# Adding Tesla Solar in Texas



## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

OK. 
I have been thinking about adding a solar system. Tesla Energy called me couple weeks ago, out of the blue and we talked about it and then we started a system design. 
I have signed a deal for a 14.5 kW system on my house. This should provide 100% of our electricity needs based on our usage for the last 12 months. This is what it is projected to do for me over the course of a year based on my previous usage.










The system doesn't come cheap. Using the new black tesla panels made in Buffalo New York, rated at 315 W per panel and adding Critter Guards to the system, makes it quite pricey. Here is the price breakdown.

46 panels (315w x 46 x $3.20/watt) = $46.368
Surcharge for Premium panels ($0.15/watt x 46 x 315) = $2173.50
Critter Guards are priced per watt!!! (silly imo but still part of Tax credit) ($0.10 x 46 x 315) =$1449
Grand total = $49,990.50 

After the local rebate of $4500 from our energy company CoServ and the federal tax credit it works out to this.

$49,990.50 - 4500 - 30% of that = $31,843.35

I found out yesterday that Tesla _*MAY*_ have gotten the paperwork done in time so I should be getting the CoServ rebate. Will know for sure today. There have been paperwork problems at Tesla for this rebate and the interconnection department has been very slow to get the paperwork done and CoServ is running out of their allotted funds for the year. With that in place, I will go forward with the install.

I am just waiting for the HOA meeting tomorrow for approval. And of course building permit in the city. The problem with the HOA is this. They do not allow solar systems on the front elevation of the home. But my home base south. 
Now they cannot tell you in TEXAS that you cannot install solar but can restrict location. So I have to invoke a provision from Texas law that states if it produces 10% more being on the front of the home then it would on the sides, "it is to be allowed". 
Tesla Energy has supplied me with a couple of reports that show this. 
I have a feeling however, since no one else in this community of 2500+ homes has solar on the front, that they will pushback on this unless their lawyer tells them not to. So I think they will press to test and see if they can keep me from doing it. Which may delay my install at least two weeks as Tesla will not set up an install date until you have approval from the HOA (verbal from me is fine) as well as the city and the electric company.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

So is it worth the outlay? 
My thoughts.
If the rates stay low, like they are, the payback could be 20 years! Ouch.
If they go up 3% a year over the next 15 years, then the payback would be about 15 years. 
So nothing spectacular, but it makes me self sufficient and RUBY can drive with sun power.

Since I referred myself , the system gets an extra 5 year warrenty to make it 25 years bumper to bumper, everything.
Plus since I did this the day before the changed the referral program, I will get either $750 Tesla Credit (cant be used in the store, only in Service Center) or $400 cash. 

So the system is warrantied at least 5 years after I am paid back and it has a "lifetime" of 30 years. At which point I probably wont care . 

adding it ot my homeowners policy will add about $9.25/month. But if we get a big hail storm as we tend to do here, I will get Fresh panels  that probably produce more energy.


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## Feathermerchant (Sep 17, 2018)

WTF? How are you ever going to pay back $32,000 in electric bills? It looks like your average consumption is ~1.500 kWh per month. At 0.10/kWh that's $150/mo or $1,800/yr for an 18 year payback (assuming no interest).
And where you live there is hail...


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

So now I am thinking about a Powerwall as well.

Any inputs would be appreciated

They suggested I add at least two powerwalls. 
But I'm trying to reconcile the cost of the system. Not including installation it will cost this...










and after federal tax credit will cost us $10150 plus installation (also at 30% off due to Tax Credit)

The tesla battery power wall has a 10 year warranty with a 70% capacity guarantee. So after 10 years he should at least have 9.5 kW per battery. I figure if I run two of these, they will be a good back up for the whole house and I won't need a sub panel. 
That said, we never lose power out here. I've lived out here for 14 years in two different houses and if we ever lose power it's for like minutes. Rarely longer. So as a back up, it doesn't necessarily make sense for me now. 
Question is will that be an issue in the future? So if I take part of that price and dedicate it as a back up system, that lowers my affective price. 
But does it make sense to use this at all? I mean; say during the day I produce 100% of my daily usage so some of the power goes to the grid. And someone else uses it instead of some Carbon fueled electricity. But at night I still need power so they're still making that in a power plant in sending it to my house even though I am now zero. So it doesn't change anything on how much is generated if I have a powerwall since the neighbor will still need fossil produced electricity at from the electric company since I saved what I overproduced during the day. 
So with just solar, I am still at 100%. And haven't changed anything by adding the batteries other than upgrading my cost. Does anyone else have ideas on this. Or am I thinking of this the wrong way?

Now there will be edge cases where I produce so much that I cover my use and fill the powerwalls and still export some power but not all the time.

One other factor is I am subject to monthly net meter where if I overproduce for the month, I get nothing back, not even a thank you. But if I use a net amount, I pay full rate.

Say I cycle the batteries every night all 27kw, every day for 10 years. But isn't that the same as if I just exported it to the grid and then used their power at night and netted Zero??


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Feathermerchant said:


> WTF? How are you ever going to pay back $32,000 in electric bills? It looks like your average consumption is ~1.500 kWh per month. At 0.10/kWh that's $150/mo or $1,800/yr for an 18 year payback (assuming no interest).
> And where you live there is hail...


Right. Like I said above 15-20 year payback. 
But hail is covered under the homeowners policy and they pay to replace them. 
And acting as the contractor (20% extra payout), I have never had an out of packet after a hail storm (twice)


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## Feathermerchant (Sep 17, 2018)

Too bad you are on a CooP and cannot choose electric providers.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Feathermerchant said:


> Too bad you are on a CooP and cannot choose electric providers.


Exactly. I wish I could pick one with better net metering policies.

Interestingly enough, I found out that my Coop CoServ is a subsidiary of ONCOR. How is that possible /allowed?

But we are planning on staying in this house. So I am hopeful that I live long enough to see the cost recoup. HA! 
But if we move, I would hope it would add some value.

I know TESLA may be more than other providers but that said, I got one quote from a company that uses SunRun (?) panels that wanted $3.50 a watt and didn't include the skirting or event the Critter Guards.
Plus I figure TESLA may be around for the long run (hoping)


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## Enginerd (Aug 28, 2017)

I think what you might be struggling with is quantifying the unquantifiables. How much is it worth to you to be fossil-fuel independent, in terms of dollars? What value do you place on being self-sufficient in the event of a weather-induced (never-happen?) power outage? I don't know my own answers to those questions. But after hurricanes Florence and Michael came through, the self-sufficient part is gaining in value. Unless you can place value on these things and stand behind it, it's hard to make a purely economic case for it. But not everything is a numbers game.


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## Feathermerchant (Sep 17, 2018)

To be self sufficient after a hurricane/tornado you need to have a house left standing.

I see nothing that indicates CoServ is a subsidiary of Oncor. Oncor is an investor owned company like Tesla. CoServ is a Coop which is composed of members who can vote but pay no regular dues.
The concept of coops stems from a need for rural electric service in the 30's which investor owned companies would not provide because it was not profitable (not enough load and sparsely populated).
In Texas, the coops have a very large lobby in Austin. They and the municipalities were able to convince the Texas legislature that they should be able to opt out of retail electric competition. Guess what? They all but one opted out. So since I have choice, my electric bill for this year is $28 per month as long as I stay under 1,000 kWh per month.
For many reasons I think the time for coops has passed but here we are...


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## Johnston (Oct 12, 2018)

I think in Texas with our energy costs it'd take a very long time to recoup the costs of installing solar. One has to do it for the environment and not the cost savings alone.

Also, the 30% federal credit is a credit right? Not a rebate. This means you have to make sure you'd owe that much in taxes to get the full credit.

For example, 30% of $45,000 is $13,500, but if you only owe say $10,000 in taxes, $10,000 is what you'd get. This is what I understand from the $7500 credit, so someone can correct me if I am wrong on the solar credit.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Feathermerchant said:


> To be self sufficient after a hurricane/tornado you need to have a house left standing.
> 
> I see nothing that indicates CoServ is a subsidiary of Oncor. Oncor is an investor owned company like Tesla. CoServ is a Coop which is composed of members who can vote but pay no regular dues.
> The concept of coops stems from a need for rural electric service in the 30's which investor owned companies would not provide because it was not profitable (not enough load and sparsely populated).
> ...


That was told to me by Tesla. As I was reviewing the plans, I found they reference CoServ and on another sheet ONCOR. I thought it was an error and they said no. That CoServ is under ONCOR. So IDK know what the deal is here, but it is all fishy, just like the Lobby you mention above.

So how do you pay $28 a month? do you have a system that will produce that? my bill will be about that in Fees if I go Solar


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Johnston said:


> I think in Texas with our energy costs it'd take a very long time to recoup the costs of installing solar. One has to do it for the environment and not the cost savings alone.
> 
> Also, the 30% federal credit is a credit right? Not a rebate. This means you have to make sure you'd owe that much in taxes to get the full credit.
> 
> For example, 30% of $45,000 is $13,500, but if you only owe say $10,000 in taxes, $10,000 is what you'd get. This is what I understand from the $7500 credit, so someone can correct me if I am wrong on the solar credit.


You are Correct. It is a Credit. So you have to owe that much in Taxes. I thought you could carry it forward if needed into the next year but after looking at the IRS Form 5695 instructions, I do not see that.

EDIT to update IRS info


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## Feathermerchant (Sep 17, 2018)

I have no system. I have a very efficient 33 year old Lennox 2 speed 3 ton A/C unit and gas heat and water heat. The rate is from First Choice Power and AFAIK is no longer listed. But I have been receiving and paying bills for $28 the last several months.


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## Johnston (Oct 12, 2018)

LUXMAN said:


> That was told to me by Tesla. As I was reviewing the plans, I found they reference CoServ and on another sheet ONCOR. I thought it was an error and they said no. That CoServ is under ONCOR. So IDK know what the deal is here, but it is all fishy, just like the Lobby you mention above.
> 
> So how do you pay $28 a month? do you have a system that will produce that? my bill will be about that in Fees if I go Solar


I wonder if the confusion could also be how it is where I live. My electricity provider is CenterPoint Energy, but my electric company that I pay the bills to is Discount Power. If you look at your bill you may see if there's surcharge to the electricity provider.

And if you don't already know, powertochoose.org is a great place to shop for electricity.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Johnston said:


> I wonder if the confusion could also be how it is where I live. My electricity provider is CenterPoint Energy, but my electric company that I pay the bills to is Discount Power. If you look at your bill you may see if there's surcharge to the electricity provider.
> 
> And if you don't already know, powertochoose.org is a great place to shop for electricity.


Yeah, But as noted above, We are in a Coop Area and hence have no power to choose. We HAVE to have CoServ. You cant change.


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

Feathermerchant said:


> I have no system. I have a very efficient 33 year old Lennox 2 speed 3 ton A/C unit and gas heat and water heat. The rate is from First Choice Power and AFAIK is no longer listed. But I have been receiving and paying bills for $28 the last several months.


How do you stay under 1,000 kWh in a month with a 33 year old A/C system? How is any 33 year old A/C system efficient? Just curious. Do you live in a tiny house, or keep it at, like, 85 degrees in the summer? 

Edit: Maybe a better question is: how is a 33 year old A/C system still running?


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> That was told to me by Tesla. As I was reviewing the plans, I found they reference CoServ and on another sheet ONCOR. I thought it was an error and they said no. That CoServ is under ONCOR. So IDK know what the deal is here, but it is all fishy, just like the Lobby you mention above.
> 
> So how do you pay $28 a month? do you have a system that will produce that? my bill will be about that in Fees if I go Solar


I haven't researched the ownership structure, but I suspect you're like the rest of us in North Texas: ONCOR maintains the wires that deliver the power, and CoServ generates and sells you the power. However, it's possible co-ops maintain their own wires, in which case I have no idea why ONCOR is a party to the deal.


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

As long as we're pooling our ignorance, I researched this topic (solar in a deregulated Texas retail environment) several months ago and came away thinking the metering worked like this: as soon as (instantly) I produced more power than I was using, that excess fed back to the grid and I was not compensated. Not on a monthly basis, but instantly. If that is true (for me), it would require a couple of Powerwalls to store the daytime energy to be used at night. I ran the numbers and figured my current rate (8.1 cents/kWh) would have to double for me to benefit economically from solar power. Just not in the realm of feasibility. I think there was one REP that did net-metering (i.e. they paid you for power you produced)--one, out of dozens of REPs. And it was not price competitive.

However, I'm sure it's different with co-ops. @LUXMAN, I admire you for taking the plunge.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Dr. J said:


> I haven't researched the ownership structure, but I suspect you're like the rest of us in North Texas: ONCOR maintains the wires that deliver the power, and CoServ generates and sells you the power. However, it's possible co-ops maintain their own wires, in which case I have no idea why ONCOR is a party to the deal.


I am gonna ask that question soon. Probably AFTER I get my rebate check! LOL! 
But CoServ does have their own trucks and also run the natural GAS. So they have a double monopoly out here.
I think they maintain the wires and pipelines and buy the electricity and gas for resale.

I just got word that I made it in under the wire and qualify for the Solar Rebate. Now have to get this plan past the HOA tomorrow night and hopefully be able to schedule the install Friday for sometime soon, hopefully before the middle of November


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

Johnston said:


> I wonder if the confusion could also be how it is where I live. My electricity provider is CenterPoint Energy, but my electric company that I pay the bills to is Discount Power. If you look at your bill you may see if there's surcharge to the electricity provider.
> 
> And if you don't already know, powertochoose.org is a great place to shop for electricity.


To be precise, CenterPoint, ONCOR, AEP and TNMP are Transmission/Distribution Service Providers. They deliver electricity, i.e., maintain the wires, and get a fee for each meter. Their former power producing subsidiaries were split from them during deregulation.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Dr. J said:


> As long as we're pooling our ignorance, I researched this topic (solar in a deregulated Texas retail environment) several months ago and came away thinking the metering worked like this: as soon as (instantly) I produced more power than I was using, that excess fed back to the grid and I was not compensated. Not on a monthly basis, but instantly. If that is true (for me), it would require a couple of Powerwalls to store the daytime energy to be used at night. I ran the numbers and figured my current rate (8.1 cents/kWh) would have to double for me to benefit economically from solar power. Just not in the realm of feasibility. I think there was one REP that did net-metering (i.e. they paid you for power you produced)--one, out of dozens of REPs. And it was not price competitive.
> 
> However, I'm sure it's different with co-ops. @LUXMAN, I admire you for taking the plunge.


Instant Net Meter is what I am afraid of. I was actually wondering if that is where we will end up. They will take your power for free since you have to be hooked up and then charge you for every electron coming your way. If that is the case, I think a couple powerwalls will be feasible even at the cheap rate. Assuming you are in your home for the long haul and pair it with Solar. Cuz if that were the case, you could produce from say 9-5 the energy you need from solar and could use the Powerwall to supplement until you are just using PW at night. Else you will be using grid power for 12+ hours. under this Net Meter scenario, you cut your bill in 1/2 say but they still get ya for the other 1/2.
Now the more I think about it, (Days off are bad things), the more I cannot yet justify the PW unless this were to happen, unless someone else has some ideas. Yes, obviously I wanna be green, but if I use the saved PW energy at night under my current plan, it makes difference in my bill. But by exporting it during the day, they are producing less energy with fossil fuels during the day and late afternoon, so maybe that will decrease their production by a blip since people power down in the evening (unless of course you presume they use more power from 6-10pm, which I guess very well may be the case.


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> Instant Net Meter is what I am afraid of.


Actually, net metering is the opposite: that's when the power company pays the consumer for electricity he generates. More accurately, the consumer pays only for the net difference between electricity consumed and generated. Here's a rundown (from Sunfinity Solar) on where in Texas net metering is found: https://quickelectricity.com/2018-solar-panel-incentives-texas-net-metering-buyback-programs/. They don't mention co-ops, however.


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## Feathermerchant (Sep 17, 2018)

I live in a 2,000 sq ft house. ~1,000 up and ~1,000 down. When I bought the AC unit it was the highest efficiency Lennox made. Being a two speed unit it is difficult to measure the efficiency because that depends on how much time it runs on high speed and low speed. I'm not sure why it is still running much less being efficient. I keep it up making sure it is clean and charged properly. We keep the temp at about 76 deg in the summer. And we tend to travel a bit when it is hot. When we are not here it is off. I have replaced almost all the lighting with LED. First doing the lights used the most.

Oncor and other 'wires' companies have singly certified areas. Areas where only they can serve. So do CoOps. There are detailed maps and some dually certificated areas..
Here is a page with some links. The resolution is pretty terrible. 
http://www.puc.texas.gov/industry/maps/Electricity.aspx

The monopoly utilities are allowed to charge only what is approved by the PUC through hearings much like civil trials. That is the substitute for competition. The retail providers have to list their rates with the PUC but have much more freedom. Oncor is like UPS. They do not make or sell the product. Just deliver it. The retail providers just but electricity from the generators and sell it to consumers. Kind of like Walmart or Amazon without inventory.


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

Feathermerchant said:


> I live in a 2,000 sq ft house. ~1,000 up and ~1,000 down. When I bought the AC unit it was the highest efficiency Lennox made. Being a two speed unit it is difficult to measure the efficiency because that depends on how much time it runs on high speed and low speed. I'm not sure why it is still running much less being efficient. I keep it up making sure it is clean and charged properly. We keep the temp at about 76 deg in the summer. And we tend to travel a bit when it is hot. When we are not here it is off. I have replaced almost all the lighting with LED. First doing the lights used the most.
> 
> Oncor and other 'wires' companies have singly certified areas. Areas where only they can serve. So do CoOps. There are detailed maps and some dually certificated areas..
> Here is a page with some links. The resolution is pretty terrible. The monopoly utilities are allowed to charge only what is approved by the PUC through hearings much like civil trials. That is the substitute for competition. The retail providers have to list their rates with the PUC but have much more freedom. Oncor is like UPS. They do not make or sell the product. Just deliver it. The retail providers just but electricity from the generators and sell it to consumers. Kind of like Walmart or Amazon without inventory.


Very informative. I don't think your links made it, however (at least not on my screen).


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Dr. J said:


> Actually, net metering is the opposite: that's when the power company pays the consumer for electricity he generates. More accurately, the consumer pays only for the net difference between electricity consumed and generated. Here's a rundown (from Sunfinity Solar) on where in Texas net metering is found: https://quickelectricity.com/2018-solar-panel-incentives-texas-net-metering-buyback-programs/. They don't mention co-ops, however.


Oh, I get the net metering concept and we have that with the Coop. basically I pay for anything over what I make each month with the Coop. There is no rolling credits here 

But reading that 2nd article, The instant metering thing I was thinking of is akin to the "*Feed-in tariffs* are rates that apply for surplus electricity exported to the grid."
This is where they pay less for what you make than what you use. I was imagining a scenario where the Feed-in tariffs went to Zero and basically you pay for any electricity coming your way. So this confirms there is a mechanism for that to happen. But at least we aren't there yet here.

Over the last couple hours, we have been discussing it and I also talked to my buddy...…Leaning towards the PW install even though it isn't making $ sense at the moment


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## Feathermerchant (Sep 17, 2018)

The thins to remember is that the utility you are connected to has paid for the infrastructure you use to connect to the grid. It is designed and built to have the capacity to serve your entire load. It also is expected to be maintained and repaired by the utility. So you should pay for that. And that is most of what you do pay for with a wires company.

Since the wires company is not in the business of buying/selling the energy, your contract for that is with the energy provider in a competitive area.

In the case of a CoOp you are dealing with both the wires company and the energy provider. Separating the two functions leads to a better understanding of what is going on.


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

Johnston said:


> I think in Texas with our energy costs it'd take a very long time to recoup the costs of installing solar. One has to do it for the environment and not the cost savings alone.


I've never understood this kind of short-range thinking. Even if it took 18 years to pay it all off, everything after that is just cash in the pocket, free money. They will probably last 50 years (with occasional inverter replacement).

I also don't understand why a neighbour would give a frying luck, roof top solar is beautiful and practical (makes the world a better place to live).

With the sunniest roofs shaded with roof-top solar, you will probably see your summer energy bills drop! That's when you would really want net metering!


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## Feathermerchant (Sep 17, 2018)

Well if you move, unless you can get a better selling price, you won't get payback.

I live where large hail is pretty common. I'm always worried about what it would do to solar panels.
If you're looking at 18-20 yr payback, you'll almost certainly encounter hail two or three times during that period.


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## 96s46p (Jul 5, 2018)

Seems expensive. You should be able to get a nice 14.5kw system installed for <40k before incentives.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Feathermerchant said:


> Well if you move, unless you can get a better selling price, you won't get payback.
> 
> I live where large hail is pretty common. I'm always worried about what it would do to solar panels.
> If you're looking at 18-20 yr payback, you'll almost certainly encounter hail two or three times during that period.


Right. I am also in a hail area. It is added to the homeowners insurance and they are covered for hail at replacement cost


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

Feathermerchant said:


> The thing to remember is that the *ratepayers of the* utility you are connected to *have* paid for the infrastructure you use to connect to the grid.


FTFY


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

PNWmisty said:


> They will probably last 50 years (with occasional inverter replacement).


The Powerwalls won't. I think they will last about 10 years, maybe a little more. When I ran my numbers, it was way longer than a 20-year payoff. I've already lived in my house 30 years, so another 25-30 seems unlikely. But sure, it would have some resale value. Not a lot, though, in a non-net metering situation.

This is Texas, where the policy is to encourage large solar and wind installations, and discourage (at a state level, though not at the utility level) distributed (rooftop) solar. That's just the way we roll.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Feeling pretty lucky that we have some reasonable power rates in TX, but for the summer months the last two years my water bill has been more expensive than my electricity bill. If I had a choice and a bigger yard, I'd be considering drilling my own water well vs looking at solar. The house is just a little over 2,000 sq ft and was recently remodeled including a new 5 ton AC unit, new insulation in the attic and added a pool with a variable speed pump and now this summer added the Model 3. The electric bill was under the water bill by almost $50. The pool took a little water, but very little. The yard and house foundation are where most of it goes. 

Most of us on city lots don't have the room to drill a water well, but if you've got a little extra land, could you better offset your utility charges by having your own water well vs the solar for electricity?


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Feathermerchant said:


> The thins to remember is that the utility you are connected to has paid for the infrastructure you use to connect to the grid. It is designed and built to have the capacity to serve your entire load. It also is expected to be maintained and repaired by the utility. So you should pay for that. And that is most of what you do pay for with a wires company.


I will be. 
There is a meter charge that everyone has to pay $10.

Then there is a DISTRIBUTED GENERATION FEE of $10 (for now) "CoServ's retail rate includes recovery of fixed costs, such as distribution capacity, metering, billing, and other fixed costs, in addition to the cost of energy. These fixed costs are incurred for all Members, including those with solar. Since CoServ allows net metering of the full retail rate, the DG fee recovers a portion of these fixed costs in a fair and equitable manner."

And then, there is the district fee everyone pays between $7-10 a month.

So I would not be getting something for nothing. I will be paying a higher rate if you think about it. If I pay for fixed costs based on electricity used within the rate plus the $10 fee, I already will pay a higher rate to be hooked to the grid.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Dr. J said:


> The Powerwalls won't. I think they will last about 10 years, maybe a little more. When I ran my numbers, it was way longer than a 20-year payoff. I've already lived in my house 30 years, so another 25-30 seems unlikely. But sure, it would have some resale value. Not a lot, though, in a non-net metering situation.
> 
> This is Texas, where the policy is to encourage large solar and wind installations, and discourage (at a state level, though not at the utility level) distributed (rooftop) solar. That's just the way we roll.


They have a 10 year, Unlimited Cycle warrenty and a 70% capacity guarantee during that time.

There really isn't a payoff for these where I live. They are really a house backup generator, that allows solar production to continue. 
I am still wrapping my head around doing this part of it. 
Some guys have boats. Some guys have guns. Some guys have Girlfriends. 
So maybe this is my toy (along with the 3). I don't know. I go back and forth.


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

Dr. J said:


> The Powerwalls won't.


I was speaking to the solar panels, not the Powerwall. Batteries make more sense at the utility level (to avoid the need for peaker plants) or if you are located off-grid or install a setup that functions during grid failures. Kinda like a gas or diesel generator would never pay for itself in terms of cost of electricity but it might make sense for the extra reliability.



> This is Texas, where the policy is to encourage large solar and wind installations, and discourage (at a state level, though not at the utility level) distributed (rooftop) solar. That's just the way we roll.


Taking the ownership out of the hands of the people and into the hands of the corporations who own the transmission infrastructure is nothing to be proud of. Particularly for a state that appears to pride itself on individual independence. Distributed generation combined with a lighter but smarter grid is the way forward to achieve low cost, sustainability and higher reliability. Of course, this doesn't leave much in the way of quarterly dividend checks for the fat cats and the energy traders!


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> So maybe this is my toy (along with the 3). I don't know. I go back and forth.


I like this! Plus, it's more future proof than having boats, guns and girlfriends. Some might argue on the guns part but it would be a sad world to live in if we allow our democracy to descend into chaos to the point we need guns just to survive each other. It would be like a million steps backwards. Currently, we are only at a thousand steps backward. There is still time to reverse the trend. In any case, guns are cheap compared to boats, girlfriends and solar!


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> So I would not be getting something for nothing. I will be paying a higher rate if you think about it. If I pay for fixed costs based on electricity used within the rate plus the $10 fee, I already will pay a higher rate to be hooked to the grid.


In other words, you will become even a bigger net asset for the utility company. Can you buy stock in them?


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## Feathermerchant (Sep 17, 2018)

The CoOp is 'owned' by the members supposedly.
My point about paying for the infrastructure you use is that you do not own it and you never will. The utility does. You do use it for sure. If you don't need it, you can disconnect and you will not miss it.
Think of it as a public street. You don't own it and you never will but you have agreed to pay for it's construction and maintenance so you can use it any time you want.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

That is an interesting idea - if you add the Powerwall as well, what happens if you just have the electrical service disconnected?


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

PNWmisty said:


> is nothing to be proud of.


I'm not. And I agree with you.


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

Feathermerchant said:


> The CoOp is 'owned' by the members supposedly.
> My point about paying for the infrastructure you use is that you do not own it and you never will. The utility does. You do use it for sure. If you don't need it, you can disconnect and you will not miss it.
> Think of it as a public street. You don't own it and you never will but you have agreed to pay for it's construction and maintenance so you can use it any time you want.


No, you (and I) own that, too, in a collective known as "We the people." Just like a co-op member is part owner of the co-op.


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## PNWmisty (Aug 19, 2017)

GDN said:


> That is an interesting idea - if you add the Powerwall as well, what happens if you just have the electrical service disconnected?


It's not uncommon for a jurisdiction to have laws that allow residential properties to be declared "unfit for human habitation" if there is no grid connection and/or sewer. Which effectively prevents people from going off-grid. I could only agree with these laws if they had an exception and a definition for acceptable forms of self-supplied power and/or sewage handling.


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> They have a 10 year, Unlimited Cycle warrenty and a 70% capacity guarantee during that time.
> 
> There really isn't a payoff for these where I live. They are really a house backup generator, that allows solar production to continue.
> I am still wrapping my head around doing this part of it.
> ...





LUXMAN said:


> CoServ allows net metering of the full retail rate


From this FAQ page, it appears you have full net metering on a monthly billing basis at retail rates. You're not me (lucky you!), but if I had this opportunity, I would run the numbers on my monthly electrical consumption vs. monthly expected solar generation over a 12-month period and try to match them (by sizing the solar system) as closely as possible. Then, again just me talking, I would dispense with the idea of the Powerwall, unless I really thought it would be a useful backup in case of an outage. In your (or in my theoretical) situation, the Powerwall will never make economic sense, given a properly sized system and full net metering at retail. YMMV. Sorry to be a buzzkill....can I interest you in buying my boat?  At any rate, the solar system should be a slam dunk. Well done!


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

GDN said:


> That is an interesting idea - if you add the Powerwall as well, what happens if you just have the electrical service disconnected?


You are not allowed to go off the grid. I don't know how that is legal but you have to be connected. But like I mentioned earlier, my boy says just don't pay the bill then you are off grid :tearsofjoy:


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Dr. J said:


> From this FAQ page, it appears you have full net metering on a monthly billing basis at retail rates. You're not me (lucky you!), but if I had this opportunity, I would run the numbers on my monthly electrical consumption vs. monthly expected solar generation over a 12-month period and try to match them (by sizing the solar system) as closely as possible. Then, again just me talking, I would dispense with the idea of the Powerwall, unless I really thought it would be a useful backup in case of an outage. In your (or in my theoretical) situation, the Powerwall will never make economic sense, given a properly sized system and full net metering at retail. YMMV. Sorry to be a buzzkill....can I interest you in buying my boat?  At any rate, the solar system should be a slam dunk. Well done!


That is what we have done. Initially we were at 70% because it would be 100% some months then never go over and give away electricity. But we ended up sizing to 99.88% (cuz you cant go over 100%, they wont let you). So we overproduce in the spring and fall and just a bit under in the summer. 
So even with the powerwalls, I may still pay a small bill in the summer.

With no $ reason, I guess we are looking at 
1. Do I need a backup system?
- what are odds of things changing in reliability over the next 30 years (solar life) or 10-15 
(battery life)
2. what benefit does it provide? Green benefits?


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Here are some backup generators at Home Depot
So what for an electrician to install? 1000?
so 4-7k for a standby system.


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## rluciano (Jun 27, 2018)

LUXMAN said:


> adding it ot my homeowners policy will add about $9.25/month. But if we get a big hail storm as we tend to do here, I will get Fresh panels  that probably produce more energy.


I wouldn't count on it. I have had solar for 11 years and 9-10 years ago, we had a BIG hailstorm. Bigger than baseball sized hail. Shattered two skylights, broke many concrete roof tiles, no problems with the solar panels.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

rluciano said:


> I wouldn't count on it. I have had solar for 11 years and 9-10 years ago, we had a BIG hailstorm. Bigger than baseball sized hail. Shattered two skylights, broke many concrete roof tiles, no problems with the solar panels.


Cool! 
So they came out unscathed? that is great.
I just meant if they did get toasted, they are covered by the insurance


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> Here are some backup generators at Home Depot
> So what for an electrician to install? 1000?
> so 4-7k for a standby system.
> 
> View attachment 16560


Informative. I'm guessing they are louder than a battery. And do you know how they compare to the Powerwall in what appliances they're able to run? To me, running the fridge would be most important; A/C would be next, but I don't know if any of those are capable of running an A/C system.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Dr. J said:


> Informative. I'm guessing they are louder than a battery. And do you know how they compare to the Powerwall in what appliances they're able to run? To me, running the fridge would be most important; A/C would be next, but I don't know if any of those are capable of running an A/C system.


I am not 100%, but reading the site for the $4500 one, typical install is $1500 and people say it runs the whole panel. So $6k for a standby Natural Gas unit with a 20 second response time[/QUOTE]


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Interestingly, I found this on the CoServ Site.
Gets me thinking...….
This is being thought through as I go.....

*Time-of-Use Rates *

*Determination of On-Peak/Off-Peak kWh:* The On-Peak hours upon which the On-Peak Energy Charge is based shall be the hours from 3 p.m. through 8 p.m. for the months of May through October, and from 6 a.m. through 8 a.m. and from 3 p.m. through 8 p.m. for the months of November through April. All other hours shall be classified as Off-Peak hours.
*Residential Time-of-Use:*
*Customer Charge* $12.00 per meter 
*Energy Charge* On-peak kWh $0.184089 MINUS the PCRF - $0.036 = *$0.148089 per kWh* 
Off-peak kWh $0.090705 MINUS the PCRF - $0.036 = *$0.054705 per kWh*

I currently pay Base rate per kWh $0.129402 MINUS the PCRF - $0.036 =* $0.093402 per kWh*

So if I do 2 PW2 and am able to use them during those times (solar should cover most summer evening hours and all but 2 winter evening hours), any energy I use will be at the lower rate saving $0.03869/ kw. 
But I am supposed to produce 19000 kw a year with system. But say I need 500 kw offset, that is $19.34 in savings a year. Holy Moly!!!! These powerwalls will pay for themselves in 656 years!!!! Ok so that did work out.

If I just had PWs and no solar and did the time of use charging dance, then I could save $735 a year and they would pay for them selves in 17.3 years. 

Well I guess I cant use this as a cost justification for use with Solar..... hummmmmmm but since it could be a backup system, it could be justified as a stand alone set up figuring in the cost of a generator system. But of course it is a short term solution to a power outage without solar, unless you just sweat it out with ACs or Heat off


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Well the HOA denied it. Their Lawyer interprets the Texas code differently than TESLA. So I can go into it if someone wants but we have a new design










I steped down to their 305 watt panel (also black but with white grid lines), but the price difference allowed the addition of 3 more panels for less money. Adding one more panel would have increased my cost, I had to draw the line somewhere! :laughing:
This increased the total system power by 500watts to 14.945kw, but it us lower in overall efficiency and produces 96.56% of our target (instead of 99.89%) but that was a high target to begin with. 
So I had to resubmit but they promised a quick turnaround. So hopefully all will be approved (HOA and permits) early next week and then we can schedule an install date!


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

[QUOTE="But we ended up sizing to 99.88% (cuz you cant go over 100%, they wont let you). [/QUOTE]

I've heard someone else say this, but it was not true for us. Went solar in Pennsylvania this year with Tesla, and we sized at 133% because we wanted to add capacity to charge the car.

Have found this an interesting thread, and a few other random thoughts from various posts:

I totally agree that the decision to go solar isn't all about a dollars and cents equation. It will probably eventually pay off, but with so many unknowns, it's impossible to be sure of that at this time. It's a diversification in our investments, basically. It's at least not lost value, like some other things at the moment!
We are waiting for powerwalls, and even more than the solar panels, I feel no need for a financial equation to justify them. They are simply a splurge that give us more independence and less likely to ever have a power outage.
Your net metering doesn't allow carryover to future months? That is concerning to me. It looks like your seasonal production vs consumption matches much better than ours, so should be ok for you. But we don't have the huge upswing in summer consumption (while we do have a huge upswing in summer production), so our net metering gives us massive credits in the summer which we whittle away through the winter.
I wish you well in a speedy installation, but have to caution that we found the process maddeningly slow. We signed in January, had our final design in February, and I thought possibly ready for install in March. But installation didn't happen until end of May, and we weren't allowed to activate until mid-July. I don't remember the blow by blow problems, but we were forever finding out that there was one more set of approvals and the number of re-submittals needed through the process was disturbing.


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

Bigriver said:


> we do have a huge upswing in summer production), so our net metering gives us massive credits in the summer which we whittle away through the winter.


If you sized your system at 133% (which I take to mean 1/3 more than your historical/predicted consumption), what happens to the ultimate excess production over the year? Do they pay you for it, or do you give it to them for free? Also, are your sales to the grid at the retail price, the wholesale price, or some other price?

CoServ's approach here is really quite good (paying the retail price, if only on a monthly basis), compared to most of Texas (the deregulated market) and compared to say, Nevada, where Warren Buffet got regulators to reduce the price on sales to the grid. Since, typically in Texas, seasonality of electricity consumption more or less matches solar production, CoServ customers can at least can recover their investment in solar.


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## Dr. J (Sep 1, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> we have a new design


Is it: solar panels on the west side of the house instead of the south side? Trying to interpret the diagram.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Dr. J said:


> Is it: solar panels on the west side of the house instead of the south side? Trying to interpret the diagram.


Yeah. There are 8 on east and 41 on the west. Neighbor is gonna love that :tearsofjoy:
It's the HOA thing. If I wanted to fight it I would prob need a lawyer and even then they could be right in their interpretation. So this gets me close on production. Plus we were higher this year than normal so we get close to 100% and 2 PW (splurge) will help.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Bigriver said:


> I've heard someone else say this, but it was not true for us. Went solar in Pennsylvania this year with Tesla, and we sized at 133% because we wanted to add capacity to charge the car.
> 
> Have found this an interesting thread, and a few other random thoughts from various posts:
> 
> ...


The 100% thing is something Tesla told me. I didn't actually verify with CoServ but I wouldn't doubt it. Now I am sure I coulda made the case that I have 2 electric cars and will need more but this is good as the price is already high.

Well I hope they are able to execute. The rebate for coserv requires I install this year. So no system if no rebate. I can't do it otherwise. Payback would be even worse.

Now he said that PWs are in all the warehouses so if they are not spoken for maybe I can get em quicker. And the fact we are in TX may help.
That said, the Energy Adviser side we can get the solar up first and do PW later but they would rather not unless they had to.

So I am hoping this works out quickly and doesn't drag on. I can be impatient:smirkcat:


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

Dr. J said:


> If you sized your system at 133% (which I take to mean 1/3 more than your historical/predicted consumption), what happens to the ultimate excess production over the year? Do they pay you for it, or do you give it to them for free? Also, are your sales to the grid at the retail price, the wholesale price, or some other price?
> 
> CoServ's approach here is really quite good (paying the retail price, if only on a monthly basis), compared to most of Texas (the deregulated market) and compared to say, Nevada, where Warren Buffet got regulators to reduce the price on sales to the grid. Since, typically in Texas, seasonality of electricity consumption more or less matches solar production, CoServ customers can at least can recover their investment in solar.


My net metering works on a tracking system of energy.... so far I have sent approximately 1000 kWh to the grid, so I can draw up to 1000 kWh from the grid at any time at no cost. If at any point that I use more than I have banked, I will start to pay normal rates like any customer. Once a year, in May, there is a reconciliation where they would pay me for any excess, and we start the net tracking with a fresh slate. They will pay me full retail rate, but only for the supplier portion, not for distribution. Although rates fluctuate, this is roughly that I will get paid 7 cents/ kWh for any excess, but if I've had to buy any during the winter, I will pay that rate plus also have a distribution rate of approximately 7 cents/kWh. So realistically I only get reimbursed for half the rate I have to buy it at. It is my goal to come out flush, with nothing to buy and nothing to sell.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

LUXMAN said:


> Well I hope they are able to execute. The rebate for coserv requires I install this year. So no system if no rebate. I can't do it otherwise. Payback would be even worse.
> 
> Now he said that PWs are in all the warehouses so if they are not spoken for maybe I can get em quicker.


I certainly hope they can do your installation to maximize your rebates. Wish you all the best on that.

On powerwalls, would love to understand their distribution and who actually gets them. As it had been in the news that there were PW shortages, I specifically enquired about their availability, and was told we have them locally. That was January 2018. But then they weren't available and I agreed in May to separate the solar installation, and that PW's could follow this Fall. After much silence and unanswered emails, I finally got a response that it will be 2019. I'm not holding my breath that even that will come to be. Luckily I am firmly rooted in understanding that PWs are a want not a need for my situation. Still wish Tesla could be more forthcoming. And will be very interested if you have the same (I hope not) or different experience on the PWs.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Bigriver said:


> My net metering works on a tracking system of energy.... so far I have sent approximately 1000 kWh to the grid, so I can draw up to 1000 kWh from the grid at any time at no cost. If at any point that I use more than I have banked, I will start to pay normal rates like any customer. Once a year, in May, there is a reconciliation where they would pay me for any excess, and we start the net tracking with a fresh slate. They will pay me full retail rate, but only for the supplier portion, not for distribution. Although rates fluctuate, this is roughly that I will get paid 7 cents/ kWh for any excess, but if I've had to buy any during the winter, I will pay that rate plus also have a distribution rate of approximately 7 cents/kWh. So realistically I only get reimbursed for half the rate I have to buy it at. It is my goal to come out flush, with nothing to buy and nothing to sell.


You are lucky in this regard. I cant stack up credits for the winter or summer. They do the reconciliation on a monthly basis. They do NOT pay for any excess produced in the month and I pay full rate for anything over I produce. 
I will see how this works out. If I overproduce, I will charge the car more and during the high use months, I will charge the car at work more where it is free


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Bigriver said:


> I certainly hope they can do your installation to maximize your rebates. Wish you all the best on that.
> 
> On powerwalls, would love to understand their distribution and who actually gets them. As it had been in the news that there were PW shortages, I specifically enquired about their availability, and was told we have them locally. That was January 2018. But then they weren't available and I agreed in May to separate the solar installation, and that PW's could follow this Fall. After much silence and unanswered emails, I finally got a response that it will be 2019. I'm not holding my breath that even that will come to be. Luckily I am firmly rooted in understanding that PWs are a want not a need for my situation. Still wish Tesla could be more forthcoming. And will be very interested if you have the same (I hope not) or different experience on the PWs.


I sure hope so.

Regarding PW. My REP said they had them in all the warehouses now. Meaning their SOLAR CITY installer warehouses. 
He told me that their priority was for customers that ordered PW and SOLAR together on the SAME contract. They would get them first then the people that ordered them as stand alone systems. He didn't specify if someone ordered them after the fact of a solar install (their Solar or someone elses install), but I assume they would be in with the bucket of folks who want stand alone PWs.

So I had a SOLAR contract and instead of a separate one for PWs (this idea came a few days after the Solar Deal), he wanted to redo the contract to include them for this reason. Now they have also made new plans to include them. So we have everything at the Utility now and are cleared on that end. 
I should have HOA approval on Monday as they said the new design would comply with the guidelines .
Then just waiting on building permits.

They may just schedule it so I will stop calling. LOL!


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

So this is fun....
We were at the local Kroger Grocery store and I saw a big Hot Wheels display. I thought I would look for the new STARMAN roadster. No luck, but I found this... How apropo!


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

So update on the Solar plans...

HOA Approved
Utility Approved
Permits Secured 
Install scheduled for ……...wait for it ………… March 5,6 !!!! Ahhhhhhh, No.

That makes 5 months from initial contact and 4 months from now. Not acceptable in my book. But the contract says approximate start date is 4-6 months after signing. So what can I say? 
Well, I say No. The Rebates from the Utility are only good if the system is *installed this year.* Else I would have to reply for the rebates after February 1st, *IF* they have rebates next year. I would rather take what they are offering now. So they have me on the short list to call if there is an opening. 
Apparently they have 3 crews in the DFW area (really, 3?) and they are booked solid. Now they know this is a problem and are apparently going to be traveling some crews here soon to help out (yeah and I got a bridge to sell ya), which may open some spots.


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

LUXMAN said:


> So update on the Solar plans...
> 
> HOA Approved
> Utility Approved
> ...


I had been wondering how things were progressing for you. So sorry to hear this. But don't totally give up yet. There really might be a chance that an installation opening happens. I was called at 5 pm one day and asked "can we install tomorrow?"


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Bigriver said:


> I had been wondering how things were progressing for you. So sorry to hear this. But don't totally give up yet. There really might be a chance that an installation opening happens. I was called at 5 pm one day and asked "can we install tomorrow?"


Thanks. I hope that happens! I am really wanting to do this. It's like I cant give ELON enough money!

BTW, I see you are 2 days from delivery! I am sure you are ready.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

Wo - Really 4 to 6 months? That is insane. They've got to learn to scale better than this. Unfortunately it is starting to show that a car production line isn't the only thing they aren't able to grow and manage very quickly. Are they limited on the crews because the production of panels is slow and behind or truly they just don't have enough install crews and they need to hire?


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

GDN said:


> Wo - Really 4 to 6 months? That is insane. They've got to learn to scale better than this. Unfortunately it is starting to show that a car production line isn't the only thing they aren't able to grow and manage very quickly. Are they limited on the crews because the production of panels is slow and behind or truly they just don't have enough install crews and they need to hire?


Apparently solar is more popular here then I thought. I don't see it being in a coop with low prices as much as other areas. Now they "said" inventory isn't the problem. They have panels and Powerwalls. They say. They just don't have enoug crews. Maybe they were caught flat footed at a time of increased demand or they are cautious to add crews for softer projections ahead? IDK. 
But I bet if they had a crew available tomorrow, they still wouldn't be able to do it as I hear stories of guys waiting long times for their PWs.

If they don't do it before the EOY, I will consider it an epic fail and I will either cancel the whole thing or take my business elsewhere. But where would that be? Another solar company I spoke with said they were 6 months out to get Powerwalls from Tesla. I could just go with straight solar with someone else and get a PW later but if that is what I wanted to do, that is what I would have done.

Sigh.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Of course I could just let the contract roll until they can do it. And either get a new utility rebate or see if they will eat the difference. But such a long time is not acceptable in my book, and I won’t pay more for the system. Period.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Still waiting for a sooner date for install. I called them a couple days ago and was told they will be bringing some crews in from El Paso after Thanksgiving. Not holding my breath.








That said, they rolled out a price drop on the panels yesterday. I posted this in another solar thread but here are some of the details.
So I called last night about the price drop. Not quite a 20% or even a 10% cut. They have just cut the price of the actual panels. Not the install, inverters or anything else. 
So while it may be a big cut in the Panel price, it turned out to be only a 6.5% price cut overall. Since the price went down, so did my Tax Credit. 
So after all is said and done, my proposed 49 panel system with 2 powerwalls, the price dropped by $2,056 or about 4.5%. So not allot but I'll take it. It should shave another 15 months my payback time.

Now if I cam just get an install date before the EOY


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

YES! 7 days til install! They called a few days ago and moved the install up to 19/20 December.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

@ days til install! 
Time to update the Homeowners Insurance


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## Quicksilver (Dec 29, 2016)

Congrats! Looks like it will be a really cool system once installed. Looking forward to the pics.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Quicksilver said:


> Congrats! Looks like it will be a really cool system once installed. Looking forward to the pics.


I got the before pics ready to go. Just a bit worried about Thursday as they are forecasting high winds. Hope they will be ok putting panels on. Don't want them to be big sails. That said, the forecast is for the winds to be from the NNW and the house I sheltered on the North and East by trees, so.....


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## Quicksilver (Dec 29, 2016)

LUXMAN said:


> I got the before pics ready to go. Just a bit worried about Thursday as they are forecasting high winds. Hope they will be ok putting panels on. Don't want them to be big sails. That said, the forecast is for the winds to be from the NNW and the house I sheltered on the North and East by trees, so.....


Looks like windy day but doesn't look too severe...


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Quicksilver said:


> Looks like windy day but doesn't look too severe...
> View attachment 19239


THANKS! That looks better than the Weather channel


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## Quicksilver (Dec 29, 2016)

LUXMAN said:


> THANKS! That looks better than the Weather channel


That's from the Dark Sky app. I find it fairly accurate...more so than other apps and news channels.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Today is the day! They are supposed to show between 12 and 2 and work the setup and tomorrow is supposed to be panel install and Powerwalls. 
Fingers crossed. 

They also sent me a link yesterday to pay 1/2  at the commencement of install. 
That will be the biggest CC charge I have ever made.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

It's happening!!!


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)




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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

So Here are the before photos...


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Day One Progress..


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

So tomorrow will be the remaining 11 Panels. 
Side skirts on Panels and "pest abatement" screens all around the system. 
2 Powerwalls. 
Run wires through Conduit that they installed thought the attic today.
Add a soft start Kit to each of the A/C units and that should be it. 

Then wait for Inspection and Utility to come.
I think the inspection will be quick.
I have been in touch with the Utility and they do it right after Christmas! So fingers crossed!


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## Bigriver (Jan 26, 2018)

LUXMAN said:


> Side skirts on Panels and "pest abatement" screens all around the system.


So I'm curious about this... on mine, they only installed the skirts on the bottom like your pictures are currently showing. There is only one location on mine that the absence of the skirt bothers me - which I mentioned to them and no one ever got back to me. And I have no idea what pest abatement screens are.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Bigriver said:


> So I'm curious about this... on mine, they only installed the skirts on the bottom like your pictures are currently showing. There is only one location on mine that the absence of the skirt bothers me - which I mentioned to them and no one ever got back to me. And I have no idea what pest abatement screens are.


They are going to put skirts on the sides as well tomorrow. They are only leaving the top open.
As for as PEST ABATEMENT or CRITTER GUARDS, it is supposed to a fitted mesh screen that fits between the panel and the roof so that squirrels and birds can't make nests under the panels. It is supposed to go all around the panels and even under the skirts.

We have lots of both types of critters in the tress around us. So we wanna keep them out.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Done!!
Now inspections and turn on are supposed to happen next week .....


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## Quicksilver (Dec 29, 2016)

LUXMAN said:


> They are going to put skirts on the sides as well tomorrow. They are only leaving the top open.
> As for as PEST ABATEMENT or CRITTER GUARDS, it is supposed to a fitted mesh screen that fits between the panel and the roof so that squirrels and birds can't make nests under the panels. It is supposed to go all around the panels and even under the skirts.
> 
> We have lots of both types of critters in the tress around us. So we wanna keep them out.


So out of curiosity, how many inches do the panels stand away from the roof? I thought that they would be flush to the roof but I guess there are hardware underneath the panels.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Quicksilver said:


> So out of curiosity, how many inches do the panels stand away from the roof? I thought that they would be flush to the roof but I guess there are hardware underneath the panels.


Ya know it does sit a bit higher than I thought it would. I would say 6 inches but will try to see if I can get a better estimate today after work.
But the skirts make it look very clean. There are higher from the roof than I thought as well but if the wife likes it (and she does) we are good.
If you are interested in doing it, DM me and we can set up a meet if you want. 
Plus I have a code that will extend the warrenty by 5 years.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Bigriver said:


> So I'm curious about this... on mine, they only installed the skirts on the bottom like your pictures are currently showing. There is only one location on mine that the absence of the skirt bothers me - which I mentioned to them and no one ever got back to me. And I have no idea what pest abatement screens are.


The abatement screens turned out to not be something we wanted to add all the way around. They were gonna screw them into the face of the skirts! So they looked like Chicken wire and definitely spoiled the look. So we stopped them and they just put them on the tops that don't have skirts and you cant see them. 
In further review, we also don't have trees right up to the house, so I guess squirrels wont get up there, so I hope the screens will deter any bird nests and they go to the trees instead.

Regarding your skirts, I would call them again. It looks so good when they put them all the way around.


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## Jaywlker (Oct 20, 2018)

Bigriver said:


> So I'm curious about this... on mine, they only installed the skirts on the bottom like your pictures are currently showing. There is only one location on mine that the absence of the skirt bothers me - which I mentioned to them and no one ever got back to me. And I have no idea what pest abatement screens are.


You can use chicken wire or similar to keep pigeons and other critters from making a mess under the panels.


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## Quicksilver (Dec 29, 2016)

LUXMAN said:


> Ya know it does sit a bit higher than I thought it would. I would say 6 inches but will try to see if I can get a better estimate today after work.
> But the skirts make it look very clean. There are higher from the roof than I thought as well but if the wife likes it (and she does) we are good.
> If you are interested in doing it, DM me and we can set up a meet if you want.
> Plus I have a code that will extend the warrenty by 5 years.


If 6", that is quite high above roof surface. Thanks the the offer to take a look and the code. I am thinking about it but probably not until sometimes in 2019. My HOA will probably not like it when I approach them about solar.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

Quicksilver said:


> If 6", that is quite high above roof surface. Thanks the the offer to take a look and the code. I am thinking about it but probably not until sometimes in 2019. My HOA will probably not like it when I approach them about solar.


They actually have no choice in Texas. They MUST allow it. Now they can stipulate what areas it is installed but they cannot deny you. For example. My HOA does not allow it on the front of the house. So that is their non-designated area. But you can put it in that area if you can show the system will make 10% more if it's there versus the designated area. But my HOA (and their lawyer) interprets that as saying the whole system has to go there. And 49 panels would not fit on the front of my house so we ended up with them on the sides and they approved that immediately. Now I may have been able to fight them on that since the system was more efficient but not by 10%. Those panels that were on the front were 10% more efficient but not the whole system. So it became legal ease and not worth the hassle. But I got my system on my house and very happy with it and hope it is turned on this week right after Christmas.

Now if you wanna do it, I suggest doing in 2019 as after that the tax credit of 30% starts to reduce. But you also need some lead time. My system was gonna take 5 months to get installed but ended up getting it in under 3 since my UTILITY rebate was going to expire at the EOY and I was available for a move up if a spot came available.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

WE DID IT! We are live!

I Present "THE WARP CORE"










Actually 2 Powerwalls. I don't know why they don't show 2. That will be a suggestion. But at the bottom (not shown) it says "2 x Powerwall"

I would like you to meet CORDELIA and STEPHANO, Can you figure out what their names are taken from?










Once we charged up the Powerwalls and the sun came up to hit the 41 panels on the West side, we were fully self powered and now pushing energy back to the grid already


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## Jay79 (Aug 18, 2018)

Amazing! Super jealous!


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

I was wondering if Stormwatch had kicked in and how things were going with the weather rolling in and I just saw your Tweet. No good. Maybe they just need to be rebooted, put your foot on the brake and press both steering wheel buttons !!


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

GDN said:


> I was wondering if Stormwatch had kicked in and how things were going with the weather rolling in and I just saw your Tweet. No good. Maybe they just need to be rebooted, put your foot on the brake and press both steering wheel buttons !!


Hey @GDN.
Nope, no Storm Watch at all over these last few sets of storms. 
I may call again. I manually set them for back up. Thankfully the hail didn't come. 
The Storms we had on the 13th tho I lost power for about 5 minutes. So the PWs took care of that.

On another note, I had a conversation with CoServ about their Net Meter policy .
Wont be making any progress I don't think. But whatever. 
They did say tho that higher rates may be coming as this summer may be a tough one for supply and demand. Maybe then I will make more of my system cost back 
Or maybe they will ask to use my stored power at some point. And they will have to pay a premium if they want it 
To be clear, I agreed to let them contact me for such a scenario when I installed the PWs, but I am not required to allow them to use the juice tho.


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## GDN (Oct 30, 2017)

LUXMAN said:


> Hey @GDN.
> Nope, no Storm Watch at all over these last few sets of storms.
> I may call again. I manually set them for back up. Thankfully the hail didn't come.
> The Storms we had on the 13th tho I lost power for about 5 minutes. So the PWs took care of that.
> ...


Hope Tesla gets on the Stormwatch thing, that is just the fun icing on the cake. I'm truly glad we didn't have baseball size hail to test the panels or your roof, but they all were sure it was coming, I guess conditions just looked right.

I know higher gas and electric prices aren't good for the economy, likely everything will start to go up, but once you get an EV or you get off the grid, there is just this little evil in the back of your head that says I don't care how expensive gas or electricity gets, I'm not having to buy it. My electrical rates are locked for another year. I'm at .08/Kwh. I'm not complaining at all. I'd lock in those rates for longer if they'd let me. I've been able to get that for 3 years at a time, I'm on year 5.


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## LUXMAN (Apr 4, 2016)

GDN said:


> Hope Tesla gets on the Stormwatch thing, that is just the fun icing on the cake. I'm truly glad we didn't have baseball size hail to test the panels or your roof, but they all were sure it was coming, I guess conditions just looked right.
> 
> I know higher gas and electric prices aren't good for the economy, likely everything will start to go up, but once you get an EV or you get off the grid, there is just this little evil in the back of your head that says I don't care how expensive gas or electricity gets, I'm not having to buy it. My electrical rates are locked for another year. I'm at .08/Kwh. I'm not complaining at all. I'd lock in those rates for longer if they'd let me. I've been able to get that for 3 years at a time, I'm on year 5.


I did see they has some hail north of Fort Worth but that is all I could find out. So mustta not been too bad. Now if it was, they woulda been like "SEE? I told ya!" 

Yeah, Kinda bad on my part. I am currently at a blended rate of .097 cents down to .082 cents. The more you use the cheaper it is....weird. But I haven't netted any out in the last 2 months.
I would definitely jump on the low rates if you get a chance again. I've been reading allot about Supply being a problem soon here in TX


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