# Lessons from a 3300 road trip



## GTV6 (Apr 26, 2016)

I'm now at 15K miles on my RWD delivered July 2nd. We just completed a 3300 mile round trip from rural MA to southern Fla early January heading south and returning last night. The temperature range during that time was from 85F to 8F, including heavy rain, snow and ice. Mostly interstate, but some back and local roads. My Nokian R3 snow tires were mounted throughout.
1. When in question on this type of winter route, keep the snows on. The advantage on the winter end easily outplays any disadvantage. This set up is very sensitive to tire pressure. Cold psi of 47 seems to be the sweet spot. I altered the pressure once during each leg. I can't say there is a noticeable increase in energy use. High speed handling (up to 90) is strong if the tire pressure is up. There is a noise penalty but to me its relatively unimportant. I have driven Nokians snows now 3 times on this route with no drastic increase in expected wear.
2. The superchargers make it all possible but need to be closely observed. At least 3 times I had to switch my supercharger position to get a reasonable charging rate. On one occasion, the charging stopped prematurely resulting in an idling fee which has been forgiven.
3. There were always at least 2 empty spots at every supercharger location. I suppose some of that is luck. The Savannah GA charger is in the airport parking garage and you will not incur a parking fee.
4. There are MANY 3s on the road, including a number of Performance models. Only the two Performance drivers were disinterested in conversing. (how's that for a scientific finding?).
5. One can fit 2 bicycles, a month's luggage, a small dog and a spouse in the car with little problem. The fitted trunk luggage is very useful especially when stopping over night in transit. I recommend it. One bike is a carbon fiber custom frame with a very tall rigid mast. I fit that without pedals or wheels upside down behind the front seats. The heavier cruiser bike was laid down on the folded rear seat. With heavy blankets, I was able to layer the wheels without damage on top of that bike. Soft luggage is the answer. This would all be impossible with hard luggage.
6. Tesla nav is great but for two shortcomings for me: inability to observe alternative routes, and the lack of fine detail when within .25 miles of a supercharger location. "I know we are close but where the hell are those chargers?" Let's say one has to disengage from instrument flying and go to visual.
7. I regularly did what I call 'the supercharger redo': It's taking some practice to realize how close one must position the car for the cable to reach. I regularly noticed other owners doing the same.
8. Warning: the attractive, innocuous black 'grill' at the interior base of the windshield is actually a delicate fabric. Learn from my mistake and don't lay your transponder grip side down, as it will hook on and create a pull in the fabric. Argh!!!!
9. Don't get a white rescue dog if you have the black interior. Coordinate dog and car!

Hope there's something here helpful to you.


----------



## Achooo (Oct 20, 2018)

"9. Don't get a white rescue dog if you have the black interior. Coordinate dog and car! "

This comment cracked me up! Thanks for the write up. I'm a performance driver; I would have conversed with you. Just saying. haha.


----------



## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

Achooo said:


> "9. Don't get a white rescue dog if you have the black interior. Coordinate dog and car! "
> 
> This comment cracked me up! Thanks for the write up. I'm a performance driver; I would have conversed with you. Just saying. haha.


Me too! Meeting at superchargers is the best part of the trip!


----------



## Midnit3 (Oct 8, 2017)

Nice write up!


----------



## GTV6 (Apr 26, 2016)

Achooo said:


> "9. Don't get a white rescue dog if you have the black interior. Coordinate dog and car! "
> 
> This comment cracked me up! Thanks for the write up. I'm a performance driver; I would have conversed with you. Just saying. haha.


LOL. You don't count. You're from Southern CA where anyone talks with anyone......


----------



## JimT (Aug 9, 2018)

Did you get a sense for your overall average watt hours per mile on the trip?


----------



## GTV6 (Apr 26, 2016)

JimT said:


> Did you get a sense for your overall average watt hours per mile on the trip?


The cabin heat full blast can chew up energy but at reasonable interior temps (67F) and two heater seaters on low, it's not a primary variable. 
So on the interstate traveling at say 80 in warmer temps, i was burning between 280 and 310. At faster speeds, it could go as high as 350. With temps in the high 30's and 40's, at 80 mph, it was about 325. The last hour of our trip was at 15 degrees, in hill country at say 5-10 over the speed limit on back two lane roads. It was 390!!
For comparison, my average over 12000 miles between July though December in daily driving was 260. Most of that is NOT in urban traffic, and driving enthusiastically with occasional rapid acceleration, especially when I'm giving demos


----------



## JimT (Aug 9, 2018)

great info. thanks


----------



## GTV6 (Apr 26, 2016)

JimT said:


> great info. thanks


Stay warm and safe. Looks like you have some 'chill' coming your way! We have cold winter temps here in hill country (1000 feet above sea level) 75 miles from the coast, but it rarely lasts more than a few days before it moderates to the 20's. Given that, tomorrow AM when I'm driving to Boston for an 8am flight, it will be 6 below F, enough I really have to plan charging schedule carefully. AT those temps, I have to consider possibility of a 50% reduction in range to be safe.


----------



## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

Great observations, thank you. How did you find the nav's estimate of range left at superchargers vs. real life? Fairly accurate? 

BTW, nice P-Cars in your Avatar. Hope they are re-assembled by now!


----------



## GTV6 (Apr 26, 2016)

Needsdecaf said:


> Great observations, thank you. How did you find the nav's estimate of range left at superchargers vs. real life? Fairly accurate?
> 
> BTW, nice P-Cars in your Avatar. Hope they are re-assembled by now!


The estimates are only as good as the temperature: they don't appear to compensate. But the system recalculates in real time and starts posting warnings to slow down in order to reach the destination. So driving at low temps definitely requires vigilance.

The P's are now at my nephews shop in Charlottesville where he continues on them whenever he can. Not for the faint of heart. But the 911 is definitely making progress.


----------



## Tom Hudson (Dec 20, 2017)

GTV6 said:


> 9. Don't get a white rescue dog if you have the black interior. Coordinate dog and car!


LOL! I have two Siberian huskies that ride in our car a lot -- Just a hint, we NEVER wear black clothes. We deal pretty well with the problem by using a "dog hammock", which is a sling-like thing made of quilted synthetic fabric that hangs on the headrests (front and back) with straps. It does a great job of protecting the seats from claws and dirt, and keeps most of the white undercoat fur off the interior.


----------



## GTV6 (Apr 26, 2016)

Tom Hudson said:


> LOL! I have two Siberian huskies that ride in our car a lot -- Just a hint, we NEVER wear black clothes. We deal pretty well with the problem by using a "dog hammock", which is a sling-like thing made of quilted synthetic fabric that hangs on the headrests (front and back) with straps. It does a great job of protecting the seats from claws and dirt, and keeps most of the white undercoat fur off the interior.
> View attachment 21326


Two huskies!! You are brave. In the dry winter interior air the hair seems to seek out black anywhere in the car. Black clothing? You have to be kidding. I have black fleece that will last my lifetime because I can't wear it. At one point we had a Scottie and a Weimareiner. They were the right fashion accessories for black interiors. 🤓now just a Jack Russell/Cattle dog combo who is capable of ejecting both white and black hair. A fashion challenge. Sigh. My Privileged life is such a challenge. 🤣


----------



## ADK46 (Aug 4, 2018)

P's?










1987 928 S4 and 1982 911 SC Euro. Wish I had a nephew like yours. My avatar is derived from the British item.


----------



## GTV6 (Apr 26, 2016)

Ah both very nice. I grew up in a Porsche family. First 356b cabriolet in the US and one of first 911s. An illness which I’ve now avoided for years. It’s resurfaced with my nephew who began detailing high end cars when he was 13. Check out automotive aesthetics on Facebook for fun pics that often show customer Ps. Thanks for the pic. I especially like watching the Smart Car quietly stalking the BugEye.


----------



## JimT (Aug 9, 2018)

I'm planning to drive from northern Wisconsin to key largo, Florida and back next month. I was curious if the nav planning algorithms would take ambient temps into account so I drove for about a half hour in -26 degree f ambient this morning and then parked and entered the key largo destination... from the route and charge times I'd have to say temperature is not a routing factor. So one will have to have the energy screen up to see energy consumption trends and revise plans as required. 

I sent Tesla a request to break out energy going to cabin temp management separately from the power going to the inverter to propel the car. I think it would help owners make better power management decisions.


----------



## GTV6 (Apr 26, 2016)

JimT said:


> I'm planning to drive from northern Wisconsin to key largo, Florida and back next month. I was curious if the nav planning algorithms would take ambient temps into account so I drove for about a half hour in -26 degree f ambient this morning and then parked and entered the key largo destination... from the route and charge times I'd have to say temperature is not a routing factor. So one will have to have the energy screen up to see energy consumption trends and revise plans as required.
> 
> I sent Tesla a request to break out energy going to cabin temp management separately from the power going to the inverter to propel the car. I think it would help owners make better power management decisions.


That's a very interesting suggestion. No, the algorithm does not take temperature into account. This early AM at 2 degrees F in very slippery conditions the range prediction was about 25% optimistic.
BTW on your trip remember to track your tire pressures. You could easily see a 10lb difference at 80F from your current brisk temp.


----------



## Andres (Jan 6, 2017)

Thanks a lot for your post! I will be driving my RWD LR from Boston, MA to Fort Myers Beach, FL, in the span of two days (stopping and sleeping in Fayetteville, NC) mid February. Driving only with the dog and some bags; wife and daughter taking a plane (dog is 65 lbs., so no plane for him).

I'm looking forward to the roadtrip, but I'm curious/worried about the accuracy of calculating range during the trip. I used EVTripping to get some plan on where to stop, and plan to enter each supercharger destination every time (instead of just entering the final destination of each day at the beginning).

Did you just use the trip calculated by the onboard system, or used an external site (like EVTripping) to do some planning?

Because I live in the city, I just have the all season tires, and I'm hoping it will be good enough for me.

Thanks again for the info, and any extra tips!


----------



## GTV6 (Apr 26, 2016)

Andres said:


> Thanks a lot for your post! I will be driving my RWD LR from Boston, MA to Fort Myers Beach, FL, in the span of two days (stopping and sleeping in Fayetteville, NC) mid February. Driving only with the dog and some bags; wife and daughter taking a plane (dog is 65 lbs., so no plane for him).
> 
> I'm looking forward to the roadtrip, but I'm curious/worried about the accuracy of calculating range during the trip. I used EVTripping to get some plan on where to stop, and plan to enter each supercharger destination every time (instead of just entering the final destination of each day at the beginning).
> 
> ...


Sounds like a great and to-me familiar trip. Admittedly, I usually go through PA and Roanoke rather than DC because it's much more pleasant and only 60 miles longer.

First off, the tires. I've had more experience in the last 24 hours given yesterday's sudden afternoon squall and the resultant snow/ice this AM at 4am on route 2 into Logan to catch a plane. Very slick conditions which I would NOT have wanted to try without snows in the RWD. But short of that, if you time your trip so you can delay a day if there's snow, you should be fine.

The nav does not adjust for temperature (see above posts). The way i plan is simple. I enter my ultimate destination in Stuart Florida or to home, and allow the car to suggest supercharger stops which it does within say 30 seconds. I then tap on my next charger so as to be directed there and to keep track of miles to go to compare to my range indicator. Either I'll make them, or the car issues a warning that I need to slow down to make the charger in which case i tap the screen until an icon with three symbols shows on the right and tapping the bottom icon will cause other supercharger sites to show up on the route. I look at those to see the distance and pick one.

The only complication is it isn't easy for the driver to do this while driving. Once you get the hang of this, it's not difficult, especially if you are ok with just knowing this is not about doing 350 miles at a stretch with no stops. As a man of a certain age, I have to stop to pee anyway every say 150 miles which works out perfectly for charging. On our last trip back, we stopped so many more times than in my previous diesel trips but still accomplished the entire drive in the same total time and with much less fatigue in the end.

So from Boston if your first stop might be in Greenwich on the Merritt Parkway. Second stop say in Burlington NJ, third in Delaware?, fourth before Richmond, 5th in Santee SC. (I'm doing this from memory). For the most part, the density of locations is such that you always have alternatives unless you really zone out and ignore until the last minute. I know many people use app planners ahead of time for all of this, but I don't find that necessary. THough i am comfortable with ambiguity having been self-employed for 45 years!
Have a great trip and don't let your dog drive even if he wants to. I'm eager to hear about your trip.


----------



## EarlyBuyer (Apr 9, 2017)

Great recap GTV6, thanks for the info!


----------



## Andres (Jan 6, 2017)

GTV6 said:


> Sounds like a great and to-me familiar trip. Admittedly, I usually go through PA and Roanoke rather than DC because it's much more pleasant and only 60 miles longer.
> 
> First off, the tires. I've had more experience in the last 24 hours given yesterday's sudden afternoon squall and the resultant snow/ice this AM at 4am on route 2 into Logan to catch a plane. Very slick conditions which I would NOT have wanted to try without snows in the RWD. But short of that, if you time your trip so you can delay a day if there's snow, you should be fine.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for all the extra tips! I plan to navigate in autopilot most of the trip, so "I think" doing your suggestion of selecting a new supercharger on-the-fly. won't be an issue.

Currently, EVTripping gave me this itinerary for the first day:

30 Mall Drive West, Jersey City, NJ
440 King Georges Road, Woodbridge, NJ
6500 Springfield Mall, Springfield, VA
9950 Brook Rd., Glen Allen, VA
1902 Cedar Creek Road, Fayetteville, NC

I was looking in the map, and after Santee, SC, there aren't that many Superchargers, so that's the only part of the trip that have me, right now, uneasy for the calculation of range. But I'm not the first one doing it, so I guess it should be OK.

Hahaha! Yeah, I won't let the dog drive... he is too lazy and just want to sleep. ;-) And he has its own seatbelt in the back seat.

And I'm pretty flexible with the timing, so then I won't worry much about the tires.

Thanks again, and will post my experience later in February.


----------



## JimT (Aug 9, 2018)

GTV6 said:


> That's a very interesting suggestion. No, the algorithm does not take temperature into account. This early AM at 2 degrees F in very slippery conditions the range prediction was about 25% optimistic.
> BTW on your trip remember to track your tire pressures. You could easily see a 10lb difference at 80F from your current brisk temp.


I repeated the same navigation route (menomonie wi to key largo FL ) today when ambient temp is 36 f versus 21 below earlier this week, and the charging times changed significantly. at 21 below the total time enroute was projected at 37 hours, at 36f the projected time is 34.5 hours. the mileage between stops is greater while the charge times are less so it appears the navigation planning system does take temperature into account, which is great news.


----------



## Chris350 (Aug 8, 2017)

Took mine from Palm Beach FL to Lynchburg VA and back....

My only complaint with the nav was the lack of alt routes and waypoints...

It was the only thing that forced me to have to use Google Maps..

All stops were perfect for charging and lunch/dinner.


----------



## Andres (Jan 6, 2017)

OK, I got back from my roundtrip Boston, MA - Ft.Myers Beach, FL - Boston, MA , and I wanted to share my experience. Here it goes:

My trip was from Boston, MA to Ft.Myers Beach, FL, roundtrip (approx. 1500 mi / 2400 Km each way). The reason was that we wanted to bring our dog, and he is too big to be allowed on a plane. So, my wife and daughter took a plane; the dog and I took the Model 3.

Before our trip, I read a few posts from people that also did long trips on Model 3s, and many mentioned about pre-planning the trip, so I did that several weeks in advance. I knew I wanted to divide the trip in 2 days (no way I was going to drive +28 hours straight); the midway point was near Fayetteville, NC and found a Red Roof Inn (a hotel that, for sure, accepted a 65 lb. / 30 Kg. dog in a room).

I used *EVTripping* (https://evtripping.com/) to plan each day separately, and exported the data to a Google spreadsheet, so I could tweak it. Using that site, you will get the departing and arriving percentage/range on the battery, how long is the expected stop in the Supercharger, and the length (time/distance) of each leg.

Using *Google Maps* and *Now You Know's Supercharger Reviews* (https://www.nowyouknowchannel.com/supercharger-reviews), you can scout the locations in advance so, for example, you know what restaurants are around, if it will be time for lunch when you arrive. Also, to know roughly where in that location is the Supercharger located (the address is the general location, the Supercharger may be located in the back, where you cannot see it). In retrospect, I should have also used *Tesla's Supercharger List* (https://www.tesla.com/findus/list/superchargers/United States) to get more information. Why? Well, because in one of the stops I had to go to a parking lot of an airport, and it was unclear if I had to pay the parking or not; a quick search in Tesla's list said the parking ticket needed to be validated inside the airport; things like that. I should have added my observations of each Supercharger in the spreadsheet to refresh my memory on the road; I will do it next time.

Another advantage of having the EVTripping data on a Google Spreadsheet is that I could easily share the address of the Supercharger, with my phone, to the car, so I did not need to enter it directly in the screen.

Because, for my departure from Boston, I was expecting the temperature to be very low, I did the calculations in EVTripping starting with 90% of the battery, but I actually charged it to 100% right before the trip. This was a smart move because, although it was cold and rainy/windy that day, leaving my house I decided to let the car's computer decide where to stop first to supercharge: big mistake. It brought me to NYC (I should have known better), and the location was a valet parking that wanted me to pay for the parking to supercharge, and I (or my dog) could not be in the car. So, I did not charge there, and decided to go to the location I had in my plan (Woodbridge, NJ); I arrived with 4% battery.

That reminds me: our car have Aero wheels. Tesla claims that, using them, you can save up to 10% of the battery. If only half of that is true, that was the factor that allowed me to reach the Supercharger in NJ.

From there, I just followed the plan: at each Supercharger, when I arrived, I shared (from my phone) the address to the next Supercharger, and the computer will tell you for how long you will have to supercharge. That time was different than the one calculated by EVTripping. Why? Because Tesla's calculations are conservative, and they want you to arrive to your destination with, at least, 10% of the battery. EVTripping's calculations, sometimes, expect you to arrive with 5%.

Because I wanted to save battery, to get most of the range, I did not use heating. Of course, that was "uncomfortable" the first day, and at some points I had to turn it on for a few minutes to defrost the windshield. On the second day (after NC), no need of heating. 

One thing I noticed during traffic jams/slowdowns in the highways was that the range of the battery increases. Of course, because the slower you drive, the electric motors are more efficient. It was counter intuitive (because of the experiences in ICE cars), but it really helps to get less anxious about being on a traffic jam.
(Big asterisk here: this is only true if you are not using AC/heating)

Of course, autopilot is a HUGE advantage on a trip like this. At the end of each day I was tired, but not fatigued, and in any way impaired to drive. And having to stop every 3.5-4 hours to charge is not, in any way, a downside, because you need to stop to use the restroom or eat, anyways.

Another interesting thing is being in Ft.Myers Beach, FL: my father-in-law expected to have a NEMA 14-50 outlet for me to charge the car, but there was a delay with the permit and the electrician couldn't install it. The closest Supercharger is in Ft.Myers (30 minutes in good traffic), and there are a couple of Tesla Destination chargers in the island. But we did not need to go to any of them: using a regular 120V outlet (charging 3 miles/hour), we were able to fully charge the battery (100%) in less than 5 days. Of course, we arrived to Ft.Myers Beach with about 10%-15% of the battery (if I remember correctly). But the lesson is: think about how much time will you use the car at your destination and how much time it will be idle; you may not need any special infrastructure to charge the car.

Coming back to Boston, I did another experiment: instead of entering my next Supercharger destination, each time I entered 2 in advance (for example, when leaving Ft.Myers Beach, I entered the address of the second stop). The first day, that saved me about 1 hour of driving; the second day about 30 minutes. The problem with this approach is that the computer will suggest to stop at a Supercharger we did not have information, so you have to improvise.

In all the trip, I never had a problem with the car, or problems with ICE cars in Tesla's charging spots. Also, I never had to wait to Supercharge, and only one Supercharger was full after I arrived. Beginners luck, I guess.

Let me know if you have any questions!

Andres.


----------



## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

I did Atlanta-Fort Myers in early February. Nice place, but, man is Ft Myers Beach hard to drive around on! One question, why did you feel like navigating 2 stops out saved time? Generally, when I stop at charger X, I plug in and then locate charger X+1 and determine how much charge plus buffer I need. Can you explain your methodology in a bit more detail?


----------



## Andres (Jan 6, 2017)

FRC said:


> I did Atlanta-Fort Myers in early February. Nice place, but, man is Ft Myers Beach hard to drive around on! One question, why did you feel like navigating 2 stops out saved time? Generally, when I stop at charger X, I plug in and then locate charger X+1 and determine how much charge plus buffer I need. Can you explain your methodology in a bit more detail?


Hi!

Yes, Ft.Myers Beach is a nightmare for driving, specially now with the road construction. Fortunately we were just 1 block away from Publix, so no need to take the car there. And the beach entrance was just crossing the street.

Well, let me say something first: what I did was more like a crapshoot than any scientific experiment, so take anything I say with a grain of salt. 

This was my logic: I noticed, on my way south, that many (most?) times I arrived to the destination (Supercharger) with %5-10% more battery than expected. So, what if I try to take advantage of that and, instead of stopping in the next Supercharger I had planned, I can stop in one between that one and my next one. It feels to me that it was more effective in between FL-NC than NC-MA but, once again, this is hardly a scientific experiment.


----------



## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

I've done around 5500 miles in 4 roadtrips so far(planning to do one 8K trip this Spring). I probably stop at more superchargers than most people. I never supercharge past 80% and try to hold it to 60% if possible. Beyond 80%(unless it's absolutely necessary) is just too slow. Up to 50% is way fast, I wish 50-70 was a bit quicker because 70%/200 miles seems to be the sweet spot for me. Superchargers and nature seem to mesh at about the 200 mile mark for me! At any rate, holding my charge to around 70% seems to allow me to do what I need to do and wait almost never for charging. Last little piece I've learned, never pass a supercharger unless you're certain to make the next one with an acceptable buffer. The few minutes you might save aren't worth the anxiety involved.


----------



## Andres (Jan 6, 2017)

Yeah, that's the other factor I wondered: the sweet spot between waiting and having more range or stop more often with less wait. In my case, because I was traveling with my dog, I wanted longer stops because I could take him for a walk, I could rest a little and eat something. But 70% seems reasonable.


----------



## Zcd1 (Feb 28, 2019)

Great write ups! No heat/AC?? Wow - not a compromise I'd be willing to make, but to each their own.

Longest trip I've taken thus far is about 130 miles, but that was in single-digit temps with some snow and wind thrown in to make it even more interesting. Net-net, my Model 3P's range is about 200 miles in those conditions. (!!) Hoping for significantly better results this summer!


----------



## Andres (Jan 6, 2017)

Zcd1 said:


> Great write ups! No heat/AC?? Wow - not a compromise I'd be willing to make, but to each their own.


Yes, definitely not super pleasant some times. The heated seats are enough in many situations; the main problem (to me) of not using heating was fogging of the windows; because of that I used it a little.


----------

