# Performance Model 3 Expectations



## SSonnentag (Mar 30, 2017)

Has there been any confirmation of a performance version of the dual-motor Model 3 or is it all speculation at this point? In the Model S 75, going to the dual motor shaves 0.1 second from the 0-60 times and adds 10 miles to the range. Is it reasonable to expect similar results from the Model 3 dual motor car?

The Model S 100D upgrade to P100D currently adds $42,500 to the price. This astronomical jump in cost for the performance version would make me guess that a similar performance version of the Model 3 isn't likely.

Thoughts?


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

SSonnentag said:


> Has there been any confirmation of a performance version of the dual-motor Model 3 or is it all speculation at this point? In the Model S 75, going to the dual motor shaves 0.1 second from the 0-60 times and adds 10 miles to the range. Is it reasonable to expect similar results from the Model 3 dual motor car?
> 
> The Model S 100D upgrade to P100D currently adds $42,500 to the price. This astronomical jump in cost for the performance version would make me guess that a similar performance version of the Model 3 isn't likely.
> 
> Thoughts?


@Ryan from Ride the Lightning tweeted to Elon and he answered (see below). On Ryan's podcast for this week he guesses at $20k for the upgrade as well.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/891551383903625216


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## AscendedSaiyan (Nov 7, 2016)

It WILL be mine (and a sunroof, if possible)!


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## Ryan (Mar 5, 2016)

I went back later and looked up the "performance tax" on Model S. It is an astounding $42k!!!! [EDIT: At least it was until they tweaked the pricing a bit this week. Still very close!] Or over half the price of the base-model S.

If you apply the same math to the Model 3 (which I doubt is how Tesla actually figures out the pricing, but it's an interesting thought exercise nevertheless), then $20k is once again a bit more than half the base price of the 3. And ~$84k for a PLRD 3 with every box checked (I'm factoring the dual motor into this too) sounds about right. Maybe even between $85k-$90k if you sneak in a couple of extra performance-specific features like 20-inch wheels and a spoiler.

I remain extremely curious to learn more from Tesla. It'll probably be a while, though.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

remember though @Ryan - many people expected whatever option to be a fraction of the S prices because the base 3 is half that of the S, and they are now shocked to realized the options are equal to the price of the S options... so would not count on a break over the price of the S performance upgrade.


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## AscendedSaiyan (Nov 7, 2016)

Ryan said:


> I went back later and looked up the "performance tax" on Model S. It is an astounding $42k!!!! [EDIT: At least it was until they tweaked the pricing a bit this week. Still very close!] Or over half the price of the base-model S.
> 
> If you apply the same math to the Model 3 (which I doubt is how Tesla actually figures out the pricing, but it's an interesting thought exercise nevertheless), then $20k is once again a bit more than half the base price of the 3. And ~$84k for a PLRD 3 with every box checked (I'm factoring the dual motor into this too) sounds about right. Maybe even between $85k-$90k if you sneak in a couple of extra performance-specific features like 20-inch wheels and a spoiler.
> 
> I remain extremely curious to learn more from Tesla. It'll probably be a while, though.


That's pretty much what I planned on, from the beginning. If it's less, great!


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## Jayc (May 19, 2016)

TBH I am skeptical they will do a performance version of Model 3 in the same time frame as AWD. I expect they will do eventually when production settles down and they see steady returns from Model 3 and also I expect they will delay the announcement of P version as much as possible.


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## Model34mePlease (Jun 3, 2017)

Jayc said:


> TBH I am skeptical they will do a performance version of Model 3 in the same time frame as AWD. I expect they will do eventually when production settles down and they see steady returns from Model 3 and also I expect they will delay the announcement of P version as much as possible.


I suspect what is important to Elon and Tesla is to fulfill the promises that were made on the M3 that had a specific time frame specified. Things that were promised but without a specific time frame will move around based on what is in Tesla's interests, in terms of technology, profitability, and opportunity cost.

Keeping the S/X ahead of the M3 in terms of customer perception is important, obviously. Also very important is scaling up manufacturing to M3 demand, whatever that turns out to be. So is moving resources to whatever comes next. Maybe the Y, maybe something else.

This has been, and will continue to be, fun to watch.


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## JBsC6 (Oct 17, 2016)

Mid 5 s are fine. 

Crazy pricing on model S performance upgrades. 

I never expected such pricing but then the competive model is BMW so it makes sense.


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## Ryan (Mar 5, 2016)

MelindaV said:


> remember though @Ryan - many people expected whatever option to be a fraction of the S prices because the base 3 is half that of the S, and they are now shocked to realized the options are equal to the price of the S options... so would not count on a break over the price of the S performance upgrade.


Which is exactly why I carefully qualified my post.


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## JBsC6 (Oct 17, 2016)

The option prices are definitely higher than I expected and they are grouped into packages which I never like to order. 

I'm not surprised or upset as I understand with 400 or 500000 preorders tesla is doing the right thing...it's smart business..

I'm just ordering up less options than I would if the options were available separately but not that much less...

I would have thought tesla AWD would have cost 2500 dollars like it does on the BMW 3 series to move to the IX designation with awd...

The guys on this website or Facebook I can't remember which are suggesting it ll be four grand extra which begins to annoy me but I won't even get the car for my better half if it goes higher and I won't take delivery without awd...

Otherwise this is a pretty little sedan....although the jaguar I pace keeps emailing me to get one of those..

So too many blow me points by tesla and I'll just bail and go I Pace


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## SSonnentag (Mar 30, 2017)

I think the option pricing is fairly decent. The premium package includes a lot of benefits. I guess it doesn't look so nice if you only want a few of the options, but since I like loaded cars, the price seems reasonable. Initially, the $5000 EAP price was the hardest for me to swallow, but after thinking about it I have come to the realization that we are not simply paying for the AP hardware and software, we are also paying upfront for a lifetime of software updates to the AP software. Realistically, we should all have realized that the Model 3, while less expensive than the S/X, is still a fairly high-end car with cutting edge technology. It's not simply an electric Civic.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

SSonnentag said:


> I think the option pricing is fairly decent. The premium package includes a lot of benefits. I guess it doesn't look so nice if you only want a few of the options, but since I like loaded cars, the price seems reasonable. Initially, the $5000 EAP price was the hardest for me to swallow, but after thinking about it I have come to the realization that we are not simply paying for the AP hardware and software, we are also paying upfront for a lifetime of software updates to the AP software.


totally agree with everything (except think I'm the only one here who expected EAP/FSD to be the same price as the S/X). I was actually expecting for what the PUP includes, it would have been priced higher.


SSonnentag said:


> Realistically, we should all have realized that the Model 3, while less expensive than the S/X, is still a fairly high-end car with cutting edge technology. It's not simply an electric Civic.


Or a Chevy Sonic, as the Bolt seems to be


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## swampgator (Mar 26, 2017)

Back to the topic:

Model 3 performance will be targeted directly at BMW M3 specs and pricing. That car starts around 70K but optioned well can run 90K
It does 0-60 in around 4 seconds.
Model 3 P I think will do 0-60 in the low 3's and cost about 85K fully optioned. That is a lot of cash for sure, but try and find a sedan with similar performance for less. Even a Hellcat runs 70K and is a crappy car aside from the acceleration (if you can hook up properly)


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

swampgator said:


> Back to the topic:
> 
> Model 3 performance will be targeted directly at BMW M3 specs and pricing. That car starts around 70K but optioned well can run 90K
> It does 0-60 in around 4 seconds.
> Model 3 P I think will do 0-60 in the low 3's and cost about 85K fully optioned. That is a lot of cash for sure, but try and find a sedan with similar performance for less. Even a Hellcat runs 70K and is a crappy car aside from the acceleration (if you can hook up properly)


So right now a maxed out Model 3 runs $59,500. Throw in AWD for what is likely $5k and you're at $64,500.

I think it's a fair guesstimate to say you're right the car will be in the $80's. Perhaps higher if it comes with other toys ... air suspension, 20" rims, bigger brakes, etc. Who knows....

I think everyone is in for a rude awakening on timing of Model 3 Performance. It could be way out there...


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

It's just day one. The S saw performance tweaks over time, some just in software. Not to mention the actual times proven by magazines etc. Times will probably be closer to 4.4/4.8/5.0/5.5 (performance/AWD/LR/standard)


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## John (Apr 16, 2016)

Jayc said:


> TBH I am skeptical they will do a performance version of Model 3 in the same time frame as AWD. I expect they will do eventually when production settles down and they see steady returns from Model 3 and also I expect they will delay the announcement of P version as much as possible.


I think we only have one-maybe at the most two-quarters of truly "awkward communication" from Tesla. Once Model 3 ramp is well under way, they can start to talk freely about Model 3. They have not said all that they can say about Model 3. With regards to Model S vs Model 3 talk, "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

Model 3 is the realization of much of what Elon, Franz, and JB have been wanting to do. It unabashedly cuts ties to what is expected in a sedan interior. It fixes so many little compromises that remained in Models S and X. It is lighter than expected, as well as more efficient. It is the first program in Tesla's commitment to being a world-class manufacturing company.

There's a good chance that the 3PDL will be a monster, both in terms of efficiency AND performance. And I agree that it will cost something like $84K to get one. But I think by that time, Tesla won't care as much if it eats into Model S sales. Given how close in size the interiors are, and how relatively hard Models S and X are to build, it might make sense to cannibalize them. After all, they do need the factory space, and Model 3 margins are expected to be just as sturdy as current Model S and X margins.

But of course they can't say that stuff right now before they can really make them in volume.

So if something has seemed "off" in the way that Tesla has been communicating about Model 3, not quite as enthusiastic and open as they have been in the past, I'd suggest that that is not a permanent state of affairs. Well, that's my opinion at least.


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## EValuatED (Apr 29, 2017)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> So right now a maxed out Model 3 runs $59,500. Throw in AWD for what is likely $5k and you're at $64,500.
> 
> I think it's a fair guesstimate to say you're right the car will be in the $80's. Perhaps higher if it comes with other toys ... air suspension, 20" rims, bigger brakes, etc. Who knows....
> 
> I think everyone is in for a rude awakening on timing of Model 3 Performance. It could be way out there...


Agree prices for optioned-up configs climb rapidly but there was this tweet from Elon that gives hope adding AWD itself won't be as expensive as with Model S/X. We'll see in a few months.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

EValuatED said:


> Agree prices for optioned-up configs climb rapidly but there was this tweet from Elon that gives hope adding AWD itself won't be as expensive as with Model S/X. We'll see in a few months.
> 
> View attachment 2853


That's a good point. I assumed the same after what we saw with other options, but the new motors may have better economies of scale and thus better pricing for the consumer.


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## SolarPro (Aug 5, 2017)

The base 85 S is 5.4s 0-60, but the P85D is 3.2s 0-60. I think a performance version of the Model 3 will be at around 3 seconds and make it a really incredible machine that would blow away an M3. That's coming from a big BMW fan. 

I've been struggling with whether to wait for the performance spec and miss out on the rebate or just get the LR and be happy with $30k I saved. Or just go get a CPO P85D for $76k... if only it had full self driving capability


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## rjhoskins (Apr 9, 2017)

Tyler Nelson said:


> The base 85 S is 5.4s 0-60, but the P85D is 3.2s 0-60. I think a performance version of the Model 3 will be at around 3 seconds and make it a really incredible machine that would blow away an M3. That's coming from a big BMW fan.
> 
> I've been struggling with whether to wait for the performance spec and miss out on the rebate or just get the LR and be happy with $30k I saved. Or just go get a CPO P85D for $76k... if only it had full self driving capability


I'm in the same boat. Every day I go back and forth---get the long range +rebate and be happy or wait for the performance and get the Model 3 version that I wanted when this whole thing started. My son who is 11 and a huge Tesla fan says, "Get the long range now (spring '18 according to mytesla page) and then trade up to the performance version when it's released." He has a valid point!


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## SolarPro (Aug 5, 2017)

rjhoskins said:


> I'm in the same boat. Every day I go back and forth---get the long range +rebate and be happy or wait for the performance and get the Model 3 version that I wanted when this whole thing started. My son who is 11 and a huge Tesla fan says, "Get the long range now (spring '18 according to mytesla page) and then trade up to the performance version when it's released." He has a valid point!


We've had that same exact thought as well. You'd need two reservations to do so, which we do have. Resale of the Model 3 should still be pretty good.


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