# V9 Feature: No Confirmation Lane Change



## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

It's here!! Check it out in all its glory!


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## AugustaDriver (Jul 21, 2017)

So now the blue banner at the top of the screen is used to indicate the direction of the upcoming lane change?


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## TheHairyOne (Nov 28, 2018)

Sweet nice incremental update toward FSD. Which I actually prefer over a sudden surprise some day.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

AugustaDriver said:


> So now the blue banner at the top of the screen is used to indicate the direction of the upcoming lane change?


After playing back my own video I realized that the car won't change lanes without your hands on the wheel. That's such a smart feature!!! It's going to make us all better Autopilot drivers.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> After playing back my own video I realized that the car won't change lanes without your hands on the wheel. That's such a smart feature!!! It's going to make us all better Autopilot drivers.


Didn't your first freeway entrance and lane change happen without hands on the wheel? And you were able to cruise a ways without touching the wheel? Was it just coincidental timing? What would happen if you just adjusted the volume instead of torquing the wheel? Will have to trial this in the AM.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

GDN said:


> Didn't your first freeway entrance and lane change happen without hands on the wheel? And you were able to cruise a ways without touching the wheel? Was it just coincidental timing? What would happen if you just adjusted the volume instead of torquing the wheel? Will have to trial this in the AM.


Will play more (cautiously) tomorrow on my rush hour commute but it seems to be clear that it won't change lanes if you're not holding the wheel. The first merge was necessity because I would have run out of road.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

I tried it out this morning.

When merging onto the interstate, it got confused. It popped up the warning about an upcoming lane change. But then we ran out of on-ramp right before it initiated the turn signal, so the car got "shoved" into the slow lane by the disappearing on-ramp lines.

But the turn signal remained on - it wanted to switch to the left lane. I just cancelled that before it got started.


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## Dogwhistle (Jul 2, 2017)

Yeah, merging on-ramps still seem to be the biggest thing baffling NoA. I think it has mostly to do with the granularity of the map info it has for each one, many it just doesn’t have enough info to know what to do! Most of mine, it just runs out of lane, and force-merges.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> After playing back my own video I realized that the car won't change lanes without your hands on the wheel. That's such a smart feature!!! It's going to make us all better Autopilot drivers.


Agreed... a wise choice!


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

Has anyone else been repeatedly annoyed when attempting to cancel a NOA lane change? Since it often trues to change at the wrong time, I often try to cancel, and hitting the blinker stalk then leaves your blinker on. So now you look like some idiot swerving back and forth in the lane with left blinker on (by NOA) then right blinker on (by me cancelling) and sometimes back to left blinker on again as I attempt to cancel out the now-stuck-on right blinker.
Or maybe they've improved this...


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

JWardell said:


> Or maybe they've improved this...


I just tap the screen to cancel. No blinker issues.


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## JWardell (May 9, 2016)

garsh said:


> I just tap the screen to cancel. No blinker issues.


That may be new...documentation always said use signal. One of the long list of Tesla issue/feedback emails I've sent that never got a response.
I should have a chance to test some more tomorrow.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

I also gave it a shot on the commute this morning, and while it handled two lane changes OK it couldn't handle my on ramp at all, or maybe I just didn't give it time. Traffic was moving about 30 MPH, bumper to bumper and no one let's you over easy. The car turns the blinker on and slows down and then speeds up a bit and I've got cars behind me, I just took over. I want the NN to learn and I want it to get better, so will use it when I can, but rush hour right now isn't the best place. It will get better I'm sure and will give it another shot another time.

I also had a much better experience with NOA in general today about suggesting lane changes. I turned Mad Max down to average and it was 200% better. Mad Max suggests many lane changes and not worth it in my opinion, at least not in moderate traffic. Again - a months time we hope to see improvements and will try again. @JWardell - not sure which option you have, but might consider turning it down to average if you are on Mad Max for those lane changes. For the record to cancel - I also hit the blue notice at the top of the driving directions.


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## theblindtree (May 1, 2018)

I tried it out on my morning commute as well, and other than one confusion with a lane change (a safe merge but in a construction zone), it performed much better than I expected. In fact, it handled most of the changes, on-ramp and off-ramp, with some degree of skill. Impressive!

That being said, I would still rate NoAP at the skill level of a driver's education student - pretty good, getting more confident, still needs work on responsive behavior reaction awareness. I'm always surprised that any car that I can clearly see merging into my lane seems to catch AP off guard... (Well, not surprised but rather curious about the interpretation)


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## NOGA$4ME (Sep 30, 2016)

Regarding merging onto the highway...sometimes it works well, and sometimes the system is just a bit slow.

Many human drivers will start their lane change at the absolute earliest possible opportunity, sometimes cutting across the solid white line. At the very least the merge will initiate at the end of the solid white line/beginning of the dashed line.

With NoA, it first has to detect the highway lane (after the end of the solid white line); then it has to warn you about a lane change (steering wheel shake/beep); then it has to turn on the blinker and...ooops, just ran out of lane!

Meanwhile, everyone behind you has pulled into the left lane and is now blocking you from merging in.

It's not an easy problem to solve, but I suspect the car is up to it. They/we just need to get more confident in its abilities and then they can reduce the time it takes to make lane change decisions (and maybe avoid the time delay to allow you to cancel).


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## FRC (Aug 4, 2018)

I, like many, just came from 5.15 thru 8.4 t0 8.5. I had a chance for 80 mile test run this morning and was pretty impressed. The main reason for my trip was to test 8.5 out, so I was able to play around with it quite a bit. Like @GDN(BTW, GDN, what does NN mean). I have lane change set to medium. Lane changes were smooth and for the most part appropriate. I think @theblindtree says it well, much like a third week drivers ed student. improving all the time. Cancelling lane change is unwieldy, can be done with turn stalk with practice, and you've got to be pretty quick to cancel with screen tap.

I've done several road-trips, and it's been interesting to see the evolution of autopilot regarding lane changes. Back in October, under EAP, I would find myself behind another vehicle going much slower than TACC was set, simply because I didn't notice the gradual deceleration and was content to let TACC do the work. With confirmed lane change, the car would nag me to change lanes instead of remaining behind a slower vehicle. Certainly an improvement, but a bit like travelling with you spouse! I'm really looking forward to 8.5 on my upcoming 8,000 mile trip. I think it will be seamless on the open uncongested stretches, and will be very helpful on unfamiliar urban interchanges.

The only real issue I had today was upon exit from the highway. I had AP set at 80 mph and follow set at 3. I was following a vehicle in the left lane at about 70 mph. There was another vehicle in the right lane very slightly behind me also going about 70. As my exit was looming about a mile ahead NOA signaled a right hand lane change. I could tell this was going to be an issue and let it play out to see what would happen. I felt like there were three options...1) There was sufficient room ahead to accelerate and make the lane change(this is the option I would have chosen)...2) We could slow down and pull in behind the car on my right. 3) We could miss our exit and continue to the next one. NOA chose none of these, instead we rode for almost a mile with the blinker on until the right lane car slowed enough for NOA to safely change lanes. I don't know what would have happened if right lane hadn't slowed. I certainly could have overridden NOA and avoided the situation, but I was too curious to see what would happen.

I can confirm that NOA won't change lanes without "hands-on-wheel". I typically ride with my left hand hanging from the wheel and rarely see nags. This set-up also avoided the nag during lane changes. But if you're not "hands-on-wheel" when the lane change alert begins, even if it nagged 2 seconds prior, it won't lane change until you are again "hands-on-wheel'.

All in all, I'd give this update a solid A-. Can't wait to see what's next.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

@SoFlaModel3 Can you comment on your wipers coming on during the video. I'll be honest and say I can't tell if it was raining on not, but your wipers thought so. The wiper action might or might not be something they are working on in the beta releases.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

FRC said:


> I, like many, just came from 5.15 thru 8.4 t0 8.5. I had a chance for 80 mile test run this morning and was pretty impressed. The main reason for my trip was to test 8.5 out, so I was able to play around with it quite a bit. Like @GDN(BTW, GDN, what does NN mean). I have lane change set to medium. Lane changes were smooth and for the most part appropriate. I think @theblindtree says it well, much like a third week drivers ed student. improving all the time. Cancelling lane change is unwieldy, can be done with turn stalk with practice, and you've got to be pretty quick to cancel with screen tap.
> 
> I've done several road-trips, and it's been interesting to see the evolution of autopilot regarding lane changes. Back in October, under EAP, I would find myself behind another vehicle going much slower than TACC was set, simply because I didn't notice the gradual deceleration and was content to let TACC do the work. With confirmed lane change, the car would nag me to change lanes instead of remaining behind a slower vehicle. Certainly an improvement, but a bit like travelling with you spouse! I'm really looking forward to 8.5 on my upcoming 8,000 mile trip. I think it will be seamless on the open uncongested stretches, and will be very helpful on unfamiliar urban interchanges.
> 
> ...


NN - Nerual Network. Some of the new things in our IT world. I don't pretend to understand it at all, but they are pretty dang cool. I need to read and understand more about them.


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## slotti (May 29, 2018)

Glad to hear is was working for you. I had the complete opposite experience this morning on my commute. Was excited about using the new feature but it pretty much failed during the entire drive. Granted, I am in LA and traffic on 101, 405 and 10 makes it tough for the car to do any auto lane change, but it would be very illogical about the entire drive. Transition from 405 to I-10. One mile ahead and the car wants to get into the most left passing lane. 500 feet to the exit and no indication of moving to the right, so I had to take over. 
Exiting I-10. I was already in the most right lane. Exit is coming up, 300 feet in front of the exit, the car puts on the turn signal, moves to the right side of the lane....I am thinking great. I am 50 feet away from the actual off-ramp and the car jerks to the left and pulls into running traffic. I was barely able to avoid a collision with the cars on my left.


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## panpanbebe (Feb 14, 2019)

I can't find if this is the beat setting for the new features Tesla just add on?

Do I need "Require lane change confirmation" to be off in order for Lane notification to activate it?


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

panpanbebe said:


> I can't find if this is the beat setting for the new features Tesla just add on?
> 
> Do I need "Require lane change confirmation" to be off in order for Lane notification to activate it?
> View attachment 24406


Require lane change confirmation should be sent to off if you would the car to change lanes without having to press one of the stalks.


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## panpanbebe (Feb 14, 2019)

Thanks I will test later


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## theblindtree (May 1, 2018)

slotti said:


> Glad to hear is was working for you. I had the complete opposite experience this morning on my commute. Was excited about using the new feature but it pretty much failed during the entire drive. Granted, I am in LA and traffic on 101, 405 and 10 makes it tough for the car to do any auto lane change, but it would be very illogical about the entire drive. Transition from 405 to I-10. One mile ahead and the car wants to get into the most left passing lane. 500 feet to the exit and no indication of moving to the right, so I had to take over.
> Exiting I-10. I was already in the most right lane. Exit is coming up, 300 feet in front of the exit, the car puts on the turn signal, moves to the right side of the lane....I am thinking great. I am 50 feet away from the actual off-ramp and the car jerks to the left and pulls into running traffic. I was barely able to avoid a collision with the cars on my left.


Sorry to hear about your experience but glad you (and everyone around you) are safe. I'm still watching mine like a hawk whenever I use NoAP, especially when I feel like it should be taking advantage of or deferring certain opportunities. If there is one thing to be said, it needs some tuning to better realize when the car NEEDS to be in the exit lane. I agree that it sticks to the script a bit too much (not enough?) at times - I'm not one to pile drive around cars at the last minute to maintain my speed and also make my exit. If it can learn to be in the turn off lane at least a mile ahead of time, it's golden.

I try not to think of it as a consumer-ready project yet either though. No one should, even if we think we deserve it because we paid for it. It'll get there. In the meantime, I am happy for the NN to be learning so that it will be better in the future. Early (and exciting but sometimes frustrating) days.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

I used NoA for some of my commute this morning. my freeway interchange always has stopped traffic to merge into, so I ended up going to just TACC coming up to it... then again on NoA at my exit, I ended up taking over as it was not turning soon enough (and didnt want to be the reason the crash attenuator was smashed) as my exit that doesn't have any lane leading up to it and requires a pretty sudden shift to the right.


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## Jay79 (Aug 18, 2018)

I tried it very briefly yesterday in light traffic, seemed to work decent enough although I was in Mad Max mode and the car in front was going much slower than my cruise speed and it didn't initiate a lane change. Lots of work to be done with this feature before its rock solid. I'd imagine it will take most of the year of data collecting and updates to the NN to start to iron out the kinks. Very cool beginnings though, I feel like we are literally making history with the data our cars send back to Tesla.


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## kendthomp (Apr 24, 2016)

My experience going from an on ramp to an expressway with a 75MPH speed limit caused a brief problem with the car not changing the speed limit to 75 from 55. It started the merge but failed to accelerate. Pressure on the peddle solved the problem, but I manually had to advance the speed with the thumb wheel to 75.


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## GateFather (Nov 1, 2018)

Received this update today and took the car for a drive today aftewards. The "No-Confirm" NOA is very cool, but I wouldn't exactly call it "no-confirm." Although it will put the turn signal on and show you that it wants to go over a lane, it won't actually move over until you put light pressure on the wheel like you normally have to every so often when using TACC+Autosteer. In a way, they simply moved the action from moving the turn signal stalk up/down, to after its been engaged, but there is still a confirmation. I'm fine with step changes like these as it gives people small increments to get used to the new features. In this case Tesla simply gave the car the ability to initiate a lane change by both notifying you that it wants to (like it did before via the screen) *and* beginning the process by engaging the turn signal. To truly move a lane though, an action and confirmation IS still required by the user (slight force to the wheel). See this video I took from my drive today.


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## panpanbebe (Feb 14, 2019)

One more question, this feature only can activate on freeway right?


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

kendthomp said:


> but I manually had to advance the speed with the thumb wheel to 75.


you can also tap the speed limit sign to jump to whatever it is showing for the current speed limit. Sometimes that is faster/easier than using the thumb wheel.


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## kendthomp (Apr 24, 2016)

MelindaV said:


> you can also tap the speed limit sign to jump to whatever it is showing for the current speed limit. Sometimes that is faster/easier than using the thumb wheel.


The speed limit on the screen still showed 55. It should have shown 75. It didn't change to 75 for almost a mile.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

theblindtree said:


> If there is one thing to be said, it needs some tuning to better realize when the car NEEDS to be in the exit lane. I agree that it sticks to the script a bit too much (not enough?) at times - I'm not one to pile drive around cars at the last minute to maintain my speed and also make my exit. If it can learn to be in the turn off lane at least a mile ahead of time, it's golden.


...and to that end, we should all keep in mind that the car records data (and video, IIRC) from "driver takeover" events, and feeds them back to Tesla HQ. The Autopilot team can use that data to train and refine future iterations of NoA to make its behavior more "human." So, by taking over from NoA in exit / merge situations that it cannot yet handle, and showing it how a (responsible!) human driver handles these cases, we are collectively helping NoA learn and improve.


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## Silver Streak 3 (Apr 3, 2018)

You must apply light pressure whenever you use Autopilot or NOA. 2019.8.5 didn’t change that. I just finished testing and it worked great. Course my hands were applying light pressure as always.


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## kendthomp (Apr 24, 2016)

panpanbebe said:


> One more question, this feature only can activate on freeway right?


No, you can activate it before you enter the freeway.


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## NOGA$4ME (Sep 30, 2016)

GateFather said:


> Received this update today and took the car for a drive today aftewards. The "No-Confirm" NOA is very cool, but I wouldn't exactly call it "no-confirm."


I guess it depends on your style of using autopilot. My hand is always on the wheel providing a little torque. I guess it helps that I've always felt that my car hugs the left side of the lane, so I'm constantly putting a slight "right turn" pressure on the wheel.


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## Silver Streak 3 (Apr 3, 2018)

NOGA$4ME said:


> I guess it depends on your style of using autopilot. My hand is always on the wheel providing a little torque. I guess it helps that I've always felt that my car hugs the left side of the lane, so I'm constantly putting a slight "right turn" pressure on the wheel.


Yup I hear that! Plus I hug my car when I pull into garage too!


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

panpanbebe said:


> One more question, this feature only can activate on freeway right?


If you're asking whether Navigate on Autopilot can only auto-lane-change on freeways, then the answer is basically yes.

The car's map data determines the roads where Navigate on Autopilot can be active, and at the moment (to the best of my knowledge), those roads include some (but not all) major, divided highways. I believe most interstate highways are covered (apart from underground sections, such as Boston's Big Dig tunnels).


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## GateFather (Nov 1, 2018)

Silver Streak 3 said:


> You must apply light pressure whenever you use Autopilot or NOA. 2019.8.5 didn't change that. I just finished testing and it worked great. Course my hands were applying light pressure as always.





NOGA$4ME said:


> I guess it depends on your style of using autopilot. My hand is always on the wheel providing a little torque. I guess it helps that I've always felt that my car hugs the left side of the lane, so I'm constantly putting a slight "right turn" pressure on the wheel.


Understood that you're supposed to apply light pressure and I do lightly hold the wheel while on NoA. However, I only sporadically apply some form of pressure one way or the other in order to either satisfy or prevent the "Apply Light Pressure..." message. Are others constantly pulling the wheel to one side or the other the ENTIRE time they are driving under NoA? My comment regarding a confirmation still existing in 8.5 even without the turn signal stalk being moved is because each time the car wants to move over, it specifically, at that time, brings up the "Apply light pressure..." prompt in order for you to apply that pressure before it makes the move. This is what I'm seeing with my vehicle, is it not the same in other's experiences?


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## tivoboy (Mar 24, 2017)

Bokonon said:


> Agreed... a wise choice!
> 
> View attachment 24394


There is simply no company in the world that should use the word abdicate in an informational message to consumers


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

Silver Streak 3 said:


> You must apply light pressure whenever you use Autopilot or NOA. 2019.8.5 didn't change that. I just finished testing and it worked great. Course my hands were applying light pressure as always.


Yeah, but now it REALLY wants to know that you've got a grip on the wheel.



NOGA$4ME said:


> I guess it depends on your style of using autopilot. My hand is always on the wheel providing a little torque. I guess it helps that I've always felt that my car hugs the left side of the lane, so I'm constantly putting a slight "right turn" pressure on the wheel.


I am often at odds with autopilot's definition of what constitutes light force. I almost always have my hand on the wheel in a driving position when using EAP. Often I get messages to "apply light force" when I already am! A quick tug shuts it up.



GateFather said:


> Understood that you're supposed to apply light pressure and I do lightly hold the wheel while on NoA. However, I only sporadically apply some form of pressure one way or the other in order to either satisfy or prevent the "Apply Light Pressure..." message. Are others constantly pulling the wheel to one side or the other the ENTIRE time they are driving under NoA? My comment regarding a confirmation still existing in 8.5 even without the turn signal stalk being moved is because each time the car wants to move over, it specifically, at that time, brings up the "Apply light pressure..." prompt in order for you to apply that pressure before it makes the move. This is what I'm seeing with my vehicle, is it not the same in other's experiences?


Agreed.

If you're not pulling allllllmost hard enough to kill control of EAP / NOA, then it's going to ask you to apply force to the wheel prior to it making a lane change. Basically, whether you've timed out or not, they've clearly made it a condition of the non-confirmed lane change that you have to have a firm grasp on the wheel, not just a light one.


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## GateFather (Nov 1, 2018)

Needsdecaf said:


> If you're not pulling allllllmost hard enough to kill control of EAP / NOA, then it's going to ask you to apply force to the wheel prior to it making a lane change. Basically, whether you've timed out or not, they've clearly made it a condition of the non-confirmed lane change that you have to have a firm grasp on the wheel, not just a light one.


And because the prompt comes up everytime the car wants to move over (if you're not already pulling on the wheel almost to the point of turning off NoA), then it sort of becomes a confirmaiton. So my point really was just that this isn't "no-confirm" NoA, its just different type of confirm NoA. Maybe we call it final-confirm NoA haha.


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## Reliev (Jun 3, 2017)

you can toggle your carpool lane off and on I believe its hov no? I could be wrong on this.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

GateFather said:


> Understood that you're supposed to apply light pressure and I do lightly hold the wheel while on NoA. However, I only sporadically apply some form of pressure one way or the other in order to either satisfy or prevent the "Apply Light Pressure..." message. Are others constantly pulling the wheel to one side or the other the ENTIRE time they are driving under NoA? My comment regarding a confirmation still existing in 8.5 even without the turn signal stalk being moved is because each time the car wants to move over, it specifically, at that time, brings up the "Apply light pressure..." prompt in order for you to apply that pressure before it makes the move. This is what I'm seeing with my vehicle, is it not the same in other's experiences?


95% of the time, I do have pressure on the wheel. not to avoid the "apply light pressure" message, but to be able to take over immediately as needed.


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## Unplugged (Apr 5, 2016)

I just tested the new Navigate on Autopilot with automatic lane changes: It needs work. The real problem is that less than a mile from the exit, Tesla is demanding that I head to the carpool lane. Of course, you can't get into the carpool lane because there is no opening, but try telling that to Tesla. A particular exit has two exit lanes and it is necessary to set up for the exit beginning a mile back. But the Autopilot wants to head over to the fast lanes rather than prepare to exit. Tesla needs to dial back the requirement for lane changes to the left when an exit is coming up on the right in a mile. Auto lane change might work better if I didn't have Nav default to carpool.

On another instance, Autopilot correctly navigated the carpool lane interchange with a fly-over to the next freeway. On this ramp, the carpool lane leaves a little room to exit left to the fly-over carpool lane. The center barrier is about three feet from the marked lane. Every time Autopilot makes the lane change it is so abrupt that the driver instinctively grabs the wheel for fear the car will bounce into the barrier. The Model 3 would probably remain in the lane, but who wants to test that out?

Finally, on one of my tests, Nav had me going on the map one way, and the turn-by-turn going another. As the below photo shows, Tesla was confused to say the least. The map had the correct destination. The Autopilot tried to take me the very long way, rather than the shorter direction as on the map. (Sorry about the reflections on the photo.) You can see that the about two miles out of the way. Automatic lane change on Autopilot attempted to take me the longer way.


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## viperd (Feb 17, 2017)

JWardell said:


> Has anyone else been repeatedly annoyed when attempting to cancel a NOA lane change? Since it often trues to change at the wrong time, I often try to cancel, and hitting the blinker stalk then leaves your blinker on. So now you look like some idiot swerving back and forth in the lane with left blinker on (by NOA) then right blinker on (by me cancelling) and sometimes back to left blinker on again as I attempt to cancel out the now-stuck-on right blinker.
> Or maybe they've improved this...


Yes, normally when the blinker is on you can tap the turn signal for the direction that is blinking to cancel (i.e. if left blinker is blinking, tap turn stock down to cancel). But if you cancel a lane change, this does not work. You have to turn the blinker on for the other direction. Not sure if this is a bug, but I'd prefer the functionality to be continuous and not have to tap the opposite direction.


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## panpanbebe (Feb 14, 2019)

This new update works good but not sure it won’t stay in on lane, every now and then try to switch lane to left and right. Also I was in the traffic on freeway, speed is like 20 it’s really tricky try to switch lane


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## theblindtree (May 1, 2018)

I've applied the same amount of pressure I've always used with AP, leaving my hand rested on the lower portion of the wheel with just enough resistance. I've not had a problem yet. It shouldn't feel like you have to fight it at all.

Tried it again on my drive home, and other than a couple of instances where I had to manually accelerate due to the car being too timid for the lane change or brake for a very short merge lane, it worked better the second time - and in heavier traffic. I basically try to anticipate where it might have problems, but it's done quite well.


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## RichEV (Sep 21, 2017)

GateFather said:


> And because the prompt comes up everytime the car wants to move over (if you're not already pulling on the wheel almost to the point of turning off NoA), then it sort of becomes a confirmaiton. So my point really was just that this isn't "no-confirm" NoA, its just different type of confirm NoA. Maybe we call it final-confirm NoA haha.


Do you have the vibrate wheel notification turned on? I found that little bit of wheel vibrating at me was easy to respond to with a little bit of "ok I'm Here" pressure. Seemed pretty natural to me.


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## TheHairyOne (Nov 28, 2018)

Drove with it on for 90 seconds in moderate traffic on way home. Had to turn it off. Changed into fast lane, completely, then immediately went back into other lane which I tried to cancel but it went anyway. Then the with music at 70% I realized the blinker was still on after someone flashed me from behind. Will try again next week but not in mad max mode


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## LucyferSam (Sep 13, 2017)

Tried it out last night, keeping lane change confirm on in one direction because i forgot to turn it off before I left and you can't change it while driving, and without confirm on the way home at ~ 1am, so very light traffic. The overall system is way better than the last time I tried using a couple months ago. An interesting note for those with carpool on having it favor being in the carpool lane far to close to the exit, for me without carpool on it wanted to get into the exit lane way earlier than I would, at about 2.5 miles before the exit in medium traffic, which would have left me going much slower or weaving back into the middle or left lanes multiple times. 

Also, while I'm glad it now knows that it should default return to the right lane, it is too aggressive at doing so when passing a semi. NoA put the blinker on which immediately showed the truck it had just passed in red showing it was not safe to change lanes, plus there was another truck ahead that any normal driver would have just stayed in the same lane to also pass as it was going slower yet than the just passed truck - to the point the car tried to slow down as it changed lanes in front of the faster moving truck... I stepped on the accelerator to allow it to finish the lane change without interfering with the truck I'd just passed, and NoA immediately initiated a change back to the left lane to pass the next truck.

It's come a long way in a few months, and is a very impressive system with a few quirks left to work out. I just hope everyone using it understands it well enough to be very careful in this time while the system is still rapidly improving rather than relying on it handling everything...


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

Bokonon said:


> Agreed... a wise choice!
> 
> View attachment 24394


I guess reading before testing was probably the smart thing to do


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

GDN said:


> @SoFlaModel3 Can you comment on your wipers coming on during the video. I'll be honest and say I can't tell if it was raining on not, but your wipers thought so. The wiper action might or might not be something they are working on in the beta releases.


There was a light rain that the camera didn't pick up


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## GateFather (Nov 1, 2018)

SoFlaModel3 said:


> I guess reading before testing was probably the smart thing to do


This makes complete sense to me and I did know it before testing. I'm just surprised by the amount of people out there who seem to be spreading the idea that the car will do the lane changes completely without confirmation while only periodically satisfying the "please apply light pressure" prompt (normally, it's always been). In reality, the same occasionally applied torque that satisfies the nag either needs to be constant while on NoA OR needs to be satisfied each time the car attempts to change lanes after it initiates the turn signal. I think the disconnect is that many are like me, using NoA with hands on wheel lightly, but not enough to prevent "apply light pressure" nagging. For us, it seems like another nag. This time it's in the form of a lane change confirmation moved from a signal stalk movement (without "no-confirm" activated) to a wheel movement (with "no-confirm activated)


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

GateFather said:


> This makes complete sense to me and I did know it before testing. I'm just surprised by the amount of people out there who seem to be spreading the idea that the car will do the lane changes completely without confirmation while only periodically satisfying the "please apply light pressure" prompt (normally, it's always been). In reality, the same occasionally applied torque that satisfies the nag either needs to be constant while on NoA OR needs to be satisfied each time the car attempts to change lanes after it initiates the turn signal. I think the disconnect is that many are like me, using NoA with hands on wheel lightly, but not enough to prevent "apply light pressure" nagging. For us, it seems like another nag. This time it's in the form of a lane change confirmation moved from a signal stalk movement (without "no-confirm" activated) to a wheel movement (with "no-confirm activated)


Yeah I noticed that in my first few days where of course I normally rest my hand on the wheel but the force wasn't enough for its liking in some cases.


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## Chip Douglas (Jan 3, 2019)

How is NoA supposed to work with “no confirmation”. I find that I don’t have to touch confirm via stalk but I still need to “confirm” by slightly moving the wheel (same as when alert comes up during AP). Is this still considered “no confirmation”?


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

Chip Douglas said:


> How is NoA supposed to work with "no confirmation". I find that I don't have to touch confirm via stalk but I still need to "confirm" by slightly moving the wheel (same as when alert comes up during AP). Is this still considered "no confirmation"?


yes. the car is looking for confirmation you are there with your hands on the wheel paying attention before it makes a lane change. you don't have to 'move' the wheel, but have tension on it.


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## Vin (Mar 30, 2017)

Chip Douglas said:


> How is NoA supposed to work with "no confirmation". I find that I don't have to touch confirm via stalk but I still need to "confirm" by slightly moving the wheel (same as when alert comes up during AP). Is this still considered "no confirmation"?


Yes, Elon stated that for now there needs to be a touch of the wheel to confirm the change even with the new "no confirmation" setting until a billion miles helps validate that they can do "no touch" of the wheel. It's just like any FSD or EAP feature rolled out- they will do small steps first then start to open it up once proven safe enough for Tesla and regulators. 
I do wish we didn't have to touch the wheel but I understand why they have that as a requirement at the moment.


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## Mike (Apr 4, 2016)

Chip Douglas said:


> How is NoA supposed to work with "no confirmation". I find that I don't have to touch confirm via stalk but I still need to "confirm" by slightly moving the wheel (same as when alert comes up during AP). Is this still considered "no confirmation"?


In addition to the other replies: expect a two second lag between application of slight rotational torque on the steering wheel (tells the car you agree with the impending lane change) and commencement of lane change.


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

If you are in no confirmation mode with noa and you do a manual Lane change by turning on the signal does it give up and stop doing Lane changes itself? Seems like it's always timed out for awhile before this release but now I don't think I've seen it do Lane changes after I've done a manual one.


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## Long Ranger (Jun 1, 2018)

M3OC Rules said:


> If you are in no confirmation mode with noa and you do a manual Lane change by turning on the signal does it give up and stop doing Lane changes itself? Seems like it's always timed out for awhile before this release but now I don't think I've seen it do Lane changes after I've done a manual one.


I'm pretty sure it doesn't give up on automatic lane changes after a manual one. This morning I did a manual lane change to move over one lane and then the car moved over one more shortly afterwards. I don't think I'm forgetting any disengagement in between.


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## sduck (Nov 23, 2017)

Chip Douglas said:


> How is NoA supposed to work with "no confirmation". I find that I don't have to touch confirm via stalk but I still need to "confirm" by slightly moving the wheel (same as when alert comes up during AP). Is this still considered "no confirmation"?


You are using autopilot when using NOA, and you're supposed to keep your hand on the wheel whenever using autopilot. This is pretty basic stuff, please learn how to use basic autopilot correctly before adding on advanced features. It's really easy to keep your hand on the wheel, with just enough pressure to eliminate the ocassional nag - this is a good skill to learn. And once you've gotten enough hours on autopilot you'll start appreciating the effort, as situations WILL crop up that require immediate attention from you.


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## undergrove (Jan 17, 2018)

M3OC Rules said:


> If you are in no confirmation mode with noa and you do a manual Lane change by turning on the signal does it give up and stop doing Lane changes itself? Seems like it's always timed out for awhile before this release but now I don't think I've seen it do Lane changes after I've done a manual one.


I have done manually initiated lane changes a number of times while on NoA in no confirmation mode. It continues to function as before.


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## nonStopSwagger (May 7, 2018)

Anybody recommend a comfortable hand position to avoid the nag with NoA?

My old position of 7 OC doesn't seem to generate enough torque anymore. So basically NoA nag is constant before any lane change. If I move my hand up to 8 OC, it becomes uncomfortable to hold it there after a while. Staying at 7 OC but forcing more torque is also not comfortable.

1.5lb ankle weight time?


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## Guy Weathersby (Jun 22, 2016)

A YouTuber recommended putting your elbow on the center console and hand on the lower part of the wheel, this works well for me.


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## nonStopSwagger (May 7, 2018)

Guy Weathersby said:


> A YouTuber recommended putting your elbow on the center console and hand on the lower part of the wheel, this works well for me.


Thanks Guy, I'll give it a go.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

I have pretty much given up on NOA except in the lightest traffic. 

1. "no confirmation' requires more confirmation than actually confirming with your blinker. Force on wheel disengages autosteer at least 25% of the time. 
2. Takes too bloody long to make a lane change AFTER you've tugged the wheel to confirm. Even the most distant traffic will pass you. 
3. Changing lanes yourself (via signal) keeps you more alert to traffic. 
4. SERIOUS slow down when existing a ramp....500 yards before ON THE RAMP......almost resulting in me getting rear-ended more than once. 

It's good and it's getting there, but it's not ready for any kind of traffic yet.


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## tivoboy (Mar 24, 2017)

Needsdecaf said:


> I have pretty much given up on NOA except in the lightest traffic.
> 
> 1. "no confirmation' requires more confirmation than actually confirming with your blinker. Force on wheel disengages autosteer at least 25% of the time.
> 2. Takes too bloody long to make a lane change AFTER you've tugged the wheel to confirm. Even the most distant traffic will pass you.
> ...


Yep that pretty much sums it up nicely.


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## Long Ranger (Jun 1, 2018)

Needsdecaf said:


> I have pretty much given up on NOA except in the lightest traffic.
> 
> 1. "no confirmation' requires more confirmation than actually confirming with your blinker. Force on wheel disengages autosteer at least 25% of the time.
> 2. Takes too bloody long to make a lane change AFTER you've tugged the wheel to confirm. Even the most distant traffic will pass you.
> ...


I definitely agree that it's not ready for much traffic at all, and it still has a long ways to go. All valid points above (although I haven't had much issue with 1 or 4), but I'm a bit surprised that so much of the criticism I've seen is directed at what I'd call the "execution of lane changes".

To me, the big issue that makes it nearly unusable is the poor "decision making on lane changes". I find that about 90% of the suggested lane changes are terrible decisions, trying to merge into cars, passing on the right instead of the left, etc. Setting speed-based lane changes to Mild helps, but it still makes terrible suggestions. And if I tap on the screen to delay, the car really doesn't like that answer. It comes right back with the same prompt in a fraction of a second.

Yesterday, I counted 18 consecutive delay presses before it finally gave up on its insistence to get in the right lane 4.5 miles before my exit. That's the stuff that gets me to shut it off despite my efforts to test it out.


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## Jay79 (Aug 18, 2018)

Its not what we hoped for but we all know it will get better with more data sent back to Tesla. For sure not ready for moderate to heavy traffic yet, decision making is terrible and causes me to keep cancelling the lane changes.


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## SalisburySam (Jun 6, 2018)

For me, I’ve seen no advantage and some disadvantages to the no-confirmation lane change. I’ve found initiating lane changes with the turn signal very easy, mostly intuitive, and works far better. Yeah, I’ve turned off the no-confirm “feature.” While using it, I did submit a bug report each time it did something I found unsafe or otherwise problematic. But I’ve had enough guinea-pigging on this item.


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## Ken Voss (Feb 2, 2017)

Anyone notice that NoA is overly aggressive in lane changing? Often I find that it changes lanes for no apparent reason, for example I can be say 20 miles from my exit with light traffic in the Number 1 lane (far left) cruising at 75MPH with no one in front or behind me when for no reason it decides to move one lane to the right, OK fine. But then 30 seconds later it moves back into the Number 1 lane, whats up with that? Under the conditions I am describing it is not trying to pass slow traffic and it is not trying to let someone behind me pass, there is no logical reason for this behavior.

I prefer Mad Max mode but have tried all modes and it behaves the same way in every mode. Clearly the mode is about how quickly it executes a lane change not about how frequently it does it.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Ken Voss said:


> I prefer Mad Max mode but have tried all modes and it behaves the same way in every mode. Clearly the mode is about how quickly it executes a lane change not about how frequently it does it.


I honestly think it is just the opposite. Not how quickly it changes but how frequently. Turn that down off of Mad Max one setting and I think you'll have a better experience. page 76 of the current owners manual:

"Speed Based Lane Changes: Navigate on Autopilot is designed to perform both routebased and speed-based lane changes. Routebased lane changes are designed to keep you on your navigation route (for example, moving you into an adjacent lane to prepare for an upcoming off-ramp) whereas speed-based lane changes are designed to maintain a driving speed (not to exceed your cruising speed) that allows you to minimize the time it takes to reach your destination (for example, moving into an adjacent lane to pass a vehicle in front of you). Speed-based lanes changes are optional. You can use this setting to disable speed-based lane changes or to specify how aggressively you want Navigate on Autopilot to change lanes to achieve the set cruising speed. *The MILD setting is more conservative about lane changes and may result in a slightly longer driving time whereas MAD MAX is designed to allow you to reach your destination in the shortest driving time possible, but will only change lanes when safe to do so. "*


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## tivoboy (Mar 24, 2017)

Ken Voss said:


> Anyone notice that NoA is overly aggressive in lane changing? Often I find that it changes lanes for no apparent reason, for example I can be say 20 miles from my exit with light traffic in the Number 1 lane (far left) cruising at 75MPH with no one in front or behind me when for no reason it decides to move one lane to the right, OK fine. But then 30 seconds later it moves back into the Number 1 lane, whats up with that? Under the conditions I am describing it is not trying to pass slow traffic and it is not trying to let someone behind me pass, there is no logical reason for this behavior.
> 
> I prefer Mad Max mode but have tried all modes and it behaves the same way in every mode. Clearly the mode is about how quickly it executes a lane change not about how frequently it does it.


Ive noticed lately that it doesn't want to stay in the left lane. That could be a positive from a faster driver standpoint but also could be just to create more scenarios to test the frequent lane change algorithm.

Also it doesn't really want to move around a slightly slower car in front to get around them the threshold between my set speed and the car in front speed seems to allow 2-4 mph difference before it wants to try and move.


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## Phillyasian (Sep 19, 2017)

That's because the left lane is SUPPOSED to be for passing only.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

Ken Voss said:


> Often I find that it changes lanes for no apparent reason, for example I can be say 20 miles from my exit with light traffic in the Number 1 lane (far left) cruising at 75MPH with no one in front or behind me when for no reason it decides to move one lane to the right,





tivoboy said:


> Ive noticed lately that it doesn't want to stay in the left lane. That could be a positive from a faster driver standpoint but also could be just to create more scenarios to test the frequent lane change algorithm.
> .





Phillyasian said:


> That's because the left lane is SUPPOSED to be for passing only.


This.


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## tivoboy (Mar 24, 2017)

Needsdecaf said:


> This.


Well here's the deal. Here in the Bay Area I drive about 82-85 on 280 and sometimes near that on 101. AP will let it go but lately tried to shift OUT of the left lane into slower cars that it just pukes on and DOESNT make the move or moves over and the quickly has to move back. So it's not very long range or longer horizon minded


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## nonStopSwagger (May 7, 2018)

CR posted a review of NoA. They give it a big thumbs down, compare it to supervising a kid who is driving your car. "Its just easier and less stressful to drive yourself".

I've only really used it on 1 major trip recently, actually found it enjoyable (shout out to @Guy Weathersby for the hand position on the wheel that works). Not sure if my wife would agree.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

nonStopSwagger said:


> CR posted a review of NoA. They give it a big thumbs down, compare it to supervising a kid who is driving your car.


Yeah, that's pretty much what it's like.


> "Its just easier and less stressful to drive yourself".


And like you, I disagree with this conclusion. After using it a few times, you develop a feel for what situations it handles well, which ones you should supervise, and which ones call on you to just take over. Then it becomes much easier to relax and allow it to handle the majority of highway driving.


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## Long Ranger (Jun 1, 2018)

nonStopSwagger said:


> CR posted a review of NoA.


I'd say that the review is specifically of the no confirmation lane change feature of NOA, and personally, I agree with their conclusions. I like experimenting with no confirmation lane changes, but I turn it off when I want a stress-free drive.


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## nonStopSwagger (May 7, 2018)

Its probably a good idea if Tesla hold off releasing any more "FSD" stuff until the software for HW 3 is running well, and older cars are upgraded. The media will have a field day when summon is released in a few weeks, unless it drives like a human.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

nonStopSwagger said:


> Its probably a good idea if Tesla hold off releasing any more "FSD" stuff until the software for HW 3 is running well, and older cars are upgraded. The media will have a field day when summon is released in a few weeks, unless it drives like a human.


I tend to agree, but what none of the writers or media will acknowledge is that this is all "Beta" - no one has to use it, it isn't perfect, it has come a lONG way, it is better than anyone else can do, and it is improving.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

GDN said:


> I tend to agree, but what none of the writers or media will acknowledge is that this is all "Beta"


All the more reason for CR to report that it is NOT appropriate for general use.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

NOA simply is not good in moderate to heavy traffic. I concur with their observations, as I have experienced them all while driving with NOA. I look forward to the day where it’s useful but as of now, it’s no use to me. The required pressure on the wheel, at least on my car, is way too great. It then takes too long to signal, and then to change lanes. It will often cut a car off well after it actually had an opportunity to change lanes. It often requests a lane change while there is actually a car in the blind spot. It will sometimes change to the left lane for no reason. 

Even in light traffic, I don’t find it all that useful. It’s not good at smoothly moving around the cars. It usually waits too long.


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## gaM3changer (Dec 24, 2018)

At this point, I've given up on no confirm lane changes. I drive 100 miles (95% on NOA) a day in Socal and constantly battle the car wanting to needlessly change lanes. It will change lanes just to change right back (within 30 secs) when no other cars are around. Also, it'll want to make it's way across 5 lanes of traffic to the left even though it knows that it needs to take a transition on the right within 0.5 mile ahead. 

Starting this past Monday, I switched back to manual confirm and find it less stressful. I'm a big believer in autopilot (over 90% of my total miles are with some form of AP), but this feature is not ready for primetime, at least not in LA traffic.


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

Needsdecaf said:


> NOA simply is not good in moderate to heavy traffic. I concur with their observations, as I have experienced them all while driving with NOA. I look forward to the day where it's useful but as of now, it's no use to me. The required pressure on the wheel, at least on my car, is way too great. It then takes too long to signal, and then to change lanes. It will often cut a car off well after it actually had an opportunity to change lanes. It often requests a lane change while there is actually a car in the blind spot. It will sometimes change to the left lane for no reason.
> 
> Even in light traffic, I don't find it all that useful. It's not good at smoothly moving around the cars. It usually waits too long.


Great observations. I have observed phantom braking when on NOA couple of times when a car is merging from an on ramp. The car just freaks out by slowing downfrom say 60 miles to 50 miles and I find that dangerous. Also if the car sees stripes on the road when it approaches an exit, it also freaks out. But having said this I have never observed NOA cutting any car off ever or requesting a lane change when a car is in the blind spot. I have seen it request lane changes when it is not required though and I usually cancel it.

I cant recall if tesla recommends to use NOA only on freeways or also during city driving? In city driving TACC is very impressive. I have used it over 10-15 miles bumper to bumper traffic and I feel very safe just using TACC because it operates exactly like a human driver.


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

gaM3changer said:


> At this point, I've given up on no confirm lane changes. I drive 100 miles (95% on NOA) a day in Socal and constantly battle the car wanting to needlessly change lanes. It will change lanes just to change right back (within 30 secs) when no other cars are around. Also, it'll want to make it's way across 5 lanes of traffic to the left even though it knows that it needs to take a transition on the right within 0.5 mile ahead.
> 
> Starting this past Monday, I switched back to manual confirm and find it less stressful. I'm a big believer in autopilot (over 90% of my total miles are with some form of AP), but this feature is not ready for primetime, at least not in LA traffic.


I have AP, not EAP or FSD, so I don't have NOA (a lot of acronyms!). But I'm curious--does the aggressiveness setting (Mad Max, etc.) affect the behavior you describe?


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

DocScott said:


> I have AP, not EAP or FSD, so I don't have NOA (a lot of acronyms!). But I'm curious--does the aggressiveness setting (Mad Max, etc.) affect the behavior you describe?


the aggressiveness settings are exactly for this.

I generally don't use NoA because my normal commute is too congested to have it comfortably make lane changes, but when I do, it is set to the middle setting, and it does not over do the lane changes, but is actually pretty close to what I would naturally do. It generally sticks to the center lane, uses the left to pass when the center slows (and the left is moving/clear) and only gets into the right when getting ready to exit.


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## gaM3changer (Dec 24, 2018)

DocScott said:


> I have AP, not EAP or FSD, so I don't have NOA (a lot of acronyms!). But I'm curious--does the aggressiveness setting (Mad Max, etc.) affect the behavior you describe?


Nope, those settings do not affect the behavior. I've tried adjusting them all and even turned off, the lane change behavior stayed the same. This doesn't seem to be a speed based lane change issue. I could be in the fastest moving lane and the car will want to move over to a slower lane, just to move right back a few seconds later. It might be a bug in the algorithm that has to take into account the HOV lane, but it also affects other lanes, too.


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## Mr. Spacely (Feb 28, 2019)

I use following distance of 1 car length and Mad Max Mode. That setting combination works best because the decisions are decisive and faster. In heavy traffic I often have to take over...


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## Long Ranger (Jun 1, 2018)

gaM3changer said:


> It might be a bug in the algorithm that has to take into account the HOV lane, but it also affects other lanes, too.


Do you have it set to use HOV lanes? If so maybe it's trying to get over to the HOV lane or something related to that. I don't have the HOV option enabled and I stopped seeing needless lane changes once I set the speed based option to Min. Changing the speed based option made a big difference to me. But I still don't care much for the no-confirmation lane change feature in its current state because it isn't good at finding gaps in traffic.


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## gaM3changer (Dec 24, 2018)

Long Ranger said:


> Do you have it set to use HOV lanes? If so maybe it's trying to get over to the HOV lane or something related to that. I don't have the HOV option enabled and I stopped seeing needless lane changes once I set the speed based option to Min. Changing the speed based option made a big difference to me. But I still don't care much for the no-confirmation lane change feature in its current state because it isn't good at finding gaps in traffic.


I do have it set to use HOV. It will want to leave the HOV lane just to come right back in. It doesn't happen everywhere, but it's often enough to be annoying.


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## evannole (Jun 18, 2018)

casey morgan said:


> I use following distance of 1 car length and Mad Max Mode. That setting combination works best because the decisions are decisive and faster. In heavy traffic I often have to take over...


I have given up on NOA for now. Too many bad or unnecessary lane change suggestions.

Nice profile pic at the Don CeSar!


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## webdriverguy (May 25, 2017)

evannole said:


> I have given up on NOA for now. Too many bad or unnecessary lane change suggestions.
> 
> Nice profile pic at the Don CeSar!


I might try the mad max with one car following length. The unnecessary lane changes bug me in average mode. But I have read posts about it has got better in 16.2 so going to try it out.


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## Bokonon (Apr 13, 2017)

Bokonon said:


> The car's map data determines the roads where Navigate on Autopilot can be active, and at the moment (to the best of my knowledge), those roads include some (but not all) major, divided highways.


Just a quick PSA... If you find NoA enabled on a *non-divided *highway (as just happened to me at the easternmost end of NH-101), do yourself a favor and disable it, and possibly file a bug report.

On undivided highways, NoA doesn't always seem to distinguish between oncoming lanes and the lanes that are traveling in your direction, and may attempt to change into the oncoming lane if the conditions are right. This behavior is obviously not desirable.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

Anyone else finding NOA is now almost DOA? I've tried using it with the newest software and it goes through periods where it doesn't do ANYTHING. Just allows me to sit behind a vehicle, 10, sometimes 15 MPH below my target speed. Or I will be passing traffic in the left lane, get clear, and it will just sit there for 1, 2, 3 miles or more. 

I have it set on Mad Max.

Then other times, it will all of a sudden start working normally. But it's default is to be MIA.


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## Mr. Spacely (Feb 28, 2019)

Needsdecaf said:


> Anyone else finding NOA is now almost DOA? I've tried using it with the newest software and it goes through periods where it doesn't do ANYTHING. Just allows me to sit behind a vehicle, 10, sometimes 15 MPH below my target speed. Or I will be passing traffic in the left lane, get clear, and it will just sit there for 1, 2, 3 miles or more.
> 
> I have it set on Mad Max.
> 
> Then other times, it will all of a sudden start working normally. But it's default is to be MIA.


Nope. Mine still works great...


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## Rye3 (Jun 22, 2018)

Needsdecaf said:


> Anyone else finding NOA is now almost DOA? I've tried using it with the newest software and it goes through periods where it doesn't do ANYTHING. Just allows me to sit behind a vehicle, 10, sometimes 15 MPH below my target speed. Or I will be passing traffic in the left lane, get clear, and it will just sit there for 1, 2, 3 miles or more.
> 
> I have it set on Mad Max.
> 
> Then other times, it will all of a sudden start working normally. But it's default is to be MIA.


I experience this as well. It's almost like the first time I intervene on a drive it just stops working. Even in mad max mode it does this.


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

gaM3changer said:


> I do have it set to use HOV. It will want to leave the HOV lane just to come right back in. It doesn't happen everywhere, but it's often enough to be annoying.


Could be a map error. Personally I think map errors are a major problem with Tesla moving forward on FSD.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

M3OC Rules said:


> Could be a map error. Personally I think map errors are a major problem with Tesla moving forward on FSD.


And tolls. Mine always wants me to take the cash lanes on the BW8 toll road around Houston. There is no option for knowing whether you have cash or a pass. I'm assuming that there will be in the future.


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