# The Future For Model S?



## Dan Detweiler

A post came up over on TMC that really got me thinking (very scary, I know!)

Now bear with me on this, it is just pure speculation on my part. Please don't take my head off on this as I know it might rub some folks the wrong way. So...to set this up let's look at a little history first. Tesla needed the income from the Roadster to help with the initial cost of the Model S and Model X programs. All part of the master plan. Once the Model S was established and viable the Roadster went away as supposedly Tesla could use those resources to better benefit the further development of said Model S and X. 

So what do you guys think of the possibilities that Tesla may do the same thing with the Model S at some point? If the Model 3 is as successful as we all think it will be and with their sights set on the much bigger markets for a pick up truck and an affordable hatchback, would the resources spent on the expensive, limited market for a high end sedan be better used to bring these much more widely anticipated products to fruition? I guess what I am asking is if you guys feel that at some point the Model S might be a company liability holding them back from reaching a broader market for some of these other projects, assuming the Model 3 can sustain the company at that point. 

Don't get me wrong, I love the Model S but I wonder if at some point Tesla may feel the money spent on maintaining that line be better spent elsewhere. What do you think?

Dan


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## garsh

Given the prices that the S and X command, I don't see them dropping those lines. Instead, I think they'll take the lessons they learned from the Model 3 and redesign parts of the S and X to make them easier & cheaper to manufacture. With little to no change in sales price, the profits will then be immense on that product line.

But... the 3 doesn't appear to be all that much smaller than the S. At least, the interior doesn't appear to be. Maybe the size is close enough that it doesn't make sense to keep making the S. It's an interesting thought. I personally think they'll keep the S around. It's currently the company's signature car.


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## Michael Russo

garsh said:


> Given the prices that the S and X command, I don't see them dropping those lines. (...) I personally think they'll keep the S around. It's currently the company's signature car.


Indeed, @garsh, I see it the same way & that is exactly what @Red Sage aptly articulated in his post #24 in the thread below.
https://teslaownersonline.com/threa...x-before-hud-installed.2227/page-2#post-13411
In fact, if (strike that, I actually meant 'when') T≡SLA is as successful as we believe it can be, I believe they will expand to a _full range_ with the previously announced Model Y, truck, etc. as well as keep & replace Model S & X (and, oh by the way, the Roadster too)! 
Go T≡SLA!


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## Red Sage

garsh said:


> But... the 3 doesn't appear to be all that much smaller than the S. At least, the interior doesn't appear to be. Maybe the size is close enough that it doesn't make sense to keep making the S. It's an interesting thought. I personally think they'll keep the S around. It's currently the company's signature car.


I believe that the Tesla Model ☰ will be classified as a Midsize car. Most of its direct competitors among _'entry level luxury'_ cars are Compact instead. The designation is based upon interior volume. *But the Infiniti Q50 is also Midsize.* Some very long, heavy, large cars are still considered to be Compact, because their cabin and cargo volume is so small. Such as the Mercedes-Benz CLS-Class. The 2014 AUDI A8 was Midsize, but went away in favor of the A8 L extended wheelbase version, which is a Large car designate _(that didn't help sales though, as the Tesla Model S kept kicking its butt)_.


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## teslaliving

So far, I don't see a lot of reason for buying a S when the 3 is out. Perhaps the S will have a higher max range or a high 0-60, but otherwise the 3 should rule.


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## EBelly

I think the S will remain the flagship of the brand. It will receive a more luxurious interior and remain a viable alternative to the everyman's car. There will still be a large market for such a vehicle in today's world.


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## Topher

The roadster was dumped because it was really production built. They might return to making a roadster when they have some spare time. I think Tesla wants to be a full line car manufacturer, that means filling all the niches. So something will occupy the Model S niche. I think the only question is when will it get a complete redesign.

Thank you kindly.


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## TrevP

They will keep the S much like BMW still has a 7 series. You can put new tech into the higher margins cars first and trickle it down in time.


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## xxZULAxx

garsh said:


> The 3 appears to have almost as much interior room as the S, just shorter frunk & trunk sections
> $70k in a Model S gets me a base model - no options
> $70k in a Model 3 will probably get me the largest battery, dual-motors, self-driving, etc.


I understand this absolutely, however, then Tesla should get rid of Model S all together? After all this logic works for everyone, those who have or don't have money to spend. There will be differentiation between an S and 3. It won't be as clear as you just presented or as good in some way.


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## AZ Desert Driver

So


xxZULAxx said:


> I understand this absolutely, however, then Tesla should get rid of Model S all together? After all this logic works for everyone, those who have or don't have money to spend. There will be differentiation between an S and 3. It won't be as clear as you just presented or as good in some way.


 While I was salivating for a Model 3, I kept anticipating the wonderful features that are on display with a Model S. So, I DID buy an MS. Now, I get to see just how much glare comes through a pano roof, instead of wondering if I should buy a metal too next time. I get to experience Air Suspension - would I buy that again? (same query for all the optional features). Now- my Sept 2016 MS has autopilot, but is it to be as good as the M3 when Sept 2017 rolls around? Will I have to turn in my MS to get the latest features offered on the M3?

I see the M3 as being the cutting edge when it is released. I think the New MS will inherit those features, but the old ones (oh - 6 months old is ancient these days) will still be driving on old stuff.

Is there a reason for the MS to exist? I suspect that this big brother will always be emerging with the latest stuff, and probably be outfitted with things that the M3 will not have. At least, the MS will be released with new stuff BEFORE the M3 is released with it. If you want to own the absolute latest, then you will be trading in one sled for the sled dejour and be constantly trading.


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## garsh

xxZULAxx said:


> I understand this absolutely, however, then Tesla should get rid of Model S all together? After all this logic works for everyone, those who have or don't have money to spend. There will be differentiation between an S and 3. It won't be as clear as you just presented or as good in some way.


The logic might work for everybody, but it doesn't necessarily apply to everybody. Reasons to choose an S over a 3:

Exclusivity. Large, luxury sedan. It's the reason why people buy Lexus, when it's basically a more expensive Toyota.
Ludicrous+. The 3's Ludicrous mode may not be as quick.
New features (hardware changes) will premier on the S before trickling down to the mass-market 3.
You want your Tesla NOW, instead of waiting months/years


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## MichelT3

Why do people pay a lot of money for a Bentley or other luxurious car. They have the same options as middel class cars, are just bigger and with more luxurious finishing. The same difference is there between Model 3 and S/X.


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## Steve C

MichelT3 said:


> Why do people pay a lot of money for a Bentley or other luxurious car. They have the same options as middel class cars, are just bigger and with more luxurious finishing. The same difference is there between Model 3 and S/X.


Agreed. I do think they need to do a little more with the Model S interior though. I was happy to see the Volvo guy hire.

If there is anything that could be improved, it's the luxuriousness of the Model S interior. There isn't even an option for rear screen's. At over $200k (P100D) that would be a nice option to be available or included at that price.


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## Red Sage

xxZULAxx said:


> I understand this absolutely, however, then Tesla should get rid of Model S all together?


No. The Model S will continue to outsell its ICE-based gas/diesel guzzling competitors: 7-Series, S-Class, XJ, LS, A8 L, Quattroporte, Genesis, and every other _'flagship'_ vehicle on the market for some time to come. Those other companies might consider changing their strategies to cope... My guess is that they will resist moving to EV, take their ICE clunkers further up market, and be content with providing an air of_ 'exclusivity' _as their sales go down even more.


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## Red Sage

Steve C said:


> Agreed. I do think they need to do a little more with the Model S interior though. I was happy to see the Volvo guy hire.
> 
> If there is anything that could be improved, it's the luxuriousness of the Model S interior. There isn't even an option for rear screen's. At over $200k (P100D) that would be a nice option to be available or included at that price.


Oh, God... Please, NO! I really don't believe the Model S would be _'improved' _by mimicking the interior design themes of a Porsche Panamera Executive/Exclusive Series: vehicles Tesla already outsells by a wide, wide margin.

No need for HaterAde screens. Such _'entertainment'_ systems cost far too much and are always, always, ALWAYS practically useless within two years due to the advancement of technology. Better for passengers to bring their own mobile devices and Bluetooth headsets -- because they'll end up doing that anyway.


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## Steve C

Red Sage said:


> Oh, God... Please, NO! I really don't believe the Model S would be _'improved' _by mimicking the interior design themes of a Porsche Panamera Executive/Exclusive Series: vehicles Tesla already outsells by a wide, wide margin.
> 
> No need for HaterAde screens. Such _'entertainment'_ systems cost far too much and are always, always, ALWAYS practically useless within two years due to the advancement of technology. Better for passengers to bring their own mobile devices and Bluetooth headsets -- because they'll end up doing that anyway.


They at least need it as an option. There are a lot of buyers that would appreciate a better rear seating area. By better I mean more luxurious. Make it an option so the Chinese market can have what they want, and you could have what you want.


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## Michael Russo

As long as they can maintain such a lead position in NA, as well as increasing it in other key markets around the world, which will imply 'reinventing' the model at the end of each cycle & continuous improvements via OTA, there be a great future for Model S in the T≡SLA range! 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/826924001729536001


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## Red Sage

Steve C said:


> They at least need it as an option. There are a lot of buyers that would appreciate a better rear seating area. By better I mean more luxurious. Make it an option so the Chinese market can have what they want, and you could have what you want.


The 'option' already exists. A Tesla Model S 100D costs many tens of thousands of dollars less than a Panamera Turbo S. And you can still add a $25,000 interior option package to the Porsche. With the $30,000-to-$50,000 difference in price well heeled Tesla enthusiasts can visit a custom automotive upholstery firm to modify their car to be exactly as they wish. I'm sure the guys at West Coast Customs or TSportline or Unplugged Performance or Saleen or whatever would love to get the work!


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## Kennethbokor

Michael Russo said:


> As long as they can maintain such a lead position in NA, as well as increasing it in other key markets around the world, which will imply 'reinventing' the model at the end of each cycle & continuous improvements via OTA, there be a great future for Model S in the T≡SLA range!
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/826924001729536001


Hi agree, every auto manufacturer has multiple products and lines so I don't see the S going away any time soon. It's been the real launch and success for Tesla to get them to the X and now soon Model 3. Remember, BEV's only make up about 1% of the entire global auto sales, so there is a ton of growth potential for Tesla and the S is a stalwart for that growth as will the Model 3.


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## Rick59

Kennethbokor said:


> Hi agree, every auto manufacturer has multiple products and lines so I don't see the S going away any time soon. It's been the real launch and success for Tesla to get them to the X and now soon Model 3. Remember, BEV's only make up about 1% of the entire global auto sales, so there is a ton of growth potential for Tesla and the S is a stalwart for that growth as will the Model 3.


Kenneth, you should stay active on this forum, even after what's-his-name returns.


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## Kennethbokor

Thanks, I try it's just finding the time. My full time job is busy and I tend to travel a couple of dozen weekends a year and still try to be a husband/father to my family! Yes I will try to be more active thanks.


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## Steve C

Red Sage said:


> The 'option' already exists. I'm sure the guys at West Coast Customs or TSportline or Unplugged Performance or Saleen or whatever would love to get the work!


That's not the kind of option I was hoping for.


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## Red Sage

Steve C said:


> That's not the kind of option I was hoping for.


Understood. It's just that I suspect that as was the case with the now defunct, but loudly requested four seat _'Executive Seating'_ option for Model S, the uptake on a _'more luxurious'_ version of the overall interior would be rather minimal to practically nonexistent. And, I reiterate what the Tesla Design Team has stated with firmness: They are *NOT* going to change the interior design themes of their cars to match those of other, traditional automobile manufacturers. They compared it to the difference between a Victorian Era home and a Mid-Century Modern house. Each could be expensive, neither will be cheap, but they do not have the same aesthetic presence. I like to say that Tesla is not a luxury car company. They build expensive, performance, economy cars.


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## Steve C

Red Sage said:


> Understood. It's just that I suspect that as was the case with the now defunct, but loudly requested four seat _'Executive Seating'_ option for Model S, the uptake on a _'more luxurious'_ version of the overall interior would be rather minimal to practically nonexistent. And, I reiterate what the Tesla Design Team has stated with firmness: They are *NOT* going to change the interior design themes of their cars to match those of other, traditional automobile manufacturers. They compared it to the difference between a Victorian Era home and a Mid-Century Modern house. Each could be expensive, neither will be cheap, but they do not have the same aesthetic presence. I like to say that Tesla is not a luxury car company. They build expensive, performance, economy cars.


All of those pictures are beautiful.

At some point the interior is going to have to change in order for the seats to face each other.... at least as an option. **** is going to get crazy 

When do you think that will happen on Tesla's guys/gals? I'd love to hear the opinions of everyone here. Especially the top posters and @TrevP


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## Red Sage

Coachwork. More than just a logo.


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## Red Sage

@Steve C -- Well, that's part of the reason I think there may be a Tesla Model L six passenger pullman limousine some day. Of course, that configuration may not be necessary any more, with autonomous systems becoming available. Mercedes-Benz had an interesting concept though... the _'F015 Luxury in Motion'_ :


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## Michael Russo

As we all await with high anticipation for Model ≡ launch, Daniel Sparks is attempting to address the question which is at the origin of this thread:
https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/02/22/can-tesla-inc-grow-model-s-sales-in-2017.aspx


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