# battery packs at service centre



## lance.bailey (Apr 1, 2019)

was at the service centre yesterday at closing when I noticed three battery pack boxes in the drop-off bay. Curious as to why a service centre would need three boxes of battery packs. does a single pack come in three boxes or is there a rash of replacements being done in mynot picking up my car yesterday. corner of the world?


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## Ed Woodrick (May 26, 2018)

Could they have been for different models?

I'd probably guess that it is cheaper to deliver multiple batteries at once than one at a time. I expect that they have to bring in a forklift to offload from the truck.


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## jdcollins5 (Oct 31, 2018)

My understanding is that a single battery comes in three different boxes or crates. Since the battery is assembled in three rows and then connected together, it would make it easier to ship and then can be connected on site.


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## lance.bailey (Apr 1, 2019)

jdcollins5 said:


> My understanding is that a single battery comes in three different boxes or crates. Since the battery is assembled in three rows and then connected together, it would make it easier to ship and then can be connected on site.


cool, thank you.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

jdcollins5 said:


> My understanding is that a single battery comes in three different boxes or crates. Since the battery is assembled in three rows and then connected together, it would make it easier to ship and then can be connected on site.


I find this hard to believe. Tesla generally doesn't want service personnel opening up battery packs - they'd rather replace the whole pack and refurbish the old one at the factory.

Plus, the pack consists of four modules, and they are all placed within a single, large battery enclosure. If you have to ship that large enclosure anyhow, splitting the modules out of it doesn't really help much.


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## lance.bailey (Apr 1, 2019)

FWIW there were three boxes, and one and "2 of 2" (i'm assuming a "1 of 2" was hidden on one of the other boxes).

I took a pic.


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

lance.bailey said:


> FWIW there were three boxes, and one and "2 of 2" (i'm assuming a "1 of 2" was hidden on one of the other boxes).
> 
> I took a pic.
> 
> View attachment 39428


Oh, I think those are the HUDs that the 3s have.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

I started some Google Image spelunking for pictures of Tesla battery crates.
I did manage to find a picture of crates that just had Model S/X modules in them:










But I also found a picture of an open create with an entire battery pack inside.
This looks more like the picture @lance.bailey posted:


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

lance.bailey said:


> FWIW there were three boxes, and one and "2 of 2" (i'm assuming a "1 of 2" was hidden on one of the other boxes).


The "1 of 2" and "2 of 2" might refer to the shipping manifest. The shipping manifest would say something like:

Item Code Description Qty
1 ABC123 Tesla M3 Battery 75kWh 2

Meaning that it's one item of 2 crates, and therefore the crates are labeled "1 of 2" and "2 of 2", to denote that they are two parts of one shipping item.


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## TrevP (Oct 20, 2015)

Tesla does not ship individual modules, only complete battery packs in big crates. They absolutely do not want service personally opening them up, 400 volts KILLS people


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

TrevP said:


> Tesla does not ship individual modules, only complete battery packs in big crates. They absolutely do not want service personally opening them up, 400 volts KILLS people


They generally have protection against that. But, remember how I had my last service and the tech was working too late and damaged the rear glass, trunk, and driver's window? What if that same tech was allowed to muck around with the battery? That's a nasty recipe for a battery fire. If they all come from the factory sealed, there is some chance that it passed through some kind of safety check.

What I would like Tesla to do though is drastically reduce the cost of a battery replacement not by reparing it on site, but by swapping it out with a factory repaired one, and then sending the bad one to the factory to be rebuilt for someone else. This is s feature that's pretty common in the world of gas cars (hence the whole "core charge") and would save Tesla owners a lot of money. They could do the same thing with bad motor assemblies.

They might be planning to do that eventually, but maybe can't now because their production is already so constrained that they don't have the space or personnel to rebuild batteries and motors right now.


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## lance.bailey (Apr 1, 2019)

would they ship them charged up and ready to kill or uncharged?


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

lance.bailey said:


> would they ship them charged up and ready to kill or uncharged?


I believe lithium batteries always have to carry some charge to prevent premature failure, but transportation regulations don't allow them to be shipped new fully charged (I assume the rule with returns is different). So they probably ship with some trace amount of voltage.

What @TrevP referred to though is repairing a battery that is already at the SC might be carrying significant charge and could kill someone if they don't take precautions.


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## gary in NY (Dec 2, 2018)

JasonF said:


> They generally have protection against that. But, remember how I had my last service and the tech was working too late and damaged the rear glass, trunk, and driver's window? What if that same tech was allowed to muck around with the battery? That's a nasty recipe for a battery fire. If they all come from the factory sealed, there is some chance that it passed through some kind of safety check.
> 
> What I would like Tesla to do though is drastically reduce the cost of a battery replacement not by reparing it on site, but by swapping it out with a factory repaired one, and then sending the bad one to the factory to be rebuilt for someone else. This is s feature that's pretty common in the world of gas cars (hence the whole "core charge") and would save Tesla owners a lot of money. They could do the same thing with bad motor assemblies.
> 
> They might be planning to do that eventually, but maybe can't now because their production is already so constrained that they don't have the space or personnel to rebuild batteries and motors right now.


Don't they do this now? I could have sworn I have heard or read that they do this on one of the Tesla news sources I follow. Actually quite some time ago now. This would seem to be particularly true with drivetrains, since most owners report that they they change out the bad one for a "new" (possibly rebuilt) one. I would agree that if they are not, they should be. I'll ask about it at my service appointment next week.


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

gary in NY said:


> Don't they do this now? I could have sworn I have heard or read that they do this on one of the Tesla news sources I follow. Actually quite some time ago now. This would seem to be particularly true with drivetrains, since most owners report that they they change out the bad one for a "new" (possibly rebuilt) one. I would agree that if they are not, they should be. I'll ask about it at my service appointment next week.


Kind of, but what I'm referring to is being given the _choice_ of a refurb battery that's been failed and rebuilt at a much cheaper price vs a new one - because you're trading in the value of your own bad battery to make up the difference. That might make the difference between older Teslas being worthless and financially totaled because of a bad battery, and them still being viable. I'm not familiar with the numbers involved, but let's say it could be $17,000 for a new battery, $12,000 for a refurbished one, but you get an $8,000 core charge to apply to it, so your battery swap would cost $4,000.

As I mentioned, a similar concept exists with ICE vehicles. If you need a new engine, you don't have to pay full price for a new one each time, you can get a refurbished one, and get the price reduced even further by returning yours as a "core charge" so they can attempt to refurbish that one and sell it to someone else.

Yes, I didn't cover recycled junkyard engines, because there are very few batteries from junked Teslas right now. In the future, that option might be available as well.


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

TrevP said:


> Tesla does not ship individual modules, only complete battery packs in big crates. They absolutely do not want service personally opening them up, 400 volts KILLS people


I suspect the difference in voltage between a fully-charged battery pack and a fully discharged one is less than 25 VDC - So fatal either way. And I don't suspect it's a measurable weight difference between full and empty..

IIRC there was a Munroe video a year or so back that indicated the LR Mdl3 battery pack (removed from a car) was just under 1100 Lbs. That's fork-lift material. Although it could probably fit into and be carried a one-ton+. pickup but would probably be easier to load/unload from a semi trailer [with a fork lift].

IIRC Lithium batts cannot be shipped by air.


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## lance.bailey (Apr 1, 2019)

its the volts and amps


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

lance.bailey said:


> its the volts and amps


And batteries are excellent current sources.


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

lance.bailey said:


> its the volts and amps


Seeing as the Minimum Let-Go current for any human is less than 10ma, anything over about 70 volts DC is sufficient to allow that much current (depends on the moisture of the contacting skin). And with DC, there's no possibility of the current reversing or crossing zero volts allowing humans to "let go". 100ma locks the heart muscles closed (engaged?) so no blood is pumping.

400 VDC (less that possible 25) is still beyond fatal when touched. All the battery needs to provide is 100ma and you go dead. Quickly. Unless you only get the power across one hand. Then it just burns and damages nerves and muscles in the hand and arm. But won't kill the heart. Either way you're (or whomever) probably getting an ambulance ride.


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

Klaus-rf said:


> 400 VDC (less that possible 25) is still beyond fatal when touched. All the battery needs to provide is 100ma and you go dead. Quickly. Unless you only get the power across one hand. Then it just burns and damages nerves and muscles in the hand and arm. But won't kill the heart. Either way you're (or whomever) probably getting an ambulance ride.


Usually skin has high enough resistance that if you reach out a poke a 400 volt bus bar, or bump into it by accident, you'll be rewarded with really painful severe burns, but you'll probably survive it - it won't cause your body to wrap around it in a death grip. But obviously don't grab ahold of anything that might have high voltage in it with bare hands, or use metal tools with bare hands.

Severe burns are not an acceptable risk either, so always use the proper protection.


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## android04 (Sep 20, 2017)

A Tesla Model 3 battery pack at low charge is in the upper 200s of voltage. As far as getting 3 crates with 3 packs in, perhaps the service center used up their stock (if they are required to have any in stock) and it was easier to send a shipment with multiple packs at once.


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