# Sticky  WHAT'S YOUR SAFETY SCORE?



## Reliev

found this on reddit


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## Reliev

I found this also
https://www.tesla.com/support/safety-score


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## nonStopSwagger

Reliev said:


> I fell asleep good thing though because I got the update about 45 min ago still not app update for me on android.


Android app is up on apk mirror. I installed it, safety score works.


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## Reliev

nonStopSwagger said:


> Android app is up on apk mirror. I installed it, safety score works.


why arent you at 100? what was considered a hard brake?


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## nonStopSwagger

Reliev said:


> why arent you at 100? what was considered a hard brake?


I was coming up on a stoplight that just turned yellow. My options were speed up way above the limit and beat the light, or stop. I assumed (incorrectly) that part of the score was for exceeding the speed limit, so I didn't want to chance that. Hit the brakes.

After the drive I saw that speeding is not a factor in the driving score. Next time, I'll just gun it


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## FRC

I'm 2 days, 2 trips, and 83 miles into developing my safety score. Coincidentally, during this period, I will be making a +/-40 mile trip every day to attend to my Father's medical needs, so comparing behavior/results day-to-day should be fairly interesting.

Day 1: 41 miles resulting in an overall score of 97. Dinged for aggressive turning and hard braking.

Day 2: 42 miles resulting in a daily score of 100. Overall score of 99. Interestingly, I was dinged for following too close(a car to my left moved into my lane with no signal and I couldn't slow quickly enough for fear of a hard braking ding), but this ding did not reduce my 100 daily score.

After 2 days, I've learned the following: Don't trust AP to improve your score(I know AP dings don't count, but imperfect disengagement of AP does).
Accelerate VERY slowly, Decelerate VERY slowly, Roll through turns VERY slowly. In general, if you feel any G forces at all, you will be dinged.
Don't stop for stop signs or lights unless you have to. Any full stop risks an excessive braking ding unless you do it very gradually over a long distance.
Try to never be within 10 car lengths of anyone else because you can never be sure what they might do to cause a ding.

Thus far, I feel like my "safety score driving" is about 15% less safe than my normal driving because it rewards me for running stop signs and lights, rolling slowly through turns and intersections, and vastly increases my chances of causing a road rage situation. I also find it interesting that, in order to qualify for FSD Beta, I have to drive MUCH more safely than FSD Beta does.


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## Madmolecule

Doesn't look good for me. I need safe drivers that I can hire to drive my car for a week


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## slacker775

I’ve driven as I normally do - though only a bit over 40 miles so far - and I’m still at 100. I have a longer drive coming up later today so we’ll see if there are any issues from that. I’m definitely not letting my teenager drive though. Don’t need those dings!


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## FRC

My wife has agreed not to drive my car during the evaluation period. She would totally ruin my score, and she knows it!


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## mrau

A score of 88 is not bad. Tesla says "_Most drivers will have a Safety Score of 80 or above._"


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## mrau

Wonder if we can add a poll to this. Maybe have a few categories like 90-100, 80-89, 70-79, 60-69 and below 60. Folks could update their score every few days.


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## FRC

mrau said:


> A score of 88 is not bad. Tesla says "_Most drivers will have a Safety Score of 80 or above._"


Not so sure about that. If you read that statement to mean that 80 will represent an average score(as I do), is 88, or 10% better than average, good enough? I don't think we have enough information to know. What % will be allowed FSD Beta? I haven't seen any indication of that. yet.


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## FRC

Good Idea!! I'm unsure how to add a poll after the Fact. @garsh or @GDN or @iChris93 , could one of you help?


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## Madmolecule

And my biggest penalty was for unsafe following. Honestly it was not my fault. I was coming up to a stoplight I had already got the warning that it was stopping, I was about the fourth car back from the red light when it turned green. I tapped the gas pedal to signify proceed. The car assumed I wanted to ram into the car in front of me. It had not seen the greenlight yet. Either way I got the flashing yellow car in front of me warning. I was in auto pilot the whole time. I don’t think there is much of an appeals process.
I was also wondering if I get points deducted for my bad singing. I just hope this doesn’t go on my permanent record. I wonder what the minimum miles you need to drive in a week is? I might be best to rent a car, and then drive down a straight road on the seventh day. it used to be easy to spend $10,000.


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## Reliev

FRC said:


> Not so sure about that. If you read that statement to mean that 80 will represent an average score(as I do), is 88, or 10% better than average, good enough? I don't think we have enough information to know. What % will be allowed FSD Beta? I haven't seen any indication of that. yet.


well, we still have no idea if this is a cya thing or what the cut-off is or the selection, if they went from 100 first then someone else I can see a lot of people upset. I wish we got some communication maybe on that safety site they can say how they are picking us?


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## iChris93

FRC said:


> Good Idea!! I'm unsure how to add a poll after the Fact. @garsh or @GDN or @iChris93 , could one of you help?


Added and made the vote private so people can be honest without worry.


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## Long Ranger

Madmolecule said:


> And my biggest penalty was for unsafe following.


Actually, most of your penalty was for hard braking. Unsafe following hardly has any impact on your score. There's a simulator in the app that lets you see the score for hypothetical numbers. FCW is the one thing that can really kill your score, and hard braking seems to be the one with the next biggest potential hit.


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## vinnie97

I guess they haven't released the latest app update for my version of Android, as I see nothing about a safety score.


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## Yanquetino

I had to chuckle when I saw my first "safety score" from yesterday. It gave me a red 46.1% for "unsafe following." Evidently the scoring factors can't tell when one is in a bumper-to-bumper traffic jam on the freeway, inching along at 2 mph on Autopilot, for nearly an hour, because of a horrible wreck more than 2 miles up ahead. :grimacing:


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## JasonF

I'm guessing that scoring feature only works if you have FSD?

Probably for the best. Orlando is pretty bad, and I have to make some kind of emergency maneuver at least once per day.


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## iChris93

Yanquetino said:


> I had to chuckle when I saw my first "safety score" from yesterday. It gave me a red 46.1% for "unsafe following." Evidently the scoring factors can't tell when one is in a bumper-to-bumper traffic jam on the freeway, inching along at 2 mph on Autopilot, for nearly an hour, because of a horrible wreck more than 2 miles up ahead. :grimacing:
> 
> View attachment 40002





iChris93 said:


> PSA: Read the Safety Score documentation.
> 
> AP miles count towards miles driven but anything that would be a negative for the safety score is not counted against you if AP is engaged.
> 
> Follow distance is only calculated when driving 50 mph+.
> 
> You look silly if you blame AP or follow distance when going under 50 mph for your dings.


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## JWardell

FYI, the data that Tesla is actually recording and reporting to the cloud is:

autosteer_strike_out_count
lane_departure_count
abs_event_count
user_abs_event_count
abs_brake_10mph_event_count
forward_collision_count
collision_warning_count
ms_in_headway_0_to_1_s
ms_in_headway_1_to_3_s
ms_in_headway_0_to_1_s_user
ms_in_headway_1_to_3_s_user
long_accel_1_mps2_ms
long_accel_3_mps2_ms
long_accel_1_mps2_ms_user
long_accel_3_mps2_ms_user
lat_accel_2_mps2_ms
lat_accel_4_mps2_ms
lat_accel_2_mps2_ms_user
lat_accel_4_mps2_ms_user
distance_non_ap

IMO this does not define safe driving at all, in fact there are several situation where braking quickly or swerving are required to be safe, so this discourages that. Same goes with everyone turning the forward collision warnings down or off.
If anything this is just a tool for tesla's marketing cool-aid where they can claim autopilot is "safer" than drivers if measured by these metrics.

If Tesla really wanted to measure how safe a driver uses autopilot, they should be recording percentage of time hands are on the wheel, and even better using the cabin camera to record percentage of time the driver is paying attention.

I'm not a fan of labeling drivers with data to the mothership, thankfully it seems with HW2.5 I don't have to worry about it.


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## iChris93

JWardell said:


> Same goes with everyone turning the forward collision warnings down or off.


This doesn't change the reporting.


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## JWardell

iChris93 said:


> This doesn't change the reporting.
> View attachment 40004


Who reads instructions?
I guarantee people are going to turn it down.
Heck I turned mine down last week just reading about the upcoming feature.


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## iChris93

JWardell said:


> Who reads instructions?
> I guarantee people are going to turn it down.
> Heck I turned mine down last week just reading about the upcoming feature.


Yeah, it's pretty clear most don't.


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## Tombolian

Can somebody tell me how to see the safety score, or possibly why I can't see it? I bought FSD with my M3, downloaded the button, pressed the button to put myself in the queue (1st thing Saturday morning), upgraded my app on my Samsung device, drove about 20 miles yesterday, but I can't find my safety score anywhere. What am I missing?


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## iChris93

Tombolian said:


> Can somebody tell me how to see the safety score, or possibly why I can't see it? I bought FSD with my M3, downloaded the button, pressed the button to put myself in the queue (1st thing Saturday morning), upgraded my app on my Samsung device, drove about 20 miles yesterday, but I can't find my safety score anywhere. What am I missing?


Not available on Android yet.


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## Drhalo

I have IOS and still can't see it. What am I doing wrong?


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## FRC

Drhalo said:


> I have IOS and still can't see it. What am I doing wrong?


Have you updated IOS to 4.1? If not, go to app store and update.


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## GDN

Drhalo said:


> I have IOS and still can't see it. What am I doing wrong?


If you've updated SW both in the car and on the phone and pressed the button, you are likely doing nothing wrong. It is just taking some time to show up. I did all the above yesterday including deleting the App and reinstalling and still nothing for a couple of hour. Partner did the same about 6 PM last night, nothing on that car until today after noon. When it did show up, it did capture his drive from early this morning. I'd say perhaps give it a few hours.


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## GDN

FRC said:


> I'm 2 days, 2 trips, and 83 miles into developing my safety score. Coincidentally, during this period, I will be making a +/-40 mile trip every day to attend to my Father's medical needs, so comparing behavior/results day-to-day should be fairly interesting.
> 
> Day 1: 41 miles resulting in an overall score of 97. Dinged for aggressive turning and hard braking.
> 
> Day 2: 42 miles resulting in a daily score of 100. Overall score of 99. Interestingly, I was dinged for following too close(a car to my left moved into my lane with no signal and I couldn't slow quickly enough for fear of a hard braking ding), but this ding did not reduce my 100 daily score.
> 
> After 2 days, I've learned the following: Don't trust AP to improve your score(I know AP dings don't count, but imperfect disengagement of AP does).
> Accelerate VERY slowly, Decelerate VERY slowly, Roll through turns VERY slowly. In general, if you feel any G forces at all, you will be dinged.
> Don't stop for stop signs or lights unless you have to. Any full stop risks an excessive braking ding unless you do it very gradually over a long distance.
> Try to never be within 10 car lengths of anyone else because you can never be sure what they might do to cause a ding.
> 
> Thus far, I feel like my "safety score driving" is about 15% less safe than my normal driving because it rewards me for running stop signs and lights, rolling slowly through turns and intersections, and vastly increases my chances of causing a road rage situation. I also find it interesting that, in order to qualify for FSD Beta, I have to drive MUCH more safely than FSD Beta does.


WIth your post you made me realize I may have nothing to look forward too. First 20 miles last night score was 83, second 20 on the way back home score went up to 93. I've got about 20 miles tomorrow, but most days my car never goes more than 2 to 4 miles. If I end up with some sort of braking event or forward collision just every other day or so (and it happens) - I'm screwed ! lol. I'd need a couple hundred highway miles per day to average all that out. Will see how it progresses from here.

My drive tomorrow is to the service center to see if they will fix my LTE issue. The good news is that it also notes that drives while in service mode don't count either. So I'll have to drive like a good person all other times.


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## Tombolian

iChris93 said:


> Not available on Android yet.


Thank you! Of course, this begs the question; Am I still being graded (one would assume so)?
(a few moments later)
Nevermind, I have an iPad that I just loaded the latest Tesla app upon and boom! I see my score (is 98). Yay!
Thanks again!


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## Drhalo

My score finally showed up! 18% unsafe follow distance? I literally drove like my dad. Lots of people on the highway cutting me off and swerving in front of me. I can’t control any of it.


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## Ksb466

Madmolecule said:


> And my biggest penalty was for unsafe following. Honestly it was not my fault. I was coming up to a stoplight I had already got the warning that it was stopping, I was about the fourth car back from the red light when it turned green. I tapped the gas pedal to signify proceed. The car assumed I wanted to ram into the car in front of me. It had not seen the greenlight yet. Either way I got the flashing yellow car in front of me warning. I was in auto pilot the whole time. I don't think there is much of an appeals process.
> I was also wondering if I get points deducted for my bad singing. I just hope this doesn't go on my permanent record. I wonder what the minimum miles you need to drive in a week is? I might be best to rent a car, and then drive down a straight road on the seventh day. it used to be easy to spend $10,000.


Single click wand instead of hitting ACC to tell it to proceed at its own pace.


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## collinversluis

Tombolian said:


> Can somebody tell me how to see the safety score, or possibly why I can't see it? I bought FSD with my M3, downloaded the button, pressed the button to put myself in the queue (1st thing Saturday morning), upgraded my app on my Samsung device, drove about 20 miles yesterday, but I can't find my safety score anywhere. What am I missing?


Hey! In case you haven't found this by now,

1.) Uninstall your tesla app

2.) Go download this
https://www.apkmirror.com/apk/tesla...release/tesla-4-1-0-663-android-apk-download/
3.) Get APK Mirror on android play and then select the apk that you just downloaded.

This will force the most recent update on to your device. I did this on my oneplus and safety score is working great!
Nothing will break and it will update from android normally when the next one releases. Also, this fixes the broken summon issue if you have that too.


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## garsh

For those who haven't done so before, be careful about bypassing the Play Store to install updates. You're bypassing some of the protections that the Play Store provides when you do so. It's an easy way to end up with an pwned phone.

That said, apkmirror.com is owned by AndroidPolice.com and only hosts apps that are offered gratis (no cracked for-pay apps), and they have their own vetting process, so it should be safe.


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## shareef777

My daily commute consists of a short 4mi drive to drop off my daughter at school in the morning, then a short 2mi drive to drop off my sons at school. Then it's a 6mi drive late afternoon to pick them all up. This morning was the first time I took them out driving with the Almighty Tesla Safety Score watching me.

Based off my "new & improved" driving, my kids seem to now think I've aged another 20 years over the weekend 😂


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## Madmolecule

I put on my turn signal exiting my driveway.
Still don't know if sunglasses help or hurt score.
Listening or responding to texts?
Is gigagod monitoring how well you drive or your ability to manage autopilot? Do you need to have autopilot engaged for a certain % or miles?

aslo, tried summon at the park yesterday, what an embarrassment. easy straight route on a beautiful day. The car panicked, and I had to abort and chase it down when it stared to go the other way. I wonder if I will lose points for this! I had to unlock through the app as the car would not let me in, once I caught it. Alpha at best


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## JGS

iChris93 said:


> Not available on Android yet.


It is available in Android. You just have to wait. I installed the update last Saturday. I drove the car for about 120 miles yesterday, and just at the end of the day the Safety Score popped up in my Tesla app.


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## JGS

Does anybody know what is the Passing Safety Score?


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## Mr. Spacely

JGS said:


> Does anybody know what is the Passing Safety Score?


I don't know, but hope they grade on a curve...


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## FRC

After 3 days and a cumulative score of 98, I'm already tired of this graded driving. I've seen reports that this period will last one week to one month. Anybody know any details? What/who decides how long this continues?


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## shareef777

FRC said:


> After 3 days and a cumulative score of 98, I'm already tired of this graded driving. I've seen reports that this period will last one week to one month. Anybody know any details? What/who decides how long this continues?


Sadly, no one knows any details what so ever. Even specifics like "if driving behavior is good for 7 days, beta access will be granted" from Elon doesn't mean much. Who's to say you're not considered "good" enough for FSD unless you have a score of 100?


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## GDN

I believe I read that the FSD beta can be revoked at any time, which leads me to believe that they will continue to monitor your actions/scores/habits in some manner. 

The Big Brother actions will not cease if you are selected, and likely if you are not as I would think they'd want to continue to expand every couple of weeks or each release so they want to know who the next worthy set of minions will be.


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## Long Ranger

FRC said:


> I've seen reports that this period will last one week to one month. Anybody know any details?


The answer you seek lies within your own quoted time period. I dare not speak it myself.


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## Tombolian

JGS said:


> It is available in Android. You just have to wait. I installed the update last Saturday. I drove the car for about 120 miles yesterday, and just at the end of the day the Safety Score popped up in my Tesla app.


At this time, you might be the exception. It's still not showing on my galaxy S9 plus even though it's clear as day on my iPad.


collinversluis said:


> Hey! In case you haven't found this by now,
> 
> 1.) Uninstall your tesla app
> 
> 2.) Go download this
> https://www.apkmirror.com/apk/tesla...release/tesla-4-1-0-663-android-apk-download/
> 3.) Get APK Mirror on android play and then select the apk that you just downloaded.
> 
> This will force the most recent update on to your device. I did this on my oneplus and safety score is working great!
> Nothing will break and it will update from android normally when the next one releases. Also, this fixes the broken summon issue if you have that too.


Sadly, my phone is managed by my employer who pays the bills for it. I'm unable to do this recommendation, but it sounds great for others that can accept the risk. Thanks for posting this!


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## Klaus-rf

JGS said:


> Does anybody know what is the Passing Safety Score?


105 or higher??


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## NYer

FRC said:


> I'm 2 days, 2 trips, and 83 miles into developing my safety score. Coincidentally, during this period, I will be making a +/-40 mile trip every day to attend to my Father's medical needs, so comparing behavior/results day-to-day should be fairly interesting.
> 
> Day 1: 41 miles resulting in an overall score of 97. Dinged for aggressive turning and hard braking.
> 
> Day 2: 42 miles resulting in a daily score of 100. Overall score of 99. Interestingly, I was dinged for following too close(a car to my left moved into my lane with no signal and I couldn't slow quickly enough for fear of a hard braking ding), but this ding did not reduce my 100 daily score.
> 
> After 2 days, I've learned the following: Don't trust AP to improve your score(I know AP dings don't count, but imperfect disengagement of AP does).
> Accelerate VERY slowly, Decelerate VERY slowly, Roll through turns VERY slowly. In general, if you feel any G forces at all, you will be dinged.
> Don't stop for stop signs or lights unless you have to. Any full stop risks an excessive braking ding unless you do it very gradually over a long distance.
> Try to never be within 10 car lengths of anyone else because you can never be sure what they might do to cause a ding.
> 
> Thus far, I feel like my "safety score driving" is about 15% less safe than my normal driving because it rewards me for running stop signs and lights, rolling slowly through turns and intersections, and vastly increases my chances of causing a road rage situation. I also find it interesting that, in order to qualify for FSD Beta, I have to drive MUCH more safely than FSD Beta does.


I haven't purchased any of the automated driving or FSD features. Wondering if I can still get a "safety score" from our Fremont overlords.


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## shareef777

NYer said:


> I haven't purchased any of the automated driving or FSD features. Wondering if I can still get a "safety score" from our Fremont overlords.


Yeah, this seems like it'd be a life saving feature to the general public. I can also use it to track my teenagers driving habits and talk down to them if they get anything less than 100 like Tesla is gonna do to those of us wanting FSD.


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## vinnie97

99 after 3 days cuz I'm an aggressive turner. The APK Mirror worked flawlessly for me, btw.


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## SAronian

3-day score is 95, but today's commute (60 miles total) was a 98


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## Madmolecule

I would be very careful scoring above a 95. I don't think you'll be able to get full self driving, if you score above 95. The gigagods will deem you too valuable and capable as a driver, and you're doing just fine on your own, your talents will be better suited as an AI trainer. Someone must teach the robots,


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## Tombolian

Madmolecule said:


> I would be very careful scoring above a 95. I don't think you'll be able to get full self driving, if you score above 95. The gigagods will deem you too valuable and capable as a driver, and you're doing just fine on your own, your talents will be better suited as an AI trainer. Someone must teach the robots,
> View attachment 40020


The question becomes, do we trust in the almighty Elon when he says it will go to the 100's first, then the 99's, then the 98's (in today's tweets)? I think I'm going to do to that which Elon alludes.


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## M3OC Rules

Madmolecule said:


> I would be very careful scoring above a 95. I don't think you'll be able to get full self driving, if you score above 95. The gigagods will deem you too valuable and capable as a driver, and you're doing just fine on your own, your talents will be better suited as an AI trainer. Someone must teach the robots,
> View attachment 40020


I think you're an AI that shouldn't be trusted


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## shareef777

Maintaining my 100 Safety Score after a few days. My sanity score on the other hand, well I'd imagine it's inversely proportional to the aforementioned safety score 😔


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## MJJ

shareef777 said:


> Maintaining my 100 Safety Score after a few days. My sanity score on the other hand, well I'd imagine it's inversely proportional to the aforementioned safety score 😔
> 
> View attachment 40040


This will be great until they see your profile photo.


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## MJJ

I am rooting for somebody to try to get a zero. I do want them to shoot video in the process.


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## shareef777

MJJ said:


> This will be great until they see your profile photo.


You mean that I always give 100 when I drive my Tesla! 😆


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## garsh

MJJ said:


> I am rooting for somebody to try to get a zero.


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## NR4P

The problem with the score is that you have to drive like a 80 year old. Turn very slowly, don't accelerate until after the turn. Want to avoid Unsafe Following, the only sure way to do that is drive below 50 mph. Because if you drive over 50 then Unsafe Following is tracked. Say you are going 55 in a 55 MPH zone. Someone gets annoyed at you because traffic is moving at 65-70 MPH so they cut you off. DING, you just got an unsafe following. Even worse, if you hit the brake when they cut you off then you get a ding for Aggressive Braking too. Two dings for just driving the speed limit minding your own business.


We didn't buy our Tesla's to drive so very very conservatively. Elon hypes speed, handling etc. and now turned us into old men and women to get the FSD Beta.


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## FRC

NR4P said:


> The problem with the score is that you have to drive like a 80 year old. Turn very slowly, don't accelerate until after the turn. Want to avoid Unsafe Following, the only sure way to do that is drive below 50 mph. Because if you drive over 50 then Unsafe Following is tracked. Say you are going 55 in a 55 MPH zone. Someone gets annoyed at you because traffic is moving at 65-70 MPH so they cut you off. DING, you just got an unsafe following. Even worse, if you hit the brake when they cut you off then you get a ding for Aggressive Braking too. Two dings for just driving the speed limit minding your own business.
> 
> We didn't buy our Tesla's to drive so very very conservatively. Elon hypes speed, handling etc. and now turned us into old men and women to get the FSD Beta.


Elon doesn't have the power to turn me into an old man...life already did that.


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## slacker775

The only factor I’m finding that is perhaps a big sensitive for ‘normal’ driving would be the unsafe follow distance. It’s actually probably right, just goes against how most people drive. I’m driving the same as I always have and that’s the only one that is dinging me with any regularity. I would suspect a good chunk of it winds up being how everybody on the roads down here seem to be going a different speed and you get boxed in and all of that joyful stuff. Even the Mrs has gotten dinged on that and she doesn’t ride on the car in front of her at all. The fwc and hard turns stuff shows up on occasion but gets averaged out into the noise.


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## MJJ

I posted this on “another forum” but it seems relevant to our chat here:

“I’m working on a theory that “safe” is not the target demographic. I think they are after people who are willing to accommodate and tolerate FSD’s contemplative pace. If you are not willing to creep around corners and patiently wait for FSD to work itself through problems, you’re not a good candidate.”


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## JasonF

slacker775 said:


> The only factor I'm finding that is perhaps a big sensitive for 'normal' driving would be the unsafe follow distance. It's actually probably right, just goes against how most people drive. I'm driving the same as I always have and that's the only one that is dinging me with any regularity. I would suspect a good chunk of it winds up being how everybody on the roads down here seem to be going a different speed and you get boxed in and all of that joyful stuff. Even the Mrs has gotten dinged on that and she doesn't ride on the car in front of her at all. The fwc and hard turns stuff shows up on occasion but gets averaged out into the noise.


I'm not training FSD right now, so this may not apply, but...

My car has been rear-ended or nearly in the past enough that I started leaving enough space in front of me so that if the car ahead stops very suddenly, I can cushion it with a nice, smooth stop. It paid off just this past Sunday when traffic came to a sudden stop ahead while someone was tailgating me! The distance equivalent would be about a 3 on Autopilot. _That_ might be what FSD training is looking for.

Of course if I was training for FSD, I would probably be closer to the zero @garsh is looking for. I had to take the State Farm sensor out of the car because it kept sending me threatening emails for not using hyper-mile acceleration from stop lights, and for not driving below the speed limit. Yes, that's right, it would ding me for driving between the speed limit and +5.


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## Madmolecule

Is the proper yellow light behavior, hit the gas? I don’t want to aggressively brakes for safety.
is it aggressive braking, or quality brakes that you have confidence in?
It’s going to be interesting how they can deny anybody with a score above 70 that has purchased the software, and has agreed to the liability of a beta state

We are being evaluated by Beta software. The ranking should be the top 70 percentile of Tesla drivers in similar road conditions.

I don’t agree with taking a test for beta software. I am only doing it to show that I have done my part, and I’m waiting for Elon to do his. I have purchased it, and insured it, waited for it, maintain my vehicle for it, upgraded my computer for, watched the shills on YouTube showing how it might work, agreed to the beta terms, And even watch experts hold up computer chips automation day.
It’s gonna be great, if I can just pass this test. It’s all on me


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## Tombolian

Did your safety score get dinged from your last drive? Are you less than 100? Is that what's bothering you Bunky? Is there a reason nobody is explaining how to game this? Did I miss the memo?
I digress... So I'm out for my daily drive so I can add to my weekly safety score and everything is going fine until I notice a truck driving backwards about 15mph down his 100-foot driveway paying no attention to the road he is about to reverse into forcing me to brake hard so he wouldn't t-bone me. Jerk. I get home and check my score to see that I got dinged down to 98% for that. Later, when I took another couple of drives to the store and back, I checked my score to see that, due to my perfect driving for the last two trips, the daily score had gone to 99%. Beautiful! Armed with this info, it only took 5 more perfect trips to raise my daily to 100.
Of course, nobody knows if this type of 100 equates to a 'natural' 100 and if it will be treated the same in the end, but, whatever. I only wish I knew this on days 1 and 2 when I got 99 and 98 respectively. Maybe this will help somebody else going for a week of 100's.


----------



## Mr. Spacely

As we have been "Driving Miss Daisy" for a number of days now, we see that scores are almost always in the 90s. I know this has already been suggested, but please change the poll to reflect more like this:

100%
98-99%
95-97%
90-94%
80-89%
less than 80%

@iChris93


----------



## skygraff

Gotta say, I think this is less a safety score and more a tolerance score. It really seems to be checking whether the average driving conditions and drivers in your community will actually tolerate a car being driven this way by FSD.

I signed up simply to see how the system would rate my normal driving (former driving instructor and bus driver with pretty safe habits) since I don't really want the FSD UI nor do I drive enough to be much of an FSD beta data point; not to mention, I don't have a lot of faith that Tesla will incorporate feedback. In that context, I've been dinged for unsafe following (even though the vast majority of my driving over the last two days has been under the 50 mile per hour threshold), aggressive turning (even though the only "aggressive" turns) were done following the underbanked road at speed limit or below, hard braking (pretty sure that was when I was using TACC at a stop light), and forward collision warnings (every instance was when vehicles turning off the road ahead scared the system even though the vehicles were completely clear of the lane).

For me, anyway, it's all academic but, considering how many of the factors seem geared toward highway driving even though the highway stack is unchanged, I'm not convinced Tesla is focusing on the right driving skills for those they expect to oversee their nascent street level FSD functions.


----------



## shareef777

skygraff said:


> Gotta say, I think this is less a safety score and more a tolerance score. It really seems to be checking whether the average driving conditions and drivers in your community will actually tolerate a car being driven this way by FSD.


Think you're onto something there. I've been on a few trips that involve curved roads that have a relatively high speed limit. I'd wager if I were even 5mph below the speed limit my score would have taken a ding. Because of the more rural environment I live in I"m able to take turns/stops extremely slowly. If I still lived in the previous suburb I was in (or worse yet the city) there'd be zero chance I maintain a high score. Would be lucky to stay in the 80s. My area would be perfect to test out FSD because there's almost always plenty of space between me and other vehicles and relatedly low congestion of vehicles. Yet plenty of turns/curves/lights/signs for FSD to be tested against.

My brothers been driving in the city a lot and he's trying to be as conservative as possible and is sitting in the 80s now.


----------



## GDN

For those that are driving and watching scores and believe this kind of driving is changing how you drive or not real world, what do you think FSD is going to do for you? FSD is going to drive by a set of instructions and rules. You might get some input to have your FSD drive 5 MPH over the speed limits, but it will still only drive by rules. It is going to drive like this each time you get in it.

It will have to be the chicken or the egg play out here, but with your car driving with FSD software, regardless of who it is from, you will likely have pissed off people around you and you likely won't be happy. Your car will turn every turn at the same speed. Your car will approach all train tracks at the same speed and react the same way at each. Your car won't move over for someone tailgating you as you pass on the interstate. You see how this can go on and on. Lets just say that FSD will still be baby steps for years, even with what we see happening today. We are seeing positive moves, but even if we were to have something we call FSD roll out in the next few years, most people aren't going to be willing to just ride along with it every day.


----------



## Major Victory

For point of reference, yesterday during one of four short drives, I had 56.7 forward collision warnings Scored. Zero audible warnings and nothing unusual driving as I had zero prior or since forward collision warnings. Dropped my score for the day to 96 as it was otherwise perfect and 98 from 99 overall score.

I have not read any other similar forward collision warning bug experiences. Inexplicable.


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## TomT

So far after 4 days and about 250 miles I'm still a perfect 100... I usually use a follow distance of 5 in autopilot... I'm not really driving that much different...


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## Long Ranger

Major Victory said:


> For point of reference, yesterday during one of four short drives, I had 56.7 forward collision warnings Scored. Zero audible warnings and nothing unusual driving as I had zero prior or since forward collision warnings. Dropped my score for the day to 96 as it was otherwise perfect and 98 from 99 overall score.
> 
> I have not read any other similar forward collision warning bug experiences. Inexplicable.


Maybe you understand this, but I just want to point out that you didn't have 56.7 FCW events. That number is the rate per 1000 miles. One FCW on a drive of 17.6 miles would show as 56.7 for that statistic.

In terms of no audible warning, how do you have your FCW setting? The Safety Score is based upon triggers at the medium setting, regardless of your actual setting. If you have it set to "Late" then you wouldn't hear all medium triggers.


----------



## LastGas

FSD is Beta software, and anyone who watches the FSD videos knows that it sometimes makes significant mistakes.

Guess what? The Safety Score is Beta too.


----------



## LastGas

JWardell said:


> I'm not a fan of labeling drivers with data to the mothership, thankfully it seems with HW2.5 I don't have to worry about it.


Tesla's Safety Score is Beta software. Owners should remain attentive and keep their hands on the wheel.


----------



## Long Ranger

I'm thinking I'll try changing my FCW setting to Early. That way, if it triggers, I _might_ have a chance to slow before the medium FCW triggers and dings my score. Just a question of whether my reaction time can be fast enough to make a difference.

One thing I've noticed with FCW in the past is that isn't just based upon your closing rate with the vehicle in front. It triggers much more easily if you show no signs of slowing. I've found that just a tiny bit of regen braking usually prevents it from triggering. Hoping that maybe I can use this fact coupled with the early warning to prevent a potential FCW event on my score.


----------



## Tombolian

Major Victory said:


> For point of reference, yesterday during one of four short drives, I had 56.7 forward collision warnings Scored. Zero audible warnings and nothing unusual driving as I had zero prior or since forward collision warnings. Dropped my score for the day to 96 as it was otherwise perfect and 98 from 99 overall score.
> 
> I have not read any other similar forward collision warning bug experiences. Inexplicable.


This is what I was trying to say above. If you want that 96 for the day to go up (and your overall score accordingly) go out and drive some short drives perfectly (I think anything more than .1 miles counts as a 'trip'). I think (again, not sure yet) that you might need to actually get out of the car at the end of the drive for it to be designated as a 'trip'. Yesterday, when I drove about 5 miles, parked in a parking lot for a few minutes, then drove home, it was recorded as only 1 trip. I'm still fuzzy on this, but give it a shot.


----------



## Long Ranger

Tombolian said:


> This is what I was trying to say above. If you want that 96 for the day to go up (and your overall score accordingly) go out and drive some short drives perfectly (I think anything more than .1 miles counts as a 'trip'). I think (again, not sure yet) that you might need to actually get out of the car at the end of the drive for it to be designated as a 'trip'. Yesterday, when I drove about 5 miles, parked in a parking lot for a few minutes, then drove home, it was recorded as only 1 trip. I'm still fuzzy on this, but give it a shot.


I don't believe separate trips help at all. Within one day, all your trip data is combined together to form the daily score. I don't think number of trips factors into the calculation.

I do agree with your overall concept of additional driving at the end of the day to raise a low daily score. Once the day is over, that daily score is fixed and multiplied by the number of miles you drove that day. This is particularly important if you drove a lot of miles without a lot of braking or turning. In that case, a small number of braking or turning incidents can have a large negative effect. It's pretty easy fix this before the end of the day by going out and doing a bunch of mild braking and mild turning.

Correcting for a FCW event at the end of the day is much more difficult than fixing braking or turning, because FCW is measured per mile. The only way to improve your FCW score is to drive a lot more miles.


----------



## Tombolian

Long Ranger said:


> I don't believe separate trips help at all. Within one day, all your trip data is combined together to form the daily score. I don't think number of trips factors into the calculation.


Thank you, I had to think about it for a second, but I now believe you are probably correct. None of my short trips yesterday were actually that short, at least 5 miles per trip, but I now suppose that if I did tiny .2 mile trips, it would have taken many many more to bring me back to 100 for the day. I'll have to take this into account when I need to do this again...

...and I agree with everything else you said. Makes total sense.


----------



## M3OC Rules

GDN said:


> For those that are driving and watching scores and believe this kind of driving is changing how you drive or not real world, what do you think FSD is going to do for you? FSD is going to drive by a set of instructions and rules. You might get some input to have your FSD drive 5 MPH over the speed limits, but it will still only drive by rules. It is going to drive like this each time you get in it.
> 
> It will have to be the chicken or the egg play out here, but with your car driving with FSD software, regardless of who it is from, you will likely have pissed off people around you and you likely won't be happy. Your car will turn every turn at the same speed. Your car will approach all train tracks at the same speed and react the same way at each. Your car won't move over for someone tailgating you as you pass on the interstate. You see how this can go on and on. Lets just say that FSD will still be baby steps for years, even with what we see happening today. We are seeing positive moves, but even if we were to have something we call FSD roll out in the next few years, most people aren't going to be willing to just ride along with it every day.


I think it will be less consistent than you suggest but the sentiment that this will not improve your driving experience is true. This is about helping out Tesla and experiencing the sausage being made. I think people will be more willing to put up with getting somewhere slower and more cautiously when they don't have to pay attention. It will be interesting to see how many people bail on the Beta after getting it. But I'm willing to sacrifice a little to watch it learn. I just hope it does as well as it currently does on straight roads so I can use it with passengers on trips for the highway/freeway.


----------



## Klaus-rf

Madmolecule said:


> The ranking should be the top 70 percentile of Tesla drivers in similar road conditions.


The "Safe Driver" score has nothing to do with any other Tesla drivers - it is only you against machine, NOT driv er against driver.

Will each individual score be ranked into percentiles amongst all Safety Test score drivers? Who knows (well, of course, The Shadow knows. That's a given.)


----------



## iChris93

Okay, folks, per request I’ve broken out the top 10%. Please vote again as I had to reset the poll.


----------



## iChris93

Mr. Spacely said:


> As we have been "Driving Miss Daisy" for a number of days now, we see that scores are almost always in the 90s. I know this has already been suggested, but please change the poll to reflect more like this:
> 
> 100%
> 98-99%
> 95-97%
> 90-94%
> 80-89%
> less than 80%
> 
> @iChris93


Did you tag me in an edit? I didn't get notification of the tag.


----------



## JWardell

I'm pretty confident this will just end up being a classic Tesla social experiment, and beta access will actually roll out at random. I bet you'll figure it out in about two weeks.

PS: a two-button reset before you park will erase the current drive from being recorded against your score.


----------



## Tombolian

JWardell said:


> I'm pretty confident this will just end up being a classic Tesla social experiment, and beta access will actually roll out at random. I bet you'll figure it out in about two weeks.


I'm putting my money on one of two things... either (1) This is all smoke and mirrors and the true criteria are not being let known, or (2) The safety score really will be used because people willing to play the game are exactly what Tesla needs for the next round of trainers.
This seems similar to Pascal's wager in a way. As for me and my car, we will serve the Elon!


----------



## M3OC Rules

JWardell said:


> I'm pretty confident this will just end up being a classic Tesla social experiment, and beta access will actually roll out at random. I bet you'll figure it out in about two weeks.
> 
> PS: a two-button reset before you park will erase the current drive from being recorded against your score.


I see. Trying to get everyone to not worry about their score because this is a competition. Nice try!


----------



## JasonF

M3OC Rules said:


> I see. Trying to get everyone to not worry about their score because this is a competition. Nice try!


It's none of those things - it's an effort to collect real-world driving data that's as similar to what FSD does as possible. If you fit the profile as driving similar enough to FSD, and you're providing good data, you'll be selected for the beta. The rating is there purely because the easiest way to collect that data without completely new and unproven code was to use...proven code, that's already been tested for use with Tesla Insurance.


----------



## M3OC Rules

JasonF said:


> It's none of those things - it's an effort to collect real-world driving data that's as similar to what FSD does as possible. If you fit the profile as driving similar enough to FSD, and you're providing good data, you'll be selected for the beta. The rating is there purely because the easiest way to collect that data without completely new and unproven code was to use...proven code, that's already been tested for use with Tesla Insurance.


So you think people are driving like they normally would? If you want it sooner (maybe at all) you're going to have to play the game. Tested with proven beta code. It appears there are some clear flaws. It encourages running stop lights and using Autopilot in situations where it will result in hard braking like when there is stopped traffic ahead. It also encourages causing road rage.

This is also really unfair to Android users. They can't see their scores unless they sideload the app.


----------



## JasonF

M3OC Rules said:


> So you think people are driving like they normally would? If you want it sooner (maybe at all) you're going to have to play the game. Tested with proven beta code. It appears there are some clear flaws. It encourages running stop lights and using Autopilot in situations where it will result in hard braking like when there is stopped traffic ahead. It also encourages causing road rage.


What I'm saying is don't worry about the score so much, it's just a data point. I believe the people who will be given access to FSD beta first are the ones providing the most useful real-world data to contribute to further FSD development. By that I mean making serene trips to the grocery store on 2-lane roads without much traffic is probably not going to be considered first. The people who drive on busy streets with complicated routing, and have a lot of construction on the route, will probably be first.


----------



## iChris93

JasonF said:


> By that I mean making serene trips to the grocery store on 2-lane roads without much traffic is probably not going to be considered first. The people who drive on busy streets with complicated routing, and have a lot of construction on the route, will probably be first.


I could argue the opposite. If safety is the priority, they might start with the "easier" stuff and then expand as they feel more confident.


----------



## MJJ

Had two “sudden” events while on AP today and neither counted against me.


----------



## M3OC Rules

JasonF said:


> What I'm saying is don't worry about the score so much, it's just a data point. I believe the people who will be given access to FSD beta first are the ones providing the most useful real-world data to contribute to further FSD development. By that I mean making serene trips to the grocery store on 2-lane roads without much traffic is probably not going to be considered first. The people who drive on busy streets with complicated routing, and have a lot of construction on the route, will probably be first.


I agree Tesla can do whatever they want and they might have that data (Note they have to have the data AND a way to report it). They could have other prioritizations on top of score like miles driven, number of trips, % on autopilot, etc, etc. But you're contradicting what Elon said. "Wow, lot of interest in FSD beta! Plan is to roll out version 10.2 midnight Friday, then on-ramp ~1000 owners/day, prioritized by safety rating. First few days probably 100/100, then 99, 98, etc."

If we say there are 200,000 people who requested it (very rough estimate source) and from the survey on this post, 14% of them score 100 that's 28,000 people. At ~1,000 per day that's 28 days. Then say 45% score a 99, that's 90 days on top of the 28 days or 118 days. We're into next year. That's a lot longer than Elon's tweet suggested but he didn't have the data at that time. We have no idea how long the beta will last or how many will get in. They may also be forced to shut it down earlier than they want. It's probably not this bad since this survey is biased to people watching their score closely and maybe the requests are much lower but I would recommend getting the best score you can since that's the only metric we know of.


----------



## iChris93

M3OC Rules said:


> It's probably not this bad since this survey is biased to people watching their score closely


We had a few 80s before I updated the poll. They haven't returned to vote again or improved their scores.


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## JasonF

M3OC Rules said:


> But you're contradicting what Elon said. "Wow, lot of interest in FSD beta! Plan is to roll out version 10.2 midnight Friday, then on-ramp ~1000 owners/day, prioritized by safety rating. First few days probably 100/100, then 99, 98, etc."


Aside from his tendency to troll on Twitter, he does tend to contradict his own Tesla engineers from time to time. Maybe that scoring is actually how they'll do it, but from a software perspective (engineering) it doesn't make much sense. You want the difficult cases first to break through walls.


----------



## JBridge

What is up with no safety score for android users?


----------



## Klaus-rf

JBridge said:


> What is up with no safety score for android users?


You need to update your app to 4.1.0-663 or later. It is yet not available ion most versions of the Play Store while it has been released by Tesla. You can d/load the file from Tesla onto your phone then use "APKMirror Installer" to install it.

NOTE: APKMirror Installer is total adware so be VERY careful to ONLY install the updated Tesla app and then uninstall APKMirror Installer..


----------



## littlD

JBridge said:


> What is up with no safety score for android users?


I used APK Mirror to load it days ago after I better understood how they were providing a safer side load than other side loading methods which normally offer you a paid app for free that is infected.

You'll need to install APK Mirror and then go to their website to find 4.1.1 of the Tesla App. Download it and then install using APK Mirror.


----------



## SalisburySam

I’ve seen more Teslas of all flavors now cruising local Interstates at the speed limit. Never have seen this behavior before. Things like Camry’s and Civic’s passing performance models. Teslas in the right-most slow lane (US). Drivers actually using turn signals. Cats living with dogs. A definite glitch in the matrix. Wonder what’s up?


----------



## Long Ranger

SalisburySam said:


> I've seen more Teslas of all flavors now cruising local Interstates at the speed limit. Never have seen this behavior before. Things like Camry's and Civic's passing performance models. Teslas in the right-most slow lane (US). Drivers actually using turn signals. Cats living with dogs. A definite glitch in the matrix. Wonder what's up?


"Elon, these Tesla drivers are out of control."
"Oh, they'd drive like grandma if I asked them to."
"Wanna bet?"
"You're on, just give me two weeks and a few tweets."


----------



## JasonF

SalisburySam said:


> I've seen more Teslas of all flavors now cruising local Interstates at the speed limit. Never have seen this behavior before. Things like Camry's and Civic's passing performance models. Teslas in the right-most slow lane (US). Drivers actually using turn signals. Cats living with dogs. A definite glitch in the matrix. Wonder what's up?


Depending on what area you're in, that could also be because various highway patrols have been cracking down hard on Teslas.


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## FRC

JasonF said:


> Depending on what area you're in, that could also be because various highway patrols have been cracking down hard on Teslas.


I could find no information about such a crackdown. Cite?


----------



## JasonF

FRC said:


> I could find no information about such a crackdown. Cite?


A Florida Highway Patrol motorcycle cop told me over a year ago that Teslas are always speeding (ironically he stopped me for windshield tint) and the patrol keeps an eye out for them.

And that wasn't my first encounter. Another time I accelerated quickly from a light _up to the speed limit_, but an FHP cop caught up to me quickly and stayed right behind me for 3 blocks just waiting for me to cross that speed limit line - I felt like I was in an exotic supercar or something. A third time, I had to get on I-4 from a _very_ short on-ramp, and a truck was beside me, so I accelerated quickly to get ahead of the truck, gave the truck at least 3 car lengths of room, and planted myself ahead of it. An FHP cop flew down the ramp right up to my bumper (ironically cutting off the truck in the rain). I moved over one lane, and he moved with me. I absolutely would have been pulled over if not for Mother Nature dumping buckets on top of both of us at just that moment. He decided to change to the left lane and drive away.

I've also seen videos from other highway patrol cops in other states that implied that Teslas always have some kind of violation and are always worth stopping.

I guess it goes with the impression a lot of people have (including cops, I guess?) that we're driving around $100K+ cars and can afford a few tickets. Except we don't, and we can't, so then you end up with Model 3's sticking close to the speed limit.


----------



## Bigriver

JBridge said:


> What is up with no safety score for android users?


I just noticed that Teslafi is showing the safety score. No details, but just the overall score. So if you are Android user who can't see it, try a free trial of Teslafi.


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## littlD

Bigriver said:


> I just noticed that Teslafi is showing the safety score. No details, but just the overall score. So if you are Android user who can't see it, try a free trial of Teslafi.
> View attachment 40056


They also have a leaderboard


----------



## LastGas

FRC said:


> After 3 days and a cumulative score of 98, I'm already tired of this graded driving. I've seen reports that this period will last one week to one month. Anybody know any details? What/who decides how long this continues?


It lasts a week. I got my notification this morning that my test period had finished. At least that's how I read it.


----------



## littlD

LastGas said:


> It lasts a week. I got my notification this morning that my test period had finished. At least that's how I read it.
> View attachment 40057


Did you touch the button again for this to display? This is what you see when you do that...


----------



## Bigriver

littlD said:


> They also have a leaderboard


Thanks for pointing out Teslafi's leaderboard. Unfortunately users have to opt in for their data to be shown, with the default set to opt out. So currently only about 50 scores shown, lowest is 98. 🤨

I'm on a 5000 mile trip over the next 2 weeks so plan to shimmy right to the top! Meanwhile my other Tesla sitting at home will remain firmly planted with the fewest miles.


----------



## Madmolecule

87 - I have opted in but I think it is only a leader board, so you won't see my score. With city driving and being late on a road trip, I don't think I will ever get above 90. On the app I don't know how to see total miles under test, without totaling the daily. It is also hard to remember to reboot after poor driving, another failed test.


----------



## shareef777

Well, JUST over one week I got my first ding 😭

Hard braking (damn you autopilot) is now at .2%.

Score is still 100% 🤣


----------



## NR4P

Don't for a minute think AP keeps your score clean. I was on AP driving 70 MPH on the highway. Before and after the highway, including exit and entrance ramps, not once exceeded 45 MPH. It was after 10pm so not many cars on regular roads that late. But got dinged for Unsafe Following. While locked in at 70 MPH on highway, AP brought me real close to a tractor trailer, I would say 3-4 car lengths behind it. Even I got nervous. Knowing not to disengage AP or I would be dinged, I used the scroll wheel to back off to 60 MPH to let the tractor trailer get far away, while on AP.

Checked score 5 mins after parking, got dinged for Unsafe Following. AP avoiding that is BS. It was really close and AP messed up being that close.


----------



## FRC

NR4P said:


> Don't for a minute think AP keeps your score clean. I was on AP driving 70 MPH on the highway. Before and after the highway, including exit and entrance ramps, not once exceeded 45 MPH. It was after 10pm so not many cars on regular roads that late. But got dinged for, Unsafe Following. While locked in at 70 MPH on highway, AP brought me real close to a tractor trailer, I would say 3-4 car lengths behind it. Even I got nervous. Knowing not to disengage AP or I would be dinged, I used the scroll wheel to back off to 60 MPH to let the tractor trailer get far away, while on AP.
> 
> Checked score 5 mins after parking, got dinged for Unsafe Following. AP avoiding that is BS. It was really close and AP messed up being that close.


I just finished 189 miles of interstate TACC driving in heavy traffic and sporadic heavy rain. Travelling at 75 mph+. No dings at all. Once had the emergency "take control immediately" red blaring warning during a downpour, but no ding.

Just wondering, I dialed my normal 1 follow distance to a 5 during this trial period. Could it be that Tesla is using a 3 or 4 follow distance for their calculations, and if your set at 1 or 2 you get dinged even while on AP? (sort of akin to the FCW sensitivity setting?)


----------



## littlD

Not doubting others having issues, yet...

Set at 4 here, no dings in 256 miles and definitely have had AP hit the brakes hard numerous times, as well as it taking corners pretty quickly (while slowing down) and also "take control immediately"

Another thing I do is modulate speed using the speed limit adjustment. You have to anticipate sometimes, but may be unnecessary


----------



## FRC

My guess is that many surprise hard-braking dings result from disengaging AP and not modulating slow down with the accelerator. I firmly believe that decel from hard regen is scored negatively as if you were hard braking.


----------



## M3OC Rules

FRC said:


> My guess is that many surprise hard-braking dings result from disengaging AP and not modulating slow down with the accelerator. I firmly believe that decel from hard regen is scored negatively as if you were hard braking.


Yes and that one is hard to retrain yourself to stop doing. Is it also true that if you have unsafe following or hard-braking while on AP it shows up in the individual scores for those but doesn't affect the final safety score?


----------



## Mike Sylvestre

shareef777 said:


> Well, JUST over one week I got my first ding 😭
> 
> Hard braking (damn you autopilot) is now at .2%.
> 
> Score is still 100% 🤣


Had a forward collision warning today I saved a clip for. I was on AP going through a lighted intersection. Hit the stalk to continue through green light. There was a car on opposite side and the warnings went off and deactivated AP. Turn it back on and continued. That leg of my driving today scored a 78. Definite bugs in the process.


----------



## aadams1278

littlD said:


> Not doubting others having issues, yet...
> 
> Set at 4 here, no dings in 256 miles and definitely have had AP hit the brakes hard numerous times, as well as it taking corners pretty quickly (while slowing down) and also "take control immediately"
> 
> Another thing I do is modulate speed using the speed limit adjustment. You have to anticipate sometimes, but may be unnecessary


Sounds like the cutoff is between 3 and 4 then. I normally use a follow distance of 3 on AP and my first drive with safety score (All AP) I got the maximum penalty for unsafe following distance (60%). I increased it to 6 to make sure I didn't lose any more points but wondered what the trigger was. Looks like 4 would be safe.

The thing I want to know is how they handle rounding. My score the first day was 92 from some hard braking my wife did and the unsafe following distance. Since then all days have been 100. My score is up to 99 now but I am wondering if it's possible to achieve 100 at this point or not.

An interesting point about the overall score is the hard braking has decreased noticeably from the 100 score days, but the unsafe following distance has stayed in the red at 60%. I wonder if this means it is a "permanent" ding or if I just don't have enough 100 days to decrease it yet.


----------



## Bigriver

I’m over 1100 miles into this game. Probably about 1000 of those miles on autopilot. 

Had about 2 dozen forward collision warnings today as I’m on very roller coaster hills and it goes off at the top of many of those hills. I’m on AP. Not a single FCW ding on my safety score.

Have had AP take curves way too fast, with me scrolling down the speed to keep us safe. No dings.

Had a number of instances of people passing me then pulling right in front of me that would have created an unsafe follow ding. But on AP, and no ding on the safety score.

From my experience, I continue to believe that Tesla is not counting incidents while on AP.

The only recent dings that I have had were aggressive braking when AP did not respond to trucks darting across the 4 lane highway in front of me. Usually it over-reacts to those, but strangely it didn’t respond at all on its own. I intervened. Ding ding.


----------



## NR4P

FRC said:


> I just finished 189 miles of interstate TACC driving in heavy traffic and sporadic heavy rain. Travelling at 75 mph+. No dings at all. Once had the emergency "take control immediately" red blaring warning during a downpour, but no ding.
> 
> Just wondering, I dialed my normal 1 follow distance to a 5 during this trial period. Could it be that Tesla is using a 3 or 4 follow distance for their calculations, and if your set at 1 or 2 you get dinged even while on AP? (sort of akin to the FCW sensitivity setting?)


But you used TACC, not AP. Not sure what the forgiveness is with TACC. Maybe 5 is better? I see others having similar issues.

Bottom line is that a Beta tool is being used to judge us for another Beta process. Beta on top of beta.


----------



## aadams1278

NR4P said:


> Bottom line is that a Beta tool is being used to judge us for another Beta process. Beta on top of beta.


So is that beta² or beta/beta?


----------



## FRC

aadams1278 said:


> So is that beta² or beta/beta?


BetaMax?


----------



## skygraff

Sure am glad it’s not using speed limit deviation because the GPS/camera based limit displays have been much more wrong than on previous loads.

Don’t hear much about that from the FSD beta reviews but it sure has made TACC/AP unreliable on a lot of the roads I drive (highway, surface, divided express/frontage roads) and that’s resulted in a few hard braking events on the score system (I think TACC but can’t rule out AP).


----------



## Derik

Mine went down a point due to forward collision warning because a car wanted to turn left across a double yellow and I moved to the right to avoid him. I'm guessing it was thinking the safer thing to do was slam on the brakes.. oh wait then my hard braking would have been true as well. Oh well. Funny this has turned into a game.


----------



## Klaus-rf

Derik said:


> Mine went down a point due to forward collision warning because a car wanted to turn left across a double yellow and I moved to the right to avoid him. I'm guessing it was thinking the safer thing to do was slam on the brakes.. oh wait then my hard braking would have been true as well. Oh well. Funny this has turned into a game.


Methinks it started as a game.


----------



## Long Ranger

aadams1278 said:


> Sounds like the cutoff is between 3 and 4 then. I normally use a follow distance of 3 on AP and my first drive with safety score (All AP) I got the maximum penalty for unsafe following distance (60%). I increased it to 6 to make sure I didn't lose any more points but wondered what the trigger was. Looks like 4 would be safe.


If you care about your Unsafe Following score, try this: On your next AP drive, try driving manually at over 50mph for at least 5 minutes with an intentional following gap of 2-3 seconds behind the car in front. Not less than a 1 second gap, and not more than 3 second gap. Then drive as far as you want on AP at whatever following distance you prefer. I'll bet that you'll have a low Unsafe Following score for that trip. I've done that with an AP following setting of 3 and had no problems, 1.0% Unsafe Following score.



aadams1278 said:


> The thing I want to know is how they handle rounding. My score the first day was 92 from some hard braking my wife did and the unsafe following distance. Since then all days have been 100. My score is up to 99 now but I am wondering if it's possible to achieve 100 at this point or not.


Yes, you can reach 100. They'll round up. It's calculated as a mileage weighted average of each day's score and mileage. Look at your Daily Details. How many miles on the day with a 92? You'll need to drive 15x that number of miles at a score of 100 to get your mileage weighted average up to 99.5 (92x + 100(15x)) / 16x = 99.5.



aadams1278 said:


> An interesting point about the overall score is the hard braking has decreased noticeably from the 100 score days, but the unsafe following distance has stayed in the red at 60%. I wonder if this means it is a "permanent" ding or if I just don't have enough 100 days to decrease it yet.


Those cumulative scoring factors for each category on the main scoring page don't actually matter in determining your overall score. Overall score is determined by the mileage weighted daily scores as mentioned above, so your cumulative 60% Unsafe Following score really doesn't matter. The reason your Unsafe Following has stayed high is probably that you haven't done much since then that qualifies as following, either safe or unsafe, so your cumulative stat is still based upon that first drive. Here's my earlier explanation of how a very tiny portion of your drive can result in a high Unsafe Following score:


Long Ranger said:


> I think Unsafe Following is the most misunderstood statistic. People see a big number and assume the car thinks they spent a lot of time following to close. The stat can actually apply to only a very tiny portion of your trip.
> 
> Here's a hypothetical scenario:
> You take a 1 hour trip.
> 
> 30 minutes below 50mph. Doesn't count.
> 25 minutes on Autopilot. Doesn't count.
> 4 minutes manual driving, above 50mph, >3 second following. Doesn't count.
> 45 seconds manual driving, above 50mph, 1-3 second following. Counts as safe following.
> 15 seconds manual driving, above 50mph, <1 second following. Counts as unsafe following.
> In the above scenario, you'd have a 25% Unsafe Following score for your 1 hour drive, all due to that 15 seconds of unsafe following.


----------



## aadams1278

Long Ranger said:


> Yes, you can reach 100. They'll round up. It's calculated as a mileage weighted average of each day's score and mileage. Look at your Daily Details. How many miles on the day with a 92? You'll need to drive 15x that number of miles at a score of 100 to get your mileage weighted average up to 99.5 (92x + 100(15x)) / 16x = 99.5.


Thanks for that math. I wasn't exactly sure how "mileage weighted" math was done. That's good news, but also means I'll have to drive 375 miles in the next 3 days (assuming the cutoff is Friday night). Considering I've driven less than 100 miles for all of the days so far, it's unlikely I'll drive greater than that for all 3 of the last days.

I guess 99 is respectable enough. I have to expect that there are a massive number of people opting in for this and just by sheer numbers there would be a few thousand people with 100 scores, so it could take numerous days to get down to even people with a 99 (if they add 1,000 per day per Elon's tweet.)


----------



## garsh

My Android app finally updated, so I got to see my score for the first time.
This isn't bad for not even trying, right?


----------



## JasonF

garsh said:


> My Android app finally updated, so I got to see my score for the first time.
> This isn't bad for not even trying, right?


What happened to your zero? You're failing to get there so far!


----------



## FRC

JasonF said:


> What happened to your zero? You're failing to get there so far!


He's right @garsh, your score is disappointingly high.


----------



## MJJ

What I want to know is, why did my Safety Score section disappear from my app this evening?


----------



## FRC

MJJ said:


> What I want to know is, why did my Safety Score section disappear from my app this evening?


Mine is still there. Maybe reboot your phone??


----------



## Bigriver

There are my 2 cars at the most and least miles of the Teslafi leaderboard at 100%. 😁


----------



## MJJ

FRC said:


> Mine is still there. Maybe reboot your phone??


Yep that did it. Thank you.


----------



## MJJ

I’m not done. Why am I not on the teslafi leaderboard? I’m at 99% and about 600 mi.

Oh wait, I see you have to opt in. Never mind.

”Pixie”


----------



## GDN

Very nice that the scores are in the API and cool that Teslafi is picking them up. My score keeps creeping up - I'm at 97%, but only 154 miles. Only time will tell when and how long they should start to roll it out. Seems @Bigriver should be one of the first however !!


----------



## dburkland

Bigriver said:


> I'm over 1100 miles into this game. Probably about 1000 of those miles on autopilot.
> 
> Had about 2 dozen forward collision warnings today as I'm on very roller coaster hills and it goes off at the top of many of those hills. I'm on AP. Not a single FCW ding on my safety score.
> 
> Have had AP take curves way too fast, with me scrolling down the speed to keep us safe. No dings.
> 
> Had a number of instances of people passing me then pulling right in front of me that would have created an unsafe follow ding. But on AP, and no ding on the safety score.
> 
> From my experience, I continue to believe that Tesla is not counting incidents while on AP.
> 
> The only recent dings that I have had were aggressive braking when AP did not respond to trucks darting across the 4 lane highway in front of me. Usually it over-reacts to those, but strangely it didn't respond at all on its own. I intervened. Ding ding.


Early on I used nothing but AP especially on highway with a following distance of 7 and I yet I got slammed for unsafe following. I have driven probably 500+ miles so far manually and have reduced my overall unsafe following score from 20% to 1.4%. AutoPilot helps in the city but on the freeway I have found using it to be a pain especially when you anticipate somebody cutting in front of you in moderately congested traffic going over 50mph.


----------



## Madmolecule

Mine has dropped to 86.
I've given up trying to please the gigagods and I'm now* driving my vehicle like I own it* and the software. I feel I've done enough waiting three years and offering to babysit beta software. Elon can shove his beta software up his tailpipe


----------



## littlD

NR4P said:


> But you used TACC, not AP. Not sure what the forgiveness is with TACC. Maybe 5 is better? I see others having similar issues.
> 
> Bottom line is that a Beta tool is being used to judge us for another Beta process. Beta on top of beta.


This feels snarky of me, I apologize ahead of it...

If it didn't say beta, would it suddenly be production quality (99.9999%)?

I know it goes against the conventional idea that everything should be completely tested for public use, but the truth often nothing is completely tested, including every possible corner case.

Many products don't say Beta and should. I think Tesla puts it on everything regardless if it should be considered Beta or not. Like Trip Planner... finally went production. Is it any better... nope


----------



## littlD

Madmolecule said:


> Mine has dropped to 86.
> I've given up trying to please the gigagods and I'm now* driving my vehicle like I own it* and the software. I feel I've done enough waiting three years and offering to babysit beta software. Elon can shove his beta software up his tailpipe


And that's what the process is doing, finding people who want to be testers.

Totally your call not to be one and I support you in that decision. It's not wrong to say I don't want to babysit beta software. Wait for 99.9999% reliability and regulatory approval. Then you'll get the software you paid for and no babysitting.

Me and a few of my friends have been waiting years for the opportunity to be a part of this and are working hard to keep or achieve 100. I hope to have support from you and others as we do.

Because... proving we can be a tester then leads to being a tester every trip. I'm not sure everyone realizes that.


----------



## littlD

GDN said:


> Very nice that the scores are in the API and cool that Teslafi is picking them up. My score keeps creeping up - I'm at 97%, but only 154 miles. Only time will tell when and how long they should start to roll it out. Seems @Bigriver should be one of the first however !!


That's IF #miles is the tiebreaker. No one knows at this point, but seems to make sense.

And of course, "littlD_Middy" makes the scoreboard FTW


----------



## shareef777

littlD said:


> Many products don't say Beta and should. I think Tesla puts it on everything regardless if it should be considered Beta or not. Like Trip Planner... finally went production. Is it any better... nope


You can thank Google for that. Gmail was labeled as beta for YEARS while it was in use by the public over a decade ago.


----------



## Hollywood7

Klaus-rf said:


> You need to update your app to 4.1.0-663 or later. It is yet not available ion most versions of the Play Store while it has been released by Tesla. You can d/load the file from Tesla onto your phone then use "APKMirror Installer" to install it.
> 
> NOTE: APKMirror Installer is total adware so be VERY careful to ONLY install the updated Tesla app and then uninstall APKMirror Installer..


Android is owned by Google - a data collection company. If you're using Android, I don't think your're that concerned about privacy / safety.


----------



## Klaus-rf

Madmolecule said:


> Mine has dropped to 86.
> I've given up trying to please the gigagods and I'm now* driving my vehicle like I own it* and the software. I feel I've done enough waiting three years and offering to babysit beta software. Elon can shove his beta software up his tailpipe


Push the famous button again, and uncheck all the settings then disagree. Close the screens, reboot the car then let it sleep.

Then remove the Tesla app from your phone. Re-install it and login in. Magically ALL of your past Safe Driver Game scores will disappear. Now you can start all over again with a clean slate.


----------



## Klaus-rf

littlD said:


> Wait for 99.9999% reliability and regulatory approval. Then you'll get the software you paid for and no babysitting.


I hope you're not suggesting that ANY software is even capable of reaching six nines??? One nine, OK. Two nines? Not likely in my lifetime. I've never seen any software capable of doing that. Keep in mind that M$'s Notepad.exe has had more than 90 CRITICAL security patches since it's inception and it's merely a text editor.

Current software products are built to be "Good Enough" and no better. No one is working on perfection. Future patches and updates are part of the initial design.


----------



## Klaus-rf

Hollywood7 said:


> Android is owned by Google - a data collection company. If you're using Android, I don't think your're that concerned about privacy / safety.


Privacy and being inundated with ads from undesired applications are two different issues.


----------



## M3OC Rules

Klaus-rf said:


> I hope you're not suggesting that ANY software is even capable of reaching six nines??? One nine, OK. Two nines? Not likely in my lifetime. I've never seen any software capable of doing that. Keep in mind that M$'s Notepad.exe has had more than 90 CRITICAL security patches since it's inception and it's merely a text editor.
> 
> Current software products are built to be "Good Enough" and no better. No one is working on perfection. Future patches and updates are part of the initial design.


Well then we're screwed...

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1148078989866520576


----------



## Klaus-rf

M3OC Rules said:


> Well then we're screwed...


Indeed we are.


----------



## Bigriver

dburkland said:


> Early on I used nothing but AP especially on highway with a following distance of 7 and I yet I got slammed for unsafe following. I have driven probably 500+ miles so far manually and have reduced my overall unsafe following score from 20% to 1.4%. AutoPilot helps in the city but on the freeway I have found using it to be a pain especially when you anticipate somebody cutting in front of you in moderately congested traffic going over 50mph.


I'm over 1500 miles, almost all on AP. I usually use AP a lot, but I've gone from maybe 90% use to 99% use. I've had TONS of events on AP (hard braking, Forward collision warnings and following distance) and none of them show up as a ding. As Tesla does not give us details on where/when the dings occur against our safety score, I don't think any of us know for certainty where our dings occurred. But I do know what didn't count when I have a 100 drive.

I have an overall 100 score but my hand calculation is that it is 99.513, based on mileage weighting of each day's score. I've had 8 days with 100 and 3 days with less than 100.


----------



## skygraff

Yeah, testing AP & TACC to see if it’ll do better with hard braking and it is clear that the system is far worse. It drives like my parents used to: accelerating to a stop.

I’ve also come to the conclusion that we need alternate routes (and waypoints) in the nav system before FSD goes live (or even mass beta) because it doesn’t pick the best route let alone learn even when manually driving. Had a police event blocking its route but every time I turned to a detour, it kept trying to get me back to the blockade. Obviously, that’s an outlier but similar things happen with long term construction projects and traffic. Basically, plan extra time when using FSD.


----------



## M3OC Rules

skygraff said:


> Yeah, testing AP & TACC to see if it'll do better with hard braking and it is clear that the system is far worse. It drives like my parents used to: accelerating to a stop.
> 
> I've also come to the conclusion that we need alternate routes (and waypoints) in the nav system before FSD goes live (or even mass beta) because it doesn't pick the best route let alone learn even when manually driving. Had a police event blocking its route but every time I turned to a detour, it kept trying to get me back to the blockade. Obviously, that's an outlier but similar things happen with long term construction projects and traffic. Basically, plan extra time when using FSD.


Ya. I've had trouble with map data not knowing closed roads too. Hopefully someday the cars can learn to recognize closed roads and send that data back to the mothership to let everyone else know.


----------



## Long Ranger

Bigriver said:


> I have an overall 100 score but my hand calculation is that it is 99.513, based on mileage weighting of each day's score. I've had 8 days with 100 and 3 days with less than 100.


People have talked about mileage as a potential tiebreaker, but I think another possibility is that the unrounded overall score could be used. I bet that most of us with a 100 score actually fall between 99.5 and 100. I calculate mine at 99.81.


----------



## littlD

Long Ranger said:


> People have talked about mileage as a potential tiebreaker, but I think another possibility is that the unrounded overall score could be used. I bet that most of us with a 100 score actually fall between 99.5 and 100. I calculate mine at 99.81.


I sure hope you are right, I have absolutely NO dings in almost 300 miles.


----------



## aadams1278

skygraff said:


> I've also come to the conclusion that we need alternate routes (and waypoints) in the nav system before FSD goes live (or even mass beta) because it doesn't pick the best route let alone learn even when manually driving. Had a police event blocking its route but every time I turned to a detour, it kept trying to get me back to the blockade. Obviously, that's an outlier but similar things happen with long term construction projects and traffic. Basically, plan extra time when using FSD.


An interesting and somewhat ironic point to keep in mind is we are using the "old" software to generate our scores to enable us to use the "new" software (FSD). As far as I can tell, the current generation Autopilot hasn't been significantly changed or improved since the FSD push started to take center stage. So with the exception of the few thousand who have been in the FSD early access beta so far, none of us really know what Tesla's self driving software suite is capable of. So all of our complaints are likely/hopefully old news relative to the latest FSD build...we just don't know it yet.

If you've been keeping up with the presentations that Tesla has put on, and announcements from Elon, it would appear that the FSD build is *significantly* different from what we have now. Video+time versus static images, vision only vs radar which supposedly is the reason for phantom braking, a significantly improved logic for lane changes, significantly improved logic for smart summon, etc.

IMO, it makes sense for them to go all hands on deck for the newest version and let the old one just sit relatively unchanged until FSD is done, rather than giving us incremental updates along the way. Overall, what I'm saying is we really don't know what parts have and haven't had huge improvements over what we have now.


----------



## Klaus-rf

aadams1278 said:


> If you've been keeping up with the presentations that Tesla has put on, and announcements from Elon, it would appear that the FSD build is *significantly* different from what we have now. Video+time versus static images, vision only vs radar which supposedly is the reason for phantom braking, a significantly improved logic for lane changes, significantly improved logic for smart summon, etc..


I have an easily repeatable case of "phantom braking" where the car is deathly afraid of a shadow ( from a high-overhead street light ). And my engineering background tells me that radar does not see shadows.


----------



## aadams1278

Klaus-rf said:


> I have an easily repeatable case of "phantom braking" where the car is deathly afraid of a shadow ( from a high-overhead street light ). And my engineering background tells me that radar does not see shadows.


If it coincides with the street light, according to one presentation I saw, the radar probably sees the street light and all the camera has to do is "agree" with the radar return for a tiny bit of time (the shadow) and phantom braking occurs. The example given was an overpass, but the concept is the same. Impossible for me to know if that's what's happening, but it seems like it could be possible.


----------



## garsh

Hollywood7 said:


> Android is owned by Google - a data collection company. If you're using Android, I don't think your're that concerned about privacy / safety.


If you use a mobile phone at all, you're not that concerned about privacy/safety.

1. If you think Apple doesn't also collect information, you're being naive.
2. Every mobile service provider (Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile) is constantly tracking your location. And unlike Google & Apple, they sell that information to other companies.
3. Law enforcement periodically deploys "stingray" cells to intercept ALL mobile connections in a given area without notifying you.


----------



## Bigriver

airj1012 said:


> What are your overall ratings? I'm trying to move from 99% to 100%. Think I need to continue to average down hard braking (.2%) and aggressive turning (.6%)


I'm taking your post from the Queue thread and responding to it in the Score thread.

I think the info on the incidents in the first screen with the overall score is a bit of a red herring. To get a higher overall score, you just need to add as many miles as possible with as high of a score as possible. Every day is somewhat of a blank slate relative to what you need to do in the future. Of course if hard braking (for example) is someone's major issue, they need to try to understand how to keep that from happening to keep it from recurring. But the development of the overall score seems to be a pretty straightforward mathematical exercise.

Here is a screen shot of my spreadsheet that takes the daily scores and combines them for the overall score. The details of what caused my <100 on days 3, 5 and 10 become irrelevant to the calculation of my overall score.










I'm not necessarily saying that Tesla will only look at the total score, but rather I am just addressing how the daily scores combine into the total. If anyone wants to improve their score, I strongly recommend autopilot. Whether on open highway or congested traffic, I have racked up miles with no penalties. You just have to be ultra careful what you do when it is disengaged because one person cutting in front of you or anything but a gentle slowdown can disproportionately hit your score as it is weighted by the hundreds of miles you were on autopilot that day (e.g., my day 10).


----------



## skygraff

aadams1278 said:


> An interesting and somewhat ironic point to keep in mind is we are using the "old" software to generate our scores to enable us to use the "new" software (FSD). As far as I can tell, the current generation Autopilot hasn't been significantly changed or improved since the FSD push started to take center stage. So with the exception of the few thousand who have been in the FSD early access beta so far, none of us really know what Tesla's self driving software suite is capable of. So all of our complaints are likely/hopefully old news relative to the latest FSD build...we just don't know it yet.
> 
> If you've been keeping up with the presentations that Tesla has put on, and announcements from Elon, it would appear that the FSD build is *significantly* different from what we have now. Video+time versus static images, vision only vs radar which supposedly is the reason for phantom braking, a significantly improved logic for lane changes, significantly improved logic for smart summon, etc.
> 
> IMO, it makes sense for them to go all hands on deck for the newest version and let the old one just sit relatively unchanged until FSD is done, rather than giving us incremental updates along the way. Overall, what I'm saying is we really don't know what parts have and haven't had huge improvements over what we have now.


Excellent point!

That said, as I understand it, highway AP (or navigate on AP) is still the same build in FSD beta loads as the rest of us have so we'll have to see how many of the bad behaviors carry over.


----------



## aadams1278

skygraff said:


> Excellent point!
> 
> That said, as I understand it, highway AP (or navigate on AP) is still the same build in FSD beta loads as the rest of us have so we'll have to see how many of the bad behaviors carry over.


I wish I had paid a bit closer attention now, but I remember Elon saying at one point months ago that the highway stack was the same as legacy AP and the FSD stack was only being used on city streets. But I'm pretty sure he said as of some software version (don't remember which), they were or were hoping to include highway driving and make it a single software stack using the FSD logic.

Now I wish I knew that more definitively. Does anyone else remember? Although it might be relatively easy to tell the difference once we actually get it.


----------



## dburkland

They were originally planning to merge city & highway AP to use the new FSD-based stack with FSD 10.1 however that is now slated for 10.2.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1436674339831750660


----------



## airj1012

Bigriver said:


> I'm taking your post from the Queue thread and responding to it in the Score thread.
> 
> I think the info on the incidents in the first screen with the overall score is a bit of a red herring. To get a higher overall score, you just need to add as many miles as possible with as high of a score as possible. Every day is somewhat of a blank slate relative to what you need to do in the future. Of course if hard braking (for example) is someone's major issue, they need to try to understand how to keep that from happening to keep it from recurring. But the development of the overall score seems to be a pretty straightforward mathematical exercise.
> 
> Here is a screen shot of my spreadsheet that takes the daily scores and combines them for the overall score. The details of what caused my <100 on days 3, 5 and 10 become irrelevant to the calculation of my overall score.
> 
> I'm not necessarily saying that Tesla will only look at the total score, but rather I am just addressing how the daily scores combine into the total. If anyone wants to improve their score, I strongly recommend autopilot. Whether on open highway or congested traffic, I have racked up miles with no penalties. You just have to be ultra careful what you do when it is disengaged because one person cutting in front of you or anything but a gentle slowdown can disproportionately hit your score as it is weighted by the hundreds of miles you were on autopilot that day (e.g., my day 10).


I understand that miles on AP can't generate a ding/negative impact. But are you saying that miles on AP still count as the denominator?

I've been able to increase my score a bit, but still at 99. Hopefully some additional miles will be able to average out the last of the dings.


----------



## airj1012

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446107701839343620


----------



## gary in NY

airj1012 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446107701839343620


Unfortunately I'm not one of them at the moment. Hovering at 98, although I have plenty of trips at 100. Low score was on day 4 (89) due to some late nav instructions which resulted in hard braking and fast turns.


----------



## Tombolian

Woot!!! I'm in! After having a score of 99 on day one and 98 on day 2, I've managed to get myself to 100. It IS possible!!!


----------



## Bigriver

airj1012 said:


> I understand that miles on AP can't generate a ding/negative impact. But are you saying that miles on AP still count as the denominator?


Dings are all tabulated as percentages using the miles not on autopilot. Tesla's guidance is pretty clear on that, I think. The score, tho, gets applied to all miles, whether or not on autopilot. Here is a detailed look at calcs for my day 10. I lumped my multiple perfect score trip segments into trip 3, but separately show the 2 segments with dings.















https://www.tesla.com/support/safety-score


----------



## Tombolian

airj1012 said:


> I understand that miles on AP can't generate a ding/negative impact. But are you saying that miles on AP still count as the denominator?
> 
> I've been able to increase my score a bit, but still at 99. Hopefully some additional miles will be able to average out the last of the dings.


According to the simulator, with hard breaking = .2, aggressive turning = .4, and unsafe following at 1.0, I should have a score of 99, yet I managed to flip it to 100 yesterday with these numbers. It's rounding I'm sure. I don't think total miles come into play, I think it's just a percentage of all times spent added together. For braking, I assume it's tracking all time spent braking (based on a threshold that defines 'braking') and your score is just the percentage of time spent braking hard (defined as backward acceleration exceeding .3g). To bring my hard braking score down, I had to accelerate/brake repeatedly, within the thresholds. I would bet $10 that total miles doesn't come into play at all.


----------



## Madmolecule

98 what a loser. You are not qualified to have access to the product you purchased. It is almost like Elon has lost the battle of the 9s and it is delay time. The product does not have even close to the success needed to ship or submit for approval to any state of federal body. He can only hope the engineers achieve some miracles in coding while he dances. I agree this is even more complicated than live safety software, this is controlling a 5000 lb killing machine with crazy accelloration and only vision (no historical info on road conditions and previous Tesla performance on that road under similar traffic conditions, no radar, no Lidar, no moisture sensor, no microphone, no big data). due to the reaction time required and the current cpu they are hoping to tune a model with vision only. This is not possible.


----------



## airj1012

Mind sharing your 


Bigriver said:


> Dings are all tabulated as percentages using the miles not on autopilot. Tesla's guidance is pretty clear on that, I think. The score, tho, gets applied to all miles, whether or not on autopilot. Here is a detailed look at calcs for my day 10. I lumped my multiple perfect score trip segments into trip 3, but separately show the 2 segments with dings.
> View attachment 40082
> 
> View attachment 40083
> 
> https://www.tesla.com/support/safety-score


Mind sharing your spreadsheet? I feel like I'm just on the edge of 100. Had a 99, 98, and 98 to start off, but 100s since. Yesterday and today with some significant miles. Trying to get aggressive turning down from one of those 98s days.


----------



## Tombolian

airj1012 said:


> Mind sharing your
> 
> Mind sharing your spreadsheet? I feel like I'm just on the edge of 100. Had a 99, 98, and 98 to start off, but 100s since. Yesterday and today with some significant miles. Trying to get aggressive turning down from one of those 98s days.


Would you mind posting your overall score for all 5 categories? Attempting to reduce aggressive turning penalties could be difficult considering you have to turn within the threshold of .2 and .4 lateral g's for it to affect the score positively. I found reducing my hard braking to not only be easier, but more effective to lower my overall score based on the heavier weight it carries (pun not intended).


----------



## airj1012

Tombolian said:


> Would you mind posting your overall score for all 5 categories? Attempting to reduce aggressive turning penalties could be difficult considering you have to turn within the threshold of .2 and .4 lateral g's for it to affect the score positively. I found reducing my hard braking to not only be easier, but more effective to lower my overall score based on the heavier weight it carries (pun not intended).


Sure.

I've been able to lower my Aggressive Turning from 1.3% on 09/28 to .5% on 10/07. And hardbreaking from .4% to .1% in the same timeframe.


----------



## airj1012

Also can you use TACC to help out with Unsafe Following? Set it to 3 or 4 car lengthens? Will that allow you to earn a score since you're not using AP?


----------



## airj1012

Tombolian said:


> I don't think total miles come into play, I think it's just a percentage of all times spent added together.


"Your daily Safety Score is not impacted by the number of miles or hours you drive. *We combine your daily Safety Scores (up to 30 days) into a mileage-weighted average to calculate the aggregated Safety Score*, which is displayed on the main 'Safety Score' screen of the Tesla app."

That's where the miles come into play.


----------



## Long Ranger

airj1012 said:


> "Your daily Safety Score is not impacted by the number of miles or hours you drive. *We combine your daily Safety Scores (up to 30 days) into a mileage-weighted average to calculate the aggregated Safety Score*, which is displayed on the main 'Safety Score' screen of the Tesla app."
> 
> That's where the miles come into play.


Exactly. But that seems to be the part that you're missing when you're talking about getting Aggressive Turning down to get to 100. Those past individual metrics don't matter. All that matters now is how many miles you drive at 100. You say you had a 99 and two 98s. Go look at Daily Details and look at mileage for each of those days. If miles at 99 is X and miles at 98 is Y, you need X+3Y miles at 100 to get your average up to 99.5. That's it, nothing else to worry about on the individual scores. For each mile at a daily score below 100, it works out to you needing 2 x (100 - Score) - 1 miles at a score of 100 to offset it.


----------



## airj1012

Long Ranger said:


> Exactly. But that seems to be the part that you're missing when you're talking about getting Aggressive Turning down to get to 100. Those past individual metrics don't matter. All that matters now is how many miles you drive at 100. You say you had a 99 and two 98s. Go look at Daily Details and look at mileage for each of those days. If miles at 99 is X and miles at 98 is Y, you need X+3Y miles at 100 to get your average up to 99.5. That's it, nothing else to worry about on the individual scores. For each mile at a daily score below 100, it works out to you needing 2 x (100 - Score) - 1 miles at a score of 100 to offset it.


Thanks! Ya I'm just looking for the math to see how close I am to reversing the trend.

99 @ 8 miles / 98 @ 126 miles / 100 @ 355 miles

8 + 3(126) = 386 miles

So 31 miles at a score of 100 and I'm joining FSD beta tomorrow! Come on...!


----------



## airj1012

And based on what @Bigriver was saying above, I can use my 100 for today, and drive the remaining 31 miles on AP to push me over the edge. Correct? Going on AP will keep today's score at 100, but will add 31 miles to my weighted average for the day?

Math...


----------



## Mr. Spacely

Madmolecule said:


> 98 what a loser. You are not qualified to have access to the product you purchased. It is almost like Elon has lost the battle of the 9s and it is delay time. The product does not have even close to the success needed to ship or submit for approval to any state of federal body. He can only hope the engineers achieve some miracles in coding while he dances. I agree this is even more complicated than live safety software, this is controlling a 5000 lb killing machine with crazy accelloration and only vision (no historical info on road conditions and previous Tesla performance on that road under similar traffic conditions, no radar, no Lidar, no moisture sensor, no microphone, no big data). due to the reaction time required and the current cpu they are hoping to tune a model with vision only. This is not possible.


1. Yes, there is tons of historical info on road conditions. Tesla estimated Autopilot miles to-date: 3.3 billion miles. Estimated miles in all Tesla vehicles: *22.5 billion miles*.
2. The car does recognize moisture and even has auto wipers. 
3. If anyone drives with the radio on they effectively have no ability to hear (no microphones are needed to drive)
4. No big data-- Are you joking?
5. How do you know "this is not possible?" I think it is possible and is happening right now with a couple thousand Teslas.


----------



## Long Ranger

airj1012 said:


> And based on what @Bigriver was saying above, I can use my 100 for today, and drive the remaining 31 miles on AP to push me over the edge. Correct? Going on AP will keep today's score at 100, but will add 31 miles to my weighted average for the day?
> 
> Math...


Correct. Note that some on the forum here say they've been dinged while on AP, so no guarantees, but I suspect those folks are mistaken about which event caused the issue. Just note that if you do get dinged later today, then you may need to do a bunch of braking or turning at the end of the day to get that daily score back to 100.


----------



## shareef777

airj1012 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446107701839343620


What's considered perfect though? Out of a few dozen drives all are 100, one is 99, and another 89 (wife took my car while I was sleeping 😡). Dashboard still shows a 100 average though.


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## airj1012

Looks like an overall score of 100 is "perfect"


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446104772092772352


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## Tombolian

airj1012 said:


> "Your daily Safety Score is not impacted by the number of miles or hours you drive. *We combine your daily Safety Scores (up to 30 days) into a mileage-weighted average to calculate the aggregated Safety Score*, which is displayed on the main 'Safety Score' screen of the Tesla app."
> 
> That's where the miles come into play.


After seeing your scores, and not being able to replicate them in the simulator, I couldn't agree more that I'm still no closer to understanding the maths... That's ok, I'm no genius, just a lucky 100 percenter. Elon's latest tweet indicated everybody with 100 will get the beta on Saturday. Fingers crossed!


----------



## Madmolecule

Mr. Spacely said:


> 1. Yes, there is tons of historical info on road conditions. Tesla estimated Autopilot miles to-date: 3.3 billion miles. Estimated miles in all Tesla vehicles: *22.5 billion miles*.
> 2. The car does recognize moisture and even has auto wipers.
> 3. If anyone drives with the radio on they effectively have no ability to hear (no microphones are needed to drive)
> 4. No big data-- Are you joking?
> 5. How do you know "this is not possible?" I think it is possible and is happening right now with a couple thousand Teslas.


As far as historical data, yes Tesla has been collecting a massive amount of it, my point is that it is only being used to tune the model. Tesla does not have prevision only has vision. I have seen no indication that is expecting to see the street light before the camera sees the street light. I do think that data is used to see how the car reacts to tune the model. I do not think the car has learned my garage in three years.
The deep rain is pitiful and could definitely use a moisture sensor. My 2012 BMW works so much better
so you never listened to fire trucks, or emergency vehicles. Or trains. Due to the slowness of sound it might not be the best input, But they are not able to make it work or even close to make it work with Just vision. Sounds good also be used to prefect wind speed and here other vehicles PWS.
no I am not joking show me an example of how big data is used on your current auto pilot drive, other than to tune the model.
Are used to believe it was possible. Now I believe it is not possible until Tesla defines there product. They have not even said yet how the product will work if they get it to work. What a user interaction will be. What's the timeline estimate for supplying the product they charge me for three years ago. There will be more dancing at the stockholders meeting, but it is time for Tesla to be honest. I think it's the key to their success, not the silly path are on currently. In the machine learning systems I have developed in the past it was very difficult to use the pre-vision or the historical data for anything other than to tune the model. Then the model reacts to current conditions based on his program.

When Elon said solar was easy, and the hyper tunnel was just an air hockey table, as an controls engineer I have to start questioning his engineering ability and wondering if he is truly a hype man only.


----------



## airj1012

Tombolian said:


> After seeing your scores, and not being able to replicate them in the simulator, I couldn't agree more that I'm still no closer to understanding the maths... That's ok, I'm no genius, just a lucky 100 percenter. Elon's latest tweet indicated everybody with 100 will get the beta on Saturday. Fingers crossed!


Maybe the simulator is broken. I hadn't used it until your comment. Definitely different results!


----------



## shareef777

So my score is now 99. Got dinged for unsafe following even though there’s ABSOLUTELY zero chance of that. Closest I’ve been to anyone going over 20mph was at least 3 car lengths as I’ve been driving extra paranoid after my wife’s hard braking ding (which still had an overall score of 100). I truly believe this is another con by Tesla/Elon. Arbitrarily keep most people below 100 to blame users for not getting the software. What a sham.


----------



## Long Ranger

Tombolian said:


> After seeing your scores, and not being able to replicate them in the simulator, I couldn't agree more that I'm still no closer to understanding the maths... That's ok, I'm no genius, just a lucky 100 percenter. Elon's latest tweet indicated everybody with 100 will get the beta on Saturday. Fingers crossed!





airj1012 said:


> Maybe the simulator is broken. I hadn't used it until your comment. Definitely different results!


The simulator works pretty well. The key is that it only applies to a single day. Only plug in the numbers for a single day under Daily Details. Don't plug in those cumulative numbers below your cumulative score, those are meaningless! Once the day is done, your score for the day is set (and mutiplied by the number of miles driven that day).

You can plug in the values for any given day in your history, and the simulator should come out correct for that day (OK, technically, I've seen some hidden rounding issues, where my braking score shows as 0.2% but really it is between 0.2% and 0.25% and I need to brake a few more times to get it truly to 0.2% and my score for the day from 99 to 100). The simulator is useful to see what you need to do to get today's score up to 100. If you want to see what you need to do to get your cumulative score up to 100, don't use the simulator, use the 2(100-x)-1 daily score/miles formula that I posted in this thread earlier today.


----------



## Long Ranger

shareef777 said:


> So my score is now 99. Got dinged for unsafe following even though there's ABSOLUTELY zero chance of that. Closest I've been to anyone going over 20mph was at least 3 car lengths as I've been driving extra paranoid after my wife's hard braking ding (which still had an overall score of 100). I truly believe this is another con by Tesla/Elon. Arbitrarily keep most people below 100 to blame users for not getting the software. What a sham.


Are you saying that your overall score dropped from 100 to 99 due to a 99 today, and today's 99 was due to bogus unsafe following? If you didn't spend much time manually driving above 50mph, that's probably really easy to correct. Get out there again TODAY before your score for the day is locked in, drive manually over 50mph with a 2-3 second following gap behind someone. I'd bet that it will only take a few minutes of that to get your unsafe following percentage down if the ding was due to some really brief period of unsafe following.


----------



## Klaus-rf

I git an Unsafe following today and NEVER went above 49MPH.


----------



## Empow3rd

Bigriver said:


> I'm over 1500 miles, almost all on AP. I usually use AP a lot, but I've gone from maybe 90% use to 99% use. I've had TONS of events on AP (hard braking, Forward collision warnings and following distance) and none of them show up as a ding. As Tesla does not give us details on where/when the dings occur against our safety score, I don't think any of us know for certainty where our dings occurred. But I do know what didn't count when I have a 100 drive.
> 
> I have an overall 100 score but my hand calculation is that it is 99.513, based on mileage weighting of each day's score. I've had 8 days with 100 and 3 days with less than 100.


What score is Tesla using? Dashboard or hand calculation?


----------



## airj1012

Wooo! Thanks for all the help Currently 99.54. Just don't screw it up! Of course I have a road trip that starts tomorrow...


----------



## StevieC

I’m really starting to get pissed off the way Elon is constantly moving the goal posts on this 10.2 rollout. According to the Shareholder meeting today, now instead of 1000/ day, it’s around 1000-1200 on Friday midnight to those with 100. Then wait “a few days” to evaluate how the roll out goes. If well, then to the 99 score holders. Wasn’t clear if there’s going to be another pause to evaluate before “those with 98 or below”? Are we still going to be scored while we are waiting? No mention of that.


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## skygraff

Makes you wonder if Elon knows there are no more than 1200 100s.

Anyway, here’s a hack for aggressive braking: drive in reverse. Either you’ll have 100% backward acceleration and rank your score or, more likely, never get dinged for backward acceleration. Probably reduce unsafe follows as well but guessing aggressive turning would go up unless you’re top notch at smooth reverse slaloms.


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## shareef777

Long Ranger said:


> Are you saying that your overall score dropped from 100 to 99 due to a 99 today, and today's 99 was due to bogus unsafe following? If you didn't spend much time manually driving above 50mph, that's probably really easy to correct. Get out there again TODAY before your score for the day is locked in, drive manually over 50mph with a 2-3 second following gap behind someone. I'd bet that it will only take a few minutes of that to get your unsafe following percentage down if the ding was due to some really brief period of unsafe following.


Yes, my overall score dropped from 100 to 99, but today's score is being recorded as a 97. Unfortunately, there's no way to know how scores are calculated on a daily basis. I've got 6 drives today. Second has a 7.4% braking (overall score was still 100 after that), fourth has a 10% unsafe following (that's when my overall scored dropped to 99, which is BS because I left a ton of extra space between myself and every other vehicle because of my wife's ding earlier in the day). All other drives recorded a 0% across all categories. So heading out for another drive or two won't necessary bump my score as we don't know have the scores are tabulated within the day.


----------



## Bigriver

shareef777 said:


> Unfortunately, there's no way to know how scores are calculated on a daily basis. I've got 6 drives today….
> So heading out for another drive or two won't necessary bump my score as we don't know have the scores are tabulated within the day.


Tesla gave us the detailed equations for each drive and my post #164 showed a sample calculation of a day's score, weighting the trip scores based on the mileage. I understand that not everyone (ok, hardly anyone else) wants to do the Calc, but it is possible. The only thing someone might not readily know is the miles for each of the individual drives. I'm able to know that piece of info from Teslafi. But on a simpler basis, if you went x miles and got a 97 score, if you drove 2x more miles and got a 100 on that trip, it would bring that day up to a 99.


----------



## shareef777

Bigriver said:


> Tesla gave us the detailed equations for each drive and my post #164 showed a sample calculation of a day's score, weighting the trip scores based on the mileage. I understand that not everyone (ok, hardly anyone else) wants to do the Calc, but it is possible. The only thing someone might not readily know is the miles for each of the individual drives. I'm able to know that piece of info from Teslafi. But on a simpler basis, if you went x miles and got a 97 score, if you drove 2x more miles and got a 100 on that trip, it would bring that day up to a 99.


The math doesn't add up. My wife drove 7mi this morning and had 7% hard braking. I've since drove another 64mi with 0% hard braking but the daily total still shows 1.1%.

Additionally, on my latest drive I had a 33% unsafe following for a 15mi commute. Absolutely ridiculous since there were ZERO OTHER CARS ON THE ROAD!!!! 100% scam!!!


----------



## FRC

I wish Elon would add spelling as a category. It's not hard breaking, it's hard braking.


----------



## bwilson4web

When asked his safety score at the stockholder's meeting, 1:25:49, Elon answered, "I don't know. I suppose I should check."

Bob Wilson


----------



## shareef777

FRC said:


> I wish Elon would add spelling as a category. It's not hard breaking, it's hard braking.


Corrected it, happy?


----------



## Bigriver

shareef777 said:


> The math doesn't add up. My wife drove 7mi this morning and had 7% hard breaking. I've since drove another 64mi with 0% hard breaking but the daily total still shows 1.1%.


I won't try to defend what it lists for the overall total dings, but the math does work when applied per drive, and then those individual scores weighted by the miles.



shareef777 said:


> Additionally, on my latest drive I had a 33% unsafe following for a 15mi commute. Absolutely ridiculous since there were ZERO OTHER CARS ON THE ROAD!!!! 100% scam!!


Yesterday I had a 50% unsafe follow on a 174 mile drive. I was on autopilot most of the time. So there was probably one small occurrence somewhere that I was within 1 sec of something, and there was only 1 occurrence it caught me 1 to 3 sec away from something during the brief times I wasn't on autopilot. Thus the 50%. I don't know what that something was, but I am suspicious it sometimes incorrectly measures against something other than a vehicle. I have been through an abundance of construction that sometimes AP didn't handle.

Anyway, what I think was probably a single incident on the 174 mile drive results in a 98.8 score for that segment. Then I had 7 other perfect score segments that totaled only 96 miles. They all combine together for a 99 score applied to 270 miles. Didn't knock me out of the 100 club, but I'm on the hairy edge.










My general attitude towards all this is that it is an imperfect scoring system to get in line for an imperfect beta software product. I think tolerance for the scoring imperfections may be a part of being able to have tolerance for what FSD will do wrong.


----------



## shareef777

Bigriver said:


> I won't try to defend what it lists for the overall total dings, but the math does work when applied per drive, and then those individual scores weighted by the miles.


I use TeslaMate so have stats on all the individual drives. Found out the 7.4% hard braking wasn't even over 7mi, just a 2.7mi drive. I had a total of 10 drives yesterday.

Drive1: All 0% - 4.4miles
Drive2: 7.4% Hard Braking - 2.7mi
Drive3: All 0% - 6.8mi
Drive4: 10% Unsafe Following - 12.0mi
Drive5: All 0% - 9.4mi
Drive6: All 0% - 2.5mi
Drive7: All 0% - 2.5mi
Drive8: All 0% - 4.3mi
Drive9: All 0% - 13.4mi
Drive10: Unsafe Following 33.5% - 12.7mi

If anyone can explain how daily total came up to 1.1% Hard Braking and 5.1% Unsafe Following I'd appreciate it.


----------



## Tombolian

Bigriver said:


> knock me out of the 100 club, but I'm on the hairy edge.


Right there with you bud. After joining the club night-before-last, I very stupidly attempted to get more entrenched yesterday and wound up getting dinged for hard braking for .5 bringing me back to 99 overall😤
Fortunately, I managed to claw my way back but it took another 10 miles or so of effort, driving like a fool speeding up/slowing down, speeding up/slowing down...
I think I'll just let Ginger rest today.


Bigriver said:


> My general attitude towards all this is that it is an imperfect scoring system to get in line for an imperfect beta software product. I think tolerance for the scoring imperfections may be a part of being able to have tolerance for what FSD will do wrong.


I couldn't agree more.

Finally, Teslafi has more than doubled the number of people in the 100 club in the last two days. I'd assume it's due to a combination of 99ers climbing into it and folks not previously opted in opting in. I wonder, if there are substantially more than 1000-1200 people in the club by Midnight tonight, if it will change the way this gets rolled out?

Fingers still crossed!


----------



## Long Ranger

Bigriver said:


> I won't try to defend what it lists for the overall total dings, but the math does work when applied per drive, and then those individual scores weighted by the miles.
> 
> Yesterday I had a 50% unsafe follow on a 174 mile drive. I was on autopilot most of the time. So there was probably one small occurrence somewhere that I was within 1 sec of something, and there was only 1 occurrence it caught me 1 to 3 sec away from something during the brief times I wasn't on autopilot. Thus the 50%. I don't know what that something was, but I am suspicious it sometimes incorrectly measures against something other than a vehicle. I have been through an abundance of construction that sometimes AP didn't handle.
> 
> Anyway, what I think was probably a single incident on the 174 mile drive results in a 98.8 score for that segment. Then I had 7 other perfect score segments that totaled only 96 miles. They all combine together for a 99 score applied to 270 miles. Didn't knock me out of the 100 club, but I'm on the hairy edge.
> 
> View attachment 40088
> 
> 
> My general attitude towards all this is that it is an imperfect scoring system to get in line for an imperfect beta software product. I think tolerance for the scoring imperfections may be a part of being able to have tolerance for what FSD will do wrong.


I don't think you're calculating this correctly. You're breaking out each trip's score and applying the mileage weighting to each trip. The mileage weighting only applies to the overall daily score and total miles for the day. Within a single day, all of your data is combined. Your combined Unsafe Following was 50 yesterday, so you scored a 99 for the day. You could have gone out, done a little safe following and reduced that 50 score down below 23 to get yesterday's score up to 100. You weren't locked into 174 miles at a poor Unsafe Following score.


----------



## Bigriver

Long Ranger said:


> I don't think you're calculating this correctly. You're breaking out each trip's score and applying the mileage weighting to each trip. The mileage weighting only applies to the overall daily score and total miles for the day. Within a single day, all of your data is combined.


I could certainly be wrong, but all my calcs match Tesla results. And what you may not have caught from my description is that I got the ding on one trip, but had 7 others that were perfect scores. The ding was on the longest segment of the day, in the middle. That segment shows 50% ding, as does the overall day, despite 7 other trips showing no dings. I do agree that one can drive themselves out of a problem, but it becomes more difficult as you've accumulated mileage.

From my looking at all my data over my 2000+ miles, it still seems it is individually scoring each park to park trip segment, although the app only summarizes the day total.


----------



## Long Ranger

Bigriver said:


> I could certainly be wrong, but all my calcs match Tesla results. And what you may not have caught from my description is that I got the ding on one trip, but had 7 others that were perfect scores. The ding was on the longest segment of the day, in the middle. That segment shows 50% ding, as does the overall day, despite 7 other trips showing no dings. I do agree that one can drive themselves out of a problem, but it becomes more difficult as you've accumulated mileage.
> 
> From my looking at all my data over my 2000+ miles, it still seems it is individually scoring each park to park trip segment, although the app only summarizes the day total.


Well, I think in most cases, our calculation methods probably end up with the same score, especially when you consider that we're mostly scoring 100 or 99. However, I'm almost positive that the stats from all the trips in one day are all combined together and individual trip boundaries don't matter at all.

Here's an example from my first day, before I was going for 100:
Trip 1: 3.5 miles, 12.5% Agg. Turning
Trip 2: 3.5 miles, 3.4% Hard Braking
Trip 3: 2.5 miles, no dings
Trip 4: 2.5 miles, no dings
Overall daily stats at end of day:
Hard Braking 0.4%
Agg. Turning 3.8%
Other stats at 0
My overall score was 98 for the day. That matches the expected score if I plug in my overall daily stats. With weighted score per trip, I calculate (96(3.5)+92(3.5)+100(5))/12=96.5 which doesn't match the actual result.


----------



## Long Ranger

shareef777 said:


> I use TeslaMate so have stats on all the individual drives. Found out the 7.4% hard braking wasn't even over 7mi, just a 2.7mi drive. I had a total of 10 drives yesterday.
> 
> Drive1: All 0% - 4.4miles
> Drive2: 7.4% Hard Braking - 2.7mi
> Drive3: All 0% - 6.8mi
> Drive4: 10% Unsafe Following - 12.0mi
> Drive5: All 0% - 9.4mi
> Drive6: All 0% - 2.5mi
> Drive7: All 0% - 2.5mi
> Drive8: All 0% - 4.3mi
> Drive9: All 0% - 13.4mi
> Drive10: Unsafe Following 33.5% - 12.7mi
> 
> If anyone can explain how daily total came up to 1.1% Hard Braking and 5.1% Unsafe Following I'd appreciate it.


The stats are combined across drives within a single day, so individual trip boundaries don't matter. Let's say the hard braking on trip 2 was for one second. That would have been out of 13.5 seconds of braking on that trip. If you total braking time for the day was 90.9 seconds, 1/90.9 would give you a 1.1% Hard Braking stat. You could have gone around the block a number of times at the end of the day, with a lot of gentle braking, to get that stat for the day down and improve your score (but also note that if you mess up and get dinged doing this, that could ruin your score for the day).


----------



## shareef777

Long Ranger said:


> The stats are combined across drives within a single day, so individual trip boundaries don't matter. Let's say the hard braking on trip 2 was for one second. That would have been out of 13.5 seconds of braking on that trip. If you total braking time for the day was 90.9 seconds, 1/90.9 would give you a 1.1% Hard Braking stat. You could have gone around the block a number of times at the end of the day, with a lot of gentle braking, to get that stat for the day down and improve your score (but also note that if you mess up and get dinged doing this, that could ruin your score for the day).


Considering my over-all score was still 100 at that time I don't think the 7.4% made a difference, nor making any number of added trips. The system is simply broken (hence the beta tag). Even now, it won't load:


----------



## Tombolian

shareef777 said:


> Even now, it won't load:


Confirmed, mine won't load either. Should we assume that they've taken it offline to assess the results? With 10.5 hours to go, it wouldn't surprise me. Crossing my toes now...


----------



## Long Ranger

shareef777 said:


> Considering my over-all score was still 100 at that time I don't think the 7.4% made a difference, nor making any number of added trips. The system is simply broken (hence the beta tag). Even now, it won't load:


The calculations aren't broken, can't say the same about any loading issues. I'm not saying the system is fair, but the math is consistent. What happened to you was that the hard braking didn't count as much against your overall score early in the day because your mileage for the day was low. As you added more miles, that hard braking took on more weight, even though the hard braking number was getting better. I'm pretty confident that if I knew your history of daily scores and mileage per day, I could calculate that your overall score was still >99.5 after the hard braking trip, but that it was the extra mileage that dropped your score below 99.5. Your 1.1% Hard Braking combined with your mileage for the day was definitely what caused the overall score to dip (5.1% Unsafe Following had an almost negligible effect).


----------



## shareef777

Long Ranger said:


> The calculations aren't broken, can't say the same about any loading issues. I'm not saying the system is fair, but the math is consistent. What happened to you was that the hard braking didn't count as much against your overall score early in the day because your mileage for the day was low. As you added more miles, that hard braking took on more weight, even though the hard braking number was getting better. I'm pretty confident that if I knew your history of daily scores and mileage per day, I could calculate that your overall score was still >99.5 after the hard braking trip, but that it was the extra mileage that dropped your score below 99.5. Your 1.1% Hard Braking combined with your mileage for the day was definitely what caused the overall score to dip (5.1% Unsafe Following had an almost negligible effect).


You and I have different understandings of "consistent". I posted my numbers for the day, how does it add up to 1.1% hard braking!?


----------



## Tombolian

shareef777 said:


> You and I have different understandings of "consistent". I posted my numbers for the day, how does it add up to 1.1% hard braking!?


(sticking his neck out there) I don't think we can calculate anything without knowing the actual time spent braking, as well as the percentage of that time defined as 'hard braking' (within the defined thresholds) per trip. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I often am.


----------



## shareef777

Tombolian said:


> (sticking his neck out there) I don't think we can calculate anything without knowing the actual time spent braking, as well as the percentage of that time defined as 'hard braking' (within the defined thresholds) per trip. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I often am.


If it's "time" based then wouldn't that mean the more time I've driven afterward at 0% hard braking the over-all number would go down considerably.

Following distance is another inconsistent mess.


----------



## Long Ranger

shareef777 said:


> You and I have different understandings of "consistent". I posted my numbers for the day, how does it add up to 1.1% hard braking!?


As @Tombolian just said, it's percentage of time hard braking over the entire day. For every second of hard braking (>0.3g) you had in trip #2, you had about 91 seconds of overall (>0.1g) braking throughout the day to get to 1.1%. I'm not saying that we can calculate the 1.1% number itself, since we don't have that raw data. But you can go out and do a bunch of gentle braking and watch that number go down as expected. In terms of consistent calculations that we can do ourselves, I'm talking about the math to calculate a daily score and an overall score.



shareef777 said:


> If it's "time" based then wouldn't that mean the more time I've driven afterward at 0% hard braking the over-all number would go down considerably.


It did go down. From 7.4% to 1.1%. It's a matter of how much time you spent braking (at >0.1g) not how much time driving.


----------



## shareef777

Long Ranger said:


> As @Tombolian just said, it's percentage of time hard braking over the entire day. For every second of hard braking (>0.3g) you had in trip #2, you had about 91 seconds of overall (>0.1g) braking throughout the day to get to 1.1%. I'm not saying that we can calculate the 1.1% number itself, since we don't have that raw data. But you can go out and do a bunch of gentle braking and watch that number go down as expected. In terms of consistent calculations that we can do ourselves, I'm talking about the math to calculate a daily score and an overall score.
> 
> It did go down. From 7.4% to 1.1%. It's a matter of how much time you spent braking (at >0.1g) not how much time driving.


So you're saying 1 pedal driving (regenerative braking) calculates against us? I literally press the brake zero times after that 7.4% drive (can't say how much of that was exactly spent braking as I wasn't driving).


----------



## FRC

shareef777 said:


> So you're saying 1 pedal driving (regenerative braking) calculates against us? I literally press the brake zero times after that 7.4% drive (can't say how much of that was exactly spent braking as I wasn't driving).


Yes


----------



## Tombolian

shareef777 said:


> So you're saying 1 pedal driving (regenerative braking) calculates against us? I literally press the brake zero times after that 7.4% drive (can't say how much of that was exactly spent braking as I wasn't driving).


Actually, I used regenerative braking to lower my hard braking values every time I had hard braking > 0. I did this on 4 or 5 separate days with success. That said, last night I tried the same trick (again, to further entrench myself in the 100 club) and at some point it dinged me for .5 to bring my overall back down to 99. I now suspect that using regen braking while going downhill or flat would keep me in the range of >.1 and <.3 g, yet doing so uphill provided just enough to exceed .3g backward acceleration.
Fortunately, I was able to feather my regen braking over the next 10 miles of city driving to bring me back to 100.
Also, interestingly, safety scores are loading properly again...


----------



## Long Ranger

shareef777 said:


> So you're saying 1 pedal driving (regenerative braking) calculates against us? I literally press the brake zero times after that 7.4% drive (can't say how much of that was exactly spent braking as I wasn't driving).


No, sorry, when I say braking I don't mean you have to use the actual brake pedal. It's deceleration of greater than 0.1g (but not more than 0.3g) that counts as good braking. Regen definitely qualifies as good braking. When I once had a hard braking incident, I went out and did several hundred gentle regen events in the neighborhood to get my hard braking score down from 0.4% to 0.2% and my daily score up to 100. I've heard regen goes up to 0.2g, but I've also heard reports of full regen triggering the hard braking threshold when done on a slope (I've heard downhill, and I've heard uphill, I guess the answer depends upon whether they are really measuring g's or rate of change in speed).


----------



## ECTO-1

99.353/100 over 963 miles. DC drivers are ruthless!

Fail!

ECTO-1


----------



## Madmolecule

How do I get what Tesla has owed me for three years with a score of 86. How does their beta saftey test prove you're proficient at a managing car using full self driving is beyond me and any logic or legal precedents I can think of. When will they define FSD. When will they deliver the *Product* I paid for? Is FSD a product or a PowerPoint dream? I don't think anyone can defend it was a product three years ago when I was sold it. What is it, what are city streets? Please don't act like you know what you purchased, because you don't. i don't think even Elon knows. He didn't think it might be smart to check his safety score. I don't think he's ever used dog mode, camp mode. Tesla hasn't even figured out yet that the rear air conditioner should always be on by default even if there is just one person in the car. The car is not that big and you're not saving that much energy. Especially in the long range model.


----------



## bwilson4web

Madmolecule said:


> How do I get what Tesla has owed me for three years with a score of 86. How does their beta saftey test prove you're proficient at a managing car using full self driving is beyond me and any logic or legal precedents I can think of.


Assuming no 'show stoppers,' we should see everyone gets their beta this quarter. That way Tesla can credit the pending charges into the Q4 financials. A staggered, slow release will address any critics who try to claim Tesla released 'half baked' software.

Bob Wilson


----------



## Madmolecule

I suspect it’s not a release at all, but just a marketing gimmick to say they need more time to fix the corner cases. If the product is finished and only needs qualified safe drivers to use it why aren’t there a massive amount of detail demos showing what the final version that is going to be released in beta does, what his features that is And what the driver requirements are from an interaction standpoint. Also, until I get my safety score to 100 are they going to make me wait on updates on summon, auto pilot, auto park, deep rain and the other automated features that have never worked? Why don’t we all get 10.2, with the full self driving disabled until we pass the test? I can’t answer that, it’s not finished and it doesn’t work


----------



## bwilson4web

Madmolecule said:


> . . . it's not finished and it doesn't work


I just updated the iOS on my iPhone to 15.0.1 which is the latest of dozens over the four years I've owned it. I'm suggesting 'software is never done.' Rather software is generally improved with each release (except for Microsoft.) So FSD 10.2 will easily be in the 11.x or even 12.y later this quarter. The software development cycle:

Code
Release
Diagnose problems
GOTO step 1

Bob Wilson


----------



## shareef777

bwilson4web said:


> I just updated the iOS on my iPhone to 15.0.1 which is the latest of dozens over the four years I've owned it. I'm suggesting 'software is never done.' Rather software is generally improved with each release (except for Microsoft.) So FSD 10.2 will easily be in the 11.x or even 12.y later this quarter. The software development cycle:
> 
> Code
> Release
> Diagnose problems
> GOTO step 1
> 
> Bob Wilson


3 years in and I'm still waiting for Tesla to get to step 2. Apple/iOS has gone through that cycle a dozen times in the 3 years. A few dozen times if you signed up to the public beta. Strangely, Apple doesn't have a Scoring system for their beta.

*I understand there's a difference between a phone and vehicle, but maybe Tesla/Elon should have understood that BEFORE taking our money!


----------



## M3OC Rules

Gonna be some tense drives this weekend....:grimacing:


----------



## M3OC Rules

Great news for those on the edge though! Good luck everyone!


----------



## Tombolian

So who's gotten it? Anybody?
*a bit later*
Nevermind, I saw Elon's tweet.... Delayed to Sunday or Monday... Looks like I will be productive this weekend afterall!


----------



## shareef777

Tombolian said:


> So who's gotten it? Anybody?
> *a bit later*
> Nevermind, I saw Elon's tweet.... Delayed to Sunday or Monday... Looks like I will be productive this weekend afterall!


My guess is that too many people were at 100.


----------



## Tombolian

shareef777 said:


> My guess is that too many people were at 100.


It's a good guess. The amount of 100's in Teslafi grew by threefold in the last few days whether it was just people opting in or actually raising their score is anybody's guess, but a fact nonetheless. If true, I probably won't qualify being in the "low 100's" having had to fight to bring my 98 up to it, and not without "cheating". If that's the outcome, I get it, and most importantly am not trippin'. Don't quote me on this, but I think there's a bible verse that goes "All good things come to those who wait on Elon", or something like that...


----------



## r1200gs4ok

vinnie97 said:


> I guess they haven't released the latest app update for my version of Android, as I see nothing about a safety score.


join teslafi and you can see it for total and daily driving


----------



## r1200gs4ok

JasonF said:


> I'm guessing that scoring feature only works if you have FSD?
> 
> Probably for the best. Orlando is pretty bad, and I have to make some kind of emergency maneuver at least once per day.


drive in LA


----------



## r1200gs4ok

Madmolecule said:


> I suspect it's not a release at all, but just a marketing gimmick to say they need more time to fix the corner cases. If the product is finished and only needs qualified safe drivers to use it why aren't there a massive amount of detail demos showing what the final version that is going to be released in beta does, what his features that is And what the driver requirements are from an interaction standpoint. Also, until I get my safety score to 100 are they going to make me wait on updates on summon, auto pilot, auto park, deep rain and the other automated features that have never worked? Why don't we all get 10.2, with the full self driving disabled until we pass the test? I can't answer that, it's not finished and it doesn't work


nothing is 100%.......making us wait til 100% is stupid......if everything was 100% good, then we would have perpetual motion machines......people with over 500 miles driving and 99% scores are just as safe as people with 250 miles at 100%......its an arbitrary thing.......I keep getting ding fr following too close on LA freeways and I am trying to keep a space between me and the other car......but as you guessed it, LA drivers like to cut in front of you even if there is only 2 feet....they figure you will slow down and let them in......hopefully, I will see FSD within the second or third release of scores with 99%


----------



## Tombolian

r1200gs4ok said:


> join teslafi and you can see it for total and daily driving


I was going to suggest you read the rest of the thread before making comments about things already answered, but then I realized that you pointed out "daily driving" details in Teslafi for which I was previously unaware. There it is, located in the particular daily drive page for the day in question. So, Thank you aretwelvehundredg'sforokay, and welcome to the group!


----------



## JasonF

r1200gs4ok said:


> drive in LA


I don't have enough of a vocabulary of cursewords to survive there. Also, I'm not armed.


----------



## r1200gs4ok

I wonder what the total number of cars have 100%......there has to be over 1200 based on all the cars sold.....


----------



## dburkland

shareef777 said:


> My guess is that too many people were at 100.


Had to make this meme after Elon taketh once again…


----------



## Klaus-rf

bwilson4web said:


> Assuming no 'show stoppers,' we should see everyone gets their beta this quarter. That way Tesla can credit the pending charges into the Q4 financials. A staggered, slow release will address any critics who try to claim Tesla released 'half baked' software.
> 
> Bob Wilson


Will it be capable of driving - unattended - from New York to Los Angels as Elon stated three+ years ago? THAT is what we were promised many, many years ago.

Extra credit: How will it charge itself to make the trip?


----------



## bwilson4web

In October 2019, TSLA was at ~$50/share. If instead I’d bought $6k of TSLA (120 shares,) today it would have a profit of $780 - $50 ~= $730/share. Minus capital gains, ~$490/share to spend on FSD, $59,000.

Looks like early purchase of FSD was a significant loss … but then I spent four years in the USMC so this pails. Guess like any good pimp, I’ll have to put “Blue Bobs” on the street to earn it back. 😄

Bob Wilson


----------



## r1200gs4ok

bwilson4web said:


> In October 2019, TSLA was at ~$50/share. If instead I'd bought $6k of TSLA (120 shares,) today it would have a profit of $780 - $50 ~= $730/share. Minus capital gains, ~$490/share to spend on FSD, $59,000.
> 
> Looks like early purchase of FSD was a significant loss … but then I spent four years in the USMC so this pales. Guess like any good pimp, I'll have to put "Blue Bobs" on the street to earn it back. 😄
> 
> Bob Wilson


yea but the USMC was probably the best years you ever had......as a Colonel, USMC, my time was the best....except for the year my son was born.......simper-fi my friend


----------



## bwilson4web

shareef777 said:


> Tesla/Elon should have understood that BEFORE taking our money!


A couple of months after my FSD purchase, the FSD team realized explicit sensor analysis on a frame-by-frame would never scale. So they changed to an AI based classification system.

As soon as frames allowed classification of image objects, the software knew 'orange cones' would not jump in front of the car. Predictive behavior significantly reduced the processing allowing concentrating on the risky people and objects. Self driving could optimize processing on the real risks.

So I am OK with others, the pioneers leading the debug effort. Sure I would like to be in the early team but I'm patient.

Bob Wilson


----------



## bwilson4web

r1200gs4ok said:


> yea but the USMC was probably the best years you ever had......as a Colonel, USMC, my time was the best....except for the year my son was born.......simper-fi my friend


It taught me many valuable lessons and I still feel everything afterwards has been better. I did have time to discuss things with Marine Colonels and realized they were a cut above the lower ranks. But I wanted the right to quit and left … no regrets.

If you are going into the bush hunting killers, you want to be in the company of Marines.

Bob Wilson

Ps. Moderators I have no interest in further USMC discussion outside of PM messages.


----------



## shareef777

bwilson4web said:


> A couple of months after my FSD purchase, the FSD team realized explicit sensor analysis on a frame-by-frame would never scale. So they changed to an AI based classification system.
> 
> As soon as frames allowed classification of image objects, the software knew 'orange cones' would not jump in front of the car. Predictive behavior significantly reduced the processing allowing concentrating on the risky people and objects. Self driving could optimize processing on the real risks.
> 
> So I am OK with others, the pioneers leading the debug effort. Sure I would like to be in the early team but I'm patient.
> 
> Bob Wilson


So you understand how Apple takes money AFTER they figure such issues and keep on giving updates to improve it. Wherein Tesla takes your money, gives you nothing and keeps on improving uh nothing!?


----------



## bwilson4web

shareef777 said:


> So you understand how Apple takes money AFTER they figure such issues and keep on giving updates to improve it. Wherein Tesla takes your money, gives you nothing and keeps on improving uh nothing!?


A retired engineer, I know how it works when you switch from a 'dead end' to a better approach. I wish the next group of testers wring it out. If I get it before December, I'll be happy.

Bob Wilson


----------



## MJJ

Think about what it would take to get the *lowest* score and not have an accident. These are the people we want as beta testers.


----------



## GDN

Made a drive downtown Dallas this evening, heavier traffic, variety of reasons, but lets just say I extended the time the Beta will get to me by a few weeks  Score down to 90.


----------



## MJJ

GDN said:


> Made a drive downtown Dallas this evening, heavier traffic, variety of reasons, but lets just say I extended the time the Beta will get to me by a few weeks  Score down to 90.


Lordy, I'm plunged into depression if I get a 98.


----------



## r1200gs4ok

bwilson4web said:


> It taught me many valuable lessons and I still feel everything afterwards has been better. I did have time to discuss things with Marine Colonels and realized they were a cut above the lower ranks. But I wanted the right to quit and left … no regrets.
> 
> If you are going into the bush hunting killers, you want to be in the company of Marines.
> 
> Bob Wilson
> 
> Ps. Moderators I have no interest in further USMC discussion outside of PM messages.


flew many CAS missions in support of the Marine grunts......bless'em all


----------



## Madmolecule

bwilson4web said:


> A couple of months after my FSD purchase, the FSD team realized explicit sensor analysis on a frame-by-frame would never scale. So they changed to an AI based classification system.
> 
> As soon as frames allowed classification of image objects, the software knew 'orange cones' would not jump in front of the car. Predictive behavior significantly reduced the processing allowing concentrating on the risky people and objects. Self driving could optimize processing on the real risks.
> 
> So I am OK with others, the pioneers leading the debug effort. Sure I would like to be in the early team but I'm patient.
> 
> Bob Wilson


what, they sold the product without realizing that thier chosen method had NO change of working, and the hardware could not support the old or the new method. Engineer or Marketing? Fantasy Uncertainty and Doubt

I hope the Marines did not give you the greatest gun ever built, send you in a battle, and promise to ship you some bullets, that will be the best bullets ever created, once you score 100 on your marksman test. with my 85 I guess I will never see battle.

I wonder how Elon got the beta without knowing his safety score?

I guess I won't be getting Tesla Insurance either.

I can't wait to start the see Tesla robots (beta bots) stuck in corners all over the city. How is the development going on that? Or was that just more smoke and mirrors


----------



## bwilson4web

During my operating system career, I was often the last person asked to help when software failed. I’ve seen a lot of systems built on bad assumptions. But reality teaches us lessons.

The question is whether we are bright enough to learn and adapt. Elon is famous for welcoming failure and adjusting. Failure to deal with failure is the only problem.

Bob Wilson


----------



## Klaus-rf

Madmolecule said:


> I wonder how Elon got the beta without knowing his safety score?


Zn my best George Clooney:

"He knows a guy ..."


----------



## garsh

GDN said:


> Made a drive downtown Dallas this evening, heavier traffic, variety of reasons, but lets just say I extended the time the Beta will get to me by a few weeks  Score down to 90.


Be careful or I'll pass you by - I'm up to 89 now.

Which is strange, given that I have more red bars than green.


----------



## ltorg

I believe they have set the Safety Score algorithm to find the most benign areas to let people do beta testing for the urban FSD release, which will bite them (or us) when the final version comes out and it's can't cope with city driving. I drove a short trip (15mi) today on surface streets and the freeway; light traffic, drove like an overcautious elderly driver, used AP at the speed limit on the freeway, and got penalized for forward collision warnings (! there were none and not even any close calls), hard braking, and unsafe following! They definitely don't want anyone in the greater LA area to be a beta tester - the Safety Score app is a joke.


----------



## iChris93

ltorg said:


> which will bite them (or us) when the final version comes out and it's can't cope with city driving.


That is probably still years away and will be in "beta" in those areas first to "learn".


----------



## SAronian

bwilson4web said:


> I just updated the iOS on my iPhone to 15.0.1 which is the latest of dozens over the four years I've owned it. I'm suggesting 'software is never done.' Rather software is generally improved with each release (except for Microsoft.) So FSD 10.2 will easily be in the 11.x or even 12.y later this quarter. The software development cycle:
> 
> Code
> Release
> Diagnose problems
> GOTO step 1
> 
> Bob Wilson


Yup - Here comes 15.0.2 today


----------



## iChris93

My drive home from work today wasn’t counted. No reset of the screen, so I’m not sure why.


----------



## FRC

iChris93 said:


> My drive home from work today wasn't counted. No reset of the screen, so I'm not sure why.


Interesting...My drive at 9:15 EDT tonight was counted. I'm assuming neither of us have FSD bets yet?


----------



## iChris93

FRC said:


> I'm assuming neither of us have FSD bets yet?


That's right, I'm at 98.


----------



## FRC

iChris93 said:


> That's right, I'm at 98.


99 for me


----------



## shareef777

Had a lot of drives/distance today. Finally back up to 100.

Unrelated question: how do you unplug the battery 😂


----------



## iChris93

iChris93 said:


> My drive home from work today wasn't counted. No reset of the screen, so I'm not sure why.





FRC said:


> Interesting...My drive at 9:15 EDT tonight was counted. I'm assuming neither of us have FSD bets yet?


Went to Lowe's. That trip counted.


----------



## r1200gs4ok

anybody with 99 got it yet......if not, when do you think it will go out to 99's


----------



## Steve Martin

r1200gs4ok said:


> anybody with 99 got it yet......if not, when do you think it will go out to 99's


According to Elon's tweet, next weekend when 10.3 is released.


----------



## Mr. Spacely

r1200gs4ok said:


> anybody with 99 got it yet......if not, when do you think it will go out to 99's


Will those of us with 100 who missed out get it before the 99s? Or all of us together this weekend?


----------



## FRC

If you have your heart set on this weekend, your setting yourself up for disappointment. Perhaps it will happen then, but a few weeks(or months) out is much more likely IMHO.


----------



## iChris93

Mr. Spacely said:


> Will those of us with 100 who missed out get it before the 99s? Or all of us together this weekend?


You'll never get it.


----------



## GDN

iChris93 said:


> That's right, I'm at 98.





FRC said:


> 99 for me


You all just don't know how to drive and enjoy this car. Who you drivin' around - Grandma? In my 2 miles of driving each day I've managed to get my score down to 89!


----------



## iChris93

GDN said:


> Who you drivin' around - Grandma?


My grandma never drove. My grandpa would have been killed by unsafe follow and hard braking. The elderly need true FSD!

Edit: I realized I originally misread your post thinking you were calling us grandma drivers.


----------



## FRC

GDN said:


> You all just don't know how to drive and enjoy this car. Who you drivin' around - Grandma? In my 2 miles of driving each day I've managed to get my score down to 89!


Some seem to keep 100's easily; others struggle to stay in the 90's. Maybe there's something to this saftey score after all, @GDN...


----------



## JasonF

Mr. Spacely said:


> Will those of us with 100 who missed out get it before the 99s? Or all of us together this weekend?


If my new prediction of the purpose of this beta is correct - to have a group of very patient drivers who live in relatively stable traffic areas in order to show off its capabilities - it's going to be a long while before Tesla is willing to expand it and publicly display a setback in its capabilities. So I think the sub-100's will be sometime in November, after the press buzzing around the new FSD beta round gets bored.


----------



## shareef777

I got back up to 100 after another 100mi of driving. The scoring system is making less and less sense to me. My hard braking is at 0.2%. I had a 40mi day with 1.2%, and a 71mi day with 1.1%. Total driven miles to date is 507mi.

All I know is that my car isn't getting any sleep till FSD is released to it considering how often I keep checking my score.


----------



## MJJ

shareef777 said:


> I got back up to 100 after another 100mi of driving. The scoring system is making less and less sense to me. My hard braking is at 0.2%. I had a 40mi day with 1.2%, and a 71mi day with 1.1%. Total driven miles to date is 507mi.
> 
> All I know is that my car isn't getting any sleep till FSD is released to it considering how often I keep checking my score.


Calling it a "safety score" is doing the concept of safety a grave disservice. It should be called a "FSD compatibility score." Then at least we could say "These metrics are seriously FCSed"


----------



## Tombolian

shareef777 said:


> I got back up to 100 after another 100mi of driving. The scoring system is making less and less sense to me. My hard braking is at 0.2%. I had a 40mi day with 1.2%, and a 71mi day with 1.1%. Total driven miles to date is 507mi.
> 
> All I know is that my car isn't getting any sleep till FSD is released to it considering how often I keep checking my score.


Numbers numbers numbers! Too many numbers! To the best of my knowledge, miles driven don't factor into the hard braking calculation at all. 
I got to and maintained my 100 score by doing the best I could during normal daily drives, and if I scored less than 100 for that day, I would do what was necessary to bring my scores up before the end of the night. For hard driving dings, for example, I would find an empty (level) street and accelerate like a bat-out-of-hell, then take my foot off of the accelerator (regen braking) until the car was nearly stopped. Wash-rinse-repeat. After a couple/few miles of doing this, I would park, get out of the driver's seat, get back in and check my score. If I wasn't yet at 100, I'd continue.
I cheated with FCW too several times when my car thought I was going to crash into a parked car while going around sharp turns. Unfair dinging warranted unfair reboots.
I couldn't find an easy way to bring my aggressive turns down once scored, but their effect on the overall score wasn't nearly as bad as the other metrics so I didn't really have to worry too much about it. Same with following distance dings although I did drive many miles 2 seconds behind other cars on the freeway to bring that number down when necessary.
Hope this helps reduce the number of posts with so many numbers!


----------



## shareef777

Tombolian said:


> Numbers numbers numbers! Too many numbers! To the best of my knowledge, miles driven don't factor into the hard braking calculation at all.
> I got to and maintained my 100 score by doing the best I could during normal daily drives, and if I scored less than 100 for that day, I would do what was necessary to bring my scores up before the end of the night. For hard driving dings, for example, I would find an empty (level) street and accelerate like a bat-out-of-hell, then take my foot off of the accelerator (regen braking) until the car was nearly stopped. Wash-rinse-repeat. After a couple/few miles of doing this, I would park, get out of the driver's seat, get back in and check my score. If I wasn't yet at 100, I'd continue.
> I cheated with FCW too several times when my car thought I was going to crash into a parked car while going around sharp turns. Unfair dinging warranted unfair reboots.
> I couldn't find an easy way to bring my aggressive turns down once scored, but their effect on the overall score wasn't nearly as bad as the other metrics so I didn't really have to worry too much about it. Same with following distance dings although I did drive many miles 2 seconds behind other cars on the freeway to bring that number down when necessary.
> Hope this helps reduce the number of posts with so many numbers!


Personally, I think you need to apply a little bit of brake for it to register against hard braking. I've been using 100% regen and it wouldn't budge till I started accelerating closer towards a light/sign/vehicle and then lightly tapping the brake.

As for unsafe following, I realized that I spent so much time at a distance of 5+ vehicles that my car wouldn't even SEE the car ahead of me so it wasn't considered following. Had to narrow that down to 2-3 vehicles apart so that the leading car shows up on-screen to get that number down.

This is DEFINITELY NOT a safety score, but rather a narrowly defined set of metrics/requirements that you'd need to meet.


----------



## Tombolian

shareef777 said:


> Personally, I think you need to apply a little bit of brake for it to register against hard braking.


Agreed, even if barely pressed, no matter how softly, it seemed to ding me. I even got dinged with nothing more than regen when also going uphill. That tiny amount of gravity assist would put it over the edge.


----------



## r1200gs4ok

I had a phantom brake going to Yuma on Tuesday......happened on a long straight road with a car on my left almost even with me....the on ramp had a car coming to merge.......could not move over and even though the margin car was almost beside me, the car lunged forward and braked.......look at the score and I had a 98 for the day with some following too close and the hard braking......still at 99 but that probably kept me from going 100% overall on that 300 mile trip......cant seem to get there because of following to close because of people passing and then cutting in too close to the car......even though they are going a lot faster than I am driving, when they come back to your lane it registers as following too close....


----------



## vinnie97

I'm at 98% and have little interest in excruciatingly playing driving games to increase my statistics. Will I get it by December?


----------



## Tombolian

vinnie97 said:


> I'm at 98% and have little interest in excruciatingly playing driving games to increase my statistics. Will I get it by December?


Probably not with that attitude! 😜


----------



## Tombolian

r1200gs4ok said:


> cant seem to get there because of following to close because of people passing and then cutting in too close to the car......even though they are going a lot faster than I am driving, when they come back to your lane it registers as following too close....


Again, another unfair ding. Driving with my finger on the shifter stalk, if I so much as suspected that somebody might cut in front of me, I would click on autopilot until they were more than 1 second's distance in front if me before I would turn it back off. Games indeed.


----------



## NYer

shareef777 said:


> Yeah, this seems like it'd be a life saving feature to the general public. I can also use it to track my teenagers driving habits and talk down to them if they get anything less than 100 like Tesla is gonna do to those of us wanting FSD.


That's a great idea. I'd also like to compare the scores by state. I'm expecting to see CA rank pretty low...


----------



## RonAz

Interesting that Hard Braking is a percentage of braking. If Regen is not counted as braking, I am in trouble. The ONLY time I used the foot brake is when Regen is not enough in some traffic situations. That is probably where my hard braking dings sneak in.
I am amazed at all of the 100"s. If I am staying back 3-4 seconds, I just make it easier for some to cut in and be too close. Even though I am on 99%, following to close has been my biggest problem. If my car is in Regen when people cut in front of me, it should not be a ding. If you are following too close, it would be nice if the vehicle in front of you on the screen would turn yellow to let the driver know.


----------



## FRC

RonAz said:


> Interesting that Hard Braking is a percentage of braking. If Regen is not counted as braking, I am in trouble. The ONLY time I used the foot brake is when Regen is not enough in some traffic situations. That is probably where my hard braking dings sneak in.
> I am amazed at all of the 100"s. If I am staying back 3-4 seconds, I just make it easier for some to cut in and be too close. Even though I am on 99%, following to close has been my biggest problem. If my car is in Regen when people cut in front of me, it should not be a ding. If you are following too close, it would be nice if the vehicle in front of you on the screen would turn yellow to let the driver know.


Following too closely is an extremely "soft" ding in the calculation. Unlikely that it alone would drop a 100 to 99. Hard braking is a much "harder" ding and more likely to drop your score. In my experience, if I'm travelling, say, 70 mph and fully release to accelerator, or disengage TACC even without touching the brake, I'm very likely to get a hard braking ding. Fair? Not even close. But I don't believe that fairness has any bearing on the Safety Score.


----------



## Klaus-rf

In my Safe Drive score play today, there was an instance of two lanes (me in right lane) and stopped traffic in the left lane. The right lane (mine) was clear for at least 100 feet beyond the stopped traffic in my lane. Straight section of road. Then loud FCW warning beeps - no idea why as there was nothing in my lane for 100 feet. Then it does heavy braking for a very short time, then continues on it's merry way like nothing happened. Apparently AP can't tell which lane traffic is in sometimes. And it blames me for it!

Later i checked my score and got dinged for FCW and heavy braking - ALL of which was done by and while on AP. So much for not getting dinged while on AP.


----------



## SystemCrashed

RonAz said:


> Interesting that Hard Braking is a percentage of braking. If Regen is not counted as braking, I am in trouble. The ONLY time I used the foot brake is when Regen is not enough in some traffic situations. That is probably where my hard braking dings sneak in.
> I am amazed at all of the 100"s. If I am staying back 3-4 seconds, I just make it easier for some to cut in and be too close. Even though I am on 99%, following to close has been my biggest problem. If my car is in Regen when people cut in front of me, it should not be a ding. If you are following too close, it would be nice if the vehicle in front of you on the screen would turn yellow to let the driver know.


You make a great point about breaking % I'm at 0.3%HB and I have driven hundreds of miles with 0%HB scores and it has not decreased, I think it is because I do not use the brakes at all, 100% of the time I depend on regen. I was going to try a drive where I turn off regen, use the brake pedal very lightly and see if that brings HB score down. Same issue with UF, hard to bring that down if you use AP all the time.


----------



## Long Ranger

Klaus-rf said:


> Later i checked my score and got dinged for FCW and heaving braking - ALL of which was done by and while on AP. So much for not getting dinged while on AP.


Just curious, were you perhaps on the accelerator to keep AP from slowing like it does when traffic to your left is slow? I'm not sure about this, but I've suspected that it would blame you for an FCW if you're on AP but overriding the speed.


----------



## Long Ranger

SystemCrashed said:


> You make a great point about breaking % I'm at 0.3%HB and I have driven hundreds of miles with 0%HB scores and it has not decreased, I think it is because I do not use the brakes at all, 100% of the time I depend on regen. I was going to try a drive where I turn off regen, use the brake pedal very lightly and see if that brings HB score down.


First, don't worry about your individual stats except for the current day's stats.

I brought my HB score down to 0.1% with all regen. I wouldn't mess with the brake pedal. Much more likely to get an accidental ding. Full regen is supposed to be 0.2g. Good braking is between 0.1g and 0.3g, so regen is definitely strong enough (and some have even reported a ding with full regen on a hill). You just have to do a LOT of gentle braking/regen to get it down from 0.3 to 0.2 to 0.1%. At 0.3% you've done 333 seconds of good braking for every second of hard braking. At 0.2%, you need 500 seconds, and at 0.1% 1000 seconds. That's a lot of good braking for every ding.


----------



## Tombolian

Long Ranger said:


> I wouldn't mess with the brake pedal.


This...


----------



## Klaus-rf

Long Ranger said:


> Just curious, were you perhaps on the accelerator to keep AP from slowing like it does when traffic to your left is slow? I'm not sure about this, but I've suspected that it would blame you for an FCW if you're on AP but overriding the speed.


No accel pedal. The only times I use the accel pedal with AP is at starting from as full stop (where it's waaay too slow starting up) and when approaching green traffic and HAWK lights.


----------



## Tombolian

Klaus-rf said:


> and when approaching green traffic and HAWK lights.


Have you turned off your "traffic light and stop sign control" setting? (y'all are going to get tired of me saying this)


----------



## Madmolecule

My friend and I are having a competition for the bottom it appears.


----------



## Klaus-rf

Tombolian said:


> Have you turned off your "traffic light and stop sign control" setting? (y'all are going to get tired of me saying this)


NO!

I do not have the suoer-new-pre-Beta ßeta version.


----------



## Tombolian

Klaus-rf said:


> NO!
> 
> I do not have the suoer-new-pre-Beta ßeta version.


Dang it! My poor reading comprehension skills strike again! Sorry, man.


----------



## SystemCrashed

Madmolecule said:


> My friend and I are having a competition for the bottom it appears.
> View attachment 40232


I saw a 58 yesterday… advised him to opt-out at this point.


----------



## SystemCrashed

Long Ranger said:


> You just have to do a LOT of gentle braking/regen to get it down from 0.3 to 0.2 to 0.1%.


Luckily, no more Safety score to worry about, but to help those still trying to improve their score, my problem was I do so much highway driving, very little braking per trip. So this makes more sense as to why it took so long to improve the 2.8% HB from one bad trip. Since that trip I had not used the brakes at all, all regen, the number did not budge after several hundred miles (over 500mi). So I suspected that regen was not counting towards good braking.


----------



## MJJ

In reply to the Braking score and discussion. I agree that regen alone does not count toward braking. And if you are using Standard mode regen and also tap the brake pedal, you will exceed 0.3g. I had good results using the Mild mode regen and gently using the brake pedal more.


----------



## TomT

So, the thought that you will not be dinged for "following too close" if you are on autopilot was debunked last night. I was on autopilot, had a car cut in front of me, and was dinged. Seems unfair but my average is still at 100 so it is what it is...


----------



## MJJ

TomT said:


> So, the thought that you will not be dinged for "following too close" if you are on autopilot was debunked last night. I was on autopilot, had a car cut in front of me, and was dinged. Seems unfair but my average is still at 100 so it is what it is...


The rule has held for me in similar situations. I would consider that you were dinged for something else that you didn't think could possibly have been a violation.


----------



## Tombolian

TomT said:


> So, the thought that you will not be dinged for "following too close" if you are on autopilot was debunked last night. I was on autopilot, had a car cut in front of me, and was dinged. Seems unfair but my average is still at 100 so it is what it is...


Since there is no way to know exactly what triggers the FTC penalty (unless you're @Greentheonly), and since I successfully used AP as a defense mechanism when folks would cut in front of me while I was working on bringing down my FTC score, I have to disagree.


----------



## Long Ranger

TomT said:


> So, the thought that you will not be dinged for "following too close" if you are on autopilot was debunked last night. I was on autopilot, had a car cut in front of me, and was dinged. Seems unfair but my average is still at 100 so it is what it is...


You're referring to Unsafe Following and not Forward Collision Warring, right? UF isn't a one-time ding like FCW. It's based upon accumulated unsafe (< 1sec) vs. safe (1-3sec) following over the entire day. The key is that only manual driving over 50mph counts towards following whether safe or unsafe. If you're going to take a trip entirely on AP, be sure to drive a few minutes manually, over 50mph, at 2-3 sec following gap to rack up some safe following time. Otherwise your entire UF score will be based upon those brief moments between AP engagements.


----------



## TomT

MJJ said:


> The rule has held for me in similar situations. I would consider that you were dinged for something else that you didn't think could possibly have been a violation.


Nope, it definitely said "following too closely" and the time on the graph matched when I was cut in front of...


----------



## StevieC

If I had any idea we were going to have to put up with this ****, I never would have paid the extra $10,000. A month ago I absolutely loved my car, and talked about what a genius Elon was. Now I don’t even want to drive it. 
Today I got a FCW for making a right turn where there is a little island protected right turn lane with a Yield sign, and the SS thought I ran a red light on AP. So after finally getting back to 99 yesterday, I’m at 97.


----------



## FRC

StevieC said:


> the SS thought I ran a red light


No ding for running a red light that I'm aware of.


----------



## skygraff

I’m sure I’m not the first to realize this, but, it occurred to me on a long drive that 4 of the 5 criteria are connected and conflicting:

If you maintain safe following but are cut off, you can choose to do nothing in hopes that the other driver continues to the next lane or has the chance to speed up before incurring an unsafe follow ding but, if that fails, you could incur a forward collision warning for which you can either swerve incurring an aggressive turn, brake incurring a hard brake, or have a forward collision (the latter might ding your insurance but your safety score wouldn’t be impacted like the avoidance maneuvers). Obviously, aggressive turning isn’t directly related but, again, 3/5 of these criteria are based on forward collision avoidance for good or bad. No consideration for side or rear collisions (makes you wonder about the FSD NN and Tesla insurance, eh?) nor, as mentioned previously, are any brownie points given for avoidance techniques (proactive or reactive).

Well, thanks to two long driving days and not too many stupid people (a couple but diluted by miles), my score went up two points. Oh, and those couple still dinged me even though I was on AP.


----------



## r1200gs4ok

I drove to yuma last week on auto pilot......got cut off many times to should I say passing cars pulled back in front of me and I still got dinged.......also, taped the brakes at my driveway and got hit for hard braking......this scoring thing is really F'd up....overall I am still at 99% but the tapped brake in my driveway gave me a 96%


----------



## SystemCrashed

TomT said:


> So, the thought that you will not be dinged for "following too close" if you are on autopilot was debunked last night. I was on autopilot, had a car cut in front of me, and was dinged. Seems unfair but my average is still at 100 so it is what it is...


Luckily, UF is the most forgiving factor. I got dinged in a similar situation, but i realize it counted against me bc I tapped the break, so AP disengaged while i was too close.


----------



## littlD

StevieC said:


> If I had any idea we were going to have to put up with this ****, I never would have paid the extra $10,000. A month ago I absolutely loved my car, and talked about what a genius Elon was. Now I don't even want to drive it.
> Today I got a FCW for making a right turn where there is a little island protected right turn lane with a Yield sign, and the SS thought I ran a red light on AP. So after finally getting back to 99 yesterday, I'm at 97.


Sorry to hear that.

I hope Tesla will consider just making FSD a subscription service only. It turns people like you into Tesla haters.


----------



## NR4P

FRC said:


> No ding for running a red light that I'm aware of.


FCW went off loud and clear when I elected to avoid hard braking and go through the light. First time ever. There was no car anywhere in front of me. I can't find any other explanation.


----------



## NR4P

littlD said:


> Sorry to hear that.
> 
> I hope Tesla will consider just making FSD a subscription service only. It turns people like you into Tesla haters.


Poor customer service in general has turned a few too. I know of one early adopter. FSD has turned out to be a nuisance to many, people can't drive the car they way there were marketed.


----------



## FRC

NR4P said:


> FCW went off loud and clear when I elected to avoid hard braking and go through the light. First time ever. There was no car anywhere in front of me. I can't find any other explanation.


For going through a stop light when it's yellow, I've gotten the loud blaring "take control immediately" red steering wheel. Not the same thing as FCW. No ding.


----------



## r1200gs4ok

just went to service center to get a part and when I was returning, a Porsche got in front of me and I just let off the accelerator and got a FCW....really pissed me off....still at 99% overall but this just like a phantom breaking incident really makes me believe the safety score is a crock of crap......or at least the way in which things are scored......

it is forcing good drivers to over-think everything....IMHO, I feel I am becoming more focused on the visuals and how I am driving, that sometimes I feel I am losing the reality of driving the car, sort of pre-occupied on other things instead of safe driving....even a light tap on brakes causes a hard braking incident......I guess as long as I stay in the 99% range for scores I will get FSD Beta at when released for 99 percenters.


----------



## Achooo

Yeah, I’ve given up on my safety scores. I bought a performance model so I could drive. The car is just too good to not have fun in it for me. FSD will come when it comes. I’ll get the improved, less buggy version once all of you “safe drivers” have ironed out the wrinkles for me. 😁

Until then I’ll live with my safety score in the 80’s.


----------



## littlD

r1200gs4ok said:


> just went to service center to get a part and when I was returning, a Porsche got in front of me and I just let off the accelerator and got a FCW....really pissed me off....still at 99% overall but this just like a phantom breaking incident really makes me believe the safety score is a crock of crap......or at least the way in which things are scored......
> 
> it is forcing good drivers to over-think everything....IMHO, I feel I am becoming more focused on the visuals and how I am driving, that sometimes I feel I am losing the reality of driving the car, sort of pre-occupied on other things instead of safe driving....even a light tap on brakes causes a hard braking incident......I guess as long as I stay in the 99% range for scores I will get FSD Beta at when released for 99 percenters.


And I think we're all missing something with the Safety Score stuff...

Maybe Tesla is also testing where 10.2 can actually be tested at present and not just checking you as a driver.

As FSD gets better, it would then make sense to expand testing to lower scorers who could never achieve a high score because of the drivers around them in their region.

Of course, I might be full of it...


----------



## NR4P

FRC said:


> For going through a stop light when it's yellow, I've gotten the loud blaring "take control immediately" red steering wheel. Not the same thing as FCW. No ding.


I didn't say it was yellow....


----------



## iChris93

I made it to 99 for the next release


----------



## Major Victory

iChris93 said:


> I made it to 99 for the next release


Do we know for almost certain if/when the 99% release will be?


----------



## FRC

Major Victory said:


> Do we know for almost certain if/when the 99% release will be?


Last week Elon said it would be on 10/22; but since he's so reliable, I'd say "who the hell knows"!


----------



## Mr. Spacely

My guess, based on what happened the last two weeks, is about 3am tonight (Friday morning).


----------



## FRC

Mr. Spacely said:


> My guess, based on what happened the last two weeks, is about 3am tonight (Friday morning).


I'm guessing you're off by 24 hrs. 3am ET Saturday morning. Then again, we may both be off by 2 weeks...


----------



## Klaus-rf

FRC said:


> Last week Elon said it would be on 10/22; but since he's so reliable, I'd say "who the hell knows"!


Two Weeks!!
Two Weeks!
...


----------



## Achooo

Klaus-rf said:


> Two Weeks!!
> Two Weeks!
> ...


Two Weeks?


----------



## Derik

I'm never going to get off 96. Autopilot for all of my 45 mile commute today and I get a 60% unsafe following for the 1 min I'm merging onto the freeway. Yesterday I'm driving down the road and a guy slams on his brakes to make a right turn. I'm far enough away but that change of velocity triggered the early collision warning. If I continued at my current speed and direction I wouldn't have hit him. Oh well. FSD will just be better by the time I get to try it.


----------



## All About Jake

Just hit 99 today. I’m ready now for Tesla to move the goalposts. Here to hoping all is on track for Friday!


----------



## iChris93

Anyone have Tesla deleting drives from your history? I had a 99 yesterday when I parked my car and now it shows 98. One day, for instance, that they changed was Sept 29. I had a 100 with 32 miles driven now it shows 99 with 22 miles driven.

Edit: it’s because I’m in the eastern time zone now so those Sept 29th miles after 10 pm moved to Sept 30th.


----------



## Klaus-rf

iChris93 said:


> Edit: it's because I'm in the eastern time zone now so those Sept 29th miles after 10 pm moved to Sept 30th.


That's perhaps the very best reason I've ever heard to eliminate Daylight Savings Time corrections.


----------



## Mrp911

The safety score simulation calculator and other online spreadsheets to calculate tells me I should be 99 with these values but the app says 98. Anyone able to understand if my app calc is right?

i get 98.76 on the spread sheet.


----------



## ras2645

NR4P said:


> You will want to downgrade if you do multiple drives during the day. FCW's go nuts. And they impact your Safety Score, at least for now. Mine started to downgrade and failed and don't want to drive the car until this is corrected.


I went on three drives with fds and no fcw's, I don't have the safety score anymore, went away when I got the beta this morning at 3:30


----------



## Kernal7

NR4P said:


> You will want to downgrade if you do multiple drives during the day. FCW's go nuts. And they impact your Safety Score, at least for now. Mine started to downgrade and failed and don't want to drive the car until this is corrected.


I got 5! FCW warning that should not have occurred. 3 back to back and then about an hour later 2 back to back. All at steady speed traffic with lots of separation distance. I sent them in via the "bug report" feedback function for FSD on the main screen. I then downgraded to 36.5.1 and had no more issues. But I saw that my safety score for the day to a 43 (I did not know they got that low!) and my overall safety score got knocked down from 99 down to 95. Ouch.

I did the calculation, without the 5 FCWs, I would still be at a 99 for the day and 99 overall also.


----------



## Long Ranger

Mrp911 said:


> Anyone able to understand if my app calc is right?


No, you're calculating it wrong. The simulator and that spreadsheet are only good for calculating the score for a single day. Ignore those overall stats for each category shown on the first page. Those are meaningless. You have to look at Daily Details.

To calculate your overall score, just look at your score for each day and the mileage for that day. Multiply daily miles by daily score, add up these totals and divide by overall number of miles. There are many online calculators and spreadsheets, but it's a just a simple weighted average of the rounded daily scores.


----------



## P99GUY

5? How about 5000? I get constant FCW alerts when any car is in front of me even those barely visible on the screen. I was able to maintain 100's and 99's for 28 days and i can bet the score now is 8. I also had my car do Emergency Braking while doing 75 on the freeway for no apparent reason. I still have the steering wheel mark on my face! I immediately hit the camera to send it to Tesla as there was nothing in front of me. I also pulled the video for future use.
If 10.3 was supposed to be better than 10.2 i cannot imagine how bad it was.

I also have a new issue. Using just TACC the camera forces me to look straight ahead at all times, any movement of my head even to glance at the side mirrors disengages TACC in 1 second. It is not possible to use TACC any longer.
{
"timestamp":"2021-10-24T14:37:08",
"city":"Allen",
"est_lat":"33.1305",
"est_lon":"-96.7171",
"reason":"vehicle_auto_emergency_braking",
"camera":"0"
}


----------



## MJJ

After over 2000 miles struggling to get up to 100%, I did a reset and took some fluff drives. I'm now at 150 miles with 100%.

This brings me to two questions:
1. How long after you hit your 100% do you expect to see the upgrade notification?
2. What is this chatter about "Cameras 2.5 needing to be upgraded to use FSD Beta?" I assume since I had my driving computer upgraded to HW3.0, I'll need my cameras upgraded too. But surely the car knows this and wouldn't even offer the trial period for ineligible hardware. I took delivery in October of 2018. How do I know what version my cameras are?


----------



## iChris93

MJJ said:


> 2. What is this chatter about "Cameras 2.5 needing to be upgraded to use FSD Beta?" I assume since I had my driving computer upgraded to HW3.0, I'll need my cameras upgraded too. But surely the car knows this and wouldn't even offer the trial period for ineligible hardware. I took delivery in October of 2018. How do I know what version my cameras are?





iChris93 said:


> Model 3/Y need no camera upgrade, as they came with 2.5+. Only Model S/X that came with 2.0 need it.


----------



## MJJ

Gosh I hope you're right. I was hearing that 2.5 was not good enough either.

Any idea about the TAT for the upgrade?


----------



## garsh

MJJ said:


> I was hearing that 2.5 was not good enough either.


Where?


----------



## MJJ

garsh said:


> Where?


Didn't Elon tweet that last week?


----------



## iChris93

MJJ said:


> Didn't Elon tweet that last week?


No.


----------



## MJJ

iChris93 said:


> No.


Thanks, that's a relief.


----------



## Major Victory

Achooo said:


> Yeah, I've given up on my safety scores. I bought a performance model so I could drive. The car is just too good to not have fun in it for me. FSD will come when it comes. I'll get the improved, less buggy version once all of you "safe drivers" have ironed out the wrinkles for me. 😁
> 
> Until then I'll live with my safety score in the 80's.


Yes, I want FSD now more just to get rid of this cursed nanny score wanker.


----------



## slacker775

So has anyone that hasn’t gotten the beta noticed if any scores > 30 days are rolling off your average?


----------



## Major Victory

slacker775 said:


> So has anyone that hasn't gotten the beta noticed if any scores > 30 days are rolling off your average?


Seemingly futile, lost my 99 last night as my 100 score 30 days ago evaporated. I also wonder how/if the rolling hand will work.


----------



## 2021RedTesla3

Yes, I just had 2 Forced AP disengagements drop off. Mileage driven also decreased.


----------



## MJJ

I have had 100%/100+ mi for 5 days now with no invite. Is it time for me to get my panties in a bunch? Those of you who have the beta, how long did it take for the update to push out once you were eligible? It has been such an unpleasant experience trying to get and stay qualified, I just want to put it behind me.


----------



## iChris93

MJJ said:


> I have had 100%/100+ mi for 5 days now with no invite. Is it time for me to get my panties in a bunch? Those of you who have the beta, how long did it take for the update to push out once you were eligible? It has been such an unpleasant experience trying to get and stay qualified, I just want to put it behind me.


I thought it was 7 day minimum.


----------



## Bigriver

MJJ said:


> I have had 100%/100+ mi for 5 days now with no invite.


In the 2 weeks between the initial 100% invite and the 99% invite, I saw some people on Twitter posting that they got invites a day after reaching the 100 score. I don't know if that was the norm or exception. I know that I had a car with 100% but not enough miles. When I got enough miles, I did not get an immediate invite, but got it along with the 99 group.

I agree that it is a relief to not have to be watching the score constantly.


----------



## MJJ

Bigriver said:


> ...I saw some people on Twitter posting that they got invites a day after reaching the 100 score.


I thought I heard this too, hence all the questions and hand-wringing.


----------



## Bigriver

@MJJ it looks like this is your answer. I take this to mean that not expanding again until next Friday. Am guessing that "98 and above" means no differentiation between 98, 99 and 100 so you can at least relax from maintaining 100, I guess.


----------



## MJJ

Bigriver said:


> @MJJ ...so you can at least relax from maintaining 100, I guess.


Oh yes I can! I *just now* got the email and the update is downloading. Unfortunately this reinforces my notion that it pays to complain


----------



## Kizzy

MJJ said:


> I have had 100%/100+ mi for 5 days now with no invite. Is it time for me to get my panties in a bunch? Those of you who have the beta, how long did it take for the update to push out once you were eligible? It has been such an unpleasant experience trying to get and stay qualified, I just want to put it behind me.


I got to 99% Friday night (day of presumed FSD Beta 10.3 release) after consistently having been at 98 for the week leading up to it. I got the email and update around midnight PT on Saturday night.


----------



## gary in NY

I was at 98, then got dinged for a FCW on a windy back road when a big pick up came the other way. There was never any danger. That, and some bad Nav instructions on day one have knocked my score down. Don’t know whether to risk driving it any further (probably not realistic) for fear of falling further down, especially when the reason is not reasonable.


----------



## MJJ

gary in NY said:


> I was at 98, then got dinged for a FCW on a windy back road when a big pick up came the other way. There was never any danger. That, and some bad Nav instructions on day one have knocked my score down. Don't know whether to risk driving it any further (probably not realistic) for fear of falling further down, especially when the reason is not reasonable.


I've (ahem) heard from a friend that if you opt out & back in, and can keep your 100% long enough to get 100 miles, you'll get rolled in. Sometimes it's better to start fresh.


----------



## Derik

MJJ said:


> I've (ahem) heard from a friend that if you opt out & back in, and can keep your 100% long enough to get 100 miles, you'll get rolled in. Sometimes it's better to start fresh.


If this is true it might be easier to do the 100 and keep it there for 100 miles and 7 days. Those FCW are bogus most of the time, at least for me. I've had 4 of them in the last month, and not once was I ever going to run into the parked car or the guy who cut me off. Before this safety score thing I hadn't had one in months.


----------



## MJJ

Derik said:


> If this is true it might be easier to do the 100 and keep it there for 100 miles and 7 days. Those FCW are bogus most of the time, at least for me. I've had 4 of them in the last month, and not once was I ever going to run into the parked car or the guy who cut me off. Before this safety score thing I hadn't had one in months.


I don't think it necessarily takes 7 days. It didn't for me.


----------



## Derik

MJJ said:


> I don't think it necessarily takes 7 days. It didn't for me.


It is tempting. I'm sitting at a 97 with nearly 1500 miles. Hitting 100 for 100 miles shouldn't be that difficult.


----------



## slacker775

I’m with Derik. I’m on a pretty solid 97 with over 1000 miles. By the calculators, I need a perfect 100 for something like 700-800 miles to round up to 98. If I can opt out and opt back in to restart the clock, I might be able to squeeze a 100 out of a few hundred miles by next weekend.


----------



## Derik

slacker775 said:


> I'm with Derik. I'm on a pretty solid 97 with over 1000 miles. By the calculators, I need a perfect 100 for something like 700-800 miles to round up to 98. If I can opt out and opt back in to restart the clock, I might be able to squeeze a 100 out of a few hundred miles by next weekend.


Mine is saying I need to drive 6704 miles with a perfect 100 to get a score of a 100 now. 163 miles to get to a 98. "Resetting" and driving 100 miles with 100 seems easier.


----------



## gary in NY

Derik said:


> If this is true it might be easier to do the 100 and keep it there for 100 miles and 7 days. Those FCW are bogus most of the time, at least for me. I've had 4 of them in the last month, and not once was I ever going to run into the parked car or the guy who cut me off. Before this safety score thing I hadn't had one in months.


I hadn't had a FCW in about a year! It never occurred to me that it would happen, as I have been able to score 100 almost every drive since day one. My normal travel is pretty rural, although interstate driving is not out of the question. I'd consider a do-over under these circumstances.


----------



## GDN

It is true - opt out and back in. I did this week. I'm at a 100 after 56 miles, but this is crazy what it takes to maintain. I may have to head out around 9 or 10 at night and just go knock out 100 miles on an open road. Congested city streets and the intown major roads are next to impossible. I can't understand what they think hard turning is either. I just made a 12 mile return trip - some negative close following and one hard turn. For the life of me I can't remember of figure out where that came from. Just trying to get through 100 miles and then can drive normal again.


----------



## Bigriver

GDN said:


> I may have to head out around 9 or 10 at night and just go knock out 100 miles on an open road.


Rack up some miles on autopilot. Even in traffic I successfully used AP to keep from getting dings on the safety score.


----------



## iChris93

GDN said:


> I can't understand what they think hard turning is either.


I was never dinged for that 🤷‍♂️


----------



## FRC

iChris93 said:


> I was never dinged for that 🤷‍♂️


I would have thought that it was impossible not to get dinged for aggressive turning. I'm beginning to believe that the algorithm is not applied to all drivers equally. Either that or @iChris93 never uses his accelerator??


----------



## slacker775

I’ve had a few dings for aggressive turns that I can’t understand at all. There have also been a few that I could tell would be a ding but they are just sharp-ish turns in the road that I was taking at normal speed. Overall, those were a minor part of my score. Mostly it was the unsafe following which really is near impossible to perfect on busy roads around here.


----------



## iChris93

FRC said:


> I'm beginning to believe that the algorithm is not applied to all drivers equally.


How and why would it be applied unequally?


----------



## FRC

iChris93 said:


> How and why would it be applied unequally?


Not really meant as a wholly serious statement. But I do find it curious that many of us find it nearly impossible to avoid aggressive turning dings while a few others have no issue. I found that if I drove without safety score in mind, aggressive turning and hard braking were my most difficult areas to avoid.

As to how it could be applied unequally, I surmise that that wouldn't be difficult to achieve. Multiple algorithms would do the trick. Why? Much harder question to answer. Perhaps they're trying out various algorithms to compare validity and usefulness of the data gathered?


----------



## Bigriver

FRC said:


> Either that or @iChris93 never uses his accelerator??


While turning?!!
I'm +1 with @iChris93 with no aggressive turning dings. Following distance with the goofy <1 sec to 1-3 sec ratio was my nemesis.


----------



## iChris93

FRC said:


> I found that if I drove without safety score in mind, aggressive turning and hard braking were my most difficult areas to avoid.


I never did this.


----------



## Kizzy

I live in curvy road territory and hadn’t had any aggressive turning issues until driving on a curvy road I was unfamiliar with. I think it’s circumstance that may bring out the discrepancy.


----------



## Klaus-rf

Bigriver said:


> Rack up some miles on autopilot. Even in traffic I successfully used AP to keep from getting dings on the safety score.


ALL of my FCW "dings" have been with AP engaged.


----------



## Klaus-rf

slacker775 said:


> I've had a few dings for aggressive turns that I can't understand at all.


I've found that ANY speed of u-turn that gets anywhere near close to full lock will credit a ding for an aggressive turn. Just touching the brake pedal doing a y-turn gives a hard braking ding. Don't use the brakes to stop and just doing a rolling bounce between D-R-D gives no dings.

Whomever designed this "Safe Driver" test hasn't driven a car with it enabled.


----------



## SalisburySam

In one 4 mile round trip to-from the doctor’s office I went from 97 to 92. All about braking. Don’t need this…I’m out.


----------



## gary in NY

Checking my score this morning and I was surprised to see that it has jumped up to 99. The reason is that the 30 day observation window is moving, thus my low scoring early days have dropped off the chart. So, we’ll see what happens next update.


----------



## MJJ

You guys who are having trouble with the braking... Do you have regen on Full or Mild? I switched to Mild and my Hard Braking problems were solved. I think with Full regen, just lifting your foot off the accelerator can get you a ding.


----------



## slacker775

MJJ said:


> You guys who are having trouble with the braking... Do you have regen on Full or Mild? I switched to Mild and my Hard Braking problems were solved. I think with Full regen, just lifting your foot off the accelerator can get you a ding.


I really hope this isn't the case, but I worry that there could be some truth to it. There are many trips that I'll do locally where I don't touch the brake at all, but there could be a few occasions where I'm approaching a yellow light where I fully remove my foot from the go-pedal so it slows down fairly sharply - but not uncomfortably so - that may have triggered an occassional hard brake. Fortunately, on my aggregate scores hard braking and aggressive turns really aren't factors so I'm not to worried on that front.


----------



## Derik

So I did my reset yesterday. I’m at 73 miles at 100 so far. I’ll be way past the 100 by the end of the night. So I’ll see if there is any truth to the reset.


----------



## slacker775

I tried opting out, waiting a bit and opting in but my scores remained. Is there a trick to it?


----------



## MJJ

slacker775 said:


> I tried opting out, waiting a bit and opting in but my scores remained. Is there a trick to it?


I'm sure it needs at least a reboot, if not a sleep or full power down (NOT a factory reset :innocent: )


----------



## M3OC Rules

I agree with all the criticisms of the safety score and feel like it was making me drive less safe. But it's interesting that Tesla touted it as a very good predicator of accident prone people in its earnings call. Got a good chuckle out of that.

https://insideevs.com/news/542185/tesla-insurance-safety-score-details/


----------



## GDN

Derik said:


> So I did my reset yesterday. I'm at 73 miles at 100 so far. I'll be way past the 100 by the end of the night. So I'll see if there is any truth to the reset.


I did a reset earlier in the week and just crossed the 100 mile mark, 106 for the last few days and maintained a 99, so a couple of these cases. Will see if they include us.


slacker775 said:


> I tried opting out, waiting a bit and opting in but my scores remained. Is there a trick to it?


If I recall I did a reboot after opting out, the key however is you have to wait until the safety score disappears from your app. Once it is gone, then you can opt back in.


----------



## MJJ

M3OC Rules said:


> I agree with all the criticisms of the safety score and feel like it was making me drive less safe. But it's interesting that Tesla touted it as a very good predicator of accident prone people in its earnings call. Got a good chuckle out of that.
> 
> https://insideevs.com/news/542185/tesla-insurance-safety-score-details/


Tesla is seriously confusing cause and effect with that claim.

edit: I hasten to add that they didn't actually make a claim. But I feel they are hoping the audience will presume one.


----------



## Derik

Well I did 127 miles today with a 100 score. But if it is really the opt out until the score is gone. That means that won’t count.


----------



## garsh

MJJ said:


> Tesla is seriously confusing cause and effect with that claim.


I don't think Tesla cares if a low safety score is due to the driver or just the other drivers/cars you happen to be around.

They don't want FSD Beta put into difficult situations at this early point in beta. So whether you are the cause of your low score or not isn't important.


----------



## bwilson4web

I'm looking forward to a class action lawsuit that not only demands my money back but a penalty for the TSLA stock increase.

The sad thing is success of the lawsuit means Tesla's FSD has failed.

Bob Wilson


----------



## gary in NY

Now that I’m qualified for FSD beta, how often do they send out the update? I could be wrong, but it seems some owners were updating between major releases if they qualified between release dates. I am on 32.22 with no update pending.


----------



## gary in NY

bwilson4web said:


> I'm looking forward to a class action lawsuit that not only demands my money back but a penalty for the TSLA stock increase.
> 
> The sad thing is success of the lawsuit means Tesla's FSD has failed.
> 
> Bob Wilson


If Tesla stopped FSD development at its current level, that could be considered a failure. That doesn't seem likely at this point. I don't think misjudging the development timeline alone would necessarily indicate FSD failure. But what is a reasonable timeline? That would be up to the court to decide.


----------



## iChris93

gary in NY said:


> If Tesla stopped FSD development at its current level, that could be considered a failure.


I wonder how much it has truly improved over the past year.


----------



## mrau

@gary in NY , I had 99 for the past week, no FSD for me. Yesterday I did a two button reset and an hour later I had the FSD update.

Coincidence ?? Don't know. Might be worth a try. I also was on 32.22 before update.

Think I was more excited getting rid of Safety Score than getting FSD. 😀


----------



## GDN

mrau said:


> @gary in NY , I had 99 for the past week, no FSD for me. Yesterday I did a two button reset and an hour later I had the FSD update.
> 
> Coincidence ?? Don't know. Might be worth a try. I also was on 32.22 before update.
> 
> Think I was more excited getting rid of Safety Score than getting FSD. 😀


My thoughts are that they push FSD to each of the new qualifying cars each night, but to set up and be ready for that they do the query early in the day to prepare for the push. So it could be up to 36 hours after you qualify before you get it. Will see as I hit the mark last night late. Hoping that they identify my car as qualifying today and push tonight.


----------



## r1200gs4ok

gary in NY said:


> Now that I'm qualified for FSD beta, how often do they send out the update? I could be wrong, but it seems some owners were updating between major releases if they qualified between release dates. I am on 32.22 with no update pending.


could be......I am having troubles with FSD when I try and turn right......the car does not seem to react to bike lanes and makes a very wide right hand turn cutting off drivers who are in bike lane to turn right......happens all the time and very dangerous.....

also gets confused when lane splits to go left or right......waits too long to make decision an makes a very hard jerky lane change.......


----------



## slacker775

GDN said:


> If I recall I did a reboot after opting out, the key however is you have to wait until the safety score disappears from your app. Once it is gone, then you can opt back in.


This time I waited until the safety score vanished from my app, re-joined the beta queue and after a bit the safety score showed up again with no history so now I have to drive slowly and when there are no other cars on the road so I can maintain a 99+


----------



## MJJ

gary in NY said:


> Now that I'm qualified for FSD beta, how often do they send out the update? I could be wrong, but it seems some owners were updating between major releases if they qualified between release dates. I am on 32.22 with no update pending.


In my admittedly limited experience, 36 hours seems about right, or at least a minimum.


----------



## Klaus-rf

gary in NY said:


> Checking my score this morning and I was surprised to see that it has jumped up to 99. The reason is that the 30 day observation window is moving, thus my low scoring early days have dropped off the chart. So, we'll see what happens next update.


Opposite for me. My first 10 days were all 100's.


----------



## Hdez

After being upgraded to FSD Beta I noticed that the Safety Score Beta is no longer available in the app. It may be a moot point, but I'm just curious to see how well or bad my driving is according to Tesla after the upgrade.


----------



## FRC

Hdez said:


> After being upgraded to FSD Beta I noticed that the Safety Score Beta is no longer available in the app. It may be a moot point, but I'm just curious to see how well or bad my driving is according to Tesla after the upgrade.


Perhaps Tesla removes the safety score after you get beta specifically so you can't see how bad beta is.


----------



## iChris93

FRC said:


> Perhaps Tesla removes the safety score after you get beta specifically so you can't see how bad beta is.


AP doesn't count in the score so I'm sure FSD doesn't either.


----------



## MnLakeBum

I have no idea what my safety score is. I drive fast and have driven 25-45k miles per year for 40 years with only one minor fender bender 20 years ago in heavy traffic in San Fransico. I have zero desire to have FSD on my Tesla.


----------



## Klaus-rf

iChris93 said:


> AP doesn't count in the score so I'm sure FSD doesn't either.


This has NOT been my experience. ALL of my FCW dings have been with AP engaged.


----------



## MJJ

Klaus-rf said:


> This has NOT been my experience. ALL of my FCW dings have been with AP engaged.


You keep saying that, and we still don't believe you 😉


----------



## Derik

Well I’ve driven 200+ miles over the weekend with a 100 score. My average moved up to a 98. I’d need 1100 miles to get to a 99. That isn’t happening any time soon. Tempted to wait until the next push or if it is way to long I’ll opt out and wait for the score to disappear then take a nice drive in the middle of the night.


----------



## Klaus-rf

At least you're listening.


----------



## skygraff

Why do I care about this?!?

As I said, I enrolled simply to see what the system thought of my driving since I don’t need FSD nor will my driving frequency do much for the beta process. Having been a driving instructor and commercial bus driver, I’m confident my driving is safe but, even though it was just an experiment of intellectual curiosity and I know the safety score parameters are flawed, I still follow this thread and keep an eye on my score.

Yesterday, I actually reset the car (at stop lights) three times because I knew the gentle braking I had to apply in response to badly timed light changes (the yellows aren’t calibrated for posted speed limits) would ding my score as hard braking. Of course, what I didn’t realize was that an earlier normal steering maneuver (can’t even recall which one was the culprit) got dinged as aggressive and lowered my score for the day anyway.

Why do I even care?!? As frustrating as it is to placate this flawed safety score thing, my curiosity persists and, since a very low score (bad traffic day with lots of drivers cutting me off resulting in FCWs) will drop off tomorrow, I really just want to see what that one day slate clearing will actually do.

I don’t care about the thing Tesla cares about but, in reality, I’ve turned it into a game and, like most gamers, I’m curious about the cheat codes. So, not going to be frustrated anymore and, after tomorrow, not going to care.

Hope that helps others come to grips with why they may be “caring” about this stupid game even if they’ve no real interest in Tesla’s use of the results.


----------



## Derik

Got my 98 then a FCW that was a good 1000 ft in front of me for a car turning into a shopping complex. I would have had to slam on the accelerator to even think about being close to hitting it. I swear…. Back to 97.


----------



## slacker775

I reset my score on Saturday, managed to get over 100 miles and a 99 score through Monday. Woke up this morning to the ‘we will be pushing FSD beta shortly’ email! So not even 7 days of history required!


----------



## gary in NY

slacker775 said:


> I reset my score on Saturday, managed to get over 100 miles and a 99 score through Monday. Woke up this morning to the 'we will be pushing FSD beta shortly' email! So not even 7 days of history required!


Still not for me. I'm at 99 for for about 5 days, but nothing doing. I keep checking but nothing there.


----------



## GDN

Mine arrived last night as well. ~120 miles with a score of 99. Lunch will be interesting, oh where do I let it take me?


----------



## MJJ

With over 100k miles, probably 80% of those highway+NOA, I feel like I’ve got my money’s worth from the “FSD” package, even though there’s never been any FSD.


----------



## FRC

MJJ said:


> With over 100k miles, probably 80% of those highway+NOA, I feel like I've got my money's worth from the "FSD" package, even though there's never been any FSD.


I agree almost completely with this sentiment. Knowing what I know now, MAYBE I wouldn't have sprung for the $2K upgrade from EAP to FSD. EAP does everything that is currently of significant value in the FSD package. But I did say MAYBE. To avoid FOMO, $2K might have been money well spent.

I do wonder...The folks griping the loudest about FSD, and those who think they a due a refund; How much refund do they actually think would be reasonable? I get the feeling they think Elon owes them $10K. As if there is no value to the FSD features, not included in the basic AP package, that work well. If I bought now, I'd probably have to spring for FSD again because lane change with blinker is almost priceless to me. If there were a successful class action regarding FSD, I'd be in there demanding my $10K; while knowing that, at most, I'm due $2K.


----------



## Stats App

I need only 20 more miles of very careful driving to get to 98 which should qualify my car to get FSD beta this Saturday.


----------



## Derik

I'm glad to see some of the worst days starting to roll off on there. My score went from a 97.5 to a 98.3 from not even driving. 
Hopefully the 98's will end up getting the beta and I can stop worrying about this stuff.


----------



## gary in NY

Klaus-rf said:


> This has NOT been my experience. ALL of my FCW dings have been with AP engaged.


I had three dings (either FCW or Take Over immediately) on AP yesterday while on a 67 mile drive. None of them counted against me. Score for the drive and the day was 100.


----------



## gary in NY

Derik said:


> I'm glad to see some of the worst days starting to roll off on there. My score went from a 97.5 to a 98.3 from not even driving.
> Hopefully the 98's will end up getting the beta and I can stop worrying about this stuff.


I noticed that the drives with my highest mileage have dropped off the sample. I didn't use the car for about fives days, which is about as long as I have had a 99 score-without the FSD beta upgrade. Over the 30 days, I'm well over 100 miles, but I'm wondering if they are only looking back 7 days for mileage. In that case I have been under. Either that, or they have held up on more roll outs. Anyway, I'm going to have over 100 miles this week by Friday, so we shall see.


----------



## RickO2018

Had 98 for a while, then took a 700 plus mile trip, with mixed use of manual, AP and FSD. Congested traffic and defensive driving (hard breaking) lowered my score to 95. After reading about the FSD Beta recall (a reversal to an earlier version) I was happy I wasn't in beta. I opted out and after the car went into deep sleep a few nights, my iPhone app no longer has my score available. May opt back in when I feel the beta has resulted in some decent improvements.


----------



## Klaus-rf

gary in NY said:


> I had three dings (either FCW or Take Over immediately) on AP yesterday while on a 67 mile drive. None of them counted against me. Score for the drive and the day was 100.


If the FCW's didn't show up in your score, they weren't dings. A "Take Over Immediately" isn't a ding and it happens all the time- that's just AP throwing its hands up and hoping there's a human to take over.


----------



## MJJ

I feel like there are a lot of people out there who are thinking "Finally, I can get my FSD feature that I paid for so long ago" by entering the Beta program. And I'm not immune to that myself. But it is hard work to be in the program. You have to be ten times more alert and responsive, because you need to let FSD do its thing, and if (when!) it does the wrong thing, you have a lot less time to react than if you were in control and able to predict your own actions. You also need to be willing to follow up your Snapshots with useful email reports. If you want a product that is "good" or "ready for prime time" you are not a good candidate for beta testing.


----------



## StevieC

littlD said:


> Sorry to hear that.
> 
> I hope Tesla will consider just making FSD a subscription service only. It turns people like you into Tesla haters.


I plan to keep the car longer than the 4.x years for the subscription (assuming no price increases) to reach $10,000. So I'm glad I bought it outright. My gripe is the games we're being forced to play and lack of information about the rollout. 
I'm back to a 98, should be getting it tomorrow. 🙀🤷🏻‍♂️🤠


----------



## StevieC

r1200gs4ok said:


> could be......I am having troubles with FSD when I try and turn right......the car does not seem to react to bike lanes and makes a very wide right hand turn cutting off drivers who are in bike lane to turn right......happens all the time and very dangerous.....
> 
> Those other cars shouldn't be doing that, which is probably why your car is doing that. I got pulled over for doing that. I hadn't seen a bike on the road for two miles before the turn. At least I just got a warning.


----------



## StevieC

Has anyone with a 98 gotten the email yet?


----------



## Long Ranger

StevieC said:


> Those other cars shouldn't be doing that, which is probably why your car is doing that. I got pulled over for doing that. I hadn't seen a bike on the road for two miles before the turn. At least I just got a warning.


Actually, the rules for right turns in bike lane vary by state. In CA it is required to merge into the bike lane before making a right turn, but other states like OR prohibit that.

Regardless though, traffic in the bike lane is not why the car swings left before making a right turn. It does this all the time, nothing to my right.


----------



## Klaus-rf

StevieC said:


> Has anyone with a 98 gotten the email yet?


I managed a 99, got the FSD-BB installed and have not gotten an email from Tesla..


----------



## StevieC

My Safety Score isn’t loading this morning. Getting “Page failed to load. Try again”, even after logging out and back in again. Just a glitch, or precursor to me getting the Beta today?


----------



## FRC

StevieC said:


> My Safety Score isn't loading this morning. Getting "Page failed to load. Try again", even after logging out and back in again. Just a glitch, or precursor to me getting the Beta today?


That is what happened to my safety score AFTER I got beta, but never before that I can recall.


----------



## littlD

FRC said:


> That is what happened to my safety score AFTER I got beta, but never before that I can recall.


We've consistently seen an outage hours before the next beta rollout as the team pulls the VIN list.

I'm looking forward to 10.4.

Word from what I consider a reliable source is several more 10.X releases before V11.


----------



## StevieC

littlD said:


> Word from what I consider a reliable source is several more 10.X releases before V11.


I'm not surprised. Switching to single stack has got to be a bear.


----------



## Derik

StevieC said:


> My Safety Score isn't loading this morning. Getting "Page failed to load. Try again", even after logging out and back in again. Just a glitch, or precursor to me getting the Beta today?


Mine was gone this morning, but it is back now.


----------



## StevieC

Derik said:


> Mine was gone this morning, but it is back now.


Mine too. Maybe they were just pulling scores?


----------



## StevieC

I wonder if 10.4 is coming today like we were told?


----------



## StevieC

Have I lost my mind? Wasn’t FSD 10.4 supposed to be released yesterday?


----------



## iChris93

StevieC said:


> Have I lost my mind? Wasn't FSD 10.4 supposed to be released yesterday?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456796062593781761


----------



## StevieC

iChris93 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456796062593781761


Thanks.


----------



## StevieC

Don’t mind that it’s delayed, just like to know what and when to expect.


----------



## MJJ

StevieC said:


> Don't mind that it's delayed, just like to know what and when to expect.


"Improvements "


----------



## Kizzy

StevieC said:


> Don't mind that it's delayed, just like to know what and when to expect.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1456341817407025152


----------



## StevieC

Anyone with a 98 gotten 10.4 yet?


----------



## iChris93

StevieC said:


> Anyone with a 98 gotten 10.4 yet?


Not coming to 98 for a few days, at least. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1457417472504745990I was one who got it for the first 99 rollout and still haven't seen 10.4.


----------



## StevieC

“We may”. Crap. So I still have to drive like my dead grandmother? 🙄
We’ll be lucky to have it by Thanksgiving. Will I need to give it another 100 miles within the 7 day period of getting it?


----------



## StevieC

His last “next few days” turned into two weeks, and then another two weeks for the 98s. 
His 1000/day and 1000/ hr. doesn’t mean s**t. People are on YouTube that got it Saturday night, and all over Twitter loving 10.4, but Elon has to screw with us.


----------



## gary in NY

StevieC said:


> "We may". Crap. So I still have to drive like my dead grandmother? 🙄
> We'll be lucky to have it by Thanksgiving. Will I need to give it another 100 miles within the 7 day period of getting it?


That's nothing. Wait until you drive with FSD beta. Safety score is just a warm up.


----------



## StevieC

gary in NY said:


> That's nothing. Wait until you drive with FSD beta. Safety score is just a warm up.


I'm not expecting it to be ready for prime time, and looking forward to helping it get there. But at least when I'm not using it, I can go back to driving my car like I actually enjoy it.

Without knowing when they want that 100 miles to be, I feel compelled to drive, worrying about someone cutting me off and giving me an Unsafe Following, or since it's hilly where I live, God forbid I tap my brakes at a downhill stop sign or short yellow light, and get an unsafe braking. I'd hate to lose my 98, because I didn't put on another 100 miles before His Majesty gets around to granting us access. For something I paid an additional $10,000 for!


----------



## gary in NY

StevieC said:


> I'm not expecting it to be ready for prime time, and looking forward to helping it get there. But at least when I'm not using it, I can go back to driving my car like I actually enjoy it.
> 
> Without knowing when they want that 100 miles to be, I feel compelled to drive, worrying about someone cutting me off and giving me an Unsafe Following, or since it's hilly where I live, God forbid I tap my brakes at a downhill stop sign or short yellow light, and get an unsafe braking. I'd hate to lose my 98, because I didn't put on another 100 miles before His Majesty gets around to granting us access. For something I paid an additional $10,000 for!


I was in the same boat. I drove 67 miles the day before I got it, mainly because I had not driven for several days, and the last drives before that were short distances.

Beta can be intense though, but I'm in for testing. Best to keep expectations in check, hands on the wheel and focus on your surroundings when on secondary roads.


----------



## StevieC

It’s ironic. I test drove the VW ID.4 before buying my Tesla. I passed on it because it wasn’t even as much fun as my i3, much less the M3LR I drove. Now with this SS BS, my M3LR w/ Acceleration Boost is even less fun than that ID.4 was! I could have saved a whole lot of money, plus gotten the tax credit. Elon’s got me questioning if I made the right decision now with his stupid games giving us something we paid $10,000 extra for! He tells us Friday. Then it’s Sunday, I get that. 1000/hr! Now it’s Tuesday, still nothing. I see people on YouTube and Twitter bragging how great 10.4 is. So W(here)TF is it?


----------



## FRC

StevieC said:


> It's ironic. I test drove the VW ID.4 before buying my Tesla. I passed on it because it wasn't even as much fun as my i3, much less the M3LR I drove. Now with this SS BS, my M3LR w/ Acceleration Boost is even less fun than that ID.4 was! I could have saved a whole lot of money, plus gotten the tax credit. Elon's got me questioning if I made the right decision now with his stupid games giving us something we paid $10,000 extra for! He tells us Friday. Then it's Sunday, I get that. 1000/hr! Now it's Tuesday, still nothing. I see people on YouTube and Twitter bragging how great 10.4 is. So W(here)TF is it?


If fun is your goal, opt out. Safety score driving is not fun. FSD beta driving is near torture.


----------



## iChris93

StevieC said:


> I see people on YouTube and Twitter bragging how great 10.4 is.


I see it as no better than 10.3.1. In some ways it seems worse.


----------



## littlD

StevieC said:


> It's ironic. I test drove the VW ID.4 before buying my Tesla. I passed on it because it wasn't even as much fun as my i3, much less the M3LR I drove. Now with this SS BS, my M3LR w/ Acceleration Boost is even less fun than that ID.4 was! I could have saved a whole lot of money, plus gotten the tax credit. Elon's got me questioning if I made the right decision now with his stupid games giving us something we paid $10,000 extra for! He tells us Friday. Then it's Sunday, I get that. 1000/hr! Now it's Tuesday, still nothing. I see people on YouTube and Twitter bragging how great 10.4 is. So W(here)TF is it?


I'd suggest not being an FSD Beta Tester and allow others to do that. It's your choice to participate or not.

Enjoy your car and don't worry, there's 16,000+ people working on making FSD Beta ready for production and more when the 98s join the team.

Being a tester and trainer has been a goal of mine since I first purchased my 2018 Model 3. It's not for everyone.

Totally get it, don't let Safety Score steal your joy.


----------



## Madmolecule

I also suggest not being a beta tester. That is best left to the company to develop their product. What I do suggest is the Tesla admit defeat and come up with a solution for us that bought full self driving software over three years ago. Train all you want, tesla is not close to having full self driving without 100% driver attention ready anytime soon and I mean years.

Stop the fantasy uncertainty and Doubt
Pay your damn taxes
admit when you fail
fulfill your contractual obligations or come up with a suitable solution for the tesla long‘s, those of us who invested in the product instead of stock, and I’ve paid for the fantasy, and I’ve created the richest man on the planet. I have no sympathy, I just expect them to deliver. Stop buying fantasy. We have not purchased an investment, I have a three year old battery and a two year old computer, never in the history of technology has this been a recipe for investment appreciation.
Show more love for California that help create you
have success in texas before touting what an amazing place it is.
accept defeat in germany
accept hyper loop failure 
admit cat quest mistake
electrify cuba


----------



## Derik

Got my score up to a 99 now. No resetting required. I'm going to guess I'll still be waiting until whenever the next release is before they add more people. Bring on the torture test. I'm an engineer by day, so I think this will be fun.


----------



## littlD

Derik said:


> Got my score up to a 99 now. No resetting required. I'm going to guess I'll still be waiting until whenever the next release is before they add more people. Bring on the torture test. I'm an engineer by day, so I think this will be fun.


Usually, it's 24-72 hours after you get to 99 with a minimum of 100 miles that you get updated to whatever is the latest FSD Beta Release.

Be watching for 2021.36.8.5


----------



## Derik

Well I’ll see by the weekend then. My score is a 99 with 1500 miles. I drove 98 miles yesterday. I’m not sure I got it to 99 yesterday or it was there before that. I kind of stopped paying attention for the last week.


----------



## Derik

Derik said:


> Well I'll see by the weekend then. My score is a 99 with 1500 miles. I drove 98 miles yesterday. I'm not sure I got it to 99 yesterday or it was there before that. I kind of stopped paying attention for the last week.


Well my car went in for some service today. Looks like it reset my safety score. So I've got to get to 100 miles now.


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## NightStorm

I've given up on this and don't get how 100% is possible esp. as my car makes too many mistakes for me to get above 95%. I get forward collision warnings when approaching cars stopped at a traffic light, today for a pedestrian, and last week got one for a car in the lane to the left of me slowing down. I am assuming these kinds of instances are the source of he unsafe following demerits on my score. Around here I could buy "Unsafe leading" but not "Unsafe following".

I did two test drives where, except as necessary at stop signs and traffic lights, I deliberately stayed way far behind the nearest vehicle. Still got the demerits.


----------



## Bigriver

@NightStorm, the forward collision warnings are not dinging your unsafe following score.

Unsafe following is the only component that I had some trouble with. The problem is that is is a ratio of how often you are within 1 sec of the car in front of you (bad) to within 1 to 3 seconds of the car in front of you (good). All the time that you stay way back (> 3 sec, very good) does not factor into the calculation at all. It also does not consider when you are on autopilot and it doesn't count when you are under 50 mph. A single occurrence of being within 1 sec of the car in front of you when going over 50 mph can give you a very bad score if it didn't have any instance of you within 1 to 3 sec when over 50 mph.

So stay on autopilot any time you are going more than 50 mph and your new drives will stop getting dings to the unsafe following component. Or, rather than staying way back, try to be 2 to 3 seconds behind the car in front. I spent a lot of time counting, trying to gauge exactly where this was, and it's not easy! I recommend the stay on autopilot option.


----------



## Tombolian

Bigriver said:


> @NightStorm, the forward collision warnings are not dinging your unsafe following score.
> 
> Unsafe following is the only component that I had some trouble with. The problem is that is is a ratio of how often you are within 1 sec of the car in front of you (bad) to within 1 to 3 seconds of the car in front of you (good). All the time that you stay way back (> 3 sec, very good) does not factor into the calculation at all. It also does not consider when you are on autopilot and it doesn't count when you are under 50 mph. A single occurrence of being within 1 sec of the car in front of you when going over 50 mph can give you a very bad score if it didn't have any instance of you within 1 to 3 sec when over 50 mph.
> 
> So stay on autopilot any time you are going more than 50 mph and your new drives will stop getting dings to the unsafe following component. Or, rather than staying way back, try to be 2 to 3 seconds behind the car in front. I spent a lot of time counting, trying to gauge exactly where this was, and it's not easy! I recommend the stay on autopilot option.
> View attachment 40518


Up kinda early? I see what you did there...😉


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## Bigriver

Tombolian said:


> Up kinda early? I see what you did there...😉


I think the times show local to you… 4:20 am west coast… 7:20 am east coast….


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## iChris93

Bigriver said:


> I think the times show local to you… 4:20 am west coast… 7:20 am east coast….


🎵It's 4:20 somewhere🎵


----------



## rickleemodel3

I have done some searching about this and can't find anything. Tesla says the Safety Score excludes events that occur when Autopilot is engaged. But just a few days ago, I did a 225 mile roadtrip, 95% of which was highway and with Autopilot engaged. I paid special attention to braking and following because that is where I tend to get dinged when not on autopilot (although my manual SS was 97% in October). At the end of that trip, I had a 95% SS and the ONLY events that I experienced were on AP. So either something is wrong with my AP or something is BS about the exclusions. Anyone else run into this?


----------



## littlD

From my experience of scoring 100 with 832 miles, I always:

1. Set following distance to at least 4 so when I had to disengage AP I'd already have plenty of room
2. More over a lane anticipating someone merging in
3. Let regen braking do all the braking unless unsafe
4. Anticipate yellow lights, even when using Traffic Light / Stop Sign control
5. Use AP whenever the car allows it, not just on highways

I'm already hearing the many voices who are screaming at my post "But that's what I did".

I can only share what worked for me, and that my driving was in Fishers, IN (North Indianapolis Metro Area) and I-69.


----------



## NightStorm

rickleemodel3 said:


> I have done some searching about this and can't find anything. Tesla says the Safety Score excludes events that occur when Autopilot is engaged. But just a few days ago, I did a 225 mile roadtrip, 95% of which was highway and with Autopilot engaged. I paid special attention to braking and following because that is where I tend to get dinged when not on autopilot (although my manual SS was 97% in October). At the end of that trip, I had a 95% SS and the ONLY events that I experienced were on AP. So either something is wrong with my AP or something is BS about the exclusions. Anyone else run into this?


My totally unscientific evidence points to the same. I was at 100% until I started using autopilot. Much of my driving is backroads to get to the highway where I engage autopilot. Not a lot of opportunity for errors on the backroads.


----------



## BobR

I have a score of 97 due to "close following" over the past week since I started I have used Cruise control thinking this would allow for proper distancing. I was wrong, despite the continuous use my score has only moved 1 point up. What distance between cars does the score depend on and why doesn't the cruise determine the proper distance. This does not make much sense. 
I would appreciate any comments on this. 
Thank you
Bob


----------



## Kizzy

BobR said:


> I have a score of 97 due to "close following" over the past week since I started I have used Cruise control thinking this would allow for proper distancing. I was wrong, despite the continuous use my score has only moved 1 point up. What distance between cars does the score depend on and why doesn't the cruise determine the proper distance. This does not make much sense.
> I would appreciate any comments on this.
> Thank you
> Bob


You need to be close (within 3 seconds) but not too close (less than 2 seconds?) to improve close following distance scoring if you got too close to a car during the trip. It's super counterintuitive that keeping further away doesn't count in the measurement-but if you never get close to another car, you never get dinged.

It takes a while to improve overall score with 100 score drives. Are you still getting close following distance dings?


----------



## Stats App

BobR said:


> I have a score of 97 due to "close following" over the past week since I started I have used Cruise control thinking this would allow for proper distancing. I was wrong, despite the continuous use my score has only moved 1 point up. What distance between cars does the score depend on and why doesn't the cruise determine the proper distance. This does not make much sense.
> I would appreciate any comments on this.
> Thank you
> Bob


The algorithm is very sensitive to "following closely". If you have the Stats app, tap on the "Safety Score" button in the app to see information related to how many miles you need to drive to get to the next score. Currently, you need a minimum score of 98 to get the beta (I saw someone reported getting FSD with 97, but that's rare). Good luck. I am at 98 and waiting.


----------



## MJJ

BobR said:


> I have a score of 97 due to "close following" over the past week since I started I have used Cruise control thinking this would allow for proper distancing. I was wrong, despite the continuous use my score has only moved 1 point up. What distance between cars does the score depend on and why doesn't the cruise determine the proper distance. This does not make much sense.
> I would appreciate any comments on this.
> Thank you
> Bob


I believe it is generally accepted that events occurring while the car is "driving" (so, TACC, NoA, etc) do not count against your score. It's gotta be something else.

I struggled for a while with following distance dings too. Finally I decided that my inclination to accelerate while changing lanes to pass was the culprit. If you notice, AP moves sideways first into a passing lane, then accelerates. My way was bringing me too close to the vehicle ahead while the car still considered us to be in the same lane.


----------



## NR4P

BobR said:


> I have a score of 97 due to "close following" over the past week since I started I have used Cruise control thinking this would allow for proper distancing. I was wrong, despite the continuous use my score has only moved 1 point up. What distance between cars does the score depend on and why doesn't the cruise determine the proper distance. This does not make much sense.
> I would appreciate any comments on this.
> Thank you
> Bob


 Short answers. Use AP not just TACC. And, go to your AP following distance settings. Make it 5, 6 or 7. Yes people will cut in front of you but you will avoid dings. And if you are on a 50 mph road, lock in at 49mph, not 50 or higher. Following too close is only at 50mph or higher.

And it will take weeks to move up to 100 if that's your goal.


----------



## LastGas

Bigriver said:


> So stay on autopilot any time you are going more than 50 mph and your new drives will stop getting dings to the unsafe following component. Or, rather than staying way back, try to be 2 to 3 seconds behind the car in front. I spent a lot of time counting, trying to gauge exactly where this was, and it's not easy! I recommend the stay on autopilot option.


That's sure advice for ruining your score. Been there, done that.

Unsafe following is a ratio. A good score requires a small number on top and a big number on the bottom. When you turn on Autopilot you indeed remove close following events, but you accumulate zero safe following too. What happens in practice is that with Autopilot on, you inevitably disengage Autopilot for a moment to do something and there is a brief bit of unsafe following. That little bit is amplified because the divisor is close to zero.

I turned Autopilot off and my score went from the 80's to 100 every time. I got the FSD Beta December 25.


----------



## Bigriver

@LastGas, I got FSD Beta in October, the first week it was open to people based on safety scores. It has been months since I even thought about the safety score. I had driven over 4000 miles during that first scoring period, achieving the 100 score to get FSD Beta. So likewise I guess I can say, been there, done that.

My advice was that I found it easier to stay on autopilot when over 50 mph and never even get any close following dings. That will not ruin a score. It avoids the numerator and denominator game, which I do understand (and I think that my post that you referenced explained quite well. 😏)

I guess that you are saying you had a problem with autopilot deactivating while going over 50 mph. I had a few deactivations as someone might cut over in front of me, but it was not frequent. I agree, that if that happens and you are within 1 sec of the car in front of you after the 3 second grace period, then you need some time off autopilot to rack up 1-3 sec following distances. As I had said, I found it hard to find that 1 to 3 seconds notch, as I usually travel more than 3 seconds behind the car in front of me. For me autopilot helped avoid this part of the game and kept the score high.

Congratulations on joining FSD Beta.


----------



## LastGas

Bigriver said:


> @LastGas, I got FSD Beta in October, the first week it was open to people based on safety scores. It has been months since I even thought about the safety score. I had driven over 4000 miles during that first scoring period, achieving the 100 score to get FSD Beta. So likewise I guess I can say, been there, done that.
> 
> My advice was that I found it easier to stay on autopilot when over 50 mph and never even get any close following dings. That will not ruin a score. It avoids the numerator and denominator game, which I do understand (and I think that my post that you referenced explained quite well. 😏)


As far as the safety score is concerned, when Autopilot is on, you're not driving. That means that all the "easy driving" where you would normally use Autopilot doesn't help your score or influence the percentage. You're only graded when Autopilot is off. And Autopilot is off typically in more difficult situations. Tesla is quite specific on this (https://www.tesla.com/support/safety-score):



> The percentage shown in the app is the *percentage *of manual braking that is done with excessive force *when *driving and *Autopilot is not engaged*.





> Aggressive turning while on Autopilot is not factored into the Safety Score formula. The percentage shown in the app is the *percentage *of turning that is done with excessive force *when *driving and *Autopilot is not engaged*.





> Unsafe following while on Autopilot is not factored into the Safety Score formula. The percentage shown in the app is the *percentage *of unsafe following *when *driving and *Autopilot is not engaged*.





> Driving on Autopilot (including 3 seconds after Autopilot is disengaged) will not be factored into the Safety Score formula


My first drive for the Safety Score was 70 miles on rural highways on a Sunday afternoon, with virtually no traffic. I drove carefully and mildly. Autopilot was on at every opportunity. The score was crushed for hard braking. That's because the only time I was driving was when I had to slow down from 55 to 35 mph going through small towns. My score was 87.

I tried using Autopilot on highways with traffic carefully counting seconds to stay in the sweet spot between 1 and 3 seconds, totally wasting my time because as Tesla says on the Safety Score page, time on Autopilot doesn't count. So when someone cuts in front of me and I brake, or I'm in the wrong lane and I have to squeeze in to make an exit, that's all that counts in the score, not the 100 miles on Autopilot following safely,

I can't explain your good scores, but when I turned Autopilot off, my close following totally went away, the percentage of hard braking evaporated and every drive became 100.


----------



## Bigriver

LastGas said:


> I drove carefully and mildly. Autopilot was on at every opportunity. The score was crushed for hard braking. That's because the only time I was driving was when I had to slow down from 55 to 35 mph going through small towns.


I often drive roads similar to that. Autopilot will auto dial down the speed for those small towns, so I remain on autopilot while driving through them. If for some reason the car wasn't slowing down fast enough, I dial down the max speed, which prior to FSD Beta, used to work great to slow the car quickly.


LastGas said:


> because as Tesla says on the Safety Score page, time on Autopilot doesn't count.


Incidents on autopilot don't factor into the safety score, but the miles do. So autopilot allows you to rack up lots of error free miles with no dings against the safety score. Yes, if you have an incident (while not on autopilot) and need a ratio, then you have to do that without autopilot. But if you never have a problem in the numerator, there is no need to build up good karma in the denominator.



LastGas said:


> So when someone cuts in front of me and I brake, or I'm in the wrong lane and I have to squeeze in to make an exit, that's all that counts in the score, not the 100 miles on Autopilot following safely,


I had several instances like that which I thought would give me a hard brake ding, but they did not. I think the 3 second grace period after autopilot deactivates is meant to cover these situations, and they did for me. I am only recalling one hard braking ding I got and it was on my first drive when the scoring started, which calibrated me to how touchy that metric was. Another reason I wanted to be on autopilot, to let the car do as much of the braking as possible (which is much harder/abrupt than I do).

It's been interesting to me to hear more of your perspective of why autopilot was a hindrance to your safety score. Indeed, it does not let you log what it considers positive behaviors to counterbalance what it considers bad behaviors.


----------



## LastGas

Bigriver said:


> It's been interesting to me to hear more of your perspective of why autopilot was a hindrance to your safety score. Indeed, it does not let you log what it considers positive behaviors to counterbalance what it considers bad behaviors.


In addition to the Safety Score, I also participate in the State Farm Insurance "Drive Safe and Save" program that uses an accelerometer to measure some of the same points Tesla does (but not unsafe following, and it counts speeding, which Tesla inexplicably doesn't). The nice thing about DS&S is that after the drive, they show you a map labeled with the exact location of each safety event.

On my initial 70-mile disaster DS&S showed that the hard braking was invariably in places where there were 55 mph to 35 mph transitions. While you can dial down Autopilot speed, it's not fast.


----------



## JasonF

LastGas said:


> In addition to the Safety Score, I also participate in the State Farm Insurance "Drive Safe and Save" program that uses an accelerometer to measure some of the same points Tesla does (but not unsafe following, and it counts speeding, which Tesla inexplicably doesn't). The nice thing about DS&S is that after the drive, they show you a map labeled with the exact location of each safety event.
> 
> On my initial 70-mile disaster DS&S showed that the hard braking was invariably in places where there were 55 mph to 35 mph transitions. While you can dial down Autopilot speed, it's not fast.


I removed the accelerometer from my car because I thought the behavior patterns it detects were averaged out, but they're not. Electric acceleration has too much torque for it unless you use "hypermile style" and crawl at the slowest speed increase you possibly can, and you have to set regen to "low" because "standard" regen is braking too hard. And it counts up every time you're even 1 mph above the speed limit, so you have to drive _under_ the speed limit all the time to avoid that.

That's all fine, it's what I would expect computer software with strict parameters to do. But then it sends you an email threatening that if you continue your bad behavior, it will impact your insurance rate, and has "suggestions" on what to improve and how many days you have to do it before your rate changes. After that I put the accelerometer in a drawer in my desk. It's not even making anyone a safer driver, it's just punishing people who aren't going to great lengths to game the system and avoid a rate increase.


----------



## LastGas

Yanquetino said:


> I had to chuckle when I saw my first "safety score" from yesterday. It gave me a red 46.1% for "unsafe following." Evidently the scoring factors can't tell when one is in a bumper-to-bumper traffic jam on the freeway, inching along at 2 mph on Autopilot, for nearly an hour, because of a horrible wreck more than 2 miles up ahead.


Unsafe following is only counted when a) you are not using autopilot and b) you're traveling at or greater than 50 mph. So that's not where your bad score came from.
More likely you had Autopilot on all the time except for a brief regular speed bit when you were close and it divided 10 seconds of unsafe following by 20 seconds of safe following and you got hammered.


----------



## LastGas

JasonF said:


> I removed the accelerometer from my car because I thought the behavior patterns it detects were averaged out, but they're not. Electric acceleration has too much torque for it unless you use "hypermile style" and crawl at the slowest speed increase you possibly can, and you have to set regen to "low" because "standard" regen is braking too hard. And it counts up every time you're even 1 mph above the speed limit, so you have to drive _under_ the speed limit all the time to avoid that.


I consistently score between 85 and 92 on the State Farm app, using Autopilot almost all the time. Hard braking is still my weakness. But I got $150 off my last 6-month premium, so life is good.


----------



## Bigriver

LastGas said:


> In addition to the Safety Score, I also participate in the State Farm Insurance "Drive Safe and Save" program


Me too. It was very helpful to diagnose that first hard brake I got early on the safety score. I never would have guessed where it occurred.


LastGas said:


> While you can dial down Autopilot speed, it's not fast.


It's not now, but prior to FSD Beta it was quite fast. That was my normal method for slowing down for stop lights too, when I was the lead car and autopilot was hurtling me towards the red light at an uncomfortably fast rate.


JasonF said:


> And it counts up every time you're even 1 mph above the speed limit, so you have to drive _under_ the speed limit all the time to avoid that


State Farm? Their set point is 8 mph over the speed limit to flag speeding.


JasonF said:


> But then it sends you an email threatening that if you continue your bad behavior, it will impact your insurance rate


Never got one of those. Been on the program for many years.


LastGas said:


> But I got $150 off my last 6-month premium, so life is good.


My agent told me that it is guaranteed not to increase your rate. And I recall that there was even some minimum discount that it would apply just for being a part of the program. I have it on 3 cars with the discount ranging from $4 (probably the minimum discount) to $130, with the smallest discount on the one getting well over 12,000 miles a year and the largest discount on the one that hangs out in the garage the most.


----------



## JasonF

LastGas said:


> I consistently score between 85 and 92 on the State Farm app, using Autopilot almost all the time. Hard braking is still my weakness. But I got $150 off my last 6-month premium, so life is good.


Maybe they finally calibrated it properly for Teslas - I took mine out something like 3 years ago. But I was already stung by the threat of raising my rate for using it, so it's still in the drawer.


----------



## GDN

Bigriver said:


> My agent told me that it is guaranteed not to increase your rate. And I recall that there was even some minimum discount that it would apply just for being a part of the program. I have it on 3 cars with the discount ranging from $4 (probably the minimum discount) to $130, with the smallest discount on the one getting well over 12,000 miles a year and the largest discount on the one that hangs out in the garage the most.


My agent and reading from Google also says it can not be held against you, it can only improve your rates. I switched to State Farm just 3 or 4 weeks ago and let them talk me into it, but I'm stopping by to discuss the discounts again. They had some pretty good rates so we switched then they wanted me to join the Safe driving. So far our score is about 72% and I can promise you driving and EV and enjoying it just a little my score is likely to never improve, so I'm ready to toss them out already. I can be a good driver and take their rates without worrying about every drive I take.


----------



## JasonF

It might be moot anyway - State Farm raised my rates about 20% starting this month over a single windshield claim, so it looks like I’ll be insurance shopping soon.


----------



## MrBill

I had two points knocked off because I was on a forest road and came upon a huge pothole. I was doing a whopping 25 mph but I hit the brakes hard and swerved hard to miss the pothole and got dinged on the score because of it. At least they told me why they deducted two points but there was no way to present my defense. I can easily imagine such things as a kid on a bicycle or a pet running out to the road and that would cause a similar reaction by the program even though hitting the brakes hard would be safer than not hitting the brakes.


----------



## Madmolecule

When will you good drivers train the AI, so the car can start driving me as purchased. 
Almost February and:

No specs on FSD
What is order fulfillment timeline on FSD purchases 
What is City Streets and what is it’s desired functionality (what will the drivers responsibility be?)
What is the anticipated Timeline for nag extension or removal
How does liability work under final, as purchased, FSD
What is the anticipated feature set of advanced summon, will it always be line of sight? Anticipated schedule
when will they release data showing vision only is batter than multi variable criteria control?
when will the release data showing that Teslas are safer and FSD is safer so that insurance is cheaper not more expensive for an automated Tesla.
what is there proposed schedule for submitting to NTSB for FSD approval. Do they plan on a state by state or do they have a plan at all?
will the current 2018 with upgraded computer ever be able to perform FSD, or is it just for bit coin mining like dojo (holding up a chip, does not impress me)
Updated timeline for Robo taxi
uodated timeline for catquest ‘98

I would think the smartest guy in the room and the richest guy on the planet could provide this basic information to us Tesla Longs; the fools that purchased the car and the dream instead of stock.


----------



## Enginerd

Kizzy said:


> It takes a while to improve overall score with 100 score drives.





NR4P said:


> And it will take weeks to move up to 100 if that's your goal.


I suffered a bad score due to an over-sensitive forward collision warning event. My understanding is that there are 2 ways to game the system:

After a known negative event, stop and double thumbwheel reboot with foot on the brake, and those negative marks won't save into your score.
Un-enroll from the program for about a day. Re-enroll, and you start a new score from a clean sheet of paper.
To get myself up to 99 or 100, I thought I could work my way out of a 400 mile trip with a daily score of 97. But when you do the math on that, assuming shorter daily commutes, etc., the only reasonable way to get there is to wait until that bad score falls out of the 30 day window. And BTW, the daily score is weighted by mileage, so those big trips weigh heavy.

I started fresh this week, did a few grandpa-style safe drives, and now with 110 miles and an average score of 100, I'm going to park it until I hopefully get the FSD beta upgrade this weekend.


----------



## KnightRiderKitt

This thread hasn't been too active lately, so I thought I fire it back up. A while back I hadn't driven my MSP for about 3 weeks and my "Safety Score" kept dropping daily.....from 96-97% down to the low 50's. Once I started driving it again, the score began going up fairly rapidly. It took about 2-3 days to go from the low 50's to 98%. That lasted a couple days and then a guy turned in front of me and I got a front collision warning which wasn't even close. This lowered my score to 96%. I've since reduced the sensitivity of the front collision warning so, hopefully, it won't continue to over react.

I've signed up for the FSD Beta Testing, but am not really so sure that I would want to be one of the more active participants in this program, as I am not sure how much I'd use the FSD, especially around town. On the highway and wide open spaces, probably. Really, I am waiting for the day when FSD will actually be usable in the real world. I bought it the day I picked up my MSP, knowing that, as it becomes more perfected, the price will continue to escalate. I am figuring that was a good move since the FSD price has just gone up another $2000 from when I bought it. Also, the price of the vehicle has gone up $5000. Maybe there is something to be said for ordering early and having to wait 6 months for delivery......even though we were chomping at the bit to get it ASAP.


----------



## KnightRiderKitt

Just saw *Enginerd's* post above and like the reboot idea. Next time I have an adverse "event" I'll give that a try.


----------



## Kizzy

KnightRiderKitt said:


> That lasted a couple days and then a guy turned in front of me and I got a front collision warning which wasn't even close. This lowered my score to 96%. I've since reduced the sensitivity of the front collision warning so, hopefully, it won't continue to over react.


The Forward Collision Warning measurement is based on the Medium setting, so if you change to Late, you won't know when you're being dinged for it.


----------



## KnightRiderKitt

Kizzy said:


> The Forward Collision Warning measurement is based on the Medium setting, so if you change to Late, you won't know when you're being dinged for it.


Yes, it was on the Medium setting, and I did change it to Late. The guy turning in front of me wasn't even close (about 40-50 ft. at 30 mph) so, if that's what they base it on, IMO, it's being way too picky. I guess though that when I am playing their game and using their rules, I'll have to learn to live with it or don't play. Now, there's a thought.


----------



## Kizzy

KnightRiderKitt said:


> Yes, it was on the Medium setting, and I did change it to Late. The guy turning in front of me wasn't even close (about 40-50 ft. at 30 mph) so, if that's what they base it on, IMO, it's being way too picky. I guess though that when I am playing their game and using their rules, I'll have to learn to live with it or don't play. Now, there's a thought.


I had a Forward Collision warning with no car near me. It was absolutely a false alarm, though I've had moments where it has saved me, though sometimes I've just been slow to react but not in danger of collision. It's an arbitrary measurement. Running a stop sign is better for your score than to stop suddenly for an unexpected stop. 🤷🏾‍♀️


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## KnightRiderKitt

Kizzy said:


> I had a Forward Collision warning with no car near me. It was absolutely a false alarm, though I've had moments where it has saved me, though sometimes I've just been slow to react but not in danger of collision. It's an arbitrary measurement. *Running a stop sign is better for your score than to stop suddenly for an unexpected stop*. 🤷🏾‍♀️


Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Maybe they'll award you points if you run the stop sign and don't get into a fender bender.


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## Luvtordrive

Where and when do you get a safety score? I got my MYP 2 weeks ago and am wondering when it will “show up” on my app. Is it after a certain amount of driving?

thanks,
Brian


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## shareef777

Luvtordrive said:


> Where and when do you get a safety score? I got my MYP 2 weeks ago and am wondering when it will “show up” on my app. Is it after a certain amount of driving?
> 
> thanks,
> Brian


You need to sign up for the FSD beta in your vehicle.


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