# delay acceleration from a stop



## Rhaekar (Mar 27, 2018)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I would say the Model 3 is really fun to drive and that's the power struggle. To autopilot or not


Handling wise it's really fun to drive but the initial delay when you hit the accelerator from a stop is kind of weird. Feels like the car is holding back unlike the P90/100D which immediately goes (non-launch mode). The top end of the Model 3 is really lacking too. Can't wait for a PD version of the Model 3.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

Rhaekar said:


> Handling wise it's really fun to drive but the initial delay when you hit the accelerator from a stop is kind of weird. Feels like the car is holding back unlike the P90/100D which immediately goes (non-launch mode). The top end of the Model 3 is really lacking too. Can't wait for a PD version of the Model 3.


I guess so ... maybe ... I don't even have roads here where I could use more


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Rhaekar said:


> Handling wise it's really fun to drive but the initial delay when you hit the accelerator from a stop is kind of weird.


This is the first I've heard of any kind of accelerator delay. Is anybody else noticing this?


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## AMPM (May 1, 2018)

garsh said:


> This is the first I've heard of any kind of accelerator delay. Is anybody else noticing this?


Perhaps you should start a new thread? Or poll?


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## Kizzy (Jul 25, 2016)

garsh said:


> This is the first I've heard of any kind of accelerator delay. Is anybody else noticing this?


I've seen it mentioned before.


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

How bad are we talking here? This is the first I've heard of it too; everyone I've seen has said it's very responsive. I find nothing more annoying than delayed acceleration. I sometimes have to drive a turbodiesel at work, and it can at times be more than a second before when you put your foot down and when the power kicks in. Despite the power not being bad when it comes, that initial delay is almost comically frustrating. At least with my Insight, while it's completely powerless, you don't have to wait a second for its powerless engine to kick in


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

garsh said:


> This is the first I've heard of any kind of accelerator delay. Is anybody else noticing this?


Mine personally feels very instantaneous.


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## telero (Aug 3, 2017)

Rhaekar said:


> Handling wise it's really fun to drive but the initial delay when you hit the accelerator from a stop is kind of weird.


Local styling and performance shop was talking about this. Apparently most fly-by-wire accelerators still induce some kind of delay. They sell a product called PedalBox that is wired in between the accelerator harness (plug and play) and remaps the accelerator response and delay. Haven't had a chance to try it out, but was considering doing it as a trial. The local shop has a satisfaction money back guarantee including install and uninstall if you don't like it.

Link to the actual product: https://www.pedalbox.com/us/
They show Tesla models being available, but not specifically Model 3. The local guys said it will work on the Model 3 though.


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## Maevra (Oct 24, 2017)

I don’t feel any delay. It’s just not as jolting as a Performance Model S with Ludicrous, which is expected.

Also, are we talking acceleration from a dead stop with Vehicle Hold on or off? Because that may explain the delay if any.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

telero said:


> Local styling and performance shop was talking about this. Apparently most fly-by-wire accelerators still induce some kind of delay.


Not applicable to EVs. They're talking about converting the movement of the accelerator pedal into an electrical signal, then back into a physical motion to move the throttle of the engine. Those extra conversions introduce delay.

Everything stays electrical in an EV. An EV - and I mean *any* and *every* EV - should feel more responsive to the accelerator than any combustion vehicle.


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## Rhaekar (Mar 27, 2018)

KarenRei said:


> How bad are we talking here? This is the first I've heard of it too; everyone I've seen has said it's very responsive. I find nothing more annoying than delayed acceleration. I sometimes have to drive a turbodiesel at work, and it can at times be more than a second before when you put your foot down and when the power kicks in. Despite the power not being bad when it comes, that initial delay is almost comically frustrating. At least with my Insight, while it's completely powerless, you don't have to wait a second for its powerless engine to kick in


It's very minor but it's not instantaneous like when you floor it when you're moving a little already. People are probably talking about it being very responsive when you're already in motion, which it definitely is.


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## Maevra (Oct 24, 2017)

Rhaekar said:


> It's very minor but it's not instantaneous like when you floor it when you're moving a little already. People are probably talking about it being very responsive when you're already in motion, which it definitely is.


I tested acceleration today, both from a dead stop with and without Vehicle Hold. Car accelerates instantly in both cases.

I do think you have a point with regards to a delay in responsiveness from a rolling start vs. a dead stop. From a rolling start I tend to feel the acceleration "punch" a bit more when flooring the pedal, whereas in a dead stop it takes a split second for the feeling to kick in, but it's there. The car definitely responds right away, I could hear the tires and motors moving the instant pedal hit the floor.

I think, once again, its' more a difference just in the massive amount of launch we feel in P cars vs. Model 3. The 3 just has much less power behind it vs. a P car, so it doesn't feel as strong.


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## TeslaModel3Owner (Jan 14, 2018)

garsh said:


> This is the first I've heard of any kind of accelerator delay. Is anybody else noticing this?


I don't have a point of comparison, but I feel it too. There's no "wow" factor when you step on it from 0, even though the reviews mention otherwise.

I'm on 2018.12


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

TeslaModel3Owner said:


> I don't have a point of comparison, but I feel it too. There's no "wow" factor when you step on it from 0, even though the reviews mention otherwise.


But, is there an actual delay in the response, or do you feel that it's just not strong acceleration?


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## telero (Aug 3, 2017)

garsh said:


> Not applicable to EVs. They're talking about converting the movement of the accelerator panel into an electrical signal, then back into a physical motion to move the throttle of the engine. Those extra conversions introduce delay.
> 
> Everything stays electrical in an EV. An EV - and I mean *any* and *every* EV - should feel more responsive to the accelerator than any combustion vehicle.


Could be applicable if there is software limiting that this device gets around. Many ICE vehicles have had throttle by wire for some time now. But we're not talking about EV vs ICE here. We're talking any vehicle without this device vs with it. The company that makes it and the local company that installs it (they own several Teslas) claim there are gains to be had. Maybe it's all placebo, but I haven't had a chance to try it myself. It's also supposed to have eco mode, which I'm assuming is basically the same as chill mode. Anyways, someone mentioned noticing throttle delay and this product claims to be able to reduce it, even on Tesla. I'd be interested to hear if anyone does have a chance to try it out.


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## TeslaModel3Owner (Jan 14, 2018)

garsh said:


> But, is there an actual delay in the response, or do you feel that it's just not strong acceleration?


I feel a delay. Acceleration increases after you pick up a little speed, then decreases again once you reach higher speeds. Haven't tested, but I would guess best acceleration to be in the 20-55 mph range.

Don't get me wrong. Acceleration is still quite strong, but no one's going to be gasping in surprise or delight.


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

If there is a software limit, it can be removed later if Tesla determines that the motors are lasting well in the real world and the initial limits that they placed are overconservative. They did this at least once with the S.


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## Spiffywerks (Jul 30, 2017)

It might be inherent to the new motor design that it doesn't have the line "punch" that the older motors have. This motor design also limits ability of "one pedal" driving - where it doesn't stop movement completely like induction motors.

Take a look at this post from @CoastalCruiser, it leads to a very interesting read on the Model 3's motor tech:
https://teslaownersonline.com/threa...he-model-3-motor-welcome-to-the-machine.6217/

Some of the basic points:

Model S/X use Permanent Induction Motors - Make gobs of power, Cost more to make, Weight more, have a larger footprint, less efficient than PMSRM.
Model 3 uses a PMSRM, Permanent Magnet Switched Reluctance Motor - Smaller, lighter, more efficient, makes more power per weight than a PIM.
PMSRM requires a lot of computer management to make it work smoothly, because it uses a single magnetic field to move a stationary object. (It's more of a magnet pulling a metal towards it, but it needs to do it at very precisely timed intervals to make it work as a motor.)
PIM uses two opposing magnetic fields, requires little management because it's your everyday electric motor that works by creating N/S poles that make them fling each other away as strongly as they can.
I'm sure the tech will get better. Programming updates could easily possibly make the motor more powerful/efficient. If the Tesla SEMI is using three Model 3 motors, then obviously they have more to give than they are being pressed to do right now. Like @KarenRei said above, I would not be surprised if they are being overly conservative with the Model 3 for now and make it better down the road. (Other thing I LOVE about Tesla... even making a car faster after you've purchased it... FOR FREE!)


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

TeslaModel3Owner said:


> I feel a delay. Acceleration increases after you pick up a little speed, then decreases again once you reach higher speeds. Haven't tested, but I would guess best acceleration to be in the 20-55 mph range.
> 
> Don't get me wrong. Acceleration is still quite strong, but no one's going to be gasping in surprise or delight.


maybe tesla purposely did this to maybe prevent someone from driving thru their garage back wall or into a nail salon when attempting to park.


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## TeslaModel3Owner (Jan 14, 2018)

After some testing, it seems 30-60 mph is the sweet spot for maximum acceleration. There’s a noticeable extra kick to the acceleration at 30.


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## Maevra (Oct 24, 2017)

TeslaModel3Owner said:


> Don't get me wrong. Acceleration is still quite strong, but no one's going to be gasping in surprise or delight.


Oh I don't know about that... most folks who have never been in an EV will still gasp. My new coworker, who had never been inside a Tesla, went "holy shiz that is crazy fast!" when I floored it from a stoplight. I just turned around and said "and this is the slowest model". 

I will be very excited when Performance Model 3 comes out though so we can really compare all the models head to head.


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## Dogwhistle (Jul 2, 2017)

I think the only people who notice the “soft” off the line acceleration are those coming from an S or X. Those of us coming from laggy ICE vehicles won’t have a clue what they’re talking about. Most likely the initial off the line torque is slightly dialed back to save wear on drivetrain components, less “jerk” to the system. The BMW i3 had this done too, after a software update, because the sudden torque was shearing motor mounts! Not to mention the excess tire wear. Don’t worry “soft” is still 0-60 in 4.7!


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Ok, so it sounds more like the car accelerates a bit slowly at first, then starts accelerating more quickly a second or so later.

When @Rhaekar said "delay", I had taken that to mean that there was a split-second where nothing at all happened when you hit the accelerator. That would have been unacceptable.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

Dogwhistle said:


> I think the only people who notice the "soft" off the line acceleration are those coming from an S or X. Those of us coming from laggy ICE vehicles won't have a clue what they're talking about. Most likely the initial off the line torque is slightly dialed back to save wear on drivetrain components, less "jerk" to the system. The BMW i3 had this done too, after a software update, because the sudden torque was shearing motor mounts! Not to mention the excess tire wear. Don't worry "soft" is still 0-60 in 4.7!


This definitely sounds right. My Model S 85 is a pinch slower to 60 than the Model 3 if I'm not mistaken, but absolutely feels like it jolts me more from a dead stop.


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## slasher016 (Sep 12, 2017)

Coming from ICE, I haven't noticed at all (even though my ICE was very fast Audi S4.) Hopefully this is something they can update with a software release. I somewhat suspect they are intentionally limiting the car for two reasons right now 1) to ensure stability of new drive components 2) to reduce cannibalization of Model S. I think we'll get a software update decreasing the 0-60 by about a half a second when the refreshed S comes out -- hopefully soon.


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## TeslaModel3Owner (Jan 14, 2018)

I, too, came from ICE and was expecting more, based on the reviews. But then again, those reviews are mostly from low vins that may have had a different software version with more initial power. I'm on 2018.12.


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## sajakh (Oct 1, 2017)

I think the choice of low rolling resistance economy, non sport tires causes the traction control to restrict wheel spin. This limits the initial acceleration more so than the model s/x due primarily to weight. The model 3 weighs less so its traction would be less causing to to limit power more aggressively. I do think Tesla has left some power on the table with this new motor and possibly not to trample on the model 2 75d 0-60 acceleration as well. Still 0-60 in reported 4.6 sec (about 0.5 sec less than advertised) is very admirable. I think 0-60 in 4.3 is possible under the most ideal conditions and summer tires like pilot sport 4s! Exciting times!


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## sclyde (May 26, 2017)

The more I drive it, the more I notice a lack of power at certain ranges. From a stop is fine (though I can kind of relate to what OP is saying), 30-60 is amazing. Sometimes it seems like anywhere between 60-80 is peppy, others it feels like it's (relatively) gutless. Haven't paid enough attention to have specifics. I'm content for sure, but certainly wouldn't mind an uncorking down the road...


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## Maevra (Oct 24, 2017)

This acceleration "dropoff" at higher speeds is also found on S and X. It's not going to be gut punch at every level, especially once you go past 50-60mph. Here's some data (albeit old) from TMC that illustrate the differences. 30-70mph does look like the sweet spot for max impact.


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## tencate (Jan 11, 2018)

TeslaModel3Owner said:


> I, too, came from ICE and was expecting more, based on the reviews. But then again, those reviews are mostly from low vins that may have had a different software version with more initial power. I'm on 2018.12.


I've been driving mine since very early January (VIN 2xxx) starting with an early 2017 software version and have noticed no changes in acceleration feel or lag in reaction time or anything else unusual over several software updates. The Model 3 simply isn't a Model S or X, I didn't expect anything like ludicrous, but what I did get is still monstrously fun to drive and when I let other people drive the car, they're all blown away. It feels better than a colleague's Audi S5. But that's just my opinion now, no hard facts.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

tencate said:


> I've been driving mine since very early January (VIN 2xxx) starting with an early 2017 software version and have noticed no changes in acceleration feel or lag in reaction time or anything else unusual over several software updates. The Model 3 simply isn't a Model S or X, I didn't expect anything like ludicrous, but what I did get is still monstrously fun to drive and when I let other people drive the car, they're all blown away. It feels better than a colleague's Audi S5. But that's just my opinion now, no hard facts.


This is one of those "perception is reality" items I think. Tesla rates the car 0-60 in 5.1 and it's already been on the track with stock tires at 4.7. Whether it punches you in the gut or not off the line it's still getting to 60 from a dead stop in the high 4's which is no slouch.

The Model S 85 loaner I had felt faster/more instantaneous in throttle response meanwhile it hits 60 in 5.4 per Tesla and thus is slower than my car...


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## Gargantuar (May 28, 2017)

I think the initial question/observation was if the acceleration pedal does not react instantly - I did notice this problem when I test drove a Chevy Bolt (I do not own an EV, my only driving experience with EVs is some very short test drives - an I3 for 5 minutes, a Leaf for 10, and a Bolt for 5).

The I3 and the Leaf did react instantly but the Bolt did not, it bothered me right away, very noticeable. My reaction was "this needs to be fixed". It happened at any (rolling) speed when I was flooring it, as if the software was waiting to get more "input" from me. From a stand still I think it was less of an issue.

I do agree the software should help out a bit but not to the point where it is slow to react (for this reason I used to dislike all automatic ICE transmissions with 4-5 gears, there was a lot of lag). Hopefully the Model 3 will get some toggles in the menu to let the driver choose the level of assist.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

I just tested 0-60 on back to back red light stops. The first time with brake “hold” on and the second without. In each case response was immediate. I’d say I was going 15-20 MPH before I really felt the torque but no delay whatsoever in response.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I just tested 0-60 on back to back red light stops. The first time with brake "hold" on and the second without. In each case response was immediate. I'd say I was going 15-20 MPH before I really felt the torque but no delay whatsoever in response.


And everyone around you thought, "show off".


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> And everyone around you thought, "show off".


Couldn't see their reactions in my mirror


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## Dogwhistle (Jul 2, 2017)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> Couldn't see their reactions in my mirror


Ha! No doubt that will be most of the time too! At least until I have to replace the rear tires after 15k miles! I'm guilty of that in the i3 as well, the rear tires only lasted 25k, while the fronts lasted 50k! A lot of stress on them, seeing as they also do braking duties as well. I need to force myself to use Chill mode more.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

Dogwhistle said:


> Ha! No doubt that will be most of the time too! At least until I have to replace the rear tires after 15k miles! I'm guilty of that in the i3 as well, the rear tires only lasted 25k, while the fronts lasted 50k! A lot of stress on them, seeing as they also do braking duties as well. I need to force myself to use Chill mode more.


I have found that I don't drive that aggressively with the car but had to test for this thread of course


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## ummgood (Feb 13, 2017)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I have found that I don't drive that aggressively with the car...


That's not normal


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## Vladimír Michálek (Sep 24, 2017)

TeslaModel3Owner said:


> I feel a delay. Acceleration increases after you pick up a little speed, then decreases again once you reach higher speeds. Haven't tested, but I would guess best acceleration to be in the 20-55 mph range.


Suggestion: try if slip start has any effect on the torque delay. It might be a traction control issue.


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## ummgood (Feb 13, 2017)

How do you do a slip start in the Model 3?


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## Maevra (Oct 24, 2017)

ummgood said:


> How do you do a slip start in the Model 3?


Menu> Driving > Traction Control > Slip Start. It's one-time use per instance.


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## ummgood (Feb 13, 2017)

Maevra said:


> Menu> Driving > Traction Control > Slip Start. It's one-time use per instance.


Thanks!


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## north75 (Dec 7, 2017)

This kind of matches up with the guy who had a model 3 on the Dyno a few months ago. He stated that they were measuring much higher horsepower numbers when they got the car rolling at 15mph vs. starting from a stop. I seem to recall them claiming 400 HP when flooring from 15mph vs only ~250 or so from slower. I never heard if anybody else was able to corroborate their readings though.


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