# Elon says more SW coming !



## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

What fun things will we truly get out of this? And when?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1207865226604863488


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

When is my main question


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

No doubt this is why new stop sign and traffic light graphics were recently discovered.


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## Maynerd (Mar 17, 2018)

Let's go Elon. Christmas is less than a week away!


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

Order page still currently lists the following:

Coming later this year:

Recognize and respond to traffic lights and stop signs.
Automatic driving on city streets
Does a preview constitute feature complete?

Has "automatic driving on city streets" even been remotely defined? Will it make 90 degree turns into another street? Seems like we are a long way off from what I would consider "city driving"


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## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

iChris93 said:


> When is my main question


Who really knows....but he left us with this.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1207916492265680897


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## Ksb466 (Oct 22, 2018)

Any FSD city driving they release now will likely be very Beta, limited to stopping, and not for the faint of heart, but that’s ok, it’s part of a long process. Changing turn lanes and 90 degree turns, with erratic , or very short, street lane markings will result a lot of ping-ponging and aborts early on in this process. I’ll be surprised if they release the later 2 in this release. I look forward to all of them though.


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## slacker775 (May 30, 2018)

Yea, city driving would likely be very ‘primitive’ at this point. Seeing how much highway driving has improved over the year, I won’t hold early issues affect my overall view of things. What would be more worrisome would be the dolts that will treat it as 100% done and create a lot of click bait articles with their foolishness.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

I'll put my money on the city streets and turns being very smooth. With the updates and highway driving improvements we have now they aren't going to release something that is half baked. I think they need those to go pretty well day 1 and is likely why it is taking as long as it is.


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

slacker775 said:


> What would be more worrisome would be the dolts that will treat it as 100% done and create a lot of click bait articles with their foolishness


Many have made the point or asked the question, do you want the feature early with issues, or do you want to wait for it to be fully polished.

In this case I'm thinking fully polished or at least VERY close is the answer. This one could end up very badly for press.

I know they have an early access program but I'm surprised that they wouldn't open it up for sign up if you're a vetted member of a Tesla club or something to get more testers out in the wild


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## wst88 (Oct 31, 2018)

Do you think the FSD preview is going to just be a video in our entertainment group or something more?


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

wst88 said:


> Do you think the FSD preview is going to just be a video in our entertainment group or something more?


I think something more. We've already seen video from their technology day when they went into depths about HW3.0. So I'm hoping. It's a short timeline from his reply. If it is here in time for Christmas, but they are still testing and then they let Early Access have it first, there is only a day or 2 left for each of those steps.


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## motocoder (Sep 16, 2019)

GDN said:


> I'll put my money on the city streets and turns being very smooth. With the updates and highway driving improvements we have now they aren't going to release something that is half baked. I think they need those to go pretty well day 1 and is likely why it is taking as long as it is.


I'll put my money on "city driving" consisting of:

1) Removing the legalese in the notes saying auto-steer is only for divided highways
2) Responding to stop signs and stop lights. Hopefully stopping and resuming, but IMHO more likely it will just warn and require the driver to take over.

I am not expecting actual navigation on city streets (i.e. turns) in this generation of cars.


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## Skione65 (Apr 4, 2016)

airj1012 said:


> Who really knows....but he left us with this.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1207916492265680897


Soooooooo tired of these You Tubers and Podcasters "Jumping the Shark".....anyway...looks like Q1 for us normal folk.

Ski


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## slacker775 (May 30, 2018)

motocoder said:


> I'll put my money on "city driving" consisting of:
> 
> 1) Removing the legalese in the notes saying auto-steer is only for divided highways
> 2) Responding to stop signs and stop lights. Hopefully stopping and resuming, but IMHO more likely it will just warn and require the driver to take over.
> ...


Not sure why you don't think it could handle turns on city streets. Certainly there are more variables, but all of the hardware is there. From what I've seen as far as capabilities, i don't see why it couldn't do it. Now, will it do it perfectly well within 12-18 month to where you bury your nose in a book/youtube while it's doing all of that, we'll see.


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## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

I hope this release isn't HW3 dependent. I've inquired with my service center, but no good news yet.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

motocoder said:


> I'll put my money on "city driving" consisting of:
> 
> 1) Removing the legalese in the notes saying auto-steer is only for divided highways
> 2) Responding to stop signs and stop lights. Hopefully stopping and resuming, but IMHO more likely it will just warn and require the driver to take over.
> ...


Let me clarify, I do not likely believe we will get city streets and* turns* in the holiday edition of SW noted by Elon. I do believe that when they come they will be pretty smooth on first release. I also believe we will get them with this generation of car!


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## MVoccola (Sep 4, 2019)

*Stop Signs & Traffic Lights*
I'm expecting to see AP stop for traffic lights and stop signs, but perhaps require driver input to resume at stops signs and, if no lead car, driver-initiated resuming from traffic lights as well. Driver input being a tap on the accelerator or similar quick action that leaves AP enabled and also helps train the system.

*Driving Visualizer*
Also expect quite a bit more in the driving visualizer. The graphics for improved lane changes in the 2019.40.2.x release notes show a car in the visualizer that is two lanes away. In that same release, the visualizer still only shows cars in the same lane or lanes immediately left/right, so that might have been a slip-up and we could expect that to be included in the next release.


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## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

Maybe it just updated UI to show us what the car can see, but not actually act on any of it. I'm even cool with that. Excited.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

MVoccola said:


> *Stop Signs & Traffic Lights*
> I'm expecting to see AP stop for traffic lights and stop signs, but perhaps require driver input to resume at stops signs and, if no lead car, driver-initiated resuming from traffic lights as well. Driver input being a tap on the accelerator or similar quick action that leaves AP enabled and also helps train the system.
> 
> *Driving Visualizer*
> Also expect quite a bit more in the driving visualizer. The graphics for improved lane changes in the 2019.40.2.x release notes show a car in the visualizer that is two lanes away. In that same release, the visualizer still only shows cars in the same lane or lanes immediately left/right, so that might have been a slip-up and we could expect that to be included in the next release.


My thoughts exactly. Everything is there for stop sign/light driving. Relatively easy transition for most people already used to AP and even those that pickup the car new. I don't see full 90 degree turns happening though. Especially with a good portion of the country going to start running into inclement weather and snowy/icy roads, it'd be a pretty bad time for people to test such a feature.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

IMO, I think with the (hold) release, it in some way is reacting to stop lights and stop signs... at least as you have your foot off the accelerator and coasting up to an intersection. 
maybe a coincidence, but for instance, can come up to two intersections back to back on the same level ground with the same approaching speeds, letting up on the accelerator multiple car lengths earlier/later between the two, and the car magically stops right at the correct spot, just before the painted cross walk or stop bar.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> IMO, I think with the (hold) release, it in some way is reacting to stop lights and stop signs... at least as you have your foot off the accelerator and coasting up to an intersection.
> maybe a coincidence, but for instance, can come up to two intersections back to back on the same level ground with the same approaching speeds, letting up on the accelerator multiple car lengths earlier/later between the two, and the car magically stops right at the correct spot, just before the painted cross walk or stop bar.


I have yet to do this. Are you sure you aren't just better at judging the stopping distance than many of us?


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## Gatica (Oct 25, 2018)

GDN said:


> I have yet to do this. Are you sure you aren't just better at judging the stopping distance than many of us?


I have had a few times that seems like the car knew where to stop at the line, it almost felt like the it applied the brakes or added extra regen to do so.
Either way I want this holiday gift already lol.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

GDN said:


> I have yet to do this. Are you sure you aren't just better at judging the stopping distance than many of us?


nope


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

Quite curious to see how features depend on hardware and options:

Which new features will only work with HW3?

Which new features will only work with FSD?

Note that those are two separate questions!

I have AP and HW 2.5. 

My prediction is that AP (no FSD) and HW 3 will get some of the new features. If the verbiage saying TACC and AP can't be used on city streets is removed, it would be hard for Tesla not to remove it on AP too. It would be uncharacteristically irresponsible for Tesla to allow AP to be used on city streets (in the sense of not geo-fencing it) and yet somehow not pass along safety improvements unless someone had FSD.

When the ability to turn on its own comes, that will definitely be limited to FSD, and probably FSD with HW3.

But the ability to stop for a light while on AP on its own? Again, it seems like a safety issue to deny that to people with HW3 and AP (no FSD).


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

I think they will be very very cautious about any new real driving features for only HW3. They will be setting themselves up for lines at the door wanting the replacement. I think they will get the HW 3 upgrade ramped up and almost done before we see any major driving functionality that depends on it.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

I seem to recall Elon saying that no FSD functionality requiring HW3 would be issued until HW3 updates were done.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

FRC said:


> I seem to recall Elon saying that no FSD functionality requiring HW3 would be issued until HW3 updates were done.


But the traffic cone visualization is out now, and only works with HW3, right?


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

DocScott said:


> But the traffic cone visualization is out now, and only works with HW3, right?


Not an FSD function, it shows up on AP also.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

FRC said:


> Not an FSD function, it shows up on AP also.


Correct.

But it does _not_ show up on AP with HW2.5. Since that's my combination, I can verify that.

As far as I've read, traffic cone visualization only shows up with HW3.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

DocScott said:


> Correct.
> 
> But it does _not_ show up on AP with HW2.5. Since that's my combination, I can verify that.
> 
> As far as I've read, traffic cone visualization only shows up with HW3.


My point was that Elon said no FSD functions until HW3 retrofits. He said no one would miss out on FSD functionality due to the lack of HW3. Traffic cones are NOT exclusive to FSD. Only to HW3.


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## Kizzy (Jul 25, 2016)

MelindaV said:


> IMO, I think with the (hold) release, it in some way is reacting to stop lights and stop signs... at least as you have your foot off the accelerator and coasting up to an intersection.
> maybe a coincidence, but for instance, can come up to two intersections back to back on the same level ground with the same approaching speeds, letting up on the accelerator multiple car lengths earlier/later between the two, and the car magically stops right at the correct spot, just before the painted cross walk or stop bar.


I was noticing something similar as well. It could just be that I've gotten better at judging, but I've not had as much consistency when stopping behind a vehicle and have had to switch to brakes myself. I might have to aim to overshoot and see if the car compensates.


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

MelindaV said:


> IMO, I think with the (hold) release, it in some way is reacting to stop lights and stop signs... at least as you have your foot off the accelerator and coasting up to an intersection.
> maybe a coincidence, but for instance, can come up to two intersections back to back on the same level ground with the same approaching speeds, letting up on the accelerator multiple car lengths earlier/later between the two, and the car magically stops right at the correct spot, just before the painted cross walk or stop bar.


I love it. I've wondered that too at times. And given varying reduced regenerative braking due to a cold battery, I feel there is no way it's just me learning to be that good.


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## motocoder (Sep 16, 2019)

slacker775 said:


> Not sure why you don't think it could handle turns on city streets. Certainly there are more variables, but all of the hardware is there. From what I've seen as far as capabilities, i don't see why it couldn't do it. Now, will it do it perfectly well within 12-18 month to where you bury your nose in a book/youtube while it's doing all of that, we'll see.


I think the current software and hardware is capable of Simulated neural nets for object identification with bounding boxes. Actual human caliber logic needed to make real world driving decisions necessary to navigate turns based on visual data alone and with very low error rates is miles from that. I hope I'm wrong.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

FRC said:


> I seem to recall Elon saying that no FSD functionality requiring HW3 would be issued until HW3 updates were done.


He did not promise that all HW3 upgrades would be completed beforehand. Just that there was no need for those upgrades until FSD features started being made available.


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## cpoole (Feb 22, 2018)

It looks like we'll need HW3...


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## TrevP (Oct 20, 2015)

I'm expecting the FSD sneak peek to be similar to what the visuals were in the autonomy investor day video where it showed more details such as roads, curves etc. I also expect to see street lights and stop signs being detected.

Also, it will require the FSD computer which isn't surprising.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1208477528530268160


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

cpoole said:


> It looks like we'll need HW3...
> View attachment 31301


Bummer, blew my theory out of the water. I believe this would have to mean the upgrades must be starting in mass soon. At least I can hope.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> IMO, I think with the (hold) release, it in some way is reacting to stop lights and stop signs... at least as you have your foot off the accelerator and coasting up to an intersection.
> maybe a coincidence, but for instance, can come up to two intersections back to back on the same level ground with the same approaching speeds, letting up on the accelerator multiple car lengths earlier/later between the two, and the car magically stops right at the correct spot, just before the painted cross walk or stop bar.


I had an opportunity last night to try at two stop signs. One I was pretty sure I was dead on and I was, another I felt I was going to be over and I was, felt no braking at all. the car did nothing to keep me from rolling past the stop line/sign. I've never felt any braking with one pedal driving, unless I moved my foot and add it myself.


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## Jay79 (Aug 18, 2018)

Seems like I'm striking out on all the action. I have the performance so I don't get an option for more power and I paid for FSD but am still on 2.5 so no sneak preview. Hopefully things will catch up to me in 2020 and start to benefit from the extra money I paid


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## slacker775 (May 30, 2018)

If I’m not mistaken, you already have the performance boost that AWDers can buy, so you aren’t missing out there. Like you, I’m also on the long-time-FSD-purchaser train that keeps getting a bit left behind the newer comers. Thankfully, it does look like it’s going to work out eventually. ....Eventually......


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## RichEV (Sep 21, 2017)

TrevP said:


> Also, it will require the FSD computer which isn't surprising.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1208477528530268160


Good news, bad news situation. Good news, some REAL FSD behavior is around the corner! Bad news, the corner might be a long way off for us early-adopter FSD owners without HW3.


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## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

The people on Twitter are very cranky and whiny. I'm glad people here are a bit more grounded. Sure we'd all love to get the retrofit completed today, but we're realistically patient.

Retrofits are being prioritize for Model S and Model X owners first. I believe their retrofit is easier to complete, and its possible that they've been waiting longer than Model 3. Model 3 retrofit has to be done in the service center.

The "problem" here is that they're not building enough HW3 chips. Every new car that goes off the factory floor has the chip. So they have to build in excess to have extras to supply the other 500K+ cars. I'd assume there are similar ramping issues as there were with the cars. Not the same complexities, but something that takes time.

The message most are getting from service centers is that they don't have the chips yet. Its not like they're just being lazy and not wanting to install them. They don't have anything to install!

Some people can complain about not having the chip and how long ago they paid for FSD. Me, I'm just excited! How long have we waited for electric cars? How long have we waited for autonomous type cars? How long have some of us waited to take delivery of our cars after unveils? You can see light at the end of the tunnel, just hold on a bit longer.


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## TrevP (Oct 20, 2015)

Latest news from a friend who claims its Nav on autopilot on city streets


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1208714095123259392


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

TrevP said:


> Latest news from a friend who claims its Nav on autopilot on city streets
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1208714095123259392


I'm skeptical as that's more than a sneak peak. It could also stay in early access for a year like enhanced summon did.


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## TrevP (Oct 20, 2015)

iChris93 said:


> I'm skeptical as that's more than a sneak peak. It could also stay in early access for a year like enhanced summon did.


Elon did confirm that it would go out to early access soon but you're right, timing could be delayed however smart summon shows they have the right parts in place to start limited release of FSD


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1207916492265680897


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## Kizzy (Jul 25, 2016)

TrevP said:


> Latest news from a friend who claims its Nav on autopilot on city streets
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1208714095123259392


NoA on city streets. Hmm. So, like lane changes based on traffic and route following, and maybe stopping at intersections until you push the accelerator? That's my prediction, anyway, based on the given information.


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## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1208840481880150018


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## vinnie97 (Mar 15, 2018)

Meh, realistically Q2 or Q3 then. I don't want to get antsy, and the only reason I'm not too annoyed is my 1-1/2-old vehicle is still under 12k miles.


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## Olds442 (Dec 12, 2018)

i wouldn't be surprised if it is Q1 when we see the upgrades happening. but i'm not too fussed if it happens later though.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

Does any of this require HW3? Doesn't seem like voice and phone improvements should. Possibly signs and road markings(in the same vein as traffic cones). Why the partial screen shot I wonder? I suppose time will tell. But, I'm dying to see camping mode, I'll probably use it more than almost anyone!


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## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

I think this is the release. I was thinking that it was going to be visual only.

Also no information on Camp Mode.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

FRC said:


> Does any of this require HW3? Doesn't seem like voice and phone improvements should. Possibly signs and road markings(in the same vein as traffic cones). Why the partial screen shot I wonder? I suppose time will tell. But, I'm dying to see camping mode, I'll probably use it more than almost anyone!


The FSD visualizations require HW3. Everything else in the update does not.


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> The FSD visualizations require HW3. Everything else in the update does not.


Seems the text feature isn't working on hw2.5 from other reports


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

StromTrooperM3 said:


> Seems the text feature isn't working on hw2.5 from other reports


That's bizarre. Could you link those reports here?


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## slacker775 (May 30, 2018)

There’s no reason that the text messaging feature would require HW3. I did have to enable notifications on the Bluetooth connection to the car on my phone. That may be what others are missing.


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## MVoccola (Sep 4, 2019)

*Stopped Vehicles on Highway with NoAP*
The "fire truck bug" _may_ have made some progress in a good direction with this 201.40.50.1 update:

Was traveling on highway with NoAP enabled this afternoon and approached a police vehicle stopped in the right travel lane with lights on. I signaled to move the car into left lane well in advance, but when approaching the stopped vehicles "adjacent lane speed" kicked in and the visualizer showed AP was tracking the stopped police vehicle. My experience prior to this was that stopped vehicles were ignored when traveling at highway speeds. This behavior left me with the impression that, if I let the situation play out, it would have either suggested a lane change, stopped for, or avoided the stopped police vehicle. Not really something anyone should be testing and if it does work it's unlikely we will ever hear about it, but certainly seemed like it could have avoided some of the recent accidents under similar circumstances, like the one in Connecticut.

*Other Observations*
- Lane changes are more natural feeling but still assertive.
- Merging onto the highway seems slightly smoother. In RI, most of our merges terminate the lane dividers early, leaving a super wide unmarked area, so using turn signal to merge previously was a little sketchy when the car reached the end of the lane dividers, which is where the merge actually happens.
- AP still gets very "nervous" when traveling through wide lanes in highway, such as on/off ramps.
- As others have mentioned, my voice commands were not working at all. It's as if the request times-out but they never implemented an error-handler, so it just sits there.... This resolved itself later today.
- Doesn't seem to be possible to file a bug report via voice command.
- Temperatures were in the upper 30s (f) today and the vehicle did not display limited regen at any time. There was still reduced acceleration at times.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

MVoccola said:


> - Temperatures were in the upper 30s (f) today and the vehicle did not display limited regen at any time. There was still reduced acceleration at times.


If you're driving the vehicle (or maybe even just keeping the vehicle awake), the battery stays warm enough to not have to limit regen much. But if the car has been sleeping and the battery has been allowed to cool down to ambient temperature, then you'll see severely reduced regen even in temperatures as high as the 50s (F).


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

StromTrooperM3 said:


> Seems the text feature isn't working on hw2.5 from other reports


Tesla's servers crashed yesterday. It works just fine with HW2.5. It worked for me in the morning, then stopped working, and now works again.

It's important to note that HW2.5 and HW3 refer to the "Autopilot/Full Self Drive" computer. The text messaging and all other features rely on the MCU.


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> Tesla's servers crashed yesterday. It works just fine with HW2.5. It worked for me in the morning, then stopped working, and now works again.
> 
> It's important to note that HW2.5 and HW3 refer to the "Autopilot/Full Self Drive" computer. The text messaging and all other features rely on the MCU.


Yep appears to be user error setting up the sync and the servers getting overloaded. Another typical fail to understand the demand of feature release as usual

I wouldn't know as I'm still waiting 🤷🏽‍♂️


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