and life than to worry about eking out every last molecule of regen power. I use regen, the car does what it does with that power, it’s all good. FSD worked well and was used for 80-90% of the drive down 75, but it has worked well for quite some time so I can’t be certain that there was any actual improvement. I did see some mention that it seemed to handle curved stretches of highway a bit better and that may be true. In the past it could sometimes get a bit to close to the outside edge for comfort, it seemed better now.

I’m not sure that I like the new UI better, but I don’t find it worse. Sure they could tweak up that card layout to give it a bit more fit and finish but I don’t use the on screen display to know if my brakes are on or not anyway so that’s purely eye candy.


----------



## Garlan Garner

JWardell said:


> Lots of great points here:


Are you kidding me? This guy is talking about the words of the trunk open and trunk closed buttons? How many people here remember what they used to say? 
He can't see that the trunk is open or closed via the graphic?

Press and hold seat heaters / battery? <--- It wasn't working like that before this update.

I love his analysis of the map. <--- no sarcasm here. I like it.

The last part of the video is purely subjective. How many people has he spoken to to suggest that "PEOPLE want to have ...... XYZ"? The world is becoming amazingly - individually selfish to suggest that "everyone" thinks like me.....that "everyone" wants what I want.

Everyone is NOT like you all of the time.

This guy is actually visibly upset. You let a UI in a car get you upset. WOW. Who is raising these people? He said at the top of the video that what he is saying isn't a complaint or rant or something like that.

I understand that this is the first post that I've ever made about "people" and this will be the last, but I just can't believe what parent's haven't or have done.

Its a UI. Its an unfinished UI that is due to change - per Elon.

(41) R-E-L-A-X - YouTube


----------



## msjulie

JWardell said:


> Lots of great points here:


So much of what he said is exactly what I was thinking; I get Elon wants the car to drive itself always someday but when that happens, why do I care about anything the car "sees"?

I wonder what the Roadster UI will look like, that would appear to be a car for drivers so maybe that UI will have emphasis on elements drivers (vs passengers?) would want/need vs infotainment and excessive whitespace. How about 'performance' dash


----------



## skygraff

Has anybody (with the external speaker) tried adding a silent custom sound? In other words, can a sufficiently long clip of no audio be used as the pedestrian warning “sound” to mimic a pre-external speaker, quiet EV?

Personally, I’m glad to have a silent EV since, at the speeds the pedestrian warning actually happens, modern ICE vehicles are just as quiet meaning EVs were singled out based on ignorance. At least Tesla’s having fun with a knee jerk over regulated design requirement.


----------



## JustTheTip

Garlan Garner said:


> Move it.


The only thing you can do is zoom out with the car but it always reverts back.


----------



## FRC

JWardell said:


> Lots of great points here:


I've never worked in the world of UI implementation. I watched half of this video and turned it off. Just way too much talk of minutiae. It comes across as needless whining about a UI that we all recognize as a work-in-progress. Sorry, not useful or interesting to me.


----------



## Needsdecaf

JWardell said:


> Lots of great points here:


An excellent video from someone who claims To have professional training in the area. Very clearly articulates what's wrong with this UI.

Clearly, judging by his tweets, Elon agrees. Calling it half a 🔥and already backpedaling that they will come out with other user definable views. Judging by @FRC 's source, he's clearly pissed.



FRC said:


> I've never worked in the world of UI implementation. I watched half of this video and turned it off. Just way too much talk of minutiae. It comes across as needless whining about a UI that we all recognize as a work-in-progress. Sorry, not useful or interesting to me.


The minutiae is important. This is a car we're talking about, not a cell phone.


----------



## Garlan Garner

JustTheTip said:


> The only thing you can do is zoom out with the car but it always reverts back.


My car doesn't do that.

I swipe it to the right and it goes away.

Try holding double scroll wheel for 20 seconds until the T logo comes on.


----------



## Garlan Garner

Needsdecaf said:


> An excellent video from someone who claims To have professional training in the area. Very clearly articulates what's wrong with this UI.
> 
> Clearly, judging by his tweets, Elon agrees. Calling it half a 🔥and already backpedaling that they will come out with other user definable views. Judging by @FRC 's source, he's clearly pissed.
> 
> The minutiae is important. This is a car we're talking about, not a cell phone.


What? Backpedaling? Read what Elon said.

Its just not complete. He said that before it came out. He said it is not complete. He didn't say there will be another one replacing this one. Where did you see that?

Its a UI. Why is someone pissed about a UI? Really?


----------



## Mikey

Tesla needs to not release UI changes like this without any way to turn it back. I take it it's their way of doing user study . Can we live with the new UI? Sure but that doesn't mean it's good. The left panel is too spacious now with very little info and the text size/color and icon spacing need further refinement. A thing about good UI is people take it for granted but you will hear people complain about bad ones without hesitation. Also the bigger the car animation, the more distracting it becomes even when self driving is enabled. In any case, I am sure Tesla can fix this as it just looks half baked right now.


----------



## Needsdecaf

JustTheTip said:


> The only thing you can do is zoom out with the car but it always reverts back.


Exactly. Someone on twitter suggested I move the card off the screen. I don't want to move the card off the screen. I actually use the info there. And if Tesla has the card function available, they should make it work so it doesn't block the animation when it's up.


----------



## ateslik

I’m super happy about the camera icon moving. My garage is really tight so I use the camera to watch that the back is clear from the door line. Now the cards don’t pop up over the camera icon when the g’dang kids prematurely take off their seat belts. Win!

I dig the bigger vector space. Gets me excited for FSD. The new 3D car render is half a flame for sure, especially with those animations. Looks dope af. 

Elon’s promised variable screen sizes will please most I think.

I’m on team “green battery”. 

Don’t care about any of the other changes. 

This thread is about 19 pages too long. 😂


----------



## Garlan Garner

I wonder what the UI would look like if everyone in this thread got what they want. 

Is that even possible?

Anyone here with any good graphic art techniques?


----------



## Quicksilver

ateslik said:


> I'm super happy about the camera icon moving. My garage is really tight so I use the camera to watch that the back is clear from the door line. Now the cards don't pop up over the camera icon when the g'dang kids prematurely take off their seat belts. Win!
> 
> I dig the bigger vector space. Gets me excited for FSD. The new 3D car render is half a flame for sure, especially with those animations. Looks dope af.
> 
> Elon's promised variable screen sizes will please most I think.
> 
> I'm on team "green battery".
> 
> Don't care about any of the other changes.
> 
> This thread is about 19 pages too long. 😂


Yes, Dang! huge thread! I am in the camp of staying with 48.12.1. I'll see what comes out after this last update. No rush to update at this point.


----------



## slacker775

Garlan Garner said:


> I wonder what the UI would look like if everyone in this thread got what they want.
> 
> Is that even possible?
> 
> Anyone here with any good graphic art techniques?


Oh boy would that be a mess!


----------



## Mike

After driving for about 90 minutes in mixed freeway and two lane highways, I would propose the large white space that has the car graphics be dynamic as follows:

When the car is in Park and the front quarter view graphic is displayed, the current white sector width is good.

Put the car into Reverse or Drive, the white sector should then automatically narrow (to the old software version width) and stay at the old software version width while driving on two lane streets/side-roads/highways.

When entering steets/roads/highways that are two lanes in each direction, then have the white sector widen to a point half way between pre .26 and post .26.

When on streets/roads/highways that are three (or more) lanes in each direction, then the white sector width on version .26 seems/seems to make some sense.

TL/DR: the only time the white sector width is as per version .26 is when one is in Park or driving on a road that has at least three lanes of traffic in ones direction. The white sector should be narrowed for all other scenarios.

And I really want the green battery icon back.


----------



## tivoboy

Mike said:


> After driving for about 90 minutes in mixed freeway and two lane highways, I would propose the large white space that has the car graphics be dynamic as follows:
> 
> When the car is in Park and the front quarter view graphic is displayed, the current white sector width is good.
> 
> Put the car into Reverse or Drive, the white sector should then automatically narrow (to the old software version width) and stay at the old software version width while driving on two lane streets/side-roads/highways.
> 
> When entering steets/roads/highways that are two lanes in each direction, then have the white sector widen to a point half way between pre .26 andp post .26.
> 
> When on streets/roads/highways that are three (or more) lanes in each direction, then the white sector width on version .26 seems/seems to make some sense.
> 
> TL/DR: the only time the white sector width is as per version .26 is when one is in Park or driving on a road that has at least three lanes of traffic in ones direction. The white sector shpuld be narrowed for all other scenarios.
> 
> And I really want the green battery icon back.


I REALLY like these ideas, I will say - though - that I think the dynamic nature of the adjustments between P and R and D and then maybe FSD, could possibly bring down the display controller or the max headroom of the CPU/GPU for the screen display. Just a thought. But, ultimately, I think a truly dynamic - and possibly selectable - set of display options is where this SHOULD go.


----------



## Greg Smith

I have a April 2018 Model 3 RWD. I just got back from a trip for a few appointments around town (Seattle area). Here are my feelings:
- the left side pane is slightly wider but not so much that it really takes away from the huge map area (when compared to almost any other car). 
- the current speed could be bigger but the other numbers are much smaller so I'm not going to be confused. It is readable. 
- I drove around with the card showing. I don't see what others are complaining about. When I select the card everything moves up. I only saw the card cover any portion of the car when driving (in certain situations) and then just below the license plates. 
- It doesn't bother me that the battery isn't green. Why does it need to be green? I like the concept that it turns colors when there is something to worry about, otherwise it can be gray. 

BTW, living in a high traffic area, I always use the map for traffic info and rerouting decision making.


----------



## M3OC Rules

The UI needs to balance aesthetics, safety, and usability. I think the video does point out things that are objectively bad and some subjective stuff. That Open on the trunk and frunk really threw me off and as pointed out it is easily solved. It took me a long time on the app to tell if the symbol was the state or the action for things like the door locks. That one is worse because you might not be able to see the car but still it should be obvious if possible. But I think you can make a strong argument that there is way too much information on there for a driver to be dealing with while driving. Some auto manufactures have limited what you can do when you're driving. It probably does make things safer but I hate that and that was even part of a buying decision on a previous car. It appears to me that Tesla is de-emphasizing some things which may be to try to reduce overload. The regen/power indicator for example. The larger autopilot size is more for FSD than autopilot but part of this is long term getting people used to the fact that the car can see what's going on around it. This was deemed necessary early on in Self driving car acceptance. In a sense it is providing some useful information of the surroundings while reducing unnecessary information. That's kind of a stretch but maybe becomes more relevant in the future. I do look to see if there is a car in my blind spot sometimes on the screen. 

I imagine Tesla takes these things pretty seriously, has UI experts, and debates a lot. But I also can imagine that Elon tweeting promises that the engineering team didn't sign up for can be infuriating and result in less than their best.

All in all I can see people's points but I am ok with the update. Some things I like and some will be changed and some will just take a little getting used to.


----------



## Mike

JWardell said:


> Lots of great points here:


Thanks for posting this.

This chap speaks to items in a manner similar to what I used to study back in my RCAF flying days...

****pit resource management, human factors in (military) aviation, "human tech", etc.

I agree with his rants, especially his examples of when the trunk/frunk open/close status is not immediately quantifiable or, for that matter, not seeing the green battery icon in your peripheral vision telling you your energy status without having to channel your attention to it.


----------



## ibgeek

JustTheTip said:


> The only thing you can do is zoom out with the car but it always reverts back.


I'm wondering if a few of you got a different version of the same build because things are noticeably different in mine.

For one the contrast is excellent. A full battery is easy to see because it's nearly black as apposed to grey. 
I have no contrast issue with the screen at all.

Also it is impossible for me to block my car with a card as you have shown. Doesn't matter if I'm driving or stationary, the card comes up and the car shrinks to fit.


----------



## Garlan Garner

ibgeek said:


> I'm wondering if a few of you got a different version of the same build because things are noticeably different in mine.
> 
> For one the contrast is excellent. A full battery is easy to see because it's nearly black as apposed to grey.
> I have no contrast issue with the screen at all.
> 
> Also it is impossible for me to block my car with a card as you have shown. Doesn't matter if I'm driving or stationary, the card comes up and the car shrinks to fit.
> 
> View attachment 36539
> View attachment 36540


Mine is the same as yours.

I'm not sure what the problem is on they other guy's car.


----------



## GaryW

If you're in the car, hit the charge port button on screen to open it and then hit it again to close it. My car completely shuts down. Think that's a bug.


----------



## Needsdecaf

ibgeek said:


> Also it is impossible for me to block my car with a card as you have shown. Doesn't matter if I'm driving or stationary, the card comes up and the car shrinks to fit.


so you've never seen your car slide and look like this?










or










or even worse:









All of these were without me touching the screen.


----------



## Greg Smith

Needsdecaf said:


> so you've never seen your car slide and look like this?
> 
> View attachment 36543
> 
> 
> or
> 
> View attachment 36542
> 
> 
> or even worse:
> 
> View attachment 36544
> 
> All of these were without me touching the screen.


I haven't seen that third one. Maybe just more driving I may see it, but it's not like you are missing anything. Do you really need to see the taillights while waiting first in line for a light? I'm sure they are going for maximum forward info in this case.


----------



## ibgeek

Needsdecaf said:


> so you've never seen your car slide and look like this?
> 
> View attachment 36543
> 
> 
> or
> 
> View attachment 36542
> 
> 
> or even worse:
> 
> View attachment 36544
> 
> All of these were without me touching the screen.


No, not once.


----------



## Needsdecaf

ibgeek said:


> No, not once.


Strange. Ill try a reboot but I don't seem to be the only one.

Maybe you shouldn't reboot!

the other odd thing is your full overhead view while on hold...were you parking?


----------



## Needsdecaf

Greg Smith said:


> I haven't seen that third one. Maybe just more driving I may see it, but it's not like you are missing anything. Do you really need to see the taillights while waiting first in line for a light? I'm sure they are going for maximum forward info in this case.


point is it never ever did that before this update. It looks dumb to have the visualization blocked.


----------



## garsh

ibgeek said:


> No, not once.


Mine did the one time I took it out.
So you not drive with the odometer card visible?


----------



## 2Kap

Random observation....anybody notice the charge port door closes a lot quicker and with much more force than before?


----------



## Kizzy

bwilson4web said:


> Apple has been OCD about user interface consistency. Speculation but loss of a former Apple manager back to Apple might have led to this inconsistent behavior.
> 
> Bob Wilson


Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder can be a serious mental illness. It is not an adjective.

Apple is probably the reason we have some of this (IMO) bad design. Thin fonts and low contrast. I wish Apple were no longer setting the GUI/on screen design trends. In the past couple of decades they've done some things to violate their own standards (and constantly changing them) leaves people behind.

Sorry. This turned into a rant.

Tesla was doing a fine job of refining the UI. And now it's being shifted suddenly and it is NOT taking accessibility to heart. One thing I WISH they took from Apple is the focus on adding deep integration with accessible technologies. Scaling UI, support for more contrast, grab handles so people can more easily get into the car (sorry, not software related, but it speaks to my point).

I guess my point in this rant is that I wish Tesla covered more needs before focusing so much on what seems cool. Maybe some of the changes were intended to help use, but others definitely hinder it.


----------



## Garlan Garner

Kizzy said:


> I guess my point in this rant is that I wish Tesla covered more needs before focusing so much on what seems cool.


Who's needs?

Did you mean wants?

I like cool. I already had everything I needed in my Tesla in 2018 - which is why I purchased the car.

For example: I ordered FSD with my car....but I didn't "need" it - still don't - Its cool though.


----------



## aresal

Just tried out the new off-peak time function of scheduled charging. Set to 4PM to stop. Plugged in at 1PM and the car started to charge itself right away. I checked at 430PM and the car was still charging, despite the off-peak setting. Not ready for prime time.


----------



## ibgeek

Needsdecaf said:


> Strange. Ill try a reboot but I don't seem to be the only one.
> 
> Maybe you shouldn't reboot!
> 
> the other odd thing is your full overhead view while on hold...were you parking?


No I was at a stoplight. I'll keep an eye on it thought and let you know it I see your issue pop up.
If you close the card when it does this and then re-open it, is it still this way?


----------



## ibgeek

garsh said:


> Mine did the one time I took it out.
> So you not drive with the odometer card visible?


Sometimes I do when traveling but most of the time I don't. Especially now that I can have the energy screen up and still see navigation info.


----------



## samujohn3

The tire pressure gage is missing! Why?


----------



## ibgeek

samujohn3 said:


> The tire pressure gage is missing! Why?


Please elaborate, all of the indicators are still there. They just line the left side. The tire pressure card is still where it always was.


----------



## FRC

samujohn3 said:


> The tire pressure gage is missing! Why?


My tire pressure card is still where it always was, a left swipe away.


----------



## orekart

garsh said:


> My dad installed an old AAAA-OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-GA horn in our truck back in the day.


FYI the technical name is a klaxon, for anyone interested in searching to find what this is in reference to.


----------



## Needsdecaf

ibgeek said:


> No I was at a stoplight. I'll keep an eye on it thought and let you know it I see your issue pop up.
> If you close the card when it does this and then re-open it, is it still this way?


Yes.
it's random. Sometimes ok. Sometimes just hugging the bumper. Sometimes obscuring the plate.


----------



## ryantollefson

Starting to see some little bugs 


Had to reformat my flash drive for it to show up for TeslaCam (right after update finished)
USB Device malfunction - this was 2 days later (I have Jeda hub + USB flash drive + Tesla wireless charger):









Unplug hub fixed it, but kinda annoying to do that.


Just noticed duplicate passenger airbag notification on the rear camera:


----------



## Bigriver

Wow, a lot of thread to read if you don’t read it for half a day...

I also noticed the card blocking my car graphic on my first drive. But I just went on a quick 5 mile test drive and tonight I could not make it block the back of the car graphic. I’m not smart enough to have quickly deciphered the difference of when it’s happening and when it’s not. I think I’ve experienced some blockage before this update, tho. Specifically when backing up at a supercharger, I think the card was sometimes in the way so that I couldn’t see the distance.

I’m totally in @Kizzy’s camp about thin fonts and low contrast. It is extremely important to make the car information available to a broad demographic. For me personally, while I can read everything, it takes an extra moment that just shouldn’t be necessary. Reminds me of when I once thought I’d mount an iPad for navigation in a car - what a wonderful big map! But the font was just too small (and unchangeable) to use in a driving situation. Here, in the model 3, the changes they have made that lowered the contrast seem unnecessary and are the biggest problem, I think. In the model X the biggest problem is the max set speed is SO tiny. I think someone may have inadvertently programmed that as a subscript or a superscript. 🤨 I might add a magnifying glass to my X’s cubby supplies.

Despite all these things, I’m actually really liking the car graphics. It has come such a long ways from the days of dancing cars. It looks sleek and I think would be wowing any of us if it was our first time in a Tesla.


----------



## GDN

Very minor, but I believe the backup camera went all the way to the edge so they had to overlay the seat belt reminder. Now that the camera has a smaller view they've got it on the screen twice.


----------



## Klaus-rf

GDN said:


> Very minor, but I believe the backup camera went all the way to the edge so they had to overlay the seat belt reminder. Now that the camera has a smaller view they've got it on the screen twice.


Good catch!!


----------



## Needsdecaf

Garlan Garner said:


> What? Backpedaling? Read what Elon said.


I did.


----------



## sduck

GaryW said:


> If you're in the car, hit the charge port button on screen to open it and then hit it again to close it. My car completely shuts down. Think that's a bug.


I can't reproduce that bug. Works like it should on my car.

Although i still can't tune the radio. It's been stuck on the same station for several updates now.


----------



## bwilson4web

samujohn3 said:


> The tire pressure gage is missing! Why?


I found swiping the kWh/mi display and then swiping left brought the tire pressure card up.

Bob Wilson


----------



## jdbunda

Speed +/- buttons - where did they go?

I have several roads I travel where the database speeds are incorrect, and others where traffic moves faster than the posted limit. I used the + and - a lot, can’t seem to find a mention of this change anywhere. Are they moved? Gone?


----------



## Greg Smith

jdbunda said:


> Speed +/- buttons - where did they go?
> 
> I have several roads I travel where the database speeds are incorrect, and others where traffic moves faster than the posted limit. I used the + and - a lot, can't seem to find a mention of this change anywhere. Are they moved? Gone?


Don't you use the right thumb wheel for that? Much easier and safer.


----------



## garsh

Garlan Garner said:


> Oh no..... some people are going to be upset because the car doesn't dial 119 also. Brace yourselves.
> 
> Tesla hints at Emergency Call feature with 911 support (teslarati.com)


Garlan, please refrain from belittling other people's concerns by throwing out a ridiculous strawman.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum


----------



## Garlan Garner

Needsdecaf said:


> I did.
> 
> View attachment 36548


I understand the fonts being super small on the model S/X since that screen is small anyway.

I don't see that as a back pedal or anything. but. it doesn't matter.

Maybe Tesla should just put everything back the way it was.....with no more UI updates - and just be like every other car vendor.


----------



## Garlan Garner

garsh said:


> Garlan, please refrain from belittling other people's concerns by throwing out a ridiculous strawman.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum


ok deleted.


----------



## testar

So, I just tried out 2020.48.26 on my Model S. They reduced the size of the text on the Instrument Panel to about 60% of what it was before. Why do you think Tesla thought it would be a good idea to make information like how fast you are going even smaller than it was? Everything on that display is now so much harder to see at a glance. What was the point of that??


----------



## iChris93

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1344013374879911939They rushed something unpolished out. Should improve.


----------



## GDN

jdbunda said:


> Speed +/- buttons - where did they go?
> 
> I have several roads I travel where the database speeds are incorrect, and others where traffic moves faster than the posted limit. I used the + and - a lot, can't seem to find a mention of this change anywhere. Are they moved? Gone?


Several people have asked about these and the microphone button for voice input (both topics on my local Tesla club FB pages). There may be good times when you'd want to use either of these, but I see these icons being removed as improving safety.

Both the speed and the microphone input can both be controlled by the right scroll wheel which is easily used without taking your eyes off the road. If you have to find an icon/button on the screen to invoke these items then you are taking your eyes off the road. Anytime Tesla can help keep your eyes on the road, you'll be safer.

There are only a couple of physical buttons in the car, I like to use them for their intended uses. One might argue the same for the volume, but it is on the right of the screen where a passenger might also want to adjust the volume. Not many other things I want a passenger adjusting while I'm driving.


----------



## msjulie

Greg Smith said:


> Do you really need to see the taillights while waiting first in line for a light?


Do you need to see the car at all while at a light?

Since they gave me the ability to see lights on my car, I use it now to confirm what I guess - my brake lights are on or my headlights are on etc. This feels like a bug and I hope the newer Elon tweets are true; this update went backwards in usability in many ways with one (for me) possible highlights and even that was done in an anti-pattern for UI.

Moving next-nav instruction over more towards driver is good but the fact that only when the map is covered is actually bad as that bit is now a moving target and disruption for muscle memory .

Your eyes expect things in logical places, they learn where they actually are on top of that and a moving around delays access. Good idea sadly not well executed.

Tesla would learn a lot if they had one-back revert; I am really curious in how many people get a particular upgrade and find it less useful and revert back. This probably would be a biggie as the less than positive feedback on various media platforms only seems to be increasing.


----------



## Bigriver

testar said:


> So, I just tried out 2020.48.26 on my Model S. They reduced the size of the text on the Instrument Panel to about 60% of what it was before. Why do you think Tesla thought it would be a good idea to make information like how fast you are going even smaller than it was? Everything on that display is now so much harder to see at a glance. What was the point of that??


Yeah, the vast majority of people on this thread have a model 3, so that is the majority of the comments. But the font reduction on the S/X was bad and pointless. It's like if 11 pt font is what you are comfortable reading a document in, suddenly having to read it in 8 or 9 pt font. And quickly as you want to only glance at the instrument cluster display.



Garlan Garner said:


> I understand the fonts being super small on the model S/X since that screen is small anyway.


I respectfully disagree. Needed font size is defined by readability, not the screen size. It is actually a little further from my eyes than the top corner of the model 3 display, so if anything, bigger text is needed. Also, the screen size didn't get reduced, but the font size did. It all fit fine before and was readable. They reduced, rearranged things like time and temp, and created more pointless blank space, as Ben Sullins tweet nicely showed. Look at the size of the font in his trip meter - that is unchanged and good. Then compare it to the font along the bottom and, my pet peeve, the font of the cruise control speed, which becomes even smaller when CC is turned on because they squeeze the word "max" into it.

Nice to have Elon's comments that more changes to the UI are coming, and I am fully hopeful that they will correct the glitches they created.


----------



## pweady

Here's a strange one. Before this update I could say "Take me home" and it would set a navigation route to my house. After this update it now searches for a place called "me home". If I say "Take me to home" it works fine. It's funny how these little things get changed.


----------



## Dogwhistle

I really don’t understand Tesla’s (Elon’s) fascination with the driving visualization. I never look at at to make a decision while driving, it provides no useful operational information. It’s a gee-whiz thing for passengers who have never been in a Tesla before. If the car does something wonky while on Autopilot, I never look down at the visualization and think “gee, let’s see why the car thinks I need to run off the road.” The only time I even glance at it, is when everything is running correctly, and if its running correctly, why do we need it at all? It really is wasted screen space, I’d like it back for other useful info.


----------



## Garlan Garner

Dogwhistle said:


> I really don't understand Tesla's (Elon's) fascination with the driving visualization. I never look at at to make a decision while driving, it provides no useful operational information. It's a gee-whiz thing for passengers who have never been in a Tesla before. If the car does something wonky while on Autopilot, I never look down at the visualization and think "gee, let's see why the car thinks I need to run off the road." The only time I even glance at it, is when everything is running correctly, and if its running correctly, why do we need it at all? It really is wasted screen space, I'd like it back for other useful info.


I like it.

Going to make it bigger when the option of screen size comes out. 
ex. I look for red on the screen ( peripheral glance ) when changing lanes.. It has forced me to use my turn signal EVERY time I change lanes....because the red doesn't work without using the turn signals. NOW...the red is even bigger.

I don't need the map at all.


----------



## Needsdecaf

Garlan Garner said:


> I understand the fonts being super small on the model S/X since that screen is small anyway.
> 
> I don't see that as a back pedal or anything. but. it doesn't matter.
> 
> Maybe Tesla should just put everything back the way it was.....with no more UI updates - and just be like every other car vendor.


Tesla releases new UI, first in a long time. Less than 5 days later it's CEO publicly says "We need a UI overhaul".

If that's not a backpedal then I don't know what is.

Also, the answer to every complaint against Tesla isn't to stomp your feet and complain that everyone thinks the same, and that we all want Tesla to be like everything else, blah, blah, is, quite frankly, pretty over the top. We get it. You're a huge Tesla fan and think that Elon is a visionary. Guess what, criticizing Tesla doesn't mean that we disagree with you.

No one company or person gets everything right. There are always complaints with every update but by in large, they are relatively low volume. For this update it's pretty clear, by both the user's opinion as well as by Elon's own admission, they screwed it up. Tesla is a quite flawed company, especially service wise, but most people seem to forgive them.

But recognizing their flaws, calling them out, but still sticking with the product and being willing to recommend isn't a flaw. It's called constructive criticism. And it's a healthy part of any relationship.


----------



## Mike

GDN said:


> Very minor, but I believe the backup camera went all the way to the edge so they had to overlay the seat belt reminder. Now that the camera has a smaller view they've got it on the screen twice.


Off topic: I see in your photo that the LTE signal is not present.

Is that normal for your situation when leaving home base?

Is so, I had the same issue(s) with poor LTE reliability for the first two years of ownership until I made a case that some hardware must be at fault.

Since my LTE (a specific line replaceable unit) was replaced this spring, it has worked flawlessly.


----------



## Mr. Spacely

Dogwhistle said:


> I really don't understand Tesla's (Elon's) fascination with the driving visualization. I never look at at to make a decision while driving, it provides no useful operational information. It's a gee-whiz thing for passengers who have never been in a Tesla before. If the car does something wonky while on Autopilot, I never look down at the visualization and think "gee, let's see why the car thinks I need to run off the road." The only time I even glance at it, is when everything is running correctly, and if its running correctly, why do we need it at all? It really is wasted screen space, I'd like it back for other useful info.


The "fascination" with driving visualization is pretty logical to me. Elon is preparing us for the future. When you are flying a plane you rarely look out the window. In fact when you receive your instrument rating you are actually blindfolded right up until you actually land. As the car gets closer to actual self driving, the screen will be as important than having a windshield. Even now I look at the visualization prior to a lane change since that is where the car in your blind spot will show in red.


----------



## Garlan Garner

Needsdecaf said:


> Tesla releases new UI, first in a long time. Less than 5 days later it's CEO publicly says "We need a UI overhaul".
> 
> If that's not a backpedal then I don't know what is.
> 
> Also, the answer to every complaint against Tesla isn't to stomp your feet and complain that everyone thinks the same, and that we all want Tesla to be like everything else, blah, blah, is, quite frankly, pretty over the top. We get it. You're a huge Tesla fan and think that Elon is a visionary. Guess what, criticizing Tesla doesn't mean that we disagree with you.
> 
> No one company or person gets everything right. There are always complaints with every update but by in large, they are relatively low volume. For this update it's pretty clear, by both the user's opinion as well as by Elon's own admission, they screwed it up. Tesla is a quite flawed company, especially service wise, but most people seem to forgive them.
> 
> But recognizing their flaws, calling them out, but still sticking with the product and being willing to recommend isn't a flaw. It's called constructive criticism. And it's a healthy part of any relationship.


When did Elon say that the update was incomplete? The same day as the release? Yes!

He told everyone it wasn't finished. He said it was incomplete. What else should he have said? That's what I meant when I said "read what he said".

Even the version/release number says it isn't v11. Its still v10.

If either Tesla or Elon said - This is version 11 - its done....then yes - backpedaling would be necessary.

Lets see what it looks like when the version number is 11. I believe they put this out just to have something out by Christmas / New Years - which was actually a promise. Should they have waited? maybe...

I hope they have learned that even free stuff has to be perfect these days.

Lastly - If you followed my posts - I have been the main one complaining about the terrible Tesla service and the charge port door and the 32amp charging being out of warranty.. Yes, I'm a fan, but I also heavily criticize when necessary.


----------



## Gatica

Needsdecaf said:


> so you've never seen your car slide and look like this?
> 
> View attachment 36543
> 
> 
> or
> 
> View attachment 36542
> 
> 
> or even worse:
> 
> View attachment 36544
> 
> All of these were without me touching the screen.


Mine acts the same way, though I don't leave the cards up all the time so its not much of an issue for me.


----------



## Mike

Bigriver said:


> and created more pointless blank space, as Ben Sullins tweet nicely showed.


The pointless extra (white) blank space is my issue with this new update as well (TM3).


----------



## Needsdecaf

Mr. Spacely said:


> The "fascination" with driving visualization is pretty logical to me. Elon is preparing us for the future. When you are flying a plane you rarely look out the window. In fact when you receive your instrument rating you are actually blindfolded right up until you actually land. As the car gets closer to actual self driving, the screen will be as important than having a windshield. Even now I look at the visualization prior to a lane change since that is where the car in your blind spot will show in red.


Consider that not everyone has purchased or even wants FSD on their Tesla. I for one am very happy with having TACC / AS and can enjoy my car with just that.

Optimizing the UI for something that's on an unconfirmed timeframe that costs 25% of the car seems a bit presumptuous to me. If you need a different UI when running FSD, go ahead and knock yourself out. The FSD beta testers clearly have a different UI, while the rest of us were on the standard. I think either a forced split (I.e. applies only if you buy FSD) or a switchable system (i.e. you can have the FSD soecific UI if you want but otherwise don't need it) is a good solution.


----------



## serpico007

Maybe because we are not driving much during covid restrictions in various parts of North America, that we don't get as much time to adjust to the new UI in all car models. Every time I get in the S, my eyes and brain are still not adjusted to the new UI layout. I'm sure if I was driving every day commuting to work this would be a different story.

I still think if this wasn't complete, Tesla should have waited to add the full UI update. But knowing a little about code, I'm sure they couldn't comment out the UI sections everywhere without introducing more bugs.


----------



## Garlan Garner

I believe in the future....

Not having FSD will be the extreme minority - Especially when the fleet rolls out.

So....maybe v11 ( when it comes out ) will be for the future majority of all Tesla's.


----------



## ibgeek

Dogwhistle said:


> I really don't understand Tesla's (Elon's) fascination with the driving visualization. I never look at at to make a decision while driving, it provides no useful operational information. It's a gee-whiz thing for passengers who have never been in a Tesla before. If the car does something wonky while on Autopilot, I never look down at the visualization and think "gee, let's see why the car thinks I need to run off the road." The only time I even glance at it, is when everything is running correctly, and if its running correctly, why do we need it at all? It really is wasted screen space, I'd like it back for other useful info.


*Conjecture:* I do not believe fascination was the reason the visualization was created. It is there to show wary users what the car is capable of seeing and doing. 
Elon knew it wasn't enough to just tell someone that the car can see 360 degrees. People want proof. Also I imagine it is a bit of a marketing tool. As passengers see all the cool things that the car is doing there on the screen and it grabs their attention.


----------



## Garlan Garner

I also believe that Elon is too much of an optimist when it comes to everyone else. I've said this before but...

If Elon could fully commit himself to writing v11 code - it would have been fully complete and tested by Christmas. Unfortunately not everyone is like him and its quite possible that he thinks people are like him.

For goodness sake - he wrote a mapping program by himself from scratch in a week - when he was in high school. It was maping code that put garmin to shame. 

He friggin sleeps at the end of the Tesla assembly lines. He just moved to Austin Tx to get the factory done.

Elon - Nobody does that. CEO's don't do that Elon. Elon - very few other people are like that. Don't expect that kind of thing out of people - not even the best people.

Anyway....I will say this: Tesla would not be who they are without someone exactly like him.


----------



## M3OC Rules

Garlan Garner said:


> I believe in the future....
> 
> Not having FSD will be the extreme minority - Especially when the fleet rolls out.
> 
> So....maybe v11 ( when it comes out ) will be for the future majority of all Tesla's.


FSD is not even the majority. When it actually works you don't need any visualization. The only exception I can think of is getting people comfortable with the cars ability to sense the world around it. It will still be cool to have but the whole UI can be rethought at that point since you no longer need to pay attention to the road. They could even integrate it into the map which could be really cool as well. But the idea of designing the UI for a future time for a minority of users seems suboptimal.


----------



## Garlan Garner

M3OC Rules said:


> FSD is not even the majority. When it actually works you don't need any visualization. The only exception I can think of is getting people comfortable with the cars ability to sense the world around it. It will still be cool to have but the whole UI can be rethought at that point since you no longer need to pay attention to the road. They could even integrate it into the map which could be really cool as well. But the idea of designing the UI for a future time for a minority of users seems suboptimal.


FSD is not even in the majority? Of course it isn't.

That's why my post started with " I believe in the future"

Read the post immediately following this one.


----------



## ibgeek

Needsdecaf said:


> Consider that not everyone has purchased or even wants FSD on their Tesla. I for one am very happy with having TACC / AS and can enjoy my car with just that.
> 
> Optimizing the UI for something that's on an unconfirmed timeframe that costs 25% of the car seems a bit presumptuous to me. If you need a different UI when running FSD, go ahead and knock yourself out. The FSD beta testers clearly have a different UI, while the rest of us were on the standard. I think either a forced split (I.e. applies only if you buy FSD) or a switchable system (i.e. you can have the FSD soecific UI if you want but otherwise don't need it) is a good solution.


I do understand your feelings on this, but that's not the true intent of this car. Like it or not, this car was designed to be a FSD vehicle. Those who choose not to use these functions are forever going to be dissatisfied because that is what it was developed for.
I believe your use case was more of a means to and end. You were used to aid in the building of data miles so that FSD could advance. All future development will be aimed at the furtherment of FSD.

Like it or not, this is the truth.


----------



## SoFlaModel3

Here is my addition to this thread... overall I like where they are going, but some avoidable quirks if they didn't rush this out.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1344010235871170560


----------



## Mike

SoFlaModel3 said:


> Here is my addition to this thread... overall I like where they are going, but some avoidable quirks if they didn't rush this out.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1344010235871170560


I don't belong to Twitter, can you provide an executive summary of the point you wish to pass? Thanks.


----------



## sterickson

ibgeek said:


> Like it or not, this is the truth.


Like it or not, the truth is that my car is never going to be able to do FSD (true FSD, all the time, able to drive in all conditions I can now), when in even a moderate rain storm it can't use NOA; a few minutes into a snow storm it can't do TACC (because there's a little snow on the bumper), or it gives up because some camera that can't clean itself is either blocked or blinded.


----------



## Klaus-rf

Mr. Spacely said:


> In fact when you receive your instrument rating you are actually blindfolded right up until you actually land.


 Pilots are NOT blindfolded - only the outside world (windows) is blanked off. You can still see the instruments - they're REQUIRED for IFR. Otherwise we would have blind pilots.


----------



## Needsdecaf

ibgeek said:


> I do understand your feelings on this, but that's not the true intent of this car. Like it or not, this car was designed to be a FSD vehicle. Those who choose not to use these functions are forever going to be dissatisfied because that is what it was developed for.
> I believe your use case was more of a means to and end. You were used to aid in the building of data miles so that FSD could advance. All future development will be aimed at the furtherment of FSD.
> 
> Like it or not, this is the truth.


I guess the nice thing is that we can all have opinions so I can wholeheartedly disagree with this.

I have put over 50k miles in Model 3's in two years exactly. I very much enjoy driving and own several cars which could be classified as driver's cars, including one dedicated 200 MPH sports car.

The Model 3 is a fine driver's car. It suffers from a relatively unpolished suspension but that is easily remedied. I mean, even Jason Cammisa, a very well respected auto journalist who is normally all over manual transmissions and naturally aspirated engines states that he thinks the Model Y is the best car you can drive today, and completely understands why so many Tesla owners are ex-BMW owners. Hint, it's not the luxury, Tesla is quite far behind on that.

So no, I soundly reject the theory that the Model 3 was designed to be primarily a self driving car and is only good in this mode. And I think there are plenty of people who agree with me.

I also believe that it's great that it's being developed as one, and that it's great that people who don't want to drive will soon have the option not to. I'm more than happy to have those cars being controlled by a computer, rather than someone who would rather be anywhere else than behind the wheel. I get that for many / most people, it's a chore they would rather avoid.

People discuss a future where autonomous vehicles are an inevitability. I don't believe that they are, and acting like they are isn't going to make it happen any faster. It will come when it comes. I respect Elon for pushing the envelope. But I see a future that's different, where people still have individual choice for a long time. FSD will continue to develop and I believe will evolve into a highly functional L3 system. L4 and above I believe is well down the road.


----------



## jdbunda

Greg Smith said:


> Don't you use the right thumb wheel for that? Much easier and safer.


Been driving my car for 2+ years and never knew the right scroll wheel did this. I've used the press for voice input, and side-to-side for following distance, but had no idea it did this. Ha!


----------



## garsh

ibgeek said:


> Like it or not, this car was designed to be a FSD vehicle.


The Model 3 was also designed to be driven on a race track. 

Different strokes for different folks.


----------



## M3OC Rules

sterickson said:


> Like it or not, the truth is that my car is never going to be able to do FSD (true FSD, all the time, able to drive in all conditions I can now), when in even a moderate rain storm it can't use NOA; a few minutes into a snow storm it can't do TACC (because there's a little snow on the bumper), or it gives up because some camera that can't clean itself is either blocked or blinded.


You might be right but current behavior is not necessarily indicative of future performance.


----------



## Needsdecaf

garsh said:


> The Model 3 was also designed to be driven on a race track.
> 
> Different strokes for different folks.


Exactly. It does after all have a track mode. I have two friends who are track nuts who own / have owned Model 3'a that they have tracked. One extensively. He's within a second of his old record at Lime Rock Park he set in a 996 GT3 in an almost completely stock Model 3. Very impressive performance.

i can't for the life of me figure out why people are so anxious to shun the experiences of others. It's so prevalent in our culture today, especially online. "My opinion / experience is validated therefore yours must be invalid". Well, no, that's not how the world works. As you say, different strokes for different folks. Personally I HATE chocolate ice cream, yet I realize I'm in a huge minority. That doesn't mean I'm an idiot, or those people who like chocolate ice cream are fooling themselves. It's just my taste.

Why do people act so differently about opposing viewpoints on other things?


----------



## Garlan Garner

FSD is not a tool - Its an objective. 

Its not like feautres like "youtube / netflix / fart noise / games".

FSD is a primary objective. 


If you want something to tell you how to get somewhere - ask your phone or any other car.

If you want something to take you somewhere - ask a Tesla. 


Tesla has something that sets them apart from the competition. 

Many cars can now keep you in the lane of your choice, but few - if not any can get you to a destination. 


To me.... its not the fact of whether each Tesla owner likes it or has it or will use it. 

Its the fact that its an objective that others ( car companies ) can't compete with yet. 

Even if I didn't have FSD - I would cheer for Teslas objective / goal. 

That's just me.


----------



## Garlan Garner

Needsdecaf said:


> i can't for the life of me figure out why people are so anxious to shun the experiences of others. It's so prevalent in our culture today, especially online. "My opinion / experience is validated therefore yours must be invalid". Well, no, that's not how the world works. As you say, different strokes for different folks. Personally I HATE chocolate ice cream, yet I realize I'm in a huge minority. That doesn't mean I'm an idiot, or those people who like chocolate ice cream are fooling themselves. It's just my taste.
> 
> Why do people act so differently about opposing viewpoints on other things?


I believe the people on the other side of your viewpoint feel exactly the same way.


----------



## Mr. Spacely

Klaus-rf said:


> Pilots are NOT blindfolded - only the outside world (windows) is blanked off. You can still see the instruments - they're REQUIRED for IFR. Otherwise we would have blind pilots.


Maybe blindfolded isn't the right term. When I learned to fly the instructor put a blind on me like a horse would wear so that I could only look down at the gauges and couldn't look up to see out the windshield.


----------



## Needsdecaf

Garlan Garner said:


> I believe the people on the other side of your viewpoint feel exactly the same way.


If you are implying that I have been shouting down the opinions of others then I apologize. I do not mean to. If someone tells me that I'm an idiot for having my opinion, I will react accordingly. But if their opinion differs from mine, I do not wish to do that very thing.


----------



## ibgeek

Needsdecaf said:


> If you are implying that I have been shouting down the opinions of others then I apologize. I do not mean to. If someone tells me that I'm an idiot for having my opinion, I will react accordingly. But if their opinion differs from mine, I do not wish to do that very thing.


We are all a pretty passionate bunch. It's easy to get carried away when it's something that you truly believe in. I'm not a stranger to over-reacting.  But unlike some of the other forums I've tried related to Tesla, I don't think anyone in here is an idiot. (looking at you Tesla official forum!)


----------



## Needsdecaf

ibgeek said:


> We are all a pretty passionate bunch. It's easy to get carried away when it's something that you truly believe in. I'm not a stranger to over-reacting.  But unlike some of the other forums I've tried related to Tesla, I don't think anyone in here is an idiot. (looking at you Tesla official forum!)


The Tesla official forum....I joined for about 2 days 2 years ago. Man, if you DARE say one negative thing there, you're a FUDSTER, a fraud, etc. Brutal.


----------



## Garlan Garner

Hopefully 2020.48.30 has fixed something about what people want. 

Its out now.


----------



## JustTheTip

Garlan Garner said:


> My car doesn't do that.
> 
> I swipe it to the right and it goes away.
> 
> Try holding double scroll wheel for 20 seconds until the T logo comes on.


I want the card to display.


----------



## sterickson

M3OC Rules said:


> You might be right but current behavior is not necessarily indicative of future performance.


Except that, according to Elon, my car has everything it needs, now, to do FSD. I personally think he's full of crap, in this regard. In my opinion, it only has what it likely needs to eventually do FSD, in good weather only. For all other conditions, I believe I was sold a bill of goods. Others are, of course, free to disagree with my opinion in this matter.

Edit: I'd be quite happy to be proven wrong and forced to stuff both feet in my mouth. But I'm not holding my breath, waiting for it.


----------



## Sjohnson20

After 5 days of driving with it I’m used to the new layout. I kind of like it better than the old one. If they make an option to go back I will stick with this. Maybe I would make the map a little bigger? I can see it just fine though. The browser is a little weird now it’s partially cut off but I rarely use it.


----------



## Garlan Garner

sterickson said:


> Except that, according to Elon, my car has everything it needs, now, to do FSD. I personally think he's full of crap, in this regard. In my opinion, it only has what it likely needs to eventually do FSD, in good weather only. For all other conditions, I believe I was sold a bill of goods. Others are, of course, free to disagree with my opinion in this matter.
> 
> Edit: I'd be quite happy to be proven wrong and forced to stuff both feet in my mouth. But I'm not holding my breath, waiting for it.


You should sell your car.

You aren't stuck with your car.


----------



## harrison987

Mr. Spacely said:


> The "fascination" with driving visualization is pretty logical to me. Elon is preparing us for the future. When you are flying a plane you rarely look out the window. In fact when you receive your instrument rating you are actually blindfolded right up until you actually land. As the car gets closer to actual self driving, the screen will be as important than having a windshield. Even now I look at the visualization prior to a lane change since that is where the car in your blind spot will show in red.


Right... Except when I'm flying a plane I do not have another plane 3 ft from my wing on every side... And another one in front of me 12 ft away. When I'm flying in formation...I am certainly not looking at my instruments... I'm looking at the other planes around me.

The driver will always... ALWAYS have to look forward. Relying on a 10" screen to make calculated decisions will never happen...ever.

The driver visualization is pointless. It is generally a gimmick to make it look like you're in a more futuristic car.

After having an M3 for 2.5years I would say the only things I focus on are the speed I'm going... And the speed limit sign. Occasional glance to see if the icon is up showing me I can engage autopilot...Everything else is completely pointless. I look at the rest of the driver visualizations maybe 10% of the time.... And that's when I'm stuck in rush hour traffic. "Cool... My camera is showing me a visualization that there's an SUV beside me... Yep that's an SUV.". "Nope... That's not a traffic cone... That's a fire hydrant"

in short, the visualization doesn't do anything to enhance the driving experience or make it safer to drive.


----------



## M3OC Rules

y cool.


sterickson said:


> Except that, according to Elon, my car has everything it needs, now, to do FSD. I personally think he's full of crap, in this regard. In my opinion, it only has what it likely needs to eventually do FSD, in good weather only. For all other conditions, I believe I was sold a bill of goods. Others are, of course, free to disagree with my opinion in this matter.
> 
> Edit: I'd be quite happy to be proven wrong and forced to stuff both feet in my mouth. But I'm not holding my breath, waiting for it.


I don't think anyone really knows how good this will get but I think it will get much more resilient than it is now in terms of weather. The radar is not necessarily needed for example. Right now Autopilot requires lane lines but that clearly won't be required as can be seen in the FSD beta. There also have been tests of FSD beta where they block many of the cameras and the car still drives surprisingly well. I'll believe it when I see it but I believe are less fundamental problems than you think and that's what gives Elon confidence.


----------



## ibgeek

Needsdecaf said:


> Strange. Ill try a reboot but I don't seem to be the only one.
> 
> Maybe you shouldn't reboot!
> 
> the other odd thing is your full overhead view while on hold...were you parking?


Ok just did it for me as well. Seems like a random bug. Maybe fixed in this update that just popped up.


----------



## DocScott

Garlan Garner said:


> You should sell your car.
> 
> You aren't stuck with your car.


Wait--what?

I agree that the M3 I was sold, in 2018, doesn't have all the hardware it needs for L5 autonomy (which means it could do it in any weather a person could). And Elon Musk clearly said it did. And when I bought my car I believed him, so yes, I was "sold a bill of goods" when it came to the potential for L5 autonomy.

But I love my M3! Why in the world should I sell it?


----------



## Garlan Garner

DocScott said:


> Wait--what?
> 
> I agree that the M3 I was sold, in 2018, doesn't have all the hardware it needs for L5 autonomy (which means it could do it in any weather a person could). And Elon Musk clearly said it did. And when I bought my car I believed him, so yes, I was "sold a bill of goods" when it came to the potential for L5 autonomy.
> 
> But I love my M3! Why in the world should I sell it?


Because you were sold a bill of goods.

You don't have what you bought/want.


----------



## M3OC Rules

DocScott said:


> Wait--what?
> 
> I agree that the M3 I was sold, in 2018, doesn't have all the hardware it needs for L5 autonomy (which means it could do it in any weather a person could). And Elon Musk clearly said it did. And when I bought my car I believed him, so yes, I was "sold a bill of goods" when it came to the potential for L5 autonomy.
> 
> But I love my M3! Why in the world should I sell it?


Can you prove he's wrong?


----------



## DocScott

M3OC Rules said:


> Can you prove he's wrong?


No, I can't. It's possible that the vision algorithms can be improved enough to deal with the degree of obstruction regularly encountered from light snow or roadspray. But I don't think it will.

Does the fact that I think the hardware for my car can't support L5 autonomy mean that I should sell it? I would be very unhappy if that were the case.


----------



## DocScott

Garlan Garner said:


> Because you were sold a bill of goods.
> 
> You don't have what you bought/want.


I know this is a semantic distinction, but it's one you seem to be getting hung up on it with me and sterickson:

1. I think I was "sold a bill of goods" when it comes to future L5 autonomy capability. I don't think the car has the capabilities or potential capabilities I was promised. I could be wrong, but that's my current belief.

2. I love my car, and I don't want to sell it.

Those statements are not contradictory. I don't think I "should" sell my car just because I think it doesn't have all the capabilities it was promised to have.


----------



## sterickson

DocScott said:


> I know this is a semantic distinction, but it's one you seem to be getting hung up on it with me and sterickson:
> 
> 1. I think I was "sold a bill of goods" when it comes to future L5 autonomy capability. I don't think the car has the capabilities or potential capabilities I was promised. I could be wrong, but that's my current belief.
> 
> 2. I love my car, and I don't want to sell it.
> 
> Those statements are not contradictory. I don't think I "should" sell my car just because I think it doesn't have all the capabilities it was promised to have.


I could not have said this better, and completely agree.


----------



## evannole

Klaus-rf said:


> Pilots are NOT blindfolded - only the outside world (windows) is blanked off. You can still see the instruments - they're REQUIRED for IFR. Otherwise we would have blind pilots.


Yes. And what's more, no one has an instrument rating for driving on the street, nor do our cars' displays provide enough information to make that possible in a safe and effective manner. They don't update nearly as quickly as the eye can perceive changes in the real world, so there's really no reason at all to be looking at the display while driving, unless you are trying to determine what the car actually sees to give you confidence about using FSD in the future, and even that should be done sparingly.

We also don't have ATC guiding us, keeping other traffic away from us, and vice versa. I also think that you usually have a lot more time to respond to a typical emergency situation in the air than you do on the road.

For what it's worth, I am not a pilot, but have worked in the commercial aviation industry for over 20 years.


----------



## msjulie

Garlan Garner said:


> Hopefully 2020.48.30 has fixed something about what people want.
> 
> Its out now.


Too quick to be a meaningful change? Waiting on screen grabs from updates now


----------



## garsh

msjulie said:


> Too quick to be a meaningful change? Waiting on screen grabs from updates now


It's just bug fixes. But hopefully it fixes some of the bugs people have noticed.


----------



## SoFlaModel3

Mike said:


> I don't belong to Twitter, can you provide an executive summary of the point you wish to pass? Thanks.


Overall I like where they are going, but...

I don't like the indicator lights in fixed spots down the left hand side. Since some (never all) will be on a lot of the time it leads to floating icons that seem out of place.

The dead space below the battery indicator is odd.

I like that turn-by-turn directions show on the left when the right is covered, but they didn't do it properly as cars, traffic lights, and road markings ahead make it difficult to see the direction.

The left hand side being an inch wider shrinks the right. While that doesn't bother me regarding the map, it does bother me that the camera is smaller.


----------



## M3OC Rules

DocScott said:


> No, I can't. It's possible that the vision algorithms can be improved enough to deal with the degree of obstruction regularly encountered from light snow or roadspray. But I don't think it will.
> 
> Does the fact that I think the hardware for my car can't support L5 autonomy mean that I should sell it? I would be very unhappy if that were the case.


Hehe. The only thing parting me from my Tesla is another Tesla.


----------



## iChris93

Let’s get this thread back on topic of this new build.


----------



## SP's Tesla

Overall, I’m disappointed in the holiday build...

The two good things (IMHO) are the new car visualization and the BoomBox customizable sounds. 

But the main display update - not so good. Seems like so much wasted space on the left side now. Yes, I understand that is likely making room for upcoming features, but now, it seems like a step backwards.

Guess they all can’t be winners, but for all the hype around this build, seems like a let-down...

Sean


----------



## garsh

iChris93 said:


> Let's get this thread back on topic of this new build.


I moved the Robotax sub-discussion to here:
When will we get Full Self Drive Beta and then RoboTaxis?


----------



## sduck

iChris93 said:


> Let's get this thread back on topic of this new build.


You've got two threads about this. Splintering conversations...


----------



## Garlan Garner

Hey....

I did some experimenting with the new UI.

I love how we can now clearly see both the front and rear lights ( when they are on ) in the new UI. It appears that they might have done that for a reason.

I've done extensive work involving both the front and rear lights of my P3D+ - so I have quite a few bad and good headlights and taillights from my experiments. Headlight ballast is defective, $1,375? - Tesla Owners Online

I inserted a bad tail light ( the one with the turn signal in it ) and sure enough - just that light didn't come on in the graphic of the UI.
I inserted a bad tail light ( the one on the trunk lid ) and sure enough - just that light didn't come on.
I inserted a bad tail light with a broken turn signal led and sure enough - that light didn't blink in the UI - AND I got an error on the screen.

I performed the same functions with the headlights and the UI followed along the same way the tail lights did.
No matter which turn signal goes out ( front or back ) you will get an error with a fast blinking indicator on the UI. - however you can now visually tell which turn signal is out from the UI.

The only thing that was different in the front as in the back is that no matter which fog light was bad....the both stopped coming on in the UI.

Conclusion - from inside your car - you can tell if any light is burned out ( including the window brake light ). You can actually see it.

I for sure hope they keep this function. ( it wasn't even listed anywhere ). <---- I believe this might be one of Elon's items where he says "There are some improvements you didn't even know you wanted".


----------



## Garlan Garner

So lets see.....

You can now pinpoint if a light is out - and which one from the UI.
You can clearly see if a door is open. ( I love the new animation )
You can clearly see if a window is down. ( I love the new animation )
You can clearly see if the Trunk or Frunk is open
You can clearly see if there is air in the tires.
You can clearly see if the wheels are turned and in what direction. ( I Love the new animation ).
You can clearly see if the wheels are rotating or not ( I Love the new animation )
You can clearly see if the charge port is open or not ( I love the new animated graphic)
You can clearly see if the repeater turn signal light is blown out or not. ( I love the new animation )

What other external indicators are missing?


----------



## Garlan Garner

Anyway.....

I'm still trying to find out if there is anything externally that this new update doesn't provide a view of.

anyone?


I'm thinking / dreaming that there will be a refresh of the app that shows the exact same thing as the new UI.


----------



## jmmdownhil

Updated to 48.30 from .26 last night. After a short drive I didn't notice any changes. (?)
Just back ground bug fixes?


----------



## jmmdownhil

garsh said:


> We're going to try to move the conversation about the software release to this new thread so that the generic 2020.48 thread can go back to being more about information and less about thoughts an opinions.


Don't quite get the difference between this thread and the "generic" thread.


----------



## GDN

Mike said:


> Off topic: I see in your photo that the LTE signal is not present.
> 
> Is that normal for your situation when leaving home base?
> 
> Is so, I had the same issue(s) with poor LTE reliability for the first two years of ownership until I made a case that some hardware must be at fault.
> 
> Since my LTE (a specific line replaceable unit) was replaced this spring, it has worked flawlessly.


Good catch, and yes it is fairly typical. I'm guessing it takes between 10 to 20, maybe 30 seconds to pick up that signal. I don't always watch, but I do know it doesn't connect immediately and I just went to look at several drives on Teslafi and the first drive of the day seems to pick up a couple of blocks away from the house.

I'll have to compare the other car and watch closer, but I also know that my streaming is always slow to start, again a block or two from the house before it will start. I've been playing music from the phone lately so haven't noticed as much, and to be honest haven't even been getting to drive but a couple of days a week.

I've also noted a few times I use PIN to drive and it always takes 5 to 10 seconds once I get in the car for it to accept input. The keypad pops up immediately, but it takes a few seconds before it will recognize a key press. If I unlock the car or wake it before going out to it, it is quicker to respond.


----------



## Garlan Garner

Hmmm.....I wonder.......

If you could buy a car for the fleet....and could remotely tell EVERYTHING that was going on with the car ( as this UI has completed )... and the APP showed you everything this UI now shows.....

Would you? 

Is this UI further towards supporting FSD than what Tesla is really indicating?


----------



## Mike

sterickson said:


> Except that, according to Elon, my car has everything it needs, now, to do FSD. I personally think he's full of crap, in this regard. In my opinion, it only has what it likely needs to eventually do FSD, in good weather only. For all other conditions, I believe I was sold a bill of goods. Others are, of course, free to disagree with my opinion in this matter.
> 
> Edit: I'd be quite happy to be proven wrong and forced to stuff both feet in my mouth. But I'm not holding my breath, waiting for it.


The software has to be able to see and interpret what is going to happen 10 seconds from "now", not like the current iteration where it "loses it" if more than (about) two seconds of data is lost.

One example of that is when an 18-wheeler truck drives over a puddle of water (in a freeway setting) and the windscreen gets totally covered in spray...and sure enough one gets the red steering wheel/warning chime that tells me "I have control" regardless of whether I am ready to assume control or not.

Another example: when I use NOA, I always assume full manual control just prior to exiting the freeway. The current software logic, which follows the right shoulder painted line when exiting (no matter what), induces far too mauch lateral g force for passenger comfort. The feeling one gets when exiting a freeway with NOA/autopilot is akin to being on an old carnival ride called "The Wild Mouse"...or like the car is like a slot racing car from a race car set for 50 years ago...

Prior to buying my TM3 in mid 2018, I had always (erroneously) assumed that the autopilot was somehow tied into the moving map display so that autopilot knew about upcoming road alignments/grades/intersections. To this day, I find the situational awareness of NOA/autopilot lacking what it could potentially be.


----------



## Mike

GDN said:


> Good catch, and yes it is fairly typical. I'm guessing it takes between 10 to 20, maybe 30 seconds to pick up that signal. I don't always watch, but I do know it doesn't connect immediately and I just went to look at several drives on Teslafi and the first drive of the day seems to pick up a couple of blocks away from the house.
> 
> I'll have to compare the other car and watch closer, but I also know that my streaming is always slow to start, again a block or two from the house before it will start. I've been playing music from the phone lately so haven't noticed as much, and to be honest haven't even been getting to drive but a couple of days a week.
> 
> I've also noted a few times I use PIN to drive and it always takes 5 to 10 seconds once I get in the car for it to accept input. The keypad pops up immediately, but it takes a few seconds before it will recognize a key press. If I unlock the car or wake it before going out to it, it is quicker to respond.


If your other car works better (i.e. the LTE is live ass oon as you put the car in gear), push to get your LTE module replaced.


----------



## Needsdecaf

Figured out another consequence of the smaller “right window”. The Tune-In media player controls are too far away. I’m 6’2” and generally have no problems reaching anything in a car interior. The “skip ahead 15 seconds” button is now 85% of the way to the right hand side of the screen. It’s a long reach. 

Discovered this today while driving and trying to re-start a podcast that I was previously listening to. I swiped over close to where I had previously been listening. I wanted to hit the “plus 15” button about half a dozen times. Well, after hitting the “next track” button THREE times, I finally got it to where I was....while stopped. 

To be fair, this is not a new thing. It it is WORSE by far.


----------



## Jason F

Garlan Garner said:


> Hey....
> 
> I did some experimenting with the new UI.
> 
> I love how we can now clearly see both the front and rear lights ( when they are on ) in the new UI. It appears that they might have done that for a reason.
> 
> I've done extensive work involving both the front and rear lights of my P3D+ - so I have quite a few bad and good headlights and taillights from my experiments. Headlight ballast is defective, $1,375? - Tesla Owners Online
> 
> I inserted a bad tail light ( the one with the turn signal in it ) and sure enough - just that light didn't come on in the graphic of the UI.
> I inserted a bad tail light ( the one on the trunk lid ) and sure enough - just that light didn't come on.
> I inserted a bad tail light with a broken turn signal led and sure enough - that light didn't blink in the UI - AND I got an error on the screen.
> 
> I performed the same functions with the headlights and the UI followed along the same way the tail lights did.
> No matter which turn signal goes out ( front or back ) you will get an error with a fast blinking indicator on the UI. - however you can now visually tell which turn signal is out from the UI.
> 
> The only thing that was different in the front as in the back is that no matter which fog light was bad....the both stopped coming on in the UI.
> 
> Conclusion - from inside your car - you can tell if any light is burned out ( including the window brake light ). You can actually see it.
> 
> I for sure hope they keep this function. ( it wasn't even listed anywhere ). <---- I believe this might be one of Elon's items where he says "There are some improvements you didn't even know you wanted".


I tried repainting my hood red and it still shows as blue in the UI. Fail. Sad.


----------



## sterickson

Mike said:


> Another example: when I use NOA, I always assume full manual control just prior to exiting the freeway. The current software logic, which follows the right shoulder painted line when exiting (no matter what), induces far too mauch lateral g force for passenger comfort.


As do I. Too many times, after forcefully dashing into the exit's deceleration lane, it does two things that scares the living crap out of me: 1) it suddenly sees no cars in front of it, so it *speeds up* to whatever I had it set to for the freeway, and 2) when the deceleration lane ends in a sharp turn, it only slows down just as it's nearly in the turn. In the Winter or the rain, when the road might be slick, I am quite confident that the car would just fail to make the turn, so I absolutely make sure I am in control now.


----------



## motocoder

Not sure if this is related to the update, but it's never happened to me before, so I thought I'd mention it. I parked my car and went inside a store. When I came back, the passenger side window was all the way down. It's cold here now, so there is zero chance I was driving around with it down. This is on 2020.48.26


----------



## GDN

motocoder said:


> Not sure if this is related to the update, but it's never happened to me before, so I thought I'd mention it. I parked my car and went inside a store. When I came back, the passenger side window was all the way down. It's cold here now, so there is zero chance I was driving around with it down. This is on 2020.48.26


This was a problem with some cars probably 2 years ago. it was a real thing and it happened a few times, a friend at work had it happen on a day it was raining. Might just double check and watch as you get out, was there a chance you had something extra in your hand and you hit the button on accident? Maybe you should also configure the option to close the windows on lock. That was a new feature a few releases back. I don't know if that would truly fix the problem, or if it is a bug and it went down after it locked.


----------



## GDN

You can also further set up the reminders to get a notification if a window has been left down. I'm not sure if this would save you or trigger an alert if the window is down by a problem from the software, but you might give it a shot. Do all you can to protect from something like this. Auto up on lock, and reminders if one is left down.


----------



## Klaus-rf

Mike said:


> One example of that is when an 18-wheeler truck drives over a puddle of water (in a freeway setting) and the windscreen gets totally covered in spray...and sure enough one gets the red steering wheel/warning chime that tells me "I have control" regardless of whether I am ready to assume control or not.


 I'm confused here.

Are you suggesting that you are NOT * ALWAYS * IMMEDIATELY ready to take control when AP errors / gives up / makes a mistake / does something dangerous (with no warning)??

Tell me it ain't so?


----------



## Long Ranger

motocoder said:


> Not sure if this is related to the update, but it's never happened to me before, so I thought I'd mention it. I parked my car and went inside a store. When I came back, the passenger side window was all the way down. It's cold here now, so there is zero chance I was driving around with it down. This is on 2020.48.26


Just curious, do you have the "car left open notification" enabled and were you in the store for more than 10 minutes? It's supposed to notify you after 10 minutes if it detects that a window is down and the car is locked.


----------



## motocoder

Long Ranger said:


> Just curious, do you have the "car left open notification" enabled and were you in the store for more than 10 minutes? It's supposed to notify you after 10 minutes if it detects that a window is down and the car is locked.


I wasn't in the store that long. Either I somehow hit the button on the way out of the car, someone got in the car before it self locked, or there was some software or hardware glitch that rolled it down.


----------



## Mike

Klaus-rf said:


> I'm confused here.
> 
> Are you suggesting that you are NOT * ALWAYS * IMMEDIATELY ready to take control when AP errors / gives up / makes a mistake / does something dangerous (with no warning)??
> 
> Tell me it ain't so?


Okay, I'll bite.

I was using that as an illustrative example (a.k.a. rhetoric) to support my opinion that the car needs to be more aware of its surroundings (a.k.a. "the big picture").

I guess an example I could have used was: anytime I'm in autopilot and someone is following me at a distance that amounts to less than one second (elapsed time after passing the same datum), my foot is on the accelerator because (a) phantom braking is still a thing and (b) the current software iteration does not factor the vehicle behind me in its decision making.


----------



## JaxY

iChris93 said:


> The horn sounds only work in park and only work on vehicles with the PWS.


Actually, the replacement horn plays while driving, but AFTER the normal horn. So... "HONK... La Cucaracha" It's very funny. I believe if you're in park, it won't precede the new horn with the honk.

While I'm at it, may I just say that driving down the street with ice-cream truck music blasting out of a beautiful Model Y is about as fun as it gets. 


iChris93 said:


> The horn sounds only work in park and only work on vehicles with the PWS.


----------



## Perscitus

GDN said:


> Very minor, but I believe the backup camera went all the way to the edge so they had to overlay the seat belt reminder. Now that the camera has a smaller view they've got it on the screen twice.


Couldn't replicate this under either 2020.48.26 or now .30 Anyone else seeing this behavior?


----------



## M3OC Rules

Mike said:


> The software has to be able to see and interpret what is going to happen 10 seconds from "now", not like the current iteration where it "loses it" if more than (about) two seconds of data is lost.
> 
> One example of that is when an 18-wheeler truck drives over a puddle of water (in a freeway setting) and the windscreen gets totally covered in spray...and sure enough one gets the red steering wheel/warning chime that tells me "I have control" regardless of whether I am ready to assume control or not.
> 
> Prior to buying my TM3 in mid 2018, I had always (erroneously) assumed that the autopilot was somehow tied into the moving map display so that autopilot knew about upcoming road alignments/grades/intersections. To this day, I find the situational awareness of NOA/autopilot lacking what it could potentially be.


I don't know if freeway driving on FSD Beta is different than AP at this point but I do get the impression that FSD Beta is much less conservative in terms of telling the driver to take over. Another example is when someone crosses in front of you quite a ways ahead. The car has this total delayed reaction and then brakes even though no person would. I don't think FSD Beta does this. I think the situational awareness will not come right away necessarily but I don't think AP is indicative of where they are at.


----------



## Peterm

Here’s a minor change for the worse. I have the grey M3 with the aero caps, so my wheels pretty much match the color of the car. Originally, the car graphics showed only the silver wheels or the aero covers, neither of which looked like my car. I loved it when the aero caps wheel display option became available.

But now the wheel graphics are back to almost silver, clearly not like the dark grey that used to be there. When you go to choose your wheel preference, the thumbnail graphic is as it should be - dark grey. But what is displayed on the car graphic is not the same color.

I don’t know why Tesla changed this, but it clearly isn’t what these wheels look like and is a step backwards for those like me with the aero cap configuration.


----------



## ateslik

Garlan Garner said:


> So lets see.....
> 
> You can now pinpoint if a light is out - and which one from the UI.
> You can clearly see if a door is open. ( I love the new animation )
> You can clearly see if a window is down. ( I love the new animation )
> You can clearly see if the Trunk or Frunk is open
> You can clearly see if there is air in the tires.
> You can clearly see if the wheels are turned and in what direction. ( I Love the new animation ).
> You can clearly see if the wheels are rotating or not ( I Love the new animation )
> You can clearly see if the charge port is open or not ( I love the new animated graphic)
> You can clearly see if the repeater turn signal light is blown out or not. ( I love the new animation )
> 
> What other external indicators are missing?


the curb and how close I am to it. Which Elon said was coming to vector space. If it rendered this nicely that would be SUPER dope!


----------



## SkipperOFMO

Dogwhistle said:


> Yes!! My work schedule is variable, so I'm constantly having to go out to the car to put in anew departure time. Just let me do it from the app please! You can take back all my cars farting abilities for this one feature!


Right. For me, I have a detached garage and during the winter who wants to walk out on a snowy 0 degree day to change the settings on a car.


----------



## bsunny

Perscitus said:


> Couldn't replicate this under either 2020.48.26 or now .30 Anyone else seeing this behavior?


Yes. (I see double passenger seatbelt reminders.)


----------



## garsh

GDN said:


> Very minor, but I believe the backup camera went all the way to the edge so they had to overlay the seat belt reminder. Now that the camera has a smaller view they've got it on the screen twice.





Perscitus said:


> Couldn't replicate this under either 2020.48.26 or now .30 Anyone else seeing this behavior?


You have to turn on the side-view cameras in order to see this behavior.
That feature was added in 2020.24:


garsh said:


> *Backup Camera Improvements*​You can now view video streams coming from your side repeater cameras for added visibility around the vehicle.​​When the backup camera is visible, simply swipe to display the repeater camera video feeds.​​


​


----------



## Mike

M3OC Rules said:


> Another example is when someone crosses in front of you quite a ways ahead. The car has this total delayed reaction and then brakes even though no person would.


That's another great example where I will assume manual control for the sake of passenger comfort.


----------



## Klaus-rf

Mike said:


> ... (b) the current software iteration does not factor the vehicle behind me in its decision making.


 Agreed - AFAICR AP has NEVER cared about traffic coming from behind.


----------



## Garlan Garner

sterickson said:


> As do I. Too many times, after forcefully dashing into the exit's deceleration lane, it does two things that scares the living crap out of me: 1) it suddenly sees no cars in front of it, so it *speeds up* to whatever I had it set to for the freeway, and 2) when the deceleration lane ends in a sharp turn, it only slows down just as it's nearly in the turn. In the Winter or the rain, when the road might be slick, I am quite confident that the car would just fail to make the turn, so I absolutely make sure I am in control now.


What level of autonomy do you think Tesla believes they are putting out?


----------



## TomT

They are often referred to as Foggles... I still have my set from when I was doing my IFR training and I use them for recurrent training.



Mr. Spacely said:


> Maybe blindfolded isn't the right term. When I learned to fly the instructor put a blind on me like a horse would wear so that I could only look down at the gauges and couldn't look up to see out the windshield.


----------



## M3OC Rules

Mike said:


> That's another great example where I will assume manual control for the sake of passenger comfort.


Not sure exactly what you want manual control of but my guess is a manual control only works with context which I'm guessing it doesn't have on AP. But FSD Beta does and has possibly solved this issue at least most of the time.


----------



## francoisp

M3OC Rules said:


> Not sure exactly what you want manual control of but my guess is a manual control only works with context which I'm guessing it doesn't have on AP. But FSD Beta does and has possibly solved this issue at least most of the time.


If it's anything like me, I gently push the accelerator to override a possibility of an unwanted (unneeded) deceleration.


----------



## sterickson

Garlan Garner said:


> What level of autonomy do you think Tesla believes they are putting out?


Level 5. Elon's never said, to my knowledge, that it was "Fair weather FSD" only. He has spoken of people having their steering wheels removed. He has spoken of our cars as robo-taxis. He has also said our cars have everything, now, that they need (less software), to allow both. You can't have a car with no steering wheel and or no people in it, short of level 5.


----------



## Garlan Garner

sterickson said:


> Level 5. Elon's never said, to my knowledge, that it was "Fair weather FSD" only. He has spoken of people having their steering wheels removed. He has spoken of our cars as robo-taxis. He has also said our cars have everything, now, that they need (less software), to allow both. You can't have a car with no steering wheel and or no people in it, short of level 5.


I don't agree that Tesla believes they have released level 5 ( no driver needed ) autonomy yet, but I can't elaborate.


----------



## Garlan Garner

Summoning my vehicle with this update seems to have changed the summon driving speed. 

When I summon now - my vehicle moves extremely slowly. Almost a crawl. 

Can anyone attest to that?


----------



## Mike

M3OC Rules said:


> Not sure exactly what you want manual control of but my guess is a manual control only works with context which I'm guessing it doesn't have on AP. But FSD Beta does and has possibly solved this issue at least most of the time.


When in autopilot and someone is pulling onto the road well ahead of me (or facing my direction and turning left in front of me) I tap up on the gear stalk to cancel autopilot while I assume full control of the speed and steering.


----------



## sterickson

Garlan Garner said:


> I don't agree that Tesla believes they have released level 5 ( no driver needed ) autonomy yet, but I can't elaborate.


No, clearly not there yet. But that is their stated goal. And they have claimed robo-taxis "very soon now".


----------



## GDN

Garlan Garner said:


> Summoning my vehicle with this update seems to have changed the summon driving speed.
> 
> When I summon now - my vehicle moves extremely slowly. Almost a crawl.
> 
> Can anyone attest to that?


It was raining here late night and I summoned in a "Live" parking lot with other cars in it for the first time. It's speed was fairly normal compared to past summons. It did well other than stopping about 20' from where we were. I was happy as it saved me about 50' in the rain.


----------



## Garlan Garner

sterickson said:


> No, clearly not there yet. But that is their stated goal. And they have claimed robo-taxis "very soon now".


I was asking. " What level of autonomy do you think Tesla believes they are putting out"? Putting out right now.

Not arguing. Just asking. Not going to elaborate. Just trying to be clear with the question.


----------



## Garlan Garner

GDN said:


> It was raining here late night and I summoned in a "Live" parking lot with other cars in it for the first time. It's speed was fairly normal compared to past summons. It did well other than stopping about 20' from where we were. I was happy as it saved me about 50' in the rain.


Great.

Mine is really slow for some reason.

No worries.


----------



## sterickson

Garlan Garner said:


> Putting out right now.


Obviously they are currently at a level below 5 and know it. But I believe they think it's only the software that needs evolving, as Elon has said that our cars supposedly already have the hardware for full self driving. It's the latter I don't currently believe, but we shall see. Given he knows a lot more about it than I do, I'm hoping to be proven wrong.


----------



## M3OC Rules

Mike said:


> When in autopilot and someone is pulling onto the road well ahead of me (or facing my direction and turning left in front of me) I tap up on the gear stalk to cancel autopilot while I assume full control of the speed and steering.


Sorry. I get it now. Ya. You can try to be ready on the throttle but it's amazing how your body can sense small acceleration even if the velocity only changes a small amount.


----------



## Needsdecaf

sterickson said:


> Level 5. Elon's never said, to my knowledge, that it was "Fair weather FSD" only. He has spoken of people having their steering wheels removed. He has spoken of our cars as robo-taxis. He has also said our cars have everything, now, that they need (less software), to allow both. You can't have a car with no steering wheel and or no people in it, short of level 5.


Tesla has not released Level 5 vehicles. Their current cars are Level 2.


----------



## sterickson

Needsdecaf said:


> Tesla has not released Level 5 vehicles. Their current cars are Level 2.


Right. But they claim the cars we have now will be able to do level 5 in the future, when the software's ready. I don't currently believe that, but am most willing to be proven wrong.


----------



## ahagge

Klaus-rf said:


> Agreed - AFAICR AP has NEVER cared about traffic coming from behind.


"...whatsa behind me is not important." - Franco (Raul Julia), _The Gumball Rally_


----------



## Garlan Garner

sterickson said:


> Right. But they claim the cars we have now will be able to do level 5 in the future, when the software's ready. I don't currently believe that, but am most willing to be proven wrong.


Staying ahead of the competition in FSD keeps TSLA moving up.

I just like to be part of the journey to L5. The journey is much more exciting than the goal in this case.


----------



## Needsdecaf

Took an extended drive after dark for the first time since the UI was released. It makes it VERY easy to see (pun intensed) how bad the UI is during the daytime. With the dark background, everything jumps out. The energy bar is much easier to read, the speedo is more easily discerned from the other info. And lo and behold, the D in PRND is BLUE when you’re in drive. So easy to see rather than light gray on white. 

and the icons on the bottom POP.

yes, this UI really needs work.


----------



## GDN

I noticed today that there could be a good reason the speedometer ended up on the far left, it is the least distance your eyes need to travel to see it. Truly you can drive and do most anything else and never look at the screen, but you need to see your speed. I'm thinking they were going for the far left, it is an easy quick glance. I just think it needs to be a little bigger and differentiated from the cruise speed and the speed limit sign. I know some want it back in the middle, but I'm ok where it is, just enlarge it some. Here is another tweak they can give it, but I want user settings for it. Make it change color based on your speed and speed limit. I want to set it for say 10 over, when I hit 10 over the speed limit it can turn red. 

The gear selector and battery icon don't bother me too much either, actually I'm OK with most of the rest of it. Just being shades of gray they blend in, they don't draw your eye from the speed limit. I truly love the camera icon being moved to the bottom bar. When I pull in to the garage I use it to check where the door closes behind me. If anyone in the car took their seat belt off the icon got covered with the card. 

I think just a couple of small tweaks and the ability for each user to be able to move the split of the screen to their liking and I'd be a very happy camper with this GUI update.


----------



## motocoder

GDN said:


> I think just a couple of small tweaks and the ability for each user to be able to move the split of the screen to their liking and I'd be a very happy camper with this GUI update.


Agree - also fix the daytime colors where they have gray text on gray background.


----------



## ateslik

Garlan Garner said:


> What level of autonomy do you think Tesla believes they are putting out?


Elon says level 5 in this interview from December 5th:

https://www.businessinsider.com/elo...tesla-accelerate-advent-of-sustainable-energy

Döpfner: And what is the time horizon - when will level-five autonomy happen? And do you believe that level four is ever going to be executed? Because then you have a combination of humans and machines, which can be more dangerous than machines only.

Musk: There is a dangerous transition point. Where self-driving is good, but it occasionally has issues, because people maybe get too comfortable, and then they stop paying attention like they should. And then 99.9% of the time, it's good, 1 in 1,000 times it's not. And you really need more like six nines, like a 99.9999 sort of reliability.

Döpfner: But any prediction about by when it will be the new normal?

Musk: I'm extremely confident that Tesla will have level five next year, extremely confident, 100%.

and he linked the interview from his own twitter page.


----------



## Kizzy

Needsdecaf said:


> Took an extended drive after dark for the first time since the UI was released. It makes it VERY easy to see (pun intensed) how bad the UI is during the daytime. With the dark background, everything jumps out. The energy bar is much easier to read, the speedo is more easily discerned from the other info. And lo and behold, the D in PRND is BLUE when you're in drive. So easy to see rather than light gray on white.
> 
> and the icons on the bottom POP.
> 
> yes, this UI really needs work.


So, they designed for Dark Mode all the time? I blame Apple once again. 😉


----------



## FRC

ateslik said:


> Elon says level 5 in this interview from December 5th:
> 
> https://www.businessinsider.com/elo...tesla-accelerate-advent-of-sustainable-energy
> 
> Döpfner: And what is the time horizon - when will level-five autonomy happen? And do you believe that level four is ever going to be executed? Because then you have a combination of humans and machines, which can be more dangerous than machines only.
> 
> Musk: There is a dangerous transition point. Where self-driving is good, but it occasionally has issues, because people maybe get too comfortable, and then they stop paying attention like they should. And then 99.9% of the time, it's good, 1 in 1,000 times it's not. And you really need more like six nines, like a 99.9999 sort of reliability.
> 
> Döpfner: But any prediction about by when it will be the new normal?
> 
> Musk: I'm extremely confident that Tesla will have level five next year, extremely confident, 100%.
> 
> and he linked the interview from his own twitter page.


So, he's saying 100% certainty of FSD being on the street, to the fleet, in 2021? I would lay HUGE odds that he is overpromising again.


----------



## francoisp

FRC said:


> So, he's saying 100% certainty of FSD being on the street, to the fleet, in 2021? I would lay HUGE odds that he is overpromising again.


It depends on how competent Tesla's AI is and we just don't know. Musk has the insight and he gets to drive the alpha version of FSD. He could be right this time.


----------



## Garlan Garner

ateslik said:


> Elon says level 5 in this interview from December 5th:
> 
> https://www.businessinsider.com/elo...tesla-accelerate-advent-of-sustainable-energy
> 
> Döpfner: And what is the time horizon - when will level-five autonomy happen? And do you believe that level four is ever going to be executed? Because then you have a combination of humans and machines, which can be more dangerous than machines only.
> 
> Musk: There is a dangerous transition point. Where self-driving is good, but it occasionally has issues, because people maybe get too comfortable, and then they stop paying attention like they should. And then 99.9% of the time, it's good, 1 in 1,000 times it's not. And you really need more like six nines, like a 99.9999 sort of reliability.
> 
> Döpfner: But any prediction about by when it will be the new normal?
> 
> Musk: I'm extremely confident that Tesla will have level five next year, extremely confident, 100%.
> 
> and he linked the interview from his own twitter page.


You aren't answering my question.....I can't go further in the discussion though.


----------



## bernie

sterickson said:


> Obviously they are currently at a level below 5 and know it. But I believe they think it's only the software that needs evolving, as Elon has said that our cars supposedly already have the hardware for full self driving. It's the latter I don't currently believe, but we shall see. Given he knows a lot more about it than I do, I'm hoping to be proven wrong.


It can't navigate California Highway 1 at any speed north of San Francisco clearly marked yellow center line and right white line, seemingly for no reason, broad daylight no shadows, no crazy dips. Maybe it will be be ready when it can handle these 20 mph turns.


----------



## bernie

motocoder said:


> Not sure if this is related to the update, but it's never happened to me before, so I thought I'd mention it. I parked my car and went inside a store. When I came back, the passenger side window was all the way down. It's cold here now, so there is zero chance I was driving around with it down. This is on 2020.48.26


This happened to me yesterday, tried to blame the spouse, that didn't go well.


----------



## Garlan Garner

FRC said:


> So, he's saying 100% certainty of FSD being on the street, to the fleet, in 2021? I would lay HUGE odds that he is overpromising again.


I don't know if Tesla will achieve Level 5 this year or not however I do believe that "local regulatory approval" is required and is LONG way away.

If Level 5 is indeed achieved.. and customers want it... then it might take more than Tesla to get that done. I could certainly be wrong about this...because Tesla has done some amazing things that I didn't think I would see in my lifetime. So has SpaceX.


----------



## Garlan Garner

bernie said:


> It can't navigate California Highway 1 at any speed north of San Francisco clearly marked yellow center line and right white line, seemingly for no reason, broad daylight no shadows, no crazy dips. Maybe it will be be ready when it can handle these 20 mph turns.


Did you send in a bug report?


----------



## francoisp

bernie said:


> It can't navigate California Highway 1 at any speed north of San Francisco clearly marked yellow center line and right white line, seemingly for no reason, broad daylight no shadows, no crazy dips. Maybe it will be be ready when it can handle these 20 mph turns.


Are you a FSD beta tester? If not, keep in mind that Autopilot is not meant to handle these roads. I suggest you watch FSD videos on YouTube and there are several of them showing FSD driving on very curvy roads.



>


----------



## Garlan Garner

FrancoisP said:


> Are you a FSD beta tester? If not, keep in mind that Autopilot is not meant to handle these roads. I suggest you watch FSD videos on YouTube and there are several of them showing FSD driving on very curvy roads.


Highway 1 is one of the main expressways in California. FSD was built for such a highway.

I'm quite certain that Autopilot has been navigating all of Highway 1 in California. Ryan M did it when he first got his Model 3.

The question is - What is happening north of SanFran? It looks the same to me.


----------



## francoisp

Garlan Garner said:


> I'm quite certain that Autopilot has been navigating all of Highway 1 in California. Ryan M did it when he first got his Model 3.


It is my personal experience that Autopilot (not FSD) has a hard time handling very tight curves. There are several such roads in my area that I test drive on with every new software release and so far no success.


----------



## francoisp

FrancoisP said:


> Are you a FSD beta tester? If not, keep in mind that Autopilot is not meant to handle these roads. I suggest you watch FSD videos on YouTube and there are several of them showing FSD driving on very curvy roads.


When I say "not meant" I don't mean that it can't. I mean that we shouldn't get our expectations too high.


----------



## francoisp

Garlan Garner said:


> Highway 1 is one of the main expressways in California. FSD was built for such a highway.
> 
> I'm quite certain that Autopilot has been navigating all of Highway 1 in California. Ryan M did it when he first got his Model 3.
> 
> The question is - What is happening north of SanFran? It looks the same to me.


Very nice drive.


----------



## SalisburySam

Garlan Garner said:


> Staying ahead of the competition in FSD keeps TSLA moving up.
> 
> I just like to be part of the journey to L5. The journey is much more exciting than the goal in this case.


...but I paid for the goal.


----------



## Needsdecaf

FrancoisP said:


> Are you a FSD beta tester? If not, keep in mind that Autopilot is not meant to handle these roads. I suggest you watch FSD videos on YouTube and there are several of them showing FSD driving on very curvy roads.


And not very well from what I have seen In some cases.


----------



## francoisp

Needsdecaf said:


> And not very well from what I have seen In some cases.


One must make sure to watch the recent videos and ignore the old ones because FSD has been improving quite a bit between releases.


----------



## Rick Steinwand

Needsdecaf said:


> Figured out another consequence of the smaller "right window". The Tune-In media player controls are too far away. I'm 6'2" and generally have no problems reaching anything in a car interior. The "skip ahead 15 seconds" button is now 85% of the way to the right hand side of the screen. It's a long reach.


I agree. I have to stretch much further when I check for updates at stop lights, in my garage, leaving work, etc and am concerned over time, I might develop a long-term disability.

I suspect many of you, think this is a stretch.


----------



## skygraff

Okay, finally got to test out the "holiday" update myself after being away for work.

-long post warning-

First thing, I didn't get 25 and held off on installing (since I needed to test the Jeda Hub in 12.1) until 30. Hub bug seemed squashed in 12.1 but, just after install of 30, the error was present until I pulled and reseated the Hub; will take longer drive on Tuesday to confirm but looks good. My personal white whale issue of the broken voice commands for audio channel/station tuning remains.

Nobody else chimed in about this but, looking at the map while displaying directions and the radio favorites, I wasn't as bothered by the small screen as I'd thought. That may be different if I was trying to read the street names but, in that case, I'd minimize the radio. As for the radio favorites, the smaller screen size doesn't really make swiping them any worse but I'd still like it better if the voice commands were fixed.










Regarding issues raised by others:

• 30 has fixed the gripe about cards covering the back of the car as they now pop the car up out of the card's way. Of course, it takes a little practice to swipe the cards into position rather than moving the whole display around (at least while stopped).

• While the speedo is still less prominent than before, I don't mind its new location and would have to contort myself to block it with 10/2 hands (I'm 6'3" and had to both raise my hand and lower my head to an impossible position). Unless your driving position is like Clara Peller's, I don't see it being a problem.

• The wrong wheels continue to be displayed and I noticed that options don't include the original aero covers. Switched to the new aero covers then back to the kit display but it stays with the silver spokes.

• Can't say I miss the sun spot but, while the car render is beautiful, its size is unnecessary. That said, I see the value of the larger display area with regard to seeing what is further from the vehicle and still a potential hazard but I don't know why I need to see that as long as the car does (doubly so at Level 5). One thing that seems more obvious (or new?) with the larger display is that the yellow semi-circles are easier to see and there's even a blend of yellow and red as proximities decrease. I was much more aware of the blind spot detection than I usually am and, for somebody whose mirrors are set correctly but can't achieve the Car Talk ideal due to Model 3 mirror limitations relative to my height, that may prove useful.

• As for the energy bar, it seems perfectly visible to me in both day and night conditions (didn't have direct sunlight). My only problem is that they didn't make a clear center point. That really doesn't matter while driving since the green and black define it but, when in gear but not yet moving, a center point helps clarify the extent of regen limitation. When the speedo was centered, it was more obvious but there's really no nearby central axis reference at the top of the screen. The grey battery doesn't bother me but there are other greens on the screen (headlights) so... More importantly, the battery still doesn't toggle between % and range but continues to provide a third (fourth?) way to open the charge screen; although it is the only single-touch method while in gear (not a good time to view that).

• No thoughts on the toy box, don't care and don't have the external speaker. Only thing I'd offer up is that we have seat sensors so no reason to pop up a passenger confirmation button when that can clearly be verified by the system just like the passenger airbag. Unless Tesla really wants us to ignore the road, they don't need to ask that question like they're programming for a phone app.

All in all, I don't really mind the changes but I still question the purpose. Until FSD is real, hands free and minimal distractions should be the focus of their UI. With FSD, entertainment and navigation (still hands free if you're riding in the back) will be more important than what the car visualizes outside the window. The only benefit I can imagine for such a detailed render would be if it was being recorded along with the cameras for investigation and/or NN training purposes; again, no need for the occupants to see it in real time.

Bring back the voice commands and make better use of icon buttons rather than triple redundancies like the charge screen launchers.


----------



## Garlan Garner

SalisburySam said:


> ...but I paid for the goal.


I knew how far L5 was away when I purchased my car in 2018.

I knew it was at least -"far away"-

I wanted to lock in the price @ $5k so I bought it.

The journey to FSD has been phenomenal - as I watch(ed) it mature over time.
Tesla FSD Beta takes driver from SF to LA with no human intervention (teslarati.com)

If the goal/journey is taking to long.....you could always downgrade ( trade-in ) ( get your money back ) to a model that doesn't have FSD.


----------



## sterickson

Garlan Garner said:


> I knew how far L5 was away when I purchased my car in 2018.


I didn't. I was buying a car. I wanted an electric car, and what I read said that Tesla made the best one. I did know that FSD wasn't ready, when I purchased it, but Elon promised it soon. I did not know, then, that Elon's promises are often wildly off-target.

I have no intention of trading in for a car that doesn't have it, because I still do want it, but that doesn't mean I can't say, in the meantime, "WTF, Elon?"

For you, it seems to be black and white. If someone's unhappy, they should get rid of what they have. Sometimes, that's what people should do, but not always.


----------



## Garlan Garner

sterickson said:


> I didn't. I was buying a car. I wanted an electric car, and what I read said that Tesla made the best one. I did know that FSD wasn't ready, when I purchased it, but Elon promised it soon. I did not know, then, that Elon's promises are often wildly off-target.
> 
> I have no intention of trading in for a car that doesn't have it, because I still do want it, but that doesn't mean I can't say, in the meantime, "WTF, Elon?"
> 
> For you, it seems to be black and white. If someone's unhappy, they should get rid of what they have. Sometimes, that's what people should do, but not always.


Yeah.....

I have to also say that when I purchased my car....FSD wasn't invented yet. It was AP and EAP. I researched the daylights out of this purchase because my P3D+ was extremely expensive IMHO. I purchased everything Tesla was selling for the goal of locking in the price of whatever they came up with in the future. That was a promise back then that has actually come true.

No sarcasm at all.....Thats how I've been raised. My mother always told me from birth.....If there is something broken "fix it". If there is something wrong "right it". Don't just sit back and let things in your life be wrong.....we have come too far.

My mom and dad would say don't EVER come to me with a problem without a suggestion to fix it".

They said many things like that.

Maybe that's why it looks black and white.


----------



## sterickson

Garlan Garner said:


> Maybe that's why it looks black and white.


Fair enough.


----------



## iChris93

Garlan Garner said:


> I have to also say that when I purchased my car....FSD wasn't invented yet. It was AP and EAP.


When was your car ordered and delivered?


----------



## FRC

Wasn't FSD offered on the Model3 from day one?


----------



## iChris93

FRC said:


> Wasn't FSD offered on the Model3 from day one?


Yes, but then it disappeared as an option for all cars. May have gone off menu.


----------



## Garlan Garner

iChris93 said:


> When was your car ordered and delivered?


Reserved March 15, 2016. I was 2nd in line in the Grand Ave Chicago store. Out in the rain for 6 hours.

Ordered 8/22/17










Delivered July 2018.


----------



## iChris93

Garlan Garner said:


> Delivered July 2018.


Mine was also delivered in July 2018 with EAP + FSD included in my order. EAP was $5k and FSD was another $3k. There was no just AP option.


----------



## Garlan Garner

iChris93 said:


> Mine was also delivered in July 2018 with EAP + FSD included in my order. EAP was $5k and FSD was another $3k. There was no just AP option.


I didn't have it on my initial order sheet in 2017. My order sheet showed Enhanced Auto Pilot plus. ( My order 8/2017 ).

About a month later Enhanced Auto Pilot plus turned into 2 things ( my buddy Walters order 9/2017 )

1. Autopilot
2. Enhanced Auto Pilot

Then about 2 weeks later it was changed to: ( My brother-in-law James order 10/2017).

1. Full Self Driving Capability
2. Enhanced Auto Pilot

Now by the time it was delivered - Full Self Driving Capability and Enhanced Auto Pilot was on the Marony Sticker.


----------



## tencate

iChris93 said:


> EAP was $5k and FSD was another $3k


Mine was delivered January 2018 and at the time we ordered we decided NOT to go with FSD. I had a wait and see attitude. And then sometime later I learned there was a deal and you could get full FSD for just $2k. I'd seen enough progress with EAP over the time I'd owned and driven the car that I jumped on the deal. No regrets. I'm a patient guy, I look forward to updates. I drive a lot of highway miles and it's well worth it to me now and I can't wait for the future as it gets better and better.


----------



## iChris93

tencate said:


> Mine was delivered January 2018 and at the time we ordered we decided NOT to go with FSD. I had a wait and see attitude. And then sometime later I learned there was a deal and you could get full FSD for just $2k. I'd seen enough progress with EAP over the time I'd owned and driven the car that I jumped on the deal. No regrets. I'm a patient guy, I look forward to updates. I drive a lot of highway miles and it's well worth it to me now and I can't wait for the future as it gets better and better.


Don't remind me! That's the most frustrating thing Tesla has done to me. They sold me for FSD at delivery for $3k telling me it would cost more later, then go and offer a sale for those who didn't buy it at delivery


----------



## Garlan Garner

iChris93 said:


> Don't remind me! That's the most frustrating thing Tesla has done to me. They sold me for FSD at delivery for $3k telling me it would cost more later, then go and offer a sale for those who didn't buy it at delivery


Indeed they did say that FSD would be more expensive after delivery - Get it Now!!

I forgot all about that.

I cant ever remember it being more expensive after delivery.


----------



## iChris93

Garlan Garner said:


> I cant ever remember it being more expensive after delivery.


It was $4k after delivery if you didn't get it during the sale.


----------



## Garlan Garner

Well...

FSD is knocking on the door.

Tesla FSD Beta takes driver from SF to LA with no human intervention (teslarati.com)


----------



## ateslik

Garlan Garner said:


> Well...
> 
> FSD is knocking on the door.
> 
> Tesla FSD Beta takes driver from SF to LA with no human intervention (teslarati.com)


 If that's FSD, don't answer it! lol


----------



## msjulie

This thread seems to now be about multiple things but I just need to vent some concerns 

The old regen-line was a good separator between UI elements, the speed limit was prominent and unambiguous as were cruise speed and even the speed limit signs. 

Sigh, so much wasted space with loss of the above just makes me frown. I get the whole game aspect of what the car sees but if a person is driving, please don't make that experience worse/less safe

Happy new year and all that..


----------



## MickeyRedEyes

Why cant the display show full radio text? Over half the width of the display is given to a star and two arrows.


----------



## JasonF

msjulie said:


> Sigh, so much wasted space with loss of the above just makes me frown. I get the whole game aspect of what the car sees but if a person is driving, please don't make that experience worse/less safe.


Staring directly at the new left-side UI while the car is parked also made me a little wary of getting less information for the sake of more decoration as well. But then I paid attention to how it behaves while driving. Turns out that it was designed pretty well to improve how your peripheral vision sees the visualization, so now you can actually kind of use it as a blind spot warning.


----------



## EchoCharlie3189

ryantollefson said:


> Starting to see some little bugs
> 
> Had to reformat my flash drive for it to show up for TeslaCam (right after update finished)
> USB Device malfunction - this was 2 days later (I have Jeda hub + USB flash drive + Tesla wireless charger):
> 
> View attachment 36545
> 
> 
> Unplug hub fixed it, but kinda annoying to do that.


Has anyone had USB device malfunction errors pop up with this update too? This happened to me yesterday and unplugging the USB or wireless charge pad made the error go away but then came back when plugged in. Seems to be an update problem since nothing about this setup has changed for months...


----------



## msjulie

JasonF said:


> But then I paid attention to how it behaves while driving. Turns out that it was designed pretty well to improve how your peripheral vision sees the visualization, so now you can actually kind of use it as a blind spot warning.


That part is fine; what I find most disappointing is the lack of clarity (and imagination?) for current speed, cruise speed, etc display area. They could have left the 'upper' part substantially as is (turn signals, speed and cruise, P R N D) and still improved the lower section

The one thing I like, but only partly, is the nav instruction when the map is covered; it's a weak UX premise to bounce data around like that though; that little bit of clarity could have been added to the left panel, map visible or not with a better result IMHO


----------



## JasonF

msjulie said:


> That part is fine; what I find most disappointing is the lack of clarity (and imagination?) for current speed, cruise speed, etc display area. They could have left the 'upper' part substantially as is (turn signals, speed and cruise, P R N D) and still improved the lower section


One of the things I'm most annoyed about with the Model 3 UI is it looks a lot like they don't understand how limited the area they're working with is. They keep making things larger so they're easier to read and touch, and the result is they end up overlapping in obnoxious ways.

If it was up to me, I would probably do something like this:

- Put a thin grey circle around the speed indication, and have an outline that goes from the bottom counter-clockwise, green for regen, black for acceleration. The circle draws attention to it, and the green/black going around it is familiar to drivers coming from other cars, including EV's. Also, make the speed indication very thin white letters with a thick black outline (reversed for Night Mode) - it's subtle, but makes a lot of difference in readability on the periphery.

- Have the thin grey circle add a double outline if AP is available, a thin blue outline for cruise control or TACC, or a slowly pulsing thicker blue gradient when AP is active. Again, subtle, but easy to understand. And the pulsing reminds you constantly that AP is still active, and you're not on TACC.

- Reorient volume control in the corner of the display so it's always on top when activated, and vertical. Get rid of the < > arrows, and make it so you can tap and move the volume up or down, and you can drag continuously starting with the icon, without moving your finger off the display, in order to change volume.

- Same with temperature control, you can tap it and drag continously without taking your finger off to change the temperature. Additionally I would make it so if you have the temperature drag control open, you can use the volume scroll wheel to adjust it.

- Double tap on the wiper stalk cyles through Auto, manual low, manual medium, manual high, off. Yes, I'm still pushing for that!

- Make it so any window that covers the screen will become half height and scrollable if Nav is active, and Nav will shrink to fit above it, so both can coexist.

- Same with music, when it's minimized, it could nudge the Nav up a bit, and maximized, force the Nav into half the window.

I had a lot more ideas over time, but that's a start...


----------



## Needsdecaf

I'm REALLY getting tired of the messy disaster that the top half of the display screen has become. It has NOT gotten better with time. 

Keep the warnings on the left. I like that. 

PRND stays where it is, gets bigger

Make speedo larger, stand out, more distinct from the set speed and speed limit, plus autopilot notification. 

Make energy display bigger. 

Make battery larger and bring back the green 

Make the external temp and clock larger. 

Make the map larger. 

Make the visualization smaller unless you're running FSD.


----------



## Garlan Garner

Needsdecaf said:


> I'm REALLY getting tired of the messy disaster that the top half of the display screen has become. It has NOT gotten better with time.
> 
> Keep the warnings on the left. I like that.
> 
> PRND stays where it is, gets bigger
> 
> Make speedo larger, stand out, more distinct from the set speed and speed limit, plus autopilot notification.
> 
> Make energy display bigger.
> 
> Make battery larger and bring back the green
> 
> Make the external temp and clock larger.
> 
> Make the map larger.
> 
> Make the visualization smaller unless you're running FSD.


Elon listens on twitter.

Let him know.


----------



## Needsdecaf

Garlan Garner said:


> Elon listens on twitter.
> 
> Let him know.


I have been .

Ineffective feedback loop.


----------



## sduck

Garlan Garner said:


> Elon listens on twitter.
> 
> Let him know.


I don't think so - he (and his staff) gets thousands of tweets per hour, there's no way he's looking at all (or possibly any) of them. There REALLY needs to be a more effective way of providing customer feedback.


----------



## PalmtreesCalling

FrancoisP said:


> Very nice drive.
> 
> View attachment 36595


that looks like such a fun drive. George Washington Parkway near DC along the Potomic is really nice, but your view here is way nicer


----------



## Chris350

Here's hoping to see a new version release as the current version is based off the last week of November...

That's over 6 weeks ago....

Hoping to see a 2021.02 or .3 release soon...


----------



## Garlan Garner

Needsdecaf said:


> I have been .
> 
> Ineffective feedback loop.


Question: Do you think Elon is constantly hearing the same thing about this update?

Has he heard your feedback from tons of other people?

I know he has as there is no shortage of complaints on twitter.

I really wonder what the full update will look like.


----------



## Garlan Garner

sduck said:


> I don't think so - he (and his staff) gets thousands of tweets per hour, there's no way he's looking at all (or possibly any) of them. There REALLY needs to be a more effective way of providing customer feedback.


Looking at thousands of tweets per hour with the same complaints over and over?

Of course he doesn't sit there reading all of those. How can you read thousands upon thousands of complaints and stay upbeat?

Do you believe that there is a complaint in this forum that he hasn't heard? I believe the feedback loop is working if you think its all been heard.

What would be your suggestion on talking to any CEO? Email? Phone? Survey? What have you found that works with other companies like GM / Toyota / Ford / etc.?


----------



## Bigriver

Garlan Garner said:


> What would be your suggestion on talking to any CEO?


I don't know that any of us actually want to be communicating with Elon about this or other issues. What would be nice, though, is to have an official communication channel with Tesla by which we could submit concerns, problems and ideas.


----------



## Garlan Garner

Bigriver said:


> I don't know that any of us actually want to be communicating with Elon about this or other issues. What would be nice, though, is to have an official communication channel with Tesla by which we could submit concerns, problems and ideas.


I suppose my question was to specific. Allow me to re-phrase.

What would be your suggestion as how to communicate with Tesla?

Which line of communication have you found that works with other companies similar to Tesla?

I only ask because repeated comments in a forum doesn't get anything done / changed. Sure its a way to get folks to agree with you and possibly make you feel better, but it doesn't change anything.
I know my ideas come from my upbringing where I was constantly pounded with the edict to NOT complain to anyone about anything that can't help you get it changed / fixed. My mother would say....save that breath for cooling soup. That was her favorite phrase.


----------



## Garlan Garner

Well...I'm out. 

I can't discuss this any further. 

I hope everyone eventually gets everything they want.


----------



## skygraff

I’ll bite.

How about an online customer service/feedback form with common topics as well as the ability to fill in the blank and have the system do a search for similarly phrased concerns so we can see whether the issue has been previously reported and simply add a plus one or, as appropriate, submit a unique concern? Build that system with subscription options so we can be updated when that (or other interesting) issue(s) is(are) addressed.

That could be done through the app (as well) without always having to start a service appointment.

Oh, how about having in-car bug reports also be converted to items in that system (voice to text with matching) with a follow-up e-mail or text to have users confirm intent of the report and check the suggested matches?

The appropriate departments could address and respond, in general terms, to issues. Even if limited to a small percentage of VINs, patterns could be noted and, if possible, resolved in software updates.

As for service appointments, we should have ability to get follow up information on scheduled, completed, or canceled appointments through the app or text (rather than have the text number used by Tesla shut down at their discretion). We should also be able to ask questions of the service department in our local or regional area without having to make an appointment and actually go in (especially during the pandemic).

Tesla is a fast moving tech company so, rather than kill the old-school dealership service department model all-together, they should improve upon it by implementing website and tech company communication tools in order to make contact methods efficient rather than impossible.


----------



## skygraff

Wrote that before the “I’m out” comment but, as a top contributor, you have to understand most of us post here because there are “influencers” on this board who actually can pass things on to Elon. It’s unfortunate that any of this has to go through the CEO but even more unfortunate that it has to be done through back channels rather than a user feedback system for all end users.


----------



## Gordon87

Gordon87 said:


> I just received my update notification. I have a 12/2018-build AWD.
> 
> I really use the map. I thought this update improved notification of turns and exits off highways with complex lane configurations, which I would appreciate. However, since the reviews of this update have been generally negative - smaller font, smaller speedometer, much smaller space for map & back-up camera, greyed battery - I'm inclined to stick with 2020.48.12.1 for the time being.


Well, I installed the update a few days ago and drove with it for the first time this morning. My initial thoughts:

While the map size is reduced, it seems large enough.
The speedo seems larger and all the way to the left. Seems better.
As to the other speed indications just to the right of the speedo, they didn't seem to conflict with reading your current speed.
I'd rather the charge level battery icon were green, but I assume they made it grey so as not to stand out and thus, avoiding it catching your eye while driving. I can live with that, since others have said it converts to color when the battery level drops way low.
The most amazing thing: When driving in the city, I found that it shows my lane and the two lanes to my left (including the dedicated parking or turn lane) and the same on the right. Much better to show more lanes around you. Well done.
A few days after installing this upgrade, I received a notice of another upgrade. When I went to the car, it indicated a games upgrade was available for download.


----------



## Mike

While in COVID lock-down, I'm doing a formal "rate of vampire drain" test with version 48.30.

The car was parked with 80% SOC indicated at 1930 GMT on 06 Jan 2021.

I'll check the car at (or around) 1930 GMT on 16 Jan 2021, which will give me an even 10 days.

The car, as usual, sits in my garage unlocked and asleep in an 8C temperature environment.

I have not disturbed the car (via the app, etc) since 06 Jan 2021.

Sidebar question: is one able to choose "British English" (for the accent) when selecting the language that the UI will speak to me with (reading back text messages, navigation instructions, etc) or is there only "English" and the car will default to an English accent based on the region of the world it operates in? Thanks


----------



## Bigriver

Mike said:


> Sidebar question: is one able to choose "British English" (for the accent) when selecting the language that the UI will speak to me with (reading back text messages, navigation instructions, etc) or is there only "English" and the car will default to an English accent based on the region of the world it operates in?


In North America, it appears there are only 3 options for how it speaks to you:








Interestingly there are separate controls with many more options for voice recognition, screen display, and owner's manual.

Looking forward to more improvements here. Many of my family have non Anglo-Saxon names which the car simply cannot understand no matter how many different ways I have tried to enunciate. I have resorted to renaming them. 🤨


----------



## Needsdecaf

Gordon87 said:


> Well, I installed the update a few days ago and drove with it for the first time this morning. My initial thoughts:
> 
> While the map size is reduced, it seems large enough.
> The speedo seems larger and all the way to the left. Seems better.
> As to the other speed indications just to the right of the speedo, they didn't seem to conflict with reading your current speed.
> I'd rather the charge level battery icon were green, but I assume they made it grey so as not to stand out and thus, avoiding it catching your eye while driving. I can live with that, since others have said it converts to color when the battery level drops way low.
> The most amazing thing: When driving in the city, I found that it shows my lane and the two lanes to my left (including the dedicated parking or turn lane) and the same on the right. Much better to show more lanes around you. Well done.
> A few days after installing this upgrade, I received a notice of another upgrade. When I went to the car, it indicated a games upgrade was available for download.


The speedo is all the way to the left, but it is smaller, by about 25% IIRC. Someone measured it.


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## francoisp

With version ".30" (EAP) I've got a lot less phantom brakings. In fact I cannot remember having one in the last couple of months.


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## Needsdecaf

Funny, I have had more phantom brakings on .30 than I have in a LONG time.


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## Gordon87

Needsdecaf said:


> The speedo is all the way to the left, but it is smaller, by about 25% IIRC. Someone measured it.


Sorry for the confusion. I meant that it seemed larger to me than the speed items to its right, so that it still stands out.


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## TrevP

Peterm said:


> Here's a minor change for the worse. I have the grey M3 with the aero caps, so my wheels pretty much match the color of the car. Originally, the car graphics showed only the silver wheels or the aero covers, neither of which looked like my car. I loved it when the aero caps wheel display option became available.
> 
> But now the wheel graphics are back to almost silver, clearly not like the dark grey that used to be there. When you go to choose your wheel preference, the thumbnail graphic is as it should be - dark grey. But what is displayed on the car graphic is not the same color.
> 
> I don't know why Tesla changed this, but it clearly isn't what these wheels look like and is a step backwards for those like me with the aero cap configuration.


With this same update, my black Aero wheels with no caps changed to silver (or maybe white). I though Elon had inserted a chip in my head, bcause i've been searching for a place to paint my wheels the same silver as the Sport wheels.


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## TrevP

Klaus-rf said:


> Agreed - AFAICR AP has NEVER cared about traffic coming from behind.


And EAP was very happy to automatically change lanes in front of a vehicle blasting by in excess of the speed limit. I nearly had a jacked-up pick up my bum-hole when this first occurred.


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## GDN

Skagit Doug said:


> And EAP was very happy to automatically change lanes in front of a vehicle blasting by in excess of the speed limit. I nearly had a jacked-up pick up my bum-hole when this first occurred.


One thing about EAP and FSD that no one wants to talk about is the fact that you have to assume (and it just truly isn't like this) that most others are driving by rules and laws., because EAP and FSD are. I as well have had the car change lanes to pull out in front of a much faster moving car. However there is nothing to detect vehicles over a certain distance back. If they are traveling 30 MPH faster than you, even though you need to move to the other lane, the car is going to do it every time. Maybe someday in the next iterations we'll have longer range cameras or cameras mounted higher up that can see those vehicles, but it is not there today. This is where the driver still has to be paying attention and either cancel the lane change or be prepared to accelerate to get on around.


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## francoisp

Skagit Doug said:


> And EAP was very happy to automatically change lanes in front of a vehicle blasting by in excess of the speed limit. I nearly had a jacked-up pick up my bum-hole when this first occurred.


I won't allow the automatic lane change. It makes too many strange decisions like that.


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## sterickson

GDN said:


> This is where the driver still has to be paying attention and either cancel the lane change or be prepared to accelerate to get on around.


<rollsEyes>But Elon says our cars have, right now, all the hardware necessary for FSD!</rollsEyes> We'll see what he says when the car is in FSD, pulls one of these maneuvers, gets rear-ended, and *Tesla* has to foot the bill for the insurance claims.


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## GDN

sterickson said:


> <roolsEyes>But Elon says our cars have, right now, all the hardware necessary for FSD!</rollsEyes> We'll see what he says when the car is in FSD, pulls one of these maneuvers, gets rear-ended, and *Tesla* has to foot the bill for the insurance claims.


Well this could be one of the biggest things about computer driving. It will follow rules, it will adapt some over time, but if I'm driving and don't see a vehicle coming like that, even after I look in the mirror and they rear end me, it will most likely be the other guys fault for speeding/wreckless driving. Likely determined by a cop or someone that would write up a report.

The key here is we are so many years from Level 5, the "beta" tags they put on this technology and lower autonomous levels will keep the blame on the person sitting in the drivers seat. If the car makes a bad move and you don't correct it, they have someone to blame.


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## francoisp

GDN said:


> Well this could be one of the biggest things about computer driving. It will follow rules, it will adapt some over time, but if I'm driving and don't see a vehicle coming like that, even after I look in the mirror and they rear end me, it will most likely be the other guys fault for speeding/wreckless driving. Always like determined by a cop or someone that would write up a report.
> 
> The key here is we are so many years from Level 5, the "beta" tags they put on this technology and lower autonomous levels will keep the blame on the person sitting in the drivers seat. If the car makes a bad move and you don't correct it, they have someone to blame.


Several years ago I was driving on the autobahn in Germany doing 90 mph and cars were passing me at 120 mph (my guess). At that speed you look left, you don't see anything, then you start changing lane, you look again and suddenly a car is almost in your blind spot. Nerve wracking. That's going to be an interesting test bed for Tesla because at those speeds there isn't much room for error. On the other hand, Germans are very well behaved on the road unlike Americans and they only pass on the left.


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## tivoboy

FrancoisP said:


> Several years ago I was driving on the autobahn in Germany doing 90 mph and cars were passing me at 120 mph (my guess). At that speed you look left, you don't see anything, then you start changing lane, you look again and suddenly a car is almost in your blind spot. Nerve wracking. That's going to be an interesting test bed for Tesla because at those speeds there isn't much room for error. On the other hand, Germans are very well behaved on the road unlike Americans and they only pass on the left.


Yes, there is no far left lane casual passing on the Autobahn. Even IN the left lane at 150mph I have people on my tail where I can't even read their front license plate at all...less than or equal to 1 car length at best. I'm not sure how FSD is going to handle that situation. We know there is a top Limit to current AP/EAP, I'm sure it will stay that way.


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## Garlan Garner

Needsdecaf said:


> I have been .
> 
> Ineffective feedback loop.


Well.

Tesla is hiring people to address complaints to Elon Musk on Twitter - Electrek

Let Elon know.

He is much more effective towards a resolution than anyone here can be.


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## Needsdecaf

Garlan Garner said:


> Well.
> 
> Tesla is hiring people to address complaints to Elon Musk on Twitter - Electrek
> 
> Let Elon know.
> 
> He is much more effective towards a resolution than anyone here can be.


LOL, ridiculous.


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## Garlan Garner

Needsdecaf said:


> LOL, ridiculous.


What is ridiculous?


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## iChris93

Garlan Garner said:


> What is ridiculous?


They could actually have a real customer support division instead of having the only avenue be tweeting Musk.


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## Garlan Garner

iChris93 said:


> They could actually have a real customer support division instead of having the only avenue be tweeting Musk.


I'm just going to have to chalk it up to me not understanding what you all mean.

There have been TONS of changes and updates to Tesla software to be established outside of Musk. Do we really believe that everything in the current software is Musk...created by Musk.....only based on what he heard in twitter?

Anyway...I have to stop discussing this. I'm out.


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## iChris93

Garlan Garner said:


> I'm out.


✌


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## skygraff

Garlan Garner said:


> I'm out.












In modern language, "they" is not just singular, it's first person singular.

Anyway, in case you pull yourself back in again, not everybody feels comfortable tweeting. It's a public forum for what could be a private (perhaps even open to ridicule) concern and, more than that, opens the door for all social media pitfalls up to and including greater chance of identity theft.

Customer service and user feedback don't need to be done in public. Even here, where the community is mostly sympathetic and helpful, we still have moments of unnecessary depredation (heck, even an RTM comment can cross the line).

Hopefully, the tweet team will come to the conclusion that unfiltered traffic directed to Elon could be significantly diminished by developing better avenues of communication. If I were on that team, I'd be lobbying for my termination and replacement by a low level NN from day one; with the caveat that a clear way to speak with a live person (chat/e-mail/phone) should always be available.


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## Needsdecaf

Garlan Garner said:


> What is ridiculous?


If you can't see the topic of the article you posted is ridiculous then I am the one who is out.

Let's see, how best to set up customer feedback. Should they maybe establish a system in which people are available for customers to reach out to, to engage in a two way dialog of some sort (be it verbal or written) with actual acknowledgement that your concern / complaint / feedback / praise was not only received but that actual action was taken on it? And by action, one of the actions could consist of closing the case because of no way to resolve short of "noted, thanks"; I'm not at all advocating that Tesla needs to act upon every question / comment / concern. Far from it.

Or should maybe we just monitor the boss's tweets and maybe do something about it?

As I said before, one of these is an ineffective feedback loop. And it's not the former.


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## garsh

Let's get this thread back on topic please.


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## francoisp

iChris93 said:


> They could actually have a real customer support division instead of having the only avenue be tweeting Musk.


I found a bug on the Tesla app and I cannot find a way to report it. I cannot find a "contact", "support" or "feedback" link on the app.


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