# 12-way power seats....



## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

So this discussion has come up in spots, but let's throw a dedicated thread at it. We know the premium upgrades package gives you 12-way power adjustable seats.

So what are the 12 ways and more importantly how do you control them.

The below picture is of a production car.

The controls match my current car which to the best of my knowledge doesn't have 12-way seats.

So...

Seat bottom:
1 - Forward
2 - Back
3 - Up
4 - Down

Seat back:
5 - Forward 
6 - Back

Lumbar:
7 - Up
8 - Down
9 - Out
10 - In

So what are the other 2 and how do you control them?


----------



## TrevP (Oct 20, 2015)

Seat bottom tilt would be another 2 directions


----------



## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

TrevP said:


> Seat bottom tilt would be another 2 directions


You beat me to it. Just sat in my car and realized the tilt control.

So that settles the 12 and confirms my car is currently 12-way as well


----------



## Guest (Sep 4, 2017)

Base version seats likely will not have lumbar nor bottom tilt.


----------



## Sandy (Jun 3, 2017)

arnis said:


> Base version seats likely will not have lumbar nor bottom tilt.


Or just be manual


----------



## SwaggerWagon (Jul 9, 2017)

+1 for the tilt control, that's what I was thinking too.

Just had a Volkswagen Golf Wagon SE for my company car - pretty high trim level, with panoramic sunroof, 12 speaker sound system, Apple/Android carplay, etc. Only thing missing from compared to highest trim level was HID/LED headlights and TACC. But strangely, the car seat sliding forward/backward was manual. Every other movement of the seat was powered, but if you wanted to slide it, you had to reach under the seat for the lever.

I'm guessing the base model seats will be something similar to this - powered in some ways but not in others. I doubt it'll be fully manual at this price point.


----------



## Guest (Sep 10, 2017)

They will be fully manual. I understand Tesla's philosophy of simplification.
They will have TWO main wiring harnesses for Model 3 (plus AWD add-on harness).
Base version will miss lots of extra wires, like gazillion speakers, rear seat heaters, fogs,
wires for powering seat motors. PS: electric seats add a LOT of weight.
Base version should have 3-wires for heated seats, 2 wires for pyrotechnic pretensioner,
2 wires for buckle detection and passenger seat should have occupancy mat, 2 more wires.
In case of electric seats with memory, it needs 2 more wires for power and one bus wire.

Tesla even wrote that standard equipment will be *6-way adjustable manual heated seats.*
Imagine these levers, like older 3-series had (newer have front-back lever at front edge)








As you see, 3 levers, one unlocks forward-backward motion, one height, one seatback.
On cheaper vehicles, passenger often misses height control (4-way manual passenger). Not 3-series.
Plus having height control missing on passenger will require another seat designs for RHD countries.
This is not simplification in terms of Tesla's philosophy. KISS. Though I hope UP-DOWN movement
is pump-style, as unlocked height control is pain in the ash like BMW had. 
If I had the chance to design manual seats, I would have two levers.
One pump-it-up&pump-it-down style for up-down movement, another one unlocks forward-backward
motion if pulled and same handle unlocks seatback if pushed down. Elegant and simple.


----------



## Scuffers (Jun 8, 2017)

arnis said:


> Base version seats likely will not have lumbar nor bottom tilt.


I really hope not, I have a hard time with most seats if you can't tilt them, they all seem to be far to 'bolt-upright' these days.


----------



## Sandy (Jun 3, 2017)

Scuffers said:


> I really hope not, I have a hard time with most seats if you can't tilt them, they all seem to be far to 'bolt-upright' these days.


On the base the seatback will have manual tilt. The seat base will be fixed.


----------



## Guest (Sep 14, 2017)

Scuffers said:


> I really hope not, I have a hard time with most seats if you can't tilt them, they all seem to be far to 'bolt-upright' these days.


I agree. But base seats will not have tilting bottom.
Raising the seat will help though.

For me, premium interior is much more valuable than premium range or premium look (wheels). I sit on the seat every day. Starting from first meter. I use extra range rarely. I hardly see my wheels. I always listen stuff from audio system. Therefore, premium interior is top priority on my list.


----------



## SSonnentag (Mar 30, 2017)

arnis said:


> * manual heated seats.*


Are manual heated seats ones that warm up due to your butt sitting on them? 

Sorry, couldn't resist.


----------



## Scuffers (Jun 8, 2017)

Sandy said:


> On the base the seatback will have manual tilt. The seat base will be fixed.


Are you sure on this?

If they don't even manually tilt (as in the seat base) that's a problem for me.


----------



## SSonnentag (Mar 30, 2017)

I've never heard of a seat with manual tilt. Not saying they don't exist, but I doubt they're too common. FWD, BACK, UP, DOWN, SEAT BACK TILT, and occasionally LUMBAR. That's all I've seen in manual seats.


----------



## Scuffers (Jun 8, 2017)

SSonnentag said:


> I've never heard of a seat with manual tilt. Not saying they don't exist, but I doubt they're too common. FWD, BACK, UP, DOWN, SEAT BACK TILT, and occasionally LUMBAR. That's all I've seen in manual seats.


Most VAG (Audi/VW/etc.) stuff has manual tilt (if not electric).


----------



## marcycharles3 (Mar 16, 2017)

SSonnentag said:


> I've never heard of a seat with manual tilt. Not saying they don't exist, but I doubt they're too common. FWD, BACK, UP, DOWN, SEAT BACK TILT, and occasionally LUMBAR. That's all I've seen in manual seats.


My 2002 Accord had "tilting" seat botoms. Instead if a single up down lever or something it was a front up/down knob and a rear up/Down knob. That's the only car I've seen that way though.


----------



## Sandy (Jun 3, 2017)

Scuffers said:


> Are you sure on this?
> 
> If they don't even manually tilt (as in the seat base) that's a problem for me.


I've never seen a manual seat base that you can adjust the front and back independently up and down. Lots of the have a raise and lower lever for the seat base. Who knows? We wait and see.


----------



## Guest (Sep 15, 2017)

Yep. I've sat on all those. BMW had offered manual seat back, manual slide, manual height, manual tilt, manual thigh extension, manual headrest height, angle, width & distance. Opel offered even manual 4-way lumbar (2 knobs). 

We know that base seats will have 6-directions. Slide and seatback are pretty much mandatory. Now either we choose height or tilt. For driver seat, height adjustment is extremely important. Tesla will not skip that.
In case of individual posture problems one can use cushions. My gaming chair comes with 2 pillows. One for neck, one for lumbar.


----------



## Scuffers (Jun 8, 2017)

arnis said:


> Yep. I've sat on all those. BMW had offered manual seat back, manual slide, manual height, manual tilt, manual thigh extension, manual headrest height, angle, width & distance. Opel offered even manual 4-way lumbar (2 knobs).
> 
> We know that base seats will have 6-directions. Slide and seatback are pretty much mandatory. Now either we choose height or tilt. For driver seat, height adjustment is extremely important. Tesla will not skip that.
> In case of individual posture problems one can use cushions. My gaming chair comes with 2 pillows. One for neck, one for lumbar.


lot of cheaper stuff in EU have separate front/back height adjustment, this effectively serves as tilt as well as height adjustment.


----------



## John (Apr 16, 2016)

I'm wondering if the lumbar height is settable. I suspect it's just "in/out." The button looks like it's just a horizontal toggle.

12-way seats in VW (for instance) are thus, with 2 degrees of freedom for each:

>fore/aft positioning
>seat height
> seat depth
>seat cushion angle
> backrest angle
> lumbar support in/out


----------



## Guest (Sep 16, 2017)

Seat depth?
2-way lumbar is often useless.


----------



## swampgator (Mar 26, 2017)

Too many adjustments can make a seat impossible to get right. Proper design is key to comfort. I have confidence Tesla has learned in this area.
My Honda S2000 had manual Recaro seats and they were more comfortable than any car I have owner before or after. Design the seats right and forward/backward and tilt is all you really need to be comfortable.


----------



## Scuffers (Jun 8, 2017)

swampgator said:


> Too many adjustments can make a seat impossible to get right. Proper design is key to comfort. I have confidence Tesla has learned in this area.
> My Honda S2000 had manual Recaro seats and they were more comfortable than any car I have owner before or after. Design the seats right and forward/backward and tilt is all you really need to be comfortable.


Lot to be said for getting the basic design right in the first place, that said, people vary a lot in size and shape.

My issue is I have short legs relative to my torso, so I usually want to lower the seat to stop my head being on the roof, but then need to tilt the base to provide support under my legs.


----------



## Mike McKelvey (Sep 16, 2017)

TrevP said:


> Seat bottom tilt would be another 2 directions


Lol - thought it may be something more nefarious or ribald!


----------



## sreams (Sep 12, 2017)

I've always found the "12-way" thing to be a bit silly. If a seat can move forward, of course it can also move backward. Should be 6-way.


----------



## L. David Roper (Apr 19, 2018)

Lumbar control is up/down & in/out.
Has anyone notice this odd thing?: If you get in the passenger side with no one in the driver side and wait for the screen to turnoff, the following happens in my TM3LR:
All passenger seat controls work except the lumbar control.


----------



## NJturtlePower (Dec 19, 2017)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> So this discussion has come up in spots, but let's throw a dedicated thread at it. We know the premium upgrades package gives you 12-way power adjustable seats.
> 
> So what are the other 2 and how do you control them?


Gen2 seats add the +2  and they are comfy for sure!

Now if I can just get my easy entry setting set up right... annoying that you have to erase and start over to modify...


----------



## Brett (Aug 1, 2017)

NJturtlePower said:


> Now if I can just get my easy entry setting set up right... annoying that you have to erase and start over to modify...


I think that once you're in easy entry mode (i.e. unbuckle you seat belt) you can just change setting and hit save, like you normally would for your actual profile. I always end up deleting and starting over anyway though, because that is the only way to get the seat coordinated between profiles so that only the steering wheel moves.


----------

