# Basic cruise VS TACC



## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

So with this new option, I am contemplating upgrading my model 3 to full self driving. One thing I didn’t like under the auto pilot when I tried it in version 8 was the traffic aware cruise control was very touchy versus basic cruise. I didn’t like how it reacts quickly. Has it gotten any better in version nine?


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## Kizzy (Jul 25, 2016)

It still reacts rather late to changes that humans can predict (someone preparing to merge into your lane, for instance) or sometimes reacts preemptively to something that never happens (entrance/exit lanes where a car _might_ merge into your lane (even if it's currently exiting the highway)).


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Kizzy said:


> It still reacts rather late to changes that humans can predict (someone preparing to merge into your lane, for instance) or sometimes reacts preemptively to something that never happens (entrance/exit lanes where a car _might_ merge into your lane (even if it's currently exiting the highway)).


So I would have To intervene like I do now with basic cruise. But it's those preemptive cases that annoyed me in the first place. I remember how it used to break pretty hard for those. Has that gotten any better?


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## Kizzy (Jul 25, 2016)

LUXMAN said:


> So I would have To intervene like I do now with basic cruise. But it's those preemptive cases that annoyed me in the first place. I remember how it used to break pretty hard for those. Has that gotten any better?


It's been fine on the highway. Braking when folks merge is just a little harder than what a human might do if they're actively tracking what other cars are doing.

I've had some unexpected sudden braking on 2019.5.4 which has been a bit worse than 2018.50.6 was, but it's better than v8 was, in my opinion.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Kizzy said:


> It's been fine on the highway. Braking when folks merge is just a little harder than what a human might do if they're actively tracking what other cars are doing.
> 
> I've had some unexpected sudden braking on 2019.5.4 which has been a bit worse than 2018.50.6 was, but it's better than v8 was, in my opinion.


OK.  I am still on 50.6.

So has the AP functions gotten better? It also0 made me twitchy when I was in the fast lane next to the barrier and it tried to merge into it after the Expresslane exit dumped into my lane.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

@LUXMAN , I've put 13K on mine since September. Using EAP about half the time. I don't think the improvements to TACC or to NOA in that time have been significant at all. And in some cases(5.4 for example) they have gotten worse. I think TACC, for the most part reacts about like it did 5 months ago. It is too quick to break when the unexpected occurs and too slow to accelerate when the path ahead clears. In short, it's just too safe(I'm not saying this negatively, at this point it should be too safe). You learn pretty quickly to anticipate these oddities, and overcome them with accelerator modulation. We also know that these inadequacies will improve over time. Lane keep is one area that has improved a bit. The wild swerving ride to center in the lines has calmed a bit. NOA in it's current iteration is a fairly useless function. I think Tesla included these base functions in EAP purely to glean data for FSD. Now that there are enough cars supplying that data, they've removed NOA functions from EAP. Bottom line...If you think that current pricing now justifies the purchase, pull the trigger. TACC with lane keep is certainly one of my favorite features and will improve with time. I personally haven't purchased FSD yet and probably won't until significant advancement in utility is achieved.


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## TrevP (Oct 20, 2015)

Things are generally improving I'd Say. I haven't had any fantom braking for the last 2 updates in my car which was the most annoying thing. Nav on Autopilot still needs some work but so far it's encouraging! The fact that it makes a b-line for the HOV lane automatically when I"m in the adjacent lane is always amusing


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## Frully (Aug 30, 2018)

Random thoughts on the matter: 
Just had a 6 hour round trip with day/night highway driving on salted highways (low lane line visibility)...and it was very smooth overall. 
The worst behaviour (EAP) was aborted lane changes because it couldn't see the outer lane line at night. I don't like how it corrects so suddenly to make me appear impaired. "signal, start changing, change mind serve". 
No phantom braking and played really nice on NOA with passing other cars. 
I was surprised if I signalled to overtake with someone already passing me the car would slow down to make a gap before moving over instead of just signalling idly by. 
I also don't like how it wants me to essentially cut people off when there is no merge pressure to "get out of the passing lane". It wants me to initiate an overtake from 3-4 seconds following distance behind someone, but it wants me to initiate the re-merge at less than 1 second distance. I find that a dick move especially on sanded roads. On long straight flat roads I like to stay left until the merge pressure from behind is equal (the guy behind me is as far ahead as the guy 'we' are passing.)
All in all, TACC and EAP are orders of magnitude better than manual highway driving.


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

I've had the FSD option since day one and turn on Autopilot/TACC all the time, in all road conditions, as soon as the wheel shows up. If you are considering an upgrade I think the real key here is how you perceive what TACC should be. If you want the car to be the primary driver then no, it's not there yet. If you want a driver aid where you are primarily responsible for everything the car does and you are in control of the car the entire time you are behind the wheel, well that is when you start to learn how awesome this system is. It's just a part of my normal driving routine to take over when I see a situation that I know will be difficult for the car, we work as a team and she does most of the heavy lifting. I had to rent a car on a work trip recently and it was SO annoying that I actually had to drive the "Old Fashioned Way". You know, where I had to be the one doing ALL the work. Not to mention having to remember to turn the stupid car off when I got out!...LOL . I can't wait for more FSD features to be released and I will use everyone of them to the best of their abilities. However I have no illusions that the car will be in full control, EVER. Don't buy TACC if you want to trust everything the car does, buy it if you want an assistant to work with you. Once you are used to driving with it there is no going back!!


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## Rick Steinwand (May 19, 2018)

Kizzy said:


> It still reacts rather late to changes that humans can predict (someone preparing to merge into your lane, for instance) or sometimes reacts preemptively to something that never happens (entrance/exit lanes where a car _might_ merge into your lane (even if it's currently exiting the highway)).


Don't you think that will improve with the new HW 3.0 coming out this summer?


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## Ed Woodrick (May 26, 2018)

Not sure what you mean when you compare to regular cruise control, which is off or on.

But yes, it gets better


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

Rick Steinwand said:


> Don't you think that will improve with the new HW 3.0 coming out this summer?


IDK that HW 3.0 will make much difference to everyday EAP (as we've know it to this point) actions. It will have the processing power to do more intense calculations and reactions like dealing with a 4 way stop intersection without running down the old man in the crosswalk.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

MelindaV said:


> IDK that HW 3.0 will make much difference to everyday EAP (as we've know it to this point) actions. It will have the processing power to do more intense calculations and reactions like dealing with a 4 way stop intersection without running down the old man in the crosswalk.


Could it make the regular autopilot smoother? I am wondering if it that much of a faster processor, then it will be able to calm the hunting around I sometimes hear about. Or is that getting better already?


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> Could it make the regular autopilot smoother? I am wondering if it that much of a faster processor, then it will be able to calm the hunting around I sometimes hear about. Or is that getting better already?


The hunting around while in a lane has gotten better with updates. The one thing I still notice is when lane splits, like a highway off-ramp on the right or left turn lane on a city street, sometimes the car will pull a bit that direction then re-center. I just stay out of those lanes or you can dis-engage autosteer and stick with TACC if you prefer a smoother ride in those cases.


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## Bernard (Aug 3, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> Could it make the regular autopilot smoother? I am wondering if it that much of a faster processor, then it will be able to calm the hunting around I sometimes hear about. Or is that getting better already?


One thing it will probably do is provide the power to stabilize the jittering and morphing images of cars/trucks/busses/etc, surrounding your car on the screen; if it does, though, I think I'll miss it -- watching the constant adjustments is great entertainment when waiting in line at a traffic light ;-)


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

3V Pilot said:


> The hunting around while in a lane has gotten better with updates. The one thing I still notice is when lane splits, like a highway off-ramp on the right or left turn lane on a city street, sometimes the car will pull a bit that direction then re-center. I just stay out of those lanes or you can dis-engage autosteer and stick with TACC if you prefer a smoother ride in those cases.


this really is my only gripe with AP right now. However, someone said with the 2019.5.4 (that I've not gotten yet) said this update made a significant improvement on re-centering to fill a merge lane.


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## Bernard (Aug 3, 2017)

3V Pilot said:


> I've had the FSD option since day one and turn on Autopilot/TACC all the time, in all road conditions, as soon as the wheel shows up. If you are considering an upgrade I think the real key here is how you perceive what TACC should be. If you want the car to be the primary driver then no, it's not there yet. If you want a driver aid where you are primarily responsible for everything the car does and you are in control of the car the entire time you are behind the wheel, well that is when you start to learn how awesome this system is. It's just a part of my normal driving routine to take over when I see a situation that I know will be difficult for the car, we work as a team and she does most of the heavy lifting. I had to rent a car on a work trip recently and it was SO annoying that I actually had to drive the "Old Fashioned Way". You know, where I had to be the one doing ALL the work. Not to mention having to remember to turn the stupid car off when I got out!...LOL . I can't wait for more FSD features to be released and I will use everyone of them to the best of their abilities. However I have no illusions that the car will be in full control, EVER. Don't buy TACC if you want to trust everything the car does, buy it if you want an assistant to work with you. Once you are used to driving with it there is no going back!!


I agree about autopilot/autosteering: it's not nearly as good as a human driver yet, but it's a great way to relax a bit and enjoy the ride. For instance, like many people, when I look at a nice view to the side of the car, I tend to deviate slowly from the lane -- no more with auto-steering! so I can enjoy the vistas on trips, not just let my passenger describe them to me ;-)
But also keep in mind that autosteer really works only on highways and two-lane roads that have very few intersections and are not too curvy. It really does not know how to negotiate sharp curves and may do odd things at intersections other than simple 90deg Ts and crosses.


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## Bernard (Aug 3, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> this really is my only gripe with AP right now. However, someone said with the 2019.5.4 (that I've not gotten yet) said this update made a significant improvement on re-centering to fill a merge lane.


That would be nice; it's a really odd feeling when the car swings into the merge lane only to get back in line -- and it must look even weirder to following drivers...


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

This is good info. 
Since I didn't buy EAP in the first place, I dropped those threads out of my cross check as I couldn't keep up or relate to them.

So I didn't buy it initially for $5k (plus $3k for FSD) as I thought it was too much for what I would use it for. 
The $2k basic autopilot is tempting for just the TACC and Lane centering. 
And the $3k FSD to get the NOA plus the AP computer upgrade (I am assuming it will be just the one to 3.0). This represents a $3k savings to me ($6k at last pricing). 
So I guess the question is *will I really use it? *
It is hard for me to "sit back and ride". I enjoy being in control and not being behind silly drivers. I enjoy being able to goose the power to get ahead of rush hour.
So I am thinking how I will use this and what it will provide me.
I don't think it will provide that much as a resale item as I plan on driving this thing a lonnnnnnng time.


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## Bernard (Aug 3, 2017)

My other (minor) gripe about EAP/TACC is that, when you engage it, it immediately sets the target speed as the speed limit for the area plus (or minus) your set margin. So if you engage EAP/TACC as you merge into w hole in traffic when the traffic is moving slower than the speed limit, your car will accelerate quickly to try to reach (speed limit + margin), then brake as it reaches your selected follow distance because the cars ahead are all driving 20mph slower. a human driver would simply accelerate slowly to rejoin the line and never brake. I'd prefer if EAP/TACC would by default set the target speed as the current speed of the car, then I can increase it to what I want with the thumb wheel.
So for now I just drive manually until I have rejoined the line ahead, then engage EAP.
My last gripe is slowly disappearing: that was the behavior of TACC when following a car that moves to a turn lane and slows down sharply: even when the driver of that car is really good and does not start braking until their car is in the turn lane, TACC would brake with it until it was pretty close to abreast of its rear lights, then accelerate like mad to retain target speed. That was a pain, because, whenever a turn lane appeared and the car ahead looked like it might use it, I would have to disengage TACC to avoid this behavior. Now it's still present, but the effect is much weaker; another few firmware updates, and it should be human-comparable.
It's rather fun to experience this constant, incremental improvement of features, but I expect we'll see a sharp change once we get HW 3.0 if it is to live up to Elon's claims for city driving or to enable long-distance summoning.


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## Frully (Aug 30, 2018)

LUXMAN said:


> This is good info.
> 
> So I guess the question is *will I really use it? *
> It is hard for me to "sit back and ride". I enjoy being in control and not being behind silly drivers. I enjoy being able to goose the power to get ahead of rush hour.
> ...


I'm the same way and LOVE EAP. 
TACC/lane assist AP are absolutely worth it. I don't have to fuss with whether I'm holding my lines exactly, that's handled. 
If I want to drive harder and faster, AP can handle that too -- it even handles the lane changes.
TACC also takes the annoyance out of following distance. It's my biggest annoyance when people vary +-10km/h because they don't use cruise or use a crappy cruise. I don't fret when TACC handles it.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

y


Bernard said:


> That would be nice; it's a really odd feeling when the car swings into the merge lane only to get back in line -- and it must look even weirder to following drivers...


yeah - I disable auto-steer at this places before getting to them or make sure to be in the center lane.


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## Bernard (Aug 3, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> This is good info.
> Since I didn't buy EAP in the first place, I dropped those threads out of my cross check as I couldn't keep up or relate to them.
> 
> So I didn't buy it initially for $5k (plus $3k for FSD) as I thought it was too much for what I would use it for.
> ...


I agree I would not see it as resale value. It won't get us a free HW 4.0 upgrade down the road anyway ;-) But I would recommend getting it anyway.

I was slightly nervous (foot on the brake pedal) when TACC first had to slow down my car, way back in June; even more so the first time it had to stop it behind another car at a red light, as it uses city-style stopping distances from the car ahead -- it's *way closer* than one would normally stop in line in the suburbs or outside urban agglomerations. But I got over that quickly -- after a few stops and an hour of TACC control, I was comfortable with it. (it's possible, however, that the drivers of the vehicles stopped ahead of me in the line remain uncomfortable -- an adjustable stopping distance would be nice to have.)

The key to relax is to view all of the features as assists; you are still driving, but you don't have to monitor quite as assiduously a number of parameters. Few of us had trouble using "dumb" cruise-control when it came out, but we needed to be aware of the fact that the car would happily rear-end the one in front of us if we did not pay attention, so we kept monitoring what was in front of us, but did not have to control the accelerator pedal as much. The same principle applies with TACC/autosteer: you need to remain conscious of what it can and cannot handle and you can relax. (With TACC for instance, you no longer need to worry too much about the car in front of you braking or accelerating, but you still need to worry about any intersections.)

It takes a bit of nervous driving time to learn what it can and cannot handle -- a reference baseline. Once you have that wired, you find driving much more pleasurable than ever before. You can take over manually for those fun curvy mountain roads, but use TACC to go through traffic jams far more safely than before without developing a bad headache, and use autosteer to drive the open road with an eye to beautiful vistas without worrying that that extra 1/10 of a second looking at a waterfall will cost you your life... ;-)


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## Rick Steinwand (May 19, 2018)

Bernard said:


> That would be nice; it's a really odd feeling when the car swings into the merge lane only to get back in line -- and it must look even weirder to following drivers...


That's when I disable EAP. The swerving makes my wife dizzy. When you only have two lanes and a long distance until the next SC, staying in the left lane and driving 10 over the speed limit isn't an option.


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## Quicksilver (Dec 29, 2016)

LUXMAN said:


> This is good info.
> Since I didn't buy EAP in the first place, I dropped those threads out of my cross check as I couldn't keep up or relate to them.
> 
> So I didn't buy it initially for $5k (plus $3k for FSD) as I thought it was too much for what I would use it for.
> ...


I am also in the same boat. Now debating whether to buy AP or AP plus FSD with these new prices. I don't have a daily commute. The only time I'll probably use the AP is on road trips which is no more than two times per year. $2k for AP is tempting though and I may skip FSD for now.


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> This is good info.
> Since I didn't buy EAP in the first place, I dropped those threads out of my cross check as I couldn't keep up or relate to them.
> 
> So I didn't buy it initially for $5k (plus $3k for FSD) as I thought it was too much for what I would use it for.
> ...


Okay, so to answer "Will you use it?". I drive the same way you do, can't stand being behind drivers that don't know how to drive. Don't assume that once you have TACC that you just engage the car and disengage your driving style. I have the system engaged and push the go pedal when needed, or apply enough pressure to manually take over the steering if the speed is good, or press the brake/disengage the system when I want to slow down early for a red light. Yes, the car "can" automatically accelerate, slow or make lane changes, that does not mean I always allow it to do so at it's pace. What it comes down to is that you use the features when and how they best suit your driving style. You will quickly learn when and how to interrupt or override the features when you want a little more control. It all becomes second nature very quickly and then you wonder how you ever got along without it!


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## Rick Steinwand (May 19, 2018)

I purchased FSD last fall when I ordered my M3 since it was cheaper that way. Now there's a price cut, but I'm supposed to be compensated with an offer to Early Access Program, which if it is indeed early, might be OK with advanced summon and FSD coming soon. Not worth $2000, but beats the nothing I got by being an early adopter of other tech that later dropped in price. 

I have a 7 mile round trip daily commute, but once a month drive to my home town about 50 miles away via two way roads. About 4 times a year we drive to the big city via a supercharger, but due to the lack of the (promised) new superchargers, can only do that for the warm half of the year, since it's about 190 miles away and I can easily lose half my range due to driving Interstate in the cold.

So FSD is more of a want than a need and autopilot for my commute is more to protect me from a speeding ticket. But since this is probably my last car, I'd do it again in a flash.


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## Bernard (Aug 3, 2017)

Rick Steinwand said:


> I purchased FSD last fall when I ordered my M3 since it was cheaper that way. Now there's a price cut, but I'm supposed to be compensated with an offer to Early Access Program, which if it is indeed early, might be OK with advanced summon and FSD coming soon. Not worth $2000, but beats the nothing I got by being an early adopter of other tech that later dropped in price.
> 
> I have a 7 mile round trip daily commute, but once a month drive to my home town about 50 miles away via two way roads. About 4 times a year we drive to the big city via a supercharger, but due to the lack of the (promised) new superchargers, can only do that for the warm half of the year, since it's about 190 miles away and I can easily lose half my range due to driving Interstate in the cold.
> 
> So FSD is more of a want than a need and autopilot for my commute is more to protect me from a speeding ticket. But since this is probably my last car, I'd do it again in a flash.


The prices I see today on Tesla.com are Autopilot for $3K ($4K if purchased after delivery) and FSD for $5K ($7K if purchased after delivery); FSD requires Autopilot, so the full package is $8K ($11K if purchased after delivery), which is the same cost as it was when I bought my car with EAP+FSD (EAP being Enhanced Autopilot) 11mos ago in March '18 and the same cost it had been at that time since Model 3 was first produced in summer '17. (The distribution of costs and features has changed, but that's very recent, when EAP lost autopark, summon, navigate on autopilot, and its initial "E" to become just Autopilot.)
Does this mean that you paid $10K for EAP+FSD last fall? If so, I don't think that being part of the Early Access Program is much of a compensation. (I am in that program and it's not as exciting as you might guess ;-)


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## kpedraja (Oct 16, 2018)

LUXMAN said:


> This is good info.
> Since I didn't buy EAP in the first place, I dropped those threads out of my cross check as I couldn't keep up or relate to them.
> 
> So I didn't buy it initially for $5k (plus $3k for FSD) as I thought it was too much for what I would use it for.
> ...


If you didn't get EAP when you first bought the car, adding basic AP is now $4k and FSD is an *additional* $7k. ($3k And $6k pricing is only available when you first buy the car.) So you'd need to pay $11k to get FSD and be eligible for the computer upgrade.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

For everyone's reference, we've got an entire thread devoted to the ongoing maelstrom that is Autopilot upgrade pricing.  For the TL;DR version, check out this post in particular. Unless Tesla's recent blog post was inaccurate, @LUXMAN and anyone who took delivery prior to last week with no EAP should be able to add Basic Autopilot for $2K and FSD for an additional $3K.

As for the utility of the various Autopilot features... I was originally on the fence about ordering my Model 3 with EAP, given the price tag, my 9-mile commute, and infrequent road trips...but I'm sooooooo glad I did.

Most of the benefits have been covered above, but as someone who enjoys driving and having control over the vehicle, the perspective that really resonates with me is that of Autopilot as just another tool you have at your disposal... one that you can seamlessly engage and disengage from one moment to another as you see fit.

Want to zig and zag through freeway traffic, reveling in the pleasure of the Go pedal? Have at it! Tired of slogging through stop-and-go rush hour gridlock, or keeping the wheel steady on a long stretch of freeway? Relax your grip (and your mind!) and let Autopilot do the boring stuff for you. Uh oh, here comes a strange lane shift / construction zone / weirdo in a magenta VW Bus driving erratically, what do I do? Flip the Autopilot stalk up, take control until the situation has passed, and then tap down twice on the stalk to resume. Easy.

All of that experience is covered by the new "basic" Autopilot, and I'd recommend it to anyone who has a commute with traffic or drives any distance on the highway.

The "Enhanced" features that are now classified as "FSD" -- Autopark, Summon, Navigate on Autopilot -- are cool but have less practical value at the moment for most people. I use all three periodically, and they perform fairly well (except for NoA on certain interchanges and exits around here). I fully expect they will become better and more useful over time. But if I were offered the option to have them *and* FSD for 3K more, I'd probably bite. (Seeing as how I already bit on EAP for 5K. )


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> So with this new option, I am contemplating upgrading my model 3 to full self driving. One thing I didn't like under the auto pilot when I tried it in version 8 was the traffic aware cruise control was very touchy versus basic cruise. I didn't like how it reacts quickly. Has it gotten any better in version nine?


In the earlier days it was very touchy as soon as someone went in front of you. Now it's still touchy in the case where they go in front of you and don't accelerate but if they jump in front you and go faster than you the car doesn't mind. Smoother for sure, but still improving.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

It is encouraging @Frully @Bernard @3V Pilot @Bokonon have a good experience with a more aggressive driving style. Thinking on it, I use CRUISE allot on the roads here and the highway to work. I throttle it all the time to deal with drivers and turn it off when needed. So I guess it is the same with AP. Maybe I was expecting way more when I tested it 6-8 months ago. It may have been even longer than that as the car was still new, maybe even with paper plates...… Maybe I need to find one to test drive . I should swing by the Southlake store when the temps rise and see if I can get a test drive.

As was mentioned above, one thing I found annoying back then was how it would speed up to the current speed limit. Is there a better way to set that? Say I merge onto the HWY and it is moving at 50 vs the posted 65, and I engage AP, what will it do?


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

I can only agree. It’s awesome that Tesla has moved the cost of entry lower. Most of the time, I’m driving enthusiastically with a big grin. Traffic? I often choose to let the car drive. There are also specific times when I just use TACC where I’m fine steering and let the car keep distance, like waiting in a line of stopped cars. In fact it’s a life saver when I have noice but to drive uhh...slower than I want in order to make it to the next charger. I have a very hard time doing that myself, but on AP it makes driving efficiently tolerable when absolutely required 
Well worth the price. You WILL use it.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

LUXMAN said:


> As was mentioned above, one thing I found annoying back then was how it would speed up to the current speed limit. Is there a better way to set that? Say I merge onto the HWY and it is moving at 50 vs the posted 65, and I engage AP, what will it do?


If the lane into which your were merging was open, it would accelerate(too quickly) until it reached your set speed or the interval you've set behind another vehicle. I don't know that I've seen this discussed, You can modulate that too sudden acceleration with the accelerator. When you set TACC, if you depress the accelerator before set speed is achieved, it will warn you that accelerator is depressed, but the speed requested by accelerator will override the TACC request even though TACC remains engaged.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Bernard said:


> My other (minor) gripe about EAP/TACC is that, when you engage it, it immediately sets the target speed as the speed limit for the area plus (or minus) your set margin. So if you engage EAP/TACC as you merge into w hole in traffic when the traffic is moving slower than the speed limit, your car will accelerate quickly to try to reach (speed limit + margin), then brake as it reaches your selected follow distance because the cars ahead are all driving 20mph slower. a human driver would simply accelerate slowly to rejoin the line and never brake. I'd prefer if EAP/TACC would by default set the target speed as the current speed of the car, then I can increase it to what I want with the thumb wheel.


So that is what the basic cruise does. Is there any way to alleviate this or do you just have to get to speed with traffic and engage?


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

It seems to me that it is simple enough to wait until you are in position on your road, then engage TACC.


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> It is encouraging @Frully @Bernard @3V Pilot @Bokonon have a good experience with a more aggressive driving style. Thinking on it, I use CRUISE allot on the roads here and the highway to work. I throttle it all the time to deal with drivers and turn it off when needed. So I guess it is the same with AP. Maybe I was expecting way more when I tested it 6-8 months ago. It may have been even longer than that as the car was still new, maybe even with paper plates...… Maybe I need to find one to test drive . I should swing by the Southlake store when the temps rise and see if I can get a test drive.
> 
> As was mentioned above, one thing I found annoying back then was how it would speed up to the current speed limit. Is there a better way to set that? Say I merge onto the HWY and it is moving at 50 vs the posted 65, and I engage AP, what will it do?





LUXMAN said:


> So that is what the basic cruise does. Is there any way to alleviate this or do you just have to get to speed with traffic and engage?


If you take a test drive just keep in mind that it will realistically take a week or more to get comfortable with how to best use the AP and integrate it into your driving style. It's a bit of a learning curve but given your proffession it will come pretty naturally .

As far as engaging the speed, yes it is going only going to set at the limit plus your offset. I always look at what speed will set (it's in gray) and when I know it's too fast I start scrolling the right wheel down as soon as it engages. May not be perfectly smooth but it's usually quick enough that it works. If you have any traffic in front of you just bump up the following distance to 7 or whatever seems about right then engage, that way it will not accelerate. Or, just hold off on the engagement until you've caught the traffic and it's super smooth as well.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

FRC said:


> It seems to me that it is simple enough to wait until you are in position on your road, then engage TACC.


Right. I should have clarified I meant the Autopilot and Not TACC


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

3V Pilot said:


> If you take a test drive just keep in mind that it will realistically take a week or more to get comfortable with how to best use the AP and integrate it into your driving style. It's a bit of a learning curve but given your profession it will come pretty naturally .
> 
> As far as engaging the speed, yes it is going only going to set at the limit plus your offset. I always look at what speed will set (it's in gray) and when I know it's too fast I start scrolling the right wheel down as soon as it engages. May not be perfectly smooth but it's usually quick enough that it works. If you have any traffic in front of you just bump up the following distance to 7 or whatever seems about right then engage, that way it will not accelerate. Or, just hold off on the engagement until you've caught the traffic and it's super smooth as well.


Good points. Guess I could engage TACC first. Get in position then double tap for autopilot


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## JWM3 (May 11, 2018)

I use AP most of the time, it improves a lot over time. It is still not anywhere near perfect, like I need to keep my eyes on the objects on the road, AP can not identify the object and it will just run over it. But Tesla will keep improve it.

At of now, AP already very useful and take away the boring part of the driving, like hours of long drive on the freeway or stuck in the traffic jams.
I already made three 1000+ miles road trips by using AP, I can tell there is big difference. It makes me very relaxed. I took the same 7+ hours long drive road trips with other cars before, even with adaptive cruise control, I still feel very tired and can not wait to get out of the car once reach the destination. But this is no longer the case when I have AP. 
The less stress level also helped on the safety, I'm on longer keep changing lanes and cut off in traffic like before.
The $2000 upgrade is a very good deal, I paid $1500 for adaptive cruise control on my Volt and GM will never offer a free software upgrade to improve it. And AP also controls the wheels.


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## undergrove (Jan 17, 2018)

3V Pilot said:


> If you take a test drive just keep in mind that it will realistically take a week or more to get comfortable with how to best use the AP and integrate it into your driving style. It's a bit of a learning curve but given your proffession it will come pretty naturally .
> 
> As far as engaging the speed, yes it is going only going to set at the limit plus your offset. I always look at what speed will set (it's in gray) and when I know it's too fast I start scrolling the right wheel down as soon as it engages. May not be perfectly smooth but it's usually quick enough that it works. If you have any traffic in front of you just bump up the following distance to 7 or whatever seems about right then engage, that way it will not accelerate. Or, just hold off on the engagement until you've caught the traffic and it's super smooth as well.


In Speed Limit, set it to Relative and set the Offset to -20. When you engage TACC or Autosteer, your speed will be set to your current speed (unless you are going more than 20 mph below the posted limit.) Adjust with the thumb wheel as needed


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## Bernard (Aug 3, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> It is encouraging @Frully @Bernard @3V Pilot @Bokonon have a good experience with a more aggressive driving style. Thinking on it, I use CRUISE allot on the roads here and the highway to work. I throttle it all the time to deal with drivers and turn it off when needed. So I guess it is the same with AP. Maybe I was expecting way more when I tested it 6-8 months ago. It may have been even longer than that as the car was still new, maybe even with paper plates...… Maybe I need to find one to test drive . I should swing by the Southlake store when the temps rise and see if I can get a test drive.
> 
> As was mentioned above, one thing I found annoying back then was how it would speed up to the current speed limit. Is there a better way to set that? Say I merge onto the HWY and it is moving at 50 vs the posted 65, and I engage AP, what will it do?


Today, if you engage TACC/Autosteer and the posted limit is 65, the car will set the target speed at (65+ your chosen speed limit offset) and accelerate quickly to that speed. The offset currently is selectable in increments of 1mph from -15mph to +15mph. So if you had chosen +10mph (a common choice among posters here), your car would set a target speed of 75mph and, since you were moving at 50mph, would accelerate pretty sharply (depending on another setting, where you can set acceleration to standard -- meaning incredible by ICE standards! -- or to something closer to what ICE drivers are accustomed to -- which of course you will soon consider incredibly sluggish ;-).

Personally I would prefer that the car set as target speed the one at which I am moving when I engage TACC/Autosteer, since I can adjust it very quickly with the thumbwheel; otherwise the car will do a fair amount of "accelerate to catch up, then slow down to actual traffic speed" -- when you get onto the highway, when a slower car in front of you moves into a turn lane, etc.


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## Bernard (Aug 3, 2017)

undergrove said:


> In Speed Limit, set it to Relative and set the Offset to -20. When you engage TACC or Autosteer, your speed will be set to your current speed (unless you are going more than 20 mph below the posted limit.) Adjust with the thumb wheel as needed


That's one way, but the problem is that every time the speed limit changes, you will have your target speed set way low again. So it's fine for an interstate, but not great for driving around town or on road trips ;-)


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## undergrove (Jan 17, 2018)

Bernard said:


> That's one way, but the problem is that every time the speed limit changes, you will have your target speed set way low again. So it's fine for an interstate, but not great for driving around town or on road trips ;-)


With the settings I suggested, when the speed limit changes your limit remains the same, it does not go down if the posted limit is lower. If you want your limit lower or higher, you do have to change it manually. I prefer this to having it accelerate suddenly if I engage TACC or Autosteer at a speed below the posted limit.

I have the Speed Limit Warning set to Display. I can see when the posted limit changes, but I adjust my speed limit manually. This works for me on surface streets and highways. It's just another option.

To reiterate my settings--Speed Limit Warning: Display; Speed Limit: Relative; Offset: -20.


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

undergrove said:


> In Speed Limit, set it to Relative and set the Offset to -20. When you engage TACC or Autosteer, your speed will be set to your current speed (unless you are going more than 20 mph below the posted limit.) Adjust with the thumb wheel as needed


The problem with this is that I'd be rolling the speed up everytime I engage AP. As it is now I only have to roll it down on rare occasion. The perfect solution would be an update where you could adjust the set speed with the scroll wheel before turning the system on.


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## Bernard (Aug 3, 2017)

undergrove said:


> With the settings I suggested, when the speed limit changes your limit remains the same, it does not go down if the posted limit is lower. If you want your limit lower or higher, you do have to change it manually. I prefer this to having it accelerate suddenly if I engage TACC or Autosteer at a speed below the posted limit.
> 
> I have the Speed Limit Warning set to Display. I can see when the posted limit changes, but I adjust my speed limit manually. This works for me on surface streets and highways. It's just another option.
> 
> To reiterate my settings--Speed Limit Warning: Display; Speed Limit: Relative; Offset: -20.


Ah, interesting. i never set it as far as -20mph; at -15 (or 15 for that matter), it automatically resets the target at every change in speed limit -- what you're saying is that -20 specifically disables that behavior? I'll have to try it!


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## zosoisnotaword (Aug 28, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> So with this new option, I am contemplating upgrading my model 3 to full self driving. One thing I didn't like under the auto pilot when I tried it in version 8 was the traffic aware cruise control was very touchy versus basic cruise. I didn't like how it reacts quickly. Has it gotten any better in version nine?


From the replies in the thread so far, it doesn't sound like it's much different than it was. I had to opt out of the free EAP trial last year because I couldn't stand TACC. One thing I don't understand is why more EAP owners aren't pushing for dumb CC as a toggleable option on the screen once cruise is set. I get why auto-steering would need to be paired with TACC, but when auto-steering is not active, standard cruise control needs to be an option. That's what has and continues to keep me away from purchasing EAP. If I lived in Atlanta, or pretty much anywhere in California, I'd probably get a lot off use out of TACC. But for someone who enjoys driving their car and rarely encounters significant traffic, the phantom/early braking is not worth the convenience of auto-steer.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

zosoisnotaword said:


> From the replies in the thread so far, it doesn't sound like it's much different than it was. I had to opt out of the free EAP trial last year because I couldn't stand TACC. One thing I don't understand is why more EAP owners aren't pushing for dumb CC as a toggleable option on the screen once cruise is set. I get why auto-steering would need to be paired with TACC, but when auto-steering is not active, standard cruise control needs to be an option. That's what has and continues to keep me away from purchasing EAP. If I lived in Atlanta, or pretty much anywhere in California, I'd probably get a lot off use out of TACC. But for someone who enjoys driving their car and rarely encounters significant traffic, the phantom/early braking is not worth the convenience of auto-steer.


Perhaps those of us that use TACC and lane keep and are posting here are poor communicators. These functions are far from perfect at present and are improving much more slowly than we would like...But let's be clear, TACC and lane keep are fantastic features, and combined they are easily my favorite feature of the car. I have no interest in ever driving a car that cannot do what these functions can. They will get better and I look forward to that. But they are still great as they are!


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## zosoisnotaword (Aug 28, 2017)

FRC said:


> Perhaps those of us that use TACC and lane keep and are posting here are poor communicators. These functions are far from perfect at present and are improving much more slowly than we would like...But let's be clear, TACC and lane keep are fantastic features, and combined they are easily my favorite feature of the car. I have no interest in ever driving a car that cannot do what these functions can. They will get better and I look forward to that. But they are still great as they are!


There is definitely room for improvement, and I agree that the improvement will come eventually. But I'd have already pulled a $2k trigger on EAP if standard cruise was an option. On the same subject, we're also still waiting for a resume function.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

FRC said:


> Perhaps those of us that use TACC and lane keep and are posting here are poor communicators. These functions are far from perfect at present and are improving much more slowly than we would like...But let's be clear, TACC and lane keep are fantastic features, and combined they are easily my favorite feature of the car


I'd agree with this, and further clarify that "progress" with these features is not necessarily linear, or always in the right direction. Every so often, a new firmware version will come out that has notable regressions in the precision of Autosteer, the "humanness" of TACC acceleration/braking, or some other aspect of the Autopilot system.

For example, in the first version 9 release I received (39.6), TACC was leaps and bounds better than all the previous versions that I had run (up through 36.2), where acceleration and braking were both far too sharp for my tastes. On the other hand, 2018.50.6 has felt like a small step backward from 2018.50, with Autosteer+TACC occasionally braking in response to a slowing vehicle in an adjacent lane. But given how widely that behavior has been reported, it will probably be gone in the next update after 2019.5.x.

So, yeah, there's still room for improvement when it comes to TACC and Autosteer, and you don't always know in advance whether it will improve (or regress) in any given firmware version ... but that hasn't stopped me from employing it as a helpful tool in more and more [supported!] situations. And despite the minor regressions in 50.6, if you asked me whether I would rather have the version of Autosteer/TACC in 50.6 versus the original version that I had six months ago (in 32.5), there answer would unequivocally be 50.6... and I find that degree of progress encouraging for how it will perform six months from now, even if it takes a winding, uneven path to get there.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

zosoisnotaword said:


> But for someone who enjoys driving their car and rarely encounters significant traffic, the phantom/early braking is not worth the convenience of auto-steer.


I remember this from my Test period way back. I was going down the freeway and she brakes outta nowhere with no cars, no bridges but if remember right it was dark. Scared the bejesus outta me! What if a car was behind me?? What about phantom braking?


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

LUXMAN said:


> What about phantom braking?


I don't recall any true phantom braking events since about October. The closest to that now is heavy braking for a car that is turning left across my path 3-4 seconds in front of me. To me this is an example of the car behaving "too safely", and is the type of aberrant behavior you learn to anticipate and override with the throttle. True phantom braking can't be anticipated and, thankfully, hasn't happened for months.


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## ChristianZ (Nov 10, 2018)

FRC said:


> Perhaps those of us that use TACC and lane keep and are posting here are poor communicators. These functions are far from perfect at present and are improving much more slowly than we would like...But let's be clear, TACC and lane keep are fantastic features, and combined they are easily my favorite feature of the car. I have no interest in ever driving a car that cannot do what these functions can. They will get better and I look forward to that. But they are still great as they are!


Is TACC much better than when we were given the 30 day trial a couple months ago? I am thinking about paying the $2k, but would want it to be functional on highways. Has anyone heard when the discounted upgrade window will close? I'm hoping we can do the $2k upgrade and have some time to decide on the next $3k...


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

So sounds like things are better. One other thing that comes to mind is the NAG. I haven't heard people complaining about that lately. Has that gotten better or have people just gotten use to it? I don't mind holdng the wheel but don't want it beeping at me all the time even tho I am holding the wheel


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## NJturtlePower (Dec 19, 2017)

ChristianZ said:


> Is TACC much better than when we were given the 30 day trial a couple months ago? I am thinking about paying the $2k, but would want it to be functional on highways. Has anyone heard when the discounted upgrade window will close? I'm hoping we can do the $2k upgrade and have some time to decide on the next $3k...


Hey there Jersey! I'm in the same boat...never was impressed in the full EAP package @ $5K even after my 2-week trial, but always held out hope that TACC / Lane Keeping would be broken out eventually and that time is NOW!

I'm sure TACC has matured along with all the other Model 3 features. I never experienced any phantom braking events during my trial, but did have a few weird lane centering moments.

For $2k I think it's a no brainer, but get it while you can...it's Tesla anything can change at ANY time as we have seen.

Believe this flow chart has been confirmed via Twitter.....


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## ummgood (Feb 13, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> So sounds like things are better. One other thing that comes to mind is the NAG. I haven't heard people complaining about that lately. Has that gotten better or have people just gotten use to it? I don't mind holdng the wheel but don't want it beeping at me all the time even tho I am holding the wheel


The nag is pretty frequent. I just let my hand hang on the wheel. Here are my opinions...

Better:
1. It isn't as hard to disengage autosteer anymore. Before if I would grab the wheel the car would jerk and it would piss off my wife. Now I can take over autosteer and she barely notices.
2. The car is less likely to lay on the brakes if someone merges between me and the car in front of me. It only does it if the car is going drastically slower.
3. The car is better at seeing cars far in advance and stopping than it used to be.
4. Steering for AP is less jerky than when I first got my car.

Worse:
1. The car is insanely slow to accelerate from a stop. There can be 10 to 20 car lengths if I let it do its own thing. I am usually pressing the go pedal to get the car to speed up. This really sucks in stop/go traffic because cars will dart between me and the car in front of me or I'll get honked at.
2. There is a red steering nag that happens for no reason and the car will beep at you. I hate that. Before it was when it was confused but now it seems to do it for no reason.
3. The car will randomly jam on the brakes like it is tracking a slower car in the right lane. I think it thinks for some reason the car is coming into my lane when it isn't and wants to make room for said car.

If it was me I would pay for the AP upgrade but not FSD at this point. Summon, Auto Park, and NoAP are gimmicks currently. I would add FSD when something of value comes from it. I was going to pull the trigger on FSD when they announced it for 2k but my wife correctly said "why would you pay for something when there isn't any benefit from it". She said that when she asked what did it add to the car.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

LUXMAN said:


> So sounds like things are better. One other thing that comes to mind is the NAG. I haven't heard people complaining about that lately. Has that gotten better or have people just gotten use to it? I don't mind holdng the wheel but don't want it beeping at me all the time even tho I am holding the wheel


I haven't seen a NAG in the last several thousand miles. I have learned a reliable defeat that I'm hesitant to share for fear that Elon might take it away, or charge me for it!


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## ummgood (Feb 13, 2017)

FRC said:


> I haven't seen a NAG in the last several thousand miles. I have learned a reliable defeat that I'm hesitant to share for fear that Elon might take it away, or charge me for it!


You zip tied your teacup chihuahua to the wheel?


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## kpedraja (Oct 16, 2018)

NJturtlePower said:


> Hey there Jersey! I'm in the same boat...never was impressed in the full EAP package @ $5K even after my 2-week trial, but always held out hope that TACC / Lane Keeping would be broken out eventually and that time is NOW!
> 
> I'm sure TACC has matured along with all the other Model 3 features. I never experienced any phantom braking events during my trial, but did have a few weird lane centering moments.
> 
> ...


I'm so confused. I got my Model 3 in October. Currently, the Tesla website quotes $4K for AP and an additional $7K for FSD upgrades. Where are the $2K and $3K prices coming from?


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

kpedraja said:


> I'm so confused. I got my Model 3 in October. Currently, the Tesla website quotes $4K for AP and an additional $7K for FSD upgrades. Where are the $2K and $3K prices coming from?


This blog post:
https://www.tesla.com/blog/upgrading-autopilot-and-full-self-driving-capability



> Any customer who bought a Tesla prior to this week's price adjustment will be able to upgrade to Autopilot for $2,000 or Full Self-Driving capability for an additional $3,000


The Tesla store has not been updated yet to reflect the new pricing. That's why you're still seeing 4K and 7K.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

FRC said:


> I haven't seen a NAG in the last several thousand miles. I have learned a reliable defeat that I'm hesitant to share for fear that Elon might take it away, or charge me for it!


Oh please do!


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

NJturtlePower said:


> Hey there Jersey! I'm in the same boat...never was impressed in the full EAP package @ $5K even after my 2-week trial, but always held out hope that TACC / Lane Keeping would be broken out eventually and that time is NOW!
> 
> I'm sure TACC has matured along with all the other Model 3 features. I never experienced any phantom braking events during my trial, but did have a few weird lane centering moments.
> 
> ...


This chart might not be totally accurate. This is a shot from my Tesla account. Notice it says "within its lane" under the Autopilot Upgrade. So I am not sure it will let you change lanes with just the signal. It might but it may act like the Nissan ProPilot and only stay in the lane.


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## NJturtlePower (Dec 19, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> This chart might not be totally accurate. This is a shot from my Tesla account. Notice it says "within its lane" under the Autopilot Upgrade. So I am not sure it will let you change lanes with just the signal. It might but it may act like the Nissan ProPilot and only stay in the lane.


You are likely correct on the Auto Lane Change feature as clarified in the Tesla official statement. They are lumping that into the FSD package even though it's clearly not listed in either from the account image you attached.

"Autopilot, which enables automatic steering, accelerating and braking, normally costs $4,000 after delivery and Full Self-Driving normally costs $7,000 after delivery. Full Self-Driving capability includes Navigate on Autopilot, Advanced Summon, Auto Lane Change, Autopark and, later this year, will recognize and respond to traffic lights. "


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## ummgood (Feb 13, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> This chart might not be totally accurate. This is a shot from my Tesla account. Notice it says "within its lane" under the Autopilot Upgrade. So I am not sure it will let you change lanes with just the signal. It might but it may act like the Nissan ProPilot and only stay in the lane.


Honestly I think this is part of the reason why Tesla changed the pricing. I see a ton of people on Facebook complaining how EAP was $5k when propilot was so much cheaper. Tesla probably got a lot of flack for the cost of EAP so they decided to make it more like ProPilot (and other cheaper TACC/LKAS systems) and take out some of the cool features and charge less. I still think that Tesla's LKAS and TACC are better than any other car I have driven with those systems and people really look strictly at spec sheets when making those comments.

It's like why pay $1k for an iPhone versus some cheap Android. Well because I want to know my phone is going to ring when someone calls me. I had android before and the one I had was garbage and would shut off in my pocket. Now I pay more for a more elegant solution instead of comparing spec sheets. Same reason I paid more for my ceramic coating and PPF than others because I knew the guy was quality and stood behind his work. Same goes for Tesla AP vs other brands. It is just better implemented and there is some cost involved in getting the best.


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## fsKotte (Jan 19, 2018)

LUXMAN said:


> This is good info.
> Since I didn't buy EAP in the first place, I dropped those threads out of my cross check as I couldn't keep up or relate to them.
> 
> So I didn't buy it initially for $5k (plus $3k for FSD) as I thought it was too much for what I would use it for.
> ...


Did you get that free trial of EAP a little while back? I'm in your shoes - no EAP and fairly content.

But I did find the trial use of EAP (where I really just used the AP features) was rather nice. But, at the time, for $5,500 (that was the offer price to me, post purchase, after the trial), it just didn't make financial sense. I always said, loudly to anybody who would listen, that I wished they just offered TACC, maybe with autosteer, separate and apart from all the other whiz-bang stuff (summon, autopark, etc), at some price maybe in the $2k's. And lo and behold, here we all are . . . .

So now . . . $2k for AP. That's in my wheelhouse, it seems fair and within what I can afford, and it quite literally is what I just wanted and openly hoped they'd offer, since the day I got the car. And for Tesla, their little trial period with EAP for me paid off for them, ultimately. If I had not at least experienced the AP features during the trial, I probably would not appreciate how good the $2k for AP deal is.

I'm pulling the trigger as soon as they update my account with that price . . . .


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## fsKotte (Jan 19, 2018)

kpedraja said:


> If you didn't get EAP when you first bought the car, adding basic AP is now $4k and FSD is an *additional* $7k. ($3k And $6k pricing is only available when you first buy the car.) So you'd need to pay $11k to get FSD and be eligible for the computer upgrade.


No. Tesla is discounting those prices for folks who didn't get EAP to begin with (as I did not, back in May 2018). For prior buyers who did not get EAP, AP is being offered at half-off - $2k. And FSD is offered at $3k. Am I missing something here?


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

fsKotte said:


> Did you get that free trial of EAP a little while back? I'm in your shoes - no EAP and fairly content.
> 
> But I did find the trial use of EAP (where I really just used the AP features) was rather nice. But, at the time, for $5,500 (that was the offer price to me, post purchase, after the trial), it just didn't make financial sense. I always said, loudly to anybody who would listen, that I wished they just offered TACC, maybe with autosteer, separate and apart from all the other whiz-bang stuff (summon, autopark, etc), at some price maybe in the $2k's. And lo and behold, here we all are . . . .
> 
> ...


I did the Autopilot Trial, but I got my car almost a year ago and it made me nervous at the time. But there has been allot of changes since then,

So I decided I needed to try it. I was off today, so I was able to make a Test Drive Reservation at a gallery today. Luckily it is still open
I was able to try the TACC, AP and Nav on AP. 
Now back during my test, my wife didn't like it either and wasn't sure it was safe enough. 
So today she was in the back seat and watched it all. 
I tried it on the highway as well as a large 3 lane city street.

It performed just OK at times and great at others.

It did not want to change lanes with just the AP on or the Nav on AP. It was a dry, bright day and no traffic. It Ping Ponged trying to decide to change lanes. 
The Tesla rep said he hasn't seen that but twice before. (just my luck right?)

It handled the traffic well in stop and go but it did have kinda a big lag starting again from the stop.

I engaged the TACC late at one point and it got up to speed but the cars ahead were stopped and I had to brake as I wasn't sure it would. I probably would have but I wasn't gonna chance that.



undergrove said:


> In Speed Limit, set it to Relative and set the Offset to -20. When you engage TACC or Autosteer, your speed will be set to your current speed (unless you are going more than 20 mph below the posted limit.) Adjust with the thumb wheel as needed


I tried this trick and it worked like a charm! Thanks @undergrove !

So the verdict..... With the wife's recommendation, we are gonna do the AP and FSD if the price materializes at $2k and $3k. We feel it is good enough to be an effective tool and will get better. We think the price will be going back up at some point so I will take the chance now. She actually said she would want it on her Tesla Pick Up (God help me!)
Thanks for all you inputs!


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

fsKotte said:


> No. Tesla is discounting those prices for folks who didn't get EAP to begin with (as I did not, back in May 2018). For prior buyers who did not get EAP, AP is being offered at half-off - $2k. And FSD is offered at $3k. Am I missing something here?


No. you are correct. If you bought your car before the price change, you can get it for $2k for AP and $3k for FSD. But they haven't finished changing the prices in the Tesla Accounts yet. Later this week is the last I had heard


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## ummgood (Feb 13, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> She actually said she would want it on her Tesla Pick Up (God help me!)
> Thanks for all you inputs!


Sounds like my wife. She wanted a lifted truck for the first 10 years of our marriage. Then she switched to King Ranch Expedition. Now she is willing to go smaller to a Lexus GX. She still isn't sold on Tesla and kind of gawks when I tell her it would be neat if she got a Model Y. Not sure if she'll go for that.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

ummgood said:


> Sounds like my wife. She wanted a lifted truck for the first 10 years of our marriage. Then she switched to King Ranch Expedition. Now she is willing to go smaller to a Lexus GX. She still isn't sold on Tesla and kind of gawks when I tell her it would be neat if she got a Model Y. Not sure if she'll go for that.


We still have here Jeep Wrangler we bought new in '91 and she now has a Nissan Frontier CrewCab PickUp. She has had a MiniVan and MidSize SUV in the past and wants no part of the Model Y. She is all in for a Tesla PU or Rivian, but I wont be doing that as the price is way too much for that Rivian


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## ChristianZ (Nov 10, 2018)

fsKotte said:


> Did you get that free trial of EAP a little while back? I'm in your shoes - no EAP and fairly content.
> 
> But I did find the trial use of EAP (where I really just used the AP features) was rather nice. But, at the time, for $5,500 (that was the offer price to me, post purchase, after the trial), it just didn't make financial sense. I always said, loudly to anybody who would listen, that I wished they just offered TACC, maybe with autosteer, separate and apart from all the other whiz-bang stuff (summon, autopark, etc), at some price maybe in the $2k's. And lo and behold, here we all are . . . .
> 
> ...


I also thought $2k was a fair price for EAP before they released all this new information. I'm not sure EAP & FSD are worth $5k... I'm likely going to take EAP. I hope there will be a long window to see about the additional $3k.


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## ChristianZ (Nov 10, 2018)

NJturtlePower said:


> Hey there Jersey! I'm in the same boat...never was impressed in the full EAP package @ $5K even after my 2-week trial, but always held out hope that TACC / Lane Keeping would be broken out eventually and that time is NOW!
> 
> I'm sure TACC has matured along with all the other Model 3 features. I never experienced any phantom braking events during my trial, but did have a few weird lane centering moments.
> 
> ...


I agree, anything can change. Do you think it's safer to wait to buy both in 1 shot? I have this fear that if you only buy AP for $2k, they may say you had your chance and lost it to get FSD for the $5k... I wish they would say this is the new normal and these prices are now set or set until the end of 2019.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

ChristianZ said:


> I also thought $2k was a fair price for EAP before they released all this new information. I'm not sure EAP & FSD are worth $5k... I'm likely going to take EAP. I hope there will be a long window to see about the additional $3k.


Just to be clear, there is no longer EAP. They separated out the features. So if you want all the current features, you will need to buy AP and FSD.

I bet they will keep the AP at $2k going forward, but my guess is the FSD will be a limited time offer at $3k. Once they are ready with city street driving they will increase it by at least $1k


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

GAAAA! Its 4:30am here and the prices have been updated. $2k for AP and $3k for FSD.


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## ummgood (Feb 13, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> GAAAA! Its 4:30am here and the prices have been updated. $2k for AP and $3k for FSD.


I see money leaving LUXMAN's account!


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

So this happened yesterday 
Or I found it yesterday but pretty sure it happened yesterday or day before 










This is the right front fascia below the fog light. ( knee I shoulda got PPF) 
I have an appt to get the sensor Re fitted. But will this affect autopilot usage?


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

I had a minor accident that loosened that sensor on the drivers side. EAP function was intermittent. I would say you're done until repair!


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## ummgood (Feb 13, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> So this happened yesterday
> Or I found it yesterday but pretty sure it happened yesterday or day before
> 
> View attachment 22897
> ...


I could be wrong but I don't think AP uses sonar just the radar and cameras. I know my AP worked after I got my car back from the shop and none of my proximity stuff worked. It was because they had the sensors in the wrong order in the car. So the car wouldn't acknowledge them but my AP worked fine.

Now if it is throwing that your car is within inches of something because it is sensing the bumper then you might have an issue. You might try removing it yourself (if you can) and that should fix AP.


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## NJturtlePower (Dec 19, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> GAAAA! Its 4:30am here and the prices have been updated. $2k for AP and $3k for FSD.





ummgood said:


> I see money leaving LUXMAN's account!


Done and done (money leaving my account too)!


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## ummgood (Feb 13, 2017)

ACK you guys are tempting me. My wife won't permit it right now. I'm gonna wait until I pay my kids tuition and see where we are financially and then perhaps pull the trigger. Part of me wants to wait until I see actual results for FSD from Tesla before I pull the trigger. Thankfully they haven't put an end date on the purchase. I am hoping they announce "you must buy before this date to get the 2k price" and then I might be able to convince her.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

ummgood said:


> ACK you guys are tempting me. My wife won't permit it right now. I'm gonna wait until I pay my kids tuition and see where we are financially and then perhaps pull the trigger. Part of me wants to wait until I see actual results for FSD from Tesla before I pull the trigger. Thankfully they haven't put an end date on the purchase. I am hoping they announce "you must buy before this date to get the 2k price" and then I might be able to convince her.


I was thinking the same thing, but there will probably be an end date. Maybe sooner than later. 
If you build a new 3 online. The price is $8k total now or $11k later. So I don't think we will see a lower price than $5k

I am just about to pull the trigger. Just have to get over my cheapness.....this is gonna ne an expensive day off!


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

I just couldn't do it. I am too cheap. Since my wife said I should, I said "if you think I should YOU HAVE TO PRESS "PAY NOW"" ….AND SHE DID!!! OMG!










It hasn't downloaded yet, and doesn't show on my car's specs in my account, but the Autopilot purchase option is gone.


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## ummgood (Feb 13, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> I was thinking the same thing, but there will probably be an end date. Maybe sooner than later.
> If you build a new 3 online. The price is $8k total now or $11k later. So I don't think we will see a lower price than $5k
> 
> I am just about to pull the trigger. Just have to get over my cheapness.....this is gonna ne an expensive day off!


If I didn't already have EAP and was presented the $5k deal it would be easier. My wife would probably let me get it because I would be getting new functionality right away for the money. The hard part for me is $2k for vaporware (at least when I pay) is a harder sell. I did buy $3k worth of Tesla stock for this exact purpose that I could sell and use to buy the FSD. I still plan on waiting at least until Q2. I just hope it is an option then.


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## Quicksilver (Dec 29, 2016)

LUXMAN said:


> I just couldn't do it. I am too cheap. Since my wife said I should, I said "if you think I should YOU HAVE TO PRESS "PAY NOW"" ….AND SHE DID!!! OMG!
> 
> View attachment 22906
> 
> ...


Haha! Fastest way to spend $5k!! Since I am also cheap...I'll hang on for a couple more years when the AP will be free with an update. Then, I'll be ok to just pay for FSD...for $2k!


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Quicksilver said:


> Haha! Fastest way to spend $5k!! Since I am also cheap...I'll hang on for a couple more years when the AP will be free with an update. Then, I'll be ok to just pay for FSD...for $2k!


Ok now I fell like I did the wrong thing!


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

ummgood said:


> If I didn't already have EAP and was presented the $5k deal it would be easier. My wife would probably let me get it because I would be getting new functionality right away for the money. The hard part for me is $2k for vaporware (at least when I pay) is a harder sell. I did buy $3k worth of Tesla stock for this exact purpose that I could sell and use to buy the FSD. I still plan on waiting at least until Q2. I just hope it is an option then.


Yeah, I know some are unhappy about the price of FSD for folks that bought FSD, but you seem to be taking it in stride. Ya never know, all the squeaky wheels may get something done for you so waiting may be a good idea.


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## nonStopSwagger (May 7, 2018)

Quicksilver said:


> Haha! Fastest way to spend $5k!! Since I am also cheap...I'll hang on for a couple more years when the AP will be free with an update. Then, I'll be ok to just pay for FSD...for $2k!


Hate to say it (I paid 8k last June) but bleeding edge car tech gets cheaper over time. This is true for all cars, including Tesla. Next time they offer me an upgrade "at a discount if I buy it now", I'll laugh and do my best to resist.


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## Quicksilver (Dec 29, 2016)

nonStopSwagger said:


> Hate to say it (I paid 8k last June) but bleeding edge car tech gets cheaper over time. This is true for all cars, including Tesla. Next time they offer me an upgrade "at a discount if I buy it now", I'll laugh and do my best to resist.


Love you Avatar pic...reminded me of my beloved MR2!


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## nonStopSwagger (May 7, 2018)

Quicksilver said:


> Love you Avatar pic...reminded me of my beloved MR2!


Thanks! I had 2 94 MR2 Turbos, both red. Miss them both.


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## ummgood (Feb 13, 2017)

nonStopSwagger said:


> Hate to say it (I paid 8k last June) but bleeding edge car tech gets cheaper over time. This is true for all cars, including Tesla. Next time they offer me an upgrade "at a discount if I buy it now", I'll laugh and do my best to resist.


That is true BUT the problem most people are having is usually when you buy the tech you can use it right away. What Tesla is doing is selling you something that doesn't currently exist under the premise it will cost more to add later AND then reducing the price to cheaper than what you paid before any of it is available to use.


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## nonStopSwagger (May 7, 2018)

ummgood said:


> That is true BUT the problem most people are having is usually when you buy the tech you can use it right away. What Tesla is doing is selling you something that doesn't currently exist under the premise it will cost more to add later AND then reducing the price to cheaper than what you paid before any of it is available to use.


I agree, and I'm upset about it. When I've preordered other products online from other companies, if the price goes down before its shipped, the company has always refunded me the difference.

Tesla should do the same. Tesla are claiming it would cause them to go under if they do refund this money.

Instead, why not give us something else that costs Tesla nothing but has monetary value to us. Discounted supercharging, options to pay for a slightly faster performance boost (make my AWD car .5 seconds slower than the P for a modest price), and so on.

Us early adopters who threw the most money at tesla up front are being left in the cold. The fact they are not doing something to make it right, which would cost them nothing (maybe even makes them money) is upsetting. Other friends of mine who are in the same position all feel exactly the same way. Tesla relies on word of mouth to help move their cars. This is especially true now that dealerships are going away. While I still tell people my car is great, I now give them a warning about the company and retell stories like this on what has happened to all of us.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Still waiting for my AP, but my car is in for service and yesterday at about 430pm I got a software update notice. 
I didn't start it as the doors were open and figured they were working on it. But apparently they started soon after. 
However, now I am still on 2018.50.6, so that might have been the AP update. Hopefully I will find out today. If it was, then it was about 30 hours after purchase that it showed up.

That said however, I got to do a longer test with much more traffic on the way home from the Service Center in a NEW Model S 100D. 
I did NAV on AP and was NOT impressed as it swerved towards the divider (reminiscent of the Mountain View Model X crash). Now it wasn't too aggressive, but I made the correction that turned the AutoSteer off as I don't think it was gonna correct. 
Also had a hard Phantom braking event for a car I was passing in the adjacent lane that was not merging. Good thing no one was behind me at the time. 
So I was wondering "WHAT HAVE I DONE?", but I hope it is A) better in the 3 (don't know why it would be) and B) gets better over time as this was a serious splurge that I probably should not have done. 
Also I don't like the S AP stalk. I prefer the scroll wheels. 
Hopefully I can try it out on my car today.


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## nonStopSwagger (May 7, 2018)

LUXMAN said:


> Still waiting for my AP, but my car is in for service and yesterday at about 430pm I got a software update notice.
> I didn't start it as the doors were open and figured they were working on it. But apparently they started soon after.
> However, now I am still on 2018.50.6, so that might have been the AP update. Hopefully I will find out today. If it was, then it was about 30 hours after purchase that it showed up.
> 
> ...


My model 3 behaves the same way as that S loaner you got. NoA is pretty terrible, and autopilot does a hard break check every 100 miles or so. I can no longer use autopilot while others are in the car. It freaks my wife out big time when it does that hard break check when other cars are behind me on the highway. Autopilot seems to be at its best in bumper to bumper slow traffic. She has a volvo XC90 she bought in 2016 with pilot assist (their alternative to autopilot), it hasn't ever done the break check routine.

My suspicion is that we are at the end of seeing much improvement in these areas with HW2 compute power. Hopefully I get HW3 before my next big road trip.


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## ChristianZ (Nov 10, 2018)

LUXMAN said:


> I just couldn't do it. I am too cheap. Since my wife said I should, I said "if you think I should YOU HAVE TO PRESS "PAY NOW"" ….AND SHE DID!!! OMG!
> 
> View attachment 22906
> 
> ...


Congrats! I think I may be right behind you. I'm curious if your FSD upgrade option is still there? And if so, how long it will be an option... If we pull the trigger on 1 upgrade, will it start the clock on how long we have for the discounted FSD upgrade? Unless that is the new norm...


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

ChristianZ said:


> Congrats! I think I may be right behind you. I'm curious if your FSD upgrade option is still there? And if so, how long it will be an option... If we pull the trigger on 1 upgrade, will it start the clock on how long we have for the discounted FSD upgrade? Unless that is the new norm...


IDK, I actually purchased both and they both are gone from the options. So I guess it is up in the air as to how long the offer is good for …. "HURRY IN NOW AS THSES SAVINGS WONT LAST" LOL!


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Went and checked the car this morning and the Autopilot and FSD are active 
So somewhere between 58 and 68 hours after purchase.

Talked to the guys at the service center when I picked up my car yesterday. He said they can turn the AP on and off on S and X cars but for the 3, it has to be done by the guys at the Mothership.
He also showed me the page they see in the computer about each car and it showed my Autopilot as not active, so it was probably overnight some time. 
But I also just checked the DETAILS for my car in my Tesla account and it does not reflect that my car now has autopilot. Maybe that will come later.

I wonder if the software update I got while it was in the service center was to give the car the new AP and FSD toggle options (vs EAP). Now, I bought both so everything was available to configure in the AUTOPILOT section of the touchscreen
So after a year of ownership, I can now play with summon.... Don't know if I will enable the homelink for that one...


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

So I was concerned if I should have bought the AP/FSD. I wasn't GUNG HO for it before the price drop, but obviously interested enough to ask for input, test drive and eventually buy it. So I have now had it active for 2 days and I must say it is growing on me and fast 

Just a couple items that need attention in the software but it will probably get there.

TACC - too aggressive when a car crosses your path vs just easing off.
- when cars are stopped ahead and it isn't a gradual slow down it waits too long to initiate the stop and is too aggressive to brake.

NAV on AP - It really wants to change lanes when it wants too. I didn't want to pull behind a Semi and there was plenty of miles to move over before the exit, but it starts to slow down abruptly at times if you don't make the lane change. 

Of course these things can be taken care of with minor intervention like a little press of the accelerator or rolling back the scroll wheel in advance.

So I am sure these items have been mentioned but just my 2 Cents.

Anyway, I am getting more comfortable with it and I think I am glad bought it


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## ChristianZ (Nov 10, 2018)

LUXMAN said:


> So I was concerned if I should have bought the AP/FSD. I wasn't GUNG HO for it before the price drop, but obviously interested enough to ask for input, test drive and eventually buy it. So I have now had it active for 2 days and I must say it is growing on me and fast
> 
> Just a couple items that need attention in the software but it will probably get there.
> 
> ...


Do you think only buying AP is worth it?


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

ChristianZ said:


> Do you think only buying AP is worth it?


If you are meaning just the new BASIC AP for $2000 that "Enables your car to steer, accelerate and brake automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians within its lane", I would say Maybe. 
You still get TACC and AP, but it is limited. Without the FSD, you will have to overpower the AP to change lanes (the cruise will stay engaged but annoying). Having it do it with just a flick of the Turn Signal is nice. I have been trying the different settings and like MAD MAX for lane changes. It isn't that aggressive really, but it doesn't waste time like the other settings seem to. 
Now if you are talking about AP and FSD, I would say YES. 
I have quickly become a convert (so far), much to my own (and others here) surprise. I didn't buy EAP for $5k cuz I didn't think it was something I would use and didn't like my Test of the system almost a year ago. But allot seems to have changed and I think there will be greater improvements. When they came up with this combo offer, I was intrigued and am glad I asked for input and did a test drive. I definitely wouldn't have paid $8 for all this then or now, since I am frugal and don't do road trips.
But I use cruise all the time on these Texas roads and now I use the AP in its place allot. I am trying NAV on AP for the 20 highway miles to and from work. 
I still have lots of testing to do before I get totally comfortable (but attentive) with it.
I am not sure the price will stay discounted indefinitely for 2018 owners. So I would suggest a test drive from a friend or Gallery and decide from there.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

FYI. ELON just tweeted that AP prices go back to normal on Monday 18 March …. So make your choice quick


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## ZapM3 (May 9, 2018)

LUXMAN said:


> FYI. ELON just tweeted that AP prices go back to normal on Monday 18 March …. So make your choice quick


Me two weeks ago: EAP is cool but it's definitely not worth the price given my driving preferences and needs.

Me last Wed: $2k for AP, I'm in. I hope the $3k FSD offer is available indefinitely so I can see how it develops. I definitely don't want it for $3k now.

Me right now: The price if FSD is going back up on Mon?! I have to buy it. I can't miss out in case they actually deliver something legit.


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## zosoisnotaword (Aug 28, 2017)

ZapM3 said:


> Me two weeks ago: EAP is cool but it's definitely not worth the price given my driving preferences and needs.
> 
> Me last Wed: $2k for AP, I'm in. I hope the $3k FSD offer is available indefinitely so I can see how it develops. I definitely don't want it for $3k now.
> 
> Me right now: The price if FSD is going back up on Mon?! I have to buy it. I can't miss out in case they actually deliver something legit.


I'm having the same struggle. Based on my limited highway driving and aggressive city driving, I'd never really use it other than to show off occasionally. Plus I would prefer to keep standard cruise control which meshes better with my driving style, so I've decided to hold off. But I have to admit, if TACC could be toggled off, I'd buy it all at $5k just for the party tricks and the rare road trips.


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## Technical48 (Apr 29, 2018)

zosoisnotaword said:


> But I have to admit, if TACC could be toggled off, I'd buy it all at $5k just for the party tricks and the rare road trips.


Exactly this. My experience with the EAP trial convinced me that there are many situations where I prefer standard cruise control. I would be much too annoyed with TACC's idiosyncrasies* to ever consider paying for AP if there is no way to disable it. Plus, with AP3 on the way, AP2.5 development will probably stall. I'm sorry, but that's a hard pass.

*Things like: Phantom braking, suddenly changing set speed, set speed defaults to speed limit and often in my area there are a few locations where the TACC speed limit differs significantly from the actual posted limit, the need to constantly adjust following distance to smooth the reactions to changing traffic, and I'm sure more I've forgotten since the trial last autumn. I find it easier to just pay attention and dial the set speed or jump on the accelerator or brakes as needed. Phantom braking is the real deal killer. I advise all my friends to avoid following a Tesla on the highway because the ghost in the machine likes to brake-check.


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## NJturtlePower (Dec 19, 2017)

ZapM3 said:


> Me two weeks ago: EAP is cool but it's definitely not worth the price given my driving preferences and needs.
> 
> Me last Wed: $2k for AP, I'm in. I hope the $3k FSD offer is available indefinitely so I can see how it develops. I definitely don't want it for $3k now.
> 
> Me right now: The price if FSD is going back up on Mon?! I have to buy it. I can't miss out in case they actually deliver something legit.


You got a few more days to torture yourself... Still $3k for me as of today.

In Elon's head, "_High Volume, as in we are making stupid money right now on AP/FSD upgrades so I don't want to shut off the tap just yet...people are still waiting on Model 3 tax refunds_".


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