# Regen- Standard or Low? More Efficient or just Fun?



## Swoop (Nov 11, 2018)

Is using "Standard" regeneration that much more efficient than "Low?" My daily commute of 80 miles is on the highway and one pedal driving seems to be less smooth, using more brake lights, and potentially less "efficient" than just taking your foot off the pedal and coasting into the downhill turn or slowing down gradually vs. using "Standard" settings. I plan on comparing energy usage on the route using both but am curious as to what others think.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

I liken maximum regen to driving a manual transmission gas car and rowing through the gears to slow down. Once perfected, it's really smooth and saves your brakes!


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

Swoop said:


> Is using "Standard" regeneration that much more efficient than "Low?"


Standard will always put more energy back in the pack


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## Swoop (Nov 11, 2018)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I liken maximum regen to driving a manual transmission gas car and rowing through the gears to slow down. Once perfected, it's really smooth and saves your brakes!


Right...as someone who's highway commuted for 15+ years in a manual SAAB, Subaru, Porsche on the highway, I normally won't downshift to slow unless it's slippery or we're just having fun...brakes are cheap to replace...proper downshifting doesn't cause too much wear on the a clutch...this is my first none manual car and I seem to miss coasting to slow into traffic vs taking my foot off the accelerator and regen-ing to slow.


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## Swoop (Nov 11, 2018)

webdriverguy said:


> Standard will always put more energy back in the pack


I'd love to know percentage wise what "standard" compares to "low."


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## Ed Woodrick (May 26, 2018)

Just use standard....


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

Swoop said:


> Right...as someone who's highway commuted for 15+ years in a manual SAAB, Subaru, Porsche on the highway, I normally won't downshift to slow unless it's slippery or we're just having fun...brakes are cheap to replace...proper downshifting doesn't cause too much wear on the a clutch...this is my first none manual car and I seem to miss coasting to slow into traffic vs taking my foot off the accelerator and regen-ing to slow.


When did you take delivery? I would say it took me 1-2 days to get used to the regen, though I had good seat time in a Model S before my Model 3. For my wife, it took a few weeks before she had it down nicely.


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> When did you take delivery? I would say it took me 1-2 days to get used to the regen, though I had good seat time in a Model S before my Model 3. For my wife, it took a few weeks before she had it down nicely.


It took me few days as well. My teammate rode with me in my car and she immediately refused to ride with me again because of the regen and she kept saying you drive too fast


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## RoBoRaT (Nov 24, 2018)

Swoop said:


> I'd love to know percentage wise what "standard" compares to "low."


I drive Standard Regen on 160 mile interstate hiway commute - ' will try Low Regen next week and see if there is any significant difference in energy consumption.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

RoBoRaT said:


> I drive Standard Regen on 160 mile interstate hiway commute - ' will try Low Regen next week and see if there is any significant difference in energy consumption.


Not sure that's the kind of driving has enough regen braking involved to demonstrate the effectiveness of regen. Anybody commuting through the mountains wanna be a guniea pig?


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

RoBoRaT said:


> I drive Standard Regen on 160 mile interstate hiway commute - ' will try Low Regen next week and see if there is any significant difference in energy consumption.


Regen settings matter more for stop-and-go driving.
You're not going to see much difference in highway efficiency.


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## RoBoRaT (Nov 24, 2018)

FRC said:


> Not sure that's the kind of driving has enough regen braking involved to demonstrate the effectiveness of regen. Anybody commuting through the mountains wanna be a guniea pig?


Will the up and down on these hills along I-15 qualify?


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## RoBoRaT (Nov 24, 2018)

garsh said:


> Regen settings matter more for stop-and-go driving.
> You're not going to see much difference in highway efficiency.


My 78 mile trip at 4 PM, takes about 2 hrs vs 1 hr 15 mins...the extra 45 minutes during rush hour is stop and go traffic, plus some up and down hill on a 20 mile stretch along I-15. 
We shall see - the regen difference, if any.


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## Swoop (Nov 11, 2018)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> When did you take delivery? I would say it took me 1-2 days to get used to the regen, though I had good seat time in a Model S before my Model 3. For my wife, it took a few weeks before she had it down nicely.


We've had the car now for about 2 months...and it's incredible...enjoy it more everyday...in the twisty's and in stop and go, single pedal driving is a blast...but on the highway, it's still up for grabs.


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## Swoop (Nov 11, 2018)

FRC said:


> Not sure that's the kind of driving has enough regen braking involved to demonstrate the effectiveness of regen. Anybody commuting through the mountains wanna be a guniea pig?


For sure. I'm going to manually drive the same route with standard and then low and compare. I use "Normal" regen with a cabin preheat to 70F, one seat heater and use 65F for the drive with Fan 1. Normally 39.8 miles uses 14% battery when the temp is around 32F.


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## ADK46 (Aug 4, 2018)

As for any car, smoothly varying the accelerator pedal is generally Good. Don't drive like my mother did, treating the gas pedal like an on-off switch. This requires a new skill for the Tesla - finding and respecting the midway "neutral" position - and will be especially appreciated by someone behind you, who might otherwise think you are an abominable two-footed driver, brakes flashing on and off annoyingly.

About 45% of the energy of regen is lost due to various inefficiencies on the in-out. That's better than 100% for normal brakes, but still wasteful if braking can be avoided.

Some driving involves very little braking. Regen is of little benefit - turn it off if you like. Going cross-town with many stop lights - that's when it helps a lot, and most of us like the way it works.


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

garsh said:


> Regen settings matter more for stop-and-go driving.
> You're not going to see much difference in highway efficiency.


I think even in stop and go traffic the difference will not be that much.


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## ADK46 (Aug 4, 2018)

Oh - we shouldn't forget about the longevity of the friction brakes - essentially "lifetime" on std regen, supposedly. Probably not in areas where they use road salt.


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

ADK46 said:


> Oh - we shouldn't forget about the longevity of the friction brakes - essentially "lifetime" on std regen, supposedly. Probably not in areas where they use road salt.


not sure if they will last life time ( depends on how long you keep the car) but the friction brakes should last for at-least 100-120k miles. My ICE honda I had my first brake change around 50k


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## Magnets! (Jan 10, 2019)

webdriverguy said:


> not sure if they will last life time ( depends on how long you keep the car) but the friction brakes should last for at-least 100-120k miles. My ICE honda I had my first brake change around 50k


My Audi S4 was due for brakes at 25,000 miles. The dealer wanted over $1,000 (can't recall exact amount) per axle as the rotors must be replaced and cannot be serviced. Best price I could find at an independent was $750. So over 100,000 miles I could potentially save $8,000 in brake service with the Model 3! And avoid several trips and days in the shop.


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## ADK46 (Aug 4, 2018)

A neanderthal friend of mine was dissing EVs by saying "they're so heavy, they go through brakes quickly." I knew that was way off - even Prius taxi cabs in NYC can go 100,000 miles on the original brakes. My notion that EV brakes are "lifetime" (quotes important) comes from reading threads about Tesla S brakes.

Anyway, my friend got a stern rebuke for his ignorant statement, which must come from some anti-EV playbook. He's told me I'll get brain cancer, too - strong electromagnetic fields, you know. I let him drive the 3, and he flatly rejected the standard regen (don't be like him!). He won't even accept turbochargers due to the lag in throttle response. Every time he accelerated I chanted "No lag! No lag!" He had to agree that was good.


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

Magnets! said:


> My Audi S4 was due for brakes at 25,000 miles. The dealer wanted over $1,000 (can't recall exact amount) per axle as the rotors must be replaced and cannot be serviced. Best price I could find at an independent was $750. So over 100,000 miles I could potentially save $8,000 in brake service with the Model 3! And avoid several trips and days in the shop.


Due for a brake change in 25k mikes that's really short.


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

ADK46 said:


> He's told me I'll get brain cancer, too - strong electromagnetic fields, you know.


That's the first time I have heard about this.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Magnets! said:


> My Audi S4 was due for brakes at 25,000 miles. The dealer wanted over $1,000 (can't recall exact amount) per axle as the rotors must be replaced and cannot be serviced. Best price I could find at an independent was $750. So over 100,000 miles I could potentially save $8,000 in brake service with the Model 3! And avoid several trips and days in the shop.


Wow. Replacing rotors isn't that much more work than replacing brake pads. I guess they figure Audi owners can afford to be charged higher prices.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

I also was a naysayer and immediately turned off standard on day 1 with the car. A month or so in I started to read about the benefits and my partner used standard in his profile and liked it. So I decided to take it on like a challenge, just to see how good I could drive with one pedal and I couldn't let him tell others how he drove it better than me. Lets just say I'm converted, for many reasons. Brake pad/rotor savings just one big side benefit.


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## Oyster Bait (Sep 15, 2018)

I strongly prefer low regen and still find most of my driving a single-pedal experience except for the last mph or two,


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

garsh said:


> Wow. Replacing rotors isn't that much more work than replacing brake pads. I guess they figure Audi owners can afford to be charged higher prices.


I remember for my honda it was 300 per axle when i had done it


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

Oyster Bait said:


> I strongly prefer low regen and still find most of my driving a single-pedal experience except for the last mph or two,


I'm likely way off base here, but I notice that most who eschew regen seem to be new to the car. I challenge all of you who prefer low-regen, to drive standard regen, exclusively, for ten days straight. Then report back to this thread. My three favorite features of my car: no gas, insane acceleration, regenerative braking.


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## Magnets! (Jan 10, 2019)

webdriverguy said:


> Due for a brake change in 25k mikes that's really short.


Seemed to be pretty normal for that car. A friend's wife went through hers at 20,000, but he said she drives it really hard.


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## Magnets! (Jan 10, 2019)

garsh said:


> Wow. Replacing rotors isn't that much more work than replacing brake pads. I guess they figure Audi owners can afford to be charged higher prices.


It's not the labor for the rotors so much as the part cost.


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

FRC said:


> I'm likely way off base here, but I notice that most who eschew regen seem to be new to the car. I challenge all of you who prefer low-regen, to drive standard regen, exclusively, for ten days straight. Then report back to this thread. My three favorite features of my car: no gas, insane acceleration, regenerative braking.


I think we need a mad max mode for regen


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

webdriverguy said:


> I think we need a mad max mode for regen


Yeah, I was thinking ludicrous regen.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Magnets! said:


> It's not the labor for the rotors so much as the part cost.


Rotors don't cost that much either.
That's just how dealers normally fleece people on maintenance.


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## Magnets! (Jan 10, 2019)

garsh said:


> Rotors don't cost that much either.
> That's just how dealers normally fleece people on maintenance.


For the S4 they weren't cheap. Best price I found for OEM from an independent distributor was $300 for the front axle.


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## ev0lm3 (Nov 3, 2018)

Chill mode on standard regen feels like coasting, and feels more natural like driving automatic transmission without the cost of low regen.


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## ADK46 (Aug 4, 2018)

"Normal" used to mean the normal engine compression braking from gasoline engines in cars with manual transmissions - meaning highly variable depending on gear and clutch. Then it changed to mean what a torque convertor provides, including that infernal creep effect. For me, the next change came from a dual-clutch transmission that adapted it's shifting map automatically to how I was driving (and settings), and simulated the creep. Then another car with DCT, but programmed to coast for the sake of better emissions and MPG. Oh, there was a Prius - it behaved very normally, despite being very different under the hood. 

The latest "normal" is the Tesla, which I like except for the variability that comes from temperature effects. Not a big deal, mitigated by a warm garage, just something to get used to as I have over the years in other cars. It definitely needs a snow button, or learn that "OMG, everything is white!" means the control schemes need adjustment.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

I love standard regen and one pedal driving, but I will admit that on the highway, I use TACC or EAP to give my foot a break. Regen braking was one of the biggest reasons that attracted me to EV's ever since I drove an early i3. I guess to me, the act of retracting my foot to cause a deceleration feels totally natural and requires zero thought. I find it to be much smoother than having to switch to the brake pedal especially in stop and go. 

But that's just me. I can see if your'e not used to it you might not like it.


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## Wooloomooloo (Oct 29, 2017)

garsh said:


> Wow. Replacing rotors isn't that much more work than replacing brake pads. I guess they figure Audi owners can afford to be charged higher prices.


Sorry but anyone who is willing to pay a 40% premium for a car that's a Volkswagen Passat with a different badge and a slightly better nav system, kind of deserves it!


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## CCIE (Sep 1, 2018)

Using the low regen setting is incredibly inefficient. You're throwing away almost all of your kinetic energy when you use the friction brakes. By contrast, standard regen recoups 70-80% of that kinetic energy. 

Spend some time and learn to drive with one-pedal. It's better for your wallet and the environment.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Magnets! said:


> For the S4 they weren't cheap.


The Amazon link I provided in my post was _for_ an S4.
A complete set of four drilled and slotted rotors AND four sets of ceramic brake pads for $232.


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## Magnets! (Jan 10, 2019)

garsh said:


> The Amazon link I provided in my post was _for_ an S4.
> A complete set of four drilled and slotted rotors AND four sets of ceramic brake pads for $232.


Didn't and still not seeing a link. Ya no doubt aftermarket is cheaper, I was looking for OEM. Anyhow, the Audi seems like a distant memory now and I no longer need to concern my self with replacing brakes...at least for a lonnng time. Unless I get back into tracks days.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Magnets! said:


> Didn't and still not seeing a link.


Ah. Turn off your adblocker for this website. They block the Amazon links.


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## Unplugged (Apr 5, 2016)

Consumer Reports has the tested the range on the Model 3 (long range rear drive) difference between using the standard (high) mode for regenerative brakes and the low mode. CR states that they "managed to go 350 miles on a single charge—the longest distance we’ve ever recorded in an EV—when set to Tesla’s higher regenerative braking mode" (standard) versus, "When set to the lower regenerative braking mode, which more accurately reflects the driving experience of a conventional vehicle, the EV still managed to go an impressive 310 miles..."

I think the testing by CR definitively confirms that using the highest regen setting is the best for gaining more range.


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## Oyster Bait (Sep 15, 2018)

@Unplugged - got a link? Did they control for driving conditions, etc?


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## Unplugged (Apr 5, 2016)

Consumer Reports has repeatable and controlled conditions for measuring real world mileage and range on all vehicles. You would have to search their testing standards to find out exactly how they test for MPG on gas cars and range on EVs.

As for the citation, you will probably need a subscription from CR to read their original review of the Model 3. It is here: 
https://www.consumerreports.org/hyb...lls-short-of-consumer-reports-recommendation/

The language is at the very bottom of the report page; the last few paragraphs, so scroll all the way down. Here is the exact language:

"In addition, the Model 3 set a range record in CR testing. It managed to go 350 miles on a single charge-the longest distance we've ever recorded in an EV-when set to Tesla's higher regenerative braking mode (which the company refers to as Standard Regenerative Braking Mode). This mode will aggressively slow the vehicle to charge the battery as soon as the driver removes his or her foot from the accelerator pedal.

When set to the lower regenerative braking mode, which more accurately reflects the driving experience of a conventional vehicle, the EV still managed to go an impressive 310 miles, which is in line with what Tesla estimated for the car. CR tested the Chevrolet Bolt EV and the Tesla Model S using the lower regenerative braking mode when we compared the range of these two cars.

That much range could make an EV a viable choice as a daily driver for even more consumers."


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