# M3 Onboard Charger 48 Amps



## Sandy (Jun 3, 2017)

Finally found the pic I was looking for:

http://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-to-come-with-48-amp-onboard-charger/


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## EValuatED (Apr 29, 2017)

Yes there's this, leading us to conjecture that the M3 may offer 48A charging,

The Tesla statements that the LR will charge at 37 mph @ 40A, and,

The 2nd Gen Mobile Connector that is said will come with our M3s has max 32A (even if on a NEMA 14-50) -- so perhaps a lower cost (of manufacture) unit than the MS/X UMC or Corded MC. 

I feel like we're still in anti-sell land -- what is the max charge rate for our future M3s? 48A or 40A?


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## Watts4me (Nov 25, 2016)

Does this mean Tesla is holding out on us?


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## Sandy (Jun 3, 2017)

No, they just won't confirm. Yet. They will have to when the configure opens to the first non-employees.


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## skygraff (Jun 2, 2017)

Sandy said:


> Finally found the pic I was looking for:
> 
> http://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-to-come-with-48-amp-onboard-charger/
> 
> View attachment 3148


Not to negate the insider information but isn't that car on a supercharger and doesn't that bypass the onboard charger?

Then again, can't seem to recall any other images of screens during supercharging where amps were selectable so I should stay out of this since I'm just a wannabe Tesla owner.


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## Sandy (Jun 3, 2017)

No, I think your right on. Not on a SC.

An please don't stay out of posting! I don't own one either! Yet!


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## Scuffers (Jun 8, 2017)

I'll put money on it has the very same onboard charger that the S&X do.

What they limit it to in SW is another story, much like the high power option on the S&X goes to some 72A (single Phase - 24A 3 Phase)


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2017)

Onboard charger has three 16A modules connected parallely in US and not elsewhere (for 3-phase input).
If there is price reduction on base model, then likely one module will be missing. Don't know about 3-phase solution,
though other EV's often have 32A capability on one phase only. Maybe that.


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## Scuffers (Jun 8, 2017)

Yes and no, the old 11KW ones did, the current S&X has 24Ax3, software locked to 16A unless you have the high amperage charger option (this replaces the second charger option)


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2017)

Financially doing software locks is not wise. S/X is not sold in huge quantities. M3 will. And standard range version will sell more when enthusistic wave passes.


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## Niko (Sep 2, 2017)

I wonder what charge rate will be when using gen 1 hpwc, i bought one second hand and my dip switch setting choices are different than gen 2.

I can set to 60amp dip switch for 48a charge on my gen1 hpwc (see first pic), yet no 48a-60amp option for gen 2 hpwc (see second pic)


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## Scuffers (Jun 8, 2017)

They are the same, just the way it;s written is different.

as I understand it, in the US, if you want 80A, you have to run a 100A breaker, etc (ie, de-rate the cct by 20%)

the wording used on the first is breaker the second is supply, the latter (supply) is actually what it will draw I would suggest (assuming the car can accept it).


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## Sandy (Jun 3, 2017)

That's really strange as the standard MS charger is 48 amps.


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## Scuffers (Jun 8, 2017)

Sandy said:


> That's really strange as the standard MS charger is 48 amps.


how so?


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## Sandy (Jun 3, 2017)

48 amp charge current selected (I realize the car is supercharging at this time). Just more verification the onboard charger is 48 amps on the LR. Trevor verified this months ago but there still seemed to be some confusion on this board and others. The 2 best charging options will be the UMC on a 14-50 with 40amps in the US and 32 amps in Canada or a Wall Connector on a 60 amp breaker with up to 48 in both countries. 
Sorry I'm not familiar with overseas charging.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Sandy said:


> 48 amp charge current selected (I realize the car is supercharging at this time). Just more verification the onboard charger is 48 amps on the LR.


As you say, the car is supercharging, therefore the on-board charger is being bypassed. So I don't really see this as verification of the max current for the onboard charger. Are you saying that this is a setting on the screen rather than a display of the current current (he says not-redundantly), and that it is not applicable to supercharging?


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## Sandy (Jun 3, 2017)

garsh said:


> As you say, the car is supercharging, therefore the on-board charger is being bypassed. So I don't really see this as verification of the max current for the onboard charger. Are you saying that this is a setting on the screen rather than a display of the current current (he says not-redundantly), and that it is not applicable to supercharging?


Exactly. Same here, except not supercharging:


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## Scuffers (Jun 8, 2017)

Well, the 48A is clearly not the supercharger charge rate as the screen is also showing 116 mi/hr - and 48A DC is nothing like enough to make that.


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## EMP40 (Jun 13, 2017)

Why would Tesla throttle the mobile connector to 32amps on a 14-50 connection? I put in 14-50 with a JuiceBox for my leased Focus EV specifically so that I could use all 40amps (10kWh) when I get the Tesla. i would hate to be on road trip using a 14-50 at only 32 amps.


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## Scuffers (Jun 8, 2017)

EMP40 said:


> Why would Tesla throttle the mobile connector to 32amps on a 14-50 connection? I put in 14-50 with a JuiceBox for my leased Focus EV specifically so that I could use all 40amps (10kWh) when I get the Tesla. i would hate to be on road trip using a 14-50 at only 32 amps.


derr...

so they can sell you an upgrade - same as they do with the S&M (and it's unlikely it's the Mobile Connector that's the limit, I bet it's SW controlling the on-board charger)


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2017)

EMP40 said:


> i would hate to be on road trip using a 14-50 at only 32 amps.


You are not supposed to wait at a NEMA plug. You should use DC charger anyway.


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## EMP40 (Jun 13, 2017)

arnis said:


> You are not supposed to wait at a NEMA plug. You should use DC charger anyway.


Using the mobile connector at home, or relatives house, out of the way location in a pinch, etc. If the Long Range on-board charger can handle 40amp the connector should to given the $9K price.


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## Phil Kulak (Jun 12, 2017)

EMP40 said:


> Why would Tesla throttle the mobile connector to 32amps on a 14-50 connection? I put in 14-50 with a JuiceBox for my leased Focus EV specifically so that I could use all 40amps (10kWh) when I get the Tesla. i would hate to be on road trip using a 14-50 at only 32 amps.


Because 32 amps is the most for North America. Sure, you can pull 40 in the US, but my guess is that Tesla wants to build one connector and not waste copper when it sells up North.


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2017)

32A is the max for EU (per phase) as well. Maybe they will keep that here too (and not 3x16A version, at least on base model).


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## viperd (Feb 17, 2017)

I understand that the long range Model 3 will charge faster (than standard range) with home connections. Does it also charge faster with Superchargers?


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

viperd said:


> I understand that the long range Model 3 will charge faster (than standard range) with home connections. Does it also charge faster with Superchargers?


Yes. Even for the S & X, cars with larger batteries are able to charge more quickly than cars with smaller batteries.


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## viperd (Feb 17, 2017)

garsh said:


> Yes. Even for the S & X, cars with larger batteries are able to charge more quickly than cars with smaller batteries.


Thanks. Out of curiosity, in the graph, do they charge quicker because they have more capacity, or because the onboard hardware allows for faster charging.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

viperd said:


> Thanks. Out of curiosity, in the graph, do they charge quicker because they have more capacity, or because the onboard hardware allows for faster charging.


For supercharging, it's limited by the ability of the battery to accept the current without overheating or otherwise being damaged.

The onboard charger is not involved in supercharging - that charger just handles converting AC to DC, while supercharging supplies DC directly to the battery.


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## Phil Kulak (Jun 12, 2017)

Has anyone else noticed that 48-amp charging on the 3 is now confirmed by Tesla:

https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation#wall-connector


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## EVfusion (Mar 10, 2017)

Phil Kulak said:


> Has anyone else noticed that 48-amp charging on the 3 is now confirmed by Tesla:
> https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation#wall-connector


Is that the correct URL? I found it quite confusing.
First it says "The Wall Connector can be installed on a circuit from 6 to 32 amps." but could not find reference to 48 amp charging or specific reference to Model 3.
Second it says "Every Tesla is delivered with a Tesla Wall Connector" but in a link comparing differences https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/blog_attachments/Charging_at_Home_Australia.pdf it says every Tesla comes with a "mobile connector bundle" and the wall connector is "available for purchase online ..." implying the wall connector is NOT delivered with every Tesla.

Is there a different Tesla URL referencing 48 amp charging on the Model 3?

Also can anyone confirm the Tesla Wall Connector is "delivered with every Tesla"?


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## Rusty (Sep 9, 2017)

Fun_for_the_grandkids said:


> Is that the correct URL? I found it quite confusing.
> First it says "The Wall Connector can be installed on a circuit from 6 to 32 amps." but could not find reference to 48 amp charging or specific reference to Model 3.
> Second it says "Every Tesla is delivered with a Tesla Wall Connector" but in a link comparing differences https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/blog_attachments/Charging_at_Home_Australia.pdf it says every Tesla comes with a "mobile connector bundle" and the wall connector is "available for purchase online ..." implying the wall connector is NOT delivered with every Tesla.
> 
> ...


You get a mobile charger, but no wall charger. Wall charger must be purchased separately.


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## Phil Kulak (Jun 12, 2017)

It's a domain owned by Tesla. It's legit.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Fun_for_the_grandkids said:


> Is that the correct URL? I found it quite confusing.
> First it says "The Wall Connector can be installed on a circuit from 6 to 32 amps." but could not find reference to 48 amp charging or specific reference to Model 3.
> Second it says "Every Tesla is delivered with a Tesla Wall Connector" but in a link comparing differences


You need to double-check your quotes. It says those things about the new Mobile Connector, not the Wall Connector.


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## EVfusion (Mar 10, 2017)

garsh said:


> You need to double-check your quotes. It says those things about the new Mobile Connector, not the Wall Connector.


 I've re-checked my Tesla web pages. Here's the results. For clarity I have included the URL in each screen shot. (From first screen image I followed the first link ('What charging equipment is included with Tesla vehicles'. Second screen shot in 3rd and 5th line of text shows TWC is '*also included*'. I then followed the second link shown at the bottom of the second screen shot. The third screen shot shows '*available for purchase online ...*' with respect to the TWC.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Oh, I see. You're getting Australia-specific documents.
Thanks for pointing that out!


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## Rusty (Sep 9, 2017)

Fun_for_the_grandkids said:


> I've re-checked my Tesla web pages. Here's the results. For clarity I have included the URL in each screen shot. (From first screen image I followed the first link ('What charging equipment is included with Tesla vehicles'. Second screen shot in 3rd and 5th line of text shows TWC is '*also included*'. I then followed the second link shown at the bottom of the second screen shot. The third screen shot shows '*available for purchase online ...*' with respect to the TWC.
> View attachment 3855
> View attachment 3855
> View attachment 3856
> ...


I don't see anything that says a Tesla Wall Charger is included.


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## EVfusion (Mar 10, 2017)

garsh said:


> Oh, I see. You're getting Australia-specific documents.
> Thanks for pointing that out!


 I just followed the link in https://teslaownersonline.com/threads/m3-onboard-charger-48-amps.4869/page-2#post-52490 . Although re-directed to the Tesla Australia web-site I had assumed it was the same. If the US and AU equivalents of screenshot 2 are different (ie Wall charger does not come bundled in US but does in AU), it would help explain the apparent inconsistency between screen-shots 2 and 3 (suggests the AU 'comparisons' link not updated to clarify that if _additional _wall chargers are required they are available online).
This also possibly explains the reference to 32 amps (there was no reference to 48 amps in the AU page) given the voltage differences. 
Without the US version of the relevant Tesla pages I can't be more definitive.


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## EVfusion (Mar 10, 2017)

Rusty said:


> I don't see anything that says a Tesla Wall Charger is included.


In attachment 3856 under the heading "What charging equipment is included with Tesla vehicles?" it says "... a Tesla Wall Connector is also included ..." Later in the same attachment but under the heading "How do I charge Tesla vehicles at home?" it says "Every Tesla vehicle is delivered with a Tesla Wall Connector. ..."
See also earlier comments by @garsh and my response.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Fun_for_the_grandkids said:


> I just followed the link in https://teslaownersonline.com/threads/m3-onboard-charger-48-amps.4869/page-2#post-52490 . Although re-directed to the Tesla Australia web-site I had assumed it was the same.


Yep, it's surprisingly different. Apparently, Teslas sold in Australia include a Wall Connector. 

There is a way to link to Tesla web pages & prevent the redirect.
Here are the Australian, US, and Canadian versions of the "home charging installation" page:
https://www.tesla.com/en_AU/support/home-charging-installation?redirect=no
https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation?redirect=no
https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/support/home-charging-installation?redirect=no


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## EVfusion (Mar 10, 2017)

garsh said:


> Yep, it's surprisingly different. Apparently, Teslas sold in Australia include a Wall Connector.
> 
> There is a way to link to Tesla web pages & prevent the redirect.
> Here are the Australian, US, and Canadian versions of the "home charging installation" page:
> ...


Thanks @garsh for the links and the tip on avoiding a redirect.
I agree, the three examples are remarkably different.


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## Rusty (Sep 9, 2017)

garsh said:


> Yep, it's surprisingly different. Apparently, Teslas sold in Australia include a Wall Connector.
> 
> There is a way to link to Tesla web pages & prevent the redirect.
> Here are the Australian, US, and Canadian versions of the "home charging installation" page:
> ...


Interesting. I wonder if the cost is $500 higher to cover the cost of the TWC.


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## EVfusion (Mar 10, 2017)

Rusty said:


> Interesting. I wonder if the cost is $500 higher to cover the cost of the TWC.


Who knows? Pricing, costs and margins differ between markets and over time. Although foreign exchange fluctuates, local prices tend to remain fixed for extended periods. In addition to manufacturing (imported) costs they will reflect local costs and the need for locally competitive pricing. Competition is mainly top German brands. Until recently Supercharger and Service Centre coverage was very limited in Oz so who knows how the accountants choose to allocate costs across different markets. 
But, as the number of second and third time Tesla buyers in Oz increases and the Model 3 is released (the RHD version due early 2019) the policy of bundling the TWC may change, of course.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Rusty said:


> Interesting. I wonder if the cost is $500 higher to cover the cost of the TWC.


I wonder why Tesla decided to include a home charger with the car just for that one market. Seems to be a strange decision.


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## EVfusion (Mar 10, 2017)

garsh said:


> I wonder why Tesla decided to include a home charger with the car just for that one market. Seems to be a strange decision.


Been thinking about it. The Australian/NZ TWC _and charge ports_ are tailored to that market. If the TWC were sold separately the possibly small volume may have required an excessive price. As marginal cost would have been much lower bundling meant everyone got a better deal. US volumes would result in different economics.


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## Phil Kulak (Jun 12, 2017)

Well, regardless of Tesla website localization, I'm pumped! 48 amps is a heck of a lot of juice (my Leaf that I was used to was 28), and quite a bit more than the 32 you get out of the included EVSE. This finally pushed me to order the wall charger. I've got most of the conduit for it run in my garage, and hopefully I can install it this weekend... to do nothing for at least several more months.


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## Vladimír Michálek (Sep 24, 2017)

I'm pretty sure it means 3x16A on 3-phase net in Europe for the LR M3.


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## Scuffers (Jun 8, 2017)

Vladimír Michálek said:


> I'm pretty sure it means 3x16A on 3-phase net in Europe for the LR M3.


Almost certainly it's the same charger as the current S&X, ie, capable of 3x16A either from 3 phase or single phase.

My hope is they offer the 16.5Kw option they do with S&X (or better still, an equivalent to the old 22KW dual charger option - lot of us have 100+A and/or 3 phase available and <4 hours for a full charge would be terrific!)


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2017)

22kW will not happen. They can't make M3 onboard charger faster nor more expensive compared to flagships.
Overall, M3's every single part should be half the price. This way vehicle will cost as much as it does.
I do not expect M3 SR will be able to handle 11kW (3x16A). Very likely 2x16A modules combined for 32A,
theoretically why not work with 3-phase input drawing only on 2 of them. Electrically that is fine.
I would be happy with that. Keeping home heating heat-pump (for night-time) on the third phase.
2x16A would be much better than 3x11A. 

Though it is also reasonable to suspect M3 has 2x24A modules. Cheapest design will win.


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## Scuffers (Jun 8, 2017)

arnis said:


> 22kW will not happen. They can't make M3 onboard charger faster nor more expensive compared to flagships.
> Overall, M3's every single part should be half the price. This way vehicle will cost as much as it does.
> I do not expect M3 SR will be able to handle 11kW (3x16A). Very likely 2x16A modules combined for 32A,
> theoretically why not work with 3-phase input drawing only on 2 of them. Electrically that is fine.
> ...


I agree, 22KW is not likely, I just think it would be great from a users perspective, specifically to reduce the reliance on superchargers for people who do multi-trip days for work.

As for the current cars, the model 3's that are out there seem to support 48A charging (there are a few pics about to show this).

the current limiting factor is the UMC for the 3 is limited, but nothing stopping you us an older UMC or the like (for us in EU land, normal type 2 3 phase or Tesla home charger)


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