# ?#!$# automatic wipers



## francoisp

Got to love the automatic wipers on my Y.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/xgYJ8vuTK6W2j5NZ8

After 18 seconds I gave up and hit the button. Sigh.


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## garsh

Please try some rain-x on your windshield. It makes a huge difference.


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## francoisp

garsh said:


> Please try some rain-x on your windshield. It makes a huge difference.


I'd rather have my wipers do their job.


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## Klaus-rf

Rain-X does make a yuuge difference under ideal conditions, but it's soooo picky about dust, dirt, etc. and needs to be constantly reapplied - for me - it's not worth the trouble.


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## francoisp

Sometime the wipers get all crazy just because of a small spray so one would think that with that much water on the windshield the wipers would activate on their own without me needing to push the button.


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## garsh

francoisp said:


> I'd rather have my wipers do their job.


I'd rather you be able to see clearly out your windshield. Even with the wipers, it makes a huge difference in visibility.

If you have any car wax lying around, try a little of that on the windshield instead. It will have the same effect.



Klaus-rf said:


> Rain-X does make a yuuge difference under ideal conditions, but it's soooo picky about dust, dirt, etc. and needs to be constantly reapplied - for me - it's not worth the trouble.


I don't find that to be true at all. Even on a vehicle that hasn't had it applied in a year, the residual effect still makes it easier to see than a never-treated windshield.


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## modifications

I wish there was a way to control the wipers when AP is on. 

Getting tired of wipers going when its not raining - while FSD is on.


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## Mr. Spacely

Sometimes its like people are driving completely different cars. You're talking about Tesla wipers, right? Mine have worked very well for the last couple years. Once in a blue moon I hit the side stalk for a swipe, but most of the time I think about needing the wipers and they come on. And, yes, they will clean the front for better camera viewing during FSD...


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## modifications

Mr. Spacely said:


> Sometimes its like people are driving completely different cars. You're talking about Tesla wipers, right? Mine have worked very well for the last couple years. Once in a blue moon I hit the side stalk for a swipe, but most of the time I think about needing the wipers and they come on. And, yes, they will clean the front for better camera viewing during FSD...


Me?

During FSD.... often times - my wipers come on without it raining. Especially at night.

We may be driving completely different cars based on the software version you are using. My wipers used to be just fine and I could turn them off while FSD was engaged. Now? I can't.


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## francoisp

Maybe the water does not accumulate as much over the glass where the camera is located due to the windshield curvature. If that's the case, maybe putting rain-x on the windshield except around the camera window will create an equilibrium between the two areas.


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## dani190

garsh said:


> Please try some rain-x on your windshield. It makes a huge difference.


I thought the manual was super clear on not using that?


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## FRC

I think the manual suggested not using it in the reservoir, but treating your windshield with it manually is a completely different method (I personally use a ceramic coat on my windshield and highly recommend it).


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## francoisp

FRC said:


> I think the manual suggested not using it in the reservoir, but treating your windshield with it manually is a completely different method (I personally use a ceramic coat on my windshield and highly recommend it).


I'm a newbie when it comes to ceramic coating. What brand do you recommend and how often do you reapply?


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## msjulie

Mine often have no clue in dusk and dawn (lower light) situations and the only fix is setting them to a manual intermittent speed or hitting the stalk for a single wipe

I've remarked before the "vision sensor" just is not as good as the old tech in our 2017 Audi with auto wipers that work much better. Oh well


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## garsh

dani190 said:


> I thought the manual was super clear on not using that?


It says not to use washer fluids that contain those sorts of additives.
It says this is due to streaking smearing and squeaking, but I think other people have had issues with such additives clogging the washer fluid hoses and nozzles.

Using Rain-X on the windshield is fine.


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## dani190

garsh said:


> It says not to use washer fluids that contain those sorts of additives.
> It says this is due to streaking smearing and squeaking, but I think other people have had issues with such additives clogging the washer fluid hoses and nozzles.
> 
> Using Rain-X on the windshield is fine.
> 
> View attachment 40586


Whoops - Must have mis-read it then. This is great news! I am going to be applying it ASAP as I had it on my Audi before and it was amazing!


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## FRC

francoisp said:


> I'm a newbie when it comes to ceramic coating. What brand do you recommend and how often do you reapply?


I was too. I am using Klasse all-in-one. I believe someone in this forum recommended this product. They say that one application should last 4-6 months, but I think 2-3 is realistic. An application takes less time than thoroughly cleaning the windshield. The advertised price may seem a bit steep, but a single bottle should last 3-5 years and costs about $30 if I remember correctly. And BTW, put it on your mirrors and front fascia to make bug clean up much, much easier.


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## francoisp

FRC said:


> I am using Klasse all-in-one.


I've looked up Klasse on Amazon but what I found isn't "ceramic", it's an acrylic. And from my readings it's for the body not the windshield. I must not have found the right product. I would appreciate if you could share a link to the Amazon page or maybe a picture of the bottle. Thanks.


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## FRC

If you're seeing Klasse All-in-One polish on Amazon, that's it. 10 oz, 16.9 oz, or 33 oz. I was led to believe that it's ceramic, but since you brought it up, I can't find anything definitive about that.


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## modifications

francoisp said:


> I'm a newbie when it comes to ceramic coating. What brand do you recommend and how often do you reapply?


I recommend Gyeon for all of your ceramic coat needs.

Rain-X made my wipers chatter something awful. I had to use comet soft soap to get that rain-x off of my windshield.


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## Kimmo57

francoisp said:


> Sometime the wipers get all crazy just because of a small spray so one would think that with that much water on the windshield the wipers would activate on their own without me needing to push the button.


Yep, that's how they work...


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## Nom

For me, the poor performance of the auto wipers (often don’t swipe when they really need to, often go way faster than remotely justified) is either 1) showing the extremely low potential of machine learning (ML), 2) showing very poorly on whatever team at Tesla is supposed to crack this nut, 3) showing Tesla actually has no one on this problem, or 4) showing that the hardware is not up to the task.

From an ML perspective, the system must get so much feedback on when it is getting the swipe speed wrong …. I can see it being an ML programmers dream. 

Can someone smarter than me on this explain what the likely issue is?


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## msjulie

Not gonna claim smarter than anyone but I have noticed that when the light contrast is poor (early morning, just prior to night) that small rain drops just don't appear to be seen by the camera. 

Is it (the camera) too close to the glass to see water drops clearly? Beats me but I feel your pain in that sometimes the wipers just don't work, sometimes the car seems to think some dead bugs are a monsoon and they go crazy and the other times - who knows..

Dead horse beating - our lower tech Audi's auto wipers, while not perfect, in comparison to the Model 3 sure seem to be close to perfect


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## francoisp

msjulie said:


> Not gonna claim smarter than anyone but I have noticed that when the light contrast is poor (early morning, just prior to night) that small rain drops just don't appear to be seen by the camera.


I agree and I would add that it seems to be related with the foreground. When the foreground includes more of the sky the auto wipers seem to perform worst.


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## SalisburySam

garsh said:


> It says not to use washer fluids that contain those sorts of additives.
> It says this is due to streaking smearing and squeaking, but I think other people have had issues with such additives clogging the washer fluid hoses and nozzles.
> 
> Using Rain-X on the windshield is fine.
> 
> View attachment 40586


There is another section of the owner's manual addressing this differently and unrelated to the washer fluid:

*Cautions for Exterior Cleaning*
CAUTION
Do not use windshield treatment fluids. Doing so can interfere with wiper friction and cause a chattering sound.


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## DocScott

Nom said:


> For me, the poor performance of the auto wipers (often don't swipe when they really need to, often go way faster than remotely justified) is either 1) showing the extremely low potential of machine learning (ML), 2) showing very poorly on whatever team at Tesla is supposed to crack this nut, 3) showing Tesla actually has no one on this problem, or 4) showing that the hardware is not up to the task.
> 
> From an ML perspective, the system must get so much feedback on when it is getting the swipe speed wrong …. I can see it being an ML programmers dream.
> 
> Can someone smarter than me on this explain what the likely issue is?


I think it's 4. My hypothesis is that part of the problem is that the camera is up high and center, just below a bit of windshield where the wipers don't reach. So water can accumulate up there, and then drip down in front of the camera. ML then has to try to differentiate an errant drip in front of the camera from a torrential downpour, and that's not at all easy.

If the software had the same view a person does, it would be a very easy problem. Or even if the camera was positioned like a typical third-party dashcam. But that position way up top center, while good for making the camera itself unobtrusive to the driver, creates a problem for the automatic wipers.


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## Kimmo57

DocScott said:


> I think it's 4. My hypothesis is that part of the problem is that the camera is up high and center, just below a bit of windshield where the wipers don't reach. So water can accumulate up there, and then drip down in front of the camera. ML then has to try to differentiate an errant drip in front of the camera from a torrential downpour, and that's not at all easy.
> 
> If the software had the same view a person does, it would be a very easy problem. Or even if the camera was positioned like a typical third-party dashcam. But that position way up top center, while good for making the camera itself unobtrusive to the driver, creates a problem for the automatic wipers.


They should add a camera behind the screen for the wipers. Preferably one that can be retrofitted.


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## Mosess

I hate the automatic wipers and keep it off because every time I think to “give it another chance” on a rainy day it just goes wild and runs at max speed even if I slow down in carpool at my kids school or when I come to a full stop it’ll stay on full speed until I turn it off manually. 
It is pretty accurate at detecting rain and never comes on unless it’s actually raining or a vehicle in front of me is spraying their washer fluid at me. But it seems to only have 2 available settings, normal and ludicrous. 

My wife’s Volvo has automatic wipers and they work perfectly and even responds to the wiper speed dial on the stalk and when I turn it down it’ll actually run slower and not go wild like the Tesla does. 

Tesla really should fix this and add a speed and sensitivity setting to the automatic wipers.
Except in very heavy rain, I prefer intermittent wipers because I ceramic coated the windshield so hardly even need them. I would love to keep the automatic wipers on all the time as very often, here in Atlanta, we get those rainy weeks where it’s on and off rain every few miles and I constantly have to manually adjust it on screen which just make it more tedious.


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## FRC

Mosess said:


> I ceramic coated the windshield so hardly even need them.


Because of this, I keep wipers turned off and I almost never need them any more. My issue now is that, even though i have FSD turned off, any autopilot activates auto wipers. necessary? IDK. Irritating? Absolutely.


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## skygraff

Pretty much agree with you on the wiper behavior but can't turn them off when using FSD beta (either auto or on). Today, on a perfectly clear night a few hours after washing while testing FSD for a few blocks, not only did the wipers come on but the washer fluid came on as well. I have never seen this before and hadn't even heard about it but, apparently, the car will automatically clean the windshield if it decides the windshield is dirty in front of cameras (APP_w322).


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## TrevP

Early on they were atrocious but I've noticed over the last few updates they've been getting better but they're far from perfect. Tesla tried to save what probably amounted to a $.20 rain sensor and in the end caused them so much wasted time and resources trying to do it via AI.

Tesla isn't perfect, they do make some dumb decisions 🤷🏼‍♂️


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## msjulie

TrevP said:


> Tesla isn't perfect, they do make some dumb decisions 🤷🏼‍♂️


<snark> some? </snark>

Sorry, just feel as Tesla has climbed out of production hell to unlimited orders, focus has shifted. More games, less working features w/questionable UI. OK FSD moving along; really curious how many have it vs just wanted the basic car to perform well.

3.5 (close to 4) years worth of updates really doesn't seem to have made a noticeable improvement in the wipers based on the anecdotal evidence of my car.


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## Quicksilver

TrevP said:


> Early on they were atrocious but I've noticed over the last few updates they've been getting better but they're far from perfect. Tesla tried to save what probably amounted to a $.20 rain sensor and in the end caused them so much wasted time and resources trying to do it via AI.
> 
> Tesla isn't perfect, they do make some dumb decisions 🤷🏼‍♂️


As the saying goes, "Perfect is the enemy of the Good." So is it Good? I've given up on using Auto mode and have not tried it again since 2020  Maybe the last update has improve it to be "Good" ?


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## FRC

Quicksilver said:


> As the saying goes, "Perfect is the enemy of the Good." So is it Good? I've given up on using Auto mode and have not tried it again since 2020  Maybe the last update has improve it to be "Good" ?


I'm with you @Quicksilver. If the auto wipers were "good", I wouldn't have auto turned off. They are better than when I purchased the car and worse than any auto wipers I've experienced before. So I treat my windshield occasionally and rarely use the wipers. Not a big deal. We (and the use of "we" includes me) whine too much.


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## Kimmo57

I just ordered a set of S3xybuttons in hope that a pair of them behind the steering wheel would make the manual use better, if not even good. I remember @TrevP reviewing them. Do you still have them in use? Have you tried the new wiper-functions?


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## TrevP

Kimmo57 said:


> I just ordered a set of S3xybuttons in hope that a pair of them behind the steering wheel would make the manual use better, if not even good. I remember @TrevP reviewing them. Do you still have them in use? Have you tried the new wiper-functions?


I sold my Model 3 in January and removed the buttons, they will go in the Model Y when it arrives!

They really are handy and the fact that you can put them anywhere, like behind the screen or behind the steering wheel which is clutch. I set one for the glove box as my wife hates using the button on the settings screen and the others I use for dome lights, opening the charge port, steering wheel heater etc..


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## Rick Steinwand

garsh said:


> Please try some rain-x on your windshield. It makes a huge difference.


I use a ceramic coating (Last Coat) on the exterior (paint and glass) at least twice a year and find it works as well as Rain-X.


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## Rick Steinwand

modifications said:


> I recommend Gyeon for all of your ceramic coat needs.
> 
> Rain-X made my wipers chatter something awful. I had to use comet soft soap to get that rain-x off of my windshield.


Wipe them down with an alcohol pad a few days after applying the Rain-X.


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## francoisp

I recently returned from a 1200 miles trip to Montreal during which I faced light rain, heavy rain and road mist, and I've noticed a big improvement with my wipers' performance. In fact, other than when being sprayed with the faintest mist, the wipers performed almost flawlessly, starting promptly, adjusting speed appropriately and stopping at the right time. There were a couple occurrences when the wipers went too fast for too long but other than that they performed as expected. Did Tesla finally nailed it?


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## garsh

francoisp said:


> Did Tesla finally nailed it?


Not for me. It still doesn't wipe enough at nighttime. Until you get close to some overhead lights, then it panics and goes full speed.


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## francoisp

garsh said:


> Not for me. It still doesn't wipe enough at nighttime. Until you get close to some overhead lights, then it panics and goes full speed.


My nighttime experience was also improved. What about your daytime experience? Has it improved?


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## garsh

francoisp said:


> My nighttime experience was also improved. What about your daytime experience? Has it improved?


I haven't noticed much difference. But I'll try it out a bit more the next time it rains.


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## Klaus-rf

skygraff said:


> Today, on a perfectly clear night a few hours after washing while testing FSD for a few blocks, not only did the wipers come on but the washer fluid came on as well. I have never seen this before and hadn't even heard about it but, apparently, the car will automatically clean the windshield if it decides the windshield is dirty in front of cameras (APP_w322).


It has been doing that since late December, 21 or early January, 22 - with FSD-BB. VERY annoying as it appears to be able to detect a clean car and then always decides to activate the screen washer just to make it dirty again. If I don't wash the car I don't have that issue,. Clean the front glass and then FSD-BB must clean it again, and again.

Yep - VERY annoying and totally unnecessary.


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