# How much electricity does it take to produce a gallon/liter of gas/diesel?



## Electrocat

To get oil out of the ground, produce the gas/diesel and pump it into you car how much electricity does it take?

Electricity usage
- Drilling takes huge amounts mostly produced by diesel generators
- Pumping 
- Refining
- Pumping into transport trucks
- Running a gas station.
- I'am sure there are other electrify users in the process

Just wondering if the electric used to produce the gas/diesel would drive a electric vehicle further than the gas/diesel does?
If this is so then there is all the electrify that is needed to power electric transport available right know if it was not used to produce gas/diesel.


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## garsh

It's certainly a valid way of comparing. I don't know the answer though.

Another way to compare (and a much easier way) is to just consider cost. Currently, EVs are more expensive to produce and purchase than equivalent combustion vehicles, but they're much less expensive to operate. Prices are coming down, so that comparison will start to slant heavily towards EVs in a few years.


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## jmaddr

There have been a few studies on this, and it includes the mining and transportation of the heavy metals EV batteries need as well as the coal power plant and electrical infrastructure (power company) needed to get those electrons into our cars. 

Stats can go interpreted both ways, and can be bent towards the side of the political spectrum you want it to end up on.


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## Electrocat

jmaddr said:


> There have been a few studies on this, and it includes the mining and transportation of the heavy metals EV batteries need as well as the coal power plant and electrical infrastructure (power company) needed to get those electrons into our cars.
> 
> Stats can go interpreted both ways, and can be bent towards the side of the political spectrum you want it to end up on.


But say 95% of battery materials can be recycled, but fossil fuels are only one time use.


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## Dick Blonov

Here's one estimate, 6 kWh to refine a gallon of gas. This is probably debatable, but I would think more conversion steps=more losses, regardless of the type of energy used in the end.

Phil


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## Electrocat

Dick Blonov said:


> Here's one estimate, 6 kWh to refine a gallon of gas. This is probably debatable, but I would think more conversion steps=more losses, regardless of the type of energy used in the end.
> 
> Phil


Wow, for my Model 3 summer Wh/km is 130
Therefore the 6kWh would take me 6000/130 = 46km 
Therefore every gallon of gas that is not burned frees up massive amounts of electricity to power EV's


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## JasonF

jmaddr said:


> There have been a few studies on this, and it includes the mining and transportation of the heavy metals EV batteries need as well as the coal power plant and electrical infrastructure (power company) needed to get those electrons into our cars.


Those studies are all a basic straw man argument. They assert that because carbon emissions are produced while manufacturing both EV's and the electricity for EV's, therefore they are not "zero emissions" vehicles, and therefore all of the other arguments in favor of EV's are also invalid. Then they assert in return that EV's are actually worse for the environment, and people buying them are simply trying to justify paying more for them - and since all pro-EV arguments are invalid, we can't prove that isn't true.

Isn't circular logic fun?


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## jsmay311

Dick Blonov said:


> Here's one estimate, 6 kWh to refine a gallon of gas. This is probably debatable, but I would think more conversion steps=more losses, regardless of the type of energy used in the end.


I'd substitute "bs" for "debatable".

Those kWh-per-gallon "estimates" almost always conflate energy or heat with electricity or kWh to arrive at those large numbers.



Electrocat said:


> But say 95% of battery materials can be recycled, but fossil fuels are only one time use.


Asking if something *can* be recycled is the wrong question.

Asking if something *will* be recycled because there is a viable economic incentive to do so is the right question.

Almost everything I've read about recycling li-ion batteries is that the vast majority of the raw materials won't be recycled because it's more expensive to do so than producing the materials from scratch.


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## JasonF

jsmay311 said:


> lmost everything I've read about recycling li-ion batteries is that the vast majority of the raw materials won't be recycled because it's more expensive to do so than producing the materials from scratch.


The bonus to the cells being individual is it doesn't have to be recycled into another car battery. Lots of other battery powered items can use recycled rechargeable cells.


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## Randyman

One should also remember no tailpipes’ product. No engine oil to leak or replace, plugs, coolant in radiator system, injection systems, blah blah. 
Please pardon my expression. The camera caught me by surprise.


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## Feathermerchant

I read in a DOE study that 35% of the Electricity in Texas is used for Refining and oil production. That is a lot of electricity.


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