# Software Build v10.0 2019.32.12.2 58f3b76 (10/10/2019)



## Bokonon

Detected on a Model 3 in Alberta with "Autopilot 9 hardware." according to TeslaFi


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## oshw

Got it this morning, smart summon available in Canada now. Not sure what else has changed other than minor fixes.


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## SkaarV

I believe the vent option is available now too. I don't recall seeing it in the update notes prior to this update (in Canada).


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## oshw

I believe I saw that in 32.12.1


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## autoX

oshw said:


> Got it this morning, smart summon available in Canada now. Not sure what else has changed other than minor fixes.


smart summon yes


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## JDM3

Just installed this morning. Going to do some parking lot tricks later today.


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## JWardell

We need to add a poll


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## iChris93

JWardell said:


> We need to add a poll


Thanks, added!


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## Sumiguchi

i just got notice this update is ready to install - can anyone confirm that caraoke still works while driving??

We are going on a road trip tomorrow and this is what my family is looking forward to most! 😂


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## GDN

Bokonon said:


> Detected on a Model 3 in Alberta with "Autopilot 9 hardware." according to TeslaFi


Tesla has removed or is messing with the code that identifies AP HW. Per Teslafi they can no longer identify and had a new feature up a couple of days ago asking users to self identify which HW their car has.


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## airj1012

See some detections in France and Netherlands on TeslaFi. Looks like Smart Summon its going to Europe right now. Hope there are some big fixes for it in this release.


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## Simon_rb

No chance Smart Summon in Europe. We still need Bluetooth connection to our phone just for Summon. Hope I’m wrong though


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## ibgeek

God I hope they fix what ever is going on with my NOA. Since version 10 it's been almost unusable. Done all the reboots and such as well. 

32.12.1 today did the following. Now mind you I drive this same route nearly every day and since 2019.28.x NOA had been flawless. 

Hopped on the freeway and turned on NOA. I was in the lane I needed to be in as I change freeways within 2 miles. Car decides it wants to move over to the left but keeps the blinker on for 20 seconds (no traffic in the way) moves over a foot or two a couple times and then dumps out of AP. Turned it back on. Got to my exit and instead of exiting right, it acted like it was a left exit, had to abort to not swing across the highway. Later in the trip, (last try) it took a right hand bend in the freeway and nearly sideswiped a K Rail. There's a lot of meandering around the lane as well. Lanes are very well marked on this drive. 

On version 32.11.1 I noticed that all the work they had done to make merging work was no longer working. Didn't bother testing that today.

This will be my 4th update in 3 days. So they are clearly chasing something. 

Fingers crossed that 32.12.2 is where we get back to good.


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## LonnyB

Installed 12.1 this morning and 12.2 this evening in my Model 3 in The Netherlands. Still no Smart Summon. 

Btw, already had ”vent” before installing 12.2.

Also worth mentioning: 12.2 update appeared, then disappeared for a few minutes after connecting to wifi and appeared again.

Both updates costed me less than 1 GB (around 800 MB at most?) of data using my phone as hotspot.


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## Michel Contant

Hi! Does anyone have the COME TO ME button in Canada? I can do Smart summon but I don't have to come to me button on my home screen.


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## iChris93

Michel Contant said:


> Hi! Does anyone have the COME TO ME button in Canada? I can do Smart summon but I don't have to come to me button on my home screen.


Turning on summon standby may make it appear.


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## Michel Contant

Nope I f I go in summon, let it connect then back to home screen, still no "Come to me"


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## iChris93

Michel Contant said:


> Nope I f I go in summon, let it connect then back to home screen, still no "Come to me"


Yeah, that doesn't work for me either. But I've heard turning summon standby on does. In the settings in the car.


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## SR22pilot

shmackers said:


> Me, too. 25 min ago notified available. Then disappeared. Now just came back and installing. On wifi the whole time.


Add me to the list. I had a download available when I got in the car but 30 minutes later when I got home it was gone.

EDIT: Just after I initially posted this, the update showed up again. Weid. Updating now. I hope it fixes Slacker locking up in the middle of a song.


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## Hugh_Jassol

ibgeek said:


> God I hope they fix what ever is going on with my NOA. Since version 10 it's been almost unusable. Done all the reboots and such as well.
> 
> 32.12.1 today did the following. Now mind you I drive this same route nearly every day and since 2019.28.x NOA had been flawless.
> 
> Hopped on the freeway and turned on NOA. I was in the lane I needed to be in as I change freeways within 2 miles. Car decides it wants to move over to the left but keeps the blinker on for 20 seconds (no traffic in the way) moves over a foot or two a couple times and then dumps out of AP. Turned it back on. Got to my exit and instead of exiting right, it acted like it was a left exit, had to abort to not swing across the highway. Later in the trip, (last try) it took a right hand bend in the freeway and nearly sideswiped a K Rail. There's a lot of meandering around the lane as well. Lanes are very well marked on this drive.
> 
> On version 32.11.1 I noticed that all the work they had done to make merging work was no longer working. Didn't bother testing that today.
> 
> This will be my 4th update in 3 days. So they are clearly chasing something.
> 
> Fingers crossed that 32.12.2 is where we get back to good.


Funny. 32.12.1 was working ok for me - however, I only had it for one day before getting 32.12.2 this morning... but holy crap, I am seeing the exact same thing you are with NoA. It's _unusable_ in 32.12.2 for me. And this comes from someone who uses NoA every day, both ways, on my daily commute. Today after getting 32.12.2, it couldn't change lanes. Same as you - completely empty lane beside me, and it would move over, bail, move over, bail, rinse repeat. I tried it like 3 times today and same thing each time. Finally gave up.


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## Long Ranger

Michel Contant said:


> Nope I f I go in summon, let it connect then back to home screen, still no "Come to me"


How close are you to the vehicle? It doesn't appear if you are outside the Summon radius. You can verify on the Smart Summon map in the app whether it thinks your phone is inside the radius.


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## Michel Contant

Yep it did. What kind of battery drain should I expect with summon standby?


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## ibgeek

Hugh_Jassol said:


> Funny. 32.12.1 was working ok for me - however, I only had it for one day before getting 32.12.2 this morning... but holy crap, I am seeing the exact same thing you are with NoA. It's _unusable_ in 32.12.2 for me. And this comes from someone who uses NoA every day, both ways, on my daily commute. Today after getting 32.12.2, it couldn't change lanes. Same as you - completely empty lane beside me, and it would move over, bail, move over, bail, rinse repeat. I tried it like 3 times today and same thing each time. Finally gave up.


Well that's not encouraging. If it doesn't improve in the next day or so I'm going to contact service. Maybe they can force AP to re-calibrate or something. I've got several hundred miles to do next week.


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## Long Ranger

Michel Contant said:


> Yep it did. What kind of battery drain should I expect with summon standby?


I haven't measured it, but I think it's roughly the same as Sentry mode, about 1 mile per hour. You can have it set to exclude home and work. I do, and I still get Come to Me at work. Plus, that means it's only on Standby whenever I'm already using Sentry mode, so I haven't noticed any extra drain on top of the Sentry drain.

Note that Smart Summon still has a lot of issues and inconsistencies. I've seen recommendations here to set a target instead of using Come to Me for better predictability, and I agree with that.


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## Long Ranger

ibgeek said:


> Well that's not encouraging. If it doesn't improve in the next day or so I'm going to contact service. Maybe they can force AP to re-calibrate or something. I've got several hundred miles to do next week.


Just one data point, but I just wanted to say that I had a good experience on NOA tonight with 12.2. Well executed lane changes and overall about as smooth as it's ever been for me. Note that I initiate lane changes myself with the turn signal, as I've never thought much of the NOA lane decisions.


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## MelindaV

Hugh_Jassol said:


> Funny. 32.12.1 was working ok for me - however, I only had it for one day before getting 32.12.2 this morning... but holy crap, I am seeing the exact same thing you are with NoA. It's _unusable_ in 32.12.2 for me. And this comes from someone who uses NoA every day, both ways, on my daily commute. Today after getting 32.12.2, it couldn't change lanes. Same as you - completely empty lane beside me, and it would move over, bail, move over, bail, rinse repeat. I tried it like 3 times today and same thing each time. Finally gave up.


I was getting this all day today on 32.12.1 (6 hrs of driving) on EAP (w/o using NoA), but not yesterday (9 hrs of driving) on 32.11.x
wheni saw the update this afternoon, I assumed it was to fix the lane changes. Will see how it does tomorrow.


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## ibgeek

Long Ranger said:


> Just one data point, but I just wanted to say that I had a good experience on NOA tonight with 12.2. Well executed lane changes and overall about as smooth as it's ever been for me. Note that I initiate lane changes myself with the turn signal, as I've never thought much of the NOA lane decisions.


I was very cautious about lane changes, but prior to V10 things got so good that I was completely comfortable having the car do lane changes on it's own. (not in mad max though just because I'm not in that much of a hurry) 
Now I'm completely spoiled and I want it back. We'll get there, just need to be patient.


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## Kizzy

Hugh_Jassol said:


> Funny. 32.12.1 was working ok for me - however, I only had it for one day before getting 32.12.2 this morning... but holy crap, I am seeing the exact same thing you are with NoA. It's _unusable_ in 32.12.2 for me. And this comes from someone who uses NoA every day, both ways, on my daily commute. Today after getting 32.12.2, it couldn't change lanes. Same as you - completely empty lane beside me, and it would move over, bail, move over, bail, rinse repeat. I tried it like 3 times today and same thing each time. Finally gave up.


Last night I was on 32.11.1 and had a lot of lane change aborts. 32.12.2 just finished downloading for me and now I'm afraid it'll be worse with this version.


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## dburkland

LonnyB said:


> Installed 12.1 this morning and 12.2 this evening in my Model 3 in The Netherlands. Still no Smart Summon.
> 
> Btw, already had "vent" before installing 12.2.
> 
> Also worth mentioning: 12.2 update appeared, then disappeared for a few minutes after connecting to wifi and appeared again.
> 
> Both updates costed me less than 1 GB (around 800 MB at most?) of data using my phone as hotspot.


same thing happened to me, thought they pulled the update for a second.


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## tivoboy

I really hate these .x.1 updates. It makes me think that hey, really should install this especially on the heels or a x.-1 release since I think they wouldn’t rush out a x.1 release so fast unless there was something pretty compelling to push out. But then, I get used to what works and doesn’t work in a regular release, and then boom some update makes things worse. I don’ t really think Agile releases are good in a product such as this.


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## Rich M

dburkland said:


> same thing happened to me, thought they pulled the update for a second.


They might have? I just 4 hours ago got 12.1 as a fresh download.


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## slotti

No issue on NOA. BUT, my average consumption rate went from 245Wh/mile to 290Wh/mile! I'll have to monitor this a but further if it is some kind of fluke, but that would be a crazy degrading. Also, tested full charge (kind of do it every 3 month), and I only got up to 306 miles range. I have the LR RWD so technically it should be 325, which I never got, but I did get around 315 just 4 months ago.


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## LeeCephas

tivoboy said:


> I really hate these .x.1 updates. It makes me think that hey, really should install this especially on the heels or a x.-1 release since I think they wouldn't rush out a x.1 release so fast unless there was something pretty compelling to push out. But then, I get used to what works and doesn't work in a regular release, and then boom some update makes things worse. I don' t really think Agile releases are good in a product such as this.


Just curious. Did you select 'advanced' as your software preference?


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## Daryl

I noticed that even as 32.12.2 is rolling out fast, 32.12.1 continues to go out in high volume.

I suspect that Tesla deliberately put minor differences in the two releases and wants to run them "side-by-side" in the field to see which modifications work best.


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## srjinatl

tivoboy said:


> I really hate these .x.1 updates. It makes me think that hey, really should install this especially on the heels or a x.-1 release since I think they wouldn't rush out a x.1 release so fast unless there was something pretty compelling to push out. But then, I get used to what works and doesn't work in a regular release, and then boom some update makes things worse. I don' t really think Agile releases are good in a product such as this.


Then why not just skip them - certainly a choice you have. Might make sense to wait until you hear feedback from others on this forum on possible issues. I have done that from time to time to avoid trading known problems for new problems, especially on some of these minor updates.


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## motocoder

tivoboy said:


> I really hate these .x.1 updates. It makes me think that hey, really should install this especially on the heels or a x.-1 release since I think they wouldn't rush out a x.1 release so fast unless there was something pretty compelling to push out. But then, I get used to what works and doesn't work in a regular release, and then boom some update makes things worse. I don' t really think Agile releases are good in a product such as this.


There's nothing wrong with Agile releases. Agile doesn't mean unplanned or untested or chaos. If they're consistently rolling out releases with significant regressions, they're doing it wrong.

All that said, I always take what I read on these forums with a huge grain of salt. The comments here are not a representative sample of the user base, just like product reviews on an e-commerce site often aren't. I think anytime you're using heuristic algorithms, like those implemented with artificial neural nets, there will be some situations that have better results and some that are worse. You hope for a net improvement, and you might get it, but you will still have a disproportionate number of people that from that second group that show up to post about it. That doesn't mean there isn't a real problem, but we should all have a critical eye when reading about "bugs" in Autopilot and similar features.


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## Klaus-rf

Please tell me how to take my car back to v9. LOTS of things are broken and unusable in v10.


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## ibgeek

motocoder said:


> There's nothing wrong with Agile releases. Agile doesn't mean unplanned or untested or chaos. If they're consistently rolling out releases with significant regressions, they're doing it wrong.
> 
> All that said, I always take what I read on these forums with a huge grain of salt. The comments here are not a representative sample of the user base, just like product reviews on an e-commerce site often aren't. I think anytime you're using heuristic algorithms, like those implemented with artificial neural nets, there will be some situations that have better results and some that are worse. You hope for a net improvement, and you might get it, but you will still have a disproportionate number of people that from that second group that show up to post about it. That doesn't mean there isn't a real problem, but we should all have a critical eye when reading about "bugs" in Autopilot and similar features.


And to add to that, the code base reacts differently based on regional differences in roads, signs, regulations.... So while one region may see improvements, another may see regressions.


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## ibgeek

Klaus-rf said:


> Please tell me how to take my car back to v9. LOTS of things are broken and unusable in v10.


Click on service on your phone app, let service know what's going on, they can revert your build. They wont want to, but they can.

That said, I think you should just be patient. I'm not happy with it either, but they'll get it fixed fairly quickly.


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## DocScott

I'm also pretty convinced that sometimes something goes wrong in the installation process: either with the firmware installation itself, or with getting the settings right on reboot, or with calibration steps later. Even if it's a small percentage, there are plenty of reports of someone having problems immediately after a firmware update that resolve themselves within a few days, and others that resolve with the next update. It's possible that's just false association (a problem that would have occurred anyway but just happened to crop up right after an update), but if so I think we'd see more reports of problems of that kind suddenly appearing between updates, so I think there's something to it.

If that's true, the those aren't firmware bugs _per se_--they're problems with the update _process_, and could occur any time a new firmware is installed, regardless of its contents.


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## Scranton Model 3 owner

I got 32.12.1 a few days ago, then 32.12.2 No problems with autopilot for me. It's still working pretty well for me.


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## iChris93

slotti said:


> No issue on NOA. BUT, my average consumption rate went from 245Wh/mile to 290Wh/mile!


Any change in your weather?


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## slotti

I am in Los Angeles. So yes, it started dropping temps a bit, but that just means the air-conditioning has to work less hard, so it should be better. 
Checked again yesterday, on surface streets only (not that I could go 80 mph on the highway in our traffic), and it got a bit better. 280......but, here is the crux, I get in the car, and it shows 0....as expedted. Once it starts displaying after a couple of seconds, I start out around 450 or more! I switch to current draw, I can follow how the car never drops below 380 for the first 10 min of the drive......
So I did some testing. Driving the car cold and warm (feels like ICE). Same stretch. Cold 385, warm 265.


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## TomT

2019.32.12.2 took four install attempts for me to get it completely installed. Each time it went a little further until it completely finished satisfactorily the last time...


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## orekart

Sumiguchi said:


> i just got notice this update is ready to install - can anyone confirm that caraoke still works while driving??
> 
> We are going on a road trip tomorrow and this is what my family is looking forward to most! 😂


When in drive Car-aoke is walled behind an EULA style button that makes the user confirm they are a passenger and not the driver who needs to focus on driving.


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## iChris93

slotti said:


> I am in Los Angeles. So yes, it started dropping temps a bit, but that just means the air-conditioning has to work less hard, so it should be better.
> Checked again yesterday, on surface streets only (not that I could go 80 mph on the highway in our traffic), and it got a bit better. 280......but, here is the crux, I get in the car, and it shows 0....as expedted. Once it starts displaying after a couple of seconds, I start out around 450 or more! I switch to current draw, I can follow how the car never drops below 380 for the first 10 min of the drive......
> So I did some testing. Driving the car cold and warm (feels like ICE). Same stretch. Cold 385, warm 265.


Yup, your heater is coming on. Nothing new in the update causing this. Just the weather.


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## FRC

Today is our first day of rain since last spring, so I can't say which update corrected the issue; but, windshield wipers are now much, much, much better. Fifty mile ride in rain this morning, and I never had to touch wiper control. Auto did the job, which was nowhere near true last spring.


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## shareef777

First time I’ve seen this. Comes and goes while driving today. Also prompts about blind spot detection. Any ideas?


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## boppo

shareef777 said:


> First time I've seen this. Comes and goes while driving today. Also prompts about blind spot detection. Any ideas?


I put on 370 miles today and that came up once when I started out from home on a 2 lane back road and that was it. I also had it on version 32.12.1 just a couple times in on day. Can't tell you why thou.


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## Reliev

slotti said:


> I am in Los Angeles. So yes, it started dropping temps a bit, but that just means the air-conditioning has to work less hard, so it should be better.
> Checked again yesterday, on surface streets only (not that I could go 80 mph on the highway in our traffic), and it got a bit better. 280......but, here is the crux, I get in the car, and it shows 0....as expedted. Once it starts displaying after a couple of seconds, I start out around 450 or more! I switch to current draw, I can follow how the car never drops below 380 for the first 10 min of the drive......
> So I did some testing. Driving the car cold and warm (feels like ICE). Same stretch. Cold 385, warm 265.


I'm in Florida here flat roads not much elevation has I've been getting 185-210 during typical drive it's about 85 and balmy always before I was getting 220ish


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## Reliev

boppo said:


> I put on 370 miles today and that came up once when I started out from home on a 2 lane back road and that was it. I also had it on version 32.12.1 just a couple times in on day. Can't tell you why thou.


ive seen this once also its a part of the road where the line wasn't 100% visible but I only have seen it once so I can not confirm this was the reason.


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## iChris93

I did a lot of driving this weekend and experienced both nearly perfect NoA and NoA that needed hand holding to make a lane change. 

The majority of the trips were nearly perfect NoA but yesterday morning when driving to Cleveland, the car would not change lanes if a semi was in a lane adjacent to the lane I was trying to change into. It may start to go and then get startled and swerve back. This happened several times on the way to Cleveland and zero times on the way back form Cleveland.


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## MelindaV

iChris93 said:


> I did a lot of driving this weekend and experienced both nearly perfect NoA and NoA that needed hand holding to make a lane change.
> 
> The majority of the trips were nearly perfect NoA but yesterday morning when driving to Cleveland, the car would not change lanes if a semi was in a lane adjacent to the lane I was trying to change into. It may start to go and then get startled and swerve back. This happened several times on the way to Cleveland and zero times on the way back form Cleveland.


this is consistent with my 1400 mile trip this weekend. Directly after the update, lane changing would cancel nearly every time - with the blue target car outline even showing on the screen as jagged when it would begin to cancel... then the next day, lane changes worked flawlessly.

I didn't notice any of the lane wondering that I typically attribute to new software calibration, but there clearly was something happening the first few hundred miles (or few hours of driving) that wasn't ready for everything to be fully operational.


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## iChris93

MelindaV said:


> this is consistent with my 1400 mile trip this weekend. Directly after the update, lane changing would cancel nearly every time - with the blue target car outline even showing on the screen as jagged when it would begin to cancel... then the next day, lane changes worked flawlessly.


The thing is, the day before I drove over 300 miles with no issues and had the update before that drive. So for me, at least, it was not due to fresh install needing a few hundred miles to calibrate.


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## littlD

tivoboy said:


> I really hate these .x.1 updates. It makes me think that hey, really should install this especially on the heels or a x.-1 release since I think they wouldn't rush out a x.1 release so fast unless there was something pretty compelling to push out. But then, I get used to what works and doesn't work in a regular release, and then boom some update makes things worse. I don' t really think Agile releases are good in a product such as this.


Good thoughts here, here's some background to consider:

In the past (2018), I'd see many owners post they couldn't get the latest version. Before we had the "Advanced" software button, some people would get really impatient, enough to call Tesla to ask for them to push the update.

Also in the past, Tesla would do like any Agile minded company would, put the latest update on a small number of cars, see how the update went, and then widen the release. Only in cases where it was warranted (a bad bug) would they follow up so quickly with another "point" release.

I get it that you want to wait and that's not a bad thing. Seems you have that option either by ignoring the update reminder (a pain yes, but easy to do) or making sure you have not selected "Advanced".


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## NR4P

I received 12.1 in the first day it was out there. No 12.2 for me. I am not complaining, but very odd.

I also think my wh/mile is higher than usual. Temps are no longer 90, they are mid to upper 80s here in S. Fla. Same work commute and expect the A/C to be working less. I estimate wh/mile is about 10-20 points higher than before 12.1. Too bad Tesla will not publish release notes, only new features.


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## John

I'm really loving the Advance software and Download prompts. I'm one of those people who went through three releases in a week, and I was happy to do so. 
I'm in the "Very glad they fix things (whatever it was that got fixed) so often" camp.


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## Kizzy

NR4P said:


> I received 12.1 in the first day it was out there. No 12.2 for me. I am not complaining, but very odd.
> 
> I also think my wh/mile is higher than usual. Temps are no longer 90, they are mid to upper 80s here in S. Fla. Same work commute and expect the A/C to be working less. I estimate wh/mile is about 10-20 points higher than before 12.1. Too bad Tesla will not publish release notes, only new features.


Based on my casual observation (with almost no data), it seems to have increased in efficiency-10-20 Wh/mile lower. I have AWD.

Edit: typos.


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## Mesprit87

FRC said:


> windshield wipers are now much, much, much better.


In my case, on the first drive after the load, I selected drive, my wipers went off at high speed.
Had to turn them off manually. I expect things like that to happen after a load but it goes to say we're not all living the same experience.
This load did fix my flashing interior lights though. It was a present from my last visit to the SC


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## ateslik

shareef777 said:


> First time I've seen this. Comes and goes while driving today. Also prompts about blind spot detection. Any ideas?


I got that on a road trip recently. It happens when the sun is directly blinding the cameras.


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## shareef777

ateslik said:


> I got that on a road trip recently. It happens when the sun is directly blinding the cameras.


Makes sense, just strange that I've never received that before.


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## Mike

NR4P said:


> I received 12.1 in the first day it was out there. No 12.2 for me. I am not complaining, but very odd.
> 
> I also think my wh/mile is higher than usual. Temps are no longer 90, they are mid to upper 80s here in S. Fla. Same work commute and expect the A/C to be working less. I estimate wh/mile is about 10-20 points higher than before 12.1. Too bad Tesla will not publish release notes, only new features.


From the thread where some owners have gotten Canbus info https://teslaownersonline.com/threads/diagnostic-port-and-data-access.7502/post-257886 it seems that (IIRC) the normal operating temperature of the pac is 30C.

Anecdotally I had assumed 28c was when battery conditioning began, so FWIW if the pac temp is below 30C it will begin to use more energy than normal warm weather operations.


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## ibgeek

OK so last week I reported that starting with 2019.11 and all the way to 2019.12.2 my AP and NOA was almost unusable. Something to note is for me those 4 updates all happened within 3 days. 
Well I am very happy to say that I put 230 miles on my M3 standard range plus today and both AP and NOA worked better than ever. Dare I say flawlessly! I'd been reading in a few other forums some speculation that it might take a few days for the car to normalize after an update. Perhaps there was some calibration happening behind the scenes. Based on today's performance I am inclined to believe this theory. Where as on Friday my car wouldn't complete a lane change or merge, today it did so better than ever. It even accelerated during lane changes rather than slowing down as it had often done before. I couldn't be happier with today's performance.


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## JWardell

Mike said:


> From the thread where some owners have gotten Canbus info https://teslaownersonline.com/threads/diagnostic-port-and-data-access.7502/post-257886 it seems that (IIRC) the normal operating temperature of the pac is 30C.
> 
> Anecdotally I had assumed 28c was when battery conditioning began, so FWIW if the pac temp is below 30C it will begin to use more energy than normal warm weather operations.


I don't quite agree with the phrasing there, highest performance temperature of the pack might be 30C but operating temperature is no doubt -40 to 60C or something.
The pack doesn't use more energy at cold temperatures. You have the same amount of energy. You just begin to reduce charging/regen as it falls below 30C and to zero at zero C. It still won't use more energy. Only if the pack needs to be charged with a charger, will it actively generate heat with a stationary motor when temperatures are below 5C or so.

Your car may use more energy in cold weather simply because you are running the cabin heater. But it's not the pack itself using more energy


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## garsh

I had an interesting experience with NoA this morning.

I was approaching a split on the interstate. This is the same split that NoA has handled flawlessly since day one - it has never had a problem with it. But today for some reason, just before the split, alarm sounds started blaring, and the entire left side of the screen displayed a red steering wheel with hands on it. I assume it displayed some kind of message like "take over steering immediately", as I think I've seen that screen before when autopilot panics because it suddenly can't find lane lines, but I didn't look closely this time.

So of course I took over steering, as well as the accelerator. The car couldn't tell that I had taken over steering, because the road was straight, so the alarm continued blaring for a couple more seconds. It finally stopped after the road started curving and it could detect that I was indeed steering. Once that was done, I took a closer look at the display. The big scary red steering wheel symbol was gone by this point, but there was a message overlayed on the left part of the display that said something like "autopilot was unavailable". At this point, I re-engaged autopilot (successfully), and had no more issues during the rest of my commute.


----------



## Mesprit87

garsh said:


> I had an interesting experience with NoA this morning.
> 
> I was approaching a split on the interstate. This is the same split that NoA has handled flawlessly since day one - it has never had a problem with it. But today for some reason, just before the split, alarm sounds started blaring, and the entire left side of the screen displayed a red steering wheel with hands on it. I assume it displayed some kind of message like "take over steering immediately", as I think I've seen that screen before when autopilot panics because it suddenly can't find lane lines, but I didn't look closely this time.
> 
> So of course I took over steering, as well as the accelerator. The car couldn't tell that I had taken over steering, because the road was straight, so the alarm continued blaring for a couple more seconds. It finally stopped after the road started curving and it could detect that I was indeed steering. Once that was done, I took a closer look at the display. The big scary red steering wheel symbol was gone by this point, but there was a message overlayed on the left part of the display that said something like "autopilot was unavailable". At this point, I re-engaged autopilot (successfully), and had no more issues during the rest of my commute.


If I get that kind of event with my wife in the the car, I would end up divorced
Unless she dies of a heart attack first


----------



## M3OC Rules

garsh said:


> I had an interesting experience with NoA this morning.
> 
> I was approaching a split on the interstate. This is the same split that NoA has handled flawlessly since day one - it has never had a problem with it. But today for some reason, just before the split, alarm sounds started blaring, and the entire left side of the screen displayed a red steering wheel with hands on it. I assume it displayed some kind of message like "take over steering immediately", as I think I've seen that screen before when autopilot panics because it suddenly can't find lane lines, but I didn't look closely this time.
> 
> So of course I took over steering, as well as the accelerator. The car couldn't tell that I had taken over steering, because the road was straight, so the alarm continued blaring for a couple more seconds. It finally stopped after the road started curving and it could detect that I was indeed steering. Once that was done, I took a closer look at the display. The big scary red steering wheel symbol was gone by this point, but there was a message overlayed on the left part of the display that said something like "autopilot was unavailable". At this point, I re-engaged autopilot (successfully), and had no more issues during the rest of my commute.


I had something similar this morning except I had just turned off autosteer(still had TACC on) in order to give a semi more room. My tires probably were on the shoulder line so that may have been a little more justified but having that alarm going off like that was a bit extreme. I have noticed more issues(false positives) with V10 along with some improvements.


----------



## Needsdecaf

ibgeek said:


> It even accelerated during lane changes rather than slowing down as it had often done before. I couldn't be happier with today's performance.


I've noticed this same behavior since this weekend. I was on 11.1 and my windshield got replaced, and the car had to re-calibrate as a result. Combine that with the upgrade to 12.2 which happened on Monday, and the car really has improved. Auto lane changes are much smoother and as you said, the car even accelerates into the lane. Ping-pong back and forth to avoid trucks has been reduced. I've still had a few issues of aborted lane changes due to a large truck two lanes over. And one lane change this morning where someone was in my blind spot. NOA wanted to change lanes and I confirmed, thinking it would go when the car passed but no, it started to come over!

So not perfect. But improved.


----------



## Kimmo57

I haven't noticed any improvements after any v10 bug fix updates. At least here in Finland the LTE keeps breaking up all the time and Spötify works hardly at all. It used to be really good. I would gladly go back to v09.


----------



## John

Kimmo57 said:


> I haven't noticed any improvements after any v10 bug fix updates. At least here in Finland the LTE keeps breaking up all the time and Spötify works hardly at all. It used to be really good. I would gladly go back to v09.


I'm not sure this applies to your situation, but a mobile tech told me recently that they do replace quite a few LTE modules (the circuit board part). He told me (I have not verified) that it's easily accessible under the glove box. If you're handy, it might be worth a poking around to make sure it's secure. Also, the antenna is in a mirror (in the US, the left side mirror), and it has a connector as well. Might want to check that and make sure it's not accidentally up against something that's interfering.

For what it's worth.


----------



## Enginerd

garsh said:


> I had an interesting experience with NoA this morning.
> 
> I was approaching a split on the interstate. This is the same split that NoA has handled flawlessly since day one - it has never had a problem with it. But today for some reason, just before the split, alarm sounds started blaring, and the entire left side of the screen displayed a red steering wheel with hands on it. I assume it displayed some kind of message like "take over steering immediately", as I think I've seen that screen before when autopilot panics because it suddenly can't find lane lines, but I didn't look closely this time.
> 
> So of course I took over steering, as well as the accelerator. The car couldn't tell that I had taken over steering, because the road was straight, so the alarm continued blaring for a couple more seconds. It finally stopped after the road started curving and it could detect that I was indeed steering. Once that was done, I took a closer look at the display. The big scary red steering wheel symbol was gone by this point, but there was a message overlayed on the left part of the display that said something like "autopilot was unavailable". At this point, I re-engaged autopilot (successfully), and had no more issues during the rest of my commute.


I had a similar event on 2019.32.11.1: a red hands AP/NOA auto lane change abort, where NOA initiated the lane change and steered to cross the lane line. Then the red hands displayed and AP completely disengaged. I didn't notice any abnormal conditions, so this one is a mystery.


----------



## DocScott

If there really is an AP re-calibration period after a new firmware update (and I think there's pretty good evidence that there is), then perhaps Tesla should re-think the way that's presented. Perhaps some of the following would be helpful:

* Warn prior to installation that AP performance may be degraded for a few hundred miles after installation
* Provide some sort of icon on the home screen that indicates recalibration is in progress
* Provide a text alert the first time AP is engaged before recalibration is complete that performance may be degraded
* Provide a text alert on the home screen the first time the car is powered on subsequent to calibration being complete

Having some idea that the process was going on, and when it was complete, would save a lot of stress and angst.


----------



## Ze1000

DocScott said:


> If there really is an AP re-calibration period after a new firmware update (and I think there's pretty good evidence that there is), then perhaps Tesla should re-think the way that's presented. Perhaps some of the following would be helpful:
> 
> * Warn prior to installation that AP performance may be degraded for a few hundred miles after installation
> * Provide some sort of icon on the home screen that indicates recalibration is in progress
> * Provide a text alert the first time AP is engaged before recalibration is complete that performance may be degraded
> * Provide a text alert on the home screen the first time the car is powered on subsequent to calibration being complete
> 
> Having some idea that the process was going on, and when it was complete, would save a lot of stress and angst.


When I first got the car we had the AP calibration period (~50 miles)
When NoA was introduced we had the calibration in progress period for all the cameras.
Both showed in the UI in some way.
If there was a real recalibration period I would believe that Tesla would display it.


----------



## Ze1000

This version 32.12.2 is one of the best I've been on Autopilot. There are old problems, but a lot of improvement.
In the other hand, 32.11 and 32.12.1 were pretty much useless, never before got to the point to say that I can't use AP, like I had to do with those 2 versions.

This period has been the longest without a new week build. Current is 10 weeks old. The longest I saw before was 6 weeks.


----------



## garsh

M3OC Rules said:


> I had something similar this morning except I had just turned off autosteer(still had TACC on) in order to give a semi more room. My tires probably were on the shoulder line so that may have been a little more justified but having that alarm going off like that was a bit extreme. I have noticed more issues(false positives) with V10 along with some improvements.


That's lane departure warning. I have that happen all the time. Yes, I believe it's exactly the same warning sounds and display message, but in this case the cause is the car drifting over a lane line. It's quite annoying too.


----------



## SR22pilot

When I get in and out of my car there is now a SAVED message that shows up when it changes from or into Easy Entry. When I leave work and get in the car will change to my profile (same saved message) but the seat doesn't move. When I select my profile again the seat moves into the correct position. This never happened before at any time. I have filed a bug report.


----------



## MelindaV

SR22pilot said:


> When I get in and out of my car there is now a SAVED message that shows up when it changes from or into Easy Entry. When I leave work and get in the car will change to my profile (same saved message) but the seat doesn't move. When I select my profile again the seat moves into the correct position. This never happened before at any time. I have filed a bug report.


the profiles not save various settings dynamically - while previously when you made a change, you had to go into the profile pulldown menu and choose to save.
the seat not moving is a bug multiple people have noticed.


----------



## Mike

JWardell said:


> I don't quite agree with the phrasing there, highest performance temperature of the pack might be 30C but operating temperature is no doubt -40 to 60C or something.
> The pack doesn't use more energy at cold temperatures. You have the same amount of energy. You just begin to reduce charging/regen as it falls below 30C and to zero at zero C. It still won't use more energy. Only if the pack needs to be charged with a charger, will it actively generate heat with a stationary motor when temperatures are below 5C or so.
> 
> Your car may use more energy in cold weather simply because you are running the cabin heater. But it's not the pack itself using more energy


I follow the great work you guys are carrying out exploring the operating parameters of our cars via exploration of the various digital outputs.

Perhaps I have misinterpreted some of the raw data.

Based on your reply, no battery conditioning takes place unless the pac needs charging with a (super?)charger.

If this is accurate, perhaps another look at "vampire drain" rates is in order.

With no sentry mode use, no active smart summon (ready) used and no third party software applications used, my vampire drain rate while parked in tepid conditions (above 10c) is 0.5% per day.

In the winter, my rate is at or greater than 1% a day.

My hypothesis is that (enough) battery conditioning is taking place at temps below 10c that I can measure the increased vampire drain rate using only the SOC % icon as it is displayed on the UI.

If your data is showing this hypothesis to be wrong, please direct me to your data that shows it.

The only reason I ask is that dwell time at an airport parking lot in January seems to siphon off total SOC % faster than in June.


----------



## Hugh_Jassol

garsh said:


> I had an interesting experience with NoA this morning.
> 
> I was approaching a split on the interstate. This is the same split that NoA has handled flawlessly since day one - it has never had a problem with it. But today for some reason, just before the split, alarm sounds started blaring, and the entire left side of the screen displayed a red steering wheel with hands on it. I assume it displayed some kind of message like "take over steering immediately", as I think I've seen that screen before when autopilot panics because it suddenly can't find lane lines, but I didn't look closely this time.
> 
> So of course I took over steering, as well as the accelerator. The car couldn't tell that I had taken over steering, because the road was straight, so the alarm continued blaring for a couple more seconds. It finally stopped after the road started curving and it could detect that I was indeed steering. Once that was done, I took a closer look at the display. The big scary red steering wheel symbol was gone by this point, but there was a message overlayed on the left part of the display that said something like "autopilot was unavailable". At this point, I re-engaged autopilot (successfully), and had no more issues during the rest of my commute.


This is a "standard" message when the AP doesn't know what to do/can't tell where the lanes are, etc. There was a transition between two freeways I took regularly that would trip this warning 100% of the time until a few updates ago. IT's because for the last bit of the transitions, the lane lines were non existent and the "grooves" in the pavement would make it look like you were driving at a 45 deg angle...


----------



## garsh

Hugh_Jassol said:


> This is a "standard" message when the AP doesn't know what to do/can't tell where the lanes are, etc.


Yep, it definitely acted that way. But this split in particular is very well delineated. And the error message that it displayed afterwards was new - I don't remember ever seeing it after AP panicked due to lane lines not being found.


----------



## Eli

I had a weird experience on this build where the car was in NoA and stopped for several minutes at a border crossing. Then all of a sudden this alarm starts blaring with "Take over immediately" on the screen and the car sets the parking brake and turns on the hazards. I guess the Autopilot computer crashed or something.


----------



## Long Ranger

Eli said:


> I had a weird experience on this build where the car was in NoA and stopped for several minutes at a border crossing. Then all of a sudden this alarm starts blaring with "Take over immediately" on the screen and the car sets the parking brake and turns on the hazards. I guess the Autopilot computer crashed or something.


You didn't take off your seatbelt did you? I had that sequence once in AP when I thought I could briefly unbuckle to take my coat off in stop-and-go traffic. Never trying that again.


----------



## Eli

Long Ranger said:


> You didn't take off your seatbelt did you? I had that sequence once in AP when I thought I could briefly unbuckle to take my coat off in stop-and-go traffic. Never trying that again.


No but there were lots of people leaving their cars and walking in between stopped cars, so maybe it broke because of that.


----------



## DocScott

It's pouring rain here tonight and...the automatic wipers worked great! In similar conditions in the past the wipers would not come on nearly enough. That's been a long-standing problem for our car, and at least based on tonight, it finally seems to be fixed. Yay!


----------



## gary in NY

DocScott said:


> It's pouring rain here tonight and...the automatic wipers worked great! In similar conditions in the past the wipers would not come on nearly enough. That's been a long-standing problem for our car, and at least based on tonight, it finally seems to be fixed. Yay!


It's pouting rain here tonight also, and the auto wipers were nearly useless. I wish I could have shared your experience.

My profile shows on the screen, but nothing happens until I select it manually, as has been previously reported.


----------



## ibgeek

gary in NY said:


> It's pouting rain here tonight also, and the auto wipers were nearly useless. I wish I could have shared your experience.
> 
> My profile shows on the screen, but nothing happens until I select it manually, as has been previously reported.


Huge changes to the wipers are coming soon. Read an article a day or two ago that Elon mentioned basically a complete re-write to how the auto wipers work that is coming "soon". 
Personally, my wipers have always worked great, but I've seen plenty who are having the issues that you are having. Help is coming.


----------



## John

Eli said:


> I had a weird experience on this build where the car was in NoA and stopped for several minutes at a border crossing. Then all of a sudden this alarm starts blaring with "Take over immediately" on the screen and the car sets the parking brake and turns on the hazards. I guess the Autopilot computer crashed or something.


Sounds just like what happens if you miss too many nags.


----------



## Kimmo57

John said:


> I'm not sure this applies to your situation, but a mobile tech told me recently that they do replace quite a few LTE modules (the circuit board part). He told me (I have not verified) that it's easily accessible under the glove box. If you're handy, it might be worth a poking around to make sure it's secure. Also, the antenna is in a mirror (in the US, the left side mirror), and it has a connector as well. Might want to check that and make sure it's not accidentally up against something that's interfering.
> 
> For what it's worth.


Thanks, but this is a common problem after v10. I'm sure it's software realted.


----------



## SR22pilot

MelindaV said:


> the profiles not save various settings dynamically - while previously when you made a change, you had to go into the profile pulldown menu and choose to save.
> the seat not moving is a bug multiple people have noticed.


The save message often occurs when I have done nothing other than gotten into the car i.e. I haven't manually adjusted the seat.


----------



## MelindaV

SR22pilot said:


> The save message often occurs when I have done nothing other than gotten into the car i.e. I haven't manually adjusted the seat.


It now saves the temp too, so was the hvac changed in some way?


----------



## ibgeek

SR22pilot said:


> The save message often occurs when I have done nothing other than gotten into the car i.e. I haven't manually adjusted the seat.


The thought process with this action is to allow you to make changes as needed and the car will save them at the end of the drive so that you do not have to do it manually. There are pros and cons to this but for the most part I think its a good idea. We've just gotten used to doing the saving ourselves.


----------



## SR22pilot

MelindaV said:


> It now saves the temp too, so was the hvac changed in some way?


No. Just parked for work and then went to go home. Wait, I'm thinking of the seat movement problem. As far as the "saved" message it wouldn't be temp but it might be from changing how much of the music screen is displayed. I leave HVAC set the same almost all the time.


----------



## Eli

Anyone else seeing a huge amount of traffic on WiFi since this build? My car has been staying awake in the garage downloading over a GB per day on two occasions, it's fully up-to-date with nav maps and 32.12.2. May be ADAS tiles but they're usually very small.


----------



## SR22pilot

I watched a little more closely and sure enough SAVED flashed when I got in my car to leave work just as the seat was moving into position. When I got home I left the car parked in the driveway. I added some air to the tires and then moved the car into the garage. When I got back in to put the car in the garage and the seat started moving there came the SAVED message again. No big deal. It just seems strange.


----------



## cabbie

Voted no above. 32.12.2 shows as downloading but makes no progress, has been this way for two days.


----------



## John

Eli said:


> Anyone else seeing a huge amount of traffic on WiFi since this build?


Yes, lot of traffic on mine in the last couple of days (don't know how much, or whether up or down, stupid router).


----------



## ChiTesla

garsh said:


> I had an interesting experience with NoA this morning.
> 
> I was approaching a split on the interstate. This is the same split that NoA has handled flawlessly since day one - it has never had a problem with it. But today for some reason, just before the split, alarm sounds started blaring, and the entire left side of the screen displayed a red steering wheel with hands on it. I assume it displayed some kind of message like "take over steering immediately", as I think I've seen that screen before when autopilot panics because it suddenly can't find lane lines, but I didn't look closely this time.
> 
> So of course I took over steering, as well as the accelerator. The car couldn't tell that I had taken over steering, because the road was straight, so the alarm continued blaring for a couple more seconds. It finally stopped after the road started curving and it could detect that I was indeed steering. Once that was done, I took a closer look at the display. The big scary red steering wheel symbol was gone by this point, but there was a message overlayed on the left part of the display that said something like "autopilot was unavailable". At this point, I re-engaged autopilot (successfully), and had no more issues during the rest of my commute.


I have had this occur several times over the past year, even before V10. I could not pinpoint the reason to lane lines, lane merges or anything obvious. One time I remember noticing that LTE was out (x). Maybe a neural net connection problem or an on-board computer problem? I do remember that it had always happened near or under about 50 mph. Never while cruising at 75-80 mph in the fast lane.


----------



## NEO

For those of you experiencing issues with AP, don't forget that there is a specific email for ap feedback: [email protected]


----------



## Reliev

regarding the traffic if you did the auto opt in for data in the past I believe its the 72 hours of sentry data to be stored in the cloud. I thought it went over cellular though but that is what I was thinking. @John @Eli


----------



## ibgeek

cabbie said:


> Voted no above. 32.12.2 shows as downloading but makes no progress, has been this way for two days.


Do a complete power down of your car. Wait until you hear the super bottle burp sound. Usually takes 2 or 3 minutes. Do not touch anything in your car while you wait. Then after you hear the sound, tap the break. 
This can often resolve the issue you are seeing. If you do this and still have issues then use your app to let service know. They can often fix this remotely.


----------



## Kizzy

NEO said:


> For those of you experiencing issues with AP, don't forget that there is a specific email for ap feedback: [email protected]


Where do you hear about these email addresses in the first place?


----------



## francoisp

Yesterday I had a weird incident driving with NoA on my way to Dayton from Cleveland. As I was almost done passing an exit on interstate 70 driving on the right lane, the car became confused and decided that the right lane was veering to the right even though the markings on the road clearly delineated the exit. I had to react quickly and force the car back on its original course. My actual exit was 30 miles away and the car never activated the turn signal so it's not like it was trying to take the exit. I've never experienced anything like this before this software update.


----------



## Jakey

After getting this update black screen when put into reverse got alot worse. It'll happen 70-80% of the time and it can range from a few seconds to almost 20 seconds. Also I have noticed my seating position is not saving. Sigh.


----------



## bwilson4web

FrancoisP said:


> NoA on my way to Dayton from Cleveland. As I was almost done passing an exit on interstate 70 driving on the right lane, the car became confused and decided that the right lane was veering to the right


Could you identify the specific exit?

I've seen and documented specific NoA issues with dash cam and Google Earth images so I can detect and deal with these anomalies. For example the Mississippi side roads and curved dashed intersection line that can lead to driving toward the opposite side ditch or risky lane changes. Details about the specific problems help everyone.

Thanks,
Bob Wilson


----------



## cabbie

ibgeek said:


> Do a complete power down of your car. Wait until you hear the super bottle burp sound. Usually takes 2 or 3 minutes. Do not touch anything in your car while you wait. Then after you hear the sound, tap the break.
> This can often resolve the issue you are seeing. If you do this and still have issues then use your app to let service know. They can often fix this remotely.


Thanks! Went ahead and called service and they pushed the download so all is good. 
The car is showing connected but a weak wifi signal in my garage. My phone and computer have all bars showing when in the garage. I also see the neighbors wifi on my phone and computer but not on the car wifi. I guess the next step is to move the router closer.


----------



## francoisp

bwilson4web said:


> Could you identify the specific exit?
> 
> I've seen and documented specific NoA issues with dash cam and Google Earth images so I can detect and deal with these anomalies. For example the Mississippi side roads and curved dashed intersection line that can lead to driving toward the opposite side ditch or risky lane changes. Details about the specific problems help everyone.
> 
> Thanks,
> Bob Wilson


Unfortunately I cannot help you. This was a one-time trip and I do not expect to be back there anytime soon.


----------



## skygraff

Was looking forward to driving a long trip with this load but, right after charging last night, got a no drive error and had to flat bed (on a weekend so...). Don’t think it’s firmware related but will advise.


----------



## JustTheTip

And we’re back to usb music not continuing where it left off playing. Ugh.


----------



## sduck

Yes indeed. The versions prior to this were prone to having USB tracks freezing in the middle. Apparently they've fixed that, but now we're back to the car constantly forgetting where the music is over power cycles. I've been barraging all the support lines I can think of about this - actually got a polite reply, stating that they are aware of the problem, will hopefully fix it soon, but can make no promises as to when, blah blah blah.


----------



## NEO

Kizzy said:


> Where do you hear about these email addresses in the first place?


I got it from our local Tesla club newsletter


----------



## bwilson4web

Well this is a pleasant surprise. Getting ready for the 1000 km challenge, I charged to 100% and the last time, 100% charge gave 234 mi:










The charging session started at 66%, took 03:47:30 (hh:mm:ss) for 24.15 kWh from the Juicebox 40. Ambient temperature, 61F (16C). My expectation was adding ~18.3 kWh. Speculation, battery thermal management may have increased the power consumption.

SR+ Model 3; odometer 14,729 mi (23,566 km); service date March 26, 2019.

Well this is a surprise in my e-mail:








I was expecting 18.3 kWh and this e-mail reports 17.523 kWh. This is a new EVSE puzzle. Regardless, the 17.523 projects to 52.569 kWh.

Bob Wilson

p.s. The EVSE server has a bug that reports only the last of a split charge session. The actual electrical charging was 24.15 kWh.


----------



## Reliev

I am having constant issues with Spotify where I have to select something else and come back it seems as the connection drops also sometimes I dont get this issue at all sometimes it's the entire drive any workarounds besides what I am doing or any pro tips?


----------



## Mike

Reliev said:


> I am having constant issues with Spotify where I have to select something else and come back it seems as the connection drops also sometimes I dont get this issue at all sometimes it's the entire drive any workarounds besides what I am doing or any pro tips?


I've been in constant contact with Tesla (corporate) with this same issue.

Every time it happens, I forward the date time group of the event to help with de-snagging.

It seems to me that there is no memory for the Spotify settings as first start of the day from a deep sleep always has about five seconds of "no data" before it either successfully keeps playing what was playing the last time the car was on OR it goes into the fail to load scenario.

Signing out and then back in is a mistake because it has to re down load all my playlists and that always take about five to eighth minutes.

I select streaming music, start a streaming song and then re select Spotify and usually clears things up.......unless a newly added playlist is still downloading.


----------



## ibgeek

Mike said:


> I've been in constant contact with Tesla (corporate) with this same issue.
> 
> Every time it happens, I forward the date time group of the event to help with de-snagging.
> 
> It seems to me that there is no memory for the Spotify settings as first start of the day from a deep sleep always has about five seconds of "no data" before it either successfully keeps playing what was playing the last time the car was on OR it goes into the fail to load scenario.
> 
> Signing out and then back in is a mistake because it has to re down load all my playlists and that always take about five to eighth minutes.
> 
> I select streaming music, start a streaming song and then re select Spotify and usually clears things up.......unless a newly added playlist is still downloading.


That would likely explain why I do not have this issue. With Sentry mode on 100% of the time, my car does not sleep. The times I have had issues with streaming as a whole were when I manually shut down and restarted my car after updates were installed.


----------



## Scranton Model 3 owner

Has anyone had NOA completely disable itself when you drive/accelerate over 90mph? You are then given a message that driving speed exceeded and NOA cannot be enabled for the remainder of the drive?


----------



## iChris93

Scranton Model 3 owner said:


> Has anyone had NOA completely disable itself when you drive/accelerate over 90mph? You are then given a message that driving speed exceeded and NOA cannot be enabled for the remainder of the drive?


Yup. 90 mph is the limit. Otherwise you get put in AP timeout.


----------



## Alighieri256

Scranton Model 3 owner said:


> Has anyone had NOA completely disable itself when you drive/accelerate over 90mph? You are then given a message that driving speed exceeded and NOA cannot be enabled for the remainder of the drive?


That's interesting that you're just now noticing this, because I was just about to comment that they had disabled this nanny. I punched up to ~93 yesterday on NoA and, much to my surprise, it didn't skip a beat.


----------



## ajl710

Minor glitch but not sure if this is present on previous versions also. Today on my way to work I noticed that on the model 3, the volume control slider is still active shortly after the graphic disappears.

I found this by adjusting the volume, then immediately trying to click the next song while my music page was minimized in the smallest form as a bottom tab bar basically. The volume jumped all the way up.

I tried again by letting the box disappear after adjusting the volume and then sliding my finger back and forth where the slider would be and it changes the sound without the volume box being there.


----------



## Flashgj

ajl710 said:


> Minor glitch but not sure if this is present on previous versions also. Today on my way to work I noticed that on the model 3, the volume control slider is still active shortly after the graphic disappears.
> .


This is by design and not a glitch at all. You can control many things on the screen by just sliding across the icon, thus saving a step and Adjusting something quickly. I personally love that feature and use it all the time.


----------



## ajl710

Flashgj said:


> This is by design and not a glitch at all. You can control many things on the screen by just sliding across the icon, thus saving a step and Adjusting something quickly. I personally love that feature and use it all the time.


I understand that feature. This is not really what I mean though. This is a button functioning even after the graphic disappears. I'm explicitly clicking the next song button on the music tab and instead, the volume of the car adjusts because it is where the volume slider graphic was previously located on screen. It's minor though because it will only still actuate the volume control if you touch it within a second or so of the slider box dissapearing.

To recreate this, if anyone else wants to try, adjust the volume and let the slider box disappear and then quickly pretend to slide the volume slider even though it's not there and if it's the same as mine, it will adjust the volume no matter what the window present may be on the screen whether it be the map or music control or internet, etc.


----------



## Tesla blue Y

I just noticed today that with this update I lost my local radio station. KTCZ cities 97.1. it used to be +available under the radio icon now it is not there or tune in. Anyone have any idea where to look?


----------



## ateslik

Tesla blue 3 said:


> I just noticed today that with this update I lost my local radio station. KTCZ cities 97.1. it used to be +available under the radio icon now it is not there or tune in. Anyone have any idea where to look?


mabye it's one of those stations whose podcast has been taken down and is now only offered by the Radio.com app. That happened to me with KNX1070 news radio. Now if I want to hear that station I need to fire up the radio.com app on my phone and share it to the car via bluetooth.

Laaaaaaaame.


----------



## francoisp

Tesla blue 3 said:


> I just noticed today that with this update I lost my local radio station. KTCZ cities 97.1. it used to be +available under the radio icon now it is not there or tune in. Anyone have any idea where to look?


Have you tried to enter the station ID using "Direct Tune" and see if it adds it again to your listing?


----------



## Long Ranger

ajl710 said:


> To recreate this, if anyone else wants to try, adjust the volume and let the slider box disappear and then quickly pretend to slide the volume slider even though it's not there and if it's the same as mine, it will adjust the volume no matter what the window present may be on the screen whether it be the map or music control or internet, etc.


Just want to warn people to be careful when reproducing this bug. I found that it can cause the volume to play at full volume and it can be difficult to turn down or mute.

I reproduced the bug as described, and it was changing the volume as I moved my finger back and forth where the slider used to be. However things got really weird as I continued to slide back and forth. The direction got inverted so that sliding to right decreased volume and left increased volume. Then it went to full volume no matter what. I spun the steering wheel volume control and it showed low volume, I even clicked it so that it showed mute, but still was playing full volume. I clicked the screen volume control and it showed full volume. I think at that point my steering wheel control started working, but direction was inverted. After that point it started working normally, but I'm not exactly sure what I did to get it working.

in general, I don't actually care much about this bug because I always use the steering control, and was just trying to reproduce it out of curiosity. Maybe I'll learn to not try that while driving next time.


----------



## Rick Steinwand

garsh said:


> I had an interesting experience with NoA this morning.
> 
> I was approaching a split on the interstate. This is the same split that NoA has handled flawlessly since day one - it has never had a problem with it. But today for some reason, just before the split, alarm sounds started blaring, and the entire left side of the screen displayed a red steering wheel with hands on it. I assume it displayed some kind of message like "take over steering immediately", as I think I've seen that screen before when autopilot panics because it suddenly can't find lane lines, but I didn't look closely this time.
> 
> So of course I took over steering, as well as the accelerator. The car couldn't tell that I had taken over steering, because the road was straight, so the alarm continued blaring for a couple more seconds. It finally stopped after the road started curving and it could detect that I was indeed steering. Once that was done, I took a closer look at the display. The big scary red steering wheel symbol was gone by this point, but there was a message overlayed on the left part of the display that said something like "autopilot was unavailable". At this point, I re-engaged autopilot (successfully), and had no more issues during the rest of my commute.


A good day to wear brown pants!


----------



## Tesla blue Y

FrancoisP said:


> Have you tried to enter the station ID using "Direct Tune" and see if it adds it again to your listing?


I attempted that hoping I could put in the call sign and the 97.1 with no joy.

thanks for the thought


----------



## MelindaV

Tesla blue 3 said:


> I attempted that hoping I could put in the call sign and the 97.1 with no joy.
> 
> thanks for the thought


are you saying it doesnt come up in the FM tuner? or it does but not in Tune-in?


----------



## Tesla blue Y

MelindaV said:


> are you saying it doesnt come up in the FM tuner? or it does but not in Tune-in?


both .it used to be in the FM tuner


----------



## JeanDeBarraux

garsh said:


> I had an interesting experience with NoA this morning.
> 
> I was approaching a split on the interstate. This is the same split that NoA has handled flawlessly since day one - it has never had a problem with it. But today for some reason, just before the split, alarm sounds started blaring, and the entire left side of the screen displayed a red steering wheel with hands on it. I assume it displayed some kind of message like "take over steering immediately", as I think I've seen that screen before when autopilot panics because it suddenly can't find lane lines, but I didn't look closely this time.
> 
> So of course I took over steering, as well as the accelerator. The car couldn't tell that I had taken over steering, because the road was straight, so the alarm continued blaring for a couple more seconds. It finally stopped after the road started curving and it could detect that I was indeed steering. Once that was done, I took a closer look at the display. The big scary red steering wheel symbol was gone by this point, but there was a message overlayed on the left part of the display that said something like "autopilot was unavailable". At this point, I re-engaged autopilot (successfully), and had no more issues during the rest of my commute.


Interesting, I had the exact same thing happen to me once (back in April 2019). I was going through the tunnel between France and Italy (Fréjus) and at about the mid point, autopilot became unavailable until I got out of the tunnel. I am guessing this may have been caused by the loss of the GPS signal, but I've traveled through the same tunnel a couple times since and didn't see this problem again.


----------



## JeanDeBarraux

FrancoisP said:


> Yesterday I had a weird incident driving with NoA on my way to Dayton from Cleveland. As I was almost done passing an exit on interstate 70 driving on the right lane, the car became confused and decided that the right lane was veering to the right even though the markings on the road clearly delineated the exit. I had to react quickly and force the car back on its original course. My actual exit was 30 miles away and the car never activated the turn signal so it's not like it was trying to take the exit. I've never experienced anything like this before this software update.


This has been going on for some time. There's a fork near where I live where the car got confused every time I was going south and there's a left-turning lane that the car would try to engage and quickly go back a bit further down the road. It got better in the last few releases. There's still a bit of a nudge when I go near those points, but it's much less frightening. That being said, I'm using AP on roads that are clearly not meant for AP use... so I don't blame Tesla.


----------



## Ze1000

Tesla blue 3 said:


> both .it used to be in the FM tuner


You enter the frequency yourself. Tesla FM radio is like any other. 
If the name does not show up it does not mean that it can't be tuned.


----------



## Tesla blue Y

Ze1000 said:


> You enter the frequency yourself. Tesla FM radio is like any other.
> If the name does not show up it does not mean that it can't be tuned.


I put in the frequency and I get a spinning circle with which i have watched for 3 minutes with no finding the radio station. Just for giggles I checked and it is an iHeart station and it still exists just not in my car.


----------



## Ze1000

Tesla blue 3 said:


> I put in the frequency and I get a spinning circle with which i have watched for 3 minutes with no finding the radio station. Just for giggles I checked and it is an iHeart station and it still exists just not in my car.


FM is an over the air signal, that only requires to tune into the frequency. If it is local station, then you just need to be in the range of the broadcast and set your FM radio to that frequency.
If you need to search, then you are trying to use streaming (Internet based). You have three options for that, Slacker, Spotify (not used for "stations") and TuneIn radio, which is probably the one you are trying to use. They are just apps, and the service is provided by them. If the station is not available in TuneIn, it means that it has been dropped from that service or you need to try to search in a different way. You can go into the TuneIn radio website and search in there or open a support case with them.


----------



## MelindaV

Tesla blue 3 said:


> I put in the frequency and I get a spinning circle with which i have watched for 3 minutes with no finding the radio station. Just for giggles I checked and it is an iHeart station and it still exists just not in my car.


if you are not getting it on FM, it is not on the air in your area


----------



## iChris93

MelindaV said:


> if you are not getting it on FM, it is not on the air in your area


Or there is a problem with the FM tuner.


----------



## francoisp

iChris93 said:


> Or there is a problem with the FM tuner.


Can you try dialing the station from another source like a home tuner or another car?


----------



## Tesla blue Y

FrancoisP said:


> Can you try dialing the station from another source like a home tuner or another car?


Well it is on line in my wife's RAV4 sitting in my driveway 20ft from my 3.

So before calling Tesla about this I sat and rebooted the car 3 times in a row and my local station came back on line.

Thanks for all the responses


----------



## francoisp

Tesla blue 3 said:


> Well it is on line in my wife's RAV4 sitting in my driveway 20ft from my 3


Then I suggest you take it in to a service center for a diagnostic.


----------



## MelindaV

Tesla blue 3 said:


> Well it is on line in my wife's RAV4 sitting in my driveway 20ft from my 3


you mean over the air, right?
what does the FM tuner do with other local stations?


----------



## Mike

Since Spotify came online for us, I've had nothing but "loading error" issues since the first day we had Spotify (native to the UI).

My hack that works most of the time is to select streaming music, start a song, then re-select Spotify and drill down to the song that "should" have been playing before it bogged down.

I've been working with Tesla (corporate) on this issue, with them passing some over the air updates in an attempt to problem solve.

Where this is all going: although the Spotify problem is still not solved, one of the over the air updates two days ago surreptitiously changed my Sentry Mode settings where all three boxes were checked off (versus only the one box for "home" being checked off).

I couldn't figure out why everywhere I was going I would not see the Sentry Mode icon on the UI once I put the car into Park.


----------



## Francois Gaucher

Eli said:


> Anyone else seeing a huge amount of traffic on WiFi since this build? My car has been staying awake in the garage downloading over a GB per day on two occasions, it's fully up-to-date with nav maps and 32.12.2. May be ADAS tiles but they're usually very small.
> 
> View attachment 29926


I saw that also on mine. 700 mb of download


----------



## gary in NY

Did I mention how bad the auto wipers SUCK? 

Drove all day in the rain. This has got to get better. Hopefully, the Deep Rain AI is going to solve this.

You would think manually running the wipers would cue the car that it is not "seeing" the rain, particularly when I'm doing it every 20 seconds.

I love my car, but boy these auto wipers stink.


----------



## iChris93

gary in NY said:


> Did I mention how bad the auto wipers SUCK?
> 
> Drove all day in the rain. This has got to get better. Hopefully, the Deep Rain AI is going to solve this.
> 
> You would think manually running the wipers would cue the car that it is not "seeing" the rain, particularly when I'm doing it every 20 seconds.
> 
> I love my car, but boy these auto wipers stink.


I thought Tesla has improved the auto wipers to nearly perfect, until today. There was a light rain while I was driving and I had to manually trigger a sweep multiple times.


----------



## Nautilus

Interesting. We had pretty constant rain Saturday of varying degrees of intensity, from sprinkling to monsoon. I took the opportunity to try out the auto wipers again and they actually worked pretty well for me throughout the different conditions, including driving behind other cars and getting hit with all their road spray.


----------



## bwilson4web

I'm finding climate conditioning goes on but doesn't shutdown after an hour.



















Temperatures closer to 50-60F, I had expected the car to shutoff climate control on its own. I'm not so worried about this as I expect warming the battery would take awhile:

warming cabin - should be fairly quick, less than an hour
warming battery - should be longer
Bob Wilson


----------



## DocScott

It worked great for me the other night in pouring rain. Then, during the day today, there was a misty rain with a lot of road spray, and it barely worked at all, forcing me to use repeated manual activations.

I don't quite understand why this is so hard. It seems like it should be pretty easy to train a neural net to identify "blurry." If it detects blurry vision, it should then try the wipers, and if things don't get less blurry, then suppress the wipers for a while, because the problem is probably something else, like fog. But if things do get better, then watch for it to get blurry again, and wipe when it does.

It seems like it should be a lot easier than, e.g., visually telling the difference between a shadow and an obstacle.


----------



## francoisp

DocScott said:


> It worked great for me the other night in pouring rain. Then, during the day today, there was a misty rain with a lot of road spray, and it barely worked at all, forcing me to use repeated manual activations.
> 
> I don't quite understand why this is so hard. It seems like it should be pretty easy to train a neural net to identify "blurry." If it detects blurry vision, it should then try the wipers, and if things don't get less blurry, then suppress the wipers for a while, because the problem is probably something else, like fog. But if things do get better, then watch for it to get blurry again, and wipe when it does.
> 
> It seems like it should be a lot easier than, e.g., visually telling the difference between a shadow and an obstacle.


One person's confort level is another person's discomfort. I'm not sure Tesla can get it right for everybody with an AI, unless the AI can be trained by each individual driver. In the mean time, I think Tesla should add a slider so that we can choose how much rain we can live with between swipes.


----------



## garsh

If you find that the automatic wipers aren't wiping enough, PLEASE try putting a hydrophobic coating on your windshield (ex - Rainex). It makes a WORLD of difference - much more so than wiping more often.


----------



## gary in NY

FrancoisP said:


> One person's confort level is another person's discomfort. I'm not sure Tesla can get it right for everybody with an AI, unless the AI can be trained by each individual driver. In the mean time, I think Tesla should add a slider so that we can choose how much rain we can live with between swipes.


Yes, I agree. I'll add that I really gave the wipers a chance to work, and was willing to drive with excess rain on the windshield. But there is a point when the view becomes so distorted that safety is an issue, particularly on the narrow, curvy two lane roads I was driving. The lights of oncoming traffic were also making this unsafe. So I had to switch over to manual.


----------



## Mesprit87

Nautilus said:


> Interesting. We had pretty constant rain Saturday of varying degrees of intensity, from sprinkling to monsoon. I took the opportunity to try out the auto wipers again and they actually worked pretty well for me throughout the different conditions, including driving behind other cars and getting hit with all their road spray.


Try driving at 30 mph in drizzle with auto on and come back to me :-/ I had people in my car yesterday asking me if my wipers were actually automatic. 


ibgeek said:


> Hang in there guys, there are big changes to the wipers coming this year.


Mind to share your source?


garsh said:


> If you find that the automatic wipers aren't wiping enough, PLEASE try putting a hydrophobic coating on your windshield (ex - Rainex). It makes a WORLD of difference - much more so than wiping more often.


Hydrophobic coating won't get you covered at slow speed but I agree for highway speeds, then you might not even need wipers


----------



## garsh

Mesprit87 said:


> Hydrophobic coating won't get you covered at slow speed but I agree for highway speeds, then you might not even need wipers


I disagree. At low speeds, the water beads up a lot, making it much easier to see even without wipers. When the beads get too large, they eventually fall down.


----------



## gary in NY

The continuing auto wiper saga...

What's really funny is that after the auto wipers pooped out on the highway, they went nuts (wiping at high speed) for about 30 seconds after I pulled into the garage until I manually shut them off.

A side note: My sister-in-law says she never has any problem with the auto wipers on her 2016 MB E350. (always like to rub it in on the differences between the two cars)


----------



## iChris93

gary in NY said:


> they went nuts (wiping at high speed) for about 30 seconds after I pulled into the garage until I manually shut them off.


Mine did that this morning when I was pulling out of the garage.


----------



## slasher016

I thought the wipers used to suck and now I find them really good...wonder what the variance is. I also tend to be a late wiper (no toilet jokes please!) so maybe it's my personal preference.


----------



## gary in NY

slasher016 said:


> I thought the wipers used to suck and now I find them really good...wonder what the variance is. I also tend to be a late wiper (no toilet jokes please!) so maybe it's my personal preference.


Haha. Yeah, I wonder what the difference is.

Tesla knows this is a problem, as Musk said they are working on "Deep Rain". I have high hopes they will figure it out. I think it has improved in V10, but is still short of "acceptable" in my experience. Running them on manual is not the end of the world, and is how every other vehicle I've owned has worked. Remember the days before intermittent wipers?


----------



## MelindaV

Mesprit87 said:


> Hydrophobic coating won't get you covered at slow speed but I agree for highway speeds, then you might not even need wipers


the coating makes a huge difference even when standing still. the difference is you can see thru any water instead of it blurring the glass. try it.


----------



## travis1906

Definitely concur on Rainex. Makes world of difference. Doesn’t matter what speed. Can see the road fine almost no matter how hard it’s raining without the wipers even. I use the spray on every time I wash my car. Wipe down the whole front windshield.


----------



## Achooo

Not sure if this has anything to do with the current software or not, but I’ve noticed that on particularly windy days, NOA lane changes are extremely skiddish. The car keeps trying but just keeps bouncing off the lane line when it is clearly safe to change over. Also, once it finally decided to make the lane change it will go half way and then swerve back into the original lane. I noticed this a couple of days ago and the again today. Just made the connection today that it was particularly windy on both days. Outside of that auto lane changes have been rock solid.


----------



## DocScott

FrancoisP said:


> One person's confort level is another person's discomfort. I'm not sure Tesla can get it right for everybody with an AI, unless the AI can be trained by each individual driver. In the mean time, I think Tesla should add a slider so that we can choose how much rain we can live with between swipes.


I agree with your statement, but my critique on this firmware does not have to do with comfort level. Sometimes it was wiping very enthusiastically when I might have even waited a bit if I was doing it manually. Sometimes it wasn't wiping at all to the point that everything was a giant blur. No comfort-level slider or individual-preference training will fix that _pair_ of behaviors, because making one better would make the other worse.


----------



## gary in NY

MelindaV said:


> the coating makes a huge difference even when standing still. the difference is you can see thru any water instead of it blurring the glass. try it.


I never tried RainX, but I believe you are right. Even so, I will probably not use it (unless Tesla is going to provide it for free). Should an owner expect to have to use this type of product to make the auto wipers acceptable, even if it is only for the short term? I will continue to give the auto wipers the first opportunity to keep the windshield clear, but should they fail, I'll switch over to the manual settings and wait for the update which improves the function. I'm pretty confident they'll get it right, after all, we are going to get our second power/performance boost soon, so how hard can it be to fix this?


----------



## Achooo

travis1906 said:


> Definitely concur on Rainex. Makes world of difference. Doesn't matter what speed. Can see the road fine almost no matter how hard it's raining without the wipers even. I use the spray on every time I wash my car. Wipe down the whole front windshield.


I may be remembering incorrectly, but doesn't the owner's manual say something about avoiding coatings like RainX? If so, anybody know why?


----------



## Mike

My ongoing work with Tesla (corporate) to make Spotify 100% reliable has come to an end, for now......

They recommend the two hour drive to the nearest SC (Lawrence Avenue Toronto) to check the audio system out.

I told them I will defer that drive for what is an obvious software meets Spotify issue until I have an actual need for service or a Ranger visit.

In a nutshell: about 20% of the time (was 50% of the time a week ago) upon entry or reentry into the car, Spotify will justget hung up with a "loading error".

I'm able to clear it via switching to streaming music and starting a streaming music song then going back to Spotify and reselecting the song that was originally playing.

During the past two weeks, Tesla has pushed software fixes to address the problem, with some success but with some side effects:

A very loud tone/pop (for about one quarter of a second) from the sound system if the car was originally entered via the drivers door whilst Spotify was queued to continue playing a song,
Sentry Mode options had changed to not operate at all three optional choices versus my setting of not operate at home (only),
Walk away lock had been surreptitiously turned off (I really wish the lock icon would be yellow if that option is off)


----------



## sduck

ibgeek said:


> Huge changes to the wipers are coming soon. Read an article a day or two ago that Elon mentioned basically a complete re-write to how the auto wipers work that is coming "soon".
> Personally, my wipers have always worked great, but I've seen plenty who are having the issues that you are having. Help is coming.





Mesprit87 said:


> Mind to share your source?


This originated in a Elon tweet I think, but it's been repeated several places since then.
https://electrek.co/2019/10/14/tesla-deep-rain-neural-net-automatic-wipers/


----------



## garsh

gary in NY said:


> Should an owner expect to have to use this type of product to make the auto wipers acceptable, even if it is only for the short term?


Don't view it as a "workaround for poor-functioning autowipers". No matter what kind of car you have, or how good the auto wiping may be, a hydrophobic coating makes it SO much easier to see out the windshield in the rain.


----------



## garsh

Achooo said:


> I may be remembering incorrectly, but doesn't the owner's manual say something about avoiding coatings like RainX? If so, anybody know why?


The owners manual says to not use windshield wiper fluid that contains additives like Rain-X. Some people who have used that stuff on other cars have complained about it clogging up the washer fluid lines, but I believe the manual says something about causing wiper chatter.

I've had no issues with wiper chatter.


----------



## Needsdecaf

garsh said:


> Don't view it as a "workaround for poor-functioning autowipers". No matter what kind of car you have, or how good the auto wiping may be, a hydrophobic coating makes it SO much easier to see out the windshield in the rain.


I don't use a specific glass coating, but when I dry my car, my last step is to apply P&S Beadmaker as a topper / refresh for the ceramic coating. I originally just put it on the paint but after seeing it done on the whole car, I now apply it on all the glass as well and it has done great. Improved wiper performance tremendously.


----------



## Needsdecaf

DocScott said:


> It worked great for me the other night in pouring rain. Then, during the day today, there was a misty rain with a lot of road spray, and it barely worked at all, forcing me to use repeated manual activations.
> 
> I don't quite understand why this is so hard. It seems like it should be pretty easy to train a neural net to identify "blurry." If it detects blurry vision, it should then try the wipers, and if things don't get less blurry, then suppress the wipers for a while, because the problem is probably something else, like fog. But if things do get better, then watch for it to get blurry again, and wipe when it does.
> 
> It seems like it should be a lot easier than, e.g., visually telling the difference between a shadow and an obstacle.


Most auto wipers have a hard time in mist / light rain. The workaround usually is a "sensitivity" switch. My old Volvo had it, my Lexus had it, and my current Porsche has it. It's useful for adjusting to the "mist". I wish that Tesla had this as well.

Normally in Houston, we just get hard rain, so the sensitivity is in its lowest level, otherwise it puts the wipers into high speed too soon. But if we get a mist or light rain, it won't wipe often enough and i'll have to turn the sensitivity to 3 / 5 to get it to be satisfactory.

So not just the Tesla system. I've found that my irritation at the auto wipers has now died down to about the same irritation level as any other auto wiper system. LOL.


----------



## Reliev

garsh said:


> If you find that the automatic wipers aren't wiping enough, PLEASE try putting a hydrophobic coating on your windshield (ex - Rainex). It makes a WORLD of difference - much more so than wiping more often.


I used the Adams glass care ever since the fogging I avoid the front camera 2 drops are amazing!


----------



## M3OC Rules

garsh said:


> The owners manual says to not use windshield wiper fluid that contains additives like Rain-X. Some people who have used that stuff on other cars have complained about it clogging up the washer fluid lines, but I believe the manual says something about causing wiper chatter.
> 
> I've had no issues with wiper chatter.


I have a coating and had problems with chatter. I do not have any issues with chatter anymore and haven't for quite a while. I think firmware changes have fixed that but my coating is also wearing off so it's hard for me to know for sure.


----------



## bwilson4web

Better than RainX are the hydrophobic, polymer coatings. They last at least a year and provide an air-seal against a windshield crack. By keeping air and water away from the crack, the crack grows much, much slower providing more time to schedule a replacement or if gutsy, a glass repair (not recommended.)

Bob Wilson


----------



## MelindaV

gary in NY said:


> Should an owner expect to have to use this type of product to make the auto wipers acceptable, even if it is only for the short term?


I've used windsheild coatings long before having a car with auto wipers. Never blamed the manufacturer for the glass blurring when wet without the coating.

that said, in over a year, the only issue Ive had with my auto wipers is them swiping too often. never have had a problem with them not wiping or not wiping frequently enough for my liking.


----------



## ibgeek

Mesprit87 said:


> Mind to share your source?


Google: "tesla deep rain"


----------



## gary in NY

Achooo said:


> I may be remembering incorrectly, but doesn't the owner's manual say something about avoiding coatings like RainX? If so, anybody know why?


Under Cleaning the Exterior, page 145: Caution: Do not use windshield treatment fluids. Doing so can interfere with wiper friction and cause a chattering sound.

So, yes it does, but it seems to be more of a warning that this could adversely affect your driving experience, so it is not recommended.


----------



## MelindaV

gary in NY said:


> Under Cleaning the Exterior, page 145: Caution: Do not use windshield treatment fluids. Doing so can interfere with wiper friction and cause a chattering sound.
> 
> So, yes it does, but it seems to be more of a warning that this could adversely affect your driving experience, so it is not recommended.


that is speaking of the wiper fluid with the additives - not using the coating on the glass itself.


----------



## gary in NY

MelindaV said:


> that is speaking of the wiper fluid with the additives - not using the coating on the glass itself.


They do address those wiper fluids in the section titled "Wiper Blades and Washer Jets", page 148:

Checking and Cleaning Wiper Blades
Periodically clean the edge of the wiper blades and check the rubber for cracks, splits, and roughness. If damaged, replace the blade immediately to prevent damage to the glass.
Contaminants on the windshield, or on the wiper blades, can reduce the effectiveness of the wipers. Contaminants include ice, wax spray from car washes, washer fluid with bug and/or water repellent, bird droppings, tree sap, and other organic substances.

I'm not so sure the first reference is addressing wiper fluid, since they do that here, but window treatments, which would include Rain-X and the others discussed.

Anyway, we are all going to do our own thing regardless, so long as we are happy with the results.


----------



## JeanDeBarraux

DocScott said:


> I don't quite understand why this is so hard. It seems like it should be pretty easy to train a neural net to identify "blurry." If it detects blurry vision, it should then try the wipers, and if things don't get less blurry, then suppress the wipers for a while, because the problem is probably something else, like fog. But if things do get better, then watch for it to get blurry again, and wipe when it does.


Keep in mind that the AI doesn't see the same thing you do. Blurry vision to you might not be to the camera that's stuck to the windshield... That being said, I think Tesla needs to figure out a way to make this work better. It wipes systematically every time I go through tunnels (probably due to the alternating flashes of light) and there's a lot of them around where I live (in the Alps). Intermittent wipers should have a finer degree of manual control.


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## Chris350

I have to say that after a 1200 mile trip this last weekend in Hot/Cold/Sunny/Rainy weather, this is the worst version on NOA or Wiper functionality that I have experienced in a long time.

Constantly having to activate the wipers and the NOA was horrible....

NOA -
Was taking a full 7 clicks (about 7 seconds) to change lanes / Making constantly lane changes with zero traffic for no reason / Missing exits / constantly confused when the highway would extend to 3 lanes from 2 / When changing lanes, it wasn't smooth. it would kind of jerk over and then jerk back in to the lane. / Make 2 or 3 attempts to move over in a lane when there was no obstacle / etc.

Normally on past versions, the auto lane change would change at around 5 clicks (5 seconds) or less...

It got so bad, that I had to shut it off because it was scaring the crap out of my passengers...


Really miss the last version which for me was very fast and really smooth.

I have reboot (both 2 button method and complete shutdown) but neither corrected the bad behavior.


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## sduck

NOA hasn't been usable for me, yet. I always give it a try on road trips, but always end up switching it off after the first few blunders. It is marginably better than it was originally, but not good enough for prime time. I would never consider using it with passengers present in its current state.


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## francoisp

garsh said:


> If you find that the automatic wipers aren't wiping enough, PLEASE try putting a hydrophobic coating on your windshield (ex - Rainex). It makes a WORLD of difference - much more so than wiping more often.


I'm glad Rainex works for some people however we should not have to rely on Rainex to have proper visibility when driving in the rain. What we need is a new slider for rain sensitivity with an Auto option, the Auto option being the current situation. Those for whom the Auto works could choose that option; the others could select their desired rain sensitivity. Once Tesla gets it right, we can all switch to Auto.


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## ibgeek

sduck said:


> NOA hasn't been usable for me, yet. I always give it a try on road trips, but always end up switching it off after the first few blunders. It is marginally better than it was originally, but not good enough for prime time. I would never consider using it with passengers present in its current state.


That has to be due to your location because I've traveled all over California, Nevada and Oregon in mine with a car full of people using NOA 90% of the time and we wouldn't have it any other way.

Again I'm not trying to say you are wrong. Just saying that with the exception of a day or two after V10 was installed as my car calibrated, I've not had any issues. Those were a rough couple days though that had me worried.
I know better now though. After an update, I drive around for a couple days before I let the car drive for me.


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## DocScott

Today, in light rain, the auto wipers worked pretty well both during the day and at night. It's a little mystifying.


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## MelindaV

DocScott said:


> Today, in light rain, the auto wipers worked pretty well both during the day and at night. It's a little mystifying.


or "m_i_stifying"?


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## sduck

ibgeek said:


> That has to be due to your location because I've traveled all over California, Nevada and Oregon in mine with a car full of people using NOA 90% of the time and we wouldn't have it any other way.
> 
> Again I'm not trying to say you are wrong. Just saying that with the exception of a day or two after V10 was installed as my car calibrated, I've not had any issues. Those were a rough couple days though that had me worried.
> I know better now though. After an update, I drive around for a couple days before I let the car drive for me.


Oh definitely. I've done several long road trips, and have found that NOA is generally pretty well behaved in some places, and gets particularly unruly in others. A big chunk of the area around NYC for instance - you'll get killed if you have to wait for the car to decide it's ok to change lanes. It's just faster and safer to do it yourself.


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## Mike

......and Spotify is still not spooling up correctly when I first wake up the car for the first drive of the day.

And I noticed my Sentry Mode was not automatically activating so I rechecked the Sentry Mode options; all looked correct and "on" from a setting standpoint.

I had to turn Sentry Mode off and then back on again for it to actually activate.


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## JeanDeBarraux

Chris350 said:


> I have to say that after a 1200 mile trip this last weekend in Hot/Cold/Sunny/Rainy weather, this is the worst version on NOA or Wiper functionality that I have experienced in a long time.
> NOA -
> Was taking a full 7 clicks (about 7 seconds) to change lanes / Making constantly lane changes with zero traffic for no reason / Missing exits / constantly confused when the highway would extend to 3 lanes from 2 / When changing lanes, it wasn't smooth. it would kind of jerk over and then jerk back in to the lane. / Make 2 or 3 attempts to move over in a lane when there was no obstacle / etc.
> 
> Normally on past versions, the auto lane change would change at around 5 clicks (5 seconds) or less...
> 
> It got so bad, that I had to shut it off because it was scaring the crap out of my passengers...


Consider yourself lucky. Lane changes in my M3P takes, and have always taken, 9-12 clicks, when it doesn't abort half-way through a lane change 20% of the time... I can't use NOA or even AP when I have passengers in the car. The frequent forced lane changes are quite unsettling to passengers.


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## Needsdecaf

JeanDeBarraux said:


> Consider yourself lucky. Lane changes in my M3P takes, and have always taken, 9-12 clicks, when it doesn't abort half-way through a lane change 20% of the time... I can't use NOA or even AP when I have passengers in the car. The frequent forced lane changes are quite unsettling to passengers.


Mine used to take that long but have got significantly better with HW 10. ARe you on that now?


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## @gravityrydr

I have noticed AP in this version is much worse in weather. AP not available in light rain and snow where in previous versions I have not had issues. I have always had issues where if I am following someone and there is a lot of spray AP will give up then become available again when I am driving in the clear.


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## MelindaV

JeanDeBarraux said:


> Consider yourself lucky. Lane changes in my M3P takes, and have always taken, 9-12 clicks, when it doesn't abort half-way through a lane change 20% of the time... I can't use NOA or even AP when I have passengers in the car. The frequent forced lane changes are quite unsettling to passengers.





Needsdecaf said:


> Mine used to take that long but have got significantly better with HW 10. ARe you on that now?


it often times depends on the area you are in, so you can not assume how it functions on one highway is identical to how it is elsewhere 2 hours away, in another state, across the globe.


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## Chris350

I also noticed during this long trip that the NOA doesn't see construction zones any longer...

I used to get a notification pop-up when it detected cones or barricades...


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## Needsdecaf

MelindaV said:


> it often times depends on the area you are in, so you can not assume how it functions on one highway is identical to how it is elsewhere 2 hours away, in another state, across the globe.


I understand that. I merely noted that I had seen an improvement with my car on version 10, under the same circumstances I drive every day. It would not be out of line to wonder if the poster had seen a relative improvement as well, no?


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## iChris93

Yesterday I started a drive and noticed the passenger mirror did not unfold. I folded and unfolded them again from the menu and it unfolded properly. It was not quite freezing conditions so there was no ice locking it into place.


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## Needsdecaf

iChris93 said:


> Yesterday I started a drive and noticed the passenger mirror did not unfold. I folded and unfolded them again from the menu and it unfolded properly. It was not quite freezing conditions so there was no ice locking it into place.


I had the same thing happen earlier in the week. It was cold (for Houston!) at about 50, but certainly nothing to do with ice. Both of them failed to unfold properly. Unfortunately I didn't notice until I was driving on the road, and had no opportunity to stop and fold / unfold. When I got to my destination I did just that and everything was fine.


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## iChris93

Needsdecaf said:


> Unfortunately I didn't notice until I was driving on the road, and had no opportunity to stop and fold / unfold.


I was able to fold/unfold while driving. There may be a speed limit to it.


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## DocScott

@gravityrydr said:


> I have noticed AP in this version is much worse in weather. AP not available in light rain and snow where in previous versions I have not had issues. I have always had issues where if I am following someone and there is a lot of spray AP will give up then become available again when I am driving in the clear.


Weirdly, I take that as a sign of progress.

If AP is noticing weather more, then that's a step toward it (and NOA) being able to operate safely under those conditions, by, e.g., slowing down a bit more around turns, leaving a greater following distance behind the car in front, etc..


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## ibgeek

DocScott said:


> Weirdly, I take that as a sign of progress.
> 
> If AP is noticing weather more, then that's a step toward it (and NOA) being able to operate safely under those conditions, by, e.g., slowing down a bit more around turns, leaving a greater following distance behind the car in front, etc..


When Deep Rain is introduced in a not too distant update, it will drastically improve wipers as well as add weather related speed control to AP. (Per Elon conversation, Teslarati and in his twitter feed)


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## Needsdecaf

iChris93 said:


> I was able to fold/unfold while driving. There may be a speed limit to it.


Could very well be. I was on the highway and frontage road and was going at least 60 most of the time.


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## iChris93

iChris93 said:


> Yesterday I started a drive and noticed the passenger mirror did not unfold. I folded and unfolded them again from the menu and it unfolded properly. It was not quite freezing conditions so there was no ice locking it into place.





Needsdecaf said:


> I had the same thing happen earlier in the week. It was cold (for Houston!) at about 50, but certainly nothing to do with ice. Both of them failed to unfold properly. Unfortunately I didn't notice until I was driving on the road, and had no opportunity to stop and fold / unfold. When I got to my destination I did just that and everything was fine.


This afternoon it happened to my driver's side mirror.


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## Kizzy

slasher016 said:


> I thought the wipers used to suck and now I find them really good...wonder what the variance is. I also tend to be a late wiper (no toilet jokes please!) so maybe it's my personal preference.


My autowipers work great in urban settings and have only recently become decent in my more rural setting. I think it's down to differences in environment and weather. Tesla needs to teach the neural net how to identify precipitation in different forms under different conditions.


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## MelindaV

Kizzy said:


> My autowipers work great in urban settings and have only recently become decent in my more rural setting. I think it's down to differences in environment and weather. Tesla needs to teach the neural net how to identify precipitation in different forms under different conditions.


and maybe teach it that vary rarely will it ever be raining inside my garage


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## Reliev

Chris350 said:


> I also noticed during this long trip that the NOA doesn't see construction zones any longer...
> 
> I used to get a notification pop-up when it detected cones or barricades...


looks like they added it to a recent update or soon to be.
https://electrek.co/2019/11/03/tesla-driving-visualization-detect-traffic-cones/


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## PaulK

LR, RWD. My equivalent 100% range has been 318-321miles for many months since the “325” increase. 

Immediately after this update my equiv 100% range is exactly 310 miles. Tried 70, 80 and yesterday charged from 10% to 90% (resulted in 279miles - equiv. To 310 at 100%).

I’m not worried but am curious if anyone else sees their 325 “bump” rolled back to 310.


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## Reliev

PaulK said:


> LR, RWD. My equivalent 100% range has been 318-321miles for many months since the "325" increase.
> 
> Immediately after this update my equiv 100% range is exactly 310 miles. Tried 70, 80 and yesterday charged from 10% to 90% (resulted in 279miles - equiv. To 310 at 100%).
> 
> I'm not worried but am curious if anyone else sees their 325 "bump" rolled back to 310.


mine did its 318-319 at best but I also read I think from tesla Bjorn that the reserve went up in v10 he made a whole video about it I think he said 1.5% (I'm trying to remember)


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## sduck

PaulK said:


> LR, RWD. My equivalent 100% range has been 318-321miles for many months since the "325" increase.
> 
> Immediately after this update my equiv 100% range is exactly 310 miles. Tried 70, 80 and yesterday charged from 10% to 90% (resulted in 279miles - equiv. To 310 at 100%).
> 
> I'm not worried but am curious if anyone else sees their 325 "bump" rolled back to 310.


Mine dropped back down to below 310 way back in April (after kicking up to 325 briefly in March), but has ramped back up (slowly) to about 316 since 28.3.1. And has stayed there pretty consistently throughout these recent updates.


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## PaulK

sduck said:


> Mine dropped back down to below 310 way back in April (after kicking up to 325 briefly in March), but has ramped back up (slowly) to about 316 since 28.3.1. And has stayed there pretty consistently throughout these recent updates.


Thanks, interesting. Maybe it's a fluke but seems to be an awful coincidence that precisely after v10 I get *exactly *310 mile equivalent range over the 3 charging sessions (70, 80 and 10-90%). I've seen plenty of evidence that after certain updates, some people have an (often temporary) change in range so I'm actually not concerned but feel like the "patch" for "325 mile range" (which for me, like most, was actually about 318) was removed at this update.


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## slotti

I had around 315 briefly before v10, but am back down to 307. 25k miles on the car. LR RWD.


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## TesLou

slotti said:


> I had around 315 briefly before v10, but am back down to 307. 25k miles on the car. LR RWD.


I'm also 307 [email protected]%. I've got 56k miles on the clock. I can also confirm construction cones are not rendered on my HW2.5 screen. I tested it this morning with orange barrels, small cones, large skinny cones, and nothing popped onto the screen.


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## TesLou

MelindaV said:


> it often times depends on the area you are in, so you can not assume how it functions on one highway is identical to how it is elsewhere 2 hours away, in another state, across the globe.


I've found that sun angles, and the resulting shadows the car casts, seem to play games with the car's brain and aborts some of my lane change attempts.


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## MelindaV

now that it the fog is back in the morning, this release is the first in the last year (or at least when foggy), where the headlights, and in turn the fog lights, stay on in the fog in daylight! at least thru the early 2019.32.x releases (32.2 likely), the lights were still turning off in daylight fog.

the last two mornings it has been foggy, and I didnt have to manually turn the lights back on


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## JeanDeBarraux

Needsdecaf said:


> Mine used to take that long but have got significantly better with HW 10. ARe you on that now?


Not sure about HW 10 but I'm on v10 2019.32.12.2. I think I'm on HW 2.5 as I was one of the first deliveries in Europe (I don't think HW3 was available at that point). As MelindaV pointed out, I suspect this is more related to the fact that I drive in France (and a bit in Switzerland and Italy) than anything else. I would like to hear if other Europeans see the same limitations...



Needsdecaf said:


> I understand that. I merely noted that I had seen an improvement with my car on version 10, under the same circumstances I drive every day. It would not be out of line to wonder if the poster had seen a relative improvement as well, no?


Unfortunately, I haven't seen any such improvement since auto lane change was introduced.


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## DocScott

Charged up full for a trip today: 320 miles on 32.12.2. I have a LR RWD with 8500 miles from early October 2018. I have hit 325 a couple of times in the past, but 320 could just be ordinary degradation.

It's weird that people have had such different experiences with ranges changing with firmware updates. Is it possible that there are additional limits that a firmware applies as a battery degrades, or something like that? So maybe when I degrade to 319 my range will suddenly drop to 310? Just speculating, because otherwise I don't have a good explanation for the discrepancies...


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## ibgeek

DocScott said:


> Charged up full for a trip today: 320 miles on 32.12.2. I have a LR RWD with 8500 miles from early October 2018. I have hit 325 a couple of times in the past, but 320 could just be ordinary degradation.
> 
> It's weird that people have had such different experiences with ranges changing with firmware updates. Is it possible that there are additional limits that a firmware applies as a battery degrades, or something like that? So maybe when I degrade to 319 my range will suddenly drop to 310? Just speculating, because otherwise I don't have a good explanation for the discrepancies...


Some of it is degradation, some of it is software tweaking. The 100% charge numbers are approximate. That part is something that Tesla is still tweaking. Mileage numbers get more accurate as you get get closer to zero because variables like temperature, driving speed and such are factored in. Tesla actually wants people to move away from miles left in favor of percentage left as that will always be accurate. This would be more inline with what an ICE car's gas gauge shows, but range anxiety pushes us to want more exact info.


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## StromTrooperM3

Has anyone seen any issues with the calendar sync on this version? Let me dive into the details.

I have a personal Gmail and I have my work GSuite account. My GSuite work calendar is shared to my Personal Google account so I can easily see both.

In the car my personal appointments come up fine, however anything that's on my GSuite work calendar show up in duplicate.

No where on my phone or computer do the appointments show up in duplicate, only when they are synced with the car.

It seems to be this release but I'm not sure when it started happening as I've just started to use the in car calendar more. Wishful thinking it will be fixed in .36 just wondering if I'm the only one


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## Kizzy

StromTrooperM3 said:


> Has anyone seen any issues with the calendar sync on this version? Let me dive into the details.
> 
> I have a personal Gmail and I have my work GSuite account. My GSuite work calendar is shared to my Personal Google account so I can easily see both.
> 
> In the car my personal appointments come up fine, however anything that's on my GSuite work calendar show up in duplicate.
> 
> No where on my phone or computer do the appointments show up in duplicate, only when they are synced with the car.
> 
> It seems to be this release but I'm not sure when it started happening as I've just started to use the in car calendar more. Wishful thinking it will be fixed in .36 just wondering if I'm the only one


I don't think I've seen this, but have you tried disabling your work account calendar in the car and seeing if those appointments are staying from your personal account?


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## StromTrooperM3

Kizzy said:


> have you tried disabling your work account calendar


Yes I've tried from the upper right menu to turn each oFf, then back on one by one. When I turn the work calendar on it comes back with double entries. Hopefully it's resolved in .36 and I just didn't see any mention of this in the threads


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