# Calculated Range Loss



## erock841 (Aug 26, 2018)

Hey All,

I picked up my P3D+ back in September and I recently noticed a sudden drop in calculated range. I downloaded the data from Stats (amazing app) and saw I went from a peak range of 308mi at 7878 miles on the odometer to just 295mi at 8074 miles on the odometer and it's rarely been over 300mi in the subsequent 500 miles. I'm struggling to understand what happened? I typically only charge to 80% or 90% overnight and I've only supercharged maybe half a dozen times. Has anyone else see a sudden drop under 10k miles? I find it hard to believe the battery has actually lost 5%. Is there a way to reset set the range calculation or is something wrong with my battery.

thanks,
-Erik


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## Mr. Spacely (Feb 28, 2019)

Have you charged to 100% one time to re-calibrate the battery?


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## erock841 (Aug 26, 2018)

Yes I did. About 300 miles ago, I charged to 100% for a roadtrip and I'm still seeing much lower calculated range.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

erock841 said:


> Hey All,
> 
> I picked up my P3D+ back in September and I recently noticed a sudden drop in calculated range. I downloaded the data from Stats (amazing app) and saw I went from a peak range of 308mi at 7878 miles on the odometer to just 295mi at 8074 miles on the odometer and it's rarely been over 300mi in the subsequent 500 miles. I'm struggling to understand what happened? I typically only charge to 80% or 90% overnight and I've only supercharged maybe half a dozen times. Has anyone else see a sudden drop under 10k miles? I find it hard to believe the battery has actually lost 5%. Is there a way to reset set the range calculation or is something wrong with my battery.
> 
> ...


have had a similar drop since 2019.12.x (and last October with 39.7). I expect it will jump back up with a future FW release.









Since the drop with 12.x, I have had a couple small trips, so was able to charge to near 100% and let the battery get down to around 10% and recharge to nearly full again - with no change. (same with the drop last fall... really don't think Tesla's software needs to 'recalibration' charging many have learned from prior EVs).


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## erock841 (Aug 26, 2018)

Thanks Melinda! I didn't start using Stats until about 4k miles so I'm not sure if I had the same drop in October but it looks like we have the same issue and it probably comes from 2019.12.x. Let's hope the SW engineers fix a few 1's and 0's on the next release to bring it back up.


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## Major Victory (Oct 25, 2018)

I have noted the same/similar drop in full charge miles from 310 to 298-303 varies by week with rare 100% charge for theoretical re balance only.

I wonder if the Stats app/graph is accurate and how exactly its calculated since it varies from charge to charge even if everything else is relatively static.


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## Scubastevo80 (Jul 2, 2018)

I also use stats and noticed mine showing a drop over the winter (from 310 to about 304 now). Every plot point for the last 1000 miles is above the trend line so I expect to see it go back up as we move through the spring.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

MelindaV said:


> have had a similar drop since 2019.12.x (and last October with 39.7). I expect it will jump back up with a future FW release.
> View attachment 25900
> 
> 
> Since the drop with 12.x, I have had a couple small trips, so was able to charge to near 100% and let the battery get down to around 10% and recharge to nearly full again - with no change. (same with the drop last fall... really don't think Tesla's software needs to 'recalibration' charging many have learned from prior EVs).


Your plot is really interesting. The step changes are very distinct and nice to see that it did return to normal last time. But I have to say I've seen no change whatsoever in the scaled up full range with any of the firmware updates. I started with 2018.42.4 in November so could have missed the first snafu you experienced. But I just reviewed my 17 charges since I received 2019.12 (I first got 12.nothing and then got 12.1.2), and all charges scale up to my normal chatter between 308 and 310. It would seem that there is more going on than just a firmware update, or it is perplexing how they affect different cars in different ways. We both have LR AWD but mine is an October 2018 build.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

Bigriver said:


> Your plot is really interesting. The step changes are very distinct and nice to see that it did return to normal last time. But I have to say I've seen no change whatsoever in the scaled up full range with any of the firmware updates. I started with 2018.42.4 in November so could have missed the first snafu you experienced. But I just reviewed my 17 charges since I received 2019.12 (I first got 12.nothing and then got 12.1.2), and all charges scale up to my normal chatter between 308 and 310. It would seem that there is more going on than just a firmware update, or it is perplexing how they affect different cars in different ways. We both have LR AWD but mine is an October 2018 build.


the fall one was 2018.39.7 (I installed Oct 13, but drop in range didn't happen until Oct 23), I installed 42.4 on Oct 30, and my range went back up on Nov 3. So even more interesting that in the 39.7 range dip, it was 10 days after the update, but nearly immediately following the new update it went back up. (It still seems like there are some incremental changes that happen within a FW release that we don't have specifics on).

as far as the scaled up full range, it only went to the RWD cars (except @SoFlaModel3's RWD, just because), but not the dual motor cars


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

MelindaV said:


> as far as the scaled up full range, it only went to the RWD cars (except @SoFlaModel3's RWD, just because), but not the dual motor cars


Just to clarify what I meant by scaled up full range was that when I charge to some percentage, looking at the equivalent 100% charge. So when I charge to 90% and have 279.3 rated miles, that scales up to 310 at 100%. I did have two 100% charges that were 310 rated miles on the dot. The other charges were partial changes, as it should be, but all showed equivalent rated range near 310 miles.

Yes, I'm aware that only the RWD got the jump to 325 miles, but lots of antidotal stories of it not actually increasing, or not that much.


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## erock841 (Aug 26, 2018)

Here's what my range data looks like just as a comparison. Definite downward trend after 7500mi, reaching new lows every few days.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

Bigriver said:


> Just to clarify what I meant by scaled up full range was that when I charge to some percentage, looking at the equivalent 100% charge. So when I charge to 90% and have 279.3 rated miles, that scales up to 310 at 100%. I did have two 100% charges that were 310 rated miles on the dot. The other charges were partial changes, as it should be, but all showed equivalent rated range near 310 miles.
> 
> Yes, I'm aware that only the RWD got the jump to 325 miles, but lots of antidotal stories of it not actually increasing, or not that much.


There was a bug in that update and many RWD cars are still stuck on 310 (mine included as @MelindaV pointed out  ) That must indicate that there are hardware variations and the update didn't account for all variants.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

These different graphs are very intriguing to me. Here is mine from Teslafi with absolutely none of the big dips.









Another difference from those given by @MelindaV and @erock841 is fewer data points, although I'm at slightly more miles (10k milestone hit yesterday!). We do not charge every day and tend to cycle between roughly 90% to 30%. Also over half the miles are road trips with supercharging.

I realize that I'm annoyingly posting about no range loss in a thread about range loss. But I thought it might be a helpful contrary piece of data.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

Bigriver said:


> These different graphs are very intriguing to me. Here is mine from Teslafi with absolutely none of the big dips.
> 
> View attachment 25906
> 
> ...


interesting... I typically charge each night from 70-85% (on a 50A WC), occasionally times with more miles or not plugging in over night with something closer to 40%-85%, and about 10 short trips of 300-500ish miles using superchargers at least one way where charging would be closer to 10%-85%ish. until 2019.12.x, I'd been pretty steadily getting 262 miles at 85%.
maybe I'll stop plugging in each night and let it drop lower if not needing the range and see if that makes a difference.


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## NR4P (Jul 14, 2018)

LR RWD, 9K miles and 12.1.2 is very odd indeed.

1. I can go into a restaurant, have a 1 hour lunch and lose 5 miles without any cabin cooling on. 
2. Have lost 5 miles while at dinner for 1hr, 40 mins, at night, no cabin cooling, no sentry either.
3. On 3 occasions, 2 in my garage at night, cabin A/C was cooling full blast, super high speed. Only way to stop it, go in car and manually turn A/C off, leaving it on Auto caused this.

(SC told me all of the above caused by cabin cooling left on, what a crock of BS. And then told me I should turn off battery conditioning too. I asked, where's that in the menu?)

Suspected a loss of range, let car drop to 4%, charged to 100%, stopped at 312 miles. 4% below 325 claim by Elon.
Using HPWC

When car needed a charge, charged it to 90%. It stopped at 281 miles, that's 312 miles at 100%.

Today at work using NEMA 14-50 charged to 90%, stopped at 281 miles. 20 mins later I got into car, it now showed 285 miles. Does that mean 100% is now 316 miles? 3% off.

SC says wait for new updates.

Between the A/C turning itself on for no reason, and the crazy vampire drain at times this release has some issues.
I have never seen this kind of variability, A/C behavior and vampire drain since 12.1.2.


BTW. I also noted that the car's dashcam records for 20 mins after I park it, in my garage. If I go to the car a half hour after parking it, I can see clips for 20 mins since last exit of car. They are in the Recents folder. No, Sentry is not on. I wonder if that has something to do with reduction while parked?


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## Deadbattery (May 8, 2017)

I don't know...

I am on 12.1.2 now have 27,500 miles on my LR 3 ( I know!) and on three recent charges to 90% showed an implied range of 311, 327 and 322. Regardless of recent fluctuations, I am guessing my range drop off is 1-2% but I don't track it except to notice where I charge to.

by way of habits, I drive a lot but only charge over 80% when I know I am going to use the range. I often go days between charges in my regular commute since there is a convenient level 2 charger blocks from my office that is FREEEE. I supercharge only on road trips and RARELY 3 times in the last year? 

Since I think the LR even at 325 is software locked, (original EPA range was like 334) I don't believe I have ever effectively charged to 100%.


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## JML (Jul 26, 2018)

Here is my chart, with the software revisions approximately overlaid on the chart.


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## groundlevelpaint (Oct 19, 2018)

Well what do your guys think, almost 20,000 miles 8 months of ownership tried calibrating and recalibrating battery. Tesla service told me what to do and here I am this morning.if you do the math I think this puts me at 5% of 310 miles for a all-wheel drive long range, Is this within acceptable parameters?


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

groundlevelpaint said:


> Well what do your guys think, almost 20,000 miles 8 months of ownership tried calibrating and recalibrating battery. Tesla service told me what to do and here I am this morning.if you do the math I think this puts me at 5% of 310 miles for a all-wheel drive long range, Is this within acceptable parameters?


that's where mine is at too, and most all of the drop happened after May this year (specifically after 2019.12.1.x. I've tried multiple recharges from sub 10% to 95-100% without any change. Tesla claims this is all normal and expected. I think a 5 mile drop in range overnight isn't normal, followed but another few miles here/there. 








on those larger recharges, I've also taken the kW vs percentage of battery and came up with 100% capacity at 73kWh. while before may when doing a large recharge, that number was just over 75kWh. the 2kWh difference multiplied by the 240Wh/mile comes out to the drop I've seen since May. So something in the software or battery management system is not using 2kWh of my battery that it previously was.


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## groundlevelpaint (Oct 19, 2018)

I've researched degradation and the norm is within the first year or 20K you lose range but then the lost stops and holds four years. of course I am very optimistic seeing how I'm looking into buying my third EV. have a bolt premier and a model 3 so volt is almost an EV


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## ajdelange (Jun 26, 2019)

Here's 7 month's worth from my X 100D. I've plotted it vs time rather than the OD which is at 4100 miles at the time the plot was made. I've also noted where software updates were installed and the trend. I'm losing 1.7 miles per year. If that keeps up I'll be quite content.
Estimates were pretty tight around 293 mi up until the first week of March at which time they seemed to group around 294 only to drop back around the first of May with much greater dispersion. I don't see anything to suggest the estimates can be correlated with new software.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

@ajdelange, Here is the plot from my 100D model X (September 2017 build) which is currently at about 26,000 miles. It showed 296 miles the day we got it, and a rough spell between 6000 and 12,000 miles, which was March to June 2018. But it has clearly leveled out. Don't expect you to necessarily see this same pattern as there seems to be so much individual variation between cars, but thought you might find this of some interest.


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## ajdelange (Jun 26, 2019)

I do. Thanks.

I might very well eventually see a pattern similar to yours as yours is evidently typical but, as you note, variation between cars is all over the map. At this point I'm wondering whether the decline correlates more with age or miles or perhaps number of charges which, of course, correlates with number of miles. Interesting that all the histories posted here suggest that something happens around 6 - 8 k.


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## srjinatl (Oct 10, 2018)

Well - I am growing a bit concerned at the drop mine has shown - and I would agree it does seem to be around 6000 miles when the significant drop in mine was triggered. I took a look back at that time didn't really notice anything special. No road trips or super charging - just daily commute of about 50 miles or so - give or take - typically would charge each day during the week and would often skip charging on the weekend. So my typical daily charge cycle was from 60% to 80%. I recently tried charging to 100% to see where it would stop and it stopped at 280 miles. Since then it has bumped up a bit as you can see from the graph. I think I may start charging every other day and see how that goes - that will take the battery down to about 30-40% or so. Any other suggestions? Should I ask Tesla to take a look at it?


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## Russell K Smith (Mar 31, 2017)

They changed my range this past weekend during the Hurricane since I live in Florida from 240 to 220. on MY SR+


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## Kizzy (Jul 25, 2016)

Russell K Smith said:


> They changed my range this past weekend during the Hurricane since I live in Florida from 240 to 220. on MY SR+


Your range went down‽


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