# Ham Radio Equipment and the Model 3



## Rich M (Jul 28, 2017)

Any other hams out there thinking of putting a radio or two in the Model 3? At first I thought with the 12v battery being up front, the frunk would be a good place to put the radio bases, then run the radio head wires through the firewall to the ample console space where they can be hidden by the doors if you're getting the premium package. It would also be a short coax run to do a front fender lip mount







(Not my car, just example)
I'm not sure how easy it would be to remove the tub compartment and run cables through the frunk.








Of course the trunk also has a "downstairs"








For me it would come down to the location of the factory GPS, LTE, FM, and control module locations (and keeping my antenna away from them). Hopefully a 50w APRS data packet doesn't make the sensors go cross eyed and do an emergency brake in the middle of the highway.


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## Thomas Mikl (Jun 26, 2017)

OE6TMF here 

I have thought about it, but I rarely operate in the vehicle. I am more like driving with my buttdipole somewhere, setup and then do some range hunting on a nice mountain side.


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

Do you know of any installs in any other Tesla? I'm very curious how much interference the motors and controllers will cause. That's why Tesla doesn't include AM radio.
At minimum, go for the front, away from all the noise.
I have never had an issue finding grommets through to the front firewall in all of my cars. Then again I don't think this car really has a firewall!


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## Rich M (Jul 28, 2017)

Thomas Mikl said:


> OE6TMF here
> 
> I have thought about it, but I rarely operate in the vehicle. I am more like driving with my buttdipole somewhere, setup and then do some range hunting on a nice mountain side.


N3 XKU here. I don't talk much on the radio, but I do use an APRS tracker.



JWardell said:


> Do you know of any installs in any other Tesla? I'm very curious how much interference the motors and controllers will cause. That's why Tesla doesn't include AM radio.
> At minimum, go for the front, away from all the noise.
> I have never had an issue finding grommets through to the front firewall in all of my cars. Then again I don't think this car really has a firewall!


 I'm not aware of any radio installs in a Tesla. (And it's hard to search the internet without coming up with a lot of Tesla coils) I imagine there could be some issues on AM and SSB. But here's the thing - I'd bet the 3 with it's permanent magnet motor may cause less noise than the induction motors in the S/X. Only a guess at this point though.


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## Thomas Mikl (Jun 26, 2017)

I only know one guy with an S, but he only has a 2-Band FM and digital with a roof rack antenna. He says it is fine.
Same with a Taxi company here, they have 4 S and use their Taxi FM with roof rack antennas. 
So my guess would be that bands below 2m are prolly fine, I cannot say for above.


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## Chris Davis (May 3, 2016)

I have been collecting parts to install my Yaesu FT-8800R in my Model 3 as soon as I get it. My plan is to install the transceiver under the back deck in the trunk with a lip mount antenna on the trunk. It looks like the control head and mic will fit in the middle compartment of the center console, which will be convenient and can be hidden when the door is closed. I won't know if this will work until I have my car in my garage, but that's the plan.

KB6CE


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## Rich M (Jul 28, 2017)

Sounds like a good setup. The center console can definitely hold a lot of stuff. I'll likely do the trunk lip mount as well since that's what I already have, but it will need some creative coax routing to deal with the extremely high lid opening without either getting smashed or having two feet of cable swinging around in the trunk when closed.


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## AB3DC (Apr 2, 2016)

I will probably go the lip mount way too and I already have the Diamond K400 mount with me. As Rich points out... routing the coax from the mount might be a problem but will have to see.

There are other threads (On TMC I think) where other owners have posted their installs in S and X and almost everyone ended up using a lip mount.

Also, I plan to use the back deck for a go-kit.

73
AB3DC


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## Lin Holcomb (Apr 8, 2018)

I am looking to install a DMR radio in our 3, yet to be delivered. I will post photos when I get this done. I am looking at a smallish antenna so probably only a 1/4wave on 2m half wave on 440. DMR has such an advantage over FM that a small antenna does not make a big difference. DE N4YCI


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## David Ahrendts (May 23, 2017)

KK6DA-Los Angeles is installing a Yaesu FTM-400XXR UHF/VHF transceiver in my new Model 3 #9999. Need any guidance from anyone on the installation of a device requiring a direct line to the 12V battery and maximum of 12A occasionally (that's 50W emit @ 440MHz). That capacity is probably beyond the cigarette lighter outlet. Has anyone found a path to the battery from the Frunk to the Cabin? Not worried about RF interferance with the electronics, but I am curious if there is 12V battery sensor control that this might upset. Also, how is the 12V battery charged in a Tesla? My experience is with the Prius Plug-In and the answer there was a standard hybrid/gas generator. Is there a small kinetic generator for the 12V, or does it charge via the big battery? Calling al Amateurs here...CQ, CQ, CQ...


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## Rich M (Jul 28, 2017)

There's a DC-DC converter to top up the 12V battery from the traction battery. I do 50W now from the lighter socket in my current/past cars with a TM-V7a. The same socket also runs a TinyTrak, GPS and dash cam with no issues. I'm only doing packet bursts, so if you're long winded on voice, it may be a different story.
If you're going direct to the battery, make sure everything shuts off when you leave the car. The Model 3 only charges the 12v in short bursts when the car is off, and any unexpected draw seems to confuse the system that does this.


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## Gabzqc (Oct 15, 2016)

Pictures of install please


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## Dan Detweiler (Apr 8, 2016)

Please forgive my ignorance, but I didn't even know HAM radio was still a thing. I just had those stereotypical visions of Smokey & The Bandit. "Cabover Pete with a refer on, and Jimmy haulin' hogs"! 

(did I get that right?) LOL!

Dan


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## Rich M (Jul 28, 2017)

Dan Detweiler said:


> Please forgive my ignorance, but I didn't even know HAM radio was still a thing. I just had those stereotypical visions of Smokey & The Bandit. "Cabover Pete with a refer on, and Jimmy haulin' hogs"!
> 
> (did I get that right?) LOL!
> 
> Dan


Nah, you're thinking of CB.
Here's a good start:
http://www.arrl.org/


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## Rich M (Jul 28, 2017)

Gabzqc said:


> Pictures of install please


I will if they ever make my 3. Current install in my Fiesta probably won't help much


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## Dan Detweiler (Apr 8, 2016)

Rich M said:


> Nah, you're thinking of CB.
> Here's a good start:
> http://www.arrl.org/


See...I told you I was totally ignorant! LOL!

Dan


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## David Ahrendts (May 23, 2017)

Rich, thanks. the Yaesu FTM-400 max draw is 12 amps, so the 12V should be just fine. Will advise when the installation is done. 73s.


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## David Ahrendts (May 23, 2017)

Installed the Yaesu FTM-400XD powered from the console cigarette lighter port (only-on when powered up), and it handles 12 Amps at 50 watts like a breeze. BUT, the M3 punished me when I left the Yaesu on and powered down the M3. The next morning, power to the console port has been switched off by the M3. Verrrrry sensitive to any load, even a Yaesu that's off. Remedy: I pulled the plug out of the port for an M3 power-down period, and the port came back alive. Interesting. Slightly inconvenient, but we'll get there. Pixs of the install forthcoming.


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## David Ahrendts (May 23, 2017)

More from KK6DA: so how does the M3 detect a load on the console cigarette lighter power port if the Yaesu FTM-400XD is turned off. Theory: the Yaesu has a small power draw when it is off. So I asked Yaesu if there is any power draw in the radio off state. And YES, there is. A huge, whopping 2mA of power draw in its off state. And that, my friends is enough for the M3s verrrrry sensitive power management system to disable the power port overnight. Not to worry, though -- it comes back on if you remove the load (pull the plug) in your next M3 power off/idle state. I may create a mini-switch or something to power off the plug entirely when resting. Verrrrry sensitive M3 power management.


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## David Ahrendts (May 23, 2017)

Confirming: the M3 power management is so sensitive that it disables the center console power port with a mere 2mA load from the Yaesu FTM-400XDR in it's off mode. HA! Solution: pull the connector from the power port on your next M3 power down and let power management re-enable the power port and plug the Yaesu back in. I will have to develop a mini power cord on-off switch to accommodate this very sensitive power management system.


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## GreggWon (Jul 31, 2018)

Rich M said:


> Sounds like a good setup. The center console can definitely hold a lot of stuff. I'll likely do the trunk lip mount as well since that's what I already have, but it will need some creative coax routing to deal with the extremely high lid opening without either getting smashed or having two feet of cable swinging around in the trunk when closed.
> View attachment 5134


You should be able to run the coax through the wire tube on the right I think. That's what I am investigating on my Model 3


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## GreggWon (Jul 31, 2018)

Lin Holcomb said:


> I am looking to install a DMR radio in our 3, yet to be delivered. I will post photos when I get this done. I am looking at a smallish antenna so probably only a 1/4wave on 2m half wave on 440. DMR has such an advantage over FM that a small antenna does not make a big difference. DE N4YCI


I will be installing a Yaesu FTM-400 in my Model 3. Having to run both the mic cable and head cable through the car is a bit of a hassle though. Will have to see how that goes.


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## AB3DC (Apr 2, 2016)

David Ahrendts said:


> Confirming: the M3 power management is so sensitive that it disables the center console power port with a mere 2mA load from the Yaesu FTM-400XDR in it's off mode. HA! Solution: pull the connector from the power port on your next M3 power down and let power management re-enable the power port and plug the Yaesu back in. I will have to develop a mini power cord on-off switch to accommodate this very sensitive power management system.


Thanks for the update, David. We would love to see some pics of the install.

73
AB3DC


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## GreggWon (Jul 31, 2018)

If you need information on routing cables front to back in the Model 3, check out this dash cam installation video. It is quite revealing about how to get things routed.


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## GreggWon (Jul 31, 2018)

Rich M said:


> Any other hams out there thinking of putting a radio or two in the Model 3? At first I thought with the 12v battery being up front, the frunk would be a good place to put the radio bases, then run the radio head wires through the firewall to the ample console space where they can be hidden by the doors if you're getting the premium package. It would also be a short coax run to do a front fender lip mount
> View attachment 2845
> 
> (Not my car, just example)
> ...


I am planning on using a glass mounted capacitive coupling antenna for my FTM-400 installation into the model 3. I am still deciding on where the radio body will be located. I've been thinking about a flip up head unit mechanism to keep the head under the phone charging panel.


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## lascavarian (Feb 17, 2018)

This is an interesting discussion. I know that some police departments are using Teslas for patrol cars so there can be radio equipment installed and working well. 

2 years ago, I was able to use the traction battery in our plug-in hybrid to support our familiy’s 100 watt field day station at our club’s site. With the model 3 and this new camping mode, use of the DC to DC charger may make some interest things possible.

The model Y may not have a 12 v battery in a similar way.


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## olibear (Mar 13, 2017)

I'm not on the radio much any more so when I took my FT-7800 out of my truck just before getting the TM3, I thought I was going convert it to a home scanner. Just today I was thinking the Comet B-10 would look pretty neat on the trunk dead center by the 3rd brake light and mounting the radio under the rear deck then tossing the display somewhere up front would be my most likely installation. A quick Google search landed here..... If I install, I'll be sure to post pics.

KD6NIW


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## Rich M (Jul 28, 2017)

olibear said:


> I'll be sure to post pics.


Definitely! To date I have been too lazy to move the radio from my other car. I definitely couldn't bring myself to punch a hole in the trunk lid through


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## Ing. Lele (Sep 15, 2018)

Hello all,

I will get my delivery on 9/29 and I would like to check with you if anybody already worked on 12V power supply for internal HAM Radio installation.

I'm part of Redmond CERT ( Community Emergency Response Team ) and in my previous Subaru Hybrid Crosstrek XV I installed an external VHF/UHF antenna and HAM mobile radio.

I was wondering if there is any 12V High Power port that I can use.
Radio can use 10+ A at high power during transmission and I want to make sure I connect them correctly.

Ideally, they should be connected directly to 12V startup battery with dedicated cable and not via lighter port which may not have correct cable (cause of overheating).

I read the manual but I was not able to find if we have 12V battery to start the car or what's the best way to get a 10A line from "somewhere" 

Any suggestions? 

Thanks,
Daniele


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## NR4P (Jul 14, 2018)

There is a 12v typical battery in the frunk. Easy to get to. Under the plastic grille. However do some searching as there are reports of excessive power from that battery may cause other issues.

The real challenge is the antenna I think. That's my holdback . Let me know what your thoughts are for that please .


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## Ed Woodrick (May 26, 2018)

The antenna is probably the easiest part. There are places on the lift gate that a trunk mount can go, you then run the coax up the lift gate and back down.
There is a 12V in the front, but I haven't found a way to get the power inside. There's also a possibility of putting the antenna and the radio in the front, under the cover, but again, you got to find the way through the firewall


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

Ing. Lele said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I will get my delivery on 9/29 and I would like to check with you if anybody already worked on 12V power supply for internal HAM Radio installation.
> 
> ...


for power, there are a couple threads showing where there is 12v lines accessible in the cabin, but to your point, those may not be appropriate for the load the radio draws. Read thru this one, and ask the knowledgable ones there their comfort level using those connections for something like this.
https://teslaownersonline.com/threads/heres-how-to-safely-tap-12v-power-for-add-ons.8011/


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## lascavarian (Feb 17, 2018)

Ing. Lele said:


> I read the manual but I was not able to find if we have 12V battery to start the car or what's the best way to get a 10A line from "somewhere"
> 
> Any suggestions?


Daniele, page 17 +- in owners manual describes the 12V power socket in the console as capable of 12A continuous and 16A peak.

I am not too concerned about the vehicle interference but I am wondering if there might be some RF worm it's way into the camera feeds and cause some artifact in the video stream to the neural net. Don't know of any way to test for that or if it might not even be a thing.

There is so much glass that the thought crosses my mind that even an inside mount (ie small loaded antenna) might be possible on the rear deck just behind the rear seat headrests. It would not move with the seats (when folded down) and it would largely be hidden behind the headrests if it were small enough. Anything mounted outside will likely impact the aerodynamics if that is a concern. There is enough room for an 18"x24" pizza box on that rear deck but who know what a pizza box would be used for<grin>.

Interesting article on mobile Helix antenna that might work well on the rear deck.

http://www.w6nbc.com/articles/2011-06QST2mhelices.pdf


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## David Ahrendts (May 23, 2017)

lascavarian said:


> Daniele, page 17 +- in owners manual describes the 12V power socket in the console as capable of 12A continuous and 16A peak.
> 
> I am not too concerned about the vehicle interference but I am wondering if there might be some RF worm it's way into the camera feeds and cause some artifact in the video stream to the neural net. Don't know of any way to test for that or if it might not even be a thing.
> 
> ...





Ing. Lele said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I will get my delivery on 9/29 and I would like to check with you if anybody already worked on 12V power supply for internal HAM Radio installation.
> 
> ...


Danielle, KK6DA here from Los Angeles, and I took delivery of Tesla VIN 9999 in April this year, and began to ask the same questions about installing a VHF/UHF amateur radio. Here's what I found: 
1) Tesla totally discourages any user tampering of the 12V system for some very good power management reasons. The big traction battery charges the small 12V battery using a hyper-sensitive system that tracks even the tiniest load on the 12V battery. If you hard wire anything directly to the battery which may cause the load sensing system to "over-read," the big battery can continually over-charge thew 12V battery and it's ruined pretty fast. There are threads about that on this board when people tried to hard wire dash cams. So don't go there, and you don't need to.
2) The one cigarette lighter port in the between-the-seats console easily provides 12 amps, and that's what I use to power my Yaesu FTM-400 VHF/UHF radio. Yaesu produces 50 watts with 12 Amps in. So its a perfect setup. But there's a downside.
3) When I say the power management system is hyper-sensitive, here' s the proof. When I first installed the FTM-400, I left the cigarette lighter plugged-in, as if I going to that permanently with the radio off. The next morning I tried to power-on the FTM-400 and it would not light up. Checked the connection and all was good. And I then learned the power port will shut off if it senses any kind of load left on it for battery charging reasons. I asked myself if the Yaesu FT-400 drew any kind of load in its off state? Called Yaesu, and those very nice people went to the bench and guess what!?! -- in its off state, the FTM-400 draw .02 amps because remember, the Yaesu has a processor-based on-off switch. not a physical switch. That .02 amp load caused my lovely Tesla to kick that foreigner off the system and shut down the power port. Soooo, I now pull the plug each night to keep everyone happy. A physical switch might keep it happy and I may go to that trouble. Also, do not try the cigarette lighter plugs with the lighted switch on the back -- it too draws a small load and it doesn't really want to handle 12 amps.

As for the antenna, Diamond makes a lovely mobile antenna mount that fits on the lip of the truck -- although do check the fit before you tighten it down because Tesla takes great care to make those tolerances tight. Happy to send you photos. [email protected]

David A., KK6DA, Los Angeles


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

David Ahrendts said:


> Danielle, KK6DA here from Los Angeles, and I took delivery of Tesla VIN 9999 in April this year, and began to ask the same questions about installing a VHF/UHF amateur radio. Here's what I found:
> 1) Tesla totally discourages any user tampering of the 12V system for some very good power management reasons. The big traction battery charges the small 12V battery using a hyper-sensitive system that tracks even the tiniest load on the 12V battery. If you hard wire anything directly to the battery which may cause the load sensing system to "over-read," the big battery can continually over-charge thew 12V battery and it's ruined pretty fast. There are threads about that on this board when people tried to hard wire dash cams. So don't go there, and you don't need to.
> 2) The one cigarette lighter port in the between-the-seats console easily provides 12 amps, and that's what I use to power my Yaesu FTM-400 VHF/UHF radio. Yaesu produces 50 watts with 12 Amps in. So its a perfect setup. But there's a downside.
> 3) When I say the power management system is hyper-sensitive, here' s the proof. When I first installed the FTM-400, I left the cigarette lighter plugged-in, as if I going to that permanently with the radio off. The next morning I tried to power-on the FTM-400 and it would not light up. Checked the connection and all was good. And I then learned the power port will shut off if it senses any kind of load left on it for battery charging reasons. I asked myself if the Yaesu FT-400 drew any kind of load in its off state? Called Yaesu, and those very nice people went to the bench and guess what!?! -- in its off state, the FTM-400 draw .02 amps because remember, the Yaesu has a processor-based on-off switch. not a physical switch. That .02 amp load caused my lovely Tesla to kick that foreigner off the system and shut down the power port. Soooo, I now pull the plug each night to keep everyone happy. A physical switch might keep it happy and I may go to that trouble. Also, do not try the cigarette lighter plugs with the lighted switch on the back -- it too draws a small load and it doesn't really want to handle 12 amps.
> ...


The 12v lighter circuit is switched, the off-state draw on our radio should not cause any issue if left plugged in, as Tesla will cut all power once the car powers down. It should only have disabled that port if it saw a high spike of power...maybe that happened when powering back up?


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## David Ahrendts (May 23, 2017)

Not my experience. I have genuinely found that .02 amps draw, in the radio power down-state, and the M3 in its power down-state, will cause this port to shut down for a period. It treats it it as a foreign load and cuts off the port. Remember these devices are not truly “off.” They are always “on” to some extent.


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

David Ahrendts said:


> Not my experience. I have genuinely found that .02 amps draw, in the radio power down-state, and the M3 in its power down-state, will cause this port to shut down for a period. It treats it it as a foreign load and cuts off the port. Remember these devices are not truly "off." They are always "on" to some extent.


Along with every other device plugged into that port that everyone has no issue with. It doesn't make sense. If you plug a load into a port and turn off power, that load is still present. The port should only be disabling because of a high current draw, and even then it should be resetting itself.


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## lascavarian (Feb 17, 2018)

JWardell said:


> The port should only be disabling because of a high current draw....


Ok, but I would say that high current draw is more of "fuse" thinking which is fine. But I think the additional issue is power management and monitoring. Any unexpected drain is an undesirable thing and a flag that something needs attention. It could also be that Yaesu is doing something that is involving the ground in some unusual way. Small currents over hours may contribute to advancing corrosion somehow. Interesting to tease this apart a bit and learn something.


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## Ing. Lele (Sep 15, 2018)

Thanks all for your suggestions.

I installed DIAMOND K400CNMO connector with  NR770HNMO as I had them on my previous car: https://inglele.wordpress.com/2016/04/30/ham-setup-car-radio-configurations/

Here is a photo of setup on back right side of trunk:









Now, the hard part is routing of cable to avoid any hanging when trunk is open or inside the car.

Thanks,
Daniele


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## Ing. Lele (Sep 15, 2018)

Ok, I did the routing even if it could be improved, I'm fine with it. All information and photos are here: https://inglele.wordpress.com/2018/11/26/tesla-model-3-ham-radio-antenna/


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