# Sticky  Tesla Owners Online videos



## TrevP

Hi folks. Wow, my video about the Model 3 details has taken on a life of it's own and I didn't expect that. I guess that's the power of social media 

Let me know if you have any ideas of what I can cover in terms of questions and I'll do my best to answer them for you in a burst of short video blogs.

Thanks
Trev


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## Mark Collins

Trev, Where is the link to the original video? Thanks...


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## Skione65

TrevP,

Tesla Model 3 "Spotted in the Wild"
A few Great High Res Photos behind a Model S for Size Comparisons as well as a Model 3 rolling behind the Model S in the accompanying Video.
LOVE this car.

http://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-spotted-in-the-wild-images-video/

Ski


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## TrevP

Mark Collins said:


> Trev, Where is the link to the original video? Thanks...


Here's the video. If you subscribe to my YouTube channel you'll be notified of more videos. I'm working on a couple more right now.


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## Model 3 lover

TrevP said:


> Hi folks. Wow, my video about the Model 3 details has taken on a life of it's own and I didn't expect that. I guess that's the power of social media
> 
> Let me know if you have any ideas of what I can cover in terms of questions and I'll do my best to answer them for you in a burst of short video blogs.
> 
> Thanks
> Trev


Thank you for this hidden details video. This is how I found this Club. Thank you again doing this for us.


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## TrevP

Model 3 lover said:


> Thank you for this hidden details video. This is how I found this Club. Thank you again doing this for us.


You're more than welcome. It's my way of contributing to the community and educating people to the advantages of EVs. More videos coming soon


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## TrevP

*Model 3 details video blog, part Deux is up !! Watch for our battery details video coming soon...*


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## carpozed

TrevP said:


> Model 3 details video blog, part Deux is up !! Watch for our battery details video coming soon...


Thank you TrevP very informative. I'm thinking UK deliveries won't be until late 2018 so plenty of time to save, but who knows.


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## Model 3 lover

TrevP said:


> Model 3 details video blog, part Deux is up !! Watch for our battery details video coming soon...


Thank you for all detail information.


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## EV3Tim

Very helpful videos, Trev, thank you! How do we find your YouTube channel (to subscribe)?

Also, any advice welcome on how best to configure 240V recharging plug in garage. Am getting power put into garage (separate from house) shortly to power new garage doors and want to include set up for our 3/31 reserved M3. (Planning ahead).


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## TrevP

My channel is here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCry4jW5bcj9DIs7ZwA95Ylw

Next episode will be up Friday morning. It's all about the battery, not going to want to miss it!


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## TrevP

EV3Tim said:


> Very helpful videos, Trev, thank you! How do we find your YouTube channel (to subscribe)?
> 
> Also, any advice welcome on how best to configure 240V recharging plug in garage. Am getting power put into garage (separate from house) shortly to power new garage doors and want to include set up for our 3/31 reserved M3. (Planning ahead).


Best recommendation is to get at least a NEMA14-50 plug installed. That's 240Volt @ 50AMPs. This way you can use the mobile connector that comes with the car and get level 2 charging. If you opt for Tesla's HPWC (High powered wall connector) which is hard-wired you can keep the mobile connector in the car. The HPWC has the ability to accept 80AMs which is useful for cars with dual chargers like Model S (optional) or a Model X with the optional 72 AMP charger. We don't know what Model 3 will come with but it will be level 2 capable at the very least.

I would suspect they would offer the same single 72AMP charger option as Model X since it's cheaper than the older dual charger system on the Model S. Progress is a wonderful thing


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## EV3Tim

TrevP said:


> Best recommendation is to get at least a NEMA14-50 plug installed. That's 240Volt @ 50AMPs. This way you can use the mobile connector that comes with the car and get level 2 charging. If you opt for Tesla's HPWC (High powered wall connector) which is hard-wired you can keep the mobile connector in the car. The HPWC has the ability to accept 80AMs which is useful for cars with dual chargers like Model S (optional) or a Model X with the optional 72 AMP charger. We don't know what Model 3 will come with but it will be level 2 capable at the very least.
> 
> I would suspect they would offer the same single 72AMP charger option as Model X since it's cheaper than the older dual charger system on the Model S. Progress is a wonderful thing


Thank you very much, Trev! Very helpful!


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## Van Shrider

TrevP said:


> My channel is here:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCry4jW5bcj9DIs7ZwA95Ylw
> 
> Next episode will be up Friday morning. It's all about the battery, not going to want to miss it!


Thanks for the wealth of information and history lesson, it really helps in understanding what went on historically and why verses what could happen with 3.


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## TrevP

Van Shrider said:


> Thanks for the wealth of information and history lesson, it really helps in understanding what went on historically and why verses what could happen with 3.


Like many other companies, Tesla is a creature of habit. If you know their history is helps with predicting what they will do in the future to a certain extent. I have a few other videos of Tesla officials in the Tesla Officials video thread here

http://teslaownersonline.com/threads/tesla-officials-founders-investors-video.14/

Anyone interested in Tesla history should watch them.


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## jetwet1

A big thank you for taking the time and effort to produce these videos and set up the site, great job sir.


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## John Garton

EV3Tim said:


> Very helpful videos, Trev, thank you! How do we find your YouTube channel (to subscribe)?
> 
> Also, any advice welcome on how best to configure 240V recharging plug in garage. Am getting power put into garage (separate from house) shortly to power new garage doors and want to include set up for our 3/31 reserved M3. (Planning ahead).


Per speaking to my electrician here in CA, it is fairly simple via changing breaker at the panel and installing the plug at wall. NEMA 14-50 is recommended and electrician is very familiar with that.


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## TrevP

You can edit your post instead of posting a correction. If you're on a phone tap the "more" link at the bottom to see the edit link.


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## John Garton

TrevP said:


> You can edit your post instead of posting a correction. If you're on a phone tap the "more" link at the bottom to see the edit link.


Done, u da man!


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## EV3Tim

John Garton said:


> Per speaking to my electrician here in CA, it is fairly simple via changing breaker at the panel and installing the plug at wall. NEMA 14-50 is recommended and electrician is very familiar wit that.


Thank you, John! A Tesla-certified electrician stopped by yesterday to prep for a free quote and said much the same thing.


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## gsr2k

EV3Tim said:


> Thank you, John! A Tesla-certified electrician stopped by yesterday to prep for a free quote and said much the same thing.


How do you get in contact with a Tesla-certified electrician? Is there a support hotline on the Tesla website to setup an appointment?


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## EV3Tim

gsr2k said:


> How do you get in contact with a Tesla-certified electrician? Is there a support hotline on the Tesla website to setup an appointment?


Look here on the Support page of Tesla's company site:
https://www.teslamotors.com/support/find-electrician


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## gsr2k

EV3Tim said:


> Look here on the Support page of Tesla's company site:
> https://www.teslamotors.com/support/find-electrician


Thank you!


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## Niklas

Good explaning hows The dual motors version is more efficient!


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## TrevP

*Inside the Tesla Battery is now live !!*


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## LUXMAN

Great info! Thank you. Do you think they will be using the 26650 then in the M3? And do you think they will be made in the Gigafactory by then?


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## TE3LA

TrevP said:


> *Inside the Tesla Battery is now live !!*


Excellent intro, but I think the cat was upset not to be a part of the rest of the video! ;-)

All kidding aside, thanks for the great information!


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## teslaliving

Pretty much any electrician can install a 14-50 outlet in your garage. They have a good installation guide here:
https://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/downloads/US/universalmobileconnector_nema_14-50.pdf

I just emailed that to my electrician.

The costs/complexity depend on your garage, panels, service etc. I got lucky in that I had an unused 50A panel in my garage (prior owner had it for something) that I just had to convert/update.


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## EV3Tim

TrevP said:


> Best recommendation is to get at least a NEMA14-50 plug installed. That's 240Volt @ 50AMPs. This way you can use the mobile connector that comes with the car and get level 2 charging. If you opt for Tesla's HPWC (High powered wall connector) which is hard-wired you can keep the mobile connector in the car. The HPWC has the ability to accept 80AMs which is useful for cars with dual chargers like Model S (optional) or a Model X with the optional 72 AMP charger. We don't know what Model 3 will come with but it will be level 2 capable at the very least.
> 
> I would suspect they would offer the same single 72AMP charger option as Model X since it's cheaper than the older dual charger system on the Model S. Progress is a wonderful thing


Incidentally, this is the electrician's proposal, as an example from S/W Ohio: 
"I. Install power for detached garage and Tesla charger:
* Route 90 amp power feed from BR panel in basement to exterior of home with 8' of No  2 SER power cable.  
* Mount 50' of 1 1⁄4" PVC on exterior of home, dig 40' trench from house to garage, and  install direct burial cable to new 12 space panel in garage.  
* Drive ground rod to provide grounding at garage.  
* Mount new 50 amp power plug for 240v charging.  
* Install (2) new keyless light fixtures on interior of garage with a switch near panel.  
* Mount (2) new 120v GFI protected garage door opener outlets, (1) exterior GFI  protected outlet , and (1) interior outlet.  
* Restore power, test, and provide rough backfill of trench.  
* Proposal: $2,482.00 including permits.  
Notes: We are providing 90 amps of power to garage so that there will be capacity to handle all three types of chargers that Tesla offers including the 72 amp option."


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## Van Shrider

TrevP said:


> *Inside the Tesla Battery is now live !!*


Two thumbs up TrevP 
I subscribed to your channel a while back.
Very informative and always fills in the blanks for info that we would all like to know.. Big favor next time ....please let the cat out the room first...LOL


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## TrevP

Model S get updated LED headlights but guess what? Model 3 has them too....


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## Dan Detweiler

"Hey there's my cat!"

Quote of the day. 

Dan


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## MelindaV

TrevP said:


> Model S get updated LED headlights but guess what? Model 3 has them too....


Maybe I've missed this on other modern cars, but immediately thought of the Tucker with it's headlight that moved with the steering!


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## LUXMAN

HA! I said the same thing when I told my wife that! (she's tired of talk of the M≡ already)

Now just to be clear, per the TM site, the Three-position dynamic LED turning lights are part of the Premium Upgrades Package.
So they are not standard. I am sure they will have a similar package for the M≡


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## TrevP

*Tesla Charing and more Model 3 interesting details is live!*


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## LUXMAN

TrevP said:


> *Tesla Charing and more Model 3 interesting details is live!*


So with the new 72 amp charger in the S and X, that should provide 15.8kw charging. That is smokin' compared to my Leaf at 6.6kw. 
As I think about this I am at a Chademo and it started pushing 49kw. Was wondering what the superchargers put out? Does anybody know that answer?


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## Ken Hixson

The key to the Superchargers is they use DC direct, not AC so they charge much, much faster. It would also imply to me they bypass the charger in the car. The Tesla comment in the charger upgrade "Charge rates when connected to . . . Tesla Superchargers will be unaffected" . . . so if you will only use Superchargers for long distance you really don't need this upgrade as home charging should be every night and therefore in almost all cases only an overnight top off needed.


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## LUXMAN

Oh yes. I was just trying to make the comparison. The S is like 2.5x faster on AC than my Leaf if you are at full capacity. And Chademo seems to max at close to 50kw direct to the battery. (I have an app that measures the inputs). Just curious how much faster the SC are vs the Chademo.


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## MelindaV

based on the Model S, the superchargers are listed at 170 miles per 30 minutes compared to 29 miles per _60_ minutes on a 50A 240V outlet. Not sure how the Chademo compares, but the SC is nearly 10x as fast as the 240V outlet.


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## Van Shrider

TrevP said:


> *Tesla Charing and more Model 3 interesting details is live!*


TrevP Thanks for all that you do for us with the videos and forums work.
You're becoming famous on YouTube and EV e-mags and tweets.
You'll probably get an invite for Reveal 2.


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## LUXMAN

MelindaV said:


> based on the Model S, the superchargers are listed at 170 miles per 30 minutes compared to 29 miles per _60_ minutes on a 50A 240V outlet. Not sure how the Chademo compares, but the SC is nearly 10x as fast as the 240V outlet.


OK, so using some 300W/mi that the S can get. 340mi/hr of charge X 300W/mi = 102kW.
So that is twice is fast as using Chademo. Not bad!


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## TrevP

Van Shrider said:


> TrevP Thanks for all that you do for us with the videos and forums work.
> You're becoming famous on YouTube and EV e-mags and tweets.
> You'll probably get an invite for Reveal 2.


You're most welcome. I have more videos planned, I just need to sit down and get to them. I also have something else pretty special for everyone but I can't reveal it for a couple of weeks


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## Model 3 lover

TrevP said:


> You're most welcome. I have more videos planned, I just need to sit down and get to them. I also have something else pretty special for everyone but I can't reveal it for a couple of weeks


It sounds like you are going to reveal "The Next Model III". Just kidding!
Your videos all are special to me. Especially, the LED headlight video one, you are like a detextile to investigate this detail. Much appreciate!


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## LUXMAN

I must also agree! Thank you for doing all this work. Additionally, what I great idea for the Model 3 store as well!


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## TrevP

I'd love to have more products in the store but the supplier is rather limited to apparel only. License plate surround and *gasp*, bumper stickers I'm sure would go over well.


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## Dan Detweiler

Bumper magnets...even better!


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## TrevP

A discussion about Tesla's quality and battery degradation https://


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## TrevP

How does the US federal EV tax credit phase out work when Tesla hits 200,000 cars sold in the US and how does is affect the Model 3?


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## TrevP

EV Rebates for Canadians detailed and explained:


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## Robert Pickel

TrevP said:


> I'd love to have more products in the store but the supplier is rather limited to apparel only. License plate surround and *gasp*, bumper stickers I'm sure would go over well.


Bumper sticker idea: "My other car is a deposit on a Tesla 3"


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## TrevP

Robert Pickel said:


> Bumper sticker idea: "My other car is a deposit on a Tesla 3"


I have something in the works... stay tuned.


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## Thalass

As far as the "tesla clause" in the Ontario incentive program goes: It's kinda fair enough. If you can afford a $100,000 car, $14,000 isn't going to help you much. And $3,000 is better than what you get in Australia: Luxury Car Tax slapped on the price, which puts a Model S up to nearly $200,000.


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## Steve

TrevP said:


> I'd love to have more products in the store but the supplier is rather limited to apparel only. License plate surround and *gasp*, bumper stickers I'm sure would go over well.


Just received my Model 3 hat. Very nice quality and it sure garners responses, (all positive). Great job Trevor, thanks.


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## TrevP

Latest Model 3 news and possible scoop??


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## TrevP

*FANTASTIC NEWS!*

Model 3 production plans! https://www.


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## Mike

Wow. I've been resigned to a 36 month wait. Maybe 24 months?

Thanks for the timely updates. Cheers.


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## MelindaV

TrevP said:


> *FANTASTIC NEWS!*
> 
> Model 3 production plans! https://www.


I may have to re-think my savings/financing plans :O


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## TrevP

I'm still hoping for mine to coincide as close as possible with my April 2018 turn-in date for the current lease... Maybe they might make it if all goes well but I'm keeping an open mind. I'll keep everyone posted of developments.


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## Skione65

The Q1 earnings call was all excellent news! Hopefully all these deadlines and timelines expressed by Elon are met....and I fully believe they will be.

I've revised my timeline to 24 months/2yrs from 3..... April-July of 2018....Excitement is ramped up unbelievably now!!! 

Ski


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## Skione65

MelindaV said:


> I may have to re-think my savings/financing plans :O


You and 400,000 others!!!! It's a great problem to have!



Ski


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## Dan Detweiler

Skione65 said:


> The Q1 earnings call was all excellent news! Hopefully all these deadlines and timelines expressed by Elon are met....and I fully believe they will be.
> 
> I've revised my timeline to 24 months/2yrs from 3..... April-July of 2018....Excitement is ramped up unbelievably now!!!
> 
> Ski


When did you reserve and where are you located? Just trying to see where I might fit in.


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## Skione65

Dan Detweiler said:


> When did you reserve and where are you located? Just trying to see where I might fit in.


Dan,

A month ago...I really have no idea where I am number wise....but I feel better thinking I'm going to get the car in 2018 than 2019.... That just sounds too far off and puts me into a state of disarray (lol). I'm the eternal Optimist!

Ski


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## TrevP

What is Tesla's Bioweapon Defense Mode? Will it come to Model 3?


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## Dan Detweiler

TrevP said:


> What is Tesla's Bioweapon Defense Mode? Will it come to Model 3?


Trevor, I have a question. On the Model X, how often do these filters need to be serviced/replaced and is that included in a normal annual service appointment?

I checked on the Teslamotors.com site under service agreements and it just said cabin air filter replacement but nothing specific to the HEPA filtration system.

Dan


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## TrevP

We have no idea yet. Not many X's on the road the Model S with the new filter is just showing up in the showrooms.


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## Dan Detweiler

TrevP said:


> We have no idea yet. Not many X's on the road the Model S with the new filter is just showing up in the showrooms.


I was just wondering if it came up in negotiations about purchasing a service agreement on an S or X.

Dan


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## TrevP

I'll ask a friend who's expecting his Model X next month and report back.


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## Dan Detweiler

TrevP said:


> I'll ask a friend who's expecting his Model X next month and report back.


Thanks Trevor!


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## MelindaV

this is the text from the 2015 Model X manual. 
Cabin Air Filter 
Model X has an air filter that prevents pollen, industrial fallout, road dust and other particles from entering through the vents. Tesla replaces the air filter at the regularly scheduled maintenance intervals of every 
12 months, or every 20,000 km. ​The manual also appears to use the phrase "cabin air filter' interchangeably with the 'HEPA filter' and does not talk about the HEPA as a separate item than the cabin air, so would be really surprised if it was not included as part of the scheduled maintenance.


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## Dan Detweiler

MelindaV said:


> this is the text from the 2015 Model X manual.
> Cabin Air Filter
> Model X has an air filter that prevents pollen, industrial fallout, road dust and other particles from entering through the vents. Tesla replaces the air filter at the regularly scheduled maintenance intervals of every
> 12 months, or every 20,000 km. ​The manual also appears to use the phrase "cabin air filter' interchangeably with the 'HEPA filter' and does not talk about the HEPA as a separate item than the cabin air, so would be really surprised if it was not included as part of the scheduled maintenance.


Awesome! Thanks for digging that up.

Dan


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## TrevP

Here's the response from Tesla via @Jgdixon on the Model X HEPA filter situation:

"The change interval and price for the hepa filter and the carbon filter are still in the works, as it will vary by vehicle usage/environment.
As soon as we have the details, we will look to post it on the service plan page. As with all our service offerings we will aim to make it as competitive as possible"


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## Dan Detweiler

TrevP said:


> Here's the response from Tesla via @Jgdixon on the Model X HEPA filter situation:
> 
> "The change interval and price for the hepa filter and the carbon filter are still in the works, as it will vary by vehicle usage/environment.
> As soon as we have the details, we will look to post it on the service plan page. As with all our service offerings we will aim to make it as competitive as possible"


Wow, seems like if that is not included in the service plan that could effect some people's willingness to shell out the money for that particular option. No idea how expensive those filters and canisters are.

Thanks again Trevor.

Dan


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## teslaliving

The regular filter is changed on the annual service schedule and within the fee schedule. No idea on the new HEPA one.


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## TrevP

Model 3 updates and a brief history of the Tesla Roadster


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## Skione65

TrevP said:


> Model 3 updates and a brief history of the Tesla Roadster


@TrevP,

Great update Trev! Really enjoyed the 'Roadster History'..... Very interesting and informative.

Thanks! 

Ski


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## TrevP

How are lithium ion cells made and how much lithium is in the cell? A lot less than you might think...


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## Mike

TrevP said:


> How are lithium ion cells made and how much lithium is in the cell? A lot less than you might think...


Great talking point for folks like my (skeptical) dad....."eight lbs in a 90 kW battery".
Thanks for the research. Cheers.


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## TrevP

You're welcome. 

The internet comments about lithium cells seemingly made of 100% baby skin (aka lithium) were driving me nuts so I had to say something and put the record straight. 

People are making it out like lithium cells were made of gold or something. Sheesh. 

I recorded this earlier this week and Elon cleared it up too at the shareholders meeting when asked the same question, nice coincidence. 

Lithium mass in the cell is less than 2% and at 45g per cell it's pretty easy to scale it up based on 7144 cells in a pack.


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## TrevP

So I decided to redo my video on Tesla battery pack. I should mention however that in the previous battery video I used a couple of images taken by a Tesla hacker, many know who he is, and I forgot to give attribution to him. He filed a copyright claim with YouTube on it which is why it was taken down (not cool). If he had contacted me first I would have fixed it immediately. I never intended to harm anyone, it just slipped through.

Anyhow, enjoy this better video with better graphics and less Nutmeg (cat)


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## ScottRacer

Great video update Trevor. 
I know Tesla just brought on the battery expert and then I saw this: http://www.gizmag.com/battery-electrode-lithium-salt-csiro-qut-rmit/43825/
It sounds like it is right along lines of what he was talking about in the video you have referenced before. Do you think Tesla is this far along already or is this taking battery degradation (or lack of) to a new level? With these kind of results a battery pack would be good for 15-20 years or more. 
Here is the long form link of the website that describes process in "long" detail. http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2016/160613/ncomms11794/full/ncomms11794.html
Thanks for the forum site and keep up great work.


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## TrevP

ScottRacer said:


> Great video update Trevor.
> I know Tesla just brought on the battery expert and then I saw this: http://www.gizmag.com/battery-electrode-lithium-salt-csiro-qut-rmit/43825/
> It sounds like it is right along lines of what he was talking about in the video you have referenced before. Do you think Tesla is this far along already or is this taking battery degradation (or lack of) to a new level? With these kind of results a battery pack would be good for 15-20 years or more.
> Here is the long form link of the website that describes process in "long" detail. http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2016/160613/ncomms11794/full/ncomms11794.html
> Thanks for the forum site and keep up great work.


No it wasn't Jeff Dahn. It's a well-known Tesla hacker who had my video flagged. A simple email to me would have fixed the problem but he just decided to be a jerk about it.

Battery degradation is real but it's not as bad or linear as people think it is. So much misinformation out there... The Tesla battery pack does indeed suffer some degradation but most of it is right at the start when it's new. Most are reposting about 2-4% loss the first year then it tapers off very slowly. Tesla expects 15 years out of their battery, give or take, at which point it should still hold about a 70% charge.

I think the public misperception about lithium battery degradation is due to their primary exposure to devices with such batteries: cell phones, which are quite small and thus show degradation signs very quickly. A 90kWh Tesla battery pack has enough energy to power an iPhone 24/7 for 36 years.... Think about that and let it sink in.


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## ScottRacer

TrevP said:


> No it wasn't Jeff Dahn. It's a well-known Tesla hacker who had my video flagged. A simple email to me would have fixed the problem but he just decided to be a jerk about it.
> 
> Battery degradation is real but it's not as bad or linear as people think it is. So much misinformation out there... The Tesla battery pack does indeed suffer some degradation but most of it is right at the start when it's new. Most are reposting about 2-4% loss the first year then it tapers off very slowly. Tesla expects 15 years out of their battery, give or take, at which point it should still hold about a 70% charge.
> 
> I think the public misperception about lithium battery degradation is due to their primary exposure to devices with such batteries: cell phones, which are quite small and thus show degradation signs very quickly. A 90kWh Tesla battery pack has enough energy to power an iPhone 24/7 for 36 years.... Think about that and let it sink in.


I agree degradation hype is over done but I was wondering if the new batteries from Tesla (20700) would have some new tech that Jeff Dahn has been studying to bring levels down even further now that he is working for Tesla?
After watching his video describing testing of batteries and different compounds and then seeing the above mentioned article, could we see the new batteries make a leap forward? Thanks


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## TrevP

Tesla's chemistry is a closely guarded secret and for good reason but I doubt there's been any significant improvements other than the usual 5 percent or so each year. 

The new 90kWh pack is purely chemistry improvements over the previous 85kWh as there's no room inside the packs to add cells. 

Model 3 is going to have a completely new cell, battery pack, inverters and Motors. The drive train is everything they've learned from the Model S but better. Many are under the impression that because Model S is a more expensive car that that is must be defacto have the most advanced technology. Tesla isn't going to hold back anything for this car. Eventually when the Model S gets a significant redesign with the drive train it will also get these improvements unless it's already in the works to happen by the time the 3 comes to market.


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## TrevP

First in a series of new videos featuring interviews with people I know about EV technology, renewable energy production.


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## TrevP

Part of the subject of our upcoming episode of the Model 3 Owners Club.... coming soon


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## Mike

TrevP said:


> First in a series of new videos featuring interviews with people I know about EV technology, renewable energy production.


Great close up look at a typical residential system.

Another data point: my system/contract is 6.2 years old. We'll have our ROI in 2.5 years (and have to start paying income tax on that income). My 5.7 kW system cost $44,000 and my contract payments are 80.2 cents per kWh. We collect and flow thru HST on cash earned from the system because I wanted to get the HST refunded to me 6.2 years ago when the system was bought. I have 6.2 years of data and last year was a "weak year", relatively speaking. I use a snow broom in the winter to clear the panels. Snow on an individual panel will have a very marked effect on the production of that one panel. I have seen that removing a one inch dusting of snow will bring the system from 20% to 99% in very short order....


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## Gman

TrevP said:


> Part of the subject of our upcoming episode of the Model 3 Owners Club.... coming soon
> 
> View attachment 478


Aside from the nice car I like that old building... Curious to know more about it. ...and the video too


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## MelindaV

Gman said:


> Aside from the nice car I like that old building... Curious to know more about it. ...and the video too


I was thinking the same thing! is that a house?


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## TrevP

MelindaV said:


> I was thinking the same thing! is that a house?


His business is located in an old 1920s-style farm house and there's an old small barn out back.


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## TrevP

How the Tesla Model X Falcon Wing Doors Work


----------



## TrevP

*August 4 2016 Model 3 Updates*


----------



## Rick59

Good video. Thanks. Building a high-efficiency factory will make more money per vehicle but the key is still to sell a kick-ass product. Not so much for us 400,000ers but for the next 400,000 when there is more competition in the marketplace.


----------



## TrevP

Kilowatt hours vs Gasoline explained. The results may surprise you.


----------



## TrevP

*Thoughts on 100 kWh battery pack*


----------



## Rick59

TrevP said:


> *Thoughts on 100 kWh battery pack*


Good video. Link to battery architecture video?


----------



## TrevP

Watch it on YouTube, it's in the video description. Make sure you subscribe to the channel so you know when I put out a new video


----------



## chopr147

Thank you for the great info! I look forward to your videos and have learned alot more about battery production, Lithium ion , kwh etc...........than I ever planned


----------



## TrevP

September Model 3 News and discussion on when we will see prototypes...


----------



## Rick59

Good video, Trev. Thanks. What was the irritating noise throughout most of the video?


----------



## Charlie W

Great video, Trev! Thanks!


----------



## TrevP

Special thanks to forum member @Paul Spiers for joining me on an autumn ride along to discuss EVs and Model 3. Video coming soon


----------



## Paul Spiers

Thanks for having me on the dead leaf tour, Trevor.


----------



## TrevP

*Ride Along Tesla & EV Discussion *#TeslaModel3 #Tesla


----------



## Rick59

Still waiting for the pink shirt you promised me.


----------



## TrevP

I'll have to pick my least favourite red shirt and have my wife "alter" it with some Clorox


----------



## Rick59

TrevP said:


> I'll have to pick my least favourite red shirt and have my wife "alter" it with some Clorox


Or wear a matching watch band.
I fear that others may wonder what the hell we're talking about.


----------



## Michael Russo

Great talk.... and pleasant views from Ontario in the fall!! Thanks!


----------



## Thomas Hendricks

Fun drive around and talking video. Your destination should have been the Tesla store or a Super Charger. Maybe talk with someone charging if they were there.


----------



## TrevP

Thomas Hendricks said:


> Fun drive around and talking video. Your destination should have been the Tesla store or a Super Charger. Maybe talk with someone charging if they were there.


I'm mulling over doing a ride along with my dad and taking him to a Tesla store for a test drive. He's never been in one so I'm curious to see his reaction


----------



## MelindaV

@TrevP I think that would be fantastic!


----------



## TrevP

It all depends on his proclivity for being on camera.


----------



## Paul Spiers

TrevP said:


> I'm mulling over doing a ride along with my dad and taking him to a Tesla store for a test drive. He's never been in one so I'm curious to see his reaction


Great idea Trevor, just use your son guilt inducement. Like "Dad you and I dont hang out together anymore, I feel like we are drifting apart". If that doesn't work then just hide the cameras and do it anyway.:smilingimp:


----------



## TrevP

*Tesla Autopilot 2.0 in detail *


----------



## Daliman

Thanks Trevor for the fantastic summary and all your hard work on our behalf. Certainly hope that autonomy in model 3 reaches an affordable price. This may be where I spend my ontario credit to finance it and try to make it pay by using mine as part of the fleet. Even a trip to downtown Toronto and back 200 days a year should pay 20000 for four occupants. Would love to see your dad. Cheers


----------



## TrevP

In this video I interview Paul Carter, author of the Tesla Model 3 Reservation Data Gathering website model3tracker.info


----------



## TrevP

*November 7 Model 3 Updates. Supercharger changes discussed too! *


----------



## TrevP

*New Supercharger Program Explained for Model 3 Reservation Holders*


----------



## TrevP

*Model 3 Options and streamlining for production
*


----------



## Dan Detweiler

I sure hope you're right on price. I was thinking a maxed out Ludicrous Model 3 would be more like $75-$80,000.

Dan


----------



## TrevP

*Autopilot is artificial intelligence! HUD evidence for all Teslas soon *


----------



## Rick59

Very exciting stuff. That's as close as I've seen you almost giggling on camera. Hope you're right about HUD.


----------



## Daliman

Zowee! Trev what an amazing video. The depth of the research you did in putting all these pieces together for us is really appreciated. I hope and expect that the model 3 will match your deductions. Cheers.


----------



## Dan Detweiler

One thought regarding cost. If Tesla goes to an AI HUD system on the Model 3 that will certainly come with a cost. However, it seems to me that the majority of the "meat" of the system is software related. With the advent of the Tesla Glass program the hardware costs would seem to be minimal. Also, what costs could be eliminated with the use of this type system? Gauges, knobs, switches, panel complexity, etc. Seems to me it could be a wash, if not cheaper to go the AI HUD direction.

Great video Trevor! Thanks

Dan


----------



## Michael Russo

Dan Detweiler said:


> One thought regarding cost. If Tesla goes to an AI HUD system on the Model 3 that will certainly come with a cost. However, it seems to me that the majority of the "meat" of the system is software related. With the advent of the Tesla Glass program the hardware costs would seem to be minimal. Also, what costs could be eliminated with the use of this type system? Gauges, knobs, switches, panel complexity, etc. Seems to me it could be a wash, if not cheaper to go the AI HUD direction.
> 
> Great video Trevor! Thanks
> 
> Dan


I agree with @Dan Detweiler on all counts. 
First of all, indeed a very powerful & informative summary, extremely well done, Trev!! Appreciate all you do to keep up to speed & beyond with your videos, posts & tweets!! I am definitely going to have to watch it a couple of times to try & grasp some of the more technical components... 
On the cost of the HUD/augmented reality functionality, that remains the big unknown... Yet I also would hope, since Model ≡ presumably won't have a regular dash (which is fine by me), that they would make the HUD available for a reasonable price, if not standard... If part of the Autopilot 2.0 package (before self-driving) which if got it right is likely to cost at least $3-4k, that could be prohibitive... of course, also keen to get adaptive driving, again part of Autopilot... Oh well, and I never thought I would have said this, in the worst case I may drop the leather seats... unless I can afford Trev's Better package!!


----------



## Dan Detweiler

If an AI HUD were standard on all Model 3s I could see this potentially actually saving on the cost of production over a traditional display. Think about all that goes into a traditional plinth. That's a lot of gauges and knobs and switches and such that wouldn't need to be purchased.

Dan


----------



## Guy Weathersby

For whatever it's worth, my guess is that the HUD hardware will be standard, as will basic displays, such as speed and warning messages. Advanced display will be separate, or may be bundled with Autopilot or autonomy. It seems like a very Tesla way of doing it.


----------



## Michael Russo

TrevP said:


> *Autopilot is artificial intelligence! HUD evidence for all Teslas soon *


@TrevP , look, in addition to magical powers influencing key HR recruiting decisions... Now you're driving relevant stock price up retroactively!! You're really the man!! 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatsp...ing-the-surge-in-nvidias-automotive-revenues/


----------



## 3Victoria

Yes, traditional dashboards must be expensive: hardware, wiring harnesses, installation. HUD might actually be cheaper! I wonder if they will include a camera looking at the driver, so they can adjust for head position for AR, and monitor attention?, say?


----------



## Gabzqc

Trevor, an excellent Video! I have shared to all my Tesla friends and earned you a few more views. I am so incredibly excited about whats coming on the Model 3!!! Well done!


----------



## 3Victoria

What do you think about NVidia's next generation chips Xavier?

See: https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2016/09/28/xavier/ 
"a single Xavier AI processor will be able to replace today's DRIVE PX 2 configured with dual mobile SoCs and dual discrete GPUs - at a fraction of the power consumption."

I could see Tesla using 2, 4, or more to enable an enhanced sensor suite in the future, with perhaps 360o radar/lidar with the additional channels.


----------



## Kizzy

3Victoria said:


> What do you think about NVidia's next generation chips Xavier?
> 
> See: https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2016/09/28/xavier/
> "a single Xavier AI processor will be able to replace today's DRIVE PX 2 configured with dual mobile SoCs and dual discrete GPUs - at a fraction of the power consumption."
> 
> I could see Tesla using 2, 4, or more to enable an enhanced sensor suite in the future, with perhaps 360o radar/lidar with the additional channels.


Too late to see this show up in the first M ≡s. I wonder how much of an impact the PX 2 system has on the battery.


----------



## 3Victoria

Kizzy said:


> Too late to see this show up in the first M ≡s. I wonder how much of an impact the PX 2 system has on the battery.


Yes, not out until next year, they say. However, computer is supposed to be easily accessed and so an upgrade could be done. I do not think the DRIVE PX 2 will have too much impact on the battery.


----------



## TrevP

CES is coming in January so we should have more details on that soon.

If it's directly compatible with the current system Tesla could end up using it in the Model 3, especially if it's cheaper but most likely at a later date given the timing for production.


----------



## Badback

I think that the biggest advantage of a HUD over gauges is that it can be reprogrammed.


----------



## Michael Russo

Badback said:


> I think that the biggest advantage of a HUD over gauges is that it can be reprogrammed.


Plus I really like the safe, spacy look about it!!


----------



## TrevP

Badback said:


> I think that the biggest advantage of a HUD over gauges is that it can be reprogrammed.


Updating the UI is one of the single most easy things Tesla does to keep their cars fresh. A 2012 Model S gets the same UI as a brand new 2016 car. Can't beat that.


----------



## Michael Russo

Rewatched Trev's latest video after having visioned the entire Nvidia 2016 CES show (sorry, Trev, I know you said you had posted the link to it but I think since I only consult the TOO forum on my iPhone, I don't think I can see those... or too moronic to find them... ).
Anyhow, Trev, you really did an amazing job extracting the essence of that over one hour presentation into a greatly condensed summary of what the Drive PX2 does to enable Autopilot 2.0, plus the extra spin on the Drive CX complement, possibly with Continental technology to deliver the spaceship-like AR HUD we're dreaming of!!
Fantastic job... and great education to those of us who up to now barely knew what a CPU was.... let alone a GPU...  But I deal with Excel fine... 
Have a nice evening!


----------



## TrevP

Thanks Mike!


----------



## TrevP

*Something nobody is talking about: Autonomous cars and law enforcement: a discussion*


----------



## TrevP

*Something nobody is talking about: Autonomous cars and law enforcement: a discussion*


----------



## Gilberto Pe-Curto

Iupiiiiiii!!!
I needed that....


----------



## Michael Russo

Very interesting, thank you!
Sleep has been scarce so just listened to it all in the wee hours of Singapore... 
Good point you made about the fact that technology will always be ahead of legislation.
Nice touch also by Ken when he mentioned the hope that legislations in EU and AP are also looking at how to integrate autonomous cars...
Kinda fear most WE countries will be somewhat lagging behind NA on evolution here... but that's OK... gives me time to get the Model ≡, probably without the full software to make it fit within my personal CEO budget limit, then potentially add it a few years later with more experience, more accepting legislation and additional savings on the side... not to mention that, being older then, I might also need it more!! 
Again, thank you both again! Great stuff!


----------



## Gilberto Pe-Curto

Gilberto Pe-Curto said:


> Iupiiiiiii!!!
> I needed that....


A glass of portuguese red wine in one hand and the cat on my lap.That's it !


----------



## MichelT3

TrevP said:


> *Something nobody is talking about: Autonomous cars and law enforcement: a discussion*


And again you've opened new perspectives AND given answers to what you saw!
Of course many of us already have thought about the advantage of drinking and autonomous drive. But you have added all those other legal aspects too! The speed with which the BEV / AD-transition is going now is really incredible! And you're helping us to stay in the forefront! THANKS!


----------



## MichelT3

TrevP said:


> CES is coming in January so we should have more details on that soon.
> 
> If it's directly compatible with the current system Tesla could end up using it in the Model 3, especially if it's cheaper but most likely at a later date given the timing for production.


Things like this make me happy I won't be one of the first to receive my Model 3. Getting already a number of physical improvements.
Because I expect that changes will be made regularly when hundred of thousands of cars are being produced.


----------



## Badback

MichelT3 said:


> Things like this make me happy I won't be one of the first to receive my Model 3. Getting already a number of physical improvements.
> Because I expect that changes will be made regularly when hundred of thousands of cars are being produced.


I see a new business opportunity here, drive-thru alcoholic beverages. McMartini anyone?
Obviously, the AI can't get nicked for open booze in the car.


----------



## MichelT3

Badback said:


> I see a new business opportunity here, drive-thru alcoholic beverages. McMartini anyone?
> Obviously, the AI can't get nicked for open booze in the car.


The Police Officer made it clear that you only will be allowed to be intoxicated _"if you're not in any way in control of the car" _= that it functions completely autonomous.


----------



## Dan Detweiler

I think one of the important things he mentioned in this conversation was that he felt unless there was a "mode" or way of completely disengaging the controls so that it was not possible for someone sitting in the driver's seat to manipulate anything (retractable steering mechanism, dead pedals) that the human occupant would always be responsible for the actions of the vehicle no matter what drive mode they happened to be operating under. We may very well have the full autonomous technology in our Model 3s when we get them but THAT ability certainly will not be engineered into the first generation cars...at least I don't see how they could do it in such short time.

Regardless, it is going to be a VERY interesting 12-18 months on the autonomous drive home front and I am thrilled to see what develops.

Dan


----------



## MichelT3

Dan Detweiler said:


> I think one of the important things he mentioned in this conversation was that he felt unless there was a "mode" or way of completely disengaging the controls so that it was not possible for someone sitting in the driver's seat to manipulate anything (retractable steering mechanism, dead pedals) that the human occupant would always be responsible for the actions of the vehicle no matter what drive mode they happened to be operating under. We may very well have the full autonomous technology in our Model 3s when we get them but THAT ability certainly will not be engineered into the first generation cars...at least I don't see how they could do it in such short time.
> 
> Regardless, it is going to be a VERY interesting 12-18 months on the autonomous drive home front and I am thrilled to see what develops.
> 
> Dan


I agree Dan, thanks, you explained 'completely'.
But don't you think that Tesla has been in contact with police authorities about this a long time ago? Probably even within the EU.
It must have been their plan all along to make Model 3 ready for level 5.


----------



## Dan Detweiler

MichelT3 said:


> I agree Dan, thanks, you explained 'completely'.
> But don't you think that Tesla has been in contact with police authorities about this a long time ago? Probably even within the EU.
> It must have been their plan all along to make Model 3 ready for level 5.


Certainly very possible. We'll see.

Dan


----------



## Michael Russo

MichelT3 said:


> I agree Dan, thanks, you explained 'completely'.
> But don't you think that Tesla has been in contact with police authorities about this a long time ago? Probably even within the EU.
> It must have been their plan all along to make Model 3 ready for level 5.


Hi @MichelT3 , as you know this is probably something which in the EU would require compliance at the national rather than the EU Commission level, hence I fear some of us may need to be a little more patient, no?


----------



## MichelT3

Michael Russo said:


> Hi @MichelT3 , as you know this is probably something which in the EU would require compliance at the national rather than the EU Commission level, hence I fear some of us may need to be a little more patient, no?


Hi Michael, well, one of the advantages of the EU is that if a car is certified in one of the EU countries it's automatically allowed in the whole of the EU. Regulations differ somewhat per country, but need to comply to EU standards.
So Tesla can chose in which country they're going to test the Model 3. I don't know in which country the S and X were certified.

One market and free trade, you know.


----------



## Michael Russo

I have spent so little time in Europe since mid-November that I don't even remember fully how it works, @MichelT3 !! Thanks for refreshing my memory!


----------



## MichelT3

This goes for all products which are sold in the EU...
Free trade and free movement of people.


----------



## MichelT3

Some news and some speculation about HUD and/or Augmented Reality in relation to Tesla.
http://nerdsmagazine.com/tesla-looks-to-include-augmented-reality-in-future-cars/


----------



## Michael Russo

MichelT3 said:


> Some news and some speculation about HUD and/or Augmented Reality in relation to Tesla.
> http://nerdsmagazine.com/tesla-looks-to-include-augmented-reality-in-future-cars/


Also love the candid admission about which magazine you read... LOL! 
Nice article. Definitely hope the AR won't require the headset... even if we end up not holding the wheel... ir whatever there will be ...


----------



## MichelT3

Such a usefull medium facebook :sunglasses: :tonguewink:


----------



## Michael Russo

MichelT3 said:


> Such a usefull medium facebook :sunglasses: :tonguewink:


Have totally discarded it now at the profit of M3OC... even in my dreams my right index is dancing on my iPhone virtual keyboard!!


----------



## MichelT3

This is also a very interesting article:
http://www.fool.com/investing/2016/12/02/what-tesla-motors-inc-is-saying-about-model-3.aspx
Strong commitment suppliers M3
Current deliveries 100.000, volume deliveries M3 2nd half 2017, 500.000 units in 2018.


----------



## Michael Russo

MichelT3 said:


> This is also a very interesting article:
> http://www.fool.com/investing/2016/12/02/what-tesla-motors-inc-is-saying-about-model-3.aspx
> Strong commitment suppliers M3
> Volume deliveries M3 2017Q3&4. 100.000 in 2017, 500.000 in 2018.


@MichelT3 , your choice of information source continues to intrigue me... After the Nerd Magazine... the Fool website...! 

All jokes inside, good reading indeed... One question though, where did you read the 100k projection for MODEL ≡ deliveries in 2017? 
I read a projection of 'volume deliveries' in 2017 and a 'current annualized production rate of 100000 (which for me merely means the annualized production rate of Model S & X combined, based on sales of 3q16, no?

Have a fine evening!
Mike


----------



## MichelT3

You're right. Not native US-English and not native financial speaker... I'll correct it.

Nerd + Fool, yes that sums me up (I hope... )


----------



## Michael Russo

MichelT3 said:


> You're right. Not native US-English and not native financial speaker... I'll correct it.


This is the beauty of this forum, we keep enhancing eachother! You have already done to me several times! Remember recently (yesterday? ) about compliance to EU vs. national legislations?! We all form a GREAT team!!


----------



## Michael Russo

Hi Trev & Ken, just got done watching Episod 11 while at the gym - makes the experience much more enjoyable !  - Great summary of all recent news again! Super job! Helps everybody catch up quickly out there, even more so for those who don't spend hours a day (enjoying every minute! ) on M3OC...!
Also well done on the increasingly global nature of your shows! It's really from Canada to the whole wide world now! Big kudos!!


----------



## MichelT3

Michael Russo said:


> Hi Trev & Ken, just got done watching Episod 11 while at the gym - makes the experience much more enjoyable !  - Great summary of all recent news again! Super job! Helps everybody catch up quickly out there, even more so for those who don't spend hours a day (enjoying every minute! ) on M3OC...!
> Also well done on the increasingly global nature of your shows! It's really from Canada to the whole wide world now! Big kudos!!


I second this. This forum and your shows @TrevP have hugely increased my knowledge and enthusiasm for the Model 3. :hearteyes: I already was convinced about the immense worth of what Tesla is doing, but now I'm even more so. :hearteyes:
I also love the good nature on this forum. Hardly the hassle and negativism :fearful: you have on most other fora, where people attack each other over the slightest difference. 
Anyway, looking forward very much to more news. :yum: Incredible how almost every day there are new developments! Thumbs up! :smile:


----------



## TrevP

*Q&A about the Model 3 Ordering Process*


----------



## Gilberto Pe-Curto

Thanks Obi-Wan Kenobi !


----------



## Gilberto Pe-Curto

Hey @TrevP 
Do you think that you'll get to test-drive before confirming the order in any point in the order process?


----------



## TrevP

Gilberto Pe-Curto said:


> Hey @TrevP
> Do you think that you'll get to test-drive before confirming the order in any point in the order process?


I don't think so until Tesla has filled some amount of backlog and can make a few cars to send out to the showrooms. The driving experience is what matters not to such the minutiae of the Model 3. Go test drive a Model S to get a feel for the Tesla "DNA". I have no qualms about buying the car without driving it. Tesla will exceed your expectation!


----------



## MichelT3

TrevP said:


> I don't think so until Tesla has filled some amount of backlog and can make a few cars to send out to the showrooms.


Another reason that I'm glad not to be among the first people who will receive their Model 3. I would love to see the car beforehand, the different options, the interiors, the colours and the way it drives. Not because I doubt that I want a Model3. Because I would love the fun of thinking and choosing. Very often _"the hunting is more gratifying than the spoils of the hunt"._


----------



## Michael Russo

@Trev, thank you as always, including for sharing it again from the interior of your (moving) Lincoln... while safely keeps your eyes on the road... Stay, safe, great leader & motivator... You are dear to us!! 
Quick practical question: in your mind, _when_ would you expect that each would get the first e-mail, _relative to our place in line_, including geography & time of reservation, 3-6 months in advance...? In other words, say I have a shot at getting my Model ≡ around late 2018/1Q19, I probably would not get this mail before mid- to fall 2018, correct?

Thank you & have a great day!
Mike


----------



## Michael Russo

TrevP said:


> *Autopilot is artificial intelligence! HUD evidence for all Teslas soon *


@TrevP , this one clearly has a life of its own! Bravo again! 
https://cleantechnica.com/2016/12/08/tesla-autopilot-2-0-ai-plus-evidence-hud-video/


----------



## TrevP

*Ken on the EV Revolution and Transition *


----------



## TrevP

And now for something completely different...

*A lithium battery snowblower review??*


----------



## Michael Russo

Useful stuff, @TrevP ! Good to broaden our EV thinking beyond those we can sit in!! 
Does the accelerated speed button for the pusher come as extra charge?


----------



## TrevP

I forgot to mention that's the Ludicrous mode!


----------



## Michael Russo

TrevP said:


> I forgot to mention that's the Ludicrous mode!


Effective!!! So, this was the TrevPL video!!


----------



## Gilberto Pe-Curto

TrevP said:


> And now for something completely different...
> 
> *A lithium battery snowblower review??*


It really is completely different and unheard of for me Here in sunny Portugal.
This was my day yesterday, Dec 11th
19C and beautiful waves to surf...
My wife had to go to the shade because She was feeling to hot because of the UV radiation.

Please don't get me wrong


__
http://instagr.am/p/BN4e1VMjcWU/


----------



## Michael Russo

Gilberto Pe-Curto said:


> It really is completely different and unheard of for me Here in sunny Portugal.
> This was my day yesterday, Dec 11th
> Please don't get me wrong
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BN4e1VMjcWU/


Amigo, I am sure they have the same kind as leaf blower... for the Portuguese fall season!


----------



## Gilberto Pe-Curto

Gilberto Pe-Curto said:


> It really is completely different and unheard of for me Here in sunny Portugal.
> This was my day yesterday, Dec 11th
> 19C and beautiful waves to surf...
> My wife had to go to the shade because She was feeling to hot because of the UV radiation.
> 
> Please don't get me wrong
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BN4e1VMjcWU/





Michael Russo said:


> Amigo, I am sure they have the same kind as leaf blower... for the Portuguese fall season!


One thing is for sure and Tesla's mission is noticed around here.
Winters are warmer and also ocean water temperature.
10 years ago I was freezing in the water in December and now is almost warmer than outside


----------



## Michael Russo

Gilberto Pe-Curto said:


> One thing is for sure and Tesla's mission is noticed around here.
> Winters are warmer and also ocean water temperature.
> 10 years ago I was freezing in the water in December and now is almost warmer than outside


Keeping my fingers crossed for the Gigafactory II !! :sunrise:


----------



## MichelT3

Gilberto Pe-Curto said:


> It really is completely different and unheard of for me Here in sunny Portugal.
> This was my day yesterday, Dec 11th
> 19C and beautiful waves to surf...
> My wife had to go to the shade because She was feeling to hot because of the UV radiation.
> 
> Please don't get me wrong
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BN4e1VMjcWU/


Hmmm, maybe we should move to Portugal? If the nationalistic trend in the Netherlands increases...


----------



## MichelT3

Michael Russo said:


> Keeping my fingers crossed for the Gigafactory II !! :sunrise:


The most important is that GF2 arrives.


----------



## Kizzy

TrevP said:


> And now for something completely different...
> 
> *A lithium battery snowblower review??*


Those Electrek articles point out some cool gadgets, no?


----------



## Red Sage

Badback said:


> I see a new business opportunity here, drive-thru alcoholic beverages. McMartini anyone?
> Obviously, the AI can't get nicked for open booze in the car.


I don't know about single serving ****tails... But Texas already features drive through booze barns and convenience stores. Yes, they let you buy ammunition that way too. Because you never know when you might need an 18-pack of beer, chewing gum, and .45 slugs at the same time when in a hurry on the road.


----------



## Guy Weathersby

Red Sage said:


> I don't know about single serving ****tails... But Texas already features drive through booze barns and convenience stores. Yes, they let you buy ammunition that way too. Because you never know when you might need an 18-pack of beer, chewing gum, and .45 slugs at the same time when in a hurry on the road.


I don't know if things have changed, but at one time Texas alcohol laws were a really crazy patchwork. As I understand it when Texas went from being a dry state, the law said that any political subdivision could pass its own liquor laws. The intent was to allow counties to make regulations, but the courts interpreted to be any thing down to voting precincts. When I was last there, many years ago, it was common to be able to get a beer with your pizza on one side of the street but not on the other.


----------



## Badback

I remember visiting a relative in Dallas, he picked me up at the airport in his pick'em up truck. We never went anywhere without a six pack on the front seat between us.


----------



## Red Sage

The very concept of a _'dry County'_ flabbergasted me as a child, it's almost as weird as no smoking allowed in a bar here in Los Angeles. My Uncle told me about how the _'Blue Laws'_ in Mississippi affected his business, a nightclub. I rode with him a couple of times when he restocked by going to a distributor that operated one of those drive-through booze barns.

Certain cities no business could operate on Sunday... Others no one could be served alcohol after 1:00 am, while others gave you until 2:00 am. Then there were the people who wanted to bring their own bottle and drink in the parking lot all night, but didn't want to pay the cover charge to see the live show inside. But they didn't want to leave the parking lot either, even though the venue could get in trouble for their being outside _'drinking in public'_.

It always seemed to me such laws would just push business down the road to the next County or Town instead. Beyond that, it also supported illegal off-the-books bootleg operations in the backwoods that also featured gambling and prostitution in _'all night long'_ establishments. There were, of course, kickbacks granted to any local Sheriff or Deputy for overlooking such operations. Hence, why The LAW didn't like my Uncle's completely legitimate and above board fully licensed business at all. It was seen to _'take money away'_ from others _(all hole-in-the-wall 'jook joints')_, because my Uncle ran the best place in the County.


----------



## TrevP

*January Model 3 UPDATES!!!*


----------



## TrevP

*New Supercharging rates and your Model 3, what to expect*


----------



## InElonWeTrust

TrevP said:


> *New Supercharging rates and your Model 3, what to expect*


This was especially informative, thanks for doing what you do. We all appreciate you!


----------



## Steve C

TrevP said:


> *New Supercharging rates and your Model 3, what to expect*


Love the lego scenery!


----------



## MichelT3

Very USA / CAN, but useful anyway.


----------



## MichelT3

What unbelievable, sometimes almost comical sockets you have in the US!


----------



## Steve C

TrevP said:


> *New Supercharging rates and your Model 3, what to expect*


I'm so glad you went into great lengths to explain the real use of superchargers. Not everyone gets it yet. Good to get the word out now so everyone knows.


----------



## TrevP

Thanks. 

I'll even tackle the misconception that Supercharging was free in the next M3OC show.


----------



## Michael Russo

Good summary (thanks for complementary comments & images pertaining to the EU situation!).
I particularly liked the reminder on the T≡SLA home charger requiring the (most likely optional) 72A charger on the car...! _Important to think of this at order time! _

On ChaDeMo, also good (re-)education. Somewhat intrigued you referred to these as 'fast', I guess then _relative to home charging _(obviously still about half of T≡SLA SC speed (on unshared stall). Did I understand correctly these charging stations sometimes allow _for <50 kW_? I had not caught this before. If yes, how far do they go & how prevalent are these (faster) ChaDeMo stations relative to the total? Thanks for clarifying!

In the end, it seems like the _future_ of long distance charging will mainly hinge on T≡SLA SC v3 as well as the new 350 kW CCS, right?


----------



## Mike

TrevP said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I'll even tackle the misconception that Supercharging was free in the next M3OC show.


Trev, thanks for finally clearing up some charging questions I've had lurking in the back of my mind for a while.

I look forward to your video of your garage charging setup when the time comes.

I'm also leaning toward the actual Tesla Wall Connector for my eventual installation, but not sure if I'll support it with a 100 amp circut or something like 60 amps.

Are you planning to do it yourself, with an ESA inspection, or getting an electrician to do the whole thing?

Thanks 
Cheers 
Mike


----------



## Badback

TrevP said:


> *New Supercharging rates and your Model 3, what to expect*


Trevor, you were right the first time, energy is measured in kWh, power is measured in kW. Since you are paying for energy, it's cents/kWh.


----------



## TrevP

Mike said:


> Trev, thanks for finally clearing up some charging questions I've had lurking in the back of my mind for a while.
> 
> I look forward to your video of your garage charging setup when the time comes.
> 
> I'm also leaning toward the actual Tesla Wall Connector for my eventual installation, but not sure if I'll support it with a 100 amp circut or something like 60 amps.
> 
> Are you planning to do it yourself, with an ESA inspection, or getting an electrician to do the whole thing?
> 
> Thanks
> Cheers
> Mike


First I need an electrician to come out and survey my situation. We live in a townhouse that has a separate garage 20 feet away from the house. Meter is on the garage and conduit underground to the house into the main panel then back out to the garage to a sub panel with 15amps. What I don't know is if the run back to the garage is in conduit so we can pull new wire. A proper electrician will be able to help me here. I'm sure if they tell me what I need to do I can handle the rest and get an inspection but I might just get someone to do the whole thing.

Our main panel is 100amp but I've been told I might able to upgrade to 200amps provided the cost isn't too much. If that's the case I'll run an 80amp to the garage and split it into 2 40amp outlets: one for the HPWC and have a NEMA 15-50 outlet for my wife in case she decides to get an EV.


----------



## Mike

TrevP said:


> First I need an electrician to come out and survey my situation. We live in a townhouse that has a separate garage 20 feet away from the house. Meter is on the garage and conduit underground to the house into the main panel then back out to the garage to a sub panel with 15amps. What I don't know is if the run back to the garage is in conduit so we can pull new wire. A proper electrician will be able to help me here. I'm sure if they tell me what I need to do I can handle the rest and get an inspection but I might just get someone to do the whole thing.
> 
> Our main panel is 100amp but I've been told I might able to upgrade to 200amps provided the cost isn't too much. If that's the case I'll run an 80amp to the garage and split it into 2 40amp outlets: one for the HPWC and have a NEMA 15-50 outlet for my wife in case she decides to get an EV.


Thanks, that gives me some sort of reference to go with.
My situation, the 200 amp service is in my garage. So I could run two 50 amp circuits, one for the HPWC and the other for the future second ev.
I know you have to plan to run the circuits at only 80% ampacity of the circuits, so I may build to 60 amps with the object of running 48 amps continuous. Cheers.


----------



## Steve C

I was fortune enough to run 100amp service to my garage a couple years ago.

I'll start with one tesla charger but do it with a second in mind later down the road.

Perhaps for the model Y for the wife, or if this stock keeps going..... maybe the new roadster in a couple years.

Wrong thread for it but...... if the S can do it in 2.34..... imagine the new roadster. Look out automotive world! There is no stopping Musk now!


----------



## Badback

TrevP said:


> First I need an electrician to come out and survey my situation. We live in a townhouse that has a separate garage 20 feet away from the house. Meter is on the garage and conduit underground to the house into the main panel then back out to the garage to a sub panel with 15amps. What I don't know is if the run back to the garage is in conduit so we can pull new wire. A proper electrician will be able to help me here. I'm sure if they tell me what I need to do I can handle the rest and get an inspection but I might just get someone to do the whole thing.
> 
> Our main panel is 100amp but I've been told I might able to upgrade to 200amps provided the cost isn't too much. If that's the case I'll run an 80amp to the garage and split it into 2 40amp outlets: one for the HPWC and have a NEMA 15-50 outlet for my wife in case she decides to get an EV.


Trev, If the meter is on the garage, it would probably be better to tap off of the bottom of the meter and put a new panel in the garage. Coming back from the house only makes for more losses in the cable and adds unnecessary cost.

You would need an electrician to do this, and the utility would have to temporarily disconnect power at the transformer for safety. The question is whether or not the utility would sallow the taps. These are T shaped connectors, they are kind of bulky once they are all taped up. So, there would have to be space in the meter box.

Once the panel is in place, you could do the rest of the work yourself.


----------



## Steve C

Badback said:


> Trev, If the meter is on the garage, it would probably be better to tap off of the bottom of the meter and put a new panel in the garage. Coming back from the house only makes for more losses in the cable and adds unnecessary cost.
> 
> You would need an electrician to do this, and the utility would have to temporarily disconnect power at the transformer for safety. The question is whether or not the utility would sallow the taps. These are T shaped connectors, they are kind of bulky once they are all taped up. So, there would have to be space in the meter box.
> 
> Once the panel is in place, you could do the rest of the work yourself.


I believe his main panel is in the house with a 15amp sub-panel in the garage.


----------



## Badback

Steve C said:


> I believe his main panel is in the house with a 15amp sub-panel in the garage.


There is no reason why he can't have two panels in the garage.


----------



## Steve C

Badback said:


> There is no reason why he can't have two panels in the garage.


Agreed. I was just mentioning something I thought you had not realized.

Better hope for a conduit though.


----------



## TrevP

*A visit with EVAnnex!*


----------



## Michael Russo

TrevP said:


> *A visit with EVAnnex!*


Great background music... very 'Floridian' 
Seriously, well done... These guys look really nice!!
I'm _definitely_ getting the _red caliper covers _for Midnight S≡R≡NITY!! So cool.


----------



## TrevP

*Model 3 Updates / Feb 9 2017. Limited beta production starting and I have some rumours... *


----------



## Michael Russo

Very interesting... thanks, Trev!
'Stuff's getting better... stuff's getting better every day*... 

* Who'll be the first to identify the movie this line comes from?


----------



## Steve

Michael Russo said:


> Very interesting... thanks, Trev!
> 'Stuff's getting better... stuff's getting better every day*...
> 
> * Who'll be the first to identify the movie this line comes from?


It is from "The Postman", starring Kevin Costner.


----------



## Michael Russo

Steve said:


> It is from "The Postman", starring Kevin Costner.


Kudo to you, @Steve C !! :rocket:
I love the positive spirit of that movie...


----------



## Steve

Michael Russo said:


> Kudo to you, @Steve C !! :rocket:
> I love the positive spirit of that movie...


I agree plus I was a US Postal carrier for 31 plus years.... Steve


----------



## garsh

Holy crap! 2s?????

And I told myself that I would order whatever configuration gets me a Model 3 earliest, but I don't know if I can accept RWD over AWD.


----------



## Steve C

TrevP said:


> *Model 3 Updates / Feb 9 2017. Limited beta production starting and I have some rumours... *


Love the video @TrevP. Thanks again for always doing it for us.


----------



## Steve C

garsh said:


> Holy crap! 2s?????
> 
> And I told myself that I would order whatever configuration gets me a Model 3 earliest, but I don't know if I can accept RWD over AWD.


Ya. Me either. I'll wait it out for the features I want.

If they put the new cells in the model S/X, there will be some weight savings and gains in energy density, 2s could be possible.

Just crazy. How high can the stock go before the reveal??


----------



## Tom Bodera

Great video Trev. Poped up on my watch list 20 mins after you posted and was consumed immediately.


----------



## Mike

TrevP said:


> *Model 3 Updates / Feb 9 2017. Limited beta production starting and I have some rumours... *


I love the idea of cars with big batteries and not much else coming out first.


----------



## MichelT3

Range, range first. Because that's what the general public always moans about.


----------



## TrevP

*Model 3 Production starts in July!! Lots of info!*


----------



## Rick59

Trev, how about a t-shirt that says "Ottawa before Toronto, eh"? XXL for me, any colour.


----------



## TrevP

*Canadian EV Incentives Revisited for 2017*


----------



## Michael Russo

Great video on the betas tonight, @TrevP , thank you! What a day it will be when one is seen that is not Silver or Matt Black!!! 

Was that an e-Book on Elon from Ashley Vance? Amazon?
Good evening,
Mike


----------



## TrevP

*Where are the Model 3 BETAs??*

*



*


----------



## TrevP

Michael Russo said:


> Great video on the betas tonight, @TrevP , thank you! What a day it will be when one is seen that is not Silver or Matt Black!!!
> 
> Was that an e-Book on Elon from Ashley Vance? Amazon?
> Good evening,
> Mike


Thanks. There's both paperback and eBook versions. I prefer ebooks these days with all the environmental stufff


----------



## Robnoper

I had a dream! some famous person said that once, but I did last night. the reason we haven't seen any Model 3 betas is because they are all being driven in underground test tracks that have been bored underground recently by Elton Musk recent acquisition, his tunnel boring machine. that way they can keep all the final designs and up coming model Y a secret.

Well made sense in my dream anyway.

Can't wait for the next reveal and online configurator being available.


----------



## TrevP

*March 17 Model 3 Updates*


----------



## Michael Russo

Well done, @TrevP ... Waiting in line in your car... never a dull moment in the M3OC world!!


----------



## Daliman

Ah those betas that now will never be. I am not too concerned about Tesla skipping this step so long as the quality control is strict coming off the line. A very good sign for the production line being ready by July if they can come close to making cars on production equipment now. I agree that 5 min is too short, deliveries will be an event for most of us. Future show first Model 3 delivery event in the GTA?


----------



## TrevP

*About those Model 3 rear windows…
*


----------



## Daliman

You are our window on the Model 3! Sorry for that. Thanks for the info. Not something I ever paid attention to. Can't imagine anyone cancelling a reservation over this.


----------



## Michael Russo

Good, thorough analysis, with practical live demos... Well done, Trev!
Just so all are clear, since you return to the high end connotation of frameless designs at the end of the video, that is not the reason why rear windows can't go all the way down. That has more to do, as you demonstrated effectively by showing on cars earlier, with the way the door is designed in the back of the front position of the wheel arch liner.
And yes, right on when you point out the additional challenges for the right seals in case of frameless designs. By the way, to complete the education, seals that guide the window as it goes up & down are called GRCs (i.e. Glass run channels). 
And, for the record, I am also _not_ going to renounce my beautiful Midnight S≡R≡NITY because it's rear windows don't disappear...


----------



## Badback

My OTHER has allergies, we never open the windows.

The original frame-less windows did not have the electric mechanism to move the window down/up into a seal, but rather depended on a slight angular difference between the glass and gasket to make the seal when the door was closed. In some models, fatigue in the window tracks made for a poor, leaky and noisy window as the car aged.


----------



## TrevP

*First video of the Model 3 production candidate!*


----------



## TE3LA

TrevP said:


> *First video of the Model 3 production candidate!*


 Thanks for another great video Trevor. Can you comment on how waiting for a dual motor might affect us 3/1 reservation holders in the US for the 7500 tax credit? I welcome others thoughts too. I want the dual motor, but I really can't afford to lose that credit.


----------



## Michael Russo

TE3LA said:


> Thanks for another great video Trevor. Can you comment on how waiting for a dual motor might affect us 3/1 reservation holders in the US for the 7500 tax credit?


The article below provides a possible answer, estimated last September, so obviously take it with a grain of salt... (Thanks, @JBsC6 !)
https://cleantechnica.com/2016/09/23/gm-vs-tesla-will-reach-200000-us-electric-car-sales-1st/


----------



## TrevP

TE3LA said:


> Thanks for another great video Trevor. Can you comment on how waiting for a dual motor might affect us 3/1 reservation holders in the US for the 7500 tax credit? I welcome others thoughts too. I want the dual motor, but I really can't afford to lose that credit.


Please remember the Tex credit does not immediately get cut off the second Tesla sells its 200K car in the US. There is a phaseout period lasting 1 year and they could "game it" with proper timing. There is NO LIMIT to how many cars they can build and sell during the initial phaseout period where you can still claim the full $7500 credit. Tesla is aiming to ramp production fast enough to do the "right thing" for as many as possible.

I did a video explaining it. Go have a look at past videos on my channel.


----------



## garsh

TrevP said:


> I did a video explaining it.


----------



## TrevP

*Model 3 Owners Club Live Stream March 30 2017 1PM EST*


----------



## Michael Russo

@TrevP . Nicely done... dumb, I know, yet how do people ask the questions to you during such a YouTube live stream? I am so hooked to my iPad Nano that I forgot other means of communicating!


----------



## TrevP

The YouTube live stream page has a chat window


----------



## Michael Russo

TrevP said:


> The YouTube live stream page has a chat window


Thanks, Trevor. Figured as much... Yet need a pc to access it, or can I also do it on iOS devices? 
Need to try it next time!!


----------



## Daliman

Hi Trev finally had a chance to watch. Great job again. About the internet connection I suspect the long term plan is to put it on the Spacex internet constellation. In the next few years Elon plans to launch thousands of small satelites and privided worldwide internet coverage. Seems a logical way to connect his worldwide fleet of Teslas so the fleet learns and can be updated. Curious about your thoughts.


----------



## TrevP

*Tesla Model 3 Production Candidate Spotted in the wild!*


----------



## Michael Russo

So, ok folks, this is the WYSIWYG night... 
Man... but I love the @Dan Detweiler blue 
Plan B to Midnight Silver?


----------



## Daliman

Thanks again Trev. I was at a very boring meeting surfing under the table when I saw the blue one. Almost jumped out of my chair! LOVE IT. When it was over passed around my phone. Thats your car amazing was the reaction. Drove home on rainy day and saw my first Model X driving along my street. Great day but how am I going to wait for a year?


----------



## Red Sage

Very good video! Definitely not a _'wet blanket'_ at all. Completely logical and on point! Thank you.

In other news...?

OK. I'll stop. *@TrevP* is obviously not *Iva Davies*.










Here's a nice *concert video* from 2011.


----------



## victor

Red Sage said:


> *@TrevP* is obviously not *Iva Davies*.


Of course Trev's not Iva Davies - he's Nick Rhodes.


----------



## TrevP

victor said:


> Of course Trev's not Iva Davies - he's Nick Rhodes.


Oh Jesus, that wig is horrid


----------



## Dan Detweiler

TrevP said:


> Oh Jesus, that wig is horrid


Uhhh...what did I just watch?

Dan


----------



## Red Sage

victor said:


> Of course Trev's not Iva Davies - he's Nick Rhodes.


Wow. I'm old. I knew all three songs. 

The bass player seemed to be kind of asleep the first two songs, but woke up quite nicely for the third.

@TrevP -- And... yeah. That was a pretty horrible wig.

@Dan Detweiler -- Apparently it was a short demo reel for a DURAN DURAN tribute band called NOTORIOUS. Like I said... I'm definitely old if there are tribute bands for groups that were popular when I was in high school. I think there is another for JOURNEY called DON'T STOP BELIEVIN and one more for BON JOVI called WANTED. Yeah. I'm old.


----------



## Dan Detweiler

Red Sage said:


> Wow. I'm old. I knew all three songs.
> 
> The bass player seemed to be kind of asleep the first two songs, but woke up quite nicely for the third.
> 
> @TrevP -- And... yeah. That was a pretty horrible wig.
> 
> @Dan Detweiler -- Apparently it was a short demo reel for a DURAN DURAN tribute band called NOTORIOUS. Like I said... I'm definitely old if there are tribute bands for groups that were popular when I was in high school. I think there is another for JOURNEY called DON'T STOP BELIEVIN and one more for BON JOVI called WANTED. Yeah. I'm old.


Yeah, I got that much but was that our Trevor Page playing keyboards wearing a wig and jacket that both look like somethng I last saw on the dance floor of a disco back in 1977? 

Dan


----------



## TrevP

*Getting ready for your Model 3 - Tesla Wall Connector Installation
*


----------



## garsh

Typo: replace "is" with "if" at 2:39.

At 13:05, you put the protective cover on, but forgot one of the screws for the front panel.
YOU'RE TOYING WITH MY OCD! Fix it NOW!


----------



## teslamcteslaface

@TrevP , it will be interesting to see if the monetization on this video pays for the connector before the car arrives


----------



## TE3LA

TrevP said:


> *Getting ready for your Model 3 - Tesla Wall Connector Installation
> *


Well done Trev!


----------



## Badback

TrevP said:


> *Getting ready for your Model 3 - Tesla Wall Connector Installation
> *


Trevor, great video. But, I had my engineer hat on while I was watching it and I noticed that there was no strain relief loop in the incoming wires. In the winter, those wires are going to shrink and could pull loose from the connector block. Best keep an eye on that.


----------



## TrevP

garsh said:


> Typo: replace "is" with "if" at 2:39.
> 
> At 13:05, you put the protective cover on, but forgot one of the screws for the front panel.
> YOU'RE TOYING WITH MY OCD! Fix it NOW!


You caught that huh?  I'm still trying to find that damn screw even though I put them all in my pocket!


----------



## TrevP

Badback said:


> Trevor, great video. But, I had my engineer hat on while I was watching it and I noticed that there was no strain relief loop in the incoming wires. In the winter, those wires are going to shrink and could pull loose from the connector block. Best keep an eye on that.


There is a strain relief on the wire coming into the back of the unit. The part where we're fiddling with the inside is when we installed it. And in case you ask, we even put putty on it to prevent water ingress


----------



## TrevP

teslamcteslaface said:


> @TrevP , it will be interesting to see if the monetization on this video pays for the connector before the car arrives


I paid for it out of pocket but any money made, as little as it is, from ads goes back into the Model 3 purchase fund


----------



## Rick59

TrevP said:


> I paid for it out of pocket but any money made, as little as it is, from ads goes back into the Model 3 purchase fund


or the "break my lease and get an S Fund"?


----------



## TrevP

Rick59 said:


> or the "break my lease and get an S Fund"?


Yeah, that's come up many times but I have less than a year left on the lease (I timed it that way on purpose for Model 3) so right now I'll just stick it out. I got my first piece of Tesla gear so I'm committed now


----------



## TE3LA

Curious TrevP, why put charger on outside of garage? You planning on listing your charger on PlugShare? Or was there another reason.


----------



## Mark C

Thanks for doing this and posting it online, and nicely done editing as well. This is almost exactly how I plan to do mine, except for all the details, of course.


----------



## TrevP

TE3LA said:


> Curious TrevP, why put charger on outside of garage? You planning on listing your charger on PlugShare? Or was there another reason.


We have a single car garage and a single parking spot. We hardly drive my wife's car so it lives in the garage. Putting it outside is convenient and I don't have to open the garage door. The unit is weatherproof so it's safe


----------



## JBsC6

After seeing the white tesla model 3 i realize why the launch vehicles had different size tires front and back..

THe vehicle really needs from an aesthetic point of view larger rear tires to carry the design without looking bloated out back...

My question to you is....do you believe staggered front to rear tires will be an option? 

Have you noticed the difference in stance between the launch reveal vehicles and the production vehicles running around.ll...? 

I think the rear headroom and roofline require larger rear tires to balance the design...


----------



## TrevP

garsh said:


> Typo: replace "is" with "if" at 2:39.
> 
> At 13:05, you put the protective cover on, but forgot one of the screws for the front panel.
> YOU'RE TOYING WITH MY OCD! Fix it NOW!


Found it!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/858323052869939200


----------



## TrevP

*May 3 2018 Model 3 Updates*


----------



## Michael Russo

Thanks, Trev, for this good first summary for those who sleep during earnings calls...


----------



## Daliman

Thanks Trev for another excellent summary. There were parts of the call I found really hard to hear. Very interested in the plan for the Y and what that implies.


----------



## Red Sage




----------



## TrevP

Red Sage said:


>


Heh, you got the joke


----------



## Red Sage

TrevP said:


> Heh, you got the joke


Yes. Great movie. And... I noticed the AWESOME Lego displays behind you in some of your videos.


----------



## TrevP

Red Sage said:


> Yes. Great movie. And... I noticed the AWESOME Lego displays behind you in some of your videos.


I have one more of those limited edition kits that haven't assembled yet. Have no idea why I haven't gotten around to it yet


----------



## TrevP

A HUD for your Model 3? We test the NAVDY HUD!!

*



*


----------



## Rick59

Great video. Thanks. A few points:
1. How well do you think it will work in the Model 3?
2. You will have to test other stuff specifically for the 3, e.g. Front licence plate mount, floor mats, seat covers, etc. We'll have to find a way to finance those things if the supplier will not give you stuff to test.


----------



## Michael Russo

Loved it, @TrevP , thank you very much for playing the guinnipeg, particularly for desperate HUDites like me... 
Looks really cool. Agree with you it's at least $100 on the high side - don't even want to begin thinking how dear it is over here in Europe! - yet might be tempted if I know for sure I can easily move it from one car to the other. What are your thoughts on that... is it possible or not in view of the sticky stuff to hold to the dash... I'm two cars away from Midnight S≡R≡NITY if I were to buy it now for the X5 thru YE, then use it in the 'bridge' car until my dream car is delivered...
Thanks again!
Mike


----------



## TrevP

Rick59 said:


> Great video. Thanks. A few points:
> 1. How well do you think it will work in the Model 3?
> 2. You will have to test other stuff specifically for the 3, e.g. Front licence plate mount, floor mats, seat covers, etc. We'll have to find a way to finance those things if the supplier will not give you stuff to test.


Should be fine as log as the car has an OBD2 port which I can't see it not having since I think it's required.

Other stuff will come in time once the car arrives and accessories are available. I have an arrangement with EVannex


----------



## teslamcteslaface

Very interesting - A little gimmicky for the time being for me personally . Lets see what the next generation looks like.


----------



## Rick59

TrevP said:


> Should be fine as log as the car has an OBD2 port which I can't see it not having since I think it's required.
> 
> Other stuff will come in time once the car arrives and accessories are available. I have an arrangement with EVannex


I read that the OBD2 port is live but doesn't pass along any car info. Apparently there is another port in the car.


----------



## Twiglett

teslamcteslaface said:


> Very interesting - A little gimmicky for the time being for me personally . Lets see what the next generation looks like.


my thoughts exactly, general day to day I have no need of navigation because I know where I'm going most of the time.
I'd really be interested to see a Navdy review on an EV, see what it does when you start to run down your battery 
For the _can't live without nav_ crowd I'll bet this is required.


----------



## TrevP

EV4Life said:


> my thoughts exactly, general day to day I have no need of navigation because I know where I'm going most of the time.
> I'd really be interested to see a Navdy review on an EV, see what it does when you start to run down your battery
> For the _can't live without nav_ crowd I'll bet this is required.


I'll be trying it out in a Model S hopefully in the next couple of weeks. I plan on doing a follow up report in the late spring.


----------



## Bokonon

Rick59 said:


> I read that the OBD2 port is live but doesn't pass along any car info. Apparently there is another port in the car.





TrevP said:


> I'll be trying it out in a Model S hopefully in the next couple of weeks. I plan on doing a follow up report in the late spring.


I've also read that Tesla limits (or otherwise obfuscates) the data running out of the OBD2 port. It also does not appear that Navdy (or any other aftermarket HUD, for that matter) was designed with any EV-specific functionality or compatibility in mind.

That said, here is a Navdy video review with a Model S 100D. Around the 8-minute mark, he starts playing around with the dashboard configuration, and notes that speedometer works, but the fuel gauge is unavailable, presumably because the car does not provide that data.

I wonder what it would take for EV manufacturers (led by Tesla, of course) to agree upon standard ODB outputs for EV-specific data (state of charge, estimated range, energy consumption), or even simply publish the specs of their own proprietary outputs. Until that happens, HUD manufacturers kind of have their hands tied with respect to supporting EVs. At least Navdy appears to be software-upgradable.


----------



## TrevP

Bokonon said:


> That said, here is a Navdy video review with a Model S 100D. Around the 8-minute mark, he starts playing around with the dashboard configuration, and notes that speedometer works, but the fuel gauge is unavailable, presumably because the car does not provide that data.


Kind of stands to reason you won't get fuel gauge data on an EV...

I watched his video and he doesn't do the unit justice or reviews it properly. He just seems to have a lot of money to blow on toys.


----------



## Bokonon

TrevP said:


> Kind of stands to reason you won't get fuel gauge data on an EV...
> 
> I watched his video and he doesn't do the unit justice or reviews it properly. He just seems to have a lot of money to blow on toys.


Yeah, sorry, I should have prefaced that link with a disclaimer about the quality of the review(er)... 

I don't know much about the ODB2 communication, but it seems to me like a willing EV OEM could theoretically support some basic EV metrics within the existing parameters spec.

Setting "Fuel Type" (parameter 51) = 8 ("electric") would inform any listening device that the vehicle is currently running on electricity, and to display/interpret the other results accordingly.

"Fuel Tank Level Input" (parameter 2F) seems analogous to the battery's state of charge

"Engine Fuel Rate" (parameter 5E) seems analogous to instantaneous energy consumption

"Range remaining" doesn't seem to have an equivalent parameter, and might require some fancy calculations based on the other metrics.


----------



## TrevP

I don't know how many pins are required given the total amount of them available are needed to supply every parameter. The Navdys connector has 8 pins. Two are mostly likely used for ground and power.


----------



## Bokonon

I think it only needs two of those pins to communicate with the CAN bus. The parameter IDs and values are transmitted over those pins using the ISO 15765 protocol.


----------



## Red Sage

Rick59 said:


> I read that the OBD2 port is live but doesn't pass along any car info. Apparently there is another port in the car.


In a Tesla, the port is there, and it passes along only legally required data. It most likely does _NOT_ pass along the sort of specific _'under the hood'_ data that those who want to do aftermarket tuning really _WANT_ to see though. Hence the complaints by those guys. I would direct them to the _'RISK FACTORS'_ section of Tesla's SEC filings for reference, then tell them to [SIERRA TANGO FOXTROT UNIFORM].


----------



## Badback

TrevP said:


> Kind of stands to reason you won't get fuel gauge data on an EV...
> 
> I watched his video and he doesn't do the unit justice or reviews it properly. He just seems to have a lot of money to blow on toys.


He probably could have done a better job without the half pint of vodka.


----------



## TrevP

*A recap of the Model 3 information we received today*


----------



## ElectrifiedSoul

Great update video. Keep up the good work. 

Correction: Length is 184.8 on the slide - not the Motor Trend 184.1 as stated in your video.


----------



## Red Sage

TrevP said:


> *A recap of the Model 3 information we received today*


How can I possibly be the man, when _U DA MAN?!?_ Here are my eternally deluded thoughts: 


I'm kinda bummed by the 14 ft³ rating on the size of the trunk _(I do not believe that includes frunk volume)_.
5.6 seconds to 60 MPH is about what I thought it would be, though I hoped for 5.4 seconds or less. _(FYI... The BMW 320i is 7.1 seconds, while the 328i has gone away, the 330i is at 5.5 seconds to 60 MPH)._
I cannot stand the phrase _'Pay Per Use Supercharging'_ -- makes me want to cry and stuff. I wish Tesla would just make it a paid option for Unlimited Supercharging -- I'd buy it, first thing.
Of the _'Premium Options'_ listed, I only saw one that I don't believe will be offered on Model ☰ at all -- the motorized door handles.


----------



## TrevP

*We experience a Model S What's it really like?*


----------



## Rick59

TrevP said:


> *We experience a Model S What's it really like?*


Fun video. So the wife likes red. Guess what colour Model 3 you're getting?


----------



## Daliman

Your wife likes the same Jaguar green I want. Alas I am sure that is not among the choices. Blue is winning for me.


----------



## TrevP

Rick59 said:


> Fun video. So the wife likes red. Guess what colour Model 3 you're getting?


My money. My car. My choice  She's ok with my colour choice though, which I'm still not revealing until later. Interior is another matter



Daliman said:


> Your wife likes the same Jaguar green I want. Alas I am sure that is not among the choices. Blue is winning for me.


It was you I was thinking of when I said we had forum members who wanted green. Along with @Topher


----------



## MelindaV

TrevP said:


> My money. My car. My choice  She's ok with my colour choice though, which I'm still not revealing until later. Interior is another matter
> 
> It was you I was thinking of when I said we had forum members who wanted green. Along with @Topher


I also would be happy to see a green option - particularly something like British Racing Green, but this morning a BM GLA in Kryptinite Green Metallic was next to me on the freeway, and while no where close to BRG, would take it!


----------



## Red Sage

MelindaV said:


> I also would be happy to see a green option - particularly something like British Racing Green, but this morning a BM GLA in Kryptinite Green Metallic was next to me on the freeway, and while no where close to BRG, would take it!


Yeah! That's the shade by Brother P69H would like! Perfect for him, as a fan of both the PACKERS and CELTICS.


----------



## Michael Russo

MelindaV said:


> I also would be happy to see a green option - particularly something like British Racing Green, but this morning a BM GLA in Kryptinite Green Metallic was next to me on the freeway, and while no where close to BRG, would take it!


Melinda, rated this as optimistic as green is the color of hope...


----------



## TrevP

MelindaV said:


> I also would be happy to see a green option - particularly something like British Racing Green, but this morning a BM GLA in Kryptinite Green Metallic was next to me on the freeway, and while no where close to BRG, would take it!


Anyone who wants a different colour just order a Model 3 in white and get it wrapped to whatever suits your fancy. That way it's not permanent and won't affect the resale value. White is pretty safe since that's almost 40% of cars sold today are.


----------



## garsh

TrevP said:


> Anyone who wants a different colour just order a Model 3 in white and get it wrapped to whatever suits your fancy. That way it's not permanent and won't affect the resale value. White is pretty safe since that's almost 40% of cars sold today are.


If Tesla only offers black as the base color option, get that instead. Better to save the up-front cost than to worry about the minor difference to future resale value.


----------



## Twiglett

TrevP said:


> Anyone who wants a different colour just order a Model 3 in white and get it wrapped to whatever suits your fancy. That way it's not permanent and won't affect the resale value. White is pretty safe since that's almost 40% of cars sold today are.


That was my idea, but every time I see the latest pictures I like whichever color is last shown 
However, after each "latest" color is shown, I'm starting to return to stormtrooper, with white, black wheels and dechrome.
Maybe with a giant 'T' stencil on the hood


----------



## TrevP

*My Tesla VIP Factory Tour*


----------



## Red Sage

Glad to see you had such a good time! I saw you in a couple of the other guy's videos too!


----------



## TrevP

The folks @ Like Tesla and Now You Know YouTube Channels just released some new episodes from our visit to the VIP event. Check them out!


----------



## $ Trillion Musk

Great discussion in the first video at around the 8 minute mark comparing the Model 3 to an iPhone. Having the versatility to update the user interface on a periodical basis helps justify the minimalistic interior design. I just hope that it captures the same timeless elegance of Apple products, that prompts other companies to follow suit (like what Apple did for Samsung, LG, etc). Otherwise, it might come across as looking too plain or cheap or just a fad that loses its novelty rather quickly. The exterior might look amazing but what a shame if the interior is not up to par with the exterior.

I'm a little worried that Tesla's re-strategy for such a high initial demand for Model 3 might cause overkill by providing a minimal viable product, manifesting a barebones interior, in order to simplify manufacturing at least in the first year of the Model 3's production.


----------



## Red Sage

Safe Daddy Driver said:


> Having the versatility to update the user interface on a periodical basis helps justify the minimalistic interior design.


That has been the case for five years with the Model S, if you want to put it that way. It was a perfectly logical decision. Graphical User Interfaces are by default versatile. That's a big part of the reason why even when sitting in a recording studio with racks of physical buttons, knobs, sliders, and switches, music Producers spend most of their time staring at the screen on their MacBook Pro.



Safe Daddy Driver said:


> I just hope that it captures the same timeless elegance of Apple products, that prompts other companies to follow suit (like what Apple did for Samsung, LG, etc).


Already happening.









*Volvo XC40*









*Volvo S90*









*Volvo XC90*



Safe Daddy Driver said:


> Otherwise, it might come across as looking too plain or cheap or just a fad that loses its novelty rather quickly.


And people have been claiming the Model S would be naught more than a _'passing fad'_ for five years straight. Shall we make it six? Seven? Eight? I've got more fingers here... There's a point where one must realize something has become the new standard and replaced older techniques and technologies. Not too many microwave ovens or kitchen stoves feature analog clocks.



Safe Daddy Driver said:


> The exterior might look amazing but what a shame if the interior is not up to par with the exterior.


I think you will be very pleasantly surprised on that tack. I expect it will be vehicles from AUDI, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz in the price range of Model ☰ that will be found to be lacking in direct comparison.



Safe Daddy Driver said:


> I'm a little worried that Tesla's re-strategy for such a high initial demand for Model 3 might cause overkill by providing a minimal viable product, manifesting a barebones interior, in order to simplify manufacturing at least in the first year of the Model 3's release.


Don't worry, be happy. The strategy remains the same -- offer the very best vehicle available for a $35,000 starting price. Prove that a _'minimal'_ Tesla still far exceeds what traditional automobile manufacturers can offer for the money. What the Tesla Model ☰ will _'manifest'_, or put on display, is a new paradigm of automotive excellence that does not hearken back to 19th century concepts of _'luxury', 'style', 'elegance', 'heritage'_ or whatever other trite terms bring to mind standards of _'status'_ that were employed when the reek of horse manure and warm urine in the mud was to be expected on the roads that led... anywhere. Just because something may not _'look rich'_ doesn't mean it has to _'look cheap'_. Let's look to _'The FUTURE!'_ instead, shall we?


----------



## $ Trillion Musk

Nice! Those Volvo pics are the exact color combination that I would like for my Model 3.

HQ interior pics posted by MelindaV in the Beta thread look awesome.


http://imgur.com/a/zhvq8


----------



## EVfusion

Red Sage said:


> ... And people have been claiming the Model S would be naught more than a _'passing fad'_ for five years straight. Shall we make it six? Seven? Eight? I've got more fingers here... There's a point where one must realize something has become the new standard and replaced older techniques and technologies. Not too many microwave ovens or kitchen stoves feature analog clocks.
> ...


 Totally agree. But the persistence of the Neanderthal gene is remarkable. It was years before I could buy the oven I wanted with an analogue clock. Some people still use cheque books. 
Given the inherent conservatism of the legacy car makers and the inertia of their internal bureaucracies I suspect it may take a decade or two before many of these changes become the norm.


----------



## Red Sage

Fun_for_the_grandkids said:


> Totally agree. But the persistence of the Neanderthal gene is remarkable. It was years before I could buy the oven I wanted with an analogue clock. Some people still use cheque books.


Because I've been in so many conversations over the past year about what makes a 'luxury' interior...? I've had the opportunity to read the copy at websites for various traditional automobile manufacturers and see how they describe their cars. Without fail, they go out of their way to mention the central analog clock, which I've personally recognized as a direct copy from Rolls-Royce for over thirty years. Yet each of them acts as if they are the first and only automobile manufacturer to ever put a chrome bezzeled crystal lens chronograph/clock in a dashboard in the entire history of like, EVER.












Fun_for_the_grandkids said:


> Given the inherent conservatism of the legacy car makers and the inertia of their internal bureaucracies I suspect it may take a decade or two before many of these changes become the norm.


There may still be a couple dozen people per year who spend the big bucks for a Bugatti Veyron or similar. And Rolls-Royce may be able to keep pumping out around 3,000-to-3,500 units per year worldwide to people who can't resist the allure of ICE. But companies that are not actually _'exclusive'_ at all, but purport to be anyway, will be signing their own death warrants by waiting as long as one or two decades to move away from the old ways. Some just keep _'updating'_ the same old stuff. But their window dressing just seems like overstuffed waste to me.


----------



## EVfusion

Red Sage said:


> There may still be a couple dozen people per year who spend the big bucks for a Bugatti Veyron or similar. And Rolls-Royce may be able to keep pumping out around 3,000-to-3,500 units per year worldwide to people who can't resist the allure of ICE. But companies that are not actually _'exclusive'_ at all, but purport to be anyway, will be signing their own death warrants by waiting as long as one or two decades to move away from the old ways. Some just keep _'updating'_ the same old stuff. But their window dressing just seems like overstuffed waste to me.


Share the sentiments. Just love the illustrations.


----------



## Badback

Red Sage said:


> That has been the case for five years with the Model S, if you want to put it that way. It was a perfectly logical decision. Graphical User Interfaces are by default versatile. That's a big part of the reason why even when sitting in a recording studio with racks of physical buttons, knobs, sliders, and switches, music Producers spend most of their time staring at the screen on their MacBook Pro.
> 
> Already happening.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Volvo XC40*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Volvo S90*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Volvo XC90*
> 
> And people have been claiming the Model S would be naught more than a _'passing fad'_ for five years straight. Shall we make it six? Seven? Eight? I've got more fingers here... There's a point where one must realize something has become the new standard and replaced older techniques and technologies. Not too many microwave ovens or kitchen stoves feature analog clocks.
> 
> I think you will be very pleasantly surprised on that tack. I expect it will be vehicles from AUDI, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz in the price range of Model ☰ that will be found to be lacking in direct comparison.
> 
> Don't worry, be happy. The strategy remains the same -- offer the very best vehicle available for a $35,000 starting price. Prove that a _'minimal'_ Tesla still far exceeds what traditional automobile manufacturers can offer for the money. What the Tesla Model ☰ will _'manifest'_, or put on display, is a new paradigm of automotive excellence that does not hearken back to 19th century concepts of _'luxury', 'style', 'elegance', 'heritage'_ or whatever other trite terms bring to mind standards of _'status'_ that were employed when the reek of horse manure and warm urine in the mud was to be expected on the roads that led... anywhere. Just because something may not _'look rich'_ doesn't mean it has to _'look cheap'_. Let's look to _'The FUTURE!'_ instead, shall we?


Do you mean that this isn't luxury any more?


----------



## Badback

Red Sage said:


> Because I've been in so many conversations over the past year about what makes a 'luxury' interior...? I've had the opportunity to read the copy at websites for various traditional automobile manufacturers and see how they describe their cars. Without fail, they go out of their way to mention the central analog clock, which I've personally recognized as a direct copy from Rolls-Royce for over thirty years. Yet each of them acts as if they are the first and only automobile manufacturer to ever put a chrome bezzeled crystal lens chronograph/clock in a dashboard in the entire history of like, EVER.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There may still be a couple dozen people per year who spend the big bucks for a Bugatti Veyron or similar. And Rolls-Royce may be able to keep pumping out around 3,000-to-3,500 units per year worldwide to people who can't resist the allure of ICE. But companies that are not actually _'exclusive'_ at all, but purport to be anyway, will be signing their own death warrants by waiting as long as one or two decades to move away from the old ways. Some just keep _'updating'_ the same old stuff. But their window dressing just seems like overstuffed waste to me.


Do you think that we could get aftermarket draperies for the Model 3?


----------



## Twiglett

Badback said:


> Do you mean that this isn't luxury any more?
> 
> View attachment 1876


Only for the president*


----------



## JBsC6

As long as the plastics in the interior are soft touch I love the released photos of the tesla model 3 interior without the wood strip of course...

Talk about anti sell campaign as that wood strip was horrible looking...(jmo)

The rest of the interior I though was minimalistic sheik a d will be a breeze to keep clean..

I always hated all those dam nooks and crannies and buttons and slots to try and keep clean over the years..

I'm especially excited to hear and see firsthand that low cowl, no instrument cluster really close front sightline very similiar to what Porsche does with its rear and mid engine sports cars...

To me that is the one of the nicest aspects of rear engine or battery packaged powerplants in everyday driving experiences...

I hope we are not limited to acceleration times stuck in the mid fives for both the 60 and 75kw versions of this vehicle including AWD models that eventually become available...

Now that would piss me off..


----------



## Daliman

That is clearly the base. At the reveal and in tweets Elon has said there will be versions that go much faster, there will be a performance version next year and the Model S will be fastest until the next roadster. I think less than 4 sec 0 to 60 is a reasonable estimate.


----------



## Red Sage

It seems that Alfa Romeo has moved back slightly regarding off-the-line performance for their Giulia Quadrifoglio. they now list it as 0-to-60 MPH in 3.8 seconds. I believe they showed it as 3.7 seconds previously. If the Model ☰ P75D _(P85D, P90D, P100D, P135D... hey, a man can dream)_ can reach 60 MPH in 3.3 seconds, that will be adequate. And if one of the gas guzzlers decides to try and one-up them at 3.2 seconds? Simply flip a few switches by way of over-the-air updates and presto! 0-to-60 MPH in 2.7 seconds. But first, it would be nice to post a Nürburgring lap time below 7:30, just to show them Tesla means business.


----------



## Red Sage

Badback said:


> Do you mean that this isn't luxury any more?
> 
> View attachment 1876


That, Sir, is the very height of pimpocity.


----------



## Red Sage

Badback said:


> Do you think that we could get aftermarket draperies for the Model 3?


Abso_SMURF_ly!


----------



## TrevP

Now You Know Guys posted another segment with Ryan and myself together talking about the Model 3


----------



## Red Sage

@TrevP -- Uhm... You mean the _'Now You Know'_ guys, right...?


----------



## TrevP

*Happy Father's Day and a visit to Brian's Crazy Classic Car Garage*


----------



## dudeman

@TrevP When you visited fremont factory, you guys did the white board exercise in the board room. I was wondering if there is a video of that posted somewhere online. Thanks!


----------



## TrevP

dudeman said:


> @TrevP When you visited fremont factory, you guys did the white board exercise in the board room. I was wondering if there is a video of that posted somewhere online. Thanks!


Check the Like Tesla YouTube channel. I'm pretty sure Kim posted a portion of it


----------



## TrevP

*Model 3 Range Solved!?*


----------



## bluesolarflare

In one of the photos from the reddit thread, it shows the rear view window and what looks like there is a graduated tint so I am wondering if that is just the camera playing tricks or by design.


----------



## TrevP

bluesolarflare said:


> In one of the photos from the reddit thread, it shows the rear view window and what looks like there is a graduated tint so I am wondering if that is just the camera playing tricks or by design.


Not sure about that but I do know the rear middle seat headrest is low, almost flush, and can be raised. Also the defroster lines are in a rectangular shape instead of horizontal. This indicates cost savings but having a single connection point at the bottom rather than 2, one of each side. Think about the savings in wiring and simplicity too!


----------



## dudeman

@TrevP do you still think there is going to hazard button up there?

Here is zoomed out version of pic, incase you haven't seen it already.


__
https://flic.kr/p/35461575195

Looks like it also has key card.


----------



## TrevP

dudeman said:


> @TrevP do you still think there is going to hazard button up there?
> 
> Here is zoomed out version of pic, incase you haven't seen it already.
> 
> 
> __
> https://flic.kr/p/35461575195
> 
> Looks like it also has key card.


Yes I saw that


----------



## MelindaV

bluesolarflare said:


> In one of the photos from the reddit thread, it shows the rear view window and what looks like there is a graduated tint so I am wondering if that is just the camera playing tricks or by design.


the rear window tint does stop partway down the window to allow the lower area to be clear to meet regulation requirements for transparency (which doesn't apply to the roof). Its similar to the top strip of tint on a windshield.


----------



## bluesolarflare

Thanks, I am wondering how that will affect aftermarket window tinting for the rear.


----------



## dudeman

TrevP said:


> *Happy Father's Day and a visit to Brian's Crazy Classic Car Garage*


Absolutely loved this video. Amazed how well he keeps things. So organized!! Great dad! Thank you for sharing!


----------



## TrevP

dudeman said:


> Absolutely loved this video. Amazed how well he keeps things. So organized!! Great dad! Thank you for sharing!


Thanks, glad you liked it! You might see him again in another video of what I want to do happens


----------



## Red Sage

TrevP said:


> *Happy Father's Day and a visit to Brian's Crazy Classic Car Garage*


Dude. I do believe your Dad and mine would have been _GREAT_ Friends! My Dad probably thought of himself as a _'Collector'_, but was not as well organized. Thus, he would be more accurately dubbed a _'Hoarder'_ instead. 

Corvettes and Thunderbirds: icons for real _'Car Guys'_ everywhere! Thanks a bunch for sharing this. Your Dad seems to be a truly cool guy, through and through.

.

.

_P.S. I think you may have given away your color choice for Model 3!_


----------



## dudeman

TrevP said:


> *Model 3 Range Solved!?*


Looks like the visor has two rectangular slots/cutouts. May be it will have a mirror and a light...


----------



## TrevP

‪A tour of my LEGO collection, and we build the massive Saturn V kit!


----------



## $ Trillion Musk

TrevP said:


> ‪A tour of my LEGO collection, and we build the massive Saturn V kit!


You sir are living my childhood dream! Need to dig up a picture of my transforming Optimus Prime made out of legos.


----------



## JWardell

You have me seriously tempted to stop by my local Legoland and come home with a rocket ship. From glances I never realized it contained all the Apollo modules. I will at least have to let Santa know. He's been good with bringing me legos the last few chirstmases.


----------



## TrevP

*July 2 Model 3 Updates IT'S HAPPENING!!*


----------



## Daliman

You look as tired as I do. Can't believe you managed to do this so early! Anyway very exciting news. All of the self discipline Tesla has shown will hopefully pay off in a smooth ramp up. Looking forward to the details in a few weeks, hope you can go. Thanks for helping to keep me sane, or at least informed during this long wait. Cheers.


----------



## TrevP

*A tour of the new Tesla configurator*


----------



## Iaeen

TrevP said:


> *A tour of the new Tesla configurator*


Thanks for the tour!

I have a couple of observations:
1. On the upgrades tab it says choose your upgrades OR build custom (may increase delivery time), so I don't think the old design studio is completely going away.
2. FSD is included in performance trim, but requires custom build on standard and premium trim levels. This seems really odd since it's just a software feature.
3. Subzero package requires custom built for standard trim level, which is a bummer for people up north. I couldn't care less about the premium upgrade package, but the cold weather package would be nice. OTOH, we probably want AWD too, so we're on the hook for the premium trim anyway.
4. I wouldn't be too surprised to see the (Model S) 75D be discounted. I'm sure the dual motor option is complicated and doesn't have great margins at that trim level. That being said, 50% price jump to get up to the premium trim level seems very steep to me. Also hope this doesn't spell doom for the M3 dual motor at a mass market price (i.e. premium trim at <=$50k)

Overall, I'm not sure how I feel about this. I wouldn't be surprised if the custom design studio isn't offered for the 3 since it is a mass market car. Price jumps are going to have to be a LOT smaller on the 3; especially if Elon's $42k average selling price is going to come true.


----------



## ReD eXiLe

Seems to be right in line with the Honda/Toyota way of doing things... DX, LX, EX or LX, EX, SE. Makes choices very straightforward. Certain features may not be available at particular trim levels by default, or at all. I have no problem with it at all. There are bound to be complaints from a vocal minority who want Minimum 'something' paired with Maximum 'something else'... But that is what the 'Custom Build' section is for, though they will then complain about the 'delayed' (actually deferred) Delivery date.

The notion of 'price jumps' should not be an issue at all. If a fully loaded Performance edition of Model 3 costs 50% more than its base version...? That will still be a bargain compared to contemporaries: Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio, BMW M3, Cadillac ATS-V, and Mercedes-AMG C63 S. While being right in line with AUDI S4, INFINITI Q50 RED Sport 400 AWD, and Lexus IS F Sport.


----------



## John

It's a challenge to convey complicated availability info at ordering time. If Tesla follows this "packages" path, it is adopting a "communication by presentation" approach, whereby the "fastest/most convenient to make" combinations are the "easiest to order."

It's also true that some people just prefer not to be presented with tons of decisions.

Packages encouraging customers who are open to suggestions to order in similar configs. If Tesla can encourage all of the customers who don't have strong feelings to order similar configurations, then it can run larger batches of similar cars, and streamline production somewhat (stage just one type of seats next to the line at a time, reduce the risk of momentarily running out of one style of a seat next to the line, reduce switching errors). 

It's very difficult to convey complicated dependencies such as "if you order white seats AND black paint AND the performance option, you delivery date will be 4 weeks later. The best color for white seats AND performance is red, which reduces wait time by two weeks. However, if you order white seats AND red paint AND performance AND premium interior your delay is just one week. Or, you could get white seats AND black paint right now if you drop performance and pick up the big battery." It's hard/impossible to communicate complicated inter-dependencies in a useful way.

If they allow total a la carte customization, you can do trial and error to see how it effects your delivery date, but it may take a LOT of trial and error to determine what is slowing down any particular combination. There may be non-intuitive combinations (like adding something you don't really care about, and that reduces your production time).


----------



## John

That having been said, I don't like packages. But I understand the manufacturer benefits from streamlining.


----------



## Iaeen

ReD eXiLe said:


> Seems to be right in line with the Honda/Toyota way of doing things... DX, LX, EX or LX, EX, SE. Makes choices very straightforward. Certain features may not be available at particular trim levels by default, or at all. I have no problem with it at all. There are bound to be complaints from a vocal minority who want Minimum 'something' paired with Maximum 'something else'... But that is what the 'Custom Build' section is for, though they will then complain about the 'delayed' (actually deferred) Delivery date.
> 
> The notion of 'price jumps' should not be an issue at all. If a fully loaded Performance edition of Model 3 costs 50% more than its base version...? That will still be a bargain compared to contemporaries: Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio, BMW M3, Cadillac ATS-V, and Mercedes-AMG C63 S. While being right in line with AUDI S4, INFINITI Q50 RED Sport 400 AWD, and Lexus IS F Sport.


We're not talking about the fully loaded performance model being 50% more; we're talking about the mid-level "premium" trim being 50% more than the base trim directly beneath it. The performance trim is ~125% more than the base, which is 50% again on top of the premium trim.

Honda et al. have more like 10-15% price jumps between trim levels. That makes it much easier to upsell. They also have more trim levels to chose from. For example the current Civic has 5 trim levels without even considering "si" and other special editions.

I'm not saying the prices are unreasonable for what you're getting or that pushing standard trims isn't a good move. All I'm saying that the 75 -> 100D jump between standard and premium trim leaves a surprisingly large hole in the Model S lineup, and that's a hole that, were I in the market for an S, I would have a hard time being happy on either side of. Hopefully it's also a hole that can be filled by the Model 3 P75D.


----------



## ReD eXiLe

~*sigh*~ It will be really nice when I no longer have to do such comparisons to enlighten people... But here are some starting prices for various competitors to the Tesla Model S:

_$82,500 ___ AUDI A8 L
$115,900 ___ AUDI S8 Plus _(40.48% over AUDI A8 L base)_

_$83,100 ___ BMW 740i
_$86,100 ___ BMW 740i xDrive
_$96,400 ___ BMW 750i _(16% over base 740i)_
_$99,400 ___ BMW 750i xDrive _(15.45% over base 740i xDrive)_
$138,800 ___ ALPINA B7 xDrive _(61.21% over 740i xDrive)_
$156,700 ___ BMW M760i xDrive _(82% over base 740i xDrive)_

_$96,000 ___ Mercedes-Benz S550
_$99,600 ___ Mercedes-Benz S550 4Matic
$144,700 ___ Mercedes-AMG S63 _(50.73% over base S550)_
$166,200 ___ Mercedes-Maybach S550 4Matic _(66.87% over base S550 4Matic)_
$166,200 ___ Mercedes-Maybach S600 _(73.13% over base S550)_
$170,750 ___ Mercedes-Benz S600 _(77.86% over base S550)_

_$85,000 ___ Porsche new Panamera _(seven models with starting prices up to $113,900 -- 34% over base)_
_$99,600 ___ Porsche new Panamera E-Hybrid _(17.18% over base to start; five models with starting prices up to $194,800 -- 129.18% over base)_
$150,000 ___ Porsche new Panamera Turbo _(76.47% over base to start; three models with starting prices up to $160,000 -- 88.24% over base)_

_$69,500 ___ Tesla Model S 75 _(18.7% less than AUDI A8 L)_
_$74,500 ___ Tesla Model S 75D _(7.19% over Model S 75)_
_$97,500 ___ Tesla Model S 100D _(30.87% over Model S 75D)_
$140,000 ___ Tesla Model S P100D _(43.59% over Model S 100D)_​
In my opinion, the Tesla Model S represents a bargain over its contemporaries. That is why it outsells each of them by a wide margin. There is nothing out of line with its pricing for various trim levels or options compared to the rest.

Apparently, it costs a lot of money to add turbos to high end Sedans. I'm very glad that the Model S doesn't need them. Isn't that cool?


----------



## teslamcteslaface

ReD eXiLe said:


> ~*sigh*~ It will be really nice when I no longer have to do such comparisons to enlighten people... But here are some starting prices for various competitors to the Tesla Model S:
> 
> _$82,500 ___ AUDI A8 L
> $115,900 ___ AUDI S8 Plus _(40.48% over AUDI A8 L base)_
> 
> _$83,100 ___ BMW 740i
> _$86,100 ___ BMW 740i xDrive
> _$96,400 ___ BMW 750i _(16% over base 740i)_
> _$99,400 ___ BMW 750i xDrive _(15.45% over base 740i xDrive)_
> $138,800 ___ ALPINA B7 xDrive _(61.21% over 740i xDrive)_
> $156,700 ___ BMW M760i xDrive _(82% over base 740i xDrive)_
> 
> _$96,000 ___ Mercedes-Benz S550
> _$99,600 ___ Mercedes-Benz S550 4Matic
> $144,700 ___ Mercedes-AMG S63 _(50.73% over base S550)_
> $166,200 ___ Mercedes-Maybach S550 4Matic _(66.87% over base S550 4Matic)_
> $166,200 ___ Mercedes-Maybach S600 _(73.13% over base S550)_
> $170,750 ___ Mercedes-Benz S600 _(77.86% over base S550)_
> 
> _$85,000 ___ Porsche new Panamera _(seven models with starting prices up to $113,900 -- 34% over base)_
> _$99,600 ___ Porsche new Panamera E-Hybrid _(17.18% over base to start; five models with starting prices up to $194,800 -- 129.18% over base)_
> $150,000 ___ Porsche new Panamera Turbo _(76.47% over base to start; three models with starting prices up to $160,000 -- 88.24% over base)_
> 
> _$69,500 ___ Tesla Model S 75 _(18.7% less than AUDI A8 L)_
> _$74,500 ___ Tesla Model S 75D _(7.19% over Model S 75)_
> _$97,500 ___ Tesla Model S 100D _(30.87% over Model S 75D)_
> $140,000 ___ Tesla Model S P100D _(43.59% over Model S 100D)_​
> In my opinion, the Tesla Model S represents a bargain over its contemporaries. That is why it outsells each of them by a wide margin. There is nothing out of line with its pricing for various trim levels or options compared to the rest.
> 
> Apparently, it costs a lot of money to add turbos to high end Sedans. I'm very glad that the Model S doesn't need them. Isn't that cool?


I would love if you do this for model 3 competitors  .....Interesting to see.


----------



## ReD eXiLe

teslamcteslaface said:


> I would love if you do this for model 3 competitors  .....Interesting to see.


The thing is...? I already have. Several times. I'm kinda sick of doing it... I have a pretty slow internet connection where I am now, so it takes a bit of time to manage.

I just wish people would simply take my word for it at this point -- Tesla does not _'gouge'_ on their pricing, as compared to traditional automobile manufacturers. Their prices are by comparison a bargain, even for their options. But instead, people seem to prefer to complain about features that they swear are standard on _'every car below $40,000'_ as if Tesla would be _'robbing'_ them somehow if they are not on every Model ☰. Then, I go and find a list of cars that absolutely do NOT have that feature, and prove that it is not standard on pretty much anything under $50,000 and is a rare option for anything under $40,000 and what is my reward for all that research...? They point to yet another _'feature'_ I have to research. It sucks.

See, though I keep most of my posts on my computer, I still have to do the research all over again because Acura, Alfa Romeo, AUDI, BMW, Cadillac, Infiniti, Jaguar, Lexus, and Mercedes-Benz are always updating their websites, adding and subtracting features, moving things around, while changing pricing. What might have been accurate two-to-six months ago, could be completely wrong today. Still, I might do it sometime tonight.


----------



## Michael Russo

teslamcteslaface said:


> I would love if you do this for model 3 competitors  .....Interesting to see.


Give @ReD eXiLe a few more weeks! 

Sorry, Red, our posts crossed paths!
What I meant to say is, give him a few more weeks until final Model ≡ prices are out. That you can't have done yet


----------



## teslamcteslaface

Michael Russo said:


> Give @ReD eXiLe a few more weeks!


Lets sticky it then , along with the model S competitor post above - good research should be up front and centre


----------



## Michael Russo

teslamcteslaface said:


> Lets sticky it then , along with the model S competitor post above - good research should be up front and centre


I am sure we'll notice it! Red font and all


----------



## TrevP

*Tesla Model 3 Serial Number 1 is here!!*


----------



## Dan Detweiler

If Tesla does go the package route I hope that the white interior will come in exterior colors other than red. I want my blue car with bright white interior!

Dan


----------



## MichelT3

Dan Detweiler said:


> If Tesla does go the package route I hope that the white interior will come in exterior colors other than red. I want my blue car with bright white interior!
> 
> Dan


Me too! 
Alternative is mc red with black


----------



## Twiglett

MichelT3 said:


> Me too!
> Alternative is mc red with black


ah! - What if Sig Red is offered ?


----------



## MichelT3

Twiglett said:


> ah! - What if Sig Red is offered ?


I certainly prefer Signature Red over Multi Colour Red. 
BUT, since the Midnight Silver picture came out today, I'm very tempted towards that!
Well I have at least 16 months before I need to decide. Based on seeing the cars in reality.


----------



## Michael Russo

MichelT3 said:


> I certainly prefer Signature Red over Multi Colour Red.
> BUT, since the Midnight Silver picture came out today, I'm very tempted towards that!
> Well I have at least 16 months before I need to decide. Based on seeing the cars in reality.


Even more so, dear Michel, since @Badback added this explosive scoop (cf. post #2079) earlier today!! 

https://teslaownersonline.com/threads/official-model-3-beta-watch-thread.2931/page-104


----------



## dudeman

@TrevP Tesla has a lot of employees ( solar adds a big number) ~30k. Spacex has over 4000 as well. Mostly relatively highly paid jobs. Also they were hiring a lot for their satellite business in Seattle.

I would assume that they have a lot more than 4000 reservations from employees. I would think more likely to be >15k easily, especially given tax credit will be on a short supply soon.

I wonder if they would fill ALL employee reservations first before public deliveries. In that case public delivery might only start in December.

I am not sure if only California employees get cars first or employees from other locations such as Seattle as well.


----------



## TrevP

It's about 4000 reservations I'm told by an employee who saw an "internal state of the union" by Elon a few months ago


----------



## John

4K? Great data!
I always assumed at least 10-15K, but 4K is more believable. 
I'm a wait-in-line California reserver, and I'd estimate I'm ~22K in line (after prior owners and folks closer up in line).
So sounds like a good bet I could have a car this year, if I ordered just a 75.
But depending on cost, I'm probably waiting for 75D, P75D, or P75DL, perhaps Mar-Apr-ish.


----------



## TrevP

*Model 3 Delivery Event Update*






*UPDATE*: We may end up using the YouTube app to stream live instead of Periscope. Make sure you subscribe to my YouTube channel and turn on notifications so you know when I go live. The notification icon is a bell, click on it.


----------



## SoFlaModel3

TrevP said:


> *Model 3 Delivery Event Update*


Very exciting!


----------



## John

I like the new camera and set up. Looks really good, more natural tones than a typical web cam.

If the configurator does NOT go live, please pump enough employees—who will have seen the configurator— for info on package groups and pricing.


----------



## EVfusion

TrevP said:


> *Model 3 Delivery Event Update*


Trevor, a big thanks to you and Ken. Looking forward to Friday evening (actually Saturday afternoon here in Oz) and what you can tell us.

Also very pleased that Tesla are planning an "employee appreciation event" focus for Friday night. This is so appropriate . The commitment that has gone into producing the Model 3 from designers, engineers, managers, factory workers etc. has been amazing. I for one am so appreciative of that effort - no doubt will be even more appreciative when I get the chance to sit in my Model 3 (early 2019 ).


----------



## TrevP

John said:


> I like the new camera and set up. Looks really good, more natural tones than a typical web cam.
> 
> If the configurator does NOT go live, please pump enough employees-who will have seen the configurator- for info on package groups and pricing.


I don't use a web cam. I have a Sony 4K camcorder I normally use. The SLR has a flat color profile that gives it that look. Something I have to normally color correct on the Sony so I don't usually bother other than warning it up a bit.


----------



## Dangermouse

TrevP said:


> *Model 3 Delivery Event Update*


Thanks for doing this, Trevor! Really looking forward to all the info we're about to get.

I wonder if the NDA will be off for all of the employees at the event, or at least partially off...keeping secrets for over a year must have been really tough.


----------



## JWardell

I have you followed on Periscope, what other accounts should I be ready to stream? And how many devices am I going to need Friday night? I hope the laptop, ipad, and iphone all sitting in front of me will be enough. Spaceship controls, indeed!
A cooler of beer at me feet too so I don't have to miss a moment.


----------



## John

JWardell said:


> A cooler of beer at me feet too so I don't have to miss a moment.


It will be important to pace yourself.
You don't want to see an empty cooler swimming in your vision as Elon finally takes the stage.


----------



## Rick59

JWardell said:


> I have you followed on Periscope, what other accounts should I be ready to stream? And how many devices am I going to need Friday night? I hope the laptop, ipad, and iphone all sitting in front of me will be enough. Spaceship controls, indeed!
> A cooler of beer at me feet too so I don't have to miss a moment.


I don't want to get too technical but I think an event of this magnitude requires salty (chips or popcorn) as well as sweet (chocolate or ice cream). I didn't get to my current size by sucking lemons.


----------



## John

Rick59 said:


> I don't want to get too technical but I think an event of this magnitude requires salty (chips or popcorn) as well as sweet (chocolate or ice cream). I didn't get to my current size by sucking lemons.


Get in my belly!!!


----------



## Mattstyle

We are all clearly going crazy waiting for Friday!


----------



## Dangermouse

JWardell said:


> I have you followed on Periscope, what other accounts should I be ready to stream? And how many devices am I going to need Friday night? I hope the laptop, ipad, and iphone all sitting in front of me will be enough. Spaceship controls, indeed!
> A cooler of beer at me feet too so I don't have to miss a moment.


Friday night:


----------



## dudeman

@TrevP Btw, you should definitely have few drinks during party imho. I feel bad that you won't be enjoying as much as you can, just for others.

You can add drinks/party review to the review as well. :beermug::beermug:

It would loosen you guys up and it would be a fun review video to watch. Doesn't make you any less professional. Makes you one of us. 

Cheers.


----------



## ReD eXiLe

Dangermouse said:


> Friday night:
> View attachment 2401


Heh. Elon on Friday night.


----------



## bluesolarflare

@TrevP Do you think you can do a video review on the new owners material (Video and Documents) that Tesla will be sending out to new owners if/when you get your hands on it?


----------



## SoFlaModel3

bluesolarflare said:


> @TrevP Do you think you can do a video review on the new owners material (Video and Documents) that Tesla will be sending out to new owners if/when you get your hands on it?


A video review of a video? 

All signs point to the owners manual being video based and most likely distributed before we get the cars in an effort to streamline the delivery process!!


----------



## bluesolarflare

Well more of Trevor's opinion on the materials sent out and if he thinks that they are satisfactory and if he thinks it will help streamline the delivery process.


----------



## ModFather

JWardell said:


> I have you followed on Periscope, what other accounts should I be ready to stream? And how many devices am I going to need Friday night? I hope the laptop, ipad, and iphone all sitting in front of me will be enough. Spaceship controls, indeed!
> A cooler of beer at me feet too so I don't have to miss a moment.


@JWardell if you don't want to miss anything and with that cooler of beer.............................you might want to consider some adult sized Depends!


----------



## PcGuy

Dangermouse said:


> Friday night:
> View attachment 2401


That looks like my office during March Madness!


----------



## Demetre

PcGuy said:


> That looks like my office during March Madness!


Reminds me of the Venetian during March Madness. Doesn't get much better than that!


----------



## TrevP

After the Tesla delivery event my wife joined me in San Francisco where we spent a week exploring the city and Bay Area

Hope you enjoy!

Part 1





Part 2





Part 3


----------



## TrevP

*August 11 Model 3 Updates Specs, Details & Pricing*


----------



## SoFlaModel3

TrevP said:


> *August 11 Model 3 Updates Specs, Details & Pricing*


Hopefully I can just listen and not watch -- thanks for the material for the drive home!


----------



## MichelT3

I've done the same calculation as @TrevP, USD to Euros, current Dutch prices... OMG!

*Tesla Model 3 prices US dollars -> Euro's *
11 August 2016 
 USD factor Euro
Model S 75 $57.700 1,4088 € 81.285
Model S 100D $85.700 1,3225 € 113.335

Model 3 Base $35.000 1,4088 € 49.306
Model 3 Long Range $44.000 1,3225 € 58.188

Premium $5.000 1,0600 € 5.300
Paint $1.000 1,0500 € 1.050
19" wheels $1.500 1,0667 € 1.600
EAP2 $5.000 1,0600 € 5.300
FSD $3.000 1,0667 € 3.200

Addition: Dutch € prices are including 21 % BTW (VAT/TVA/MWS). Which is deductible for companies and professionals, but not for private persons.


----------



## Michael Russo

MichelT3 said:


> I've done the same calculation as @TrevP, USD to Euros, current Dutch prices... OMG!
> 
> *Tesla Model 3 prices US dollars -> Euro's *
> 11 August 2016
> USD factor Euro
> Model S 75 $57.700 1,4088 € 81.285
> Model S 100D $85.700 1,3225 € 113.335
> 
> Model 3 Base $35.000 1,4088 € 49.306
> Model 3 Long Range $44.000 1,3225 € 58.188
> 
> (...)


OMG indeed.
I think this can work for the options.

For the 'naked' car prices, they cannot afford to apply the same ratio as for Model S as they would price themselves out of the market!!


----------



## SoFlaModel3

MichelT3 said:


> I've done the same calculation as @TrevP, USD to Euros, current Dutch prices... OMG!
> 
> *Tesla Model 3 prices US dollars -> Euro's *
> 11 August 2016
> USD factor Euro
> Model S 75 $57.700 1,4088 € 81.285
> Model S 100D $85.700 1,3225 € 113.335
> 
> Model 3 Base $35.000 1,4088 € 49.306
> Model 3 Long Range $44.000 1,3225 € 58.188
> 
> Premium $5.000 1,0600 € 5.300
> Paint $1.000 1,0500 € 1.050
> 19" wheels $1.500 1,0667 € 1.600
> EAP2 $5.000 1,0600 € 5.300
> FSD $3.000 1,0667 € 3.200


Allow me to ask a completely ignorant question. What does buying a Ford or a Chevy look like in the Netherlands and are your expectations different for Tesla?


----------



## MichelT3

Michael Russo said:


> OMG indeed.
> I think this can work for the options.
> 
> For the 'naked' car prices, they cannot afford to apply the same ratio as for Model S as they would price themselves out of the market!!


Especially since BMW 3 is priced from € 39.601


----------



## MichelT3

SoFlaModel3 said:


> Allow me to ask a completely ignorant question. What does buying a Ford or a Chevy look like in the Netherlands and are your expectations different for Tesla?


That's hard to compare. 
Fords are also build in Europe, mostly different models. US Ford models are hardly sold here. 
Chevrolets in Europe are Korean cars; GM sold the brandname to Daewoo.


----------



## Michael Russo

MichelT3 said:


> Especially since BMW 3 is priced from € 39.601


Michel, imagine you took the NL 330i price as reference, correct? If yes, that is €1.5k cheaper than in Belgium...!










In any case, it doesn't change the message that a base at €49k is insane (340i price). At least 10-15% too high...


----------



## MichelT3

No, BMW 318i with manual gears

My prices are including 21 % BTW/VAT/TVA/MWS


----------



## Michael Russo

MichelT3 said:


> Yes, BMW 318i with manual gears
> 
> My prices are including 21 % BTW/VAT/TVA/MWS


?? Yet you see that same car costs less than €31k, VAT included in Belgium?!?


----------



## SoFlaModel3

MichelT3 said:


> That's hard to compare.
> Fords are also build in Europe, mostly different models. US Ford models are hardly sold here.
> Chevrolets in Europe are Korean cars; GM sold the brandname to Daewoo.


Ahhh that's the distinction. Ok now it makes some sense!

Thanks!!


----------



## Michael Russo

TrevP said:


> *August 11 Model 3 Updates Specs, Details & Pricing*


Nice vid, Trev, thanks!!

On the topic of the base version roof exclusive of the Premium package, note posts #9, 10, 20 & 21 here...
https://forums.teslarati.com/threads/when-do-you-expect-your-model-3.4314/
Apparently some T≡SLA rep in CA claims the standard roof with a somewhat less sophisticated protection against UV & IR... As always to be taken with a grain of salt yet still an intriguing story. Particularly since I challenged the original poster to call again and the rep seemed to double-down...


----------



## SoFlaModel3

Michael Russo said:


> Nice vid, Trev, thanks!!
> 
> On the topic of the base version roof exclusive of the Premium package, note posts #9, 10, 20 & 21 here...
> https://forums.teslarati.com/threads/when-do-you-expect-your-model-3.4314/
> Apparently some T≡SLA rep in CA claims the standard roof with a somewhat less sophisticated protection against UV & IR... As always to be taken with a grain of salt yet still an intriguing story. Particularly since I challenged the original poster to call again and the rep seemed to double-down...


That really doesn't make sense. We're going to put glass above you and not protect you. I don't see it...


----------



## Michael Russo

SoFlaModel3 said:


> That really doesn't make sense. We're going to put glass above you and not protect you. I don't see it...


Not sure you could read details in his second post after he called back yet I was & remain skeptical too, although this 2 ft. section of (possibly dark colored/tinted) metal is also odd... One of the remaining mysteries until November../?!


----------



## MichelT3

Michael Russo said:


> ?? Yet you see that same car costs less than €31k, VAT included in Belgium?!?


Maybe because in The Netherlands for an ICE car we pay also a lot of car-tax (BPM) on top of the sales price. For a BEV that's 0. 
And then there are different taxes for use of the car... 
Even though we have an EU, car prices and taxation differs a lot over the different countries.


----------



## Michael Russo

TrevP said:


> After the Tesla delivery event my wife joined me in San Francisco where we spent a week exploring the city and Bay Area
> 
> Hope you enjoy!
> 
> Part 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Part 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Part 3


Thanks, Trev! Fun to watch as we were just there... but, boy, we clearly did not see half as much as what you guys did... nor do I believe we are as much either... . Let me guess, 3kg in the week?! 

Thx again for the fun evening/dinner together at the Italian Homemade restaurant... and for the great tip on the In-and-Out Burger (loved it, @Ryan !!)


----------



## Michael Russo

MichelT3 said:


> (...)
> Even though we have an EU, car prices and taxation differs a lot over the different countries.


Wow! Did not know the difference across the Moerdijk was that high!!


----------



## $ Trillion Musk

Michael Russo said:


> Nice vid, Trev, thanks!!
> 
> On the topic of the base version roof exclusive of the Premium package, note posts #9, 10, 20 & 21 here...
> https://forums.teslarati.com/threads/when-do-you-expect-your-model-3.4314/
> Apparently some T≡SLA rep in CA claims the standard roof with a somewhat less sophisticated protection against UV & IR... As always to be taken with a grain of salt yet still an intriguing story. Particularly since I challenged the original poster to call again and the rep seemed to double-down...


I do buy into Freddyraps' story. What I do recall was that no one from Tesla, not even Elon, had ever mentioned a metal roof for the Model 3. Elon had mentioned in a tweet or video (I don't recall where) that the glass roof was amazing. It also wouldn't make sense to include a metal roof if it were to complicate manufacturing and skew the headroom stats. Perhaps the only difference between standard and premium roofs is in fact the tinting.

If we all knew that the standard roof was all glass, some of us might have second thoughts about spending another $5k on the premium package. Tesla is being very sly about upselling and downselling lately!


----------



## Ryan

Hey Trev,

"Ride the Lighting"? How'd you know about my electrician podcast? 



TrevP said:


> After the Tesla delivery event my wife joined me in San Francisco where we spent a week exploring the city and Bay Area
> 
> Hope you enjoy!
> 
> Part 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Part 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Part 3


----------



## TrevP

Ryan said:


> Hey Trev,
> 
> "Ride the Lighting"? How'd you know about my electrician podcast?


Lol. Foiled again by my damn spell checker. I should just turn it off


----------



## skygraff

Safe Daddy Driver said:


> I do buy into Freddyraps' story. What I do recall was that no one from Tesla, not even Elon, had ever mentioned a metal roof for the Model 3. Elon had mentioned in a tweet or video (I don't recall where) that the glass roof was amazing. It also wouldn't make sense to include a metal roof if it were to complicate manufacturing and skew the headroom stats. Perhaps the only difference between standard and premium roofs is in fact the tinting.
> 
> If we all knew that the standard roof was all glass, some of us might have second thoughts about spending another $5k on the premium package. Tesla is being very sly about upselling and downselling lately!


I know that the specs are in flux (reference width changes this week) but, if you look at the press kit, it shows a difference in headroom which tells me the plan is a roof with a headliner on the standard:


Head room, standard: 39.6" front row, 37.7" second row
Head room, glass roof: 40.3" front row, 37.7" second row
.7" thicker roof or higher seats?


----------



## $ Trillion Musk

skygraff said:


> Head room, standard: 39.6" front row, 37.7" second row
> Head room, glass roof: 40.3" front row, 37.7" second row


Good find! I guess that does mean additional headliner with metal roof above the front seats. The glass roof is maintained in the rear, at least above the headrests.

Wouldn't it look weird though if both packages shared the same roof panel sizes, with the metal portion being so small, about the size of a sunroof?

Or they may enlarge the metal portion while shrinking the rear glass panel. But how then would the headliner bulge appear from the inside, second row?

EDIT: 0.7" thickness isn't much for a headliner.  I'm even more curious about the standard roof now.


----------



## MichelT3

Michael Russo said:


> Wow! Did not know the difference across the Moerdijk was that high!!


Totally off-topic, although a good illustration of the huge differences in Europe:

A little geographical correction. Even though our country is small, there still are significant differences.
The tax difference is already there 50 km to the south. At the border between Belgium and Netherlands. Belgium being the part of the Low Countries which didn't liberate itself from the Spaniards in the 80 years war.
"Moerdijk" (or "above or below the rivers") stands for the border between Catholicism and Protestantism and all associated cultural differences.


----------



## SoFlaModel3

@TrevP I don't take issue with the term mass market. In fact I would suggest entry level luxury segment and mass market can be synonymous.

While a Honda Civic is mass market, so to is a BMW 3 series.

They have different buyers, but they both have lots of buyers making them mass market.

I don't think Tesla aimed to trick or fool anyone with the term. They always said from day one it's a $35k car starting price and it would be very competitive at its starting price with no options.

Mass Market defined:



> the market for goods that are produced in large quantities."


Hard to say something that they will produce and sell in quantities of 250k-500k is anything but mass market by that definition.

It's certainly mass market for them, but I would say it's mass market for anyone.

Honda sold 366,927 Civics in the US last year...

Here's another definition:


> The term mass market refers to a large, undifferentiated market of consumers with widely varied backgrounds. Products and services needed by almost every member of society are suited for the mass market. Such items as electric and gas utilities, soap, paper towels and gasoline, for example, can be advertised and sold to almost anyone, making them mass market goods


Of course I would say if you go by that definition than an iPhone or a Honda Civic is not mass market because while type of good is needed (phones and cars) those specific products cannot be sold to almost anyone.


----------



## Michael Russo

SoFlaModel3 said:


> @TrevP I don't take issue with the term mass market. In fact I would suggest entry level luxury segment and mass market can be synonymous.(...)


SFM3, you bring up an interesting point from a semantics perspective...
However I am more on @TrevP 's side when he takes issue with the term 'mass market', not so much from a definition standpoint, yet because it will automatically in the minds of many create the _perception_ that it is _affordable for the masses_, which it isn't... By the way, the same can be said of the 3-Series, it is not for everyone out there...



SoFlaModel3 said:


> @TrevP (...)
> I don't think Tesla aimed to trick or fool anyone with the term. They always said from day one it's a $35k car starting price and it would be very competitive at its starting price with no options. (...)


I don't think T≡SLA wanted to trick anyone, that is true.
Yet, again, the issue is that, while, by the end of the year, you will theoretically be able to purchase a $35k Model 3, few are likely to, because most will almost automatically want is it only a few things extra... The same is valid for the Beemer btw. Who buys a 3-Series without any options (on this point remember that there are significant country differences in base equipment in the entry luxury segment, not just between world areas, yet even between EU countries - typically US cars come pretty much loaded as compared to what happens here...)??

In conclusion, Model 3 will ultimately be produced in _massive_ numbers (500k? 700k?).
Yet for masses of people around the world, as much as they'd like to get it, they're really going to have to wait for a similarly attractive, long range EV in the $15-25k price window...
I have no doubt that will come, by 2020+, and even though it may not originate in Palo Alto, T≡SLA will have for sure paved the way for the rEVolution!!!


----------



## SoFlaModel3

Michael Russo said:


> SFM3, you bring up an interesting point from a semantics perspective...
> However I am more on @TrevP 's side when he takes issue with the term 'mass market', not so much from a definition standpoint, yet because it will automatically in the minds of many create the _perception_ that it is _affordable for the masses_, which it isn't... By the way, the same can be said of the 3-Series, it is not for everyone out there...
> 
> I don't think T≡SLA wanted to trick anyone, that is true.
> Yet, again, the issue is that, while, by the end of the year, you will theoretically be able to purchase a $35k Model 3, few are likely to, because most will almost automatically want is it only a few things extra... The same is valid for the Beemer btw. Who buys a 3-Series without any options (on this point remember that there are significant country differences in base equipment in the entry luxury segment, not just between world areas, yet even between EU countries - typically US cars come pretty much loaded as compared to what happens here...)??
> 
> In conclusion, Model 3 will ultimately be produced in _massive_ numbers (500k? 700k?).
> Yet for masses of people around the world, as much as they'd like to get it, they're really going to have to wait for a similarly attractive, long range EV in the $15-25k price window...
> I have no doubt that will come, by 2020+, and even though it may not originate in Palo Alto, T≡SLA will have for sure paved the way for the rEVolution!!!


I agree and disagree, but would mostly say mass market in and of itself is a meaningless word ultimately. I suppose it's unfortunately vague. I do go back to thinking if 500,000+ people buy this car every year it is unequivocally mass market.

I don't think the issue is the wording of mass market so much as the incorrect expectations of consumers that they were getting a small Model S for $35k.

In another context, iPhones are most certainly mass market. They are also incredibly expensive phones that not everyone can afford to buy. I would call the entry level luxury segment of cars the same as the iPhone. It's mass market by volume, but it's expensive and out of reach for many just like a new iPhone.


----------



## Daliman

Model 3 will dominate the class in which it is sold in it's first year. It will likely move a lot of buyers, like me, into a class that they never even looked at before. It drops Teslas entry price by half. It has forced every major car maker to at least look at EV's. It is mass market but not affordable by all until Tesla fleet starts. We early adopters have to pay for the next giggafactory.

VW, BYD, Tata etc have capacity to make the sub 20000 EV for the masses. Tesla can't do it yet because they have such massive capital outlays to get going. In 10 yrs yes but by then there will be many EVs in that segment.


----------



## Badback

TrevP said:


> I don't use a web cam. I have a Sony 4K camcorder I normally use. The SLR has a flat color profile that gives it that look. Something I have to normally color correct on the Sony so I don't usually bother other than warning it up a bit.


Trevor, I enjoyed your SF vacation videos very much. Thanks for posting those. How much weight did you gain?
I'm on a diet right now and watching you eat all of that great food was pure torture. Tell your wife that she's cute.


----------



## TrevP

Badback said:


> Trevor, I enjoyed your SF vacation videos very much. Thanks for posting those. How much weight did you gain?
> I'm on a diet right now and watching you eat all of that great food was pure torture. Tell your wife that she's cute.


I know it looks like all we did was eat on the vacation but we didn't  SF is a real foodie city so we tried various things while we were there. We also walked, A LOT.

I'll let Bev know you think she's cute but her ego in that matter is already rather large. She know's it and plays to it


----------



## Daliman

Just finishing up 10 days in Texas. Great fun wonderful hospitality. Austin got to test drive a P100D Model X. Fun wow!!! Houston had lunch with 7 time astronaut. San Antonio river walk and cruise amazing. Finally sitting and catching up on Model 3. Thanks for the video Trev, very nice summary.


----------



## ReD eXiLe

Michael Russo said:


> SFM3, you bring up an interesting point from a semantics perspective...
> However I am more on @TrevP 's side when he takes issue with the term 'mass market', not so much from a definition standpoint, yet because it will automatically in the minds of many create the _perception_ that it is _affordable for the masses_, which it isn't... By the way, the same can be said of the 3-Series, it is not for everyone out there...
> 
> I don't think T≡SLA wanted to trick anyone, that is true.
> Yet, again, the issue is that, while, by the end of the year, you will theoretically be able to purchase a $35k Model 3, few are likely to, because most will almost automatically want is it only a few things extra... The same is valid for the Beemer btw. Who buys a 3-Series without any options (on this point remember that there are significant country differences in base equipment in the entry luxury segment, not just between world areas, yet even between EU countries - typically US cars come pretty much loaded as compared to what happens here...)??
> 
> In conclusion, Model 3 will ultimately be produced in _massive_ numbers (500k? 700k?).
> Yet for masses of people around the world, as much as they'd like to get it, they're really going to have to wait for a similarly attractive, long range EV in the $15-25k price window...
> I have no doubt that will come, by 2020+, and even though it may not originate in Palo Alto, T≡SLA will have for sure paved the way for the rEVolution!!!


I speak American Standard Idiomatic English as a sole language. Because of that, Elon Musk has always seemed to make it perfectly clear that to him _'mass market'_ refers to the quantity of units manufactured and sold, not the price point or market segment. Two passenger cars from General Motors, the Chevrolet CRUZE and MALIBU, are probably considered to be _'ordinary'_ or _'regular'_ cars by most people, and thereby, _'mass market'_ cars. But in both 2014 and 2015 the BMW 3-Series_ (369,470 and 331,013 units)_ outsold the MALIBU _(357,509 and 315,117 units)_ worldwide

I also like to point out the inherent failure involved with presuming an electric vehicle must cost a low amount, between $15,000 and $25,000 -- before it can be accepted by the public at large. The best selling _'cheap'_ new car in the U.S. is the Nissan Versa. But that car has historically been outsold by the BMW 3-Series, along with other cars that cost twice as much or more, for several years. Fact of the matter is that _'most people'_ actually wait for someone else to bear the burden of depreciation from the sale of new cars. Then they get the best deal they can on a used car that is _'NEW to THEM'_ instead. The result is that several million more used cars are sold each year than new ones, and that they average over 10 years old, and around $19,000 per unit. Tesla has no ten year old vehicles that cost under $20,000.

It can be successfully argued that so-called _'loss leader'_ vehicles that are _'cheap'_ to buy new do not become profitable until they are sold as used cars. The average sales price for new cars is over $33,000 -- and if that is the average, that means it is _'affordable'_ by default -- for people in search of a NEW car purchase. Over time traditional automobile manufacturers abandoned the sub-$5,000 and sub-$10,000 price points for new cars. Most have already abandoned the sub-$15,000 price point for new car sales. It is only a matter of time before they do the same with sub-$20,000 and sub-$25,000 cars as well.

It has become more important than ever before to consider the quantity of vehicles sold, because that determines the market share for a company. In around 1976 General Motors commanded about 53% of the U.S. market for vehicles. By 1985 that had dropped to only 35% market share. And in 2015 GM sales equivalent to only 17% of the new vehicles sold in the U.S. Sure, with over 3,000,000 units sold, they beat everyone else... But I'm sure they miss the market dominance they once held... Because 53% of 17,500,000+ units is a lot more than 17% of that quantity.

The majority of the arguments about what _'most people can afford'_ have no bearing whatsoever on those who are in the market for new cars. Once someone decides they will buy new, they have already decided to pay more. And if Tesla cannot be allowed to sell new cars profitably because they are _'too expensive for most people'_ then why is there any legitimacy offered to all the rest who do, like Acura, Alfa Romeo, AUDI, BMW, Cadillac, Chrysler, Infiniti, Jaguar, Lexus, Lincoln, or Mercedes-Benz? And, such arguments overlook entirely that the price of new cars is continually moving upward. There is a Chevrolet commercial where they are showing off one of their SUVs and proudly proclaim that it 'starts at' $24,000 -- while not pointing out to interested individuals that the version of the car they are looking at is over $36,000 -- a 50% increase, to start. The BMW 3-Series starts below $35,000 but can be equipped with around $60,000 in options to exceed $95,000 -- yet so many complain about the Tesla Model 3 in current top trim costing less than $60,000.


----------



## TrevP

*2018 VW E-GOLF Test drive*


----------



## Bokonon

Nice review. As a current e-Golf driver, I can vouch for the car's status as something of a hidden gem among the first generation of EVs. In many ways, it's a Leaf that drives, handles and (some might argue) looks a lot better. The heated windshield in particular is immensely useful in the winter, and also comes in handy during garden-variety fall/spring rainstorms when there tends to be more moisture in the cabin than normal... unlike the Volt that preceded it, in my e-Golf, I don't think I've ever had activate the main defroster during a cold rain, which can help you eke out a few extra miles when needed. I'm also a big fan of the adjustable regen system, since I tend to prefer more regen at city speeds and less regen when cruising on the highway.

One thing I'll add since you didn't really have a chance to punch the accelerator: the pickup is very good from 0-30 mph -- I've read that it beats the GTI in this measurement -- but the acceleration quickly tapers off from there, which is how you end up with a 0-to-60 in the mid-9s. Somewhat due to this tuning, I've found that when I drive in "Normal" mode and sharply accelerate from a standstill, the low-rolling-resistance tires will spin if they are not pointed straight ahead. This creates something of a problem if you are stopped at an intersection and need to make a right turn onto a busy main road with a higher speed limit, because your instinct is to stomp on the accelerator, when in reality what you *should* do with this car is to baby it through the first half of the turn. Driving in "Eco" mode (as I typically do) virtually eliminates this issue, though.

All said, I've been very pleased with my e-Golf, and would recommend test-driving one to anyone who's considering a Leaf or similar commuter/city EV. Even my wife (whose reactions to my EV-related equips and facts range from an eye-roll to a gentle pat on the head followed by a change in topic) has had a pretty good time with it. Will it hold a candle to the Model 3? Not a chance... but it has served us well as a bridge to Tesla ownership.


----------



## garsh

A friend of mine at work owns an e-Golf.

On Friday, it decided to stay locked onto the charging station at work. He couldn't disconnect it. I don't understand why some companies feel that the car should lock onto the J1772 plug. But his car was still stuck there on Monday. Thankfully, Nissan doesn't do this. I hope Tesla doesn't lock onto it either.


----------



## TrevP

*Autopilot Clarified for Model 3 reservation holders*


----------



## ReD eXiLe

garsh said:


> A friend of mine at work owns an e-Golf.
> 
> On Friday, it decided to stay locked onto the charging station at work. He couldn't disconnect it. I don't understand why some companies feel that the car should lock onto the J1772 plug. But his car was still stuck there on Monday. Thankfully, Nissan doesn't do this. I hope Tesla doesn't lock onto it either.


It is the typical argument for all locking systems at work here. Do you prefer to fail _'SAFE'_ or fail _'SECURE'_...? A high end alarm system might fail safe, so that when there is a loss of power, everything opens. Or, it might instead fail secure, so that when there is a loss of power, everything that was locked stays locked, and anything that was unlocked, gets locked. Most security systems can be set to do what you want them to...

In the case of publicly charging vehicles at a single connection point, with short range vehicles, where someone might plug in for hours at a time at Level 1 or Level 2 chargers, even beyond the point where they are _'full'_... it might be prudent to fail safe, without a locking mechanism, so that if someone else with a short range vehicle comes along, they can unplug your car, get a bit of charge for themselves, as much as they need, then plug your car back in.

With a Tesla, using _'proprietary'_ charging systems such as the Supercharger or Destination Chargers, there are often multiple charging points per site, and Superchargers work rather quickly anyway, so it isn't as necessary to be able to unplug one car for the convenience of another.

So, the locking mechanism is there for two main reasons: 1) Safety; and 2) Prevention. The safety factor is mainly one of making sure nothing is accidentally disconnected from the car while the circuit is active. The prevention point is mainly to keep honest people honest, that is to lessen the likelihood of either mischievous or malevolent actions by others. There are, unfortunately, some people who would simply unplug a Tesla -- not to charge their own car -- but out of spite or jealousy.

In their minds, they would be _'teaching you a lesson'_ by inconveniencing you. There are already such people who do things like that to cars like the LEAF that do not lock the charging handle to the car. People of this sort decide that people who purchase either fuel efficient or fully electric cars _'think too much of themselves'_ and therefore must be _'brought down a peg or two'_. Unfortunately, such myopic bullying behavior continues well beyond high school for people who are never _'taught a lesson'_ themselves. Strange thing is, they would be the first ones to use buzzwords such as _'entitled'_ to describe those who drive electric cars. They are ill equipped themselves to note their own sense of entitlement to force their perspective upon others.

Some people are just ICEHOLES.


----------



## tfederov

Trevor, thank you for your video on how to install the wall connector. I just purchased one myself and got the 24' since it and the 8' were the same price in case my wife ever wants to go with a Tesla in the future. This way it'll go across the garage and the chances of us both needing to charge at the same time will be very rare. It was very useful and alleviated some of the concerns I had before going in. It'll also be a good reference when my electrician comes to show some of the caveats.


----------



## ng0

TrevP said:


> *Autopilot Clarified for Model 3 reservation holders*


Thanks so much for the informative video TrevP! Definitely answered some of my questions. One of my big questions lately which apparently even the people that called me from Tesla the other day didn't know is: Since it's just a software upgrade, do you get taxed on the cost of autopilot when you purchase the car? That's a pretty good chunk of money for a $5K-$8K upgrade! If the answer is yes, do you get taxed on it if you upgrade later for $6K? Last question is, do they still charge you $6K if you take delivery and literally upgrade to EAP a day later?

Thanks so much!


----------



## TrevP

You'd have to pay tax on any software unlock do you after you take delivery. There's no avoiding the tax man. 

As for the last question you'd have to ask Tesla.


----------



## $ Trillion Musk

TrevP said:


> You'd have to pay tax on any software unlock do you after you take delivery. There's no avoiding the tax man.
> 
> As for the last question you'd have to ask Tesla.


In New Jersey EV purchases are tax exempt. However if I buy the software upgrade separately would the tax exemption still apply if not bundled with a car purchase?


----------



## ng0

TrevP said:


> You'd have to pay tax on any software unlock do you after you take delivery. There's no avoiding the tax man.
> 
> As for the last question you'd have to ask Tesla.


Thanks for the reply! That's really unfortunate. I read that purchasing software updates usually aren't required to be taxed (at least in California). Might be a gray area because it's a feature on a car, but I bet they could get away with not taxing the consumer on these features.

http://www.caltax.org/CustomSoftwareSalesTaxExemption.pdf

According to that site it says customer computer programs are not taxable, but canned or prewritten software programs are unless they're electronically delivered. Since this is electronically delivered, I'm assuming it shouldn't be taxed. I wonder if I can get Tesla to look into this?


----------



## John

Software is taxed like hardware. Your example was for "bespoke" custom software, as if someone performed programming as a service rather than a stock product. 

Even if you move to a state with no sales tax or use a payment method with a billing address in a tax-free state, the $1000 upcharge on post-delivery purchases kinda trumps any 5-9% saving on sales tax. So the ultimate savings would be to buy the car in a tax-free nexus.


----------



## ng0

John said:


> Software is taxed like hardware. Your example was for "bespoke" custom software, as if someone performed programming as a service rather than a stock product.
> 
> Even if you move to a state with no sales tax or use a payment method with a billing address in a tax-free state, the $1000 upcharge on post-delivery purchases kinda trumps any 5-9% saving on sales tax. So the ultimate savings would be to buy the car in a tax-free nexus.


According to the pdf I linked above, it says "In contrast to custom software "canned" or prewritten software programs are subject to tax, UNLESS THEY ARE ELECTRONICALLY DELIVERED".

Since all Tesla updates are electronically delivered, doesn't that mean that in California, autopilot should not be taxed?


----------



## John

I dunno. I called my local Tesla dealer, and they said it's all taxed. I have read reports from others online that their purchases were taxed. This is a state-by-state thing, of course.

I also found this on the California State Board of Equalization website (https://www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/embedded_software.htm):

*Embedded Software*

Computer software does not reside only in the desktop and laptop machines we use every day at home and in business. Increasingly, software is also _embedded_in all sorts of machinery and equipment. This latter form of software, which serves to control via computer chips processes that were once performed mechanically or manually, is called "embedded software."
In general, software is classified as nontaxable property. The one exception to this general rule is software that is considered a "basic operational program" or "control program." These terms refer to _a computer program that is fundamental and necessary to the functioning of a computer._
All other software (sometimes called _application software_) is nontaxable. But if the application software comes bundled with the computer hardware or other equipment at a single price _and_ the taxpayer does not provide the assessor with information that will enable the assessor to separately estimate its value, then the assessor may consider the total bundled price as indicative of the value of the taxable tangible property.
Since equipment vendors usually do not itemize the cost of the embedded software, and since taxpayers and assessors may lack the expertise to separately value the nontaxable software, the proper assessment treatment of equipment with embedded software has been problematic.
In recent years, the BOE has worked with assessors and taxpayer groups to move toward solutions to the problems involved with embedded software. All documents regarding this project are posted at www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/es.htm


----------



## ng0

John said:


> I dunno. I called my local Tesla dealer, and they said it's all taxed. I have read reports from others online that their purchases were taxed. This is a state-by-state thing, of course.
> 
> I also found this on the California State Board of Equalization website (https://www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/embedded_software.htm):
> 
> *Embedded Software*
> 
> Computer software does not reside only in the desktop and laptop machines we use every day at home and in business. Increasingly, software is also _embedded_in all sorts of machinery and equipment. This latter form of software, which serves to control via computer chips processes that were once performed mechanically or manually, is called "embedded software."
> In general, software is classified as nontaxable property. The one exception to this general rule is software that is considered a "basic operational program" or "control program." These terms refer to _a computer program that is fundamental and necessary to the functioning of a computer._
> All other software (sometimes called _application software_) is nontaxable. But if the application software comes bundled with the computer hardware or other equipment at a single price _and_ the taxpayer does not provide the assessor with information that will enable the assessor to separately estimate its value, then the assessor may consider the total bundled price as indicative of the value of the taxable tangible property.
> Since equipment vendors usually do not itemize the cost of the embedded software, and since taxpayers and assessors may lack the expertise to separately value the nontaxable software, the proper assessment treatment of equipment with embedded software has been problematic.
> In recent years, the BOE has worked with assessors and taxpayer groups to move toward solutions to the problems involved with embedded software. All documents regarding this project are posted at www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/es.htm


Thanks for doing some follow up research! I'm a software guy so I definitely understand the difference between embedded software and application software.  This really seems to be a gray area, but based on all this info I'm still thinking that Tesla does not need to tax the cost of EAP software after the purchase of the car. Since you get all the hardware and software with the car purchase and Tesla is only activating it, then theoretically they could sell the car, and allow you to upgrade to EAP within 24 hours (or any other arbitrary amount of time) of taking receipt and would not have to tax you. The fact that Tesla is taxing people in California doesn't mean they have to.


----------



## Michael Russo

TrevP said:


> *Autopilot Clarified for Model 3 reservation holders*


Thanks, Trev, very useful as always... Totally made me comfortable about delaying my choice of EAP in view of more urgent priorities like LRB, the 19'' GAW (goodlooking alloy wheels... ), the Premium package as well as, of course, my favorite color!!


----------



## TrevP

*I try Smart Polish Pro waterless car wash/wax. What do I think?*


----------



## Michael Russo

TrevP said:


> *2018 VW E-GOLF Test drive*


Great of you to share these, Trev, thank you. It's funny how you say that what's nice about this car is that it looks like a normal Golf... 
While for many indeed this could be a good thing, for me it has the exact opposite effect...
Though this latest generation goes in the right direction, it has always turned me off to see how little the car design has evolved over its >30 years existence... square, boxy are words that come to mind... Mainly it screams 'practical' which I understand again is one of the reasons it continues to sell well.

Aesthetics are a very personal thing, I know. (No offense to Bev, by all means! )


----------



## TrevP

*September 1 2017 Model 3 Updates*


----------



## TE3LA

TrevP said:


> *September 1 2017 Model 3 Updates*


Wishing your father a safe and quick recovery @TrevP . You can tell him we're looking forward to that Model x test drive video!!


----------



## Michael Russo

TE3LA said:


> Wishing your father a safe and quick recovery @TrevP . You can tell him we're looking forward to that Model x test drive video!!


@TrevP , right by you and your Dad in these challenging times. Praying for the best possible outcome to this surgery!


----------



## Michael Russo

TrevP said:


> *September 1 2017 Model 3 Updates*


Minor build to Trev's newest release, in case you are in a RHD market, the delivery estimate of late 2018 mentioned in the video applies to 'international' LHD markets (i.e. outside US) only. RHD estimates show 2019 at this point.

Understandable omission on Trev's part since he obviously had more important things on his mind.


----------



## skygraff

My thoughts are with you and your father.

A few fleeting notions center on you getting a pleasant surprise about the Model 3 before the Lincoln lease lapses; maybe a well connected benefactor will trade reservation slots like someone else we know who digs white vs black (in that case, exterior).


----------



## Rick59

Hope your father's surgery goes well.
I'm in a similar boat as you with respect to getting a Model 3 late next year or a Model X soon.
I'm a full-sized 71-year old with a fused back so I am nervous about entry/exit in the 3. If it isn't a good fit, we will go for the X.
However, if the HST gets removed on EVs, we will jump right in. Hopefully, we will get good news soon.
P.S. Love the bag! I may ask you to do a Model X bag ...


----------



## TrevP

Thanks for the well-wishes everyone. Good news, everything went well and he's expected to make a full recovery  Whew! We were worried there.


----------



## Badback

I think that I speak for everyone on this forum when I wish your father a speedy and safe recovery and many more years of healthy and fun filled life.


----------



## TrevP

*We take a look at the EVAnnex Road Trip Charging Kit for Model S/3/X*


----------



## $ Trillion Musk

@TrevP good to know that your dad will have a full recovery! Looking forward to seeing that test drive video with him.


----------



## Daliman

Hey Trev so glad to hear your dad is doing well. Glad to know "whats in the box" is such a fantastic kit. One of the main questions I get is what do I do if I am in the middle of nowhere? Now we know, to steal a phrase. Definitley will be getting one.


----------



## JWardell

Thanks for the unboxing of the road trip kit. Certainly all logical items to have on a trip. As with many of their other items, the $500 price is shocking though, as well as $100 per adapter. I will probably just make my own. The Tesla aftermarket will have to make an adjustment now that the majority of customers will no longer be folks with bottomless bank accounts.


----------



## Skione65

@TrevP,

You really choked me up at the end of your update video. Lost my Father Feb. last year and it really hit me. Please know you and your Dad are in my prayers DAILY....for a successful and healthy operation and recovery. I'd LOVE to see you two "Grinning ear-to-ear" Father and Son in that X test drive video. Thank you for bringing us 'into the fold' because YOU are FAMILY to us and have now and always a special place in our hearts Trev. God Bless.

Ski


----------



## skygraff

Well, Trev, I thought congratulations were in order after seeing the title but knew you wouldn't go Midnight Silver even if you did bail.

Nice video and congrats to our bailing brother!


----------



## JWardell

Trev is trolling us! Well at least he didn't set a Tesla on fire.


----------



## TrevP

*2017 Drive Electric Week*


----------



## TrevP

*Model 3's HVAC System Explained*


----------



## TrevP

*Is Tesla Switching to Intel? *


----------



## TrevP

*2017 BMW i3 Test Drive
*
*



*
P.S. Stick around for the 23:00 minute mark for some Model 3 tidbits...


----------



## John

So how did the i3 drive compared to the Model 3?


----------



## TrevP

John said:


> So how did the i3 drive compared to the Model 3?


Both are peppy (3 is quicker though). Both are quality cars


----------



## Charlie W

Hmmm. The "2017 BMW i3 Test Drive" video that Trev posted 2 days ago seems to be "unavailable." Well, that's disappointing.


----------



## FunkyJunk

Here it is:


----------



## John

Everybody relax. I talked to Trevor and he said everyone's accounts will automatically be converted to i3ownersclub.com. None of your discussions will be lost, though they won't make as much sense as they used to.


----------



## Badback

John said:


> Everybody relax. I talked to Trevor and he said everyone's accounts will automatically be converted to i3ownersclub.com. None of your discussions will be lost, though they won't make as much sense as they used to.


Is there a kit to change the embroidery on my jacket?


----------



## Skione65

John said:


> So how did the i3 drive compared to the Model 3?


@John,

I see what you did there!!! Trying to get @TrevP, to post his Model 3 Test drive vid ahead of 'schedule'!!! I'm in!!!
(Grabs Popcorn and waits impatiently)!

Ski


----------



## TrevP

Model 3 Owners Club Show Episode 24. The big elephant in the room


----------



## skygraff

Not to complain or call you out, Trev, but, in this episode, you guys seem to be suggesting your coming video was somehow a leaked rumor. Unless I'm completely off my rocker, you were the source of all rumors I heard about that video. Now, you may be playing the crafty PR game (spreading rumors then denying them just to build demand) but I prefer to think better of you and hope you just misspoke or forgot.

All that being said, if you wait until public delivery, there's a good chance some of your info will be outdated as Tesla makes modifications. The bulk will be accurate but you may have to make edits or add in CG note explaining differences. Personally, I'd rather see your version of broad strokes (honoring NDA protected specifics) ASAP rather than those other videos we all know need additional research.

Okay, you asked us to stop asking so I'll wait patiently. Maybe Tesla will roll out their own walk around/delivery videos about the same time as yours.

Thanks for all you do!


----------



## giarC71

skygraff said:


> Not to complain or call you out, Trev, but, in this episode, you guys seem to be suggesting your coming video was somehow a leaked rumor. Unless I'm completely off my rocker, you were the source of all rumors I heard about that video. Now, you may be playing the crafty PR game (spreading rumors then denying them just to build demand) but I prefer to think better of you and hope you just misspoke or forgot.
> 
> All that being said, if you wait until public delivery, there's a good chance some of your info will be outdated as Tesla makes modifications. The bulk will be accurate but you may have to make edits or add in CG note explaining differences. Personally, I'd rather see your version of broad strokes (honoring NDA protected specifics) ASAP rather than those other videos we all know need additional research.
> 
> Okay, you asked us to stop asking so I'll wait patiently. Maybe Tesla will roll out their own walk around/delivery videos about the same time as yours.
> 
> Thanks for all you do!


 Most Youtubers call this Click Bait. Why even mention it in the title. I'm disappointed.


----------



## Michael Russo

giarC71 said:


> Most Youtubers call this Click Bait. Why even mention it in the title. I'm disappointed.


I know Trev and Ken well enough to know that this sort of thing is the furthest motivation from their mind when they put together any video.

They have gone - and will continue to go - to extremes to get informative & insightful information yet will not do anything to that could inconvenience existing owners. I am convinced they will do the right thing and issue the video as soon as everything is kosher...

Stay tuned... the light is visible at the end of the tunnel... never forget we're closer now than ever...


----------



## Daliman

I totally agree. I have talked to Trev and Ken on a number of occasions. They never say so but it is clear thsy are sacrificing huge amounts of their own time to try to provide us with a service. True they really enjoy the exchanges they have and like any of us take pride in a job very well done. 

I know what this is about and will continue to keep silent about the specifics. What is coming will be light years ahead in quality and depth of content than what we have seen from other sources. Thanks guys as always for all the hard work on our behalf.


----------



## NRG4All

Daliman said:


> I totally agree. I have talked to Trev and Ken on a number of occasions. They never say so but it is clear thsy are sacrificing huge amounts of their own time to try to provide us with a service. True they really enjoy the exchanges they have and like any of us take pride in a job very well done.
> 
> I know what this is about and will continue to keep silent about the specifics. What is coming will be light years ahead in quality and depth of content than what we have seen from other sources. Thanks guys as always for all the hard work on our behalf.


I agree, and let's not forget that what Ken and Trevor are doing is not a life's work. There will come a time after hundreds of thousands of Model 3's are on the road where the blogging about the car will slowly decrease. Very little will be undisclosed by that time. That's why I value Ken and Trevor's dedication to spend so much time and energy on something that eventually will fade.


----------



## skygraff

As a volunteer junky myself, I have nothing but the utmost respect for Trevor and Ken's dedication to this passion project that is M3OC. My comments were not intended to undermine that or the decision made regarding the video.

The only thing that bothers me about this video that will make everything else pale in comparison is the off handed remark suggesting some other party was feeding the flames. Like Tesla themselves, take all the time you need to make it available to the public but don't publish a press kit and then claim the concepts therein are outside rumors; come to think of it, that might be a new Tesla tradition (just don't call it fake news).

As always, thank you so much for everything you do! My day would be empty without your insights and content.


----------



## TrevP

*November 2 2017 Model 3 Updates*


----------



## TrevP

*Watch my friend, a BMW owner, drive a Model S for the first time then check out the Model X*


----------



## TrevP

*The configurator emails are going out!!! *


----------



## TrevP

*Our first long(ish) trip in our Tesla*


----------



## Michael Russo

TrevP said:


> *Our first long(ish) trip in our Tesla*


Great to see you happy, Trev! 

Dumb question maybe, yet the ending, after only what appeared to me to be a little longer than 5', seems a bit more abrupt than you probably intended, no?

Edited... video not available... you probably noticed yourself...


----------



## TrevP

I just reuploaded the video, YouTube cut off about 6 minutes of it, WTF.


----------



## Michael Russo

TrevP said:


> I just reuploaded the video, YouTube cut off about 6 minutes of it, WTF.


Thanks, much better.... we could not miss the objective assessment of the e-Golf aficionado!!


----------



## TrevP

*A no-drilling licence plate bracket for your Tesla*


----------



## SoFlaModel3

TrevP said:


> *A no-drilling licence plate bracket for your Tesla*


This is Model X only, right? I know S comes with a no drill front plate bracket and was 99% sure 3 does as well.

Odd that X requires drilling...


----------



## ng0

SoFlaModel3 said:


> This is Model X only, right? I know S comes with a no drill front plate bracket and was 99% sure 3 does as well.
> 
> Odd that X requires drilling...


I definitely heard that the Model 3 had a no drill front license plate bracket. I really hope I won't have to put one on.


----------



## TrevP

Model 3 and the facelift Model S definitely have licence plate holders that do not require drilling. Model X for some reason still has the old style.


----------



## Mike

TrevP said:


> *A no-drilling licence plate bracket for your Tesla*


Awesome piece of kit.

Is the metal used (or treated/finished in such a manner) such that once the paint finish is pitted from sand/salt pellets, it does not rust?


----------



## Mike

TrevP said:


> *A no-drilling licence plate bracket for your Tesla*


Trevor, one other question: is the vampire drain because it is cold or because it is always on and communicating with your smart phone? I'm just trying to get a feel for parking a Model 3 at Pearson for 14 days at a time in mid winter. Thanks.


----------



## TrevP

Mike said:


> Trevor, one other question: is the vampire drain because it is cold or because it is always on and communicating with your smart phone? I'm just trying to get a feel for parking a Model 3 at Pearson for 14 days at a time in mid winter. Thanks.


Vampire drain is a combination of systems running all the time and remote connections. No matter what do you do you will get some. I've read that if you plan on leaving the car for a vacation unplugged in the cold you should turn off remote access (and don't check the car with the app while away), enable energy savings and do a good top up charge.

We're going to Florida next month for 10-11 days out of Niagara and I'm not sure if we'll take the X or the gas car to the airport


----------



## TrevP

*Model 3 Road Trip hits Toronto!*


----------



## ng0

TrevP said:


> *Model 3 Road Trip hits Toronto!*


Great video! Looks painfully cold but I'm glad some people up there got to see the car. I really liked the interview with him. I was curious about why he was doing it too. It's obviously not about making money. Just getting winter tires and shipping his other ones probably cost more than what he's making on test drives.


----------



## Paul Spiers

TrevP said:


> Vampire drain is a combination of systems running all the time and remote connections. No matter what do you do you will get some. I've read that if you plan on leaving the car for a vacation unplugged in the cold you should turn off remote access (and don't check the car with the app while away), enable energy savings and do a good top up charge.
> 
> We're going to Florida next month for 10-11 days out of Niagara and I'm not sure if we'll take the X or the gas car to the airport


Hey Trevor, I just reviewed a TeslaBjorn video from 2014. He left his P85D for 27 days in December in Norway when Wifey and Bjorn went to Thailand.
When he returned he had lost 20% charge, he had charged to 90% before he left. Not sure how cold it was while he was gone, but the parking lot was not heated.
I would think that the WhiteKnight would be fine for 11 days, worst case scenario you would lose 20%, best case may be 10%.
There are Charge Point DC fast chargers located at the airport, so if you needed some juice to get to a supercharger, you're covered.


----------



## SoFlaModel3

Paul Spiers said:


> Hey Trevor, I just reviewed a TeslaBjorn video from 2014. He left his P85D for 27 days in December in Norway when Wifey and Bjorn went to Thailand.
> When he returned he had lost 20% charge, he had charged to 90% before he left. Not sure how cold it was while he was gone, but the parking lot was not heated.
> I would think that the WhiteKnight would be fine for 11 days, worst case scenario you would lose 20%, best case may be 10%.
> There are Charge Point DC fast chargers located at the airport, so if you needed some juice to get to a supercharger, you're covered.


I think we see worse vampire drain now than in 2014 in cold environments because there is better tech in the car protecting the battery from getting too cold and that takes energy to run.


----------



## Mike

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I think we see worse vampire drain now than in 2014 in cold environments because there is better tech in the car protecting the battery from getting too cold and that takes energy to run.


.....and without watching the video, I must assume Björn put the car to sleep and didn't bug it, via any app, for the time he was away.

In the last three days I have come to the conclusion that if you park the vehicle, unplugged, for anything more than 24 hours, just turn the car off and don't bug it until you come home from your journey. ....


----------



## Paul Spiers

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I think we see worse vampire drain now than in 2014 in cold environments because there is better tech in the car protecting the battery from getting too cold and that takes energy to run.


True the vampire drain would be higher today with the current battery protection software. That is why I think for 11 days a 20% loss would probably be close compared to 20% for 27 days in Norway, which would have similar temperatures to the Canadian climate. Also, it would be better to put it in sleep mode to minimize the drain.


----------



## TrevP

*Range loss in the bitter cold*


----------



## Mike

TrevP said:


> *Range loss in the bitter cold*


Trevor, awesome executive summary, thanks for this.

Observation: You You has really not had much luck with "timely" supercharging because the battery pack seems too cold, even after just arriving at a supercharger from a two hour highway drive.

Question: With the (assumed) cost cutting techniques employed for Model 3 battery heating, added to what we are (anecdotally) seeing, would you be able to ask your contacts if Model 3 will simply have "slower" supercharging rates in very cold weather compared to Model S/X?

Thanks. Cheers.


----------



## KennethK

TrevP said:


> *Range loss in the bitter cold*


Hi @TrevP, that was a lot of great information.

When you got into the vehicle with the snowflake on the battery it was noted by David and Erik, Daerik, that the snowflake icon disappears while there is an occupant in the vehicle. Once the occupant leaves, the icon reappears. Just an FYI.


----------



## TrevP

*A close look at a Model 3 competitor*


----------



## Mike

TrevP said:


> *A close look at a Model 3 competitor*


Ahhhhh, "HVAC".......I thought the first time you said that you said, "8-track"

Perhaps it was just subliminal on my part.

When I first saw the dash on the prototype TM3 in April of 2016, it's Scandinavian minimalist ethos was alot to digest.

Fast forward 21 months and suddenly that Audi instrument cluster looks dated, like Disney World's _The World of Tomorrow _circa 1982.


----------



## garsh

TrevP said:


> *A close look at a Model 3 competitor*


Does Canada not require backup cameras in all cars yet? It's a requirement in the states now.

It does look like the A4 should include a 360° camera standard in Canada.
https://www.audi.ca/ca/web/en/model.../build-price.mediathek_infolayer.MKSUKA6.html


----------



## Ken Voss

TrevP said:


> *A close look at a Model 3 competitor*


I recently sold my 2015 Audi S5 which has even more buttons, dials, switches and gauges and interior bling than the A4. It was a beautiful car but I am Soooooo looking forward to the M3 with its minimalist design. I am at a point in my life where less is more.


----------



## Mike

Ken Voss said:


> I am at a point in my life where less is more.


Same here.......


----------



## TrevP

garsh said:


> Does Canada not require backup cameras in all cars yet? It's a requirement in the states now.
> 
> It does look like the A4 should include a 360° camera standard in Canada.
> https://www.audi.ca/ca/web/en/model.../build-price.mediathek_infolayer.MKSUKA6.html


It's not a law here like the US but we tend to trail legislation by about 2 years so we expect this to be in place around 2020.


----------



## Michael Russo

Ken Voss said:


> (...) I am at a point in my life where less is more.


I'm at the same point. Yet would build on it by saying I'm each day more at a point where one less day waiting for Midnight S≡R≡NITY is more pleasure in anticipation!!


----------



## MichelT3

Michael Russo said:


> I'm at the same point. Yet would build on it by saying I'm each day more at a point where one less day waiting for Midnight S≡R≡NITY is more pleasure in anticipation!!


Then you're in for a lot of pleasure, since it has become clear that our waiting time has increased with 180-360 days...


----------



## TrevP

*Evelyn PFC Educates us on Paint Protection Film and Ceramic Coatings*


----------



## $ Trillion Musk

TrevP said:


> *A close look at a Model 3 competitor*


Thank you for reviewing a true Model 3 competitor (that's not like a Chevy Bolt or Nissan Leaf).


----------



## TrevP

*BlackVue Dashcam install in a Tesla Model X *


----------



## mdfraz

Hey Trev-

I know and totally respect that this is your site, but is there any way for us to not have your posts pinned to the top of the "new posts" threads? When I'm trying to catch up on new messages every couple days I'm having to scroll down past this thread every single time. It's a small thing to complain about, I know, but in the aggregate it does slow things down when trying to read through the voluminous posts.

Or maybe this is something that only happens to me.....

Edit: After I posted on this thread, it disappeared from the top of my "new posts" list. Disregard my last, please.


----------



## garsh

mdfraz said:


> Hey Trev-
> 
> I know and totally respect that this is your site, but is there any way for us to not have your posts pinned to the top of the "new posts" threads? When I'm trying to catch up on new messages every couple days I'm having to scroll down past this thread every single time. It's a small thing to complain about, I know, but in the aggregate it does slow things down when trying to read through the voluminous posts.
> 
> Or maybe this is something that only happens to me.....
> 
> Edit: After I posted on this thread, it disappeared from the top of my "new posts" list. Disregard my last, please.


I think you're experiencing a bug. I have that happen sporadically (usually happens when @TrevP is last to post to a thread for some reason). I think the workaround I found was to explicitly press the "Mark Forums Read" button.


----------



## Bokonon

garsh said:


> I think you're experiencing a bug. I have that happen sporadically (usually happens when @TrevP is last to post to a thread for some reason). I think the workaround I found was to explicitly press the "Mark Forums Read" button.


I've seen this behavior too from time to time (usually after a new post is moved, deleted, or otherwise hidden by a mod/admin) and can confirm that "Mark Forums Read" makes it go away. Give it a shot, @mdfraz.


----------



## mdfraz

Thanks to you both!


----------



## TrevP

*A Model 3 Gets Delivered! *


----------



## SoFlaModel3

TrevP said:


> *A Model 3 Gets Delivered! *


Hey I know that guy with the goofy Tesla grin


----------



## TrevP

*IT'S HAPPENING!!*


----------



## TrevP

*Canadian Model 3 Pricing (ESTIMATED)*


----------



## Sandy

Good videos Trevor, thanks. Could you possibly clarify your position on the NAFTA 6.1% duty? Your applying the same USD/CDN % to base price and same dollar value on options as the S and X (completely logical) to arrive at the CDN price. The CDN priced S and X however include 6.1% NAFTA duty and the 3 is not subject to that. To me logically the Loaded 3 with AWD at $83,000 CDN in your example should then be reduced by 6.1% to account for no NAFTA duty.


----------



## Michael Russo

Sandy said:


> Good videos Trevor, thanks. Could you possibly clarify your position on the NAFTA 6.1% duty? Your applying the same USD/CDN % to base price and same dollar value on options as the S and X (completely logical) to arrive at the CDN price. The CDN priced S and X however include 6.1% NAFTA duty and the 3 is not subject to that. To me logically the Loaded 3 with AWD at $83,000 CDN in your example should then be reduced by 6.1% to account for no NAFTA duty.


What I understood, Sandy, was that @TrevP 's position was that this savings for T≡SLA, if not leading to corresponding Can$ prices, represents a savings which T≡SLA banked on when announcing the US$ 35k base price.

Trev will confirm if I got it right for sure in your morning... Obviously, this is his _premise_ & things may turn out to be different... His overall logic on corresponding price levels seems sound though so you're probably paying it safe if you plan on the base of his numbers...

And looks like you'll know soon enough...


----------



## TrevP

Sandy said:


> Good videos Trevor, thanks. Could you possibly clarify your position on the NAFTA 6.1% duty? Your applying the same USD/CDN % to base price and same dollar value on options as the S and X (completely logical) to arrive at the CDN price. The CDN priced S and X however include 6.1% NAFTA duty and the 3 is not subject to that. To me logically the Loaded 3 with AWD at $83,000 CDN in your example should then be reduced by 6.1% to account for no NAFTA duty.


What I'm saying is that because the battery cells, which is what accounts for most of the foreign content of Model S, are made in Japan there is a NAFTA duty of 6.1% included in the price of the car that is passed along to the customer. It's buried but it's there.

Model 3 however is 75% North American content (battery cells made in the US) and thus the base cost of the car already reflects all of the savings from not having to pay for that extra 6.1%. Hope that makes sense. Basically the cost of the car already includes the savings from making the cells in NA and is thus exempt from the duty and we don't have an extra hidden cost.


----------



## Michael Russo

TrevP said:


> What I'm saying is that because the battery cells, which is what accounts for most of the foreign content of Model S, are made in Japan there is a NAFTA duty of 6.1% included in the price of the car that is passed along to the customer. It's buried but it's there.
> 
> Model 3 however is 75% North American content (battery cells made in the US) and thus the base cost of the car already reflects all of the savings from not having to pay for that extra 6.1%. Hope that makes sense. Basically the cost of the car already includes the savings from making the cells in NA and is thus exempt from the duty and we don't have an extra hidden cost.


Seems like I got you right...


----------



## tombar

TrevP said:


> What I'm saying is that because the battery cells, which is what accounts for most of the foreign content of Model S, are made in Japan there is a NAFTA duty of 6.1% included in the price of the car that is passed along to the customer. It's buried but it's there.
> 
> Model 3 however is 75% North American content (battery cells made in the US) and thus the base cost of the car already reflects all of the savings from not having to pay for that extra 6.1%. Hope that makes sense. Basically the cost of the car already includes the savings from making the cells in NA and is thus exempt from the duty and we don't have an extra hidden cost.


Are you saying even US prices for model X & S include 6% tariff because the batteries are made in Japan and that pushed NA content to low?


----------



## Rick59

Notwithstanding that Trev is right 99% of the time, I will almost disagree with him on this one. Tesla sets its US prices based on its costs; cheaper costs = lower selling price. The $35,000 US price for Model X reflects the lower cost of US-made batteries. As far as I know, NAFTA has zero meaning or impact for the US market. Additional duties only apply when selling to non-US customers. S and X attracts the NAFTA duty, the 3 will not. Since the NAFTA duty is included in the current conversion rate to CDN $, that conversion rate for the 3 should be less. HOWEVER, if the NAFTA duty is applied to US customers buying the S or the X, then Trev is 100% correct.


----------



## Sandy

TrevP said:


> What I'm saying is that because the battery cells, which is what accounts for most of the foreign content of Model S, are made in Japan there is a NAFTA duty of 6.1% included in the price of the car that is passed along to the customer. It's buried but it's there.
> 
> Model 3 however is 75% North American content (battery cells made in the US) and thus the base cost of the car already reflects all of the savings from not having to pay for that extra 6.1%. Hope that makes sense. Basically the cost of the car already includes the savings from making the cells in NA and is thus exempt from the duty and we don't have an extra hidden cost.


Thanks for replying Trevor. I fully understand the content explanation and the cells being manufactured in the US now at the GF. Where I'm having trouble is that there is no 6.1% duty built into the base US model S and X pricing on the US website. It's would be added along with the exchange to arrive at the CDN website pricing. Therefore when you used the multiplier of 1.2973 on the base model S and applied it to $74,500 to arrive at the CDN ptice of $95,650 it included the 6.1%.
If you then apply the same 1.2973 to the base model 3 $35,000 to arrive at CDN pricing of $45,500 it as well must still include the 6.1%. I'm having trouble seeing it any other way. Any comments?


----------



## TrevP

Read this bit from George Blankenship that used to be with Tesla about Canadian pricing.

Unless something has changed then the extra 6.1% is still buried in the cost. If you look at current rates and compare to the elective rate Tesla is using there are a few extra points in there

https://insideevs.com/64500-gets-you-a-model-s-in-canada-as-nafta-bumps-price/

Unless we see otherwise I believe the pricing Tesla will use is very very close to the effective rate they're using as Model S. We already know the options costs and they're doing 1.3


----------



## Sandy

TrevP said:


> Read this bit from Gerorge Blankenship that used to be with Tesla about Canadian pricing.
> 
> Unless something has changed then the extra 6.1% is still buried in the cost. If you look at current rates and compare to the elective rate Tesla is using there are a few extra points in there
> 
> https://insideevs.com/64500-gets-you-a-model-s-in-canada-as-nafta-bumps-price/
> 
> Unless we see otherwise I believe the pricing Tesla will use is very very close to the effective rate they're using as Model S. We already know the options costs and they're doing 1.3


Ok thanks Trevor. Here's to hoping we actually get to find out in the very near future! A May 2018 delivery would be very cool.


----------



## TrevP

*PSA: Teslas are not perfect*


----------



## TrevP

*Model 3 arrives in Canadian showrooms! We visit Yorkdale in Toronto to have a look.*


----------



## Michael Russo

TrevP said:


> *Model 3 arrives in Canadian showrooms! We visit Yorkdale in Toronto to have a look.*


Nice one Trev! 

Two things caught my attention:
1. The very clear confirmation that rear heated seats will be available soon via OTA 
2. The 'guest star' interview of our good forum (and Twitter!) friend @Daliman , who confirmed yet again we have more than one thing in common when he gave us his color choice (it is _*Midnight Silver*_ though... not 'gray'... )

Can't wait for Model 3 to make it to EU Stores. 4Q18/1Q19 most likely timing at this point, IMHO...


----------



## SoFlaModel3

TrevP said:


> *Model 3 arrives in Canadian showrooms! We visit Yorkdale in Toronto to have a look.*


I can attest to what @TrevP says in this video. I saw Model 3 in the Stanford Mall store a few weeks after they got it and could have sat in it indefinitely!


----------



## Daliman

Michael Russo said:


> Nice one Trev!
> 
> Two things caught my attention:
> 1. The very clear confirmation that rear heated seats will be available soon via OTA
> 2. The 'guest star' interview of our good forum (and Twitter!) friend @Daliman , who confirmed yet again we have more than one thing in common when he gave us his color choice (it is _*Midnight Silver*_ though... not 'gray'... )
> 
> Can't wait for Model 3 to make it to EU Stores. 4Q18/1Q19 most likely timing at this point, IMHO...


Hi Michael, while I thank Trev for my 15 sec I was a reluctant guest star. Kind of flubbed it as the camera came on "spontaeneously" and something else was happening in the background. Will never get a job as a spokesperson. Course it is Midnight Silver and yes still totally getting it not "grey". She is totally worth the wait.


----------



## Mike

Hi @TrevP,

I just watched your video regarding the EVIP and EVSE rebate programs for Ontario.

One observation regarding the EVSE rebate.

This observation is based on a telephone conversation I had with a person at the Ontario Ministry of Finance last week.

Although the timing for the EVSE rebate is formally tied to the age of the ESA inspection (must be within 90 days or less), one cannot apply for the EVSE rebate until one has received (past tense) the EVIP.

To quote the reply to confirm I understood what was being told to me, "You have to have 'cashed the check' for the EVIP before you can apply for the EVSE rebate".


----------



## Sitter_k

Sandy said:


> Thanks for replying Trevor. I fully understand the content explanation and the cells being manufactured in the US now at the GF. Where I'm having trouble is that there is no 6.1% duty built into the base US model S and X pricing on the US website. It's would be added along with the exchange to arrive at the CDN website pricing. Therefore when you used the multiplier of 1.2973 on the base model S and applied it to $74,500 to arrive at the CDN ptice of $95,650 it included the 6.1%.
> If you then apply the same 1.2973 to the base model 3 $35,000 to arrive at CDN pricing of $45,500 it as well must still include the 6.1%. I'm having trouble seeing it any other way. Any comments?


Or Tesla will just make an extra 6.1% selling cars in Canada


----------



## TrevP

Mike said:


> Hi @TrevP,
> 
> I just watched your video regarding the EVIP and EVSE rebate programs for Ontario.
> 
> One observation regarding the EVSE rebate.
> 
> This observation is based on a telephone conversation I had with a person at the Ontario Ministry of Finance last week.
> 
> Although the timing for the EVSE rebate is formally tied to the age of the ESA inspection (must be within 90 days or less), one cannot apply for the EVSE rebate until one has received (past tense) the EVIP.
> 
> To quote the reply to confirm I understood what was being told to me, "You have to have 'cashed the check' for the EVIP before you can apply for the EVSE rebate".


Thanks, I had forgotten about that tidbit. Too bad as many would like to get an EVSE in advance of the car but trying to time it is going to prove difficult.

Anyhow, the video is irrelevant now that the EVIP has changed completely


----------



## Sandy

Sitter_k said:


> Or Tesla will just make an extra 6.1% selling cars in Canada


They could but I doubt it. They are higher than the 'hard' exchange rate but that handles the minor fluctuations. If new levels are sustained they re-price. Will be interesting to compare when CDN prices are released. Using across the board S percentages I figure a fully loaded LR AWD 3 will be just over $80k CDN. Before tax and any potential rebate.


----------



## Sandy

TrevP said:


> Thanks, I had forgotten about that tidbit. Too bad as many would like to get an EVSE in advance of the car but trying to time it is going to prove difficult.
> 
> Anyhow, the video is irrelevant now that the EVIP has changed completely


Time for a new vid 

I did a 200 amp panel upgrade and wire run on a 40amp breaker to a 14-50 already on my dime just to be ready for the UMC when the car arrives. I cut a deal with the contractor to return after delivery, swap the 40 amp for a 60 amp breaker, install a install the WC and give me an ESA certificate at that time. At least the WC and that electrical work/certificate will be claimable. Fingers crossed.


----------



## TrevP

*Autopilot 2018.10.4 Testing
This is a huge update!*


----------



## Dogwhistle

Wow, you all have some straight, straight, STRAIGHT roads around there! Not much of a test of the turn-taking capability, but great to see the improvements!


----------



## TrevP

*Model 3 is available to order in Canada!*


----------



## Mike

TrevP said:


> *Autopilot 2018.10.4 Testing
> This is a huge update!*


@TrevP, I wonder, the next time you drive those same off ramps what the reaction of your autopilot system will be. Does the system learn from it's mistake when it's the 2ND time on a "new for the system " road?


----------



## TrevP

Mike said:


> @TrevP, I wonder, the next time you drive those same off ramps what the reaction of your autopilot system will be. Does the system learn from it's mistake when it's the 2ND time on a "new for the system " road?


Not that I could tell at this point. I'll keep doing the same route for future testing. That's the only way to be sure


----------



## TrevP

*EVs at Kitchener City Hall*


----------



## TrevP

*We attend the Toronto Green Living Show*


----------



## TrevP

*Model X front trunk exploration & some preventative maintenance*


----------



## garsh

Gilberto Pe-Curto said:


> and what about this one ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I saw it full...
> It's long but not Boring....(upsss )


There's a whole thread dedicated to discussing that particular video:

Autoline after hours Tesla model 3 tear down discussion


----------



## Gilberto Pe-Curto

garsh said:


> There's a whole thread dedicated to discussing that particular video:
> 
> Autoline after hours Tesla model 3 tear down discussion


Thanks @garsh

Deleted!


----------



## Gilberto Pe-Curto

What about this one ?
Any comments on this ?


----------



## Michael Russo

Gilberto Pe-Curto said:


> What about this one ?
> Any comments on this ?


Understand he's one of the main T≡SLA shorts; of course he's entitled to his opinion, yet I almost feel kinda sad thinking about the amount of money he's bound to loose, as well as all those who follow his advice as TSLA goes through the roof as of sometime in the 2nd semester of this year


----------



## Gilberto Pe-Curto

I know he is...
I was expecting comments related to Executive Departures...


----------



## Michael Russo

Gilberto Pe-Curto said:


> I know he is...
> I was expecting comments related to Executive Departures...


I think those are blown out of proportion. Noticeable yes, showstoppers for sure not...


----------



## Bokonon

Michael Russo said:


> I think those are blown out of proportion. Noticeable yes, showstoppers for sure not...


Agreed. Executive departures have been a steady occurrence at Tesla for years... and in each case, the show has gone on.


----------



## Dr. J

Chanos: "Besides, Mars doesn't have an extradition treaty with the U.S." What the....


----------



## LUXMAN

Gilberto Pe-Curto said:


> What about this one ?
> Any comments on this ?


Self Serving and CNBC gave him a platform. Guess they need to make some content.

At other automakers the execs leaving is just a footnote in the company newsletter. Just because its Tesla it makes the news.

I love this guys comment ..."Porsches coming".....SO???... I still don't see a production vehicle that is "faster" or should I just say I don't see a production vehicle? This guy goes out and lists all these manufactures with Electric cars coming...VW, BMW, Audi....We have yet to see any one produce anything. I think we will see VW with something. Jaguar soon in limited numbers. Maybe we will see Hyundai and KIA in a couple years, but this guy is so desperate for his short its obvious.

Se ELON is leaving?  I'll be making sure to vote my shares to keep him at the meeting in June


----------



## Gilberto Pe-Curto

Dr. J said:


> Chanos: "Besides, Mars doesn't have an extradition treaty with the U.S." What the....



I did not get that because I'm not native english speaker...


----------



## Dr. J

Gilberto Pe-Curto said:


> I did not get that because I'm not native english speaker...


I am a native English speaker, and it doesn't help.  I suppose it's a twisted reference to Enron and Valeant. A passive-aggressive way to suggest Tesla is a fraud without coming out and saying it.


----------



## Gilberto Pe-Curto

just sharing with you guys a different perspective about the Munro analysis on Model 3.
Seems that Sandy Munro does not know why the M3 has added weight on the body, but this guy knows.
Impressive numbers...
Just listen to some 5 mins from here


----------



## SoFlaModel3

Join us tomorrow night for the first M3OC podcast live on YouTube!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/992145404580921345


----------



## TrevP

*First Model 3s arrive in Toronto!*


----------



## TrevP

* First Model 3 Delivery in Canada! *


----------



## TrevP

*Model 3 in Montreal!* Thanks to @EvotoRentals and @NYKChannel for hosting the gathering


----------



## TrevP

*An Electric Motorcycle! *


----------



## JWardell

Are you saying you're a pilot as well @TrevP ?
Hopefully I'll have something interesting for you to fly next year..


----------



## TrevP

JWardell said:


> Are you saying you're a pilot as well @TrevP ?
> Hopefully I'll have something interesting for you to fly next year..


Yes, I used to fly as a hobby. Here's the plane I built from 2004-2006


----------



## TrevP

*We got another Tesla!*


----------



## TrevP

*NEW VIDEO: HOLY COW! Toronto, Brace Yourself!! *


----------



## John

TrevP said:


> *NEW VIDEO: HOLY COW! Toronto, Brace Yourself!! *


Did you guys estimate how many?


----------



## TrevP

John said:


> Did you guys estimate how many?


Over 300 of them I reckon. More arriving daily


----------



## LUXMAN

TrevP said:


> *NEW VIDEO: HOLY COW! Toronto, Brace Yourself!! *


That's ALLOTA Aero wheels 
You and your snow!


----------



## TrevP

*We have a tittle fun checking out the new X1 Explorer electric scooter and go for a ride with Jason Pase *


----------



## TrevP

*WhiteKnight is back! Just a quick update on why I had a loaner for a week. Spoiler: no big deal  *


----------



## TrevP

*2 Geeks pick up a Model 3*


----------



## Bokonon

+1 for the delivery documentation, +10 for the ski-slalom action, and +1000^:rocket: for the Rube Goldberg machine!


----------



## TrevP

*HUGE Model 3 Meetup in Toronto!*


----------



## Love

TrevP said:


> *HUGE Model 3 Meetup in Toronto!*


That was a cool work lunch watch, thanks for posting @TrevP ! Looks like everyone had an amazing time! I doubt I'd get much of a gathering if I were to try that locally! How far is Toronto from me? Ah, I see... 10 hours. That bumps me down to a ... MAYBE for your next get together.


----------



## TheTony

Lovesword said:


> I doubt I'd get much of a gathering if I were to try that locally! How far is Toronto from me? Ah, I see... 10 hours. That bumps me down to a ... MAYBE for your next get together.


If you ever want to coordinate one in the upper midwest, I might consider it. I'm just a state away 

We're already trying to hold a few informal ones in my area. However, there's just don't seem to be too many owners in my area yet, at least not on the forums I frequent. So it'll probably just be a handful of folks, for now.


----------



## JWardell

TrevP said:


> *HUGE Model 3 Meetup in Toronto!*


Impressive turnout, and great drone shots!
This gets me excited for attending meet ups again with fun cars and enthusiastic owners.


----------



## TrevP

*A 6 month update on our Tesla*


----------



## Derik

What to watch first.. Trev's 6 month update or Doug Demuro's Bugatti Chiron video.

I'm going with the 6 month update.


----------



## TrevP

*Charging at 120 Volts? Not fun... *


----------



## TrevP

*Detailing your Tesla*


----------



## TrevP

*Happy Canada Day music video. Let's have a bit of fun! *


----------



## TrevP

*Improve your Model 3 Brakes & Suspension*


----------



## TrevP

*Jeda wireless charging pad for Model 3 review. Subscribe to our YouTube channel for a chance to WIN ONE! *


----------



## TrevP

*Tesla Road trip to Quebec and Vermont*


----------



## TrevP

*3D Printing for fun or necessity?*


----------



## TrevP

* Elon Musk Signature Wall Connector*


----------



## TrevP

*A Model3 Meetup in Burlington Ontario*


----------



## TrevP

*Electric Mountain Bike Review*


----------



## TrevP

*First ride in a Performance Model 3*


----------



## TrevP

*Nomad Tesla Model 3 Wireless Smartphone Charging Pad Review*


----------



## TrevP

@Mad Hungarian finally gets his @tesla Performance #Model3 !


----------



## TrevP

*How fast can a Performance Model 3 really go? We break the 0-60 record!*


----------



## TrevP

*EVAnnex All-season Tesla floor mats review*


----------



## TrevP

*First look at Tesla version 9 software*


----------



## Todd E. Robert

TrevP said:


> *EVAnnex All-season Tesla floor mats review*


Trevor, where is the link for the discount code, please


----------



## TrevP

Todd E. Robert said:


> Trevor, where is the link for the discount code, please


It's in the video description but it's OWNERSCLUB


----------



## TrevP

*Testing the Tesla software 9 dashcam and autopilot at night*


----------



## TrevP

*White console wrap on a Performance Model 3*


----------



## TrevP

*Testing the @tesla software 9 dashcam and autopilot in daylight*


----------



## TrevP

*BlackVue & Tesla V9 dashcam faceoff*


----------



## TrevP

*How many cameras is Tesla version9 using?*


----------



## garsh

TrevP said:


> *How many cameras is Tesla version9 using?*


You should also show the rear camera display when you have tape over it, so that we can see exactly how opaque that tape is.


----------



## TrevP

garsh said:


> You should also show the rear camera display when you have tape over it, so that we can see exactly how opaque that tape is.


Totally obscured, looked like snow with a green tinge


----------



## TrevP

*Cold weather and your Model 3*


----------



## TrevP

*Tesla Mac App review. Control your Tesla from your Mac!*


----------



## TrevP

*How to get outdoor WIFI for your Tesla*


----------



## TrevP

*Gettin' ready for winter*


----------



## TrevP

*I have to drive this for a day?*


----------



## TrevP

*You asked to see it... A failed product review*


----------



## TrevP

*Windows stuck in the winter? *


----------



## TrevP

*Touchscreen Protector Review*


----------



## TrevP

*Tesla Track Mode in the Snow*


----------



## TrevP

*How to prevent window fogging*


----------



## TrevP

*Let's talk about protecting paint*


----------



## TrevP

*Happy Holidays!*


----------



## TrevP

Just so you know, making a video sometimes involves multiple takes, a giggly wife and an uncooperative cat. 
Have a laugh at our expense 🤣


----------



## TrevP

*Front trunk luggage for Teslas review *


----------



## TrevP

*Tesla Service Talks Canada. Your service questions answered by Tesla themselves!*


----------



## TrevP

*Is fit and finish on a German car better than Tesla?*


----------



## TrevP

*Removing blue jean transfer from Tesla white seats*


----------



## TrevP

*3D Printed Model 3 Seat Lock Review *


----------



## TrevP

*FIRST JEDA WIRELESS CHARGING PAD 2 UNBOXING!*


----------



## TrevP

*From -20C to 26C in 3 hours*


----------



## TrevP

*Winter range loss after 11 days*. What happens if you don't charge in the winter during a polar vortex?


----------



## TrevP

*A Roadtrip to Kennedy Space Center*


----------



## TrevP

*2019 Canadian International Auto Show report. *
We attend the 2019 Canadian International Auto show to see how the EV space is coming along. We look at the new Kia Soul and Niro as well as the Audi e-Tron, Jaguar i-Pace and a few more cars.


----------



## TrevP

*Model 3 Standard interior details revealed! *
What we know about the standard interior of the #Tesla #Model3


----------



## TrevP

*Mercane Widewheel Scooter unboxing *
Let's take an initial look at a dual motor electric scooter!


----------



## TrevP

*Model Y Reveal Date has been announced!*


----------



## TrevP

*Ceramic coating your Tesla seats. Yes you CAN do it and it's not hard *


----------



## TrevP

*BIG FAIL Sentry Mode on Model X*


----------



## TrevP

*Sean from All Things EV did an interview with me*


----------



## $ Trillion Musk

TrevP said:


> *Sean from All Things EV did an interview with me*


Regarding the S/X refresh Franz VH gave us a clue months ago stating that he was working on the S everyday. Don't remember which video/audio but it was from one of his few interviews. Does anyone else recall?


----------



## TrevP

*Tesla firmware 2019.8.5 with auto lane changes! *


----------



## TrevP

*Mercane Wide Wheel Scooter What's It Like? *


----------



## TrevP

*Canadian Federal EV Rebate program announcement*


----------



## TrevP

*Model 3 Qualifies! Canadian Incentives*


----------



## Airboss

So, if I order the Dual Motor, does it qualify for the $5,000 because the base price of the car $47,600 cad?

Thanks


----------



## Robert

No - Dual motor doesn't qualify
http://www.tc.gc.ca/en/services/road/innovative-technologies/zero-emission-vehicles.html


----------



## TrevP

*Xrack Cargo Carrier For Teslas*


----------



## TrevP

*Pro Tip for Preventing Curb Rash*


----------



## TrevP

*My rim is like brand new!*


----------



## TrevP

*The Joy of Car Shows*


----------



## TrevP

*My Dad Drives Our Tesla*


----------



## TrevP

*EVs first to cross new Montreal Champlain Bridge!*
*



*


----------



## TrevP

*How to change the cabin filter in the Model S or X*


----------



## TrevP

*First look at the new @getjeda USB hub for the Tesla Model 3! Have your prayers been answered??*


----------



## TrevP

*Model 3 Canadian Summer Meet Up*

Link:


----------



## TrevP

*Has this Model X problem been cured?*


----------



## TrevP

*Interview with TesLatino*
Fellow Tesla YouTuber and president of the South Florida Tesla Owners Club Rafael Santoni joins me to talk about his Tesla journey. Hope you enjoy!


----------



## TrevP

*Fast EV01 Wheel Efficiency Testing*


----------



## TrevP

*Meet Fabian Paint Protection Guru*


----------



## JWardell

Huge congrats to @TrevP for FINALLY joining the party!!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1176257834566242306


----------



## TrevP

*Farewell Model X*
We say adieu to WhiteKnight and hello to P3D


----------



## Dr. J

JWardell said:


> Huge congrats to @TrevP for FINALLY joining the party!!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1176257834566242306


Does that mean we can go back to the old site name?


----------



## TrevP

*How to disable the Tesla Pedestrian Warning System*


----------



## TrevP

*My favorite Model 3 accessories.*
I've been monitoring and collecting some of my fave items so here they are. Enjoy!


----------



## TrevP

*In depth look at Tesla V10!*


----------



## TrevP

Friend and fellow YouTuber Sean Mitchell from All Things EV joins me on a ride along to the Porsche Taycan event earlier in September. We talk about Tesla, Porsche, Rivian and more!


----------



## TrevP

Tesmanian Model 3 Cooler review. Is this the premium cooler people have been waiting for? It's pretty "cool" 😂❄


----------



## JWardell

TrevP said:


> Tesmanian Model 3 Cooler review. Is this the premium cooler people have been waiting for? It's pretty "cool" 😂❄


I don't think you mentioned it in your review...will the cooler fit in the trunk? Even if smooshed a little?


----------



## TrevP

JWardell said:


> I don't think you mentioned it in your review...will the cooler fit in the trunk? Even if smooshed a little?


It showed it quickly at the end, yes it fits perfectly in the rear trunk well and you can slide the cover on top. It will NOT fit in the front trunk however.


----------



## JWardell

TrevP said:


> It showed it quickly at the end, yes it fits perfectly in the rear trunk well and you can slide the cover on top. It will NOT fit in the front trunk however.


I typed FRUNK then autocorrect changed the whole point of my question!


----------



## TrevP

I'm pissed about all the morons keying Teslas so I decided to do something about it. Retweet, share etc... get the word out, make it go viral. Enjoy


----------



## TrevP

*OMG this car is siiick!*


----------



## TrevP

*Smart Summon Party!?*


----------



## TrevP

*INSTALL A HITCH FOR YOUR TESLA MODEL 3*


----------



## TrevP

*Tesmanian floor mats for Model 3, any good?*


----------



## TrevP

*HANSSHOW POWERLIFTGATE FOR MODEL3*


----------



## TrevP

*Mods I've done to 3 at Last




*


----------



## TrevP

I get this question all the time: how do I setup Sentry Mode/Dashcam on my Tesla along with music on a solid state drive.

*Setting up an SSD for your Model 3*


----------



## TrevP

Join me and Matti Haapooja on 5 reasons to buy a Tesla Model 3 !‬

‪


----------



## TrevP

*Smart Summon in the snow?*


----------



## TrevP

*Tesla 2019.36.2.1 Update Features*


----------



## TrevP

*White center console alternative?*


----------



## TrevP

*Cold weather tips for your Model 3 ‬*

‪


----------



## TrevP

*I GOT A 2020 ROADSTER!*


----------



## TrevP

*Tesla Cybertruck Reveal Event*


----------



## TrevP

*The Cybertruck is brilliant*


----------



## TrevP

*Tesla is changing data in our cars*


----------



## TrevP

*Going from a Model X to a Model 3 I answer your questions*


----------



## TrevP

*Tesla 2019.40.50 Texting and voice commands*


----------



## Dr. J

TrevP said:


> *Tesla 2019.40.50 Texting and voice commands*


Quite enjoyable, Trev!


----------



## TrevP

*Tesla Voice Commands Web App*


----------



## TrevP

*Drivealong with Tesla Backseatballer*


----------



## TrevP

*Frozen Tesla Charge Port !*


----------



## FRC

This "frozen" episode rarely applies to us southerners, but I'm curious. Do you know what %SOC you burn in a 1 hour defrost?


----------



## TrevP

FRC said:


> This "frozen" episode rarely applies to us southerners, but I'm curious. Do you know what %SOC you burn in a 1 hour defrost?


About 1% if you hang off the battery. Since I'm on shore power it pulled from that


----------



## TrevP

*Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector Winner or Dud?*


----------



## TrevP

*A car tray for your Tesla?*


----------



## TrevP

*1600 Miles in a Tesla 24 hour Road Trip*


----------



## garsh

TrevP said:


> *1600 Miles in a Tesla 24 hour Road Trip*


Aw man, you should have told me you were going to be stopping at Franklin Park PA.
That's just a few miles from me.


----------



## TrevP

*EVs and Tea 2020*


----------



## TrevP

*Coast to Coast EV Roadtrip Part 1*


----------



## TrevP

*A Ride Around Stanley Park*


----------



## TrevP

*Not Skiiing in Whistler BC ?*
Nope, I don't ski but doesn't mean I can't show you the ski capital of North America, it's beautiful !


----------



## TrevP

*Interview with Peter Levey*
You know him as model3man on YouTube, he tells me about his Model 3 experience and what it's like to combine his photography and music passions


----------



## TrevP

*CANADA Coast to Coast in 73 Hours! UNCUT TIMELAPSE*





*CANADA Coast to Coast in 73 Hours! 5 Minute TIMELAPSE*


----------



## TrevP

*Canada **#FastEVLightingRun Coast to Coast in 73 Hours. Join us on a fantastic voyage across Canada in an EV.*


----------



## TrevP

*Model Y's secret trick*


----------



## TrevP

*50th Birthday give-away!*


----------



## SP's Tesla

Happy birthday! 

Sean


----------



## TrevP

*LEGO Display Dilemma. *
I finally finished my LEGO Millenium Falcon but how do it display it properly and keep the dust off?


----------



## TrevP

*Tesmat Review & Camp Mode*


----------



## TrevP

*Painting a front lip spoiler*


----------



## TrevP

*Front Lip Spoiler Install*


----------



## JWardell

@TrevP I'm *really* impressed in how that spoiler turned out. That matte black paint job is awesome! I can't believe it was done with a spray can!


----------



## TrevP

Thanks. I discovered a long time ago that spray nozzle tech had advanced and the main company that uses it is Dupli Color. I always get fantastic results with their cans but prep work is critical too.

For anyone curious, I have indeed built planes in the past. This was the last one I built , a Zenair 601


----------



## JWardell

TrevP said:


> Thanks. I discovered a long time ago that spray nozzle tech had advanced and the main company that uses it is Dupli Color. I always get fantastic results with their cans but prep work is critical too.
> 
> For anyone curious, I have indeed built planes in the past. This was the last one I built , a Zenair 601
> 
> View attachment 33189


Plane building, Duran Duran cover band, you've done it all!


----------



## TrevP

*OMG what have I done to my Tesla!?*


----------



## TrevP

*Tesla Software 2020.12.5 Review*


----------



## TrevP

*Best Vacuum For Car Detailing*


----------



## JWardell

TrevP said:


> *Best Vacuum For Car Detailing*


This reminds me of Mega Maid 

It feels like the Vac'N'Blo has been around forever, but I had no idea they had so many different models!
How painfully loud is it?

Love the new intro!


----------



## TrevP

I had a hard time sorting out the models but after spending several hours comparing I narrowed it down the the VNB4AFBR because it was small, wall mountable and hard the right mix of accessories, not to mention I found a local distributor that had stock in Canada at a more reasonable price than ordering from the US and suffering currency exchange and taxes.

Surprisingly it's not loud at all, unfortunately that's not something I could really show on video, maybe with a decibel meter but again that means nothing unless you know what 36 or 55db really sounds like. Let's just say it way less noisy than any of my shop vacs, you could talk to someone beside you without shouting.

Thanks, glad you like the new intro. It was something I've been wanting to freshen up for a long time.

P.S. You need to do a video and talk about your HUD project.... I'm waiting!


----------



## JWardell

TrevP said:


> Let's just say it way less noisy than any of my shop vacs, you could talk to someone beside you without shouting.


That's exactly the perfect noise comparison I'm looking for 
I might need to consider getting one, though I still like my quick-dry method of flooring it a few exits up the highway 

PCB are being made as we speak, once I have something built and ready to show, I will certainly be making videos! Maybe ~2 weeks...


----------



## garsh

TrevP said:


> *Best Vacuum For Car Detailing*


My kid really liked the new intro.


----------



## TrevP

*FIRST LOOK Tesla Zero-G wheels*
The new Tesla Zero-G wheels are here and we test them out!


----------



## TrevP

*Is this the best bike rack for your Tesla?*


----------



## TrevP

*🚦Autopilot (2020.20.13)Tesla Stoplight and Stop Sign Control!*


----------



## TrevP

*WE TOOK OUR TESLAS TO THE TRACK!*


----------



## TrevP

*How to install lowering springs for the Tesla Model 3 Unplugged Performance DIY*


----------



## SP's Tesla

TrevP said:


> *WE TOOK OUR TESLAS TO THE TRACK!*


So cool! I'm a big fan of Matti's! Glad to see you guys connected!

Sean


----------



## TrevP

*The Tesla Model Y is the best Tesla EVER !*


----------



## TrevP

*The world's only fully electric Lotus Evora!*


----------



## JWardell

TrevP said:


> *The world's only fully electric Lotus Evora!*


There's lots of cars I would love to own electrified, but I think half the pleasure from the Evora is its soundtrack...
Who am I kidding, I'm jealous as hell of @MountainPass 's collection


----------



## TrevP

*Massive 3D Printed SpaceX Dragon Crew !*


----------



## TrevP

*Don't scratch your Tesla glovebox or else...*


----------



## SP's Tesla

TrevP said:


> *Don't scratch your Tesla glovebox or else...*


This seems to be a consistent complaint with the M3 and MY. I'm surprised Tesla hasn't offered a solution (replacement glovebox panel maybe?) yet...

Sean


----------



## garsh

SP's Tesla said:


> This seems to be a consistent complaint with the M3 and MY. I'm surprised Tesla hasn't offered a solution (replacement glovebox panel maybe?) yet...


I've put scratches on the glovebox of several vehicles I've owned. It's not really a Tesla-specific issue.


----------



## TrevP

*We Test Drove a Tesla During a Pandemic **🦠😷*


----------



## TrevP

*Church of Tesla - Vacation Vlog*


----------



## TrevP

*S3XY Drag Race - Behind the scenes with Throttle House*


----------



## TrevP

*I got a Porsche Taycan 🚀🚗*


----------



## iChris93

TrevP said:


> *I got a Porsche Taycan 🚀🚗*


You have to open the charge port manually?!?
For $5 USD, I'd still take one.


----------



## TrevP

Weekend trip to our swimming hole and we see this?


----------



## TrevP

*Jeda Tesla products update*
Jeda has updated their wireless charging pad and USB hub for Teslas.


----------



## TrevP

*How to change your Tesla Model 3 cabin filter*


----------



## TrevP

*Teslas Smoke on the track at Circuit Mont Tremblant in Quebec*


----------



## TrevP

*Tesla Battery Day, only the best parts*


----------



## TrevP

*Tesla Model 3 Performance after 1 Year | all my mods & accessories*


----------



## TrevP

*Model 3 Invades Circuit Mont Tremblant race track*


----------



## JMON

TrevP said:


> *Teslas Smoke on the track at Circuit Mont Tremblant in Quebec*


THIS was one of my most favorite videos you guys have ever done :thumbsup: I'd put this right behind your cross country trip for awesomeness ! Ian did a great job of keeping it smooth and using the whole track in expert fashion - he made it look easy. Magneto's mods all seem to come together quite nicely on the track and my question for @Mad Hungarian is what's the next mod ???

& P.s. we need MORE tire comparo videos !


----------



## Mad Hungarian

JMON said:


> THIS was one of my most favorite videos you guys have ever done :thumbsup: I'd put this right behind your cross country trip for awesomeness ! Ian did a great job of keeping it smooth and using the whole track in expert fashion - he made it look easy. Magneto's mods all seem to come together quite nicely on the track and my question for @Mad Hungarian is what's the next mod ???
> 
> & P.s. we need MORE tire comparo videos !


Thanks!!
That's an interesting question, I was absolutely sure I was going to find the factory suspension to be the next weak link in the chain.
But I have to say that really wasn't the case, it worked much better than I expected and on a complex, high speed track like Tremblant with all of its elevation changes and quirks that's saying a lot. Now certainly keeping an 18" diameter with a (relatively) taller sidewall helps as it's somewhat more compliant and aids in not overloading the relatively soft OE springs and shocks.
What I did discover is that the car desperately needs more front camber. Being that I was running a much wider 265/40 I wasn't expecting them to roll under and wear as unevenly as they did in front, but it's clear that the sub-1-degree OE front camber setting is a real buzzkill for serious track work.
So next up will be @MountainPass 's awesome Corkscrew adjustable front upper control arms. The quick-adjust shim system, allowing one to have the best of both worlds, is brilliant...
https://www.mountainpassperformance.com/product/mpp-model3-fuca/


----------



## TrevP

*TESLA FULL SELF DRIVING 2020.40.8.12*
A look at the latest FSD release 30320.48.8.12 with our friend Rafael.


----------



## FRC

TrevP said:


> *TESLA FULL SELF DRIVING 2020.40.8.12*
> A look at the latest FSD release 30320.48.8.12 with our friend Rafael.


Tried to click, got the message "Video unavailable This video is private"


----------



## TrevP

FRC said:


> Tried to click, got the message "Video unavailable This video is private"


Try it again, I had to replace the video due to a technical difficulty


----------



## JMON

TrevP said:


> *TESLA FULL SELF DRIVING 2020.40.8.12*
> A look at the latest FSD release 30320.48.8.12 with our friend Rafael.


I'm an eager beaver  I got the message:
"We're processing this video - check back later"


----------



## TrevP

*Has Model Y quality improved? *
You've heard the horror stories... now that it's been a few months, has the quality of the Model Y improved? You'll be surprised


----------



## TrevP

*2021 Model 3 Refresh First Look!*
We take a look at the brand new #Refreshed #2021 #Model3 and find all the differences. Yes it has the HEAT PUMP!


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## TrevP

*🚦 TESLA FULL SELF DRIVING BETA 2020.44.15.4 WOW!*


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## TrevP

*🚦 TESLA FULL SELF DRIVING BETA 2020 44 15 4 Wild Ride in the City of Sunrise Rush Hour*


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## TrevP

*FIRST LOOK! Tesla Software 2020.48.26 aka: "Holiday update"*


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## SP's Tesla

Hope we can add custom sounds to the Horn, Driving, and Summon modes at some point! Would love to have a Knight Rider sound for Summon...

Happy holidays, Trev!

Sean


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## TrevP

SP's Tesla said:


> Hope we can add custom sounds to the Horn, Driving, and Summon modes at some point! Would love to have a Knight Rider sound for Summon...
> 
> Happy holidays, Trev!
> 
> Sean




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1342865122969182209


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## TrevP

*Elon Musk on Clubhouse Interview*


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## TrevP

*🚀 I 3D Printed a massive SpaceX Starship!*


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## TrevP

*I got a CCS adapter for my Model 3! Yes, it's real but there's a catch...*
Watch here 👇


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## SoFlaModel3

TrevP said:


> *I got a CCS adapter for my Model 3! Yes, it's real but there's a catch...*
> Watch here 👇


Happy that supercharging + J1772 (hotels/longer stay entertainment) covers all of my travel needs!


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## skygraff

Love your vids and glad you're monetized but could barely watch the CSS, er, CCS one since the first ad happened before you even finished the intro and there were, I think, 3 other breaks. Hope that makes up for you putting your car at risk on such tests and I thank you for doing something a lot of us wimps (skin flints) won’t try until proven.

Fortunately, as you say, the supercharger network is great in NA.


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## SoFlaModel3

skygraff said:


> Love your vids and glad you're monetized but could barely watch the CSS, er, CCS one since the first ad happened before you even finished the intro and there were, I think, 3 other breaks. Hope that makes up for you putting your car at risk on such tests and I thank you for doing something a lot of us wimps (skin flints) won't try until proven.
> 
> Fortunately, as you say, the supercharger network is great in NA.


If you watch a decent amount of YouTube content I highly recommend YouTube Premium. The content producers are paid for your view and you in turn have no ads.


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## TrevP

YouTube ads are kinda out of control. They’ve increased the number of them over the last year and short of removing them entirely I don’t have much control. YouTube premium has no ads so you might want to consider that.


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## skygraff

I appreciate the YouTube premium suggestions but, no, I don't consume enough to make it worthwhile. I also realize that the content creators have minimal to no control over ads.

Not complaining and happy if some of it gets in your pockets. Just saying the ads actually disincentivize casual viewers from watching more of your content, not because there are so many of them but because they are so badly timed. Not planning to ever get a CCS adapter but, because I was curious about the subject and because it was you, I was willing to sit through the early ads.

If YouTube ever asks you for feedback on the notion, you can certainly let them know that the timing (and number) of ads has resulted in fewer views which undermines the intent of selling those ads. Of course, you must get a lot of views for them to consider your vids prime ad revenue fodder; other content makers have far fewer ads than you.

Anyway, thanks again!


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## TrevP

*CCS adapter testing on different networks*


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## TrevP

*Exclusive first look! Jeda SSD Drive*


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## TrevP

*⚡ First Look ! Jeda Charging Tray*


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## TrevP

*Tesla Console covers with a twist*
I check out some new console covers that are better than vinyl and also have a special feature nerds are going to love!

Buy them in the US from Amazon.com 

Buy them in Canada from Amazon.ca


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## TrevP

*The ULTIMATE Cooler for your Tesla Model 3/Y*
Checking out the new CNCT cooler which I think is the ULTIMATE premium cooler for your Tesla Model 3/Y Buy yours today with the included $50 discount code TOO: https://cnctcoolers.com/discount/TOO


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## skygraff

TrevP said:


> *The ULTIMATE Cooler for your Tesla Model 3/Y*
> Checking out the new CNCT cooler which I think is the ULTIMATE premium cooler for your Tesla Model 3/Y Buy yours today with the included $50 discount code TOO: https://cnctcoolers.com/discount/TOO


Hey, Trev, nice video!

Absolutely agree with the choice to record that outside on such a beautiful day but, unfortunately, the natural light sometimes put you in shadow and messed with the auto-focus. Must've been a bear to edit.

It'll obviously hold all those cans but, since there's a bottle opener, might want to test it with bottles (and ice) for lid clearance if you ever decide to revisit the video. I'm also curious how well it cleans out (after ice melts) and if you have any leverage issues getting it out of the sub-trunk when full.

By the way, what do you think of the handles? 😁🤙


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## TrevP

*🚨 Why you should consider Paint Protection Film*


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## TrevP

*🛋 Giving my Tesla grandma's couch treatment*


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## TrevP

*🚴🏻‍♀️ We got an electric bike AND THIS HAPPENED…*


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## TrevP

*We got the new Mattel Cybertruck Toy and BROKE IT! 🛻*


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## TrevP

*Ford Mustang Mach-E First Impressions. I think they have a winner 🚗🏆*


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## TrevP

*Tesla FULL SELF DRIVING BETA 9 2021.4.18.12 First Impressions*


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## TrevP

*This Tesla needs an alignment ! 🚗*
We lowered our Tesla last year and forgot to do something pretty important


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## skygraff

TrevP said:


> *This Tesla needs an alignment ! 🚗*
> We lowered our Tesla last year and forgot to do something pretty important


Nice one! (sorry you had to do it)

Did you have any trouble finding an alignment shop that would touch a Tesla? Looks like they had it all down and weren't falsely concerned about the "technology" involved.

Without an Electrified Garage in Chicago, I'm having a hard time building my stable of mechanics to supplement/replace the SC; especially for wheel/brake work for which SC overcharges to keep the workload low.


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## TrevP

skygraff said:


> Nice one! (sorry you had to do it)
> 
> Did you have any trouble finding an alignment shop that would touch a Tesla? Looks like they had it all down and weren't falsely concerned about the "technology" involved.
> 
> Without an Electrified Garage in Chicago, I'm having a hard time building my stable of mechanics to supplement/replace the SC; especially for wheel/brake work for which SC overcharges to keep the workload low.


Not really, I just asked some of the people in the local Tesla Owners club and their name came up. I was looking for a shop that knew Teslas and wouldn't turn me away because of it.


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## evdude88

TrevP said:


> *Tesla FULL SELF DRIVING BETA 9 2021.4.18.12 First Impressions*


very impressive


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## TrevP

*Tesla Software 2021.24.3 Car wash mode!*


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## TrevP

*Tesla Full Self Driving explained by Andrej Karpathy*


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## TrevP

*Tesla Robot Revealed*


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## TrevP

*Tesla's Project DOJO AI Chip Revealed*


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## TrevP

*Montreal had a huge electric vehicle show and we attended it. So much fun **🤗
Watch here: 




*


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## TrevP

*Is a yoke in a Model 3 as bad as you think it is? Let's find out...




*


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## Madmolecule

I’m glad you agree how natural the feel is. I would never go back. It is also surprising how much more visibility you get


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## TrevP

*Tesla Drive along with Moritz Holzinger*
A fellow Tesla owner and talented videographer from Italy visits us in Toronto. Let's go for a drive and talk Tesla, autopilot and whatever else comes to mind!


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## TrevP

*🏆 Guinness World Record SHATTERED!*


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## TrevP

*Tesla Model 3 Yoke Part Deux*
You asked for a followup so I shall deliver!


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## TrevP

*SEXY Buttons for your Tesla !*
Sometimes, you need a few buttons...


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## TrevP

*My computer setup then and now*
You guys asked to see what my setup is like but it just underwent a massive change


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## TrevP

*MOAH POWAR!*
I always need more storage, so I expanded my Synology with the DX517


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## TrevP

*Sandy Munro Plaid tour hits Montreal*
Sandy Munro of Munro and associates stops by in Montreal for a meetup


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## TrevP

*🎄FIRST LOOK! Tesla Software V11 aka: 2021 Holiday Update*
The latest Tesla software has been released, the long awaited Version11 also known as the 2021 holiday update. We take a deep dive into all the changes


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## TrevP

*Lucid Air First Impressions*


----------



## Power Surge

Trev, I just spend half the day watching all these awesome videos trying to learn everything I can about my incoming Model3 purchase. I love this site


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## TrevP

Power Surge said:


> Trev, I just spend half the day watching all these awesome videos trying to learn everything I can about my incoming Model3 purchase. I love this site


Thanks!


----------



## TrevP

*Road Trip to the Tesla Cyber Rodeo*


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## JMON

TrevP said:


> *Road Trip to the Tesla Cyber Rodeo*


Canada STRONG 💪🍁


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## TrevP

*Cyber Rodeo & Giga Texas Tour*


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