# My first autopilot road rage...



## Frully

Greetings friendly friends.

Just thought I'd share a first surprise I've had with autopilot. Not getting rage while driving, but by getting raged at.

A little background: We were in 'status red' stop and go traffic on a jammed 6 lane zipper merge averaging about 0-20km/hr. Autopilot is *still* magic in my mind. I had follow distance set to 4, so about 1 car could comfortably merge in front of me at any time...and they frequently do. At this particular moment there was a brief jog forward so there became a gap both in front of, and behind me. Some vehicles merged into both spots at the same time. The one in front caused the car to panic a tad and regen-only moderate brake to maintain the gap...not sure if brake lights turned on since it was relatively calm slow down. The guy merging behind me was hard into his mirrors making sure he could sneak into the room behind me...but that room was quickly shrinking because of the brake maneuver. To him I'm sure it looked like I brake checked him for following too closely. He zippered past my lane, then pulled up and had some yelling and obscene gestures to share. I wasn't sure how to take it...he was literally having...rage against the machine. I did a 2-handed wave and point at the steering wheel to indicate I wasn't in charge... Even if I had been driving I would have braked the same to let the guy ahead of me in, but in this case it was funny seeing someone yell at a frackin' toaster.

It was unique because it was the first disconnect I've had from traffic and rage. I now want a sign on the car warning people that it acts suddenly (if it weren't gaudy). Anyone else have similar experience?


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## kort677

using the 4 setting leaves way too much distance, I usually use 1 or 2 in slow bumper to bumper big city traffic that works well for me.


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## Frully

kort677 said:


> using the 4 setting leaves way too much distance, I usually use 1 or 2 ...


Interesting to note. I like to leave a gap big enough if someone ever needs to make an emergency maneuver but I suppose closing it down to be less tempting a target would prevent the frequency of the cut-ins.


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## iChris93

If only the machine was driving their car and then there wouldn’t be this problem.


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## Firewired

I have owned AP 1, then AP 2.0 and now 2.5. I do a lot of bumper to bumper traffic most days. Maximum I set it at is 3 just for that reason. If someone is tailgating me too closely I turn AP off as I know the care likely can brake faster than they can react, and I don't want it to contribute to being rearended.


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## Gavyne

lol nice, rage against the machine. You need a sign that says "talk to the car".


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## Ed Woodrick

In stop and go heavy traffic, indeed 4 is a lot too long. Or maybe put another way, it tends to be the distance that everyone uses to pull in front of you and/or yell at you for leaving too big of a gap.

Since the guy had no idea that the car was driving, your gestures were probably seen as pointing to something else. 

But most importantly, at this point in time. The car is not self-driving. Anything that happens is completely your fault. In this case, without the real intelligence of self-driving and the understanding that in this situation, maintaining the same gap could have cause an incident, it may have been the time to disable all of the automation.


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## Joaquin

Yep, we need a "AI driver" sticker


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## babula

IMO in traffic its safer to keep it at 1-2 car lengths max, otherwise you'll have people trying to squeeze in front of you constantly.

One thing I don't like about AP in traffic is that it stops much harder than I would. I like to drive and break smoothly, especially in traffic.


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## jsmay311

If you're expecting vehicles to be merging into your lane while in tight traffic, I don't think that's an appropriate time to be using Autopilot for exactly the reason the OP describes.

Autopilot/TACC operates on rules that pretty much ignore every other vehicle on the road except for the one directly ahead of you. 
In situations where cars in adjacent lanes may need/want to change into your lane (like the one described by the OP), AP/TACC drives like a dumb/inconsiderate/oblivious driver who’s wearing blinders. 
And when a vehicle enters or leaves your lane in front of you, AP/TACC often reacts late, abruptly, and "unnaturally" compared to how a human driver would react.

So I’m not unsympathetic to the “rager“ in this case.


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## GDN

babula said:


> IMO in traffic its safer to keep it at 1-2 car lengths max, otherwise you'll have people trying to squeeze in front of you constantly.
> 
> One thing I don't like about AP in traffic is that it stops much harder than I would. I like to drive and break smoothly, especially in traffic.


One thing I've done that has helped is to use chill mode while in stop and go traffic. I don't all the time, but it can be a bit easier on the start and stop. To make it easy to choose you can duplicate your driving profile and turn chill mode on in that new profile - update the name to indicate. Much easier to turn on and off.

It's also been discussed in other threads but I think the car should use the brake lights more when in regen and stopping. As much as I like EAP and especially in stop and go traffic, I'm truly afraid of getting rear ended


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## PNWmisty

jsmay311 said:


> If you're expecting vehicles to be merging into your lane while in tight traffic, I don't think that's an appropriate time to be using Autopilot for exactly the reason the OP describes.
> 
> Autopilot/TACC operates on rules that pretty much ignore every other vehicle on the road except for the one directly ahead of you.
> In situations where cars in adjacent lanes may need/want to change into your lane (like the one described by the OP), AP/TACC drives like a dumb/inconsiderate/oblivious driver who's wearing blinders.
> And when a vehicle enters or leaves your lane in front of you, AP/TACC often reacts late, abruptly, and "unnaturally" compared to how a human driver would react.
> 
> So I'm not unsympathetic to the "rager" in this case.


True, AP/TACC still needs human management. I suspect a well-timed push on the accelerator might have prevented the rage. This will over-ride the EAP's tendency to stay further back than necessary. And the distance setting of "4" probably compounded the situation. You can't use the EAP to absolve yourself because, even with EAP, it is still you who is "driving". If there is an accident, it will do you no favors to try to blame it on the EAP.


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## kort677

babula said:


> IMO in traffic its safer to keep it at 1-2 car lengths max, otherwise you'll have people trying to squeeze in front of you constantly.
> 
> One thing I don't like about AP in traffic is that it stops much harder than I would. I like to drive and break smoothly, especially in traffic.


if the traffic is moving at speed I agree it stops more harshly than I would but in -10MPH bumper to bumper traffic the car is great while on AP


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## kort677

GDN said:


> One thing I've done that has helped is to use chill mode while in stop and go traffic. I don't all the time, but it can be a bit easier on the start and stop. To make it easy to choose you an just duplicate your driving profile and turn chill mode on in that new profile - update the name to indicate. Much easier to turn on and off.
> 
> It's also been discussed in other threads but I think the car should use the brake lights more when in regen and stopping. As much as I like EAP and especially in stop and go traffic, I'm truly afraid of getting rear ended


what makes you believe that the car doesn't use it's brake lights when in regen? in my experience when the car uses regen the brake lights come on


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## garsh

kort677 said:


> what makes you believe that the car doesn't use it's brake lights when in regen? in my experience when the car uses regen the brake lights come on


It puts on the brake lights only when deceleration exceeds some threshold. Light regen will not turn on the brake lights.

I think it's fine.


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## GDN

kort677 said:


> what makes you believe that the car doesn't use it's brake lights when in regen? in my experience when the car uses regen the brake lights come on


I believe it does and as @garsh notes many are OK with when and how they come on, but it is a threshold. If you are feathering off of the pedal and slowing, you may never get brake lights. If you let off and get good regen, you'll get brake lights, but if you watch there is a point they also go back off once you slow to a certain point. In stop and go traffic it all depends on your speed and how quickly you stop/let off the pedal. I do know that regen will kick on the brake lights, but not in all situations, it depends on speed and amount of regen. YMMV.


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## MelindaV

Frully said:


> did a 2-handed wave and point at the steering wheel to indicate I wasn't in charge... Even if I had been driving I would have braked the same to let the guy ahead of me in, but in this case it was funny seeing someone yell at a frackin' toaster.


You as the driver ARE ALWAYS IN CHARGE. 
The guy getting upset because you slowed down is his issue, you as a driver though, should not be differing 'blame' to the car you are responsible for though no matter.


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## Frully

Absolutely agree always in charge and to blame for any faults -- keeping in mind a rear end accident is 99% always the fault of the person in the rear. I was just remarking that it was funny that a person was mad at a machine and the strange feeling of having the anger directed at me. It's not deferring blame, just that it's...different.

To clarify the original story, if I had to guess, both the spots in front of and behind me were both "barely comfortable sized to parallel park in" despite the '4' setting. It was during an initial start from a standstill where the person ahead went, the person behind didn't go leaving a gap.

If I had been in direct control I would have done exactly what AP did to slow moderately to let the guy in...it just coincided with someone pushing the back gap at the same time. I have a strong hunch it was that regen didn't show brake lights because the slowing was so low-moderate.


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## MelindaV

I would also not assume anyone driving nearby would have the slightest idea about AP nor that the car is automatically doing anything.


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## GDN

Frully said:


> If I had been in direct control I would have done exactly what AP did to slow moderately to let the guy in...it just coincided with someone pushing the back gap at the same time. I have a strong hunch it was that regen didn't show brake lights because the slowing was so low-moderate.


This isn't directed at anyone, just enforces that if you are slowing down, most would expect the car to have brake lights on.

At slow speeds like this with small gaps and people doing crazy things, if the car is slowing it would be nice if the brake lights were on. I get that it shouldn't be necessary, I get that the gap wasn't probably big enough for someone to fit in, but the fact is a lot of people don't have good depth perception and don't see a car slowing or a gap getting smaller and it would just be nice that the brake lights stayed on once regen kicks in, until I press the accelerator again.


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## MelindaV

GDN said:


> This isn't directed at anyone, just enforces that if you are slowing down, most would expect the car to have brake lights on.


on an automatic car.... manuals you can slow down significantly without braking.


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## GDN

MelindaV said:


> on an automatic car.... manuals you can slow down significantly without braking.


True and I thought of that when I wrote it - however a quick Google says that in 2013 per Edmunds only 3.9% of cars sold that year had a manual transmission and July 11, 2018 from the Chicago Tribune says only 2%. I don't know their accuracy, but the bottom line is that it is a very very small percentage of cars on the road and even way fewer drivers have experience driving one or know how they operate.

In our dream world all of our cars would have radar and lidar and would detect the slow down, but that won't be reality for many years. When I was a kid and for many years I often wondered why we didn't have yellow lights along with the red brake lights. Anytime the vehicle wasn't accelerating or braking then the yellow light would come on to indicate at least slowing down. You know the weird things we think about as kids.

I know driver awareness should really fix all of this, but driver attention and awareness is getting worse every day of our lives, not better. Too many distractions, anything that helps alert the other drivers would be nice.


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## MelindaV

GDN said:


> True and I thought of that when I wrote it - however a quick Google says that in 2013 per Edmunds only 3.9% of cars sold that year had a manual transmission and July 11, 2018 from the Chicago Tribune says only 2%.


I'd say that probably is pretty accurate. One of my coworkers will only drive manual cars, and when she bought her subaru 3 or so years ago she had a really hard time finding cars that were manual and worked for what she wanted. Now there are even fewer choices. and in the near 20 years I had driven manual cars around a hilly city, I had noticed a huge drop in what appeared to be people behind you in traffic that are aware that cars can roll back on a hill vs when I first started driving a manual.


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## PNWmisty

GDN said:


> I get that the gap wasn't probably big enough for someone to fit in, but the fact is a lot of people don't have good depth perception and don't see a car slowing or a gap getting smaller and it would just be nice that the brake lights stayed on once regen kicks in, until I press the accelerator again.


Having consistent brake light behavior is important for overall road safety. Individual manufacturers don't have the authority to make up their own standards (and they shouldn't have that authority). It would be a violation of Federal regs to have the brake lights stay on, once activated, until the accelerator was pushed. Tesla follows the same regs that all car makers follow, specifically that lights are on when deceleration is above a specific threshold range and the lights are off in another specific threshold range.


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## garsh

PNWmisty said:


> Tesla follows the same regs that all car makers follow, specifically that lights are on when deceleration is above a specific threshold range and the lights are off in another specific threshold range.


There is no such regulation though. Current regulations are vague, so there's a lot of room for interpretation. The regulations only state that the stop lamps must come on when the brake is applied.

For the U.S.: https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2004-title49-vol5/pdf/CFR-2004-title49-vol5-sec571-108.pdf


> S5.5.4 The stop lamps on each vehicle
> shall be activated upon application
> of the service brakes. The high-mounted
> stop lamp on each vehicle shall be
> activated only upon application of the
> service brakes.


Note that there is also no clear definition of what counts as the "service brakes".

I believe European regulations are similarly vague. Lots of detail about acceptable brightness, placement, and illumination angles of the stop lamps. But nothing controlling the exact conditions under which they should illuminate.


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## PNWmisty

garsh said:


> There is no such regulation though. Current regulations are vague, so there's a lot of room for interpretation. The regulations only state that the stop lamps must come on when the brake is applied.
> 
> I believe European regulations are similarly vague. Lots of detail about acceptable brightness, placement, and illumination angles of the stop lamps. But nothing controlling the exact conditions under which they should illuminate.


There are very specific international rules as to when "stop lamps" should be illuminated (or not) to harmonize the stop lamp behavior of vehicles globally. The UNECE Transport Division has been providing secretariat services to the World Forum for Harmonization of Vehicle Regulations (scroll down to 5.2.22.4). The United States is a member and, while these regulations may not be legally binding, in practice, auto manufacturing is a global business and manufacturers who wish to compete globally, follow such directives:



> 5.2.22.4. Electric regenerative braking systems as defined in paragraph 2.17., which produce a retarding force upon release of the accelerator control, shall generate the signal mentioned above according to the following provisions:
> 
> Vehicle decelerations Signal generation
> 
> ≤ 0.7 m/s² The signal shall not be generated
> > 0.7 m/s² and ≤ 1.3 m/s² The signal may be generated
> > 1.3 m/s² The signal shall be generated
> 
> In all cases the signal shall be de-activated at the latest when the deceleration has fallen below 0.7 m/s².


No manufacturer wants to give extra legal ammunition to wrongful death lawsuits by ignoring international guidelines intended to harmonize vehicle standards globally.


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## RedModel3

I haven't experience road rage, in a situation like this, because I don't use AP in heavy traffic like you describe. I don't feel comfortable with how it will respond to the multiple crazy drivers who routinely do stupid stuff on a daily basis. The road rage was totally on the other driver, but at the same time, I like to have control of the brake lights in stop-and-go traffic.

Maybe it's because my car is red, but I _have_ noticed that people treat me like I'm an a-hole driver. I don't block faster drivers in the left lane, I don't cut people off, I drive whatever speed the traffic around me is driving. And people cut me off all the time. I don't get it. My other cars were gray. Maybe I should put a big sign on my car that says "THIS IS NOT A BMW!"


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## kort677

RedModel3 said:


> I haven't experience road rage, in a situation like this, because I don't use AP in heavy traffic like you describe. I don't feel comfortable with how it will respond to the multiple crazy drivers who routinely do stupid stuff on a daily basis. The road rage was totally on the other driver, but at the same time, I like to have control of the brake lights in stop-and-go traffic.
> 
> Maybe it's because my car is red, but I _have_ noticed that people treat me like I'm an a-hole driver. I don't block faster drivers in the left lane, I don't cut people off, I drive whatever speed the traffic around me is driving. And people cut me off all the time. I don't get it. My other cars were gray. Maybe I should put a big sign on my car that says "THIS IS NOT A BMW!"


do yourself a favor and just do your thing without regard to what you think how others are viewing you. I get the ragers who are red light racers, they get impatient because I coast to red lights while some insist on racing to them and slamming their brakes, then I zip by them as the light turns green. the point is you can't allow other people's issues to ruin your day.


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## garsh

PNWmisty said:


> There are very specific international rules as to when "stop lamps" should be illuminated (or not) to harmonize the stop lamp behavior of vehicles globally. The UNECE Transport Division has been providing secretariat services to the World Forum for Harmonization of Vehicle Regulations (scroll down to 5.2.22.4).


Awesome info. Thanks for posting that! I wasn't able to find those regulations after searching myself.

I am now enlightened.


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## Gunn

Has anyone experienced road rage for simply being in a Tesla?

I had 3 occurrences of it last night (driving in LA mind) where 3 separate vehicles (2 diesel trucks and one rather idiotic Silver Jeep Rubicon driver) seemed to take pleasure in cutting me off and harassing just for the fun of it. The Rubicon driver even had his 10 yr old leaning out the window telling me I was number 1 

I used to get frustrated when driving for no other reason than driving a stick shift, angry that I couldn't stay in the same gear and be constantly changing. Since driving my 3 I have mellowed so much I just coast with no real concern but just getting to my destination, I hardly even go in the fast lane and all of these occurrences were when in the slow lane but keeping with traffic.

Maybe it's just LA....


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## Jay79

Gasholes!


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## beastmode13

I experience Road Rage almost everytime I use EAP. The rage is coming from me to the slowness of EAP. LOL Ironically, I believe my road rage will subside when Mad Max mode is released.... at least I hope.


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## kort677

all I can advise is that most of us in a model 3 is driving one of the fastest cars on the road and that allows you to get away from most anyone you don't care to be near. be smart about dealing with some of the less enlightened you may encounter.


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## RonAz

City buses had for awhile a three light system on the rear of the bus. Green meant the bus was under power, amber meant the was was slowing or using retarder to slow, and red meant that the brakes were on. When I test drove the Model 3 I thought that this system might be good for electric vehicles with regen. This would give the driver behind you a warning that you are slowing without brakes. 
Traffic lights already do this: go, warning, stop.


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## MelindaV

RonAz said:


> might be good for electric vehicles with regen. This would give the driver behind you a warning that you are slowing without brakes.


the car engages the brake lights when regen braking, not just when using the friction brakes.


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## FRC

kort677 said:


> all I can advise is that most of us in a model 3 is driving one of the fastest cars on the road and that allows you to get away from most anyone you don't care to be near. be smart about dealing with some of the less enlightened you may encounter.


About the only way I find the sudden acceleration of my P3D to be useful, as opposed to FUN, is when I'm being tailgated. When someone rides me too closely for too long, I'll floor it for a couple of seconds to safely let them know I don't appreciate it. Try it, you'll like it!


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## RolfS

GDN said:


> This isn't directed at anyone, just enforces that if you are slowing down, most would expect the car to have brake lights on.
> 
> At slow speeds like this with small gaps and people doing crazy things, if the car is slowing it would be nice if the brake lights were on. I get that it shouldn't be necessary, I get that the gap wasn't probably big enough for someone to fit in, but the fact is a lot of people don't have good depth perception and don't see a car slowing or a gap getting smaller and it would just be nice that the brake lights stayed on once regen kicks in, until I press the accelerator again.


You can always tell whether the brake lights are on by looking at the brake light animation of your car on the screen. They come on when the car brake lights are on. They could probably make them brighter so its easier to tell, because in my case with a red car the few extra red brake light pixels are hard to spot.


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## GDN

RolfS said:


> You can always tell whether the brake lights are on by looking at the brake light animation of your car on the screen. They come on when the car brake lights are on. They could probably make them brighter so its easier to tell, because in my case with a red car the few extra red brake light pixels are hard to spot.


They do come on and I watch, which is the point, during regen, but after you slow to a point the brake lights go back off while you are still slowly moving. That is where I wish the brake lights remained on. It's just my wish, tired of people being on my bumper. Maybe prevent getting rear ended. Nothing more.


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## PNWmisty

GDN said:


> They do come on and I watch, which is the point, during regen, but after you slow to a point the brake lights go back off while you are still slowly moving. That is where I wish the brake lights remained on. It's just my wish, tired of people being on my bumper. Maybe prevent getting rear ended. Nothing more.


That's the same way my Skyactive Mazda CX-5 works (now for sale). When you apply the brakes the sxi-speed auto transmission shifts into lower gears to add a measure of engine braking. This allows the direct injection fuel injectors to stop injecting (because engine braking is keeping the engine turning). During this time the car is slowing but the brake lights are only on if the friction brakes are applied. I think it makes sense for the brake lights to only illuminate when the braking is greater than a certain threshold (or in this case, when the friction brakes are being applied). Because if I have to suddenly get back on the friction brakes the driver behind me will be alerted. If the brake lights remained on during gentle engine braking, there would be no warning if I needed to step on the friction brakes suddenly. The Model 3 brake lights behave similarly in that if the regen decreases, so it is below the pre-determined threshold, the brake lights will turn off, thus being ready to warn the following driver should stronger regen be applied suddenly.

This is also what I'm accustomed to when following a manual shifting vehicle. The brake lights do not illuminate on downshifts unless the friction brakes are also being applied. Because the Model 3 is capable of regen braking stronger than typical with a downshift (auto or manual) it's good that the brake lights illuminate from regen alone (assuming the deceleration is above the threshold). Consistency is important so following drivers know approximately what to expect.


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## FRC

I agree with PWMinistry's threshold concept. I believe that Tesla has purposely set up brakes lights to mimic the corresponding behavior in an ICE vehicle. During regen braking, the brake lights remain on down to a certain threshold, at which point the lights go out to indicate coasting towards a stop.


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## Richt

Wow great points. I use chill when on autopilot anyway. Slows things down and improves efficiency. Great hint about reducing gap in bumper to bumper. Thanks!


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## MelindaV

Richt said:


> Wow great points. I use chill when on autopilot anyway. Slows things down and improves efficiency. Great hint about reducing gap in bumper to bumper. Thanks!


a fair amount of my commute is bumper to bumper (sub 15 mph if moving at all), and have found all settings 1-7 end up with a similar follow distance at those speeds. The spacing variable really only comes into effect at faster speeds.


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## shelby

Questions for experienced AP users: I used AP for the first time yesterday on a major highway, despite having the car a few months. I have to say, I found it a little unnerving with the car speeding up and slowing down, and especially when it was next to large trucks, it was too close for my comfort. I winded up taking over several times due to my not quite trusting in it. For those using it alot, are you just confident the car will respond correctly and how do you feel about distance from a large truck in an adjacent lane? I am hoping to feel more confident using AP over time. Also, when the steering wheel icon is gray on a route and disappears and reappears, does AP still work (this is on a main road, not highway)? Appreciate your insights.


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## JWardell

GDN said:


> They do come on and I watch, which is the point, during regen, but after you slow to a point the brake lights go back off while you are still slowly moving. That is where I wish the brake lights remained on. It's just my wish, tired of people being on my bumper. Maybe prevent getting rear ended. Nothing more.


I find people will keep _more_ distance from your bumper if they are behind a car that slows without brake lights. This is from decades of driving manual transmissions. It's all too common for folks to drive dangerously close behind others here, and way too many years driving in traffic I found if I just slowed a bit without brakes, those folks' tiny brains would immediately melt and they would back way off. 
I'm pretty happy with the deceleration level Tesla has selected to activate the brake lights on regen. I can feather to pedal and stay just below it if I feel like slowing down gradually without activating the lights if I want.


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## Bokonon

shelby said:


> Also, when the steering wheel icon is gray on a route and disappears and reappears, does AP still work (this is on a main road, not highway)?


The gray steering wheel icon indicates that Autosteer is currently available but not engaged. You'll see it when the car can confidently sense where the lane lines are. Whenever the car cannot reliably detect the lane lines, the Autosteer icon will disappear, and you won't be able to engage it.

As a general rule, if you notice the Autosteer icon constantly disappearing and re-appearing on a given road, it's probably a sign that you shouldn't try to engage it there.


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## MelindaV

shelby said:


> Questions for experienced AP users: I used AP for the first time yesterday on a major highway, despite having the car a few months. I have to say, I found it a little unnerving with the car speeding up and slowing down, and especially when it was next to large trucks, it was too close for my comfort. I winded up taking over several times due to my not quite trusting in it. For those using it alot, are you just confident the car will respond correctly and how do you feel about distance from a large truck in an adjacent lane? I am hoping to feel more confident using AP over time. Also, when the steering wheel icon is gray on a route and disappears and reappears, does AP still work (this is on a main road, not highway)? Appreciate your insights.


for my commute, there are places I use TACC, EAP or neither. When TACC or EAP is on, I am adjusting the follow distance pretty regularly to compensate for various things.... like if I see a car is trying to change lanes I increase the follow distance. if someone has just pulled in front of me, I may decrease the follow distance to keep EAP from braking, etc.
Here's my typical morning commute:
(manual - 2 miles) leave neighborhood and drive a couple miles down a main street (2 lanes each way with 4 or so intersections)
(TACC or EAP with intervention - 3 miles) enter 1st freeway. This freeway normally is just under the speed limit, 2 lanes wide, with the two lanes, and wide shoulders, this freeway is pretty comfortable for lane centering and both TACC and EAP do fine.
(manual interchange to 2nd freeway) - requires moving two lanes to the left (preferably 3 lanes), in stopped traffic, so no matter the follow distance, or the car's ability to change lanes, this needs to be done manually.
(TACC or EAP - 9 miles) 2nd freeway - once in the thru lanes of the freeway, I use EAP for the first mile or two, then switch to TACC when crossing a bridge with narrower lanes, then back to EAP after the bridge. A good stretch of the remaining time on this freeway is in stop and go traffic, without going above 15 MPH - so EAP is pretty under control . I have found though, in stopped traffic, when it begins to move again, sometimes EAP seems to lose sight of the lanes and wants to correct to the right or left. I end up having it disengage pretty often because I think the lane is going straight ahead, and lightly holding the wheel steady, and EAP thinks the lane is a foot or two off center. (moral is to keep your hands on the wheel, and it will not do anything crazy). ¾ down this freeway, the right lane becomes an exit only for another freeway, and that lane often is stopped or slightly slower than the main lanes - so people often wait until the last moment to merge over to that lane, or people in that lane realize at the last moment they need to merge left - so in this area, if either in TACC or EAP, I have my foot over the brake ready for someone to either pull in front of me, or block both lanes in an attempt to merge. Or if someone you are following is trying to merge right and ends up with a significant gap forward of them, when they do merge over, I normally will disengage TACC/EAP and manually speed back up to fill the gap instead of letting the car race full speed forward just to come to a stop behind the forward traffic.
(manual - 1 mile) sweeping freeway offramp/overpass and a couple blocks to my office - the exit I take ends up merging with another freeway's exit (my lane on the right, theirs to my left) that I then need to merge to the left, that lane becomes a single lane flyover that then merges with 4 lanes of surface street. So - while TACC/EAP likely could manage with a lane change or two, I disengage it when I get to the exit (not to mention, the crash bumper has been busted with an orange cone in front of it at that exit since the Model X crash/fire). Then my office is 2 blocks away.

so if you are still reading this, over a 14 or 15 mile drive, mostly on freeway, I constantly am switching between EAP, TAC and manual. Over the 4 weeks I've been doing this, I've become pretty comfortable with TACC and it's reactions to other traffic slowing down, speeding up or cutting you off. v9.0 I feel it improved quite a bit in how it deals with cars cutting in front of you. just this morning, while in the middle lane, I had a car from the left lane pull into my lane then over to the right lane. There was enough room for them, but the nice thing was TACC/EAP did not brake followed by speed up when that happened. It acted more like I would and just rolled with it. (IIRC, the follow distance was around 4 here)





The thing I think it doesn't react well at is when a car you are following changes lanes, it waits longer to speed up than I naturally would if they are too close to the lane line. But better for it to be extra cautions for sure, and you can press the accelerator at times like this easy enough.


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## RedModel3

shelby said:


> how do you feel about distance from a large truck in an adjacent lane? .


Don't rely on EAP for that. Just speed up and get out of the way. As a former biker, I NEVER hang out by semi's, and I don't understand people who do.


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## MelindaV

RedModel3 said:


> Don't rely on EAP for that. Just speed up and get out of the way. As a former biker, I NEVER hang out by semi's, and I don't understand people who do.


Because if you want to get anywhere, sometimes that is the only option. Maybe it is not the same where you are, but my commute has as many semi trucks as cars adjacent to me, and traffic does not allow you to simply speed up to get past them (besides that there will be others next to you then). This view from yesterday is the norm here


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## FRC

I personally would never use EAP in this situation. Staying in your lane manually makes necessary rapid adjustments easier. Lane keep doesn't make sense in many situations.


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## MelindaV

FRC said:


> I personally would never use EAP in this situation. Staying in your lane manually makes necessary rapid adjustments easier. Lane keep doesn't make sense in many situations.


You did see the mph, right?


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## RolfS

RedModel3 said:


> Don't rely on EAP for that. Just speed up and get out of the way. As a former biker, I NEVER hang out by semi's, and I don't understand people who do.


As a person who pulls a 25 foot travel trailer (using another car for that purpose not the Model 3), I have no fear of big semi truck drivers. They are professionals. They are curteous and let you in their lane in difficult situations, and I help them get in to a lane that they need to be in. I can end up driving right next to them in heavy traffic for miles with no worry that they do something stupid. It's the regular car drivers that I have to worry about. They squeeze in right in font of you to get to the exit lane at the last second making it difficult for you to even slow down. They pull in front of you and slam on their brakes making it difficult for you to slow down. Why do you think truck drivers leave large gaps in front of them, it's because of the idiot car drivers that pull right in front of them thinking ohh a nice gap I can get into ahead, not realizing that the truck driver needs the space in front of them for safety. I don't worry about truck drivers it's the car driver crazies that I worry about when pulling a trailer.

I have not run into the situation using EAP, but I would not worry about a semi truck driver being next to me. My car is still too new and I have very little driving in it yet. Need to go on a trip soon and I will find out how EAP works, but not worried about a semi next to me.


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## RedModel3

RolfS said:


> As a person who pulls a 25 foot travel trailer (using another car for that purpose not the Model 3), I have no fear of big semi truck drivers. They are professionals. They are curteous and let you in their lane in difficult situations, and I help them get in to a lane that they need to be in. I can end up driving right next to them in heavy traffic for miles with no worry that they do something stupid. It's the regular car drivers that I have to worry about. They squeeze in right in font of you to get to the exit lane at the last second making it difficult for you to even slow down. They pull in front of you and slam on their brakes making it difficult for you to slow down. Why do you think truck drivers leave large gaps in front of them, it's because of the idiot car drivers that pull right in front of them thinking ohh a nice gap I can get into ahead, not realizing that the truck driver needs the space in front of them for safety. I don't worry about truck drivers it's the car driver crazies that I worry about when pulling a trailer.
> 
> I have not run into the situation using EAP, but I would not worry about a semi truck driver being next to me. My car is still too new and I have very little driving in it yet. Need to go on a trip soon and I will find out how EAP works, but not worried about a semi next to me.


I totally understand your point, as well as MelindaV's. My concern stems from my biking days where I had to be aware that I couldn't easily be seen, especially in trucks' blind spots. Too many friends of mine had semi drivers start to merge into their lanes. I've had friends in cars who hung out in blind spots, and were almost forced off the road by a merging truck. Scariest of all, I was about a quarter of a mile behind a semi that blew a tire. Not only could I hear it, but I could FEEL it, and if I had been next to it on a bike I can't even begin to think about what might have happened. I understand how difficult semi drivers have it, and I don't do the things you describe.

It's a rare traffic situation where I cannot in some way choose to not be stuck next to a semi for miles at highway speed.


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## RolfS

RedModel3 said:


> I totally understand your point, as well as MelindaV's. My concern stems from my biking days where I had to be aware that I couldn't easily be seen, especially in trucks' blind spots. Too many friends of mine had semi drivers start to merge into their lanes. I've had friends in cars who hung out in blind spots, and were almost forced off the road by a merging truck. Scariest of all, I was about a quarter of a mile behind a semi that blew a tire. Not only could I hear it, but I could FEEL it, and if I had been next to it on a bike I can't even begin to think about what might have happened. I understand how difficult semi drivers have it, and I don't do the things you describe.
> 
> It's a rare traffic situation where I cannot in some way choose to not be stuck next to a semi for miles at highway speed.


I agree, I would get out of the way if I was driving a motor cycle too. They are hard to spot in a car and I have had my own close calls with motor cycles that were in my blind spot. My reference was directed to drivers in cars that are driving next to trucks and are afraid of them for a non rational reason.


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## Frully

re: driving beside tractor trailers, numerous comments.

Regardless of how good all the drivers are, never drive immediately next to another vehicle if you can avoid it - especially large vehicles. Staying beside vehicles removes an escape vector for both drivers in emergency situations. Try to avoid stacking up 2 by 2, even if it means you have to fall back a car length to get a reasonable distance again. Between tire blowouts and sudden lane incursions from debris or animals, I always want a way out and driving parallel to a semi is not a good one. Particularly with semis...a 5 star safety rating means nothing because at speed...you will lose.


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## JP White

Frully said:


> Greetings friendly friends.
> 
> Just thought I'd share a first surprise I've had with autopilot. Not getting rage while driving, but by getting raged at.
> 
> A little background: We were in 'status red' stop and go traffic on a jammed 6 lane zipper merge averaging about 0-20km/hr. Autopilot is *still* magic in my mind. I had follow distance set to 4, so about 1 car could comfortably merge in front of me at any time...and they frequently do. At this particular moment there was a brief jog forward so there became a gap both in front of, and behind me. Some vehicles merged into both spots at the same time. The one in front caused the car to panic a tad and regen-only moderate brake to maintain the gap...not sure if brake lights turned on since it was relatively calm slow down. The guy merging behind me was hard into his mirrors making sure he could sneak into the room behind me...but that room was quickly shrinking because of the brake maneuver. To him I'm sure it looked like I brake checked him for following too closely. He zippered past my lane, then pulled up and had some yelling and obscene gestures to share. I wasn't sure how to take it...he was literally having...rage against the machine. I did a 2-handed wave and point at the steering wheel to indicate I wasn't in charge... Even if I had been driving I would have braked the same to let the guy ahead of me in, but in this case it was funny seeing someone yell at a frackin' toaster.
> 
> It was unique because it was the first disconnect I've had from traffic and rage. I now want a sign on the car warning people that it acts suddenly (if it weren't gaudy). Anyone else have similar experience?


I don't need autopilot to make people get mad like this. I like to leave distance between me and the car in front. For some reason this drives people crazy and they will flash lights, honk horns and of you don't change your behaviour do crazy stuff as you described to get past you and share their wrath. They don't seem to realize that we are all moving at the same speed, they are not being held back at all. For some gaps have to be closed up.


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