# Cameras and deterring crimes (or not)



## kort677 (Sep 17, 2018)

TrevP said:


> Hopefully it will put a stop to the constant break-ins


exactly how would a camera put a stop to break ins? every bank has cameras, banks still get robbed


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## NR4P (Jul 14, 2018)

Cameras are good, but they sometimes give a false sense of security. For the initial post, if the B pillar camera is used, and the car's license plate is out of view towards the rear and the idiot backs out, it won't help find the idiot. Or is it the side camera behind the front wheel? Same issue.

Cameras on driveways show nice videos of people stealing wheels off cars all the time. Thieves just mask themselves.

Cameras are a step in the right direction for many things, but they won't stop a persistent bad guy. Only those that are less than 100% committed. But at least if there is video, you can watch the crime.

The smartest car on the planet should call me when someone hurts it. Then I can potentially intervene

[mod edit to remove suggestion of committing a crime]


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

NR4P said:


> Cameras are good, but they sometimes give a false sense of security. For the initial post, if the B pillar camera is used, and the car's license plate is out of view towards the rear and the idiot backs out, it won't help find the idiot. Or is it the side camera behind the front wheel? Same issue.
> 
> Cameras on driveways show nice videos of people stealing wheels off cars all the time. Thieves just mask themselves.
> 
> ...


Cameras absolutely stop crime.
First of all, if criminals see a camera on your car or house, there is a better chance they will just move to the next one.
Second, when the cameras do catch a crime, the police can use them to track the person down and arrest them. Thereby preventing any crimes they would be committing in the future.
Finally if it becomes common knowledge that the cars all have video recording and tracking, the entire brand will be more likely to be skipped for something else. Teslas are already an example where all but the most skilled thieves will avoid stealing them.

We had a girl kidnapped last weekend, it made national news. They managed to use cameras throughout the city to retrace their steps and determine a neighborhood. They found the perpetrator yesterday, and thankfully she was still alive in his apartment.

Two weeks ago, my neighbor stabbed a delivery man with a sword, the police know I have cameras everywhere and were quickly knocking on my door so I could hand over footage of the day so we could see who walked and drove by. They guy was found and arrested within a week.
(I wish I was kidding...)

Cameras are so cheap it's not even worth debating or waiting on Tesla. Get some cheap $40 cameras and place them in a few places in your house and car. You'll be amazed what you see. If they help even once they are well worth the tiny cost.


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## NR4P (Jul 14, 2018)

JWardell said:


> Cameras absolutely stop crime.
> First of all, if criminals see a camera on your car or house, there is a better chance they will just move to the next one.
> Second, when the cameras do catch a crime, the police can use them to track the person down and arrest them. Thereby preventing any crimes they would be committing in the future.
> Finally if it becomes common knowledge that the cars all have video recording and tracking, the entire brand will be more likely to be skipped for something else. Teslas are already an example where all but the most skilled thieves will avoid stealing them.
> ...


You made my point. They don't necessarily stop crime, they are good for forensic purposes. I know sometimes they deter but in general are better for forensics. Cameras are easy to defeat. You wear a mask.

My point is that there there needs to be an immediate notification by the car to the owner. Audibly and by txt.

Cameras may be of use after that.

Btw, 2 weeks ago in Las Vegas a guy was stealing the home cameras. He was so stupid he didn't wear a mask. If he wore a mask he might have gotten away with it.


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

NR4P said:


> You made my point. They don't necessarily stop crime, they are good for forensic purposes. I know sometimes they deter but in general are better for forensics. Cameras are easy to defeat. You wear a mask.
> 
> My point is that there there needs to be an immediate notification by the car to the owner. Audibly and by txt.
> 
> ...


Well nothing necessarily guarantees to stop crime by your definition. Not a gun, not a wall, not a mall cop... Everything is a deterrent.
I like @FRC 's idea of adding a small sticker to the rear side window


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## kort677 (Sep 17, 2018)

JWardell said:


> Cameras absolutely stop crime.
> .


bwahahahaha, really? cameras stop crime? almost all banks have camera yet they still get held up, most stores like wal mart, target, malls all have cameras yet crimes occur in and out of those store daily. video surveillance is quite commonplace yet there is no shortage of criminal activities. 
now if you said that cameras can assist in identifying criminals after they commit a crime you'd have a smidgeon of credibility. 
crimes are caught on video quite often and more often than not they DO NOT result in the criminal being caught.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

kort677 said:


> cameras stop crime?


Perhaps a better wording would be "I believe cameras absolutely deter crime".


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## kort677 (Sep 17, 2018)

FRC said:


> Perhaps a better wording would be "I believe cameras absolutely deter crime".


cameras don't even deter crime, criminals are not impressed by cameras, the only things that cameras deter is my wife flashing


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

kort677 said:


> the only things that cameras deter is my wife flashing


No, it doesn't.


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## NJturtlePower (Dec 19, 2017)

kort677 said:


> cameras don't even deter crime, criminals are not impressed by cameras, the only things that cameras deter is my wife flashing





garsh said:


> No, it doesn't.


Just throwing it out there...new fetish film market?

Tesla Cam Voyeur Series? Just brainstorming here....


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

kort677 said:


> bwahahahaha, really? cameras stop crime? almost all banks have camera yet they still get held up, most stores like wal mart, target, malls all have cameras yet crimes occur in and out of those store daily. video surveillance is quite commonplace yet there is no shortage of criminal activities.
> now if you said that cameras can assist in identifying criminals after they commit a crime you'd have a smidgeon of credibility.
> crimes are caught on video quite often and more often than not they DO NOT result in the criminal being caught.


What are you talking about? Those banks would be held up all the time if there weren't camera's there! Why even bother locking up the money? 
I did not have the word ALL in my statement.


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## Jay Jay (Oct 26, 2018)

kort677 said:


> cameras don't even deter crime, criminals are not impressed by cameras, the only things that cameras deter is my wife flashing


I do feel that crime is deterred by cameras. Flashing is a crime, your wife no longer flashes, see? But more seriously, crime has dropped significantly over the past 30 years....cameras to be credited? (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/03/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/)


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## kort677 (Sep 17, 2018)

Jay Jay said:


> I do feel that crime is deterred by cameras. Flashing is a crime, your wife no longer flashes, see? But more seriously, crime has dropped significantly over the past 30 years....cameras to be credited? (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/03/5-facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/)


2+2=7?


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## Jay Jay (Oct 26, 2018)

kort677 said:


> 2+2=7?


Of course there are MANY reasons crime has dropped. I'm just saying that cameras are playing a role and it's silly to think they aren't. People act differently when they think they're being watched. Sure, there are morons who are too stupid to understand their crimes are being caught on camera or just don't give a flying F, but many more do.


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## Chan B (Aug 31, 2017)

Reality Check! This is not going to stop break ins or help cops. they will ignore it like they have been doing in every major city. Car Break ins just doing do it anymore for cops to act. This is just another update for Elon to let us know that he is way behind on Smart Summon or Unassisted Lane change update.


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## Spinball (Jun 20, 2017)

Good luck to anyone expecting their local PD to do anything with video of someone breaking your car window, especially in the Bay Area where it's reach epidemic levels. It's easy to find examples where perpetrators were caught on video yet police did nothing.

The hard truth is they simply have more important things to do than worry about your (relatively speaking) *extremely *petty theft/damage. I think potentially snagging a license plate on a hit and run (while car is parked) is probably the best result one could reasonably expect, and even then you'll be lucky if police act on it (again, refer to above link).

IMO the window sticker "Smile! You're on camera" is probably more likely to deter potential break-ins anyway.


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## MJJ (Aug 7, 2016)

I’ve had great video footage of my last two robberies, and it didn’t seem to help the investigators any.


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## MMMGP (Dec 20, 2018)

I was sideswiped on California State Route 237 by another car and that driver sped off after making full contact to the side of my car at 65mph. I called 911 and chased the driver for a few miles. The car had plastic dealer plates so without that info the dispatcher at CHP said that they're understaffed and to just drive to a local CHP office to file a report. So yeah, Bay Area law enforcement is too busy dealing with the real issues, they could care less about some broken windows and dented up bodywork.


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## Karl Sun (Sep 19, 2018)

JWardell said:


> Well nothing necessarily guarantees to stop crime by your definition. Not a gun, not a wall, not a mall cop... Everything is a deterrent.


 This statement is correct - they're all "just deterrents".

Some of those might get you an insurance discount though


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## John (Apr 16, 2016)

In the context of someone breaking into your car—a never-investigated misdemeanor—it won't help at all where I live (Bay Area California).
Police want to see your smash and grab video about as much as people want to see your dog pictures on Instagram.


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## PandaM3 (Apr 23, 2018)

Maybe "Sentry" mode can evolve into "KITT" mode where if the car senses danger then the car autonomously moves itself to another parking spot elsewhere. If the thief manages to get into the car it can lock them in the car and autonomously drive to the nearest police department.

That being said... if PD won't investigate these petty crimes after the fact then they need to take aggressive steps to prevent these crimes before the fact.


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## SR22pilot (Aug 16, 2018)

John said:


> In the context of someone breaking into your car-a never-investigated misdemeanor-it won't help at all where I live (Bay Area California).
> Police want to see your smash and grab video about as much as people want to see your dog pictures on Instagram.


I was reading that the problem in the Bay Area is that, for break-ins, they just ask nicely for the criminals to show up in court. There is no bail. Basically criminals know it is a joke and they will never be punished. Go to a small Mississippi town and get the Sheriff involved. The outcome will be different. We seem to have this attitude today that "Insurance will cover it" so why worry.


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## ummgood (Feb 13, 2017)

I have cameras around my house. I do think they help. We have a lot of package theft in our neighborhood and I have had video of people walking up to my porch and turning away when they see the camera. Now with that said do I think cameras will help with smashing our Teslas? No. I also don't think it will help unless we use something like social media to start posting the people's images all over the place.

Austin is a large city and the police don't want to have anything to do with package thefts in our area BUT when a bunch of video evidence is collected by the neighbors showing the same person stealing a bunch of packages from the same neighborhood then they have enough charges to actually do something about it. It would be tough to stop a single theft or crime but when someone is a criminal making multiple crimes if you can help the police put some of the puzzle together it helps. Believe me I have seen it happen a couple times in our neighborhood where the neighbors band together and go to the police to demand justice and that usually gets their attention.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

SR22pilot said:


> I was reading that the problem in the Bay Area is that, for break-ins, they just ask nicely for the criminals to show up in court. There is no bail. Basically criminals know it is a joke and they will never be punished. Go to a small Mississippi town and get the Sheriff involved. The outcome will be different. We seem to have this attitude today that "Insurance will cover it" so why worry.


am sure you are not wrong, but also the issues a bay area cop is dealing with daily is not remotely close to what that Mississippi small town sheriff will ever see


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

ummgood said:


> I have cameras around my house. I do think they help. We have a lot of package theft in our neighborhood and I have had video of people walking up to my porch and turning away when they see the camera. Now with that said do I think cameras will help with smashing our Teslas? No. I also don't think it will help unless we use something like social media to start posting the people's images all over the place.
> 
> Austin is a large city and the police don't want to have anything to do with package thefts in our area BUT when a bunch of video evidence is collected by the neighbors showing the same person stealing a bunch of packages from the same neighborhood then they have enough charges to actually do something about it. It would be tough to stop a single theft or crime but when someone is a criminal making multiple crimes if you can help the police put some of the puzzle together it helps. Believe me I have seen it happen a couple times in our neighborhood where the neighbors band together and go to the police to demand justice and that usually gets their attention.


or it gets posted by the local news station(s)


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## ummgood (Feb 13, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> am sure you are not wrong, but also the issues a bay area cop is dealing with daily is not remotely close to what that Mississippi small town sheriff will ever see


Haha! This is so true! It might not help us in big cities but believe me you get a small town cop that is used to dealing with a neighbor throwing dog poop on porches they absolutely love a good 'case'. I lived in a small town in California that had 4 police officers. I had identity theft so I needed a police report. I called the police station. Let me tell you that officer went into full alert investigation mode. He was requesting documentation from the banks, etc... I had so much info it was astounding. So yea big cities are tough but if you have camera evidence it would make a Mayberry police officer's day.


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## ummgood (Feb 13, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> or it gets posted by the local news station(s)


Yeah if you have video evidence it is candy to news stations. I think the only thing that is better is if you wear curlers and a moo moo when you do the interview.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

ummgood said:


> Yeah if you have video evidence it is candy to news stations. I think the only thing that is better is if you wear curlers and a moo moo when you do the interview.


maybe just because locally we are on the brink of being snowed/iced in, but instead of hair curlers, my mind immediately went to this:


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## ummgood (Feb 13, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> maybe just because locally we are on the brink of being snowed/iced in, but instead of hair curlers, my mind immediately went to this:


I love the pants! I bet those players are amazing at sweeping the floor in their house. I bet their significant others try to get them to sweep up all the time.


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## SR22pilot (Aug 16, 2018)

ummgood said:


> Haha! This is so true! It might not help us in big cities but believe me you get a small town cop that is used to dealing with a neighbor throwing dog poop on porches they absolutely love a good 'case'. I lived in a small town in California that had 4 police officers. I had identity theft so I needed a police report. I called the police station. Let me tell you that officer went into full alert investigation mode. He was requesting documentation from the banks, etc... I had so much info it was astounding. So yea big cities are tough but if you have camera evidence it would make a Mayberry police officer's day.


Your comment reminds me of my interaction with the police in a small town and why I made the comment I did. Many years ago I was living in Starkville, MS. My mail was being stollen at a regular time. I reported it but nothing happened. I took off from work and hid in some woods and saw the person stealing my mail. I took pictures including ones of his car complete with license plate. I was angry because a miniature violin sent from my mother had been stolen along with items for my upcoming honeymoon and some stock certificates. When I showed the police the photos, they jumped into action and quickly arrested the guy. It was rather sad. It turned out he had thrown the valuable stuff away. What he was after were women's lingerie catalogs along with Valentine's cards some young girls had been receiving.


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

Karl Sun said:


> This statement is correct - they're all "just deterrents".
> 
> Some of those might get you an insurance discount though


I'm calling my insurance right away and asking for the mall cop discount!


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## ummgood (Feb 13, 2017)

JWardell said:


> I'm calling my insurance right away and asking for the mall cop discount!


I think that discount only applies to Segway's.


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## ecooney007 (Feb 26, 2019)

THEFT
-------
Since we are talking about theft (i think), just wanted to share my story from a weeks back here in the Bay Area in CA.
Wife went to get nails done in local shopping center about 2 miles away. low crime area.
Came out about an hour or so later, the right-front passenger window was smashed and her laptop got stolen.
Its the first time she left her laptop bag in the car, which sucks, but a painful lesson.
LESSON: DO NOT LEAVE ANYTHING IN YOUR TESLA.
As I drove over to make sure she and my daughter were ok, and to see what happened, a white MODEL S parked nearby (like literally 50 feet from a Dicks Sporting Goods) had glass on the ground as well.
But this one did not have any bags etc in the main area, so they smashed the small rear right-side window and opened the back hatch to see if there was anything there worth stealing.
When the police came, he said 4 TESLA's had been broken into within the span of 1.5 hrs in the the same shopping center.
This was all 2 days after the first Sentry Mode (HAL9000) update had been pushed. But no alarms went off in any of the 4 vehicles, sadly.
It wouldn't have mattered anyway, I heard from Tesla that Sentry Mode was not fully functional at that point.
LESSON: MAKE SURE YOU ENABLE THE LATEST VERSION OF SENTRY MODE - YOU MAY NEED TO DO THIS EACH TIME YOU EXIT?

DAMAGE
----------
The right-front passenger side window was smashed. It happened at night, so when I got home, I couldn't really see the extent of the damage.
The next day
~~~~~~~~~~~
The next day in the light, I could see the full extent of the damage.
When he reached into the car to grab the bag, he scratched up the area on that door near the handle and made small scratches all the way to the side-mirror.
When he smashed the glass, some of it hit the rear door panel as well and scratched the paint there.
Some pieces got on the first console panel next to the middle compartment and scratched that up pretty nicely.
Some glass ended up on the plastic cover under the windshield, but no visible scratches there.
So It wasn't just the window, it was pretty extensive.
My wife got the Car in Nov 2018, and was still in honeymoon phase, loves the car, and was pretty upset.

REPAIR
--------
Replace the window.
Repaint the front passenger side door.
Repaint the rear passenger side door.
Possibly replace the 1st center console plastic panel.

INITIAL CLEANUP
--------------------
GENTLY vacuumed the glass out of the window well. The glass pieces although small, are very sharp, PLEASE WEAR GLOVES during cleanup.
GENTLY vacuumed the floor and the seat, front and rear. It had been raining when the police report was made out so of course there was a ton of rain water on the seat and inside door.
DABBED a rag on the seat and floor, do not wipe the seat or you could scratch the upholstery.
Got most of the glass pieces out of the car.

INSURANCE
------------
This is just my experience so far, maybe other people had better luck, but of course, this is not a fun process.
Have GEICO.
They were very pleasant on the phone.
Since it was a no-fault incident it was covered with us just paying the deductible and they would not be raising our insurance rates.
Told me there was a place in South Bay (20 or so miles from East Bay) the could start the work the next day,
they would have a rental car waiting for me, and it would take a few weeks to finish the repairs.

Not so much.
The shop I went to in South Bay, was just an insurance estimator location for GEICO.
There was no rental car facility there or nearby, nothing was waiting for me in that regard.
The guy told me they stopped offering to do repairs on Tesla's because it took FOREVER to get parts, sometimes more than a month.
LESSON: Make sure you ask the insurance rep on the phone if the place they are recommending can;
1. Create an official Estimate of the Damage.
2. Actually DO THE WORK, or a better question is, are they AN AUTHORIZED TESLA REPAIR FACILITY. ASK THEM AGAIN TO VERIFY THIS.
3. SEE HOW FAR AWAY THE SHOP IS FROM YOUR HOUSE. ASK IS THERE SOME PLACE CLOSER?
4. IS THERE REALLY A RENTAL CAR FACILITY ON PREMISES OR NEARBY?
5. CALL THE FACILITY THEY RECOMMEND FIRST BEFORE YOU GO THERE, CONFIRM ALL THEY THINGS THE INSURANCE CO TOLD YOU - AND RAISE HOLY HELL IF NONE OF IT IS TRUE (kidding, but definitely call insurance co back and let them know if what they told you is wrong so they can update their info on that repair location and you can get an authorized repair shop that will actually do the work. Most insurance reps are not in your area, they have never been to or even contacted that particular location EVER, and their information in their system on it could be outdated - ESPECIALLY REGARDING TESLAs).

So I drove back to East Bay to my local Tesla Dealer to Supercharge the car, and to ask them which Body Shops nearby were authorized to
work on Tesla's.
Apparently Tesla won't sell parts to just any shop, AND I was told, not sure if this is true, but allegedly, all parts are ordered just in time from the Tesla division or OEM mfg plant, and there is nothing in inventory, or VERY little.
Luckily there was a shop about a mile away and took it over there in the pouring rain, and they agreed to do the repair, but they warned me that it could take a VERY LONG time to get the window. They had a Tesla MODEL S there already for over a month waiting for a glass roof.
Since it was pouring out (our rainy season here is like DEC thru late MARCH), I decided to just take the car home and put it in my garage, instead of leaving it outside in the elements at the Body Shop parking lot. They would have put plastic over the window hole, but it has rained so much since then, the interior would be ruined by now if I had left it there.
LESSON: If you have a smashed window, or damage where the car is drivable, and you have a garage, GET THE CHECKED OUT AT THE SHOP, PROCESS AND SIGN THE PART AND REPAIR ORDER, THEN TAKE THE CAR HOME, AND CHECK WITH THE SHOP INTERMITTENTLY TO SEE THE STATUS OF THE PART, DO NOT LEAVE IT AT THE SHOP IF AT ALL POSSIBLE.

LATEST
--------
The Repair shop just called, the WINDOW IS IN! It did not take even 2 weeks to get the part!! The shop was happily surprised, as was I. I'll be taking the car there tomorrow at 8:00 am will update this further when the repair is done and paid out.

Thieves really seem to be targeting Teslas esp around the Bay Area.
I hope no-one ever has to deal with this, but just don't leave anything, any bags, laptops, ANYTHING in the car, and really don't leave anything in the trunk or frunk either. 
If they smash a window then, at least they won't get your latop, etc.


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## ummgood (Feb 13, 2017)

ecooney007 said:


> THEFT
> -------
> Since we are talking about theft (i think), just wanted to share my story from a weeks back here in the Bay Area in CA.
> Wife went to get nails done in local shopping center about 2 miles away. low crime area.
> ...


I hope your repair goes well. Mine was a nightmare after they got the parts in.


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