# Ford F-150 Lightning to be unveiled



## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Being that the F-150 has been the number one selling vehicle since I was born I truly feel the electrification of the F150 will do absolute wonders for EV adoption. More then anything since, well, Tesla started selling cars :laughing:


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## TrevP (Oct 20, 2015)

I hope so and welcome an EV F-150 but many die hard truck guys have a superiority complex about gas and will look down upon it


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

I really would like to see both Tesla and Rivian ship out several hundred thousand pickups before Ford shows up to shut down the show.
Here's the teaser:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1391785101328011269
Note the fine print says "Available Spring 2022"


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

JWardell said:


> I really would like to see both Tesla and Rivian ship out several hundred thousand pickups before Ford shows up to shut down the show.
> Here's the teaser:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1391785101328011269


My thought too. This seems like trouble for Rivian.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Sure looks like Ford is coming up in the EV field. I’ve already seen a couple MachE around my area.

competition is good and I look forward to seeing how it shapes Tesla evolve.


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## lance.bailey (Apr 1, 2019)

I cannot see how the cybertruck will be serious competition to the EV Ford F-150 Lightning thingy.


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

I actually welcome Ford's effort to join the EV transition wholeheartedly instead of fighting it or stopping with compliance cars. The game is on!


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## NR4P (Jul 14, 2018)

The F150 EV will be terrific for EV adoption and convince many folks to stop bashing Tesla. Pickup truck owners often harass Tesla drivers sometimes blowing coal and an EV F150 will be a breath of fresh air (ba da dum).


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

lance.bailey said:


> I cannot see how the cybertruck will be serious competition to the EV Ford F-150 Lightning thingy.


I'd be shocked if the F-150 Lightning can be sold for anywhere _near_ the Cybertruck's $39,900 base price. The Mustang Mach-e can't even beat that price. It's probably going to be a $70k+ truck.

The cybertuck's weird look is a direct result of Tesla pushing a weight-saving (and wind-cheating) design to the extreme, which allows the vehicle to get decent range out of a smaller battery pack. And a smaller pack means it costs less to produce.


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

garsh said:


> I'd be shocked if the F-150 Lightning can be sold for anywhere _near_ the Cybertruck's $39,900 base price. The Mustang Mach-e can't even beat that price. It's probably going to be an $70k+ truck.


At this moment, Rivian was the first to announce, and therefore sets the price - so the F-150 Lightning pricing won't be much different than that. When EV's become more commonplace and occupy a spot in low-end vehicles, then we'll see some real price competition.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

JasonF said:


> At this moment, Rivian was the first to announce, and therefore sets the price - so the F-150 Lightning pricing won't be much different than that. When EV's become more commonplace and occupy a spot in low-end vehicles, then we'll see some real price competition.


Even the R1T starts at $60k after federal credit, which is $10k more then the dual motor CyberTruck. Unless Ford pulls a great surprise the presumption is it'd also start at $60k.

Though I feel that the CT is aimed at a different segment. Like others have said, the hardcore truck loyalists likely aren't going to opt for the CT in masse. No matter how favorably it compares to competing trucks. The design was a huge roll of the dice by Tesla. While that design likely gives them higher profit margins per vehicle, they're not gonna sell in volume compared to others. Which is likely the better option seeing how battery constrained the industry is.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

shareef777 said:


> Like others have said, the hardcore truck loyalists likely aren't going to opt for the CT in masse. No matter how favorably it compares to competing trucks.


I think you're over-estimating the percentage of truck buyers that fall into the "hardcore loyalist" camp. They're not going to matter.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

garsh said:


> I think you're over-estimating the percentage of truck buyers that fall into the "hardcore loyalist" camp. They're not going to matter.


Not hardcore to a particular brand, just hardcore to the traditional truck style, or really any vehicle style. I don't know anyone that has talked about the CT in a kind manner.


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## lance.bailey (Apr 1, 2019)

shareef777 said:


> Not hardcore to a particular brand, just hardcore to the traditional truck style, or really any vehicle style. I don't know anyone that has talked about the CT in a kind manner.


yep, the traditional pickup - be it RAM, Chevy, Ford, Tacoma is a proven design. HOw many here remember the Mazda B2200 or going back to the 70's the Datsun mini-pickup? the cab with a bed behind is tried and true. And even as Ford/Chevy/Ram/Tacoma try to turn it into a family vehicle with second row full size seats and DVD players and expresso makers, the basic shape remains.

My Dad used to insist that a truck bed had to fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood in the back flat on the floor. Few trucks are able to do that, but the shape remains.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

lance.bailey said:


> yep, the traditional pickup - be it RAM, Chevy, Ford, Tacoma is a proven design. HOw many here remember the Mazda B2200 or going back to the 70's the Datsun mini-pickup? the cab with a bed behind is tried and true. And even as Ford/Chevy/Ram/Tacoma try to turn it into a family vehicle with second row full size seats and DVD players and expresso makers, the basic shape remains.
> 
> My Dad used to insist that a truck bed had to fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood in the back flat on the floor. Few trucks are able to do that, but the shape remains.


My brother picked up a 2020 Ram 1500 Limited (I think, don't know much details other then it's all blacked out with a bunch of bells and whistles). It's crazy how much luxury they put into that truck that he got for $62k OTD. The back might as well have come with massaging and reclining chairs considering how much space was back there. I mean, it's a MASSIVE truck. Here it is next to my Pilot (a 3 row SUV). Maybe I'm stereotyping, but it seems truck guys generally go for this.

Also, he gets about 12mpg  with a 0-60 time of next business day:laughing:


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

shareef777 said:


> Also, he gets about 12mpg


They're still allowed to produce trucks with mpg that low?


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

garsh said:


> I think you're over-estimating the percentage of truck buyers that fall into the "hardcore loyalist" camp. They're not going to matter.


I have to disagree. The truck market in the US is the strongest market there is and a big majority of them are huge loyalists, especially between Ford and GM. Those that don't care drive a RAM or something else.

I haven't read all the details on the Lightning, but if it is a specialty truck like the Lightning has been in the past, then it is not set up for the mass market anyway. It is a specialty market, it always was for the Lightning name. If it means something new and it is just the new brand for the standard Crew Cab half ton King Ranch/Platinum crowd, hold on. It will get attention and generate sales. Keep in mind the Platinum and King Ranch can already easily hit $70K when you add on the options and Ford is already equipping the current models for their auto-drive systems. Taking the KR/Platinum and dropping in EV components will piss off some Fanboys like the Mach-E has with Mustang, but it is also enough that Ford loyalists will line up in droves and they will never take a look at Tesla.

Do not underestimate the GM/Ford truck loyalists.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

iChris93 said:


> They're still allowed to produce trucks with mpg that low?


Could be a bit of exaggeration in light of his following "next business day" comment...


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

FRC said:


> Could be a bit of exaggeration in light of his following "next business day" comment...


I don't know, I had a 1982 Mercedes 240D that I measured the 0-60 with a calendar, instead of a clock!


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## lance.bailey (Apr 1, 2019)

shareef777 said:


> My brother picked up a 2020 Ram 1500 Limited (I think, don't know much details other then it's all blacked out with a bunch of bells and whistles). It's crazy how much luxury they put into that truck that he got for $62k OTD. The back might as well have come with massaging and reclining chairs considering how much space was back there. I mean, it's a MASSIVE truck. Here it is next to my Pilot (a 3 row SUV). Maybe I'm stereotyping, but it seems truck guys generally go for this.


what kind of garage makes that size of truck look small?

I particularly like the view of the charger on the back wall behind the truck


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

shareef777 said:


> My brother picked up a 2020 Ram 1500 Limited (I think, don't know much details other then it's all blacked out with a bunch of bells and whistles). It's crazy how much luxury they put into that truck that he got for $62k OTD. The back might as well have come with massaging and reclining chairs considering how much space was back there. I mean, it's a MASSIVE truck. Here it is next to my Pilot (a 3 row SUV). Maybe I'm stereotyping, but it seems truck guys generally go for this.
> 
> Also, he gets about 12mpg  with a 0-60 time of next business day:laughing:
> 
> View attachment 38362


I don't know much about Ram, as I'm not a fan and even dissed them in my earlier post. However I know that Ford does have heated/cooled and MASSAGING seats in the upper trim F150's - King Ranch, Platinum and Limited, likely the Raptor too. Have had for a few years. And there is the 0-60 time of 5.1 for the new Powerboost engine and 5.3 for the Ecoboost which is a hugely popular engine in probably at least half of the F150's made https://www.0-60specs.com/ford/. Compare that to the SR Model 3 - 0-60 of 5.3 seconds.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

lance.bailey said:


> what kind of garage makes that size of truck look small?
> 
> I particularly like the view of the charger on the back wall behind the truck


I'd love to be able to build a new house - I'd do what my nephew just did. 2,000 sq ft house and close to 800 sq ft garage. 3 doors, 10 ' ceiling, room for the truck, the car, the side by side, the dog kennel, the above ground safe room and more to spare for storage and setting up a saw or two if needed.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

FRC said:


> Could be a bit of exaggeration in light of his following "next business day" comment...


Sadly, 12mpg is what his dash is reporting and based on his $100+ weekly fill up, is pretty accurate. As for the 0-60, it's pretty damn slow. RAM also makes a TRX version which is pretty quick for a truck, but that gets ~9mpg.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

GDN said:


> I don't know much about Ram, as I'm not a fan and even dissed them in my earlier post. However I know that Ford does have heated/cooled and MASSAGING seats in the upper trim F150's - King Ranch, Platinum and Limited, likely the Raptor too. Have had for a few years. And there is the 0-60 time of 5.1 for the new Powerboost engine and 5.3 for the Ecoboost which is a hugely popular engine in probably at least half of the F150's made https://www.0-60specs.com/ford/. Compare that to the SR Model 3 - 0-60 of 5.3 seconds.


Has heated/cooled sits in front/back and the TRX model gets a 0-60 in ~4s. But man, these trucks are almost $100k when optioned out.


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

shareef777 said:


> Sadly, 12mpg is what his dash is reporting and based on his $100+ weekly fill up, is pretty accurate. As for the 0-60, it's pretty damn slow. RAM also makes a TRX version which is pretty quick for a truck, but that gets ~9mpg.


Damn


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

I moved all the cybertruck posts to the existing thread here:

https://teslaownersonline.com/threa...ertruck-to-the-ford-f150-and-ford-f250.14965/
We'll see if we can get this thread back to talking about the Ford F-150 Lightning.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

garsh said:


> I moved all the cybertruck posts to the existing thread here:
> 
> https://teslaownersonline.com/threa...ertruck-to-the-ford-f150-and-ford-f250.14965/
> We'll see if we can get this thread back to talking about the Ford F-150 Lightning.


I worked for that company for just a few years. At the end of the day I think we were better known for the commercial than the what we really did, at last few years of our existence.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

After the conversations in other threads and the lack of FSD and just still not being sold on the Cybertrucks looks, if Ford is close to the specs and price of the tri-motor Cybertruck, I'll be giving them a deposit. Neither will be able to get a truck in my hands for likely 18 months to 2 years so there will be time to compare true production models, but Tesla is slipping. The one disadvantage to Ford will be the Supercharger network. However I must say in 3 years neither of the current cars has been more than 200 miles from my house. A truck from any brand with a 400-500 mile range shouldn't have problems finding a charging option because just not that many will be needed.


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

GDN said:


> if Ford is close to the specs and price of the tri-motor Cybertruck


I'd be shocked if this were the case.


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

Live now: (Potato quality and snoozefest...any better streams?)


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

There were some leaks earlier today - was not too impressed by the range/battery specs that leaked - will see what happens from the reveal which is on live:


Will be built at the Rouge factory in the US
Copied the full front light bar from the Cybertruck
Can reverse power to power the house - Intelligent backup power
Ford Pass - 63,000 chargers
Fastest acceleration of any F150
4 drive modes - Normal, Sport, Off Road, & Towing (Thanks @Kizzy for helping with that)
AWD all the time
9.6 Kw available on board - 11 outlets
Supercrew cab style - buckets in front - seats 5
Onboard scales analyze the payload for load and towing to accurately calculate range
15.5" center screen - running Sync 4A
Smarthitch
All new frame - strongest steel in an F150
Tow up to 10K pounds
Skid plates to protect motors and battery - waterproof battery
770 ft/lbs torque
just under 600 HP
mid 4 sec 0-60
Power Frunk - 400 liters of space, 400 pound capability, 4 plugs
Luxury /Technology
Hands Free driving - Ford Blue Cruise,
Ford PowerUps - over the air updates
300 Mile Range with Extended Range
Dual onboard chargers
$39,974 USD- starting price before any credits
40% less moving parts
MachE - GT Performance version rolled on to stage
ETransit - number 1 commercial van in the world per Ford - rolled on to stage
Reserve online now- $100
Closing Video


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## NR4P (Jul 14, 2018)

I am not a truck kind of person, but it was pretty impressive. Ford's reverse power to power your home in an emergency is a very good idea. Also to power things at job sites. This will be a catalyst to overall EV sales. And mid 2022 shipment, so Ford is serious.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Above are just facts I captured - all I can say now is I'm UNDER whelmed. The first minutes of the video just praised their unions, not a positive for me. 300 mile range, shared Ford Pass chargers. No details about the dual motors, nothing else about the batteries, nothing more about the amenities inside, but I would have to think it should be built with equivalent cabin of the Platinum. I really thought I might be giving the $100 to keep a place in line, but I don't think I have a need. They needed to be on par with the Cybertruck specs and overwhelm me - and they didn't. It does retain their standard pickup look which I expected and is what will likely keep 90% of Ford pickup drivers in a Ford.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

NR4P said:


> I am not a truck kind of person, but it was pretty impressive. Ford's reverse power to power your home in an emergency is a very good idea. Also to power things at job sites. This will be a catalyst to overall EV sales. And mid 2022 shipment, so Ford is serious.


The reverse power has come up before and since the Cybertruck will also have 120 and 240 outlets on board, I'm quite certain Tesla will have the reverse power to the home/grid as well. Will be interesting to see if they can meet mid 2022.


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

Underwhelming to me, especially range.
The only thing that surprised me was the 11 AC outlets. I am glad Ford is jumping all over V2L and is using Texas's failures as an advertising point.


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## TrevP (Oct 20, 2015)

JWardell said:


> Underwhelming to me, especially range.
> The only thing that surprised me was the 11 AC outlets. I am glad Ford is jumping all over V2L and is using Texas's failures as an advertising point.


Agree on the range thing but keep in mind, Ford doesn't have Gigafactories like Tesla does to help drive down battery costs rapidly. They're buying from others which drives up the cost and also, Ford is known for beancounters who have their fingers in every pie in Detroit.

They know where they need to be in terms of price so the truck is designed and built to meet price and profit targets. Tesla does this too but they go about it from a physics first principle which resulted in well... the way Cybertruck looks. That's their way of meeting price targets, by rethinking the way they built it, Ford is focussed on reusing parts to keep costs down.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

TrevP said:


> Agree on the range thing but keep in mind, Ford doesn't have Gigafactories like Tesla does to help drive down battery costs rapidly. They're buying from others which drives up the cost and also, Ford is known for beancounters who have their fingers in every pie in Detroit.
> 
> They know where they need to be in terms of price so the truck is designed and built to meet price and profit targets. Tesla does this too but they go about it from a physics first principle which resulted in well... the way Cybertruck looks. That's their way of meeting price targets, by rethinking the way they built it, Ford is focussed on reusing parts to keep costs down.


They are also not going to abandon their current customer that keeps them in that number 1 spot. This version is targeted for their consumer that never takes that truck off road nor pulls. 300 mile range just isn't enough for anything more.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Put an order in. Can’t say no to $32500 after federal credit for a dual motor EV. It’ll sell like hot cakes and while I doubt I’ll keep it long term it’ll sell out for long enough that I can offload it for at least what I paid.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

shareef777 said:


> Put an order in. Can't say no to $32500 after federal credit for a dual motor EV. It'll sell like hot cakes and while I doubt I'll keep it long term it'll sell out for long enough that I can offload it for at least what I paid.


That price does belong to the fleet version - there is other information already out - the XLT starts low $50's. To get one decently spec'd whether you start with an XLT or Lariat or Platinum, to get decent specs you'll be low $60's at a minimum. To get it all - Platinum you'll be at the tri-motor Cybertruck price with 200 miles less range and not anywhere close on 0-60 performance. Cybertruck will have air suspension and likely vehicle to grid as it will also have power outlets on board.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

So I already waffled, just in case Elon and Tesla do something crazy - I'm in for $100 to be in line at Ford, but I think it will be a cold day in you know where before I ever exercise that and pass on the Cybertruck.


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

I was more interested in that Ford used the Mach-E interior in the F-150 Lightning. Though they're not quite as brave with transforming interiors as Tesla is, they're definitely taking a lot of cues from Tesla (especially the large screen and software updates). Now that they have an EV pickup and a crossover - two of their biggest sellers - all they need is to work on their charging network and reducing the prices, and they'll be a contender as one of the leaders in the EV market.

Competition in the EV market is a good thing. The game is on!


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## Kizzy (Jul 25, 2016)

GDN said:


> There were some leaks earlier today - was not too impressed by the range/battery specs that leaked - will see what happens from the reveal which is on live:
> 
> 
> […]
> ...


And a towing mode.

I was really happy to see that frunk.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Kizzy said:


> And a towing mode.
> 
> I was really happy to see that frunk.


Thanks - I'll update it, I didn't rewind to catch number 4.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

GDN said:


> That price does belong to the fleet version - there is other information already out - the XLT starts low $50's. To get one decently spec'd whether you start with an XLT or Lariat or Platinum, to get decent specs you'll be low $60's at a minimum. To get it all - Platinum you'll be at the tri-motor Cybertruck price with 200 miles less range and not anywhere close on 0-60 performance. Cybertruck will have air suspension and likely vehicle to grid as it will also have power outlets on board.


Yeah, I'm not expecting much for $32k, but dual motors and 200mi range in a pickup is pretty good. And $100 isn't much to get in line for one year.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

garsh said:


> I'd be shocked if the F-150 Lightning can be sold for anywhere _near_ the Cybertruck's $39,900 base price. The Mustang Mach-e can't even beat that price. It's probably going to be a $70k+ truck.


Color me shocked. :dizzy:

However, they used some weasel-words when introducing the price.

The $40k version is "aimed at commercial use". Is this a subtle way of saying "won't be available to retail consumers"?
How many do they plan to make? This is probably just a "loss-leader" version that allows them to advertise a $40k starting price - I doubt they're planning to make any volume. They can't source the batteries.
There's still the dealer network to contend with. Be prepared for initial prices having dealer-added $10k fees.
All that said, I was actually quite happy with everything they introduced! I never expected them to be able to match the Cybertruck's range - Ford is just too far behind Tesla in battery/powertrain development. But everything else about the truck sounds like a home-run. Sure, it might not be for many of us here who see this as inferior to a cybertruck. But to all of the other non-Tesla-owning truck buyers, this is something that they will actually consider if their circumstances allow the low range to be acceptable. That's actually a HUGE market.

I have to give Ford credit - between the Mustang Mach-E and this new F-150 Lightning, they're making very good moves for entering the EV era. As @Jason F said, they've targeted the two largest North American vehicle segments, and their offerings are better than every other non-Tesla in those markets. I think this is a perfect strategy by Ford. We'll see if they're able to source enough batteries quickly enough to actually grow production of these offerings to reasonable levels.


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

garsh said:


> I have to give Ford credit - between the Mustang Mach-E and this new F-150 Lightning, they're making very good moves for entering the EV era. As @Jason F said, they've targeted the two largest North American vehicle segments, and their offerings are better than every other non-Tesla in those markets. I think this is a perfect strategy by Ford. We'll see if they're able to source enough batteries quickly enough to actually grow production of these offerings to reasonable levels.


Further, after glancing at their web site, they've electrified half of their consumer platforms (or more than half if you consider commercial platforms) - the only ones left to electrify are their single sedan platform and their large SUV platform, and they might be considering whether to even keep those.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Competition is good - while I sometimes wish for just a "Little" more out of Tesla's interiors, this truck will put everyone on notice. GM won't be far behind with their offering. The one key feature I hope it can push Tesla to do is the Vehicle to Grid. I truly figure it is already there and just not talked about, but that feature needs to be on the Cybertruck.


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

GDN said:


> Competition is good - while I sometimes wish for just a "Little" more out of Tesla's interiors, this truck will put everyone on notice. GM won't be far behind with their offering. The one key feature I hope it can push Tesla to do is the Vehicle to Grid. I truly figure it is already there and just not talked about, but that feature needs to be on the Cybertruck.


This is a very loud and powerful notice! Most companies except Tesla so far have been introducing EV's as compliance cars or luxury options, not really taking the segment seriously, and basically waiting until the EV trend blows over so they can cancel those models and move on. Ford looks like it expects the Lightning to be a top seller. That's a complete turnaround from what the industry was telling them.

Between that and Mazda entering the EV market (which looks suspiciously like they have a partnership with Ford!), Toyota, Honda, and Mitsubishi, with their investment only in hybrids, are likely going to go into full panic mode in the next year. General Motors might drag their feet a little longer to wait and see how the Lightning sells before jumping in themselves - they're probably going to be last to take action, and keep dangling the promise of switching everything to EV "soon".


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

JasonF said:


> This is a very loud and powerful notice! Most companies except Tesla so far have been introducing EV's as compliance cars or luxury options, not really taking the segment seriously, and basically waiting until the EV trend blows over so they can cancel those models and move on. Ford looks like it expects the Lightning to be a top seller. That's a complete turnaround from what the industry was telling them.
> 
> Between that and Mazda entering the EV market (which looks suspiciously like they have a partnership with Ford!), Toyota, Honda, and Mitsubishi, with their investment only in hybrids, are likely going to go into full panic mode in the next year. General Motors might drag their feet a little longer to wait and see how the Lightning sells before jumping in themselves - they're probably going to be last to take action, and keep dangling the promise of switching everything to EV "soon".


GM will be in a world of pain if they wait till AFTER Ford starts to deliver the f-150ev to produce one. Right now most trucks are on an even stage. But if Ford owners start gloating about "filling up" at home, the huge amount of extra cargo space in the frunk, and just the overall smoother experience of owning an EV. Then the GM owner will go back to their dealership asking for something similar, the dealership will ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, and the customer will go across the street and buy a Ford. GM needs to have an answer in the pipeline or ready to be built when Ford starts deliveries.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

GM is screwed, methinks. Hummer EV Pickup is over 9,000 lbs with options? YOINKS! 

Ford crushed it with this one. Absolutely crushed it. Only thing they could do better is improve efficiency. I can't see a reason to buy an ICE F150 over this unless you routinely go long miles loaded up or towing. 

Bravo Ford, good job!


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## lance.bailey (Apr 1, 2019)

A subtle, but telling point of interest. This morning I read an article on this release announcement and I noticed that they made a mention of Telsa's Cybertruck.

Once. In Passing. Amongst a handful of other EV truck initiatives.

Not so long ago any EV article in the mainstream press about any other EV vehicle (car/truck/semi) company went something like this:

Other company. Tesla Tesla Telsa, Elon, Telsa Tesla, Elon, Tesla. Other company. Tesla.​
Tesla was the one to beat, Tesla set the bar that seemingly no one else could reach. But now, particularly in truck-land, Telsa is a passing mention and nothing more.

The tide is shifting and I see that Ford will be the one to beat for trucks and Tesla for cars. Perhaps this is why Ford is making a conscious focus change to trucks over cars because that is where they will win.


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## gary in NY (Dec 2, 2018)

Is the range EPA certified yet, and what method do they use? There have been plenty of real world tests showing that the lower EPA rated range vehicles consistently beat those estimates, and the higher ones (like ours) seldom reach the EPA range. Mine has not come close to 310 miles.

Most trucks are mall crawlers which never leave the pavement or have anything in tow. Those owners will be happy with the style and despite the anxiety, the range will be fine. But hook up a trailer and your going to have a different experience, loosing up to half your range. (My bike rack on the 3 at highway speeds knocks off 100 miles of range)

In time, as the infrastructure and technology evolve, this will matter less. But we are still in the early days of the current EV transition, so people will need either a stronger commitment or more incentive to change.


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## JMart (Sep 12, 2017)

It looks like Ford is pretty excited about 20k reservations in the first 12 hours or so. I would have thought it would have been more. I made one this morning, but just as an option. I still expect to use my cybertruck reservation and not the Ford.
F-150 Lightning: Ford already has 20K reservations for new electric pickup (cnbc.com)


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## Tucker (May 30, 2017)

reserved mine this morning. Time to ditch the diesel I have now


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

lance.bailey said:


> A subtle, but telling point of interest. This morning I read an article on this release announcement and I noticed that they made a mention of Telsa's Cybertruck.
> 
> Once. In Passing. Amongst a handful of other EV truck initiatives.
> 
> ...


I won't disagree with the assessment - it is good to see different competition. I think on the other hand there are many good reasons they don't want to mention Tesla:

Cybertruck battery capacity beats Ford
Cybertruck range beats Ford
Cybertruck pulling beats Ford
Cybertruck price for the top level trim beats Ford by $10K or so (includes FSD and Blue Cruise) 
I like Ford, used to drive one and they do have some advantages - the interior will almost guaranteed be considered more luxurious by most owners. I loved and miss my "ventilated/cooled" seats I had in my Ford. My sister-in-law now has the massaging version of those seats and we all laughed at such a thing in a vehicle, but they love them. Tesla doesn't seem to be on par to bring to the table.

Just another observation as to why Ford maybe didn't mention Tesla.


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## 21EV (Mar 11, 2021)

The F-150 Lightning is very compelling. The Cybertruck, like the Model X, has an unconventional design that makes using regular accessories difficult or impossible (think roof rack and standard truck bed accessories). The range also seems comparable with the exception of the top-line tri-motor Cybertruck. The one thing Ford is missing is a reliable DC charging network but a few companies are building those out so in a year or two that likely won’t be much of a concern for many people.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

gary in NY said:


> Is the range EPA certified yet, and what method do they use? There have been plenty of real world tests showing that the lower EPA rated range vehicles consistently beat those estimates, and the higher ones (like ours) seldom reach the EPA range. Mine has not come close to 310 miles.
> 
> Most trucks are mall crawlers which never leave the pavement or have anything in tow. Those owners will be happy with the style and despite the anxiety, the range will be fine. But hook up a trailer and your going to have a different experience, loosing up to half your range. (My bike rack on the 3 at highway speeds knocks off 100 miles of range)
> 
> In time, as the infrastructure and technology evolve, this will matter less. But we are still in the early days of the current EV transition, so people will need either a stronger commitment or more incentive to change.


No it's not certified.

The Mustang Mach E routinely beats it's EPA rated range. I would expect same for this.

Tesla is one of the few that fails to routinely meet EPA range.

This truck is enough for at least 50% of pickup buyers, whereas a Model 3 is enough for 90% or better people. But, it's a good start. There are plenty of incentives to run this truck as a light utility vehicle or as a Mom-duty pickup.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

GDN said:


> I won't disagree with the assessment - it is good to see different competition. I think on the other hand there are many good reasons they don't want to mention Tesla:
> 
> Cybertruck battery capacity beats Ford
> Cybertruck range beats Ford
> ...


Advertised Cybertruck stats beats Ford. 
Cybertruck not near production
Stats subject to change and also typical Tesla inflation.

The comment wasn't about Ford not mentioning Tesla. It was about the mainstream press not mentioning them.


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## lance.bailey (Apr 1, 2019)

Needsdecaf said:


> The comment wasn't about Ford not mentioning Tesla. It was about the mainstream press not mentioning them.


exactly. While what the mainstream does may be only vaguely rooted in reality, it is a bellwether of sorts. For example, while the life of the Kardashirich may be unreal, the media interest certainly mirrors interest from the unwashed masses. When I see Tesla turn from a mainstream media darling to a side note amongst others, I find that telling.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

lance.bailey said:


> A subtle, but telling point of interest. This morning I read an article on this release announcement and I noticed that they made a mention of Telsa's Cybertruck.
> 
> Once. In Passing. Amongst a handful of other EV truck initiatives.
> 
> ...


Well they've been winning in the truck segment for a few decades so yeah, I don't think even Tesla is going to beat the undisputed king. Tesla's charging network and FSD is the only differentiator (aesthetics aside as that's a subjective decision when buying a vehicle). Most EV owners now understand that a MAJORITY of your charging is done at home so the former doesn't have a large impact, and the latter is pretty much vaporware.

Tesla really has to get the CT out the door if it wants it to survive. Not being a fanboy (I've done my fair share of complaining about Tesla), but I feel their technology IS superior to Ford/GM, but they need to get it out on the streets for people to see that. I've talked endlessly about how much I love my 3, but people just call me a nerd and/or fanboy. I'm shocked at the number of people jumping in on Tesla cars now (same ones that were name calling). These are people I'd of never thought as EV owners, but once they went just around the block in my 3 they were sold.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> Well they've been winning in the truck segment for a few decades so yeah, I don't think even Tesla is going to beat the undisputed king. Tesla's charging network and FSD is the only differentiator (aesthetics aside as that's a subjective decision when buying a vehicle). Most EV owners now understand that a MAJORITY of your charging is done at home so the former doesn't have a large impact, and the latter is pretty much vaporware.
> 
> Tesla really has to get the CT out the door if it wants it to survive. Not being a fanboy (I've done my fair share of complaining about Tesla), but I feel their technology IS superior to Ford/GM, but they need to get it out on the streets for people to see that. I've talked endlessly about how much I love my 3, but people just call me a nerd and/or fanboy. I'm shocked at the number of people jumping in on Tesla cars now (same ones that were name calling). These are people I'd of never thought as EV owners, but once they went just around the block in my 3 they were sold.


Drivetrain wise, Tesla tech is superior. The rest? I just don't see it.

Yeah, AP is nice, but honestly, the more newer ACC systems I drive, the more I realize Tesla's is fairly rough in comparison. And while their lane centering / keeping is still the best, IMO, the others are catching. My friend just picked up his second Volvo XC90 with Pilot Assist. The first one didn't come with it but he added it, and he said this new version is light years better and now pretty close to Tesla.

Infotainment: my honeymoon with Telsa is waning as Car Play, streaming audio and apps are more prevalent and better. I've yet to try Polestar / Volvo's Google infotainment but willing to bet it'll blow Tesla out of the water. And having a normal ICE rental this week has reminded me that sometimes, some buttons are nice. And auto wipers that work are a huge plus in a city that gets a lot of rain.

Moreover, I think that the real reason that Ford nailed this one is the frunk and the power. No seriously, hear me out. It's "cool" and "interesting" without being "gimmicky" (fart mode) or "weird / alienating" (Cybertruck exterior, buttonless interior). It'll appeal to all but the geekiest as "cool, neat" without having to make excuses because it looks like a movie prop.

I'm really impressed.


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> GM will be in a world of pain if they wait till AFTER Ford starts to deliver the f-150ev to produce one.


I'm not saying they won't be...I'm saying it's inevitable. GM's executive culture is still stuck in the mindset that EV's are a passing fad that will fade. The only reason they announced going all-electric by 2030 is because they don't think it will still be thing by then.

Toyota's executive culture is stick in a similar mindset. They still insist that hybrids offer the best value to customers. We'll see if they let go of that now that Mazda is getting involved. Honda and Mitsubishi tend to be followers, so they might follow Mazda's lead or they might wait for Toyota.


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

Needsdecaf said:


> The Mustang Mach E routinely beats it's EPA rated range. I would expect same for this.
> 
> Tesla is one of the few that fails to routinely meet EPA range.


This is because of efficiency. The more efficient the drivetrains are, the more little things like temperature and tire pressure impact things.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

iChris93 said:


> This is because of efficiency. The more efficient the drivetrains are, the more little things like temperature and tire pressure impact things.


Yes, have long suspected this.

Still, not keen on a published range figure that is all but unachievable in real world driving. Most people equate "range" to "how long can I drive on the highway" and there, Tesla falls flat due to aero.


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## 21EV (Mar 11, 2021)

Needsdecaf said:


> Yes, have long suspected this.
> 
> Still, not keen on a published range figure that is all but unachievable in real world driving. Most people equate "range" to "how long can I drive on the highway" and there, Tesla falls flat due to aero.


My thoughts on this exact topic are that the EPA numbers should be something akin to the city/highway/combined figures for ICE cars. It would be easier to compare. The website fueleconomy.gov does allow somewhat of a comparison and the ability to personalize your evaluation based on driving mix and fuel/electricity costs so something like that helps.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Needsdecaf said:


> The Mustang Mach E routinely beats it's EPA rated range. I would expect same for this.
> Tesla is one of the few that fails to routinely meet EPA range.





iChris93 said:


> This is because of efficiency. The more efficient the drivetrains are, the more little things like temperature and tire pressure impact things.


Yep, exactly. 
This post explains things a little bit more.

I'd rather see a simple "range at 70mph" rating than these EPA range estimates. The only time I care about range is on long trips, and I'm usually driving at highway speeds on those trips. "City" range is pretty pointless now that small battery EVs like the original Nissan Leaf are no longer the norm.


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## gary in NY (Dec 2, 2018)

garsh said:


> Yep, exactly.
> This post explains things a little bit more.
> 
> I'd rather see a simple "range at 70mph" rating than these EPA range estimates. The only time I care about range is on long trips, and I'm usually driving at highway speeds on those trips. "City" range is pretty pointless now that small battery EVs like the original Nissan Leaf are no longer the norm.


That, or all EVs use the same EPA testing protocol.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

garsh said:


> Yep, exactly.
> This post explains things a little bit more.
> 
> I'd rather see a simple "range at 70mph" rating than these EPA range estimates. The only time I care about range is on long trips, and I'm usually driving at highway speeds on those trips. "City" range is pretty pointless now that small battery EVs like the original Nissan Leaf are no longer the norm.


With ICE vehicles all I ever cared about was city mpg as even on the highway stop/go traffic would kill my "highway" mpg. Now with an EV all I care about is my highway efficiency as it'd limit my need for stopping at a SC while my local doesn't really matter since I'm able to "top-off" every night when I get home.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

gary in NY said:


> That, or all EVs use the same EPA testing protocol.


Where did you get the idea that they use different protocols?
They DO all use the same protocol. It's just that the protocol as designed results in higher but hard-to-obtain-in-the-real-world values for the more efficient vehicles.


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## gary in NY (Dec 2, 2018)

garsh said:


> Where did you get the idea that they use different protocols?
> They DO all use the same protocol. It's just that the protocol as designed results in higher but hard-to-obtain-in-the-real-world values for the more efficient vehicles.


We are getting way off into the weeds, but IIRC, Ben Sullins did a deep dive on the testing, and found there are options the manufacturer can choose during the test that can vary the results. He may have done more than one video about it over the years, but I'm pretty sure he did one after the Edmonds real world range test. I see if I can find the video(s).






At 3:17 he mentions the correction factor to the test results, and that the manufacturer can skip phases of the test. The EPA allows one of 4 correction factors to be used:

 by multiplying city/highway fuel economy and range values by 0.7 and dividing city/highway energy consumption and CO2 values by 0.7;
 using the derived 5-cycle method described in 40 CFR 600.210-12(a)(2) and EPA guidance letter CD-15- 15, June 22, 2015 (available at https://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/dearmfr/dearmfr.htm);
 using a method which is equivalent to the vehicle specific 5-cycle method described in 40 CFR 600.210- 12(a)(1) (with prior EPA approval) such as the method provided in Appendix B of SAE J1634 July 2017 Recommended Practice;
 using adjustment factors which are based on in-use data (with prior EPA approval).

Currently, most EVs use the first or third method (the 0.7 factor).
I thought I saw or read something about the skipped phases, but I can't find it now. So I don't know exactly what they are or how they might change the results.

It looks like steps within the testing can vary by manufacturer, and even by model being tested. However, it makes you wonder why the EPA test for the Tycan (201) came in so far below the "real world" results (around 325).


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

gary in NY said:


> Iirc, Ben Sullins did a deep dive on the testing, and found there are options the manufacturer can choose during the test that can vary the results. He may have done more than one video about it over the years, but I'm pretty sure he did one after the Edmonds real world range test. I see if I can find the video(s).


Correct. There are different correction factors one can apply after obtaining the test results. It depends on how many of the test scenarios were done.

So it's not all apples to apples.

Also, they're still using the ICE protocol adopted for EV's, basically. I think this test needs to be completely re-thought. The highway portion, as has been said, completely does not jive with real world highway results with most EV's.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

gary in NY said:


> At 3:17 he mentions the correction factor to the test results, and that the manufacturer can skip phases of the test.


Ben is good at statistics, but I wouldn't trust him as an authority for anything outside his wheelhouse.
Remember when he was telling everybody that the Model 3 was going to use 4416 cells, even though it was already announced that it would have 2170 cells?

I've not seen any other reports of manufacturers being allowed to simply "skip" any part of the test cycle.
The testing procedure itself seems rather rigorous with little room for changing anything about it.
How Does The EPA Calculate Electric Car Range?


gary in NY said:


> Currently, most EVs use the first or third method (the 0.7 factor).


Tesla did two things for the original LR-RWD Model 3:

They used the 0.7 factor, and ended up with a combined rating of 332 miles.
They then asked the EPA for a variance to allow them to only advertise 310 miles. The EPA granted the variance.



gary in NY said:


> However, it makes you wonder why the EPA test for the Tycan (201) came in so far below the "real world" results (around 325).


The Taycan is much less efficient than a Tesla. As I said earlier, less-efficient vehicles are less-affected by real-world environment differences.
I wish we could get a copy of the EPA testing results for the Taycan as we did for the original Tesla Model 3. It would probably help answer a lot of questions about how they arrived at their number.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

garsh said:


> Ben is good at statistics, but I wouldn't trust him as an authority for anything outside his wheelhouse.
> Remember when he was telling everybody that the Model 3 was going to use 4416 cells, even though it was already announced that it would have 2170 cells?
> 
> I've not seen any other reports of manufacturers being allowed to simply "skip" any part of the test cycle.
> ...


Remember, the day that the Taycan's EPA numbers were released, Porsche published an independent study (by AMCI) claiming that the range was nearly 20% more than the EPA rating. The Taycan just does not do well in the EPA's test, and I think it comes from two factors. Number 1, if you have a "range" mode, but it's _not the default mode, _you can't test in that mode. You have to test in whatever mode is default. Most people on long trips put the Taycan into range mode, and don't experience much of a downside for doing so. Number 2, the Taycan's regen strategies are not the same as Tesla. They use very little lift off / one pedal regen, and in some modes, use no liftoff regen whatsoever, preferring to coast. I think that leads to better real world economy, but punishes the car in test. The Taycan does have more regen kW potential than the Tesla, but as it's a blended braking pedal, I think that much of the regen gets lost in the EPA test.

Those are my two big theories. I've litterally been thinking about this for a year, and at one point I had found the EPA test methodology (i.e. the acceleration / speed / time chart that they use to run the test) and downloaded that. So after literally 12 months of applying my limited knowledge, lol, this is what I have come up with. That and $5.25 will buy you a cup of your favorite Starbucks diabetes inducing drink, so take it for what it's worth. But I believe that I'm more correct than not.


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## DanSz (Feb 1, 2019)

Kizzy said:


> And a towing mode.
> 
> I was really happy to see that frunk.


Finally, a company willing to use the word "frunk".

While, _Mega Power Frunk_ is a bit… _unoriginal_, its official. So call it a frunk, everyone. 
It's a frunk.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

DanSz said:


> Finally, a company willing to use the word "frunk".
> 
> While, _Mega Power Frunk_ is a bit… _unoriginal_, its official. So call it a frunk, everyone.
> It's a frunk.


Wasn't aware that there was any other term being used for the frunk.


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## Kizzy (Jul 25, 2016)

shareef777 said:


> Wasn't aware that there was any other term being used for the frunk.


Froot is sometimes used across the pond. 🙃


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Needsdecaf said:


> Remember, the day that the Taycan's EPA numbers were released, Porsche published an independent study (by AMCI) claiming that the range was nearly 20% more than the EPA rating. The Taycan just does not do well in the EPA's test, and I think it comes from two factors. Number 1, if you have a "range" mode, but it's _not the default mode, _you can't test in that mode. You have to test in whatever mode is default.


Ah yes. Excellent point. I remember the original Nissan Leaf getting punished because you could only charge it up to 80% by default. They changed it to charge to 100% by default for the following model year.



Needsdecaf said:


> Number 2, the Taycan's regen strategies are not the same as Tesla. They use very little lift off / one pedal regen, and in some modes, use no liftoff regen whatsoever, preferring to coast. I think that leads to better real world economy, but punishes the car in test. The Taycan does have more regen kW potential than the Tesla, but as it's a blended braking pedal, I think that much of the regen gets lost in the EPA test.


Having little off-pedal regen would definitely hurt in the city portion of the test.


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## lance.bailey (Apr 1, 2019)

Kizzy said:


> And a towing mode.
> 
> I was really happy to see that frunk.


one of my wife's first comments about the all-electric F-150 was that the frunk finally gives the pickup truck a secure, out of view, storage space.

bed caps are easily defeated and open beds even more accessible. the cab is surrounded by windows for "shopping" by thieves, but a frunk - now there is finally a solution for storage of small to medium items when you are at the beach, or in a store.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

lance.bailey said:


> one of my wife's first comments about the all-electric F-150 was that the frunk finally gives the pickup truck a secure, out of view, storage space.
> 
> bed caps are easily defeated and open beds even more accessible. the cab is surrounded by windows for "shopping" by thieves, but a frunk - now there is finally a solution for storage of small to medium items when you are at the beach, or in a store.


One of the coolest things I've seen in a pickup is the side storage compartments on my brothers Ram truck. Surprised more truck manufacturers don't do that. He's also got a storage area under the rear seats. The bottom of the seats lift up really easy and you can stow whatever you want so that when you put the seat back down they're out of view. Outside the 12mpg and 0-60 in forever issues, it's a really solid truck.


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## lance.bailey (Apr 1, 2019)

that is cool @shareef777 never knew about those. The Volvo 245 had huuuuge ... tracts of space in the side walls at the very back of the gargo section only accessible from the interior. Border guards used to give them a tap on their walk by to see if they rang true.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

shareef777 said:


> One of the coolest things I've seen in a pickup is the side storage compartments on my brothers Ram truck. Surprised more truck manufacturers don't do that. He's also got a storage area under the rear seats. The bottom of the seats lift up really easy and you can stow whatever you want so that when you put the seat back down they're out of view. Outside the 12mpg and 0-60 in forever issues, it's a really solid truck.


It works great for storage, but you have to remember the trucks beginning and general use - hauling things in the bed - most people want the space inside the bed, rather than giving it up to storage. Under the seat is a good option.

Very few people know this, but the Ford Supercrew rear seats will fold down from the back. It's not meant to be done on a daily basis as the release is hidden. You've got to work hard to get to it the first time, but then you can add a pull strap. The seats very easily fold up for a flat floor, but then if you wanted a hidden long storage area you could fold down from the back and store things right next to the back of the cab.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

GDN said:


> It works great for storage, but you have to remember the trucks beginning and general use - hauling things in the bed - most people want the space inside the bed, rather than giving it up to storage. Under the seat is a good option.
> 
> Very few people know this, but the Ford Supercrew rear seats will fold down from the back. It's not meant to be done on a daily basis as the release is hidden. You've got to work hard to get to it the first time, but then you can add a pull strap. The seats very easily fold up for a flat floor, but then if you wanted a hidden long storage area you could fold down from the back and store things right next to the back of the cab.


It's actually very well engineered. The "ram box" (as I found it's called) just converts the wasted space over the wheels. Between that or having the wheel wells protruding from the bed, seems the covered ram box would be the better option. The ram box actually has a drain hole too so that it could be used as a cooler. Though the mega, super, frunk the F150 has is even better.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Another thing I’m hoping Tesla finally provides is the powered frunk. Sad that it took 3rd parties and a legacy automaker to get their before Tesla.


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## DanSz (Feb 1, 2019)

shareef777 said:


> Another thing I'm hoping Tesla finally provides is the powered frunk. Sad that it took 3rd parties and a legacy automaker to get their before Tesla.


*There

No Legacy automaker is _there_, yet. These vehicles are not available, but merely announced.

We don't know what the CT is going to have on it. They didn't even show us the hatch in the bed at the announcement (just a picture and that doesn't count!).

I have to say the low lift-over design of the mega power frunk is very appealing and that unless Tesla has already redesigned the front end of CT for such a thing, it will be years before it gets such a feature.

Competition is good. Rivian will likely be first in August with a few hundred sold that quarter. It remains to be seen how this all works out. I have no doubt CT will do well.


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## Madmolecule (Oct 8, 2018)

If you know how to manufacture a truck, making it a EV is very easy. Making an electric vehicle simplifies everything. I believe it will be adopted in mass by the typical Ford truck enthusiast. I think it will happen just the same way the construction industry embraced tractors and other heavy duty equipment from Asian manufacturers. Nothing runs like a deer until you find something that runs a lot better and is cheaper and is reliable, And then you’re OK maybe there’s something to this.

There are still a lot of things I am not clear on on the cybertruck. Simple things like how much of it is stainless steel and how much of that is the SpaceX stainless. Will it only have a stainless steel battering ram and not a front crumples zone. I know there will be a lot of plastic like with every vehicle but how much other metals. I bought a real nice stainless steel gas grill that only had a few non-stainless components and once they rusted out you got to throw the whole thing out. Still not quite clear how an exoskeleton is repaired. I hope they don’t think it is so tough it will never need repairing.


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## MnLakeBum (Mar 17, 2021)

I read an interesting take on how unhappy many future EV pickup truck owners will be once they find out their real-world range. The trucks around here in MN are often used to haul, and tow stuff and range will be a serious issue in those situations. My 2015 Model S with a "new" refurbished battery that 100% SOC(241 miles) gets me about 200 real-world miles of range and only about 160 miles(66% of rated range) on a cold winter day. A Model S needs only about 24 hp to cruise on the highway at 70mph, while an F150 needs about 71 hp because it's much less aerodynamic. I can see an F150 Lightning extended range rated at 300 miles, only getting about 200 miles of range under ideal conditions at 75mph and 100 miles of range towing on the highway. That would not be enough for most truck owners around here to make it to their cabins up north without stopping for a recharge. I do believe the $70k Cybertruck with it's 500 mile range may be the only EV Pickup available in 2022 or 2023 with the bare minimum range for towing. 

FWIW, our Range Rover diesel has about 360 miles of range while towing and almost 600 miles when not towing. Almost everyone I know that tow regularly owns a diesel and EV battery technology is not yet viable for towing, especially in cold weather.


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## Mr. Spacely (Feb 28, 2019)

Towing a boat to a cabin up north might be an issue for EV trucks. But the primary user of F-150 is someone who likes the practicality of the truck bed for Home Depot runs or someone in construction who commutes less than 30 miles to job sites...


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

MnLakeBum said:


> I read an interesting take on how unhappy many future EV pickup truck owners will be once they find out their real-world range. The trucks around here in MN are often used to haul, and tow stuff and range will be a serious issue in those situations. My 2015 Model S with a "new" refurbished battery that 100% SOC(241 miles) gets me about 200 real-world miles of range and only about 160 miles(66% of rated range) on a cold winter day. A Model S needs only about 24 hp to cruise on the highway at 70mph, while an F150 needs about 71 hp because it's much less aerodynamic. I can see an F150 Lightning extended range rated at 300 miles, only getting about 200 miles of range under ideal conditions at 75mph and 100 miles of range towing on the highway. That would not be enough for most truck owners around here to make it to their cabins up north without stopping for a recharge. I do believe the $70k Cybertruck with it's 500 mile range may be the only EV Pickup available in 2022 or 2023 with the bare minimum range for towing.
> 
> FWIW, our Range Rover diesel has about 360 miles of range while towing and almost 600 miles when not towing. Almost everyone I know that tow regularly owns a diesel and EV battery technology is not yet viable for towing, especially in cold weather.


Agree - the initial buyers will only be those that want a Cowboy Cadillac - almost none of the current spec Lightnings will ever be used for real work. Might be a few vey light duty construction guys that work in small areas close to their business/home, but the majority will be daily drivers for people that don't drive far and rarely pull or work out of their truck and can charge at home.


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## lance.bailey (Apr 1, 2019)

the big hit in mileage is wind resistance and less so weight of what you are towing. Boats for example slice through the air as easily as they do water, although lumpy bits above the waterline will impact towing mileage.

my Dad had a 17' fishing boat that when flipped upside down on the 75 BelAir did nothing to affect mileage, and he joked that it improved mileage. When towing the 15' walk-in trailer the boat definitely reduced the hit on mileage by the trailer so when camping, even if not boating on that trip, the boat came along for the ride just to improve mileage. 

If not for my mom putting her foot down I suspect that the boat would have always lived upside down on the car.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Ford is getting ready to open the orders for the Lighting. They've sent an email to those with a reservations. Two things of note - they have a tag line I've not seen before "The only EV that's an F‑150" and they note they will take orders in staggered batches and not everyone is going to get one.

I hope Ford can put their big boy pants on and control their dealers, but I think it is going to be hilarious at the outrageous mark ups the dealers are likely to try and put on to the people that do order. I guess I'll have to wait and see if my number pops up, I don't think I'll do anything with it if it does, but only time will tell. I loved my last half ton, but I think the loaded version is going to be too rich for my blood.

https://m.s.email-ford.com/nl/jsp/[email protected]+dnl03cJjpNKtY1AJqaA0vRk=


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

GDN said:


> Ford is getting ready to open the orders for the Lighting. They've sent an email to those with a reservations. Two things of note - they have a tag line I've not seen before "The only EV that's an F‑150" and they note they will take orders in staggered batches and not everyone is going to get one.
> 
> I hope Ford can put their big boy pants on and control their dealers, but I think it is going to be hilarious at the outrageous mark ups the dealers are likely to try and put on to the people that do order. I guess I'll have to wait and see if my number pops up, I don't think I'll do anything with it if it does, but only time will tell. I loved my last half ton, but I think the loaded version is going to be too rich for my blood.
> 
> https://m.s.email-ford.com/nl/jsp/[email protected]+dnl03cJjpNKtY1AJqaA0vRk=


Got the email as well. I'd pay sticker for a Platinum, but not a dollar more. That's not to say I won't drag the dealer along for as long as I possibly can if they try to mark it up.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

shareef777 said:


> Got the email as well. I'd pay sticker for a Platinum, but not a dollar more. That's not to say I won't drag the dealer along for as long as I possibly can if they try to mark it up.


It will be interesting when they hit the road. My SIL has a 2019 Platinum. It is a great truck - has every option, heated and COOLED seats, massaging seats, complete configurable dash, full remote capabilities. There are so many things that want to draw me back - until you have to deal with that dealer. Of course many here are experiencing what it is like to buy direct without a dealer too. Tesla says jump and you don't - screw you, moving on to the next person. Tesla needs this competition badly.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

GDN said:


> It will be interesting when they hit the road. My SIL has a 2019 Platinum. It is a great truck - has every option, heated and COOLED seats, massaging seats, complete configurable dash, full remote capabilities. There are so many things that want to draw me back - until you have to deal with that dealer. Of course many here are experiencing what it is like to buy direct without a dealer too. Tesla says jump and you don't - screw you, moving on to the next person. Tesla needs this competition badly.


Yes, my parents owned a Ford Escape and I recall the issues of getting updates to the vehicle (map or otherwise). My hope is that Ford is well aware that the world has their eyes on the Lightning (the F150 being historically the number one selling vehicle) and that they'd want to provide the best support/response they can.

But with that said, I'm no dropping north of $100k on a Ford.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Well - this is interesting - I got my invitation to order !


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

GDN said:


> Well - this is interesting - I got my invitation to order !


give us some deets please!


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

GDN said:


> Well - this is interesting - I got my invitation to order !


Congrats, let us know how the process is. Now I'm going to be anxiously refreshing my email. I'm still torn on what/if I want to order one. Everything looks worthwhile for the Lightning, but I'm still intimated by a new model vehicle.

The Silverado EV looks pretty sharp as well, but seeing that it won't be out for at least another 2 years don't think that's an option.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

FRC said:


> give us some deets please!


Well - Ford has opened the order banks to start building. I haven't followed closely enough so these numbers may be off some, but they shut reservations down when they reached 200,000 or so. They've doubled their want to be production numbers twice, but believe this first year is maybe 20K units. They said most would be directed to states like CA and most other dealers would only receive 3 trucks a piece the first year.

I happen to put my order in at a rural dealer in the middle of OK, so guess I could be the only one - lol or at least not too many for that dealer.

I'm truly trying to figure out how many orders went out today and how unique it might be. Buying and then selling is intriguing, but I don't think it would truly be to replace the 3. $90K for the Platinum plus any dealer markups is more than my blood can handle I think for a vehicle, especially no more than I drive.

A little intriguing tidbit - I've not received 3 emails from Ford. They want me to order now. BTW - creating an order requires a $1000 deposit. Likely non-refundable. So I'd be at the mercy of the dealer.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

GDN said:


> Well - Ford has opened the order banks to start building. I haven't followed closely enough so these numbers may be off some, but they shut reservations down when they reached 200,000 or so. They've doubled their want to be production numbers twice, but believe this first year is maybe 20K units. They said most would be directed to states like CA and most other dealers would only receive 3 trucks a piece the first year.
> 
> I happen to put my order in at a rural dealer in the middle of OK, so guess I could be the only one - lol or at least not too many for that dealer.
> 
> ...


The assumption is that you'd be given the final vehicle price before putting down a non-refundable deposit (ie if the dealer wants to add any markup they'd have to let you know in writing before putting any non-refundable money down).


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

shareef777 said:


> The assumption is that you'd be given the final vehicle price before putting down a non-refundable deposit (ie if the dealer wants to add any markup they'd have to let you know in writing before putting any non-refundable money down).


Yep - truly I need to reach out to them before I would place an order, but I think I'm really just toying with this.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

GDN said:


> Yep - truly I need to reach out to them before I would place an order, but I think I'm really just toying with this.


I put a reservation for the Silverado EV. I'll reach out to the Ford dealer once my number comes up, ask to put in an order for the Platinum and for the price sheet. If it shows any markup I'll calmly ask for it to be adjusted to MSRP. Otherwise I'll let them know I've got a reservation for a CT/Silverado (and Rivian for kicks) ask for a refund of my deposit, as well as the fact that I'll be posting that marked up offer anywhere and everywhere.


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

shareef777 said:


> I put a reservation for the Silverado EV. I'll reach out to the Ford dealer once my number comes up, ask to put in an order for the Platinum and for the price sheet. If it shows any markup I'll calmly ask for it to be adjusted to MSRP. Otherwise I'll let them know I've got a reservation for a CT/Silverado (and Rivian for kicks) ask for a refund of my deposit, as well as the fact that I'll be posting that marked up offer anywhere and everywhere.


The Rivian is the winner, in my opinion.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

iChris93 said:


> The Rivian is the winner, in my opinion.


I was hoping the R1S would be out by now, but the R1T seems too small compared to the competition. And I've already read about console performance issues with lag when going in/out of menus. Also being a completely new manufacturer definitely scares me away a bit. They're built in IL but don't even have a service center in the Chicago area.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

shareef777 said:


> I put a reservation for the Silverado EV. I'll reach out to the Ford dealer once my number comes up, ask to put in an order for the Platinum and for the price sheet. If it shows any markup I'll calmly ask for it to be adjusted to MSRP. Otherwise I'll let them know I've got a reservation for a CT/Silverado (and Rivian for kicks) ask for a refund of my deposit, as well as the fact that I'll be posting that marked up offer anywhere and everywhere.


That is the problem with stealerships - many of them will do markups and they don't care and it won't driver buyers to another dealership necessarily because the other dealerships won't be able to get them.

On the Lightning forum someone posted from their dealer that the dealers claim Ford has made the Invoice price and the MSRP the same price. So they claim that leaves them no profit, which I would never believe. They were immediately $6K and $10K markups. I've got a very close family member that has managed GM and Ford dealerships - love him to death, but still wouldn't trust him or any dealer further than I could throw him in a car deal. We all know the dealerships will have a ton of profit built in and literally have to do nothing. Customers are ordering online, they just collect their huge profits.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

GDN said:


> That is the problem with stealerships - many of them will do markups and they don't care and it won't driver buyers to another dealership necessarily because the other dealerships won't be able to get them.
> 
> On the Lightning forum someone posted from their dealer that the dealers claim Ford has made the Invoice price and the MSRP the same price. So they claim that leaves them no profit, which I would never believe. They were immediately $6K and $10K markups. I've got a very close family member that has managed GM and Ford dealerships - love him to death, but still wouldn't trust him or any dealer further than I could throw him in a car deal. We all know the dealerships will have a ton of profit built in and literally have to do nothing. Customers are ordering online, they just collect their huge profits.


And as mad as I want to be at dealers, it's really the peoples fault for accepting the markups. Patience truly is a virtue. Thank god for Tesla, cause then I can just be patient and wait for the CT.


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

shareef777 said:


> And as mad as I want to be at dealers, it's really the peoples fault for accepting the markups. Patience truly is a virtue. Thank god for Tesla, cause then I can just be patient and wait for the CT.


They're just becoming the scalpers. Why let them have all fun when they can have their own cut?


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

iChris93 said:


> They're just becoming the scalpers. Why let them have all fun when they can have their own cut?


Capitalism101. At least you're being told upfront what it'll cost and what you'll get for that price. *cought*FSD*cough*


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

I likely should have paid a lot more attention to the MachE and that would answer most of the questions about the Lighting, however, researching and watching a few videos this weekend I just learned that the Lightning still has a Start / Stop button. Really? Just what for? This is the kind of stuff that scares the bejebus out of me. These legacy automakers just can't get around some things. Save the money, remove the button. You owners are smarter than this and if not will learn. At least I think so. This is what will always set Tesla apart. 

They also still have several levels of fobs, next level adds the keypad to the door, next level up adds the phone as key. The last one is likely the cheapest - it has to be. Sell the fobs as add ons. 

They did get the frunk right however, fully automatic up and down - on all trim levels. Same for the tailgate on the upper levels.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Kyle from OOS got 15 minutes with the Lightning software and controls. Nothing in depth, but many people here like and respect him, he gives Ford some big thumbs up for their job on the SW. I wish they'd drop the shadows and up the colors on many of their screens - just looks very dated, they could do a much better job with the graphics.

There are a few things in here Tesla could borrow.

Anyway - his take on it -


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

I just read back through the first couple of pages of this thread - I'm crazier now than I was then, but my reservation was in early enough back in May that I was actually selected and given an option to buy a Lightning. I placed my order on Jan 10 and I now have a VIN and assigned build week of May 23. I should have it mid to late June. There will still be another Tesla in the garage though.

I'm truly torn, but think if it isn't the right truck for me and if it doesn't give me the same thrill as driving the 3 on a daily basis that I will easily be able to resell and get back in a Tesla. Ford has over 200,000 reservations when they cut them off in December and are only making about 20K this model year. I might make it last until the Cybertruck, but no one knows how long those delays will be or just how expensive the Cybertruck will end up being.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

GDN said:


> I just read back through the first couple of pages of this thread - I'm crazier now than I was then, but my reservation was in early enough back in May that I was actually selected and given an option to buy a Lightning. I placed my order on Jan 10 and I now have a VIN and assigned build week of May 23. I should have it mid to late June. There will still be another Tesla in the garage though.
> 
> I'm truly torn, but think if it isn't the right truck for me and if it doesn't give me the same thrill as driving the 3 on a daily basis that I will easily be able to resell and get back in a Tesla. Ford has over 200,000 reservations when they cut them off in December and are only making about 20K this model year. I might make it last until the Cybertruck, but no one knows how long those delays will be or just how expensive the Cybertruck will end up being.


Nice, I'm jealous. My daughter gets her drivers license in a couple weeks and I plan getting a vehicle by this summer so she'd have something for work. If I don't get called up for the lightning by summer I'll have to forgo another EV and just get her a Honda Civic (or something similar) till the CT is available.


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## Madmolecule (Oct 8, 2018)

GDN said:


> I just read back through the first couple of pages of this thread - I'm crazier now than I was then, but my reservation was in early enough back in May that I was actually selected and given an option to buy a Lightning. I placed my order on Jan 10 and I now have a VIN and assigned build week of May 23. I should have it mid to late June. There will still be another Tesla in the garage though.
> 
> I'm truly torn, but think if it isn't the right truck for me and if it doesn't give me the same thrill as driving the 3 on a daily basis that I will easily be able to resell and get back in a Tesla. Ford has over 200,000 reservations when they cut them off in December and are only making about 20K this model year. I might make it last until the Cybertruck, but no one knows how long those delays will be or just how expensive the Cybertruck will end up being.


That's very exciting, I believe you will see that acceleration, maintenance, safety and efficiency are just inherent with electric drivetrains. I feel the daily driving excitement will even be more than your original Tesla experience. To drive a big truck without the environmental guilt, shows the best reasons for EVs. At minimum it will be a great investment. they has a little experience in manufacturing trucks and developing electric is easier than diesel. The switch to electric trucks will be faster than farmers using KUBOTA instead of John deer's. Please be aware that the lightning is not suitable for mars, so you will be geofenced to earth


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Small update - Ford notified all reservation holders that have not received an invitation to order, that there will be no more orders for 2022. They will reopen orders to reservation holders later this summer and future orders will be for a 2023 year model. It has left many upset, however there is only so much supply to go with the huge demand. 

Now that Germany and TX are both ready to start making cars within weeks I'm sure all Tesla resources will be focused on the truck.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

GDN said:


> Small update - Ford notified all reservation holders that have not received an invitation to order, that there will be no more orders for 2022. They will reopen orders to reservation holders later this summer and future orders will be for a 2023 year model. It has left many upset, however there is only so much supply to go with the huge demand.
> 
> Now that Germany and TX are both ready to start making cars within weeks I'm sure all Tesla resources will be focused on the truck.


Got the message:

*Here's where we are with F‑150 Lightning orders.*
*SHAREEF, thank you for reserving the F‑150® Lightning™ truck and joining us on this game‑changing journey.

We promised to keep you updated along the way, so we want you to know: all invitations to order a 2022 model year have been sent. We expect invitations to order future model years to begin this summer.

We realize that's a long wait, so when we say, "Thank you for your patience," we mean it. We are working on increasing production and will let you know when the ordering process begins.

Rest assured, your reservation still stands, and you can view the details below. If you decide to cancel your reservation, we understand. But we hope you'll stick with us on this epic ride.*

Don't they sell model year vehicles in the late summer of the previous year? ie, wouldn't the 2023 model year vehicles be released this summer/fall?


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

GDN said:


> Small update - Ford notified all reservation holders that have not received an invitation to order, that there will be no more orders for 2022. They will reopen orders to reservation holders later this summer and future orders will be for a 2023 year model. It has left many upset, however there is only so much supply to go with the huge demand.
> 
> Now that Germany and TX are both ready to start making cars within weeks I'm sure all Tesla resources will be focused on the truck.


With still hundreds of thousands (?) of modelY reservations pending, do we really expect Tesla to shift focus to the CT?


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Yes, I agree with you, I believe they have enough orders for the factory through August/September. I think they'll open orders back up in early July for a 2023 for delivery 8 weeks later. The truck will be what Ford calls Job2 and they will tweak anything wrong, but otherwise the trucks will be just like the 2022. 

Ford will not modify anything on this truck, design wise, until they open their new factory in 2 to 3 years. The bodies for the Lightning are made on the very same line that the ICE versions are. They just tweaked the design last year - so there will be no plans to alter the body in any way for another 2-3 years, about the time their completely redesigned truck comes out of the new factory.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

FRC said:


> With still hundreds of thousands (?) of modelY reservations pending, do we really expect Tesla to shift focus to the CT?


Yes, but I'm speaking from an engineering perspective. Now that the Y lines in Germany and TX are done and building cars, those should run for the most part on their own with supply chain managers, but the engineers that help design the robots and assembly lines, etc - those are who I think will be laser focused on the truck now.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Let me just say those Ford - MachE/Lightning fanboys do not like being needled about things they think are so innovative when you point out that Tesla already does it.


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

GDN said:


> Let me just say those Ford - MachE/Lightning fanboys do not like being needled about things they think are so innovative when you point out that Tesla already does it.


I can't fault Ford for making its best attempt - they actually built a Tesla-like EV with a frunk and a big display instead of adapting an existing ICE platform into front-wheel-drive EV by simply swapping the engine and transmission out.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Recently started looking at the BMW i4. I’ll need a vehicle in the next year or so and the 3/Y are pricing themselves out of reach (considering the $7500 credit is gone).


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

GDN said:


> Let me just say those Ford - MachE/Lightning fanboys do not like being needled about things they think are so innovative when you point out that Tesla already does it.


Troublemaker


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

I came to note the Lightning will be the pace car truck tonight at the Nascar race and see this article - if you haven't seen it https://teslaownersonline.com/threa...t-electric-truck-to-pace-a-nascar-race.21543/


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

A lot of new videos from Detroit today as Ford has a big "unveiling" tomorrow mid day for the Lightning. They invited several "soon to be owners" to be onsite. I actually had an inquiry last week if I was available, but they never got back to me. Work likely would have prevented it anyway.

To say the least, one report from a soon to be owner that took a ride today says he has owned Porches, Corvettes, BMWs and Lotuses. He says the truck handles as well as any of them ever did.

The unveiling is expected to announce "OK to buy" which is what everyone is waiting on. Many trucks have been built, including the first customer orders, but they are all being held until released with the OKTB. If they release them tomorrow I hope the first owners will have their hands on them in just a few days.

Link to info:






12:30 Central. 1:30 Eastern


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## Power Surge (Jan 6, 2022)

GDN said:


> A lot of new videos from Detroit today as Ford has a big "unveiling" tomorrow mid day for the Lightning. They invited several "soon to be owners" to be onsite. I actually had an inquiry last week if I was available, but they never got back to me. Work likely would have prevented it anyway.
> 
> To say the least, one report from a soon to be owner that took a ride today says he has owned Porches, Corvettes, BMWs and Lotuses. He says the truck handles as well as any of them ever did.
> 
> ...


One of the members on our Lightning FB page (Gen1 and Gen2 Lightnings, not the new one), drove it today and said the same things. Handled like a sports car, and it was raining at one point and the truck never got out of control. He was pretty impressed.


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## Nom (Oct 30, 2018)

Enough with all these comments on handling and performance. We all know what really matters from this forum is the placement of a button or icon on the UI. The passions it creates! LOL

Very much hoping the Lightning is great. It will accelerate the industry’s shift to electric if so due to more mindset shifts amongst the population.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Nom said:


> Enough with all these comments on handling and performance. We all know what really matters from this forum is the placement of a button or icon on the UI.


BUTTONS!

If it wasn't for the supercharger network, I would replace my Tesla with a vehicle containing KNOBS and ACTUAL PHYSICAL BUTTONS in a heartbeat!



garsh said:


> NEVER FORGET....


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

garsh said:


> BUTTONS!
> 
> If it wasn't for the supercharger network, I would replace my Tesla with a vehicle containing KNOBS and ACTUAL PHYSICAL BUTTONS in a heartbeat!


The knob isn't real!


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

iChris93 said:


> The knob isn't real!


Just glued on !!

I do wish for something in between. I love the simplicity of the Tesla interface, but it isn't always intuitive when they move controls around. However, it is just as confusing to find the right button of 2000 on some other brands. There has to be a happy medium.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

At first glance this seems a bit crazy and overkill, however I think I've recalled more than enough stories from this forum alone that Tesla could likely benefit greatly if they would just team up with the major aftermarket glass replacers and do the same thing. https://media.ford.com/content/ford...unches-new-ford-certified-glass-network.html#


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Ford officially gave the "OK To Buy" for the Lightning today. This gives the ok to ship them to dealers. There are a few thousand built and sitting in Detroit ready to go. They should dealership lots in a few days/weeks. There is also a big event in San Antonio starting today. Media is allowed to drive and get hands on with the trucks. An "embargo" was issued to them however they aren't to release stories until May 10. I figure that is about the time they expect the first trucks to start deliveries to customers.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

GDN said:


> At first glance this seems a bit crazy and overkill, however I think I've recalled more than enough stories from this forum alone that Tesla could likely benefit greatly if they would just team up with the major aftermarket glass replacers and do the same thing. https://media.ford.com/content/ford...unches-new-ford-certified-glass-network.html#


Meh, a salt truck chipped my 3 windshield this past winter. Took it to Safelite and they wanted almost ~$1700 to replace the windshield. Tesla quote was for ~$1400. Wound up going with the repair (~$130) and its been good so far.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

The owners manual for the Lightning finally dropped this week. Just a few things looking through it are kind of surprising, but truly not surprising at the same time. This is a legacy auto maker, that is not reinventing anything.

The truck has 8 different fuse types in it. 8! I know that most will never need to be touched, but still there are at least two fuse boxes with the smaller standard type we've known for years. Simply amazing to see how Tesla has handled and solved that. There are some drawbacks to no fuse box like in the Tesla. Tesla you have to wait for the mosfet to reset if needed. Ford you replace the fuse. Ford also lists some empty or usable slots - you can easily add your own accessories to the fuse box.

The other so far is the coolant system. I've read through it a time or two and it never says "battery" coolant, but it does note that if it gets low it can result in overheating in the electric motor. I believe it takes care of the battery and motor. Sandy Monroe will tell us soon enough. The bigger thing that kind of surprises me - It is an open system. It has a reservoir and you check it under the hood (hidden under the "beauty" panel in the frunk.) It uses Motorcraft Yellow Prediluted Antifreeze.


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

GDN said:


> Sandy Monroe will tell us soon enough.


Are they getting one to tear down?


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

iChris93 said:


> Are they getting one to tear down?


It is my understanding he is definitely getting one and I would hope it is to tear down. It may simply make me regret this purchase even more because I already know enough about Ford's technology to know it is at best dragging ass.


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

GDN said:


> It may simply make me regret this purchase even more


If you do, you can always turn around and resell it.


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## SalisburySam (Jun 6, 2018)

garsh said:


> BUTTONS!
> 
> If it wasn't for the supercharger network, I would replace my Tesla with a vehicle containing KNOBS and ACTUAL PHYSICAL BUTTONS in a heartbeat!


^^^This. And if I can ever actually get one, my LEAF is to be replaced with either an Ioniq5 or GV60 both of which have…wait for it…Buttons and Knobs and Stalks, oh my!


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Deliveries of the Lightning started this week. The first guy has had tons of press reach out, others are now being documented.

Two very interesting key items:

First and I don't believe a single person on this forum wouldn't predict it - the charging network sucks. The first guy had a trip planned the next day so he took the truck and yep, ran into charging problems - https://www.f150lightningforum.com/...ing-networks-and-trip-stats.10506/post-212270

The second item, both of the first two deliveries went to guys that also already had Model 3's. It wasn't specifically noted whether or not the 3's were being replaced or kept.

A very very large number of people waiting for the Lightning are current Tesla owners.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

GDN said:


> Deliveries of the Lightning started this week. The first guy has had tons of press reach out, others are now being documented.
> 
> Two very interesting key items:
> 
> ...


Co-worker was asking me about road trips in our EVs and I couldn't stop talking about how great, convenient, and fun it is. He was so concerned about road trips, I had to spend a solid hour talking about the benefits of EVs and how he'd have no regrets. Then he mentioned he was looking at the Mach-E and I just sent him the article you posted 🤣


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

shareef777 said:


> Co-worker was asking me about road trips in our EVs and I couldn't stop talking about how great, convenient, and fun it is. He was so concerned about road trips, I had to spend a solid hour talking about the benefits of EVs and how he'd have no regrets. Then he mentioned he was looking at the Mach-E and I just sent him the article you posted 🤣


When it comes to EV and road tripping there are TWO stories. There is the Tesla story which in most cases in the US are 99% worry free. Get in and drive, follow NAV.

When it comes to everyone else - Ford definitely included, it is use 3 tools to plot 3 routes and have backups to your backups. Then hope like hell nothing goes wrong.

If I was a big traveler I couldn't go this route with the Lightning. I've noted before however our cars have never been more than a couple of hundred miles from the house.

I've made the suggestion that Farley/Ford needs to start paying Tesla a couple hundred per car Ford sells to get the Supercharger network opened up. Tesla would love that income and Ford owners would love a worry free travel experience, which they do not have today.


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## lance.bailey (Apr 1, 2019)

I took a small work road trip yesterday. about 269km. over to Vancouver Island, couple of spots in Victoria and then over the Malahat to Nanaimo and then back home.

Charged up to 100% (368km est) before the trip and then just drove. could have supercharged in Lantzville north of Nanaimo, but didn't bother. tucked in home with about 27% or so remaining.

best thing? the recharge overnight meant the trip cosst me a total of $4.14 - if I were to claim mileage I would be making a profit.


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

lance.bailey said:


> I took a small work road trip yesterday. about 269km. over to Vancouver Island, couple of spots in Victoria and then over the Malahat to Nanaimo and then back home.
> 
> Charged up to 100% (368km est) before the trip and then just drove. could have supercharged in Lantzville north of Nanaimo, but didn't bother. tucked in home with about 27% or so remaining.
> 
> best thing? the recharge overnight meant the trip cosst me a total of $4.14 - if I were to claim mileage I would be making a profit.


Um, did you mean to post this in this thread?


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## lance.bailey (Apr 1, 2019)

iChris93 said:


> Um, did you mean to post this in this thread?


yeah, it was in response to GDN's thoughts about how taking a road trip in a Ford is an exercise in planning with 3 tools while in a Tesla you just take the road trip. Coincidentally I did exactly that just yesterday. A 269km road trip with nary a thought about charging although I did have a Supercharger in close reach. Easy and mindless and only cost me $4.14


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

lance.bailey said:


> yeah, it was in response to GDN's thoughts about how taking a road trip in a Ford is an exercise in planning with 3 tools while in a Tesla you just take the road trip. Coincidentally I did exactly that just yesterday. A 269km road trip with nary a thought about charging although I did have a Supercharger in close reach. Easy and mindless and only cost me $4.14


Ah, thanks! Makes sense now.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

I guess the Lightning is doomed. Looks like they must have had Tesla assemble it. Or perhaps Tesla isn't the only one that has small issues at times.


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

GDN said:


> I guess the Lightning is doomed. Looks like they must have had Tesla assemble it. Or perhaps Tesla isn't the only one that has small issues at times.
> View attachment 43994


Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

I never even THOUGHT of looking at panel gaps in my new cars before I joined a Tesla forum.


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## JMart (Sep 12, 2017)

GDN said:


> I guess the Lightning is doomed. Looks like they must have had Tesla assemble it. Or perhaps Tesla isn't the only one that has small issues at times.
> View attachment 43994


The one at the dealership near me looked just like this only the other side of the frunk


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Just put in the cancellation for both the Lighting and Silverado EV. Going to see what the market looks like by the time all these vehicles come out.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

shareef777 said:


> Just put in the cancellation for both the Lighting and Silverado EV. Going to see what the market looks like by the time all these vehicles come out.


How far down the list were you for a Lightning? There is a BIG demand and prices are going above MSRP. That would have been a good buy to flip.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

GDN said:


> How far down the list were you for a Lightning? There is a BIG demand and prices are going above MSRP. That would have been a good buy to flip.


One dealer I reached out to that I’d originally reserved with already said there would be a dealer added markup. Switched dealers on them (suppose they didn’t know that was an option early on) and the new one says they won’t add any markup, but I’ve read far too many posts about dealers adding markups when reservations are up for order.

At this point the EV market is looking really good. Lots of options and I’m not stuck on any particular brand or style. My daughter will likely take my 3 when she’s off to college in a couple years and I can grab anything for myself. Could go with another 3 (if prices come back down to earth), the CT if it’s out by then and I get the reservation price, or any number of other EVs out there.


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