# Musk media ... no way



## bwilson4web (Mar 4, 2019)

I've seen two YouTubes suggesting Elon may start his own social media but this makes no sense:

Tesla account forum was (is?) shutdown
Trump started two social media platforms and both have failed
What a huge time waste
It would be cheaper and more effective to organize a 'press office.' A couple of English majors and a lawyer with e-mail accounts and phone numbers and the problem is solved. Just pass anything by Elon and problem solved. The regular and irregular media will pickup the press releases and amplify.

Bob Wilson


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

You’re misunderstanding the “problem”. Elon tweeted about free speech and wants a platform without “censorship” where misinformation isn’t taken down.


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

I replied to him that there isn’t any such thing as internet free speech because anonymity creates a confrontational atmosphere, which leads to factioning/grouping, and eventually a purge of people who don’t agree with one side or the other.


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## bwilson4web (Mar 4, 2019)

iChris93 said:


> You're misunderstanding the "problem". Elon tweeted about free speech and wants a platform without "censorship" where misinformation isn't taken down.


IMHO, Elon wants (or needs) 'press releases'. Do the right thing and recreate a press office with some English majors and a lawyer. The lawyer makes sure the press releases do not attempt to establish policy. But Elon had let the Tesla account 'forum' wither on the vine which is what the 'Orange One' did with two, failed social media attempts.

Unmoderated, a forum becomes a pile of defication that attracts SPAM, scam, and robot propaganda. I fully appreciate our moderators who keep the good forums working. It is not an easy or happy job, @garsh right?

There are plenty of 'free fire' forums already. For example, the sex forums that often serve as honey pots to connect sex abusers with law enforcement.

Bob Wilson


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

bwilson4web said:


> IMHO, Elon wants (or needs) 'press releases'. Do the right thing and recreate a press office with some English majors and a lawyer. The lawyer makes sure the press releases do not attempt to establish policy. But Elon had let the Tesla account 'forum' wither on the vine which is what the 'Orange One' did with two, failed social media attempts.
> 
> Unmoderated, a forum becomes a pile of defication that attracts SPAM, scam, and robot propaganda. I fully appreciate our moderators who keep the good forums working. It is not an easy or happy job, @garsh right?
> 
> ...


I'm not in disagreement with you, but that would be further from what Elon wants. He wants his word out there. Not to be fluffed through a PR process.


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## msjulie (Feb 6, 2018)

I wonder what word he wants out there - he is already pretty vocal on Twitter.

Others have made comment in other threads on this but sometimes some words aren't a good look on him; I will admit my opinion of him has altered over the years. Perhaps not being the underdog has been a loss.


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

msjulie said:


> Others have made comment in other threads on this but sometimes some words aren't a good look on him; I will admit my opinion of him has altered over the years. Perhaps not being the underdog has been a loss.


I personally think he's changed, and not for the better. A lot of his ambitious dreams from a few years ago have been watered down and eliminated. Even Tesla seems to be shifting focus from the "EV's for everyone" dream back to high end luxury only, abandoning the "for all" part to other automakers (I don't think the $25k Tesla will ever exist, especially now that the Model 3 is pushing toward the price point the Model S used to occupy) so that the wealthy people who _used to shun him and his ideas _can get a boost in their investment portfolio. And he's also become much more active in less futuristic things like politics, which is never good.

I mean, he has the right to change himself, his life, and his focus. It's just concerning that he's becoming yet another story of fame changing a person for the worse, embracing "new friends" who didn't care about him or his ideas before, and not even being aware of it.


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## TomT (Apr 1, 2019)

iChris93 said:


> You're misunderstanding the "problem". Elon tweeted about free speech and wants a platform without "censorship" where misinformation isn't taken down.


And I, for one, DON'T want a platform with no moderation at all that would allow QAnon mistruths and the like to flourish!


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Musk is a libertarian that wants to look like a liberal, but acts like a conservative.


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

TomT said:


> And I, for one, DON'T want a platform with no moderation at all that would allow QAnon mistruths and the like to flourish!


No offense to you in particular, but this kind of off the cuff response is exactly what I illustrated above about internet platform factioning and alignment toward/against one group or another. I'm not saying that your statement is right or wrong; I'm merely pointing out that it was stated in a manner of "I don't want to see anything from this particular group". It's not something I'm singling you out for - it's _extremely_ common to the point where it's become the norm, to have someone quickly reply that they don't want to see things from one particular group on a particular platform.

One particular group could be QAnon, or neo-nazis, or Republicans, or Democrats, it doesn't matter. My entire point is that's what factioning is, once a platform falls under the control of one belief system, and anything from competing belief systems are removed, blocked, cancelled, etc, and then that platform becomes the exclusive domain of that belief system. Without that happening you have chaos. But in any case, this is why true free speech can't exist on an internet platform.


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## bwilson4web (Mar 4, 2019)

Unmoderated, it is all shouting, little reading, and no dialogue. Moderation encourages focus by chasing off the noise machines.

Bob Wilson


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

JasonF said:


> No offense to you in particular, but this kind of off the cuff response is exactly what I illustrated above about internet platform factioning and alignment toward/against one group or another. I'm not saying that your statement is right or wrong; I'm merely pointing out that it was stated in a manner of "I don't want to see anything from this particular group". It's not something I'm singling you out for - it's _extremely_ common to the point where it's become the norm, to have someone quickly reply that they don't want to see things from one particular group on a particular platform.
> 
> One particular group could be QAnon, or neo-nazis, or Republicans, or Democrats, it doesn't matter. My entire point is that's what factioning is, once a platform falls under the control of one belief system, and anything from competing belief systems are removed, blocked, cancelled, etc, and then that platform becomes the exclusive domain of that belief system. Without that happening you have chaos. But in any case, this is why true free speech can't exist on an internet platform.


So we gonna give an open platform for Al Qaeda too? Should we air ANY propaganda by "the other side" just because they're the other side and we can feel "woke"? I get what you're saying, but when a particular group's only talking points is "we hate this, and this, and this, and ..." then they don't deserve a platform. Or at the very least, go to one with people that have the same mindset as you. Oh wait, they DID and they quickly realized that's not what they want. All they want is to be divisive and you can't do that when you're all on the same page.


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

shareef777 said:


> Musk is a libertarian


This is typical for people who see government (or maybe now social media?) as their biggest oppressor.


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

iChris93 said:


> This is typical for people who see government (or maybe now social media?) as their biggest oppressor.


Yeah, biggest issue is people not understanding that "not getting what you want" isn't the same as being oppressed.


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## TomT (Apr 1, 2019)

JasonF said:


> I'm not saying that your statement is right or wrong; I'm merely pointing out that it was stated in a manner of "I don't want to see anything from this particular group".


No, I am saying that I don't want lies or mistruths from ANY person or group...


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

shareef777 said:


> So we gonna give an open platform for Al Qaeda too?


Of course not. I'm illustrating why there _can't_ be free speech on an internet platform.



TomT said:


> No, I am saying that I don't want lies or mistruths from ANY person or group...


But that's not free speech, either. See above.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying we _need_ a pure free speech platform, I'm saying there _can't be one_. Once you say "we have free speech except we don't allow xyz", it's no longer free speech. Inevitably it (meaning the management) has to either take a position on inflammatory subjects and decide what's allowed, or take no side and disallow all of those subjects - but that's not free speech either.

FYI, there are even limits to free speech in a completely free country. You can't yell 'Fire' in a crowded place, you can't talk about building bombs in an airport, and you can't threaten the lives of government officials even if you're joking. In every case, the absolute best we can do is limited free speech within reason.

Philosophical stuff aside, I think what Elon Musk wants is a place where smart people can gather and express themselves freely without worrying about running afoul of politics. Unfortunately that dream can never be a reality, because these days, any public internet platform can't get away from being either be "us" or "them. Neutrality is no longer a thing, unless he's willing to ban any political discussion, and then it's a cultivated platform and no longer free speech.


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## bwilson4web (Mar 4, 2019)

<AHEM> PriusChat is pretty sane. Political nonsense has its own pig pen where such nonsense is pillow fought.

Bob Wilson


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## Mosess (Sep 13, 2018)

Elon Musk seems to have realized that allowing petty armchair warriors to decide whose free speech is allowed or blocked is a terrible idea. 
just as the internet in general can now, realistically, be viewed as a “utility service” due to how deeply integrated it has become in our tech driven society, just so can I make the argument that certain social media sites have become the digital equivalent of the town square or community social hall. As such, the company operating that town square has no right to refuse any particular group or faction from using that space to advertise its ideas in as long as it remains peaceful and civil. 

Twitter and YouTube have been blocking people from expressing viewpoints that go contrary to certain political groupthink or the pharmaceutically minded medical establishment and this is the equivalent of a city banning all political opposition groups from ever using any of its public spaces for rallies or debates. 

If Musk wants to do something constructive about this and has a better idea for it than the current ones do, it will serve to better our society as a whole and that would be a good thing. If all social media has to be so managed that you never come across any disruptive or dissenting opinions, some even a little offensive, perhaps you need a better idea for how to cope with the disagreeable parts of life for life is full of them anyway.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Just a reminder that this particular forum does not permit political discussions.

Everyone is doing a good job of avoiding it so far. It just seemed like a good time to remind members of this, in case somebody new to the forum doesn't realize that and attempts to take this thread in such a direction.


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## bwilson4web (Mar 4, 2019)

Mosess said:


> Twitter and YouTube have been blocking . . .


It is a question of signal-to-noise ratio. As long as they continue to carry content I'm interested in, my eyes are there. When the noise becomes too high and I can't turn up the squelch, I'm outta there.

Your 'signal' is easily my 'noise' so I have no problem with moderation. Internet bullies have killed more communities than they've made.

Bob Wilson


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## shareef777 (Mar 10, 2019)

Mosess said:


> Twitter and YouTube have been blocking people from expressing viewpoints that go contrary to certain political groupthink or the pharmaceutically minded medical establishment and this is the equivalent of a city banning all political opposition groups from ever using any of its public spaces for rallies or debates.


That's exactly what's NOT happening on social media platforms. Unless you're talking about the groups that walk into a public space to start fights or stoke violence, then yeah, they'd get banned on social media, public spaces, and even at a chuck e cheese. I've seen plenty of people walk into our local village hall and start screaming about body snatchers, they don't get to stay as long as they'd like there either.

My own experience with Tesla's own forums (which might explain why they died out). I've made a couple posts griping about FSD and they got deleted (didn't like it, but knew it's a private business and they can do as they wish). Didn't make a fuss and found this great place instead. Beauty of the internet. You don't like the "town" you're in, you can move to a number of other ones without literally moving an inch 😀


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## Mosess (Sep 13, 2018)

bwilson4web said:


> It is a question of signal-to-noise ratio. As long as they continue to carry content I'm interested in, my eyes are there. When the noise becomes too high and I can't turn up the squelch, I'm outta there.
> 
> Your 'signal' is easily my 'noise' so I have no problem with moderation. Internet bullies have killed more communities than they've made.
> 
> Bob Wilson


Elon is obviously facing a lot of pressure from multiple sides of these discussions and the position he has taken towards the current administration seems very obviously to be the cause for the continuing starship delays by the various govt agencies in charge of that and this is another reason he is seeking to remedy the ways in which freedom of expression has been restricted lately by coordinated action across multiple popular platforms.

This here is, certainly, not the platform to hold debates or arguments on free speech. But if you so dislike Elons efforts in this regard, perhaps you could consider no longer supporting any of his business ventures as a customer.


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## bwilson4web (Mar 4, 2019)

Mosess said:


> . . . But if you so dislike Elons efforts in this regard, perhaps you could consider no longer supporting any of his business ventures as a customer.


Good point. I'll sell some of my TSLA stock bought at split-adjusted $60. That'll show him!

Using Elon time, right after the next stock split.

Bob Wilson


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