# Phantom Breaking



## RayS (25 d ago)

Took awhile to get my MY LR, and now I finally got it. there is one question I have been trying to get to the bottom of: Phantom Breaking from the day I placed my order in April 2022. we are now in 2023. Is that still an issue. I read through so may postings on this subject and got myself thoroughly confused.
Now I have been driving around city streets and highway alike but I am still a bit hesitant to use AP. can anyone out there give me some assurance that AP is safe to use? The last thing I want is someone rear ending me.

Thx guys.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

AP and EAP make driving much safer, not less safe (not so much true with FSD). I have put about 140K miles on my various Teslas, and I'd venture that almost 80% of those miles have been using EAP. No accidents and no close calls. Phantom Braking (not breaking ) is an issue that Tesla has struggled to resolve, although it is very much improved. True phantom braking rarely happens anymore, but it's quite disconcerting when it does. Phantom hesitation, which is a momentary pause in acceleration, seems to be what happens more these days.
Even back when phantom braking was rampant and we continually heard "I would have been rear-ended if anyone had been behind me", I don't recall a single claim of "I WAS rear-ended". AP and EAP will keep you from rear-ending someone else (the real last thing you want to happen). And the rare phantom-braking event will scare the hell out of you, but it won't cause you to get rear-ended. 

AP and EAP are fantastic features of these cars. They make long-distance travel a breeze and make driving much safer. Give it a go, realizing that eventually a phantom braking event is going to scare the hell out of you, but not hurt you. Eventually, you'll learn to be ready to accelerate when these rare events occur. Enjoy!


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## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

In my case, on AP, I have been experiencing repeatable cases of braking at specific locations. Interestingly these brakings happened before and after the radar was removed which seems to indicate that it's vision related. These brakings are often reported (mistakenly) as "forward collision warning". Also during a long trip I noticed that my car would get "nervous" passing tractor trailers. The car would start passing then it would slowdown. Eventually I got tired of this and I would press the accelerator to pass the rig.

And recently, as I was testing FSD on backroads in my area, roads that are well maintained with a visible double yellow line, I had situations where my car very quickly came to a complete halt because of a car coming from the other direction although that car was not infringing on my lane.

During that test, on a similar road, I faced a situation where a large truck clearly driving over part of the double yellow line was coming toward me and my car didn't care a bit and drove past it without slowing down. Go figure.


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## SalisburySam (Jun 6, 2018)

FRC said:


> AP and EAP make driving much safer, not less safe (not so much true with FSD). I have put about 140K miles on my various Teslas, and I'd venture that almost 80% of those miles have been using EAP. No accidents and no close calls. Phantom Braking (not breaking ) is an issue that Tesla has struggled to resolve, although it is very much improved. True phantom braking rarely happens anymore, but it's quite disconcerting when it does. Phantom hesitation, which is a momentary pause in acceleration, seems to be what happens more these days.
> Even back when phantom braking was rampant and we continually heard "I would have been rear-ended if anyone had been behind me", I don't recall a single claim of "I WAS rear-ended". AP and EAP will keep you from rear-ending someone else (the real last thing you want to happen). And the rare phantom-braking event will scare the hell out of you, but it won't cause you to get rear-ended.
> 
> AP and EAP are fantastic features of these cars. They make long-distance travel a breeze and make driving much safer. Give it a go, realizing that eventually a phantom braking event is going to scare the hell out of you, but not hurt you. Eventually, you'll learn to be ready to accelerate when these rare events occur. Enjoy!


Great recap, additional thoughts: as @FRC mentions, it will scare you the first few/several/many times causing concern for the cleanliness of your laundry but for me it quickly generated ire, not fright. Anger at the occurrence, and anger that the problem seemed intractable. It still happens to me 4-1/2 years and 108 software updates later. And the effect on passengers/pets is always much worse neither of which has any expectation that such a thing could happen. Early on it was made very clear to me that TACC, the apparent source of phantom braking, was a no-go if wife was in the vehicle. It has gotten better over time but it has not been eliminated in my car.


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## Ed Woodrick (May 26, 2018)

It's still there, don't worry about it, just be aware of it. 
If it occurs, you can just press the accelerator and don't have to turn FSD off.


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## TomT (Apr 1, 2019)

So, you have a broken phantom?!


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## m3t00 (Nov 23, 2021)

Tesla insurance Safety Score is my main motivation for using FSD/AP/AC. Mostly to keep a good following distance but it takes the drudgery out of keeping it between the lines. Take over before you know it will act badly and be ready to tap the accelerator for phantom braking. I think it's shadows confusing it. Happens in the exact same places usually. never relax. at least until out of beta


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## Georgesb2 (11 mo ago)

RayS said:


> Took awhile to get my MY LR, and now I finally got it. there is one question I have been trying to get to the bottom of: Phantom Breaking from the day I placed my order in April 2022. we are now in 2023. Is that still an issue. I read through so may postings on this subject and got myself thoroughly confused.
> Now I have been driving around city streets and highway alike but I am still a bit hesitant to use AP. can anyone out there give me some assurance that AP is safe to use? The last thing I want is someone rear ending me.
> 
> Thx guys.


When I first got my new 2022 Tesla Model 3 P, it had some terrible behaviors. All of them have been improved, some greatly. 

The most horrific offense was Phantom Braking (PB).
It was a horrible adrenaline rush, the car hitting the brakes very hard for no reason.
I reported it to Tesla Service Center (SC) a number of times and had the cameras recalibrated and the car realigned. The SC said my software was way out of date and they "pushed" updates. 
After time and miles and many, many software updates, I haven't had an event so severe in a very long time. I'd say they improved it. I think only the software updates, over time, was the reason for the improvement, but I can never be certain as I get limited insight and info. 

Alarms
Holy Alarms!
I called and complained that my car would alarm very often! The alarms are quite alarming, pun intended. 
Again after the updates and the realignment, I don't get the nuisance alarm. All alarms now seem genuine and far less frequent. 

Auto Pilot (AP) Issues
I had numerous problems with AP in addition to PB.
One that still remains is that on certain rural roads, even with excellent road lines, clean conditions, etc. it will cross the center yellow line dangerously. I have had the car checked out and serviced by SC, and it hasn't stopped. I am now much more aware of when it happens, and simply don't trust it on right hand curves. Sometimes I take the wheel. 

Another AP issue is late braking and late restarting. 
This is a serious issue and seems to have improved but is still there to some degree.
It would slow down really hard on the brakes AFTER a car crosses in front. The car was safe and didn't need to slow at all and certainly not after the path was clear. 
Then it is EXTREMELY slow to get back up to speed. I did have at least one near accident where a huge truck drove past me on the left, illegally because he didn't expect me to delay resuming speed.


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## SalisburySam (Jun 6, 2018)

Yup, it'll do that.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

On my recent 5000-mile road trip I found a solution to phantom braking. Hyper-mileing! I know this is anecdotal but, for me, following closely behind someone resulted in 0 events after experiencing several in quick succession under more normal driving behavior. I follow with follow distance set to 2, and set speed to 2 mph higher than my leader is travelling. Works like a charm! Thanks for forcing me to tailgate, Tesla!!


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## Rub"Y" (4 mo ago)

Would it work at 3 or 4? Did he have a sticker on his trunk saying...?


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

I didn't try other follow distances. Actually, the 2 setting is far enough back that other idiots still pull into the gap.


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## Ed Woodrick (May 26, 2018)

FRC said:


> I didn't try other follow distances. Actually, the 2 setting is far enough back that other idiots still pull into the gap.


And over a 5,000 mile trip, I hope that it wasn't all stop and go traffic. 
I'd be pissed at you following me on an empty Interstate at distance 2. It's a lot closer than recommended follow distance at Interstate speeds.


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