# Model 3 on a dyno: 393,6 HP ;)



## Mike (Apr 4, 2016)

Model 3: 393 hp on the dyno......:


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

Once again, Tesla sandbags this car (just like how they downrated the range). Their claimed HP is top speed HP, not peak HP.


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

KarenRei said:


> Once again, Tesla sandbags this car (just like how they downrated the range). Their claimed HP is top speed HP, not peak HP.


This was probably done as part of the 'anti-selling' effort to protect Model S... Now the truth comes out...


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

Michael Russo said:


> This was probably done as part of the 'anti-selling' effort to protect Model S... Now the truth comes out...


It explains Motor Trend's 4,8s 0-60


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

KarenRei said:


> It explains Motor Trend's 4,8s 0-60


Sure does! Great edit on #2!!


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

Now picture what it'll be like when they come out with the performance package  Man, has Tesla ever knocked it out of the park with this one.... 

This is going to be so hilarious for me when I get mine, as I'm currently driving a car that had 67 hp when *new*, and now has about 200k km on the current engine / 750k km on the car as a whole


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## RSavage (Aug 31, 2017)

As if I wasn't already giddy enough.....


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## Matthias Fritz (Aug 20, 2017)

absolutely achievable. tried one 0-60 calculator. this came out. manual is actually faster than automatic transmission.
note; cannot promise the 100% validity of this theory example


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## Jayc (May 19, 2016)

I predict Model 3 will not initially get a performance variant. AWD LR will probably be as quick as it gets but it will beat best of current ICE.

When the Tesla machine starts churning out cars with a healthy profit on each, things might change. Just my opinion of course.


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

3814 lbs, not 3700.  Also. the shape of the power curve matters. You can see on the quarter mile plot that it comes in right around 5 seconds.

Ed: something just occurred to me: I'll almost never get to feel the top of that power curve. That's 12mph over our speed limit!


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Jayc said:


> I predict Model 3 will not initially get a performance variant. AWD LR will probably be as quick as it gets...


Yeah, I'm thinking that too now. 600hp (if the front motor is half-size) or 800hp (if front motor is same size) seems like plenty to trounce all other cars in its class.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

garsh said:


> Yeah, I'm thinking that too now. 600hp (if the front motor is half-size) or 800hp (if front motor is same size) seems like plenty to trounce all other cars in its class.


...assuming the inverter and battery aren't like:












Which makes me wonder, do we know the actual rating on the production Model 3's inverter? The last number I saw (back in June 2016 = ancient history) was "300+ kw". 300 kw = 402 HP, 399 kw ~= 535 HP. Zero complaints about anything in that zone, of course.


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## DNR (Feb 10, 2018)

The Model 3 does not put 396 hp to the wheels. The Model S P85 puts down less than that, weighs 1000 pounds more and is much faster! Don't believe everything that you read. haha
Look at that acceleration plot from DragTimes. It doesn't line up with the dyno plot at all.


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## ng0 (Apr 11, 2017)

This is pretty awesome if true!

On an unrelated note, I'm not sure about the rest of you, but I was cringing when that guy was smoking right next to the car! Then when he sat in it after, I was like... awww hell no, don't smell up that beautiful new car!


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

DNR said:


> The Model 3 does not put 396 hp to the wheels.


It would be nice to see somebody else repeat the dyno test. Here are some RWD Model S dyno videos I found.

60 videos: 255hp & 263hp









P85 videos: 369hp & 436hp


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Brooks put the RWD 3 on the dyno now too.
2nd try after disconnecting front ABS: 281hp dyno (car thinks 336hp?).
551 ft-lb torque


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

Is it just me, or is the car skidding on the dyno at 6:50? You even see the rear end jerk to the left.

More weirdness: By stepping through frames I can see the mph labels on the dyno graph; it shows peak HP at around 55mph, followed by a gradual taper (an almost constant HP plateau). Way lower speed for peak HP than the other dyno. The other dyno shows that sort of horsepower at around the same speed, but the power keeps climbing up to 68 mph rather than "giving up" like the one in this vid.

Any people with more dyno experience care to offer some theories into what's going on here?


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

Definitely needs dyno experts. I’m lost. 
Certainly the second try on the second (Brooks) vid ‘feels’ more comparable with the conditions of the first vid (front wheels not turning).

Yet that’s a big difference in HP... though 300+ seems plenty good enough for me...


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

KarenRei said:


> Way lower speed for peak HP than the other dyno. The other dyno shows that sort of horsepower at around the same speed, but the power keeps climbing up to 68 mph rather than "giving up" like the one in this vid.


State of charge and temperature of the battery can make a big difference too. I watched those videos quickly while doing other things, but I don't remember anything being stated about the battery state before testing.

I forget which video it was, but somebody was performing 0-60mph tests with the Model 3 using a VBOX, and it kept getting a little faster with each attempt as the battery warmed up.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Mike said:


> Model 3: 393 hp on the dyno......:


They first performed a run starting at 30mph. It sounded like Eric was trying to confirm the machine settings. He says something like "because when I look at the graph, I'll know I hit 3400 rpm". That first run appears to show a 247hp peak on the wall monitor. That's close to the 281hp that Brooks got with his last dyno run.

Then they performed a second run, but didn't really say anything about it. The monitor was switched to displaying the hp vs speed graph, which isn't really visible on the video.

Then for the third run, it sounds like they started at 10mph. Afterwards, Eric says "I know how Tesla thinks. You guys are smart! You tried to trick me. They try to power-manage the car...". It's not clear to me what he means, but it sounds like he figured out how to work around a limitation of some sort. I wish we had some more details about this dyno run. Somebody needs to interview Eric and find out what he did, and if it's repeatable.


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

garsh said:


> They first performed a run starting at 30mph. It sounded like Eric was trying to confirm the machine settings. He says something like "because when I look at the graph, I'll know I hit 3400 rpm". That first run appears to show a 247hp peak on the wall monitor. That's close to the 281hp that Brooks got with his last dyno run.
> 
> Then they performed a second run, but didn't really say anything about it. The monitor was switched to displaying the hp vs speed graph, which isn't really visible on the video.
> 
> Then for the third run, it sounds like they started at 10mph. Afterwards, Eric says "I know how Tesla thinks. You guys are smart! You tried to trick me. They try to power-manage the car...". It's not clear to me what he means, but it sounds like he figured out how to work around a limitation of some sort. I wish we had some more details about this dyno run. Somebody needs to interview Eric and find out what he did, and if it's repeatable.


From Mysterylectric: _"__Heres our calibration run max power. This held consistent on all 30mph runs, but the 10mph runs showed 390hp. I'm wondering if the car has a secret built in. With manual calculations, I am getting 545ft/lbs to the rear wheels, which is in line with the dragtimes video. We are going to be setting up another test, but on the street this time. If we can duplicate this on the street, it'll be definitive (ABS disconnected, and a few "warm up pulls")."_

I see several possibilities

* Defective dyno
* Improper dyno configuration
* Differences between vehicles
* Differences in pack temperatures
* Differences in pack state of charge
* Differences in motor temperature
* Differences in coolant temperature
* Differences in pattern of throttle application
* Tesla control software limiting max HP relative to starting speed.
* Other


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

@KarenRei , what's the source for that quote?

NM, found it:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/exclusive-first-model-3-dyno.109222/page-4#post-2582029


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

@KarenRei , @garsh , you guys are Dyno-mite!!!


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Some more quotes from [email protected]:


> Tesla is absolutely sand bagging this car. From 30mph rolls, we were getting consistent 250hp range pulls (you can see it in the TV during the calibration run). Once we dropped the speed down below 15mph, the horsepower jumped considerably.





> *when we did the test from 30mph, it showed about 250hp across 4 runs (248-255hp)*. If you watch the calibration run, you can see the screen shows a max of 248hp. When we decided to measure *from 10mph, the power jumped to 393. The next 2 runs were 388 and 386 respectively.*


Concerning ABS/traction control:


> We fully defeated it  I wouldn't recommend doing it our way, but it can be done with a little.....persuasion.





> I have had my P85 on this very dyno, using the same method to calibrate (gear ratio, tire size, set it to 118rpm per mph) and it put down 441hp on 92% charge. We haven't done a heads up acceleration comparison between the P85 and Model 3 just yet, but the Model 3 doesn't feel all that much slower.
> 
> As for this car, I disconnected the right front ABS sensor to kill all traction systems in the car.





> Yes. It disabled traction, stability, ABS, autopilot, and threw a warning for TPMS.


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## viperd (Feb 17, 2017)

Jayc said:


> I predict Model 3 will not initially get a performance variant. AWD LR will probably be as quick as it gets but it will beat best of current ICE.


I'm hoping for AWD with faster performance than the RWD, but as I recall, when the RWD X was discontinued the difference between RWD & AWD was 1/10th or so a second. I don't recall the difference on the S.


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## RSavage (Aug 31, 2017)

KarenRei said:


> Is it just me, or is the car skidding on the dyno


Interesting you mention that. The horrible wheelspin was the first thing I noticed. I've run or owned multiple dynos (chassis and engine)....from Allen and Clayton to SuperFlow. If the power source (tires in this case) isn't in absolute contact with the load (rollers on the dyno here), then the test is bogus. Additionally,, I'm old and want to see readings taken steady state at various speeds...in other words, not a sweep. Nobody does it that way anymore but, to my mind, if the machine is unloaded enough to allow acceleration during the run, then any numbers you record are the result of *some* interpolation rather than steady state, full load, measurement. The other thing to remember is that no two dynos are the same....at least not at the neighborhood shop level...and the operator/test protocol can have a HUGE effect on the results.


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## Matthias Fritz (Aug 20, 2017)

Model 3 showing up on a "street-race"


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## Tesla Ninja (Sep 8, 2017)

552 foot-pounds of Torque at the wheels...unbelievable!
If you add a conservative 15% drive train loss of a RWD ICE car, you are looking at 650 ft-lbs at the crank! That's Corvette ZR1 territory.

ok so some quick math.

HP = TQ x RPM / 5252 (Equation 1)

So where the TQ and HP lines cross should occur at 5252 RPM.

Which looks like at around 70 MPH (DragTimes dyno sheet)

70 MPH, with a wheel diameter of 26.3" = 895 RPM

So it looks like the model 3 gear ratio is around 5.87 (5252 RPM/895 RPM).

From DragTimes dyno sheet:

If we look at when Max torque occurs:

25 MPH = 1175 RPM
205 HP
552 TQ

Calculated HP = 197 HP (HP numbers match the dyno based on Equation 1)

Let's do the same at Max HP which occurs:

48 MPH = 3600 RPM
330 HP
485 TQ

Calculated HP = 332 HP (HP numbers match the dyno based on Equation 1)

So I would say DragTimes Max 330HP and 552 TQ is correct.

If we look at the dyno sheet from the original post:

The Max HP which occurs:

68 MPH = 5100 RPM
394 HP
? TQ

Using the same math as before, the torque would have had to been around 405ft-lbs at 68 MPH. This may be stretching the torque power band too much so this dyno may be somewhat incorrect.

But regardless, these numbers are amazing. Tesla should just advertise Model 3 TQ = ZR1 TQ


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## Misanthropic Mike (May 17, 2019)

The electric motors in our cars develop their peak power at greater speeds than a typical ICE which develops peak power around 5000-6000 RPM and thus must have lower torque (at the shaft) than equivalent ICE vehicles. They feel peppy because they don't require a heavy flywheel like an ICE does. According to the teslamotorsclub thread, the model 3 has 9:1 gearing in the rear. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thr...ual-motor-vs-performance-dyno-results.141137/


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