# Software Build v10.1 2019.36.2.1 ea322ad (11/7/2019)



## NEO

2019.36.2.1 ea322ad just installed on a Model 3 in Colorado


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## Joaquin

Installed in one Model 3 Long Range Dual Motor, according to teslafi.


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## sduck

Curious about the title of this thread (and similar ones) - it says "v10.0" - why the .0? There wasn't a v.9.1, or v9.6, etc.


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## iChris93

sduck said:


> Curious about the title of this thread (and similar ones) - it says "v10.0" - why the .0? There wasn't a v.9.1, or v9.6, etc.


We're just following Tesla's lead. 


REDR8R said:


> View attachment 29466
> View attachment 29467
> View attachment 29468
> View attachment 29469


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## airbusav8r

Tesla engineering uses a combination of yearly releases (similar to Amazon) combined with semantic versioning. 

V10 2019.10.0.36.2.1= Release 2019.10 

Semantic versioning goes

Major.Minor.Patch

Major 36
Minor 2
Patch 1 ea322ad

That 6 character ea322ad may seem cryptic; that is the head of the git revision tree (the last code commit of the release) so the engineers, QA, etc... know what patch you have to the commit, they can also immediately revert to this, etc... Think of every Tesla like a server, they are distributed, and you need to update your website. This process is the exact same, simply because, the MCU is basically a web service handling a series of events.

When you see minor bumps go from .1 to .2 immediately, internally they most likely ran up to 30+ releases, remember their QA has Tesla simulators running these releases for days automated, and the testing teams are using these releases on their track months in advance prior to you knowing this is happening, that is why there is so many numbers in the release, and they may seem confusing.


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## FRC

airbusav8r said:


> Tesla engineering uses a combination of yearly releases (similar to Amazon) combined with semantic versioning.
> 
> V10 2019.10.0.36.2.1= Release 2019.10
> 
> Semantic versioning goes
> 
> Major.Minor.Patch
> 
> Major 36
> Minor 2
> Patch 1 ea322ad
> 
> That 6 character ea322ad may seem cryptic; that is the head of the git revision tree (the last code commit of the release) so the engineers, QA, etc... know what patch you have to the commit, they can also immediately revert to this, etc... Think of every Tesla like a server, they are distributed, and you need to update your website. This process is the exact same, simply because, the MCU is basically a web service handling a series of events.
> 
> When you see minor bumps go from .1 to .2 immediately, internally they most likely ran up to 30+ releases, remember their QA has Tesla simulators running these releases for days automated, and the testing teams are using these releases on their track months in advance prior to you knowing this is happening, that is why there is so many numbers in the release, and they may seem confusing.


They don't SEEM confusing, they ARE confusing. But thanks for helping to make them a bit LESS confusing!


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## airbusav8r

Haha yeah organizations generally do not speak of their infrastructure or deployment process for security reasons. There is more to the picture but at a base level.

It is a major version 10, sometimes referred to as Master, GA (General Availability) etc..

The 36.2.1 is the actual release under the version “bucket.”
So why do all of this confusing stuff? Well technically a majority of the software being debated, and complained about, is Beta software which means it can be pulled, changed, altered, break API’s or downright modified without your knowing, that’s why you were asked to click yes on almost everything. So with all of theses beta branches, and AB testing (they push different code to different cars, use machine learning to quantify the results into actionable metrics to create new tickets for teams sprint 1-2 weeks of committed work) they need a proper way to track on a large scale what is working and what is regressing. The windshield wipers is an example of regression, and regression testing. They intentionally tried multiple solutions waiting for feedback to determine the mathematical true North Star, versus trying to determine signal to noise ratios from their customer support lines. I gave the tech nonsense without explaining the why earlier and for that I apologize. I’ve heard rumors engineers and product managers of all levels frequent forums to cry at night hoping everyone is happy too


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## airbusav8r

If I were explaining to my father...

“Dad, that neural net you kept receiving emails about... That is an internet, that is just Tesla cars talking to each other, much like you log into a network at work. It ‘learns’ by taking large amounts of data and determining the winner based on pre-defined bands written in programming languages made for this, they are called Python and R. You continue to get these weird version numbers, at an interval you can’t understand because they are based on when the team is done with the new feature or bug, have done peer code review (co-workers read your code, made suggestions, edits, tested it on their machines), than passed your teams QA, than passed integration testing to make sure everything works together such as the button to open Netflix, and Netflix audio coming through infotainment, than it gets stamped with a release and the last commit (those weird letters) so the analytics servers know exactly what your car did, with what software, and what you did to modify the intended actions.”


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## Joaquin

Can I ask the moderators why suddenly I'm no longer the author of this thread? 

And no, there was not any other thread with the same firmware version when I created it... not that I care, just wondering if I did something wrong... 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## Long Ranger

airbusav8r said:


> If I were explaining to my father...
> 
> "Dad, that neural net you kept receiving emails about... That is an internet, that is just Tesla cars talking to each other, much like you log into a network at work. It 'learns' by taking large amounts of data and determining the winner based on pre-defined bands written in programming languages made for this, they are called Python and R. You continue to get these weird version numbers, at an interval you can't understand because they are based on when the team is done with the new feature or bug, have done peer code review (co-workers read your code, made suggestions, edits, tested it on their machines), than passed your teams QA, than passed integration testing to make sure everything works together such as the button to open Netflix, and Netflix audio coming through infotainment, than it gets stamped with a release and the last commit (those weird letters) so the analytics servers know exactly what your car did, with what software, and what you did to modify the intended actions."


And what my father would hear:
"Dad, ... you kept receiving emails... that is just Tesla cars talking to each other... It 'learns' by taking large amounts of data and determining the winner... you can't understand... they... know exactly what your car did... and what you did...."


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## Mesprit87

airbusav8r said:


> Haha yeah organizations generally do not speak of their infrastructure or deployment process for security reasons. There is more to the picture but at a base level.
> 
> It is a major version 10, sometimes referred to as Master, GA (General Availability) etc..
> 
> The 36.2.1 is the actual release under the version "bucket."
> So why do all of this confusing stuff? Well technically a majority of the software being debated, and complained about, is Beta software which means it can be pulled, changed, altered, break API's or downright modified without your knowing, that's why you were asked to click yes on almost everything. So with all of theses beta branches, and AB testing (they push different code to different cars, use machine learning to quantify the results into actionable metrics to create new tickets for teams sprint 1-2 weeks of committed work) they need a proper way to track on a large scale what is working and what is regressing. The windshield wipers is an example of regression, and regression testing. They intentionally tried multiple solutions waiting for feedback to determine the mathematical true North Star, versus trying to determine signal to noise ratios from their customer support lines. I gave the tech nonsense without explaining the why earlier and for that I apologize. I've heard rumors engineers and product managers of all levels frequent forums to cry at night hoping everyone is happy too


Wonder how they deal with the authorities, isn't there a core that can't be messed with since it's been certified? Reading on 36.1, one could wonder.


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## sduck

airbusav8r said:


> Tesla engineering uses a combination of yearly releases (similar to Amazon) combined with semantic versioning.
> 
> V10 2019.10.0.36.2.1= Release 2019.10
> 
> Semantic versioning goes
> 
> Major.Minor.Patch
> 
> Major 36
> Minor 2
> Patch 1 ea322ad
> 
> That 6 character ea322ad may seem cryptic; that is the head of the git revision tree (the last code commit of the release) so the engineers, QA, etc... know what patch you have to the commit, they can also immediately revert to this, etc... Think of every Tesla like a server, they are distributed, and you need to update your website. This process is the exact same, simply because, the MCU is basically a web service handling a series of events.
> 
> When you see minor bumps go from .1 to .2 immediately, internally they most likely ran up to 30+ releases, remember their QA has Tesla simulators running these releases for days automated, and the testing teams are using these releases on their track months in advance prior to you knowing this is happening, that is why there is so many numbers in the release, and they may seem confusing.


Yea yea yea, I get all that. And the part about following Tesla's lead. Perhaps I should clarify - do we really need to add the .0? For all practical purposes there has never been vX.Y version where Y is anything other than 0. It just seems a bit... pretentious.


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## airbusav8r

Regalutory and compliance is pretty easy going all the way up until you hit DOD4 or HIPA+DOD, etc... Compliance and regulatory divisions most likely are working with the NTSB, CA, twenty other red-tape branches a year in advance when applying for patents and/or during the longer quarterly goals (epics). Basically everything we see has been planned for potentially 2+ years depending on what it is. The infotainment system most likely received more pushback than summons in 2019 as they most likely had to deal with what we will see in 2020 back in Q1 of 2018.

Yes, there are multiple redundant systems, the drivetrain, isolated steering bus, battery are all independent and those systems would require a series of approvals, and testing, thus they are most likely handled with a proof of concept well before those features hit any teams backlog.


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## airbusav8r

You can tell your dad thanks to GDPR, the cars locations are not correlated with him, they are put into a bucket with thousands of other vehicles.


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## FF35

Joaquin said:


> Can I ask the moderators why suddenly I'm no longer the author of this thread?
> 
> And no, there was not any other thread with the same firmware version when I created it... not that I care, just wondering if I did something wrong... 🤷🏻‍♂️


You were too slow by 14 minutes.


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## garsh

Joaquin said:


> Can I ask the moderators why suddenly I'm no longer the author of this thread?


The post that is now the first post of this thread was originally a reply in a different software version thread.
I moved it to this thread, and because it was actually posted 14 minutes earlier than yours, it is now the first post.


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## Kizzy

sduck said:


> Yea yea yea, I get all that. And the part about following Tesla's lead. Perhaps I should clarify - do we really need to add the .0? For all practical purposes there has never been vX.Y version where Y is anything other than 0. It just seems a bit... pretentious.


Sounds safe for now, but we've heard mention of a potential 10.1 (and if they go the Apple route, there will be plenty more).


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## victor

Kizzy said:


> Sounds safe for now, but we've heard mention of a potential 10.1 (and if they go the Apple route, there will be plenty more).


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## ENW

Joaquin said:


> Installed in one Model 3 Long Range Dual Motor, according to teslafi.


I've just installed it now. Anyone know what it does? I saw a human ( icon? Animation?)on my screen today but that was before the update.... I'm going to drive and see what's changed.


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## Jason Krellner

Release notes state stop mode, scheduled departure, power increase and automatic navigation.


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## SanJoseDriver

Here is the full list:
- 5% Power improvement
- New HOLD driving mode that uses regen to fully stop the car, improving range
- Scheduled Departure (helpful if you have time of use electricity pricing)
- Automatic Naviagation (Nav's to home/work/next scheduled meeting automatically)

I'm assuming cone recognition and improved smart summon are here as well even though it is not in the notes.

Should also note the HOLD driving mode and Automatic Navigation were turned on automatically for me, they seem to be opt out vs opt in features. Can't wait to test them out!


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## Jason Krellner

One suggested edit:

- Scheduled Departure (helpful if you have time of use electricity pricing or live in a cold weather climate)

I am looking forward to having full regen in the mornings!



SanJoseDriver said:


> Here is the full list:
> - 5% Power improvement
> - New HOLD driving mode that uses regen to fully stop the car, improving range
> - Scheduled Departure (helpful if you have time of use electricity pricing)
> - Automatic Naviagation (Nav's to home/work/next scheduled meeting automatically)
> 
> I'm assuming cone recognition and improved smart summon are here as well even though it is not in the notes.
> 
> Should also note the HOLD driving mode and Automatic Navigation were turned on automatically for me, they seem to be opt out vs opt in features. Can't wait to test them out!


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## tencate

I've just installed it and had to go out in the cold to see how well the HOLD driving mode works. I could never quite get it right with the paddle on the original Leaf I borrowed for a while, I'd almost always come up short at stop signs. Cruising around the neighborhood tonight, I only overshot a stop sign once and came up short at another but all the rest were pretty much where I wanted to be. I usually back into my driveway and in going reverse, the HOLD is very strong, I had to tap and let go of the GO pedal a couple of times to get to the right spot. I think I prefer NOT to have HOLD in reverse! But in the forward directions it's fun. We'll see if I keep it on though, I rather think I'll turn it off, I'd rather have final say exactly where at the stop sign I want to stop. I think. I'll also try out the scheduled departure as it's supposed to get really cold here in the next few days!


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## Kizzy

victor said:


>


Well, dang. There it is.









My experience so far: with my phone in my front jeans pocket, it took a few seconds to unlock (and took a few attempts).

Edit: I just took the car out on the road. As has been reported, HOLD is the default stopping mode. It's taking me a while to get used to true one pedal driving. I keep reaching for the brake before realizing I (usually) don't need to. I used the brake twice-one at an intersection at the bottom of a steep hill and again to disengage Autopilot after a car pulled in right in front of me going significantly less than my ~55mph.

The regen at low speeds feels a little weird. It's a much deeper growl, especially on steeper hills). It's so weird. I no longer get that airplane leaving the gate feel as my foot needs to be actively pushing the pedal in order to move.

I'm finding the language interesting. It specifically mentions "blends in brakes." Like, how soon is it blending in the brakes? Right at the end or just under 5mph?


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## RichEV

Installed overnight. Haven't tried Hold yet. 

Most of my in-town driving is on AP. It seems like the main change to my in-town driving will be to push up on the stalk at stops if there is no pace car in front, instead of tapping the brake.


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## tencate

By the way, the on-screen release notes on the various features appear to be the same verbiage as the 36.1 release notes. I did take photos but seems redundant to post them when you can pop back to the 36.1 thread and see them there.


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## Rick Steinwand

Any feedback from cold climates if there's an improvement with decel on cold days with Hold? When I leave work on a cold day, I seem to coast forever.


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## tencate

Rick Steinwand said:


> Any feedback from cold climates if there's an improvement with decel on cold days


It'll be colder here next week I'll see. But I DID notice the bizarre lack of regeneration above about 40 mph again. I switched to snow tires a week or so ago. Ah hah...


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## Rick Steinwand

tencate said:


> It'll be colder here next week I'll see.


I could report back when it's -20°F and I've been parked at work all day, but I can tell you now it's granny mode for acceleration and no decel (coast forever) when off the pedal.


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## tencate

Laughing Squid said:


> Texas model 3 dual motor- received 2019.36.2.1 late last night. I haven't been out driving yet though.


Welcome to the forum! Just a quick note, the moderators don't like us posting notes saying "I got it!"  but DO let us know your impressions. LOADS of good info in this forum too, almost 2 years of experiences on Model 3!


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## JWardell

Starting to see some features for HW3 only:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1193166551513477120


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## magglass1

Just tried hold mode for the first time. It's 58 degrees (F) out (and 75% charge) and it seems to stop slower than I'd expect, at least for reaching 0 mph. At a stop sign I have to wait an extra 3-4 seconds for the car to go from 1-2 mph to 0 mph compared with using the brake. Maybe this isn't an issue in California since they all use the "California stop", but it certainly won't work for me.


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## airj1012

JWardell said:


> Starting to see some features for HW3 only:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1193166551513477120


New visualizations outside of v10? Do we know what they look like besides this statement?

Although I'm not a huge fan of Smart Summon, probably won't use it all that often, its great that there is an increased rollout of the feature. More data!


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## Ken Voss

Just came back from a short ride using Hold mode for the first time and here is my initial reaction in no particular order:

Hold mode is definitely the most economical setting as you hardly use any brake and regeneration is optimized
I like not having to touch the brake peddle
It definitely will take some time to become comfortable with it, I am not there yet but willing to keep using it, i suspect it wont take that long to get comfortable
Biggest issue for me so far is parking in my garage. I use a laser for precision parking guidance and getting the car to stop at precisely the exact laser point location is much more difficult in Hold mode. 
Its easy to see how this is an important step toward FSD and Auto Pilot for city streets where the car will have to come to a stop at red lights and stop signs.


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## TesLou

As one who has had 36.1 for a couple of weeks now, I can tell you the hardest thing to get used to is Hold mode while in reverse (backing out of the garage or into a parking space). It takes a while to get the hang of it.


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## iChris93

I think they changed the wording on this notification. Limited regen due to cold battery.


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## TheeCatzMeow

iChris93 said:


> I think they changed the wording on this notification. Limited regen due to cold battery.
> View attachment 30451


Agree this comes up MUCH more than it used to... it does make sense now that regen is used more.


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## JWardell

airj1012 said:


> New visualizations outside of v10? Do we know what they look like besides this statement?
> 
> Although I'm not a huge fan of Smart Summon, probably won't use it all that often, its great that there is an increased rollout of the feature. More data!


I think that means construction/traffic cone visualization is HW3 only


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## airj1012

JWardell said:


> I think that means construction/traffic cone visualization is HW3 only


Interesting. I didn't think that was the case, but I didn't know any better. Just didn't see any HW3 call outs until this. Wonder if anyone here can confirm.


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## iChris93

A bug I noticed.
My profile defaulted to the Hold driving mode and was like that for several drives. Switched driver profiles then back to mine and it had reset to standard regen instead of hold.
Also, I cannot believe the car still centers with a on-ramp merge lane. All the merge lanes in California must be striped.


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## bernie

The new hold feature works great for me in hilly San Francisco - you do need to practice and go slow for steep hills. I really like backing into my Very narrow garage now as the car moves slower and controlling the movement with one pedal makes it a breeze.

The brake blending is very smooth. 
I do feel like the extra 5% power is there.

update: NOA continues to be problematic keeping the car in the center of the lane during turns - it has twice now gone over well marked yellow and white lines and driving over box dots.


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## tencate

bernie said:


> The brake blending is very smooth.


Spent the morning driving around, all "one pedal" driving. My compliments to the team that implemented this! VERY well done and it took almost no time to adapt to driving this way either  I worried a bit that my Michelin X-ice might confuse it but that doesn't seem to be the case. Kudos Tesla!


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## Chanathan

Anyone w/ lr rwd receive this yet?


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## victor

Chanathan said:


> Anyone w/ lr rwd receive this yet?


Yes, me. Yesterday.


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## tencate

Chanathan said:


> Anyone w/ lr rwd receive this yet?


Yes, I have. Check my "signature" and... here's a plug for everyone to add a single signature line on their posting, don't go crazy or the mods won't like you, but something simple is helpful.


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## NR4P

Many of the folks state they are doing one pedal driving. I have the sw and feature on but if I don't press the brake pedal, the car will slowly go through red lights and stop signs. 

What am I missing?


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## aronth5

NR4P said:


> Many of the folks state they are doing one pedal driving. I have the sw and feature on but if I don't press the brake pedal, the car will slowly go through red lights and stop signs.
> 
> What am I missing?


Did you update the new stopping mode setting?


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## FRC

NR4P said:


> Many of the folks state they are doing one pedal driving. I have the sw and feature on but if I don't press the brake pedal, the car will slowly go through red lights and stop signs.
> 
> What am I missing?


Sounds like you're still in creep mode.


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## GDN

Jason Krellner said:


> One suggested edit:
> 
> - Scheduled Departure (helpful if you have time of use electricity pricing or live in a cold weather climate)
> 
> I am looking forward to having full regen in the mornings!


You might if you leave early. Charging will end about 5:30. As cold as you get there and especially if not in a garage this isn't going to help a lot. It is meant more for cheap electricity. If you leave by 6:30 you'll get regen benefits likely too. If you leave much later than that on a cold morning you'll still have a cold battery. Maybe a warm cabin, but a cold battery. If you want it to end charging near your leave time and it isn't 6 AM, then you need Teslafi or another app.


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## Jason Krellner

GDN said:


> You might if you leave early. Charging will end about 5:30. As cold as you get there and especially if not in a garage this isn't going to help a lot. It is meant more for cheap electricity. If you leave by 6:30 you'll get regen benefits likely too. If you leave much later than that on a cold morning you'll still have a cold battery. Maybe a warm cabin, but a cold battery. If you want it to end charging near your leave time and it isn't 6 AM, then you need Teslafi or another app.


Agreed, good point. If I leave later, I have Tasker bump up the charge limit and start a charge. I haven't fine-tuned how much time is needed to have full regen.

I wish Tesla let US tell the car when to stop charging. I have variable rates, but mine don't typically go up until 8am or so (if at all in the winter).


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## Kizzy

iChris93 said:


> A bug I noticed.
> My profile defaulted to the Hold driving mode and was like that for several drives. Switched driver profiles then back to mine and it had reset to standard regen instead of hold.
> Also, I cannot believe the car still centers with a on-ramp merge lane. All the merge lanes in California must be striped.


The merge lanes in the Bay Area are definitely not striped to indicate the through vs. shrinking merge lane. I don't understand how this behavior is still a thing. I've noticed a few places where NoA may try to avoid those spots maybe.

Following up on my earlier query in the 2019.36.1 thread: I was paying closer attention to when the display renders cars in opposing lanes. It might have a bias to display them when the car is in curves, but sometimes they appear outside of curves and it doesn't always capture them all accurately. I don't believe it's speed dependent.

I have AP hardware 2.5.


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## MelindaV

GDN said:


> You might if you leave early. Charging will end about 5:30. As cold as you get there and especially if not in a garage this isn't going to help a lot. It is meant more for cheap electricity. If you leave by 6:30 you'll get regen benefits likely too. If you leave much later than that on a cold morning you'll still have a cold battery. Maybe a warm cabin, but a cold battery. If you want it to end charging near your leave time and it isn't 6 AM, then you need Teslafi or another app.


Or just manually set your charge start time, estimating when it'll finish, like we've been doing for the last couple years.


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## NR4P

FRC said:


> Sounds like you're still in creep mode.


I was in correct mode. A reboot yesterday evening fixed it. Should have tried that first.

Now that it is working backing down a 100' driveway with a small decline is a little odd. Gotta keep giving it juice.


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## Jason Krellner

NR4P said:


> I was in correct mode. A reboot yesterday evening fixed it. Should have tried that first.
> 
> Now that it is working backing down a 100' driveway with a small decline is a little odd. Gotta keep giving it juice.


I think we should get a movement going online to get Tesla to enable creep in reverse, while keeping stop mode in drive.


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## GDN

MelindaV said:


> Or just manually set your charge start time, estimating when it'll finish, like we've been doing for the last couple years.


Setting manually is an easy solution and will likely work for many, but I've never used that.

I thought I "borrowed" the settings from you on Teslafi last year, but maybe it was @Bokonon - sorry for whoever I'm not giving credit. I've used this method last winter allowing Teslafi to control my charging and warming of the cabin routine 5 days a week. It was perfect for battery charging/conditioning and cabin heating.

I know this is veering close to off topic for the SW build, but it can help newer friends to the board understand the differences and how Tesla should be implementing time control for charging. This is the first attempt for them, but one shoe doesn't fit all in this area. They will continue to enhance this I'm sure.

Here are my Teslafi commands. Ignore a few of them, notice there is no check mark, those were special one time use commands and are not active on a weekly basis.

Basically I wake the car up and set the charging limit to 80% at 3:58 AM. Then 2 days a week I leave the house at 6:15, so at 6 AM I set the HVAC and 3 days I leave closer to 7:15.

Then at 11 AM I wake the car and set the charging limit to something fairly low. I do this so when I get home in the evening and plug in it won't start charging. I don't want that to happen until the middle of the night.

My daily commute is just under 40 miles, but with the heater, sentry and maybe extra driving I almost always need more than 2 hours of charging. Some days it shuts off early, the days I leave the house later it catches up.


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## Jason Krellner

TeslaFi doesn't work great for those of us that don't leave at the same time every morning, or who find ourselves with dramatically different battery levels when we get home at the end of a day. My only solution is to use Tasker, which requires me to remember when to tell the car to start doing the stuff I want it to do. I was hoping the "scheduled departure" would help with this.

What would be AWESOME would be a solution where you could set whatever departure time you want in the app, and the car would act accordingly. You could check a box acknowledging that higher electricity rates may apply, if Tesla is worried about being blamed for a high electric bill...


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## Jarettp

Jason Krellner said:


> TeslaFi doesn't work great for those of us that don't leave at the same time every morning, or who find ourselves with dramatically different battery levels when we get home at the end of a day. My only solution is to use Tasker, which requires me to remember when to tell the car to start doing the stuff I want it to do. I was hoping the "scheduled departure" would help with this.
> 
> What would be AWESOME would be a solution where you could set whatever departure time you want in the app, and the car would act accordingly. You could check a box acknowledging that higher electricity rates may apply, if Tesla is worried about being blamed for a high electric bill...


I'm no current user of tasker but couldn't you get that done through conditional tasks?


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## Jason Krellner

Jarettp said:


> I'm no current user of tasker but couldn't you get that done through conditional tasks?


It's complicated to set up, but yes - mine are a combo of conditions and user input. It can't be truly automated, because at some point it needs to know when I plan to go to work.


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## theclam

Model 3 AWD

One pedal driving is perfect - LOVE IT! - my son has a Chevy Bolt and it is one of two features we did not have in our Tesla's. The other is the top down view of a parking space which is very cool, wish we had that!

I believe I can feel the 5% HP improvement. I feel it @ 10mph+, I can feel it pull harder all the way through!

Auto-Navigate works great.

Scheduled heating and charging seems to work well - I do not have day/evening electric rates in my area so the 6am thing should be an optional setting.


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## skygraff

Chanathan said:


> Anyone w/ lr rwd receive this yet?


Just used my app to open the frunk and saw that it now shows the downloading progress. I will install as soon as it's available and look forward to one pedal (hope it solves some other minor bugs but not holding breath).


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## sduck

Apparently they flipped the switch on rolling this version out - a ton of new installs this afternoon. I'm one of them.


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## 2Kap

Butt dyno definitely notices the power increase, even with my battery only currently at 55%, and it keeps pulling past 60mph.

It’s going to take some time to get the timing down for 1 pedal driving. I had It down for just standard regenerative braking but with 1 pedal it’s a lot more aggressive.

there is also an audible click that is pretty noticeable when the hold engages that will probably get annoying after a while. especially in situations when you have to inch forward and stop repeatedly, like in traffic. 

looks like they made a slight update to the driving visualization as well.


----------



## Smokey S

Here are the update screenshots:


----------



## Lgkahn

I thought we were getting increased range . Not in this release?


----------



## Jason F

Lgkahn said:


> I thought we were getting increased range . Not in this release?


I don't think it is like before where it will increase the EPA mileage estimate but was just a comment that more aggressive regen will increase range.


----------



## Jason F

I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but it sounds like scheduled charging end time is pretty much useless unless you want to leave at or before 6am.


----------



## airj1012

Guys/gals, please only post if you have something valuable to say. No need to clutter up the forum with claims that you've just gotten the software but haven't tested anything yet. That's really not too helpful. Just noise to filter out.


----------



## airj1012

JWardell said:


> Starting to see some features for HW3 only:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1193166551513477120


I REALLY wanted this to be not true. However I just tested it out for myself and confirmed that I was not able to see cones on my screen with HW2.5 Granted this is at night, but I don't think that should matter. Hopefully they'll start to ramp up HW3 retrofit soon.










I really like HOLD mode while driving on hills. The big feature will be when it essentially turns on adaptive cruise control by itself to exert just the right amount of energy to get you right behind the car in front of you. Not sure that I'm a fan of HOLD when in reverse as others have mentioned. Going to take a bit to get used to it.


----------



## M3OC Rules

I just got it before the drive home. Fantastic. I love the one-pedal driving. Autopilot was weaving around in the lane a bit but I'm sure that will clear up. Did I mention I love the one-pedal driving?


----------



## iChris93

airj1012 said:


> Guys/gals, please only post if you have something valuable to say. No need to clutter up the forum with claims that you've just gotten the software but haven't tested anything yet. That's really not too helpful. Just noise to filter out.


If we do not catch something, please report it and we will do our best to clear things up.


----------



## shareef777

Jason Krellner said:


> One suggested edit:
> 
> - Scheduled Departure (helpful if you have time of use electricity pricing or live in a cold weather climate)
> 
> I am looking forward to having full regen in the mornings!


Yes! Full regen and regen till stop with single pedal driving arrives just as the temps drop and snowfall begins in Chicago. Awesome!


----------



## 3V Pilot

Love this update and seems like the acceleration is really improved. Anyone have a chance to Vbox the new 0-60 times? I'd love to know what a single motor long range can do at this point. Also has anyone had any luck with the "Automatic Navigation"? I have not seen that work but it's turned on in settings.


----------



## Chanathan

3V Pilot said:


> Love this update and seems like the acceleration is really improved. Anyone have a chance to Vbox the new 0-60 times? I'd love to know what a single motor long range can do at this point. Also has anyone had any luck with the "Automatic Navigation"? I have not seen that work but it's turned on in settings.


It should happen tomorrow morning and route you to work then in the afternoon route you to home.


----------



## NR4P

3V Pilot said:


> Love this update and seems like the acceleration is really improved. Anyone have a chance to Vbox the new 0-60 times? I'd love to know what a single motor long range can do at this point. Also has anyone had any luck with the "Automatic Navigation"? I have not seen that work but it's turned on in settings.


When I started to leave the garage this morning, the car showed me the route it thought best. 3 miles longer than normal and as I detoured to my preferred route, it added 1 minute.

Similar situation on way home. Took longer route by 3 miles and that saved about a minute.

BTW, the Nav selected routes involved toll roads. I do have toll road selected but to save 1 minute each way and add 3 miles each way for about $1.35 each way is not my choice.

But it was an interesting surprise.


----------



## Perscitus

See Teslarati and Electrek for some unscientific side by side accelerations between .32.x and .36.2 as well as Draggy and Vbox reddit threads. 

Looks like almost 0.1 (say 0.08) shaved off of the 0 to 60/100 for those who care for such things.


----------



## NR4P

Jason F said:


> I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but it sounds like scheduled charging end time is pretty much useless unless you want to leave at or before 6am.


I tried charging time set by departure time on Sunday night. At around 8pm I selected leave at 645am weekdays. To my surprise, it started charging immediately. So I changed from weekdays to all days and charging stopped. So first issue is that Sunday night was not seen as a weekday coming Monday morning at 645am. It was Veteran's Day so not sure if that had anything to do with it.

Second issue, it was set for 645am but charging was completed at 542am. So although we don't have TOU metering, it will stop by 6am. Not particularly helpful.


----------



## Laughing Squid

Odd bug happening with new software...it keeps taking away “hold” and reverts to “roll”. I choose “hold” then next time I drive, it’s not working so I go back to driving screen and choices are greyed out so that I can’t choose any mode. See attached pic. It happened both times I drove today. It has not allowed me to drive in “hold” mode since I got the update. I tried a soft reset but it popped up again. I can see traffic cones and schedule charging end time though. Anyone else? I know I can bug report but I’m curious if I’m the only one having the issue.


----------



## MelindaV

Laughing Squid said:


> Odd bug happening with new software...it keeps taking away "hold" and reverts to "roll". I choose "hold" then next time I drive, it's not working so I go back to driving screen and choices are greyed out so that I can't choose any mode. See attached pic. It happened both times I drove today. It has not allowed me to drive in "hold" mode since I got the update. I tried a soft reset but it popped up again. I can see traffic cones and schedule charging end time though. Anyone else? I know I can bug report but I'm curious if I'm the only one having the issue.


it saves with your driver profile. so make sure you are not resetting this under your easy entry profile, but your actual driver profile.


----------



## Laughing Squid

MelindaV said:


> it saves with your driver profile. so make sure you are not resetting this under your easy entry profile, but your actual driver profile.


Thank you, I will check and see if that's an issue.


----------



## JWardell

Finally got it! And immediately went out for some experimentation and logging.
You can read the details here:
https://teslaownersonline.com/threads/diagnostic-port-and-data-access.7502/page-62#post-262996

But bottom line is yes, confirmed 5% power bump (from 254kW to 267kW)
(and remember, this is the second bump...not long ago we were at 245kW max!)


----------



## TheHairyOne

Nice power bump, felt better than last time. Stopping was cool but I always drive too fast and need brakes.

Self check ran for a good while, pumps and fans cycling. Can't wait for the next 3 5% updates


----------



## tgmachine

What about range increase on the Model 3 Long Range AWD? Anyone noticing car using less kwh now, than before the upgrade to 36.2.1 ? Also thinking of the range increase from 310 to 322 miles that Elon said. Maybe he only meant the new models being ordered today?

-tgmachine


----------



## iChris93

Laughing Squid said:


> so I go back to driving screen and choices are greyed out so that I can't choose any mode.


Make sure you're in park. You cannot change modes when in gear.


----------



## FF35

JWardell said:


> Finally got it! And immediately went out for some experimentation and logging.
> You can read the details here:
> https://teslaownersonline.com/threads/diagnostic-port-and-data-access.7502/page-62#post-262996
> 
> But bottom line is yes, confirmed 5% power bump (from 254kW to 267kW)
> (and remember, this is the second bump...not long ago we were at 245kW max!)


Two questions:

1. Is it a direct conversion to horsepower (267kW = 358HP)?

2. What was your SOC when doing this test?


----------



## Baymax

If using the new "Scheduled Departure" charge setting, the documentation states the HVAC is turned on in preparation as well. Assuming you don't depart at the scheduled time, how long will the HVAC run before turning off if you don't get in the car?


----------



## SR22pilot

Jason F said:


> I don't think it is like before where it will increase the EPA mileage estimate but was just a comment that more aggressive regen will increase range.


I disagree. I think Tesla will eventually change the range estimate as long as it applies to older cars. They will change it because customers don't want to buy a new car rated at 322 and get in it and see 310. That will cause a lot of complaints and false service trips. I suspect we have seen part of the power update but not all. Of course this opinion is worth what you paid for it.


----------



## slasher016

I too enjoy the one pedal driving, but reverse is really weird. Especially on my driveway which is a decent downward slope. I have to very uncomfortably hold down the accelerator going down a hill in reverse. Hopefully Tesla changes reverse to be "roll" since I hate creep.


----------



## tencate

SR22pilot said:


> I think Tesla will eventually change the range estimate as long as it applies to older cars. They will change it because customers don't want to buy a new car rated at 322 and get in it and see 310. That will cause a lot of complaints and false service trips. I suspect we have seen part of the power update but not all. Of course this opinion is worth what you paid for it.


Tesla seems to have been playing around with power and range since the Model 3 first hit the streets. When I first got mine, I was recording 0-60 times in the high 4s range and was pretty much seeing the advertised 310 miles of range. Then Tesla standardized everyone and some of us were "nerfed" and the 0-60 times were exactly what was advertised at the time (5s or so), yet with no apparent loss of range (at least in my case). Then there was the another power bump and then the increased range, it's been fun to watch them optimize the car's performance. Makes sense. Our cars are all feeding them reams of data to help make this a highly successful optimization experiment. Great fun


----------



## tivoboy

Got a chance to try it out this morning. First this for sure, the EXTRA power at low speeds. It clearly accelerates faster down low. That’s nice.. now, lets hope they don’t just take it away like they did a while back.

The HOLD/STOP on regen is interesting, will have to get used to it a bit more, but yes, reverse out of a driveway was a bit off the first time having done roll up till now. I’m hoping they will make it adjustable based on direction.

After running to the Starbucks I did hear an odd WHINE in the cabin coming from the front of the car, not sure what that would have been. It went away but I’ll keep on the lookout for it again.

Nice update though, keep em coming


----------



## garsh

I don't understand why people would want hold mode to work differently in reverse than forward. I understand that it's different than roll mode, but I think it will just take some practice to get used to it.


----------



## Major Victory

Just updated yesterday and limted experience so far but I do not feel more power and no change in displayed mile range.

I am wondering if the new regen braking under 5mph will really offer better battery range. 

I/we have likely become so adept at estimating when to take our foot off the accelerator that we roll to a near stop as needed most of the time anyway and use that slight forward momentum preserved to save accelerator energy. I hope that is clear. 

The regen stop feature may capture more decelerator energy but I suspect it is less than the energy we preserved from not coming to a 0mph stop and now will use more energy from 0mph to accelerate than from 2mph for example.


----------



## MelindaV

the release notes state it will only 'hold' once you are at a full stop - so seems the answer to the reverse issue is to make sure you are still rolling


----------



## WonkoTheSane

tgmachine said:


> What about range increase on the Model 3 Long Range AWD? Anyone noticing car using less kwh now, than before the upgrade to 36.2.1 ? Also thinking of the range increase from 310 to 322 miles that Elon said. Maybe he only meant the new models being ordered today?
> 
> -tgmachine


Before the update my range is down to 290 LR AWD. (145 @ 50%). I will watch for range differences in this version.


----------



## GDN

MelindaV said:


> the release notes state it will only 'hold' once you are at a full stop - so seems the answer to the reverse issue is to make sure you are still rolling


I'm on the fence about the reverse. I think it just like everything else we'll get used to it, but it is weird being on the accelarator to make the car move backwards on a downhill slope.

The key here is that if you let off the accelarator regen kicks in even at 2 mph and will bring you to a stop, you don't continue to roll down the slope. If it were steep enough, you might, but not in the majority of situations.

It is about trust and retraining our brain. We have to learn that even backing up, down a hill, you can brake by releasing the accelrator and it will come to a stop and then hold, or if you're moving too fast, then just like going forward you'll need to brake to stop where you want to and hold will still take over.


----------



## MelindaV

GDN said:


> The key here is that if you let off the accelarator regen kicks in even at 2 mph and will bring you to a stop, you don't continue to roll down the slope. If it were steep enough, you might, but not in the majority of situations.


your description reminded me of the times I'd back out of my garage in reverse, then for whatever reason would stop in the driveway (maybe putting garbage can out), and get back in the car and back into the street with the clutch pushed in - then release the clutch and hit the gas as it started to slow too much to get into the street, only to realize it was in 1st not reverse and start back up the driveway . it always caused a moment of WTF are we moving forward when clearly we should be going backward?!


----------



## airj1012

Granted a haven't put the pedal to the metal after this update, but I think claims of being able to feel the 5% accelerator difference is a bit outlandish. It's 5%! Thats such a tiny change for a car that goes 0-60 in 5 seconds, or even less than that if you have performance. I don't doubt that Tesla made the improvements, but I'm surprised that people can really "feel" the difference. Granted I'm a hypocrite for not having tried before posting, but it just sounds quite odd.


----------



## Mr. Spacely

If the SR+ used to go 0-60 in 5.25 sec. It now does it in 4.98. That seems like enough to be noticable to me...


----------



## MelindaV

Mr. Spacely said:


> If the SR+ used to go 0-60 in 5.25 sec. It now does it in 4.98. That seems like enough to be noticable to me...


a 5% power increase is not a 5% 0-60 decrease.


----------



## Vin

I haven't really tested the power increase (raining today), but I'm happy that my car's power was increased a total of 10% since delivery last July! I did notice, however, in the rain today it felt like it was ploughing through a little easier (usually in rain the car was a little slower due to traction control or nature of driving through wet streets). It just seemed to cut through the rain easier.

The one-pedal driving is great now that I'm used to it (but took some time when in parking lot or situations where I used some roll for small maneuvers).
In stop and go traffic it's so smooth and seems easier to follow behind cars (almost like all slow speed regen was smoothed out) so there's less jerkyness if a car in front slows down suddenly. It's more relaxing to not have to press the brake down even every time even just to put it in hold. That little thing adds up, and is more relaxing now, where I can drive 99% of the time without ever having to use my brakes.

My friend just took delivery of his 3 Sat and yesterday he texted me "did you get the new update?" We both received it at the same time. It was like xmas. We've all said it a million times, "what car gets better over time?!"


----------



## tivoboy

airj1012 said:


> Granted a haven't put the pedal to the metal after this update, but I think claims of being able to feel the 5% accelerator difference is a bit outlandish. It's 5%! Thats such a tiny change for a car that goes 0-60 in 5 seconds, or even less than that if you have performance. I don't doubt that Tesla made the improvements, but I'm surprised that people can really "feel" the difference. Granted I'm a hypocrite for not having tried before posting, but it just sounds quite odd.


Really depends on where they put more or less of the emphasis. Having driven 100's of cars from a model T to full blown track only race cars- there is certainly something in the lower speed acceleration in this update.


----------



## tencate

GDN said:


> It is about trust and retraining our brain. We have to learn that even backing up, down a hill, you can brake by releasing the accelrator and it will come to a stop and then hold, or if you're moving too fast, then just like going forward you'll need to brake to stop where you want to and hold will still take over.


Just like when we started to play that Beach Buggy Racing game. NOT using the GO pedal but the brake pedal was weird


----------



## JWardell

tgmachine said:


> What about range increase on the Model 3 Long Range AWD? Anyone noticing car using less kwh now, than before the upgrade to 36.2.1 ? Also thinking of the range increase from 310 to 322 miles that Elon said. Maybe he only meant the new models being ordered today?
> 
> -tgmachine


Model 3 LR theoretical range was definitely bumped in the early spring when this was announced, and hasn't been changed since. The range you personally see depends on a bunch of additional factors including temperatures, driving, and chemistry...all over time. But it would report a lower range if you were back on v8 firmware before the bump.



FF35 said:


> Two questions:
> 
> 1. Is it a direct conversion to horsepower (267kW = 358HP)?
> 
> 2. What was your SOC when doing this test?


No, that is electrical power. There is a separate message for mechanical power, as well as torque...I have to look closer to see how those changed. They are a bit more limited by traction and other physical states. The hard electrical power limit is what they have been raising here and in the past.
My tests are almost always in the high 70%s as I Charge to 80 each day. You might see more torque, or not, with a higher SOC, but the hard electrical power limit you will reach at almost any battery level and is the best signal to look at.



slasher016 said:


> I too enjoy the one pedal driving, but reverse is really weird. Especially on my driveway which is a decent downward slope. I have to very uncomfortably hold down the accelerator going down a hill in reverse. Hopefully Tesla changes reverse to be "roll" since I hate creep.


It is very different at first! But you get get used to it in a few tries. Just like you adapted when switching from your last car to this one. I think this new mode is much safer as there is much less chance of the car rolling away when unexpected (for anyone driving it for the first time etc) and saves the time moving to the brake. Or even mistaking jamming the accelerator and crashing into something...



Major Victory said:


> Just updated yesterday and limted experience so far but I do not feel more power and no change in displayed mile range.
> 
> I am wondering if the new regen braking under 5mph will really offer better battery range.
> 
> I/we have likely become so adept at estimating when to take our foot off the accelerator that we roll to a near stop as needed most of the time anyway and use that slight forward momentum preserved to save accelerator energy. I hope that is clear.
> 
> The regen stop feature may capture more decelerator energy but I suspect it is less than the energy we preserved from not coming to a 0mph stop and now will use more energy from 0mph to accelerate than from 2mph for example.


I don't think the regen below 5mph will do anything for additional range. They probably have other small improvements and tweaks that may help that. Below 5mph you are already below a few kW of regen. In fact additional energy is used to get to zero if you are on any sort of incline, and to hold the car still electrically while the brakes engage.

If they are blending brakes at all (still not sure, might be purely electrical), it is not noticeable, until a full second after reaching zero, when hold activates on the screen and you can feel the brake pedal physically moving forward. Again, that is a 1+ seconds after you stop.



Vin said:


> I haven't really tested the power increase (raining today), but I'm happy that my car's power was increased a total of 10% since delivery last July! I did notice, however, in the rain today it felt like it was ploughing through a little easier (usually in rain the car was a little slower due to traction control or nature of driving through wet streets). It just seemed to cut through the rain easier.
> 
> The one-pedal driving is great now that I'm used to it (but took some time when in parking lot or situations where I used some roll for small maneuvers).
> In stop and go traffic it's so smooth and seems easier to follow behind cars (almost like all slow speed regen was smoothed out) so there's less jerkyness if a car in front slows down suddenly. It's more relaxing to not have to press the brake down even every time even just to put it in hold. That little thing adds up, and is more relaxing now, where I can drive 99% of the time without ever having to use my brakes.
> 
> My friend just took delivery of his 3 Sat and yesterday he texted me "did you get the new update?" We both received it at the same time. It was like xmas. We've all said it a million times, "what car gets better over time?!"


If roads are wet at all, you won't have enough traction to experience the full power of this or any previous update. They can't change the physics of traction. Although if you find you are able to drive the car smoother, well then that certainly will help reduce chances of slipping 
Anyone interested can look at my first v10 log which was recorded on slightly damp roads, and you can see traction limiting every attempt of flooring it, both from as stop as well as from speed. That's in fact why I ran out to perform tests after midnight last night because I knew we had rain and record cold weather on the way. Good data is more important than sleep


----------



## Jason F

MelindaV said:


> the release notes state it will only 'hold' once you are at a full stop - so seems the answer to the reverse issue is to make sure you are still rolling


The reverse regen/braking is so strong is the issue while traveling at low speeds out of your garage also it is blending the brakes in at low speeds, not just when stopped. When I left this morning I had no regen because I was about 99% charged and it was very cold. I had all dots. Still when backing out the braking engaged strong while rolling down the drive way. So really a lot or all of the < 5 mph braking is not regen and is all brakes.


----------



## Jason F

Tested departure time today. Set it for 630am. Charging ended at about 545, so like the notes say, they aim for 6am and are even a little conservative. The heat came on automatically at around 610. Hopefully they can remove their assumption about TOU pricing in the next release. It also had automatically setup navigation for work.


----------



## skygraff

Agree about the TOU assumption and hope they do a smarter version of that for locales/utilities that use different methods.

I might get chastised for this but, while I haven’t had a chance to test the features (still no range improvement and voice commands for playing songs/stations still only bring up search screen), I had a weird experience post install: while reading the release notes about scheduled departures, I noticed that the system was making noises like it was warming the battery and my UMC’s lights were cycling even though the scheduled charge time was still set for 4am (never changed it).

I tried the brake and thumbs, tried disconnecting BT and walking away, tried a power off while sitting in the driver seat, then, finally, unplugged and tried another power off which eventually resulted in the system noise stopping. When I plugged back in, the UMC lights were solid green and my T was blue so charging was still scheduled (verified charge complete this morning). By the way, it was doing this even though my SOC was at target; battery was just cold so maybe it thought I was going somewhere and was preconditioning.

I know that FW updates sometimes require a reset but I haven’t usually had issues. If this behavior is even a little “common” following the update related to scheduled departure (guessing that’s the culprit code), it could cost others some unnecessary grid energy if they don’t notice it. That said, I don’t know for certain that the power off was required so it’s possible the problem would resolve itself after unplugging and, I guess, driving.


----------



## GaryW

I received this update last night and based on my initial test this morning I do see a increase in performance at low speeds at least at the moment. I also encountered a weird bug I believe when I was driving on the highway. When I increased the volume via the steering wheel( I was using phone Bluetooth to play music) the music volume would increase and then soon after the volume would go back down to where I was previously. I even raised it, looked at my phone and a few seconds later could see the phone volume dot moving towards the left like I was lowering volume which I wasn't. It was weird and I have no clue why that would occur. I've never experienced that before. Btw I'm using an iPhone if that helps if anyone want test.


----------



## Long Ranger

garsh said:


> I don't understand why people would want hold mode to work differently in reverse than forward. I understand that it's different than roll mode, but I think it will just take some practice to get used to it.


For many of us, I think it's the difference in our typical scenarios when driving slowly forward vs. slowly in reverse. When slowing going forward, I'm almost always approaching a stop and would be switching to the brake, but when slowing going backwards, I'm often then switching to go forward and don't need the brake.

I think most of the complaints are from those of us with sloped driveways that we back out of. I have a steep, blind driveway with a sidewalk at the bottom. I need to back down very slowly and be ready to stop quickly if there's a pedestrian. I find that really tricky with this regen to 0. I have to lightly touch the accelerator to avoid stopping mid-slope, but when I let off the accelerator, it doesn't stop quickly enough for a hazard. I'll probably try shifting to neutral and then cover the brake like I did when it could roll in reverse.

I like the hold mode when going forward and found it really easy to use, including on hills. But I'm usually coming to a stop on those hills, not creeping across a sidewalk and into the street like I am when going in reverse.


----------



## iChris93

skygraff said:


> Agree about the TOU assumption and hope they do a smarter version of that for locales/utilities that use different methods.
> 
> I might get chastised for this but, while I haven't had a chance to test the features (still no range improvement and voice commands for playing songs/stations still only bring up search screen), I had a weird experience post install: while reading the release notes about scheduled departures, I noticed that the system was making noises like it was warming the battery and my UMC's lights were cycling even though the scheduled charge time was still set for 4am (never changed it).
> 
> I tried the brake and thumbs, tried disconnecting BT and walking away, tried a power off while sitting in the driver seat, then, finally, unplugged and tried another power off which eventually resulted in the system noise stopping. When I plugged back in, the UMC lights were solid green and my T was blue so charging was still scheduled (verified charge complete this morning). By the way, it was doing this even though my SOC was at target; battery was just cold so maybe it thought I was going somewhere and was preconditioning.
> 
> I know that FW updates sometimes require a reset but I haven't usually had issues. If this behavior is even a little "common" following the update related to scheduled departure (guessing that's the culprit code), it could cost others some unnecessary grid energy if they don't notice it. That said, I don't know for certain that the power off was required so it's possible the problem would resolve itself after unplugging and, I guess, driving.


Usually if you're in the car, running climate control, the car will source the power for that from the grid.


----------



## M3OC Rules

shareef777 said:


> Yes! Full regen and regen till stop with single pedal driving arrives just as the temps drop and snowfall begins in Chicago. Awesome!


Losing regen when its cold does kind of wreck it. Perhaps they should emulate full regen by adding brakes so it works the same when it is cold but not slippery.


----------



## garsh

Long Ranger said:


> I think most of the complaints are from those of us with sloped driveways that we back out of. I have a steep, blind driveway with a sidewalk at the bottom. I need to back down very slowly and be ready to stop quickly if there's a pedestrian. I find that really tricky with this regen to 0. I have to lightly touch the accelerator to avoid stopping mid-slope, but when I let off the accelerator, it doesn't stop quickly enough for a hazard.


Ok, so you'd prefer the car to be free-rolling, so that you can control the speed _completely_ with the brake, allowing you to also quickly stop it with the brake pedal if necessary.
That makes sense.


----------



## garsh

M3OC Rules said:


> Losing regen when its cold does kind of wreck it. Perhaps they should emulate full regen by adding brakes so it works the same when it is cold but not slippery.


Not by adding brakes!
By adding _*resistors*_!
No need to figure out brake blending (NOBODY does that well), and you get the exact same pedal feel as regeneration, *AND* you don't wear out your brake pads! 



garsh said:


> I'd still like to see an EV that adds rheostatic dynamic braking for those times when regenerative braking can't accept full current, just to keep the pedal feel identical at all times.


----------



## tipton

Jason F said:


> Tested departure time today. Set it for 630am. Charging ended at about 545, so like the notes say, they aim for 6am and are even a little conservative. The heat came on automatically at around 610. Hopefully they can remove their assumption about TOU pricing in the next release. It also had automatically setup navigation for work.


yes, i got the update last night and didn't have to leave the house till around 12:15 today. set the car to be ready at 12:15. it stopped charging at 5:30 in the morning and though the heat did come on my battery wasn't heated up and I didn't have full regen. I guess if you don't have full regen the one pedal driving doesn't work because it was greyed out for me even though i set it up after the update.


----------



## iChris93

tipton said:


> I guess if you don't have full regen the one pedal driving doesn't work because it was greyed out for me even though i set it up after the update.


You have to be in park to enable it. It should not be greyed out due to temperature of pack, AFAIK.


----------



## Needsdecaf

Long Ranger said:


> For many of us, I think it's the difference in our typical scenarios when driving slowly forward vs. slowly in reverse. When slowing going forward, I'm almost always approaching a stop and would be switching to the brake, but when slowing going backwards, I'm often then switching to go forward and don't need the brake.
> 
> *I think most of the complaints are from those of us with sloped driveways that we back out of.* I have a steep, blind driveway with a sidewalk at the bottom. I need to back down very slowly and be ready to stop quickly if there's a pedestrian. I find that really tricky with this regen to 0. I have to lightly touch the accelerator to avoid stopping mid-slope, but when I let off the accelerator, it doesn't stop quickly enough for a hazard. I'll probably try shifting to neutral and then cover the brake like I did when it could roll in reverse.
> 
> I like the hold mode when going forward and found it really easy to use, including on hills. But I'm usually coming to a stop on those hills, not creeping across a sidewalk and into the street like I am when going in reverse.


I just got this update at work and tried it out at lunchtime. I disagree that only people with sloped driveways are going to complain. I noticed a very big difference just backing out of the parking space from the place I got lunch. I'm sure I'll get used to it, but just normal reversing is now different.

I would also say that the 5-0 stopping isn't quite as strong as I'd like it. It feels like it is coasting to a stop almost and then applying hold. Having allowed the car to roll in Neutral for long distances before (holy crap this car has like zero rolling resistance), I know that it actually is slowing via braking or regen. But it doesn't seem to be linear. Seems like the braking force lets up after regen dies, although it's still there.

I asked in another thread, but I'll put it here as well: does anyone think that regen overall all is slightly stronger? Felt that way to me but I only drove it maybe 6 miles with limited stopping so could be in my head.


----------



## Emerald AP

After my 36.2 install last night, my car threw up a low air pressure warning at 40 psi this morning! I know early cars (incl. mine) had the door sticker stating 42 and some say 40 and 45, but I've only had the warning come on at 37 psi over the last year and a half (the one time this happened).

I suppose we'd have to add more air every three weeks in the winter to have the warning not show up (I don't inflate beyond 45 due to bumpy ride feel). I'm hoping that the warning just goes away when they revise the TPMS warning thresholds (imagine this is sw related as not much else changed on my car overnight)...


----------



## Emerald AP

A question: has anyone (whose brain is more scientifically endowed than mine) been able to test whether AP uses brakes less often now with the car in "Hold" mode? One mostly annoying niggle of AP (vs. my manual driving) was its higher tendency to engage friction brakes, as opposed to regen for slowing down. I could always feel the car pressing the brakes so I could tell when this happened. Roads were wet this morning so I haven't dared to conduct any unscientific experiments on this yet.


----------



## Needsdecaf

garsh said:


> Not by adding brakes!
> By adding _*resistors*_!
> No need to figure out brake blending (NOBODY does that well), and you get the exact same pedal feel as regeneration, *AND* you don't wear out your brake pads!


I'm looking forward to driving the Porsche Taycan. Their pedal is 100% blended since there is normally no regen with lift off. Plus they have 265kW (?) of regen ability. I'm interested in seeing how it drives. They've been working on this since around 2013 for the 918 Spyder, so they have some good data. And supposedly the 918 has very natural feeling brakes.


----------



## slasher016

Needsdecaf said:


> I just got this update at work and tried it out at lunchtime. I disagree that only people with sloped driveways are going to complain. I noticed a very big difference just backing out of the parking space from the place I got lunch. I'm sure I'll get used to it, but just normal reversing is now different.
> 
> I would also say that the 5-0 stopping isn't quite as strong as I'd like it. It feels like it is coasting to a stop almost and then applying hold. Having allowed the car to roll in Neutral for long distances before (holy crap this car has like zero rolling resistance), I know that it actually is slowing via braking or regen. But it doesn't seem to be linear. Seems like the braking force lets up after regen dies, although it's still there.
> 
> I asked in another thread, but I'll put it here as well: does anyone think that regen overall all is slightly stronger? Felt that way to me but I only drove it maybe 6 miles with limited stopping so could be in my head.


Once I get full regen again I'll give my impressions. But when it's 14 degrees outside...


----------



## francoisp

Emerald AP said:


> After my 36.2 install last night, my car threw up a low air pressure warning at 40 psi this morning! I know early cars (incl. mine) had the door sticker stating 42 and some say 40 and 45, but I've only had the warning come on at 37 psi over the last year and a half (the one time this happened).
> 
> I suppose we'd have to add more air every three weeks in the winter to have the warning not show up (I don't inflate beyond 45 due to bumpy ride feel). I'm hoping that the warning just goes away when they revise the TPMS warning thresholds (imagine this is sw related as not much else changed on my car overnight)...


You can recalibrate your tpms sensors at a lower pressure.


----------



## Deadbattery

Super update... One pedal is cool. I was one pedal driving anyway. I let the car change my driving to slow down matching regen and allowing enough time to roll such that I rarely needed to touch the brake at all. This update is even better.

Power boost is real, ;-)

I look forward to utility aware departure time algorithms or utility blind (won't assume changing rates) We pay 23 cents here in MA for electrons (HIGHEST IN THE COUNTRY, God save us) all the time.

No cones for me, I was hoping, but have to wait for the hardware upgrade.


----------



## tipton

iChris93 said:


> You have to be in park to enable it. It should not be greyed out due to temperature of pack, AFAIK.


ok, then i guess it just doesn't work without full regen? i just went into the menu to make sure it was on while driving, it was selected but greyed out so you couldn't make any changes unless in park like you said.


----------



## francoisp

Spotify has been working flawlessly for me so far with this release.


----------



## iChris93

tipton said:


> ok, then i guess it just doesn't work without full regen? i just went into the menu to make sure it was on while driving, it was selected but greyed out so you couldn't make any changes unless in park like you said.


It should be working. It doesn't add friction braking until the very last few feet so it does not seem too different until the stop.


----------



## skygraff

iChris93 said:


> Usually if you're in the car, running climate control, the car will source the power for that from the grid.


Climate control was off.

Sorry I didn't mention that but, since I commented that it seemed to be battery warming sounds, I guess I thought it was a given (bad assumption during editing of my post).


----------



## Emerald AP

FrancoisP said:


> You can recalibrate your tpms sensors at a lower pressure.


I tried resetting the sensors and the values on the screen and so far, no luck with getting rid of the warning. Previously the warnings came on at a point where the pressure was borderline low (37 psi), I seriously doubt 40 is low enough for the sensors to have to throw up warnings.


----------



## Mike

MelindaV said:


> Last time mine did something similar, the car appeared to have a wifi connection, but my wifi extender was offline and it wasnt actually connected to the outside world. so the car was indeed connected to the wifi, the wifi wasnt connected to anything useful.


My car is responding to my inputs on the app and my phone does not have a data plan, so I know the car is receiving useful wifi information.


----------



## slasher016

One thing I do want to note, if anyone else was having this problem. This most recent update before this one (2019.32.11.1 for me), my phone was a little slow to recognize and unlock the door. It's been fine for a long time until the most recent update. This update seems to have fixed that back to normal (instantaneous unlock.) For reference I'm using a Pixel 3 XL.


----------



## Long Ranger

Emerald AP said:


> After my 36.2 install last night, my car threw up a low air pressure warning at 40 psi this morning! I know early cars (incl. mine) had the door sticker stating 42 and some say 40 and 45, but I've only had the warning come on at 37 psi over the last year and a half (the one time this happened).
> 
> I suppose we'd have to add more air every three weeks in the winter to have the warning not show up (I don't inflate beyond 45 due to bumpy ride feel). I'm hoping that the warning just goes away when they revise the TPMS warning thresholds (imagine this is sw related as not much else changed on my car overnight)...


Right after installing the first v10 build (2019.32.10?) I got the low tire pressure warning at 39 and 40 psi. Wasn't sure if it was related to a software change, but I just attributed it to a drop in temps and I hadn't been checking tires. Added air to 42 psi and the warning went away.


----------



## Klaus-rf

Drove with 36.2.1 today and one VERY ANNOYING thing I noticed is that I cannot move the car at all if the drivers door is open. It immediately goes into "P" when the door is opened.

Grrr...

EDIT:
Figured it out. If I set driving mode back to Creep, the previous functionality is back - can inch forward/backward with door open. Does NOT auto-force Park.

However if the new Driving mode setting of Hold is engaged, it forces Park whenever the drivers door ( haven't tested other doors ! ) is opened. New behavior.


----------



## Sumiguchi

Klaus-rf said:


> Drove with 36.2.1 today and one VERY ANNOYING thing I noticed is that I cannot move the car at all if the drivers door is open. It immediately goes into "P" when the door is opened.
> 
> Grrr...


Super curious to know why this is annoying?!? You drive around with the door open often?


----------



## Sumiguchi

slasher016 said:


> One thing I do want to note, if anyone else was having this problem. This most recent update before this one (2019.32.11.1 for me), my phone was a little slow to recognize and unlock the door. It's been fine for a long time until the most recent update. This update seems to have fixed that back to normal (instantaneous unlock.) For reference I'm using a Pixel 3 XL.


In my experience, this has always been fixed by rebooting my phone. I have an iphone 7 though which is getting a little long in the tooth...


----------



## DarkNRG

I didn’t get the update until I opened the software version page in the car. It said “checking for updates” below the current version, and started to download this one. Installing it now. I don’t know if that kickstarted it, but it can’t hurt to try.


----------



## Long Ranger

Klaus-rf said:


> Drove with 36.2.1 today and one VERY ANNOYING thing I noticed is that I cannot move the car at all if the drivers door is open. It immediately goes into "P" when the door is opened.
> 
> Grrr...


Or alternatively... Glad to hear they fixed the Park on door open bug! The car has always gone into Park when opening the driver's door to prevent rollaway, but there were reports that this became unreliable in V10.


----------



## Rick59

Ok, this sucks. It looks like every post on this topic is from Model 3 owners. Just installed 36.2.1 on my X and NO FULL REGEN. What gives? Why not? Any other X owners get shortchanged on this one?


----------



## Klaus-rf

Sumiguchi said:


> Super curious to know why this is annoying?!? You drive around with the door open often?


 More - don't "drive around with the door open" but I do inch forwards and/or backwards when parking, especially in my garage. At least I used to.

I have position marks on the floor - minimum and max positions as my garage is within inches in the front and rear of the car when properly positioned.

So I pull in, stop, open the door and look down to get positioning. With ALL previous firmware versions the car would stay in D and allow me to inch forwards - creep mode - (or switch to R and inch back-ards). All with door slightly open and me still in seat, with belt latched.

Now it forces P on display and will not allow selection of D or R until the door is closed.


----------



## Klaus-rf

Long Ranger said:


> Or alternatively... Glad to hear they fixed the Park on door open bug! The car has always gone into Park when opening the driver's door to prevent rollaway, but there were reports that this became unreliable in V10.


 It has gone into Park with driver no longer in seat -it was NOT triggered by the door being open. At least - for me - until 2019.36.2.1. I've never had that happen in previously.


----------



## MelindaV

Rick59 said:


> Ok, this sucks. It looks like every post on this topic is from Model 3 owners. Just installed 36.2.1 on my X and NO FULL REGEN. What gives? Why not? Any other X owners get shortchanged on this one?


its because you have a different type of motor than the PM motors the 3 has


----------



## 3V Pilot

slasher016 said:


> One thing I do want to note, if anyone else was having this problem. This most recent update before this one (2019.32.11.1 for me), my phone was a little slow to recognize and unlock the door. It's been fine for a long time until the most recent update. This update seems to have fixed that back to normal (instantaneous unlock.) For reference I'm using a Pixel 3 XL.


I also have a Pixel 3 (just not the XL). I've never had an issue with the car being slow to unlock. The only time I notice a problem is when I have the phone in a pocket away from the car. Since Bluetooth can't transmit through a body it blocks the signal. Usually I carry the phone in my right front pocket and it always seems to work.


----------



## Long Ranger

Klaus-rf said:


> With ALL previous firmware versions the car would stay in D and allow me to inch forwards - creep mode - (or switch to R and inch back-ards). All with door slightly open and me still in seat, with belt latched.


Ah, I see. Maybe so if you still have seatbelt latched and are in the seat. The owners manual says it takes two of the three conditions to automatically shift into Park, but also leaves it open for one alone to trigger it:

Model 3 automatically shifts into Park whenever you connect a charge cable or if two or more of the following conditions are met simultaneously while traveling slower than approximately 1.5 mph (2 km/h):
• The driver's seat belt is unbuckled.
• The occupancy sensor in the driver's seat does not detect an occupant.
• The driver's door is opened.

Note: The above conditions do not reflect a comprehensive list of reasons why Model 3 may or may not automatically shift into Park and, in certain scenarios, it is possible for your vehicle to shift into Park when only one of the above conditions is true.


----------



## Eli

Rick59 said:


> Ok, this sucks. It looks like every post on this topic is from Model 3 owners. Just installed 36.2.1 on my X and NO FULL REGEN. What gives? Why not? Any other X owners get shortchanged on this one?


It only works if you have the newer "Raven" drivetrain that the 3 has, think June 2019 or later.


----------



## Long Ranger

Laughing Squid said:


> Odd bug happening with new software...it keeps taking away "hold" and reverts to "roll".


What I noticed is that upon installing this version, my setting automatically changed from Roll to Hold, but it didn't actually save it to my profile. With my setting at Hold, I changed to my wife's profile, verified that her setting is still Creep, but when I switched back to my profile it reverted to my previously saved setting of Roll. After manually changing my setting to Hold, then it saved the Hold setting to my profile.


----------



## TheeCatzMeow

I have the Model 3 Dual Motor, I've been on 2019.36.1/2019.36.2.1 for 2 weeks and have seen my range continue to decrease. I charge about every other night to 90% and previous would end up with 278/279 projected miles. Every time I've charged since having these updates it seems like I'm charging less. I'm now for the 3rd charge in a row at 270 with a 90% charge. Anyone else noticing? 

I did turn on Scheduled Departure with preconditioning, however I noticed when I upgraded to 2019.36.2.1 about a week ago it turned off Scheduled Departure. Thought that might be it at first. Additionally, I confirmed it isn't a phantom drain/ Sentry Mode/ Standby Mode drain cause I watched the car complete its charging cycle and stop at 90% at 270 projected miles this last time.


----------



## Bokonon

Just installed this version and took it for a spin, and WOW, IMHO they totally nailed one-pedal driving on the first iteration! Best implementation of any EV I've driven. 

On reversing on a slope with Hold: my driveway slopes downward, and I find backing out (uphill) to be much, much easier than before, since the car doesn't start rolling forward if you don't depress the pedal enough or let up to check for pedestrians, etc. Pulling back in (downhill) requires marginally more attention than before, and feels slightly less intuitive initially, but I imagine I'll be used to it by the end of the week.


----------



## GDN

Another real improvement from these last two releases (36.1 and this one) is lane changes. This gets a lot of complaints from other releases, so surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet. I put about 300 miles on this weekend and 100 or more of them were on EAP. My lane changes were spot on. I hit the blinker and never more than 3 blinks before the car made a perfect lane change. A couple of times it started the change on the first blink. I used it probably 18 to 20 times. For the first time ever I noticed it execute the change like the manual described at one time. It will actually accelerate slightly just as it starts the change to get up to speed quicker in the lane you are moving to.

A slight negative, both the RWD and AWD failed to unfold the drivers side mirror on unlock a couple of times today.

Back on the plus side I'll add that while I've never had bluetooth, phone issues and unlocking the car, I have noticed that I can now even leave the phone in my back pocket and the car will still unlock, that rarely worked in the past. I usually needed to have the phone in a front pocket or holding it.


----------



## M3OC Rules

garsh said:


> Not by adding brakes!
> By adding _*resistors*_!
> No need to figure out brake blending (NOBODY does that well), and you get the exact same pedal feel as regeneration, *AND* you don't wear out your brake pads!


Great point. Forgot about that idea. But that would require a hardware change right? I would definitely pay for that option if they made it optional.

[edit] Removed accidental response to other topic.


----------



## davidviolin

I love the new hold feature. Feels like my BMW i3 when it comes to slowing down. I really missed one pedal driving, now I got it!


----------



## PaulK

garsh said:


> I don't understand why people would want hold mode to work differently in reverse than forward. I understand that it's different than roll mode, but I think it will just take some practice to get used to it.


I do believe you're right that most people will get used to it. But I do believe it is less intuitive in reverse and for reasons already stated, it is would likely be better to not regen in reverse. Deceleration is too slow for an important stop (animal or kid) but too aggressive to allow one to "cover the brake".

In forward motion, regen is more natural to those who drive manual transmissions. None of us have experience with low speed "engine braking" so it makes sense that regen in reverse may feel odd and unnatural.


----------



## OKCU

CA SR+, Received update today. One pedal driving, wife says driving feels a bit more “tight,” especially in reverse. Reverse seems a lot slower and more sensitive to breaks.
I really love the stop feature one pedal driving. Just need to find sweet spot to slow down to come to perfect stop. 
5% power increase is awesome, especially in lower speeds.
Don’t care too much about auto navigate and scheduled charging.


----------



## PaulK

I really like regen to hold. Fantastic implementation of one pedal driving.

I have one strange sensation that I’m trying to figure out. When driving at very slow speeds (1-4 MPH) and starting to accelerate, it feels like the initial acceleration is a bit more sluggish than before. Maybe like the pedal travel mapping is slightly different.

The feeling - at really low speed - is like the first 1/4 inch of pedal travel is like “creep” mode. Of course the next 1/2” and I’m launched like a roller coaster.

It might be that because modulating the pedal immediately slows the car at these low speeds, give me the feeling of being “held back”. 

Just a feeling, I’m sure, but I wonder if anyone else gets the similar feeling.


----------



## PaulK

OKCU said:


> CA SR+, Received update today. One pedal driving, wife says driving feels a bit more "tight," especially in reverse. Reverse seems a lot slower and more sensitive to breaks.


"tight" is a good description of the feeling I just posted above. Which I think is good but also gives me a rare, odd feeling of not being so brisk back to speed from a slow roll.


----------



## OKCU

I think after driving an ICE car for 20+ years, it’s just getting used to new ways of driving.


----------



## PaulK

OKCU said:


> I think after driving an ICE car for 20+ years, it's just getting used to new ways of driving.


Agreed. I also wonder if this mode of operation becomes more common, and new drivers learn to drive in "one pedal driving" cars where using the brake pedal is more rare, might they lack the instinct of moving their right foot over to the brake for a panic stop.


----------



## iChris93

GDN said:


> Another real improvement from these last two releases (36.1 and this one) is lane changes. This gets a lot of complaints from other releases, so surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet. I put about 300 miles on this weekend and 100 or more of them were on EAP. My lane changes were spot on. I hit the blinker and never more than 3 blinks before the car made a perfect lane change. A couple of times it started the change on the first blink. I used it probably 18 to 20 times. For the first time ever I noticed it execute the change like the manual described at one time. It will actually accelerate slightly just as it starts the change to get up to speed quicker in the lane you are moving to.


This is my experience when initiating a lane change manually. It's still slow when NoA initiates it. 


GDN said:


> A slight negative, both the RWD and AWD failed to unfold the drivers side mirror on unlock a couple of times today.


So it's not just me! But I noticed it in the last build I had before 36.x.


----------



## slasher016

3V Pilot said:


> I also have a Pixel 3 (just not the XL). I've never had an issue with the car being slow to unlock. The only time I notice a problem is when I have the phone in a pocket away from the car. Since Bluetooth can't transmit through a body it blocks the signal. Usually I carry the phone in my right front pocket and it always seems to work.


I carry in front pocket and literally only had this problem with the previous update. It is completely gone now.


----------



## Jarettp

Jason Krellner said:


> It's complicated to set up, but yes - mine are a combo of conditions and user input. It can't be truly automated, because at some point it needs to know when I plan to go to work.


Create a calendar and tie it to that.


TheeCatzMeow said:


> I have the Model 3 Dual Motor, I've been on 2019.36.1/2019.36.2.1 for 2 weeks and have seen my range continue to decrease. I charge about every other night to 90% and previous would end up with 278/279 projected miles. Every time I've charged since having these updates it seems like I'm charging less. I'm now for the 3rd charge in a row at 270 with a 90% charge. Anyone else noticing?
> 
> I did turn on Scheduled Departure with preconditioning, however I noticed when I upgraded to 2019.36.2.1 about a week ago it turned off Scheduled Departure. Thought that might be it at first. Additionally, I confirmed it isn't a phantom drain/ Sentry Mode/ Standby Mode drain cause I watched the car complete its charging cycle and stop at 90% at 270 projected miles this last time.


Same situation but even worse. I'm getting 286 at 100%. I took my car into the service center and they told me I need to run my battery below 30% and up to 100% a few times per month. Currently testing this out. I've gained 1 mile so far...


----------



## Mesprit87

PaulK said:


> Deceleration is too slow for an important stop (animal or kid) but too aggressive to allow one to "cover the brake


Isn't that what brakes are for?
Or am I misunderstanding what you meant.


----------



## Jason Krellner

Mesprit87 said:


> Isn't that what brakes are for?
> Or am I misunderstanding what you meant.


The point is you can't hover your foot over the brakes because regen will stop the car. Yet regen in reverse is too slow to stop suddenly (for a pet or kid). So you've got to be on your A game as far as reaction speed to quickly hit the brakes if needed.


----------



## Mesprit87

Jason Krellner said:


> The point is you can't hover your foot over the brakes because regen will stop the car. Yet regen in reverse is too slow to stop suddenly (for a pet or kid). So you've got to be on your A game as far as reaction speed to quickly hit the brakes if needed.


Ok, got it, the foot is already busy 
So we might need to learn two foot driving for those situations, which is even more confusing .


----------



## garsh

PaulK said:


> But I do believe it is less intuitive in reverse


The only intuitive interface is the ******.
Everything else is learned.


----------



## NJturtlePower

So installed last night and took my first drive on 36.2.1 this morning....

Hold Mode was not enabled by default for me as some reported. 

Anyways, I really like Hold Mode, but think it shouldn't apply in reverse. I mean why should it? Negligible regen benefit and makes back in parking awkward...and i back in EVERYWHERE!


----------



## Major Victory

Not sure if it has been noted already here but I noticed that the regen is a bit more aggressive above 5mph too.


----------



## NJturtlePower

garsh said:


> The only intuitive interface is the ******.
> Everything else is learned.


Wise words.... Never forget!


----------



## Needsdecaf

OKCU said:


> CA SR+, Received update today. One pedal driving, wife says driving feels a bit more "tight," especially in reverse. Reverse seems a lot slower and more sensitive to breaks.
> I really love the stop feature one pedal driving. Just need to find sweet spot to slow down to come to perfect stop.
> 5% power increase is awesome, especially in lower speeds.
> Don't care too much about auto navigate and scheduled charging.


Yeah, I feel that "tight" feeling. I think either there is more regen, or the pedal has been remapped.



PaulK said:


> I really like regen to hold. Fantastic implementation of one pedal driving.
> 
> I have one strange sensation that I'm trying to figure out. When driving at very slow speeds (1-4 MPH) and starting to accelerate, it feels like the initial acceleration is a bit more sluggish than before. Maybe like the pedal travel mapping is slightly different.
> 
> The feeling - at really low speed - is like the first 1/4 inch of pedal travel is like "creep" mode. Of course the next 1/2" and I'm launched like a roller coaster.
> 
> It might be that because modulating the pedal immediately slows the car at these low speeds, give me the feeling of being "held back".
> 
> Just a feeling, I'm sure, but I wonder if anyone else gets the similar feeling.


Yeah, I'm not enjoying it.



PaulK said:


> "tight" is a good description of the feeling I just posted above. Which I think is good but also gives me a rare, odd feeling of not being so brisk back to speed from a slow roll.





OKCU said:


> I think after driving an ICE car for 20+ years, it's just getting used to new ways of driving.


No, that's not it at all. I've put over 25k miles on this car in under 11 months and driven it nearly every day. There is something new there, a reluctance to accelerate. I'm betting it's to do with "hold" mode but I've not tried switching it back to "roll" to compare yet.

I'm honestly not all that enamored with hold mode yet. I find that the car isn't slowing as much as I'd like it to, and it feels like I'm just kind of rolling to a stop. IMO, needs more blended friction brake. Will give it a few days to see if I adapt but I'm kind of nonplussed about it for now.


----------



## Needsdecaf

Major Victory said:


> Not sure if it has been noted already here but I noticed that the regen is a bit more aggressive above 5mph too.


I feel the same.


----------



## EchoCharlie3189

Ken Voss said:


> Just came back from a short ride using Hold mode for the first time and here is my initial reaction in no particular order:
> 
> *Hold mode is definitely the most economical setting as you hardly use any brake and regeneration is optimized*
> I like not having to touch the brake peddle
> Its easy to see how this is an important step toward FSD and Auto Pilot for city streets where the car will have to come to a stop at red lights and stop signs.


I think there is some confusion over Hold mode. It might increase regen a small amount at the lower speeds but the stopping this mode is enabling is brake blending. One peddle driving doesn't save the brakes anymore than two-pedal driving, it just prevents you from having to use the brake pedal to stop. The car does it for you and it probably uses brakes more than it did before for my style of driving. I tended to start slowing down for a stop farther from the light/sign so regen could do its thing and would aim to be slow enough for only a light brake tap right at the end to finish stopping. Now it starts braking before I would.

The car feels 'tighter' though as some people have described it!

@MountainPass , any plans to re-dyno the SR+ with the added power?? I assume your last run would already have captured the first 5% bump they sent out in April?


----------



## Long Ranger

EchoCharlie3189 said:


> I think there is some confusion over Hold mode. It might increase regen a small amount at the lower speeds but the stopping this mode is enabling is brake blending.


I could be wrong, but I don't think Hold mode is doing any brake blending. I think it's just applying regen below 5mph and then, once stopped, putting on the friction brake to hold. That's my unscientific conclusion based upon lightly touching the side of the brake pedal with my left foot. I don't feel the brake pedal move at all until the car stops.


----------



## sduck

Jason Krellner said:


> So you've got to be on your A game as far as reaction speed to quickly hit the brakes if needed.


The good news is that you're already on your A game if you're in the driving seat and taking the appropriate responsibility for being there.


----------



## EchoCharlie3189

Long Ranger said:


> I could be wrong, but I don't think Hold mode is doing any brake blending. I think it's just applying regen below 5mph and then, once stopped, putting on the friction brake to hold. That's my unscientific conclusion based upon lightly touching the side of the brake pedal with my left foot. I don't feel the brake pedal move at all until the car stops.


The tightness in the car really feels like friction braking (which would be smoother than regen) and since the motor loses torque resistance from regen at lower speed, I would be surprised if it wasn't the brakes doing the slowing below 5mph. That and the term "brake blending" rather than hill-holding that we already had tells me it is slowly adding friction braking as the regen loses it's torque ability. That braking blends until it is all brakes when it then goes into hold at a stop.


----------



## BigBri

TheeCatzMeow said:


> I have the Model 3 Dual Motor, I've been on 2019.36.1/2019.36.2.1 for 2 weeks and have seen my range continue to decrease. I charge about every other night to 90% and previous would end up with 278/279 projected miles. Every time I've charged since having these updates it seems like I'm charging less. I'm now for the 3rd charge in a row at 270 with a 90% charge. Anyone else noticing?
> 
> I did turn on Scheduled Departure with preconditioning, however I noticed when I upgraded to 2019.36.2.1 about a week ago it turned off Scheduled Departure. Thought that might be it at first. Additionally, I confirmed it isn't a phantom drain/ Sentry Mode/ Standby Mode drain cause I watched the car complete its charging cycle and stop at 90% at 270 projected miles this last time.


I lost about 12km on the previous update and I'm seeing a further decline after 36.2. I was getting 517km or so and am down to 504. Not super concerning but still tracking it.


----------



## LUXMAN

I can confirm that hold mode is profile specific. Got in my car today and it grabbed my wife’s phone for the driving profile. the car didn’t going to hold mode when I stopped and then continued on creep. While I was moving I changed it to my profile and it came up with a warning that said stopping mode will not be changed unless the car is in park e


----------



## Frully

Late to the party, just got it yesterday

Anyone else notice that on .36. that smart summon is a LOT faster in its motions? I did a summon in my work parking lot just now and it was easily double the previous velocity. Backed into a lone stall, had to navigate around a 90 right then 180 left to get to me. It stopped at each 'intersection' to make sure the lane was clear...proceeded at speed high enough for the car to skid when each maneuver completed. It's not THAT slick out.

One-Pedal mode is pretty neat. After getting used to not coasting (such as changing to/from reverse/drive while still driving 3km/hr at the end of a maneuver, it now wants my foot on the brake to change gears...which I previously used because I was actively braking...but now I am software braking using the accelerator so I can't change gears. first world problems.


----------



## airj1012

Dogs are now detected, although they're visualized as humans. I wonder if this is HW3 only too.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-autopilot-dog-detection-video/


----------



## KFORE

If hold mode was brake blending, why would't pre-raven Model S/X receive it?


----------



## Needsdecaf

KFORE said:


> If hold mode was brake blending, why would't pre-raven Model S/X receive it?


 I think it is both increased regen and brakes. THINK.


----------



## Eli

It says it blends brakes on the screen, in the text below the "HOLD" setting.


----------



## Drago

Mike said:


> 17 months ago I went to the Lawrence Avenue SC and introduced myself with whoever was working the servicing desk that day.
> 
> Since that time, I have been able to send an email to Tesla Lawrence and have gotten satisfaction, usually within 24 hours.
> 
> One caveat: I'm living with a number of very minor items that I inform Tesla Lawrence as they pop up so there is a record.
> 
> I have also informed them of various DIY fixes I have employed so that they can pass on lessons learned to Tesla corporate.
> 
> When I decide to go in for something like the V3.0 hardware upgrade, I'll piggy back the other nit noid stuff at that time.
> 
> The genaric email address is [email protected] and if you use some key words in the subject line including your VIN, someone should read your executive summary of your issue and reach out to you.
> 
> As always, YMMV


Thanks


----------



## DocScott

PaulK said:


> Agreed. I also wonder if this mode of operation becomes more common, and new drivers learn to drive in "one pedal driving" cars where using the brake pedal is more rare, might they lack the instinct of moving their right foot over to the brake for a panic stop.


Much as almost all of us have lost the instinct of using an emergency brake if regular brakes fail! That used to be a thing, back in the day, right?


----------



## SimonMatthews

DocScott said:


> Much as almost all of us have lost the instinct of using an emergency brake if regular brakes fail! That used to be a thing, back in the day, right?


Modern cars don't have emergency brakes. They have parking brakes.


----------



## AutopilotFan

NR4P said:


> When I started to leave the garage this morning, the car showed me the route it thought best. 3 miles longer than normal and as I detoured to my preferred route, it added 1 minute.
> 
> Similar situation on way home. Took longer route by 3 miles and that saved about a minute.


Look around a bit more in the Navigation settings. I remember a setting where you could set a minimum time savings for the system to reroute. Maybe that will change things to your liking?


----------



## AutopilotFan

Mike said:


> My car is responding to my inputs on the app and my phone does not have a data plan, so I know the car is receiving useful wifi information.


When you're in the car, I thought the phone talked to the car via Bluetooth. So when you're that close, you may not be using wifi on the phone. I hope resetting the router fixes your issue!


----------



## Long Ranger

Eli said:


> It says it blends brakes on the screen, in the text below the "HOLD" setting.


But that's the only place I've seen blending mentioned, and "blends in brakes to hold the vehicle at a stop" sounds to me like the blending is only at the moment it transitions to stop.

Evidence against blending:
1. The release notes don't mention blending and state "When Hold mode is selected, your vehicle continues to use regenerative braking after decelerating to a low speed, and applies Vehicle Hold after coming to a complete stop. The Hold setting maximizes range and reduces brake wear by continuing to provide regenerative braking at speeds lower than approximately 5 mph (8 km/h).

2. Adding brake blending at speeds above 5mph would actually reduce range and increase brake wear vs. Roll.

3. The manual doesn't mention blending and states "Hold: Maximizes range and reduces brake wear by continuing to provide regenerative braking at speeds lower than the Creep and Roll settings."

4. The S and X models without PM motors don't get Hold mode. If it was friction brake based, they could easily have it.

5. The brake pedal doesn't move until the car stops.

I expect the folks monitoring CAN data can answer this question definitively.


----------



## JWardell

Long Ranger said:


> But that's the only place I've seen blending mentioned, and "blends in brakes to hold the vehicle at a stop" sounds to me like the blending is only at the moment it transitions to stop.
> 
> Evidence against blending:
> 1. The release notes don't mention blending and state "When Hold mode is selected, your vehicle continues to use regenerative braking after decelerating to a low speed, and applies Vehicle Hold after coming to a complete stop. The Hold setting maximizes range and reduces brake wear by continuing to provide regenerative braking at speeds lower than approximately 5 mph (8 km/h).
> 
> 2. Adding brake blending at speeds above 5mph would actually reduce range and increase brake wear vs. Roll.
> 
> 3. The manual doesn't mention blending and states "Hold: Maximizes range and reduces brake wear by continuing to provide regenerative braking at speeds lower than the Creep and Roll settings."
> 
> 4. The S and X models without PM motors don't get Hold mode. If it was friction brake based, they could easily have it.
> 
> 5. The brake pedal doesn't move until the car stops.
> 
> I expect the folks monitoring CAN data can answer this question definitively.


Agreed. I tried to figure this out when testing. The biggest sign is the brake pedal moving itself: it does not move until after you come to a full stop, and a second later Hold is indicated on screen and your brake pedal moves inward (feel with your foot on the side of it).
Unfortunately we can't easily prove this with CAN data because the iBooster is only on the the two busses we can't easily plug into. But what I do see is motor torque and power down to zero, including some power to hold it still.


----------



## garsh

Long Ranger said:


> 4. The S and X models without PM motors don't get Hold mode. If it was friction brake based, they could easily have it.


Bingo.

Induction motors *can't* regen to low speeds. If the magnetic field in the stator isn't spinning fast enough, there will be no current induced in the rotors, and therefore no magnetic field induced in the rotor for the stator magnetic field to work against.

But the Model 3 rear motors (and the Raven front motors) are permanent magnet motors. They have magnets embedded in the rotor, so that the rotor _always_ has a magnetic field. Therefore, there is no need for the stator magnetic field to even be spinning.

The rotor can even be attracted to a particular fixed position by creating a static field in the stator (although, doing so at zero rpm will be less efficient than applying the brake, which is why it enters hold mode shortly after stopping). This is how a PM stepper motor works.


----------



## Mesprit87

Ok, first drive out of my snowy/slipery/sloped driveway and ho boy, what a racket from the front. I've pulled out of the same driveway all of last winter with traction control doing its thing but now...i need to try it again in roll just to compare but I was expecting some gear to come out of the frunk. It really sounds like the backlash you can feel when you turn a front wheel with the car jacked, something is seriously jerking in there in that mode.
Like what it did for normal driving so some park and select it will be for me for winter.


----------



## garsh

Mesprit87 said:


> Ok, first drive out of my snowy/slipery/sloped driveway and ho boy, what a racket from the front.


Could it be that the regen at low speeds is too strong for conditions, and it's fighting with the traction control system kicking in?


----------



## Madmolecule

I love the new software with the increased electronic braking. When it uses the electronic braking to come to a complete stop and then hold, is it pure electronic or are the mechanical brakes actually applied? Is it possible mechanical brakes might be eliminated in the future? Drum brakes were poorly engineered and it took forever to change over to disc brakes. I would love to see them eliminated I am not sure what the true capability of electronic braking is.


----------



## Frully

Madmolecule said:


> I love the new software with the increased electronic braking. When it uses the electronic braking to come to a complete stop and then hold, is it pure electronic or are the mechanical brakes actually applied? Is it possible mechanical brakes might be eliminated in the future? Drum brakes were poorly engineered and it took forever to change over to disc brakes. I would love to see them eliminated I am not sure what the true capability of electronic braking is.


The mechanical brakes are absolutely applied. You can feel it in the pedal moving after stop...as @garsh says above, it would actively take power to motor hold exclusively as a brake.


----------



## garsh

Madmolecule said:


> I love the new software with the increased electronic braking. When it uses the electronic braking to come to a complete stop and then hold, is it pure electronic or are the mechanical brakes actually applied?


So far, it appears that it is using just the motor to slow down to a complete stop. But when it actually switches to Hold Mode, that's when the friction brakes are applied.


> Is it possible mechanical brakes might be eliminated in the future?


I don't think that will happen. It's mainly a safety issue. If something bad happens to a motor or an inverter (and some people _have_ had motor failures), then you want a mechanical system as a backup.

Also, regeneration can't produce all that much force. If you needed more deceleration force, you _could_ theoretically run the motor "backwards" to slow down more quickly. You can demonstrate this in your own car in "roll mode" - go forward at something under 5mph, switch it to reverse, then press the accelerator. But that _uses_ energy rather than returning energy to the battery, so it's less efficient than using the friction brakes.


----------



## mkg3

Has anyone experienced Sentry mode camera issue since this update? 

Since the update, only the rear camera is working. The other three files are blank files.


----------



## MelindaV

mkg3 said:


> Has anyone experienced Sentry mode camera issue since this update?
> 
> Since the update, only the rear camera is working. The other three files are blank files.


I was just looking at both sentry and saved footage from yesterday, and there was much more partial or fully garbled footage than we've seen recently... more like what was normal 6 months or so ago.









EDIT: the first video seems to be corrupted enough for Youtube not to be able to finish its processing on it.. oddly, the second video looks way better after the youtube processing than when just looking at the original in Quicktime.


----------



## WonkoTheSane

WonkoTheSane said:


> Before the update my range is down to 290 LR AWD. (145 @ 50%). I will watch for range differences in this version.


Replying to myself here, at 75% I'm still seeing a total range of 290 after the update.


----------



## njkode

Ken Voss said:


> Just came back from a short ride using Hold mode for the first time and here is my initial reaction in no particular order:
> 
> Hold mode is definitely the most economical setting as you hardly use any brake and regeneration is optimized
> I like not having to touch the brake peddle
> It definitely will take some time to become comfortable with it, I am not there yet but willing to keep using it, i suspect it wont take that long to get comfortable
> Biggest issue for me so far is parking in my garage. I use a laser for precision parking guidance and getting the car to stop at precisely the exact laser point location is much more difficult in Hold mode.
> Its easy to see how this is an important step toward FSD and Auto Pilot for city streets where the car will have to come to a stop at red lights and stop signs.


Just got this version last night, my wife gave up on hold mold in 30 seconds. I've yet to try it out yet but I typically will hang in there to get used to things.


----------



## garsh

njkode said:


> Just got this version last night, my wife gave up on hold mold in 30 seconds. I've yet to try it out yet but I typically will hang in there to get used to things.


It took me several weeks to get used to Tesla's "roll" mode originally - the Nissan Leaf that I used to drive acts more like "hold" mode, just without actually having a "hold" at the end.

So I think it's going to take me a couple weeks to get used to this new (yet, somewhat old) behavior again.


----------



## tencate

Needsdecaf said:


> They've been working on this since around 2013 for the 918 Spyder, so they have some good data. And supposedly the 918 has very natural feeling brakes.


...and that got me to thinking. Tesla is presumably basing this new one pedal driving based on a gazillion of us giving them data how we do it. Porsche has a few good engineers who decide how to make it work best. Both approaches have merit. I rather like the reversing behavior myself.

[Edit: wonder why the reply didn't go out when I sent it. No matter, I still like the one pedal driving, reverse too.]


----------



## GDN

njkode said:


> Just got this version last night, my wife gave up on hold mold in 30 seconds. I've yet to try it out yet but I typically will hang in there to get used to things.


I hope she will try it again soon. I know driving is dangerous, and must be taken seriously, but the way I've embraced these new features that come with an EV and I thought might be a bit silly at first, is to make a challenging game of them. Not only embrace the new feature, but just see how good I can get as soon as I can. One time I feather the pedal and try to come to my stop right where I should. Next time I'm going to try and judge my exact stopping place and just let off the accelerator and see if I can get the car to stop right where I need it too. It's just like regen in general, you have to use it a little to appreciate it and use it. The brake is always right there and you don't want to forget how to use it, but I work on avoiding it.

This helps me adjust and learn the new feature. I was lucky to be one of the first to have this feature and must say, day 1 was fun and it became habit by day 3. I don't even pay attention any more.


----------



## garsh

Klaus-rf said:


> Drove with 36.2.1 today and one VERY ANNOYING thing I noticed is that I cannot move the car at all if the drivers door is open. It immediately goes into "P" when the door is opened.
> 
> Grrr...
> 
> EDIT:
> Figured it out. If I set driving mode back to Creep, the previous functionality is back - can inch forward/backward with door open. Does NOT auto-force Park.
> 
> However if the new Driving mode setting of Hold is engaged, it forces Park whenever the drivers door ( haven't tested other doors ! ) is opened. New behavior.


Thanks for the edit. That explains this new behavior.

This makes me sad. I don't like opening the windows after I've washed them, because they always end up with water streaks when I put them back up.

So when I go to enter the parking garage at work, I'll often just open my door to get a ticket rather than put down the window. This new behavior of going into park when I do this is annoying.

I know that if I have the car in HOLD mode, that opening a door puts the car into park, so that must be why this is happening. When I'm in "roll" mode and do this, I'm just holding my foot on the brake - I don't actually go into hold mode. So I grab the ticket, close the door, and start driving away again.


----------



## Needsdecaf

Maybe it's just because it's been 10-11 months since I had temperature limited regen, but does anyone else feel like regen is limited for FAR longer than it used to be? My commute home is just under 50 miles, and much of that is highway driving at 70-80 MPH. Last night it was around 50 and took me well past halfway home until I got rid of the regen dots. 

Is it just me?


----------



## garsh

Needsdecaf said:


> Maybe it's just because it's been 10-11 months since I had temperature limited regen, but does anyone else feel like regen is limited for FAR longer than it used to be? My commute home is just under 50 miles, and much of that is highway driving at 70-80 MPH. Last night it was around 50 and took me well past halfway home until I got rid of the regen dots.
> 
> Is it just me?


Well, the car _did_ become more efficient (due to software updates) since last winter. And if that's the case, there's not as much waste heat to warm up the battery.


----------



## RoccoX

WonkoTheSane said:


> Before the update my range is down to 290 LR AWD. (145 @ 50%). I will watch for range differences in this version.


Same boat here, started I think two updates ago for me.


----------



## Needsdecaf

garsh said:


> Well, the car _did_ become more efficient (due to software updates) since last winter. And if that's the case, there's not as much waste heat to warm up the battery.


Could be. Hard to isolate the effects of a feature which involves more regen just at the same time as the temperature drops and limits regen.


----------



## Mike

Just completed my standard 257 km trip to the in laws in eastern Ottawa.

85% of this trip is via a two lane provincial highway (HWY 7) and the last 15% is limited access freeway (HWY 417).

First winter trip with my (large) mud flaps and the %SOC locking out (about?) 4 kWh at the bottom end; last winter the usage for this trip was 67%, this trip was 72%.

Majority of trip driven with TACC.

Temps were -2c to -4c in light winds, light to moderate snow showers the whole way.

Roads went from bare and wet to light slush to moderate slush (for the last 70 km).

After initially setting TACC, I had two phantom braking episodes about five minutes apart (no other phantom braking events).

By coincidence, the only thing that was a constant on both those events was the singel solid center line changing to dual lines.

Using the new one pedal driving, I can confirm when the car is brought to a full and complete stop (not slow rolling stop) via this OS (and not my foot on the brake pedal), there is a definite single click sound emitted from the area of the brake master cylinder. 

My hypothesis: the TM3 equivalent of a hydraulic brake distribution and proportioning valve assembly contains an electric powered "widget" that pressurizes the brake system on our behalf when coming to a full stop. Said widget (when no music is playing and the HVAC fan is on low) makes itself heard everytime a full stop, induced by the OS, occurred on this trip.

Auto-wipers: still 100% useless when dealing with overcast skies and salt spray.

TACC/autopilot: still 100% useless (red screen warnings to take manual control, loud alarm) once a thin coat of ice covers the area of the front bumper where the radar is located. 

I did note that the lanes/lines were still perfectly and correctly rendered on the UI.......the only things missing were any rendered vehicles.

My interpretation: the radar still holds an outsized level of importance while visualizations are still minimized when both are mixed together to run TACC/autopilot. 

36.2.1 TACC (before the ice on the bumper eliminated it) was so smooth reacting to slowing traffic ahead of me, I was no longer inclined to preemptively slowly lower my set speed for reasons of passenger comfort.


----------



## GDN

Mike said:


> Just completed my standard 257 km trip to the in laws in eastern Ottawa.
> 
> 85% of this trip is via a two lane provincial highway (HWY 7) and the last 15% is limited access freeway (HWY 417).
> 
> First winter trip with my (large) mud flaps and the %SOC locking out (about?) 4 kWh at the bottom end; last winter the usage for this trip was 67%, this trip was 72%.
> 
> Majority of trip driven with TACC.
> 
> Temps were -2c to -4c in light winds, light to moderate snow showers the whole way.
> 
> Roads went from bare and wet to light slush to moderate slush (for the last 70 km).
> 
> After initially setting TACC, I had two phantom braking episodes about five minutes apart (no other phantom braking events).
> 
> By coincidence, the only thing that was a constant on both those events was the singel solid center line changing to dual lines.
> 
> Using the new one pedal driving, I can confirm when the car is brought to a full and complete stop (not slow rolling stop) via this OS (and not my foot on the brake pedal), there is a definite single click sound emitted from the area of the brake master cylinder.
> 
> My hypothesis: the TM3 equivalent of a hydraulic brake distribution and proportioning valve assembly contains an electric powered "widget" that pressurizes the brake system on our behalf when coming to a full stop. Said widget (when no music is playing and the HVAC fan is on low) makes itself heard everytime a full stop, induced by the OS, occurred on this trip.
> 
> Auto-wipers: still 100% useless when dealing with overcast skies and salt spray.
> 
> TACC/autopilot: still 100% useless (red screen warnings to take manual control, loud alarm) once a thin coat of ice covers the area of the front bumper where the radar is located.
> 
> I did note that the lanes/lines were still perfectly and correctly rendered on the UI.......the only things missing were any rendered vehicles.
> 
> My interpretation: the radar still holds an outsized level of importance while visualizations are still minimized when both are mixed together to run TACC/autopilot.
> 
> 36.2.1 TACC (before the ice on the bumper eliminated it) was so smooth reacting to slowing traffic ahead of me, I was no longer inclined to preemptively slowly lower my set speed for reasons of passenger comfort.


There is a whole lot of fancy braking happening on our behalf. Look up the Bosch iBooster. That is what is in the 3.


----------



## Mike

GDN said:


> There is a whole lot of fancy braking happening on our behalf. Look up the Bosch iBooster. That is what is in the 3.


Thanks for the tip, this will make a great read on a bad weather day


----------



## jsmay311

Sorry to get off-topic, but...



garsh said:


> If you needed more deceleration force, you _could_ theoretically run the motor "backwards" to slow down more quickly. You can demonstrate this in your own car in "roll mode" - go forward at something under 5mph, switch it to reverse, then press the accelerator. *But that uses energy rather than returning energy to the battery, so it's less efficient than using the friction brakes*.


I'm no expert on electric motors or magnetic fields, but I'm not sure about this.

For one thing, this goes against what I personally observed while driving my Volt. The Volt's power meter shows how much power is being consumed or regen'd in real time, and if a Volt is moving in reverse and then shifts into Drive and the driver hits the accelerator while still rolling backwards, you definitely see regen, not consumption, while the car decelerates. And the faster you're going when you shift, the higher the regen. (This is possibly key since Tesla's annoying-low speed limit of 5mph for shifting gears and low-res power meter makes it harder to decipher precisely what's happening with power flows in the brief moments after shifting gears.)

I would also ask what's fundamentally different between the behavior of a Tesla when it decelerates from moving forward at 5mph to 0mph via the following approaches:

(A) simply removing your foot from the pedals and allowing the new "hold" stopping mode to decelerate it to a stop
(B) shifting into Reverse and allowing "creep" to decelerate the car to a stop
(C) shifting into Reverse and then gently pressing the accelerator in order to decelerate slightly quicker than scenarios A and B
A & B are fundamentally the same, aren't they? And so wouldn't both be regen-ing equally?

And, then, wouldn't the only difference between B and C be that the motor controller is using slightly-wider PWM pulses to impart a slightly higher deceleration torque in the motor? And therefore wouldn't the kinetic energy that is being removed from the car in scenario C still go into the battery just like in A and B?

(Hope I'm not totally bungling the physics here.  )

Edit: Oh! I just thought of a much better example.

If my Model 3 has been cold soaked and has virtually zero regrn available, if I shift from R to D while rolling backwards and then hit the accelerator, it has almost no effect. The car continues rolling backward and decelerates almost imperceptibly faster than if I was not pressing the accelerator. This seems like pretty strong evidence that pressing the accelerator while rolling backwards in D does in fact regen the kinetic energy back into the battery.


----------



## garsh

jsmay311 said:


> Sorry to get off-topic, but...


I can move this into it's own thread if others get annoyed at us being off-topic. 


> (A) simply removing your foot from the pedals and allowing the new "hold" stopping mode to decelerate it to a stop
> (B) shifting into Reverse and allowing "creep" to decelerate the car to a stop
> (C) shifting into Reverse and then gently pressing the accelerator in order to decelerate slightly quicker than scenarios A and B
> A & B are fundamentally the same, aren't they? And so wouldn't both be regen-ing equally?


Maybe we can convince @JWardell to run some tests with his canbus data-gathering voodoo to figure out if it's different or not. You could be right about the car using regen in the specific B or C situations. I don't know for sure that Tesla (or a Chevy Volt) uses the motor in generator mode in one instance and motor mode in the other.


> And, then, wouldn't the only difference between B and C be that the motor controller is using slightly-wider PWM pulses to impart a slightly higher deceleration torque in the motor?


The difference is the prime mover.

When you're in regen mode, the prime mover is the car's wheels. It spins the moto'rs rotor. This will induce an AC current in the motor's stator, which can then be rectified to charge the battery. If the prime mover is slow, then it's not introducing much power into the system, so there's not a lot of power available to slow the car quickly.

When you're in motor mode, the prime mover is the motor. The battery's energy is used to create a rotating field in the stator. That can be used either to make the rotor go faster or slower, depending on how it is controlled. But either way, energy is being expended by the battery, not added to it.


----------



## garsh

garsh said:


> Maybe we can convince @JWardell to run some tests with his canbus data-gathering voodoo to figure out if it's different or not.


That was pretty good timing. Not the exact situation @jsmay311 and I were discussing, but related.

JWardell discovered that if regen is unavailable due to a cold-soaked battery, and you're reversing down a hill, that Tesla actually runs the motor in motor mode to prevent the vehicle from coasting backward too much!


JWardell said:


> Backing down the incline in my driveway, battery is -2C, heat is off, regen max is reading 3kW. Here I press the pedal a bit to reverse, then once I lift instead of regen *everything flips and it actually adds forward torque and draws a bit of battery power to counteract the incline*. With sound and HVAC off I notice the inverter whine sounds nastier than usual, and you can see in the capture below why, no doubt algorithms fighting as it compensates with forward torque while slowing in reverse down an incline.


----------



## NR4P

Anyone else having a problem with Auto High Beams with this release? Toggle switch is on, and every day I have push the left stalk forward to get the gray icon to come on.

Rebooted yesterday, verified grayed out icon was there after reboot, and again tonight had to push the stalk forward in the dark to get the icon back.

Until this release, I almost never had to push the stalk forward.


----------



## JWardell

garsh said:


> I can move this into it's own thread if others get annoyed at us being off-topic.
> Maybe we can convince @JWardell to run some tests with his canbus data-gathering voodoo to figure out if it's different or not. You could be right about the car using regen in the specific B or C situations. I don't know for sure that Tesla (or a Chevy Volt) uses the motor in generator mode in one instance and motor mode in the other.
> The difference is the prime mover.
> 
> When you're in regen mode, the prime mover is the car's wheels. It spins the moto'rs rotor. This will induce an AC current in the motor's stator, which can then be rectified to charge the battery. If the prime mover is slow, then it's not introducing much power into the system, so there's not a lot of power available to slow the car quickly.
> 
> When you're in motor mode, the prime mover is the motor. The battery's energy is used to create a rotating field in the stator. That can be used either to make the rotor go faster or slower, depending on how it is controlled. But either way, energy is being expended by the battery, not added to it.





jsmay311 said:


> Sorry to get off-topic, but...
> 
> I'm no expert on electric motors or magnetic fields, but I'm not sure about this.
> 
> For one thing, this goes against what I personally observed while driving my Volt. The Volt's power meter shows how much power is being consumed or regen'd in real time, and if a Volt is moving in reverse and then shifts into Drive and the driver hits the accelerator while still rolling backwards, you definitely see regen, not consumption, while the car decelerates. And the faster you're going when you shift, the higher the regen. (This is possibly key since Tesla's annoying-low speed limit of 5mph for shifting gears and low-res power meter makes it harder to decipher precisely what's happening with power flows in the brief moments after shifting gears.)
> 
> I would also ask what's fundamentally different between the behavior of a Tesla when it decelerates from moving forward at 5mph to 0mph via the following approaches:
> 
> (A) simply removing your foot from the pedals and allowing the new "hold" stopping mode to decelerate it to a stop
> (B) shifting into Reverse and allowing "creep" to decelerate the car to a stop
> (C) shifting into Reverse and then gently pressing the accelerator in order to decelerate slightly quicker than scenarios A and B
> A & B are fundamentally the same, aren't they? And so wouldn't both be regen-ing equally?
> 
> And, then, wouldn't the only difference between B and C be that the motor controller is using slightly-wider PWM pulses to impart a slightly higher deceleration torque in the motor? And therefore wouldn't the kinetic energy that is being removed from the car in scenario C still go into the battery just like in A and B?
> 
> (Hope I'm not totally bungling the physics here.  )
> 
> Edit: Oh! I just thought of a much better example.
> 
> If my Model 3 has been cold soaked and has virtually zero regrn available, if I shift from R to D while rolling backwards and then hit the accelerator, it has almost no effect. The car continues rolling backward and decelerates almost imperceptibly faster than if I was not pressing the accelerator. This seems like pretty strong evidence that pressing the accelerator while rolling backwards in D does in fact regen the kinetic energy back into the battery.


There's a little confusion here. Regen IS running the motor in reverse. That is, torque in the opposite direction. So the voltage is in the opposite direction. So it adds power to the battery instead of removes it. What direction it is physically turning has nothing to do with it...this is just coils moving past magnets after all. 
Remember there is no reverse gear changes. The motor is connected to the axle with fixed gears, so it turns the same (with a 9x factor). 
Yes, "shifting" from forward to reverse just tells the computer that the accelerator pedal you press should be commanding torque in the opposite direction. Unfortunately another layer of software will ignore your command until it reaches 0mph (and will beep at you if you are over 5mph), but if that extra check wasn't there, yes the gas pedal would work just like a regen pedel and allow you to command how hard it slows down. 
Maybe Tesla will add that as an Easter egg control mode in the future 

And yes with a deep frozen battery this morning I confirmed there is no mixed braking whatsoever in the new Hold mode. They do it all with the motor. Hold activates the brakes with the iBooster a second after coming to a full stop, just how it always worked before.


----------



## mkg3

mkg3 said:


> Has anyone experienced Sentry mode camera issue since this update?
> 
> Since the update, only the rear camera is working. The other three files are blank files.


So.... I did a reboot (2 steering wheel buttons and a brake pedal), and it all seem to be working again. just FYI...


----------



## garsh

JWardell said:


> There's a little confusion here. Regen IS running the motor in reverse.


I think the main problem is that there are too many different meanings of "reverse" in this context (direction of vehicle travel vs. flow of power between motor and battery).


----------



## AutopilotFan

Today was my first day with the new software. I *love *Hold mode. It's been distressing me that in Roll the car would roll backwards if I came off the accelerator, especially if I was accelerating very slowly up an incline and I didn't get my foot to the brake fast enough. Sometimes I'd give it a little "gas" and roll it back and forth slightly waiting for traffic to clear.

Hold works exactly like I was expecting, and was especially perfect in stop-and-go traffic. This was even on an evening cold enough to take out a lot of my regen!

I'm less enthusiastic about Scheduled Start. I work from home one day a week so neither of the settings is quite right. I'm concerned about wasting energy if it warms up the car on days when I don't go out at the usual time.

Does anyone know at what point it decides you're not coming, and stops warming up the car for you?


----------



## TMK26

Has anyone here gone through an auto car wash (where you stay in the car, put it in neutral, and rollers push the car through) with HOLD turned on? Does Neutral work the same way as before the update (if in HOLD)?

I was about to, but chickened out last second due to the line of cars behind me. I ended up switching to ROLL before driving into the wash.


----------



## FRC

I can't imagine that neutral will act any differently than it always has. But if you're worried, try rolling down an incline in neutral to test.


----------



## Bokonon

AutopilotFan said:


> Does anyone know at what point it decides you're not coming, and stops warming up the car for you?


IIRC app-initiated preconditioning shuts off automatically after 4 hours (and you'll see a message to this effect). I'd imagine this same limit applies to scheduled departure preconditioning.


----------



## PaulK

Does scheduled departure preheat the cabin even if not plugged in & charging on a given morning?


----------



## Mesprit87

garsh said:


> Could it be that the regen at low speeds is too strong for conditions, and it's fighting with the traction control system kicking in?


Thanks for replying, no regen involved, backing up of my driveway. 
Tried the good old roll mode and ended up with the same result. Last year I could hear some clicking happening as one of the wheel would start slipping but it seems to be worse now...will see as temperature goes down and some snow traction returns. 
Quick question, in park, I'm unable to engage the slip mode ( which I never tried) , what's the recipe? Anything else needs to be disabled in order to engage it?


----------



## iChris93

Mesprit87 said:


> Quick question, in park, I'm unable to engage the slip mode ( which I never tried) , what's the recipe? Anything else needs to be disabled in order to engage it?


Try it while in gear.


----------



## Needsdecaf

TMK26 said:


> Has anyone here gone through an auto car wash (where you stay in the car, put it in neutral, and rollers push the car through) with HOLD turned on? Does Neutral work the same way as before the update (if in HOLD)?
> 
> I was about to, but chickened out last second due to the line of cars behind me. I ended up switching to ROLL before driving into the wash.


Neutral is neutral. I tried it out last night while in Hold. I actually wanted to see if HOLD made any difference in how the car reacted in Neutral. I have a stretch of road leading to my house that I can coast for several hundred yards in Neutral and still make it to my driveway, so I've done it a few times.

Bottom line, Neutral is uneffected.


----------



## RUN TM3

Pre-update, my LR RWD Model 3 charged 80% to 282 mile range. Last night, post-update, it charged to 287 mile range!


----------



## Tesla blue Y

I updated to 2019.36.2.1 3 days ago and I started problem with my charging cables (I have 2) locking into the charging port. The 1st night I didn't notice it but in the morning I had not charged. Yesterday I noticed it was not locking so I switched cable from Type 1 to the Type 2 which came with the car and it did not lock either. I then rebooted the car and the cable locked. IT was the same story this evening the cable locked in after a reboot. 

Anyone else experiencing this? Is this perhaps an indication for a developing hardware problem? (would think a reboot would not fix a hardware problem though).

Thanks in advance


----------



## DocScott

Mike said:


> My interpretation: the radar still holds an outsized level of importance while visualizations are still minimized when both are mixed together to run TACC/autopilot.


That's possible, but I don't think your observation about the ice alone demonstrates that. It could well be that TACC is just being conservative--if a sensor is not functioning well, it won't operate, whether that sensor is radar or a camera.

To test this, you'd have to cover the cameras and not the radar and see if TACC still functions. If so, we know it's relying mostly on radar. If not, we just know it doesn't like it if either sensor is out.


----------



## iChris93

Tesla blue 3 said:


> I updated to 2019.36.2.1 3 days ago and I started problem with my charging cables (I have 2) locking into the charging port. The 1st night I didn't notice it but in the morning I had not charged. Yesterday I noticed it was not locking so I switched cable from Type 1 to the Type 2 which came with the car and it did not lock either. I then rebooted the car and the cable locked. IT was the same story this evening the cable locked in after a reboot.
> 
> Anyone else experiencing this? Is this perhaps an indication for a developing hardware problem? (would think a reboot would not fix a hardware problem though).
> 
> Thanks in advance


Let me guess, your temperature has dropped too? Last year there was an issue that if the cable locked with freezing conditions the pin would freeze the cable in place. They released an update that now prevents it from locking if the temps are low.


----------



## Tesla blue Y

iChris93 said:


> Let me guess, your temperature has dropped too? Last year there was an issue that if the cable locked with freezing conditions the pin would freeze the cable in place. They released an update that now prevents it from locking if the temps are low.


why yes they have and I noticed this evening when I came home that the light indicating the cable was inserted was a light blue and the cable was not locked. I use the app to begin charging and the light turned dark blue (locked) and then started flashing green indicating it was charging. 
So you may in fact be correct.

Thanks


----------



## 3V Pilot

Just had this happen today for the first time. Driving at 75 mph down the freeway and the car showed it was in "Park". I was like......... what???? I took a pic but forgot to submit a bug report. Cleared itself up once I got off and put the car in park. Anyone else have this happen?


----------



## garsh

garsh said:


> If you needed more deceleration force, you _could_ theoretically run the motor "backwards" to slow down more quickly





JWardell said:


> There's a little confusion here. Regen IS running the motor in reverse.


If you were referring to my statement, I meant running in motor mode, but spinning the magnetic field in the other direction.


----------



## STUBBLEHEADEDMUTANT

3V Pilot said:


> Just had this happen today for the first time. Driving at 75 mph down the freeway and the car showed it was in "Park". I was like......... what???? I took a pic but forgot to submit a bug report. Cleared itself up once I got off and put the car in park. Anyone else have this happen?
> 
> View attachment 30587


Anyone see this before? Pulled into a parking space at Wal-Mart, car went into hold. On the screen were rendered
a greyed out autopilot steering wheel, a speed icon and nearby parked cars. I pulled on the drive stock and the Model 3 immediately began accelerating. It behaved just as it would on autopilot when a stopped car in front of you begins to move. In this case there were no cars parked in front of me. Never touched the accelerator or the brake.


----------



## njkode

Well first charge up after the update and my car charged to 93 not 90%. I’m guessing due to the 5% increase?


----------



## MelindaV

njkode said:


> Well first charge up after the update and my car charged to 93 not 90%. I'm guessing due to the 5% increase?


the 5% increasingly is a HP increase, not range or capacity


----------



## PiperPaul

Software updates are like a box of chocolates, Forrest......
After installing 2019.36.2.1:

Radio in media player would not play. Any choice of station only got the rolling loading indication. 
All other media player elements worked, although Spotify now wants a personal account login so couldn't check that capability
High beams came on automatically where previously I had to initiate high beam operation with the left stalk before Auto managed turning highs off and on
Driver's-side window switch resumed normal operation (had been unable to raise the window automatically)
After restarting the system (scroll wheels & brake pedal):

Radio worked playing my favourites and other local stations
Had a phantom radio favourite (an NJ station - never been there) which wouldn't play (no surprise), and when I tried to "unfavourite" it media player actually removed the adjacent station from my favourites (which tells me there's software glitch between the media player module and the display)
Happily, the key features of the car are fine: drives down the road respectably with grace and style. 
If I had a vote I would have the software developers and test groups (they have test groups, right?) working on the car's capability rather than video games. But I don't.


----------



## Mike

njkode said:


> Well first charge up after the update and my car charged to 93 not 90%. I'm guessing due to the 5% increase?


Mine has been consistently hitting 89% since the update, versus 91% pre update.


----------



## Mike

3V Pilot said:


> Just had this happen today for the first time. Driving at 75 mph down the freeway and the car showed it was in "Park". I was like......... what???? I took a pic but forgot to submit a bug report. Cleared itself up once I got off and put the car in park. Anyone else have this happen?
> 
> View attachment 30587


No, I haven't seen that issue, but it's -14c here today.....maybe when it warms up next spring


----------



## garsh

STUBBLEHEADEDMUTANT said:


> Anyone see this before? Pulled into a parking space at Wal-Mart, car went into hold. On the screen were rendered
> a greyed out autopilot steering wheel, a speed icon and nearby parked cars.* I pulled on the drive stock* and the Model 3 immediately began accelerating. It behaved just as it would on autopilot when a stopped car in front of you begins to move. In this case there were no cars parked in front of me. Never touched the accelerator or the brake.


It sounds like you may have accidentally "bounced" the stalk and pulled on it twice, activating autopilot.


----------



## DocScott

garsh said:


> It sounds like you may have accidentally "bounced" the stalk and pulled on it twice, activating autopilot.


Sure, but it still needs to see a car ahead to start. (AP won't start if the car is below 18 mph and there's no one ahead, presumably for this reason.)

Sometimes, though AP might think something up ahead is a car when it's not. My wife saw that once when she parked the car in front of a cafe with a big glass window. The car saw its reflection in the window, and thought it was another car!

So I could imagine some weird combination of events where AP saw a phantom car and then a double bounce engaged AP to close the gap with the phantom.

Is it possible it was something like that?


----------



## r-e-l

to "hold" mode - what is it for (to you)? 

Is it just about the driving experience (one pedal drive)? or its about more battery efficiency? "save braking pads"?

I drive most of the time with autopilot (even in the city) and in that regards, I don't see a chance because its relevant only in "manual" mode. But when I do use it, I feel acceleration is slower/heavier than prior release. I might not mind using it if it helps with battery but.. I am not sure how much it really helps.

So if the intent is the one pedal experience, I think I will opt out in favor of what feels faster/smoother experience.


----------



## STUBBLEHEADEDMUTANT

DocScott said:


> Sure, but it still needs to see a car ahead to start. (AP won't start if the car is below 18 mph and there's no one ahead, presumably for this reason.)
> 
> Sometimes, though AP might think something up ahead is a car when it's not. My wife saw that once when she parked the car in front of a cafe with a big glass window. The car saw its reflection in the window, and thought it was another car!
> 
> So I could imagine some weird combination of events where AP saw a phantom car and then a double bounce engaged AP to close the gap with the phantom.
> 
> Is it possible it was something like that?


Actually, it is repeatable as I pulled into my driveway with the garage door closed and let the car go into hold. I pulled the stock once. Every time I did so the car began to pull forward. Could be a problem when parked with a car in front of you. This is just a heads up so someone doesn't get an unpleasant surprise if the stock is accidently pulled down when in HOLD. Perhaps others should check it out as it may just be my car.


----------



## SimonMatthews

I experienced some very jerky Autopilot driving with this build. The car was accelerating and braking quite hard, while the car in front appeared to be traveling at a steady speed.


----------



## kataleen

SimonMatthews said:


> I experienced some very jerky Autopilot driving with this build. The car was accelerating and braking quite hard, while the car in front appeared to be traveling at a steady speed.


Same here. To make it even worse, the car in front was in the adjacent lane, not mine. AP kept braking and accelerating, marking that car as the reference car for some reason. That car was not signaling, but it was driving somewhat close to the edge of its lane, but definitely not on the markings.


----------



## kataleen

On a happier note, is it me or did they fix the reverse camera delay with this version? (Sorry if it was brought up before in this thread, it's quite long now)
It's very snappy since the update.


----------



## Bigriver

garsh said:


> Well, the car _did_ become more efficient (due to software updates) since last winter. And if that's the case, there's not as much waste heat to warm up the battery.


Curious what efficiency improvements you were thinking of? The only one I've been able to think of is the regen to 0 mph. Have there been more that my rusty brain is just failing to recall?


----------



## garsh

Bigriver said:


> Curious what efficiency improvements you were thinking of? The only one I've been able to think of is the regen to 0 mph. Have there been more that my rusty brain is just failing to recall?


I was thinking of this one.
https://www.tesla.com/blog/35000-tesla-model-3-available-now

_"We're also excited to announce that we're implementing a number of firmware upgrades for both new and existing customers. These upgrades will increase the range of the Long Range Rear-Wheel Drive Model 3 to 325 miles, increase the top speed of Model 3 Performance to 162 mph, and add an average of approximately 5% peak power to all Model 3 vehicles."_​
That announcement was end of February, but the updates came later. But I believe there were two updates, in April and May, that purported to increase range or power. Several of us noticed that the inverter/motor noises were noticeably different after those updates.

Interesting New Model 3 Sound


----------



## bwilson4web

I got the update and charging to 66%, the range estimate is 164 mi. Projecting range, 164/66% = 248 mi.

Bob Wilson


----------



## Mike

I just sent the following to my nearest Tesla service center:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Subject: unintended acceleration at 127 kph while foot off accelerator pedal slowing down after passing a slower vehicle.

Good afternoon Team Tesla:

I wish to make a formal "safety related" observation with this new software version.

Road conditions: clear and dry.

At or about 1202 EST (1702 GMT) today, Sunday, 17 Nov 2019, whilst using TACC on a two lane highway with a set point of 98 kph, whilst following slower moving traffic at a speed below 98 kph, I "floored it" to pull out to pass said moving traffic.

Once the slower moving traffic was passed, I returned to my lane.

I completely removed my foot from the accelerator pedal with the intention to let the car slow back down to the set speed of 98 kph without my intervention on either the accelerator or brake pedal.

I expected the car to slow down on its own until 98 kph was re-acquired.

As the car was decelerating thru 127 kph, the horizontal green regen line disappeared and was replaced with the black acceleration line as the car suddenly stopped slowing down and began to increase speed.

I disengaged TACC and the expected green regen line re-appeared.

The vehicle slowed back down to 98 kph and I re-engaged the TACC system at 98 kph with no further incident.

The above observed "unintended acceleration whilst decelerating with foot off the pedal" happened three other times today, between 0910 EST/1410 GMT and 1202 EST/1702 GMT, thus I was expecting the behavior at 1202 EST/1702 GMT.

A bug report was made at 1202 EST/1702 GMT.

Today, for all four events, the roads were clear and dry, I "floored it" to pass slower traffic, the TACC was set to 98 KPH, and as the car decelerated thru 127 kph, the regen turned into acceleration.*

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note: I wanted to send it to Tesla Corporate, but for some reason, I no longer have a communications option (as seen in screenshot below, I no longer have a communicate button):


----------



## Long Ranger

STUBBLEHEADEDMUTANT said:


> Anyone see this before? Pulled into a parking space at Wal-Mart, car went into hold. On the screen were rendered
> a greyed out autopilot steering wheel, a speed icon and nearby parked cars. I pulled on the drive stock and the Model 3 immediately began accelerating. It behaved just as it would on autopilot when a stopped car in front of you begins to move. In this case there were no cars parked in front of me. Never touched the accelerator or the brake.


Maybe I'm not understanding the issue here, but are you aware that pulling on the stalk once engages Traffic Aware Cruise Control?


----------



## DocScott

Long Ranger said:


> Maybe I'm not understanding the issue here, but are you aware that pulling on the stalk once engages Traffic Aware Cruise Control?


TACC isn't supposed to engage at under 18 mph if there's no car in front of you.


----------



## garsh

DocScott said:


> TACC isn't supposed to engage at under 18 mph if there's no car in front of you.


In @STUBBLEHEADEDMUTANT's case, he was in a parking lot, so it's likely that there was a car in front of him when this occurred. And if that car was across an aisle rather than directly in front, that could explain why the car decided to go forward - to close the gap.

I think @Long Ranger may have figured it out.


----------



## FRC

And you CAN Now engage TACC below 18 mph(all the way to 0). The 18 mph limit was changed many iterations ago.


----------



## 3V Pilot

FRC said:


> And you CAN Now engage TACC below 18 mph(all the way to 0). The 18 mph limit was changed many iterations ago.


My car has never been able to engage TACC below 18 mph. Only when there is a car in front of me will it work that slow. Has not changed since I've owned the car.


----------



## Needsdecaf

r-e-l said:


> to "hold" mode - what is it for (to you)?
> 
> Is it just about the driving experience (one pedal drive)? or its about more battery efficiency? "save braking pads"?
> 
> I drive most of the time with autopilot (even in the city) and in that regards, I don't see a chance because its relevant only in "manual" mode. But when I do use it, I feel acceleration is slower/heavier than prior release. I might not mind using it if it helps with battery but.. I am not sure how much it really helps.
> 
> So if the intent is the one pedal experience, I think I will opt out in favor of what feels faster/smoother experience.


One pedal only. Any efficiency gains or reduction in already negligible brake pad wear is not even worth mentioning.

And I agree. It's a good start, but it's half baked to me.


----------



## DocScott

I tested the parking lot accidental TACC engage thing today.

First of all, no, TACC will not engage below 18 mph without a car in front.

But sure enough, AP will recognize a car _several rows away_ as being a car in front! And it will even sometimes think the parking spaces are lane lines, so that the steering wheel icon will show up too.

I think this may be a side effect of AP getting better at noticing stopped cars in general. Parked cars along the side of the road, for example, used to rarely show up in the visualization, but now they often do.


----------



## FRC

Strange...I specifically tested this after your earlier post. My car will definitely engage TACC and AP at speeds under 18 with nothing in front of me. And it has been behaving this way for several months. I have no explanation for the difference.


----------



## ibgeek

FRC said:


> Strange...I specifically tested this after your earlier post. My car will definitely engage TACC and AP at speeds under 18 with nothing in front of me. And it has been behaving this way for several months. I have no explanation for the difference.


That is not a correct behavior. As was stated in the prior post, my car will not engage TACC without a car in front of it if it is traveling less than 18 MPH. You might want to contact support.


----------



## Derik

Well I've run into some interesting smart summon cases on this software. 

Smart summon worked well (ish) previously in the same location I'm using it now. I went to call the car using the goto target to the back door of my work (car was about 50 ft away.. simple right turn out of the spot). Car started coming out of the spot, turned it's left turn signal on and proceed to go away from me. I figured there wasn't anyone around so I'd just let it do it's thing. It went about 25 ft away found an open spot (which were handicap spots) and nosed in, did a 4 point turn, and then came back the correct direction toward me and stopped where i told it to. I thought it was strange that it went the wrong way.. but figured maybe it was a one time thing.

Next day I tried it again. This time in a spot 4 or 5 more spaces down. Car started up with summon and was just sitting there stating waiting for path to clear. There were no cars around, nothing in front of it etc. Thought it was even stranger. Walked over to the car to try it again, but again it would just go into waiting for path to clear. I stopped smart summon and did a normal summon forward out of the spot by a few feet just to see if that would work. No problem with normal summon. I put my target back at the door and tried smart summon again. This car was a few feet forward from where it was before (from the normal summon). This time it put the car in reverse and started backing up. Got to the point where it was waiting for the path to clear. Good thing there was a row of hedges behind the car otherwise it looks like it would have tried to back down a good size hill.

Pathing showed correct on both attempts in my work parking lot. But just really strange it picked the wrong way both times I've tried it so far on this software.

Openstreetmap looks fine where I've parked. So I really have no idea what is going on. I'll try it again today. Maybe the car couldn't get the initial heading correct. 

Mainly this is just a reminder to make sure you watch your smart summon attempts. It never did anything dangerous to itself or anyone around it, but did things I wouldn't expect.


----------



## GDN

This could be one of the highest percentage release installs in a long time. Per Teslafi - another 500 installs today, over 93% now for Teslafi tracked cars. 32.12.2 still has 135 installs and all other just almost only single digits. 

The number of miles racked up daily across 400,000 cars has to be invaluable to them.


----------



## Derik

Derik said:


> Next day I tried it again. This time in a spot 4 or 5 more spaces down. Car started up with summon and was just sitting there stating waiting for path to clear. There were no cars around, nothing in front of it etc. Thought it was even stranger. Walked over to the car to try it again, but again it would just go into waiting for path to clear. I stopped smart summon and did a normal summon forward out of the spot by a few feet just to see if that would work. No problem with normal summon. I put my target back at the door and tried smart summon again. This car was a few feet forward from where it was before (from the normal summon). This time it put the car in reverse and started backing up. Got to the point where it was waiting for the path to clear. Good thing there was a row of hedges behind the car otherwise it looks like it would have tried to back down a good size hill.


Same problem yesterday. Only main difference this time is it was actually raining.

Got it to work by using normal summon and forcing it to go across the parking aisle. One it stopped I did a smart summon and it backed up, and came directly to the target.

I'm going to have to try different spots to see if it's just that location, or it is something else. I suspect it's just the location I've parked.


----------



## Towerman

PaulK said:


> Does scheduled departure preheat the cabin even if not plugged in & charging on a given morning?


I'm trying to figure that out myself, so far I see no evidence that it is working, but since my climate is not super cold, it's hard to tell. *update* no, it does not pre-heat the cabin. My question is does it warm the batteries so that regen would work.


----------



## MarkB

njkode said:


> Just got this version last night, my wife gave up on hold mold in 30 seconds. I've yet to try it out yet but I typically will hang in there to get used to things.


My wife tried hold mode with me passenging. She said she hated it, and didn want it. We got to where we we going (9 km urban). Once there she was used to it, Now part of her profile.


----------



## SimonMatthews

I got a bit of a shock today. I was driving into San Francisco on the leftmost lane of the western span of the Bay Bridge using Autopilot. At the edge there is a small curb, but nothing on this curb. 

Suddenly Autopilot made my car swerve to the right. There was a car next to mine in the adjacent lane, so I naturally reacted and took control before it could hit the car in the adjacent car, but still quite a shock. I didn't see anything that should make the car swerve like that. Perhaps it might not have hit it, but I didn't want to take the chance. 

Another comment: is it my imagination that Autopilot changes the car's position in the lane to get more distance between the car and large trucks in adjacent lanes?


----------



## SimonMatthews

MarkB said:


> My wife tried hold mode with me passenging. She said she hated it, and didn want it. We got to where we we going (9 km urban). Once there she was used to it, Now part of her profile.


Hold mode is the best for driving around San Francisco. It's amazing how much easier it is to drive a Model 3 up and down the hills than any other vehicle. Hold mode makes it even easier.


----------



## Mesprit87

SimonMatthews said:


> Another comment: is it my imagination that Autopilot changes the car's position in the lane to get more distance between the car and large trucks in adjacent lanes?


It's not in your mind and has been reported on the version previous to this one ;-)


----------



## Mike

I've noticed an intermittent loss of the lane edge warning (that makes the steering wheel vibrate) since getting this version.

Some days it works perfectly, other days it is missing in action.

Happened again today, when I crossed a certain line at a certain narrowing section of road that always gives the steering wheel vibration, only I didn't get it.

And sure enough, no warning on any attempt to make it warn me that I have crossed a line.

My applicable UI settings are all correct, and I have tried shutting the warning off and on again.

Two scroll wheel reset, full power down, no change (today).

Bug report sent.


----------



## 3V Pilot

Mike said:


> I've noticed an intermittent loss of the lane edge warning (that makes the steering wheel vibrate) since getting this version.
> 
> Some days it works perfectly, other days it is missing in action.
> 
> Happened again today, when I crossed a certain line at a certain narrowing section of road that always gives the steering wheel vibration, only I didn't get it.
> 
> And sure enough, no warning on any attempt to make it warn me that I have crossed a line.
> 
> My applicable UI settings are all correct, and I have tried shutting the warning off and on again.
> 
> Two scroll wheel reset, full power down, no change (today).
> 
> Bug report sent.


I think with the newer version the car doesn't warn you if it detects your hands moving the wheel. Did you drift over the line or steer in that direction? Might be the difference you are feeling.


----------



## ibgeek

3V Pilot said:


> I think with the newer version the car doesn't warn you if it detects your hands moving the wheel. Did you drift over the line or steer in that direction? Might be the difference you are feeling.


Yes that's the way it was always supposed to work. Although it's been hit or miss.


----------



## Nom

Small thing I noticed ..... when I'd go to raise my driver window (quick pull up on lever so it auto raises all the way) - it would often raise an inch and then go back down. Usually when I tried again it worked (sometimes would hiccup a 2nd time). I tried the recalibration routine - didn't fix it. This software updated seemed to fix it.


----------



## Mike

3V Pilot said:


> I think with the newer version the car doesn't warn you if it detects your hands moving the wheel. Did you drift over the line or steer in that direction? Might be the difference you are feeling.


Agreed. If your vector is leading to a self correction, I'm convinced the warning does not occur.

The tell for me is the lane separation line at a narrowing area (that I mentioned).

Late this afternoon I had to run an unexpected errand and on the way home drove over that line and the warning worked perfectly.

So it seems to come and go, for me, since this latest version was installed.


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## bwilson4web

EchoCharlie3189 said:


> @MountainPass , any plans to re-dyno the SR+ with the added power?? I assume your last run would already have captured the first 5% bump they sent out in April?


They just did:





Bob Wilson


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## MarkB

Mike said:


> Agreed. If your vector is leading to a self correction, I'm convinced the warning does not occur.
> 
> The tell for me is the lane separation line at a narrowing area (that I mentioned).
> 
> Late this afternoon I had to run an unexpected errand and on the way home drove over that line and the warning worked perfectly.
> 
> So it seems to come and go, for me, since this latest version was installed.


My Lane Departure Avoidance doesn't seem to work at all in either "Warning" or "Assist" setting since getting this version.


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## SalisburySam

I’ve definitely noticed a strengthening in my Lane Departure Avoidance system. She has become quicker, louder, and less tolerant if that were possible.


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## PiperPaul

Nom said:


> Small thing I noticed ..... when I'd go to raise my driver window (quick pull up on lever so it auto raises all the way) - it would often raise an inch and then go back down. Usually when I tried again it worked (sometimes would hiccup a 2nd time). I tried the recalibration routine - didn't fix it. This software updated seemed to fix it.


I had the exact same experience, and I thought it was due to the update.
Lasted about three days and then the window switch went back to bad behaviour.
I did previously have success with the three point re-boot (only lasted a day or two) so I will be trying that again too as an experiment.


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## iChris93

Nom said:


> Small thing I noticed ..... when I'd go to raise my driver window (quick pull up on lever so it auto raises all the way) - it would often raise an inch and then go back down. Usually when I tried again it worked (sometimes would hiccup a 2nd time). I tried the recalibration routine - didn't fix it. This software updated seemed to fix it.


I had this issue when I first got my car. They had to replace the window regulator.


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## Mike

Well today Spotify would not work, would not recognize my password to sign in.

I tried the scroll reset and then a new password before it was happy.

Lane departure warning: it worked for first drive of the day and then didn't for the rest of the day.

Bug reports sent.

Off topic sidebar: mobile service is coming next week to fix the "knock knock knock" that comes from my drivers door pull strap everytime it swings open or swings closed.........and the solenoid that is supposed to keep my glove box door under my control (currently flies open under acceleration or because of the phase of the moon).


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## Kizzy

I’ve noticed at the bottom of steep hills the car will actually roll backward up the hill just a nudge before engaging hold.

This really says to me “regen to 0/use the motors to hold position.” I’ve also noticed a lot higher power usage when going downhill from my road to the highway. No heat on, so it’s not the cabin heater.


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## ibgeek

Kizzy said:


> I've noticed at the bottom of steep hills the car will actually roll backward up the hill just a nudge before engaging hold.
> 
> This really says to me "regen to 0/use the motors to hold position." I've also noticed a lot higher power usage when going downhill from my road to the highway. No heat on, so it's not the cabin heater.


The breaking is almost all regen but the second the car comes to a complete stop I can hear my break peddle depress for the hold. There is just the slightest noise when AP or hold engages the break. I'm not seeing any additional power usage unless the batteries are not conditioned (dots showing). Once regen is fully available my power usage actually goes down. Because hold needs to work cold batteries or no, I think that your likely seeing the additional power used during cold battery situations. On top of that it's getting colder at night so power consumption in the morning even with the heaters off will still be higher as the batteries are warmed up. You might want to try setting a departure time for your car one day if possible so that regen is 100% when you leave. See if that makes a difference or not.


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## Long Ranger

Kizzy said:


> I've noticed at the bottom of steep hills the car will actually roll backward up the hill just a nudge before engaging hold.


Yep, I've noticed that same underdamped response when I reach the bottom of my steep driveway. Except I'm backing down, so it bounces forward up the hill a tiny bit before stopping.

I've finally given up on Hold mode when backing down my driveway, it's just too tricky to do it safely and smoothly. I like Hold mode everywhere else.


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## Rich M

mkg3 said:


> Has anyone experienced Sentry mode camera issue since this update?
> 
> Since the update, only the rear camera is working. The other three files are blank files.





mkg3 said:


> So.... I did a reboot (2 steering wheel buttons and a brake pedal), and it all seem to be working again. just FYI...


All the clips in my "Recent" folder were 1kb and blank. I rebooted and it's now back to normal. Good catch!

Definitely *check all your TeslaCam folders* and make sure it's saving actual video!


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## bwilson4web

Here is the current profile for an 8:00 AM, scheduled departure time for our SR+ Model 3 with ambient 50 F (10 C) :








Being somewhat anal about schedules, I would take about 20 minutes off, say 7:40 AM, so it would complete at 8:00 AM. Even if a few minutes late, latency would still keep the car warm. On the other hand if 8:00 AM is a goal, you might add minutes to give it time to complete.

Bob Wilson


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## Mike

bwilson4web said:


> Here is the current profile for an 8:00 AM, scheduled departure time for our SR+ Model 3 with ambient 50 F (10 C) :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Being somewhat anal about schedules, I would take about 20 minutes off, say 7:40 AM, so it would complete at 8:00 AM. Even if a few minutes late, latency would still keep the car warm. On the other hand if 8:00 AM is a goal, you might add minutes to give it time to complete.
> 
> Bob Wilson


Bob,

To confirm my interpretation of what you have displayed is correct:

your car is plugged into a 15 amp/120 volt outlet,
at 0740 the car begins to activate the HVAC system, thus the initial spike of power from the grid between 0740:30 and 0741:00,
the HVAC system draw is a steady climb from 0 kW to about 0.55 kW between 0740:30 and 0747:00, thence
from 0747:00 on, the HVAC draw stabilizes around/under 0.5 kW, and
the car slowly ramps up its draw from the grid between 0747:30 and maxes out at 0821:00


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## bwilson4web

It is from Juicebox 40 Pro plugged into a NEMA 14-50 on a 50 A circuit. The right axis is the kW charge rate.

Like our BMW-i3 REx, there appears to be an initial probe charge over an hour earlier. I’ll need more data points at different temperatures to help map the algorithm.

Bob Wilson


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## Mike

bwilson4web said:


> It is from Juicebox 40 Pro plugged into a NEMA 14-50 on a 50 A circuit. The right axis is the kW charge rate.
> 
> Like our BMW-i3 REx, there appears to be an initial probe charge over an hour earlier. I'll need more data points at different temperatures to help map the algorithm.
> 
> Bob Wilson


Okay, right axis is power, got it. Cheers.


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## slasher016

This version has been mostly good for me -- until this weekend where she did some really strange behavior. I was on hour 6 of an 9 hour driving day and suddenly my screen was lagging. I wasn't showing updated speed, and it would take 2-4 seconds after I turned on AP for it to make the noise and actually do it. Was very disconcerting. At the next supercharger I did a reboot and it cleared up. Or so I thought. The next day (yesterday) I got a very weird but possibly unrelated screen malfunction. All the indicators flashed (like when you hit the brake when you get in to start a drive) and then my car drove along with it saying "D" instead of the speed and no other indicators worked. Putting it in park and then drive later corrected the issue. 

Also throughout this entire update I've had a lot of audio glitches where the sound will cut out for a second. That one is just merely annoying. Hopefully they push 40 wide soon.


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## JeanDeBarraux

I just can't figure out this pre-warming thing. It's set for my departing time of 9am. But at 9am, the car is neither warm and the battery is still cold. With temperatures near freezing, my regen is about half its warmer capability. In any case, this morning I left at 7:15am and then the car was warm and I had full regen...

Something new I noticed. I tried to use summon (not the smart version) and my driveway is slightly inclined (1 or 2% I'd say). I got a message saying the grade was too steep to use summon... This sucks.

Finally, I'm getting autopilot jailed twice since the update for no apparent reasons. I keep my hands on the wheel and apply more pressure when I see the warnings, but still, twice I got jailed...


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## iChris93

JeanDeBarraux said:


> Finally, I'm getting autopilot jailed twice since the update for no apparent reasons. I keep my hands on the wheel and apply more pressure when I see the warnings, but still, twice I got jailed...


Going over 90 mph will put you in jail.


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## FRC

JeanDeBarraux said:


> I just can't figure out this pre-warming thing. It's set for my departing time of 9am. But at 9am, the car is neither warm and the battery is still cold. With temperatures near freezing, my regen is about half its warmer capability. In any case, this morning I left at 7:15am and then the car was warm and I had full regen...
> 
> Something new I noticed. I tried to use summon (not the smart version) and my driveway is slightly inclined (1 or 2% I'd say). I got a message saying the grade was too steep to use summon... This sucks.
> 
> Finally, I'm getting autopilot jailed twice since the update for no apparent reasons. I keep my hands on the wheel and apply more pressure when I see the warnings, but still, twice I got jailed...


You do know that the required pressure is not a squeezing pressure, but a lateral or slight turning pressure?


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## kpedraja

Anyone notice new audio issues with the latest update? I've been getting a popping noise followed by a few seconds of mono audio then it switches back to stereo. Happens regardless of the audio source (e.g. radio, streaming, bluetooth, etc.).


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## Kizzy

JeanDeBarraux said:


> I just can't figure out this pre-warming thing. It's set for my departing time of 9am. But at 9am, the car is neither warm and the battery is still cold. With temperatures near freezing, my regen is about half its warmer capability. In any case, this morning I left at 7:15am and then the car was warm and I had full regen...
> 
> Something new I noticed. I tried to use summon (not the smart version) and my driveway is slightly inclined (1 or 2% I'd say). I got a message saying the grade was too steep to use summon... This sucks.
> 
> Finally, I'm getting autopilot jailed twice since the update for no apparent reasons. I keep my hands on the wheel and apply more pressure when I see the warnings, but still, twice I got jailed...


My understanding is that charging stops at 6 am at the latest, regardless of departure time (so your battery will probably get cold again by 9 am) and the departure warming is only for the cabin. I don't know why the heat doesn't come on to warm the interior of the car.


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## iChris93

Anyone experiencing issues with their mirrors not completely unfolding? I’m trying to decide whether it’s a software or hardware issue.


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## MelindaV

iChris93 said:


> Anyone experiencing issues with their mirrors not completely unfolding? I'm trying to decide whether it's a software or hardware issue.


on an early V10 release I had a day where they were not unfolding until the driver profile was reselected manually (sort of like the driver seat not moving into position issue), but it went away after a day or so. Or the next update that hit.


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## iChris93

MelindaV said:


> on an early V10 release I had a day where they were not unfolding until the driver profile was reselected manually (sort of like the driver seat not moving into position issue), but it went away after a day or so. Or the next update that hit.


I don't use easy entry so the way I get them to unfold correctly is to refold them from the settings screen and then unfold them again.


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## MelindaV

iChris93 said:


> I don't use easy entry so the way I get them to unfold correctly is to refold them from the settings screen and then unfold them again.


I would suspect if re-selecting the fold/unfold option moves them correctly, it is a software issue.


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## iChris93

MelindaV said:


> I would suspect if re-selecting the fold/unfold option moves them correctly, it is a software issue.


It's almost like it forgets it's calibration because when it refolds, it hits the brightwork. When I had a ranger come out a couple weeks ago and mentioned it. He said he would check it out while working on the car but never said anything when he was leaving and I never got an emailed invoice from them so I do not know what the result of that was.


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## JeanDeBarraux

iChris93 said:


> Going over 90 mph will put you in jail.


I'm in France. The speed limit on the highways is 130km/h (81mph), which I very rarely exceed. But this happens mostly on 70-80km/h (44-50mph) roads.



FRC said:


> You do know that the required pressure is not a squeezing pressure, but a lateral or slight turning pressure?


Yep. I do get the warnings and I rarely get to the point when the car beeps at me, but a few times, I didn't get the beeps, I just got jailed...



Kizzy said:


> My understanding is that charging stops at 6 am at the latest, regardless of departure time (so your battery will probably get cold again by 9 am) and the departure warming is only for the cabin. I don't know why the heat doesn't come on to warm the interior of the car.


Oh  that's not quite what I was expecting. Yeah, 6am is too early for me. Too bad.



iChris93 said:


> Anyone experiencing issues with their mirrors not completely unfolding? I'm trying to decide whether it's a software or hardware issue.


Yes I get the same issue since this update. Every once in a while, I get one mirror not unfolding. I thought it might be related to use profile, so I switched profiles a couple of times, I even unregistered my cell phone as locking device, re-registered it and changed the associated profile, but I still have the issue... I'll just wait for the next update...


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## iChris93

JeanDeBarraux said:


> Yes I get the same issue since this update. Every once in a while, I get one mirror not unfolding. I thought it might be related to use profile, so I switched profiles a couple of times, I even unregistered my cell phone as locking device, re-registered it and changed the associated profile, but I still have the issue... I'll just wait for the next update...


I got updated last night so today will be the test.


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## FRC

iChris93 said:


> I got updated last night so today will be the test.


Seems odd to me that you updated to 36.2.1 yesterday while I was moving from 36.2.1 to 36.2.4. Does everyone have to move through 36.2.1?


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## iChris93

FRC said:


> Seems odd to me that you updated to 36.2.1 yesterday while I was moving from 36.2.1 to 36.2.4. Does everyone have to move through 36.2.1?


Sorry, I did get updated to 36.2.4 from 36.2.1.


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## M3OC Rules

FRC said:


> Seems odd to me that you updated to 36.2.1 yesterday while I was moving from 36.2.1 to 36.2.4. Does everyone have to move through 36.2.1?


No everyone doesn't need to go through 36.2.1 but their goal isn't to have everyone on the same version all the time. What you described as odd is not that uncommon if you watch TeslaFi.com.


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## FRC

M3OC Rules said:


> if you watch TeslaFi.com.


I do not.


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