# The left-foot braking thread



## Klaus-rf

Mesprit87 said:


> Ok, got it, the foot is already busy
> So we might need to learn two foot driving for those situations, which is even more confusing .


 I wouldn't call two-foot driving confusing - it's more an advanced technique, which requires training and practice. After all when using a manual clutch-type gearbox we're using two feet.


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## Jason Krellner

Klaus-rf said:


> I wouldn't call two-foot driving confusing - it's more an advanced technique, which requires training and practice. After all when using a manual clutch-type gearbox we're using two feet.


Two foot driving on a car with only two pedals is fundamentally wrong and a sign that the "driver" never actually learned to drive properly. I'm sorry if that offends anyone; it is just my personal opinion.


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## garsh

Jason Krellner said:


> Two foot driving on a car with only two pedals is fundamentally wrong


That's an outdated concept. Two-foot driving is now the accepted practice in all race cars without a clutch pedal. It results in faster reaction times since you don't have to move your foot from one pedal to another. But it's difficult to change old habits, and I don't feel like trying to develop that skill at this point in my life.


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## Needsdecaf

garsh said:


> That's an outdated concept. Two-foot driving is now the accepted practice in all race cars without a clutch pedal. It results in faster reaction times since you don't have to move your foot from one pedal to another. But it's difficult to change old habits, and I don't feel like trying to develop that skill at this point in my life.


Yup.

In fact, not only is accepted, but it's required. Many formula and prototype style race cars which have the seat in a semi-reclined state with the driver's feet above their hips are designed to where the steering column physically prevents the same foot being used on the gas and the brake. So left foot braking is required.

/Tangent.


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## SimonMatthews

Needsdecaf said:


> Yup.
> 
> In fact, not only is accepted, but it's required. Many formula and prototype style race cars which have the seat in a semi-reclined state with the driver's feet above their hips are designed to where the steering column physically prevents the same foot being used on the gas and the brake. So left foot braking is required.
> 
> /Tangent.


Go to your local indoor go-cart circuit and you will be required to do left-foot braking.


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## StromTrooperM3

Needsdecaf said:


> Many formula and prototype style race cars


A Tesla is neither. No one driving a Tesla is decelerating from triple digit speeds upon every corner they are entering. Let's try to be realistic here

Right tool for the right job. Driving at the speed limit on city streets does not require 2 foot pedal manipulation


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## Jason Krellner

garsh said:


> That's an outdated concept. Two-foot driving is now the accepted practice in all race cars without a clutch pedal. It results in faster reaction times since you don't have to move your foot from one pedal to another. But it's difficult to change old habits, and I don't feel like trying to develop that skill at this point in my life.





Needsdecaf said:


> In fact, not only is accepted, but it's required. Many formula and prototype style race cars which have the seat in a semi-reclined state with the driver's feet above their hips are designed to where the steering column physically prevents the same foot being used on the gas and the brake. So left foot braking is required./Tangent.





SimonMatthews said:


> Go to your local indoor go-cart circuit and you will be required to do left-foot braking.


Last I checked, we're driving sedans designed to be driven on regular roads. I don't need to drive like a race car driver (though I try to attain high speeds quite often).



Klaus-rf said:


> I'd say you haven't updated your driving skills in a very long time as that information is decades outdated.


Proof? And why, then, are both the accelerator and brake pedals still on the right side? I'd believe you if the brake pedal had been moved leftward.


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## NJturtlePower

StromTrooperM3 said:


> A Tesla is neither. No one driving a Tesla is decelerating from triple digit speeds upon every corner they are entering. Let's try to be realistic here
> 
> Right tool for the right job. Driving at the speed limit on city streets does not require 2 foot pedal manipulation


You sure about that?  #holdmybeer


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## Needsdecaf

Jason Krellner said:


> Last I checked, we're driving sedans designed to be driven on regular roads. I don't need to drive like a race car driver (though I try to attain high speeds quite often).
> .





StromTrooperM3 said:


> A Tesla is neither. No one driving a Tesla is decelerating from triple digit speeds upon every corner they are entering. Let's try to be realistic here
> 
> Right tool for the right job. Driving at the speed limit on city streets does not require 2 foot pedal manipulation


Look, you guys drive however you want. I don't left foot brake, as I still own a manual car and need to heel-toe, plus after driving for 30 years, it would be tough to learn. So drive however you feel comfortable. No one is suggesting that left foot braking is necessary.

But please don't try to put down someone who is left foot braking as someone who never learned to drive correctly. Because if you don't drive a manual, and you are GOOD at left foot braking, your'e actually at an advantage of being able to brake much more quickly than shifting your foot. And I would be willing to bet, much smoother in a car that doesn't have regen / one pedal driving. That's the point that I (and I believe others) were trying to make. There's NOTHING wrong with left foot braking on the street.


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## GDN

So - no more right foot/left foot, one foot/two feet posts in this thread. A few of them belong as it talked about regen and how to drive the car, then many went off topic. We don't really have the time to stop and review them all and decide which should be moved, that hacks a few people off anyway. If another mod still moves some of them beware as they may move, I plan on leaving them. Going forward if the post is about left foot/right foot driving and doesn't tie in very tighly with regen and this SW release (vs preference and opinion) it may just as easily be deleted as moved (that takes a lot more time.)

Please keep the threads on topic. The one foot/two feet conversation can be legit if kept civil, but not in this thread. Someone start it elsewhere if you want to discuss it.


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## garsh

Needsdecaf said:


> There's NOTHING wrong with left foot braking on the street.


Agreed, with one caveat:

People who actually rest their left foot on the brake pedal such that their brake lights are ALWAYS on should have their license revoked. 

@GDN, Ok, sorry. I'll see if I can move these posts into a dedicated thread.


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## Jason Krellner

Needsdecaf said:


> Look, you guys drive however you want. I don't left foot brake, as I still own a manual car and need to heel-toe, plus after driving for 30 years, it would be tough to learn. So drive however you feel comfortable. No one is suggesting that left foot braking is necessary.
> 
> But please don't try to put down someone who is left foot braking as someone who never learned to drive correctly. Because if you don't drive a manual, and you are GOOD at left foot braking, your'e actually at an advantage of being able to brake much more quickly than shifting your foot. And I would be willing to bet, much smoother in a car that doesn't have regen / one pedal driving. That's the point that I (and I believe others) were trying to make. There's NOTHING wrong with left foot braking on the street.


I didn't put anyone down. I actually said "I'm sorry if that offends anyone; it is just my personal opinion." This is a forum, and lots of what's on here are people's opinions.

I believe two foot driving (in an automatic) is actually dangerous and bad for your brakes. Again, this is my OPINION and is what I've always been taught/read/heard.

I also drive with my hands at 10:00 and 2:00, which I know is technically wrong now. I don't get mad when people tell me that's wrong. In fact, I continue doing it because I think it'd be dangerous for me to change the way I drive after having done it this way for 30 years.

People should do what they're comfortable with. The whole point that started this two-foot discussion was the suggestion to do that when in reverse and using stop mode. My opinion is that's not the right/best answer for this problem.

Sorry; this needs to be relocated. I think this whole thread got moved to its own topic.


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## garsh

Jason Krellner said:


> Proof?


Just in case that wasn't a rhetorical question, lots of driving schools discuss it (mostly, the schools about racing).

https://driver61.com/uni/left-foot-braking/
https://racers360.com/racecar-driver-education/is-left-foot-braking-faster/
https://speedsecrets.com/driving-tips/the-pros-cons-of-left-foot-braking/
There is still lots of debate on the topic, but basic physics says that it's quicker to just press down on the brake pedal than it is to move your foot from the accelerator to the brake pedal before pressing down on it.


> And why, then, are both the accelerator and brake pedals still on the right side? I'd believe you if the brake pedal had been moved leftward.


Because it's not a large enough of an advantage to warrant changing a standard interface used for every automobile all over the world.


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## StromTrooperM3

Needsdecaf said:


> There's NOTHING wrong with left foot braking on the street.


I absolutely agree autopilot is so good I've removed both my pedals and steering wheel in my car


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## SalisburySam

@StromTrooperM3, OMG! You too?


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## slave0418

StromTrooperM3 said:


> I absolutely agree autopilot is so good I've removed both my pedals and steering wheel in my car


lol 😂🤣😂


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## gary in NY

Whoever thought this would be a controversial topic!

I began driving junkers back in the carburetor era. Most of them would stall if you did not keep your right foot on the gas. Whether manual or auto, it took both feet to keep them running when stopped. So, from that point on, I was a two footed driver no matter the transmission. Teslas do not like this one bit though if you hit the two pedals at the same time, so the trick is not to. Old habits die hard, but I have no intension of breaking this one even though I admire those of you that right foot drive.

It would also seem I have a leg up on my life-long ambition to be a race car driver.


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## Needsdecaf

Jason Krellner said:


> I didn't put anyone down. I actually said "I'm sorry if that offends anyone; it is just my personal opinion." This is a forum, and lots of what's on here are people's opinions.
> 
> I believe two foot driving (in an automatic) is actually dangerous and bad for your brakes. Again, this is my OPINION and is what I've always been taught/read/heard.
> .


Well, the way it came across was pretty blunt. Just because you followed it up with "I'm sorry if this offends anyone, it's my opinion" doesn't really soften your opinion. But if you didn't mean to be harsh, well, ok.

I'm still confused why you believe it's dangerous and bad for your brakes. Are you thinking I'm advocating resting your left foot on the brake pedal?. In that case, I totally agree with that. That results in keeping the brake lights on all the time and dragging the brakes. I was referring to simply using your left foot to brake, but keeping it off the pedal when you're not braking.


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## Jason Krellner

Needsdecaf said:


> I'm still confused why you believe it's dangerous and bad for your brakes. Are you thinking I'm advocating resting your left foot on the brake pedal?. In that case, I totally agree with that. That results in keeping the brake lights on all the time and dragging the brakes. I was referring to simply using your left foot to brake, but keeping it off the pedal when you're not braking.


There are people that "ride the brakes" and I think we all agree that's bad and should lead to revocation of that person's license. My comment about this being dangerous/bad for your brakes is not related to that and is based on a few beliefs/opinions:

1. If people that drive this way do not wait until the accelerator is fully released before they put pressure on the brake pedal, then at some point the car is exerting power to move forward and braking at the same time. That strikes me as bad for the brakes (i.e., they would wear down more quickly).

2. If not, and the driver is only pressing the brake after lifting the other foot completely off the accelerator, then my hypothesis is that the "reaction time" gained by the two-foot method is negligible at best. It would be interesting to test this, but it would be hard to test it scientifically. I know that personally, as I lift off the accelerator, I am already moving my right foot over to the brake pedal. It's a fluid motion and (for me) probably way more coordinated than trying to use my left foot.

SIDE NOTE: A while back, while driving with some new footwear, I was finding myself hitting the brake pedal (with my right foot) before it had left the accelerator. The car gave an audio and visual alert that I had pressed both pedals at once. This is evidence that this behavior is not recommended by Tesla.

3. Carrying that a step further, I am firmly right handed/footed. My left hand is useless for refined tasks, and I'm betting my left foot isn't any better. As a result, I personally would be braking less efficiently/smoothly than with my right foot, which could lead to getting rear ended, etc. Maybe someone who is more ambidextrous than me would be better at this. I recall from high school one of my friend's sisters that used her left foot to brake, and I always found myself nauseous by the time I exited the car.

All my own personal views...


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## Dr. J

gary in NY said:


> It would also seem I have a leg up on my life-long ambition to be a race car driver.


AND you now have the car for it. Thanks, Elon!


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## MelindaV

gary in NY said:


> Most of them would stall if you did not keep your right foot on the gas. Whether manual or auto, it took both feet to keep them running when stopped.


that's what I learned to drive on too! and you could tell how well (or not) it was running by how rich the fuel smell was coming out of the exhaust. Yay for gas being $1.00/gal, because otherwise I wouldnt have been able to afford the 8MPG rate of fuel suckage.


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## Dr. J

MelindaV said:


> that's what I learned to drive on too! and you could tell how well (or not) it was running by how rich the fuel smell was coming out of the exhaust. Yay for gas being $1.00/gal, because otherwise I wouldnt have been able to afford the 8MPG rate of fuel suckage.


"Back in Nebraska," we called this a "farm truck." Clutch, brake and gas pedal all at the same time starting off up hill from a stop sign. Ahhhh. Brings back memories of corn tassels and cow tipping.


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## MelindaV

Dr. J said:


> "Back in Nebraska," we called this a "farm truck." Clutch, brake and gas pedal all at the same time starting off up hill from a stop sign. Ahhhh. Brings back memories of corn tassels and cow tipping.


where I grew up we called this a 67 mustang with stock glass pack mufflers


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## StromTrooperM3

MelindaV said:


> I wouldnt have been able to afford the 8MPG rate of fuel suckage.


Try 8mpg at today's gas prices like I pay 😳

Only live once lol


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## GDN

Dr. J said:


> "Back in Nebraska," we called this a "farm truck." Clutch, brake and gas pedal all at the same time starting off up hill from a stop sign. Ahhhh. Brings back memories of corn tassels and cow tipping.


You probably learned to drive this at about the age of 10, if not earlier. You drove in the pastures and gravel roads. I have a feeling you also went Snipe hunting. I grew up the same way. Someone had to feed the cows.

The problem with the clutch on most of these old trucks is they were also worn out, but granny gear was perfect for dumping hay out of the back, just let it ease along. Thinking of that, I guess we will need "Creep" mode in the new "Cybertruck" afterall if it is to ever be adopted out on the farm.


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## Dr. J

GDN said:


> You probably learned to drive this at about the age of 10, if not earlier. You drove in the pastures and gravel roads. I have a feeling you also went Snipe hunting. I grew up the same way. Someone had to feed the cows.
> 
> The problem with the clutch on most of these old trucks is they were also worn out, but granny gear was perfect for dumping hay out of the back, just let it ease along. Thinking of that, I guess we will need "Creep" mode in the new "Cybertruck" afterall if it is to ever be adopted out on the farm.


No, I can't take credit for growing up on the farm, I was a city boy that saw it all from the outside. I did learn how to drive at age 15 on a loaner farm truck, though, and your description of granny gear is spot on. First gear was absolutely no use for driving around town.

Now that I think about it, my Dad might have been hazing me, teaching me to drive on that truck.  He definitely guided me to that little hill with the stop sign, and lots of cross traffic.


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## MelindaV

Dr. J said:


> Now that I think about it, my Dad might have been hazing me, teaching me to drive on that truck.  He definitely guided me to that little hill with the stop sign, and lots of cross traffic.


wait - hill? in NE? really?


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## GDN

Dr. J said:


> No, I can't take credit for growing up on the farm, I was a city boy that saw it all from the outside. I did learn how to drive at age 15 on a loaner farm truck, though, and your description of granny gear is spot on. First gear was absolutely no use for driving around town.
> 
> Now that I think about it, my Dad might have been hazing me, teaching me to drive on that truck.  He definitely guided me to that little hill with the stop sign, and lots of cross traffic.


But you never went Snipe hunting?


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## Dr. J

GDN said:


> But you never went Snipe hunting?


Only at night, after beer drinking.


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