# Upgrade idea



## B.Silva (Sep 30, 2018)

How many people have done the $2000 acceleration upgrade? My car (LR AWD) is eligible but I haven't done it. A friend of mine has, and says he's glad he did.

Perhaps Tesla should have a "Try before you buy" program? They could enable the upgrade for a week and at the end of that period, turn it off. If it really is great, I bet a whole lot of people end up buying it. It's a risk-free way of getting people to try and get hooked. I bet Tesla would get a lot higher conversion rate. What think?


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

They did that at least once with EAP, so I don't think it's out of the question.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

That will probably be saved for a different Q-end revenue bump.


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## B.Silva (Sep 30, 2018)

DocScott said:


> They did that at least once with EAP, so I don't think it's out of the question.


Yeah, same idea.

What if Tesla made it super easy for me to just give it a try? What does 0.5s faster really feel like? Is that worth $2000 to me? If I could easily try it, I might say wow, that was cool I'm going buy it and it's more of an impulse decision.

The idea is to reduce purchase friction. It's a zero cost item to Tesla with infinite margin. Anything they can do to reduce the barrier to purchase and increase conversion is pure profit to them.


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## Frully (Aug 30, 2018)

I just want the 'try' period after my roads aren't slick / after I have summer tires back on.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

We didn't do this on my wife's dual motor (and it's not available on my LR RWD). I may be becoming an old man here, but our cars are both plenty fast enough as is!


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I may be becoming an old man here, but our cars are both plenty fast enough as is!


Absolutely an old man response


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

B.Silva said:


> What if Tesla made it super easy for me to just give it a try? What does 0.5s faster really feel like? Is that worth $2000 to me?


That's not how Tesla works. They want your money.

I bet the number of people who tried and I'm going be very loose with this "the FSD preview" didn't pull the trigger on it because it was, and still is *not* worth the money.

I think I lot of people would try the .5 upgrade, go eh that's cool but not worth 2k just like @SoFlaModel3 .

I'd rather leave the risk of people buying it on a whim than trying it and not buying it at all


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

StromTrooperM3 said:


> I'd rather leave the risk of people buying it on a whim than trying it and not buying it at all


That's my thought too. I think there may be less people who buy it if they could first try it.


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## RonAz (Oct 16, 2018)

How about for those that have FSD and HW2.5, buying the 2k acceleration boost moves you to the top of the list for HW3 chip install. Costs Tesla nothing.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

RonAz said:


> How about for those that have FSD and HW2.5, buying the 2k acceleration boost moves you to the top of the list for HW3 chip install. Costs Tesla nothing.


Thats like saying I should be ahead of any non-perf model owner just because I spent more. That wouldn't be fair. It's pretty straightforward. Those that bought first get it first. I bought in March 2019, so I know I'd be waiting a good while. But hey I don't mind as it's fair. *and it doesn't hurt to have a bunch of beta testers


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

shareef777 said:


> I bought in March 2019


Bought what? The car or FSD?

I have a buddy with a 10xxx vin who said he's getting hw3 before me because his vin is below mine, but I bought FSD before he did


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## RonAz (Oct 16, 2018)

I took delivery in 10/2018. I didn't buy FSD until the $2,000 sale March 2019, so I might be later as well. I figured that the timing might depend on the work load of your service center. Where I live there is a Tesla at every stop light.
Actually just thinking of a way for Tesla to gain a few more sales from people who might be on the fence about buying the acceleration upgrade. I really don't care when I get HW3. I bought the car for the driving, not the software or autopilot. Did not mean to offend anyone.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

StromTrooperM3 said:


> Bought what? The car or FSD?
> 
> I have a buddy with a 10xxx vin who said he's getting hw3 before me because his vin is below mine, but I bought FSD before he did


Both. While it's not perfectly fair, I get why Tesla chose to go down the line via VIN # with FSD active for HW3 upgrades.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

RonAz said:


> I took delivery in 10/2018. I didn't buy FSD until the $2,000 sale March 2019, so I might be later as well. I figured that the timing might depend on the work load of your service center. Where I live there is a Tesla at every stop light.
> Actually just thinking of a way for Tesla to gain a few more sales from people who might be on the fence about buying the acceleration upgrade. I really don't care when I get HW3. I bought the car for the driving, not the software or autopilot. Did not mean to offend anyone.


I bought the car/FSD March 2019. I don't feel that I should get HW3 any faster than anyone else just because I bought it day one. You'd likely get the upgrade completed first (baring other factors) just because of your earlier purchase. And that's cool.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

I don't consider seeing lights, signs, lane markings, etc. on the screen to be a function that affects my driving experience at all. Thus, I'm unconcerned with my current lack of HW3. When the cars can act/react to these items, but mine can't due to the lack of HW3; My attitude may change. Likely, some measure of patience is going to be required of each of us as Tesla strives to provide HW3 and FSD to all of us.


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

RonAz said:


> How about for those that have FSD and HW2.5, buying the 2k acceleration boost moves you to the top of the list for HW3


Come on you know by now they don't care how early, what you buy, or how much you spend. You will get it when *they* feel like it 😉


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## bwilson4web (Mar 4, 2019)

B.Silva said:


> Perhaps Tesla should have a "Try before you buy" program?


In the 1980s, we called it a "Beta" release.

Bob Wilson


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

RonAz said:


> How about for those that have FSD and HW2.5, buying the 2k acceleration boost moves you to the top of the list for HW3 chip install. Costs Tesla nothing.


Probably adds unnecessary complexity to this. Right now its just visualizations. I am willing to bet that the HW3 upgrade from HW2/2.5 is completed before the point with which the cars can "react" and thus actually use the benefit of the new computer over just providing visualizations.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

StromTrooperM3 said:


> That's not how Tesla works. They want your money.
> 
> I bet the number of people who tried and I'm going be very loose with this "the FSD preview" didn't pull the trigger on it because it was, and still is *not* worth the money.
> 
> ...


They've done "Autopilot trials" before and I would anticipate if this performance boost didn't sell well or just if more time passes and they want a revenue boost they may go for a free trial. Why not...


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> They've done "Autopilot trials" before and I would anticipate if this performance boost didn't sell well or just if more time passes and they want a revenue boost they may go for a free trial. Why not


When the trials were opened, AP was in need of vast improvement. IMO it was a very immature display of the system and what it could do *at the time.* It's 100x better than it was when they did the free trials.

I've heard a lot of people who tried it actually get scared away from it because it was so jerky, the phantom braking etc.

I feel the AP trial actually steered people away because of how young the system was. Resulting in lost revenue. I think the same will happen with this acceleration trial. Just my 2 cents.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

StromTrooperM3 said:


> When the trials were opened, AP was in need of vast improvement. IMO it was a very immature display of the system and what it could do *at the time.* It's 100x better than it was when they did the free trials.
> 
> I've heard a lot of people who tried it actually get scared away from it because it was so jerky, the phantom braking etc.
> 
> I feel the AP trial actually steered people away because of how young the system was. Resulting in lost revenue. I think the same will happen with this acceleration trial. Just my 2 cents.


You're right about that, but of course an AP trial now would blow away people who are/were non-believers and haven't spent the money.

As for increased performance, the way I see it -- it's available now, so people will either go for it or not. In 6 months if they circle back around and either give a trial and/or put it on sale they could attract a whole new audience that initially passed.


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## gary in NY (Dec 2, 2018)

I agree that they probably will offer a trial for the boost when the initial take on the option wanes. Then they have very little to loose. They might even get me. But, I'm optimistic that some time down the road (a year or two) this will be the standard for the dual motor M3. They gave Ludicrous away to new S and X owners didn't they, and that was a much more valuable option ($) than this one. If my vehicle ownership history is any indication, I'm going to own this vehicle for a long time. I can wait.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

gary in NY said:


> I agree that they probably will offer a trial for the boost when the initial take on the option wanes. Then they have very little to loose. They might even get me. But, I'm optimistic that some time down the road (a year or two) this will be the standard for the dual motor M3. They gave Ludicrous away to new S and X owners didn't they, and that was a much more valuable option ($) than this one. If my vehicle ownership history is any indication, I'm going to own this vehicle for a long time. I can wait.


You're right about that and there is even some confusion as they gave away 5% performance boosts for free in the software and now come back charging $2k for the same exact type of thing. More power to them if they collect it though.


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> but of course an AP trial now would blow away people who are/were non-believers and haven't spent the money


The FSD trial to those on hw2.5 would continue to be a dud today as well.

Maybe different for newer buyers. But standard AP isn't really worth much more than radar cruise on many other brands. NOA is what people need to see, but still not worth 7k...


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

StromTrooperM3 said:


> The FSD trial to those on hw2.5 would continue to be a dud today as well.


No, as there is still no functional different between 2.5 and 3.0.


StromTrooperM3 said:


> But standard AP isn't really worth much more than radar cruise on many other brands.


Again, no. I have not been in a car with Autosteer. But NoA is better because of lane changes without disengaging.


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

iChris93 said:


> No, as there is still no functional different between 2.5 and 3.0.
> 
> Again, no. I have not been in a car with Autosteer. But NoA is better because of lane changes without disengaging.


Your reason is exactly why it's a yes. A trial of fsd on a 2.5 car would never make someone spend 7k. Nor would simply seeing a stop sign on the screen with no action on a hw3 car.

A trial would make me absolutely never want to buy a 7k package that doesn't really do anything. That's my point

NOA alone is not anywhere near worth 7k


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

StromTrooperM3 said:


> Your reason is exactly why it's a yes. A trial of fsd on a 2.5 car would never make someone spend 7k. Nor would simply seeing a stop sign on the screen with no action on a hw3 car.
> 
> A trial would make me absolutely never want to buy a 7k package that doesn't really do anything. That's my point
> 
> NOA alone is not anywhere near worth 7k


Ah. Got it.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

StromTrooperM3 said:


> Your reason is exactly why it's a yes. A trial of fsd on a 2.5 car would never make someone spend 7k. Nor would simply seeing a stop sign on the screen with no action on a hw3 car.
> 
> A trial would make me absolutely never want to buy a 7k package that doesn't really do anything. That's my point
> 
> NOA alone is not anywhere near worth 7k


If someone had base AP - a trial of FSD would show them lane change and NoAP. I guess they'd have to figure out if it's worth it or not from there. This also brings Smart Summon to them.


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> a trial of FSD would show them lane change and NoAP. I guess they'd have to figure out if it's worth it or not from there. This also brings Smart Summon to them.


Exactly my point. NOA missed an exit for me just yesterday. The lane change is still not smooth with passengers, non confirm makes the car operate like a nut bag passing and changing lanes to follow NOA for absolutely no reason. And smart summon is a party trick still not remotely close to prime time.

I think you've mentioned you have 2 Teslas and only one with FSD. You're the perfect example of it not being worth the money.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

FSD is still _mostly_ based on the idea of what it will do in the future, and on the specter of future price increases. Yes, some people like NOA and Smart Summon, but I don't think that justifies the current price for most people, especially considering that AP is now standard on new Teslas.

For me personally, there's two different problems with that which keep me from scraping together the money now.

First, I don't believe it will ever get to L5 with the current hardware--and I'm not talking about the chip. Without substantial amounts of new hardware, the current sensors won't always stay clear of muck, ice, etc.. That means L4 at best. I do think future iterations of Teslas might get there, but I don't think the current cars can. Robotaxis with the current cars are a fantasy.

Still, L4 would be pretty neat! Or even L3. And I think the current cars can get there.

But that brings us to pricing. Is the pricing for FSD really going to go up and up? Musk's argument that it will is based on it being an "appreciating asset" because the cars can generate revenue as robotaxis. If they can't be used as robotaxis, then that part of the rationale goes away. Eventually, FSD will need to be priced for what it actually does for an individual owner, not what it might do in the future. L4 might be worth $8k or so to many people, but it's hard for me to see it going a lot above that.

And that then sets the stage for something we know that Tesla does, from time to time: price adjustments that amount to special sales. FSD conversion for someone with HW3 has 100% profit margin for Tesla (the development costs happen whether an individual activates FSD or not), so the temptation to grab people with special sales will always be there, especially toward the end of quarters. Right now, the HW2.5 to HW3 upgrade is muddying the waters, since for people with HW2.5 there _is_ a marginal cost to Tesla for the FSD upgrade, and Tesla hasn't worked out the details of the hardware upgrade process even for current FSD holders.

But once those upgrades get done, I predict the price of FSD will start to bounce around, and there might be more free trials. I also suspect that at some point a HW3 upgrade might be offered independent of HW2.5.

And yes, this post is kind of off the stated thread topic, but it seems to be the kind of thing people are writing about here. A suggestion for mods: rather than try to untangle this thread, perhaps rename it to something like "Free Trials for Upgrades?"


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## gary in NY (Dec 2, 2018)

I agree with a number of Doc's points. I don't see the car as an appreciating asset. These cars are depreciating at about the same rate as other cars in this class. It's also somewhat hard to follow this due to all the price changes. It's even hard to compare what I paid for EAP and FSD in June 2018 as those packages have all changed. I bought those on the expectation of future functionality. I could have paid less overall if I waited despite the claim that the price was going to go up. There is a breakdown point for FSD pricing, and I think we are about there or past it based on the current functionality. Even using the car as a robo taxi does not make the car more valuable. The fare rate is pennies on the dollar compared to Uber/lift, and you still need to maintain the car (clean it between riders - especially after someone pukes in it, clean the cameras, etc, and allow for wear and tear). How many people will be willing to do this with their "baby"? Yes the car improves with each update, but so does my 2010 MacBook Pro.

Don't get me wrong, I love this amazing car. I'm never going back to an ICE vehicle, especially after the cybertruck comes out. I was, and am, willing to support the Tesla mission and the potential functionality to come.

Sorry OP if we highjacked your thread.


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## lawnmore (Jun 29, 2019)

StromTrooperM3 said:


> Absolutely an old man response


FYI Be careful making generalities. I will be 80 in 8 months and I got the update the day after it came out. Grew up in the 50/60's and got perminately infected with the acceleration bug.


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

lawnmore said:


> I will be 80 in 8 months


I thought wanting to be older stopped when you hit 21 😉 there are the one off outliers in every scenario. While I have minimal confidence a 79 year old has the reaction time required for this kind of speed safely, I do hope in 40 more years I'll still be modding cars and reaching for the same things you are. Enjoy it!! You're the kind of 80 year old I plan to be when I grow up 👍


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

StromTrooperM3 said:


> I think you've mentioned you have 2 Teslas and only one with FSD. You're the perfect example of it not being worth the money.


It's a personal decision and there are many reasons why someone may think it's worth it. Some people wouldn't pay anything for it and some would pay more just like everything else. It's awkward to include future features because that makes it harder to value but it's estimated that 30-40% of the people buy it. Most people agree with you or can't afford it but that doesn't necessarily mean its priced incorrectly. According to this survey from a few years ago, 20% of people never use cruise control. I'm sure Tesla buyers are not representative of the general population but it could be free and some people wouldn't use it. Below are the results of varying levels of automation. I think they will continue to threaten higher prices, raise prices, and offer more sales and trials to try to get people to buy it.


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## lawnmore (Jun 29, 2019)

StromTrooperM3 said:


> I thought wanting to be older stopped when you hit 21 😉 there are the one off outliers in every scenario. While I have minimal confidence a 79 year old has the reaction time required for this kind of speed safely, I do hope in 40 more years I'll still be modding cars and reaching for the same things you are. Enjoy it!! You're the kind of 80 year old I plan to be when I grow up 👍


The trick is NEVER GROW UP! Reaction time is assures by a stop at Starbucks. BTW my other car is a 2012 Audi R8---------Life can be what you make of it


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

StromTrooperM3 said:


> Exactly my point. NOA missed an exit for me just yesterday. The lane change is still not smooth with passengers, non confirm makes the car operate like a nut bag passing and changing lanes to follow NOA for absolutely no reason. And smart summon is a party trick still not remotely close to prime time.
> 
> I think you've mentioned you have 2 Teslas and only one with FSD. You're the perfect example of it not being worth the money.


We will have to agree to disagree. AP is working very well for me. Just got home from 500 miles round trip in 2 days and it was stellar.

As for me being the perfect example of it not being worth the money... you've lost me. I love it (worth the money) and my wife would never use it (not worth the money). That neither proves or disproves the point of the concept of trial vs no trial as a good idea because my wife would never buy it.


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> my wife would never use it (not worth the money)


Because it absolutely isn't worth the money 😂


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

lawnmore said:


> BTW my other car is a 2012 Audi R8


You sir are my idol 👍👍👍I hope when I grow up I can aspire to be like you 🏎


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