# $440, 1st speeding ticket in 26 years but worth it



## swanson21

Well, of course it's in my new Tesla and I just passed someone doing 93 in a 55, I hit the go pedal to the floor with my AWD and feel like it's the safest way to pass is spending the least amount of time in the oncoming lane...officer in the lifted pickup (3rd vehicle) thought otherwise, he clocked me at 93mph. $440 ticket.

Have to say in a way I'm kinda proud of the ticket, it was worth it after all the great exhiliarating passes I've done on the highways. Love this car, just hope I can continue to drive it legally!


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## JasonF

You lingered too long at 90+, that's what got you in trouble.


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## Johnston

This is why I have Waze and a radar detector both going when I drive. That's a ticket I think a radar detector would have saved you from.


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## Feathermerchant

In Texas it is illegal to exceed the speed limit when passing.


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## MelindaV

Feathermerchant said:


> In Texas it is illegal to exceed the speed limit when passing.


it is here too.
especially by 40MPH


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## SoFlaModel3

Johnston said:


> This is why I have Waze and a radar detector both going when I drive. That's a ticket I think a radar detector would have saved you from.


I believe cops use laser in Texas if I am not mistaken and subsequently laser jammers are not legal in Texas. Long story short, Waze + Radar/Laser "Detection" is a false sense of security anywhere where laser is used.


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## MelindaV

and Waze isnt going to be of much help when passing a cop in on-coming traffic.


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## MJJ

Feathermerchant said:


> In Texas it is illegal to exceed the speed limit when passing.


I had thought that Texas was one of those states where there was leeway. I found this on some lawyer's site which seems to support:

There are three kinds of speed limit laws around the country: basic, absolute, and presumed.
Basic speed laws are fairly uncommon. These laws are hairy because the officer that issues the ticket can determine that you were driving too fast given the conditions at the time of the traffic stop. In other words, driving five miles under the speed limit in heavy precipitation or terrible visibility conditions can net you a ticket, especially if everyone else around you is driving more slowly. Similarly, driving too slow on a busy highway can also be dangerous and result in a ticket.
Most states have absolute laws. This means that the speed limit is absolute, no contest. Getting pulled over for one mph over the limit is a law violation.
Texas is in the category of speeding laws called presumed laws. A presumed violation gives drivers flexibility. Ticketing is also up to the discretion of the trooper, but as long as you are driving safely, going a few mph over the limit is considered legal. If you are pulled over for exceeding the limit by five mph on an empty highway under a clear blue sky, chances are good the ticket can be fought in court.


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## Feathermerchant

While I agree that you probably won't get a ticket for 5 over (except school zones) it is illegal to drive 1 mph over the limit.
And you know those XX MPH curve signs? They are traffic controls and it is illegal to disobey a traffic control.
Friend is a policeman.
Another note, a policeman's testimony in court is worth no more or less than any other citizen. That's why they need radar or some other unbiased measuring device.
Yes I know that radar can be wrong.


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## garsh

Feathermerchant said:


> Another note, a policeman's testimony in court is worth no more or less than any other citizen.


:rainbow:


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## PNWmisty

Feathermerchant said:


> While I agree that you probably won't get a ticket for 5 over (except school zones) it is illegal to drive 1 mph over the limit.


Agreed.



> And you know those XX MPH curve signs? They are traffic controls and it is illegal to disobey a traffic control.


I can't speak to other jurisdictions but in Washington State the XX MPH curve signs are advisory. A cop cannot ticket you merely for exceeding the advisory speed, only if you are being reckless. Merely exceeding the advisory speed is not considered reckless nor is it an infraction. Real speed limit signs are always white on black in Washington State.


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## TomT

If the officer was in a pickup, I doubt he used radar or lidar unless he was heading to or from work and happened to have it in his personal vehicle (which I assume a lifted pickup woud be)...



Johnston said:


> This is why I have Waze and a radar detector both going when I drive. That's a ticket I think a radar detector would have saved you from.


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## Klaus-rf

Feathermerchant said:


> In Texas it is illegal to exceed the speed limit when passing.


 In Arizona 20+ over the posted speed limit (or a state MAX of 85 MPH) is criminal. You get arrested, car may get impounded. IIRC it's a Reckless Driving level of points. And fines too.


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## MelindaV

TomT said:


> If the officer was in a pickup, I doubt he used radar or lidar...


but they now have a youtube video, posted by the owner, admitting the speed.


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## Silvermagic3

Klaus-rf said:


> In Arizona 20+ over the posted speed limit (or a state MAX of 85 MPH) is criminal. You get arrested, car may get impounded. IIRC it's a Reckless Driving level of points. And fines too.


I lived in AZ for 20 years and have known several people to pulled over for Criminal Speeding and none of them ever got arrested or impounded, but in every case the cop said it could happen if they felt like it. Its still a serious ticket, but I think the arrested/impounded thing is the worse case scenario and rarely happens. You still shouldn't do 20+ over!


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## swanson21

TomT said:


> If the officer was in a pickup, I doubt he used radar or lidar...


He said he got me on radar and he was driving the lifted pickup in the oncoming lane. It also took him about 10 mins to turn around and catch up to me from where he clocked me...he said it "it took me awhile to catch-up to you since you were doing 93" in his opening line to me...hah, ya for just a few seconds then I was back to around the normal 5 over everyone else was doing.



Klaus-rf said:


> In Arizona 20+ over the posted speed limit (or a state MAX of 85 MPH) is criminal. You get arrested, car may get impounded. IIRC it's a Reckless Driving level of points. And fines too.


I used to live in AZ and always remembered the strict speed rules, was worried I'd be going to jail since I'm not too familiar with Oregon laws. My wife who hates technology would've had to figure out how to drive the "cell phone on wheels" home.


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## AZ_M3

There's no slack when passing (safely) like this? I get it's all up to the officer, but the safest thing to do is gun it, get by and get over. Did the cop just not buy that you were passing someone and that's why you exceeded the limit?


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## Feathermerchant

Don't know about Az but over the speed limit is illegal here. Always has been since I took drivers ed in about 1972.


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## mswlogo

swanson21 said:


> Well, of course it's in my new Tesla and I just passed someone doing 93 in a 55, I hit the go pedal to the floor with my AWD and feel like it's the safest way to pass is spending the least amount of time in the oncoming lane...officer in the lifted pickup (3rd vehicle) thought otherwise, he clocked me at 93mph. $440 ticket.
> 
> Have to say in a way I'm kinda proud of the ticket, it was worth it after all the great exhiliarating passes I've done on the highways. Love this car, just hope I can continue to drive it legally!


If you're so proud of it, why not go for another ticket.


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## swanson21

AZ_M3 said:


> There's no slack when passing (safely) like this? I get it's all up to the officer, but the safest thing to do is gun it, get by and get over. Did the cop just not buy that you were passing someone and that's why you exceeded the limit?


He quickly cut me off as I was explaining calmly that I had just finished passing someone when his radar clocked me...and said "there's no safe time to be driving 93!" and I quickly shut-up as I did not want to get into an argument...as other's have said, he could have made it a criminal offense if he felt like I had an attitude or whatever...though I'm sure that would easily be reduced with the video of the last 60 minutes thanks to the usb dashcam of me following along peacefully with others at a "slow" pace the whole way until then.



mswlogo said:


> If you're so proud of it, why not go for another ticket.


I'm trying!!!


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## Frully

'our' (girlfriend's) only ticket in the new 3 was her passing a massive line of traffic in a brief passing zone of a winding mountain highway. Of course the police set up there. 

90km/h road
people driving 87ish, and slowing for the corners even more
passing zone, went around a dozen cars got ticketed at 127km/h (they put it below the threshold of criminal which I think is 40 over), And pretty sure max speed for that pass was well over 150 (same 90mph as you describe).

It's definitely frustrating that the safe action is also the unsafe action. Pass fast and get out of the way, good.
(if someone we were passing, say the number 2 or 3 car in line wanted to pull out - there would be no way for them to pass the slow leader because we were at such a high delta). 

As much as my anecdote is worth - I watch a LOT of dashcam videos from around the web and passing fast means that people can't see you coming.

In the end, 
our fault, our ticket.

The worst: when people slow down for the curves but get to the straight flat passing zone and think 'I'll be nice and not hold people up' so they speed up. they need to maintain that lower speed so people can pass safely without speeding too much.


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## TomT

Actually, the yellow signs are advisory, not regulatory. If you are over the advisory limit but not the posted regulatory limit, you will not get a ticket. Your friend needs to go back to policeman school...
Also, police are considered experts at estimating speed and a judge can accept their estimate. This is usually done by the officer saying that he estimated they re going over xx MPH, not an exact speed...
YMMV depending on the jurisdiction, of course...



> And you know those XX MPH curve signs? They are traffic controls and it is illegal to disobey a traffic control.
> Friend is a policeman.
> Another note, a policeman's testimony in court is worth no more or less than any other citizen. That's why they need radar or some other unbiased measuring device.
> Yes I know that radar can be wrong.


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## Mr. Spacely

In Florida a ticket cannot be issues without one of 3 elements of proof: radar, laser, or pacing (following you in their patrol car). Then in court the officer must prove the method was verified. So let's say radar was used, then the radar gun has to be tested and verified for accuracy regularly. Also officers are often in the middle of something more important and no show to court, then you win...


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## Frully

TomT said:


> Actually, the yellow signs are advisory, not regulatory. If you are over the advisory limit but not the posted regulatory limit, you will not get a ticket. Your friend needs to go back to policeman school...
> Also, police are considered experts at estimating speed and a judge can accept their estimate. This is usually done by the officer saying that he estimated they re going over xx MPH, not an exact speed...
> YMMV depending on the jurisdiction, of course...


Agreed, at least here in Alberta as well - but if you screw up, and fall off the road because you exceeded the advisory limit, or your (semi-tractor usually) load falls off, they will tack on 'exceed advisory limit' ticket onto your 'due care and attention' ticket. I find in most cars you can do the advisory limit in km/h as mph safely. (advisory exit speed 50km/h...do 50mph (about 90km/h) before the tires start squealing).


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## Johnston

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I believe cops use laser in Texas if I am not mistaken and subsequently laser jammers are not legal in Texas. Long story short, Waze + Radar/Laser "Detection" is a false sense of security anywhere where laser is used.


Stationery cops using lasers are reported on Waze. Radar detectors can also pick up lasers when it was aimed at other cars in front of you.


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## Johnston

TomT said:


> If the officer was in a pickup, I doubt he used radar or lidar unless he was heading to or from work and happened to have it in his personal vehicle (which I assume a lifted pickup would be)...


Unless the officer only turned it on after seeing the OP, which I doubt if he was driving on opposite side, it would have been detected by a radar detector well before OP made the pass.


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## Needsdecaf

The cop has a radar gun in his personal vehicle? Or is the lifted pickup a police vehicle? 

I'd be trying to fight this one. Were you really going 93? Doesn't look it from the video,. But then again, the dash cam doesn't show speed very well at all.


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## IPv6Freely

I got nailed on I-15 in north county San Diego. I guess I was going fast enough that the cop did the arms out, palms up, "WTF are you even doing?" motion. I didn't even wait for him to pull me over. 

I paid the ticket and did the online traffic school in about 20 minutes.


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## TomT

Most curve speeds are set at about .15 G as that is the fastest that most people are comfortable with. Any reasonable vehicle can corner at .6 G which is twice as fast.



Frully said:


> I find in most cars you can do the advisory limit in km/h as mph safely. (advisory exit speed 50km/h...do 50mph (about 90km/h) before the tires start squealing).


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## SoFlaModel3

Johnston said:


> Stationery cops using lasers are reported on Waze. Radar detectors can also pick up lasers when it was aimed at other cars in front of you.


Waze is still always going to be a false sense of security at the end of the day. Someone has to be the sacrificial lamb and be the first to pass the cop shooting laser to mark them.


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## Johnston

SoFlaModel3 said:


> Waze is still always going to be a false sense of security at the end of the day. Someone has to be the sacrificial lamb and be the first to pass the cop shooting laser to mark them.


There's no 100% way to avoid getting hit for speeding, but Waze plus radar detector help a ton.


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## FRC

Johnston said:


> There's no 100% way to avoid getting hit for speeding, but Waze plus radar detector help a ton.


One obvious way,,,Don't speed.


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## swanson21

Needsdecaf said:


> The cop has a radar gun in his personal vehicle? Or is the lifted pickup a police vehicle?
> 
> I'd be trying to fight this one. Were you really going 93? Doesn't look it from the video,. But then again, the dash cam doesn't show speed very well at all.


The pickup is a full on sheriff police vehicle with lights etc. He probably had radar constantly on. I'm sure I would have picked it up ahead of time if I had a radar detector.

I was speeding just for the pass and probably did hit 93.

Unfortunately, there's no traffic school exception for class A tickets (31+ mph over)


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## RonAz

I don't believe Oregon has repealed their "Basic Rule Law". Meant for empty freeways and rural desert, as well as people driving too fast when the conditions warrant a lower speed than the posted speed. The last moving violation conviction I got in 1981 was for "exceeding the federal fuel conservation act". I was going 60 downhill with an empty truck in a 55 zone at 4:00 pm. Judge would not excuse because it was not a speeding ticket, rather a federal violation ticket. That was over two million commercial driving miles ago.


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## SoFlaModel3

Johnston said:


> There's no 100% way to avoid getting hit for speeding, but Waze plus radar detector help a ton.


I don't agree with that. They make you complacent in my opinion.


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## JasonF

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I don't agree with that. They make you complacent in my opinion.


I agree with that, radar detectors aren't protection - they work best to keep you alert when you're already doing other things to protect yourself. Such as if you're keeping your speed below 10 mph over the limit, maybe you want to slow just a tiny bit more if the detector goes off, or maybe it makes you pay attention if you drifted a tiny bit more over the limit. Same thing with Waze. Nothing is going to save you if you're going 20 or 30 over when the radar detector or Waze is alerting except other drivers getting caught first and keeping the cop occupied.


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## Mad Hungarian

The last time I did this exact same thing was on a mountain pass on the Trans-Canada, on my way out to meet a certain Mr. Page for a certain foolish endeavour.

But my reward wasn’t just a ticket, Magneto won a week long stay at the impound yard in Golden B.C.
Listeners of the TOO podcast know the whole story 😀

P.S. I remain forever indebted to the amazing staff at Jamie Davis towing (of Highway Through Hell fame) who took both pity on me and exceptional care of Magneto


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## JasonF

I guess part of why I don’t do a lot of epic speeding here is none of the roads in central Florida are really straight lines (I know, ironic considering how flat the area is). I tried going driving at high speed on one of them for a minute or two, but it felt incredibly dangerous and uncomfortable even in a Tesla.

I’ve only ever gotten 3 tickets in Florida total:

One was 9 years go, something I wasn’t even aware was a violation. There was a line of cars waiting to turn left spilling into the travel lane, so I moved right and then back left when I passed them. I was ticketed for illegally passing on the right. The cop told me either I have to wait in line in the left lane, or once I move to the right I have to continue driving in that lane or it’s an illegal pass.

The last two were in the same stop, Florida Highway Patrol motorcycle cop on the lookout for window tint tickets. Since tint is not a primary violation, he also gave me one for going 6 mph over the limit. That was exactly the kind of thing people hate FHP for, because he lied completely about how I can have the tickets dismissed if I correct the tint. The court clerk told me the judge can only reduce the fine to court costs (which is about $20 less) if I go to a hearing. Taking half a day off work for that makes it end up costing more than the ticket.


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