# News from Jaguar's EV plans (I-Pace)



## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

Complementary info, courtesy of Bloomberg...
Jaguar Launches Direct Tesla Competitor $TSLA
http://www.seekingalpha.com/article/4023383


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## xxZULAxx (Apr 5, 2016)

Michael Russo said:


> Complementary info, courtesy of Bloomberg...
> Jaguar Launches Direct Tesla Competitor $TSLA
> http://www.seekingalpha.com/article/4023383


that actually isn't bad at all. wonder what final version will look like,


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

Interesting... Got invited to a presentation event of the Jaguar i-Pace prototype at a golf resort near Brussels... I wonder if I got this as longtime BMW driver Jaguar is trying to woo away from Muenchen, or as an EV enthusiast active on forums focused on T≡SLA?
Or... could it be both? 

Anyways, will check this out for y'all and make a report soon thereafter!!

Note this links to the invite in French.
Note the warning - since the prototype is assembled by hand, we can't sit in it ... 

http://campaign.jaguar.be/optiext/o...GsBzjyC36_ceLI+EIA+ToNW00pMQkQobsIBSDa5MXjwPc


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

Ok, as just promised (see post #3), here is my M3OC report from attending the special Jaguar promo event for the I-Pace today!










Just as a reminder, this is currently merely a _concept car_, though the Jaguar person in charge of the event claims she has seen the production version (which I kinda found strange since deliveries are not planned before end 2018... ).

As the above pic shows, this was a behind ropes event (though no NDA was signed and no one tried to block me from taking pics - interestingly, no one else was! ) yet I was able to walk around very closely and gauge the car appropriately.

It _looks bigger_ than it actually is; length confirmed to be 4.68 m (haha: 184.25'', sounds like very close to another BEV we care about, no?!). Part of that comes from the _ginormous 23'' wheels_ & tires the concept sat on!! (btw, production car shouldn't have those, probably max 21'') Of course, it clearly looks like a midsize SUV, therefore more of a Model Y alternative than vs. Model ≡. Yet, since the latter is announced at 184.8'', ours will _not_ be a small car; for most of us that is good news...










You won't be surprised if I tell you I asked about _cargo space_... response was, production car will have 510 litres (18 ft3 !!) for the trunk only... No further comment...










The I-Pace will be AWD, based on a 90 kWh battery. Range quoted at 500 kms (311 miles) on NEDC, value on EPA cycle is not known. The Jaguar lady (if I may call her that way, she looked more like a mature Minnie Mouse... ) 'hopes' it will be close to 400 kms (250 miles).

Since this is still a concept, I asked _how different _will the production car look... I was told '90 %' of WYSIWWG (what we see is what we'll get)... Seats won't be as won't be as novel looking, dashboard on the other should 'look similar'... Stay tuned would be my take on that...










Interior looks nice and roomy. Dashboard looks rather 'modern' (ok, we're not quite on Starship Enterprise... but fine...) and has two binnacles...

Other information I was able to glean:

- Reservations can already be made as of now via the Jaguar website; a dealer then contacts you and, if confirmed, you are asked to fork out €1,500. No big sweat there... As stated, deliveries are planned as of late next year
- Production likely in the U.K. yet this is far from confirmed
- Jaguar still need to determine their charging strategy; potentially would recommend CCS but not sure yet...

Now... final straw... Any idea about the price... Well yes...! (and I still have not recovered ) So... VAT included, it should be starting at ~€80k (that would equate to just under $60k, excluding tax and at current forex of $1.1 to the €...
Not quite the car for the masses... 

Anyways, I enjoyed the opportunity to see it up, close and personal... It is a decent looking car, with potential depending on final design, yet many questions remain and I would definitely not rate it as affordable... If they sell 50-100,000 per year, that would already be an enormous success...

Time will tell...


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## teslamcteslaface (Mar 14, 2017)

I was tempted , until I saw the sticker price!! - realistic X competitor based on what you've seen?


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## JBsC6 (Oct 17, 2016)

At 60 grand I'd buy one if it were available now.

Awd and zero to sixty in 4 flat works for me and that sheet metal as a cuv is stunning.

I believe this body style and shape will be huge in the marketplace.

Tesla would do well to leave that teardrop shape of the model x on the drawing board and follow the roofline of the Porsche Macan and jaguar I pace and F pace...

This is what consumers are craving for. Sporting soft road vehicles that have a lot of sport in their utility look.

I predict the small (184 inch length ) awd electric and even gas market will continue to explode and minimize sedans and even sports cars....both 2 and four door models of traditional market vehicles will diminish due to the sporty and good looking vehicles like the jaguar I pace...

I dig the tesla model 3 although I'm beginning to tire at all the slow leaks and just want the final colors and options to be announced already..

I love anticipation and have always ordered my previous vehicles but there is a huge difference between ordering from Detroit and having a seven week wait which has been fun to a one year treasure hunt just to get the colors, options and pricing...

I think I was good for the twelve months but now....in the 14 th month of not knowing....I'm becoming a little annoyed ...

June 2 nod is around the corner so I'm hopeful we finally will get colors and pricing of options...

That jaguar is sweet and at 60 grand large...it's tempting although 23 inch rims do tend to make almost anything look like a concept showcar...

In my opinion tesla model 3 would be well served with the launch cars 20 in rims ...

Without them? I'm thinking stock standard 18 rims and just ordering a set of 20 s from the aftermarket...

I like the showcar good looks of the release vehicle...

I'm hopeful for a blacked out window trim and a bright red color like we are seeing in your photos...

These are playful sporty runabouts ...not extra long and large luxury cars...

Jmo


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

teslamcteslaface said:


> I was tempted , until I saw the sticker price!! - realistic X competitor based on what you've seen?


Afraid not, that would be like buying a size 8 pair of shoes when you normally need an 11...  Remember, Model X is a roomy 5 seater (or a 7 seater with much less trunk space...)...

Plus the i-Pace is still a concept and we need to see what it will really turns out to be.
For me too, the price is the killer... Model Y will have it for lunch though...


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

Stepping up the I-Pace? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/879671101097472000


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## Badback (Apr 7, 2016)

Michael Russo said:


> Stepping up the I-Pace?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/879671101097472000


"unique door handles", WHAT?


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

_Warning_ (spoiler alert! ) - article actually mentions RC production, not really sellable cars. Tweeted back to Eric noting the somewhat misleading implication in the title.
Also, 90 minutes to charge to 80% via 50 kW 'fast' charging does not impress me so much for an €80k car... 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/883156987583836160


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## ModFather (Apr 3, 2016)

Michael Russo said:


> _Warning_ (spoiler alert! ) - article actually mentions RC production, not really sellable cars. Tweeted back to Eric noting the somewhat misleading implication in the title.
> Also, 90 minutes to charge to 80% via 50 kW 'fast' charging does not impress me so much for an €80k car...


I found some of the responses interesting!

_I got an email from Jaguar directly so i could sign up to see this in person, and they say 10-15% more on a comparatively spec'd F-Pace. 
A loaded out F-Pace which is barely as good as the I-pace prices for: $78,500 so 10% would be $86,350 and 15% would be $90,275…

i would say $85K-$90K would be a safe guess.

Electric cars are more than just their kWhs and hp. This car is only about five inches taller than a Model 3, and the same length. It will charge far slower, and not have any autopilot capabilities, and costs at least $25,000 more. Yes, dual motors and around 4 seconds 0-60…which the Model 3 will have soon enough probably for around $45,000. Around the same range for both. You basically have to REALLY want a hatchback to pick the Jaguar. 
The I-Pace is a lot smaller than the Model X and seats fewer passengers. It has slower acceleration, shorter range, takes twice as long to charge, has no autopilot, there will be no price pressure on the S or X from the I-Pace.
_
I find the I-Pace interesting looking, but why the massive grill? It looks like an ICE that wants to be an EV! The front end of the model 3 has really grown on me and it is a design feature that looks like "the future" and the model 3 will beat the UWCs off an I-Pace when it comes to Cd efficiency. The I-Pace IS NOT a model 3 competitor, I think it is a Macan, MBZ cuv competitor..................which is good!


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## Cloxxki (Jun 30, 2017)

Tall bonnet. Just for muscular looks, or might there be a huge frunk under there?
Some BEV's have a bonnet that's half full but can't take any luggage. Tesla's frunk are shrinking more and more. Let's see how Jag manage their bits.

EDIT: just took time to read some of the posts above. 510 litres, nice!

A pricey car, but it could become a popular one. It's a Jag, foremost, and looks awesome for travelling. I may well beat Model S for cargo capacity while being a bit shorter and more premium feeling.

I doubt they'd go to production with a car that charges slowly. Also, where others throw around big numbers to impress investors, Jag may be singing the competition a lullaby with the 90kWh. If they want i badly enough, they can fit more. But it seems unlikely they'll match Model S on consumption, standing so tall with a less organic shape.

By 2019, Model 3 will be everywhere on the road. Model S/X will be quite common also. A Jag BEV will impress more neighbors.


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## $ Trillion Musk (Nov 5, 2016)

With all those specs in mind, why would anyone not buy a Tesla in the EV arena? 

This is another one of those all image no substance products. I won't be giving up my Tesla reservation for the I-pace.


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## ModFather (Apr 3, 2016)

Cloxxki said:


> A Jag BEV will impress more neighbors.


Perhaps that is true, but the only one I want to impress is myself.


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

Jaguar is going to confuse everyone with the fact that the E-Pace, which is a great looking small SUV at a decent price, is not the electric model. I was looking at it on their web site the other day and it took me a few minutes to realize that.


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## dudeman (Jun 20, 2017)

Hmm.... Looks like Bolt is not selling!!! 
Gm was right, nobody wants (their) EVs.

GM extends shutdown at Chevy Bolt plant as inventories swell.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-generalmotors-production-idUSKBN1A227I


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## dudeman (Jun 20, 2017)

dudeman said:


> Hmm.... Looks like Bolt is not selling!!!
> Gm was right, nobody wants (their) EVs.
> 
> GM extends shutdown at Chevy Bolt plant as inventories swell.
> ...


On the other had, Tesla can't make it fast enough!! 
Sadly, looks like GM is truly in between bankruptcies.


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## $ Trillion Musk (Nov 5, 2016)

Hmmph! That's what they get for thinking so highly of their 'Tesla Killer'!


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

Good luck with that... 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/947959128789606401


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## AEDennis (Apr 10, 2016)

Michael Russo said:


> Good luck with that...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/947959128789606401


The vehicles themselves are very competitive and the interiors are more comfortable... pricepoint is higher than I expected. Furthermore, they need help on expanding infrastructure, and it seems that they're working on that.


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

AEDennis said:


> The vehicles themselves are very competitive and the interiors are more comfortable... pricepoint is higher than I expected. Furthermore, they need help on expanding infrastructure, and it seems that they're working on that.


EU pricing in line with that they told me last May, Dennis... Remains very exclusive for a car that is much smaller than an X and, to your point, lacking in charging infrastructure today. 
Yet they'll sell... until Model Y shows up...


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## AEDennis (Apr 10, 2016)

Michael Russo said:


> EU pricing in line with that they told me last May, Dennis... Remains very exclusive for a car that is much smaller than an X and, to your point, lacking in charging infrastructure today.
> Yet they'll sell... until Model Y shows up...


Model X is rather huge for a lot of European cities... so, good design for that... it's small for the US...

When I participated in a study a year ago, they didn't have pricing yet...


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

AEDennis said:


> Model X is rather huge for a lot of European cities... so, good design for that... it's small for the US...
> 
> When I participated in a study a year ago, they didn't have pricing yet...


My point is it would probably do very well between €65-70k, hence IMHO it's 20% too high...


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## AEDennis (Apr 10, 2016)

Michael Russo said:


> My point is it would probably do very well between €65-70k, hence IMHO it's 20% too high...


Agreed... I was pricing it at same price points as a base S or X


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## Marcumar (Jul 20, 2017)

https://electrek.co/2018/01/23/jaguar-all-electric-sedan/

Now my second favourite carmaker. Love the I-Pace design, but way to expensive for such a small car. And fit and finish of Jaguar's recent cars is still not up to par to the likes of Audi, BMW or Mercedes.


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

Sorry if the article is in French, but the gist of it is an announced all new 100% EV Jaguar XJ limousine next year, on the back of the upcoming iPace SUV. Moving on the high end luxury segment, Jaguar seems to be definitely ahead of German luxury carmakers... Still awaiting on charging though I imagine they'll go CCS.

http://www.automobile-propre.com/breves/renaissance-electrique-jaguar-xj/


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## JBsC6 (Oct 17, 2016)

Jaguars I pace is going to be a huge market success! Sexy vehicle and performs quite well.

Zero to sixty in four seconds and 300 mile range


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

Wow. Guess I did not remember that the iPace launch was soon: March 1!
Not that I can be swayed at this price (€80-85k if I remember correctly) and with the uncertainty on ease of charging & charging infrastructure, yet the 0-80% charging @ 100 kW did catch my attention... 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/958701743336054784


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## JBsC6 (Oct 17, 2016)

The jaguar showcar is stunning..while the spy photo looks less impressive.

I guess the March 1st planned release will tell us more about the actual vehicle offered for sale.


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

Folks, had not seen this a couple of weeks ago... Robert (Fully Charged) saw and sat in a moving i-Pace prototype around the recent LA Motor Show... and, no surprise (), he seemed to like it... 

Of course, I still feel skeptical about quoted prices which, although lower than those of Model X, still concern a significantly lower SUV... On the other hand, it's coming soon, quite a bit sooner than the future Y... Kudo to Jag for probably proposing the most intriguing EV besides T≡SLA soonest.


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

Don't let the title fool you... the full article reveals a quite different picture as to Jaguar's current intent when it comes to funding charging infrastructure worldwide a la T≡SLA... and that will be a limiting factor to their growth...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/968260064283906049


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

i-Pace EU prices:
- starts at €78.4k (need to check when available)
- fully loaded First Edition (for impatient - and wealthy... - folks... ): 102.6k

Wow.


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## Marcumar (Jul 20, 2017)

Way too close to Model X specs and price.

Model 3 has similar interior space and boot floor space, accelerates as fast even with RWD, has lower energy consumption and thereby longer range, has better and more fast charging, proven tech and autopilot. A maxed out Model 3 will still cost significant less, even with AWD included.









(via autoblog.com)

https://electrek.co/2018/01/06/tesl...0-60-mph-in-4-6-faster-than-tesla-advertises/

The interior looks nicer in the Jaguar. And I like the glass roof and the boot design better.

I guess Model Y will compare even better. But that's still some years away.


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

Marcumar said:


> Way too close to Model X specs and price.
> 
> Model 3 has similar interior space and boot floor space, accelerates as fast even with RWD, has lower energy consumption and thereby longer range, has better and more fast charging, proven tech and autopilot. A maxed out Model 3 will still cost significant less, even with AWD included. (...)
> 
> ...


Nice to see this comprehensive comparative table. 
Very skeptical T≡SLA will lose a lot of Model 3 reservations to the i-Pace... 
I get the feeling Jaguar are more trying to _get at Model X75D customers_ with this car. Big question mark will be speed of the charging infrastructure development. Time will tell...


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

For completion, if you've got an hour to shoot, you can access the full Jaguar i-Pace reveal on YouTube, via the M3OC Twitter feed.

Note (from about 15':00 thru 19':00 into the video) the 0-60 mph races both the X75D and the X100D which illustrates my point above... 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/969267462196805632


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## JBsC6 (Oct 17, 2016)

I dig the look of the jaguar I pace. If it were 50 to 60 grand to start with AWD I'd consider one and then chose options to add to it. At 76 grand to start that has been rumored I'll pass.

76 grand to 94 is a ridiculous amount of money to spend on any car in my opinion.


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## Marcumar (Jul 20, 2017)

Michael Russo said:


> Nice to see this comprehensive comparative table.
> Very skeptical T≡SLA will lose a lot of Model 3 reservations to the i-Pace...
> I get the feeling Jaguar are more trying to _get at Model X75D customers_ with this car. Big question mark will be speed of the charging infrastructure development. Time will tell...


But Model X is a large SUV/Van, I-Pace rather a compact crossover.

I really like the design of the Jaguar too, but value for money isn't good. And I'm more into efficient cars. The I-Pace has the same efficiency as the heavier/bigger Model X, even though it has a heat pump.


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

Marcumar said:


> Way too close to Model X specs and price.
> 
> Model 3 has similar interior space and boot floor space, accelerates as fast even with RWD, has lower energy consumption and thereby longer range, has better and more fast charging, proven tech and autopilot. A maxed out Model 3 will still cost significant less, even with AWD included.
> 
> ...


Nice breakdown. Note that Jaguar estimates that the EPA range of the I-Pace will be "220+mi", not 240. And you really should include charging in the chart, as well as price. And have a column for the Model X, since that's what Jaguar keeps (ridiculously) comparing I-Pace to (indeed, I think S and X belong on that chart a lot more than Bolt and Kona). Lastly, that Hyundai Kona range figure is clear BS, playing the "drivecycle game". It's a Bolt-sized car with a Bolt-sized level of streamlining with a Bolt-sized battery pack; it's going as far as a Bolt (~240 mi EPA, which means ~190 miles at ~75mph/120 kph).

Otherwise, great work


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

Marcumar said:


> But Model X is a large SUV/Van, I-Pace rather a compact crossover.
> 
> I really like the design of the Jaguar too, but value for money isn't good. And I'm more into efficient cars. The I-Pace has the same efficiency as the heavier/bigger Model X, even though it has a heat pump.


Worse efficiency, even. Model X 75D has an EPA range of 237 miles on a 75kWh (true capacity) pack. Jaguar estimates that the EPA range will be 220 miles, on its 90 kWh battery pack.

Yet the vehicle is closer in size to the Model 3 than it is to the Model X. Model 3 is even longer than I-Pace.


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## Marcumar (Jul 20, 2017)

KarenRei said:


> Nice breakdown. Note that Jaguar estimates that the EPA range of the I-Pace will be "220+mi", not 240. And you really should include charging in the chart, as well as price. And have a column for the Model X, since that's what Jaguar keeps (ridiculously) comparing I-Pace to (indeed, I think S and X belong on that chart a lot more than Bolt and Kona). Lastly, that Hyundai Kona range figure is clear BS, playing the "drivecycle game". It's a Bolt-sized car with a Bolt-sized level of streamlining with a Bolt-sized battery pack; it's going as far as a Bolt (~240 mi EPA, which means ~190 miles at ~75mph/120 kph).
> 
> Otherwise, great work


I don't deserve the praise and critique, autoblog.com created that chart.

https://www.autoblog.com/2018/03/01/jaguar-i-pace-vs-tesla-model-3-ev-comparison/

You can't really find any good ev comparisons on the internet. If I have have some time to spare, I will work on one myself. Maybe a google sheet, open to trusted editors.


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

i-Pace stuff, probably more than your fill... 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/969951233686540288

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/969958969186967552

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/969970649593778176


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## teslamcteslaface (Mar 14, 2017)

funny, I've my model 3 reservation for a year now. I'll likely sit in and drive an I-pace several months before I even see a model 3.


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

teslamcteslaface said:


> funny, I've my model 3 reservation for a year now. I'll likely sit in and drive an I-pace several months before I even see a model 3.


Question is, can we afford it...? For me, rhetorical...


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## teslamcteslaface (Mar 14, 2017)

Michael Russo said:


> Question is, can we afford it...? For me, rhetorical...


I definitely can't afford it so a test drive will be a safe experience


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

Michael Russo said:


> i-Pace EU prices:





Michael Russo said:


> - starts at €78.4k (need to check when available)
> - fully loaded First Edition (for impatient - and wealthy... - folks... ): 102.6k
> 
> Wow.



The above was France. Belgium with slightly higher VAT is almost 79k. Interestingly base has a lot of good equipment already, you could probably have a great car for about 5 grand more, which at this level is nothing. Also, local dealer confirmed you can order base now (not just First Edition) and get the car in July (as production started in Austria, believe @ Magna Steyr...).

And in the US:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/971021658394910720


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## JBsC6 (Oct 17, 2016)

I pace acelleration video versus tesla model x 100

Guess which wins?

https://www.carscoops.com/2018/03/jaguar-pits-pace-ev-tesla-model-x-0-60-0-race/


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## $ Trillion Musk (Nov 5, 2016)

JBsC6 said:


> I pace acelleration video versus tesla model x 100
> 
> Guess which wins?
> 
> https://www.carscoops.com/2018/03/jaguar-pits-pace-ev-tesla-model-x-0-60-0-race/


Here's some great commentary about the drag race at the 3 minute mark from Zac & Jessie. I like the interior, but that's about it.


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## JBsC6 (Oct 17, 2016)

I love the exterior of the jaguar and less than excited about the model x ...

What I found strange is the factory recorded times to seem to represented appropriately by factory numbers here...

Could the tesla not have been fully charged? Or we're both full charged and fresh


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## Thomas Mikl (Jun 26, 2017)

Since I live in Graz and I had a reservation I was invited to the iPace launch event. So here is my take on the iPace.

First of all:
This car is definitely a step in the right direction. Finally a car maker has made a truely electric car and not a converted ICE vehicle (yes I even consider the Leaf a somewhat converted vehicle and also the Bolt since they are on a modified ICE platform). The iPace is a truely electric plattform and they said they will follow it up with other cars on that platform.

Outside:
Now while I liked the looks and self presenting door handles, the back end needs to grow on you. I also was wondering why they were pondering about the revolutionary air intake and flow system and the car only has a drag coefficient of 0.29 which is way worse than any Tesla (0.24 or 0.23). Now while the difference sounds marginal, this is a logarithmic scale and the Jag will suffer considerably at higher speeds.
The outside build quality I would say is OK, on par with Teslas I have seen, but not as tight as Mercedes.

Storage:
The Frunk is just so they have one. It is a joke. I mean you could prolly fit 3-4 comic books, but surely no luggage at all.
The trunk is OK and they claim over 600L, but I somehow do not get the feeling that is it. My KIA seems to have a bigger trunk. Also there is no "well" like in a Tesla, just a small double floor. The seats can be folded for more storage, but they would not let me try or show it.

Interior:
Now here the car shines. The interior build quality is second to none. The leather is double stitched perfectly, with insignias, the dash has extremely tight tolerances and everything just looks gorgeuos. Now it still has loads of buttons, but it is not as bad as a current BMW or Audi, so it is a bit slimmed down. The screens are sharp and nice, however kinda small compared to the huge Tesla screens, but better than most other cars. Now the interface could be more snappy. They say it has huge processing power and the software still had "debug code", so we will see. Not the best experience yet.
So all in all very nice interior.

Test Drive:
Now I did not drive, they only had professional drivers take us for a quick spin on the test track. The acceleration is nice and surely Teslaesque, but not even close to a P model. Now the car we drove had air suspension, but I have to say I was not that impressed. But maybe they put it in some kind of sport mode to impress the press 
Also when accelerating fast the car did feel pushed and not like AWD, which was weird since it has dual motors.
The seats are extremely comfy. These are as comfy as the Porsche seats in a top line Cayenne. Yes they are leather.
There are no autonomous features in the car and never will be. It has sensors for lane assist and cruise control with distance warning, but thats it.

True cost (EU):
Now the first edition they are making now is 109,000 Euros. It is loaded however nearly maxed out. But way more than the starting price. It will be the only model to get for at least 6-12 months.
Now I was able to play with the configurator and prolly it is live now that I am posting this.
No matter what I was doing I was at least at around 90,000 Euros for the features you really want. So expect a decent model to be 20,000 more than the base price.
It is funny how a lot of small things are missing in the base model. It does come with Nav system etc. but there is no: glass roof, heated seats, electric trunk, car play,... which is just weird money making. So the true cost I would say is around 5-10% more than a Model S (with autopilot that the Jag does not have).

The battery:
Now they claim that the battery is made to hold up 10 years. Of course nobody can verify this. The battery has active cooling, but it is a pouch battery and hence I would call it inferior to what Tesla is offering. As a physicist I just do not trust the design and many things they told me sounded like marketing BS to me.
Now it can 100kW Fast Charge, but even in Austria with lots of charge points, 50kW is the standard, so charging that 90kW battery can take some time.

Conclusion (for me, subjective):
I canceled the order and kept my Model 3 reservation.
I think the car is a huge step in the right direction and will find its adopters, simply by being so nice inside.
For me the killing points are: 0.29cw is just too much today, pouch battery and no Supercharger infrastructure added with overpricing for a small to mid SUV (I expect Model Y to be bigger and cheaper) and some tech shortcommings (pouch battery, no autopilot).


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

Thanks for the details. I was interested in the car until I saw the price. My wife wants an X badly, but the Y is likely her next car if the timing is right!


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

Thomas Mikl said:


> Since I live in Graz and I had a reservation I was invited to the iPace launch event. So here is my take on the iPace.
> 
> First of all:
> This car is definitely a step in the right direction. Finally a car maker has made a truely electric car and not a converted ICE vehicle (yes I even consider the Leaf a somewhat converted vehicle and also the Bolt since they are on a modified ICE platform). The iPace is a truely electric plattform and they said they will follow it up with other cars on that platform.
> ...


This one post is more informative than literally every article I've seen published on the iPace so far combined, in so many regards. Thanks!


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## Love (Sep 13, 2017)

Great write up @Thomas Mikl! Thank you for taking the time and for sharing with us! It's awesome to see some other EVs come to the market. Looking forward to seeing one in person someday!


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Thomas Mikl said:


> (yes I even consider the Leaf a somewhat converted vehicle and also the Bolt since they are on a modified ICE platform).


This is not true for either vehicle. They are both built on dedicated EV platforms. I really don't understand how this incorrect information keeps getting passed around.

One possible explanation is that both cars are built on the same *assembly line* as other ICE vehicles. The chassis are different. There are no shared components. But they don't have dedicated assembly lines due to the small volumes being made.

There's one other possible source of confusion with regards to the Leaf:


garsh said:


> That rumor went around for a while, but it's not true. The first Leaf _prototype_ was based on a Versa, but the production cars do not share a platform with any other vehicle.


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## Thomas Mikl (Jun 26, 2017)

garsh said:


> This is not true for either vehicle. They are both built on dedicated EV platforms. I really don't understand how this incorrect information keeps getting passed around.
> 
> One possible explanation is that both cars are built on the same *assembly line* as other ICE vehicles. The chassis are different. There are no shared components. But they don't have dedicated assembly lines due to the small volumes being made.
> 
> There's one other possible source of confusion with regards to the Leaf:


Let me clarify (and I know a lot of Nissan people). Yes what in the car industry is called base platform (basically the metal frame between the wheels) is made specifically for the EV drive train of the Leaf. So in this regard you are right.
However the platform in regards to how it are components sourced etc. is 70-80% shared with the Nissan Juke (upcoming model not the current Juke) to cut costs. Which is valid. What things are those: steering column, assist systems, suspension systems, instrument cluster components, touchscreen, etc. up to how the front of the car is designed due to suspension and electric motor mounting options.
So Nissan is restricting themselves to make an even bigger leap, but possibly due to cost factors.
So this was not meant to bash them, the new Leaf seems to be a good car (did not test one yet), same as the IONIQ etc. but to me a true EV is designed with pure EV in mind. Now the Leaf is more in that direction than the e-Golf, Inoniq or Kona, but it still is missing some details to make it to me a fully qualified pure EV.
To me the only EVs that are "pure" designed so far are the Teslas, the iPace and the BMW i3 (even though it sucks and I rather have a Leaf).


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Thomas Mikl said:


> However the platform in regards to how it are components sourced etc. is 70-80% shared with the Nissan Juke (upcoming model not the current Juke) to cut costs. Which is valid. What things are those: steering column, assist systems, suspension systems, instrument cluster components, touchscreen, etc. up to how the front of the car is designed due to suspension and electric motor mounting options.


Ah, I see. I have noticed that various parts are shared with the Juke (such as TPMS sensors). This kind of sharing allows a company to obtain better supplier pricing due to economies of scale - it usually doesn't result in the sort of "compromise" as you get when you try to shoe-horn an electric drivetrain into a chassis designed for a combustion drivetrain. But I do have to admit, both the Bolt and Leaf were designed as front-wheel drive vehicles because it allows them to use the same assembly line as they do for other FWD cars without major changes being required. RWD is a better choice for electric cars, due to the even weight distribution.

Sorry for coming down hard. I see this "shared chassis" information pop up now and then, and I feel an uncontrollable urge to correct it.


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## Thomas Mikl (Jun 26, 2017)

I am totally with you buddy.
What I love about the Model 3 owners club is, that for the most part we refrain from trolling, but discuss in an adult fashion and see different points of view without a trolling war breaking loose hehe.
And I have been wrong several times... only human not yet replaced by AI lol.


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## Love (Sep 13, 2017)

Thomas Mikl said:


> I am totally with you buddy.
> What I love about the Model 3 owners club is, that for the most part we refrain from trolling, but discuss in an adult fashion and see different points of view without a trolling war breaking loose hehe.
> And I have been wrong several times... only human not yet replaced by AI lol.


My "agree" is to your reply about discussion on this forum, not to the part about you being wrong several times!


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## Thomas Mikl (Jun 26, 2017)

I have been asked about home charging several times and I asked my contact in the factory for this answer:
Yes you can connect the iPace (all markets) to a 7kW single phase outlet, but the internal charger will only charge with 4.2kW.
3 Phase charging AC with up to 22kW or more (like a Tesla) is not available, so charing the Jaguar overnight will almost ceratinly take more than 13 hours if it is 15% or lower.

DC charging does support the new CCS2 protocols for the upcoming charging networks, so you can plug in into the 350kW charger and the car will tell the charger it only supports 100kW. You can most of the time expect to charge between 82 and 92kW.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Thomas Mikl said:


> Yes you can connect the iPace (all markets) to a 7kW single phase outlet, but the internal charger will only charge with 4.2kW.


That can't be right. Even a Nissan Leaf will charge at 6.6kW.

https://www.jaguarusa.com/all-models/i-pace/electric-vehicles/index.html

_For optimum charging at home, you can purchase and install a Jaguar approved home charger. *The I‑PACE is equipped with a 7 kW single-phase AC on-board charger*, which can fully recharge the vehicle overnight when using a Jaguar approved home charger. Alternatively the Jaguar I-PACE can be plugged in directly to a domestic socket. While charging directly via a domestic socket is slower than with a home charger, it should be sufficient to cover the average daily commute of 30 miles if the vehicle is charged overnight._​


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

Thomas Mikl said:


> I have been asked about home charging several times and I asked my contact in the factory for this answer:
> Yes you can connect the iPace (all markets) to a 7kW single phase outlet, but the internal charger will only charge with 4.2kW.


Is that a joke? A car that's 6 figures when optioned only has a ~20A onboard charger?

_Why......?_


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## Thomas Mikl (Jun 26, 2017)

garsh said:


> That can't be right. Even a Nissan Leaf will charge at 6.6kW.
> 
> https://www.jaguarusa.com/all-models/i-pace/electric-vehicles/index.html
> 
> _For optimum charging at home, you can purchase and install a Jaguar approved home charger. *The I‑PACE is equipped with a 7 kW single-phase AC on-board charger*, which can fully recharge the vehicle overnight when using a Jaguar approved home charger. Alternatively the Jaguar I-PACE can be plugged in directly to a domestic socket. While charging directly via a domestic socket is slower than with a home charger, it should be sufficient to cover the average daily commute of 30 miles if the vehicle is charged overnight._​





KarenRei said:


> Is that a joke? A car that's 6 figures when optioned only has a ~20A onboard charger?
> 
> _Why......?_


OK I now got more Info, apparently the prototype we had can only do 4.2kW, but the production models beginning in May can do 7kW.
However as Karen says, even 7kW is pretty pathetic for a car that decently outfitted costs 90k or more...

Oh and apparently they cannot upgrade this in any way, so as with most automakers newer hardware can only be implemented at a tech refresh... earliest 3 years.


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

R.I.P. ...


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Thomas Mikl said:


> However as Karen says, even 7kW is pretty pathetic for a car that decently outfitted costs 90k or more...


Playing Devil's advocate, as I like to do...

Given that the car is capable of DC fast charging at 50-100 kW, 7kW is probably fine for overnight charging at home. It's not the end of the world. It just doesn't provide as many options as a Tesla Model S or X (or even a 3).


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

garsh said:


> Playing Devil's advocate, as I like to do...
> 
> Given that the car is capable of DC fast charging at 50-100 kW, 7kW is probably fine for overnight charging at home. It's not the end of the world. It just doesn't provide as many options as a Tesla Model S or X (or even a 3).


It's more of an issue of how much you charge at a "destination charger" during a trip than how much you charge at home. Level 2 chargers vastly outnumber DC chargers.


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## Thomas Mikl (Jun 26, 2017)

Totally agree with Karen.
When I roadtrip, be it business or leisure, I like to sometimes take a break for lunch for up to an hour after a long drive in a mall etc. Now many malls in Europe have AC destination chargers or some other kind of Type 2 and most are 14 or 22kW. That will give you a decent boost and might even let you skip a fastcharger on the next leg you take.
I do not see the problem in overnight, when I am only commuting 7kW would be fine and I prolly just use the UMC at home anyways.


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## Marcumar (Jul 20, 2017)

Bjørn's comparison at the end is really helpful. Makes my point, that the value for money is a lot better for the Model 3.


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

He doesn't bother to mention that a lot of basic features, like heated front seats and a lot of basic infotainment functionality, is an added extra in the I-Pace. Björn is trying out a 109k EUR variant.. And you can only get 109k EUR variants for the next 6-12 months.


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

KarenRei said:


> (...)And you can only get 109k EUR variants for the next 6-12 months.


As stated earlier, the Jag rep in my ex country (Belgium) - to the extent he knew what he was talking about - told me in March that base model would be available within 3-6 months...


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## JBsC6 (Oct 17, 2016)

Saw several jaguar ipace vehicles today. They had a rear badge that stated I believe 400EV.

Pretty vehicle although it's not inexpensive.


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## RICK M (Apr 23, 2016)

Marcumar said:


> Bjørn's comparison at the end is really helpful. Makes my point, that the value for money is a lot better for the Model 3.


You are joking I hope....


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## teslamcteslaface (Mar 14, 2017)

teslamcteslaface said:


> I definitely can't afford it so a test drive will be a safe experience


 *First Edition €121k
Cheapest €93K

Definitely a safe test drive, unless I win the lottery.*


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

ArsTechnica:
*Forget about that Tesla-the Jaguar I-Pace is the most compelling EV yet*

This seems like a pretty good review, despite the somewhat-clickbaity title. They mention Tesla's lead in supercharging infrastructure, and how the new Jag is more likely to compete with other luxury SUVs moreso than Teslas.

They also mention that the interior is much more luxurious. Tesla needs a big hefty "push" in that area, so I'm glad to see another company stepping up to the plate. The interiors of the Leaf and Bolt certainly weren't going to make Tesla worry.


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

Things not mentioned:

1) The (expensive) first edition is the only edition that's going to be available for quite a while

2) The base model is even more barebones than a base-model Model 3. They pushed a lot of stuff into options, in order to lower the MSRP.

3) They hardly got into charging. Not only is it much more limited on DC charge speeds, and unable to use the Supercharging network, but it also has a poor AC charger, and is very inefficient (375 Wh/mi), meaning more kWh you need to charge per mile.

4) The battery pack is pouch cells. And has no thick battery shield like Teslas do, either, just 7mm of alumium.

5) Despite them marketing it as a SUV, it's no larger than a Model S. It's actually shorter than a Model 3 in terms of length.

I just don't see it competing. That said, I don't think they actually intend to sell enough to pose any sort of threat to Tesla, they just want to look like they're competing; I doubt their margins are very good (if they're even positive at all). And _some_ people certainly will buy them, I have no doubts about that.


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## Quicksilver (Dec 29, 2016)

garsh said:


> ArsTechnica:
> *Forget about that Tesla-the Jaguar I-Pace is the most compelling EV yet*
> 
> This seems like a pretty good review, despite the somewhat-clickbaity title. They mention Tesla's lead in supercharging infrastructure, and how the new Jag is more likely to compete with other luxury SUVs moreso than Teslas.
> ...


Whatever happened to the interior guy Tesla brought on-board from Volvo? Does he still work at Tesla? I would think their next iteration of interiors for S and X will feature some of this guy's input. The recent lighter wood trim, etc... are just minor tweaks in my opinion and I think we will possibly see a big jump in interior design next. 
I wonder...


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

KarenRei said:


> He doesn't bother to mention that a lot of basic features, like heated front seats and a lot of basic infotainment functionality, is an added extra in the I-Pace. Björn is trying out a 109k EUR variant.. And you can only get 109k EUR variants for the next 6-12 months.


Jaguar's parent is a public company. Somehow the Tesla shorts seem to really have high hopes for the iPace. In fact, they hold the iPace on a pedestal saying Jaguar knows how to make an electric car better than Tesla! Personally, I love electric cars, I have no position in TSLA, and I hope the iPace is a smashing success. But all the clues I've been seeing have me wondering what kind of mirage the shorts are looking at.

So, I tried to see if I could test drive or sit in one. Oooops, none at the Jaguar dealership. That's OK, it's new, I couldn't test drive the Model 3 either. So let's see if I could buy one. First I went to the Jag site and tried to configure one. Very confusing experience as it's not set up to inform the consumer about the different trims/option/prices, but to confuse. Apparently, there is only one level of performance and range available. And I'm getting conflicting numbers on what the range is. Somewhere between 240-300 miles. But other tidbits of info I get lead to think I might be lucky to be able to drive it an honest 240 highway miles, even at relatively tame speeds and conditions (the same conditions I can get 300 miles out of my Model 3). I call up the (semi)-local Jaguar dealership and spoke to a salesman (who didn't seem to know the first thing about the iPace). I told him I was interested in buying one. That got his attention. He thought they only had an initial allotment of only 20 iPace and that they were all spoken for. I asked him to call me back with a more definitive answer on whether he could get one for me or not (and if so, when). He called me back in 5 minutes and reminded me what I don't like about the traditional car buying experience. He said he had spoken with his sales manager, and the original allotment is already sold out but that, for me, he thought he could get one more. But only the "SE" Model would be available. I said great! When? He hemmed and hawed, mentioned maybe September and I told him to call me back when he had a better idea. Three hours later, he had done some legwork, called Jaguar (USA?) and said there was no firm date but maybe by October, then as his voice trailed off he said "maybe as long as next year". So I told him to call me back when he has a more firm date.

This is a car that has been in production for months, but they haven't delivered the first one (wasn't it supposed to be available last spring?). Doesn't that trouble the Tesla shorts who made such a big deal that the Model 3 was late? The range estimates keep changing, and the on-board charger maxes out at 7.4 kW! That means it takes 12 hours for a full charge at home, no matter how many amps you install? All the units coming off the production line will be crushed in a crusher (and that doesn't bother the Tesla shorts who claim 40% waste on early Model 3 production?). If I'm not mistaken, the iPace has 100% waste on all pre-production units and they have been in pre-production since (at least) November 2017! Oh, and only the more expensive trims will be available for perhaps up to the first year (doesn't that trouble the TSLA shorts that it was advertised at $69,000?).

I have a bad feeling about the iPace, sure Jaguar knows how to make cars but something is holding the thing in pre-production. Could it be the electrics? I think so.


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

Here's a link to a story confirming the iPace has been rolling off the production line but they will be crushing every one of them. This is an article from Nov. 3, 2017:

https://dailykanban.com/2017/11/no-production-hell-jaguars-pace-peaceful-insider-says/


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Good legwork, @PNWmisty.

I find that I'm so laser-focused on Tesla that I haven't taken the time to see how the other car manufacturers are doing.


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## Brokedoc (May 28, 2017)

This has not been in the news really today. If it was Tesla, the shorts would be blasting it from every major media outlet.

Jaguar is delaying delivery of the I-Pace by 3-4 months meaning that buyers that already put in their config orders will not get their cars in 2018. They appear to be doing a similar thing as Tesla and producing the higher margin vehicles first. I didn't find any articles about Jaguar being deceptive to customers by not making the promised cheaper versions from day 1....

Most interesting to me was learning that Jaguar as a company only sold about 150,000 vehicles globally in 2017-2018 production year. That means that Tesla will produce more cars than Jaguar based on 100k annual production of S/X and already making 50k Model 3s so far this year. WOW!!!!

Jaguar didn't break 100,000 global vehicle sales until the 2016-2017 production year. In fact, their production capacity is so limited that the article points out that all of the I-Pace production is outsourced to a different company.

https://electrek.co/2018/07/26/jaguar-i-pace-delay/


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

Brokedoc said:


> Most interesting to me was learning that Jaguar as a company only sold about 150,000 vehicles globally in 2017-2018 production year. That means that Tesla will produce more cars than Jaguar based on 100k annual production of S/X and already making 50k Model 3s so far this year. WOW!!!!


Exactly! How can the iPace be a "Tesla killer" when they only plan to make ~20,000 in the first full year of production? And I strongly suspect the number may be closer to 10,000. The delay in production seems pretty telling, especially considering they were already rolling off the (pre)-production line back in November 2017. This means the cars the journalists were driving were specially made to create fanfare but perhaps not representative of the car's actual performance.

I wish the Jaguar was another car that showed the world the promise of EV's in the best possible light but I think it more likely to be a total disaster for the company in terms of profit and warranty/long-term ownership costs/reputation of Jaguar. The "pouch cells" may be cost-effective to manufacture but they don't inspire confidence with respect to longevity and durability.


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## Tom Bodera (Aug 10, 2016)

Saw the Ipace with MFR(Manufacturer Ontario plates) testing on HWY 10 travelling North through Caledon at 6:00pm on Tuesday.






Screen Grabs. Jaguar I-Pace HSE


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

Wow... Bjørn Nyland is livestreaming a drive in the I-Pace right now and... while the roads are admittedly wet, he's getting 275 Wh/km at 88 kph

Rest of the review so far hasn't exactly been glowing... We've repeatedly watched him try to figure out the unresponsive, poorly designed interface and getting frustrated at it, and he's even surprised by it being more cramped than he expected. Autosteer drives like it's drunk. Interior quality is nice, and performance "Tesla-esque", but... it's otherwise not been great, to put it mildly.

LOL, he just put on the turn signals; they sound like something from a Yaris 

Latest: _"How can this car be so thirsty?!? Is it mining bitcoins or something???"_


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## Thomas Mikl (Jun 26, 2017)

Its easy understandable: The tested cw is 0.29, however that is the "NCAP test" which means the car had no mirrors and all edges and panel gaps were sealed with tape. The real world cw is prolly around 0.33 to 0.34 which is really bad.
And since the cw squared is in the aerodynamic pressure formula, this means compared to the real world 0.23 to 0.24 of Tesla cars this is a HUGE difference, especially at highway speeds.
Combine this with relatively inefficient systems, since every system (assists, nav, stereo, instrument cluster) has its own CPU, since they are all OEM parts and not Jaguar in house developments, this leads to terrible efficiency.

Wait until he is testing the charging. We did a test and it only goes to 80kW for the 30% to 60% range and then tapers down again. So the median charge rate is below 50kW.

Makes me sad really, not that I wished for another car, just I had hoped that good competition will invigorate the market. But the i-Pace was clearly designed by people who had no idea how to create a real electric car.


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

You know, I think the Tesla shorts assume anyone who supports Tesla fears competition. But like you, I welcome it. The EV market has too much demand and not enough supply. I *want* to see other companies putting out interesting EVs, in volume. Heck, even Tesla does - by locking S+X production at a fixed 100k/year, there's an implicit assumption that *someone* is going to be eating up the market growth in that segment - since EV demand keeps rising. Model 3 P will take some , but...

Somehow I'm not expecting better from Audi. But maybe Porsche. They're trying something new (super-high power charging - risky from a longevity standpoint, but with obvious benefits ), they seem to understand the importance of streamlining, and they're not all obsessed with Tesla - rather, on converting gasoline customers.

Time will tell. But Jaguar really missed the mark here


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## Thomas Mikl (Jun 26, 2017)

I am totally with you.
Even looking at the e-tron from Audi, you can see they put in the grill and stuff to make it look like an Audi which will screw over the cw again. This happens when marketing departments influence design I think, and they cannot think outside of their comfort zone, since it worked for ICE cars for 100 years we should not stop doing it... which is bogus.

I am really curious about the Porsche too, since they are more into designing sports cars I hope they get aerodynamics right.
Porsche also bought into a company making cell packs from 18650s, so they might get the battery right and not use pouches.
It is physically so obvious that you can more easy get heat away from round cells than from pouches, no matter the cooling method (apart that round cells make chemically more sense).


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

Read all about it:
https://www.just-auto.com/news/magna-starts-jaguar-i-pace-production-in-graz_id181514.aspx

Oh, wait, that was back on March 5th, 6 months ago. Where are they all going? I would expect to see them flooding the streets. That iPace sure is an elusive creature, must have a little Jaguar in its DNA.

It looks like Tesla is making more Model 3's every day than there are iPace in the world after 6 months of regular production. Remember, it went into pre-production last Sept. or October. This is no way to kill Tesla! They are Making Musk's production ramp-up look positively genius!


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## Quicksilver (Dec 29, 2016)

Although I like the fact that some of the legacy manufacturers are beginning to show production versions of their EVs (the more EVs on the market the better), they are in no way competitive with what Tesla offers. These so call "Tesla Killers" are way behind the tech curve (battery, efficiency, etc...not just bells and whistles). Mercedes EQC, Audi E-Tron, Jaguar i-Pace...all of these new offerings are ok...nothing revolutionary or compelling. So much for the media and shorts thinking that once the legacy manufacturers enter the EV market, Tesla would be in trouble. I think these legacy manufacturers EVs are half-hearted attempts. They either do not really want to build EVs or they don't know how to build compelling and competitive EVs. As for Porsche's Taycan, we'll have to wait and see what volume production will be like. Take a look at Ben Sullins recent video on "Tesla Killers." He makes some good points.


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## IPv6Freely (Aug 8, 2017)

I just don't get the obsession with the entire concept of the "<insert product here> killer". People buy different products for different reasons. Why does one product have to be "killed" for another to be successful?

Personally, I'm looking forward to the all-electric version of the XC40. It will happily reside in my garage next to my Model 3 after we trade in our existing XC90 and i3. I don't need my Model 3 to be "killed" to enjoy something else too.


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## Love (Sep 13, 2017)

iPace is what I do when I’m on the phone. 

...I’ve got more like this.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

I’m still trying to figure out why the I-PACE is electric but the E-PACE is not.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Jag had the iPace at the NDEV event in Dallas almost 2 weeks back. I didn't look at it close, it looks like a typical small SUV these days, but I didn't get a close up of it, it was too much rain that day. It will sell a few to the loyals, but all depends on range and price and availability. A little competition is never bad, Tesla has some improving to do, they need to get it together and do it now.


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## BluestarE3 (Oct 12, 2017)

GDN said:


> Jag had the iPace at the NDEV event in Dallas almost 2 weeks back. I didn't look at it close, it looks like a typical small SUV these days, but I didn't get a close up of it, it was too much rain that day. It will sell a few to the loyals, but all depends on range and price and availability. A little competition is never bad, Tesla has some improving to do, they need to get it together and do it now.


Similarly, Jaguar had an orange I-Pace prototype at the Bon Air Center in Greenbrae, CA for NDEV last Saturday. It was locked up, so couldn't sit inside, but did get to walk around and peek inside. I agree it looks like a typical SUV, so in a sense that's a positive because it doesn't scream "weirdmobile".


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## John (Apr 16, 2016)

Today I attended a Jaguar event in San Mateo, California. They had all of their car models on display (and to drive), but the star of the show was their all-electric iPace.

Very well done event, with lots of staff and rather elaborate staging. They even provided food from a rather hip little San Francisco restaurant. Very smartly planned and executed event.

Here's the entrance hall where you sign in on an iPad and get an RFID bracelet.










The event flowed from room to room, where you could view and sit in cars, with plenty of specialists around to answer questions.










They let people move through the rooms in batches, and had plenty of cars on display, including four or five iPaces, so it was easy to get a chance to sit in and play with the cars.

They wouldn't let me sit in their Formula E race car though, dammit.

Here is a shot of the interior of the iPace HSE (top end model, they were all top end models):










Each of the three flat panel displays can be configured to some extent. in the setup here, I've dedicated the binnacle display to be completely navigation, the top center to be audio, and the bottom center to be climate (not shown, see below).

If you look closely, you can see the heads up display showing a speed limit sign and a "0 mph" for current speed.

As I mentioned, all of the cars present were the fully loaded variety.

*Driving Impressions*

There were two primary driving opportunities. The first was a chance to drive iPace around the streets of San Mateo. That was nice, even though there was traffic and there was only really one chance to floor it, which I did. It's a heavy (pretty much 5000 pound) vehicle with a higher center of gravity due to being a fairly tall hatchback, so it does sway more than I am used to. But there's enough power that you'd say, "Yep, that's got plenty of power." It has AWD (all models do) and lists a 0-60 of 4.5 secs, pretty much the same on paper as a Model 3D. Couldn't really race it around enough to get a feel for how much more powerful it was than my Model 3 LR, but it's certainly in the realm of Plenty. You don't feel like you're in a rocket, you feel like you are in an oddly quiet and very powerful SUV.

The second driving event was something Tesla should really think about doing sometime. Jaguar set up two tight slalom courses with digital pylons and an automatic timing system. The pylons can light up (look for them in the video below), and the system tells you which pylons to attack next, and also which pylons will be coming up after that (green = next pylons, blue = pylons after that). So once the race starts, you race through the first set of green pylons, hopefully cleverly enough to be going the right way to get to the blue set as fast as possible. And that repeats for roughly a minute. Extra points for speed and centering between pylons. Meek drivers coast around, adventurous ones squeal around the course pretty much the whole time.






It really was a blast, and it was easy to really get into it. I did okay for myself, coming in #2 so far, and beating all but one of the 5 or so Jaguar driving coaches who had all of the top spots when I got there. My drive along coach was... um... well, he seemed a little tense. But it all turned out fine, didn't it, Bob? Bob?

("No digital cones were harmed in the making of this film. Non-professional driver, closed course.")

*Interior Impressions*

Okay, probably the biggest surprise of the day was the interior. I guess I expected a sumptuous interior that reeked of Rainforest Burlwood and Fine Corinthian Leather. I expected to feel like I was getting back into a Corolla when I got back out to my Model 3. But that's not really what the iPace is like. Yes, it's got leather. But the seat was actually harder than Model 3. The bolsters were nice and pronounced, but they were narrower and harder than Model 3 (March 2018, VIN 9371). No feeling of sinking into luxury. The ambiance was kind of "Nice Acura with luxury package." Quality construction, but NOT an item of lust. I think I had the wrong expectations.

In fact, most of the physical buttons were pretty standard plastic trad automaker fare. Not sure if I expected knurled aluminum or something... well, actually I was expecting that. And there were some little ones. But there was nothing to make a Mercedes or BMW or Porsche driver jealous.

The stock picture here doesn't do this justice, because they've muted the colors. See my own picture above for that.










The main impression you get in the interior is "many digital screens, and lots of buttons, and no shortage of chrome trim."

As I mentioned, you can configure them to a large degree. But with that comes a price: there are a bewildering array of scattered menu options, in many menus. There are card metaphors (swipe to the side), and there are nested item metaphors. In addition, you need to learn which screen to go to, because some features (e.g. turning on and off the HUD) are done in the binnnacle screen with scroll and push buttons on the steering wheel, and others are done on the top center touchscreen. So there's touching, swiping, button clicking, and roller scrolling.

None of the three very experienced Jaguar specialists could find everything first try. Even they had to hunt around a bit, and go, "Oh, sorry, that's right-go to the steering wheel and hit that menu button, then the right button, keep going, more, okay, see HUD? Click it, then use the scroller to go down, then click that... oops it moved, hit Back, then scroll down more slowly... good, press there. Okay, now click to deselect Show HUD. Perfect!"

The screens certainly show lots of information, even if they are a bit low-res. For instance, plenty of people will enjoy having the maps behind the steering wheel, and the speed and speed limit and lane/turn directions displayed on the windshield HUD. Also, when you get a call, that pops up on the HUD as well.

In general, the UI is a little laggy. You wait for it to launch when you turn the car on, and sometimes navigation between screens takes a second or two.

I did try a voice command. Jaguar does a cool thing-if you find it in the UI-where they show a dictionary of all of the voice commands, which seem pretty extensive. But (why does everyone always have such a big but?) they do that old school thing of waiting 5 seconds, then asking if you're finished, ("Now say, 'I'm finished' if you're done."), then they slowly execute the command. Soooo painful as to be unusable, like in our 2009 Toyota. But it does work.

Like other car voice systems other than Tesla's (which in Model 3 is faster than typing), users won't bother using it, unless they get desperate for an option they can't find in the menus. Good last resort.

I was really interested in the HUD-remember the great Model 3 HUD anticipation of 2017?-but during my city test drive I began to want it turned off, or at least moved lower. It's kind of distracting to have stuff floating around in the center of your view like it's on the end of a stick above your hood about 10 feet out. Evidently you can move it, but especially during turns it's just in the way and made me a little sea-sick as it floated around.

So during the slalom course, the above set of menu instructions is literally the Coach's directions in helping me turn if off before we started. Whew! So glad that's out of the way!

I was also very interested in driver's assistance features, but no one there was very familiar with them, and I couldn't get them to do anything (despite some furtive button pushing) on my short test drive.

*Bottom Line*

The interior looks like that neighbor who tries to outdo everyone else and see how many strings of Christmas lights they can put on their house. It is a very busy light-up arcade. I can't overstate how busy it is, and how confusing it can be to do some things.

I think after a while you'd learn how do many of those things, but probably most owners won't know how to do half of what is possible. I sympathized with the demonstrators, saying, "Is it your nightmare to have someone ask a question and not remember how to do it?" And to a person, they put on a 1000 yard stare, and said something like, "Oh, man, you don't even know."

It drives well. It sways more than I'm used to, but it's very good for a taller hatchback. Good traction, very good turning radius (noticeably better turning radius than Model 3).

*Tesla Killer?*

My overall impression is that this car may suffer from "in-betweener syndrome." It looks inside and out like a traditional car-albeit with lots of gadgetry-but it costs a pretty spendy $69-84K. It's very peppy. It's an all-electric, otherwise very conventional car. Not flashy, not a Weirdmobile (looking at you, BMW). Not sumptuous. Solid. Practical.

My guess is that it will sell well for a Jaguar, but in the US that's not saying much. I think Jaguar sells about 4000 to 5000 of its sporty and similarly-priced F-types a year in the US. They don't plan to stock iPace at dealerships, but instead ship them to order as Tesla does. Our local dealership is installing chargers (I forget how many, a couple?) as we speak.

First units will be sold at my local California dealership October 15. Word is the wait for new orders is a few months.

Strong respectable entry by Jaguar. Will do "fine."

Tesla killer?

No. Will sell like a $75K Jaguar.

*One Final Observation*

Tesla has no monopoly on young salespeople who don't have 100% accurate info.

One spokesperson: "It's faster than the Tesla!"
Me (nicely, promise): "Uh, well... it's faster than SOME Teslas."
Spokesperson: "Really? Oh, well, but it's less expensive than a Tesla!"
Me: "Well... it's less expensive than SOME Teslas."


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

I would have had great pleasure in asking "How much will the battery pack degrade in 200,000 miles?"

Thanks for the detailed and informative article!


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

Great write up!


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## tipton (May 21, 2018)

great write up. Tesla Bjorn has a ton of videos on the Ipace on his youtbe channel now and I've watched nearly all of them. When he compared it to his model X pretty much the only two things he liked more were the seats and the wave your foot under the trunk to open. 

I really can't believe how clunky and horrible looking the menu system is.


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

I-Pace frunk:










Well, at least it's got one, that's more than can be said for most EVs! 

The real issue is that horrible energy consumption, combined with limited max charging rates, combined with the rarity of infrastructure that can even hit those rates. I'm sure it'd be a fine car for people looking for a "city car" that never does road trips of meaningful length, and who can afford its price. But if you're thinking about driving it across the US or Europe....

Well, bring a book. Actually, bring several.


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

tipton said:


> great write up. Tesla Bjorn has a ton of videos on the Ipace on his youtbe channel now and I've watched nearly all of them. When he compared it to his model X pretty much the only two things he liked more were the seats and the wave your foot under the trunk to open.
> 
> I really can't believe how clunky and horrible looking the menu system is.


Yeah, Bjørn has done a great job reviewing it (although he really should start doing rolldown tests in his reviews, to quantify aero and rolling drag). What surprised me most was A) how unbelievably terrible its driver assist system is (it's like the thing is trying to kill you), and B) how it doesn't even meet its claimed range specs (something I had considered a no-brainer). Bjørn got 373km / 231mi when driving at a slow 90kph / 56mph, with a couple percent left on the pack. I mean, what the heck, Jaguar? Model 3 LR RWDs (average of both 18"+19" wheels) average about 600km / 370mi at that speed, according to autocollected ABRP data. Again: not a car for straying too far from home.


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## Love (Sep 13, 2017)

Great read @John, thank you for taking the time. I'd definitely like to check it out myself in person. It certainly isn't a car I'm considering (we are good for quite a few years now... I think, lol) but it's awesome to know that someone will be in need of a new vehicle and that they'll be getting an EV. Maybe even some will be coming from an ICE. For that reason I am very happy with Jaguar for this offering.


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

KarenRei said:


> I-Pace frunk:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure that's not a "frunk", it's a "frunklet" or "frunkecita" in Latin America.


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## AEDennis (Apr 10, 2016)

Great write-up @John

My boss actually has a regular test drive scheduled at 10a today in Southern California that I'm going to miss and have to get his impressions as I have a pre-planned scheduled Annual Service for my wife's Roadster...

Glad for your pictures and comments to add in "the bank". My colleague loved it... but he is coming from a Bolt EV and has a different frame of reference...

I was just wondering how close the car got to the focus groups I was interviewed in a few years ago...


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

@John, excellent review! Style points for the Pee-Wee Herman reference.


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## John (Apr 16, 2016)

One line of thinking that I notice I keep coming back to is that I wonder how much appeal the I-PACE will have to other Jag owners, and whether Jag will get much new traffic from people coming to ask about it.

On the one hand, as I mention above, overall it's a thoroughly conventional car, except for the fact that you put electricity in it instead of gas. Jag has a couple of other SUVs that very closely resemble it, inside and out. The I-PACE adds a charge port and some energy screens. Otherwise, all the same controls. Someone could literally test drive it without knowing it's electric, though they may doubt it's turned on at first.

On the one hand, luxury cars are pretty quiet anyway. Will people pay more for a silent Jag?

It's not the most luxurious Jag. You don't get the argyle-pattern comfy leather and fine finish details of the XJ.

It's not the quickest Jag. It's visual twin, the gas-powered F-PACE SVR 8-cylinder Turbo with 550 HP is 0.4 seconds quicker 0-60. And the Jaguar XE SV Project 8 has muscle-car styling and does 0-60 in 3.3 seconds. And is trackable (with Nürburgring Nordschleife cred).

It has the same map and entertainment tech as other Jags.

It's less convenient to "fuel" than other Jags and has just over half the range of a base gas model (246 miles versus ~400 miles). And there's evidence that the electric range is wildly optimistic. (One Jag tech asked the range of my Model 3, then asked, "But what do you REALLY get?").

While much quicker, it's also much more expensive than a base gas-powered F-PACE, which is $45K instead of $69-84K and looks the same to neighbors, inside and out.

So it may appeal to people whose conscience tells them they should drive electric, but who don't want anyone mistaking them for a tree hugger or one of those Tesla people. (Language a friend of mine uses. She "cannot bring herself to become one.")

Overall? Another electric car that sells modestly. Though I speak strictly from a US perspective, there are maybe (guessing) maybe 5% of the population that makes their second-biggest purchase based primarily on ecological impact given the tradeoffs. Thus the marginal historic popularity of otherwise perfectly acceptable electrical cars.

In short, Jaguar did not commit to making I-PACE better in all—or even most—respects than its other cars.

Were it not for Tesla, Jaguar would reinforce the notion that, "Not that many people are interested in electric vehicles yet, because other than being quieter and soothing your conscience, they don't provide any extra convenience, range, power, tech, or luxury. They just add cost."


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## EValuatED (Apr 29, 2017)

KarenRei said:


> I-Pace frunk:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





PNWmisty said:


> I'm pretty sure that's not a "frunk", it's a "frunklet" or "frunkecita" in Latin America.


It's adorable! Really! OK no it's not. It's a center console that got misplaced during some CAD update maybe.


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## John (Apr 16, 2016)

EValuatED said:


> It's adorable! Really! OK no it's not. It's a center console that got misplaced during some CAD update maybe.


They're lucky it materialized there in an otherwise open space, then. 
Whew, could have been ugly.


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

John said:


> It's less convenient to "fuel" than other Jags and has just over half the range of a base gas model (246 miles versus ~400 miles). And there's evidence that the electric range is wildly optimistic. (One Jag tech asked the range of my Model 3, then asked, "But what do you REALLY get?").


It's stated range is wildly optimistic. I get that. But, I could live with the range for day-to-day usage with just a bit more planning. For trips, I would opt for a car like the Model 3 (or an ICE car, ugh!). However, I think if it's range is compatible with your usage patterns, and you have a charger at it's dedicated parking spot at home, it's still more convenient to fuel than an ICE car. I really hate gas stations and would regularly run my ICE cars/motorcycles down to 1/10th tank or even less. I guess I don't get the whole range anxiety thing, I just hate stopping at gas stations. THAT'S inconvenient, not plugging in when you get home.

BTW, how did you respond when the Jaguar tech asked what kind of range you REALLY get? I would have answered honestly "well, I rarely use it all but, in typical usage, overall, I get a little over 10% better than it's rated range."

Our Model 3 with 5,000 miles is sitting right at 221 Wh/mi. since new. It would be even better but we took the Aero wheel covers off for 3900 of those miles.



> It's not the quickest Jag. It's visual twin, the gas-powered F-PACE SVR 8-cylinder Turbo with 550 HP is 0.4 seconds quicker 0-60. And the Jaguar XE SV Project 8 has muscle-car styling and does 0-60 in 3.3 seconds. And is trackable (with Nürburgring Nordschleife cred).


That makes the gas-powered Jags better for the track which comprises about 0.001% of all driving in developed nations. I just made that statistic up. However, for driving on the street, the electric iPace is still superior to the gas Jags due to the lack of dependency upon down-shifting and instant throttle response. That 0.4 sec. 0-60 advantage is minuscule compared to the advantage of having instant torque available. So the EV wins the street performance acceleration in my opinion. Not that I've ever driven an iPace, just going by the specs.

I just hope the iPace doesn't develop problems that give all EV's a bad name. Like early battery failures, drive train failures, motor controller failures, etc. Because you know the anti-EV crowd would crow and try to transfer iPace lack of reliability/expense of ownership to ALL EV's.


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## John (Apr 16, 2016)

PNWmisty said:


> BTW, how did you respond when the Jaguar tech asked what kind of range you REALLY get?


The actual conversation went like this:

"What do you think about it? Could you see yourself driving an electric car?"
"Oh. Well, we do have a Tesla already."
"Yeah? Nice. Which one?"
"The new Model 3."
"What's the range on that?"
"310 miles."
"Right. But what range do you really get?" [wink, eyebrow lift]
"310 miles."
"Oh." [looks to the side and down]


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## EValuatED (Apr 29, 2017)

John said:


> They're lucky it materialized there in an otherwise open space, then.
> Whew, could have been ugly.


What were they thinking with the differently sized slots. "Hmmm... perhaps the newspaper could go there... and the postal mail there, and... hmmm... no, I don't think we could fit something that large... oh well, just wrap it up and save the design."

Edit: fixed typo.


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## John (Apr 16, 2016)

PNWmisty said:


> I just hope the iPace doesn't develop problems that give all EV's a bad name. Like early battery failures, drive train failures, motor controller failures, etc. Because you know the anti-EV crowd would crow and try to transfer iPace lack of reliability/expense of ownership to ALL EV's.


My intuition from spending an afternoon with it is that it will be fine in terms of reliability since it seems solidly built and well-engineered (if a bit shoehorned in its chassis).

The battery life is another thing entirely. I predict that issue will plague all other EVs who market aggressive catch-up range numbers, along with poor cost position.

During earnings season trad auto CEOs, who love to share common earnings headwinds with each other-if everyone is suffering from something, it must be true-will moan that "EVs are known to be currently unprofitable," while Tesla proves there is Tesla-and everyone else.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

John said:


> "What's the range on that?"
> "310 miles."
> "Right. But what range do you really get?" [wink, eyebrow lift]
> "*340 *miles."
> "Oh." [looks to the side and down]


FTFY


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## John (Apr 16, 2016)

garsh said:


> FTFY


Please use the right lane.


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## Etzy (Apr 4, 2016)

I was invited to a Jaguar iPace drive event held today at the San Mateo (CA) county fairgrounds. I got to drive the car around city streets for about 10 minutes. It drives like an EV - instant torque, good acceleration, one pedal driving - all the things I loved about my 2013 Model S and I now love about my Model 3 (RWD). 

A couple of notes from the event in no particular order: I was told they will allocate 3,500 vehicles to the US in 2019. The car is being built in Austria. The car starts around $85,000 though I declined to go to their website and configure one to see what a nicely optioned car actually costs. The interior is very busy (lots of buttons and knobs) and you can't really tell you are in an EV until you drive it. This is an SUV with a suspension that can be raised and lowered but the suspension is not "location aware". 

The Jaguar rep who rode with me on the test drive was, well "interesting". He told me that he would never buy an EV and that he just prefers gas cars (so why are you working at this event?). He also said that the car's battery has some feature that "would not let it catch on fire like a Tesla", although he really couldn't explain what that feature was. He said that the car would prevent you from ever getting below a 20% SOC because if you did, "the battery could catch on fire or at the very least would need to be replaced". The car apparently has a Jaguar version of TACC and "lane keeping" like Tesla's Autopilot. However, he said he would never use it because if someone cut in front of you, the car could not react as fast as he could and there would be an accident. I did talk with a couple of other Jaguar Reps who were much more positive and informed about the iPace so, perhaps, he was an outlier. They did have all their gas cars there and available to be driven so the event was a little bit of a "bate and switch" but if you only wanted to look at their EV, they weren't pushy towards their ICEs. 

The range was reported to be 234 miles so there is no way you could drive to Tahoe from the Bay Area to go skiing on one charge. Until they get DC fast charging at least somewhat available, the lack of Supercharging is going to be a challenge to sales. Although if they can't sell 3,500 of these in all of 2019, they should pack it in. 

In Summary: It is really a very nice car - but, for SO MANY reasons, it is not a "Tesla Killer".


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

Thanks for reminding me of everything that I don't like about car salesmen. Fortunately, I will not have to deal with them ever again.


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## JimmT (Aug 1, 2017)

I got a chance to attend the Jaguar event tonight; I won't rehash John's excellent writeup but I will offer a few impressions.

The iPace feels like a heavier car, not necessarily in a bad way but it definitely feels heavier than the Model 3. Acceleration felt fine, but not quite as quick as the M3.

What I really didn't like was the interior, too much chrome and too many screens. The Jaguar rep actually displayed a fair amount of frustration at the start when our iPace wouldn't start properly. He had to press a bunch of different buttons to get the car going. Also, the screen response was very slow in comparison to the Model 3.

It was a fun event, especially the slalom run. I'd definitely recommend attending the event if you get an invite.


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## John (Apr 16, 2016)

JimmT said:


> I got a chance to attend the Jaguar event tonight; I won't rehash John's excellent writeup but I will offer a few impressions.
> 
> The iPace feels like a heavier car, not necessarily in a bad way but it definitely feels heavier than the Model 3. Acceleration felt fine, but not quite as quick as the M3.
> 
> ...


If you're like me, you've thought several times about asking if you can do "just one run" in your Model 3.


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## John (Apr 16, 2016)

Just for convenience, here's a crosslink to my impressions and photos (and a video) after driving it a couple of times, including on a slalom course.

Driving Impressions of Jaguar I-PACE from a Model 3 Owner


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

Just got back from "JaguarElectrifies" Miami


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

noticed the first one of these in the wild this morning. certainly not a style vehicle I'd be interested in owning, but can see it appealing to a certain type (those wanting others to be aware they have $ to purchase a silly styled Jaguar)


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## John (Apr 16, 2016)

MelindaV said:


> noticed the first one of these in the wild this morning. certainly not a style vehicle I'd be interested in owning, but can see it appealing to a certain type (those wanting others to be aware they have $ to purchase a silly styled Jaguar)


My initial impression was kinda different: it looks so much like other Jag SUVs that people will just think you have a normal gas-burning Jag.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

John said:


> My initial impression was kinda different: it looks so much like other Jag SUVs that people will just think you have a normal gas-burning Jag.


agree - if you didnt know it was an EV, or pick up on the EV in the badging, you wouldnt really notice much different than the other jaguar SUVs (which I also think are totally silly looking)


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

I also test drove an i-Pace at the LA Auto Show. I actually thought that the Audi was a nicer vehicle.


garsh said:


> I just got done test driving an Audi etron at the LA Auto Show. It's a nice SUV. Much nicer than my old Nissan Leaf. 😉


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

PNWmisty said:


> It looks like Tesla is making more Model 3's every day than there are iPace in the world after 6 months of regular production. Remember, it went into pre-production last Sept. or October. This is no way to kill Tesla! They are Making Musk's production ramp-up look positively genius!


I saw ONE at the office complex where In work! Of course, it's not there _every _day, and there are also between 1 and 7 Teslas there, and 1 and 4 Chevy Volts, depending on the day.


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