# Crash with injuries



## Gwgans (Aug 10, 2017)

Sorry if this already posted. I am primarily interested in the safety implications of this car crash. Older driver listed as one of the seriously injured. Please add intel if you have it.
https://driveteslacanada.ca/model-3...3-and-police-cruiser-sends-three-to-hospital/


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

It looks like the police SUV was turning left onto Allen Rd, and didn't see the Tesla approaching at a high rate of speed. It also looks like the Tesla hit the police SUV, bounced off of that pole in the center, and spun around, and the police SUV's momentum carried it into the grass. It's also possible the Tesla driver had his view of the police car blocked, because it doesn't look like he tried to go around it.

I don't know about Toronto, but it's common in large cities for an intersection that large with that much room around it to have a 55 mph (90-ish kph) speed limit, with people regularly going about 10 over. That's one hell of a violent impact.


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## Frully (Aug 30, 2018)

JasonF said:


> It looks like the police SUV was turning left onto Allen Rd, and didn't see the Tesla approaching at a high rate of speed. It also looks like the Tesla hit the police SUV, bounced off of that pole in the center, and spun around, and the police SUV's momentum carried it into the grass. It's also possible the Tesla driver had his view of the police car blocked, because it doesn't look like he tried to go around it.
> 
> I don't know about Toronto, but it's common in large cities for an intersection that large with that much room around it to have a 55 mph (90-ish kph) speed limit, with people regularly going about 10 over. That's one hell of a violent impact.


Agreed...the math in the physics doesn't bode well...the fact that they survived with injuries is a testament to how good the cabin design is. As for the collision - emergency vehicles have always had it tough, needing to proceed through intersections is always a huge risk. Most jurisdictions have rules against fully blowing through, requiring that even high priority responses stop and assess before proceeding. There is little chance a 'theoretically perfect reaction time' ai response could avoid a split second lane incursion, let alone a human.

It does also speak to the future of self driving where autonomy can do away with the relatively archaic means for vehicles to have a limited inside-out view of the world. Once you network all the cars...all the sensors...the entire world becomes a truth table of who is safe to proceed and when. Need to exit? the swarm will make a gap. Emergency vehicle? The cars don't need to see or hear it - it has announced its presence digitally and the swarm yields. 
The future is awesome. It's the wetware that is the problem now during this hybrid time.


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

Frully said:


> Most jurisdictions have rules against fully blowing through, requiring that even high priority responses stop and assess before proceeding.


Ironically, in some cases that makes it worse. In the _exact case _of this topic in particular. Because if the cop paused before turning left, and then began the turn, his heavy SUV wouldn't have gained enough momentum to get out of the way of the Tesla before it hit him, even if he saw it just a fraction of a second too late.


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## bwilson4web (Mar 4, 2019)

Perhaps in 7-10 days, we might get the police report?

Bob Wilson


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## Frully (Aug 30, 2018)

JasonF said:


> Ironically, in some cases that makes it worse. In the _exact case _of this topic in particular. Because if the cop paused before turning left, and then began the turn, his heavy SUV wouldn't have gained enough momentum to get out of the way of the Tesla before it hit him, even if he saw it just a fraction of a second too late.


Then he couldn't verify that it was safe to proceed and shouldn't have; based on the view angles and velocities on that road.


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

Frully said:


> Then he couldn't verify that it was safe to proceed and shouldn't have; based on the view angles and velocities on that road.


In most places, without lights and sirens on the police SUV would have been at fault. How much at fault depends on the locality, at what speed the Tesla was travelling, and whether the traffic light was in the process of changing.

With lights and sirens? It varies even more. Some places always give 100% right of way to emergency vehicles with lights and sirens. I don't know what the laws are in Ontario having to do with that.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

Cars crash all the time, it's a matter of statistics that Teslas will be involved. Seems like this one is no fault of any systems on the Tesla. Plus, given that this was likely a fairly high rate of speed crash, the car seems to have performed as intended. Front end took the damage, passenger cell looks fine, airbags deployed. No surprise everyone went to the hospital. 

Seems like no big deal other than good job by Tesla making a safe car. Otherwise, nothing really to get excited about IMO.


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## Needsdecaf (Dec 27, 2018)

JasonF said:


> It looks like the police SUV was turning left onto Allen Rd, and didn't see the Tesla approaching at a high rate of speed. It also looks like the Tesla hit the police SUV, bounced off of that pole in the center, and spun around, and the police SUV's momentum carried it into the grass. It's also possible the Tesla driver had his view of the police car blocked, because it doesn't look like he tried to go around it.
> 
> I don't know about Toronto, but it's common in large cities for an intersection that large with that much room around it to have a 55 mph (90-ish kph) speed limit, with people regularly going about 10 over. That's one hell of a violent impact.


I'm not sure about that. It's all semantics anyway, but if the police SUV was turning, it would have been going slowly. The skid marks in the grass are in line with in line with it's direction of travel. Also, if it was turning Left and the Tesla was coming North, the Tesla driver likely would have seen it. Whereas if it had been coming Eastbound, it would have entered the intersection perpendicular to the Tesla driver's line of sight and easily not seen. My guess is that's what happend, and the Tesla did get knocked into the pole and spun off into the right side of the intersection by the speed of the cruiser moving left to right.

But in any event, hard hit.


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## Frully (Aug 30, 2018)

JasonF said:


> In most places, without lights and sirens on the police SUV would have been at fault. How much at fault depends on the locality, at what speed the Tesla was travelling, and whether the traffic light was in the process of changing.
> 
> With lights and sirens? It varies even more. Some places always give 100% right of way to emergency vehicles with lights and sirens. I don't know what the laws are in Ontario having to do with that.


Everywhere I can think of has similar and confusing/contradicting info...
Lights and sirens has 100% right of way as a rule of the road...but also 100% automatic fault when something goes wrong..


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