# FW rollout process



## barjohn (Aug 31, 2017)

I haven't received 12 or 12.1 yet and I enjoy getting the updates but it still bugs me that they frequently fail to fix existing bugs (they don't tell us what is supposed to have been fixed) and they seem to introduce new bugs we didn't have before. With all of the early access folks how does this happen? Don't they provide feedback and let Tesla know about these bugs? If so, why doesn't Tesla listen and fix them?


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## theblindtree (May 1, 2018)

barjohn said:


> I haven't received 12 or 12.1 yet and I enjoy getting the updates but it still bugs me that they frequently fail to fix existing bugs (they don't tell us what is supposed to have been fixed) and they seem to introduce new bugs we didn't have before. With all of the early access folks how does this happen? Don't they provide feedback and let Tesla know about these bugs? If so, why doesn't Tesla listen and fix them?


That's par for the course when it comes to software development, especially if you're constantly introducing new features. Knowing is only half the battle.

It's like I told a friend of mine that was interested in buying a Tesla: understand that you're purchasing a work-in-progress, and that is only a good thing depending upon your outlook.


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## John Di Cecco (Sep 25, 2017)

The software issues we see seem like issues that are not 1 in a million corner cases. At some point it's no longer being fast to market and approaches incompetence. Who is in charge of QA? Or have they decided to have no quality control and simply let customers figure it out.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

barjohn said:


> I haven't received 12 or 12.1 yet and I enjoy getting the updates but it still bugs me that they frequently fail to fix existing bugs (they don't tell us what is supposed to have been fixed) and they seem to introduce new bugs we didn't have before. With all of the early access folks how does this happen? Don't they provide feedback and let Tesla know about these bugs? If so, why doesn't Tesla listen and fix them?


I also think there are three kinds of problems that people are referring to as "bugs":

1. Problems with the firmware code. This is what people are thinking of when they call something a bug.

2. Problems with installing a new firmware update. There have been a number of reports of partial installs causing problems. This looks like a bug, because it appears with the new firmware and may go away with a subsequent firmware update. But it's not actually a bug, because there's nothing wrong with the code in the firmware itself. If users were able to reinstall the _same_ version of the firmware, it might fix it if the install went right the second time, but that's not an option owners have.

3. Problems that have nothing to do with firmware installation. For example, maybe a sensor gets finicky. It may coincidentally happen around the time of a new firmware update, and the owner might think it was a firmware bug. But it won't ever go away with subsequent updates, because it's actually a hardware problem.

I think a lot of people tend to assume when there's a problem, it's of type 1. But sometimes it's actually type 2 or 3.

I agree that more detailed change logs for firmware updates would be very helpful, and would help clarify which kind of problem a given car was having.


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## Ed Woodrick (May 26, 2018)

John Di Cecco said:


> The software issues we see seem like issues that are not 1 in a million corner cases. At some point it's no longer being fast to market and approaches incompetence. Who is in charge of QA? Or have they decided to have no quality control and simply let customers figure it out.


Read what you agreed to, it's beta software and we'll known to be incomplete


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## Baymax (Aug 31, 2018)

Honest question: Is the entire display “beta”? Would think reported problems of screen blanking out on 8.5 wouldn’t exist in 12.1? 4 weeks of development/debugging for a pretty integral part of the car. Can’t speak for OP, but I think that’s an example of “how did this get out in the wild?”, or at least a “How is this not fixed yet?”


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

Baymax said:


> Honest question: Is the entire display "beta"? Would think reported problems of screen blanking out on 8.5 wouldn't exist in 12.1? 4 weeks of development/debugging for a pretty integral part of the car. Can't speak for OP, but I think that's an example of "how did this get out in the wild?", or at least a "How is this not fixed yet?"


I did a Google search for Tesla screen blackout. I find descriptions of that kind of problem from every year since 2013. Here is just one thread on that kind of issue.

So why do we think this is an "8.5" issue rather than, essentially, a Tesla issue? And here are reports from people running 2018.42.2. This has sometimes been a problem with Teslas. When it happens to someone, it often happens to the same person repeatedly.

So it's not necessarily a problem with insufficient testing of 8.5. It just seems to be a more fundamental problem with Teslas that eventually crops up for some people.

And yes, that's on Tesla. They should track down what causes that problem and fix it. Maybe they'll figure out that it can be fixed via a firmware update at some point. But I don't think it should be thought of as a recent problem that has started because they just introduced some new bugs in recent firmware.


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## Baymax (Aug 31, 2018)

DocScott said:


> So it's not necessarily a problem with insufficient testing of 8.5. It just seems to be a more fundamental problem with Teslas that eventually crops up for some people.
> 
> And yes, that's on Tesla. They should track down what causes that problem and fix it. Maybe they'll figure out that it can be fixed via a firmware update at some point. But I don't think it should be thought of as a recent problem that has started because they just introduced some new bugs in recent firmware.


Understood. I too experienced it, albeit rarely, on earlier builds, so I'm not saying that's where it started. However, it seemed to be much more evident on 8.5 builds (check the 8.5 thread). Literally happened to me more in 8.5 than had occurred in all builds combined since taking delivery of my Model 3 in August. I don't believe the primary display going out during driving is an acceptable bug, flaw, feature, whatever you want to call it. The fact similar issues have existed for so long, and seem to get worse/better with various software builds, makes me believe a root cause could be identified. I'd gladly trade Tetris for a stable display.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

DocScott said:


> I did a Google search for Tesla screen blackout. I find descriptions of that kind of problem from every year since 2013. Here is just one thread on that kind of issue.
> 
> So why do we think this is an "8.5" issue rather than, essentially, a Tesla issue? And here are reports from people running 2018.42.2. This has sometimes been a problem with Teslas. When it happens to someone, it often happens to the same person repeatedly.
> 
> ...


remember, people will not typically post publicly when everything is working as expected. 
exception being the following quote 


garsh said:


> My Tesla software worked flawlessly during my commute this morning, even with a light rain.
> It unlocked with no delay when I operated the door handle to open it.
> NOA performed correctly, and even suggested that I get out of the passing lane at one point.
> No rebooting was required at any point, before or after.
> ...


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

garsh said:


> I'll be sure to post this message after every single commute during which I don't have any problems with the software. :expressionless:


Sorry, I have not been posting this message as I had promised.


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## epmenard (Mar 5, 2019)

I'm still having a hard time understanding why some software releases don't make it to everyone. I'm still on 2019.8.4 or 10 releases behind the latest official release. Almost 4% of teslaFi registered users appear to be stuck on even older firmware versions than mine.

I understand some of the minor updates but why would my car have skipped 2019.8.5, 2019.8.6 and could skip the latest 2019.12.1?

I am also aware of Tesla's Early Access Program, but that would surely not represent the bulk of users and would also not be able to justify so many version skips. Can anyone shed a light on the seemingly random deployment schedule?


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

epmenard said:


> I'm still having a hard time understanding why some software releases don't make it to everyone. I'm still on 2019.8.4 or 10 releases behind the latest official release. Almost 4% of teslaFi registered users appear to be stuck on even older firmware versions than mine.
> 
> I understand some of the minor updates but why would my car have skipped 2019.8.5, 2019.8.6 and could skip the latest 2019.12.1?
> 
> ...


It just simply isn't meant to be. While it isn't officially part of the early access program, I believe they are likely to collect different measurements and feedback from different cars on different firmware. They don't want all of us on a single release. I figure it could easily be another 24 months before we see every car start to get the same firmware. We will all be disappointed at that time too because it likely means they've implemented all of the features they want to implement and things are very stable.

Each of us will leap frog others depending on options selected on the car, feedback they need and features being updated in the software. Every few months they do let it stabilize a bit and get most caught up and then we will see another round of roll outs.

We could be even more spread out now perhaps because of FSD HW. It seems those cars are running different SW than the rest of us. It could be a while before they again have a single version that supports all HW configs.

All I can say is don't get too hung up on it. I did at one time, but it just isn't meant to be. Only when you find yourself perhaps down in the very last percentage running a release and everyone else has moved on then you might have a problem or concern, but those cases are few and far between.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

epmenard said:


> I'm still having a hard time understanding why some software releases don't make it to everyone. I'm still on 2019.8.4 or 10 releases behind the latest official release. Almost 4% of teslaFi registered users appear to be stuck on even older firmware versions than mine.
> 
> I understand some of the minor updates but why would my car have skipped 2019.8.5, 2019.8.6 and could skip the latest 2019.12.1?
> 
> ...


Do you have EAP or FSD?

My understanding is the big difference between 8.4 and 8.5 is no-confirmation lane change. If you're not either EAP or FSD, then that's not a feature you'd get anyway.

I'm still on 8.3, but that seems fine to me, because I only have vanilla AP. So I don't need the no-confirmation lane change from 8.5. 9 was an early-access version, and 12.x is still in limited roll-out. So I don't feel behind at all.


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## Ed Woodrick (May 26, 2018)

Baymax said:


> Honest question: Is the entire display "beta"? Would think reported problems of screen blanking out on 8.5 wouldn't exist in 12.1? 4 weeks of development/debugging for a pretty integral part of the car. Can't speak for OP, but I think that's an example of "how did this get out in the wild?", or at least a "How is this not fixed yet?"


No, but I wasn't talking about it. But yes, there are portions of the screen code that are beta. As @DocScott mentioned, these have been occurring for a long time. There are some releases that have never reset for me, some releases that reset more. I've had a couple in 2019.8.5, but before that it was months. I had one release last year that was really bad last year. The main thing that you learn is that it is just a reboot, life goes on, the car goes on. Go find a safe road and turn autopilot on and let it drive. Then just reboot the display (hold both buttons in) and see what happens. Sure, it's not the best thing, but at the worse, you just drive the car.


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## Ed Woodrick (May 26, 2018)

epmenard said:


> I'm still having a hard time understanding why some software releases don't make it to everyone. I'm still on 2019.8.4 or 10 releases behind the latest official release. Almost 4% of teslaFi registered users appear to be stuck on even older firmware versions than mine.
> 
> I understand some of the minor updates but why would my car have skipped 2019.8.5, 2019.8.6 and could skip the latest 2019.12.1?


So, the first reason would be, are all the cars identical? We've got 2 platforms (S/X and 3) which easily suggest possible difference and then within, various variants.


Next, let's say that you start rolling out software as any software producer does. As it hits the public, you start hearing or seeing issues. Do you let this continue or do you stop the rollout. That's what happened with the Enhanced Summons. 


Now, let's say that you've got folks in northern climates that are having cold battery issues. You've got a fix that should go out pretty quickly. Do you start with Southern California as is their common practice or do you just start up North? 


Now that the cold battery fix is rolling out, here comes another update for other features, do you complete rolling out the cold update or do you just start with the new update?


Oh, and the new update is a main development branch and the cold battery was a branch. So now the cold battery is rolled back into the main development branch and it now needs to be redeployed. 
This is a pretty common development cycle and you are dealing with a product that is under development. I hope that you didn't buy the Tesla expecting it to never change, as if you did, you bought the wrong car.

It is kinda funny, we went through the first of the year with no updates, people complained. Now we are back into an active update cycle, people complaing.

Just stop reading the forums and none of these issues will occur.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

@Ed Woodrick - nicely summarized. and beyond just the 3 vs S/X and regional variants... even within just the 3, where there are few models, there are still tons of variants within those models. Each time a part is redesigned, it potentially has a different impact on an unrelated part. IE a steering wheel/column is replaced with one 9 months newer and it interacts with other systems the slightest bit differently than the earlier part. multiply that by the number of parts in the car with a chip in it and you end up with more variants that could impact the FW than any casual observer could imagine.


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## epmenard (Mar 5, 2019)

Ed Woodrick said:


> So, the first reason would be, are all the cars identical? We've got 2 platforms (S/X and 3) which easily suggest possible difference and then within, various variants.
> 
> 
> Next, let's say that you start rolling out software as any software producer does. As it hits the public, you start hearing or seeing issues. Do you let this continue or do you stop the rollout. That's what happened with the Enhanced Summons.
> ...


I'm not complaining about not getting every single release, I am simply interested in understanding how the deployment is organised. Thank you all for the great insight.

TOO is a great community and your comments are much appreciated!


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## Ed Woodrick (May 26, 2018)

epmenard said:


> I'm not complaining about not getting every single release, I am simply interested in understanding how the deployment is organised. Thank you all for the great insight.
> 
> TOO is a great community and your comments are much appreciated!


No problems, oh, I forgot one, country specific localizations! Different laws, steering wheels in wrong places, Klingon languages


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## barjohn (Aug 31, 2017)

I just tweeted Elon a suggestion that they reduce the number of versions of software they publish and support. He wants to reduce cost, this is an area he could significantly cut costs. I have managed large software development projects for the Navy and I kept the number of active versions we were supporting to no more than 3 and preferably just 2. When you have 6-10 versions it takes a lot of resources to just to track which versions have which bugs and as we see in the software releases, things that worked in one release are broken in the next. With that number of teams it is easy to have one fix broken by a different team fixing a different bug. The communications become a nightmare. They could narrow their focus, get bugs fixed more quickly and get new features rolled out faster. A win for everyone. They could put the extra resources it would free up to more thoroughly testing code for both bug fixes and whether they have introduced any new ones.


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## DWalker (Apr 18, 2019)

barjohn said:


> I just tweeted Elon a suggestion that they reduce the number of versions of software they publish and support. He wants to reduce cost, this is an area he could significantly cut costs. I have managed large software development projects for the Navy and I kept the number of active versions we were supporting to no more than 3 and preferably just 2. When you have 6-10 versions it takes a lot of resources to just to track which versions have which bugs and as we see in the software releases, things that worked in one release are broken in the next. With that number of teams it is easy to have one fix broken by a different team fixing a different bug. The communications become a nightmare. They could narrow their focus, get bugs fixed more quickly and get new features rolled out faster. A win for everyone. They could put the extra resources it would free up to more thoroughly testing code for both bug fixes and whether they have introduced any new ones.


It's probably going to get worse before it gets better with the introduction of FSD. Since the architecture is brand-new (ie, not nVidia), they are probably going to be stuck in multi-version hades for the foreseeable future. I'd imagine they won't clear the hurdle until they label non-FSD "feature complete" and are able to focus all new development on *just* the FSD hardware.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

barjohn said:


> I just tweeted Elon a suggestion that they reduce the number of versions of software they publish and support. He wants to reduce cost, this is an area he could significantly cut costs. I have managed large software development projects for the Navy and I kept the number of active versions we were supporting to no more than 3 and preferably just 2. When you have 6-10 versions it takes a lot of resources to just to track which versions have which bugs and as we see in the software releases, things that worked in one release are broken in the next. With that number of teams it is easy to have one fix broken by a different team fixing a different bug. The communications become a nightmare. They could narrow their focus, get bugs fixed more quickly and get new features rolled out faster. A win for everyone. They could put the extra resources it would free up to more thoroughly testing code for both bug fixes and whether they have introduced any new ones.


According to TeslaFi, 94% of cars are currently on one of four versions. But really, it's more like two old versions which are transitioning to new ones.

12.1.1 is mostly for S and X cars. That's rapidly being upgraded to 16.1.1, which is exclusively for older S and X cars.

12.1.2 is mostly for newer cars (AP 2.5). There's been a limited roll-out to 16.1, but it hasn't gone wide yet. That's a pretty standard strategy for Tesla, to see if there are problems before switching everyone over.

All the other versions appear to either be old orphans where the cars may have gotten "stuck" on an old version for one reason or another, or the occasional odd-ball new variant (e.g. 12.1.3) which goes to very few cars and has an unclear purpose.

So for the most part, they've gotten it back to two versions, which then undergo an upgrade cycle.

Frankly, I'm not sure why Tesla insists on having one firmware scheme for all models. Many things are very different between cars: batteries (think an old S vs. a new 3), autopilot sensors, MCU, autopilot computer, etc.. There aren't third-party apps that require compatibility, and the cars don't need to share files with each other. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point there are some permanent forks, perhaps associated with who has the FSD computer.


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

Ed Woodrick said:


> Read what you agreed to, it's beta software and we'll known to be incomplete


On 12.1.2 I constantly loose AP, blind spot monitoring, TACC and every thing else "driver assist" related. Are those all considered Beta?


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## Lgkahn (Nov 21, 2018)

12.1.2 was the worse fw for me since last nov.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

StromTrooperM3 said:


> On 12.1.2 I constantly loose AP, blind spot monitoring, TACC and every thing else "driver assist" related. Are those all considered Beta?


I had these problems on my Model X about a year ago. I called Tesla many times. Sometimes they sent some "code" to the car and had me reboot. Would temporarily restore. But ultimately it turned out there was hardware that had to be replaced. Have you contacted Tesla? I'm skeptical that your problem is only software.


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## Kizzy (Jul 25, 2016)

StromTrooperM3 said:


> On 12.1.2 I constantly loose AP, blind spot monitoring, TACC and every thing else "driver assist" related. Are those all considered Beta?


I experienced all of that today with the intense rain in the California Bay Area. NoA has also been mostly absent lately on my route where NoA toggled on and off a few times on the off-ramp.


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

Bigriver said:


> Have you contacted Tesla? I'm skeptical that your problem is only software.


I called Friday as it was now a week of these things happening almost every drive. They stated my issues would be resolved with 2019.16 and that it would deliver within 30 days. I asked if they could push due to all of my saftey aids being down makes driving the car very unenjoyable. No dice.

The car will be parked in my garage until I get the next firmware. I'll drive one of my other cars. I'm torn between it being the firmware or something else. It's been fine up until 12.1.2 so I'll just wait. If it continues after next update I'll push the issue for further investigation. I've reported a bug every time it goes out so hopefully that helps


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## StromTrooperM3 (Mar 27, 2019)

Kizzy said:


> I experienced all of that today with the intense rain


I'd be more understanding of the inclement weather. But this is happening on 70 degree days with sunshine


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## barjohn (Aug 31, 2017)

It pains me to no end to see Tesla's software development effort. With around 8-10 versions in use at any point in time it is no wonder that things regress as often as they do. I can imagine it would be easy to have confused developers and have them fix the wrong thing in the wrong versions or break something that wasn't broken. Given how well the demo version of the software worked for the investor show, why can't we get that version? It appeared to work far better than any currently released version. Maybe it isn't perfect but then the current releases aren't perfect either.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

barjohn said:


> It pains me to no end to see Tesla's software development effort. With around 8-10 versions in use at any point in time it is no wonder that things regress as often as they do. I can imagine it would be easy to have confused developers and have them fix the wrong thing in the wrong versions or break something that wasn't broken. Given how well the demo version of the software worked for the investor show, why can't we get that version? It appeared to work far better than any currently released version. Maybe it isn't perfect but then the current releases aren't perfect either.


Could you list what you think are the 8-10 versions currently "in use"?

If you mean every version currently in some Tesla, there are many more than 8-10, since cars sometimes don't update for a variety of reasons.

If you mean "in wide release"--perhaps setting a threshold of 2% or more of cars, then TeslaFi shows only 4: 16.2, 16.1.1, 12.1.2, and 12.1.1.

Right now, though, I'd use an even smaller number: remarkably, I think it looks like we're finally back down to just one current release, which is 16.2. It's rolling out rapidly. Nothing else is rolling out in significant numbers. It's rolling out to every model, every AP hardware, and every geographical region. So I would call 16.2 the only current version of the firmware.

That's my count, but my question wasn't rhetorical--I really am curious as to what you mean by 8-10 versions in use.


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## barjohn (Aug 31, 2017)

[following 4 posts moved from FW 2019.20.0.1 thread] 
I am wondering if this is rolling out only to EAP & FSD customers or the general population. Anyone have any idea?


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## John (Apr 16, 2016)

barjohn said:


> I am wondering if this is rolling out only to EAP & FSD customers or the general population. Anyone have any idea?


The interesting thing to me is that so far: no California cars on TeslaFi.


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## barjohn (Aug 31, 2017)

I just checked and you are right. They did the same thing on 16.2. I think they are afraid of the CA crowd as being too outspoken and good at finding bugs.


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## John (Apr 16, 2016)

They like to find bugs ASAP.
But they'd like to do so with as little flak as possible.
They probably have experience that leads them to believe that California is not the place to debug. Lotta social media, something.
(He says as he types in social media.)


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

John said:


> The interesting thing to me is that so far: no California cars on TeslaFi.


...and now 2019.20.1 seems to be going out almost exclusively to Californians, so there appears to have been a plan around this.

I wonder what the difference is between the two versions?

Given that 2019.20.1 has some additional tweaks to Dog Mode, I'm wondering whether California was prioritized for reasons similar to why it received priority for Sentry Mode. That is to say, a higher rate of "good samaritans" smashing windows to "save" pets from overheating...?


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## John (Apr 16, 2016)

Just installed 2019.20.1. California.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

Bokonon said:


> ...and now 2019.20.1 seems to be going out almost exclusively to Californians, so there appears to have been a plan around this.
> 
> I wonder what the difference is between the two versions?
> 
> Given that 2019.20.1 has some additional tweaks to Dog Mode, I'm wondering whether California was prioritized for reasons similar to why it received priority for Sentry Mode. That is to say, a higher rate of "good samaritans" smashing windows to "save" pets from overheating...?


...or perhaps 20.1 also includes the 80% default limit for Supercharging, and overcrowded Superchargers are especially common in California.

Can anyone with this version report what happens when they try Supercharging to >80% SOC?


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

This may be a new record. Then again, we do have a lot more cars in the fleet. But still....










More telling, almost no one is on 20.4.1 any more.


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## Frully (Aug 30, 2018)

I'm now up to 3 updates in 3 days...This must have been high priority, or some very convoluted prerequisite update stacking.

20.2.1
20.4.1
20.4.2


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## GaryW (Nov 21, 2017)

The only people getting this update had 20.4.1. No one else is getting it which means it mostly likely was a bug with .1. Probably holding back from the fleet to verify it fixes whatever it fixed.

Funny thing is my car was downloading .1 yesterday and this morning it showed nothing anymore saying my car is up to date. They pulled it pretty quick.


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## NR4P (Jul 14, 2018)

Talked to SC and they said they have no idea what this is and due to the rapidity of this release, its almost certainly correcting/fixing something. 
I got .1 Sunday night and this last night.

I like updates but 5 updates in 6 weeks for me is a bit much, and Tesla needs to package the updates better and test them.


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## lance.bailey (Apr 1, 2019)

i've had updates pulled on me in the past. back then before the new "as soon as available" option for software downloads i think that releases could get out in the wild faster, requiring a quick bug/patch update (or a quick three if you live in Calgary).


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

GaryW said:


> The only people getting this update had 20.4.1. No one else is getting it which means it mostly likely was a bug with .1. Probably holding back from the fleet to verify it fixes whatever it fixed.


Yeah, it was probably a bug fix. But it looks like it's rolling out to everyone else now... I just updated to 20.4.2 from 20.2.1.


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## ATechGuy (Sep 17, 2018)

Bokonon said:


> Yeah, it was probably a bug fix. But it looks like it's rolling out to everyone else now... I just updated to 20.4.2 from 20.2.1.


I think Elon wanted everyone to have the Beach Buggy Racing game before the 4th of July...


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

Bokonon said:


> Yeah, it was probably a bug fix. But it looks like it's rolling out to everyone else now... I just updated to 20.4.2 from 20.2.1.


Yeah, I got it last night, and I was on 20.2.1 also.

This has to be a record day:


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## Learner (Jun 25, 2019)

I installed 4.1 on 6/23/19 and they pushed 4.2 out on 6/26/19. Must have been a bug but I didn’t drive much on the day in between so did not notice a problem.


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## Jb1 (Mar 25, 2019)

How long do these roll outs of the updates generally take?


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## Learner (Jun 25, 2019)

Jb1 said:


> How long do these roll outs of the updates generally take?


Seems to depend on how long it takes every targeted vehicle to log on to a WiFi network that Tesla can access.


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## Ze1000 (May 22, 2018)

It seems that Tesla is holding off (on the dot week) updates.
At some point it was every 2 weeks approximately, then this year it was every 4 weeks. At this point we should have seen a 2019.28 already, but no traces of it.
Even a 2019.30 would be showing traces in the wild ...
They are probably preparing a major update aside of the v10 coming up late this year. Maybe they will release the smart summon before v10 (mid August) like Elon promised?


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## Mr. Spacely (Feb 28, 2019)

The next several months of rollouts and updates should be fun. Here's my optimistic/realistic guess:

v10-- August 2019
Summon-- August/September 2019
Stop light/stop sign recognition-- November 2019
HW3 retrofitting begins-- January 2020
Musk says "Feature Complete"-- March 2020
Limited city self driving (in Beta of course)-- May 2020
Real city self driving (in Beta still)-- August 2020
Robo taxi/sleeping while car drives allowed by various governments-- January 2021


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## Ze1000 (May 22, 2018)

Using your predictions to have my own.

v10 - October 2019
Summon+ - Aug/September 2019
Stop light/stop sign recognition - with v10
HW3 retrofits - Q2 2020
Musk says "feature complete" - November 2019
Limited city self driving (in Beta of course)-- September/October 2020 (with v11 release)
Real city self driving (in Beta still)-- Q2 2021
Robo taxi/sleeping while car drives allowed by various governments-- Sometime in 2023


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

That sequence seems to be the plan right now, but I hope they change it.

Somewhere in there I'd like to see on-ramp to off-ramp "real" self-driving. In other words, get on the interstate, engage self-driving, and be able to watch movies or answer email or play games or take a nap or whatever until the off-ramp. (Probably with increasingly urgent warnings as the off-ramp approaches.) That's a much easier goal than the full self-driving on city streets and should be able to happen _way_ in advance of it.

Instead, I think we're going to get more and more things the car can do while being monitored, which is not as useful to me. Sure, it would be impressive if, for example, the car could execute an unprotected left turn kinda sorta on its own. But if the driver have to watch it like a hawk while it's doing it, that's more a parlor trick than a truly useful feature.

The end goal is the same: full self-driving. But please let's try to get there by getting real self-driving in some situations and extending it to more and more, rather than by getting monitored "assisted" driving everywhere and then gradually trying to level all that up simultaneously.


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## Franklin L (Sep 23, 2017)

How long should it take someone with FSD ordered to get their firmware update. I selected early updates, but I don’t seem to be getting them earlier.


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## RSavage (Aug 31, 2017)

Franklin L said:


> How long should it take someone with FSD ordered to get their firmware update. I selected early updates, but I don't seem to be getting them earlier.


As of the time of your post, according to stats on TeslaFi, less than 6% of the Model3 fleet has been updated to 2019.28.2 Be patient, most of us are still waiting


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## sduck (Nov 23, 2017)

Franklin L said:


> How long should it take someone with FSD ordered to get their firmware update. I selected early updates, but I don't seem to be getting them earlier.


Currently, after you purchase FSD after the fact, 1 of 2 things happen - if you already have EAP, nothing happens, and if you only have AP, then you get a small set of addon features to make your AP the same as EAP. I'm not sure how the latter happens, but the first option can be a bit misleading, as you get a message saying that your car will update soon, but it actually doesn't. You still get the same updates as everyone else though.


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## Nom (Oct 30, 2018)

Can someone give a sense for what portion of M3s have this update? Still waiting. I don’t have the apps that seem to show portion of cars at different software version levels.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

Nom said:


> Can someone give a sense for what portion of M3s have this update? Still waiting. I don't have the apps that seem to show portion of cars at different software version levels.


Most people look at TeslaFi. That only tells you the percentage of people with TeslaFi who have the update, of course, but at least gives you an idea. As of this writing, there's still more people on 24.4 than 28.2.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

here's the current look at Model 3 installs per Teslafi









and the S & X installs









without logging in, you can only see the combined on Teslafi and it does vary quite a bit between the rollout to the 3 and the S/X


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

I noticed on TeslaFi that this rollout seems to have stopped at only 30% of the reporting vehicles. The majority is still on 24.4, as I am. 28.3 seems to be picking up with a moderate rollout. 

Any idea why? Usually when a large rollout stops, all of those people are quickly updated to the newest software to get off the buggy one. 

Seems like a bit of an odd sequence here...


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## Skione65 (Apr 4, 2016)

Needsdecaf said:


> I noticed on TeslaFi that this rollout seems to have stopped at only 30% of the reporting vehicles. The majority is still on 24.4, as I am. 28.3 seems to be picking up with a moderate rollout.
> 
> Any idea why? Usually when a large rollout stops, all of those people are quickly updated to the newest software to get off the buggy one.
> 
> Seems like a bit of an odd sequence here...


Bug Fixes........

Ski


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

The last few releases, they seem to be splitting the fleet up between 2 main versions - so likely comparing results for what could be incorporated into the next release. seems that has become the normal since 2019.20.x or so.

Also looks like the 3s that have installed 2019.28.3 are either in europe, or have a vin around 80,000-120,000. - so maybe something they are looking for specific to a piece of hardware that was unique to the cars built last September.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

Ed Woodrick said:


> Haven't gotten anything in 26 days, OMG, the world is ending. 26 days is actually a pretty short time-frame when you look back at the updates for at least the last year that I've had my car. There are commonly spurts and dry spells, some being months long.


mine have averaged 14 days - with the longest wait being 48 days for 2019.5.15 and the quickest being 1 day for 2019.20.4.2. 
6 others came within a week of the prior. and within 12 days in June, 4 updates arrived.


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## bwilson4web (Mar 4, 2019)

JWardell said:


> Those of us in the Early Access Program and stuck on 2019.20.x for a while are receiving updates to 32.1 this evening, which sadly disables enhanced summon.
> I'm going to see if I can hold off on installing the update for a few days.


You pose an interesting question: How do we refuse a software update?

I checked the dashboard setting and we have "Standard" and "Advanced". When I clicked the "?", it sounds as if "Advanced" puts you further up the line. I quickly clicked back to "Standard."

So I'm wondering if I get prompted for an install time, I set the install time to very late in the day, 11:00 PM. Then when I return, change it to 23 hours after my arrival time. Late in the evening, I set the time again to 23 hours later.

The theory is if the install time is set 23 hours away, there is a window that may push the install into the next day. Like riding a tiger, it means daily visit to the car but . . .

Bob Wilson


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## Kizzy (Jul 25, 2016)

bwilson4web said:


> You pose an interesting question: How do we refuse a software update?
> 
> I checked the dashboard setting and we have "Standard" and "Advanced". When I clicked the "?", it sounds as if "Advanced" puts you further up the line. I quickly clicked back to "Standard."
> 
> ...


Isn't refusal as simple as not tapping "install"?

Or are you referring to a situation where you've ignored it long enough that you are no longer allowed to drive without installing the update? (Is this a thing? I think I remember someone suggesting it was.)


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## bwilson4web (Mar 4, 2019)

I don't know and was asking. I've only gone through 3-4 updates and simply accepted each one. But the AutoPilot reports suggests something is broke and I'd rather skip this one.

Bob Wilson


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## Kizzy (Jul 25, 2016)

bwilson4web said:


> I don't know and was asking. I've only gone through 3-4 updates and simply accepted each one. But the AutoPilot reports suggests something is broke and I'd rather skip this one.
> 
> Bob Wilson


Ah. Yes. Just close the install scheduling window on the car's screen. A yellow alarm clock should be present in your status bar should you change your mind.


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

bwilson4web said:


> You pose an interesting question: How do we refuse a software update?
> 
> I checked the dashboard setting and we have "Standard" and "Advanced". When I clicked the "?", it sounds as if "Advanced" puts you further up the line. I quickly clicked back to "Standard."
> 
> ...


Just ignore the update and close the dialog. As long as you can deal with doing so every day. No software update will install unless you allow it.

The Standard/Advanced setting still seems to not actually do anything yet.


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## msjulie (Feb 6, 2018)

bwilson4web said:


> You pose an interesting question: How do we refuse a software update?


Back when emergency lane avoidance kept turning back on, I refused that update - and to be sure it would not if I neglected to actively reject it, I "forgot" my home WiFi network. No updates then, unless critical == over cell

FYI best I could find


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## bwilson4web (Mar 4, 2019)

msjulie said:


> Back when emergency lane avoidance kept turning back on, I refused that update - and to be sure it would not if I neglected to actively reject it, I "forgot" my home WiFi network. No updates then, unless critical == over cell
> 
> FYI best I could find


It beats yelling "BUG FIX GET THIS <version> SH*T OUT OF MY D*MN CAR!"

Bob Wilson


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## TheeCatzMeow (Feb 8, 2019)

Could this be "THE ONE" (V10)!?!?!?!?


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## Thratem (Aug 1, 2017)

Nope, just bug fixes from 2019.32.1 (Model S 75D)


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## TheeCatzMeow (Feb 8, 2019)

........ one day ....... :joycat:


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## ibgeek (Aug 26, 2019)

TheeCatzMeow said:


> Could this be "THE ONE" (V10)!?!?!?!?


Elon stated earlier this week that he plans to do one more week of internal ring testing before releasing V10 to the larger early access users. (We think this is everyone with FSD) Then from there, out to the masses. 
Looks likely that V10 will be the last major update for HW 2.5 cars.

A note about the probable build number. If the schedule holds, V10 should be 2019.36 (or 37).x


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## TheeCatzMeow (Feb 8, 2019)

I was pretty sure it wouldn't be a point release... I'm just so excited for V10 I was hopeful. 

I agree it should be 2019.36 given recent trends. My guess is we'll start at 2019.36.1.XX. 
2019.36.1 because we know we were really close a couple weeks back and Elon noted then need to work on somethings. 
2019.36.1.XX cause we know from last week (listed by ibgeek above) that some final tweaks had to be made last week.


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## slacker775 (May 30, 2018)

ibgeek said:


> Looks likely that V10 will be the last major update for HW 2.5 cars.


Why would you think this? Even the 2012 Model S is getting updates (and perhaps even the original Roadster, I don't know anyone that has one but if you want to 'loan' me one for awhile, I'll take it ). HW 2.5 will still be getting updates for some time, just not all of fancy FSD/AP enhancements that HW3 is supposed to enable.


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

ibgeek said:


> Elon stated earlier this week that he plans to do one more week of internal ring testing before releasing V10 to the larger early access users. (We think this is everyone with FSD) Then from there, out to the masses.
> Looks likely that V10 will be the last major update for HW 2.5 cars.
> 
> A note about the probable build number. If the schedule holds, V10 should be 2019.36 (or 37).x


Sorry to be critical but I think this is wrong except for the part that they are still testing it. I don't believe everyone with FSD is early access. They said if you purchased before a certain date they would add you to early access but I see people complaining about that so I'm not sure that's even happened. There is no reason to believe V10 will be the last major update for HW2.5 cars. This is speculation but I believe autopilot updates will continue for HW2.5 as well. If you have any indication that's not true I'd like to know the source. This is important because people are thinking they need to upgrade to FSD to get future updates. Let's not start rumors based on no facts. I think Tesla will do the right thing and keep supporting autopilot updates on HW2.5. I'm talking about TACC, AutoSteer, NOA, Parking Assist, Summon. The idea that HW2.5 is at the limit of its capability from an autopilot standpoint is almost certainly wrong.


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## brur (Nov 15, 2018)

I don't know why anyone listens to Elon's expressions. He evidently is not in communication with Tesla's department heads. He is talking about how he sees things from a removed state. iows you might as well listen to me.


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## TheeCatzMeow (Feb 8, 2019)

M3OC Rules said:


> There is no reason to believe V10 will be the last major update for HW2.5 cars. This is speculation but I believe autopilot updates will continue for HW2.5 as well. If you have any indication that's not true I'd like to know the source.


I agree there are no hard facts about V10 being the last update to non-FSD. I do think "low computational" add-ons will be made to HW 2.5 and below but they are close to maxing CPU with current+Smart Summon+V10. But I'm pretty sure there will be very little space for major updates left. I'm sure there will be updates forever but just like 1.0 doesn't have many of the functions added in the last year many of the exciting/big updates will not be able to be passed down to 2.5 or lower. Remember, any future update for 2.5 or below need some storage and CPU even if they aren't massive, so they have to leave some free between future small things and "buffer capacity" (so they aren't maxing the CPU/GPU.)


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## Ze1000 (May 22, 2018)

I am pretty sure that the release week number for v10 is still not set, and also it can be a dot release, since it is being tested in alpha. Makes no sense to have v10 come from the same development branch as v9.
Anyway, Is this 32.2.1 just bug fixes? anyone has any screenshots of the release notes?


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

TheeCatzMeow said:


> I agree there are no hard facts about V10 being the last update to non-FSD. I do think "low computational" add-ons will be made to HW 2.5 and below but they are close to maxing CPU with current+Smart Summon+V10. But I'm pretty sure there will be very little space for major updates left. I'm sure there will be updates forever but just like 1.0 doesn't have many of the functions added in the last year many of the exciting/big updates will not be able to be passed down to 2.5 or lower. Remember, any future update for 2.5 or below need some storage and CPU even if they aren't massive, so they have to leave some free between future small things and "buffer capacity" (so they aren't maxing the CPU/GPU.)


I think I agree but just to clarify that you're talking about the CPU in the Autopilot ECU not the MCU(Media control unit):

Let's separate out autopilot from everything else. People are going to get the same updates for Hw2.5 as HW3. I'm thinking things like Netflix, video games, etc. I'm calling that major updates in V10. Updates involving the MCU will continue. Right?

Now autopilot is feature complete on HW2.5 once they add Advanced Summon. I think there are two questions, can the existing features be improved and will Tesla do it. If they can improve lane changes, cornering, phantom braking etc. you can argue whether those are major updates but they are important to some people who don't want to spend more to update the features they paid for. And quite frankly Elon told people not to wait for the HW3. Buy now. No reason not to he said.


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## TheeCatzMeow (Feb 8, 2019)

M3OC Rules said:


> Let's separate out autopilot from everything else.


I agree. And I think MCU will get updates indefinitely



M3OC Rules said:


> can the existing features be improved and will Tesla do it.


As for Autopilot features. I think HW 2.5 and less will get bug fixes and small tweaks that are deemed necessary for safety. But that's it.

As a reminder it was stated that 2.5 CPU was at 80% capacity in April. Since then we know of 2 AP updates. (These were updates to the neural nets, not major feature releases, which we have to assume used more CPU.) Plus we know we'll be adding Smart Summon. Hence why I'm pointing out 2.5 HW is basically maxed, there's no way they'll ever let it get to 95% for safety and one could argue 90%. I just think they're out of capacity to really do anymore than Smart Summon. I even question if they could add Smart Autopark at this point, to 2.5.


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## ibgeek (Aug 26, 2019)

slacker775 said:


> Why would you think this? Even the 2012 Model S is getting updates (and perhaps even the original Roadster, I don't know anyone that has one but if you want to 'loan' me one for awhile, I'll take it ). HW 2.5 will still be getting updates for some time, just not all of fancy FSD/AP enhancements that HW3 is supposed to enable.


I said last MAJOR update. As in an update with major features added. This is based on Elon's talk during autonomy day when he said the current 2.5 hardware was already at 80% processing capacity with V9. 
Doesn't seem like such a shocking statement to me. If you want to stay current, you should buy full self driving. 3K for future proofing your car doesn't seem like that much money at all. Unless you plan to only have the car for a couple years.


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## ibgeek (Aug 26, 2019)

M3OC Rules said:


> Sorry to be critical but I think this is wrong except for the part that they are still testing it. I don't believe everyone with FSD is early access. They said if you purchased before a certain date they would add you to early access but I see people complaining about that so I'm not sure that's even happened. There is no reason to believe V10 will be the last major update for HW2.5 cars. This is speculation but I believe autopilot updates will continue for HW2.5 as well. If you have any indication that's not true I'd like to know the source. This is important because people are thinking they need to upgrade to FSD to get future updates. Let's not start rumors based on no facts. I think Tesla will do the right thing and keep supporting autopilot updates on HW2.5. I'm talking about TACC, AutoSteer, NOA, Parking Assist, Summon. The idea that HW2.5 is at the limit of its capability from an autopilot standpoint is almost certainly wrong.


Admittedly there is some confusion to date about what Elon means by Early Access. But in a tweet he said that everyone who purchased FSD would be in early access.

I've already responded to my comment about V10 MAJOR UPDATE is the key. Sorry can't share my source.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

TheeCatzMeow said:


> I agree. And I think MCU will get updates indefinitely
> 
> As for Autopilot features. I think HW 2.5 and less will get bug fixes and small tweaks that are deemed necessary for safety. But that's it.
> 
> As a reminder it was stated that 2.5 CPU was at 80% capacity in April. Since then we know of 2 AP updates. (These were updates to the neural nets, not major feature releases, which we have to assume used more CPU.) Plus we know we'll be adding Smart Summon. Hence why I'm pointing out 2.5 HW is basically maxed, there's no way they'll ever let it get to 95% for safety and one could argue 90%. I just think they're out of capacity to really do anymore than Smart Summon. I even question if they could add Smart Autopark at this point, to 2.5.


80% of processing capacity, not storage, right? You're not Autoparking at the same time you're Summoning.

I agree that in the most computationally taxing situations that HW 2.5 can't take on much more. That likely means that HW 2.5 can never get to L3 on interstates, because it needs to do everything NOA is already doing _plus_ watch for corner cases that the driver can handle for L2 driver-assist cases. So, for example, HW 2.5 might not be able to handle pothole detection at highway speeds.

But that doesn't mean there can't be more features, some of them significant.

For example, one thing I think might happen eventually is more customizability to AP and NOA behavior. Right now, there's only a couple of levers: the frequency of lane changes (Mad Max, etc.), the following distance, and the speed relative to the limit. I'd guess that list might expand. More excitingly, it would be nice (and probably compatible with HW 2.5) if the car _learned_ how its particular driver drives, and modified its NN accordingly (within safety limits). Or maybe the NN could change its behavior based on geography, acknowledging that Los Angeles drivers have different etiquette than New York drivers.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

I also think there's an aspect of Musk's personality that most people aren't considering: he doesn't like it when the people with his products don't have the big advances. He's certainly willing to let stuff that's still wonky be used by a subset of owners, but once something is pretty solid then he wants everyone to have it. Witness, for example, AP being standard on all new Teslas. And he certainly likes to push out safety features (lane departure warnings and such) to everyone.

That means he'll either deliver stuff to HW 2.5 when he can, or he'll try to make it easy to update to HW 3.0 once he's shaken most of the money he can from people willing to pay.

Oh, any my obligatory reminder: HW 3.0 and FSD are different things. Many people already have HW 3.0 without having the FSD option. HW 3.0 will be necessary for L4 and L5 autonomy, sure. But HW 3.0 may well also improve plain-vanilla AP for people who don't purchase the software upgrade called "FSD."


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## TheeCatzMeow (Feb 8, 2019)

DocScott said:


> not storage, right?


 Agree


DocScott said:


> Autoparking at the same time you're Summoning


 This is not how NN work. A NN is basically a lot of decision trees. each major function would be its own tree at the top. (Am I maintaining a lane, am I turning left, am I Smart Summoning, am I Autoparking. it is possible for the NN to reuse known scenario from other parts of the tree but Autopark isn't as simple as the opposite direction as Smart Summon Autopark needs 3D parking routines, it needs to read signs which will probably start with a "known list" but eventually have to grow to natural language understanding of signs. I will give you there's probably the ability to fit a "dumb Autopark" in the NN space that's left but certainly not Smart Autopark. And as we saw with what was Enhanced Summon, now Smart Summon... They just aren't going to release the crappy version. 


DocScott said:


> _plus_ watch for corner cases


 agree


DocScott said:


> handle pothole detection


 agree, won't fit


DocScott said:


> customizability to AP and NOA behavior


 this actually is easy and i wouldn't call this a major update. This would just require options on the screen and variablizing the response in from the NN to the car action. Remember the NN's job is to understand the what action should be taken. Then the car executes. It is easy to add to the code "take 10% more, or 10% less of that action be cause of setting_number_12."


DocScott said:


> _learned_ how its particular driver drives


 There are two ways to implement this: 
1) Tesla builds multiple NN version. Your car's system is reading and recording your actions to internal storage (which they are a bit low on) then when not in use load the data to Tesla. Tesla runs the numbers and says "this user would like NN number 25 better" then send it as a firmware update option to your car. This I think is technically doable, but right now we're just trying to build NN number 1 so that would be a while. 
2) I think this is what you're thinking of, which is as you have "experiences" in the car it would update the NN... weighting it more and more towards things it thinks you enjoyed. Sadly this is not a computational possibly for the vehicle. The processing power needed for a NN this size is (total guess) 1,000s of times more powerful than what's in the car now. Not to mention I doubt Tesla would allow this cause maybe you're actually a bad driver and over time you'll teach the NN bad things... this would make the system more risky and at some point less safe. They monitor the heck out of safety.


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## TheeCatzMeow (Feb 8, 2019)

DocScott said:


> But HW 3.0 may well also improve plain-vanilla AP for people who don't purchase the software upgrade called "FSD."


10000% agree


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

TheeCatzMeow said:


> This is not how NN work. A NN is basically a lot of decision trees. each major function would be its own tree at the top. (Am I maintaining a lane, am I turning left, am I Smart Summoning, am I Autoparking. it is possible for the NN to reuse known scenario from other parts of the tree but Autopark isn't as simple as the opposite direction as Smart Summon Autopark needs 3D parking routines, it needs to read signs which will probably start with a "known list" but eventually have to grow to natural language understanding of signs. I will give you there's probably the ability to fit a "dumb Autopark" in the NN space that's left but certainly not Smart Autopark.


greentheonly has hacked a Model S in order to extract the data that the autopilot system produces. Basically, it seems to be performing object detection. It finds lane lines, drivable road surface, other cars, various signs, traffic lights, etc.

As far as actions like "Am I maintaining a lane, am I turning left, am I Smart Summoning, am I Autoparking", I believe that is handled completely outside of the NN.


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

ibgeek said:


> I said last MAJOR update. As in an update with major features added. This is based on Elon's talk during autonomy day when he said the current 2.5 hardware was already at 80% processing capacity with V9.
> Doesn't seem like such a shocking statement to me. If you want to stay current, you should buy full self driving. 3K for future proofing your car doesn't seem like that much money at all. Unless you plan to only have the car for a couple years.


You're assuming that processing capacity is the limit to improving EAP features. Elon also said that it wasn't that they couldn't do more but that it was getting to be more labor-intensive. That was all referring to getting to level 4. Elon also said there was no reason to wait for HW3. This is my biggest beef. People shouldn't have to pay $3k for significant improvement to the features they paid assuming that happens only on HW3. Especially since they promised future-proofing in the first place. If I pay $3k now for features that may come in 2020, then do I have to pay another $3k in 2021 to future proof for features coming in 2022 when HW4 comes out? It's fine if they want to stop developing on HW2.5 but they need to upgrade at least those people that they told not to wait for HW3 after they announced it. Also prepaying for a bunch of speculation is questionable.


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## Scott Wilcox (Dec 8, 2016)

I take everything Elon tweets with a grain of salt. So when he said all people who bought FSD at the time they bought their car would get into t he EAP I thought it would be EAP lite at best. Then someone either Tesla or Elon said that the people who paid more and bought FSD first would get updates for their cars first for their hardware. I have two people who I referred who did not buy FSD with their cars and were able to get FSD during the sale. One of my referrals has the exact same car as I do even down to the color. The only difference is he bought FSD during the sale and I bought FSD with my car. Now he gets updates 2-5 days before I do. My other referral has the stealth P3 and also bought FSD when Tesla had the sale and he also gets his updates 2-5 days before I do.

Tesla said it must be my Wi-Fi connection. I checked my speeds on my browser in my car and I get between 86-and 108 mbps. That speed is way faster than the two people I referred. Does anyone who paid full price for FSD get the updates in the first round of updates?


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## PaulT (Aug 22, 2018)

A co-worker of mine gets minor updates and we do not, but the major updates are about the same time.

We bought FSD before taking possession of car. 

Co-worker used my referral, got car after us and bought FSD when it was on sale after his purchase. 

We both have advanced updates selected. Honestly I am glad we don't get the minor updates. I hear they are buggy. At first I thought it was cool to get latest and greatest, but some of the bugs have really disappointed/worried passengers...not a good thing... If there was a way to switch between a test/beta/EAP version and asolid one, that would be amazing!


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## victor (Jun 24, 2016)

We are sorry.


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## Hugh_Jassol (Jan 31, 2019)

FYI... they said V10 would be prioritized to FSD purchasers, that has not been rolled out yet - it's still in EAP


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

Scott Wilcox said:


> Does anyone who paid full price for FSD get the updates in the first round of updates?


Yes and no. Yes for one car (at least for last handful of updates) but other car seems to be more on the mass roll out schedule. Actually, my initial answer would be no and no but I sent a message to Tesla about it. Never heard anything, but a few weeks later one car did start getting them with an earlier timing.

Just curious, did you get the email saying you would get priority with the firmware updates? It didn't differentiate between at the time of car purchase vs after, but as purchasing FSD before March 2019.....
"As a customer who purchased Full Self-Driving before March 2019, you're invited to be among the first to receive the latest software updates for your car based on your configuration and region."


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

PaulT said:


> We both have advanced updates selected. Honestly I am glad we don't get the minor updates. I hear they are buggy. At first I thought it was cool to get latest and greatest, but some of the bugs have really disappointed/worried passengers...not a good thing... If there was a way to switch between a test/beta/EAP version and asolid one, that would be amazing!


Then why do you have Advanced selected?


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

Hugh_Jassol said:


> FYI... they said V10 would be prioritized to FSD purchasers, that has not been rolled out yet - it's still in EAP


Where did you hear that? This is the only thing I know that Elon has said about FSD purchasers recently. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1172920449929363456


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## PaulT (Aug 22, 2018)

iChris93 said:


> Then why do you have Advanced selected?


Because it doesn't actually do anything 

If it actually does... I have been going back and forth on turning off. Like I said, I like getting the latest, but don't like discouraging friends and co-workers from the tech because bugs. It is not a clear cut decision...


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## Tchris (Nov 22, 2017)

I purchased FSD up front and at full price. I have advanced updates selected. Updates seem to be a crap shoot for me. Sometimes I get them early and sometimes late.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

I think "Advanced" is either there as a placebo or it is working (just not as we would hope).

There are now so many variations in configuration with the cars and their autonomous hardware 1, 2, 2.5, 3 ("FSD") / premium, partial premium, standard, etc. that they probably take subsets of each and its the luck of the draw from there.


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## ibgeek (Aug 26, 2019)

Scott Wilcox said:


> I take everything Elon tweets with a grain of salt. So when he said all people who bought FSD at the time they bought their car would get into t he EAP I thought it would be EAP lite at best. Then someone either Tesla or Elon said that the people who paid more and bought FSD first would get updates for their cars first for their hardware. I have two people who I referred who did not buy FSD with their cars and were able to get FSD during the sale. One of my referrals has the exact same car as I do even down to the color. The only difference is he bought FSD during the sale and I bought FSD with my car. Now he gets updates 2-5 days before I do. My other referral has the stealth P3 and also bought FSD when Tesla had the sale and he also gets his updates 2-5 days before I do.
> 
> Tesla said it must be my Wi-Fi connection. I checked my speeds on my browser in my car and I get between 86-and 108 mbps. That speed is way faster than the two people I referred. Does anyone who paid full price for FSD get the updates in the first round of updates?


While updates can have something to do with wifi strength, that's not the only variable that determines update priority.

There is geographical location, Model, Model year, current software version... The list is a long one. And Tesla likes to mix it up. Sometimes I get my update within a day or two of it's release. Sometimes it seems that I'm the last to get it. The important part here is that you will get the update. Nobody likes to wait. Especially when you see that others are already getting the update. But often this is a blessing. 
Every time I've been the last to get the update, I've been able to skip revisions that caused issues for others. In other words, Patience is rewarded. Enjoy the journey, the destination is inevitable.


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## tr4km0n (Sep 23, 2019)

what's the typical delay between early access and general public? ie. how long can the rest of us expect to wait?


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## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

tr4km0n said:


> what's the typical delay between early access and general public? ie. how long can the rest of us expect to wait?


There isn't a typical timeframe. When they've squashed all the bugs they'll release it.

I'm pretty sure, not certain so someone can correct, but they'll probably push out another release as the final one. Those that are not in early access won't be getting this build, but the final v10 will be a new build itself.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

tr4km0n said:


> what's the typical delay between early access and general public? ie. how long can the rest of us expect to wait?


v10 beta features started showing up for testing this spring, so 6-9 months-ish


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## tr4km0n (Sep 23, 2019)

airj1012 said:


> There isn't a typical timeframe. When they've squashed all the bugs they'll release it.
> 
> I'm pretty sure, not certain so someone can correct, but they'll probably push out another release as the final one. Those that are not in early access won't be getting this build, but the final v10 will be a new build itself.


I'm hoping for 2-3 weeks before we start seeing this pushed in wide release.


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## Rick Steinwand (May 19, 2018)

I hope this fixes the problems with Slacker. Drove for 8 hours last Friday with 12.2 and lots of songs that didn't finish and just hung. Tried the two finger salute and no change.


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## sduck (Nov 23, 2017)

Here comes the slew of "I hope this fixes problem X" posts.


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## skygraff (Jun 2, 2017)

I hope this fixes the problem of people reporting problems that haven't been fixed or have resurfaced after other problems have been fixed.

Whatever they do, I hope they don't unfix Dog Mode because Bob Barker wouldn't be happy (Mr. Gilmore) and that's one long-mic-having alpha you don't wanna mess with.


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## ibgeek (Aug 26, 2019)

I hope that people who are having problems report them to Tesla support rather than posting them in a forum that no Tesla employee will ever see.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

ibgeek said:


> I hope that people who are having problems report them to Tesla support rather than posting them in a forum that no Tesla employee will ever see.


Report to Tesla _and_ post to the forum.

Reporting to Tesla helps get the problem solved. But posting does a number of other things:

--Allows people who have not yet accepted the update to decide whether they want to hold off

--Warns people who have accepted the update of problems to look out for

--Lets people know if a problem they're experiencing is common, and thus likely to be fixed by a future firmware update, or uncommon, thus potentially requiring Tesla service to fix

--Helps people to decide whether to, e.g., pony up for FSD

--Helps provide a snapshot of Tesla issues, which aids in being an effective and informed ambassador for the brand


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## PaulT (Aug 22, 2018)

I imagine that Tesla is looking at all forums, would be pretty foolish for such a progressive tech company if they didn’t. ....I don’t think Tesla is foolish


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

PaulT said:


> I imagine that Tesla is looking at all forums, would be pretty foolish for such a progressive tech company if they didn't. ....I don't think Tesla is foolish


There are just too many posts across all the various Tesla forums, plus #Tesla posts on twitter, and the Tesla reddit page, etc., and the majority of content on all of them is stuff other than problem reports.


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## ibgeek (Aug 26, 2019)

PaulT said:


> I imagine that Tesla is looking at all forums, would be pretty foolish for such a progressive tech company if they didn't. ....I don't think Tesla is foolish


I have it on very good authority that they are not. In fact they are instructed not to. Would be like going to Facebook for the national news. You can't really be sure that the information in a forum is true or properly described.

If something is reported to them directly, they address it. Otherwise it falls under no news is good news.

That said I do believe there is value in an open forum for us owners as long as we do not depend on the forum to fix things that only Tesla can fix.


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## PaulT (Aug 22, 2018)

Why in the world are they still fiddling around with week “32” software build!!!


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

PaulT said:


> Why in the world are they still fiddling around with week "32" software build!!!


Squash the bugs before moving forward!


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## PaulT (Aug 22, 2018)

I know, I am just complaining. This is a very long span on weekly build codes. It is getting me excited for the next jump


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## JustTheTip (Jun 7, 2018)

iChris93 said:


> Squash the bugs before moving forward!


Except that's not what actually happens. 😂


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

We may see this number another time or two - until we get a "Feature Complete" FSD release. That is when we'll get the next week number cut. Just a guess on my part.


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## ToyLover (Aug 1, 2019)

I've been expecting the V10 software update to arrive for my new Model 3, but so far all I can find is the text that says it will be downloaded automatically when it's ready to do so for my car. But it's almost November, and I'm wondering if I've missed the boat somehow. Shouldn't I have it by now?


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## Love (Sep 13, 2017)

ToyLover said:


> I've been expecting the V10 software update to arrive for my new Model 3, but so far all I can find is the text that says it will be downloaded automatically when it's ready to do so for my car. But it's almost November, and I'm wondering if I've missed the boat somehow. Shouldn't I have it by now?


I do believe most people have gotten it. Do you mind sharing what version you're on? If it's an older one, it could be that there's a minor issue that will require Tesla service to help out. An easy fix that many here have had to do... I believe you even schedule it right through the app. (I've not had this occur to me so can't speak to that). Keep us posted!


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

If you schedule service with the app, and select software update as your reason for service, then Tesla with update you remotely if you are indeed overdue.


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## John Di Cecco (Sep 25, 2017)

Will not hurt to power off car. Wait 3 min before touching anything. When done, reboit for good measure. 1 chance in a 100 that fixes it


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## ajl710 (Mar 1, 2019)

ToyLover said:


> I've been expecting the V10 software update to arrive for my new Model 3, but so far all I can find is the text that says it will be downloaded automatically when it's ready to do so for my car. But it's almost November, and I'm wondering if I've missed the boat somehow. Shouldn't I have it by now?


Have you received any software updates since getting the car? I had a similar issue for the first 4 months I had mine. I would not get software updates unless I called up and requested it be pushed. Eventually one of the techs realized that the car was never set as "delivered" in Tesla's system so it was not receiving automatic OTA updates even though everything else was already registered to me and working fine. I did also have free supercharging during that time period and always wondered why I wasn't being billed. 😁


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

ToyLover said:


> I've been expecting the V10 software update to arrive for my new Model 3, but so far all I can find is the text that says it will be downloaded automatically when it's ready to do so for my car. But it's almost November, and I'm wondering if I've missed the boat somehow. Shouldn't I have it by now?


Have you connected the car to Wifi? It won't download unless you do.


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## Perscitus (Feb 23, 2017)

The software package team is taking their time after the first few v10 revisions. 2019.36.x puts us at builds cut in September... and still so few cars in the fleet have this installed or pending an install.

Bring on some cutting edge 2019.44.x or bleeding edge 2019.45.x proper fast ring action.

Skip the casual bloatware - practical features, optimizations, bug fixes and enhancements only. 
Wishful thinking, I know.


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## PaulT (Aug 22, 2018)

Sad it isn’t pushing out fully yet....


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## airbusav8r (Feb 24, 2019)

It is; have patience. It is not even 9AM PST. Their infrastructure bill would be a fortune if they opened the gates to all cars concurrently. Think what would happen if you had a little web site and one morning it was posted on a blog, your traffic of 10 concurrent/simultaneous users just went to 1000; boom your server crashed as it can’t handle the requests. We used to call this the “slashdot effect.” Each binary (update) is fairly large depending on how many releases you are behind. I only know of one company that simply rocks at this, and highly distributed event-sourcing. Microsoft’s Azure/Xbox Live team; they can handle 50M simultaneous downloads of 50gigabyte video games (two 4K movies on AppleTV, etc...) whilst keeping their entire real-time gaming system alive. They own all of this infrastructure; Tesla pays AWS (Amazon Web Services), they are learning but have a long way to go as their challenge is similar to telecom; highly distributed nodes around the globe (Erlang for the win!).

These are basically rolling deployments, they happen based off of Zones/Regions, as one region becomes saturated they (their automated clusters) will start distributing traffic to different regions. The second aspect is your UUID (unique user id) mapped to your vin and settings. FSD is in a priority queue now.

So basically; just hang around and let the good times flow. It will make it to you, open your app and check on your vehicle simply to ensure it is receiving pings and your good.


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## PaulT (Aug 22, 2018)

airbusav8r said:


> It is; have patience. It is not even 9AM PST. Their infrastructure bill would be a fortune if they opened the gates to all cars, each binary is fairly large depending on how many releases you are behind.
> 
> These are basically rolling deployments, they happen based off of Zones/Regions, as one region becomes saturated they (their automated clusters) will start distributing traffic to different regions. The second aspect is your UUID (unique user id) mapped to your vin and settings. FSD is in a priority queue now.
> 
> So basically; just hang around and let the good times flow. It will make it to you, open your app and check on your vehicle simply to ensure it is receiving pings and your good.


i know I need to be more patient... just thought being first in line with a Model3 reservation in 2016 and purchasing FSD up front would have made us a little higher priority for things... guess not.


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## airbusav8r (Feb 24, 2019)

PaulT said:


> i know I need to be more patient... just thought being first in line with a Model3 reservation in 2016 and purchasing FSD up front would have made us a little higher priority for things... guess not.


Haha I know; reason and tech aside, it's akin to childhood anticipation of a holiday morning!


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## Rick Steinwand (May 19, 2018)

PaulT said:


> i know I need to be more patient... just thought being first in line with a Model3 reservation in 2016 and purchasing FSD up front would have made us a little higher priority for things... guess not.


I suspect the highest priority now is to upgrade everyone who got that nasty 36.1 update.


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## ibgeek (Aug 26, 2019)

PaulT said:


> i know I need to be more patient... just thought being first in line with a Model3 reservation in 2016 and purchasing FSD up front would have made us a little higher priority for things... guess not.


No promises, but I have seen some instances where shutting off your car (until you hear the super bottle burp) would initiate an update on restart. Worked 3 times in a row for me but still could have been coincidence.


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## TheeCatzMeow (Feb 8, 2019)

FYI to all. I noticed on teslafi that many had gotten 2019.36.2.1 I've been on 2019.36.1 since the first reported day. I thought it was weird that others were coming from builds before 2019.36.1 which seemed odd with the bugs that I wouldn't have gotten the update. I went into the car and went to the Software screen (which as of a few updates ago forces a check for updates) and immediately the update became available for me.


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## Rick Steinwand (May 19, 2018)

TheeCatzMeow said:


> I went into the car and went to the Software screen (which as of a few updates ago forces a check for updates) and immediately the update became available for me.


I'm not going to fall for that. It's nice and warm in the house. I can wait.


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## FF35 (Jul 13, 2018)

Rick Steinwand said:


> I'm not going to fall for that. It's nice and warm in the house. I can wait.


That has never worked for me.


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## motocoder (Sep 16, 2019)

ibgeek said:


> No promises, but I have seen some instances where shutting off your car (until you hear the super bottle burp) would initiate an update on restart. Worked 3 times in a row for me but still could have been coincidence.


How do you actually do that? I found some instructions online that mentioned an option in the Service menu, but I don't have any such option.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

motocoder said:


> How do you actually do that? I found some instructions online that mentioned an option in the Service menu, but I don't have any such option.


its under the "safety & security" menu, not "service".


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## motocoder (Sep 16, 2019)

MelindaV said:


> its under the "safety & security" menu, not "service".


Thank you!


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## motocoder (Sep 16, 2019)

PaulT said:


> Sad it isn't pushing out fully yet....


Seems to be on a pause today (Sunday). I think the handful of updates we're seeing on TeslaFi today are people who got the update notification yesterday but are just getting around to installing it today.


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## ibgeek (Aug 26, 2019)

motocoder said:


> Seems to be on a pause today (Sunday). I think the handful of updates we're seeing on TeslaFi today are people who got the update notification yesterday but are just getting around to installing it today.


Yeah, I smell another revision coming. With these more complex updates I think its safe to expect a few false starts. They have a fairly large sample of users on this latest build so thats good for finding the less obvious bugs. I'm bummed too but the truth is when we get our update it will be a better experience for the wait.


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## PaulT (Aug 22, 2018)

I must say, this is a very very slow rollout...


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

PaulT said:


> I must say, this is a very very slow rollout...


Keep in mind it contains power adjustments, driving dynamic changes, and charging changes.


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## NEO (Jun 28, 2017)

I got my Model 3 to update by going to the software tab and letting it check for the update. Love it


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## motocoder (Sep 16, 2019)

So much for slow rollouts. Release the hounds!


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

We were driving from Ann Arbor MI back to Pittsburgh yesterday. My son asked me to turn on the hot spot on my phone so he could do some homework on his laptop.

Then I stopped to supercharge. My Tesla connected to the hotspot too, and decided that this would be an awesome time to download a new software update.


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## Mike (Apr 4, 2016)

My car is telling me there is the 36.2.1 update.....and it has been saying "Connect to Wi-Fi" to download.

My car has been connected to its usual Wi-Fi in my garage....I've even done a full power down plus the twin scroll reset, but all I get is this:










I know the Wi-Fi is good because:

a). I don't have data on my phone but I'm able to control the car from the app, and

b). The Wi-Fi signal strength icon in the car is at its usual two arcs.

Anyone else ever have this issue and, if so, is the resolution simply to contact Tesla? Thanks.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

Mike said:


> I know the Wi-Fi is good because:
> 
> a). I don't have data on my phone but I'm able to control the car from the app, and
> 
> ...


before contacting Tesla, I'd suggest to power down your router and then reconnect the car to the wifi and see if that makes a difference. Last time mine did something similar, the car appeared to have a wifi connection, but my wifi extender was offline and it wasnt actually connected to the outside world. so the car was indeed connected to the wifi, the wifi wasnt connected to anything useful.


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## Mike (Apr 4, 2016)

MelindaV said:


> before contacting Tesla, I'd suggest to power down your router and then reconnect the car to the wifi and see if that makes a difference. Last time mine did something similar, the car appeared to have a wifi connection, but my wifi extender was offline and it wasnt actually connected to the outside world. so the car was indeed connected to the wifi, the wifi wasnt connected to anything useful.


I contacted Tesla, they repushed the update and my car is now installing it.

Can't wait for the one pedal driving


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## JimmT (Aug 1, 2017)

Mike said:


> My car is telling me there is the 36.2.1 update.....and it has been saying "Connect to Wi-Fi" to download.
> 
> My car has been connected to its usual Wi-Fi in my garage....I've even done a full power down plus the twin scroll reset, but all I get is this:
> 
> ...


I experienced the same thing tonight and fixed it by switching from Advanced to Standard and back again for Software Updates. When I did that, the update bar started moving and I got the prompt for an update a little while later.


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## Drago (Jun 3, 2017)

Mike said:


> I contacted Tesla, they repushed the update and my car is now installing it.
> 
> Can't wait for the one pedal driving


How do you contact Tesla for these non-emergency things? The only phone number I'm able to find is the emergency road assistance ... having the same issue that you had


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## Mike (Apr 4, 2016)

Drago said:


> How do you contact Tesla for these non-emergency things? The only phone number I'm able to find is the emergency road assistance ... having the same issue that you had


17 months ago I went to the Lawrence Avenue SC and introduced myself with whoever was working the servicing desk that day.

Since that time, I have been able to send an email to Tesla Lawrence and have gotten satisfaction, usually within 24 hours.

One caveat: I'm living with a number of very minor items that I inform Tesla Lawrence as they pop up so there is a record.

I have also informed them of various DIY fixes I have employed so that they can pass on lessons learned to Tesla corporate.

When I decide to go in for something like the V3.0 hardware upgrade, I'll piggy back the other nit noid stuff at that time.

The genaric email address is [email protected] and if you use some key words in the subject line including your VIN, someone should read your executive summary of your issue and reach out to you.

As always, YMMV


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## Mike (Apr 4, 2016)

AutopilotFan said:


> When you're in the car, I thought the phone talked to the car via Bluetooth. So when you're that close, you may not be using wifi on the phone. I hope resetting the router fixes your issue!


It was no issue at my end.

Tesla re-pushed the update and all was well after the second re-push.

Bluetooth will only let me control certain things like honk the horn, open the frunk, etc.

If I'm in a parking lot somewhere, without any data plan, I cannot do anything such as turn on the HVAC, etc.


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## PiperPaul (Oct 31, 2018)

This is a sidebar to this thread, and is in response to all those, myself included, who wait and wait for an software/firmware update for their M3.

I've tried all manner of schemes - calling my Service Centre, switching from LTE to WiFi, parking near random routers, installing a WiFi extender in the garage, car system resets, incantations, playing my pipes near the car, not playing my pipes - but last night had true success by..... READING THIS THREAD!

So this is a *Thank* *You* to all the brave early adopters who enlighten us wannabes with your reveals, tests, and speculation, and encourage us to wish real hard and click our heels (tho not to be in Kansas (no offense meant)).

Now if the weather would improve I could actually try out the update.


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## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

Mike said:


> I contacted Tesla, they repushed the update and my car is now installing it.
> 
> Can't wait for the one pedal driving


Out of curiosity, who did you contact and how did you contact them? I tried email support and I was told to schedule and appointment with the app. I tried phoning support but I got nowhere. I ended up driving to my local service center which is one hour away and I would like to avoid this in the future if I ever have that need again.


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## Frully (Aug 30, 2018)

FrancoisP said:


> Out of curiosity, who did you contact and how did you contact them? I tried email support and I was told to schedule and appointment with the app. I tried phoning support but I got nowhere. I ended up driving to my local service center which is one hour away and I would like to avoid this in the future if I ever have that need again.


I've always had luck getting through with roadside assistance - I consider a stuck firmware update on my extremely expensive car an emergency.  They've been super helpful, remote in/patch things, then voila. Don't bug them for "when will I get a firmware update"...but they will help fix anything else software related.


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## PiperPaul (Oct 31, 2018)

PiperPaul said:


> This is a sidebar to this thread, and is in response to all those, myself included, who wait and wait for an software/firmware update for their M3.
> 
> I've tried all manner of schemes - calling my Service Centre, switching from LTE to WiFi, parking near random routers, installing a WiFi extender in the garage, car system resets, incantations, playing my pipes near the car, not playing my pipes - but last night had true success by..... READING THIS THREAD!
> 
> ...


To elaborate on my "schemes" to get updates:
When I bought, I told my Delivery Advisor there was no Wi-Fi generally available to me for updates in our rural area, and was told LTE would work fine. And it did until the Service Centre Manager told me that Telsa couldn't provide me updates any more until I connected the car to Wi-Fi (implying a cost control measure). In other words, I was now paying for updates since our "Wi-Fi" is really expensive cell data to our mobile hub. (I see in the newest version of the Owner's Manual that LTE updates require "premium connectivity" whatever that is penmouth.

However; the release notes for 2019.36.2.1 indicate I can watch Netflix in the car *via LTE*!!
*I sure hope that Netflix is paying for that cell data if Tesla can't afford software updates via LTE. :rage:*


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## tivoboy (Mar 24, 2017)

We're into December and getting a 40 something release? Shouldn't it be higher?


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## Chris350 (Aug 8, 2017)

tivoboy said:


> We're into December and getting a 40 something release? Shouldn't it be higher?


Should be around 48 something....

But hell..... Doesn't even seem like they can get 40 rolled out....

It appears to have started... then stopped.... then started and now almost dead...


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## ibgeek (Aug 26, 2019)

Software happens at he pace for which it happens. That said it is fairly normal for a new week build to do a smaller sample, pause, get patched and then do another sample before going to the masses. 
Please keep in mind that we are still early in to V10. On top of that we are in the beginning of code divergence as HW3 slowly separates itself from HW2.5 and lower. So it's understandable that things are progressing slower. 

A lot of new code is being added to shadow mode with the week 40 build.


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