# First Model 3 motor failure!



## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

http://teslaweekly.com/first-model-...l&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer


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## Michael Russo (Oct 15, 2016)

Thanks for sharing, @LUXMAN .
Key takeaway for me is how appropriately T≡SLA took it on leading to owner satisfaction. Sh.. happens; less of a big deal if your cleaning technique is optimal...


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Yup. Sounds like they were right on it. Hopefully just an isolated incident as we haven't heard of any other problems.


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> Yup. Sounds like they were right on it. Hopefully just an isolated incident as we haven't heard of any other problems.


As close as the press is following this car, and with all the major manufactures out there pushing for as much bad press as possible, I'm sure we'd of heard about any others. Seems like an isolated incident and I hope more info is released once they find the cause.


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

Given how the vast majority of Model 3s were produced in the past couple months, most in the past month or two, it seems pretty clear that this was a manufacturing defect rather than a wear issue.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

KarenRei said:


> Given how the vast majority of Model 3s were produced in the past couple months, most in the past month or two, it seems pretty clear that this was a manufacturing defect rather than a wear issue.


Oh yeah. especially with only 250 miles on the car


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## TesLou (Aug 20, 2016)

KarenRei said:


> Given how the vast majority of Model 3s were produced in the past couple months, most in the past month or two, it seems pretty clear that this was a manufacturing defect rather than a wear issue.


 This, among many other little qualms and quirks, is why I think I have the ultimate delivery timeframe (May-July). Like a squirrel, I'm busy socking away cash (cache?) to lower my payment while some of these early bugs and build issues are sorted out. I particularly want all of the EAP bugs to be gone by the time I take delivery, as well as some additional voice commands to be updated via software.

By the way, this is my 100th post. Any swag or door prizes for that milestone?


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## teslaliving (Apr 2, 2016)

Man that sucks. I'm on my third drive unit on my S and wouldn't want to go through all that over again with new drive units on the 3. At these volumes this could kill them if they don't get ahead of it.


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

teslaliving said:


> Man that sucks. I'm on my third drive unit on my S and wouldn't want to go through all that over again with new drive units on the 3. At these volumes this could kill them if they don't get ahead of it.


I see no reason to equate this to the S drive unit problem. This is very clearly a manufacturing defect, not a wear issue.

One drive unit manufacturing defect out of thousands of vehicles.


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## teslaliving (Apr 2, 2016)

KarenRei said:


> I see no reason to equate this to the S drive unit problem. This is very clearly a manufacturing defect, not a wear issue.
> 
> One drive unit manufacturing defect out of thousands of vehicles.


Based on what data? Also the S ones took time to fail and the rate wasnt super high either. I think only time will tell if they've repeated the issue or this is indeed an isolated incident.


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

TesLou said:


> Like a squirrel, I'm busy socking away cash (cache?) to lower my payment while some of these early bugs and build issues are sorted out.


 Caching cash.
Your later time frame is almost equivalent to second-year production, which I have heard is a useful time to buy to avoid early defects. Seems wise to me.


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## Attica04 (Apr 27, 2017)

Friend had to go to war with BMW over his 2017 3 Series BMW that had engine failure three times in 12 mths. We don't have lemon laws in Australia so had to go back over and over and only had the car three months in last 10. He eventually had to lawyer up to get them to take the car back and give him a refund. Case is still ongoing. The car first failed two days after he took possession. Another associate had similar issue with his new Land Rover.


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

teslaliving said:


> Based on what data? Also the S ones took time to fail


That's precisely the point. _The S motors took time to fail_. This did not. The S motors were a design defect. This was a manufacturing defect. They're two entirely different things.



> and the rate wasnt super high either


Not true; the rate of motor failures in the S was nearly 100%. Almost every early S eventually suffered a motor failure (if the motor wasn't preemptively swapped out first). They were a _design defect_, not a manufacturing defect.

That does not mean that there are not design defects in the Model 3. There very well could be. What we can say, however, is that this case is not one of them.


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## jsmay311 (Oct 2, 2017)

My Model 3 suffered a catastrophic mechanical failure earlier today that sounds similar to the "motor" failure described above. It happened only 25 hours and 63 miles after delivery, right upon the very first time I floored the accelerator. See below for a more complete description.

But first, since the service center won't look at it till Monday and I'm dying to understand what happened, here's 2 questions for the M30C community:

Does anyone know if it was ever publicly reported what specifically failed in the incident described above back in February?

Are there any good visuals or diagrams that show the innards of the Model 3 rear drive unit that someone could share to help me hypothesize about what might have broken in there?
------------------------------

*Full story:* I picked up my brand new LR RWD Model 3 yesterday. (VIN 37XXX) On the drive home I never felt the need to really punch the accelerator since I had previously rented a Model 3 on Turo and so I already knew what it was capable of.

Fast forward to this afternoon and I took a work friend out for a spin (he's a reservation holder who's undecided about placing an order). The car was going about 20mph when I punched the accelerator to show off what it was capable of. Immediately we hear a loud bang/pop from the back of the car, followed by an abrupt loss of power to the wheels (i.e., not responsive to accelerator inputs), followed by several seconds of violent shuddering and a loud squealing noise coming from the back of the car, and all the while the speedometer is wildly going all over the place (e.g., I think it zoomed up to over 50mph when we were only going 20mph, and then the mph numbers were erratically flickering and jumping around).

So I pull off to the side of the road. It still won't respond to accelerator inputs (apart from a bit more shuddering from the rear and the speedometer jumping up to ~10mph despite the car not moving), so we push it into a nearby parking lot. There are 3 errors on the screen, including something about the emergency brake not available, and regen not working (I think), and one other thing I can't recall. I call Roadside Assistance who has me do a shut down and restart, which predictably does no good.

They call a tow truck which takes me and the car to the Westmont, IL service center. There they say they've never heard of any incidents with a Model 3 that sound anything like what I described, and they said they wouldn't get a chance to look at it until Monday. But they were able to glance and see that the axle shafts appeared intact, so I'm guessing it's gotta be something in the drive unit.

Sadly I wasn't as lucky as the guy from the original story who got a S P85 loaner. They didn't have any Tesla loaners available so they drove me down the street to wait in line at Enterprise for a rental.


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## Scuffers (Jun 8, 2017)

from your description, that sounds like something in the motor/drive unit has broken loose, the fact the speedo is jumping about implies one of the shaft sensors got hit or whatever it was looking at broke apart.

is it possible one the magnets could escape?


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

jsmay311 said:


> My Model 3 suffered a catastrophic mechanical failure earlier today that sounds similar to the "motor" failure described above. It happened only 25 hours and 63 miles after delivery, right upon the very first time I floored the accelerator. See below for a more complete description.
> 
> But first, since the service center won't look at it till Monday and I'm dying to understand what happened, here's 2 questions for the M30C community:
> 
> ...


It sounds like the reduction gear failed/came apart. I'm guessing it's due to assembly error (like forgetting to install/tighten a part).


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## CoastalCruiser (Sep 29, 2017)

jsmay311 said:


> Are there any good visuals or diagrams that show the innards of the Model 3 rear drive unit that someone could share to help me hypothesize about what might have broken in there?


I don't know that I've seen any shots of the gearbox area of the drive unit. There were no photos I know of from the German teardown, and the Jack Rickard and Ingineerix teardowns have not broken the drive unit open yet (in terms of what they've published), so there is only bits and pieces photos from the Munro teardown (see below). I might be able to get a shot of the gears intact in the case from Sandy Munro. Based upon what may be similar incidences of this type of failure reported in the Tesla forum -where a loud clunk or thunking noise is heard before the car won't go any more- the gearbox is certainly a suspect. I like PNWmisty's theory.


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## jsmay311 (Oct 2, 2017)

Quick update: I got a call from the local service center a few days ago and they informed me that my car's drive unit would be replaced. Apart from that, the only concrete piece of information about the failure that they had to share was that the pyro fuse had blown. (This fact apparently had been relayed to the SC by Tesla Engineering who had reviewed the vehicle logs.)

Please help me understand this. I thought that if the pyro fuse blows, it isolates the high-voltage battery. But after I heard the initial “bang” from the rear of my car and I lost power to the wheels, the motor appeared to continue to respond to accelerator pedal inputs by revving up (as evidenced by the rear end of the car shaking/shuddering and emitting loud noises after pressing the accelerator pedal on 2 separate occasions, and also by the speed on the speedometer rising up independent of the wheel speed at the same time as the shaking and noise). Additionally, the AC continued to blow cold air for at least another 30 minutes despite 95F outside temps.

If the pyro fuse had actually blown, wouldn’t neither of these things be possible? (I.e., the motor wouldn’t rev up and the A/C compressor wouldn’t run because neither would have any power available to them?)

Can anyone with a better understanding about the effects of a blown pyro fuse than me point out errors in my logic? (Thanks!)


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

jsmay311 said:


> Quick update: I got a call from the local service center a few days ago and they informed me that my car's drive unit would be replaced. Apart from that, the only concrete piece of information about the failure that they had to share was that the pyro fuse had blown. (This fact apparently had been relayed to the SC by Tesla Engineering who had reviewed the vehicle logs.)
> 
> Please help me understand this. I thought that if the pyro fuse blows, it isolates the high-voltage battery. But after I heard the initial "bang" from the rear of my car and I lost power to the wheels, the motor appeared to continue to respond to accelerator pedal inputs by revving up (as evidenced by the rear end of the car shaking/shuddering and emitting loud noises after pressing the accelerator pedal on 2 separate occasions, and also by the speed on the speedometer rising up independent of the wheel speed at the same time as the shaking and noise). Additionally, the AC continued to blow cold air for at least another 30 minutes despite 95F outside temps.
> 
> ...


My understanding is the same as yours (*shrug*)


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## 3V Pilot (Sep 15, 2017)

jsmay311 said:


> Quick update: I got a call from the local service center a few days ago and they informed me that my car's drive unit would be replaced. Apart from that, the only concrete piece of information about the failure that they had to share was that the pyro fuse had blown. (This fact apparently had been relayed to the SC by Tesla Engineering who had reviewed the vehicle logs.)
> 
> Please help me understand this. I thought that if the pyro fuse blows, it isolates the high-voltage battery. But after I heard the initial "bang" from the rear of my car and I lost power to the wheels, the motor appeared to continue to respond to accelerator pedal inputs by revving up (as evidenced by the rear end of the car shaking/shuddering and emitting loud noises after pressing the accelerator pedal on 2 separate occasions, and also by the speed on the speedometer rising up independent of the wheel speed at the same time as the shaking and noise). Additionally, the AC continued to blow cold air for at least another 30 minutes despite 95F outside temps.
> 
> ...


Is it possbile that you had some sort of internal part failure in the reduction gear or motor, causing the above symptoms, and then the pyro fuse let go sometime later. If you attempted to re-start the car after pulling over or something shorted out after you stopped maybe that is when the fuse blew? Just a guess.....


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## jsmay311 (Oct 2, 2017)

3V Pilot said:


> Is it possbile that you had some sort of internal part failure in the reduction gear or motor, causing the above symptoms, and then the pyro fuse let go sometime later. If you attempted to re-start the car after pulling over or something shorted out after you stopped maybe that is when the fuse blew? Just a guess.....


I don't think so. The tow truck driver unsuccessfully tried to get it "into gear" before loading it onto the truck, but there were no unusual signs or sounds when he did so, and I had attempted the same thing multiple times earlier with no apparent negative consequences.


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## John (Apr 16, 2016)

Dunno. Maybe the pyro fuse is downstream of the transformer for accessory power? Assuming the pop was the fuse.


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## jsmay311 (Oct 2, 2017)

Quick update:

I finally got my car back yesterday. 

The service center tech clarified that *the pyro fuse that blew was in the drive unit itself* and was not the main HV battery pack fuse. So that clears some things up.

He said that Tesla Engineering told him that the vehicle logs showed that there was an (unspecified) mechanical failure inside the drive unit (which they couldn't/wouldn't specify -- he made it sound like they were purposefully withholding more detailed information), and that was followed by a voltage spike which caused the fuse to blow.

As for why the motor seemed to continue to respond to accelerator pedal inputs for a while after the initial mechanical failure... the tech that I spoke to wasn't sure, but he guessed that there might've been a few seconds between the mechanical failure and the voltage spike, and maybe the voltage spike / fuse blowing happened after the motor started spinning up.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

jsmay311 said:


> Quick update:
> 
> I finally got my car back yesterday.
> 
> ...


So they put in a New Drive Unit and Pyro Fuse? Anything else?


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## jsmay311 (Oct 2, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> So they put in a New Drive Unit and Pyro Fuse? Anything else?


Here's the invoice below. Curiously, it doesn't list the drive unit.

And the bit about the "DISCONNECT,BATTERY,PYRO" being replaced is also confusing, as I was specifically told that the main battery pyro fuse DIDN'T blow. And there's nothing about it in the description.

It notes that the half shafts were replaced "proactively".

Apart from that, a couple hoses, a couple nuts/washers, and 1 mosfet. Not sure what the mosfet is about. Maybe it's used to trigger the fuse?










Looks like a few of these same parts have shown up on other people's invoices after a drive unit failure.


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## Evergreen (Jul 19, 2018)

jsmay311 said:


> Here's the invoice below. Curiously, it doesn't list the drive unit.
> 
> And the bit about the "DISCONNECT,BATTERY,PYRO" being replaced is also confusing, as I was specifically told that the main battery pyro fuse DIDN'T blow. And there's nothing about it in the description.
> 
> ...


Wondering how things have been since getting the car back? Going through the same process now...


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## CoastalCruiser (Sep 29, 2017)

jsmay311 said:


> Apart from that, a couple hoses, a couple nuts/washers, and 1 mosfet. Not sure what the mosfet is about. Maybe it's used to trigger the fuse?


Mosfets are the power transistors in the inverter (Metal Oxide Semiconductor - Field Effect Transistor). There's a bunch of them in there.


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## modelo tres (Oct 1, 2018)

Just found this thread.

My Model 3 Performance with Performance Upgrade Package died within 4 days of delivery.

The rear drive unit was replaced under warranty, but was not listed on the invoice as well. Why are they hiding this?

Elon Musk tweeted that with dual motors, if the rear dies, then the front can power the car, but this was not the case.

My car just completely died in the middle of an intersection with my 3 year old in the car. A/C did not work after this incident happened.

Service center had my car for almost 2 weeks to replace the rear drive unit.


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## Jay79 (Aug 18, 2018)

modelo tres said:


> Just found this thread.
> 
> My Model 3 Performance with Performance Upgrade Package died within 4 days of delivery.
> 
> ...


Man that's really disappointing, sorry to hear that. I'm starting to get concerned, I've read a few other cases about this happening, it seems like its rare for this to happen but I guess in the end nothing is perfect. I hope you get a speedy turnaround. Keep us posted on how things progress


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

Jay79 said:


> Man that's really disappointing, sorry to hear that. I'm starting to get concerned, I've read a few other cases about this happening, it seems like its rare for this to happen but I guess in the end nothing is perfect. I hope you get a speedy turnaround. Keep us posted on how things progress


Unfortunately, you'll never see a thread titled "No problems here!" with the content, "So, I was driving down the road today, and my drive unit didn't die. Everything's going swimmingly!" Obviously only the people with problems report problems.

Not that that helps the people that actually do experience a problem.


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## modelo tres (Oct 1, 2018)

I already got my car back, everything is back to normal.

But i still wonder why the front motor couldn't power/propel me and my son to a safe place.

"@ElonMusk
Tesla dual motor means there is a motor in front & a motor in rear. One is optimized for power & one for range. Car drives fine even if a motor breaks down. Helps ensure you make it to your destination & don't get stuck on side of road in potentially unsafe conditions.
2:31 AM - May 20, 2018
"


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## Evergreen (Jul 19, 2018)

Glad to hear that both of you got through it safely, and that things are normal. 

Wonder if it’s something that the engineers are working on to allow the disabled pair of wheels to free spin when power is cut? Because in some of the towing literature for the model 3, you aren’t supposed to roll the rear wheels when being towed or risk damage to the rear drive unit. Perhaps a feature not ready for production yet?

SC mentioned that the part should come in this week. Fingers crossed. 

On another note, the tow truck gouged the rim as they got it on the flatbed...I mentioned it to the SC, (and reminded them of other things I noticed when I took delivery) hopefully they will take care of it all at once.


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

modelo tres said:


> I already got my car back, everything is back to normal.
> 
> But i still wonder why the front motor couldn't power/propel me and my son to a safe place.
> 
> ...


Seems very likely to be a case of "not implemented yet". They absolutely must achieve this, otherwise they can't get their "million miles no breakdowns" guarantee for Semi.


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## babula (Aug 26, 2018)

KarenRei said:


> Unfortunately, you'll never see a thread titled "No problems here!" with the content, "So, I was driving down the road today, and my drive unit didn't die. Everything's going swimmingly!" Obviously only the people with problems report problems.
> 
> Not that that helps the people that actually do experience a problem.


If it helps, my car is perfect and I love it


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## Feathermerchant (Sep 17, 2018)

Since it appears that your failure was a mechanical one, the system may have concluded that it was not safe to allow the car to drive. It could not know if the failure was a drive axle or internal to the gear train. Driving with either of those could be a real hazard.


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

Kind of applicable to this thread: Consumer Reports just came back with their reliability verdict for the Model 3: "Average".

Given how frequent bluetooth problems have been (not just anecdotally, but statistically), problems with "everything else" can't be too frequent for them to still get an "Average" rating 

(The rating on S dropped back down to "below average" due to air suspension problems after making it standard on all vehicles, and X reliability is still poor)


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

KarenRei said:


> Kind of applicable to this thread: Consumer Reports just came back with their reliability verdict for the Model 3: "Average".
> 
> Given how frequent bluetooth problems have been (not just anecdotally, but statistically), problems with "everything else" can't be too frequent for them to still get an "Average" rating
> 
> (The rating on S dropped back down to "below average" due to air suspension problems after making it standard on all vehicles, and X reliability is still poor)


People still pay attention to Consumer Reports?


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## KarenRei (Jul 27, 2017)

PNWmisty said:


> People still pay attention to Consumer Reports?


Yes.


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## Evergreen (Jul 19, 2018)

Just an update-

Got my car back on Monday! 

Service center folks took care of the drive unit and most of the short list of things that I noticed on delivery day! 

A few small things left, but I’m sure they will get squared away soon. 

Had a S as a loaner, and if there’s a silver lining in this, it was a great training vehicle to get acquainted with EV driving. Also, definitely prefer the Model 3 to the S.


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