# Charging stations are NOT parking spaces



## Joaquin (Jan 15, 2018)

I was very pissed to see a fellow Model 3 taking up this space in downtown Mountain View charging station...

I was in need of a charge and this guy of course did not have any intention of charging (otherwise he/she would have park backwards).

The signal in the wall says it clearly: for charging ONLY.

Please fellow owners, don't be this guy. Always remember there maybe be someone else in need of a charge.

BTW there were a couple of Model Ss doing the same


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Joaquin said:


> I was very pissed to see a fellow Model 3 taking up this space in downtown Mountain View charging station...
> 
> I was in need of a charge and this guy of course did not have any intention of charging (otherwise he/she would have park backwards).
> 
> ...


YES! Exactly. I have seen this with Tesla owners ALLOT. Especially at the airport. When I drove my Leaf, I needed to charge sometimes and all the spaces would be taken with Teslas parked Head in


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

ICEd by a BEV. 

<soapbox>
This is why public charging generally doesn't work well. There are too many incentives to "misuse" public charging parking spaces.

They tend to be convenient parking spaces. Close to entrances. This is because the electrical hookup is closer too. And you ain't no handicap person, so a non-BEV owner sees no reason why he should let you have the prime parking.
No incentive to move car when finished charging. Especially for workplace charging. I normally don't have to move my car once it's parked in the parking garage. Why should I now have to do so just because my BEV has finished charging?
</soapbox>

Superchargers are usually in a back corner of a parking lot (so not very desirable), and they now charge idle fees if you remain at a busy station, providing an incentive to free up a charger. So Tesla kind of has this problem solved.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

This is why I bought the charging cards from EVANNEX that way if I reach full charge you can grab my phone number to text/call me and I can swing out and move the car if I’ve reach adequate charge level.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

garsh said:


> ICEd by a BEV.
> 
> <soapbox>
> This is why public charging generally doesn't work well. There are too many incentives to "misuse" public charging parking spaces.
> ...


This is where I parked this morning at the airport. Free charging. I will be at 90% in 4 hours. Luckily I come back through here at that time and have an hour layover. So I will go move it. There are technically 6 spaces in this area but 7 cars. That last one is double wide. Only me and one other model S plugged in. The other cars are a Volt, plug in hybrid Pacifica, and 3 more Tesla's, all not charging. Or even faking charging.


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

My soapbox position would be that every parking space should be a charging space, so that you don't have to worry about it


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

But then again why should I move? Just another tesla gonna park there and not charge.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

KarenRei said:


> My
> soapbox position would be that every parking space should be a charging space, so that you don't have to worry about it


That would be ideal. Unfortunately, the J1772 standard results in expensive charging stations.

I know in many colder climates, they'll have outlets at every parking space for plugging in engine block heaters. We could do the same for EVs, and then just require that each EV owner make use of their own portable EVSE to plug in. That would keep things pretty inexpensive for the owner of the parking lot/garage.










Source


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

LUXMAN said:


> But then again why should I move? Just another tesla gonna park there and not charge.


And ideally, you shouldn't have to move. These are parking spaces, not gas stations. The expectation is that you park there until you're ready to leave. Having social pressure to leave as soon as an EV is done charging makes EVs a bit inconvenient.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

garsh said:


> And ideally, you shouldn't have to move. These are parking spaces, not gas stations. The expectation is that you park there until you're ready to leave. Having social pressure to leave as soon as an EV is done charging makes EVs a bit inconvenient.


And I don't have to move. I mean it IS an airport. I just happen to work/fly outta there and happen to be coming back for a short time. Else I would be gone for 2.5 days.
But my real point to these spaces is now that ICE vehicles are finally not parking in them as often as they use too, the EVs are parking there and not even charging. And it is FREE charging. 
Now I plugged in and am gonna get 30%. But I have gotten a 70% charge there before.
But then you could make the case that I have a long range Tesla and shouldn't even park there. True. But if no one else charges their cars there, at least some use will be made of it if I do.
Plus I gotta make back some of the $$ I am paying to park there since the company took away our good parking and want us to pay for open air parking in a state where it hails allot!

Ok. Enough of my rant


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

garsh said:


> That would be ideal. Unfortunately, the J1772 standard results in expensive charging stations.
> 
> I know in many colder climates, they'll have outlets at every parking space for plugging in engine block heaters. We could do the same for EVs, and then just require that each EV owner make use of their own portable EVSE to plug in. That would keep things pretty inexpensive for the owner of the parking lot/garage.
> 
> ...


Indeed. As a plant nut, I'm involved (in an advisory role) in a project to build a series of Biodomes here, and that's exactly the strategy I'm recommending for the parking lot. Keep 'em cheap, keep 'em numerous.  We can post a sign that EV charging is only for customers and if anyone seems to be abusing it then deal with them on a case-by-case basis, if need be. And as EVSEs become cheaper, it's much cheaper to retrofit one to existing wiring than to have to go in after the fact and wire a parking lot. We could start with a few EVSEs, ideally at less desirable parking spaces to reduce the odds of them being ICEd (or BEVed?  ), for those who don't have / don't want to use a portable EVSE.

Supercharger V3 is also very interesting. We were already considering both fast chargers, and having a battery buffer (such as a powerpack) for timeshifting our power usage (and as backup power). V3 could be a 2-in-1 option, which would be great.


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## Runt8 (May 26, 2017)

KarenRei said:


> Supercharger V3 is also very interesting. We were already considering both fast chargers, and having a battery buffer (such as a powerpack) for timeshifting our power usage (and as backup power). V3 could be a 2-in-1 option, which would be great.


I was under the assumption that V3 was just an increase in the amount of power that could be delivered, thereby reducing charging times. It sounds like it's actually more than that?


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

Runt8 said:


> I was under the assumption that V3 was just an increase in the amount of power that could be delivered, thereby reducing charging times. It sounds like it's actually more than that?


Everything that's been said about it so far makes it sound like it's going to include a powerpack of some form, buffering power that it feeds to vehicles. Thus making it easier to pair with a solar farm or to lower demand charges when grid connected.


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## 350VDC (May 20, 2018)

Maybe if we stop seeing these as parking spaces, maybe they will work as they should. There are thousands of other spaces to park, so leave these for airport or other employees, or non-locals that may need to charge, the same thing at a mall or public parking. Plus the spaces that are further away are much better for your health.


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## VBruce (Feb 18, 2018)

Consider automating the charging process. Suppose the parking area is geo-fenced and each BEV has a new form of valet mode, say, _charge_ _valet_ mode that allows the BEV to be driven within the geo-fenced area at a speed not to exceed the parking area speed limit. A queue of uncharged BEVs is formed and as BEVs complete charging they are moved to a free parking space; their location recorded and their now free charging stall is occupied by the car at the top of the queue so that charging can begin. The BEV, in charge valet mode notifies the queue system as to the state of charge. As new BEVs that require charging arrive at the parking area they notify the charging queue system and thereby enter the queue. Initially a charging attendant could manage the BEV queue and record where each charged BEV is parked so that returning drivers can retrieve their BEV. Later as the cars are able to self park, the need for an attendant can be eliminated and the BEV can guide a returning driver to its parking space. This process appears to solve the ICE/BEV occupying charging stalls without charging at the cost of an attendant and changes to BEV software. Are there other solutions or improvements to this process that should be considered?


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## Spiffywerks (Jul 30, 2017)

This, plus FSD to find a parking space after it's charged. Problem solved.


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## NaplesTeslaM3 (Aug 2, 2017)

Florida Statutes specifically address the non-BEV parking problem (especially 366.94 (3)(a) and (3)(b)):

*2012 Florida Statutes*

Title XXVIIRAILROADS AND OTHER REGULATED UTILITIES
Chapter 366PUBLIC UTILITIES*Entire Chapter*
*SECTION 94 
Electric vehicle charging stations.*​*366.94 Electric vehicle charging stations.-*
...
(3)(a) It is unlawful for a person to stop, stand, or park a vehicle that is not capable of using an electrical recharging station within any parking space specifically designated for charging an electric vehicle.
(b) If a law enforcement officer finds a motor vehicle in violation of this subsection, the officer or specialist shall charge the operator or other person in charge of the vehicle in violation with a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as provided in s. 316.008(4) or s. 318.18.
...

This DOESN'T deal with our careless fellow Tesla owners that think these are Tesla PARKING spaces, not CHARGING spaces.


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