# Another recall



## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

I never quite understood why Tesla allowed the boombox to play silly sounds while driving. Apparently NHSTA agrees.

https://www.engadget.com/tesla-boombox-recall-model-3-s-x-y-142616539.html?src=rss
via Tech News ( http://goo.gl/W4D7n )


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

I don't understand why they're saying that "silly sounds" makes it difficult to hear the pedestrian warning noise. How does that happen? Is it too loud?

People will be distracted by the loud sounds and therefore will get run over by the car making the loud sounds???


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## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

garsh said:


> I don't understand why they're saying that "silly sounds" makes it difficult to hear the pedestrian warning noise. How does that happen? Is it too loud?
> 
> People will be distracted by the loud sounds and therefore will get run over by the car making the loud sounds???


I said "silly sounds" not NHTSA. If I were to guess, people get used to a specific sound for a specific action and hearing something different may not rise the awareness of a car backing up. I'm actually surprised that the backing up sound isn't standardized. Tesla uses this "flying saucer" sound that to me should be replaced with the "beep beep beep" sound we're used to from trucks. Everyone knows to look around when hearing that sound in proximity.


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## Klaus-rf (Mar 6, 2019)

"Tesla wasn't available for comment. The company disbanded its communications team years ago."

Did Tesla ever have a "Communications Team"?? I am not aware of any such group.

"...and Tesla responded to an investigation of its Passenger Play feature by disabling video games while in motion. "

Which has been illegal for decades. Nothing new here.


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## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

Klaus-rf said:


> Which has been illegal for decades. Nothing new here.


Tesla, the outsider, "l'enfant terrible", needs to start thinking like an insider, like an adult.


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## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

Lol, people will lose their sh*t on Electrek.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

francoisp said:


> If I were to guess, people get used to a specific sound for a specific action and hearing something different may not rise the awareness of a car backing up.


But as you said, there is no specific sound for a moving car, forward or backward. So if that's the basis of their argument, it's a very weak argument.


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## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

garsh said:


> But as you said, there is no specific sound for a moving car, forward or backward. So if that's the basis of their argument, it's a very weak argument.


Here's what I read earlier today. The rule says that a car manufacturer has to pick a sound and stick to it. The manufacturer can request a different sound for a different model but the sound must remain the same for a given model.


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

I think the NHTSA is just firing warning shots.

Tesla has been given a free pass off the leash for too long because they were a small boutique automaker and a curiosity, but now they're trying to be mainstream. So the message from the NHTSA is, if you want to play with the big guys, we're going to nail you on every single little rule into you fall into line and follow every rule just like everyone else. And if Tesla doesn't comply, the NHTSA is going to make them pay for every single violation - and since they can't fine Tesla directly (they would have to sue in court) they cost Tesla money by scaring customers away with multiple recalls. Average buyers might think twice buying a Tesla if it has more recalls than any other models on the market. They won't look closely to see that the subjects of them are ridiculous - it's the quantity, not the quality.

But I mentioned warning shots. I think they're also trying to establish a pattern that they aren't just picking on Tesla, they're enforcing the same rules they do for everyone else. So when they hit Tesla with a major recall like disabling FSD or Autopilot or both until it meets some regulatory criteria, Tesla would never win in court with a claim that the NHTSA is singling them out for their particular brand of auto drive. The NHTSA would have a long trail of evidence that they've been enforcing the rules equally, that Tesla has a long history of flaunting the rules, and that the NHTSA gave them a lot of leeway before finally cracking down.

So yes, I think the NHTSA is just warming up for a major blow to Tesla.

It's a lot like when a cop pulls you over for going a small amount over the speed limit, and then inspects the car and gives you 6 or 7 tickets for equipment violations, and then finally impounds the car for being unsafe on the road. The cop was warming up by providing probable cause with a speeding fine, then nit-picking the rules, and then finally having enough reasoning to be in the clear in the court's eyes for impounding it, leaving you with no easy defense.


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## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

I don't see anything nefarious with NHTSA's dealings with Tesla. So far, the recalls seem appropriate to me. I never like the idea of rolling stops, the heat pump failure is a serious issue, preventing gaming while driving is obvious and so is playing the boombox sounds while driving. I seem to remember also that NHTSA asked Tesla to deal with the defective MCUs in earlier models. This isn't what I would call nit-picking.


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

francoisp said:


> I don't see anything nefarious with NHTSA's dealings with Tesla. So far, the recalls seem appropriate to me. I never like the idea of rolling stops, the heat pump failure is a serious issue, preventing gaming while driving is obvious and so is playing the boombox sounds while driving. I seem to remember also that NHTSA asked Tesla to deal with the defective MCUs in earlier models. This isn't what I would call nit-picking.


I didn't say they were inappropriate, they're just not giving any leeway at all.

And actually, boombox sounds when driving are probably illegal in a lot of states and local jurisdictions. Obviously that wouldn't lead to a recall, but you could definitely get a ticket and/or end up in front of a judge of the sound was annoying or offensive enough.


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## garsh (Apr 4, 2016)

francoisp said:


> Here's what I read earlier today. The rule says that a car manufacturer has to pick a sound and stick to it. The manufacturer can request a different sound for a different model but the sound must remain the same for a given model.


Thanks @francoisp. I can't fathom any practical reason for such a rule. It's not like pedestrians are going to memorize and understand - or care - which vehicle is about to run them over. They're going to hear a sound and get out of the way.


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## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

garsh said:


> Thanks @francoisp. I can't fathom any practical reason for such a rule. It's not like pedestrians are going to memorize and understand - or care - which vehicle is about to run them over. They're going to hear a sound and get out of the way.


Everyone can have a different opinion on this and that's one reason for establishing a standard. I don't even agree with the standard: I think all cars should have the same "beep beep beep" sound like trucks. On the other hand, allowing a different sound by model can help a manufacturer defining an "identity" for each model. For example, a Porsche could have a unique sound to distinguish it from a ID3, not so much for the pedestrians but for the owners' sense of exclusivity. I know, I'm pushing it but marketing people...

Below is an instructive document from the NHTSA (short read).

https://www.transportation.gov/brie...ses-new-minimum-sound-requirements-hybrid-and


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

francoisp said:


> Tesla uses this "flying saucer" sound that to me should be replaced with the "beep beep beep" sound we're used to from trucks.


The flying saucer noise is safer than beep beep beep.


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## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

iChris93 said:


> The flying saucer noise is safer than beep beep beep.


I'm not sure how you concluded from that video that the flying saucer noise is safer. The video refers to a study showing that a white noise is better than a beep beep sound. In the end all I am saying is that all vehicles should have the same sound, beep beep, white noise or whatever.


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

francoisp said:


> I'm not sure how you concluded from that video that the flying saucer noise is safer. The video refers to a study showing that a white noise is better than a beep beep sound. In the end all I am saying is that all vehicles should have the same sound, beep beep, white noise or whatever.


The flying saucer noise is much closer to white noise than beep beep, is it not?


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## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

iChris93 said:


> The flying saucer noise is much closer to white noise than beep beep, is it not?


The white noise consisted in loud woush sounds similar to compressed air compared to the soft wou wou wou sound of the flying saucer. Not the same thing at all.


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## iChris93 (Feb 3, 2017)

francoisp said:


> The white noise consisted in loud woush sounds similar to compressed air compared to the soft wou wou wou sound of the flying saucer. Not the same thing at all.


The point is also that it's not a single tone.


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## francoisp (Sep 28, 2018)

iChris93 said:


> The point is also that it's not a single tone.


The study likely evaluated many other sounds before deciding on a loud white noise.


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## JasonF (Oct 26, 2018)

To be fair, I don't think the issue is silly sounds, but the fact that drivers who hate the sounds can insert a noiseless file into Boombox and make the car silent again, or possibly insert something really loud like a train horn or fire engine horn or ambulance siren.


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