# Speculation: City Driving (limited number of testers)🚦



## Zek (Oct 28, 2018)

City Driving is being tested by a limited number of folks! We will learn more soon...


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

Doesn't make sense. The above scenario "...the system calculates the best speed needed to hit as many green lights as possible ..." would only work on one-way streets. And that's how we tried to control traffic signals 40 years back with no mind as to whether there was actually any cross traffic. Those inductive loop sensors in the pavement that started in the late 60's, iirc. The same ones that NEVER detected my Lotus Europa waiting at a turn lane,

Almost all intersections these days have some form of traffic detectors (cameras?) to know if there is cross traffic waiting. If there is none, the signal will not change just because the clock runs on.


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## Frully (Aug 30, 2018)

The far future of it is a hive mind of all the autonomous vehicles...not only strategically changing the lights, but shaping the platoons of traffic such that cross traffic only occurs in the gaps on the main traffic. Every lane in every direction is time division multiple access TDMA.

It's what they do with air traffic control now - giving landing clearance to intercontinental flights basically as they take off...advising their autopilot to speed up or slow down a few percent here or there to maintain arrival at their time slot. Previously flights would often go as quickly as possible to please the passengers, only to get stuck. No sense rushing to a destination to get stuck in a holding pattern.

Edit: Also exists sensors on some mid-stretch sections that if it detects you speeding, it doesn't do a speed-ticket photo radar...it just changes the light to red out of phase. The red light DOES have a camera. You get the time punishment as a warning.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Klaus-rf said:


> Doesn't make sense. The above scenario "...the system calculates the best speed needed to hit as many green lights as possible ..." would only work on one-way streets. And that's how we tried to control traffic signals 40 years back with no mind as to whether there was actually any cross traffic. Those inductive loop sensors in the pavement that started in the late 60's, iirc. The same ones that NEVER detected my Lotus Europa waiting at a turn lane,
> 
> Almost all intersections these days have some form of traffic detectors (cameras?) to know if there is cross traffic waiting. If there is none, the signal will not change just because the clock runs on.


Many two way streets, despite in street sensors and cameras have timed lights. Absolutely required for rush hour traffic. Dallas has several. Typically timed in toward downtown in the morning and out in the evening. Cross streets just suffer a little or if they do their job well, they can time the cross streets too at least for a few lights at a time.

Reality is that even after hours most lights don't react quickly enough to the sensors we do have.


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## TeslaTony310 (Jan 15, 2020)

Zak said:


> City Driving is being tested by a limited number of folks! We will learn more soon...


How soon is "soon"??


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

TeslaTony310 said:


> How soon is "soon"??


Hello! And welcome to Elon Time.


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## TeslaTony310 (Jan 15, 2020)

garsh said:


> Hello! And welcome to Elon Time.


Hello. Je je, I'm aware of Elon Time. I meant the "soon" Zak was using, not Elon :grimacing:


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## Zek (Oct 28, 2018)

TeslaTony310 said:


> Hello. Je je, I'm aware of Elon Time. I meant the "soon" Zak was using, not Elon :grimacing:


 BTW if you look at my previous record I am typically right - especially about smart summon and acceleration boost roll out! "Soon" would be Q1 or possibly Q2 of 2020 for initial small non employe roll out. You will see Early access program people post videos! But it will be as Alpha/Beta as early NOA or Smart Summon was. The delay is well worth it for city driving in my opinion, the level of difficulty and safety needs HW3 and a very very attentive driver. The improvement will be rapid after the rollout, in 6-9month it may be useful for safer smaller streets (Not NYC or LA) think small suburban city in CT or Cali. 
<start humor>You can technically engage autopilot at Zero MPH in the city today and the car will continue to FSD drive through a green light!<end humor>


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## TeslaTony310 (Jan 15, 2020)

Zak said:


> BTW if you look at my previous record I am typically right - especially about smart summon and acceleration boost roll out! "Soon" would be Q1 or possibly Q2 of 2020 for initial small non employe roll out. You will see Early access program people post videos! But it will be as Alpha/Beta as early NOA or Smart Summon was. The delay is well worth it for city driving in my opinion, the level of difficulty and safety needs HW3 and a very very attentive driver. The improvement will be rapid after the rollout, in 6-9month it may be useful for safer smaller streets (Not NYC or LA) think small suburban city in CT or Cali.
> <start humor>You can technically engage autopilot at Zero MPH in the city today and the car will continue to FSD drive through a green light!<end humor>


Not calling you a liar or anything, just curious what the timeframe was. I suspect they're gonna get a lot of angry folks who haven't gotten upgraded, when this starts rolling out.


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## Zek (Oct 28, 2018)

TeslaTony310 said:


> Not calling you a liar or anything, just curious what the timeframe was. I suspect they're gonna get a lot of angry folks who haven't gotten upgraded, when this starts rolling out.


As clearly indicated by my post there is a bit of humor! But if we look at it in pure financial terms Q1 timeframe would be the one to target for FSD revenue recognition. Acceleration Boost in Q4 took place of FSD Citi Driving revenue recognition. Tesla could push FSD any day, but it needs work just like Smart Summon and NOA.

I want Tesla to sit on FSD and Sit on upgrading my car to HW3, because I like as little bugginess as possible while being on the bleeding edge(I know it sounds counter, and you cant have it both ways). Smart Summon was not ready! City driving is not ready, but here we are. Scratch a few cars and have the NN learn. City driving is harder and riskier... 3 month may be 6 month for sure! Elon is often late, but he always delivers! Deliver he will... even if a few poorly marked fire hydrants or untaged random objects will get run over during City driving.


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

Zak said:


> untaged random objects will get run over during City driving.


Like a human?


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## Zek (Oct 28, 2018)

iChris93 said:


> Like a human?


 I drive to work sometimes, and to me it looks like the whole of NYC is a giant Ai edge case...


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## Mr. Spacely (Feb 28, 2019)

TeslaTony310 said:


> Not calling you a liar or anything, just curious what the timeframe was. I suspect they're gonna get a lot of angry folks who haven't gotten upgraded, when this starts rolling out.


I agree. My VIN is 300, xxx and I don't live in California, so city driving may come months before I get HW3...


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## Zek (Oct 28, 2018)

Mr. Spacely said:


> I agree. My VIN is 300, xxx and I don't live in California, so city driving may come months before I get HW3...


I think they will be able to preform around 20k-30k HW3 upgrades per quarter. Right now its about 1 day per car. Some cars are 1.5 days and some cars are 6h. The upgrade cycle will last 6-12month realistically. The problem I anticipate is service centers will need to manage HW3 upgrades vs service and repair. Maybe rangers can do it, but the liquid cooling in model 3 may pose a challenge.


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## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

Frully said:


> Edit: Also exists sensors on some mid-stretch sections that if it detects you speeding, it doesn't do a speed-ticket photo radar...it just changes the light to red out of phase. The red light DOES have a camera. You get the time punishment as a warning.


That reminded of my trip to Australia. There were sections of highways that would read my plate and timestamp the start of the leg and issue a ticket if I got to the other end too fast. Wicked.


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## Frully (Aug 30, 2018)

FrancoisP said:


> That reminded of my trip to Australia. There were sections of highways that would read my plate and timestamp the start of the leg and issue a ticket if I got to the other end too fast. Wicked.


Absolutely - time traps are common as well. I just like that traffic lights used as calming devices are a better motivator as it affects everyone equally, where monetary tickets don't really affect the wealthy.


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