# FSD appreciating the value of my car vs. Insurance?



## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

History:

I purchased my Performance Model 3 with FSD ( $3k) and EAP ($5k).

Now the price for FSD is sitting at $10k. 

Question:

I'm wondering if my insurance is going to cover FSD with a price increase that they didn't know about if my car is totaled. What do you think?

If the price of FSD goes up to $20k at some point.....will insurance automatically cover an "appreciating" car?


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Not only no, but h e double hockey sticks no. Insurance as we know it today will not. Maybe someone will create special rider's for things like this, but it doesn't exist today that I'm aware of. 

If you bought a car last year for $35K and wreck it, and to replace it the identical car went up to $40K with no changes, insurance isn't going to pay you the $40K. Maybe, again, something like a special rider that guarantees replacement value, but that doesn't happen on a car. You only typically get depreciation, which is in the favor of the insurance company.


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## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

GDN said:


> Not only no, but h e double hockey sticks no. Insurance as we know it today will not. Maybe someone will create special rider's for things like this, but it doesn't exist today that I'm aware of.
> 
> If you bought a car last year for $35K and wreck it, and to replace it the identical car went up to $40K with no changes, insurance isn't going to pay you the $40K. Maybe, again, something like a special rider that guarantees replacement value, but that doesn't happen on a car. You only typically get depreciation, which is in the favor of the insurance company.


Interesting....

My car was hit from the rear and the initial estimator that came out wanted to total the car. I told the insurance company that I had an additional $8k associated with the car through software so that pushed up the value of my car to where they then repaired it. They said something about - to total a car....the repair costs have to be a certain value of the car ... and that the software pushed up the value of the car......etc.

The insurance company that changed their mind is Bristol West ( insurance of the lady who hit me ).

This is my accident.


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

Totally depends on what kind of insurance you have. The most common (for streert vehicles) is Fair Market Value. Anything similar in miles, year, options is close enough for insurance work. Usually low-ball values.

Replacement Value is usually referred to as the value that it would cost, at retail used car rates, to purchase a like-kind vehicle (year, model, options, etc.). Check with your ins co to see what they offer.

Agreed Value is usually the highest value and most common for collector cars, non-primary transportation cars, etc. You state what your vehicle is worth, the ins co agrees and you pay premiums based on that value. Not usually available for "Daily Drivers".


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## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

Klaus-rf said:


> Totally depends on what kind of insurance you have. The most common (for streert vehicles) is Fair Market Value. Anything similar in miles, year, options is close enough for insurance work. Usually low-ball values.
> 
> Replacement Value is usually referred to as the value that it would cost, at retail used car rates, to purchase a like-kind vehicle (year, model, options, etc.). Check with your ins co to see what they offer.
> 
> Agreed Value is usually the highest value and most common for collector cars, non-primary transportation cars, etc. You state what your vehicle is worth, the ins co agrees and you pay premiums based on that value. Not usually available for "Daily Drivers".


Do you think its possible for the current common to become uncommon due to Teslas?

There are a lot of things becoming "new norms" because of Tesla.


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

Garlan Garner said:


> Do you think its possible for the current common to become uncommon due to Teslas?
> 
> There are a lot of things becoming "new norms" because of Tesla.


 Absolutely NOT, IMHO. We're talking profitable business model changes here. One will need to change to companies that offer Replacement Value policies. And perhaps expect to pay a bit ore.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

I have been wondering this very question myself. To the extent that EAP/FSD are simply options on a car, I would expect them to be considered in the comparable options for the replacement value. But as FSD could have been purchased afterwards, it isn’t exactly the same as typical options.

I only have one experience with a car having been totaled (ah the joys of parenting teenagers) and I thought the insurance compensation for it was more than generous. We ended up not replacing the car, but if we had, we could have easily done so with the money they gave us.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

I'll just add that 3rd parties do not understand FSD and Tesla themselves doesn't value it at trade-in, so despite the price going up $2k this week it's not really driving your existing car's value up. I don't anticipate it will drive used car values up until Level 4/5 is functional and out in the hands of the public. Even still, I think it'd have to go up more than $2k to do anything tangible for you otherwise a buyer could just find the same car without FSD and upgrade on their own.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

I think that if I total my 2018 P3D with FSD and 70K miles and you total your 2018 P3D with AP and 70K miles and with have the same insurance carrier, our insurance checks will be identical. In other words, State Farm is NOT going to pay me extra for my FSD.


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## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

FRC said:


> I think that if I total my 2018 P3D with FSD and 70K miles and you total your 2018 P3D with AP and 70K miles and with have the same insurance carrier, our insurance checks will be identical. In other words, State Farm is NOT going to pay me extra for my FSD.


No difference in a totaled car check from the insurance company?

Do you think thats the way it should be?

or

Are you just saying..."thats the way it is right now?

I can tell you for sure that because FSD and EAP ( at a value of $8k) was on my maroney sticker....they didn't total my car. The value of FSD and EAP saved my car from being totaled.

The more valuable FSD becomes.....I want it insured and covered in a totaled situation.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

Garlan Garner said:


> No difference in a totaled car check from the insurance company?
> 
> Do you think thats the way it should be?
> 
> ...


"New car replacement" is not a standard and not all carriers even offer it. As FSD appreciates conceivably a new car costs more and more, but if your policy doesn't cover new car replacement then you aren't getting any help toward that additional cost if you total your car.

Also, while on the topic of insurance. If your car is relatively new and you financed (you're upside down on the loan), most people don't even carry gap insurance and thus if their car is totaled not only are they not getting any value out of the "appreciation" of FSD, they're not even getting enough money to pay off their loan.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> "New car replacement" is not a standard and not all carriers even offer it. As FSD appreciates conceivably a new car costs more and more, but if your policy doesn't cover new car replacement then you aren't getting any help toward that additional cost if you total your car.


I wasn't thinking of this in context of new car replacement, but that with Tesla raising the price of FSD for all cars that do not currently have it, that it could be increasing the value of used cars that already have it.



FRC said:


> I think that if I total my 2018 P3D with FSD and 70K miles and you total your 2018 P3D with AP and 70K miles and with have the same insurance carrier, our insurance checks will be identical. In other words, State Farm is NOT going to pay me extra for my FSD.


So if a SR+, LR AWD and Performance of the same age and mileage walked into a bar.... I mean, were all totaled in a crash.... would they be valued differently? I think they have to be because the used market comparables the insurance adjuster uses should be different. Likewise, to the extent that FSD increases your car's value on the used market, it should be reflected in an increased payout if it were totaled. And I would note that for those of us with 2018's, this isn't just a software upgrade but it is also a hardware upgrade.



Garlan Garner said:


> I can tell you for sure that because FSD and EAP ( at a value of $8k) was on my maroney sticker....they didn't total my car. The value of FSD and EAP saved my car from being totaled.


I'm not sure if that's a win. If my car is in a bad enough accident that whether it is totaled or not is even being considered, I would be pushing to get it declared totaled. When it comes time to sell it, I much prefer the car with no accidents on the record.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

Bigriver said:


> I wasn't thinking of this in context of new car replacement, but that with Tesla raising the price of FSD for all cars that do not currently have it, that it could be increasing the value of used cars that already have it.


That's the dream that Elon sells.

First and foremost if you are trading it in, it seems clear that Tesla doesn't value it. Obviously for them they can take the same used car without FSD and flip a 0 to a 1 and boom the car has FSD.

Private party ... sure. If you find a buyer that wants FSD and knows it is now $10k and you paid $8k, then you probably have some support against the depreciation hit.

Ultimately it's all theory and that's the challenge. Whether you trade in or sell private there isn't a breakdown of value by option and so it's all blended anyway.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> Ultimately it's all theory and that's the challenge. Whether you trade in or sell private there isn't a breakdown of value by option and so it's all blended anyway.


Totally agree this is mostly theory. But also, this thread is in context of what insurance would pay out. And that is not the same thing as trade-in value.

Going tangential... I recently got a trade-in quote from Tesla for my 2018 AWD with FSD with about 19,000 miles. It was $42.2k. Very similar car was listed in Tesla used inventory for $50k. After tax credit, my effective purchase price 2 years ago was about $57k. Current new car with same options is $58k. These numbers all feel pretty much in line to me, without separating the effect of different options.


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## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

Bigriver said:


> I wasn't thinking of this in context of new car replacement, but that with Tesla raising the price of FSD for all cars that do not currently have it, that it could be increasing the value of used cars that already have it.
> 
> So if a SR+, LR AWD and Performance of the same age and mileage walked into a bar.... I mean, were all totaled in a crash.... would they be valued differently? I think they have to be because the used market comparables the insurance adjuster uses should be different. Likewise, to the extent that FSD increases your car's value on the used market, it should be reflected in an increased payout if it were totaled. And I would note that for those of us with 2018's, this isn't just a software upgrade but it is also a hardware upgrade.
> 
> I'm not sure if that's a win. If my car is in a bad enough accident that whether it is totaled or not is even being considered, I would be pushing to get it declared totaled. When it comes time to sell it, I much prefer the car with no accidents on the record.


One of the reasons I selfishly wanted to keep my car from being totaled is because I have unlimited free supercharging.

Secondly....my accident was expensive and not full of a lot of damage. Have you seen it?

https://teslaownersonline.com/threa...nity-kemper-insurance-in-ga.17090/post-295810

It really wasn't that bad....it was just that Tesla's were/are extremely expensive to repair. The parts are very expensive for some reason.


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## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> "New car replacement" is not a standard and not all carriers even offer it. As FSD appreciates conceivably a new car costs more and more, but if your policy doesn't cover new car replacement then you aren't getting any help toward that additional cost if you total your car.
> 
> Also, while on the topic of insurance. If your car is relatively new and you financed (you're upside down on the loan), most people don't even carry gap insurance and thus if their car is totaled not only are they not getting any value out of the "appreciation" of FSD, they're not even getting enough money to pay off their loan.


You are exactly correct. Many people DON'T carry gap insurance. Maybe they just don't know about gap.

I switched insurance companies because my old insurance company didn't offer it.

My question is not related to a new car. My current 2 year old car is getting more expensive to replace. Its appreciating...so I'm asking if I should up my insurance on it.


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

Garlan Garner said:


> You are exactly correct. Many people DON'T carry gap insurance. Maybe they just don't know about gap.
> 
> I switched insurance companies because my old insurance company didn't offer it.


 Iirc GAP insurance comes from the loan company, not from the collision / comprehensive insurance companies.


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## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

Klaus-rf said:


> Iirc GAP insurance comes from the loan company, not from the collision / comprehensive insurance companies.


That's not totally correct.

Allstate calls it New Car Replacement or Accident replacement. I went over and over and over it with them to make sure that it functions exactly the same as gap insurance.

That's what I have.

https://www.allstate.com/tr/car-insurance/new-car-insurance.aspx

Below is the paragraph that explains the coverage if you don't want to read through the site.

*Loan or lease gap coverage.*
Gap insurance may help pay the difference between the amount owed on an auto loan or lease and the totaled car's actual cash value. Even if your car can no longer be used, you're still responsible for any remaining loan or lease payments. So if the reimbursement check from the insurance company is not enough to cover what you owe, gap coverage may help pay for the remaining amount on a loan or lease - so you won't be stuck paying for a car that is now in the scrap yard.
Driving a brand new car can be a lot of fun, but having to replace one might come with some unexpected expenses - especially since the average cost of a new vehicle is more than $36,000. If you have a new car, you may want to consider new car replacement coverage, repair provision coverage and gap coverage, or a package that includes these coverages.


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

I have very fortunately never had to total a car and get a replacement. I know the result of that varies from case to case, but I was always under the impression that the insurance company would at best only pay off the car loan, and then you would have to start over, buying a replacement car as if it were new, with no value left from the last car to speak of.

That would mean in the case of a financed Tesla, you either would have to come up with a new down payment out of pocket matching the initial down payment, or deal with a much higher monthly payment on the new one. Which for some people might become out of reach, and they'll be forced back to _shudder_ an ICE vehicle.

Jokes aside, I guess I'm wondering, based on those who had experience with it - is this actually the case, or an unfounded fear born of dealing with insurance companies over a decade ago that used to pay out basically "scrap value" for a totaled car?


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

JasonF said:


> I have very fortunately never had to total a car and get a replacement. I know the result of that varies from case to case, but I was always under the impression that the insurance company would at best only pay off the car loan, and then you would have to start over, buying a replacement car as if it were new, with no value left from the last car to speak of.
> 
> That would mean in the case of a financed Tesla, you either would have to come up with a new down payment out of pocket matching the initial down payment, or deal with a much higher monthly payment on the new one. Which for some people might become out of reach, and they'll be forced back to _shudder_ an ICE vehicle.
> 
> Jokes aside, I guess I'm wondering, based on those who had experience with it - is this actually the case, or an unfounded fear born of dealing with insurance companies over a decade ago that used to pay out basically "scrap value" for a totaled car?


Typically, for a totaled vehicle, your insurance policy is going to pay the fair market value(FMV) of the vehicle at the time of loss. Your loan amount has no bearing on this WHAYSOEVER. One issue that arises is determining the FMV of your car. Even if you have added nothing to your car since purchase, insurance will likely offer an amount somewhat less than what actual FMV is. You don't have to accept this offer, and if you can prove a higher value you can likely get a larger payment from insurance.

Things get a bit sketchier if you have made improvements to your car. For instance; EAP, FSD, and acceleration boost added after purchase. These kind of things add some value to your car, but may have no bearing on an insurance payout if your carrier did not know of them and/or never had an opportunity to charge you additional premiums for them.

None of this should be confused with GAP insurance which is basically designed to payoff any shortfall between the FMV that insurance will pay, and your loan balance. And what GAP insurance will cover may vary widely from carrier to carrier, policy to policy.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Agree with @FRC, they do not look at the loan. In fact in that situation they don't even need to know what your pay off is, it is none of their business.

I had a truck stolen 2 years ago. It was a fight, but I got another $4K from their first estimated value. They asked if it was financed I told them it was none of their business. The truck was at a Ford dealership when it was stolen, so ultimately their insurance company paid.


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

FRC said:


> Typically, for a totaled vehicle, your insurance policy is going to pay the fair market value(FMV) of the vehicle at the time of loss. Your loan amount has no bearing on this WHAYSOEVER.


What I was aiming at is this: I put down a pretty decent down payment that took me 2 years (since the first week of pre-order) to set aside part of, plus my previous car was sold to Carmax to make an even better down payment. It earned me a somewhat more reasonable monthly payment with the financing. If I trade up in 8-10 years, there will still be enough value left in the car to make for a decent down payment on what will arguably be a lower-priced EV by then (assuming Elon Musk sticks to his plan of bringing the base prices down) or at least be able to afford more car than I could have otherwise.

The way I understand it, with a standard ICE car that depreciates quickly, if something happens and your car is totaled, all of that is gone. You would get maybe enough to pay off the loan, if you're lucky, and you would have to buy a new one from scratch, having no pre-saved down payment and no previous trade-in. Which means a much higher monthly payment, and a chance that the bank won't finance it at all because it's a higher amount and a lower down payment.

So my question would be, in the experience of people who have had a Tesla totaled, do you generally get into that same situation? Or do they hold their value enough that it's nothing to worry about?

Also, back when I got my Tesla in 2018, none of the insurance companies in Florida offered gap insurance, stating that I had to get it from the dealer or loan provider (Tesla and Wells Fargo didn't have any, either). I don't if that's changed since then.


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## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

I understand what everyone is saying - however I posted Alstates policy offering which includes gap insurance. 

Ladies and Gentlemen we are talking about Alstate who isn't like everyone else. Sound familiar? This is a Tesla forum right? Does Tesla do things like everyone else? If anyone should be used to this business practice...it should be us. 

Is Alstate different than other insurances - absolutely. Its not standard that insurance companies offer gap insurance. I called around all over the place to find GAP insurance because the bank wouldn't provide gap insurance. 

State Farm - no
Geico - no
Farmers -no
etc - no

Alstate - YES. 

You can call them for yourselves.


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## Lightrod (Aug 24, 2018)

FRC said:


> Typically, for a totaled vehicle, your insurance policy is going to pay the fair market value(FMV) of the vehicle at the time of loss. Your loan amount has no bearing on this WHAYSOEVER. One issue that arises is determining the FMV of your car. Even if you have added nothing to your car since purchase, insurance will likely offer an amount somewhat less than what actual FMV is. You don't have to accept this offer, and if you can prove a higher value you can likely get a larger payment from insurance.
> 
> Things get a bit sketchier if you have made improvements to your car. For instance; EAP, FSD, and acceleration boost added after purchase. These kind of things add some value to your car, but may have no bearing on an insurance payout if your carrier did not know of them and/or never had an opportunity to charge you additional premiums for them.
> 
> None of this should be confused with GAP insurance which is basically designed to payoff any shortfall between the FMV that insurance will pay, and your loan balance. And what GAP insurance will cover may vary widely from carrier to carrier, policy to policy.


I wonder how much that impacts their decision to total a car. I have seen some companies offer an option to their policies that pay additional 10 to 20 percent over fair market value of the car to help cover the cost of buying a new car.


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

Lightrod said:


> I have seen some companies offer an option to their policies that pay additional 10 to 20 percent over fair market value of the car to help cover the cost of buying a new car.


 Yes, some auto insurance companies do this - for an additional fee (USAA, for example). if you play it right, and everything works out in your favor, you just might break even and be able to buy a similar condition, previously-owned car. New is usually way out of range.

Some ins companies also offer new car replacement if totaled in first year. Also, for an additional fee.

The common thread here is that if there's easy money on the table [for the insurance companies] that some people will pay, insurance companies will offer the "service".


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## Jason F (Jul 6, 2018)

If you were to ever hope to get the value of a software option that increases in price, you would have to add that to your policy and pay a higher premium every time its value goes up.


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## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

Jason F said:


> If you were to ever hope to get the value of a software option that increases in price, you would have to add that to your policy and pay a higher premium every time its value goes up.


Indeed your premium would go up. Mine went up by 2.20 per month to cover FSD.


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## Tmo6 (Jul 3, 2018)

Garlan Garner said:


> Indeed your premium would go up. Mine went up by 2.20 per month to cover FSD.


Which insurance company do you have that covers FSD? Sorry if I missed it in the prior posts! 😁


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## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

Tmo6 said:


> Which insurance company do you have that covers FSD? Sorry if I missed it in the prior posts! 😁


I have Allstate. I used to have Geico and my Model 3 was in an accident to where Geico wanted to total it without replacing any features such as FSD. This is what Geico called a totaled Model 3.










I went to Allstate for 2 reasons.

1. They gave me a promise in writing to cover my car loan in case my car is totaled. The plan is called "Total Accident Replacement".
2. They gave me a promise in writing to cover everything on my Maroney Sticker - In Name.

In Name means that they will replace whatever came with the car - no matter what it costs right now.


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## Madmolecule (Oct 8, 2018)

It is crazy paying extra for insurance for a feature that should minimize risk. Once they get FSD figured out I don't think you will be able to afford to insure a driver without it. Until then I guess the insurance companies are charging extra for unknown risk. I am also concerned that since Tesla is trying to get in the insurance game they are purposely punishing Tesla owners. Whatever the reason it would be great if Tesla would provide some time of re-insurance backstop to the big carriers to show that they have confidence in FSD and that it really reduces insurance liability. This would protect them from the unknown


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

Madmolecule said:


> It is crazy paying extra for insurance for a feature that should minimize risk. Once they get FSD figured out I don't think you will be able to afford to insure a driver without it. Until then I guess the insurance companies are charging extra for unknown risk. I am also concerned that since Tesla is trying to get in the insurance game they are purposely punishing Tesla owners. Whatever the reason it would be great if Tesla would provide some time of re-insurance backstop to the big carriers to show that they have confidence in FSD and that it really reduces insurance liability. This would protect them from the unknown


It costs more to insure because it costs more to replace. I see nothing more here than that.


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## Madmolecule (Oct 8, 2018)

My company, Liberty, also charges more just due to the fact that I have FSD, and the perceived risk. It is certainly more risk than an $8,000 stereo upgrade to a vehicle. At least that is what my agent told me. Mine is up in March and will be looking for another carrier


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Madmolecule said:


> My company, Liberty, also charges more just due to the fact that I have FSD, and the perceived risk. It is certainly more risk than an $8,000 stereo upgrade to a vehicle. At least that is what my agent told me. Mine is up in March and will be looking for another carrier


I dumped Liberty shortly after I got my Tesla. The premiums they are charging are ridiculous.


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

Madmolecule said:


> My company, Liberty, also charges more just due to the fact that I have FSD, and the perceived risk. It is certainly more risk than an $8,000 stereo upgrade to a vehicle. At least that is what my agent told me. Mine is up in March and will be looking for another carrier





garsh said:


> I dumped Liberty shortly after I got my Tesla. The premiums they are charging are ridiculous.


I dumped LibMu as well when I got my 3.


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## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

Madmolecule said:


> It is crazy paying extra for insurance for a feature that should minimize risk. Once they get FSD figured out I don't think you will be able to afford to insure a driver without it. Until then I guess the insurance companies are charging extra for unknown risk. I am also concerned that since Tesla is trying to get in the insurance game they are purposely punishing Tesla owners. Whatever the reason it would be great if Tesla would provide some time of re-insurance backstop to the big carriers to show that they have confidence in FSD and that it really reduces insurance liability. This would protect them from the unknown


Paying insurance for a feature has nothing to do with risk.

I pay my insurance company to cover FSD in case my car is totaled. I want my insurance company to cover FSD and they do.


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## Madmolecule (Oct 8, 2018)

I totally disagree. Insurance is based on risk. Most features do not drive the car. If the insurance company does not have a history of how that feature performs they will assign extra risk to it. In fact since the history of the teslas we are paying more because it is electric vehicle and insurance companies dI’d not know the true risk of electric vehicles. So we are paying more for insurance just because the car is electric and then we are paying even more because it has a feature that will drive the car for you allegedly. We are paying for it even though it has not been released yet. I do not believe insurance companies give their customers the benefit of the doubt. That is not how they work. When I first got mine they were not sure if they would catch fire or if you were get electrocuted when it rained. Insurance companies have never been good pricing for new risk. It cost more than sure my model three then an $80,000 Audi. But like I said I will be changing insurance companies and hopefully well fine they’re not all like liberty mutual. I love my model three but to act like there’s not many extra costs in being a pioneer to me it’s just standard shilling. The bleeding edge is always expensive and that includes insurance


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## Nom (Oct 30, 2018)

If define risk as comprising a factor related to probability of adverse event and a factor related to the magnitude of the event’s impact (e.g., cost), then any potential cost associated with the adverse event is part of defining the risk. So if FSD is part of coverage it is part of defining risk.

some could say it is also part of the event probability factor as well.


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## Madmolecule (Oct 8, 2018)

I feel that is the only reason Tesla is getting in the insurance game is that they do not believe the other insurance companies can properly assess the risk of an electric vehicle and especially a vehicle with full self driving. Other than that I really don’t see the connection, the insurance industry isn’t something that I think Elon can add a lot to. It hasn’t typically been in his technological wheelhouse. To me it’s kind of like buying cyber insurance now. The insurance companies are selling it, they don’t really know the liability, but they certainly don’t wanna lose on the gamble.


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## Garlan Garner (May 24, 2016)

Madmolecule said:


> I totally disagree. Insurance is based on risk. Most features do not drive the car. If the insurance company does not have a history of how that feature performs they will assign extra risk to it. In fact since the history of the teslas we are paying more because it is electric vehicle and insurance companies dI'd not know the true risk of electric vehicles. So we are paying more for insurance just because the car is electric and then we are paying even more because it has a feature that will drive the car for you allegedly. We are paying for it even though it has not been released yet. I do not believe insurance companies give their customers the benefit of the doubt. That is not how they work. When I first got mine they were not sure if they would catch fire or if you were get electrocuted when it rained. Insurance companies have never been good pricing for new risk. It cost more than sure my model three then an $80,000 Audi. But like I said I will be changing insurance companies and hopefully well fine they're not all like liberty mutual. I love my model three but to act like there's not many extra costs in being a pioneer to me it's just standard shilling. The bleeding edge is always expensive and that includes insurance


That's not true.

Insurance is based on repair costs. Bugatti's are just as much as risk as Prius' when driving on the road.

Insurance companies are FULLY aware of the risk of EV's. Tesla's have been out for almost 10 years now.

EVs are no longer new.

The repair costs of Tesla's are high. Extremely high. I can personally prove that.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Madmolecule said:


> Insurance is based on risk.





Garlan Garner said:


> That's not true.
> 
> Insurance is based on repair costs.


It's based on both.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

Garlan Garner said:


> That's not true.
> 
> Insurance is based on repair costs. Bugatti's are just as much as risk as Prius' when driving on the road.
> 
> ...


Interestingly enough my $60k Model 3 costs less to insurance than the $33k Hyundai Sonata it replaced with the same insurance provider and same exact coverage.


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

garsh said:


> It's based on both.


Or you could say repair cost is a risk.


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

Garsh is right - insurance rates are based both on risk and repair costs. The way you can tell which is affecting you more is look at the "collision" rate - if it's much higher than normal, then your rate is higher purely because of repair costs. If just uninsured motorist/liability coverage is overly high, it's mostly risk. But if both are high, that's a combination of both.

The car I had before this was a Mitsubishi, which people in Florida tend to buy used, race, and crash fairly often. The insurance rate I paid for it was about 25% higher than what I pay now simply because of the rate at which all insurance companies had been totalling them, but the cars are not particularly expensive to repair.

As the agent told me, the State Farm rate for Model 3 here has kept creeping down because overall, very few people are crashing them in this area, and most of those aren't being totalled. Of course being Florida, that can change very suddenly if there are a couple of bad hurricanes - because then you get a lot of flood totalled Model 3's all at the same time.

By that logic, I believe the California Model 3 owners are seeing their rate increase drastically both because the number of Model 3's on the road there have increased the chance of one crashing and being totalled, and also because they're being targeted for vandalism and theft.


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## Madmolecule (Oct 8, 2018)

I just cant wait until FSD will get us the equivalent of a safe driver discount. The rate is also based on past driving record. The problem I see is that past driving performance might not be an indicator of ability to manage a full self driving or driving assisted vehicle. With justified apprehension to the new yoke it is conceivable that some might not be as talented with a automated vehicle. We are also the first vehicle owners in history that are not only running "Beta" software on the roads, but this beta software is driving the vehicle. One can only assume that by clicking on Beta we are reducing Tesla's liability, I just hope it doesn't limit the insurance companies liability . If the car runs over some people in autopilot has got to be an additional concern to an insurer. 

I was first very excited about the Tesla insurance, but now I am concerned that the other carriers might battle the new competitor. Historically they have pretty much split the market to keep control. I was amazed that Buffet even gave up on his attempt to get in the insurance market. This is why I felt it would be better for owners if Tesla would provide a reinsurance backstop to existing providers. This would minimize the risk and only keep it to replacement cost.


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## StevieC (Jun 1, 2021)

My auto policy offered new car replacement, which is only good for three years. We chose Stated Value and pegged it at what we paid fir the car. We can keep that longer.


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## StevieC (Jun 1, 2021)

Klaus-rf said:


> Iirc GAP insurance comes from the loan company, not from the collision / comprehensive insurance companies.


You can also get gap from your insurance carrier, if they offer it. It will likely be cheaper than from the lender. It was automatically included on my car insurance at no additional cost.


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## StevieC (Jun 1, 2021)

StevieC said:


> My auto policy offered new car replacement, which is only good for three years. We chose Stated Value and pegged it at what we paid fir the car. We can keep that longer.


We were able to increase the agreed value of our car on our insurance to include FSD. If I total my car, I get what I paid for the car, including the FSD, PPF clear bra, and ceramic coat.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

StevieC said:


> We were able to increase the agreed value of our car on our insurance to include FSD. If I total my car, I get what I paid for the car, including the FSD, PPF clear bra, and ceramic coat.


How much did this increase your insurance premium?


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## StevieC (Jun 1, 2021)

Bigriver said:


> How much did this increase your insurance premium?


Surprisingly, it didn't.


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## Koonus (Nov 30, 2020)

I had a similar situation when a Toyota crashed into me. I originally bought my Tesla for $30,000, but it cost $35,000 this year. I thought the insurance was based on today's prices, but no, it turned out to be worse than that. Of course, who would doubt that the insurance company wouldn't charge you. This insurance company, I don't want to name it so as not to publicize it, screwed me and my car. Now I have switched to another insurance company that a friend recommended. Within a month, I had already had an accident. They hit me again, I was not at fault. Good thing the current insurance company didn't try to cheat me, and they paid me my money.


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## ig0p0g0 (Apr 27, 2018)

I think deductibles and stated value are at opposite ends of the risk spectrum.

A lower deductible, say $100 instead of $500 has a large effect on your premium because the insurance company knows that in almost any collision they will have to pay $400 more.

A higher value, say a stated value of $80000 instead of FMV of $60000 doesn’t cost much because most claims are not totals and the insurance company knows that the cost of repair will rarely exceed $60000.


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