# X-Ray of the Key Card for Hole Punching



## John

I took one of my Model 3 key cards to the factory today and had the techs x-ray it to locate the delicate bits that should be avoided should someone to want to punch a hole for a valet key chain or hook.

The field of view of the x-ray is limited (it's for chips), but here's a set of images that should help. Keep in mind that the antenna coils may move around a bit. You don't want to nick one, so I've added a green area in the third image where I'm advising a 2x "T" margin, as measured by the "T" in the logo, as well as using the "S" to keep clear of the top right where the chip connects to the antenna leads.

I should add: I'm not saying punching a hole in your card is the best way to hand it to a valet (there are pouches). I'm just saying IF YOU DO (or if like me you just wanted to know), here's what to keep in mind.


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## ahagge

Sorry for not quite grokking your images, but is the green in the bottom shot your addition - showing the "safe area" to punch through, or is that part of the card's internals too?


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## Brett

Brett said:


> The image links are broken for me though, any chance you can try re-uploading them?


Sorry, the images were blocked by my work's firewall. I just didn't recognize it at first because I don't normally get the broken link icons. I can see them correctly now.


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## John

ahagge said:


> Sorry for not quite grokking your images, but is the green in the bottom shot your addition - showing the "safe area" to punch through, or is that part of the card's internals too?


I added the green area in the final picture to indicate a safe area.

I should have explained it a little more. As you look at the card, mentally indent "two Ts" from each edge, and then also use the "S" to avoid the entire top right corner where the chip and leads connect. Hope that makes sense.


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## RedShift

I do x-rays and here is my pic of it:


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## ahagge

One of the things that really bugs me about these cards is the fact that they have the Tesla logo on them - meaning that someone who pinches my wallet knows immediately that (s)he has a Tesla keycard and can start looking around for a Model 3 to try it against.

I really WISH Telsa would make a fake "gas card" keycard - one that looks exactly like a gas credit card, but with a bogus number on it. Then the thief could try it at Mobil all day long for all I care - while I disable the key from my car. Bonus points for coordinating the number with Mobil so that if it's ever used, it can be immediately reported to the cops as "stolen property".

I've got half a mind to take an X-Acto knife to the entire middle of the card, where the logo is. A really BIG keychain loop...


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## MelindaV

ahagge said:


> One of the things that really bugs me about these cards is the fact that they have the Tesla logo on them - meaning that someone who pinches my wallet knows immediately that (s)he has a Tesla keycard and can start looking around for a Model 3 to try it against.
> 
> I really WISH Telsa would make a fake "gas card" keycard - one that looks exactly like a gas credit card, but with a bogus number on it. Then the thief could try it at Mobil all day long for all I care - while I disable the key from my car. Bonus points for coordinating the number with Mobil so that if it's ever used, it can be immediately reported to the cops as "stolen property".
> 
> I've got half a mind to take an X-Acto knife to the entire middle of the card, where the logo is. A really BIG keychain loop...


How is this any different than every physical car key imprinted with the car brand?


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## garsh

MelindaV said:


> How is this any different than every physical car key imprinted with the car brand?


It's not. But it is a little bit of a "missed opportunity" to hide the keycard in plain sight.


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## John

You could sand the logo flat and laminate a library card to it.
Ain't nobody want your library card.

Or better yet, photocopy both sides of your medical insurance card, and cover both sides of the card. That way, you're not carrying an extra card.

Be kinda weird to hand either of those to a valet, but they would remember who you are at least.


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## skygraff

I realize this may be off topic but, considering this is about the cars and making it both useful and hidden, thought this was the best place.

Watching a video where somebody had the phone and card together a lot got me thinking about hotel key cards and how phones will cause them to lose their programming (or whatever). Does anybody know if these cards have a volatile memory (or whatever causes that) which might result in the same failure if kept in close contact with a cell phone?

I probably won't keep them together and I'm guessing Tesla never intended them to be together since they are each other's back ups but I know it will happen.


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## garsh

skygraff said:


> Watching a video where somebody had the phone and card together a lot got me thinking about hotel key cards and how phones will cause them to lose their programming (or whatever). Does anybody know if these cards have a volatile memory (or whatever causes that) which might result in the same failure if kept in close contact with a cell phone?


I don't know for sure, but my guess is "no".

A hotel has a big pile of keycards. They just grab one from the top of the pile, program it for your room, and hand it to you.

For the Model 3, it sounds like the car is programmed to accept various keys. So there should be no need for anything volatile in the keycards themselves.


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## John

The RFID cards Tesla uses are powered and communicate using 13.56 MHz magnetic pulses, the same as the NFC on your phone if it has it. But, because the card is designed to work correctly at 13.56 MHz, your phone won't harm or change the card.


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## Alighieri256

I'm curious. Did either of you who XRay'd the card have any issues using the card afterward?


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## John

Nope.


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## Alighieri256

John said:


> Nope.


Good to hear. I was going to XRay the card when I rented one on Turo back in January, but didn't want to have to explain to the owner that I screwed up his keycard.


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## John

Replacement cards are $5, by the way.


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## CoastalCruiser

John said:


> Ain't nobody want your library card.


Exactly. Nobody wants to have a stolen library card in their possession and have the Seinfeld Library Cop on their tail.


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## RedShift

Alighieri256 said:


> I'm curious. Did either of you who XRay'd the card have any issues using the card afterward?


Nope, it works fine.


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## ahagge

MelindaV said:


> How is this any different than every physical car key imprinted with the car brand?


As I stated it, probably no different. But if somebody steals my wallet, they now have my home address (from my driver's license) AND the keys to my car. Usually that doesn't happen with a physical key or keyfob - they'll either get the key OR the wallet.


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## Travelwolf

fyi on keys- i ordered an extra set that they are going to give me when i take delivery of my car. It is $8 a pair, only sold in pairs. maybe it ends up as $10 after taxes though?


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## Tchris

CoastalCruiser said:


> Exactly. Nobody wants to have a stolen library card in their possession and have the Seinfeld Library Cop on their tail.


Bookman


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## Guest

I think the whole concept is BS, you should be able to keep it in your pocket, wallet, pocketbook or wherever.


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## garsh

kenbefound said:


> I think the whole concept is BS, you should be able to keep it in your pocket, wallet, pocketbook or wherever.


That's what the phone is for. You keep it in your pocket & get access to the car.

The keycard is just a backup, in case you lose your phone, the battery dies, or you're lending out the car.


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## Travelwolf

not to rain on a parade, but my work hands out plastic card holders like candy for name badges. Free. check where you work first guys, unless you just want something custom- then there are some posted on here that were 3d printed that are pretty awesome.


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## Guest

garsh said:


> That's what the phone is for. You keep it in your pocket & get access to the car.
> 
> The keycard is just a backup, in case you lose your phone, the battery dies, or you're lending out the car.


Good point, and I appreciate the clarification. I would just prefer the card act like a key fob like other manufactures as I purposely choose not to keep my phone on my person at all times.


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## Darelldd

Big thanks to the folks who posted the X-ray images. I was looking for that answer a few months back, and am happy to have it confirmed. It would sure be nice if they'd pop a hole in there for us, but at least now I know it can be done safely. 

I get that some folks don't like the cards, but this thread is how to make the best use out of them. Knowing where they can be punched is important... at least in my world!


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## Travelwolf

experiment in progress


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## Travelwolf

my experiment is here..... the original post was asking if anyone had tried to remove the rfid chip from the M3 key card yet. Apparently no one has so I am doing it to try to put it into a key chain to give to valets so it doesnt say tesla all over it and is not so obvious.  I know some want to advertise, but if anyone WERE to ever try to steal from valet, they would take the easiest car/keys to match up. I don't want that to be mine. 

https://teslaownersonline.com/threa...ob-anyone-try-this-yet.6469/page-2#post-96555


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## AJ Barnert

Travelwolf said:


> fyi on keys- i ordered an extra set that they are going to give me when i take delivery of my car. It is $8 a pair, only sold in pairs. maybe it ends up as $10 after taxes though?


Please tell me how/from whom you got the extra cards. Tesla (phone) told me it was $230...and required a visit to their service center and a 1-hour wait.


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## Travelwolf

AJ Barnert said:


> Please tell me how/from whom you got the extra cards. Tesla (phone) told me it was $230...and required a visit to their service center and a 1-hour wait.


I got them at my service center. call your SC directly.


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## jim stack

John said:


> I took one of my Model 3 key cards to the factory today and had the techs x-ray it to locate the delicate bits that should be avoided should someone to want to punch a hole for a valet key chain or hook.
> 
> The field of view of the x-ray is limited (it's for chips), but here's a set of images that should help. Keep in mind that the antenna coils may move around a bit. You don't want to nick one, so I've added a green area in the third image where I'm advising a 2x "T" margin, as measured by the "T" in the logo, as well as using the "S" to keep clear of the top right where the chip connects to the antenna leads.
> 
> I should add: I'm not saying punching a hole in your card is the best way to hand it to a valet (there are pouches). I'm just saying IF YOU DO (or if like me you just wanted to know), here's what to keep in mind.


CAUTION I punched a hole in the bottom left GREEN area and now my card doesn't work. 
Each card may be different but mine is now dead.


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## Karl Sun

ahagge said:


> ... - while I disable the key from my car.


 HOW do you do this? How do you know which (of 2 or 4) is the missing card?


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## Alighieri256

Karl Sun said:


> HOW do you do this? How do you know which (of 2 or 4) is the missing card?


The list of cards indicates when each was last used. So if it were me, I'd use the card I still had, and just disable all the ones that weren't used that day.


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## Alighieri256

Alighieri256 said:


> The list of cards indicates when each was last used. So if it were me, I'd use the card I still had, and just disable all the ones that weren't used that day.


Well, I went out to the car, and checked it out. Turns out, I can 'trash' my phone key, but no option to remove a key card. So I guess this would be a service visit.


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## xilex

Given that there are smaller RFID variants, like the Mobil Speedpass that you can put on your keychain, pet RFID implants, etc, instead of a card, would anyone volunteer to have an implant in their hand?


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## Alighieri256

xilex said:


> Given that there are smaller RFID variants, like the Mobil Speedpass that you can put on your keychain, pet RFID implants, etc, instead of a card, would anyone volunteer to have an implant in their hand?


I just might. But then if someone stole my hand, they'd have my car keys too.

All joking aside, as novel as the RFID keycard concept is, for cars at least, there's so much more functionality in the app and upcoming fob, that the card seems like it will become more and more of a backup. If the phone key wasn't so intermittent for many people, myself included, the card would be superfluous to begin with.


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## xilex

Alighieri256 said:


> All joking aside, as novel as the RFID keycard concept is, for cars at least, there's so much more functionality in the app and upcoming fob, that the card seems like it will become more and more of a backup. If the phone key wasn't so intermittent for many people, myself included, the card would be superfluous to begin with.


I don't have the Tesla yet, so can't really see how well auto-lock behaves, but am wary of it potentially not working after I forgot to lock my regular car last time and it got raided. I'm used to having a visual and/or auditory confirmation that it is locked.


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## Alighieri256

xilex said:


> I don't have the Tesla yet, so can't really see how well auto-lock behaves, but am wary of it potentially not working after I forgot to lock my regular car last time and it got raided. I'm used to having a visual and/or auditory confirmation that it is locked.


A horn beep on lock setting is available for exactly that reason.


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## Darelldd

Alighieri256 said:


> Well, I went out to the car, and checked it out. Turns out, I can 'trash' my phone key, but no option to remove a key card. So I guess this would be a service visit.


I now have V9 42.8. And the keycards are handled differently in this release. For one thing, the owner can program his own cards now... easily. Yay. And for another... you can certainly "trash" any of the keys now.


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## Dr DuMont

ahagge said:


> One of the things that really bugs me about these cards is the fact that they have the Tesla logo on them - meaning that someone who pinches my wallet knows immediately that (s)he has a Tesla keycard and can start looking around for a Model 3 to try it against.


------------------------------------------------------
Take a belt sander to it. Sand off the logo and the imprint thereof. Laminate your business card, employee ID, pic of your significant other, whatever to one or both sides.

I laminated mine to the back of my company ID card/entry badge. Have a pocket protector with a pocket to display the ID card. The Tesla chip doesn't bother the ID readers nor vice versa. Since I always have the ID badge in my shirt pocket, I've always got the "key" handy.

Also have one hidden, but it takes a tool to get to. And it is set as a Valet card. If you don't know the password, you aren't gonna set any speed records...

Belt and suspenders, don'tcha know?


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## Dr DuMont

garsh said:


> I don't know for sure, but my guess is "no".
> 
> A hotel has a big pile of keycards. They just grab one from the top of the pile, program it for your room, and hand it to you.


The poster asked about cell phones deactivating hotel key cards. Only the cards with the magnetic stripes like credit cards. A 
magnet or the field from the cell phone speaker will wipe damage the stripe. The RFID cards with smart door locks will not
be affected. They program the cards to work in a certain lock for a certain period of time. WHen the time expires, the card no
longer works. Some systems start a timer in the door lock for the same purpose.

The contactless cards use an RFID type device, but the lock has to have some power for the clock.


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## JasonF

NFC/RFID cards can only be damaged by physical damage or extreme heat. Or maybe high voltage pulse if you get the coil close enough. Okay, maybe I'm also not including intentional damage by overwriting the contents of the chip, but that's not someone most people will try to do.


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## Dr DuMont

AJ Barnert said:


> Please tell me how/from whom you got the extra cards. Tesla (phone) told me it was $230...and required a visit to their service center and a 1-hour wait.


WOW! What a difference a couple of years makes. Last week I bought two more cards from a Service Center. They can't take cash. Their Super Whizbang Apple Pay system (three guys tried their individual units) wouldn't read any of my debit/credit cards. So I was made a gift of them. Went to the car, programmed the car to recognize the cards in about 2 minutes. 
$230? Jeeze... I will program cards for that all day, and supply the cards!


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## yotam.aviv

RedShift said:


> I do x-rays and here is my pic of it:


Thank you for that image!
I drilled a hole near the opposite corner of the chip business, and my key seems to be working fine.
(My issue is that when I go surfing, getting worked by a wave can totally empty any shorts pocket, and this is why surfing board shots typically have a tether for keys.)


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