# New v10.2 feature: Driving Visualization Improvements



## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Driving Visualization Improvements first appeared in the release notes for 2019.40.50 (official thread and discussion thread).

*Driving Visualization Improvements*​The driving visualization can now display additional objects which include stop lights, stop signs and select road markings. The stop sign and stop light visualizations are not a substitute for an attentive driver and will not stop the car. To see these additional object in your driving visualization, tap Controls > Autopilot > Full Self-Driving Visualization Preview.​


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## jmaddr (Apr 10, 2019)

I'm wondering if this will be a HW3 only option. With the cones only in HW3, I would think the same holds for these new ones.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

jmaddr said:


> I'm wondering if this will be a HW3 only option.


I believe it is.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

jmaddr said:


> I'm wondering if this will be a HW3 only option. With the cones only in HW3, I would think the same holds for these new ones.


I expect that will be true.

Another question: similarly to the cones, will these visualizations show up on cars with HW3 but without FSD? I'm guessing yes.

Down the line, this raises a question: will a HW3 upgrade be made available to those with HW2.5 without having to buy FSD? For example, suppose FSD is $8k (assuming Tesla follows through with its plan of gradually increasing the cost of that option). Might they offer the HW3 chip for $3k?

Obviously they wouldn't do that until they cleared the backlog of people with HW2.5 who have paid for FSD. But after that?

My guess on that is yes, but I could see it going either way. Requiring HW2.5 owners to pay for FSD to get HW3 would of course incentivize the FSD purchase. But since HW3 without FSD is the standard option on new Teslas, there's an argument to be made that older Teslas might be allowed to get that configuration as well. And I do think that at some point HW2.5 with AP (not FSD) will come to be seen as a safety liability relative to HW3 with AP (not FSD). When that happens, it could almost be seen as a recall-type situation.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

DocScott said:


> My guess on that is yes, but I could see it going either way. Requiring HW2.5 owners to pay for FSD to get HW3 would of course incentivize the FSD purchase.


or... at that point, given that most people look at cars as 5-year disposable goods, how many will opt to trade in for a new car instead of pay for the computer upgrade.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

MelindaV said:


> or... at that point, given that most people look at cars as 5-year disposable goods, how many will opt to trade in for a new car instead of pay for the computer upgrade.


Under than scenario, I'm more confident as to what would happen. If they trade the car in to Tesla, I would bet that Tesla would then install the HW3 upgrade before reselling the used car.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

DocScott said:


> Under than scenario, I'm more confident as to what would happen. If they trade the car in to Tesla, I would bet that Tesla would then install the HW3 upgrade before reselling the used car.


Tesla has stated that they'll stop selling used cars, and just use lease-returns to fill out their robo-taxi fleet. But I believe that all leased cars have HW3.

We've already been seeing that Tesla's trade-in offers for old Teslas is now just as bad as for other cars. They'd rather just get themselves completely out of the used-car business - including other Teslas.


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## Kizzy (Jul 25, 2016)

Okay, the new visualizations are pretty mind-blowing for me. (Like little mind blowing, not huge mind blowing.)

I’m sad my car won’t get this yet. I’m going to guess that roundabout road markings are not among the select road markings that will be rendered in this update. 🙂


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

So, can anyone with HW3 but without FSD confirm they get the visualizations?


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

I have a support group on Twitter for those with HW2/2.5


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## dzoey (May 31, 2019)

I drove from Philadelphia to Baltimore on back roads to see the new FSD preview visualization. Here are a few things I've noticed

It's pretty good at detecting stop signs if there is a clear view of the stop sign. Less good if the stop sign is partially hidden until close. 
It's really good at detecting trash cans. I did not see it miss a single trash can and I didn't see any false positives
Traffic cones are detected but there continue to be false positives. 
Stop lights are detected but it shows there's still a fair amount of way to go. It does detect red and green. I never saw a yellow visualization, but yellow is for so short a time it's possible I missed it. 
It's hard to make out stop light details in the visualization until the car is close to the intersection.
It sort of detects stop lights facing different directions. At an intersection where the roads were not exactly perpendicular, it would detect stop lights from both roads. As a human, while I can see the color of the stop light for the other road, I can tell that it's not facing me. The visualization struggled to determine facing (or maybe to just visualize the facing).
I think this is a great preview. It's clear that progress is being made and it's clear that there's still a lot of ground to cover. I think the stop sign detection is pretty good, but I've only seen it detect stop signs for my direction. FSD will need to know whether there are stop signs for all directions or just some directions and it will need to be polite and let other cars go first if they arrived at their stop sign first. If nothing else, this preview has given me an appreciation for the complexity that FSD will need to handle.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

dzoey said:


> I drove from Philadelphia to Baltimore on back roads to see the new FSD preview visualization. Here are a few things I've noticed
> 
> It's pretty good at detecting stop signs if there is a clear view of the stop sign. Less good if the stop sign is partially hidden until close.
> It's really good at detecting trash cans. I did not see it miss a single trash can and I didn't see any false positives
> ...


Thank you for that input. And welcome to the forum!!


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## Kizzy (Jul 25, 2016)

dzoey said:


> I drove from Philadelphia to Baltimore on back roads to see the new FSD preview visualization. Here are a few things I've noticed
> 
> It's pretty good at detecting stop signs if there is a clear view of the stop sign. Less good if the stop sign is partially hidden until close.
> It's really good at detecting trash cans. I did not see it miss a single trash can and I didn't see any false positives
> ...


Interesting. For checking out stop lights, might you try with a passenger and three-finger scrolling to bet a closer look at stoplights that are still a bit of distance away?


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

A random guy on Twitter is saying that people with HW3 but without FSD _do_ get these visualizations.

It's amazing to me that it's been so hard for me to find the answer to that question.

Note that this means that Model 3 owners who bought FSD back in 2018 (or before) still have gotten _absolutely nothing_ for that purchase. We talk about Smart Summon like it's an FSD feature, which is true for cars bought more recently. But for older cars, it's an EAP feature. There's a lot of discussion of visualizations as an FSD feature, but, while it does give hints of what FSD will be able to do, it's not--it's a HW3 feature.

If I'd bought FSD in 2018, I'd be pretty annoyed right now. (I didn't, but that was sort of by chance; at one point, it was my plan to do so.) To me, it's a different situation than, for example, paying for something that is now free, like AP, because when I paid for AP I got AP--it wasn't free then.


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

DocScott said:


> A random guy on Twitter is saying that people with HW3 but without FSD _do_ get these visualizations.
> 
> It's amazing to me that it's been so hard for me to find the answer to that question.
> 
> ...


I'll confirm. My wife's car has HW3 but no FSD, and she has the visualization. I have HW2.5 and FSD, but no visualization. The visualization is truly NO BIG DEAL at this time. I have little doubt that we'll have HW3 well before we need it for something that truly matters.


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

DocScott said:


> If I'd bought FSD in 2018, I'd be pretty annoyed right now.


I did, and I can't speak for others of course, but I knew FSD was a crap shoot at the time of purchase (August 2018). IMO, it's still a crap shoot. But I am not annoyed. I'm a long term owner and can afford to be patient.


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