# Car stays awake when connected to Wi-Fi



## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

Recently I have been seeing issues with the car going to sleep and the only way I can prevent it is turning WiFi off. It’s getting extremely cold here and if I don’t turn WiFi off the car takes more
than 2 hrs to sleep. Also if the battery is cold soaked it also takes a while to sleep. Are these normal symptoms?


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

webdriverguy said:


> Recently I have been seeing issues with the car going to sleep and the only way I can prevent it is turning WiFi off. It's getting extremely cold here and if I don't turn WiFi off the car takes more
> than 2 hrs to sleep. Also if the battery is cold soaked it also takes a while to sleep. Are these normal symptoms?


2 hours doesn't seem like a long time to me at all. I wouldn't be the least concerned about that length of time staying awake.


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

Bigriver said:


> 2 hours doesn't seem like a long time to me at all. I wouldn't be the least concerned about that length of time staying awake.


But it consumes power if it stays awake that long. For me it's 1% even 2% sometimes. Why would you loose that range. And it's 1% everytime it stays awake that long.


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## jakerob (Dec 25, 2018)

My car also stays awake if I leave Wi-Fi on at home. I park on the street and have a weak signal--usually 1 or 2 bars.


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

jakerob said:


> My car also stays awake if I leave Wi-Fi on at home. I park on the street and have a weak signal--usually 1 or 2 bars.


Filed a bug with tesla. Will contact service tomorrow and see if they have heard about this.


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## TheHairyOne (Nov 28, 2018)

With WiFi it downloads new songs and possible firmware updates. Check your router stats to see if it was doing a download of some sort.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

Question for everyone here: when your car is connected to Wi-Fi but does not fall asleep, have you tried opening and closing a door after 30 minutes to see if that triggers the car to sleep? @Needsdecaf's car is also having issues falling asleep on Wi-Fi, and he has consistently been able to trigger sleep by opening and closing a door.



TheHairyOne said:


> With WiFi it downloads new songs


New songs?  That's the first I've heard of that... in addition to firmware updates, the car can also download updated map data, but I haven't heard of it caching songs (presumably from Slacker)...?


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## TheHairyOne (Nov 28, 2018)

@Bokonon I can't remember where I read it, but somewhere: site, manual or in car during wifi connection failure, it said music cache as well. If you select a new genre you'll get a spinning in-progress download over LTE symbol. But for your most common genres, where the same songs are repeated over and over. I noticed the first time I connected over WiFi that the aongs got refreshed within that genre. Prior to that I was bored by the same songs repeatedly for a week.

Correction/edit: I figured out that there's absolutely no caching of music. What drives new music, is hitting the like button on something. Which then teaches slacker to try and feed you similar/same-artist/same-genre/same-something type songs into the queue. any time LTE dies the next song will not play, because its not cached. Only the currently playing song gets sufficiently buffered to not get interrupted during any drop outs, but that's to ram not persistent storage.


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

What do you mean by "not fall asleep". What is the basis of "sleep".

I've had issues where I can hear a fan/pump running for like 8 hours and cannot figure out any pattern to it. Work, Home, Plugged in or Not.
It sounds similar to when charging, but not quite as loud. I've been calling that "not sleeping".

Since version 2018.50 it's seems to be a lot better. Might be in that state for up to hour lately, which feels more "normal" (like it was before the "Cold weather" update).


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

My car makes that same pump
Running sound when big sleeping. Sleeping is reported by TeslaFi.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

TheHairyOne said:


> @Bokonon I can't remember where I read it, but somewhere: site, manual or in car during wifi connection failure, it said music cache as well. If you select a new genre you'll get a spinning in-progress download over LTE symbol. But for your most common genres, where the same songs are repeated over and over. I noticed the first time I connected over WiFi that the aongs got refreshed within that genre. Prior to that I was bored by the same songs repeatedly for a week.


It's funny, I've never heard of the music cache before... *and yet*, the last four times I've started my car after it was asleep, the sound system has automatically switched itself to "Streaming" and started playing the exact same ODEZSA song, despite the fact that I've been listening to local radio stations exclusively while driving. Very, very strange, but it does indeed seem like the car is caching some [random] music.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

So my car still has this issue, even after switching to 50.6. 

I came home Monday and didn't plug in right away. Got home at 6:05. Car tried to sleep several times according to TeslaFi but was unable to do so. I ended up plugging around 7:40. When I went out to the car, it had lost 1% of charge. The coolant pump was running. According to TeslaFi the car's exterior temp was 69 degrees. It was parked in the garage with my wife's car which does throw off a good amount of heat and it was not overly cold here on Monday. 

Yet when I got to work today, boom, car sleeps in about 30 minutes. Usually when TeslaFi enters sleep mode in 30 minutes it takes a minute or two to sleep. But it's consistent that it does. And when I go out to the car, nothing's running and it's asleep. The widget and app report it asleep too. 

I've reported it to Tesla tech and they say they're looking into it. But if they can't figure it out, I'm just going to forget my router in WiFi until the next software roll out.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

Not working today so this morning after taking the kids to school, I deleted my WiFi router from the car. Did not plug it in. 

Slept in 30 minutes. 

Will see what Tesla says about the bug. But at least I know this works to keep it from occurring.


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

Needsdecaf said:


> Not working today so this morning after taking the kids to school, I deleted my WiFi router from the car. Did not plug it in.
> 
> Slept in 30 minutes.
> 
> Will see what Tesla says about the bug. But at least I know this works to keep it from occurring.


I don't think this is Tesla's problem. You said in prior post you were measuring with "Teslafi.com". I think that's your problem.

https://support.teslafi.com/knowled...enabling-sleep-settings-to-limit-vampire-loss

When I read this link above I gave up on collecting stats on the car. It's useless stats unless it does poll fairly often. And way to expensive to poll often.

Try changing your account password and turn WIFI back on.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

mswlogo said:


> I don't think this is Tesla's problem. You said in prior post you were measuring with "Teslafi.com". I think that's your problem.
> 
> https://support.teslafi.com/knowled...enabling-sleep-settings-to-limit-vampire-loss
> 
> ...


Disagree 100% that it's being caused by TeslaFi.

1. I have followed all the settings to minimize drain.

2. The car sleeps 100% of the time once TeslaFi stops polling when NOT connected to WiFi (i.e. work or at a stop away from home that lasts more than the 30 minutes before TeslaFi stops polling to allow the car to sleep. Literally I have never had it fail to fall asleep when away from the house.

3. I've been running TeslaFi since I got the car. I did not have this problem for the first week and a half that I had the car.

4. This problem doesn't happen when the car is plugged in and done charging. Looking at the data logs, as soon as the car is done charging, TeslaFi starts sleep attempts and it goes to sleep in 2-3 minutes.

5. WiFi is off, but TeslaFi is still collecting data from the car via LTE. And the car is currently in the garage, unplugged, and asleep.

I don't understand what you mean it's expensive to poll often. Are you saying that when the car is awake and driving, that TeslaFi is causing more drain by polling the car? Because by that document above, it on,y keeps the car awake for 30 minutes after idiling, and that doesn't seem to cause much drain at all. Almost always, it goes to sleep with the same battery percentage it went idle with.


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## EarlyBuyer (Apr 9, 2017)

webdriverguy said:


> Recently I have been seeing issues with the car going to sleep and the only way I can prevent it is turning WiFi off. It's getting extremely cold here and if I don't turn WiFi off the car takes more
> than 2 hrs to sleep. Also if the battery is cold soaked it also takes a while to sleep. Are these normal symptoms?


Have you tried Ambien? Seriously though, I haven't found an issue with mine and WiFi.


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

EarlyBuyer said:


> Have you tried Ambien? Seriously though, I haven't found an issue with mine and WiFi.


 I have a SC appointment on feb 6th. I will report back with what they say.


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## RSavage (Aug 31, 2017)

I fought the no sleep issue for a few weeks. Like you, followed all the suggested TeslaFi setting recomendations...and all manner of other 'possible' options. No luck. As a last resort I changed my Tesla account password. The INSTANT it changed, the car went to sleep and is now back to normal sleep paterns. It will sleep for days if I leave it alone. Not saying this will fix it for you, but it was magic for me. Give it a shot...might save you a trip to the Service Center.


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

Needsdecaf said:


> Not working today so this morning after taking the kids to school, I deleted my WiFi router from the car. Did not plug it in.
> 
> Slept in 30 minutes.
> 
> Will see what Tesla says about the bug. But at least I know this works to keep it from occurring.


You know you might be on to something.

For a while I felt like my car was running that pump WAY to long. Like 8 hours after every time I walk away. I thought these later versions (e.g. 50.x) resolved it.

I was running apps and decided to hold off and change password to assure nothing had access but Tesla. It was better.

I had not been tracking vampire drain that closely and it's hard to without an app. To cold out to check if pump is going. So I decided to track it closer. I take a picture every time I get out. And I don't use any app to check it.

Parked at work, in the sun 15F out. Lost 10 miles in 8 hours. That's a lot. For grins i get home, I deleted the WIFI pairings. 14 hours later. It didn't lose ANY. It does have LTE signal. It is in an unheated garage. 32F.

It was plugged in, not charging. I've lost plenty with it plugged in before.

Oh, one other big thing I did for grins. I shut the dam heat OFF. I sure wish Tesla would give an option of NO HEAT unless the car is in Drive.

This is only one test. Need to test lot more.

All I do know is that pump should not be running for more than a few minutes after parking.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

mswlogo said:


> I don't think this is Tesla's problem. You said in prior post you were measuring with "Teslafi.com". I think that's your problem.
> 
> https://support.teslafi.com/knowled...enabling-sleep-settings-to-limit-vampire-loss
> 
> ...


Don't think Teslafi is the issue. I use Teslafi and have not had any issues with my car sleeping or vampire drain.


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## cftarnas (Jan 1, 2019)

TeslaFi may have a bug as well. The WiFi connection link makes that less likely, but if changing a password can fix it...


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

RSavage said:


> I fought the no sleep issue for a few weeks. Like you, followed all the suggested TeslaFi setting recomendations...and all manner of other 'possible' options. No luck. As a last resort I changed my Tesla account password. The INSTANT it changed, the car went to sleep and is now back to normal sleep paterns. It will sleep for days if I leave it alone. Not saying this will fix it for you, but it was magic for me. Give it a shot...might save you a trip to the Service Center.


Glad that worked for you. I've been lucky (?) in that doesn't seem to be the issue for me. My issue has always been at home. Anywhere else the car sleeps fine.



mswlogo said:


> You know you might be on to something.
> 
> For a while I felt like my car was running that pump WAY to long. Like 8 hours after every time I walk away. I thought these later versions (e.g. 50.x) resolved it.
> 
> ...


Yeah, it should not be running for sure. That's what clued me in to the issue in the first place, sound like same as you.

Also, I can't take credit for this workaround. The OP figured it out. Initially I was able to get the car to go back to sleep by opening and closing a door, for some odd reason. But eventually that stopped working.



MelindaV said:


> Don't think Teslafi is the issue. I use Teslafi and have not had any issues with my car sleeping or vampire drain.


Yeah, my issue has ONLY been at home, unplugged. Plugged in, it sleeps as soon as charging is done. Away from home it sleeps within 2-3 minutes of TeslaFi stopping the polling.

This is from last night. I didn't plug in as I didn't really drive much at all yesterday and want my SOC to drop a little from 90. An this is at home, WiFi not connected.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

I didn't plug mine in last night, and it went to sleep (and stayed asleep until I went out to it this morning) straight thru the night, same as when plugged in. when at home, it is always connected to wifi, and has a fairly good connection strength (around 75%-ish) but not a perfect wifi connection.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

MelindaV said:


> I didn't plug mine in last night, and it went to sleep (and stayed asleep until I went out to it this morning) straight thru the night, same as when plugged in. when at home, it is always connected to wifi, and has a fairly good connection strength (around 75%-ish) but not a perfect wifi connection.


Yeah, as I said I've been running TeslaFi since I got the car and been on a WiFi since day one. And this issue didn't crop up for like two weeks. While still on the original software. Dunno why it would change, or affect some but not others.

My WiFi signal is pretty weak in the garage. Wonder if that affects it.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

Needsdecaf said:


> My WiFi signal is pretty weak in the garage. Wonder if that affects it.


if it is weak, it very much does. The car is probably trying too hard to keep that connection.
if you are able, move a router/access point (or add one) and see if that helps.


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

MelindaV said:


> if it is weak, it very much does. The car is probably trying too hard to keep that connection.
> if you are able, move a router/access point (or add one) and see if that helps.


Actually a weak connection shouldn't directly cause that much power drain.

But, a weak connection can cause slow data throughout or subject to retries. While it struggles to get that "update" that may keep the car awake. And the "awake" is the real power draw, not the WiFi itself.


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## Magnets! (Jan 10, 2019)

MelindaV said:


> I didn't plug mine in last night, and it went to sleep (and stayed asleep until I went out to it this morning) straight thru the night, same as when plugged in. when at home, it is always connected to wifi, and has a fairly good connection strength (around 75%-ish) but not a perfect wifi connection.


When you say 'always connected to wifi', are you verifying this through your router's software? I find that my car will connect to wifi occasionally, but does not remain always connected. Best thing I've found to make the car sleep right away is to shut off bluetooth on my phone.


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

Magnets! said:


> When you say 'always connected to wifi', are you verifying this through your router's software? I find that my car will connect to wifi occasionally, but does not remain always connected. Best thing I've found to make the car sleep right away is to shut off bluetooth on my phone.


No way I'll be shutting off bluetooth every time I leave the car. That would be a nightmare. Unless your phone is VERY close, bluetooth should not matter.

The only bluetooth "active" once your car is locked is the auto-locking. That is Bluetooth LE and has very little range.

The WIFI does make some sense that it could be impacting things (actively connected or not). Bluetooth on your phone makes very little sense to be impacting things. Could be something funky with the App behavior if it sees bluetooth is off. But that would be a real stretch.


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## Magnets! (Jan 10, 2019)

My 3 is parked under my living area and with the exception of the far side of my house, bluetooth key remains connected. My car will sit for hours without sleeping with BT on, but turning it off (with siri or control center, very simple) causes it to sleep very quickly. Could be an explanation for people that say their car sleeps fine at work but not at home.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

Magnets! said:


> My 3 is parked under my living area and with the exception of the far side of my house, bluetooth key remains connected. My car will sit for hours without sleeping with BT on, but turning it off (with siri or control center, very simple) causes it to sleep very quickly. Could be an explanation for people that say their car sleeps fine at work but not at home.


Not in my case. Phone is pretty far away. Definitely not connected.


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

Magnets! said:


> My 3 is parked under my living area and with the exception of the far side of my house, bluetooth key remains connected. My car will sit for hours without sleeping with BT on, but turning it off (with siri or control center, very simple) causes it to sleep very quickly. Could be an explanation for people that say their car sleeps fine at work but not at home.


Does the car auto lock? It needs be extremely close to unlock. I find the phone needs to be in the car to stay awake.
Mine auto locks before I exit the 2 car garage.


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

Magnets! said:


> My 3 is parked under my living area and with the exception of the far side of my house, bluetooth key remains connected. My car will sit for hours without sleeping with BT on, but turning it off (with siri or control center, very simple) causes it to sleep very quickly. Could be an explanation for people that say their car sleeps fine at work but not at home.


I just tested it by leaving my iPhoneX literally 3ft from the car with Bluetooth on after walking 10ft away until it locked. It shutdown in like 3 minutes.

Also I've had the car unplugged for 11 hours. It's lost 1 mile range. I did wake it to check it 3 times. It shutdown in a few minutes every time. Heat is OFF all WiFi pairs deleted. Never seen it behave this good in 4 months.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

mswlogo said:


> I just tested it by leaving my iPhoneX literally 3ft from the car with Bluetooth on after walking 10ft away until it locked. It shutdown in like 3 minutes.
> 
> Also I've had the car unplugged for 11 hours. It's lost 1 mile range. I did wake it to check it 3 times. It shutdown in a few minutes every time. Heat is OFF all WiFi pairs deleted. Never seen it behave this good in 4 months.


Yup. If you could report it to Tesla, I and others would appreciate it. I
They've told me "techs are looking into the problem".


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

Needsdecaf said:


> Yup. If you could report it to Tesla, I and others would appreciate it. I
> They've told me "techs are looking into the problem".


I want to narrow down heat vs WiFi first. I'm 99% sure it is WIFI too. But I'm suspecting heat might aggravate it and be the main power draw when it doesn't sleep correctly. If they test Sleep in Sunny CA it might no draw so much even when it stays awake a lot. Just a hunch it's related.


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## Magnets! (Jan 10, 2019)

mswlogo said:


> Does the car auto lock? It needs be extremely close to unlock. I find the phone needs to be in the car to stay awake.
> Mine auto locks before I exit the 2 car garage.


Yes auto locks just fine when leaving the garage. But that's not the same as 'sleeping'.


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## Magnets! (Jan 10, 2019)

mswlogo said:


> No way I'll be shutting off bluetooth every time I leave the car. That would be a nightmare. Unless your phone is VERY close, bluetooth should not matter.
> 
> The only bluetooth "active" once your car is locked is the auto-locking. That is Bluetooth LE and has very little range.
> 
> The WIFI does make some sense that it could be impacting things (actively connected or not). Bluetooth on your phone makes very little sense to be impacting things. Could be something funky with the App behavior if it sees bluetooth is off. But that would be a real stretch.


Bluetooth LE has a range of up to 330ft. I would venture many of us live this close to our cars in our garages. How do I know it remains connected? Because the Tesla app says so. The IOS widget reports either parked or asleep status.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

Magnets! said:


> Bluetooth LE has a range of up to 330ft. I would venture many of us live this close to our cars in our garages. How do I know it remains connected? Because the Tesla app says so. The IOS widget reports either parked or asleep status.


The app works through LTE also...


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

Needsdecaf said:


> Yup. If you could report it to Tesla, I and others would appreciate it. I
> They've told me "techs are looking into the problem".


Car switched to brain dead mode this morning. It has been stuck on for the last 3 hours or so. And losing about 1 mph.
WIFI is still disabled and Heat Still Off.

It is possible it's doing a OTA download, but I doubt it.

It did great for like 36 hours before this. Only losing like 2 miles.

It's definitely a problem but I'm not sure how I would describe it. I've complained to Tesla before, for it in general, not shutting down a while back.

It doesn't bother me getting the normal 2% AVERAGE loss a day. But when it clearly is not shutting down and chewing up 1 mph it's a problem.

Maybe I will try turning off "Phone as key" (which I love and works well) and see what that does.

It seemed to wake itself this morning and just won't shut off.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

mswlogo said:


> Car switched to brain dead mode this morning. It has been stuck on for the last 3 hours or so. And losing about 1 mph.
> WIFI is still disabled and Heat Still Off.


Could this be the "awake for 6 hours periodically" behavior for cold weather, even though (IIRC) you have a garage and the weather is a little warmer today? See if it goes to sleep after the six-hour mark.


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## Magnets! (Jan 10, 2019)

Needsdecaf said:


> The app works through LTE also...


The app shows my bluetooth key is connected...this is not about how the app connects to the car.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

Magnets! said:


> The app shows my bluetooth key is connected...this is not about how the app connects to the car.


You didn't specify that. You just said "the app said so". I wasn't sure what you were trying to say.


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

Bokonon said:


> Could this be the "awake for 6 hours periodically" behavior for cold weather, even though (IIRC) you have a garage and the weather is a little warmer today? See if it goes to sleep after the six-hour mark.


Is that a known thing? Yes, it was in a garage. Yes, it's a bit warmer. Maybe it's happy and coming out of hibernation mode.

What would it achieve by being awake (running some sort of pump/fan turning on the Car Radio Amps) for 6 hours when cold?
It's obviously not heating the battery (it would draw way more power). It's not heating the cabin (again it would be way more power). It's not preventing a snowflake. It's not in battery protection mode (not that cold).

How often is "periodic"? If it's on the order of once a day that will be a minimum of 6 miles (plus normal vampire drain). Not terrible, but a little steep.

I finally plugged it in. Maybe 30 minutes after that it shut off. I don't think it ran for 6 hours. But it could have. The garage was warming up as well.

I'd like to understand more about the 6 hour thing. Is the 6 hour thing misleading folks into things like WIFI disabled, Bluetooth off as a "fix" to this semi-random (but well understood, documented event)?

Sorry for all the questions but this is the first I've heard of it and I already read these forum WAY to much


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

Magnets! said:


> The app shows my bluetooth key is connected...this is not about how the app connects to the car.


So are you saying you have zero sleep issues with effectively disabling "phone as key".
Curious why you were asking specifics about the "WIFI culprit" if you already have no sleep issue by turning off bluetooth.

Also if you have to toggle bluetooth every time you get in and out of the car it would be less hassle to just, disable phone as key and use the key card and leave bluetooth on.

I may try your suggestion if all else fails. Still curious about the 6 hour wake thing in the post above. Maybe there is no sleep issue and working as designed.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

mswlogo said:


> How often is "periodic"? If it's on the order of once a day that will be a minimum of 6 miles (plus normal vampire drain). Not terrible, but a little steep.


Yup, it is on the order of once a day. Have a look at this thread:

Car periodically wakes up for several hours

Basically, in cold weather, when not charging, the car will wake up about once a day (give or take) and stay awake for six hours. While awake, it exercises the charge port latch every 1-2 seconds to keep it from freezing. (You can tell it's doing this because you'll hear a faint ticking sound coming from the charge port assembly.) There may be other activities that it performs during this time that we have yet to identify. But we know that the cold-weather charge point mode is a thing, because there's a new data field in the owner API that is set to "True" when the port is ticking: 

```
charge_port_cold_weather_mode=True
```



mswlogo said:


> Is the 6 hour thing misleading folks into things like WIFI disabled, Bluetooth off as a "fix" to this semi-random (but well understood, documented event)?


It could be causing some confusion around the edges for those of us up north, but I don't know that it explains all of the insomniac behavior that people have been reporting in this thread... especially someone like @Needsdecaf who lives in a warmer area and can somehow make the car sleep by opening/closing a door.


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

Bokonon said:


> Yup, it is on the order of once a day. Have a look at this thread:
> 
> Car periodically wakes up for several hours
> 
> ...


Thanks for clarifying. I just found that thread you linked and was going to post it here. Still looks like fairly new breaking news discoveries.

I'm gonna put things back to normal. And just verify if it's only the 24 + 6 Hour cold thing. I have heard the ticking charger lock thing (sounds like a real hack to me).

If I recall when I first got the car when it was well above freezing it would also not sleep for many hours. I had since ignored it and recently started to focus on it again with the arctic blast and the high rate of threads on the topic (probably for the same reasons).

I won't rule out WIFI or Bluetooth relation to sleeping though.

I think I've seen the charge port thing tick thing with it plugged in as well. Not sure what that means. And I've think I've heard it ticking when I first got the car in September, when it was warm.

I'm sure you must have seen the Video from the guy in Canada with the Beta Charge port that doesn't freeze. Maybe that tag your car as not needing the software hack one you get the new charge port.
That API snippet is interesting.

I think we should plan a live conference (physical or web) on these issues and get a Tesla Rep to show up, strength in numbers


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

Bokonon said:


> It could be causing some confusion around the edges for those of us up north, but I don't know that it explains all of the insomniac behavior that people have been reporting in this thread... especially someone like @Needsdecaf who lives in a warmer area and can somehow make the car sleep by opening/closing a door.


Yeah, I'm not sure what the heck that was all about. But if you note toward the end of that thread, I said it wasn't working any more. But killing the wifi connection certainly has.


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

Needsdecaf said:


> Yeah, I'm not sure what the heck that was all about. But if you note toward the end of that thread, I said it wasn't working any more. But killing the wifi connection certainly has.


I've gone back to my normal routine with wifi enabled and plugged in (not necessarily with a charge session) and will watch closely how it behaves (no apps).
It slept perfectly last night (WIFI on and connection in reach, plugged in) 0 miles lost. I have lost miles with it plugged in before and not had it sleep for many hours before.

I'm curious if the this 6 hour wake thing still fires if I plug in nightly. If it does or doesn't there is not much I can do about it.
But it's possible all my gripes are just the 6 hour wake thing. That's not great by any means but I can deal with it.

It's warm today, Over 32 so I have that variable to deal with too and might not be able to conclude anything for a while.

If it does any worse than it did with the WIFI off (which was pretty good except for that 6 hour wake thing), I'll try Wifi off again.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

mswlogo said:


> I'm curious if the this 6 hour wake thing still fires if I plug in nightly.


If you leave the car plugged in and idle for over 24 hours, yes, the cold-weather charge-port mode will activate on its own. When I went on vacation over Christmas, I left the car plugged in, and it woke up for 6 hours every 24 hours.

For the weekday driving case where you plug in and night and are back on the road the next morning, I'm less sure of how the timing works. I've seen my car stay awake at work (no Wi-Fi connection) to exercise the latch all morning (~3-4 hours) and then fall asleep immediately after my drive to get lunch, but on other days, it falls asleep within 15 minutes of arrival. And at home, there are other variables at play -- I have a Wi-Fi connection (of varying strength, depending on where in the driveway I've parked), so there may be other reasons why my car stays awake for 1-2 hours after arrival.

When the weather turns cold again, I may try deleting the Wi-Fi connection for a couple of days and see what happens. I may also try pinging the car through the API more often while it's awake to get a better understanding of when the cold-weather charge-port behavior is active.


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

Bokonon said:


> If you leave the car plugged in and idle for over 24 hours, yes, the cold-weather charge-port mode will activate on its own. When I went on vacation over Christmas, I left the car plugged in, and it woke up for 6 hours every 24 hours.
> 
> For the weekday driving case where you plug in and night and are back on the road the next morning, I'm less sure of how the timing works. I've seen my car stay awake at work (no Wi-Fi connection) to exercise the latch all morning (~3-4 hours) and then fall asleep immediately after my drive to get lunch, but on other days, it falls asleep within 15 minutes of arrival. And at home, there are other variables at play -- I have a Wi-Fi connection (of varying strength, depending on where in the driveway I've parked), so there may be other reasons why my car stays awake for 1-2 hours after arrival.
> 
> When the weather turns cold again, I may try deleting the Wi-Fi connection for a couple of days and see what happens. I may also try pinging the car through the API more often while it's awake to get a better understanding of when the cold-weather charge-port behavior is active.


Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Does the 24 Timer keep running no matter what or reset with a drive or charge or plug cycle. I can believe if left idle and plugged in, it would still kick in.

I have certainly had the car not sleep for many hours if on a daily drive/plugin cycle. But I'm not sure what this recent 50.6 will do in that regard. I have a feeling it will still do the 6 hour wake thing.

I sure wish Tesla Service people knew what the car was supposed to do, because they were clueless.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

Bokonon said:


> If you leave the car plugged in and idle for over 24 hours, yes, the cold-weather charge-port mode will activate on its own. When I went on vacation over Christmas, I left the car plugged in, and it woke up for 6 hours every 24 hours.
> 
> For the weekday driving case where you plug in and night and are back on the road the next morning, I'm less sure of how the timing works. I've seen my car stay awake at work (no Wi-Fi connection) to exercise the latch all morning (~3-4 hours) and then fall asleep immediately after my drive to get lunch, but on other days, it falls asleep within 15 minutes of arrival. And at home, there are other variables at play -- I have a Wi-Fi connection (of varying strength, depending on where in the driveway I've parked), so there may be other reasons why my car stays awake for 1-2 hours after arrival.
> 
> When the weather turns cold again, I may try deleting the Wi-Fi connection for a couple of days and see what happens. I may also try pinging the car through the API more often while it's awake to get a better understanding of when the cold-weather charge-port behavior is active.


Interesting. I guess this only happens in cold weather?

I didn't drive the Model 3 yesterday. Car finished charging at 2:30 AM on Sunday and slept all the way until 6:45 AM on Monday when I woke it up. So 28 hours of sleep with zero wakeups.


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

Another data point. 

Parked at work today. WiFi on not within reach of connecting. 8 hours unplugged. 

It gained 1 mile  it did not have a snow flake. But temps did rise a lot.

Temps were probably to high to kick in cold weather charge port heating for 6 hours.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

Needsdecaf said:


> Interesting. I guess this only happens in cold weather?


Yeah, the wake-up to exercise the latch is a cold weather behavior. I'm not sure at what specific temperature it kicks in though... My unscientific impression is that it's somewhere in the mid to upper 30s Fahrenheit.


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

Another datapoint. Last night plugged in, on WiFi in range, lost 2 miles. All day today, unplugged, WiFi on and out of range, lost nothing. I don’t think the 6 hour wake thing is happening. But I won’t be shocked if it decides to. And I’ll make sure it doesn’t go longer than 6 hours.


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

mswlogo said:


> Another datapoint. Last night plugged in, on WiFi in range, lost 2 miles. All day today, unplugged, WiFi on and out of range, lost nothing. I don't think the 6 hour wake thing is happening. But I won't be shocked if it decides to. And I'll make sure it doesn't go longer than 6 hours.


For me every time I am parked outside Wifi ON and out of range, cold out and I loose 1-2% and car takes forever to sleep. I tried telling this to the SC guys and they are not ready to listen.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

mswlogo said:


> Another datapoint. Last night plugged in, on WiFi in range, lost 2 miles. All day today, unplugged, WiFi on and out of range, lost nothing. I don't think the 6 hour wake thing is happening. But I won't be shocked if it decides to. And I'll make sure it doesn't go longer than 6 hours.


We should see some colder temperatures this weekend. If you let your car stay parked and not-charging for more than 24 hours during that period, it will probably do the wake-up-for-six thing at some point. I don't think it has been cold enough to activate that mode over the last few days here.


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

Bokonon said:


> We should see some colder temperatures this weekend. If you let your car stay parked and not-charging for more than 24 hours during that period, it will probably do the wake-up-for-six thing at some point. I don't think it has been cold enough to activate that mode over the last few days here.


Yes, it appears I might have already run into that. What I'm curious about is, if I regularly plugin every night (which I normally do), when cold, will it avoid hitting the cars 6 hour caffeine high.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

mswlogo said:


> Yes, it appears I might have already run into that. What I'm curious about is, if I regularly plugin every night (which I normally do), when cold, will it avoid hitting the cars 6 hour caffeine high.


Assuming you're driving every day, it *should* avoid the six-hour awake period... but it may still stay awake and exercise the latch for a shorter period after the drive. That's what mine seems to do, but I have additional complicating factors (TeslaFi, occasionally weak Wi-Fi).

Remind me, do you have charging set to begin as soon as you plug in, or is it on a delay?


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

I eliminated apps (changed passsword) for now and only allow Tesla’s app to connect. And when WIFI connects it’s strong. 

BTW some days I lose LTE and others not. Parking in the exact same spot. When I get in I see a slash through LTE strength meter. But the act of waking it, by getting in, it instantly gets 2 bars, and streaming works (after giving it a nudge) etc. without moving the car. Most days it doesn’t do this. But it should have signal albeit weak but decides to just shut LTE off. Maybe if it gets X amount of errors (due to weak signal) it decides to shut off and save power rather than keep trying what it thinks is a lost cause. I suspect once it does go off it never comes back without manually waking car (opening a door).


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## Jph112233 (Feb 7, 2019)

Same for me. Home on wifi takes 3+ hours to sleep, as tracked on TeslaFi. Turn off wifi in the car and it sleeps within 3-5 min. 

Also sleeps within 3-5 min off wifi away from home.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

Data point: tonight, the car stayed awake for about 2.5 hours after parking. It was connected to WiFi (2 bars), 35 degrees ambient temperature, and no cold-weather charge-port latch movement that I could hear through the rain. It fell asleep before I could confirm the charge port mode via the API.


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

Bokonon said:


> Data point: tonight, the car stayed awake for about 2.5 hours after parking. It was connected to WiFi (2 bars), 35 degrees ambient temperature, and no cold-weather charge-port latch movement that I could hear through the rain. It fell asleep before I could confirm the charge port mode via the API.


I hear the charge port clicking pretty much any time the car is awake and parked (and probably cool). Sometimes it can be hard to hear.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

I had a mobile appointment today to fix a few things and one of the items was this. I told the mobile service tech that deleting the wifi allowed it to sleep. He suggested that if I was on a home network that kept track of the devices, that it was likely constantly pinging the car to update it's connection status. I switched to Xfinity last summer and it does have a router with software that shows me what connections are active and allows me to shut off connection to devices one by one. I also have a meshed wireless network of three access points and that's the actual access point that I gave the car access to. 

I don't know enough about WiFi to know that if all routers work this way, or only some do. But maybe that's causing the issue?


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

Update: A pattern has been developing. Almost every day at work it has had 0 lost miles. One day even went up 1 mile. At night, plugged in, wifi on and in reach, not charging it has been losing 2-3 miles maybe even slightly more. One night might have got 0 loss. I thought perhaps it was because the pack was cooling at night and warming during the day. And it's not a real reading. Hard to say when I have to drive it in between. And if I let it sit for day then the 6 hour thing kicks in. So I can't measure the real average vampire drain.

I have not heard it staying awake at night but it could have. And I'm not running any apps.

But tonight it decided to not sleep when I got home. It has slept fairly quickly every time. So first I shut wifi off in the house so I didn't have to touch the car. No change after 30 minutes. Finally went in the car turned off wifi (by unpairing). Unplugged car, drove it a foot, parked and plugged in again. Still won't sleep. Today was 35F and garage, it's in, is 51F.

Will be curious if it shuts down after 6 hours. I'm sure it will lose 5-6 miles during that period.

BTW, had heat off all week. Four, 10 mile round trip commutes to work. This is like worst case efficiency 8 short trips. 200 wh/mi average for 40 miles (AWD) and that's with 70% limited regen at around 35F 
It got a little hairy when it was raining at 32F. I used the fluid instead to keep windshield from icing up. I wanted to see if I could make a full week. Just for fun.


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

Needsdecaf said:


> I had a mobile appointment today to fix a few things and one of the items was this. I told the mobile service tech that deleting the wifi allowed it to sleep. He suggested that if I was on a home network that kept track of the devices, that it was likely constantly pinging the car to update it's connection status. I switched to Xfinity last summer and it does have a router with software that shows me what connections are active and allows me to shut off connection to devices one by one. I also have a meshed wireless network of three access points and that's the actual access point that I gave the car access to.
> 
> I don't know enough about WiFi to know that if all routers work this way, or only some do. But maybe that's causing the issue?


Anything is possible. Any router will show a list of active connections. I don't believe routers actively ping clients to keep that list. They don't need too. Clients actively connect to routers and the router is just sharing the list of active connections. You can't "ping" a computer unless it IS connected.

I don't know the details of mesh setups. But maybe the car is bouncing between two nodes and that "resets" a timer in the car to think it's a fresh connection.

I'm testing WiFi off again with my normal "routine". The First time I tried wifi off was with an abnormal routine that ran into the 24 sleep / 6 awake when cold issue. Now Back to my "normal" plug in every night but only charge ad-hoc one, I had one "long awake" event with WiFi on. And it did not go the 6 hours but 4. The Car might have warmed up and terminated the 6 hour awake thing early. It was around 45F after car being out in 35F.

So it's gonna take a good week to conclude WiFi Off helps again. It might be a shorter test if it fails soon. My gut feeling is it makes no difference for me. And the 6 hour awake doesn't seem to care if you've charged or plugged in (really dumb). It definitely sleeps quickly while on WiFi normally. It's those odd long wake events that are puzzling. And when in that stay away state nothing seems to matter.

So your WiFi issue might be different than what some others are trying to sort out. If it stays awake more than 10 minutes every time you get home only in Wifi, then I'd say you have a less common issue that needs to be sorted out.

One idea, if I was in your situation, and your mesh hunch is into something. Especially if your problem is easy to repeat. Can you test with only one node in your mesh?

The long random-ish 6 hour awake issue is nerve wracking because I worry some day it's well below 0F, battery low (not a planned situation) and I have to leave the car for a long period and it's doing this stupid thing.

I sure wish I could turn the "cold weather" package OFF. Since it's obviously "beta".


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

So as a lark, I decided to connect the car back to WiFi today when it wasn’t charging. Sure enough, it wouldn’t go to sleep. I gave it an hour, then deleted the WiFi. It still wouldn’t sleep. I went out, and it finally slept when I was parked there for about 150 minutes. And when I got back home, it went to sleep right on the 30 minute mark. 

Definitely a bug related to WiFi.


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## GKR (Sep 26, 2018)

mswlogo said:


> I don't think this is Tesla's problem. You said in prior post you were measuring with "Teslafi.com". I think that's your problem.
> 
> https://support.teslafi.com/knowled...enabling-sleep-settings-to-limit-vampire-loss
> 
> ...


I don't think it is TeslaFi problem. I don't use TeslaFi, and I have exactly the same issue with the car not sleeping, and pump running all night long. Loses 10-12 mi/day.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

In anticipation of the new software coming out, I enabled WiFi last night when I got home from work. I didn't plug in as I had to go back out in about 90 minutes. Sure enough, car never slept. 

Got home later and plugged in, car charged and then slept within 32 minutes of charging finishing. WiFi still on. 

This morning, car slept in 31 minutes after parking. WiFi still enabled but obviously not connected. 

This is really strange.


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

I'm about ready to turn my Wifi back on again (also to get the new update). My car will usually turn off within 10 minutes. When it doesn't it stays on for hours.
I can tell my car had a sleepless night by how many miles it lost. If it stayed asleep. It's 0-2 miles max over 12-20 hours.
But I if I see like 5 miles lost, I know it had one of those long no sleep spells. And I still can't see any pattern to allow me to somehow mitigate it.
Regardless of plugging in, charging, driving, or WIFI. But I still haven't quite ruled out that Wifi being disabled hasn't helped.

It's funny, the last time I disabled wifi (by removing all pairings), within a day or so it popped a warning that I should pair my car to WIFI.
It has not done that this time around.

I'm trying to stay away from apps to remove their influence. So it's hard to monitor it, at all times with no app monitoring it.

One extra way I know what's going on is I have a Bluetooth device hooked to the power line going to rear Sub-Amp. And my phone alerts me when that Bluetooth device connects.
Our bedroom as almost over the garage, and I will get an alert in the middle of the night that it connected. Ugh. I also know when the car is already awake when I walk up to it.
Sometimes it's hard to hear the pump is running outdoors. But the phone tells me if it's been awake.

Yeah, when that pump noise is heard all the amps are powered up too. I guess it wants to listen to music over the CAN bus while it pulses the (empty) charge port lock, when it's 40F outside for 6 hours.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

I have completely eliminated TeslaFi as a source of this issue. The behavior is consistent for me. WiFi on and not plugged in at home = stay awake. WiFi on and plugged in at home = charge, then sleep. WiFi on and away from home = sleep. WiFi off and at home = sleep no matter plugged in or not. 

Sounds like you are doing a good job monitoring it without. If you have an iOS phone, you can install the widget which will tell you sleeping or not without waking the car. Just swipe to the widget screen and it will show you the status.


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

Needsdecaf said:


> I have completely eliminated TeslaFi as a source of this issue. The behavior is consistent for me. WiFi on and not plugged in at home = stay awake. WiFi on and plugged in at home = charge, then sleep. WiFi on and away from home = sleep. WiFi off and at home = sleep no matter plugged in or not.
> 
> Sounds like you are doing a good job monitoring it without. If you have an iOS phone, you can install the widget which will tell you sleeping or not without waking the car. Just swipe to the widget screen and it will show you the status.


I was even afraid to run the widget because I was concerned it could cause more waking. I have to prove to myself it doesn't.

It's hard to prove anything when it randomly wakes itself for long periods without any other influence. I'm tempted to try and Jam the LTE to see what that does


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

mswlogo said:


> I was even afraid to run the widget because I was concerned it could cause more waking. I have to prove to myself it doesn't.
> 
> It's hard to prove anything when it randomly wakes itself for long periods without any other influence. I'm tempted to try and Jam the LTE to see what that does


I can tell you for sure using TeslaFi that pulling up the widget does not wake the car.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

The plot thickens...

Yesterday I washed the car (I frigging HATE cleaning the wheels, BTW). I had the car outside and the car was active as I left my phone in it (deliberately) while washing. Then I did the windows and had the doors open for a while. 

Parked up but did not plug in and voila, the car slept. On Wi-Fi. And it’s been sleeping ever since. 

WTF?!?


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

Needsdecaf said:


> The plot thickens...
> 
> Yesterday I washed the car (I frigging HATE cleaning the wheels, BTW). I had the car outside and the car was active as I left my phone in it (deliberately) while washing. Then I did the windows and had the doors open for a while.
> 
> ...


It knows it's being loved, so it took a nap.


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## GKR (Sep 26, 2018)

Needsdecaf said:


> The plot thickens...
> 
> Yesterday I washed the car (I frigging HATE cleaning the wheels, BTW). I had the car outside and the car was active as I left my phone in it (deliberately) while washing. Then I did the windows and had the doors open for a while.
> 
> ...


Did you by any chance lock the car using your phone? See this post.

https://teslaownersonline.com/goto/post?id=171391


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

I spent some time analyzing my past 2 month's of data from Teslafi and have the following observations which confirm a number of things being discussed here:

When the car is anywhere but home, it almost always sleeps in 11 minutes. (I have Teslafi set to 8 min idle time before trying to sleep.)
When the car has been out on a drive and comes home and connects to WiFi, it takes 2 hours to fall asleep. (This surprised me that it is ALWAYS true, even if it has already gone through multiple 2-hour wake cycles earlier that day. Even if it's just completed a 6 hour wake cycle discussed below.)
After that initial 2 hours, it falls asleep and stays asleep. If I get in the car and wake it up (but don't drive), it falls back asleep easily afterwards.
Turning off WiFi (forgetting my home network) causes the car to fall asleep in 11 minutes at home, just like it does everywhere else.
I've found no differences in the sleep/awake behavior based on it being plugged in or not.
When not driven for 24 hours, it then wakes up and stays awake for 6 hours. (Timing actually varies between 21 hours and 30 hours before the 6 hour wake period starts, but I'll nominally call it 24.)
If that 6 hour awake cycle is interrupted with a drive, it seems to complete the 6 hour wake cycle when the drive completes. This explains every occurrence for me of when I was at work and the car unexpectedly did not go to sleep right away.
My only other instance of long periods of awake (other than at home and on WiFi) was a trip I took where after a couple of days, it stayed awake close to 6 hours (4+ hours, then I drove some, then another 1.5 hours awake). EDIT: It had not sat unused, so this wake cycle seems different from what I've observed at home.
I am now planning to enter a testing phase for a few weeks without WiFi. A number of you have already done this and report better sleeping (which I too have seen in my spot checks) but is there a discernible longer cycle of when the car will be awake? Based on my last bullet above, I expect it will still need to be awake for some periods, as I understand there is some "stuff" it needs to take care of.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

Needsdecaf said:


> I can tell you for sure using TeslaFi that pulling up the widget does not wake the car.


I have some questions about the Tesla widget. Right now, after 9 pm, it is reporting the status of my car from 2:06 this afternoon. However, since then, it has gone on multiple drives and is now back home asleep. Why is it listing the status from 7 hours ago? If I push the circle button which I assume should update the status, it says "waking up," but after circling for awhile it returns to telling me the car is asleep (true) but continues to say it was updated at 2:06. So will this always give me a true current state of the car without altering that state? Why is it listing an old time?


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

GKR said:


> Did you by any chance lock the car using your phone? See this post.
> 
> https://teslaownersonline.com/goto/post?id=171391


Nope.

This was the only time it worked. Didn't go to sleep after I opened the door to grab my sunglasses.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

+1 to all the behaviors @Bigriver summarized above.

Has anyone with an advanced Wi-Fi router monitored their car's network activity while it's staying awake? We know that the car can upload logs and video clips captured from Autopilot disengagements and shadow-mode exercises, and while these are probably not that large in size, I'm wondering whether there is some additional interaction that occurs with the mothership that causes the car to stay awake.

I'm upgrading my home network from a stone-age router to Google WiFi tomorrow, so I'll see if its usage metrics offer any insight.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

Bokonon said:


> I'm upgrading my home network from a stone-age router to Google WiFi tomorrow, so I'll see if its usage metrics offer any insight.


I'll be very interested in what you learn. I had thought of this same thing, but don't seem to have any capability to see activity to each device.


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

Bigriver said:


> I spent some time analyzing my past 2 month's of data from Teslafi and have the following observations which confirm a number of things being discussed here:
> 
> When the car is anywhere but home, it almost always sleeps in 11 minutes. (I have Teslafi set to 8 min idle time before trying to sleep.)
> When the car has been out on a drive and comes home and connects to WiFi, it takes 2 hours to fall asleep. (This surprised me that it is ALWAYS true, even if it has already gone through multiple 2-hour wake cycles earlier that day. Even if it's just completed a 6 hour wake cycle discussed below.)
> ...


Mine normally shuts down fine when I get home (Wifi on or off). It just hits those weird 6 hour periods it insists on staying awake, and it's hard to figure out what "resets" that 24 hour period. Because sometimes I'll go several days of good sleeping, on a normal routine of work and back, and spans of days it will sprinkle in that 6 hours awake thing. I've had it sit there, sleeping, without touching anything, wake up and stay awakes for hours (I don't time the 6 hours every time), but it's a very long time.

Some of the randomness I think is due to temperature.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

Bigriver said:


> I'll be very interested in what you learn. I had thought of this same thing, but don't seem to have any capability to see activity to each device.


You can see data size transmitted/received by device within the last week, day, or in real-time. The daily graph interval is an hour.

I want to see what the real-time/daily view shows immediately after the car connects to WiFi, locks, etc. Teslafi should be polling over LTE, so in theory I should only see traffic initiated by the car itself.

Another experiment I want to try will be allowing the car to connect to WiFi, but blocking its access to the internet... See if that is equivalent to having no WiFi at all.

So far today, my car has been awake for a couple of hours to charge -- I haven't even unlocked it -- and it has already uploaded 2.3 MB and downloaded 1.4 MB.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

And today mine will not sleep while at work! First time this has ever happened. I went downstairs to the parking garage and shut off the wifi, and re-locked the car and still no dice. Will see what happens when I go out for lunch.

Strange!


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

I had a little time to play at work today (hardly anyone showed up on this half holiday ).
I can trace anything connected to our network via Wireshark. I'm sure this has been done many times.
I normally don't have the car connect to work WIFI, normally to far from where I park (far away from door dingers).

What's funny though, the car was all sleeping nice, as soon as I did connect it, it didn't sleep. Ugh.

Anyway, it was a constant chatter to Amazon Servers while it sat locked and awake.

Then I went out to the car, and streamed a couple songs via slacker by clicking next, next and then saved that capture and summarize that activity below.

The car is talking to a lot of stuff. Mostly music related.

The car is 10.112.111.119


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

@Needsdecaf, in the spirit of someone also on the journey to figure this thing out, i have some questions and perhaps possible explanations for several of the items you've posted about. As I obviously don't know all the details of each of your situations, I only offer some thoughts based on what you've said about them and my own experience.



Needsdecaf said:


> WiFi on and not plugged in at home = stay awake. WiFi on and plugged in at home = charge, then sleep.


Are you charging as soon as you get home? Is it perhaps taking at least 2 hours to charge? If you come home, on WiFi and don't charge, it doesn't stay awake all night, does it? The 2 hour awake behavior I noted in point #2 of post #75 is such an absolute for my car. I am very curious if it is what you experience if you don't charge right away. And if you are charging right away, I think it is just camouflaging the initial wake period when arriving home and being on WiFi. 


Needsdecaf said:


> Yesterday I washed the car.... Parked up but did not plug in and voila, the car slept. On Wi-Fi. And it's been sleeping ever since.


The "2 hour rule" might explain this. If I move the car into the driveway to wash it, it does not seem to count as a drive. So at the end of it all, if you had been at home on WiFi for at least 2 hours, it makes sense that it went to sleep after you were done washing it. (Point #3 in post #75.)



Needsdecaf said:


> And today mine will not sleep while at work! First time this has ever happened.


Random times of my Tesla's not sleeping at work have puzzled me more than anything. I've only got a few that have happened for the model 3, and they were all solved by what I explained as point #7 in post #75. Was the car already in a wake cycle when you started the drive this morning?


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

mswlogo said:


> Mine normally shuts down fine when I get home (Wifi on or off). It just hits those weird 6 hour periods it insists on staying awake, and it's hard to figure out what "resets" that 24 hour period. Because sometimes I'll go several days of good sleeping, on a normal routine of work and back, and spans of days it will sprinkle in that 6 hours awake thing. I've had it sit there, sleeping, without touching anything, wake up and stay awakes for hours (I don't time the 6 hours every time), but it's a very long time.
> 
> Some of the randomness I think is due to temperature.


So if you get home, WiFi is on, how soon does it go to sleep? And is your WiFi strong enough that it is definitely connected?

The sprinkling in of 6 hours being awake (or broken into pieces of 6 hours) is what I expect to see during my long term trial of having it disconnected from WiFi. And anxious to see if I can discern any pattern to it. But yes, it just wakes up with no provocation.

I've also thought temperature would be a factor, but did not see any correlation when I looked at my info relative to temperature. I know that others have reported that this is a part of the cold weather changes, but I also have not seen anything that confirms this, but I've only had the model 3 in cold weather.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

Bigriver said:


> @Needsdecaf, in the spirit of someone also on the journey to figure this thing out, i have some questions and perhaps possible explanations for several of the items you've posted about. As I obviously don't know all the details of each of your situations, I only offer some thoughts based on what you've said about them and my own experience.
> 
> Are you charging as soon as you get home? Is it perhaps taking at least 2 hours to charge? If you come home, on WiFi and don't charge, it doesn't stay awake all night, does it? The 2 hour awake behavior I noted in point #2 of post #75 is such an absolute for my car. I am very curious if it is what you experience if you don't charge right away. And if you are charging right away, I think it is just camouflaging the initial wake period when arriving home and being on WiFi.
> 
> ...


Generally I charge as soon as I get home.

Yesterday I woke the car up around 3:00 to grab my sunglasses out of it. It never went to sleep after that until I plugged it in at 9. So it definitely had a lot more than 2 hours before it slept.


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

My car was not sleeping most of the day because I (apparently) connected to work WIFI to run wireshark. Got home and it still wouldn't shutdown. Turned off WIFI and within 5 minutes it went to sleep.
It lost 9 miles on Sunday too (sitting in garage all day), so it should have already had a good fix of charge port massaging.

Maybe I'll add another access point and power it through a smartthings switch. So I can put the car on WIFI from my phone


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

Bigriver said:


> So if you get home, WiFi is on, how soon does it go to sleep? And is your WiFi strong enough that it is definitely connected?
> 
> The sprinkling in of 6 hours being awake (or broken into pieces of 6 hours) is what I expect to see during my long term trial of having it disconnected from WiFi. And anxious to see if I can discern any pattern to it. But yes, it just wakes up with no provocation.
> 
> I've also thought temperature would be a factor, but did not see any correlation when I looked at my info relative to temperature. I know that others have reported that this is a part of the cold weather changes, but I also have not seen anything that confirms this, but I've only had the model 3 in cold weather.


So I tried to tell SC what i am experiencing and they told me to diagnose the car remotely and told me not to bring the car in which seemed fair. Still frustrated though that they are not ready to listen when I told them there might be a issue.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

So interesting data point. I am at work, checked in on the car on TeslaFi and it had been sleeping for a few hours right on schedule. I pushed an address to the car from Google Maps on my phone and it instantly woke the car up. I wasn't sure if it would send it right away or query it once I got in and woke the car up. Seems like it is the former.

Interestingly, the car went right back to sleep. So it didn't trigger TeslaFi to start polling, and then allow the 30 minute delay. It was quick enough to not alert TeslaFi. 

Nothing earth shattering or seemingly wrong, but just an interesting tidbit into how the car manages data.


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

Needsdecaf said:


> So interesting data point. I am at work, checked in on the car on TeslaFi and it had been sleeping for a few hours right on schedule. I pushed an address to the car from Google Maps on my phone and it instantly woke the car up. I wasn't sure if it would send it right away or query it once I got in and woke the car up. Seems like it is the former.
> 
> Interestingly, the car went right back to sleep. So it didn't trigger TeslaFi to start polling, and then allow the 30 minute delay. It was quick enough to not alert TeslaFi.
> 
> Nothing earth shattering or seemingly wrong, but just an interesting tidbit into how the car manages data.


So model S and X I think has a low power mode. I don't understand why we can't have that on Model 3


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

webdriverguy said:


> So model S and X I think has a low power mode. I don't understand why we can't have that on Model 3


I'd love that. No updates, no remote, no cold weather crap, just go to deep sleep when I walk away. Only thing I'd want would be phone as key.

Hmmm, wait a sec, I wonder if we turned off phone as key, it might sleep better? Might be worth another test.


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

mswlogo said:


> I'd love that. No updates, no remote, no cold weather crap, just go to deep sleep when I walk away. Only thing I'd want would be phone as key.
> 
> Hmmm, wait a sec, I wonder if we turned off phone as key, it might sleep better? Might be worth another test.


I don't get why tesla can't enable turning of the car from the app when parked at home/ airport. Rest of the cases we can put it in low power mode.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

webdriverguy said:


> So model S and X I think has a low power mode. I don't understand why we can't have that on Model 3


I'm not sure what low power mode you are referring to.... and be careful what you wish for. I am having more trouble deciphering my Model X's sleep/wake behavior than my Model 3. The X has wake cycles about twice as long as the 3 and nothing I've been able to figure out the how/what/when/why. The one thing I do know is that if I inadvertently wake the X when I get into the Tesla app for the 3 (they are on same account), the X will stay awake for 12+ hours.


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

Bigriver said:


> I'm not sure what low power mode you are referring to.... and be careful what you wish for. I am having more trouble deciphering my Model X's sleep/wake behavior than my Model 3. The X has wake cycles about twice as long as the 3 and nothing I've been able to figure out the how/what/when/why. The one thing I do know is that if I inadvertently wake the X when I get into the Tesla app for the 3 (they are on same account), the X will stay awake for 12+ hours.


You should contact tesla about your x staying awake for 12+ hours. That does not sound right to me.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

webdriverguy said:


> You should contact tesla about your x staying awake for 12+ hours. That does not sound right to me.


They make no promises about wake/sleep cycles. Actually, users manuals are silent on the existence of these cycles. But they do give guidance of losing only approximately 1% a day. So I did contact Tesla when the X went through a phase of losing more than 3% a day and it was in a relatively warm garage. 4 different people called me back within a few days on that, but always seeming to just be gathering a description of the problem from me. Then they went silent. And then the car got better - much closer to 1% loss and the awake period of 12 hours is an improvement from multiple days it was sometimes going, I've never known if they did something remotely or not. Some of it may be that we got a lot better at rarely inadvertently waking it up.


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## ehendrix23 (Jan 30, 2019)

Just wanted to give some info what I saw. 

Car was plugged in last night, charged and went to sleep from 9:17PM till 6:44AM. 
Then it was awake till 6:50 at which point I had a very short drive. 
Back home and idle from 6:59 till 7:13 and back to sleep. 
Then it slept till 4:05PM (almost 9 hours) at which point it woke up. 
Went back to sleep at 10:15PM. 

I have TeslaFi set to poll for 10 minutes and then trying to let the car go to sleep for 60 minutes. This whole time car is not plugged in but is on WiFi. 

Seems to confirm the idea of car waking up and staying awake for 6 hours. Probably also part depending on how long it has been awake before.


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

ehendrix23 said:


> Just wanted to give some info what I saw.
> 
> Car was plugged in last night, charged and went to sleep from 9:17PM till 6:44AM.
> Then it was awake till 6:50 at which point I had a very short drive.
> ...


Yesterday it was cold outside but I had precondition the cabin before I left for work and there was no snowflake on the battery icon. It took the car over 4 hrs to fall asleep. And took 2% of my battery.

If I try to explain this to the SC guys they don't get it. So extremely frustrating. I am going to send this feedback to tesla and escalate it for management review and also explain my experience at the SC


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

My car went to sleep last night at 11:15 after charging. It’s now 12 hours later and it’s still sleeping. I’m home today, so I haven’t disturbed the car, unplugged it, etc. it has not woken up once. 

It IS connected to WiFi. I use XFinity so I don’t have quite the granularity of data I’d like, at least not that I know how to access. It shows the car as currently disconnected, and it has been since it went to sleep. Last night when it got home, it shows a large burst of data. Then several smaller ones each hour until it went to sleep. Then nothing.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

Needsdecaf said:


> It IS connected to WiFi. I use XFinity so I don't have quite the granularity of data I'd like, at least not that I know how to access. It shows the car as currently disconnected, and it has been since it went to sleep. Last night when it got home, it shows a large burst of data. Then several smaller ones each hour until it went to sleep. Then nothing.


I see the same activity. Uploaded and downloaded data size is similar, with slight bias toward upload.

Question I've been meaning to ask: do all of us here have Data Sharing enabled in the car under the Privacy menu? If you toggle this off, does the car fall asleep faster when connected to WiFi?

Here's the experiment in running tonight... Treating my Model 3 like an easily-distracted teenager with a big school project due tomorrow.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

Still sleeping. Car has now been asleep over 17 hours. Shame I won’t be able to let it sleep until the morning.


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

Bigriver said:


> They make no promises about wake/sleep cycles. Actually, users manuals are silent on the existence of these cycles. But they do give guidance of losing only approximately 1% a day. So I did contact Tesla when the X went through a phase of losing more than 3% a day and it was in a relatively warm garage. 4 different people called me back within a few days on that, but always seeming to just be gathering a description of the problem from me. Then they went silent. And then the car got better - much closer to 1% loss and the awake period of 12 hours is an improvement from multiple days it was sometimes going, I've never known if they did something remotely or not. Some of it may be that we got a lot better at rarely inadvertently waking it up.


If my 3 is awake it loses about 1 mile per hour. Would not care if it was an hour here or there. But these long binges are pretty bad. If it stays asleep it will use 0-2 miles in 24 hours.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

Bokonon said:


> Here's the experiment in running tonight... Treating my Model 3 like an easily-distracted teenager with a big school project due tomorrow.


Hmmm seems like Family WiFi settings blocked the car from connecting to wifi altogether, rather than allowing the connection and blocking the internet. So, unsurprisingly, this happened:

6:17pm Parked
6:37pm TeslaFi stops polling
6:39pm Asleep

I'll try to find a way to allow the car to connect to WiFi but block the internet, but as this point, it feels like an academic exercise. Whether by design or not, the car wants to play with the mothership over WiFi when it gets home from a day of driving. It will stay awake if you allow it to do so, and will fall asleep if you don't. I'm inclined to believe that there's a reason for it wanting to do this, but either way, it's just the way it behaves under the current firmware.

I'll try disabling data sharing tomorrow to see whether it makes a difference.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

Bokonon said:


> Question I've been meaning to ask: do all of us here have Data Sharing enabled in the car under the Privacy menu? If you toggle this off, does the car fall asleep faster when connected to WiFi?


I do have data sharing enabled but have not played with the effect of disabling it. Interesting idea that it could be a reason for more data upload from the car and thus more awake time. But as my car always stays awake for 2 hours when first connected to WiFi, it hasn't seem that the connection is directly tied to a NEED (or wouldn't it disconnect and sleep as soon as done?) still will be interested if anyone else tests out this effect.


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

Bigriver said:


> I do have data sharing enabled but have not played with the effect of disabling it. Interesting idea that it could be a reason for more data upload from the car and thus more awake time. But as my car always stays awake for 2 hours when first connected to WiFi, it hasn't seem that the connection is directly tied to a NEED (or wouldn't it disconnect and sleep as soon as done?) still will be interested if anyone else tests out this effect.


I have not noticed my car staying awake on WiFi for 2 hrs but when it's on LTE it takes a long time. Tesla should upload whatever they do when the car is on WiFi and not otherwise


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

Bigriver said:


> But as my car always stays awake for 2 hours when first connected to WiFi, it hasn't seem that the connection is directly tied to a NEED (or wouldn't it disconnect and sleep as soon as done?)


Right?! That's the part I don't get either... If it's waiting for WiFi to dump a bunch of data, why not just do it and be done?

It's as though the car is staying awake waiting to receive a response back to whatever it uploaded, or perhaps additional instructions, and that either takes a long time to happen or it never happens, and the car keeps retrying and/or waiting until it eventually gives up and falls asleep.

It's also remotely possible (though I'm not sure how likely in this day and age) that Tesla uses parked cars connected to WiFi for some kind of distributed computing tasks for which the new MCU and/or Autopilot computers are well-suited. Why pay for more Amazon computes when you have a fleet of 100K+ HW 2.5 cars that you can borrow for 2 hours at a time? A bit far-fetched, maybe, but I can certainly imagine Elon musing about such a possibility.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

webdriverguy said:


> I have not noticed my car staying awake on WiFi for 2 hrs but when it's on LTE it takes a long time. Tesla should upload whatever they do when the car is on WiFi and not otherwise


I didn't notice the trend as so absolute until I loaded 2 months of Teslafi data into a spreadsheet. Every time my Model 3 comes home (and connects to WiFi) it is awake for 2 hours (sometimes 1 hr 59 min and sometimes 2 hrs 6 min.) and now I'm 4 days into my no WiFi experiment, and EVERY time it comes home, it is asleep in 11 minutes. It actually went 3 days with no wake period longer than 11 min. Then I did not use the car for a day, and it did the 5 hr 59 min awake cycle after 21 hours of sleep.

The title of this thread is "Car stays awake when connected to WiFi." I agree that is the basic topic here, concur that WiFi keeps it awake, although I contend that it is only a couple of hours. Are you saying that LTE is your problem? It can hit the 6 hour wake cycle independent of whether it's on WiFi or LTE, and I currently don't fully understand when that happens. Definitely happens if the car is not driven for between 21 to 30 hours. Don't know when else it happens.


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

Bigriver said:


> I didn't notice the trend as so absolute until I loaded 2 months of Teslafi data into a spreadsheet. Every time my Model 3 comes home (and connects to WiFi) it is awake for 2 hours (sometimes 1 hr 59 min and sometimes 2 hrs 6 min.) and now I'm 4 days into my no WiFi experiment, and EVERY time it comes home, it is asleep in 11 minutes. It actually went 3 days with no wake period longer than 11 min. Then I did not use the car for a day, and it did the 5 hr 59 min awake cycle after 21 hours of sleep.
> 
> The title of this thread is "Car stays awake when connected to WiFi." I agree that is the basic topic here, concur that WiFi keeps it awake, although I contend that it is only a couple of hours. Are you saying that LTE is your problem? It can hit the 6 hour wake cycle independent of whether it's on WiFi or LTE, and I currently don't fully understand when that happens. Definitely happens if the car is not driven for between 21 to 30 hours. Don't know when else it happens.


My issue happens when it's either very cold out below 40 degrees or when my car is parked outside the garage and the WiFi signal is not strong.

Every time it's cold out I have to manually turn WiFi off before I exit the car. Else the car won't sleep for more than 4 hrs. Else it sleeps in less than one hr.

If the WiFi signal is not strong and I am connected to WiFi even then the car will stay awake for over 2 hrs. The moment I block cars WiFi signal from my router app the car sleeps.

When I am parked inside the garage and connected to strong WiFi signal the car will sleep in less than 5 mins every time I check the app to wake it up. Else it does not take more than 20 - 30 to fall asleep.

I tried to explain this to the SC that there's a a bug in may be the poll cycle does not end when the WiFi is not strong and that's why it does not sleep. But in cold weather I don't get why it does not sleep. But if I manually turn WiFi off the car does sleep in less than 1 hrs or so. There is something wrong. SC does not believe me.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

mswlogo said:


> If my 3 is awake it loses about 1 mile per hour. Would not care if it was an hour here or there. But these long binges are pretty bad. If it stays asleep it will use 0-2 miles in 24 hours.


I agree with your rates of about 1 mph lost when awake and a wee fraction of that when asleep. But since they've told us to expect about 1% losses per day, 3-4 miles a day falls within that spec. Even when it does the 6 hour cycle, it loses about 4 miles and that cycle for me has usually happened after the car slept for 24 hours and had negligible losses from sleeping. So as 24 hrs + 6 hrs = 1.25 days, 5 miles lost falls within spec too.

I can find days that the loss is out of spec, like when it wasn't used for a day and starts a 6 hr awake cycle. I interrupt that and drive it to work. It continues and completes the wake cycle when I park at work. When I return home, it connects to WiFi and is awake for 2 hours. Then I go out that night, and when I return home, yet one more round of awake for 2 hours. This is a total of 10 hours awake and roughly 3% lost range. Plus there appear to be even more losses because of the snowflake. At times, I've been as upset as anyone on this forum about these losses. But the more I look at them, the more I understand them and see that not every day is ridiculously high. For me, it looks like it will generally stay in spec if I ignore snowflaked "losses" and don't let it connect to WiFi multiple times a day. I may even decide to restrict WiFi to a few times per week. I don't need a more robust musical experience and updated maps every day. (These are the things the car told me that I'm missing by not being connected to WiFi.)


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

When my car is awake, it's running the coolant pump. Subsequently it's losng approximately one *percent* per hour. That's a lot.


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

Needsdecaf said:


> When my car is awake, it's running the coolant pump. Subsequently it's losng approximately one *percent* per hour. That's a lot.


1% would be 3 miles an hour. 18 miles for that 6 hour wake thing. I've never seen it that bad. I hear the pump or what ever it is running too.

I had it lose 9-10 miles a day that includes a 6 hour wake thing, which is unacceptable. I don't think it's ever go longer than 6 hours or had a binge more than once in a day.

Where is that upload diagnostic data switch. I might try turn it off. I suspect if it asked me for permission, I said yes.


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

webdriverguy said:


> My issue happens when it's either very cold out below 40 degrees or when my car is parked outside the garage and the WiFi signal is not strong.
> 
> Every time it's cold out I have to manually turn WiFi off before I exit the car. Else the car won't sleep for more than 4 hrs. Else it sleeps in less than one hr.
> 
> ...


Maybe the charge port update they pushed might be casing the car to stay awake for a longer time in extremely cold temps


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

Another data point. 

I have “forgotten” my WiFi network in my car so that it wouldn’t connect. I didn’t drive the car much yesterday so it was only down to 72% battery. So I didn’t plug it in last night. Checked at lunchtime and it had been sleeping like a baby. I was out in the afternoon and heard that telltale whir / whine of the pump. Sure enough, the car had been awake for over two hours despite not having been touched. I opened the door to check, and found the pop up window asking me to connect the car to WiFi and showing all the WiFi connections. Arrrgh! The car is obsessed with WiFi!


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

Since updating to 2019.5.15 the car has not slept well at all. Often losing more than I drive some days. 

So I disabled WiFi again. It lost 4 miles from Sat Morning to Monday morning. Long run of low loss. Best run yet. 

I am testing now blocking the MAC address on the router so I can remotely get the car back on WiFi if needed.


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

Blocking the MAC was a bad idea with my router. It worked fine but removing that block was a nightmare. I had to restore a backup (lucky I had a backup). 

Anyways 2019.8.3 seems so much better. I went like 4 days with Normal loss with WIFI active. 

But ... I decided to park my car in a new place at work because the interior was getting to hot. When I moved it I was surprised to see it was on my work router. Which is very far away and lots of solid brick walls. It had one dot of strength. I worried it might strain to connect or stay connected and trigger battery drain. Well it did, first bad drain day in week and half. I did a “forget” on work WiFi for now. 

It was ok today parking in the same new spot. Probably gonna take another good week to know if it’s really better. 2019.5.15 really seemed bad though I could not get past one day without losing 10-12 miles. 

But the car is constantly throwing curves at you. You think something is fixed then you relize it’s not. 

This could be the first improvement I care about yet in 6 months.

How is your car sleeping these days? WIFI on or off.


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## HCD3 (Mar 3, 2019)

mswlogo said:


> Blocking the MAC was a bad idea with my router. It worked fine but removing that block was a nightmare. I had to restore a backup (lucky I had a backup).
> 
> Anyways 2019.8.3 seems so much better. I went like 4 days with Normal loss with WIFI active.
> 
> ...


I'm gonna check tonight MSW. I have Teslafi set to sleep, but I also had Tezlalab on my phone and I'm pretty sure its polling was
overriding Teslafi sleep. Maybe give my car some Ambien, but I'm afraid it will drive while asleep. Have a great day.


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## mswlogo (Oct 8, 2018)

yet another update.

I certainly have had better luck with WIFI Off than On but it’s not consistent.

After each update I give it another shot of leaving WIFI On. I received 2019.8.5. I’ve been recently charging once a week on weekends. And I try to catch the better solar day when I do. And it’s typically about a 150 mile charge. My charge Saturday around 6 pm.

Turns out I did use the car until Wednesday. It lost 50 freakin miles !!! Just awful. I was so disgusted I didn’t even care any more. That’s about how miles it should be down if I drove it every day !!

I was about to remove from WiFi and noticed the WIFI signal was weak (1 bar). It should not be weak. The router is mounted on the wall adjacent to the garage.

I set my router up with two SSIDs. One for 2.4ghz and one for 5.0ghz. It was on 2.4ghz. I use 2.4ghz if I want a strong signal and don’t care about bandwidth.

For grins I put it on 5.0ghz and it went from 1 bar to 4 bars. Same deal this week. Charge finished around 5 pm Sunday. I was out with the flu this week and the car has sat all week.

It dropped 4 miles in 4 days.

Was it the change I made on WIFI, who the F knows. I also don’t know what it will do when it gets to work with no WiFi again.

But I did learn is it can behave while on WIFI.


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

I'm now starting to troubleshoot issues with this as well.
My car has certainly had some sleep apnea while parked in recent firmware, but yesterday I noticed TesalFi missing entire drives.
Then my Tesla app could not connect for hours....to the Tesla server.
I finally went outside and did a hard reboot, and afterwards turned off wifi. That seems to get things back to normal, and TeslaFI and the Tesla app were communicating again.
But TeslaFi again missed a drive a few hours ago.
I really hope we get an update from this buggy firmware soon.


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