# Smart Summon! V10 Video



## Zek (Oct 28, 2018)

Hello Folks, I would like to start a conversation about Smart Summon!
Do we feel that it's here? Like next week? 
When will people like myself who payed for FSD long ago get it? It feels like it's imminent but how does the community feel about it?

2019.32.2.12 looks like beta of v10 with smart summon.






Any opinions here are just that, opinions and a healthy conversation.


----------



## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

I wouldn't count on it even in the first iteration or two of v10.


----------



## SalisburySam (Jun 6, 2018)

It’ll come when it comes. My timeline: 
Next week? Hardly. 
End of year? Likely not. 
V11? Maybe. 
V12? Likely. 
V13? Probably. 
V14? Fer shur. 

I want to be wrong.


----------



## Jay79 (Aug 18, 2018)

I think after a few weeks if the beta testing goes well we will see V10


----------



## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

Zak said:


> Hello Folks, I would like to start a conversation about Smart Summon!
> Do we feel that it's here? Like next week?
> When will people like myself who payed for FSD long ago get it? It feels like it's imminent but how does the community feel about it?
> 
> ...


Where are those charts coming from? Whats the data source? Teslafi still doesn't have .12 on its radar.


----------



## Zek (Oct 28, 2018)

airj1012 said:


> Where are those charts coming from? Whats the data source? Teslafi still doesn't have .12 on its radar.


From me! I see it in the stats app as of this am


----------



## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

Smart Summon is already a part of V10 and early access has it. Maybe not next week but we will all have it with V10, pretty soon I think. As far as Full Self Driving, well that's anybody's guess. I'd love to see it but I think it will come slowly. First step will be the car seeing and reacting to stop lights and stop signs, then maybe it will go around a turn at an intersection. Things will get better but in small steps. That's the way I see it.


----------



## Zek (Oct 28, 2018)

I personally think we will see it next week per Elon’s tweets. And it will likely be 80% working just like the first version of Navigate on auto pilot. 
The inability of the car to see right in front of the bumper and under the front mirrors/doors may pose an unneeded software challenge.


----------



## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

airj1012 said:


> Where are those charts coming from? Whats the data source? Teslafi still doesn't have .12 on its radar.


It will very shortly. Give it an hour or two.


----------



## Jason F (Jul 6, 2018)

It's still called Enhanced Summon and has never changed its name, despite tweets to the contrary.


----------



## hdgmedic (Jun 8, 2017)

Jason F said:


> It's still called Enhanced Summon and has never changed its name, despite tweets to the contrary.


It's not called Enhanced Summons?!??!?


----------



## ibgeek (Aug 26, 2019)

airj1012 said:


> Where are those charts coming from? Whats the data source? Teslafi still doesn't have .12 on its radar.


With most testing, Tesla makes you cancel your Teslafi account if you have one. There are some exceptions, but this build is not one of them it would appear. The build does exist though. Very limited release at the moment.

EDIT: While they do ask, it turns out that this is not enforced.


----------



## ibgeek (Aug 26, 2019)

Jason F said:


> It's still called Enhanced Summon and has never changed its name, despite tweets to the contrary.


The name change will be after the app update is released. And on the car side, naming will be in the final release. These are all pre-release builds. Release will be 2019.36 or higher from what I've been told.


----------



## Jason F (Jul 6, 2018)

hdgmedic said:


> It's not called Enhanced Summons?!??!?


Ha, definitely not, nor Smart Summon, Advanced Summon, ...


----------



## Zek (Oct 28, 2018)

ibgeek said:


> The name change will be after the app update is released. And on the car side, naming will be in the final release. These are all pre-release builds. Release will be 2019.36 or higher from what I've been told.


Thoughts on timing? Do we trust Elon's tweet? Should I get excited for next week?


----------



## Zek (Oct 28, 2018)

More Info From a Friend “Just got another update last night. 32.12 with Early Access. Smart summon is smoother with less tire wiggle.”


----------



## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

3V Pilot said:


> Smart Summon is already a part of V10 and early access has it. Maybe not next week but we will all have it with V10, pretty soon I think. As far as Full Self Driving, well that's anybody's guess. I'd love to see it but I think it will come slowly. First step will be the car seeing and reacting to stop lights and stop signs, then maybe it will go around a turn at an intersection. Things will get better but in small steps. That's the way I see it.


I agree that's likely to be the sequence, but I really wish it wasn't. Tesla's plan seems to be to gradually add autonomous features at a level that needs monitoring. That means they'll be stuck at L2 for a long time--basically until they're ready to make the jump to L5.

I'd prefer if the focus was to perfect autonomy in limited circumstances (L3); say, on limited-access highways or in traffic jams. That would mean we could, for example, answer email or watch a video from onramp to offramp on an interstate. Then extend L3 to more and more circumstances, eventually leading to L4 and then L5.


----------



## Zek (Oct 28, 2018)

DocScott said:


> I agree that's likely to be the sequence, but I really wish it wasn't. Tesla's plan seems to be to gradually add autonomous features at a level that needs monitoring. That means they'll be stuck at L2 for a long time--basically until they're ready to make the jump to L5.
> 
> I'd prefer if the focus was to perfect autonomy in limited circumstances (L3); say, on limited-access highways or in traffic jams. That would mean we could, for example, answer email or watch a video from onramp to offramp on an interstate. Then extend L3 to more and more circumstances, eventually leading to L4 and then L5.


Leap from L2 to L3 is huge its even bigger from L3 to L4 and very possible that it will take 5-10 year to fully reach L5 - the problem set at level 5 is very large. I would use space flight as an example L1 is sending a ballon to the edge of space. L2 is low earth orbit rocket. L3 is going to the moon and back. L4 is Mars and back safely and repeatably. Full L5 is closer to going to another star.


----------



## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

Zak said:


> Leap from L2 to L3 is huge its even bigger from L3 to L4 and very possible that it will take 5-10 year to fully reach L5 - the problem set at level 5 is very large. I would use space flight as an example L1 is sending a ballon to the edge of space. L2 is low earth orbit rocket. L3 is going to the moon and back. L4 is Mars and back safely and repeatably. Full L5 is closer to going to another star.


I disagree.

L3 is achievable now. Audi already has it with its Traffic Jam Pilot feature, although for regulatory reasons it's not available in the US.

L3, by definition, is used in limited circumstances. Developers can pick whatever circumstances are easiest (low speeds, low traffic density, good weather/lighting, limited-access roads, etc.) and focus on those. That makes it an easier problem than extending L2 to all circumstances.


----------



## Zek (Oct 28, 2018)

DocScott said:


> I disagree.
> 
> L3 is achievable now. Audi already has it with its Traffic Jam Pilot feature, although for regulatory reasons it's not available in the US.
> 
> L3, by definition, is used in limited circumstances. Developers can pick whatever circumstances are easiest (low speeds, low traffic density, good weather/lighting, limited-access roads, etc.) and focus on those. That makes it an easier problem than extending L2 to all circumstances.


I agree with you! We can goto the moon and back we did it in 1969! I just simply think L2 is easy L3 is harder L4 is very hard, and L5 is super very hard

Smart Summon is L2.5!!!


----------



## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

ibgeek said:


> With most testing, Tesla makes you cancel your Teslafi account if you have one. There are some exceptions, but this build is not one of them it would appear. The build does exist though. Very limited release at the moment.


Well that's not true at all. They ask you not to use 3rd party services/apps but do not enforce that in any way. They also ask you not to discuss or share any content with details, yet many folks produce videos of the betas and Elon himself promotes them. Tesla rides the grey territory on the good side, if they really didn't want something public it would not be released to regular Joes.
Teslafi has an option in settings to remove yourself from the firmware reporting data, and I turn that on when I know I am getting beta software, which I think is a fair compromise. Many do not.


----------



## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

Zak said:


> I agree with you! We can goto the moon and back we did it in 1969! I just simply think L2 is easy L3 is harder L4 is very hard, and L5 is super very hard
> 
> Smart Summon is L2.5!!!


Yes--Smart Summon is L2.5. I agree with that.

But I do think _useful_ L3 is way easier than _universal_ L1.

L1 means driver assist. _Universal_ L1 means driver assist in all circumstances.

L1 has to assist the driver with one part of driving; usually, it's speed. So imagine a system that can adjust the speed in all normal driving circumstances. Because it's L1 and not L3, the driver will sometimes have to override on a moment's notice--that's OK. L1 does not have to be able to react to a cat dashing across the roadway, for example.

But universal L1 would need to understand stop signs and traffic lights. It should understand merging, including yield signs. It should understand 4-way stops, and unprotected left turns. It should know not to block the box, or get stuck behind someone on a railroad crossing.

Some of those problems are not so hard, but some are very, very hard--particularly the ones that involve implicit negotiation between drivers. I think we're a long way from anything like universal L1.

L3 means that in some circumstances, the driver can take their eyes off the road for extended periods. They still need to be able to take control within a reasonably short period of time (say, 30 seconds) if the autonomous system decides it needs help. The easiest L3 circumstances are pretty easy, in contrast to the hardest L1 circumstances. For example, a traffic jam on a limited-access highway with no merge lanes. That's pretty darn easy--just follow the car in front at an appropriate distance, and have some algorithm for what happens if someone tries to change in to the car's lane in front of it. If anything more complicated starts to happen (e.g. the car detects a merge ahead or the traffic jam starts to pick up) it can hand control back to the driver.

Tesla seems determined to try to achieve _universal_ L2 (monitored speed and steering) as quickly as possible. That's what I think is the mistake. L3 in some circumstances is much easier than L2 in all circumstances, and, in my opinion, more useful to most drivers.


----------



## Zek (Oct 28, 2018)

DocScott said:


> Yes--Smart Summon is L2.5. I agree with that.
> 
> But I do think _useful_ L3 is way easier than _universal_ L1.
> 
> ...


Good write up! 
The only deviation I would make is that we already have universal L1 thats better then most people.

We have a good version of L2 thats 90%. And maybe L3 is at 50%.


----------



## ibgeek (Aug 26, 2019)

Zak said:


> Thoughts on timing? Do we trust Elon's tweet? Should I get excited for next week?


I'd say a more realistic goal right now would be between 2 weeks and a month. Elon's internal clock runs a but fast.


----------



## ibgeek (Aug 26, 2019)

JWardell said:


> Well that's not true at all. They ask you not to use 3rd party services/apps but do not enforce that in any way. They also ask you not to discuss or share any content with details, yet many folks produce videos of the betas and Elon himself promotes them. Tesla rides the grey territory on the good side, if they really didn't want something public it would not be released to regular Joes.
> Teslafi has an option in settings to remove yourself from the firmware reporting data, and I turn that on when I know I am getting beta software, which I think is a fair compromise. Many do not.


Sorry, I thought that I saw a letter that was sent out. Wasn't aware they would allow connections if they saw the API in use. Thanks for the correction.


----------



## Zek (Oct 28, 2018)

Looks Ready!


----------



## raptor (May 6, 2018)

Now they just need to increase the range by 50' or so.


----------



## ibgeek (Aug 26, 2019)

raptor said:


> Now they just need to increase the range by 50' or so.


Not sure what the exact max distance is, but looking at the phone screen shots I've seen online it looks like it's easily the size of an average grocery store parking lot. And I expect the the geofencing to be further relaxed fairly quickly as more confidence is gained.


----------



## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

I think the distance is just fine. You really don't want to put full trust in this just yet, and you want to be sure to keep an eye on the car at all times in case you need to stop it for all sorts of unpredicable things. Plus, I guarantee it will stop in some embarrassing position and you will want to be able to run to it as fast as possible to jump in and drive away 

As with all new Tesla software features, remember this is just the beginning. It's the worst it will ever be. It will keep getting better from here.


----------

