# V9 Features: Autosteer Stoplight Warning



## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

I've just gone out and tried 8.3 on a quiet street with a few traffic lights and little traffic.
On TACC I didn't notice anything at all as coming up to lights (of green, yellow or red).
On Autosteer, I didn't get any warnings, but it did some funky short braking coming up to one red light (still no strewn or audible warning) and maybe it was picking up something else that caused the braking.
I'll post a video of it when I get back home and link it here.

ETA video:





(and for all of you that say your wipers don't swipe often enough, this is how my car has ALWAYS been in light sprinklers. Crazy)


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## aronth5 (Dec 7, 2016)

I think what the "Auto Steer Stop Light Warning" feature does what is really important is it provides Tesla with the capability for the neural network to check whether the car's cameras picked up an intersection light for every intersection in their map database. That would give them at least an accurate percentage of how many times the camera saw a light. They can then compare what the camera thought the light was (red/green) and compare that to what the driver actually did. Obviously they could already be doing this but this raises the awareness to the owners even higher. Regulators are going to insist of having this type of information. One wonders how many 9's will be needed as in 99.999..... before Tesla will consider releasing it. 

What would be very nice would be for the display to pop up the light and what color it records in real time. Hopefully they will do the same idea for Stop Signs. As soon as they recognize a Stop Sign show it in the display.


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## ADK46 (Aug 4, 2018)

I was just imagining the communications you'd receive from a passenger you asked to warn you about traffic lights, and about the challenge that person would face.

[Silence]
Be careful
Slow down
Better hit the brakes!
Look out!!
Look out!!!
Stop!!!!
[Slams on the brakes for you]

The passenger must learn of the driver's normal practice in order to judge situations. The driver must calibrate to the passenger's tone of voice, the degree of urgency, hes sense of certainty and reliability of the situational analysis.

I fear there is a tendency to offer up only binary advice for systems like this (silence or Stop!!!), when the goal should be to more closely emulate human communication. We're thinking now of the advice being delivered to a human, but if the car is driving itself, it also needs good advice to avoid abrupt actions that will _cause_ accidents.

I'm beginning to think that self-driving cars need to have a blue light or some other indication serving the same function as an "Acme Driving School" sign.


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## TrevP (Oct 20, 2015)

I think this is one of the features they decided to "break out" of the FSD end-game of "traffic light recognition". It's not like FSD will be dropped into our laps a finished product in one fell swoop, it's going to be delivered piecemeal and this is just the first of the pieces even though it may not be exactly tied to you having explicitly purchased FSD.
This single feature could make it into safety and security so everyone benefits.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

No matter what package it belongs to, I could not tell it had any reaction to traffic lights. No audio alert, no visual alert, nothing coming up to any light that was green, yellow or red.
I tried this under all the driving iterations. Manual, TACC, and Autosteer. 
Best I got was some twitchy pumping of the regen ‘brakes’ coming up to a green light in autosteer (with nothing else that should have triggered it to slow down).


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## M3OC Rules (Nov 18, 2016)

TrevP said:


> I think this is one of the features they decided to "break out" of the FSD end-game of "traffic light recognition". It's not like FSD will be dropped into our laps a finished product in one fell swoop, it's going to be delivered piecemeal and this is just the first of the pieces even though it may not be exactly tied to you having explicitly purchased FSD.
> This single feature could make it into safety and security so everyone benefits.


I agree. One thing I wonder is if this means it might be a long time before they start upgrading people from hw2.5 to hw3. If they keep developing these features for hw2.5 they can delay upgrading people.


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## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

There are supposed to be visual and audio notifications.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/24/...t-warning-autopilot-software-update-red-light


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

airj1012 said:


> There are supposed to be visual and audio notifications.
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/24/...t-warning-autopilot-software-update-red-light


that article appears to be written solely on the release note. I can tell you, approaching a red light at 30MPH gives you no warning (audible or visual) within 100yards of the light.


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## Nautilus (Oct 10, 2018)

ADK46 said:


> I was just imagining the communications you'd receive from a passenger you asked to warn you about traffic lights, and about the challenge that person would face.
> 
> [Silence]
> Be careful
> ...


This gave me a flashback (and not the good kind) of teaching my son to drive....


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## evannole (Jun 18, 2018)

MelindaV said:


> that article appears to be written solely on the release note. I can tell you, approaching a red light at 30MPH gives you no warning (audible or visual) within 100yards of the light.


100 yards is 300 feet. Given that the 60 MPH-0 stopping distance is 133 feet, 30 MPH at 300 feet likely won't be enough to set the system off. I don't have this feature yet, but I imagine that setting it off deliberately in order to test it would require a closer call than most responsible drivers would be comfortable with.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

MelindaV said:


> that article appears to be written solely on the release note. I can tell you, approaching a red light at 30MPH gives you no warning (audible or visual) within 100yards of the light.


I concur. I was using autosteer on a two-lane highway (while following another car). As we approached a red light, I didn't notice any sort of alert from the car. No change on the display, and definitely nothing audible. I had this happen twice.

Perhaps having a car in front negates the warning? Or maybe there's some setting involved - I didn't bother looking at the Autopilot settings to see if there was anything new.


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## SoFlaModel3 (Apr 15, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> that article appears to be written solely on the release note. I can tell you, approaching a red light at 30MPH gives you no warning (audible or visual) within 100yards of the light.





garsh said:


> I concur. I was using autosteer on a two-lane highway (while following another car). As we approached a red light, I didn't notice any sort of alert from the car. No change on the display, and definitely nothing audible. I had this happen twice.
> 
> Perhaps having a car in front negates the warning? Or maybe there's some setting involved - I didn't bother looking at the Autopilot settings to see if there was anything new.


I imagine you can't have a car in front of you because if the car is already slowing there is no need for the alert. Would be great to have official word or a demo of what it should do though!


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## airj1012 (Jan 29, 2019)

Here are some sources






https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-autopilot-autosteer-stop-light-warning/


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2019)

airj1012 said:


> Here are some sources
> 
> https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-autopilot-autosteer-stop-light-warning/


Interesting image in your link that sources tesla official with the little stop light icon in the upper corner.

Haven't seen any forum users posting this in their cars yet?


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

airj1012 said:


> Here are some sources
> 
> 
> 
> ...


in that video it comes to a stop because it was using NoA exiting a freeway. it has done that since NoA was introduced.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

evannole said:


> 100 yards is 300 feet. Given that the 60 MPH-0 stopping distance is 133 feet, 30 MPH at 300 feet likely won't be enough to set the system off. I don't have this feature yet, but I imagine that setting it off deliberately in order to test it would require a closer call than most responsible drivers would be comfortable with.


the 60MPH stopping distance you listed is the emergency braking distance. i would expect their alert for someone about to run a light would not wait until the physically last moment to be able to come to a screaming stop.


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## Ct200h (Jun 22, 2017)

Looking at the image again and it appears that is an image during an Autopark event , not during autopilot.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2019)

Ct200h said:


> Looking at the image again and it appears that is an image during an Autopark event , not during autopilot.


Thanks for clarifying. I've not ever used auto park to know that's what it looked like. Explains why no one here as posted anything similar


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## evannole (Jun 18, 2018)

MelindaV said:


> the 60MPH stopping distance you listed is the emergency braking distance. i would expect their alert for someone about to run a light would not wait until the physically last moment to be able to come to a screaming stop.


Sure, I don't disagree. The warning is probably going to come before a panic stop is necessary. However, 30 mph / 3600 seconds in an hour = 0.00833 miles per second. 5280 feet in a mile x 0.00833 miles per second = 44 feet per second. 100 yards = 300 feet. 300 feet / 44 feet per second = 6.81 seconds.

I rather doubt that the system would warn you that you're about to run a red light 6.81 seconds before you might do so, especially at 30 mph.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2019)

evannole said:


> Sure, I don't disagree. The warning is probably going to come before a panic stop is necessary. However, 30 mph / 3600 seconds in an hour = 0.00833 miles per second. 5280 feet in a mile x 0.00833 miles per second = 44 feet per second. 100 yards = 300 feet. 300 feet / 44 feet per second = 6.81 seconds.
> 
> I rather doubt that the system would warn you that you're about to run a red light 6.81 seconds before you might do so, especially at 30 mph.


One might need that 6.81 seconds if they are busy reading elons tweet's and not paying attention 😉


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

evannole said:


> Sure, I don't disagree. The warning is probably going to come before a panic stop is necessary. However, 30 mph / 3600 seconds in an hour = 0.00833 miles per second. 5280 feet in a mile x 0.00833 miles per second = 44 feet per second. 100 yards = 300 feet. 300 feet / 44 feet per second = 6.81 seconds.
> 
> I rather doubt that the system would warn you that you're about to run a red light 6.81 seconds before you might do so, especially at 30 mph.


looking at the scale on google.maps, it my be closer to 150ft, but whatever the actual distance was, I disengaged AP and manually braked a couple car lengths beyond where I typically would coming up to a red light.


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## aronth5 (Dec 7, 2016)

MelindaV said:


> looking at the scale on google.maps, it my be closer to 150ft, but whatever the actual distance was, I disengaged AP and manually braked a couple car lengths beyond where I typically would coming up to a red light.
> View attachment 23866


Based on the release notes "autosteer" must be engaged for this feature to work so when you disengaged AP no warning would appear. Until we get more detail release notes (doubtful) we're going to need someone to run a red light safely with no police or other cars nearby to know if and how this actually works.
.


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## Bernard (Aug 3, 2017)

MelindaV said:


> I've just gone out and tried 8.3 on a quiet street with a few traffic lights and little traffic.
> On TACC I didn't notice anything at all as coming up to lights (of green, yellow or red).
> On Autosteer, I didn't get any warnings, but it did some funky short braking coming up to one red light (still no strewn or audible warning) and maybe it was picking up something else that caused the braking.
> I'll post a video of it when I get back home and link it here.
> ...


I'll take it (your crazy wipers setup ;-) any time over wipers that I have to actuate by hand all the time, because they don't seem to realize that fog condensing on the windshield is in fact water and does reduce visibility and should be treated like any other water accumulation on the windshield... ;-)
Actually, I am disappointed that Tesla has not yet added a sensitivity control to the wipers' interface.


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## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

aronth5 said:


> I think what the "Auto Steer Stop Light Warning" feature does what is really important is it provides Tesla with the capability for the neural network to check whether the car's cameras picked up an intersection light for every intersection in their map database. That would give them at least an accurate percentage of how many times the camera saw a light. They can then compare what the camera thought the light was (red/green) and compare that to what the driver actually did. Obviously they could already be doing this but this raises the awareness to the owners even higher. Regulators are going to insist of having this type of information. One wonders how many 9's will be needed as in 99.999..... before Tesla will consider releasing it. (...)


I wonder if the car will do the mandatory stop [edit: in the future] when the stop light is out due to a power failure for example. Many "human" drivers fail to abide by that rule.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

FrancoisP said:


> I wonder if the car will do the mandatory stop when the stop light is out due to a power failure for example.


It will not. This feature doesn't control the car - it just emits a "warning" when the car believes you are about to run a red light.


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## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

garsh said:


> It will not. This feature doesn't control the car - it just emits a "warning" when the car believes you are about to run a red light.


Sorry, I meant in the future, not today.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Earl figured out how to get the red light warning to fire.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1110882101816164352


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## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

garsh said:


> Earl figured out how to get the red light warning to fire.


Looks like the car was right to chime 'cause you did not seem to do a complete stop before taking a right turn lol.

Next time, try to do a full stop and then take the turn to see if the car will chime back at you.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

FrancoisP said:


> Looks like the car was right to chime 'cause you did not seem to do a complete stop before taking a right turn lol.
> 
> Next time, try to do a full stop and then take the turn to see if the car will chime back at you.


This was Earl's poor driving habits - not mine.


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## HeavyPedal (Oct 28, 2018)

Here's a video of the Stop Light warning feature in action.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

garsh said:


> This was Earl's poor driving habits - not mine.


This feature only works when Autopilot is active, correct?

Also, can it be enabled / disabled? Or is it just "there"?


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## DocScott (Mar 6, 2019)

First of all, has anyone figured out if this applies to plain AP (not EAP or FSD)?

In the video in AmpHog's post, it sure looks like triggering the warning _also_ disengages AP. If so, it's more than just a warning, because regenerative breaking will at least start to slow the car. And it does it plenty in advance, so it's not just an emergency stop. It's more like when NOA disengages at the end of an offramp; at a stop light (when it works, which clearly is currently hit and miss), it looks like AP just hands off to the driver in the usual smooth way.

The future difference with FSD, then, would mainly be that AP would stop the car rather than disengaging, and that the car would start moving again automatically when the light turns green.


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## Kizzy (Jul 25, 2016)

DocScott said:


> First of all, has anyone figured out if this applies to plain AP (not EAP or FSD)?
> 
> In the video in AmpHog's post, it sure looks like triggering the warning _also_ disengages AP. If so, it's more than just a warning, because regenerative breaking will at least start to slow the car. And it does it plenty in advance, so it's not just an emergency stop. It's more like when NOA disengages at the end of an offramp; at a stop light (when it works, which clearly is currently hit and miss), it looks like AP just hands off to the driver in the usual smooth way.
> 
> The future difference with FSD, then, would mainly be that AP would stop the car rather than disengaging, and that the car would start moving again automatically when the light turns green.


I'm suspecting that the driver is hitting the brake, therefore disengaging Autopilot. Has anyone read the comments?


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

Kizzy said:


> I'm suspecting that the driver is hitting the brake, therefore disengaging Autopilot. Has anyone read the comments?


Yeah, you'd actually have to run a red light to find out for sure if autopilot remains engaged.

So... no thanks, I'm not running that particular test.


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

garsh said:


> Yeah, you'd actually have to run a red light to find out for sure if autopilot remains engaged.
> 
> So... no thanks, I'm not running that particular test.


Earl did for us in the video you posted


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## TheHairyOne (Nov 28, 2018)

Are the people with the warning running 8.3?


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## Nick's Tesla Life (May 19, 2018)

TheHairyOne said:


> Are the people with the warning running 8.3?


I am running 2019.8.3 and believe that is when it was released. At least it was the first one where the release notes stated it.


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## Nick's Tesla Life (May 19, 2018)

Needsdecaf said:


> This feature only works when Autopilot is active, correct?
> 
> Also, can it be enabled / disabled? Or is it just "there"?


There is no setting to enable/disable it that I can find.


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## WonkoTheSane (Nov 14, 2018)

So this red light warning, does it warn you AFTER you go through one? I've tried half a dozen times and no warning. Maybe I'm too chicken to leave it long enough, but I've come awful damn close to running red lights. Yes I'm in autopilot, with or without NOA.


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## Ken Voss (Feb 2, 2017)

WonkoTheSane said:


> So this red light warning, does it warn you AFTER you go through one? I've tried half a dozen times and no warning. Maybe I'm too chicken to leave it long enough, but I've come awful damn close to running red lights. Yes I'm in autopilot, with or without NOA.


I have tried it several times and here is what I have found
1- I feel the warning comes on way too late, going about 30 MPH on AP and the warning does not come on until you are about 25 feet from the intersection, at that point you need to react very quickly and hit the brakes pretty hard.
2- It definitely works better at night, it comes on more reliably and the warning come on sooner.

It is my intent to retest this with each new release, and like everything else we have seen in the world of AP/FSD, I am sure we will see continuous improvement but based on the way it works today on release 2019.8.3 I will not be using it, I just don't think it is ready for prime time yet


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## MelindaV (Apr 2, 2016)

(on 8..5) 
Yesterday I was coming up to a signal and the light turned yellow with enough distance to come to a stop, but going fast enough to get thru before it turned red, so I kept EAP engaged and watched to see if the warning would come up. Nope. 
Last weekend, I was on a small street (30mph) with no one else around and the light ahead was red, so tapped the EAP speed down to the minimum (18mph) and continued toward the intersection. The warning came up as I was crossing the stop bar and cross walk. So it did come on, but to be functional, IMO, even at that low speed should have been a few car lengths earlier.


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